1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 20 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 702       Contents: backup question % bell volume on AlphaServer 800 5/500? ) Re: bell volume on AlphaServer 800 5/500? 2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha2 RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha Re: DCPS Scale Page ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership ! RE: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership 4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)4 Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)3 Re: HP Advocacy "me too"'s - Hammer port, marketing ( Re: initialize/erase does no useful work( Re: initialize/erase does no useful work( Re: initialize/erase does no useful work2 Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???6 Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???6 Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???6 Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???6 Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???6 Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???6 Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet??? Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things  Re: just a couple of things - looking for CD-RW or DVD-RW capability on VMS 1 Re: looking for CD-RW or DVD-RW capability on VMS 0 Loss of Enet Performance on DS10 -> DS25 UpgradeC Machine checks not always hardware failures, was: Re: Machine Check G Re: Machine checks not always hardware failures, was: Re: Machine Check G Re: Machine checks not always hardware failures, was: Re: Machine Check % MIME extension recognition under CSWS # Re: Need to configure Samba for VMS - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  Reminder: openvms-managers list # RE: Reminder: openvms-managers list # Re: Reminder: openvms-managers list  Re: VM web ring & spam< Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]< RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:39:27 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: backup question9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEJAGEAA.tom@kednos.com>   5 I like to keep a current backup copy online of all my < disks, since I have a large spare drive using the following:   $ type copyback.com  $ set verifyF $ define/user back_disk node$dka300:['P1'.'P2'.]/translation=concealedK $ backup/verify/record  disk$'P2':[*...] back_disk:[*...]/by_owner=original   B Now this doesn't copy the files at the [000000] level so I suppose the command should be   / $ backup/verify/record  disk$'P2':[000000...] - ( 	back_disk:[000000...]/by_owner=original  5 where P1 and P2 are node and disk name, respectively.    Is this correct? --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 08:02:56 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: bell volume on AlphaServer 800 5/500?3 Message-ID: <oRGR1iNOkb6L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   F    Two AplhaServer 800 5/500, one has a V55 console and one has a V500    console.   E    The console bell (which seems to be coming out of the pedestal) is F    much too loud for our setting.  Is there a volume control somewhere:    (that will stay set across power cycles, reboots, ...)?        ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 19:57:29 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>2 Subject: Re: bell volume on AlphaServer 800 5/500?5 Message-ID: <atvp7d$3abgt$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   J "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> schreef in bericht- news:oRGR1iNOkb6L@eisner.encompasserve.org...  > H >    Two AplhaServer 800 5/500, one has a V55 console and one has a V500
 >    console.  > G >    The console bell (which seems to be coming out of the pedestal) is H >    much too loud for our setting.  Is there a volume control somewhere< >    (that will stay set across power cycles, reboots, ...)? > 5 Primitive answer perhaps, but you could cut the wire. A Less primitive: put a peice of cardboard in front of the speaker. ; Once VMS and Motif runs you have access to the bell volume.    Hans   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:10:24 +0100 $ From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <atuqam$puc$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  * "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote > : > I wish you had a sun sparky box to run also so you could' > prove Andrew the idiot that he is ...   4 Maybe there is somebody out there with a SUN running SETI ?; We do not have any, and as long as it is my saying, we will  never have. 8 Some of our customers are running SUNs as well, and they3 are not impressed by what they get in comparison to 	 an Alpha.  Peter    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:51:14 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 8 Message-ID: <20021220085114.51505ab7.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:06:09 -0800 "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote:   > 7 > "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> wrote in message ; > news:rrqL9.371471$%m4.119265@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... G > > I just upgraded one of my PCs running W2K to a 2.4GHz Athlon. I run H > > Seti@Home on it. It took 11 hours to get to the 80% completed point. > 0 > The 11 hours above is a little bit surprising: > F > I'm running what's called 1900+ Athlon (that's 1.6GHz clock I think) > (W2K for the OS as well)  F Smells to me like W2K might keep the cache filled with stuff unrelated> to the program so that memory accesses are forced to go to RAMH more often.  You can easily slow down 10x when that happens on a system.  J Another likely culprit - the screen saver.  If he has a fancy screen saverF running it can both suck up CPU cycles and keep the cache busy.  NeverA assume that screen savers are "light" applications!  At one point D I had xlock running on a RedHat server so that it cycled through the@ various screen savers.  BIG MISTAKE.  Using top on a serial lineI I saw some of those modes starve the server daemons for cycles.  A little H experimentation showed that "worms" was pretty light and I use that now.C Hard to do that measurement on XP but for starters just try turning  off the screen saver entirely.    A For what it's worth, moving our mostly integer math programs from J a 466 Mhz DS10(Redhat 6.2) to an Athlon 2200 (Redhat 7.3) resulted in a 2X
 speed up.   & > And what else may be running on your
 > system too?    Especially, which screen saver.      Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:18:16 GMT * From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com>; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha ? Message-ID: <shIM9.407932$%m4.126473@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message2 news:20021220085114.51505ab7.mathog@caltech.edu...  L > Another likely culprit - the screen saver.  If he has a fancy screen saverH > running it can both suck up CPU cycles and keep the cache busy.  NeverC > assume that screen savers are "light" applications!  At one point F > I had xlock running on a RedHat server so that it cycled through theB > various screen savers.  BIG MISTAKE.  Using top on a serial lineK > I saw some of those modes starve the server daemons for cycles.  A little J > experimentation showed that "worms" was pretty light and I use that now.E > Hard to do that measurement on XP but for starters just try turning   > off the screen saver entirely.  L When you're running SETI the screen saver *is* the SETI program (at least onK Windoze). There are no other screen savers. Hoever, in the absence of SETI, = I always use "Blank Screen" for exactly the reasons you cite.    ML   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:24:45 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>; Subject: RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <01C2A809.A76EE570@sulfer.icius.com>  C OK, let's have some fun with that. The Alpha gets through a unit in E roughly 8 hours at 500mhz, so if Intel's pushing of Mhz as a reliable G indicator of speed were accurate, that would be 2 hours if it scaled to G the same clock speed as the P4. Cool. I haven't looked at the SETI@Home D sources, anyone know how many subsystems are used other than CPU and memory?    Shane    -----Original Message-----) From: Peter Flunger [mailto:p-i-b@gmx.at] + Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 11:04 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; Subject: Re: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha       $ "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@gmx.at> wroteB > Inspired by this thread i decided to download an run SETI @ home > for VMS today.7 > I have it running on 3 different Systems @ the moment G > ( not top of the line but two of them are EV 6, releas 2.3 @ 500Mhz ) ! > I'll post the results tomorrow,  > % OK, here are the first results i have ) one DS20E with 2x 500MHz EV6 pass 2.5 CPU  3 work units so far: 8h10m, 8h8m and 8h20m ( one DS20 with 2x 500MHz EV6 pass 2.3 CPU 7h57m, 7h58m, 7h49m   , My Pentium4 2GHz ( running XP ) needs approx 6h40 for one workunit. Peter    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:08:48 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG; Subject: RE: Compaq's phenomonal stupidity in killing Alpha 0 Message-ID: <00A18BB1.6722FD37@SendSpamHere.ORG>  W In article <01C2A809.A76EE570@sulfer.icius.com>, Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> writes: D >OK, let's have some fun with that. The Alpha gets through a unit inF >roughly 8 hours at 500mhz, so if Intel's pushing of Mhz as a reliableH >indicator of speed were accurate, that would be 2 hours if it scaled toH >the same clock speed as the P4. Cool. I haven't looked at the SETI@HomeE >sources, anyone know how many subsystems are used other than CPU and  >memory?  G I would tend to think it's primarily CPU.  The work units are data that F is fourier transformed from time to freq. making it far easier to spot< ET's signal in the wash of interstellar background noises.     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:40:57 -0500 * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> Subject: Re: DCPS Scale Page5 Message-ID: <201220021140579091%paul.anderson@hp.com>   8 In article <3E020C32.525A7C3C@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  M > There could also be DCPS options to change the default font and font sizes. I > For instance, instead of 10 point courier, you could ask for 9.75 point M > courier.  (10/82*80). You might also be able to just change font to another K > monotyped font such as Monaco, which *may* have slightly tighter spacing, 0 > allowing you to print 82 characters on a line.  G There are no DCPS options for this.  You have to roll your own solution ) along the lines of the above suggestions.   C Solution #1 would be the substitution of another monospaced font by A creating a customized LPS$$printer_INITPSDEVICE PostScript device ? control module.  This probably will not give you 82 characters.   E Solution #2 would be the adjustment of character spacing and/or width C with escape sequences in an ANSI device control module.  This would B give you more characters and expose you to the joys of ANSI escape
