1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 715       Contents:' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a  Re: DECserver 200/MC Re: DECserver 200/MC Re: DECserver 200/MC FA: DEC Graphics Tablet 3 Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 RE: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center 3 Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center  Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use?. Managing increasing number of foreign commands2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ... Re: OpenVMS Branding Query# Re: swap IDE CD-ROM drive with SCSI  TCPIP FTP fixing up file namesP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa!  Is Sun aP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun ai Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth 
 Re: VMS ISPs? 
 Re: VMS ISPs?   Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS  Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS  Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS [OT] coffee   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:18:23 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a/ Message-ID: <3E0B47EB.1C5C60CC@vl.videotron.ca>   O > > Mark Gorham says he has gotten requests from VAX customers _not_ to provide P > > formal support for triple-architecture clusters, because those VAX customersM > > want a way to force their management to upgrade all the VAXen to Alpha or  > > IAF.    N I am very surprised and extremely disapointed if Mr Gorham actually said that.N The way i see it,  they (HP) are trying to find reasons NOT to provide support for VAX-VMS.  M You cannot FORCE customers to do anything. You have to make customers WANT to N do something. If you force them to upgrade from vax to alpha and then to IA64,. they will just migrate once to something else.  M And considering that the future of IA64 is more clouded than that of Alpha, I M most certaintly would not bet my business on IA64 right now, not until it has N proven itself commercially and the 64 bit 8086 vs IA64 issue is settled either by Intel or by the market.  M If HP turns out to be the sole serious user of IA64, then why bother going to E IA64 when, by using Carly's logic, HP should be dumping a proprietary < expensive architecture to move to a low cost commodity one ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:58:21 -0700  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>  Subject: Re: DECserver 200/MC & Message-ID: <3E0B5F5D.9070900@srv.net>   Vandijck Andy wrote:+ > I have a problem with my DECserver 200/MC ) > at boot it gives the following message: M > Local -901- Initializing DECserver "08-00-2B-09-A9-C1" -- ROM BL20, H/W Rev  > F.C ( > Local -941- Transceiver loopback error& > Local -942- Image load not attempted; > Local -950- Troubleshooting procedures should be followed 2 > What can i do that it loads its image and boots?. > help wanted on this part (mail is preferred)  - It sounds like your transeiver isn't working. 2 Make sure it hasn't come loose, and try another if you have a spare.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:30:53 -0600 ( From: Robert Blum <rblum3@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: DECserver 200/MC - Message-ID: <3E0BE58D.6421C278@ix.netcom.com>   G The "loopback error" sounds like it is related to the external ethernet  transceiver.N If swapping it out for a different one still gives the same error message, you can try  another transceiver cable.  N One other thing to check: the "heartbeat" or "SQE" setting on the transceiver.M The DECserver 200 prefers to have hearbeat turned on, but should work without  it. N I always tried to turn it on so the SHOW SERVER command wouldn't have an errorN code displayed.  Very old DEC equipment, like PDP-11s and early VAXes requiredL heartbeat, then somewhat later could work without it but still gave an error code. J Still later models preferred to have it disabled.  It's all related to how Ethernet evolvedE from Ethernet version 1 to version 2, to IEEE 802.3.  Ethernet II has 
 heartbeat,N while IEEE 802.3 has SQE.  There were even differences in the 15-pin connectorO pinouts where Ethernet II used a single sheild ground, while 802.3 has separate  ones.   G (I know, more than you ever wanted to know...  And I'm showing my age.)    Bob Blum   Vandijck Andy wrote:  + > I have a problem with my DECserver 200/MC ) > at boot it gives the following message: M > Local -901- Initializing DECserver "08-00-2B-09-A9-C1" -- ROM BL20, H/W Rev  > F.C ( > Local -941- Transceiver loopback error& > Local -942- Image load not attempted; > Local -950- Troubleshooting procedures should be followed 2 > What can i do that it loads its image and boots?. > help wanted on this part (mail is preferred) > TIA  > Andy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:33:30 -0600 ( From: Robert Blum <rblum3@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: DECserver 200/MC - Message-ID: <3E0BE62A.79465E75@ix.netcom.com>   L Sorry about the formatting on my previous reply, here, here's a clean one (I	 hope!)...     G The "loopback error" sounds like it is related to the external ethernet O transceiver.  If swapping it out for a different one still gives the same error / message, you can try another transceiver cable.   S One other thing to check: the "heartbeat" or "SQE" setting on the transceiver.  The P DECserver 200 prefers to have hearbeat turned on, but should work without it.  IQ always tried to turn it on so the SHOW SERVER command wouldn't have an error code I displayed.  Very old DEC equipment, like PDP-11s and early VAXes required R heartbeat, then somewhat later could work without it but still gave an error code.S Still later models preferred to have it disabled.  It's all related to how Ethernet M evolved from Ethernet version 1 to version 2, to IEEE 802.3.  Ethernet II has O heartbeat, while IEEE 802.3 has SQE.  There were even differences in the 15-pin P connector pinouts where Ethernet II used a single sheild ground, while 802.3 has separate ones.  G (I know, more than you ever wanted to know...  And I'm showing my age.)    