0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 13 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 86      Contents: RE: "Crashless Windows"  RE: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  RE: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  RE: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows" . Re: Archive 2150S (and/was: Zip disks and VMS)A Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more A Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more A Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more  Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL  RE: BLISS for C Programmers URL  Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL * Cisco 2948G-L3 layer three switch with VMS' Compaq Clobal Services and IONA Partner  DECnet programs??  Re: DEVSTS in SDA - WAITBMP 7 Financial Market Solutions from onExchange (on OpenVMS) 3 First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. # information from an OpenVMS Partner ' Re: information from an OpenVMS Partner 8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime  Re: MIME Compliant Mail from VMS' Re: Mounting CD takes VMS 7.2-1 down... ' Re: Mounting CD takes VMS 7.2-1 down... P Re: Newbie licensing question - TCPIP services? References: <QfG98.35810$s43.109 OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: Virus Warning  Re: OT: Virus Warning  programming the file system  Re: programming the file system  Re: Queue problems Re: SMTP Spam Filter.  Re: SMTP Spam Filter.  Re: SMTP Spam Filter. ! Re: TCPIP V5.1 eco 3 memory leaks  Re: TCPIP$Config  problems Telnet problems  Re: Telnet problems  Re: Telnet problems # Update: BLISS for C Programmers URL / Uptime Mythology (Was: Re: "Crashless Windows")  vms 7.3 diagnostics M What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip? P Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com# Re: [even further off-topic] euro's # Re: [even further off-topic] euro's  Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:10:37 -0000 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>  Subject: RE: "Crashless Windows"M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E5E5@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   = Please could someone tell me what the phrase 'five-9s uptime' < means? I know the 24x7 & 24x365 & 24x5 etc but not this one.   Regards    Andrew Robinson   L +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------+H A PC requires at least 2 reboots and the plug pulling out for 30 seconds daily before it will work.K Swearing will upset and confuse the poor machine and may mean you will have  to start again. I Swear really badly, and your machine may require months of therapy to get  over the shock   -----Original Message-----< From: David Beatty [mailto:David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com] Sent: 13 February 2002 13:39 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   Subject: OT: "Crashless Windows"      B     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section; of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002; 9 it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com. : A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an8 inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and< do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  The : configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used< ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be interesting.   David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:18:22 -0500 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>   Subject: RE: "Crashless Windows"+ Message-ID: <sc6a2f73.077@AAASMTA.aaas.org>   " 99.999% uptime =3D=3D "Five Nines"  B >>> Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> 02/13/2002 9:10:37 AM >>>= Please could someone tell me what the phrase 'five-9s uptime' < means? I know the 24x7 & 24x365 & 24x5 etc but not this one.   Regards    Andrew Robinson   L +--------------------------------------------------------------------------= -  -------------------------+H A PC requires at least 2 reboots and the plug pulling out for 30 seconds daily before it will work.H Swearing will upset and confuse the poor machine and may mean you will = have to start again. I Swear really badly, and your machine may require months of therapy to get  over the shock   -----Original Message-----? From: David Beatty [mailto:David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com]=20  Sent: 13 February 2002 13:39 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com=20  Subject: OT: "Crashless Windows"      B     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section; of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002; 9 it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com. : A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an8 inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and> do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  The=20: configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used< ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be interesting.   David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:22:35 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C6A76AB.5E050C14@aaa.com>    99.999 % uptime.  < Or, the other way round, aprox 5 min 15 sek downtime / year.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.      Andrew Robinson wrote: > ? > Please could someone tell me what the phrase 'five-9s uptime' > > means? I know the 24x7 & 24x365 & 24x5 etc but not this one.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:24:05 -0000 * From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>  Subject: RE: "Crashless Windows"M Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E5E6@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>   > Thank you to everyone for the answer - I knew I was just being? thick! Sometimes HelpDesk duty can really dull the brain cells, 5 especially if they weren't that bright to start with.    Ta   Andrew Robinson    -----Original Message-----/ From: Jan-Erik S=F6derholm [mailto:aaa@aaa.com]  Sent: 13 February 2002 14:23 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"     99.999 % uptime.  < Or, the other way round, aprox 5 min 15 sek downtime / year.   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.      Andrew Robinson wrote: >=20? > Please could someone tell me what the phrase 'five-9s uptime' > > means? I know the 24x7 & 24x365 & 24x5 etc but not this one.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:22:51 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"- Message-ID: <fxva8.166$rL.156@news1.bloor.is>   / http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0204/019.html   & Look at the diagram in the article....   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:44:07 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"8 Message-ID: <hl1l6uk38efcm5al7p9la7hupej82uouar@4ax.com>  7 On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:18:22 -0500, "John Eisenschmidt"  <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote:   >99.999% uptime == "Five Nines"   D And VMS only manages 99.8% so that;'s just two "9"s according to theF slide  presented at  the Compaq financial analyst conference by HowardD Elias.  I queried Rich Marcello about it and he replied that yes theD figures were wrong but "I wouldn't spend to much time on it since itA is really not Compaq data and I agree with you that the number of E hours is high.  I also think it is single system data and not cluster . based which makes it a little more realistic."  A OK, it was Gartner data but presented by Compaq. Himalaya managed  around 99.98 on the same slide.   C Personally I think all the info on the slide was garbage. Who knows ' what that says about Elias and Gartner,   C >>>> Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> 02/13/2002 9:10:37 AM >>> > >Please could someone tell me what the phrase 'five-9s uptime'= >means? I know the 24x7 & 24x365 & 24x5 etc but not this one.  >  >Regards >  >Andrew Robinson > M >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------  >-------------------------+ I >A PC requires at least 2 reboots and the plug pulling out for 30 seconds  >daily before it will work. L >Swearing will upset and confuse the poor machine and may mean you will have >to start again.J >Swear really badly, and your machine may require months of therapy to get >over the shock  >  >-----Original Message----- > >From: David Beatty [mailto:David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com]  >Sent: 13 February 2002 13:39  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  ! >Subject: OT: "Crashless Windows"  >  >  > C >    There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section < >of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;: >it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.; >A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an 9 >inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and = >do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  The  ; >configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used = >ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be 
 >interesting.  >  >David R. Beatty   -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:39:39 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)   Subject: RE: "Crashless Windows", Message-ID: <a4e4sb$21v0$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  M In article <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E5E5@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>, -  Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com> writes: @ |> Please could someone tell me what the phrase 'five-9s uptime'? |> means? I know the 24x7 & 24x365 & 24x5 etc but not this one.    99.999%   4 A number most people would call "hedging your bets".     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:12:51 -0500 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <RKxqPFKV4qKxsWDOKieZgJ3NCeP7@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:22:51 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:   > 0 >http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0204/019.html > ' >Look at the diagram in the article....  >   ;     For some reason I can't see the diagram.  I'll send the , URL to my home and try to bring it up there.   David R. Beatty    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 04:36:03 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) 7 Subject: Re: Archive 2150S (and/was: Zip disks and VMS) < Message-ID: <55f85d77.0202130436.a9a3041@posting.google.com>  _ "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C634473.B18C3A1@fsi.net>...  > H > Not sure if it'll do anything for SCSI QIC drives. Those sure would beG > great, affordable (no, I won't say it!) alternatives to DLTs for some  > folks, IMHO.   >   C Many thanks - you got me searching some more and I ended up back at ; the OpenVMS FAQ where Hoff mentioned SYS$ETC:SCSI_INFO.EXE.   B My assumption now is the the drive will not work since this SCSI-1B device does not support multiple page MODE SENSE. Ie: set the pageC to anything but 00 in the 6 byte SCSI MODE SENSE (%X1A) command and 0 you get an ILLEGAL_REQUEST error from the drive.  2 MKDRIVER likes to make the following assumption...  9 SENSE_KEY       DRVERR                  ; ILLEGAL_REQUEST   > So I *think* this is the case here. Certainly is if you try anE IO$_DIAGNOSE with a MODE SENSE (non zero page) _OR_ an IO$_SENSECHAR.   ; Hmmm, firmware update coming on ..... if there is one .....    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:24:47 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> J Subject: Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more- Message-ID: <a4dbcv$b38$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   ( Carl Perkins <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote:? : Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> writes... / : }John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote: ( : }: Does it always use it's own alloca? : } C : }I had a set break alloca, and it got breaks there from all over.   A : While this indicates that this routine is used, it does nothing : : to tell you whether or not it ever uses a different one.  D : Making sure it ONLY uses that routine to do this is more difficult% : than demonstrating that it is used.   