1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 06 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 674       Contents: Re: checksum is not valid 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper 3 Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper  death of alpha on slashdot Re: death of alpha on slashdot Re: death of alpha on slashdot Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature?" Re: Future of Alpha and/or OpenVMS! Re: Good Job in Good Environment!   Gripe: Latest HP OLD HTML format$ Re: Gripe: Latest HP OLD HTML format$ Re: Gripe: Latest HP OLD HTML format Re: Help on VAX/VMS 5.5  Re: Just some information 6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations Re: MTU Tape Utililty ?  Re: MTU Tape Utililty ? > Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003> Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 20030 OT: The New HP Way: World's Cheapest Consultants2 Re: Performance of atomic instructions and locking% Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance ' Re: Problem with monitor files playback  Re: Quert wrt F$SEARCH() Re: Quert wrt F$SEARCH() Re: Quert wrt F$SEARCH()& Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ?C RE: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgrou	p B Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup Re: SoftPC on VMS  Re: TK70 drive bug found :-(( Re: UCX / TCP QIO interface and READVBLK0 Re: VMS Courses in Australia - other than COMPAQ@ Re: VMS73_SYS05 (& VMS731_SYS02) kills dce, pathworks, goldfax ?  Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS5 Re: what could replace VAX-driven DNC tools machines? 5 Re: what could replace VAX-driven DNC tools machines?  XFC question( ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp> [OT] Re: Risks Digest 22.41 (re: Windows 2000 EAL4 evaluation)  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:45:35 -0500! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> " Subject: Re: checksum is not validK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BAB@rlghncst964.usps.gov>    Ram:  A Part of the email you got with your VMS license looks like this:    F (the email is actually a command procedure that you can run to installB  the licenses- this is particularly handy for the layered products@  licenses which are in an email attachment which is 23K long...)  @ (This is for an Alpha, if VAX the first line will be different.)  & $ LICENSE REGISTER OPENVMS-ALPHA     -      /ACTIVITY=A     -1      /AUTHORIZATION=DECUS-USA-xxxxxx-xxxxxx     -       /DATE=27-APR-2002     -      /HARDWARE_ID=xxxxxx     -      /ISSUER=DECUS     -      /OPTIONS=(NO_SHARE)     -      /PRODUCER=DEC     -#      /TERMINATION=27-APR-2002     -       /UNITS=0     - $      /CHECKSUM=1-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx  ! The last line is your checksum.     ; Do a SHOW LICENSE/USAGE and you should see what's there and & what's actually loaded and being used.  > You can @SYS$UPDATE:VMSLICENSE and modify your license if it's already in the database-  D One thing that's not obvious: to clear out something that you don't . want in a particular field, enter a backslash.  E And it won't work unless you have entered all data (everything after  E the equals signs in the example shown above) *exactly* as it appears   in your email.     HTH    WWWebb   Hi,   I I am trying reinstall VMS 7.2 Hobbyist License and when I come to the VMS K License Management Utility, it is asking me for the checksum. I am not sure H what I should enter here. Should I have recieved this info when I got my& Hobbyist kit? I don't seem to have it.  H Any thoughts? How can I apply for a new Hobbyist license? Will I get the required PAKs when I do so?    Thanks,    Ram    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:33:59 +0000 (UTC)6 From: jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net (Jean-loup Gailly)< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper* Message-ID: <asq1v7$4fh$1@home.gailly.net>   Brian Tillman wrote:  K > But unuaf.exe is not among them and your own documentation says that it's ? > needed to turn SYSUAF.DAT into something john.exe can handle.   7 I didn't guess that your problem was with unuaf, sorry. F Just copy john.exe to unuaf.exe. On Unix unuaf is only a link to john.2 I have updated the documentation to clarify this.   	 Jean-loup    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 11:38:36 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>< Subject: Re: Cracking OpenVMS passwords with John the Ripper6 Message-ID: <20021206113836.15015.qmail@nym.alias.net>  K On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net (Jean-loup Gailly) wrote:  >Brian Tillman wrote:  > L >> But unuaf.exe is not among them and your own documentation says that it's@ >> needed to turn SYSUAF.DAT into something john.exe can handle. > 8 >I didn't guess that your problem was with unuaf, sorry.G >Just copy john.exe to unuaf.exe. On Unix unuaf is only a link to john. 3 >I have updated the documentation to clarify this.    G I don't like doing things like this, but wouldn't SET FILE/ENTER do the  same thing?      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 05:11:33 -0800 ( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)# Subject: death of alpha on slashdot < Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0212060511.18e22344@posting.google.com>  G http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/0326217&mode=thread&tid=173    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:51:25 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)' Subject: Re: death of alpha on slashdot L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0612020851290001@user-2ive145.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <c5cf6e8.0212060511.18e22344@posting.google.com>,) baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote:   H >http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/0326217&mode=thread&tid=173  . The level of ignorance over there is stunning.  E Are those the sort of folks who are being hired to program and manage H today's wonderful "industry standard" and linux IT solutions?  If so, we are in a whole heap of trouble.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 07:01:51 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: death of alpha on slashdot 3 Message-ID: <XF4IlKYk4itl@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-0612020851290001@user-2ive145.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > > In article <c5cf6e8.0212060511.18e22344@posting.google.com>,+ > baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote:  > I >>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/0326217&mode=thread&tid=173  > 0 > The level of ignorance over there is stunning. > G > Are those the sort of folks who are being hired to program and manage J > today's wonderful "industry standard" and linux IT solutions?  If so, we! > are in a whole heap of trouble.   F No, those are just the Linux folks.  The "industry standard" folks are. still trying to get their web browser working.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:00:05 +0100 (MET)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>' Subject: Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? 6 Message-ID: <200212060800.JAA19781@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrotes:   >>> H $ pipe dir/nohead/notrail sy*log*n.com,sy*gin.com | sort/nodupl sys$pipe
 sys$output <<<   B Thanks for this solution. But OpenVMS engineering should add a new- qualifier /NODUPLEX to the DIRECTORY command.    Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 01:14:35 -0800 3 From: keith.mandle@connectfree.co.uk (Keith Mandle) ' Subject: Re: DIRECTORY: bug or feature? = Message-ID: <b6da468e.0212060114.5de2b593@posting.google.com>   E The required files can be listed without duplication by the following  two commands: -   $ $ dir *a*,*b* /exclude=(*a*b*,*b*a*) $ dir *a*b*, *b*a*  F The first command will list any files with names containing either 'a'? or 'b', but not both; the second will list any files with names  containing both 'a' and 'b'.   Cheers,    Keith.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 14:05:35 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>+ Subject: Re: Future of Alpha and/or OpenVMS ) Message-ID: <3DF0AEAF.18B1F995@127.0.0.1>   
 val wrote:L > 1) Can someone provide pointers to where HP's plans for continuing OpenVMS > development are summarized? L > 2) Can someone provide pointers to where the end of life roadmap for Alpha > might be found? G > 3) Would anyone care to share opinions on what the real., most likely 8 > end-game will be for either or both Alpha and OpenVMS?  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm  E No endgame for OpenVMS. The powerpoint is better because the speakers 0 notes pages are populated with more information.   --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 05:30:57 -0800 - From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) * Subject: Re: Good Job in Good Environment!= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212060530.66e139b3@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DEEAE22.1EE89867@fsi.net>... > Jason O'Donnell wrote: > >  > > All, > > J > > H&R Block has an OVMS Admin position available in Columbus, Ohio.  See< > > our website or Monster.  They are finally taking away my& > > responsibility as backup sysadmin. > > 4 > > It is a great environment here!  Great benefits! > 7 > Any ballpark on what the job pays? Is relo available?   ? The range is very wide, 30K.  The midpoint is in the mid-60s.     F Relocation assistance was not budgeted for this position.  However, if: you are the right person HR might be able to do soemthing.  " The work environment here is tops!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:00:35 +1030 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> ) Subject: Gripe: Latest HP OLD HTML format 3 Message-ID: <asok7b$56o$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>   H The format of some HTML documents in the OnLine Documentation kits, e.g.  ?    http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6346/6346PRO.HTM   I leaves a lot to be desired.  Bundling as one huge file can make transfer  I times slow (even on an intranet, but certainly on the Internet), browser  K rendering much more latent (especially on VMS Mozilla but also on PC-based  K browsers), makes the browser chew up scads of memory holding that document  I in a page, and the printing of just a section of a manual difficult.  It  H also strikes me as slightly counter the idea of hyperlinked information $ being organised as managable chunks.  L On the up side, the new HP formatting of these (IMHO) is a vast improvement I on the cluttered layout and colouring of the previous Compaq editions of   these documents.  7 Perhaps a melding of the new layout and smaller chunks?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:29:21 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Gripe: Latest HP OLD HTML format L Message-ID: <rdeininger-0512021829220001@user-2ive1ar.dialup.mindspring.com>  ? In article <asok7b$56o$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>, Mark Daniel $ <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote:  I >The format of some HTML documents in the OnLine Documentation kits, e.g.  > @ >   http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6346/6346PRO.HTM >  >leaves a lot to be desired.    D You did send your comments to HP at the listed email address, right?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 05:47:31 -0800, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com>- Subject: Re: Gripe: Latest HP OLD HTML format 4 Message-ID: <asq9pk$tq8ka$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  < "Mark Daniel" <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message- news:asoqhd$6ab$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au...  > Robert Deininger wrote: C > > In article <asok7b$56o$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>, Mark Daniel ( > > <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote: > >  > > L > >>The format of some HTML documents in the OnLine Documentation kits, e.g. > >>B > >>  http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/731FINAL/6346/6346PRO.HTM > >> > >>leaves a lot to be desired.  > >  > > H > > You did send your comments to HP at the listed email address, right? >  > Of course (not)!  K Well, I had sent a complaint to the listed address a while ago, but I never  received a reply.    Jim    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:28:35 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>   Subject: Re: Help on VAX/VMS 5.5/ Message-ID: <asqmo3$i96$1@helle.btinternet.com>   I > > "Rohit Prasad" <rohit.prasad@tatainfotech-ncc.com> schreef in bericht J > > news:KOEFJLDGINJGFMANNGEACEBFCBAA.rohit.prasad@tatainfotech-ncc.com...J > > > Can somebody please let me know where I can find tutorial/manual for > > VAX/VMS I > > > 5.5. I saw some documents at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ but  they > > are  > > > all for VMS 7.x. > > >  > > > Please help. > > > 
