1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 15 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 691       Contents:% Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller  Re: copy/ftp) Re: DEC C and DEC CXX licenses (on a VAX) % Re: DEC product line taken over by HP & DS10 - problem using widescreen or ???% Re: How do you invalidate a dumpfile. % RE: How do you invalidate a dumpfile.  Re: http_server crashes ! Re: Internals and Data Structures  Re: Login lexical? Re: MAIL redirection Re: MAIL redirectionG Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 G Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 G Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 G Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 G Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 G Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 G Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2 1 Re: misc HW maintenance end of life dates, where?  New PL/I kit Announcement B Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up socketsB Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets- Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? < Re: Question on BACKUP/RECORD to reduce size of incrementals< Re: Question on BACKUP/RECORD to reduce size of incrementals+ Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today. + Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today.   tcp/ip services sys$qio problems$ Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems$ Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems$ Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems Re: VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP Re: VMS & TCP/IP/ Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV 3 Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV < Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:48:24 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller' Message-ID: <3DFC0998.EBA7E5F2@fsi.net>   H I'm wondering if anyone has successfully used DECW$BOOKREADER to produceA .PS output can then convert that to .PDF using Acrobat distiller.   H I'll need to put up a product soon where the doc is Bookreader only, butH the ODL (beta) Bookereader for WhineBloze won't print, and the .PS I getD from Bookreader comes out kind scrambled when read back with AcrobatE Reader - several pages overlayed on one page every five or six pages,  starting with the first.  F I believe I'm using DECwindows/MOTIF V1.2-4 on OpenVMS V7.1-2, AcrobatH Distiller V3.01 on W/95-OSR2 and Acrobat Reader V4. So they shouldn't be- too badly mismatched - they're all kinda old.   H ...or is it maybe the document content that's screwing 'em up, ya think?  E Also, I think I'm seeing a known memory leak in Bookreader, but can't ( find the doc.'s and/or patches just now.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2002 22:35:06 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller3 Message-ID: <ElYQGFS$2+O$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3DFC0998.EBA7E5F2@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: J > I'm wondering if anyone has successfully used DECW$BOOKREADER to produceC > .PS output can then convert that to .PDF using Acrobat distiller.   C This is trivial with the .sdml source files, but I think it is nigh  onto impossible without.  J > I'll need to put up a product soon where the doc is Bookreader only, butJ > the ODL (beta) Bookereader for WhineBloze won't print, and the .PS I getF > from Bookreader comes out kind scrambled when read back with AcrobatG > Reader - several pages overlayed on one page every five or six pages,  > starting with the first.  7 Is there any chance of influencing the product vendor ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 02:43:58 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: copy/ftp 4 Message-ID: <1021214020923.400B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Paddy O'Brien wrote:    >  >  > Chris Clifford wrote: K > > "Karl Rohwedder" <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote in message - > > news:at9ul0$hk82@doiweb4.volkswagen.de...  > >  > >  > >>Paddy O'Brien wrote: > >>K > >>>The ongoing saga of our corporate wanting to dish DECnet (and anything " > >>>remotely concerned with VMS). > >>> I > >>>We have looked at RCP and it appears not to be able to copy with VMS  > >>>attributes -- VMS to VMS. > >  > > D > >>Why don't you use DECnet/OSI over IP, it works very well for us. > >> > >  > > M > > I've got to agree. About two years ago we moved to DECnet Phase V over IP N > > using DNS for name resolution and have had few problems. It performs well,N > > initially looks horrible to configure but is in reality very simple... youJ > > can then use the standard COPY without the /FTP as you've done before. > >  > I > To you and Karl,  we had heard that Phase v could "tunnel" through IP.  H > However, we are rank amateurs in networking (electrical engineers and I > programmers who with readings from Info-VAX are able to cope with much  J > system admin) and a previous attempt at installing Phase V we could not H > get working.  Neither our previous Compaq contractors nor our current I > Fujitsu contractors seem to have experience here.  And we are out on a  K > limb as far as corporate is concerned, i.e. we cannot use any contractor  > > resources for something that Gartner tells them is "legacy". > H > Thanks for all responses from everyone.  My colleague has been trying K > copy/ftp, says it works, but takes aeons.  I think it was Chris who said  H > something in another thread similar to the fact that a 100Mb link via @ > DECnet required a 1Gb link via IP to get the same performance. >  > Regards, Paddy  D Maybe it's time to engage "lie mode".  (Or at least "stealth mode".)C Are your network manglers filtering IP or are they just refusing to D invest in and/or set up DECnet routers?  (Lots of Cisco's can do it,9 but it's an extra-cost option, at least on some of them.)   D If they aren't filtering, just setup DECnet-V, enable "Domain,Local"A for your directory services (obviously ;-) and Robert's your male  paternal or maternal sibling.   ? If they are filtering, tell them you need TCP ports 102 and 399 A enabled for both inbound and outbound connections.  These are for @ an ISO-compatible networking application that needs the iso-tsapB and iso-tsap-c2 well-known ports, as specified in RFC 1006.  Don'tE mention DEC, DECnet, VMS, VAX or Alpha.  As far as they're concerned, % it's just another TCP/IP application.   C If they catch on, I think you can reconfigure DECnet to use another A pair of ports, just by changing the 399's to X and the 102's to Y @ in sys$manager:net$osi_transport_startup.ncl.  You would have to@ do this on all your DECnet-PLUS systems.  I have no idea if this? would work or not, but if the ports are hardwired-in, why would   they define them in a .NCL file?  > (It may be that you only need port 399.  102 might belong to a* previous version of DECnet, I'm not sure.)  B BTW, DECnet-Plus is much easier to set up with current (post V7.1)@ VMS.  I'm not sure if they've just streamlined the procedure, or> have fixed bugs that caused it to misconfigure itself or both.D Don't muck around with DNS[1].  The scheme for importing a DECnet-IVA node database (from Phase-IV's $ mcr ncp define node...) seems to A work much better for setting up the local database (nodes on your ? LAN[3]), and you can just use your corporate TCP/IP DNS[2]/BIND @ nameservers for remote nodes.  You can also setup local synonyms> (equal to old DECnet node names) in your hosts. file or TCP/IP= local hosts database (depending on which TCP/IP stack you are > using), so you can get at things using nice short DECnet-style node names.    [1] DEC's DECNet-Plus DNS C [2] TCP/IP DNS, similar function, totally different beast, same TLA > [3] The LAN is anything you can get to without going through a@ router or filtering switch (i.e. anything that will see a DECnetD Ethernet packet you throw at it.)  If the packets have to go through= a router, or even some switches which won't pass all ethernet B protocol types, then it's not on your LAN by this definition, even if it's only a few feet away.        --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:38:35 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>2 Subject: Re: DEC C and DEC CXX licenses (on a VAX)6 Message-ID: <atg1cf$13bup8$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  < "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schreef in bericht- news:cEzfUUmpFr61@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <atfdfb$13hlcl$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"  <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  > > 7 > > "Ed Vogel" <ed.vogel@compaq.com> schreef in bericht * > > news:3dfa2bbe_2@hpb10302.boi.hp.com... > >>2 > >> "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message5 > >> news:atcu36$12j1d4$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... L > >> | One of my systems has a C license loaded. Does that license cover the > > C++ 8 > >> | (CXX) compiler as well or is that a separate PAK? > >> |J > >>     C and C++ are different products.  You'll need a separate PAK for C++. > >># > > OK, no C++ experiments then :-)  > > > If you were to use Compaq C++ you would find the online help> > and the documentation are much inferior to Compaq C, even in2 > those elements the two languages have in common.   Larry,  I a dutch proverb tells us that "a warned man counts for two" and pardon my  rough translation :-)    Hans% "Een gewaarschuwd man telt voor twee"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:17:23 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> . Subject: Re: DEC product line taken over by HP' Message-ID: <3DFAB0D3.53061D3C@fsi.net>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Didier Morandi wrote:  > > Q > > I learned something very interesting yesterday. I called the COMPAQ Retailers M > > hot line and asked for advisory support on a potential VAX/VMS to Itanium * > > migration in a few years time (or so).
