1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 18 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 698       Contents:1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... 1 Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ... $ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks$ Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disksG Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...") P Re: Andrew's right - FW: FedCIRC Advisory FA-2002-35 Vulnerability in  RaQ 4 Ser: Announcement: Compaq Secure Web Server Security Patch Kits# Re: announcing Customer First Times # RE: announcing Customer First Times ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller 2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphaP Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph AlphA CSWB (mozilla for VMS) problem.  DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership  DECwindows vs TCPIP startup 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)* Re: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ???$ Enabling Adaptec on DS20 (not DS20e)1 Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info 4 Re: hobbyist first steps (was Re: OpenVMS software?)& MAXJOBS definition Was: Login lexical?, MX 4.2 on VMS 7.7-2 w/ TCP/IP Services ECO 3 MX linelength patch  MX linelength patch  Re: MX linelength patch  Re: MX linelength patch ! New home for DEC 3000 model 300LX + Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker  Re: OpenVMS software? 7 Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD 7 Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  Re: Procedure question... 1 Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library 1 Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library 6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...6 Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP... smtp  problem? Re: smtp  problem? RE: smtp  problem?$ Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems TCPIP: IMAP on VAX buglet # Re: Tracking down a TOP CPU Problem  Re: VAX 7810's.  VAX-VMS and Packetradio  Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio  Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio  Re: VM web ring & spam We need your DS10's ; Re: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ? < Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:36:39 -0800 & From: faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...8 Message-ID: <qim20v824dgl5el830d1m7pjc9da7l0g59@4ax.com>  E  Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ,  emitted these 
 fragments:   > Many, but not all I >VMS-based businesses (both current and those which would spring up like  , >mushrooms if such licenses were available)   B I rather doubt that new VMS based businesses would "spring up like mushrooms".    VMS has very little mind share.   < In addition, finding anyone who  VMS expertise is difficult.  D New businesses are far more likely to be using Linux or some flavour of Windows.   8 --------------------------------------------------------	 Come see,  real flowers of this pain-filled world.   (from Basho)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:37:52 -0800 & From: faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...8 Message-ID: <bom20vsubqbh44cit2gv9dnsmmvm49n8uf@4ax.com>  :  "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ,  emitted these fragments:  1 >However, you are forgetting one important thing. B >It is HP's stated intention to steer all *new* business to HP-UX.  ' I guess that it is rational to do that. A After all, they are trying to position HP-UX as an alternative to  Linux and Windows.  8 --------------------------------------------------------	 Come see,  real flowers of this pain-filled world.   (from Basho)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 11:58:39 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>: Subject: Re: "VMS will be around long after we retire" ...5 Message-ID: <20021218115839.1434.qmail@nym.alias.net>   < On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au> wrote:F > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ,  emitted these >fragments:  >  >> Many, but not all  J >>VMS-based businesses (both current and those which would spring up like - >>mushrooms if such licenses were available)   > C >I rather doubt that new VMS based businesses would "spring up like 
 >mushrooms".   >   >VMS has very little mind share.  J Yes, well there are a lot of people here who repeatedly complain about theF lack of efforts to change this. It is the responsibility of the owners& de-jour of VMS to deal with the issue.  - As to why they don't appear to be doing so...   F Please select your preferred conspiracy theory and join a faction. :-}  = >In addition, finding anyone who  VMS expertise is difficult.   K The principles of setting up, securing, and running a computer system don't 5 differ that much between competing operating systems.   E >New businesses are far more likely to be using Linux or some flavour  >of Windows.   Sad, but true.  E <insert long list of things that could/should be done about it here.>      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Dec 2002 09:56:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks 3 Message-ID: <zkZL9kzHrWZz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <scguvu4lfhrogblod6hs04in22b9bc72e0@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:I > On 17 Dec 2002 07:16:01 -0800, ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) wrote:  > H >>I just find it curious that the INITIALIZE worked, but BACKUP belched. > M > BACKUP tries to re-create the original disk exactly as it was.  If this had D > a cluster factor which is too small for the target disk, it fails.  B After an INITIALIZE command that works, I would expect the command* BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITIALIZE command to work.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:54:06 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> - Subject: Re: %BACKUP-F-CLUSTER on ODS-5 disks 8 Message-ID: <ffavvugevnmr47sr0qe7ga9spq8njmeu9i@4ax.com>  G On 17 Dec 2002 07:16:01 -0800, ultrajoe@spamcop.net (Joe Sewell) wrote:   G >What I *didn't* know was that the disks in use were NOT 18GB, 36GB, or E >larger.  Indeed, they were 9GB disks, which wanted a cluster size of  >18.   At least 18, to be precise.   G >I just find it curious that the INITIALIZE worked, but BACKUP belched.   I Is it vaguely possible that there are a very large number of files on the F source disk and that it has a smaller cluster size, such that a largerJ cluster size on the target disk could cause an overflow, by "wasting" moreJ space ?  On average, half a cluster is lost.  If you'd gone from a clusterH size of 18 to 35 and had 100000 files, then you'd need 0.85 million freeA blocks on the source disk for the backup to succeed.  Roughly ;-)      	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:57:23 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>P Subject: Re: (Very) Affordable VMS on older gear (was: "VMS will be around ...")/ Message-ID: <3DFF819E.C2F9406F@vl.videotron.ca>    One more thought:   S The one advantage to HP of giving away VMS licenses at the low end is that it will:   6 -give VMS growth momentum, allowing positive marketing  F -and more importantly, it will attract more applications. And the moreT applications there are, the more likely HP gets to make a real sale worth megabucks.  K VMS may never get huge marketshare, but it may get sufficient visibility to " grow and thrive and expand slowly.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 05:22:36 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: Andrew's right - FW: FedCIRC Advisory FA-2002-35 Vulnerability in  RaQ 4 Ser - Message-ID: <87el8gibmr.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   3 John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:   A > And how many security alerts for Sun does that make this year ?    + > I recall about 3 in the last 2 months ...   8 Better than Hourly Patches, with 4 in one day last week.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:40:18 -0500 + From: "Rick Barry" <barry@star.zko.dec.com> C Subject: Announcement: Compaq Secure Web Server Security Patch Kits 3 Message-ID: <w0ML9.42$m%2.2028673@news.cpqcorp.net>   : Announcement: Compaq Secure Web Server Security Patch KitsB ------------------------------------------------------------------  > Security patch kits for Compaq Secure Web Server are available for download from:  K http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws_patches.html   E If you have enabled SSL support for your CSWS server, Hewlett-Packard F recommends that you apply this patch by downloading and installing the) kit corrsponding to your version of CSWS.    CSWS13_UPDATE V1.0 (CSWS 1.3)  CSWS12_UPDATE V5.0 (CSWS 1.2)   CSWS111_UPDATE V4.0 (CSWS 1.1-1)  ' The kits correct the following problem:   H          SSL (HTTPS) connections do not timeout during the SSL handshakeF          phase causing SSL connections to remain open until the clientJ          closes the connection or the server is restarted. This can result          in denial-of-service.  H          When this problem occurs, every Apache server process is placedH          in a local event flag (LEF) wait state and the number of serverJ          processes reaches the value specified by the MaxClients directive          in httpd.conf.   D With this kit applied, SSL connections will timeout according to theD value you specify for the Timeout directive in your httpd.conf file.   Regards,  
 Rick Barry  C Hewlett Packard Company       Compaq Secure Web Server Project Team ; 110 Spit Brook Road           OpenVMS System Software Group < Nashua, NH  03062             Business Critical Server Group (603) 884-0634   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:59:35 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times/ Message-ID: <uvv41ojkb8qccd@news.supernews.com>    > I > We are pleased to announce that the first edition of the Customer First J > Times (formerly the Alpha Systems Times) is now available in pdf format. > A > The newsletter has been expanded to include the most up to date  information,L > program news and product directions for Business Critical Systems productsK > including Alpha, HP e3000, HP 9000, OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX, plus links to  > HPTC, NonStop and Linux. >   4 Why isn't NSK considered a business critical system?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:55:23 -0600 % From: "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> , Subject: RE: announcing Customer First Times> Message-ID: <Xns92E7B5ED39EA7acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  2 Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> enlightened us with8 news:01C2A5CE.4A9F38F0@sulfer.icius.com on 17 Dec 2002:   5 >> Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> enlightened us with ; >> news:01C2A5BF.B5AD1130@sulfer.icius.com on 17 Dec 2002:   >>   >>  @ >>> It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than
