1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 19 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 699       Contents:# Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times # Re: announcing Customer First Times " Re: Any Florian experts out there?) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller ) Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller 2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphaJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing AlphJ Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph! RE: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership  Re: DECwindows vs TCPIP startup  Re: DECwindows vs TCPIP startup 4 RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: hobbyist first steps (was Re: OpenVMS software?)K Re: How cookies work (was: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions P Re: How cookies work (was: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business SolutionsCD) S! Intergraph turns its sights on HP % RE: Intergraph turns its sights on HP  Re: Machine Check on VAX Re: Machine Check on VAX0 Re: MX 4.2 on VMS 7.7-2 w/ TCP/IP Services ECO 3+ Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker - OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list. 1 Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list. 1 Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list. ? Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list. (not totally) 6 OT: Chocolate, was RE: announcing Customer First Times: Re: OT: Chocolate, was RE: announcing Customer First Times- Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - RE: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? # Re: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard # RE: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard  Re: Procedure question... & Re: SIMH 2.10-1 VAX binaries for Win324 SMG$ cookbook (was: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard)$ Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems. TECSys Consoleworks on VMS - first impressions Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio  Re: VM web ring & spam7 Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ? & Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:15:13 -0500 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> , Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times/ Message-ID: <uvvj13756odv22@news.supernews.com>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:JvvqFe9KvY8z@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <uvv41ojkb8qccd@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes: > >>L > >> We are pleased to announce that the first edition of the Customer FirstE > >> Times (formerly the Alpha Systems Times) is now available in pdf  format.  > >>D > >> The newsletter has been expanded to include the most up to date > > information,F > >> program news and product directions for Business Critical Systems productsK > >> including Alpha, HP e3000, HP 9000, OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX, plus links  to > >> HPTC, NonStop and Linux.  > >> > > 8 > > Why isn't NSK considered a business critical system? > ? > They did not say "business critical system", which would be a F > descriptive phrase.  They said "Business Critical Systems products",F > which means products coming from a particular division.  Nonstop/NSKG > come from a different division, which seems appropriate to me because ( > their hardware needs are so different.  E Sorry, I should have said: Why isn't NonStop/NSK part of the Business J Critical Systems group? I suppose that the unique hardware requirements ofI NSK is one angle but it seems to make more sense (at least to me) to have F the Business Critical Systems group handle all of the systems that areJ business critical and that clearly includes NSK.  Currently, it seems thatK NSK is competing against OpenVMS and HP-UX/Tru64.  I think HP should have a G coordinated strategy that explains and exploits all of their strengths.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:50:19 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times/ Message-ID: <3DFFD45A.28028311@vl.videotron.ca>    John Vottero wrote: 6 > Why isn't NSK considered a business critical system?  L Because Tandem/NSK isn't stated to oblivion. The "Business Critical" monikerL refers to the department that handles all the systems HP doesn't really care$ about ( Alpha based, and MP/E stuff)     :-) ;-) ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:34:57 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: Re: announcing Customer First Times. Message-ID: <3DFFEDC6.FFCF2F6@vl.videotron.ca>   John Vottero wrote: G > Sorry, I should have said: Why isn't NonStop/NSK part of the Business  > Critical Systems group?    Fast rewind to May 7th.   H Tandem is its own division. Alpha based products were their own division (headed by Marcello).   6 So VMS was bundled into the "dead products" division.   L I also recall comments from one engineer who alluded to there being very few4 contacts between the VMS folks and the Tandem folks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:20:19 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> + Subject: Re: Any Florian experts out there? ' Message-ID: <3DFFE973.6436C023@fsi.net>    Donnie Vazquez wrote:  > F > Subject pretty much says it all. I have some questions about the VMS > utility Florian.  C Florian is an "undelete" program that pre-dates DFU. DFU is better, C IMHO, since it does so much more than just undelete (in those cases " where undelete is even possible!).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:08:16 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller' Message-ID: <3DFFE6A0.A46FD4FE@fsi.net>    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  > 3 > Doesn't solve your problem with Destiller, but...  > : > I tried for a while to "destill" output from DECdocument8 > with Destiller but always got a number of font-errors.; > Swapped to Ghostscript with the PDF-driver instead. Works : > just fine. But, as said, this is output from DECdoc, notA > from Bookreader. If you don't want to setup Ghostscript just to E > test, you could send me one of your PS files (ZIPed and "attached") < > to jan-erik.soderholm-at-pac-dot-ericsson-dot-com and I'll  > try it right away in my setup.  C As it turns out, yes, the .PS output from BookReader is essentially E trash for my purpose. I spoke to a nice person at CSC who provided me F .PS for the print-quality doc.'s, and that distilled just fine. Now, I. just need to find a printer with a duplexer...   Thanx for the offer, tho.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:56:20 -0500 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Bookreader, .PS and Acrobat Distiller/ Message-ID: <3E001C14.7C11A8B2@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  H > .PS for the print-quality doc.'s, and that distilled just fine. Now, I0 > just need to find a printer with a duplexer...  N On a MAC, the Acrobat reader allows you to print odd/even pages, in forward or8 reserve order. This allows you to anually proint duplex.  K (print odd pages in forward order, turn paper back into printer, print even  pages in reverse order.)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 06:24:31 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha - Message-ID: <87vg1sgu74.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:   > Shane Smith wrote: > > B > > AFAIK, there is no Athlon 3000+ available yet, so I think your > > assumption is safe.  > M > Mr Smith, since you seem to be so keen on games, how would you react to the  > following statements:  >  > 1-O > Since games require heavy duty CPU, Alpha would have been very popular in the Q > gaming community if it was affordable and if games were available to run on it.  >  >  > 2-O > Assuming (1) is true, *IF* Alpha/VMS had support for some of the most popular P > games which ran significantly faster than on windows, gamers would have had noP > philosophical problems of using VMS to run their games because it would be theZ > ultimate workstation. (eg: OS agnostic as long as the OS runs their games best/fastest).   3-  B Even if performance was a wash, many game-heads would buy and pushD Alpha because it is better in the `coolness' and small-car stakes :)     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:21:42 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 2 Message-ID: <T6-dnexxfM4WImKgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message , news:g7acncNVi49-AWOgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net...   ...      IfG > indeed the direct mapping of the EV6 off-chip L2 is not a significant J > handicap, and its latency is as advertised, then EV7 may not perform allJ > that much better than EV6 on latency-sensitive workloads, since its muchK > faster memory may be largely offset by the much smaller and not that much I > faster on-chip L2 (I find this difficult to believe, but we'll see soon 
