1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 09 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 680       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...  another partner  Re: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems  KFPSA and Alpha Station 255 - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? > OT:Ever Notice (was RE: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?)B Re: OT:Ever Notice (was RE: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?)@ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)@ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)@ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)B Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupP Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup -         No P Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup -         No  TCL for OpenVMS  Re: TCL for OpenVMS  Re: TCL for OpenVMS ) Re: TCPIP v5.1 on Alpha kills same on VAX  VMS Partner information  Re: XFC question, Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 22:31:12 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" .../ Message-ID: <3DF40E80.402E15E9@vl.videotron.ca>    Chris Clifford wrote: M > If HP is serious about keeping VMS then there's a tremendous amount of work L > required to persuade programmers and enthusiastic system managers that VMS+ > is an interesting environment to work in.   J One should not count on HP as a corporation to do that. One can help folks& like Sue accomplish this *despite* HP.  J Attracting developpers to VMS would be a lot easier if VMS ran on the 8086> since anyone and everyone could learn about VMS in their home.  Q Alternatively, making all remaining vaxstations available easily would also help.   L The Hobbysit programme is perhaps the one thing which has the most potential for VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:28:12 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...) Message-ID: <3DF4622D.1F8CED0E@Omond.net>    Chris Clifford wrote:    > [...big snip...] > M > I can't comment on Northern America but here in Europe real VMS programmers N > are extremely scarce. We run two mission-critical disaster tolerant clustersM > but the applications running on them nowadays are updated and maintained by M > a group of programmers who are not VMS specialists. Highly skilled they may D > be at coding but ask them to create an executable which can be runK > simultaneously on two nodes in a cluster and automatically fail over in a L > short period of time and they really would not know where to start. If oneL > node fails within either of our critical environments, the downtime is theG > length of the reboot plus application startup as the applications are = > distributed amongst cluster members without any redundancy.  > B > I remember the mass exodus of good quality VMS programmers to NTM > environments about 6-7 years ago (thanks Digital) and I have not seen their  > numbers replaced.  > M > If HP is serious about keeping VMS then there's a tremendous amount of work L > required to persuade programmers and enthusiastic system managers that VMSK > is an interesting environment to work in. HP needs to stress the benefits I > not only at a high level to the IT managers but also technically to the < > people who would develop in and maintain VMS environments. > K > It's not the case that those with brains will use VMS - there is actually K > intelligence out there but ignorance plays a major role in choosing other N > OSes. As someone who also heads a team looking after one of those other OSesC > I can honestly say the alternatives to VMS are truly frightening.  > 
 > - Chris.  : Hmmm... interesting e-mail address Chris (@openvms.co.uk).  < http://www.openvms.co.uk lands you in www.openvms.compaq.com  D Does that mean you work for HP/Compaq/DEC ?  And you still can't get good VMS people ?   ' And they just laid off John Travell ...   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:29:32 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BE4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Howard,   G >>> What it comes down to for me is, VMS is no longer being used for=20 I anything interesting.  It's used by large corporations who move slowly=20 8 enough that their inertia hasn't let them change yet.<<<  	 ROTFL ...    :-)   ; I guess financial, medical, education, government, telecom, < manufacturing, security sectors don't count in your view eh?  6 Secure eBusiness is also not important either I guess?  G Or perhaps Customers aren't looking at server consolidation and perhaps G don't want virus free file-n-print environments either (one Cust I know H of has 6,000 end users on 4 node ES45 OpenVMS Advanced Server cluster..) ??  < Recent OpenVMS in the press references: (long urls may wrap)1 http://www.wallstreetsystems.com/news/hpbench.htm   H http://domino.omgroup.com/www/ombulletinboard.nsf/21d74cf5a8def809c1256a8 d200411a1f/baf61a6443a19e6480256c6f00524aa2!OpenDocument  9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2002/021114d.html   < http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2002/021119a.html=20  / http://hpnow.corp.hp.com/news/02q4/021003m1.htm   4 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/24jun02g.htm  3 http://www.synergex.com/oll_files/synergex-1662.asp   : http://www.tse.com/en/mediaNews/newsreleases/news2265.html  < http://h18020.www1.hp.com/newsroom/pr/2002/pr2002040805.html  5 http://www.mgex.com/news/news_releases/release28.html   * http://www.cio.com/archive/020102/dep.html  * http://www.dataglider.com/news/press4.html  C http://www.capitol.northgrum.com/press_releases/joint_stars_11.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----1 From: Howard S Shubs [mailto:howard@shubs.net]=20  Sent: December 8, 2002 7:02 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...    , In article <3df3d241$1@news.swissonline.ch>,7  "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk> wrote:   H > If HP is serious about keeping VMS then there's a tremendous amount of  H > work required to persuade programmers and enthusiastic system managers  J > that VMS is an interesting environment to work in. HP needs to stress=20F > the benefits not only at a high level to the IT managers but also=20D > technically to the people who would develop in and maintain VMS=20 > environments.   C What it comes down to for me is, VMS is no longer being used for=20 I anything interesting.  It's used by large corporations who move slowly=20 J enough that their inertia hasn't let them change yet.  