1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 697       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... $ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks$ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks$ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks# RE: announcing Customer First Times # RE: announcing Customer First Times # RE: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times  Any Florian experts out there?" Re: BIND Resolver cache flush time) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller 2 RE: Compaq's phenomenal stupidity in killing AlphaJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)" Re: Hello Kieth Parris... pls help" Re: Hello Kieth Parris... pls help0 hobbyist first steps (was Re: OpenVMS software?) How to contact Uze Zessin  Re: KFPSA and Alpha Station 255 + Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker 7 Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD ! Re: Problems with Support-Website  Procedure question...  RE: Procedure question... 1 Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library 6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP... SIGNOFF " SIMH 2.10-1 VAX binaries for Win32 Re: VAX 7810's.  Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio 3 Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV 3 Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV ; Re: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ? ; RE: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ? @ Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:47:46 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> : Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...G Message-ID: <6WFL9.14274$s_.10691@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KQ501D2SDE9ZLF2M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com... K > > What if VMS licensing was made FREE on older, less capable systems, VAX L > > and/or Alpha?  No hobbyist restrictions.  Regular production quality VMSJ > > licenses for free, but only on old hardware.  Would this be worthwhile > > for anyone?  > I > Yes, for very, very many.  But not for HP.  That's why it won't happen.  > H > For many, many real-world applications, new hardware is not essential.I > Many folks run high-hit-rate WWW servers on VMS on a VAXstation 3100/38 H > or whatever.  (Think of the millions which have been spent by PHBs whoE > think they need a "server" to run a WWW server.)  Many, but not all I > VMS-based businesses (both current and those which would spring up like H > mushrooms if such licenses were available) could run perfectly well onD > such older hardware.  This would severely impact HP's sales of VMSI > licenses and perhaps of new hardware as well.  (If one has to shell out J > a lot of money for licenses, might as well buy new hardware with support > as well.)  > I > Sure, there are high-end businesses which need the latest and greatest. I > But what were they running on 10 years ago and will the typical startup  > business be that big?  > I > What HP needs to do (and I've repeated this suggestion many times, alas I > with no positive response---Sue and Mark, are you listening AND can you E > do something about it?) is to offer normal commercial licenses at a I > reduced fee for NEW businesses.  Say, 5% of the annual profit.  If this D > fee is more than the normal price, the customer is free to pay the > normal price.  > I > What would happen?  Established businesses would continue to pay, so NO G > LOSS TO HP is involved, neither potential nor real.  MANY, MANY folks B > who, for cost reasons, couldn't otherwise consider VMS for a NEWI > business which might or might not get off the ground would go with VMS. H > If the business fails, HP at worst have lost ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and atH > best have made a small profit.  If the business takes off, it will buy4 > normal licenses AT THE NORMAL PRICE in the future. > J > The point is, the world has changed from the old days when license costsI > were negligible compared to other costs of a company, even though those H > costs might have been much higher in the past.  Hardware was MUCH moreF > expensive, and of course less powerful, so one needed more to do theG > same work.  This means more employees (probably the main cost of most I > companies) and more related costs such as electricity, rent etc.  These H > days, especially with flat-rate internet connections via DSL availableI > for a negligible fee, one guy with a workstation can start up an online F > business, with essentially zero cost.  Sure, if it takes off he willE > have to expand, but not at the beginning.  If, for cost reasons, he F > can't go with VMS from the start, he will go with something else and! > probably not move to VMS later.  > C > This would mean that many more folks could collect real-world VMS ? > experience, which can only be good for HP in the longer term.     A Good idea. Remove as many barriers to entry into VMS as possible.   0 However, you are forgetting one important thing.A It is HP's stated intention to steer all *new* business to HP-UX. G That's why all the best ideas in the world about expanding market share   for VMS will not be implemented.  < And as I read it based on HP's actions to-date, unless a new? customer comes to HP practicaly begging to buy a VMS system, HP E will not suggest that they buy one, much less actively sell them one.   * That's not being negative, just realistic.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:50:17 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks 8 Message-ID: <1d3vvu443jakdm9s11rqf720qva8j9ueul@4ax.com>  F On 17 Dec 2002 09:56:56 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  g >In article <scguvu4lfhrogblod6hs04in22b9bc72e0@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: J >> On 17 Dec 2002 07:16:01 -0800, ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) wrote: >>  I >>>I just find it curious that the INITIALIZE worked, but BACKUP belched.  >>  N >> BACKUP tries to re-create the original disk exactly as it was.  If this hadE >> a cluster factor which is too small for the target disk, it fails.  > C >After an INITIALIZE command that works, I would expect the command + >BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITIALIZE command to work.   L Oops, missed that.  Sounds like another of those sporadic backup bugs.  Time  to search the patches, probably.