 > enough).  H There is, however, another important dimension to the above observation.  L Even if a single-processor 1.2 GHz EV7 is no faster at SPECint than the 1.25J GHz EV68 with 16 MB of off-chip cache (an alphaserverdirections.ppt file IF recently found suggests that it will still be 20+% faster at TPC-C andH perhaps 40+% faster at FP and HPTC activities), the situation may changeL significantly in multi-processor environments.  While the 16 MB of L2 is allJ you get in an ES45, for example, with EV7 the on-chip L2 scales up as moreK processors are added:  a 4-processor EV7 system has 7 MB total of L2, which F should help significantly in TPC-C (TPC-C should also benefit from theK excellent inter-processor communication characteristics of EV7), perhaps in @ SPECint_rate as well, and certainly in real-world MP situations.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:28:28 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1712022028280001@user-2ive2eu.dialup.mindspring.com>  > In article <T6-dnexxfM4WImKgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   I >There is, however, another important dimension to the above observation.  > M >Even if a single-processor 1.2 GHz EV7 is no faster at SPECint than the 1.25 K >GHz EV68 with 16 MB of off-chip cache (an alphaserverdirections.ppt file I G >recently found suggests that it will still be 20+% faster at TPC-C and I >perhaps 40+% faster at FP and HPTC activities), the situation may change M >significantly in multi-processor environments.  While the 16 MB of L2 is all K >you get in an ES45, for example, with EV7 the on-chip L2 scales up as more L >processors are added:  a 4-processor EV7 system has 7 MB total of L2, whichG >should help significantly in TPC-C (TPC-C should also benefit from the L >excellent inter-processor communication characteristics of EV7), perhaps inA >SPECint_rate as well, and certainly in real-world MP situations.   H Please check the ES45 Quickspecs again, particularly "Step 2, additional
 CPU modules".   L The ES45 has 8MB of cache per CPU (at 1 GHz) or 16 MB per CPU (at 1.25 GHz).  B So a fully-loaded 1.25 GHz ES45 with 4 CPUs has 64 MB of L2 cache.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:56:44 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph 2 Message-ID: <ZEGdnTlNZdlMSGKgXTWc3A@metrocast.net>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message F news:rdeininger-1712022028280001@user-2ive2eu.dialup.mindspring.com...@ > In article <T6-dnexxfM4WImKgXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"! > <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  > K > >There is, however, another important dimension to the above observation.  > > J > >Even if a single-processor 1.2 GHz EV7 is no faster at SPECint than the 1.25K > >GHz EV68 with 16 MB of off-chip cache (an alphaserverdirections.ppt file  I I > >recently found suggests that it will still be 20+% faster at TPC-C and K > >perhaps 40+% faster at FP and HPTC activities), the situation may change K > >significantly in multi-processor environments.  While the 16 MB of L2 is  all H > >you get in an ES45, for example, with EV7 the on-chip L2 scales up as moreH > >processors are added:  a 4-processor EV7 system has 7 MB total of L2, which I > >should help significantly in TPC-C (TPC-C should also benefit from the K > >excellent inter-processor communication characteristics of EV7), perhaps  inC > >SPECint_rate as well, and certainly in real-world MP situations.  > J > Please check the ES45 Quickspecs again, particularly "Step 2, additional > CPU modules".  > H > The ES45 has 8MB of cache per CPU (at 1 GHz) or 16 MB per CPU (at 1.25 GHz).  > D > So a fully-loaded 1.25 GHz ES45 with 4 CPUs has 64 MB of L2 cache.  H Interesting.  If that's indeed the case, it seems a bit strange that theJ 4-processor 1.25 GHz system used for the latest TPC-C results used only 16L MB of cache, then - and in any event it seems likely that a total of 7 MB ofL considerably faster L2 in a 4-processor EV7 system with half the main-memory; latency should improve the result the EV68 system attained.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:54:44 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)S Subject: Re: Crunching SETI (was:ORe: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alph L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1712022154440001@user-2ive2eu.dialup.mindspring.com>  > In article <ZEGdnTlNZdlMSGKgXTWc3A@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:     E >> So a fully-loaded 1.25 GHz ES45 with 4 CPUs has 64 MB of L2 cache.  > I >Interesting.  If that's indeed the case, it seems a bit strange that the K >4-processor 1.25 GHz system used for the latest TPC-C results used only 16 M >MB of cache, then - and in any event it seems likely that a total of 7 MB of M >considerably faster L2 in a 4-processor EV7 system with half the main-memory < >latency should improve the result the EV68 system attained.  2 I agree, something seems strange in these results.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:18:10 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: RE: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership0 Message-ID: <01C2A687.2A56E9D0@sulfer.icius.com>  ? Look hard at the website, there's a free membership link hidden @ somewhere, and it's good enough for a hobbyist license. IIRC VMSG engineering demanded it be made available so the hobbyist license would  remain free.   Shane    -----Original Message-----> From: Patrick Caulfield [mailto:patrick@NOSPAMtykepenguin.com]* Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 3:52 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership    F Just got my renewal for this year and it's more than doubled in price! from 25ukp to 55.   2 Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.   Patrick    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:58:06 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: DECwindows vs TCPIP startup5 Message-ID: <atqk0f$1pj7u$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   ? "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> schreef in bericht ) news:3E003E52.7E4E0441@vl.videotron.ca... J > Currently, in my startup procedure, I submit a job to start TCPIP stuff, and 7 > at the end of the STARTUP.COM, VMS starts decwindows.  > J > If i define DEC$_INSTALL_TCPIP, but the time Decwindows start, the TCPIPJ > software has not been started yet, so it is incapable of binding to port 6000! > to listen for inbound requests.  > L > The obvious solution would be to run TCPIP$STARTUP interactively. However, > this can be time consuming.  > < > What sort of strategies exist ? Do most start TCPIP in the SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM < > to make sure it is filly up before decwindows gets going ? > F > Ideally, tere would be 2 TCPIP$STARTUP: one for the core, and then a separateF > one for all the servers. This way, the core could be quickly startedG > interactively, and the servers then started in bacth or other method.  >  > Comments ?  I I guess it depends in what hurry you are to get things started up. IMHO a K fast VAXstation (defined as a 4000-90 or faster) it does not take that much  time to get everything started. D Everything in my case means: DECnet phase 5, LAT and IP, a couple ofK compiler startup files and then DECW. A 4000-90A beats a Pentium II 350 MMX  with windows 2000 server. J On a slower system, like my 3100-M48, submitting the IP job in batch slowsF down things since STARTUP and TCPIP$STARTUP seem to compete for scarce$ resources: cpu cycles and disk IO's.K Besides, I tend to keep my systems running. They reboot perhaps a couple of G times per year, it ain't windows you keep VMS running. I mean you don't B power off your refrigerator either after a couple of beers, right?  J BTW on my systems DECW$INSTALL_TCPIP is defined in SYLOGICALS.COM and thatC takes care of your problem as well, whatever strategy you prefer to 
 implement.   Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 00:08:34 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>( Subject: Re: DECwindows vs TCPIP startup/ Message-ID: <3E014642.6F3E03B3@vl.videotron.ca>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > I'd try DEFINE-ing DECW$IGNORE_DECWINDOWS in SYSTARTUP_VMS, and let the F > proc. that invokes TCPIP$STARTUP try to kickoff DECwindows after the! > TCP/IP stack is up and started.   K Which would be the moral equivalent to executing the whole TCPIP$STARTUP in . SYSTARTUP_VMS prior to decwindows starting up.  M When you look at the differences between TCPIP 5.0 and 5.3, there are a whole  lot more servers to start.  J TCPIP$STARTUP 5.3 takes 4.5 minutes on a 3100-30.  (BIND, POP, IMAP, SMTP, FTP, TELNET)D TCPIP$STARTUP 5.0 takes 3.0 minutes on a Microvax II  ( FTP, TELNET)  K So if the microvax II were to take the full load, it would probably take 40 * minutes to execute the startup :-) ;-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:23:37 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>= Subject: RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 0 Message-ID: <01C2A687.FD2C2640@sulfer.icius.com>   But in that case, it's true.   -----Original Message-----8 From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]* Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:16 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)     3 In article <jEYWgDjgFPYi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > N > "UNIX is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are inI > UNIX, then they must be bad.  Sorry, I don't believe in this religion."  > G >                                               -- Dave Cutler, NT lead 	 Architect L >                                                  UNIXWorld - February 1992   Hmmmmm.....   H "VMS is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are   in VMS, then they must be bad."   