1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 27 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 716       Contents:7 Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?) 7 Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?) 7 Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?) ' Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a = ASKQ and special characters, was: Re: just a couple of things ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) & C RTL Patch Kit Dependent on SYS Patch9 Dinosaurs on the net? [was Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth] P FWD: cdrtools-2.0-final ready - mailing.comp.cdwrite #334 = New         cdrecord3 Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center  Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use?" Re: lock manager and blocking asts2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...+ Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular? - Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?  Pathworks - service Netlogon SMP Alphaserver 4100 CPUBAD???" Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file names" Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file namesP Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun ai) Vax 9000 -- Was vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  RE: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  RE: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth 2 Re: VMS has got apps ... 3300 and counting per HP!D Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of	VMS Re: [OT] coffee   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:10:44 +0100 5 From: "Chris Clifford" <chris.clifford@openvms.co.uk> @ Subject: Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?)* Message-ID: <3e0c5fad@news.swissonline.ch>  - "matt" <matt987@hotmail.com> wrote in message ) news:auhj28$9v4$1@helle.btinternet.com...  > L > It must be a slow day today 'cos now I'm intrigued enough to find out when  > and why this syntax got added. > D > Its a bit like dev:<dir> rather than dev:[dir] which most famously appeared > in STABACKIT.COM.  > K > Time for some digging (although it'd be a lot easier just to ask Hoff :-)  >   I I seem to remember reading that both <dir> and the '.' syntax for version F numbering were included in VMS for the benefit of users migrating from6 TOPS-20. They've always been catered for by VMS afaik.   - Chris.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:38:53 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> @ Subject: Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?)& Message-ID: <3E0C902D.3D77709@aaa.com>   matt wrote:  > M > Its a bit like dev:<dir> rather than dev:[dir] which most famously appeared  > in STABACKIT.COM.   D For the same reason (easier to type) I use <> when doing interactive
 work (when it F don't mess up things in combination with other (rooted) logicals), but
 always use []  in command files.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:51:49 +0100 $ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>@ Subject: Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?)0 Message-ID: <nk1P9.2870$oy.3198@news.get2net.dk>  F The bracket is not on the standard scandinavian LAxxx keyboards (it isE compose parenthesis^2), while the greater than & less than signs are.    Dweeb.  - "matt" <matt987@hotmail.com> wrote in message ) news:auhj28$9v4$1@helle.btinternet.com...  > 5 > "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message # > news:3E0C4C77.C32FAB35@aaa.com...  > > matt wrote:  > > > / > > > [1] or '.*' - does anyone ever use this ?  > > C > > Sure, it's faster to type (single-finger) without shifting (but B > > I'm using the ";*" format in command files just to be sure...) > > 8 > > But this might be a Swedish-keyboard-layout-thing... > >  > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  > L > It must be a slow day today 'cos now I'm intrigued enough to find out when  > and why this syntax got added. > D > Its a bit like dev:<dir> rather than dev:[dir] which most famously appeared > in STABACKIT.COM.  > K > Time for some digging (although it'd be a lot easier just to ask Hoff :-)  >  > Matt.  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:27:50 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 0 Subject: Re: 2002 HPOpenVMS Study: question E12a' Message-ID: <3E0B6646.CD774008@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  > [snip], > You cannot FORCE customers to do anything.  D Sorry if it seems pedantic, but I would have said, "You cannot FORCEF customers to do what you want them to do". You can force heir hand andE make them take some action, but the odds of that action being in your  favor are not guaranteed.   $ > You have to make customers WANT to > do something.   ) Indeed, this is the essence of marketing.   B > If you force them to upgrade from vax to alpha and then to IA64,0 > they will just migrate once to something else.   All too true, I fear.   O > And considering that the future of IA64 is more clouded than that of Alpha, I O > most certaintly would not bet my business on IA64 right now, not until it has P > proven itself commercially and the 64 bit 8086 vs IA64 issue is settled either > by Intel or by the market. > O > If HP turns out to be the sole serious user of IA64, then why bother going to G > IA64 when, by using Carly's logic, HP should be dumping a proprietary > > expensive architecture to move to a low cost commodity one ?  B Trouble is, the only current low-cost commodity hardware is 32-bitG Intel, and when it comes to VMS, well, we know how that thread goes...    G There is no low-cost 64-bit hardware outside of used Alphas and Sparcs.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 12:33:34 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)F Subject: ASKQ and special characters, was: Re: just a couple of things3 Message-ID: <bGab$aHaVAbp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <nQIxD$fXfvTb@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:  > C > Then here's a gem. I was using the PC a couple of days ago, using D > Acrobat Reader to read the I/O Users Guide. Typing $ in the searchG > box acted as ^H would at the VMS command line (Swiss German keyboard,  > if that makes a difference). > H > I could not search for FAB$whatever. Well, that puts paid to searching: > through much of the rest of the VMS documentation too... >   G I don't know what it is about special characters and search interfaces.   A Try the following (discovered just yesterday) in askq.compaq.com:   0 1) Enter "ioc_std$movtouser" without the quotes.  F Note that you get a documentation errors document as the first result.H Note that you also get 16000+ documents matched as it's split the input.  I 2) Now return to the starting page and reenter "ioc_std$movtouser" _with_ # the quotes to force an exact match.   F Note that the (relevant) documentation errors document, which contains the search string, is now gone.   I 3) Return to the starting page again and enter "std$movtouser" _with_ the @ quotes. Note that the documentation errors document is now back.  E It would appear not to like the underscore as a literal search string 
 character.   Just wonderful...    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       & "This is VMS. Viruses are irrelevant."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:28:12 -0500 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)8 Message-ID: <lLIO9.3925$oW.782156@news20.bellglobal.com>  A "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message / news:20021226161807.7182.qmail@nym.alias.net...    [ snip ]  L > If you have bookmark URLs for any documents, you can try feeding them intoM > the WayBack Machine at http://www.archive.org. I believe PDF documents will  > have been archived.  >  >  > Doc. > --< > Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world...M > ~ VAXman                                             https://vmsbox.cjb.net   F Thanks for the tip. I found lots of cool PDF's (including the one that compares Alpha to IA64) here: N http://web.archive.org/web/20010203183000/alphapowered.com/alpha_tech_presents .html   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:08:59 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)+ Message-ID: <00A1915B.7E259E89.11@decus.de>   * "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:   > [...]  > H > Thanks for the tip. I found lots of cool PDF's (including the one that > compares Alpha to IA64) here: P > http://web.archive.org/web/20010203183000/alphapowered.com/alpha_tech_presents > .html  >  > [...]   / Did you really manage to download the files ???   ? Clicking on the documents mentioned there resulted in a browser @ redirection to "alphapowered.com/presentations/..." (PDF and PPT1 files) and finally in a "server not found" error.    Michael    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:10:33 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)+ Message-ID: <00A1915B.B61159F0.27@decus.de>   * "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:   > [...]  >  > Here's a few more links: > P > http://www.support.compaq.com/alpha-tools/documentation/current/chip-docs.html: > http://www.support.compaq.com/alpha-tools/documentation/ >  > [...]   = Already known to me (although being listed under "Linux Alpha > Resources" -- "Alpha Technical Documentation") - but thank you
 nevertheless.   A The latest chip documented there obviously is the "21264/EV68ACB" C alias "21264/EV68CB" and "21264/EV68DC" (Hardware Reference Manual,  June 2001 Edition).    Michael    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 06:48:50 -0800( From: rrb35146@yahoo.com (Robbie Benton)/ Subject: C RTL Patch Kit Dependent on SYS Patch = Message-ID: <dba64bc2.0212270648.2a71ea2d@posting.google.com>   E I downloaded the ACRTL V0100 Patch kit for OpenVMS V7.3-1 yesterday.  < It appears to have a fix for a problem we were experiencing.  C Howver, it states you must install SYS V0200 Patch kit prior to the C installation of this kit.  However, SYS V0200 Patch has a note that ; there is a problem with it and should not be installed on a  uniprocessor system.   What is a person to do?    Robbie   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:06:07 GMT - From: bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) B Subject: Dinosaurs on the net? [was Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth]& Message-ID: <H7r1I7.FJB@world.std.com>  / In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>, , Morten Reistad  <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:  L > I am not too well versed in PDP10s predating the KL and Tops20 version 3A;L > but I believe the KA10 would run versions of Tops10 that supported telnet.D > The KA10 is most certainly a transistor (and diode!) construction.  I Or if not the KA10, what about DEC's PDP-6 systems?  SAIL was originally  J a PDP-6 when it went online in 1966.  Eventually it was upgraded to a moreF capable processor, but how long did they run with on the PDP-6; was itH long enough to have it connected to Arpanet?  Were there any other PDP-6G systems around that would've been on the net sometime during the 1970s?    -brian.  --  F --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----J Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:27:19 +0100 C From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> Y Subject: FWD: cdrtools-2.0-final ready - mailing.comp.cdwrite #334 = New         cdrecord > Message-ID: <00A19144.E85203E0.1@CHCLU.CHEMIE.UNI-KONSTANZ.DE>   Hi,   L This is Joerg Schllings announcement about the new cdrecord/cdrtools versio= n.   EberhardL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=	 =3D=3D=3D 
 Late changes:   D -	Fix for a DVD-Video problem in mkisofs with zero sized *.VOB files  C -	Workaround for an OpenBSD bug. Newer OpenBSD versions #define EOF * 	in ctype.h which is not covered by POSIX.     NEW features of cdrtools-2.0:   > Please have a look at the German open Source Center BerliOS at www.berlios.deF BerliOS will continue to support free hosting of cryptography projects evenH when US laws change and don't allow to host cryptography projects in the USA.F Also look at sourcewell.berlios.de, the first Open Source announcement service 2 that itself is implemented as Open Source project.  = ***************** Important news ****************************   G For the 'Slottable Source Plugin Module' SSPM Features read README.SSPM   ? ***************** Please Test *********************************    All:  F -	Now using the =22Slottable Source=22 feature of the makefile system.= 	This is the fist modular reusable portable makefile standard  	in the open source world.  , 	To see a new feature call: =22make tinfo=22  : -	config.sub now recognises =22parisc-unknown-linux-gnu=22  0 -	Circumvent some problems with GCC-3.0 on Linux  B -	Removed printf() definitions from schily.h to avoid type clashes  6 -	Support for SCO (Caldera) OpenUNIX (aka. UnixWare 8)  ' -	Better support for Darwin-1.3 and 1.4   	 	This is:    	-	enhanced makefile system   5 	-	type casts needed for unusual types used on Darwin ! 		(e.g. sizeof() returns long=21)   D -	Schily support includefiles rearranged to make portability even=20 	easier.  8 -	mconfig.h now defines IS_SCHILY to signal users of the? 	Schily makefilesystem, that the Schily portability environment  	is being used.   > -	now includes the forgotten mkdep-sco.sh that helps to better  	work around the SCO C-compiler. =09 F -	timedefs.h modified. Now the last schily portability support include> 	file hast been reworked to make portability even much easier.  E -	schily.h & standard.h have been modified to hopefully finally solve / 	all type clash problems with size_t & spawn*()   " -	Compile support for QNX Neutrino  B -	Now we hopefully have floating point support for _all_ platformsA 	even those without *cvt() and without __dtoa(). Thanks to a hint A 	from Thomas Langer <Langer.Thomas=40gmx.net> we now use strtod.c  	to gert a fallback __dtoa()  E -	Added an autoconf test for rcmd() so cdrtools now should compile=20 6 	again on BeOS and AmigaOS where no rcmd() is present.  * -	fixed fexec.c to make it compile ion QNX  B -	Now the complete libschily is included although it it not needed4 	for cdrtools. There are two reasons for doing this:  6 	-	Cdrtools is _the_ program that is heavily tested on5 		many different platforms, so I will get reports for  		compile problems this way.  8 	-	cdrtools becomes a base docking platform for the SSPM> 		system this way. Now any of the Schily tools may be included? 		and compiled inside the base portability platform 'cdrtools'.    -	New supported architctures: = 		s390-linux-cc.rul parisc-linux-cc.rul parisc64-linux-cc.rul   J -	Large File support for IRIX-6.2 (added autoconf test for -n32 cc option)  G -	Large File support for IRIX-6.5 now everything works correctly if the J 	OS supports Large Files by default in 32 bit mode (uses fseeko()/ftello()G 	if present. This could only be done by massively changing the autoconf  code 	stolen from GNUtar.  ) -	Support for SGI IRIX platform ip17-irix    -	Support for SGI IRIX-6.5  $ -	Try to support recent BeOS (again)  : 	-	Workaround in libschily/comerr.c for the nonstandard=20# 		big negative errno values on BeOS   < -	libschily now includes floating point printf() for BeOS=20  E -	fileluopen.c from libschily now compiles on BeOS (without O_NDELAY)   > -	workaround for the nonstandard negative errno values on BeOS  ) -	Schily makefile RULES for AmigaOS added   C -	getpagesize() emulation for BeOS to make cdda2wav compile on BeOS   = -	New rule allows automatic fallback to GCC if the configured % 	default compiler could not be found.    -	statdefs.h enhanced   : -	Many corrections to give less warnings on SCO Openserver  7 -	Support for NT-5.1 (WIN XP) added os-cygwin_nt-5.1.id   ? -	VMS script build_all.com now includes astoll.c so compilation  	on VMS should work again.  5 -	New macros for max/min values of int*_t in utypes.h   E -	Limit the different handling of packed bitfields for AIX to AIX CC.   5 -	Unfortunately fragementation of cdrecord has begun. ; 	I noticed this fact recently when people started to ask me 4 	senseless things which turned out to be a result of9 	a modified cdrtools source that I have not ben aware of.   > 	One main goal of cdrtools is to provide a platform indepenantC 	user interface which cannot be achieved if people change important   	parts os the user interface.=20> 	For this reason, I changed the license in hope that this will9 	help at least to keep the user interface the same on all $ 	platforms and on all distributions.  ? 	Please keep in mind that fragmentation in many cases increases 9 	my workload. There is no real reason for a modification, A 	and (even worse) the people who create modifications do not help B 	to keep my workload low in order to help me (and Heiko and James)> 	with the cdrtools project. People should rather contribute to< 	the project. Cdrtools should be free and actively mantainedB 	in future. With increasing workload, I don't know how to do this.    @ -	Add hints that compiling on unknown platforms wil only work if 	=22smake=22 is used.   G -	Autoconf code for Large file support now handles Linux system include C 	file bugs that prevented correct behavior on 64 Bit Linux systems.     E -	Better autoconf code for the problems with mlock() & HP-UX-10.20=20   : -	Better autocheck code for available C-compilers on HP-UX* 	Now even a fallback from GCC to CC works.  A -	Some changes to make compilation on 64 bit systems more correct   9 -	Added support for GNU Hurd to the Schily Makefilesystem   B -	Cast pointerdiffs to int for printf() %.*s format and/or include. 	workarounds for 64 bit problems in this area. =09 / -	Several modifications to make OS/2 work again  	(e.g. -lsocket added)  < -	fexec.c now uses a configurable PATH environment separator 	to allow PATH lookup on OS/2   8 -	A 20 year old extension has been removed from format.cC 	This caused printf() to interpret %X as %lX. This caused noticable = 	problems on IA-64. It should have created problems on True64 > 	and on 64 bit Sparc programs too but was not directly visible" 	due to a different stack content. =09 ) -	remove #elif to avoid a GCC-3.x warning   . -	config.sub now knows about IA64 architecture  A -	Makefilesystem now spports compiler specific optimization flags   B -	Align_test.c now creates a better include file (using more () to. 	make sure the compiler created correct code).  E -	Makefilesystem changed =24(MAKE) to =22=24(MAKE)=22 to allow spaces 
 	in pathnames   ? -	Correct autoconf test for broken OS like MAC OS X that do not 9 	allow local malloc() implementations due to linker bugs.   B -	Add autoconf test for strange clock_t definition method on Linux  ) -	README.ATAPI enhanced for all platforms   @ -	README.ATAPI now contains a hint on how to use ATAPI drives on
