1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 07 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 676       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... = **OT** Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations C Re: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy? 
 Re: CPU MODEL  Re: death of alpha on slashdot" Re: Future of Alpha and/or OpenVMS! Re: Good Job in Good Environment!  Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems  Re: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems  Re: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems 6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations Re: Lat vs TCP/IP  Re: Lat vs TCP/IP  Re: Lat vs TCP/IP  Re: Lat vs TCP/IP - Re: Netscape 2.02 & VAX/VMS 7.3 & Motif 1.2-6 - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? ) OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1= Question on VMS system authentication using perl and web page A Re: Question on VMS system authentication using perl and web page B Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupP Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No  thanks!O Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks! P Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks! P Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks!  Re: SoftPC on VMS 4 Subject line ! (was Re: Request for Discussion, ...)8 Re: Testing for status of remote host via web CGI script8 Re: Testing for status of remote host via web CGI script- Third-Party Fibre Channel Storage Controllers @ Re: VMS73_SYS05 (& VMS731_SYS02) kills dce, pathworks, goldfax ? Re: what does this command mean , Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:25:14 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" .../ Message-ID: <3DF14DE2.5AFD38E5@vl.videotron.ca>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > B > an article on www.openvms.org just posted states OpenVMS will be, > around long after current users retire ...  I That's it ! HP's accountants have figured out that the remaining group of K loyal VMS fans has now shrunk down to a point where it would be feasable to L buy those VMS fans (that is US!)  with an offer for immediate retirement andM other perks, which would allow HP to immediatly retire VMS with all of us and X HP would then be free to pursue its own dreams of wintel everywhere and go unchallenged.  K Sue is the one who maintains the list of VMS loyalists, so she would be the = use to bribe to ensure one is on that list to be part of that V early-retirement-with-perks package that HP would give us in exchange for our silence.   :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)   L (Sue: I am not to be held responsible if you suddently start to receive lots! of chocolates and other "gifts").    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:46:11 +0200 6 From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman.remove-this@tzora.co.il>F Subject: **OT** Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations* Message-ID: <3DF241F3.6070109@tzora.co.il>   David M Smith wrote:3 > On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:34:12 +0200, Mike Rechtman + > <rechtman.remove-this@tzora.co.il> wrote:  >  >  >> >>David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >>>Bob Koehler wrote:  >>>  >>> c >>>>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>>> >>>>> >>>>>No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaning& >>>>>for gander other than male goose? >>>>
 >>>>  Yes. >>> F >>Also "take a gander" as in "take a dekko" - now look for *that* one! >> >> >>>Place in Newfoundland, no?  >>>  >> > Q > Okay, how about http://www.corkslang.com/term/dekkoordekho/ (dictionary of Cork  > slang)... K > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- K > David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com K > Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------   @ I was of the impression that "dekh ho" was "look here" in Urdu -   Mike "He knows *no* Urdu" R.   --    6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm= Other useful links at http://eisner.decusserve.org/~rechtman/ E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:20:25 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> L Subject: Re: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy?2 Message-ID: <3DF14C24.E3ACE474@firstdbasource.com>   no spam wrote: > C > I'm writing for a programmer in my group who thinks his screen is H > being monitored while working on a Open VMS box.  If this is true, hisH > knowledge of the software is being stolen by another company simply by > viewing his screen.  > B > He's noticed a significant slowdown when he is called  on to fixC > something difficult on this box.  Coincidently, the other company G > would be very interested in knowing what he is doing during this time D > and there are other things which point to him believing that he is > being monitored. > A > Is there any way to stop this sort of monitoring?  I understand - > programs like "Peek and Spy" could be used.     B If peek&spy is being used, there will be a logical definition thatG starts with PEEK. a simple: SH LOG PEEK* should uncover it. I have used C P&S extensively and unless the box is severely undersized and using = older disks technology you will not notice any degredation.     & You need to supply a few more details:  ) 1) how is he connecting to this VMS box?  B 2) Does it belong to the same company for whom he is programming? ? 	(If he is doing work for said company - normal contracts would E stipulate that anything he did on their equipment would be considered E their proprietary works in which case this whole discussion is moot.) F 3) A show system should turn up some evidence of peek&spy etc... if he knows what he is looking for.   ? P&S is really nice to find out who modified a particular sysgen A parameter that caused the system to not reboot as it should..  :)    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:25:58 +0100; From: "Jerome" <Jerome.Forissier@removethis.libertysurf.fr>  Subject: Re: CPU MODEL4 Message-ID: <newscache$it3q6h$8ae$1@news.tiscali.fr>  A "Kesav Tadimeti" <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote in message C news:8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2609A0453@exdel01.del.mgsl.com...   E > Does this mean that this is a 10 CPU machine? Now how do I find the  correct  > EV number?   Have you tried SHOW CPU/FULL?    -- Jerome   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 14:19:48 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: death of alpha on slashdot 5 Message-ID: <ast024$ue8qd$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ) In article <DkcxqyOjmTBU@elias.decus.ch>, , 	p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: > In article <rdeininger-0612020851290001@user-2ive145.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: ? >> In article <c5cf6e8.0212060511.18e22344@posting.google.com>, , >> baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote: >>  J >>>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/0326217&mode=thread&tid=173 >>  1 >> The level of ignorance over there is stunning.  >>	 > Agreed.  >   H >> Are those the sort of folks who are being hired to program and manageK >> today's wonderful "industry standard" and linux IT solutions?  If so, we " >> are in a whole heap of trouble. > H > I'm afraid so. There are some excellent folks out there, when you knowH > how to find them - more often by sheer luck than good management. Many, > I would not trust to park my car properly. > B > Too much dogma, and belief that their way is the only way, IMHO.  D Do you realize how silly that would sound to any non-VMS fanatic whoC has been reading cov for any short period time??  There are as many E people here who think we live in a "one size fits all" world as there  are in the Linux camp.   bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 01:53:04 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>+ Subject: Re: Future of Alpha and/or OpenVMS 2 Message-ID: <qumcnWGuOulUB2ygXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message # news:3DF0AEAF.18B1F995@127.0.0.1...  > val wrote:F > > 1) Can someone provide pointers to where HP's plans for continuing OpenVMS  > > development are summarized? H > > 2) Can someone provide pointers to where the end of life roadmap for Alpha  > > might be found? I > > 3) Would anyone care to share opinions on what the real., most likely : > > end-game will be for either or both Alpha and OpenVMS? > D > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm > G > No endgame for OpenVMS. The powerpoint is better because the speakers 2 > notes pages are populated with more information.  G Well, prior to 6/25/01, there was no endgame for Alpha, either:  things J changed very suddenly and very drastically on that date, with zero advance notice.   E It's worth noting that the above roadmap says *nothing* about any VMS C release after V8.2 in 2004H1, at most 18 months from now.  The only E VMS-related activity of *any* kind mentioned thereafter is DECnet and L Directory stuff at the end of 2004 and a TCP/IP release in 2005.  Given thatH I believe an HP person recently commented that they were only allowed toL discuss activity within the rolling 5-year roadmap period, the fact that VMSG activity is being described for less than 1/3 of that time period seems  decidedly ominous.  F Many people here would like to believe that VMS has a long and healthyG future ahead of it, but the facts do not support such optimism (nor, of J course, do they absolutely prove anything to the contrary, since HP is notK about to announce the demise of VMS before it finds it convenient to do so: K it's far more likely to promise earnestly a long and bright future, just as F Compaq did for Alpha while planning its demise).  Realistically, whileL depending on VMS remaining available in more or less its V8.2 state (but notG necessarily at its current price) for quite a while may not be all that L risky, depending upon VMS to keep up with most new industry developments any* time beyond 2004 seems quite risky indeed.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:11:14 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> * Subject: Re: Good Job in Good Environment!' Message-ID: <3DF158C2.C1451989@fsi.net>    Jason O'Donnell wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DEEAE22.1EE89867@fsi.net>... > > Jason O'Donnell wrote: > > > 
