1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 29 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 719       Contents:7 Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?) 7 Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?)  ASCII files & NFS  Re: ASCII files & NFS  Re: ASCII files & NFS A Re: ASKQ and special characters, was: Re: just a couple of things 3 Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) 3 Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) 3 Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) 3 Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) , Re: Determining a driver base address on VAX Re: is VMS really easy to use? RE: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use?2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...& Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...1 Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching  Re: OpenVMS Branding Query Re: OpenVMS Branding Query Re: OpenVMS Branding Query# printing of string descriptors in C ' Re: printing of string descriptors in C ' Re: printing of string descriptors in C " Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file names" Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file namesP Re: The Factorial function (was Re: is VMS really easy to use?) (includes a brie Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE0 Re: VMS PHP connect to local Oracle Rdb Database7 Volatility of Argument Registers in EXEC mode R25,16-21 F [OT] Kermit vs. "commercial" emulators (ORe: is VMS really easy to useJ Re: [OT] Kermit vs. "commercial" emulators (ORe: is VMS really easy to use  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:02:41 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> @ Subject: Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?)' Message-ID: <3E0CB1E1.98C06663@aaa.com>    "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > H > The bracket is not on the standard scandinavian LAxxx keyboards (it isG > compose parenthesis^2), while the greater than & less than signs are.  >  > Dweeb.  H On a standard scandinavian *PC* keyboard, the [] are AltGr-8 and AltGr-92 which is what most VMS'ers use today, I'd guess...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:51:05 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>@ Subject: Re: ";*" vs. ".*" (Was: Re: is VMS really easy to use?), Message-ID: <3E0CBD39.6000006@tsoft-inc.com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:    > "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > H >>The bracket is not on the standard scandinavian LAxxx keyboards (it isG >>compose parenthesis^2), while the greater than & less than signs are.  >> >>Dweeb. >> > J > On a standard scandinavian *PC* keyboard, the [] are AltGr-8 and AltGr-94 > which is what most VMS'ers use today, I'd guess... >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.  > N Don't know about most. I'm typing on a LK-411-AA, with the [] keys just to the) right of the <return>. No shift required.     + PC keyboards aren't even good boat anchors.    Dave   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:52:17 GMT / From: "Curtis Justus" <donotspamme@foo.bar.edu>  Subject: ASCII files & NFS: Message-ID: <Rb2P9.27060$P36.495763@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>   Hello,  F I am using Hummingbird's NFS Maestro to transfer text files between anL OpenVMS system and Windows NT.  My problem is when I create an ASCII file onI the Windows side and put it on the mounted drive, the record format looks  like this on the VAX:   ) Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32787   I This is causing a third-party import package to fail.  I have changed the K format from Stream_LF to Stream and that does not work.  I created the same K file without the CR, copied it over and had the same problem.  If I use FTP D to copy the file manually, it works fine (which makes sense with the6 inherent functionality in FTP to convert ASCII files).  K Hopefully, it doesn't show, but I have had extensive experience being an NT I and UNIX administrator, but am very rusty at the VAX.  Would anybody have # any pointers or things I could try?    Thanks in advance, cj   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:52:21 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> Subject: Re: ASCII files & NFS/ Message-ID: <3E0CBD7A.164EC190@vl.videotron.ca>    Curtis Justus wrote:H > I am using Hummingbird's NFS Maestro to transfer text files between an  > OpenVMS system and Windows NT.  ' What TCPIP stack are you using on VMS ?     + > Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32787   H Try DUMP the file to see exactly what is in it (CR LF, LF or whatever).   H If you edit the file on VMS, does it look OK ? If so, you could then useS CONVERT/FDL to create a version of the file in a format your VMS application wants.   N ( CONVERT/FDL  changes the physical contents but not the logical contents, SETM FILE/ATTRIB does not change the file but changes how VMS processes the file).   K You may wish to look at the TCPIP Management reference manual (available on G the www.openvms.compaq.com web site in the "VMS documentation") for the L section on NFS, more importantly on the section that discusses ADF files. IfM your Windows originated files have a particular file extentions, you might be V able to have them created with proper attributes by placing an ADF file in SYS$SYSTEM.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 09:45:22 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: ASCII files & NFS8 Message-ID: <s7oq0vcshooklplis4ndr16tm7dp3aj0ga@4ax.com>  1 On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:52:17 GMT, "Curtis Justus"   <donotspamme@foo.bar.edu> wrote:   >Hello,  > G >I am using Hummingbird's NFS Maestro to transfer text files between an M >OpenVMS system and Windows NT.  My problem is when I create an ASCII file on J >the Windows side and put it on the mounted drive, the record format looks >like this on the VAX: > * >Stream_LF, maximum 0 bytes, longest 32787  B This is the standard "C format" file type that VMS creates. If a CF program creates a file in VMS (not using RMS routines), then these areE the standard file attributes for that file. The max. record length in D VMS is 32767 bytes, but since the file is not produced with RMS, VMSC has no way of knowing the real max. record lenth. And since a ascii D record in C files has a LF character as terminator, this is what you@ get. In case of a foreign FTP client, I suppose VMS encounters a7 similar problem of not knowing the true record lengths.   B Just a simple convert like suggested in another message will forceF convert to inspect the input records, and will result in the true max.A record length in the output file, without changing anything else.   F Most likely your application (build against RMS) stumbled over the maxF record length, because it is told to expect records of 32767 bytes and is not layed out for that.         > J >This is causing a third-party import package to fail.  I have changed theL >format from Stream_LF to Stream and that does not work.  I created the sameL >file without the CR, copied it over and had the same problem.  If I use FTPE >to copy the file manually, it works fine (which makes sense with the 7 >inherent functionality in FTP to convert ASCII files).  > L >Hopefully, it doesn't show, but I have had extensive experience being an NTJ >and UNIX administrator, but am very rusty at the VAX.  Would anybody have$ >any pointers or things I could try? >  >Thanks in advance,  >cj  >    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 02 21:07:44 +0100) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) J Subject: Re: ASKQ and special characters, was: Re: just a couple of things) Message-ID: <suRvgjZ2wlSC@elias.decus.ch>   x In article <bGab$aHaVAbp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:   <snip>   >  > I > I don't know what it is about special characters and search interfaces.  > C > Try the following (discovered just yesterday) in askq.compaq.com:  > 2 > 1) Enter "ioc_std$movtouser" without the quotes. > H > Note that you get a documentation errors document as the first result.J > Note that you also get 16000+ documents matched as it's split the input. > K > 2) Now return to the starting page and reenter "ioc_std$movtouser" _with_ % > the quotes to force an exact match.  > H > Note that the (relevant) documentation errors document, which contains! > the search string, is now gone.  > K > 3) Return to the starting page again and enter "std$movtouser" _with_ the B > quotes. Note that the documentation errors document is now back. > G > It would appear not to like the underscore as a literal search string  > character. > ? The (what is to me strange) use of delimiters crops up in other  places too.   < Memories of the following coming in SYS$MANAGER:EDTINI.EDT :  ' ! Define delimiters for the word entity & SET ENTITY WORD '  .,?!;:[]()<>*-+=/\'  @ It's only in the .TEMPLATE nowadays, but many moons ago, it came? as the default. I used to find it very annoying and it would be 5 one of the first things I switched off way back when.   < In contrast, double clicking on a full file specification in@ a DECterm session will select the full name, which I find handy,C but  KDE and Mac Terminal will apply $ : . ; as delimiters. I found 2 a way around that for KDE, but not yet on the Mac.   --  
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 14:59:53 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth)3 Message-ID: <hglw$2nSbjAf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E0DF790.6060101@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  6 > Key strokes in a VMS editor are *not* echoed back by > the terminal driver !   = Certainly they are for TECO, up until one enters a terminator 5 character, at which point the application takes over.   @ That is one of the reasons TECO character handling is efficient.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 22:10:12 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>< Subject: Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth)) Message-ID: <3E0E1334.1020600@vajhoej.dk>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  d > In article <3E0DF790.6060101@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:6 >>Key strokes in a VMS editor are *not* echoed back by >>the terminal driver !  > ? > Certainly they are for TECO, up until one enters a terminator 7 > character, at which point the application takes over.  > B > That is one of the reasons TECO character handling is efficient.    & And probably also in EDT in line mode.  8 But when the VAX 8650 was released, then screen mode was the standard for VMS editing.    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 15:20:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) < Subject: Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth)3 Message-ID: <h2v+CmeVZnMz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E0E1334.1020600@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > e >> In article <3E0DF790.6060101@vajhoej.dk>, Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: 7 >>>Key strokes in a VMS editor are *not* echoed back by  >>>the terminal driver ! >>  @ >> Certainly they are for TECO, up until one enters a terminator8 >> character, at which point the application takes over. >>  C >> That is one of the reasons TECO character handling is efficient.  >  > ( > And probably also in EDT in line mode. > : > But when the VAX 8650 was released, then screen mode was > the standard for VMS editing.   / I am talking about TECO in screen mode (6,7;w).    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:33:20 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>< Subject: Re: Character echo (was: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth)) Message-ID: <3E0E26B0.7070905@vajhoej.dk>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:  1 > I am talking about TECO in screen mode (6,7;w).     + I never used TECO, so I do not have a clue.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:29:44 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG5 Subject: Re: Determining a driver base address on VAX 0 Message-ID: <00A1914D.A337F47A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <63D30D6E10CFD11190A90000F805FE860492AF2D@LESPAUL>, Mike Duffy <Duffy@process.com> writes:  > 5 >Been playing primarily with Alpha too long and can't 5 >remember the VAX way.  I need to determine the base  2 >address of a device driver from within a program. > 8 >On Alpha (and VAX for other types of loadable images), 3 >I'd rummage through the list of loaded images, do  8 >a LDR$REF_INFO, and go from there.  On VAX, the drivers; >I'm interested are not included there (LDR$GQ_IMAGE_LIST).  >  >I need the equivalent of: >  >$ ANALYZE/SYSTEM  >SDA> EVAL DKDRIVER . >Hex = 8091E780	Decimal = -2137921664	DKDRIVER  H Lock the IO database mutex and walk the list of DDBs from IOC$GL_DEVLISTH or the list of DPTs from IOC$GL_DPTLIST.  Search for the driver by name I (that is how you want to find it I presume from the EVAL DKDRIVER example I above) at DDB$T_DRVNAME/DPT$T_NAME.  If you want the address you get from I SDA EVAL DKDRIVER, use the DPT.  The address of the matching DPT *is* the G driver base address.  If you need other driver information you may want  to walk the DDB list.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:06:44 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ) Message-ID: <3E0DF644.3000309@vajhoej.dk>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:   > OK, I should have made that:B >          n! = "the product of all positive integers from 1 to n" > ? > But my point was that the above is not a true definition of a ? > factorial even though that is what most people learn up to at ? > least the 12th grade. The one case that disproves this is, of  > course, "0".  !0 == 1.      9 Actually that fact does not contradict the rule, the rule . does just not define the result for that case.  B So the rule is correct but not sufficient to define the factorial.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:27:59 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: is VMS really easy to use? T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660C58@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,   H >>> If an unused machine with nothing running but the login screen saver> runs out of virtual memory, what would you attribute it to?<<<  H Well, to be fair .. Lots of other W2K systems run for longer than a week without this problem.=20  G The issue is likely an older version of W2K not up to latest patches or F some background ISV/home grown application or piece of code acting up. Latest version is W2K SP3.  8 The usual "what version" questions also applies here.=20  G I would also wonder if you have "let Windows manage the virtual memory" G setting in place (Windows will expand file) or has a to small page file  been setup manually.  C Fwiw, I have seen this issue on some of my home systems with Norton E anti-virus and some freeware utilities like Kazaa running at the same  time.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard (Canada) Co.! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: kerryDOTmain@hpDOTcom-     (remove the DOT's and replace with "."'s)        -----Original Message-----6 From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu]=20 Sent: December 28, 2002 1:45 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use?     / In article <v0r7jdlgk2sc71@corp.supernews.com>, $ 	Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:/ > Bill Gunshannon <bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu> wrote: E >: I guess we have different concepts of Enterprise Critical quality. D >: I hardly consider something with memory leaks big enough to driveH >: a Mack truck thru to be even close.  I only work with it here becauseC >: I have to, and I spend a lot of time lobbying to replace it with @ >: one of the current Unix flavors now that they have a quite=20 >respectable+ >: Office Suite that can even read MS docs.  >=20H > Where in Win 2000 or NT is this huge memory leak you keep referring=20 > to?   : Not having the source, how could I possibly know?? But, as9 I mentioned a few messages ago, if I leave the lab locked 8 for more than aweek I return to find an error message on@ the screen of every machine stating that virtual memory has beenC exhausted.  If an unused machine with nothing running but the login H screen saver runs out of virtual memory, what would you attribute it to?   bill   --=20 C Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three  wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |C Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 13:28:55 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? ' Message-ID: <3E0CA9F7.91CE44AF@fsi.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 5 > In article <yPw9KMz8dFP4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 9 >         Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: d > > In article <auht0l$768v1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:B > >> In article <b096a4ee.0212270607.1887fb34@posting.google.com>,: > >>      spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:k > >>> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...  > > N > >>>> But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so > >>> : > >>> Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean? > >> > >> $cd :== set def > >> $rm :== delete ? > >> $vi :== "EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SYS$USERDISK:[BOB237]EDTINI.EDT"  > >> > >> And so on.....  > > D > > Those are DCL symbols, not logical names.  There are significant > > differences. > F > OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in the > end it's all the same.   Eh, not quite.  H If you tell me you use a logical "QUIBBLEDUNK", to find it's translation? in your process I will (more or less) instinctively start with:    $ SH LOG QUIB*  G ...and upon not finding it (assuming I have the spelling correct), I'll 	 next try:    $ sh log/tab=* quibbledunk  D ...which will again fail because you really meant to say that it's a process global symbol.  H Similarly, if you tell me you use a symbol EDTINI, I will try to find it in your process using:   $ SH SYM EDTINI    ...then, failing that, ...   $ SH SYM/GLO EDTINI   G ...which will likewise fail because you really meant to say that it's a # logical name in your LNM$JOB table.   . Aliases, AFAIK, can be at any of three levels:  - o An alias defined in the .CLD for a DCL verb + o An alias name for a file (SET FILE/ENTER) D o An alaised logical name DEFINEd in a less privileged mode than the	 original.   D Not sure if there's a VMS use for the term "nickname", other than an6 appropriate abbreviation for any command or qualifier.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2002 13:47:26 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <170Hpfry8N24@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <aui5re$7etlu$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <6sWBm5K1PAVC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 > 	young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: >> In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:K >>> I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS not H >>> LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promotesK >>> lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diff L >>> account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think aboutM >>> trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correct # >>> VMS command to do something.     >>>  >>  @ >> 	Another fellow here has a  command for everything.  I'm sure) >> 	many of us have something similar to:  >>   >> 	$ sq :== show queue  >>  @ >> 	We are saving keystrokes, nothing wrong with that.  Unix hasB >> 	you saving keystrokes up front and forcing you to remember the
 >> 	insanity.  > @ > So, let's see if I have this right.  Unix created really shortF > commands because of the high cost (particularly in time) of enteringF > these commands and that is now seen as a bad thing.  But today, whenE > that cost is minimal to non-existant it's a good thing when someone C > does it themself??  You can remember that "sq" means "show queue" D > but the average Unix user is totally baffled by the idea that "rm" > means "remove".  Amazing.  >   < 	If you got tired of typing grep, you could create an alias = 	"g".  A twisted point you are attempting to make, I suppose. G 	Unix commands are crap and you have to know what they really map to.   E 	Delete in VMS maps to delete.  If you are tired of typing $ delete   D 	... you could create a symbol $ d :== delete.  If you are tired of A 	typing rm in Unix, you are probably a very tired person I guess.    >>  D >> 	In the "why Unix sucks wars" we end up at the shell or CLI.  TheG >> 	reasons are there in a minor sense, but not many.  The real reasons B >> 	Unix is inferior are deeper than the CLI and Unix is now less A >> 	inferior as Sun almost has a good cluster now it appears.  Or H >> 	good marketing.  Didn't Sun recently invent long distant clustering? > G > So you think Unix inferiority is all tied to the lack of clustering??   ( 	Not only.  That is a good point though.  ? > Just how many computer users today actually need clusters??     > 	As many that could use high availability with quick recovery.  	Yes, there are other solutions.   > I can F > assure you that in my environment they offer absolutely no advantageD > and that means the added complexity is a minus rather than a plus. >   = 	I would suggest you don't have a good clustering solution in  	mind.   >>  , >> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-963615.html >>   >> October 28, 2002  >>  N >> "Sun Microsystems has come up with a way to insulate computer networks fromR >> fires, floods and bomb attacks: Split up the machines and put them in different >> cities. " > I > I run a collection of servers (about 12 at this point) for the academic I > department of a small University in NEPA.  How would being able to have @ > multiple servers in remote locations make this work better??    > 	Better isn't the operative word.  More available is.  Is more0 	available a good thing?  I would suggest it is.  
