0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 08 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 75      Contents: Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro  Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro  Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro $ Advanced Server as a "client" ?  :>). Re: Archive 2150S (and/was: Zip disks and VMS) Re: BEA MessageQ Re: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ) RE: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ)! Re: Capellas just doesn't get it! ! Re: Capellas just doesn't get it! ! Re: Capellas just doesn't get it! & Re: Clients & Connections on Pathworks* Re: compaq logo on DECwindows login screen Re: Creating a symbiont  Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris  Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris  Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris  Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris  Re: FREEWARE 5.0 Re: Galaxy help!!!! 1 Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.) $ Re: Help with Performance Monitoring$ Re: Help with Performance MonitoringP Re: HP Sets March 19 for Special Meeting of Shareowners to Vote on Compaq Merger* In stock: ES40 Model 2 USD7895 VMS Ready ! Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS # Re: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS # Re: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS  Re: installing cobol/ Re: Load Balancing DNA across 2*2MBit WAN links 0 Re: Microsoft will stop "innovating" for a month Re: Microsoft's financials Re: Microsoft's financials Re: Microsoft's financials News servers Re: Problem with smtp.P Re: problems with VMS server not recognizing boot clients after taking it off fd Re: Purveyor runs VMS Perl!  Re: Purveyor runs VMS Perl!  Re: Queue & stock quandary Re: Queue & stock quandary Re: Queue & stock quandary" SDA accepting command line args...& Re: SDA accepting command line args... Re: setting the record straight 1 Stopping the Queue Manager and Starting a new one 5 Re: Stopping the Queue Manager and Starting a new one 5 Re: Stopping the Queue Manager and Starting a new one  The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: There must be a way  Re: V5 Freeware - DIBOL , Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign" Re: Whatever happened to Spiralog?" Re: Whatever happened to Spiralog?
 who uses vms?  Re: who uses vms?  Re: who uses vms? P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:49:44 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro) Message-ID: <3C62E868.FA28AB4E@gtech.com>    Tom Linden wrote: F > This macro from descrip.h is generating a diagnostic when compiling. > . >   static $DESCRIPTOR (prod_owner, 'KEDNOS');% > ..................................^ M > %CC-W-CHAROVERFL, A character constant value requires more than sizeof(int)  > bytes of storage.    Quotes !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:52:39 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro) Message-ID: <3C62E917.73604968@gtech.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Tom Linden wrote:  > > H > > This macro from descrip.h is generating a diagnostic when compiling. > > 0 > >   static $DESCRIPTOR (prod_owner, 'KEDNOS');' > > ..................................^ O > > %CC-W-CHAROVERFL, A character constant value requires more than sizeof(int)  > > bytes of storage.  > # > You're going to hate yourself....  > 7 > you need   static $DESCRIPTOR (prod_owner, "KEDNOS");  > H > $DESCRIPTOR expects a pointer to a string, not an array of characters.  , Actually "KEDNOS" is an array of characters.  F 'KEDNOS' is not an array of characters. It is illegal lexical element.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:22:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro, Message-ID: <3C62EFF6.8CBF559C@videotron.ca>   Arne Vajhj wrote:. > Actually "KEDNOS" is an array of characters.  / Nop, it is a pointer to an array of characters.     H > 'KEDNOS' is not an array of characters. It is illegal lexical element.   Try the following:   #include <stdio.h> main() {  long x = 'KEDN' ; 8 printf("Value of X is : %ld  or in hex: %lx )\n", x,x ); }   I you will find that 'KEDN' yields a 4 byte value (long int), not an array. J Replace 'KEDN' with 'ABCD' and it becomes very obvious in the hex display.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2002 15:41:13 -0800 0 From: fabio.becherini@ufrgs.br (Fabio Becherini)- Subject: Advanced Server as a "client" ?  :>) = Message-ID: <70cf0643.0202071541.1e9ec7e9@posting.google.com>    Hi !   Our environment is:   .   A AlphaServer 800 5/500 running OpenVMS V7.2>   with DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A$   & Advanced Server V7.2 for OpenVMS  / We have about 25000 users with theirs homedirs, - accessing e-mail via logging in VMS, via POP3  and via Webmail (WASD+yahmail).   . Now we have about 45Gb disks and needing more,& but we have no $ cash to buy them :(((  ) As we have some NT Servers + 2000 Servers ( with very large disks, somebody told us:  =   - "It's easy, install your Advanced Server V7.2 for OpenVMS 6     (yes, we have it "now" installed), act as a client0     for yours NT & 2000 servers, and yours users.     can have theirs homedirs in these machines.     as if the homedirs are in your VMS boxes."   Something like this:  .           OpenVMS box           NT or 2000 box0           ------------          ----------------0           user Scully    >>>    Scully's homedir-           logged on             home:[scully]            via Telnet,            POP or Webmail  1 Yes, I have read all the Advanced Server manuals, * and I've concluded that it's impossible :(   Am I wrong ?   Any ideas ?   
 Best regards,    Fabio.Becherini@ufrgs.br OpenVMS System Administrator  (Yes, I will love VMS forever :)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:16:36 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 7 Subject: Re: Archive 2150S (and/was: Zip disks and VMS) & Message-ID: <3C634473.B18C3A1@fsi.net>   Patrick Young wrote: > [snip]J > David, in your URL concerning ZIP drives you have a modified/modify yourI > own section - any ideas on what to do with "non - "DEC"" SCSI tapes ???   G A search of "DejaGoogle" for "ARWE" led me to an old post from Wolfgang A Moeller(sic?). Once upon many moons ago, he wrote a .COM file for F OpenVMS-VAX V5.5-2 that would use PATCH to create a modified DKDRIVER.H When you MOUNT (I guess) a SCSI disk, the modified driver would convinceF the device to turn off ARWE and ARRE so the standard issue VMS drivers/ don't choke. Use it ONCE to modify each device.   ( Unfortunately, it's for VAX V5.5-2 only.  F Not sure if it'll do anything for SCSI QIC drives. Those sure would beE great, affordable (no, I won't say it!) alternatives to DLTs for some 
 folks, IMHO.     *SIGH*   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:36:51 -0600 ) From: Bruce Stephens <hbs@nospam.bea.com>  Subject: Re: BEA MessageQ . Message-ID: <3C62F372.166E4125@nospam.bea.com>  B There are many, and in every major sector: manufacturing, telecom, transportation, etc.  : Simply the fastest, most reliable messaging system around.    
 PAMS Forever!  Bruce      Jakob Erber wrote:   > Hello, > E > I'd like to know, who is using this product and with what succcess.  >  > best regards >  > Jakob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:47:30 +0100, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>' Subject: Re: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ) * Message-ID: <a3up53$reb$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0202070954.7e5667ca@posting.google.com... 9 > "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> wrote in message 9 news:<3c62727e$0$199$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>... 3 > > "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> wrote in message # > > news:3c6261a7$1@news.post.ch...  > > > Hello, > > > I > > > I'd like to know, who is using this product and with what succcess.  > > >  > > > best regards > > >  > > > Jakob  > > H > > I know very little about MessageQ itself, but I know of a site where they > > use it. F > > The most important problem they have is that MessageQ doesn't like DECnet > > over IP with DECnet-Plus.  > > - > > Let me know if you want more information.  > > 
 > > Bart Zorn  > F > it would work w/tcpwares phase IV over IP as this is true decnet, no! > pseudo stuff w/pwip drivers ...   I I have no doubt about that. However, buying TCPware for over 800 nodes is D probably a little bit too much! Not to mention the amount of work to reconfigure all of them!  	 Bart Zorn    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:54:11 -08001 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com> ' Subject: RE: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ) O Message-ID: <025766C9BBC5D511A4ED00B0D0F08C23163205@ny_exchange1.maintech1.com>   ? We also make heavy use of it.  Extremely reliable and powerful.    Mike Farrell   -----Original Message-----7 From: arturo saavedra [mailto:arturo.saavedra@wcom.com] ) Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:45 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' Subject: RE: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ)     4 We use it extensively .. pretty steady and reliable.   art    -----Original Message-----/ From: Jan-Erik S=F6derholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com] ) Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:19 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ' Subject: Re: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ)     > Not personaly, but I know many sites and with great success... Anything specificaly ?   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.      Jakob Erber wrote: >  > Hello, > E > I'd like to know, who is using this product and with what succcess.  >  > best regards >  > Jakob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:37:55 +01000 From: "Philip Lewis" <FerrariTR512m@hotmail.com>* Subject: Re: Capellas just doesn't get it!- Message-ID: <a3ul2s$15u1$1@news.cybercity.dk>   G Is that irony or sarcasm, I am having difficulty distinguishing of late   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C62B198.85DB3132@videotron.ca... > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > B > > This was on the Inquirer ... this proves Capellas is doomed toB > > fail as he just doesn't understand that the high end mainframe( > > era is the future and pc's are dead! > J > And you fail to understand that the future in with Windows and "industryJ > standard" (aka:Intel) machines.  Curly and Carly are convinced that this isK > the future and are therefore positioning their companies accordingly. And  theyL > have the support of their boards. It is absolutely impossible that so manyD > people in such high positions could make such a strategic mistake,
 therefore, > they must be right.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:29:17 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> * Subject: Re: Capellas just doesn't get it!5 Message-ID: <3C62C77D.29EF43D7@swissonline.delete.ch>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  >  ...  > A > "The fact is that the PC business is a strategic business, with F > significant opportunities for growth and profitability. I'm proud of< > the progress we've made in our PC business under difficultG > circumstances. I'm proud of the outstanding record of innovation that G > our PC team continues to build. And I'm proud that this will continue 6 > to be a strategic business in the combined company."  F The guy has been CEO for 3 years and on 2 of those years, 1999 & 2001,B PCs lost $386 million and $587 million respectively.  In 2000 theyA managed to make a mere $145 million on costs of over $20 billion.   = How many more chances does he need to make PCs profitable ???   E Proud that it will be a strategic business ??  Oh really ??  More big H losses ?  More of the same financial support from the Enterprise systems ??  D Sorry, for a moment I forgot that according to Walter Hewlett it was5 Capellas who went to HP and said "Please acquire us."        D > * Expand our enterprise capabilities across products, software andF > solutions. HP's strength in data center UNIX and management softwareF > together with our strengths in industry standard servers, enterpriseA > storage and high performance computing will give us the richest ' > enterprise portfolio in the industry.    Um, Mike ???  Where's VMS ????   H > * Improve the economics of the PC business while driving innovation in, > new markets and new categories of devices.  G It's not easy to see how the economics could be made worse.  Innovation H ?  Competitors are rapidly challenging iPaq (which by the way failed bigF time at the WEF in New York, see "PC unreliability rears its ugly head again" by Dave Gilmor at@ http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg020602.htm)  F The whole concept of convergence continues to look dumb.  I like my CDE player to be a CD player and not part of my PC, ditto my television.  H Convergence looks like forcing everyone in the household to have a PC so< they can watch TV or play music or whatever ...  No thanks !     