 > > > All, > > > L > > > H&R Block has an OVMS Admin position available in Columbus, Ohio.  See> > > > our website or Monster.  They are finally taking away my( > > > responsibility as backup sysadmin. > > > 6 > > > It is a great environment here!  Great benefits! > > 9 > > Any ballpark on what the job pays? Is relo available?  > ? > The range is very wide, 30K.  The midpoint is in the mid-60s.  > H > Relocation assistance was not budgeted for this position.  However, if< > you are the right person HR might be able to do soemthing. > $ > The work environment here is tops!  F I've sent my Monster resume. We'll see if draws anyone's fire (I think# work may be monitoring this group.)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 20:35:41 -05002 From: "Timothy Stark" <sword7nospam@speakeasy.org>$ Subject: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems2 Message-ID: <La2cnW2NdvPzzWygXTWcqg@speakeasy.net>   Hello folks:  L I tried to boot my old VMS 7.2 system but it hung forever after it announcedL the OpenVMS banner.  I tried that again and again but it always happened the same.  Sometimes, it hung upL for several minutes then resumed to continue boot procedure before announced STARTUP.COM 
 executing.  J With my Hobbyist CD, I successfully installed and booted the fresh copy of OpenVMS 7.2 J without any problem.  I tried to boot a new copy a few times and it bootedL successful and quickly.  I believe that old copy of OpenVMS 7.2 system might6 messed up saved pagefile.sys on its system disk or so.  L Does anyone have similar experinece or any working-around solution to get my old copy of   OpenVMS 7.2 system disk to boot?  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:18:25 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems/ Message-ID: <3DF15A55.30D0C52E@vl.videotron.ca>    Timothy Stark wrote:N > the OpenVMS banner.  I tried that again and again but it always happened the > same.  Sometimes, it hung upN > for several minutes then resumed to continue boot procedure before announced
 > STARTUP.COM  > executing.  M I had this happen to me on an older SCSI drive. It would do the initial boot, L but as soon as VMS started to take control of the drive (as opposed to ROM),I it would hang. The reason was VMS sending the drive a SCSI-II command the H drive didn't understand and VMS going into mount verification because it& didn't get a response from the drive.   H The solution was to physically remove the power from the drive for a fewL seconds and re-power it, and then VMS would happyly continue to boot withoutL any more problems afterwards. But it would never continue on its own though.J This was with VMS 6.1 if I remember well. (When I switched drive, then all went well).   L > without any problem.  I tried to boot a new copy a few times and it bootedN > successful and quickly.  I believe that old copy of OpenVMS 7.2 system might8 > messed up saved pagefile.sys on its system disk or so.  J ANA/DISK/REPAIR disk:   would be your friend. You might also use SYSGEN toN CREATE new new page/swapfile, and when you reboot, the system will use the newC version of the file, at which point you can delete the old version.   $ (do HELP CREATE from inside SYSGEN).  N > Does anyone have similar experinece or any working-around solution to get my
 > old copy of " > OpenVMS 7.2 system disk to boot?  " Did it ever boot without problem ?  K If you boot from your other drive,  can you access the "faulty" drive ? you _ could then "exercise" the drive with commands such as DIR/FULL/OUTPUT=NL: disk:[000000...]*.*;*   P After it is complete, do a SHOW DEV/FULL disk: to see if any errors were logged.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:18:56 -05002 From: "Timothy Stark" <sword7nospam@speakeasy.org>( Subject: Re: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems2 Message-ID: <v-2cnavcxazBjG-gXTWcpg@speakeasy.net>   Folks,  J Ok, thank you for information.   I attached my new copy to DKA0, and moved my old copy toG DKA1.  I successfully booted a new copy of OpenVMS 7.2.  I attempted to  mount my oldE copy but MOUNT command hung forever.  I found out that my old copy is E corrupted because MOUNT told me that volume was imporerly mismounted, L rebulld in progress.  I let it to run overnight.  I woke up and checked whatF happened.  Rebuild procedure still is running!  I tried to kill it butI system hung forever.  Only way for solution is re-install everything. :-(   J I tried to run ANA/DISK but I was told that I must mount it first.  That's why I want to run 1 ANAYLZE/DISK_STRUCTURE/REPAIR to fix my old copy.   & That's why I am using my VAX emulator.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:34:12 +0200 6 From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman.remove-this@tzora.co.il>? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations * Message-ID: <3DF19664.2000907@tzora.co.il>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > a >>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >>< >>>No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaning$ >>>for gander other than male goose? >>	 >>   Yes.  > D Also "take a gander" as in "take a dekko" - now look for *that* one!   >  > Place in Newfoundland, no? >      --    & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm= Other useful links at http://eisner.decusserve.org/~rechtman/ E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* E Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337 C    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%" E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:07:15 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations ' Message-ID: <3DF157D3.FAB1A0E9@fsi.net>    Bob Koehler wrote: > a > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: = > > No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaning % > > for gander other than male goose?  > 	 >    Yes.    Place in Newfoundland, no?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:22:43 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations 8 Message-ID: <hhb4vuouvrkd4oe42478u5vp5048cfvr57@4ax.com>  1 On Sat, 07 Dec 2002 08:34:12 +0200, Mike Rechtman ) <rechtman.remove-this@tzora.co.il> wrote:    >  >  >David J. Dachtera wrote:  >> Bob Koehler wrote:  >>  b >>>In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKENGGCAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >>> = >>>>No offence intended, but am curious if there is a meaning % >>>>for gander other than male goose?  >>> 
 >>>   Yes. >>  E >Also "take a gander" as in "take a dekko" - now look for *that* one!  >  >>   >> Place in Newfoundland, no?  >>    O Okay, how about http://www.corkslang.com/term/dekkoordekho/ (dictionary of Cork 	 slang)... I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:27:43 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: Lat vs TCP/IP2 Message-ID: <3DF14DDA.8DD8C843@firstdbasource.com>   "John N." wrote: > J > I read a discussion that touched on this recently, but I cannot find it. > E > Years ago, we implemented several applications based on LAT.  These M > applications received requests from customers and passed the requests on to M > the appropriate system.  LAT was chosen largely because of better fail-over G > and load balancing capabilities (than TCP/IP).  But it was also chose J > because it was an integral part of  VMS (This was in the VAX VMS 4/VMS 5J > days).  The question is now arising as to whether this explanation stillN > holds water, or should we move to TCP/IP, which is much more widely used and6 > understood.   We are now on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 * 7.3-1. > G > Security, Reliability and Performance (in pretty much that order) are  > extremely important to us. > M > Can a case be made for keeping LAT?   What are some of the pros and cons of # > each (as compared to each other).  > 	 > thanks.   B One benefit of TCPIP vs. LAT is that TCPIP is routable (instead ofD bridges).  This discussion will depend largely on whether or not youB need that functionality and how much re-coding will be required to