 >>> English.   >>> 	 >>> Shane  >>  A >> Now THAT deserves a t-shirt/bumper sticker... or a place in a   >> 'quotes' file.   	 >> -Andy-   : > Just remember my royalties. A bar of chocolate for small@ > quantities, if you start making serious bucks, we renegotiate.  ? Do you have a preference for the type of chocolate ? Something  ) regional ? Something mass produced ? :-).    -Andy- --  % %LNG-W-WEASEL  Weasel words detected.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:27:36 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller' Message-ID: <3E003178.F95E9DB7@aaa.com>   ) OK. I'm using Destiller for Windows 4.05.   @ Anyway, my "build" command file on VMS now goes from SDML to PDFA in one (possible in batch) run. And puts the PDF on a SAMBA share 1 where I can open it with Acrobat Reader directly.   F Works pretty OK, so I havn't looked further on the Destiller solution.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > e > In article <3DFF9F75.68C4A799@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  > < > > I tried for a while to "destill" output from DECdocument: > > with Destiller but always got a number of font-errors. > J > I have never had that problem, using Acrobat Distiller 2.0 on Macintosh.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:04:37 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller' Message-ID: <3DFF9F75.68C4A799@aaa.com>   1 Doesn't solve your problem with Destiller, but...   8 I tried for a while to "destill" output from DECdocument6 with Destiller but always got a number of font-errors.9 Swapped to Ghostscript with the PDF-driver instead. Works 8 just fine. But, as said, this is output from DECdoc, not? from Bookreader. If you don't want to setup Ghostscript just to C test, you could send me one of your PS files (ZIPed and "attached") : to jan-erik.soderholm-at-pac-dot-ericsson-dot-com and I'll try it right away in my setup.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > J > I'm wondering if anyone has successfully used DECW$BOOKREADER to produceC > .PS output can then convert that to .PDF using Acrobat distiller.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:13:36 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller/ Message-ID: <v017lhjf4voca7@news.supernews.com>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3DFFE6A0.A46FD4FE@fsi.net...  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > > 5 > > Doesn't solve your problem with Destiller, but...  > > < > > I tried for a while to "destill" output from DECdocument: > > with Destiller but always got a number of font-errors.= > > Swapped to Ghostscript with the PDF-driver instead. Works < > > just fine. But, as said, this is output from DECdoc, notC > > from Bookreader. If you don't want to setup Ghostscript just to G > > test, you could send me one of your PS files (ZIPed and "attached") > > > to jan-erik.soderholm-at-pac-dot-ericsson-dot-com and I'll" > > try it right away in my setup. > E > As it turns out, yes, the .PS output from BookReader is essentially G > trash for my purpose. I spoke to a nice person at CSC who provided me H > .PS for the print-quality doc.'s, and that distilled just fine. Now, I0 > just need to find a printer with a duplexer... >   K I have setup modules for DCPS that will print only the even or only the odd 2 pages.  I used to use them to do manual duplexing.  2 Let me know if you want them and I'll e-mail them.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:34:58 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller0 Message-ID: <00A18A11.F62DD0C7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <v017lhjf4voca7@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: = >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message " >news:3DFFE6A0.A46FD4FE@fsi.net... >> Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote: >> >6 >> > Doesn't solve your problem with Destiller, but... >> >= >> > I tried for a while to "destill" output from DECdocument ; >> > with Destiller but always got a number of font-errors. > >> > Swapped to Ghostscript with the PDF-driver instead. Works= >> > just fine. But, as said, this is output from DECdoc, not D >> > from Bookreader. If you don't want to setup Ghostscript just toH >> > test, you could send me one of your PS files (ZIPed and "attached")? >> > to jan-erik.soderholm-at-pac-dot-ericsson-dot-com and I'll # >> > try it right away in my setup.  >>F >> As it turns out, yes, the .PS output from BookReader is essentiallyH >> trash for my purpose. I spoke to a nice person at CSC who provided meI >> .PS for the print-quality doc.'s, and that distilled just fine. Now, I 1 >> just need to find a printer with a duplexer...  >> > L >I have setup modules for DCPS that will print only the even or only the odd3 >pages.  I used to use them to do manual duplexing.  > 3 >Let me know if you want them and I'll e-mail them.  >  >   H I just discovered that CSWB/Mozilla print feature does not provide a wayH to print odd/even pages like Netscape V3.03.  Can you forward your setupH modules to me as well.  I'm sure I could easily whip 'em up myself but I0 figure why waste the time to reinvent the wheel.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:06:09 -0800  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 2 Message-ID: <USWL9.2594$kq6.52256@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> wrote in message 9 news:rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... E > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run F > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point.  . The 11 hours above is a little bit surprising:  D I'm running what's called 1900+ Athlon (that's 1.6GHz clock I think) (W2K for the OS as well)  B If I run SETI with nothing else running except internet connection= and reading (or posting :) a newsgroup now and then, it takes 7 under 5 hours to complete. Closer to 4.5 hours in fact. < Did you follow all the usual recommendations on cutting down> the SETI client overhead? And what else may be running on your system too?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:24:17 -0800  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 2 Message-ID: <T7XL9.2622$kq6.52629@news.xtra.co.nz>  / "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> wrote in message * news:atnghl$88t$1@newsreader1.netway.at... > B > Inspired by this thread i decided to download an run SETI @ home > for VMS today.  . Finally, some good came out of this thread :))   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:40:34 +0100 $ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <atnghl$88t$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  & "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote+ > Of course, all the top of the line Alphas H > are likely in production environments, so we probably won't get to see? > that. Unless of course someone has one, and can post numbers?  >  > Shane @ Inspired by this thread i decided to download an run SETI @ home for VMS today.5 I have it running on 3 different Systems @ the moment E ( not top of the line but two of them are EV 6, releas 2.3 @ 500Mhz )  I'll post the results tomorrow,    Peter    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 16:48:14 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> Y Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph AlphA / Message-ID: <uvulaaaqtiuk96@corp.supernews.com>    Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:   & > In article , "Mark E. Levy"  writes: > F > >Here's what $show cpu/full has to say about the chips in my system: > > / > >ALPHA, a DIGITAL Ultimate Workstation 533au2 H > >Multiprocessing is ENABLED. Streamlined synchronization image loaded. >  > I > Thanks to all who have followed up - indeed, CLUE CONFIG seems to have   > no clue. :-)    @ I'm not in a position to test this right now, but you might try:  
 $ anal/system 
 SDA> clue fru   C which will generate a file (it'll tell you what it's called), which E you then pass through DIAG, and you should see a lot more information @ than you'll get with "clue config".  As far as I remember, cache' information is included in this output.   	 Roy Omond B Blue Bubble Ltd. (Seti position 19,644 with 5,310 work units done)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:03:26 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG( Subject: CSWB (mozilla for VMS) problem.0 Message-ID: <00A18A05.2D0B0A73@SendSpamHere.ORG>  & I'm trying to get registered for DPSS.  K I am at the last step, approving the contract.  There are problems with the L web site that CSWB cannot handle.  You'd think that Compaq/HP would test the( web sites with the browser they support.   Anyhow, two issues:   K First, either there are no contract detail (I get a blank PDF displayed) or  there is a problem.   K Second, I can't approve the contract because CSWB seems to "hang" with this  code:   k <form name="submitForm" method="post" action='/dspp/prot/reg/reg_RenewalContractSignUp/1,2854,58,00.html '> 7 	<input type="hidden" name="chkContractList" value="8">  	<script language="javascript">  	document.submitForm.submit();
 	</script>  K I suppose the problem might be that document.submitForm.submit(); isn't de-  fined on that page but...   K Anyhow, I know the folks that were working on this "product" lurk here so I   would hope they can answer this.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:51:31 +0000 9 From: "Patrick Caulfield" <patrick@NOSPAMtykepenguin.com> & Subject: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership. Message-ID: <7jZL9.643$N61.84778@newsfep2-gui>  F Just got my renewal for this year and it's more than doubled in price! from 25ukp to 55.   2 Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.   Patrick    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:56:42 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership) Message-ID: <3E00627A.51939186@127.0.0.1>    Patrick Caulfield wrote: > H > Just got my renewal for this year and it's more than doubled in price! > from 25ukp to 55.  > . > !!! I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.  F Put this into context, a legit paid up licence for the o/s alone would cost a tad more than 55.  F However, I must agree I'm surprised in the hike in the membership fee, anyone care to comment why?    --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:42:33 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> * Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership8 Message-ID: <2lu00vksrs0qk44ve7o7orhgma1rq73eov@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:56:42 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Patrick Caulfield wrote:  >>  I >> Just got my renewal for this year and it's more than doubled in price!  >> from 25ukp to 55. >>  / >> !!! I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.  > G >Put this into context, a legit paid up licence for the o/s alone would  >cost a tad more than 55.   C Put into another context, in other countries membership is free :-(   G >However, I must agree I'm surprised in the hike in the membership fee,  >anyone care to comment why?   Declining membership ?     	John    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:48:24 GMT 9 From: Alan Adams <alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> * Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership? Message-ID: <ad96daa64b.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk>   7 In message <2lu00vksrs0qk44ve7o7orhgma1rq73eov@4ax.com> 6           John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> wrote:  H > On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:56:42 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >  > >Patrick Caulfield wrote:  > >>  K > >> Just got my renewal for this year and it's more than doubled in price!  > >> from 25ukp to 55. > >>  1 > >> !!! I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.  > > I > >Put this into context, a legit paid up licence for the o/s alone would  > >cost a tad more than 55.  > E > Put into another context, in other countries membership is free :-(  > I > >However, I must agree I'm surprised in the hike in the membership fee,  > >anyone care to comment why? >  > Declining membership ? >  >  > 	John   D And I did take out event membership - if I went to two events it was3 cheaper. As it turned out I only went to one event.   F I am pretty certain I joined in May, so a renewal in January came as aD surprise - I am CERTAIN that I wasnt informed that membership wasn't rolling, but Jan to Dec.  L Anyway, I think my renewal will be the 55ukp one this time. 190 is too much.   --  
 Alan Adams& alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 05:22:27 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>$ Subject: DECwindows vs TCPIP startup/ Message-ID: <3E003E52.7E4E0441@vl.videotron.ca>   L Currently, in my startup procedure, I submit a job to start TCPIP stuff, and5 at the end of the STARTUP.COM, VMS starts decwindows.   H If i define DEC$_INSTALL_TCPIP, but the time Decwindows start, the TCPIPM software has not been started yet, so it is incapable of binding to port 6000  to listen for inbound requests.   J The obvious solution would be to run TCPIP$STARTUP interactively. However, this can be time consuming.   L What sort of strategies exist ? Do most start TCPIP in the SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM: to make sure it is filly up before decwindows gets going ?  M Ideally, tere would be 2 TCPIP$STARTUP: one for the core, and then a separate D one for all the servers. This way, the core could be quickly startedE interactively, and the servers then started in bacth or other method.   
