1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 29 Dec 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 720       Contents:; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap) ; Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)  Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use? Re: is VMS really easy to use?2 Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands' Re: printing of string descriptors in C  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth  Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE; Re: Volatility of Argument Registers in EXEC mode R25,16-21   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:11:19 +0100 $ From: Michael Unger <unger@decus.de>D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)* Message-ID: <00A192CC.9F35B9C1.6@decus.de>  * "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:   > [...]  > < > Yes, when I surf to the following link (beware of wrap)... > P > http://web.archive.org/web/20010203183000/alphapowered.com/alpha_tech_presents > .html  > & > ...I can download PDF and PPT files.I > BTW, there is a PPT presentation on EV7 (Alpha 21364) which is what the  > original thread requested.  B Finally I managed to download the files I have been searching for.  C It turned out that the web site mentioned above does really strange < things (as mentioned in a previous posting) if JavaScript is9 disabled -- i.e., redirecting the browser to the original @ "AlphaPowered" web page which obviously doesn't exist any longerB instead of searching the own archive -- without any error message.    @ "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:  I > Be warned ... Revisionists can make clever use of robots.txt to control K > what the archive will serve up about their site's history, or less subtly  > request items be removed.  > H > If you want to keep these PDFs I would suggest taking your own copies.   Just done! (PDF and PPT files)   Michael    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:56:38 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> D Subject: Re: Broken Links on N. Rieck's Web Page (was: Re: Spamtrap)J Message-ID: <WWEP9.112226$F2h1.15765@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message2 news:lLIO9.3925$oW.782156@news20.bellglobal.com... > C > "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message 1 > news:20021226161807.7182.qmail@nym.alias.net...  > 
 > [ snip ] > D > > If you have bookmark URLs for any documents, you can try feeding	 them into @ > > the WayBack Machine at http://www.archive.org. I believe PDF documents will > > have been archived.  > >  > >  > > Doc. > > --> > > Time and money, the psychotropics of the business world... > > ~ VAXman https://vmsbox.cjb.net > C > Thanks for the tip. I found lots of cool PDF's (including the one  that > compares Alpha to IA64) here:  > F http://web.archive.org/web/20010203183000/alphapowered.com/alpha_tech_ presents > .html     3 I e-mailed this PDF to Carly for her enlightenment.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2002 00:32:22 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0212290032.7c93b4cc@posting.google.com>   i bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in message news:<aulnok$89csf$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>... ? > In article <b096a4ee.0212281507.4b9134fc@posting.google.com>, 3 > 	spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  > > 0 > > How would you define the factorial function? > >  > B > I can't define it.  Somebody beat me to it by hundreds of years.? > I was rather surprised to find out that after 40 some years I > > had never had a single math course that actually gave me the? > correct definition.  Maybe that's why it has become one of my ? > pet peeves.  Or maybe it's because I see the same inprecision  > in computer teaching as well.  >  > bill  E 1. You mean they never mentioned in any of those math courses that 0!  = 1? What were these courses?   F 2. If you're happy with using the "wrong" definition for evaluating 1!C where no product is involved, it is not much of a stretch at all to D use it for 0! by invoking the multiplicative identity as I explained in a previous post.   > 3. If we simply added 0! = 1 (and perhaps also 1! = 1) to thatE definition you quoted that you don't like, wouldn't that satisfy you? 8 And then you could offer that as the correct definition.  F 4. I'm sorry, but didn't you write "LOGICAL, SYMBOL, ALIAS, KNICKNAME,C in the end it's all the same"? Yet the factorial definition bothers  you? Please explain.   5. OK, how's this:     Factorial function:            0! = 1, -         n! = n * (n-1)!  