1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 26 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 714       Contents:# 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a 7 RE: A NEW SOURCING FOR YOUR ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS NEEDS 7 Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)  Re: DECserver 200/MC Re: DECserver 200/MC Re: DECserver 200/MC' Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement ! RE: First Hammer performance test ! RE: First Hammer performance test / HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 RE: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 RE: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center  Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: Link errors.& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...& RE: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...+ Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker + Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker + Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker  Re: OpenVMS Branding Query Re: OpenVMS Branding Query Re: OpenVMS Branding Query Re: Spamtrap swap IDE CD-ROM drive with SCSI P Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa!  Is Sun aP Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aimingP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun ai Re: UTC time in DCL  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: VM web ring & spam
 Re: VMS ISPs? 
 Re: VMS ISPs? , VMS731_ACRTL-V0100 Release notes [complaint] Re: Vol Shadowing Question  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:05:07 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>, Subject: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a& Message-ID: <3E0B1AA3.5070408@Free.fr>  . http://www.mgtinsight.com/studies/aim/ovms.htm  A Please fill in and click "I want mixed VAX/ALPHA/Itanium Cluster  I capability" in question E12a, or "we" will not have it and all these VAX   Customers will go elsewhere.   Thanks.    D.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 09:23:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a3 Message-ID: <ZbHYfHUFEghB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3E0B1AA3.5070408@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: 0 > http://www.mgtinsight.com/studies/aim/ovms.htm > C > Please fill in and click "I want mixed VAX/ALPHA/Itanium Cluster  K > capability" in question E12a, or "we" will not have it and all these VAX   > Customers will go elsewhere.  K Mark Gorham says he has gotten requests from VAX customers _not_ to provide L formal support for triple-architecture clusters, because those VAX customersI want a way to force their management to upgrade all the VAXen to Alpha or  IAF.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:41:18 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a& Message-ID: <3E0B231E.4060802@Free.fr>   interesting feedback. 
 Thanks Larry.    D.   Larry Kilgallen a crit:_ > In article <3E0B1AA3.5070408@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:  > 0 >>http://www.mgtinsight.com/studies/aim/ovms.htm >>C >>Please fill in and click "I want mixed VAX/ALPHA/Itanium Cluster  K >>capability" in question E12a, or "we" will not have it and all these VAX   >>Customers will go elsewhere. >  > M > Mark Gorham says he has gotten requests from VAX customers _not_ to provide N > formal support for triple-architecture clusters, because those VAX customersK > want a way to force their management to upgrade all the VAXen to Alpha or  > IAF.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:41:22 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a' Message-ID: <3E0B3132.6F3FDE1C@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > _ > In article <3E0B1AA3.5070408@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: 2 > > http://www.mgtinsight.com/studies/aim/ovms.htm > > D > > Please fill in and click "I want mixed VAX/ALPHA/Itanium ClusterL > > capability" in question E12a, or "we" will not have it and all these VAX  > > Customers will go elsewhere. > M > Mark Gorham says he has gotten requests from VAX customers _not_ to provide N > formal support for triple-architecture clusters, because those VAX customersK > want a way to force their management to upgrade all the VAXen to Alpha or  > IAF.  A The operative keyword there may be "formal". "YOYO" support might E suffice during the transition stages, but yes - we need some leverage ? that can be used to influence upgrade decisions, where such are 	 feasible.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 10:52:50 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a3 Message-ID: <TDHLaJ6iCw6H@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3E0B3132.6F3FDE1C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  ` >> In article <3E0B1AA3.5070408@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:3 >> > http://www.mgtinsight.com/studies/aim/ovms.htm  >> >E >> > Please fill in and click "I want mixed VAX/ALPHA/Itanium Cluster M >> > capability" in question E12a, or "we" will not have it and all these VAX ! >> > Customers will go elsewhere.  >>  N >> Mark Gorham says he has gotten requests from VAX customers _not_ to provideO >> formal support for triple-architecture clusters, because those VAX customers L >> want a way to force their management to upgrade all the VAXen to Alpha or >> IAF.  > C > The operative keyword there may be "formal". "YOYO" support might G > suffice during the transition stages, but yes - we need some leverage A > that can be used to influence upgrade decisions, where such are  > feasible.   I Certainly the usual statements are being made about no code being changed E to prevent it from working and the same codebase will support several F versions of dual-architecture clusters.  They _can_ save some money byC not formally testing triple architecture clusters (it is not just a C matter of throwing a VAX in, they need to try the various models of ) VAX and the various interconnects, etc.).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:36:14 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>@ Subject: RE: A NEW SOURCING FOR YOUR ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS NEEDS0 Message-ID: <01C2ACCA.A2B7C900@sulfer.icius.com>  G I've just reported this spammer to what appears to be his ISP; rain.fr. D Their abuse addresses are abuse@rain.fr and postmaster@rain.fr. I'veF been doing this for a while, but it just occurred to me that if I tellH people I'm doing it that might discourage at least some of them. I'll beG posting whatever official abuse addresses I can dig up, if anyone wants  to send "me too"s.    D I don't report adverts from group regulars or on-topic adverts, likeF Dave's Island Computers stuff, or the software plugs we've been seeing/ recently. It's only the blatant spam I attack.     Shane    -----Original Message-----2 From: forum@icbuyer.com [mailto:forum@icbuyer.com]* Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 2:01 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < Subject: A NEW SOURCING FOR YOUR ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS NEEDS    > Enter into the new era of electronic components industry while" becoming an http://www.icbuyer.com    D ICBUYER enables all the electronic components industry professionalsD to: diffuse inventories, offers and requests, to consult the largest> and up-to-date available electronic components data worldwide,E indexing the largest brands as well as millions of active and passive = components, semiconductors, integrated circuits, transistors, = memories, micro-processors, chips, condensators, resistances, - commutators, relays, connectors, and so on ??   D With more than 8.000 members, and more than de 20.000 visits per dayC on its site, ICBUYER makes it possible for its members to carry out ( several million dollars of transactions.  D ICBUYER has already 4 offices: PARIS, LOS ANGELES, LONDON and OSAKA.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:43:53 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>@ Subject: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)* Message-ID: <00A1905C.87718DF1.5@decus.de>  * "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:  J > The same thing happened to me while using TCPware 5.x and OpenVMS-7.2 onO > Alpha. I found some cool (free) online tools to help me close the relay. I've * > posted those links at the following URL: > 7 > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/stop-spam.html  >  > [...]   