E : Beware the typo. Beware case sensitivity. Beware all kinds of other  : things, too.  4 I am aware it only indicates use, not exclusive use.  E But I have to use __alloca to be able to use the cc internal version, ' and it is not used or defined anywhere. D (In Unix alloca has to be defines as __builtin_alloca, for instance)   --   -Roar    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:02:28 GMT - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> J Subject: Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more* Message-ID: <3C6A5895.4090409@qsl.network>   Roar Throns wrote:  > G > But I have to use __alloca to be able to use the cc internal version, ) > and it is not used or defined anywhere. F > (In Unix alloca has to be defines as __builtin_alloca, for instance)   #include <builtins.h>   ? Documented in the Compaq C Users Guide for OpenVMS, on line at  H http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ and follow the links to the C 	 compiler.   C Or use the lazy method of finding what header file is needed for a   definition.   / EAGLE> search sys$common:[decc*...]*.H __ALLOCA    ******************************7 SYS$COMMON:[DECC$LIB.REFERENCE.DECC$RTLDEF]BUILTINS.H;4   6 **  __ALLOCA builtin - allocate n-bytes from the stack" void * __ALLOCA(unsigned int __x);'      void * __ALLOCA(unsigned int __x);    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:54:46 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> J Subject: Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more- Message-ID: <a4dnmm$iod$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   2 In article <3C69DA32.90801@qsl.network> you wrote: : Roar Throns wrote: / :> John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote: > :> : [Title changed to attract the attention of other program]( :> : Does it always use it's own alloca? :>  C :> I had a set break alloca, and it got breaks there from all over.   K : Let me rephrase the question.  Is emac's use of it's own alloca function  C : based on compile / build time options, or does it allways use it?   D It seems configure probes for it, and uses the C one if it finds it.  D : The C alloca() function must be implemented as a built-in to work D : properly.  It assumes that the memory allocated is freed when the # : procedure returns to it's caller.h  / It worked in 19.28 and with what I did in 20.7.v  J I have tried using CCs builtin __alloca in 21.1, and get the same ASTFLTs.  1 By disabling atimer, I did not get those ASTFLTS.a  H And there are ASTs in ordinary use (like keyboard input), but these does not trigger ASTFLTs.  = It must be something new with atimer and it's use of signals?gI (Get the same results with HAVE_SETITIMER, but I suspect the implementions is about the same)  3 Anyone who knows how alarm is implemented nowadays?   F : If you are using a substitute alloca function, then there must be a F : free_alloca function called at every point the procedure could exit.  F : And if you are doing that, you might as well just use a malloc() or  : free() routine.g  K : You are seeing alloca() being called.  Are you ever seeing the allocated E : memory freed?   7 Garbage_collect frees the memory with the emacs alloca.e  D If emacs runs out of memory, it tells us by saying memory exhausted.  F :> Someone said they got gcc3 compiled on VMS with bash and configure,. :> but I have problems with a recent GNV bash.M :> I will concentrate on getting Emacs working, autoconf will be tried later.p  I : When you get Emacs working, you will not need to get autoconf working.  K : You will already have the answers needed for OpenVMS until the next time rI : that the maintainers of the UNIX version make a change that requires a : : new configure test.g  ' It does not change that much and often.p  H : If you have the PCA program from DECSET, it may be able to give you a J : profile history before the ASTFLT.  It has been years since I have used H : that package now.  A license for it is in the Hobbyist kit.  I do not 8 : think that the media is on the hobbyist CD-ROM though.  1 I think I have got PCA, but I have never used it.s   -- s -Roar    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 06:00:48 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ( Subject: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL3 Message-ID: <czPV6XOgcOzn@eisner.encompasserve.org>1  f In article <qhn0ydhos4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes:  G > OS/360 is in the public domain.  That's clearly non-proprietary.  NotsJ > many people use it, though.  Clearly the mere lack of proprietariness isF > not enough to make an operating system successful.  But it can help.  C Is the idea that OS/360 aka MVS is somehow "not successful" becauset1 people are not running a copy in their basement ?n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 05:20:04 -0800r# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ( Subject: RE: BLISS for C Programmers URL9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAECHECAA.tom@kednos.com>e   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net], > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:01 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come* > Subject: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL >h >h= > In article <qhn0ydhos4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Eric Smithe, > <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes: >eI > > OS/360 is in the public domain.  That's clearly non-proprietary.  NotnL > > many people use it, though.  Clearly the mere lack of proprietariness isH > > not enough to make an operating system successful.  But it can help. > E > Is the idea that OS/360 aka MVS is somehow "not successful" because 3 > people are not running a copy in their basement ?' >   L Well to reinforce your point, around 1995 there were about 65,000 mainframesI in operation storing approximately 80% of ALL data in the world!  I don't  howwB they measured it but that was out of a Gartner report, as  recall.  E BTW, MVT is also in the public domain, in fact there was a company inm
 Fremont CA# offering in on PCs much like Charone   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:53:20 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL, Message-ID: <3C6A8BF0.7040704@tsoft-inc.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  h > In article <qhn0ydhos4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes: >  > G >>OS/360 is in the public domain.  That's clearly non-proprietary.  NotwJ >>many people use it, though.  Clearly the mere lack of proprietariness isF >>not enough to make an operating system successful.  But it can help. >> > E > Is the idea that OS/360 aka MVS is somehow "not successful" becauseb3 > people are not running a copy in their basement ?  >   I Ok, I don't know much about the recent history of MVS, but this is an OS eF developed by IBM, to run on IBM gear, sold by IBM, maintained by IBM, I and owned by IBM.  The above implies that they have released the sources oE to the public.  How does this one act change make it non-proprietary?a  F I'm not sure I agree with the above statement, about it being clearly F non-proprietary.  'Free' doesn't seem to be enough of a qualification.  C While there have been a few systems manufactured as IBM clones, in t general MVS runs on IBM gear.-  G I have the suspicion that 'proprietary' is another word like 'legacy', j2 used on less favored items in a derogatory manner.   Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:23:07 +0000-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-3 Subject: Cisco 2948G-L3 layer three switch with VMS-8 Message-ID: <ei3l6ug32n15qiobgc9hfd3v4to31l8r7m@4ax.com>  E Anyone out there have VMS systems connected to the new Cisco 2948G-L3eD layer three switch? Looks like we're about to buy one and, on paper,= it looks almost too good to be true pricewise compared to thehD traditional Cisco high speed routers coupled to switches. GuaranteedC wire speed switching *and* routing across all 48 Fast ether and two = Gigabit ether ports simultaneously. And at only around $7,000O  C Anyone know of any hidden problems we might encounter? Currently we"D have a dedicated switch connecting the cluster which then feeds back> into the backbone switches but I'd be inclined just to connectA straight into the 2948G-L3 once installed. This could save me theeC bother of maintaining addresses on  multiple subnets for efficiency @ on the VMS systems - we have a lot of traffic across subnets and= usually the routers are the bottleneck not the wirespeed. AnyV# thoughts? Anyone even seen one yet?p  F Note this is the 2948G-L3 not the 2948G which is a switch only. I knowF there are products from other manufacturers which can also do this but) we have standardized on Cisco in general.: -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:23:03 -0500.2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>0 Subject: Compaq Clobal Services and IONA Partner/ Message-ID: <oDua8.69$1h5.270@news.cpqcorp.net>e  0  http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2002/20020213.htmJ Compaq Global Services and IONA Partner to Increase Customers' Flexibility! for Collaboration and Integration4  E Global alliance broadens Compaq's Enterprise Integration Capabilitiess  J WALTHAM, MA, LITTLETON, MA - Feb. 13, 2002 - Compaq Global Services (NYSE:I CPQ) and IONA, the leading e-Business Platform Provider for Web ServicestH Integration (NASDAQ: IONA), today announced an extension of their globalH alliance - giving customers greater flexibility in building, running andI managing their technology infrastructure by providing next-generation WebaA services and J2EE-based e-business collaboration and integration.   J "This agreement gives customers the freedom from having to choose a singleJ technology platform to support their IT needs," said Rick Fricchione, viceJ president, Compaq Global Services. "Together, Compaq and IONA will provideD businesses with a standards-based integration platform that connectsG heterogeneous infrastructures - improving internal and cross-enterprise: collaboration."   L Based on the IONA Orbix E2AT platform, the new offerings supplement Compaq'sC existing cross-platform enterprise integration initiatives - giving/G customers an unmatched portfolio of services and solutions and enabling-D seamless business process automation, collaboration, and integration@ regardless of underlying platforms, development environments, or
 applications.6  K "End-to-Anywhere integration requires a tightly integrated platform and setJL of services that are adaptable to an organization's strategic requirements,"I said Bob Potter, executive vice president of business operations at IONA.eK "Compaq Global Services is a trusted partner to many of the world's largestaL and most visionary companies, combining their current capabilities with ours3 gives customers unparalleled platform flexibility."   A Compaq and IONA's Enterprise Integration Initiative will include:   G   a.. Compaq Global Services will build a global Enterprise IntegrationaH practice dedicated to the delivery and implementation of IONA Orbix E2A.H   b.. As an IONA Strategic Alliance Partner, Compaq Global Services willK develop a new portfolio of business integration services based on the OrbixtF E2A Web Services Integration Platform and Orbix E2A Application Server	 Platform.2K   c.. IONA will train and certify Compaq Global Services consultants on the-I Orbix E2A Web Services Integration Platform to complement Compaq's Global K Services advanced skill set with the Orbix E2A Application Server Platform.-L Compaq and IONA's relationship began in 1999 around the joint development ofL advanced enterprise computing solutions based on IONA's integration softwareJ and Compaq's Tru64 UNIX platform. Other milestones in the company's globalK strategic alliance include Compaq's commitment to support IONA's Orbix 2000nL and iPortal Application Server on the OpenVMS platform, IONA's certificationH of Orbix 2000 interoperability with the Compaq NonStop Himalaya servers,L Compaq's selection of IONA's Orbix 2000 as the infrastructure to support itsG Telecommunications Management Information Platform (TeMIP) solution and F Compaq's selection of IONA to provide components of the ZLE framework.  
