0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 08 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 76      Contents: Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro  Re: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ) BILF for ALPHA?  Re: BILF for ALPHA?  Re: BILF for ALPHA? , channels and socket descriptors interchange?0 Re: channels and socket descriptors interchange?& Re: Clients & Connections on Pathworks' Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space  Re: curses on OpenVMS  Re: Galaxy help!!!!  Re: Galaxy help!!!! ' Getting a public quote from HP on VMS ? 1 Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.) 1 Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.) 1 Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.) > home use (was: RE: The stupidity of granting software patents)B Re: home use (was: RE: The stupidity of granting software patents) How to upgrade Miata (PWS 433a) P Re: HP Sets March 19 for Special Meeting of Shareowners to Vote on Compaq Merger. Re: In stock: ES40 Model 2 USD7895 VMS Ready !# Re: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS   Re: interrupt state CPU activity/ Re: Load Balancing DNA across 2*2MBit WAN links 9 Merger to dull HP's crown jewel? So much for unix and VMS  Re: Microsoft's financials Re: Microsoft's financials Re: News servers Re: News servers Re: News serversH NLCUG - SECURITY event; April-18, Utrecht, Netherlands; pre-announcement Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECK  Re: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECK  Re: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECK  Re: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECK< Problem connecting via X25 with different throughput classes Re: Problem with smtp. Re: Purveyor runs VMS Perl! & Re: SDA accepting command line args...& Re: SDA accepting command line args...& Re: SDA accepting command line args...& Re: SDA accepting command line args...& Re: SDA accepting command line args... Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight B Re: Snippet from USA today on Land Warrior digital-fighting system! SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? % Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? % Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? % RE: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? % Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? % RE: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? % Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS? - Re: The Inq : The OpenVMS on Itanium schedule - Re: The Inq : The OpenVMS on Itanium schedule * The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. RE: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. RE: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents. Re: The stupidity of granting software patents Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing Re: The Vision Thing US-FL-Cobol-vax-vms - WANTED, Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign, Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad CampaignD VMS usage in UK hospitals, was: Re: The Inq : The OpenVMS on Itanium Re: who uses vms? ? Re: Why are Alphas so fast when performing number calculations?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:03:12 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: $DESCRIPTOR macro) Message-ID: <3C63E8B0.17CDC05B@gtech.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Arne Vajhj wrote:0 > > Actually "KEDNOS" is an array of characters. > 1 > Nop, it is a pointer to an array of characters.    Nope.   8 Try yourself and do pointer arithmetic on it. Not legal.  - It can only be assigned to a pointer to char.   J > > 'KEDNOS' is not an array of characters. It is illegal lexical element. >  > Try the following: >  > #include <stdio.h> > main() > {  > long x = 'KEDN' ; : > printf("Value of X is : %ld  or in hex: %lx )\n", x,x ); > }  > K > you will find that 'KEDN' yields a 4 byte value (long int), not an array. L > Replace 'KEDN' with 'ABCD' and it becomes very obvious in the hex display.   ????  3 I said that 'KEDNOS' is an illegal lexical element.   C The fact that 'KEDN' is a legal integer is not particular relevant.    Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:56:00 -0500+ From: "Mike Kier" <michael.kier@compaq.com> ' Subject: Re: BEA MessageQ (DECMessageQ) / Message-ID: <lyS88.41$Jh4.232@news.cpqcorp.net>   F We use MessageQ extensively on the Indiana Toll Road.  It connects theH Windows/NT touch screen PCs (Visual Basic) in the lanes with the OpenVMSI Alphas (Fortran 95) in the Toll Plaza building and they in turn use it to G connect with the OpenVMS Alphas at the Toll Road Administration Center. J We've been using it for over five years and have never lost a transaction. We run over TCP/IP Services V5.   F I also know of a large aluminum rolling mill that uses it extensively. --	 Mike Kier  Compaq Professional Services Cincinnati, OH, USA  michael.kier@compaq.com    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 14:00:49 GMT = From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)  Subject: BILF for ALPHA?+ Message-ID: <a40lmh$rpc@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>   K OK, so a colleage emailed me a .ZIP archive containing (I believe) a single N OpenVMS AXP executable.  Every time I try to unzip it (UNZIP.EXE is UnZip 5.42< of 14 January 2001, by Info-ZIP), I get the following error:  = 	Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  Please H 	run "bilf l X$SRC:[DATA]BLOG.ZIP;1" to convert the zipfile to stream-LF= 	record format.  (BILF is available at various VMS archives.)   N So I go out searching for BILF since I don't happen to have it sitting around.N I find it in lots of places, but all the .EXE's that I find are apparently notM Alpha EXE's.  So I download source & a make file from one of the sites I find N it at (I think the Process Software Multinet site is where I settled on; thereM were a lot).  Even the ones citing Alpha versions tried to link using VAXCRTL N and were written assuming one wouldn't have DECC (defined their own strdup()).  F I modified the source to enclose the local definition of strdup() in aM conditional compilation, #ifdef __VAXC/#endif.  Recompiled and linked without ( specifying a CRTL and it seemed to work.  F Unfortunately, when I then run BILF with parameters of "l" and the zipG archive, UNZIP reports THE SAME error, except now it's on version 2, as  created by BILF.  E Is there something I can do short of asking the colleage to zip it up C differently, or to supply the file(s) in some other archive format?   M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+ N | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          | M | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          | M | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         | M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       | M | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close | M | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            | M | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      | M +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+ 9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\ #       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN !        X        AGAINST HTML MAIL 	       / \    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:41:48 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: BILF for ALPHA?2 Message-ID: <3C63E3AC.9960ECD7@firstdbasource.com>  3 Look here for a "tool to reset the file attributes.   ; http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/000tools/    or BILF from here.  0 http://www.agh.cc.kcl.ac.uk/files/vms/vms_share/    * "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" wrote: > M > OK, so a colleage emailed me a .ZIP archive containing (I believe) a single P > OpenVMS AXP executable.  Every time I try to unzip it (UNZIP.EXE is UnZip 5.42> > of 14 January 2001, by Info-ZIP), I get the following error: > F >         Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseQ >         run "bilf l X$SRC:[DATA]BLOG.ZIP;1" to convert the zipfile to stream-LF F >         record format.  (BILF is available at various VMS archives.) > P > So I go out searching for BILF since I don't happen to have it sitting around.P > I find it in lots of places, but all the .EXE's that I find are apparently notO > Alpha EXE's.  So I download source & a make file from one of the sites I find P > it at (I think the Process Software Multinet site is where I settled on; thereO > were a lot).  Even the ones citing Alpha versions tried to link using VAXCRTL P > and were written assuming one wouldn't have DECC (defined their own strdup()). > H > I modified the source to enclose the local definition of strdup() in aO > conditional compilation, #ifdef __VAXC/#endif.  Recompiled and linked without * > specifying a CRTL and it seemed to work. > H > Unfortunately, when I then run BILF with parameters of "l" and the zipI > archive, UNZIP reports THE SAME error, except now it's on version 2, as  > created by BILF. > G > Is there something I can do short of asking the colleage to zip it up E > differently, or to supply the file(s) in some other archive format?  > O > +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+ O > | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | O > | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          | O > | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          | O > | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         | O > | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       | O > | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close | O > | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            | O > | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      | O > +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+ ; >                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999] 4 > <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>L > <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a> >  > -- >       /"\ % >       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN # >        X        AGAINST HTML MAIL  >       / \    --     Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.com  President/Sr. DBA Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:00:20 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: BILF for ALPHA?) Message-ID: <3C63E804.C7374BC8@gtech.com>   * "j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818" wrote:M > OK, so a colleage emailed me a .ZIP archive containing (I believe) a single P > OpenVMS AXP executable.  Every time I try to unzip it (UNZIP.EXE is UnZip 5.42> > of 14 January 2001, by Info-ZIP), I get the following error: > F >         Error:  zipfile is in variable-length record format.  PleaseQ >         run "bilf l X$SRC:[DATA]BLOG.ZIP;1" to convert the zipfile to stream-LF F >         record format.  (BILF is available at various VMS archives.) > P > So I go out searching for BILF since I don't happen to have it sitting around.P > I find it in lots of places, but all the .EXE's that I find are apparently notO > Alpha EXE's.  So I download source & a make file from one of the sites I find P > it at (I think the Process Software Multinet site is where I settled on; thereO > were a lot).  Even the ones citing Alpha versions tried to link using VAXCRTL P > and were written assuming one wouldn't have DECC (defined their own strdup()). > H > I modified the source to enclose the local definition of strdup() in aO > conditional compilation, #ifdef __VAXC/#endif.  Recompiled and linked without * > specifying a CRTL and it seemed to work. > H > Unfortunately, when I then run BILF with parameters of "l" and the zipI > archive, UNZIP reports THE SAME error, except now it's on version 2, as  > created by BILF. > G > Is there something I can do short of asking the colleage to zip it up E > differently, or to supply the file(s) in some other archive format?   : BILF was originally shipping witH ZOO many many years ago.  G ZIP gives that error, when the file is not "binary" (which in VMS world  is Fixed 512).  C There are a pretty good chance that the file content is corrupt and ) no matter what you do it can not be read.   ? Request it again. And be very creaful to treat it as binary the 
 whole way.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 18:23:31 GMT 7 From: yehavi@vms.huji.ac.il (Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279)) 5 Subject: channels and socket descriptors interchange? $ Message-ID: <2002Feb8.182331@hujicc>   Hello,  L    I am writing a telnet-alike program using UCX as the TCP/IP transport andH came into the following obstacle: the select() function does not supportJ channels returned by $ASSIGN, and $QIO does not accept socket descriptors.  J    Is there any function to translate between the two so I can either callN select on $ASSIGN channels or use $QIO with ASTs on socket descriptors? I knowN I can use the $QIO interface of sockets instead of the socket functions, but I try avoiding it.  5                                     Thanks! __Yehavi:    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:35:46 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 9 Subject: Re: channels and socket descriptors interchange? / Message-ID: <M4U88.51$Jh4.234@news.cpqcorp.net>    Nope.   L Making fork() and select() are the 2 #1 UNIX features that we are looking at for the future.       F Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279) wrote in message <2002Feb8.182331@hujicc>... >Hello,  > I >   I am writing a telnet-alike program using UCX as the TCP/IP transport  and I >came into the following obstacle: the select() function does not support K >channels returned by $ASSIGN, and $QIO does not accept socket descriptors.  > K >   Is there any function to translate between the two so I can either call J >select on $ASSIGN channels or use $QIO with ASTs on socket descriptors? I knowI >I can use the $QIO interface of sockets instead of the socket functions,  but I  >try avoiding it.  > 6 >                                    Thanks! __Yehavi:   ------------------------------   Date: 8 FEB 2002 14:26:27 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)/ Subject: Re: Clients & Connections on Pathworks 5 Message-ID: <8FEB02.14262785@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   M In a previous article, ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess) wrote:   ! ->That is very interesting to me. B ->We have licenses for 350, but "nbshow knbstatus" as above shows  ->  A ->Sessions:  In use:   286 of   325;  maximum configurable:   325  ->  : ->Do you know what factors limit the maximum configurable?  F The number of clients specified on ADMIN/CONFIG. It usually will add a@ safety factor to the number of clients you specify. In my case IE specified 150 clients and got 175 sessions. I'm guessing you probably  specified 300.  @ Number of sessions have no relation to licenses. You can see how@ many licenses are in use (and remaining) by issuing: PWLIC afterE defining the PWLIC symbol by doing @sys$manager:pwrk$define_commands.    --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisont2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:12:58 +0100 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>o0 Subject: Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space+ Message-ID: <3C63969A.7AD9CC9E@mediasec.de>i  H > In my case, the program running is ( n to 12) detached processes, "SQLI > servers", interacting with other detached processes.  They share global:F > pages and service user connections (browser or VT terminal).  As the5 > global page count grows, I've hit a CTLPAGES limit.   H That seems strange. CTLPAGES are private to each process. Maybe whatever8 database software you are using allocates from CTLPAGES?   	