 > If thereI > is a flood (we're on the 4th floor and the building is over 500' higher G > than the nearest water that is likely to flood), or a fire, or a bomb J > or an earthquake or a [m]ine subsidence (the most likely around here) it0 > won't do much good having servers in Denver.    9 	Denver PA or Denver CO?  Denver CO makes no sense as you C 	wouldn't be clustering 1800 miles away.  But if you had a computer B 	room fire, having clustered servers elsewhere would make you look 	good.   > we will be shut down andG > have no users.  Oh yeah, my uptime performance is much beter than the G > campus network so there's another reason not to bother worrying about  > clusters.  >    	Too bad.     > 	I get around network problems by having a point to point linkC 	via Memory Channel with fibre option and it has saved the cluster  G 	on more than one occasion.  Of course you couldn't get to the cluster  , 	for a time, but jobs were still running :-)   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:52:20 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 0 Message-ID: <00A19148.6A2EC6C3@SendSpamHere.ORG>  ` In article <aui522$6tfih$4@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:1 >In article <00A1911A.72E33140@sendspamhere.org>, $ >	VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <2D75787AAF09C64481BDFD89113BE6D5B35FE7@ac2kama0102.ac.lp.acml.com>, "Bochnik, William J" <William_Bochnik@acml.com> writes:J >>>I think what he was trying to say is setting up a series of SYMBOLS notG >>>LOGICALS to emulate unix command on VMS is a bad idea as it promotes J >>>lazyness, as well as a problem if you go to another machine with a diffK >>>account that doesnt have all your fancy symbols set up. Just think about L >>>trying to get a machine working at 2am and you can't remember the correct" >>>VMS command to do something.    >>  M >> A long long time ago I wrote a utility called PERMANENT and released it to 5 >> the freeware archive maintained by Hunter Goatley.  >>  M >> I originally used this utility to create unix command symbols on VMS such   >> as: >>  
 >> $ LS == ""  >> $ PERMANENT LS 
 >> $ CD == ""  >> $ PERMANENT CD  >> $ GREP == ""  >> $ PERMANENT GREP  >>  K >> and so on in the SYLOGIN.COM file of the systems I managed.  This forced K >> all of the unix types in service to the DoD to have to learn to use VMS! I >> PERMANENT creates permanent DCL symbols such as $STATUS that cannot be ( >> deleted.  So, when a unix type enters >>   >> $ GREP gobbledegook >>   >> they get: >>  I >> %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling 
 >>  \GREP\ >>  + >> And, any attempt to redefine it such as:  >>   >> $ GREP == SEARCH  >>  
 >> yields: >>  @ >> %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling >>  \SEARCH\ >>   > ? >And while it may come as a surprise to many here, I think that @ >is probably a good idea for reasons I have stated in an earlier> >message.  But.......  I also think it is a bad idea because IA >strongly believe that the machine is our slave and not the other A >way around.  While I will not automatically create those aliases A >for my users, I will not stop anyone from doing so if it is what ? >they really want to do.  Just as I would not stop someone from > >creating aliases that mimiced VMS, MSDOS or MVS on one of our >Unix servers.  I But in my case, I'd have them running to me because they borrowed another I user's definition of GREP, LS, CD, etc. and complain that it doesn't work I like it does on their unix machine.  I had more important things to do to H pass my time and baby-sitting very stupid user problems interferred with that activity.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:38:54 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 2 Message-ID: <3E0CD642.36FB5F0F@firstdbasource.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  <snip>B > Well, I went over to the Alpha run by the datacenter for generalA > academic use to find examples that countered your argument, but D > it seems that one of my previous arguments has made this one moot.F > We used to have "vmstar", "emacs", "kermit" and "GhostScript" (amongC > others) available on the system.  I know that there was no "HELP" C > available for "vmstar", "emacs", or "GhostScript".  But, being as E > none of these are even available anymore, I guess your right, there ? > probably is HELP available for everything on the system.  :-)     H They may still be available, you just don't have them installed.  I haveF used VMSTAR many times over the past 6 months or so... even on VMS7.3  <snip>   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 15:02:00 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212281501.6230465e@posting.google.com>   T Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message news:<3E0DF644.3000309@vajhoej.dk>... > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >   > > OK, I should have made that:D > >          n! = "the product of all positive integers from 1 to n" > > A > > But my point was that the above is not a true definition of a A > > factorial even though that is what most people learn up to at A > > least the 12th grade. The one case that disproves this is, of  > > course, "0".  !0 == 1.   > ; > Actually that fact does not contradict the rule, the rule 0 > does just not define the result for that case. > D > So the rule is correct but not sufficient to define the factorial. >  > Arne  F Actually, you could argue that it does cover the case zero because theE multiplicative identity is one. In fact, you need to assume that just C for one factorial, because otherwise you have no product, because a % product implies at least two numbers.   D Or you could even say all positive integers from 1 to zero, but zeroC is not positive, so you are left with one. (Your definition did not C say you have to go from smaller numbers to larger numbers. In fact,  for 1!, you have to stay put!)  E NTL, I don't know who teaches that definition. I learned it with that B definition (or one very similar to it) plus the explicit statementE that 0! = 1. In fact, it is easy to show that defining zero factorial C as such is the natural thing to do. 2! is 3! divided by 3, 1! is 2! F divided by 2, ... 0! is 1! divided by 1, which is obviously 1. And theF fact that n! = (n+1)!/(n+1) is not only the factorial's most importantD property, it is it's defining property (aside from normalization, ofB course). It is exactly how it arises in the first place (in TaylorB series, e.g.) and in that context, you get the correct, normalizedD result. And from that it quickly follows that zero! = one. Also, theD fact that zero! equals one is therefore not an arbirtrary defintion.E It must be that in order for the function to be useful. So mentioning D it in the definition is not absolutely required, though it does help clarify what zero factorial is.   B A similar thing happens when trying to assign meaning to raising aB number to the zeroth power. By the same reasoning, you again get 16 (except for 0 raised to the zeroth power, of course!).  D What is your definition of multiplication? I bet it's m times n is mD n's added together. But what if m is one? How can you add one n? YouF add it to the additive identity, zero, of course. How can you add zeroD n's? Again, the additive identity, 0, comes in to play and is itselfF the answer. How can you add a negative number of something? A rationalE number? A real, or complex number. If someone asks you the definition C of multiplication, are you going to cover all these cases right off D the bat? Are you going to include all its important properties (like> it's commutative, associative, distributive properties) in theF definition? You could. Are you going to include the rules for negativeB numbers and imaginary numbers? You could, but then you'd basically  have the beginnings of a lesson.  2 You *can* go too far worrying about these things.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman   C Stay tuned! We'll be right back with more commercials. But first, a  few minutes of the program.    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 15:23:27 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212281523.6a281c15@posting.google.com>   e bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aui4o1$6tfih$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>... 5 > In article <yPw9KMz8dFP4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:d > > In article <auht0l$768v1$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:B > >> In article <b096a4ee.0212270607.1887fb34@posting.google.com>,6 > >> 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:k > >>> bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aughgr$73t0o$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>...  >  cN > >>>> But, just like writting logicals to mimic Unix on VMS is a bad idea, so > >>> ; > >>> Writing logicals to mimic Unix? What does that mean? a > >> s > >> $cd :== set def > >> $rm :== delete ? > >> $vi :== "EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=SYS$USERDISK:[BOB237]EDTINI.EDT"s > >> u > >> And so on.....  > > D > > Those are DCL symbols, not logical names.  There are significant > > differences. > F > OK, a matter of semantics.  LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, NICKNAME, in the > end it's all the same. >  > > E > >> Surely you saw other people mention this here the last time thisa > >> topic made the rounds.r > > K > > You underestimate the strongly appealing notion of skipping topics like 	 > > this.r > F > Maybe, but being in education, seeing people continue spout the sameG > ridiculous garbage just rubs me the wrong way.  (I also disagree with G > teaching that n! = "the product of all integers from 1 to n" because  A > although it is correct in all but one case, it is still wrong.)e >  > bill  B I just notices you said "teaching", not defining. So how would youD teach what n! is? Surely you wouldn't start with the Gamma function!  F Factorials are very convenient for writing Taylor series and I believeC that that is where they are usually taught. And in that context younF see that numbers are being multiplied in a manner that is described by? your "wrong" definition. So teaching factorials really involvesnF teaching Taylor series, and when teaching that it becomes obvious that 0! = 1.   ? OTOH, factorials do also arise in the binomial expansion and in E counting permutations and combinations. I don't have time to considereF that now, but I bet that the same or very similar reasoning to get theD value of zero factorial arises there too. Maybe I'll expound on that later. Maybe not.a   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  Alan E. Feldman-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:40:39 -0600,1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>8; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands.& Message-ID: <3E0CC8D7.9C2F34B@fsi.net>   Mark Berryman wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >t > .  > .h > .cB > > Other posters are indeed correct. There are some MAJOR caveatsC > > surrounding the use of DCL$PATH. I use it everyday, but I don't - > > recommend it for "general user" accounts.  > >a > J > Elaborate please.  All my systems make use of DCL$PATH for all users and, > I have yet to encounter a problem with it.  > I took info. gleaned from this newsgroup for my DECUS Fall '993 presentations. You can find the relevant slides at:*  5 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/dclinter/sld010.htm-5 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/dclinter/sld011.htmo5 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/dclinter/sld012.htms  5 Be sure to read the notes at the bottom of the pages.   F The original poster cited a .COM file invoked as a result of the errorH which did relatively little damage. However, the potential for data loss is real.  ( This URL I believe is the original post:   http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&frame=right&th=d433f40d109a65d5&seekm=380B4E2E.1E49060F%40advocatehealth.com#link1i  B That probably wrapped. If it's useless, just do a Google search of> comp.os.vms for DCL$PATH and the info. should come up for you.   --   David J. Dachtera: dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/4   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:53:03 -0800t0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands , Message-ID: <3E0E1D3F.414528E4@Mvb.Saic.Com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: >  > Mark Berryman wrote: > >t > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > >8 > > .h > > .a > > . D > > > Other posters are indeed correct. There are some MAJOR caveatsE > > > surrounding the use of DCL$PATH. I use it everyday, but I don'tw/ > > > recommend it for "general user" accounts.o > > >I > >sL > > Elaborate please.  All my systems make use of DCL$PATH for all users and. > > I have yet to encounter a problem with it. > @ > I took info. gleaned from this newsgroup for my DECUS Fall '995 > presentations. You can find the relevant slides at:u > 7 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/dclinter/sld010.htmI7 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/dclinter/sld011.htm-7 > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/dclinter/sld012.htm  > 7 > Be sure to read the notes at the bottom of the pages.: > H > The original poster cited a .COM file invoked as a result of the errorJ > which did relatively little damage. However, the potential for data loss
 > is real. > * > This URL I believe is the original post: >  > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&frame=right&th=d433f40d109a65d5&seekm=380B4E2E.1E49060F%40advocatehealth.com#link1  > D > That probably wrapped. If it's useless, just do a Google search of@ > comp.os.vms for DCL$PATH and the info. should come up for you. >   H All of these reference a single issue, that of wildcards with respect toG DCL$PATH.  One of them also gives the solution which is to place a filei5 called $.COM into DCL$PATH.  Here is what is in mine:    $ type dcl$path:$.com 
 $exit %x38090r  B and here is what results on my systems from the examples you cite:   $ *oF %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling   $ dirdisk:*.txtfA %DCL-W-NOLBLS, label ignored - use only within command proceduresn  \DIRDISK:\gF %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  C I suppose it depends on what the results of wildcards might be on a2G given system as to whether or not this is a major caveat.  For example,AD on my system, typing a* will invoke the acrobat reader or typing z*pD will invoke zip but is this really an issue?  If it is, its a ratherD simple issue to make each entry in DCL$PATH a command procedure thatC validates the command verb before invoking the real utility.  Stillw1 easier than maintaining many foreign verbs, IMHO.   G Ok, that is one caveat which, I think, is easily resolved.  Any others?s  
 Mark Berrymanh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:17:16 -0400a0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...i/ Message-ID: <3E0CB543.E5073022@vl.videotron.ca>s   Shane Smith wrote: > A > The original Star Wars is a fairy tale set in a science fictiondF > universe. Princess kidnapped by evil magician, rescued by prince whoD > thinks he's a commoner, big battle, prince beats evil magician who$ > sneaks off so he can be in sequel.  ( NO ! That was the story for Space Balls.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:42:33 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e/ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to all VMS'ers ...r' Message-ID: <3E0CC949.DD4DA5DF@fsi.net>t   JF Mezei wrote:h >  > Shane Smith wrote: > > C > > The original Star Wars is a fairy tale set in a science fictionxH > > universe. Princess kidnapped by evil magician, rescued by prince whoF > > thinks he's a commoner, big battle, prince beats evil magician who& > > sneaks off so he can be in sequel. > * > NO ! That was the story for Space Balls.   Thank you, Pizza the Hut.a   -- l David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:18:28 -0500l* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: Of Galaxy, Infiniband and Distributed Caching2 Message-ID: <QRmdnTxQPOVmlJCjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:LChUYQzjHNW$@eisner.encompasserve.org...7@ > In article <XbucnYGGuNz05JSjXTWc2Q@metrocast.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:   ...s  D > > Surely this cannot be the same Rob Young who not so long ago was
 trumpetingI > > the inevitable victory of ADMP (an acronym which HP's web site is notd ableL > > to find, nor is Google in anything but French and German) over all other > > mere MP boxes? > >c >s; > Well... spelling it correctly would help.  It isn't ADMP.   ? So what is it, then?  I *did* get hits in French and German foruA 'Galaxy/ADMP' in connection with Tru64 (and I think VMS as well).r   ...c  I > > No matter, since the comment is the same regardless:  Galaxy/ADMP and K > > Infiniband are complementary technologies with virtually no overlap, sor ADMP= > > is worth exactly as much, or as little, as it always was.  > ; > That was the point of my posting.  Showing advantages andc > disadvantages.  D No, you were attempting to show *compensatory* aspects of IB vs. theK possible lack of Galaxy support in Itanic systems (at least that's what you C said).  Galaxy is about dynamic reallocation of resources within MPnL environments, whereas IB is about interconnecting resources in cluster-styleH environments (as noted, it's not really fast enough for good distributedJ memory):  they complement each other rather than in any way substitute for each other.    > H > > Something as low-latency and high-bandwidth as Infiniband is, as you note,nJ > > extremely attractive for things like distributed caches (or caching at thedH > > storage device), but in no way helps a system dynamically reallocate > > resources. >o@ > Galaxy in its current incarnation doesn't dynamically allocateD > much at all, other than CPUs.  Sure, you can change things but youD > are at a console prompt when you do it.  There were Galaxy futuresC > that showed memory being dynamically moved around, but that isn't- > here yet.   L 'Were'?  Are you suggesting that the fast, fine-grained dynamic reassignmentH of CPUs and memory is no longer part of the VMS roadmap (such as it is)?   >lD > >  And IB is not fast enough to support anything but distressinglyL > > NUMA distributed shared memory (why you think that 2 - 10 us. latency isD > > comparable to EV7's 390 ns. worst-case latency in a 64-processor& > > configuration is not clear at all) >i >nE > Part of what I included was application.  Certainly for HPTC Galaxy E > would be a winner, but as Andrew points out that is a small segmentn4 > of the market.  HPTC and VMS?  Very small segment.  L My impression was that Galaxy was aimed at commercial activity - especially,H the ability to divert CPU power to whatever activity in a multi-functionJ server most needed it, on an instantaneous basis.  Very important segment,J in other words - and a very good way to leverage available processor power rather than over-equip systems.S   ...   > > Again, XFC would use all free memory.  Galaxy can't/won't inA > its current incrarnation so you have more memory available as a,& > file cache (mentioned that earlier).  K Huh?  XFC is a distributed cache.  Galaxy is a hardware-level mechanism for J dynamically partitioning resources.  You could *use* some of Galaxy memoryI as some kind of central cache (which we've discussed at length long ago),-I but once again you're talking about two *complementary* facilities rather@" than any kind of either/or choice.     The latency of Infinibanda? > is very tolerable for remote reads of file cache (from what Ia+ > understand, correct me if I'm off there).v  H I agree:  while several-microsecond latency is not really acceptable forL main memory these days, it's very acceptable for a cache hit (cache accessesG being persumably multiple orders of magnitude less frequent than memory I accesses) - assuming that the cached data is fetched into local memory onnD the hit so that subsequent use of it proceeds at main-memory speeds.   >iC > Greatest advantage though is recoup or protecting CPU investment.s@ > Meaning that like CI it will offload IO and messaging to lower= > cost cards.  Querying someone about why they were using theeD > much slower CI as an interconnect, I was told Memory Channel would@ > saturate their CPUs and I know of another situation where thatB > happened.  I have no experience with Galaxy SMCI but since it isC > memory to memory and no helper chips, it too has to be pretty CPU  > intensive.  L I have no idea what SMCI is.  However, there's no reason for inter-partitionG transfers (though shared memory) within a Galaxy system to be *anywhereeD nearly* as CPU-intensive as message-structured transfers over commonI interconnects (including FC and, later, IB) are, so if that's what you'repD talking about I strongly suspect that you're reasoning from a flawed premise.   >9= > > By the way, at the moment IB appears to be heading toward0& > > low-volume/high-price niche status > A > Regarding IB niche status.  There is a lot of mythology out andaC > about here and you appear to have bought into it.  A lot of folks ? > are scared of new things and you have networking guys saying:O< > "we do IP, Infiniband? ... shiver me timbers, I'm scared."  E No, what I'm referring to is first the departure of Intel from the IBrK enclave ("We're still really enthusiastic about the product, but we'll justQL let other people develop the hardware for it..."), followed more recently byJ IBM IIRC.  No one who appears to know much about IB's current status seemsI to expect it to become the true commodity (i.e., including desktop-level) H interconnect that was once envisioned, but rather a high-end, low-volumeL server product - especially since without commodity-level volumes there's noE reason to expect its price to drop below that of Fibre Channel (whichDJ already supports 2 Gbit/sec with comparable host CPU overheads to those IBD should offer, and inter-host communication as well as simple storage	 linkage).i  K The story of the past year has been one of IB startups dropping like flies.EH There may still be enough industry interest to preserve IB as a high-endH niche product, but as of now there's clearly nothing more than that (and: still some possibility that it will simply be still-born).   >>D > Seriously, nothing will be able to compete with IB for price untilE > about 2006 for high-end interconnect.  IB is certainly cheaper thantI > 10 Gbit ethernet at an average of $50000 per port for 10 Gbit ethernet:   L I guess that depends on what you consider 'high-end'.   Gigabit Ethernet hasJ already become commonplace, with server-quality NICs under $100 (some evenI including intelligence to off-load the central processor at that price) - J and 100 MBytes/sec isn't exactly chopped liver.  FC NIC prices continue toK drop (IIRC they were starting to flirt with the $300 level well over a yearoD ago, so the 2 Gbit versions should be getting down there soon if notK already).  So quoting $50K/port for the barely-shipping 10 Gbit Ethernet is G something of a straw man (and of course assuming that its pricing won'tAL fairly quickly drop to something much closer to commodity levels just as allK other Ethernet variants have is also flying in the face of rather extensiveiL precedent), while citing $1000/port prices for IB when it first appears nextJ year isn't exactly inspiring (especially considering how difficult it will" be to find much to connect it to).   ...   > > That fact that Dell is jumping on Infiniband is an indicator > that it is cost effective.   Reference, please?   ...P  B > So for the next 3 years+, IB is definitely a better interconnect5 > for CPU offload reasons, latency reasons, and cost!t  H Gigabit Ethernet costs less than 10% of the IB costs you're citing.  ItsG NICs are starting to incorporate 'offload engines' that reduce host CPUoK involvement to FC and IB levels.  It can offer one-way latencies in the 10saI of microseconds range, which is adequate for most things that IB might benJ usable for (even remote caching).  So unless a link requires more than 100I MBytes/sec of sustained bandwidth, it will remain a *far* more attractivem option.O  L 2 Gbit Fiber Channel costs less than 1/3 of the IB costs you're citing, alsoI offloads host CPUs to about the same extent that IB does, and IIRC offersoI more like 10 us. latency, so, again, unless a link requires more than 200aL MBytes/sec sustained bandwidth it will be a much more attractive option (andI 10 Gbit FC is on the near horizon, though I don't know anything about itsd projected costs).f   ...r     Infiniband should H > have a superior cost structure for quite some time, have no idea whereD > people (yourself included) get this idea that IB will be at a costD > disadvantage, if nothing else, that certainly isn't the case.  AreC > you comparing to Gbit Ethernet?  Cost the same, IB is much fasters > (10 Gbit versus Gbit).  H See above:  your cost figures for Gbit Ethernet appear to be quite a fewI years out of date (or perhaps years of DECpaq experience have conditionedd4 you to paying 10x the market price for such things).   >  > So ... coming back around... >e> > What about Infiniband advantages versus Galaxy?  If you lashE > together 16 - 4 CPU servers with Infiniband, would that "do" Oraclen3 > better than a Galaxied partitioned 64 CPU server?e   No:  not nearly as well.     Wouldn't you= > get more CPU with IB helping, therefore better performance?   D Not only are you apparently confused about the relative overheads ofH inter-partition communication in Galaxy compared with *any* interconnectG (even an efficient one like IB), and not only are you assuming that the2G static partitioning into 4-CPU nodes will be as effective as some other0@ division of labor, and not only are you ignoring the latency andH synchronization overheads of using Oracle's data-shipping 'cache fusion'K mechanisms rather than one or a small number of larger, centralized caches,vH but you're also ignoring Galaxy's ability to shuffle CPUs dynamically toI adjust to instantaneous load variations (assuming, that is, that it's notl5 optimal to run all 64 EV7s in a single system image).6   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2002 20:00:12 GMT+ From: ka2doug@cs.common.nom (Doug Phillips)G# Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Queryh= Message-ID: <20021227150012.15080.00000761@mb-fe.news.cs.com>t   Kilgallen quotes Vlems:m >c8 >> Nobody I know uses the name openVMS. In fact the few < >>times that the name openVMS pops up in conversation it is 9 >>used by persons that have no knowledge about computers.D >>