F Starting at http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/ there is a "CompaqC memorial Site" which includes some links to www.alphapowered.com -- D this site obviously doesn't exist any longer and connection requests? are redirected to http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ 9 which praises Itanium excessively (no surprise at all :-)   D By the way: Does anybody know of a "second source" for the documentsD which used to be at the AlphaPowered site? (Alpha 21364 information, Alpha/Itanium comparison, ...)   Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:44:49 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)9 Message-ID: <TtFO9.2554$Yo5.567149@news20.bellglobal.com>   M Most Alpha specs (many in PDF format) seemed to have disappeared since Compaq N washed their hands of future Alpha development. Many of them used to be at theM Compaq web site and I wished I would have downloaded them for posterity. (one N in particular compared EV7 to Itanium). These links may help you until someone- steps forward with a cache of the real thing.   8 http://h18002.www1.hp.com/hps/download/Compaq_EV7_Wp.pdf& http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/L http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#alpha_chip_head_links  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/   1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message $ news:00A1905C.87718DF1.5@decus.de... [ snip ]H > Starting at http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/ there is a "CompaqE > memorial Site" which includes some links to www.alphapowered.com -- F > this site obviously doesn't exist any longer and connection requestsA > are redirected to http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ ; > which praises Itanium excessively (no surprise at all :-)  > F > By the way: Does anybody know of a "second source" for the documentsF > which used to be at the AlphaPowered site? (Alpha 21364 information,  > Alpha/Itanium comparison, ...) > 	 > Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:51:00 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)9 Message-ID: <HzFO9.2558$Yo5.568157@news20.bellglobal.com>   1 "Michael Unger" <unger@decus.de> wrote in message $ news:00A1905C.87718DF1.5@decus.de... [ snip ]H > Starting at http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/ there is a "CompaqE > memorial Site" which includes some links to www.alphapowered.com -- F > this site obviously doesn't exist any longer and connection requestsA > are redirected to http://h18003.www1.hp.com/hps/ipf-enterprise/ ; > which praises Itanium excessively (no surprise at all :-)  > F > By the way: Does anybody know of a "second source" for the documentsF > which used to be at the AlphaPowered site? (Alpha 21364 information,  > Alpha/Itanium comparison, ...) > 	 > Michael    Here's a few more links:  N http://www.support.compaq.com/alpha-tools/documentation/current/chip-docs.html8 http://www.support.compaq.com/alpha-tools/documentation/  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 16:18:07 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)5 Message-ID: <20021226161807.7182.qmail@nym.alias.net>   ? On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote: N >Most Alpha specs (many in PDF format) seemed to have disappeared since CompaqO >washed their hands of future Alpha development. Many of them used to be at the N >Compaq web site and I wished I would have downloaded them for posterity. (oneO >in particular compared EV7 to Itanium). These links may help you until someone . >steps forward with a cache of the real thing. > 9 >http://h18002.www1.hp.com/hps/download/Compaq_EV7_Wp.pdf ' >http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/ M >http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#alpha_chip_head_links   J If you have bookmark URLs for any documents, you can try feeding them intoK the WayBack Machine at http://www.archive.org. I believe PDF documents will  have been archived.      Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:19:42 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: DECserver 200/MC / Message-ID: <3E0A4B01.A8AF2811@vl.videotron.ca>    Vandijck Andy wrote:( > Local -941- Transceiver loopback error& > Local -942- Image load not attempted  K If you have an ethernet analyser (if not, look for ETHERMON on the freeware F CD), then you should look at the LAN to see if the decserver sends out ANYTHING when it is powered up.   N The transceiver is the first gizmo on the cable after the decserver. It can beN either directly attached on the AUI port (the ethernet port on the Decserver),O or it could be under the floor with a thick cable between it and the decserver.   ) It is possible the transceiver is broken.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:54:48 +0100 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: DECserver 200/MC 5 Message-ID: <aueqme$6m5vh$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   7 "Vandijck Andy" <fa334583@skynet.be> schreef in bericht 0 news:3e0a0f9a$0$90216$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...+ > I have a problem with my DECserver 200/MC ) > at boot it gives the following message: I > Local -901- Initializing DECserver "08-00-2B-09-A9-C1" -- ROM BL20, H/W  Rev  > F.C ( > Local -941- Transceiver loopback error& > Local -942- Image load not attempted; > Local -950- Troubleshooting procedures should be followed 2 > What can i do that it loads its image and boots?. > help wanted on this part (mail is preferred) > TIA  > Andy >  >  Andy,   K if you happen to have a DESTA or another small transceiver then put that on L the AUI port. Connect that transceiver to your network and reboot the DS200.H If it boots then your original transceiver is broken, or the transceiverI cable (if there was one in the first place). OTOH if the DS200 fails with K the same error message then either your second transceiver is broken too or * the AUI logic in the DS200 itself is gone.I What kind of a transceiver was the DS200 connected to in the first place?    Hans   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Dec 2002 14:58:22 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: DECserver 200/MC 5 Message-ID: <auf5ee$6p5ec$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   / In article <3E0A4B01.A8AF2811@vl.videotron.ca>, 3 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  > Vandijck Andy wrote:) >> Local -941- Transceiver loopback error ' >> Local -942- Image load not attempted  > M > If you have an ethernet analyser (if not, look for ETHERMON on the freeware H > CD), then you should look at the LAN to see if the decserver sends out! > ANYTHING when it is powered up.   A If he's getting a Transceiver loopback error it is unlikely he is B sending anything on the network.  I would try another transciever.@ Or, for testing purposes, one of those AUI Dummy Plugs from DEC,4 just to be sure it's not a problem inthe box itself.   > P > The transceiver is the first gizmo on the cable after the decserver. It can beP > either directly attached on the AUI port (the ethernet port on the Decserver),Q > or it could be under the floor with a thick cable between it and the decserver.  > + > It is possible the transceiver is broken.   I Or, assuming your second option above, it may have come off or just loose ! on the end of the long AUI cable.   H Speaking of which, anyone here need AUI cables??  I've got a drawer fullI (it's a big drawer!!) that are destined for the dumpster.  Could probably @ even throw in a half dozen 10BaseT transcievers to go with them.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:59:10 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: F$GETDVI ("AVL") in an IF statement/ Message-ID: <3E0A543D.2312537F@vl.videotron.ca>    "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > $ JFAVAIL = 0 ( > $ IF (F$GETDVI("disk","EXISTS") THEN -( >       JFAVAIL = F$GETDVI("disk","AVL") > $ IF (JFAVAIL)  D > Why do you want the same action for the cases of non-existence and > existing but not available?   I Yep.  I only care about drives that can be mounted.  When the workstation N boots into the cluster, if the all mighty microvax II isn't "present", then itN can't mount its disks, but more importantly, it cannot start the queue managerL and the startup is quite different in execution.  (right now, the queue fileK is on the all mighty microvax II, so when the workstation can't access that ) drive, it can't start the queue manager).     " > Are you just trying to mount allB > "mountable" disks without error messages are is there some other9 > motivation? Where do the disk specifications come from?   L In the past, the workstation was icing on the cake and wasn't so important, N but I have started to spread the load amongst both VELO (mvII) and BIKE (3100)N and I want to develop the startup procedures to be more robust no matter which boots first.  K The goal is to have lights-out capabilities so that if i go away for a long ? time, I can still rely on the services I need from my machines.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:23:56 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: RE: First Hammer performance test0 Message-ID: <01C2ACC0.8D06DA10@sulfer.icius.com>  6 From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]   >>' [snippage about AMD hammer performance]  >> > @ >and I am waiting to see what lawsuits hp files againset amd ...> >some alpha people are there and most likely stole alpha stuffA >just like intel did, only Palmer was paid off to let them do it, ? >but Carly will be different ... hp should collect some hefty $  >for patent violations ...  @ I have a vague memory of hearing that the Hammer uses some AlphaE technology that AMD licensed /before/ the death of Alpha. I think the A on-chip memory control was part of it, but since I can't find the G reference this should be taken with a healthy pinch of salt. (I've been E told there's two ways to spot a genius: First, he has a bad memory. I ! can't remember the other... ;-) )    Shane    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:33:42 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>* Subject: RE: First Hammer performance test0 Message-ID: <01C2ACC2.049769E0@sulfer.icius.com>  
