1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 04 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 670       Contents:( An interview with AMD CEO Hector de Ruiz Re: Carly on Newsnight3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper  DIRECTORY: bug or feature? Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? RE: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature?$ Re: DS10 VMS 7.3-1 DECW$SERVER crash Re: Endianity of Itanium Re: Endianity of Itanium Good Job in Good Environment! ! Re: Good Job in Good Environment!  Help on VAX/VMS 5.5  Re: Help on VAX/VMS 5.5 B Re: INCONSTATE at SYS$FGEDRIVER+04558 with VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0100( Re: Issue with Working Set in SYS$CREPRC( Re: Issue with Working Set in SYS$CREPRC6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations" Killed my Vaxstation 3100! Boo Hoo" Re: lock manager and blocking asts" Re: lock manager and blocking asts" Re: lock manager and blocking asts Re: MVII Diag Maint TK50 Re: MVII Diag Maint TK50 Re: MVII Diag Maint TK50> Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003> Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003> Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003D Re: NY LUG meeting - Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP (update) Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping6 overlapping wildcards (was DIRECTORY: bug or feature?): Re: overlapping wildcards (was DIRECTORY: bug or feature?) Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1. Performance of atomic instructions and locking% Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance . Problem found DS10 VMS 7.3-1 DECW$SERVER crash' Re: Problem with monitor files playback H Re: Railroads in Scranton (was: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John...)& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?
 SoftPC on VMS " Re: totally OT: terminal emulators Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7  Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7  Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7  Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7  Re: Using old VRT19-HA Monitor RE: Using old VRT19-HA Monitor Webserver advice for VAX/VMS  Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS  Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS  RE: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS Re: what does this command mean  Re: what does this command mean  Re: what does this command mean  Re: what does this command mean  Re: what does this command mean  Re: what does this command mean  RE: what does this command mean  RE: what does this command mean / Re: what does this command mean (TYPE/PAGE NL:) / Re: what does this command mean (TYPE/PAGE NL:) / Re: what does this command mean (TYPE/PAGE NL:) " Winkler to be new marketing chief.& Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.& Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.& Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.2 [Change topic] Restricting user interactive access6 Re: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive access6 Re: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive access6 Re: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive access  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:01:33 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 1 Subject: An interview with AMD CEO Hector de Ruiz K Message-ID: <NxqH9.265523$MGm1.223150@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   2 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,740709,00.asp   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:32:57 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: Carly on Newsnight / Message-ID: <uuq1n5q7qv1j12@corp.supernews.com>    JF Mezei wrote:   K > Financially, I don't think that this was a wise investment. HP could have O > designed its own iPAQ lookalike for less than it cost to buy Compaq. Palm was N > able to oust PSION in a couple of years. Considering the Compaq iPAQ was farP > from erfect in tersm of hardware robustness, HP could have done better. (heck,P > perhaps it should have been Agilent that produced such a device since they areJ > the *real* HP and their calculators were renowned for their robustness).  I Umm, HP has had a Jornada product for some time, which is being obsoleted E for the iPAQ line. Several of the Jornadas are essentially similar to 
 the iPAQs.  J HP did do better, before the Jornadas, with the 100LX/200LX products. TheyA were designed by the calculator people and I still miss mine 8^).    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 22:38:03 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper/ Message-ID: <uur8m6iv9usme7@corp.supernews.com>    Carl Perkins wrote:   E > The fastest P4 is roughly 3GHz (which is getting into the microwave E > frequency range), although they might not be readily available yet.   = I just bought a consumer PC (HP Pavilion) with a 3.06 GHz P4.    --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:40:19 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <hjuouuc9dp5el7e92jhij552qgcutm9ej9@4ax.com>  A On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 17:07:14 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  (David Webb) wrote:   t >In article <3DEB6E87.4BB917C1@mediasec.de>, Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> writes:K >>> Oh, by the way, the enterprise directory is included as part of OpenVMS  >>> with no additional cost. >>H >>And Microsoft has apparently decided to re-write, from scratch, ActiveI >>Directory (its take on LDAP) because their current design has unfixable  >>security holes...  >> >>	Jan >  >References please.   F Call Microsoft and ask for a briefing on Active Directory security and$ their plans to re-implement for .NET  F If they act dumb try adding "I've heard that you no longer claim a W2K@ domain is an effective security boundary. Can you explain this?"   >David Webb  >VMS and Unix team leader  >CCSS  >Middlesex University    -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 05:33:24 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <Kvqt8e0WWSxS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>, "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes:  L > On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,J > this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do > this on VMS?  J Presuming you mean "while allowing authentication with another technique",; this will be done by setting a combination of SYSUAF flags.   I If you meant "while also disabling all other logins", the answer is still  DISUSER.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:45:25 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper8 Message-ID: <n5jruu4v0v86csu8noe1rvbg4f9urodjsb@4ax.com>  A On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 12:04:54 -0800, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>  wrote:  A >In one of the Bond books, "Live And Let Die" I think, there is a I >mechanism described for identifying who's sending a morse code signal by G >recognizing the rythms they typically use for certain letters. There's E >probably rythms in the way people type certain letter sequences that F >could be identified. I notice some in my own typing. Of course, typosI >totally mess that up so you'd have to allow for them. Given the stats on I >a large enough sample of typing you could probably identify someone from # >a relatively smaller sample later.   C I helped test just such a product for VMS about 10 years ago. Can't D recall the details but it might have been a UK DRA (Defence Research2 Agency) initiated project later sold commercially.  D The authors advised a direct connection but it would just about work' with LAT. No chance with Telnet though.    >Shane >  >-----Original Message----- . >From: jlsue [mailto:jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com]* >Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:41 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com= >Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper  >  > 3 >On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:52:06 -0500, Atlant Schmidt % ><atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:  >  >  >>0 >>Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past;4 >>it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints,5 >>iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths, 2 >>I don't know which will win, but it will be some >>sort of biometrics.  > F >Hey, they'll have to pry my fingerprints from my cold, dead, .... oh, >wait. > G >Anyway, personally I'm not a fan of biometric means of identification. E >I think they're too easy to foil.  For example, if every system uses C >something like fingerprints, then there's a higher likelihood that ? >someone with nefarious purposes in mind can extract my digital C >fingerprint info.  Once they have that, they can impersonate me in E >ways that will be very difficult to defend against.  For example, to G >login to the network, they'd just have to rig up something that can do D >the offer/response negotiations and send the stolen digital fp infoF >along.  Alternatively, they could capture me and cut off a finger (or >eye, etc.).   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 12:16:31 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <5UAaxtPvIVHJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C29AB4.4D792150@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: F > The trains aren't all gone. Until I moved home last week, I was justF > within hearing distance of the local railway line. It mostly carriedI > cargo, but there were passenger trains. Don't know if any were intended G > for commuters though. The nearest station was 3 miles down the track.  > H > There was at least one ******* driver who insisted on hitting the hornG > on the way through town in the middle of the night. I'd have loved to $ > have a percussive word with him...  G Whenever there is a grade crossing (road crosses the tracks without any H bridge), engineers are required to signal the equivalent of a Morse Code$ "Q" with their horn.  It is the law.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 14:36:17 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper. Message-ID: <3DED07B1.99D6F7A6@mindspring.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Atlant Schmidt wrote: 0 > > I guess I have a lot more faith in the speed2 > > of technological progress than most of you do. > J > Then, what we should be aiming for is DNA authentication. Give a drop ofD > blood, or a piece of hair to a machine which analises your DNA andL > authenticates you. That is pretty foolproof (but not 100%). Then again, itO > isn't hard to extract DNA from someone else and feed it to the authenticator.   9 It's precisely because of the "ease of extraction" that I 3 didn't mention DNA, or its relative, the MHC (Major  Histocompatibility Complex).  ( And we've all seen "GATTACA", right? :-)    Atlant    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 20:16:21 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperJ Message-ID: <pi8H9.255595$MGm1.34930@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  3 "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> wrote in message 2 news:6v1quukmttqmmn3dkuaoe4d8nt1il7v12o@4ax.com...4 > On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:52:06 -0500, Atlant Schmidt& > <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote: >  >  > > 1 > >Prediction: Passwords are a thing of the past; 5 > >it'll all be biometrics soon anyway. Fingerprints, 6 > >iris scans, voiceprints, signature, finger lengths,3 > >I don't know which will win, but it will be some  > >sort of biometrics. > G > Hey, they'll have to pry my fingerprints from my cold, dead, .... oh,  > wait.  > H > Anyway, personally I'm not a fan of biometric means of identification.F > I think they're too easy to foil.  For example, if every system usesD > something like fingerprints, then there's a higher likelihood that@ > someone with nefarious purposes in mind can extract my digitalD > fingerprint info.  Once they have that, they can impersonate me inF > ways that will be very difficult to defend against.  For example, toH > login to the network, they'd just have to rig up something that can doE > the offer/response negotiations and send the stolen digital fp info G > along.  Alternatively, they could capture me and cut off a finger (or 
 > eye, etc.).     L Similar for Debit cards where they have been swiped though readers that haveI been modified for the purpose by crime gangs to capture the card info and I record your PIN. Just try to get your money back from the bank's security K department after your account has been looted by someone else. The security ? of your PIN is your responsibility, or so the bank mantra goes.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 20:26:24 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper6 Message-ID: <20021203202624.21726.qmail@nym.alias.net>  9 On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  >-----Original Message----- 1 >From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] 8 >>In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,2 >>	"Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes: >>> 4 >>> One user brought up an issue with this though... >>> N >>> On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,L >>> this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do >>> this on VMS? >>G >>How about having the system generate a maximum length random password G >>and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'll  >>bet the result is the same.   C >What's wrong with disuser-ing the account? Isn't that functionally 
 >equivalent?    G I've not tried that out yet, and others have suggested it so I'll speak H with one of the users who logs in with key authentication and arrange to try it.   I However, I wondered if it was only Bill that had understood what I wanted F to achieve. His was the self-same suggestion as I made to the user who requested this.   I Replacing the hashed password in an *ix password file with "*" means that A it is impossible to enter any password that will pass validation. D Authentication, and thus access, via SSH and the authentication of a, public-private keypair is still permissible.  I I did look at the flags you can set on a user. I saw plenty of things you A can do to relax password rules, but nothing making password-based K authentication impossible. As to DISUSER... If it doesn't stop login by any . authentication method, I'd consider it broken.  F OTOH, having a fresh look at this, the flag PWD_EXPIRED looks the mostE likely candidate to have this effect - short of figuring out a way of K similarly corrupting the UAF hashed password entry as to that used in unix. I I don't know how closely Jean-Loup has been following the thread, so I'll  raise it with him.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 14:36:53 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <MsHtacQIMMB6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C29AC4.4C7AD0E0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: B > In one of the Bond books, "Live And Let Die" I think, there is aJ > mechanism described for identifying who's sending a morse code signal byH > recognizing the rythms they typically use for certain letters. There's  B The "fist" of a Morse code operator is a well known characteristicA and was catalogued by British intercept operators in World War II B who did not even know the language they were copying down from theA code.  (Of course for Enigma transmissions, they _really_ did not  know the language.)   F > probably rythms in the way people type certain letter sequences thatG > could be identified. I notice some in my own typing. Of course, typos J > totally mess that up so you'd have to allow for them. Given the stats onJ > a large enough sample of typing you could probably identify someone from$ > a relatively smaller sample later.  @ IBM has an authentication mechanism based on keystroke dynamics.F It does require a local computer connected directly to the keyboard -- ASCII is not sufficient.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 14:39:29 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper3 Message-ID: <xkuIRJMNC4VY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <20021203202624.21726.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: ; > On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  >>-----Original Message-----2 >>From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu]9 >>>In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>, 3 >>>	"Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes:  >>>>  5 >>>> One user brought up an issue with this though...  >>>>  O >>>> On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password, M >>>> this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do  >>>> this on VMS?  >>> H >>>How about having the system generate a maximum length random passwordH >>>and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'll >>>bet the result is the same. > D >>What's wrong with disuser-ing the account? Isn't that functionally >>equivalent?  > I > I've not tried that out yet, and others have suggested it so I'll speak J > with one of the users who logs in with key authentication and arrange to	 > try it.   L If an access token lets you in despite disuser, it is violating VMS Security Policy.   K > I did look at the flags you can set on a user. I saw plenty of things you C > can do to relax password rules, but nothing making password-based  > authentication impossible.  H My comment about flags was with regard to the future release that allowsH additional ACME agents to provide authentication services.  LGI callouts do not honor the new flags.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 22:03:08 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <20021203220308.4933.qmail@nym.alias.net>   : [Crossposted: comp.os.vms,vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet]  = On 3 Dec 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: B >In article <20021203202624.21726.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher, ><Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:< >> On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:  B <snip: *ix - setting hashed passwd to "*" to prevent passwd login>  E >>>What's wrong with disuser-ing the account? Isn't that functionally  >>>equivalent?   >>  J >> I've not tried that out yet, and others have suggested it so I'll speakK >> with one of the users who logs in with key authentication and arrange to 
 >> try it. > M >If an access token lets you in despite disuser, it is violating VMS Security  >Policy.  H That's what I believed. My apologies for not being clear in the originalJ post. I first saw this technique used on "naughty" students about 15 yearsK ago. :) This was prior to *ix having a shadow password file, and anyone who G could see who'd been caught. The user requesting this feature suggested C this technique to me, based on this, I assumed it was widely known.   H [I'll still pester someone to help me test out various flag combinations just to see what happens.]  L >> I did look at the flags you can set on a user. I saw plenty of things youD >> can do to relax password rules, but nothing making password-based >> authentication impossible.  > I >My comment about flags was with regard to the future release that allows I >additional ACME agents to provide authentication services.  LGI callouts  >do not honor the new flags.  H Okay, now it might not be pretty, but could the *ix technique be appliedE right now? (I.e. with v7.3 which is the latest I've got.) If so, how?      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:13:49 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper, Message-ID: <3DED2C9D.5000807@tsoft-inc.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  8 > In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,2 > 	"Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes: > 2 >>One user brought up an issue with this though... >>L >>On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,J >>this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do >>this on VMS?    & That's a workaround.  Typical of Unix.  * For VMS, it's MOD <username> /FLAG=DISUSER  2 No amount of password cracking will get past that.    G > How about having the system generate a maximum length random password G > and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'll  > bet the result is the same.     N Much better to do specifically what you want to do, not fudge some workaround.   Dave   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 13:23:39 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <askvkr$s91dg$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   / In article <3DED0361.A2B2FF31@vl.videotron.ca>, 3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > Atlant Schmidt wrote: / >> I guess I have a lot more faith in the speed 1 >> of technological progress than most of you do.  > J > Then, what we should be aiming for is DNA authentication. Give a drop ofD > blood, or a piece of hair to a machine which analises your DNA andL > authenticates you. That is pretty foolproof (but not 100%). Then again, itO > isn't hard to extract DNA from someone else and feed it to the authenticator.   I Relatively easy to come up with a few strands of someone's hair.  Usually / just pick them off their coat on the coat rack.    > O > It seems to me that memory is still the best method: you only grant access if N > you want to. If you do not wish to reveal the code, you don't and they can't > extract it from your brain.   