 sequences.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:21:55 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> * Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership8 Message-ID: <62v50vkvag99ev7s6fbs9iqv8tqfl5ssbm@4ax.com>  3 On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:07:53 -0500, "Brian Tillman" , <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  4 >>Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS. > K >You do not have to be a member to qualify for the hobbyist license.  Being * >an associate is sufficient and it's free.  L Has this ever been true of the *UK* branch, which is the one the OP referred to ?  I think not, sadly.      	John    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 05:44:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership3 Message-ID: <NCg9$QcW2DEG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <62v50vkvag99ev7s6fbs9iqv8tqfl5ssbm@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:5 > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:07:53 -0500, "Brian Tillman" . > <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote: > 5 >>>Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.  >>L >>You do not have to be a member to qualify for the hobbyist license.  Being+ >>an associate is sufficient and it's free.  > N > Has this ever been true of the *UK* branch, which is the one the OP referred > to ?  I think not, sadly.   D If that is a problem, I would think someone from the UK could becomeB an associate member of the US chapter.  (I thought I heard foreign3 member rules had been relaxed in the past 5 years.)    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 05:47:19 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)* Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership3 Message-ID: <aSar5l4GvY$n@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <62v50vkvag99ev7s6fbs9iqv8tqfl5ssbm@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:5 > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:07:53 -0500, "Brian Tillman" . > <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote: > 5 >>>Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS.  >>L >>You do not have to be a member to qualify for the hobbyist license.  Being+ >>an associate is sufficient and it's free.  > N > Has this ever been true of the *UK* branch, which is the one the OP referred > to ?  I think not, sadly.  >  >  > 	John   I Going back to over a decade ago, membership of DECUS UK was free, and you I just paid for (for example) attending meetings and the annual conference.   E Then you got the 25 quid a year membership fee (plus an extra 10 quid  oneoff joining fee.)  I Then this year, they decided to consolidate, and hence it's now 55 quid a J year (rising to 60 quid a year from sometime in the new year) with lots ofH irrelevant (to me anyway; I'm a VMS customer and hobbyist, not a HP one) HP information now thrown in.   L Note to US readers, 1 UKP = approx 1.4 to 1.5 USD at current exchange rates.   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:12:26 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> * Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership8 Message-ID: <uh560v8ds1n1d677e35i0lb1pvp20hbq40@4ax.com>  F On 20 Dec 2002 05:44:38 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  g >In article <62v50vkvag99ev7s6fbs9iqv8tqfl5ssbm@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes: 6 >> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:07:53 -0500, "Brian Tillman"/ >> <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  >>  6 >>>>Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS. >>> M >>>You do not have to be a member to qualify for the hobbyist license.  Being , >>>an associate is sufficient and it's free. >>  O >> Has this ever been true of the *UK* branch, which is the one the OP referred  >> to ?  I think not, sadly. > E >If that is a problem, I would think someone from the UK could become C >an associate member of the US chapter.  (I thought I heard foreign 4 >member rules had been relaxed in the past 5 years.)  L See Simon's reply - it is a problem.  I did know it was technically possibleK to join the US chapter, but made much easier if one could quote an address. < Maybe time to have a quiet word in the ear of some ex-pats !  H I know in the grand scheme of things, $80 is not a king's ransom, but itH seems that way when the biggest market of all gets hobbyist licences for8 free (seemingly with the help of internal VMS lobbying).     	John    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 14:57:21 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> * Subject: Re: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership8 Message-ID: <2hb60vgggif4vq5nc1feqdq43qoattv37t@4ax.com>   On 20 Dec 2002 05:47:19 -0600,C clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote:    > M >Note to US readers, 1 UKP = approx 1.4 to 1.5 USD at current exchange rates.   F Minor point but 1 UK pound = 1.6 US Dollars these days. The dollar hasE been falling against the pound for the last 6 months. Now is the best 4 time for UK residents to order good from the States!  < The dollar has even dropped below the Euro. $1 = 0.97 Euros.  F This is partly a result of the US Interest Rates being lowered so much" to try and kick-start the economy.   >  >Simon.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:30:58 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: RE: DECUS^H^H^H^H^HCUO membership0 Message-ID: <01C2A80A.A1404BC0@sulfer.icius.com>  D >In article <62v50vkvag99ev7s6fbs9iqv8tqfl5ssbm@4ax.com>, John Laird" <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:6 >> On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:07:53 -0500, "Brian Tillman"/ >> <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> wrote:  >>  6 >>>>Bastards. I only joined so I can run Hobbyist VMS. >>> M >>>You do not have to be a member to qualify for the hobbyist license.  Being , >>>an associate is sufficient and it's free. >>  F >> Has this ever been true of the *UK* branch, which is the one the OP referred >> to ?  I think not, sadly. > E >If that is a problem, I would think someone from the UK could become C >an associate member of the US chapter.  (I thought I heard foreign 4 >member rules had been relaxed in the past 5 years.)  D If anyone's really stuck with this and needs a US mailing address toE join, drop me a note offline and we can come to some arrangement. VMS   should be a basic human right...   Shane    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 07:22:30 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 3 Message-ID: <x4lIvEHLkijV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <HiWVK9XMOhRq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > 6 > RMS merely does what it is told by your FTP program.  A    Ture, but they're all consistent.  I'll have to go dig through E    my RMS manual, unless someone knows off the top of their head:  is A    setting the last byte used supported for fixed length 512 byte E    records?  (I'd assume not, or the records wouldn't truely be fixed D    length.)  Is there a better record format for a true byte stream 0    that does support setting the last byte used?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:46:28 -0500 # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> = Subject: RE: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDMEOBCGAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----D > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org]) > Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:23 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems)  >  > e > In article <HiWVK9XMOhRq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > > 8 > > RMS merely does what it is told by your FTP program. > C >    Ture, but they're all consistent.  I'll have to go dig through G >    my RMS manual, unless someone knows off the top of their head:  is C >    setting the last byte used supported for fixed length 512 byte G >    records?  (I'd assume not, or the records wouldn't truely be fixed F >    length.)  Is there a better record format for a true byte stream 2 >    that does support setting the last byte used? >   D 	Off the top of my head I'd think it (FFB) was always set to 0 (???)D 	as ALL records are 512 bytes long. That's what consistent means ;-)   	Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:04:09 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 8 Message-ID: <20021220090409.642f39dd.mathog@caltech.edu>  " On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:04:53 -0500' John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote:    > H > There was a time when new hires from college, etc. HAD VMS experience?  ? Yes.  In the mid 80s there were a lot of VMS systems working as < the central servers on many campuses and they were common inB all scientific and engineering disciplines.  Complex lab equipmentE often came with a small VAX.  It started ramping down after that when @ Digital priced themselves out of the market (ie, above both UnixC machines and PCs) and today you can hardly find anybody on a campus  using VMS systems.    
