1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 13 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 687       Contents: Re: "-" or "/" Re: "-" or "/"G Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") " Re: Andrew repats his same old FUD" Re: BIND Resolver cache flush time Re: copy/ftp Re: copy/ftp Re: copy/ftp Re: copy/ftp# Re: DCPS 2.1 and HP LaserJet 5000GN % Re: DEC product line taken over by HP  Re: EV7 Performance benchmarks Re: File update notification- History,design and implementation of VMS info 1 Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info 1 RE: History,design and implementation of VMS info 1 Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info 1 Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info  Re: HP and DirecTV Re: HP and DirecTV1 Re: misc HW maintenance end of life dates, where? + Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker > Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up socketsB RE: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up socketsB Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up socketsB Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up socketsB Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets- Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS ? Re: Presentations of "HP Wonderland Event" (Switzerland) online  Re: Pricing for TCPIP on DS10  Re: Pricing for TCPIP on DS10  RE: Pricing for TCPIP on DS10 O Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks!  Re: Silly HP zx6000 question Re: Silly HP zx6000 question RE: Silly HP zx6000 question Re: Silly HP zx6000 question Re: Silly HP zx6000 question+ Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today. + Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today. H Re: VIP - VMS Information Provider, a powerfull tool for OpenVMS systemsD VIP - VMS Information Provider, a powerfull tool for OpenVMS systems Re: VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP- VMS Marketing sighting (well, Alpha, anyway.) 1 Re: VMS Marketing sighting (well, Alpha, anyway.) ( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS( Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSB Why does BACKUP/IMAGE need write access to INDEXF.SYS, BITMAP.SYS?F Re: Why does BACKUP/IMAGE need write access to INDEXF.SYS, BITMAP.SYS?M Re: [ANN] LORIA ANNOUNCES RELEASE 1.0 OF SMARTEIFFEL, THE GNU EIFFEL COMPILER   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:34:38 +0300 2 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> Subject: Re: "-" or "/" - Message-ID: <3DF8E4CE.9070604@StarLet.SPB.RU>    What is the radcheck ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: 3 > In a PDF presentation about VMS found on the net, 2 > ("AkeBlomberg_OpenVMS_future_technologies.pdf"), > I saw the following :  >  > $ RCHK :== $SYS$TEST:RADCHECK  > $ RCHK, > INO>rchk -nosystem -noglobal -pid 20200406 > % > Now, why on earth isn't that like :  > , > INO>rchk /nosystem /noglobal /pid=20200406 > % > Is RADCHECK a multi-platform tool ? / > Is there also a "native" VMS command syntax ?  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >      --   Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+=        Mobile: +7 (812) 116-3222/NMT,   8 901 300-0102/IMT-MC B     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU0                  http://starlet.spb.ru/~laishev/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 05:01:39 +0100 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: "-" or "/" ; Message-ID: <3df95ba3.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > "Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote: > > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: ) > > > Is RADCHECK a multi-platform tool ?  > >  > > What is the radcheck ? > > > It's a new tool on the new EV7 servers to display the memory; > in different "RADs". A kind of "SHOW MEM" but for a whole  > Marvel system.  F RAD stands for "Resource Affinity Domain" (or something very similar).   cu,    Martin --  J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de J One OS to bring them all      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:23:09 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1212022323090001@user-2ive3gm.dialup.mindspring.com>  9 In article <3DF75CF1.2010107@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble  <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:     > K >That said, one must move forward by realizing that while you don't forget  N >history, least you repeat mistakes, you also don't let history hold you back " >when opportunity presents itself. > I >With that perspective, I'll ask Robert this question.  Is this something  that is N >being worked upon by VMS management, or is there a need for some proposal or # >discussion from the customer base?   H Well, I asked here because I'm curious how many customers would make useE of such a program.  And I wondered if there were some downside that I G haven't thought of.  It doesn't look to me like a significant financial  risk for HP.  I If only 3 people took advantage of it, it wouldn't be worth the trouble.  H If hordes participated, it would tend to prove the demand for dirt-cheapF VMS solutions.  Even if the participation was sub-horde, anything thatJ makes VMS easier to deploy, without hurting HP's income stream, seems like
 a Good Thing.   F I do plan to suggest something along these lines to VMS management.  I' just need a few hours to write it down.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:51:36 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Re: Andrew repats his same old FUD = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212121151.1cfdc446@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF8A716.5080500@nospamn.sun.com>...  > > K > >    True, but in C it's easy to write a buffer overflow and more work to L > >    prevent it.  C++ is the only language that seems to share this.  MostB > >    of Solaris is C and most of VMS is not.  You use a languageJ > >    characterized by a known problem, you get that problem.  Read Sun's+ > >    white paper on the creation of Java.  > >  > ? > However and this is crucial, TCP/IP and all of the supporting ? > SW stack is written in C as is X11 and Motif, these are where = > a huge proportion of the buffer overflow vunerabilites are.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison   B and as we went over this with you before Andrew, TCP/IP stacks are@ not part of VMS but run on it, and most times VMS will catch the< c garbage bugs i.e. from www.process.com ... because VMS was= written by smart people using a smart language (bliss) buffer @ overflows are rare on VMS ... read again a perfect example below- of VMS saving the day from c garbage code ...     ( SNMP Inquiry - Cert Advisory CA-2002-03 O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------   	 Question:   D Are either MultiNet or TCPware affected by CERT Advisory CA-2002-03A in Many Implementations of the Simple Network Management Protocol   (SNMP), dated February 12, 2002?   Answer:   F These SNMP vulnerabilities do NOT pose security risks for MultiNet andF TCPware. MultiNet V4.4A is not vulnerable to these SNMP issues at all.D MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware have minor problems with access violationsA (resulting in the SNMP process dying), but pose no security risk. C Patches for MultiNet 4.3A and TCPware V5.5-3 are available from the E TCPware ECO Database and the MultiNet ECO database. Use the following 
 kit names:   MultiNet V4.3A: SNMP-020_A043  TCPware V5.5-3: SNMPD_V553P011   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 12:08:38 -0800. From: kuzishchin@yahoo.com (Kirill Kuzishchin)+ Subject: Re: BIND Resolver cache flush time = Message-ID: <8cab880b.0212121208.70b75c0c@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DF7DA75.B6F6300D@vl.videotron.ca>...  > 2 > To have it effect the running system, you need:  > ! > TCPIP> SET NOHOST/SYSTEM KIRILL  > N >  (without the /SYSTEM, change will only take effect when TCPIP is restarted) >   < There is no such qualifier /SYSTEM for SET [NO]HOST command:   TCPIP> set nohost/system kirill O %CLI-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and placement 	  \SYSTEM\    Kirill.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 12:08:14 +0100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber)  Subject: Re: copy/ftp + Message-ID: <EW+0Loa7M1Gx@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   e In article <at9kfn$122029$1@ID-138444.news.dfncis.de>, "Rainer Giese" <waste.not@welcome.net> writes:  > F > "Paddy O'Brien" <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag( > news:3DF84E7D.1080904@tg.nsw.gov.au...B >> According to our local network "expert", neither does copy/ftp. > C > According to me, copy/ftp preserves attributes without additional $ > qualifiers, if destination is VMS. >    One restriction:1   VMS attribute preservation works if and only if 1   the FTP software is the same on both ends, ie.  G     either the UCX style or the Multinet style (Multinet,HGftp,Process) J   Also the OPENVMS$FTP* logicals must point to the right FTP client, like:     "OPENVMS$FTP" = "HG_EXE:FTP"!   "OPENVMS$FTPDIR" = "HG_EXE:FTP"       --  N Joseph "Sepp" Huber   mailto:joseph.huber@web.de   http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:20:49 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  Subject: Re: copy/ftp 8 Message-ID: <n3sgvucnkpv61b0mngbqb72390bbhg7hi5@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:37:20 +0200, Gabriel Sterk <Gabi@aipm.co.il>  wrote:  C >Just copied (/ftp) the SYSUAF.DAT file from one node to the other, . >which preserved the attributes (indexed etc.)  C And copy/ftp/fdl will create an RMS FDL attributes text file on the F remote node if it doesn't support VMS mode ftp. This file can  be usedF on incoming ftp to recreate the attributes. Additionally the TCPIP nfsE client will use this file by default to allow RMS to present the file 2 as a native RMS formatted file to any application.  	 >Regards,  >Gabriel Sterk >  >-----Original Message----- 9 >From: Paddy O'Brien [mailto:paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au] + >Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 10:53 AM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: copy/ftp >  >.. A >According to our local network "expert", neither does copy/ftp.   >..  >  >Regards, Paddy    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:15:35 +0100 : From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: copy/ftp / Message-ID: <at9ul0$hk82@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>    Paddy O'Brien wrote:I > The ongoing saga of our corporate wanting to dish DECnet (and anything   > remotely concerned with VMS).  > G > We have looked at RCP and it appears not to be able to copy with VMS   > attributes -- VMS to VMS.  > J > According to our local network "expert", neither does copy/ftp.  Though F > there seem to be qualifiers that should effect this.  HELP seems to / > imply that it is the basic U**X copy not VMS.  > H > How do we copy text files not as stream-LF, and how do we copy binary  > files? >  > Regards, Paddy >  >  >  > I > ***********************************************************************  > E > "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged K > and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressees  E > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of this email,  9 > please delete the message and any attachment and advise D > the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, 9 > distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.  > C > If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid  C > immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the  I > individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority  ; > states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses @ > virus scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses > contained in any attachment. > > > Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now& > firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au" > I > ***********************************************************************  > @ Why don't you use DECnet/OSI over IP, it works very well for us.   --    + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regards     Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.de - mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:07:09 +0100 5 From: "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk>  Subject: Re: copy/ftp , Message-ID: <3df88a06$1@news.swissonline.ch>  G "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in message ) news:at9ul0$hk82@doiweb4.volkswagen.de...    > Paddy O'Brien wrote:J > > The ongoing saga of our corporate wanting to dish DECnet (and anything! > > remotely concerned with VMS).  > > H > > We have looked at RCP and it appears not to be able to copy with VMS > > attributes -- VMS to VMS.   B > Why don't you use DECnet/OSI over IP, it works very well for us. >   I I've got to agree. About two years ago we moved to DECnet Phase V over IP J using DNS for name resolution and have had few problems. It performs well,J initially looks horrible to configure but is in reality very simple... youF can then use the standard COPY without the /FTP as you've done before.   - Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 08:47:47 +1030 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> , Subject: Re: DCPS 2.1 and HP LaserJet 5000GN3 Message-ID: <atb23n$i5q$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>    Paul Anderson wrote:A > In article <at61pe$l7e$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>, Mark Daniel & > <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote: >  > G >>We are having troubles getting a new LaserJet 5000GN to behave itself   
 8< snip 8<  D > What is the printer's personality?  It should be set to AUTO or PSG > (PostScript).  Although we know of no problems with the LaserJet 5000 B > in AUTO mode, try changing it to PostScript to see if it makes a
 > difference.   L Apologies, should have mentioned (it was one of the things suggested when I I originally search the groups via Google).  I have tried both AUTO and PS.   : >>Anyone have this model of printer working with DCPS 2.1? >  > A > I'm sure many do, including here in the DCPS lab.  What is your  > printer's firmware datecode?   971111 MOBY3.60   K I have the printer working with an old raw TCP symbiont I wrote many years  K ago, so I don't think it's anything major or fundamental with the printer.  I   I'd prefer to use DCPS though - it's supported, we have other printers  D using it (including a HP 4100 via RAW TCP), and my raw TCP symbiont I occasionally image dumps and I've never taken the time to track down why.   F We have a software maintenance contract.  Should I just put in a call?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:52:40 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: DEC product line taken over by HP' Message-ID: <3DF93D68.E6179180@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > O > I learned something very interesting yesterday. I called the COMPAQ Retailers K > hot line and asked for advisory support on a potential VAX/VMS to Itanium ( > migration in a few years time (or so). > [snip]  3 The folks at OepnVMS Management have been notified.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:55:43 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: EV7 Performance benchmarks 2 Message-ID: <G3CdnXoYt4V0r2WgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-1112022154380001@user-2ive2fc.dialup.mindspring.com...@ > In article <tPudnX5iM_joI2qgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"! > <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  >  > > L > >There are at least some numbers for ES45s listed in the reference cited -J > >e.g., IIRC 170 ns. average memory latency (the tested EV7 system ran at 1.2 K > >GHz if you want to convert the cycle counts above).  The ES45 L2 latency A > >figures (12 cycles and 19 cycles, for 833 MHz and 1 GHz models 