Works just as well.    bill   --  C Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 11:42:42 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212181142.23967053@posting.google.com>   i frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large) wrote in message news:<g32XCQdJg7Ox@eisner.encompasserve.org>... j > In article <d7791aa1.0212170808.596aa720@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:C > > you better tell the vms group to stop the itanium port then ... ? > > actually I am hearing otherwise, that vms system sales have C > > held steady, mainly because linux and windoze are no where near F > > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ...? > > why would a company want to essentially start over with new @ > > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms? > > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel? D > > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little? > > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features > > > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now7 > > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not!  > K > 	Here's one VMS customer perspective, and I warn you it's depressing.  I  O > work for a software vendor that has a computer-aided dispatch application as  J > our primary product.  Our clients are 911 dispatch agencies.  Security, Q > clustering, uptime, and excellent response are all critical to this business.   Q > Our "Legacy" product has been running on VMS since PDP days, and we still port  R > it to Alphas when clients ask us to.  We have a dedicated, but shrinking, group D > of people working on enhancements and maintenance of this product.K > 	A few years ago we bowed down to the pointy-clicky demand and developed  O > a Windows/unix version of our product.  Even these critical agencies are run  H > by PHB's who read about how slick Windows or linux is in the business M > magazines.  So our customers are gradually, one by one, "upgrading" to the  P > newer product.  All of our competitors in this market are also either windows  > or unix/linux platforms.J > 	People are now placing priority on the ability to drag and drop police O > car icons onto burglary incident icons, for example, rather than maintaining  ' > uptime, data integrity, and security.  > J > 	BTW, nobody's commented on the recent Microsoft tv ads with the motto: P > "software for the agile business".  Don't these make you want to vomit?  This M > is the kind of thing, combined with no marketing of VMS that is causing an  > > (IMO) irrational migration of critical systems to Microsoft.  D why not just have developed a windoze front end with a vms back end?A thats what we do when a pretty front end is requested ... you are C the ones making the mistake and doing a disservice to your customer B base by putting the whole system on garbage unix/linux/windoze ...A and then when problems arise, they will blame you, not the os ... ) not very smart on your companies part ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:45:09 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>= Subject: RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 0 Message-ID: <01C2A68A.F81CA640@sulfer.icius.com>   > 7 >From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]  > : >frey@encompasserve.org (Lurker at Large) wrote in message1 news:>><g32XCQdJg7Ox@eisner.encompasserve.org>... @ >> In article <d7791aa1.0212170808.596aa720@posting.google.com>,+ bob@instantwhip.com >(Bob Ceculski) writes: D >> > you better tell the vms group to stop the itanium port then ...@ >> > actually I am hearing otherwise, that vms system sales haveD >> > held steady, mainly because linux and windoze are no where nearG >> > the level of vms when it comes to clustering, security, uptime ... @ >> > why would a company want to essentially start over with newA >> > feature short, bug rich os's like linux and windoze when vms @ >> > has 25 years in and is superior ... why reinvent the wheel?E >> > and cost?  it is going to be a whole lot cheaper to pay a little @ >> > more for a vms license and reap the tco in uptime, features? >> > then to start over and go thru the nightmares that are now 8 >> > being experienced in windoze/linux ... I think not! >>  L >> 	Here's one VMS customer perspective, and I warn you it's depressing.  I L >> work for a software vendor that has a computer-aided dispatch application as  K >> our primary product.  Our clients are 911 dispatch agencies.  Security,  F >> clustering, uptime, and excellent response are all critical to this business.   L >> Our "Legacy" product has been running on VMS since PDP days, and we still port  L >> it to Alphas when clients ask us to.  We have a dedicated, but shrinking, group E >> of people working on enhancements and maintenance of this product. L >> 	A few years ago we bowed down to the pointy-clicky demand and developed K >> a Windows/unix version of our product.  Even these critical agencies are  run I >> by PHB's who read about how slick Windows or linux is in the business  N >> magazines.  So our customers are gradually, one by one, "upgrading" to the H >> newer product.  All of our competitors in this market are also either windows  >> or unix/linux platforms. K >> 	People are now placing priority on the ability to drag and drop police  C >> car icons onto burglary incident icons, for example, rather than  maintaining ( >> uptime, data integrity, and security. >>  K >> 	BTW, nobody's commented on the recent Microsoft tv ads with the motto:  J >> "software for the agile business".  Don't these make you want to vomit? This  N >> is the kind of thing, combined with no marketing of VMS that is causing an ? >> (IMO) irrational migration of critical systems to Microsoft.  >>E >why not just have developed a windoze front end with a vms back end? B >thats what we do when a pretty front end is requested ... you areD >the ones making the mistake and doing a disservice to your customerC >base by putting the whole system on garbage unix/linux/windoze ... B >and then when problems arise, they will blame you, not the os ...* >not very smart on your companies part ...  G Better idea: Charge more maintenance for the non-VMS flavours and quote C the difference in platform quality as the reason. Give examples and F links. It's win-win. Either you make more money for a Windows sale, orH you get less grief and save someone from the Dark Side at the same time.   Shane    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:16:39 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> = Subject: Re: hobbyist first steps (was Re: OpenVMS software?) ' Message-ID: <3E013A17.EC19698F@fsi.net>    Tim Smith wrote: > D > Thank you this is perfect!  I can't wait to tinker.  Yes I was notG > sure that the website was the real deal.  With so many old VMS system G > managers out there I'm surprised it has not been updated.  Especially G > as the O/S is perfect for comp sci students learning operating system ? > concepts as it provides a real alternative to UNIX and NT.  I E > purchased an Alpha 3000 for $200 (as long as ebay comes through) so G > here is hoping I will be able to set up this server in my basement...  >  > Tim  >  > craig.berry@SignalTreeSolutions.com (Craig A. Berry) wrote in message news:<7f15589f.0212171941.19a6d57b@posting.google.com>... A > > In article <a7234bb1.0212170912.600c9f50@posting.google.com>, - > >  timasmith@hotmail.com (Tim Smith) wrote:  > > K > > >    I have been there before but I am getting lost in following links. , > > > Can you provide a more direct link for > > > a) Ordering Vms 7.x CDs  > > 1 > > <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/mount.html>  > > ' > > > b) Ordering the hobbyist license.  > > I > > First get a free associate membership from the society formerly known 
 > > as DECUS:  > > ? > > <https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm>  > > . > > (or local DECUS branch if not in the U.S.) > > G > > Then go back to Montagar and get licenses for the OS and also (in a ( > > separate step) for layered products: > > < > > <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/register_license.html> > > I > > While you are waiting for things (membership, licenses, media, etc.), ) > > do read carefully the OpenVMS FAQ at:  > > < > >  <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html> > >  > >  > > > thanks for being patient.  > > B > > Thank *you* for being patient.  OpenVMS itself will repay yourH > > persistence, but it is harder than it should be to get started.  TheE > > Montagar hobbyist pages are an embarrassing hodge-podge of inside I > > jokes.  For example, lurking under "MOUNT/MEDIA=CDROM" on the left of G > > the screen is a link to the page where you can order hobbyist media < > > kits, which happen to come on CD-ROM, though the commandH > > "MOUNT/MEDIA=CDROM" would be the wrong way to mount one of these CDsG > > since they are in a native VMS format and not in ISO 9660, which is ? > > what that command implies.   That's just one example of the I > > newbie-unfriendly nature of the site.  I don't think the well-meaning J > > Montagar folks who volunteer their time intended to be inscrutable; itJ > > just never occurred to them that someone who wasn't already an OpenVMSI > > guru might be interested (or they just have a really bad sense of web J > > design).  They have also not updated the kits in three years (and haveG > > sold out of VAX kits), and whenever this comes up claim to have new I > > kits in the works real soon now.  One wishes they would either get it  > > done or ask for help.   E I forwarded Tim and Craig's comments to John and David (of D/FW fame) / this morning. I have yet to receive a response.