 About Compaq:0L Founded in 1982, Compaq Computer Corporation is a leading global provider ofF information technology products, services and solutions for enterpriseI customers. Compaq designs, develops, manufactures and markets informationfA technology equipment, software, services and solutions, includingnK industry-leading enterprise storage and computing solutions, fault-tolerantbI business-critical solutions, communication products, personal desktop and-J notebook computers, and personal entertainment and Internet access devicesJ that are sold in more than 200 countries directly and through a network ofL authorized Compaq marketing partners. Information on Compaq and its products, and services is available at www.compaq.com.  L Compaq and the Compaq logo are trademarks of Compaq Information TechnologiesC Group, L.P. Product names mentioned herein may be trademarks and/oroK registered trademarks of their respective companies. This document containss@ forward-looking statements that involve risks, uncertainties andH assumptions. All statements other than statements of historical fact areB statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements. Risks,> uncertainties and assumptions include the possibility that theI Hewlett-Packard/Compaq merger does not close or that the companies may beaL required to modify aspects of the transaction to achieve regulatory approvalJ or that prior to the closing of the proposed merger, the businesses of theG companies suffer due to uncertainty; the market for the sale of certainoL products and services may not develop as expected; that development of theseA products and services may not proceed as planned; that Compaq andhH Hewlett-Packard are unable to transition customers, successfully executeL their integration strategies, or achieve planned synergies; other risks thatJ are described from time to time in Compaq and Hewlett-Packard's SecuritiesF and Exchange Commission reports (including but not limited to Compaq'sL annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2001, HP's annualH report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for the fiscal yearH ended October 31, 2001, and subsequently filed reports). If any of theseF risks or uncertainties materializes or any of these assumptions provesA incorrect, Compaq's results could differ materially from Compaq's K expectations in these statements. Compaq assumes no obligation and does notd2 intend to update these forward-looking statements.   About IONA:pL IONA is a leading e-Business Platform provider for Web Services Integration.I IONA Orbix E2AT, which consists of the Orbix E2A Web Services IntegrationvG Platform and Orbix E2A Application Server Platform, enables the flow of F information across disparate systems and the liberation of applicationL assets for new business opportunities. Founded in 1991, IONA (NASDAQ: IONA)G is headquartered in Dublin, Ireland, with U.S. headquarters in Waltham, K Massachusetts. The company had revenues of $181 million in 2001 and employs F more than 900 people in more than 30 offices worldwide. For additionalB information about IONA, visit our Web site at http://www.iona.com.  J IONA, IONA Technologies, the IONA logo, Orbix, E2A, End 2 Anywhere, End ToL Anywhere, Orbix E2A, IONA E2A, IONA e-Business Platform, iPortal ApplicationE Server, SureTrack, IONA XMLBus, Adaptive Runtime Technology, Orbacus,eI Orbix/E, IONA University and Total Business Integration are trademarks orlL registered trademarks of IONA Technologies PLC and/or its subsidiaries. JavaL and J2EE are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun Microsystems, Inc inI the United States and other countries. CORBA is a trademark or registered C trademark of the Object Management Group, Inc in the U.S. and othereJ countries. All other trademarks that may appear herein are the property of their respective owners.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:20:41 +0530e$ From: "upadhyaya" <ups@hotvoice.com> Subject: DECnet programs??/ Message-ID: <Kqta8.52$1h5.201@news.cpqcorp.net>n   Hi,,  . Where can I get sample DECnet socket programs?   Regards,	 Upadhyaya    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:20:22 +0000k( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: DEVSTS in SDA - WAITBMP) Message-ID: <3C6A8436.5CBE1D58@127.0.0.1>    system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > e > In article <Aveutgewynnz@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:e  9 Thank you. The SDA manual further told me about RWAITCNT.f  E I assume therefore that 'bumped' means there was an IO outstanding assH well as some event that caused a mount verification condition. (I wasn't given the value of RWAITCNT).    -- l( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:29:51 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>N@ Subject: Financial Market Solutions from onExchange (on OpenVMS)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1C93@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  E Apologies if this was previously posted, but there were some previousiH references and threads that discussed OpenVMS and positioning within theE financial community, so this might be of interest as it also includesnC references to mission critical Java applications running on BEA Appt server on OpenVMS.   [file 13 if seen previously]  ) http://www.onexchange.com/press112601.aspt  H "ONEXCHANGE DELIVERS ELECTRONIC CLEARING AND TRADING SOLUTIONS ON COMPAQ OPENVMS SOFTWARE  G onExchange Clearing and Trading Systems Now Available on Compaq OpenVMSaE AlphaServer Platform to Enable Highly Reliable 24x365 Performance foro Clearinghouses and Exchanges  A Cambridge, MA - November 26, 2001 - onExchange, Inc., the leading E provider of comprehensive derivatives clearing and trading technology C and services to regulated and over-the-counter (OTC) markets, todaytE announced a business and technology relationship with Compaq ComputeriG Corporation to deliver electronic clearing and trading solutions to theeC derivatives markets on Compaq's OpenVMS software operating system."d  >  Today, derivatives clearinghouses, exchanges, banks and otherA organizations running applications on the powerful Compaq OpenVMSdC operating system, can benefit from onExchange's Extensible Clearingk2 System and Extensible Trading Engine. The system'sD straight-through-processing (STP) methodology enables true real-timeE processing by clearing and settling a trade as soon as it is matched.s  D As a result of close engineering and lab work between the companies,F onExchange has successfully deployed its Java standard clearing systemF and trading engine, using the BEA WebLogic Server, on Compaq's OpenVMSG AlphaServer systems. The ease with which onExchange was able to certifycF on the OpenVMS environment demonstrates the strength of the onExchangeG solution design and the suitability of the OpenVMS environment, and BEAr? WebLogic Server as a platform for J2EE-compliant solutions. Them4 onExchange system is available to OpenVMS users now.  F Today's financial exchanges depend on continuous, uninterrupted accessG to critical applications and data. As exchanges and clearinghouses moveEH to 24x365 availability worldwide, there is an increased need to maintainD uptime of the underlying operating systems. onExchange's trading andF clearing solutions on the Compaq OpenVMS operating system benefit fromH the highly-reliable performance and disaster tolerance capability of theE OpenVMS operating system and its industry-leading cluster technology.   D "The relationship with onExchange further strengthens the leadershipB position Compaq holds at the heart of the derivatives clearing andG trading industry. State-of-the-art solutions designed by companies suchhH as onExchange, in combination with the core capabilities of reliability,E security, and scalability of the OpenVMS environment, will enable our-: mutual customers to deliver real-time performance to theirC constituents," said Mark Gorham, vice president of Compaq's OpenVMSeG Systems Group. "I'm delighted that onExchange's electronic clearing ande: trading solution is now available to the growing number of clearinghouses and exchanges."  < "The OpenVMS operating system is the acknowledged leader forH enterprise-scale computing and Internet solutions; the OpenVMS system isG used extensively in derivatives clearinghouses and exchanges worldwide. F We expect our Extensible Clearing System to be widely adopted by theseH OpenVMS users," said Ed Cuoco, COO and co-founder of onExchange. "CompaqD has a strong presence in the clearinghouse and exchanges market, andH this relationship will enable us to increase onExchange's foothold as we: extend our risk management technologies to OpenVMS users."   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Compaq Canada Corp.: Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660b Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:13:58 -0500o2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>< Subject: First person to get this correct gets a small gift./ Message-ID: <Uuua8.67$1h5.219@news.cpqcorp.net>o  + How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?e   Suea   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:23:18 +0000s  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.: Message-ID: <OFAA5831EE.30F90301-ON00256B5F.004EF295@btyp>    If you're careful all of them...   ;^Dh   Steve So        F "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> on 02/13/2002 02:13:58 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:bJ From:      "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>, 13 February 2002,            2:13 p.m.  3 First person to get this correct gets a small gift.s    + How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?