 HP-UX-11.x  @ -	Support for FreeBSD on Ultrasparc added to the makefile system  - -	*roff'd man pages in .../doc dir re-created   & -	Try to work around a bug in OpenBSD.I 	OpenBSD defines EOF in ctype.h but POSIX only mentions an EOF definition C 	for stdio.h. If we include ctype.h bfore schily.h on OpenBSD while / 	stdio.h has not been included, this will fail.   K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------  --*/  < Libparanoia (Ported by J=F6rg Schilling, originated by Monty xiphmont=40mit.edu):  I -	The paranoia code from cdparanoia (written by Monty xiphmont=40mit.edu) , 	has been converted into a portable library.  K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------  --*/  E Libedc (Optimized by J=F6rg Schilling, originated by Heiko Ei=DFfeldt  heiko=40hexco.de):  3 -	Changed to allow compilation on K&R compilers too    -	Speedup by 300% - 	The speedup is nearly processor independant.   " 	Pentium-233		2443 sectors/s   32x+ 	333Mhz-UltraSparc-IIi	6402 sectors/s   85x , 	900Mhz-UltraSparc-III+	22813 sectors/s 304x" 	Athlon-1000		24378 sectors/s 325x" 	Athlon-1700		40168 sectors/s 535x  H 	Depending on the speed of gettimeofday(), these numbers may be up to 5%	 	too low.    -	Code is now put under GPL.  K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------  --*/   Libscg:   8 -	Trying to add a workaround for just another bug in the7 	sg driver in the Linux kernel. If a TIMEOUT occurs,=20 , 	the error code does not indicate a TIMEOUT.  E -	Better scg_open() error messages when trying to do scanbus on Linux - 	and no /dev/sg* or /dev/pg* could be opened.   E -	Output Request Sense buffer with -debug when the USCSI interface is  	used on Solaris.   G -	First attempt for support for the new IOKit SCSI interface on MaxOS X . 	Darwin-1.4 and newer with much much help from3 	Constantine Sapuntzakis  <csapuntz=40Stanford.EDU>   < 	Unfortunately there is not yet support for SCSI devices nor= 	is there support for standard Bus,Target,Lun device namings. , 	I hope that bot may be added in the future.  < 	Volunteers who like to help with the libscg interface stuff 	for Darwin-1.4 are welcome.  7 -	Try to make scsi-beos.c compile on new BeOS version 5   F -	First attempt to integrate the AmigaOS SCSI transport interface code- 	from Thomas Langer <Langer.Thomas=40gmx.net>   A -	Massive modicifation of the support code for SCO OpenServer 5.x   7 	As the kernel implementation contains several bugs,=20 D 	the new code will by default not check for hard disks in scan mode. =09 5 	The code checks the following environment variables:   > 	=22LIBSCG_SCAN_ALL=22	To force scanning for all SCSI targets.5 	=22LIBSCG_SCSIUSERCMD=22	use old SCSIUSERCMD ioctl() H 	=22LIBSCG_MAX_DMA=22	override MAX_DMA value, value must be number in kB5 	=22LIBSCG_ENABLE_USB=22	enable access of USB devices    -	Version -> 0.6  ? -	Adding support for the CDROM_SEND_PACKET ioctl() from cdrom.c   H 	Thanks to Alexander Kern <alex.kern=40gmx.de> for the idea and first=20D 	code fragments for supporting the CDROM_SEND_PACKET ioctl() from=20K 	the cdrom.c kernel driver. Please note that this interface in principle=20 D 	is completely unneeded but the Linux kernel is just a cluster of=20C 	code and does not support planned orthogonal interface systems.=20 G 	For this reason we need CDROM_SEND_PACKET in order to work around a=20 E 	bug in the linux kernel that prevents to use PCATA drives because=20 D 	the kernel panics if you try to put ide-scsi on top of the PCATA=20 	driver.=20   J 	The code is currently in =22status nascendi=22 but usable with some trade offs.    	To use: call e.g.    		cdrecord -scanbus dev=3DATAPI:  2 		cdrecord -dao -v speed=3D24 dev=3DATAPI:0,0 ....  B 	Be careful=21 This code is only needed in order to be able to useD 	PCATA CD-writers on notebooks because there is a severe kernel bug.A 	Unfortunately, this bug causes the kernel to hang (and force you  	to reboot) if you try to call:    		cdrecord -scanbus   $ 	without the dev=3DATAPI: option.=20  < 	In this case cdrecord will hang infintely and unkillable=207 	in open(=22/dev/sg1=22, 2) =3D> you need to reboot :-(   D 	Repeat by: Insert a PCATA CD-Writer in a Sony VAIO notebook and run 			cdrecord -scanbus.=20  E -	Enhanced list of SCSI Error texts from SCSI standard from 29.5.2001   D -	New callback function to allow execption handling to be done after% 	the current SCSI command did finish.   4 -	scsi-aix.c now uses UIntptr_t in alignement macro.  5 -	Some 64 bit casts in the USCSI code from scsi-sun.c   D 	For hints on the Linux Packet code in ide-cdrom.c read README.ATAPI  F -	Introduce a workaround for a conceptional Bug in the Linux kernel=20 	SCSI implementation.   D 	Linux is unable to distinct between a target selection timeut (e.g. switchedE 	off target) and a command timeout (e.g. command needs more time than 
 expected).  J 	If the detected command time is < 1 second, libscg will now assume a dead target.   E -	Fix a bug with ATAPI in scsi-vms.c - now the SCSI status byte is OK  	Thanks To Eberhard Heuser  D -	Allow up to 26 IDE controlers in scsi-vms.c - Thanks to Chip Dancy  E -	Do not open all /dev/scg* devices on Solaris if not in Scanbus mode   D -	Handle ENXIO in Solaris USCSI interface code as indicator for a=20 	switched off device.   ? -	Max DMA size for Linux ATAPI Packet interface code corrected.   	Max DMA is 128k-1 and not 128k.  B -	Support for recently defined new SCSI target types found in SCSI
 	standard.  I -	New help system that lists all SCSI low level transports for a specific ) 	platform together with their properties.   < -	Allow consistent usage of alternate SCSI transport layers.  > 	Now the Solaris USCSI implementation and the (SuSE) Linux ATA implementationL 	behave similar and both allow dev=3D<Transport> as well as dev=3D<Transpor= t>:  	for -scanbus, e.g.    	cdrecord dev=3DUSCSI -scanbus 	cdrecord dev=3DUSCSI: -scanbus  	cdrecord dev=3DATAPI -scanbus 	cdrecord dev=3DATAPI: -scanbus    	all work the same way.   B -	Small change for Linux device initialization by request of Linus Torvalds  H 	The purpose of this change is to support a new SCSI transport interfaceH 	for ATAPI in Linux that came up with the latest developer Linux kernelsJ 	(e.g. Linux-2.5.43). This interface allows to send SCSI commands directlyB 	to ATAPI drives without using ide-scsi and sg, but it has several	 pitfalls.   @ 	While Linux allows to use DMA when using ide-scsi and sg if theI 	sector size is 2048 and the transfer buffer starts page aligned, the new K 	direct interface never uses DMA (acording to Linus Torvalds). So if you=20 H 	write audio CDs or data CDs in RAW mode, there is no difference. If youE 	write data CDs in TAO or DAO mode, using ide-scsi and sg allows much < 	higher write speed. Note that this may change in future....   	Notes for use:   4 	-	You need to specify something like dev=3D/dev/hdc* 		Note that this is unsupported by libscg.  D 	-	As long as there is no safe way for libscg to find out early that< 		this new interface is used, libscg may hang a bit on open.= 		This is caused by the fact that libscg is forced to read=20 = 		from the open filedscriptor to clean up old Linux sg driver < 		interfaces. This was never a problem with /dev/sg*, but=20? 		when doing the same thing, this causes libscg to read content  		from /dev/hd*   = 	-	There is (currently) no way for cdrecord to scan for ATAPI $ 		devices when using this interface.  8 		As long as this is true, you may want to prefer to use    		cdrecord dev=3DATAPI: -scanbus 		and  		cdrecord dev=3DATAPI:0,0 ...
 		instead.  . -	Fix scsi-unixware.c to allow multiple opens.   -	Fixed several typo's.   ? -	Avoid to read from the media (when using the new experimental C 	Linux ATAPI transport) while trying to clear old sg driver status.   H -	Woraround for Linux kernel design bug: CDROM_SEND_PACKET sets errno=20; 	to EINVAL in case SCSI sense key is =22Invalid command=22.   K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------  --*/   Rscsi:  2 -	RSCSI now works if the target is a Win32 system.9 	This is not done by changing rscsi.c but by fixing a bug 
 	in Cygwin=21   & 	The fix to Cygwin's rshd is posted in  C 		http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2001-05/msg00000.html=20   ( 	Thanks to  egor duda <deo=40logos-m.ru>  C 	NOTE that in a few weeks this patch will be integrated into Cygwin H 	and cdrecord/RSCSI will work out of the box on a recent Cygwin release.  0 -	Now prints user ID & user Name into DEBUG file  - -	Now using signal safe read/write functions.   7 -	Code now checks for HAVE_NETDB_H (added by request of A 	=22Thomas=22 <Langer.Thomas=40gmx.de> to help with AmigaOS port) 9 	This should indicate whether there is support for rcmd()  	in the OS.    -	Make it compile on BeOS   0 -	changed because GNU Hurd has no MAXHOSTNAMELEN  G -	Return =22PIPE=22 for hostname comparison if called from e.g. 'sshd'.   K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------  --*/  	 Cdrecord:    -	New option -overburn  I 	This option has been added as many people seem to be unabe to understand G 	that they are going to write more than the official disk capacity from H 	reading cdrecord's output. Oveburnung now is no more done by default=21  C 	NOTE that there even are some drives that prevent you from writing G 	exactly the official size and stop several hundreds of sectors before.   I -	Do not print a warning for writing more than 90 minutes if the media is  	a DVD  @ -	Fix for a problem with setting high priority on Win32 systems.( 	Thanks to  egor duda <deo=40logos-m.ru>  2 -	Sony MMC drives now work in -multi session mode.C 	There was a bug in cdrecord that was accepted by all other drives. 6 	The bug did cause a temporary bad setup to the drive.  @ -	I hope that the 90 minute CD capacity warning now will finally 	disappear for DVD writers.   ? -	Old test code removed that prevented cdrecord from being able @ 	to write manually configured indices. Note that the index listsB 	from the *.inf files with using the -useinfo option alway worked.  > -	-force will force cdrecord to ingnore any failed forced OPC.= 	currently this is only done if the drive does not support=20  	forced OPC.  ' -	Do forced OPC before blanking a CD-RW   7 -	Driveropts =22burnproof=22 renamed to =22burnfree=22. H 	This  has been done as this technology now appears in the MMC standard.  < -	Cdrecord now shows whether BURN-Free is active. This makes8 	sense as Ricoh's =22Just-Link=22 is enabled by default.G 	Unfortunately, the way =22Just-link=22 is implemented is not compliant C 	with the MMC standard. We will have to wait until I get the needed  	information from Ricoh.  # -	Support for MMC RAW mode writing.   @ 	This allows to do disk at once recording on Philips drives that 	do not support SAO.  ; 	You may write audio tracks in RAW mode. There are some new # 	and most likely transient options:   2 	-raw16		Write 2352 Bytes sectors + P+Q Subchannel  E 	-raw96r		Write 2352 Bytes sectors + P+W Subchannel (R-W in raw mode)   H 	-raw96p		Write 2352 Bytes sectors + P+W Subchannel (R-W in packed mode)  ) 	Indices are fully supported in RAW mode.   J 	MCN & ISRC are not yet suported in RAW mode, they are silently discarded.  ? 	I know that cdrecord currently does not work in RAW/R96P mode. D 	It is not clear whether this is a bug in cdrecord or in the PlextorF 	firmware as I did not yet found another drive that claimes to support
 	RAW7R96P.  6 	If you find other problems in RAW mode or if you findB 	new bugs introduced in old write modes, please send a bug report.  G -	Cdrecord now checks the properties of the writer. If a specific writetB 	mode is not supported by the writer, cdrecord warns you and makes1 	a suggestion for a similar alternate write mode.   F 	With the curent structure of cdrecord, it is not possible to silently0 	e.g. change the write mode from -dao to -raw96r  D -	MMC compliant drives are automatically scanned for supported write modes.= 	This should help to make cdrecord work without manual staticw configuration.D 	My hope is still to have no need to know all drive properties in=20= 	advance, so new drives will continue to work as long as theyR+ 	are standard comliant enough for cdrecord.-   	NOTE for GUI implementors:c  ! 	the line starting with the text:e  & 		=22Checking possible write modes:=22  ! 	will go away in the near future.s   	The line starting with:   		=22Supported modes:=22  < 	will remain and should be checked for possible write modes. =09 < -	Fixed a bug in the option checking that prevented to write 	data CD's at all.  6 	Now only =22RAW data=22 CD's are flagged as expected.  5 -	Fixed a bug in the Firmware bug recognition system. : 	This bug did prevent cdrecord to work with Philips drives 	when writing in RAW mode.  ? -	New options -copy & -nocopy to allow to modify the 'copy' bits 	in audio subchannel data.  5 -	-scms option added to the man page and online help.   ) -	New model to compute SCSI transfersizes   + -	-xa1 -xa2 sector typedefinitions changed.l  ; -	Debug messages while checking possible write modes of MMCl 	compliant made optional.n  7 -	RAW writing scatter sector function made more generalo  = -	New functions to convert between 2448 and 2368 byte sectorss   	NOTE: Read README.raw  + -	add a forgotten if (xdebug) in drv_mmc.c. A 	This caused a superfluous write mode debug message to be printed   @ -	do installation of exit handlers (to reset SCSI state) earlier  F -	Cdrecord now does not exit with 0 anymore when interrupted with =5EC. 	during the waittime before starting to write.  F -	First CD-Text support (can only copy CD-Text information from master 	disk)  < 	Writing of CD-Text is supported for all drives that support: 	CD-Text in SAO write mode and for all drives that support8 	to write in RAW/RAW96R mode (use -raw96r in this case).   	NOTE: Read README.cdtext.  > -	Circumvent a bug in the system include files from Linux that> 	makes printf() a macro and prevented compilation with GCC-3.0  J -	Added some #include <stdio.h> to substitute missing printf() definitions  6 -	SAO/R16 mode removed from tests, it may never occur.  E -	Changed some .min defines in structs to .pmin to avoid K&R complierM	 	problems    -	better FIFO debug messages  0 -	New driver config table for Taiyo Yuden EW-50.= 	This dive is like a Philips CDD-521 but has been reported to  	swab audio data.:  @ -	rscsi client code now uses buffered read to speed up on Cygwin  = -	rscsi client code now uses signal safe read/write functions)  > -	Cdrecod now does not open/close the tray anymore if the disk 	is going to be erased.g  < -	modify -version output if Clone writing support is present  F -	A new driver has been added that first checks the media if the drive 	supports to write CD & DVD.  A -	Behaviour of the function that reads fs=3D tsize=3D and similar  	corrected.n  2 -	Modified driver interface for better DVD support  9 -	FIFO Code now checks for HAVE_FORK (added by request of A 	=22Thomas=22 <Langer.Thomas=40gmx.de> to help with AmigaOS port)u  C -	Better messages when trying to write more than the amount of dataO 	that fits on a DVD.  E -	The DVD driver now reports a DVD media back to the high level code.-  @ -	correctly use the buffer capacity code from the driver instead+ 	of the MMC-2 read buffer cap code directly:  G -	Support for the unusual not ready error code of the CyberDrive CW038D9  D -	CD-Text Code now also accepts Text File without 4 byte Size header  ? -	CD-Text file read code now is able to do CRC error correctionM3 	Note that only songle bit errors per 18 byte pack.h   -	CD-text Autoring support:n  < 	CD-text may now be based on fields found in the *.inf files 	created by cdda2wav.e  A 	To create a CD with CD-Text based on information from freedb.org- 	call:   	1)	cdda2wav -B -v255 -L9 	2)	cdrecord =7B-dao=21-raw96r=7D -v -useinfo -text *.wavu   	CD-text TODO:  9 	-	Check whether the *.inf files are all from the same CD16 		and clear some CD-text fields that are only valid if 		they relate to one CD only.x  8 	-	Add some more fields (mainly a dficiency of cdda2wav)   	-	Support multi language text  1 	-	Support character coding other than ISO-9959-1g  8 	CD-text may be based on fields found in the *.inf files 	created by cdda2wav..   	NOTE: Read README.cdtexts  ? -	better messages for CD manufacturer codes that are not in the   	latest free Orange forum table.  = -	Default usage code is now only 6 lines so the error message @ 	does no longer scroll out the screen. If yu like to get the old, 	long usage information, call cdrecord -help  6 -	move 'dd' like number conversion stuff into getnum.c  < -	Allow the /etc/default/cdrecord parsing code to be used by+ 	readcd too (as documented in the man page)n  = -	First support for Plextor's VariRec feature in the PX-W4012i. 	I am not sure about the final user interface.@ 	For now, call e.g. cdrecord speed=3D4 driveropts=3Dvarirec=3D-1B 	for all audio CDs. Allowed varirec parameters are -2, -1, 0, 1, 2% 	VariRec only works at write speed 4.2  7 -	Print the actual current write speed in verbose mode.f  ( -	DVD-R code (undisclosed) now supports:  		Vendor_info    : 'MATSHITA'=20( 		Identifikation : 'DVD-RAM LF-D310 '=20 		Revision       : 'A116'=20  # -	Support for SCMS from *.inf filesiG 	Note that you need to use cdda2wav/cdrecord that have fitting versionsd@ 	because of this change. Otherwise cdrecord may add SCMS copy=20 	protection.  / -	RAW mode now honors COPY bit and SCMS coding.a  A -	Avoid coredump with =22cdrecord textfile=3D non/existant ...=22o  @ -	Corrected printf() formats for verbose printing to hold enough 	space for media > 1 GB (DVD)a  A -	Corrected printf() formats to make the write speed non-jumping.i  ? -	If called from a GUI, cdrecord now reads from =22stderr=22 ift' 	the CD-input-data is from =22stdin=22.A> 	If it turns out that stderr is not open for reading, cdrecord 	waits to receive a SIGUSR1   H -	Better printouts for the DISC-ids covered by the orange forum embargo.  8 -	DVD structure structure definition enhanced to reflect 	current standard.   -	new option gracetime=3Dg  B -	Try to abort DAO recording with a flush_buffer() if =5EC is hit.  E -	Try to make cdrecord behave more polite for platforms (like Cygwin)e? 	that don't support large files when the DVD data to be written  	is read from stdin.  " 	mkisofs ... =7C cdrecord ... -=20  , 	will now work for DVDs on non large file OS  ? -	Call flush buffer in silent mode to avoid error messages withD( 	cdrecord -toc called on a CD-ROM drive.  < -	Avoid core dump is a single .inf file is missing and -text 	option is used.  ? -	Data structures modified to allow new features in the future.4  > -	Fixed a bug that caused cdrecord to ignore escaped file type0 	args if they looked like a valid option (e.g.):  ) 		cdrecord dev=3D0,0 -dao -v -- speed=3D8b  B 	=22speed=3D8=22 should be handled as if it was a filename but was	 	skipped.>  * -	Print write mode when starting to write.D 	I hope that this helps me to understand incorrect =22bug reports=22A 	from lazy people who do not include their cdrecord command line.   G -	Printing ATIP information is now caused by a separate (internal) flaga 	and not ny a hack.   @ -	Do not allow to write to ultra low speed RW media if the drive; 	is not able to write at 2x or 1x. This may be circumventedM