Jan   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 07:28:38 -0600g- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n Subject: Re: curses on OpenVMS3 Message-ID: <6roybCuor8HW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <4f886957.0202070915.1c0b7ecb@posting.google.com>, gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin) writes:cH > I know about and use the SMG ones.  Where is the BSD flavored version  >documented?  I    I don't recall specifically, but the most likely doc set I was lookingrE    at, and the most recent, is the September 2000 CDs.  Look in the Ce    RTL chapter on curses.m   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 01:47:18 -0800e From: ant@x509.ru (Anton Yelin)D Subject: Re: Galaxy help!!!!= Message-ID: <b29f8652.0202080147.13b7607f@posting.google.com>o  * Thank you, but i have latest firmware.....   Anton Yelinh    o "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<eYA88.662$am1.37416@news.cpqcorp.net>...t > Upgrade your firmware! >  >V   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:14:48 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Galaxy help!!!!/ Message-ID: <C0S88.34$Jh4.117@news.cpqcorp.net>   L Well.  The error message you supplied would lead one to believe that the VMSJ version you are using, and the firmware version you are using do not agree with each other.      Anton Yelin wrote in message ...+ >Thank you, but i have latest firmware.....t >e >Anton Yelin >  >pA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messageo. news:<eYA88.662$am1.37416@news.cpqcorp.net>... >> Upgrade your firmware!p >> >>   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 12:58:34 -0600tG From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)f0 Subject: Getting a public quote from HP on VMS ?3 Message-ID: <+r1wIZ+ShOkD@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  C After reading the latest comments in c.o.v about the future of VMS, F I am wondering if anyone here (for example, Terry Shannon or employeesI of large organisations) has actually tried to contact HP to try and get a G public quote on the future of VMS (as they seem happy to mention NSK) ?t  # If you did, what were the results ?t  E Do any of the above people feel like trying and reporting the results  back to the rest of us ?   Simon.  E PS: And yes, I know everything that Compaq is doing in this area, butN Compaq is not HP.i   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       r+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:04:47 +0100 (MET)N9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> : Subject: Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.); Message-ID: <01KE103R7EN68Y7KQF@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>i  C > In grey areas such as these I would tend to just go for it if theeE > machine was under my personal control and no money changed hands. I-C > would get the user to accept conditions of use making clear thererG > could be no commercial gain from use of the system and provide a linkC7 > to DECUS/Encompass web and the hobbyist sign up page.  > B > I'd then run it, unless a "cease and desist" notice arrived fromE > Compaq. If it did I would immediately terminate the service with noc > arguments!   F > My guess is that such use is probably strictly against the rules butD > not sufficiently outside the "spirit" for the legal team to botherH > about. Even if they did bother provided you complied with any requests3 > immediately that should be the end of the matter.E   Great suggestion!u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:10:59 +0000t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>): Subject: Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.)* Message-ID: <3C63F893.DE0C961D@virgin.net>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:i  J > Thanks Alan, I'll certainly take on your suggestions for additions, i.e.L > linking to Hobbyist signup page(s) (URL?). As to doing a Terms of Service, >8   www.montagar.com/hobbyistm     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 16:27:42 -0000g= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>x: Subject: Re: good legal practice (Good auditing practice.)6 Message-ID: <20020208162742.31961.qmail@gacracker.org>  ; On Fri, 08 Feb 2002, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:t >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >oK >> Thanks Alan, I'll certainly take on your suggestions for additions, i.e. M >> linking to Hobbyist signup page(s) (URL?). As to doing a Terms of Service,e >> >P >www.montagar.com/hobbyist  K I had another look at montagar to see if I was missing anything. There's nooG link there that takes you to DECUS, or whatever it is being called this  week. :)  H Since openvms.org is probably maintained more frequently than my site, IG added a link to it on the shell accounts page. If anybody asks for more H information I'll refer them there, or to the other links such as the FAQH and beginner's guide which I retrieved from an archive of David Mathog's; seqaxp site. If anybody here wants an account just refer to1) http://vmsbox.cjb.net/shell-accounts.htmll     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net-   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:43:17 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>aG Subject: home use (was: RE: The stupidity of granting software patents)p; Message-ID: <01KE1I5VGRW08ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  @ > For home use, I can see the argument that there is very littleJ > alternative. Most people discard Apple from the equation or forget aboutF > it. Even when VMS runs on "commodity" hardware I doubt it will get aI > look in because it is not actively promoted. Ironically, Alpha hardwareuG > is the dream setup of most serious Linux users, and they mostly thinkt > VMS is dead. C  F VMS is great for home use.  Sure, it's not well known, but that is no H different than elsewhere.  A home user doesn't need the latest greatest D hardware, and VMS hardware can be picked up for free or very cheap, D licenses are cheap, VAXman has a page with details of how to get it  hooked up to the internet.  @ In fact, for the home hobbyist user a VMS system is probably the cheapest legal alternative.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 17:29:02 -0000c= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>.K Subject: Re: home use (was: RE: The stupidity of granting software patents) 4 Message-ID: <20020208172902.711.qmail@gacracker.org>  H On Fri, 08 Feb 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:A >> For home use, I can see the argument that there is very littleoK >> alternative. Most people discard Apple from the equation or forget aboutnG >> it. Even when VMS runs on "commodity" hardware I doubt it will get adJ >> look in because it is not actively promoted. Ironically, Alpha hardwareH >> is the dream setup of most serious Linux users, and they mostly think >> VMS is dead.  >iG >VMS is great for home use.  Sure, it's not well known, but that is no oI >different than elsewhere.  A home user doesn't need the latest greatest >E >hardware, and VMS hardware can be picked up for free or very cheap, iE >licenses are cheap, VAXman has a page with details of how to get it X >hooked up to the internet.   J I know, but it is suffering from security through obscurity. Hell, it's soH obscure that I'll bet I could ask a class of undergrads about it and theC few who had heard of it would probably think it was no longer being B developed. Compaq should be aiming for the following conversation:   Q: VMS?a A: kewl!  A >In fact, for the home hobbyist user a VMS system is probably the. >cheapest legal alternative.  K Indeed it is, I'm quite happy with my AlphaServer 2100. It ain't blindinglye1 fast, but it is a solid and dependable workhorse.      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:22:16 +0000 (UTC)* From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>( Subject: How to upgrade Miata (PWS 433a), Message-ID: <a405c8$ss0$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  	 Hi group!s  ! This is slighty off topic, sorry.I  @ I've succeeded to make old PWS 433a run VMS. Now I'm considering possible upgrades.  A 1) Can I replace the processor with higher frequency one and onlyw&    set the frequency dips accordingly?E    (Does EK-ALMIA-UP describe the upgrade? Anybody seen that manual?)s  B 2) There's no L3 cache now. They are expensive. Is there commodity    model that can be used?  D 3) I've read that early PWS models (MX5) had bug in Pyxis. It's saidE    that models without USB connectors probably have the bug. Is thered?    any better way to identify buggy Pyxis? >>> show config saysA0    Pyxis Asic Pass 257 . Would it be new enough?  G 4) Which ultra 2 or ultra160 SCSI controllers are supported by OpenVMS?BA    I can learn the official names from spd, but liked to know theE1    "real" names and chips like 53C895, 2940U2W...r  7 5) I've heard that max memory is 1,5 GB. Is that right?a   Regardso           Osmo   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 07:33:51 -0600o- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)dY Subject: Re: HP Sets March 19 for Special Meeting of Shareowners to Vote on Compaq Mergert3 Message-ID: <nFByLutBnTQa@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  j In article <YZA88.663$am1.37396@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  > Compaq votes the day after HP. > ? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C6032EA.62CFA0AA@videotron.ca>.... >>Peter Weaver wrote:S >>>U: >>> Details at http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020205/50328_1.html >>L >>Will Compaq shareholders also have to approve this, or will they just vote > by1 >>tendering or not tendering their shares to HP ?h  D    Nice full page add today from Mr. Hewlett today in the WashingtonD    Post.  He seems to agree with many of us, more PC business is not    what most companies need.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:44:54 +01002 From: "Herman Zilverberg" <zilverberg@t-online.de>7 Subject: Re: In stock: ES40 Model 2 USD7895 VMS Ready !./ Message-ID: <u68759s058n3ab@news.supernews.com>   F Maybe my question is offtopic, but is yr. compy making  money with the" hardware or with the shippingcost?   Harry   B "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag) news:u666ab2ogng470@news.supernews.com...0 > 500Mhz EV6 with 4MB Cacheo > 21264 EV6 CPU- > 1GB Camintonn Memory > 1.44Mb Floppy + CDROM1 > 4 Slot disk cage* > 9GB Ultra 2 SCSI Disk Universal Hot Plug
 > DE500-BA > 100MB Ethernet > 2 x Ultra2 SCSI Controller > S3Trio64 2MB PCI Video Card  > No OS License included > Keyboard & Mouse, Power CordC > Installed in Top Gun Blue Cabinet w/120V PS Pedestal Version  (ifp	 required)x >t > System Price $7895 >oJ > Shipping prices below are excluding cabinet and also exclude local taxes > and surcharges.o >  > Shipping to EU $350i > Shipping Domestic $150 > Shipping: Australia/Asia $400  >u > 1 Year WarrantyT >L >Z > -- > Island Computers US Corp.e > 2700 Gregory Streetd > Savannah GA 31404a > Tel: 877 636 4332 ! > International: 001 912 447 6622h" > Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 > dbturner@hpaq.netn > www.hpaq.net >l >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 08:10:23 +0100.9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>I, Subject: Re: Informix OpenClient for OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3C6379DF.32C2124D@aaa.com>e  , Note that "OpenClient" != "a Informix DBMS".  3 OpenClient is for Informix as SQL*net is for Oraclea7 or SQL/Services is for Rdb. So it's just a API to wrote) client (remote) applications.   % Don't know if there is one for VMS...(   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 01:03:44 -0800p( From: giese@volkswerft.de (Rainer Giese)) Subject: Re: interrupt state CPU activityh= Message-ID: <2f256f8d.0202080103.1c4d7c26@posting.google.com>M  * > The graphic card is a 3Dlab oxygen VX1.  > Someone got an idea ?s  E I had the same on an ES45 with that graphic card. I've made a call toi CPQ and that was the answer :e  3  The problem is due to fifo underflow interrupts.  lE  The fix was made in p3_driver.c rev X-6 and is checked into ruby andt v73r.    Rainer Giese   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 07:48:17 -0600eG From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)b8 Subject: Re: Load Balancing DNA across 2*2MBit WAN links3 Message-ID: <KSuOFhzrWvpx@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  \ In article <87heosodms.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: > @ > Ph IV does do load balancing. I've run it over 9 ( I think...)' > serial lines out of a pair of DHVs ;)  >   = Ok, I'll bite. What was on either end of the link, why serial/% links and why stop at only nine ? :-)n   Simon.   -- eG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       d+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:40:31 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> B Subject: Merger to dull HP's crown jewel? So much for unix and VMS. Message-ID: <zrR88.1577$LL.420@news1.bloor.is>  F http://news.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-8741588-0.html  3 The Starting Line: Merger to dull HP's crown jewel?2 02/08/02 04:00 AM  Source: News.com URL:J http://investor.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-8741588-0.html  L Walter Hewlett paints Hewlett-Packard's proposed merger with Compaq ComputerG as a threat to HP's most profitable business: printing and imaging. ButtJ merger or no merger, some question whether the business will continue as a growth machine..G Hewlett argues that Compaq's PC business, which suffers from low profiteL margins on cheaper, mass-produced products, will be a drain on HP's printingL and imaging juggernaut. At the moment, HP's printing and imaging business isJ the most profitable unit in either company, thanks to sales of high-margin ink and printing accessories.s  K Fully 70 percent of HP's profits come from printing and imaging, with about H 30 to 35 percent coming from supplies, said Technology Business Research analyst Humberto Andrade.   B But part of the argument for the HP-Compaq deal is that technologyL products--including printers and related products--will mature and reach theD point where companies need scale, especially for corporate business.L "Increased commoditization is just the name of the game," Compaq CEO Michael6 Capellas said recently. "This is just a fact of life."  K Certainly fierce price wars have erupted lately among printer vendors. DatarH compiled by NPD Intelect and augmented by Salomon Smith Barney show thatF average prices for retail inkjets from printer companies including HP,I Xerox, Lexmark, Epson and Canon, fell almost 9.6 percent during December,nK while black-and-white laser printer prices dropped 10.3 percent. Prices foryG color lasers, considered the future of the industry, essentially stayed  flat.g  I More troubling for the industry's profit margins is that prices of inkjetnJ supplies--the primary source of printer companies' profits--slid roughly 3L percent for three major vendors. A 3 percent decline from an average sellingL price of about $30 might not seem like much to consumers, but it's enough to' hurt the bottom line for manufacturers.a  D Merger proponents at HP argue that the best way to increase sales ofI higher-end, more lucrative printing and imaging products is to buy Compaqg? and use that as a springboard to raise HP's overall presence ine