D > This merger is about the future of computing - not the past. It isG > about building on the complementary strengths of two great companies. C > It is about industry leadership. It is about creating significant C > value for customers based on a rich portfolio of technology and a ( > clear understanding of customer needs.    D Graef Crystal - well-respected commentator on US-executive pay - has some interesting thoughts at     http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Graef%20Crystal&touch=1&s1=crystal&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s=APGBBCRXfSGV3bGV0   H  where he talks about the retention packages to HP and Compaq personnel.  D - Hewlett-Packard employees will receive a total of $337 million and: Compaq has promised $242 million of payments to employees.  B - Looking at the performance of the two CEOs involved, though, theC proposed merger seems to be a union of incompetents. Both got their G positions in July 1999, and both performed terribly between their start F dates and last Friday.  Fiorina delivered a negative 49 percent returnG for shareholders during her tenure. The return on the Nasdaq-100 index, E a benchmark for companies similar to Hewlett-Packard, was negative 33 C percent during the period. For the Standard & Poor's 500 Index, the H comparable figure was negative 18 percent. Capellas did even worse, withD a negative 53 percent return. The decline compares   with returns ofF negative 30 percent for the Nasdaq-100 and negative 16 percent for the	 S&P 500.    B - In earlier articles about the two, I noted the emphasis in their? employment agreements on shares of free stock, rather than more E traditional grants of stock options.  After analyzing the numbers and D considering that free shares are a lot safer than a larger number ofG option shares, I predicted that the two executives weren't very bullish E about their prospects for success.  What has happened since they took > their jobs shows that they had a realistic impression of theirH abilities. It's little wonder that they decided to go the route of opera7 singers and pay people to cheer their plan to combine.      H Is Compaq Head Office really in Houston or do we simply contact them viaF Johnson Space Centre and NASA Mission Control ?   They seem so far out; of touch with reality that they might be on another planet.      John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:24:52 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> * Subject: Re: Capellas just doesn't get it!, Message-ID: <3C62E269.17366DD2@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:H > The guy has been CEO for 3 years and on 2 of those years, 1999 & 2001,D > PCs lost $386 million and $587 million respectively.  In 2000 theyC > managed to make a mere $145 million on costs of over $20 billion.   M Capellas inherited a Compaq screwed up by Pfeiffer. Remember that Pfeifer was J fired. So Pfeiffer's decision to waste money buying a sick Digital was notL well seen by the board.  Consequently, it is only normal that Capellas wouldL have been given a mandate by Rosen to concentrate on the wintel business and+ minimise the disruptions caused by Digital.D  N Digital is gone. Don't expect it to come back. If Capellas is advised that theJ old Digital legacy and prorietary  products don't have much of a long termL growth outlook , then it is only natural for Capellas to enjoy their currentM profits while they last but not bet the company on those and focus instead oniN the areas where there is potential for growth (aka: industry standard and open wintel products).d  L Capellas failed to stop Compaq's reliance on the old Digital legacy productsN and failed in making the PC business profitable. So the solution was to donateB the company to someone who might be able to do something about it.  H Interesting how Palmer was unable to fix Digital and it was Pfeiffer whoK guided him for the last 3 years on what to do. Similarly, it is interestingkL that Carly is the one who would have given Curly the power to kill Alpha and9 reduce Compaq's reliance on the old Digital legacy stuff.p  I In the past, VMS and Alpha  stood in their own little independant kingdom I generating profits that Compaq couldn't do without. But with the death ofaL Alpha, the tables turned. Instead of Compaq depending on the VMS-ALPHA groupM for survival, VMS will now depend on Compaq's core business to produce wintelfK hardware on which VMS can run. This will make the wintel business look muchl5 better and strenghten Compaq's position against Dell.a  L So HP has managed to kill off the last remnants of the Digital kingdom so itJ will be much easier to integrate what is left of Compaq into HP because HPE won't have any division of Compaq that is powerful enough to keep anydG independance.  Carly will clearly be in power and will have no problemsn implementing what she wants.  ? > How many more chances does he need to make PCs profitable ???i  R None. Remember that Capellas has handed the torch to Carly. Not a problem anymore.    > Um, Mike ???  Where's VMS ????  M Acording to VMS engineers, VMS is perfectly safe. No need to worry. With thisFN level of confidence, there is no need to mention VMS. So we shouldn't draw anyK conclusions by the fact that VMS is consistently omitted from HP and CompaqeH speeches.  Besides, VMS will be running on industry standard (aka Intel)" hardware, so why should we worry ?  B > http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/opinion/dgillmor/dg020602.htm)  L Bill Gates has promised that his software would be reliable. Carly and Curly# have no choice but to believe that.E  H > The whole concept of convergence continues to look dumb.  I like my CDF > player to be a CD player and not part of my PC, ditto my television.J > Convergence looks like forcing everyone in the household to have a PC so> > they can watch TV or play music or whatever ...  No thanks !  L Convergence is occuring at the other end. Microsoft/Gates are buying lots ofI stuff behind the scenes.  When Microsoft buys a chunk of a cable company,jG guess what influence Microsoft gets when that cable company chooses the N set-top boxes that will be used ? Hotmail, MS-NBC etc and the list goes on andA on. AOL is doing the same. And in Canada, Bell is doing the same.l    J > Is Compaq Head Office really in Houston or do we simply contact them viaH > Johnson Space Centre and NASA Mission Control ?   They seem so far out= > of touch with reality that they might be on another planet.o  M From their point of view, we are the ones who are out of touch. They are paid,L more than me, so obviously they know more than I do. My opinion is thereforeO wrong and they are right. Pointless to argue. Let them do what they want to do.n   Digital is dead. Live with it.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2002 23:27:38 GMTe5 From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess)e/ Subject: Re: Clients & Connections on PathworksT. Message-ID: <a3v2ha$6dl$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  M In a previous article, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes:o >iE >The way to tell how many sessions are really in use is using NBSHOW:r >o$ >$ @sys$manager:pwrk$define_commands >n >$ nbshow knbstatus  >Adapter status for xxxxx on* >ID: AA  00  04  00  5F  C5   Version  3.0# >Time up: 7 days 6 hours 25 minutes B >Packets sent:                  0        CRC errors:             0B >Packets received:              0        Alignment errors:       0B >Retransmitted packets:         0        Collisions:             0B >Resources exhausted:           0        Aborted transmissions:  0@ >Ncbs:      Free  : 65535 of 65535;  maximum configurable: 65535M >Sessions:  In use:   126 of   175;  maximum configurable:   175 <<<------***n >Adapter packet size:  1497  >Local name table (15 names):i >... >L >Note the line:f >OB >  Sessions:  In use:   126 of   175;  maximum configurable:   175 >hK >That's the number you want. This usually is higher than the count reported  >by "admin show sessions". >  >--+H >-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison3 >--                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu  e   That is very interesting to me. @ We have licenses for 350, but "nbshow knbstatus" as above shows   ? Sessions:  In use:   286 of   325;  maximum configurable:   325t  8 Do you know what factors limit the maximum configurable?   Ian Burgess  University of Queensland I.Burgess[at]its.uq.edu.au www.its.uq.edu.auS   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:24:27 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>3 Subject: Re: compaq logo on DECwindows login screenr0 Message-ID: <3C62D368.9A384825@blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:t   O > How about bugs bunny ? Or perhaps some of the friendly hedgehogs used on somen1 > early New Zealand Telecom prepard phone cards ?o  ) How about a decent VMS marketing slogan. i -- h Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  m  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of -! my employers or service provider.:   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:27:03 GMTR1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>s  Subject: Re: Creating a symbiont' Message-ID: <3C6346E5.69ED5E93@fsi.net>i   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:s > e > In article <a3tmb20303h@drn.newsguy.com>, babiarz at endor.com <babiarz_member@newsguy.com> writes: : > > I would like to create a symbiont for alpha vms 7.2-1.B > > This symbiont would take an entry from the que and process theC > > file. This would not be printing a job, only used for filtering 0 > > emails, and sent the entry to another queue. > >k: > > Where do I look in the manuals for writing a symboint? > I > For this particular application, you might consider a piece of softwareoG > known as EXECSYMB.  It is a symbiont that lets you execute a piece ofe, > DCL code to process each job in the queue. > & > This kind of thing is a perfect fit.   Like he said. Take a look at:s  = http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?EXECSYMB    --   David J. Dachteraw dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 08:12:54 -0500o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)( Subject: Re: Dxterm displayed on SolarisJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0702020812550001@1cust31.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  : In article <3C61EA66.BDBA0FEF@peoplepc.com>, Jack Patteeuw  <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> wrote:   >Jack Patteeuw wrote:r >>  G >> Now the problem is the (&*^%$#@!%@# Sun keyboard !  How do I get theaG >> DECterm process to use a different keyboard map than the rest of the-' >> windows on the Solaris CDE desktop ?+ >0L >The answer of course is to use xev to find the key scan code for all of theN >keys on the numeric keypad for a particular type of keyboard and then xmodmapO >to get the proper keycode sent.  The important thing is that all windows on aneL >X display server, regardless of what X host client they originate from, useJ >the same same keymap.  Or to say it another way, the last xmodmap wins !!  I It is also possible to remap terminal characteristics from the VMS side. l@ If you look at SYS$SYSTEM:SMGTERMS.TXT, you can see how terminal@ characteristics are defined for standard DEC terminals.  SimilarF characteristics can be defined by the VMS system manager for "foreign" terminals.  Then a user can do  # $ SET TERMINAL/DEVICE_TYPE=whatevera* and VMS applications will behave properly.  D This stuff is documented in the SMG$ section of the Run Time Library