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 15:14:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) T Subject: Re: How cookies work (was: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business Solutions3 Message-ID: <fItQ8MG9zg3r@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3E00E577.9060301@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  > $ set teach_mode on  > R > When you fill a form on a WEB site, the remote program which processes the form S > establishes a synchronization process to know whom it is talking to and what did  Q > it do. This task-to-task kind of protocole is recorded on the hard disk of the  N > "Client" in a special datafile, called a cookie file, which also contains a  > special unique identifier.   $ set teach_mode on   # Only with poorly designed web site. , Good web sites do this with "hidden fields".   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:32:31 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>Y Subject: Re: How cookies work (was: Ordering info for the OpenVMS Business SolutionsCD) S ' Message-ID: <3E0159F0.EBCAFB82@Free.fr>    JF Mezei wrote:  > K > Are you sure it can be deleted ? I don't recall commands to do so (unless  > there are javascript tricks).   L I participated to a big VMS/WASD/DCL project last year in a Zurich bank. TheP server and the Clients wer all VMS boxes. As all scripting was done with DCL, itL was easy to take care of the cookie files (the security was a huge concern).  9 Thanks for your clarification, I am a poor self-made man.    D. --  3   ------------------------------------------------- 3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr 0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928 3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 --------------------------------------------------- 3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondre    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:11:35 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: Intergraph turns its sights on HP0 Message-ID: <01C2A69F.81F56870@sulfer.icius.com>  9 http://www.intergraph.com/press02/ReleaseCorp12-16-02.aspC  H Apparently, having just won its intellectual property case against IntelH has turned to HP, Dell and Gateway. It specifies the patents in questionD relate to cache memory, but doesn't mention on which chip. I believe! they're referring to the Itanium.(   From the article:nG "The settlement agreement with Intel, however, did not include licenseshD for Intel's customers - the OEMs who incorporated an Intel processorB with non-Intel products in their computers. In fact, the agreementE expressly excludes any license regarding the OEMs' sale of infringingOH computer systems and specifically records Intergraph's intention to seek* payment for patent licenses from the OEMs"  G So, basically, they've stuck Intel with a bill and now they're going to F stick the guys who use the chips after they've bought them from Intel.E Nice work if you can get it. I wonder how much that's going to add tooF the cost of the Itanic, and inevitably the Itanic servers VMS is being
 ported to?  & Dooo do de do, wooo weee - Hammertime!   Shanes   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:12:01 -0800c$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>. Subject: RE: Intergraph turns its sights on HP0 Message-ID: <01C2A6C0.FAFBC1D0@sulfer.icius.com>  D It gets worse. Apparently there's a bug in the Merced that can cause "data integrity problems".  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6754  % Dooo do-de do, woo wee - Hammertime!*    Shanet  F *=Apologies to M.C. Hammer for nicking a line from his music, just forB those who mailed me with "what the [bleep] are you talking about".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:38:07 +0100s" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>! Subject: Re: Machine Check on VAXa5 Message-ID: <atqmbg$1p842$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>r  ? "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> schreef in berichtr) news:3E00CC06.33403B23@vl.videotron.ca...sG > Yesterday, I had an odd occurance on my 3100-30.  (it is is a vax...)/ >sK > The BIND server crashed. TCPIP would restart it, and it would crash again  as# > son as the first request came in.  >pJ > Looked in the logs and it generated a Machine check. TCPIP then disabled theeL > service. I re-enabled it, the bind server is re-created, seems to stand upJ > fine, until the first request arrives, ay which point it machine checkedG > again. Meanwhile, the rest of the machine is running fine without anyp apparent problems. >a7 > SHOW ERROR revealed 8 CPU errors and 7 memory errors.2 >eE > I shutdown, and power cycled the machine, rebooted and all is fine.n >s" > However, this begs the question: >sE > If there was a hardware problem, how come only one process would beo
 affected ?J >  You'd think that when a process would be re-created that it would start allnJ > clean and not be corrupted as soon as the first transaction came in. How come( > other processes wouldn't be affected ? >t6 > The only scenario I could think of is the following: >nJ > a shareable image is in memory. Something happens and some of the memoryL > containing code gets corrupted, but VMS doesn't notice. I need the RAM forJ > something else, that portion of corrupt memory is send to the page file. Later J > on, that portion of memory is returned to  RAM, possibly another portion of+ > RAM, but it still has the corrupted code.h >eI > Then, whenever BIND tries to access that code, it bombs. (but shoudln'tc thatE > be something like invalid opcode or protection violation instead ofi machine ! > check if the code is corrupt ?)  >iA > I am curious. Since VMS logged memory errors, shouldn't it havey invalidatedpI > the affected memroy and gone back to the actual .EXE fil to refresh theu > installed image ?t  F Did SHOW MEMORY report bad memory? If not then VMS couldn't handle the problem.  L Not sure about a 3100 but a VAX3400 behaved similarly. DEC's explanation wasL that a 3400 does not have ECC memory and is thus expected to fail once every year.aF In your case it may have been mains power, aging memory or perhaps theD system is on its way out. This morning my 4000-60 would not boot. ItL reported an error. Power cycling "fixed" the problem, for the moment. I meanH these systems are at least 5 years old, some of them more than 10 and myH VAXstation 2000 was built in 1987. I'd expect that a TV set built in theL same year would explode when powered up. But Digital's build quality has ledK us to believe that these systems will live for ever (and I do hope my VAXes + will continue to run for quite some time!).P  H When was the last time you opened the system and cleaned its internals ?   hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:50:44 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>! Subject: Re: Machine Check on VAX ' Message-ID: <3E015E35.E0ED9874@Free.fr>n   JF Mezei wrote:o > N > Ahhh, perhaps you can translate the following into plain english ? Any magicN > word in this that would give a hint ?  Also, it seems that the memory errors > show up as cache/bus errors.P > (Again, just curious as to why the rest of the system worked fine, it was justQ > whenever the BIND server processed its first transaction that it would mcheck).  > @ > Could those be just lint accumulating in my microvax's navel ? > Q >  ERROR SEQUENCE 13110.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 0A000004dQ >  DATE/TIME 18-DEC-2002 01:45:07.13                            SYS_TYPE 04010002 ; >  SYSTEM UPTIME: <shamefully below 3 digits> DAYS 04:26:55wM >  SCS NODE: BIKE                                                VAX/VMS V7.2V > ' >  MACHINE CHECK  KA420  CPU FW REV# 5.l > ! >        MCHECK CODE     00000080 K >                                        ERR DURING OPERAND OR P0/P1 PTE RD   N This is enough. As you perfectly understood, it means "Error during operand orN P0 (space) / P1 (space) Page Table Entry Read. The P0 space is the memory areaP of a process where executable code is written (aka impure area), P1 space is theM location in memory of the data handled by this code (aka pure area). The PageRL Table Entry is a pointer to the Page Table for a given process to access itsO memory areas when its needs it, the Page Table is a process-specific area whereeP all pages of memory used by the process are indexed, a Read is the action of theN Swapper process (during paging; the swapper does paging and swapping) to fetchM the address of the page that the process needs to access and Error means thatmO the board which handles physical accesses to the RAM memory board has eaten too 