 corporations.3  D On the other hand, Walter Hewlett might not be entirely wrong in hisL optimism about HP's printing on a standalone basis. Among the five companiesI in the Salomon report, HP was the only one able to charge more for inkjetwJ consumables; according to the NPD/Salomon data, the average price for HP's. inkjet consumables rose 9 percent in December.  H In press releases and filings with the SEC, Hewlett paints HP's printingG business as a crown jewel that could be buried by a merger with Compaq.e  A "The proposed merger would significantly dilute Hewlett-Packard'snK stockholders' interest in the profitable imaging and printing business, andrL significantly increase their exposure to an unprofitable PC business," readsK the first line of Hewlett's summary, which goes on to describe HP's imaging.J and printing unit as a "preeminent" business that would lose attention and resources in a Compaq merger.o  * The truth may lie somewhere in the middle.   Printing holds up2H Few industry observers would argue with HP executives' plan to move intoF younger, higher-margin businesses such as color printers for corporateI networks and digital imaging for consumers. But Hewlett believes HP has a1L better chance without Compaq. And many analysts point to HP's rivals as goodI examples of how printer companies can be successful without selling otherm4 enterprise products outside of printing and imaging.  J Lexmark in recent years gained share in midrange, networked printers afterL being spun off from IBM in 1991 and going public in 1995. And although HP isH the single largest printer maker, other major printer vendors--includingK Xerox and Ricoh in lasers, Epson, Lexmark and Brother in inkjets, and CanoniF in both--have significant market shares despite being niche companies.  G But the future of the printing industry is changing, said Greg Wallace,.L director of marketing for HP's imaging and printing unit. "Five years ago, aA static (printer) play worked," he said. "Today, it's running intos turbulence."  I Companies can't count on printer profits forever, warns Andrade. "I don't-I think the printer is going to be such a great business down the road," heeI said. "It is following behind the PC trend," in which minimal differencespH between different companies' products led first to consumers focusing on( price and then to aggressive price wars.  L He may have a point. Traditional PC-based desktop printing, which fuels muchL of HP's printer-related business, has been hurt in recent quarters by profitE declines due to price wars, especially in low-end printers. OperatingyJ margins for HP's printing and imaging unit in the third quarter dropped toH 8.7 percent, its lowest level dating back to at least February 1999--theK earliest data available under HP's current business structure. The printingiJ and imaging division's fourth-quarter profit margin was 10.5 percent, downI from 12.6 percent in the same period a year earlier. Lexmark, one of HP'sfF main rivals at the low end of the market, recently reported 2001 grossG margin of 31.5 percent on an operational basis, down from 33 percent inu 2000.o  L Lexmark executives said they expect profit margins to improve this year. AndK HP this week said it will report better-than-expected first-quarter resultsaF and cited improved consumer demand for imaging and printing as a major factor in the improvement.  L NPD's data for the overall industry shows average prices for inkjet printersJ have fallen or stayed flat in 10 of the past 12 quarters, and have droppedI 32 percent since the first quarter of 1999. Laser printers have become 27 F percent cheaper. Inkjet cartridge prices rose 19 percent over the sameI period; but except for HP, the biggest makers of printers have seen lower - prices for printer supplies in recent months.i  G The largest vendors saw their inkjet cartridge sales rise 23 percent in I December, much lower growth than the 44 percent seen in November, SalomondK Smith Barney analyst Jonathan Rosenzweig said in a recent report. "The truerJ trajectory apparently was more sluggish than anticipated, exacerbating theB slowdown in production and hindering gross margins in the period," Rosenzweig wrote.i  
 Murky future? L Some observers have argued that the Internet eventually will reduce the needF for printing, although that hasn't happened yet, said Ken Weilerstein,H research director with Gartner Group. "Until we really have a paper-likeG display technology, I don't think there's going to be a huge impact" on- supply sales, he said.  K But the long-term trends for much of the printer business aren't promising,rI said Marco Boer, consulting partner with IT Strategies. Demand is slowingiK for traditional inkjet printers and black-and-white laser printers, largelybJ because printers can last 10 years or more. Although the printing industryG has traditionally made its profits on cartridge, paper and toner sales, 1 people are starting to print less, Boer believes.t  L "It's going to be pretty hard to get that growth back unless they can reallyK get that digital-photo market going," Boer said. "I think it will be tough.tH The usage of color printing is not a natural for people who mostly printL Word documents...Not all of us are graphic artists. How much color toner are people really going to use?"  L Analysts generally give HP credit for pointing its printing and imaging unitI in the right direction. The company is correct in looking at new, broaderoL markets for growth, said Weilerstein, although he added that HP's technology> for color workgroup printers has fallen behind that of rivals.  L A strong brand has helped offset that technology lag, but HP can't afford toI let it slide, and the danger is that the difficulties of absorbing Compaq-I will distract HP's executives and divert money needed in printer researchm- and development, Weilerstein and others said.e  E "There'll be an obvious temptation to invest profits from the printertL business into other parts of HP rather than putting it back into the printerL business," Weilerstein said. "To some extent, that's going on already, but a% Compaq merger could accelerate that."n  F HP disagrees. Compaq's merger won't be a distraction, Wallace said. IfL anything, adding Compaq would help, he said, because it would strengthen theJ rest of HP, thus easing the pressure on the imaging and printing business.  I William Hewlett and his allies, of course, say absorbing Compaq will hurtlH the other businesses rather than help them. Yet regardless of how CompaqI will affect the profitability of HP as a whole, Wallace argues the CompaqrL merger will help strategically because it lets HP speed up adoption not only< of digital images but also network printers in corporations.  L Approval of the HP-Compaq deal will largely rest on how people think it willJ affect HP's printing and imaging business--the most profitable division in either company.r  J A quick glance at HP's financials highlights the importance of imaging andL printing. That segment earned almost $2 billion in the fourth quarter, whichL was more than HP's operating profit as a whole. Even in a good quarter, suchA as the fourth quarter of 2000, printers in recent years have beeneD responsible for almost two-thirds of the company's operating income.  L But there is a drag on the division, and Hewlett argues a merger with CompaqB will increase it. Analysts expressed a similar fear: "I think he's( absolutely right about that," Boer said.  D Some analysts in recent years have gone so far as to suggest that HPJ concentrate entirely on printing and imaging, but HP Chief Executive CarlyH Fiorina has repeatedly rebuffed the idea of shedding other businesses inG favor of printing. Some critics say the reluctance comes from corporatehK ego--Fiorina didn't join HP to become the CEO of a printer company--but sheXI defends the vision of HP as a diverse company offering as much breadth as I IBM. HP's other business will help the printing division in the long run,  Fiorina has often said.d  L "We looked at focusing solely on our imaging and printing franchise, as someH have suggested, but the consequences were unacceptable," Fiorina told an9 audience Monday at a Goldman Sachs investment conference.s  K "Digital publishing...requires more than a great print engine and toner anda@ ink...Digital publishing is also about digital content creation,C distribution and transformation; (it's) the metamorphosis of what'shI currently a physical process into a digital, networked process. Capturing K this opportunity requires servers, storage and network-management software,  and professional services."6  L But Compaq in the past tried selling laser printers in conjunction with PCs,K and it eventually gave up on the idea because sales of one had little to dosL with the other, said William Gott, president of printer market research firmK VM Strategies and editor of an industry newsletter, Printer Market Monitor.eL Offering PCs and networking hardware doesn't have as much impact on printersK as HP executives believe, Gott said. "Certainly it helps, but it's probably  not a necessity," he said.  K HP doesn't need Compaq to drive growth in printers--the merger would simplye! make things easier, Wallace said.b  I "Could we do it without this merger? Yeah," Wallace said. "Could we do ith* faster and better with it? We believe so."  8 News.com's Stephen Shankland contributed to this report.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:23:48 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>c# Subject: Re: Microsoft's financials / Message-ID: <29S88.37$Jh4.234@news.cpqcorp.net>U  J The bottom line on this is that Microsoft is taking advantage of somethingI quite legal, to in effect allow them to keep their employee salaries low.3K The numbers quoted are for the most part - fantasy.  The problem is that ifeI the laws were changed to stop MS (and many others) from this practice, iteF would not have the effect of having Microsoft increase the pay of it's employees by the same amount.,  I In any case, Microsoft may have decided to abuse the idea, but the use ofdL options to reward, and retain employees is very widespread.  Of course, they? are only useful if the companies share price continues to grow.o  K But Bill Parish is way out there with the people who believe that the QueenvF of England and the Pope are part of a secret world order that runs the% world.  Only substitute Bill and Tom.d   _Fredr    = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C61C0BB.2EED0602@videotron.ca>...  >Rick Turner wrote: I >> Bill Parish has been at this for, oh, a few years now.  No one in Wall-+ >> Street seems to be taking him seriously.0 >rE >His web site does have a few articles from various US newspapers who:L >essentially say that he may be onto something even though his discourse may be exagerated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:35:47 +0100o1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>.# Subject: Re: Microsoft's financials 5 Message-ID: <3C640C73.DF4728FC@swissonline.delete.ch>.  D I suggest that anyone interested in this should check out the Motley Fool article at D http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulemaker/2000/rulemaker000217.htm.     The first two paragraphs are-t  E "Forget Windows 2000. As far as I can tell, the single most lucrativeiB product Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) sells is its own stock. MicrosoftG receives almost as much cash inflow from the stock market as it does bym' selling goods and services. Here's how:   F "Basically, Microsoft receives cash by issuing employee stock options,@ after which the company then receives billions of dollars in taxE deductions from the IRS for doing so. Add in the warrants it sells onuH its own stock, and the company made over $5 billion off the stock marketF last year (fiscal year ended July 1999), tax-free. For comparison, itsH after-tax net income was only $7.8 billion. Microsoft may not be much in@ the programming department, but its accountants are impressive."    D This article was written in year 2000 and I vaguely recall somethingA about a change of practice being called for.  Whether things have $ changed or not, I really don't know.  G What Microsoft is doing as regards bonuses paid as stock options may beiA legal it can be hell on employees.  Just ask those who worked forcG dot-coms and received stock options instead of real money and who foundo> the options to be worthless after the dot-com became dot-bomb.  H IIRC the IRS are also rather unhappy about the scheme because they don'tG get their cut of the value/amount when it is paid.  If the value of theeH option is $50 at the time of payment and the person gets 10,000 o fthem,G then the IRS would like its portion of that $50,000 rather than have tol, take a chance on MSFT stok going up or down.  E Microsoft's failure to pay a dividend has recently been reported.  InrH particular the report noted that not only do normal shareholders not getC any return but the IRS is not getting the tax that Mr Gates (et al)m4 would be required to pay under normal circumstances.     further comments below ...     Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > L > The bottom line on this is that Microsoft is taking advantage of somethingK > quite legal, to in effect allow them to keep their employee salaries low.eM > The numbers quoted are for the most part - fantasy.  The problem is that ifiK > the laws were changed to stop MS (and many others) from this practice, itnH > would not have the effect of having Microsoft increase the pay of it's > employees by the same amount.c  F And why is this a problem ?  The only people directly impacted by this> would be Microsoft having to pay higher money to retain staff.  rK > In any case, Microsoft may have decided to abuse the idea, but the use ofMN > options to reward, and retain employees is very widespread.  Of course, theyA > are only useful if the companies share price continues to grow.i > M > But Bill Parish is way out there with the people who believe that the QueenlH > of England and the Pope are part of a secret world order that runs the' > world.  Only substitute Bill and Tom.-  F It's nice to see that the ability of posters to this newsgroup to makeE wild assertions without supporting evidence is still alive and well. d/ And indeed is being practised by Compaq people.n     John McLeann   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 08:56:49 GMTq3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)n Subject: Re: News servers 0 Message-ID: <a403sh$hp1$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  t In article <slrna66e1t.21f.forMsytAhm@plague.bogus.com>, forMsytAhm@optusShom.com.aKu (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth) writes:K >What do people use as a news server ? Seems that the options are anu-news,tL >dnews or to crank up a Linux box and use INN. Of course it needs to be open> >source and free otherwise I'd just tell 'em to go with dnews.  J We use ANU-NEWS as a server and are quite happy with it. Once it is sat up it is just working.s  J >Anticipating that they (client) wants to go with anu-news, which is theirE >preferred option so far, does anyone  have a set of annotated sampled >configuration files ?  G The clients here are mostly Desktops. No problems so far with ANU-NEWS.sG There is a dedicated newsgroup for ANU-NEWS. Not much traffic there but ( in case you need it it will always help.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanno  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 05:58:41 -0600d- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)g Subject: Re: News serversn3 Message-ID: <O2hYdjnrbubX@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  f In article <a403sh$hp1$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:  I > There is a dedicated newsgroup for ANU-NEWS. Not much traffic there buta* > in case you need it it will always help.   Thanks for the pointer.o  G Actually the phrase would be not much _relevant_ traffic.  For the lastnG 50 days I found 27 pieces of the spam in that newsgroup on the server IiB use.  Well, actually, I can't tell for sure that the ones in other character sets were spam :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 00:28:30 +1100= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>n Subject: Re: News serversl" Message-ID: <dqj04a.2ci.ln@really>  @ "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de> wrote in message* news:a403sh$hp1$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de...: > In article <slrna66e1t.21f.forMsytAhm@plague.bogus.com>,; forMsytAhm@optusShom.com.aKu (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth) writes:eC > >What do people use as a news server ? Seems that the options aree	 anu-news,'I > >dnews or to crank up a Linux box and use INN. Of course it needs to be" open@ > >source and free otherwise I'd just tell 'em to go with dnews. >eL > We use ANU-NEWS as a server and are quite happy with it. Once it is sat up > it is just working.u  L I've been having a play with it here at home. It's not as intimidating as itG looks at first read of the doco. I seem to have it working here OK so Ic$ _shouldn't_ have to many Issues(tm).   >e	 [deletia]  >hI > The clients here are mostly Desktops. No problems so far with ANU-NEWS. I > There is a dedicated newsgroup for ANU-NEWS. Not much traffic there butu* > in case you need it it will always help.  L I had a trawl through the mailing list archive and most of my questions wereJ answered there. The rest, I _think_ I've managed to work out. I'll test itH bit more over the weekend. The newsgroup has only had a bunch of ChineseJ crap posted to it over the past few weeks which is what prompted me to ask  here. Ta for the pointer anyway.   Ooroo 	 Mark F...    >n