 manual, IIRC.   6 I've never done this, but it looks like a useful tool.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:57:15 -00003 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>o( Subject: Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris. Message-ID: <a3upm1$ibq$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message-D news:rdeininger-0702020812550001@1cust31.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...< > In article <3C61EA66.BDBA0FEF@peoplepc.com>, Jack Patteeuw" > <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com> wrote: >A > >Jack Patteeuw wrote:e > >>I > >> Now the problem is the (&*^%$#@!%@# Sun keyboard !  How do I get the I > >> DECterm process to use a different keyboard map than the rest of thee) > >> windows on the Solaris CDE desktop ?t > >rJ > >The answer of course is to use xev to find the key scan code for all of thesH > >keys on the numeric keypad for a particular type of keyboard and then xmodmaprK > >to get the proper keycode sent.  The important thing is that all windowsc on aneJ > >X display server, regardless of what X host client they originate from, use:L > >the same same keymap.  Or to say it another way, the last xmodmap wins !! >rJ > It is also possible to remap terminal characteristics from the VMS side.B > If you look at SYS$SYSTEM:SMGTERMS.TXT, you can see how terminalB > characteristics are defined for standard DEC terminals.  SimilarH > characteristics can be defined by the VMS system manager for "foreign"  > terminals.  Then a user can do% > $ SET TERMINAL/DEVICE_TYPE=whatever , > and VMS applications will behave properly.  K Of some use, but you can't do things like make ^H be ^?, can you? And don'tiG let me go into the time I tried to add Wyse 30-something (38?) terminalmL support to SMG. [Why? So I could use ANU News from the Wyse terminals hookedJ up to the library catalogue system (and mail, etc)] Not impossible but not for the fainthearted...s  F Not to mention that DECforms applications will need a recompile to use newly-defined terminals....s  H The xterm script I posted neatly solves most of the problems, because itL remaps your keys, but _only for that xterm_. So other xterms, not started byG the script, retain their usual key mappings (as do other applications).s  I For all I know, you might be able to do a similar thing to DECterm. Don't  know; never tried.   -Malcolm   > F > This stuff is documented in the SMG$ section of the Run Time Library > manual, IIRC.  >a8 > I've never done this, but it looks like a useful tool.  I Fairly useful, as long as it can send DEL and its inverse/bold/etc. videoe: functions don't consume a character space (like the Wyse).  I The big problem I found with the Wyse terminals ... well, I never figuredtF out what the problem was, but I think it was a timing thing (It needed4 null-character padding). Crock of s**t, basically ;)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:05:26 -0500 - From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>n( Subject: Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris, Message-ID: <3C632456.AED135D9@peoplepc.com>   Jack Patteeuw wrote:  M > The answer of course is to use xev to find the key scan code for all of the$H > keys on the numeric keypad for a particular type of keyboard and then ) > xmodmap to get the proper keycode sent.l  H Placing the following lines into $HOME/.xmodmaprc and then executing theJ command "xmodmap $HOME/.xmodmaprc" will modify the kepmap of a Sun Ultra 1L workstation with a "standard" keyboard such that the numeric keypad will act! the same as a DEC VTxxx terminal,o  ) keycode  53 = KP_F2                      w' keycode  54 = KP_F3                      keycode  57 = KP_Decimal keycode  75 = KP_7 keycode  76 = KP_8 keycode  77 = KP_9 n keycode  78 = KP_F4a keycode  97 = KP_Enter- keycode  98 = KP_4                           n- keycode  99 = KP_5                           g- keycode 100 = KP_6                           h- keycode 101 = KP_0                           tJ keycode 105 = KP_F1                                                        keycode 119 = KP_1 keycode 120 = KP_2 keycode 121 = KP_3N keycode 132 = KP_Separator  # this is what X calls the , on the numeric keypad    G The key labeled "Num Lock" now acts like a proper PF1 key, the / on the M numeric keypad acts like PF2, the * acts like PF3, etc.  The numbers all sends- themselves and work correctly in EDT/TPU/LSE.w  G All windows use the same X keymap.  I plan on putting PF1, PF2, PF3 PF4 < stickers on those keys so that users know how they now work.       -- l  
 Jack Patteeuw    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 04:17:39 +0100n2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)( Subject: Re: Dxterm displayed on Solaris; Message-ID: <3c634353.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e  ( Jack Patteeuw (jpatteeu@ford.com) wrote:J > Has anyone fiddled with xmodmap to create an "appropriate" keyboard fileA > to use with DECterm when it is being displayed on Solaris/CDE ?n   <QUOTE>t From: R. Kevin Oberman Newsgroups: vmsnet.tpu4 Subject: RE: Wanted: EDT/TPU keypad bindings for SUN# Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 19:03:29 GMTh4 Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory+ Message-ID: <3otjg6$rf@lll-winken.llnl.gov>o  : larsen@beethoven.sedd.trw.com (Eric Hadley Larsen) writes:F > I have a Sun Sparc on my desktop.  I often remotely create a DECtermI > on my VAX/VMS machine and route the display back to by sun.  This worksnG > great until I try to edit a file.  I cannot seem to figure out to getk< > the EDT style keypad to map correctly for my SUN keyboard.  K This can get VERY complex. But I can give you a start. Use xmodmap to remap  your keys to do what you want.  H You don't say what type of Sun keyboard you have. I have the Type 4 thatG lacks any cursor keys except on the application keypad, so I think it'sn about the worst case.x  8 Here is the file I pass to xmodmap in my .xsession file:   keycode 101=KP_0 keycode 119=KP_1 keycode 120=KP_2 keycode 121=KP_3 keycode 98=KP_4r keycode 99=KP_5e keycode 100=KP_6 keycode 75=KP_7n keycode 76=KP_8e keycode 77=KP_9  keycode 28=KP_F1 keycode 29=KP_F2 keycode 30=KP_F3 keycode 57=KP_Decimala keycode 52=Prior keycode 53=Nextr keycode 54=Find  keycode 105=KP_F4c keycode 78=KP_Subtract keycode 8=Left keycode 10=Right
 keycode 32=Upn keycode 33=Downt keycode 132=KP_Separator keycode 58=Menuo keycode 97=KP_Entere  J This maps the applications keypad to do the "normal things, with the extraH keys in the second row from the top mapped to prior, next, and find. TheK top 4 "L" keys are mapped to left, right, up, and down. L6 is the "DO" key.i  L In addition, there are odd Motif related problems with several keys that may2 be taken care of with an X resource in .Xdefaults:   *defaultVirtualBindings:\ 3  osfCancel      :               <Key>F11        \n\ 3  osfLeft        :               <Key>Left       \n\l3  osfUp          :               <Key>Up         \n\s3  osfRight       :               <Key>Right      \n\e3  osfDown        :               <Key>Down       \n\n3  osfEndLine     :Alt            <Key>Right      \n\h3  osfBeginLine   :Alt            <Key>Left       \n\e3  osfPageUp      :               <Key>Prior      \n\d3  osfPageDown    :               <Key>Next       \n\r3  osfDelete      :Shift          <Key>Delete     \n\f3  osfUndo        :Alt            <Key>Delete     \n\C3  osfBackSpace   :               <Key>Delete     \n\n3  osfAddMode     :Shift          <Key>F8         \n\c3  osfHelp        :               <Key>Help       \n\m3  osfMenu        :               <Key>F4         \n\ 3  osfMenuBar     :               <Key>F10        \n\ 3  osfSelect      :               <Key>Select     \n\e3  osfActivate    :               <Key>KP_Enter   \n\b3  osfCopy        :Shift          <Key>DRemove    \n\n3  osfCut         :               <Key>DRemove    \n\D+  osfPaste       :               <Key>Insertt  L Note that this must be EXACTLY right or nothing will work, so you might want to cut and paste it.  L now if I could just come up with a Type 5 keyboard I could eliminate most of? this and go faster because I'd have the keys where they belong.  </QUOTE>   Hope it helps,   Martin -- hH    Emacs would be a great   | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5    operating system,        | work: mv@pdv-systeme.decL    if only it came with     |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/<    a decent editor...       | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 01:09:54 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d Subject: Re: FREEWARE 5.0 ' Message-ID: <3C63267F.EB31E3C9@fsi.net>n   "antonio.carlini" wrote: > [snip]& > It's fairly easy to use wget to drag > ' > everything down, but the advantage ofa# > a pre-built ISO is that you don'ta% > have to worry about getting all thee" > little details right when making > an ODS-2 disk.  6 I was gonna get pedantic about ISO vs. ODS, but, eh...   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE SystemsS http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:49:33 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o Subject: Re: Galaxy help!!!!2 Message-ID: <eYA88.662$am1.37416@news.cpqcorp.net>   Upgrade your firmware!      Anton Yelin wrote in message ...8 >"Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> wrote in message& news:<a3tbef$fil$1@news1.xs4all.nl>...B >> "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message8 >> news:3c6192a2.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de...( >> > labadie (labadie_g@decus.fr) wrote:+ >> > > "Anton Yelin" <ant@x509.ru> wrote... L >> > > > I have AlphaServer 1200 vs OpenVMS 7.3. I try set 1 instance Galaxy: >> > > > (by the doc) and GCU write me %GCU-E-INVALIDNODE. >>  ... L >> > > I am not sure, but I think that you need an Alpha 4100, 8200, 8400 or >>  more/ >> > > recent (ES, GS family)Alpha  to do that.P >> >G >> > Nope. Just set GALAXY SYSGEN parameter to 1 and you have a perfect  1-starB >> > galaxy on any Alpha (if you have the license, of course). The >>  abovementionedJ >> > machines are the ones that you can partition (given enough CPUs, I/O,
 >>  etc.). >> > >>L >> Well, it's even better! You don't need a GALAXY license to run a one star
 >> GALAXY! >> >> Bart Zorn >DE >You absolutely right, that "don't need a GALAXY license to run a one. >starv> >GALAXY". But i have another problem. I setup 1-star Galaxy on. >AlphaServer 400 without problem, as writen atL >http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6512/6512pro_006.html#bean_chaptG >. But setup 1-star Galaxy on AS 1200 has failure. Maybe somebody setuph >1-star Galaxy on AS 1200????  >t >Anton Yelin   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2002 21:11:37 -0000w= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> : Subject: Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.)6 Message-ID: <20020207211137.30730.qmail@gacracker.org>  A On 7 Feb 2002, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:o- >In article <3C629D6D.9030303@tsoft-inc.com>, , > David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >|>rC >|> Anybody can interpert anything in whatever manner they choose, eJ >|> permissive or restrictive.  Me, I like a phrase I once read, "whatever? >|> is not forbidden, is allowed".  Show me where the Hobbyist dJ >|> license/agreement/program forbids others than yourself logging onto a  >|> hobbyist system. >|>  > I >How about another (which I think is in the spirit of both Alan and Doc); 2 >"It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission."  K To be honest Bill, I read the license agreement and didn't see any problem.tK As you say, if Compaq decides there is a problem, all I can do is say sorry H and shut up shop :( I really don't want to have to do that though. ThereJ are a few people getting to grips with C and coming from a UN*X backgroundJ in it. I've already had one suggest he port GPLd software to the platform.     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netd   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 08:17:36 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Help with Performance MonitoringaJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0702020817370001@1cust31.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  = In article <fedf6ad9.0202070350.6153b176@posting.google.com>,1/ kcrowleywork@yahoo.co.uk (Kevin Crowley) wrote:s  E >As a newcomer to these forums, can anyone point me towards a posting A >or the correct forum to discuss performance monitoring under VMS 	 >please? n   You're in the right newsgroup.  < >I've been asked to produce some _simple_ PM reports for ourF >VMS 7.1 VAX 4000 500 system. I've been looking at the MONITOR system,C >but before I go any further I'd appreciate any comments/input from"G >anyone else who is already using MONITOR for such a purpose. Thanks inb >advance, Kevin.  D Monitor is a pretty good tool for getting an overview of performanceF issues.  It can't always give you as much detail as you want, but it's likely the best place to start.   H Make sure you look at the "Guide to performance management" (or whatever2 the current name is) in the VMS documentation set.   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:51:11 +0000 (UTC)% From: "pos" <prosullivan@hotmail.com>O- Subject: Re: Help with Performance Monitoringn/ Message-ID: <a3usse$rfc$1@helle.btinternet.com>   8 Always remember that 'simple PM reports' mean just that. Managers want to know:     how many users?d"     what is the application doing?     is this usual?  H Tehno-babble about 'tuning the MPL' will win you no friends. Always makeL clear that these performance statistics are from a *hardware* level only andB without application level data, you will get an incomplete picture    / "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in messagee, news:6Mw88.635$am1.37183@news.cpqcorp.net... >>= > "Kevin Crowley" <kcrowleywork@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message 9 > news:fedf6ad9.0202070350.6153b176@posting.google.com... H >  > please? I've been asked to produce some _simple_ PM reports for ourI > > VMS 7.1 VAX 4000 500 system. I've been looking at the MONITOR system,n >eJ > Try Ecp, free, available on Vax (Vms 5.5-2 until 7.3) and Alpha (Vms 6.2 to	 > 7.3) atoE > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html  >s	 > Regards  >w > Grard >. >t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:51:23 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>fY Subject: Re: HP Sets March 19 for Special Meeting of Shareowners to Vote on Compaq Mergere2 Message-ID: <YZA88.663$am1.37396@news.cpqcorp.net>   Compaq votes the day after HP.  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C6032EA.62CFA0AA@videotron.ca>...o >Peter Weaver wrote: >>9 >> Details at http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020205/50328_1.html0 > K >Will Compaq shareholders also have to approve this, or will they just votea by0 >tendering or not tendering their shares to HP ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:18:32 -05001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> 3 Subject: In stock: ES40 Model 2 USD7895 VMS Ready !o/ Message-ID: <u666ab2ogng470@news.supernews.com>    500Mhz EV6 with 4MB Cachet
