1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 17 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 696       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... $ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks$ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disksM Re: 3X-DEGXA-SA and -TA technical info/supported platform available anywhere? & 64-bit Sybase/HP deal, but not for VMS# Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times ? Common x86/Alpha architecture, was: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming 2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphaJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph7 DCL_ROUTINES.COM (was: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard)  DCL_SMG_DEMO.COM% Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)+ Error Regarding LIB$TABLE_PARSE RTL Routine / Re: Error Regarding LIB$TABLE_PARSE RTL Routine @ Re: FORTRAN90, CXML library, IEEE float & DENORM_RESULTS problem( Re: Holes in my CSWS (apache) access_log Re: HSG80 cache performance  Re: HSG80 cache performance  Re: HSG80 cache performance  RE: HSG80 cache performance  Re: multinet RE: multinet Re: OpenVMS software?  Re: OpenVMS software? 3 Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD 7 Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD 7 Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  PL/1 announcment# Re: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard @ Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)- question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library 1 Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library 6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP... Tracking down a TOP CPU Problem # Re: Tracking down a TOP CPU Problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem ! Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem B VMS software (was: RE: Why does BACKUP/IMAGE need write access...)@ Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions ofK Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of	VMS	VMSVMS D Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMS( [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSL 0.9.7 beta 6 released< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:40:59 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...; Message-ID: <01KQ501D2SDE9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   I > What if VMS licensing was made FREE on older, less capable systems, VAX J > and/or Alpha?  No hobbyist restrictions.  Regular production quality VMSH > licenses for free, but only on old hardware.  Would this be worthwhile > for anyone?   G Yes, for very, very many.  But not for HP.  That's why it won't happen.   H For many, many real-world applications, new hardware is not essential.  H Many folks run high-hit-rate WWW servers on VMS on a VAXstation 3100/38 G or whatever.  (Think of the millions which have been spent by PHBs who  D think they need a "server" to run a WWW server.)  Many, but not all H VMS-based businesses (both current and those which would spring up like G mushrooms if such licenses were available) could run perfectly well on  C such older hardware.  This would severely impact HP's sales of VMS  H licenses and perhaps of new hardware as well.  (If one has to shell out I a lot of money for licenses, might as well buy new hardware with support  	 as well.)   I Sure, there are high-end businesses which need the latest and greatest.   H But what were they running on 10 years ago and will the typical startup  business be that big?   H What HP needs to do (and I've repeated this suggestion many times, alas H with no positive response---Sue and Mark, are you listening AND can you D do something about it?) is to offer normal commercial licenses at a H reduced fee for NEW businesses.  Say, 5% of the annual profit.  If this C fee is more than the normal price, the customer is free to pay the  
 normal price.   H What would happen?  Established businesses would continue to pay, so NO F LOSS TO HP is involved, neither potential nor real.  MANY, MANY folks A who, for cost reasons, couldn't otherwise consider VMS for a NEW  G business which might or might not get off the ground would go with VMS. G If the business fails, HP at worst have lost ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and at  G best have made a small profit.  If the business takes off, it will buy  2 normal licenses AT THE NORMAL PRICE in the future.  I The point is, the world has changed from the old days when license costs  H were negligible compared to other costs of a company, even though those G costs might have been much higher in the past.  Hardware was MUCH more  E expensive, and of course less powerful, so one needed more to do the  F same work.  This means more employees (probably the main cost of most H companies) and more related costs such as electricity, rent etc.  These G days, especially with flat-rate internet connections via DSL available  H for a negligible fee, one guy with a workstation can start up an online E business, with essentially zero cost.  Sure, if it takes off he will  D have to expand, but not at the beginning.  If, for cost reasons, he E can't go with VMS from the start, he will go with something else and   probably not move to VMS later.   B This would mean that many more folks could collect real-world VMS = experience, which can only be good for HP in the longer term.    WHY NOT?   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:24:16 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks ; Message-ID: <01KQ4ZTUTK0Y9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   G > I've got a very strange situation here with VMS V7.2-6C2.  I'm trying H > to use BACKUP/IMAGE to copy one disk to another; I'm not going throughC > a saveset here.  The BACKUP fails with the error mentioned in the 
 > subject.  6  CLUSTER,  unsuitable cluster factor for 'device-name'  &   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility  L   Explanation:  During an attempt to initialize an output volume, the BackupJ                 utility found that the cluster factor was too large or too/                 small for the specified device.   G   User Action:  If the input is a save set, use the BACKUP/LIST command H                 to determine the volume initialization parameters of theJ                 input volumes. Refer to the description of the DCL commandD                 INITIALIZE, determine a suitable cluster factor, andK                 initialize the output volumes using the INITIALIZE command. F                 Then, reenter the command specifying the /NOINITIALIZE                 qualifier.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:16:01 -0800' From: ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks = Message-ID: <a55b951e.0212170716.626eef42@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KQ4ZTUTK0Y9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...I > > I've got a very strange situation here with VMS V7.2-6C2.  I'm trying J > > to use BACKUP/IMAGE to copy one disk to another; I'm not going throughE > > a saveset here.  The BACKUP fails with the error mentioned in the  > > subject. > 8 >  CLUSTER,  unsuitable cluster factor for 'device-name' > ( >   Facility:     BACKUP, Backup Utility > N >   Explanation:  During an attempt to initialize an output volume, the BackupL >                 utility found that the cluster factor was too large or too1 >                 small for the specified device.  > I >   User Action:  If the input is a save set, use the BACKUP/LIST command J >                 to determine the volume initialization parameters of theL >                 input volumes. Refer to the description of the DCL commandF >                 INITIALIZE, determine a suitable cluster factor, andM >                 initialize the output volumes using the INITIALIZE command. H >                 Then, reenter the command specifying the /NOINITIALIZE >                 qualifier.    Thank you, but that much I knew.  F What I *didn't* know was that the disks in use were NOT 18GB, 36GB, orD larger.  Indeed, they were 9GB disks, which wanted a cluster size of 18.   F I just find it curious that the INITIALIZE worked, but BACKUP belched.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 08:49:39 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)V Subject: Re: 3X-DEGXA-SA and -TA technical info/supported platform available anywhere?= Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0212170849.43b205ff@posting.google.com>   ; Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote   > Rich Jordan wrote:A > > The new DEGXA gigabit cards referenced in the V7.3-1 docs and G > > apparently discussed at DECUS as the new/better replacement for the G > > current rather slow cards are supposed to be orderable, but are not  > > yet delivering.  ....  > > ? > > Is there in fact any available tech info on these cards, or D > > information on which platforms (specifically DS10/20/20e/40, theF > > 'older' EV6x Alphaservers) might also be supported with these? ... > > E > We are in the process of ordering one for a DS20E, the price is 1/3  > of the DEGPA.  > " > Karl Rohwedder		iT-Ingenieurteam& > Ellernbruch 11		D-38112 Braunschweig  D Assuming you get it soon, please let us know how it works.  We notedF the price difference; our distributor has that info, just no tech infoD on it; not even the 3Com model number.  Of course the customer wantsC info now so they can make a decision  in the next couple weeks, but 1 we'd have to know what systems it will work in...    Thanks!    Rich Jordan  CCS    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:18:16 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> / Subject: 64-bit Sybase/HP deal, but not for VMS E Message-ID: <IisL9.7103$s_.3251@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   4 http://news.com.com/2100-1001-978037.html?tag=fd_top   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:42:22 -0500 & From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>, Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times8 Message-ID: <fqduvu46vhs2otj5ip678kkkglcnkkejk9@4ax.com>  N On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:36:07 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  J >In all fairness, VMS was discussed at the top. However, I am puzzled. DidO >Digital really add the "open" in 1991 prior to VMS being available on Alpha in  >1992 ?   - According to the OpenVMS FAQ section 2.2 (see 5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq.txt):   H                    V2.0. When the VMS operating system was ported to theG                    Alpha platform, it was renamed OpenVMS, for both VAX G                    and Alpha (and for the Itanium Processor Family), in J                    part to signify the high degree of support for industryH                    standards such as POSIX, which provides many features#                    of UNIX systems.    and later in the same section:  E                    What became confusing is that the OpenVMS name was D                    introduced first for OpenVMS AXP V1.0 causing theF                    widespread misimpression that OpenVMS was for AlphaF                    AXP only, while "regular VMS" was for VAX. In fact,D                    the official name of the VAX operating system wasJ                    changed as of V5.5, though the name did not start to be;                    actually used in the product until V6.0. I ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only) I -------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:38:20 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times3 Message-ID: <tu9Hm+EyYle1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3DFE715D.57E56E3A@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  K > In all fairness, VMS was discussed at the top. However, I am puzzled. Did P > Digital really add the "open" in 1991 prior to VMS being available on Alpha in	 > 1992 ?    E    The POSIX kit shipped just before Alpha.  That made VMS "Open" and D    DEC retro-named the last couple versions of 5.x OpenVMS since the    POSIX kit would run on them.         ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:17:28 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)H Subject: Common x86/Alpha architecture, was: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming3 Message-ID: <1rKXcCRuXaxX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <atljcg$abe$1@venus.btinternet.com>, "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk> writes:  > H > Did you ever look inside something like a DIGITAL PWS? Which bits wereN > different from the Intel/PCBU version whose name I forget?  And before that,I > an AlphaStation 255 was quite PCish. The DECpc AXP 150, aka Jensen, was L > designed as an exercise to show just how PCish an Alpha could be if anyone! > was interested in PCish Alphas.  > J > In more recent boxes, outside the CPU and the memory controller, whetherL > it's Alpha or x86, it's all starts with PCI and DRAM (I'm ignoring Rambus,K > for now), and eventually trickles down to the delights of IDE, USB, PS/2, L > etc.  Just like on a reasonably modern PC. So not that many differences inN > terms of buses and chips. Yes there may be more error syndrome registers andI > structured machine checks and other niceties on an Alpha but 99% of the H > world don't seem to think they need them. In fact 99% of VMS customersE > probably don't know they've got them either. VMS is nice like that.  >   B Based on my own experience with a Alphastation 200 4/166, I agree.  F FWIW, I have a Hauppauge WinTV card in my home Alpha that works (or atF least the video function does) just fine. This is a multi-function PCIB card, with the video output as function 0, and the audio output as function 1.   E It's unclear from the PCI configuration space for function 1, if it's F been allocated resources, and I haven't investigated further because IF am just using the card to pull the teletext data stream (I am not evenI interested in displaying the picture) from the VBI part of the television D picture. (Function 1 does show up just fine with the SRM show config@ command however, with the correct PCI vendor and subsystem ids).  G In order for me to have got this far (the device driver is still a work G in progress, and I've only got it to turn a single VBI line in a single C frame at a time back to teletext data so far), then the Alpha's DMA B controller, PCI interrupts and PCI resource allocation must all be4 compatible with the way that it's done on an x86 PC.   > 	 > regards  > john >    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:06:59 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha / Message-ID: <3DFE4067.8D9785CB@vl.videotron.ca>    "Mark E. Levy" wrote: J > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.  M Sorry, there is nothing astounding in it.It was a perfectly logical move from I a company such as Compaq which depends on Intel for most of its strategic W business. Intel needed Alpha out of the way so that its IA64 wouldn't look so terrible.   L Compaq should have never purchased Digital.  Someone else than Palmer shouldM have preplaced Olsen, with a clear madate and philosophy to turn Digital into K a lean and mean IT provider that competed head to head against competitors, J instead of trying to please competitors by cannabalising its own products.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:11:41 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha / Message-ID: <3DFE4180.D31B3006@vl.videotron.ca>    Shane Smith wrote: > @ > AFAIK, there is no Athlon 3000+ available yet, so I think your > assumption is safe.   K Mr Smith, since you seem to be so keen on games, how would you react to the  following statements:    1-M Since games require heavy duty CPU, Alpha would have been very popular in the O gaming community if it was affordable and if games were available to run on it.      2-M Assuming (1) is true, *IF* Alpha/VMS had support for some of the most popular N games which ran significantly faster than on windows, gamers would have had noN philosophical problems of using VMS to run their games because it would be theX ultimate workstation. (eg: OS agnostic as long as the OS runs their games best/fastest).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:16:20 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <00A1892D.0C69556B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <ecsL9.41$6J1.423@sccrnsc04>, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes:  > > >"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message* >news:3DFE4067.8D9785CB@vl.videotron.ca... >> "Mark E. Levy" wrote:M >> > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's A >> > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.  >>K >> Sorry, there is nothing astounding in it.It was a perfectly logical move  >from L >> a company such as Compaq which depends on Intel for most of its strategicM >> business. Intel needed Alpha out of the way so that its IA64 wouldn't look 
 >so terrible.  >>H >> Compaq should have never purchased Digital.  Someone else than Palmer >should K >> have preplaced Olsen, with a clear madate and philosophy to turn Digital  >into A >> a lean and mean IT provider that competed head to head against 