 Scopalamine??    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 13:26:59 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <askvr3$s91dg$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   , In article <3DED2C9D.5000807@tsoft-inc.com>,+ 	David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 9 >> In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>, 3 >> 	"Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes:  >>  3 >>>One user brought up an issue with this though...  >>> M >>>On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password, K >>>this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do  >>>this on VMS?  >  > ( > That's a workaround.  Typical of Unix. > , > For VMS, it's MOD <username> /FLAG=DISUSER  D But this person wants the user to still be able to get onthe machineB by other means.  I thought DISUSER disabled the account completelyE regardless of login method.  I know that you can't get in with XDM if  the account is DISUSERed.    > 4 > No amount of password cracking will get past that. >  > H >> How about having the system generate a maximum length random passwordH >> and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'll >> bet the result is the same. >  > P > Much better to do specifically what you want to do, not fudge some workaround. >   - But what if you lack the same functionality??    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:31:30 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A0@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   I now that's funny - most of those reality shows are more scripted and fake  than "regular" tv :-)    -----Original Message-----8 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] ) Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:19 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper     Shane Smith wrote:B > I think he's referring to a fictional spy series called "Alias".  H How do you know it is fictional ? In this era of "reality" TV , any show cold be "real".    :-) :-) ;-)     I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:29:18 -0000- From: "Steve Spires" <Steve.Spires@torex.com> < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperE Message-ID: <91947A84607D9D48B8E674A5FAB54DA63CB0B1@tahiti.tinuk.com>   H DNA identification? Isn't that what the movie Gattacca was based around?   Cheers   Steve S  > -----Original Message-----< > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]=20 > Sent: 03 December 2002 19:18 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper >=20 >=20 > Atlant Schmidt wrote: 0 > > I guess I have a lot more faith in the speed2 > > of technological progress than most of you do. >=20> > Then, what we should be aiming for is DNA authentication.=20@ > Give a drop of blood, or a piece of hair to a machine which=20< > analises your DNA and authenticates you. That is pretty=20; > foolproof (but not 100%). Then again, it isn't hard to=20 A > extract DNA from someone else and feed it to the authenticator.  >=20B > It seems to me that memory is still the best method: you only=20B > grant access if you want to. If you do not wish to reveal the=20< > code, you don't and they can't extract it from your brain. >=20 >=20   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 15:28:31 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <asl6uv$s7kik$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   / In article <3DED7440.BBC970D5@vl.videotron.ca>, 3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > Shane Smith wrote:C >> I think he's referring to a fictional spy series called "Alias".  > O > How do you know it is fictional ? In this era of "reality" TV , any show cold  > be "real". >   C Or they can all still be fiction.  Occam's Razor sipports that idea  much more than the opposite.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 15:37:04 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper5 Message-ID: <asl7f0$s7kik$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   . In article <3DED066A.21478E89@mindspring.com>,<         Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: > . > Not anymore. In many places, the locals have3 > convinced the Powers-that-Be that the inconvience 5 > of being awakened at night by the train horn trumps ; > the inconvenience of being flattened at a grade crossing,  > so no horns are sounded. > 4 > This is very common in the tonier neighborhoods of > suburban Massachusetts.   A It's an NTSB regulation.  I don't believe any local ordinance can 8 conflict with a Federal Law.  Not even in Taxechusettes.    . In article <3DED14CE.536AC3B7@mindspring.com>,<         Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: > 3 > Well, there is a small matter of flashing lights, , > ringing bells, and dropped crossing gates,  C Not all grade crossings have lights, bells or gates.  In some cases C the train has to stop and a men have to stand on either side of the D track with lights while the train passes.  In other cases, the trainC need only signal and continue rolling.  We have both all over here.       5 In article <3DEC02.21002210@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, >         karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes: > H > Depends where you are (or which law you choose to follow). Here in theB > land of the perpetually offended, there's a local ordinance thatJ > prohibits train horns during the night time hours with violators subject; > to a fine. The engineers do abide by it most of the time.  >   B As above.  I doubt that any local ordinance can contradict Federal? Regulation especially in items specifically reserved to the the - Federal Government, like Interstate Commerce.   @ Just because they do it, doesn't mean it's legal or permitted byD the headquarters of the railroad.  A local ticket (how do they issueH them?? Stand on the tracks and stop the train?? :-) would be immediatelyA overturned by in court and as such would likely prove little more " than an annoyance to the railroad.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 04 Dec 2002 01:53:51 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper- Message-ID: <87bs43gf9s.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  : hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:  F > Writing down passwords is one thing.  Letting them lie around openlyD > is quite another.  And then there is failure to enforce a security. > policy that is obviously not being followed.   Tell me about it!!  A Now, moke  sure you don't have a mouth full of coffee for this...e  B I went into a Gov dept years ago, and while being served noticed aD listing on the wall of user IDs and passwords. I pointed out to them? that it was not a very smart move. And if they had it under therE counter top it could not be seen from the public side, and they woulds= not have to turn around to read it. Water off a ducks back...t  B A few weeks later, I repwated the whole spiel to a manager, with 0D effect. Then I took a photo and sent it too them. Still no reaction.  F This dept BTW pays out 10 of millions of dollars per month. All by the computer system.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:11:21 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> < Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BCC@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  H >>> now that's funny - most of those reality shows are more scripted and fake than "regular" tv :-)<<<   F Reminds me of real life story in the news about whether the recent bin? Laden audio tape is real or fake...conspiracy theories abound..W  ; Right out of "Alias" and "The Agency" - TV series stuff ...i   :-)g   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantu Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesg Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)    -----Original Message-----= From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:William_Bochnik@acml.com]=20i Sent: December 4, 2002 8:32 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg< Subject: RE: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper    D now that's funny - most of those reality shows are more scripted and fake than "regular" tv :-)   -----Original Message-----: From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]=20) Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:19 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper     Shane Smith wrote:B > I think he's referring to a fictional spy series called "Alias".  H How do you know it is fictional ? In this era of "reality" TV , any show cold be "real".0   :-) :-) ;-)     E The information contained in this transmission may contain privilegedeD and confidential information and is intended only for the use of theD person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an@ employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the> intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution orH duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are notF the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by replyG e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Please note thatrB we do not accept account orders and/or instructions by e-mail, andE therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such orders and/ors
 instructions.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:01:40 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> < Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the RipperF Message-ID: <UxqH9.8639$Q71.2503@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagee' news:87bs43gf9s.fsf@prep.synonet.com...X< > hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes: >dH > > Writing down passwords is one thing.  Letting them lie around openlyF > > is quite another.  And then there is failure to enforce a security0 > > policy that is obviously not being followed. >m > Tell me about it!! > C > Now, moke  sure you don't have a mouth full of coffee for this...  > D > I went into a Gov dept years ago, and while being served noticed aF > listing on the wall of user IDs and passwords. I pointed out to themA > that it was not a very smart move. And if they had it under the.G > counter top it could not be seen from the public side, and they would ? > not have to turn around to read it. Water off a ducks back...v >cD > A few weeks later, I repwated the whole spiel to a manager, with 0F > effect. Then I took a photo and sent it too them. Still no reaction. >-H > This dept BTW pays out 10 of millions of dollars per month. All by the > computer system.    K Send the photo to the gov't auditor general or better yet, to the leader of E the opposition party who will then score points in the legislature bycB skewering the current governing party for permitting lax security.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:44:39 -0500r2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper. Message-ID: <3DEE22E7.62FD6E45@mindspring.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  0 > In article <3DED066A.21478E89@mindspring.com>,> >         Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> writes: > >u0 > > Not anymore. In many places, the locals have5 > > convinced the Powers-that-Be that the inconvienceb7 > > of being awakened at night by the train horn trumpss= > > the inconvenience of being flattened at a grade crossing,a > > so no horns are sounded. > >l6 > > This is very common in the tonier neighborhoods of > > suburban Massachusetts.o >tC > It's an NTSB regulation.  I don't believe any local ordinance cann: > conflict with a Federal Law.  Not even in Taxechusettes.  / Believe what you wish, but don't assume you cand1 cross the tracks just because you didn't hear thea0 train horn; you'll eventually be proven flat-out
 wrong. :-)   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:09:53 -050000 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper/ Message-ID: <3DEE44EF.B54CBEC2@vl.videotron.ca>l   Bill Gunshannon wrote:. > > For VMS, it's MOD <username> /FLAG=DISUSER > F > But this person wants the user to still be able to get onthe machine > by other means.u   OK, then one should look at:   UAF> HELP MOD /ACCESS   L You can restrict all accesses to specific time periods with /ACCESS or split it between:u  3 /BATCH /DIALUP /INTERACTIVE /LOCAL /NETWORK /REMOTEi  1 (for instance, to prevent batch access , you can:d   MOD username /NOBATCHe  $ or to have batch work only at night:  J MOD username /BATCH=(18,8)  would allow batch only between 18:00 and 08:00 (eg: at night).b   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:07:22 +0100 (MET)V9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>y# Subject: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? ; Message-ID: <01KPN1S96LBAA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>>  
 $ dir *a*,*b*    Directory DISK:[HELBIG.SCRATCH]    AB.TXT;1            AB.TXT;1   Total of 2 files.b  F Naively, I would have thought that the file would NOT be listed twice.F In this case, not a problem, but when producing a large list of files F for further processing via overlapping wildcards, this can be a pain: 9 one has to produce a list then get rid of the duplicates.c   Bug or feature?i  , By the way, BACKUP seems to do this as well.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:40:51 +0100% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>-' Subject: Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature?3. Message-ID: <aslb6s$roj$1@info.service.rug.nl>   > $ dir *a*,*b*: >=20! > Directory DISK:[HELBIG.SCRATCH]  >=20 > AB.TXT;1            AB.TXT;1 >=20 > Total of 2 files.  >=20H > Naively, I would have thought that the file would NOT be listed twice.J > In this case, not a problem, but when producing a large list of files=20J > for further processing via overlapping wildcards, this can be a pain:=20; > one has to produce a list then get rid of the duplicates.  >=20 > Bug or feature?e >=20. > By the way, BACKUP seems to do this as well.   What would you expect forY  
 $ dir *A*,*A*f   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:53:35 +0100 (MET).9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>2' Subject: Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature?i; Message-ID: <01KPN5LJQSR6A24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>J   > What would you expect forj >  > $ dir *A*,*A*4  ) Naively, just to list the file once.  :-)4   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:03:41 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>t' Subject: RE: DIRECTORY: bug or feature?tK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BA9@rlghncst964.usps.gov>p   Look at it this way:  % Isn't *a*,*b* in effect a searchlist?    In other words-t   dir *a*s dir *b*t  - Seems like perfectly reasonable output to me.w   WWWebb   > $ dir *a*,*b*t >l! > Directory DISK:[HELBIG.SCRATCH]l >f > AB.TXT;1            AB.TXT;1 >r > Total of 2 files.y >gH > Naively, I would have thought that the file would NOT be listed twice.G > In this case, not a problem, but when producing a large list of filesaG > for further processing via overlapping wildcards, this can be a pain:h; > one has to produce a list then get rid of the duplicates.u >r > Bug or feature?c >e. > By the way, BACKUP seems to do this as well.   What would you expect for   
 $ dir *A*,*A*-   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:23:29 -0500c0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>' Subject: Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature?h/ Message-ID: <3DEE481E.DCE2D144@vl.videotron.ca>a   Phillip Helbig wrote:r >  > > What would you expect fori > >l > > $ dir *A*,*A*  > + > Naively, just to list the file once.  :-)o   Isn't "DIR *A*, *B*"   the equivalent of:   DIR *A*i DIR *B*m  N except you type it in one line and there is only one image activation with the/ same qualifiers applying to both search lists ?e  	 try this: 
 CD SYS$SYSTEM 	 DIR V*,A*m  L It becomes obvious that it does a search through the directory for each itemJ separately, instead of searching the directory once and seing if each file matches any of the wildcards.e   When you look at:i  W DIR SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP*,SYS$LIBRARY:TCPIP*  you understand why it does separate searches.e   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 05:41:15 -0800r% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn)n- Subject: Re: DS10 VMS 7.3-1 DECW$SERVER crashc< Message-ID: <a98cd882.0212040541.8e2791c@posting.google.com>  C Thank you for your explanation! I don't think I can talk my manager0@ into upgading the Elsa Gloria, so I will try the larger pagefile quota.   Regards,  	 Bart Zornh  [ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<3DEC200223513842@gerg.tamu.edu>...2/ > Bart Zorn <B.Zorn@xs4all.nospam.nl> writes...cK > }A DS10 with an Elsa Gloria card, OpenVMS V7.3-1 and Motif V1.2-6. Works aK > }OK with default display settings, but when I changed the settings to 24 dJ > }bits per pixel, things started to get real slow and when I did an Exit L > }from CDE, the DECW$SERVER_0 process died. Just restarting DECwindows did ; > }not bring it back, but I had to reboot the whole system.t > } E > }It seems to me that there is no relation with the contents of the l > }[.DT...] directories. > }  > }Bart Zorn > G > 1) The Elsa Gloria card is slow (by todays standards) and VMS doesn't E > take advantage of the card's hardware acceleration much (if at all)eE > anyway. At 24 bpp this is very noticable. Nothing will ever make it-E > anything but slow at that setting (unless you can modify the drivertC > to use more hardware aceleration or something along those lines).J > A > 2) Your problem might be that you changed the bit depth but notzE > anything else. When you go to 24 bits you may also need to increaseaD > the pagefile quota for the DECwindows server (doing it even if youF > stay at 8 bits may be a good thing too - I increased mine to 160000,I > which is 60% higher than the default). This would be done by specifyingd3 > "decw$server_page_file== 160000" (or whatever) inn@ > DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM. The relevent parts of this fileC > on my system (very simialr to yours - an XP900 with Elsa Gloria -  > with a nodename of GERGX): >  > [...]n) > $ ! An example of a real list might be:  > $ !m7 > $ ! node_list = "BW75/DUTCH/DUTCH2/UK100/LK201/TCPIP"h > $ node_list = "GERGX"- > [...]- > $DO_GERGX:" > $ decw$server_page_file== 160000  > $ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280  > $ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 10248 > $ Define/Exec/System/NoLog decw$server_refresh_rate 75D > $ Define/Exec/System/NoLog decw$server_pixel_depth 8 !8, 16, or 24 > $ Exit > J > As I recall, it was consuming excessive CPU and running slow at 24 bits,H > and it had some weird color problems at 16. Thus I am back to 8, where4 > it performs adequitely and without color problems. > E > If you really want to improve your graphics, you should upgrade theyJ > card to the Oxygen VX1. Not only is the card better, but IIRC the driverJ > actually supports the card's acceleration (so it does less in software). > F > The Else Gloria card also has an excessive bus reset (I think it is)H > problem. This is bad enough that it makes my clock loose anywhere fromK > a couple to several seconds every day that I'm logged in (the reset takessJ > place at a higher interrupt priority than the clock interrupt) - you canK > tell about when I am busy doing things that cause lots of screen updates,rN > and possibly even when I log in and out within perhaps a half hour accuracy,I > by looking at the NTP log and seeing when the excessive updating of thekH > clock starts and stops. NTP adjusted the time forward 15 times just onG > Monday afternoon for a total of about 17.4 seconds over the course of,H > just under 5 hours - I was doing things involving lots of scrolling inH > the terminal window. When I am not here it rarely adjusts the time (itK > is very rare for anyone else to log into it from the display). I wouldn'teH > be surprised if this frequent reset problem is reducing performance inJ > areas other than just the clock (in fact, I'd be surprised if it wasn't,E > at least a little). If you are having problems with it keeping good-$ > time, thus is probably the reason. > 