-   Suea              F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has-G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,o$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedhK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.e  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.e  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:30:29 -0500o* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>@ Subject: RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.- Message-ID: <0033000052961926000002L062*@MHS>b  5 =0AAn anonymous source who only identified themselvesa0 by the codename of Deep Thought told me that the correct answer is 42.o   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:14 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET< Subject: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.    + How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?P   Sue=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:35:12 +0100-9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>4@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.' Message-ID: <3C6A79A0.5964DA70@aaa.com>t   99.999 % of them.  Or did I mix the threads up ?G   Jan-Erik Sderholm.h  H > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> on 02/13/2002 02:13:58 PM > " > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:oL > From:      "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>, 13 February 2002, >            2:13 p.m. > 5 > First person to get this correct gets a small gift.o > - > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?a >  > Suer   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:01:21 +0100g From: zessin@decus.de @ Subject: RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.* Message-ID: <00A09830.24F9F023.2@decus.de>   Sue Skonetski asked:- > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?u  1 Not enough? I think you already have my address -w#  I'll look into my box tomorrow ;-)s   -- s Uwe    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:20:18 +0100e/ From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org> @ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift./ Message-ID: <a4e3nf$mob$07$1@news.t-online.com>e   Sue,  H do you mean closed-source (normally commercial) or open-source products?@ I don't know about the closed-source stuff, but many open-source  Products were ported to OpenVMS.   - Freddy   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:37:17 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)0@ Subject: RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift., Message-ID: <a4e4nt$21v0$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <0033000052961926000002L062*@MHS>,'-  WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:A8 |> =0AAn anonymous source who only identified themselves3 |> by the codename of Deep Thought told me that thea |> correct answer is 42. |>  B I certainly hope the number is higher than that.  We had literallyC hundreds (4 books worth) back on the PDP-11.  Surely people do morer) with computers today than they did then??s   bill   -- vJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:11:21 -0500p( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.* Message-ID: <3C6A9029.20906@tsoft-inc.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote:  - > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?n >  > Suen >  >  >   & The only possible answer is "unknown".  D What's the definition of 'application'?  If I write a 3 line adding 8 machine program, is that another distinct 'application'?  G Even trying to compile a list of 'current' applications would be a bit sH much.  What about the applications that ran on VMS 20 years ago, are no , longer in use, and are no longer remembered?   Dave :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:47:53 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>@ Subject: RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.- Message-ID: <0033000052986341000002L012*@MHS>l  8 =0AI was referencing Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy...  " 42 is the answer to all questions.   :^)2   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe+ Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:40 AMbB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET@ Subject: RE: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.    - In article <0033000052961926000002L062*@MHS>,i-  WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:l: |> =3D0AAn anonymous source who only identified themselves3 |> by the codename of Deep Thought told me that theI |> correct answer is 42. |>  B I certainly hope the number is higher than that.  We had literallyC hundreds (4 books worth) back on the PDP-11.  Surely people do morel) with computers today than they did then??l   bill   --H Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wol= vesaD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |? Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>=    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:11:34 -0500M2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>, Subject: information from an OpenVMS Partner/ Message-ID: <Esua8.66$1h5.352@news.cpqcorp.net>n  3 SAVE TIME, MONEY AND INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY IN 2002!l  3 Presenting System Enhancement Software for OpenVMS!i  K MultiSessions - You Can Do Many Things at Once! Allows up to 10 sessions onuJ one VT terminal or PC using terminal emulation. Uses only one VMS license.J Hot-Key between sessions. If you are using terminal emulation this is muchH quicker than pointing and clicking using a mouse and uses less resourcesK plus you don't have to search your task bar to figure out which session youII are looking for. MultiSessions automatically repaints screen on switchingn	 sessions.   J PEEK & SPY - Solve User Problems Easily! Allows you to see exactly what isI on a user's screen and take over the keyboard if necessary. Use PEEK withCG notification. Use Spy without notification. PEEK & SPY can log terminal I output to a file. PEEK & SPY's Teacher Feature allows many users to watcha one instructor.e  F CompuFax - Save Time Sending Faxes! The fully supported OpenVMS faxingH utility that allows you to fax directly from your VTs and PCs using yourG OpenVMS system as the fax server. It is reliable and robust under heavy-H traffic conditions as well as easy to use -- even for the occasional fax user.   G PagerPlus - The System Monitoring Utility That Keeps You Informed! WillsG automatically handle system difficulties or inform you via alphanumerict7 pager and other communication channels. Very versatile!d  D ASSASSIN - Free Up System Resources! Kill idle memory hogs and otherG processes that tie up system resources. You determine what action takessJ place when a process is idle, the level of activity that determines that a6 process is idle and who and what processes are exempt.  G DISKXCEL - Boost OpenVMS System Performance! The next generation in I/OsL technology! Dynamically allocates and deallocates system memory for the data3 caching operation! Supercharge your OpenVMS system!x  # Download Free 30-Day Trial Versionst   www.networkingdynamics.com   or call 1-800-ASK-NDC1      K                 If you don't wish to receive additional technical news fromJL Networking Dynamics you can email us at marketing@networkingdynamics.com and% type unsubscribe in the subject line.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:48:39 +0000,% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>l0 Subject: Re: information from an OpenVMS Partner8 Message-ID: <se2l6uoaiaflpmf80ar9knspsp78r3u77r@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:11:34 -0500, "Sue Skonetski" # <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:      >rL >                If you don't wish to receive additional technical news fromM >Networking Dynamics you can email us at marketing@networkingdynamics.com andm& >type unsubscribe in the subject line.  D About 14 years ago I recall asking the founder of NDC if he realisedA that the circular NDC logo could just as easily be read "CND". Hea6 nearly fell over as he'd never noticed that himself :)  E Seem to recall meeting someone else from the company called "Trudi"?.0  This in London once upon a time.   #> >e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:11:57 +0100a' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>nA Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimee( Message-ID: <3C6A11BD.93F80E6F@spam.net>   Simon Clubley wrote: > c > In article <00A09758.E03A13CA.4@leva.leeds.ac.uk>, Ted Allwood <support@leva.leeds.ac.uk> writes:TJ > > OK, I know its nothing exceptional for a VMS system, but my web server4 > > just passed the one year since last reboot mark: > >eO > > OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node LEVA  12-FEB-2002 14:17:16.18  Uptime  365 01:40:48e > > F > > Does anyone have a suitable logo that I could add to a web page to > > mark the occasion? > >n > J > Actually, on a related matter, what I would be interested in finding outK > is what the longest uptime record is for a VMS cluster as a whole instead 0 > of any individual systems within that cluster.  6 Great! There should also be a SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER that calculates the 8 overall cluster uptime.n  J > Also, what events (scheduled or unscheduled) did that cluster as a whole- > survive without losing production service ?a  9 Good point! There should be a question like with CVS whena shutting down @ that lets you enter a string shortly describing the reason. This will be   stored in some sort of log file.   > Simon. >  > --B > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.m   -- u6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:44:16 +0010a% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au A Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimeC5 Message-ID: <01KE8JSO5GVM003724@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>-  L The problem with this sort of competition is when working in an environment L (e.g., a tower block) where the owners want to do maintenance on electrical 	 supplies.p  J Also the possibility of power blackouts.  We do not have UPS for anything  other than short duration.  N My unclustered ES40 has an up-time of 94 days -- I forget why I intentionally L took it down 94 days ago.  Nope, just remembered, it was to ensure that all L the booting procedures working correctly for my colleagues when I went on 2 