Bob Blum   >  > Vandijck Andy wrote: > - > > I have a problem with my DECserver 200/MC + > > at boot it gives the following message: O > > Local -901- Initializing DECserver "08-00-2B-09-A9-C1" -- ROM BL20, H/W Rev  > > F.C * > > Local -941- Transceiver loopback error( > > Local -942- Image load not attempted= > > Local -950- Troubleshooting procedures should be followed 4 > > What can i do that it loads its image and boots?0 > > help wanted on this part (mail is preferred) > > TIA  > > Andy   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:21:03 -0500 3 From: "Homer J. Simpson" <hsimpson@burnsenergy.com>   Subject: FA: DEC Graphics Tablet8 Message-ID: <CgJO9.130272$0v3.123325@news.bellsouth.net>  & Here's a rare bird for the DEC museum:  = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2084140838    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:04:05 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center/ Message-ID: <3E0B4493.41434F45@vl.videotron.ca>    Didier Morandi wrote:  > ; > http://www.hpintelco.com/pdf/HPIntelSolCenter_Itanium.pdf  > G > Where is OpenVMS mentioned in this document? My Acrobat Reader SEARCH  > function does not work.   : My search function worls, but of course does not find VMS.   It did find:" Linux, Windows and HP-UX on page 5      I On page 12 , it shows various corporations using that centre's services.     World Trade Organisation  0 	High end infrastructure achieving 99.999% of HA7 	Fault Tolerance solutions based on Marathon Technology   M You'd think Tandem would have been mentioned. What is "marathon technology" ?   J T-Mobile's billing system is mentioned.  If this actually runs on VMS, howM come VMS wouldn't have been mentioned ? If they bother using what is likely a K VMS customer as a reference site for a marketing document, you'd think that 8 such marketing document would mention VMS at least once.  4 Going to the actual web site, I found the following:  	T-Mobile, IP Billing Benchmark E 	The objective was to conduct high-water benchmark on Wintel platform K 	with portal infranet software to validate a billing scenario for T-Mobile.     V Searching the www.hpintelco.net web site yields no reasults for either VMS or openVMS.  H This is actually good news. It means that they have secretly stopped theL porting of VMS to IA64 and secretly re-engaged the Alpha development ... :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:07:39 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>< Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center/ Message-ID: <3E0B4568.8CEC092F@vl.videotron.ca>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:H > Page 5 mentions Linux, Windows and HP-UX, all of which I believe to beJ > released for "production" use on IAF.  VMS is more than a year away from > such status.    F Last I had read, Microsoft had not yet announced a full fledged 64 bitL Windows-XP product for IA64. I think that they only had an older version of N NT that had tentatively been ported to IA64 as a proof of concept. Does anyoneM have more complete information on when Windows will be available on IA64 as a ; real version that matches what Windows on the 8086 offers ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:10:19 -0800 $ From: Shane Smith <ssmith@icius.com>< Subject: RE: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center0 Message-ID: <01C2ACCF.6E1DF520@sulfer.icius.com>  B Some of the gamer websites I frequent have mentioned seeing 64-bitH Windows pre-release copies. I don't know how pre-release though. This isB how the Hammer support was first noticed; there were references toF hammer in one of the files in the distribution. Since there are ItanicD machines out there but no Hammers, they must have been running it on Itanic.    Shane    -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca] * Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 10:08 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center     Larry Kilgallen wrote:H > Page 5 mentions Linux, Windows and HP-UX, all of which I believe to beJ > released for "production" use on IAF.  VMS is more than a year away from > such status.    F Last I had read, Microsoft had not yet announced a full fledged 64 bitH Windows-XP product for IA64. I think that they only had an older version of  G NT that had tentatively been ported to IA64 as a proof of concept. Does  anyoneH have more complete information on when Windows will be available on IA64 as a; real version that matches what Windows on the 8086 offers ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:15:06 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)< Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center4 Message-ID: <uQNO9.76370$qq5.1034471@news.chello.at>  b In article <3E0B4493.41434F45@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: >Didier Morandi wrote: >>  < >> http://www.hpintelco.com/pdf/HPIntelSolCenter_Itanium.pdf >>  H >> Where is OpenVMS mentioned in this document? My Acrobat Reader SEARCH >> function does not work. > ; >My search function worls, but of course does not find VMS.  >[snip] K >T-Mobile's billing system is mentioned.  If this actually runs on VMS, how N >come VMS wouldn't have been mentioned ? If they bother using what is likely aL >VMS customer as a reference site for a marketing document, you'd think that9 >such marketing document would mention VMS at least once.  > 5 >Going to the actual web site, I found the following: ! >	T-Mobile, IP Billing Benchmark  F >	The objective was to conduct high-water benchmark on Wintel platformL >	with portal infranet software to validate a billing scenario for T-Mobile.  6 Last I heard was T-MOBILE is running Alpha-SC servers,5 so if this is correct, then VMS is not very likely...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:58:57 -0800 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>< Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center/ Message-ID: <v0ncuig9tmb6a0@corp.supernews.com>    Shane Smith wrote:D > Some of the gamer websites I frequent have mentioned seeing 64-bitJ > Windows pre-release copies. I don't know how pre-release though. This isD > how the Hammer support was first noticed; there were references toH > hammer in one of the files in the distribution. Since there are ItanicF > machines out there but no Hammers, they must have been running it on	 > Itanic.   % I have seen Windows 64 betas for IPF.  --  