 >competitors, M >> instead of trying to please competitors by cannabalising its own products.  > E >"Sorry?" What are you sorry about? I didn't say WHERE the phenomonal K >stupidity began. Palmer was/is a worthless piece of trash who leaves death J >and destruction wherever he goes. He was nothing more than a BG wanna be," >but without the honor & humility.   BG, honor and humility...   > You've got me ROTFLMAO and cleaning up the coffee I've spewed.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:25:52 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <00A1892E.6134D690@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <atlv9g$fdvg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: @ >In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>,. >	"Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes:F >> I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I runJ >> Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. MyN >> 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hoursK >> (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's ? >> slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me.  >  > G >While not meaning to hint anything against Alpha as I too think it was I >probably the best modern processor yet, I do have to say one thing about  >the previous. > I >You can not compare clock rates on dis-similar architectures.  Heck, you I >can't really compare clock rates on similar but different architectures. G >Clock rate is not a measure of how fast a processor is it is a measure I >of how fast the processor can do one thing.  What is much more important I >how much work can be done on each clock cycle.  If a processor has twice J >the clock speed but takes three times as many clock cycles to do a single* >memory load, it isn't going to be faster.  J ...but get the hapless public to appreciate that after being spoonfed thatJ MHz is somehow an indication of processing speed.  To me it seems about asJ reliable a prediction of performance as selling sport cars based upon RPM.    G >Alpha may not have had the highest clock speeds, but it did a lot more E >with what it had than anything in the x86 family.  And that includes  >the next generation.   H ...and where would performance be if that Alpha were clocking at current Pentium/Athlon clock rates?  --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 08:15:43 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski); Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212170815.32d4709d@posting.google.com>   d bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<atlv9g$fdvg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...A > In article <rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, / > 	"Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: G > > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run K > > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. My O > > 533Mhz EV56 Alpha churns through a work unit in slightly less than 10 hours L > > (per CPU). Interesting the AMD's clock rate is ~5 times higher, yet it's@ > > slower. Compaq's stupidity in killing the Alpha astounds me. >  > H > While not meaning to hint anything against Alpha as I too think it wasJ > probably the best modern processor yet, I do have to say one thing about > the previous.  > J > You can not compare clock rates on dis-similar architectures.  Heck, youJ > can't really compare clock rates on similar but different architectures.H > Clock rate is not a measure of how fast a processor is it is a measureJ > of how fast the processor can do one thing.  What is much more importantJ > how much work can be done on each clock cycle.  If a processor has twiceK > the clock speed but takes three times as many clock cycles to do a single + > memory load, it isn't going to be faster.  > H > Alpha may not have had the highest clock speeds, but it did a lot moreF > with what it had than anything in the x86 family.  And that includes > the next generation. >  > bill  ? that goes for other 64 bit chips (sparky) as well ... could you  please explain this to Andrew?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 16:50:29 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 6 Message-ID: <20021217165029.19490.qmail@nym.alias.net>  9 On 17 Dec 2002, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote: 4 >bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message1 >news:<atlv9g$fdvg$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...   I >> Alpha may not have had the highest clock speeds, but it did a lot more G >> with what it had than anything in the x86 family.  And that includes  >> the next generation.   @ >that goes for other 64 bit chips (sparky) as well ... could you >please explain this to Andrew?   D %NNTP-W-ESCAPEE, killfile entry expired. Corrective action required.   What? I need to do this again?   *plonk*      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 06:08:26 GMT * From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph . Message-ID: <ubzL9.381888$NH2.27923@sccrnsc01>  C Here's what $show cpu/full has to say about the chips in my system:   , ALPHA, a DIGITAL Ultimate Workstation 533au2E Multiprocessing is ENABLED. Streamlined synchronization image loaded.    System Information:    Page Size     = 8192   Revision Code =    Serial Number =    Default CPU Capabilities:          System: QUORUM RUN   Default Process Capabilities:          System: QUORUM RUN   Primary CPU = 000    CPU 000  State: RUN    Process Name: _TNA365:            PID: 000139F8   Capabilities: '         System: PRIMARY QUORUM RUN RAD0    Slot Context: 6      CPU     -  Type...........: EV56 (21164A), Pass 2<                 State..........: RC, PA, PP, CV, PV, PMV, PLB                 Variation......: VAX FP, IEEE FP, Primary Eligible                  Serial Number..:                  Revision.......:"                 Halt Request...: 0$                 Software Comp..: 5.5(      PALCODE -  Revision Code..: 1.21-01"                 Compatibility..: 2"                 Max Shared CPUs: 4I                 Memory  Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0 I                 Scratch Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0    Bindings: @      NETACP           PID = 00000091  Reason: PRIMARY Capability   Features:       AUTOSTART is enabled.1      Enabled for use as a Fastpath Preferred CPU.    Fastpath ports assigned:         *** None ***   CPU 001  State: RUN    Process Name: SETI@home 26%             PID: 000000B1   Capabilities:          System: QUORUM RUN RAD0    Slot Context: 6      CPU     -  Type...........: EV56 (21164A), Pass 2<                 State..........: RC, PA, PP, CV, PV, PMV, PL0                 Variation......: VAX FP, IEEE FP                  Serial Number..:                  Revision.......:"                 Halt Request...: 0$                 Software Comp..: 5.5(      PALCODE -  Revision Code..: 1.21-01"                 Compatibility..: 2"                 Max Shared CPUs: 4I                 Memory  Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0 I                 Scratch Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0    Bindings:          *** None ***   Features:       AUTOSTART is enabled.1      Enabled for use as a Fastpath Preferred CPU.    Fastpath ports assigned:         PKB0         *** None *** ALPHA>   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 08:33:11 -06003 From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton) S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 3 Message-ID: <nZadQL+oWDUS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <ubzL9.381888$NH2.27923@sccrnsc01>, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: E > Here's what $show cpu/full has to say about the chips in my system:  > . > ALPHA, a DIGITAL Ultimate Workstation 533au2G > Multiprocessing is ENABLED. Streamlined synchronization image loaded.   O Thanks to all who have followed up - indeed, CLUE CONFIG seems to have no clue.  :-)   L I have a 433au DPW, which contains 512K cache, which was crunching workunitsO at a rate of one every 11 hours.  The 8400 with 625Mhz CPU's (cache unknown - I I suspect 1Meg) crunched workunits at the rate of one every 10 hours and 53 M minutes.  My laptop (800Mhz PIII) does one unit every 9 hours and 40 minutes.   L I'm not sure what conclusions can be drawn from this information - it *is* aM shame about the eventual demise of Alpha, but I'm holding out a hope that VMS M will survive, and perhaps even begin to thrive, on Itanium.  I will note that J I'm going to hedge my bets by continuing to learn and train on Linux/Unix.   >  > System Information:  >   Page Size     = 8192 >   Revision Code =  >   Serial Number =  >   Default CPU Capabilities:  >         System: QUORUM RUN! >   Default Process Capabilities:  >         System: QUORUM RUN >  > Primary CPU = 000  >  > CPU 000  State: RUN  >   Process Name: _TNA365: >            PID: 000139F8 >   Capabilities: ) >         System: PRIMARY QUORUM RUN RAD0  >   Slot Context: 8 >      CPU     -  Type...........: EV56 (21164A), Pass 2> >                 State..........: RC, PA, PP, CV, PV, PMV, PLD >                 Variation......: VAX FP, IEEE FP, Primary Eligible" >                 Serial Number..:" >                 Revision.......:$ >                 Halt Request...: 0& >                 Software Comp..: 5.5* >      PALCODE -  Revision Code..: 1.21-01$ >                 Compatibility..: 2$ >                 Max Shared CPUs: 4K >                 Memory  Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0 K >                 Scratch Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0 
 >   Bindings: B >      NETACP           PID = 00000091  Reason: PRIMARY Capability
 >   Features:  >      AUTOSTART is enabled.3 >      Enabled for use as a Fastpath Preferred CPU.  >   Fastpath ports assigned: >         *** None *** >  > CPU 001  State: RUN  >   Process Name: SETI@home 26%  >            PID: 000000B1 >   Capabilities: ! >         System: QUORUM RUN RAD0  >   Slot Context: 8 >      CPU     -  Type...........: EV56 (21164A), Pass 2> >                 State..........: RC, PA, PP, CV, PV, PMV, PL2 >                 Variation......: VAX FP, IEEE FP" >                 Serial Number..:" >                 Revision.......:$ >                 Halt Request...: 0& >                 Software Comp..: 5.5* >      PALCODE -  Revision Code..: 1.21-01$ >                 Compatibility..: 2$ >                 Max Shared CPUs: 4K >                 Memory  Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0 K >                 Scratch Space..: Physical = 00000000.00000000  Length = 0 
 >   Bindings:  >         *** None ***
 >   Features:  >      AUTOSTART is enabled.3 >      Enabled for use as a Fastpath Preferred CPU.  >   Fastpath ports assigned: >         PKB0 >         *** None *** > ALPHA> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:30:17 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>@ Subject: DCL_ROUTINES.COM (was: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard)' Message-ID: <3DFE53FA.96949E7D@Free.fr>   L To help learning SMG$ routines, you may find useful (and funny) to use a DCL$ hack that I wrote a few years ago...  K This post is the set of routines used by a main "program" performing window M management in DCL. The next three posts are examples. I think example #2 does # not work but I do not remember why.    Enjoy.   D.   $ v=f$v('v') $!+ / $! DCL_ROUTINES.COM		(c) Didier.Morandi@Free.fr  $!' $! X0.1 12-feb-1986   DMo create, paste * $! X0.2 22-mar-1986   DMo unpaste,put_lineK $! X0.3 29-mar-1986   DMo rewrite unpaste code to restore automatically any 6 $! 			    part of other display which could be behind.I $! V1.0-0 21-aug-2001 DMo slightly rewritten and first public release :-) 8 $! In all this, we assume that all windows are bordered. $!
 $! Dictionary 
 $! ==========  $!P $! abs_l   : physical line number on terminal for direct addressing with "ESC ["/ $! abs_c   : physical column number on terminal  $!N $! lin     : relative line number within display (1=border,2=line one, etc...)2 $! col     : relative column number within display $!O $! lin_nr  : line number within a display text area (1=line 1, 2=line 2 etc...) H $! col_nr  : column number within a display text area (unused up to now) $!N $! nrows   : number of lines (rows) in a display, *including* two border linesK $! ncols   : number of columns in a display, *including* two border columns  $!B $! rlin    : line number of line to be repainted during an UNPASTEP $! rcol    : starting column position for line to be repainted during an UNPASTE $!J $! i       : transfer variable to add a trailing "0" for one digit numbers4 $!	     (typically: if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'") $! $!-S $ set on $ on control_y then goto EXITr $ on warning then stop $ dbg = "!"/ $ smg$debug = "''smg$debug'" $ if smg$debug $ then $    dbg = "write smg_debug_ch" + $    debug_file = "sys$login:smg_debug.dat"w> $    if f$search(debug_file) .eqs. "" then create 'debug_file' $    gosub INIT_DEBUG_SESSIONq $ endifo $ esc[0,8] = %O33l $ gr_on = esc + "(0" $ gr_off = esc + "(B" 
 $ gr_line = -aO "qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq"p $ blanks = -R "                                                                                " $ say = "write sys$output" $ dbg "-START-"n $ dbg "p1: ''p1'"n $ dbg "p2: ''p2'"m $ dbg "p3: ''p3'"u $ dbg "p4: ''p4'"l $ dbg "p5: ''p5'"M $ dbg "p6: ''p6'"g $ dbg "p7: ''p7'"  $ dbg "p8: ''p8'" 7 $ if f$type(smg$$display_stack_pointer) .eqs. "" then - 0   smg$$display_stack_pointer == 0				!init stack@ $ 	dbg "SMG$$DISPLAY_STACK_POINTER: ",smg$$display_stack_pointer' $ service = "''p1'"						!what is askedI $ 	dbg "service: ",service5 $ if service .eqs. "" then goto CALL_ERROR			!nothingSI $ if f$locate("DCL$",service) .ne. 0 then goto SYNTAX_ERROR	!syntax erroraE $ if f$extract(4,4,service) .eqs. "SMG_" then goto SMG		!SMG routinesS* $ goto UNKNOWN_SERVICE						!not yet impl. $!+t $! window management ala SMG$p $!-  $SMG:e5 $ on error then goto UNKNOWN_ROUTINE				!syntax error 4 $ routine = f$extract(8,99,service)				!extract name! $ 	dbg "called routine: ",routinen $ goto 'routine'						!branch  $! $HELP: $ type sys$input $DECKl  ) Currently implemented SMG$ functions are:g     DCL$SMG_HELP  # DCL$SMG_CLEAR_SCREEN [display_name]L  N DCL$SMG_CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY nr_of_rows nr_of_cols display_name border label  A DCL$SMG_PASTE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY display_name (line column)|(center)T  F DCL$SMG_PASTE_PARTIAL_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY display_name line column line_nr  / DCL$SMG_PUT_LINE  text line column display_namee  , DCL$SMG_UNPASTE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY display_name   $EOD $ goto EXIT P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $CLEAR_SCREEN:
 $!===========a $!+r= $! clear screen or display which name to pass as a parameter.  $!-  $ 	dbg "enter CLEAR_SCREEN"  $ on warning then stop $ if p2 .eqs. "" $ then $    say esc,"[H",esc,"[J" $ else  $    gosub CLEAR_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY $ endifM $ goto EXITaP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $CLEAR_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY:V $!==================== $!+lO $! paint blank lines into a pasted virtual display and clears lines in "memory"  $!-e$ $ 	dbg "enter CLEAR_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY" $ on warning then stop$ $ d_name = "''p2'"					!display name $ 	dbg "d_name: ",d_nameF $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION) .eqs. "" then goto NO_SUCH_DISPLAYG $ abs_l = f$extract(0,2,SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION)		!absolute upper-left Lw $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_lG $ abs_c = f$extract(2,2,SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION)		!absolute upper-left Cr $ 	dbg "abs_c: ",abs_cD $ nrows = f$extract(0,2,SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE)		!nr of rows with border $ 	dbg "nrows: ",nrows2 $ nrows = 'nrows' - 2					!make it offset numeric C $ ncols = f$extract(2,2,SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE)		!nr of columns with b.- $ 	dbg "ncols: ",ncols2 $ ncols = 'ncols' - 2					!make it offset numeric % $ nothing = f$extract(0,ncols,blanks)u $ 	dbg "nothing: >",nothing,"<""% $ 	dbg "nothing_len: ",f$len(nothing)"2 $ abs_c = 'abs_c' + 1					!do not erase col border& $ clear_index = 2					!init LOOP index $! $CLEAR_LOOP:						!display loope2 $ abs_l = 'abs_l' + 1					!next line (do not erase+ $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l				!   (line border)e& $ if 'abs_l' .gt. 24 then stop				!BUG; $ say esc,"[''abs_l';''abs_c'f",nothing			!paint blank linev $ i = 'clear_index'r! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'" 4 $ SMG$$'d_name'_LINE'i' == -				!clear line contentsH  gr_on + "x" + gr_off + f$extract(0,ncols,blanks) + gr_on + "x" + gr_off8 $ 	dbg "SMG$$''d_name'_LINE''i': ",SMG$$'d_name'_LINE'i'! $ clear_index = 'clear_index' + 1 " $ 	dbg "clear_index: ",clear_index2 $ if 'clear_index' .gt. ('nrows'+1) then goto EXIT $ goto CLEAR_LOOPaP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY: $!=====================  $!+w1 $! create display in memory, using global symbolsa $!-r0 $ 	dbg "enter CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY (no debug)" $ on warning then stop! $ nrows  = 'p2'							!nr of rowsh@ $ if nrows .lt. 10 then nrows = "0" + "''nrows'"		!2chars please $ ncols  = 'p3'd0 $ if ncols .lt. 10 then ncols = "0" + "''ncols'"! $ d_name = p4							!display name  $ border = p5							!with/outh0 $ label  = f$edit(p6,"upcase")					!window title? $ if nrows  .eqs. "" then goto SMG_CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY_ERRORu? $ if ncols  .eqs. "" then goto SMG_CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY_ERROR?? $ if d_name .eqs. "" then goto SMG_CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY_ERRORE1 $ if border .eqs. "" then border = "0"			!defaulti3 $ if label  .eqs. "" then label  = d_name		!defaults. $ create_index = 0					!init (not yet created)2 $ root = "SMG$$''d_name'_LINE"				!temp variable  M $ smg$$display_stack_pointer == smg$$display_stack_pointer + 1	!a new displayk@ $ 	dbg "SMG$$DISPLAY_STACK_POINTER: ",smg$$display_stack_pointerP $ smg$$display_'smg$$display_stack_pointer'_name == d_name!display name in stack8 $ smg$$'d_name'_size   :== 'nrows''ncols'		!display size1 $ smg$$'d_name'_border :== 'border'			!border Y/Ne1 $ smg$$'d_name'_label   == label			!display title 7 $ smg$$'d_name'_pasted  == ""				!init (not yet pasted)o $! $SMG_CREATE_LOOP:e# $ create_index = 'create_index' + 1nK $ if 'create_index' .gt. 'nrows' then goto SMG_NO_MORE_ROWS	!end of displayh $ i = 'create_index'! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"o3 $ display = root + "''i'"				!build global var namen( $ 'display' == ""					!create it (empty) $ goto SMG_CREATE_LOOP $! $SMG_NO_MORE_ROWS:C $ if border .eqs. "0" then goto SMG_NO_BORDER		!not implemented yet. $ border_index = 1% $ display = root + "0''border_index'"o $ 'display' == -B  gr_on + "l" + f$extract(0,ncols-2,gr_line) + "k" + gr_off	!update $ title_len = f$len(label)  $ frame_width = f$len('display')- $ title_pos = (frame_width/2) - (title_len/2)t. $ title_pos = 'title_pos' - 1				!because of... $ title_len = 'title_len' + 2				!..the spaces5 $ 'display'['title_pos','title_len'] :== " ''label' "  $! $SMG_BORDER_LOOP:n# $ border_index = 'border_index' + 1 O $ if 'border_index' .eq. 'nrows' then goto SMG_LAST_LINE !last one is different  $ i = 'border_index'! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"2 $ display = root + "''i'"m $ 'display' == -J  gr_on + "x" + gr_off + f$extract(0,ncols-2,blanks) + gr_on + "x" + gr_off $ goto SMG_BORDER_LOOP $! $SMG_LAST_LINE:d $ i = 'border_index'! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"u $ display = root + "''i'"2 $ 'display' == -:  gr_on + "m" + f$extract(0,ncols-2,gr_line) + "j" + gr_off $ goto EXIT P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $PASTE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY:s $!==================== $!+ 9 $! Read display from memory and paste it onto the screen. L $! The CENTER parameter will position the window in the middle of the screen $!-t/ $ 	dbg "enter PASTE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY (no debug)"t $ on warning then stop$ $ d_name = "''p2'"					!display nameB $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE) .eqs. "" then goto NO_SUCH_DISPLAY. $ size = SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE				!get size of it3 $ nrows = 'f$extract(0,2,size)'				!make it numerice( $ ncols = 'f$extract(2,2,size)'				!idem0 $ if f$edit(p3,"collapse,upcase") .eqs. "CENTER" $ then $    abs_l = 12 - (nrows/2)  $    abs_c = 40 - (ncols/2)u $ else" $    abs_l = 'p3'					!line number$ $    abs_c = 'p4'					!column number $ endife+ $ if abs_l .lt. 10 then abs_l = "0''abs_l'" + $ if abs_c .lt. 10 then abs_c = "0''abs_c'"cB $ SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION :== 'abs_l''abs_c'		!record abs. position $ paste_index = 0C $ root = "SMG$$''d_name'_LINE" $! $PASTE_LOOP:						!display loopt! $ paste_index = 'paste_index' + 1< $ if 'paste_index' .gt. 'nrows'm $ then* $    SMG$$'d_name'_PASTED == "Y"			!pasted! $    goto EXIT						!no more rowst $ endift $ i = 'paste_index'w! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"  $ display_line = root + "''i'"; $ say esc,"[''abs_l';''abs_c'f",'display_line'		!paint lineT" $ abs_l = abs_l + 1					!next line $ goto PASTE_LOOPuP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $PASTE_PARTIAL_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY:  $!============================ $!+pL $! Routine to repaste a particular line of a given display without having toI $! repaste the whole display, which would cause any overlapping window toh
 $! disappear.i $! $! Required parameters are:e $! p2 = display name $! p3 = line number to paste $!- , $ 	dbg "enter PASTE_PARTIAL_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY" $ on warning then stop $ if p2 .eqs. "" .or. -oC      p3 .eqs. ""  then goto SMG_PASTE_PARTIAL_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY_ERROR $ $ d_name = "''p2'"					!display nameP $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION) .eqs. "" then goto NO_SUCH_DISPLAY !obvious? $ 	dbg "d_name: ",d_name! $ lin_nr = 'p3'						!line numberc $ 	dbg "lin_nr: ",lin_nr8 $ position = SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION			!absolute position $ 	dbg "position: ",position? $ abs_l = 'f$extract(0,2,position)' 			!line number on terminale $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l> $ abs_c = 'f$extract(2,2,position)'			!col. number on terminal $ 	dbg "abs_c: ",abs_c6 $ lin = 'abs_l' + 'lin_nr'				!relative start position $ 	dbg "lin: ",lin- $ col = 'abs_c'						!relative start positionh $ 	dbg "col: ",col0 $ size = SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE				!get display size $ 	dbg "size: ",size2 $ nrows = 'f$extract(0,2,size)'				!number of rows $ 	dbg "nrows: ",nrows5 $ ncols = 'f$extract(2,2,size)'				!number of columns  $ 	dbg "ncols: ",ncolsO $ if 'lin_nr' .ge. 'nrows' then goto SMG_LINE_OUT_OF_DISPLAY !line number errory4 $ root = "SMG$$''d_name'_LINE"				!transfer variable, $ lin_nr = 'lin_nr' + 1				!skip border line $ i = lin_nr! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"i3 $ display_line == root + "''i'"				!global var namet5 $ say esc,"[''lin';''col'f",'display_line'		!paint itp& $ 	dbg "display_line: ",'display_line' $ goto EXIT						!doneP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $UNPASTE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY:, $!====================== $!+GN $! Unpaste function. Actually removes the display by painting blanks. If thereP $! is another display "behind", then repaint only the lines which were "hidden". $!- & $ 	dbg "enter UNPASTE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY" $ on warning then stop $ ovw_offset = 0					!init$ $ d_name = "''P2'"					!display name $ 	dbg "d_name: ",d_nameP $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION) .eqs. "" then goto NO_SUCH_DISPLAY !obvious?8 $ position = SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION			!absolute position $ 	dbg "position: ",position? $ abs_l = 'f$extract(0,2,position)' 			!line number on terminals $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l* $ p2_lin = 'abs_l'					!save initial value> $ abs_c = 'f$extract(2,2,position)'			!col. number on terminal $ 	dbg "abs_c: ",abs_c, $ size = SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE				!display size $ 	dbg "size: ",size2 $ nrows = 'f$extract(0,2,size)' 			!number of rows5 $ ncols = 'f$extract(2,2,size)'				!number of columnsm $ 	dbg "nrows: ",nrows $ 	dbg "ncols: ",ncols $!+gP $! First we check if display may overstrike another one, in order to repaint it.D $! If smg$$display_stack_pointer is 1, we have only one display, us.I $! If it is greater, we overwrite or we do not overwrite another display p: $! depending of the relative location of the two displays. $!-o@ $ 	dbg "SMG$$DISPLAY_STACK_POINTER: ",smg$$display_stack_pointerP $ if smg$$display_stack_pointer .le. 1 then goto NO_OVERSTRIKE !there is no suchP $ smg$$display_stack_pointer == smg$$display_stack_pointer - 1 !one display less= $ ovw_nr = 'smg$$display_stack_pointer'			!get previous levelr0 $ 	dbg "ovw_nr: ",ovw_nr					!overwritten window7 $ ovw_name = smg$$display_'ovw_nr'_name			!get its name  $ 	dbg "ovw_name: ",ovw_name $ 	dbg "d_name: ",d_nameA $ if ovw_name .eqs. d_name then goto NO_OVERSTRIKE 	!same displaymG $ unpasted_display_end = 'abs_l' + 'nrows' - 1		!absolute end of displ.S4 $ 	dbg "unpasted_display_end: ",unpasted_display_end $!+ M $! now check which lines are to be repainted, comparing starting position andw
 $! length. $!- = $ 	dbg "smg$$''ovw_name'_position: ",SMG$$'ovw_name'_POSITIONcK $ ovw_start_line = f$extract(0,2,SMG$$'ovw_name'_POSITION) !absolute line # # $ ovw_start_line = 'ovw_start_line'o( $ 	dbg "ovw_start_line: ",ovw_start_line9 $ ovw_offset = 'ovw_start_line' - 1			!shift abs/rel pos.-! $ 	dbg "ovw_offset: ", ovw_offset-5 $ 	dbg "smg$$''ovw_name'_size: ",SMG$$'ovw_name'_SIZE1P $ ovw_end_line = 'ovw_start_line' + f$extract(0,2,SMG$$'ovw_name'_SIZE) - 1 !end $ ovw_end_line = 'ovw_end_line'w$ $ 	dbg "ovw_end_line: ",ovw_end_line $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_lJ $ if 'abs_l' .gt. 'ovw_end_line' then goto NO_OVERSTRIKE	!display is under $! $OVERSTRIKE_LOOP:r $ 	dbg "-OVERSTRIKE_LOOP-". $ 	dbg "ovw_start_line      : ",ovw_start_line, $ 	dbg "ovw_end_line        : ",ovw_end_line4 $ 	dbg "unpasted_display_end: ",unpasted_display_end% $ 	dbg "abs_l               : ",abs_lzH $ if 'ovw_start_line'.gt.'ovw_end_line' then goto NO_OVERSTRIKE !no moreP $ if 'ovw_start_line'.gt.'unpasted_display_end' then goto NO_OVERSTRIKE !no more; $ if 'ovw_start_line'.eq.'abs_l' then goto MARK_FOR_REPAINT O $ if 'ovw_start_line'.lt.'abs_l' then ovw_start_line = ovw_start_line + 1 !nextC. $ 	dbg "ovw_start_line      : ",ovw_start_line= $ if 'ovw_start_line'.gt.'abs_l' then abs_l = abs_l + 1 !next-* $ goto OVERSTRIKE_LOOP					!check next one $! $MARK_FOR_REPAINT: $ 	dbg "-MARK_FOR_REPAINT-"s $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l  $ 	dbg "ovw_offset: ",ovw_offset4 $ lin_nr = 'abs_l' - 'ovw_offset'			!relative line # $ 	dbg "lin_nr: ",lin_nr $ i = 'lin_nr'! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"n7 $ repaint_line'i'=smg$$'ovw_name'_line'i'		!record linet+ $ 	dbg "repaint_line''i': ",repaint_line'i'n% $ abs_l = 'abs_l' + 1					!next line h $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l< $ ovw_start_line = 'ovw_start_line' + 1			!next overstr line( $ 	dbg "ovw_start_line: ",ovw_start_line& $ goto OVERSTRIKE_LOOP					!next check $!+i0 $! no previous display. we just remove this one. $!-l $NO_OVERSTRIKE:  $ 	dbg "-NO_OVERSTRIKE-"% $ abs_l = 'p2_lin'					!restore values $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l" $ unpaste_index = 0					!init loop& $ 	dbg "unpaste_index: ",unpaste_index $ 	dbg "ncols: ",ncols/ $ display = f$extract(0,ncols,blanks)			!blanks  $ 	dbg "display: ",display% $ 	dbg "display_len: ",f$len(display)e $! $UNPASTE_LOOP: $ 	dbg "-UNPASTE_LOOP-"m& $ 	dbg "unpaste_index: ",unpaste_index% $ unpaste_index = 'unpaste_index' + 1u& $ 	dbg "unpaste_index: ",unpaste_index $ 	dbg "nrows: ",nrows, $ if 'unpaste_index' .gt. 'nrows'			!no more $ then, $    smg$$'d_name'_PASTED == "N"			!unpasted! $    goto EXIT						!no more rowsi $ endifh $ 	dbg "display: ",displayN $ 	dbg "[painting ''f$len(display)' screen blanks line ''abs_l' col ''abs_c']"7 $ say esc,"[''abs_l';''abs_c'f",display			!paint blanksi $ i = 'abs_l' - ovw_offset! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'"dM $ if f$type(repaint_line'i') .eqs. "" then goto NEXT_LINE !no line to repaint ; $	dbg "Line to be repainted: ",repaint_line'i'," number ",i  $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l- $ rlin = 'abs_l'					!display line to repaintb $ 	dbg "rlin: ",rlin= $ 	dbg "smg$$''ovw_name'_position: ",SMG$$'ovw_name'_POSITIONe: $ rcol = f$extract(2,2,SMG$$'ovw_name'_POSITION)	!position $ 	dbg "rcol: ",rcol+ $ 	dbg "repaint_line''i': ",repaint_line'i'M $ ln=repaint_line'i'O $ 	dbg "[repainting screen line (''f$len(ln)' chars) line ''rlin' col ''rcol']"v- $ say esc,"[''rlin';''rcol'f",repaint_line'i'r $! $NEXT_LINE:a $ 	dbg "-NEXT_LINE-"% $ abs_l = 'abs_l' + 1						!next liner $ 	dbg "abs_l: ",abs_l $ goto UNPASTE_LOOPtP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 $PUT_LINE: $!+e< $! write line within virtual display (in memory, remember!). $!-n $ 	dbg "enter PUT_LINE"i $ on warning then stop( $ text = "''p2'"					!text to be written $ 	dbg "text: ",text  $ lin = 'p3'						!relative line $ 	dbg "lin: ",lin" $ col = 'p4'						!relative column $ 	dbg "col: ",col$ $ d_name = "''p5'"					!display name $ 	dbg "d_name: ",d_nameB $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE) .eqs. "" then goto NO_SUCH_DISPLAY, $ size = SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE				!display size $ 	dbg "size: ",size  $ nrows = 'f$extract(0,2,size)'  $ 	dbg "nrows: ",nrows $ ncols = 'f$extract(2,2,size)'  $ 	dbg "ncols: ",ncols@ $! if lin .eq. 1     then goto SMG_INV_LINE_FOR_PUT	!border line@ $! if lin .eq. nrows then goto SMG_INV_LINE_FOR_PUT	!border lineO $ if 'lin' .gt. ('nrows'-2) then goto SMG_LINE_OUT_OF_DISPLAY !no such position4A $! if col .eq. 1     then goto SMG_INV_COL_FOR_PUT	!border columnDA $! if col .eq. ncols then goto SMG_INV_COL_FOR_PUT	!border columnhN $ if 'col' .gt. ('ncols'-2) then goto SMG_COL_OUT_OF_DISPLAY !no such position# $ text_length = f$length(text)				!c" $ 	dbg "text_length: ",text_length9 $ if 'text_length' .gt. ('ncols'-2)			!overflow: truncate- $ then- $    text = f$extract(0,'ncols'-3,text) + "*": $    dbg "text: ",text $    text_length = ('ncols'-2)$ $    dbg "text_length: ",text_length $ endifi' $ lin = 'lin' + 1					!skip border line8 $ i = 'lin'.! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'": $ line = SMG$$'d_name'_LINE'i'' $ col = 'col' + 1					!skip border line ( $ col = 'col' - 1					!col 1 starts at 0C $ line['col'+6,'text_length'] := "''f$extract(0,text_length,text)'" 5 $ SMG$$'d_name'_LINE'i' == line				!update line value  $ 	dbg "line ''lin': ",linep $ goto EXIT P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $SMG_INV_LINE_FOR_PUT: $!+ 0 $! ERROR: unallowed border line selected for PUT $!-  $ say "" $ say -i@ "%DCL$SMG-E-BORDERLINE, Requested line for PUT is a border line" $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSsP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $SMG_INV_COL_FOR_PUT:  $!+n2 $! ERROR: unallowed border column selected for PUT $!-- $ say "" $ say -1C "%DCL$SMG-E-BORDERCOL, Requested column for PUT is a border column": $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSlP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $SMG_LINE_OUT_OF_DISPLAY:3 $!+n: $! ERROR: line position for PUT is outside of display area $!-z $ say "" $ say -tF "%DCL$SMG-E-LINEOUT, Line position for PUT is outside of display area" $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSyP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $SMG_COL_OUT_OF_DISPLAY: $!+t< $! ERROR: column position for PUT is outside of display area $!-n $ say "" $ say -nG "%DCL$SMG-E-COLOUT, Column position for PUT is outside of display area"  $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSfP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------" $SMG_CREATE_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY_ERROR: $!+>6 $! ERROR: missing some parameters for display creation $!-e $ say "" $ say -lE "%DCL$SMG-E-CREATERR, One or more parameters are missing within call"  $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSlP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------) $SMG_PASTE_PARTIAL_VIRTUAL_DISPLAY_ERROR:a $!+l+ $! ERROR: missing some parameters for pastea $!-u $ say "" $ say -nH "%DCL$SMG-E-PASTPARTERR, One or more parameters are missing within call" $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSeP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $UNKNOWN_SERVICE:e $!+r8 $! ERROR service unknown or syntax error in service name $!-F $ say "" $ say -pH "%DCL$MAIN-E-UNKSERV, Requested service does not exist. Check spelling." $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMSTP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NO_SUCH_DISPLAY:- $!+-6 $! ERROR display unknown or typo error in display name $!-A $ say "" $ say -eE "%DCL$MAIN-E-UNKDISP, Target display does not exist. Check spelling."s $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMS6P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $CALL_ERROR: $!+u" $! error in call. no P1 parameter  $!-1 $ say "" $ say -nK "%DCL$MAIN-E-INVCALL, This procedure is a set of subroutines to be called,"j $ say -d5 "                     you can't execute it directly."  $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMStP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $SYNTAX_ERROR: $!+s: $! error in call. The syntax for parameter P1 is incorrect $!-l $ say "" $ say -sC "%DCL$MAIN-E-SYNTAX, Incorrect call syntax. Should start with DCL$"a $ goto DISPLAY_PARAMS P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $DISPLAY_PARAMS:
 $ set noon $ say ""> $ say "Time is ",f$time()," - Symbolic stack dump follows :-)" $ say ""5 $ @web$library:get_caller S				!creates global Symbolt; $ say "Calling procedure    : ",get_caller__2		! __1 is us.t$ $ say "Parameter P1         : ''p1'"$ $ say "Parameter P2         : ''p2'"$ $ say "Parameter P3         : ''p3'"$ $ say "Parameter P4         : ''p4'"$ $ say "Parameter P5         : ''p5'"' $ say "Symbol NROWS         : ''nrows'" ' $ say "Symbol NCOLS         : ''ncols'"a& $ say "Symbol SIZE          : ''size'"< $ say "DISPLAY_STACK_POINTER: ''smg$$display_stack_pointer'"0 $ if f$type(smg$$display_stack_pointer) .nes. "" $ thenB $    display_name = smg$$display_'smg$$display_stack_pointer'_nameM $    say "SMG$$DISPLAY_''smg$$display_stack_pointer'_NAME  : ''display_name'". $ elseC $    say "SMG$$DISPLAY_STACK_POINTER: global symbol does not exist"  $ endifh( $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE) .nes. "" $ then% $    d_name_size = SMG$$'d_name'_SIZE 2 $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_SIZE    : ''d_name_size'" $ else@ $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_SIZE    : global symbol does not exist" $ endifc* $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_BORDER) .nes. "" $ then) $    d_name_border = SMG$$'d_name'_BORDERe4 $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_BORDER  : ''d_name_border'" $ else@ $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_BORDER  : global symbol does not exist" $ endif), $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION) .nes. "" $ then. $    d_name_position = SMG$$'d_name'_POSITION 6 $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_POSITION: ''d_name_position'" $ else@ $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_POSITION: global symbol does not exist" $ endifc $ i = 'lin'4! $ if 'i' .lt. 10 then i = "0''i'".+ $ if f$type(SMG$$'d_name'_LINE'i') .nes. ""m $ then( $    d_name_line = SMG$$'d_name'_LINE'i'6 $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_LINE''i'    : ''d_name_line'" $ elseD $    say "SMG$$''d_name'_LINE''i'    : global symbol does not exist" $ endift$ $ @sys$login:delete_symbols smg$$* N $ say "" $ say "Program aborted." $ 	dbg "Exit abort"r& $ if smg$debug then close smg_debug_ch $ stop $! $INIT_DEBUG_SESSION: $ close/nolog smg_debug_ch' $ open/append smg_debug_ch 'debug_file'g) $! dbg f$time()," by ",f$env("procedure")b $ dbg "---"  $ dbg f$time() $ return $! $EXIT: $ dbg "Exit success"& $ if smg$debug then close smg_debug_ch $ exit   -- d3   -------------------------------------------------c3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fru0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928s3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 ---------------------------------------------------p3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:31:38 +0100o4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> Subject: DCL_SMG_DEMO.COM ' Message-ID: <3DFE544A.756E6878@Free.fr>g   $! DMo 21-aug-2001 $ say = "write sys$output"D $ say "This small procedure does a demo of my SMG routines for DCL"  $ say ""& $ say "STEP 1: Create virtual display"8 $ inq rows "enter number of lines for your display [10]" $ if rows .eq. 0 then rows = 10r9 $ inq cols "enter number of colums for your display [40]"  $ if cols .eq. 0 then cols = 40l+ $ inq d_name "enter display name [WINDOW1]"@, $ if d_name .eqs. "" then d_name = "WINDOW1"= $ inq border "do you wish your display to be bordered? [Y]/N"n& $ if border .eqs. "" then border = "Y"D $ inq y_pos "enter line number for upper left corner of display [5]"  $ if y_pos .eq. 0 then y_pos = 5G $ inq x_pos "enter column number for upper left corner of display [10]"c! $ if x_pos .eq. 0 then x_pos = 10 ' $ inq erase "erase screen first? [Y]/N")$ $ if erase .eqs. "" then erase = "Y", $ inq label "enter window title [''d_name']"' $ if label .eqs. "" then label = d_namee $ @dcl_routines -tI    dcl$smg_create_virtual_display 'rows' 'cols' 'd_name' 'border' 'label'pA $ say "Virtual display ''d_name' successfully created in memory."  $ say "", $ say "STEP 2: Fill display with text lines"4 $ i=1				!start put in line one   (default for demo)+ $ i_col=1			!start put in column one (idem)> $ i_max=rows: $ say "Text default value for demo is ""This is line x."""+ $ say "To enter a blank line, type a space"7 $LOOP:? $ read/end=NEXT/prompt="Enter text for line ''i' (F10=end): " -n$                 sys$command line_'i'; $ if line_'i' .eqs. "" then line_'i' = "This is line ''i'."e $ line = line_'i'm? $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_put_line "''line'" 'i' 'i_col' 'd_name'e $ i=i+1d$ $ if i .gt. (i_max-2) then goto NEXT $ goto LOOPs $NEXT: $ say "") $ say "STEP 3: paste display to terminal"s! $ inq dummy "Hit RETURN to start"r2 $ if erase then @dcl_routines dcl$smg_clear_screenF $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_paste_virtual_display 'd_name' 'y_pos' 'x_pos' $ say "" $ say "STEP 4: unpaste display"t $KOMON:C& $ inq dummy "Hit Y to unpaste display"  $ if .not. dummy then goto KOMON8 $ @dcl_routines dcl$smg_unpaste_virtual_display 'd_name' $KOMON_BABY: $ inq dummy "Hit Y to exit"b% $ if .not. dummy then goto KOMON_BABY  $ type/page nl:i4 $ say "Thank you for playing with DCL$SMG routines."4 $ say "Source code for routines is DCL_ROUTINES.COM" $ say "Enjoy." $ exit   --  3   -------------------------------------------------C3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr00   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 ---------------------------------------------------A3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondree   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:59:05 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>0. Subject: Re: DECwindows/Motif sessions over IP; Message-ID: <01KQ4YQTUOJM9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>5  H > Look in (IIRC) DECW$EXAMPLES for something called "ico". It's a littleI > program that displays a rotating 3d line drawing, but it's got the mostiG > comprehensive error trapping I've seen in an example. Try pushing itseF > display to the target node, and there's a good chance it'll tell you > exactly what's wrong.    According to the source code:   L  *      Display a wire-frame rotating icosahedron, with hidden lines removed  ! I HIGHLY recommend something like   7 $  MC SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW]ICO.EXE -sleep 1    and not   / $  RUN SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW]ICO.EXES  
 Also, try   4 $  MC SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.DECW]ICO.EXE -help   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:14:51 -0800- From: jodonnell@hrblock.com (Jason O'Donnell)D= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)J= Message-ID: <9059bf6b.0212170714.5ea4edaa@posting.google.com>e  E Hp has created some nice adds.  Now if they would only mention VMS...m   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 08:08:47 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)y= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212170808.596aa720@posting.google.com>u   duncan@macdonald.compulink.co.uk (Duncan Macdonald) wrote in message news:<memo.20021217005108.24699A@macdonald.compulink.co.uk>...tR > Given the drastic fall off in new user systems being based on VMS over the last L > few years I do not think that it is likely for VMS to last as an actively < > developed operating system for more than a few more years.P > VMS (and most other operating systems - eg Solaris) are losing out to Windows P > and Linux. Windows has a stranglehold on the desktop and a strong presence in P > the small server market (despite its many problems). Linux is taking more and L > more of the Unix server market and even Microsoft cannot compete with its P > pricing. A number of the Unix system makers have moved or are moving to Linux / > as it reduces their cost to develop software.aP > In the reasonably priced range Intel and AMD CPUs dominate and their speed is O > still increasing rapidly (3GHz CPUs in laptops are now available!!). The one aP > possible competitor was killed off (Alpha). As any system builder is going to N > be using either Intel or AMD CPUs, there is not much (if any) incentive for Q > them to develop their own operating system given the availability of Linux for UA > nothing (except the cost of drivers for any uncommon hardware).tK > I will regret the demise of VMS - great product killed by bad management :P > decisions and lousy marketing but it is now too late to save it. If its price Q > was dropped to the point where it could compete with the Windows NT family, HP oP > would lose money hand over fist on each copy but if it stays as a high priced P > product new users will not be drawn into trying it. A further problem for VMS Q > is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers who are having to cO > move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the current downturn. When (and if)  P > the economy recovers, many of these will not be available for new VMS jobs so M > users will choose other operating systems for which programmers and system h3 > managers are readily available (Windows and Unix)0  ? you better tell the vms group to stop the itanium port then ... ; actually I am hearing otherwise, that vms system sales haveD? held steady, mainly because linux and windoze are no where near2B the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...; why would a company want to essentially start over with newP< feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms; has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? @ and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little; more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features : then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now3 being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 23:44:24 -0800" From: gracy_fg@hotmail.com (Gracy)4 Subject: Error Regarding LIB$TABLE_PARSE RTL Routine= Message-ID: <e3e69beb.0212162344.529296af@posting.google.com>s   Hi Friends, <  I am facing a fascinating problem with OpenVMS RTL library   routine LIB$TABLE_PARSE.I run ,  the compiled code in ALPHA.  m=  We have a huge buffer of data.We pass it to lib$table_parse R   routine as an argument.In that E  data we have a lookup table whose values are string (TPA$_ANY).When e#  this is parsed we get the error.IteE  was working fine with a value like "SEPOSS", but when one character h  is added like "SEPOSS1" I get e  the error p  r5  " %LIB-F-SYNTAXERR, string syntax error detected by e
  LIB$TPARSE "m  s   <  But the same buffer of data is not throwing any error when   n4  1) this value is again changed to "SEPOSS12345" or   )=  2) if we add a blank string within quotes immediately after    this line where data is  changed or   u9  3) when some huge number of entries is deleted from the e  buffer.  i8  What may be the reason for it.Does LIB$TABLE_PARSE has   any "limitations" ????gB  or should i change any variable or parameters regarding that.Has    anybody faced similar problem .  Could you please help me .n     Thanks in advance, 	  Regards,:  Gracy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:55:13 -0500y& From: David M Smith <dsmit115@csc.com>8 Subject: Re: Error Regarding LIB$TABLE_PARSE RTL Routine8 Message-ID: <1ieuvu86i3bd9q84tjq62klv430m4jvv1c@4ax.com>  B On 16 Dec 2002 23:44:24 -0800, gracy_fg@hotmail.com (Gracy) wrote:   >Hi Friends,= > I am facing a fascinating problem with OpenVMS RTL library a  > routine LIB$TABLE_PARSE.I run  > the compiled code in ALPHA.n  M It might be helpful to include the actual code (call to LIB$TABLE_PARSE), thepI condition code returned by the call, your parse table, and the data whicht exhibits the problem.n  N Unless someone else has seen this exact problem, your description is (to me) a
 bit vague.I -------------------------------------------------------------------------sI David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot com I Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer only)$I -------------------------------------------------------------------------_   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:34:29 +0100f+ From: Arne Bergseth <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com>gI Subject: Re: FORTRAN90, CXML library, IEEE float & DENORM_RESULTS problem"1 Message-ID: <2CGL9.1897$Rc7.49306@news2.e.nsc.no>q   Tom Crane wrote:  
 >Dear All, >q; >It is possible to statically link against the IEEE version P >of CXML? The reason I'm interested, is to build an executable on a cluster node >  s >t Yes, I am linking with: &      SYS$LIBRARY:CXML$STS.OLB /LIBRARY and that works for me,@ but I vaguely remember that it might have been questions during F installation of the CXML package about what parts and versions of the  library to install.d5 You may have to fetch it from the installation files.D   Regards,    Arne Bergseth   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:43:36 -0500v+ From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com>t1 Subject: Re: Holes in my CSWS (apache) access_logi1 Message-ID: <H1FL9.6$Bn2.403569@news.cpqcorp.net>    Jim,  J If you ned to generate statistics, I recommend that you do "@apache$configK new" followed by "@apache$startup restart". Or, do a shutdown, copy the loge files, and re-start the server.U  F There are some problems with both "new and flush" commands that we are addressing.a  
 Rick Barry% Compaq Secure Web Server Project Teamc OpenVMS System Software Groupt Hewlett-Packard Companyl
 Nashua, NH  7 "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message[/ news:atd1a8$12lgnv$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de...n? > I just spoke to CSWS support.  This is a known problem if theI@ > command @sys$startup:apache$config flush has been used.  Seems< > some tiime later the voids will show up.  A fix is pendingB > in "a week or two".  I'm off on vacation so hopefully it will be > ready when I return. >eA > btw, using @sys$startup:apache$config new doesn't seem to cause-D > the problem so that could be scheduled for every night/week/month. >rC > I have said this before, but am again reminded how great it is to : > have support for these open source products.  A lot more? > efficient use of my time than browsing mailing list archives.s >C > JimR >L9 > "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> wrote in message-1 > news:atctjl$11u456$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de...-G > > I'm running CSWS 1.2 in production and the inevitable has happened.kC > > Management wants usage statistics.  I got webalizer running and!B > > it makes lovely graphs, but the usage seemed really weird, oneD > > day the server got 28k hits, the next day 68 hits.  I thought it= > > was a webalizer problem, but no.  In the access_log there A > > are stretches of missing data. For example on one day nothingfA > > in the log from 06:00 until 14:00, and I know the service was_ > > being used.u > >p7 > > My conf file has the default setting for logs, i.e., > >$$ > > CustomLog logs/access_log common > > < > > Is this a known problem?  Would upgrading to 1.3 fix it? > >e > > Jimc > >  > >r > >, >M >'   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 00:58:41 -0800) From: martin.ballard@ndr.co.uk (Martin B) $ Subject: Re: HSG80 cache performance= Message-ID: <7908c667.0212170058.657b2aff@posting.google.com>l  A The code is 8.4. It is a single HSG80 controller. The target diskl: configuration makes no difference (ie stripe, jbod, raid).   thanks     "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C2C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...B	 > Martin,s > ! > What version of the HSG80 code?t > F > I seem to remember an older version (V8.5??)of the HSG80 code where,J > depending on the config, a problem similar to yours was fixed in a newerB > release of the HSG code. V8.7 is the latest version as I recall. > 
 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantc > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicese > Voice: 613-592-4660n > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)- >  >  > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Martin B [mailto:martin.ballard@ndr.co.uk] r! > Sent: December 16, 2002 4:35 AMd > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComL" > Subject: HSG80 cache performance >  > I > When performing a VMS image restore from SDLT to a 3 disk stripe set onoI > an HSG80 I get a throughput of less than 1MB/sec when there is 512MB of H > cache in the HSG80. When i remove 256MB form the HSG80 and perform theD > same restore i get 10MB/sec. Does anyone know why this should be ?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 02:17:48 -0800# From: bstraehl@bluewin.ch (Bernard)P$ Subject: Re: HSG80 cache performance= Message-ID: <c972613a.0212170217.299f1f18@posting.google.com>e  L gerhard.staub@rizit.at wrote in message news:<3DFDEE27.D517A3BD@rizit.at>...% > Does your HSG80 use Shadowed Cache? ( > It is an sigificant performance boost!7 > btw On our HSG80 writebackcache is enabled by defaultd@ > Also you can use VTDPY on your HSG80 to detect the bottleneck. >   D what is VTDPY? where can I find this tool? I just tried to typ VTDPY/ on a HSG80 prompt but obviously it did'nt work. 
