1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 08 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 677       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... C Re: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy? C RE: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy? C Re: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy?  Re: death of alpha on slashdot! Re: Good Job in Good Environment! 6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations6 Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations Re: Lat vs TCP/IP  Re: Lat vs TCP/IP - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? @ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)A Re: Question on VMS system authentication using perl and web page B Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupB Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupG Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No P Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks! , Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspM [OT] Appropriate snippage. (was Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 13:35:00 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212071335.a5aec50@posting.google.com>  d "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<0KqcnciTw4rCMWygXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>...7 > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 8 > news:d7791aa1.0212061636.8254549@posting.google.com...D > > an article on www.openvms.org just posted states OpenVMS will be* > > around long after current users retire > N > Now, Bob, whom do you really find more credible:  some consultant who boughtN > into all the nice things HP people were saying about its 'commitment' to VMSG > at the most recent symposium, or publicly published, clear, detailed, I > earnest commitments from two senior corporate VPs about Alpha's future?  > M > I'd normally go for the second, myself.  And given how that one turned out, ) > I'd value the first at just about zero.  >  > - bill  B no, I find credible all the vms users like myself, incl. the govt.@ and defense, who know and understand the superiority of VMS overA the other garbage os's out there today ... they are commited, and C I am commited to continue to use the best os for the last 25 years, ? and for the next 25 years ... intel itself wants vms because it @ knows that vms on itanium will rule the high end for the next 25B years ... just like it says above, those who have brains are goingB to use vms, the port will be easy, and alpha will live in itanium.? Those are the facts ... to keep on denying them is to live in a 9 fantasy world ... I think you underestimate vms users ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 03:08:06 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...2 Message-ID: <0KqcnciTw4rCMWygXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 6 news:d7791aa1.0212061636.8254549@posting.google.com...B > an article on www.openvms.org just posted states OpenVMS will be( > around long after current users retire  L Now, Bob, whom do you really find more credible:  some consultant who boughtL into all the nice things HP people were saying about its 'commitment' to VMSE at the most recent symposium, or publicly published, clear, detailed, G earnest commitments from two senior corporate VPs about Alpha's future?   K I'd normally go for the second, myself.  And given how that one turned out, ' I'd value the first at just about zero.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:35:10 -0500  From: Everhart <ge@gce.com> L Subject: Re: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy?+ Message-ID: <astpij$rc6$1@bob.news.rcn.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > In article <00A180BE.DAB3D326@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  > Y >>In article <01C29D32.70E0C6E0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:  >> >>J >>>If the other company has compromised his system to the point where thatF >>>sort of software could be used, they don't need to use it. You needH >>>system manager level privs to do that. If anyone's watching him, it's >>>probably his boss.  >>P >>True for "PEEK and SPY."  It would be interesting to know how he's connecting,M >>what he's connecting to, etcetera.  For example, if he works via DECwindows O >>over TCP/IP (rather than DECnet), it might be possible for his X-Server to be  >>hijacked.  >>2 >>But we certainly don't have enough info to tell. >> >  > L > We certainly don't have enough info. He could be working from a Windows or > Unix box, for all we know. >    > D >>(Also, how would this other company know what he's working on on aM >>minute-by-minute basis, so they'd know when to look and when not?  For that M >>to be true, they either have a mole in the organization or have compromised  >>email and phone systems.)  >> >  > I > They ask him to fix problem X. He logs on and phones them to ask how to H > reproduce the problem. Alternatively they pester him saying "When willB > you get this finished?" and he retorts "I am working on it now". > F > It wouldn't be an outsourcing company in charge of the network or PC > maintenance would it?  >  >  >> >>>Shane >>>  >>>-----Original Message----- A >>>From: pr909001@sneakemail.com [mailto:pr909001@sneakemail.com] * >>>Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 2:03 PM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComI >>>Subject: Any way to stop screen monitoring programs like Peek and Spy?  >>>  >>> D >>>I'm writing for a programmer in my group who thinks his screen isI >>>being monitored while working on a Open VMS box.  If this is true, his I >>>knowledge of the software is being stolen by another company simply by  >>>viewing his screen. >>> C >>>He's noticed a significant slowdown when he is called  on to fix D >>>something difficult on this box.  Coincidently, the other companyH >>>would be very interested in knowing what he is doing during this timeE >>>and there are other things which point to him believing that he is  >>>being monitored.  >>> B >>>Is there any way to stop this sort of monitoring?  I understand. >>>programs like "Peek and Spy" could be used. >>Q >>=============================================================================== 2 >> Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >> Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 O >> Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 Q >>===============================================================================  >> > F You can detect things like peek or spy with the old "spybeam detector"J program which appeared some years back on the sigtapes and net. Don't know" if an alpha version ever was done.  