 	with -force.   B -	Do not allow to write to high speed RW media if the drive is not= 	a high speed RW drive. This may be circumvented with -force.y  ? -	Data structures modified to allow new features in the future.q  C 	Trying to make driver interface simpler and cleaner. This resultedt, 	in a major rewrite of the driver interface.  7 	-	please test if multi session with TEAC CDR-50/CDR-55e 		still works.  ? 	As a lot has been changed in the driver interface, please testt  	if bugs have been introduced=21  6 -	New test that prevents to write CD-RW media too slow  E -	Display of current DVD write speed now correct and no more based onr) 	single speed CD but on single speed DVD.t  : -	Moving SAO/RAW start code from cdrecord.c into drv_mmc.c- 	allows clean DVD-R/RW driver interface code. B 	Now cdrecord -dao will work correctly (as expected) even for DVDs  1 -	speed=3D option no longer defaults to speed=3D1t> 	Each driver now includes a default speed and a maximum speed.F 	If the maximum speed in the driver is wrong, use -force to overwrite.  A 	Please send feedback if my assumptions on write speed are wrong:   ; 	-	No drive using the Philips CDD-521 command set is fasterW 		or slower than 2xo  = 	-	No drive using the Yamaha CDR-100 driver is faster than 4xe< 		No drive using the Yamaha CDR-100 driver is slower than 2x   	-	The Tayo Yuden CW-50 is 2xk   	-	The Kodak PCD-600 is 6x  C -	Abort when the last track # of a multi session disk would be > 99v  ? -	Data structures modified to allow new features in the future.   F -	Better bessages for CD-RW where the speed ofthe media does not match 	the properties of the writer.  + -	Avoid to reload media in -dummy RAW mode.e  D -	Correctly abort if there was a problem when writing CD-Text in the LEAD-IN.  F -	Again: Data structures modified to allow new features in the future.  E 	This release uses the new data structurec to allow to write ISRC/MCNo
 	in RAW mode.n  A -	Fixed a bug that caused cdrecord to write a wrong relative time-= 	into the subchannel data when writing audio CDs in RAW mode. > 	This affected the pregap sectors if pregap size was =21=3D 0.  6 -	Allow cdrecord to write ISRC & MCN even in RAW mode.  G -	Allow Simulation driver cdr_simul and dvd_simul to simulate any write  	mode.  G -	Simulation driver cdr_simul and dvd_simul changed so no reload on thet 	real background drive occurs.  = -	Since last release , the new data structures allow to writea? 	ISRC/MCN in RAW mode. This now makes RAW mode fully usable forgB 	audio CDs. NOTE: if you find any problems with CDs written in SAO9 	mode, first try to write the same CD in RAW mode if yourc> 	drive supports to write in RAW mode. Tere are a lot of drives= 	that have rotten firmware and create broken CDs in DAO mode.-  4 -	Support for Yahama Audio Master Quality Recording.  9 	This support is switched on via driveropts=3Daudiomaster   5 	I am sorry, but I had to do major changes in the MMC54 	driver in order to be able to support Audio Master.2 	This may have affected all other driveropts=3D=209 	too. Please test and keep in mind that I like to have=20o' 	the mext major release in a few weeks.p  9 	When audiomaster has been specified, BURN-Free recording.7 	is disabled and - as the visible size of the medium=20"6 	decreases - a second disk size check is done after=20! 	Audio Master has been turned on.   - -	man page enhanced according to new features   3 -	Short Usage funtion now includes a hint on how toV5 	obtain the list of possible driveropts=3D parameters    -	Include the tags=20-  7 		=22VARIREC =22, =22AUDIOMASTER =22, =22FORCESPEED =22r  4 	In the =22Driver flags=22 line that is visible with   		cdrecord -checkdrive.a  , -	cdrecord driveropts=3Dhelp now includes=20  ' 	=22varirec=3D=22 and =22audiomaster=22R    = -	Support for writing data sectors in RAW mode has been addeda# 	to the GPL#ed version of cdrecord.e; 	Note that writing data sectors in RAW mode is a highly CPUk= 	intense task. For this reason, cdrecord first checks whether 7 	it would be possible to do the requested job reliably.o; 	If it is questionable whether the job could be done in the 7 	desired speed, cdrecord aborts with a related message.-  ; 	The max theoretical speed (not including the writing load)o@ 	is printed in a new line starting with: =22Encoding speed :=22.$ 	Cdrecord allows half of this speed.  = -	Allow RAW writing of data sectors to work correctly withouts 	the need of specifying -data   ? -	Allow spaces as delimiters between different tags in a singles' 	line in the file /etc/default/cdrecord   * -	Support for Ricoh (and others) Just Link  6 	This support is switched on via driveropts=3Dburnfree  ; 	Note that Just Link is by default swichted on in the drive05 	but as Just Link may create CDs that are no 100% OK, < 	cdrecord now by default switches it off. Now you definitely= 	need to specify driveropts=3Dburnfree to switch Just Link ont 	again.P  8 	If you call cdrecord dev=3D... -checkdrive you will see; 	the TAG =22BURNFREE=22 as a hint that either Burn-Proof or  	Just Link is supported.  ? -	=22Turning .... =22 messages for drive special functiions are  	now printed to stdout  A -	Limited display (once every 1 MB) of the drives internal buffer- 	RAM fill ratio.  D -	Display the minimal drive buffer fill ratio a the end of the write	 	process.b  A -	Display number of predicted drive buffer underruns based on the:D 	fill ratio of the drive buffer (incremented if fill ratio is < 5%).  > -	Display average write speed at the end of the write process.D 	In dao mode, this includes the time needed to write the lead in and- 	thus is not 100& correct (value is too low).3  ? -	Display of the number of times the Buffer underrun protection=E 	has been active for drives where the manufacturer send me the needed=E 	information (Ricoh, Yamaha, Aopen). It may work for other drives too= 	but there is no guarantee.   3 -	Fixed a bug in the driveropts=3D parsing routine.i  J -	New driveropts=3D option =22forcespeed=22. Use with extreme care as thisE 	will force several drives ((Ricoh, Yamaha, Aopen, ...) to write with A 	the selected high speed although the mediaum is too bad for thism 	operation.e  K -	New driveropts=3D option =22tattooinfo=22. Use together with -checkrive =nB 	to retrieve the information about the picture size that will fit.  " 	The result will be someting like:   	DiskT=402 inner r: 265w 	DiskT=402 outer r: 583 ( 	DiskT=402 image size: 3744 x 318 pixel.  L -	New driveropts=3D option =22tattoofile=3D=22. Use together with -checkriv= e=20- 	to write an image of the right size to disk.S   	Read README.DiskT=402  4 -	Rearrange the order of the new statistics printing  D -	Allow several of the new statistics to be printed even if cdrecord 	aborts due to an error.  F -	Let the old Philips drive use the common CD media 'reload' function.  > -	Try to find out if a drive is MMC, MMC-2 or MMC-3 compliant. 	- see cdrecord -checkdriveo  B -	Suppress printing oof the average write speed if the size of the. 	tracks is not known prior to start CD writing  E -	ATIP printing (cdrecord -atip) enhanced to support Ultra high speedo
 	CD-RW media.   C -	Check whether somebody likes to write a Ultra high speed CD-RW on  	an improper writerh  > -	Print MMC conformance level of the drive based on content of 	SCSI mode page 2A.g  F -	Print more information for MMC-2 & MMC-3 drives with cdrecord -prcap  6 -	The new true CAV Plexwriter 482448 is now supported.  H 	Please note that it is not easy to write at 48x. You definitely need=20' 	a correct DMA setup to optimal values.s  C 	Also note switching on Burn-Proof will reduce the max speed to 40x G 	so it may be that you don't need Burn-Proof if you simply reduce speeds 	to 40x manually  I -	make sure that using both -copy and -useinfo will not result in unclears state 4 	Instead the content of the *.inf files will be used  H -	Simulation driver (cdr_simul / dvd_simul) now uses correct speed ratio	 	for DVDs   K -	Simulation driver now supports fake =22Next writable address=22 function.a  @ -	On Linux usleep() is very unacurate, meter the real sleep timeC 	and cumulate a correction value. This allows the simulation drivero% 	to simulate the correct write speed.	  L -	Added a note to Heiko Ei=DFfeldt's libedc when printing RAW encoding spee= dS  A -	Limit gracetime to 999 seconds and make output correct even fort 	times > 9 seconds.	  F -	Corrected a bug in the MMC driver that caused cdrecord to use the=20C 	wrong place for current speed when doing MMC/MMC-3 dependant stuffp  E -	cdrecord -prcap will now use the same format for MMC & MMC-3 drivese" 	rsulting in a better readability.  @ -	Don't print write time statistics if writing did not yet start  A -	Try to handle drives that don't support to write at speed 1 butn4 	will fail if you try to call cdrecord speed=3D1 ...  L -	New option -immed tells cdrecord to set the SCSI =22IMMED=22 flag in cert= aini
 	commands.  D 	This option is not needed if your PC has been configured correctly.? 	However, ATAPI drives usually cannnot do disconnect/reconnect.wI 	As a result, the PC may hang with long lasting commands if the CD-writer(D 	has been connected to the same IDE cable as the harddisk. A correctF 	solution would be to set up a correct cabling but there seem to be=20J 	notebooks around that have been set up the wrong way by the manufacturer.F 	As it is impossible to fix this problem in notebooks, -immed has beenD 	added. Use this option with care and do not expect cdrecord to work- 	correctly if it has been called with -immed.   H -	-force will not completely removeany speed restrictions for writing in RAWrI 	mode. Instead, only the speed that a single CPU allows will be permitted D 	by cdrecord. This still has a high potential for a buffer underrun.E 	By default cdrecord still is limited to half the encoding speed thatCH 	a single CPU allows. Even this may result in a buffer underrun on LinuxL 	as Linux does not use DMA for IDE when the sector size is =21=3D 2048 byte= su! 	which is true in RAW write mode.c  L -	If the environment variable =22CDR_FORCERAWSPEED=22 is set, this will hav= e I 	the same results for RAW speed as using -force. However, -force has moren' 	general effects and should be avoided.i  D -	Fixed a bug in fifo.c introduced with the driver interface change.3 	Now cdrecord compiles again on VMS (without FIFO).c 	Thanks to Eberhard Heuser.a  * -	Allow cdrecord to compile without libedc 	Thanks to Eberhard Heuser.d  * -	Run read buffer capacity in silent mode.C 	This is needed because drives with buggy firmware like the CW-7585eJ 	did cause hundreds of =22command sequence erorrs=22 to be emmited when=204 	trying to read the current drive buffer fill ratio. =09e< -	Fixed man page to correctly call SAO mode SAO and not DAO.  < -	Encoding speed is contend dependant. Initalize test buffer@ 	before doing a libedc speed test to make the result independant 	from grabage on the stack.e    -	Support for libscg help system  K -	Warn to use cdrecord blank=3Dall if a drive rejects cdrecord blank=3Dfastk  J -	Fixed a bug that became obvious with Yamaha AudioMaster mode and CD-TextB 	The problem was caused by the fact that cdrecord did not allow to	 overwrite ? 	the lead in start time in cdrecord's internal data structures.   C -	Fixed a bug with recognition of complete disks that came up afterm cdrecord, 	did allow to deal with >=3D 90 minute CD's.  L -	Changed Text =22BURN-Free was not used=22 to =22BURN-Free was never neede= d=22 becausecD 	people did believe that the old text means that Burn-Proof has been	 disabled.   J -	Man page now includes a hint that padsize is always using 2048 as sector size.n  C -	Fixed a bug with padsize=3Dxxx if sector size was not 2048 bytes. E 	Cdrecord in this case did just divide the number of pad bytes by the E 	number of bytes in an output sized sector (e.g. 2448 or 2352 bytes).r8 	This did result in a too low number of padding sectors.< 	The fix caused a complete rewrite of the pad size handling.  F -	Treat packet mode similar to normal writing: Print Drive buffer fill ratio=20 	and current write speed.t  H -	Treat padding similar to normal writing: Print Drive buffer fill ratio and=20 	current write speed.t  2 -	Make verbose printing consistent and non-jumping  6 -	A new experimental feature of the -immed flag is  to8 	tell  cdrecord  to try to wait short times wile writing8 	to the media. This is expected to free the IDE  bus  if8 	the  CD/DVD writer and the data source are connected to8 	the same IDE cable. In this  case,  the  CD/DVD  writer8 	would  otherwise  usually  block the IDE bus for nearly8 	all the time making it impossible to  fetch  data  from 	the source drive.  B 	As this is an experimental feature, I would like to get feedback.    ? -	#ifdef _POSIX_MEMLOCK/_POSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING Tests now=20  	POSIX 2001 compliantO  D -	Do not try to close fd if running on an OS that does not use an fd. 	to mmap() chared memory from anonymous pages.  C -	Print Orange Forum embargo warning only if ATIP minutes =3D=3D 97 3 	because some DVD writer return junk with read ATIPA  D -	New option minbuf=3D to choose the mininum drive buffer fill ratio@ 	for the ATAPI wait option that is intended to forcibly free the> 	IDE bus to avoid buffer underruns with bad HW configurations.> 	The permitted range is 25..95 for 25%..95% buffer fill ratio.  @ -	minbuf=3D may switch on the ATAPI wait option without enabling 	the SCSI Immed option.l  A -	Forcibly switch on -v for now if the ATAPI wait option has been-@ 	selected. This is needed because due to a bug, this option will 	not work without -v    -	Make FIFO code work on AmigaOS    4 For Yamaha Disk Tatoo features read README.DiskT=402  K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --*/  0 Cdda2wav (By Heiko Ei=DFfeldt heiko=40hexco.de):  9 -	Changes to make cdda2wav compile better on Alpha/True64i  H -	Restructured to better use the schily makefile portability structures.  A -	Changed handling of Table of contents. Now the more informativerI 	methods of Read full toc are being used in favor to the old SCSI readtocl; 	command. For Sony methods, the fallback is the old method.2C 	The new methods are available on MMC drives and modern drives with	H 	Sony command sets. It should enhance access to very weird multi session 	cds.m   	**************oD 	NOTE: If your drive still has problems to copy such non-CD's, there? 	is a simple hack to allow the disk to be copied on all drives:   > 	Use a (black) whiteboard pen (non-permanent) and paint on theA 	space directly outside the visible ring that is in the middle=20d? 	of the non-CD. This is the space where the broken TOC from theg 	second session is located.o  > 	After doing the copy please return the disk to the dealer and@ 	tell the dealer that this is broken goods. This is the only way1 	to stop the big groups to defraud the customers.o 	*************  C -	Temporary hack to fix a bug in the ISRC code that caused the ISRCr) 	string to be shortened by one character.t  % -	fixed ioctl handling of toc entrieso  ( -	checked ISRC retrieval (MMC + Plextor)  4 -	more checking for weird CDs with wrong track types   -	bugfix in setuid.c  = -	read full toc method extended to a data track in the seconds- 	session for cd-extra/enhanced cd recognition.  @ -	if the tracks in the TOC are labelled as data, this is checked 	and corrected if untrue  0 -	show cd text disc identification, if one exist  A -	a new perl script to generate a binary cdtext file for use with ? 	cdrecord. This is currently very simple, but it enables you tot; 	create cd-text enriched copies from non cd-text originals. C 	For a hint how to use the new perl script see the CD-text usage=20l
 	notes above.e    > -	New option -L to ask freedb.freedb.org for CDDB information.2 	This alllows to automatically create CD-Text CDs.  4 -	correct TOC endianess for FreeBSD ioctl interface.  < -	Fixed a bug that caused cdda2wav to dump core with certain 	CD-Text data.  ; -	new option -L changed. Now a numerical parameter (0 or 1)M0 	defines the handling of multiple cddbp entries.  	0 enters user interactive mode.( 	1 take the first entry unconditionally.B 	I still need a reasonable way for gui interaction in this case=21 	Proposals are welcome.t  5 -	made cddbp handling for mixed mode cds more robust.n= 	It is unclear yet, if data tracks have to be included in theo, 	query. Anybody knows the definitive answer?  * -	Better TOC ADDR/CRTL (red book) handling  $ -	Better method to scan for indices.  ! -	Support for SCMS in *.inf filess   -	Better SUID/SGID handling    -	new script cddda2ogg  1 -	bugfix deemphasizing (thanks to Klaus Wolterec).  0 -	bugfix rounding error (creation of info files)  * -	added AlbumPerformer entry in info files  $ -	integration of Monty's libparanoia  + -	switch to J=F6rgs getargs option handling=  B -	Fix some bugs with option parsing introduced with the new option 	parsing using getargs()  5 -	New option -version to make cdrtools behave similaru  2 -	New option paraopts=3Dopts for paranoia options.  9 -	Print Paranoia statistics result at end of every track.o  9 -	prepare for better recording of discs with illegal TOCsh  + -	prepare for non-english cd_text languagesa  < -	rewrite of the TOC handling code (now multisession capable 	and much more robust)  3 -	add a fallback method (shmat()) for failed mmap()r  E -	linux bug workaround: open() sound device does block when device isa busy.   9 -	several code cleanups, some 64-bit portability bugfixesl  F -	Fixed shell script 'cdda2mp3.new' to correctly use =22#=21/bin/sh=22  D -	Fixed a bug (introduced while converting to getargs()) that caused: 	cdda2wav to dump core on OS that implement read only text; 	correctly like Solaris does) if compled with gcc or Sun CCk COPTX=3D-xstrconst  " -	Remove old unused getopt() code.   -	Check DMA residual count  6 -	FreeBSD cooked ioctl() Byte swapping now finally OK?  < -	Fixed a bug that caused cdda2wav to return wrong byteorder7 	on Big endian machines if -paranoia has been specifieda   -	fix several CDDB query bugsl -	support CDDBP protocol 5  . -	customizable CDDBP server and port settings.  6 -	Fixed a bug in the paranoia calling code that caused: 	cdda2wav to try to access one sector too far on the media 	if in paranoia mode.   $ -	Allow again compilation on FreeBSD  ; -	bugfix for CD Extra, when copyright messages were presento  7 -	patch from Kyle to make CD extra handling more robustM  @ -	bugfix for wrong warning message 'no generation of info files' 	due to incomplete length	  : -	new verbose suboptions. Strings will finally replace the; 	tedious binary masks. For script compatibility the speciale4 	form of -v255 will be recognized for some releases." 	-vhelp will show the new strings.; -	reworked the toc display code to make it more orthogonal.S  ; -       changed option 'speed-select' to 'speed' for bettera interoperability  E -	Temporary added -v<number> for compatibility with old GUI programs.f7 	Note: -v<number> is outdated and will be removed soon.r  < -	Implement a temporary compatibility bug for the -v option.    -	Support for libscg help system   -	Man page fixed  # -	Fix for an uninitialized variablen   -	New exit codes for xcdroast   > -	Fix for a CDDB bug: need to use lead out start for play time  / -	Fix for a CDDB bug: Allow whitepsace in Genrep  3 -	Fix for a CDDB bug: need to count data tracks too2  K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------w --*/   Readcd:s  % -	better error recovery with -noerror    -	error handling increased  > -	Handle signals and other aborts by restoring old drive state   -	Set PF bit with mode select.  ; -	New option -quiet to suppress primary SCSI error messagesi 	in read CD error handling; 	This are the messages that are printed before entering ther 	retry mode.  > -	Secondary SCSI error messages are now suppressed by default,- 	they may be turned on again with -verbose=20h3 	This are the messages that are printed in -noerror  	retry mode.  7 -	Better handling of C2 scans on unreadable data disks.   > -	use comerrno() instead of comerr() if the drive is not ready' 	as errno is not valid after that test.   $ -	Enhanced output for C2 error scan.  > -	Now use /etc/default/cdrecord as documented in the man page.  4 -	Better behavior with extreme badly readable media.  = -	List number of completely unreadable sectors in addition to  	the C2 error count.  ) -	Man page updated to contain all options	  K -	New option speed=3D to allow reading at slower speed and avoid read error # 	caused by vibrations of the media..  F -	added new option -overhead to meter SCSI command execution overhead.  K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------	 --*/  	 Scgcheck:   4 -	Fixed Makefile so scgcheck now compiles on FreeBSD  K /*-------------------------------------------------------------------------t --*/  I Mkisofs (By J=F6rg Schilling and James Pearson j.pearson=40ge.ucl.ac.uk):n  ! -	Man page updated and corrected.   C -	Try to avoid the C-compiler warnings for getopt.c that are caused 8 	by the non-confirming way of hacking used by FSF people  9 -	isoinfo now corectly displays file with filesize > 1 GBt  ? -	isoinfo now implements a new option -s that displays the size : 	of the files in multiples of the sector size (2048 Bytes)  H -	libhfs_iso reworked to use timedefs.h from schily portability support.  F -	Better error messages for ISO and Rock Ridge directory sort problems  J -	Preserves HFS file dates for AppleDouble, AppleSingle and NetaTalk files  = -	Fixed a problem from an uninitialized variable in desktop.cn) 	that caused random effects in Apple CD's	  E -	better documentation for README.sort/README.hide from James PearsonE  E -	Fixed a bug in sort code that caused the compare function to behave ( 	symmetric when called c(a,b) vs. c(b,a)  A -	First UDF support via -udf option - thanks to Ben Rudiak-Gould.   H 	Note that the UDF support is not what you might indend. It is currentlyC 	wired to the Joliet tree which is a bad idea. It also does not yet / 	support Symbolic Links, user ID's and similar.-  H -	Write messages with more correct size names for the floppy eltorito=20 	boot images  ' -	Added a missing prototype in getopt.cn   -	isodump.c isoinfo.c isovfy.c:g 	Correctly handle symlinksB 	use offsetof(struct iso_directory_record, name=5B0=5D) instead of8 	sizeof(struct iso_directory_record) - sizeof(idr->name)  : -	Fixed a check in the Apple HFS code that used strcmp for$ 	data that could contain null bytes.  / -	Introduced many casts to enhance portability.fE 	This was needed for GNU fnmatch.c and the HFS support lib libhfs_iso   J -	Use Protoyped function definitions for hash.c to allow old UNIX variants% 	where sizeof(dev_t) is < sizeof(int)o  : -	Fixed a check in the Apple HFS code that used strcmp for$ 	data that could contain null bytes.  / -	Introduced many casts to enhance portability.rE 	This was needed for GNU fnmatch.c and the HFS support lib libhfs_isoy  J -	Use Protoyped function definitions for hash.c to allow old UNIX variants% 	where sizeof(dev_t) is < sizeof(int)y  B -	Support generic boot code if session does not start at sector 0.  3 -	Fixed a minor bug with HFS labels & multi-sessione 	Thanks to James Pearson  = -	Only print a short Usage if mkisofs detected a usage error.   H -	-z option now working to create CDs in a format with Linux proprietary3 	Rock Ridge extensions for transparent compression.2  G 	This is a patch from H.P. Anvin. It makes only sense with Linux-2.4.14M
 	or later.   -	New option -debugs  0 -	Correctly use stat()/lstat() with graft points  E -	Fixed a bug with escape character handling in graft point handling.2  A -	Make the graft point a directory if the file it should point tod 	is a directory.  = -	Correctly handle non-canonical filenames with graft points.r  @ 	.////././///test=3DOBJ/sparc-sunos5-cc/ will now work correctly. 	and not result in a corrupted ISO-Filesystem.  - -	Canonicalize graft points so commands like:e  . 		mkisofs -graft-points /a/b/././//=3Dsome_dir 	and- 		mkisofs -graft-points /a/b/../c/=3Dsome_dira  * 	will not cause broken ISO images anymore.  : -	Avoid unwanted information in debug information on disk.  A -	Allow the -sort option to work with the Eltorito Boot Catalogues  D -	Allow '-' to be part of the ISO-9660 filename if -no-iso-translate 	has been specified.=20eC 	Thanks for this hint from Georgy Salnikov (sge=40nmr.nioch.nsc.ru)  	from Novosibirsk, Russia.  > -	Try to avoid an integer overflow with the -C option and DVDs  C -	Try to fix (very old) rotten code in various files that did cause * 	integer overflows for files > 2 GB - 2kB.  > 	Inconsistent use of (always diferent) hand crufted code using< 	2048, 2047, ... instead of SECTOR_SIZE, ISO_ROUND_UP(), ...  A 	Note that this is not only of interest for DVDs as mkisofs couldr/ 	believe that > 2 GB of data would fit on a CD.e  $ -	New code to print file type names.  B -	Some more changes to reduce the probability of integer overflows 	in size computations.  A -	Fixed a bug in the code that removes sensitive information fromo 	the command line.  J -	Add text strings with descritpive text to the output_fragment structures  > -	verbose > 1 (use -v) writes debug info for output fragments.< 	This uses the new strings introduced with the last version.  < -	isoinfo now uses getargs() and includes -version and -help	 	options.m  < -	isoinfo now is able to find out that Joliet information isA 	present if the disk contains illegal Joliet UNICODE escape code.T? 	This seem to happen with disks written with Adaptecs programs.n  < -	isoinfo has new option -debug that prints more information$ 	from the Primary volume descriptor.  < -	Support for Apple HFS on Mac OS X Thanks to James Pearson.  D -	Support for more then 65535 directories as only the parent entries" 	need to fit into the path tables.  B -	Full DVD-Video support thanks to Olaf Beck - olaf_sc=40yahoo.com  / -	Avoid a C-compler warning caused by mkisofs.he  ? -	Fixed a bug in the DEBUG code from the DVD-Video enhancements   . -	Allow symlink targets to be up to 1024 bytes  J -	devdump/isodump/isovfy now use getallargs() and implement -help/-version  D -	If UDF but no Joliet is used, UDF filenames may be 255 chars long. 	Note that this is still hack.  J -	From James: New option -joliet-long to allow 103 UNICODE characters with@ 	Joliet. This is not Joliet compliant but several other programs 	also create long Joliet names.m  . -	Fixed a minor C non-compliance in ifo_read.c  . -	Allow symlink targets to be up to 1024 bytes  J -	devdump/isodump/isovfy now use getallargs() and implement -help/-version  D -	If UDF but no Joliet is used, UDF filenames may be 255 chars long. 	Note that this is still hack.  J -	From James: New option -joliet-long to allow 103 UNICODE characters with@ 	Joliet. This is not Joliet compliant but several other programs 	also create long Joliet names.h  = -	Correct a minor problem with K&R compilers for the programse 	in mkisofs/diag/E  1 -	Make fire PATH_MAX is defined in isoinfo.c too.u  C -	Make sure UDF directory permissions include 'execute permission'.t  J -	A patch from James that make mkisofs able to create a HFS volume < 4 GB.  > -	Support for MS code page 1250 (Slavic/Central Europe) added.% 	Thanks to Petr Balas petr=40balas.cz   J -	A patch from James that make mkisofs able to create a HFS volume > 4 GB.  G -	A new option -hfs-parms for better HFS support for HFS volumes > 4 GB  	from James Pearson1  4 -	Fixed several typos in the man page and the source  ? -	Belly based speudo fix for a problem with mkisofs -f (follow)s; 	and symlinks to directories where directory content was=20	D 	missing with the old version. The new version is most likely betterC 	and we (James and I) could not find problems with the new version.   L -	Make =22HFS_TYPE=22 and =22HFS_CREATOR=22 work as documented in =7E/.mkis= ofsrcs  " -	Fixed a small typo in isofinfo.c  I -	As mkisofs -f has bugs that cannot be fixed for this release, I decided	E 	to mark the '-f' Option as non-functional. People who use it will bec warned! 	that it does not work correctly.2  F -	Sort VIDEO_TS.IFO to be the first entry in VIDEO_TS/ woth -dvd-video  H -	Disable Joliet if -dvd-video has been specified. This needs to be done to 	allow the change above.  5 -	Correctly handle files > 1GB on the UDF filesystem.o= 	Thanks to Wei DING <ding=40memory-tech.co.jp> for the patch.o    -	Add support for Code Page 1251   -	Koi8-u added to libunlsn  A -	Fix a nasty bug in the UDF handling part that caused mkisofs toeD 	create completely broken filesystem images if directories have been4 	nested deeper than 8 and -D has not been specified.  B -	Include a new piece of code that causes mkisofs to abort with an? 	error message if it turns out that the block numbers estimatede> 	during the sizing phase do not match the block numbers in the
 	write phase.n  G -	Enabled a piece of code that has been introduced 2 years ago and thatdB 	causes mkisofs to prevent deep directory relocation if Rock Ridge 	has not been spacified.  D 	If you like mkisofs not to omit the part of the directory tree that1 	is nested too deep, specify either -R, -r or -D.      TODO: ; 	-	read Joliet filenames with multi-session if no TRANS.TBLl? 		or RR is present. I am looking for a volouteer for this task:5A 		Peter Berendi <berendi2=40webdesign.hu> announced that he likesc% 		to be the volounteer for this task.D  8 		Unfortunately, I did no hear again from him, but I got 		a proposal from 3 		=22Krisztian Gede=22 <nameless=40mail.datanet.hu>o 		who also likes to do the job.o  B 		Note that this can never be 100% correct as there is no relationA 		between the names on the master (UNIX) filesystem, the ISO-9660 ; 		names and the Joliet names. Only the Rock Ridge names arec8 		untranslated with respect to the original files on the 		master (UNIX) filesystem.e  = 	-	implement Yellow book compliant XA extended dir attributes1  & 	-	add libecc/edc for CDI and similar.7 		This may not be needed if we ise VCDimager and recentt 		cdrecord versions.     CYGWIN NT-4.0 NOTES:  2 To compile on Cygwin32, get Cygwin and install it.& For more information read README.win32   The files are located on:e  + ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/alpha ...s  J NOTE:	These tar archives are 100% ansi compatible. Solaris 2.x tar and GNU  	tar may get some minor trouble.  3 WARNING: Do not use 'mc' to extract the tar file=21yG 	All mc versions before 4.0.14 cannot extract symbolic links correctly.   7 WARNING: Do not use 'winzip' to extract the tar file=21e0 	Winzip cannot extract symbolic links correctly.   J=F6rg  J  EMail:joerg=40schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) J=F6rg Schilling D-13353 Berlin@        js=40cs.tu-berlin.de		(uni)  If you don't have iso-8859-1D        schilling=40fokus.fhg.de		(work) chars I am J=22org Schilling0  URL:  http://www.fokus.fhg.de/usr/schilling =20 ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schilyt     --=20n; To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to cdwrite-request=40other.debian.orgi5 with a subject of =22unsubscribe=22. Trouble? ContactI listmaster=40other.debian.orgr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:38:03 -0800t& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com>< Subject: Re: HP/INTEL Migration to Itanium Competence Center/ Message-ID: <v0p3vbkcon3128@corp.supernews.com>i   Bill Todd wrote:5 > "Greg Cagle" <gregc@gregcagle.com> wrote in messagee+ > news:v0ncuig9tmb6a0@corp.supernews.com...D >  >>Shane Smith wrote: >>E >>>Some of the gamer websites I frequent have mentioned seeing 64-bitrK >>>Windows pre-release copies. I don't know how pre-release though. This isoE >>>how the Hammer support was first noticed; there were references tooI >>>hammer in one of the files in the distribution. Since there are ItanicaG >>>machines out there but no Hammers, they must have been running it on 
 >>>Itanic. >>' >>I have seen Windows 64 betas for IPF.g >  > K > The claim was made in another newsgroup that while no full-fledged server=M > 64-bit version of Windows existed yet (the closest thing being the 'LimitediM > Edition' of Win2K Advanced Server), a real 64-bit version of WinXP Pro (theeL > workstation version) was released over a year ago.  That surprised me, butN > no one came forth to dispute it (though that doesn't prove it was accurate).  N If they meant that a "real 64-bit version" of WinXP Pro Workstation *for IPF*,L I'll dispute it. I've seen betas of .NET and XP Pro Workstation for IPF, butJ only recently. No one to my knowledge has shipped any official version of H Windows for IPF to date. Certainly HP hasn't, and it has the most vested7 interest and is shipping the workstations that need it.o   -- e
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 06:07:56 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?e= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212270607.1887fb34@posting.google.com>t  e bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...o? > In article <b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>, 3 > 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:D > > B > > Use DFU if you can. It is the best tool I've seen for deletingA > > directory trees. You can get if from the Freeware CD which isoH > > available at www.openvms.compaq.com. And David can tell you where to  > > get the v2.7-1 patch for it. > K > And if we're accepting alternate locally written (as in not a part of thedJ > comercial OS) solutions, I can write a simple script that will mimic theL > "rm" command and use much longer but more english-like options in minutes. > I > But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so1  5 Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean?    I > to is trying to make Unix look like something it's not.  Slows down theKJ > learning curve and is non-portable to other people's machines. (hint, ifK > you came to my site and the only way you knew to delete whole directoriesuI > full of files was DFU, what would you do when you didn't find DFU on myt > systems??)  6 1.) The odds of my coming to your site are very small.  D 2.) The odds of my forgetting how to delete directory trees are alsoD very small. In fact, if I forgot that, I probably also forgot how to walk and talk.  C 3.) Assuming I came to your site and forgot how to delete directoryeD trees (the odds of which are incredibly small), I would learn how toE do it! Or, I would simply download and install DFU. How long could itoA take to learn it, or download it? OK, download and set up takes ae. little while, but you only have to do it once.  8 Are you saying that the whole Freeware CD is a bad idea?  D What am I supposed to do? Do everything the hard way? I should wasteE hours of my time deleting directory trees the DEL way? Why? For what?d= And how often does one have to delete directory trees anyway?a  E Should I walk 4 miles to work every day instead of taking the subway,lB just in case there's a strike? (And there almost was one about two weeks ago!),  * What would I do? I think I'd do all right.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:13:01 -0500k5 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>e' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?sO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>a  G I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS notiD LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promotesG lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diffeH account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think aboutI trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correcti VMS command to do something.   A   -----Original Message-----= From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com [mailto:spamsink2001@yahoo.com]  ' Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 9:08 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?d    3 bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message21 news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>... ? > In article <b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>,i3 > 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:n > > C > > Use DFU if you can. It is the best tool I've seen for deleting sB > > directory trees. You can get if from the Freeware CD which is I > > available at www.openvms.compaq.com. And David can tell you where to n  > > get the v2.7-1 patch for it. > H > And if we're accepting alternate locally written (as in not a part of E > the comercial OS) solutions, I can write a simple script that will tC > mimic the "rm" command and use much longer but more english-like n > options in minutes.i > G > But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, o > so  5 Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean? o  F > to is trying to make Unix look like something it's not.  Slows down E > the learning curve and is non-portable to other people's machines. eD > (hint, if you came to my site and the only way you knew to delete F > whole directories full of files was DFU, what would you do when you  > didn't find DFU on myh > systems??)    I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged andyJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication isrJ strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/oreJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:09:26 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t0 Message-ID: <00A19110.219B1B38@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <augh59$73t0o$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:1 >In article <00A19065.E54D3E50@sendspamhere.org>,=$ >	VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:c >> In article <auf51p$6p5ec$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:D* >>>In article <3E093DE0.A472DC87@fsi.net>,7 >>>	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:l >>>>   >>>>  6 >>>> $ BACKUP/DELETE [mydir...]*.*;* nla0:null.sav/sav >>>> e >>>hM >>>Using the BACKUP command to delete files.  Now that's intuitively obvious.p@ >>>And I'll bet well documented inthe HELP command too.      :-) >> r% >> Nearly as intuitive as "rm -r dir"s > G >I can interpolate the command "remove -recursive dir" from "rm -r dir"rH >probably comes from figuring out all those silly vanity plates when I'm  >driving back and forth to work. >tI >Who in their right mind would assume to use the BACKUP command to DELETE  >files??  ! Ne'er said I would assume that.     J I don't believe that somebody not well versed in unix "crytology" would beC able to "interpolate" "rm -r dir" to mean "remove -recursive dir". r --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" r   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 15:16:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t5 Message-ID: <auhqsm$7cni1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>e  0 In article <auhg8h$sib$1@sparta.btinternet.com>,% 	"matt" <matt987@hotmail.com> writes:  >  >  > Some people of course put: > ! >     $ DEL*ETE=="DELETE/CONFIRM"o > H > in their LOGIN.COM (or worse, system manglers put it in SYLOGIN) which. > buggers up DELETE/QUEUE and DELETE/SYMBOL !)  E And, believe it or not, many Unix systems redefine "rm" to be "rm -i"tC which also prevents the dreaded "rm -r *" error.  In the hands of aaE competent Admin, Unix is no worse than any other OS and is frequentlyeC more powerful.  That's why the use of Unix is growing while so manyyA others are fading and a number too large to list have disappearedp	 entirely.n   bill    -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:23:18 GMTd" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?e0 Message-ID: <00A1911A.72E33140@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:>H >I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS notE >LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promotesdH >lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diffI >account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think aboutsJ >trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correct  >VMS command to do something.     J A long long time ago I wrote a utility called PERMANENT and released it to2 the freeware archive maintained by Hunter Goatley.  J I originally used this utility to create unix command symbols on VMS such  as:o  