 months leave.o  N My VAXstation 4000 clustered with my Alpha development machine has an up-time ? of 124 days.  IIRC, it was a building maintenance power outage.E   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:27:53 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> A Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimef8 Message-ID: <bqbk6u81539man29m87p3487o69gme9isc@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:11:57 +0100, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>e wrote:   >a >e7 >Great! There should also be a SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER thata >calculates the  >overall cluster uptime.   $ SHOW CLUSTER/CONTs  5 then type in ADD FORMED while the display is running.r   [edited display]  2 View of Cluster from system ID nnnnnn  node: XXXA1 13-FEB-2002 09:19:584 ****************************************************4 *      SYSTEMS      * MEMBERS **      CLUSTER      *4 ****************************************************4 *  NODE  * SOFTWARE *  STATUS **       FORMED      *4 ****************************************************4 * XXXA1  * VMS V7.2 * MEMBER  **  7-OCT-2001 11:59 *4 * XXXVAX * VMS V7.1 * MEMBER  ********************** * XXXA2  * VMS V7.2 * MEMBER  *  *******************************a  A 7-OCT-2001 reboot was after a planned 24 hour once per year powerxB shutdown to the entire facility. That should be the last one as weC will soon have 60KW generator which can run or 24 hours or more andS1 keep the UPS systems fed for that length of time.g  C Had a cluster uptime of around 5 years at my previous employer on aeC two node VAX 4600 system backed with UPS. One rolling upgrade (frome3 5.5 to 6.something) was performed during that time.f    K >> Also, what events (scheduled or unscheduled) did that cluster as a whole . >> survive without losing production service ? > : >Good point! There should be a question like with CVS when >shutting down nA >that lets you enter a string shortly describing the reason. Thisr	 >will be r! >stored in some sort of log file.h >n	 >> Simon.e >> g >> --sC >> Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPo. >> Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:08:11 -0500s+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>eA Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimeoT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1C8E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  ' re: Cluster uptime vs. system uptime...i  G Fwiw, what I often discuss with Customers is the capability to separatebA "application" uptime from "system" uptime, since that is what thee6 companies Business Groups will likely care most about.  B The "mainframe is the standard for availability" is a throwback toG mainframe days when the mainframe types convinced Cust's that scheduledcB system downtime (weekly, monthly) should not count against overallF availability numbers. This is a concept that is rapidly changing todayH however as for many Customers, application availability requirements(not= necessarily system availability) is increasing exponentially.   C Hint - next time some Sales type (from any company) quotes x 9's ofrC availability, ask them if that includes scheduled system downtimes.c   :-)a  C Been discussed here before, but - while other platforms and systemsr@ associate overall availability with system availability, OpenVMSF clusters (via its DLM and shared file system) allow one to proactivelyE shutdown individual systems with zero application availability impacttE ie. no application or disk or queue failover that might disconnect orbH otherwise impact connected users. Simply allow current users to continueG and finish, but redirect all new users to other systems in the cluster.sE Also, need to set local batch jobs to finish what they are doing, butrH redirect new batch jobs to other system queues in the cluster. When thatE one system has no connections or users left on it, it can be shutdown-3 with the application availability still at 100%.=200  B This approach may not be for everyone i.e. if one has long runningC (multi-day) batch jobs that have no checkpoint capability, or largeOF numbers of users that stay logged in to specific systems forever, thenG some additional steps need to be taken (e.g. ask a user to logout/login0C again), but these issues are typically part of the overall solution"
 design.=20  D I know of one site where they do not even tell users a system in theE cluster is going down for proactive stuff (upgrades, maint etc) as it3F will not impact them. They have a number of three node clusters acrossD the country  config'ed such that any two nodes can easily carry peak loads.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Compaq Canada Corp.e Professional Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] Sent: February 13, 2002 4:28 AMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeA Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimew    E On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:11:57 +0100, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>e wrote:   >h >e7 >Great! There should also be a SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER thatd >calculates the=20 >overall cluster uptime.   $ SHOW CLUSTER/CONTi  5 then type in ADD FORMED while the display is running.w   [edited display]  2 View of Cluster from system ID nnnnnn  node: XXXA1 13-FEB-2002 09:19:584 ****************************************************4 *      SYSTEMS      * MEMBERS **      CLUSTER      *4 ****************************************************4 *  NODE  * SOFTWARE *  STATUS **       FORMED      *4 ****************************************************4 * XXXA1  * VMS V7.2 * MEMBER  **  7-OCT-2001 11:59 *4 * XXXVAX * VMS V7.1 * MEMBER  ********************** * XXXA2  * VMS V7.2 * MEMBER  *  *******************************-  A 7-OCT-2001 reboot was after a planned 24 hour once per year power,B shutdown to the entire facility. That should be the last one as weC will soon have 60KW generator which can run or 24 hours or more and 1 keep the UPS systems fed for that length of time.i  C Had a cluster uptime of around 5 years at my previous employer on a,C two node VAX 4600 system backed with UPS. One rolling upgrade (froml3 5.5 to 6.something) was performed during that time.t    E >> Also, what events (scheduled or unscheduled) did that cluster as a  whole%. >> survive without losing production service ? >r: >Good point! There should be a question like with CVS when >shutting down=200A >that lets you enter a string shortly describing the reason. This  >will be=20n! >stored in some sort of log file., > 	 >> Simon.0 >>=20  >> -- C >> Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPo. >> Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:23:59 -00000* From: Andrew Robinson <arobinson@hspg.com>A Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimeAM Message-ID: <CDA4BAD1E10ED41181AC00508B6051D3C3E5DF@grumpy.internal.hspg.com>a  0 2 'Application' outages in 4 1/2 years any good?C 1 was planned as a migration from a Vax cluster to an Alpha ClusterwH the other was a UPS blowing its inverter and fusing the bypass relay in G the process. Took out enough quorum votes to stop cluster. I thought wetL were safe with a Master & Slave UPS plus a Diesel Generator, hopefully fixed5 that one now - completely independent UPS supplies !!  Regards    Andrew Robinson-  L +--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------+H A PC requires at least 2 reboots and the plug pulling out for 30 seconds daily before it will work.K Swearing will upset and confuse the poor machine and may mean you will havei to start again.sI Swear really badly, and your machine may require months of therapy to get3 over the shock     -----Original Message-----0 From: Main, Kerry [mailto:Kerry.Main@Compaq.com] Sent: 13 February 2002 12:08 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeA Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime     ' re: Cluster uptime vs. system uptime...a  G Fwiw, what I often discuss with Customers is the capability to separatepA "application" uptime from "system" uptime, since that is what the 6 companies Business Groups will likely care most about.  B The "mainframe is the standard for availability" is a throwback toG mainframe days when the mainframe types convinced Cust's that scheduledvB system downtime (weekly, monthly) should not count against overallF availability numbers. This is a concept that is rapidly changing todayH however as for many Customers, application availability requirements(not= necessarily system availability) is increasing exponentially.   C Hint - next time some Sales type (from any company) quotes x 9's ofnC availability, ask them if that includes scheduled system downtimes.    :-)t  C Been discussed here before, but - while other platforms and systemsr@ associate overall availability with system availability, OpenVMSF clusters (via its DLM and shared file system) allow one to proactivelyE shutdown individual systems with zero application availability impactsE ie. no application or disk or queue failover that might disconnect or H otherwise impact connected users. Simply allow current users to continueG and finish, but redirect all new users to other systems in the cluster.cE Also, need to set local batch jobs to finish what they are doing, but-H redirect new batch jobs to other system queues in the cluster. When thatE one system has no connections or users left on it, it can be shutdowni1 with the application availability still at 100%. 