 respectively)  > D > Something doesn't add up here.  ES45 is offered at 1 and 1.25 GHz.J > Anything about an 833 MHz ES45 must be from something else.  Maybe ES40?  K Yup - my error in quoting from memory rather than going back to the source.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:39:08 -0600 2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>% Subject: Re: File update notification / Message-ID: <uvgbpapo280uca@corp.supernews.com>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3DF66F2C.63791F76@vl.videotron.ca...  > Earl Lakia wrote: K > > Someone had mentioned ACLs on a directory for determing when a file was : > > placed in a directory, could something like this work? > J > You can have an alarm ACE that will trigger an alarm whenver the file isH > accessed (opened). However, if the OBDC server has teh file constantly opened> > and just does read/writes to it, that won't be of much help. > K > If you have access to the server app, the easiest would be to add code to  sendI > a mailbox message to your app to tell it it has received a transaction.   J We solved a problem like this by implementing a detached process that usedK TCP/IP  to listen on a port for messages. When it received a message, after E validating and parsing it, the process submitted a DCL procedure with G parameters (file name, etc., passed in the message) to a batch queue to G perform the desired action. It wasn't very difficult to do as there are : example programs for using TCP/IP sockets in SYS$EXAMPLES:  H The detached process could accept a variety of messages and submit batchL jobs for each. The batch jobs were in a fixed directory and their names wereD hard-coded into the program in the interest of security. We also hadH messages that contained small data files (less than 1.5k bytes) that theJ process wrote to disk, saving us the overhead and security issues of usingI FTP.  This let us send data from a Windows NT  4.0 (on Alpha) server to a J OpenVMS VAX without the bother of ODBC (remember, small data in our case), FTP, RPC, etc.   Regards, Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT net    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 14:09:46 -0800- From: gilbert_aka_gilbert@yahoo.com (gilbert) 6 Subject: History,design and implementation of VMS info= Message-ID: <c3a903ea.0212121409.42db7b51@posting.google.com>   F There is a lot of information on the web on unix but relatively littleB on VMS. I know next to nothing about VMS. Is there a book or guideD (hopefully online) on the design/internals and implementation of the vms/openvms operating system? B Another question: is it a better operating system than the unixes?   Gilbert    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 16:50:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) : Subject: Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info3 Message-ID: <$9VIR1eh0Dmp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <c3a903ea.0212121409.42db7b51@posting.google.com>, gilbert_aka_gilbert@yahoo.com (gilbert) writes: H > There is a lot of information on the web on unix but relatively littleD > on VMS. I know next to nothing about VMS. Is there a book or guideF > (hopefully online) on the design/internals and implementation of the > vms/openvms operating system?   @ The design, internals and implementation are covered in a seriesC of books called the Internals and Data Structures Manual, available  from Digital Press.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:46:21 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>: Subject: RE: History,design and implementation of VMS info0 Message-ID: <01C2A1FE.0E5100F0@sulfer.icius.com>  G The VMS documentation is available on www.openvms.compaq.com:8000. This @ is mostly user and programmer documentation rather than a designD overview, but you can find the answers to most questions if you lookC hard enough. I'm sure there are some knowledgeable design overviews 4 around somewhere, but I'm afraid I don't know where.  H As for "is it better", the answer could be either depending on what for.F The question is the very stuff of flame wars. It is very solid, secureH and reliable. I consider it is one of the finest OSs around, and I thinkD any competant Unix guy who also understands VMS would agree, if he's honest.    Shane    -----Original Message-----# From: gilbert_aka_gilbert@yahoo.com & [mailto:gilbert_aka_gilbert@yahoo.com]) Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 2:10 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 Subject: History,design and implementation of VMS info    F There is a lot of information on the web on unix but relatively littleB on VMS. I know next to nothing about VMS. Is there a book or guideD (hopefully online) on the design/internals and implementation of the vms/openvms operating system? B Another question: is it a better operating system than the unixes?   Gilbert    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:18:52 -0500 ! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com> : Subject: Re: History,design and implementation of VMS infoK Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BB0@rlghncst964.usps.gov>   F There is a lot of information on the web on unix but relatively littleB on VMS. I know next to nothing about VMS. Is there a book or guideD (hopefully online) on the design/internals and implementation of the vms/openvms operating system?   . Others answered your question about internals.  + For some history, check out these two URLs:   $ OpenVMS at Twenty (This was in 1997)6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdf   HP OpenVMS at Twenty-Five 5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/25th/index.html   B Another question: is it a better operating system than the unixes?   Nice try, no comment.    Gilbert    ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 18:50:19 -0800- From: gilbert_aka_gilbert@yahoo.com (gilbert) : Subject: Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info= Message-ID: <c3a903ea.0212121850.373408d6@posting.google.com>   B > The design, internals and implementation are covered in a seriesE > of books called the Internals and Data Structures Manual, available  > from Digital Press.   % Thank you very much that was helpful.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:02:41 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: HP and DirecTV L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1212022302410001@user-2ive3gm.dialup.mindspring.com>  5 In article <3DF8D463.512E818E@swissonline.delete.ch>, $ mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch wrote:  B >I see that DirecTV signed a deal with HP today to "to provide the? >technology platform and ongoing managed services and support".  > I >The full article is at various sources eg. via Yahoo! Financial news for  >HP, or the Bloomberg report at G >http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news that I have  >partially extracted below > F >I'm intrigued that it is reportedly for Tru64 Unix on an Alpha GS boxI >(see 2nd paragraph) when DirecTV has been a long-time VMS user (see last H >paragraph that I have included).  I also note that they have been usingA >VMS systems for billing (and expanded it just last year) but are ) >apparently switching o Tu64 for billing.  >  > E >Is it a reporter's error or are DirecTV really switching platforms ?   - I think they use both, and continue to do so.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 05:19:08 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: HP and DirecTV 2 Message-ID: <3DF96C57.925A03CD@firstdbasource.com>   John McLean wrote: >  <irrelevant stuff snipped>    A > HP is a longtime IT partner with DIRECTV, hosting the satellite D > television service provider's billing computing infrastructure forI > nearly 10 years. Last year, HP installed a 114-terabyte HP StorageWorks G > storage area network (SAN) to support DIRECTV's billing applications, I > one of the largest VMS SANs ever deployed for corporate use anywhere in  > the world  >  > ... (continues)     G Hmmmm.. the company I work for will exceed 114TB with our next purchase H -- soon.  We just surpassed 100TB when we installed 2 more T5's.  All itF takes is  < five "T5" StorageWorks configurations using 72GB drives.    E A T5 config consist of 2 cabinets with 12 shelves each with 14 drives E per shelf (336 drives total*72 = 24TB) and 4 HSG80's.   And just wait 3 until the 144GB drives come out early next year....    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:52:45 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>: Subject: Re: misc HW maintenance end of life dates, where?/ Message-ID: <3DF9679D.82699F28@vl.videotron.ca>    Didier Morandi wrote: R > Where can I find the official HW maintenance end of life dates for the following	 > uVAX-II   I My teenage all mighty Microvax II is very much alive and kicking (in slow  motion, of course!) O It was born in 1987. But I think the model was already a year old by that time.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:07:35 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker& Message-ID: <3DF8EC87.9010304@Free.fr>  P and thanks to "Rseaux & Tlcom" who posted, about your announcement, the very G first press article in France on VMS since the 31st of December 1998...    D.   Jean-loup Gailly a crit: G > A new version of an OpenVMS password cracker, including Vax and Alpha B > executables, is available on my page http://gailly.net/security/ > The initial annoucement was L > http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=as0v2v%249m9%241%40home.gailly.net > H > The new version is significantly faster on most machines, particularlyD > on the Alpha (speed multiplied by 4). The Intel version now checks4 > about 200,000 passwords per second on a 1 GHz cpu. > A > Thanks to Martin Vorlaender for providing the VMS specific code  > for non blocking I/O.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 14:48:16 -0800* From: matt_murdock2@yahoo.com (panamajack)G Subject: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets = Message-ID: <e4fefe33.0212121448.14612e9c@posting.google.com>   E The system seems to be running out of either sockets or PTYS (in unix C language) so after telneting to the openvms system 4 times, no more E connetions are allowed. What tunable controls the number of both ptys B (vms equiv.) and # of sockets that are able to be created? Thanks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:41:55 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> K Subject: RE: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C14@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  1 What versions of OpenVMS and TCPIP are you using?    $ show sys/noproc  $ tcpip show version  G Also - The TCPIP Services troubleshooting guide is online at: (one long 
 url may wrap) H http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/tcpip51/documentation/pdf/TCPIP_troubl
 eshooting.pdf    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----4 From: panamajack [mailto:matt_murdock2@yahoo.com]=20 Sent: December 12, 2002 5:48 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com G Subject: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets     E The system seems to be running out of either sockets or PTYS (in unix C language) so after telneting to the openvms system 4 times, no more E connetions are allowed. What tunable controls the number of both ptys B (vms equiv.) and # of sockets that are able to be created? Thanks.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:56:55 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> K Subject: Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets 2 Message-ID: <3DF9671B.946BCE65@firstdbasource.com>   panamajack wrote:  > G > The system seems to be running out of either sockets or PTYS (in unix E > language) so after telneting to the openvms system 4 times, no more G > connetions are allowed. What tunable controls the number of both ptys D > (vms equiv.) and # of sockets that are able to be created? Thanks.  $ could be a 4 user license or memory.  * give us the output requested by Kerry Main plus: show mem/full    what are the symptoms? what are the error messages?  1 If you are using TCPIP for VMS try the following:    $TCPIP  TCPIP> show service telnet /full   look at the "Limit".    
 then look at   TCPIP> Help set service /limit$ TCPIP> set service telnet /limit=<n>  H If you are using Multinet -- well, I don't have a system running this toH show you examples -- and it has been several years since I actually used it.    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:19:23 -0600 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> K Subject: Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets G Message-ID: <craigberry-1D4198.23192312122002@news.directvinternet.com>    > panamajack wrote:  > > I > > The system seems to be running out of either sockets or PTYS (in unix G > > language) so after telneting to the openvms system 4 times, no more I > > connetions are allowed. What tunable controls the number of both ptys F > > (vms equiv.) and # of sockets that are able to be created? Thanks.  E If there is a specific error message please post it.  In addition to  G what other folks have mentioned, it may be a limitation on the account  H you are using and not the TCP/IP set-up.  You'll need the SYSPRV system  to check the following:   % $ define sysuaf sys$system:sysuaf.dat  $ mcr authorize show foobar   @ where foobar is the username.  Look for maxjobs and other items  beginning with "max".   H For a newbie contemplating what is "tunable" on OpenVMS, the best place  to start is the FAQ:  8 <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html>.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:24:24 -0600 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> K Subject: Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets G Message-ID: <craigberry-0EF95D.23242412122002@news.directvinternet.com>   G In article <craigberry-1D4198.23192312122002@news.directvinternet.com>, 9  "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> wrote:     > You'll need the SYSPRV system   @ Sigh.  I meant the SYSPRV privilege, otherwise known as "system ; privilege."  Type HELP SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE for more info.e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:26:21 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212121126.620b23db@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF8A5AD.8090002@nospamn.sun.com>...n > Bob Ceculski wrote:p > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF7472F.9060103@nospamn.sun.com>...r > >  > >>David J. Dachtera wrote: > >>- > >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:f > >>>  > >>>D > >>>>[snip]= > >>>>Scalability or rather you were right not to mention it.  > >>>e > >>>o > >>>Excuse me?w > >>>c7 > >>>How many nodes are supported in a Solaris cluster?  > >>>e > >>6 > >>If you use SunFire Link then its currently 8 nodes > >>with a switch. > >>2 > >>If you use F15K's then you could have 98 CPU's' > >>per node with 2 SunFire Link cards.t > >> > >>Regardsc > >>Andrew Harrisonv > >  > > A > > and if you use VMS you can use 96 nodes w/multiple cpu's at a C > > distance of 500 miles ... and VMS clustering actually works ...e: > > after 25 years it still kicks @$? over anyone else ...? > > so why waste your money on cheap imitations folks, get realV > > clustering with OpenVMS! > 3 > You could but very very few people do, one of them6 > cluster surveys 4-5 years ago found that the average6 > number of nodes in an OpenVMS/VMS cluster was 6 with > few in double figures. > 6 > If you couple this with the fact that the throughput5 > of each OpenVMS node has always been 1/4 of that of ; > the largest Sun and you end up with a rather unimpressivep > story. > 	 > RegardsS > Andrew Harrison   A only true if you are using scsi 1 or 2 bus as an interconnect ...n; try using memory channel or fibre channel, and combine with @ the new EV7 to provide the highest bandwidth in the industry ...  5 http://www.c3.lanl.gov/par_arch/pubs/LAUR-02-4850.pdfo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:04:46 -0500n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3df8de72$1_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  @ JF Mezei wrote in message <3DF7B1EC.5527DB36@vl.videotron.ca>... >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:e3 >> can't staff them all.  