        Rob  +     Do you ever proof read before you post?                          Shane    ;-P    -----Original Message-----) From: rob kas [mailto:rob@netcarrier.net] ( Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 8:59 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * Subject: Re: First Hammer performance test    
        Bob  &    Do you every think before you post?                         Rob  "  > A > and I am waiting to see what lawsuits hp files againset amd ... ? > some alpha people are there and most likely stole alpha stuff B > just like intel did, only Palmer was paid off to let them do it,@ > but Carly will be different ... hp should collect some hefty $ > for patent violations ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:28:44 +0100 4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>8 Subject: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center& Message-ID: <3E0B121C.6070003@Free.fr>  9 http://www.hpintelco.com/pdf/HPIntelSolCenter_Itanium.pdf   F Where is OpenVMS mentioned in this document? My Acrobat Reader SEARCH  function does not work.    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 06:47:29 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> < Subject: RE: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEOMGEAA.tom@kednos.com>   , The only mention of any OS was on slide 10, ' "Support all offered Operating Systems"    >-----Original Message----- < >From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr]* >Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 6:29 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 >Subject: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center  >  > : >http://www.hpintelco.com/pdf/HPIntelSolCenter_Itanium.pdf > G >Where is OpenVMS mentioned in this document? My Acrobat Reader SEARCH   >function does not work. >  >D.  >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). B >Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 09:21:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: RE: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center3 Message-ID: <LZJa883ETM3D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEOMGEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: . > The only mention of any OS was on slide 10, ) > "Support all offered Operating Systems"  >  >>-----Original Message-----= >>From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr] + >>Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 6:29 AM  >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : >>Subject: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center >> >>; >>http://www.hpintelco.com/pdf/HPIntelSolCenter_Itanium.pdf  >>H >>Where is OpenVMS mentioned in this document? My Acrobat Reader SEARCH  >>function does not work.   F Page 5 mentions Linux, Windows and HP-UX, all of which I believe to beH released for "production" use on IAF.  VMS is more than a year away from such status.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 08:37:00 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>< Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center/ Message-ID: <v0mc0uq058sm7f@corp.supernews.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:a > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEOMGEAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  > . >>The only mention of any OS was on slide 10, ) >>"Support all offered Operating Systems"  >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr], >>>Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 6:29 AM >>>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com; >>>Subject: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center  >>>  >>> < >>>http://www.hpintelco.com/pdf/HPIntelSolCenter_Itanium.pdf >>> I >>>Where is OpenVMS mentioned in this document? My Acrobat Reader SEARCH   >>>function does not work. >  > H > Page 5 mentions Linux, Windows and HP-UX, all of which I believe to beJ > released for "production" use on IAF.  VMS is more than a year away from > such status.  * Windows has not yet been released for IPF. --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:41:29 -0800  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 4 Message-ID: <IfzO9.15931$kq6.256548@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote in message 6 news:c5cf6e8.0212241446.4a3d9a4b@posting.google.com...B > The more I learn about OpenVMS the more I see that the statement1 > "OpenVMS is easier than UNIX" is just not true.  > " > I mean come on which is simpler: > F > $ DELETE dev:[dir.subdir...]*.*;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,[dir]subdir.dir; >  > or > 
 > $ rm -r dir   3 Ever seen a newbie trying to figure out how to exit & [or whatever the term may be] from vi?  0 (And yes, I know I'm feeding a troll, of course,8 but it seemed like a curious enough troll to feed ... :)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:56:54 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 0 Message-ID: <00A19045.358B78F7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <3E09EDC3.B7C97862@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:) >> ************************************** ) >> *  WARNING!  WARNING!  TROLL ALERT!  * ) >> *                                    * ) >> *  PLEASE!  DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!  * ) >> **************************************  > M >Oh come one, wherte's your Christmas spirit ? Those poor trolls do need some T >feeding now and then. The internet wouldn't be the internet if Trolls were extinct. > N >As long as they are not declared a protected species, we can abuse them as weK >wish. So keeping them just healthy enough to prevent them being declared a ' >endangerd species is to our advantage.   I But trolls may endanger the species of comp.os.vms!  There's already one  G effort afoot to cage up comp.os.vms to keep out the undesireable noise.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   Date: 26 Dec 2002 14:51:38 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <auf51p$6p5ec$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   ' In article <3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>, 4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >  > 3 > $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav  >   J Using the BACKUP command to delete files.  Now that's intuitively obvious.= And I'll bet well documented inthe HELP command too.      :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:22:47 +0000 (UTC) " From: "matt" <matt987@hotmail.com>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 1 Message-ID: <aufdt7$8g7$1@knossos.btinternet.com>    At least with VMS you can't do:        rm *.tmp  - and fumble the '.' key and accidentally type:        rm *>tmp  J like I did once !  Similaly it'd be a bugger if you typed 'rm -r' when youB meant 'rm -f'.  Fortunately the DELETE command on VMS has a lot ofI safeguards built in, which makes it easier for dunderheads like me to use  :-)    Matt.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:50:52 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 0 Message-ID: <00A19065.E54D3E50@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <auf51p$6p5ec$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:( >In article <3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>,5 >	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  >>   >>  4 >> $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav >>   > K >Using the BACKUP command to delete files.  