1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 17 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 695       Contents:I 3X-DEGXA-SA and -TA technical info/supported platform available anywhere? # Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller . Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphaF Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ RE: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ RE: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph DCL_SMG_DEMO2.COM # Re: DCPS 2.1 and HP LaserJet 5000GN % RE: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP % Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP % Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP % Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP % Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP * Re: Determining a process' sub-process(es)* Re: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ???* Re: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ??? Hello Kieth Parris... pls help% Re: How do you invalidate a dumpfile. 6 Re: Imagine the cacophony from playing M$oft code.<NT>6 Re: Imagine the cacophony from playing M$oft code.<NT> RE: multinet RE: multinet+ Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker  Re: OpenVMS software?  Re: OpenVMS software? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - RE: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  RE: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS  Prob with smg$create_pasteboard @ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)@ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)! Re: Problems with Support-Website ! Re: Problems with Support-Website ! Re: Problems with Support-Website 6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP... Re: TCPIP PING Re: TCPIP PING& Using Legato as a tape-backup solution Re: Using old VRT19-HA Monitor VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem @ Re: VMS73_SYS05 (& VMS731_SYS02) kills dce, pathworks, goldfax ?3 Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV @ Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions ofK Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of	VMS	VMSVMS D Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMSD Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMS< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 12:32:22 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)R Subject: 3X-DEGXA-SA and -TA technical info/supported platform available anywhere?= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0212161232.5ace9a04@posting.google.com>   = The new DEGXA gigabit cards referenced in the V7.3-1 docs and C apparently discussed at DECUS as the new/better replacement for the C current rather slow cards are supposed to be orderable, but are not D yet delivering.  There does not appear to be any findable (via theirD own search) info on the HP site, or via Google, on if this card willA be supported on any existing servers, save for the doc mention of  operations with a DS25.   ; Is there in fact any available tech info on these cards, or @ information on which platforms (specifically DS10/20/20e/40, theD 'older' EV6x Alphaservers) might also be supported with these?  What@ is the 3Com model (according to the VMS docs it is a 3Com card)?   Thanks!    Rich Jordan  CCS    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 14:47:35 -08001 From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times= Message-ID: <857e9e41.0212161447.36cc0365@posting.google.com>   @ Folks what was not mentioned in the original message is that the# readerschoice url is Internal only.    sue       V Michael Unger <unger@decus.de> wrote in message news:<00A18709.58FA0A2A.7@decus.de>...) > "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote:  > : > > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote: > >  > > > [...]  > > > E > > > The newsletter is available at: www.hp.com/go/customerfirstnews . > > > <http://www.hp.com/go/customerfirstnews> > > >  > > > To subscribe, go to:G > > > <http://readerschoice.inline.cpqcorp.net/rcusers/rs.asp?sub=NS33>  > > > > > .. which simply resulted in a "server not found" error :-( >  >  > Follow-up to my own post ... > ; > http://h18000.www1.hp.com/hps/news/customerfirst_reg.html  > : > obviously works (found in the PDF newsletter on page 19) > 	 > Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:18:18 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times8 Message-ID: <20021216151818.67cb44e0.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:16:59 -05006 "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote:   > -----Original Message----- >  > From: Barnes, Cindy  > * > Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 12:38 PM > 9 > To: UK&I Sol UNIX; EMEA Alpha Channel Partners; HPSS NA  > 7 > Subject: December 2002 Edition - Customer First Times   2 Shoot the marketdroid who made up that awful name.  ' Presumably it's supposed to be read as:      "Customer First" Times   but I read it as     Customer "First Times"  : which, come to think of it, would probably make for a much more interesting read!   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:36:07 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times/ Message-ID: <3DFE715D.57E56E3A@vl.videotron.ca>    David Mathog wrote: 4 > Shoot the marketdroid who made up that awful name. > ) > Presumably it's supposed to be read as:  >  >   "Customer First" Times >  > but I read it as >  >   Customer "First Times"   or:    	"Customer's First Time"    C (the later would have required a "Rated R" warning on the cover :-)     I In all fairness, VMS was discussed at the top. However, I am puzzled. Did N Digital really add the "open" in 1991 prior to VMS being available on Alpha in 1992 ?    H Interesting that 5they mention the messaging server. But why use "CompaqK Office Server" instead of "ALL-IN-1" ? Since both are one and the same, and M both have been declared mature and not ported beyond Alpha, it is interesting 9 that they would mention those products in the newsletter.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:18:15 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times/ Message-ID: <uvt2ba1iku7r2a@news.supernews.com>   = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3DFE715D.57E56E3A@vl.videotron.ca...  > David Mathog wrote: 6 > > Shoot the marketdroid who made up that awful name. > > + > > Presumably it's supposed to be read as:  > >  > >   "Customer First" Times > >  > > but I read it as > >  > >   Customer "First Times" >  > or:  >  > "Customer's First Time"  >  > E > (the later would have required a "Rated R" warning on the cover :-)  >  > K > In all fairness, VMS was discussed at the top. However, I am puzzled. Did G > Digital really add the "open" in 1991 prior to VMS being available on  Alpha in > 1992 ? >   8 "Open" was added because of POSIX, not because of Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:20:42 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller' Message-ID: <3DFD468A.961FC10B@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3DFCBC2F.7B47DD81@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > < > >> Is there any chance of influencing the product vendor ? > > L > > The vendor is, of course, DEC/Q/HP who, as evidenced by multiple threads$ > > here, are not easily influenced. > > > Not "of course".  Some of us third parties use DEC Document. >  > > The product is DCSC. >  > What is DCSC ?  F See the SPD for "Data Cartridge Server Component". I think it might be 33.56, but not 100% sure.   B An update: The "Print book" option works better than selecting all@ topics and printing them all at one go. It still comes out kinda9 *bleah*, but at least it's readable - with some patience.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:48:36 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller' Message-ID: <3DFE9084.2ECCDF55@fsi.net>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > _ > > In article <3DFCBC2F.7B47DD81@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > > > > >> Is there any chance of influencing the product vendor ? > > > N > > > The vendor is, of course, DEC/Q/HP who, as evidenced by multiple threads& > > > here, are not easily influenced. > > @ > > Not "of course".  Some of us third parties use DEC Document. > >  > > > The product is DCSC. > >  > > What is DCSC ? > H > See the SPD for "Data Cartridge Server Component". I think it might be > 33.56, but not 100% sure.    Make that 33.59    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:11:03 GMT * From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>7 Subject: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha ? Message-ID: <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   C I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run G Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My K 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours H (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's< slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.   ML   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:49:07 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha ) Message-ID: <3DFE3C43.3060701@vajhoej.dk>    Mark E. Levy wrote:   E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run I > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My M > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours J > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.  D Are you running an Athlon 2400 (2 GHz) or an Athlon 3000 (2.4 GHz) ?  0 I assume the first and 2000/533 is "only" 3.75 !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:47:41 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>; Subject: RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <01C2A501.56E82540@sulfer.icius.com>  > AFAIK, there is no Athlon 3000+ available yet, so I think your assumption is safe.    Shane    -----Original Message-----, From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]( Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:49 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha      Mark E. Levy wrote:   E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run H > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. = MyI > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 =  hours G > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet =  it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.  D Are you running an Athlon 2400 (2 GHz) or an Athlon 3000 (2.4 GHz) ?  0 I assume the first and 2000/533 is "only" 3.75 !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:11:22 GMT * From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha ( Message-ID: <ecsL9.41$6J1.423@sccrnsc04>  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message ) news:3DFE4067.8D9785CB@vl.videotron.ca...  > "Mark E. Levy" wrote: L > > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's@ > > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me. > J > Sorry, there is nothing astounding in it.It was a perfectly logical move fromK > a company such as Compaq which depends on Intel for most of its strategic L > business. Intel needed Alpha out of the way so that its IA64 wouldn't look so terrible. > G > Compaq should have never purchased Digital.  Someone else than Palmer  shouldJ > have preplaced Olsen, with a clear madate and philosophy to turn Digital into@ > a lean and mean IT provider that competed head to head against competitors,L > instead of trying to please competitors by cannabalising its own products.  D "Sorry?" What are you sorry about? I didn't say WHERE the phenomonalJ stupidity began. Palmer was/is a worthless piece of trash who leaves deathI and destruction wherever he goes. He was nothing more than a BG wanna be, ! but without the honor & humility.   B Compaq without Palmer had an opportunity to market the Alpha as anL alternative to Intel, but being a bunch of PC weenies, they only cared aboutL making Groves & Gates happy, and had no real backbones of their own. AnotherL bunch of wanna-be's, running another me-too PC maker. Yawn. What made CompaqL different than Dell? Or Gateway? Absolutely nothing. MOTSS (More Of The Same Shit.)  I We can only hope that HP, with a history not too much unlike DECs, can do  something to turn this around.   ML   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2002 01:40:00 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon); Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 4 Message-ID: <atlv9g$fdvg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>  ? In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, - 	"Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run I > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My M > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours J > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.    F While not meaning to hint anything against Alpha as I too think it wasH probably the best modern processor yet, I do have to say one thing about