We are committed to IA64.f >OJ >Your mean your employer has announced a commitment to IA64 and is forcing youPJ >to abide by that commitment. The question becomes: what happens when your& >employer's commitment to IA64 drops ? >n >Here si a question:K >Lets say that sometime in 2003 , Hammer comes out and intel announces thatrI >further development of IA64 will be limited to speed bumps, and a new 64  bittK >8086 announced. With the work that will have been done to port VMS to IA64  by: >then, how long would it take to then port VMS to Hammer ? >S >1 year ? 2 years ? 3 years ?i >a  G What if the Sun explodes?  What if aliens land with new technology thatsK obsoletes everything?  What if global warming causes a flood that wipes outI all of Silicon Valley.  J When one of those things happens, we'll figure out the backup plan... *if*G there is a plan that will be made.  Even if the worst case happens, andLG Itanium becomes little more than the HP PA-RISC replacement - it is the0 future of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:10:16 -0500p5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?, Message-ID: <3df8dfbc_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3DF809FF.F31E9F47@fsi.net>...y >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >>) >> You offer no answers that are feasible0 >6 >Yes, I do.D >C% >>, just wishful thinking.  I wish weaI >> had tons of people and money sitting around to do lots of things.  But- IA32K >> wouldn't even get into the top 10 of the things I'd like to do with VMS.- >-F >...which is probably why neither of us heads the VMS team. You're tooB >negative and I'm too positive. Ultimate Success lies somewhere in >between, I should think.. >.  L If *you* are positive, then it redefines the word.  And I'm the friggin blue bird of happyness.  J I'm a realist.  A native port to IA32 of VMS isn't in the cards.  It mightI have been interesting and useful 15 years ago, it isn't now.  IA64 on theoJ other hand is feasible, and meets the requirements of the vast majority of VMS customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:22:45 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?, Message-ID: <3df8e2aa_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  2 Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote in message# <3DF8A87D.70509@nospamn.sun.com>...  >  >a >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: D >> David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3DF2AD72.702E76D6@fsi.net>... >> >>+ >>>DEC Listens? Compaq Listens? HP Listens?s >>>e! >>>The testimony is unmistakable.n >>>i8 >>>Sun has demonstrated responsiveness to its user base. >>>-I >>>VMS has demonstrated ... well, you can finish that sentence, I'm sure.s >>>. >> >> >  >>H >> I think it's keen that Sun is collecting $20 a pop for something that costD >> them relatively little to do, and I imagine the $20 doesn't cover support.. >> Sounds like a cheap hobbyist program to me. >> >> >d6 >Right so it doesn't cost Sun that much to put Solaris1 >on x86 and we derive an incremental benefit fromo >it. >o. >Why does this not apply to OpenVMS as well ?? >s  H 1) UNIX was designed for portability.  VMS was co-designed with the VAX.I 2) UNIX is entirely C language-centric.  VMS is written in VAX assembler, K BLISS, C, and a few other things like ADA, and even some Pascal and PL/I inr odds & ends.  L The port to Alpha "hid" some of the VAX stuff in firmware.  The port to IA64H moves much of what remains into VMS (which is where much of our time hasJ gone).  None-the-less, the first hurdle you have to cross to get to a portK of VMS is a minimum of 3 compilers - Macro-32, BLISS, and C.  The first twofJ are relatively unique to VMS (at least in any current usage).  The callingL standard and the fact VMS made it easy to create mixed language applicationsL means this is a lot harder than just picking up the GCC compiler for the new, system, and hacking the initialization code.  I If you start your design with some abstraction of the underlying machine,uH and confine your OS implementation language to a single widely availableL one - they things are much simpler.  If your design was tighly coupled to anL architecture - as was VAX/VMS - and your implementation languages didn't end4 up to be widespread... then you have a tougher time.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 17:47:42 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212121747.42bafe5f@posting.google.com>o   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF8C3CE.2070804@nospamn.sun.com>...  > Chris Clifford wrote:tO > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > > wrote in message news:3DF8A5AD.8090002@nospamn.sun.com...  > > = > Of course Alpha does give great SPECint and SPECfp but then < > as Freddy memorably pointed out the optimisations used for= > SPECint and SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for customerwB > apps. It isn't a view I necessarely endorse but it was memorable? > since they are almost the only benchmarks that did show Alphaw* > in a good light and Freddy works for HP. >  a	 > regardss > Andrew Harrisone  > this is were you get exposed for the phony you are ... we time= evaluated our synergy dibol apps on both unix and vms ... vms < blew the "sun" garbage system away ... this was a single cpu? vs single cpu test ... you lost big Andrew ... VMS was superior A by a factor of two to one ... alpha destroyed sparky big time ...A? so don't come on here lying about how apps run better on sparky @ then alpha vms ... of course we never tried the 80000 cpu sparky@ to one alpha comparison ... you might have fared better then ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:01:03 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DF809FF.F31E9F47@fsi.net>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > C > David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3DF6BE68.DEC7CA2E@fsi.net>...e > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:l > >> [snip]a8 > >> And say we spent the many millions of $$$ to do it, > >5H > >If it costs that much, consider sending your project managers to some > >training. > >n > K > You really don't have a clue about what the engineering costs are do you?s  D If your costs are that high, you're doing something seriously wrong.  0 > You really think this is some weekend project.  
 Try again.   > >> and pulled all the . > >> engineers off of everything else to do it > >dI > >Throw your pendulum back the other way, make sure it sticks at neitheraI > >extreme and wait for it to settle to center. Then, you'll be where youq > >want to be. > >S >  > I'm not at an extreme. s   Yes, you are. Quoting you:   > >> and pulled all thel. > >> engineers off of everything else to do it   Are there any questions?  1 > We have a limited amount of resources.  We have2J > lists of critical, needed, wishful, and "it would be nice" projects.  We3 > can't staff them all.  We are committed to IA64. n  3 You are committed to ultimate failure in that case.a   > Pick the things on the > list we should *not* do. y  
 1. Kill Alphao 2. Continue to overprice VMS6 3. Continue to refuse to market VMS in the mainstream." 4. Continue to resist OpenVMS-IA32+ 5. Continue to make and then break promisesd  ; Drop these off your list and the results will surprise you.   2 > You *might* argue that Hammer is a better choiceM > than Itanium - but regardless - IA32 would have to be done *in addition to*  > a IA32 project.   3 Huh? IA32 + IA32?? Not sure what you meant to type.e  ; > So, should we not do a new file system?  Drop performancesM > projects?  UNIX portability?  COE?  Marvel?  IO adapters?  You need to dropE > a few of them at least.   F So, all your people are running at 110%? Forgive me if I don't believe that.-  L > To do it as *incremental* work without dropping other work would require a5 > business analysis that would show a substantial ROI:  A See the previous memo. If questions, contact the MBA prof. at theo nearest college.   > - and nothing squishyrM > like it would make a nice development platform for the little guys - a used ( > DS10 or XP1000 makes a nice platform.   9 ...if you can afford it and the licenses to go with it...r  & > And shortly, you will be able to get > Itanium2 workstations.  : Just like Itanic was going to be available five years ago?  F > >Not sure why it's always one way or the other. The middle ground is3 > >increasingly becoming "the road less travelled".l > >s > >> - what would we have? > >n > >A market? > >RE > >Ask yourself: there are more than 200 million IA32 machines in theyK > >world, probably 10% of that are servers of Proliant class or better. The I > >software market for that hardware represents tens (if not hundreds) ofAG > >billions of dollars annually, and still growing. VMS's share of that < > >market is - how much? (Answer just above the sig., below) > >  > 0 > And unless VMS == Windows this is meaningless.  A You weren't paying attention. Read it again. Keep making the same G mistake and you'll end up where everyone says you'll end up: VMS in the 1 toilet and BG the unchallenged King of Computing.   
 > >> Would itiC > >> help our large box customers with better high CPU count boxes?n > >aJ > >Focus on markets as is their due. How many hundreds of millions of suchH > >systems exist in the world today? (Answer just above the sig., below) > >h > 0 > And unless VMS == WIndows this is meaningless.  4 Same comment as above. You weren't paying attention.   > >> Highero > >> reliability?i > >oK > >There's an old proverb: "that which does not kill us makes us stronger".  > >  >  > What on earth does this mean?*  C Would lessons be learned from completing the IA32 port? Are lessonssC being learned during the IA64 effort? Are there any more questions?i  A > >> What?  It would provide a binary incompatable low-end is allv > >> it would do.t > >tK > >Given the curent lack of applications for VMS, the downside of that is -e > >what? > >  > N > And you are dreaming if you think that magic would happen and everyone wouldG > buy a Pentium running VMS and start writing shrink wrap applications.t  G There we go, swinging the pendulum to extremes again. Let's stay in therC middle and get the existing (surviving) stable of software going oneG OVMS-IA32 first, then we'll see what we can do about getting other IA32w app.'s ported to VMS.r  / How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.y   > Youy" > are engaged in wishful thinking.  D No, I'm presenting the business case. You keep pooh-pooh-ing it. TryF opening your mind to something other than the company line long enoughH to see what lies beyond. I know it's a stretch, and it's scary at times,E but try to find a little courage and you'll be surprised how far thati little bit will take you...d  6 > >> We respond to market opportunities is what we do. > > I > >Then why have not yet seen OpenVMS IA32? Exactly how is a niche marketsK > >constituting less than 1% of the total market a greater opportunity than-! > >addessing the market-at-large?  > >1 > L > VMS does not have the capabilities today to be a desktop system to compete > with Windows on the desk  A Go back and re-read the earlier post which talks about "servers".d   Got the picture now?  C ...though I happen to know that some of your colleagues actually dor$ productive work on VMS workstations.  5 > - neither does Linux today even with all the peopleoN > and work that has been done on it (substantially more people and effort thanN > has been available for VMS).  Nor in any pipe dream do I see that happening.  H Better wake up and smell the coffee then! Try subscribing to InfoWorld's# daily mailings. *MOST* interesting!   
 > > [snip]? > >So, why was Alpha killed? How many customers requested that?e > >s > ? > It was killed because it was increasingly a poor investment. s  ; Let me picture the board-room discussion for a moment: "OursE bread-and-butter platform is an 'increasingly a poor investment'; so,aF let's kill it, give away the IP and put all our eggs in someone else's? basket. That'll leave our bread-and-butter product, VMS with nos* marketable platform. We'll make millions!"  @ Does the phrase "fiduciary duty" mean anything to anyone in your
 organization?   ' Has anyone called the padded wagon yet?u   > Did I makeL > that analysis?  No, but I have to accept it.  Customers requested a changeH > by *not* buying Alpha in droves, for what we would say were "inferior" > products - HW and SW.   G Classic case of "have you stopped beating your wife". People are buyingrA what they can afford despite its warts and faults, so rather than F compete, we'll just kill our entire product line and ignore the market trends.g   Did I get it right that time?l   > VMS is a good business,n  ' ...and could be even better, if only...e   > but it's (and Tru64) volume   > alone could not sustain Alpha.  E ...without serious adjustments to the pricing structure and marketing1H strategy to make the products cost-competitive and visible in the market place.  ? Oh, S--T! NO!!! HEAVEN FORBID VMS should ever be COMPETITIVE!!!w  B ...and NO F---ING WAY can we even THINK about advertising!!! Hell,H people might actually buy it and, THEN where would we be? S--T! We might; actually make a PROFIT!!! F---, NO!!! We can't have THAT!!!   / > [Of course, this baits the Bill Tod Knows AlltI > response about his analysis about why Alpha solved world hunger and the-J > Luddites killed it - it doesn't matter - his opinion and mine did not goF > into the analysis that retired future development in favor of IA64].  $ Also lacking was any sane reasoning.  @ ...and of course, the Dachtera Cost-To-Acquire-vs-TCO sermon not withstanding...e  @ > >The demand for Affordable OpenVMS is on-going. Where is that?  F I'm a little dispappointed you chose not to address that comment. Make that a lot disappointed.  H > >IA64 has been trying to get out of the gate for a decade plus, AlphasH > >are on ramp-down and VAX is extinct while IA32 CPUs are still in fullJ > >development and production. Where is the OpenVMS to satisfy the need ofF > >*THAT* "market segment" (i.e., the preponderant bulk of the current > >world-wide EDP market)? > >: > ) > Again, IA32 will not solve our problem.G  G No, not anymore: your problem is a product with no marketable platform.sH Existing Alpha sites view Alpha as a dead-end proposition and IA64 as anD Enterprise wanna-be with an abysmal track record of failures to meetG deadlines and expectations. I gave up trying to sell VMS the third timeTD I got laughed out of a board room (I only got thrown out of building. once - learned that lesson REAL damned quick!)  H No, IA32 is not your problem. IA64 is the albatross around VMS's neck as of the moment.  $ >  Nor would VMS running on it cause$ > some massive switch from Windows.   D Who ever said it would? Has Novell supplanted W/NT and later? Did itF ever hold that ambition? What about Solaris? SCO? BSDI? Why should VMS be thought of that way?y   Keep that pendulum to center!t  ) > More people drive cars than fly planes, ) > but Boeing hasn't stopped making planes-  	 ...yet...a   > to build cars. 0  A There are rail cars on the Chicago light transit and metropolitanuG commuter rail lines bearing the "Made in USA by Boeing" plaque. They'repF ages old (Boeing's been outta that biz for a while), but they survive. Quality, y'know.   > VMS on IA32 would beH > along those lines.  Less capable.  Not a replacement for Alpha, now or > possibly ever.  E No one ever said it should be. Better replacement for VAXes, W/NT and?H later servers where it makes sense to do so, for Novell where that makes
 sense, ...  D Please try to avoid the extremes. I know it's a stretch, but give it try.  G > >> That is to say, real customers, spending real money, want specificuK > >> capabilities and we make the business case for investment.  So far the L > >> investment needed to create a IA32 version of VMS has been too high for > any  > >> potential return on it. > > J > >Check the numbers again... ...and again, and again, and again until you
 > >get right!m > >e >  > You check your numbers.    Don't need 'em.b  & > You don't have any market research.   > Don't need it. Unlike corporate America, I don't have to pay a> consultant millions of dollars to tell me what I already know.  