for n an integer > 0   C It's easier to think of it as all the positive integers from 1 to n ? multiplied together, isn't it? But the second line of the above D definition includes the defining property of the factorial function.C The first line provides the normalization (the scale, if you wish). & Both ways of looking at it are useful.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman    ------------------------------    Date: 29 Dec 2002 06:42:10 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? 3 Message-ID: <ouXZidCmGG3s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3E0E73E7.B49867D3@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:   D > Actually, you raise an interesting point: when I got my first UNIXH > system back in 1986, I spent a good couple of months or more trying toH > figure out how to actually PRINT out the manual pages in hard copy, as- > opposed to having them scroll up my screen.   H And the result was certainly not optimized for both concentrated reading and online help.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 10:47:25 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ' Subject: Re: is VMS really easy to use? & Message-ID: <3E0F271D.DF3CA4F@fsi.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <3E0E73E7.B49867D3@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > F > > Actually, you raise an interesting point: when I got my first UNIXJ > > system back in 1986, I spent a good couple of months or more trying toJ > > figure out how to actually PRINT out the manual pages in hard copy, as/ > > opposed to having them scroll up my screen.  > J > And the result was certainly not optimized for both concentrated reading > and online help.  E Very true. It was, at best, alphabetized. That's about all the "help"  one got.  B There used to be a command to produce what was called a "permuted"H index. Most folks I talked to called it a "perverted" index. It was sort1 of a hard-copy version of the "apropos" database.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 10:58:41 -0600 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ; Subject: Re: Managing increasing number of foreign commands ' Message-ID: <3E0F29C1.DD3686B4@fsi.net>    Mark Berryman wrote: > [snip]I > Ok, that is one caveat which, I think, is easily resolved.  Any others?   B Dunno how much of the old thread you read, but at least one posterF expressed some reservations about having to deposit $.COM and/or $.EXEC files in each possible directory that might be included in a user's 	 DCL$PATH.   F My personal take is that if programs like EDT can return an error likeF "-RMS-F-WLD, invalid wildcard operation", DCL should be able to do theF same thing. Of course and as always, there should be a logical one canE set to restore the current wildcard behavior in case anything breaks.   
 ...IMHO...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 12:55:02 -0000 ! From: Z  <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> 0 Subject: Re: printing of string descriptors in C/ Message-ID: <v0r7p6n4qmba15@corp.supernews.com>   1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: C : Is there a magic trick to print a string descriptor with printf ?   P : right now, I have been adding a null to the end of descriptor strings and thenM : use %s in the printf control string, but this is tedious. Just wondering if  : there is an easier method.   Yes.    printf("%.*s", length, address);   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sun, 29 Dec 02 10:42:26 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <aumlg0$qk2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   5 In article <aukqgl$83lbf$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, 0    bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:5 >In article <aukotk$82bqm$1@id-40235.news.dfncis.de>, ( >	"David Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com> writes:3 >> "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message & >> news:3E0DE2C1.3080507@vajhoej.dk... >>> Pete Fenelon wrote:  >>> D >>> > In alt.folklore.computers Arne Vajh?j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:@ >>> >>Actually I think the VAX 8650 was pretty fast in its days. >>>  >>  