 > > [snip] > 5 > The folks at OepnVMS Management have been notified.    Mark Gorham responded:  % Subject: RE: Digital Products Service % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 06:08:02 -0500  From: "Gorham, Mark" To: "David J Dachtera"6 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2002 11:08:03.0366 (UTC)3                        FILETIME=[E7DE4460:01C2A297] < X-MX-Comment: QUOTED-PRINTABLE message automatically decoded  E thanks, sent to the appropriate European teams.  Will follow up. Mark    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:31:00 GMT $ From: nickerson@mirage.boeing.com ()/ Subject: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ??? ( Message-ID: <H74uno.GBL@news.boeing.com>   hi,   F I have a DS10 6/600 with VX1 card running 7.3-1 with no patches; I getC the DECwindows prompt screen but can not login; behavior is that is C takes the username and then the Xserver restarts & you never see a  H password prompt; this is a "new" machine and has never been successfullyG used with any display much less a widescreen; the monitor I'm trying to G use is a wide Samsung 15" LCD; I have booted up with the cdrom and done E a bit of system setup - set system password, defined additional user, ? defined licenses; I have attempted a conversational to set the  5 WINDOW_SYSTEM to 0; I have yet to try a minimal boot;   5 any suggestions or known problems with this approach;   E I will be trying it with a standard monitor tonight and will know how , that goes by the next time I access usenet;    thanks for any ideas;  --bn (Bart Nickerson)  nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com (206) 662-0183   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:35:15 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>. Subject: Re: How do you invalidate a dumpfile.6 Message-ID: <atg15s$13pdgc$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  ; "Matt" <matt@drumheights.removethis.com> schreef in bericht ) news:3dfb5aa4.3412887@news.demon.co.uk...  > Hi,  > G > Is there any way to invaidate a dump file, so that VMS thinks it does  > not contain a vaild dump?  >  > Many thanks in advance.  > F Would $ ANALYZE/CRASH/RELEASE SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP do what you want?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:44:51 -0500 $ From: Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com>. Subject: RE: How do you invalidate a dumpfile.J Message-ID: <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492AF14@lespaul.process.com>   > -----Original Message-----' > From: matt@drumheights.removethis.com * > [mailto:matt@drumheights.removethis.com], > Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:24 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > Subject: How do you invalidate a dumpfile. >  >  > Hi,  > G > Is there any way to invaidate a dump file, so that VMS thinks it does  > not contain a vaild dump?  >  > Many thanks in advance.  >  > 	Matt  >   < I assume rebooting the system is not an option in this case, because that'll do it.  B Someone else might have a elegant, simple answer, but I'll provide: an ugly, brute-force one.  You might get your hands on the> instructions for re-validating an invalidated dump, and deduce< what locations should be given what values to invalidate it.  9 You can use PATCH (assuming that's possible in this case) 9 to modify the file, just as if you were re-validating it. 8 The particulars depend on architecture, VMS version, and  in some cases, dump flags, IIRC.   -Mike Duffy    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Dec 2002 22:49 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)   Subject: Re: http_server crashes- Message-ID: <13DEC200222494888@gerg.tamu.edu>    }Horst Drechsel wrote: }Hi all, } 9 }   our www server crashes regularly a few times per day,  }the reason being unknown. } : }   The HTTP_SERVER_ERR.LOG files produced when the server! }is screwed up all look the same:  } G }====================================================================== G }HTTP DECThreads server, version 1.9, 12-JUL-1995, compiled Nov 16 1995 	 }05:23:02    }       Horst Drechsel  > This is an ancient (as these things go) version of the server.  G The current version is something like 3.10. You might try updating - it H has been 7 years since your version was compiled and that is a lot olderJ than the version of VMS you are using (I think you said 7.2, but I trimmed that info already).    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:06:04 -0000 * From: "John Travell" <john@travell.uk.net>* Subject: Re: Internals and Data Structures6 Message-ID: <atg30k$1399v3$1@ID-120847.news.dfncis.de>  @ "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message$ news:atcohg$rh9$1@web1.cup.hp.com... > Dear Newsgroup,  > G > My apologies if I already told you this, but I just can not remember. L > Anyway, are you aware that there is a new OpenVMS Alpha Internals and DataI > Structures (Memory Management) book by Ruth Goldenberg.  At the OpenVMS J > Symposium we got the first copies off the presses and along with OpenVMSL > with Apache, OSU and WASD by Alan Winston, we gave a copy to each attendeeD > (until we ran out). The publisher is Digital Press, ISBN number is > 1-55558-159-5  >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue  > F Darn, too late for me to get one off the company without paying for it myself !L (still looking for another job, most of the 'nearby' VMS customer seem to be suffering from hiring freezes!)        John Travell.      --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.426 / Virus Database: 239 - Release Date: 02/12/2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:30:20 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: Login lexical? ' Message-ID: <3DFAB3DC.A89930DE@fsi.net>    Rob Heyes wrote: >  > Thankyou all very kindly  D Some have suggested MAXJOBS, others a DCL loop using F$CONTEXT() andF F$PID(). The MAXJOBS approach is good for individual systems; however,5 for cluster-wide use, you'll need the other approach.   ? When setting up using F$CONTEXT(), you must be sure to include    
 NODE EQS *  6 Otherwise, you may still be limited to the local node.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:13:40 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: MAIL redirection ' Message-ID: <3DFAAFF4.FDCCEBE9@fsi.net>    Syltrem wrote: >  > Thanks for you inputM > I'll read carefully. This is not a priority so I may end up working on this  > again next year. > , > MAIL> SET FORWARD/USER=PERSON_ON_CALL JDOE > then, the next day: 0 > MAIL SET FORWARD/USER=PERSON_ON_CALL JTREMBLAY > etc  > N > I thought about this. How can I switch from one account to another to modify8 > the profile of another user in VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA ?   F Suitably privileged code should be able to do this via the appropriate MAIL$xxx call, no?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 05:47:50 +0100 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> Subject: Re: MAIL redirection 6 Message-ID: <3DFAB7F6.247@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>   Syltrem wrote: >  > Thanks for you inputF > I'll read carefully. This is not a priority so I may end up working  > on this again next year. > , > MAIL> SET FORWARD/USER=PERSON_ON_CALL JDOE > then, the next day: 0 > MAIL SET FORWARD/USER=PERSON_ON_CALL JTREMBLAY > etc  > E > I thought about this. How can I switch from one account to another  D > to modify the profile of another user in VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA ? I G > could use DLC and hardcode the field position in the record, but I'm   > not hardcode-prone...   E There is a utility MAILUAF on Hunter Goatley's FTP site to do this :  =  http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?MAILUAF    --   ME Posted by news://news.nb.nu    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:10:02 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.26 Message-ID: <atg374$147ncr$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  C "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> schreef in bericht   news:3DFB7F9B.2070409@Free.fr... > The question is: > H > Is it obvious to consider recompiling/linking in two years or so a few million K > lines of Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 on an Itanium Server running OpenVMS 8.2?  (the- > Pascal compiler is in the roadmap for 8.2).  > I > Or is it safer to consider upgrading the VAX from 5.5-2H4 to 8.2 first?  > 1 > I know, I have time, but the Customer does not.  > 	 > Thanks.  >  > D.L Definitely not an easy question Didier. But given the fact that the compilerJ is available for IA64/VMS, I'd stay with VAX/VMS until version 8.2 and the3 most recent version of the compiler then available.    Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2002 13:32:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.23 Message-ID: <vL2nupk+2$yX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3DFB7F9B.2070409@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:   Q > Is it obvious to consider recompiling/linking in two years or so a few million  Q > lines of Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 on an Itanium Server running OpenVMS 8.2? (the  - > Pascal compiler is in the roadmap for 8.2).  > I > Or is it safer to consider upgrading the VAX from 5.5-2H4 to 8.2 first?  > 1 > I know, I have time, but the Customer does not.   < If the customer does not have time and requires an immediate: upgrade for some reason, they should upgrade to Alpha now.= The fastest Alpha running VMS will be faster than the fastest + Itanium running VMS for several years more.   ; But you really have not given us much information regarding 1 why the customer feels a need to change anything.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:06:05 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2/ Message-ID: <3DFBAB49.5386975D@vl.videotron.ca>    Didier Morandi wrote: P > Is it obvious to consider recompiling/linking in two years or so a few millionP > lines of Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 on an Itanium Server running OpenVMS 8.2? (the- > Pascal compiler is in the roadmap for 8.2).   C Another thing to consider: Right now, Itanium and VMS on Itanium is L vapourware. (no offense to the VMS engineers working hard to make that real,N but from customer's perspectives, VMS on IA64 boxes that are faster than Alpha are still a nebulous entity).   L So, if it takes X years before VMS in IA64 is real, what happens to the codeJ during those X years ? Is the code mature and never changed, or does it go though regular updates ?    M How long does it take to test/certify the code after changes have been made ? " How often are those changes made ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:08:47 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2) Message-ID: <3DFBABEF.7000101@vajhoej.dk>    Didier Morandi wrote:   I > Is it obvious to consider recompiling/linking in two years or so a few  G > million lines of Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 on an Itanium Server running  ? > OpenVMS 8.2? (the Pascal compiler is in the roadmap for 8.2).  > I > Or is it safer to consider upgrading the VAX from 5.5-2H4 to 8.2 first?  > 1 > I know, I have time, but the Customer does not.   6 Well - Pascal is usually not dependent on VMS version.  5 And changes in VMS Pascal has been relative small for  many many years.  6 I would expect you to be able to copy your source code to the new box and compile it.  > At least if the Pascal port is done "The traditional DEC way".   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:12:05 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2' Message-ID: <3DFBACB4.37623480@Free.fr>    JF Mezei wrote:  > ../..  > So, if it takes X years before VMS in IA64 is real, what happens to the code during those X years ? Is the code mature and never changed, or does it go though regular updates ?  H As far as the Customer is concerned, they certainly prefer not to changeE anything, like MICHELIN in France who have more than a hundred of VAX E working perfectly well. I went to see them. My correspondent told me: B "when they reach their end of life date for HW maintenance, I willH purchase spare parts from brokers. This gives up enough time to consider0 a migration in ten years or so". (end of quote).  O > How long does it take to test/certify the code after changes have been made ?   H FYI, the whole workload for this Customer to set up their equipments has been around 50'000 days*man.  $ > How often are those changes made ?  G There were no changes since the installation of the Customer, but a few ) modifications in the workshop management.    D. --  3   ------------------------------------------------- 3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 --------------------------------------------------- 3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:15:03 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2' Message-ID: <3DFBAD66.5105AD45@Free.fr>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ../.. = > But you really have not given us much information regarding 3 > why the customer feels a need to change anything.   9 I do not know. Maybe a request from top level management.   C Frankly speaking, when you hear press news in France about VMS only F thanks to John The Ripper, you may wonder what you should do with yourF VMS systems, right? (I'm note sure my translation is understandable. I, mean HP France does not communicate on VMS).   D. --  3   ------------------------------------------------- 3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 --------------------------------------------------- 3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:35:29 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> P Subject: Re: Migration minute of the day:  Pascal VAX/VMS 5.5-2H4 to OpenVMS 8.2' Message-ID: <3DFC0691.EC05A6C0@fsi.net>    Didier Morandi wrote:  >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:	 > > ../.. ? > > But you really have not given us much information regarding 5 > > why the customer feels a need to change anything.  > ; > I do not know. Maybe a request from top level management.  > E > Frankly speaking, when you hear press news in France about VMS only H > thanks to John The Ripper, you may wonder what you should do with yourH > VMS systems, right? (I'm note sure my translation is understandable. I. > mean HP France does not communicate on VMS).  C HP (and predecessors) "does not communicate on VMS" anywhere in the  world, to my knowledge.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:19:35 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>: Subject: Re: misc HW maintenance end of life dates, where?' Message-ID: <3DFADB84.BC32EB2F@Free.fr>   
 VAXVMS wrote:  > 	 > Didier:  > + > I can't find a page with a chart, either.  > $ > One the FEs I deal with says that:   FE?    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:02:11 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: New PL/I kit Announcement9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEOKGDAA.tom@kednos.com>   7 New kits are avaialble both for commercial and hobbyist 1 licenses for both VAX and Alpha at www.kednos.com   6 These kits fix a problem in allocation of picture data