 thanx Bernardi  	 > regardsw	 > Gerhard! >  > Martin B schrieb:a > > H > > When performing a VMS image restore from SDLT to a 3 disk stripe setE > > on an HSG80 I get a throughput of less than 1MB/sec when there is!G > > 512MB of cache in the HSG80. When i remove 256MB form the HSG80 andiF > > perform the same restore i get 10MB/sec. Does anyone know why this > > should be ?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:00:35 +0100v$ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>$ Subject: Re: HSG80 cache performance0 Message-ID: <atn3l4$2ii$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  % "Bernard" <bstraehl@bluewin.ch> wrote. > F > what is VTDPY? where can I find this tool? I just tried to typ VTDPY1 > on a HSG80 prompt but obviously it did'nt work.k > thanx Bernarde > ) VTDPY is a utility in the HSxxx firmware.$ You can see it by entering DIR and execute it by entering	 RUN VTDPY_ Petert   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:26:57 -0500c' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>:$ Subject: RE: HSG80 cache performanceT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9A6F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Martin,E   >>> The code is 8.4.<<<   H I suspect this is the issue. Can you upgrade to something like ACS V8.6?C I don't have the V8.5 release notes, but I suspect it might mention, something about this.   H As mentioned ACS V8.7 is the latest and is likely the preferred version.   Regardst  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Serviceso Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)-       -----Original Message-----3 From: Martin B [mailto:martin.ballard@ndr.co.uk]=20  Sent: December 17, 2002 3:59 AM! To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp$ Subject: Re: HSG80 cache performance    A The code is 8.4. It is a single HSG80 controller. The target diskw: configuration makes no difference (ie stripe, jbod, raid).   thanks    2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageH news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C2C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp net>...a	 > Martin,i >=20! > What version of the HSG80 code?d >=20I > I seem to remember an older version (V8.5??)of the HSG80 code where,=20nG > depending on the config, a problem similar to yours was fixed in a=20nH > newer release of the HSG code. V8.7 is the latest version as I recall. >=20	 > Regards0 >=20 > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.# > Consulting & Integration Servicesa > Voice: 613-592-4660n > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom/ >     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)d >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Martin B [mailto:martin.ballard@ndr.co.uk]! > Sent: December 16, 2002 4:35 AMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comx" > Subject: HSG80 cache performance >=20 >=20I > When performing a VMS image restore from SDLT to a 3 disk stripe set=20iF > on an HSG80 I get a throughput of less than 1MB/sec when there is=20H > 512MB of cache in the HSG80. When i remove 256MB form the HSG80 and=20G > perform the same restore i get 10MB/sec. Does anyone know why this=20 
 > should be ?e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:58:23 +0300e2 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> Subject: Re: multineti- Message-ID: <3DFE305F.1000301@StarLet.SPB.RU>p  
 Hello Tom, 	$set default <spool_directory>  	$delete smtp-return*.*.*I   Tom Linden wrote:wD > There were too many, in the end dele *.*;* in the spool directory. >  >  >>-----Original Message------ >>From: Shane Smith [mailto:ssmith@icius.com]f* >>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:20 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu >>Subject: RE: multineta >> >>1 >>Wouldn't DELETE/ENT=(n,n,n...) get rid of them?i >> >>Shanei >> >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]* >>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:33 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg >>Subject: multinetb >> >> >>3.3 on 6.2 >>0 >>Stopped smtp and have many entries of the form >>5 >> Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Statusi5 >> -----  -------         --------     ------  ------s6 >>    28  SMTP-RETURN     SYSTEM            3  Pending >> >>How do I delete then all?d >>---e( >>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >>Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002i >> >>---'( >>Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.< >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C >>Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002r >> >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C > Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002  >  >      -- o Cheers, Ruslan.-D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+=        Mobile: +7 (812) 116-3222/NMT,   8 901 300-0102/IMT-MCpB     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU0                  http://starlet.spb.ru/~laishev/   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 13:15:26 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: RE: multinet	3 Message-ID: <1lGPA1NmM1eI@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEBLGEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:?D > There were too many, in the end dele *.*;* in the spool directory. >  >>-----Original Message------ >>From: Shane Smith [mailto:ssmith@icius.com]a* >>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:20 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>Subject: RE: multinets >> >>1 >>Wouldn't DELETE/ENT=(n,n,n...) get rid of them?  >> >>Shane$ >> >>-----Original Message-----* >>From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]* >>Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:33 AM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  >>Subject: multinetw >> >> >>3.3 on 6.2 >>0 >>Stopped smtp and have many entries of the form >>6 >>  Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >>  -----  -------         --------     ------  ------7 >>     28  SMTP-RETURN     SYSTEM            3  Pendinge >> >>How do I delete then all?o  5 Classic way to delete all entries from a queue is to:g   $ INIT /QUEUE NUKE_META $ ASSIGN /MERGE NUKE_ME your-queue-with-the-entries-to-be-deletedl $ DELETE /QUEUE NUKE_MEI   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:23:30 -0700i From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>l Subject: Re: OpenVMS software?& Message-ID: <3DFE5262.6050904@srv.net>   Arne Vajhj wrote: > Tim Smith wrote: > H >>   I have a digital alpha server 3000 coming and would like to installI >> VMS 7.x on it.  This is for personal use at home.  What is the currentp5 >> best place to order the software for hobbyist use?a >  >  > F > The best and probably only place would be http://www.montager.com/ ! >  > Arne >  >    Don't forget about ebay!   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 09:12:00 -0800' From: timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith)c Subject: Re: OpenVMS software?= Message-ID: <a7234bb1.0212170912.600c9f50@posting.google.com>e   Thanks, F    I have been there before but I am getting lost in following links. & Can you provide a more direct link for a) Ordering Vms 7.x CDsw! b) Ordering the hobbyist license.s   thanks for being patient.    Timn  X ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3DFE7B41.7BDF1F8A@earthlink.net>... > Arne Vajhj wrote: > >  > > Tim Smith wrote: > > K > > >   I have a digital alpha server 3000 coming and would like to installEL > > > VMS 7.x on it.  This is for personal use at home.  What is the current8 > > > best place to order the software for hobbyist use? > > H > > The best and probably only place would be http://www.montager.com/ ! > >  > > Arne > @ > Looks like a couple of bits got twiddled... He probably meant: > http://www.montagar.com/I > -- A. Sliwinski, after checking half a dozen times to make sure I typed  > it correctly.v   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:47:17 -0500.5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>x< Subject: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD* Message-ID: <atnguc$77u$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   -----Original Message-----   From: Maximous, Signe!  ( Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 8:26 AM  ( To: Skonetski, Susan; Hayward, Catherine  < Subject: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD  K The OpenVMS Business Solutions CD update is now available in HP fulfillment H centers in both the U.S. and EMEA. It is also orderable from the OpenVMS external web site.  I This CD has contributions from 200 partners plus the latest Itanium videoaJ and Mark Gorham's 25th anniversary of OpenVMS presentation including video clips.  I The part number for the new OpenVMS Business Solutions CD is: 5981-3972EN   H In EMEA, you can order this using your regular domain login and order as; many copies of the CD as you want. Go to the following URL:d  - <http://hpdesktv.corp.hp.com/2565/index.html>   > In the U.S., the URL for the literature fulfillment center is:  + <http://www.webfulfillment.com/kpcorp/lit/>a  I If you have not been informed of your account and password, send email to E the address on the screen to get you set up. However, you should havesF received a login account back in July if you were a CMS user. They areC working on getting the HP domain/password implemented for the U.S..n  - Customers can order from the external web at:E: <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/business_solutions_cd.html>  - Please let me know if you have any questions.t   Regards,   Signe    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:56:28 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t@ Subject: Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD; Message-ID: <01KQ59CEWLIAA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  < > The OpenVMS Business Solutions CD update is now available  > in HP fulfillment centers          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   H OK, NOW I get it: the "Customers' First Times" articles are about trips  to "fulfillment centers".w   Vive l'euphimisme!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:22:37 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>@ Subject: Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD* Message-ID: <00A18981.BDAF3729.5@decus.de>  6 "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote:   > [...]! >t/ > Customers can order from the external web at:O< > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/business_solutions_cd.html> >-/ > Please let me know if you have any questions.n   .. which opens a new pagem  H http://www.webfulfillment.com/kphp/webevent/regques.asp?EventCode=574282  D After filling in the required data and sending it ("submit") I got aF "VB scripting error" (don't remember the exact phrasing); trying again later I got a message saying:    "The following errors occurred: = We recognize the fact that you have already responded to this 9 questionnaire. Unfortunately, you may only respond once."	  9 So there is no chance to get a copy of this CD obviously.2   Michael   C PS: "... Scripting" (Visual Basic, Java, ...) is disabled of course" for security reasons.1   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:16:44 GMTe* From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <ghsL9.178810$pN3.13137@sccrnsc03>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>I9 wrote in message news:3DFDE15F.8030100@nospamn.sun.com...   @ > No, why should I bother ? If a large proportion of the posters? > on this group are correct then you will end up on Solaris/AIXe: > or HP-UX unless you are going to go for a career change.  G Hmmm... Let's see, Unix or career change. That's no contest, time for a A career change. I'm not interested in the required lobotomy that's 9 prerequsite to working with Unix, particularly Slowlaris.n  < > Or do you really think that Bobs 80,000 SPARC's claims are> > realistic. If you want a laugh and one at OpenVMS's expense.  & I'm not looking, and I'm not laughing.   ML   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 08:12:22 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212170812.3c682a39@posting.google.com>   g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3DFEB7BE.506FD3BF@vl.videotron.ca>...% > Bob Ceculski wrote:eC > > your the one who has a career change upcoming ... vms will port-@ > > to itanium ... there are two many high end users incl. govt.= > > and defense that depend on it for 24x7 and clustering andd> > > security and 99.9999 uptime and real-time and scalibility  >  > P > Alpha provided the performance advantage that made up with the higher overheadW > of VMS to provide security and reliability as well as a more intelligent file system._ > P > But with VMS in itanium, not only will VMS be hindered by its higher overhead,E > but also hindered by IA64's non stellar performance compared to thedO > competition.  To some, the performance drawback will not be important because-N > they absolutely really need the VMS-specific features. But to others, (whichL > would be the vast majority of potential customers), they will see VMS as aN > slow and expensive solution not worth the performance cost and go eslewhere. > M > You can pitch VMS-Alpha against HP-UX on PA-Risc, and most certaintly pitch-P > VMS against anything on IA64 because of the Alpha advantage. Remove Alpha, and& > VMS loses one of its big advantages. > O > Put VMS on Hammer, and while it may not gain perforance advantage it had withi> > Alpha, it would gain a cost advantage over anything on IA64.  @ EV7 will supply plenty of performance until the alpha team makes@ itanium a viable alternative ... your argument will prove itself wrong 4-5 years from now ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:31:51 +0000n' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy-6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3DFF5F87.5040809@nospamn.sun.com>   Dale Hammer wrote: > Andrew Harrison wrote: > @ >>Check any of the major public audited benchmarks, TPC-C, TPC-H= >>SAP, Oracle apps etc etc. Go back as far as the 8400, there-A >>has never been a case that shows Alpha systems to be performant- >>or price competive.Y >>= >>Of course Alpha does give great SPECint and SPECfp but then!< >>as Freddy memorably pointed out the optimisations used for= >>SPECint and SPECfp were unlikely to be usefull for customer-B >>apps. It isn't a view I necessarely endorse but it was memorable? >>since they are almost the only benchmarks that did show Alpha!* >>in a good light and Freddy works for HP. >>< >>And since 2 x F15K's are roughly equivalent to 4-6 GS320's9 >>we are well up on OpenVMS in terms of throughput with a ! >>much smaller number of systems.- >>> >>One customer I work with has 2 x F15K's clustered, the other >>has 4 clustered. >>	 >>regardsa >>Andrew Harrisonp >> >  > 	 > Andrew,t > G > You said to review the "major public audited benchmarks, TPC-C, TPC-HdM > SAP, Oracle apps etc etc."  So what is the audited TPC-C rating for a F15K?-K > or F12K? or 6800? or 4800?....All of the other major vendors provide this  > benchmark but not Sun. >   ; Can you provide a reasoned argument that explains why doinga? TPC-C for the F15K would be usefull for people trying to assessu2 the relative performance of Sun vs other servers ?   I suspect you cannot.   L > Sun used to be a proponent of the TPC-C ratings but not any more.  Most of > themL > respected analysts (Gartner, Meta, etc) say to be a credible vendor in the
 > enterprise, B > vendors need to post TPC-C ratings to allow customers to do some > comparisons. >   : Interesting, Gartner and Meta are the first people to tell5 you that scaling out, shared nothing clusters are not ( suitable platforms to host large DBMS's.  7 Ironic, the reason why Sun has dropped TPC-C is becauses= the shared nothing approach and the cluster in a box approach > pioneered by Compaq has distorted the TPC-C results to a point" where the results have no meaning.  < Gartner and Meta cannot have it both ways either TPC-C isn't; valid or you can use big scaled out shared nothing clusterse for real world OLTP apps.S  < Of course if Gartner are right then no customers should ever< by OpenVMS since there are no TPC-C results for OpenVMS with8 any DBMS for any systems that are currently manufactured by HP.  6 Sorry but TPC-C isn't your friend in this argument try again.   Regardss Andrew Harrisonf   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:16:29 -0500G5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>: Subject: PL/1 announcmente* Message-ID: <atnf4l$5vi$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Dear Newsgroup,s   I recevied this last night.f   suet           -----Original Message-----  ( From: Tom Linden [mailto:tom@kednos.com]  ' Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 6:02 PMs   To: Skonetski, Susan   Subject: PL/I announcement      = I sent out the following yesterday and realized that I shoulds  3 probaly have included you. Sorry for the oversight.a   regards    Tomm  I We have made available new kits of the PL/I compiler for OpenVMS for botht  D VAX and Alpha and they maybe downloaded from www.kednos.com. Minimum  G versions are 5.5-1 for the VAX and 6.2 for the Alpha. This is an updateb  K release, which corrects a number of bugs and updates the STARLET libraries.d  J Affected components are both the compiler and the runtime library, both of  H which are in the appropriate kit. The kits were compressed using ZIP/VMS  9 and contain the save sets against which to run VMSINSTAL.0  D These kits are available both to commercial licensees and hobbyists.  C If you are planning to move your PL/I applications to Itanium based-  L processors in the future we would appreciate hearing from you regarding your  * schedule, so that we may plan accordingly.  K If you do not wish to receive these announcements in the future, please letG   us know.   Regards   