 Comments ?   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Dec 2002 17:16:43 GMT% From: Mark Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) < Message-ID: <Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90>   >> A further problem for VMS  G >> is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers who are A >> having to move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the current  >> downturn.  >     	We're already seeing this. All the new employee's we hire> have zero VMS experience. And this does make a HUGE difference% on what OS is selected for a project.     4 > mainly because linux and windoze are no where nearD > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...= > why would a company want to essentially start over with new > > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms= > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? B > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little= > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features < > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now5 > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!      9     	This scenario has been played out. So what if VMS is < "better" (which I agree with). There is no VMS talent, Alpha= HW is too expensive, VMS OS license price makes people faint, = and nobody cares about security, reliability or availability. < The expectations have been dramatically lowered in the past 9 5-8 years. IT projects are willing to sacrifice all these < wonderfull idea's for cheap, cheap, cheap solutions. Get the= project on-line and let the poor support slobes deal with the 	 problems.   *     	It's a sad but true fact of life now.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:18:21 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) I Message-ID: <1hOL9.151915$Q71.80327@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   1 "Shane Smith" <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message * news:01C2A5C2.FFB42630@sulfer.icius.com...G > The hardest thing is knocking the Unix out of them. I once had a Unix E > guy who though the right solution to something was to /replace/ the I > print command. "All we've got to do is write a new PRINT.EXE and put it 2 > in the right directory, isn't it?". >>>Smack<<<.    ' Somebody ought to write a book entitled  "VMS isn't Unix - Thank God"# and toss a copy to each VMS newbie.   ; In fact, it ought to be written and distributed free by HP.    Or perhaps another title,  "Unix is for Dummies",. in an nice yellow and black paperback edition.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:00:20 +0100 $ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 1 Message-ID: <nk_L9.7292$vR6.2010@news.get2net.dk>    Dan O'Reilly wrote: , > At 11:42 AM 12/17/2002, Bob Koehler wrote:D >> In article <Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90>, Mark% >> Fisher <riplips@yahoo.com> writes:  >>>>> A further problem for VMS F >>>>> is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers whoH >>>>> are having to move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the current >>>>> downturn.  >>> C >>>       We're already seeing this. All the new employee's we hire B >>> have zero VMS experience. And this does make a HUGE difference) >>> on what OS is selected for a project.  >>D >>    Never been a problem here.  We use VMS because it's so easy to@ >>    learn. Haven't hired someone with VMS experience in years. > B > I agree.  For 90% of all VMS programming, I can teach any decentA > programmer what they need to know to live and thrive in the VMS C > environment in a week (and in fact, I've done so on more than one < > large-scale, high-visibility project at previous places ofG > employment).  I think that whole concept of "hiring a VMS programmer" 1 > is really pretty bogus and is highly overrated.   L .. until you see what some C programmer with zero VMS knowledge can actuallyF accomplish on VMS.  List everything that can be done wrong, implement, repeat.   J It is OK being ignorant, but my experience is that the non-VMS programmersK arrive in the VMS world and think they know everything and manage to f***up F bigtime.  Interest in learning is low, because "that's how I did it on# Linux/windoze" (fill in the blank).   " Serious guidance is always needed.   Dweeb.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 08:52:16 -0600. From: frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large)= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 3 Message-ID: <g32XCQdJg7Ox@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <d7791aa1.0212170808.596aa720@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:A > you better tell the vms group to stop the itanium port then ... = > actually I am hearing otherwise, that vms system sales have A > held steady, mainly because linux and windoze are no where near D > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...= > why would a company want to essentially start over with new > > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms= > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? B > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little= > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features < > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now5 > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!   I 	Here's one VMS customer perspective, and I warn you it's depressing.  I oM work for a software vendor that has a computer-aided dispatch application as eH our primary product.  Our clients are 911 dispatch agencies.  Security, O clustering, uptime, and excellent response are all critical to this business.  eO Our "Legacy" product has been running on VMS since PDP days, and we still port  P it to Alphas when clients ask us to.  We have a dedicated, but shrinking, group B of people working on enhancements and maintenance of this product.I 	A few years ago we bowed down to the pointy-clicky demand and developed sM a Windows/unix version of our product.  Even these critical agencies are run  F by PHB's who read about how slick Windows or linux is in the business K magazines.  So our customers are gradually, one by one, "upgrading" to the  N newer product.  All of our competitors in this market are also either windows  or unix/linux platforms.H 	People are now placing priority on the ability to drag and drop police M car icons onto burglary incident icons, for example, rather than maintaining m% uptime, data integrity, and security.s  H 	BTW, nobody's commented on the recent Microsoft tv ads with the motto: N "software for the agile business".  Don't these make you want to vomit?  This K is the kind of thing, combined with no marketing of VMS that is causing an  < (IMO) irrational migration of critical systems to Microsoft.   --      - Sharon, lurker at Large% http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jcwomanm   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 09:15:22 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)o3 Message-ID: <jEYWgDjgFPYi@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  X In article <nk_L9.7292$vR6.2010@news.get2net.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com> writes: > L > It is OK being ignorant, but my experience is that the non-VMS programmersM > arrive in the VMS world and think they know everything and manage to f***up H > bigtime.  Interest in learning is low, because "that's how I did it on% > Linux/windoze" (fill in the blank).s > $ > Serious guidance is always needed. >   A 	Attitude and NIH syndrome are at fault.  How do you change that? A 	A few successes and hand-holding.  Highlight the strengths, etc.    				Robg  L "UNIX is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are inG UNIX, then they must be bad.  Sorry, I don't believe in this religion."e  O                                               -- Dave Cutler, NT lead ArchitectjJ                                                  UNIXWorld - February 1992   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:02:10 GMTt( From: "konabear" <maurert@ameritech.net>= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)m? Message-ID: <CK2M9.8925$4j5.4831724@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>s  2 "Mark Fisher" <riplips@yahoo.com> wrote in message6 news:Xns92E7688FB4752riplipsyahoocom@129.250.170.90... <snip>6 > > mainly because linux and windoze are no where nearF > > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ... <snip>? > and nobody cares about security, reliability or availability.-  L Some people are concerned about security, but I've found most people take it3 seriously, only to the point there's little pain...    Consider...0  D A site where security insisted that a dial-in line for remote systemE diagnosistic had to be physically removed because of a company ban onaH dial-in modems.  Yet the same company uses wireless networking where theL company name is the network password.  Anyone sitting in the parking lot can hack the network.L  I A site where dial-in modems were common so people can work from home, but G encripting Ethernet transcievers for an in facility network was seen asgI vital. (After all, tapping telephone lines is illegal but not an employeet sniffing a network.)  L A site responsible for patient's medical records that had it's modem set NOTG to hang up on disconnect.  Every Sunday night the SYS MGR would dial-iniI (long distance) to his priv'd account, start the backups (interactively), F hang-up, and dial back later to use control-T to see the status of theH backups.  Same facility had card key access on most doors.  That someoneK might find the modem's number, and attach to the logged in session was seenu as "not very likely"  J A region wide network of database and systems where default network accessA allows remote connection to the databases and write access to the.J application directories.  After all, local system accounts were controlledF by the local offices for security reasons, but centralized applicationI support needed to be able to access the database for analysis and "fixes"iI and also be be able to push "fixed" code to the sites.  That anyone could-H drop a bogus node on the network anywhere in the region and thereby gain access to all systems...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:04:53 -05005& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 2 Message-ID: <XW1M9.44$m74.919595@news.cpqcorp.net>   Mark Fisher wrote: >>>A further problem for VMS tG >>>is the number of current VMS programmers and system managers who aresA >>>having to move to other systems (mainly NT) due to the currentt >>>downturn. >> > @ >     	We're already seeing this. All the new employee's we hire@ > have zero VMS experience. And this does make a HUGE difference' > on what OS is selected for a project.  >   F There was a time when new hires from college, etc. HAD VMS experience?  F When I graduated from Purdue, I had never heard of RSX, TOPS-10, VMS, H BLISS, etc.  Guess what, I learned them.  If you are hiring people that = cannot learn things, you're in bigger trouble than you think.      -- . John Reagans' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderd Hewlett-Packard CompanyI   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Dec 2002 17:15:44 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)o5 Message-ID: <atqafv$1kkee$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>l  3 In article <jEYWgDjgFPYi@eisner.encompasserve.org>,a. 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > N > "UNIX is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are inI > UNIX, then they must be bad.  Sorry, I don't believe in this religion."  > Q >                                               -- Dave Cutler, NT lead Architect L >                                                  UNIXWorld - February 1992   Hmmmmm.....R  H "VMS is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are   in VMS, then they must be bad."   