As time goes on,=20H the corporations involved will only get bigger and more calcified as the  5 ones with less organizational inertia move elsewhere.   J VMS is on its last breaths.  People can stick with it if they like, but=20B the rest of us are bootstrapping into other OSs in order to get=20* experience people might actually look for.   --=20 4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 08:11:07 -0500 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...< Message-ID: <howard-9D6FCB.08110709122002@enews.newsguy.com>   In article  H <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BE4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> , )  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:    > ROTFL ...  >  > :-)   E I dont' find it even slightly amusing.  I invested 20 years into VMS.     = > I guess financial, medical, education, government, telecom, > > manufacturing, security sectors don't count in your view eh?  D I -said- "large companies with lots of organizational inertia", yes.    8 > Secure eBusiness is also not important either I guess?  H Apparently not.  I have to work with the systems my employers, whomever I they are, use.  The arena consisting of employers looking for VMS people  G has been shrinking for a long time, and now that HP has bought Compaq,  
 is imploding.     I > Or perhaps Customers aren't looking at server consolidation and perhaps I > don't want virus free file-n-print environments either (one Cust I know J > of has 6,000 end users on 4 node ES45 OpenVMS Advanced Server cluster..) > ??  E You can't argue this with me.  I'm in favor of VMS.  It's the people  J with the POs that aren't, and they pay my (potential and real) paycheck.   Argue with -them-.  G The death of Tru64 in favor of that crap HP/UX is getting companies to  H dump what-is-now-HP in droves, as far as I can tell.  Stupid move, HP.   Really, really stupid move.   D I'll check out your URLs later, for amusement, as they really don't I matter: you're preaching to the choir here, by definition.  Convince the  H bosses of the world to migrate -to- VMS instead of -from- it, and we'll  see.  It won't happen, though.   --  4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:52:35 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BE6@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Howard,   G <<< I'll check out your URLs later, for amusement, as they really don't = matter: you're preaching to the choir here, by definition.<<<   G I'm not saying that marketing could not be better for OpenVMS (actually F HP in general actually), but these recent URL's show that existing andH new Customers and ISV's are investing in HP OpenVMS. The last AmbassadorH meeting had something like 40 ISV's attend the ISV evening (Mon night at) Ambassador meeting is usually ISV night).   C In addition, yes, the IT market is suffering and many companies are E cutting back in many area's, but that is not unique to OpenVMS. It is  happening on all OS platforms.  H So, while I obviously have no idea of what is happening in your company,F I posted those URL's to show that these previous statements I made are not just pie-in-the-sky stuff.     Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----1 From: Howard S Shubs [mailto:howard@shubs.net]=20  Sent: December 9, 2002 8:11 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BE4@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> , )  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:    > ROTFL ...  >=20 > :-)   E I dont' find it even slightly amusing.  I invested 20 years into VMS.     @ > I guess financial, medical, education, government, telecom,=20> > manufacturing, security sectors don't count in your view eh?  D I -said- "large companies with lots of organizational inertia", yes.    8 > Secure eBusiness is also not important either I guess?  J Apparently not.  I have to work with the systems my employers, whomever=20H they are, use.  The arena consisting of employers looking for VMS people  I has been shrinking for a long time, and now that HP has bought Compaq,=20 
 is imploding.     D > Or perhaps Customers aren't looking at server consolidation and=20H > perhaps don't want virus free file-n-print environments either (one=20G > Cust I know of has 6,000 end users on 4 node ES45 OpenVMS Advanced=20  > Server cluster..) ??  G You can't argue this with me.  I'm in favor of VMS.  It's the people=20 H with the POs that aren't, and they pay my (potential and real) paycheck.   Argue with -them-.  I The death of Tru64 in favor of that crap HP/UX is getting companies to=20 J dump what-is-now-HP in droves, as far as I can tell.  Stupid move, HP. =20 Really, really stupid move.   F I'll check out your URLs later, for amusement, as they really don't=20H matter: you're preaching to the choir here, by definition.  Convince the  J bosses of the world to migrate -to- VMS instead of -from- it, and we'll=20 see.  It won't happen, though.   --=20 4 Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:09:48 -0800' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...8 Message-ID: <20021209080948.1d88faa6.mathog@caltech.edu>  ! On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:29:32 -0500 ( "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:  	 > Howard,  > G > >>> What it comes down to for me is, VMS is no longer being used for  I > anything interesting.  It's used by large corporations who move slowly  : > enough that their inertia hasn't let them change yet.<<< >  > ROTFL ...  >  > :-)  > = > I guess financial, medical, education, government, telecom, > > manufacturing, security sectors don't count in your view eh?  8 If the data center VMS machine runs Oracle to keep trackC of product inventory and/or company financial data the applications F are essentially the same no matter what sector the entity operates in.< As far as printing paychecks goes it hardly matters what the workers are doing.  @ So there's VMS for financial applications (some), inventory, andD driving certain high tech super expensive DOD machinery.  But that'sF pretty much it.  Compare that impoverished list of software categoriesD with the variety of software which runs on x86 machines these days. + Ie, all of the above, plus everything else!    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:24:45 -0500' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660BEB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   David,  4 <<< I.e., all of the above, plus everything else!>>>  H Yep, Dr. Watson is another popular program that seems to be getting lots of run time these days.=20  G Also, security and virus issues .. Course, how important are these eh ?   