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 14:21:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks 3 Message-ID: <PRkw0Qb$Iwn0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1d3vvu443jakdm9s11rqf720qva8j9ueul@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:H > On 17 Dec 2002 09:56:56 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > wrote: > h >>In article <scguvu4lfhrogblod6hs04in22b9bc72e0@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:K >>> On 17 Dec 2002 07:16:01 -0800, ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) wrote:  >>> J >>>>I just find it curious that the INITIALIZE worked, but BACKUP belched. >>> O >>> BACKUP tries to re-create the original disk exactly as it was.  If this had F >>> a cluster factor which is too small for the target disk, it fails. >>D >>After an INITIALIZE command that works, I would expect the command, >>BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITIALIZE command to work. > N > Oops, missed that.  Sounds like another of those sporadic backup bugs.  Time" > to search the patches, probably.  < Do you mean that you were already specifying /NOINITIALIZE ?  C If you don't specify /NOINITIALIZE it is supposed to fail (when the , compatible cluster size cannot be achieved).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:27:12 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks 8 Message-ID: <scguvu4lfhrogblod6hs04in22b9bc72e0@4ax.com>  G On 17 Dec 2002 07:16:01 -0800, ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) wrote:   G >I just find it curious that the INITIALIZE worked, but BACKUP belched.   K BACKUP tries to re-create the original disk exactly as it was.  If this had B a cluster factor which is too small for the target disk, it fails.  J I personally prefer to manually initialise all target disks.  That way, ifF anything screws up, it's my lookout.  (Caught once too often with tiny indexf.sys files.)     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:29:51 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>, Subject: RE: announcing Customer First Times0 Message-ID: <01C2A5BF.B5AD1130@sulfer.icius.com>  H I still remember a bunch of sales guys nervously asking how much work itD would be to port from VMS to OpenVMS - on VAX. I have to admit I didF play with them for a while before explaining. In the end I wrote a twoG page "executive briefing" that covered the whole thing. Yes, two pages. E It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than English.    Shane    -----Original Message------ From: David M Smith [mailto:dsmit115@csc.com] ( Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 6:42 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times    , On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:36:07 -0500, JF Mezei! <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>  wrote:  J >In all fairness, VMS was discussed at the top. However, I am puzzled. DidL >Digital really add the "open" in 1991 prior to VMS being available on Alpha in >1992 ?   - According to the OpenVMS FAQ section 2.2 (see 5 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/faq/vmsfaq.txt):   H                    V2.0. When the VMS operating system was ported to theG                    Alpha platform, it was renamed OpenVMS, for both VAX G                    and Alpha (and for the Itanium Processor Family), in A                    part to signify the high degree of support for  industryH                    standards such as POSIX, which provides many features#                    of UNIX systems.    and later in the same section:  E                    What became confusing is that the OpenVMS name was D                    introduced first for OpenVMS AXP V1.0 causing theF                    widespread misimpression that OpenVMS was for AlphaF                    AXP only, while "regular VMS" was for VAX. In fact,D                    the official name of the VAX operating system wasG                    changed as of V5.5, though the name did not start to  be;                    actually used in the product until V6.0. H ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - E David M. Smith 302.391.8533                       dsmit115 at csc dot  com C Computer Sciences Corporation     (Opinions are those of the writer  only) H ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:47:07 -0600 % From: "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> , Subject: RE: announcing Customer First Times> Message-ID: <Xns92E796029D438acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  2 Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> enlightened us with8 news:01C2A5BF.B5AD1130@sulfer.icius.com on 17 Dec 2002:      > > It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than > English.   >  > Shane    > Now THAT deserves a t-shirt/bumper sticker... or a place in a  'quotes' file.   Thanks :-).    -Andy- --  1 "Source code in files.  How quaint."  - Kent Beck    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:14:25 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>, Subject: RE: announcing Customer First Times0 Message-ID: <01C2A5CE.4A9F38F0@sulfer.icius.com>  G Just remember my royalties. A bar of chocolate for small quantities, if / you start making serious bucks, we renegotiate.    Shane    -----Original Message-----* From: -Andy- [mailto:acs@fcgnet.works.net]) Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:47 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: RE: announcing Customer First Times    2 Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> enlightened us with8 news:01C2A5BF.B5AD1130@sulfer.icius.com on 17 Dec 2002:      > > It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than > English.   >  > Shane    > Now THAT deserves a t-shirt/bumper sticker... or a place in a  'quotes' file.   Thanks :-).    -Andy- --  1 "Source code in files.  How quaint."  - Kent Beck    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 14:23:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times3 Message-ID: <JvvqFe9KvY8z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <uvv41ojkb8qccd@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:  >>J >> We are pleased to announce that the first edition of the Customer FirstK >> Times (formerly the Alpha Systems Times) is now available in pdf format.  >>B >> The newsletter has been expanded to include the most up to date > information,M >> program news and product directions for Business Critical Systems products L >> including Alpha, HP e3000, HP 9000, OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX, plus links to >> HPTC, NonStop and Linux.  >> > 6 > Why isn't NSK considered a business critical system?  = They did not say "business critical system", which would be a D descriptive phrase.  They said "Business Critical Systems products",D which means products coming from a particular division.  Nonstop/NSKE come from a different division, which seems appropriate to me because & their hardware needs are so different.