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanng >dJ > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:49:22 +01004 From: "Gerrit Woertman" <gerrit.woertman@compaq.com>Q Subject: NLCUG - SECURITY event; April-18, Utrecht, Netherlands; pre-announcementn/ Message-ID: <pkT88.45$Jh4.331@news.cpqcorp.net>t   hi,   G on April, 18, NLCUG, the combination of DECUS and BENTUG, will have its + spring meeting in Utrecht, the Netherlands. % This time the topic will be security.g/ In the morning we will have 2 plenary sessions:t - the secret of the @c - DEFCON-9 storyL In the afternoon we will have 3 tracks: NSK, OpenVMS/Tru64, Windows/wireless  D Next week the program will be published on our website: www.nlcug.nl Further info at nlcug@wispa.nl   regards, Gerrit Woertman   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 02:44:34 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>% Subject: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECKr@ Message-ID: <20020208104434.97235.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>  	 Hi peoplep  ! Anyone have an idea about this ? e& My Oracle RDB is 7.0-31 and SQLSRV 7.1    6 ------------EVENT BEGIN:  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8 2002 06:58:23.832-------------r6 %SQLSRV-I-EVENT_LOG, event logged at line 8106 in file CMD.C;1 6 %SQLSRV-E-EXECFAILMUTEX, MONITOR TERMINATING: executor BDA014000P failed while ha olding mutex$ %SQLSRV-I-SERVICENAME, Service : BDA %SQLSRV-I-LOGFILE, Log file :c1 SYS$COMMON:[RDB$ORACLE]SQS_C16001_BDA014000P.LOG;t6 ------------EVENT END  :  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8 2002 06:58:23.832-------------e    1 %DBS-F-BUGCHECK: bugcheck dump will be written ton SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]SQS_C16001 _SQLSRV_71.DMP;15 %SQLSRV-E-INTERNAL, An internal error was encounteredr     Regardsm   FC n   =====t ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazila fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?1 Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!e http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:23:42 -0500t1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>w) Subject: Re: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECKo2 Message-ID: <3C63C34E.B8FBAC26@firstdbasource.com>   Fabio,   give us some more details like:t& $SEARCH *.DMP exception /window=(2,20)  <  EXECFAILMUTEX,  MONITOR TERMINATING: executor <text> failed while holding mutexd  7 Explanation: An executor process failed while holding a-: SQL/Services shared memory mutex. The SQL/Services monitor8 process wrote a bugcheck dump, then terminated, shutting down the server.  ; User Action: This is an internal error. Please contact yourn; Oracle support representative for assistance. Please retainh< copies of any log and dump files generated coincident to the error. o   ---    Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comn Sr. Consultant   Fabio Cardoso wrote: >  > Hi peoplea > " > Anyone have an idea about this ?( > My Oracle RDB is 7.0-31 and SQLSRV 7.1 > 8 > ------------EVENT BEGIN:  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8 2002 > 06:58:23.832-------------r8 > %SQLSRV-I-EVENT_LOG, event logged at line 8106 in file	 > CMD.C;1a8 > %SQLSRV-E-EXECFAILMUTEX, MONITOR TERMINATING: executor > BDA014000P failed while ho > olding mutex& > %SQLSRV-I-SERVICENAME, Service : BDA > %SQLSRV-I-LOGFILE, Log file :a3 > SYS$COMMON:[RDB$ORACLE]SQS_C16001_BDA014000P.LOG;e8 > ------------EVENT END  :  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8 2002 > 06:58:23.832-------------u > 3 > %DBS-F-BUGCHECK: bugcheck dump will be written toe  > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]SQS_C16001 > _SQLSRV_71.DMP;17 > %SQLSRV-E-INTERNAL, An internal error was encounterede > 	 > Regardst >  > FC >  > =====h > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazil, > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?3 > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!e > http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 05:15:15 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: Re: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECKl@ Message-ID: <20020208131515.92617.qmail@web20207.mail.yahoo.com>   Michaela  1 I have just this in the .DMP file with the searchs results you asked for...  F **********************************************************************2 ******SECTION HEADER: Last exceptions raised, most recent first*******oF **********************************************************************5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 u
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 a
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 u
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 i
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 r
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 m
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 d
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 p
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738  
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 s
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000C6438: SQLSRV_MON + 000B6438 P
 (00746552)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 000F2B50: SQLSRV_MON + 000E2B50  
 (00928592)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 h
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 b
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738  
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 e
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 n
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 a
 (00411448)5    **** UTL_RAISE at 00074738: SQLSRV_MON + 00064738 s
 (00411448)       Regardsa   FC n6 --- Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote: > Fabio, > ! > give us some more details like:a( > $SEARCH *.DMP exception /window=(2,20) > 0 >  EXECFAILMUTEX,  MONITOR TERMINATING: executor > <text> failedn > while holding mutext > / > Explanation: An executor process failed whilel > holding a 4 > SQL/Services shared memory mutex. The SQL/Services	 > monitore1 > process wrote a bugcheck dump, then terminated, 
 > shutting > down the server. > 0 > User Action: This is an internal error. Please > contact your6 > Oracle support representative for assistance. Please > retain, > copies of any log and dump files generated > coincident to theo	 > error. a >  > ---  > 
 > Regards, >  > Michael Austin > First DBA Source, Inc. --  > http://www.firstdbasource.comd > Sr. Consultant >  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > 
 > > Hi people  > > $ > > Anyone have an idea about this ?* > > My Oracle RDB is 7.0-31 and SQLSRV 7.1 > > 5 > > ------------EVENT BEGIN:  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8e > 2002 > > 06:58:23.832-------------g5 > > %SQLSRV-I-EVENT_LOG, event logged at line 8106 ins > file > > CMD.C;1c1 > > %SQLSRV-E-EXECFAILMUTEX, MONITOR TERMINATING:?
 > executor > > BDA014000P failed while hk > > olding mutex( > > %SQLSRV-I-SERVICENAME, Service : BDA! > > %SQLSRV-I-LOGFILE, Log file :25 > > SYS$COMMON:[RDB$ORACLE]SQS_C16001_BDA014000P.LOG;o5 > > ------------EVENT END  :  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8g > 2002 > > 06:58:23.832-------------t > > 5 > > %DBS-F-BUGCHECK: bugcheck dump will be written toa" > > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]SQS_C16001 > > _SQLSRV_71.DMP;1- > > %SQLSRV-E-INTERNAL, An internal error wasr
 > encounteredr > >  > > Regardsn > >  > > FC > > 	 > > =====  > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilf > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > > 6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?5 > > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!O > > http://greetings.yahoo.com >      =====s ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilh fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?1 Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!D http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 05:16:49 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>) Subject: Re: Oracle RDB SQLSRV - BUGCHECKe@ Message-ID: <20020208131649.84518.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>   Michaeln    ( Do you want the complete .DMP file ?????   FC a6 --- Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote: > Fabio, > ! > give us some more details like:a( > $SEARCH *.DMP exception /window=(2,20) > 0 >  EXECFAILMUTEX,  MONITOR TERMINATING: executor > <text> failedt > while holding mutext > / > Explanation: An executor process failed whiley > holding ae4 > SQL/Services shared memory mutex. The SQL/Services	 > monitor11 > process wrote a bugcheck dump, then terminated,e
 > shutting > down the server. > 0 > User Action: This is an internal error. Please > contact your6 > Oracle support representative for assistance. Please > retain, > copies of any log and dump files generated > coincident to the 	 > error.   >  > ---  > 
 > Regards, >  > Michael Austin > First DBA Source, Inc. --e > http://www.firstdbasource.com  > Sr. Consultant >  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > 
 > > Hi peopled > > $ > > Anyone have an idea about this ?* > > My Oracle RDB is 7.0-31 and SQLSRV 7.1 > > 5 > > ------------EVENT BEGIN:  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8x > 2002 > > 06:58:23.832-------------e5 > > %SQLSRV-I-EVENT_LOG, event logged at line 8106 inc > file > > CMD.C;1 1 > > %SQLSRV-E-EXECFAILMUTEX, MONITOR TERMINATING: 
 > executor > > BDA014000P failed while h  > > olding mutex( > > %SQLSRV-I-SERVICENAME, Service : BDA! > > %SQLSRV-I-LOGFILE, Log file : 5 > > SYS$COMMON:[RDB$ORACLE]SQS_C16001_BDA014000P.LOG;i5 > > ------------EVENT END  :  EVENT_LOG at Fri Feb  8i > 2002 > > 06:58:23.832-------------u > > 5 > > %DBS-F-BUGCHECK: bugcheck dump will be written toi" > > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]SQS_C16001 > > _SQLSRV_71.DMP;1- > > %SQLSRV-E-INTERNAL, An internal error was 
 > encountereda > >  > > Regardsp > >  > > FC > > 	 > > =====y > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazila > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > > 6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?5 > > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!  > > http://greetings.yahoo.com >      =====p ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilh fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?1 Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!i http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:04:48 +04004 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>E Subject: Problem connecting via X25 with different throughput classess4 Message-ID: <6714056249.20020208120448@ncc.volga.ru>   Hello gurus,  C   After upgrading from (VMS6.2/AXP + DECnet Phase IV + X25 client +eE DEMSA as connector) to (VMS7.3 + DECnet Phase V + X25 + Cisco 2651 as E connector) we encountered strange problem. Our incoming throughput isi> 9600. If anybody tries to connect (for example, connect as X29> terminal) with outgoing throughput class 9600, everything goesE normally. But with other outgoing throughput class (we tried 2400 andmD 4800) connection fails with diagnostic code 9 on the terminal' side.! On Alpha we see following messagee  9 Event: Port Terminated from: Node LOCAL:.NCC2 X25 Access,r-         at: 2002-02-05-11:17:30.537+04:00IinfbH         Client=Generic Client User Process "Pid=00000439 Device=NWA7:",          Type=Switched, i         State=Cleared, p!         Call Direction=Incoming, w7         Call Association=X25 Access Filter X29_ATM_08,  *         Target DTE Address=1111111111111, +         Calling DTE Address=2222222222222, m)         Protocol Identifier='01000000'H, a         Channel=1022, (         Outgoing Throughput Class=2400, (         Incoming Throughput Class=9600,          Reverse Charging=True, ,(         Redirect Reason=Not Redirected, #         Fast Select=Not Specified, s.         DTE=X25 Protocol DTE LLC2_DTE_CISCO2, $         DTE Class=LLC2-CLASS-CISCO2,:         Reference Time=2002-02-05-11:17:29.644+04:00Iinf,           Data Octets Received=0,          Data Octets Sent=0,          PDUs Received=0, r         PDUs Sent=0, O         Segments Received=0, r         Segments Sent=0h7         eventUid   F1B82725-1A29-11D6-B70B-AA0004000204r7         entityUid  AA0C8B55-1887-11D6-8429-AA0004000204n7         streamUid  B2A794E9-1887-11D6-84DC-AA0004000204e  B  I guess I should change some parameter, but don't have idea which one.D   And while we on the topic, we noticed strange behaviour of the X25C product. When we try to restart X25, process X25$APPLD doesn't exit-F but looping somewhere. The same story with application processes whichB use X25 API. These processes are unstoppable. STOP/ID doesn't cureA them. I set them priority to 0 and let them run if I can't reboot ; immediately, but eventually they raise their priority to 16i" themselves. Does anybody see that?   Thank you.   --  
 Best regards, 	  Valentin   valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:32:18 +0100-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e Subject: Re: Problem with smtp. ' Message-ID: <3C640BA2.11A10FD5@aaa.com>O  * Some new information on the smtp inssue...    6 The operator.log just have the (usual) messages like :7 [First a restart of the smtp service, then a request tod port 25 from localhost]N  : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-FEB-2002 09:32:55.26  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on IRVINE% > INTERnet ACP Deactivate SMTP Serverm > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-FEB-2002 09:38:02.43  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on IRVINE# > INTERnet ACP Activate SMTP Server' >e: > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM   7-FEB-2002 09:52:18.21  %%%%%%%%%%%& > Message from user INTERnet on IRVINEI > INTERnet ACP SMTP Accept Request from Host: 127.0.0.1        Port: 4419y    4 This request created the follwing entry in account :/ [Note the "Start time" and the timestamp above]r   > NETWORK Process Termination  > ---------------------------pP > Username:          TCPIP$SMTP        UIC:               [TCPIP$AUX,TCPIP$SMTP]Q > Account:           TCPIP             Finish time:        7-FEB-2002 09:58:20.58oQ > Process ID:        00002D09          Start time:         7-FEB-2002 09:52:18.20cQ > Owner ID:                            Elapsed time:                0 00:06:02.37eQ > Terminal name:                       Processor time:              0 00:00:00.16n; > Remote node addr:                    Priority:          8rB > Remote node name:                    Privilege <31-00>: 00108000B > Remote ID:                           Privilege <63-32>: 00000000 > Remote full name: B > Queue entry:                         Final status code: 100020EC