 <big snip>  K In addition to what's already been said, if you should happen to find or be I offered a set of "MicroVMS" manuals, give them a try. (Maybe a kind local  reader has a spare set?).   I MicroVMS was a short-lived repackaging of VMS, a little earlier than V5.5 J (V4.7??), released in an attempt to widen the perceived market for VMS; byF that time the VMS docset was bigger than the computer, which was a bitK silly. One of the few differences between MicroVMS and "the real thing" was F a completely different approach to documentation. I liked the MicroVMSL manuals a lot; they covered commonly used stuff in task-oriented layout in aC small number of small binders. For some things you still can't beat I hardcopy, but I'm not aware of a modern equivalent of these docs. Nothing J much in the docs will be obsolete, some new features will have been added," but they'll be in the online HELP.  	 good luck  john   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:39:19 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> " Subject: Re: Just some information' Message-ID: <3DF0C4A7.E6E194FE@vcu.edu>   $ No, a CP/M powered desktop.... ;-D    C actually, my ole VT180 Robin only locked up on me once in the three F years of heavy use I put on it when I had it...  And, of course it wasB when I was showing it off to my boss as a crashless machine...  go	 figure...    Jim    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Sue Skonetski wrote:
 > > [snip]" > > ok I made up the following one > > I > > 11. I was just envisioning a computer that you did not have to reboot  > % > Oh, an OpenVMS powered desktop? ;-)  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:40:05 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations / Message-ID: <3DEFB9A3.D6C2255A@vl.videotron.ca>    Brian Tillman wrote:K > With some mail clients, the message store is on a network device and thus L > gets backed up daily.  The tapes then get retained for the specified time.  N So building a list of emails sent/received from backup would be extremely timeI consuming since you'd have to take every backup and elimited messages you I already have from a previous backup and only take the new messages. Ouch.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 23:08:43 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations I Message-ID: <%%QH9.232573$oRV.73213@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ) "GcE" <Everhart@gce.com> wrote in message % news:aso2lj$3ac$1@bob.news.rcn.net...  > Yes.. K > Heavy outgoing traffic "should" be a better indicator than heavy incoming K > traffic. I don't really much care what people bring in (apart from worms,  virii I > etc.) but when an encrypted tunnel is in use, all you can see is that a  log L > of something went in or out. I suppose a smart internal thief might invest inE > a USB disk or some such, that fits into a pocket. I've noticed that 
 relativelyJ > tiny disks have hit the 40GB size range already. It just gets harder and% > harder to protect sensitive info...     K To a certain extent, X-terminals and the like are a prefered way to compute @ for many users - at least as far as IT is concerned, vis. virii,G configuration, data security, etc...,  or a stripped down, locked-down, 5 low-end linux box. That's all most users really need.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:54:36 -05005 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> ? Subject: RE: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations O Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D528A4DD@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>   J yep, having been there and lived thru this on both and All-in-1 and MSMail system.... fun fun fun   -----Original Message-----8 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] ) Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 3:40 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations      Brian Tillman wrote:G > With some mail clients, the message store is on a network device and  B > thus gets backed up daily.  The tapes then get retained for the  > specified time.   I So building a list of emails sent/received from backup would be extremely J time consuming since you'd have to take every backup and elimited messagesG you already have from a previous backup and only take the new messages.  Ouch.     I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 10:48:50 -0600 . From: frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large)? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations 3 Message-ID: <rCZl6x$$OfFy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3DEFBAB8.28748635@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > GcE wrote:Q >> About the only handle you have on someone using an encrypted tunnel is traffic T >> analysis. That is, if someone is connected an extraordinary amount of the time toN >> one site and perhaps sending an unusually large amount of traffic, it might >> indicate something is wrong.  > O > Do companies still think they can measure how long a customer is connected to P > a site ? I know of one company who fired an employee because their logs showedK > he was constantly connected to an external site. They had no clue on what  > their logs really meant. > O > Hint: you have a web page that automatically refreshes every 5 minutes ( such L > as www.newswire.ca, select todays's new items and the blooy page refreshesH > before you have time to read it all). Then, you put that window in theM > background while you do real work that is not internet related. But low and N > behold, the corporate logs show that you are constantly accessing that page.  G 	Apparently mine does.  They recently emailed a policy around that was  ( IMO very draconian.  In brief it stated:   no instant message programs . no hotmail, yahoo mail or any other email site3 no using websites to monitor stocks or current news  no non-work-related websites ALL network traffic is logged  ALL email is logged A Violators will be terminated (says nothing about a warning first) 6 Management will not be allowed to speak on your behalf  I 	Now I do agree with parts of the policy, like the IM programs.  They're  N a security risk.  The part that bugs me is the penalty for violations, sounds O like instant termination, no excuses, no questions.  I didn't think they would  M do that, but now some of you are saying you know people who've been fired in  ) this manner, and it makes me worry again. H 	I know of a few coworkers who route their work email through AOL email M because they travel alot.  Or maybe they prefer AOL's interface, who knows?   P But I asked one of them about doing that with this new policy, and his reply to O me was "they can bite me".  Is he going to be terminated if they catch up with   him?E 	If you get fired for this, will prospective employers see this when  > they call to verify your work history, and refuse to hire you?? 	It's a huge, nation-wide corporation.  I can just imagine the  J department we have tucked away somewhere responsible for eyeballing these  network logs every day....   --    - Sharon, lurker at Large% http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jcwoman    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:29:04 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations I Message-ID: <Q%5I9.239681$oRV.51846@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   ; "Lurker at Large" <frey@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:rCZl6x$$OfFy@eisner.encompasserve.org... : > In article <3DEFBAB8.28748635@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei) <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > > GcE wrote:K > >> About the only handle you have on someone using an encrypted tunnel is  traffic J > >> analysis. That is, if someone is connected an extraordinary amount of the time to J > >> one site and perhaps sending an unusually large amount of traffic, it might ! > >> indicate something is wrong.  > > D > > Do companies still think they can measure how long a customer is connected toK > > a site ? I know of one company who fired an employee because their logs  showedH > > he was constantly connected to an external site. They had no clue on what > > their logs really meant. > > J > > Hint: you have a web page that automatically refreshes every 5 minutes ( suchD > > as www.newswire.ca, select todays's new items and the blooy page	 refreshes J > > before you have time to read it all). Then, you put that window in theK > > background while you do real work that is not internet related. But low  and J > > behold, the corporate logs show that you are constantly accessing that page.  > G > Apparently mine does.  They recently emailed a policy around that was * > IMO very draconian.  In brief it stated: >  > no instant message programs 0 > no hotmail, yahoo mail or any other email site5 > no using websites to monitor stocks or current news  > no non-work-related websites > ALL network traffic is logged  > ALL email is logged C > Violators will be terminated (says nothing about a warning first) 8 > Management will not be allowed to speak on your behalf > I > Now I do agree with parts of the policy, like the IM programs.  They're H > a security risk.  The part that bugs me is the penalty for violations, soundsJ > like instant termination, no excuses, no questions.  I didn't think they would K > do that, but now some of you are saying you know people who've been fired  in+ > this manner, and it makes me worry again. H > I know of a few coworkers who route their work email through AOL emailF > because they travel alot.  Or maybe they prefer AOL's interface, who knows?H > But I asked one of them about doing that with this new policy, and his reply toK > me was "they can bite me".  Is he going to be terminated if they catch up  with > him?E > If you get fired for this, will prospective employers see this when @ > they call to verify your work history, and refuse to hire you?? > It's a huge, nation-wide corporation.  I can just imagine the K > department we have tucked away somewhere responsible for eyeballing these  > network logs every day....  H They wouldn't 'eyeball' the logs. They'd have a rule coded and when theyK find your co-worker had logged on to AOL it would automatically sent a copy I of the 'evidence' into the personnel record of the individual and via the G magic of 'straight-thru-processing', automatically invoke a method that L issued the pink slip and cancel his/her medical benefits. Why automatically?A Because rules are rules and with reduced headcount, especially in C non-revenue areas (except Corporate Legal), nobody would be left to 1 'exception process' something like this manually.   D When that person goes to get a job elsewhere and the prospective newL employer calls to check, the firing company will look into their records andD see that the person was fired 'for cause' and communicate that back.  I It wouldn't matter one iota that your co-worker was using AOL to retrieve K work-related stuff if the original 'rule' didn't take things like that into K account. Once a rule is coded, how often is it going to be looked at to see $ if it is a reasonable or valid rule?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:04:06 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>  Subject: Re: MTU Tape Utililty ?& Message-ID: <3DF0BC66.2030804@Free.fr>  % is ok with Netscape 7 / Mac OS X 10.2 ) Url is ftp://www.decus.org/pub/lib/v00191    D.  