 21264 EV6 CPUn 1GB Camintonn Memory 1.44Mb Floppy + CDROMo 4 Slot disk cage( 9GB Ultra 2 SCSI Disk Universal Hot Plug DE500-BA 100MB Ethernet 2 x Ultra2 SCSI Controller S3Trio64 2MB PCI Video Card  No OS License included Keyboard & Mouse, Power CordK Installed in Top Gun Blue Cabinet w/120V PS Pedestal Version  (if required)e   System Price $7895  H Shipping prices below are excluding cabinet and also exclude local taxes and surcharges.t   Shipping to EU $350x Shipping Domestic $150 Shipping: Australia/Asia $400    1 Year Warrantym     -- Island Computers US Corp.S 2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404m Tel: 877 636 4332c International: 001 912 447 6622r  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.neth www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:27:00 GMTV) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)l( Subject: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS1 Message-ID: <3c62fbf2.241882929@news.wcc.govt.nz>a  	 Hi Chaps,   ? I'm struggling with trying to find info on the web for Informix- OpenClient for OpenVMS.    Is there such a beast? Any idea of URLs?M  E Alas, if you go to Informix.com, a search for VMS searches the entiree IBM Database. @ And on the Compaq Web Site all info. seems to be Tru 64 related.   TIAi   Rob.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:56:05 -05000 From: "Scott G. Smith" <s-gsmith@mindspring.com>, Subject: Re: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <u66c1kspv1j1aa@corp.supernews.com>w  G I've searched on some internal IBM web sites, and while I find a littlewF about Unidata, I can't find anything for Unidata OpenClient.  It's not= mentioned in an "Informix Product Roadmap" from January 2002.   F Also, I did run UniData on VMS until about a year ago.  While I didn'tC really keep up with their products, I don't remember any mention ofk OpenClient.h  L Yes, you did read that right.  Running UniData on OpenVMS for IBM!  Ended upK retiring the application after about 5 years.  Lots of talk about migratingyD to RS-6000, but it never happened.  Turns out that after the Unidata7 application was shutdown, IBM went and bought Informix.   $ Talk about a strange turn of events.    6 "Rob Buxton" <rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz> wrote in message+ news:3c62fbf2.241882929@news.wcc.govt.nz...e > Hi Chaps,n >dA > I'm struggling with trying to find info on the web for InformixM > OpenClient for OpenVMS.g >  > Is there such a beast? > Any idea of URLs?N >DG > Alas, if you go to Informix.com, a search for VMS searches the entires > IBM Database.cB > And on the Compaq Web Site all info. seems to be Tru 64 related. >t > TIA  >r > Rob.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:32:29 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> , Subject: Re: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3C63482C.31A2CF5F@fsi.net>.   Rob Buxton wrote:t >  > Hi Chaps,i > A > I'm struggling with trying to find info on the web for Informixh > OpenClient for OpenVMS.t >  > Is there such a beast? > Any idea of URLs?y > G > Alas, if you go to Informix.com, a search for VMS searches the entirei > IBM Database.uB > And on the Compaq Web Site all info. seems to be Tru 64 related.  G There was Informix for VMS many years ago (circa. 1986), but it died in. the UN*X vs. VMS wars, AFAIK.f   -- u David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:01:10 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: installing cobol / Message-ID: <1020207145721.16180A@Ives.egh.com>   B It's on the Sept 2001 LP kit, which I happen to have in my office.F It is probably on the Dec 2001 kits too, but I'd have to go downstairs	 to check.-  C (I'm talking Alpha here.  The original poster said he was trying to C install VAX Cobol on a DS-10.  I would expect more serious problemse with that... ;-)  , On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, John Eisenschmidt wrote:  [ > So how does one get a copy of COBOL 2.7? Is it in any of the recent layered product kits?h > G > >>> Don Braffitt <don.braffitt@compaq.com> 02/07/2002 12:29:51 PM >>> t > "Brant Hanna" <brant.hanna@nordx.com> wrote in message news:<0201291012.AA1012320912@ccmail.kingston.nordx.com>...P > > Anyone with experience installing vax cobol (2.4) on an Alpha DS-10 (7.2-1)?" > > Are these versions compatible?M > > Cobol install seems to install ok, but cobol command doesn't work (hangs)c  > > RTL installation fails with:T > > %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening VMI$ROOT:[SYSEXE]VMS$INSTALL_UPG_DATA.COM; as input > > -RMS-E-FNF, file not foundG > > %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of COBOLRTL V2.4 has failed.9 > H > Support for V2.4, V2.5, and V2.6 on Alpha has concluded.  V2.4 has notC > been supported by Compaq for several years.  The single supported 1 > version of Compaq COBOL today on Alpha is V2.7.F > B > V2.4 is not compatible with EV6 and more recent processors.  TheH > failure you will see if you attempt to use this unsupported version of+ > DEC COBOL is the compiler hang you noted.e >  > - Don Braffitt( >   Compaq COBOL and SORT project leader   -- e John Santosu Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:28:59 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: Load Balancing DNA across 2*2MBit WAN links- Message-ID: <87heosodms.fsf@prep.synonet.com>l  / adrian_ogden@hotmail.com (Scumbag Adie) writes:-  ? > We are stuck with DNA IV which I believe doesn't support loadh3 > balancing (please correct me if this is rubbish).a   @ > Do you know of any bridges that will do DNA IV load balancing?  > Ph IV does do load balancing. I've run it over 9 ( I think...)% serial lines out of a pair of DHVs ;)p  ? You need to exsure that "MAXIMUM PATH SPLITS" is >1 in the EXECy? CHAR stuff. May need a stop/start to change it. And ensure thatu both lines are the same COST.n     -- T< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:53:05 GMTrG From: "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <tom.otoole@jhu.edu>h9 Subject: Re: Microsoft will stop "innovating" for a month ' Message-ID: <3C634CE5.51404999@jhu.edu>    WILLIAM WEBB wrote:p > @ > It appears to be a new usage of the word "innovating" as well. >  > WWWebb  C But the innovation that will happen after a month of absention will  surely be legendary.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:43:28 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>1# Subject: Re: Microsoft's financials=2 Message-ID: <2DC88.674$am1.37545@news.cpqcorp.net>  J The problem with Bill Parish is that he's a nut.  It is hard to drill down: to find the nuggets of actual fact from paranoid delusion.    = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C618D3D.FF60DE7C@videotron.ca>...= >John McLean wrote:_ >>J >> I stumbled across a vey interesting webpage that alleges that Microsoft >dL >Ball Parish has been warning about this for a few years already.  When MS'sJ >stock thumbled from the $120 range down to the $50 range last year, guess what- >Uncle Billy did as one of the first action ?T > K >He reassured his employees that they would not get substantial pay cuts by ! >changing the stock options plan.r >tH >Microsoft essentially is printing money by constantly issuing new stock thatK >is handed to its employees. This worked fine during high growth years. Buty ifK >Microsoft is to stagnate in the $50-$70 dollar range and still not declare  any J >dividends, institutional investors will eventually drop the stock because it >won't be performing.  > H >I think that Gates is aware that MS's structure is no longer viable and thisH >is why you are seing stuff like .NET and a an attempt to get enterpriseK >customers which would generate steady revenus not dependant on issuing new L >releases of software. You'll also note that Gates' personal fortune is also >more diversified.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:09:19 -08002 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam># Subject: Re: Microsoft's financials 2 Message-ID: <a3ujn7$2gg$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>  ? At about the same time, a columnist for Newsweek, Allan Sloan?,y9 made the same complaint.  I have a basic understanding ofc9 accounting, but certainly not at the CPA level, and it is 8 my understanding that stock options and their subsequent9 exercise thereof, are Capital Account entries and have nof impact on Income or Expenses.y  ? Just as when a company has a public offering, the cash receivedr= for subscribing to stock has no impact on profit or loss, thes< same holds true for exercised stock options.  These kinds of9 transactions do have an impact on cash.  If all Microsoftg< employees exercised their options at the same time, assuming> the stock price remained the same, Microsoft probably wouldn't; have enough cash on hand to satisfy these transactions.  Ify= the stock being provided was treasury stock, then there wouldn< be more shares in the public's hands, which could drive down= the share price.  On the other hand, if they had to go to the0< market to get the shares, it could drive up the share price.= (Of course BG might make a special deal with them to keep thef7 share price stable and not deplete the company's cash.)i  7 The bottom line is that these transactions are probablye> Capital Account transactions and therefore have no impact upon9 profit/loss.  Having said all this, stock options of thisa; magnitude do have the potential for impacting the company'sv= cash flow, and should therefore be disclosed somewhere in theS company's annual report.    < John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C618A0A.77F4DC07@swissonline.delete.ch...a  G I stumbled across a vey interesting webpage that alleges that MicrosoftrH is making very substantial losses and has been hiding the fact for quiteE some time.  The basic argument is that Microsoft has been granting an F excessive number of stock options and this has enabled them to present: much better profit figures than they would otherwise have.  H A quote from the article - In an 8/7/99 cover story, The Economist notedC that a proper accounting at Microsoft would result in a loss of $18tC billion for 1998 rather than the reported earnings of $4.5 billion.h  A And another - According to an ABC News 1/22/99 article by MichaelyG Martinez, Microsoft's own internal auditor, a respected 30 year veteran B and former partner of Deloitte and Touche, was fired in 1996 afterG informing management that their earnings manipulations were illegal ands$ violations of the SEC and FASB laws.  4 The URL is http://billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html  F I make no judgement on the story but it does look interesting.  I alsoD wonder what the impact would be on Compaq if Microsoft came unstuck.F (AFAIK Compaq also issues stock options but I don't believe the number is anywhere near Microsoft's.)     John McLeann   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:13:58 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: Microsoft's financialsr, Message-ID: <3C6309FB.B1C495A7@videotron.ca>   Randy Park wrote:8; > transactions do have an impact on cash.  If all Microsofts> > employees exercised their options at the same time, assuming@ > the stock price remained the same, Microsoft probably wouldn't9 > have enough cash on hand to satisfy these transactions.y  L I know that some companies had stock options for executives that resulted inJ shareholders complaining because those options resulted in new stock beingD issued for those options, thus diluting the shareholder's dividends.  J In the case of Microsoft, since it doesn't issue dividends, as long as theK price of its stock rises, then MS can issue new stock to pay its employees.v   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:30:34 +11009 From: forMsytAhm@optusShom.com.aKu (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth)d Subject: News serverso8 Message-ID: <slrna66e1t.21f.forMsytAhm@plague.bogus.com>  	 Hi folks,g  P What do people use as a news server ? Seems that the options are anu-news, dnewsP or to crank up a Linux box and use INN. Of course it needs to be open source andI free otherwise I'd just tell 'em to go with dnews. Anticipating that theyyP (client) wants to go with anu-news, which is their preferred option so far, does< anyone  have a set of annotated sample configuration files ?   TIAo   Oorooe	 Mark F...    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:40:53 GMTI' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>s Subject: Re: Problem with smtp..+ Message-ID: <3C62D90C.3091EBD5@pacbell.net>p   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:a >  > Hi..! > We have some problem with smtp./ > 