Works just as well.h   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:25:35 -0500t From: "ICUSC" <sales@hpaq.net>3 Subject: Re: DS10 - problem using widescreen or ???d/ Message-ID: <uvvcef3uuc35a2@news.supernews.com>-  % Is everything OK with the DS10 Bart ?,   Hope so and merry xmas     DT  . <nickerson@mirage.boeing.com> wrote in message" news:H74uno.GBL@news.boeing.com... >  > hi,- > H > I have a DS10 6/600 with VX1 card running 7.3-1 with no patches; I getE > the DECwindows prompt screen but can not login; behavior is that is D > takes the username and then the Xserver restarts & you never see aJ > password prompt; this is a "new" machine and has never been successfullyI > used with any display much less a widescreen; the monitor I'm trying toAI > use is a wide Samsung 15" LCD; I have booted up with the cdrom and done G > a bit of system setup - set system password, defined additional user,h@ > defined licenses; I have attempted a conversational to set the7 > WINDOW_SYSTEM to 0; I have yet to try a minimal boot;s > 7 > any suggestions or known problems with this approach;a >hG > I will be trying it with a standard monitor tonight and will know howd- > that goes by the next time I access usenet;  >J > thanks for any ideas;- > --bn (Bart Nickerson),  > nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com > (206) 662-0183   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:43:55 -0500r# From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com>s- Subject: Enabling Adaptec on DS20 (not DS20e) / Message-ID: <v01cvak51ihr8d@news.supernews.com>g  @ Having looked at the MLB's on both the DS20 and DS20e, we figureJ there MUST be a way ro enable the on-board Adaptec 7895 controllers on the( DS20 to make the board operate asa DS20e  < If anyone can enlighten me .... I would really appreciate it   Thanks       -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationt 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180y Savannah GA 31404v Tel: 912 447 6622. Fax: 912 201 0402- Email: dbturner@hpaq.net www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 05:56:41 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>: Subject: Re: History,design and implementation of VMS info- Message-ID: <874r9cia1y.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:a   > >What is UNIX ???S? > >Do you have any pointers where I could learn more about it ?t  m8 > I believe it's some add on service you can get for NT.  aG > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/sfu/productinfo/overview/default.asp   ,F > "The Interix technology provides a UNIX environment that runs on topB > the Windows kernel, enabling UNIX application and scripts to run4 > natively on the Windows platform alongside WindowsC > applications. With this capability, you can continue to get valueh@ > out of your UNIX scripts and applicationssimply reuse them on
 > Windows.  0 But does it come in any colour other than BLUE?    :)   -- m< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.p@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 04:00:56 -0800' From: timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) = Subject: Re: hobbyist first steps (was Re: OpenVMS software?)h= Message-ID: <a7234bb1.0212180400.55cfe8a3@posting.google.com>   B Thank you this is perfect!  I can't wait to tinker.  Yes I was notE sure that the website was the real deal.  With so many old VMS systemtE managers out there I'm surprised it has not been updated.  EspeciallyeE as the O/S is perfect for comp sci students learning operating system = concepts as it provides a real alternative to UNIX and NT.  I C purchased an Alpha 3000 for $200 (as long as ebay comes through) socE here is hoping I will be able to set up this server in my basement...    Tim    craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) wrote in message news:<7f15589f.0212171941.19a6d57b@posting.google.com>...C? > In article <a7234bb1.0212170912.600c9f50@posting.google.com>,e+ >  timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) wrote:t > J > >    I have been there before but I am getting lost in following links. * > > Can you provide a more direct link for > > a) Ordering Vms 7.x CDsv > / > <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html>M > % > > b) Ordering the hobbyist license.  > G > First get a free associate membership from the society formerly known- > as DECUS:- > = > <https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm>o > , > (or local DECUS branch if not in the U.S.) > E > Then go back to Montagar and get licenses for the OS and also (in ae& > separate step) for layered products: > : > <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html> > G > While you are waiting for things (membership, licenses, media, etc.),d' > do read carefully the OpenVMS FAQ at:t > : >  <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html> >  >  > > thanks for being patient.H > @ > Thank *you* for being patient.  OpenVMS itself will repay yourF > persistence, but it is harder than it should be to get started.  TheC > Montagar hobbyist pages are an embarrassing hodge-podge of inside2G > jokes.  For example, lurking under "MOUNT/MEDIA=CDROM" on the left of E > the screen is a link to the page where you can order hobbyist media6: > kits, which happen to come on CD-ROM, though the commandF > "MOUNT/MEDIA=CDROM" would be the wrong way to mount one of these CDsE > since they are in a native VMS format and not in ISO 9660, which isA= > what that command implies.   That's just one example of theaG > newbie-unfriendly nature of the site.  I don't think the well-meaning>H > Montagar folks who volunteer their time intended to be inscrutable; itH > just never occurred to them that someone who wasn't already an OpenVMSG > guru might be interested (or they just have a really bad sense of webeH > design).  They have also not updated the kits in three years (and haveE > sold out of VAX kits), and whenever this comes up claim to have newAG > kits in the works real soon now.  One wishes they would either get it- > done or ask for help.1   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 05:43:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: MAXJOBS definition Was: Login lexical?E- Message-ID: <878yyoian5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  & Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes:  I > Why not just set their UAF to do this? I believe MAXJOBS should do whatu > you want:   A >         /MAXJOBS=value  iE >      Specifies the maximum number of processes (interactive, batch, 0                                        ^^^^^^^^^B >      detached, and network) with the cited user name that can beA >      active simultaneously. The first four network jobs are notrB >      counted. By default, a user has a maximum value of 0, which& >      represents an unlimited number.  D This has to be either wrong, or misleading. A job can have more thanD one process, so it should be `jobs', `top level processes' or MAXJOB4 should be MAXPRC or something... Likewise MAXACTJOB.   -- 8< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.9@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:37:33 GMTmL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")5 Subject: MX 4.2 on VMS 7.7-2 w/ TCP/IP Services ECO 3o6 Message-ID: <00A189CF.43A9C48B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  	 VMSers --t  J I want to run Listserv Lite Free Edition on my home VMS box.  It downloadsF and installs fine, but apparently requires either MX, PMDF, or LSoft'sI LSMTP if you want to  actually do anything with it.  (I found this in the F Listserv Classic documentation; the Free Edition stuff doesn't seem toH _say_ you need it, but works the same way.)  There's no free or hobbyist PMDF.  b  ( I'm not prepared to spend money on this.  I MX 4.2 is the last freeware MX.  I downloaded it and tried to install it.s    K VMS 7.2-2, Alpha, TCP/IP Services 5.1 ECO 3.  No matter what options I pick > for installing it, as soon as it starts to link, it dies with:  6 %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set L ...@ %VMSINSTAL-I-SYSDIR, This product creates system disk directory  SYS$SYSDEVICE:[MX.LSV].h& %MX-I-LINKING, Linking image MX_LSV..., %LINK-W-MULCLUOPT, cluster  multiply definedK         in options file HUDSON$DKB100:[SYS0.SYSUPD.MX042]MX_LSV.ALPHA_OPT;3 = %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of MX V4.2 has failed.c  G (when I had it installing the SMTP option, it died with the same error  
 for MX_SMTP).a  @ What can I do to get MX 4.2 installed and running on my machine?6 Am I doomed to use the VMS port of (blech) Majordomo?    Thanks,e   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056lM  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025fO ===============================================================================e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:01:57 -0000R2 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: MX linelength patch3 Message-ID: <atpv4n$na$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>.  L Since installing the recent MX linelength patch (thanks Matt), we've noticed% lines getting truncated at 255 again.D  L Is this intended, or is there a way to fix it (wrapping would be much nicer) ?y  @ I'm asking here because I've lost all the original references, &( www.madgoat.com seems to be unreachable.  % (mx 5.0, vms alpha 7.3, tcp/ip 5.1-3)f   Thanks,s Chris>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:19:12 -0700 . From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: MX linelength patchD Message-ID: <OF74C875F6.DE68AE1D-ON07256C93.004E9DAA@mck.us.ray.com>  , What linelenght patch?  Please tell me more.   dave.r  H ----- Forwarded by David D Miller/RWS/Raytheon/US on 12/18/2002 07:18 AM -----t    D Since installing the recent MX linelength patch (thanks Matt), we've noticed>% lines getting truncated at 255 again.e  E Is this intended, or is there a way to fix it (wrapping would be mucht nicer) ?e  @ I'm asking here because I've lost all the original references, &( www.madgoat.com seems to be unreachable.  % (mx 5.0, vms alpha 7.3, tcp/ip 5.1-3)t   Thanks,g Chrisu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:54:18 -0000 2 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>  Subject: Re: MX linelength patch4 Message-ID: <atq5nc$ajf$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>  9 "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in messagel> news:OF74C875F6.DE68AE1D-ON07256C93.004E9DAA@mck.us.ray.com... >s >t >t > . > What linelenght patch?  Please tell me more.  L http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=00A17D6FL .0DB4A63F.5%40MadGoat.Com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fsafe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%2L 6oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3Dcomp.os.vms%252C%2520*mx*%26as_usubject%3Dmx%26lr%L 3D%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D11%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D, 18%26as_maxm%3D12%26as_maxy%3D2002%26hl%3Den  I (if that's unreadable google search group vmsnet.mail.mx subject mx, last2 month)   Chrisa   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:13:22 -0700l. From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com>  Subject: Re: MX linelength patchD Message-ID: <OF7EE36E60.8829AFC3-ON07256C93.005E7456@mck.us.ray.com>   Chris   E That would be the reference buried in the "Important Security Notice"f thread I presume.  Thanks.   dave.   H ----- Forwarded by David D Miller/RWS/Raytheon/US on 12/18/2002 10:11 AM -----   9 "David D Miller" <ddmiller@raytheon.com> wrote in messaget> news:OF74C875F6.DE68AE1D-ON07256C93.004E9DAA@mck.us.ray.com... >h >E >c >n. > What linelenght patch?  Please tell me more.  ( http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr$ =&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=00A17D6FK 0DB4A63F.5%40MadGoat.Com&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fsafe%3Dimages%26ie%3DUTF-8%2i  L 6oe%3DUTF-8%26as_ugroup%3Dcomp.os.vms%252C%2520*mx*%26as_usubject%3Dmx%26lr%  L 3D%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D12%26as_minm%3D11%26as_miny%3D2002%26as_maxd%3D  , 18%26as_maxm%3D12%26as_maxy%3D2002%26hl%3Den  I (if that's unreadable google search group vmsnet.mail.mx subject mx, lastm month)   Chrise   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:13:45 +0100 + From: Arne Bergseth <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com> * Subject: New home for DEC 3000 model 300LX1 Message-ID: <ZzLL9.2032$Rc7.52228@news2.e.nsc.no>d  / DEC 3000 model 300  available for VMS hobbyist.wH Workstation with Alpha 21064 processor, 64 MB memory and 1.05 GB disk,  . has been taken out of use and need a new home.