 constants.   Tom  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 10/31/2002    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 02:50:48 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> K Subject: Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets 2 Message-ID: <3DFA9AF2.AD0D7CB4@firstdbasource.com>   HARANGOZO CSABA wrote: > 4 > Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote: > [...snip...] > 5 >         Hmm... "at First DBA Souce, Inc "       :-)  > 2 >         You must have a saucy job, Michael...:-) > A >                                                 Cheers,   Csaba  > K >    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- K >    *   Csaba I. Harangozo       |   csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)au   * K >    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- = >    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:   E you must have had a wee to much of the sauce :)  as the name is First  DBA SouRce.    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:35:36 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> K Subject: Re: Newbie:Openvms 7.2-1 on Alpha - Telent not cleaning up sockets 2 Message-ID: <3DFBF6B4.2DB3C4AD@firstdbasource.com>   HARANGOZO CSABA wrote: > 4 > Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote: > > HARANGOZO CSABA wrote: > >>7 > >> Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:  > >> [...snip...]  > >>8 > >>         Hmm... "at First DBA Souce, Inc "       :-) > >>5 > >>         You must have a saucy job, Michael...:-)  > >>D > >>                                                 Cheers,   Csaba > >>N > >>    ----------------------------------------------------------------------N > >>    *   Csaba I. Harangozo       |   csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)au   *N > >>    ----------------------------------------------------------------------@ > >>    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]: > I > > you must have had a wee to much of the sauce :)  as the name is First  > > DBA SouRce.  > C >         I know it is, Michael. But have you looked at your posts' B >         headings lately :-) ? I quoted that. All your posts come@ >         with the spelling I quoted... for a long time I guess.E >         Do you have an "ORGANISATION" string defined somewhere ( if E >         you use some U*ix ) ? Or if you use some other software, it E >         might have a similar environmental symbol defined, with the  >         wrong spelling... 8 >                                         Cheers,  Csaba > ? >         P.S. Am I the only reader ( using TIN ) seeing this ?  > L >  -------------------------------------------------------------------------J >   CSABA I. HARANGOZO  |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|  csabah(at)zipworld(dot)com(dot)auL >  -------------------------------------------------------------------------= >    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:   F my apologies... it is getting harder to read these things lately, wearG contacts AND reading glasses or bi-focals... I looked at my Sig and the E email address... forgot about the "Organization" thingy in Netscape.     --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:07:26 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?/ Message-ID: <3DFB816C.6BF54F0C@vl.videotron.ca>    "Mark E. Levy" wrote: L > the things that VMS needs (can you say PALcode?). The IA32 just *does not*& > have the necessary hardware support,  J Are you 100% sure of this ? I realise that for the early batches of 8086s,O this may have been true. but what about current 8086 models such as Pentium 4 ?     M > 1. Bank-switched memory, and no real memory management. Let's not even talk ) > about that memory hole between 640K-1M.   N Didn't that all go away when they introduced the pentium 3 version of the 8086: with true 32 bit architecture and virtual memory support ?  ; > 3. Lack of processor modes (Kernel, Exec, Super & User).    M Are you absolutely positive about this on recent 8086 versions ? I asked this F question a week or two ago and didn't get the "8086 lacks those modes"3 resposne from one of those who work for Digital/HP.   M > abomination called the Registry. VMS' device detection takes place at every N > boot, and can be forced at any time (SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIG). This is also due > to the hardware.  L If windows can have a menu that "looks for devices" and updates the registryM (ok, so it often gets it wrong when there is a conflict), then Shirley, there N must me a way to scan the bus for devices. And yes, I will call you Shirley if I feel like it.   " > Yes, IA32 lack of "robustness."   I Funny, plenty of corporations are building serious applications on wintel J servers. Ask the NASDAQ stock exchange about their use of wintel stuff for their web server.   M I am not a fan of the 8086 toy controllers. But I admit that intel has done a L tremendous job in upgrading the 8086 into a chip one must not underestimate.L When Alpha came out, nobody ever considered that the 8086 would ever be ableM to even come close to Alpha. Yet, the 8086 has surpassed ALpha during certaineM periods. And they have upgraded it from the 16 bit (with 8 bit bus) into a 32l$ bit architeture with virtual memory.  K While there is no question that Windows/NT are crap and unstable, insecure,eC that doesn't automatically mean that it is because of the hardware.e  N In the days of "Digital", yes, I would definitely have prefered the quality ofM VAX or Alpha machines. But since Compaq (and now HP), I don't get a "warm andiM fuzzy" feeling that the hardware designed for VMS is that much different thanoN the wintel server stuff as far as the low end stuff. (Wildfire are, of course, a different breed).5  J I have yet to see a VMS engineer state categorically that VMS could not be ported to today's 8086s.  J Of course, all this discussion would never happen if Digital/Compaq/HP hadI decided to allow Alpha to compete at the lower end of the business markete< since we wouldn't be begging for low end business solutions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 07:22:27 GMTT* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?- Message-ID: <T_AK9.347688$QZ.51138@sccrnsc02>h  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DFAAE62.781557A7@fsi.net... C > Seems factual enough and seems to make sense for "everyone" else,dC > whatever "everyone" means to the reader. I'm apparently unable toeH > understand what makes VMS so unique that it alone is unable to succeedJ > in the IA32 world where "everything" else - from DOS to WhineBloze, fromH > *BSD to Linux, from BeOS to Novell, from TSX to DR-DOS - has succeededG > to some degree, though some have fallen by the wayside due to various F > forms of mismanagement ... or is that the piece I'm not getting: VMSJ > Engr. is capable of mastering the IA32 challenges, but VMS Management is > not?  K David, I keep trying to tell you but you won't listen. You don't understand-J the underlying hardware. It's precisely what makes VMS so much better thanF all of the OSs on your list that makes it impossible to move it to theL brain-dead IA32. VMS and the VAX were co-designed, and there is much more inL the hardware than there is for any of the OSs' you list. When VMS was portedI to Alpha, the chip designers made sure that the chip or it's firmware hadoJ the things that VMS needs (can you say PALcode?). The IA32 just *does not*H have the necessary hardware support, and if you lobotomize VMS to removeL those requirements, it won't be VMS anymore. One of the things that make VMSL what it is, is the hardware that it runs on. One of the things that makes M$? slopware as reliable as it is, is the hardware that it runs on.0    Let's see, here's my list again:  K 1. Bank-switched memory, and no real memory management. Let's not even talk ' about that memory hole between 640K-1M.cL 2. Polled interrupt structure vs. VAX/Alpha vectored interrupts (this is oneK reason why VMS can recognize new devices on-the-fly and NT needs to go thru  "add new hardware" bullshit)H 3. Lack of processor modes (Kernel, Exec, Super & User). This is vitallyI important to VMS' security. This is the single most difficult obstacle toD	 overcome.3  H Please, stop whining about why VMS Engineering or management won't do an* IA32 port and open your eyes to the facts.  F It may come as a suprise to you that when you install Windows, it goesC through an extensive device-detection and stores the result in that K abomination called the Registry. VMS' device detection takes place at everyPL boot, and can be forced at any time (SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIG). This is also due to the hardware.  I > Shouldn't take much beyond the end of 2003, even given current projectsn2 > in process. Else, something is severely lacking.  L Yes, IA32 lack of "robustness." And the fact that engineers would have to beI reassigned from other, more important activities. Furthermore, unless youAI are privy to everything the engineering staff is currently doing, how cang# you estimate how long it will take?s  C > ...and again, we're not talking about "commodity" hardware, we're-F > talking about server-class hardware - the biggest, beefiest ProliantI > type equipment, not those ranks of Dell, Gateway, etc. servers standing0/ > side by side in the data centers of the past.d  F Architecturally, there is little difference between a desktop PC and aI server. Servers have better I/O, more memory, hardware that's tested to a$G higher standard of performance, etc. but it's still the same processor.