Now that's intuitively obvious. > >And I'll bet well documented inthe HELP command too.      :-)  " Nearly as intuitive as "rm -r dir"   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:26:10 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com> Subject: RE: Link errors. 0 Message-ID: <01C2ACC0.DA217800@sulfer.icius.com>  D Did you compile with the qualifier /PREFIX=ALL? If not, I think that might fix your problem.    Shane    -----Original Message-----5 From: Lyndon Bartels [mailto:lbartels@pressenter.com] ' Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 8:30 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Link errors.      Alpha VMS 7.3-1, (Latest ECOs.)  CC 6.5      5 On my port of PostgreSQL.... I'm getting link errors:   = %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol DECC$GXSNPRINTF referenced 3 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol ERRNO referenced     2 I included the seemingly appropriate header files.  % I feel like I'm missing something....        Thanks in advance,   Lyndon     --  G My opinions are mine and mine alone. They seldom align with those of my 	 employer.     H The only good thing about putting the cart before the horse is you don't have to look at the horse's butt.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:48:06 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ... 0 Message-ID: <00A19043.FB2C7E06@SendSpamHere.ORG>  U In article <H7oywH.Eo@world.std.com>, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes: 1 >In article <00A18F82.73780714@SendSpamHere.ORG>, $ > <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:8 >> In article <3E099D57.F661CE5@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi* >> <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes: > . >> > Tou you too and to all the group as well.O >> > Over here, it's merely Pippin Christmas due to the availability of the Two . >> > Towers on the European Cinema screens :-) >>   >> ????????? > E >You know... _Lord of the Rings_--Merry, *Pippin*, Sam, etc.--they're E >hobbits.  The second film of the trilogy has opened in theaters this  >month.   G OK.  I don't go to the movies.  I think, IIRC, the last film I actually G viewed in a theater was 2010, so I don't pay too much attention to what  is playing now.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:54:32 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>/ Subject: RE: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ... 0 Message-ID: <01C2ACC4.F3D0A560@sulfer.icius.com>  H Watch out for the next Matrix movie if CGI is your bag. They have workedF out how to blend CGI and live action so they are effectively animating with live-shot frames.=20   H They decided there was only one way to avoid being imitated so much thisH time round; throw so much money at it nobody can afford to rip them off.F What I've seen so far is damn impressive. There's a scene in a freewayH chase where a Mr. Smith jumps on a car and crushes it that'll just knock your socks off.    Shane    -----Original Message-----; From: Didier Morandi [mailto:Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr] * Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 1:13 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com / Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...     F yep. Just back from it. Amazing piece of production. Smeagol-Gollum is just... : fantastic. All virtual reality, but so real on the screen.   To be seen absolutely.  F Also, for those of you who like Umberto Eco (The Name of the Rose, theH Foucault's Pendule, etc.) please read his last one: "Bandolino". A must.   D.   Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: >=202 > In article <00A18F82.73780714@SendSpamHere.ORG>,% >  <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote:d9 > > In article <3E099D57.F661CE5@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi>+ > > <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> writes:a >=20/ > > > Tou you too and to all the group as well.sJ > > > Over here, it's merely Pippin Christmas due to the availability of = thev Twoe/ > > > Towers on the European Cinema screens :-)e > >w
 > > ?????????e >=20F > You know... _Lord of the Rings_--Merry, *Pippin*, Sam, etc.--they'reF > hobbits.  The second film of the trilogy has opened in theaters this > month. >=20	 > -brian.  > --H > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----D >        "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."7 >               -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943t   --=20g3   -------------------------------------------------i3 MORANDI Consultants - http://Didier.Morandi.Free.frp0   19 chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.3 Tel.: +33 (0)6 7983 6418 - Fax : +33 (0)5 6154 1928r3 OpenVMS, APPLE, Computer Security, Migration plans. 3 ---------------------------------------------------c7 Anti-publicit=E9 : enlever ".nospam" pour me r=E9pondre    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:47:18 -0400l0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...d/ Message-ID: <3E0B40A5.C6D6FF77@vl.videotron.ca>l  ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: I > OK.  I don't go to the movies.  I think, IIRC, the last film I actually   > viewed in a theater was 2010,   M Wow, your view of the world is outdated big time... :-) Did you know that PansK Am no longer exists (except a different small carrier using the same name),0F the Soviet Union no longer exists. There are no Soviet-USA tensions inQ Honduras.  Russians and Americans share a space station along with other nations.i    M You definitely need to go out and see a documentary in the theatres to  bring,3 you up to speed with current events :-) ;-) :-) :-)A    J One thing though. Authorities have been extremely succesful at keeping theL monolith a total secret. Haven't heard a thing about it in 2001. Nor have weH heard about the mission to Jupiter. Of course, IBM, knowing its HAL-9000J computer would end up killing a crew, decided never to release/market thatA product which explains why we haven't seen ads for it. Of course,tM marketing-inept Digital did try a 9000 model, but it flopped big time becausel4 customers feared what a 9000 could do to humans. :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 10:40:30 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>s4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker6 Message-ID: <20021226104030.15660.qmail@nym.alias.net>  E On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net (Jean-loup Gailly)a wrote:  E >I have also added on http://gailly.net/security/john-VMS-readme.htmle >oO >    Disclaimer: John the Ripper should not be used against machines you do notoO >    own or administer, or have prior permission to run password cracking toolsaO >    against. Even if you are a system administrator, you should ask permission- >    from your management.  = Of course, your management may not be happy with the results.c  G One of the group regulars who wishes to remain anonymous emailed me the.I results from their run of John against the SYSUAF from a large production  system.   G The SYSUAF contained over 1,000 users. Within 1 hour, almost 25% of theiI passwords had been cracked, after 3 days this had risen to nearly 50%. NosI VMS privileged accounts were compromised, but accounts that had access tomF accounts receivable, payable, and sales order processing were cracked.  K Mr Anonymous also offered some advice on improving this. Apparently there'smJ a VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY on one of the Freeware CDs. Installed as-is it wouldG have denied selection of about 1/3 of the passwords cracked by John. IffI modified to take the user's choice of password, strip numbers and retest,eJ plus beef up the dictionary, then virtually every password cracked by John would have been rejected.r     Doc. -- h: Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.nett   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Dec 02 12:26:25 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture)o4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker) Message-ID: <xlpl4xF5ijzU@elias.decus.ch>r  v In article <20021226104030.15660.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:G > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, jloup@gailly.OmitThisWord.net (Jean-loup Gailly)  > wrote: > F >>I have also added on http://gailly.net/security/john-VMS-readme.html >>P >>    Disclaimer: John the Ripper should not be used against machines you do notP >>    own or administer, or have prior permission to run password cracking toolsP >>    against. Even if you are a system administrator, you should ask permission >>    from your management.- > ? > Of course, your management may not be happy with the results.  >i  E If in doubt, ask your security department for permission _in writing_oB before you attempt this. It's probably not a bad idea to have them present as witnesses too.p  HI > One of the group regulars who wishes to remain anonymous emailed me the?K > results from their run of John against the SYSUAF from a large production-	 > system.- > I > The SYSUAF contained over 1,000 users. Within 1 hour, almost 25% of themK > passwords had been cracked, after 3 days this had risen to nearly 50%. No K > VMS privileged accounts were compromised, but accounts that had access towH > accounts receivable, payable, and sales order processing were cracked. > M > Mr Anonymous also offered some advice on improving this. Apparently there'snL > a VMS$PASSWORD_POLICY on one of the Freeware CDs. Installed as-is it wouldI > have denied selection of about 1/3 of the passwords cracked by John. IfeK > modified to take the user's choice of password, strip numbers and retest,tL > plus beef up the dictionary, then virtually every password cracked by John > would have been rejected.e >   > It's on the Freeware V4 disk 2, in directory [PASSWORD_POLICY]  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/PASSWORD_POLICY/   -- 0