 the previous.   H You can not compare clock rates on dis-similar architectures.  Heck, youH can't really compare clock rates on similar but different architectures.F Clock rate is not a measure of how fast a processor is it is a measureH of how fast the processor can do one thing.  What is much more importantH how much work can be done on each clock cycle.  If a processor has twiceI the clock speed but takes three times as many clock cycles to do a single ) memory load, it isn't going to be faster.   F Alpha may not have had the highest clock speeds, but it did a lot moreD with what it had than anything in the x86 family.  And that includes the next generation.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:49:10 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>; Subject: RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <01C2A52B.880D1250@sulfer.icius.com>  F AMD recognize this, and that's why they give speed ratings rather than@ MHz. For example, the Athlon XP 2100+ I'm typing this on runs atC 1733mhz. The 2100 is the theoretical clock speed an original Athlon : would have to run at to get the same performance, based on& extrapolations of a set of benchmarks.  C However, in context probably we should be looking at the age of the H chips in question. The 2400+ is the latest and greatest Athlon, and it'sE only a little quicker than an Alpha that's several years old. I'd say G that's pretty embarrassing for the Athlon. Stack it against the Alpha's F current best available (Ghz+ EV67?), I'd bet good chocolate the AthlonH would get spanked righteously. Of course, all the top of the line AlphasF are likely in production environments, so we probably won't get to see= that. Unless of course someone has one, and can post numbers?    Shane    -----Original Message-----0 From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu]' Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:40 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha     ? In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, - 	"Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run I > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My M > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours J > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.    F While not meaning to hint anything against Alpha as I too think it wasH probably the best modern processor yet, I do have to say one thing about
 the previous.   H You can not compare clock rates on dis-similar architectures.  Heck, youH can't really compare clock rates on similar but different architectures.F Clock rate is not a measure of how fast a processor is it is a measureH of how fast the processor can do one thing.  What is much more importantH how much work can be done on each clock cycle.  If a processor has twiceB the clock speed but takes three times as many clock cycles to do a single) memory load, it isn't going to be faster.   F Alpha may not have had the highest clock speeds, but it did a lot moreD with what it had than anything in the x86 family.  And that includes the next generation.   bill   --  C Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 19:43:12 -06003 From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton) O Subject: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 3 Message-ID: <hxMrkVAhTDYx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes:E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run I > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My M > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours J > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me. >  > ML >  >    Hi Mark,  N My (admittedly limited) understanding of the speed at which SETI workunits areN crunched, leads me to think that raw CPU speed is not as important a factor asK the amount of on-chip (L2?) cache available to the processor.  Any idea how & much cache is involved in each system?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:18:08 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>S Subject: RE: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 0 Message-ID: <01C2A537.F6AB4900@sulfer.icius.com>   From AMD's website:   E "The AMD Athlon? XP processor with performance-enhancing cache memory B features 64K instruction and 64K data cache for a total of 128K L1? cache. 256K of integrated, on-chip L2 cache for a total of 384K  full-speed, on-chip cache."    See H http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_756_373 4%5E3738,00.html   (Sorry about the wrap.)   H <Sarcasm>I'm just /so/ surprised I couldn't find the figures for EV56 as easily on HP's site.</Sarcasm>   Shane    -----Original Message-----< From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 [mailto:bradhamilton@127.0.0.1]' Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:43 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B Subject: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph    H In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Mark E.# Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run I > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My M > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours J > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me. >  > ML >  >    Hi Mark,  @ My (admittedly limited) understanding of the speed at which SETI
 workunits are D crunched, leads me to think that raw CPU speed is not as important a	 factor as G the amount of on-chip (L2?) cache available to the processor.  Any idea  how & much cache is involved in each system?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:41:31 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 2 Message-ID: <g7acncNVi49-AWOgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  @ "Bradford J. Hamilton" <bradhamilton@127.0.0.1> wrote in message- news:hxMrkVAhTDYx@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   L > My (admittedly limited) understanding of the speed at which SETI workunits are F > crunched, leads me to think that raw CPU speed is not as important a	 factor as I > the amount of on-chip (L2?) cache available to the processor.  Any idea  how ( > much cache is involved in each system?  I The Athlon has 128 KB of L1 and 256 KB of L2 on chip, and they complement J each other (i.e., L1 data is not resident in L2) yielding an on-chip total
 of 384 KB.  J Alpha EV6 has 128 KB of L1 cache on chip (half I cache, half D cache, justH like Athlon IIRC) and no L2, so it's unlikely EV5 (IIRC that's what MarkI has) has any more than that.  However, EV6 has provisions for low-latency 3 off-chip L2 (there's an interesting analysis of EV7 K  http://www.c3.lanl.gov/par_arch/pubs/LAUR-02-4850.pdf ] recently unearthed G at realworldtech.com that indicates off-chip L2 latency of 15 - 19 ns., I which if true is pretty impressive given that EV7's on-chip L2 latency is I about 10 ns.).  On yet another hand, during the discussion Paul DeMone (I L think) said that the off-chip L2 was direct-mapped, vs. 7-way associative onG EV7 - but another poster suggested that with such a large cache (with a @ smaller cache in front of it skimming off most of the easy hits)= associativity was a lot less important than with an L1 cache.   G Most of the above may not be relevant to EV5 cache performance, but the G comparison of EV6 and EV7 in the paper cited was quite interesting.  If E indeed the direct mapping of the EV6 off-chip L2 is not a significant H handicap, and its latency is as advertised, then EV7 may not perform allH that much better than EV6 on latency-sensitive workloads, since its muchI faster memory may be largely offset by the much smaller and not that much G faster on-chip L2 (I find this difficult to believe, but we'll see soon  enough).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 21:10:44 -06003 From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton) S Subject: RE: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 3 Message-ID: <bKVsoVwdSI5V@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <01C2A537.F6AB4900@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:  > From AMD's website:  > G > "The AMD Athlon? XP processor with performance-enhancing cache memory D > features 64K instruction and 64K data cache for a total of 128K L1A > cache. 256K of integrated, on-chip L2 cache for a total of 384K  > full-speed, on-chip cache."  >  > See J > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_756_373 > 4%5E3738,00.html >  > (Sorry about the wrap.)  > J > <Sarcasm>I'm just /so/ surprised I couldn't find the figures for EV56 as  > easily on HP's site.</Sarcasm> >  > Shane   I Still, it should be possible for Mark to glean that information from CLUE  CONFIG, correct?  F Bill Todd's followup to this post is, as usual, quite instructive.  MyO recollection of an 8400 (EV56, with 625MHz CPU's) was that those CPU's had 2 or O 4 Meg of cache.  In retrospect, 384K does not seem like much at all, especially I when I have a PII 400MHz at home with 512K of cache, and I am typing this ? message on a PII 800MHz notebook with the same amount of cache.   K Again, I could be mis-remembering the amount of cache on the Alpha.  Anyone 1 else care to follow up, or provide solid numbers?    >  > -----Original Message-----> > From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 [mailto:bradhamilton@127.0.0.1]) > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:43 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com D > Subject: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in > killing Alph >  > J > In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Mark E.% > Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: F >> I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I runJ >> Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. MyN >> 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hoursK >> (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's ? >> slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.  >>   >> ML  >>   >>   > 
 > Hi Mark, > B > My (admittedly limited) understanding of the speed at which SETI > workunits are F > crunched, leads me to think that raw CPU speed is not as important a > factor as I > the amount of on-chip (L2?) cache available to the processor.  Any idea  > how ( > much cache is involved in each system?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:46:18 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1612022346180001@user-2ive30u.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <bKVsoVwdSI5V@eisner.encompasserve.org>, bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton) wrote:      K >> <Sarcasm>I'm just /so/ surprised I couldn't find the figures for EV56 as ! >> easily on HP's site.</Sarcasm>  >>   >> Shane > J >Still, it should be possible for Mark to glean that information from CLUE >CONFIG, correct?   6 I don't think so.  VMS isn't very aware of the caches.    G >Bill Todd's followup to this post is, as usual, quite instructive.  My P >recollection of an 8400 (EV56, with 625MHz CPU's) was that those CPU's had 2 orP >4 Meg of cache.  In retrospect, 384K does not seem like much at all, especiallyJ >when I have a PII 400MHz at home with 512K of cache, and I am typing this@ >message on a PII 800MHz notebook with the same amount of cache. > L >Again, I could be mis-remembering the amount of cache on the Alpha.  Anyone2 >else care to follow up, or provide solid numbers?  L I have some data sheets I saved from the alphaserver web pages a while back.   For EV5: Alpha 21164 Microprocessor
 Data Sheet Order Number: ECQP98CTE    August 1998      3.6 Cache OrganizationG The 21164 has three onchip cachesa primary L1 data cache, a primary L1 F instruction cache, and a second-level L2 combined data and instruction> cache. All memory cells in the onchip caches are fully static, 6-transistor, CMOS structures.  O The 21164 also provides control for an optional board-level, external L3 cache.    3.6.1 Data CacheG The data cache (Dcache) is a dual-read-ported, single-write-ported, 8KB J cache. It is a write-through, read-allocate, direct-mapped, physical cache with 32-byte blocks.   3.6.2 Instruction Cache F The instruction cache (Icache) is an 8KB, virtual, direct-mapped cache with 32-byte blocks.  ...    3.6.3 Second-Level CacheB The second-level cache (Scache) is a 96KB, 3-way, set-associative,J physical, write-back, write-allocate cache with 32-byte or 64-byte blocks.H It is a mixed data and instruction cache. The Scache is fully pipelined;G it processes read and write operations at the rate of one INT16 per CPU F cycle and can alternate between read and write accesses without bubble cycles.   P When operating in 32-byte block mode, the Scache has 64-byte blocks with 32-byteF subblocks, one tag per block. If configured to 32 bytes, the Scache isG organized as three sets of 512 blocks, with each block divided into two J 32-byte subblocks. If con-figured to 64 bytes, the Scache is three sets of 512 64-byte blocks.    3.6.4 External CacheN The CBU implements control for an optional, external, direct-mapped, physical,J write-back, write-allocate cache with 32-byte or 64-byte blocks. The 21164G supports board-level cache sizes of 1MB, 2MB, 4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB, and  64MB.    Appendix A (excerpt):   < Chips                                           Order Number8 Alpha 21164 533-MHz microprocessor for NT only  21164P88 Alpha 21164 500-MHz microprocessor              21164JC8 Alpha 21164 533-MHz microprocessor              21164KC8 Alpha 21164 600-MHz microprocessor              21164MC   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:32:45 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> Subject: DCL_SMG_DEMO2.COM' Message-ID: <3DFE548E.EA1E3847@Free.fr>    $! seems to be broken...