>  F > In the meantime, IA32 is still our puppy. There *HAS* to be a way to@ > save VMS by making it work on processors that are currently inH > manufacture and are readily accepted industry-wide. I REFUSE to accept* > the death of VMS due to sheer stupidity.  A What you are refusing to accept are the realities of the hardware H environment you're advocating. Just because it's ubiquitous doesn't meanH that it will work. You might as well be asking to port VMS to an abacus.  K The best chance you've got for VMS on IA32 is via a VAX emulator running onyH top of Windows or DOS. You're back to depending on M$ slopware again (ifK Windows crashes it will take VMS with it), and I doubt the performance willl make you very happy.  L Spend a few minutes in the internals manual and look again at the specs of a1 typical IA32 motherboard. You'll see what I mean.e  	 Mark Levy    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:06:58 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DFAAE62.781557A7@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3DF93915.A03B2D6C@fsi.net...t > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > ...r > 6 > > > A native port to IA32 of VMS isn't in the cards. > >o > > Time for a new deal! > J > Perhaps, but not one resulting in an IA32 port of VMS.  I don't think myM > credentials as a critic of how VMS has been handled are in very much doubt,oG > but some of what you're offering here is simply not factual and otherg! > portions just don't make sense.l  A Seems factual enough and seems to make sense for "everyone" else,eA whatever "everyone" means to the reader. I'm apparently unable to'F understand what makes VMS so unique that it alone is unable to succeedH in the IA32 world where "everything" else - from DOS to WhineBloze, fromF *BSD to Linux, from BeOS to Novell, from TSX to DR-DOS - has succeededE to some degree, though some have fallen by the wayside due to various D forms of mismanagement ... or is that the piece I'm not getting: VMSH Engr. is capable of mastering the IA32 challenges, but VMS Management is not?   > [snipped lots o' stuff]kL > But today?   If a high-priority IA32 porting effort were started today, it > could hardly ship before 2005n  G Shouldn't take much beyond the end of 2003, even given current projectso0 in process. Else, something is severely lacking.  C > Going after commodity-level desktops with VMS would be tilting atg > windmillsa  A ...and again, we're not talking about "commodity" hardware, we'reUD talking about server-class hardware - the biggest, beefiest ProliantG type equipment, not those ranks of Dell, Gateway, etc. servers standinga- side by side in the data centers of the past.l   > [snip] > >sI > > Au contraire - it's even more interesting now that VMS has no viable,t. > > marketable, ready-for-prime-time platform! > >h > > > IA64 on then > > > other hand is feasible,d > > L > > ...but is it POSSIBLE??!! Experience to date would seem to indicate that8 > > perhaps another alternative might be more expedient. > M > Rubbish.  They're 18 months into a 36-month port already, so the suggestionhF > that changing direction now would be 'more expedient' is ridiculous.  4 "Possible" was meant to refer to IA64, not the port.  D "More expedient" refers to another processor, since IA64 has been 10D years plus to get to this point, and heaven knows how much longer toB become mass-producible. That other processor, would not need to beC currently in manufacture, althought that would make the most sense.C  8 > > > and meets the requirements of the vast majority of > > > VMS customers. > > 4 > > ...if it ever becomes a mass-producible reality! > J > I don't think you've been paying attention.  While Itanic2 comes nowhereM > near to living up to the original Itanic hype ("2 - 3 times the performance N > of its RISC competition!"), and doesn't even live up to its launch hype (theI > only place it's a leadership product is in FP-style applications, whichnL > hardly constitute the core of commercial use), and certainly doesn't offerD > the current or future potential that Alpha did (which continues toL > demonstrate the utter incompetence of those who killed Alpha and sentencedL > their customers to an unwanted migration, even ignoring the issues of liesG > and perfidy), and may never become the mass-market product originally N > envisioned, it is *already* a usable product and, *unless* Hammer steals itsH > market away and forces Intel to release 'Yamhill' in retaliation, willF > probably be a platform that customers who don't require leading-edge? > performance or price/performance can commit their futures to.@  @ As used here, "mass producible" refers to Alpha-like quantities.  lK > So consider turning your efforts into more productive directions, such asrE > trying to put HP out of business if they don't change their overalluK > direction, apologize abjectly for past sins, and attach JATO units to VMStG > marketing and development.  The IA32 port horse is dead:  if VMS evereJ > becomes popular on a commodity platform, it will be on some successor to > IA32.t  G I just hope it's soon enough to save VMS, or what's left of it by then.   D In the meantime, IA32 is still our puppy. There *HAS* to be a way to> save VMS by making it work on processors that are currently inF manufacture and are readily accepted industry-wide. I REFUSE to accept( the death of VMS due to sheer stupidity.   -- : David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2002 18:36:05 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212141836.48309aeb@posting.google.com>h  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DFB816C.6BF54F0C@vl.videotron.ca>...t > "Mark E. Levy" wrote: N > > the things that VMS needs (can you say PALcode?). The IA32 just *does not*( > > have the necessary hardware support, > L > Are you 100% sure of this ? I realise that for the early batches of 8086s,Q > this may have been true. but what about current 8086 models such as Pentium 4 ?t >  > O > > 1. Bank-switched memory, and no real memory management. Let's not even talke+ > > about that memory hole between 640K-1M.e > P > Didn't that all go away when they introduced the pentium 3 version of the 8086< > with true 32 bit architecture and virtual memory support ? > = > > 3. Lack of processor modes (Kernel, Exec, Super & User).   > O > Are you absolutely positive about this on recent 8086 versions ? I asked this-H > question a week or two ago and didn't get the "8086 lacks those modes"5 > resposne from one of those who work for Digital/HP.s > O > > abomination called the Registry. VMS' device detection takes place at everynP > > boot, and can be forced at any time (SYSMAN IO AUTOCONFIG). This is also due > > to the hardware. > N > If windows can have a menu that "looks for devices" and updates the registryO > (ok, so it often gets it wrong when there is a conflict), then Shirley, thereaP > must me a way to scan the bus for devices. And yes, I will call you Shirley if > I feel like it.  > $ > > Yes, IA32 lack of "robustness."  > K > Funny, plenty of corporations are building serious applications on wintel L > servers. Ask the NASDAQ stock exchange about their use of wintel stuff for > their web server.  > O > I am not a fan of the 8086 toy controllers. But I admit that intel has done aeN > tremendous job in upgrading the 8086 into a chip one must not underestimate.N > When Alpha came out, nobody ever considered that the 8086 would ever be ableO > to even come close to Alpha. Yet, the 8086 has surpassed ALpha during certaineO > periods. And they have upgraded it from the 16 bit (with 8 bit bus) into a 32d& > bit architeture with virtual memory. > M > While there is no question that Windows/NT are crap and unstable, insecure,LE > that doesn't automatically mean that it is because of the hardware.