 > --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 21:52:32 -0000j4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itanium26 Message-ID: <20021203215232.22279.qmail@nym.alias.net>  = On 3 Dec 2002, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote::  H >SEE !  The weather would not be a problem if EV8 had not been cancelledF >and Digital had not sold their Polycenter products to CA and they hadD >followed through with Jupiter so we had 4 extra bits per longword !  	 ROTFLMAO!*  C >(The resemblance of the above to remarks by any current posters to>& >comp.os.vms is entirely intentional.)  B Reports of your sense of humour bypass are greatly exaggerated. :)     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:08:18 -0500f( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>! Subject: Re: Endianity of Itaniums, Message-ID: <3DED2B52.3090800@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:    I > SEE !  The weather would not be a problem if EV8 had not been cancelledlG > and Digital had not sold their Polycenter products to CA and they haduE > followed through with Jupiter so we had 4 extra bits per longword !a     Probably true!   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 04:18:27 -0800 - From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)a& Subject: Good Job in Good Environment!< Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212040418.c286c03@posting.google.com>   All,  F H&R Block has an OVMS Admin position available in Columbus, Ohio.  See8 our website or Monster.  They are finally taking away my" responsibility as backup sysadmin.  0 It is a great environment here!  Great benefits!   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 13:33:15 GMTe( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)* Subject: Re: Good Job in Good Environment!5 Message-ID: <asl06r$s91dg$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>p  < In article <9059bf6b.0212040418.c286c03@posting.google.com>,0 	jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes: > All, > H > H&R Block has an OVMS Admin position available in Columbus, Ohio.  See: > our website or Monster.  They are finally taking away my$ > responsibility as backup sysadmin. > 2 > It is a great environment here!  Great benefits!  7 Then why are you interesed in an EU Work Permit??   :-)K   bill   -- jJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:54:40 +05308 From: "Rohit Prasad" <rohit.prasad@tatainfotech-ncc.com> Subject: Help on VAX/VMS 5.5L Message-ID: <KOEFJLDGINJGFMANNGEACEBFCBAA.rohit.prasad@tatainfotech-ncc.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C29BCE.FB5030A0k Content-Type: text/plain;c 	charset="iso-8859-1"o Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7biti  L Can somebody please let me know where I can find tutorial/manual for VAX/VMSL 5.5. I saw some documents at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ but they are all for VMS 7.x.   Please help.     Rohit Prasad& VOIP Phone: 216-257-7090 (Extn 414108)        + ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C29BCE.FB5030A0f" Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; 	name="winmail.dat"a! Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64   Content-Disposition: attachment; 	filename="winmail.dat".  L eJ8+IigOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyL b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHDAAEABMANgAAAAMANQEBL A5AGAHwFAAAiAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAABL AAAAFAAAAEhlbHAgb24gVkFYL1ZNUyA1LjUAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcKboOFjWU0HhBraTe2pz6FpL gIEVXwAAAgEdDAEAAAAnAAAAU01UUDpST0hJVC5QUkFTQURAVEFUQUlORk9URUNILU5DQy5DT00AL AAsAAQ4AAAAAQAAGDgCApsmgm8IBAgEKDgEAAAAYAAAAAAAAAI1GaG7+5K5FmzYA0DRjKKTCgAAAL CwAfDgEAAAACAQkQAQAAAHEBAABtAQAA3AEAAExaRnUtYhX2AwAKAHJjcGcxMjUWMgD4C2BuDhAwL MzNPAfcCpAPjAgBjaArAc/BldDAgBxMCgwBQBFWvEMkIVQeyAoB9CoF2CJCkd2sLgGQ0DGBjAFCvL CwMLtRNAA5FzA3BlBuBIZHkgC1BlYREgIIcW8AVAB4Aga25vB+CMd2gEkBcwSSBjA5HCZhSxIHR1L dAWwBzE6LwOBdQdAGMAFsVZByFgvVgXhNS4a4BhhDHNhB+AWUiBkb2MudQeAAjAEIGEFQjEggmgCL QHA6Ly93HWAILm9wCfB2bXMuVQWgbQqwcR4SLxvhL/ECsSAgYhkwGRAYIBbAHwrAFzAHQBoFBeE3L LnhuLgqiCoQKgFAW9BggbL5wISshOAswDDAL4TIH8aRoaQVAUHIXEGELMaEhUlZPSVAk8GgCIIBlL OiAyMTYtDjAgNy03MDkRUChFJHh0A6A0MSewMDh+KQogC8Uizwr1IVIUIQABKrAAAAALAAGACCAGL AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAL AwAHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAAH1uAQAeAAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUL hQAAAQAAAAQAAAA5LjAACwANgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAgoUAAAEAAAALADqACCAGAAAAL AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAPIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwA9L gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAALAF2ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAGhQAAL AAAAAAMAXoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAjUZobv7krkWbL NgDQNGMopAIB+g8BAAAAEAAAAI1GaG7+5K5FmzYA0DRjKKQCAfsPAQAAAJgAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlL EBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABDOlxEb2N1bWVuL dHMgYW5kIFNldHRpbmdzXFJvaGl0UFxMb2NhbCBTZXR0aW5nc1xBcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBEYXRhXE1pL Y3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxvb2sucHN0AAMA/g8FAAAAAwANNP03AAACAX8AAQAAAEEAAAA8L S09FRkpMREdJTkpHRk1BTk5HRUFDRUJGQ0JBQS5yb2hpdC5wcmFzYWRAdGF0YWluZm90ZWNoLW5jL Yy5jb20+AAAAAAMABhAUEPIZAwAHEMAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAQ0FOL U09NRUJPRFlQTEVBU0VMRVRNRUtOT1dXSEVSRUlDQU5GSU5EVFVUT1JJQUwvTUFOVUFMRk9SVkFY@ L1ZNUzU1SVNBV1NPTUVET0NVTUVOVFNBVEhUVFA6Ly9XV1dPUEVOVgAAAAAYMA==  - ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C29BCE.FB5030A0--p   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 15:31:13 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>  Subject: Re: Help on VAX/VMS 5.55 Message-ID: <asl4fq$s8u80$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>u  E "Rohit Prasad" <rohit.prasad@tatainfotech-ncc.com> schreef in berichtiF news:KOEFJLDGINJGFMANNGEACEBFCBAA.rohit.prasad@tatainfotech-ncc.com...F > Can somebody please let me know where I can find tutorial/manual for VAX/VMSvJ > 5.5. I saw some documents at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ but they are  > all for VMS 7.x. >n > Please help. >aK The on-line HELP of VMS is quite good. I find it a lot more accessible than K the man pages found on unix systems. But.. I've been using VMS for 20 yearsy" and my opinion is somewhat biased.K A lot of what you see in the V7 doc kit will also work on V5.5. Things have H changed, e.g. the DCL pipe command was not there in V5.5, but not to the0 extent that a V7 manual is absolutely worthless.   Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 10:46:30 -0800a+ From: seanobanion@attbi.com (Sean O'Banion)eK Subject: Re: INCONSTATE at SYS$FGEDRIVER+04558 with VMS731_FIBRE_SCSI-V0100h= Message-ID: <f883d5a4.0212041046.616c2010@posting.google.com>   > We had a INCONSTATE crash at SYS$FGEDRIVER+10B0C that has beenB escalated to Engineering, so it sounds like there is more than one problem in that driver.      Sean    y "Hal Kuff" <Kuff@Tessco.Com> wrote in message news:<4CA4C7004F08C1AB.DC35DD8FC64811B8.47D56A20803C1261@lp.airnews.net>... N > We took a DS10 system running 7.2-2 and upgraded to 7.3-1 via the boot CD...N > We applied no patches.  When the startup issued the IO Autoconfigure All (orM > equiv) the system crashed as above.  We put all of the 7.3-1 patches in andhJ > got the same result.  When we took the same system and did a clean 7.3-1I > install everything was fine with or without the patches, so we know ther > hardware and SAN are OK. > N > Support has the call now for a week or so, they suggested one or two things:I >         * Check the system for *.exe in the sys$specificn path that thee > install might have overlookeda> >         * Make sure that Sys$Library:Sys$Icbm.exe is present > 6 > No word yet, wondering if anyone else has seen this?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:13:21 +0100% From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com>t1 Subject: Re: Issue with Working Set in SYS$CREPRCM1 Message-ID: <AAkH9.8$GU2.475272@news.cpqcorp.net>o   Have you checked WSMAX ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:15:48 +0100% From: "Safir" <axica_nopub@yahoo.com>m1 Subject: Re: Issue with Working Set in SYS$CREPRC 1 Message-ID: <SCkH9.9$NU2.480294@news.cpqcorp.net>   * Verify also the default and minimum values   $ mc sysgenf > show /PQLo   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 07:13:30 -0600-+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations 3 Message-ID: <Ap$dfw6sryAR@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  a In article <3DEDB154.507D7D0@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:eK > There was a news story tonight about some newyork banks not having propergN > auditing of emails, stating that companies are supposed to keep emails for 3 > years and not delete them. >   . 	Today's Wall Street has that story.  Page C5.  L > How would companies implement such auditing ? Would they capture copies ofN > emails at the server level before they are delivered to the user's mailbox ?A > Or would they mandate that users not be able to delete emails ?t  D 	Server level before delivered to user's mailbox?  Most (either than? 	ISP) support pop like clients.  You pull it down to the PC butk? 	it still resides on the server.  You move it to trash, it getsy? 	purged in 2-3 days (threshold tunable) and is on a backup tapev
 	somewhere.  o  D 	There is a way to do immediate deletes (purges) so it never hits a G 	backup tape.  If you were that "worried" about information, you would e= 	probably not use email to exchange it (i.e. over the phone).i   > M > Wouldn't such policies push some employees to get some yahoo mailboxes that M > are outside of their employer to send stock advise etc without their emails  > beiong audited ?    @ 	I suppose that is a possibility.  However, we are talking aboutC 	SEC rules and I suspect that if a broker was caught sending advice1G 	via offsite mail (on company business) the SEC wouldn't be too pleasedDG 	as it would look like an attempt to circumvent their rules.  I suppose > 	there is a rule against that somewhere, but of course I don't 	know that as a fact.r   				Robn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:55:33 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsiJ Message-ID: <FHoH9.264712$MGm1.21957@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message,( news:3DEDB154.507D7D0@vl.videotron.ca...K > There was a news story tonight about some newyork banks not having properaL > auditing of emails, stating that companies are supposed to keep emails for 3d > years and not delete them. >iL > How would companies implement such auditing ? Would they capture copies ofL > emails at the server level before they are delivered to the user's mailbox ?eA > Or would they mandate that users not be able to delete emails ?  >c  L IMAP protocol keeps the mail on the server, unlike POP3 which sends the mail from the server to the client.  L Most e-mail client programs have a selectable option to delete mail from theI server. In a corporate environment, an option like this would probably beaL turned off by an administrator and users would not be able to change this on their client software.  H Mail, even if it is retained on the server when read, usually has a flagI that is flipped to indicate that it has been read. For a POP3 client, the:L user can read and delete the local copy on his workstation but it will stillL be retained at the server, but as the flag is flipped, that message will not be resent to the client .k  J With IMAP, the user would typically have a bit more work to do in managingJ the remote mail, ie. selecting a 'view from' date, or moving messages into4 archive folders as messages are no longer 'current'.    H > Wouldn't such policies push some employees to get some yahoo mailboxes thatF > are outside of their employer to send stock advise etc without their emails > beiong audited ?  K Maybe, but not from work addresses. That would probably be a firing offenseoA under individual company policies. And if the broker/etc... had a-L home/personal email account that he was sending advice out via, be sure thatK the recipient would be archiving it so he could sue the broker and his firme if the advice turned sour.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:59:58 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>a? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsmO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A1@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>e  > >>JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message( news:3DEDB154.507D7D0@vl.videotron.ca...I >> Wouldn't such policies push some employees to get some yahoo mailboxes  thatG >> are outside of their employer to send stock advise etc without theiri emails >> beiong audited ?"  D not if they either block access to such sites, or track activity via firewall logs.     -----Original Message-----) From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com] s* Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:56 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComN? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationso      = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageM( news:3DEDB154.507D7D0@vl.videotron.ca...E > There was a news story tonight about some newyork banks not having  I > proper auditing of emails, stating that companies are supposed to keep   > emails for 3o > years and not delete them. >rC > How would companies implement such auditing ? Would they capture dH > copies of emails at the server level before they are delivered to the  > user's mailbox ?dA > Or would they mandate that users not be able to delete emails ?  >h  L IMAP protocol keeps the mail on the server, unlike POP3 which sends the mail from the server to the client.  L Most e-mail client programs have a selectable option to delete mail from theI server. In a corporate environment, an option like this would probably be.L turned off by an administrator and users would not be able to change this on their client software.  H Mail, even if it is retained on the server when read, usually has a flagI that is flipped to indicate that it has been read. For a POP3 client, theML user can read and delete the local copy on his workstation but it will stillL be retained at the server, but as the flag is flipped, that message will not be resent to the client .a  J With IMAP, the user would typically have a bit more work to do in managingJ the remote mail, ie. selecting a 'view from' date, or moving messages into4 archive folders as messages are no longer 'current'.    H > Wouldn't such policies push some employees to get some yahoo mailboxes thatF > are outside of their employer to send stock advise etc without their emails > beiong audited ?  K Maybe, but not from work addresses. That would probably be a firing offense A under individual company policies. And if the broker/etc... had alL home/personal email account that he was sending advice out via, be sure thatK the recipient would be archiving it so he could sue the broker and his firmk if the advice turned sour.      I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andcJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication isaJ strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 08:17:20 -0600l+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young),? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationst3 Message-ID: <gGHiVG4O4q3S@eisner.encompasserve.org>s   In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A1@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:a? >>>JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagec* > news:3DEDB154.507D7D0@vl.videotron.ca...J >>> Wouldn't such policies push some employees to get some yahoo mailboxes > thatH >>> are outside of their employer to send stock advise etc without their > emails >>> beiong audited ?"  > F > not if they either block access to such sites, or track activity via > firewall logs. >   @ 	Not really.  Many ISPs provide secure SMTP/POP access.  All the, 	firewall sees is encrypted bytes flying by.   				Robt   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:22:21 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>t? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations O Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   # then there is blocking site access.l   -----Original Message-----C From: young_r@encompasserve.org [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org] a* Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:17 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations     
 In articleD <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A1@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>,7 "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes: ? >>>JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message0* > news:3DEDB154.507D7D0@vl.videotron.ca...A >>> Wouldn't such policies push some employees to get some yahoo e
 >>> mailboxes4 > thatH >>> are outside of their employer to send stock advise etc without their > emails >>> beiong audited ?"r > G > not if they either block access to such sites, or track activity via e > firewall logs. >   @ 	Not really.  Many ISPs provide secure SMTP/POP access.  All the, 	firewall sees is encrypted bytes flying by.   				Robm    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or.J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 08:50:01 -0600t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsh3 Message-ID: <nTvx9lDj3xRO@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:C >> nC >> 	Not really.  Many ISPs provide secure SMTP/POP access.  All the4/ >> 	firewall sees is encrypted bytes flying by.r > % > then there is blocking site access.o >   ; 	But think about the management involved.  And if you have <D 	company-wide Internet access, are you suggesting most Fortune 500s E 	have access blocked to yahoo.com and aol.com?  I'm sure there are a WE 	percentage that do, but I'd gander it is a small minority that have g: 	Internet access and access is blocked to Yahoo, AOL, etc.   				Rob)   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 08:57:00 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationse3 Message-ID: <6ErzZ2rj4Au+@eisner.encompasserve.org>B   In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:p% > then there is blocking site access.e >   ? 	Something else to consider from a management standpoint.  Many-> 	corporations are doing VPN access from ISPs.  So what you are< 	suggesting is blocking outbound access to ISPs but allowingD 	inbound.  I'm not suggesting it is impossible.  But now stand back G 	and look at the firewall ruleset for the numerous ISPs.  It gets very  E 	ugly, very quickly.  And of course you have to block all outbound toaD 	ISPs as secure POP clients allow you to select ports ;-), make sure/ 	you don't block outbound VPN ports, etc. etc. n   				Roby   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:56:45 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>v? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsn9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>r  9 No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaningt! for gander other than male goose?l   >-----Original Message-----h3 >From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]i+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:50 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations >y >m >In article D ><2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>: >, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes: >>> D >>> 	Not really.  Many ISPs provide secure SMTP/POP access.  All the0 >>> 	firewall sees is encrypted bytes flying by. >> s& >> then there is blocking site access. >> n >c< >	But think about the management involved.  And if you have E >	company-wide Internet access, are you suggesting most Fortune 500s oF >	have access blocked to yahoo.com and aol.com?  I'm sure there are a F >	percentage that do, but I'd gander it is a small minority that have ; >	Internet access and access is blocked to Yahoo, AOL, etc.o >y >				Rob >o >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.t; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eB >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >  ---d& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:59:42 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>k? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationso9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICENHGCAA.tom@kednos.com>i   >-----Original Message----- 3 >From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]s+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:57 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations >r >w >In articlesD ><2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>: >, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:& >> then there is blocking site access. >> >r@ >	Something else to consider from a management standpoint.  Many? >	corporations are doing VPN access from ISPs.  So what you areE= >	suggesting is blocking outbound access to ISPs but allowingnD >	inbound.  I'm not suggesting it is impossible.  But now stand back= >	and look at the firewall ruleset for the numerous ISPs.  ItI