 > DS20E 6/500  > VMS 7.2-1- > TCPIP Services 5.0Ae > 3 > All seems to startup OK, but it's not possible tos( > either send or receive any smtp mails. > 8 > I'v tried with TELNET 127.0.0.1/port=25, but can't get8 > the normal dialog running("220...", "HELO" and so on).8 > The LOG file (TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG) is created when2 > the TELNET command is tried. Iv also defined the; > TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_DEBUG and TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_TRACE logicals, 4 > restarted smtp, but don't get anything more in the > TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG file.n > ; > We've checked the basic IP setup (dns, gw, and so on) but  > didn't find anything special.   E "Anything special" sounds like a can of worms. Sometimes it's best tobF see how others are setup. I run VMS 7.2 w/ TCPIP 5.1. Here's my config, for SMTP (note I also run the POP service) : TCPIP> show config smtpa   SMTP ConfigurationB                                                                    Options @ Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16      	 EIGHT_BITlF Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16       RELAY@ Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                                TOP_HEADERS-  G Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  TerminatemG   Send:                   5          5          5          3         10n   Receive:                5$   Alternate gateway:  not defineda General gateway:    not definedt  ' Substitute domain:  HIDDEN, ALPHASE.COM  Zone:               ALPHASE.COM    Postmaster:         POSTMASTERD Log file:           DKA100:[MAIL_RSVP.POSTMASTER]SMTP_POSTMASTER.LOG  0 Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes  ! TCPIP$SMTP_VMS2_00     1     VMS2a  " ----------------------------------   TCPIP> show serv/full smtp  
 Service: SMTP -                            State:     EnabledwG Port:               25     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0@? Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$SMTP      Process: 7
 TCPIP$SMTPC Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       2M  2 File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM Flags:        Listen   Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheck,0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  F Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr>  File:        SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG   Security  Reject msg:  not defined   Accept host: 0.0.0.03  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0i     > 7 > Now, doing a "TELNET 127.0.0.1/port=25" should not beh2 > dependent on name servers or routers or anything* > other "external" to the localhost, not ? > : > What else could make the smtp server to *not* respond to > a local call to port 25 ?. > > > Outgoing mail is another question, but I thought that I'd at8 > least would get the smtp server to accept local calls. > : > B.t.w, the TELNET test works just fine on a AS 1200 with? > VMS 7.2-1 and TCPIP 5.0A ECO-1. The only SW difference is the- > ECO1 for TCPIP...- >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.0   -- :   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:58:10 -0500e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)Y Subject: Re: problems with VMS server not recognizing boot clients after taking it off fdCK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0702022158110001@1cust173.tnt4.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>l  C In article <BOECKNAHIJPJAMDEEHDNIEAPDIAA.metze@ginny.mrl.uiuc.edu>,u2 "Virginia Metze" <metze@ginny.mrl.uiuc.edu> wrote:   >>-----Original Message-----: >>From: Michael Austin [mailto:maustin@firstdbasource.com] >>set proc/priv=all  >>reply/enable=(sec,network) >>C >>Are the boot clients still on the same network?  Did MOM$LOAD getuH >>defined, is check to make sure that DECNET is on what ever new circuit >>you are using...I >>Does DECNET start? what circuit.  It has been a while dealing with bootrJ >>clients, but I seem to recall a config command procedure that set up the >>circuit etc....- >>-- > M >Never changed any of the basic definitions but am going this minute to checkl >MOM$LOAD... >i/ >Decnet otherwise works (set host, for example)4 >2K >I have re-run the configuration for the server, and it did fix the server,fH >but a client trying to boot kept getting one problem after another.   I >thoughtK >I had them all fixed, but now don't see any traffic from the client.  ThattK >client always booted over ethernet.  However, a client that was on fddi isTK >not even visible on the ethernet.  That may be a machine specific problem,,	 >however.  >5  I What kind of "clients" are you trying to boot?  VMS satellites?  Terminalf$ servers?  Some other kind of widget?  H The conventional VMS satellite boot is managed by CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM (orD CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM).  The boot node typically knows the hardwareH address of the satellite.  If you change the network device, you need toF use CLUSTER_CONFIG to update the address info for the satellite.  I'veJ never done this with FDDI, but I believe there is similar hardware address information.   What VMS version(s)? What DECnet version(s)? 8 Are any relevant messages showing up on the boot server?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:47:52 GMTtL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")$ Subject: Re: Purveyor runs VMS Perl!8 Message-ID: <00A0935E.1E7B6DF7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0202070605.7edf4b96@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:i >Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<mtbNaUovNbY3@eisner.encompasserve.org>...SO >> In article <3C6168DB.C110D6ED@sosu.edu>, Dan Moore <dmoore@sosu.edu> writes:I	 >> > Bob,, >> > c` >> >     Yup. Purveyor runs CGI routines (EXEs or Scripts)  just like any other wbserver should. >> > 6 >> >      Purveyor has also had a very nice authentication/authorization interface that uses the SYSUAF. Too bad it is a retired product. I still don't understand why process let it die. >> tE >> Because the competition was giving away VMS web servers for free !o >tH >cost was only $900 and it was worth every penny!  unlike the convelutedK >unix structures of apache and osu (confs and worse), purveyor had a single I >configuration file that could be created and managed from a html session   K I'm not sure I see why having a .CONF file is automatically bad, but in anysE case I think it very unfair to accuse OSU of having a convoluted Unix I structure.  And you can use a browser to manage it, although I always usei EVE myself.s  L >that was it besides a startup and restart com ... and it ran the best underM >vms, we did testing w/all 3 web servers under tcpware, ucx and multinet, anda >tcpware/purveyor was superior!0   When did you run those tests?>  ( Have you tested or even considered WASD?   -- Alan4    O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210pO ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:43:14 +0100e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>f$ Subject: Re: Purveyor runs VMS Perl!) Message-ID: <3C62E6E1.136F1F14@gtech.com>c   Bob Ceculski wrote:wI > cost was only $900 and it was worth every penny!  unlike the convelutedxL > unix structures of apache and osu (confs and worse), purveyor had a singleN > configuration file that could be created and managed from a html session ...3 > that was it besides a startup and restart com ...:  F I have not tried Apache on VMS, but on other platforms it has just oneB configuration file (since they merged srm.conf and access.conf was merged into httpd.conf).O  A You can run OSU with just one configuration file, if you want to.h  % OSU can be managed via web-interface.p  ; So those characteristics are not exactly Purveyor specific.e   Arne  B PS: Most real VMS people prefer to edit a configution file instead,     of using a web-interface for management.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:06:36 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> # Subject: Re: Queue & stock quandaryS1 Message-ID: <jfA88.9519$X2.105269@nnrp1.uunet.ca>f  3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message-! news:3C629A3D.7287BEA1@aaa.com...2= > Regarding VMS and JetForm, below is an answer from Accelio.>> > Sad, it was a real nice product (and maybe still is on other > plattforms). > ...@  C That is very sad, JetForm on VMS could do magical things with laser F printers. I hope someone out there is trying to buy the rights to thisH product and remarket it (anybody from Process reading this????) or maybeH Rich should give them a call and see what he can offer them to bring the& product back. Just wishful thinking...   --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.s   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:48:08 -0800 (PST)T' From: Ingemar Olson <IOLSON@NOSPAM.com> # Subject: Re: Queue & stock quandary0/ Message-ID: <01KDZQIEDTP08YJWKF@dairyworld.com>    Thanks to all who replied.  G I'll probably go with "Syltrem"s suggestion and build the smarts of the G form selection into the application. It means hardcoding one queue name  but we can live with that.  B The other suggestion that should work would be to have another jobE check the queues periodically and automatically do the change of formwF rigamarole. That's doable but in this case I don't think I'll have to  bother though.  H If anyone (in the future) thinks of a "proper" solution, please post it!   Ingemar    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:22:17 -0500w- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>-# Subject: Re: Queue & stock quandary ( Message-ID: <3C62EFFC.2F53E098@ohio.edu>  0 At least hardcode a logical name for the queue.    				RDPl     Ingemar Olson wrote: >  > Thanks to all who replied. > I > I'll probably go with "Syltrem"s suggestion and build the smarts of thenI > form selection into the application. It means hardcoding one queue name  > but we can live with that. > D > The other suggestion that should work would be to have another jobG > check the queues periodically and automatically do the change of formnG > rigamarole. That's doable but in this case I don't think I'll have tot > bother though. > J > If anyone (in the future) thinks of a "proper" solution, please post it! > 	 > IngemarH   -- uB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 2002 15:33:31 -0800l% From: mark@reisources.com (Mark Reis)n+ Subject: SDA accepting command line args...e= Message-ID: <898a0dc8.0202071533.30c4f07d@posting.google.com>t  2 The following doesn't work for the obvious reason:/ "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet"t  N Does anybody know of a workaround that allows SDA to accept command line args?   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:34:19 GMTm1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> / Subject: Re: SDA accepting command line args...n' Message-ID: <3C634899.6E0E5215@fsi.net>    Mark Reis wrote: > 4 > The following doesn't work for the obvious reason:1 > "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet"o > P > Does anybody know of a workaround that allows SDA to accept command line args?  G Well, no, not command line arg.'s, but have you tried putting them in aiC script and then DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT to point to the script beforei issuing the PIPE... command?   -- a David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 01:06:38 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ( Subject: Re: setting the record straight' Message-ID: <3C6325FB.9F58EBB6@fsi.net>t   David Froble wrote:s > [snip]H > IPF is not important.  The port to 'relative hardware independance' isG > what's important.  It could allow VMS to survive every system we known, > about today.  Let's NOT badmouth the port.  % Well, I'm not "badmouthing the port".e  H What I'm saying is what I've been saying for the last almost four years:D IA64 is a future. IA32 is the present, has been the present for some@ time, and will continue to be the present for some time to come.  D Everything that OpenVMS-Alpha tries to emulate is already running on$ IA32 under NT/W2K, Linux, *BSD, etc.  G High time to get with the program - that's been my point for some years  now.  : >  > Then again, that may be too "bleeding edge" for some. >  >H >  > Consider: a reputation is *NOT* built upon what we are GOING TO do, > ratherH >  >  upon what have done and continue to do. As illustrated by multipleG >  >  posts here in this forum, Compaq's reputation is rather tarnishednG >  > at this point. I'd have to agree, though I wish it were otherwise.l > J > Compaq and VMS are not necessarily the same thing.  Compaq owns VMS now.G > DEC owned VMS at one time.  HP may own VMS.  Others may in the future 
 > own VMS.   One can only hope.  I > Compaq's reputation is in tatters.  Given.  Let's worry about importantm	 > things.e  D Compaq's reputation is not unimportant. When you're trying to sell aC Compaq product, especially in a site where the Q already have a badeD rep., you're going in with four strikes against you. Makes it damned