- > P > In the days of "Digital", yes, I would definitely have prefered the quality ofO > VAX or Alpha machines. But since Compaq (and now HP), I don't get a "warm and0O > fuzzy" feeling that the hardware designed for VMS is that much different thangP > the wintel server stuff as far as the low end stuff. (Wildfire are, of course, > a different breed).u > L > I have yet to see a VMS engineer state categorically that VMS could not be > ported to today's 8086s. > L > Of course, all this discussion would never happen if Digital/Compaq/HP hadK > decided to allow Alpha to compete at the lower end of the business market > > since we wouldn't be begging for low end business solutions.  F you already have a low end 64 bit vms solution ... it is called alpha!D alphaserver 800's, 1200's, ds10's, ds20's, even pws 500/600 au still- powerful ... why do you want to go backwards?i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:17:25 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>m6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DFC0255.42AA924B@fsi.net>h   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ) > In article <3DFAAE62.781557A7@fsi.net>,m= >         "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:- > >aI > >                                                  . I REFUSE to acceptc, > > the death of VMS due to sheer stupidity. > >2 > K > I don't believe it is your choice to make.  If that is the wished of it'srI > owners, all we can do is sit around and watch and eventually attend the  > wake.P  H Careful with semantics, there. I don't have to like it, indeed all of usA are powerless to effect it, but no one is obligated to accept it,=F especially when there are alternative o.s.-es around, inferior as they may be.   C Recall a post from me of recent wherein I mentioned getting back insA touch with the cat who wanted me to teach a Solaris Admin. class.s  C I've "shaken the dust from my feet in protest" before, and I'll noteE hestitate to do it again. Neither, however, will I "go down without a  fight".r   --   David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:25:49 -0600a1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?' Message-ID: <3DFC044D.97C69B0A@fsi.net>a   "Mark E. Levy" wrote:o > [snipped]N   Easy, there! Call off the dogs!   A You know me, Mark. We were doing "clustering" (sharing files overoF ethernet by DECnet) getting onto 20 years ago, before VMS even had it. You know how I get on.  E What I'm really railing against is mindlessness, complacency, apathy,p# conformity ... that sort of thing. e  F ...then again, in the words of Gallagher, consider the fathers of thisE country: when they arrived here, it was good enough for them. "That'sm< why we call 'em 'settlers'. It was what they'd settle for!"   E Much like (insert o.s. of your choice here) ... well, you can fill ine that blank, I'm sure.r   -- r David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:32:04 GMTm9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>0E Subject: Re: Question on BACKUP/RECORD to reduce size of incrementals2? Message-ID: <46b5eaa44b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   > In message <OF07C31943.C38FD2C6-ON85256C8E.004D166B@metso.com>'           norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:u   > 
 > Jan-Erik > B > Well,  primarily because some of the directories on the disk areG > copied separately and do not need to be in a "full" or "incremental."oG > I have simplified the problem statement, so the details will not makesF > complete sense.  Also, there is an issue around time-to-complete andE > another around amount-of-tape/number-of-tapes until we get our taper6 > libraries installed to handle the 18GB disk upgrade. > M > So my short answer is:  If I could "just backup with...."  I would not have- > asked the question.  ;-) > 6 > I would still like a reponse if you have a solution. >  > -Normf > @ > From:  Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> on 12/13/2002 08:52 AM > 4 > Please respond to Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> >  > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:r > J > Subject:    Re: Question on BACKUP/RECORD to reduce size of incrementals >  >  > Why not just backup with > " > BACKUP/RECORD DSA101:[*...]*.*;* >  > ?? >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  >  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:t > >o0 > > I have an 18GB user disk that was created by$ > > copying 4 smaller disks onto it. > > / > > They are backed up weekly using (I believe)h( > > BACKUP/RECORD DISK_USER1:[*...]*.*;* > >-   Or don't use RECORD?  I We stopped using it a long time ago for two reasons. First, it screwed upeG ACLs on the top level directory in one specific version of VMS (V5.x?).-A Second, and still valid, it adds considerably to the backup time.d  J Instead we record in a file, the date and time of the start of the backup. Incrementals are then done  2 BACKUP <whatever> /modified/since=<date_and_time>.  J The advantage is speed, the disadvantage is that a file which failed to beK backed up by the previous backup, (open for write etc) may not be backed upNH this time. (Actually it should be, because if it was open for write thenK it's modified date should have been updated, and the time used is the STARToG of backup.) The penalty of using the start time is an increase in filesIL backed up twice. It was not a problem for us, it could be in a very volatile& environment with a long backup window.  J Anyway, in your situation you simply record separate dates for your 4 user trees.   Alan   -- /
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/-   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Dec 2002 21:54:09 -0800/ From: chinachowchow@mailcity.com (Rick Nickles):E Subject: Re: Question on BACKUP/RECORD to reduce size of incrementalse= Message-ID: <ac4e3b24.0212142154.3180a308@posting.google.com>   E Maybe I can help you understand the Backup/Record and how everything 9 changed in 6.2    G Basically there was a change in 6.2 on how the backup/record functioned   A before 6.2 if a FILE changed, only the changed file was backed up  during incremental backup.    G In 6.2 this behaviour changed so that if a DIRECTORY changed, then the rF entire directory structure would be backed up.  So if a directory wereB to be renamed, that whole structure would be backed up.  Of courseC any individual changed files would be backed up.  Theoretically, ifaC 000000.dir were to change in any way, then you would essentially beS8 backing up the entire disk during incremental backups.    E So, in solving a problem, this made it somewhat inconvenient at times C to do incremental backups.  Thankfully with the larger tape media, lC you can usually fit an entire full backup on one tape (depending onHB the amount of data you have), so this isn't as much of a concern..   Hope this helps. B   Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<46b5eaa44b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...@ > In message <OF07C31943.C38FD2C6-ON85256C8E.004D166B@metso.com>) >           norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  >  > >  > > Jan-Erik > > D > > Well,  primarily because some of the directories on the disk areI > > copied separately and do not need to be in a "full" or "incremental."oI > > I have simplified the problem statement, so the details will not makeaH > > complete sense.  Also, there is an issue around time-to-complete andG > > another around amount-of-tape/number-of-tapes until we get our tape 8 > > libraries installed to handle the 18GB disk upgrade. > > O > > So my short answer is:  If I could "just backup with...."  I would not have- > > asked the question.  ;-) > > 8 > > I would still like a reponse if you have a solution. > > 	 > > -Normo > > B > > From:  Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> on 12/13/2002 08:52 AM > > 6 > > Please respond to Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> > >   > > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > cc:o > > L > > Subject:    Re: Question on BACKUP/RECORD to reduce size of incrementals > >  > >  > > Why not just backup with > > $ > > BACKUP/RECORD DSA101:[*...]*.*;* > >  > > ?? > >  > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.n > > ! > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:i > > > 2 > > > I have an 18GB user disk that was created by& > > > copying 4 smaller disks onto it. > > >e1 > > > They are backed up weekly using (I believe)A* > > > BACKUP/RECORD DISK_USER1:[*...]*.