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 09:14:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)b4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker3 Message-ID: <BXKnAqLXDwGf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <xlpl4xF5ijzU@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:m  G > If in doubt, ask your security department for permission _in writing_ D > before you attempt this. It's probably not a bad idea to have them > present as witnesses too.   K In my view, your security or audit department should be the ones conductingSJ any tests, to provide separation of duties between those who implement VMS> security and those who check to see whether it was done right.  C That is, if the security department modifies SYSUAF, then the audito/ department should be doing the review function.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:05:22 +0100m" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Query 5 Message-ID: <aueraf$6ma9q$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>   7 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@vl.videotron.ca> schreef in berichtI) news:3E092B92.E605438B@vl.videotron.ca...h > Hans Vlems wrote:-B > > I guess that the next VMS release will show the HP logo on the
 DECWindowsG > > screen and HP copyright notices in the appropriate system messages.e >  >tL > I would hope that the engineers would by now have added #define statements fornJ > the owner and  product name so that all the constant changes/renames can be1 > done quickly without costing a gazillion bucks.s > 0 Probably isolated in SYS$LIBRARY:VMS_OWNER.H :-)  J > We all know that VMS will eventually drop the silent "Open". And we have no< > idea who will be the owner of VMS 2-3 years down the road.  H Nobody I know uses the name openVMS. In fact the few times that the nameL openVMS pops up in conversation it is used by persons that have no knowledge about computers.  G Right, VMS ownership might change again in the future. But what companyeJ would desire that? Don't mention IBM, they will kill VMS overnight to gainC marketshare, especially the financial segment like stock exchanges.iG There aren't that many computer companies left, just a lot of Intel/AMDd clone copiers.   Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 09:15:30 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)0# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Queryt3 Message-ID: <ZMuiQE1IXHDl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <aueraf$6ma9q$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:  J > Nobody I know uses the name openVMS. In fact the few times that the nameN > openVMS pops up in conversation it is used by persons that have no knowledge > about computers.  < That is why "Open" is useful, to sort out the inexperienced.< I have heard of headhunters looking for someone with OpenVMS& experience rather than VMS experience.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:36:28 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Querya/ Message-ID: <3E0B3E1B.6516263A@vl.videotron.ca>-   Hans Vlems wrote: I > Right, VMS ownership might change again in the future. But what company L > would desire that? Don't mention IBM, they will kill VMS overnight to gainE > marketshare, especially the financial segment like stock exchanges.i  N Au contraire. I think that *IF* IBM were to acquire VMS, they would do so withL full knowledge of the past mistakes done on VMS and it would buy VMS becauseK it would see the potential to make lots of money simply by fixing its imageO (and dropping the silly open).  M IBM would be aware that customers need a trustable vendor who really does putoM its money where its mouth is and doesn't just do empty promises that VMS wille be taken seriously.x  G Of course, IBM would port VMS to Power which would give VMS a huge edgebK against HP-UX and Tandem which will be stuck on the failing IA64. VMS couldiL then also so battel against Tandem. And I suspect that the "VAX-FT" might beK resurected on Power. As long as VMS is owned by the same company as Tandem,e= VMS won't really get much more "fault tolerance" added to it.m  J Note that I emphasised the *IF*.  IBM is not the type of company that doesI things halfway. If they decide to bu VMS, it is because they intend to do-I something with it. They would know that buying VMS just for the customers.L would not work because customers would be very angry if the new owner didn't take good care of their VMS.  M Right now, IBM might stand to gain more by letting HP stumble since acquiring"= the VMS customers who would not trust HP would be quite easy.d  J It would be strange hower to think of Sue as an IBM employee, and receicve+ marketing material with the IBM logo on it.b    L Come to think of it, it would have made sense for Compaq to have been brokenK up. The ex-Digital part (which HP isn't doing much with) would have gone tot< IBM while the Compaq and Tandem parts would have gone to HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:37:42 -0600l1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a Subject: Re: Spamtrap:' Message-ID: <3E0B3055.20291391@fsi.net>@   Tom Linden wrote:: > [snip]0 > What would be useful is, if someone could listE > the domain names of these ip's it is a bit tedious to do it by hand*; > obviously; since, that is a lot harder to change than ip.   D Using EDT, it should be fairly easy to convert your list if IPs to a0 list if addresses that could be fed to NSLOOKUP.   -- m David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsb http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:15:34 +0100p4 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr>( Subject: swap IDE CD-ROM drive with SCSI& Message-ID: <3E0B1D16.8050208@Free.fr>  G I recently realized that my PWS 600au still has its genuine IDE CD-ROM iF drive, which prevents me to boot VMS from it. I purchased a used SCSI D drive (ref Toshiba XM 5401B) with a "mode select" microswitch. What 4 params should I change to make it work fine, please?   Tx,i   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 18:02:42 -0800c& From: faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au>Y Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa!  Is Sun aT8 Message-ID: <j4dn0vgbotc8p8mj2hd5kr09l7o91j0k1g@4ax.com>  <  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> ,  emitted these