5  B This approach may not be for everyone i.e. if one has long runningC (multi-day) batch jobs that have no checkpoint capability, or largebF numbers of users that stay logged in to specific systems forever, thenG some additional steps need to be taken (e.g. ask a user to logout/login C again), but these issues are typically part of the overall solutionp design.   D I know of one site where they do not even tell users a system in theE cluster is going down for proactive stuff (upgrades, maint etc) as itAF will not impact them. They have a number of three node clusters acrossD the country  config'ed such that any two nodes can easily carry peak loads.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantl Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660l Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net] Sent: February 13, 2002 4:28 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComoA Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimee    E On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:11:57 +0100, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>- wrote:   >  >e7 >Great! There should also be a SHOW SYSTEM/CLUSTER that  >calculates the  >overall cluster uptime.   $ SHOW CLUSTER/CONTP  5 then type in ADD FORMED while the display is running.    [edited display]  2 View of Cluster from system ID nnnnnn  node: XXXA1 13-FEB-2002 09:19:584 ****************************************************4 *      SYSTEMS      * MEMBERS **      CLUSTER      *4 ****************************************************4 *  NODE  * SOFTWARE *  STATUS **       FORMED      *4 ****************************************************4 * XXXA1  * VMS V7.2 * MEMBER  **  7-OCT-2001 11:59 *4 * XXXVAX * VMS V7.1 * MEMBER  ********************** * XXXA2  * VMS V7.2 * MEMBER  *  *******************************r  A 7-OCT-2001 reboot was after a planned 24 hour once per year powerrB shutdown to the entire facility. That should be the last one as weC will soon have 60KW generator which can run or 24 hours or more andn1 keep the UPS systems fed for that length of time.t  C Had a cluster uptime of around 5 years at my previous employer on aeC two node VAX 4600 system backed with UPS. One rolling upgrade (from 3 5.5 to 6.something) was performed during that time.w    E >> Also, what events (scheduled or unscheduled) did that cluster as ah wholee. >> survive without losing production service ? >i: >Good point! There should be a question like with CVS when >shutting down  A >that lets you enter a string shortly describing the reason. ThisW	 >will be a! >stored in some sort of log file.o >n	 >> Simon.a >> a >> --tC >> Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFPN. >> Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:26:59 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) A Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimeI3 Message-ID: <jymgOWta$vU8@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ] In article <01KE8JSO5GVM003724@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:aN > The problem with this sort of competition is when working in an environment N > (e.g., a tower block) where the owners want to do maintenance on electrical  > supplies.y > L > Also the possibility of power blackouts.  We do not have UPS for anything  > other than short duration. >   F That's true, but if your nodes are so far apart that you need to driveG between them [with reference to a certain VMS checklist :-)], then yourG. cluster can survive a city wide power failure.   >  > Regards, Paddy >    Simon.  J PS: BTW, I agree with Kerry, it's the application availability that's moreM important, which is why I am interested in the cluster uptime, as, of course, F cluster uptime will tend to be much greater than the uptime of any one node within the cluster.   -- lG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       b+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:03:19 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>a) Subject: Re: MIME Compliant Mail from VMSm2 Message-ID: <1fva8.12705$X2.145128@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C69DCAC.DAD0AD59@fsi.net...- > Peter Weaver wrote:e > >2> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3C682ACB.2DD18DC2@videotron.ca... > > > Peter Weaver wrote:-F > > > > 1. Set your terminal to display control characters rather than	 interpret8
 > > > > them.a > > >a5 > > > How can one do that with DECterm in X-windows ? 	 > > > ...nJ > > I could never figure out why this valuable debugging tool was left out ofI > > DECTerm. Every time some user calls to say that they had an error butA couldB > ...4I > DECterm doesn't have scroll-bar on the side? Can't you just scroll backo> > to see what was on the screen before the screen got cleared? > ...   K Applications that just clear the screen are usually not a problem. But whenwD the application does something like <ESC>[21;1H<ESC>[0JError MessageJ #1<ESC>[21;1H<ESC>[0JError Message #2 turing on Display Control Characters+ is the easiest way to see error message #1.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:26:21 +0000u( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>0 Subject: Re: Mounting CD takes VMS 7.2-1 down...) Message-ID: <3C6A5B6D.3DEACE23@127.0.0.1>S   Mark Sun wrote:w > I > An ISO9660 CD burned using Easy CD Creator 5 Platinum on a HP cd-writer 7 > 9500 causes an immediate systems crash when mounting:   H In this case you'll find the problem in fact lies on your PC system. Let me guess. ROXIO !c  F The problem is that it does NOT stick to the ISO standards, and IIRC aC bit is set, or not set, and this causes VMS to bugcheck. There is a:H patch, the MOUNT96, but this simply prevents you from mounting the disk,  therefore avoiding the bugcheck.  @ Take it up with Roxio. The software is not creating ISO9660 cds.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:58:24 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)i0 Subject: Re: Mounting CD takes VMS 7.2-1 down...3 Message-ID: <ktQwhCX5yZ9X@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  T In article <3C6A5B6D.3DEACE23@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Mark Sun wrote:b >>  J >> An ISO9660 CD burned using Easy CD Creator 5 Platinum on a HP cd-writer8 >> 9500 causes an immediate systems crash when mounting: > J > In this case you'll find the problem in fact lies on your PC system. Let > me guess. ROXIO !i > H > The problem is that it does NOT stick to the ISO standards, and IIRC aE > bit is set, or not set, and this causes VMS to bugcheck. There is arJ > patch, the MOUNT96, but this simply prevents you from mounting the disk," > therefore avoiding the bugcheck.  E Certainly VMS should be able to receive any random bit pattern on thesD disk and avoid crashing.  I gather the patch fixes that for this one0 pattern of random bits, but it was a VMS defect.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:49:09 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Y Subject: Re: Newbie licensing question - TCPIP services? References: <QfG98.35810$s43.109*3 Message-ID: <Y91YkTpLUckj@eisner.encompasserve.org>B  b In article <7mla8.38931$s43.12985496@typhoon.columbus.rr.com>, pkukla@simon.felinet.org () writes:F > Simon wins the prize.  I set the terminal type on my Linux box priorE > to the telnet session and it worked fine.  It had been defaulted to H > "rxvt" there.  Changing to vt100 made all the difference in the world. > F > Thanks very much.  It might've been a while before I stumbled across > that on the web... >  >  > -peter >   G You are welcome. In case anybody is wondering what is going on with VMSaH here, the problem is that in TCP/IP 5.0, which is the version shipped onH the hobbyist CD, there is a known bug in the telnet terminal type option negotiation.  H If the terminal type that the client uses is not recognised by VMS, thenF VMS continually repeats the option negotiation instead of stopping the negotiation.   Simon.   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       r+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:38:35 -0500r5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>e  Subject: OT: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <zWpqPAxN2DpuwomlNbATt9ATnAYW@4ax.com>  B     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section; of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;-9 it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.r: A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an8 inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and< do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  The : configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used< ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be interesting.   David R. Beattyi   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 11:59:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)f$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"3 Message-ID: <8abZ0BbQjnMY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <zWpqPAxN2DpuwomlNbATt9ATnAYW@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes: > D >     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section= > of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;s; > it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.i< > A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an: > inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and8 > do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  C Pardon my cynicism, but I thought he was a marketing vice presidenti rather than an engineer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:16:36 -0500o5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>l$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <Qq1qPExDEKj8DwGk9bYbb4stONJ8@4ax.com>  F On 13 Feb 2002 11:59:59 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  k >In article <zWpqPAxN2DpuwomlNbATt9ATnAYW@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes:s >> iE >>     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section > >> of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;< >> it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.