 > Queue name:a > Job name:kT > Final status text: %SYSTEM-F-LINKDISCON, network partner disconnected logical link  D > Page faults:              535        Direct IO:                250D > Page fault reads:          78        Buffered IO:              432D > Peak working set:        5200        Volumes mounted:            0D > Peak page file:        176848        Images executed:            4    @ The LINKDISCON was probably from disconecting the telnet sessionC where we did "telnet 127.0.0.1/port=25". It just hang and we had too8 click the "connect" icon in VT emulator and login again.  ; And as I sad before, nothing in the RUN.LOG. Not even after-F defining TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_DEBUG and TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_DEBUG, both to "1".  E The file SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOCAL_ALIASES.TXT do not 5 exist. (Not on my reference (working) system either.)   ' Well, we are more or less stuck here...    Jan-Erik Sderholm.F   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 06:24:42 -0800:( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)$ Subject: Re: Purveyor runs VMS Perl!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202080624.41c432df@posting.google.com>i  [ Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3C62E6E1.136F1F14@gtech.com>...e > Bob Ceculski wrote:mK > > cost was only $900 and it was worth every penny!  unlike the conveluted8N > > unix structures of apache and osu (confs and worse), purveyor had a singleP > > configuration file that could be created and managed from a html session ...5 > > that was it besides a startup and restart com ...  > H > I have not tried Apache on VMS, but on other platforms it has just oneD > configuration file (since they merged srm.conf and access.conf was > merged > into httpd.conf).  > C > You can run OSU with just one configuration file, if you want to.- > ' > OSU can be managed via web-interface.- > = > So those characteristics are not exactly Purveyor specific.: >  > Arne  C I prefer not to edit anything that is based on unix and not on vms!i   > D > PS: Most real VMS people prefer to edit a configution file instead. >     of using a web-interface for management.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:12:43 +0100$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>/ Subject: Re: SDA accepting command line args...M. Message-ID: <9FM88.8$Jh4.163@news.cpqcorp.net>  2 "Mark Reis" <mark@reisources.com> wrote in message7 news:898a0dc8.0202071533.30c4f07d@posting.google.com...R2  > "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet"   HelloV On my Alpha Vms 7.3 	 $ ana/sys:
 mu sh conn givese! %cli-w-syntax, error parsing 'MU'p dir sys$share:*sda.exe/ shows many Sda extensions, but not a mu$sda.exeS  D I do not know what you want to do, but may be you shoud write an SDA8 extension, see a basic example at sys$examples:mbx$sda.c You have a documentation atg@ http://pi-net.dyndns.org/docs/sda_extensions/sda_extensions.html on that subject.   Regards_   Grard   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 07:41:58 -0600C- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y/ Subject: Re: SDA accepting command line args...e3 Message-ID: <7CTQilfshQyF@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  e In article <898a0dc8.0202071533.30c4f07d@posting.google.com>, mark@reisources.com (Mark Reis) writes:C4 > The following doesn't work for the obvious reason:1 > "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet"2 >   B    Are you sure you don't want a Multinet show connection comand? H    Unless you have some SDA extendsion, that's a DCL command, not an SDA    command.s  (    $pipe mu sh conn | sea sys$input inet      c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 14:03:37 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com/ Subject: Re: SDA accepting command line args...e: Message-ID: <OF3EB936D0.924EF41B-ON00256B5A.004D1684@btyp>  J I assumed that was the 'obvious reason' which then led on to the secondaryC question, unless I've given the benefit of the doubt wrong. I guess G actually showing an SDA command which didn't work would have saved somev
 confusion.   Cheers   Steve Sl        A koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) on 02/08/2002 01:41:58 PMt    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:-I From:      koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler), 8 February 2002, 1:41             p.m.A  & Re: SDA accepting command line args...    = In article <898a0dc8.0202071533.30c4f07d@posting.google.com>,,' mark@reisources.com (Mark Reis) writes:f4 > The following doesn't work for the obvious reason:1 > "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet"i >b  A    Are you sure you don't want a Multinet show connection comand?cH    Unless you have some SDA extendsion, that's a DCL command, not an SDA    command.L  (    $pipe mu sh conn | sea sys$input inet              F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has_G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,e$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message..  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.*  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,oD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 02 08:22:33 PST_ From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.com / Subject: Re: SDA accepting command line args...8( Message-ID: <CmMzfhU6VbWW@cpva.saic.com>  3 In article <7CTQilfshQyF@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:g > In article <898a0dc8.0202071533.30c4f07d@posting.google.com>, mark@reisources.com (Mark Reis) writes:L5 >> The following doesn't work for the obvious reason:02 >> "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet" >> _ > D >    Are you sure you don't want a Multinet show connection comand? J >    Unless you have some SDA extendsion, that's a DCL command, not an SDA
 >    command.  > * >    $pipe mu sh conn | sea sys$input inet >  >    L  % $ define mu$sda multinet:multinet$sda  $ analyze/system  " OpenVMS (TM) Alpha system analyzer  P %SDA-W-SDALINKMISM, link time of SYS$BASE_IMAGE built into SDA$SHARE ( 8-JAN-19) SDA> mu loadP %SDA-I-READSYM, 1297 symbols read from MULTINET_COMMON_ROOT:[MULTINET]MULTINET.6< %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:INETDRIVER.EXE; %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:UCXDRIVER.EXE3< %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:PWIPDRIVER.EXE; %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:NTYDRIVER.EXES; %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:RCDDRIVER.EXEa; %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:RMTDRIVER.EXE ; %MNET-I-READSYM, 0 symbols read from MULTINET:LAVDRIVER.EXESP %MNET-I-READSYM, 1577 symbols read from MULTINET_COMMON_ROOT:[MULTINET]MULTINET3P %MNET-I-READSYM, 230 symbols read from MULTINET_COMMON_ROOT:[MULTINET.LOADABLE_7 SDA> mu show connl   MultiNet active connections:  P Pro  Local Address  Lport Remote Address  Rport State   UCB     Device   SocketXP --- --------------- ----- --------------- ----- ----- -------- -------- -------- [...]l  5 the SDA hook is present in the Multinet distribution.t   -- o - Jimt   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 02 09:48:48 PSTt From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.como/ Subject: Re: SDA accepting command line args...u( Message-ID: <piYPd$ieevV5@cpva.saic.com>  = In article <898a0dc8.0202071533.30c4f07d@posting.google.com>, (  mark@reisources.com (Mark Reis) writes:4 > The following doesn't work for the obvious reason:1 > "$pipe anal/sys mu sh conn |sea sys$input inet"E > P > Does anybody know of a workaround that allows SDA to accept command line args? >  > Thanks in advance.   $ create mu_sda.init mu show conn ^Z3 $ pipe define/user mu$sda multinet:multinet$sda ; -c+        define/user sda$init mu_sda.init ; -i        analyze/system | -V        sear sys$pipe INET   L Interactively you'll have to supply a ctrl-z or "exit"; in batch it'll exit. -- o - Jim-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:30:37 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>p( Subject: Re: setting the record straight/ Message-ID: <vfS88.38$Jh4.269@news.cpqcorp.net>-  K Alan Greig wrote in message <4h606ugnub83sbecbmqmeoepv9n9trpnrn@4ax.com>... 5 >On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:04:44 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"  > F >Even if its entirely private to VMS engineering I would hope that, in1 >reality, a "Plan B" has at least been discussed.= >=  G What's to discuss?  The work we are doing will help us a little farther_D along towards being not tied to an architecture... but any change inF direction still would require major work - just in compilers alone forF example.  VMS can't just grab a copy of GCC and recompile.  If ItaniumL tubes, and I would not bet on it, then we'll have to deal with it.  There is> not much that can be done *now* that would make it any easier.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:38:07 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>F( Subject: Re: setting the record straight/ Message-ID: <tmS88.39$Jh4.256@news.cpqcorp.net>O  A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3C609249.2306B8C8@fsi.net>...@ >2A >Are those permanent positions, or will they go away once the new # >product(s) is(are) up and running?n >a  K Yes and no.  There will be some incremental long-term, and some incrementale# short term.  Which does make sense.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:41:39 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: setting the record straightA Message-ID: <n5U88.30230$Mo3.1883219@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:vfS88.38$Jh4.269@news.cpqcorp.net...: >i > Alan Greig wrote in message / <4h606ugnub83sbecbmqmeoepv9n9trpnrn@4ax.com>...o7 > >On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 11:04:44 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"u > >lH > >Even if its entirely private to VMS engineering I would hope that, in3 > >reality, a "Plan B" has at least been discussed.  > >p >w > What's to discuss?  H A great deal less now than there should have been prior to the June 25thG announcement.  That's the point:  an undamaged Alpha until such time asSL Itanic's future was in a great deal less doubt *was* the obvious Plan B (and not just for VMS).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:02:05 +0100;1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>G( Subject: Re: setting the record straight5 Message-ID: <3C64129D.7C2D075A@swissonline.delete.ch>i   Bill Todd wrote: > B > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ > news:vfS88.38$Jh4.269@news.cpqcorp.net..._ > >t ...F > >i > > What's to discuss? > J > A great deal less now than there should have been prior to the June 25thI > announcement.  That's the point:  an undamaged Alpha until such time asEN > Itanic's future was in a great deal less doubt *was* the obvious Plan B (and > not just for VMS). >   D Instead we have two companies who are all at sea, and Carly has saidF they have burned their boats.  What she didn't explicitly say was that< they are pinning their hopes on being rescued by the Itanic.  G Having just written this I have the bizarre image of Curly and Carly atCF the front rail of the ship.  No not the scene with the sunshine on theD very calm Atlantic, more like the internet image of skeletons on the ocean floor.     John McLeanB   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:31:15 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>K Subject: Re: Snippet from USA today on Land Warrior digital-fighting systeme- Message-ID: <87d6zgodj0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  $ John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> writes:  @ > "Its Microsoft 2000 software still has bugs but is nearing the8 > project goal of 10 days of use without breaking down."  0 So they have got the "0" and only the "1" to go?   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.D@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:24:57 +0100r6 From: Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>* Subject: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?< Message-ID: <00A0940A.F05626B2.5@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>  L    David Jones of Ohio State University currently provides a VMS SSH server, using the SSH 1.5 protocol, seee  ?                http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~JONESD/ssh/DOC/   E    With this server running, it is not possible to connect to the VMSm< machine from remote clients expecting SSH2-based encryption.  D    Does anyone know, if and when an SSH 2.0 based SSH server for VMS will be available?  
    Greetings,l                 Horst Drechsel     --M  ****************************************************************************u)   Horst Drechsel                         uL   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deL   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15L   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22*   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyM  ****************************************************************************e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:23:31 +0100$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch>. Subject: Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?% Message-ID: <3c639914$1@news.post.ch>D  J I think, that it is actually a shame, that Compaq not yet offered SSH as aI real product. We indented to implement a company wide SSH infrastructure.u/ Hasn't really a point, when VMS cannot join it.,   regards5   Jakobe  I "Horst Drechsel" <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> schrieb im Newsbeitragw6 news:00A0940A.F05626B2.5@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de... > F >    David Jones of Ohio State University currently provides a VMS SSH server, ! > using the SSH 1.5 protocol, seei >tA >                http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~JONESD/ssh/DOC/o > G >    With this server running, it is not possible to connect to the VMS-> > machine from remote clients expecting SSH2-based encryption. >-F >    Does anyone know, if and when an SSH 2.0 based SSH server for VMS > will be available? >e >    Greetings,A  >                 Horst Drechsel >r >i > -- > L **************************************************************************** >   Horst Drechsel >   Dr. Remeis Observatory# drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de = >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone:s +49-951-95222-15= >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax:% +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, Germany >rL ****************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:15:19 GMTNL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"). Subject: Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?8 Message-ID: <00A093CE.EB3484E4@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  u In article <00A0940A.F05626B2.5@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>, Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> writes:  >CM >   David Jones of Ohio State University currently provides a VMS SSH server,F  >using the SSH 1.5 protocol, see >0@ >               http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~JONESD/ssh/DOC/ >BF >   With this server running, it is not possible to connect to the VMS= >machine from remote clients expecting SSH2-based encryption.  > E >   Does anyone know, if and when an SSH 2.0 based SSH server for VMS  >will be available?t  / Multinet 4.4 is shipping now, and includes one.   G I've heard that Compaq has no plans to put one in TCP/IP servcies, and iG Dave Jones has no plans to upgrade to SSH 2.0.  Maybe Process could put @ SSH on top of TCP/IP services and sell it as a separate product.   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================a0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================C   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:21:01 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>t. Subject: RE: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE9CB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Jakob,  B As previously mentioned, Process has released Multinet V4.4 and it includes SSH V2.  