M Detecting this requires being assured that nothing upstream is spying though. K A PC used as a terminal but with a keystroke capture system, or a keystroke M recorder in the keyboard cable, would be detectable only by other inspection.   H To some extent your protection might be better achieved by using oddballF systems. If you use a VS3100 as your terminal, the PC monitor programsC don't work, the keyboard cable is different from a PC cable and the F PC appliances won't work, and spybeam detector on the 3100 would work.N Likewise chances are MOST attackers won't know about peek and spy. MonocultureK of systems makes spyware thinkable. To some extent hardware monoculture has  the same effects.   B Tamper detectors (even scripts that will generate hashes of systemF directory contents and check for changes) can help notice the additionE of new stuff that should not be there, but most of us don't use such. 1 (I for one keep a lot of backups on cd-r though.)    Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 02 12:12:13 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) L Subject: RE: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy?) Message-ID: <aM15LVqKDVh2@elias.decus.ch>    In article <00A180BE.DAB3D326@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: Y > In article <01C29D32.70E0C6E0@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:  > I >>If the other company has compromised his system to the point where that E >>sort of software could be used, they don't need to use it. You need G >>system manager level privs to do that. If anyone's watching him, it's  >>probably his boss. > P > True for "PEEK and SPY."  It would be interesting to know how he's connecting,M > what he's connecting to, etcetera.  For example, if he works via DECwindows O > over TCP/IP (rather than DECnet), it might be possible for his X-Server to be  > hijacked.  > 2 > But we certainly don't have enough info to tell. >   J We certainly don't have enough info. He could be working from a Windows or Unix box, for all we know.   D > (Also, how would this other company know what he's working on on aM > minute-by-minute basis, so they'd know when to look and when not?  For that M > to be true, they either have a mole in the organization or have compromised  > email and phone systems.)  >   G They ask him to fix problem X. He logs on and phones them to ask how to F reproduce the problem. Alternatively they pester him saying "When will@ you get this finished?" and he retorts "I am working on it now".  D It wouldn't be an outsourcing company in charge of the network or PC maintenance would it?    >  >  >> >>Shane  >> >>-----Original Message-----@ >>From: pr909001@sneakemail.com [mailto:pr909001@sneakemail.com]) >>Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 2:03 PM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com H >>Subject: Any way to stop screen monitoring programs like Peek and Spy? >> >>C >>I'm writing for a programmer in my group who thinks his screen is H >>being monitored while working on a Open VMS box.  If this is true, hisH >>knowledge of the software is being stolen by another company simply by >>viewing his screen.  >>B >>He's noticed a significant slowdown when he is called  on to fixC >>something difficult on this box.  Coincidently, the other company G >>would be very interested in knowing what he is doing during this time D >>and there are other things which point to him believing that he is >>being monitored. >>A >>Is there any way to stop this sort of monitoring?  I understand - >>programs like "Peek and Spy" could be used.  > Q > =============================================================================== 2 >  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUO >  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 O >  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 Q > ===============================================================================  >  --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 02:03:01 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> L Subject: Re: Any way to stop screen monitoring  programs like Peek  and Spy?/ Message-ID: <uv5a2lfcsmbt2d@corp.supernews.com>   % Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote: I : If the other company has compromised his system to the point where that E : sort of software could be used, they don't need to use it. You need G : system manager level privs to do that. If anyone's watching him, it's  : probably his boss.  ? Judging from the wording in teh base article, he's sitting at a > Windows PC and THAT'S where the monitoring/security breach is.  > You don't need much more beyond an unsecured PC to hack into a Windows box.  > The following site (Shields Up!) has some good information for> locking down a Windows PC by disabling unneeded serbices that > are wide open by default with Windows.  What I normally do is = apply a couple of steps at a time, then make sure everything  > still works.  Some users have PC software that needs the PC to< be wide open or be running an easily exploitable service to  work properly.  ! https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2   ? Click on Network Bondage or go to http://grc.com/su-bondage.htm    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 02 08:56:43 +0100 ) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: death of alpha on slashdot ) Message-ID: <DkcxqyOjmTBU@elias.decus.ch>    In article <rdeininger-0612020851290001@user-2ive145.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > > In article <c5cf6e8.0212060511.18e22344@posting.google.com>,+ > baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote:  > I >>http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/0326217&mode=thread&tid=173  > 0 > The level of ignorance over there is stunning. >  Agreed.    G > Are those the sort of folks who are being hired to program and manage J > today's wonderful "industry standard" and linux IT solutions?  If so, we! > are in a whole heap of trouble.   F I'm afraid so. There are some excellent folks out there, when you knowF how to find them - more often by sheer luck than good management. Many* I would not trust to park my car properly.  @ Too much dogma, and belief that their way is the only way, IMHO. --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 13:41:23 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)* Subject: Re: Good Job in Good Environment!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212071341.27fceffe@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF158C2.C1451989@fsi.net>... > Jason O'Donnell wrote: > > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DEEAE22.1EE89867@fsi.net>... > > > Jason O'Donnell wrote: > > > >  > > > > All, > > > > N > > > > H&R Block has an OVMS Admin position available in Columbus, Ohio.  See@ > > > > our website or Monster.  They are finally taking away my* > > > > responsibility as backup sysadmin. > > > > 8 > > > > It is a great environment here!  Great benefits! > > > ; > > > Any ballpark on what the job pays? Is relo available?  > > A > > The range is very wide, 30K.  The midpoint is in the mid-60s.  > > J > > Relocation assistance was not budgeted for this position.  However, if> > > you are the right person HR might be able to do soemthing. > > & > > The work environment here is tops! > H > I've sent my Monster resume. We'll see if draws anyone's fire (I think% > work may be monitoring this group.)   < hey, if you get the job Dave, maybe we will be neighbors ... I bake a mean Polish cookie!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 02:23:26 GMT ( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations ; Message-ID: <y2yI9.113019$Gc.3575130@twister.austin.rr.com>   J In message <rCZl6x$$OfFy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large) wrote: ........I > 	Apparently mine does.  They recently emailed a policy around that was  * > IMO very draconian.  In brief it stated: >  > no instant message programs 0 > no hotmail, yahoo mail or any other email site5 > no using websites to monitor stocks or current news  > no non-work-related websites > ALL network traffic is logged  > ALL email is logged C > Violators will be terminated (says nothing about a warning first) 8 > Management will not be allowed to speak on your behalf+ So, you  work for the US goverment too, eh?    > K > 	Now I do agree with parts of the policy, like the IM programs.  They're  P > a security risk.  The part that bugs me is the penalty for violations, sounds J > like instant termination, no excuses, no questions.  I didn't think they would K > do that, but now some of you are saying you know people who've been fired  in  + > this manner, and it makes me worry again. I Yes.  One infected the internal network with a virus from her yahoo mail.   J > 	I know of a few coworkers who route their work email through AOL email O > because they travel alot.  Or maybe they prefer AOL's interface, who knows?   N > But I asked one of them about doing that with this new policy, and his reply to  K > me was "they can bite me".  Is he going to be terminated if they catch up  with   > him?G > 	If you get fired for this, will prospective employers see this when  @ > they call to verify your work history, and refuse to hire you?K Now days most companies won't do more than verify that you worked there and  the dates.  Too may law suits.  A > 	It's a huge, nation-wide corporation.  I can just imagine the  L > department we have tucked away somewhere responsible for eyeballing these  > network logs every day....H Oh, so you don't work directly for the goverment.  But neither do I as a6 goverment contractor, but I still live by their rules.   >  > --   >  - Sharon, lurker at Large' > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jcwoman  --  
 Jay E. Morris @ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 06:17:43 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ? Subject: Re: Keeping of emails to abide by auditing regulations / Message-ID: <uv5p07dpgbo337@corp.supernews.com>   1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: K : There was a news story tonight about some newyork banks not having proper N : auditing of emails, stating that companies are supposed to keep emails for 3 : years and not delete them.  G There's no 3-year law that I know of.  In fact, at a prior employer our K e-mail was AUTOMATICALLy purged of all mails older than 6 months and having L mail olfder than 6 mos old in an Outlook archive o .pst file was an explicit violation of policy.  K This new policy came down from high right after the govt dug up old e-mails 5 from Bill Gates and his execs in the Microsoft trial.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 12:55:38 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) Subject: Re: Lat vs TCP/IP= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212071255.52054d64@posting.google.com>   h "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<wU7I9.432572$S8.8860053@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...J > I read a discussion that touched on this recently, but I cannot find it. > E > Years ago, we implemented several applications based on LAT.  These M > applications received requests from customers and passed the requests on to M > the appropriate system.  LAT was chosen largely because of better fail-over G > and load balancing capabilities (than TCP/IP).  But it was also chose J > because it was an integral part of  VMS (This was in the VAX VMS 4/VMS 5J > days).  The question is now arising as to whether this explanation stillN > holds water, or should we move to TCP/IP, which is much more widely used and6 > understood.   We are now on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 * 7.3-1. > G > Security, Reliability and Performance (in pretty much that order) are  > extremely important to us. > M > Can a case be made for keeping LAT?   What are some of the pros and cons of # > each (as compared to each other).  > 	 > thanks.   > it works best to separate the decnet/lat and IP traffic on two@ different lines (ewa0/ewa1) ... we run our decserver lat traffic? on one and IP over the other ... both using the same switch ... ? even better if you add ewa2 to ewa1 for IP and use TCPwares nic = failover ... it load balances outgoing IP traffic between the > two de500's making an extremely efficent 100mb lan ... and the> IP lan never has access to the decnet/lat lan because the ewa0< decnet lan is smart enough to accept only the decnet packets3 while ignoring IP packets making it very secure ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:45:25 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Lat vs TCP/IP' Message-ID: <3DF2B245.E792BC60@fsi.net>    Lee Y T Mah wrote: > [snip]N > LAT does provide true load balancing using a LAT service name whereas TCP/IP > provides aA > round robin of the available nodes for a telnet service name.     