 >gets veryF >	ugly, very quickly.  And of course you have to block all outbound toE >	ISPs as secure POP clients allow you to select ports ;-), make suren/ >	you don't block outbound VPN ports, etc. etc.g  H Most companies would probably have their own router, and I believe these thingsK are easily configured using access-lists in the router, at least with ciscoo routers.   >  >				Rob >c >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.n; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >n ---'& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002v   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 09:41:04 -0600i+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsm3 Message-ID: <MsoOd7XfaNES@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:H; > No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaning # > for gander other than male goose?t >   9         None taken.  Here's the answer, under "Informal."i  + http://www.bartleby.com/62/57/G0665700.htmlu  8    Roget's II: The New Thesaurus, Third Edition.  1995.       gander     N NOUN: 1. Informal. One deficient in judgment and good sense: ass, fool, idiot,F imbecile, jackass, mooncalf, moron, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, simple,E simpleton, softhead, tomfool. Informal : dope, goose. Slang : cretin,eI ding-dong, dip, goof, jerk, nerd, schmo, schmuck, turkey. See ABILITY. 2.EF Informal. A quick look: blush, glance, glimpse, peek, peep. See SEE.    #                                 RobT   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 09:43:02 -0600f+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationst3 Message-ID: <uduo4PePAPWY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <nTvx9lDj3xRO@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:y > In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:@ >>> D >>> 	Not really.  Many ISPs provide secure SMTP/POP access.  All the0 >>> 	firewall sees is encrypted bytes flying by. >> e& >> then there is blocking site access. >> 1 > = > 	But think about the management involved.  And if you have IF > 	company-wide Internet access, are you suggesting most Fortune 500s G > 	have access blocked to yahoo.com and aol.com?  I'm sure there are a uG > 	percentage that do, but I'd gander it is a small minority that have  < > 	Internet access and access is blocked to Yahoo, AOL, etc. >   @ 	Of course gander is incorrect, make that wager.  Reaching magic$ 	age where brain starts crossfiring.   				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:50:35 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>@? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsu9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGENKGCAA.tom@kednos.com>e  G I guess that makes me a gander:-)  Although you did use it as a verb:-)s   >-----Original Message----- 3 >From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org]2+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 7:41 AMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@ >Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations >0 >7@ >In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom ! >Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:h< >> No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaning$ >> for gander other than male goose? >> a >b: >        None taken.  Here's the answer, under "Informal." > , >http://www.bartleby.com/62/57/G0665700.html >a9 >   Roget's II: The New Thesaurus, Third Edition.  1995. e >  c >  >gander  >   C >NOUN: 1. Informal. One deficient in judgment and good sense: ass, e
 >fool, idiot,aG >imbecile, jackass, mooncalf, moron, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, simple, F >simpleton, softhead, tomfool. Informal : dope, goose. Slang : cretin,J >ding-dong, dip, goof, jerk, nerd, schmo, schmuck, turkey. See ABILITY. 2.G >Informal. A quick look: blush, glance, glimpse, peek, peep. See SEE.  p >M$ >                                Rob >g >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.L; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).-B >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >m ---l& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002i   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 10:08:44 -0600.+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsd3 Message-ID: <BQnu6$qZd$3+@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICENHGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:v >  >  >>-----Original Message-----4 >>From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org], >>Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:57 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComsA >>Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations* >> >> >>In articleE >><2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4A2@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com> ; >>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:n' >>> then there is blocking site access.E >>>s >>A >>	Something else to consider from a management standpoint.  Manyn@ >>	corporations are doing VPN access from ISPs.  So what you are> >>	suggesting is blocking outbound access to ISPs but allowingE >>	inbound.  I'm not suggesting it is impossible.  But now stand back > >>	and look at the firewall ruleset for the numerous ISPs.  It >>gets veryrG >>	ugly, very quickly.  And of course you have to block all outbound toMF >>	ISPs as secure POP clients allow you to select ports ;-), make sure0 >>	you don't block outbound VPN ports, etc. etc. > J > Most companies would probably have their own router, and I believe these > thingsM > are easily configured using access-lists in the router, at least with ciscou
 > routers. >   E 	Okay, I see how it is done.  Drop the VPN stuff as I just rememberedi# 	how that works and isn't an issue.   D 	I guess the only issue then is blocking outbound access to ISPs andC 	or email providers and I suppose that is a big management headaches? 	if  corporate edict.  Because you are blocking whole ranges ofsC 	ports or the entire ISP or mail providers... i.e. Yahoo, Hotmail, t 	Earthlink, etc.  ! 	Maybe I'm making too much of it.u   				Robd   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 11:08:16 -0600b From: briggs@encompasserve.org? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations 3 Message-ID: <iXEc+Mze+R5k@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICENHGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:m >  >  >>-----Original Message-----4 >>From: Rob Young [mailto:young_r@encompasserve.org], >>Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:57 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com_A >>Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsm  [I think it is Rob talking here]A >>	Something else to consider from a management standpoint.  Manya@ >>	corporations are doing VPN access from ISPs.  So what you are> >>	suggesting is blocking outbound access to ISPs but allowingE >>	inbound.  I'm not suggesting it is impossible.  But now stand back_> >>	and look at the firewall ruleset for the numerous ISPs.  It >>gets verygG >>	ugly, very quickly.  And of course you have to block all outbound toxF >>	ISPs as secure POP clients allow you to select ports ;-), make sure0 >>	you don't block outbound VPN ports, etc. etc. > J > Most companies would probably have their own router, and I believe these > thingsM > are easily configured using access-lists in the router, at least with ciscoc
 > routers.  H Sure.  It's easy to create an access list.  But what rules are you goingH to put in that access list?  The art form is in deciding what to permit,= what to restrict and figuring out how to tell the difference.i  F Rob points out that telling the difference between http and secure POPD running on port 80 is difficult to do with a router access list.  SoA you are forced to block essentially all forms of outbound access.   F If you do that on an ISP by ISP basis, you are looking at the rulebase= from hell.  Accordingly, you are driven to a simple, but veryy restrictive rule set such as:h  % ip access-list extended input-filter o permit tcp any any established0 permit udp any host your-vpn-concentrator eq IKE2 permit udp any host your-vpn-concentrator eq 10000Q permit tcp any host your-vpn-concentrator eq 10000 (Obviously, I use Cisco's VPN) ) permit esp any host your-vpn-concentratoro) permit ahp any host your-vpn-concentratorw9 permit udp host isp-dns-server eq 53 host your-dns-server ; permit tcp host isp-smtp-server host your-smtp-server eq 25.9 permit udp host isp-dns-server host your-dns-server eq 53 9 permit tcp host isp-dns-server host your-dns-server eq 53c deny ip any anye  % ip access-list extended output-filtert permit tcp any any established0 permit udp host your-vpn-concentrator eq IKE any2 permit udp host your-vpn-concentrator eq 10000 any) permit esp host your-vpn-concentrator anyj; permit tcp host your-smtp-server host isp-smtp-server eq 25c: permit udp host your-dns-server host isp-smtp-server eq 539 permit udp host your-dns-server eq 53 host isp-dns-serverp9 permit tcp host your-dns-server host isp-dns-server eq 53  deny ip any anyi  D If your web proxy server has some way of blocking sites that provide; http access to e-mail (e.g. hotmail) then you could tack ons  ( permit tcp host your-web-proxy any eq 80* permit tcp host your-web-proxy any gt 1023    G On a philosophical note, I sould suggest that we are all well and truly  screwed.  @ On the one hand, we are faced with Internet applications and web> sites that actively try to circumvent firewall restrictions.    C   Firewall blocks Instant Messaging?  Just autoconfigure the cliente=   to use the company web proxy and tunnel through using http.1  C On the other hand we are faced with users who don't have a freakingE clue.y  4   Want to spam someone?  Just tell the user to visit?   www.friendgreetings.com, announce up front that you want themb=   to put spamware on their desktop and guide them through theo   easy installation process.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:42:31 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>-? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulationsn( Message-ID: <3DEE4C97.5030401@rdrop.com>   Rob Young wrote:@ > Something else to consider from a management standpoint.  Many? > corporations are doing VPN access from ISPs.  So what you aree= > suggesting is blocking outbound access to ISPs but allowingaE > inbound.  I'm not suggesting it is impossible.  But now stand back  H > and look at the firewall ruleset for the numerous ISPs.  It gets very  > ugly, very quickly.   D No, it doesn't.  It only gets ugly when management gets in the way,  forcing special rules.  ? 1) Block everything (on any intelligently designed implemented 0 firewall, this is the default)..  1 2) Allow port 25 to/from your mail servers, ONLY.)  @ 3) Allow http[s] traffic outbound from your proxy servers, ONLY.  E 4) There are services for providing lists of porn or other "non work aF environment friendly" sites.  A good firewall/proxy will allow you to . add your own to this list, by name or address.  E Yes, you can do access lists etc. on your router.  I prefer to use a h? device that was q/a tested in regards to security, rather than  F throughput. Hopefully, Cisco has improved quite a bit, but there used D to be some pretty horrendous security holes in their implementation.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 10:51:03 -0800,4 From: dot@dot-dash-dot-dot-dash.com (Rusel Broadway)+ Subject: Killed my Vaxstation 3100! Boo Hoo = Message-ID: <58eb664d.0212041051.38db1418@posting.google.com>.  C Hi, I need some help as a newbee here! (Obvious really!) I have tworF MV3100's, one of which is a Vaxstation 3100 (With a huge 21" monitor).F I tried to run cluster_config and completed this only to learn that itB requires further licenses. I've backed the ordinary 3100 back withB advice I've read here but the VAXStation I'm having problems with!> I've done the boot/r5:1 and set uafalternate to 1 and then setD window_system to 0 but the system still tries to validate the systemF user password (I suspect this is part of the cluster security but thisF is only a guess!). The machine is running OpenVMS 7.2. Anyone have any ideas? Many thanks! Rusel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 15:02:21 -0500A& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>+ Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking astsA8 Message-ID: <ab3quus90kc089s05darqc6qpcrjip1fqk@4ax.com>  3 Change your algorithm something like the following:N    A On 2 Dec 2002 18:50:54 -0800, usenet_cpp@lehrerfamily.com (JoshuaA Lehrer) wrote:   >T% >A second process then does the same:Q >A >Getting exclusive lockA Do processing. Release the lock.C >A >w0 >And the AST is delievered to the first process: >j >blocking ast called >awake Release the lock.  x Re-queue the locko >going in to hibernation >w >R& >A *third* process then does the same: >+ >Getting exclusive lock1 Do processing. Release the lock.S   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 06:41:29 -0800Q1 From: usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshua Lehrer) + Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking astsQ= Message-ID: <477e0934.0212040641.4fc7a389@posting.google.com>0  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DED9845.5F57DC73@vl.videotron.ca>...A > Joshua Lehrer wrote:A > > My question still stands, why does my process return from theUH > > hibernation if my ast does not call sys$wake(0,0), and is completely
 > > empty? >  > K > So, in your code, if it is possible for the $wake to be issued before theA) > $hiber, it would explain the behaviour.A >     D but there is no $wake anywhere in my code.  If you look back, you'llD see.  All I do is register a blocking ast, then $hiber.  The body of; the ast is completely empty, and yet I still awake from theAC hibernation.  Why?  The only explanation I can think of is that theG3 lock manager is issuing a spurious $wake somewhere.3  
 joshua lehrerr factset research systems   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:52:11 GMT2? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)M+ Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking astsO0 Message-ID: <3dee1636.27501234@news.demon.co.uk>  = The reality of $HIBER is that you have to assume that it willUF spuriously wake.  I don't know what is causing it to in this case, butC you can be reasonably certain that if you are using $HIBER you will34 run into cases where it wakes up and it "shouldn't".  C Because of this, you should always wrap $HIBER in a check to see ifd7 you should be awake, or if you should go back to sleep.c   Jim.    A On 4 Dec 2002 06:41:29 -0800, usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com (Joshuai Lehrer) wrote:  h >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DED9845.5F57DC73@vl.videotron.ca>... >> Joshua Lehrer wrote:mB >> > My question still stands, why does my process return from theI >> > hibernation if my ast does not call sys$wake(0,0), and is completelys >> > empty?h >>   >>  L >> So, in your code, if it is possible for the $wake to be issued before the* >> $hiber, it would explain the behaviour. >> e >  > E >but there is no $wake anywhere in my code.  If you look back, you'llmE >see.  All I do is register a blocking ast, then $hiber.  The body ofa< >the ast is completely empty, and yet I still awake from theD >hibernation.  Why?  The only explanation I can think of is that the4 >lock manager is issuing a spurious $wake somewhere. >5 >joshua lehrer >factset research systemsD   Jim Johnson2 Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)S   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:42:38 +0100 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de>! Subject: Re: MVII Diag Maint TK50T, Message-ID: <ap7lsa.pi3.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Christoph Gartmann wrote:0 >  > Hello, > O > my TZ30 crashed with a TK50 in it. I got the drive replaced but I had to openoO > the drive in order to save my cartridge. Now I have several hundred meters ofAM > uncoiled tape. Bevor I start to save this mess: is there anybody willing toiI > borrow me the MicroVAXII Diagnostic Maintenance TK50 so that I can maken/ > a copy? Digital's part number is AQ-GM5AH-DN.h > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanna  > I can offer MVII DIAG CUST TK50 (AQ-GL5AN-DN) from about 1987.  3 If this would help, I could even try to copy it ...   	 Gre :-)r Albrecht Schloerp   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 17:15:31 GMT 3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ! Subject: Re: MVII Diag Maint TK50o0 Message-ID: <asld7j$pjm$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  [ In article <ap7lsa.pi3.ln@news.hus-soft.de>, Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> writes:: >Christoph Gartmann wrote: >> S	 >> Hello,e >> -P >> my TZ30 crashed with a TK50 in it. I got the drive replaced but I had to openP >> the drive in order to save my cartridge. Now I have several hundred meters ofN >> uncoiled tape. Bevor I start to save this mess: is there anybody willing toJ >> borrow me the MicroVAXII Diagnostic Maintenance TK50 so that I can make0 >> a copy? Digital's part number is AQ-GM5AH-DN. >> - >> Regards,- >>    Christoph Gartmann >0? >I can offer MVII DIAG CUST TK50 (AQ-GL5AN-DN) from about 1987.j >:4 >If this would help, I could even try to copy it ...  N The latter one I have already. And for the first one, I got the possibility toO download a kit to produce a new tape. So thank you to all who responded. And ofh& course I don't know anybody of you ;-)   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:31:21 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>! Subject: Re: MVII Diag Maint TK503/ Message-ID: <3DEE49F5.82DB8892@vl.videotron.ca>v   Christoph Gartmann wrote: P > The latter one I have already. And for the first one, I got the possibility toQ > download a kit to produce a new tape. So thank you to all who responded. And ofa( > course I don't know anybody of you ;-)  M Would Digital/HP object to the all mighty Microvax II diagnostics tape be put  on the freeware tape?   L Seems to me that a whole bunch of people have inherited these beasts withoutN the diag tape, and it would ne nice to be able to get it when needed. It isn'tH as if the VMS engineers (actually, it seesm to be written in VAXELN) areL continuing development of that software or that making it publicly available would cut revenu potential....  L It is 18 files, and when zipped, it comes to about 669 blocks. (ok, 19 filesM because you need one file to describe the order in which the files need to be, written to tape).3  K Perhaps some instruction on how to make a system root on a disk to make the G diagnostics bootable from disk (quick) instead of TK50 (takes forever).0   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 12:18:04 -0600d- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)DG Subject: Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003r3 Message-ID: <6Xrse0doxkKy@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  u In article <e8a0f3ac.0212030833.36821826@posting.google.com>, oliver.becker@alba-software.com (Oliver becker) writes: C > Alba Software have some new exciting OpenVMS contract developmentlG > positions starting Q1 2003, predominantly based in continental Europe + > - Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich.l  + You just said that, less than 10 posts ago.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 04:40:13 -0800n- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)aG Subject: Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003n= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212040440.7c3b20d2@posting.google.com>r  z oliver.becker@alba-software.com (Oliver becker) wrote in message news:<e8a0f3ac.0212030813.4e37d796@posting.google.com>...C > Alba Software have some new exciting OpenVMS contract developmentnG > positions starting Q1 2003, predominantly based in continental Europen+ > - Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich.e > A > We are interested in contractors with the the following skills;r > % > Analyst Programmers/Developers withe > 	 > OpenVMSl > SQLa > C /C++ > DCL  > Oracle Rdb - optionale > D > As these are contract positions we can only submit candidates with > current EU work permits. > ' > For more information, please contact;s >  > Oliver Beckert > Alba Softwarem! > oliver.becker@alba-software.come > (UK) +44 (0)20 7643 2211  - So what does it take to get a EU work permit??   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:46:27 +0100eE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>-G Subject: Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003 + Message-ID: <3DEE3163.B65882BF@mediasec.de>h  / > So what does it take to get a EU work permit?   F You're either an EU citizen (then you have one by definition), or yourE prospective employer has to argue that he can find nobody else who isuG qualified for the particular job in all of the EU. Pretty much like theD  corresponding US visa, really...   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 05:40:28 -0800t+ From: spamdump@mccready.com (Gary McCready)DM Subject: Re: NY LUG meeting - Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP (update) = Message-ID: <ffd79a6c.0212040540.3b45e3be@posting.google.com>d  g "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<as0k7l$i4v$1@web1.cup.hp.com>...i$ > NY Metro Local Users Group meetingA Please join us for the next NY Metro Local Users Group meeting.  n3 Note: you must RSVP in advance for entrance to the  
 building.   ) "Disaster Tolerant Technologies from HP" m Thursday, Dec. 12th, 2002.