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 22:25:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times3 Message-ID: <v5WBEKBTFIfX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <uvvj13756odv22@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:   G > Sorry, I should have said: Why isn't NonStop/NSK part of the Business L > Critical Systems group? I suppose that the unique hardware requirements ofK > NSK is one angle but it seems to make more sense (at least to me) to have H > the Business Critical Systems group handle all of the systems that are2 > business critical and that clearly includes NSK.  C NSK is a world unto itself, and customers expect it to be that way.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:57:04 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times3 Message-ID: <4XGL9.59739$TA6.728441@news.chello.at>   b In article <3DFE715D.57E56E3A@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >David Mathog wrote:5 >> Shoot the marketdroid who made up that awful name.    I second that.  * >> Presumably it's supposed to be read as: >>   >>   "Customer First" Times  >>   >> but I read it as  >>   >>   Customer "First Times"  >  >or: >	"Customer's First Time"  > D >(the later would have required a "Rated R" warning on the cover :-) > J >In all fairness, VMS was discussed at the top. However, I am puzzled. DidO >Digital really add the "open" in 1991 prior to VMS being available on Alpha in  >1992 ?    Yup.  I >Interesting that 5they mention the messaging server. But why use "Compaq L >Office Server" instead of "ALL-IN-1" ? Since both are one and the same, andN >both have been declared mature and not ported beyond Alpha, it is interesting: >that they would mention those products in the newsletter.  L Maybe because someone inside the HPQ does (just like we customers) not agreeJ with the decision to not port ALL-IN-ONE to IPF and let fly a test-balloonG again. So, help him (or her) and vote again for ALL-IN-ONE (and for not I migrating Whitehouse/Pentagon/NSA from OpenVMS to something different)...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:57:08 -0500 0 From: Donnie Vazquez <vazquez@uap2.nrl.navy.mil>' Subject: Any Florian experts out there? 1 Message-ID: <3DFF9DB4.624C3EE8@uap2.nrl.navy.mil>   D Subject pretty much says it all. I have some questions about the VMS utility Florian. --  F //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////E  Donnie Vazquez                                   Phone: 202-404-1298 E  Systems Administrator                              Fax: 202-404-8090 $  Code 7640, Naval Research Lab      E  Washington, D.C. 20375            Internet: vazquez@uap.nrl.navy.mil F //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 11:56:54 -0800. From: kuzishchin@yahoo.com (Kirill Kuzishchin)+ Subject: Re: BIND Resolver cache flush time = Message-ID: <8cab880b.0212171156.36725b92@posting.google.com>   F COMPAQ answered that the INETACP maintains a small cache of 20 entriesF to speed IP <--> hostname lookup for telnet and rlogin. This cache wasD designed with no mechanism to invalidate or delete specific entries,: nor is there a way to disable the cache entirely, short of TCPIP$SHUTDOWN.    Kirill.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 22:20:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller3 Message-ID: <k17WXmVleRH6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3DFF9F75.68C4A799@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:   : > I tried for a while to "destill" output from DECdocument8 > with Destiller but always got a number of font-errors.  H I have never had that problem, using Acrobat Distiller 2.0 on Macintosh.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:24:24 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>; Subject: RE: Compaq's phenomenal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <01C2A5BE.DA978E90@sulfer.icius.com>  G I do believe both statements are true in themselves, there is also much D evidence that plenty of hardcore gamers dislike Windows too but feelF stuck with it. I've already mentioned that they're eyeing the Athlon64H and Opteron greedily, they like new stuff. Having the fastest rig on theF block is a status symbol, and a big expensive Alpha would be excellentD in this role /if/ it ran all the good games faster. (A window in theG side, neon lights, lots of big fans and a built in beer dispenser would  be nice too...)   H To actually have them go with VMS on Alpha though, I think it would haveG to be publicly obvious that all future performance critical games would H also be made available on VMS too, plus the sound and video hardware andC drivers. Deprive me of Doom ]|[, or my next video card upgrade, and C you'd better be wearing body armour. ;-) Ideally provide a range of E other essential software, such as an MS Office compatible suite, too.     Nice dream, but not very likely.   Shane    -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] ' Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 1:12 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha      Shane Smith wrote: > @ > AFAIK, there is no Athlon 3000+ available yet, so I think your > assumption is safe.   G Mr Smith, since you seem to be so keen on games, how would you react to  the  following statements:    1-F Since games require heavy duty CPU, Alpha would have been very popular in theH gaming community if it was affordable and if games were available to run on it.     2-E Assuming (1) is true, *IF* Alpha/VMS had support for some of the most  popular G games which ran significantly faster than on windows, gamers would have  had noG philosophical problems of using VMS to run their games because it would  be theC ultimate workstation. (eg: OS agnostic as long as the OS runs their  games best/fastest).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:53:26 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph ' Message-ID: <3DFF80B6.70207@vajhoej.dk>    Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:   Y > In article <01C2A537.F6AB4900@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: G >>"The AMD Athlon? XP processor with performance-enhancing cache memory D >>features 64K instruction and 64K data cache for a total of 128K L1A >>cache. 256K of integrated, on-chip L2 cache for a total of 384K  >>full-speed, on-chip cache."     D >     In retrospect, 384K does not seem like much at all, especiallyK > when I have a PII 400MHz at home with 512K of cache, and I am typing this A > message on a PII 800MHz notebook with the same amount of cache.   E Remember that Athlon XP is for the home market a very price sensitive  market.   H Intel is still dominant in the business desktop and laptop market, where4 people apperently ar emore willing to pay for cache.