 much cookies.l  L As I do not think that each of your processes has a private part of a memoryN board reserved for them, I suggest (I learned that when I worked for the ParisP TSC) to forward the call to the Field Service (and the Paris TSC specialist will) forget it because it is not VMS fault :-)v  L Now, if you really want a full crash dump analysis, I may need to go back to school first...n   D. --  3   --------------------------------------------------3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.frd0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928-3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 ---------------------------------------------------c3 Anti-publicit : enlever ".nospam" pour me rpondrer   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:21:32 +0100r6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>9 Subject: Re: MX 4.2 on VMS 7.7-2 w/ TCP/IP Services ECO 3h) Message-ID: <3E00CABC.7040509@vajhoej.dk>d  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  L  > MX 4.2 is the last freeware MX.  I downloaded it and tried to install it.  >H  > VMS 7.2-2, Alpha, TCP/IP Services 5.1 ECO 3.  No matter what options  I pickA  > for installing it, as soon as it starts to link, it dies with:1  >9  > %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set L ...RB  > %VMSINSTAL-I-SYSDIR, This product creates system disk directory  > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[MX.LSV].)  > %MX-I-LINKING, Linking image MX_LSV...n/  > %LINK-W-MULCLUOPT, cluster  multiply definedF  >         in options file  3 HUDSON$DKB100:[SYS0.SYSUPD.MX042]MX_LSV.ALPHA_OPT;3e@  > %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of MX V4.2 has failed.  >I  > (when I had it installing the SMTP option, it died with the same error   > for MX_SMTP).  >C  > What can I do to get MX 4.2 installed and running on my machine?f8  > Am I doomed to use the VMS port of (blech) Majordomo?  > There are a known problem linking MX 4.2 on newer VMS versions* due to a small change in linker behaviour.  + It is easy to fix in the .COM or .OPT used.d  , I can make my changes available if you want.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 18 DEC 2002 17:52:37 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker6 Message-ID: <18DEC02.17523767@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  S In a previous article, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:   I ->But I didn't use the -i option.  I submitted a batch job that contains:l -> a( ->$ set def [.ripper.john-1_6_32vms.run] ->$ john == "$sys$disk:[]john" ->$ john sysuaf.john ->$ exit -> tE ->So far, it's used "4 23:06:00.12" of CPU time and has processed sixe' ->usernames.  Doesn't seem right to me.i  > Then you do end up using incremental (brute force) eventually: From the doc/examples. file:  J  2. Assume you just got a password file, 'passwd.1', and want to crack it.@  The simplest way is to use the default order of cracking modes:           john passwd.1   I  This will try "single crack" mode first, then use a wordlist with rules,OI  and finally go for incremental mode. Read doc/MODES for more informatione  on these modes.  F I'd kill it and try wordlist mode with a larger wordlist (dictionary).   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisona9 --                  karcher.nomorespam@waisman.wisc.edu  y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:51:54 -0800i$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>6 Subject: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list.0 Message-ID: <01C2A6A5.18785870@sulfer.icius.com>  G Sorry this is so OT, but from other OT threads in the past I know there F are several people on this list that will jump for joy about this one:  * http://www.msnbc.com/news/849058.asp?cp1=1  F "WASHINGTON, Dec. 18 - Federal regulators are creating new protectionsB for people plagued by unwanted telemarketing calls, establishing aG national "do-not-call" list that consumers can use to keep their phonesnD from ringing with sales pitches." ... "Telemarketers who call listed8 people could be fined up to $11,000 for each violation."   Hallelujah.P  7 We now return to your regularly scheduled programming.     Shanet   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:52:36 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-: Subject: Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list.' Message-ID: <3E014284.DF78B120@fsi.net>b   Shane Smith wrote: > I > Sorry this is so OT, but from other OT threads in the past I know there H > are several people on this list that will jump for joy about this one: > , > http://www.msnbc.com/news/849058.asp?cp1=1 > H > "WASHINGTON, Dec. 18 - Federal regulators are creating new protectionsD > for people plagued by unwanted telemarketing calls, establishing aI > national "do-not-call" list that consumers can use to keep their phones6F > from ringing with sales pitches." ... "Telemarketers who call listed: > people could be fined up to $11,000 for each violation." > 
 > Hallelujah.s  A I once worked a the home of the Direct Marketing Assoc. After thesE initial "free speech" bluster (so many business people are cry-babies D when they face losing what they view as free rein or carte blanche -F it's "their" market, after all), I think they'll welcome it ultimately> since in the end the efforts of telemarketers will become moreC productive if they don't have to waste time cold-calling people whonD probably don't want the call anyway. They'll be able to focus on theF "victims" most likely to respond positively to a telemarketing effort.   My $0.02 ...   -- p David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/z   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:51:29 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list., Message-ID: <3E015051.5000507@tsoft-inc.com>   Shane Smith wrote:  I > Sorry this is so OT, but from other OT threads in the past I know theredH > are several people on this list that will jump for joy about this one: > , > http://www.msnbc.com/news/849058.asp?cp1=1 > H > "WASHINGTON, Dec. 18 - Federal regulators are creating new protectionsD > for people plagued by unwanted telemarketing calls, establishing aI > national "do-not-call" list that consumers can use to keep their phones F > from ringing with sales pitches." ... "Telemarketers who call listed: > people could be fined up to $11,000 for each violation." > 
 > Hallelujah.a    @ Don't be too happy yet.  What we really need it for is spammers.  N There is already such a program (telemarketers, not spammers) in place in PA.  Works Ok, but not completely.e   Dave   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 20:55:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eH Subject: Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list. (not totally)3 Message-ID: <WsQfns+5GCYC@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  W In article <01C2A6A5.18785870@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: I > Sorry this is so OT, but from other OT threads in the past I know therelH > are several people on this list that will jump for joy about this one: > , > http://www.msnbc.com/news/849058.asp?cp1=1 > H > "WASHINGTON, Dec. 18 - Federal regulators are creating new protectionsD > for people plagued by unwanted telemarketing calls, establishing aI > national "do-not-call" list that consumers can use to keep their phonessF > from ringing with sales pitches." ... "Telemarketers who call listed: > people could be fined up to $11,000 for each violation."  = >    "Officials said the agency is taking bids from companiesm+ >     interesting in creating the registry. B >     Once the list is operating, telemarketers will have to checkE >     the registry every three months to find out who doesnat want tonI >     be called, the officials said. Telemarketers who call listed peoplee7 >     could be fined up to $11,000 for each violation. e >      >     The registry willi >     likely cost about $16t# >     million in its first year andt >     would be paid for with >     fees collected from  >     telemarketers, officials >     said.s  D I hope at those prices they will get a system that will keep workingC so no telemarketer can claim they tried to check the list but got ao "blue screen of death".s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:16:21 -0800a$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>? Subject: OT: Chocolate, was RE: announcing Customer First Timest0 Message-ID: <01C2A686.EA462810@sulfer.icius.com>  A Ideally 70% cocoa solids or higher, but I'll take what I can get.-% Preferred make is Valrhona or El Bay.1  @ That's a recommendation, if anyone's interested. Trust me, I'm a chocoholic.C   ShaneH   -----Original Message-----* From: -Andy- [mailto:acs@fcgnet.works.net]( Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 2:55 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr, Subject: RE: announcing Customer First Times    2 Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> enlightened us with8 news:01C2A5CE.4A9F38F0@sulfer.icius.com on 17 Dec 2002:   5 >> Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> enlightened us with:; >> news:01C2A5BF.B5AD1130@sulfer.icius.com on 17 Dec 2002:   >> 3 >>  @ >>> It's amazing how much less compact a language Weasel is than
 >>> English. t >>> 	 >>> Shaneh >>  A >> Now THAT deserves a t-shirt/bumper sticker... or a place in a r >> 'quotes' file.o  	 >> -Andy-b  : > Just remember my royalties. A bar of chocolate for small@ > quantities, if you start making serious bucks, we renegotiate.  ? Do you have a preference for the type of chocolate ? Something 0) regional ? Something mass produced ? :-).    -Andy- -- .% %LNG-W-WEASEL  Weasel words detected.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:16:47 -0400p0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>C Subject: Re: OT: Chocolate, was RE: announcing Customer First Times / Message-ID: <3E00C999.CC5F2FD9@vl.videotron.ca>i   Shane Smith wrote: > C > Ideally 70% cocoa solids or higher, but I'll take what I can get.o' > Preferred make is Valrhona or El Bay.s  ( How dare you steal *my* valrohna ???????  L Just a caution about those who prefer to be paid in chocolate:  Avoid UPS atN all costs if it involves crossing a border. I once had to pay $50 to receive aK gift (nice box of chocolates) sent from the USA to Canada. And since by thetK time I got the invoice for this (customs brokerage fees) the chocolates hadoN long been digested, there was no way for me to return the good to avoid paying1 the highway robbers^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcustoms brokers.h   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 12:05:11 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212181205.2a8321e5@posting.google.com>c   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E0050D0.40008@nospamn.sun.com>...w > ; > Hardly, TPC-C has no reporting load, is based on 5 simplet@ > to moderate complexity transaction types which you can sheduleA > as you wish. It is also a terrible predictor of the performancek@ > of real OLTP applications most of which have many more queries< > and which also generally have some sort of reporting load. > : > It is for example no use as a predictor of SAP or Oracle6 > applications performance each of which has their own5 > benchmark, both OLTP neither predictable from TPC-Ct