 And responds:3 >D= >That is why "Open" is useful, to sort out the inexperienced. 6 >I have heard of headhunters looking for someone with / >OpenVMS experience rather than VMS experience.O >A  - You know the Open is silent and you say VMS. l  ) I know the Open is silent and I say VMS. e  < Most everyone  reading this group knows the Open is silent.   7 But as long as it is named *OpenVMS* then we should say 7 *OpenVMS* unless we know the person(s) we are speaking g8 to. Until HP (or whoever) changes it back to just *VMS* ? shouldn't we advocates promote the product by its actual name? l1 Do the uninformed masses need further confusion?    5 I would never assume that someone who says *OpenVMS* l: has no knowledge about computers. I would assume that they9 are either new to or inexperienced with VMS or that they .! don't know my level of knowledge.o     -Douga   ***************    VMS'er since 1979o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:59:24 -0400n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Query / Message-ID: <3E0CBF21.DFD07804@vl.videotron.ca>v   Doug Phillips wrote:9 > to. Until HP (or whoever) changes it back to just *VMS*k@ > shouldn't we advocates promote the product by its actual name?  K openVMS refers to a dark age of VMS when Palmer was actively trying to kill/ it.   K VMS refers to its glory days when VMS was poised to take over the world and- could have crushed Gates.   M "open" was a fad, a "soupe du jour" that no longer has meaning and hasn't had L meaning for a long time. It was wrong to take a temporary buzzword to a longM lasting operating system. The insistence to preserve the OPEN makes it hardercL for customers to beleieve that the new owner intends to do thing differently	 with VMS.>  M Note that during Pfeiffer's short reign, advertisers had "VMS". (remember theCL fuel pumps ?) Everyone was happy that the Palmer sillyness was finally over.K Unfortunatly, Compaq kept not only the wrong ex-DEC filks, but also ditchedtP its own advertising firm to get the one from DEC. It's been downhill ever since.  E If HP really wants to prove to customers that they intend to take VMS 7 seriously, then they should officially drop the "open".e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 17:02:31 -0400n0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca># Subject: Re: OpenVMS Branding Query / Message-ID: <3E0CBFDB.86C9EDE6@vl.videotron.ca>m   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:eB > And, lastly, the more "official" the context is, the more reason5 > of course to use the vendors offical name, OpenVMS.r  G I have the opposite mentality. With Digital/Compaq/HP I make a point ofuJ stating VMS, and if they tell me it is openVMS, I tell them that customersL know it as VMS and that while I realise they are forced to use open by their? employers, they cannot force customers to use an unwanted word.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 02:23:29 -0400o0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>, Subject: printing of string descriptors in C/ Message-ID: <3E0D4356.A81D1A8D@vl.videotron.ca>h  A Is there a magic trick to print a string descriptor with printf ?e  N right now, I have been adding a null to the end of descriptor strings and thenK use %s in the printf control string, but this is tedious. Just wondering if  there is an easier method.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:13:09 +0300u2 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@StarLet.SPB.RU>0 Subject: Re: printing of string descriptors in C- Message-ID: <3E0D5D15.1040304@StarLet.SPB.RU>"  1 	printf("%*.s",zz.dsc$w_length,zz.dsc.a_pointer);T     JF Mezei wrote:hC > Is there a magic trick to print a string descriptor with printf ?n > P > right now, I have been adding a null to the end of descriptor strings and thenM > use %s in the printf control string, but this is tedious. Just wondering ifv > there is an easier method. >      -- t Cheers, Ruslan.rD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+=        Mobile: +7 (812) 116-3222/NMT,   8 901 300-0102/IMT-MCaB     TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU0                  http://starlet.spb.ru/~laishev/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 18:33:52 -0500 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>0 Subject: Re: printing of string descriptors in C/ Message-ID: <3E0DEE90.10512.1906D468@localhost>u  ' On 28 Dec 2002 at 2:23, JF Mezei wrote:mC > Is there a magic trick to print a string descriptor with printf ?   E printf ("%*.*s", dx.dsc$w_length, dx.dsc$w_length, dx.dsc$a_pointer);>    That does it every time...   :-)
 --Stan Quaylen Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------C Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363  Fax: +1 614 868-1671r1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147i= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:27:30 -0400d0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>+ Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file names / Message-ID: <3E0C9B90.327994D0@vl.videotron.ca>d   Elliott Roper wrote:  > But how much does a RD53 hold?  F My all mighty Microvax II now sports a 10 gig drive a far cry from the$ original 155meg RD54 that was in it.  G > VMS barfs on deeply nested directories anyway. It is a game not worthv
 > playing.  M Does VMS 7.2 still have such a limit ? I though i had dreamed that the 8 deepuM limit had been increased ? Anyhow, on the drive I am backing up, I don't go 8  deep so that isn't an issue.  I > Incidentally VMS 7.3-1 TCPIP with ODS2 does a better job of translatingt" > Mac names than earlier versions.  G file names , it seems so. But it was complaining about directory names.d  I For instance:  "Pilot's Folder" couldn't be created as a directory on VMSM  L However, "ISS Docs" did get translated to "ISS_DOCS", so there is some basic* filename translation even for directories.   (this is with TCPIP 5.3)    I You know, VMS still lacks one function ALL-IN-1 has had for so much time: L MAKE_FILE_NAME. You feed it anything, and it turns it into a valid filename,J and if it is too strange, it just generates a random filename. You'd thinkK that every operating system would have a similar function since there is soo6 much exchange bewteen different file systems nowadays.   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 22:19:57 -0800# From: dooleys@snowy.net.au (dooley)1+ Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP fixing up file nameso= Message-ID: <1ca82fc6.0212282219.77e088d2@posting.google.com>k  g JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3E0C9B90.327994D0@vl.videotron.ca>...S > Elliott Roper wrote:" > > But how much does a RD53 hold? > H > My all mighty Microvax II now sports a 10 gig drive a far cry from the& > original 155meg RD54 that was in it. > I > > VMS barfs on deeply nested directories anyway. It is a game not worthr > > playing. > O > Does VMS 7.2 still have such a limit ? I though i had dreamed that the 8 deepRO > limit had been increased ? Anyhow, on the drive I am backing up, I don't go 8  > deep so that isn't an issue. > K > > Incidentally VMS 7.3-1 TCPIP with ODS2 does a better job of translating"$ > > Mac names than earlier versions. > I > file names , it seems so. But it was complaining about directory names.n > K > For instance:  "Pilot's Folder" couldn't be created as a directory on VMSn > N > However, "ISS Docs" did get translated to "ISS_DOCS", so there is some basic, > filename translation even for directories. >  > (this is with TCPIP 5.3) >  > K > You know, VMS still lacks one function ALL-IN-1 has had for so much time:VN > MAKE_FILE_NAME. You feed it anything, and it turns it into a valid filename,L > and if it is too strange, it just generates a random filename. You'd thinkM > that every operating system would have a similar function since there is sop8 > much exchange bewteen different file systems nowadays.A So a directory called "Program Files" would show up as Progra~1 ?r It would never catch on. Phil   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 18:04:09 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)Y Subject: Re: The Factorial function (was Re: is VMS really easy to use?) (includes a brier= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212281804.678bfe8d@posting.google.com>   W "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message news:<2fqP9.20379$kq6.302617@news.xtra.co.nz>...m= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagem9 > news:b096a4ee.0212281316.276c9e89@posting.google.com...n > > * > > "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message3 >  news:<QAbP9.19180$kq6.291770@news.xtra.co.nz>...i; > > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in messagem5 > > > news:aui4o1$6tfih$3@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de...f > > >i > > > > (I also disagree withnL > > > > teaching that n! = "the product of all integers from 1 to n" becauseG > > > > although it is correct in all but one case, it is still wrong.)- > >-2 > > You (still) can't believe everything you read. > >MF > > > That's nothing, a quick search on the net turned up a definitionG > > > that n! is a product of itself and all whole numbers below it ...o? > > > Now I'm greasing my abacus since calculating 1! obviouslytE > > > requires going to minus infinity, not that it's gonna make muchp@ > > > difference since zero is also included, or does it? ... :) > >o> > > Since when are negative integers considered whole numbers? > >a > > > Well, yes, of course, mathematically speaking you are right.@ > But the original post(s) were in the context of "easy to use".; > Would you find it easy to explain to a typical practicing 1 > programmer just why -1 is *not* a whole number?r  B I was taught that the positive integers are natural numbers. I wasF taught that if you added zero to that, you got the whole numbers. SomeF mathematicians consider 0, 1, 2, ... to be the natural numbers. I haveC never heard of whole numbers including negative numbers. That woulds* make them indistinguishable from integers.  