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:12:03 -0500 $ From: "rob kas" <rob@netcarrier.net>= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 3 Message-ID: <3dff785b$0$1396$8e9e3842@news.atx.net>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message   A > you better tell the vms group to stop the itanium port then ... = > actually I am hearing otherwise, that vms system sales have A > held steady, mainly because linux and windoze are no where near D > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...= > why would a company want to essentially start over with new > > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms= > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? B > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little= > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features < > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now5 > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!     3     You think wrong................................ ?     No Presence in colleges , Tiny Application pool relative to  Windows/Linux equalsJ     Slow Death in the  General Computing World and Morphing into a DOD --- Fortune 100 niche product.  (                                      Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:29:44 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) ) Message-ID: <3DFF7B28.3050804@vajhoej.dk>    Bob Ceculski wrote:   A > you better tell the vms group to stop the itanium port then ... = > actually I am hearing otherwise, that vms system sales have A > held steady, mainly because linux and windoze are no where near D > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...= > why would a company want to essentially start over with new > > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms= > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? B > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little= > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features < > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now5 > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!     	 Dream on.   " app-server = JBoss : price = 0 USD os = Linux : proce = 0 USD$ 2000 MHz 1 CPU box : price = 500 USD  3 cluster with 10 boxes : price everything = 5000 USD   7 let us say that there are constantly 2 boxes down, then 1 can you get 8 CPU's running VMS for 5000 USD ????    Nope.   5 Uptime >99.9% because it is very unlikely that all 10 ! boxes goes down at the same time.   ) BTW, the technology is called clustering.    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 12:42:20 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 3 Message-ID: <+Nz01lsEVnB5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90>, Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> writes: >>> A further problem for VMS H >>> is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers who areB >>> having to move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the current
 >>> downturn.  > @ >     	We're already seeing this. All the new employee's we hire@ > have zero VMS experience. And this does make a HUGE difference' > on what OS is selected for a project.   H    Never been a problem here.  We use VMS because it's so easy to learn.6    Haven't hired someone with VMS experience in years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:45:57 -0700 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) B Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021217124338.054c5fe0@raptor.psccos.com>  * At 11:42 AM 12/17/2002, Bob Koehler wrote:J >In article <Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90>, Mark Fisher  ><riplips@yahoo.com> writes: > >>> A further problem for VMS J > >>> is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers who areD > >>> having to move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the current > >>> downturn.  > > C > >       We're already seeing this. All the new employee's we hire B > > have zero VMS experience. And this does make a HUGE difference) > > on what OS is selected for a project.  > J >    Never been a problem here.  We use VMS because it's so easy to learn.8 >    Haven't hired someone with VMS experience in years.  K I agree.  For 90% of all VMS programming, I can teach any decent programmer E what they need to know to live and thrive in the VMS environment in a M week (and in fact, I've done so on more than one large-scale, high-visibility I project at previous places of employment).  I think that whole concept of I "hiring a VMS programmer" is really pretty bogus and is highly overrated.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:53:12 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>= Subject: RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 0 Message-ID: <01C2A5C2.FFB42630@sulfer.icius.com>  E The hardest thing is knocking the Unix out of them. I once had a Unix C guy who though the right solution to something was to /replace/ the G print command. "All we've got to do is write a new PRINT.EXE and put it 0 in the right directory, isn't it?". >>>Smack<<<.   Shane    -----Original Message-----, From: Dan O'Reilly [mailto:dano@process.com]) Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:46 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)     * At 11:42 AM 12/17/2002, Bob Koehler wrote:J >In article <Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90>, Mark Fisher  ><riplips@yahoo.com> writes: > >>> A further problem for VMS J > >>> is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers who areD > >>> having to move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the current > >>> downturn.  > > C > >       We're already seeing this. All the new employee's we hire B > > have zero VMS experience. And this does make a HUGE difference) > > on what OS is selected for a project.  > J >    Never been a problem here.  We use VMS because it's so easy to learn.8 >    Haven't hired someone with VMS experience in years.  @ I agree.  For 90% of all VMS programming, I can teach any decent
 programmerE what they need to know to live and thrive in the VMS environment in a = week (and in fact, I've done so on more than one large-scale,  high-visibility F project at previous places of employment).  I think that whole concept of> "hiring a VMS programmer" is really pretty bogus and is highly