 4:30-7 PM  HP Offices e. 2 Penn Plaza 8th Floor ( 7th Ave and 32nd St)   9 4:30 - 5:00     Check in and old-style DECUS Networking.    @ 5:00 - 5:10     Lynne Hummel, High Performance System Sales,HP:  Welcome and announcementsg  > 5:10 - 5:15     Gary McCready: LUG and Encompass Business and  Announcements   9 5:15  5:45	Zahid Kazi, Commerzbank AG: Case study of a  l disaster recovery. o  C 5:45 - 7:00     Keith Parris "Disaster-Tolerant Cluster Technology   and Implementation"  r  E This presentation will cover DT cluster technology across the entire P? range of HP platforms, including HP-UX, Linux, Windows, and of hE course, OpenVMS, and describing both host-based and controller-based a replication schemes.  E Keith Parris works for Hewlett-Packard as a System/Software Engineer iB in the HP Services -- Systems Engineering group, doing consulting @ and fly-and-fix work for critical customer sites.  His areas of A specialty are in using clusters of computers (particularly those lD running the VMS operating system) in high-availability and disaster-B tolerant configurations, in troubleshooting difficult and hard-to-B solve problems, in scaling clusters to meet the incredible growth = rates of businesses in areas such as e-Commerce and cellular hC telecommunications, in performance analysis, and in I/O issues and gA storage configurations, including SANs.  You may view his recent a6 presentations at http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/    8 To RSVP: send email to Lynne.Hummel@hp.com, Subject LUG = You will be met by a HP employee at the security desk at the oB entrance to the building (now at the 7th Avenue side). Should you C arrive late, please call the HP reception desk at 212-856-2000 for fE an escort. Please RSVP and plan to arrive before 5:15 pm as there is   limited seating available. n  $ HP will provide light refreshments.   C For further information on the group you may contact Gary McCready k at NYMLUG@McCready.com a  4 Feel free to forward this message to others who may C have an interest in attending - you do not have to be an Encompass n member to attend.   < If you wish to receive emails announcing our events, please A join our mailing list at  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYMLUG/>e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:03:22 -0500s( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com># Subject: Re: OT: Hamburger Flipping , Message-ID: <3DED2A2A.1090307@tsoft-inc.com>   Rob Young wrote:  a > In article <PCSdnYsEm-EhSHagXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:p  K >>Hmmm.  You folks seem to approve of choice when you can twist the term topN >>suit your objectives, but far less so when it does not (e.g., 'pro choice').    Q Just goes to show that everyone's a f**king hypocrite, just as soon as they need Y to be.    E > 	But wait... isn't the word "choice" a great word to co-opt?  AfterDC > 	all, in this egalitarian age we live in it certainly wouldn't be9D > 	"fair" to be limited to *only* one choice would it?  Only when it$ > 	comes to education?  Oh... I see.    Q It means even more when the only choice is to become a slave for most of a year, .O and then be burdened with an unwanted economic and social hardship, all due to  0 someone else CHOOSING to eliminate your CHOICES.    K >>In the case of public education, the problems with your 'choice' approachdL >>are  1) that the 'choice' is highly dependent upon what private facilitiesI >>just happen to be within reach of people dissatisfied with their public E >>schools (i.e., it promotes inequality of educational opportunity byoH >>geographical location, unlike a solution which *fixes* the problems in >>public schools),   >> > F > 	And this presupposes that private education isn't within reach.  ByE > 	counter-example we could agree.  However, in a free market societyAE > 	if the money was there it wouldn't be much of a stretch to supposelE > 	private education would become available if it wasn't.  Also, some:E > 	of the better teachers would make their way to the private segmentM= > 	to escape the poor administration (as you admit to below).  > ; > 2) that in cases where there *are* alternatives to choose8 > D >>those alternatives often promote a religious agenda that it is notM >>appropriate for the State to fund (and furthermore may place parents in thecK >>awkward position of having to choose between a public school they feel istN >>sub-standard and an alternative that preaches rubbish that they and/or their! >>children may find offensive),  o    M I don't know.  In SW Pennsylvania the Catholic schools just keep on closing. fC Some were worse at educating than the public schools.  Some better.i    G > 	But by having choice, you wouldn't necessarily choose that route.  AAE > 	charter school might be a better fit.  So what is your point?  YouhG > 	arguing from the extreme (i.e. private Christian education available H > 	but no charter schools?)  How often is that the case?  Any numbers orC > 	evidence it is or would be a problem?  Or just another strawman?     L Charter schools have opened in Pennsylvania, with mixed results.  There are I always the con artists who will open such, just to skip as much money as  L possible while providing minimal education.  Such need to be monitored, and  funded based upon performance.  3 Hey, that might even be an idea for public schools.     - >>3) that in many cases the vouchers provideddN >>do not cover the entire cost of alternative education, thus subsidizing onlyL >>those parents who can afford to cough up the difference (i.e., a decidedly >>regressive subsidy),   >> >  > H > 	Not at all.  In fact (from my personal observation), those that can'tM > 	afford it are often fully subsidized in private elementary education on a o > 	needs basis.eI > 	Often there are private moneys that are available for needy kids.  ThenG > 	folks that are left out today are folks that make too much money but L > 	don't have the money of say the Clintons or a wealthy Senator.  By havingI > 	vouchers, those in the middle will be able to swing private education.  >  >  > 6 >>4) that diverting public funds away from (admittedlyJ >>sometimes problematic) public schools helps perpetuate their problems byK >>ensuring that they will not have sufficient resources to improve, and  5)dJ >>that providing a State-sponsored escape for parents who are dissatisfiedM >>with the state of their local public schools removes motivation for them to-D >>step up to the plate and demand that they be improved (effectivelyB >>relegating the remaining students to the trash-heap of society).    L That's a nice thought.  But parents have a small window in which to educate M their children.  If their efforts will not bear fruit until after their kids iI have lost out, don't expect any to buy that 'nice thought'.  Their first  O priority is their kids, and they should, and must, do whatever they need to do.     E > 	That's not true.  By counter-example the programs in Milwaukee and E > 	Cleveland are successful.  Very poor inner-city schools.  Now heregB > 	is the rub.. while most conservatives are very much in favor ofH > 	school choice, so are many inner city liberals as they are living theK > 	effects of shoddy education (education that hasn't improved in decades).t > ( > 	Just how successful and at what cost? > < > http://www.heartland.org/archives/education/feb00/bash.htm > U > An independent study of the Cleveland voucher program found that students gained in@U > the first year. However, public education establishment defenders instead cited the-U > officially authorized study by Indiana University, which reported that students haduP > not gained during the first year. When Indiana University researchers recentlyO > reported significant gains by the end of the second year, these findings wereyD > greeted with silence by those who hailed the first year's report.  > R > But what if researchers still found no gains? If choice students do as well at aP > cost of $2,500 a year as their peers do at over $7,000 a year in the Cleveland/ > public schools, which is the better program? t > A > 	Cheaper and better.  Hmmm... sounds like a successful program.w >  > K >>Public education in the U.S. is the result of the belief that an educated D >>public is critical to the successful function of a democracy.  TheM >>alternative to such public education is private education (i.e., abandoningeM >>that belief and leaving education to those who can afford it), not the kindtL >>of goulash conservatives promote as 'choice' but which in fact leaves veryK >>little choice at all for a very large portion of those who need help (andaL >>subsidizes many who would otherwise - very appropriately - have to pay theN >>freight themselves if they wished to indulge their religious fetishes and/or >>upper-class fantasies).s >> >> > E > 	Ah... if it was all about fantasy and religion I suppose you would I > 	have a point.  That is why it is *very* important to have standardized-D > 	testing so you can have something to compare.  To measure whetherE > 	a program is successful or not.  Otherwise, I guess you could polldA > 	for "feelings."  "Tell us, do you feel more or less educated?"A >  > 0 >>  There is an excellent overview of Washington >>B >>>D.C.'s chances of getting choice (following in the footsteps of= >>>successful programs in Cleveland and Milwaukee) in today's @ >>>Wall Street.. you must be a subscriber and being a subscriber >>>isn't free: >>>9M >>>http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1038779399344240073,00.html?mod=opinion  >>>i) >>>Since the Supreme Court paved the way,  >>>oL >>Laying that asphalt right over the fundamental principals of supporting anI >>educated populace and separating Church and State that have stood us in 0 >>rather good stead for well over two centuries. >> >> > E > 	Church and state?  What if most of the schools are charter schools J > 	and have little to do with Church?  Still gonna trot out that strawman? >  >  >> and Washington D.C.'s >>C >>>schools are failing left and right, (one detail from the articleaE >>>shows that D.C.'s math testing shows juniors in highschool failingNC >>>below national testing standards to the tune of 72%) and ClintonuD >>>was the obstacle last time this was up (he vetoed Washington D.C. >>>school choice bill) >>>wJ >>And rightly so:  the solution is to fix the schools, not to abandon them' >>(and the students remaining in them).s >> >> > E > 	How many more decades do you think it will take?  They are totally  > 	broken.  Endemically so.u >  > & >> .. You see there is a great deal of >>= >>>hypocrisy here.  Chelsea went to one of the finest private/, >>>schools in D.C. as do Senator's children. >>> J >>Bullshit.  You don't by choice leave your children in a burning buildingN >>just because you don't have the water to extinguish the blaze right now, butG >>that doesn't mean that you're not working to fix the problem as well.g    Q Here's where your arguments fall apart.  As I wrote above, and you confirm here, sM you do what you have to do.  Just who gets to use the escape, and who has to  P stay in the burning building?  Women and children first?  At least the children.  M Makes no sense Bill.  If the building is burning, how can you consign any to IO stay.  Why, so the fire department will put out the fire?  How many casualties a are 'acceptable'?     F > 	No.  Quite a bit of hypocrisy in fact.  Here is another point along > 	those lines:i > L > http://www.schoolreport.com/schoolreport/articles/voicesforchoice_5_00.htm > H > "I'm stymied and stunned oftentimes by members of the political world,Q > specifically some of our national leaders in my party - Kennedy, Cuomo, et al - O > who never sent their children to the public schools of Boston or New York but ( > came out foursquare against vouchers." > $ > Ohio State Senator Patrick SweeneyP > (D-23, Cleveland), testifying before an Ohio House Education Committee hearingK > at HOPE Central Academy (a school created specifically to accept students>G > funded by the Cleveland Scholarship and Tuition Program), April, 1997F    L Perhaps one solution is to REQUIRE the children of all elected officials to L attend public schools.  Then they might see some urgency in fixing what has 5 become quite possibly the biggest failure of the USA.n     >>  It is certain Bush will> >>D >>>sign it to give D.C students a fair chance at a better education. >>>n3 >>>Here is a link to a D.C. school choice overview:n >>>c7 >>>http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020731-48349993.htms >>>k >>Doesn't work for me. >> >> > q > http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:tqKpfRauroQC:www.washtimes.com/metro/20020731-48349993.htm+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8a >  >  > G >>Unfortunately, the failure of public schools to teach the elements of M >>critical analysis has apparently dumbed down the majority of the population-N >>sufficiently that they can no longer reason competently about this and otherH >>such matters:  give them an ill-advised and half-baked 'solution' thatK >>appears to meet some of their immediate concerns, and they'll vote for it H >>without bothering to understand the drawbacks even if someone tries to >>present them.l    M And only Bill can see reality?  I'm half tempted to go back and drag up some d, material where you see this fault in others.    @ > 	Quite a bit of puffery in that paragraph above.  I suppose usF > 	poor dumb sops can be suckered by pert near anything.  (As you wax 0 > 	poetically in a very Mark Twain like manner). >  > M >>Because there's excellent reason to:  the fact that some of his stances mayl4 >>be questionable in no way means that they all are. >>  >>  Can you get any further left >> >>>than Ted Kennedy? >>>.N >>Typical right-wing asshole approach:  if you don't have a credible argument,H >>demonize the opposition - the American public's too dumb to notice the
 >>difference.o    N Typical Bill approach.  When you lose an argument, revert to calling everyone 
 'asshole'.    C > 	You can't get much further to the left than Ted Kennedy and many J > 	liberals would agree to that.  Should I source it for you?  Apparently.) > 	Otherwise I would be demonizing him.  p >  >  > E >>>http://www.schoolreport.com/schoolreport/articles/oppose_10_00.html >>>eL >>>Sen. Patrick Daniel Moynihan (D-NY) He favored school choice "long before >>>  >>it >>F >>>was either conservative or liberal," and, "if it prevails only as aD >>>conservative cause, it will have been a great failure of American >>>liberalism..."c >>>  >>>oB >>>How bout that?  Seems the conservatives have "school choice" asE >>>a cause and subsequently it is *another* great failure of Americano >>>liberalism. >>>rM >>You should note that the word 'voucher' does not appear in the above quote,dM >>making it unclear whether Moynihan was supporting the approach you favor orNL >>simply choice *within* the public system to allow better public schools toL >>blossom while inferior ones withered (something I have no problem with, as3 >>it has none of the drawbacks I noted previously).  >> >> > @ > 	But a quick search would either confirm or deny he also meantI > 	vouchers or credits.  Why not shoot it down instead of typing a bunch 3 > 	of words? > L > http://www.schoolreport.com/schoolreport/articles/voicesforchoice_5_00.htm > N > Moynihan was co-sponsor of a bi-partisan bill in the early 1970s which wouldQ > have provided support for parental choice, with tax credits or tuition paymentsoL > to private schools. It almost passed. Moynihan said the reason it lost wasO > because opponents distrusted educational pluralism and supported the monopoly K > of the public school bureaucracies and who hid these views behind real orrD > imagined constitutional questions. Educational Choice, August 1989 >  >  > K >>In a great many cases where liberals have supported vouchers, it has beentJ >>because their own local constituency had a major problem and the voucherN >>approach appeared to offer a quick fix regardless of its problems in a wider
 >>sense.   >> > ? > 	Voucher problems?  Name a problem.  Trot out some supportingw > 	evidence, anything. > A > 	A quick fix?  Oh I suppose the decades of poor schools finally H > 	have those suffering the most fed up and they somehow demand a "quickG > 	fix?"  How about... the system is broken and lets fix it.  Let's endrG > 	around the communist blockade by offering school choice.  Isn't thatnG > 	a better read?  After all, Moynihan recognized the system was broken D > 	back in the early 70s.  30+ years of broken schools.  Those folksE > 	are long suffering.  If we are to ever help the truly needy in therC > 	inner cities, they have to get a better education.  Let's see ifnG > 	8-15 years from now if Cleveland, Milwaukee and Washington D.C. haveIC > 	a corresponding drop in crime rates.  Wouldn't that be expected?c >  >  > F >>While local politicians who find themselves in such binds and can beG >>excused for such actions (just as people with the means to send their H >>children to private schools can be excused for doing so), it in no wayL >>implies that those actions constitute a proper solution rather than a very6 >>temporary band-aid to be used only in extreme cases. >> >> >  > 	Nonsense. > T > Who said inner city schools "are absolutely terrible - they ought to be blown up";O > that we can't let the kids "escape"? Keith Geiger, the NEA President who saido# > choice supporters are "pushers." e > Q > "It is time to admit that public education...more resembles a communist economylN > than our own market economy"? The late Al Shanker, president of the American > Federation of Teachers.  >  > H > 	You see the system is broken and has been for quite some time.  WhereL > 	chaos often reigns (inner cities) the effects are most apparent.  PrivateJ > 	schools offer many things that contribute to their success.  Among themG > 	are strict discipline, motivated staff.  As Cleveland shows, you can G > 	actually spend less money and turn out a better product.  Milwaukee,fG > 	Cleveland, and soon Washington D.C. will be success stories.  OthershD > 	can't or won't be far behind even if some liberals scream and TedH > 	tries to shoot it down.  Again, it is very difficult to argue against > 	success, isn't it?n > 	 > 				Robf >  >   K I'm not sure that vouchers is the answer.  I think that it has a chance of d destroying public education.  P What is needed is to allow public education to get back to what it's suppose to M do.  Educate!  Right now it's a day-care.  When we get to college, sooner or  N later we run into an instructor who says, "I'm going to present the material. 2 It's up to you whether you learn, or even attend."  7 Want to get dedicated teachers?  Give them avid pupils.m  = Want to get teachers who don't care?  Make them baby-sitters.e  L Make public school optional.  Those who want to learn, go.  Those who won't H learn, stay away.  Put the responsibility back where it belongs, on the P individual.  Or, in this case, on the parent to stress education, and learning, D and striving to excel.  Bring back some discipline.  Bring back the Q BOARD-OF-EDUCATION.  Ok, now you can start in on me, but you cannot change this, tM when I ws in school, things that are happening today just didn't happen.  Go  3 ahead and argue against what worked, and succeeded.u   Dave   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:24:29 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)? Subject: overlapping wildcards (was DIRECTORY: bug or feature?) . Message-ID: <asla7t$j6t$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes in article <01KPN1S96LBAA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> dated Wed, 04 Dec 2002 16:07:22 +0100 (MET): >$ dir *a*,*b* >l  >Directory DISK:[HELBIG.SCRATCH] >l >AB.TXT;1            AB.TXT;1n >e >Total of 2 files. > G >Naively, I would have thought that the file would NOT be listed twice.   L Obviously, it's the parsing that is naive.  If you give it a list, it simplyH runs through it sequentially.  Without even checking, I'm sure that this% behavoir matches DEC's documentation.d  G >In this case, not a problem, but when producing a large list of files JG >for further processing via overlapping wildcards, this can be a pain: t: >one has to produce a list then get rid of the duplicates.  = Here's a way around the problem using a version number trick.g  <     $ purge		! if you think you might have multiple versions     $ rename *.* ;1        $ rename *a*.*,*b*.* ;99