 Game over.  0 Oh yes, the lab equipment that once shipped withD a VAX now comes instead with a PC.  And that sucks - not because I'm= feeling sorry for cHumPaq, but because the VAXes just ran and ; ran, while the PCs are both more fragile physically and are ; hacker magnets. You could put the VAX on the net and forget = about it, but doing that with a PC is a recipe for disaster - A the security holes for whatever version of Windows you're running < eventually get exploited, and you often can't upgrade the OSB because it would break the custom software that drives the device.= There is a  solution:  put firewall software on every such PC 9 before attaching it to the network.  Unfortunately, while ? system administrators know this, the lab rats do not, so we see 3 a lot of compromised PCs attached to lab equipment.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu> Manager, Sequence Analysis Facility, Biology Division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:34:33 +0000 + From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 8 Message-ID: <rkk60volem5bgmqmnsrqsd0nq8u20db920@4ax.com>  K On 20 Dec 2002 07:22:30 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob  Koehler) wrote:   d >In article <HiWVK9XMOhRq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >>  7 >> RMS merely does what it is told by your FTP program.  > B >   Ture, but they're all consistent.  I'll have to go dig throughF >   my RMS manual, unless someone knows off the top of their head:  isB >   setting the last byte used supported for fixed length 512 byteF >   records?  (I'd assume not, or the records wouldn't truely be fixedE >   length.)  Is there a better record format for a true byte stream  1 >   that does support setting the last byte used?   J Your assumption is wrong.  If you FTP a random-length file in binary mode,L then fixed-length 512-byte records is the structure you get and the EOF byteJ is correctly set.  A small Fortran test program confirms - a partial writeA to the last block results in a partial read when it is read back.      	John    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 11:15:18 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Demise of VMS (and most other operating systems) 3 Message-ID: <NxjoOcda5KTw@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <rkk60volem5bgmqmnsrqsd0nq8u20db920@4ax.com>, John Laird <john@laird-towers.org.uk> writes:M > On 20 Dec 2002 07:22:30 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob  > Koehler) wrote:  > e >>In article <HiWVK9XMOhRq@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >>> 8 >>> RMS merely does what it is told by your FTP program. >>C >>   Ture, but they're all consistent.  I'll have to go dig through G >>   my RMS manual, unless someone knows off the top of their head:  is C >>   setting the last byte used supported for fixed length 512 byte G >>   records?  (I'd assume not, or the records wouldn't truely be fixed F >>   length.)  Is there a better record format for a true byte stream 2 >>   that does support setting the last byte used? > L > Your assumption is wrong.  If you FTP a random-length file in binary mode,N > then fixed-length 512-byte records is the structure you get and the EOF byteL > is correctly set.  A small Fortran test program confirms - a partial writeC > to the last block results in a partial read when it is read back.   E    I am making no assumption.  This is based on experience.  We FTP a E    random length file in binary.  We get a collection of fixed length G    512 byte records.  The last record is 0 filled.  A C program reading H    the file as a stream file gets the whole last record.  There's no wayD    to tell the correct length unless you know that the original file    did not end in bytes of 0.   C    If you'ld like to post your example, I'm willing to work out why     you think it's working.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:05:38 +0200 % From: "Mariuz" <mariuz@stop.spam.org> < Subject: Re: HP Advocacy "me too"'s - Hammer port, marketing: Message-ID: <pan.2002.12.20.11.05.38.541174@stop.spam.org>   Where is the link ?  pls    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:50:25 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) 1 Subject: Re: initialize/erase does no useful work . Message-ID: <3e02d97e.640921@news.demon.co.uk>  D At least in the deep, dark past it was possible for some controllersC to execute a data security erase operation directly, if the pattern > was right.  Typically, they knew how to handle zeroing blocks.  A I have no idea if that's the case with these controllers/devices.    Jim.  F On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 04:22:53 GMT, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> wrote:  = >"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message " >news:3E028FF4.2F161443@fsi.net... >> "Mark E. Levy" wrote: >> >A >> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message & >> > news:3E027409.3AE1549A@fsi.net...K >> > > What you need to understand is that the erase command is executed by  >theL >> > > device, not the INIT program. In you case, it is executed by the RAIDC >> > > controller. So, the bigger the RAIDset, the longer it takes.  >> >I >> > Actually, it's done by the ACP or the device driver, not the device.  >It's M >> > similar to the "hang" that occurs when you try to create a huge file and G >> > have high-water marking turned on. The ACP has to erase all of the  >blocks - >> > you just allocated, and it takes awhile.  >>K >> Hhmmm... Funny. When I did something similar on an ES40 with twin HSZ80s F >> and 18GB disks, my process did no I/O, there was no I/O activity inF >> MONITOR SYSTEM and the lights on the SBBs stayed on solid the whole >> time. > E >You won't see any I/O on your process because the work is being done K >elsewhere. Your process merely requested an ACP operation and it (the ACP)  >took off and did the work.  > I >I'm not ruling out the possibility that a higher-end controller like the L >HZx80 can so this operation autonomously, but it hasn't been my experience. >  >ML  >  >    Jim Johnson  Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 05:42:16 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: initialize/erase does no useful work 3 Message-ID: <PZTsx20QzMdV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <xWwM9.234141$pN3.19022@sccrnsc03>, "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> writes: > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3E028FF4.2F161443@fsi.net...   K >> Hhmmm... Funny. When I did something similar on an ES40 with twin HSZ80s F >> and 18GB disks, my process did no I/O, there was no I/O activity inF >> MONITOR SYSTEM and the lights on the SBBs stayed on solid the whole >> time. > F > You won't see any I/O on your process because the work is being doneL > elsewhere. Your process merely requested an ACP operation and it (the ACP) > took off and did the work.  E Is this an ODS-1 disk (for which the ACP is relevant) ?  For ODS-2/5, F the ACP was long ago (as in, for any version that can run on an Alpha,E much less an ES40) replaced with the XQP which issues IO from process  context.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 22:06:42 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>1 Subject: Re: initialize/erase does no useful work - Message-ID: <87y96kn5sd.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / "Mark Oakley" <MOAKLEY1@insight.rr.com> writes:   E > My INIT/ERASE jobs typically take all night and sometimes longer. I F > use an HSJ50 to erase mostly 9 GB drives. The controller does nearlyE > all the work, so your process does not clock DIOs. My guess is that B > the HSZ50 would not do much better. I don't how much longer your? > process would have run, but it could have been several hours.   @ SCSI does not have DSE in the controller as MSCP controllers do.     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:46:00 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> ; Subject: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet??? ' Message-ID: <3E033B38.54CA0F6F@vcu.edu>   ? subject says it all... the vms 5.5-2 clusterconfig.com seems to G want/need decnet running, but with the advent of the new cslg, it looks : like decnet is gone (or i had too much Christmas cheer...)  @ So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that?   jim    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:58:13 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ? Subject: Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet??? ; Message-ID: <01KQ9G4S9P5YA24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   A > subject says it all... the vms 5.5-2 clusterconfig.com seems to I > want/need decnet running, but with the advent of the new cslg, it looks < > like decnet is gone (or i had too much Christmas cheer...)  / Do you have SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM?   B > So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that?   Yes.  D A cluster can be run without DECnet.  Of course, you won't have any D DECnet capabilities, but everything else works.  Basically, I think E DECnet is only needed for satellite booting and MONITOR.  