 Reference:* http://www.process.com/tcpip/multinet.html  G MultiNet is a leading TCP/IP for OpenVMS software solution. In additione= to providing a reliable backbone for running mission critical D applications, version 4.4 includes several new product enhancements:       * Secure Shell v2 (SSH)u      * Secure Copy Protocol (SCP)     * DHCP clientd3     * SMTP & FTP accounting and statistical reportst     * Throughput statisticss/     * Enhanced Internet Printing Protocol (IPP)i4     * New features available on OpenVMS 5.5-2 to 7.3     Regardsi  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantc Compaq Canada Corp.s Professional Servicesr Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----) From: Jakob Erber [mailto:erberj@post.ch]o Sent: February 8, 2002 4:24 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp. Subject: Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?    H I think, that it is actually a shame, that Compaq not yet offered SSH as a 9 real product. We indented to implement a company wide SSHu infrastructure. / Hasn't really a point, when VMS cannot join it.t   regardst   Jakoba  = "Horst Drechsel" <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> schrieb im  Newsbeitrag 6 news:00A0940A.F05626B2.5@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de... >aF >    David Jones of Ohio State University currently provides a VMS SSH server,r! > using the SSH 1.5 protocol, see- >-A >                http://kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu/~JONESD/ssh/DOC/d > G >    With this server running, it is not possible to connect to the VMSe> > machine from remote clients expecting SSH2-based encryption. >eF >    Does anyone know, if and when an SSH 2.0 based SSH server for VMS > will be available? >p >    Greetings,c  >                 Horst Drechsel >n >  > -- > H ************************************************************************ **** >   Horst Drechsel >   Dr. Remeis Observatory# drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deh= >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone:, +49-951-95222-15= >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax:p +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, Germany >aH ************************************************************************ ****   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 05:10 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)d. Subject: Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?, Message-ID: <8FEB200205101770@gerg.tamu.edu>  : Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> writes...E }   Does anyone know, if and when an SSH 2.0 based SSH server for VMS: }will be available?u }  }   Greetings, }                Horst Drechsel   C Approximately now. There is one in the version of Multinet that wassD just officially announced a few days ago that is currently shipping.  4 Of course, it isn't free - you have to get Multinet.   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 05:50:42 -0600p- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)c. Subject: RE: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?3 Message-ID: <gZ1cDaZnil+2@eisner.encompasserve.org>s   In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE9CB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:  D > As previously mentioned, Process has released Multinet V4.4 and it > includes SSH V2.  G DECUServe just got SSH2-capable Multinet as part of a mouse upgrade :-)4  G >            <<< EISNER::DRA1:[NOTES$READONLY]NETWORK_ACCESS.NOTE;1 >>>m9 >                           -< Network access projects >- N > ============================================================================N > Note 158.90                 MultiNet Upgrades                       90 of 90N > EISNER::ARNOLD "Steve Arnold, Arnold Consulting,Inc" 5 lines7-FEB-2002 22:49: >                         -< Now running MultiNet V4.4A >-N > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------D > The MultiNet upgrade seems to be a success.  We were down about 15C > minutes, mostly so I could swap mice.  I won't change any setting_I > until tomorrow at the earliest.  Then I'll go to work on enabling SSH2.h   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 06:19:09 -0800o( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski). Subject: Re: SSH 2.0-based SSH server for VMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202080619.371bb069@posting.google.com>u  [ carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote in message news:<8FEB200205101770@gerg.tamu.edu>...r< > Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> writes...G > }   Does anyone know, if and when an SSH 2.0 based SSH server for VMSr > }will be available?. > }  > }   Greetings,! > }                Horst Drechsele > E > Approximately now. There is one in the version of Multinet that wasbF > just officially announced a few days ago that is currently shipping. > 6 > Of course, it isn't free - you have to get Multinet. > 
 > --- Carl  I TCPware for OpenVMS will have it in its next release due out May/June ..._F based on VMS kernel it is superior to multinet/UCX and is the only VMS5 IP stack that runs "true" decnet phase IV over IP ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:47:05 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>06 Subject: Re: The Inq : The OpenVMS on Itanium schedule/ Message-ID: <TuS88.40$Jh4.251@news.cpqcorp.net>w  L I think you give Hoff and I a bit more credit that we deserve.  While we mayK respond more than others in this forum, neither of us is exactly the top ofdJ the food chain in VMS - so I don't think I want to be one of the parents - my role is more of a mid-wife.      = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C601E98.62AA1020@videotron.ca>...t >"John Gemignani, Jr." wrote:yI >> So we don't get to know about baby's first steps?  Or first teeth?  Of ! >> when it says "mama" or "dada"?A >>1 >> Sort of takes the fun out of, don't you think?o >rI >Let the parents (Hoffman and Kleinsorge) announce it when they feel theyo areaG >ready to announce these baby steps. Speculating about it is pointless.I   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:29:17 +0000R( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>6 Subject: Re: The Inq : The OpenVMS on Itanium schedule) Message-ID: <3C640AED.EAEE2669@127.0.0.1>D   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >   > my role is more of a mid-wife.  . We'll be needing one of those in a few months.  H The nice thing is, the first data about the to-be-born hits a VMS system1 and the ante-natal appointments come off an LA75._   -- R( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 13:54:19 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>-3 Subject: The stupidity of granting software patents-. Message-ID: <fMQ88.1422$LL.597@news1.bloor.is>  " British firm hyper over Web patent# With files from Reuters News Agency- Friday, February 8, 2002  F Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargeJ royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that itE invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web.(  J Preliminary arguments begin next week in a New York court between BT GroupH PLC, the British telecommunications giant, and Prodigy Communications, aD U.S. Internet service provider. BT is seeking licence fees from U.S.L Internet service providers -- but not individual surfers -- and is using the$ suit against Prodigy as a test case.  J Hoots of derision from the on-line world greeted BT's claim in mid-2000 toL have invented hyperlinks, which allow Web users to move from one Web page to) another with a single click of the mouse.-  H BT developed a version of hyperlink technology in the late 1970s and was issued a U.S. patent in 1989.z  I The company's critics contend that the hyperlink is such a basic concept,$J with so many parents, that no one entity can legitimately lay claim to it.  K "It's like trying to patent winter," Rick Broadhead, an Internet author ands consultant, said.f  J If it succeeds against Prodigy, BT said, it will launch actions against 16G other Internet service providers in the United States, the only countryw: where it still holds a patent on its hyperlink technology.L "We believe we have a duty to protect our intellectual property and we wouldL expect companies to pay a reasonable royalty based on the revenues that theyA have enjoyed through the use of that intellectual property," a BTt spokeswoman said.h  F Any royalty based on volume of use would be hefty indeed: There are anK estimated 3 billion pages on the Web, each containing several if not dozens0 of hyperlinks.  @ A Prodigy spokeswoman said her firm does not comment on "pending; litigation," but did say the company will contest the case.@  I BT hasn't specified how much it is seeking, but estimates of the possiblesK final tally run into the billions of dollars by the time the patent expires H in 2006. There are tens of billions of connections among the Web's three billion pages.  F Donald Plumley, a partner with law firm Lang Michener in Toronto, saidI Prodigy and other service providers might have to pay retroactive licence G fees dating back to when they first used hyperlink technology, nearly ar decade in most cases.   L Before it collects any fees, BT faces a tough slog in court, made tougher byI irate Internet users, who have pointed to a 33-year-old film that shows aoG Silicon Valley researcher demonstrating a rudimentary hyperlink system.v  C "It's very easy to jump around and make cross-references," StanfordiG University researcher Douglas Englebart says in the footage from a 1968d conference in San Francisco.  K The black-and-white recording, archived on Stanford's Web site, looks to beaC an example of what patent lawyers call "prior art," evidence that an4 discovery predates and thereby invalidates a patent.  F Mr. Plumley said another avenue for the defence would be to argue that@ hyperlinks are not inventive since the idea is "obvious to all."  6 On the Web: sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/1968Demo.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:21:06 -0500g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>D7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentsF, Message-ID: <3C63ECE2.E1A2CE99@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:eH > Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargeL > royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that itG > invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web.s  1 Shouldn't the date be April 1 on that news item ?e   This cannot be true. Can it ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:24:52 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>W7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentst' Message-ID: <3C63EDC4.723686E7@aaa.com>.  1 Sure is, I remember it from the last time in 2000  when it was last made public.n  0 (With the risk of beeing sued by BT, I don't add any URL here :-) )   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > John Smith wrote:lJ > > Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargeN > > royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that itI > > invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web.8 > 3 > Shouldn't the date be April 1 on that news item ?c >  > This cannot be true. Can it ?0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:27:00 -0500u1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>"7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents 2 Message-ID: <3C63EE44.F0801E62@firstdbasource.com>   What morons.     John Smith wrote:n > $ > British firm hyper over Web patent% > With files from Reuters News Agencye > Friday, February 8, 2002 > H > Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargeL > royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that itG > invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web.0 > L > Preliminary arguments begin next week in a New York court between BT GroupJ > PLC, the British telecommunications giant, and Prodigy Communications, aF > U.S. Internet service provider. BT is seeking licence fees from U.S.N > Internet service providers -- but not individual surfers -- and is using the& > suit against Prodigy as a test case. > L > Hoots of derision from the on-line world greeted BT's claim in mid-2000 toN > have invented hyperlinks, which allow Web users to move from one Web page to+ > another with a single click of the mouse.  > J > BT developed a version of hyperlink technology in the late 1970s and was > issued a U.S. patent in 1989.  > K > The company's critics contend that the hyperlink is such a basic concept,eL > with so many parents, that no one entity can legitimately lay claim to it. > M > "It's like trying to patent winter," Rick Broadhead, an Internet author and  > consultant, said.6 > L > If it succeeds against Prodigy, BT said, it will launch actions against 16I > other Internet service providers in the United States, the only country0< > where it still holds a patent on its hyperlink technology.N > "We believe we have a duty to protect our intellectual property and we wouldN > expect companies to pay a reasonable royalty based on the revenues that theyC > have enjoyed through the use of that intellectual property," a BTu > spokeswoman said.  > H > Any royalty based on volume of use would be hefty indeed: There are anM > estimated 3 billion pages on the Web, each containing several if not dozens5 > of hyperlinks. > B > A Prodigy spokeswoman said her firm does not comment on "pending= > litigation," but did say the company will contest the case.  > K > BT hasn't specified how much it is seeking, but estimates of the possibleWM > final tally run into the billions of dollars by the time the patent expiresrJ > in 2006. There are tens of billions of connections among the Web's three > billion pages. > H > Donald Plumley, a partner with law firm Lang Michener in Toronto, saidK > Prodigy and other service providers might have to pay retroactive licence*I > fees dating back to when they first used hyperlink technology, nearly a  > decade in most cases.r > N > Before it collects any fees, BT faces a tough slog in court, made tougher byK > irate Internet users, who have pointed to a 33-year-old film that shows a I > Silicon Valley researcher demonstrating a rudimentary hyperlink system.G > E > "It's very easy to jump around and make cross-references," Stanford*I > University researcher Douglas Englebart says in the footage from a 1968: > conference in San Francisco. > M > The black-and-white recording, archived on Stanford's Web site, looks to bedE > an example of what patent lawyers call "prior art," evidence that aR6 > discovery predates and thereby invalidates a patent. > H > Mr. Plumley said another avenue for the defence would be to argue thatB > hyperlinks are not inventive since the idea is "obvious to all." > 8 > On the Web: sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/1968Demo.html   -- p   Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.como President/Sr. DBA Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:25:40 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>7 Subject: RE: The stupidity of granting software patentse- Message-ID: <0033000051830353000002L032*@MHS>C  4 =0AThe subject line is stupid and isn't supported by the article in the post.  + I'll bet that the network security folks at 0 BT are very unhappy that this hit the newswires.  5 This sort of thing generates vast amounts of ill will=5 among people who lack scruples and are willing to act. accordingly.  9 (One more reason I'm glad I get paid for managing OpenVMSe$ systems instead of some other OS...)   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET=( Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:03 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET3 Subject: The stupidity of granting software patentsq    " British firm hyper over Web patent# With files from Reuters News AgencyA Friday, February 8, 2002  F Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargeH royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that=  itpE invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web.f  H Preliminary arguments begin next week in a New York court between BT Gr= ouprH PLC, the British telecommunications giant, and Prodigy Communications, = auD U.S. Internet service provider. BT is seeking licence fees from U.S.H Internet service providers -- but not individual surfers -- and is usin= g theo$ suit against Prodigy as a test case.  H Hoots of derision from the on-line world greeted BT's claim in mid-2000=  topH have invented hyperlinks, which allow Web users to move from one Web pa= ge to ) another with a single click of the mouse.5  H BT developed a version of hyperlink technology in the late 1970s and wa= s  issued a U.S. patent in 1989.   H The company's critics contend that the hyperlink is such a basic concep= t,H with so many parents, that no one entity can legitimately lay claim to = it.c  H "It's like trying to patent winter," Rick Broadhead, an Internet author=  and consultant, said.a  H If it succeeds against Prodigy, BT said, it will launch actions against=  16 H other Internet service providers in the United States, the only country=  : where it still holds a patent on its hyperlink technology.H "We believe we have a duty to protect our intellectual property and we = wouldvH expect companies to pay a reasonable royalty based on the revenues that=  they A have enjoyed through the use of that intellectual property," a BTh spokeswoman said.i  F Any royalty based on volume of use would be hefty indeed: There are anH estimated 3 billion pages on the Web, each containing several if not do= zens of hyperlinks.  @ A Prodigy spokeswoman said her firm does not comment on "pending; litigation," but did say the company will contest the case.*  H BT hasn't specified how much it is seeking, but estimates of the possib= leH final tally run into the billions of dollars by the time the patent exp= iresH in 2006. There are tens of billions of connections among the Web's thre= ei billion pages.  F Donald Plumley, a partner with law firm Lang Michener in Toronto, saidH Prodigy and other service providers might have to pay retroactive licen= ceH fees dating back to when they first used hyperlink technology, nearly a=   decade in most cases.m  H Before it collects any fees, BT faces a tough slog in court, made tough= er by?H irate Internet users, who have pointed to a 33-year-old film that shows=  aH Silicon Valley researcher demonstrating a rudimentary hyperlink system.=    C "It's very easy to jump around and make cross-references," Stanford H University researcher Douglas Englebart says in the footage from a 1968=   conference in San Francisco.  H The black-and-white recording, archived on Stanford's Web site, looks t= o beC an example of what patent lawyers call "prior art," evidence that a-4 discovery predates and thereby invalidates a patent.  F Mr. Plumley said another avenue for the defence would be to argue that@ hyperlinks are not inventive since the idea is "obvious to all."  7 On the Web: sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/1968Demo.html=C   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:33:08 +0100w9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>u7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentsg' Message-ID: <3C63EFB4.54508A7F@aaa.com>s  4 Well, it hitted the newswires a couple of years ago.7 The news today is that that have decided to bring it to 