 > results. > @ > Because of its simplicity it is open to optimisations that may > have no use outside TPC-C. > @ > This has been recognised for a long time, there was a proposalE > ironically crafted by IBM to create a new high end TPC complex OLTPa: > benchmark rectified the issues associated with TPC-C, it< > failed to get the necessary majority of TPC members votes,! > though no one voted against it.h >   @ I can tell you a simple fact ... a processor that gives superior9 fp and int spec results and has the best compilers in thee; business (alpha) will beat the pants of any other processorY3 anyday anytime anyplace ... common sense Andrew ...y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:10:28 -0500o* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?2 Message-ID: <YNWdnSaXU5dxIWKgXTWcpg@metrocast.net>  K "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>l9 wrote in message news:3DFF5F87.5040809@nospamn.sun.com...s   ...:  = > Can you provide a reasoned argument that explains why doing A > TPC-C for the F15K would be usefull for people trying to assess:4 > the relative performance of Sun vs other servers ?  K Of course:  because it would provide a reasonably apples-to-apples point ofuL comparison with all the *non*-clustered results from similar large platformsE (32-processor POWER4, Itanic2, P4/Xeon, and Alpha boxes, 64-processorM PA-RISC boxes, etc.).R   ...s  < > Interesting, Gartner and Meta are the first people to tell7 > you that scaling out, shared nothing clusters are nots* > suitable platforms to host large DBMS's. >i9 > Ironic, the reason why Sun has dropped TPC-C is becauser? > the shared nothing approach and the cluster in a box approachh@ > pioneered by Compaq has distorted the TPC-C results to a point$ > where the results have no meaning.  K Ridiculous.  The *clustered* results have little or no meaning, but they're L easily separable from the non-clustered results - which are still subject to9 configuration black art but have at least *some* meaning.t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 21:41:39 -0500 * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?2 Message-ID: <1aqcnQqYcqlFrJyjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message-7 news:d7791aa1.0212181205.2a8321e5@posting.google.com...n   ...i  B > I can tell you a simple fact ... a processor that gives superior; > fp and int spec results and has the best compilers in thet= > business (alpha) will beat the pants of any other processoro5 > anyday anytime anyplace ... common sense Andrew ...r  F Leaving aside the oxymoronic nature of the phrase 'common sense', yourK 'simple fact' above is simply wrong, as can be seen by the inability of theoL EV68 to come close to Itanic2 in 4-processor TPC-C performance (which may beJ due to differences in cache which affect TPC-C but not SPECint; if so, EV78 will fix that, but it doesn't change the reality today).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:05:09 -0800w$ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>6 Subject: RE: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?0 Message-ID: <01C2A6C8.889F81A0@sulfer.icius.com>  C I found more opportunity for amusement in the slightly larger quote B "common sense Andrew", bearing in mind which Andrew... <Evil Grin>  ? Still, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Benchmarks are E statistics, you can find some to say whatever you want to say, and ifuH that proves difficult you can always combine some in creative ways to do@ it. Doesn't matter a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys if the chip's? outclassed in the court of public opinion, which Itanic is. Thee% opposition will win. Dooo do-de do...e  E Don't get me wrong, I'm not in love with the Hammer like Bill is withuD the Itanium, I'd rather be Alpha-ing if it were an option. There are@ some brief figures for the Hammer in comparison to the Athlon if anyone's interested on:o* http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6774.   F It mentions efficiency improvements in the low 20s for a few differentH application types, ie 20%ish faster at similar clock speeds. I think theF meat is in an article on c't linked from there, but it's in German. My= German is just about good enough to say I don't speak German.a   Shanen   -----Original Message-----/ From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]s* Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 6:42 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?      5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagel7 news:d7791aa1.0212181205.2a8321e5@posting.google.com...n   ..  B > I can tell you a simple fact ... a processor that gives superior; > fp and int spec results and has the best compilers in the = > business (alpha) will beat the pants of any other processoro5 > anyday anytime anyplace ... common sense Andrew ...   F Leaving aside the oxymoronic nature of the phrase 'common sense', yourG 'simple fact' above is simply wrong, as can be seen by the inability of  theeE EV68 to come close to Itanic2 in 4-processor TPC-C performance (whicht may beF due to differences in cache which affect TPC-C but not SPECint; if so, EV7b8 will fix that, but it doesn't change the reality today).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 11:32:53 -0800' From: taupin974@hotmail.com (taupin974)e, Subject: Re: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard= Message-ID: <f948cf20.0212181132.769a415e@posting.google.com>t  @ but the id of the pasteboard is 0 !! It's not created i think !!6 so, how do you create a pasteboard and parse it well ?  c Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in message news:<3DFE51C6.86BE4C4E@Free.fr>...eG > When you create a pasteboard, operation that you need to perform only@C > once, you get back from the call as a return argument an internal>G > identifier, which is actually the pasteboard id. Then you need to useaJ > this pasteboard id to perform all further operations: paste unpaste etc. > D > You cannot do any operation to a given pasteboard that you did not > create by yourself first., > * > (this brings me 15 years in the past...) >  > D. >  > taupin974 wrote: > > I > > I've a problem with this function : smg$create_pasteboard and i beginh
 > > with smg.aF > > When i examine the return value of the pasteboard creation, i seem* > > that the a pasteboard already exist !!I > > How can i get the id of the existing pasteboard or force the creation  > > a the pasteboard !!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:32:33 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>, Subject: RE: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard0 Message-ID: <01C2A689.44FF7D40@sulfer.icius.com>  ? Can you post the code snippet you're using please? That'll maket troubleshooting it easier.   Shanei   -----Original Message-----: From: taupin974@hotmail.com [mailto:taupin974@hotmail.com]+ Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 11:33 AMn To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma, Subject: Re: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard    @ but the id of the pasteboard is 0 !! It's not created i think !!6 so, how do you create a pasteboard and parse it well ?  ? Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote in messaged# news:<3DFE51C6.86BE4C4E@Free.fr>...iG > When you create a pasteboard, operation that you need to perform only C > once, you get back from the call as a return argument an internal G > identifier, which is actually the pasteboard id. Then you need to use J > this pasteboard id to perform all further operations: paste unpaste etc. > D > You cannot do any operation to a given pasteboard that you did not > create by yourself first.a > * > (this brings me 15 years in the past...) >  > D. >  > taupin974 wrote: > > I > > I've a problem with this function : smg$create_pasteboard and i begind
 > > with smg.nF > > When i examine the return value of the pasteboard creation, i seem* > > that the a pasteboard already exist !!I > > How can i get the id of the existing pasteboard or force the creationt > > a the pasteboard !!M   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 13:08:24 -0800- From: contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) " Subject: Re: Procedure question...= Message-ID: <ddf392ea.0212181308.2b799bab@posting.google.com>i   Thank you , Shane. Its exactly what I need.t  \ Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> wrote in message news:<01C2A5C2.6FF438F0@sulfer.icius.com>...A > Probably the simplest is to use the VT100 escape sequences. UseyG > ESC+"[2J" to clear the screen, and ESC+"[r;cH" to position the cursornF > replacing the "r" with the row number from the top, and "c" with theI > column number counting from the left. For example, ESC+"[1;5H" puts the J > cursor on the top line, five columns in. If the output's consistent, youB > will only need the cursor positioning in the loop. I suggest youJ > remember to print a few blank characters at the end of the number, so ifA > something resets it the old digits to the right will be clearedw > automatically. > J > If necessary I can provide an example offline, that gives a running viewE > of a process' quotas. Let me know. It's got inline NPC's (I know, IaI > know, bad practice - it's just a quick Noddy) so it'd be bad netiquetter