 $ set noon $ delete="delete" E $ if f$search("smg$debug.temp") .nes. "" then delete smg$debug.temp;* C $ if f$search("smg$debug.txt") .nes. "" then delete smg$debug.txt;*  $ step = "1. init"
 $ gosub DEBUG , $ step = "2. create display 1 and put lines"? $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_create_virtual_display 12 40 window_1 Y M $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 1/7 in window 1." 2 2 window_1 M $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 2/7 in window 1." 3 2 window_1 M $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 3/7 in window 1." 4 2 window_1 M $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 4/7 in window 1." 5 2 window_1 R $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "(previous line should be blank :-)" 7 2 window_1M $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 7/7 in window 1." 8 2 window_1 $ $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_clear_screen
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ step = "3. paste display 1" ; $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_paste_virtual_display 5 10 window_1 
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ wait 00:00:05 , $ step = "4. create display 2 and put lines"> $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_create_virtual_display 8 30 window_2 YK $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 1 in window 2." 2 2 window_2 K $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 2 in window 2." 3 2 window_2 K $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 3 in window 2." 4 2 window_2 K $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 4 in window 2." 5 2 window_2 K $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 5 in window 2." 6 2 window_2 
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ step = "5. paste display 2" ; $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_paste_virtual_display 8 14 window_2 
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ wait 00:00:05 , $ step = "6. create display 3 and put lines"> $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_create_virtual_display 5 20 window_3 YK $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 1 in window 3." 2 2 window_3 K $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 2 in window 3." 3 2 window_3 K $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "This is line 3 in window 3." 4 2 window_3 
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ step = "7. paste display 3" < $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_paste_virtual_display 10 20 window_3
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ wait 00:00:03  $ step = "8. unpaste display 3" 8 $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_unpaste_virtual_display window_3
 $ gosub DEBUG  $ wait 00:00:03  $ step = "9. unpaste display 2"c8 $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_unpaste_virtual_display window_2
 $ gosub DEBUGi $ inq dummy "RETURN" f! $ @sys$login:delete_symbols smg$*n+ $ append/new smg$debug.temp;* smg$debug.txts $ exit $! $DEBUG:e" $ define sys$output smg$debug.temp $ define sys$error nl:C $ write sys$output "----------------------------------------------"d0 $ write sys$output "Step: ",step," on ",f$time() $ sh symb/global smg$* $ deassign sys$outputo $ deassign sys$error $ return   -- o3   -------------------------------------------------p3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.frq0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans.n3 ---------------------------------------------------n3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:53:29 +1030:/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>h, Subject: Re: DCPS 2.1 and HP LaserJet 5000GN3 Message-ID: <atis22$ski$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>e  C Thanks for that Paul.  I had checked the release notes but not the IJ manager's guide.  I'm pleased to see it explicitly mentioned.  As soon as J we get another release of the firmware I'll let you know whether it fixed  the problem.   Paul Anderson wrote:A > In article <atb23n$i5q$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>, Mark DanielS& > <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote: >  >  >>Paul Anderson wrote: >>B >>>In article <at61pe$l7e$1@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au>, Mark Daniel' >>><Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote:o >  > , >>>What is your printer's firmware datecode? >> >>971111 MOBY3.60o >  > F > I should have checked the DCPS documentation first.  From the System > Manager's Guide: > ) >   10.19 HP LaserJet 4000, 4050 and 5000n > & >     10.19.1 Minimum Firmware Version > G >     To use an HP LaserJet 4000 or 5000 printer from DCPS, the printer G >     must be running a minimum firmware version of 19980714 MB3.68. TobI >     use an HP LaserJet 4050 printer, it is recommended that the printermG >     be running a minimum firmware version of 19991030 MB6.30. EarliernC >     versions of firmware may cause problems such as misprinted orpH >     missing characters when using the DCPS ANSI translator, especiallyF >     when printing jobs with landscape orientation or NUMBER_UP. ThisF >     firmware version number is displayed as Firmware Datecode on the# >     printers configuration page.A > I >     If your printer is running an older version of firmware, contact HPeH >     and request the proper version. The new firmware will be sent on a+ >     SIMM to be installed in your printer.e > I > So although you aren't experiencing the problem mentioned (yet) I wouldv0 > suggest getting a newer printer firmware SIMM. >  > H >>We have a software maintenance contract.  Should I just put in a call? >  > I > Yes, but not a DCPS software call.  Last I knew, one way to get printerrE > firmware SIMMs was to call HP Parts Direct at 800-227-8164.  Selecte3 > "parts order" and then "personal/small business".- >  > Paul >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:12:31 -08000$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: RE: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP0 Message-ID: <01C2A4F4.2F410140@sulfer.icius.com>  F Look in (IIRC) DECW$EXAMPLES for something called "ico". It's a littleG program that displays a rotating 3d line drawing, but it's got the mostUE comprehensive error trapping I've seen in an example. Try pushing its D display to the target node, and there's a good chance it'll tell you exactly what's wrong.a   Shanet   -----Original Message-----: From: Chris Clifford [mailto:chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk]( Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:07 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . Subject: Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP    - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messagef0 news:atieo4$1468dg$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... >A > > --; > The session manager on the target VAX was set as follows:o >  > protocol    node    username > DECnet      *             *i > TCPIP        *             *  > LAT            *             * >0  ? This is entirely from memory so excuse if I'm not 100% correct.   H By default, I don't believe that TCP/IP is configured as a transport for" incoming nor outgoing connections.  C You need to modify DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM (or something veryd similar)F and enable TCP/IP as a possible transport. There's instructions within the F command procedure - I think you need to change the value of one of the symbols.  C I think that the file provided with the default VMS installation is:D DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE so you'll need to copy it to .COM then dog
 the edits.   - Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:55:45 +0100o" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>. Subject: Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP4 Message-ID: <atli5l$cgrq$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>  ? "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> schreef in bericht8) news:3DFD027D.BEE383D8@vl.videotron.ca...h$ > nickerson@mirage.boeing.com wrote:J > > decw$private_server_setup.com (from the .template); and of course hereF > > you also need the VMS session security to allow TCPIP connections; >cJ > Interesting that decw$private_server_setup sets the value of a symbol to the1 > list of transports.a >cL > But DECW$STARTUP.com checks the presence of DECW$INSTALL_TCPIP to determinB > whether it shoudl add TCPIP to the symbol containing the list of transports.  > D > Also, what do you mean by "the VMS session security to allow TCPIP > connections" ????a >eI > If you enable a remote client to open a window on your x-window server,  doesI > this have anything to do with VMS security ?  (I realise that there aretJ > security issues with regards to allowing anyone to open a windwo on yoruI > display, but just curious as to what VMS features need to be changed toh allowi > this ? >aE > Does the opening of a window on your displayt create a separate VMSn	 process ?l  J OK that was the answer: I added define/system DECW$INSTALL_TCPIP "TRUE" toG SYLOGICALS.COM and it worked. That is: it is now possible to create x11nH session over IP from one VAX/VMS system to another as well as create kdeL sessions from a linux host to a VMS host too. KDE gets confused, the controlE center sometimes goes away when an xterm panel is closed, but that iss obviously not a VMS problem.  J All these systems live on an isolated ethernet segment, so security is not@ an issue here. So it is set wide open on my systems, as follows:  % Session Panel>>Options>>Security.....i  H In the widget you must enter Node Username and Transport. That's where IK entered resp. *, * and TCPIP. I mean the systems run with DECnet proxies in L a similar fashion (*::* translates to *). Of course this is a very dangerous2 set up when one connects directly to the Internet.  L Yes, a new DECterm window opens an FTA device. Each new DECW$SESSION createsF two disconnectd MBA devices, one for DECW$MWM and one for VUE$SYSTEM_n   Hans   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:27:35 GMT $ From: nickerson@mirage.boeing.com (). Subject: Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP( Message-ID: <H76JLz.1Av@news.boeing.com>  - In article <3dfce0e9$1@news.swissonline.ch>, v7 "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk> writes:.    A |>This is entirely from memory so excuse if I'm not 100% correct.  |>J |>By default, I don't believe that TCP/IP is configured as a transport for$ |>incoming nor outgoing connections.    H my memory is that TCPIP is enabled outgoing (ie. logging in to VMS from E a remote user and displaying on that remote Xserver) from VMS to any aE sort of remote; thus if it is installed and running you usually want sC to check the security at the remote; to check on it you might do a t? $ install > list ; you're looking for sys$library:.exe and the 9M decw$transport_* being installed; I believe that seeing DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP -. denotes it as an available outgoing transport;  I it is incoming (ie. display to the VMS local console display when logged :G into a remote machine) TCPIP that needs to be enabled with sys$manager:BG decw$private_server_setup.com (from the .template); and of course here @B you also need the VMS session security to allow TCPIP connections;   --bn (Bart Nickerson)  nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com (206) 662-0183 d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:09:47 -0500d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP/ Message-ID: <3DFCFD9F.9ED493A7@vl.videotron.ca>    Chris Clifford wrote:CJ > By default, I don't believe that TCP/IP is configured as a transport for$ > incoming nor outgoing connections.  L By default, tcpip outbound works out of the box. But inbound must be enabled> (the server must listen on a TCPIP port for inbound requests).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:30:33 -0500b0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>. Subject: Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP/ Message-ID: <3DFD027D.BEE383D8@vl.videotron.ca>-  " nickerson@mirage.boeing.com wrote:H > decw$private_server_setup.com (from the .template); and of course hereD > you also need the VMS session security to allow TCPIP connections;  L Interesting that decw$private_server_setup sets the value of a symbol to the list of transports.7  J But DECW$STARTUP.com checks the presence of DECW$INSTALL_TCPIP to determinL whether it shoudl add TCPIP to the symbol containing the list of transports.  B Also, what do you mean by "the VMS session security to allow TCPIP connections" ????t  L If you enable a remote client to open a window on your x-window server, doesG this have anything to do with VMS security ?  (I realise that there areDH security issues with regards to allowing anyone to open a windwo on yoruM display, but just curious as to what VMS features need to be changed to allow3 this ? -  M Does the opening of a window on your displayt create a separate VMS process ?f   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 11:36:09 -0800, From: colive@technologEase.com (Chris Olive)3 Subject: Re: Determining a process' sub-process(es)-= Message-ID: <b10654c6.0212161136.4e9f59a1@posting.google.com>h  j Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<3DFB47EA.4B02515@firstdbasource.com>... > Art George wrote:n > > P > > Take a look at SYS$PROCESS_SCAN. It should have all the criteria you need toH > > determine what the sub-processes are. This system service works withM > > SYS$GETJPI to determine the information regarding a specific sub-process.r > >  > > Art. > > 8 > > "Roose Chua" <roose_chua@yahoo.com> wrote in message; > > news:127ddcff.0212132217.2d7ed689@posting.google.com...m