 P.Lj a crit:  >  > Hi,  > 3 > Can't locate the MTU Tape Utility, used to be on: > > http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/v00191.html > ! > The FTP-button does not open...  > 4 > Anyone know were MTU (with sources) can be found ? >  > /P.Lj  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 15:29:33 GMT + From: "P.Lj" <plj@NOSPAMbyron.ext.telia.se>   Subject: Re: MTU Tape Utililty ?1 Message-ID: <xn3I9.312$FF4.17766@newsb.telia.net>    Bonjour Didier,   ? I managed to get it by ftp-client only at: ftp://ftp.decus.org, + neither Mozilla or IExploder worked, Mrci!    /P.Lj        Didier Morandi wrote: ' > is ok with Netscape 7 / Mac OS X 10.2 + > Url is ftp://www.decus.org/pub/lib/v00191  >  > D. >  > P.Lj a crit:  >  >> >> Hi, >>4 >> Can't locate the MTU Tape Utility, used to be on:? >> http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/v00191.html  >>" >> The FTP-button does not open... >>5 >> Anyone know were MTU (with sources) can be found ?  >> >> /P.Lj >> >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 02 08:50:13 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) G Subject: Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003 ) Message-ID: <AmMOrmIi1vM$@elias.decus.ch>   m In article <HvzH9.12305$Q71.1423@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:  > < > "Jason O'Donnell" <jodonnell@hrblock.com> wrote in message9 > news:9059bf6b.0212040440.7c3b20d2@posting.google.com... C >> oliver.becker@alba-software.com (Oliver becker) wrote in message ; > news:<e8a0f3ac.0212030813.4e37d796@posting.google.com>... F >> > Alba Software have some new exciting OpenVMS contract developmentJ >> > positions starting Q1 2003, predominantly based in continental Europe. >> > - Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Munich. >> >D >> > We are interested in contractors with the the following skills; >> >( >> > Analyst Programmers/Developers with >> > >> > OpenVMS >> > SQL >> > C /C++  >> > DCL >> > Oracle Rdb - optional >> >G >> > As these are contract positions we can only submit candidates with  >> > current EU work permits.  >> >* >> > For more information, please contact; >> > >> > Oliver Becker >> > Alba Software$ >> > oliver.becker@alba-software.com >> > (UK) +44 (0)20 7643 2211  >>0 >> So what does it take to get a EU work permit? > N > If you are 2 generations or less removed from the UK, you may be able to getL > residency/citizenship via a paternal linkage (I think). Thereafter work in; > the EU is not a problem. I stand to be corrected on this.  >    <cynical_mode>  A Not necessary. Simply book a holidays in a place called Sangatte, ? France. Throw away your passport and all identity papers, claim 2 asylum because you come from an oppressive regime,= and you can get a UK  work visa valid for 4 years, or a bribe  of up to 2000 Euros to go home.   = Many are undoubtedly economic rather than political refugees.   B This advice may be a little too late, as they are closing Sangatte down.    </cynical_mode>    See   * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2544883.stm   H "The first of about 1,200 immigrants from the Sangatte refugee camp haveN arrived in Britain, under a deal to close the centre at the end of the month.   L The group of 40 Iraqi Kurds and two Afghan families smiled and waved as they8 began their journeys to centres in Sheffield and London.  J They have been given four-year work visas allowing them to find employment	 legally."    ...   L "They will be offered temporary accommodation for three months and help with" language training and job hunting.  G Once the work visas run out those who fear being returned to their home   countries can apply for asylum."   ...   K "The remaining 3,600 asylum seekers at the camp will be offered up to 2,000 P euros (GBP 1360) to return home or will be able to apply for political asylum in France"   G Now hang on a moment. When I was last unemployed in the UK, I got zero, H zilch, gar nichts, absolument rien help in finding a new job. ConverselyF it appeared at the time that they did everything they could to make it% impossible for me to find one myself.    --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:00:19 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>G Subject: Re: New Exciting OpenVMS Contract Development Positions - 2003 & Message-ID: <3DF0BB83.9030007@Free.fr>   ah ah ah :-)    D.   Paul Sture a crit:    ../.. I > Now hang on a moment. When I was last unemployed in the UK, I got zero, J > zilch, gar nichts, absolument rien help in finding a new job. ConverselyH > it appeared at the time that they did everything they could to make it' > impossible for me to find one myself.  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:29:47 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) 9 Subject: OT: The New HP Way: World's Cheapest Consultants ; Message-ID: <%dZH9.123966$8D.3354231@twister.austin.rr.com> ) Keywords: forbes,hpq,cheapest,consultants   :    http://www.forbes.com/home/2002/12/05/cz_qh_1205hp.html;    Forbes.com: The New HP Way: World's Cheapest Consultants      /   "The New HP Way: World's Cheapest Consultants '    Quentin Hardy, 12.05.02, 11:26 AM ET   ?    NEW YORK - Tech giant Hewlett-Packard has seen the future of F    technology consulting. It's on the other side of the globe and it's    really, really cheap.  G    "We're trying to move everything we can offshore," HP Services chief I    Ann Livermore told Wall Street analysts at a meeting Wednesday. "We'rehH    aggressively realigning our resources." Short term, that means addingI    to the software and services personnel HP (nyse: HPQ - news - people )lH    already has in India. Further out, HP expects China to also turn into    a major consulting center.e  H    The plan addresses a trend toward lower-priced consulting that's beenI    hurting HP. The company's $3.1 billion fourth-quarter services revenuesF    (total fourth-quarter revenue was just over $18 billion) was off 3%I    from a year before. Consulting and integration revenue was the weakest G    part of services, down 17% on the year. Livermore, with the blessingoF    of Chief Executive Carly Fiorina, is betting that HP can both lowerH    its costs and damage industry leader IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people )3    by slashing services prices with cheaper bodies.e  F    As if the high-priced, oversupplied consulting industry didn't haveD    enough to worry about. The field has suffered during the past twoA    years' downturn in technology spending. How bad has it gotten?r  H    PricewaterhouseCoopers, which almost sold its PwC consulting businessE    to HP two years ago for $18 billion, managed to finally unload its)G    concern to IBM this year for just $3.5 billion. IBM added the 30,000MF    consultants to its Global Services Business in an effort to smotherD    consultancies like EDS (nyse: EDS - news - people ) and AccentureD    (nyse: ACU - news - people ). Competition remains fierce, too: AsI    Livermore pointed out, a laid-off consultant isn't like a factory thatgG    gets mothballed during a recession--he's still out there looking for     business.  >    "The oversupply doesn't go away," she said, "consulting andF    integration is going through a tremendous transition, with constant    price pressure.".  I    According to Jurgen Rottler, vice president of marketing, strategy andmC    alliances at HP Services, HP will grow in India, building on thedH    "several thousand" services people the company already employs there.G    "In an ideal world," he said, "you'd migrate as much as you possiblyg    could to India."   G    Many of HP's Web applications for Microsoft's (nasdaq: MSFT - news -iH    people ) .Net initiative will be written in India, Rottler predicted.A    HP and Microsoft recently announced HP would be a prime globalaE    integrator for .Net, a "Web services" move to put more interactivec    software on the Internet.  G    HP figures a good high-end programmer in India costs about $20,000 a A    year, about a quarter the U.S. cost. And things could get even I    cheaper. "We see China gaining on India about three or four years fromn9    now," said Rottler. HP is also developing staff there.Q  E    HP stands to have plenty of company developing the Indian serviceseH    industry, however. Already, local firms such as the Tata Group (whichH    is traded on the Bombay Stock Exchange), Infosys (nasdaq: INFY - newsH    - people ) and Satyam (nyse: SAY - news - people ) have boosted their@    software and consulting arms. Microsoft's recent $400 millionG    investment in the country, building on a strong programming presence4G    already there, is designed to boost education, business partnershipsn    and software development."3    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:30:59 -0800 " From: Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>; Subject: Re: Performance of atomic instructions and lockingc+ Message-ID: <3DEFE1B3.2020905@telocity.com>g  & --------------070206000606000006020206; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowedA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit-  F When the Wildfire was introduced they found that using spinlocks in a I NUMA architecture was a problem for heavily used spinlocks.  The CPUs in PD the same QBB where the memory was was able to get the spinlock more I often than a CPU on a different QBB.  I think to solve this problem they xI had to come up with a queueing mechanism instead of a spinlock.  I don't hJ know the exact details but this may be applicable to your problem as well.   RegardsT   Cass Witkowski   Steve Bainbridge wrote:   b >Per Schrder <pesc@bredband.net> wrote in message news:<u5vH9.15521$%2.411@news1.bredband.com>... >    >tE >>Maybe you are spinning to much! If you have a single spinlock with nD >>high contention, there is a fairly high probability that you will G >>take a critical lock and be preempted, forcing all other proceses to  E >>spin away their timeslices. I suggest you count how many times you e >>spin to get a feeling for it.U >>     >> >s= >It's quite possible that I am spinning too much. But becauseeB >performance is paramount I would rather spin (for a little while)E >rather than say hibernate and give up the processor. I feel that theiC >time spinning would be less than the time context switching (but I 3 >probably need to do some analysis to verify this).  >  >    >SI >>I don't understand exactly what your data structure is trying to store .F >>and what operations you want to support, so it is difficult to give H >>suggestions. (Why do you have to use hashing, for example? How do you : >>handle hash collisions? What are the real requirements?) >>     >> >sD >The API acts as an Index (to a database), with functions to add newC >records, delete records and lookup entries. There are two possiblerF >keys (SIC and RIC) to the database which are strings (< 30 charactersE >each). These strings are hashed to produce an index. The data (a fewt@ >housekeeping variables and the offset to the actual data in theF >database) for each record lies in an array which is reference by thisD >index. A linked list of entries lie at each index to allow for hash	 >clashes.0 > F >The real requirements is to provide functions to manipulate the indexE >and provide this mapping from SIC and RIC to database offset as fast3
 >as possible.y >l >  e > F >>Must you have a single lock? Could you have one lock per hash entry? >>     >> >TF >There is no firm requirement to having a single lock, although havingC >a lock per entry would dramatically increase the size of the index G >data structure. There are about 1 million index entries. Also, becausefD >an area of memory either side of a lock is also locked down (by the@ >processor/OS) when the lock is locked this may slow things down >un-expectedly.d >  >  g >iF >>When several CPUs are involved, avoid hot-spots, where several CPUs F >>access the same cache line. Try to allow two CPUs to do their stuff @ >>simultaneously without having to access the same cache lines. 6 >>(Requires that you don't use a single lock/counter.) >>     >> >r >OKa >  >  y >o >>Why can't you use pthreads?a >>     >> > D >pthreads is not that efficient and anyway it only allows threads to& >syncronize. I need processes to sync. >2 >  3 >1A >>An alternative would be to design a data structure that allows rF >>concurrent lock-free operations. This would eliminate all spinning, E >>and could allow manipulations from AST routines (do you use ASTs)? nH >>This is somewhat complex and requires a thorough understanding of the 
 >>problem. >>     >> >@F >The index is a standalone API so I can implement any data structure I< >like. Perhaps it may be best to design it to avoid locking.F >Some initial analysis seems to suggest that I'm spending about 20% of, >processor time in the lock/unlock routines. >  >  g > 	 >>Regardsd >>/Per Schrdert >>http://developer.mimer.com >>     >>    & --------------070206000606000006020206) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit@  ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">h <html> <head>I   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">0   <title></title>1 </head>. <body>J When the Wildfire was introduced they found that using spinlocks in a NUMAQ architecture was a problem for heavily used spinlocks. &nbsp;The CPUs in the sameaK QBB where the memory was was able to get the spinlock more often than a CPUtP on a different QBB. &nbsp;I think to solve this problem they had to come up withP a queueing mechanism instead of a spinlock. &nbsp;I don't know the exact details7 but this may be applicable to your problem as well.<br>e <br> Regards<br>h <br> Cass Witkowski <br>s <br> Steve Bainbridge wrote:<br>n <blockquote type="cite"e;  cite="mida48f6f51.0212051212.38eca648@posting.google.com">-  <pre wrap="">Per Schr&ouml;der <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pesc@bredband.net">&lt;pesc@bredband.net&gt;</a> wrote in message news:<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:u5vH9.15521$%2.411@news1.bredband.com">&lt;u5vH9.15521$%2.411@news1.bredband.com&gt;</a>...n   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">T     <pre wrap="">Maybe you are spinning to much! If you have a single spinlock with B high contention, there is a fairly high probability that you will E take a critical lock and be preempted, forcing all other proceses to  C spin away their timeslices. I suggest you count how many times you : spin to get a feeling for it. 
     </pre>   </blockquote>6   <pre wrap=""><!---->< It's quite possible that I am spinning too much. But becauseA performance is paramount I would rather spin (for a little while)(D rather than say hibernate and give up the processor. I feel that theB time spinning would be less than the time context switching (but I2 probably need to do some analysis to verify this).      </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">X     <pre wrap="">I don't understand exactly what your data structure is trying to store D and what operations you want to support, so it is difficult to give F suggestions. (Why do you have to use hashing, for example? How do you 8 handle hash collisions? What are the real requirements?)