 > to post it.o >  > Shaned >  > -----Original Message-----> > From: contracer11@uol.com.br [mailto:contracer11@uol.com.br]+ > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 11:44 AMa > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp  > Subject: Procedure question... >  > E > I need create a procedure to show magtape operations counter in the  > VT400. > terminal. Like this: >  > . >                 MagTape Operations:  8324562 >  > C > This informations it must stay freeze in the screen (only numbersn > increasing). > A > If I issue a command (like sh dev d, for example), the "MagTapem
 > Operations"o > " > must stay freeze in the screen.  > ! > How can I make this using DCL ?g >  > Thanks in advance...   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Dec 2002 16:28:02 -0800( From: baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut)/ Subject: Re: SIMH 2.10-1 VAX binaries for Win32e< Message-ID: <c5cf6e8.0212181628.6457ba9c@posting.google.com>  8 If you need documentation, get the SIMH source code from   http://simh.trailing-edge.com/  + and look through it for readme's and *.txt.n  1 To test if winpcap is running OK get WinDump fromt   http://windump.polito.it/   D and run "WinDump -D".  It should print the name of any network cards you have similar to this:b  2 1.\Device\NPF_El90x1 (3Com 3C90x Ethernet Adapter)  F If you don't see that you might need to replace the Packet.dll that isB in my ZIP file.  Look for replacements at the bottom of this page:  $ http://winpcap.polito.it/contact.htm  E Once you have that working you should use name from "WinDump -D" in a.B SIMH "attach" command to tell SIMH to map your network card to theC virtual DELQA.  Given the name from the previous example the attachr command would be:o   ATTACH XQ \Device\NPF_El90x1  B It is not well documented but the author of SIMH gave up trying toF shove a VT-100 emulator in the Windows binary and put a command to use+ telnet to gain control of the console.  Useh   set telnet <port>U  B After that command, telnet into the emulator console and then typeD "boot cpu" from the non-telnet session and the system will boot with' console output going to the telnet one.u  5 SIMH virtual supports both DEQNA and DELQA emulation.h  # The 0readme_ethernet.txt file says:   F << THE XQ/SIM_ETHER modules have been successfully tested on a WindowsD 2000 host, emulating an OpenVMS 7.2 VAX system with DECNET Phase IV, MultiNet 4.4a, and LAT 5.3.n   Regression test criteria: C  1. VAX shows device correctly                             (passed)eC  2. VMS boots successfully with new device emulation       (passed)eC  3. VMS initializes device correctly                       (passed)oC  4. DECNET loads successfully                              (passed) C  5. DECNET line stays up                                   (passed)eC  6. SET HOST x.y:: works from SIMH to real DECNET machine  (passed).C  7. SET HOST x.y:: works from real DECNET machine to SIMH  (passed)fC  8. DECNET copy works from SIMH to real DECNET machine     (passed)-C  9. DECNET copy works from real DECNET machine to SIMH     (passed)iC 10. MultiNet TCP/IP loads successfully                     (passed) C 11. Multinet TCP/IP initializes device successfully        (passed)f3 12. SET HOST/TELNET x.y.z.w works from SIMH to real<     VAX IP machine  (passed): 13. SET HOST/TELNET x.y.z.w works from real VAX IP machine     to SIMH  (passed) C 14. FTP GET from a real VAX IP machine                     (passed)sC 15. LAT loads sucessfully                                  (passed)sC 16. SET HOST/LAT <nodename> works from SIMH to real VAX LAT machineo (passed)C 17. SET HOST/LAT <nodename> works from real VAX LAT machine to SIMHl (passed)  < I have tested the following, and they do NOT work correctly:  1. VMS NI Clustering (LAVC)5  2. Remote VAX booting (>>>B XQA0) into a VMScluster;wE     the remote boot works, but VMS BUGCHECKs when joining the cluster  >>    l baby_p_nut@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in message news:<c5cf6e8.0212171950.7e59f896@posting.google.com>...4 > http://filbert.tubas.net/~kstailey/simh/index.html >  > You will also need > 9 > http://winpcap.polito.it/install/bin/WinPcap_3_0_a4.exee >  > from d > . > http://winpcap.polito.it/install/default.htm > 2 > since the packet capture drives are not bundled. > 9 > If you try it let me know if this works for you or not.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 06:36:10 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>= Subject: SMG$ cookbook (was: Prob with smg$create_pasteboard)a' Message-ID: <3E015ACA.54356EDC@Free.fr>-  O I can write a "Using RTL SMG$ routines in VAX-11/FORTRAN-77" training course iff you pay for it, David :-),   D. T   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > > Is there some kind of an SMG "cookbook" out there somewhere? > A > I realize it's way late and many bux short, but what the hey...-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:59:36 GMT-6 From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb@deliverance.lythe.org.uk>- Subject: Re: tcp/ip services sys$qio problems : Message-ID: <slrnb02o28.187n.ejb@deliverance.lythe.org.uk>  L In article <6tML9.63457$TA6.796803@news.chello.at>, Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:F > As the name of the source file let me believe that you are trying toK > connect to a privileged port (<1024), you need OPER privilege to do this.nB > Maybe a LOG_IO priv is also sufficient but I doubt. Probably theG > SYSPRV and/or BYPASS will also work, but they are IMHO an overkill...n  F I'm attempting to run it from the SYSTEM account, so this shouldn't be
 the problem..u  
 $ sh proc/pris .. Process privileges:l ..(  LOG_IO               may do logical i/o ..4  OPER                 may perform operator functions ..  F Apart from that I really can't think what it'd be.. unless I'm missing something (else) stupid.   Regards, Edward.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:46:05 -0500l2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: TECSys Consoleworks on VMS - first impressions.L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1712022146050001@user-2ive2eu.dialup.mindspring.com>  G A while back I was here grumbling about the windows-hosted ConsoleworkstJ that Compaq packaged with the previous GS-series alphaservers.  Kerry MainI kindly pointed out that Consoleworks also runs on VMS.  So I went over tos; http://www.tditx.com/ and filled out the demo request form.   I TECsys sent us a demo kit, and I've been trying it out for a week or so. n So far, it looks very good.e  @ I installed the Consoleworks server on an available DEC 3000-600B alphaserver running VMS 7.3 and TCPIP services.  TECSys provides a VMSINSTAL kit.  D A VMS command file is used to create an instance of the consoleworksI server, listening to the http protocol on a TCP/IP port.  An SSL layer is-( available, but I have not set it up yet.  H A variety of communications paths are supported between Consoleworks andJ the physical console ports it manages.  I have only used the LAT protocol,J via already-configured terminal servers connnected to various alpha system console ports.  H The next step, defining consoles within Consoleworks, seems to require aG web browser.  This is my only dislike of the product so far.  I did not H take the time to configure a web browser on VMS.  Instead I connected toI the Consoleworks server from a PC that already had a browser configured.  H This mickey-clicky interface is pretty good, and I was able to configure9 console connections to named LAT services fairly quickly.t  J One service had a LAT configuration problem, and the connection failed.  IJ couldn't find enough (any) error status information within Consoleworks toG diagnose the problem.  I went back to VMS and used SET HOST/LAT and thetD standard LAT tools to figure out the trouble.  Once my alphaserver'sE outgoing LAT was correct, I went back to Consoleworks and defined thee console with no more problems.  G My biggest complaint with mickey-clicky user interfaces, including thiseB one, is that they aren't scriptable.  If I had to define dozens ofI consoles (and someone will have to do it if we deploy this product in our J labs), it would be a tedious, time-consuming, and error-prone process withH this interface.  A "copy console" feature is provided to reduce the workI of configuring multiple similar consoles, but the copying still has to beoG done by mickey-clicky.  I hope there is a command-line interface to theu5 configuration tool hiding somewhere I haven't looked.i  J After defining consoles within Consoleworks, I had two options.  One is toI use the web interface to create connections to the consoles.  Since I wase@ browsing on the PC, this forced the use of a terminal emulator. J Consoleworks includes a moderately awful Java-based VT100 emulator.  ThereH seems to be an option to teach Consoleworks to use an external emulator,G but I have not taken the time to configure it.  I don't have a PC-basedo terminal emulator I like.V  G Instead, I went back to VMS and used the Consoleworks CLI to connect toaF the consoles.  This takes 3 commands - tell consoleworks what host andD TCPIP port to use, give it login info, and connect to the console ofD interest.  Now the VMS terminal is connected to the remote console.  Voila!  H I've been using Consoleworks to talk to several ES45, DS25, and DEC 3000, systems.  No communications problems so far.    = Things I like about this solution (compared to SET HOST/LAT):   J 1.  Consoleworks allows multiple connections to a console simultaneously. 9 Read-only, read-write, and exclusive modes are supported.b  F The shared access eliminates the time-wasting job of tracking down theG person who forgot to disconnect from the LAT service.  (When this turns A out to be one of the dozens of DECterms buried on my screen, it'sa