*;* > > >a >  > Or don't use RECORD? > K > We stopped using it a long time ago for two reasons. First, it screwed upnI > ACLs on the top level directory in one specific version of VMS (V5.x?). C > Second, and still valid, it adds considerably to the backup time.  > L > Instead we record in a file, the date and time of the start of the backup. > Incrementals are then done > 4 > BACKUP <whatever> /modified/since=<date_and_time>. > L > The advantage is speed, the disadvantage is that a file which failed to beM > backed up by the previous backup, (open for write etc) may not be backed upuJ > this time. (Actually it should be, because if it was open for write thenM > it's modified date should have been updated, and the time used is the START I > of backup.) The penalty of using the start time is an increase in filesdN > backed up twice. It was not a problem for us, it could be in a very volatile( > environment with a long backup window. > L > Anyway, in your situation you simply record separate dates for your 4 user > trees. >  > Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:33:06 GMTo9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> 4 Subject: Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today.? Message-ID: <83cdeaa44b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   1 In message <iKKcnRRcxLzemmegXTWc2Q@mpowercom.net> 5           "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote:M  8 > "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message% > news:6DZzTj9zrods@elias.decus.ch... G > > In article <atas50$12pab8$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"o > <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:sE > > Spot on. I have seen aggressive driving in various countries, buts > absolutelyK > > nothing to match this. I feel sorry for his next victim, who may not bei > > able to cope.c > > K > A workable solution for this problem was developed on an ad hoc basis for J > the Los Angeles freeway system.  It consists of randomly arming drivers.M > When the other guy has a .45 in the glove compartment it tends to encourageeM > an even temper.  Think of it as a sort of Mutual Assured Destruction at thee > personal level.e >    Jack Peacockr >  Still sounds mad to me!    >    -- e
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/0   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 01:55:04 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>4 Subject: Re: Some idiot tried to terrorise me today.4 Message-ID: <1021214011906.400A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ( On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Jack Peacock wrote:  8 > "Paul Sture" <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote in message% > news:6DZzTj9zrods@elias.decus.ch... G > > In article <atas50$12pab8$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems"a > <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:-E > > Spot on. I have seen aggressive driving in various countries, buta > absolutelyK > > nothing to match this. I feel sorry for his next victim, who may not be0 > > able to cope.M > >iK > A workable solution for this problem was developed on an ad hoc basis forPJ > the Los Angeles freeway system.  It consists of randomly arming drivers.M > When the other guy has a .45 in the glove compartment it tends to encourage M > an even temper.  Think of it as a sort of Mutual Assured Destruction at the  > personal level.e >    Jack Peacock   D In December, 1994, I was on my way home from DECUS[1] in Anaheim andD first stopped off at a customer site nearby.  I asked about the bestA route to the airport (LAX), and they told me, among other things,tF "Don't signal when you want to change lanes.  People will deliberatelyB cut you off."  I laughed a little, thinking they were exagerating.  ? Somewhere between Garden Grove and LAX, two freeways merge, andl? then another one splits off, so you have about 2 miles to weave:A across 5 lanes (from the slow lane on the 1st freeway to the exitp( ramp for the freeway to the airport.)[2]  < I got about half way across the 2nd freeway, heading for the= exit, and using my turn signal (force of habit) when a little > red station wagon (a Subaru, I think) in the next lane decided? not to let me in.  I slowed down, it slowed down, I sped up, itM; sped up.  We started at about 60-65, went down below 50, upn> again to about 85, slowed down almost to 40, and then with the? exit approaching fast, I spotted a slower-moving truck ahead ine@ the Subaru's lane, so I used it to set a moving pick.  Passed itB at about 80, and cut across the front of it (and the Subaru, which@ was passing the truck on the right), and just made it across theB last lane to the exit.  I figured if I went down, at least I would; take a yuppie maggot, his wife and two larvae with me.  :-)t  < That's right, this idiot had a woman and two kids in the car  with him while doing this stunt.  / I didn't think he might be armed until later...l  > Got to the airport just in time to discover my flight had been: delayed 3 hours, my connection from JFK to Boston had been9 cancelled and all the restaurants at the airport had just- closed for the night.    [1] Are we on topic yet?  ? [2] I can't identify the place on an old map of LA, but I thinkc< they may have told me to follow a slightly indirect route to avoid traffic or construction.   -- V John Santos    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:36:44 GMT * From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@lythe.org.uk>) Subject: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems 9 Message-ID: <slrnavnu6a.47c.ejb@deliverance.lythe.org.uk>e   Hi,m  5 I'm trying to write a simple TCP/IP application usingL4 VMS system services; the idea is to send a short udp2 packet, but sys$qiow(IO$_WRITEVBLK) is not working#  as I want; I'm calling it as such:d  8  sys$qiow(EFN$C_ENF, inet_channel, IO$_WRITEVBLK, &iosb,:           0, 0, (char*)&mywd, cc, &serv_itemlst, 0, 0, 0);
           ! The error return is SS$_IVBUFLEN:() %SYSTEM-F-IVBUFLEN, invalid buffer length/  H According to Compaq's TCP/IP services docs, this means the value of 'cc'G is wrong; but it's printed beforehand, and it's certainly 108, which iss the correct value.   The I/O channel is assigned:0   sys$assign(&inet_device, &inet_channel, 0, 0);   the udp socket is requested:  "   udp_sockchar.prot = TCPIP$C_UDP;$   udp_sockchar.type = TCPIP$C_DGRAM;$   udp_sockchar.af = TCPIP$C_AF_INET;  0   sys$qiow(EFN$C_ENF, inet_channel, IO$_SETMODE,6            &iosb, 0, 0, &udp_sockchar, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0);  # and serv_itemlst is initialised as:   )   serv_itemlst.length = sizeof(mystaddr); #   serv_itemlst.address = &mystaddr;-    4 What could I be doing wrong? (Sorry if I've left out any information here...)     (Relevant system information:  $ tcpip show version  5   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.1 5   on a VAXserver 3900 Series running OpenVMS V7.3    t   $ cc/version) Compaq C V6.4-005 on OpenVMS VAX V7.3        Regards, Edward.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:25:50 -0500s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>- Subject: Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems-/ Message-ID: <3DFC0444.F1F11648@vl.videotron.ca>    Edward Brocklesby wrote:: >  sys$qiow(EFN$C_ENF, inet_channel, IO$_WRITEVBLK, &iosb,< >           0, 0, (char*)&mywd, cc, &serv_itemlst, 0, 0, 0); > # > The error return is SS$_IVBUFLEN:Z+ > %SYSTEM-F-IVBUFLEN, invalid buffer length@    N The doc says that on Alpha, the buffer length needs to be an unsigned quadword( (64 bits). ( but unsigned long on VAX).   > However, if you look at the code in SYS$EXAMPLES [.TCPIP], theK TCPIP$UDP_CLIENT_QIO.C example defined the buffer_length as a simple "int".>   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 04:40:21 GMT 6 From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@deliverance.lythe.org.uk>- Subject: Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems.9 Message-ID: <slrnavo1tl.4e4.ejb@deliverance.lythe.org.uk>   ? In article <3DFC0444.F1F11648@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote:-P > The doc says that on Alpha, the buffer length needs to be an unsigned quadword* > (64 bits). ( but unsigned long on VAX).   , 'unsigned long' was what I had originally ..  @ > However, if you look at the code in SYS$EXAMPLES [.TCPIP], theM > TCPIP$UDP_CLIENT_QIO.C example defined the buffer_length as a simple "int".   > .. and int doesn't appear to work either (result is the same).    / If it's helpful, I've put the entire code up atm+ http://www.lythe.org.uk/~ejb/source/rwhod.c   % (Yes, I'm aware it's a bit shoddy >:)    Regards, Edward.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 01:13:39 -0500 $ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>- Subject: Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problemsh. Message-ID: <3DFC1D93.CB71AD3A@eps.zk.dec.com>   >-1 > If it's helpful, I've put the entire code up at-- > http://www.lythe.org.uk/~ejb/source/rwhod.ci >i' > (Yes, I'm aware it's a bit shoddy >:)u  7    well, that appears to be the problem. It's shoddy...--  Didn't you simply accidently doubly declare:E)            struct itemlst_2 serv_itemlst;oI  Once in line 63 as a global, used by sendreport, and never initialized?!A=  Once in line 131as a local to main, and initialized by main.    hth,