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 11:56:35 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>... > Baby Peanut wrote: > > D > > The more I learn about OpenVMS the more I see that the statement3 > > "OpenVMS is easier than UNIX" is just not true.  > > $ > > I mean come on which is simpler: > > H > > $ DELETE dev:[dir.subdir...]*.*;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,[dir]subdir.dir; > >  > > or > >  > > $ rm -r dir  [...] G > There are many DELTREE implementations around, some in DCL, others in I > compiled/linked languages. In general, though, VMS tries to protect you G > from yourself quite frequently. Not providing an easy way of deleting ( > entire directory trees is one of them. > F > I've never used or even tried this, but other posters have suggested > that:  > 3 > $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav  > I > ...will produce the desired results, but only if you have Delete access A > to every directory in that path, with the possible exception of > > "mydir.dir;1", which you'll have to dispose of deliberately.  	 Make that   3 $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...] NL:A./SAVE/GROUP=0/NOCRC   ? and it will leave the .DIR files behind. There's no point using 5 redundancy groups and CRC checking for this function.    I > Also, the freeware DFU utility has a DELETE/TREE command which is quite H > a bit faster than most other methods, but still observes privilege and* > access (permission) restrictions, AFAIK.  > Use DFU if you can. It is the best tool I've seen for deleting= directory trees. You can get if from the Freeware CD which is D available at www.openvms.compaq.com. And David can tell you where to get the v2.7-1 patch for it.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 13:55:58 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212261355.4481792d@posting.google.com>   s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>... b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>... [...] H > > I've never used or even tried this, but other posters have suggested	 > > that:  > > 5 > > $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav  > > K > > ...will produce the desired results, but only if you have Delete access C > > to every directory in that path, with the possible exception of @ > > "mydir.dir;1", which you'll have to dispose of deliberately. >  > Make that  > 5 > $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...] NL:A./SAVE/GROUP=0/NOCRC  > A > and it will leave the .DIR files behind. There's no point using 7 > redundancy groups and CRC checking for this function.   ? Sorry, but I just realized this could be misinterpreted. I will  clarify.  D Either version will leave the .dir files behind, regardless of theirC protection masks. I added the /group=0/nocrc to avoid needless work 6 for the computer to do. And DFU is the best way to go.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 03:21:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <augh08$73t0o$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   1 In article <aufdt7$8g7$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, % 	"matt" <matt987@hotmail.com> writes: ! > At least with VMS you can't do:  >  >     rm *.tmp > / > and fumble the '.' key and accidentally type:  >  >     rm *>tmp > L > like I did once !  Similaly it'd be a bugger if you typed 'rm -r' when you > meant 'rm -f'.    C I keep hearing about this mythical accidental "rm -r" that destroys B the system.  I've been using Unix for over 20 years and have neverC had it happen.  It is much more a reflection on the person than the @ OS.  Remember, a subtle mistake you don't know you made that has@ later (and more longterm) effects is probably worse than the oneE that is obvious from the very start.  Precision is the responsibility C of the user, the machine can only do (and should be expected to do)  exactly what it is told to do.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 03:24:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <augh59$73t0o$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   0 In article <00A19065.E54D3E50@sendspamhere.org>,# 	VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: b > In article <auf51p$6p5ec$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:) >>In article <3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>, 6 >>	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: >>>  >>> 5 >>> $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav  >>>  >>L >>Using the BACKUP command to delete files.  Now that's intuitively obvious.? >>And I'll bet well documented inthe HELP command too.      :-)  > $ > Nearly as intuitive as "rm -r dir"  F I can interpolate the command "remove -recursive dir" from "rm -r dir"G probably comes from figuring out all those silly vanity plates when I'm  driving back and forth to work.   H Who in their right mind would assume to use the BACKUP command to DELETE files??     bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 03:30:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   = In article <b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>, 1 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  > @ > Use DFU if you can. It is the best tool I've seen for deleting? > directory trees. You can get if from the Freeware CD which is F > available at www.openvms.compaq.com. And David can tell you where to > get the v2.7-1 patch for it. >   I And if we're accepting alternate locally written (as in not a part of the H comercial OS) solutions, I can write a simple script that will mimic theJ "rm" command and use much longer but more english-like options in minutes.  G But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so G to is trying to make Unix look like something it's not.  Slows down the H learning curve and is non-portable to other people's machines. (hint, ifI you came to my site and the only way you knew to delete whole directories G full of files was DFU, what would you do when you didn't find DFU on my 
 systems??)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:17:00 -0600 2 From: "Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v0nl21ngk69f4c@corp.supernews.com>   5 "Baby Peanut" <baby_p_nut@yahoo.com> wrote in message 6 news:c5cf6e8.0212241446.4a3d9a4b@posting.google.com...B > The more I learn about OpenVMS the more I see that the statement1 > "OpenVMS is easier than UNIX" is just not true.  > " > I mean come on which is simpler: > F > $ DELETE dev:[dir.subdir...]*.*;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,;*,[dir]subdir.dir; >  > or > 