 court now.    Interesting, to say the least...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.=   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:= > 3 > The subject line is stupid and isn't supported byN > the article in the post. > - > I'll bet that the network security folks ato2 > BT are very unhappy that this hit the newswires. >    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:34:40 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents ; Message-ID: <01KE1DO8CCJI8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  3 > The subject line is stupid and isn't supported byo > the article in the post.  H Right.  Whatever one thinks of this particular case, it certainly can't H be construed to illustrate the evil of all software patents, unless you H already have been brainwashed by Richard M. "make your software free or  I will kill you" Stallman.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:52:49 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentsr/ Message-ID: <eAS88.42$Jh4.238@news.cpqcorp.net>   J Now, now.  *I* think most software patents are by and large stupid - and IK have 2.  Nor am I a fan of Richard Stallman.  I like money.  I think makinge money on software is good.  E Our whole patent and copyright system is designed for some other age.    _Freda   Phillip Helbig wrote in message 2 <01KE1DO8CCJI8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...4 >> The subject line is stupid and isn't supported by >> the article in the post.s >rH >Right.  Whatever one thinks of this particular case, it certainly can'tH >be construed to illustrate the evil of all software patents, unless youH >already have been brainwashed by Richard M. "make your software free or >I will kill you" Stallman.e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:22:48 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>7 Subject: RE: The stupidity of granting software patents - Message-ID: <0033000051841671000002L012*@MHS>   & =0AAs far as the Microsoft/Apple/Xerox# Windows cases and the Lotus/Borlande) menuing "look and feel" lawsuit, I agree.>  ' Other examples abound but those are the & most egregious ones that come to mind.  + There are only so many ways to slice bread.m  ) However the title of the post contains ann( implicit "all" and we all have heard the, truism that "all generalizations are false".   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETI( Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:04 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET7 Subject: RE: The stupidity of granting software patentsc    H Now, now.  *I* think most software patents are by and large stupid - an= d I H have 2.  Nor am I a fan of Richard Stallman.  I like money.  I think ma= king money on software is good.  E Our whole patent and copyright system is designed for some other age.i   _Fredo   Phillip Helbig wrote in messageN2 <01KE1DO8CCJI8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...4 >> The subject line is stupid and isn't supported by >> the article in the post.  >hH >Right.  Whatever one thinks of this particular case, it certainly can'= ttH >be construed to illustrate the evil of all software patents, unless yo= u H >already have been brainwashed by Richard M. "make your software free o= r  >I will kill you" Stallman.=   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 16:37:31 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents , Message-ID: <a40usb$103j$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3C63ECE2.E1A2CE99@videotron.ca>,0  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |> John Smith wrote:K |> > Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargesO |> > royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that itPJ |> > invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web. |> l4 |> Shouldn't the date be April 1 on that news item ? |> e  |> This cannot be true. Can it ?  J Of course it can.  In the US you can sue for anything.  or have we alreadyK forgotten the psychic who sued a hospital for loss of psychic ability after H a medical CAT scan.  She won and was awarded several million dollars for< the loss of something who's existence has never been proven.   Only in America!!I  ? Or as Yackov Smirnoff would put it, "America, What a country!!"o   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   v   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:50:06 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentsa; Message-ID: <01KE1F2ST54K8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e  7 > > > The subject line is stupid and isn't supported bya > > > the article in the post. > >aK > > Right.  Whatever one thinks of this particular case, it certainly can'tnK > > be construed to illustrate the evil of all software patents, unless you K > > already have been brainwashed by Richard M. "make your software free ors > > I will kill you" Stallman. > L > Now, now.  *I* think most software patents are by and large stupid - and IM > have 2.  Nor am I a fan of Richard Stallman.  I like money.  I think making  > money on software is good. > G > Our whole patent and copyright system is designed for some other age.a  : I was exaggerating only slightly.  I urge all to check out  :    http://www.stacken.kth.se/stacken/stallman-lecture.html  B where he speaks of "owning software" being "spiritually harmful toG society and evil" as well saying that it is "causing social decay".  He E also implies that ALL people in programming cynically think about hownF much money they can get by not being nice to other people in the field and to users.   B It's like the Bible-thumping fundamentalists who say that AmericanG society is being destroyed because Pete Seeger uses mass-indoctrinationnC techniques going back to Pavlov's dog to brainwash children through D Sesame Street (this example is NOT made up, I actually heard it in aD sermon in Louisiana back when I myself was (almost) a Bible-thumpingH fundamentalist (and about 10 years old))---so far off the wall it's hard5 to even find where to start to destroy the argument. i  G Take the time to read the whole thing, then wonder a) whether it makes 2G much sense and b) rather this philosophy is helpful or not (especially :/ with regard to VMS, the subject of this group).   E Funny how his argument that charging money for software will keep it tC from being used by many people.  Bill Gates wasn't put off by this  	 argument.o  I I'm not a fan of Gates nor am I a fan of Stallman.  What depresses me is eD that most folks seem to think there is no alternative.  It's either * Microsoft, or its free/gnu/linux/whatever.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:58:50 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>k7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents:, Message-ID: <3C6403C4.737F9618@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:L > Of course it can.  In the US you can sue for anything.  or have we alreadyM > forgotten the psychic who sued a hospital for loss of psychic ability after J > a medical CAT scan.  She won and was awarded several million dollars for> > the loss of something who's existence has never been proven.  J I had never heard that one. That one is much better than the lady who sued! McDonalds for serving hot coffee.d  D However, in this case, we're talking about a reputable serious large. international corporation (BT), not some kook.  7 So if BT wins, we'll just go back to gopher servers :-)-   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 09:02:28 -0700 1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)T7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents3, Message-ID: <ME1DsPzx13LZ@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  / In article <fMQ88.1422$LL.597@news1.bloor.is>, h)     "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:t  H > Britain's biggest telephone company begins its bid on Monday to chargeL > royalties for one of main building blocks of the Internet, arguing that itG > invented the hyperlink technology at the heart of the World Wide Web.t > L > Preliminary arguments begin next week in a New York court between BT GroupJ > PLC, the British telecommunications giant, and Prodigy Communications, aF > U.S. Internet service provider. BT is seeking licence fees from U.S.N > Internet service providers -- but not individual surfers -- and is using the& > suit against Prodigy as a test case. > K     ISTM that even if one accepts the questionable premise that this patentoK has any validity, they're going after the wrong target. An Internet servicehL provider doesn't make "use" of the hyperlink technology, they simply includeC text strings in their documents that follow a particular formattingyF convention (could one not argue their right to do so comes under "freeI speech"? ). The application of the hyperlink "process" is in the browser,iK so BT should be going after everyone in the US who has ever used a browser, - or go after the companies that make browsers.a  Q     IMHO, If BT truly believed their case had any merit they'd be suing Microsofto over this issue ;-)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:26:01 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentse, Message-ID: <3C640A20.68E3CB19@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:S >     IMHO, If BT truly believed their case had any merit they'd be suing Microsoftd > over this issue ;-)t  L No, they need to sue Al Gore. He is the one who invented the internet, after all :-) :-) :-)u   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 16:55:33 -0000W= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> 7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentso6 Message-ID: <20020208165533.32671.qmail@gacracker.org>  H On Fri, 08 Feb 2002, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:   <snip>  J >I'm not a fan of Gates nor am I a fan of Stallman.  What depresses me is E >that most folks seem to think there is no alternative.  It's either e+ >Microsoft, or its free/gnu/linux/whatever.P  K For home use, I can see the argument that there is very little alternative.tI Most people discard Apple from the equation or forget about it. Even when I VMS runs on "commodity" hardware I doubt it will get a look in because itoJ is not actively promoted. Ironically, Alpha hardware is the dream setup of< most serious Linux users, and they mostly think VMS is dead.  I Promotion of VMS is sadly lacking, I only hope that Opcom and friends are G taking their system to DefCon 10 this year to teach the hackers anotherdH lesson. :) We need more promotional work like that, and Compaq should be; doing it - it shouldn't be left up to the diehard VMS fans.n     Doc. -- h6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netd   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:38:57 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>l7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentst5 Message-ID: <3C640D31.1E38747C@swissonline.delete.ch>t   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:N > > Of course it can.  In the US you can sue for anything.  or have we alreadyO > > forgotten the psychic who sued a hospital for loss of psychic ability after L > > a medical CAT scan.  She won and was awarded several million dollars for@ > > the loss of something who's existence has never been proven. > L > I had never heard that one. That one is much better than the lady who sued# > McDonalds for serving hot coffee.  > F > However, in this case, we're talking about a reputable serious large0 > international corporation (BT), not some kook.    E From what I have heard, a very large number of UK residents may think H that you are using the word "reputable" in rather different way to their$ general understanding of the word...     John McLeant   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:52:44 +0100r1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>t7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents 5 Message-ID: <3C64106C.3F34B672@swissonline.delete.ch>:   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > L > Now, now.  *I* think most software patents are by and large stupid - and IM > have 2.  Nor am I a fan of Richard Stallman.  I like money.  I think making  > money on software is good. > G > Our whole patent and copyright system is designed for some other age.= >  > _Fredt    B I agree with you.  If I create some software that is a significantA advance on current software I would like to think that I would be= rewarded for it.  F OTOH if I make some minor step, or do something incredibly obvious andG there are only one or two reasonable ways that it could have been done,sE why should I be able to enforce a patent ?  (IIRC, some years ago IBM A tried to patent a simple and very common sorting algorithm ...)  o  G From what I have seen of some patent legislation there is a requirementsF that the invention/action have a physical embodiment (ie. a process isG applicable just as much as a physical product) and that it represents ao novel and significant step.=  G I believe that in the USA there is notion a patent cannot be granted iftE someone else can show that they had thought or created the same thing @ but failed to patent it, but I would have thought that the otherF requirements would be generally universal (except in a few countries).  = I hope the case is either thrown out on its ear or that it isl; trivialised by BT being awarded the sum of 1 cent per year.s     John McLeana   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:57:18 -0500 From: William_Bochnik@acml.com7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentsl> Message-ID: <OF165786E7.AA41A148-ON85256B5A.006298BE@acml.com>  @ let us not forget the whole Compuserve and GIF file format thing either.r        + |---------+------------------------------->n+ |         |           John McLean         |r+ |         |           <mcleanj@swissonline|a+ |         |           .delete.ch>         |p+ |         |                               |r+ |         |           02/08/2002 12:52 PM |b+ |         |           Please respond to   |*+ |         |           John McLean         |g+ |         |           <mcleanj@swissonline|l+ |         |           .delete.ch>         |e+ |         |                               |n+ |---------+------------------------------->tc   >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|rc   |                                                                                               |tc   |               To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                                                      |ec   |               cc:                                                                             |3c   |        Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patents                                |mc   >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|o           Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >r= > Now, now.  *I* think most software patents are by and larget stupid - and I@ > have 2.  Nor am I a fan of Richard Stallman.  I like money.  I think making > money on software is good. >-< > Our whole patent and copyright system is designed for some
 other age. >o > _Fredu    6 I agree with you.  If I create some software that is a significantnA advance on current software I would like to think that I would beM rewarded for it.  : OTOH if I make some minor step, or do something incredibly obvious and A there are only one or two reasonable ways that it could have been  done,:A why should I be able to enforce a patent ?  (IIRC, some years agoE IBM4? tried to patent a simple and very common sorting algorithm ...)r  ; From what I have seen of some patent legislation there is a  requirement ; that the invention/action have a physical embodiment (ie. a 
 process is: applicable just as much as a physical product) and that it represents a novel and significant step.'  < I believe that in the USA there is notion a patent cannot be