      Hein.  J http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6529/6529pro_006.html#write2_qioL http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6529/6529pro_020.html#tcppmch05_13   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:33:42 +0100m, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IPa, Message-ID: <ui4gta.rou.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   JF Mezei wrote:L >  > Nic Clews wrote:3 > > > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHSEC, no such (global) sectionsJ > > implicit on the directory location. The full listing will tell you howJ > > the images are installed, you need to check the HELP inside INSTALL to > > see how to get the same. > J > If an image is not installed, would VMS really issue the "global section > missing" message ? > M > Would one really setup an application to directly refer to a global section Q > created when another image was installed ? Wouldn't it simply link against it ?r  E Not necessarily. As I wrote in another posting, we used to map such axC global section. The reason was because only one program should haveeG write access, while more than one program should have read access only.e  C With linking, I couldn't manage to achieve this. Just starting with H read/write mapping (because we linked to the exe) and then unmapping and; mapping it again readonly seemed not to be a good solution.S   Maybe there is another way ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:26:47 +0100v, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IP , Message-ID: <u54gta.lmu.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   VMSuser wrote: > 2 > Thank you JF and John for responding so quickly. > D > I was a bit surprised too that the EXEs didn't run under 7.2.  I'd> > rather stay with 7.2 instead of going back to 5.5, if I can. > @ > The error message I'm getting when I try to run a few of these > programs is ...  > / > %SYSTEM-F-NOSUCHSEC, no such (global) sectiond > 3 > ... then lists the modules, routines, lines, etc.h  G There _was_ a change in the behavior of installed shared image files in F VMS Version 6.2. We used to install FORTRAN COMMON Blocks in shareableF images. When these images were installed, the resulting global sectionA name has been XXXXXX_001, if XXXXXX was the program section name.i  C Starting with VMS 6.2 the global section name became something likeiG INS$8478D2C0_002, and mapping the global section (sys$mgblsc) with thisa  known name didn't work any more.  H The only solution was to change the code, thus this may help to know whyA the program doesn't run, but it won't help to get it running :-(.    Albrecht Schlosser   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:03:51 +0100t, From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs856@tiscali.de> Subject: Re: VMS & TCP/IP , Message-ID: <vr9gta.upv.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Albrecht Schlosser wrote:oJ > > images. When these images were installed, the resulting global sectionE > > name has been XXXXXX_001, if XXXXXX was the program section name.t > >tG > > Starting with VMS 6.2 the global section name became something likewK > > INS$8478D2C0_002, and mapping the global section (sys$mgblsc) with thise$ > > known name didn't work any more. > L > Could logical names be used to help coax the image into mapping to the new& > name when it asks for the old name ?  D That's what I did - but I translated the logical name in the code. IF think that I did this because the sys$mgblsc service doesn't translate= the gsdnam argument as a logical name. So this wouldn't help.   0 > Oterwise, PATCH would be the only way, right ?  D Maybe, but you would have to patch the exe file each time the global5 section gets installed, at least at each system boot.B   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:13:57 -0500s! From: kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ)s8 Subject: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSVO Message-ID: <A95EE9E55FFD6009.B465DB25544EB3F7.A02AE9EC84650C9D@lp.airnews.net>o  G We have several EMA16000 and EVA systems.  We're thinking about Volume kC Shadowing between the EMA and EVA systems.  In that case, where thehD Volume Shadowing Doc Set says that the target disks (VMS 7.2-2) must) have the same number of logical blocks...i  G Now, given that the EMA HSG80 system can allocate space as two mirroredsD 36 gb storageworks drives as a unit, how does one insure that a unitG published to the SAN from an EVA has the same number of logical blocks.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 03:27:40 GMTn1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>t< Subject: Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV2 Message-ID: <3DFBF4DB.7F59B199@firstdbasource.com>   Cable NJ wrote:a > H > We have several EMA16000 and EVA systems.  We're thinking about VolumeE > Shadowing between the EMA and EVA systems.  In that case, where the F > Volume Shadowing Doc Set says that the target disks (VMS 7.2-2) must+ > have the same number of logical blocks...l > I > Now, given that the EMA HSG80 system can allocate space as two mirrored F > 36 gb storageworks drives as a unit, how does one insure that a unitI > published to the SAN from an EVA has the same number of logical blocks.i  G you create logical disks until the number of logical blocks match wouldyF be my guess and is a good question because I may need to be doing this soon as well...  -- a Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:31:42 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]o' Message-ID: <3DFC05AE.D8818B96@fsi.net>i   Stuart Fuller wrote: >  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > >A > > Actually, that should read:e > >t9 > > Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?3E > > A: He keeps swapping in spares until he gets the four good tires.l > >k% > > The second one is just not funny.  > >hA > > From:  Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> on 12/12/2002 09:53 AM  > >t5 > > Please respond to Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>e > >h  > > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > cc:g > > H > > Subject:    [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem] > >  > > E > >> The usual troubleshooting technique used in this situation is tohF > >> strip the machine to its minimum configuration and test it. If it3 > >> fails swap one part at a time until it passes.h > >a9 > > Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?dF > > A: He swaps out each tire, one at a time, until he finds the flat. > >e< > > Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a dead Battery?H > > A: He swaps out each tire, one at a time, until he finds the flat... > & > Actually, neither of them are funny.  C Neither is the quality of the service we pay for, in certain cases.   F We have some local guys here who quite excellent. They are, of course,: well above average for that reason. "Average" can be quite  disappointing, indeed, at times.   -- h David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/V   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.691 ************************