 replace it.     H What type of fucntional application are we talking about? Real-time data# collection? Terminal access? etc...    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:50:05 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Lat vs TCP/IP/ Message-ID: <3DF16FCA.762B6C35@vl.videotron.ca>    Michael Austin wrote: 9 > One benefit of TCPIP vs. LAT is that TCPIP is routable    J But this may also be a draw back if security is an issue. LAT cannot leaveE your organisation to go to the internet. (or vice versa), TELNET can.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:57:26 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>  Subject: Re: Lat vs TCP/IP: Message-ID: <GToI9.150$VA5.169758@news1.news.adelphia.net>   John N. wrote:  G > I read a discussion that touched on this recently, but I cannot find   > it.  >  <snip> > G > Security, Reliability and Performance (in pretty much that order) are  >  extremely important to us.  > F > Can a case be made for keeping LAT?   What are some of the pros and + > cons of each (as compared to each other).   D I am not aware of any plans to change LAT in OpenVMS, and there are I still third party vendors that sell terminal server devices that support   LAT.  F I would recommend that you check with the third parties on what their  long term plans are.  G Now I have used both LAT and TCP/IP in manufacturing applications, and  F the major difference that will be visible to you is what happens in a  network disruption.   H The LAT serial ports will start working again as soon as the network is J restored, and will signal an SS$_HANGUP when the network was disconnected.  I The TCP/IP ports were accessed by creating a TNAnnn: device to allow the  E same software as used the LTA ports to be used without modifications.   F In this case the only way that the software knew that the network was B disconnected was to use timer to send a poll to the remote device G periodiacally.  Recovery usually recovered deleting the TNAnnn: device   and recreating it.  E It is likely that a program directly written to use raw TCP/IP could   over come these issues though.  G In the application that TCP/IP was used instead of LAT, it was because  , LAT could no longer be bridged over the WAN.  @ I would continue to use LAT as long as it was available, but do 9 recommend seriously looking at testing a TCP/IP solution.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:04:11 -0700 $ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Lat vs TCP/IP) Message-ID: <3DF2381A.43DA6224@cha.ab.ca>   L We started with LAT over 20 years ago on VAX and are still using it on Alpha AS1200's and ES45's.M We still have serial printers and VT terminals connected to over 120 terminal  servers.E We added TCPWARE over 5 years ago and are still using it on AS1200's. = Since early this year we have been using HP TCP/IP on ES45's.   J All have proven to be robust regardless of the environment.  We do see the occasional stoppedM LAT print queue on jobs sent over from a remote Unix host (to VMS host to its  LAT print queue). N Rarely have I seen any TCPWARE prints queues in a stopped state.  In the short time we have6 been on HP TCP/IP, I have not seen any major problems.  N For printing redundancy, you may want to create the same print queues (LAT and TCPIP) on eachO of your production nodes.  For example, suppose you have 2 nodes A and B.  If a  user is logged into A,O their print jobs would go to A$printq1.  For the same user logged into B, their  print jobs would go to B$printq1.  L LAT does provide true load balancing using a LAT service name whereas TCP/IP
 provides aO round robin of the available nodes for a telnet service name.  However, we have  found that theO round robin is adequate in distributing our productions users among the cluster  nodes.  J We do get the occasional trouble call from users complaining of a hung LAT session, but then C we also get complaints of hung Windows sessions on the VMS cluster.      "John N." wrote:  J > I read a discussion that touched on this recently, but I cannot find it. > E > Years ago, we implemented several applications based on LAT.  These M > applications received requests from customers and passed the requests on to M > the appropriate system.  LAT was chosen largely because of better fail-over G > and load balancing capabilities (than TCP/IP).  But it was also chose J > because it was an integral part of  VMS (This was in the VAX VMS 4/VMS 5J > days).  The question is now arising as to whether this explanation stillN > holds water, or should we move to TCP/IP, which is much more widely used and6 > understood.   We are now on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 * 7.3-1. > G > Security, Reliability and Performance (in pretty much that order) are  > extremely important to us. > M > Can a case be made for keeping LAT?   What are some of the pros and cons of # > each (as compared to each other).  > 	 > thanks.    -- Lee   ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authority ? Email: lytmah@cha.ab.ca            Information Systems, RAH CSC 4 Phone:  (780) 477-4725, 477-4233   10240 Kingsway NW? Fax:      (780) 491-5119, 491-5619    Edmonton, AB, CAN  T5H3V9    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 10:05:06 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)6 Subject: Re: Netscape 2.02 & VAX/VMS 7.3 & Motif 1.2-62 Message-ID: <mJjI9.30760$A9.459588@news.chello.at>  b In article <3def90dd$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:. >>>   Not sure who contributed this reference:P >>>>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/ns_navigator_303goldj_dow >>>> nload_page.html >>? >>That was me. But as I wrote "it used to be". It is no longer.  >  >The correct link  > M >>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/ns_navigator_303gold_dow  >nload_page.html > 5 >works just fine.  (You had an extraneous "j" in it.)   M That explains it. But I did bookmark the link where I downloaded NS3.03 from. K The "j" was correct at this time. Maybe because of the Non-JAVA Version for J Alpha then (this is not existing as a final version, only the JAVA versionM for Alpha became final). DEC did obviously change the link sometimes later...    Thanks for finding out   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 14:30:03 GMT , From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?5 Message-ID: <ast0la$ue8qd$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ' In article <3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>, 4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:B > In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andF > Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forE > Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.  >  > * > SUN PONDERS OFFERING OPEN-SOURCE SOLARIS > - > Posted December 05, 2002 12:58 Pacific Time  > 8 > SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems is pondering whether7 > or not to offer Solaris code in an open-source format 6 > to boost deployment of the operating system on Intel8 > hardware, but questions remain about the effectiveness0 > of open source, a Sun official said this week. > 4 > The company is looking at allowing users to access$ > Solaris in an open-source format,   < Maybe Andrew can field this one, but before anyone here gets< overly concerned about an "Open Source" Solaris offering yet= another threat to VMS I think it should be explained how they = can "Open SOurce" something that is still covered by patents, : copyrights and trade secrets they don't own.  It should be; noted that while the current owner of that IP have released ; some of it it only cover Unix upt to about 32V and does not > include System V on which Solaris is built.  Now, if they were< still using SunOS perhaps this might be possible (although I< could be wrong about that too as I haven't really researched< the ancestry of every Unix version) but I don't believe even SYS III is free yet.     > " > Are there any further questions?   See the above!!    >  > The defense rests.   1 The court rules in favor of the prosecution.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 19:59:44 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>   @ In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andD Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forC Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.     ( SUN PONDERS OFFERING OPEN-SOURCE SOLARIS  + Posted December 05, 2002 12:58 Pacific Time   6 SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems is pondering whether5 or not to offer Solaris code in an open-source format 4 to boost deployment of the operating system on Intel6 hardware, but questions remain about the effectiveness. of open source, a Sun official said this week.  2 The company is looking at allowing users to access1 Solaris in an open-source format, noting that the 1 recent early release program for Solaris 9 on the 2 Intel x86 platform has generated about 1.4 million- downloads for the $20 offering, said Jonathan 4 Schwartz, Sun executive vice president for software.2 Schwartz spoke during an interview Tuesday evening6 prior to a private Sun-sponsored screening of the film "Solaris" in San Francisco.      For the full story: R http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/12/05/021205hnopensolaris.xml?1206fram   ******  E Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 and Affordable OpenVMS should note the H number and price of downloads for Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.    