 > You have. > (obviously) no idea about engineering costs,  % Neither has your group, apparently...    > or just how big a job it is.  G ...and by appearances, your group has blown it so far out of proportion   the damamge may be irreversible.  A > >Better still, stop playing with the numbers, and JUST DO IT!!!l > >a > ! > Good business sense on display.   ) Seems to work for the TRUE entrepreneurs.   E > >Your can't spend all your time at "Ready! Aim! Aim! Aim! Aim! ..."NJ > >Eventually, ya gotta Fire! One of my mentors holds that "I'd rather seeI > >a crooked furrow than a field unplowed". That is, "Ready! Fire!", then J > >Aim. You may hit nothing at first, but at least you'll hit SOMEthing  -G > >eventually! Keep refining your aim while firing. Sure you'll "waste"jG > >some rounds, but if you learn from your feedback, you'll get the aim.3 > >right much faster than if you never fire at all!a > >o > N > We are firing.  We are building VMS for IA64.  *You* don't like that answer.  E No, I don't - because you're *NOT* firing, you're AIMING! There is noiE IA64 ammunition, so how can you fire any? Oh, sure, you can build thetA gun, and you crank up the targeter, but how you can shoot with noi bullets?  K > But many customers, buying lots of hardware have told us that they are onl1 > board with it, and will be buying Itanium VMS. s  G ...and how many more have said they'll stand by Alpha 'til it dies? HowrG many have said they'll go non-HP rather than bank on the undeliverable?g   > Will every techno weenieL > like you and I be happy with the IA64 ISA?  No.  But I am pretty confidentK > that IA64 will be able to sell the same price/performance/capability thateK > Alpha does - ignoring the flame-fest of how good Alpha "could have been".t   No doubt about that.  @ I just can't justify eschewing a multi-billion dollar world-wideH industry just so I can bet the farm on something that MAY eventually seeF the light of day and hope I have a *FEW* of my customers left by then, if it ever even happens.  G > >Rumor has it, "Emerald" came very close to actually running, even ifoK > >"iVMS" didn't promise to be quite up to VMS's standard. Even W2K startedeH > >life as DOS V1.0, from a certain perspective. Linus's original kernel2 > >was barely a shadow of the latest-and-greatest. > >o >  > Emerald became NT. r  H It did, huh? Is RMS hiding somehwere in the bowels of NT/W2K? What about? DCL? ...the queueing system? ...ODS? ... the VMS RTL? ... etc.?d  8 > What's your point.  Do I agree that DEC shot itself inL > the foot what we *didn't* replace VMS with the "Next Big Thing" - you bet.  C I would rather find a way to convince you and the other intelligent A folks out there that VMS should have *BEEN* the "Next Big Thing".p  B > If you think that someone is going to make a bet on developing aL > mini/almost/quasi VMS for IA32 and hope it becomes the next Windows -- you > *are* dreaming.   F Why not just finish Emerald and use that to keep VMS afloat until IA64D and/or its successor or competitor finally makes its appareance in a+ mass-producible, ready-for-prime-time form?e  2 That's still a dream, but at least it's realistic!  ; > NT itself would have failed except for the cancer it runsl > called Windows.   - NT *DID* fail! Hence, W2K, which also failed.p  < > The kernel that eventually became NT *might* have been theB > grand unified solution for DEC - if we had done it 15 years ago.  > Hind sight is always 20/20, but what can be learned from that?  C Gievn the attitudes I get from you and others, I doubt anything can ? learned without a major shift in openness of mind and paradigm..  F A very strange but very wise - and ultimately *VERY* rich man (I couldB SHOOT myself!) told me something getting onto 25 years ago: "Got aG hunch? Bet a bunch!" At the time, he was in his 60's and barely had two A pennies to rub together. He died just recently, short of his 90thtD birthday with a net worth of over $750 million. He never cared aboutG ROI, TCO or any of that other biz school black-magic or mumbo-jumbo. HenF just came up with products (mostly intellectual property like trainingF materials and such) and sold them. For some goofy-ass reason, the mostF ridiculous things he came up with were the ones that sold the best, asD the story was told to me. I never did find out his real name. He wasC introduced to me as "Arthur Klein", but I knew that wasn't his real3H name. The fellow who introduced me to him regaled me with the story overG the Thanksgiving weekend. I'll never know who he really was or what hisoF products were. I just know that he mortgaged his home to get his firstF product to market because he believed in it - but no one else did. Who was right in his case?  J > >Linus didn't care where his little 386 UNIX-like kernel was headed whenB > >he first posted it on bulletin boards around Europe. Now it's a, > >multi-billion dollar world-wide industry. > >-; > >Some times, "nonsense", in the end, makes perfect sense!r > >d > K > If it's sooo darn easy - join the little project to write a freeware VMS.-  F Never said it "easy". I just don't (won't) believe it's this towering,, ravening monster that is all but invincible.  M > You'll find it isn't all that easy - but hey, you are brilliant and this is F > weekend work - right.  I'll be *thrilled* when it gets out there and > succeeds.n > C > Linux is succeeding because it is for all intents and purposes anF > unencumbered UNIX. ,  ) Properly, it's a "UNIX-like environment".l  2 > If it wasn't yet-another-UNIX flavor it would beN > nothing.  You want to develop an unencumbered freeware VMS - I'm all for it.  G I'd rather see the "real" thing on ubiquitous hardware at an affordablenD price. As great and wonderful as the VMS Engr. team is, that task is beyond them.  J > >> I think it's keen that Sun is collecting $20 a pop for something that > costF > >> them relatively little to do, and I imagine the $20 doesn't cover
 > support.0 > >> Sounds like a cheap hobbyist program to me. > >uG > >Somehow, I think there's a lesson for VMS there, as well! AffordableeI > >downloadable distro.'s? I'll not address that - search the archives ofrD > >this group - it'll turn up much more than I can say, that much is > >certain!c > >> > G > Sure.  We should charge $20 for old desktop VMS licenses for your oldeM > VAXstations.  Sun brushes off an IA32 UNIX port, and sells 50 cent CD's for'F > $20.  I don't think we have something like that we can offer that is= > equivalent - unless we just start giving VAX licenses away.o  E O.k. Here's a challenge for the VMS Engr. team, and I may e-mail thistH segment separately to Mark and Carl just to make the challenge official:  G Set up a VMS machine, delete the LMF$LICENSE.LDB file, then install thetB usual products (TCP/IP, CSWS, MX, etc.) and do actual, productive,H profitable work on a machine with no license database. In fact, just for% chuckles, delibrately delete LMF.EXE.   E If you succeed, you'll have proven that internet downloads of VMS and6+ layered products are the ultimate bad idea.   3 If you fail, you'll have proven quite the opposite.y  H Hobbyist kits are offered (when available) for $35US. How 'bout offeringD VMS (ODS image including TCP/IP, CSWS, etc.) for $35 and LPs for $10 each (.PCSI kits, ZIPped).  E I grant you, you even approach Sun's 1.4 million count, but I are sayd: the results would more than offset the costs to set it up.  F ...and if you think it would be too costly to set up, let me do it. My' specialty is "good at reasonable cost".l  I > >...and if you're looking for money to fund an IA32 port, well, see thed< > >earlier post! "$28 million" is what you're looking for... > >I > 1 > It won't come close to paying for an IA32 port.   C I beg to differ. It will contribute significantly, even if it falls0 majorly short.   > >Answers:r- > >VMS's share of the IA32 market: $zero($0).iI > >Number of high-CPU count systems in the world: less than 400,000 (lessn% > >than 1% of the total IA32 market).t > >bI > >Sorry - none of those arguments hold water, especially from a businesse > >perspective.m > >9 > ( > You offer no answers that are feasible  
 Yes, I do.  $ >, just wishful thinking.  I wish weM > had tons of people and money sitting around to do lots of things.  But IA32rJ > wouldn't even get into the top 10 of the things I'd like to do with VMS.  E ...which is probably why neither of us heads the VMS team. You're tooaA negative and I'm too positive. Ultimate Success lies somewhere inu between, I should think.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:02:37 GMT2, From: "Dale Hammer" <dalehammer@indy.rr.com>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?: Message-ID: <h5cK9.106874$%p6.10865300@twister.neo.rr.com>   Andrew Harrison wrote: >g@ > Check any of the major public audited benchmarks, TPC-C, TPC-H= > SAP, Oracle apps etc etc. Go back as far as the 8400, thereyA > has never been a case that shows Alpha systems to be performantl > or price competive.y > = > Of course Alpha does give great SPECint and SPECfp but thenk< > as Freddy memorably pointed out the optimisations used for= > SPECint and SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for customerjB > apps. It isn't a view I necessarely endorse but it was memorable? > since they are almost the only benchmarks that did show Alphac* > in a good light and Freddy works for HP. >e< > And since 2 x F15K's are roughly equivalent to 4-6 GS320's9 > we are well up on OpenVMS in terms of throughput with au! > much smaller number of systems.a >r> > One customer I work with has 2 x F15K's clustered, the other > has 4 clustered. >n	 > regardse > Andrew Harrisonn >e   Andrew,t  E You said to review the "major public audited benchmarks, TPC-C, TPC-HoK SAP, Oracle apps etc etc."  So what is the audited TPC-C rating for a F15K?rI or F12K? or 6800? or 4800?....All of the other major vendors provide this  benchmark but not Sun.  J Sun used to be a proponent of the TPC-C ratings but not any more.  Most of theiJ respected analysts (Gartner, Meta, etc) say to be a credible vendor in the enterprise, @ vendors need to post TPC-C ratings to allow customers to do some comparisons.     Regards, Dale Hammern   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:01:22 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>k6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DF95B92.E592DF08@fsi.net>0   "Mark E. Levy" wrote:i > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DF93915.A03B2D6C@fsi.net...i > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:I > > Well, take a look back through this sub-thread and see who is saying,t8 > > "It can't be done" and who is saying, "Just do it!". > L > The fact that people are saying "just do it" doesn't mean it can or shouldM > be done. David, I'm as big a VMS bigot as you (and you know that) but let'su( > be realistic - it's just a pipe dream. > J > The "generic" IA32 hardware is as sturdy as your typical house of cards.N > It's one of the reasons why M$ slop is as unreliable as it is. Do you really+ > want to drag VMS reputation down with it?P > " > > Are there any other questions? > % > Yes, aside from the hyperbole, why?   G Actually, I wrote that, not Fred. These newsreaders hose up the quotingt and attribution somtimes...   @ Anyway, the point of that specific comment was to illustrate theB difference between attitudes. He claims I'm being negative and he,. positive. I see it quite the other way 'round.   As to why, well...  D o IA64 is a dream that is much and long promised, but has yet to be.! o Alpha is a dream that once was. ' o VAX is a dream from once upon a time.-$ o IA32 remains the impossible dream.  H ...which sort of leaves VMS ..., well, I'll leave it up to the reader to finish that sentence.N  G Yes, fans, I do endeavour to be positive. However, sometimes, the glass  *IS* half empty!   -- 1 David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 01:07:02 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?/ Message-ID: <3DF97901.5199D6A9@vl.videotron.ca>e   Bill Todd wrote:L > But today?   If a high-priority IA32 porting effort were started today, itL > could hardly ship before 2005 (given that the IA64 port has been under wayN > for 18 months now and still won't ship too much before then).  In 2005, IA32H > will still be in major desktop use but will be becoming seen as a veryI > low-end platform - definitely not the kind of system one would normally     L This is why I asked how much of the work to "standardize" VMS , enabling theM port to IA64, would be of use when ported to Hammer. I *suspect* that much of-L the work done so far would be reusable if they were to switch next monday to) Hammer.  (eg: restructuring of code etc).c  C > Going after commodity-level desktops with VMS would be tilting atuL > windmills - and don't respond with some platitude about the need to ignore! > the odds and 'just go for it': 4    K If Hammer becomes the one scalable chip from desktop to datacentre, then itpM would be the likely replacement for VAX/Alpha.  Intel has conceeded that IA64t+ won't be a desktop OS due to its high cost.e   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:31:03 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)0( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS< Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212121131.ee664b6@posting.google.com>  = Sorry Nic, I think you didn't get your coffee before writing.g  4 Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message: > Jason O'Donnell wrote: > H > > We are considering porting an application environment from a Solaris% > > platform to our OpenVMS platform.o > > = > > Has anybody done a something of this nature and have somew2 > > tips/warnings/suggestions they care to impart? > J > Firstly, how well do you know OpenVMS? I know lots of people will screamH > at me for saying this, but ask yourself the question WHY are you doingI > it, what do you expect to get from OpenVMS that you're not getting from 
 > Solaris?  D Nic, if you reread my first sentence you would note the word "our". B This indicates that we have OpenVMS and have familiarity with it. 6 Thus, we have already established some thought of WHY.    H > I would recommend bringing in a VMS experienced person, consultant  orI > contractor to help with some of the familiarization and initial work. AiH > few hundred pounds of paper manuals does not substitute for experienceF > which could save you time and effort, there are a number here easily > qualified to help you.  9 Again if we have an onsite development staff, we would belD knowledgeable on OVMS as we have the platform already.  If we don't,+ of course we would get OVMS expertise, DUH!e   > H > And just contrary to what some folks have been saying in this list, my9 > experiences with 7.3-1 have been pleasant and painless.n   My experience as well...   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:33:00 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)o( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212121133.45f4cb31@posting.google.com>r  v koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<u63RFxSTWOrb@eisner.encompasserve.org>...o > In article <9059bf6b.0212100832.7277674c@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:  > > All, > > H > > We are considering porting an application environment from a Solaris% > > platform to our OpenVMS platform._ > > = > > Has anybody done a something of this nature and have some62 > > tips/warnings/suggestions they care to impart? >  >  >    Yes, sure.a > A >    1)  If you can, get COE which makes VMS more compatable withm3 >       Solaris.  This could save you lots of work.a > D >    2)  Watch out for select().  Without COE select() only supportsI >       sockets.  There are other ways of accomplishing the same thing in  >       VMS. > B >    3) Watch out for system(), where the argument is a UNIX shellH >       command.  There is probably a VMS routine you can call to do theK >       same thing as the command.  You could also just replace the commandlJ >       string with the VMS DCL command, but process creation in VMS tendsG >       to be slower than UNIX so review this if you have a performancet >       problem. > H >    4)  There are lots of white papers on www.openvms.compaq.com.  Some1 >       of them may cover issues you'll run into.l  E Perfect Bob, this is exactly the kind of response I was looking for.  F Can you give me URLs to some specific papers with similar information?   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:37:07 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell):( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212121137.13f35a46@posting.google.com>g  X VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote in message news:<00A18488.AB9BF4CB@SendSpamHere.ORG>...s > In article <u63RFxSTWOrb@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > >{...snip...} E > >   2)  Watch out for select().  Without COE select() only supportsoJ > >      sockets.  There are other ways of accomplishing the same thing in
 > >      VMS.o > H > Directly trying to port the select() to VMS is stupid.  VMS can handle6 > the uses for select() in a much more elegant manner. > H > Remove the unixisms when doing your port and you'll be much better off! > when you've completed the port.t  C While I completely agree with your statements, I think there is one'> fact you miss.  In business, time and money shift reality.  MyA expectation going in is that we will do a first level port to getoC everything running, then re-architect to fit OpenVMS where it makeso the most sense at our leisure.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:40:56 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)g( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212121140.57ecbcaa@posting.google.com>1  E Thanks Hoff!  Helpful as always!  And, I am thankful I didn't get the3 "It's all in the FAQs."   ;)   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 11:45:26 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) ( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212121145.2b8dbc24@posting.google.com>d  2 Paddy O'Brien <paddy.o'brien@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:  I > If you're the same hrblock that I know here, you're my tax accountants .