 Tom Linden   Kednos Corporation   Pebble Beach Californiai   Tel 831 373 7003   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:20:54 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>, Subject: Re: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard' Message-ID: <3DFE51C6.86BE4C4E@Free.fr>s  E When you create a pasteboard, operation that you need to perform onlyoA once, you get back from the call as a return argument an internal E identifier, which is actually the pasteboard id. Then you need to useyH this pasteboard id to perform all further operations: paste unpaste etc.  B You cannot do any operation to a given pasteboard that you did not create by yourself first.   ( (this brings me 15 years in the past...)   D.   taupin974 wrote: > G > I've a problem with this function : smg$create_pasteboard and i begin) > with smg..D > When i examine the return value of the pasteboard creation, i seem( > that the a pasteboard already exist !!G > How can i get the id of the existing pasteboard or force the creationn > a the pasteboard !!    -- V3   -------------------------------------------------r3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928m3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans.i3 --------------------------------------------------- 3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Dec 2002 22:18:38 GMT) From: wkb@freebie.xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)=I Subject: Re: Problem with HSZ50 (access to the CLI from the console port)e? Message-ID: <3dfe513d$0$94295$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>   c In <cScJ9.64770$bq3.50242@news.bellsouth.net> "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com> writes:   F >Battery drain kills the s/n.  Replacing the controller or running theG >Dangerous command is the only way to fix it.  See if Digital/Compaq/HP  >Support will share the secret.d   They will not.   Don't bother   W/ --% |   / o / /_  _   		wilko@FreeBSD.orgo |/|/ / / /(  (_)  Bulte				$   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:55:51 +0100x, From: "Waard, D.G.A. de" <deWaard@WT.TNO.NL>6 Subject: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-LibraryC Message-ID: <6B80E71673E6D611AC1D0008C7F37BC254B977@wt15.wt.tno.nl>    Dear members of this list,  $ I have a little question to ask you;  P I want to use an 'old' TZ887 on our OVMS Alpha (7.2) system, but don't know if IK need special software/license to use it. Its a DLT tape drive with a 7 tape K magazine in it. I managed to get it work with only 1 tape. But not with the-H automatic tape loader. Is there a special setting to use this function? > Can/will anyone explain/tell me which software/license I need?L At the moment we use an dcl procedure to backup our system on an tlz06l tape? unit with a 4 tape magazine, but is not working with the tz887.    TIA,  2 Dannie de Waard                     TNO Automotive7                                     Crash-Safety Centre 2 Phone: +31 (0)15 2696015            P.O. Box 6033,3 Fax:   +31 (0)15 2572104            2600 JA,  DELFTe3 E-Mail:DeWaard@wt.tno.nl            The Netherlandsu" URL: http://www.automotive.tno.nl/  G This e-mail and its contents are subject to a DISCLAIMER with important @ RESERVATIONS:  http://www.automotive.tno.nl/smartsite.dws?id=886        ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:08:03 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>: Subject: Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library) Message-ID: <3DFEF783.D81187A9@127.0.0.1>M   "Waard, D.G.A. de" wrote:.  R > I want to use an 'old' TZ887 on our OVMS Alpha (7.2) system, but don't know if IM > need special software/license to use it. Its a DLT tape drive with a 7 tape(M > magazine in it. I managed to get it work with only 1 tape. But not with theoI > automatic tape loader. Is there a special setting to use this function?y@ > Can/will anyone explain/tell me which software/license I need?N > At the moment we use an dcl procedure to backup our system on an tlz06l tapeA > unit with a 4 tape magazine, but is not working with the tz887.a  A You do not need either 'special' software or a license to use it.i  @ Regarding software, generally each succeeding version of OpenVMSD supports newer, and all the past hardware, nothing special required.D There may be in some cases restrictions of how you can configure theC hardware, you need compatible controllers obviously, but OpenVMS ise largely plug and go.  H No licence, hardware is not generally licensed, however some third partyG hardware occasionally requires licences, but this is well out of scope.lB You have said you've managed to access a single tape, so as far as+ OpenVMS is concerned the device is working.a  F If the autochanger is not working, what do you mean, be more specific.G There is a 'key' setting which governs the cycle of the tapes, when onevB tape is unloaded (DISMOUNT/UNLOAD) as the tape is picked up by theA mechanism, the next tape in line will be loaded automatically. BeaH careful to use MOUNT/ASSIST to allow the mechanism to do its work. ThereH are selector buttons you use to pick tapes to load. Can you use the slotH select buttons and load/unload to work? This should work without OpenVMSE ever being involved, so if this fails, you probably have a mechanicalw failure.   -- m? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencest nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:30:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...e3 Message-ID: <wOvZoehms1Cu@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  x In article <U+4$7MwdIeGj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes: > B > As far as I know, we have not lost one Business Critical Systems( > customer due to the Compaq-HP merger,       Nobody told Scott.e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 08:29:21 -0800* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell)? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...t= Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0212170829.629f06ff@posting.google.com>a  F Somebody at HP-ETS made the same sort of claim.  I don't think this isC correct, however.  My poor old memory may be off, but didn't one ofw? the genome research outfits (Celera?) recently (few months ago)uC announce they were moving from Tru64 on Alpha to a IBM Power setup?l   reference the following URL:  6 http://www.bio-itworld.com/news/111202_report1528.html  E The way I read this is that this is one customer that BCS is going toy lose, if they have not already.e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 06:48:55 -0800) From: jeffz@psychesystems.com (Jeff Zide)r( Subject: Tracking down a TOP CPU Problem= Message-ID: <4680db0c.0212170648.4f5c532c@posting.google.com>i  : I have several users that at random times consume 90% plus8 of the CPU on an Alpha 1200 running V7.1-1H1 of OpenVMS.  5 The users only have one file open when this happens, T [VMS$COMMON.SYSLIB]FDLSHR.EXE;1D  Q I run a show dev/file on all of my disks and this is the only file open/attached.f  2 I stop their PID and the system returns to normal.  F All the users that this happens to are at a remote location connecting over a WAN.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:20:52 +0000 ' From: Martyn <mpattWINDOZE@bigfoot.com>t, Subject: Re: Tracking down a TOP CPU Problem* Message-ID: <3DFF4EE4.7050800@bigfoot.com>   Jeff Zide wrote:  ; >I have several users that at random times consume 90% pluse9 >of the CPU on an Alpha 1200 running V7.1-1H1 of OpenVMS.e >y6 >The users only have one file open when this happens,   >[VMS$COMMON.SYSLIB]FDLSHR.EXE;1 > R >I run a show dev/file on all of my disks and this is the only file open/attached. >w3 >I stop their PID and the system returns to normal.t >sG >All the users that this happens to are at a remote location connectingt >over a WAN. >    >aE If you do a "$show proc/cont/id=xxx" what is the image that they are " running?  I If they're running an installed image then they won't show as having the c& program open with a "$show dev/files".   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 23:46:50 -0800 From: erich.sigwarth@planet.nl* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem= Message-ID: <cfbfed4c.0212162346.21d4cbe4@posting.google.com>T    Yes we tried more than one tape.F Even after a COPY of files to the tape, there is this error  with DIR. We cannot do a DIR  to a tape. yH Always the same:  on another system with VMS 7.2-2 DIR shows  the files. Erichb  y   Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<5722fba54b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>...= > In message <cfbfed4c.0212161234.cb8e1b9@posting.google.com>a+ >           erich.sigwarth@planet.nl wrote:p > J > > Environment: AS DS20E with an ext. DLT tape unit (TZ88); VMS 7.3-1 and > > alla > > relevant patches. E > > When we doing a DIR to the tape after a backup, we see this error 0 > > message very short after the DIR is started.< > > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening $1$MKB0:[]*.*;* as input3 > > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failed-6 > > -SYSTEM-F-TAPEPOSLOST, magnetic tape position lost > > " > > The first (backup) file shown.J > > When we do a BACKUP/LIST  tape, it takes a lot of time, but all backup	 > > files: > > are shown.G > > When we do a DIR on another DS20E under VMS7.2-2 (TZ87 or TZ88) all9
 > > files ares
 > > shown. > > - > > Is this a common problem under VMS 7.3-x.l! > > Can somebody do this test to?E# > > (BACKUP to a tape, then a DIR) i > >  > > Erich Sigwarth > $ > Have you tried more than one tape? > . > does the tape unit record a burst of errors? > K > My suspicion is that the first block of the saveset was detected bad, andnL > backup is using its recovery mechanisms (second copy, redundancy group) toM > recover the information. The bad block might be causing lost position underi2 > DIR, which doesn't have any recovery mechanisms.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:12:17 +0000c( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem) Message-ID: <3DFEF881.2A5DE74E@127.0.0.1>o   erich.sigwarth@planet.nl wrote:e > " > Yes we tried more than one tape.H > Even after a COPY of files to the tape, there is this error  with DIR.  > We cannot do a DIR  to a tape.J > Always the same:  on another system with VMS 7.2-2 DIR shows  the files.  ! Have you tried a SET MAG/REWIND ?    Just guessing...  H Can you COPY the files back off the tape OK? (even COPY $1$MKB0:*.* NL:) ?    -- l? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencese nclews at csc dot comg   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 06:30:38 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem3 Message-ID: <rz1DOn5RgFTg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <cfbfed4c.0212161234.cb8e1b9@posting.google.com>, erich.sigwarth@planet.nl writes:iH > Environment: AS DS20E with an ext. DLT tape unit (TZ88); VMS 7.3-1 and > allo > relevant patches. C > When we doing a DIR to the tape after a backup, we see this errore. > message very short after the DIR is started.: > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening $1$MKB0:[]*.*;* as input1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failed 4 > -SYSTEM-F-TAPEPOSLOST, magnetic tape position lost >   * Do the heads need cleaning on this drive ?  I What are the $ show error counters before and after the $ dir operation ?a  = If you are getting errors, then what does the error log say ?i    > The first (backup) file shown.H > When we do a BACKUP/LIST  tape, it takes a lot of time, but all backup > filest > are shown.E > When we do a DIR on another DS20E under VMS7.2-2 (TZ87 or TZ88) alls > files are  > shown. >   G Are you in a position to swap the tape drives between the two systems ?6  E If you still have a problem reading tapes in the first system's drive H when it is attached to the second system, then you know that it's likelyG to be the drive or the media that's a problem, and not the VMS version.n   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:36:11 +0100r0 From: "labadie" <en_trajectant_a_mort@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem1 Message-ID: <mLFL9.9$Bp2.447643@news.cpqcorp.net>o  F "Alan Adams" <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message9 news:5722fba54b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk...C= > In message <cfbfed4c.0212161234.cb8e1b9@posting.google.com>e+ >           erich.sigwarth@planet.nl wrote:  >8J > > Environment: AS DS20E with an ext. DLT tape unit (TZ88); VMS 7.3-1 and > > all  > > relevant patches.iE > > When we doing a DIR to the tape after a backup, we see this errorG0 > > message very short after the DIR is started.< > > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening $1$MKB0:[]*.*;* as input3 > > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failedr6 > > -SYSTEM-F-TAPEPOSLOST, magnetic tape position lost > >i" > > The first (backup) file shown.J > > When we do a BACKUP/LIST  tape, it takes a lot of time, but all backup	 > > filesa > > are shown.G > > When we do a DIR on another DS20E under VMS7.2-2 (TZ87 or TZ88) allo
 > > files areo
 > > shown.   Helloc  D If you have put 731 fibre scsi V0100,  put back the old sys$mkdriver  
 and anyway, ai/ $ set magtape/fast_skip=never should workaround    Regardsc   Grard   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:00:48 -0800 From: erich.sigwarth@planet.nl* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem= Message-ID: <cfbfed4c.0212170700.17340d98@posting.google.com>2  ! We got an answer from HP Support:u   This is a known problem:$ At the moment there is a workaround: Just  do this commands once:      $ MOUNT/FOR  tape     $ SET MAGTAPE/FAST=NEVER tape    $ DISMOUNT tape* If you do now a DIR to the tape it's okay.N If anybody changes the  MAGTAPE/FAST Parameter  this command has to be redone. Erichi      b erich.sigwarth@planet.nl wrote in message news:<cfbfed4c.0212161234.cb8e1b9@posting.google.com>...H > Environment: AS DS20E with an ext. DLT tape unit (TZ88); VMS 7.3-1 and > all0 > relevant patches. C > When we doing a DIR to the tape after a backup, we see this errort. > message very short after the DIR is started.: > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening $1$MKB0:[]*.*;* as input1 > -RMS-E-FND, ACP file or directory lookup failede4 > -SYSTEM-F-TAPEPOSLOST, magnetic tape position lost >   > The first (backup) file shown.H > When we do a BACKUP/LIST  tape, it takes a lot of time, but all backup > files- > are shown.E > When we do a DIR on another DS20E under VMS7.2-2 (TZ87 or TZ88) allF > files areb > shown. > + > Is this a common problem under VMS 7.3-x.  > Can somebody do this test to?a! > (BACKUP to a tape, then a DIR) h >  > Erich Sigwarth   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:03:11 -0800 From: erich.sigwarth@planet.nl* Subject: Re: VMS 7.3-1 DIR   tape  problem= Message-ID: <cfbfed4c.0212170703.54488cf1@posting.google.com>D  9 Restoring, coping back  is no problem. It's just the DIR.- See the answer from HP.  Erichu  Y Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:<3DFEF881.2A5DE74E@127.0.0.1>...c! > erich.sigwarth@planet.nl wrote:C > > $ > > Yes we tried more than one tape.J > > Even after a COPY of files to the tape, there is this error  with DIR." > > We cannot do a DIR  to a tape.L > > Always the same:  on another system with VMS 7.2-2 DIR shows  the files. > # > Have you tried a SET MAG/REWIND ?  >  > Just guessing... > J > Can you COPY the files back off the tape OK? (even COPY $1$MKB0:*.* NL:) > ?r   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:15:40 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>iK Subject: VMS software (was: RE: Why does BACKUP/IMAGE need write access...)a; Message-ID: <01KQ4ZB5OSBC9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>u   > www.jcameron.com/vms/2  I Interesting site.  I haven't looked at everything there, but why not put eH some things up on Hunter's page (as well) so that all good things can be found in one place?    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 09:04:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)EI Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions oft3 Message-ID: <GU7hhdslnvsp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <BA240B76.2540%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:  N > Likewise, any site who can restore from savesets that span DLT tape volumes,N > either does not have the problem, or had MME disabled at the time the backup > savesets were written.  