Are there any further questions?   The defense rests.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:13:32 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DF23A4C.749F81CF@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>, = >         "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: D > > In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andH > > Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forG > > Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.t > >e > >i, > > SUN PONDERS OFFERING OPEN-SOURCE SOLARIS > >m/ > > Posted December 05, 2002 12:58 Pacific Time  > >p: > > SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems is pondering whether9 > > or not to offer Solaris code in an open-source formate8 > > to boost deployment of the operating system on Intel: > > hardware, but questions remain about the effectiveness2 > > of open source, a Sun official said this week. > >s6 > > The company is looking at allowing users to access% > > Solaris in an open-source format,  > > > Maybe Andrew can field this one, but before anyone here gets> > overly concerned about an "Open Source" Solaris offering yet? > another threat to VMS I think it should be explained how theys? > can "Open SOurce" something that is still covered by patents,u< > copyrights and trade secrets they don't own.  It should be= > noted that while the current owner of that IP have releasedg= > some of it it only cover Unix upt to about 32V and does notw@ > include System V on which Solaris is built.  Now, if they were> > still using SunOS perhaps this might be possible (although I> > could be wrong about that too as I haven't really researched> > the ancestry of every Unix version) but I don't believe even > SYS III is free yet. >  > > $ > > Are there any further questions? >  > See the above!!e >  > >  > > The defense rests. > 3 > The court rules in favor of the prosecution.  :-)a  G In the case of the industry vs. VMS, VMS is found guilty as charged adn.@ sentenced to death. The court will reconvene at a future date to  determine the date of execution.   -- o David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:26:43 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: Pathworks Mac vs VMS 7.3-1G2 Message-ID: <TVkI9.31975$A9.473030@news.chello.at>  b In article <20021205083321.25b326b9.mathog@caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: >[PW/Mac problem snipped] 9 >However this does raise the interesting possibility thatA? >the PW/Mac failure on 7.3-1 is caused by an actual bug in that = >version of the OS rather than a new version incompatibility.PB >Or to put it another way, if PW/Mac didn't do anything beyond the= >API specs perhaps it really should continue to work with all- >future versions of VMS?    8 Did I tell you already, that I see V7.3-1 as a mistake ?C It is not what the version number makes us believe, a maint versionjH (means a rollup of all patches), it also does introduce new features andD behaviour changes. And new features bring new bugs (most of the bugsG fixed with VMS731 ECOs didn't exist in pure VMS73) so a layered productf8 recertification would have been a good thing in my eyes.  E I think DEC/DIGITAL/COMPAQ/Hewlett-Packard/HP/name-of-the-year shoulds have called it OpenVMS V7.4.  G >Well, on VAX/Alpha anyway.  Since PW/Mac is a dead product it probably G >won't ever make it onto the Itanium.  Not that I expect VMS to survive 4 >that transition either, no matter what HP tells us.  G I fear the same, but as all of you already know I do hope the opposite.s   -- e Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERV% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 13:23:32 -0500+ From: "Andrew Robert" <arobert@townisp.com>dF Subject: Question on VMS system authentication using perl and web page/ Message-ID: <uv4f5mpvfakk02@corp.supernews.com>0   Hi Everyone,  ? I have a Alpha GS-140 running VMS and Compaq Secure Web Server.:  I Using Perl, I have been able to add several nice features to our internal3* web server but I have one stumbling block.  I I'd like to add access to some application reports but the information ise for authorized users only.  I Does anyone know how to add system level authentication via Perl to a web  page for VMS system access?N   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 18:50:40 -0000r4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>J Subject: Re: Question on VMS system authentication using perl and web page5 Message-ID: <20021207185040.9189.qmail@nym.alias.net>d  @ On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, "Andrew Robert" <arobert@townisp.com> wrote:  @ >I have a Alpha GS-140 running VMS and Compaq Secure Web Server. >kJ >Using Perl, I have been able to add several nice features to our internal+ >web server but I have one stumbling block.  > J >I'd like to add access to some application reports but the information is >for authorized users only.o > J >Does anyone know how to add system level authentication via Perl to a web >page for VMS system access?  I Whilst I am not familiar with CSWS, what I would suggest doing is lookingrJ to see what authentication the web server can provide. In this way you can; prevent unauthorized users gaining access to these scripts.e  I I'd also point out that unless this is only on a well-configured LAN, you-H should restrict authentication to https and prevent use of accounts with( elevated privileges for such operations.  I As a double-check, I'd also include code within the Perl script to verify-C that the appropriate parameters have been set by the authentication- process.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netk   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 05:15:43 -0800 ) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)rK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupn= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0212070515.262ef904@posting.google.com>s  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15988.B4EFA873@fsi.net>... > Patrick Young wrote:
 > > [snip]I > > Patrick "happy! got two new unused boxed RA8000s for Aus$5800" Young.o >  > Damn! Great buy!  = Yup, it was not too bad. One with dual HSG80s and one single.h  B Online auction sale... there was a *big fat* GS160 on the list butC it went for AUS$107500 - we stopped at $60K. Interesting on how theIA bidding closed - the serious folk waited each other out until thef last 30 seconds.  A At extra cost we also got a SAN switch and an extra drive for ouri TL891.  9 Weird feeling putting in the bets from my OpenVMS/Mozillan? workstation at work - *hell* of a lot of fun though (even whilee being watched over).    Now, I get to play with SANs :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:28:21 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>oK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupnK Message-ID: <9w9I9.288864$MGm1.255108@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:JkRvXSIuSZDj@eisner.encompasserve.org...o< > In article <3DEF8348.64B322FE@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman$ <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:J > > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toI > > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this is K > > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large that K > > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts.-K > > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroup". > > have simply been ignored by the offenders. > >c >RH >    If I can't post a sound-off here every now and then maybe I'll just >    leave.< >a? >    Sorry, but there's just too little on-topic to talk about.1    J Just to point out an example of what might be considered to be 'off topic'E threads in this NG, there has been a thread in the past week entitleda5 "Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations".-  F By the charter proposed for a new VMS NG, this is not specifically VMSI related, hence it would be bounced. Yet many of us are responsible at oneDL level or another in our respective organizations for ensuring that somethingH like this is enabled. So while the o/s specific implementations were notJ discussed, the general strategy and implications thereof were. Maybe thereL are better NG's to have a discussion about this subject in, but since we allL deal with email everyday, in one form or another, I think that this topic is2 a most germaine subject for a group such as c.o.v.  L To me, truly OT stuff are the discussions that arise when some people get upI on soapboxes to talk about their favorite AK-47 and the like. But I don'thG mind this happening as long as the Subject line is cleatly tagged - OT:lK Jingoism, or OT: My Country Right Or Wrong. Then it's easy to skip over the  noise.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 00:53:31 GMT 0 From: rw@vorpalbunnyeircom.net (Russell Wallace)K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup / Message-ID: <3df145cc.26444861@news.eircom.net>   1 On Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:48:08 -0800, Mark Berrymann# <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote:v  G >I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process tol( >make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.   [...]n  I >Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject?(  A I think comp.os.vms is better the way it is. That said, I have nohD objection to having a moderated group alongside it - but it seems toE me far more sensible to leave the existing group unchanged and set up-C a moderated group under a new title. For that matter, why not startBC off by creating a moderated mailing list or web site? That could beo@ done by anyone, immediately, without having to go through formal	 channels.    -- a3 "Mercy to the guilty is treachery to the innocent."1+ Remove killer rodent from address to reply.s! http://www.esatclear.ie/~rwallace'   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:14:32 -0600C1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup ' Message-ID: <3DF15988.B4EFA873@fsi.net>    Patrick Young wrote: > [snip]G > Patrick "happy! got two new unused boxed RA8000s for Aus$5800" Young.d   Damn! Great buy!   --   David J. DachteraO dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:18:30 -0600y1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupg' Message-ID: <3DF15A76.ED0EB1E1@fsi.net>0   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > R > In article <3DF0451D.5010003@telocity.com>, Koloth <koloth@telocity.com> writes: > > > > How about keeping this group but also creating a moderated2 > > comp.os.openvms.technical or something similar > P > I don't believe the powers that be allow an A.B.C.D in combination with A.B.C.   How 'bout A.B.C-D?  C Hyphens appear to be valid: vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet is real 
 newsgroup.   -- m David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:39:11 GMT,( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup ; Message-ID: <z3eI9.802$Fq3.134033@twister.southeast.rr.com>d  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DF013F2.23253586@fsi.net...e  G > protect that the entire effort may be self-defeating: by "strangling" E > this group (probably the only pro-VMS contingent on the 'net), suche  H Ah, I beg to differ?  I consider all the people that visit OpenVMS.org a# group. So that makes two groups. :)-   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org.        < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DF013F2.23253586@fsi.net...  > Mark Berryman wrote: > > J > > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toI > > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this is K > > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thateK > > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts.nK > > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroupG. > > have simply been ignored by the offenders. > >bI > > Before submitting the formal proposal, however (which will need to betE > > cross-posted to news.groups and news.announce.newgroups) it seemstE > > worthwhile to begin an informal discussion with the denizens here H > > regarding their thoughts on the subject.  It may be that no one elseI > > cares how non-VMSy this newsgroup has become (or, perhaps, not enoughiL > > others see it as "noisy" as the few I've been in communication with do). > >yL > > So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the# > > creation of two new newsgroups:- > > 3 > > comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatedS5 > > comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderated7 > >o1 > > and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.a > >.E > > The charter of the technical group would be, as its name implies,nK > > technical discussions that directly relate in some way to OpenVMS.  Anyi- > > posting not so related would be rejected.  > >nH > > The gateway to the Info-VAX mailing list would move to the technical1 > > newsgroup and it would have the same charter.i > >,L > > Moderation would be automated.  A list would be maintained of anyone whoK > > has previously posted an on-topic message to the newsgroup.  SubsequentlG > > postings from that address would be immediately approved and, thus,dL > > experience very little delay in reaching the usenet community.  PostingsH > > from first-time posters (or from posters who posted off-topic enoughH > > times to be removed from the auto-moderation list) would be manually> > > screened by a moderator before being approved for posting. > >zL > > Forged postings, as with forged Approved: headers, would be handled on a+ > > case-by-case basis by the moderator(s).. > > L > > Does anyone else have any thoughts they'd care to share on this subject? >tG > Well, if comp.os.vms disappears, what happens on Google Groups? Do wee: > lose the wealth of so many years of searchable articles? >T5 > If so, then I'd have to vote against this approach.a >lF > I don't mind most of the off-topic stuff. In fact, I find some of itJ > quite educational. It's the nasty stuff I think we could all do without.J > I've blown my stack here more than once (posts including stuff like "YOU= > GOTTA BE S--TTING ME!" and so on), so I'm as guilty as any.a >sI > Dunno - changes are always slow to catch on, especially when there's sorH > many searchable archives and articles in them pointing to comp.os.vms.D > Their loss may be sufficiently destructive of the ends you seek toG > protect that the entire effort may be self-defeating: by "strangling"eE > this group (probably the only pro-VMS contingent on the 'net), suchbG > efforts to gaurd VMS and its proponents may result in the accelerateda1 > death of VMS's presence on the 'net as a whole.  >tH > I understand the motivation, but I think the effects may be the resultF > of causes beyond our control. I have (somewhere) a draft of a post IB > never sent - a rather long rant essentially responding to (then)F > Compaq's complaints about the negativity here. My gist was that theyA > don't understand that if they want the negativity to cease, theaI > provocations must cease first (killing off vital products, lies, brokenoI > promises, etc.). Until that happens (not likely), the "venting" here is? > likely to continue.u >tF > So, trying to moderate the group may be likened to a "band-aid fix":G > covers the outward sign of the "disease", but does nothing to cure it.3 > and so the "patient" dies a more insidious death.: > B > Also, it seems a bit too "parental": the children won't exerciseH > restraint, so we'll have to censor them. Probably very popular in HP's; > board room, but I doubt it will be so well received here.s >- > My $0.02, YMMV...X >p > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >n* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:38:39 -0600h1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>rK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupn' Message-ID: <3DF17B4F.192F0813@fsi.net>    Ken Farmer wrote:h > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DF013F2.23253586@fsi.net...y > I > > protect that the entire effort may be self-defeating: by "strangling"aG > > this group (probably the only pro-VMS contingent on the 'net), suchI > J > Ah, I beg to differ?  I consider all the people that visit OpenVMS.org a% > group. So that makes two groups. :)-  + Aye, but with a good overlap, for sure! ;-)    -- : David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 11:59:04 -0600o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>IK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupf' Message-ID: <3DF236E8.70B9262B@fsi.net>s   Patrick Young wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15988.B4EFA873@fsi.net>... > > Patrick Young wrote: > > > [snip]K > > > Patrick "happy! got two new unused boxed RA8000s for Aus$5800" Young.. > >p > > Damn! Great buy! > ? > Yup, it was not too bad. One with dual HSG80s and one single.h > D > Online auction sale... there was a *big fat* GS160 on the list butE > it went for AUS$107500 - we stopped at $60K. Interesting on how thehC > bidding closed - the serious folk waited each other out until the  > last 30 seconds.  G That's called "sniping" an auction. The trick seems to be to enter yoursF absolute highest price initially and let proxy bidding handle the last7 minute snipers trying to guess your highest bid amount.-  C > At extra cost we also got a SAN switch and an extra drive for our  > TL891. > ; > Weird feeling putting in the bets from my OpenVMS/MozillasA > workstation at work - *hell* of a lot of fun though (even whilef > being watched over).  ? Yeah - the watchers get to see that ven VMS can be a "me, too".o  " > Now, I get to play with SANs :-)  + I'm having it stuck down my throat at work.f  D (Yes, this is "off topic", but that's the way conversation goes some times.)l   -- N David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:46:21 GMT0( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>Y Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No  thanks! < Message-ID: <hJoI9.1291$Fq3.190422@twister.southeast.rr.com>  0 Just trying to see who's getting the newsletter.  , I just chopped off most of it.  Take a look:  = http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-RegistrationI  	 You like?E   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.OpenVMS.org      = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagea) news:3DF17F09.A0F0F08C@vl.videotron.ca...a > Ken Farmer wrote:gA > > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registration  >kJ >  For an email newsletter you sure ask for a lot of personal details. Why not % > ask for type/"colour of underwear ?m   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 01:50:56 GMT-( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>X Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks!; Message-ID: <4ucI9.630$Fq3.124269@twister.southeast.rr.com>w  H Anyone that gets the newsletter knows I only do text.  