 > forever :-)> >  > Regards, Paddy   It depends.  ;)t  E I am sure we are the same.  But, VMS is only used for U.S. returns toa the best of my knowledge.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:19:56 +0000d- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>t( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <uvgvnas0pc7076@corp.supernews.com>a   Z wrote:   > Jim Agnew  wrote:)H > : You also want to use VMS time routines, and avoid the 2037 unix timeB > : overflow...  that way, your app should live forever (almost).. > 
 > No need. > ! > Compaq C V6.5-001-48BCD on VMS:e >o1 > t1: 00000000, ctime(): Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 1 > t2: 7FFFFFFF, ctime(): Mon Jan 18 22:14:07 2038 1 > t3: 80000000, ctime(): Mon Jan 18 22:14:08 2038w1 > t4: FFFFFFFF, ctime(): Sun Feb  7 01:28:15 2106e    @ Evidently there *is* a need!  Looks to me like the time overflow4 has just been postponed by a "few" years until 2106.  % Tut, tut, such poor forward thinking!S Go to the back of the class :-)   	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:58:19 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3DF887EB.648C5E31@127.0.0.1>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:n > U > In article <uvg1td1kdmlmea@corp.supernews.com>, Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:e  B > >I could not agree LESS.  You NEVER want to tie to an o/s unlessC > >you HAVE TO.  VMSize the app and you make moving it off VMS eveng
 > >harder. > " > They're moving onto VMS not off. > G > If the app was written in a fashion that isolate certain platform de-4E > pendant issues, the port would be far simpler.  The problem is thatW> > the unix in the world seem to thing that everything is unix. > : > >Only do it if you really need the features/performance. > F > I've seen this before...  I've heard users dissing a VMS environmentE > because the app they're using is so poorly ported it runs like shiteG > on VMS.  It's not the VMS environment that they should be dissing but # > you can't educate them otherwise.0  % (Hope I've got the attribution right)    Hear hear!!   G Some of these so called multi platform applications that are not on VMSpG - we can live without them. Why? Because the application, because it isrG coded to the lowest common denominator (some UNIX or other) cannot takerD advantage of what VMS can offer. If you have a "silver service", youH don't go to the nearest fast food bar and dish it up on that, you employ@ (etc.) a chef to create a dish to be proud of appropriate to the environment.  E VMS can give you 100%, there's some here that do just that, NSK's not"1 needed, its all in the design and implementation.s  C Compile and go is nice, design and implement is far more rewarding.o -- t? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:57:55 +0100 5 From: "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk> ( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3df895ec$1@news.swissonline.ch>  - "Z" <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> wrote in message.) news:uvg1td1kdmlmea@corp.supernews.com... 6 > Chris Clifford <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk> wrote:I > : The most important thing is to VMSize it to gain maximum benefit. Form > : example: >DH > : - Ensure that the application is distributed between cluster members withJ > : the ability to quickly fail over should a cluster member fail, perhaps byK > : running multiple instances of a process and utilising the lock manager.y >nI > : - Consider using ICC for communication between application processes.t, > : Maximum performance and highly reliable. > A > I could not agree LESS.  You NEVER want to tie to an o/s unlessgB > you HAVE TO.  VMSize the app and you make moving it off VMS even	 > harder.t  H Sorry, I don't agree. If you're going to move the app onto VMS, make theJ most of the features that make VMS superior to other platforms. Obviously,L it depends on what the app does but in many cases it makes absolute sense to; aim for high application availability and high performance.o  J You can make things easier if you think there's a possibility that the appJ will be moved off VMS at a later date. Don't embed system services and VMSL RTL calls within your main functions, instead separate the platform-specificI stuff in their own functions so that if you port to another O/S, you justeG need to rewrite those smaller functions. Standard programming practice.u   - Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:07:20 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>pH Subject: Re: Presentations of "HP Wonderland Event" (Switzerland) online' Message-ID: <3DF90898.C59477A9@aaa.com>t  4 Well, "h" is silent as the first letter in France...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.        Roland Barmettler wrote: >  > Hi >  > Didier Morandi wrote:m > ' > > because we have Unger to get it :-)w > >  > > Michael Unger a crit:M > > > PS: I really dont't know why it's up to me to post this information ...  > >e. > > PS: Unger is the German word for "hungry". >  > Not quite. It's "hunger" > ;-)              ^ >  > Cheers, Roland   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2002 19:48:16 GMT+ From: ka2doug@cs.common.nom (Doug Phillips):& Subject: Re: Pricing for TCPIP on DS10= Message-ID: <20021212144816.16030.00000004@mb-cs.news.cs.com>h   Kevin Handy asks:i >o, >How much does a TCPIP for VMS7.1 on a DS10? >l   For US prices look here:  2 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/swcat/us/tcp-ip.html  6 I have had this same problem more times than I care to6 remember. For some reason many people think that every6  system comes with this license. The new systems MIGHT8 come with the new EIP license if that's the way whomever; sells it to you packages it. But don't get me started aboutl	 licenses.s    -Doug   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:30:31 +0100r" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>& Subject: Re: Pricing for TCPIP on DS106 Message-ID: <atav5q$12jv0h$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  H Please chek what kind of network license came initially with the system.I More often than not a NET-SUP kind of license is already present and that-4 does cover TCPIP. An old UCX license will also work.   Hans. "Kevin Handy" <kth@srv.net> schreef in bericht  news:3DF7D7A5.7070502@srv.net...- > How much does a TCPIP for VMS7.1 on a DS10?o >l6 > I'm looking for at least an estimate so I can give a6 > ballpark figure to a client, bur DEC/COMPAQ/HP seems2 > to want to hide all the prices, making this very
 > hard to do.U >u5 > I've tried in the past to get a price, but the onlyH4 > price I ever got quoted was around $5000 per user,5 > which seemed high/wrong to me. Does anyone know the)$ > real price/availability of TCPIP?? >h1 > Also, where can you buy the license?  I've onlyr2 > been able to find 3rd/4th party people who don't. > even seem to understand what I'm asking for. >h7 > And no, the machine did not come with a TCPIP licenseo5 > for some reason.  They just have a VMS, a USER, ando- > a DECNET license, no TCPIP/UCX/... license.  >r >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:34:44 -0500u' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>i& Subject: RE: Pricing for TCPIP on DS10T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C13@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Re: TCPware ..  G Yep - we are using TCPware V5.6 on 3 node VMS V7.3-1 ES45 (dual 1.25Ghz C cpu's each) SAN cluster (2Gb/s equipment) at Customer site with thehD paired network interface feature and it is way cool ..dual redundantD links i.e. virtual IP with 2 physical links - each going to separateH Cisco 4006 switches for high availability TCPIP interfaces at system NIC level.  4 [btw - I also use TCPware on my home lab systems ..]  G Also fwiw - using Rdb V7.1.0.5 (this latest version optimized for Alphan' EV56 and higher) ... lots of fun stuff.h   :-).   Regardsn  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicest Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)t       -----Original Message-----= From: Chris Clifford [mailto:chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk]=20a  Sent: December 12, 2002 10:46 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: Re: Pricing for TCPIP on DS10    2 "Dan O'Reilly" <dano@process.com> wrote in message< news:5.1.0.14.2.20021212070424.017039b0@raptor.psccos.com...A > Of course, you can always check the pricing for MultiNet and=20e > TCPware...* HP's software isn't the only game in town!  ; Absolutely and I apologise for not mentioning alternatives.    - Chriso   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:53:39 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>X Subject: Re: Request for Discussion, make comp.os.vms a moderated newsgroup - No thanks!, Message-ID: <3DF886D3.5A9A710A@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Well,s  C I've been away for about a week and have just finished with all thesG responses in this discussion.  Last time I checked, Usenet voting rules]E require that there be 100 more yea votes cast than nay in order for asH newsgroup proposal to pass.  I may be a bit off on the math but it seemsG to me that, based on the comments given, any vote taken would fall justuH a tad short of that requirement.  Accordingly, I will not be taking this any further.  E Thanks for all the replies given, both public and private (as well asa the civility of them).  