 fragments:     N >Is it possible that while existing FABs still run VMS, that Intel has decidedK >on another platform that will run any new or upgraded fab plant later on ?iO >That might explain Intel still sending people to VMS functions, as well as theh$ >rumours of Intel having dumped VMS.  C But that does not explain all the sightings of VMS boxes being solde$ with Intel asset tags still on them.  8 --------------------------------------------------------	 Come see,. real flowers of this pain-filled world.   (from Basho)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:44:12 -0800n& From: faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au>Y Subject: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming'8 Message-ID: <1eqm0vo0qg534ool2b7ng1vfl5f3aprcs0@4ax.com>  A  winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptgw! Mgr") ,  emitted these fragments:h  I >>So I guess it should be possible to have a reliable secure OS along the N >>likes of VMS on Intel. As some one pointed out, I guess porting VMS to IntelF >>is difficult since BLISS, MACRO compilers need to be written first.  >rM >I don't think the existence of QNX (about which I've only heard good things,RK >incidentally, and which has had what seems like very sensible pricing for CM >a long time) tells us anything about the possibility of porting VMS to IA32.@  1 No, but it tells us that there are other options.1/ Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town.n  B What do you think all the Intel fabs are moving to , now that they have dumped VMS ?e  8 --------------------------------------------------------	 Come see,> real flowers of this pain-filled world.   (from Basho)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:06:05 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")Y Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiw6 Message-ID: <00A1900B.CF9F483B@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  a In article <1eqm0vo0qg534ool2b7ng1vfl5f3aprcs0@4ax.com>, faust <urfaust@optushome.com.au> writes:(B > winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg" >Mgr") ,  emitted these fragments: >-J >>>So I guess it should be possible to have a reliable secure OS along theO >>>likes of VMS on Intel. As some one pointed out, I guess porting VMS to Intel G >>>is difficult since BLISS, MACRO compilers need to be written first. i >>N >>I don't think the existence of QNX (about which I've only heard good things,L >>incidentally, and which has had what seems like very sensible pricing for N >>a long time) tells us anything about the possibility of porting VMS to IA32. >e2 >No, but it tells us that there are other options.0 >Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town. >aC >What do you think all the Intel fabs are moving to , now that theyl >have dumped VMS ?  N I was not aware that they'd dumped VMS, although I'd heard that they'd startedK deacquisitioning VAXes.  I have no information _that_ they're replacing VMSo= with anything, much less with _what_.  Do you know something?M   -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025oO ===============================================================================N   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 20:23:14 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: UTC time in DCL/ Message-ID: <3E0A4BD4.414FB7BF@vl.videotron.ca>S   Howard S Shubs wrote:eG > Eventually, one day = one solar year, as I understand it.  Don't holdR > your breath waiting, though. n  N This may not happen. I read that scientists have found the "end of the world".F It may happen in about 100 million years when 2 giant black holes willL collide, and they predict there will either be a huge explosion or they will suck up the rest of the galaxy.r  L By then, humans will have followed the First Ones beyond the rim, so perhaps we will survive.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 10:07:44 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth5 Message-ID: <20021226100744.5951.qmail@nym.alias.net>L  C On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote:?  F >The deathrow folks seem to have difficulties keeping their site up.  I >At least their website is down now, and I remember them not lasting veryeE >long as they were Slashdotted a month or two ago.  I hadn't realizedsH >they'd attempted to continue after that.  The hobbes fellows have a lotK >better track record, or at least a longer history of running their system,o1 >albeit with some extended outages now and again.g  J The website is reachable just now. There's a warning in the welcome bannerF that they are doing updates to various systems in the office where theH cluster is, but I've never had a period of more than a few hours where IK couldn't reach the system. Last time it was a routing problem, not anythingo to do with the cluster.(  F Website stability has improved since they dropped CSWS and put WASD on their Alpha.  7 FWIW, I count 22 interactive users currently logged in.      Doc. -- c6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net K                                                    http://althacker.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:49:09 GMTn- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth& Message-ID: <H7q3Dx.FC1@world.std.com>  5 In article <20021226100744.5951.qmail@nym.alias.net>,-6 Doc.Cypher  <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:  L > The website is reachable just now. There's a warning in the welcome bannerH > that they are doing updates to various systems in the office where theJ > cluster is, but I've never had a period of more than a few hours where IM > couldn't reach the system. Last time it was a routing problem, not anythingr > to do with the cluster.   C Fair enough--it must be that I'm hitting them at inopportune times.l' I'm able to get to their site fine now.-  H > Website stability has improved since they dropped CSWS and put WASD on > their Alpha. > 9 > FWIW, I count 22 interactive users currently logged in.e  ! That's certainly a positive sign.a   -brian.  -- nF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----J Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 11:22:08 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth6 Message-ID: <20021226112208.16415.qmail@nym.alias.net>  C On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote:t6 >In article <20021226100744.5951.qmail@nym.alias.net>,7 >Doc.Cypher  <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:p  D >Fair enough--it must be that I'm hitting them at inopportune times.( >I'm able to get to their site fine now.  J I'm not going to search their Notes system, but ISTR that they did surviveK Slashdotting, and had a lot of users logged in then. I'd guess that websiter? response probably slowed down so much that people got timeouts.7  : >> FWIW, I count 22 interactive users currently logged in. >t" >That's certainly a positive sign.  I Well, a lot of those are just people using IRC, but there are people likeA/ Jean-Loup Gailly making real use of the system.a  J There are plans to add another node to the cluster - a PC running the simhI emulator. Again, you'd need to dig through their Notes system to find out_0 what underlying version of *ix they'll be using.  I Anyone who is interested can log in with the DEMO account and take a looke round.     Doc. --  : Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...K ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:29:58 +0100-* From: Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth/ Message-ID: <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>d  5 According to Brian 'Jarai' Chase <bdc@world.std.com>:/4 >In article <3e0f265c.7463269@news.btopenworld.com>,' > <greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk> wrote:r > I >> I dunno what a VAX 6K is, but I can only assume it's some old, classic B >> computer, and it's being run for sortof nostalgia and enjoyment8 >> reasons, not as a commercial server for some purpose.  @ The VAX was DEC's attempt to repeat the success of the '11, withD a 32-bit SuperCISC architecture. Ran a weird operating system calledJ VMS, as well as Unix in variuos flavors. Could make impressive performance for its CISCyness.  H >Baaah, kids these days!  GET OFFA MY LAWN!  Or I'll smash ya flat as a  >pancake with my VAX 6000! >i9 ><http://world.std.com/~bdc/pics/vax6000/0406_001-sm.jpg>r  A Of course, performance + complexity means lots of mass and use of  energy.o  F >> Even if, technically, he could run it on a PC with an emulator, I'mB >> sure there's lots of pleasure in knowing your bytes are runningE >> through some old transistors or something. Actually there probablye; >> aren't any transistorised computers than can run Telnet,c >> unfortunately.1 >sG >Well, certainly non-microprocesor based systems like VAX 11/780, some gK >of the PDP-11s, and the PDP-10s come to mind as being able to run services<