 overrated.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 16:34:11 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212171634.5697b2ac@posting.google.com>   i Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90>...   6 > > mainly because linux and windoze are no where nearF > > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...? > > why would a company want to essentially start over with new @ > > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms? > > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? D > > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little? > > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features > > > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now7 > > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!  >    > ; >     	This scenario has been played out. So what if VMS is > > "better" (which I agree with). There is no VMS talent, Alpha? > HW is too expensive, VMS OS license price makes people faint, ? > and nobody cares about security, reliability or availability. > > The expectations have been dramatically lowered in the past ; > 5-8 years. IT projects are willing to sacrifice all these > > wonderfull idea's for cheap, cheap, cheap solutions. Get the? > project on-line and let the poor support slobes deal with the  > problems.  > + >     	It's a sad but true fact of life now   @ alphas expensive?  you can buy a ds10l from island now for $700!= add a vms license and you are talking another $400 ... we buy = licensed alphas at reduced prices all the time ... I hope you @ know you don't have to buy your first system brand spanking new!A You should get in on an end of life or unused system at a reduced B price ... I still know were you can buy an alphaserver 4100 unusedB for $3900 w/license ... whether you are buying one large system or> need many workstations and small servers like our environment,A you can afford vms if you shop around and buy it right ... sounds 6 like you don't know where to look for your systems ...   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 16:38:17 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212171638.1649b45e@posting.google.com>   \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2A5C2.FFB42630@sulfer.icius.com>...G > The hardest thing is knocking the Unix out of them. I once had a Unix E > guy who though the right solution to something was to /replace/ the I > print command. "All we've got to do is write a new PRINT.EXE and put it 2 > in the right directory, isn't it?". >>>Smack<<<. >  > Shane  >   ? actually, once they start learning vms, they say they prefer it > over unix ... we had an html unix guy help design our web site< and he picked up vms quickly, and stated that he could do so% much more easier on vms than unix ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:57:59 -0500 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> + Subject: Re: Hello Kieth Parris... pls help * Message-ID: <atns42$fch$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Hal,  G I can not find the HSG message however I have recevied a couple of mail ? messages. so I sent a message to the project leader here is VMS    Hi,   K I am the HBVS project leader . and there are no plans that I am aware of to  EOL it.    Where did that FUD start?    Regards,   john   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 12:54:04 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) + Subject: Re: Hello Kieth Parris... pls help 3 Message-ID: <9M0HHwPwABrq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <atns42$fch$1@web1.cup.hp.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> writes: > Hal, > I > I can not find the HSG message however I have recevied a couple of mail A > messages. so I sent a message to the project leader here is VMS  >  > Hi,  > M > I am the HBVS project leader . and there are no plans that I am aware of to 	 > EOL it.  >  > Where did that FUD start?  > 
 > Regards, >  > john >    Sue,  ; 	It is in the context of shadowing dissimilar devices.  The < 	thread title and some other context from groups.google.com:  = Subject: Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV  $ View: Complete Thread (4 articles)   Original Format  Newsgroups: comp.os.vms  Date: 2002-12-16 16:53:19 PST     5 "David Harrold" <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote in message 2 news:l4csvu8ip7ln4mdgt6c247j571im2e7o0t@4ax.com...H > On Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:13:57 -0500, kuff@comcast.net (Cable NJ) wrote: > >2I > >We have several EMA16000 and EVA systems.  We're thinking about VolumeaF > >Shadowing between the EMA and EVA systems.  In that case, where theG > >Volume Shadowing Doc Set says that the target disks (VMS 7.2-2) mustn, > >have the same number of logical blocks... > > J > >Now, given that the EMA HSG80 system can allocate space as two mirroredG > >36 gb storageworks drives as a unit, how does one insure that a uniteJ > >published to the SAN from an EVA has the same number of logical blocks. >iL > Well, I'm considering doing that in reverse.  I'll allocate a volume (sizeK > less than the corresponding device on the EMA) on the EVA first, find theiN > number of blocks for that volume and then partition the device on the EMA to > be that same size.    = 	Last I checked shadowing dissimilar devices was/is post 7.3.n   				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 19:41:29 -0800: From: craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry)9 Subject: hobbyist first steps (was Re: OpenVMS software?) = Message-ID: <7f15589f.0212171941.19a6d57b@posting.google.com>e  = In article <a7234bb1.0212170912.600c9f50@posting.google.com>,p)  timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) wrote:   H >    I have been there before but I am getting lost in following links. ( > Can you provide a more direct link for > a) Ordering Vms 7.x CDsr  - <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html>.  # > b) Ordering the hobbyist license.s  E First get a free associate membership from the society formerly knownm	 as DECUS:p  ; <https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm>   * (or local DECUS branch if not in the U.S.)  C Then go back to Montagar and get licenses for the OS and also (in a $ separate step) for layered products:  8 <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html>  E While you are waiting for things (membership, licenses, media, etc.),i% do read carefully the OpenVMS FAQ at:v  8  <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html>     > thanks for being patient.   > Thank *you* for being patient.  OpenVMS itself will repay yourD persistence, but it is harder than it should be to get started.  TheA Montagar hobbyist pages are an embarrassing hodge-podge of inside E jokes.  For example, lurking under "MOUNT/MEDIA=CDROM" on the left ofeC the screen is a link to the page where you can order hobbyist media 8 kits, which happen to come on CD-ROM, though the commandD "MOUNT/MEDIA=CDROM" would be the wrong way to mount one of these CDsC since they are in a native VMS format and not in ISO 9660, which isl; what that command implies.   