 > $ rm -r dir  > F > Plus the much-touted help facility that only shows command names and> > arguments and never explains output.  "man ps" will tell youH > everything about what ps outputs but "help show sys" will not tell you > what "LEF" is.  K Folks, I think that we are not mentioning the real strengths of VMS (DCL is J what is being discussed) over other operating systems by laboring over theK commands to delete a directory. Consider the following features of VMS (not  in any real order):   I Virtually all installed programs have an entry in the online help system. J Certainly all of the OS specific and HP/Compaq supplied "layered products" programs do.  J Virtually all programs have release notes that mention the major and minorG version numbers of the software and are available for all to read. This ? assists with software inventory, debugging, new features, etc..   L Most VMS software use license packs, which are not simply cryptic strings ofJ printable characters. They are structured in format and operated on with aF standard tool (LMF). License packs can be operated on with commands toK generate lists of current or expired licenses, licenses by vendor (author),  etc.  K The online help documents all installed software and qualifiers and usually . gives examples of command and qualifier usage.  F Error messages are designed to be meaningful and all system errors areL documented in manuals and can be decoded online via simple lexical commands.? User programs can easily be written to use the same facilities.   J Many command line programs use the system command interpreter to parse theG command line, making it rather easy to have a "uniform" user interface.   G Many command line programs also have online help integrated into them - L often the exact same help that is available at the outermost level of system" help; from help at the VMS prompt.  I The online help for virtually all programs is also the up-to-date command E reference for the program. It may be more up-to-date than the printed  manuals. You can trust it.  L VMS has "logical names", which allows the locations of devices, directories,H and files to be established and / or moved easily by the system manager.H There is a simple mechanism (several actually) for setting these logicalH names up during the system boot. Any part or all of a file specification< (from left to right) can be pre-specified by a logical name.  K VMS commands are generally meaningful - "backup", "edit", "copy", "delete",  etc.  L I will agree with anyone that the VMS file structure with the [] notation isL arcane. It is not, however, difficult to learn. There IS a newer file systemD available that is more like what *NIX and Windoze folks are used to.  L VMS has DECNet, the easiest networking I've heard of to learn and to use. ItK is fully integrated into the command shell (DCL). You can cat (TYPE) a file I locally or on another node by simply specifying the node (system name) if D the file isn't local. Example: TYPE FOO.BAR - for a local file. TYPEG NODE::FOO.BAR or TYPE"USER PASS"::FOO.BAR for a remote file. It is this  easy!   F There are standardized commands and procedures for installing software (VMSINSTAL and PCSI).   G There is a LARGE body of software available for use for free, most with C source code, from the user's group (formerly DECUS, now Encompass).   J Anyone else, please feel free to jump in here... this is my 2 cents worth.   Stuart Johnson ssj152 AT charter DOT net    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:09:58 -0800  From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 4 Message-ID: <mfRO9.17374$kq6.271891@news.xtra.co.nz>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message / news:augh59$73t0o$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de... 2 > In article <00A19065.E54D3E50@sendspamhere.org>,$ > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:J > > In article <auf51p$6p5ec$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: + > >>In article <3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>, 8 > >> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >>>  > >>> 7 > >>> $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav  > >>>  > >>E > >>Using the BACKUP command to delete files.  Now that's intuitively  obvious. > > & > > Nearly as intuitive as "rm -r dir" > H > I can interpolate the command "remove -recursive dir" from "rm -r dir"  C Or "remote -restore dir" or "remake -rollback [on] dir" or any sort E of other possibilities. The only reason you can interpolate the right A answer is because you already know it or have a very good idea of D what it should be. But the same is true of the backup command too...   > J > Who in their right mind would assume to use the BACKUP command to DELETE	 > files??   9 Well, perhaps a person who views the backup not as a copy 9 but a move operation which is actually supposed to remove A the original. In that case it would be quite intuitive to look at B that one for deletion - after all, isn't a delete operation simply- the act of moving something to null device ;)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 06:01:35 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? / Message-ID: <v0nr5viumk6c65@corp.supernews.com>    AG <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote:5 : Ever seen a newbie trying to figure out how to exit ( : [or whatever the term may be] from vi?  1 It's kinda like watching someone with TECO or TV.   < That's why most people I know use Emacs or vim or some other more recent editor,    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:22:04 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>7 Subject: Managing increasing number of foreign commands / Message-ID: <3E0BD561.7A1869BF@vl.videotron.ca>   P What is the best way to manage an increasing number of foreign commands on VMS ?  J Is there a way to just add them with a .CLD to dcltable.exe  and have thenK still behavethe same with the same "unix" style syntax ? Or is the only way I still to add them to sylogin so they clutter up the symbol table of every 	 process ?   L When you look at the TCPIP symbols, add in perl, ghostscript and all yor own' utilities, it vecomes harder to manage.    Any comments ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 06:08:04 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"); Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands 6 Message-ID: <00A190B3.BA44FC1C@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  b In article <3E0BD561.7A1869BF@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:Q >What is the best way to manage an increasing number of foreign commands on VMS ?  > K >Is there a way to just add them with a .CLD to dcltable.exe  and have then L >still behavethe same with the same "unix" style syntax ? Or is the only wayJ >still to add them to sylogin so they clutter up the symbol table of every