 >like Telnet.n  J I am not too well versed in PDP10s predating the KL and Tops20 version 3A;J but I believe the KA10 would run versions of Tops10 that supported telnet.B The KA10 is most certainly a transistor (and diode!) construction.   -- mrr   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 26 Dec 02 12:27:27 GMTs From: jmfbahciv@aol.com & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <aueufs$dik$1@bob.news.rcn.net>s  / In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,r.    Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:6 >According to Brian 'Jarai' Chase <bdc@world.std.com>:5 >>In article <3e0f265c.7463269@news.btopenworld.com>,s( >> <greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>J >>> I dunno what a VAX 6K is, but I can only assume it's some old, classicC >>> computer, and it's being run for sortof nostalgia and enjoyment 9 >>> reasons, not as a commercial server for some purpose.e >e= >The VAX was DEC's attempt to repeat the success of the '11,    @ This is news to me.  Where did you get this idea?  My impression< and my recall (which is very faulty lately) is that the guys= doing the VAX architecture were trying to create something son7 that string manipulations didn't have to be done in the ; microcode.  Jud Leonard went to making a VAX straight from m making the KL.  : Lynn may be able to comment here, but I had the impression8 that dealing with strings was all the rage in computing 7 community and that IBM was ahead of us in this respect.S< At that time, getting seriously into the commercial business was a goal of DEC's.   /BAH   <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.l   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 26 Dec 02 12:32:12 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.comc& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <aueuoq$dik$2@bob.news.rcn.net>e  D In article <aueufs$dik$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:0 >In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,/ >   Morten Reistad <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:a7 >>According to Brian 'Jarai' Chase <bdc@world.std.com>:o6 >>>In article <3e0f265c.7463269@news.btopenworld.com>,) >>> <greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk> wrote:X >>>SK >>>> I dunno what a VAX 6K is, but I can only assume it's some old, classicnD >>>> computer, and it's being run for sortof nostalgia and enjoyment: >>>> reasons, not as a commercial server for some purpose. >>> >>The VAX was DEC's attempt to repeat the success of the '11,  >rA >This is news to me.  Where did you get this idea?  My impressione= >and my recall (which is very faulty lately) is that the guys > >doing the VAX architecture were trying to create something so8 >that string manipulations didn't have to be done in the< >microcode.  Jud Leonard went to making a VAX straight from  >making the KL.r >a; >Lynn may be able to comment here, but I had the impressione9 >that dealing with strings was all the rage in computing b8 >community and that IBM was ahead of us in this respect.= >At that time, getting seriously into the commercial businessN >was a goal of DEC's..  A Sorry, Lynn.  You'll need a date here.  I'd say KL was about 1976 E so the development was 1974 or '75.  Jud gave us the VAX architectureNB seminar (I think) in 1978...maybe 1977.  I don't know if the breadE board had been used then.  I would suspect so because there were onlya, two or three instructions that Jud caveated.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:52:43 -0000 $ From: "David Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth4 Message-ID: <auf1jc$6nooh$1@ID-40235.news.dfncis.de>  : "Brian 'Jarai' Chase" <bdc@world.std.com> wrote in message  news:H7pEME.FGz@world.std.com...> > In article <180adbe.0212251137.2ec90e0a@posting.google.com>,& > Anamika <hemanir@netzero.com> wrote: >hF > > One might as well shut down the free service if there are not many1 > > patrons. There are other free VMS accounts ato http//deathrow.vistech.net,f! > > http://hobbesthevax.com etc.,a > > Just a thought.t >(E > The deathrow folks seem to have difficulties keeping their site up. J > At least their website is down now, and I remember them not lasting veryF > long as they were Slashdotted a month or two ago.  I hadn't realizedI > they'd attempted to continue after that.  The hobbes fellows have a lotnL > better track record, or at least a longer history of running their system,2 > albeit with some extended outages now and again. >eJ > I quite like the idea of a sizeable VAX 6000 being available on the net.I > You can support thousands of users on one of these; probably with a fewrK > hundred people logged in simultaneously.  If *enough* people were to makehJ > use of these systems, the donations required by each of them to keep theJ > system(s) running would be quite small.  A hundred users would only haveI > to pay ~$1US/month, two hundred users would have to pay ~$0.50US/month.e >/  J Why not have anual accounts at say $10 or $20 dollars a year. That way youK would get some cash in the bank to start with, and be much easier to managed than monthly payments...    J > Since the holidays are upon us, they're getting $100US from me.  I can't4 > stand to see a good VAX go to waste, sitting idle! >-	 > -brian.s > --H > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----H >     "Science explains the world, but only art can reconcile us to it."? >            -- The oldest sage, "King Globares and the Sages".y   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:35:36 GMTh1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>l& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth2 Message-ID: <3E0B138C.343A1DF2@firstdbasource.com>   Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote: > 4 > In article <3E0A9066.85EF74BA@firstdbasource.com>,5 > Michael Austin  <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:  > I > > The VAX10000 was an attempt at the "main-frame" market. it was fasteruI > > than the 7000 but was measured in tonage, because it was a monster --n > > very few were sold IIRC. > J > Are you sure that wasn't the VAX 9000?  It was the one that most closely1 > matched the architecture of a mainframe system.tB > <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/archive/vax9000.html> > 1 > The 10000 just seems like a glorified VAX 7000.i > 	 > -brian.r > --H > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----L > Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.  F Duh.. you are correct. it has been way too many years since I actually@ saw one (GE in Lynchburg, VA in 94/95 timeframe? ...and it was a
 screamer...  h   -- / Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:24:39 -0600n1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E0B2D47.3672DD4E@fsi.net>y   Chris Hedley wrote:s > 9 > According to David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:aJ > > Actually, the VAX 7000 series was the "last of the line" for "big" VAX
 > > machines.6 > E > I thought that the VAX 7000 line was the penultimate, and the finalmC > stab at big VAXiness was the VAX 10000... could be wrong, though!h  2 The VAX 10000 actually came out BEFORE the 7000's.  C Many (if not all) of the VAX 7000's could be in-cabinet upgraded to ? Alpha-7000 by swapping the XMI chassis and some other hardware..   -- l David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:29:19 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E0B2E5F.D96B82A6@fsi.net>    David Froble wrote:: > O > The VAX 7000 series and the VAX 10000 series were announced at the same time. Q > One or maybe both were suppost to be upgradable to Alpha, in the same box.  The M > 10000 was to be the top end stuff.  This was right at the time when VAX was-N > declining and Alpha was ascending.  The 10000 never really caught on.  As weP > have seen so many times, given two boxes of similar capability, the lower costR > box will be the winner in sales.  With the VMS cluster capability, and the lowerD > cost of the 7000 series, the 10000 just wasn't an economic winner.  F There's that affordability thing *AGAIN* !!!  If I live to be 100 (notE likely), I don't think we'll ever be able to escape the affordability E trap, though the powers that be will probably still be in denial evenh then...e  S > I didn't, and probably never will, understand the concept of in-cabinet upgrades.v  B Ever worked in a large, crowded datacenter where downtime was only; slightly easier to get than the head of dictatorial tyrant?    -- - David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:33:59 +00003/ From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley)9& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <n1bfua.d82.ln@teabag.cbhnet>   7 According to David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:n4 > The VAX 10000 actually came out BEFORE the 7000's.  < I never could figure out their numbering scheme, even though= I worked there at the time (or maybe it's _because_ it workedt there at the time!)    Chris. --  O "If the world was an orange it would be like much too small, y'know?" Neil, '84l7   Currently playing: Sing-Sing - "The Joy Of Sing-Sing"hN   http://www.chrishedley.com  My stuff, including genealogy, other things, etc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:26:08 -0500o< From: "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth/ Message-ID: <QYGO9.10$Om.36909@news.uswest.net>e  : "Brian 'Jarai' Chase" <bdc@world.std.com> wrote in message  news:H7pEME.FGz@world.std.com...> > In article <180adbe.0212251137.2ec90e0a@posting.google.com>,& > Anamika <hemanir@netzero.com> wrote: >-J > I quite like the idea of a sizeable VAX 6000 being available on the net.I > You can support thousands of users on one of these; probably with a few K > hundred people logged in simultaneously.  