F Later versions of TCP/IP Services (fka UCX) provide a "metrics server"H which interacts with DDNS to perform load balancing very similar to LAT.F Not sure if Multinet or TCPware provide similar functionality: we have@ few interactive users on our cluster (they're back-end servers -1 database access, etc.); so, we've no need for it.    > However, we have > found that theQ > round robin is adequate in distributing our productions users among the cluster  > nodes.  H It can be useful. I'd lean toward the metrics-based load balancing where round-robin leaves one wanting.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 13:03:48 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212071303.257b0b4a@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>...B > In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andF > Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forE > Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.  > " > Are there any further questions? >  > The defense rests.  > and your point is what?  Slowaris is in the same boat as other; unix/linux garbage ... VMS is superior to all them ... they ; can give it away and I will still pay for VMS because it is = the best hands down ... "if its free, there must be a reason, < and 99.9% of the time the reason is no one would buy it" ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:24:50 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DF2AD72.702E76D6@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>, = >         "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: D > > In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andH > > Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forG > > Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.  > >  > > , > > SUN PONDERS OFFERING OPEN-SOURCE SOLARIS > > / > > Posted December 05, 2002 12:58 Pacific Time  > > : > > SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems is pondering whether9 > > or not to offer Solaris code in an open-source format 8 > > to boost deployment of the operating system on Intel: > > hardware, but questions remain about the effectiveness2 > > of open source, a Sun official said this week. > > 6 > > The company is looking at allowing users to access% > > Solaris in an open-source format,  > > > Maybe Andrew can field this one, but before anyone here gets> > overly concerned about an "Open Source" Solaris offering yet? > another threat to VMS I think it should be explained how they ? > can "Open SOurce" something that is still covered by patents, 0 > copyrights and trade secrets they don't own.    E Before this gets too far off-track, the issue is not open source. The F issue is the citation of the number of downloads and the price. That'sF $28 million (1.4 million downloads at $20/ea) Sun gets for not selling+ so much as a set screw or a tinnerman clip.    Look at it this way:  < The Sun faithful asked for Solaris-9 for Intel. They got it.  8 The VMS faithful asked for OpenVMS-IA32. We got - squat.  E The Sun faithful asked for affordability. They got a price of $20 per 	 download.   F The VMS faithful asked for Affordable OpenVMS. We got - squat. (Before< anyone brings up the hobbyist program, remember: it has thatC non-commercial "poison pill" in it. Before anyone brings up the ISV ? program (formerly known as ASAP or CSA), remember: it's not for  end-users.)   D The Sun faithful (probably) asked for open-source Solaris/Intel. The@ trade publications document that Sun is at least considering it.  C We all know why OpenVMS can't and shouldn't be open-sourced, though D greater affordability of the source listings CDs might be helpful toB starving developers and would-be ISVs. Not sure what may have beenC requested - I don't participate in those discussions, but I can say ? this: Larry K.'s latest offering (RMS support in ISO-9660 image F building) would not have been possible without the source listing CDs.D Larry will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong about that, I'm sure.  H The Sun faithful probably asked for a downloadable Solaris/Intel distro. They got it.  G The VMS faithful have asked for downloadable distro's. To date we got -  squat.  D So, we stand more or less where we've stood all along: our needs and@ wants are published here, in a public forum. VMS's responses are likewise fully documented.  ( DEC Listens? Compaq Listens? HP Listens?   The testimony is unmistakable.  5 Sun has demonstrated responsiveness to its user base.   F VMS has demonstrated ... well, you can finish that sentence, I'm sure.  < Which is most likely to survive? My guess should be obvious.   As always, prove me wrong!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 09:59:04 +0200 @ From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <Veli.Korkko@kolumbus.fi>I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port) * Message-ID: <3DF1AA48.1041166@kolumbus.fi>  
 Manser wrote:  > g > nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in message news:<2178d61f.0212051622.1901f7e0@posting.google.com>...  > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...B > > > In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>1 > > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:  > > >  > > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...F > > > > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com>5 > > > > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote: 	 > > > > >  > > > > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<9c688a9b4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>... > > > > > > > Hi, 
 > > > > > > > S > > > > > > > OK, I'll try to remember as much as possible - I worked with an SW300 W > > > > > > > (RaidArray 450) which uses the same controllers, but with a different bus  > > > > > > > configuration. > > > > > > < > > > > > > Lot of thanks, that you investige in my Problem. > > > > > > 
 > > > > > > > A > > > > > > > I don't have access to the hardware or manuals now. 
 > > > > > > >  > > > > > > 9 > > > > > > I have access to the manuals, (Service Guide)  > > > > > > 	 > > > > >  > > > > > < huge snip>	 > > > > > 
 > > > > > > > R > > > > > > > Sorry I can't point to a definite cause. I suspect your system has aV > > > > > > > different configuration to the one I used, for example, removable cache.
 > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Good luck,
 > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > P > > > > > > i can send you a picture of the server showing how it is configured. > > > > > > my question is:  > > > > > > W > > > > > > suppose the batteries are damaged or flat, does this prevent the controller % > > > > > > to initialise correctly ?  > > > > > > # > > > > > > thanks for the answers. 	 > > > > > T > > > > > Since the system behaves the same with terminal disconnected (that bit wasV > > > > > snipped), I suspect the batteries. I don't know whether a faulty battery canE > > > > > prevent the controller from booting, but it seems possible. 	 > > > > > N > > > > > If not that, then it would seem that you have the same fault on bothR > > > > > controllers, which seems somewhat unlikely. (Unless, as I have suggestedU > > > > > before) a faulty terminal has been connected to each controller in turn and  > > > > > damaged it.)	 > > > > >  > > > > S > > > > the terminal i connected to is a VT500 with 3 Serial ports, 2 are connected B > > > > (1 to the alpha server, the other to the HSZ serial port.)U > > > > the first time i connected the terminal, only the server console gave output. 9 > > > > How can a faulty terminal damage the controller ?  > > > R > > > RS232 is pretty tolerant of faults - each pin should be able to tolerate +/-M > > > 35 volts wrt signal ground, without damage. However RS423, used on more L > > > recent equipment, has lower voltages, normally +/- 5v. I just wonderedQ > > > whether a faulty terminal might be sending an excessive voltage on one pin, R > > > breaking through the input protection, and damaging a chip on the controllerQ > > > board. It is unlikely, but there aren't many things that would stop both of $ > > > your controllers from booting. > > >  > > - > > on the VT500 the input channls are RS432.  > >  > > > > V > > > > > (You also asked about the output during boot - I can't remember the details,R > > > > > but it was plain text, similar to that output by terminal servers duringS > > > > > boot. It sounds as though your controllers are failing a self test before 5 > > > > > the point where they start to output text.) 	 > > > > >  > > > >  > > > > that is right. > > > > T > > > > > Oh, another thought. The PCMCIA memory cards contain the operating system.V > > > > > The highest version for HSZ50 wqs V5.7. (I hope I remembered this right. I'mP > > > > > fairly sure we ran 5.4 for a long time, then 5.7.) Have you got higher8 > > > > > versions? If so, you could get a boot failure.	 > > > > >  > > > > R > > > > the hsof version is 5.1, i don't know if changing the PCMCIA card, changes > > > > this behaviour.  > > > J > > > This is the version in the PCMCIA card, and should be fine for those > > > controllers  > > >  > > > >  > > > > so the issues are: > > > > < > > > > i will change the connection cable, and try another.M > > > > if it persists, then it can be either the battery or the PCMCIA card. $ > > > > are there another thoughts ? > > > B > > > I don't think it's PCMCIA - they are an appropriate version. > > > " > > > > seeing the Service manual:D > > > > the LED fault code it get, tells me to reset the controller.4 > > > > other LED codes tells, to change the module. > > > N > > > It's trying to tell you both modules are faults. I hope not, and I can't& > > > really see why both should fail. > > > J > > > > what i want to know is if the complete controller card is damaged.6 > > > > i hope no, because i have no service contract. > > > P > > > You didn't say where the equipment came from - a really long shot would beK > > > mains voltage differences, i.e. 110 / 230 volt. However a lot of this M > > > equipment is auto-sensing. I don't know about the shelf power supplies.  > > >  > > > Getting desperate now... > > > 
 > > > Alan > > & > > I finally have done the following: > > 
 > > power off 9 > > disbled the ECB by pushing the battery disable switch 1 > > disconnected the cable from the cache module.  > > remove the programm card. & > > loosen the screws from the trilink( > > loosen the controller from the shelf- > > remove the memory battery (Type: 2032 3V)  > > waited Ca. 1 hour., > > put the battery in the controller module$ > > put the controller in the shelf. > > put back the trilink > > inserted the program card L > > reconnected the cable from tha cache to the (ECB External cache battery) > > powered the system on. > > F > > both controllers initialised OK, so i could gain access to the CLID > > the problem is that 1 LED of the ECB is not lit, it means that 10 > > battery is not providing power to the cache. > >  > > F > > after 5 min, the upper controller shutsdown itself (seeing the LED > > status)  > > Green LED: LIT > > 3 leftmost amber LED : LIT > > 4 > > the other controller continues normal operation: > > % > > Green LED: blinking every second.N > > amber LED's : off	 > >eH > > i send you the output from the console, the first file is when i put; > > the serial cable to the upper controller. (the problem).' > > the second from the down controller  > >rC > > My question: What can i do that both batteries function again ?r > >i > > thanks,S > >  > > Nazim Manser > U > I have continued working with the remaining controller, but i have another problem:d > , > I can't set any settings on the controller