 Reference:6 http://news.com.com/2100-1001-976440.html?tag=3Dfd_top   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)      -----Original Message-----1 From: David Mathog [mailto:mathog@caltech.edu]=20  Sent: December 9, 2002 11:10 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...    ! On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:29:32 -0500 ( "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:  	 > Howard,  >=20F > >>> What it comes down to for me is, VMS is no longer being used forH > anything interesting.  It's used by large corporations who move slowly: > enough that their inertia hasn't let them change yet.<<< >=20 > ROTFL ...  >=20 > :-)  >=20@ > I guess financial, medical, education, government, telecom,=20> > manufacturing, security sectors don't count in your view eh?  8 If the data center VMS machine runs Oracle to keep trackG of product inventory and/or company financial data the applications are E essentially the same no matter what sector the entity operates in. As E far as printing paychecks goes it hardly matters what the workers are  doing.  H So there's VMS for financial applications (some), inventory, and drivingH certain high tech super expensive DOD machinery.  But that's pretty muchC it.  Compare that impoverished list of software categories with the = variety of software which runs on x86 machines these days.=20 + Ie, all of the above, plus everything else!    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:03:11 -0600, From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...+ Message-ID: <at2ko1$fa7$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3DF40E80.402E15E9@vl.videotron.ca... L > Attracting developpers to VMS would be a lot easier if VMS ran on the 8086@ > since anyone and everyone could learn about VMS in their home.  H Right now eBay has five real Alphas and a Multia available.  Some AlphasH cannot run VMS, and Multia is not supported but code that works has beenL posted thanks to friendly VMS developers.  It should not take long to find aJ suitable used Alpha, and even if it needs more memory or disk, you can getK the base system and buy memory and disk without breaking the bank.  All you L need is a CPU with Ethernet and enough RAM and disk, and you're in business.J Add a VMS-supported video card, and with a cheap KVM switch you can have aI VMS workstation that uses your existing PC's keyboard, monitor and mouse.   D Itanium is espensive today.  So was Pentium when 486 was king.  LikeJ everything else, Itanium's price will come down, and Opteron might make itH happen sooner than Intel would like.  Until then, eBay and other sourcesH will have Alphas.  You might even find someone who will let you rescue a) retired Alpha or VAX from the scrap heap.  > H > Alternatively, making all remaining vaxstations available easily would
 also help.  K I don't see any on eBay right now, but they come up, too, and at even lower K prices than Alphas.  Some VAXes have relatively slow CPUs that only support J a small amount of non-standard memory, some can only support small or DSSIG disks, some (all?) VAXstations use non-PC compatible monitors, and some 1 features of VMS are omitted from the VAX version.  > D > The Hobbysit programme is perhaps the one thing which has the most	 potential 
 > for VMS.  E True.  It could be even better if Charon-VAX were still available for K hobbyists.  Unfortuately, after too many thieves abused the vendor's trust, & the hobbyist program was discontinued.  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:23:58 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>  Subject: another partner* Message-ID: <at2925$e3q$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   XLN Software Products   D Note: All software products are supported by XLN software engineers.    A XLNnavigate <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNnavigate.html>   J Easily create customizable menu and navigation systems for enterprise-wideC applications. Replicates the legacy Office Automation ALL-IN-1 menu C capabilities without costly development and can be administered and 9 customized by the end user without programming knowledge. = Runs on OpenVMS 6.2-1b and above for VAX and Alpha platforms.   G XLNperformance <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNperformance.html> C System Management utility that monitors and deletes idle processes. H Customizable system and end user messages with low cost-per-user pricingL makes this utility an excellent replacement for other more expensive options" without all the licensing hassles.= Runs on OpenVMS 6.2-1b and above for VAX and Alpha platforms.   ? XLNenhance <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNenhance.html> K System Management/Project Management utility designed primarily to optimize I RMS indexed sequential file performance and secondarily, allows easy data G field conversion from one size or format to another. Fully configurable H input template allows any number of date fields and file relations to be
 specified.= Runs on OpenVMS 6.2-1b and above for VAX and Alpha platforms.   
 Charon-VAX  I Run your VAX/VMS environment on a Windows platform using modern hardware. K Charon-VAX provides new life for VAX/VMS software and software applications - through VAX/VMS emulation on modern hardware.   L We also provide a complete service package to move your VAX/VMS applicationsH onto an industry-standard PC server without conversion! This drasticallyA reduces maintenance expenses, extends the lifetime of the VAX/VMS K application, and provides a totally seamless transition for your users. And ; the cost will give you a positive ROI in months, not years!   = Runs on Microsoft Windows NT/2000, and AXP OpenVMS platforms.           = XLNdocket <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNdocket.html> H XLNdocket is a full-featured docket and case management system for legalK firms and court systems. XLNdocket keeps track of court cases from start to B finish including attorney hours, billable time, schedules for bothI interested parties and courtrooms, and a complete history of each clients E progress through the legal process. XLNdocket integrates with Crystal J Reports, Microsoft Word and Microsoft Outlook. XLNdocket is a foundationalL software system that can be customized to your business processes. XLNdocket1 can utilize SQL or Access as its database engine. < PC application runs under Microsoft Windows 98/NT/2000, with$ WindowsNT Server on database server.    ? XLNarchive <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/xlnarchive.html> J Data Archive system written for speed and simplicity. This system displaysH and re-prints customer data using current CD-ROM technology as a storageG medium. Designed for industries like telecommunications, banking, legal F firms, and others where storage of large amounts of customer data on aK production system is prohibitive, XLNarchive allows fast and easy access to J important documents. Easy to learn end-user application has intuitive lookE and feel of familiar Windows products while the customizable back-end L processing allows for large or small scale environments. XLNarchive supportsL multiple CD-ROM's and datasets. XLNarchive is a foundational software system2 that can be customized to your business processes.7 PC application runs under Microsoft Windows 98/NT/2000.       
 XLNbarcode  K Running on a Palm OS handheld, XLNbarcode does the actual barcode scanning, K accumulates inventory data, and downloads it to a local PC server. The data K can then be integrated with your existing inventory database. XLNbarcode is F a foundational software system that can be customized to your businessA processes. Take the convenience of a PDA and add the scanning and E downloading features - now you know how much more useful the handheld  computer can be!   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:46:44 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Help! VMS 7.2 boot problems) Message-ID: <3DF46683.BFEDD523@127.0.0.1>    Timothy Stark wrote:  L > Ok, thank you for information.   I attached my new copy to DKA0, and moved > my old copy toI > DKA1.  I successfully booted a new copy of OpenVMS 7.2.  I attempted to  > mount my oldG > copy but MOUNT command hung forever.  I found out that my old copy is G > corrupted because MOUNT told me that volume was imporerly mismounted, N > rebulld in progress.  I let it to run overnight.  I woke up and checked whatH > happened.  Rebuild procedure still is running!  I tried to kill it butK > system hung forever.  Only way for solution is re-install everything. :-(   