* I already have more than I can accomodate.I The machine is located in Norway, the system box can possibly be shipped o0 by mail if you are willing to cover the postage.G If  you also want the VRC21-HA monitor you will have to come get it in   Sandvika in Norway.V   Regards,           Arne Bergseth    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:58:23 -0500 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>B4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker$ Message-ID: <3e00a91b$1@news.si.com>  G >From what I've gathered by experimenting and reading the documentationdE >(in the .doc directory of the source tree), if you used "incremental  >mode" E.g.t >h >john -i:vms sysuaf.john >t> >it will perform a brute force attack after it's finished withH >intelligent guessing (using combinations in password.lst I suspect) and >won't likely terminate.  G But I didn't use the -i option.  I submitted a batch job that contains:   & $ set def [.ripper.john-1_6_32vms.run] $ john == "$sys$disk:[]john" $ john sysuaf.john $ exit  C So far, it's used "4 23:06:00.12" of CPU time and has processed sixs% usernames.  Doesn't seem right to me.  --  I Brian Tillman         Internet: Brian.Tillman at smiths-aerospace dot comi5 Smiths Aerospace  Addresses modified to prevent SPAM.e@ 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS Replace "at" with "@", "dot" with "." Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991d8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:29:00 GMTm% From: Milton <mbhewitt@optonline.net>0 Subject: Re: OpenVMS software?8 Message-ID: <mqe10vkkjqv1f5jsc0qtg970k817umb6vt@4ax.com>  @ On 17 Dec 2002 09:12:00 -0800, timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) wrote:  	 >Thanks, nG >   I have been there before but I am getting lost in following links. e' >Can you provide a more direct link foru >a) Ordering Vms 7.x CDs" >b) Ordering the hobbyist license.  7 First, sign up for an associate membership at Encompassa9 https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfmt  @ "You must be a member of a participating DECUS/Encompass Chapter- before you can order an OpenVMS Hobbyist Kit".  & You can Order On-line via Credit Card,3 Order by Check/MoneyOrder/CreditCard via Mail, or  p  Order using PayPal at this site:+ http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html   8 Be aware that, OpenVMS V7.3-1 is currently scheduled for& First-Customer-Ship around August 21st  = Upon receipt of your install media, register your license at:o6 http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html  ! Installation instructions are at:(- http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/install.htmln  - A shed-load of freeware can be obtained from:-- http://vms.process.com/fileserv-software.html0   Hope this helps, Milton   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:04:24 +0100H4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>@ Subject: Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD& Message-ID: <3DFF9158.8000807@Free.fr>   Michael Unger a crit: ../.F > After filling in the required data and sending it ("submit") I got aH > "VB scripting error" (don't remember the exact phrasing); trying again > later I got a message saying:U > ! > "The following errors occurred:3? > We recognize the fact that you have already responded to thise; > questionnaire. Unfortunately, you may only respond once."r > ; > So there is no chance to get a copy of this CD obviously.M   Did you delete the cookie?   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:24:26 +0100e$ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>@ Subject: Re: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions CD* Message-ID: <00A18A4B.28FB3E15.7@decus.de>  = =22Didier Morandi=22 <Didier.Morandi.nospam=40Free.fr> wrote:-   > Michael Unger a =E9crit: > ../.L > > After filling in the required data and sending it (=22submit=22) I got aL > > =22VB scripting error=22 (don't remember the exact phrasing); trying ag= aino! > > later I got a message saying:+ > > % > > =22The following errors occurred:tA > > We recognize the fact that you have already responded to thist? > > questionnaire. Unfortunately, you may only respond once.=225 > >>= > > So there is no chance to get a copy of this CD obviously.t >  > Did you delete the cookie?   Which cookie ???J (Cookies -- permanent and temporary ones -- are disabled of course ... :-)   Michaels   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:03:51 +0000e' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3E004807.7040102@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:r > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF8A5AD.8090002@nospamn.sun.com>...o >  >>Bob Ceculski wrote:  >> >>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3DF7472F.9060103@nospamn.sun.com>... >>>: >>>0 >>>>David J. Dachtera wrote: >>>> >>>>- >>>>>Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  >>>>>J >>>>>  >>>>>w >>>>>>[snip]= >>>>>>Scalability or rather you were right not to mention it.. >>>>>  >>>>>! >>>>>Excuse me?s >>>>> 7 >>>>>How many nodes are supported in a Solaris cluster?i >>>>>u >>>>6 >>>>If you use SunFire Link then its currently 8 nodes >>>>with a switch. >>>>2 >>>>If you use F15K's then you could have 98 CPU's' >>>>per node with 2 SunFire Link cards.s >>>> >>>>Regardsh >>>>Andrew Harrison  >>>n >>>e@ >>>and if you use VMS you can use 96 nodes w/multiple cpu's at aB >>>distance of 500 miles ... and VMS clustering actually works ...9 >>>after 25 years it still kicks @$? over anyone else ... > >>>so why waste your money on cheap imitations folks, get real >>>clustering with OpenVMS!I >>3 >>You could but very very few people do, one of theb6 >>cluster surveys 4-5 years ago found that the average6 >>number of nodes in an OpenVMS/VMS cluster was 6 with >>few in double figures. >>6 >>If you couple this with the fact that the throughput5 >>of each OpenVMS node has always been 1/4 of that of0; >>the largest Sun and you end up with a rather unimpressive: >>story. >>	 >>Regardst >>Andrew Harrison0 >  > C > only true if you are using scsi 1 or 2 bus as an interconnect ...m= > try using memory channel or fibre channel, and combine withOB > the new EV7 to provide the highest bandwidth in the industry ... > 7 > http://www.c3.lanl.gov/par_arch/pubs/LAUR-02-4850.pdfr  4 We wait in anticipation for the Marvel systems to be5 released, lets hope they arn't stillborn like the GS.w  = And Why use something as slow and primitive as memory channel - or fibre channel as a cluster interconnect ??s  = Why not try something quicker like Sun Fire Link for example.      Regardse Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:41:20 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy.6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?, Message-ID: <3E0050D0.40008@nospamn.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>r; > wrote in message news:3DFF5F87.5040809@nospamn.sun.com...V >  > ...t >  > = >>Can you provide a reasoned argument that explains why doingmA >>TPC-C for the F15K would be usefull for people trying to assessr4 >>the relative performance of Sun vs other servers ? >  > M > Of course:  because it would provide a reasonably apples-to-apples point of N > comparison with all the *non*-clustered results from similar large platformsG > (32-processor POWER4, Itanic2, P4/Xeon, and Alpha boxes, 64-processorr > PA-RISC boxes, etc.).y >   9 Hardly, TPC-C has no reporting load, is based on 5 simplew> to moderate complexity transaction types which you can shedule? as you wish. It is also a terrible predictor of the performance,> of real OLTP applications most of which have many more queries: and which also generally have some sort of reporting load.  8 It is for example no use as a predictor of SAP or Oracle4 applications performance each of which has their own3 benchmark, both OLTP neither predictable from TPC-C  results.  > Because of its simplicity it is open to optimisations that may have no use outside TPC-C.  > This has been recognised for a long time, there was a proposalC ironically crafted by IBM to create a new high end TPC complex OLTP 8 benchmark rectified the issues associated with TPC-C, it: failed to get the necessary majority of TPC members votes, though no one voted against it.    > ...  >  > < >>Interesting, Gartner and Meta are the first people to tell7 >>you that scaling out, shared nothing clusters are not * >>suitable platforms to host large DBMS's. >>9 >>Ironic, the reason why Sun has dropped TPC-C is because-? >>the shared nothing approach and the cluster in a box approach @ >>pioneered by Compaq has distorted the TPC-C results to a point$ >>where the results have no meaning. >  > M > Ridiculous.  The *clustered* results have little or no meaning, but they'reiN > easily separable from the non-clustered results - which are still subject to; > configuration black art but have at least *some* meaning.  >   = No they arn't most people don't read the full disclosures ands> many for example have no idea that Sequent and Compaq with the; NUMA-Q and the GS320 respectively had to use a cluster in a' box to get decent performance.  : To compound this while the GS and NUMA-Q results are quite8 clearly based on clustering they are listed as being nonB clustered results by TPC and also by all the people who re-package# the results like Ideas and Gartner.a   Regardso Andrew Harrisonb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:17:55 +0000:( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?) Message-ID: <3E005963.514AB09C@127.0.0.1>R  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  ...t? > And Why use something as slow and primitive as memory channel8/ > or fibre channel as a cluster interconnect ??F > ? > Why not try something quicker like Sun Fire Link for example.   @ A comment which highlights a severe lack of understanding of VMS clustering.   A Sorry Andrew, I don't mean to be personal, please point me in the F direction of technical documentation of "Sun Fire Link". I had a quickD look at the Sun website, but there seems to be a lack of performanceA figures, technical overview and limited to certain servers only.    F More questions for you, what other cluster interconnects exist for SunH servers, can they be used concurrently for resilience? This is more thanE a PCI card, it's a whole lump of additional hardware, right? What are  the requirements/restrictions?  C I'm not trolling you, I'm genuinely interested, and I may have more  questions after answers.   -- g? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 05:16:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?- Message-ID: <87isxsibwb.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   7 "John Wallace" <johnwallace4@yahoo.dotco.dotuk> writes:e  @ > Iirc, this basic inability for modern fast PC support chips toC > interoperate reliably led AMD to sign up for a licence to use theiC > EV6 chip bus, and in theory Samsung (and others?) could have madeiF > pin-compatible motherboards which in hardware terms could have taken@ > either EV6 or AMD chips. Or something like that. As far as I'mD > aware, no-one actually did make dual-purpose motherboards. If I've< > got my history right, this bus spec became Hypertransport.  ; Samsung did one model (1500??) that took Alpha or AMD cpus.09 It would have been interesting to see how a Athlon ran inC, a DS20 or ES40 backplane vs a `standard' PC.   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:32:48 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyt6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3E008710.9060803@nospamn.sun.com>   Nic Clews wrote:* > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > ...o > ? >>And Why use something as slow and primitive as memory channeln/ >>or fibre channel as a cluster interconnect ??f >>? >>Why not try something quicker like Sun Fire Link for example.  >  > B > A comment which highlights a severe lack of understanding of VMS