0 Are you saying this problem is specific to DLT ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 06:52:30 GMTr+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>nT Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of	VMS	VMSVMS2 Message-ID: <BA2409AD.253C%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  F On 12/16/02 6:19 AM, in article 3DFDE10C.B9D91A01@mediasec.de, "Jan C.- Vorbrggen" <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:g  M >> %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, <tape-device>:[000000]*.*; is not the start of a saveo >> set >> or/M >> %BACKUP-I-WRONGVOL, <tape-device>:[000000].; is not the next volume in theh >> set > L > The first one is routine when you mount the non-initial tape, knowing thatO > what you want to restore is on them; in my experience, this is just a warning2$ > that doesn't preclude restoration. > M > The second is informational, although I don't know what happens then - doese9 > the restore abort because of an informational message?!  >  > JantJ In both cases, these are the messages you get in the SYS$ERROR stream fromI your process doing the restore, and the tape volume that was, indeed, themH second in a multi-volume set produces these messages, and will not mountE allowing the restore to continue. The restore does not abort, you are J continually allowed to attempt to provide the correct volume, however whenI you do indeed provide the correct volume, it is rejected and these errorse occur.  L The first of the two errors occurs when you write a saveset which spans to aJ second volume, then dismount the tape, and later remount the second volumeK with the intent of appending the spanned saveset. In this case, when MME is-L active, backup incorrectly rewinds the tape volume, reinitializes the volumeL and begins writing the saveset, overwriting the second segment of the volumeG spanning saveset. Thus when it comes to restoring from the saveset thatg@ spans the volume, when it gets to the second volume, you get theJ %BACKUP-W-NOT1STVOL, <tape-dev>:[000000]*.*; is not the start of a savesetK Error message and given the opportunity, again, to provide the proper tape./  J The second error message comes from the restore of a saveset which spans aL tape volume, where the savesets were continually written without dismounting# the second volume between savesets.r  K I have asked the VMS Engineer who is responsible for correcting the code in-G BACKUP.EXE, to provide me with corroborative references to this problem H which will be fixed in the up coming patch/update. A previously reportedI problem was reported by another customer, which is attributed to the samet* piece of code in BACKUP, can be found at :  L http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/asktima/operating_systems/CTI_SRC991104002 366.html   Jeff Cameron   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Dec 2002 14:04:22 -06004 From: cornelius@encompasserve.org (George Cornelius)M Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of VMSi3 Message-ID: <ycdJgddbZRH6@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  M In <certain previous articles>, Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes:   K >>> Known third party software products that use MME are Software Partners'TI >>> TapeSys, and MTI's TAPEControl. Some of Compaq/HP's integrated backupgM >>> solutions also use MME. Contact the support for your software product for, >>> absolute determination.X  L > I humbly beg your forgiveness, and I retract my statement the Tapesys usesM > MME as I am 100% incorrect in this matter. I based my statement on the wordlE > of a user of Tapesys who said that Tapesys does provide support for>N > multi-volume backup replication, and based on that I concluded that it wouldL > use MME just as Compaq/HP's backup services and MTI's TapeControl both do.  L We use Compaq's (or is it CA's?) SLS product, based on an earlier version ofK Tapesys, and don't seem to be having problems with restores, other than the-P fact that manual restores - using BACKUP directly instead of going through SLS -M typically require some means other than BACKUP itself for signalling the tape robotics to shift reels.  L Are we safe in assuming that sites like ours which have SLS installed and noJ other layered product backup solution, e.g., ABS, are not affected by this problem?   --9 George Cornelius              cornelius@encompasserve.org 0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:37:20 +0100 (CET)-9 From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@openssl.org>i1 Subject: [ANNOUNCE] OpenSSL 0.9.7 beta 6 releasedV; Message-ID: <20021217.163720.116347925.levitte@openssl.org>n  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  C   The sixth beta release of OpenSSL 0.9.7 is now available from therC   OpenSSL FTP site <URL: ftp://ftp.openssl.org/source/>.  This betah)   contains just a few fixes since beta 5.t  E   This is assumed to be the final beta.  The final release of OpenSSLFD   0.9.7 has been rescheduled for somewhere between Friday 2002-12-27F   to Monday 2002-12-30, mostly because of all the holidays around thatE   time.  To make sure that it will work correctly, please test beta 6eC   thoroughly, for example with your favorite piece of software, andeF   please report back to us!  Also, please test on as many platforms asE   you have available and you have time for, especially on less commonf   platforms.  :   If you're interested in helping further, please join the?   openssl-dev@openssl.org list, where test requests on specifice*   development snapshots will be announced.  8   Changes between 0.9.7 beta 5 and 0.9.7 beta 6 include:  %       o Solaris shared library fixes.m;       o Support for new platforms: Linux 64-bit on Sparc v9iJ       o Now only builds PIC code when shared library support is requested.K       o Makes symbolic links to or copies of manuals to cover all described          functions.       o Dynamic lock bugfixes.O       o Correct DES header protection macros for better backward compatibility.t  D   The full set of changes between 0.9.6{x} and 0.9.7 beta 5 include:  !       o New library section OCSP.r&       o Complete rewrite of ASN1 code.8       o CRL checking in verify code and openssl utility.*       o Extension copying in 'ca' utility.1       o Flexible display options in 'ca' utility.pC       o Provisional support for international characters with UTF8.9C       o Support for external crypto devices ('engine') is no longero          a separate distribution.+       o New elliptic curve library section. +       o New AES (Rijndael) library section.lL       o Support for new platforms: Windows CE, Tandem OSS, A/UX, AIX 64-bit,.         Linux x86_64, Linux 64-bit on Sparc v94       o Extended support for some platforms: VxWorks.       o Enhanced support for shared libraries.J       o Now only builds PIC code when shared library support is requested.       o Support for pkg-config.e       o Lots of new manuals.K       o Makes symbolic links to or copies of manuals to cover all describedr         functions.M       o Change DES API to clean up the namespace (some applications link alsooI         against libdes providing similar functions having the same name).-I         Provide macros for backward compatibility (will be removed in theE         future).H       o Unify handling of cryptographic algorithms (software and engine)N         to be available via EVP routines for asymmetric and symmetric ciphers.3       o NCONF: new configuration handling routines. J       o Change API to use more 'const' modifiers to improve error checking         and help optimizers.,       o Finally remove references to RSAref.*       o Reworked parts of the BIGNUM code.G       o Support for new engines: Broadcom ubsec, Accelerated Encryption          Processing, IBM 4758. 2       o A few new engines added in the demos area.=       o Extended and corrected OID (object identifier) table.eN       o PRNG: query at more locations for a random device, automatic query for6         EGD style random sources at several locations.O       o SSL/TLS: allow optional cipher choice according to server's preference.a@       o SSL/TLS: allow server to explicitly set new session ids.:       o SSL/TLS: support Kerberos cipher suites (RFC2712).$ 	Only supports MIT Kerberos for now.K       o SSL/TLS: allow more precise control of renegotiations and sessions.p;       o SSL/TLS: add callback to retrieve SSL/TLS messages.e5       o SSL/TLS: support AES cipher suites (RFC3268).t      The distribution file name is:  "       o openssl-0.9.7-beta6.tar.gz6         MD5 checksum: 8877ea9643e4d6ac18476bc63015c450  ;   The checksum was calculated using the following commands:   ,     openssl md5 < openssl-0.9.7-beta5.tar.gz   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE------ Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconvo  @ iQEVAwUBPf9EYvTy7ZjgbSyxAQEXDAf/ScZf66H2Xyohs6qrRSLNwuCPIH9QyVCJ@ hzV8eZla8ETmzYQBwZY65+MdciBaVSwaSVOGFGgG++ZDXkD4tO7AppUUxacGzw3C@ OnzY5NKD5nZrUA7ns7aovBGh+okuozRSOYXendPHkizODnxXy259HtlRZ9vqTY9/@ qBPTetptduHzMQadn0mviG6GWUu5m1W5jAFyFY+iD5t2BSilm/LHGQmyOg+1fPdS@ WHV/tpsrvvxYx1+unAkEMRCgViQfNoRq+HvzYQjGGIVukRHfElWluxuFoTOf3rcY8 NaAWalf33NXXQZEVv7QunppJMhJ8efhWVmae5BFFUU/8Qp06g4AeyA== =/D6xr -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:24:59 +0000c% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>rE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]r8 Message-ID: <veorvu01l3dig3tlo4fapd5oedgdfk79m0@4ax.com>  D On 16 Dec 2002 07:13:23 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:   > G >	Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A fellow about ? >	my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons about-C >	TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  IoC >	remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking thegD >	correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeownerG >	finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and matching it upg  + It was always the PL702 line oscillator ;-)     E >	(of course many still called TV repairmen).  Today there is nothing.G >	but a hand full of printed circuit boards.  Thing breaks, get anotherc >	one. >  >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:30:44 -0500   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]e4 Message-ID: <1021216162353.400C-100000@Ives.egh.com>    On 16 Dec 2002, Rob Young wrote:  c > In article <atkiuj$14kk9e$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: , > > In article <3DFD44A0.7040904@rdrop.com>,, > > 	Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > >> Stuart Fuller wrote:l# > >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:s > >>> ! > >>>>Actually, that should read:e > >>>>; > >>>>Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?uG > >>>>A: He keeps swapping in spares until he gets the four good tires.  > >>>f' > >>>>The second one is just not funny.  > >> c* > >>> Actually, neither of them are funny. > >> aL > >> You're right, it's not funny.  But I've seen problems solved with that E > >> approach, all too frequently.  And note that I didn't specify a  H > >> company- I've seen the same basic methodology applied by FSE's (or 4 > >> whatever the title) from all the major players. > >>   > > N > > Bet you never considered that you might be the problem.  Your expectations8 > > are just way to high.       :-)   well, actually :-( > > H > > You wouldn't believe the looks of surprise a few weeks ago when someF > > of the faculty and students came into my research lab and found meK > > sitting over a VS3100 motherboard with a hot soldering iron in my hand.mM > > And we won't even go into the PDP-11/44 with it's power supply all pulledtK > > apart.  But then, board swapping on most of these boxes isn't really an  > > option.r > > K > > It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now synonomousm > > with board-swapping. > >  > H > 	Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A fellow about@ > 	my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons aboutD > 	TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  ID > 	remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking theE > 	correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeownerwH > 	finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and matching it upF > 	(of course many still called TV repairmen).  Today there is nothingH > 	but a hand full of printed circuit boards.  Thing breaks, get another > 	one.e > 	 > 				Rob>  A I suffered with a broken TV (not the primary one) for many years.n@ It had intermittent color.  Sometimes all 3 colors were present,D sometimes there was no red.  (I think, or maybe the red & green gunsF were both firing on the Green signal, or something.  Anyway, it lookedC realy wierd.)  I finally broke down and called a TV repair man.  HeaB came to my house, took one look, said "it's such and so capacitor.C Common problem with NEC's."  He took out his soldering iron, put ineB a new cap in about 5 minutes, and then spent a few minutes gettingC the color balance perfect.  (Before starting, he asked if the soundMC was okay.  Apparently they're not worth fixing if the sound is gone  too.)e  B So I got a perfectly working 20" NEC color TV for about $95, IIRC. This was about 2 years ago.    -- r John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:25:35 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)SE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]l3 Message-ID: <sB9FwnunvzA$@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  g In article <6oplta.m2t.ln@cc49395-b.wodhvn01.mi.comcast.net>, Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> writes:o > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> iJ >> It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now synonomous >> with board-swapping.G >> r > I > Actually, repair == board_swapping predates the PC revolution.  When I eL > first started with DEC, I was trained as a board-swapper.  The "old guys" M > looked down their noses at the new people, saying that a real man did chip   > swapping.r >   C    The older guys looked down on the chip swappers.  Real men tweak:    core.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 07:24:36 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]-3 Message-ID: <r8oI3iVYp+4w@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  U In article <p9Wi+uGQlyrW@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:j  J > My memories of TV repairmen included much slapping the top of the set toJ > see if that fixed a dry joint or bad connection, and indeed when my muchJ > prized  hifi packed up about 1976, I simply went over the likely circuitH > boards with a soldering iron to fix possible suspected joints. Yup, we5 > got circuit diagrams back then with a lot of stuff.2  @    I've just fixed another box that way.  I didn't even have theF    circuit diagrams, I just re-soldered everything on the board.  ThatA    makes 4 things that got fixed that way, 1 that didn't, and I'mnG    planning on doing another this holiday (display on my VCR is gettingi	    weak).s  ?    Must be a fairly common failure mode for electronic cicuits.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:50:51 -0500r5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>hE Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]eO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35F70@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>e  K and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guy laughed atsL me about gettting it fixed - a new vcr can be had for around $50, and they'dL probably charge 20-30 to replace a stupid plastic piece - bad design IMHO to sell new vcr's i& - my parents first vcr lasted 15 years - my first vcr lasted 8e - this last one lasted 1 yeare     -----Original Message-----( From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com] ' Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:31 PMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]       On 16 Dec 2002, Rob Young wrote:  9 > In article <atkiuj$14kk9e$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,  , > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:, > > In article <3DFD44A0.7040904@rdrop.com>,, > > 	Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > >> Stuart Fuller wrote:l# > >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:s > >>> ! > >>>>Actually, that should read:i > >>>>; > >>>>Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?tG > >>>>A: He keeps swapping in spares until he gets the four good tires.p > >>>r' > >>>>The second one is just not funny.a > >>  * > >>> Actually, neither of them are funny. > >> -G > >> You're right, it's not funny.  But I've seen problems solved with i	 > >> thattE > >> approach, all too frequently.  And note that I didn't specify a 1H > >> company- I've seen the same basic methodology applied by FSE's (or 4 > >> whatever the title) from all the major players. > >> e > > A > > Bet you never considered that you might be the problem.  