D www.webster.com says: any of the set of nonnegative integers; also : INTEGERE  D So, I guess if you using the terms whole numbers or natural numbers,0 you better spell out just exactly what you mean.  + > After all, where is it's fractional part?w   On NLA0: :-)   > Note that even= > the original poster in his later post [sort of] agreed with 0 > my example enough to re-phrase his definition.  B Well, he acknowledged that he forgot to include the word positive.  u= > Besides, the definition I turned up seems to imply that any ; > factorial is exactly zero anyway since zero *is* includede: > according to that. Or did you miss the smiley at the end > of what I wrote up there ?  > I guessed I missed the smiley, and perhaps some mathematicians. consider 1, 2, 3, ... to be the whole numbers.   > 4 > [Thanks for the lecture on the Gamma function btw]   Your welcome.    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:03:32 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E0DF584.5070705@vajhoej.dk>e   David Wade wrote:t  I >>>Its day was about 2-3 years before it was introduced, in that case. ;)o    @ >>A lot of those was used for number chrunching at universities. > I > At this it was great. Unfortunatley in many cases they were not used as I > number crunchers more as general purpose interactive machines. And thisiJ > tended to not show them at their best performance wise. For example whenF > running the VMS Editor each character was echoed back to the user atG > Application not OS level. So each time a user typed a character their N > program needed  to be unswapped, and dispatched to, all so it could echo theL > character back to the user. On a reasonable busy machibe this would result1 > in the dreaded "Type Behind" so loved by users.s     ????  : What does that have to do with the speed of the hardware ?  > All modern OS's echo characters back at the application level.  @ I have not tried a terminal & editor doing otherwise in 15 years% (never worked in an IBM environment).m   >>What were the alternatives ? > ; > Small IBM machines such as the 4381 ?  PR1ME 9000 series?o  < Prime was probably a hard competitor performance/price wise.  * I find it hard to believe that IBM was so.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 20:12:16 +0100y6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E0DF790.6060101@vajhoej.dk>s   JF Mezei wrote:h   > David Wade wrote:eF >>running the VMS Editor each character was echoed back to the user atG >>Application not OS level. So each time a user typed a character their N >>program needed  to be unswapped, and dispatched to, all so it could echo the >>character back to the user.l    M > Not quite. The terminal driver has a lot of smarts built into it. While theuK > driver does do the echoing, it is possible to code a QIO to complete only O > after X characters have been typed (for instance fill a line), or whenever anr$ > escape sequence has been entered.    He said "editor".n  4 Key strokes in a VMS editor are *not* echoed back by the terminal driver !n   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 14:29:29 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth/ Message-ID: <3E0C9C07.3EDB5E56@vl.videotron.ca>u   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:B > That's a snide remark.  You start out by pretending to wish thatA > VMS be made visible; then you infer that it's not fit for a netlC > because of security and user protection problems.  VMS was prettyo# > good at preventing both of these.G  M Just because it is good doesn't mean that it is invincible. Opening a machine L to the whole world of script kiddies etc means that you have to be much moreB careful compared to just letting serious folks access the machine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 22:25:48 GMTi' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>.& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E0E23BE.5D0298BF@yahoo.com>.   David Wade wrote:n2 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message > > Pete Fenelon wrote:cD > > > In alt.folklore.computers Arne Vajh?j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: > >a@ > > >>Actually I think the VAX 8650 was pretty fast in its days. > 	 > It was.s > L > > > Its day was about 2-3 years before it was introduced, in that case. ;) > >SB > > A lot of those was used for number chrunching at universities. > I > At this it was great. Unfortunatley in many cases they were not used as I > number crunchers more as general purpose interactive machines. And this J > tended to not show them at their best performance wise. For example whenF > running the VMS Editor each character was echoed back to the user atG > Application not OS level. So each time a user typed a character their N > program needed  to be unswapped, and dispatched to, all so it could echo theL > character back to the user. On a reasonable busy machibe this would result1 > in the dreaded "Type Behind" so loved by users.r  : I seem to recall that effect with some timesharing service: (TymShare?) back about 1970.  I believe they used PDP10s. : Sometimes it took 5 minutes to echo a char. back.  We were9 overloading the input with high speed 110 baud teletypes.o   We dumped them.e   -- o< Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. :    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>  USE worldnet address!   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 03:41:52 -0500( From: Da Beave <beave@bundy.vistech.net>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth4 Message-ID: <slrnb0qsj0.flr.beave@bundy.vistech.net>  H In article <20021226112208.16415.qmail@nym.alias.net>, Doc.Cypher wrote:E > On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) wrote:n7 >>In article <20021226100744.5951.qmail@nym.alias.net>,a8 >>Doc.Cypher  <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote: > E >>Fair enough--it must be that I'm hitting them at inopportune times.-) >>I'm able to get to their site fine now.  > L > I'm not going to search their Notes system, but ISTR that they did surviveM > Slashdotting, and had a lot of users logged in then. I'd guess that websiteBA > response probably slowed down so much that people got timeouts.   A 	The DeathRow cluster survived the /. thing just fine.  Actually,sA it floored me how well it handled it.   At points,  in our little'C cluster,  we'd see about 150 people logged in at one given time.   r@ I _knew_ that VMS was a "work horse",  but I was _amazed_ to seeF it stand up to that.    We run the cluster on pretty minimal hardware!  7 	I'm not in the same city as the DeathRow cluster,  butuB I was still able to get to the main webpage during /.'ing....  And& SSH'ed in to fix/correct somethings...  ; 	We did (later) have some problems with Apache.    I ended / up dropping Apache for WASD.    E  That was sort of a bummer. I really wanted to run different flavors l9 of webservers across the cluster (OSU,  Apache,  WASD).      > ; >>> FWIW, I count 22 interactive users currently logged in.    	thats pretty typical... >># >>That's certainly a positive sign.g > K > Well, a lot of those are just people using IRC, but there are people like31 > Jean-Loup Gailly making real use of the system.t  ? 	.. And I'm still not sure how I like standard users just usingpD the cluster for IRC...  Then again,  that's what lead to the port ofA EPIC for VMS!   I'm still trying to talk larne into releasing it!i  = 	..  And there are a lot of people beside Jean-Loup using theoG cluster..  Jean-Loup is the more "public" ones.   Doc has sent a couple0F of old DECie's my way... cool people..   We also have a lot of people G doing some wierd/fun stuff to...  I'm really happy how the cluster has 8 turned out.   :)  L > There are plans to add another node to the cluster - a PC running the simhK > emulator. Again, you'd need to dig through their Notes system to find outr2 > what underlying version of *ix they'll be using.  ? 	It's a P4 1.4 ghz box running Linux and SIMH.  Should be fun. mE I didn't have a chance to get it done while I was there.   Should be e up in a couple of weeks....   K > Anyone who is interested can log in with the DEMO account and take a look  > round.  @ 	Yes.   Do..   As well,  we just got the "GAMES" account online!  = 	On another note..   I'd like to see some way to "donate" to yD the vax6k guys as well.   I don't really use there machines,  but I E think it's really cool.   I'd probably "throw" $50 buck there way to r( make sure there power bill gets paid.     ' 	- Beave  (http://deathrow.vistech.net)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:14:21 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk># Subject: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCEL) Message-ID: <3E0E223D.7090707@vajhoej.dk>p   I had DCE 3.0 running fine.e  