That's just one example of thevE newbie-unfriendly nature of the site.  I don't think the well-meaningyF Montagar folks who volunteer their time intended to be inscrutable; itF just never occurred to them that someone who wasn't already an OpenVMSE guru might be interested (or they just have a really bad sense of web F design).  They have also not updated the kits in three years (and haveC sold out of VAX kits), and whenever this comes up claim to have newkE kits in the works real soon now.  One wishes they would either get itl done or ask for help.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:57:39 +0100o6 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois=20PI=C9RONNE?= " Subject: How to contact Uze Zessin+ Message-ID: <3DFF0323.88AAA796@laposte.net>.   Hi all,u  H I am trying to contact Uwe Zessin, I have tried unsuccessfully using his decus.de address.n, Do someone know a valid address to join him?  P I am currently working with one of the maintainer of Python to integrate OpenVMS' support into the standard distribution.iP As Uwe has done a lot of work on older port, some patches are partially based on	 his work. N But he has put a license which seem incompatible with Python license, so it isM currently not possible to include these patches except if he accept to changes" his license into a compatible one.   Thanks,     
 Jean-Franois?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 14:23:16 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) ( Subject: Re: KFPSA and Alpha Station 255= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0212171423.2fdce6c3@posting.google.com>h  U hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<at3hi0$sr8$8@web1.cup.hp.com>...oH >   DSSI would not be my first choice here, given its age and its ratherH >   low performance (roughly that of SCSI-1), and given the availabilityJ >   of various integrated and PCI-based SCSI options (and the SCSI storage8 >   devices, of course) for the AlphaStation 255 series.  D The poster didn't say why he was considering DSSI.  It may have been@ as a cluster interconnect rather than as a storage interconnect.  E I think over the last few years DSSI has been deprecated more than itlC deserves.  Unlike the early asynchronous SCSI-1 at 1.5 MB/sec, DSSI F runs in synchronous mode at 4 Mhz (giving a theoretical bandwidth of 4E megabytes per second for its byte-wide bus).  I measured lock request E latency on DSSI at 332 microseconds, which is a bit slower than a LANsA adapter (230-270 microseconds, depending on flavor), but actuallydA faster than CI's 440 microseconds (and a KFPSA takes one PCI slotwF compared with two for the CI adapter).  It has lower host CPU overheadB for SCS communications than a LAN adapter would.  For a low-end orC hobbyist system where 10-megabit Ethernet (at 1.25 MB/sec) might berD the alternative, or where CPU power is precious, DSSI can look good.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 09:23:59 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker5 Message-ID: <20021217092359.9739.qmail@nym.alias.net>l  E On 16 DEC 2002, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) wrote:n  E >It's definitely an eye opening tool and lets you know what you're upHE >against. It's certainly going to make me rethink our password lengthe >policy. >n3 >Many thanks to Jean-loup for the VMS work on this.-  F I believe Jean-Loup has done some additional work on it to resolve the issue reported by Bob Koehler.     Doc. -- K: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.netp   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:46:41 -0500b5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com>r@ Subject: Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD* Message-ID: <atnuvb$h6o$1@web1.cup.hp.com>   Mike,t5 I have sent your mail to Signe who owns this project.B   suer  1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message $ news:00A18981.BDAF3729.5@decus.de...8 > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@hp.nospam.com> wrote: > 	 > > [...]c > >d1 > > Customers can order from the external web at:M> > > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/business_solutions_cd.html> > > 1 > > Please let me know if you have any questions.a >  > .. which opens a new page- >-J > http://www.webfulfillment.com/kphp/webevent/regques.asp?EventCode=574282 >mF > After filling in the required data and sending it ("submit") I got aH > "VB scripting error" (don't remember the exact phrasing); trying again > later I got a message saying:4 >c! > "The following errors occurred:o? > We recognize the fact that you have already responded to thisp; > questionnaire. Unfortunately, you may only respond once."h >b; > So there is no chance to get a copy of this CD obviously.o >u	 > Michael  > E > PS: "... Scripting" (Visual Basic, Java, ...) is disabled of course  > for security reasons.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 08:45:36 +0100t2 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at>* Subject: Re: Problems with Support-WebsiteG Message-ID: <3dfed622$0$24282$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at>o  C "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> schrieb im NewsbeitragZA news:3dfdc1e7$0$25426$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at...f > Hi!s >aL > Is it just me, who is unable to reach http://ftp.support.compaq.com or ist. > the site down, or has its location changed ? >y > Ren >e >y  K It seems that the DNS-Server for support.compaq.com wasn't working for somet time.i  ) Meanwhile everything is running smoothly.a   Ren   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 11:44:21 -0800- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva)i Subject: Procedure question...= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0212171144.58ea8bfc@posting.google.com>,  I I need create a procedure to show magtape operations counter in the VT400e terminal. Like this:    ,                 MagTape Operations:  8324562    N This informations it must stay freeze in the screen (only numbers increasing).  K If I issue a command (like sh dev d, for example), the "MagTape Operations"a    must stay freeze in the screen.    How can I make this using DCL ?C   Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:49:09 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>" Subject: RE: Procedure question...0 Message-ID: <01C2A5C2.6FF438F0@sulfer.icius.com>  ? Probably the simplest is to use the VT100 escape sequences. UserE ESC+"[2J" to clear the screen, and ESC+"[r;cH" to position the cursoroD replacing the "r" with the row number from the top, and "c" with theG column number counting from the left. For example, ESC+"[1;5H" puts the H cursor on the top line, five columns in. If the output's consistent, you@ will only need the cursor positioning in the loop. I suggest youH remember to print a few blank characters at the end of the number, so if? something resets it the old digits to the right will be clearedi automatically.  