 > > > Hi all,5 > > >a@ > > > Could someone be able to help me how I could determine theJ > > > subprocesses of a certain process? We usually have some process thatL > > > interface with Oracle and on that process, creates a sub-process whichK > > > does the Oracle transactions. So, when we try to monitor the "mother"oJ > > > process, it would seem to be hanging, but in fact, it is waiting for  J > > > it's subprocess to complete. What we usually do is to ask our OracleC > > > DBA to determine through Oracle what is the process ID of thesJ > > > subprocess that was created, and then we are able to monitor it. AnyI > > > chance that I could get this through VMS alone and without going to-H > > > Oracle itself just to see the subprocess? We have an Alpha cluster. > > > running on OpenVMS 7.2 and Oracle 8.x.x. > > >n
 > > > Thanks,  > > > Roose  > J > That is if you want to do it progamatically.  In DCL it is fairly simple >  > help show process /subprocess  >  >  > $ spawn/nowait @loop+ > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process MAUSTIN_1 spawned= > $m > $ sh procj > I > 14-DEC-2002 09:06:15.82   User: MAUSTIN          Process ID:   00001239 J >                           Node: ALPHA1           Process name: "_TNA17:" > : > Terminal:           TNA17:  (Host: <removed> Port: 1658)% > User Identifier:    [USERS,MAUSTIN]. > Base priority:      4t/ > Default file spec:  SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]l > Number of Kthreads: 1  >  > Devices allocated:  TNA17: > $ sh proc/id=<pid>/subproc > I > 14-DEC-2002 09:06:19.52   User: MAUSTIN          Process ID:   00001239uJ >                           Node: ALPHA1           Process name: "_TNA17:"$ > There are 2 processes in this job: >   _TNA17: (*)r >     MAUSTIN_1s  D This would work only in the context of your own working, interactive@ process.  The original poster wants to check on a target process> outside his own interactive process.  If you wanted to see the@ sub-processes of another process, you would need to use the /ID=C qualifier as well as have GROUP or WORLD privilege depending on the. target master process.  F Technically (I believe), a sub-process is a sub-process if it's masterE PID is different from it's own PID.  So SYS$PROCESS_SCAN would be thelA programatic solution.  In straight DCL, you can use F$CONTEXT and C F$PID in conjunction with one another to the same effect (I believed= F$CONTEXT is the DCL interface to SYS$PROCESS_SCAN if I'm note
 mistaken):  B Prep with: f$context( "PROCESS", ctxt, "MASTER_PID", <target-pid>, "EQL" ) E Loop over: pid = f$pid( ctxt ) ! to see all PIDs with same MASTER_PIDe  F Hence all sub-process PIDs will be iterated over and returned (as wellD as the master process PID since it too has a PID and a MASTER_PID --! they just happen to be the same.)p   Chrisp -----  Chris Olivei chris at technologEase dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:04:05 GMTe9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>a3 Subject: Re: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ???m? Message-ID: <c8f776a54b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>o  ' In message <H76Gp5.K1J@news.boeing.com>a2           nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () wrote:   > * > In article <H74uno.GBL@news.boeing.com>,) >  nickerson@mirage.boeing.com () writes:b > J > |>I have a DS10 6/600 with VX1 card running 7.3-1 with no patches; I getG > |>the DECwindows prompt screen but can not login; behavior is that is G > |>takes the username and then the Xserver restarts & you never see a hL > |>password prompt; this is a "new" machine and has never been successfully2 > |>used with any display much less a widescreen;  > E > great - the monitor thing was a false alarm; actual problem is with:C > SYSUAF file; somewhere (and remember this is a "new" machine) the$L > startup is setting logical SYSUAF = SYSUAFALT; so even going to sys$systemM > and running $ mcr authorize does not see the sys$common:[sysexe]sysuaf.dat t > file sitting right there;    $mcr sysgenH sho uafalternate set uafalternate 0
 write current    Reboot  I This parameter is used to break into a machine for which you have consoleiH access, but no privileged passwords. That may be why it was set for you.  F There may be other explanations of course, or other mechanisms, e.g. a, logical name defined in the startup scripts.   >  > I > meanwhile for the wide screen monitor which is 1280x786 pixels; can thesI > decwindows display fullscreen; I've looked in decw$private_server_setupp+ > template and don't see anything relevant;  >  >  > --bn (Bart Nickerson)c  > nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com > (206) 662-0183 >    -- i
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:55:42 -0600e7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> 3 Subject: Re: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ???sG Message-ID: <craigberry-2E08A2.20554115122002@news.directvinternet.com>   ( In article <H76Gp5.K1J@news.boeing.com>,)  nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () wrote:t  I > meanwhile for the wide screen monitor which is 1280x786 pixels; can the-I > decwindows display fullscreen; I've looked in decw$private_server_setupv+ > template and don't see anything relevant;o  ! Try something like this in there:y  - $! Set the Resolution X and Y Size in Pixels:  $ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280 $ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 786-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:35:57 -0500c# From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net>m' Subject: Hello Kieth Parris... pls help-O Message-ID: <A1C8F9708E2A6F1A.FA72CA0ABC2964CD.549BB9041DB46A8C@lp.airnews.net>e  F Kieth, can you have a look at the HSG<>HSV shadowing thread please....   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:53:26 -0500a$ From: Hein <hein_cov@eps.zk.dec.com>. Subject: Re: How do you invalidate a dumpfile.. Message-ID: <3DFCF9D6.60F236D9@eps.zk.dec.com>   Mike Duffy wrote:> :d( >> From: matt@drumheights.removethis.com :tO > >> Is there any way to invaidate a dump file, so that VMS thinks it does  not  contain a vaild dump?v    F > In the cases where'I've needed to use PATCH on a file from AXP, I've# > copied the file to a VAX first...a   Hmmm,(G     Often one can do simple file patches with DCL, even 'binary' files.u@     Well, that does not work due to the undefined record format:K       %DCL-E-INVRFM, invalid record format for record I/O - file not openeds  $     The workaround for that is often2     DIR/FULL .. SET FILE/ATTR=(RFM=FIX,LRL=512) ..=     OPEN/READ/WRITE/SHARE file name .... binkey[0,32]=vbn ...,2     READ[/KEY=&binkey] file rec ..  rec[x,y]=z ...     WRITE/UPDA/SYMB file rec1     CLOSE file ... SET FILE/ATRR=(old attributes)1  O     My favourite solution is my simple ZAP program which is on the VMS freewaret
 CD's and web:u  H         http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/rms_tools/src/  G     I just tried it, and appears that to make it work for the DUMP file J one unfortunatly needs to fix it's FAB SHR settig from BRO to BIO. Oooops.E Sorry 'bout that. After that you can use the program to read a block.wK Bucket size, or 1 block is default, S to change buffer size. VBN 1 default.nD    Then use D for debug option. Use VMS debugger to massage the data0 in buffer pointer to by R2 EXIT debugger with GO7 Finally W to write the fixed up buffer back to the filee   Sample session below.t Hth,       Hein.a  8 Please enter filename: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP;14 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option: 1H VBN=00000001, RSZ=0200, Data: <y......................`...........>O  Dump:  00000000 7FFA6000 00000000 7FFA18B8 00000000 00001C8B 08080180 0000A079a6 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option: s102 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option:H VBN=00000002, RSZ=1400, Data: <y.............P.............,.......>O  Dump:  00000000 0000019C FFFFFFFF 80C05000 FFFFFFFF 80E78F00 FFFFFFFF 80C979D0y4 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option: e $  $i $ run xn8 Please enter filename: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSDUMP.DMP;12 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option:H VBN=00000001, RSZ=0200, Data: <y......................`...........>O  Dump:  00000000 7FFA6000 00000000 7FFA18B8 00000000 00001C8B 08080180 0000A079 4 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option: d= %DEBUG-I-SSINOTSET, system service interception is not setup,s%    defaulting to nostatic watchpointsk-          OpenVMS Alpha DEBUG Version V7.1-000e DBG> ex/octaw @r2:@r2+200t9 0000000000020000:       0000000000001C8B 080801800000A079M9 0000000000020010:       000000007FFA6000 000000007FFA18B8e9 0000000000020020:       000000007AFB7A20 000000007FFAC100e9 0000000000020030:       00001FFF0000000D 0000200080D0A000 9 0000000000020040:       00040704FCFFFFFF 0300000080C13670i9 0000000000020050:       0002C25E00000000 0000000100000000e9 0000000000020060:       20202020312E3756 0000002200000000o9 0000000000020070:       0000000000002000 0000000800000000L9 0000000000020080:       0000000000000000 0000000000000000n9 0000000000020090:       0000000000000000 0000000000000000 9 00000000000200A0:       0000000000000000 0000000000000000 9 00000000000200B0:       0000000000000000 0000000000000000e9 00000000000200C0:       0000000000000000 0000000000000000?: 00000000000200D0:       0FF7FC000FFFFFFFD FF00000080C221209 00000000000200E0:       00000000FFFFFFFC 00000000FFFFFFFDj9 00000000000200F0:       0002C25E00000400 00000000FFFFFC00d9 0000000000020100:       0000026400000000 009ABEA2CDB7FAA1. DBG> ex/date 20100/ 0000000000020100:       25-NOV-1996 21:48:05.88i DBG> gom2 (##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option:   >d   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:56:45 GMTp* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>? Subject: Re: Imagine the cacophony from playing M$oft code.<NT>d. Message-ID: <x_rL9.378181$NH2.26756@sccrnsc01>   That's a very quiet cacophony.  7 "Garth Jarvis" <gj953@hotspammail.com> wrote in messages7 news:eUbL9.28886$VA5.3041901@news1.news.adelphia.net...  >- >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:54:54 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ? Subject: Re: Imagine the cacophony from playing M$oft code.<NT>s' Message-ID: <3DFE91FE.F95B499A@fsi.net>    "Mark E. Levy" wrote:1 >   > That's a very quiet cacophony.  H Too many errors - the playback shutdown before d/a converter got loaded.   -- u David J. DachteraH dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:20:25 -0800i$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: multinetr0 Message-ID: <01C2A4F5.413D62C0@sulfer.icius.com>  / Wouldn't DELETE/ENT=(n,n,n...) get rid of them?y   Shane    -----Original Message-----( From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]( Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:33 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh Subject: multinet     