 > clustering.n > C > Sorry Andrew, I don't mean to be personal, please point me in thepH > direction of technical documentation of "Sun Fire Link". I had a quickF > look at the Sun website, but there seems to be a lack of performanceC > figures, technical overview and limited to certain servers only. . >   A SunFire Link is currently available for the F6800 and the F15000.d  H The SunFire Link card replaces an I/O boat on either system. It connectsE directly into the Sun Fire backplane, it isn't a PCI based system fors example.  B Because of the direct connection and because of the performance of> the interconnect one card will give you up to 2.8 GB/s, with 2E links, 2 cards which is the normal config in a cluster for resiliance 0 with link level striping will give you 4.8 GB/s.  @ It supports direct node to node connections for up to 3 nodes or/ via a switch which currently gives you 8 nodes.s  = MPI ping pong latency is in the order of 3.7 microseconds andtD the interconnect supports Remote Shared Memory which is used by Sun  Cluster, RAC etc.   9 In comparison Memory Channel 2 I think supports 16 nodes,t9 with each link running at 100 MB/s full Duplex and an MPIs= ping-pong latency of ~17 microseconds (could be wrong on this/@ since the only numbers I have seen are single way 8.5 microsecs)  < Since the Sun nodes are much bigger than the current GS320's, and the Interconnect is much much faster its  H > More questions for you, what other cluster interconnects exist for SunJ > servers, can they be used concurrently for resilience? This is more thanG > a PCI card, it's a whole lump of additional hardware, right? What aree  > the requirements/restrictions? >   E Sun Fire Link is a hot-plugged redundant interconnect if a link failsfD with link level striping then the blocks will be re-transmitted down the available links.  F It is more than a PCI card, it replaces a PCI boat though the Sun FireD Link card appart from the interconnect itself also has 2 cPCI or PCI5 adaptor slots depending on if its a F6800 or F12/15K.e  A Other cluster interconnects include the normal, SCI, Gigabit etc.t   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 08:32:25 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?3 Message-ID: <ujLWpXLiz2Rj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3E0050D0.40008@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: >  >  > Bill Todd wrote:N >> "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>< >> wrote in message news:3DFF5F87.5040809@nospamn.sun.com... >> v >> ... >> i >> m> >>>Can you provide a reasoned argument that explains why doingB >>>TPC-C for the F15K would be usefull for people trying to assess5 >>>the relative performance of Sun vs other servers ?e >> f >> wN >> Of course:  because it would provide a reasonably apples-to-apples point ofO >> comparison with all the *non*-clustered results from similar large platformsuH >> (32-processor POWER4, Itanic2, P4/Xeon, and Alpha boxes, 64-processor >> PA-RISC boxes, etc.). >> r > ; > Hardly, TPC-C has no reporting load, is based on 5 simplem@ > to moderate complexity transaction types which you can sheduleA > as you wish. It is also a terrible predictor of the performances@ > of real OLTP applications most of which have many more queries< > and which also generally have some sort of reporting load. > : > It is for example no use as a predictor of SAP or Oracle6 > applications performance each of which has their own5 > benchmark, both OLTP neither predictable from TPC-Cl
 > results. > @ > Because of its simplicity it is open to optimisations that may > have no use outside TPC-C. > @ > This has been recognised for a long time, there was a proposalE > ironically crafted by IBM to create a new high end TPC complex OLTPc: > benchmark rectified the issues associated with TPC-C, it< > failed to get the necessary majority of TPC members votes,! > though no one voted against it.s >   < 	Andrew is right (as far as I can tell) now and historically? 	on many debates regarding tpmC/TPC-C and has shown us a number < 	of issues with TPC-C.  The only downside of Sun sitting out; 	tpmC is RFPs may require tpmC results as a baseline, neverr? 	mind it is a questionable benchmark.  I've come full circle onsB 	tpmC having trotted them out all too often.  There were/are signsC 	early on that tpmC is a stinker.  Greg Pfister basically rips into  	it in "In Search of Clusters."x  F 	Better server benchmarks these days are tpmH, SAPs, Oracles, etc. forD 	a starting place regarding RFPs.  Particularly, the larger databaseD 	sizes for tpmH for high-end.  I haven't kept up trying to sort out G 	various benchmarks but it appears SpecWeb99 at www.spec.org is a good n< 	one too and obviously a good fit if looking at Web servers.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:50:58 -0500>* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: Procedure question...5 Message-ID: <aeLL9.21196$H67.96028@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>e  ! $ HELP LEXICAL F$GETDVI Arguments>   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)z8 To reply to myself directly, remove zulu from my address  J "Shiva MahaDeva" <contracer11@uol.com.br> a crit dans le message de news:2 ddf392ea.0212171144.58ea8bfc@posting.google.com...K > I need create a procedure to show magtape operations counter in the VT400G > terminal. Like this: >  >y. >                 MagTape Operations:  8324562 >u > C > This informations it must stay freeze in the screen (only numberss increasing). >oA > If I issue a command (like sh dev d, for example), the "MagTape- Operations"  >D! > must stay freeze in the screen.5 >.! > How can I make this using DCL ?: >: > Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:43:09 +0100i1 From: "Rene Verhaeghe" <rene.verhaeghe@chello.be>e: Subject: Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-Library0 Message-ID: <TD1M9.977$Ih.103165@news.chello.be>  0 There is no specific licence nor product to use.  " The loader is seen as simple tape.I When you insert a new loader, the first tape must always be loaded in theD! tpe drive manually on the loader. H On VMS, you can the use a mount/dismount. When the dismount is done, the9 next tape will automatically be loaded un the tape drive.h7 "Waard, D.G.A. de" <deWaard@WT.TNO.NL> wrote in messagee= news:6B80E71673E6D611AC1D0008C7F37BC254B977@wt15.wt.tno.nl...  > Dear members of this list, > & > I have a little question to ask you; >eH > I want to use an 'old' TZ887 on our OVMS Alpha (7.2) system, but don't	 know if ItH > need special software/license to use it. Its a DLT tape drive with a 7 tapeI > magazine in it. I managed to get it work with only 1 tape. But not withl theaI > automatic tape loader. Is there a special setting to use this function?u@ > Can/will anyone explain/tell me which software/license I need?I > At the moment we use an dcl procedure to backup our system on an tlz06lm tapeA > unit with a 4 tape magazine, but is not working with the tz887.  >a > TIA, >/4 > Dannie de Waard                     TNO Automotive9 >                                     Crash-Safety Centrer4 > Phone: +31 (0)15 2696015            P.O. Box 6033,5 > Fax:   +31 (0)15 2572104            2600 JA,  DELFTs5 > E-Mail:DeWaard@wt.tno.nl            The Netherlandsd$ > URL: http://www.automotive.tno.nl/ > I > This e-mail and its contents are subject to a DISCLAIMER with importantuB > RESERVATIONS:  http://www.automotive.tno.nl/smartsite.dws?id=886 >r   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:41:39 -0700 (MST)a" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>: Subject: Re: question about Digital TZ887 DLT Mini-LibraryG Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0212181134590.21001-100000@athena.csdco.com>a  * On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Rene Verhaeghe wrote:  2 > There is no specific licence nor product to use. > $ > The loader is seen as simple tape.K > When you insert a new loader, the first tape must always be loaded in the-# > tpe drive manually on the loader.1J > On VMS, you can the use a mount/dismount. When the dismount is done, the; > next tape will automatically be loaded un the tape drive.p9 > "Waard, D.G.A. de" <deWaard@WT.TNO.NL> wrote in message ? > news:6B80E71673E6D611AC1D0008C7F37BC254B977@wt15.wt.tno.nl...A > > Dear members of this list, > >t( > > I have a little question to ask you; > > J > > I want to use an 'old' TZ887 on our OVMS Alpha (7.2) system, but don't > know if IsJ > > need special software/license to use it. Its a DLT tape drive with a 7 > tapeK > > magazine in it. I managed to get it work with only 1 tape. But not with  > the-K > > automatic tape loader. Is there a special setting to use this function?cB > > Can/will anyone explain/tell me which software/license I need?K > > At the moment we use an dcl procedure to backup our system on an tlz06lG > tapeC > > unit with a 4 tape magazine, but is not working with the tz887.y > >t > > TIA, > >l6 > > Dannie de Waard                     TNO Automotive; > >                                     Crash-Safety Centrem6 > > Phone: +31 (0)15 2696015            P.O. Box 6033,7 > > Fax:   +31 (0)15 2572104            2600 JA,  DELFTn7 > > E-Mail:DeWaard@wt.tno.nl            The Netherlands & > > URL: http://www.automotive.tno.nl/ > > K > > This e-mail and its contents are subject to a DISCLAIMER with importanttD > > RESERVATIONS:  http://www.automotive.tno.nl/smartsite.dws?id=886 > >e >  >  >   D In order to exercise the robotic functions, it is necessary to use aC program called Media Robot Utility (MRU) which ships with some tape 5 libraries. See http://www.support.compaq.com/sms/mru/     
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:53:58 -0500u% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>e? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...a/ Message-ID: <uvv3n7jv1i6u75@news.supernews.com>-  7 "Ken Randell" <ken.randell@fortel.com> wrote in messagea7 news:8debc3ff.0212170829.629f06ff@posting.google.com...sH > Somebody at HP-ETS made the same sort of claim.  I don't think this isE > correct, however.  My poor old memory may be off, but didn't one oftA > the genome research outfits (Celera?) recently (few months ago) E > announce they were moving from Tru64 on Alpha to a IBM Power setup?o >e > reference the following URL: >S8 > http://www.bio-itworld.com/news/111202_report1528.html > G > The way I read this is that this is one customer that BCS is going to ! > lose, if they have not already.e  < I think they are (were) counted as a HPTC customer, not BCS.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 06:19:07 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>? Subject: Re: Scott Stallard: BCS customers are happy with HP...c- Message-ID: <87znr4gug4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  , ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell) writes:  H > Somebody at HP-ETS made the same sort of claim.  I don't think this isE > correct, however.  My poor old memory may be off, but didn't one ofmA > the genome research outfits (Celera?) recently (few months ago) E > announce they were moving from Tru64 on Alpha to a IBM Power setup?a >  > reference the following URL: > 8 > http://www.bio-itworld.com/news/111202_report1528.html > G > The way I read this is that this is one customer that BCS is going toS! > lose, if they have not already.a  B And also the Sandia(?) Labs systems that was `descoped' as part of