H If necessary I can provide an example offline, that gives a running viewC of a process' quotas. Let me know. It's got inline NPC's (I know, IrG know, bad practice - it's just a quick Noddy) so it'd be bad netiquetter to post it.    Shane    -----Original Message-----< From: contracer11@uol.com.br [mailto:contracer11@uol.com.br]) Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:44 AMo To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Procedure question...    C I need create a procedure to show magtape operations counter in thef VT400  terminal. Like this:    ,                 MagTape Operations:  8324562    A This informations it must stay freeze in the screen (only numbersy increasing).  ? If I issue a command (like sh dev d, for example), the "MagTapeP Operations"r    must stay freeze in the screen.    How can I make this using DCL ?    Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 03:53:48 -0800% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o: Subject: Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library) Message-ID: <atn38c016qa@drn.newsguy.com>   K In article <6B80E71673E6D611AC1D0008C7F37BC254B977@wt15.wt.tno.nl>, "Waard,  says...  >e >Dear members of this list,r >n% >I have a little question to ask you;d > Q >I want to use an 'old' TZ887 on our OVMS Alpha (7.2) system, but don't know if I L >need special software/license to use it. Its a DLT tape drive with a 7 tapeL >magazine in it. I managed to get it work with only 1 tape. But not with theI >automatic tape loader. Is there a special setting to use this function? h? >Can/will anyone explain/tell me which software/license I need?-M >At the moment we use an dcl procedure to backup our system on an tlz06l tapee@ >unit with a 4 tape magazine, but is not working with the tz887.  N Go into configuration and set the library to "sequential" mode. The drive willN automatically load the next tape when requested to by BACKUP at the end of theK volume. You only need "robot" software if you need to access the tapes in a  non-sequential mode.   >TIA,a >a3 >Dannie de Waard                     TNO Automotive 8 >                                    Crash-Safety Centre3 >Phone: +31 (0)15 2696015            P.O. Box 6033,-4 >Fax:   +31 (0)15 2572104            2600 JA,  DELFT4 >E-Mail:DeWaard@wt.tno.nl            The Netherlands# >URL: http://www.automotive.tno.nl/m > H >This e-mail and its contents are subject to a DISCLAIMER with importantA >RESERVATIONS:  http://www.automotive.tno.nl/smartsite.dws?id=886i >      ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:09:27 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...,. Message-ID: <3DFF7664.595087E@vl.videotron.ca>   Ken Randell wrote:A > the genome research outfits (Celera?) recently (few months ago)>E > announce they were moving from Tru64 on Alpha to a IBM Power setup?     M Yes, but it takes time before maintenance contracts lapse and they may retainlL those alphas for some time until theyr are fully replaced. During this time,& HP can still claim them as a customer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:42:05 +0100 (CET)-' From: SWARS@mailer.MPI-STUTTGART.MPG.DE0 Subject: SIGNOFF< Message-ID: <01KQ64BCVZZ68WY2PN@MAILER.MPI-STUTTGART.MPG.DE>   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 19:50:46 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)+ Subject: SIMH 2.10-1 VAX binaries for Win32m< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0212171950.7e59f896@posting.google.com>  2 http://filbert.tubas.net/~kstailey/simh/index.html   You will also need  7 http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a4.exee   from n  , http://winpcap.polito.it/install/default.htm  0 since the packet capture drives are not bundled.  7 If you try it let me know if this works for you or not.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:02:39 -0000d8 From: "Leigh Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: VAX 7810's.. Message-ID: <atns6a$71e$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  L Route is identical i.e. one is unplugged and the other plugged in its place.   -- Leigh G. Bowden.# http://www.bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.ukp! LGBowden#bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.ukn +44 161 477 2526   Opinions are mine alone.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 22:21:27 -0600+ From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg)g$ Subject: Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio3 Message-ID: <ASRgBx9JtCi7@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  ; In article <3dff8083$0$30074$fb624cd1@news1.zeelandnet.nl>,j$ "hb1nos" <hb1nos@hb1nos.com> writes: > Hi," >oC > Is there someone who has experince with VAX-VMS and Packetradio ?t  ( I have run a PACCOM Tnc-2 on a MicroVAX.  M > I would like to use me VAX-3100/90 as a packetradio station, working with ae
 > TNC21S..  E I rigged up some quick and dirty DCL scripts with the Packet Modem inyJ single session mode that allowed remote users to send me e-mail, and a few= other things, including playing the classic "Adventure" game.m  O I used a DHU-11 for the serial port, as using the Packet Modem needs full modeme control.  O Be aware that I have one model of Packet Modem that has the serial line signals F wired wrong internally.  It is sending the DSR signal on the RTS line.  O I also have a program that puts the Packet Modem in "RAW" mode, and it displaysv  a formatted dump of the packets.  ( The typical packet modem has four modes:   Single session mode.   Multiple session mode.   RXBLOCKs   RAW   I The RXBLOCK mode was intended for computer to packet modem communication, N unfortunately it does not provide the sender or receiver of the packets to theO computer, making it useless for anything other than a dedicated telemetry link.   8 The single session mode can be used with simple scripts.  O Multiple session mode prefixes lines displayed with the session letter, and cana= be used with some client programs to track multiple sessions.e  N It can not be used by a computer in "Bulletin Board" mode, because the sessionF prefixes are only displayed if there are more than one session active.    L That leaves "raw" mode.  In raw mode, you get the raw AX.25 data packet, andL the computer must do all the session encoding and decoding, and negotiation.    