 >process ? > M >When you look at the TCPIP symbols, add in perl, ghostscript and all yor own ( >utilities, it vecomes harder to manage. >  >Any comments ?   N In a lot of cases, careful planning of the location of the images plus the useJ of DCL$PATH (which I think came in in 6.2 - I don't know what version yourM almighty teenager is running) keeps them from cluttering up either the symbol L table or sylogin.  You're kind of stuck with PERL because you need logicals L for PERLSHR and PERL_ROOT, but I think ghostscript and gv will run okay from a utility directory.  H I have a [GOODIES] directory that's included in my DCL$PATH and a lot ofJ Unix-ported stuff runs happily from there.  (I keep the sources, etc, in a separate tree.)    -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 19:49:41 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ... / Message-ID: <3E0B9594.6A9D47BE@vl.videotron.ca>   ! VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: J > I've not seen Star Wars either... well, I tried once and found the firstJ > few minutes *so* stupid that I decided to take a nap instead.  I suppose: > that makes me some sort of out-of-touch personality too?  I How can you function in the 21st century if you don't even know about the  origins of R2D2 and C3PO?   M I do hope that you are at least up-to-date with Star Trek.  Hard to imagine a % VMS guy who doesn't follow Star Trek.    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ;-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:04:58 GMT . From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Query 4 Message-ID: <_GNO9.76330$qq5.1034451@news.chello.at>  Z In article <aueraf$6ma9q$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:I >Nobody I know uses the name openVMS. In fact the few times that the name M >openVMS pops up in conversation it is used by persons that have no knowledge  >about computers.    I use it (too). 0 Just to decrease the name similarity with MVS...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:14:03 -0600 7 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.telocity.com> , Subject: Re: swap IDE CD-ROM drive with SCSIG Message-ID: <craigberry-D91A10.22140226122002@news.directvinternet.com>   & In article <3E0B1D16.8050208@Free.fr>,6  Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi.nospam@Free.fr> wrote:  I > I recently realized that my PWS 600au still has its genuine IDE CD-ROM  0 > drive, which prevents me to boot VMS from it.   E Not necessarily true.  It depends on the OpenVMS version and the PCI  G chip set.  Read the FAQ and the OpenVMS Release Notes to (IIRC) 7.3 or   later for details.   > I purchased a used SCSI F > drive (ref Toshiba XM 5401B) with a "mode select" microswitch. What 6 > params should I change to make it work fine, please?   Possibly none.  Read the FAQ.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:50:18 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>' Subject: TCPIP FTP fixing up file names / Message-ID: <3E0BDBFD.95D60E09@vl.videotron.ca>   L I tried to FTP a whole Macintosh disk drive to my all migty microvax II onlyM to find thst the FTP bombs whenever it encounters a directory name whose name I isn't valid under VMS (ODS2, of course since the VMS engineers decided to  deprive us of ODS5).  G Does anyone have a solution to this ? (this is an old MAC without NFS).    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 07:35:32 GMTF- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)CY Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa!  Is Sun a/& Message-ID: <H7puF8.D7y@world.std.com>  8 In article <j4dn0vgbotc8p8mj2hd5kr09l7o91j0k1g@4ax.com>, faust  <The Elder Gods> wrote:> >  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> ,  emitted these > fragments:  I > > Is it possible that while existing FABs still run VMS, that Intel hasiE > > decided on another platform that will run any new or upgraded fabsI > > plant later on ? That might explain Intel still sending people to VMS A > > functions, as well as the rumours of Intel having dumped VMS.y > E > But that does not explain all the sightings of VMS boxes being solda& > with Intel asset tags still on them.  J Well, just because they're dumping some VAX 6000 gear doesn't mean they'reJ not running OpenVMS on Alpha systems.  And they may still be running it onG VAX systems, though it probably would make a lot more sense for them to H use Alphas from the standpoint of having more readily available hardwareG and lower support costs--not to mention the Alpha systems offering muchn4 better performance--though I doubt it'd be required.   -brian.  -- nF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----J Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 04:28:55 GMT - From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)cY Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aip& Message-ID: <H7pLs8.4qE@world.std.com>  3 In article <KSpFTLxIq$pL@eisner.encompasserve.org>,s. Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:@ > In article <1eqm0vo0qg534ool2b7ng1vfl5f3aprcs0@4ax.com>, faust$ > <urfaust@optushome.com.au> writes:  F > > What do you think all the Intel fabs are moving to , now that they > > have dumped VMS ?  > D > And why did Intel waste all that money sending their VMS expert toD > DECUS in St. Louis?  And why was he lying at the lunch table about > using VMS on Alpha ?  B It's obvious; don't you see?  INTEL IS ENGAGED IN A MISINFORMATION( CAMPAIGN TO WIN YOU OVER TO IA64!!!111!!   -brian.c -- tF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----J Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 04:39:49 GMT)8 From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfineb9rv@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>Y Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aio4 Message-ID: <3E0A881C.54980CF2@b9rvnospamcompsys.to>  
 >faust wrote:I  D > What do you think all the Intel fabs are moving to , now that they > have dumped VMS ?6   Jerome Fine replies:  6 Since when has Intel dumped VMS at all the Intel fabs?  5 While I presume that Intel might have done this afterm4 Alpha was killed (maybe before just in case the fabs5 can't run without VMS/Alphas), I can't see that Intelo6 would do this for all the fabs while EV7 is still many years away from being EOL.   Sincerely yours,   Jerome Fine  --4 To obtain the original e-mail address, please remove5 the ten characters which immediately follow the 'at'.a8 If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail7 address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk 5 e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be 7 obtained by replacing the four characters preceding thev. 'at' with the four digits of the current year.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 01:29:13 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun ait. Message-ID: <3E0A93A3.5E5B89D@vl.videotron.ca>  F > > What do you think all the Intel fabs are moving to , now that they > > have dumped VMS ?a    M Is it possible that while existing FABs still run VMS, that Intel has decided-J on another platform that will run any new or upgraded fab plant later on ?N That might explain Intel still sending people to VMS functions, as well as the# rumours of Intel having dumped VMS.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 02:53:03 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aio/ Message-ID: <3E0AA744.38A4DE12@vl.videotron.ca>r   faust wrote:E > But that does not explain all the sightings of VMS boxes being soldu& > with Intel asset tags still on them.  