 the pull out.   2 Oh, that is an ALPHA issue, not a hp one... pffft!   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 05:01:42 -0800f# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i Subject: smtp  problem?O9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEFFGEAA.tom@kednos.com>e  ; running tcpip5.1 under 7.3.  I access mail through pop from > a W2K bbox running Outlook.  I could send mail but not receive? it wasn't getting retrieved from [tom.mail] by Outlook.  In theV@ end I tried rebooting the W2K box and some messages came throughA but then it stopped again.  Finally rebooted VMS (after trying too? anal mail/repair, starting and stopping smtp) and then messgaesoA started to flow, but there still seems to be a lot of messages inoA my mail dir, and checking the dates some are a few days old.  HowmA do I clean this out?  Has anyone else experienced this?  Is there  a patch required?    ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:04:03 -0000-2 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: Re: smtp  problem?.4 Message-ID: <atpv8k$s4c$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  J There's some issues with the recent SYS05 patch causing problems with smtpI (and other products), but the details aren't yet public. I've had to backs out that patch.    Chris   . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEFFGEAA.tom@kednos.com...h= > running tcpip5.1 under 7.3.  I access mail through pop fromt@ > a W2K bbox running Outlook.  I could send mail but not receiveA > it wasn't getting retrieved from [tom.mail] by Outlook.  In thecB > end I tried rebooting the W2K box and some messages came throughC > but then it stopped again.  Finally rebooted VMS (after trying tolA > anal mail/repair, starting and stopping smtp) and then messgaessC > started to flow, but there still seems to be a lot of messages inLC > my mail dir, and checking the dates some are a few days old.  How C > do I clean this out?  Has anyone else experienced this?  Is therem > a patch required?  >  > --- ( > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.< > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).C > Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002a >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:07:08 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>@ Subject: RE: smtp  problem? 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEFHGEAA.tom@kednos.com>7  " Don't believe I had that patch in.   >-----Original Message-----C8 >From: Chris Sharman [mailto:chris.sharman@sorry.nospam]+ >Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 6:04 AMa >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: smtp problem?  >F >rK >There's some issues with the recent SYS05 patch causing problems with smtpiJ >(and other products), but the details aren't yet public. I've had to back >out that patch. >, >Chris >t/ >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 4 >news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEFFGEAA.tom@kednos.com...> >> running tcpip5.1 under 7.3.  I access mail through pop fromA >> a W2K bbox running Outlook.  I could send mail but not receive B >> it wasn't getting retrieved from [tom.mail] by Outlook.  In theC >> end I tried rebooting the W2K box and some messages came throughLD >> but then it stopped again.  Finally rebooted VMS (after trying toB >> anal mail/repair, starting and stopping smtp) and then messgaesD >> started to flow, but there still seems to be a lot of messages inD >> my mail dir, and checking the dates some are a few days old.  HowD >> do I clean this out?  Has anyone else experienced this?  Is there >> a patch required? >> >> ---) >> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.c= >> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).ID >> Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 >> >  >= >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.=; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).SB >Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 >L ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:14:42 GMT1. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problemsh3 Message-ID: <6tML9.63457$TA6.796803@news.chello.at>.  f In article <slrnavofoi.4lh.ejb@deliverance.lythe.org.uk>, Edward Brocklesby <ejb@lythe.org.uk> writes:; >In article <3DFC1D93.CB71AD3A@eps.zk.dec.com>, Hein wrote:i0 >>  Didn't you simply accidently doubly declare: >r@ >Ugh -- now I feel stupid.  I was looking too closely for errors< >in the VMS specific code that I missed something so simple. >3? >Now I have SS$_NOPRIV (hey, it's not even listed as a possible B >error), but I'm sure I'll find that's caused by something equally >stupid.  D As the name of the source file let me believe that you are trying toI connect to a privileged port (<1024), you need OPER privilege to do this.r@ Maybe a LOG_IO priv is also sufficient but I doubt. Probably theE SYSPRV and/or BYPASS will also work, but they are IMHO an overkill...l  G Note that I haven't checked for this specifics the last couple of yearsaH (mostly because I mainly use TCPware) but I think the statement is still valid.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERs% Network and OpenVMS system specialist, E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 05:18:44 -040000 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: TCPIP: IMAP on VAX buglet/ Message-ID: <3E003D73.109C0025@vl.videotron.ca>o  J I know that IMAP is not supported on VAX VMS. But it is there on TCPIP 5.3  4 There is however a problem in its startup procedure.  K You have to add lines in TCPIP$IMAP_STARTUP.COM (in sys$manager) to installp: SYS$LIBRARY:CMA$RTL.EXE and SYS$LIBRARY:CMA$OPEN_RTL.EXE  E (/open/header/shared) otherwise the IMAP server image fails to start.e  L Interestingly, once all the software has been started, the IMA server can beI restarted succesfully because by that time, it is likely someone else has6 installed CMA stuff.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:22:05 +0000r( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>, Subject: Re: Tracking down a TOP CPU Problem) Message-ID: <3E00302D.532BDF7E@127.0.0.1>    Jeff Zide wrote:< > I have several users that at random times consume 90% plus: > of the CPU on an Alpha 1200 running V7.1-1H1 of OpenVMS.6 > The users only have one file open when this happens,! > [VMS$COMMON.SYSLIB]FDLSHR.EXE;1fS > I run a show dev/file on all of my disks and this is the only file open/attached.e4 > I stop their PID and the system returns to normal.H > All the users that this happens to are at a remote location connecting
 > over a WAN.A   Let me guess, over TCPIP ?  G I saw this issue some while ago, and because a user chose to switch offeE their PC rather than end sessions correctly, it managed to force some4F image into a loop on the VMS box. It also happened when disconnects or% some other networking event happened.2  E And what about the LAT and DECnet users? No problems. Still, you've amC WAN to cover, so its just a hazard of the protocol you've selected.%F TCPIP has totally different design principles to native DEC protocols.  E Anyway, a suggestion to you is to use virtual terminals for these WAN- sessions, it should help.2 -- 4? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesN nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:57:31 +0000d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VAX 7810's.) Message-ID: <3E0070BB.993A8111@127.0.0.1>    Leigh Bowden wrote:s > N > Route is identical i.e. one is unplugged and the other plugged in its place.  D Perhaps it is an issue for having more than one FDDI card. Is DECnet' active on that (other) circuit as well?   F I can't think of any hardware reasons why you should see a difference,G does using the other card show the same behaviour (I appreciate you may- have to reconfigure)?  -- 1? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesn nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:52:54 +0100$" From: "hb1nos" <hb1nos@hb1nos.com>  Subject: VAX-VMS and Packetradio; Message-ID: <3dff8083$0$30074$fb624cd1@news1.zeelandnet.nl>r   Hi,   A Is there someone who has experince with VAX-VMS and Packetradio ?tK I would like to use me VAX-3100/90 as a packetradio station, working with at TNC21S..   Thx..m  ; Packetradioserver HB1NOS Ouwerkerk the Netherlands (JO11XP)t- Internet HTTP/FTP/TELNET tcp/ip 62.238.227.58t0 Packetradio HTTP/FTP/TELNET tcp/ip 27.137.143.50 E-mail : hb1nos@hb1nos.com   www.hb1nos.com www.vmsnetwork.com www.jnosnetwork.comf   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Dec 2002 13:58:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio5 Message-ID: <atpuv0$1h6uu$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  ; In article <3dff8083$0$30074$fb624cd1@news1.zeelandnet.nl>, % 	"hb1nos" <hb1nos@hb1nos.com> writes:" > Hi,  > C > Is there someone who has experince with VAX-VMS and Packetradio ?cM > I would like to use me VAX-3100/90 as a packetradio station, working with am
 > TNC21S.. >   E To do what??  Phil Karn, KA9Q, had his VAX in NJ accesable via PacketeD Radio back in the very early 80's.  I remember connecting to it fromD my father's house in PA just to show someone it could be done.  It'sC nothing to hook a TNC up to a serial port and put it in transparentnF mode.  Of course, there are security problems (including the fact thatE no TNC I have ever worked with used modem signals correctly so if thepC connection breaks you don't get a log-off.  I alsways wanted to fix.D that but packet kindof died.)  I even ran UUCP accross Packet beforeB the big BBS build-up.  I never did understand why they insisted onH re-inventing the wheel when Email and News were already well established by that point.  , bill  KB3YV (formerly N2APY, formerly DA1WO)   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Dec 2002 14:20:27 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)$ Subject: Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio5 Message-ID: <atq07a$1eel9$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   3 In article <ASRgBx9JtCi7@eisner.encompasserve.org>,2. 	wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) writes:= > In article <3dff8083$0$30074$fb624cd1@news1.zeelandnet.nl>,V& > "hb1nos" <hb1nos@hb1nos.com> writes: >> Hi, >>D >> Is there someone who has experince with VAX-VMS and Packetradio ? > * > I have run a PACCOM Tnc-2 on a MicroVAX. > N >> I would like to use me VAX-3100/90 as a packetradio station, working with a >> TNC21S..  > G > I rigged up some quick and dirty DCL scripts with the Packet Modem intL > single session mode that allowed remote users to send me e-mail, and a few? > other things, including playing the classic "Adventure" game.f > Q > I used a DHU-11 for the serial port, as using the Packet Modem needs full modem-
 > control.  C I have never seen a TNC-2 that properly impolemented modem signals. C Most do little more than raise DCD on connect and they only do thats; so you can have a buzzer wired up to it as a connect alarm.2   > Q > Be aware that I have one model of Packet Modem that has the serial line signalseH > wired wrong internally.  It is sending the DSR signal on the RTS line. > Q > I also have a program that puts the Packet Modem in "RAW" mode, and it displayse" > a formatted dump of the packets.  C I believe the correct name for that is KISS mode and there is quiteuC a bit of software that makes very good use of it.  Particularly foro doing TCPIP.   > * > The typical packet modem has four modes: >  > Single session mode. >  > Multiple session mode. > 	 > RXBLOCKh >  > RAW? > K > The RXBLOCK mode was intended for computer to packet modem communication, P > unfortunately it does not provide the sender or receiver of the packets to theQ > computer, making it useless for anything other than a dedicated telemetry link.a > : > The single session mode can be used with simple scripts.  B Actually, this can be used quite well for connecting to a computer& when you set all the right parameters.   > Q > Multiple session mode prefixes lines displayed with the session letter, and canA? > be used with some client programs to track multiple sessions.u > P > It can not be used by a computer in "Bulletin Board" mode, because the sessionH > prefixes are only displayed if there are more than one session active. >  > N > That leaves "raw" mode.  In raw mode, you get the raw AX.25 data packet, andN > the computer must do all the session encoding and decoding, and negotiation.  D KISS mode.  As I said, it was originally developed by the TCPIP guysF but I think other packages have been made to work with it.  It's greatH for writing a statistical monitoring package if you wanted to accurately4 track how much traffic you had on a channel locally.   >  > M > The other difficulty with accessing OpenVMS programs from a Packet Modem isaO > that the Packet Modem is 1/2 duplex, and sends a line at a time.  So programssL > that wait for and expect only a single key press do not work well with it.  F Not necessarily.  There is another mode, called transparent mode, thatC will also send packets on timeout.  This is inefficent from a radio E aspect as you could easily end out sending packet thith only one byte F of data in them.  