= >> A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created anr; >> inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers ands9 >> do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.u >sD >Pardon my cynicism, but I thought he was a marketing vice president >rather than an engineer..  5 He might very well be, but the product does exist anda2 apparently many customers swear by it.  There is a7 link to the article on Forbes elsewhere in this thread.s   David R. Beattyl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:28:09 +0000n1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>u Subject: Re: OT: Virus Warning6 Message-ID: <3C6A1589.6CFA41B1@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > L > In article <3C683ED4.4FC7B18C@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece writes:/ > > One could also look at the VMS web server :@L > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/mozilla_relnotes.html >  > Web server ?  Not browser ?   E Well, my thinking was that the kit and the documentation for said kituH (and product) reside on the web server.  One would, of course, use a web2 browser to get to the documents on the web server.  3 (And pedantry will get you everywhere they say....)d   > L > > As it notes, the code is not considered to be "Production quality" but IH > > must admit it's pretty good (if a little of a resource hog) on a DECF > > 3000 model 600 with 160MB RAM.  Doesn't crash as often as Netscape > > Navigator.....   -- *G "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent like*E a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.WA Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"*% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"V   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 06:03:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)B Subject: Re: OT: Virus Warning3 Message-ID: <2FV$NNCQoDuv@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  j In article <3C6A1589.6CFA41B1@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> 2M >> In article <3C683ED4.4FC7B18C@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>, Steve Reece writes: 0 >> > One could also look at the VMS web server :M >> > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/mozilla_relnotes.htmlf >>   >> Web server ?  Not browser ? > G > Well, my thinking was that the kit and the documentation for said kit J > (and product) reside on the web server.  One would, of course, use a web4 > browser to get to the documents on the web server.  C Whereas what I thought was that the product whose documentation youcB were looking at was a web browser (ignoring issues of the tools to
 do so) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:11:59 +0100i/ From: "Jan Mnnich" <moennich@data-consult.com>h$ Subject: programming the file system/ Message-ID: <a4dakk$27h$03$1@news.t-online.com>0   hi ho,H i have an ansi-c cgi library which stores http file uploads using fopen, fwrite and so on.mH the library compiled well under vms but when i tried to upload pictures,	 they wereyG corrupted! then i found out, that the fopen command may have additional 
 parameters/ for instructing the (very complex) file system.l i tried something like this:  # fopen(fname, fopenmode, "CTX=STM");s  H this allowed to open the file in stream mode and worked well for graphic
 files that0 are small. some bigger files were corrupted too! does anyone know what to do?   1000thxc jan mnniche   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:46:04 -0500-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-( Subject: Re: programming the file system, Message-ID: <3C6A8A3B.28DE5F10@videotron.ca>   "Jan Mnnich" wrote:J > the library compiled well under vms but when i tried to upload pictures, > they were I > corrupted! then i found out, that the fopen command may have additionalr  % > fopen(fname, fopenmode, "CTX=STM");e  K try : "ctx=bin","rfm=udf"   if you want to write a raw stream of bytes to am file without record attributes.1  N However, many applications that create "binary" files will store them in fixed record size attributes:e 	"ctx=bin","rfm=fix","mrs=512"  M If you are writing binary data, you should instead use the open() and write()p! instead of fopen and fprintf etc."   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:08:31 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Queue problems * Message-ID: <3c6a735f$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  u In article <bc0e3bd8.0201171008.16354721@posting.google.com>, pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders) writes:iD >  I have recently changed the name of my microvax 3100 vax node and3 >everything is fine except for the sys$batch queue.uE >  When I do a show queue it displays the queue as running on the oldl >node name.-$ >  I have tried to run the command :B >  init /queue /on=<new_node_name> but when I enter the queue_name@ >sys$batch it replies with inconsistent queue name. The queue is4 >auto-started so is not defined in systartup_v5.com.   You simply forgot /BATCH  E >                                                    Does anyone knowlF >which file holds the auto-queued queue or how I change the node name.  G Autostart means /AUTOSTART_ON and not /ON as in the your command above.i  # Try again and you'll see success...n   -- u< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888o< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:55:17 +0100i% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>l Subject: Re: SMTP Spam Filter.. Message-ID: <a4d656$4av$1@info.service.rug.nl>  6 "Paul Frommeyer" <corwin@palas.com> wrote in message =2 news:200202120837.g1C8bZjF014761@milo.palas.com...H > ORBZ (Open Relay Blackhole Zone) is a publicly accessible DNS databaseG > of offending systems. Since my 6350 is temporarily powered down, I'veyG > tied my BSD sendmail system into ORBZ, and have seen a an approximate E > 60% reduction in spam. (85% overall, but I use a strict config thattD > blocks various rude behaviors and DNS mischief as well as uses the7 > inevitable local blacklist). Details at www.orbz.org.n   See also www.ordb.org.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:35:42 -0500t; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>3 Subject: Re: SMTP Spam Filter.$ Message-ID: <3c6a87e9$1@news.si.com>  K >I would like to find some sort of DNS-lookup site that is tracking some ofe this	 >garbage.:  , http://www.ordb.org/ or http://www.orbz.org/ --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comFA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventa< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:54:34 +0000 (UTC)1 From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: SMTP Spam Filter.+ Message-ID: <a4e5oa$5mf$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>*  b In article <3c6a87e9$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> writes:L >>I would like to find some sort of DNS-lookup site that is tracking some of >thisX
 >>garbage. > - >http://www.ordb.org/ or http://www.orbz.org/S >--     A There is a fairly comprehensive list of anti-spam databases on :-*  1  http://www.declude.com/JunkMail/Support/ip4r.htm     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:12:17 -0800- From: martin.platts@cdl.co.uk (Martin Platts)p* Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.1 eco 3 memory leaks= Message-ID: <b367fb16.0202130912.351619ba@posting.google.com>l  D Theres a similar leak in V5.0a ECO 3 as well - with similar patches.B Another way to see the fault is to do a "show service telnet/full"F (our users mainly use telnet, but I guess its wider than that) and youF see more "active" connections than there should be - until it hits the? "limit" you've set then users get i/o channel errors. I've seen > systems with 3 or 4 "TELNET" capable devices with 40-50 active connections (gradually grows).  B V5.0A ECO 3 needs new TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE and new TCPIP$INETACP.EXE  D V5.1 ECO 3 needs the same files and also TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES.EXE% (it provides new .STB files as well).    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 08:29:08 -0800' From: steve.esson@esa.int (hieronymous)u# Subject: Re: TCPIP$Config  problems:= Message-ID: <fe9697fd.0202130829.2240e1f4@posting.google.com>s   Installed patches:-  VMS721_DCL-V0200,  VMS721_UPDATE-V0300, E VMS721_PCSI-V0100i& plus TCPIP-eco-3 but unfortunately my + syntax error still refuses to leave so any o1 other inspired suggestions would be most welcome.    cue frustrated monologue:-  ? Further to the words of Dirk Munk in an earlier posting, "TCPIP B configuration problems and questions", I'm also a bit disappointedD that nothing sensible has been done by Compaq about the look of thisB TCPIP stuff on VMS.  UCX used to be a bag of worms and although itF works better now and the days of manually editing the config files areF gone, it all still looks like it's been quickly lashed together from aD bag of spare unix cast-offs.  e.g. those irritating printcap files. C Since OSI is a dead dog, the TCPIP stuff is even more important. Toa@ look at it now after all these years of software development you certainly wouldn't know it.