H If they upgrade a production line to have new hardware, then it would beT logical for them to dutch the old hardware and buy the new more sophisticated stuff.  J Have Fab buildings become re-usable now  ? Or does the decrease in size ofA chips still require a new , more expensive building to be built ?d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:09:38 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>e& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E0AAAFD.4571026C@ev1.net>s   CBFalconer wrote:w > / >         [snip...]     [snip...]     [snip...]n > B > After all, you CAN build almost anything out of nothing but 7400 > quad 2-NANDs :-) > < If you are talking about quad NAND chips, that reminds me of% something said about Turing machines:   9 "With a Turing machine, any calculation is possible, but e, *no* calculation of significance is easy..."  : So yes, you can build anything out of NAND gates...but you8 will wish that you had *not* done it that way. (At least4 *not* using quad NAND gate 7400-series chips.) IMHO.   -- i? +-------------------------------------------------------------+-? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |t? +-------------------------------------------------------------+s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:15:58 GMTo1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth2 Message-ID: <3E0A9066.85EF74BA@firstdbasource.com>   jason andrade wrote: > + > Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> writes:o >  > >Dave wrote: > J > >Next to the last.  The VAX 7000 series (76xx, 77xx, 78xx) was the last. > M > digressing a bit - was there ever a VAX10000 ?  i've got some documentationr> > here that talks about the Alpha 10000 boxes running OpenVMS. > K > anyone know very much about these - did DEC sell many ?  what happened toD > them ? > 
 > regards, >  > -jason  E The VAX10000 was an attempt at the "main-frame" market. it was fasteriE than the 7000 but was measured in tonage, because it was a monster --d very few were sold IIRC.   -- e Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 00:17:04 -0400r0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth/ Message-ID: <3E0A82BF.F34BE263@vl.videotron.ca>n   David Froble wrote:wS > I didn't, and probably never will, understand the concept of in-cabinet upgrades.a  M With PCI now pretty standard as a hardware bus, I would think that in-cabinete& upgrades would become more widespread.  J You'd think that saving your peripherals, fans, power supplies and cabinet' would represent a substantial savings. g  L I realise that wildfires boxes will have to be ditched because the EV7 won'tA "fit" inside. But for smaller systems, shouldn't it be possible ?p  M Or has compaq/HP changed cabinet designs so often that motherboards are never-2 physically compatible with older cabinet designs ?    M Many countries around the world have or are about to enact strict rules about M disposal of electronic equipment. You'd think that a global vendor such as HPrL would start to design re-usable computer equipment where upgrades would onlyE mean swapping a few boards instead of throwing away a whole computer.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 06:27:57 GMTj- From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase)c& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth& Message-ID: <H7prAM.L6C@world.std.com>  2 In article <3E0A9066.85EF74BA@firstdbasource.com>,3 Michael Austin  <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:   G > The VAX10000 was an attempt at the "main-frame" market. it was fastersG > than the 7000 but was measured in tonage, because it was a monster --i > very few were sold IIRC.  H Are you sure that wasn't the VAX 9000?  It was the one that most closely/ matched the architecture of a mainframe system.n@ <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/archive/vax9000.html>  / The 10000 just seems like a glorified VAX 7000.d   -brian.v -- nF --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----J Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:26:28 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth, Message-ID: <3E0A68D4.7010400@tsoft-inc.com>  N The VAX 7000 series and the VAX 10000 series were announced at the same time. P One or maybe both were suppost to be upgradable to Alpha, in the same box.  The L 10000 was to be the top end stuff.  This was right at the time when VAX was M declining and Alpha was ascending.  The 10000 never really caught on.  As we  O have seen so many times, given two boxes of similar capability, the lower cost  Q box will be the winner in sales.  With the VMS cluster capability, and the lower -B cost of the 7000 series, the 10000 just wasn't an economic winner.  Q I didn't, and probably never will, understand the concept of in-cabinet upgrades.i   Dave     Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:  0 > In article <auc76l$pvj$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>,* > jason andrade <jason@dstc.edu.au> wrote: > + >>Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> writes:e >> >>>Dave wrote: >>>i > J >>>Next to the last.  The VAX 7000 series (76xx, 77xx, 78xx) was the last. >>>aM >>digressing a bit - was there ever a VAX10000 ?  i've got some documentationr> >>here that talks about the Alpha 10000 boxes running OpenVMS. >>L >>anyone know very much about these - did DEC sell many ?  what happened to  >>them ? >> > 4 > There are a few details about them available here:C > <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/archive/vax10000.html>- > L > I'm fairly certain one of them appeared on eBay within the past 2-3 years. > 	 > -brian.. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 04:29:42 GMTD' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E09FDCA.57096C40@yahoo.com>e   pzachary wrote:  > Joe Pfeiffer wrote:o > >T ... snip ... > >mC > > Though certainly all VAXes, and to the best of my knowledge all 0 > > PDP-10s and -11s used integrated circuits... > G > Of course, some of the early VAXen didn't use microprocessors, it was G > all bitslice in fpga or equiv, my old -11/750 had the (one) processorj2 > spread out over over a hundred 40-pin devices... > H > as for a "transistor" based computer (non IC based), perhaps the firstG > pdp-8, but Telnet, I wonder if some of the later 18-bit designs might5G > manage, they have enough power, certianly more than my pdp-11/20 thats% > can run mini-UNIX.  Finding one....   ' Please do not toppost.  Fixed this one.   = In 1965 ICs were much too expensive for general use.  