 granted if? someone else can show that they had thought or created the same  thing @ but failed to patent it, but I would have thought that the other: requirements would be generally universal (except in a few countries).   = I hope the case is either thrown out on its ear or that it isc; trivialised by BT being awarded the sum of 1 cent per year.      John McLeant          F ______________________________________________________________________;  The information contained in this transmission may containt@ privileged and confidential information and is intended only forA the use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intended-= recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering 3 this message to the intended recipient, any review,j@ dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication? is strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, A please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy # all copies of the original message.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 19:22:09 +0100p9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 7 Subject: Re: The stupidity of granting software patentsd' Message-ID: <3C641751.C57FB3CA@aaa.com>t  4 Or the Swedish inventor Hkan Lans, who's patents on4 "Color Video Graphics for Computers" and "A pointing6 device to enter information into computers (also known7 as "the mice") are constantly brooken (or whatever it'sa: called when you use the information in the patents without5 paing royalties to the pantent holder) buy most large-8 computer corps. Compaq did a deal directly with Mr. Lans: after many of there largest customers in Sweden (including8 many parts of the administration) had declared that they6 could just as well buy there PC's from someone else...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.d   William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:e > B > let us not forget the whole Compuserve and GIF file format thing	 > either.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:22:53 +0000s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: The Vision Thingl* Message-ID: <3C63FB5D.4A5B1898@virgin.net>   JF Mezei wrote:a  N Who took the decision to axe Windows on Alpha ? The one who made that decision  2 > is the one who decided that Alpha had no future.  / Capellas himself. He has said so in interviews.f   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 17:01:17 GMTt1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a Subject: Re: The Vision Thing , Message-ID: <a4108t$103j$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  * In article <3C63FB5D.4A5B1898@virgin.net>,(  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: |> r |> s |> JF Mezei wrote: |> eQ |> Who took the decision to axe Windows on Alpha ? The one who made that decisiond |> u5 |> > is the one who decided that Alpha had no future.  |>  2 |> Capellas himself. He has said so in interviews. |> W  D But did that decision mean he thought Alpha had no future or that he8 saw no future in pumping money into Bill Gates' wallet??  C Surely no one here would think that filling the business world with F NT running on Alpha was going to somehow make all those PHB's suddenly get religion about VMS??   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:24:40 -0500m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: The Vision Thingn, Message-ID: <3C6409D0.F0115745@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:F > But did that decision mean he thought Alpha had no future or that he8 > saw no future in pumping money into Bill Gates' wallet  N Saw no future in pumping money into Bill's wallets ? You gotta be kidding. ...I What do you think Compaq's sole purpose in life is with its insistence on  focusing on Windows ?a  K When Compaq created "industry standard server" divisions and excluded AlphaoN from that division, it was very clear that Compaq had no intentions of pushingI Alpha beyond the small niches it had been able to develop under Digital. iL Everytime Compaq would say that it would focus on industry standard servers,( it was driving a nail in Alpha's coffin.  L Compaq *could* have taken Alpha and pushed it to leverage its potential. ButL it chose not to. I would say that the mutual agreement to drop Windows-AlphaK was as a result of Compaq having decided not to push Alpha. So the decisiondF that Alpha had no long term future would have been taken before NT was, officially killed from Alpha, in my opinion.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:54:16 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: The Vision ThingeA Message-ID: <chU88.28879$xO4.1919372@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>u  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:a4108t$103j$2@info.cs.uofs.edu..., > In article <3C63FB5D.4A5B1898@virgin.net>,* >  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: > |> > |> > |> JF Mezei wrote: > |>J > |> Who took the decision to axe Windows on Alpha ? The one who made that decision > |>7 > |> > is the one who decided that Alpha had no future.e > |>4 > |> Capellas himself. He has said so in interviews. > |> >gF > But did that decision mean he thought Alpha had no future or that he: > saw no future in pumping money into Bill Gates' wallet?? >wE > Surely no one here would think that filling the business world with H > NT running on Alpha was going to somehow make all those PHB's suddenly > get religion about VMS??  G That wasn't so much the point as to make them realize that there was an J alternative to IA32 that ran 'industry-standard' software (i.e., Windows).K Even more advanced 'industry-standard' software than IA32 itself ran (i.e.,aH Win64).  And a lot faster (even running 32-bit Windows, until well after Win32 was cancelled on Alpha).  J A company committed to Alpha would have happily continued to pay the GatesD royalty for that kind of exposure.  There's been plenty of anecdotalJ evidence here that the ability of Alpha to run Win32 got Alpha in the doorL at places where it otherwise wouldn't have - running VMS, with the rationaleF that it could always be used to run Windows if it turned out that they didn't care for VMS.  E The discussion you responded to concerned Alpha, not VMS per se.  But I there's considerable reason to suspect that what was good for Alpha wouldyI have been at least somewhat good for VMS (just as what was very, very bad A for Alpha last June is likely to be at least pretty bad for VMS).h   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:04:06 GMTt  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> Subject: Re: The Vision Thinga8 Message-ID: <al486ug0t278rvbsen9nq97qrc0lcg1jhq@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:39:09 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e   >Michael Austin wrote:K >> are a lot more losses.  I have been at 4 companies in the last year thatu4 >> are ditching VMS in favor of Solaris and some NT. >hN >We're not allowed to say bad things about VMS here, some people get angry andD >accuse you of preventing sales if you say negative things about it.  > Or, you could just quit boring us by constantly and repeatedlyB interjecting your , negative *opinions* of the future into *every* discussion here.  F It's not that we don't respect your ideas as much as we (at least some. of us) are just tired of re-hashing old ideas.  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqo- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:14:39 GMTu From: 1076366@charter.netc% Subject: US-FL-Cobol-vax-vms - WANTEDr0 Message-ID: <3c641533.19509192@news.charter.net>   US-FL-Cobol-vax-vms - WANTED   Perm or temp. Does not matterJ  ' Send your info to:  1076366@charter.netr   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 09:22:45 -0600, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaignc2 Message-ID: <a40qde$ri0$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>  D Remember the Amex commercials, where an athlete/actor/Olympian wouldE talk about 'nobody knew who I was' the displayed their AmEx card as aiH solution?  I think a variation on that (with the right person, or voice)< for VMS would be effective.  No Rodney Dangerfield though...    A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3C634628.E09ADD7B@fsi.net>...  >Jerry Leslie wrote: >>E >> VMS has been called the "Rodney Dangerfield" of operating systems,r2 >> because it doesn't get the respect it deserves. >>D >> Perhaps the future owner of VMS (HP, IBM, CA) could use Rodney in >> some television ads.i >oG >Well, it's true VMS "gets no respect" in many circles. I'd not want itr! >to be taken as a joke, though...r >r >My $0.02... >h >--l >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/h >d) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:e  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:30:27 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>5 Subject: RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign-- Message-ID: <0033000051831288000002L082*@MHS>r  0 =0AAhhhnold [Schwarzenegger] would be a natural.   "VMS systems from Compaq.i   Even I can't break in to them."   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETr( Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:24 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET5 Subject: RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaignt    D Remember the Amex commercials, where an athlete/actor/Olympian wouldE talk about 'nobody knew who I was' the displayed their AmEx card as a[H solution?  I think a variation on that (with the right person, or voice= )D< for VMS would be effective.  No Rodney Dangerfield though...    A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3C634628.E09ADD7B@fsi.net>...s >Jerry Leslie wrote: >>E >> VMS has been called the "Rodney Dangerfield" of operating systems,l2 >> because it doesn't get the respect it deserves. >>D >> Perhaps the future owner of VMS (HP, IBM, CA) could use Rodney in >> some television ads.r >sH >Well, it's true VMS "gets no respect" in many circles. I'd not want it=  ! >to be taken as a joke, though...s >  >My $0.02... >a >--d >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/d >r) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: ! >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/=h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:36:38 +0100o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign)' Message-ID: <3C63F086.1ABD13E0@aaa.com>    Or,p  3 Arnold says : "Sooo easy to use that even I can..."   1 The text below could have Houdini in the picture.m) (Well, he broke *out* of things maybe...)n   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > / > Ahhhnold [Schwarzenegger] would be a natural.- >  > "VMS systems from Compaq.8" >  Even I can't break in to them." >s   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:31:35 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>F5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaignu; Message-ID: <01KE1DJNIWRC8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  F > Remember the Amex commercials, where an athlete/actor/Olympian wouldG > talk about 'nobody knew who I was' the displayed their AmEx card as amJ > solution?  I think a variation on that (with the right person, or voice)> > for VMS would be effective.  No Rodney Dangerfield though...  E Maybe Eddie Murphy, with a reference to his routine referring to his oE accident with fire.  Of course God didn't want to hurt Eddie Murphy, n* just like God doesn't want VMS to be hurt.  A Does anyone actually remember this sketch?  (No summary since it  F probably wouldn't make it to those readers sitting behind NetNanny or  whatever.  :-)  )n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:24:26 +0000-( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign ) Message-ID: <3C63FBBA.90885D12@127.0.0.1>w   Jerry Leslie wrote:D > D > VMS has been called the "Rodney Dangerfield" of operating systems,1 > because it doesn't get the respect it deserves.b   Who's Rodney Dangerfield?   > What about Captain Scarlet? Being indestructible, he'd need an; indestructible computer. (Fictional kids puppet character).e   Freddy Kruger?  G Perhaps you should involve the [remaining] Monty Python team, and you'd A have a reasonable excuse for engineering meeting the stars of thet	 campaign.   H Fact 1: My desk is visited both to browse the technical literature *and* my Monty Python scripts book.n  H Fact 2: I live in Notlob. (Actually 3 miles west but what's that between me and a dead parrot?)   Fact 3: There is no fact 3.a -- ?( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:24:09 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>5 Subject: RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaigns- Message-ID: <0033000051841936000002L062*@MHS>d  # =0ARichard Pryor, not Eddie Murphy.n  1 [Set hisself afire whilst partaking of the heatedr7 vapours of a certain illicit alkaloid the name of whichc* was used by Eric Clapton as a song title.]  / And no, he really can't be on television excepth6 on certain cable channels after the children are abed.  * But as to Pryor being funny?   Absolutely.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETw( Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:55 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET5 Subject: RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaignc    F > Remember the Amex commercials, where an athlete/actor/Olympian wouldH > talk about 'nobody knew who I was' the displayed their AmEx card as a=  H > solution?  I think a variation on that (with the right person, or voi= ce)-> > for VMS would be effective.  No Rodney Dangerfield though...  D Maybe Eddie Murphy, with a reference to his routine referring to hisD accident with fire.  Of course God didn't want to hurt Eddie Murphy,* just like God doesn't want VMS to be hurt.  @ Does anyone actually remember this sketch?  (No summary since itE probably wouldn't make it to those readers sitting behind NetNanny or  whatever.  :-)  )=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:52:15 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaign-, Message-ID: <3C640239.6FE814D2@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:@ > What about Captain Scarlet? Being indestructible, he'd need an= > indestructible computer. (Fictional kids puppet character).   $ Nop, what is needed is Bill Clinton:  H "I wish the white house didn't run on VMS because then emails would haveL easily gotten lost and I wouldn't have gotten so much trouble explaining  my innovative use of cigars"      :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:11:19 -05000 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca>5 Subject: Re: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaigns3 Message-ID: <dxU88.4178$EI.22284@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>   F You saw like me all those movies where expert spies get into a securedI computer room protected by laser rays and break into the systems and knows5 where everything is after peeking for a split second?   D You take a scene like this from a well know movie. They get into theE computer room, but exclaim "ARRGHHH! We're doomed! This is an OpenVMSd server!"   --   SyltremeI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)o> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  G "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> a crit dans le message de news: " 0033000051831288000002L082*@MHS...  - Ahhhnold [Schwarzenegger] would be a natural.f   "VMS systems from Compaq.e   Even I can't break in to them."   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs( Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:24 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET5 Subject: RE: VMS Spokesperson Nominee For Ad Campaigne    D Remember the Amex commercials, where an athlete/actor/Olympian wouldE talk about 'nobody knew who I was' the displayed their AmEx card as anH solution?  I think a variation on that (with the right person, or voice)< for VMS would be effective.  No Rodney Dangerfield though...    A David J. Dachtera wrote in message <3C634628.E09ADD7B@fsi.net>...t >Jerry Leslie wrote: >>E >> VMS has been called the "Rodney Dangerfield" of operating systems,i2 >> because it doesn't get the respect it deserves. >>D >> Perhaps the future owner of VMS (HP, IBM, CA) could use Rodney in >> some television ads.  >yG >Well, it's true VMS "gets no respect" in many circles. I'd not want itf! >to be taken as a joke, though...  >e >My $0.02... >n >--i >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/i >i) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: ! >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/=n   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 12:39:05 -0600oG From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)0M Subject: VMS usage in UK hospitals, was: Re: The Inq : The OpenVMS on Itaniuma3 Message-ID: <REgFQVUhn6Oo@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  T In article <3C640AED.EAEE2669@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > 0 > We'll be needing one of those in a few months. >   $ Congratulations. Hope all goes well.  J > The nice thing is, the first data about the to-be-born hits a VMS system3 > and the ante-natal appointments come off an LA75.t >    Which hospital is this ?  E Any other sightings of VMS systems in UK hospitals ? I didn't realisedA that they were in common hospital use over here. As a data point,nF York General Hospital runs Tru64, or more accurately, during a visit aK few months ago, I noticed they were advertising for Tru64 staff; no mentionr of VMS.    Simon.   -- cG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP        + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 08:51:55 -0500  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: who uses vms?4 Message-ID: <C2256B5A.004BC796.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  + Let me appologize for the missing emoticon.hH I just think if someone is asking for such a list, he or she should haveI the integrity to identify himself or herself.  The orignal post containedl) no such identification, yet asked for it.         / djesys.nospam@fsi.net on 02/07/2002 10:30:59 PMu  ' Please respond to djesys.nospam@fsi.nete   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com1 cc:0 Subject:  Re: who uses vms?a        ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:a >r > ok.g >g2 > is there a list of individuals still looking for >>- > a list of companies still using vax/vms????A  H Well, at the very least, job hunters, holdout ISVs, OEMs, VARs, etc. ...  > There's been posts here in recent memory asking for such info.   -- David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Feb 2002 04:17 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)oH Subject: Re: Why are Alphas so fast when performing number calculations?, Message-ID: <8FEB200204171717@gerg.tamu.edu>  ) mb301@hotmail.com (Mark Bowman) writes...iD }Could someone tell me why Alpha (DS20E) are so fast when performing }number calculations?| }For example:- } ; }Finding out is x is a prime number and akermanns function?- } 6 }http://www.bagley.org/~doug/shootout/bench/ackermann/ }  }MarkF  D There are all kinds of things that could be relevant. Here are some:  I The Alpha has very fast floating point units and quite good integer units F (mostly due to sheer brute force GHz usage, the current P-4 and AthlonH processors outperform it in many kinds of integer work and some types ofG floating point work). The thing you point to above appears to be purelyhF integer, so some of the Alphas spiffy features other than raw speed inD the simplest form are probably helping (i.e. doing it smarter rather than just faster).  G The current generation is an out-of-order processor so it can make evenpJ better use of it's units, allowing up to 80 instructions to be "in flight"< at a time (and backing out of any state costs only 1 cycle).  E It has quad integer issue and dual floating point issue. (I.E. it canqC fetch 4 integer instructions per clock cycle, one for each of the 4tB integer units - as far as I can recall the P-4 and Athlon are onlyF dual issue; they may have more integer units than that, but if so theyG may not be able to start an instruction on all of them simultaneously).n   It has a lot of registers.  D It has very good branch prediction. It also has next line predictionC (allowing branching without fetch bubbles and dynamic prediction ofsC computed jumps) and a set predictor (for working with the 2-way set1 associative cache)..  F Good sized fast L1 cache (a pair of 64KB 2-way set associative caches,F one for each instructions and data). Also the systems (like the DS20E)G usually have a lot of fairly fast L2 cache (I don't rememeber how much, G at least 2MB as that is what a DS10 has) - although in this case the L2 H cache may not be relevant as this particular test looks like it probably: could fit in the L1 cache, barring language related cruft.   Probably some other stuff.  C The question is, for that benchmarking where's the Fortran results?rE Traditionally, Fortran is often fastest for numerical work like this.?   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.076 ************************