 hard to sell.e  F >  >> I have seen the incremental headcount going up in step with what# >  >> we have asked for by quarter.o >  >>r >  >E >  > Are those permanent positions, or will they go away once the newa > product(s) >  >  is(are) up and running?n > C > It doesn't matter.  Once we have VMS re-invented as 'new hardwarecJ > independant', if the headcount goes down, that's a transitory thing.  ItN > can go up and down multiple times.  A finished port is what's important now.  G The point is will there be anyone there to carry on when Hoff, Fred and H others are no longer in the work force? The future of any product is the" people who develop and support it.   -- 1 David J. Dachteram dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:45:15 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>p: Subject: Stopping the Queue Manager and Starting a new one1 Message-ID: <zPA88.9525$X2.105430@nnrp1.uunet.ca>g  E I was changing the name on one of our test nodes today and decided toi4 recreate the queue database to reflect the new name.  L I did a STOP/QUEUE/MANAGER/CLUSTER that stopped the manager, then I tried toE start the new queue manager and I was told that the queue manager wastE already running. I have gone through several attempts at stopping and G starting the queue manager but I can not create the new queue database.s  # $ stop/que/man/clus ! First attempt 0 $ start/que/man/new ! Try to start a new manager= %JBC-E-JOBQUEENA, system job queue manager is already runninge* $ stop/que/man/clus ! Try to stop it again9 %JBC-E-JOBQUEDIS, system job queue manager is not running 1 $ start/que/man/new ! Try again for a new manager,= %JBC-E-JOBQUEENA, system job queue manager is already runninge $ sh que %JBC-E-NOSUCHQUE, no such queued4 $ start/que/mana    ! Try restarting the old managerG $ sh que            ! The old manager restarted, with the old node nameo  . Batch queue OTHER_BATCH, stopped, on oldname::  , Batch queue SYS$BATCH, stopped, on oldname::      ) This is on 7.1-1H2 on a standalone Alpha.h   --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:10:35 -0500o5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>-> Subject: Re: Stopping the Queue Manager and Starting a new one2 Message-ID: <U95iPAP7IKPiFjvmCQeXivOxLplY@4ax.com>  & START/QUEUE/MANAGER/NEW_VERSION should7 do the trick.  You might also want to check on the name(2 of the queue manager via SHOW QUEUE/MANAGERS/FULL;7 you might have multiple queue managers, although that'si not likely.l   David R. BeattyC  1 On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:45:15 -0500, "Peter Weaver"s <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:e  F >I was changing the name on one of our test nodes today and decided to5 >recreate the queue database to reflect the new name.n >fM >I did a STOP/QUEUE/MANAGER/CLUSTER that stopped the manager, then I tried tomF >start the new queue manager and I was told that the queue manager wasF >already running. I have gone through several attempts at stopping andH >starting the queue manager but I can not create the new queue database. > $ >$ stop/que/man/clus ! First attempt1 >$ start/que/man/new ! Try to start a new managera> >%JBC-E-JOBQUEENA, system job queue manager is already running+ >$ stop/que/man/clus ! Try to stop it againn: >%JBC-E-JOBQUEDIS, system job queue manager is not running2 >$ start/que/man/new ! Try again for a new manager> >%JBC-E-JOBQUEENA, system job queue manager is already running	 >$ sh que   >%JBC-E-NOSUCHQUE, no such queue5 >$ start/que/mana    ! Try restarting the old managereH >$ sh que            ! The old manager restarted, with the old node name >S/ >Batch queue OTHER_BATCH, stopped, on oldname::a >r- >Batch queue SYS$BATCH, stopped, on oldname::0 >A >R >.* >This is on 7.1-1H2 on a standalone Alpha.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:38:40 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>I> Subject: Re: Stopping the Queue Manager and Starting a new one1 Message-ID: <EBB88.9544$X2.105820@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   B "David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in message, news:U95iPAP7IKPiFjvmCQeXivOxLplY@4ax.com... >$( > START/QUEUE/MANAGER/NEW_VERSION should9 > do the trick.  You might also want to check on the nameT4 > of the queue manager via SHOW QUEUE/MANAGERS/FULL;9 > you might have multiple queue managers, although that's:
 > not likely.0 >...  H Thanks, that was it. We did play around with creating multiple queues on this box a few months back.C   --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:28:51 GMTn* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: The Vision Thing,@ Message-ID: <TzA88.17078$6o2.994082@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  K Just got to ruminating about the abject incompetence of first DEC's and nowtI Compaq's and HP's Boards of Directors, and wondered (really - I'm nowherea> nearly sufficiently informed of details to be sure) if there a distinguishable pattern.  K DEC's BoD ousted a long-term-proven performer (KO) at a point in time whererG new products (Alpha, storage) were positioned to return DEC at least tooL prosperity and possibly to its not-yet-completely-lost glory.  They replacedI him with an incompetent who proceded to rid the company of large parts ofcH its value to the point where it could be sold.  Does anyone really thinkH that KO would have treated stockholders as poorly as they wound up under Palmer?n  J Compaq's BoD ousted another long-term-proven performer (Pfeiffer, who IIRCJ had rescued Compaq from impending oblivion around 1991 and built it into aB sufficient powerhouse to purchase DEC) at a point where Compaq wasI positioned to start to capitalize on the DEC acquisition plus restructurenI its PC business to meet the unexpected Dell onslaught.  They replaced himk@ with an incompetent who proceded to fritter away most of the DECK opportunities (except storage:  the service business seems to have degraded L significantly since the acquisition, and the Alpha business certainly didn'tK shine as it could have, even before the June 25th fiasco) without improvingmI Compaq's position in PCs at all (would it really have taken Pfeiffer thistJ long to accomplish the little in efficiency improvements that Curly boasts of?).i  J I don't know how qualified Carly's predecessor at HP was, but she seems toK have been another disaster on a par with Palmer and Curly.  The thread thatcF seems to connect them all is the lack of any real understanding of theL business their companies engage in, with an MBA mentality that doesn't beginJ to make up for that lack.  They also seem to share agreeable personalitiesG that may help them get along swimmingly with their BoDs (why else wouldnF Compaq's and HP's boards be so overwhelmingly supportive of the mergerF insanity?) but don't seem to count for squat in making their companies perform.  H Gerstner seems to prove that you don't need to be an industry insider toJ have vision.  Maybe Jack Welch does as well (I don't know his background).K The idea that some idiot BoD might get rid of people like them because of anH short-term change in corporate fortune is chilling - but KO and PfeifferJ were men of at least somewhat comparable stature, and it happened to them.  K What is it that makes BoDs so ready to roll the dice in the absence of direUI necessity when the odds of finding a leader (or a significant part of therJ entire top management team, as happened when Pfeiffer left) as good as theD one they're ousting are so poor and the long-term effects so drasticC compared with any possible short-term stock-price bump based on theeB perception that they're responding in some positive way to current
 difficulties?D   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:52:37 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>) Subject: Re: The Vision Things5 Message-ID: <3C62DB05.D54422A8@swissonline.delete.ch>n   Bill Todd wrote: >  ...iM > DEC's BoD ousted a long-term-proven performer (KO) at a point in time where'I > new products (Alpha, storage) were positioned to return DEC at least togN > prosperity and possibly to its not-yet-completely-lost glory.  They replacedK > him with an incompetent who proceded to rid the company of large parts offJ > its value to the point where it could be sold.  Does anyone really thinkJ > that KO would have treated stockholders as poorly as they wound up under	 > Palmer?u  G From various web references it looks like Big Ken was ousted because ofhE his management style - putting people in charge of some major productgG line and letting them be completely autonomous.  It's great if you havetB the right people but not so great if you don't.  (Maybe it was theC fashion in the early 80's but changed around in the 90's to be moree
 dictatorial.)u  H I've seen a lot of comments about Palmer but I have never been sure that@ he wasn't doing exactly what the Digital BoD asked him to do ...  L > Compaq's BoD ousted another long-term-proven performer (Pfeiffer, who IIRCL > had rescued Compaq from impending oblivion around 1991 and built it into aD > sufficient powerhouse to purchase DEC) at a point where Compaq wasK > positioned to start to capitalize on the DEC acquisition plus restructure=9 > its PC business to meet the unexpected Dell onslaught. -  H He had the vision to recognise that Compaq needed to be more than just aG PC company and after 6 years in charge, he took decisive action but waseF unable to follow through after buying Tandem and Digital.  Reading theH comments when Cappelas was appointed it looks like Pfeiffer was in aloof? outsider who clashed with Compaq BoD (or maybe just Ben Rosen).      > They replaced himiB > with an incompetent who proceded to fritter away most of the DECM > opportunities (except storage:  the service business seems to have degradedSN > significantly since the acquisition, and the Alpha business certainly didn'tM > shine as it could have, even before the June 25th fiasco) without improvinghK > Compaq's position in PCs at all (would it really have taken Pfeiffer thisiL > long to accomplish the little in efficiency improvements that Curly boasts > of?).S  G The way that Pfeiffer was heading, Compaq would have relegated PCs to ai7 minor department just like Compaq's role model IBM ....-  -J > Gerstner seems to prove that you don't need to be an industry insider toL > have vision.  Maybe Jack Welch does as well (I don't know his background).M > The idea that some idiot BoD might get rid of people like them because of aeJ > short-term change in corporate fortune is chilling - but KO and PfeifferL > were men of at least somewhat comparable stature, and it happened to them.  @ I've seen comments that Pfeiffer sold Compaq stock just before aG quarterly financials statement that showed a distinct downturn.  CompaqtG BoD didn't like him doing this and it was goodbye Eckhard.  Now if he'do been in Enron ...d  M > What is it that makes BoDs so ready to roll the dice in the absence of direeK > necessity when the odds of finding a leader (or a significant part of thewL > entire top management team, as happened when Pfeiffer left) as good as theF > one they're ousting are so poor and the long-term effects so drasticE > compared with any possible short-term stock-price bump based on thePD > perception that they're responding in some positive way to current > difficulties?r  G The CEO is supposed to be in charge of day-to-day operations and so thesF BoDs find it easy to blame them when things go badly.  It might be theC CEO, it might be the board's directions to the CEO, it might be the F general economy.  It's usually the CEO that gets the bullet ...and theF (almost invisible) board finds someone else to do their bidding.  (AndD with some companies, the undemocratic election process for directors? ensures that cronies of the board can get elected very easily.)s     John McL   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:57:00 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: The Vision Thing:, Message-ID: <3C62E9EE.D45659A3@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > DEC's BoD ousted a long-term-proven performer (KO) at a point in time whereaI > new products (Alpha, storage) were positioned to return DEC at least tot? > prosperity and possibly to its not-yet-completely-lost glory.c  N Ken O's vision may prove to have been right in the long term, but at the time,G he failed in many areas, notably recognising the PC as a competitor andaM working to lower cost of ownernship instead of working to protect revenus. ItfL is unclear that Ken O would have had the guts to price Alpha workstations toK kill off Windows 3.1 and make DECwrite the industry standard word processort/ instead of Word. (or Wordperfect at that time).=  K DEC also failed to quickly move on TCPIP. I understand their decision to go J OSI because at the time, the governments had mantadated it, but DEC should! still have gone TCPIP. It failed.e  N I think that a long list of "could have" could be drawn for the time where KenL was in charge. This does not relieve Palmer of any responsability for makingK things worse, but it does state that DEC's problems had begun before Palmerg  was installed as DEC's last CEO.     > They replacedtK > him with an incompetent who proceded to rid the company of large parts of 1 > its value to the point where it could be sold. a  I Palmer's actions during the last 3 years of Digital (1996-1997-1998) were. "suggested" by Pfeiffer. -J I think that Pfeiffer made a big mistake in ditching the networks portion.  H Cisco may have been big already at that time, but the destruction of theH networking division allowed companies such as Bay Networks (purchased byL Nortel) to emerge. Imagine if Digital's network products had been a mainstay with Cisco's in the .COM boom.  