This list will beJ text only.  You guys must not be subscribed to the OpenVMS.org newsletter. :(   <plug>< Here's where you can subscribe to the OpenVM.org newsletter:= http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-RegistrationoH It's a monthly text newsletter that basically summarizes the past monthsL news and whatever else seems appropriate at the time when I put it together.I I update everyone on news about OpenVMS.org, upcoming events, patches and J other related material including original articles.  It does have ads from) vendors (hey, I gotta make a living too).o </plug>i  K I'll let you guys know when the openvms-managers-list is setup and where toeK subscribe once I've tested it for a few days.  I'll also put together a FAQ L and rules for the list.  I won't moderate at first and see how it goes.  The= FAQ and rules will plainly state it is a technical list ONLY.d  K Any more volunteers for testing?  So far I only have one.  We can do betterfK than that guys.  You'll only need to confirm reception of messages and send < a few of your own.  Email me with your REAL email address at kfarmer@openvms.org.  H Does anyone like the sound of a "daily tip" list with a tip or somethingH else contributed by the community (if I can get someone to participate)?    8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:o5U5dQLPh3jw@eisner.encompasserve.org...l   > Larry K. will rip into ya.  # Been there with related issues.  :)   < > The very last thing I want to do is to slog my way throughB > pop-up ads or "click here... click here... click here.."  Sheesh" > we all do too much of that crud.   I'm with you on that.o  F > Text Usenet is still very much alive even with whizzier GUIs and Web > available.   True.,  ( > Nothing personal, I do like your site.  ; Thanks.  :)  I understand totally where you're coming from.    > But USENET is a whole lotvI > faster and easier to slog through with a proper newsreader.(1)  I thinkiD > the issue is the poor folks that are only gatewayed.  They get theE > brunt of trying to sort through emails off topic or topics that arerG > uninteresting to them.  It takes me all of 30 seconds to sort throughaG > 100 topics with a newsreader, (looking for something interesting) andn- > that estimate is probably on the high side.D  K One of the problems with c.o.v is not many CIO/CEO's read it.  I know therea7 are some, but most can only open up a browser and surf.i   Ken    --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.Tru64.org http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.LinuxHPC.org    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:14:19 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks! r/ Message-ID: <3DF12133.C77B572D@vl.videotron.ca>n   Rob Young wrote:D >         The very last thing I want to do is to slog my way throughJ >         pop-up ads or "click here... click here... click here.."  Sheesh* >         we all do too much of that crud.  B The end of the world must be near, because I agree with Rob Young.    N >         Text Usenet is still very much alive even with whizzier GUIs and Web >         available.  I There is however a constant pressure by newbies to bring in the microsoft : religion (top posting and html). It is hard to fight this.  G >         There is something very good about plain old text... the besttH >         thing of all is it is lightweight.  Not unlike reading a book.K >         The day a book comes to electronics and stays there - with pop-upe@ >         ads to go with it - is the day I don't read new books.  K I think that those two black holes that are to collide to create the end of L the universe just got much close because I also agree with Mr Young on this.  K >         Nothing personal, I do like your site.  But USENET is a whole lotdH >         faster and easier to slog through with a proper newsreader.(1)  M BREAKING NEWS: those two black holes will collide tonight. I definitely agreeb% with Mr Young on this. HTML is SLOW.    J > (1)  Page up and page down on a text based newsreader.  Know how long itM >      takes a >>STUPID<< web-based newsreader to give you the next screen of3 >      HTML and paint that?     K Dogs will mate with cats. The computer that implemented the laws of physicsSK has crashed and the universe will cease to exist. I agree wholeheartely. IttQ was impossible in the past to have such agreement between myself and Mr Young :-)n  L Seriously though, I found it very interesting that a day or two ago, someoneL complained about the VMS documentation now being in one long page that takesN time to image. But the main advantage is that you don't have to wait 2 minutesC between each page since you can then scrool and read uninterrupted.P  J (and as far as pop-uo ads, I have long turned off javascript and that does wonders to make things faster).r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 23:55:14 -0500t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks! h/ Message-ID: <3DF17F09.A0F0F08C@vl.videotron.ca>m   Ken Farmer wrote: ? > http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Newsletter-Registrationu  L  For an email newsletter you sure ask for a lot of personal details. Why not# ask for type/"colour of underwear ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 00:57:47 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: SoftPC on VMS2 Message-ID: <fIbI9.25728$A9.401848@news.chello.at>  b In article <3DEDC6AE.B50F3038@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:L >Last century (back when Digital was Digital), there was a DOS/8086 emulatorN >that ran on VMS, giving VT users a character cell interface to DOS. I believe >it was called SoftPC. p   Yup.  K >Does anyone know what happened to it ? Would this still be available ? Anyp >hopes as a hobbyist ?  I It became (with V5.0) SOFTWINDOWS (which was Alpha-only) then and died at K about the same time. It was removed from the VMS ConDist CDs at about 1998.   G Performance was horrible and to top it doing nothing used also 100% CPU F of the VMS system (it uses an endless loop in idle mode and not a HALT" instruction or something similar).    L >I have a few DOS programs that have some problems with the RS232 port on myK >MAC when running the windows emulator, and it would be nice if I could runoN >those on my VAX, hoping the RS232 support would be more complete (which would, >allow me to reverse engineer the protocol).  & I think you'll find other solutions...   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERp% Network and OpenVMS system specialisth E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 14:57:39 +0100-1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>1= Subject: Subject line ! (was Re: Request for Discussion, ...)u5 Message-ID: <3DF1FE53.E72BB64C@swissonline.delete.ch>e  E Sorry guys but do you really think that "Request for Discussion, make1F comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup" was an appropriate subject for your postings mentioned below ??r  F I'm not for a moment going to say that it was really OT as regards VMSC but I figure it was OT regards the subject title line that you use.m  H Don't take too much offence because there are plenty of other people whoF do this same thing.  These kinds of twists of subject but retention of' subject line are very common in c.o.v..s  H I wonder how many people will read your email - and this one - when they7 are looking for what has been discussd on this subject.h     cheers   John McLeani       Patrick Young wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15988.B4EFA873@fsi.net>... > > Patrick Young wrote: > > > [snip]K > > > Patrick "happy! got two new unused boxed RA8000s for Aus$5800" Young.N > >G > > Damn! Great buy! > ? > Yup, it was not too bad. One with dual HSG80s and one single.N > D > Online auction sale... there was a *big fat* GS160 on the list butE > it went for AUS$107500 - we stopped at $60K. Interesting on how the.C > bidding closed - the serious folk waited each other out until theM > last 30 seconds. > C > At extra cost we also got a SAN switch and an extra drive for ourC > TL891. > ; > Weird feeling putting in the bets from my OpenVMS/Mozilla A > workstation at work - *hell* of a lot of fun though (even while  > being watched over). > " > Now, I get to play with SANs :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:38:32 GMTyL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")A Subject: Re: Testing for status of remote host via web CGI scriptm6 Message-ID: <00A180B5.3B9D66C5@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <00A180E5.3AB6943C.33@leva.leeds.ac.uk>, Ted Allwood <support@leva.leeds.ac.uk> writes:% >I thought this would be easy, but...  >o9 >I have two webservers running on the Local Area Network.n( >Web1 is a VMS 7.1, UCX 4.2, OSU system.H >Web2 is an embedded server in a webcam which monitors a lab experiment. >bG >The aim is to run a non-privileged CGI DCL script on Web1 to determinefD >the status (up/down) of Web2.  