But for some computer communications, like running aI full screen editor, it is necessary.  I have done this, ages ago.  I have0I had real computers available over packet since at least 1982.  Of course,>? packet has all but died around here and I don't bother anymore.u   > M > This caused some interesting dialogs with the Adventure game in some cases.n >  > 7 > I hope to get this running again soon at my home QTH.w  F Probably the easiest way to get a VMS machine on packet would be usingF TCPIP.  A simple machine between the VAX and the packet modem could doE all of the networking part, running KA9Q's program which I am sure iseC still available, maybe even still being developed.  Of course, some F hams around here got very upset when I put up my first AMPR TCPIP net.E Something about it not doing morse code.  (I had what was, I believe,-B the first live AMPRNET <-> INTERNET interconnect in the world evenC though I was repeatedly told that it was a) illegal, b) technically B impossible and c) nobody wanted INTERNET from their homes anyway.)   bill  KB3YV    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:15:44 +0100 B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> Subject: Re: VM web ring & spamt7 Message-ID: <3DFF5BC0.4960@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>r   JF Mezei wrote:a > A > I have had an email account for years which was never used for r& > newsgroups and rarely ever got spam. > E > In recent weeks though, I seem to have been receiving spam on that oC > account. I am trying to find out why I would have suddently have a > gotten on lists. > C > My VMS pages are not yet indexed. However, I did add them to the n > vms web ring.n > E > Is it possible that it was the vms web ring which allowed my email lF > address (either willingly or not) to propagate to spam lists ? Does ( > anyone else have similar experiences ?  @ The vms web ring hub is indexed by Google (search in Google for C Mezei and OpenVMS). So any search spider could find your page this . way.   -- b ME Posted by news://news.nb.nuh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:50:53 -0500c# From: "Island" <sales@islandco.com>  Subject: We need your DS10's/ Message-ID: <uvv01727r959ec@news.supernews.com>e  # We are actively buying DS10 systemss! Call us if you have ANY to sell !t   Thanks   -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corporationa 2700 Gregory St., Suite 180t Savannah GA 31404t Tel: 912 447 6622o Fax: 912 201 0402> Email: dbturner@hpaq.net www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 01:10:18 -0800% From: Bart.Zorn@xs4all.nl (Bart Zorn) D Subject: Re: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ?= Message-ID: <a98cd882.0212180110.7f45472b@posting.google.com>    Ton,  B Have a look at http://www.nlcug.nl/HTML/NLCUG/SIGs/OpenVMS-sig.htm  E The OpenVMS SIG is not very active (yet) but most (if not all) of thea' members are also following comp.os.vms.r  D Now the the merger of Interex-NL and NLCUG is complete there will be< some changes in the organisational structure and also in the terminology.   Hope this helps,  	 Bart Zorno  e "Ton den Hartog" <tonh@xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<3dffc01f$0$88861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...  > Hi,t > L > are there any people from the Netherlands in this group ? I am looking for3 > contact with companies or people that use OpenVMSn > $ > Ton den Hartog, ICT Automatisering >  >  >  > ----$ > Computer museum tonh: www.tonh.net > - GUI version of GGGallery !   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:30:36 +0000?( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem] ( Message-ID: <3E00322C.4C3AB46@127.0.0.1>   "Bochnik, William J" wrote:  >  > ...nK > he also figured out that "media" goes in the vcr to watch - hasnt figureda4 > out the difference between tapes and dvd's yet tho  G My 3 YO daughter hasn't sussed the difference between DVDs and CDs, butoC she knows where the videos go, how to power up the surround, TV and D video (including swapping tapes), and powering up the hi-fi for CDs,2 including the discrete D/A converter in the chain!  G She's a bright kid though, when she's with me when I'm in the 'machine'hG room, she goes for the VT keyboard everytime, and sits 'tapping' on hero knees.   -- r? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciencesd nclews at csc dot com?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:53:36 +0000u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]g8 Message-ID: <kod00vggodmtm689tiksu4mvqimdr1494k@4ax.com>  8 On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:50:51 -0500, "Bochnik, William J"! <William_Bochnik@acml.com> wrote:.  L >and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guy laughed atM >me about gettting it fixed - a new vcr can be had for around $50, and they'doM >probably charge 20-30 to replace a stupid plastic piece - bad design IMHO top >sell new vcr's ' >- my parents first vcr lasted 15 yearsn >- my first vcr lasted 8 >- this last one lasted 1 year  A My first VCR (Sanyo Betamax) bought in 1981 still works. A littler% sluggish at rewinding but that's all.E   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:00:02 -0500k! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>eE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]n' Message-ID: <3DFF5812.863EC24F@vcu.edu>o  B "Daddy, did you know that if i step on a bagel, it fits in the dvd
 player???"   'enuf said... jim    "Bochnik, William J" wrote:p > ? > we use vcr locks to prevent him putting things in the vcr but0I > 1 - they can not be in place when a tape is being watched (this was the L > issue here - he kept putting the tape in and taking it out over and over -3 > the mechanism that lifts the casette up wore out)hL > 2 - he also discovered how to lever one side out, and then use it to forceN > the door off the vcr - kid's only 20 months - cant wait to see what he takes
 > apart next.l > K > he also figured out that "media" goes in the vcr to watch - hasnt figured84 > out the difference between tapes and dvd's yet tho >  > -----Original Message-----* > From: Jim Agnew [mailto:jpagnew@vcu.edu]+ > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:18 AM> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com G > Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]f > N > my son kept going to the vcr and saying "Ernie".. we thought he'd meant thatL > the muppets and sesame street was connect to the vhs tape... well, after a > while, we figured out: > ' > 1. all of 'em were named ernie to himi > L > 2. Cookie monster was under the read/write head, and was a magnetic fridge
 > sticker....u > $ > talk about your fuzzy playback.... >  > "Bochnik, William J" wrote:  > >iD > > and now these days why my son broke our 1 year old vcr - the guyD > > laughed at me about gettting it fixed - a new vcr can be had forD > > around $50, and they'd probably charge 20-30 to replace a stupid5 > > plastic piece - bad design IMHO to sell new vcr's * > > - my parents first vcr lasted 15 years > > - my first vcr lasted 8i! > > - this last one lasted 1 yearo > >c > > -----Original Message-----+ > > From: John Santos [mailto:JOHN@egh.com]8+ > > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:31 PMn > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComiI > > Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]i > > $ > > On 16 Dec 2002, Rob Young wrote: > >n< > > > In article <atkiuj$14kk9e$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,0 > > > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:0 > > > > In article <3DFD44A0.7040904@rdrop.com>,3 > > > >     Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:c > > > >> Stuart Fuller wrote: ' > > > >>> norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:h	 > > > >>>e% > > > >>>>Actually, that should read: 
 > > > >>>>? > > > >>>>Q: How does a Field Service Engineer fix a flat tire?uD > > > >>>>A: He keeps swapping in spares until he gets the four good > > > >>>>tires.	 > > > >>>e+ > > > >>>>The second one is just not funny.l > > > >>. > > > >>> Actually, neither of them are funny. > > > >>J > > > >> You're right, it's not funny.  But I've seen problems solved withC > > > >> that approach, all too frequently.  And note that I didn'ti > > > >> specify aG > > > >> company- I've seen the same basic methodology applied by FSE'st< > > > >> (or whatever the title) from all the major players. > > > >> > > > >pE > > > > Bet you never considered that you might be the problem.  Your  > > expectations< > > > > are just way to high.       :-)   well, actually :-( > > > >lG > > > > You wouldn't believe the looks of surprise a few weeks ago when0F > > > > some of the faculty and students came into my research lab andG > > > > found me sitting over a VS3100 motherboard with a hot soldering@J > > > > iron in my hand. And we won't even go into the PDP-11/44 with it'sH > > > > power supply all pulled apart.  But then, board swapping on most. > > > > of these boxes isn't really an option. > > > >@D > > > > It's yet more fallout from the PC revolution.  Repair is now' > > > > synonomous with board-swapping.n > > > >i > > >aD > > >       Funny... very similar conversation came up yesterday.  A > > > fellow	 > > aboutgI > > >       my age (few years older) told me a how he told his sons about>M > > >       TV repairmen.  They used to come to your house and fix the TV.  I M > > >       remember that too.  A giant toolbox with tubes in it , taking theoN > > >       correct one out for the burnt one.  That then became the homeownerB > > >       finding the burned out one and going to RadioShack and > > > matching it5 > > upG > > >       (of course many still called TV repairmen).  Today there isy	 > nothing I > > >       but a hand full of printed circuit boards.  Thing breaks, getn > > anotherc > > >       one. > > > ' > > >                               Rob  > >pH > > I suffered with a broken TV (not the primary one) for many years. ItA > > had intermittent color.  Sometimes all 3 colors were present,mH > > sometimes there was no red.  (I think, or maybe the red & green gunsJ > > were both firing on the Green signal, or something.  Anyway, it lookedG > > realy wierd.)  I finally broke down and called a TV repair man.  HepF > > came to my house, took one look, said "it's such and so capacitor.I > > Common problem with NEC's."  He took out his soldering iron, put in atH > > new cap in about 5 minutes, and then spent a few minutes getting theG > > color balance perfect.  (Before starting, he asked if the sound wasrC > > okay.  Apparently they're not worth fixing if the sound is gonee	 > > too.)u > >tF > > So I got a perfectly working 20" NEC color TV for about $95, IIRC. > > This was about 2 years ago.e > >m > > -- > > John Santosb  > > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > > 781-861-0670 ext 539 > >uI > > The information contained in this transmission may contain privilegedGH > > and confidential information and is intended only for the use of theH > > person(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or anD > > employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to theB > > intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution orH > > duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you areH > > not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately byG > > reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. PleaserD > > note that we do not accept account orders and/or instructions byG > > e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying out suchL > > orders and/or instructions.  > K > The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andaL > confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)N > named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentH > responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyM > review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is L > strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactF > the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theK > original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/ortL > instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying& > out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.698 ************************