 $ LS == "" $ PERMANENT LS
 $ CD == "" $ PERMANENT CD $ GREP == "" $ PERMANENT GREP  H and so on in the SYLOGIN.COM file of the systems I managed.  This forcedH all of the unix types in service to the DoD to have to learn to use VMS!F PERMANENT creates permanent DCL symbols such as $STATUS that cannot be% deleted.  So, when a unix type enterst   $ GREP gobbledegookt  	 they get:e  F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \GREP\r  ( And, any attempt to redefine it such as:   $ GREP == SEARCH   yields:   = %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingi	  \SEARCH\t      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMb            h5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" B   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 15:52:54 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?u5 Message-ID: <auht0l$768v1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>3  = In article <b096a4ee.0212270607.1887fb34@posting.google.com>,e1 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: g > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...e@ >> In article <b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>,4 >> 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >> > aC >> > Use DFU if you can. It is the best tool I've seen for deleting B >> > directory trees. You can get if from the Freeware CD which isI >> > available at www.openvms.compaq.com. And David can tell you where tow! >> > get the v2.7-1 patch for it.e >> dL >> And if we're accepting alternate locally written (as in not a part of theK >> comercial OS) solutions, I can write a simple script that will mimic therM >> "rm" command and use much longer but more english-like options in minutes.I >> iJ >> But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so > 7 > Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean? l   $cd :== set deft $rm :== delete: $vi :== "EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SYS$USERDISK:[BOB237]EDTINI.EDT"   And so on.....  @ Surely you saw other people mention this here the last time this topic made the rounds.   > J >> to is trying to make Unix look like something it's not.  Slows down theK >> learning curve and is non-portable to other people's machines. (hint, iftL >> you came to my site and the only way you knew to delete whole directoriesJ >> full of files was DFU, what would you do when you didn't find DFU on my
 >> systems??)c > 8 > 1.) The odds of my coming to your site are very small.  A True, but some people's jobs require them to frequently visit andsA work at sites other than their home.  But, if you came to my site3A and exepected to find a "cd" or "rm" command on VMS, you would bed unpleasantly surprised.f   > F > 2.) The odds of my forgetting how to delete directory trees are alsoF > very small. In fact, if I forgot that, I probably also forgot how to > walk and talk.  G But you are a long time VMS user and most likely an Admin.  Can you sayoF the same thing about all the people who use the machines you service??   > E > 3.) Assuming I came to your site and forgot how to delete directoryrF > trees (the odds of which are incredibly small), I would learn how toG > do it! Or, I would simply download and install DFU. How long could it C > take to learn it, or download it? OK, download and set up takes a 0 > little while, but you only have to do it once.  D Say what??  You would take it upon yourself to just install whateverE you felt like on someone else's system??  Before moving into academia B I used to work for some major government contractors. I frequentlyG went to places like the Pentagon, DTSA and other agencies with acronymstA for names.  Can you even imagine what would have happened if theySF found me trying to install anything other than what I was there for onF one of their machines??  And, I can assure you that while I don't haveB legal power they do, if I had someone come in here to do some workH and found him trying to install unrelated software on one of my machinesG he would find himself in the parking lot so fast he would have frictioneD burns from the air he passed thru.  And he would find a very unhappyH boss waiting for him when he got back to his office as well.  VMS peopleH are always talking about security.  How secure is a system if any vendor@ of the street can install any program he wants when he visits??    > : > Are you saying that the whole Freeware CD is a bad idea?  D No.  But I know people (like the data center here) who do not freelyB install anything that is non-commercial.  Somehow, I can't imagineC them letting outsiders install anything they please when they won't D install it themselves for the use of their regular users.  And I canC think of others (like those mentioned above) who would be even more  adamant.   > F > What am I supposed to do? Do everything the hard way? I should wasteG > hours of my time deleting directory trees the DEL way? Why? For what?a  B The VMS engineers apparently didn't see it as so difficult or they+ would have built in an easier way to do it.o    ? > And how often does one have to delete directory trees anyway?e  C I didn't originate the example.  I'm just trying to show how absurd @ the arguments regarding which (VMS vs. Unix) is better or worse.@ And, as most here are bound to remember, I don't think either isA better or worse, only different.  Two different approaches to thes same destination.l   > G > Should I walk 4 miles to work every day instead of taking the subway,sD > just in case there's a strike? (And there almost was one about two
 > weeks ago!)s  C But that justifies what I said above.  When they put in the subway,dG they didn't remove all the sidewalks.  And yet, the subway is obviouslylB easier.  And you know what, I'll bet there actually are people whoA prefer to walk even though they have the subway right below them.e Are they wrong??   > , > What would I do? I think I'd do all right.  B Use the system that is best for you and accept the fact that thereC are alternatives and that they're being different doesn't make themk wrong, just different.   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   w   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 10:15:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <yPw9KMz8dFP4@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  ` In article <auht0l$768v1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:? > In article <b096a4ee.0212270607.1887fb34@posting.google.com>,D3 > 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: h >> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...  K >>> But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, som >> l8 >> Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean?  >  > $cd :== set def  > $rm :== delete< > $vi :== "EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SYS$USERDISK:[BOB237]EDTINI.EDT" >  > And so on.....  @ Those are DCL symbols, not logical names.  There are significant differences.  B > Surely you saw other people mention this here the last time this > topic made the rounds.  G You underestimate the strongly appealing notion of skipping topics likee this.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:23:58 -0000.! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>n' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?f/ Message-ID: <v0ovkurn7ush97@corp.supernews.com>	  ! VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:fL : I don't believe that somebody not well versed in unix "crytology" would beE : able to "interpolate" "rm -r dir" to mean "remove -recursive dir". i  < I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours.   man rm ...gD -R          Attempt to remove the file hierarchy rooted in each fileF             argument.  The -R option implies the -d option.  If the -iF             option is specified, the user is prompted for confirmationF             before each directory's contents are processed (as well asH             before the attempt is made to remove the directory).  If theC             user does not respond affirmatively, the file hierarchym0             rooted in that directory is skipped.   -r          Equivalent to -R.u ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:25:17 -0000l! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>y' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?i/ Message-ID: <v0ovnd9c67c0c2@corp.supernews.com>s  ) Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:nG : And, believe it or not, many Unix systems redefine "rm" to be "rm -i"nE : which also prevents the dreaded "rm -r *" error.  In the hands of acG : competent Admin, Unix is no worse than any other OS and is frequentlyyE : more powerful.  That's why the use of Unix is growing while so manyoC : others are fading and a number too large to list have disappeareda : entirely.b  E Unix user count isn't growing because Unix is more opwerful than VMS.s   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 10:33:31 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?l3 Message-ID: <6sWBm5K1PAVC@eisner.encompasserve.org>x   In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:eI > I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS not F > LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promotesI > lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diffoJ > account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think aboutK > trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correcto! > VMS command to do something.   i >   = 	Another fellow here has a  command for everything.  I'm sureg& 	many of us have something similar to:   	$ sq :== show queue  = 	We are saving keystrokes, nothing wrong with that.  Unix has ? 	you saving keystrokes up front and forcing you to remember theo
 	insanity.  A 	In the "why Unix sucks wars" we end up at the shell or CLI.  TheBD 	reasons are there in a minor sense, but not many.  The real reasons? 	Unix is inferior are deeper than the CLI and Unix is now less n> 	inferior as Sun almost has a good cluster now it appears.  OrE 	good marketing.  Didn't Sun recently invent long distant clustering?r  ) http://news.com.com/2100-1001-963615.htmlc   October 28, 2002  K "Sun Microsystems has come up with a way to insulate computer networks fromsO fires, floods and bomb attacks: Split up the machines and put them in differentC	 cities. "d   				Rob     L "UNIX is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are inG UNIX, then they must be bad.  Sorry, I don't believe in this religion."   O                                               -- Dave Cutler, NT lead ArchitectrJ                                                  UNIXWorld - February 1992   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 17:09:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <aui1g7$7g223$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>.  / In article <v0nl21ngk69f4c@corp.supernews.com>,e5 	"Stuart Johnson" <ssj152 AT charter DOT net> writes:i > M > Folks, I think that we are not mentioning the real strengths of VMS (DCL is L > what is being discussed) over other operating systems by laboring over theM > commands to delete a directory. Consider the following features of VMS (not  > in any real order):o > K > Virtually all installed programs have an entry in the online help system.-L > Certainly all of the OS specific and HP/Compaq supplied "layered products" > programs do.  I And this is different from other OSes in what way??  Or are you comparing F commercial programs under VMS to freeware under other OSes??  (Most ofC which also have online documentation, some of it rather extensive.)i   > L > Virtually all programs have release notes that mention the major and minorI > version numbers of the software and are available for all to read. ThisGA > assists with software inventory, debugging, new features, etc..z   Same as above!!n   > N > Most VMS software use license packs, which are not simply cryptic strings ofL > printable characters. They are structured in format and operated on with aH > standard tool (LMF). License packs can be operated on with commands toM > generate lists of current or expired licenses, licenses by vendor (author),i > etc.  A Also true of other OSes that actually support some form of forcedcB license scheme.  Of course, just as there with other OSes, I couldD provide a package for VMS that would use my own licensing scheme andC then your argument falls apart.  And because of the additional costoD required in order to run the software needed to generate PAKs, thereD is a pretty good excuse for someone (especially a small shop) to not use it.a   > M > The online help documents all installed software and qualifiers and usually 0 > gives examples of command and qualifier usage.  @ Well, I went over to the Alpha run by the datacenter for general? academic use to find examples that countered your argument, butlB it seems that one of my previous arguments has made this one moot.D We used to have "vmstar", "emacs", "kermit" and "GhostScript" (amongA others) available on the system.  I know that there was no "HELP" A available for "vmstar", "emacs", or "GhostScript".  But, being aseC none of these are even available anymore, I guess your right, theret= probably is HELP available for everything on the system.  :-)s   > / > Error messages are designed to be meaningful    D And which none VMS error messages are not meaningful??  Probably the( two most common Unix error messages are:@             "No such file or directory" and "Command not found."   Seem pretty meaningful to me.S  H >                                              and all system errors are > documented in manuals   D And what OS is this not true for??   And if you meant paper manuals,B how many does VMS ship with today??  Or did you mean the CD??  HowB many sites have extra CD drives available just to keep the manualsA on line at all times??  (hint: not here!!)  If the manuals aren'toE available, listing all the system errors inthem is not of much value.   N >                       and can be decoded online via simple lexical commands.  B I'l grant you that one, but then, my experience is with Unix whereA they may be curt, but they are in english. (see above.  :-)  I amuB sure that on systems that print out cryptic codes there is usuallyA a command to interpret them.  Maybe I should dig up an old Primos # manual and see how they handled it.c  A > User programs can easily be written to use the same facilities.r  ? Again, on which system is this not possible??  While internallyd< Unix returns numeric error codes I have never seen a program? that returned them in that format to the user.  A simple systemk/ call (perror()) outputs an english translation.l   > L > Many command line programs use the system command interpreter to parse theI > command line, making it rather easy to have a "uniform" user interface.   E There is nothing to prevent a "uniform" user interface in other OSes.tD Some people just choose to not use the standard way of doing things.D I can't think of any examples right off the top of my head, but I amC fairly certain I have seen people complain here about programs thato? were ported from Unix to VMS where they retained the "-" optiontE selector.  So while VMS makes it easy to use the "VMS way" it doesn'tdB force anyone to do it.  Of course, the same is true of other OSes,G including Unix (which has had getopt() for quite some time now although H there are still people who choose to do it the hard way and thus end out, with something that is not quite "uniform".)   > I > Many command line programs also have online help integrated into them -iN > often the exact same help that is available at the outermost level of system$ > help; from help at the VMS prompt.  H And, most other OSes do as well.  Unix programs tend to have a Unix-likeH "usage()" statement available from the command line.  I would not expectF a Unix command to enter a VMS-like HELP facility as that's not the wayJ Unix does it.  Just as I would not expect Primos or MVS to do it that way.   > K > The online help for virtually all programs is also the up-to-date commandpG > reference for the program. It may be more up-to-date than the printedn > manuals. You can trust it.  B Again, there is nothing in Unix or any other OS I am aware of thatF precludes this.  And it likely is true of all commercial applications.0 It is also true of most non-commercial programs.   > N > VMS has "logical names", which allows the locations of devices, directories,J > and files to be established and / or moved easily by the system manager.J > There is a simple mechanism (several actually) for setting these logicalJ > names up during the system boot. Any part or all of a file specification> > (from left to right) can be pre-specified by a logical name.  C Can't speak for many OSes beyond Unix on this one as I haven't used E much other than Unix and VMS (well, and my PDP-11 OSes which probablylD don't really count) in a long time, but UNIX can define all kinds ofC "logicals" as well.  As well as being able to use "sysmbolic links"eD to handle moving files around in a manner that is transparent to the user.t   > M > VMS commands are generally meaningful - "backup", "edit", "copy", "delete",r > etc.  C Been through all this before.  Unix people find Unix commands to beNC meaningful.  And APPLE ][ users found CATALOG, CAT and PREFIX to be  perfectly meaningful.   8     hint:       APPLE ][            VMS             Unix7                 CATALOG           DIRECTORY          ls	F                   CAT       No direct equivalent  No direct equivalent&         (40 Column version of CATALOG)8                 PREFIX           SHOW DEFAULT        pwd7           PREFIX [filename]       SET DEFAULT        cdm  E Germans find "Weihnachtszauber", "Reisezeit" and even "Fahrvergnugen" F to be perfectly meaningful.  