However, in , SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM you might see:  D $! Remove the comment delimiter ($!) from the following line to have $! Monitor run with TCP/IP.  $!  $!$ @SYS$STARTUP:VPM$STARTUP.COM  A I'm not sure about either of these, since 5.5-2 has been a while.   H Why not upgrade?  If you have CSLG, you have most licenses you need.  I C have heard conflicting things about whether the new, free academic  # licenses can be combined with CSLG.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:03:15 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> ? Subject: Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet??? ; Message-ID: <01KQ9GHZT218A24IEW@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   1 > Do you have SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM?  > D > > So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that? >  > Yes. > F > A cluster can be run without DECnet.  Of course, you won't have any F > DECnet capabilities, but everything else works.  Basically, I think . > DECnet is only needed for satellite booting   @ Sorry, a bit unclear.  The _LAN means you don't need DECnet for  satellite booting.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:21:49 -0500t! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>S? Subject: Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???^' Message-ID: <3E03439D.60C388B4@vcu.edu>m  H we can't upgrade, since we're running an Ingres 6.4-03 database, the oneE that's one little number below what is certified for running on vms 6  and beyond..   we're stuck at vms 5.5-2       Phillip Helbig wrote:y > C > > subject says it all... the vms 5.5-2 clusterconfig.com seems tooK > > want/need decnet running, but with the advent of the new cslg, it looksp> > > like decnet is gone (or i had too much Christmas cheer...) > 1 > Do you have SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM?n > D > > So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that? >  > Yes. > E > A cluster can be run without DECnet.  Of course, you won't have anysE > DECnet capabilities, but everything else works.  Basically, I thinkcG > DECnet is only needed for satellite booting and MONITOR.  However, in . > SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM you might see: > F > $! Remove the comment delimiter ($!) from the following line to have > $! Monitor run with TCP/IP.? > $!" > $!$ @SYS$STARTUP:VPM$STARTUP.COM > C > I'm not sure about either of these, since 5.5-2 has been a while.i > I > Why not upgrade?  If you have CSLG, you have most licenses you need.  IuD > have heard conflicting things about whether the new, free academic% > licenses can be combined with CSLG.i   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 11:19:43 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n? Subject: Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet??? 3 Message-ID: <H2$iD2LFv35G@eisner.encompasserve.org>   K In article <3E033B38.54CA0F6F@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes: A > subject says it all... the vms 5.5-2 clusterconfig.com seems tobI > want/need decnet running, but with the advent of the new cslg, it lookss< > like decnet is gone (or i had too much Christmas cheer...) > B > So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that?  H    I know of clusters that have been running without DECnet since before    1992.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:19:11 -0500m! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>a? Subject: Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???t' Message-ID: <3E035F1E.9EE0E687@vcu.edu>e  < sHOOT!!!  Nope... not anything else but cluster_config.com..     Phillip Helbig wrote:M > 3 > > Do you have SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM?1 > >wF > > > So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that? > >  > > Yes. > >-G > > A cluster can be run without DECnet.  Of course, you won't have any G > > DECnet capabilities, but everything else works.  Basically, I thinkb/ > > DECnet is only needed for satellite bootingI > A > Sorry, a bit unclear.  The _LAN means you don't need DECnet for  > satellite booting.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:46:03 -0500 ! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>s? Subject: Re: Is it possible to add a cluster node w/o decnet???/' Message-ID: <3E03656B.89B1F9B0@vcu.edu>/  : How were they set up?  Just ignore the decnet questions in cluster_config.com?p   Bob Koehler wrote: > M > In article <3E033B38.54CA0F6F@vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> writes:bC > > subject says it all... the vms 5.5-2 clusterconfig.com seems toeK > > want/need decnet running, but with the advent of the new cslg, it lookse> > > like decnet is gone (or i had too much Christmas cheer...) > >1D > > So before twiddling with this, has anyone been there, done that? > J >    I know of clusters that have been running without DECnet since before
 >    1992.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:18:13 +0100g< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things4 Message-ID: <atujo3$2h3mk$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>  / Andy Bustamante wrote in newsgroup comp.os.vms:i > VAXman wrote...d >> Sue Skonetski writes:F >>> Additional information that I received today (both notes sang very@ >>> high praises to Warren Sander for his work on the web site): ...2E >>> The OSSG Documentation Group would like to announce the launch of:6 >>> our new HP branded OpenVMS Documentation Web Site: >>> ' >>> <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/B >>> A >>> The new branding puts us in full compliance with HP branding.  >> o >> Aw crap!i >> eA >> I was wondering how long it would be before I'd have to tie up F >> another CDrom with the doc set; this new branding make the previous# >> web hosted doc set un- readable.e >dD > I provided followed the link to provide feedback on the giant leapD > backwards.  The VMS doc set has been crown jewel, especially beingC > able to go back a release or two.  Gotta say, liked the old pageseD > much better. Drilling down into different pages is nowhere near as	 > useful.t  B Errr... excuse me? There still are docs for VMS 7.3-1, 7.3, 7.2-2,< and 7.2 available. Just enter the "OpenVMS operating system"F documentation from the navigation bar, and right under the search bar,D there are links that lead to the other versions. Likewise for Compaq tcp/ip services 5.3 and 5.1.  ; As far as I can see, the docset didn't loose any content...r  C As a programmer, I consider the integration of the BASIC, COBOL and B DECset docs a step in the right direction. Perhaps the C, C++, andG PASCAL docsets could be integrated as well (or at least links to them)?uE (Hold out a finger to a customer, and he will grab the whole hand ;-)a   cu,g   Martin  A BTW, the links to "Getting the Most out of Your Processor" (undera5 "OpenVMS document supplements") are missing a "/doc".g -- hI One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmerh7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.dedI One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ? And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de s   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:21:13 GMTe" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things0 Message-ID: <00A18B80.D8CBAC7A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  } In article <v3tM9.1468$_V5.108708@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> writes:hC >I provided followed the link to provide feedback on the giant leaptK >backwards.  The VMS doc set has been crown jewel, especially being able toaG >go back a release or two.  Gotta say, liked the old pages much better.a> >Drilling down into different pages is nowhere near as useful.  @ The main page is unreadable; table data scrunched altogether and( displaying atop other data or truncated.  @ The [Contents] links lead to totaly blank pages save for the HP  "blanding".u  $ Another glitz over content web site.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:26:02 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things0 Message-ID: <00A18B81.84A051ED@SendSpamHere.ORG>  s In article <atujo3$2h3mk$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>, "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes: 0 >Andy Bustamante wrote in newsgroup comp.os.vms: >> VAXman wrote... >>> Sue Skonetski writes:cG >>>> Additional information that I received today (both notes sang verySA >>>> high praises to Warren Sander for his work on the web site):- >....-F >>>> The OSSG Documentation Group would like to announce the launch of7 >>>> our new HP branded OpenVMS Documentation Web Site:s >>>> y( >>>> <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/ >>>> .B >>>> The new branding puts us in full compliance with HP branding. >>>  >>> Aw crap! >>> B >>> I was wondering how long it would be before I'd have to tie upG >>> another CDrom with the doc set; this new branding make the previoust$ >>> web hosted doc set un- readable. >>E >> I provided followed the link to provide feedback on the giant leapsE >> backwards.  The VMS doc set has been crown jewel, especially beingyD >> able to go back a release or two.  Gotta say, liked the old pagesE >> much better. Drilling down into different pages is nowhere near aso