 3.3 on 6.2  . Stopped smtp and have many entries of the form  4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------5      28  SMTP-RETURN     SYSTEM            3  PendingC   How do I delete then all?q ---e& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002A   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:24:52 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>w Subject: RE: multineth9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEBLGEAA.tom@kednos.com>t  B There were too many, in the end dele *.*;* in the spool directory.   >-----Original Message-----u, >From: Shane Smith [mailto:ssmith@icius.com]) >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:20 AMh >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: RE: multinet >n >r0 >Wouldn't DELETE/ENT=(n,n,n...) get rid of them? >  >Shane >  >-----Original Message-----p) >From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]h) >Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:33 AMI >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: multinet >  >e >3.3 on 6.2p >i/ >Stopped smtp and have many entries of the formn >e5 >  Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Statush5 >  -----  -------         --------     ------  ------r6 >     28  SMTP-RETURN     SYSTEM            3  Pending >. >How do I delete then all? >---' >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.i; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).nB >Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 >s >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.r; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).hB >Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002i   ------------------------------   Date: 16 DEC 2002 20:01:44 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker6 Message-ID: <16DEC02.20014481@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  S In a previous article, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:a  L ->I'm trying to run john on a VAX 4600.  It's clocked "3 09:00:09.32" of CPU: ->time and shows no signs of stopping.  What's reasonable?  F From what I've gathered by experimenting and reading the documentationD (in the .doc directory of the source tree), if you used "incremental
 mode" E.g.   	john -i:vms sysuaf.john  = it will perform a brute force attack after it's finished withuG intelligent guessing (using combinations in password.lst I suspect) andbH won't likely terminate. If you haven't found any in 3 days I'd terminateH it and perhaps try a wordlist mode. A vax 4600 is not really fast enoughF to audit passwords using brute force. You might be better off with theG intel version on a 1Ghz+ box. Though the advantage of running it on VMSnE is you don't have to worry about the system staying up long enough to  get results.  H On an ES40/833 I've found it can crack 6 letter passwords at the rate ofE several per day and seems to get slower the longer it runs. The firsttA day it found ~ 20 so it appears to make intelligent guesses firstCF followed by brute force. I can't discern any order is uses in checking! usernames (appears random to me).i  D It's definitely an eye opening tool and lets you know what you're upD against. It's certainly going to make me rethink our password length policy.   2 Many thanks to Jean-loup for the VMS work on this.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonf7 --                karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:48:52 +0100m6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: OpenVMS software?' Message-ID: <3DFE4A44.10404@vajhoej.dk>b   Tim Smith wrote:  G >   I have a digital alpha server 3000 coming and would like to installsH > VMS 7.x on it.  This is for personal use at home.  What is the current4 > best place to order the software for hobbyist use?    D The best and probably only place would be http://www.montager.com/ !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 02:45:55 +0100t  From: "T.R." <tr303@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS software?4 Message-ID: <atlvk3$encf$1@ID-172475.news.dfncis.de>  4 "Tim Smith" <timasmith@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:a7234bb1.0212160901.3215b2ef@posting.google.com...p > Hi,u > G >   I have a digital alpha server 3000 coming and would like to installtH > VMS 7.x on it.  This is for personal use at home.  What is the current4 > best place to order the software for hobbyist use? >t > thanks >a > Timh  K I believe you're allowed to make a copy from someone, as long as you have a  (hobby) license.   -- T    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:16:49 +0000 (UTC) 5 From: "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk>e6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?/ Message-ID: <atljcg$abe$1@venus.btinternet.com>e  5 "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> wrote in messageo) news:R8JK9.352500$WL3.108672@rwcrnsc54...p7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messageo2 > news:atfjnu$13lnoo$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... >  <snip>J > Actually, another shortcoming of the PC Architecture occurred to me: theL > BIOS. I haven't looked into it, but I suppose it would be possible, with aJ > BIOS change, to make IA32 a more hospitable environment for VMS. Oh, butJ > oops, now it's not a commodity motherboard anymore. Also, who's going toG > write a VMS replacement BIOS for all of those motherboards out there? G > Nobody. Perhaps HP will write one for it's own, but now we're back to  > proprietery hardware.l >  > ML >a >a   Mark,H  I You may well be right about the commercial/political  reasons why VMS/x86n@ won't happen, but I'm not so sure about the technological stuff.  F Did you ever look inside something like a DIGITAL PWS? Which bits wereL different from the Intel/PCBU version whose name I forget?  And before that,G an AlphaStation 255 was quite PCish. The DECpc AXP 150, aka Jensen, wasrJ designed as an exercise to show just how PCish an Alpha could be if anyone was interested in PCish Alphas.h  H In more recent boxes, outside the CPU and the memory controller, whetherJ it's Alpha or x86, it's all starts with PCI and DRAM (I'm ignoring Rambus,I for now), and eventually trickles down to the delights of IDE, USB, PS/2,6J etc.  Just like on a reasonably modern PC. So not that many differences inL terms of buses and chips. Yes there may be more error syndrome registers andG structured machine checks and other niceties on an Alpha but 99% of the F world don't seem to think they need them. In fact 99% of VMS customersC probably don't know they've got them either. VMS is nice like that.h  F You're quite right that PC manufacturers and associated vendors have aJ tendency to just build stuff  and ship it as soon as it runs Windows for aI couple of hours. Is that an x86 v Alpha issue or a good vendor/bad vendorcK issue ? Ok, finding a "good" x86 vendor may be a bit tricky in reality, buttD it doesn't mean it can't be done properly. Then again, if doing 'it'J properly puts the costs back up to DIGITAL levels, is there any commercial* benefit? (Yes, if quality matters enough).  K Iirc, this basic inability for modern fast PC support chips to interoperateaI reliably led AMD to sign up for a licence to use the EV6 chip bus, and in H theory Samsung (and others?) could have made pin-compatible motherboardsD which in hardware terms could have taken either EV6 or AMD chips. OrB something like that. As far as I'm aware, no-one actually did makeF dual-purpose motherboards. If I've got my history right, this bus spec became Hypertransport.  H You mentioned BIOS. One of the things which either Fred or Hoff or maybeK both (and probably others) have been working on recently is VMS support for L ACPI. Recognise the term ACPI? It's in most (modern) PCs, in the BIOS and in- Windoze. Another difference down the tubes...-  L Basically, what I'm saying is that some of the technical obstacles you thinkL you see, may not be as big as you think, at least at the "lower cost" end ofF the market. Which is of course the market where IA64 faces its biggest commercial challenges.   regards- john   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:27:21 -0800e$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>6 Subject: RE: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?0 Message-ID: <01C2A50F.557D9060@sulfer.icius.com>  E Yes they licensed and used the EV6 protocol originally, but IIRC they D then decided to use a physically different slot for plugging the CPUD into the motherboard, which clobbered any plans to make dual purposeF MB's. Alphas used Slot B, Athlons used Slot A. I always wondered about8 that, why AMD would for no obvious reason introduce thatF incompatibility. In cynical hindsight, maybe it was imposed on them asB part of the licensing agreement for fear of cheap Alphas. ProbablyC unnecessary, in view of the other hw requirements and restrictions.i   Shane    -----Original Message-----: From: John Wallace [mailto:johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk]' Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:17 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com16 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?   [snip]> Iirc, this basic inability for modern fast PC support chips to interoperateF reliably led AMD to sign up for a licence to use the EV6 chip bus, and inH theory Samsung (and others?) could have made pin-compatible motherboardsD which in hardware terms could have taken either EV6 or AMD chips. OrB something like that. As far as I'm aware, no-one actually did makeF dual-purpose motherboards. If I've got my history right, this bus spec became Hypertransport. [snip]   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 16:39:40 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212161639.700dc160@posting.google.com>p   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DFDE15F.8030100@nospamn.sun.com>...  > @ > No, why should I bother ? If a large proportion of the posters? > on this group are correct then you will end up on Solaris/AIXe: > or HP-UX unless you are going to go for a career change. > ; > But if you want to hasten the demise of OpenVMS then looki; > no further than arming yourself with the kind of argument > > that Bob espouses next time you are in a why OpenVMS instead! > of some other UNIX OS argument.u > < > Or do you really think that Bobs 80,000 SPARC's claims are= > realistic. If you want a laugh and one at OpenVMS's expenseE > then look no further." > 	 > Regardsn > Andrew Harrison$  ? your the one who has a career change upcoming ... vms will portG< to itanium ... there are two many high end users incl. govt.9 and defense that depend on it for 24x7 and clustering and-= security and 99.9999 uptime and real-time and scalibility for = hp to just drop it ... they either support it or sell it, andr@ I don't see them selling it and losing all that revenue, and how< else would intel make their itaniums if they didn't have vms@ running the fabs, windoze, or worse yet slowaris?  I will retire= on vms Andrew, but unfortunately, you will not retire sellingr sparky ... can you say itanium?-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:36:00 -0500"0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?/ Message-ID: <3DFEB7BE.506FD3BF@vl.videotron.ca>u   Bob Ceculski wrote: A > your the one who has a career change upcoming ... vms will port.> > to itanium ... there are two many high end users incl. govt.; > and defense that depend on it for 24x7 and clustering andt< > security and 99.9999 uptime and real-time and scalibility     N Alpha provided the performance advantage that made up with the higher overheadU of VMS to provide security and reliability as well as a more intelligent file system..  N But with VMS in itanium, not only will VMS be hindered by its higher overhead,C but also hindered by IA64's non stellar performance compared to the>M competition.  To some, the performance drawback will not be important becauseBL they absolutely really need the VMS-specific features. But to others, (whichJ would be the vast majority of potential customers), they will see VMS as aL slow and expensive solution not worth the performance cost and go eslewhere.  K You can pitch VMS-Alpha against HP-UX on PA-Risc, and most certaintly pitchiN VMS against anything on IA64 because of the Alpha advantage. Remove Alpha, and$ VMS loses one of its big advantages.  M Put VMS on Hammer, and while it may not gain perforance advantage it had withs< Alpha, it would gain a cost advantage over anything on IA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:57:43 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>( Subject: RE: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <01C2A4F1.F8D2BFB0@sulfer.icius.com>  = Unless it's the application which makes the assumption. Never C underestimate the potential stupidity of a Unix programmer. (Or anynC programmer for that matter. We've all done stuff that looked pretty ) stupid next time we looked at it, right?)    Shanet   -----Original Message-----' From: Z [mailto:zarlenga@conan.ids.net]u) Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 8:01 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS    . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:3 : In article <uvkqdafc85s30b@corp.supernews.com>, Za  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:% :> Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> wrote:oD :> : Right... why settle for that when you can have whatever vms end date" :> : is??? i forget, 38,000 A.D.?? :> 2> :> Because when you move _off_ VMS, all the date/time routines :> need to be rewritten. :> o5 :> VMS's routines, formats, etc are industry-uniqiue,> :> o@ :> Does even the most dyed-in-the-wool VMS supporter here REALLY? :> think that VSM will be around in 2106, when the C RTL time()t