 Now it fails:a   $ @sys$startup:dce$startup  I     *** System Management Procedure, DCE V3.0 ECO 1 for OpenVMS Alpha ***e  F ****************************    INFO     *****************************2 ***  DCE is configured to support 70 DCE Processes  1                ***  Starting all DCE daemons  ***t  < %REGISTER-I-SUMMARY  images examined: 1, dependent images: 0       Starting DCE servicesd  C     Starting RPC & Security Client Services daemon (DCE$DCED) . . .o= %RUN-S-PROC_ID, identification of created process is 20200181o, ***  Error - Process DCE$DCED is not running  G     Attempting a restart of Remote Procedure Call Services daemon . . .x  C     Starting RPC & Security Client Services daemon (DCE$DCED) . . .   E ****************************    ERROR    ****************************n= ***  Error starting RPC & Security Client Services (DCE$DCED)a ***  Image file @ "Sys$System:LoginOut.Exe/Input=Dce$Specific:[Var.dced]DCE$DCED.C om;" not found  8       ***  DCE System Management Procedure Complete  ***   The error message is bogus.   < I assume that DCE$SPECIFIC:[VAR.DCED]DCE$DCED.OUT;30 has the correct story:  < %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000000& 0000, PC=0000000000385F58, PS=0000001B  3    Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.i2      Signal arguments:   Number = 00000000000000052                          Name   = 000000000000000C2                                   00000000000000002                                   00000000000000002                                   0000000000385F582                                   000000000000001B        Register dump:aK      R0  = 0000000000000000  R1  = 0000000000000001  R2  = 00000000001B0FB0pK      R3  = 0000000000000000  R4  = 0000000000090028  R5  = 00000000000180D0tK      R6  = 00000000006D4818  R7  = 00000000006D4818  R8  = 0000000000000008OK      R9  = 000000007BB8E6F0  R10 = 0000000000000002  R11 = 0000000000000001aK      R12 = 00000000004D00A0  R13 = 000000007AFA4340  R14 = 0000000000000000mK      R15 = 000000007AFA39A0  R16 = 0000000000000000  R17 = 00000000146000000K      R18 = 0000000000000000  R19 = 0000000000000000  R20 = 000000007FFEFF98 K      R21 = 0000000000000000  R22 = 0000000000000000  R23 = 0000000000000000vK      R24 = 0000000000000000  R25 = 0000000000000001  R26 = 0000000000385EA0hK      R27 = 000000007BB8D7F0  R28 = 000000007C5C176C  R29 = 000000007AEB9510 K      SP  = 000000007AEB9510  PC  = 0000000000385F58  PS  = 100000000000001B 9    SYSTEM       job terminated at 28-DEC-2002 23:08:13.61y      Accounting information:F    Buffered I/O count:                209      Peak working set size: 	      9072-B    Direct I/O count:                   40      Peak virtual size: 	    183616B@    Page faults:                       545      Mounted volumes: 	         0sE    Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.18      Elapsed time:       0   00:00:00.33y  > My best guess is that I have installed some patches that broke DCE.  < Can any serious DCE users out there help me (I am only using DCE for Bridgeworks) ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:17:17 +0100u2 From: rossbach.dieter@t-online.de (Dieter Robach)9 Subject: Re: VMS PHP connect to local Oracle Rdb Databaseo/ Message-ID: <auig0t$j39$00$2@news.t-online.com>b  = In article <7eb9f7af.0211070603.63e4c19@posting.google.com>, s Franz.Lengel@EvoBus.com says...  >l
 >Thanks Alan,' >D? >Although unfortunately, your analysis is not very encouraging.a >oD >Is there a portable scripting or programming language which runs on. >VMS and NT and allows similar access to Rdb ?  / Do you intend to run this as a web application?a  	 I tested:m  3 Apache - php - odbc - attunity connect - rdb on VMSP# apache - php - odbc - mysql on NT.    J There some restrictions on the AC/Rdb-site, but all the modifications run 6 without any problems on the NT system. And it is fast.  P attunity connect comes with vms 7.3-1, but it supports only odbc and oci access P to Oracle8 databases. There is a Rdb-driver (which i used for my tests), but it M is extremely expensive, porting the application to Oracle8 would be cheaper. nF At the moment I'm setting up a SQL$NET (Oracle8-Client)- Sql/server - M rdb-environment for further tests, but I am still fighting against the setup n& procedure. (Any experience out there?)  O I made some tests with java, jdbc, rdb on VMS and java, jdbc. Mysql on NT. The oK main problem is the lousy performance on the vms system, esp. starting the  + application is very slow on older systems. h   Dieter   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:04:07 +0000 (UTC)o3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com>t@ Subject: Volatility of Argument Registers in EXEC mode R25,16-21/ Message-ID: <aujsum$f6t$1@venus.btinternet.com>s   Hi,t  L I am trying to move away from Homing my argument lists for that little extraG performance and so that I can cater for 64-bit arguments and addresses.eG Everything was coming along swimmingly in USER mode but when I tried tosH process my argument list in a User-Written System Service in EXEC mode IL encountered some odd behaviour. Typically the integer argument registers and) the AI appear to be Read-Once structures?-  D Instructions that appear to alter the contents of integer registers:   IFNOWRT R16,(R17),10$iF IFNOWRT #2,(R18),10$     ; Nothing but the PROBEW has now changed R18?  E Or this to check for arg_count and illegal floating-point arguments:-P   CMPB R25,#narg    :      :      :     : BICL3 #255,R25,R31  K If I move the registers to a scratch register (eg: R6) then R6 will happilyeK preserve its contents until I execute an instruction that explicitly altersaH it but if I have to do that then I might as well keep HOME_ARGS=TRUE :-(  D What am I doing wrong? Preserve list? Compiler qualifier? (I'm using4 /enable=quad and the preserv=allign,atomicity thing)   Regards Richard Maher   I (I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and all the best for the New Year)c  & PS. Why can't I use AI instead of R25?   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Dec 2002 13:25:45 -06003 From: bradhamilton@127.0.0.1 (Bradford J. Hamilton)mO Subject: [OT] Kermit vs. "commercial" emulators (ORe: is VMS really easy to useh3 Message-ID: <57nAvMqyrABd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <3E0CFE9F.D50FCCED@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:G >> that machine.  As I said, the current policy seems to be if it isn't G >> commercial we don't install it.  So that would pretty much eliminate ! >> everything on the Freeware CD.a > O > When I worked for a bank, I was able to have them agree to some exceptions torM > this. One such exception was kermit which I was able to convince was one ofhM > the more serious comms packages around, to which sources were available etcpP > etc. It replaced some really funky stuff that had come with their professionalM > PC software which had caused so many problems. Kermit worked right from then? > start and stayed problem-free and they were quite impressed. s > N > The fact that it was somehow associated with columbia university  instead ofK > just some "basement ware from a some script kiddie" did help convince theh. > powers of the acceptability of that sofware.  I The only "commercial" emulator that I have seen that approaches Kermit innI features and functionality is WRQ Reflection, and I'm willing to bet thatt" Reflection is much more expensive.  N I was working with our networking folks, our customers, and our vendor contactK for a POS terminal-emulation package called "RUMBA", just before I left my rF employer; we were going round and round trying to figure out why folksM telnetting into our VMS cluster with RUMBA were having problems connecting tonN the "surviving" cluster member during DR testing.  Kermit and Reflection neverK had issues connecting; RUMBA would "find" the "downed" box, and try to keepe' connecting to it via the cluster alias.   K BTW - I've gotten excellent support for Kermit whenever I've asked for it -gN usually within an hour or so, if not right away.  WRQ's support for Reflection was not as fast.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:02:21 +0100u6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>S Subject: Re: [OT] Kermit vs. "commercial" emulators (ORe: is VMS really easy to useh) Message-ID: <3E0E034D.7010202@vajhoej.dk>t   Bradford J. Hamilton wrote:o  K > The only "commercial" emulator that I have seen that approaches Kermit innK > features and functionality is WRQ Reflection, and I'm willing to bet that $ > Reflection is much more expensive.    # Reflection is an excellent product.   : Unfortunatetly there are a zero too much in their prices !    (it is 500-1000 USD per license)   Arne   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.719 ************************.i  K The story of the past year has been one of IB startupsҪ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ     Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    	Ҫ    
Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    
Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ     Ҫ    !Ҫ    "Ҫ    #Ҫ    $Ҫ    %Ҫ    &Ҫ    'Ҫ    (Ҫ    )Ҫ    *Ҫ    +Ҫ    ,Ҫ    -Ҫ    .Ҫ    /Ҫ    0Ҫ    1Ҫ    2Ҫ    3Ҫ    4Ҫ    5Ҫ    6Ҫ    7Ҫ    8Ҫ    9Ҫ    :Ҫ    ;Ҫ    <Ҫ    =Ҫ    >Ҫ    ?Ҫ    @Ҫ    AҪ    BҪ    CҪ    DҪ    EҪ    FҪ    GҪ    HҪ    IҪ    JҪ    KҪ    LҪ    MҪ    NҪ    OҪ    PҪ    QҪ    RҪ    SҪ    TҪ    UҪ    VҪ    WҪ    XҪ    YҪ    ZҪ    [Ҫ    \Ҫ    ]Ҫ    ^Ҫ    _Ҫ    `Ҫ    aҪ    bҪ    cҪ    dҪ    eҪ    fҪ    gҪ    hҪ    iҪ    jҪ    kҪ    lҪ    mҪ    nҪ    oҪ    pҪ    qҪ    rҪ    sҪ    tҪ    uҪ    vҪ    wҪ    xҪ    yҪ    zҪ    {Ҫ    |Ҫ    }Ҫ    ~Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    Ҫ    