 >> useful. >tC >Errr... excuse me? There still are docs for VMS 7.3-1, 7.3, 7.2-2,e= >and 7.2 available. Just enter the "OpenVMS operating system"sG >documentation from the navigation bar, and right under the search bar,nE >there are links that lead to the other versions. Likewise for Compaqh >tcp/ip services 5.3 and 5.1.    Huh.  Where?  < >As far as I can see, the docset didn't loose any content...   It does when I click [Contents]-  C Oh.  This is another "force Brian to the darkside" change to the HPh web site.  Sorry.  Won't work.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM5            u5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 14:00:10 +0100 < From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things4 Message-ID: <atv4bh$308a1$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>  
 VAXman wrote:rA > "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes: eE >> Errr... excuse me? There still are docs for VMS 7.3-1, 7.3, 7.2-2,i? >> and 7.2 available. Just enter the "OpenVMS operating system" D >> documentation from the navigation bar, and right under the searchE >> bar, there are links that lead to the other versions. Likewise forr& >> Compaq tcp/ip services 5.3 and 5.1. >  > Huh.  Where? > > >> As far as I can see, the docset didn't loose any content... > ! > It does when I click [Contents]  > B > Oh.  This is another "force Brian to the darkside" change to the# > HP web site.  Sorry.  Won't work.l  D Oh. Sorry. I misunderstood. Your browser fails to browse the page... Netscape? Mozilla? CSWB?  A I must admit I first viewed the site with Opera. But now I looked @ at it using Lynx, and I must say, it's an improvement wrt to theC old Compaq pages (on which Lynx always stopped after the navigation2 bar).4   cu,    Martin --  I One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmerl7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de I One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/c> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:18:32 GMTM. From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things3 Message-ID: <IMEM9.22240$Sy3.202091@news.chello.at>t  s In article <atv4bh$308a1$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>, "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes:e >VAXman wrote:B >> "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de> writes: F >>> Errr... excuse me? There still are docs for VMS 7.3-1, 7.3, 7.2-2,@ >>> and 7.2 available. Just enter the "OpenVMS operating system"E >>> documentation from the navigation bar, and right under the search F >>> bar, there are links that lead to the other versions. Likewise for' >>> Compaq tcp/ip services 5.3 and 5.1.e >> 2 >> Huh.  Where?   H The new version of the docset does still no bring TCPIP V5.3 docs in allG cases. Most of them are still 5.1 though listed under the 5.3 column...C   -- 7 Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGERz% Network and OpenVMS system specialistr E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 08:00:13 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) $ Subject: Re: just a couple of things3 Message-ID: <aKmpPWqt7YpS@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  U In article <00A18B0A.1927384F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:h > 
 > Aw crap! > N > I was wondering how long it would be before I'd have to tie up another CDromN > with the doc set; this new branding make the previous web hosted doc set un- > readable.C  ?    Tried it with Mozilla, looked OK, but Mozilla is a bit of anyF    overload for a VXT 2000+ hanging off a DEC 3000 600S.  Tied it with.    Netscape and fell into cookie/repaint hell.  3    What, we're supposed to read these from Windoze?r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:43:07 GMTl" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things0 Message-ID: <00A18B9D.0D000981@SendSpamHere.ORG>  q In article <aKmpPWqt7YpS@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:pV >In article <00A18B0A.1927384F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> 5 >> Aw crap!l >>  O >> I was wondering how long it would be before I'd have to tie up another CDromcO >> with the doc set; this new branding make the previous web hosted doc set un-y >> readable. >n@ >   Tried it with Mozilla, looked OK, but Mozilla is a bit of anG >   overload for a VXT 2000+ hanging off a DEC 3000 600S.  Tied it withn/ >   Netscape and fell into cookie/repaint hell.- >-4 >   What, we're supposed to read these from Windoze? >e   BOHICA, BOHICA...K   Bend over here it comes... BOHICA, BOHICA...r   again!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMv            x5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:38:42 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s$ Subject: Re: just a couple of thingsH Message-ID: <SsJM9.26706$opk.10545@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:aKmpPWqt7YpS@eisner.encompasserve.org...s< > In article <00A18B0A.1927384F@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:h > >o > > Aw crap! > >oJ > > I was wondering how long it would be before I'd have to tie up another CDrombL > > with the doc set; this new branding make the previous web hosted doc set un- 
 > > readable.2 > A >    Tried it with Mozilla, looked OK, but Mozilla is a bit of an(H >    overload for a VXT 2000+ hanging off a DEC 3000 600S.  Tied it with0 >    Netscape and fell into cookie/repaint hell. ><5 >    What, we're supposed to read these from Windoze?  >h  C Probably. The whole HP site is PC-centric w.r.t. viewing web pages.B   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:40:07 -0500a& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>$ Subject: Re: just a couple of things3 Message-ID: <ewJM9.17$vX3.1465529@news.cpqcorp.net>>   JF Mezei wrote:f > Sue Skonetski wrote: > K >>I just wanted to let you know that I will be officially out of the officedJ >>until Jan 6th, but in reality I will be in and out the week of the 30th. >  > I > You have to come in once a day to feed the engineers in their habitat ?e >   H She left me extra Jolt, Twinkees, and potato chips.  I'll survive until  she gets back. :-)     -- 0 John Reaganf' Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leaderc Hewlett-Packard Companyh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:50:26 -0500h+ From: "Irving F. Snurd" <dacadc0@lycos.com>n6 Subject: looking for CD-RW or DVD-RW capability on VMS) Message-ID: <3E033C42.40740992@lycos.com>r  H We're running several DS10s (Alpha, OpenVMS 7.3, PCI bus, IDE) and wouldF like to be able to write files (or do backup) to CD or DVD.  Are thereG any driver/hardware combinations out there yet?  We could go SCSI if we- need to.         Thanks for any help.              Bill Manwaring, IUCF   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:39:30 -0500u% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>o: Subject: Re: looking for CD-RW or DVD-RW capability on VMS/ Message-ID: <v06ov3oa4q42a7@news.supernews.com>a   It's in OpenVMS V7.3-1.a  6 "Irving F. Snurd" <dacadc0@lycos.com> wrote in message# news:3E033C42.40740992@lycos.com..."J > We're running several DS10s (Alpha, OpenVMS 7.3, PCI bus, IDE) and wouldH > like to be able to write files (or do backup) to CD or DVD.  Are thereI > any driver/hardware combinations out there yet?  We could go SCSI if wei
 > need to. >         Thanks for any help." >             Bill Manwaring, IUCF >c   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 07:23:54 -0800( From: rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton)9 Subject: Loss of Enet Performance on DS10 -> DS25 Upgrade < Message-ID: <dba64bc2.0212200723.62faa1d@posting.google.com>  B I have two DS10 computers in the following configuration: (this isD part of a larger configuration - but I think this is enough for this discussion)a  (                      +-----------------+(                      |  Enet Switch A  |(                      +-----------------+&                        |             |&                        |             |.                +----------+       +----------+.                |  CPU #1  |       |  CPU #2  |.                +----------+       +----------+&                        |             |&                        |             |(                      +-----------------+(                      |  Enet Switch B  |(                      +-----------------+  C Both Ethernet Switches are identical and are 3Com SuperStacker 3300eC 10/100 models.  The DS10s (OpenVMS V7.3-1, TCP/IP Services 5.3 withaC the MUP, DECnet IV) are configured to use TCP on both networks, andl DECnet only on Network B.h  C A simple copy of a large file on CPU #1 to the NL: Device on CPU #2sD provides an indication that the two networks are fairly equal:  WhenE copying the file via FTP, both Network A and Network B provide a fourrA second copy time, while the DECnet copy on Network B completes inc about 1.5 seconds.  C I then upgraded CPU #1 to a DS25.  The DS25, like the DS10, has two A ethernet ports on the motherboard.  Since the DS10 was already atoF 7.3-1, I simply loaded an image copy from the DS10 to the DS25 for theB system disk, and made the required changes for device names in theC TCP/IP and DECnet configurations.  I connected the 10/100 Port A toO= Network A, and connected the 10/100/1000 Port B to Network B._  B The DS10s are set up at the console mode to auto-negotiate on bothF ports, so I configured the DS25 to do the same.  Both ports, according@ to the console messages, negotiated to 100 Full Duplex. This was	 expected.   E After the first few minutes of uptime, we noticed the Ethernet Switch B Port Link Light for Network B (DS25) would occasionally drop out. ? Expecting a problem with negotiation, we shut down the DS25 andaC configured Port B for 100 Full Duplex and rebooted.  We are in thatm