 :> overflows?p  7 : I am convinced there will be C date problems in 2038.n  : Not on any code being ported to VMS, which was the context of the thread.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 02 22:46:22 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)n( Subject: Re: Porting from Sun to OpenVMS) Message-ID: <dgZeMqyF$HMM@elias.decus.ch>j  m In article <9059bf6b.0212160604.133c6bc9@posting.google.com>, jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell) writes:gF >> ... and, in some cases, you'll save time and money by ripping out aE >> unixism and supplanting with a VMSism.  The real "reality" is that F >> you'll likely do a "first level port to get everything running" andC >> never comes the day when you then "re-architect to fit OpenVMS".iE >> And, borrowing from another thread, your users will dis VMS as thec >> root of the problem.f > E > Depending on how we find the code and its performance, we will knowED > what it will take to sell the re-engineering.  Obviously, the factE > that they are considering running it on VMS is a good thing!!!  The C > answer is educating management as to the problems and benefits ofhG > running ported code on VMS.  The portability issue to be able to moveIG > off of VMS is a reason to tread carefully on making platform specifichH > changes.  Selling that we can do a simple port to VMS is important!!! F > Selling the benefits to optimize the application for the platform is > the next step.  ? Hmm. Since someone mentioned I/O in another response, here's and? example from a couple of decades ago. Having ported a messagingi> application from RSX-11 too VMS, a customer was baffled by theA way perfomance decreased over time. The answer IIRC was that with : the port to VMS, RMS-11 marked deleted indexed records for> delete, leaving a few bytes used, rather than eradicating them< completely. Since in those days, close attention was paid to< optimizing record sizes to fit in buckets (certainly in that: application), the result was an ever growing indexed file.  1 It's often the small things like that which bite.f  = (PS, it's a pity that the functionality of recovering deleteds@ records, which is why I believed it was done that way, was never' implemented, at least to my knowledge.)x  @ Someone correct me if my memory fails me on the details, please.   -- r
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 12:51:34 -0800' From: taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974)t( Subject: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard= Message-ID: <f948cf20.0212161251.65df0b85@posting.google.com>y  E I've a problem with this function : smg$create_pasteboard and i begine	 with smg. B When i examine the return value of the pasteboard creation, i seem& that the a pasteboard already exist !!E How can i get the id of the existing pasteboard or force the creatione a the pasteboard !!o   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2002 22:17:10 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)i? Message-ID: <3dfe50e5$0$94307$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>t  a In <OnTI9.5315$X%3.4507@news.bellsouth.net> "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> writes:e  I >There is a top secret way to do the S/N load.  It's too DANGEROUS to say,
 >more. . .    : Sure... I know. But you need the <key> to go DANGEROUS ;-)   W/    7 >"Wilko Bulte" <wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl> wrote in message 9 >news:3df3c689$0$2229$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl...wE >> In <3DF1AA48.1041166@kolumbus.fi> Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= " ><Veli.Korkko@kolumbus.fi> writes: >> >> >Manser wrote:Y >> >> 1 >> >> nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in messageu: >news:<2178d61f.0212051622.1901f7e0@posting.google.com>...L >> >> > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message< >news:<4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...F >> >> > > In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>5 >> >> > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:c	 >> >> > >>H >> >> > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote inD >message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...J >> >> > > > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com> >> >> >> Example:# >> >> HSZ> set this prompt="HSZ02>"oK >> >> Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This controller cannotr >be used >>H >> Bad news, you probably at some time have suffered a disconnect of the4 >> lithium battery that powers the non-volatile RAM. >>L >> There is no field-tool to reprogram the serial#, as the serial# were used >> to verify warranty claims.n >>4 >> All HSZ50 are out of warranty of course by now ;) >> >> W?n >> >> -- & >> |   / o / /_  _   wilko@FreeBSD.org >> |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte       --% |   / o / /_  _   		wilko@FreeBSD.orgf |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte				    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2002 22:17:59 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)2? Message-ID: <3dfe5117$0$94295$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>>  W In <2178d61f.0212090249.78ac1d3b@posting.google.com> nmanser@progis.de (Manser) writes:o  p >wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte) wrote in message news:<3df3c689$0$2229$e4fe514c@dreader6.news.xs4all.nl>...g >> In <3DF1AA48.1041166@kolumbus.fi> Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <Veli.Korkko@kolumbus.fi> writes:a >>   >> >Manser wrote:s >> >> k >> >> nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote in message news:<2178d61f.0212051622.1901f7e0@posting.google.com>...b >> >> > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4cfd969e4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...F >> >> > > In message <2178d61f.0212011011.3a02a8e7@posting.google.com>5 >> >> > >           nmanser@progis.de (Manser) wrote:o	 >> >> > >  >> >> > > > Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<0517399d4b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...J >> >> > > > > In message <2178d61f.0211281413.31cbdaa4@posting.google.com> >>   >> >> Example:# >> >> HSZ> set this prompt="HSZ02>"oS >> >> Error 4090: Module has invalid serial number.  This controller cannot be usedt >> aI >> Bad news, you probably at some time have suffered a disconnect of the i4 >> lithium battery that powers the non-volatile RAM. >> oL >> There is no field-tool to reprogram the serial#, as the serial# were used >> to verify warranty claims.i >> o4 >> All HSZ50 are out of warranty of course by now ;) >> e >> W?e    D >when i bought the controller, and when i powered it up, i could not/ >get access to the CLI, (see my postings below)-E >so i disconected the lithium battery for 30 min. and reconnected it.tE >then i could get access to the CLI. (the collegue of the vendor told-	 >me that)-  ; Silly idea, disconnecting the Li battery nukes your serial#h   --% |   / o / /_  _   		wilko@FreeBSD.orgm |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte				4   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 02 22:27:50 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)h* Subject: Re: Problems with Support-Website) Message-ID: <vk6rN0ORIzdI@elias.decus.ch>   | In article <3dfdc1e7$0$25426$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>, "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes: > Hi!u > L > Is it just me, who is unable to reach http://ftp.support.compaq.com or ist. > the site down, or has its location changed ? >   K Today I could reach the V7.3 and V7.3-1 addresses that have been bookmarkedsE for a long time but with no display apart from the headings. This wascK from both Alpha Netscape 3.03 (with Javascript disabled), and from Netscapee> 4.77 on NT (Javascript enabled, but filtered by our firewall).  E It was frustrating, as I wanted to review some cover letters/readmes.r --  
 Paul Sture Switzerlandm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 06:13:50 +0200u2 From: Mike Rechtman <rechtman-unspam-@tzora.co.il>* Subject: Re: Problems with Support-Website( Message-ID: <3DFEA47E.10305@tzora.co.il>   Paul Sture wrote:h~ > In article <3dfdc1e7$0$25426$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>, "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes: >  >>Hi!d >>L >>Is it just me, who is unable to reach http://ftp.support.compaq.com or ist. >>the site down, or has its location changed ? >> >  > M > Today I could reach the V7.3 and V7.3-1 addresses that have been bookmarked G > for a long time but with no display apart from the headings. This was5M > from both Alpha Netscape 3.03 (with Javascript disabled), and from Netscape @ > 4.77 on NT (Javascript enabled, but filtered by our firewall). > G > It was frustrating, as I wanted to review some cover letters/readmes.M  9 Just tried it from home, and saw a README within seconds.$? (Unfortunately the fact that the text was black on a dark-blue l0 background did'nt make it extremely readable...)   Mike.C   -- 9  & New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:6 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htm= Other useful links at http://eisner.decusserve.org/~rechtman/nE ---------------------------------------------------------------------iE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.p? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*tE Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337sC    "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"WE ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:31:28 +0100t: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de>* Subject: Re: Problems with Support-Website/ Message-ID: <atkh2u$ifl2@doiweb4.volkswagen.de>    Ren Schelbaum wrote:t > Hi!i > L > Is it just me, who is unable to reach http://ftp.support.compaq.com or ist. > the site down, or has its location changed ? >  > Ren >  >   ? I've encountered the same, it es VERY slow,  the same for e.g. a xfer.support.compaq.coml   -- r  + mit freundlichen Gren | with best regardsa    Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam$ Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  E mailto:it-ingteam(at)t-online.de | mailto:rohwedder(at)decus.decus.deh- mailto:extern.karl.rohwedder(at)volkswagen.de-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:10:18 +0100l$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...D1 Message-ID: <vDpL9.6611$CY4.2497@news.get2net.dk>k   Simon Clubley wrote:G > Anyone care to comment on the following quote from Scott Stallard, in:+ > the first issue of Customer First Times ?c >,K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------h >1B > As far as I know, we have not lost one Business Critical SystemsF > customer due to the Compaq-HP merger, which is a ringing endorsementE > for our roadmaps, the dedication and caliber of our people, and the;D > excellence of our products. The extremely positive feedback I haveB > received at recent customer events and from the industry analystG > community confirms that our strategy, business model and technologies(> > are the right ones at the right time. We remain committed toD > delivering on our roadmaps, increasing the value we offer you, and3 > offering the richest growth path in the industry.] >u