     $ dir ;99K   Or the copy-to-version-1 trick:n  #     $ copy *a*.*,*b*.* [.temp]*.*;10  F Which fails the second time around for the overlapping set, giving the result you want.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 17:28:20 +0100 (MET)u9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>tC Subject: Re: overlapping wildcards (was DIRECTORY: bug or feature?)e; Message-ID: <01KPN4PNTZL4A24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  J > > Naively, I would have thought that the file would NOT be listed twice. > N > Obviously, it's the parsing that is naive.  If you give it a list, it simplyJ > runs through it sequentially.  Without even checking, I'm sure that this' > behavoir matches DEC's documentation.d  ? > Here's a way around the problem using a version number trick.. > > >     $ purge		! if you think you might have multiple versions >     $ rename *.* ;1  >  >     $ rename *a*.*,*b*.* ;99 >     $ dir ;99I > ! > Or the copy-to-version-1 trick:  > % >     $ copy *a*.*,*b*.* [.temp]*.*;1  > H > Which fails the second time around for the overlapping set, giving the > result you want.  ; OK, nice trick, but if the files are several GB in size....-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 10:49:38 -0800h+ From: seanobanion@attbi.com (Sean O'Banion)K' Subject: Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1g= Message-ID: <f883d5a4.0212041049.4dc8f0a6@posting.google.com>   5 We are seeing CA Watchdog go into a loop under 7.3-1.vC CA and HP are looking at PTHREADS and ADA RTL as possible culprits.m  > Do you (or anyone) recall if ADA was used in this file server?     Sean  g David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<20021121084735.0279e88f.mathog@caltech.edu>...S* > On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:52:40 -0700 (MST)% > John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:  >  > >  > >  > > - > > On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Paul Anderson wrote:t > > M > > > In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0211181557310.17812-100000@athena.csdco.com>, ) > > > John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:p > > > E > > > > It looks like VMS 7.3-1 breaks the unsupported and heretofore-1 > > > > indestructible Pathworks Mac file server.  > > > >  > F > I tried very hard for the better part of a year to get Pathworks/MacM > released so that it could be maintained by the end users.  Digipaq couldn'thK > figure out all the intellectual property issues.  That was a particularlypM > shocking lesson in itself. Who would have thought that a major company likehQ > Digipaq would license technologies and then not be able to determine what their N > rights were under those licenses down the road?  Heck, they didn't even knowN > who owned the other ends of the licenses!  No wonder Digipaq was so happy toS > shed intellectual property - they were vastly incompetent at keeping track of it. N > I hunted down the owners of the Alisashare bits myself and the ownership hadN > wandered off into a company N times removed which had absolutely no interestK > in Pathworks/Mac - and was literally willing to write a letter to Digipaq.Q > disowning any interest in the product.  Parts of Pathworks/Mac came from Apple.DR > You might have thought that Digipaq could resolve an issue like this with Apple.M > I don't know if they tried and failed or never tried, but the issue was nott > resolved.e > + > Eventually I just gave up in frustration.o > K > It was inevitable that some version of VMS would break PW/Mac.  Do not berK > surprised if some release of VMS breaks connectivity to printers as well. H > I'm not at all confident that Chumpaq can even locate all the relevantK > source code for PW/Mac to fix such a problem, or would bother to even tryaL > should this occur (no matter how much the DCPS folks screamed).  Your bestG > bet is to get the heck off VMS before the vendor causes you even morehH > problems Failing that, set up a Linux box running netatalk, export theK > stuff you want to share from VMS to it over NFS, and share the NFS mount .N > point with netatalk. It should also work using NFS in the other direction.   > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu@ > Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 03:09:39 -0800l7 From: stephen_bainbridge@yahoo.co.uk (Steve Bainbridge)o7 Subject: Performance of atomic instructions and lockingf= Message-ID: <a48f6f51.0212040309.5f99f7a3@posting.google.com>    Hi,b  D I need to provide protection to a shared memory data structure. ThisE is a large Index structure which essentially maps a text name onto an E address in a global section using hashing. There will be a maximum of9A 1 million entries in this index. The data structure for the index  looks like:l  0 struct ts_idx           /* idx global section */   {a4   UNSIGNED sic_hash_table[C_IDX_NUM_HASH_ENTRIES+1];4   UNSIGNED ric_hash_table[C_IDX_NUM_HASH_ENTRIES+1];  8   struct ts_idx_entry  idx_table[C_IDX_NUM_IDX_ENTRIES];     UNSIGNED numentries;   UNSIGNED numdelentries;    struct ts_head freehd;     };  B Currently we use an atomic function (__TESTBITSSI( &addr, bit)) toA lock the whole index down whenever a process is either reading oreB writing to it. Given that about 95%+ accesses to the index are forE read only I've implemented a read/write locking mechanism that allowsiF multiple readers to access the data and only a single writer to updateC it. The only problem is the new code is no faster that the old coder and I can't work out why.-  * # Processes Old Code:            New Code:3   accessing Lookups per second   Lookups per seconds   structurej4 =========== ==================   ===================( 1           202,902              176,782( 2           114,820              106,574( 3            76,935               70,293( 4            58,756               54,829( 5            62,603               64,411  @ The software runs on a single node ES40 or ES45 with 4x1GHz CPUs under OpenVMS7.3-1  A Perhaps I have overdone it with the Memory Barrier instructions ?K@ Also, the Wizard on the HP site notes that locking a variable inF memory may lock the surrounding areas and cause a performance hit. ButD it does not say how large the surrounding area is or how this can be calculated. Any ideas ?.   The new lock code is below.o   Cheers for any help. Steve Bainbridge  5 =====================================================p   /*  *I  * http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/scott/synchronization/pseudocode/rw.htmlj  *  *  */-   /*B  * Pseudo code for a simple, non-scalable writer-preference lock. 8  * Grants FIFO access to writers. Starves readers under E  * continuous writer load. Employs atomic_add and compare_and_store. o  *D  * =================================================================  *  * type lock = recordlC  *     write_requests, write_completions : unsigned integer := 0, 0:*  *     rdr_cnt_and_flag : unsigned integer  *         // layout9  *         //  63         ...          1        0        s:  *         // +-------------------------+----------------+:  *         // | interested reader count | active writer? |:  *         // +-------------------------+----------------+  * r0  *     const WFLAG = 1     // writer active flagF  *     const RC_INCR = 2   // constant used to adjust the reader count  *  #  * procedure start_read (L : ^lock)p<  *     repeat until L->write_requests = L->write_completions1  *     atomic_add (&L->rdr_cnt_and_flag, RC_INCR)-5  *     repeat until (L->rdr_cnt_and_flag & WFLAG) = 0   * l$  * procedure start_write (L : ^lock)*  *     previous_writers : unsigned integer6  *         := fetch_and_increment (&L->write_requests);  *     repeat until L->write_completions = previous_writers.F  *     repeat until compare_and_store (&L->rdr_cnt_and_flag, 0, WFLAG)  *  !  * procedure end_read (L : ^lock)u3  *     atomic_add (&L->rdr_cnt_and_flag, -RC_INCR) -  * -!  * procedure end_write (L: ^lock)00  *     atomic_add (&L->rdr_cnt_and_flag, -WFLAG)/  *     atomic_increment (&L->write_completions)g  */  T     #include <builtins.h>.  , #define WFLAG   1   /* writer active flag */B #define RC_INCR 2   /* constant used to adjust the reader count */   struct s_lock {     int  write_requests;r    int  write_completions;    int  rdr_cnt_and_flag;d      /* Layout1    //  63         ...          1        0        o2    // +-------------------------+----------------+2    // | interested reader count | active writer? |2    // +-------------------------+----------------+    */t };  2 void set_read_lock (volatile struct s_lock *lock){  <    /* Wait for all outstanding write requests to complete */  9    while(lock->write_requests != lock->write_completions)h       ;r  *    /* Indicate that we want a read lock */  
    __MB();@    __ATOMIC_ADD_LONG ((volatile void *) &lock->rdr_cnt_and_flag,	 RC_INCR);(
    __MB();  4    /* Only continue when there are no write locks */  -    while(lock->rdr_cnt_and_flag & WFLAG != 0)e       ;e   }r  3 void set_write_lock (volatile struct s_lock *lock){h    int previous_writers;         /* Indicate another writer */  
    __MB();@    previous_writers = __ATOMIC_INCREMENT_LONG ((volatile void *) &lock->write_requests);o
    __MB();  7    /* Wait until all previous writers have completed */v  5    while(lock->write_completions != previous_writers)n       ;a    C    /* Wait until nothing is accessing the data and grab the lock */o  
    __MB();E    while(__CMP_STORE_LONG ((volatile void *) &lock->rdr_cnt_and_flag,m: 0, WFLAG, (volatile void *) &lock->rdr_cnt_and_flag) == 0)       ; 
    __MB(); }n    6 void release_read_lock (volatile struct s_lock *lock){  
    __MB();@    __ATOMIC_ADD_LONG ((volatile void *) &lock->rdr_cnt_and_flag,
 -RC_INCR);
    __MB();   }     7 void release_write_lock (volatile struct s_lock *lock){n   
    __MB();@    __ATOMIC_ADD_LONG ((volatile void *) &lock->rdr_cnt_and_flag, -WFLAG);  -    __ATOMIC_INCREMENT_LONG ((volatile void *)g &lock->write_completions);
    __MB(); }    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2002 19:50:20 GMT@& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>. Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance* Message-ID: <asj1ts$bol$2@web1.cup.hp.com>  ' Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:s  ; > AMP9$ mcr bsrv_u1:[win.tmp]ttcp -l 65535 -b 1048576 -r -sn< > 	ttcp-r: buflen=65535, nbuf=2048, align=16384/0, port=5001
 > 	ttcp-r: sockbufsize=1048576,  # tcp # " > 	ttcp-r: accept from 172.20.42.8G > 	ttcp-r: 134215680 bytes in 3.505 real seconds = 37395.875 KB/sec +++cB > 	ttcp-r: 3628 I/O calls, msec/call = 0.989, calls/sec = 1035.113* > 	ttcp-r: 2.500user 0.000sys 0:03real 71%@ > AMP8$ mcr bsrv_u1:[win.tmp]ttcp -l 65535 -b 1048576 -t -s amp9< > 	ttcp-t: buflen=65535, nbuf=2048, align=16384/0, port=5001
 > 	ttcp-t:% sockbufsize=1048576,  # tcp -> amp9 #0 > 	ttcp-t: connectG > 	ttcp-t: 134215680 bytes in 3.503 real seconds = 37419.641 KB/sec +++.A > 	ttcp-t: 2048 I/O calls, msec/call = 1.751, calls/sec = 584.691o* > 	ttcp-t: 2.330user 0.000sys 0:03real 66%  F > As you could see, the waste performance of 4.4MB/s will increrase toD > the poor performance of 37.4MB/s. This value is near by the DTSENDF > value (32MB).  The CPU will be used about 20% at maximum. All system7 > resources are large enaugh to fit the request withouthE > bottleneck. The next test: switch to switch performance I will test- > later, if I have time.  E Not that I've ever trusted the CPU utilization figures from gettime()uF (iirc that is what ttcp uses - I don't like to use that in netperf andD either use other system-specific means, or soaker processes, one perC CPU) - since gettime() may not reflect CPU time spent on inbound onwD behalf of the process - but it seems that ttcp was reporting 71% andB 66% CPU utilization. From what source did you get a 20% figure? Or9 have I forgotten how to interpret ttcp output (a distinct 
 possibility).D  
 rick jones -- cF these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 17:07:40 +0100l+ From: "Juan C. Blanco" <jcblanco@fi.upm.es> 7 Subject: Problem found DS10 VMS 7.3-1 DECW$SERVER crasha) Message-ID: <3DECD6CC.F9556DE1@fi.upm.es>    > Also only some information:b > I > A DS10 with an Elsa Gloria card, OpenVMS V7.3-1 and Motif V1.2-6. WorkssI > OK with default display settings, but when I changed the settings to 24eH > bits per pixel, things started to get real slow and when I did an ExitJ > from CDE, the DECW$SERVER_0 process died. Just restarting DECwindows did: > not bring it back, but I had to reboot the whole system. > C > It seems to me that there is no relation with the contents of ther > [.DT...] directories.e >   B Yes, I've found that is not related to [.DT] directory. In my caseC the problem is with "graphic" characters. When I open a DECterm andgG uses some aplication that changes to graphic character set "<ESC>(0" oryF "<ESC>)0" (i.e. type a file with this content or runs FMS) al seems to workH right, the character were printed fine, but when the users logs out, theD DECW$SERVER dies with the ACCVIO I've mentioned in my previous post.  E Again, I've found the problem, but not the solucion, I'll tell you if/A COMPAQ (now part of the new HP :-)) can say something about this.e  $ Regards, and thank for your replies.     -- tB +----------------------------------------------------------------+B | Juan C. Blanco                                                 |B |                                                                |B |  Centro de Calculo              |                              |B |  Facultad de Informatica U.P.M. |  E-mail: jcblanco@fi.upm.es  |B |  Campus de Montegancedo         |                              |B |  Boadilla del Monte             |  Tel.:    (+34) 91 336 7466  |B |  28660 MADRID (Spain)           |  Fax :    (+34) 91 336 6913  |B +----------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:16:09 +0000o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: Problem with monitor files playback) Message-ID: <3DEDC7D9.41C26B1E@127.0.0.1>-   Wojciech Czaplinski wrote: >  > Hello All,L > The problem looks like this: I monitored  Alpha GS160 box running VMS 7.3,I > output was directed to the files. Now I need to playback those files on = > Alpha 1200 running the same OS version. After command like:d > ) > $ monitor system/all  /input=FILE.DAT;3  >  > I get following error: > : > %MONITOR-E-PREMEOF, premature end-of-file on /INPUT file  C Check you are using /BEGINNING and /ENDING because *todays* date isoB assumed, I guess the file you're looking at is a date in the past.   HELP/MESSAGE PREMEOF i  > isn't worth repeating here, but can show on issues with dates.   -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesr nclews at csc dot comy   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 13:20:37 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Q Subject: Re: Railroads in Scranton (was: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John...)u5 Message-ID: <askvf5$s91dg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  3 In article <qYZHgWHm60s7@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > @ > I remember taking the Phoebe Snow into Scranton in the 1960's.  A Must have been early in the 60's.  I just asked our secretary whopB is older than I am and lived here in Scranton.  She said late 50's or early 60's.   > J >> The nearest serious passenger service was Harrisburg and even that diedJ >> long ago (although I hear they want to revive it not only there, but up > A > Harrisburg is currently served by four AMTRAK trains a day, theg7 > Pennsylvanian (43, 44) and the Three Rivers (40, 41).   @ Yeah, and they'll probably never get that Bullet-train they were promised.  :-)   > B > Of course as the crow flies, it looks like you might be as close$ > to New York City as to Harrisburg.  G Not hardly.  Harrisburg is 1 hour straight down I81.  NYC is a long and) unpleasant trip through NJ.r  F If we had trains, it would be no more than 30-40 minutes to Harrisburg but still over an hour to NYC.   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 22:17:44 GMTs* From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <nospan@nospam.com>/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ? 3 Message-ID: <c4aH9.37$Ck1.2142321@news.cpqcorp.net>h  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0212010659.3a51fbe8@posting.google.com...i  E > You're being overly paranoid -- after all, MMS is used to build VMSH > itself.  The Roadmap at D > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htmE > indicates the DECset components (of which MMS is one) are slated toiF > ship with the ISV-focused release of OpenVMS that is scheduled to go > out the first halfof 2003.  H MMS is *NOT* used to build VMS.  The VMS build environment consists of aL bunch of DCL scripts, some of which date back to the PDP cross build.  It isL possible that some pieces of VMS may be built using MMS, but it is certainly, not used to drive the over-all system build.  J During the VAX to Alpha port, a small number of people discussed using MMSH in the build, but concluded to was too difficult to convert the existing+ build procedures into MMS dependency files.   J We do use other DECset tools, such as CMS, for revision control of the VMS source code.     Paul A. Jacobi Hewlett Packard Companym! OpenVMS Systems Group, ZKO3-4/U14k 110 Spitbrook Road Nashua, NH 03062-2698y$ Email: Paul dot Jacobi at hp dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 04:11:11 -0500a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: SoftPC on VMS/ Message-ID: <3DEDC6AE.B50F3038@vl.videotron.ca>n  K Last century (back when Digital was Digital), there was a DOS/8086 emulatoraM that ran on VMS, giving VT users a character cell interface to DOS. I believeo it was called SoftPC.   J Does anyone know what happened to it ? Would this still be available ? Any hopes as a hobbyist ?a  K I have a few DOS programs that have some problems with the RS232 port on mymJ MAC when running the windows emulator, and it would be nice if I could runM those on my VAX, hoping the RS232 support would be more complete (which woulds+ allow me to reverse engineer the protocol).r   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 08:47:48 -0500a& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)+ Subject: Re: totally OT: terminal emulators 1 Message-ID: <asl124$fss$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>t  G In article <craigberry-C43B26.21584603122002@news.directvinternet.com>,i6 Craig A. Berry <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> wrote:3 : In article <asj1an$q0m$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>,l* :  fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: : # : > You can find a comparison here:i : > 7 : >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/winsshclients.htmli : > G : > (Reflection was not included in this survey because it's not an SSHd