L Similarly, at a time where Digital's disk drive business was starting to getF market exposure, Palmer ditched it, ditching with it the DLT and otherG technologies. Note that IBM is still a big manufacturer of disk drives.   J > Gerstner seems to prove that you don't need to be an industry insider to > have vision. n  J Neither Capellas nor Palmer were anywhere in the same league as Gerstner. K Remember that Rosen, after firing Pfeiffer, could not find a suitable "highDJ power" CEO to lead compaq and had to give the interim Capellas the job. IfM Capellas was not given the job initially, it is because Rosen didn't think hesF had the stuff needed to take that job. But when Rosen failed to find a$ suitable CEO, he turned to Capellas.  L Carly's case is different. She had supposedly done a terrific job at Lucent,) so she was expected to do the same at HP.p   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:00:32 GMTuL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: Re: The Vision Thing 8 Message-ID: <00A0935F.E382FE1B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  L In article <TzA88.17078$6o2.994082@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:   >gL >What is it that makes BoDs so ready to roll the dice in the absence of direJ >necessity when the odds of finding a leader (or a significant part of theK >entire top management team, as happened when Pfeiffer left) as good as the E >one they're ousting are so poor and the long-term effects so drasticrD >compared with any possible short-term stock-price bump based on theC >perception that they're responding in some positive way to currentS >difficulties?  O When the crops fail (stock price goes down), somebody's got to be sacrificed tonM appease the gods (analysts, big investors). The king (CEO) is the traditionalsK person to be sacrificed.   The gods must have blood, so the king can delay  N getting sacrificed himself by randomly slaughtering a lot of people (declaring/ a reduction in force, axing valuable projects).h   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056>M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210)O ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:30:06 -0000s- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)m Subject: Re: The Vision Thing 7 Message-ID: <91AEACA92warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>y  + billtodd@metrocast.net (Bill Todd) wrote ine6 <TzA88.17078$6o2.994082@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>:   
 -- snip --I >Gerstner seems to prove that you don't need to be an industry insider tot> >have vision.  Maybe Jack Welch does as well (I don't know hisG >background). The idea that some idiot BoD might get rid of people like-G >them because of a short-term change in corporate fortune is chilling -eF >but KO and Pfeiffer were men of at least somewhat comparable stature, >and it happened to them.  >2  
 -- snip --  J Speaking of Jack Welch, I found the paragraph below, where he talks about  the merger, at:  e  / www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/tech/035952.htm    ________  L ``Your competitors want this deal to go through. It will create chaos. They H will clean both your clocks while you're doing all this. That's the one F argument that rang a bell with me,'' Welch said, echoing an objection # raised by the deal's main opponent.  ________   ws   -- e   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)a The Associated Press  < ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:21:46 -0500m1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>g Subject: Re: The Vision ThingJ2 Message-ID: <3C62FDFA.A769A32F@firstdbasource.com>   IMHO:q  E It was Pfeiffer who really killed OpenVMS and Alpha.  right after thegH merger he was quoted as saying they  (Compaq) were going to kill OpenVMSE and every major company in the country started ditching it as fast asaH possible, two notables were DuPont and ATT.  Then Capellas tried to turnF it around but it is very obvious he failed and we continue on the downG hill slide.  While there are a few big Alpha wins here and there, therepH are a lot more losses.  I have been at 4 companies in the last year that1 are ditching VMS in favor of Solaris and some NT.f  G Palmer did exactly what the board wanted him to do... tear it apart andeC sell it off so they could line their pockets and destroy one of theE= biggest innovators of technology in the history of computers.c -- t   Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comu    Bill Todd wrote: > M > Just got to ruminating about the abject incompetence of first DEC's and noweK > Compaq's and HP's Boards of Directors, and wondered (really - I'm nowhere @ > nearly sufficiently informed of details to be sure) if there a > distinguishable pattern. > M > DEC's BoD ousted a long-term-proven performer (KO) at a point in time wheredI > new products (Alpha, storage) were positioned to return DEC at least tosN > prosperity and possibly to its not-yet-completely-lost glory.  They replacedK > him with an incompetent who proceded to rid the company of large parts ofoJ > its value to the point where it could be sold.  Does anyone really thinkJ > that KO would have treated stockholders as poorly as they wound up under	 > Palmer?/ > L > Compaq's BoD ousted another long-term-proven performer (Pfeiffer, who IIRCL > had rescued Compaq from impending oblivion around 1991 and built it into aD > sufficient powerhouse to purchase DEC) at a point where Compaq wasK > positioned to start to capitalize on the DEC acquisition plus restructure K > its PC business to meet the unexpected Dell onslaught.  They replaced him B > with an incompetent who proceded to fritter away most of the DECM > opportunities (except storage:  the service business seems to have degradednN > significantly since the acquisition, and the Alpha business certainly didn'tM > shine as it could have, even before the June 25th fiasco) without improvinguK > Compaq's position in PCs at all (would it really have taken Pfeiffer thisuL > long to accomplish the little in efficiency improvements that Curly boasts > of?).5 > L > I don't know how qualified Carly's predecessor at HP was, but she seems toM > have been another disaster on a par with Palmer and Curly.  The thread thatnH > seems to connect them all is the lack of any real understanding of theN > business their companies engage in, with an MBA mentality that doesn't beginL > to make up for that lack.  They also seem to share agreeable personalitiesI > that may help them get along swimmingly with their BoDs (why else wouldhH > Compaq's and HP's boards be so overwhelmingly supportive of the mergerH > insanity?) but don't seem to count for squat in making their companies
 > perform. > J > Gerstner seems to prove that you don't need to be an industry insider toL > have vision.  Maybe Jack Welch does as well (I don't know his background).M > The idea that some idiot BoD might get rid of people like them because of a J > short-term change in corporate fortune is chilling - but KO and PfeifferL > were men of at least somewhat comparable stature, and it happened to them. > M > What is it that makes BoDs so ready to roll the dice in the absence of diretK > necessity when the odds of finding a leader (or a significant part of thegL > entire top management team, as happened when Pfeiffer left) as good as theF > one they're ousting are so poor and the long-term effects so drasticE > compared with any possible short-term stock-price bump based on the D > perception that they're responding in some positive way to current > difficulties?m >  > - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:39:09 -0500i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>) Subject: Re: The Vision Thingo, Message-ID: <3C6301D4.D4A4E3CD@videotron.ca>   Michael Austin wrote:nJ > are a lot more losses.  I have been at 4 companies in the last year that3 > are ditching VMS in favor of Solaris and some NT.s  M We're not allowed to say bad things about VMS here, some people get angry anddC accuse you of preventing sales if you say negative things about it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 02:12:54 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: The Vision Thing A Message-ID: <GuG88.16249$EP1.1109915@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>m  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3C62FDFA.A769A32F@firstdbasource.com... > IMHO:b > G > It was Pfeiffer who really killed OpenVMS and Alpha.  right after the J > merger he was quoted as saying they  (Compaq) were going to kill OpenVMSG > and every major company in the country started ditching it as fast askJ > possible, two notables were DuPont and ATT.  Then Capellas tried to turnH > it around but it is very obvious he failed and we continue on the down
 > hill slide.r  I I have it on excellent authority that Capellas talked about his plans foroI axing VMS shortly before his elevation to the appropriate Peter PrinciplerK level (and after Pfeiffer's departure) - so suggesting that he was a friendkL of VMS is a  bit questionable.  So is your attribution above, since PfeifferI certainly was an Alpha booster before his ouster:  do you have a credibler/ source for it (and the actual wording he used)?    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:44:31 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: The Vision Thing , Message-ID: <3C633B42.9E720FB8@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:K > I have it on excellent authority that Capellas talked about his plans fornK > axing VMS shortly before his elevation to the appropriate Peter Principlew) > level (and after Pfeiffer's departure) p    N Who took the decision to axe Windows on Alpha ? The one who made that decision0 is the one who decided that Alpha had no future.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 03:34:11 GMTa+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>R Subject: Re: The Vision ThingD, Message-ID: <a3vgvj$6qb$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  ) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:t (some snippage)o  J > Gerstner seems to prove that you don't need to be an industry insider toL > have vision.  Maybe Jack Welch does as well (I don't know his background).M > The idea that some idiot BoD might get rid of people like them because of acJ > short-term change in corporate fortune is chilling - but KO and PfeifferL > were men of at least somewhat comparable stature, and it happened to them.  H Just a FYI to give Jack Welch's background, since I get to hear about itF so often.  He received his B.S. in Chemical Engineering from here, theI University of Massachusetts at Amherst in '57, and then his M.S. and Ph.D G from the University of Illinois.  By the late '60s or early '70s he wasn< the was the manager in charge of GE's Plastics R&D division.   Joe Heimannh   heimann@ecs.umass.edut   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:38:06 GMTtG From: "bgInc. - You'll go where we want you to go" <tom.otoole@jhu.edu>D  Subject: Re: There must be a way' Message-ID: <3C634962.4254D565@jhu.edu>o   Bob Koehler wrote: > O > In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry Tunis <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:uJ > > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster. IH > > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive byJ > > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a system; > > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way.a > J >    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition >    disks.t > J >    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veJ >    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actuallyF >    on one disk.  Replace new, old1, odl2, old3 below with the proper" >    logical names for your disks: > E >    1) on the new disk, create directories for each of the three oldt >       disks: > ! >          $create/dir new:[old0],! >          $create/dir new:[old1]i! >          $create/dir new:[old2]n > I >    2) copy the trees from each of the old disks to the new directories:  > ; >          $backup old0:[*...] new:[old0...]/owner=originali; >          $backup old1:[*...] new:[old1...]/owner=original ; >          $backup old2:[*...] new:[old2...]/owner=originale > C >    3) remove the three old disks, and define three logical names:. > F >          $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) - >             old0 new:[old0.]F >          $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) - >             old1 new:[old1.]F >          $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) - >             old2 new:[old2.] > D >    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butD >    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commandsG >    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actualm# >    directory on old0 for somedir:a >     C Alternatively you could use Glenn Everhart's VDDRIVER to create thet illusion of multipleF physical disks using container files on the actual disk. Sorry if this has already been mentioned...     -Tom O'Toole -tom@globalauctions.come   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Feb 02 13:03:03 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comg  Subject: Re: V5 Freeware - DIBOL( Message-ID: <i0KT4wp$6lZQ@cpva.saic.com>  2 In article <efg88.562$am1.36996@news.cpqcorp.net>,5  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: J > In article <0$hLyYYbCptd@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:- > :In article <3c5ff82c$1@news.kapsch.co.at>,b0 > : eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:M > :> In article <YV60ZnZt3cLL@cpva.saic.com>, mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com writes:CL > :>>Included on the V5 freeware is the old VAX DIBOL distribution. Is there > :>>a license to accompany it?h > :>>o= > :>>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/dibol/e > :> c< > :> Haven't seen a response so far. Did you get an answer ? > :> - > :> -- A > :> Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651 @ > :> Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888A > :> KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netrM > :> A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"h > : D > :No... no response. It would be nice if a future freeware included( > :the license (as was done with Bliss). >  > I >   Bluntly, I screwed up when I put that Dibol kit onto the Freeware V5.l > I >   Until and unless I can fully clear it, I will not be providing a PAK.  >  >   ' Thanks for your honesty and for trying.r   -- n - Jimf   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:23:54 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaignc' Message-ID: <3C634628.E09ADD7B@fsi.net>a   Jerry Leslie wrote:l > D > VMS has been called the "Rodney Dangerfield" of operating systems,1 > because it doesn't get the respect it deserves.e > C > Perhaps the future owner of VMS (HP, IBM, CA) could use Rodney ina > some television ads.  F Well, it's true VMS "gets no respect" in many circles. I'd not want it  to be taken as a joke, though...   My $0.02...n   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsm http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:19:36 GMTo? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)h+ Subject: Re: Whatever happened to Spiralog?r0 Message-ID: <3c62df65.33971738@news.demon.co.uk>  C Sigh.  Brain fade.  Spent too long away from the RMS code, I guess.a That, or I'm just getting old.  B Yep, Bill is correct on multi-key RMS index files when one or moreF secondary keys are updated.  If you have such a file, are updating oneE or more secondary keys, and depend on the accuracy of those secondary D keys, you really need to use RU Journaling if you want to avoid some5 out of band management activity to recover the file. w   Jim.    ! On Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:52:37 GMT,a@ Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) wrote:  C >On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:04:06 -0500, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>v >wrote:  >eN >>"Jim Johnson" <Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com> wrote in message+ >>news:3c62605b.1449644@news.demon.co.uk...o) >>> To emphasize what Bill has also said:d >>>aG >>> - the Spiralog snapshot is semantically the same as a 'crash point'nJ >>> inasmuch as it represents the state of the disk at a specific point inF >>> time.  Any corruption that results from this directly implies thatI >>> there are states which may cause data corruption on a system failure.t >>>iE >>> - RMS and ODS-n are designed to use careful updates to avoid just-J >>> these types of corruption.  If you see any corruption of this type, itG >>> is a bug and should be reported to Compaq.  Certainly when I was in:C >>> the RMS group reports of problems such as these were taken VERYA >>> seriously. >>>cH >>> - If your application sees a logial corruption due to a snapshot, orD >>> due to a system failure, then your application is not practicingJ >>> careful update, and therefore that application cannot survive a systemI >>> failure.  It is not highly available regardless of how many boxes you  >>> buy from Compaq. >>J >>What do you mean by "logical corruption"?  My contention is that after aN >>crash you can wind up with an RMS file that has invalid keys.  The data will> >>be intact but the indexes need to be rebuilt with a CONVERT. >uC >Let's take this in parts.  At the lowest level, there should be no,G >point in time where the data on disk forms a sufficiently inconsistenteC >set of data such that I have to rebuild it to access it.  So, if I F >find that I get a fatal prolog or format error, I'm looking at a bug. >That should be reported ASAP. >oG >At the next level, where I have a series of updates to make to perform F >a single operation (e.g. adding a record with multiple keys), I firstF >need to define what the valid intermediate states are.  They could beD >that it is valid for keys to point to records that don't exist, for> >instance.  What is important is that these rules are defined,B >documented, and adhered to -- both by the software performing theE >operation (RMS in this case) and the user of that software.  Failure-= >to do so by either party is a bug on the part of that party.a >oC >(For instance, let's say that it is legal for a key to be realizedDE >first before the data record, which means that a 'deleted reference'tD >error is actually a legitimate state of the file.  If this state isA >not hidden by the accessing software, and the application is notdG >prepared to handle that case, then that application may incorrectly bee, >unable to continue after a systems failure) > E >Now, even if everyone is able to handle the full set of valid statestE >of the data, it may be useful to run maintenance operations in orderrF >to reduce future operation and recovery times.  That is where CONVERTD >should come in the scenario you outlined.  However, it is still theG >case that if it is needed for correct operation, there is a problem in/ >the RMS/application stack.  >_E >Please note that I do not have the RMS documentation in front of me, D >and cannot remember if all the legal partial states are hidden fromD >the application.  I do know that RMS did operate in accordance with  >the principals described above. >l >Jim.  >o >> >>>_G >>> - Therefore, if you have an application that purports to be missionrI >>> critical, the ONLY reason for shutting down that application during aiF >>> snapshot should be to reduce that application's recovery time whenF >>> next run against that snapshot.  If you have any other reasons youB >>> either have encountered bugs in OpenVMS or in the application. >>>s >>>.F >>> Finally, a side note, since we're close to the topic.  OpenVMS hasH >>> historically used careful updates to avoid data inconsistency.  ThisJ >>> works, but is complicated and, frankly, slow.  It would have been muchH >>> better if other parts of the system had over the years adopted writeJ >>> ahead logging, or even transaction-based, techniques.  There are many,C >>> many instances in VMS where these would improve performance andt< >>> simplify the code, without any loss in data consistency. >>>  >>> Jim. >>>h >>>rF >>> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:50:47 -0500, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>
 >>> wrote: >>>t: >>> >"Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message< >>> >news:d7791aa1.0202061010.275253a6@posting.google.com...< >>> >> Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message* >>> >news:<3C614C83.D3CB317D@gtech.com>... >>> >> > Bob Ceculski wrote:? >>> >> > > > On Wed, 06 Feb 2002 08:12:55 GMT, "C.W.Holeman II"e >><cwhii@ACM.org>e >>> >wrote:' >>> >> > > >4 >>> >> > > > >Whatever finally happened to Spiralog?
 >>> >> > >N >>> >> > > I heard everything was going great, then gone!  I say compaq killed >>it
 >>> >underK >>> >> > > pressure of oracle and other db marketers ... IBM has db2, againt
 >>> >capellase- >>> >> > > has failed to follow the IBM plan!r >>> >> >
 >>> >> > ????  >>> >> >2 >>> >> > Spiralog is a file-system not a database. >>> >> >
 >>> >> > Arneh >>> >>B >>> >> I know that, except that it would have allowed access speedA >>> >> and allowed for such things as backups on open files which E >>> >> is not allowed now and might entice people to use rms as theird  >>> >> db instead of buying one! >>> > K >>> >It was a myth that Spiralog could make a valid backup of an open file.fM >>> >Spiralog could take a "snapshot" of a disk and backup that snapshot view  >>ofK >>> >the disk.  If an RMS file was in the middle of splitting a bucket whenn >>theCI >>> >snapshot is taken then the backup copy of that file will be corrupt.l >>> >uB >>> >The advantage of snapshots is that you only have to stop your >>applicationsI >>> >for as long as it takes to make the snapshot.  If you really want toa >>backup+ >>> >while your app keeps running, use Rdb.d >>> >p >>> >n >>> >t >>>  >>> Jim Johnsons >>> Software Exploration, Ltd.- >>> (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)s >> >> >n >Jim Johnson >Software Exploration, Ltd.i* >(remove '.nospam' from the reply address)   Jim Johnsonm Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:46:53 +0100t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>o+ Subject: Re: Whatever happened to Spiralog?e) Message-ID: <3C62E7BD.C0BAA5A2@gtech.com>s   Bob Ceculski wrote: ] > Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3C614C83.D3CB317D@gtech.com>...r > > Bob Ceculski wrote:lR > > > I heard everything was going great, then gone!  I say compaq killed it underO > > > pressure of oracle and other db marketers ... IBM has db2, again capellaso( > > > has failed to follow the IBM plan! > >e > > ???? > >e- > > Spiralog is a file-system not a database.  > = > I know that, except that it would have allowed access speedl< > and allowed for such things as backups on open files which@ > is not allowed now and might entice people to use rms as their > db instead of buying one!   C I do not think Oracle and IBM was feeling very threatened by RMS atb that point of time !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:09:04 GMT  From: 1076366@charter.nett Subject: who uses vms?0 Message-ID: <3c62d0a5.26344581@news.charter.net>   ok.m  4 is there a list of companies still using vax/vms????   by city/state|prov/country????   1076366@charter.netr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:00:05 -0500  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: who uses vms?4 Message-ID: <C2256B59.006D7BAA.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   ok.   0 is there a list of individuals still looking for  + a list of companies still using vax/vms????p   by city/state|prov/country????   0123456789@ease           - 1076366@charter.net on 02/07/2002 02:09:04 PMu  % Please respond to 1076366@charter.net    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:y Subject:  who uses vms?V         ok.f  4 is there a list of companies still using vax/vms????   by city/state|prov/country????   1076366@charter.nety   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:30:59 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>2 Subject: Re: who uses vms?' Message-ID: <3C6347D2.75184143@fsi.net>e  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:2 >  > ok.9 > 2 > is there a list of individuals still looking for > - > a list of companies still using vax/vms????6  H Well, at the very least, job hunters, holdout ISVs, OEMs, VARs, etc. ...  > There's been posts here in recent memory asking for such info.   -- a David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:07:35 -0700u4 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comn8 Message-ID: <mj146u0khm9v11rnubj4mmj8aene9u6ipe@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:48:22 -0500, shannon@widomaker.com (Shannon) wrote:  9 >In article <4a8v5uc0hhisdr77khhsi8bptta7dqk1uv@4ax.com>,i7 >Brian Inglis  <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:n >pG >>>In article <Zv578.4657$3E5.376480@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,d0 >>>William Meyer <wmhmeyer@earthlink.net> wrote:L >>>> "Charles Shannon Hendrix" <shannon@news.widomaker.com> wrote in message- >>>> news:h1ji3a.j21.ln@escape.shannon.net...R >>>> >? >>>> > And WE are perfectly happy to let you lay claim to that.l >>>> rM >>>> Might as well be, as the southern English patois in America is descendedo0 >>>> rather cleanly from the Queen's own tongue. >>>rJ >>>..among other things, yes.  I've always heard that the incomprehensibleF >>>Tangier Islanders are speaking English as it was 300-400 years ago,E >>>it's just that the rest of us, England included, have all changed.- >>@ >>It's nice that you recognize the Celtic regions as bastions of >>old dialects.  >eI >Are they Celtic? I can't remember, and I've not been out there in years.sI >The island was dying the last time I went out there. The next generation @ >is not expected to stay. I'm surprised it has lasted this long. > G >When I was there they had a small airport and a TV station, and fairlyr2 >modern schools after decades of resisting it all.  = The previous poster stated that England had changed, omittinga, mention of the other countries in the UK ;^>   -- m  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadao  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply   tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov 						spam traps   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.075 ************************