It should report back to the user's 7 >web browser in not more than 30 secs, preferably less.y >t >Things I've tried:d >a8 >1. Grab Web2's home page via the freeware Wget utility.3 >   Then F$search to see if the file was retrieved. 9 >   This works but, if Web2 is down, the timeout intervald> >   is too long at 75 secs.  Wget has a -T timeout option but,B >   as far as I can tell, relates to the file retrieval completion% >   once a connection is established.e   [snippage of other ideas]r  O For something like this, I use Perl with LWP (which is bundled in the pre-built 8 VMS Perl distribution at www.sidhe.org).  Works a treat.  K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------  require LWP::UserAgent;  $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new;  ' $timeout = 20;  # timeout is in secondsn1 $URL = "http://web2";  # or whatever URL this is..   $ua->timeout($timeout);|  - $request = HTTP::Request->new('GET', $URL ); d  J # This is a GET request.  If you're worried about file system latency, youL # can use a HEAD request.  You could use other features of LWP::UserAgent toK # do a PING.  None of this requires privileges, not even installing Perl ifi: # you define process logicals rather than system logicals.  # $response = $ua->request($request);l   # check the outcomer!   if (!($response->is_success)) {, #vF #  Do what you want to do if the webcam is down.  DCL commands can be " #  executed via the system() call. #m   }5K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------w  K Note that you can use the CGI.PM package (documentation easily available inmJ book stores or by google search) to dynamically create an appropriate page6 with either the picture or a "webcam is down" message.     -- Alanh    O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025rO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:01:31 GMTo1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>eA Subject: Re: Testing for status of remote host via web CGI scripto2 Message-ID: <3DF155B0.AD90C446@firstdbasource.com>   Ted Allwood wrote: > & > I thought this would be easy, but... > : > I have two webservers running on the Local Area Network.) > Web1 is a VMS 7.1, UCX 4.2, OSU system.tI > Web2 is an embedded server in a webcam which monitors a lab experiment.  > H > The aim is to run a non-privileged CGI DCL script on Web1 to determineD > the status (up/down) of Web2.  It should report back to the user's8 > web browser in not more than 30 secs, preferably less. >  > Things I've tried: > 9 > 1. Grab Web2's home page via the freeware Wget utility.n4 >    Then F$search to see if the file was retrieved.: >    This works but, if Web2 is down, the timeout interval? >    is too long at 75 secs.  Wget has a -T timeout option but,pC >    as far as I can tell, relates to the file retrieval completiont& >    once a connection is established. >  > 2. UCX PING or TRACEROUTE. >    No good; needs privileges > ' > 3. FTP (using Hunter Goatley's HGFTP)EC >    Web2 doesn't run an ftp server, but that doesn't matter as themJ >    responses system-f-reject or system-f-timeout could be distinguished.? >    But the latter takes about a minute to respond - too long.t >  > 4. TelneteC >    Same general idea as the ftp test but (AFAIK) this couldn't bet* >    done from within a command procedure. >  > Any better ideas, please.  > 
 > Regards, > Tedg >  > --M > Support@leva.leeds.ac.uk                                Tel:  0113 34 32167c- > www.mech-eng.leeds.ac.uk/support/index.html I > School of Mechanical Engineering,  University of Leeds,  Leeds  LS2 9JTh    G I use this to log into my Linksys router to get the current, dynamic IPe address E (my passord has been munged.. not that I don't trust you or anything,' but, I don't :)    $!!! GETURL.PL% $PERL :== $PERL_ROOT:[000000]PERL.EXErD $PERL -w    !!This, after all, starts out as a DCL command procedure use Getopt::Long;m use Sys::Hostname; use IO::Socket;f       $0 = "findIP";     my $version  = "3.5.4";b     my $programd  = $0;      $programd =~ s%^.*/%%;     my $program   = $programd;     $program  =~ s/d$//;     my $now       = time;e     my $hostname  = hostname();.     my ($peer, $server, $port);t$     my ($sd, $rq, $request, $reply);C     my $url = "HTTP://192.168.1.1:80/Status.htm"; ### YOUR URL HERE        $url    =~ s%^HTTP://%%i;c     $server = $url;s     $server =~ s%/.*%%;y&     $url    = "/" unless $url =~ m%/%;     $url    =~ s%^[^/]*/%%;u  &     ## determine peer and port to use.     $peer   = $server;     $peer   =~ s%/.*%%;c     $port   = $peer;     $port   =~ s%^.*:%%;)     $port   = 80 unless $port =~ /^\d+$/;/     $peer   =~ s%:.*$%%;  : ## The $auth and authorization may or may not be needed...2     my $auth = encode_base64("munged:mypassword");     $request  = "GET ";M#     $request .= "/$url HTTP/1.0\n";.-     $request .= "Authorization: Basic $auth";86     $request .= "User-Agent: ${program}/${version}\n";%     $request .= "Connection: open\n";s     $request .= "\n";   B ## make sure newlines are <cr><lf> for some pedantic proxy servers$     ($rq = $request) =~ s/\n/\r\n/g;     local $^W = 0;1    $sd = IO::Socket::INET->new(PeerAddr => $peer, 3                                  PeerPort => $port,e4                                  Proto    => 'tcp');"     my $result = send $sd, $rq, 0;%         if ($result != length($rq)) {h<             printf("cannot send to 192.168.1.1:80 ($!).\n");         } else {              while ($_ = <$sd>) {+                 $reply .= $_ if defined $_;e            }        printf(" $reply\n");f             close($sd);o
          }  7 ## if authorization is not needed, this may be omitted.  sub encode_base64 ($;$) {c     my $res = '';e     my $eol = $_[1];$     $eol = "\n" unless defined $eol;B     pos($_[0]) = 0;                          # ensure start at the	 beginning,$     while ($_[0] =~ /(.{1,45})/gs) {)         $res .= substr(pack('u', $1), 1);a         chop($res);m     }t@     $res =~ tr|` -_|AA-Za-z0-9+/|;               # `# help emacs       # fix padding at the end.     my $padding = (3 - length($_[0]) % 3) % 3;8     $res =~ s/.{$padding}$/'=' x $padding/e if $padding;  H     # break encoded string into lines of no more than 76 characters each     if (length $eol) {%         $res =~ s/(.{1,76})/$1$eol/g;-     }-	     $res;- }-J ==========================================================================  
 and a simple:j  - $pipe @geturl.pl |sear sys$input http/out=nl:p( $if .not. $STATUS then <it's not up>....     -- s Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 03:05:33 GMTp From: dittman@dittman.netf6 Subject: Third-Party Fibre Channel Storage Controllers6 Message-ID: <1AdI9.3042$6W4.2559@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>  ; OpenVMS requires the UDID to be set for OpenVMS.  Are there-: any third-party storage controllers that allow setting the9 UDID?  I've seen some inexpensive storage controllers and 9 with the latent FC-AL support in V7.3-1 I'm curious aboutg9 trying some of them, especially if they use FC to talk to 4 the drives as well as the host as FC drives are less expensive than the SCSI drives.i  : I'd be using a KGPSA-C, although I also have a KGPSA-B.  I< also have copper interfaces I can use instead of the optical interfaces.a -- e Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.neto= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 13:54:04 GMTe. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: Re: VMS73_SYS05 (& VMS731_SYS02) kills dce, pathworks, goldfax ?t2 Message-ID: <04nI9.33974$A9.507750@news.chello.at>  i In article <aspt4c$mdp$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:'I >I installed the VMS73_SYS05 patch two weeks ago & rebooted. On rebootinghI >dce, pathworks & goldfax were all broken (dce fixed with another supportvJ >call, no luck yet with the others). Talking to DPD, suppliers of Goldfax,J >they've got a similar problem with another customer, who's identified theM >VMS731_SYS02 patch as causing his problem, which was released at roughly theu3 >same time, and is presumably a very similar patch.B >uM >Is anyone aware of any problem with this patch ? Is there a fix ? Is backing- >out advisable ?  L We read about problems with this (both) patch(es) some days ago here in COV.I That's why I noted these patches as On-Hold (though they are still not !)g in my very private ECO list.  H I must however admit that I have VMS73_SYS05 already installed on my PWSH and I so far haven't seen problems on this machine (though my DNEWS NNTPH server still dies every night at ~2am with memory exceeded - but becauseI I installed DNEWS some days after VMS73_SYS05 I can't blame the ECO yet).    -- G Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERi% Network and OpenVMS system specialist* E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:06:20 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>x( Subject: Re: what does this command mean' Message-ID: <3DF1579C.68C65FC9@fsi.net>i   Bob Koehler wrote: > d > In article <3DED9B9C.A65F7832@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > > Shane Smith wrote: > >> NL: > >>K > >> This is the null device, which in this particular case behaves like anj > >> empty file. > >sO > > I was always told it was a big bit bucket. What puzzles me though is if you2M > > send a whole bunch of stuff to the big bit bucket, and why won't TYPE NL:o3 > > bring back the stuff from that big bit bucket ?I > >@ > > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-). > ; >    Peculiar thing, bit buckets.  