By 1970e? individual transistors were much too expensive for general use, A even though their prices had fallen.  Things have been relatively B stable since then in the glue world, except that 7400 stuff is andB has been replaced by a few FPLA types, once more reducing packages and interconnects.  @ After all, you CAN build almost anything out of nothing but 7400 quad 2-NANDs :-)   -- M< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.D:    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:45:17 GMTc) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E0BBE87.99BE404F@ev1.net>n   Morten Reistad wrote:u > ( >      [snip...]   [snip...]   [snip...] > B > The VAX was DEC's attempt to repeat the success of the '11, withF > a 32-bit SuperCISC architecture. Ran a weird operating system calledL > VMS, as well as Unix in variuos flavors. Could make impressive performance > for its CISCyness. > ; You mean like:  "For a fat girl, you don't sweat much..." Ao9 real left-handed compliment. "For a lumbering, over-rateda$ hunk of junk, you do pretty well..."   -- s? +-------------------------------------------------------------+ ? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |t? +-------------------------------------------------------------+r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:48:05 GMT,) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>r& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth' Message-ID: <3E0BBF28.78865805@ev1.net>i   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:a >  > 3 >             [nsip...]     [snip...]     [snip...]e > --8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it. > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.   > . That sounds like a jab agaist Rush Limbaugh...   -- H? +-------------------------------------------------------------+u? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |h? +-------------------------------------------------------------+w   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:52:56 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth& Message-ID: <3E0BC052.19AE67C@ev1.net>   Dennis Grevenstein wrote:t > 1 >              [snip...]    [snip...]   [snip...]  > --@ > A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into software. >g I believe this used to be:C "A mathematician is a machine for converting coffee into thereoms."m        -- Paul Erds   -- n? +-------------------------------------------------------------+D? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   | ? +-------------------------------------------------------------+.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:25:22 -0500t< From: "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com> Subject: Re: VMS ISPs?/ Message-ID: <nlLO9.41$Om.66319@news.uswest.net>p  , You've got on in Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA...   http://www.carlc.com/s  0 They are a heavy OpenVMS shop and use OSU server7 for a majority of high uptime systems. Best thing aboutm7 hacking, most hackers don't have a clue what to do withe1 OpenVMS. Kind of a security via obscurity <grin>.s  : Also, you can use netcraft.com to verify if a site is what it says it is.   Enjoy, Carl   -- ==================== http://www.carlc.com/   =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like." 1 "Bill Hobbs" <bdhobbs18@acm.org> wrote in messager7 news:74ca5032.0212241652.359728dd@posting.google.com...cG > My second regularly unscheduled poll of cov looking for ISPs that use  > VMS. >r > Last time (2000 Oct 13I > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8s78s9%24n9f%241%40nnrp1.deja.com)S# > y'all came up with the following:vD > (Used http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/ to determine the OS and > http server) >t/ > http://www.dls.net/  Apache on NetBSD/OpenBSDiA > DLS Internet acquired FSINet (www.fsi.net and had VMS) 2001 Augo# > VMS is mentioned among other OSs.p4 > Is the mailing list vms-isps@dls.net still active? > , > http://www.endor.com/  Purveyor on OpenVMS > Proud to be a VMS ISP! > Local to NH? >g > http://www.iah.com/ ! > Gone, domain name is available.v >c* > http://www.infoave.net/  Apache on Tru64" > Could not find a mention of VMS.; > Are they an ISP or do they resell their services to ISPs?-9 > Stumbled onto web.infoave.net, which is OSU on OpenVMS.y >o9 > http://www.prodigy.net/  Netscape-Enterprise on unknownu% > Used VMS in the past, any VMS left?4 >7@ > A German ISP using VMS was mentioned, but no URL was provided. >w > FromJ http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=39ED61F7.D4123BFC%40SMTP.DeltaTel.RU,# > possibly a Russian ISP using VMS?  >t6 > http://www.iaregistry.com/  Apache (Unix) on unknown@ > Domain registry that ran on VMS and Tru64, is this still true? >e > http://www.radiusvms.com > RADIUS on VMS, ISP software?# > Site does not respond, timed out.  >d$ > The 2002 Dec 01 web server survey,A > http://www.netcraft.com/Survey/Reports/0212/, has the followingh > selected counts: >   total   35,543,105 >   OSU          3,540C >   Purveyor       549  Purveyor runs on OSs other than VMS, right?r >   HTTPd-WASD     236H > Any other http servers for VMS?  Apache at 22,045,350, plus some otherH > entries with Apache in the name.  But it runs on other OSs, like Unix. >IE > So Endor seems to be an all VMS ISP, DLS and InfoAve appear to haverB > VMS servers among other OSs.  Anyone here actually a customer orC > employee of any of these ISPs?  Can a customer have their account F > services (web, e-mail, etc.) exclusively on VMS?  Can a customer get > to a $ prompt? >-) > Are there any other VMS ISPs out there?c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 17:44:29 -0500i< From: "Carlc Internet Services" <cc@nospamming-to-carlc.com> Subject: Re: VMS ISPs?/ Message-ID: <iDLO9.43$Om.67896@news.uswest.net>   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:Dq5YBjNBbmyI@eisner.encompasserve.org...u  E > No at Arnold, but for web hosting I don't need a dollar sign promptI7 > so much as I need the vendor to stay in the business.r   Larry,  A     If you need more bandwidth, do let us know. We should be able B to help and provide complete support for OpenVMS. Our main servers> are OpenVMS. Its interesting, we push OpenVMS for customer whoB want a real 24x7x365 uptime and load balancing. Using OSU, we haveB PHP (First ISP to offer PHP on VMS was us!) on our servers. We areE directly connected into Qwest's backbone via a couple of T1s. We alsoo? do NOT resell our bandwidth downstream, no DSL, no modems, etc.nG We only provide hosting on our backbone, so you get the fastest service-	 possible.n  C     We also provide Linux on Alphas (we just can't seem to keep offlD those wonderful 64 bit AXP chipsets) for those *nix fans. That works2 better for the webmaster who wants PHP/PERL/MySQL.  ?     Some of my customers want access to the DCL prompt. I don't-B have a problem with that, but they will have to use SSH to access.D We won't allow telnet (to insecure) and SSH does a good job anyways.< We use Hunter Goatly's FTP program, as it works best with M$