 Maybe not.  @  TO get going, you could boot conversational, and set the SYSGEN parameter ACP_REBLDSYSD to 0  8 This should in theory have gotten your sys disk mounted.  ? I would try using ANAL/DISK and check for any relevant patches.    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:26:57 -0600 , From: Gary L. Ross <rossgl@parknicollet.com>$ Subject: KFPSA and Alpha Station 2558 Message-ID: <e2h9vu0fm289guae2pha81b2j3mcf92bvl@4ax.com>  ? Is the KFPSA (DSSI adapter) supported on the Alpha Station 255?    Gary   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 22:25:06 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DF41B22.38882EEB@fsi.net>    Daryl Jones wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>...D > > In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andH > > Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forG > > Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.  > >  > > , > > SUN PONDERS OFFERING OPEN-SOURCE SOLARIS > > / > > Posted December 05, 2002 12:58 Pacific Time  > > : > > SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems is pondering whether9 > > or not to offer Solaris code in an open-source format 8 > > to boost deployment of the operating system on Intel: > > hardware, but questions remain about the effectiveness2 > > of open source, a Sun official said this week. > > 6 > > The company is looking at allowing users to access5 > > Solaris in an open-source format, noting that the 5 > > recent early release program for Solaris 9 on the 6 > > Intel x86 platform has generated about 1.4 million1 > > downloads for the $20 offering, said Jonathan 8 > > Schwartz, Sun executive vice president for software.6 > > Schwartz spoke during an interview Tuesday evening: > > prior to a private Sun-sponsored screening of the film > > "Solaris" in San Francisco.  > >  > >  > > For the full story: V > > http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/12/05/021205hnopensolaris.xml?1206fram > > 
 > > ****** > > I > > Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 and Affordable OpenVMS should note the L > > number and price of downloads for Solaris Intel, given that availability  > > was announced only recently. > > $ > > Are there any further questions? > >  > > The defense rests. >  > David, > E > I have seen several discussion here at comp.os.vms about a Intel 32 E > bit version for VMS. I don't understand why you and other's seem to A > scream for the need for OVMS on a 32 bit Intel chip! The 32 bit H > architecture has been viewed not a viable solution for computing since
 > the 1990's;   	 <sarcasm> F Hence, Digital had their attempts at IA32 servers, Compaq came up withH their large, rack-mount Proliants, Dell has their own "enterprise class"' (acknowledged oxymoron) IA32 servers...   ) ...and that's just the years since 1990.    H No, no use for 32 bit machines at all anymore. Never mind that there areF 100's of millions of them (which number is still growing) vs. 100's ofD thousands of Alphas (which number is shrinking at an ever increasing rate).  2 No, there's no use - or market - for OpenVMS-IA32.  E ...and those 1.4 million folks who downloaded Solaris/Intel? Probably + just hobbyists, hackers and script kiddies.   B ...and that $28 million that Sun grossed on those downloads? ChumpH change. I blow more than 100 times that at the gambling boats every week (yeah, right!).   8 > thus the Alpha chip! It appears that MicroSoft doesn't@ > what to support some of the old x86 architecture in its new OSG > offerings. If Solaris want to spend their time with x86 architecture, G > I think it great! No better way for them to spend dollars in the long G > run. Again, the furture of OVMS is not with the Intel 32 bit chip but  > with the Intel 64 bit chip.   E ...and those will be mass-producible, ready-for-prime-time, ... when?   . Before or after Alpha goes out of manufacture?  , > Both HP and Compaq when separated made theF > decision to dropped their own chip design efforts and concentrate onG > providing software and service solutions. This is where the growth is B > and with that income. Furthermore, I don't see Solaris to be theH > computer company to be compared to when talking about OVMS. Now if you9 > want to compare Solaris to the PC market, that's great!   D Oh, yeah - lots of games, office app.'s and other stuff for Solaris,E never mind the web-serving, graphics chomping and database software -  that's just nonsense anyway.  
 </sarcasm> Got the picture now?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:11:49 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3DF46C65.9090401@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote: b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>... > B >>In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andF >>Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forE >>Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.  >>" >>Are there any further questions? >> >>The defense rests. >  > @ > and your point is what?  Slowaris is in the same boat as other= > unix/linux garbage ... VMS is superior to all them ... they = > can give it away and I will still pay for VMS because it is ? > the best hands down ... "if its free, there must be a reason, > > and 99.9% of the time the reason is no one would buy it" ...  1 How is OpenVMS superior ? A factual justification  please Bob.   4 You will need to do better than your Alpha is faster4 claims which you will remember you completely failed to justify.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:13:05 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?+ Message-ID: <at21ch$m64$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   w In article <8a646952.0212081507.5d62bc6c@posting.google.com>, jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes: a >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>...  >  >David,  > D >I have seen several discussion here at comp.os.vms about a Intel 32D >bit version for VMS. I don't understand why you and other's seem to@ >scream for the need for OVMS on a 32 bit Intel chip! The 32 bitG >architecture has been viewed not a viable solution for computing since C >the 1990's; thus the Alpha chip! It appears that MicroSoft doesn't ? >what to support some of the old x86 architecture in its new OS F >offerings. If Solaris want to spend their time with x86 architecture,F >I think it great! No better way for them to spend dollars in the longF >run. Again, the furture of OVMS is not with the Intel 32 bit chip butG >with the Intel 64 bit chip. Both HP and Compaq when separated made the E >decision to dropped their own chip design efforts and concentrate on F >providing software and service solutions. This is where the growth isA >and with that income. Furthermore, I don't see Solaris to be the G >computer company to be compared to when talking about OVMS. Now if you 8 >want to compare Solaris to the PC market, that's great! >  >Daryl Jones  I Five to ten years or so ago it might have made sense to port VMS to IA32. I IA32 is as much on death row as ALPHA. VMS is being ported to Intel's new K architecture IA64. I wish it was also being ported to AMDs new architecture @ Hammer. Neither Intel nor AMD want IA32 to survive much longer.   L Solaris on Intel is a different proposition. The port to IA32 was made yearsM ago. All that has happened is that user pressure has forced SUN to reconsider ' their plans to drop Solaris 9 on Intel. N There is a vast difference in spending money on porting an OS to IA32 now and = upgrading an already ported OS to the latest version on IA32.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:21:57 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?+ Message-ID: <at21t5$m64$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>c  k In article <iaSI9.168735$GR5.54788@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes:l> >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message* >news:3DF3E6CE.4C8B8840@vl.videotron.ca... >> Daryl Jones wrote:eH >> > bit version for VMS. I don't understand why you and other's seem to9 >> > scream for the need for OVMS on a 32 bit Intel chip!a >>L >> There is no demand for VMS on the 8086 because there is no demand for VMSJ >> period. And there is no demand because there is no marketing and VMS is >only L >> available on obscure platforms. Put VMS on the 8086, and all of a sudden, >you/ >> have the potential of a huge installed base.s >gK >The classis 8x86 architecture, as typically implemented in a M$ compatibleaL >system, is incapable of supporting OVMS without a severe lobotomizing. SuchL >lobotomization would be expensive and require significant rewriting, and in< >the end, would only be suitable for a hobbyist application. >hF >Just a few reasons why this won't work: The 8x86 CPU lacks sufficientL >processor modes (KESU). OVMS' current inplementation requires all four, andJ >to do with less would require significant re-working. As implemented on aM >typical PC motherboard, the interrupt structure (if you can call it that) isdH >nothing compared to the VAX or Alpha vectored interrupts. The memory isJ >bank-switched with a hole between 640K-1M, as opposed to the VAX or AlphaM >linear memory model. There is no real memory management support to speak of.o >I