     </pre>   </blockquote>z   <pre wrap=""><!---->C The API acts as an Index (to a database), with functions to add neweB records, delete records and lookup entries. There are two possibleH keys (SIC and RIC) to the database which are strings (&lt; 30 charactersD each). These strings are hashed to produce an index. The data (a few? housekeeping variables and the offset to the actual data in theeE database) for each record lies in an array which is reference by thisdC index. A linked list of entries lie at each index to allow for hash  clashes.  E The real requirements is to provide functions to manipulate the index D and provide this mapping from SIC and RIC to database offset as fast as possible.     </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">U     <pre wrap="">Must you have a single lock? Could you have one lock per hash entry?m
     </pre>   </blockquote>7   <pre wrap=""><!---->E There is no firm requirement to having a single lock, although havingoB a lock per entry would dramatically increase the size of the indexF data structure. There are about 1 million index entries. Also, becauseC an area of memory either side of a lock is also locked down (by the ? processor/OS) when the lock is locked this may slow things downg un-expectedly.  .   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">U     <pre wrap="">When several CPUs are involved, avoid hot-spots, where several CPUs iD access the same cache line. Try to allow two CPUs to do their stuff > simultaneously without having to access the same cache lines. 4 (Requires that you don't use a single lock/counter.)
     </pre>   </blockquote>:   <pre wrap=""><!----> OK  a   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">,     <pre wrap="">Why can't you use pthreads?
     </pre>   </blockquote>e   <pre wrap=""><!----> hC pthreads is not that efficient and anyway it only allows threads tos% syncronize. I need processes to sync.h     </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">P     <pre wrap="">An alternative would be to design a data structure that allows D concurrent lock-free operations. This would eliminate all spinning, C and could allow manipulations from AST routines (do you use ASTs)?  F This is somewhat complex and requires a thorough understanding of the  problem.
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->E The index is a standalone API so I can implement any data structure Ih; like. Perhaps it may be best to design it to avoid locking.nE Some initial analysis seems to suggest that I'm spending about 20% of + processor time in the lock/unlock routines.e  w   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <pre wrap="">Regards /Per Schr&ouml;dera <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://developer.mimer.com">http://developer.mimer.com</a>t
     </pre>   </blockquote>-
 </blockquote>- <br> </body>1 </html>e  ( --------------070206000606000006020206--   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Dec 2002 21:46:27 GMTs& From: Rick Jones <foo@bar.baz.invalid>. Subject: Re: poor Gigabit Ethernet performance* Message-ID: <asohfj$kf9$1@web1.cup.hp.com>  ' Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote:lD > Yesterday, I was a the www.netperf.org site to get netperf for SunC > solaris and OpenVMS. For Solaris I did found (I hope so), but notaE > for OpenVMS. Is there any chance to build a version for OpenVMS, ora? > use netperf any specials? Is there any installation guide for-C > netperf (UNIX and Windows)? I did not found them. I am not fit inaB > UNIX or Windows. So I do need a clear instruction to install the > netperf tool.   E Typically folks compile their own copies - there are some precompilednF binaries stored on ftp.cup.hp.com, but I suspect there are indeed none there for OpenVMS.  F I myself do not have access to an OpenVMS system on which to compile aF copy of netperf, but if someone out there does have a compilation, I'd6 be more than happy to put it out on the download site.  F As far as installation instructions, at http://www.netperf.org/, underF the "Netperf Training" link there should be (iirc) a slightly old, butD still reasonable copy of the manual. The manual (netperf.ps) is also$ included in the source distribution.   happy benchmarking,r  
 rick jones  E PS - there is a netperf-talk@netperf.org mailling list - subscription - requests to netperf-talk-request@netperf.org.    --  / "Hey! Hey! SUV! The gas you waste empowers me!">?                            - overheard at an al Qaeda pep-rally.F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)A feel free to post, OR email to raj in cup.hp.com  but NOT BOTH...s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:31:50 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: Problem with monitor files playback) Message-ID: <3DF098B6.D428A7FC@127.0.0.1>o   Wojciech Czaplinski wrote:- > > > $ monitor system/all  /input=FILE.DAT;3k > > >a > > > I get following error: > > >r> > > > %MONITOR-E-PREMEOF, premature end-of-file on /INPUT file > > G > > Check you are using /BEGINNING and /ENDING because *todays* date is F > > assumed, I guess the file you're looking at is a date in the past. >  > OK, what should I do then?  H Well, I don't know when you recorded the files, but lets say for example< you recorded the files on MONDAY this week, 2nd of December.  
 Command is  	 $ MONITORfI SYS/ALL/INPUT=file.dat/beginning=2-dec-2002:09:00/ending=2-dec-2002:17:00n  H HELP on /BEGINNING and /ENDING should have this syntax. Change the times@ (24 hour format) to suit. Also look at the HELP on /INTERVAL andG /NODISPLAY and /SUMMARY in MONITOR. You can make MONITOR do quite a lot F of work for you, you don't necessarily have to sit watching a display,B although watching instantaneous conditions can be revealing to the, performance you're experiencing on a system.   HTH4 -- u? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:39:51 -00009 From: "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> ! Subject: Re: Quert wrt F$SEARCH() 3 Message-ID: <37icnTosrpg0WnKgXTWcog@brightview.com>   F "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message9 news:5a25c99f4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk...n4 > In message <N2SdncfUCffs7nOgXTWc2Q@brightview.com>F >           "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote: >dD > > I have a command file which is supposed to check a directory for	 existenceo > > of a particular file.- > >-L > > The device on which the directory exists is only mounted to two nodes inC > > the 3-node cluster (including the 3rd node is not an option...)y > >tK > > Node 1/2 operate as a master/standby pair, whereby if the standby losesi2 > > heartbeats from the master, it will take over. > > J > > A process produces files in the common(ish) directory on the live side	 > > only.f > >eK > > The command file uses F$SEARCH() first of all on node 1, to see whetheruL > > or not any files have been created;  if it gets "an error", then it will4 > > attempt to use the F$SEARCH() lexical on node 2. >nL > I'm a bit confised here. Are you saying that the command file is being run5 > on node 1, or that node 1 is used in the file spec?@  G Sorry, made sense to me at the time when I wrote, because I knew what Ii meant...  K Box in a different cluster elsewhere in the network is doing the F$SEARCH() % on node 1 of this three-node cluster.e      , > If this is so, then I would use a check onI > f$getsyi("node1","cluster_member") first. Not true indicates node down.   C Of course, if I was doing this on node 3 of the first cluster, thissF would suffice.  Not sure if Rob's suggestion would work either, as I'm? not sure if you can specify (e.g.) F$GETDVI("NODE::$DEVICE:")*.s  I A different cluster is doing the F$SEARCH because of historical (I prefertG in this context, the use of "hysterical") proxies;  getting approval toBH add new ones to the hundreds of machines involved, so that the UIC underE which the executables runs, would be even more fun that trying to getfI $small_amount_of_money authorised for a licence for essential software onv
 my PeeCee.  $ Back to the drawing board I guess...    I *At home, and although there's a VLC4000 under the keyboard, I don't havelE the heart to start it up, knowing all the stuff I need to do tomorrow5F which will have to be put off due to last-minute "oh, we arranged thisI course months ago, but we're only telling people about it now;  and we'll2D be wasting money if nobody goes on it, so you all are".  Oops, for a  minute I thought this was ASR...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:51:03 GMTO9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>t! Subject: Re: Quert wrt F$SEARCH() ? Message-ID: <0eec49a04b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>R  2 In message <37icnTosrpg0WnKgXTWcog@brightview.com>D           "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:  H > "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message; > news:5a25c99f4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk...i6 > > In message <N2SdncfUCffs7nOgXTWc2Q@brightview.com>H > >           "covendotartdottalk21dotcom" <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote: > > F > > > I have a command file which is supposed to check a directory for > existence  > > > of a particular file.t > > >nN > > > The device on which the directory exists is only mounted to two nodes inE > > > the 3-node cluster (including the 3rd node is not an option...)n > > >iM > > > Node 1/2 operate as a master/standby pair, whereby if the standby losesi4 > > > heartbeats from the master, it will take over. > > >rL > > > A process produces files in the common(ish) directory on the live side > > > only.c > > > M > > > The command file uses F$SEARCH() first of all on node 1, to see whetherfN > > > or not any files have been created;  if it gets "an error", then it will6 > > > attempt to use the F$SEARCH() lexical on node 2. > >lN > > I'm a bit confised here. Are you saying that the command file is being run7 > > on node 1, or that node 1 is used in the file spec?c > I > Sorry, made sense to me at the time when I wrote, because I knew what Id
 > meant... > M > Box in a different cluster elsewhere in the network is doing the F$SEARCH()8' > on node 1 of this three-node cluster.e >  >  > . > > If this is so, then I would use a check onK > > f$getsyi("node1","cluster_member") first. Not true indicates node down.> > E > Of course, if I was doing this on node 3 of the first cluster, thistH > would suffice.  Not sure if Rob's suggestion would work either, as I'mA > not sure if you can specify (e.g.) F$GETDVI("NODE::$DEVICE:")*.s > K > A different cluster is doing the F$SEARCH because of historical (I preferoI > in this context, the use of "hysterical") proxies;  getting approval tocJ > add new ones to the hundreds of machines involved, so that the UIC underG > which the executables runs, would be even more fun that trying to getfK > $small_amount_of_money authorised for a licence for essential software onm > my PeeCee. > & > Back to the drawing board I guess...  G OK. This sounds like a case for using SYSMAN, but see another thread oneI using SYSMAN between Decnet nodes not in the dame cluster, and passwords.   F I don't have systems to test on, but I think you can get SYSMAN to use@ proxies - I just don't remember how. Or, as suggested elsewhere, submit/remote.  B SYSMAN may hang if the remote node isn't there (not sure, try it).  H Submit/remote gives a testable error. (The file must exist on the remoteL machine, and most submit qualifiers are not allowed. I wonder, SUBMIT/REMOTEH NODE1::NL: ??? Check for "unreachable", just as a "Node is up" test ???)   >  > K > *At home, and although there's a VLC4000 under the keyboard, I don't haverG > the heart to start it up, knowing all the stuff I need to do tomorrow H > which will have to be put off due to last-minute "oh, we arranged thisK > course months ago, but we're only telling people about it now;  and we'lltF > be wasting money if nobody goes on it, so you all are".  Oops, for a" > minute I thought this was ASR... >  >    -- a