 Mark Berrymant Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:55:27 -0500r5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>y% Subject: Re: Silly HP zx6000 question . Message-ID: <3df8dc44$1_1@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  I Bzzzt.  You can buy a zx2000 Itanium2 single processor workstation today.f! It's just as low-end as a XP1000.     D Shane Smith wrote in message <01C2A12E.2ADB2E10@sulfer.icius.com>... >>The Infamous Hoff Wrote:= >>In article <at5vbh0e8k@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy"l ><healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>n	 >>writes:kK >>:I'll admit it's a silly question, but is OpenVMS going to be able to run  on* >>:the zx6000 once it's ported to Itanium? >>J >>  The bootstrap efforts will involve various systems -- systems that mayE >>  or may not be of particular interest as OpenVMS ships on Itanium.a >[snippage]t >oA >Ah crap! Sorry if I'm late to the party with this, but this just G >triggered a realisation. The port to Itanium is going to take away one I >of VMS's strengths; the coverage from desktop to server to supermachine.aH >If Itanium isn't going to try to be a desktop, we just lost the low end
 >for good. >tE >One more reason to want an AMD port: Hammertime! (Doo do de do, woooe >wooo) >t >Shane >iI >Apologies for the long mailsig quote, but it was too funny not to share:o >'E >"George's Song"  (Sung to the tune: "If You're Happy And You Know Itt >Clap Your Hands") > $ >If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.* >If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq. >If the terrorists are Saudi" >And the bank takes back your Audi >And the TV shows are bawdy, >Bomb Iraq.g >g. >If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.. >And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.! >If the smoking gun ain't smokin' % >We don't care, and we're not jokin'.a# >That Saddam will soon be croakin',d >Bomb Iraq.s >t& >Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq./ >From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.M! >So to hell with the inspections; $ >Let's look tough for the elections,% >Close your mind and take directions,D >Bomb Iraq.  > . >While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.0 >Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.$ >Now the seeds of change are sowing, >as the ozone hole is growing, >and our ignorance is showing, >Bomb Iraq.a > ' >Revenge for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq,t+ >From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq. % >Saying "no" would look like treason.o  >It's the Saddam hunting season. >Even if we have no reason,g >Bomb Iraq.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:00:43 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>t% Subject: Re: Silly HP zx6000 questionoB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021212125954.00b94908@raptor.psccos.com>  F I've been told straight out that the rx2600 is the only system VMS 8.?H will run on at first and for several months.  Has that changed (was told that just about 2 weeks ago).t  . At 11:55 AM 12/12/2002, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J >Bzzzt.  You can buy a zx2000 Itanium2 single processor workstation today." >It's just as low-end as a XP1000. >a >lE >Shane Smith wrote in message <01C2A12E.2ADB2E10@sulfer.icius.com>...n > >>The Infamous Hoff Wrote:? > >>In article <at5vbh0e8k@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy"  > ><healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>M > >>writes:lM > >>:I'll admit it's a silly question, but is OpenVMS going to be able to run  >ons, > >>:the zx6000 once it's ported to Itanium? > >>L > >>  The bootstrap efforts will involve various systems -- systems that mayG > >>  or may not be of particular interest as OpenVMS ships on Itanium.m
 > >[snippage]  > >eC > >Ah crap! Sorry if I'm late to the party with this, but this justnI > >triggered a realisation. The port to Itanium is going to take away onesK > >of VMS's strengths; the coverage from desktop to server to supermachine.oJ > >If Itanium isn't going to try to be a desktop, we just lost the low end > >for good. > >sG > >One more reason to want an AMD port: Hammertime! (Doo do de do, wooo  > >wooo) > >h > >Shane > >sK > >Apologies for the long mailsig quote, but it was too funny not to share:d > >UG > >"George's Song"  (Sung to the tune: "If You're Happy And You Know Itl > >Clap Your Hands") > >a& > >If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq., > >If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq. > >If the terrorists are Saudi$ > >And the bank takes back your Audi > >And the TV shows are bawdy,
 > >Bomb Iraq.  > >f0 > >If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.0 > >And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.# > >If the smoking gun ain't smokin's' > >We don't care, and we're not jokin'. % > >That Saddam will soon be croakin', 
 > >Bomb Iraq.  > >t( > >Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.1 > >From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.d# > >So to hell with the inspections;f& > >Let's look tough for the elections,' > >Close your mind and take directions, 
 > >Bomb Iraq.t > > 0 > >While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.2 > >Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.& > >Now the seeds of change are sowing,  > >as the ozone hole is growing,  > >and our ignorance is showing,
 > >Bomb Iraq.  > >l) > >Revenge for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq,d- > >From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq..' > >Saying "no" would look like treason.r" > >It's the Saddam hunting season. > >Even if we have no reason,i
 > >Bomb Iraq.e   ------J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+J | Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |J | Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |J | Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |J | http://www.process.com        |                                        |J +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:06:33 -0800f$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>% Subject: RE: Silly HP zx6000 questionA0 Message-ID: <01C2A1D6.EA34FE50@sulfer.icius.com>  H Bzzzt yourself. The XP1000 is too expensive to be considered low end, inF my book. Unless you'd like to sell me yours for under $1000. /That/ isD the kind of low end I'm talking about, and people on this group have  been asking for for a long time.   Shanem   -----Original Message-----: From: Fred Kleinsorge [mailto:kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com]* Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 10:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% Subject: Re: Silly HP zx6000 questionn    B Bzzzt.  You can buy a zx2000 Itanium2 single processor workstation today.! It's just as low-end as a XP1000.i    D Shane Smith wrote in message <01C2A12E.2ADB2E10@sulfer.icius.com>... >>The Infamous Hoff Wrote:= >>In article <at5vbh0e8k@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy"i ><healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>i	 >>writes:cK >>:I'll admit it's a silly question, but is OpenVMS going to be able to runn on* >>:the zx6000 once it's ported to Itanium? >>J >>  The bootstrap efforts will involve various systems -- systems that mayE >>  or may not be of particular interest as OpenVMS ships on Itanium.  >[snippage]h > A >Ah crap! Sorry if I'm late to the party with this, but this justuG >triggered a realisation. The port to Itanium is going to take away onesI >of VMS's strengths; the coverage from desktop to server to supermachine.rH >If Itanium isn't going to try to be a desktop, we just lost the low end
 >for good. >iE >One more reason to want an AMD port: Hammertime! (Doo do de do, wooos >wooo) >I >Shane >nI >Apologies for the long mailsig quote, but it was too funny not to share:h >hE >"George's Song"  (Sung to the tune: "If You're Happy And You Know Ite >Clap Your Hands") >i$ >If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.* >If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq. >If the terrorists are Saudi" >And the bank takes back your Audi >And the TV shows are bawdy, >Bomb Iraq.  >e. >If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.. >And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.! >If the smoking gun ain't smokin't% >We don't care, and we're not jokin'.e# >That Saddam will soon be croakin',  >Bomb Iraq.b >g& >Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq./ >From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.m! >So to hell with the inspections;T$ >Let's look tough for the elections,% >Close your mind and take directions,  >Bomb Iraq.c >(. >While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.0 >Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.$ >Now the seeds of change are sowing, >as the ozone hole is growing, >and our ignorance is showing, >Bomb Iraq.  >e' >Revenge for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq,n+ >From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq.t% >Saying "no" would look like treason.w  >It's the Saddam hunting season. >Even if we have no reason,n >Bomb Iraq.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:14:25 -0500n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> % Subject: Re: Silly HP zx6000 questionu. Message-ID: <3df8eec5$1_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  D Shane Smith wrote in message <01C2A1D6.EA34FE50@sulfer.icius.com>...I >Bzzzt yourself. The XP1000 is too expensive to be considered low end, in G >my book. Unless you'd like to sell me yours for under $1000. /That/ iseE >the kind of low end I'm talking about, and people on this group havey! >been asking for for a long time.  >r  H IPF may or may not help fix the lack of systems that can compete with anG IA32 system - time will tell.  However, it will have as wide a range as ) Alpha.  From desktop to enterprise class.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:03:33 -0500e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n% Subject: Re: Silly HP zx6000 questionp, Message-ID: <3df8ec3a_3@hpb10302.boi.hp.com>  L The rx2600 is the initial platform.  It doesn't mean it's the last platform.K My response was to the statement "The port to Itanium is going to take awayl> one of VMS's strengths; the coverage from desktop to server toL supermachine."  This is untrue, and I pointed out that Itanium 2 runs on theK desktop today, and will appear in Enterprise class systems soon.  VMS plans2I to run on the spectrum, just as it does today.  That is, it will span theI, range as *least* as wide as Alpha over time.   _Fred      Dan O'Reilly wrote in message.9 <5.1.0.14.2.20021212125954.00b94908@raptor.psccos.com>... G >I've been told straight out that the rx2600 is the only system VMS 8.?sI >will run on at first and for several months.  Has that changed (was tolds >that just about 2 weeks ago). >>/ >At 11:55 AM 12/12/2002, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:oK >>Bzzzt.  You can buy a zx2000 Itanium2 single processor workstation today.r# >>It's just as low-end as a XP1000.. >> >>F >>Shane Smith wrote in message <01C2A12E.2ADB2E10@sulfer.icius.com>... >> >>The Infamous Hoff Wrote:X@ >> >>In article <at5vbh0e8k@enews2.newsguy.com>, "Zane H. Healy"  >> ><healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> >> >>writes:J >> >>:I'll admit it's a silly question, but is OpenVMS going to be able to rune >>on- >> >>:the zx6000 once it's ported to Itanium?r >> >>(I >> >>  The bootstrap efforts will involve various systems -- systems thatc maywH >> >>  or may not be of particular interest as OpenVMS ships on Itanium. >> >[snippage] >> >D >> >Ah crap! Sorry if I'm late to the party with this, but this justJ >> >triggered a realisation. The port to Itanium is going to take away oneL >> >of VMS's strengths; the coverage from desktop to server to supermachine.K >> >If Itanium isn't going to try to be a desktop, we just lost the low endf
 >> >for good.P >> >H >> >One more reason to want an AMD port: Hammertime! (Doo do de do, wooo	 >> >wooo)d >> >	 >> >Shanel >> >L >> >Apologies for the long mailsig quote, but it was too funny not to share: >> >H >> >"George's Song"  (Sung to the tune: "If You're Happy And You Know It >> >Clap Your Hands")n >> >' >> >If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.d- >> >If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq.  >> >If the terrorists are Saudin% >> >And the bank takes back your Audit >> >And the TV shows are bawdy,n >> >Bomb Iraq. >> >1 >> >If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq. 1 >> >And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.N$ >> >If the smoking gun ain't smokin'( >> >We don't care, and we're not jokin'.& >> >That Saddam will soon be croakin', >> >Bomb Iraq. >> >) >> >Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.s2 >> >From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.$ >> >So to hell with the inspections;' >> >Let's look tough for the elections, ( >> >Close your mind and take directions, >> >Bomb Iraq. >> >1 >> >While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq. 3 >> >Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq. ' >> >Now the seeds of change are sowing,t! >> >as the ozone hole is growing,t! >> >and our ignorance is showing,s >> >Bomb Iraq. >> >* >> >Revenge for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq,. >> >From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq.( >> >Saying "no" would look like treason.# >> >It's the Saddam hunting season.- >> >Even if we have no reason, >> >Bomb Iraq. >2 >------ K >+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ K >| Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |nK >| Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |iK >| Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |hK >| http://www.process.com        |                                        |mK >+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+n >P   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:38:50 +0100r" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>4 Subject: Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today.6 Message-ID: <atas50$12pab8$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  8 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> schreef in bericht# news:KMJicFh2K+t4@elias.decus.ch... > > Totally off topic here. But it is for the record in case the > police arrive. > F > Coming out of a roundabout on my way home, there's a big slow truck.C > The car in front of me shows no intent of passing the truck, so Ir > pull out and accelerate. >a9 > Then the car in front of me, when I am half way past iti< >  decides that it's OK to put the indicator on and just go,  > without looking in the mirror. >a: > OK, I just blasted my way though, and did it IMO safely,: > but twat in the car that I had overtaken went absolutely > crazy. > G > Then the idiot really tried to act like a terrorist. Zooming past and D > trying to make me stop on an unlit country road, trying to reverse@ > into me at high speed (fortunately I found reverse faster than  > he did). The man was a psycho. >sC > Finally I found a petrol station, with witnneses and video there, 1 > so I could stop and talk, stop the harrassment.dC > Massive shouting match on his part. Very quiet on my part because < > I realised I was dealing with someone definitely unstable. >0? > Sorry folks for something so OT, but please understand that Ip > want this record on google.  >sK Off topic indeed Paul, but quite understandable and I'd have done the same.lE Unfortunately this seems to happen more frequently and this irratinal 	 behaviourdK has apparently reached Switzerland as well (a country not exactly known foro  really *wild* behaviour, right). Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:12:36 +0100 5 From: "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk>n4 Subject: Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today., Message-ID: <3df88b4c$1@news.swissonline.ch>  % Probably works for Sun in Zurich. :-)l    6 "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message# news:KMJicFh2K+t4@elias.decus.ch...e> > Totally off topic here. But it is for the record in case the > police arrive. >dF > Coming out of a roundabout on my way home, there's a big slow truck.C > The car in front of me shows no intent of passing the truck, so In > pull out and accelerate. > 9 > Then the car in front of me, when I am half way past ito< >  decides that it's OK to put the indicator on and just go,  > without looking in the mirror. > : > OK, I just blasted my way though, and did it IMO safely,: > but twat in the car that I had overtaken went absolutely > crazy. >fG > Then the idiot really tried to act like a terrorist. Zooming past andtD > trying to make me stop on an unlit country road, trying to reverse@ > into me at high speed (fortunately I found reverse faster than  > he did). The man was a psycho. > C > Finally I found a petrol station, with witnneses and video there,o1 > so I could stop and talk, stop the harrassment.,C > Massive shouting match on his part. Very quiet on my part becauseo< > I realised I was dealing with someone definitely unstable. > ? > Sorry folks for something so OT, but please understand that It > want this record on google.i >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:07:37 +01000" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>Q Subject: Re: VIP - VMS Information Provider, a powerfull tool for OpenVMS systems56 Message-ID: <atatr7$11k6fs$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   Hoi Core  > nice plug, any special discounts available for old friends :-)   Hans  / "Cor Mom" <cor.mom@momss.nl> schreef in bericht 5 news:774640de.0212120021.4e31c9@posting.google.com...A > Dear OpenVMS user, >pB > Do you sometimes like to stop a number of processes that all areF > running the same image? You can do this with VIP, also cluster wide: >t= > $ VIP SHOW SYSTEM/IMAGE=(*IMAGE_A*,*IMAGE_B*)/ACTION=DELETEw >  > G > Would you like to receive an alarm message when a process has stopped G > and to restart this process in a batch job? You can do this with VIP:e >e > $ VIP MONITORlL SYSTEM/ITEM=DELETED/ALARM=(USER=SUPERVISOR,OPERATOR)/SUBMIT=FILE=RESTART.COM >oH > When you enter the command above, a reply message will be displayed onB > the screen of user SUPERVISOR and on the operator console when aC > process has stopped. Also a batch job will be submitted with fileuD > RESTART.COM and parameter P1 that contains the name of the stopped
 > process. >i >gC > Would you like to receive an alarm message when the disk space isiF > getting low and purge this disk in a batch job? You can do this with > VIP: >r > $ VIP MONITORaI DISK/ITEM=FREE=PERC=10/ALARM=(USER=SYSTEM,OPERATOR)/SUBMIT=FILE=PURGE.COMo >tH > When you enter the command above, a reply message will be displayed onE > the screen of user SYSTEM and on the operator console when the free?? > disk space is getting below the 10%. Also a batch job will bepG > submitted with file PURGE.COM and parameter P1 that contains the nameY > of the disk. >t >hD > Would you like to know all locks on a certain resource? You can do > this with VIP: >o > $ VIP SHOW LOCK/FULL MY$LOCK >d >t@ > Would you like to know all open files of a certain user on all, > available disks? You can do this with VIP: >l+ > $ VIP SHOW OPEN_FILES/USER=JONES/DEVICE=*o >n >rE > VIP is a cluster-wide monitor and display utility for OpenVMS AlphapA > and OpenVMS VAX for processes, quota, working sets, i/o, disks,eD > pagefaults, eventflags, cpu, logins, open files, locks and clusterG > members. You can define alarm conditions or levels which may generateeD > a message on a terminal screen, on the operator console or send anE > e-mail (VMS mail or Internet mail using SMTP) when a condition or aoH > level has been reached. You also can perform actions on processes like5 > DELETE PROCESS, SUSPEND PROCESS, RESUME PROCESS andy, > INCREMENT/DECREMENT/SET PRIORITY. PossibleE > VIP comands are MONITOR SYSTEM, MONITOR QUOTA, MONITOR WORKING_SET,-G > MONITOR DISK, MONITOR LOGIN, MONITOR PROCESS (CPU, QUOTA, EVENT_FLAG,s@ > I/O, PAGEFAULT), SHOW SYSTEM, SHOW LOCK, SHOW CLUSTER and SHOWG > OPEN_FILES. All command have a wide range of qualifiers to select thenG > required information for monitoring or display. VIP will continuously@$ > be updated with new functionality. >eH > Go to http://www.momss.nl/vip for additional information and examples.B > VIP can be downloaded en used free for 30 days with the includedB > evaluation license. If you like to continue using VIP after that. > period, you will have to purchase a license. >s> > You may ask any question. You will always receive an answer. >n > With kind regards, >  > Mom Software Services  >  > E-mail:   info@momss.nlw > Internet: http://www.momss.nlt > Fax:      +31 481 377098   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 00:21:51 -0800  From: cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom)M Subject: VIP - VMS Information Provider, a powerfull tool for OpenVMS systems ; Message-ID: <774640de.0212120021.4e31c9@posting.google.com>e   Dear OpenVMS user,  @ Do you sometimes like to stop a number of processes that all areD running the same image? You can do this with VIP, also cluster wide:  ; $ VIP SHOW SYSTEM/IMAGE=(*IMAGE_A*,*IMAGE_B*)/ACTION=DELETEs    E Would you like to receive an alarm message when a process has stoppeduE and to restart this process in a batch job? You can do this with VIP:w  Z $ VIP MONITOR SYSTEM/ITEM=DELETED/ALARM=(USER=SUPERVISOR,OPERATOR)/SUBMIT=FILE=RESTART.COM  F When you enter the command above, a reply message will be displayed on@ the screen of user SUPERVISOR and on the operator console when aA process has stopped. Also a batch job will be submitted with file3B RESTART.COM and parameter P1 that contains the name of the stopped process.    A Would you like to receive an alarm message when the disk space isnD getting low and purge this disk in a batch job? You can do this with VIP:  W $ VIP MONITOR DISK/ITEM=FREE=PERC=10/ALARM=(USER=SYSTEM,OPERATOR)/SUBMIT=FILE=PURGE.COMe  F When you enter the command above, a reply message will be displayed onC the screen of user SYSTEM and on the operator console when the freet= disk space is getting below the 10%. Also a batch job will beeE submitted with file PURGE.COM and parameter P1 that contains the namet of the disk.    B Would you like to know all locks on a certain resource? You can do this with VIP:   $ VIP SHOW LOCK/FULL MY$LOCK    > Would you like to know all open files of a certain user on all* available disks? You can do this with VIP:  ) $ VIP SHOW OPEN_FILES/USER=JONES/DEVICE=*s    C VIP is a cluster-wide monitor and display utility for OpenVMS Alphai? and OpenVMS VAX for processes, quota, working sets, i/o, disks, B pagefaults, eventflags, cpu, logins, open files, locks and clusterE members. You can define alarm conditions or levels which may generate4B a message on a terminal screen, on the operator console or send anC e-mail (VMS mail or Internet mail using SMTP) when a condition or aeF level has been reached. You also can perform actions on processes like3 DELETE PROCESS, SUSPEND PROCESS, RESUME PROCESS and * INCREMENT/DECREMENT/SET PRIORITY. PossibleC VIP comands are MONITOR SYSTEM, MONITOR QUOTA, MONITOR WORKING_SET,DE MONITOR DISK, MONITOR LOGIN, MONITOR PROCESS (CPU, QUOTA, EVENT_FLAG,6> I/O, PAGEFAULT), SHOW SYSTEM, SHOW LOCK, SHOW CLUSTER and SHOWE OPEN_FILES. All command have a wide range of qualifiers to select the E required information for monitoring or display. VIP will continuouslyP" be updated with new functionality.  F Go to http://www.momss.nl/vip for additional information and examples.@ VIP can be downloaded en used free for 30 days with the included@ evaluation license. If you like to continue using VIP after that, period, you will have to purchase a license.  < You may ask any question. You will always receive an answer.   With kind regards,   Mom Software Serviceso   E-mail:   info@momss.nl  Internet: http://www.momss.nlv Fax:      +31 481 377098   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:05:24 +0100-" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IP06 Message-ID: <atatn5$12hcon$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  3 "VMSuser" <the41car@comcast.net> schreef in bericht 7 news:3df82b42.202681750@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com...vB > First of all, I am NOT an expert with VMS, so if I sound stupid, > please be tolerant.a >eE > I'm running VMS 7.2 and DIGITAL TCP/IP Services 5.0 on a VAXstationhA > 4000 VLC, and it works perfectly.  However, I have a lot of old-C > FORTRAN programs that were written under VMS 5.5 and many of themmB > won't run under 7.2, and I don't have all of the source files toF > modify the code.  I can still boot to 5.5 so I can run the EXEs, butC > to my knowledge there aren't any versions of TCP/IP that will run.6 > under 5.5.  I need TCP/IP for remote logins and FTP. >t > Any ideas on what I can do?   C Install the CMU IP stack on the 5.5 system I've got it running on an  VAXstation 3100 under VMS 5.5-1.H The problem is that i simply cannot remember where I got it, most likely from the freeware CD.aC Google returned this URL: www.agh.cc.kcl.ac.uk/files/vms/cmu-tcpip/h   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 14:32:50 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IPs3 Message-ID: <$+xbNcrgeqY7@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  b In article <3DF8BB6E.B469AE22@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Nic Clews wrote:2 >> > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHSEC, no such (global) sectionI >> implicit on the directory location. The full listing will tell you how I >> the images are installed, you need to check the HELP inside INSTALL top >> see how to get the same.  > J > If an image is not installed, would VMS really issue the "global section > missing" message ?  E    In my experience, no.  Calls to $MAPGLSC can return SS$_NOSUCHSEC,sD    but attempts to start images either run anyhow, or if the sectionH    must be writeable and shareable you get something like SS$_NOTINSTALLG    (%SYSTEM-F-NOTINSTALL, writable shareable images must be installed).o  C    Is it possible the startup sequence is out of order, and that ann8    image which does a $CRMPSC needs to be started first?    r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 06:47:18 GMTS$ From: the41car@comcast.net (VMSuser) Subject: VMS & TCP/IP-= Message-ID: <3df82b42.202681750@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>i  @ First of all, I am NOT an expert with VMS, so if I sound stupid, please be tolerant.-  C I'm running VMS 7.2 and DIGITAL TCP/IP Services 5.0 on a VAXstationo? 4000 VLC, and it works perfectly.  However, I have a lot of oldiA FORTRAN programs that were written under VMS 5.5 and many of themr@ won't run under 7.2, and I don't have all of the source files toD modify the code.  I can still boot to 5.5 so I can run the EXEs, butA to my knowledge there aren't any versions of TCP/IP that will runl4 under 5.5.  I need TCP/IP for remote logins and FTP.   Any ideas on what I can do?s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 02:02:56 -0500e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IP / Message-ID: <3DF83497.703930EE@vl.videotron.ca>t   VMSuser wrote:C > FORTRAN programs that were written under VMS 5.5 and many of them  > won't run under 7.2,  C What are the symptoms /messages issued when you try to run on 7.2 ?h    C > to my knowledge there aren't any versions of TCP/IP that will runn6 > under 5.5.  I need TCP/IP for remote logins and FTP.  M For VAX, you could always look at the CMU-IP package which si available at no L cost and does run on VAX 5.5-2. Although it does have an FTP server, you areS better off picking up the Madgoat FTP software. (THE CMU IP stack is a bit quirky).n  H Is this the sole machine ? You could run the full TCPIP stuff on anotherJ machine, and just use decnet to access your VMS 5.5 machine. (set host for1 remote logins, and "copy" for a much better FTP.)c  U I think that solving the reason why your software won't run on 7.2 might be a method.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:04:04 GMT:$ From: the41car@comcast.net (VMSuser) Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IP = Message-ID: <3df83ea5.207645598@news.pa.comcast.giganews.com>   0 Thank you JF and John for responding so quickly.  B I was a bit surprised too that the EXEs didn't run under 7.2.  I'd< rather stay with 7.2 instead of going back to 5.5, if I can.  > The error message I'm getting when I try to run a few of these programs is ...t  - %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHSEC, no such (global) sectionG  1 ... then lists the modules, routines, lines, etc.e  D A friend of mine who was involved with writing the original code wasF able to locate some of the source files and informed me he had to makeE changes in order to get the FORs to compile and link under 7.2.  What2E changes he had to make I can't say because my knowledge of FORTRAN is  rudimentary.  E I'm trying to make this painless for my friend because he has his ownpB job to worry about, and I'm trying to avoid bugging him as much as	 possible.m  5 Also, this is the sole VMS machine on a SOHO network.p  E I'll look into TCP/IP versions that'll run 5.5 if I have to, but as IM said, I'd rather stay with 7.2.s   Thanks again, guys.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:41:02 +0000s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IP0) Message-ID: <3DF883DE.C559118A@127.0.0.1>e   VMSuser wrote: > 2 > Thank you JF and John for responding so quickly. > D > I was a bit surprised too that the EXEs didn't run under 7.2.  I'd> > rather stay with 7.2 instead of going back to 5.5, if I can. > @ > The error message I'm getting when I try to run a few of these > programs is ...  > / > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHSEC, no such (global) sectione > 3 > ... then lists the modules, routines, lines, etc.h  H Ah ha. You need to do a bit of detective work on the 5.5 system. This isF probably the easiest way, the next five lines are VMS commands to type on the 5.5 system:   $ instal:==$install/command & $ define/user sys$output installed.txt	 $ installt INSTALL> list/full INSTALL> exit (or CTRL/Z)t  H You will now have probably quite a large file, but in it you should findD references to files which are part of the application. Note that theB directory specification will use <> rather than [] and the .EXE isF implicit on the directory location. The full listing will tell you howF the images are installed, you need to check the HELP inside INSTALL toC see how to get the same. You would then create a command file whichT6 would be called as part of the system start up (on V7, SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM)  G Alternatively, because there is a simpler and easier way to do it.... !P  C look in SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM (TYPE/PAGE the file) on the V50 system  C You may find a 'call' ($@[location]commandfile.com) which calls theTF start up procedure for this application, which will install the imagesB for you. Much easier. Of course I'm assuming a standard setup. TheH commands may be directly in this file, who knows. You need to copy these7 commands or the command file verbatim to the V7 system.0  H I should warn you there are some changes from V5 to V7, particularly forH privileged or 'fancy' code as the security methodology has been changed,F so if you have problems installing the images on your 7.2 system, comeD back here. Also, it is possible that some system parameters may needH changing for global pages and global sections, not show stoppers, so you- can bring that problem to the clinic as well.m   HTH. -- m? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 08:08:26 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IPf/ Message-ID: <3DF88A4A.2E5013F4@vl.videotron.ca>s   VMSuser wrote:/ > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHSEC, no such (global) sectiont > 3 > ... then lists the modules, routines, lines, etc.r  $ On your 7.2 system, you may wish to:   $HELP/MESSSAGE NOSUCHSEC  I It would seem to me that your program tries to map to some global sectionsC which should have been created either by itself or another process.   I I am curious as to how you know it works on 5.5 but not on 7.2  ? Did youcL upgrade the 5.5 system to 7.2, or did you move what you considered to be theJ complete application from one system to another ? In the later case, it isK likely you would have forgotten to move some pieces (or not started all thei apps/processes needed).e  K If you list the modules and other messages, it *might* give us some idea orn. what sort of global section it is looking for.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:44:50 -0500e! From: VAXVMS <bounce@notmail.com>l6 Subject: VMS Marketing sighting (well, Alpha, anyway.)K Message-ID: <BA52530E3149734A9BAABDBBFA808E4903027BB1@rlghncst964.usps.gov>o  = There's a "promotions" link on the VMS 25th Anniversary site:k  = http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/promotions/compete_tradein.html-   Alpha products and solutions   promotions    B Sun, IBM and SGI owners: trade up to an Alpha system and save big!A =================================================================hA Sun, IBM, and SGI owners, here is a deal too good to pass up. NowrB you can trade up to a more powerful Alpha system from hp and cash B in on great savings! The Alpha system family is now more powerful C than ever, from the new AlphaServer DS25 system to the AlphaServer n GS320 system.   B Whether you have a workgroup system or enterprise server, we have @ a great deal for you. Save up to $40,000 on larger systems! And C soon you will be able to trade up to a next generation AlphaServer v system  ? To qualify, returned systems must be in good working order and nA include the CPU modules in the rack or cabinet, base memory, CPU o= options and the valid, redesignateable operating system base r license.     For more information ====================A For complete details on this offer, including systems eligibility    Contact us online < Contact your hp sales representative or authorized reseller   d   ========================  William W. Webb / DSSC/RLM, USPS OpenVMS Support Services& 4924 Green Road Raleigh, NC 27616-2800: 919.874.3043 <FirstInitialDotLastNameAtEmailDotUSPSDotGov>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:05:17 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> : Subject: Re: VMS Marketing sighting (well, Alpha, anyway.)' Message-ID: <3DF95C7D.82B47A1D@fsi.net>a  
 VAXVMS wrote:i > ? > There's a "promotions" link on the VMS 25th Anniversary site:c > ? > http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/promotions/compete_tradein.htmlI > [snip]  C Now: Short of spam or a junk mail blitz, how do we get that news in  front of the masses?   -- a David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:10:30 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>t1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSl/ Message-ID: <uvhnpa3cjp5445@news.supernews.com>e  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in messagen$ news:00A18595.0BE790F5.3@decus.de...$ > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: >d	 > > [...]q > >FH > > >Basically you fill out the same form you've always filled out.  The hardest I > > >part is finding the PDF of the form on the DSPP web site.  I've sentn you the-9 > > >PDF via e-mail (if anyone else needs it, just yell).  > > 2 > > John sent me the .PDF order form! Many thanks. > >l > > He also sent me a URL: > >D > >1H > http://h21007.www2.hp.com/dspp/tech/tech_TechDocumentDetailPage_IDX/1, > 1701,4414,00.html0 > >t > >lK > > This is the page that I previously found but I do not see a link to theg PDFa > > order form.  >u% > Found at the very top of that page:0 >  > (start of quote) > ' > Developer and Solution Partner PortalnE > The DSPP requires JavaScript for correct operation. You have eitheraH > disabled JavaScript or have a browser that doesn't support JavaScript.F > DSPP recommends use of IE 5.0 or above or Netscape 4.76 or above for > best results.. >a > (end of quote) >l0 > I didn't see any reference to a PDF file, too. >a  = With JavaScript enabled the PDF is at the bottom of the page.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 18:36:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSt3 Message-ID: <zJchxzAmIdjL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <uvidj134h6v298@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:a  E > Why do they have to make a simple web page so freakin' complicated?h  C To quote Mel Brooks (in his role as Governor Petomane) in the great # American Classic "Blazing Saddles":e  9 	"Gentlemen, we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs!"n  B It is in the interest of web "designers" to make things as complexB as possible to justify the need for web "designers".  This has not6 a whole lot to do with actually conveying information.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:00:16 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSr' Message-ID: <3DF93F30.5700008B@fsi.net>a   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > Y > In article <uvidj134h6v298@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:A > G > > Why do they have to make a simple web page so freakin' complicated?k > E > To quote Mel Brooks (in his role as Governor Petomane) in the great % > American Classic "Blazing Saddles":e > B >         "Gentlemen, we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs!" > D > It is in the interest of web "designers" to make things as complexD > as possible to justify the need for web "designers".  This has not8 > a whole lot to do with actually conveying information.   Harumpph! Harumpph! Harumpph!    -- i David J. DachteraN dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2002 20:22 CSTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSh- Message-ID: <12DEC200220221788@gerg.tamu.edu>   e In article <zJchxzAmIdjL@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...aX }In article <uvidj134h6v298@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: } F }> Why do they have to make a simple web page so freakin' complicated? } D }To quote Mel Brooks (in his role as Governor Petomane) in the great$ }American Classic "Blazing Saddles": } : }	"Gentlemen, we have to protect our phoney baloney jobs!" } C }It is in the interest of web "designers" to make things as complexeC }as possible to justify the need for web "designers".  This has noto7 }a whole lot to do with actually conveying information.0  @ Don't forget the distinct possibility of the age old explanation' for how things get this way: stupidity.n   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:20:25 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSm0 Message-ID: <00A18537.6753CFA6@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <3DF7AF64.DBFA762@yahoo.com>, John Johnstone <jj_usenet2@yahoo.com> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> cJ >> It was bad enough when ASAP was subsumed into the CSA.  Now the CSA has, >> been incorporated into HP's DPSS program. >> lJ >> Has any former CSA member successfully logged into the DPSS site?  Have4 >> you figured out how to get/order the OpenVMS SDK? >> e >> --hR >> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> >7 >>   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"o >  >eF >Using Netscape 7.0 on a Mac with "dangerous things enabled" :-) I wasG >able to get to the point of getting an error - "The e-mail address youmE >entered has already been used with another User ID."  I just haven'taI >been able to figure out what user ID that is.  For the userid, I entereduH >the one that I used for the "grand unified CPN & CSA" website login.  IF >haven't had the time to call HP yet to try to resolve the problem.  IG >could put in a different email address to get around the problem but Iw >don't want to do that.e  G I received an email with the username information and then went through F days of hell trying to get the password change feature to work so thatE I could get in.  A Mr. Ho was very helpful and finally he gave up and F simple reset the account with a passwrod that he provided to me.  I am2 not impressed with anything I've seen on the site.    F >We renewed our CSA membership just before this DSPP thing started so,C >other than going through the $600 less deal as Larry mentioned, wesG >didn't have any trouble.  The renewal took a little bit longer than in H >the past but not by too much.  Our PAKs were emailed to us within about& >10 days after we sent in the renewal. >rF >I got two emails, 20-OCT-2002 and 12-NOV-2002, from DSPP about how toA >register with DSPP.  They listed a phone number for registrationt >questions - 800-249-3294.  D Renewal of the CSA->DPSS is not the issue.  I need to renew the SDK.E I do not believe that they are throwing this in as a freebee also.  IrD looked on the DPSS web site and found a link to the OpenVMS SDK.  OnB the page describing the SDK is a how to order section which state @ nothing.  (I'd get the exact verbage but the site is down at the moment.)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COME            e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:57:52 -0500e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSS2/ Message-ID: <3DF968D0.C6B45054@vl.videotron.ca>2   Larry Kilgallen wrote:D > It is in the interest of web "designers" to make things as complexD > as possible to justify the need for web "designers".  This has not8 > a whole lot to do with actually conveying information.  K Are these overly complex web pages the result of weenies wanting to impress I their bosses with all sorts of fancy features that work well on their 25"sL monitor and 2ghz windows with a particular version, or could it be that someJ "graphic artist" is just using some automated web design software that hasN pre-packaged routines to do those fancy tricks instead of using simple HTML to achieve the same ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:00:12 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: VMS still a bastard child under DPSSe/ Message-ID: <3DF9695C.16935EF3@vl.videotron.ca>a  L > > I believe the last item is one of the "recommended" browsers in the mes-/ > > sage displayed when JavaScript is disabled.i    L "view source" is  your best friend in those cases.  That is what I do when IL get to a page that just doesn't want to let me click on something. I look atJ the source, assemble the URL I need and then paste it in the URL field and bypass their fancy page.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Dec 2002 14:09:23 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)K Subject: Why does BACKUP/IMAGE need write access to INDEXF.SYS, BITMAP.SYS?n= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212121409.7b8ab44f@posting.google.com>M  - In the documentation for BACKUP/IMAGE it sayso   { F To use the /IMAGE qualifier, you need write access to the volume indexA file (INDEXF.SYS) and the bit map file (BITMAP.SYS), or the input1; medium must be write-locked. BACKUP opens the index file toWB synchronize with the file system (no update is made). Finally, you7 must have read access to all files on the input medium.> }'  = Just what does it mean to "synchronize with the file system"?o   Thanks.n   JMHO: Alan E. Feldmant Alan E. Feldmani/ post or answer to spamsink2001[AT]yahoo[DOT]comn   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2002 19:59 CSTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)oO Subject: Re: Why does BACKUP/IMAGE need write access to INDEXF.SYS, BITMAP.SYS?h- Message-ID: <12DEC200219593513@gerg.tamu.edu>o  / John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes...>H }On 12 Dec 2002 14:09:23 -0800, spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) }wrote:I } / }>In the documentation for BACKUP/IMAGE it sayss }> }>{ H }>To use the /IMAGE qualifier, you need write access to the volume indexC }>file (INDEXF.SYS) and the bit map file (BITMAP.SYS), or the inputp= }>medium must be write-locked. BACKUP opens the index file to D }>synchronize with the file system (no update is made). Finally, you9 }>must have read access to all files on the input medium.a }>}f }>? }>Just what does it mean to "synchronize with the file system"?  } M }That "the file system" (XQP/RMS etc) is not set up for shared writing ?  I'd H }guess, without checking, that it has a null lock on INDEXF.SYS which itI }converts up when it needs to write.  If so, and BACKUP/IMAGE takes out aNM }write lock for as long as it needs to build its image of the disk structure,.J }then file system updates will be blocked and only disk writes to existingD }allocated data blocks will be allowed.  In other words, no files orA }directories should appear or disappear.  Which is what you want.t }  }  }	John  C That is not the case. It is entirely possible (and not uncommon) to>E run an image backup on an active disk. This does not interfere in anydH way with file or directory creation, extension, or deletion - you can doD any or all of these things while the image backup is running. It mayF be possible that it could set things up to be notified if they happen, but it doesn't seem to.t  F I don't know what they mean by that phrase, but I expect that they areH at the very least flushing the FID cache to disk and probably some other things along those lines.-   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Dec 2002 19:16 CSTi' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)eV Subject: Re: [ANN] LORIA ANNOUNCES RELEASE 1.0 OF SMARTEIFFEL, THE GNU EIFFEL COMPILER- Message-ID: <12DEC200219161038@gerg.tamu.edu>|  ? "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes...o }>SmartEiffel runs on VMS  } E }My VMS system is a VAX.  I'll bet Smart Eiffel _doesn't_ run on VMS.- }-- B }Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com  > I bet it does. Maybe not on the VAX version of it, but that is> not the only variety. If it runs on any version of VMS then it@ runs on VMS (especially if it is the Alpha version since, at the@ moment, that is the only thing VMS runs on that you can actually( buy from the company that makes the OS).   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.687 ************************e, there's a big slow truck.C > The car in front of me shows no intent of passing the truck, so Ir > pull out and accelerate. >a9 > Then the car in front of me, when I am half way past iti< >  decides that it's OK to put the indicator on and just go,  > without looking in the mirro@^Ϊ    A^Ϊ    B^Ϊ    C^Ϊ    D^Ϊ    E^Ϊ    F^Ϊ    G^Ϊ    H^Ϊ    I^Ϊ    J^Ϊ    K^Ϊ    L^Ϊ    M^Ϊ    N^Ϊ    O^Ϊ    P^Ϊ    Q^Ϊ    R^Ϊ    S^Ϊ    T^Ϊ    U^Ϊ    V^Ϊ    W^Ϊ    X^Ϊ    Y^Ϊ    Z^Ϊ    [^Ϊ    \^Ϊ    ]^Ϊ    ^^Ϊ    _^Ϊ    `^Ϊ    a^Ϊ    b^Ϊ    c^Ϊ    d^Ϊ    e^Ϊ    f^Ϊ    g^Ϊ    h^Ϊ    i^Ϊ    j^Ϊ    k^Ϊ    l^Ϊ    m^Ϊ    n^Ϊ    o^Ϊ    p^Ϊ    q^Ϊ    r^Ϊ    s^Ϊ    t^Ϊ    u^Ϊ    v^Ϊ    w^Ϊ    x^Ϊ    y^Ϊ    z^Ϊ    {^Ϊ    |^Ϊ    }^Ϊ    ~^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ    ^Ϊ     _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    	_Ϊ    
_Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    
_Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ     _Ϊ    !_Ϊ    "_Ϊ    #_Ϊ    $_Ϊ    %_Ϊ    &_Ϊ    '_Ϊ    (_Ϊ    )_Ϊ    *_Ϊ    +_Ϊ    ,_Ϊ    -_Ϊ    ._Ϊ    /_Ϊ    0_Ϊ    1_Ϊ    2_Ϊ    3_Ϊ    4_Ϊ    5_Ϊ    6_Ϊ    7_Ϊ    8_Ϊ    9_Ϊ    :_Ϊ    ;_Ϊ    <_Ϊ    =_Ϊ    >_Ϊ    ?_Ϊ    @_Ϊ    A_Ϊ    B_Ϊ    C_Ϊ    D_Ϊ    E_Ϊ    F_Ϊ    G_Ϊ    H_Ϊ    I_Ϊ    J_Ϊ    K_Ϊ    L_Ϊ    M_Ϊ    N_Ϊ    O_Ϊ    P_Ϊ    Q_Ϊ    R_Ϊ    S_Ϊ    T_Ϊ    U_Ϊ    V_Ϊ    W_Ϊ    X_Ϊ    Y_Ϊ    Z_Ϊ    [_Ϊ    \_Ϊ    ]_Ϊ    ^_Ϊ    __Ϊ    `_Ϊ    a_Ϊ    b_Ϊ    c_Ϊ    d_Ϊ    e_Ϊ    f_Ϊ    g_Ϊ    h_Ϊ    i_Ϊ    j_Ϊ    k_Ϊ    l_Ϊ    m_Ϊ    n_Ϊ    o_Ϊ    p_Ϊ    q_Ϊ    r_Ϊ    s_Ϊ    t_Ϊ    u_Ϊ    v_Ϊ    w_Ϊ    x_Ϊ    y_Ϊ    z_Ϊ    {_Ϊ    |_Ϊ    }_Ϊ    ~_Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    _Ϊ    