 > [Cut...] >e > Sincerely, > Scott Stallard > Senior Vice President  > Business Critical Systemsr > K > -------------------------------------------------------------------------v >o > Simon.   Well,   L "As far as I know, IBM has not landed one new customer for AS400 in the past 12 months."  Dr. Dweeb. c.o.v.  I Actually, the beauty of the english language is that one can come up with L content free messages that appear to have content.  This is another example.F Scott does not even need to lie.  Indeed I did not lie in my statementK above.   Scott's statement might even be true.  My statement might be true.s3 But they are useless statements even if it is true.1  K One of the great losses of the decline in the quality of education, is thatnG people have grown up without the ability to deconstruct prose, with the2K result that people accept this codswallop (technical term).  What Scott DIDjG NOT SAY was that "HP had not lost a single customer due to the merger".- There is a world of difference.v  H Anyhow, it takes time to migrate mission critical systems away from VMS.I For example, take stock exchanges.  Have many of you any idea how long it D would take to move everything off of VMS at a VMS exchange (same forK Tandem/IBM exchanges)?  Trust me, the job is so huge it is to be avoided attB all costs - and even if, let us say DB decided tomorrow to convertH everything, I would estimate that it will take over a decade to completeL because it would be a very slow, piecemeal effort.  DB no longer support VMSI clients for Xetra trading (Sun & NT IIRC) and this pissed off quite a fewiI customers, but they are still a customer.  I can think of more than 1 BCS6L customer who is not actively devloping or enhancing their VMS systems and inK the slow process of migration away from VMS.  This statement of fact is not1" in conflict with Scotts statement.   Am I being clear ??c  
 Dr. Dweeb.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 17:23:20 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...i/ Message-ID: <3DFE5247.27C61C40@vl.videotron.ca>a  D > > As far as I know, we have not lost one Business Critical SystemsH > > customer due to the Compaq-HP merger, which is a ringing endorsement > > for our roadmaps,   M Yeah yeah. "As far as I know" is quite critical in there Mr Stallard. PerhapsnJ you are admitting you are out of the loop with no clue on what losses yourL statements have caused ? Remember the "we expect VMS customers to eventually migrate to HP-UX statement ?".  5 And that says nothing about high performance systems.,    K And that says nothing about sales. They may  not have lost any BCS existingSL customers yet, but have they lost bids for new systems ? How many of the BCSK customers have begun long term transition plans that Stallard wouldn't evenaB know about because maintenance contracts are still being renewed ?  M The seeds that Stallrd planted on May 7th will take a long term to have their  full effect.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:35:46 -0500o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: TCPIP PINGt/ Message-ID: <3DFD03B4.F1245CE1@vl.videotron.ca>s   Rob Heyes wrote: > E > Is there a way to do just four pings within TCPIP, like in Windows?b  $ On TCPIP 5.3 the default is 4 pings.  J On TCPIP 5.0, it seems to be infinite. The documentation (TCPIP HELP PING)K states that you can use /NUMBER_PACKETS= but that switch works neither fromS- inside TCPIP or when you invoke PING at the $t   However:  ' ping -c 4 host.name  will do the trick..   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:10:07 +0000 (UTC) / From: "Rob Heyes" <robert.heyes@btinternet.com># Subject: Re: TCPIP PINGE/ Message-ID: <atj24f$9ph$1@helle.btinternet.com>r   Star, thankya very kindly.  ' I like this newsgroup. Quick responses!.   I'm also learning HP-UX.  0 Long live VMS, thats all I can say at the moment  = "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in messageO) news:3DFD03B4.F1245CE1@vl.videotron.ca...l > Rob Heyes wrote: > >EG > > Is there a way to do just four pings within TCPIP, like in Windows?0 >0& > On TCPIP 5.3 the default is 4 pings. >.L > On TCPIP 5.0, it seems to be infinite. The documentation (TCPIP HELP PING)H > states that you can use /NUMBER_PACKETS= but that switch works neither from/ > inside TCPIP or when you invoke PING at the $n >s
 > However: >u) > ping -c 4 host.name  will do the trick.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 03:24:48 GMT01 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>0/ Subject: Using Legato as a tape-backup solutionF2 Message-ID: <3DFE966C.FFF2AC5F@firstdbasource.com>  H This is not to ensight riots or holy wars, but is anyone currently usingB the Legato product for their VMS backup strategy and what are yourC experiences in being able to restore - in a timely manner --  those G backups.  My organization is in the process of re-evaluating the use of0C SLS -- in a 100TB+ environment.  As I stated in a previous post, it0C takes "a while" to backup that amount of data.  Luckily raw storage03 capacity and used storage are 2 different things :)0  D Interesting note.. they have a prominent OpenVMS button on the frontD page of their website, but selecting it results in BAD REQUEST using  Netscape 4.7, but works with IE.  1 a direct quote from their page "looks" promising:F  B "HP Open VMS customers require industry-leading storage management< solution options that support both direct attach and complexA heterogeneous fibre based SAN environment. We're pleased that our B customers have a robust solution available to them from a reliableH industry leader such as LEGATO, that can help reduce network traffic and1 improve overall backup and recovery performance.".D                              Mark Gorham, vice president, HP OpenVMS Software Group   -- 8 Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:47:56 +0100-+ From: Arne Bergseth <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com>:' Subject: Re: Using old VRT19-HA Monitord1 Message-ID: <M5qL9.1760$CG6.30413@news4.e.nsc.no>c   Jack Trachtman wrote:   8 >Can anyone tell me if I can use an old VRT19-HA monitor6 >with one of the newer graphics cards (some version of >a Number 9 card)? >    >y2 There has been others experimenting with this, seeD http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/4467/fixedsync.html   There is two sides of this:e- *  Getting the synchronization signals right.-,       This involves getting the cable right.6       There are companies selling cables and adapters,'       or you can do your own soldering. B       The VRT19 usually expect the synchronization signal together       with the green color. A       The high density 15 pin connectors (SVGA) normally send the./       synchronization signals on separate pins.o9       It is possible to make circuits to combine signals,2?       or in the case of the VRT19-HA it may be possible to sendbB       in the sync signals on their own wire. (They are going to be9       separated when they get inside the monitor anyway).   2 *  Getting agreement upon what frequencies to use.=       This involves finding which frequency and format can bet       processed by the monitor.t@       The VRT19-HA is usually running 1280x1024 at 66Hz or 72Hz,=       but one site says that it can also run 1152x870 at 75Hz   0       Then how to get the video card to do that.=       Here you are depending both upon the hardware designer,J.       and the programmer that made the driver.?       In VMS there is SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COMl:       or  .TEMPLATE if you have not been tampering before.  I I tried yesterday to get a VRC21-HA to work with a PWS 500au with a Elsa b@ Gloria card PBXGK-BB, but did not get it right on the first try.  D These monitors will not present VGA as used by the console, but SRM  always have the serial option.  % Please tell me if you get it working.    Regards,    Arne Bergseth  D http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Foothills/4467/fixedsync.html  4 >The monitor takes an RGB cable (only 3 wires).  Any/ >idea where to get a conversion cable?  Thanks.  >  - >-   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 12:34:34 -0800 From: erich.sigwarth@planet.nl& Subject: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem< Message-ID: <cfbfed4c.0212161234.cb8e1b9@posting.google.com>  F Environment: AS DS20E with an ext. DLT tape unit (TZ88); VMS 7.3-1 and all0 relevant patches. A When we doing a DIR to the tape after a backup, we see this errore, message very short after the DIR is started.8 %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening $1$MKB0:[]*.*;* as input/ -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failede2 -SYSTEM-F-TAPEPOSLOST, magnetic tape position lost   The first (backup) file shown.F When we do a BACKUP/LIST  tape, it takes a lot of time, but all backup files6
 are shown.C When we do a DIR on another DS20E under VMS7.2-2 (TZ87 or TZ88) allj	 files arew shown.  ) Is this a common problem under VMS 7.3-x.D Can somebody do this test to?s (BACKUP to a tape, then a DIR) "   Erich Sigwarth   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 00:07:41 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>d* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem? Message-ID: <5722fba54b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>d  ; In message <cfbfed4c.0212161234.cb8e1b9@posting.google.com>u)           erich.sigwarth@planet.nl wrote:v  H > Environment: AS DS20E with an ext. DLT tape unit (TZ88); VMS 7.3-1 and > alln > relevant patches. C > When we doing a DIR to the tape after a backup, we see this errora. > message very short after the DIR is started.: > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening $1$MKB0:[]*.*;* as input1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedf4 > -SYSTEM-F-TAPEPOSLOST, magnetic tape position lost >   > The first (backup) file shown.H > When we do a BACKUP/LIST  tape, it takes a lot of time, but all backup > filesn > are shown.E > When we do a DIR on another DS20E under VMS7.2-2 (TZ87 or TZ88) allt > files are  > shown. > + > Is this a common problem under VMS 7.3-x.  > Can somebody do this test to?i! > (BACKUP to a tape, then a DIR) e >  > Erich Sigwarth  " Have you tried more than one tape?  , does the tape unit record a burst of errors?  I My suspicion is that the first block of the saveset was detected bad, and J backup is using its recovery mechanisms (second copy, redundancy group) toK recover the information. The bad block might be causing lost position undera0 DIR, which doesn't have any recovery mechanisms.     -- o