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:32:33 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>! Subject: Re: Quert wrt F$SEARCH()s8 Message-ID: <deg1vuo320s86rvsq8qa7fsiis4qtg9qat@4ax.com>  ? On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 21:39:51 -0000, "covendotartdottalk21dotcom"e <postmaster@127.0.0.1> wrote:y  J >A different cluster is doing the F$SEARCH because of historical (I preferH >in this context, the use of "hysterical") proxies;  getting approval toI >add new ones to the hundreds of machines involved, so that the UIC under.F >which the executables runs, would be even more fun that trying to getJ >$small_amount_of_money authorised for a licence for essential software on >my PeeCee.h >m% >Back to the drawing board I guess...e  N In in a similar situation where I need to determine in DCL if a remote node is up, I used the following code:  3 $   testspec = nodespec + "sys$system:loginout.exe">" $   if f$search(testspec) .eqs. "" $   then $       write sys$output -= 	    f$fao("!ASF-CANTACCESS, can't access node !AS",fac,node)s  $       exit_status = %x10000004 $       goto final_exitt	 $   endifa  O where 'nodespec' is a symbol containing (in most case) just a DECnet-style nodeaK name, e.g. REMOTE::, or a node name and access string. Basically, I use theoN "feature" of F$SEARCH that you describe to try to remotely access a known fileN via the default FAL account; I picked LOGINOUT.EXE but you could pick any fileH known to be remotely accessible. If you don't have or want a default FAL< account, you can put in a proxy entry on the remote node(s).  I Maybe this will give you an idea of something which might work for you... I -------------------------------------------------------------------------cI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comyI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)eI -------------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 23:56:10 GMTp. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: Reason to use MMS instead of MMK ? 2 Message-ID: <uIRH9.10960$A9.171721@news.chello.at>  c In article <3DE742BD.C96E75CB@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: . >Is there any reason to use MMS from Compaq/HP >instead of the free MMK ?. >Is there anything MMS can do that MMK can't ?  5 Not really what you wanted to know, but nevertheless:b  F In the pre-Hobbyists time I had one concurrent use license for some ofG the products of the DECset (LSE,MMS,CMS) and I was very frustrated witheD MMS by calling itself recursively (eg. in various freeware packages)= thus coming over the license limit and so not working at all.s  7 I installed MMK and never had (such) problems any more.   B Since my hobbyist status I use both of them (but not so often) andB I haven't found any difference, though I know that there are some.  / So my suggestion is, do it, or at least try it.k   -- t Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:47:07 -0500$ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>L Subject: RE: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgrou	pJ Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492AEF0@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: Mark Berryman [mailto:Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com]s+ > Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 7:48 PMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come@ > Subject: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated  > newsgroupa >o" > [...] It may be that no one elseG > cares how non-VMSy this newsgroup has become (or, perhaps, not enoughd3 > others see it as "noisy" as the few I've been in , > communication with do).h >   : I've received the group two ways and my outlook differs in each case.    @ As a newsgroup, the OT posts are easily ignored on a per-thread D basis, and there are some OT threads I enjoy and choose to follow.    @ As a mailing list, threads I personally find disinteresting are 8 harder to ignore and therefore more annoying, and I'd be less opposed to moderation.,  = I've wished for quick and merciful deaths for certain recent e< threads, and suspect that the participants know they should @ settle down a little without the threat of moderation.  However,6 it's almost certain that the moderator's definition of; "borderline" will not exactly match mine nor anyone elses, h so I hesitate.     > [...]o1 > comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderated?3 > comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderatede > / > and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.M >   : If there is a split, please leave comp.os.vms where it is.; Newbies will look there for some time, having been directed = there by various other sources (some in hardcopy).  The same  = goes for experienced VMSers who have been gone for a while.  l> Most of the people here want to see awareness of VMS increase,< and having newbies look for the group in vain will not help.   -Mike Duffyo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:24:09 +1100-1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupl, Message-ID: <3DF07AC9.8010609@tg.nsw.gov.au>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:a > In article <3DEF8348.64B322FE@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:l >  > J >>So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the! >>creation of two new newsgroups:w >>1 >>comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatedr3 >>comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderatede >>/ >>and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.c >  > J >>Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject? >  > E > I oppose the idea, because I think the greatest service is afforded-D > to those who only know to look for comp.os.vms and expect it to be > there as it always has been.   Mark,j  7 I fervently agree with Larry (and a few later posters).s  = I am one who has both posted to OT and criticised some of it.e  H Please do not split up comp.os.vms and the info-vax mailing list that I ' am on (I have no access to newsgroups).D  G It will be hard to distinguish what is OT or not.  I delete threads by 0G their content, and even some of what is "technical" is not my content. vG How will the moderator decide what is "technical content".  No offense gI to those I name, so perhaps I shall not name anyone, but there have been tG slanging matches between some personalities, but the "technical" stuff t) is often still there within the slanging.   G Even our VMS engineering/ambassador friends have gone OT.  Do they get e> special brownie points and permitted a few more OTs than I am?  I I think this newsgroup is somewhat more mature than alt.sex.binaries, or p2   whatever, that just wants a nude photo of xxxxx.  I When you see some of the names that contribute to OT stuff, you will see >C names that contribute to much of the technical stuff.  (Even Sue's >A posting earlier was partially OT, but I bet everyone enjoyed it).   H I live with and can delete many of the threads.  I enjoy some of the OT E threads because it is often an insight to the "characters/friends" I   have met in this community.i  A O.K., I've rambled.  But I like the way things are and I am very o6 grateful for the info-vax list that you have given us.  @ Our own self-discipline is what is needed and in general as VMS I administrators and/or users we are.  The advocacy and OT that has become lH more prevalent in recent times is probably we trying to keep our sanity  in current adverse conditions.   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************i  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedl> and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise B the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid yA immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the e= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with mC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usest> virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 12:02:58 +0200i6 From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman.remove-this@tzora.co.il>K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupi* Message-ID: <3DF075D2.2040705@tzora.co.il>  D As one who has occasion to enjoy reading the occasional OT threads -G Could comp.os.vms be retained as then "logical sum" of c.o.v.technical m< and c.o.v.advocacy? Is such a proposal technically feasible?G This would give the advantage of leaving c.o.v as it is, more-or-less,  F while allowing access to moderated-only content for those who want it.  @ Obviously there are potential problems: replying, cross-posting.   Mike   Mark Berryman wrote:H > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toG > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this issI > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thataJ > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts. I > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroups, > have simply been ignored by the offenders. >      <.. major snip...>    J > Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject? >  > Mark Berrymano > Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com > Info-VAX administrator     -- w  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm= Other useful links at http://eisner.decusserve.org/~rechtman/gE ---------------------------------------------------------------------rE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.P? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* E Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337SC    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"eE ---------------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 01:38:38 -0500T( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupq, Message-ID: <3DF045EE.5050706@tsoft-inc.com>  P I personally do not feel that the posts get too far off topic most of the time. L     Specifically, discussing the future of VMS and the platforms it runs on L surely is NOT off topic.  But then again, maybe I'm one of the 'offenders'. M I've also seen posts that while maybe considered by some to be on-topic have nL been total garbage.  The AM/PM thing, and how long it lasted, is an example.  L So, how many members are complaining?  3 or 300?  Saying the noise level is 8 high, and it actually being high, may not be consistant.  / Here's one vote for keeping things as they are..   Dave     Mark Berryman wrote:  H > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toG > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this isnI > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thatnJ > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts. I > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroup-, > have simply been ignored by the offenders. > G > Before submitting the formal proposal, however (which will need to be C > cross-posted to news.groups and news.announce.newgroups) it seemsoC > worthwhile to begin an informal discussion with the denizens hereoF > regarding their thoughts on the subject.  It may be that no one elseG > cares how non-VMSy this newsgroup has become (or, perhaps, not enougheJ > others see it as "noisy" as the few I've been in communication with do). > J > So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the! > creation of two new newsgroups:a > 1 > comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatedp3 > comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderated  > / > and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.  > C > The charter of the technical group would be, as its name implies, I > technical discussions that directly relate in some way to OpenVMS.  Anyg+ > posting not so related would be rejected.m > F > The gateway to the Info-VAX mailing list would move to the technical/ > newsgroup and it would have the same charter.  > J > Moderation would be automated.  A list would be maintained of anyone whoI > has previously posted an on-topic message to the newsgroup.  Subsequent E > postings from that address would be immediately approved and, thus,eJ > experience very little delay in reaching the usenet community.  PostingsF > from first-time posters (or from posters who posted off-topic enoughF > times to be removed from the auto-moderation list) would be manually< > screened by a moderator before being approved for posting. > J > Forged postings, as with forged Approved: headers, would be handled on a) > case-by-case basis by the moderator(s).c > J > Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject? >  > Mark Berrymanm > Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com > Info-VAX administrator >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 02:52:09 -0800-) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupr= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0212060252.277effb2@posting.google.com>E  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DF012D3.3CF60AEA@vl.videotron.ca>...- > Mark Berryman wrote:L > > So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the# > > creation of two new newsgroups:c > > 3 > > comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatedU5 > > comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderatede > > 1 > > and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.. > N > Leave comp.os.vms alone and create your own moderated newsgroup. Personally,M > with a shrunken VMS community, one should push for consolidation of all thel" > vmsnet groups into fewer groups.  > I could go for leaving COV alone and creating COVA (advocacy).  @ Backward compatible, and an "advocacy" newsgrope would not hurt.  A But then, folks preferences probably come down to which newsgropeh reader they use anyway.   E Patrick "happy! got two new unused boxed RA8000s for Aus$5800" Young.    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:18:33 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)oK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupu+ Message-ID: <asq129$1cf$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   _ In article <3DEF8348.64B322FE@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:rG >I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process to F >make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this isH >the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thatI >the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts. tH >Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroup+ >have simply been ignored by the offenders.d >hF >Before submitting the formal proposal, however (which will need to beB >cross-posted to news.groups and news.announce.newgroups) it seemsB >worthwhile to begin an informal discussion with the denizens hereE >regarding their thoughts on the subject.  It may be that no one elseeF >cares how non-VMSy this newsgroup has become (or, perhaps, not enoughI >others see it as "noisy" as the few I've been in communication with do).f >eI >So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be thes  >creation of two new newsgroups: >o0 >comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderated2 >comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderated >p. >and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup. >f  J Sorry I am dead against this. We already have tons of specialist technicalJ groups in the vmsnet heirachy - everybody still gravitates to comp.os.vms.  K If you do this then I for one will just crosspost all my technical posts totG both groups (I might even consider only posting them to the unmoderated1 group).i  L I'll also probably end up wading through even more posts since I will almost@ certainly check both newsgroups for technical (and other) posts.      B >The charter of the technical group would be, as its name implies,H >technical discussions that directly relate in some way to OpenVMS.  Any* >posting not so related would be rejected. > E >The gateway to the Info-VAX mailing list would move to the technicalq. >newsgroup and it would have the same charter. >>I >Moderation would be automated.  