Youra expectations8 > > are just way to high.       :-)   well, actually :-( > > I > > You wouldn't believe the looks of surprise a few weeks ago when some sG > > of the faculty and students came into my research lab and found me .F > > sitting over a VS3100 motherboard with a hot soldering iron in my I > > hand. And we won't even go into the PDP-11/44 with it's power supply eG > > all pulled apart.  But then, board swapping on most of these boxes i > > isn't really an option.l > > A > > It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now  # > > synonomous with board-swapping./ > >  > B > 	Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A fellow about:@ > 	my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons aboutD > 	TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  ID > 	remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking theE > 	correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeownerlE > 	finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and matching iti upF > 	(of course many still called TV repairmen).  Today there is nothing@ > 	but a hand full of printed circuit boards.  Thing breaks, get anothera > 	one.l > 	 > 				Rob   H I suffered with a broken TV (not the primary one) for many years. It hadI intermittent color.  Sometimes all 3 colors were present, sometimes thereuL was no red.  (I think, or maybe the red & green guns were both firing on theG Green signal, or something.  Anyway, it looked realy wierd.)  I finallyoK broke down and called a TV repair man.  He came to my house, took one look,(J said "it's such and so capacitor. Common problem with NEC's."  He took outI his soldering iron, put in a new cap in about 5 minutes, and then spent a:J few minutes getting the color balance perfect.  (Before starting, he askedK if the sound was okay.  Apparently they're not worth fixing if the sound ism gone too.)d  K So I got a perfectly working 20" NEC color TV for about $95, IIRC. This was  about 2 years ago.   -- n John Santos. Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and"J confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication istJ strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/ornJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:18:51 -0000t* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>E Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]eM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3EA97@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>g  E For those who can use a soldering Iron, these broken TV's & VCR's arep@ brilliant, they fill the second-hand market at giveaway prices = (frequently H free) and cost anywhere between 5p & =A310 to repair. I haven't had to = usecF real cash for almost 10 years now on TV equipment, and if the inland = revenueuH is reading this, I've only repaired other people's out of the goodness = of my 	 heart.=20    Andrew Robinsond   >-----Original Message-----e> >From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:William_Bochnik@acml.com]=20 >Sent: 17 December 2002 15:51u >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem] >k >pC >and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guy =o
 laughed at me about gettting it=20 C >fixed - a new vcr can be had for around $50, and they'd probably =w charge 20-30 to replace a stupid=205 >plastic piece - bad design IMHO to sell new vcr's=20a' >- my parents first vcr lasted 15 years- >- my first vcr lasted 8 >- this last one lasted 1 year    
 <big snip>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:18:01 -0500a! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>wE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]e' Message-ID: <3DFF4E39.A1B52959@vcu.edu>i  G my son kept going to the vcr and saying "Ernie".. we thought he'd meanteG that the muppets and sesame street was connect to the vhs tape... well,q after a while, we figured out:  % 1. all of 'em were named ernie to him   C 2. Cookie monster was under the read/write head, and was a magnetica fridge sticker....  " talk about your fuzzy playback....   "Bochnik, William J" wrote:e > M > and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guy laughed atsN > me about gettting it fixed - a new vcr can be had for around $50, and they'dN > probably charge 20-30 to replace a stupid plastic piece - bad design IMHO to > sell new vcr's( > - my parents first vcr lasted 15 years > - my first vcr lasted 8e > - this last one lasted 1 yearp >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com]t) > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:31 PMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComrG > Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]8 > " > On 16 Dec 2002, Rob Young wrote: > : > > In article <atkiuj$14kk9e$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,. > > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:. > > > In article <3DFD44A0.7040904@rdrop.com>,1 > > >     Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:  > > >> Stuart Fuller wrote:s% > > >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:a > > >>> # > > >>>>Actually, that should read:  > > >>>>= > > >>>>Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?aI > > >>>>A: He keeps swapping in spares until he gets the four good tires.r > > >>>i) > > >>>>The second one is just not funny.c > > >>, > > >>> Actually, neither of them are funny. > > >>H > > >> You're right, it's not funny.  But I've seen problems solved with > > >> that:F > > >> approach, all too frequently.  And note that I didn't specify aI > > >> company- I've seen the same basic methodology applied by FSE's (oru6 > > >> whatever the title) from all the major players. > > >> > > >eC > > > Bet you never considered that you might be the problem.  YourO > expectations: > > > are just way to high.       :-)   well, actually :-( > > > J > > > You wouldn't believe the looks of surprise a few weeks ago when someH > > > of the faculty and students came into my research lab and found meG > > > sitting over a VS3100 motherboard with a hot soldering iron in myxJ > > > hand. And we won't even go into the PDP-11/44 with it's power supplyH > > > all pulled apart.  But then, board swapping on most of these boxes > > > isn't really an option.- > > >-B > > > It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now% > > > synonomous with board-swapping.t > > >o > > I > >       Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A fellowi > abouthG > >       my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons about K > >       TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  IsK > >       remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking thesL > >       correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeownerL > >       finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and matching it > upM > >       (of course many still called TV repairmen).  Today there is nothing G > >       but a hand full of printed circuit boards.  Thing breaks, gete	 > anothers > >       one. > > % > >                               Robe > J > I suffered with a broken TV (not the primary one) for many years. It hadK > intermittent color.  Sometimes all 3 colors were present, sometimes thereeN > was no red.  (I think, or maybe the red & green guns were both firing on theI > Green signal, or something.  Anyway, it looked realy wierd.)  I finally M > broke down and called a TV repair man.  He came to my house, took one look, L > said "it's such and so capacitor. Common problem with NEC's."  He took outK > his soldering iron, put in a new cap in about 5 minutes, and then spent aeL > few minutes getting the color balance perfect.  (Before starting, he askedM > if the sound was okay.  Apparently they're not worth fixing if the sound isc > gone > too.)r > M > So I got a perfectly working 20" NEC color TV for about $95, IIRC. This wasn > about 2 years ago. >  > --
 > John Santoss > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 > K > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andvL > confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)N > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentH > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyM > review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is L > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactF > the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theK > original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/orgL > instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying& > out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:25:36 -0500-5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>:E Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]bO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35F73@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>r  I being a bit of a tinker, I want to try to at least patch this problem - =e the,5 part is odd shaped though and hard to see how it fit.S  3 will see what I can do when I have some "free time"      -----Original Message-----4 From: Andrew Robinson [mailto:arobinson@hspg.com]=20) Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:19 AMD To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-E Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]o    E For those who can use a soldering Iron, these broken TV's & VCR's are @ brilliant, they fill the second-hand market at giveaway prices = (frequentlyrH free) and cost anywhere between 5p & =A310 to repair. I haven't had to = userF real cash for almost 10 years now on TV equipment, and if the inland = revenuenH is reading this, I've only repaired other people's out of the goodness = of myr	 heart.=20    Andrew Robinson    >-----Original Message-----Z; >From: Bochnik, William J [mailto:William_Bochnik@acml.com]p >Sent: 17 December 2002 15:51  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF >Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem] >h >iD >and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guy=20 >laughed at  me about gettting it=20bC >fixed - a new vcr can be had for around $50, and they'd probably =l charge 20-30 to replace a stupid=202 >plastic piece - bad design IMHO to sell new vcr's' >- my parents first vcr lasted 15 yearsu >- my first vcr lasted 8 >- this last one lasted 1 year    
 <big snip>    G The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged =4 and@B confidential information and is intended only for the use of the =	 person(s)tH named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or = agentsF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any< review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this = communication isD strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please = contactnD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theD original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders = and/orC instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for =e carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:28:10 -0500U5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> E Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]MO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35F74@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>u  = we use vcr locks to prevent him putting things in the vcr butwG 1 - they can not be in place when a tape is being watched (this was theJ issue here - he kept putting the tape in and taking it out over and over -1 the mechanism that lifts the casette up wore out)3J 2 - he also discovered how to lever one side out, and then use it to forceL the door off the vcr - kid's only 20 months - cant wait to see what he takes apart next.   I he also figured out that "media" goes in the vcr to watch - hasnt figured 2 out the difference between tapes and dvd's yet tho   -----Original Message-----) From: Jim Agnew [mailto:jpagnew@vcu.edu] T) Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:18 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]o    L my son kept going to the vcr and saying "Ernie".. we thought he'd meant thatJ the muppets and sesame street was connect to the vhs tape... well, after a while, we figured out:  % 1. all of 'em were named ernie to himt  J 2. Cookie monster was under the read/write head, and was a magnetic fridge sticker....D  " talk about your fuzzy playback....   "Bochnik, William J" wrote:e > C > and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guy oC > laughed at me about gettting it fixed - a new vcr can be had for -C > around $50, and they'd probably charge 20-30 to replace a stupid Z3 > plastic piece - bad design IMHO to sell new vcr'si( > - my parents first vcr lasted 15 years > - my first vcr lasted 8a > - this last one lasted 1 year) >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com]0) > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:31 PMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComDG > Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]g > " > On 16 Dec 2002, Rob Young wrote: > : > > In article <atkiuj$14kk9e$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,. > > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:. > > > In article <3DFD44A0.7040904@rdrop.com>,1 > > >     Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:e > > >> Stuart Fuller wrote: % > > >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:e > > >>>s# > > >>>>Actually, that should read:  > > >>>>= > > >>>>Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?2C > > >>>>A: He keeps swapping in spares until he gets the four good   > > >>>>tires. > > >>> ) > > >>>>The second one is just not funny.O > > >>, > > >>> Actually, neither of them are funny. > > >>I > > >> You're right, it's not funny.  But I've seen problems solved with bB > > >> that approach, all too frequently.  And note that I didn't  > > >> specify aF > > >> company- I've seen the same basic methodology applied by FSE's : > > >> (or whatever the title) from all the major players. > > >> > > >hC > > > Bet you never considered that you might be the problem.  Youro > expectations: > > > are just way to high.       :-)   well, actually :-( > > >-F > > > You wouldn't believe the looks of surprise a few weeks ago when E > > > some of the faculty and students came into my research lab and eF > > > found me sitting over a VS3100 motherboard with a hot soldering I > > > iron in my hand. And we won't even go into the PDP-11/44 with it's cG > > > power supply all pulled apart.  But then, board swapping on most e, > > > of these boxes isn't really an option. > > >uC > > > It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now t% > > > synonomous with board-swapping.. > > >  > >aC > >       Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A -
 > > fellow > abouteG > >       my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons aboutcK > >       TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  ISK > >       remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking theiL > >       correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeownerA > >       finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and ] > > matching itt > upE > >       (of course many still called TV repairmen).  Today there is. nothingtG > >       but a hand full of printed circuit boards.  Thing breaks, geto	 > another- > >       one. > > % > >                               Robt > G > I suffered with a broken TV (not the primary one) for many years. It r@ > had intermittent color.  Sometimes all 3 colors were present, G > sometimes there was no red.  (I think, or maybe the red & green guns  I > were both firing on the Green signal, or something.  Anyway, it looked eF > realy wierd.)  I finally broke down and called a TV repair man.  He E > came to my house, took one look, said "it's such and so capacitor.  H > Common problem with NEC's."  He took out his soldering iron, put in a G > new cap in about 5 minutes, and then spent a few minutes getting the  F > color balance perfect.  (Before starting, he asked if the sound was A > okay.  Apparently they're not worth fixing if the sound is goner > too.)s > E > So I got a perfectly working 20" NEC color TV for about $95, IIRC. e > This was about 2 years ago.c >  > --
 > John Santosn > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 > H > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged G > and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the  G > person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an vC > employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the gA > intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or rG > duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are eG > not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by aF > reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. Please C > note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructions by  F > e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out such  > orders and/or instructions.     I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andoJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is-J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/ormJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.696 ************************