K The other difficulty with accessing OpenVMS programs from a Packet Modem is M that the Packet Modem is 1/2 duplex, and sends a line at a time.  So programs J that wait for and expect only a single key press do not work well with it.  K This caused some interesting dialogs with the Adventure game in some cases.l    5 I hope to get this running again soon at my home QTH.    -73  John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:36:10 -0500n# From: "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net>>< Subject: Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSVO Message-ID: <C86395B83326A57F.CB734DBDBB3A1F7D.05F38157431B4582@lp.airnews.net>q  J Ok,  talked to some great people in OpenVMS engineering and product group:  &     Here is what it looks like so far:  K         1). Lets assume you have a 36gb unit derived from a hardware mirrors of 2 36gb drives on an HSG80*                 (Mount it /Nowrite now...)J         2). Create a mirrored unit on the EVA of say 35 gb... see how many logical blocks that comes toG         3). Create a partitioned unit equal in LBN size from a new 36gb- hardware mirror on the HSG80A         4). Create a single member shadowset from the EVA storageKH         5). Copy the data from the old HSG unit to the new EVA shadowset=         6). Add the new HSG unit as a member of the shadowsete9         7). Re-use the old HSG member for something else.o  I .  In my opinion one twist is that the way the two systems do I/O and thedI overwhelming speed of the EVA vs HSG based system would cause one to wantaL for some local benchmarking against one HSG system doing hardware mirroring.I We'll need to see if there is indeed a measurable hit for our applicationi across architectures.r  J     Engineering and product development both believe there are sites doingH this, so we'd all like to hear about it!  Thanxs to Sue S., a chap namedI John AtoZ, Andy S., and the local guys Chris and Ed for helping us pursue  this.e        . "Cable NJ" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote in messageI news:A95EE9E55FFD6009.B465DB25544EB3F7.A02AE9EC84650C9D@lp.airnews.net...a >rH > We have several EMA16000 and EVA systems.  We're thinking about VolumeE > Shadowing between the EMA and EVA systems.  In that case, where thesF > Volume Shadowing Doc Set says that the target disks (VMS 7.2-2) must+ > have the same number of logical blocks.... >uI > Now, given that the EMA HSG80 system can allocate space as two mirroredoF > 36 gb storageworks drives as a unit, how does one insure that a unitI > published to the SAN from an EVA has the same number of logical blocks.4   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 20:10:16 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) < Subject: Re: Volshad between different Storageworks HSG<>HSV= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0212172010.3ef46d11@posting.google.com>g  $ "Hal Kuff" <kuff@comcast.net> wrote:B >        4). Create a single member shadowset from the EVA storageI >        5). Copy the data from the old HSG unit to the new EVA shadowsetm  D One might save a shadow-copy operation here by using the new /SHADOWE qualifier on the $INITIALIZE command, which would allow you to form axD 2-member shadow set initially and then copy the data over to it as a set.  F (Note that any difference in the unallocated blocks on the disks wouldD remain different until the first merge operation, so the first mergeF might take longer as it fixes those up (unless you included the /ERASEE qualifier on the $INITIALIZE, in which case the unallocated areas areS erased to identical values).)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 02:24:24 +0100,  From: "T.R." <tr303@hotmail.com>D Subject: Re: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ?5 Message-ID: <atoinn$19s6q$1@ID-172475.news.dfncis.de>h  2 "Ton den Hartog" <tonh@xs4all.nl> wrote in message0 news:3dffc01f$0$88861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... > Hi,e >aL > are there any people from the Netherlands in this group ? I am looking for3 > contact with companies or people that use OpenVMSp >t$ > Ton den Hartog, ICT Automatisering >hG Here's one ;-)... only in lurking mode tough, until I get the chance to " finish my home-built Alpha system.   -- Te   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:23:52 -0800a$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>D Subject: RE: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ?0 Message-ID: <01C2A5F1.36500370@sulfer.icius.com>  C We look forward to you coming out of the closet^H^H^H^H^H^H machines room. Good luck.   Shanel   -----Original Message-----% From: T.R. [mailto:tr303@hotmail.com]a( Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 5:24 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComSD Subject: Re: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ?      2 "Ton den Hartog" <tonh@xs4all.nl> wrote in message0 news:3dffc01f$0$88861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... > Hi,> >hL > are there any people from the Netherlands in this group ? I am looking for3 > contact with companies or people that use OpenVMSt >e$ > Ton den Hartog, ICT Automatisering >hG Here's one ;-)... only in lurking mode tough, until I get the chance tos" finish my home-built Alpha system.   -- To   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:20:36 GMTr+ From: Jeff Cameron <JCam90502@jcameron.com>mI Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions ofr2 Message-ID: <BA250D5F.25C5%JCam90502@jcameron.com>  F On 12/17/02 7:04 AM, in article GU7hhdslnvsp@eisner.encompasserve.org,0 "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:  A > In article <BA240B76.2540%JCam90502@jcameron.com>, Jeff Cameron3" > <JCam90502@jcameron.com> writes: > O >> Likewise, any site who can restore from savesets that span DLT tape volumes,oO >> either does not have the problem, or had MME disabled at the time the backupt >> savesets were written.d > 2 > Are you saying this problem is specific to DLT ?B In the many tests that we (My company, two other companies and VMSL Engineering) did, we could only reproduce the problem on some DLT drives. WeI could not duplicate the problem on 8MM, 4mm, or 9000 series IBM tapes. AssI stated in the original article, "Compaq has not done a study to determineoJ which tape devices do or do not have the problem." The section of the codeL in BACKUP where the problem(s) exist handle many different conditional tests6 for different devices under many different conditions.  I It is apparent that not all DLT's are subject to the problem, but it does + not necessarily exclude other tape devices.t   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.697 ************************