A list would be maintained of anyone who>H >has previously posted an on-topic message to the newsgroup.  SubsequentD >postings from that address would be immediately approved and, thus,I >experience very little delay in reaching the usenet community.  PostingseE >from first-time posters (or from posters who posted off-topic enoughiE >times to be removed from the auto-moderation list) would be manuallym; >screened by a moderator before being approved for posting.. >>  K Which means that the technical answer from a first time poster to an urgentuL problem will be delayed. Hence it will be better to post the question to the@ unmoderated list where anyone could provide the required answer.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  I >Forged postings, as with forged Approved: headers, would be handled on a-( >case-by-case basis by the moderator(s). >hI >Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject?P >I >Mark Berryman >Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com  >Info-VAX administratort   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 21:05:22 -0600<1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>nK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupm' Message-ID: <3DF013F2.23253586@fsi.net>U   Mark Berryman wrote: > H > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toG > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this is I > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thattI > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts.dI > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroupo, > have simply been ignored by the offenders. > G > Before submitting the formal proposal, however (which will need to besC > cross-posted to news.groups and news.announce.newgroups) it seemseC > worthwhile to begin an informal discussion with the denizens here6F > regarding their thoughts on the subject.  It may be that no one elseG > cares how non-VMSy this newsgroup has become (or, perhaps, not enough>J > others see it as "noisy" as the few I've been in communication with do). > J > So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the! > creation of two new newsgroups:e > 1 > comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatede3 > comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderatedn > / > and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.e > C > The charter of the technical group would be, as its name implies,cI > technical discussions that directly relate in some way to OpenVMS.  Anyw+ > posting not so related would be rejected.  > F > The gateway to the Info-VAX mailing list would move to the technical/ > newsgroup and it would have the same charter.a > J > Moderation would be automated.  A list would be maintained of anyone whoI > has previously posted an on-topic message to the newsgroup.  Subsequent E > postings from that address would be immediately approved and, thus, J > experience very little delay in reaching the usenet community.  PostingsF > from first-time posters (or from posters who posted off-topic enoughF > times to be removed from the auto-moderation list) would be manually< > screened by a moderator before being approved for posting. > J > Forged postings, as with forged Approved: headers, would be handled on a) > case-by-case basis by the moderator(s).e > J > Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject?  E Well, if comp.os.vms disappears, what happens on Google Groups? Do wei8 lose the wealth of so many years of searchable articles?  3 If so, then I'd have to vote against this approach.   D I don't mind most of the off-topic stuff. In fact, I find some of itH quite educational. It's the nasty stuff I think we could all do without.H I've blown my stack here more than once (posts including stuff like "YOU; GOTTA BE S--TTING ME!" and so on), so I'm as guilty as any.   G Dunno - changes are always slow to catch on, especially when there's sosF many searchable archives and articles in them pointing to comp.os.vms.B Their loss may be sufficiently destructive of the ends you seek toE protect that the entire effort may be self-defeating: by "strangling" C this group (probably the only pro-VMS contingent on the 'net), suchoE efforts to gaurd VMS and its proponents may result in the accelerated./ death of VMS's presence on the 'net as a whole.p  F I understand the motivation, but I think the effects may be the resultD of causes beyond our control. I have (somewhere) a draft of a post I@ never sent - a rather long rant essentially responding to (then)D Compaq's complaints about the negativity here. My gist was that they? don't understand that if they want the negativity to cease, thebG provocations must cease first (killing off vital products, lies, broken G promises, etc.). Until that happens (not likely), the "venting" here ise likely to continue.t  D So, trying to moderate the group may be likened to a "band-aid fix":E covers the outward sign of the "disease", but does nothing to cure it 1 and so the "patient" dies a more insidious death.e  @ Also, it seems a bit too "parental": the children won't exerciseF restraint, so we'll have to censor them. Probably very popular in HP's9 board room, but I doubt it will be so well received here.h   My $0.02, YMMV...r   -- / David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 05:23:17 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup 3 Message-ID: <APw6FsT+q93f@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  P In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:  = > How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated  0 > comp.os.openvms.technical or something similar  N I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C.  C > That way those who get tired of the OT stuff will migrate to the m8 > technical group.  Those who just want technical issues > can go to the new group.  D Why not use the existing VMSnet hierarchy for those posts (moderated or unmoderated, I don't care) ?S   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 05:25:47 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)sK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup 3 Message-ID: <UNPnwLvv63FF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   / I agree that we do sometimes control ourselves.   ` In article <3DF07AC9.8010609@tg.nsw.gov.au>, Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> writes:  K > I think this newsgroup is somewhat more mature than alt.sex.binaries, or  4 >   whatever, that just wants a nude photo of xxxxx.  A We do not allow binaries, and there have been no attempts to postn3 a picture of a Marvel system with the skins off :-)n   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 05:31:09 -0600i- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup 3 Message-ID: <r7gvW+UNxITU@eisner.encompasserve.org>)  > Someone mentioned that they might end up cross-posting betweenA two groups, and certainly this would bring up a plethora of addedl	 problems.s  E Not all browser get the cross-posting correct, on writing or reading,yA probably due to some disagreement about what "correct" is, so one = would end up reading the same post twice, in both newsgroups.m  @ In an ideal world, with everybody running a perfect browser on aA perfect operating system (with a perfect bifurcated mail gateway)- this would not happen.  4 Let's defer the proposal until the world is perfect.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:24:31 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup . Message-ID: <asqfff$p7r$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <APw6FsT+q93f@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Dec 2002 05:23:17 -0600:Q >In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:t >o> >> How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated 1 >> comp.os.openvms.technical or something similaro >OO >I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C.d   Yes, there is a precedant.   rec.humor (unmoderated)  rec.humor.funny (moderated)G  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:54:52 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)tK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup + Message-ID: <asqh8c$6ai$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>s  ] In article <asqfff$p7r$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:  >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <APw6FsT+q93f@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Dec 2002 05:23:17 -0600:rR >>In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes: >>? >>> How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated c2 >>> comp.os.openvms.technical or something similar >>P >>I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C. >  >Yes, there is a precedant.d >o >rec.humor (unmoderated) >rec.humor.funny (moderated) >f  9 I think this depends on the hierachy the newsgroup is in. 3 The rules for the comp hierachy may not allow this.c    
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:15:04 +0000 (UTC), From: lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup . Message-ID: <asqie8$pcn$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes in article <asqh8c$6ai$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk> dated Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:54:52 +0000 (UTC):l^ >In article <asqfff$p7r$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes: >>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <APw6FsT+q93f@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Dec 2002 05:23:17 -0600:S >>>In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes:n >>>a@ >>>> How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated 3 >>>> comp.os.openvms.technical or something similar- >>>cQ >>>I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C.l >> >>Yes, there is a precedant. >> >>rec.humor (unmoderated), >>rec.humor.funny (moderated)o >h: >I think this depends on the hierachy the newsgroup is in.4 >The rules for the comp hierachy may not allow this.  K Based on the counterexamples of the second and third newsgroups in the comptJ heirarchy (comp.ai and comp.ai.alife), I request you cite the rule or move on.i  B These aren't the only counterexamples, just the first in the list.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:35:31 -0500v& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup,8 Message-ID: <1kj1vuo4s583asr1nc7a7v21dgfb9ikvdu@4ax.com>  N On Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:48:08 -0800, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote:  G >I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process to F >make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this isH >the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thatI >the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts. cH >Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroup+ >have simply been ignored by the offenders.e  M The posts to this topic so far seem to fall into two groups (if I'm correctlyo interpreting them):<  M o  those vehemently in favor of leaving the groups as it is, i.e. comp.os.vmscN o  those who think they can live with it if it is changed, but expect actually( to expend more work keeping up with both  J I guess, to avoid being one of the latter (more work) I vote as one of theO former -- I don't see that the benefit you attribute to such a change is likelyrK to occur, and I expect it will take more effort to keep up with both due toi= cross-posting (even scanning and ignoring takes some effort).n   Just my two cents...I -------------------------------------------------------------------------eI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot comaI Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)lI -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 09:40:08 -0600t+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)dK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupe3 Message-ID: <A31p5ubPAAj3@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  c In article <r7gvW+UNxITU@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:c@ > Someone mentioned that they might end up cross-posting betweenC > two groups, and certainly this would bring up a plethora of addede > problems.w > G > Not all browser get the cross-posting correct, on writing or reading, C > probably due to some disagreement about what "correct" is, so oneo? > would end up reading the same post twice, in both newsgroups.  >   A 	I've been at this for 15 years now.  Back in the day, I remember D 	being chided for writing something that was too long (kid you not).? 	At Widener, we delayed ftp'ing files until the evening because*B 	that was something you didn't do during the day over the Internet@ 	because it put too much "bandwidth" in the Internet.  A certain 	informal code of conduct.  < 	Long posts are no longer an issue.  The 400 MBytes that was? 	devoted to Usenet is now many Gigabytes (I'm assuming, haven'tt) 	touched the management end in 14 years).y  < 	A moderated comp.os.vms might sound good but its uses in myA 	opinion are very narrow.  If the noise is too much, unsubscribe.i> 	Do your technical harvesting via groups.google.com and search< 	Ask the Wizard, www.google.com.  Still can't find it?  PostD 	a question to comp.os.vms via Google.  Can't get to it during work?< 	How urgent is it?  Call support.  No support contract?  HowD 	narrow is that?  No Internet access tells me you are in a draconian> 	environment OR secure environment.  If the latter, surely you, 	have support?!??  If the former.... sheesh.  D 	Finally, want to see what happens to busting out as you describe...? 	look at the comp.sys.powerpc hiearchy.  I've posted there overt@ 	the years.  comp.sys.powerpc.advocacy today is nothing but pornA 	and kook related ads.   And apparently no longer being posted to 2 	or carried by news sites.  