could go on...u >iA >In short, shoe-horning OVMS onto the bastardized 1980's era 8x86-L >architecture just isn't worth it, just to put it in the hands of people whoH >won't be paying for it anyway. If HP were to do this, the result likelyK >wouldn't be OVMS as we know and love, but some reliability-impaired subset. >with a similiar name. >  >MLi >l  N Not sure if those can be considered valid objections anymore - after all we doF have VAX hardware emulators running on IA32 which allow VMS to be run.F However I don't see the point of porting to IA32 (especially since the5 emulators exist) when IA32 has a very limited future. L If you want to run VMS on a spare IA32 box then get one of the VAX emulators and run it. H Since I have severe doubts about the future viability of IA64 I would be+ happier for HP to port VMS to 64bit Hammer.l  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     ------------------------------   Date: 9 Dec 2002 09:27:27 -0800t( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212090927.12c833bc@posting.google.com>u   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF46C65.9090401@nospamn.sun.com>...o > Bob Ceculski wrote:cd > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>... > > D > >>In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andH > >>Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forG > >>Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.e > >>$ > >>Are there any further questions? > >> > >>The defense rests. > >  > > B > > and your point is what?  Slowaris is in the same boat as other? > > unix/linux garbage ... VMS is superior to all them ... theyr? > > can give it away and I will still pay for VMS because it ispA > > the best hands down ... "if its free, there must be a reason,n@ > > and 99.9% of the time the reason is no one would buy it" ... > 3 > How is OpenVMS superior ? A factual justificationi
 > please Bob.6 > 6 > You will need to do better than your Alpha is faster6 > claims which you will remember you completely failed
 > to justify.' > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrisone  > clustering, security, reliability, real-time, uptime, 31 certs= in 13 years while over 500 in 5 years for slowaris ... do you  want me to continue?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:26:37 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyn6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3DF4D24D.2050804@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:) > In article <3DF15610.C34D0025@fsi.net>,t6 > 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > B >>In InfoWorld on-line today... Opponents of both OpenVMS-IA32 andF >>Affordable OpenVMS should note the number and price of downloads forE >>Solaris Intel, given that availability was announced only recently.i >> >>* >>SUN PONDERS OFFERING OPEN-SOURCE SOLARIS >>- >>Posted December 05, 2002 12:58 Pacific TimeV >>8 >>SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems is pondering whether7 >>or not to offer Solaris code in an open-source format-6 >>to boost deployment of the operating system on Intel8 >>hardware, but questions remain about the effectiveness0 >>of open source, a Sun official said this week. >>4 >>The company is looking at allowing users to access$ >>Solaris in an open-source format,  >  > > > Maybe Andrew can field this one, but before anyone here gets> > overly concerned about an "Open Source" Solaris offering yet? > another threat to VMS I think it should be explained how they ? > can "Open SOurce" something that is still covered by patents,,< > copyrights and trade secrets they don't own.  It should be= > noted that while the current owner of that IP have releasedu= > some of it it only cover Unix upt to about 32V and does nott@ > include System V on which Solaris is built.  Now, if they were> > still using SunOS perhaps this might be possible (although I> > could be wrong about that too as I haven't really researched> > the ancestry of every Unix version) but I don't believe even > SYS III is free yet. >   2 Sun bought the IP for Solaris from USL a long time ago for a one off fee.  1 We have been unencumbered with the UNIX licensingt scheme ever since.   Regardsw Andrew Harrison0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:02:24 +05304 From: Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com>G Subject: OT:Ever Notice (was RE: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?)nI Message-ID: <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2609D4EC3@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>e   Hi all,nK I came across the latest VMS Manuals. It shows a person sitting in front of  a couple of  *Sun* monitors. _ Way to go HPAQ!!  	 Cheers...p Tadimeti Kesav KEANE INDIA Ltd.
 E9 - E12, SDFw NEPZ NOIDA - 201 305p
 U.P, INDIA   Telefon: +91-120-456 8210 (211)p% e-mail: kesav_tadimeti@keaneindia.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:28:39 -0500s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)K Subject: Re: OT:Ever Notice (was RE: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?)nL Message-ID: <rdeininger-0912020728390001@user-2ive3qr.dialup.mindspring.com>  I In article <8EA11405E59BD611BA7100104B93C2609D4EC3@exdel01.del.mgsl.com>,M5 Kesav Tadimeti <Kesav_Tadimeti@KeaneIndia.com> wrote:e   >Hi all,L >I came across the latest VMS Manuals. It shows a person sitting in front of >a couple of  *Sun* monitors.  >Way to go HPAQ!!r  H Those aren't the latest manuals.  The V7.3-1 manual set doesn't have any
 Sun logos.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:56:17 -05003 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)h4 Message-ID: <OnTI9.5315$X%3.4507@news.bellsouth.net>  H There is a top secret way to do the S/N load.  It's too DANGEROUS to say	 more. . .s  6 "Wilko Bulte" <wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl> wrote in message8 news:3df3c689$0$2229$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl...D > In <3DF1AA48.1041166@kolumbus.fi> Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?=! <Veli.Korkko@kolumbus.fi> writes:a >f > >Manser wrote: > >>0 > >> nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in message9 news:<2178d61f.0212051622.1901f7e0@posting.google.com>... K > >> > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message=; news:<4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...aE > >> > > In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>-4 > >> > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote: > >> > >G > >> > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote ineC message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...sI > >> > > > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com>1 >e
 > >> Example:e" > >> HSZ> set this prompt="HSZ02>"J > >> Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This controller cannot be used  >nG > Bad news, you probably at some time have suffered a disconnect of theg3 > lithium battery that powers the non-volatile RAM.r >oK > There is no field-tool to reprogram the serial#, as the serial# were usedt > to verify warranty claims. >e3 > All HSZ50 are out of warranty of course by now ;)p >e > W? >  > --% > |   / o / /_  _   wilko@FreeBSD.org, > |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Dec 2002 02:49:42 -0800s  From: nmanser@progis.de (Manser)I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)e= Message-ID: <2178d61f.0212090249.78ac1d3b@posting.google.com>v  o wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) wrote in message news:<3df3c689$0$2229$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>...cf > In <3DF1AA48.1041166@kolumbus.fi> Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <Veli.Korkko@kolumbus.fi> writes: >  > >Manser wrote: > >> hj > >> nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in message news:<2178d61f.0212051622.1901f7e0@posting.google.com>... > >> > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>... E > >> > > In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>a4 > >> > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...iI > >> > > > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com>e >  ,
 > >> Example:5" > >> HSZ> set this prompt="HSZ02>"R > >> Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This controller cannot be used > H > Bad news, you probably at some time have suffered a disconnect of the 3 > lithium battery that powers the non-volatile RAM.o > K > There is no field-tool to reprogram the serial#, as the serial# were usedy > to verify warranty claims. > 3 > All HSZ50 are out of warranty of course by now ;)a >  > W?    C when i bought the controller, and when i powered it up, i could notu. get access to the CLI, (see my postings below)D so i disconected the lithium battery for 30 min. and reconnected it.D then i could get access to the CLI. (the collegue of the vendor told me that)  F that is right, the HSZ's are out of warranty and support (I don't have	 a service'
 contract).    