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:58:49 GMTI. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)I Subject: Re: VMS73_SYS05 (& VMS731_SYS02) kills dce, pathworks, goldfax ?m3 Message-ID: <ZG8L9.42087$TA6.451003@news.chello.at>c  i In article <ataefm$6ff$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:  >tG >> In article <aspt4c$mdp$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, "Chris Sharman" % ><chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:.L >> >I installed the VMS73_SYS05 patch two weeks ago & rebooted. On rebootingL >> >dce, pathworks & goldfax were all broken (dce fixed with another supportM >> >call, no luck yet with the others). Talking to DPD, suppliers of Goldfax,hM >> >they've got a similar problem with another customer, who's identified theeL >> >VMS731_SYS02 patch as causing his problem, which was released at roughly >the6 >> >same time, and is presumably a very similar patch. >> >H >> >Is anyone aware of any problem with this patch ? Is there a fix ? Is >backing >> >out advisable ?  >>< >"Peter LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message- >news:04nI9.33974$A9.507750@news.chello.at...-J >> We read about problems with this (both) patch(es) some days ago here in >COV.hL >> That's why I noted these patches as On-Hold (though they are still not !) >> in my very private ECO list.D >>K >> I must however admit that I have VMS73_SYS05 already installed on my PWSoK >> and I so far haven't seen problems on this machine (though my DNEWS NNTPnK >> server still dies every night at ~2am with memory exceeded - but because.L >> I installed DNEWS some days after VMS73_SYS05 I can't blame the ECO yet). >oL >I've still heard nothing 'official' about VMS73_SYS05, although there was a' >VMS731_SYS02 problem which I'd missed.e  K In the meantime a modification to the release notes of VMS73_SYS05 arrived.mL It mentions problems caused by a change im memory allocation (eg. in BRKTHR)C and that you better increase CTLPAGES until the next ECO comes out.l  F >I've a workaround for the important faxes, so we've waited to reboot. > M >Pathworks, according to the pathworks group in the Netherlands, should neverlG >have worked, because it should be configured for 32 users, even thoughoI >there's only 1 licence. The fact that it's worked for years like that isiF >apparently some kind of miracle, and the fact that it's now broken is' >nothing to do with anything, they say.a >uK >TSC (UK) has advised me to back out VMS73_SYS05, as it's implicated by theoL >timing. There also seem to be one or two other anecdotes, here & elsewhere.I >I've a reboot window for Saturday night, so I'll be backing it out then.r  ( Maybe try the CTLPAGES approach first...  9 eg. http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/934.htmi   -- o Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERU% Network and OpenVMS system specialista E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:51:29 -0500A# From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net>m< Subject: Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSVO Message-ID: <00EC8C214475F103.3A065EC666EB443E.C332747410316734@lp.airnews.net>g  J     It seems like it would be easier than this.... any chance that OpenVMSI engineering or Storage will come in on this.... this is an oppurtunity toh sell more hardware.... ?    5 "David Harrold" <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote in message62 news:l4csvu8ip7ln4mdgt6c247j571im2e7o0t@4ax.com...H > On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:13:57 -0500, kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ) wrote: > >hI > >We have several EMA16000 and EVA systems.  We're thinking about VolumeiF > >Shadowing between the EMA and EVA systems.  In that case, where theG > >Volume Shadowing Doc Set says that the target disks (VMS 7.2-2) muste, > >have the same number of logical blocks... > >gJ > >Now, given that the EMA HSG80 system can allocate space as two mirroredG > >36 gb storageworks drives as a unit, how does one insure that a unit.J > >published to the SAN from an EVA has the same number of logical blocks. >'L > Well, I'm considering doing that in reverse.  I'll allocate a volume (sizeK > less than the corresponding device on the EMA) on the EVA first, find thebK > number of blocks for that volume and then partition the device on the EMA  to > be that same size. >mK > The other option would be to use LDDRIVER to create a logical disk on the- EMAaL > device that is the same size as the EVA volume.  Then mirror the LD device and, > the EVA device.a >o > Hope that helps, >e > Dave Harrold >f >h >a >tL ............................................................................ ..E > David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at 
 aurora.orgK > Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 K >                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634>I > Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  > 3031 W. Montana Street > Milwaukee, WI 53215o   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 02 22:31:58 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)tI Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions ofo) Message-ID: <by95HljxFbNb@elias.decus.ch>l  ` In article <BA231416.24B5%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:K > On 12/15/02 4:10 PM, in article eWN7e0uKT9pL@elias.decus.ch, "Paul Sture" ! > <p_sture@elias.decus.ch> wrote:- > B >> In article <BA21D9DA.2470%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron# >> <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:,P >>> Attention : Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMS >>> through VMS 7.3-1. >> iH >> Never heard of MME. I severely doubt that what you say above is true.< >> Does "all versions of VMS though VMS 7.3-1" include V3.0? >> ,G >> Please give us an official Compaq/hp reference, rather than your ownh >> email address.h >> rD >> Sorry if I sound sceptical, but I have successfully restored fromC >> multi-volume backups on many occasions, all the way from V3.0 toeC >> V7.3-1. I have never seen the errors you quote, except when theyn >> have been true. >> - >> References please. K > I will be more than happy to provide references. Please let me gather the J > information. It would be improper for me to provide the names of the VMSH > Backup Engineers that I worked with for about 4 months diagnosing thisN > problem. If you are patient for when the patch is releases would the releaseL > notes be sufficient reference for you? Otherwise the only references I canK > provide are emails between myself and the VMS engineers involved with thei/ > dumps of tape volume headers as test results.  > ) Thanks for the update. Much appreciated. e --  
 Paul Sture Switzerlando   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:40:16 GMTB+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>ST Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of	VMS	VMSVMS2 Message-ID: <BA2244CD.2490%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  F On 12/15/02 6:57 AM, in article bIEWtBBoQv3D@eisner.encompasserve.org,0 "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  A > In article <BA21D9DA.2470%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameront" > <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:O >> Attention : Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMSu >> through VMS 7.3-1.  >> b >> OVERVIEWp >> uN >> A serious bug in Compaq/HPs BACKUP utility which causes backup savesets onO >> multiple tape volumes to be improperly written causing restore operations to   >> fail with one of two errors : >>  iM >> %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, <tape-device>:[000000]*.*; is not the start of a save  >> set n >> or M >> %BACKUP-I-WRONGVOL, <tape-device>:[000000].; is not the next volume in the  >> set u > 0 > Even when the backup was create with /VERIFY ? >  > As everybody should do.j > 4 > Presumably not when it was followed with /COMPARE. > = > As the more paranoid will do, using a different tape drive.  > H > Although years ago on another operating system I used a tape drive forH > backups followed by compare.  The tape drive hardware was defective in8 > a manner that erased the tape on a successful read :-)  I The problem occurs in the mounting of subsequent volumes for write, wherenJ the backup image must rewrite the VOL1 Header. With MME it writes the VOL1D header incorrectly which prohibits the backup image from sucessfully5 mounting the volume for reads in subsequent restores.t  L Since the /VERIFY option is done right after writing, and does not involve aK volume remount, it will not exhibit the error. However a /COMPARE operationnL is done after the writing of the backup and will attempt to mount the second? volume after the first, and here the volume checking will fail.h  L In summary. If you did a /VERIFY it will not exhibit the problem even thoughF you will still have it. However if you do a /COMPARE after your backupC completes, and you do have the MME problem, you will get one of theh following errors : mK %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, <tape-dev>:[000000]*.*; is not the start of a save setd or eK %BACKUP-I-WRONGVOL, <tape-dev>:[000000].; is not the next volume in the sets   Jeff Cameron www.jcameron.com/vms/-   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 02 01:10:04 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)uM Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMSc) Message-ID: <eWN7e0uKT9pL@elias.decus.ch>c  ` In article <BA21D9DA.2470%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:N > Attention : Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMS > through VMS 7.3-1.  E Never heard of MME. I severely doubt that what you say above is true.l9 Does "all versions of VMS though VMS 7.3-1" include V3.0?1  D Please give us an official Compaq/hp reference, rather than your own email address.  A Sorry if I sound sceptical, but I have successfully restored fromc@ multi-volume backups on many occasions, all the way from V3.0 to@ V7.3-1. I have never seen the errors you quote, except when they have been true.    References please.   -- i
 Paul Sture Switzerland.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Dec 2002 21:44:17 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.134848.killspam.00ac (Wayne Sewell)sM Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMSs. Message-ID: <$qFKUYi5A4PV@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  ` In article <BA21D9DA.2470%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:     > I > Known third party software products that use MME are Software Partners'eG > TapeSys, and MTI's TAPEControl. Some of Compaq/HP's integrated backup1K > solutions also use MME. Contact the support for your software product for  > absolute determination.Z >     K Really?  I did not know that tapesys uses mme.  Since I've been the primary.G tapesys developer since sometime in 1996 I probably *should* know this.m    L Tapesys uses straight vms backup with its *own* wrappers around it.  It doesO not use mme.  A search of sp32_master_disk:[sp32_master.tapesys.sources...] forrB mme gets no hits except for extraneous ones such as "immediately".  O Volume switching at end of reel, including dynamic allocation of reels from therK tapesys database, is handled by the tapesys processes sysbak and sbpoll, oni request from vmsbu.  f  M On systems running vms 6.x or ealier, tapesys runs vmsbu.exe as a subroutine,yM using a standard backup command line.  No mme-related qualifiers are used, ifh such exist.i    K On 7.x systems, tapesys uses the backup API.  No mme-related parameters are  passed in the parameter list.t       -- oO =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxl: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)eO ===============================================================================pP Larry(sniffing):"I smell something awful." Moe:"Yeah, well don't brag about it."   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 02 22:56:21 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)eE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem] ) Message-ID: <p9Wi+uGQlyrW@elias.decus.ch>i  ` In article <veorvu01l3dig3tlo4fapd5oedgdfk79m0@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F > On 16 Dec 2002 07:13:23 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  >>H >>	Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A fellow about@ >>	my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons aboutD >>	TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  ID >>	remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking theE >>	correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeowner7H >>	finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and matching it up > - > It was always the PL702 line oscillator ;-)e > H My memories of TV repairmen included much slapping the top of the set toH see if that fixed a dry joint or bad connection, and indeed when my muchH prized  hifi packed up about 1976, I simply went over the likely circuitF boards with a soldering iron to fix possible suspected joints. Yup, we3 got circuit diagrams back then with a lot of stuff.2  D But on the first point, cue a cartoon from the early '70s. A pictureB of 2 guy peering into the engine compartment of a TV repair truck.F Hammer in hand, the caption was "Which bit do we hit to get it going?" -- 3
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:05:26 -0500e' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>NE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]t= Message-ID: <6oplta.m2t.ln@cc49395-b.wodhvn01.mi.comcast.net>l   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > I > It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now synonomous6 > with board-swapping. >   G Actually, repair == board_swapping predates the PC revolution.  When I oJ first started with DEC, I was trained as a board-swapper.  The "old guys" K looked down their noses at the new people, saying that a real man did chip a	 swapping.w  L I pointed out we new guys did the same thing that the old guys did, just at H a higher level.  I asked the old guys when the last time they "fixed" a . chip.  They shut up pretty soon after that.              Stu)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.695 ************************