Here is Eisner's view:  J ->28927  debugging PowerPC's processor bus (604 Michael Reed <mreed    11  7-OctwJ   28928  Re: debugging PowerPC's processor bus  "Gary Milliorn" <gm    27  9-OcteI   28929  Re: debugging PowerPC's processor bus  "David" <vonarburg.    38  10-Oct    a 	Here is Google's view:o  O Oct. 10, 2002 debugging PowerPC's processor bus (604 bus, MPC750)  (3 articles)- David Sponsored Links I Sep. 18, 2002 READ THE ONLY WEB SITE THAT WANTS TO KILL JEWS AND B...  (1Q& article) Hal.Turner@HalTurnerShow.com I Sep. 18, 2002 READ THE ONLY SITE THAT HAS THE GUTS TO CALL FOR THE...  (1,& article) Hal.Turner@HalTurnerShow.com H Aug. 6, 2002 Free P.0.RN.0! Link Inside! Fresh post! aHQN32W7hk t...  (1 article) Isabelle H Aug. 6, 2002 Free P.0.RN.0! Link Inside! Fresh post! GlNOIPPMfC2y...  (1	 article) d    3 	The use for comp.sys.powerpc.advocay is not there.hC 	comp.sys.powerpc.tech is unmoderated.  Occasional spew fests wouldt? 	have folks saying: "take it to advocacy", most complied.  Thatf0 	was 6 and 7 years ago.  Today, c.s.p.a is dead.  > 	As a suggestion , I would suggest adding comp.os.vms.advocacy@ 	and leaving comp.os.vms unmoderated.  When noise to signal gets@ 	too hot, folks will naturally force the noise to the porn site.6 	Maybe to just head off where it will end up, name it C 	comp.os.vms.advocacy_and_kooks_and_porn to accurately reflect the e? 	content of the group.  The big issue will be who carries it.  f2 	I suspect not many (even if the name is shorter).  @ 	Removing comp.os.vms is the worst idea it seems.  If you must, = 	moderate comp.os.vms.  However, I suspect the result will beo: 	that the traffic to comp.os.vms will drop to the level ofC 	comp.compilers (moderated) and the vmsnet.* hierarchy (not carriedEF 	by many).  Dropping the traffic will certainly drop the contributors, 	etc.a   				Roba      ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 16:39:15 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup-+ Message-ID: <asqjrj$72t$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>8  ] In article <asqie8$pcn$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:r >david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) writes in article <asqh8c$6ai$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk> dated Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:54:52 +0000 (UTC):_ >>In article <asqfff$p7r$1@newslocal.mitre.org>, lewis@mazda.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) writes:j >>>Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <APw6FsT+q93f@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Dec 2002 05:23:17 -0600:oT >>>>In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes: >>>>A >>>>> How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated g4 >>>>> comp.os.openvms.technical or something similar >>>>R >>>>I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C. >>>f >>>Yes, there is a precedant.  >>>t >>>rec.humor (unmoderated) >>>rec.humor.funny (moderated) >>; >>I think this depends on the hierachy the newsgroup is in.m5 >>The rules for the comp hierachy may not allow this.  > L >Based on the counterexamples of the second and third newsgroups in the compK >heirarchy (comp.ai and comp.ai.alife), I request you cite the rule or movee >on. >IC >These aren't the only counterexamples, just the first in the list.  >   4 OK. I admit I didn't bother to check before posting.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:00:37 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>cK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupeJ Message-ID: <VI4I9.238453$oRV.108518@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  9 "Keith A. Lewis" <lewis@mazda.mitre.org> wrote in message ( news:asqfff$p7r$1@newslocal.mitre.org...; > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in articledH <APw6FsT+q93f@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 6 Dec 2002 05:23:17 -0600:K > >In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com>. writes:b > >t? > >> How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated 3 > >> comp.os.openvms.technical or something similarh > > J > >I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C. >m > Yes, there is a precedant. >  > rec.humor (unmoderated)p > rec.humor.funny (moderated)r    L As to the rec.humor.funny (moderated) I can give you many examples of peopleJ whose sense of humor is either very offensive or non-existent. I would notI want any of those people moderating a newsgroup devoted to humor....but I, digress.    L Aside from the usual "Make Mr. Happy Bigger in 3 Days or Less" type of spam,K most of the messages received in c.o.v. are relevant to either technical or J longevity issues of VMS.  With respect to the longevity issues, given thatL HP rarely has people calling on accounts any longer, it is most natural thatH concerned customers have a place to discuss issues and solicit opinions.G These sorts of discussions are often passionate, but equally often they J include technical issues, so where do you stop the discussion in one forumJ and move it to another when the discourse often ebbs and flows? And do you- move it back when it changes direction again?   J Of the OT stuff, most is fairly limited in duration, and reflects (for theL most part), the thoughtful and intelligent nature of most participants here.K The only thing that occurs in c.o.v. that clearly is not appropriate is the-D occasional casting of personal insults in among the midst of what isI otherwise astute observation or knowledge. So in that case, do you excisef= the offending message completely or only partially censor it?-  F I think that it is a mistake to separate the discussions into multipleB threads. In fact if you are going to do that, then you'd better beB consistent and filter/bounce any straight Fortran or C or SQL/DBMSK discussions in c.o.v. (as examples of topics that already have other forums I devoted to these things) that don't refer to VMS system services or other  VMS-specific concepts.  L We are a small community as it is - for better or worse, c.o.v. is the placeI where most of the discussion regarding VMS-related things occur, and this L has occurred as a result of a long period of human behavior. I see no reasonL to further fragment it and lessen the weight of our collective voice, though' I'm sure HP wouldn't mind that one bit.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:19:55 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup * Message-ID: <00A180DC.8A9381E5.3@decus.de>  3 "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote:h  H > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toG > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this isoI > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thatvI > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts.sI > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroupi, > have simply been ignored by the offenders.  > There have been lengthy discussions on US elections and voting machines for example ...  G > Before submitting the formal proposal, however (which will need to besC > cross-posted to news.groups and news.announce.newgroups) it seems C > worthwhile to begin an informal discussion with the denizens here F > regarding their thoughts on the subject.  It may be that no one elseG > cares how non-VMSy this newsgroup has become (or, perhaps, not enoughtJ > others see it as "noisy" as the few I've been in communication with do).  F I typically (de)select topics based on the message subject -- and even4 very on-topic items may get off-topic eventually ...  J > So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the! > creation of two new newsgroups:g >r1 > comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatede3 > comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderated  >e/ > and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.  >nC > The charter of the technical group would be, as its name implies,*H > technical discussions that directly relate in some way to OpenVMS. Any+ > posting not so related would be rejected.i  F What would you consider "technical discussions that directly relate in? some way to OpenVMS"? A discussion on "strategic decisions" and < "company policy" or even "persons being promoted" is neitherF "technical" nor "related to OpenVMS", but if the company happens to be7 Digital/Compaq/HP that discussion may be very on-topic.t  @ And, as others have already mentioned, even some remarks made by. OpenVMS engineers are definitely off-topic ...  F > The gateway to the Info-VAX mailing list would move to the technical/ > newsgroup and it would have the same charter.  >wJ > Moderation would be automated.  A list would be maintained of anyone whoH > has previously posted an on-topic message to the newsgroup. SubsequentE > postings from that address would be immediately approved and, thus,cI > experience very little delay in reaching the usenet community. Postings*F > from first-time posters (or from posters who posted off-topic enoughF > times to be removed from the auto-moderation list) would be manually< > screened by a moderator before being approved for posting. >sJ > Forged postings, as with forged Approved: headers, would be handled on a) > case-by-case basis by the moderator(s).s  < So there will be a lot of work reading all the postings from nobody@nowhere.com ...  J > Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject?  F Final conclusion: I just ignore the "noise" -- even considering that IB have a dial-up connection to the ISP only and have to spend my own# money for downloading the messages.o   Michaeli  C PS: personal opinions only and definitely not speaking on behalf ofl DECUS    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 18:38:33 +0100a1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupo5 Message-ID: <3DF0E099.7B4BFFAC@swissonline.delete.ch>q   Mark Berryman wrote: > H > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toG > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this issI > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thataI > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts. I > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroupt, > have simply been ignored by the offenders. > 
 ..... etc.    $ I have two thoughts on this subject.  B 1.  We should try to use the "subject" field in a way that is moreF consistent with the nature of the posting because accurate titles willH help everyone.  Recently there have been a number of postings that startE on one subject and with a suitable heading but then within a few daystA drift to another topic entirely but still retain the heading.  In-F particular, the use of "OT: (something)" headings should be encouragedD for material that is, well, Off Topic.  The filtering of OT material< should be reasonably easy for anyone using a newsgroup tool.  G 2.  Is there some way that people who receive comp.os.vms via email canlG decide to opt-in or opt-out of any "OT: ..." or "re: OT:" subject lines C ?  I believe that if these people had the option to apply just thissA level of filtering to the creation of their email it could make ae significant difference.      cheers   John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:33:57 -0500i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: SoftPC on VMS/ Message-ID: <3DEFB833.9500AABF@vl.videotron.ca>h   JOUKJ wrote:L > > You might want to look for something called 'bochs' though.  ISTR seeing1 > > something about it having been ported to VMS. - > See : http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/    It is actually now at :eJ http://bochs.sourceforce.net  but I didn't see any mention of VAX support.. (consider the implications of floating point).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:21:51 -0500o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)% Subject: Re: TK70 drive bug found :-(uL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0512021821520001@user-2ive1ar.dialup.mindspring.com>  < In article <01C29C3C.62099080@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote:n  G >I have some not so fond memories of an old Kennedy reel-to-reel vacuumtG >column tape drive that should have been retired meny years previously.bD >Management wouldn't let us get rid of it because it looked like theF >"computers" in movies, and they wanted to be able to point to it when6 >they were showing people from other companies around. >u8 >PHB's. And no, the "B" doesn't mean "Boss" this time...  ; When I was in school we had a pair of these Kennedy drives.u  % We all called them the Dead Kennedys.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 02:10:10 -0500g0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: UCX / TCP QIO interface and READVBLKi. Message-ID: <3DF04D50.2A5C7F7@vl.videotron.ca>   Hiroyuki Tanaka wrote:N > I have question about the TCPIP interfaces and the READVBLK. I have a serverM > process with a buffer of say size 512 bytes.  Then from a client I write to F > the port that the server is going to read from a string of 10 bytes.  N Make sure that the buffer length argument when the write is done by the clientK is in fact 10 bytes. (if you specify a buffer length of 512, the write willn2 send 512 bytes, even if most of it is just nulls).  M > Currently in the iosb for the server READVBLK I get the value of 512 bytes,uN > with the buffer containing my ten bytes and the remainder of the buffer zero	 > filled.   F Have you also checekd the status code to esnure the IO was succesful ?  N > From my limited QIO$ programming experience with serial comms I thought that: > the iosb status block returned the number of bytes read.  K That is the correct expected behaviour. Note however that The READ does notcL necessarily match the WRITE. You could have 10 writes sending 10 bytes each,7 and all of it delivered in one read yielding 100 bytes.t  K This will happen if, for instance, the server side is busy computing and by J the time it gets to doing the next read, there have already been 100 bytesI received in the buffer and you tell the read to return 512 bytes at most.3    G > Apart from the UCX guide are there any good books I should look at to : > understand TCP socket programming, particulary with VMS.  