 > Example: > HSZ> set this prompt="HSZ02>" O > Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This controller cannot be used   >             Call field service' > Shelf 2 has a bad power supply or fann' > Shelf 3 has a bad power supply or fanZ' > Shelf 4 has a bad power supply or fanr' > Shelf 5 has a bad power supply or fant' > Shelf 6 has a bad power supply or fan 0 > Controller shelf has a bad power supply or fan > Cache battery charge is lown  > Write-back caching is disabled6 > SWAP signal cleared - all SWAP interrupts re-enabled > Other controller restarted > . > Explanation for the bad power supply or fan:E > i service the shelf with only one power supply, to economize power.p > I service it at my Home. >  > Nazim Manser  H The key thing is the "invalid serial number". As far as I know, there is no way> out of it on the field. You will need a new controller module.   _velie   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:55:16 GMTa1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> J Subject: Re: Question on VMS system authentication using perl and web page2 Message-ID: <3DF27B8D.C4E8C46B@firstdbasource.com>   JF Mezei wrote:0 >  > Andrew Robert wrote:M > > I'd like to add access to some application reports but the information is  > > for authorized users only. > >cM > > Does anyone know how to add system level authentication via Perl to a web  > > page for VMS system access?o > L > Normally, the authentication would be done at the web server level. In itsE > security/mapping rules, you would define a directory/URL to requirepN > authentication via whatever mechanisms the Compaq version of Apache provides
 > for VMS. > K > In other words, the authentication is done before it reaches your script.   ; And your script can do things based on that authentication.m -- t Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163p7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.como   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 12:34:43 -0700 (MST)" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupeG Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0212071233540.13403-100000@athena.csdco.com>b  D Please keep it the way it is.  One can delete off-topic posts easily enough.o  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  5 Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 23:17 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) 9 From: duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald)nK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupoB Message-ID: <memo.20021207231732.36495A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>  4  "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote:   H > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toG > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this islI > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thateI > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts.bI > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroup6, > have simply been ignored by the offenders. >w  D I would vote against this - while there is some junk, much of it is O interesting. Also the volume of posts to this conference is sufficiently small uM that it is easy to read even if you do not skip over the off topic posts. If m9 the RFD is ever proposed formally I will vote against it.u   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 02 11:28:19 +0100p) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)mK Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupu) Message-ID: <seAYy$qYwx36@elias.decus.ch>   J In article <VI4I9.238453$oRV.108518@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,% "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes::  yN > We are a small community as it is - for better or worse, c.o.v. is the placeK > where most of the discussion regarding VMS-related things occur, and thisDN > has occurred as a result of a long period of human behavior. I see no reasonN > to further fragment it and lessen the weight of our collective voice, though) > I'm sure HP wouldn't mind that one bit.  >   G True, we are a small community. One of the beauties of it is that there G is a wide depth of experience, not just sheer technical stuff, but frome8 people coming from different industries and backgrounds.  I I have also had the experience (back in CompuServe days rather than here)tH of being trapped in a hotel room late at night seeking technical advice,I and getting it within a very short space of time, so I rather dislike thetF idea of a moderator who could slow that response time down, especiallyE when differing timezones could mean the moderator(s) might be in bed.   G Moving onto OT posts, I do tend to read them, time permitting, and will G often contribute.  Again, we are a small community and I like to get to C know the other side of the people I deal with. To that end, I wouldtG personally like an alternative venue where we could have discussions oneF any topic we wish. Food, politics, cars, you name it, but with 2 aims:  H 1. Any thread drifting to non-technical matters could be quickly shiftedG    to the alternative venue by the simple expedient of saying "OK - OT,t,    discussion continued in the other place".  E 2. comp.os.vms is kept as far as possible technical only, and all theuG    references to it remain valid. Those stuck in the dreaded hotel room H    on an expensive dial up line can still have excellent advice, without     the noise, at a minimum cost.  H 3. The alternative venue could be a place where we voice wider concerns,6    swap jokes, or whatever, unafraid of the OT police.  J OK, that's 3 points, not 2. I don't know how to accomplish it in practice, but it's my 2 cents.   -- h
 Paul Sture Switzerlandn   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:51:43 GMTd. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup 2 Message-ID: <z9mI9.33349$A9.503339@news.chello.at>  _ In article <3DEF8348.64B322FE@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:aI >So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be theo  >creation of two new newsgroups: >m0 >comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderated2 >comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderated >e. >and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.   NO. DON'T TOUCH COMP.OS.VMS !=  B I also don't like reading the various OT threads, but that is what> the kill-thread command/key in the newsclient is invented for.  H There is a already a good VMSNET hierarchy with various specific groups.