Most americans might recognize the first,E couldn't guess the second and only laugh at the third (most AmericanstG I know think it is meaningless giberish created by Volkswagen for theirtA advertising campaign.)  Meaningful is in the eye of the beholder.y   > N > I will agree with anyone that the VMS file structure with the [] notation isN > arcane. It is not, however, difficult to learn. There IS a newer file systemF > available that is more like what *NIX and Windoze folks are used to. > N > VMS has DECNet, the easiest networking I've heard of to learn and to use. ItM > is fully integrated into the command shell (DCL). You can cat (TYPE) a fileeK > locally or on another node by simply specifying the node (system name) if F > the file isn't local. Example: TYPE FOO.BAR - for a local file. TYPEI > NODE::FOO.BAR or TYPE"USER PASS"::FOO.BAR for a remote file. It is this  > easy!D  E And, IP has the ability to do most of this as well.  The commands are B just different.  Oh, by the way, I'm home at the moment.  How do ID access those remote DECNET files from here??  I can access my remote IP based systems files.W   > H > There are standardized commands and procedures for installing software > (VMSINSTAL and PCSI).t  E And there is no reason why there can't be the same for other systems.oE Just because Sun doesn't use the same method as RedHat or IBM doesn't E make your argument stand out.  After all, VMS and TRU64 come from the E same vendor.  How similar are the installation procedures between theeH two??  And let's add NSK and HPUX to the equation.  If one company can'tH use the same system across all their platforms, why should anyone expectG all the different Unix (or any other OS, but I am sure this is intendedf; to target all the different flavors of Unix) to be uniform?t   > I > There is a LARGE body of software available for use for free, most witheE > source code, from the user's group (formerly DECUS, now Encompass).   D Don't even go there.  The list of available free software for VMS isD miniscule compared to what is available in general and in particularC for Unix.  And much of that DECUS software hasn't seen an update ino more than a decade.D   > L > Anyone else, please feel free to jump in here... this is my 2 cents worth.  K iAnd mine as well.  :-)s   bill   -- .J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   	   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 17:53:24 GMT, From: bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?-5 Message-ID: <aui42j$6tfih$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   / In article <v0ovnd9c67c0c2@corp.supernews.com>,v$ 	Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:+ > Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:lH >: And, believe it or not, many Unix systems redefine "rm" to be "rm -i"F >: which also prevents the dreaded "rm -r *" error.  In the hands of aH >: competent Admin, Unix is no worse than any other OS and is frequentlyF >: more powerful.  That's why the use of Unix is growing while so manyD >: others are fading and a number too large to list have disappeared >: entirely. > G > Unix user count isn't growing because Unix is more opwerful than VMS.o  ? Matter of opinion and outlook.  Unix is growing over other OSesb@ because more people find it the best way to accomplish what they> need to accomplish.  It doesn't matter how good an OS looks on- paper if people choose to use something else.h   bill   -- hJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 12:00:20 -0600m1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>/' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?t' Message-ID: <3E0C9534.BE8DE2AC@fsi.net>r   Z wrote: > # > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:@N > : I don't believe that somebody not well versed in unix "crytology" would beF > : able to "interpolate" "rm -r dir" to mean "remove -recursive dir". > > > I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours.  F 1. I find the manpages to be overly verbose at times. IMO, appropriate) for hardcopy, but not for on-line "help".m  H 2. IMO, "HELP" is more intuitive than "man", unless you're trying figureG out something and think, "man, what the hell command do I use here??!!"a   -- > David J. Dachterad dba DJE SystemsI http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 17:55:47 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <aui473$6tfih$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>t  / In article <v0ovkurn7ush97@corp.supernews.com>,i$ 	Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:# > VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:lM >: I don't believe that somebody not well versed in unix "crytology" would benF >: able to "interpolate" "rm -r dir" to mean "remove -recursive dir".  > > > I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours.  ' A few hours??  More like a few minutes.s  B (Which is not to say that HELP would take any more time, just thatA "man" isn't nearly as hard to decipher and use as many would have-
 you believe.)-   bill   -- DJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 12:08:16 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E0C9710.1C923032@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > ? > In article <b096a4ee.0212261156.23786311@posting.google.com>, : >         spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > > B > > Use DFU if you can. It is the best tool I've seen for deletingA > > directory trees. You can get if from the Freeware CD which is H > > available at www.openvms.compaq.com. And David can tell you where to  > > get the v2.7-1 patch for it. > >i > K > And if we're accepting alternate locally written (as in not a part of theMJ > comercial OS) solutions, I can write a simple script that will mimic theL > "rm" command and use much longer but more english-like options in minutes. > I > But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so I > to is trying to make Unix look like something it's not.  Slows down theuJ > learning curve and is non-portable to other people's machines. (hint, ifK > you came to my site and the only way you knew to delete whole directories.I > full of files was DFU, what would you do when you didn't find DFU on mya > systems??)  E Whether UN*X or VMS, I find that application vendors have an annoyingu< habit of setting up shortcuts for themselves and getting theH applications analysts at client sites familiar with their shortcuts, andE even using them in the user doc.'s. Then, inevitably, one of the app.eE people will call me and complains that (some command I've never heardwB of) isn't working and will expect me to be the super-expert on the vendor's nonsense.  H The trick is not in setting up symbols and such, the trick is in knowingG what those symbols, etc. do so when you go to a "foreign" site, you canhB still perform the functions, even if the shortcuts are not readilyC available and you must do a lot more typing to get the same result.w   -- u David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 18:04:49 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?m5 Message-ID: <aui4o1$6tfih$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>D  3 In article <yPw9KMz8dFP4@eisner.encompasserve.org>,c0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b > In article <auht0l$768v1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:@ >> In article <b096a4ee.0212270607.1887fb34@posting.google.com>,4 >> 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:i >>> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...o > L >>>> But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so >>> 9 >>> Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean? y >> e >> $cd :== set def >> $rm :== deleteb= >> $vi :== "EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SYS$USERDISK:[BOB237]EDTINI.EDT"c >> s >> And so on.....o > B > Those are DCL symbols, not logical names.  There are significant > differences.  D OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in the end it's all the same.   > C >> Surely you saw other people mention this here the last time thise >> topic made the rounds.e > I > You underestimate the strongly appealing notion of skipping topics likec > this..  D Maybe, but being in education, seeing people continue spout the sameE ridiculous garbage just rubs me the wrong way.  (I also disagree withoE teaching that n! = "the product of all integers from 1 to n" because l? although it is correct in all but one case, it is still wrong.)-   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   r   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 18:10:10 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 5 Message-ID: <aui522$6tfih$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>i  0 In article <00A1911A.72E33140@sendspamhere.org>,# 	VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:y > In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:nI >>I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS notsF >>LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promotesI >>lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diffoJ >>account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think aboutK >>trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correctn! >>VMS command to do something.   n > L > A long long time ago I wrote a utility called PERMANENT and released it to4 > the freeware archive maintained by Hunter Goatley. > L > I originally used this utility to create unix command symbols on VMS such  > as:j >  > $ LS == "" > $ PERMANENT LS > $ CD == "" > $ PERMANENT CD > $ GREP == "" > $ PERMANENT GREP > J > and so on in the SYLOGIN.COM file of the systems I managed.  This forcedJ > all of the unix types in service to the DoD to have to learn to use VMS!H > PERMANENT creates permanent DCL symbols such as $STATUS that cannot be' > deleted.  So, when a unix type enterss >  > $ GREP gobbledegook. >  > they get:, > H > %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling	 >  \GREP\/ > * > And, any attempt to redefine it such as: >  > $ GREP == SEARCH > 	 > yields:d > ? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellingd >  \SEARCH\h >  P  > And while it may come as a surprise to many here, I think that? is probably a good idea for reasons I have stated in an earliero= message.  But.......  I also think it is a bad idea because Il@ strongly believe that the machine is our slave and not the other@ way around.  While I will not automatically create those aliases@ for my users, I will not stop anyone from doing so if it is what> they really want to do.  Just as I would not stop someone from= creating aliases that mimiced VMS, MSDOS or MVS on one of oure
 Unix servers.A   bill   -- PJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   )   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:09:52 -050015 From: "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com>t' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use?aO Message-ID: <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FF6@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>E   >-----Original Message-----G2 >From: bill@cs.uofs.edu [mailto:bill@cs.uofs.edu] ( >Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 1:05 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( >Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? >> bD >> Those are DCL symbols, not logical names.  There are significant  >> differences.t > I >OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in the end. it's all the same.  F not really - symbols are variables in scripts, as well as shortcuts to commandsJ logicals are (generally) shortcuts or dereferences to devices/disks/etc as well as other "fun things" e      I The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged anddJ confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s)L named above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agentF responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, anyK review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is>J strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contactD the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of theI original message. Please note that we do not accept account orders and/orCJ instructions by e-mail, and therefore will not be responsible for carrying$ out such orders and/or instructions.   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 18:23:43 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?a5 Message-ID: <aui5re$7etlu$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   3 In article <6sWBm5K1PAVC@eisner.encompasserve.org>,M. 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: > In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes: J >> I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS notG >> LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promoteseJ >> lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diffK >> account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think aboutnL >> trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correct" >> VMS command to do something.    >>   > ? > 	Another fellow here has a  command for everything.  I'm sure ( > 	many of us have something similar to: >  > 	$ sq :== show queue > ? > 	We are saving keystrokes, nothing wrong with that.  Unix haseA > 	you saving keystrokes up front and forcing you to remember the  > 	insanity.  > So, let's see if I have this right.  Unix created really shortD commands because of the high cost (particularly in time) of enteringD these commands and that is now seen as a bad thing.  But today, whenC that cost is minimal to non-existant it's a good thing when someone4A does it themself??  You can remember that "sq" means "show queue"oB but the average Unix user is totally baffled by the idea that "rm" means "remove".  Amazing.r   > C > 	In the "why Unix sucks wars" we end up at the shell or CLI.  The2F > 	reasons are there in a minor sense, but not many.  The real reasonsA > 	Unix is inferior are deeper than the CLI and Unix is now less v@ > 	inferior as Sun almost has a good cluster now it appears.  OrG > 	good marketing.  Didn't Sun recently invent long distant clustering?i  E So you think Unix inferiority is all tied to the lack of clustering??dB Just how many computer users today actually need clusters??  I canD assure you that in my environment they offer absolutely no advantageB and that means the added complexity is a minus rather than a plus.   > + > http://news.com.com/2100-1001-963615.htmlt >  > October 28, 2002 > M > "Sun Microsystems has come up with a way to insulate computer networks frommQ > fires, floods and bomb attacks: Split up the machines and put them in different[ > cities. ".  G I run a collection of servers (about 12 at this point) for the academic G department of a small University in NEPA.  How would being able to havexF multiple servers in remote locations make this work better??  If thereG is a flood (we're on the 4th floor and the building is over 500' higheriE than the nearest water that is likely to flood), or a fire, or a bomblE or an earthquake or a ine subsidence (the most likely around here) itsF won't do much good having servers in Denver.  we will be shut down andE have no users.  Oh yeah, my uptime performance is much beter than theaE campus network so there's another reason not to bother worrying aboutc	 clusters.    > N > "UNIX is akin to a religion to some.  If things aren't done like they are inI > UNIX, then they must be bad.  Sorry, I don't believe in this religion."l >   J I've answered this one before too.  One can insert VMS, MVS or even PRIMOSH (yes, I know former Prime users who still swear there was never and willE never be a better OS) in place of UNIX and it works exactly the same.    bill   -- iJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:39:17 +0100t$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 0 Message-ID: <D81P9.2866$oy.3129@news.get2net.dk>   Clip ...  5 > It is much more a reflection on the person than thecB > OS.  Remember, a subtle mistake you don't know you made that hasB > later (and more longterm) effects is probably worse than the oneG > that is obvious from the very start.  Precision is the responsibilityw > of the user, ...  K Only someone who is not an engineer could say something like that.  Part ofaL engineering *anything* is to do it in such a way that the inadvertent errors2 *cannot* occur and major disasters can be averted.  H Whoops, forgot, Unix CLIs are not engineered, they are written by anyoneJ who feels like it - and boy does it show.  There is no overall plan and noD consistency.  They are powerful and terse, as if these were the onlyK criteria that mattered.  It is user engineering by nerds (clever nerds, but  nerds no less).   H If we designed user interfaces for power stations, or aircraft like Unix* CLIs, then we would be in serious trouble.   Dweeb.   > bill >e > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 12:50:54 -0600.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>h' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E0CA10E.90BE05D5@fsi.net>?   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > [snip]@ > And while it may come as a surprise to many here, I think thatA > is probably a good idea for reasons I have stated in an earliero? > message.  But.......  I also think it is a bad idea because IeB > strongly believe that the machine is our slave and not the other > way around.  [snip]t  E Gee - I thought I was the only one who thought that way: "The machinee( works for me, not the other way around."  D ...which is a big part of why I hate WhineBloze, and everything else that defies automation.a   -- a David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 18:45:32 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?b5 Message-ID: <aui74c$7etlu$2@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>h  ' In article <3E0C9534.BE8DE2AC@fsi.net>,e4 	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:
 > Z wrote: >>  $ >> VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:O >> : I don't believe that somebody not well versed in unix "crytology" would be G >> : able to "interpolate" "rm -r dir" to mean "remove -recursive dir".o >>  ? >> I believe even a novice can learn to use man in a few hours.c > H > 1. I find the manpages to be overly verbose at times. IMO, appropriate+ > for hardcopy, but not for on-line "help".#  > I can't say I find them any more verbose than some of the HELP= entries.  They should seem "appropriate for hardcopy" as they ; are the hardcopy manuals in ROFF format and the man command A merely invokes nroff with the correct macros and with the printer<< type set to TTY and then pipes it through a pager to make it easier to read.i   > J > 2. IMO, "HELP" is more intuitive than "man", unless you're trying figureI > out something and think, "man, what the hell command do I use here??!!"a  A We've been through this already.  intuiticve is in the eye of the.D beholder.  "man" is merely short for "manual" and the command printsE out "manual pages".  There have been improvementsd made.  I have seene@ HTMLized versions of the man pages, but in the long run, the manC command is the one that can be expected to be found on most systemsh? and as the least common denominator is the one most people willi look for first.u  G Oh and if you are in the "man, what the hell command do I use here??!!"eB mode, what could be more apropos than the "apropos" command??  :-)  p bill   -- kJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   O   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:49:22 +0100o6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <3E0CA0B2.7050109@vajhoej.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:  5 > In article <yPw9KMz8dFP4@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b >>In article <auht0l$768v1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>$cd :== set def >>>$rm :== deleteo= >>>$vi :== "EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SYS$USERDISK:[BOB237]EDTINI.EDT"t    B >>Those are DCL symbols, not logical names.  There are significant >>differences.    F > OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in the > end it's all the same.  8 True. And Unix and Windows are also basicly the same: an operating system.1  + But some people care about the differences.u  * And logicals and symbols are not the same.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 12:50:48 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?h3 Message-ID: <oT6La9JZtzxU@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ` In article <aui4o1$6tfih$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  F > OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in the > end it's all the same.   Not if you care about:  # 	Using a defined name as a command.'  = 	Definitions that are automatically honored in opening files.-  4 	Varying nested definitions within the same process.  + 	Definitions on a wider-than-process basis.u  ; 	Permanent characteristics of a volume rather than temporalV 	environmental settings.  B But to the best of my knowledge "nickname" is not a VMS construct,B so I am not able to say which of Logical Name, DCL Symbol or Alias  Entry it most closely resembles.   ========  E It is not good to use the terminology loosely, as those who come here F with less VMS experience will dismiss the differences and be confused.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:38:25 -0500a% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> + Subject: Re: lock manager and blocking astsu/ Message-ID: <v0p7h2j4on7j13@news.supernews.com>   > "Joshua Lehrer" <usenet_vms@lehrerfamily.com> wrote in message7 news:477e0934.0212241632.6da7164f@posting.google.com...:# > Ok, here is a follow up question.a >gG > Process #1 (P1) obtains a protected read with blocking ast, then goesu/ > in to an infinite while (1) sys$hiber() loop.t >  > Process #2 (P2) does the samee >dB > the blocking asts do NOT release the lock, and are only there to' > inform me that they have been called.s >f7 > Process #3 (P3) attempts to obtain a protected write.f >o > which asts are called? >uF > My first guess was that first P1's ast would be called.  IFF P1 wereD > to release the lock, then P2's ast would be called.  My theory was@ > that P1 is stopping P3 from obtaining the lock.  If P1 doesn'tG > relinquish, then why bother informing P2?  In my example, P1 does not ? > relinquish the lock, and thus, only P1's ast would be called.  > G > My second guess was that both P1 and P2 would have their asts called.rF > This would be an optimization, allowing each to decide, in parallel,B > if they wanted to release the lock.  This was the behavior I was! > hoping for, for my application.  > F > It turns out that my second guess is correct.  Can someone give me aH > better explanation as to why?  Is this documented somewhere?  I'd hateH > to build up my application relying on this behavior, only to have this! > "undocumented" behavior change.d >i  J I don't know where this is documented but it's certainly behavior that youL can rely on.  Both the P1 and P2 locks are granted and they're both blockingL P3 so both processes get a blocking AST.  There is a ton of code that relies+ on this behavior so you can rely on it too.   L You should also take a look at the LCK$M_NODLCKWT and LCK$M_NODLCKBLK flags.F Make sure you set these correctly or you could trigger wasted deadlock( searches or false SS$_DEADLOCK failures.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:29:10 +0100a6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commandso) Message-ID: <3E0C7FD6.9080308@vajhoej.dk>c   JF Mezei wrote:d  R > What is the best way to manage an increasing number of foreign commands on VMS ? > L > Is there a way to just add them with a .CLD to dcltable.exe  and have thenM > still behavethe same with the same "unix" style syntax ? Or is the only wayiK > still to add them to sylogin so they clutter up the symbol table of everyi > process ?w > N > When you look at the TCPIP symbols, add in perl, ghostscript and all yor own) > utilities, it vecomes harder to manage.d   Personally I prefer:  7 1)  define a foreign command for those few things I use       all the timel  8 2)  define a XXXDEF command to define a bunch of related      symbols I use occasionallyr  0 3)  use MCR for all the stuff that I used rarely  8 It works well for me. Your preferences may be different.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:29:52 +0100A6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands ) Message-ID: <3E0C8000.8050401@vajhoej.dk>   * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  P > In a lot of cases, careful planning of the location of the images plus the useL > of DCL$PATH (which I think came in in 6.2 - I don't know what version yourO > almighty teenager is running) keeps them from cluttering up either the symbolu > table or sylogin.      Many VMS'ers dislike DCL$PATH !s   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 12:31:08 -0600t1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commandst' Message-ID: <3E0C9C6C.ED00BD1E@fsi.net>n   JF Mezei wrote:  > R > What is the best way to manage an increasing number of foreign commands on VMS ? > L > Is there a way to just add them with a .CLD to dcltable.exe  and have thenM > still behavethe same with the same "unix" style syntax ? Or is the only waysK > still to add them to sylogin so they clutter up the symbol table of every  > process ?  > N > When you look at the TCPIP symbols, add in perl, ghostscript and all yor own) > utilities, it vecomes harder to manage.  >  > Any comments ?  E Unless I'm too badly mistaken, I believe the .CLD syntax would look ao little like this:e   DEFINE VERB cmdnames 	IMAGE image_named 	CLIFLAGS(FOREIGN)  H Perhaps a single file, such as LOCAL.CLD could contain all of your localG foreign command definitions. Unless there's an INCLUDE keyword that I'mu> not aware of (entirely possible), that's probably the easiest.  B Others in the past have recommended keeping such things out of theD SYS$SYSTEM path, which is a good idea. Perhaps a system-wide logicalH name like FREEWARE DEFINEd/EXEC/NOALIAS would be useful, or even a shortF .EXE to do a $CRELNM in KERNEL mode with the NOALIAS flag set (for the truly security minded).a  > Other posters are indeed correct. There are some MAJOR caveats? surrounding the use of DCL$PATH. I use it everyday, but I don'ts) recommend it for "general user" accounts.t   -- m David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:02:10 GMTo" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...o0 Message-ID: <00A1910F.1D61B7B8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3E0B9594.6A9D47BE@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:K >> I've not seen Star Wars either... well, I tried once and found the firstoK >> few minutes *so* stupid that I decided to take a nap instead.  I supposee; >> that makes me some sort of out-of-touch personality too?e > J >How can you function in the 21st century if you don't even know about the >origins of R2D2 and C3PO? >dN >I do hope that you are at least up-to-date with Star Trek.  Hard to imagine a& >VMS guy who doesn't follow Star Trek.  N I watched the original series when it was an original series.  I never really M got into the new series with Patrick Stewart.  I feel that science fiction is M losing in story line and plot to the special effect crowd.  ...and, if you'remC considering Star Wars to be science fiction you're sadly mistaken. o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             e5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:39:06 GMTV" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...u0 Message-ID: <00A19085.C73B8E91@SendSpamHere.ORG>  b In article <3E0B40A5.C6D6FF77@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:" >VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:J >> OK.  I don't go to the movies.  I think, IIRC, the last film I actually! >> viewed in a theater was 2010, r >lN >Wow, your view of the world is outdated big time... :-) Did you know that PanL >Am no longer exists (except a different small carrier using the same name),G >the Soviet Union no longer exists. There are no Soviet-USA tensions iniR >Honduras.  Russians and Americans share a space station along with other nations.  J I'm aware of what is happening in the world despite my lack of cinema show
 frequency.  H I've not seen Star Wars either... well, I tried once and found the firstH few minutes *so* stupid that I decided to take a nap instead.  I suppose8 that makes me some sort of out-of-touch personality too?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMn             5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" s   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 02 08:36:56 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) 4 Subject: Re: new version of OpenVMS password cracker) Message-ID: <F+OkfZKRezVu@elias.decus.ch>o  c In article <BXKnAqLXDwGf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: W > In article <xlpl4xF5ijzU@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:e > H >> If in doubt, ask your security department for permission _in writing_E >> before you attempt this. It's probably not a bad idea to have theme >> present as witnesses too. > M > In my view, your security or audit department should be the ones conductingeL > any tests, to provide separation of duties between those who implement VMS@ > security and those who check to see whether it was done right.  E Yes, much better. I really do not want to know XYZ's password(s), forsF example, and hopefully another department can spot something we missed
 somewhere.  nE > That is, if the security department modifies SYSUAF, then the auditi1 > department should be doing the review function.r  B In an ideal world yes. In reality some of us have to act as systemB managers, security and auditors. In my experience auditors tend toD arrive once or twice a year at most. IOW they tend to take snapshots& rather than doing constant monitoring.   -- a
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:36:27 +0100l6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?) Message-ID: <3E0C818B.5060108@vajhoej.dk>o   Doc.Cypher wrote:e  G > Ah, that would be the installation of that well-known resource-hungrym	 > device,o >  > /dev/SAP.r > B > Apparently it behaves similarly to /dev/null in terms of output.  % I know a lot of people that hate SAP.c   But try look at:  fN http://www.sap.com/company/investor/reports/ar_onlin/2001/financials/index.htm  # They make money ! A lot of money !!s   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:45:26 +0100u6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?) Message-ID: <3E0C83A6.9020004@vajhoej.dk>d   Dr. Dweeb wrote:  . > "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote:D >>Which managed to whack the NT version of Rdb as collateral damage.F >>(Although I really thought the Rdb group could have afforded to pickE >>up one guy to maintain the IA32 Bliss compiler, they didn't seem toL >>think so.)    I > They did not even need to do that.  They already had a couple of ex-DECgN > BLISS compiler guys to do the work.  CompaQ wanted an exhorbitant amount for. > the code & rights - US$ 7 figures I believe. > M > Orcale though that that was extortion and decided not to play.  I think theEN > CompaQ - Oracle relationship was pretty sour for quite a while.  It probably@ > was right until the end of CompaQ.  No idea how it is with HP.  < If that story is true, then it explains why Compaq went down so fast.   Bloody stupid decision.e   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:55:23 +0100n$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@nospam.com>6 Subject: Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun aiming at VMS's jugular?0 Message-ID: <mv0P9.2854$oy.2603@news.get2net.dk>  0 "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message# news:3E0C83A6.9020004@vajhoej.dk...M > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > 0 > > "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr" wrote:F > >>Which managed to whack the NT version of Rdb as collateral damage.H > >>(Although I really thought the Rdb group could have afforded to pickG > >>up one guy to maintain the IA32 Bliss compiler, they didn't seem tow > >>think so.) >t >dK > > They did not even need to do that.  They already had a couple of ex-DECrL > > BLISS compiler guys to do the work.  CompaQ wanted an exhorbitant amount fori0 > > the code & rights - US$ 7 figures I believe. > >nK > > Orcale though that that was extortion and decided not to play.  I think  the G > > CompaQ - Oracle relationship was pretty sour for quite a while.  It  probablyB > > was right until the end of CompaQ.  No idea how it is with HP. >w> > If that story is true, then it explains why Compaq went down
 > so fast.  K It is true, but there were lots of other reasons CompaQ died, but stupidity 4 among the officers of the company must rank highly !   Dweeb. >  > Bloody stupid decision.u >  > Arne >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:17:27 +0100n) From: "Jiri Koutnik" <jkoutnik@ebanka.cz>e% Subject: Pathworks - service Netlogon-* Message-ID: <1041002257.57508@krakonosovo>  5 Netlogon doesnt start, cant move forward, any ideas ?j   Geo:   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:34:06 GMT + From: stevef85@hotmail.com (Steve Fournier)o' Subject: SMP Alphaserver 4100 CPUBAD???oD Message-ID: <yxZO9.1323$aD3.189792@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  P i have recently acquired a 4 processor 4100 as a backup to an online production K system.  all 4 processors are supposedly 400 Mhz B3004-AA processers.  the tK first 3 have the part number 36-46665-06-A01 printed on them.  the 4th has OP 36-46665-06-B01 on it.  unfortunately, on VMS 6.2-1H3 bootup, the 4th processor O refuses to start with SMP-F-CPUBAD message because it is a different type than tO the primary one.  does anyone know the differences here?  can i get all 4 cpus o running in VMS?w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:52:36 +00002' From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>(+ Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file namese2 Message-ID: <271220021352362152%elliott@yrl.co.uk>  8 In article <3E0BDBFD.95D60E09@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei( <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:  N > I tried to FTP a whole Macintosh disk drive to my all migty microvax II onlyO > to find thst the FTP bombs whenever it encounters a directory name whose name K > isn't valid under VMS (ODS2, of course since the VMS engineers decided toe > deprive us of ODS5). > I > Does anyone have a solution to this ? (this is an old MAC without NFS).d  E I gave up on that one. I'd use Stuffit on the Mac then FTP the resultdG in binary mode to VMS. In practice, I go one further. I PGP the Stuffit C archive first. That way, if the VMS backup tapes go astray, I don'tcB have to worry about the unwashed seeing my Mac stuff. Not even theD filenames. Bit of a bummer if every disk on your Mac is nearly full. But how much does a RD53 hold?E VMS barfs on deeply nested directories anyway. It is a game not worthv playing.  G Incidentally VMS 7.3-1 TCPIP with ODS2 does a better job of translatingeF Mac names than earlier versions. e.g. All Migty Backup.sit.pgp becomesE ALL_MIGTY_BACKUP_SIT.PGP;1 on arrival. Newer Macs permit whole essays E for filenames, so ODS2 is a bit useless without the stuffit envelope,f+ which also preserves resource forks nicely.e  > But you know all that JF. You are just stirring it aren't you? Happy new year,i Elliottw   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 08:13:02 -0700 (MST)f" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>+ Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file names F Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0212270759570.3810-100000@athena.csdco.com>  $ On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, JF Mezei wrote:  N > I tried to FTP a whole Macintosh disk drive to my all migty microvax II onlyO > to find thst the FTP bombs whenever it encounters a directory name whose name K > isn't valid under VMS (ODS2, of course since the VMS engineers decided too > deprive us of ODS5). > I > Does anyone have a solution to this ? (this is an old MAC without NFS).  >    JF,t  F After a several days of playing around with different tcp/ip versions,I different VMS releases, OS x and, OS X the only thing that I could get tooH really work with OS 9 (or 8) was the DECshare/VAXshare file server.  NFS@ does seem reliable with OS X and is actually pretty nice to use.  I You probably know that Thursby has a relatively cheap OS 9 NFS. With thatf< I only had partial success, but didn't try very hard either.  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 03:10:11 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>Y Subject: Re: Unix and Wintel are not the only games in town ( was Re: OT: Whoa! Is Sun ai / Message-ID: <3E0AAB47.3B24F277@vl.videotron.ca>c   Brian 'Jarai' Chase wrote:L > not running OpenVMS on Alpha systems.  And they may still be running it onI > VAX systems, though it probably would make a lot more sense for them to/J > use Alphas from the standpoint of having more readily available hardware    L Some time ago, it was said that Intel was still on VAXes because they hadn't2 ported the softwrae and could afford any downtime.  L However, at this point in time, dumping vaxes to go to Alpha would be ratherK silly, especially if changing those would require downtime etc etc. Dumping(L one dead platform for another dead platform wouldn't be much of a good idea.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Dec 2002 14:25:18 -05007 From: pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter)02 Subject: Vax 9000 -- Was vax6k.openecs.org rebirth- Message-ID: <aufl2u$43k$1@shell.monmouth.com>s  & In article <H7qM29.89F@world.std.com>,. Brian 'Jarai' Chase <bdc@world.std.com> wrote: >mJ >The VAX 10000 was a contemporary of the VAX 7000.  Both are XMI based andG >were upgradable to Alpha processors.  Maybe you're thinking of the VAX>) >9000 which came out a few years earlier?B >]G >See: <http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/vax/archive/vax10000.html>l >c >-brian. >-- G >--- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----SK >Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.  -- Pablo Picasso.a    G OK... Since during my DEC days I was told the Vax9000 which came out ofsI the Gene Amdahl backed Trilogy Systems (which was doing these wierd faultsC tolerant ECL wafers with multiple cpu units (IIRC) and he purchasediF ELXSI which for a while had a VMS-like EMS operating system along with- SysV, BSD and their own proprietary EMBOS OS.d  > Anyone got any details on the whole mess and the interconnect.  @ My home is one day James Burke will do a show on the ConnectionsE in this industry and it'll be pretty amazing how about a dozen peoplel) show up with major influences all around.o   Bill   -- nM +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+sM | Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |1M |   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |eN |   a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                        | M +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 09:50:37 +0100.. From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth, Message-ID: <3E0AC2DD.30E2CAD0@pcde.inka.de>   Anamika wrote: >mD > One might as well shut down the free service if there are not many/ > patrons. There are other free VMS accounts ati5 > http//deathrow.vistech.net, http://hobbesthevax.comy  ; Well, I wanted to try hobbesthevax when I got my first VAX.n8 At that time I only had ULTRIX and I wanted to play with: VMS somewhere to check out if it was worth the work to get5 it on a MicroVAX II. So I subscribed to hobbesthevax.e8 I almost never heard from them. 1.5 months later I got a7 VAXstation 3100 and it was easier to install VMS there.V* I had almost forgotten about hobbesthevax.4 About 2 or 3 months after I subscribed some guy from4 hobbesthevax called me at 3am in the morning (Hello?9 Germany is not quite on the US side of the globe, right?)t6 to verify my identity. He wanted to talk with me about5 VMS on my MicroVAX II too, but I really wasn't in theh. mood to say more than 5 words in one sentence.8 Finally he gave me my password and said that it would be enabled in a few days.5 To give this story a sad end, I tried about one monthp6 to log in, but my password was never accepted (and I'm$ sure that I wrote it down correctly)2 I really like the feature of the guest account at 8 vax6k.openecs.org. You can log in and see how VMS looks.5 For a permanent account most people will get a VAX onh their own anyway.o   mfg  Dennis   -- a> A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into software.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 27 Dec 02 11:40:59 GMTe From: jmfbahciv@aol.comr& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <auhg55$ljj$1@bob.news.rcn.net>s  ) In article <n1bfua.d82.ln@teabag.cbhnet>,r3    cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) wrote:r8 >According to David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:5 >> The VAX 10000 actually came out BEFORE the 7000's.o > = >I never could figure out their numbering scheme, even thoughc> >I worked there at the time (or maybe it's _because_ it worked >there at the time!)  9 That's why I thought that product line was brain-damaged.i; Everybody else counted in ascending order, so it could have  simply been NIH.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.@   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 27 Dec 02 11:45:12 GMT7 From: jmfbahciv@aol.comD& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <auhgd2$ljj$2@bob.news.rcn.net>u  / In article <3E0B3AD7.15EC47E2@vl.videotron.ca>,D4    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >Dennis Grevenstein wrote:4 >> I really like the feature of the guest account at; >> vax6k.openecs.org. You can log in and see how VMS looks., >m >eK >Perhaps it would be worth it for the VMS group to fund that VAX since thats; >would allow anyone to play with it to get a feel for VMS. l > J >I know that there are official "test drive" machines available, but they  arei >more "serious". >lJ >We could troll other newsgroups to advertise the availability of this VMSK >machnine so that non-believers could give it a try. That would help bring   some >visibility back to VMS. > I >Of course, such a machine woudl probably require much maintenance since p there  >is bound to be some abuse.o  @ That's a snide remark.  You start out by pretending to wish that? VMS be made visible; then you infer that it's not fit for a netoA because of security and user protection problems.  VMS was prettya! good at preventing both of these.l   /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 27 Dec 02 13:17:46 GMTf From: jmfbahciv@aol.coml& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth, Message-ID: <auhlqk$puq$10@bob.news.rcn.net>  5 In article <20021227130053.2181.qmail@nym.alias.net>,u8    Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:, >On Fri, 27 Dec 02, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:1 >>In article <3E0B3AD7.15EC47E2@vl.videotron.ca>,o6 >>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: >>>Dennis Grevenstein wrote:6 >>>> I really like the feature of the guest account at= >>>> vax6k.openecs.org. You can log in and see how VMS looks.  >II >>>We could troll other newsgroups to advertise the availability of this L VMSLG >>>machnine so that non-believers could give it a try. That would help s bring  >>>some visibility back to VMS.h >mJ >JF, I don't really approve of "trolling" other newsgroups to promote VMS.? >By all means participate in other groups and take advantage ofnD >opportunities to promote VMS, but posting pro-VMS material without  actuallyA >regularly using a group will, quite justifiably, get you flamed.   C Good point.  This would be another way to attain his hidden agenda   of besmirching the product.n   >gK >>>Of course, such a machine woudl probably require much maintenance since o# >>>there is bound to be some abuse.o >>B >>That's a snide remark.  You start out by pretending to wish thatA >>VMS be made visible; then you infer that it's not fit for a netoC >>because of security and user protection problems.  VMS was prettys# >>good at preventing both of these.o >tJ >It's certainly a lot easier to run a public-access VMS system than an *ixJ >one. Both would be subject to abuse, but locking down the VMS system is aC >lot easier. So far I've had to make outbound telnet and use of IRC I >available to users who are granted special rights identifiers. That cuts,D >out virtually all the abuse by Script Kiddies trying to hide their  location' >when accessing their "0wn3d" machines.a  < <GRIN>  Yup.  VMS was very, very, very good at tracking comm; traffic.  Our in-house DECnet Nazis used VMS and its tools y; to do that.  The -10 products didn't furnish sophisticated n< tracking and tracing tools (no time, no money, no interest).   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:38:20 -0500s' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>.& Subject: RE: vax6k.openecs.org rebirthT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C54@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF,f  F >>> You'd think that saving your peripherals, fans, power supplies and1 cabinet would represent a substantial savings.<<<o  ? For production shops, hardware is cheap compared to application 	 downtime.v  E In cab upgrades are ok for a couple of upgrades, but there is a pointeB where one just decides to replace the entire system. Especially ifE downtime is tough to get i.e.. the time to do all the physical in-cabt re-work.  B Most prod shops might decide to do a few incremental in cab systemA upgrades (cpu, memory) if they are easy to do, but when you startnC talking about backplane replacements (faster speeds etc) or harnessaB changes (different power for new technology) etc, most shops would3 likely choose to just replace the entire system.=20   D A similar case in point with PC systems - I have a 300Mhz P3 system.E Should I buy and upgrade the motherboard, power supply, hard disk andtF memory or just go out and buy an entire 1.8Mhz P4 system box for aboutB $700 Cdn that has the 60Gb disk, 128MB memory, Cdrom and latest OSC version already integrated and that comes with a 2-3 year warranty?n   RegardsN  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Servicesk Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----: From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca]=20  Sent: December 25, 2002 11:17 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth     David Froble wrote:uA > I didn't, and probably never will, understand the concept of=20  > in-cabinet upgrades.  B With PCI now pretty standard as a hardware bus, I would think that1 in-cabinet upgrades would become more widespread.o  B You'd think that saving your peripherals, fans, power supplies and1 cabinet would represent a substantial savings.=20   F I realise that wildfires boxes will have to be ditched because the EV7G won't "fit" inside. But for smaller systems, shouldn't it be possible ?y  G Or has compaq/HP changed cabinet designs so often that motherboards arer8 never physically compatible with older cabinet designs ?    G Many countries around the world have or are about to enact strict rulesoH about disposal of electronic equipment. You'd think that a global vendorC such as HP would start to design re-usable computer equipment wherenG upgrades would only mean swapping a few boards instead of throwing awayc a whole computer.n   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 16:15:52 GMTL From: those who know me have no need of my name <not-a-real-address@usa.net>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth% Message-ID: <m13cojqw1y.gnus@usa.net>g  ! in alt.folklore.computers i read:o  M >I know that there are official "test drive" machines available, but they are  >more "serious".  E not from what i've seen.  the vms systems aren't as abused as the vms D systems, but that's more likely due to inertia and available exploit scripts to try.D   -- A+ bringing you boring signatures for 17 yearst   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:40:42 +0100h6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E0C828A.2010101@vajhoej.dk>   # greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:r  9 > On Sun, 22 Dec 2002 20:16:37 -0600, "David J. Dachtera"h# > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> sprachen:tI >>Beyond that, unless you've sworn a blood-oath to keep VAX-only alive inhH >>this way, I'd shop around for used Alpha 2100s, 4100s, used CIPCAs and1 >>other CI gear. Alphas are a LOT cheaper to run.y > H > I dunno what a VAX 6K is, but I can only assume it's some old, classicA > computer, and it's being run for sortof nostalgia and enjoyment 7 > reasons, not as a commercial server for some purpose.i  9 The VAX 6000 series was an extremely succesfull series ofs7 VAX'es sold from the late 1980's into the early 1990's.a  9 And unlike f.ex. the VAX 9000's then a lot of 6000's keptj running for many many years.  ? And my guess is that there are still thousands of them running.t   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 17:20:50 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth- Message-ID: <aui25i$3cb@web.eng.baileynm.com>f  / In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,l, Morten Reistad  <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:B > The VAX was DEC's attempt to repeat the success of the '11, withF > a 32-bit SuperCISC architecture. Ran a weird operating system calledL > VMS, as well as Unix in variuos flavors. Could make impressive performance > for its CISCyness.  H I don't think the VAX ever had "impressive performance". What it had wasK a large address space and legacy support for RSX-11 software via a hardware K PDP-11 emulator, and a complex OS that you either love or hate (or love ANDh hate).   -- "O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs.O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 09:48:09 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>s& Subject: RE: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEAIGFAA.tom@kednos.com>d  A Well, there's more to than that.  the '11 wasn't able to compete,pD performance-wise with the 32bit minis like Prime.  I don't know whatC you by "impressive" but I thought it ran very well.  It had a great|D instruction set, making compiler writing a lot easier the risc.  AndC if Intel can make that miserable accumulator architecture (x86) run 7 at 2.7G who knows what you could have gotten out of VAX2   >-----Original Message-----I. >From: Peter da Silva [mailto:peter@abbnm.com]( >Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 9:21 AM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirthn >t >e0 >In article <6oseua.f5i.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,- >Morten Reistad  <mrr@reistad.priv.no> wrote:>C >> The VAX was DEC's attempt to repeat the success of the '11, withuG >> a 32-bit SuperCISC architecture. Ran a weird operating system callediA >> VMS, as well as Unix in variuos flavors. Could make impressives >performance >> for its CISCyness.  >eI >I don't think the VAX ever had "impressive performance". What it had wasAL >a large address space and legacy support for RSX-11 software via a hardwareL >PDP-11 emulator, and a complex OS that you either love or hate (or love AND >hate).a >t >--dA >I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire  >over the roofs-@ >of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde >Park Gate.  All? >these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the- >rain.   `-_-'L >Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U` >d >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).AB >Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002 >g ---f& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).A Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 - Release Date: 12/17/2002    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:45:41 GMTe4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth8 Message-ID: <u87p0vo7li69tv93llahe71ofkoj95uhoe@4ax.com>  8 On Fri, 27 Dec 02 11:45:12 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  0 >In article <3E0B3AD7.15EC47E2@vl.videotron.ca>,5 >   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote:e >>Dennis Grevenstein wrote:r5 >>> I really like the feature of the guest account at-< >>> vax6k.openecs.org. You can log in and see how VMS looks. >>L >>Perhaps it would be worth it for the VMS group to fund that VAX since that< >>would allow anyone to play with it to get a feel for VMS.  >>K >>I know that there are official "test drive" machines available, but they . >>are more "serious".e >>K >>We could troll other newsgroups to advertise the availability of this VMS L >>machnine so that non-believers could give it a try. That would help bring  >>some visibility back to VMS. >>J >>Of course, such a machine woudl probably require much maintenance since " >>there is bound to be some abuse. >fA >That's a snide remark.  You start out by pretending to wish thath@ >VMS be made visible; then you infer that it's not fit for a netB >because of security and user protection problems.  VMS was pretty" >good at preventing both of these.  > ISTM that was not the poster's intent -- the implication I got> was that the accounts would have to be administered to prevent? abuse likely in any free public access system -- and that maybea> the poster's first language is not English, from the incorrect? use of "troll" relative to the rest of the sentence, the phrasea@ "much maintenance", and the knowledge that videotron is a Quebec ISP. I could be wrong. ;^>  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canada  -- cF Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply@ abuse@aol.com tosspam@aol.com abuse@att.com abuse@earthlink.com ? abuse@hotmail.com abuse@mci.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com wB abuse@yahoo.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@shaw.ca abuse@telus.com - abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov				spam trapsd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:53:49 +0100a6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>; Subject: Re: VMS has got apps ... 3300 and counting per HP!D) Message-ID: <3E0C859D.5070101@vajhoej.dk>    Bob Ceculski wrote:   > > this is from skhpc on the openvms.org site ... for those who > say vms has no apps ...    Hmm.   I am not impressed.,  D Could you find the numbers for VMS anno 1989 and for Solaris today ?   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 18:11:21 GMTg( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>M Subject: Re: Your Multi-volume Tape Backups may be bad on all versions of	VMSi; Message-ID: <dJ0P9.56640$6H6.1943397@twister.austin.rr.com>i  . In message <c1O+QBuvFLPp@tachxxsoftxxconsult>,> wayne@tachysoft.xxx.134848.killspam.00ac (Wayne Sewell) wrote: ...i > G > As some may have noticed (and others rejoiced), I haven't been in thei	 newsgroup N > much for a while, but I modified the news system to send me mail if articlesL > contain keywords such as my name, tachysoft, tapesys, thruway, or software< > partners.  When that happens, I come back in a hurry.  :-) >  > D So now instead of a NSA signature we start using a Sewell signature?   -- o
 Jay E. Morriso@ Posted with Ink Spot (for Windows CE) from DejaVu Software, Inc.8 Usenet wherever you are - http://www.dejavusoftware.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:04:37 GMT0" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: [OT] coffee0 Message-ID: <00A1910F.754ED27E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  P In article <3E0BA59B.7000005@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: >> Dennis Grevenstein wrote: >> a@ >>A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into software. >fH >Interesting; considering the Seattle area has a number of high quality A >coffee roasters (_not_ counting Starbucks, because I said "high rF >quality"), yet the primary software product to come from that region ( >is markedly known for it's low quality. > D >Hmm- I have friends that work for the borg.  I should ask what the  >"house coffee" is there...:  4 Probably Starbucks.  Low quality yields low quality.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            n5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.716 ************************same with the same "unix" style syntax ? Or is the only waysK > still to add them to sylogin so they clutter up the symbol table of every  > process ?  > N > When you look at the TCPIP symbols, add in perl, ghostscript and all yor own) > utilities, it vecomes harder to manage.  >  > Any comments ?  E Unless I'm too badly mistaken, I believe the .CLD syntax would look ao little like this:e   DEFINE VERB cmdnames @CҪ    ACҪ    BCҪ    CCҪ    DCҪ    ECҪ    FCҪ    GCҪ    HCҪ    ICҪ    JCҪ    KCҪ    LCҪ    MCҪ    NCҪ    OCҪ    PCҪ    QCҪ    RCҪ    SCҪ    TCҪ    UCҪ    VCҪ    WCҪ    XCҪ    YCҪ    ZCҪ    [CҪ    \CҪ    ]CҪ    ^CҪ    _CҪ    `CҪ    aCҪ    bCҪ    cCҪ    dCҪ    eCҪ    fCҪ    gCҪ    hCҪ    iCҪ    jCҪ    kCҪ    lCҪ    mCҪ    nCҪ    oCҪ    pCҪ    qCҪ    rCҪ    sCҪ    tCҪ    uCҪ    vCҪ    wCҪ    xCҪ    yCҪ    zCҪ    {CҪ    |CҪ    }CҪ    ~CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    CҪ    