 state now.  D Performing the same test, the file transfers on Network A via FTP inE about the same four seconds.  However, the same file takes 34 secondsd@ to transfer via FTP on Network B, and a whopping 1 minute and 50 seconds to transfer via DECnet.-  & So my questions to the group would be:  B 1.  Is there additional configurations that I should have done for= Port B, even though I am not trying to obtain gigabit speeds?s  B 2.  Even though I am not trying to obtain Gigabit speeds, must the Ethernet Switch be upgraded?  C 3.  What analysis tools should I be using to determine the problem?   & 4.  Anything else I did not think off?   Thanks for all of the help!a   Robbie   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 07:17:49 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)L Subject: Machine checks not always hardware failures, was: Re: Machine Check3 Message-ID: <OXUtF2p6V58I@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3E00E7FB.8060100@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  > JF,- > ( > A machine check IS a hardware failure.  J I would like to address the myth that a machine check is always a hardware. failure. This is usually true, but not always.  G The VMS device driver that I am developing for the PCI WinTV card in my G home Alpha machine checked the Alpha 3 or 4 times in succession in it'seK early days of development until I fixed it. The problem was that the driver.0 was accessing the PCI address space incorrectly.   Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:36:07 -0600 % From: "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> P Subject: Re: Machine checks not always hardware failures, was: Re: Machine Check> Message-ID: <Xns92EA759FFCA43acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  < clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)A enlightened us with news:OXUtF2p6V58I@eisner.encompasserve.org ont
 20 Dec 2002: t  r> > The VMS device driver that I am developing for the PCI WinTV > card in my home Alpha machiney  : Just curious.... although my current Alpha (DECpc AXP 150)= doesn't "do" PCI... my next one will... do you have plans on DF making this driver available at some point ? (and for how much ($$) ? # (I'm assuming not for free...))... l   Thanks   -Andy-  * [Remove the first dot to reply via e-mail] -- sE Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: "Any sufficiently complicated  B C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified bug-5 ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."      ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 11:43:22 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)P Subject: Re: Machine checks not always hardware failures, was: Re: Machine Check3 Message-ID: <fhIGswp6Pw4A@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  f In article <Xns92EA759FFCA43acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>, "-Andy-" <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:> > clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)C > enlightened us with news:OXUtF2p6V58I@eisner.encompasserve.org on  > 20 Dec 2002: o >  n? >> The VMS device driver that I am developing for the PCI WinTV   >> card in my home Alpha machine > < > Just curious.... although my current Alpha (DECpc AXP 150)? > doesn't "do" PCI... my next one will... do you have plans on fH > making this driver available at some point ? (and for how much ($$) ? % > (I'm assuming not for free...))... f >   D I am writing the driver for fun, so if I were to release it, I wouldC release it free of cost and under a GPL style license. Besides, theeG machine that I am developing it on is a hobbyist machine, so that would  be the only option.o  2 Unfortunately, I will not be releasing it because:  I 1) I am writing it to learn about various technologies and techniques. AstI a result the code is an experimental testbed, and the quality of the codea) is not up to what are my usual standards.D  G 2) I will just be using it to extract teletext information. There is no2I support for displaying the picture or listening to the audio signal. (See:  L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1rKXcCRuXaxX%40eisner.encompasserve.org   for a bit more information.)  L 3) It's for a specific card, for a specific television format (PAL-I). There is no NTSC support.    Simon.   -- OB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:41:03 +0100t< From: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin.vorlaender@pdv-systeme.de>. Subject: MIME extension recognition under CSWS4 Message-ID: <atus3t$2t5t3$1@ID-56200.news.dfncis.de>   Hi,   C I just stumbled over an annoyance with CSWS 1.2 and didn't find any 2 notice in the 1.3 release notes, so I'll ask here:  G I have a few .PCSI-ZIP_AXPEXE files on my site, and would like to serveoC them as application/zip (or /octet-stream). So I started out addingd  ( AddType application/zip .pcsi-zip_axpexe  F to conf/httpd.conf, and restarted. Didn't work - file gets served with the DefaultType.  B I entered the extension in conf/mime.types, and restarted. No luck either.a  ! Am I just thick or is this a bug?-   Environment:" OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 with loads of ECOs" System disk ODS-2, data disk ODS-5 CSWS 1.2 + UPDATE-4.0r   cu,j   Martin  G P.S.: For now, I've changed my DefaultType to application/octet-stream.@ -- rI One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  | VMS & WNT programmerc7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de2I One OS to bring them all      |  http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:51:42 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>T, Subject: Re: Need to configure Samba for VMS' Message-ID: <3E02F63E.116E0638@aaa.com>e  4 And don't forget to register as a member of the list6 yourself, so you'll see any answers posted back to the list...>   :-)r   Jan-Erik Sderholm.r   "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > N > There are two or three different versions of Samba VMS.  Please email (plainJ > text only) your question to mailto:samba-vms@lists.samba.org.  The folks% > there will need your Samba version.e >  > Mike Ober. >  > > "Diane M. Gonzales" wrote: > > > L > > > I have downloaded the Samba binaries for OpenVMS and have followed theJ > > > instructions in the readme.vms file.   Currently the NMBD process is > > > running.? > > > All I need is to be able to copy a file from my PC to thexL > > > \\hostsamba\share drive, however I have not been able to do this.    I! > > > have a very simple smb.conf.K > > > file using security server.    Does anyone have experience with Samba 
 > > > on VMS?h > > >t > > > Thanks in advance :-}t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:25:00 +0000t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3E02EFFC.2040804@nospamn.sun.com>   Mark E. Levy wrote:2M > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>:; > wrote in message news:3E020313.3080100@nospamn.sun.com...  >  > 4 >>Or could it be that balanced systems design is the5 >>key to good performance, CPU, Compiler, Memory, I/Oe0 >>apps. AlphaServers may well be good at 1 and 21 >>but with the exception of the ES45 don't figureu >>well on 3 and 4. >  > M > As I've pointed out before, Andrew, your credibility hovers near zero here.tE > You're quick to point out the alleged shortcoming of other vendor'seI > products, but maintain that your employer's products are the epitome ofiN > perfection. It's abundantly obvious that YOU are NOT objective. Not that I'd5 > expect that you would be, but that changes nothing.  >   3 How interesting, how about attacking my points witho3 facts rather than what appears to be your opinions..  4 It is a fact that GS320's have longer memory latency6 that either P690's, F series Sun's or Domes. Depending on system between 2-4 time.w  2 It is also a fact that the GS320 with an all local7 STREAMS result currently has the lowest streams numbersc5 for any of the large SMP systems it competes against.I  3 It is also a fact that the GS series have performed>/ badly on TPC-H, SAP, Oracle applications, TPC-Cn2 etc when compared with to either Sun's HP Domes or3 P690's. Both in throughput terms and throughput per  CPU.  3 It is a fact that Compaq had to run OPS in a box to 0 get their modest TPC-C result. It is a fact that5 this was done precisely because that memory subsystem>( in the GS has too long a remote latency.  