 >> It was. >>   >>>   >>> What were the alternatives ? >>>  >>  < >> Small IBM machines such as the 4381 ?  PR1ME 9000 series? >>   > ; >Funny you should mention this.  Back inthe days before the 9 >demise of Prime or DEC I worked with both.  Prime almost < >always beat the VAX on benchmarks (even when DEC fudged the= >numbers)  but DEC still almost always won the procurements.  . >Why??  Because DEC had much better marketing.C >Too bad DEC didn't see what bad marketing did to Prime and learned  >from their mistakes.   > Was it marketing or was it the support infrastructure that DEC= had in place?  A lot of customers counted support higher than = performance; they assumed they would get the performance when  they submitted an SPR.  C I never saw the "outside" of DEC; I was always under the impression > that our marketing was a joke and just barely tolerated by the customers.     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Sun, 29 Dec 02 10:46:25 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com & Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth+ Message-ID: <aumlne$qk2$2@bob.news.rcn.net>   ) In article <3E0DF584.5070705@vajhoej.dk>, :    Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: >David Wade wrote: > J >>>>Its day was about 2-3 years before it was introduced, in that case. ;) >  > A >>>A lot of those was used for number chrunching at universities.  >>  J >> At this it was great. Unfortunatley in many cases they were not used asJ >> number crunchers more as general purpose interactive machines. And thisK >> tended to not show them at their best performance wise. For example when G >> running the VMS Editor each character was echoed back to the user at H >> Application not OS level. So each time a user typed a character theirL >> program needed  to be unswapped, and dispatched to, all so it could echo  the G >> character back to the user. On a reasonable busy machibe this would   result2 >> in the dreaded "Type Behind" so loved by users. >  >  >????  > ; >What does that have to do with the speed of the hardware ?   < Everything.  It isn't the speed of the hardware that counts;= it's the "speed" of the user getting his/her work done.  IOW, , the speed perceived is a subjective metric.   6 Why do you think VMS caused the "VAX sucks" rumor?  It! was slow when a user typed at it.    > ? >All modern OS's echo characters back at the application level.   ) Then it's not the OS doing the echoing.      /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:06:45 -0000 $ From: "David Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth4 Message-ID: <aumogm$8dq0r$1@ID-40235.news.dfncis.de>  0 "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message# news:3E0DF584.5070705@vajhoej.dk...  > David Wade wrote:  > K > >>>Its day was about 2-3 years before it was introduced, in that case. ;)  >  > B > >>A lot of those was used for number chrunching at universities. > > K > > At this it was great. Unfortunatley in many cases they were not used as K > > number crunchers more as general purpose interactive machines. And this L > > tended to not show them at their best performance wise. For example whenH > > running the VMS Editor each character was echoed back to the user atI > > Application not OS level. So each time a user typed a character their L > > program needed  to be unswapped, and dispatched to, all so it could echo the G > > character back to the user. On a reasonable busy machibe this would  result3 > > in the dreaded "Type Behind" so loved by users.  >  >  > ???? > < > What does that have to do with the speed of the hardware ? > @ > All modern OS's echo characters back at the application level. >    They do indeed.   B > I have not tried a terminal & editor doing otherwise in 15 years' > (never worked in an IBM environment).  >   J Almost all large IBM machines used (and still do use) 3270 displays. TheseL handle a large amount of editing in the terminal controller. The result is a6 large reduction in CP load under interactive workload.    > >>What were the alternatives ? > > = > > Small IBM machines such as the 4381 ?  PR1ME 9000 series?  > > > Prime was probably a hard competitor performance/price wise. > , > I find it hard to believe that IBM was so. >   D In Educational Markets where they offered a large discount they wereJ competitive. In the U.K. I saw many Tender Documents which focused heavilyB on the CPU load generated by on-line editing. IBM often won these.     > Arne >    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Dec 2002 13:02:59 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth5 Message-ID: <aumrq3$8bv42$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>   + In article <aumlg0$qk2$1@bob.news.rcn.net>,  	jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:7 > In article <aukqgl$83lbf$1@ID-135708.news.dfncis.de>, 2 >    bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:6 >>In article <aukotk$82bqm$1@id-40235.news.dfncis.de>,) >>	"David Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com> writes: 4 >>> "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message' >>> news:3E0DE2C1.3080507@vajhoej.dk...  >>>> Pete Fenelon wrote: >>>>E >>>> > In alt.folklore.computers Arne Vajh?j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: A >>>> >>Actually I think the VAX 8650 was pretty fast in its days.  >>>> >>>  >>> It was.  >>>  >>>>! >>>> What were the alternatives ?  >>>> >>> = >>> Small IBM machines such as the 4381 ?  PR1ME 9000 series?  >>>  >>< >>Funny you should mention this.  Back inthe days before the: >>demise of Prime or DEC I worked with both.  Prime almost= >>always beat the VAX on benchmarks (even when DEC fudged the > >>numbers)  but DEC still almost always won the procurements. / >>Why??  Because DEC had much better marketing. D >>Too bad DEC didn't see what bad marketing did to Prime and learned >>from their mistakes. > @ > Was it marketing or was it the support infrastructure that DEC? > had in place?  A lot of customers counted support higher than ? > performance; they assumed they would get the performance when  > they submitted an SPR. > E > I never saw the "outside" of DEC; I was always under the impression @ > that our marketing was a joke and just barely tolerated by the > customers.   >   ; Even for sites that were not already DEC customers the name 9 was known well enough that we ran into statements like,"I < don't care which one wins the procurement as long as it says< VAX on the front."  And this was in a case where DEC had bid: a machine that had not even been made yet.  They countered; several boxes of Prime benchmark results with a letter that : stated, :when the machine actually goes into production it9 will be this fast."  DEC won that particualr procurement,    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 14:53:06 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth) Message-ID: <3E0EFE42.5010602@vajhoej.dk>    jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  + > In article <3E0DF584.5070705@vajhoej.dk>, < >    Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: >>David Wade wrote: K >>>>>Its day was about 2-3 years before it was introduced, in that case. ;)     B >>>>A lot of those was used for number chrunching at universities.    J >>>At this it was great. Unfortunatley in many cases they were not used asJ >>>number crunchers more as general purpose interactive machines. And thisK >>>tended to not show them at their best performance wise. For example when G >>>running the VMS Editor each character was echoed back to the user at H >>>Application not OS level. So each time a user typed a character theirO >>>program needed  to be unswapped, and dispatched to, all so it could echo the M >>>character back to the user. On a reasonable busy machibe this would result 2 >>>in the dreaded "Type Behind" so loved by users.     >>???? >>< >>What does that have to do with the speed of the hardware ?    > > Everything.  It isn't the speed of the hardware that counts;? > it's the "speed" of the user getting his/her work done.  IOW, . > the speed perceived is a subjective metric.   3 It may mean a lot for the subjective impression for  the computer ignorant.  6 But as several posts here has explained then it really: a matter about VMS editor design and communication design.  7 Objectively it has nothing to do with the VAX hardware.    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 29 Dec 2002 15:50:20 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth- Message-ID: <aun5js$7u1@web.eng.baileynm.com>   ) In article <3E0EFE42.5010602@vajhoej.dk>, 8 Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=  <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:8 > But as several posts here has explained then it really< > a matter about VMS editor design and communication design. > 9 > Objectively it has nothing to do with the VAX hardware.   C Well, VMS was also a fairly "heavy" OS... but if you eliminated the D OS differences the VAX was still not that impressive. At Berkeley weB had both 11/70s and 11/780s running BSD UNIX, and the 11/70s could@ handle about twice as many users even though they had less core.   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Dec 2002 15:46:02 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)& Subject: Re: vax6k.openecs.org rebirth- Message-ID: <aun5bq$7sr@web.eng.baileynm.com>   ) In article <3E0DE2C1.3080507@vajhoej.dk>, 8 Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=  <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:> > >>Actually I think the VAX 8650 was pretty fast in its days.  J > > Its day was about 2-3 years before it was introduced, in that case. ;)  @ > A lot of those was used for number chrunching at universities. >  > What were the alternatives ?  > Gould if they were still in the game at that point, PR1ME, ...   --  O I've seen things you people can't imagine. Chimneysweeps on fire over the roofs O of London. I've watched kite-strings glitter in the sun at Hyde Park Gate.  All L these things will be lost in time, like chalk-paintings in the rain.   `-_-'K Time for your nap.  | Peter da Silva | Har du kramat din varg, idag?    'U`    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 11:59:51 +0100 / From: "Peter Flunger" <p-i-b@nospam.gmxspam.at> ' Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE 0 Message-ID: <aumkj8$76a$1@newsreader1.netway.at>  % "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote  > I had DCE 3.0 running fine.  >  > Now it fails:  > <...> > > I assume that DCE$SPECIFIC:[VAR.DCED]DCE$DCED.OUT;30 has the > correct story: > = > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  > address=000000000000( > 0000, PC=0000000000385F58, PS=0000001B > 5 >    Improperly handled condition, image exit forced. 4 >      Signal arguments:   Number = 00000000000000054 >                          Name   = 000000000000000C4 >                                   00000000000000004 >                                   00000000000000004 >                                   0000000000385F584 >                                   000000000000001B > G I was had a very similar error with DCE on an Alpha. I can only vaguely H remember what the reason was, but i think one of the files that DCE uses had a broken structure. 4 Look for file DCE$SPECIFIC:[VAR.DCED]EP.DB 8 ( where8 DCE$SPECIFIC normally points to SYS$SPECIFIC:[DCELOCAL.]F Maybe deleting that file and reinitialising DCE may solve your problem  C And: That is what you get, when you use MicroJunk Windoze Software. F It doesn't even give you a clue whats wrong, although there are things like exception handlers on VMS.   C We are using DCOM in several installations @ customers sites and it  drives me completely crazy...  Hope that helps,
 regards Peter    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:10:19 +0100 6 From: Arne =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>' Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1, patches and DCE ) Message-ID: <3E0F1E6B.7070803@vajhoej.dk>    Peter Flunger wrote:  ' > "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote  >>I had DCE 3.0 running fine.  >> >>Now it fails:  >><...> > >>I assume that DCE$SPECIFIC:[VAR.DCED]DCE$DCED.OUT;30 has the >>correct story: >>= >>%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual < >>address=0000000000000000, PC=0000000000385F58, PS=0000001B    I > I was had a very similar error with DCE on an Alpha. I can only vaguely J > remember what the reason was, but i think one of the files that DCE uses > had a broken structure. 6 > Look for file DCE$SPECIFIC:[VAR.DCED]EP.DB 8 ( where: > DCE$SPECIFIC normally points to SYS$SPECIFIC:[DCELOCAL.]H > Maybe deleting that file and reinitialising DCE may solve your problem    % Reconfiguring DCE solved the problem.    Thanks for your help.   # (and I still do not understand DCE)   E > And: That is what you get, when you use MicroJunk Windoze Software. H > It doesn't even give you a clue whats wrong, although there are things! > like exception handlers on VMS.   % I thougth DCE was Unix not Windows ??    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:37:07 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGD Subject: Re: Volatility of Argument Registers in EXEC mode R25,16-210 Message-ID: <00A191C4.049B989B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <aujsum$f6t$1@venus.btinternet.com>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  >Hi, > M >I am trying to move away from Homing my argument lists for that little extra H >performance and so that I can cater for 64-bit arguments and addresses.H >Everything was coming along swimmingly in USER mode but when I tried toI >process my argument list in a User-Written System Service in EXEC mode I M >encountered some odd behaviour. Typically the integer argument registers and * >the AI appear to be Read-Once structures? > E >Instructions that appear to alter the contents of integer registers:  >  >IFNOWRT R16,(R17),10$G >IFNOWRT #2,(R18),10$     ; Nothing but the PROBEW has now changed R18?  > F >Or this to check for arg_count and illegal floating-point arguments:- >  >CMPB R25,#narg  >   :      :      :     :  >BICL3 #255,R25,R31  > L >If I move the registers to a scratch register (eg: R6) then R6 will happilyL >preserve its contents until I execute an instruction that explicitly altersI >it but if I have to do that then I might as well keep HOME_ARGS=TRUE :-(   D I don't know what is was that you were doing but you can't expect toC pass data to an inner mode via registers.  The dispatcher will step B all over many registers on its way to handing control to your code at an inner mode.     ' >PS. Why can't I use AI instead of R25?   ' You can if you use the proper language.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.720 ************************