 FTP programs.d  G     As to staying in business... Well, we've only grown through out the6; years. We were started as a consulting group (OpenVMS, UNIXhA stuff) and grown over the years. We use to send our customer backiC in 96/97 to other companies for hosting, but we realized that thoseKB hosting companies could not provide the service our customers wereB use to (Hey, It's OpenVMS's fault <GRIN> If it wasn't so reliable,B people would not expect large uptimes). And, unlike WorldCom, were profitable.n  /     If you have any questions, just contact us.m7     Carl (cc the-at-sign-here carlc put-a-dot-here com)m   -- ==================== http://www.carlc.com/w  =       "Price, Performance, Quality. Choose any two you like."m   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 14:34:33 -0800- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)c) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMSi< Message-ID: <3ff5fed3.0212261434.786ccb6@posting.google.com>  m bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in message news:<d7791aa1.0212210824.4c67a62d@posting.google.com>...-  D > why not just release the purveyor code?  process is not supportingC > it directly, so why not release it?  it is the best webserver fore> > tcpware hands down, and its release could only spur sales ofD > tcpware ... why is process following the marketing strategy of decD > by keeping great products out of the market which could spur salesD > for other products (tcpware)?  support it or release it!  or is hp@ > paying off process to suppress purveyor so it can push ucx andD > apache garbage ... another apache cert just appeared this week ...D > purveyor just runs and runs like vms ... it is just like ucx, unixB > c based garbage ... tcpware and purveyor are made to run on vms,D > which is why they are superior ... release the code or support it!  D While we appreciate your enthusiasm, there's no big conspiracy here. The facts are these:  @    - Purveyor sales did not justify continued development of the?      product, so Process stopped developing it a few years ago.s  <    - Over those few years, Purveyor has fallen behind in its=      feature set (it's HTTP V1.0 only, etc).  Making PurveyoroC      competitive again would take a significant Engineering effort. ?      Significant Engineering effort isn't going to happen for ah?      product that doesn't sell.  And Purveyor doesn't sell welltC      because people can get and use OSU, WASD, and Apache for free.|  D    - Some people still want to use Purveyor and we sell licenses for#      it, although it's unsupported.   B    - As long as the product produces *some* revenue, it's unlikely.      that Process will release it as freeware.  C    - The Purveyor code base was NOT written by Process, and I'm not>D      sure we'd even be allowed to release the sources to the public.   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/O goathunter@goatley.com   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 17:43:03 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMS = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0212261743.7dac51d9@posting.google.com>y  q goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote in message news:<3ff5fed3.0212261434.786ccb6@posting.google.com>...o  F > While we appreciate your enthusiasm, there's no big conspiracy here. > The facts are these: > B >    - Purveyor sales did not justify continued development of theA >      product, so Process stopped developing it a few years ago.e > > >    - Over those few years, Purveyor has fallen behind in its? >      feature set (it's HTTP V1.0 only, etc).  Making Purveyor E >      competitive again would take a significant Engineering effort.qA >      Significant Engineering effort isn't going to happen for asA >      product that doesn't sell.  And Purveyor doesn't sell wellrE >      because people can get and use OSU, WASD, and Apache for free.h > F >    - Some people still want to use Purveyor and we sell licenses for% >      it, although it's unsupported.r > D >    - As long as the product produces *some* revenue, it's unlikely0 >      that Process will release it as freeware. > E >    - The Purveyor code base was NOT written by Process, and I'm notrF >      sure we'd even be allowed to release the sources to the public. >  > Hunter > ------; > Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/n > goathunter@goatley.com  @ so sell it ... I am aware of a few individuals who would like to? and tried to buy it from you, and they would be willing to makel? the changes, but you will not sell them the source ... why not?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:19:06 +1030 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> ) Subject: Re: Webserver advice for VAX/VMSy, Message-ID: <3e0be9ce_2@news.chariot.net.au>   Bob Ceculski wrote: s > goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) wrote in message news:<3ff5fed3.0212261434.786ccb6@posting.google.com>...h
 8< snip 8<B > so sell it ... I am aware of a few individuals who would like toA > and tried to buy it from you, and they would be willing to makeaA > the changes, but you will not sell them the source ... why not?h  1 Ah yes, but that's part of the problem, isn't it? G Letting the great (or at least well-heeled) unwashed do what they like l with the code?  C (wooops, sucked in - must have been a weak, semi-inebriated moment)o  F +--------------------------------------------------------------------+E   Mark Daniel                         http://wasd.vsm.com.au/adelaide F   mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)F +--------------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:58:03 -0800i% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>  Subject: [OT] coffee( Message-ID: <3E0BA59B.7000005@rdrop.com>   > Dennis Grevenstein wrote:s > ? >A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into software.f  G Interesting; considering the Seattle area has a number of high quality )@ coffee roasters (_not_ counting Starbucks, because I said "high E quality"), yet the primary software product to come from that region I' is markedly known for it's low quality.z  C Hmm- I have friends that work for the borg.  I should ask what the ) "house coffee" is there...   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.715 ************************      