 : > client.)   : E : Apparently Reflection has SSH support as of 10.0, though I haven't i : tried that version yet:v : C : http://www.wrq.com/products/reflection/win/ruov/security.html#ssho :eH It wasn't an SSH client at the time survey was done.  A lot of stuff wasG added to K95 since then too but we don't have time to re-do our surveysa constantly.n   - Frankh   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 00:23:30 -0800d$ From: jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer) Subject: Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7= Message-ID: <5697eb95.0212040023.7f15f9af@posting.google.com>e  f David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote in message news:<usmpuuc8ldllumd36uqk7kskhd33ji7f4j@4ax.com>...M > On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 16:39:03 -0500, David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> wrote:c > P > >The version of UNZIP for OpenVMS which you can download from Hunter Goatley'sQ > >file server at http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?UNZIP does Q > >include, in the [.VMS-BINARIES] directories, object files compiled on VAX withdS > >VAX C. Whether or not they will work on V4.7 is an exercise you will have to trya4 > >out, I don't have a V4.7 system available to try. >    Dear David,,   thanks for your help.a  F I found the unzip version you mentioned before reading your answer and: could link it with modifications of the link command file.  + It seems to work, but there is one problem:s  9 If i have a zipfile which i generated at VMS5.4 includingsF subdirectories at the unzipping process these directories are created,E but the files in these subdirectories can't be created. The followingl RMS-errormessage is displayed:/ [ Cannot create output file test/y.tmp ]       t/ [ %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax error ]s, [ %NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number 00000000 ]  B If i create a Zipfile including subdirectories at Windows2000 with8 WinZip i can unzip it and the files are created in their; subdirectories but all files have the wrong file attributest (STREAM_LF).  E So i can use the Unzip only for zipfiles without subdirectories whichu is not very usefull.  $ Any ideas for solving this problem ?   Best Regards Joe Kreuzere   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 04:08:00 -0500t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Unzip for VMS 4.7/ Message-ID: <3DEDC5EF.F2A95139@vl.videotron.ca>i   Joe Kreuzer wrote:H > I found the unzip version you mentioned before reading your answer and< > could link it with modifications of the link command file.  N Your problem may be due to the zip file having been created with a more recentD version of zip, and you're trying to unzip it with an older version.  J The help file for ZIP 2.2 mentions that to unzip the files created by this+ version, you need unzip 5.0p1 or PKZIP 2.04   6 Is it possible that the unzip you are using is older ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:21:51 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Unzip for VMS 4.78 Message-ID: <uo3suuojduhhhh2dl79qhnr5hhj38lahjp@4ax.com>  C On 4 Dec 2002 00:23:30 -0800, jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer) wrote:a  , >It seems to work, but there is one problem: > : >If i have a zipfile which i generated at VMS5.4 includingG >subdirectories at the unzipping process these directories are created,gF >but the files in these subdirectories can't be created. The following >RMS-errormessage is displayed:o0 >[ Cannot create output file test/y.tmp ]       0 >[ %RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax error ]- >[ %NONAME-W-NOMSG, Message number 00000000 ]e  J My guess us that you did not include /VMS (or "-V" if you use the UNIX-ishN version) on your ZIP command to include VMS file attributes. I always use thisN attribute when I ZIP on VMS for VMS. When doing the work I mentioned to you, IO ZIPped the files on an OpenVMS Alpha V7.3 system, and UNZIPped them on the V4.7c system, without problems.eI ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)cI -------------------------------------------------------------------------w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:24:16 -0500I& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: Unzip for VMS 4.78 Message-ID: <8t3suu81f4ta6hi54rm7cnq06slpkjjruk@4ax.com>  C On 4 Dec 2002 00:23:30 -0800, jk@igm-group.com (Joe Kreuzer) wrote:c  C >If i create a Zipfile including subdirectories at Windows2000 withs9 >WinZip i can unzip it and the files are created in theire< >subdirectories but all files have the wrong file attributes
 >(STREAM_LF).   O For this case, try /TEXT on the UNZIP to "conver" text files to VMS-format text O files (implied carriage return). I ran into this recently with the C-Kermit ZIPnL files, and /TEXT made it work (that's -a, I think, on the UNIX-ish version).I -------------------------------------------------------------------------iI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------a   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 21:00:00 +1100B From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@noooo_spammm_optusnet.com.au>' Subject: Re: Using old VRT19-HA Monitorh< Message-ID: <3dedd21f$0$18870$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   I had one of those    They are a sony, and very heavy. Spent ages looking ofr a cable+ for it. Didn't have the skill/understandingt on how to make my own.  ! Eventually after four house movesr I sadly had to through it away.l Worked great on my VAX 4000u though.t   not really any help sorryh   kiwi    ; "Jack Trachtman" <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote in messageu7 news:69d784c4.0211291505.336a34f5@posting.google.com...n9 > Can anyone tell me if I can use an old VRT19-HA monitort7 > with one of the newer graphics cards (some version oft > a Number 9 card)?  > 5 > The monitor takes an RGB cable (only 3 wires).  Anyu0 > idea where to get a conversion cable?  Thanks.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:53:42 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>x' Subject: RE: Using old VRT19-HA Monitor K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BA8@rlghncst964.usps.gov>>  1 The VRT-17s have Sony Trinitron tubes inside 'em.d6 And wall-to-wall metal shielding surrounding the tube.  0 I suspect the same is true for the 19s, but I've" never had occasion to open one up.  4 Definitely a superior level of construction than is & the norm forthings manufactured today.  : A 3 BNC => VGA adapter does exist- I'm virtually positive ' that it's mentioned in the OpenVMS FAQ.m  ; Also if you websearch on "BNC to VGA" and/or "VGA to BNC", y6 you'll get a large number of hits for places that have cables.    WWWebb =========================m I had one of those    They are a sony, and very heavy. Spent ages looking ofr a cable+ for it. Didn't have the skill/understanding> on how to make my own.  ! Eventually after four house movesr I sadly had to through it away.  Worked great on my VAX 4000e though.e   not really any help sorry.   kiwi    ; "Jack Trachtman" <Jack.Trachtman@vmmc.org> wrote in messageh7 news:69d784c4.0211291505.336a34f5@posting.google.com...a9 > Can anyone tell me if I can use an old VRT19-HA monitorn7 > with one of the newer graphics cards (some version ofq > a Number 9 card)?n >a5 > The monitor takes an RGB cable (only 3 wires).  Anyr0 > idea where to get a conversion cable?  Thanks.   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:20:25 +0100" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>% Subject: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS 5 Message-ID: <askdsc$qfs54$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>c  L With two powerful VAXstations (4000-90A) I'm considering setting one up as aH webserver. I've got Freeware distribution V5, which offers a few options (like WASD IIRC).i  < Question 1: which one is the easiest to set up and maintain?  J Question 2: are there other (freeware) products that I should investigate?    
 Hans Vlems   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 09:06:11 -0000e4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS 6 Message-ID: <20021204090611.30704.qmail@nym.alias.net>  7 On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:oM >With two powerful VAXstations (4000-90A) I'm considering setting one up as aqI >webserver. I've got Freeware distribution V5, which offers a few optionsh >(like WASD IIRC). >o= >Question 1: which one is the easiest to set up and maintain?  >qK >Question 2: are there other (freeware) products that I should investigate?u  K I've only tried WASD. I found it easy to set up and it hasn't been heavy on.: resources so I saw no need to look into the other options.  B *HOWEVER* Download the latest version instead of using that on theK Freeware. There are some rather serious security holes in that version that + were only recently discovered and resolved.s  F As to other options... A certain "Alan Winston" wrote a book comparing Apache, OSU, and WASD. :)e   Now a question of my own...u  E Shouldn't the kits of vulnerable WASD versions be taken down from thed' publically accessible freeware archive?g     Doc. -- r6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:44:13 -0700r+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>t) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMSn% Message-ID: <3DEE30DD.20602@MMaz.com>    Hans Vlems wrote:d  M >With two powerful VAXstations (4000-90A) I'm considering setting one up as aiI >webserver. I've got Freeware distribution V5, which offers a few options  >(like WASD IIRC). >i= >Question 1: which one is the easiest to set up and maintain?e >pK >Question 2: are there other (freeware) products that I should investigate?m >  e >bC WASD is still under current development and support!  It is a good  A server and the author is very responsive on their mailing list...    Regards,   Barrys   -- b  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:53:38 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>C) Subject: RE: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMENKGCAA.tom@kednos.com>C   >-----Original Message-----.1 >From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:Treahy@MMaz.com]o+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 8:44 AMm >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* >Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS >a >n >Hans Vlems wrote: >tB >>With two powerful VAXstations (4000-90A) I'm considering setting >one up as aJ >>webserver. I've got Freeware distribution V5, which offers a few options >>(like WASD IIRC).t >>> >>Question 1: which one is the easiest to set up and maintain? >>L >>Question 2: are there other (freeware) products that I should investigate? >> >>C >WASD is still under current development and support!  It is a gooduB >server and the author is very responsive on their mailing list... >a   I second that.    	 >Regards,e >w >Barry >r >--a >t@ >Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO > B >E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028 >  >k >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002 >O ---F& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:41:36 GMT-1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>T( Subject: Re: what does this command mean5 Message-ID: <k5kH9.285$P5.16863@nasal.pacific.net.au>b  1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:. > Shane Smith wrote: >> NL: >> HI >> This is the null device, which in this particular case behaves like and >> empty file.  M > I was always told it was a big bit bucket. What puzzles me though is if youDK > send a whole bunch of stuff to the big bit bucket, and why won't TYPE NL:e1 > bring back the stuff from that big bit bucket ?e   > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   " 	'Cause it's a leaky bucket... :-)  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------WE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehognE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.sI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------e;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:08:04 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ( Subject: Re: what does this command mean8 Message-ID: <tokruuo91kfblh4hd3mum7mu65bsvght59@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 01:07:36 -0500, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:   >Shane Smith wrote:e >> NL: >> sI >> This is the null device, which in this particular case behaves like an. >> empty file. > L >I was always told it was a big bit bucket. What puzzles me though is if youJ >send a whole bunch of stuff to the big bit bucket, and why won't TYPE NL:0 >bring back the stuff from that big bit bucket ? >e >:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   >EE >(Seriously though, such a device would have been quite interesting ,hN >especially prior to the appearance of the PIPE command, it would allow you toM >create a bucket, send output to it, and then read from it. (think of it as aa >temporary in-memory file).u  @ You've just described exactly what DEC's TOPS-10 called "TMPCOR"E (temporary core files). It was commonly used for passing arguments. Ae primitive RAMDISK  I suppose..   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:08:28 +0100*9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ( Subject: Re: what does this command mean' Message-ID: <3DEDE22C.C10D9BAA@aaa.com>   8 What about a small DECram device for temp file storage ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.u   Alan Greig wrote:i > B > You've just described exactly what DEC's TOPS-10 called "TMPCOR"G > (temporary core files). It was commonly used for passing arguments. At > primitive RAMDISK  I suppose.: >  > -- > Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 06:36:22 -0800g. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: what does this command mean= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212040636.70dd501b@posting.google.com>y  \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C29AFA.C8D79BB0@sulfer.icius.com>... [...]n > NL:e > H > This is the null device, which in this particular case behaves like an
 > empty file.( > J > When you add them all up, it's blank the screen then dump nothing to it.H > I suppose you could consider it abuse of the TYPE command, but I doubtI > TYPE minds... I suggest you make liberal use of the HELP command, whichcI > you'll find extremely useful once you've got used to it. You could havetI > found all this in there. If you're just starting with VMS, try furkling 4 > through the INSTRUCTIONS and HINTS sections first. [...]o  E And just how would he have found out about NL: from the HELP command?u   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:21:26 -0500% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>u( Subject: Re: what does this command mean/ Message-ID: <uusas7lgkpfdd3@news.supernews.com>o  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:b096a4ee.0212040636.70dd501b@posting.google.com...t1 > Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message , news:<01C29AFA.C8D79BB0@sulfer.icius.com>... > [...]l > > NL:t > >tJ > > This is the null device, which in this particular case behaves like an > > empty file.r > >hL > > When you add them all up, it's blank the screen then dump nothing to it.J > > I suppose you could consider it abuse of the TYPE command, but I doubtK > > TYPE minds... I suggest you make liberal use of the HELP command, which K > > you'll find extremely useful once you've got used to it. You could havekK > > found all this in there. If you're just starting with VMS, try furklingu6 > > through the INSTRUCTIONS and HINTS sections first. > [...]u >nG > And just how would he have found out about NL: from the HELP command?e >P   By "furkling" of course!  :)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:02:49 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: what does this command mean. Message-ID: <3DEE4348.16EA922@vl.videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t > : > What about a small DECram device for temp file storage ?  N Does DECram operate in a process environment or is that a virtual disk that is created at the system level ?e  I Also, DECram has all the overhead of a file system. I would want a memoryaH bucket that is small and not a "file" but rather just a buffer one could read/write to.  