> But VMSNET seems not very popular nowadays. Why, I don't know.K (Maybe because there are not mailling-lists gatewayed to all VMSNET groups)e  K If you want to do something about the noise level reduction, then eg. starteL mailing-lists for (almost) every group of VMSNET and try to move discussionsI from COMP.OS.VMS to the appropriate VMSNET group (because then the reasona= of many people to stay only in COMP.OS.VMS/INFO-VAX is gone).o  C But don't forget that not all newsservers host the VMSNET hierarchylG (but all _I_ have seen, have them) and not all people prefer discussingiC such things in more than one place (eg. I do not want to discuss inSC openvms.org because I discuss already in VMSNET.*, *COMP.OS.VMS anda* COMP.SYS.DEC and that's more than enough).   -- a Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERp% Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 20:34:56 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgrouph' Message-ID: <3DF2AFCF.230F7D11@fsi.net>b   Duncan Macdonald wrote:' > 6 >  "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote: > J > > I am in the process of writing up a formal RFD to begin the process toI > > make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup.  The rationale behind this isyK > > the fact that the noise level in this newsgroup has grown so large thatqK > > the number of off-topic posts now exceeds the number of on-topic posts.UK > > Repeated requests to cease sending off-topic messages to this newsgroupt. > > have simply been ignored by the offenders. > >m > E > I would vote against this - while there is some junk, much of it iscP > interesting. Also the volume of posts to this conference is sufficiently smallN > that it is easy to read even if you do not skip over the off topic posts. If; > the RFD is ever proposed formally I will vote against it.r  F I spend less than an hour a day on this some nights. Mark->Thread ReadC is my friend - Netscape, usually on W/95 but infrequently on Linux,aE also. We may be getting laptops at work with docking stations. If so,fG I'll have more flexibility to go with a Linux PC here at home. My AlphanF lacks sufficient memory to run Mozilla as yet, but maybe I'll get someD SIMMs for Christmas: my wife's nephew and my brother-in-law are bothB sufficiently knowledgeable that if I ask them for some 32MB parity5 SIMMs, they'll know what to get and where to find it.n   -- F David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 16:18:52 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nP Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No3 Message-ID: <OBKaa8Cf26au@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  f In article <3DF273FB.E81F7B1F@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:. >> m >> :M >> (and as far as pop-uo ads, I have long turned off javascript and that doeso" >> wonders to make things faster). > H > Although Javascript as well as all the other scripting tools have beenE > turned into something very evil, they can be very beneficial.  FormoI > verification, even using it to get user profile information upon log intF > and filling in the appropriate fields for an order. It is a bit moreH > difficult to achieve this without extensive programming when using RdbG > or some other VMS - and even Unix -based database.  Javascript can ben9 > your friend... most sites choose to make it your enemy.d  G Setting all username /NOPASSWORD can be your friend -- some individuals  choose to make it your enemy.   ? The essence of computer security is to eschew the honor system.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 22:22:58 GMT=1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>=Y Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks! l2 Message-ID: <3DF273FB.E81F7B1F@firstdbasource.com>   JF Mezei wrote:o >  > L > (and as far as pop-uo ads, I have long turned off javascript and that does! > wonders to make things faster).=  F Although Javascript as well as all the other scripting tools have beenC turned into something very evil, they can be very beneficial.  FormmG verification, even using it to get user profile information upon log inoD and filling in the appropriate fields for an order. It is a bit moreF difficult to achieve this without extensive programming when using RdbE or some other VMS - and even Unix -based database.  Javascript can be 7 your friend... most sites choose to make it your enemy.e   -- y Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 16:51:25 -0500n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspf/ Message-ID: <3DF26D5A.A99960E2@vl.videotron.ca>e   GreyCloud wrote:= > in the industry, even tho I'm retired from the industry.  Ip; > notice that IBM is interested in the Itanium2 processors,   M It costs nothing to build some wintel boxes powered by IA64. Certaintly not aeI strategic thing for IBM unless they annoucned they are dropping POWER andoN moving all their OS to IA64 before IA64 has even made its proofs. IBM wouldn'tM be so stupid to do that, unlike another manufacturer who cannabalised its ownrA more powerful architecture in favour of a slow, unproven, bloatedh
 architecture.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:05:55 -08000& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspt/ Message-ID: <uv4vm2et918m41@corp.supernews.com>o   JF Mezei wrote:  > GreyCloud wrote: > = >>in the industry, even tho I'm retired from the industry.  I0; >>notice that IBM is interested in the Itanium2 processors,r >  > > > It costs nothing to build some wintel boxes powered by IA64.  > You mean no investment is required? Please tell me how that is& possible - I sense an opportunity. 8^)   --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 02:37:50 -0500* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gaspo2 Message-ID: <myydnY-6dIbVOGygXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messagel) news:3DF15839.918E9BA4@vl.videotron.ca...a > GreyCloud wrote:; > > Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against the: > > latest Alpha?? >nI > I think that the new IA64 compares not too poorly with the current EV68  alpha.  