Always seem to be leaky.    <music>m2 Thar's a hole in the bucket, Dear Liza, Dear Liza,' Thar's a hole in the bucket, Dear Liza,c A hole.  ...e </music>   -- d David J. DachteraT dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 02:15:45 -0800t" From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspn( Message-ID: <3DF1CA51.F1AB7311@mist.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote: > >  > > Atlant Schmidt wrote:  > > > 0 > > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-976211.html > > > " > > > HP gives Alpha one last gasp > > >b > > > By Ian Fried > > > Special to ZDNet NewsG# > > > December 5, 2002, 11:12 AM PT  > > >t: > > > Hewlett-Packard in January plans to release the last5 > > > major update to its Alpha chip, the EV7, paving 8 > > > the way for the retirement of the storied high-end > > > processor. > > >s; > > > An updated version of that chip, the EV79 will follows< > > > about 12 months later, HP executives said at a meeting: > > > this week with financial analysts. At that point, HP: > > > plans to shift Alpha into what it calls "maintenance7 > > > mode," a move that will save the company hundreds  > > > of millions of dollars.i > > >d; > > > The updated Alpha schedule is a slight departure fromt; > > > HP's previous timetable. In May, HP had said that theO# > > > EV7 would debut in late 2002.e > > >o2 > > > HP is retiring Alpha, along with its PA-RISC; > > > processor, in favor of building systems using Intel's 8 > > > Itanium chip, which is based on an architecture HP7 > > > helped develop. By shifting to Itanium, HP stands 5 > > > to save significant development costs. However,-7 > > > HP is betting big that Itanium sales will replaceb6 > > > the business HP will lose from Alpha and PA-RISC > > > based systems. > > >m1 > > > Alpha and PA-RISC processors account for $547 > > > billion in annual revenue, more than a quarter of87 > > > HP's total enterprise systems business, according 6 > > > to Peter Blackmore, HP executive vice president. > > >p > > > <rest snipped...>. > > ; > > Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against thet > > latest Alpha?? > ! > Still not ready for prime time.o >   ; Please post some results that are tangible.  I'm interested ; in the industry, even tho I'm retired from the industry.  Ie9 notice that IBM is interested in the Itanium2 processors,d: but what will eventually be the outcome is uncertain.  IBM5 has, earlier this year, advertised for sale a $15,000 < workstation touting an Itanium processor.  No where can this' now be found for sale on their website.n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 07:30:09 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp-3 Message-ID: <LcAdN8mslcAf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <3DF1CA51.F1AB7311@mist.com>, GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> writes:u > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   < 47 lines snipped >  " >> Still not ready for prime time. >> c > = > Please post some results that are tangible.  I'm interestedd   < 6 lines snipped >Y  @ Please limit your quoting.  While automated mechanisms to ensure< what you quote is shorter than what you contribute are a bit2 Draconian, that standard is a good generalization.  < Leaving the entire contents intact is as bad as top-posting.: And if it was not David's latest comment to which you were: responding, replying to an earlier post would be in order.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 17:41:33 -0800 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspe( Message-ID: <3DF151CD.7456F502@mist.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:t > , > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-976211.html >  > HP gives Alpha one last gasp >  > By Ian Fried > Special to ZDNet Newst > December 5, 2002, 11:12 AM PT  > 6 > Hewlett-Packard in January plans to release the last1 > major update to its Alpha chip, the EV7, pavingb4 > the way for the retirement of the storied high-end > processor. > 7 > An updated version of that chip, the EV79 will follow-8 > about 12 months later, HP executives said at a meeting6 > this week with financial analysts. At that point, HP6 > plans to shift Alpha into what it calls "maintenance3 > mode," a move that will save the company hundreds. > of millions of dollars.d > 7 > The updated Alpha schedule is a slight departure from37 > HP's previous timetable. In May, HP had said that the  > EV7 would debut in late 2002." > . > HP is retiring Alpha, along with its PA-RISC7 > processor, in favor of building systems using Intel's 4 > Itanium chip, which is based on an architecture HP3 > helped develop. By shifting to Itanium, HP standsa1 > to save significant development costs. However, 3 > HP is betting big that Itanium sales will replace 2 > the business HP will lose from Alpha and PA-RISC > based systems. > - > Alpha and PA-RISC processors account for $5h3 > billion in annual revenue, more than a quarter ofc3 > HP's total enterprise systems business, accordingT2 > to Peter Blackmore, HP executive vice president. >  > <rest snipped...>r  7 Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against theo latest Alpha??   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 21:09:24 -0500t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspt/ Message-ID: <3DF15839.918E9BA4@vl.videotron.ca>    GreyCloud wrote:9 > Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against the  > latest Alpha??  N I think that the new IA64 compares not too poorly with the current EV68 alpha.  U The new EV7 is targetted at very large systems where IA64 doesn't really count (yet).e  K How will EV7 compare with EV68 on a single or 2 processor machine ? Will ite* have significant performance improvement ?  N In tersm of IA64 systems which are available commercially, how big do they getI right now ? Or are they just glorified desktops used by developpers/earlyo
 adopters ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 20:32:15 -0600o1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspi' Message-ID: <3DF15DAF.1B13274F@fsi.net>c   GreyCloud wrote: >  > Atlant Schmidt wrote:t > >o. > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-976211.html > >a  > > HP gives Alpha one last gasp > >v > > By Ian Fried > > Special to ZDNet Newsd! > > December 5, 2002, 11:12 AM PT  > >a8 > > Hewlett-Packard in January plans to release the last3 > > major update to its Alpha chip, the EV7, pavingg6 > > the way for the retirement of the storied high-end > > processor. > >e9 > > An updated version of that chip, the EV79 will followl: > > about 12 months later, HP executives said at a meeting8 > > this week with financial analysts. At that point, HP8 > > plans to shift Alpha into what it calls "maintenance5 > > mode," a move that will save the company hundredsb > > of millions of dollars.  > > 9 > > The updated Alpha schedule is a slight departure fromb9 > > HP's previous timetable. In May, HP had said that the.! > > EV7 would debut in late 2002.n > >u0 > > HP is retiring Alpha, along with its PA-RISC9 > > processor, in favor of building systems using Intel'su6 > > Itanium chip, which is based on an architecture HP5 > > helped develop. By shifting to Itanium, HP standsn3 > > to save significant development costs. However,f5 > > HP is betting big that Itanium sales will replacet4 > > the business HP will lose from Alpha and PA-RISC > > based systems. > >t/ > > Alpha and PA-RISC processors account for $5k5 > > billion in annual revenue, more than a quarter ofg5 > > HP's total enterprise systems business, accordingo4 > > to Peter Blackmore, HP executive vice president. > >r > > <rest snipped...>t > 9 > Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against thed > latest Alpha??   Still not ready for prime time.e   --   David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/V   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:09:18 -0600e1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp ' Message-ID: <3DF2394E.3B52A550@fsi.net>o   GreyCloud wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >r > > GreyCloud wrote: > > >  > > > [snip]= > > > Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against they > > > latest Alpha?? > >f# > > Still not ready for prime time.h > >  > = > Please post some results that are tangible.  I'm interestedo= > in the industry, even tho I'm retired from the industry.  Iv; > notice that IBM is interested in the Itanium2 processors,   D I've not seen evidence of IBM "betting the farm" on Itanic, unlike a certain commercial o.s. ...u  = Those customers who "bet the business" on Alpha were hung outsH handsomely, dangling by the short hairs. If VMS has taken similar advice? in re: Itanic, its future can be told by even the least astute.   < > but what will eventually be the outcome is uncertain.  IBM7 > has, earlier this year, advertised for sale a $15,000 > > workstation touting an Itanium processor.  No where can this) > now be found for sale on their website.P  ' Probably stands as mute testimony, IMO.    -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems0 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/f   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.676 ************************