M YOu can take a good look at the directory SYS$EXAMPLES and any direcory below 3 it. It contains QIO examples for TCPIP programming.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:29:54 +10000 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>9 Subject: Re: VMS Courses in Australia - other than COMPAQn3 Message-ID: <pnYH9.14$F76.1992796@news.cpqcorp.net>    Hi Dan,p  J Have you tried contacting your DECUS LUG?  The LUGs host excellent monthlyK meetings and often find industry and subject matter experts.  If you have a G particular topic of interest then they are sometimes able to arrange and appropriate speaker.  & Take a look at http://www.decus.org.au   Matt.f   --= -------------------------------------------------------------6 OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Hewlett-Packard Companyj Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAs= -------------------------------------------------------------a    1 "dann" <danwitbier@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message67 news:564de82a.0212050054.5bdf3109@posting.google.com...aE > Is anyone aware of any OpenVMS courses that are provided other thangG > that of COMPAQ here in Australia ( specifically Sydney ) ? If so, I'dl > be interested to find out. >t	 > Cheers,v   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Dec 2002 10:25:38 -0000c4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>I Subject: Re: VMS73_SYS05 (& VMS731_SYS02) kills dce, pathworks, goldfax ?v5 Message-ID: <20021206102538.4623.qmail@nym.alias.net>u  G On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote: I >I installed the VMS73_SYS05 patch two weeks ago & rebooted. On rebootingaI >dce, pathworks & goldfax were all broken (dce fixed with another supporttJ >call, no luck yet with the others). Talking to DPD, suppliers of Goldfax,J >they've got a similar problem with another customer, who's identified theM >VMS731_SYS02 patch as causing his problem, which was released at roughly thep3 >same time, and is presumably a very similar patch.o  G I installed SYS05 and had problems with my Multinet SMTP mail queues. ImH also installed a number of other patches at the same time, so I couldn'tI with certainty blame it. After studying the ECO list I discovered a patchvK I'd missed many months ago and assumed that was the problem. Not having oldlI enough backups I reinstalled the base and added patches again, but didn'ts include SYS05 - yet.     Doc. -- h6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netpK                                                    http://althacker.cjb.neto   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 14:43:39 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb)r) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMSg+ Message-ID: <asqd2r$509$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>g  g In article <d7791aa1.0212060618.20466b5@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:rf >goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote in message news:<3defc799.32100478@news.process.com>...Q >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:33:15 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 	 >> wrote:m >> eQ >> >I thought Purveyor when it was still being developed was a commercial producti >> >not freeware.o >> s >> Correct.s >> f8 >> >Can you even obtain Purveyor from Process any more ? >> >R >> It's available to Hobbyists for free, and we still sell licenses for it, thoughO >> it is unsupported (and we still do sell some licenses each year, despite ther >> unsupported status).n >> r	 >> Hunterb	 >> ------H< >> Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/; >> goathunter@goatley.com    http://www.goatley.com/hunter/i? >> New Robert R. McCammon site: http://www.RobertRMcCammon.com/F >eE >and that is because it is still a bulletproof, easy to use webserverc? >for VMS, vax and alpha ... I think you should start up supporte >again for it ...d  K Or better yet release it to the public domain - then Bob can develop it ando support it.   K I can't see any reason for Process to develop and support it. The number of5L companies who will be prepared to pay for it as a commercial product must beH pretty small - though the fact they still sell licenses each year arguesB there are still some customers who don't want a freeware solution.      r
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 10:50:43 +01006 From: "Winfried Bergmann" <nospam.bergmann@empuron.de>> Subject: Re: what could replace VAX-driven DNC tools machines?5 Message-ID: <asprum$tdedo$1@ID-170759.news.dfncis.de>n  J Does your customer want to replace the DNC system? I created a Linux basedI DNC system, which could be a solution. To replace the VAX with a softwarelL emulator could cause timing problems, if the emulator supports the interfaceG (usually a serial line interface like RS232 or RS485, but possibly also6
 ethernet).K Another possibility could be to port the VAX DNC system to another OS, like-C UNIX or Linux, but if it's a third party product, this might not beeD possible. Do you know the manufactorer of your customers DNC system?   --) eMail: winfried.bergmann@NOSPAMempuron.deg# remove "NOSPAM" from address above!   G "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrage  news:3DEF17BF.2020909@Free.fr...I > A Customer is wondering about his future in terms of real-time workshop L > management. They have 50 tools machines doing DNC (Digital Numeric Control ?)K > driven by a few VAX systems. They are asking me: "where should we go when  HP, > discontinue the VAX product line support". > C > My answer has been: "Alpha", then "IA64", then "or other vendor".  > H > What vendors do you know of who could supersede a VAX driven workshop? >t > SUN Solaris?	 > HP/UX ?o	 > others?a >r	 > Thanks,s >  > D. > (back from hell) >w   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 12:40:18 +0000 (UTC)5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>g> Subject: Re: what could replace VAX-driven DNC tools machines?/ Message-ID: <asq5rh$3ln$1@venus.btinternet.com>   A "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in messagee  news:3DEF17BF.2020909@Free.fr...I > A Customer is wondering about his future in terms of real-time workshoprL > management. They have 50 tools machines doing DNC (Digital Numeric Control ?)K > driven by a few VAX systems. They are asking me: "where should we go whenf HP, > discontinue the VAX product line support". >sC > My answer has been: "Alpha", then "IA64", then "or other vendor".  >sH > What vendors do you know of who could supersede a VAX driven workshop? >o > SUN Solaris?	 > HP/UX ?f	 > others?  > 	 > Thanks,t >a > D. > (back from hell) >n  L You need to know, and tell us, *much* more about the setup for the resulting advice to be useful.  @ A nice simple setup, consisting of CAD program(s), site-specificH post-processor(s), and simplish serial interface(s) to reasonably modernK machine controller(s) with documented protocols is probably a piece of cakesJ in relative terms. With 50 machines yours probably isn't simple, but if itL was, I'd pick a system with a decent Fortran (post processors, being numericE things, were often Fortran) and probably decent comms facilities. VMSiI springs to mind... may not appear to be the cheapest to buy, but probablyeK cheapest overall cost in terms of getting off VAX and getting running againyG safely and quickly. That may not be what the customer wants to hear, ofo course.I  G A high end setup could involve multiple post processors, machine statussH monitoring, job scheduling, library management, interfaces to shop floorE management packages, etc. These can be surprisingly complex. It's not L something I would advise you touch without finding someone who understands aK lot about the system as designed and as currently operated. Last one I cameoL across was managed by a nice lady who retired and then had to be retained asK a "consultant on call" for the days the system didn't feel like working, oriI for when minor mods were needed. Again, VMS on a modern box will get themtK going again with least cost and least risk. If the VAXes are on contract it + can sometimes pay for itself quite quickly.   H Whose DNC system is this? Home made? If commercial, what happened to theH vendor (and/or the folks who developed it)? Does the term BTR (or BTR53)I come into this picture, in which case you need to feel particularly brave-H before proceeding? Product names "Digital DNC" or "VAX DNC" from DEC mayE have similar implications... If you hear the terms MAP or MMS in thisoK context, I recommend you withdraw discreetly as soon as possible unless theoF customer has a very big budget, just suggest the customer buys lots ofD spares and builds up lots of documentation while the system is still working.  I Another possibility - find a software house capable of doing this kind ofoH thing, and seek their advice - which might understandably turn out to beH start again from a blank sheet of paper, rather than porting an existingI suite of programs, given that the business needs and environment might beoG different today than when this lot were first set up. That *definitely*rK won't be cheap, and it *usually* won't be low risk. Hence, with the limited0" information available, I vote VMS.  
 Good luck, john   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:09:05 +0100 (MET)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: XFC question 6 Message-ID: <200212060809.JAA19805@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  9 I would like to do the following: for all nodes I did setn9 VCC_MAX_CACHE to -1 within MODPARAMS.DAT. After startup Im= would like to modify this parameter and adjust the max. cache < size to 10% of phys. memory. I did try it with the following command sequence:a   	$SYSGEN; 	SYSGEN> SET VCC_MAX_CACHE 64	! Set max. cache size to 64MB  	SYSGEN> WRITE ACTIVE-
 	SYSGEN> EXIT  	$SET CACHE/RESET   F Nothing did change. Before and after the commnds the SHOW MEMORY/CACHEE command did show the same values for memory in use, actual cache size B and max. cache. What's wrong with commands above? Second question:F Is it possible to set the SYSGEN parameter and make them active withinH one command? (Background: I would like to compute the actual max. cache- size).   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:51:02 -0500o2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>1 Subject: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspn. Message-ID: <3DF0D576.371CFE6E@mindspring.com>  * http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-976211.html   HP gives Alpha one last gasp   By Ian Fried Special to ZDNet Newse December 5, 2002, 11:12 AM PT-  4 Hewlett-Packard in January plans to release the last/ major update to its Alpha chip, the EV7, pavingj2 the way for the retirement of the storied high-end
 processor.  5 An updated version of that chip, the EV79 will follow 6 about 12 months later, HP executives said at a meeting4 this week with financial analysts. At that point, HP4 plans to shift Alpha into what it calls "maintenance1 mode," a move that will save the company hundredst of millions of dollars.g  5 The updated Alpha schedule is a slight departure frome5 HP's previous timetable. In May, HP had said that thee EV7 would debut in late 2002.A  , HP is retiring Alpha, along with its PA-RISC5 processor, in favor of building systems using Intel's.2 Itanium chip, which is based on an architecture HP1 helped develop. By shifting to Itanium, HP standsh/ to save significant development costs. However,-1 HP is betting big that Itanium sales will replace(0 the business HP will lose from Alpha and PA-RISC based systems.  + Alpha and PA-RISC processors account for $5a1 billion in annual revenue, more than a quarter ofx1 HP's total enterprise systems business, accordinge0 to Peter Blackmore, HP executive vice president.   <rest snipped...>C   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:22:51 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>G Subject: [OT] Re: Risks Digest 22.41 (re: Windows 2000 EAL4 evaluation)t* Message-ID: <00A180DC.F3527209.5@decus.de>  P > RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest  Thursday 5 December 2002  Volume 22 : Issue 41 >m > [...]  > $ > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 7:11:48 PST0 > From: "Peter G. Neumann" <neumann@csl.sri.com>N > Subject: Understanding the Windows 2000 EAL4 Evaluation, Jonathan S. Shapiro > + > Understanding the Windows EAL4 EvaluationeN > Jonathan S. Shapiro, Johns Hopkins University Information Security Institute, >   "Jonathan S. Shapiro" <shap@eros-os.org>- >   http://eros.cs.jhu.edu/~shap/NT-EAL4.html-C >     [Via Bruce Schneier's Crypto-Gram (courtesy of Paul Walczak)]i >.J > By now, you may have heard that Microsoft has received a Common CriteriaN > certification for Windows 2000 (with service pack 3) at Evaluation AssuranceM > Level (EAL) 4. Since a bunch of people know that I work on operating systemkN > security and on security assurance, I've received lots of notes asking "WhatJ > does this mean?" On this page I will try to answer the question. For the > impatient the answer is: >rN > Security experts have been saying for years that the security of the WindowsF > family of products is hopelessly inadequate. Now there is a rigorous+ > government certification confirming this.k >i > [...]r > . > Subject: Abridged info on RISKS (comp.risks) >sO >  The RISKS Forum is a MODERATED digest.  Its Usenet equivalent is comp.risks.o >n > [...]i >o4 > => ARCHIVES are available: ftp://ftp.sri.com/risks >  > [...].  D Very detailed article definitely worth reading it. But only Windows,F UNIX/Linux and EROS (a research operating system) are mentioned -- not# a single OS considered "mature" ...n   Michaelr   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.674 ************************