 My question: e  B Is this error (Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This= controller cannot be used) due to the fact that one ECB 1 noto functioning, and the other is low ? that is the last issue i think.e   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Dec 2002 02:51:43 -0800e  From: nmanser@progis.de (Manser)I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)m= Message-ID: <2178d61f.0212090251.5d7bd2e7@posting.google.com>i  o "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> wrote in message news:<OnTI9.5315$X%3.4507@news.bellsouth.net>... J > There is a top secret way to do the S/N load.  It's too DANGEROUS to say > more. . .r >   H when i will have used all the means of getting it OK (new ECB Batteries)? it will be an issue to try this top secret way to load the S/N.e    8 > "Wilko Bulte" <wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl> wrote in message: > news:3df3c689$0$2229$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl...F > > In <3DF1AA48.1041166@kolumbus.fi> Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?=$ >  <Veli.Korkko@kolumbus.fi> writes: > >e > > >Manser wrote: > > >>2 > > >> nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in message< >  news:<2178d61f.0212051622.1901f7e0@posting.google.com>...M > > >> > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in messagea> >  news:<4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...G > > >> > > In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>a6 > > >> > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:
 > > >> > >I > > >> > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote ineF >  message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...K > > >> > > > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com>w >  e > > >> Example:f$ > > >> HSZ> set this prompt="HSZ02>"L > > >> Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This controller cannot
 >  be used > >tI > > Bad news, you probably at some time have suffered a disconnect of thea5 > > lithium battery that powers the non-volatile RAM.v > >.M > > There is no field-tool to reprogram the serial#, as the serial# were usedm > > to verify warranty claims. > > 5 > > All HSZ50 are out of warranty of course by now ;)v > >t > > W? > >o > > --' > > |   / o / /_  _   wilko@FreeBSD.org  > > |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulten   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:44:49 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) K Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroupj+ Message-ID: <at1vng$lk6$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>t  c In article <z9mI9.33349$A9.503339@news.chello.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: ` >In article <3DEF8348.64B322FE@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:J >>So, in brief, the net result of the proposal being prepared would be the! >>creation of two new newsgroups:  >>1 >>comp.os.vms.technical  which would be moderatedt3 >>comp.os.vms.advocacy   which would be unmoderateda >>/ >>and the removal of the comp.os.vms newsgroup.a >a >NO. DON'T TOUCH COMP.OS.VMS ! >nC >I also don't like reading the various OT threads, but that is whate? >the kill-thread command/key in the newsclient is invented for.a >iI >There is a already a good VMSNET hierarchy with various specific groups.s? >But VMSNET seems not very popular nowadays. Why, I don't know.eL >(Maybe because there are not mailling-lists gatewayed to all VMSNET groups) >rL >If you want to do something about the noise level reduction, then eg. startM >mailing-lists for (almost) every group of VMSNET and try to move discussionseJ >from COMP.OS.VMS to the appropriate VMSNET group (because then the reason> >of many people to stay only in COMP.OS.VMS/INFO-VAX is gone). >cD >But don't forget that not all newsservers host the VMSNET hierarchyH >(but all _I_ have seen, have them) and not all people prefer discussingD >such things in more than one place (eg. I do not want to discuss inD >openvms.org because I discuss already in VMSNET.*, *COMP.OS.VMS and+ >COMP.SYS.DEC and that's more than enough).r >eB However you can always access the vmsnet hierachy through google -B go through the "Browse complete list of groups" link from the main page or   ? http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=vmsnetu  D if your newsserver doesn't host the vmsnet hierachy for some reason.  N (alternatively of course you could always contact those running the newsserver* and ask them to host the vmsnet hierachy.)    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 18:08:50 +0100$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>Y Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup -         No n+ Message-ID: <00A18336.7D5FC8AD.11@decus.de>b  ) "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote:n   > [...]2 >: > > > You like?i > >rD > > Indeed. The huge amount of rather personal questions being askedI > > before was exactly the reason I didn't register up to now. Thank you!g > >' > > Michaelg > >p? > > PS: I registered today using a different e-mail address ...t > L > Wow!  I had no idea some of you had a problem with that.  JF's message wasM > the first I'd ever heard of it.  You guys need to speak up.  I'm willing tooC > make changes to get more participation (within reason of course).c  E Since most of the companies (or organizations) I complained to in theaC past just responded with a "We need that information" (or a similartD message) I stopped complaining long ago. The only information reallyF needed to send a newsletter is the e-mail address and nothing else; ofC course it would be polite to give the (real!) name of the recipientOF and perhaps the location (country). All other questions -- if asked at- all -- should be marked as "optional answer".s   Michaelc  D PS: For similar reasons I stopped complaining to companies about webH pages that are simply useless having JavaScript disabled in the browser.   