If *enough* people were to make J > use of these systems, the donations required by each of them to keep theJ > system(s) running would be quite small.  A hundred users would only haveI > to pay ~$1US/month, two hundred users would have to pay ~$0.50US/month.n    H Yes, but is there really that kind of market out there??? I've got a few olderMF VAXstations than can handle multi-user and the power requirements (andD A/C) is much less. I could put those on the air, and I do have valid compilerL licenses (fortran, basic, C) for those boxes. I did use a VAXstation 4000-60J as the main webserver for over 2 years, and until last Saturday, it workedE perfectly [It was taken down and replaced with a Alpha Server running-J OpenVMS]. I could put the 4000-60 back on the air in 10 minutes and let it# continue to live a productive life.0  L I'm just curious, besides IRC, what could you use the box for (as a customerG who would have telnet/SSH access)? I would love to come up with reasons-L to keep these older VAXs up and running. I don't need to make tons of money,6 just make sure the electric/A-C/bandwidth is paid for.   Carl) (cc at-sign-here carlc dot-goes-here com).   -- ==================== http://www.carlc.com/m  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:32:33 GMTv- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth& Message-ID: <H7qM29.89F@world.std.com>  ' In article <3E0B2D47.3672DD4E@fsi.net>,o0 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  4 > The VAX 10000 actually came out BEFORE the 7000's. > E > Many (if not all) of the VAX 7000's could be in-cabinet upgraded to A > Alpha-7000 by swapping the XMI chassis and some other hardware.   I The VAX 10000 was a contemporary of the VAX 7000.  Both are XMI based andiF were upgradable to Alpha processors.  Maybe you're thinking of the VAX( 9000 which came out a few years earlier?  F See: <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/archive/vax10000.html>   -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----J Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:22:31 -0400i0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth/ Message-ID: <3E0B3AD7.15EC47E2@vl.videotron.ca>-   Dennis Grevenstein wrote: 3 > I really like the feature of the guest account at-: > vax6k.openecs.org. You can log in and see how VMS looks.    J Perhaps it would be worth it for the VMS group to fund that VAX since that: would allow anyone to play with it to get a feel for VMS.   L I know that there are official "test drive" machines available, but they are more "serious".   I We could troll other newsgroups to advertise the availability of this VMSoN machnine so that non-believers could give it a try. That would help bring some visibility back to VMS.   M Of course, such a machine woudl probably require much maintenance since therem is bound to be some abuse.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:45:54 GMTh6 From: Jeffrey Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> Subject: Re: VM web ring & spamS2 Message-ID: <3E0B3FFF.30301@digitalsynergyinc.com>   Michael Austin wrote:s   > , > would you mind sharing that piece of code? >     @ It's at the bottom of the home page at www.digitalsynergyinc.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 09:10:04 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s Subject: Re: VMS ISPs?3 Message-ID: <jLZRMGjrPMFK@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  b In article <3E0A9D27.7000409@StarLet.SPB.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> writes:' >> Yes at DLS, before they dropped VMS.s >   VMS is not dropped by DLS.  J They breached our contract saying they would no longer support web hosting on VMS.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:37:48 +0300 2 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> Subject: Re: VMS ISPs?- Message-ID: <3E0B4C7C.5050102@StarLet.SPB.RU>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:d > In article <3E0A9D27.7000409@StarLet.SPB.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU> writes: > ' >>>Yes at DLS, before they dropped VMS.r >> >>  VMS is not dropped by DLS. >  > L > They breached our contract saying they would no longer support web hosting	 > on VMS., > F   Hmmmm... Sorry for that. Now Apache is running on all cluster nodes.   -- 2 Cheers, Ruslan..D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+=        Mobile: +7 (812) 116-3222/NMT,   8 901 300-0102/IMT-MC B     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU0                  http://starlet.spb.ru/~laishev/   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 07:48:29 -0800* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell)5 Subject: VMS731_ACRTL-V0100 Release notes [complaint]y= Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0212260748.1b5ac9a5@posting.google.com>   C I was going to download the lastest version (1.3.1-5) of the COMPAQe1 JAVA SDK for VMS from here (watch for wrappings):h  E http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/download/jdk_ovms/1.3.1-5/index.html,    3 which, of course, references required patches here:r  N http://h18012.www1.hp.com/java/download/jdk_ovms/1.3.1-5/sdk1.3.1_patches.html  C OK, for VMS 7.3-1, I note that VMS731_ACRTL-V0100 is required.  Theh entry by this patch states:k  F "Previously, in a multithreaded environment, if one thread was doing aB read and a second thread proceeded to close the file descriptor, aF memory corruption could occur. Eventually, this would lead to a random? access violation. This ECO corrects the problem, if the logicalh) DECC$FD_LOCKING is defined to "ENABLED"."h  ? OK, so I download the VMS731_ACRTL-V0100 patch, and can find NOf6 reference to the above paragraph in the release notes.  D So, what's the scoop?  Is this an oversight in the release notes, or did I miss something?i   Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 09:52:23 -0800. From: kuzishchin@yahoo.com (Kirill Kuzishchin)# Subject: Re: Vol Shadowing Questiono= Message-ID: <8cab880b.0212260952.78365f6e@posting.google.com>   E You shoud spend some money to buy hardware and to build at least SCSIc! cluster with some shared storage.e  @ My experience with two nodes-cluster and without shared storage:  D 6 years ago I implemented VMS cluster on two MicroVAX 3100. ProbablyC that configuration is still running on a client site. It looks like( described below.  / MicroVAXes have only local disks, 3 disks each:o  #       NODE1                NODE2   u( -------------------   ------------------) $1$DKA0:    (NODE1)   $2$DKA0:    (NODE2) ) $1$DKA100:  (NODE1)   $2$DKA100:  (NODE2)r* $1$DKA300:  (NODE1)   $2$DKA300:  (NODE2)   D There is no shared storage, no quorum disk. NODE1 has VOTES=1, NODE2D has VOTES=0. The cluster has a system disk and a data disk. They are shadowed across the nodes:  ! DSA0:                     SYSDISKe* $1$DKA0:   (NODE1)       (member of DSA0:)* $2$DKA0:   (NODE2)       (member of DSA0:)  ! DSA1:                    DATADISKr, $1$DKA100: (NODE1)       (member of DSA100:), $2$DKA100: (NODE2)       (member of DSA100:)  C NODE1 boots off its local disk DKA0 and serves as a boot server forc? NODE2. NODE2 boots off the network. For MicroVAX it is probablyhE BOOT=ESA0: (I don't remember exactly), for AlphaServer it will be >>>  SET BOOTDEF_DEV EWA0  F In SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM NODE2 mounts system and data disks adding NODE2's. local disks to DSA0: and DSA1: with full copy.  E Some logic was implemented to prevent the full copy on the data disk.o> NODE1 boots first, starts network and MOP and waits (for 10-15F minutes) in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM for NODE2's disks become available. WhenE MOP is up on NODE1 we boot NODE2 off the network. It boots and startsdF MSCP. NODE1 can mount DSA1: without full copy (if DSA1: was dismounted+ properly during the last cluster shutdown).   ; There is no way to avoid full copy on the system disk DSA1:n/ When full copy is done we have two equal nodes. . Each node has copies of system and data disks.  8 The system disk does not have page and swap files on it.9 Each node has page and swap files on a local disk DKA300:i  @ NODE2 is a satellite. If NODE2 dies NODE1 continues to run using# reduced shadow sets DSA0: and DSA1:n  7 If NODE1 dies we have "quorum lost, blocking activity".MC We need to HALT NODE2 and reboot it using the local system disk and ) NODE1's system root. NODE2 becomes NODE1.@  / You have a choice to set VOTES=1 on both nodes.SB In that case when one node fails and you get "quorum lost" messageE you have to force quorum recalculation on the alive node as described" in system manager's manual:    Ctrl/P >>> D SIRR C >>> CONT   IPC> Q IPC> Ctrl/Zs     That's it. Buy shared storage. c   Kirill.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.714 ************************