9 It does however have good SPECint and SPECfp performance.S  5 Nowhere in this is a claim for the supremacy of Sun'so4 all I ask is that pro-alpha posters stop BSing about4 Alpha performance, there isn't currently a case that3 supports it and there wasn't one in the past. It isb3 just a marketing fiction and a sad bad one at that.e   Regardse Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 06:39:26 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212200639.1beb6dfc@posting.google.com>    Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E02EFFC.2040804@nospamn.sun.com>...2 > Mark E. Levy wrote:mO > > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> = > > wrote in message news:3E020313.3080100@nospamn.sun.com...g > > O > > As I've pointed out before, Andrew, your credibility hovers near zero here.mG > > You're quick to point out the alleged shortcoming of other vendor'seK > > products, but maintain that your employer's products are the epitome ofhP > > perfection. It's abundantly obvious that YOU are NOT objective. Not that I'd7 > > expect that you would be, but that changes nothing.  > >  > ; > It does however have good SPECint and SPECfp performance.  > 7 > Nowhere in this is a claim for the supremacy of Sun's 6 > all I ask is that pro-alpha posters stop BSing about6 > Alpha performance, there isn't currently a case that5 > supports it and there wasn't one in the past. It isr5 > just a marketing fiction and a sad bad one at that.n > 	 > Regardsn > Andrew Harrisons  = well, if sparky and all these other junk cpus are better thano< alpha, why did intel buy the alpha design and the alpha team; instead of sun or ibm?  because even intel knows a superior < chip when they see it, and they use it everyday on their fab8 line to make their chips ... intelligent answers please!   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 07:51:22 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?3 Message-ID: <S+Yn8T2YRju0@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  X In article <3E020313.3080100@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 4 > Or could it be that balanced systems design is the5 > key to good performance, CPU, Compiler, Memory, I/Od0 > apps. AlphaServers may well be good at 1 and 21 > but with the exception of the ES45 don't figure  > well on 3 and 4.  G    "Balanced systems" was the catch phrase as DEC when VAXen got so far6D    behind the performance curve of all the RISC chips, and when theyB    stop talking VUPs and started talking TPC (which tend to be I/O    intensive).  D    That and referencing Gartner makes Andrew sound failry desparate.B    Is there something going wrong at Sun that we don't know about?F    I'm sure I know lots of Sun worshippers that will stil buy anything#    McNealy want to put the name on..   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 07:57:11 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?3 Message-ID: <EbZw1b8IHQfh@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  X In article <3E02EFFC.2040804@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 5 > It is also a fact that the GS series have performedm1 > badly on TPC-H, SAP, Oracle applications, TPC-Cd4 > etc when compared with to either Sun's HP Domes or5 > P690's. Both in throughput terms and throughput pere > CPU.  ;    Useless benchmarks based on somebody else's application.    > ; > It does however have good SPECint and SPECfp performance.o  9    Now, that we can use, fits our applications very well.E  @    Someday Andrew needs to climb down out of his blue-grey tower>    and find out there are more applications under the sun than    the few he knows.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:20:04 +0000s' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyo6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3E033524.9000902@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E02EFFC.2040804@nospamn.sun.com>...t >  >>Mark E. Levy wrote:a >>N >>>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>< >>>wrote in message news:3E020313.3080100@nospamn.sun.com... >>>cN >>>As I've pointed out before, Andrew, your credibility hovers near zero here.F >>>You're quick to point out the alleged shortcoming of other vendor'sJ >>>products, but maintain that your employer's products are the epitome ofO >>>perfection. It's abundantly obvious that YOU are NOT objective. Not that I'd 6 >>>expect that you would be, but that changes nothing. >>>  >>; >>It does however have good SPECint and SPECfp performance.? >>7 >>Nowhere in this is a claim for the supremacy of Sun'sc6 >>all I ask is that pro-alpha posters stop BSing about6 >>Alpha performance, there isn't currently a case that5 >>supports it and there wasn't one in the past. It ise5 >>just a marketing fiction and a sad bad one at that.t >>	 >>Regards- >>Andrew Harrison- >  > ? > well, if sparky and all these other junk cpus are better thann> > alpha, why did intel buy the alpha design and the alpha team= > instead of sun or ibm?  because even intel knows a superiorc> > chip when they see it, and they use it everyday on their fab: > line to make their chips ... intelligent answers please!  3 It would help if you asked an intelligent question.5  2 You cannot buy a team, Intel bought the Hudson FAB5 and after the axing of Alpha some of the Alpha design  team moved to Intel.  2 However a lot of them did not, Sun for example has7 some of them working for us in our Burlington facility.r  6 Intel's investment if you can call it that has been in2 removing one of its competitors in the 64bit space6 from the market. There seems precious little else that3 Intel gained. They were in effect forced to buy then, FAB in the patent negociations with Digital.   Regardss Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:28:03 +0000 ' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3E033703.7040900@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3E020313.3080100@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 4 >>Or could it be that balanced systems design is the5 >>key to good performance, CPU, Compiler, Memory, I/Og0 >>apps. AlphaServers may well be good at 1 and 21 >>but with the exception of the ES45 don't figure- >>well on 3 and 4. >  > I >    "Balanced systems" was the catch phrase as DEC when VAXen got so farbF >    behind the performance curve of all the RISC chips, and when theyD >    stop talking VUPs and started talking TPC (which tend to be I/O >    intensive). > F >    That and referencing Gartner makes Andrew sound failry desparate.D >    Is there something going wrong at Sun that we don't know about?H >    I'm sure I know lots of Sun worshippers that will stil buy anything% >    McNealy want to put the name on.  >     0 Oops another CF on your part, I didn't introduce3 Gartner that was Dale Hammer, in fact I pointed outn) that Gartners analysis was pretty flawed.   1 And Balanced systems design is hardly a marketing - term, its should be the basis of any sensiblev server implimentation.  0 The reason why the GS series and before them the/ 8400 don't perform is because they don't adhere! to this very simple principle.  / If thats your idea of a desparate argument then  you have my commiserations.E   RegardsO Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Dec 2002 15:36:12 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?5 Message-ID: <atvddc$2gdtj$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>s  = In article <d7791aa1.0212200639.1beb6dfc@posting.google.com>,o+ 	bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  > ? > well, if sparky and all these other junk cpus are better than-> > alpha, why did intel buy the alpha design and the alpha team > instead of sun or ibm?    $ Because the others weren't for sale.  = >                         because even intel knows a superioru > chip when they see it,    = Ant this has to be the funniest thing you have said to date!!   @ >                          and they use it everyday on their fab: > line to make their chips ... intelligent answers please!  B I could be wrong, but I didn't think the fabs changed to alpha.  I) thought they were mostly still using VAX.i  B If Intel hadn't had one foot in the grave or if Motorolla had more? business sense and less scruples back in 1980 there wouldn't bee an Intel today.    bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:34:20 +0000t' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancym6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?, Message-ID: <3E03387C.40808@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:Z > In article <3E02EFFC.2040804@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 5 >>It is also a fact that the GS series have performedd1 >>badly on TPC-H, SAP, Oracle applications, TPC-C:4 >>etc when compared with to either Sun's HP Domes or5 >>P690's. Both in throughput terms and throughput pero >>CPU. >  > = >    Useless benchmarks based on somebody else's application.o >  > ; >>It does however have good SPECint and SPECfp performance.h >  > ; >    Now, that we can use, fits our applications very well.l > B >    Someday Andrew needs to climb down out of his blue-grey tower@ >    and find out there are more applications under the sun than >    the few he knows. >   0 Or alternatively sometime you will realise that:  3 SPECfp has almost no relevance to the vast majorityt: of commercial apps (the buld of what runs on Alpha's/Suns) because they don't use FP.  : SPECint doesn't do I/O or stress the VM or use threads etc< again making it pretty much irrelevant for the vast majority; of commercial apps, that do do I/O, do use VM and expect toq have to use multiple CPU's..  7 Of course if your platform vendors have done a good jobt3 of designing and implimenting the memory subsystem,f: I/O subsystem and the OS then the relative CPU performance7 in SPECint terms may be interesting since I?O etc arn'tn the bottleneck.(  9 But this as you know doesn't apply to the GS/8400 serversr6 so the SPECint discussion is irrelevant and the SPECfp on even more so.   Regardsg Andrew HarrisonY   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:56:36 +0000"' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?. Message-ID: <3E033DB4.9020908@nospamn.sun.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com> wrote in message news:<3E02EFFC.2040804@nospamn.sun.com>...- >  >>Mark E. Levy wrote:  >>N >>>"Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy" <Andrew_No.Harrison_No@nospamn.sun.com>< >>>wrote in message news:3E020313.3080100@nospamn.sun.com... >>>nN >>>As I've pointed out before, Andrew, your credibility hovers near zero here.F >>>You're quick to point out the alleged shortcoming of other vendor'sJ >>>products, but maintain that your employer's products are the epitome ofO >>>perfection. It's abundantly obvious that YOU are NOT objective. Not that I'da6 >>>expect that you would be, but that changes nothing. >>>f >>; >>It does however have good SPECint and SPECfp performance.a >>7 >>Nowhere in this is a claim for the supremacy of Sun'se6 >>all I ask is that pro-alpha posters stop BSing about6 >>Alpha performance, there isn't currently a case that5 >>supports it and there wasn't one in the past. It isP5 >>just a marketing fiction and a sad bad one at that.o >>	 >>Regards  >>Andrew Harrisonn >  > ? > well, if sparky and all these other junk cpus are better than-> > alpha, why did intel buy the alpha design and the alpha team= > instead of sun or ibm?  because even intel knows a superior > > chip when they see it, and they use it everyday on their fab: > line to make their chips ... intelligent answers please!  1 The more I re-read your post the funnier it gets.o  4 Question for you, if Intel knows a superior CPU when! they see one, then why have they:a   1.	Continued with IA-64e. 2.	Bought according to you Alpha Team and then/ 	not used them to do any more Alpha processors.-   regards> Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 11:17:56 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)w6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?3 Message-ID: <Kx3HQkR23BA9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3E03387C.40808@nospamn.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy writes: > 2 > Or alternatively sometime you will realise that: > 5 > SPECfp has almost no relevance to the vast majority>< > of commercial apps (the buld of what runs on Alpha's/Suns) > because they don't use FP.  ;    What I realise is that you live in a tiny world of a few     commercial apps..   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:22:24 GMTe( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>( Subject: Reminder: openvms-managers list> Message-ID: <4tHM9.49492$Fq3.2271253@twister.southeast.rr.com>   Folks,  F The openvms-managers list is up and functioning.  Over 100 people have? signed up so far.  Only messages of a technical nature allowed.e  $ Check out the info page and sign-up.  3 http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=OVMS-Managersn  L BTW, everyone still appears to be bashful.  Although the list is just a weekJ old, only one message has been sent.  You guys need to have a drink or two: and loosen up a little!  :)  Let's get this thing rolling.   -- Kenneth Farmer <>< http://www.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 09:05:18 -0800g# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: RE: Reminder: openvms-managers list9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEJCGEAA.tom@kednos.com>j   Well now two have been sent :-)e   >-----Original Message-----2. >From: Ken Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@openvms.org]( >Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:22 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) >Subject: Reminder: openvms-managers list1 >. >7 >Folks,> >dG >The openvms-managers list is up and functioning.  Over 100 people havei@ >signed up so far.  Only messages of a technical nature allowed. > % >Check out the info page and sign-up.n >L4 >http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=OVMS-Managers > B >BTW, everyone still appears to be bashful.  Although the list is  >just a weekK >old, only one message has been sent.  You guys need to have a drink or twor; >and loosen up a little!  :)  Let's get this thing rolling.o >  >--l >Kenneth Farmer <><n >http://www.OpenVMS.orgi >t >r >e >e >g >. >e >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.v; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).xB >Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 >w ---L& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:17:12 GMTh( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>, Subject: Re: Reminder: openvms-managers list> Message-ID: <I8JM9.49523$Fq3.2284803@twister.southeast.rr.com>   > >-----Original Message----- 0 > >From: Ken Farmer [mailto:kfarmer@openvms.org] > >jI > >old, only one message has been sent.  You guys need to have a drink ort twon > >c  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEJCGEAA.tom@kednos.com...t >e! > Well now two have been sent :-)n >"   That's twice as nice!  :)m   -- Kenneth Farmer <>< http://www.OpenVMS.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:28:39 GMTh6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Re: VM web ring & spamt4 Message-ID: <3E027312.1070708@digitalsynergyinc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:e > Michiel Erens wrote: >  e > A >>The vms web ring hub is indexed by Google (search in Google fordD >>Mezei and OpenVMS). So any search spider could find your page this >>way. >  >  > J > Wow, it didn't take time for the spammers to find my email address then.  F I changed my email address on our web site to be a piece of html code I written by JavaScript when the page is loaded. That seemed to eventually -   cut down on the spam.e   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Dec 2002 13:04:58 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)sE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]0- Message-ID: <atvm4a$su9$1@shell.monmouth.com>S  6 In article <atkiuj$14kk9e$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>,) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:t >iE >You wouldn't believe the looks of surprise a few weeks ago when someiC >of the faculty and students came into my research lab and found me H >sitting over a VS3100 motherboard with a hot soldering iron in my hand. >f >bill    Fixed the old VaxStation 'eh?c   Cool.e  A Put up the emulator on the windows box here and ran Unix and VMS.   ! Not too shabby on an 800mhz PIII.-   Bill --  M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+cM | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |>M |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |nN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 13:07:21 -0500 5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>sE Subject: RE: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]lO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FB5@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>D  D hmm sounds like building a multi million dollar earthquake resistent building on a sandbar :-)      -----Original Message-----E From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com [mailto:pechter@shell.monmouth.com] O' Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 1:05 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComAE Subject: Re: [OT] Humor - was [Re: AlphaServer 4100 Power-Up Problem]e       Fixed the old VaxStation 'eh?    Cool.-  A Put up the emulator on the windows box here and ran Unix and VMS.J  ! Not too shabby on an 800mhz PIII.:   Bill    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andbJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/or J instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.702 ************************is PC-centric w.r.t. viewing web pages.B   ------------------------------  % Date: @Ъ    AЪ    BЪ    CЪ    DЪ    EЪ    FЪ    GЪ    HЪ    IЪ    JЪ    KЪ    LЪ    MЪ    NЪ    OЪ    PЪ    QЪ    RЪ    SЪ    TЪ    UЪ    VЪ    WЪ    XЪ    YЪ    ZЪ    [Ъ    \Ъ    ]Ъ    ^Ъ    _Ъ    `Ъ    aЪ    bЪ    cЪ    dЪ    eЪ    fЪ    gЪ    hЪ    iЪ    jЪ    kЪ    lЪ    mЪ    nЪ    oЪ    pЪ    qЪ    rЪ    sЪ    tЪ    uЪ    vЪ    wЪ    xЪ    yЪ    zЪ    {Ъ    |Ъ    }Ъ    ~Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    ßЪ    ğЪ    şЪ    ƟЪ    ǟЪ    ȟЪ    ɟЪ    ʟЪ    ˟Ъ    ̟Ъ    ͟Ъ    ΟЪ    ϟЪ    ПЪ    џЪ    ҟЪ    ӟЪ    ԟЪ    ՟Ъ    ֟Ъ    ןЪ    ؟Ъ    ٟЪ    ڟЪ    ۟Ъ    ܟЪ    ݟЪ    ޟЪ    ߟЪ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    Ъ    