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Dec 2002 11:53:27 -0600-- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)1Y Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup -         No  3 Message-ID: <d1GBen4l6Gx+@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  R In article <00A18336.7D5FC8AD.11@decus.de>, Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> writes:+ > "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org> wrote:c >  >> [...] >> >> > > You like? >> >E >> > Indeed. The huge amount of rather personal questions being askeduJ >> > before was exactly the reason I didn't register up to now. Thank you! >> > >> > Michael >> >@ >> > PS: I registered today using a different e-mail address ... >>M >> Wow!  I had no idea some of you had a problem with that.  JF's message wasuN >> the first I'd ever heard of it.  You guys need to speak up.  I'm willing toD >> make changes to get more participation (within reason of course). > G > Since most of the companies (or organizations) I complained to in the.E > past just responded with a "We need that information" (or a similara* > message) I stopped complaining long ago.  @ Likewise for me.  If I see invasive questions I just move along.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:47:01 +0100% From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de>  Subject: TCL for OpenVMS% Message-ID: <3df482b5$1@news.post.ch>h   Hello,  F I know, this question has been discussed before, but I was not able to' retreive a final answer to my question:p  G Is there a TCL package existing for OpenVMS AXP, which does not requirew2 Multinet? (We do not indent to use sockets in TCL)   best regards   Jakob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:57:01 +01000 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: TCL for OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <Bc2J9.18$El1.553098@news.cpqcorp.net>  0 "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> wrote in message news:3df482b5$1@news.post.ch...r > Hello, > H > I know, this question has been discussed before, but I was not able to) > retreive a final answer to my question:  >tI > Is there a TCL package existing for OpenVMS AXP, which does not require 4 > Multinet? (We do not indent to use sockets in TCL) >t Hellom  D I had searched for that a year ago and found nothing. May be, in the meantime...t   Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:08:17 -0500o& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com> Subject: Re: TCL for OpenVMS8 Message-ID: <auf9vuob32auph4hgja13h6nh9qq24nubh@4ax.com>  I On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:47:01 +0100, "Jakob Erber" <erberj@yahoo.de> wrote:r  H >Is there a TCL package existing for OpenVMS AXP, which does not require3 >Multinet? (We do not indent to use sockets in TCL)e  ? The following URL was posted by someone in the past few months:A  ( 	http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/vms-tcl.html  @ I have no experience (do not even know what this is) with TCL...I -------------------------------------------------------------------------eI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com/I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:56:51 +1100e1 From: Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP v5.1 on Alpha kills same on VAX, Message-ID: <3DF45AD3.5020506@tg.nsw.gov.au>   JF Mezei wrote:d > Paddy O'Brien wrote: > I >>One of these is clustered in with a VAXstation.  This had been upgradedMI >>to VMS 7.3 and TCPIP 5.1 about a month ago (all this in preparation fori* >>corporate wanting to get rid of DECnet). >>I >>Nothing had been changed on the VAX this weekend, but after the upgrade . >>on Alpha, I have no TCPIP databases on VAX.  >  > O > You need to provide more details.  What "databases" were ruined on the VAX ? n > K > How is the VAX clustered ? Is its system disk on the VAX, or served by anfJ > Alpha ?  Are there special logical names which you would have modified ?   Thanks,d  H As a minimum the TCPIP$SERVICE database has gone as has the TCPIP$PROXY 	 database.   K Each machine has its own system disk.  But they share SYSUAF (as standard).e  E I have not changed any logical names intentionally.  The VAX was not ,+ re-booted, the Alpha was after the upgrade.o  E If you (JF) or Peter who also responded with wanting more info could y1 tell me what more I can provide, I'll do my best.P   Regards, Paddy      G ***********************************************************************L  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the B addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviserB the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 7 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.s  A If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  A immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the r= individual sender except where the sender expressly and with rC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:28:46 -05005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>L  Subject: VMS Partner information* Message-ID: <at29b6$e9j$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   XLN Software Productsn  D Note: All software products are supported by XLN software engineers.    A XLNnavigate <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNnavigate.html>X  J Easily create customizable menu and navigation systems for enterprise-wideC applications. Replicates the legacy Office Automation ALL-IN-1 menu.C capabilities without costly development and can be administered andb9 customized by the end user without programming knowledge.e= Runs on OpenVMS 6.2-1b and above for VAX and Alpha platforms.n  G XLNperformance <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNperformance.html>eC System Management utility that monitors and deletes idle processes.yH Customizable system and end user messages with low cost-per-user pricingL makes this utility an excellent replacement for other more expensive options" without all the licensing hassles.= Runs on OpenVMS 6.2-1b and above for VAX and Alpha platforms.0  ? XLNenhance <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNenhance.html>>K System Management/Project Management utility designed primarily to optimize7I RMS indexed sequential file performance and secondarily, allows easy datatG field conversion from one size or format to another. Fully configurablesH input template allows any number of date fields and file relations to be
 specified.= Runs on OpenVMS 6.2-1b and above for VAX and Alpha platforms.   