E The 1.25 GHz EV68 is about 5% faster in SPECint2K_base; both use some5K feedback-directed optimization to obtain their scores, but Alpha probably aeG good deal less than Itanic (e.g, it doesn't use the 'Spike' mechanisms, L though I honestly have no idea how much they might help; there appears to beK some benchmark rule-playing involved, because while Itanic seems to require E just one compiler switch to obtain all its possible feedback-directediJ optimizations, Alpha requires three and hence is limited in using them for base performance figures).  H Itanic2 doesn't release peak figures, and it seems possible that the newJ Alpha's SPECint2K_peak value may be considerably higher than whatever peakJ figure Itanic2 could attain, due to the added impact of the additional two Alpha Spike options.  K Itanic2 leads Alpha significantly in SPECfp2K_base performance, but in part G because *no* feedback-directed optimizations are used in the Alpha base J tests (but are in the Itanic tests).  Alpha's SPECfp2K_peak score is aboutH the same as Itanic's base score (and a new Itanic score has pulled a fewI percent higher still):  while SPECfp is relatively unimportant in typicalr4 commercial use, Itanic does have an advantage there.  J The main Itanic drawbacks are  1) that it uses 130 Watts of power comparedK with Alpha's 75 Watts (increasing power and cooling costs significantly andyJ reducing its ability to be used in dense - e.g., blade-style - groupings),K 2) that it's a far larger chip than EV68, thus costing more to produce (but H that's offset by the lack of most need for an off-chip cache, which EV68E pretty much requires though of course EV7 will not),  3) that without E feedback-directed optimizations its performance falls by at least 20% I (whereas Alpha's should fall very little, its architecture being far lesstJ sensitive to it), meaning that observed performance in the real world willK be lower for any applications not compiled iteratively, and  4) that it hasgL nowhere to go now until at least 2005 and more likely 2006 (just a shrink inC each of the next two years plus more on-chip cache, plus a possible I dual-core variant in 2005 and/or EV7-style on-chip glue in that year, butoJ the last is just a guess about what Intel *should* be planning rather thanJ based on any indication of what they actually have planned), whereas AlphaK is about to get a dramatic performance boost in EV7 and would have receivedf< an even more dramatic boost in 2004 had EV8 not been killed.   >sJ > The new EV7 is targetted at very large systems where IA64 doesn't really count (yet).  J And until EV7 and EV79 become out-dated in 2005 or later, it never will be serious competition for them.n   >bJ > How will EV7 compare with EV68 on a single or 2 processor machine ? Will it, > have significant performance improvement ?  J Yes.  The dramatically reduced main-memory latency (only about 1/2 EV68's,= as best I can tell, and more like 1/3 in high-processor-counthI configurations) plus dramatically increased main-memory and I/O bandwidth I (which scales with the processor count rather than being a level fixed bybK the external chipset, though QBBs scaled similarly to some degree, just far C less effectively) will be significant indeed.  Raw single-processortK SPECint2K performance is expected to increase at least 15% as a result, andrD high-processor-count configurations will be absolutely awesome (evenK dual-processor systems will see some of this benefit; my impression is thate+ no single-processor EV7 boxes are planned).    >-L > In tersm of IA64 systems which are available commercially, how big do they getn
 > right now ?t  L Up to 32 processors, from NEC and Unisys, IIRC.  But you can't purchase moreK than a 4-processor box from HP yet (may have to wait another 6 months or sorD for Madison:  I'm not sure they'll be ready to release the PinnaclesI 32[?]-processor chipset before then), and you can't buy an Intel (or IBM)pF Itanic2 box of *any* size yet (Intel's chipset has yet again failed toF appear on schedule, and IBM doesn't seem to be in any hurry to release theirs).  D My impression is that the large NEC and Unisys boxes may not be thatJ impressive in main-memory latency, per-processor bandwidth, and MP scalingK compared with the 4-processor HP zx1 chipset, and of course they don't havelJ access to the HP-UX compiler (which is what set the good SPECint2K scores:J the Intel and Microsoft compilers were produced considerably lower scores,K though it's rumored that in the case of the Intel compiler this was because.L it had not yet incorporated feedback-directed optimizations which are now inK place).  So effectively no *competitive* configurations beyond 4 processorse may yet exist.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Dec 2002 11:22:03 -0000m4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>V Subject: [OT] Appropriate snippage. (was Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp)5 Message-ID: <20021207112203.3733.qmail@nym.alias.net>   8 On Sat, 07 Dec 2002, GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> wrote: >"David J. Dachtera" wrote:e >>   >> GreyCloud wrote:r >> > >> > Atlant Schmidt wrote: >> > >1 >> > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-976211.htmle >> > ># >> > > HP gives Alpha one last gasph  7 <snip 35 lines which have been reposted numerous times>    >> > > <rest snipped...> >> >< >> > Does anybody know how the new Itanium2 fare against the >> > latest Alpha??h >> d" >> Still not ready for prime time. >>   > < >Please post some results that are tangible.  I'm interested< >in the industry, even tho I'm retired from the industry.  I: >notice that IBM is interested in the Itanium2 processors,; >but what will eventually be the outcome is uncertain.  IBMe6 >has, earlier this year, advertised for sale a $15,000= >workstation touting an Itanium processor.  No where can this ( >now be found for sale on their website.  B On the odd occasion when I actually use my news client to post, itI complains if the number of lines I add is less than a certain percentage.e  C Okay, we're no longer living in the age of the 9600 baud modem, buto; trimming things a bit certainly makes things more readable.e     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netc   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.677 ************************  