 for instance:e    $CREATE/BUFFER/size=10k mybuffer# $show log mybuffer  ----> "_BUA25:"l $show system/output=mybuffer $search mybuffer IMAP- $edit mybuffer $print mybuffere    T (in the case of the print command, it would spool the file (1,1,1) on device BUA25:)  & delete mybuffer: would zap the buffer.  K One could create multiple buffers in a process. And one could be created by R default. The advantage over "PIPE" is that the data can be re-used multiple times.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:41:36 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>( Subject: RE: what does this command mean0 Message-ID: <01C29B81.BA74ABD0@sulfer.icius.com>  G I always think of it as write-only memory. Very useful in high securityN applications...[   Shane_   -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]d) Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:08 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ( Subject: Re: what does this command mean     Shane Smith wrote: > NL:e > H > This is the null device, which in this particular case behaves like an
 > empty file.p  G I was always told it was a big bit bucket. What puzzles me though is if  youeE send a whole bunch of stuff to the big bit bucket, and why won't TYPEs NL:t/ bring back the stuff from that big bit bucket ?    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   D (Seriously though, such a device would have been quite interesting ,F especially prior to the appearance of the PIPE command, it would allow you toG create a bucket, send output to it, and then read from it. (think of it= as aF temporary in-memory file). That would have allowed piping capabilities thatD would have been far more efficient because the command woudl execute from the4 same process, with no subprocess creation overhead).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:38:55 -0800$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>( Subject: RE: what does this command mean0 Message-ID: <01C29B81.727BAEF0@sulfer.icius.com>   Rooting, rummaging, etc.   -----Original Message-----6 From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net]( Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 8:07 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr( Subject: Re: what does this command mean     Shane Smith wrote:7 > [snip] If you're just starting with VMS, try furkling=4 > through the INSTRUCTIONS and HINTS sections first.   "furkling" ???!!!.   -- e David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:41:28 +0100 (MET)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>8 Subject: Re: what does this command mean (TYPE/PAGE NL:)6 Message-ID: <200212040741.IAA14838@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  G in the early VMS days, I did try to write a DCL commandprocedure, thatsaF clear the screen and set the pointer to the home position. It was veryI difficult in case of having VT05, VT52, VT100, VT102 and so on terminals.-F Every type did need an own ESC sequence to to the needs. Since the dayI of TYPE/PAGE I could use this command to do the same, device independend.    Regards R. Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:22:21 GMTo8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)8 Subject: Re: what does this command mean (TYPE/PAGE NL:)2 Message-ID: <hknH9.12$w03.744622@news.cpqcorp.net>  _ In article <200212040741.IAA14838@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:i >Hello,l >)H >in the early VMS days, I did try to write a DCL commandprocedure, thatsG >clear the screen and set the pointer to the home position. It was veryeJ >difficult in case of having VT05, VT52, VT100, VT102 and so on terminals.G >Every type did need an own ESC sequence to to the needs. Since the day&J >of TYPE/PAGE I could use this command to do the same, device independend.  ' What does it do on a hardcopy terminal?F" Or if you've done a SET HOST /LOG?   -- mI       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USAiH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:34:32 -0500.! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>/8 Subject: Re: what does this command mean (TYPE/PAGE NL:)' Message-ID: <3DEE1278.7B4FC367@vcu.edu>   E if you've done a set host /log it only clears the screen, but you cantG with edit/edt see the escape sequences in the log file...  quite usefuli for debugging screen calls!!!/   jimw   Charlie Hammond wrote: > a > In article <200212040741.IAA14838@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>, Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes:_	 > >Hello,_ > >(J > >in the early VMS days, I did try to write a DCL commandprocedure, thatsI > >clear the screen and set the pointer to the home position. It was verydL > >difficult in case of having VT05, VT52, VT100, VT102 and so on terminals.I > >Every type did need an own ESC sequence to to the needs. Since the day L > >of TYPE/PAGE I could use this command to do the same, device independend. > ) > What does it do on a hardcopy terminal? $ > Or if you've done a SET HOST /LOG? >  > --K >       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Pompano Beach  FL USA J >        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:24:41 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>k+ Subject: Winkler to be new marketing chief.;8 Message-ID: <7olruu4r91v8j0qlndcc8fj9e0c3mcmrvr@4ax.com>  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6539  + HP sees little sign of technology recovery    ) Growth could be as little as two per centG  1 By Mike Magee: Wednesday 04 December 2002, 09:38 ;    D CARLY FIORINA, HP's CEO, warned yesterday in an analyst meeting thatC economic uncertainty coupled with no increase in demand meant sales E growth for its coming fiscal year could be as little as two per cent.:F At the same time, Fiorina also re-shuffled her cabinet, promoting Mike? Winkler, the head of operations at HP to become chief marketing  executive at the company.5  > He was in charge of the supply chain at the new HP, and is nowF replaced by Jeff Clarke, who was the chief financial officer at Compaq before the merger.  F At Compaq, Winkler was in charge of dividing the market into PC, Unix,B OpenVMS and Tandem segments. But in its latter days, Compaq seemedD more bent on selling Windows products and its related X86 compatibleF products, rather than the more lucrative "big tin" associated with the other product groups.,  C The move also coincides with a vastly increased emphasis from HP on-- outsourcing more and more of its PC products.   < For example, the Economic News today reports that FIC (First? International Computer) has just won an order from HP to supply0% 100,000 motherboards for HP desktops.e  E And FIC will work with South Korean Trigem and Taiwanese display firmnE Tatung to assemble the HP PCs, which are aimed at the low-end market,C+ being sold through chains such as Wal-Mart.t  D We revealed here yesterday, that Fiorina will address HP's worldwideD staff tomorrow, in a conference to be held at the HP Pavilion in San Jose.a  E Internal documents seen by the INQUIRER reveal that one of HP's goalseC is to bring the costs of making PCs down to the same level as Dell,n@ and to compete aggressively with that firm in the direct market.  C Another document seen by the INQUIRER shows that Fiorina's emphasisn8 appears to be focused on the profitable printers and the not-so-profitable PC market. P  F The very cautious growth figures Fiorina suggested for the fiscal yearF are almost certain to dampen the recent rally we've seen in technology	 stocks.         -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:44:53 GMT,# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>O/ Subject: Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.aJ Message-ID: <FxoH9.264635$MGm1.65231@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:7olruu4r91v8j0qlndcc8fj9e0c3mcmrvr@4ax.com...* > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6539 >S, > HP sees little sign of technology recovery >o+ > Growth could be as little as two per cent  >t2 > By Mike Magee: Wednesday 04 December 2002, 09:38 >r >xF > CARLY FIORINA, HP's CEO, warned yesterday in an analyst meeting thatE > economic uncertainty coupled with no increase in demand meant salesrG > growth for its coming fiscal year could be as little as two per cent.tH > At the same time, Fiorina also re-shuffled her cabinet, promoting MikeA > Winkler, the head of operations at HP to become chief marketingn > executive at the company.  >a@ > He was in charge of the supply chain at the new HP, and is nowH > replaced by Jeff Clarke, who was the chief financial officer at Compaq > before the merger. > H > At Compaq, Winkler was in charge of dividing the market into PC, Unix,D > OpenVMS and Tandem segments. But in its latter days, Compaq seemedF > more bent on selling Windows products and its related X86 compatibleH > products, rather than the more lucrative "big tin" associated with the > other product groups.e    L With Winkler in charge of marketing I'd bet that VMS will see zero marketing budget.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:56:13 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.e/ Message-ID: <3DEE41BB.606D6B00@vl.videotron.ca>    Alan Greig wrote:IH > At the same time, Fiorina also re-shuffled her cabinet, promoting MikeA > Winkler, the head of operations at HP to become chief marketing  > executive at the company.     M Just when we though that HP was becoming serious about VMS. This happens. One < wonders if Winkler is on the Microsoft of HP/Compaq payroll.  H > At Compaq, Winkler was in charge of dividing the market into PC, Unix, > OpenVMS and Tandem segments. r  N And should thus be held responsible for cannabalising Compaq's most profitableH products in favour of money losing ones, which forced Compaq to seek theN merger because it couldn't make a go of it alone. And the guy gets promoted ? / Shouldn't he have followed Curly to  Worldcom ?l  G > Internal documents seen by the INQUIRER reveal that one of HP's goalsmE > is to bring the costs of making PCs down to the same level as Dell, B > and to compete aggressively with that firm in the direct market.  M "making PCs" isn't the big deal. Selling and delivering them is the big magiciM issue where Dell shines. No inventory of built PCs, no dinosaur-era "channel"MM overhead. However, Dell's model doesn't work so well for a multinational firme$ hoping to sell all around the world.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 11:01:37 -0600-+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)2/ Subject: Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.h3 Message-ID: <FXx2zedU5pau@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  b In article <3DEE41BB.606D6B00@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Alan Greig wrote:sI >> At the same time, Fiorina also re-shuffled her cabinet, promoting Mike B >> Winkler, the head of operations at HP to become chief marketing >> executive at the company. >  > O > Just when we though that HP was becoming serious about VMS. This happens. One > > wonders if Winkler is on the Microsoft of HP/Compaq payroll. > I >> At Compaq, Winkler was in charge of dividing the market into PC, Unix,e  >> OpenVMS and Tandem segments.  > P > And should thus be held responsible for cannabalising Compaq's most profitableJ > products in favour of money losing ones, which forced Compaq to seek theP > merger because it couldn't make a go of it alone. And the guy gets promoted ? 1 > Shouldn't he have followed Curly to  Worldcom ?s >     D 	You know.. I wonder if HP Classic HP/UX folks get better treatment.E 	We know HP/UX, Linux and Windows is their future.  But from a moralerI 	standpoint, it would be awful hard to have "us"(1) and "them."(2)  I see D 	that in action every day and it erodes an organization from within.  F 	Platitudes cast show they still love PCs.  And oh by the way, we will> 	be slashing and burning to make money at PCs so don't get too 	comfortable in that division.  ; 	Surely, this (us vs. them) is known and won't be repeated.-   	Yeah, rose-colored glasses.   				Rob2   (1)  HP/UX, Windows, Linux7 (2)  Tandem, VMS, Tru64 (yes, Tru64 is a special case).M   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:58:30 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>P; Subject: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive accessf) Message-ID: <3DEE1815.C96DB057@Omond.net>g   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  . > In article <3DED2C9D.5000807@tsoft-inc.com>,4 >         David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >a; > >> In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,i9 > >>      "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes:h > >>5 > >>>One user brought up an issue with this though...e > >>>iO > >>>On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,hM > >>>this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I dom > >>>this on VMS?M > >t > >s* > > That's a workaround.  Typical of Unix. > > . > > For VMS, it's MOD <username> /FLAG=DISUSER >bF > But this person wants the user to still be able to get onthe machineD > by other means.  I thought DISUSER disabled the account completelyG > regardless of login method.  I know that you can't get in with XDM ift > the account is DISUSERed.  >  > >A6 > > No amount of password cracking will get past that. > >O > >1J > >> How about having the system generate a maximum length random passwordJ > >> and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'll  > >> bet the result is the same. > >o > >vR > > Much better to do specifically what you want to do, not fudge some workaround. > >  >t/ > But what if you lack the same functionality??a  5 VMS allows extremely fine-grained access permissions.a  ? E.g. you want the user to have no interactive access, but allow  all other access ?   $ mc authorize6 UAF> mod billyboy  /nointeractive  /noremote  /network  3 Can even be restricted to certain hours of the day.o  3 I'm surprised no-one else has made this suggestion.w  	 Roy Omondo Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 15:20:17 GMTl, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)? Subject: Re: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive access-5 Message-ID: <asl6fh$s7kik$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>a  ) In article <3DEE1815.C96DB057@omond.net>,:" 	Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: > 7 > VMS allows extremely fine-grained access permissions.y > A > E.g. you want the user to have no interactive access, but allowi > all other access ? >  > $ mc authorize8 > UAF> mod billyboy  /nointeractive  /noremote  /network  ? But I am sure the original poster wanted interactive and remotee> access.  Just not the ability to type a userid and password at the login prompt.f   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 15:32:27 -0000s4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>? Subject: Re: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive access-6 Message-ID: <20021204153227.15420.qmail@nym.alias.net>  5 On Wed, 04 Dec 2002, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:z >Bill Gunshannon wrote:D/ >> In article <3DED2C9D.5000807@tsoft-inc.com>,m5 >>         David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:k >> >< >> >> In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,: >> >>      "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes: >> >> 6 >> >>>One user brought up an issue with this though... >> >>>P >> >>>On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,N >> >>>this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do >> >>>this on VMS? >> > >> >+ >> > That's a workaround.  Typical of Unix.r >> >/ >> > For VMS, it's MOD <username> /FLAG=DISUSER. >>G >> But this person wants the user to still be able to get onthe machineoE >> by other means.  I thought DISUSER disabled the account completelytH >> regardless of login method.  I know that you can't get in with XDM if >> the account is DISUSERed. >> >> >7 >> > No amount of password cracking will get past that.n >> > >> >K >> >> How about having the system generate a maximum length random passwordcK >> >> and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'llt! >> >> bet the result is the same.F >> > >> >G >> > Much better to do specifically what you want to do, not fudge some] >> > workaround. >> > >>0 >> But what if you lack the same functionality?? >c6 >VMS allows extremely fine-grained access permissions. >i@ >E.g. you want the user to have no interactive access, but allow >all other access ?p >l >$ mc authorizet7 >UAF> mod billyboy  /nointeractive  /noremote  /networkd > 4 >Can even be restricted to certain hours of the day. > 4 >I'm surprised no-one else has made this suggestion.  ! Okay, so spoon-feed me please. :)<  G What incantation prevents login with a password, but permits it via SSHD, using public-private keypair authentication?  3 At the moment, Bill's suggestion is the best offer.e  H [Note: I suspect that any solution currently available would prevent theJ user from accessing mail via POP3 - even over a tunnel. Presumably the *ix hack has the same effect?]  G It may have been poorly worded when I originally brought it up, but whyeJ would *any* user ask me to completely disable access to their VMS account? :^)u     Doc. -- p6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net2   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Dec 2002 17:34:47 -0000:- From: "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net>2? Subject: Re: [Change topic] Restricting user interactive accessi6 Message-ID: <20021204173447.18093.qmail@nym.alias.net>  5 NOTE: This message was sent thru a mail2news gateway.h8 No effort was made to verify the identity of the sender.8 --------------------------------------------------------  " [Apologies if this appears twice.]  5 On Wed, 04 Dec 2002, Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:o >Bill Gunshannon wrote: / >> In article <3DED2C9D.5000807@tsoft-inc.com>,c5 >>         David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:u >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:u >> >< >> >> In article <20021203104347.29841.qmail@nym.alias.net>,: >> >>      "Doc.Cypher" <doc_cypher@nym.alias.net> writes: >> >> 6 >> >>>One user brought up an issue with this though... >> >>>P >> >>>On a *ix system they'd ask the sysadmin to disable logins with a password,N >> >>>this being achieved by replacing the password entry with *. How can I do >> >>>this on VMS? >> > >> >+ >> > That's a workaround.  Typical of Unix.  >> >/ >> > For VMS, it's MOD <username> /FLAG=DISUSERr >>G >> But this person wants the user to still be able to get onthe machine-E >> by other means.  I thought DISUSER disabled the account completely-H >> regardless of login method.  I know that you can't get in with XDM if >> the account is DISUSERed. >> >> >7 >> > No amount of password cracking will get past that.4 >> > >> >K >> >> How about having the system generate a maximum length random password)K >> >> and just not tell anyone what it is??  Not exactly the same, but I'llt! >> >> bet the result is the same.f >> > >> >G >> > Much better to do specifically what you want to do, not fudge somet >> > workaround. >> > >>0 >> But what if you lack the same functionality?? >s6 >VMS allows extremely fine-grained access permissions. >n@ >E.g. you want the user to have no interactive access, but allow >all other access ?  >n >$ mc authorizeh7 >UAF> mod billyboy  /nointeractive  /noremote  /network- >-4 >Can even be restricted to certain hours of the day. > 4 >I'm surprised no-one else has made this suggestion.  ! Okay, so spoon-feed me please. :)   G What incantation prevents login with a password, but permits it via SSH-, using public-private keypair authentication?  3 At the moment, Bill's suggestion is the best offer.   H [Note: I suspect that any solution currently available would prevent theJ user from accessing mail via POP3 - even over a tunnel. Presumably the *ix hack has the same effect?]  G It may have been poorly worded when I originally brought it up, but whycJ would *any* user ask me to completely disable access to their VMS account? :^)n     Doc. -- u6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netJ   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.670 ************************                                  