 Charon-VAX  I Run your VAX/VMS environment on a Windows platform using modern hardware.sK Charon-VAX provides new life for VAX/VMS software and software applicationsi- through VAX/VMS emulation on modern hardware.   L We also provide a complete service package to move your VAX/VMS applicationsH onto an industry-standard PC server without conversion! This drasticallyA reduces maintenance expenses, extends the lifetime of the VAX/VMS K application, and provides a totally seamless transition for your users. Ando; the cost will give you a positive ROI in months, not years!r  = Runs on Microsoft Windows NT/2000, and AXP OpenVMS platforms.-          = XLNdocket <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/XLNdocket.html>rH XLNdocket is a full-featured docket and case management system for legalK firms and court systems. XLNdocket keeps track of court cases from start toPB finish including attorney hours, billable time, schedules for bothI interested parties and courtrooms, and a complete history of each clientsmE progress through the legal process. XLNdocket integrates with CrystalIJ Reports, Microsoft Word and Microsoft Outlook. XLNdocket is a foundationalL software system that can be customized to your business processes. XLNdocket1 can utilize SQL or Access as its database engine.n< PC application runs under Microsoft Windows 98/NT/2000, with$ WindowsNT Server on database server.    ? XLNarchive <http://www.xlnsystems.com/products/xlnarchive.html>vJ Data Archive system written for speed and simplicity. This system displaysH and re-prints customer data using current CD-ROM technology as a storageG medium. Designed for industries like telecommunications, banking, legal F firms, and others where storage of large amounts of customer data on aK production system is prohibitive, XLNarchive allows fast and easy access tonJ important documents. Easy to learn end-user application has intuitive lookE and feel of familiar Windows products while the customizable back-endaL processing allows for large or small scale environments. XLNarchive supportsL multiple CD-ROM's and datasets. XLNarchive is a foundational software system2 that can be customized to your business processes.7 PC application runs under Microsoft Windows 98/NT/2000.r      
 XLNbarcode  K Running on a Palm OS handheld, XLNbarcode does the actual barcode scanning,sK accumulates inventory data, and downloads it to a local PC server. The datahK can then be integrated with your existing inventory database. XLNbarcode isnF a foundational software system that can be customized to your businessA processes. Take the convenience of a PDA and add the scanning anddE downloading features - now you know how much more useful the handheld  computer can be!   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:46:48 +0100 (MET)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: XFC questions6 Message-ID: <200212090746.IAA24871@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrotes:   >>>f Try VCC_MAXSIZE.& And see SYSGEN> HELP SYS_PARAM VCC*  :     VCC_MAX_CACHEb  E        (Alpha only) VCC_MAX_CACHE is a special parameter reserved fors        Compaq use only.h <<<e  F What version of OpenVMS do you use? I do use OpenVMS 7.3-1. Under this@ version VCC_MAXSIZE is the value for VIOC and not used with XFC.@ VCC_MAX_CACHE specifies the max. cache size. It is a semidynamic= parameter with a special meaning of -1 (use the half of phys.nD memory). You can this value decrease and increase (max. increase =3DE max. cachesize during startup) online. But as I did red the followingn today (from TSC Muenchen):  L >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>= >>>>>oL The documentation is clearly broken - thanks for the PTR. I'll pass it on t= o the=20L Doc folks. The forced depose using the sysgen parameter VCC_MAX_CACHE and S= ET=20 L CACHE/RESET is broken. It will sometimes work, but more often than not, not= hing=20pL happens. Worse yet, if XFC does start deposing, the depose can be painfully=  slow=20L (one customer noticed XFC taking over 6 hours to drop a few GBs). By the ti= me I=20cL had some time to work on this problem, it was too late in the Ruby schedule=  to=20L make changes here. Reworking the depose code is on the work list for the ne= xt=20l release.=20 K Thanks for the info. Like you said, the XFC did eventually shrink to the=20 L specified size (it took more than a day). The reason for doing it, was mere= ly to=20J observe the effect it would have on the cache efficiency, number of files= =20 L cached, etc. Setting VCC_MAX_CACHE back to the default, seems to work like = a=20L charm, since the cache quickly expanded to make use of the available memory= =20m  K FWIW, that's what we do today: - XFC can get additional memory as long as:=P =20kL - free pages >=3D GROWLIM and - free pages - requested pages >=3D FREELIM a= nd - free=20G pages + modified pages - requested pages >=3D FREEGOAL + MPW_HILIMIT=20hL - We start reclaiming XFC memory if free pages + modified pages drops below= =20c6 FREELIM + MPW_HILIMIT. We then ask for the deficit.=20L - If we notice that free pages + modified pages exceeds MPW_HILIMIT + FREEG= OAL,=20-, we cancel any still outstanding reclamation.L <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<= <<<<   Best regards R. Wingert    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:43:29 -0600, From: "Tony Scandora" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov>5 Subject: Re: ZDNet news: HP gives Alpha one last gasp + Message-ID: <at2ko2$fa7$2@milo.mcs.anl.gov>b  ? "Atlant Schmidt" <atlantnospam@mindspring.com> wrote in messagen( news:3DF0D576.371CFE6E@mindspring.com..., > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-976211.html >t > HP gives Alpha one last gasp >u > By Ian Fried > Special to ZDNet News  > December 5, 2002, 11:12 AM PTa  J A rather poor choice of words, I dare say.  You have to go way down in theK report to find Alpha will likely continue being sold until 2006, which onlytF geologists and cosmologists would consider a gasp.  Save the last gasp4 article until after VMS is in production on Itanium.  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541f scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.680 ************************ou completely failed to justify.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:13:05 +0000 (UTC)+ From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk (David Webb) 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?+ Message-ID: <at21ch$m64$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   w In article <8a646952.0212081507.5d62bc6c@posting.google.com>, jones.computer.srv@worldnet.att.net (Daryl Jones) writes: a >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in  ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    	̪    
̪    ̪    ̪    
̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪     ̪    !̪    "̪    #̪    $̪    %̪    &̪    '̪    (̪    )̪    *̪    +̪    ,̪    -̪    .̪    /̪    0̪    1̪    2̪    3̪    4̪    5̪    6̪    7̪    8̪    9̪    :̪    ;̪    <̪    =̪    >̪    ?̪    @̪    A̪    B̪    C̪    D̪    E̪    F̪    G̪    H̪    I̪    J̪    K̪    L̪    M̪    N̪    O̪    P̪    Q̪    R̪    S̪    T̪    U̪    V̪    W̪    X̪    Y̪    Z̪    [̪    \̪    ]̪    ^̪    _̪    `̪    a̪    b̪    c̪    d̪    e̪    f̪    g̪    h̪    i̪    j̪    k̪    l̪    m̪    n̪    o̪    p̪    q̪    r̪    s̪    t̪    u̪    v̪    w̪    x̪    y̪    z̪    {̪    |̪    }̪    ~̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    ̪    