 embarassing.)   D 2. It logs the console sessions to log files on the VMS ConsoleworksH server.  The logs have timestamps.  Much easier than configuring logging% via SET HOST or the DECterm emulator..  J 3. Except for the console definition step, I don't need a web browser.  IfF I had a browser configured on a convenient VMS system, I wouldn't need/ Windows or any other inferior operating system.o   4. So far, it just works.r    $ Things that could be improved, IMHO:  3 1. A CLI interface is needed for defining consoles.r  J 2. The current log file is opened for exclusive access by the consoleworksF server.  The web interface gives access to the log file, but I haven't> found a way from the CLI.  It should be a simple task to teach1 consoleworks about shared access to the log file..  H 3. Consoleworks has its own user authentication system.  Since I tend toB have a UAF nicely configured on VMS systems, I wish I could directI consoleworks to authenticate against VMS, with resource IDs available for G fine-tuning.  For me, a separate user database is just extra work.  But G adding this feature would be extra, platform-specific work for TECsys. n; Maybe they will do it if they see enough customer interest.r    H I don't do purchasing, so I don't know how much the product would cost. - Someone else will decide if we can afford it.   F Consoleworks has a bunch of extra features I'm not interested in, likeB watching the console output for "events", with various options forF notifying or responding.  Maybe someday I would want this, but for now6 Consoleworks is happy to let me ignore all the extras.     -- Robertl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:03:53 GMTf- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>e$ Subject: Re: VAX-VMS and Packetradio= Message-ID: <ZqcM9.33105$VA5.3963487@news1.news.adelphia.net>r   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  < > In article , wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) writes: > ? >> In article <3dff8083$0$30074$fb624cd1@news1.zeelandnet.nl>, e >> "hb1nos"  writes: >>> E >>> Is there someone who has experince with VAX-VMS and Packetradio ?f > + >> I have run a PACCOM Tnc-2 on a MicroVAX.l >> vA >>> I would like to use me VAX-3100/90 as a packetradio station,   >>> working with a TNC21S..  >> yF >> I rigged up some quick and dirty DCL scripts with the Packet Modem F >> in single session mode that allowed remote users to send me e-mail,D >> and a few other things, including playing the classic "Adventure" >> game. >> TB >> I used a DHU-11 for the serial port, as using the Packet Modem  >> needs full modem  control.c > F > I have never seen a TNC-2 that properly impolemented modem signals. F > Most do little more than raise DCD on connect and they only do that < > so you can have a buzzer wired up to it as a connect alarm  B As I recall, the DSR and DCD are now working on the PacComm model.  F >> Be aware that I have one model of Packet Modem that has the serial E >> line signals wired wrong internally.  It is sending the DSR signal. >> on the RTS line.e >>  F >> I also have a program that puts the Packet Modem in "RAW" mode, and0  >> it displays a formatted dump of the packets. > G > I believe the correct name for that is KISS mode and there is quite a E >  bit of software that makes very good use of it.  Particularly for A > doing TCPIP.  F That is what I meant, KISS mode.  The Packet modem sends the raw data  frames to the computer.  >  [snip] >> I > F > KISS mode.  As I said, it was originally developed by the TCPIP guysD >  but I think other packages have been made to work with it.  It's F > great for writing a statistical monitoring package if you wanted to A > accurately track how much traffic you had on a channel locally.M   >> >E >> The other difficulty with accessing OpenVMS programs from a Packet D >> Modem is that the Packet Modem is 1/2 duplex, and sends a line atG >> a time. So programs that wait for and expect only a single key pressg  >> do not work well with it.  > D > Not necessarily.  There is another mode, called transparent mode, ) > that will also send packets on timeout.-  B I do not recall seeing that mode in the PacComm TNC documentation.  D  > Of course, packet has all but died around here and I don't bother
 > anymore.  C At my former location, for various reasons, there ended up with no   packet stations in my range.  I I have heard that in my new location, that Packet Radio is still active,  = and next week I will try to see if I can link into a network.i   > C > Probably the easiest way to get a VMS machine on packet would be oF > using TCPIP.  A simple machine between the VAX and the packet modem F > could do all of the networking part, running KA9Q's program which I D > am sure is still available, maybe even still being developed.  Of F > course, some hams around here got very upset when I put up my first G > AMPR TCPIP net. Something about it not doing morse code.  (I had whataG >  was, I believe, the first live AMPRNET <-> INTERNET interconnect in oF > the world even though I was repeatedly told that it was a) illegal, E > b) technically impossible and c) nobody wanted INTERNET from their   > homes anyway.)  D I was not aware that there was a version of KA9Q for OpenVMS, but a @ quick search of http://www.google.com shows several links to it.  + I will definitely look into this some more.    -John- wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:42:42 -0500:0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VM web ring & spamc/ Message-ID: <3DFFD292.44259609@vl.videotron.ca>T   Michiel Erens wrote:   A > The vms web ring hub is indexed by Google (search in Google fortD > Mezei and OpenVMS). So any search spider could find your page this > way.    H Wow, it didn't take time for the spammers to find my email address then.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:24:22 +0100t' From: "Ton den Hartog" <tonh@xs4all.nl> @ Subject: Where can I meet Dutch people and companies using VMS ?6 Message-ID: <3dffc01f$0$88861$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>   Hi,   J are there any people from the Netherlands in this group ? I am looking for1 contact with companies or people that use OpenVMS,  " Ton den Hartog, ICT Automatisering       ---h" Computer museum tonh: www.tonh.net - GUI version of GGGallery !   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:21:36 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>/ Subject: Re: Winkler to be new marketing chief.a) Message-ID: <3E00CAC0.2040105@vajhoej.dk>y   JF Mezei wrote:   I  >        However, Dell's model doesn't work so well for a multinational F firm'  > hoping to sell all around the world.   	 Why not ?p  ' Dell is becoming big in Europe as well.a  5 I am not quite sure they have passed Compaq over herec yet, but it will happend !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:44:14 -0800c& From: faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au>E Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]M8 Message-ID: <auj10vsr5q5rh8m770ll2l9jb3se5ktpq2@4ax.com>  A  "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> ,  emitted theset
 fragments:  ' >- my parents first vcr lasted 15 yearsm >- my first vcr lasted 8 >- this last one lasted 1 year   15 year here and going strong. It is a Sharp.# Cant beat the Japanese for quality.t  & Just avoid the cheap american rubbish.    8 -------------------------------------------------------- Cthulhu Fthagn !  8 --------------------------------------------------------	 Come see,$ real flowers of this pain-filled world.   (from Basho)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.699 ************************s/soho/z   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:51:29 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Re: OT: /Totally/ OT: National "don't call" list., Message-ID: <3E015051.5000507@tsoft-inc.com>   Shane Smith wrote:  I > Sorry this is so OT,@Ъ    AЪ    BЪ    CЪ    DЪ    EЪ    FЪ    GЪ    HЪ    IЪ    JЪ    KЪ    LЪ    MЪ    NЪ    OЪ    PЪ    QЪ    RЪ    SЪ    TЪ    UЪ    VЪ    WЪ    XЪ    YЪ    ZЪ    [Ъ    \Ъ    ]Ъ    ^Ъ    _Ъ    `Ъ    aЪ    bЪ    cЪ    dЪ    eЪ    fЪ    gЪ    hЪ    iЪ    jЪ    kЪ    lЪ    mЪ    nЪ    oЪ    pЪ    qЪ    rЪ    sЪ    tЪ    uЪ    vЪ    wЪ    xЪ    yЪ    zЪ    {Ъ    |Ъ    }Ъ    ~Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ     Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    	Ъ    
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Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ     Ъ    !Ъ    "Ъ    #Ъ    $Ъ    %Ъ    &Ъ    'Ъ    (Ъ    )Ъ    *Ъ    +Ъ    ,Ъ    -Ъ    .Ъ    /Ъ    0Ъ    1Ъ    2Ъ    3Ъ    4Ъ    5Ъ    6Ъ    7Ъ    8Ъ    9Ъ    :Ъ    ;Ъ    <Ъ    =Ъ    >Ъ    ?Ъ    @Ъ    AЪ    BЪ    CЪ    DЪ    EЪ    FЪ    GЪ    HЪ    IЪ    JЪ    KЪ    LЪ    MЪ    NЪ    OЪ    PЪ    QЪ    RЪ    SЪ    TЪ    UЪ    VЪ    WЪ    XЪ    YЪ    ZЪ    [Ъ    \Ъ    ]Ъ    ^Ъ    _Ъ    `Ъ    aЪ    bЪ    cЪ    dЪ    eЪ    fЪ    gЪ    hЪ    iЪ    jЪ    kЪ    lЪ    mЪ    nЪ    oЪ    pЪ    qЪ    rЪ    sЪ    tЪ    uЪ    vЪ    wЪ    xЪ    yЪ    zЪ    {Ъ    |Ъ    }Ъ    ~Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    