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:15:51 +0900c& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> Subject: Telnet problems+ Message-ID: <a4ddog$20e$1@news1.kornet.net>   L I can ftp to my remote host (Alpha machine running VMS 7.2) no problems. Why0 can't I telnet? It kept saying "Connection fail"7 How can I set up so I can do a remote login from my pc?J Does anyone have any ideas?i Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:30:25 +0100 $ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> Subject: Re: Telnet problems% Message-ID: <3c6a5c62$1@news.post.ch>c  > Is the telnet service enabled on the system you want to login? Trya   $ ucx show service telneth   regardse   Jakob    --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion.A and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companya    7 "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> schrieb im Newsbeitragy% news:a4ddog$20e$1@news1.kornet.net... J > I can ftp to my remote host (Alpha machine running VMS 7.2) no problems. Why 2 > can't I telnet? It kept saying "Connection fail"9 > How can I set up so I can do a remote login from my pc?e > Does anyone have any ideas?t > Thanks >p >c >o   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:30:11 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)h Subject: Re: Telnet problems0 Message-ID: <a4dm8j$n1v$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  T In article <a4ddog$20e$1@news1.kornet.net>, "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> writes:M >I can ftp to my remote host (Alpha machine running VMS 7.2) no problems. WhyD1 >can't I telnet? It kept saying "Connection fail"O8 >How can I set up so I can do a remote login from my pc? >Does anyone have any ideas?  O Tell us your TCP-IP stack (Multinet, TCP-IP services from Compaq, TCPware, CMU)t7 and it is more likely that we will be able to help you.r   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannt  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 08:06:57 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e, Subject: Update: BLISS for C Programmers URL3 Message-ID: <jO9LWcTW$SYo@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  6    For those who've had problems downloading my files:  D    The browsers seem to assume that all the files are binary.  AfterA    downloading with lynx or Netscape, the following command fixedm    the file:  3    $set file bliss.rno/attr=(rfm:stmcr,lrl:0,mrs:0)   6    Also, I'll be posting the following MMS when I can:  C !in order to get the table of contents accurate, use /from to forcee0 !two full builds after errors have been resolved !nF !the first attempt will always generate an error from lacking the .rnt !file  ! B ! .lni files (no longer used here) need to be printed with a wider !  than normal formh !t  	 .suffixess' .suffixes .lni .mem .rnt .rnx .brn .rnos   runoff = runoffd   blissclass = bliss.mem  / $(blissclass) : bliss.rno, bliss.rnt, bliss.rnx   
 .rno.mem :   $(RUNOFF) $(MMS$SOURCE)o  
 .rno.lni :&   $(RUNOFF) /device=ln03 $(MMS$SOURCE)  
 .brn.rnt :#   $(RUNOFF) /contents $(MMS$SOURCE)9  
 .rno.brn :'   $(RUNOFF) /intermediate $(MMS$SOURCE)m  
 .brn.rnx :    $(RUNOFF) /index $(MMS$SOURCE)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 10:42:36 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)y8 Subject: Uptime Mythology (Was: Re: "Crashless Windows")3 Message-ID: <2NqM15S8QlOc@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ` In article <hl1l6uk38efcm5al7p9la7hupej82uouar@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:9 > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:18:22 -0500, "John Eisenschmidt"  > <jeisensc@aaas.org> wrote: >   >>99.999% uptime == "Five Nines" > F > And VMS only manages 99.8% so that;'s just two "9"s according to theH > slide  presented at  the Compaq financial analyst conference by HowardF > Elias.  I queried Rich Marcello about it and he replied that yes theF > figures were wrong but "I wouldn't spend to much time on it since itC > is really not Compaq data and I agree with you that the number of G > hours is high.  I also think it is single system data and not cluster 0 > based which makes it a little more realistic." > C > OK, it was Gartner data but presented by Compaq. Himalaya managed0! > around 99.98 on the same slide.y > E > Personally I think all the info on the slide was garbage. Who knowsP) > what that says about Elias and Gartner,r >   ; 	yes... mythology.  Gartner mythology?  No one pointed themO 	to the following?    7 http://www.compaq.com/services/available/av_uptime.htmlp  C The ultimate partnership for the highest level of business-criticalo
 availability    ? Compaq offers you a choice in Uptime Guarantee support for your   business-critical environments:   K Up to 99.999% Uptime Guarantee for Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS on AlphaServer GSd systemsr  L Up to 99.99% Uptime Guarantee for Windows 2000 Datacenter on Compaq ProLiant systems   A 99.5% or 99.9% Uptime Guarantee for Windows NT on Compaq ProLiantr  H Based on a partnership between you and Compaq, our Uptime Guarantee is a contractual agreement    ---M   				Robc   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 18:39:29 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>d Subject: vms 7.3 diagnostics0 Message-ID: <a4ebt1$970@dispatch.concentric.net>  H Is it true that we must use Windows to view diagnostics on OpenVMS v7.3?3 Gone are the days of $ANALYZE/ERROR and $DIAGNOSE ?n  6 How do we monitor errors via a serial line connection?  0 Should Compaq provide us a command line product?  3 My opinion does not necessarily reflect the opiniono" of my employer nor its management.  ' Jim Strehlow, Data911, JimS@data911.comc Alameda, CA    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:53:21 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com><V Subject: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip?' Message-ID: <3C6A7DE1.5080806@mmaz.com>n  H I've been traveling a lot and perhaps I missed postings on this, but in D February 11th's eWeek was an article that I've pasted below about a I 'back-room' replacement chip for the Itanium in the event that it bombs. sE  After reading the article, this isn't the first time Intel has done cE this and in the case of the 80386, it appears that this chip was the /, 'back-room' chip that became their hallmark.  F The ultimate question is what happens to the VMS to IPF port if Intel I determines that IPF is a looser?  More to the point, what has Compaq not fH said to assure the VMS community of VMS's future in the light that they I killed Alpha and could have the carpet pulled from under their five year t road-map for VMS?s   Regards,   Barryn  N ------------------------------------------------------------------------------   January 25, 2002  2 Report of New Intel Chip Makes Sense, Analysts Say    4 By  Ken Popovich <mailto:ken_popovich@ziffdavis.com>    B Intel Corp. is secretly developing an alternative 64-bit chip the @ company can turn to should its $1 billion Itanium design flops, ? according to a newspaper report Friday quoting unnamed sources.,  I And though Intel spokesman Howard High, in Santa Clara, Calif., declined tB to comment on the report, published by the San Jose Mercury News, G industry analysts said the article largely confirms what they had long k
 suspected.  F "It's really just insurance," said Kevin Krewell, a chip analyst with I Cahners In-Stat/MDR in Sunnyvale, Calif. "But, of course, it's something e& they don't want people to know about."  F In fact, word that Intel's developing an alternative 64-bit processor I based on its existing Pentium design could undermine its efforts to sell oE computer makers and corporate customers on Itanium, which features a  J entirely new architecture and requires users to adopt new software to run.  D For many companies, the alternative design could be more attractive E because it would be largely compatible with their existing software, eD resulting in significant costs savings compared to adopting Itanium.  I "If people really thought this was coming, a lot of customers evaluating 0I Itanium would say, 'Well, if we could have a compatible chip that does a :H lot of what Itanium does, but is also more compatible with our existing D 32-bit software, that might be a better deal for us,' " said Nathan E Brookwood, an analyst with Insight64 in Saratoga, Calif. "That could I( take the wind out of the Itanium sails."  F In general, 64-bit processors are used to power high-end workstations G and servers that are capable of handling massive amounts of memory and _B data. Until Itanium, Intel has had no presence in high-end 64-bit 8 servers, which can cost several million dollars a piece.  G Currently, Sun Microsystems Inc., Hewlett-Packard Co. and IBM dominate aD the 64-bit market, but Intel is counting on Itanium to serve as its A flagship product and help assure the company's future growth and l profitability.  G But since it's release last May, Itanium has attracted few buyers. The -H chip, developed over seven years at an estimated cost of $1 billion, so I far has appeared on only a fraction of 64-bit servers sold, according to s Gartner Dataquest.  I While Intel representatives are confident sales will vastly improve once  H a faster performing second generation Itanium chip, codenamed McKinley, G is released later this year, the company is apparently hedging its bet.!  I In Friday's edition of the San Jose Mercury News, the newspaper reported oE that a group of Intel engineers, dissatisfied with Itanium's design, tG were given the go ahead by Chief Executive Craig Barrett to develop an fF alternative 64-bit processor that basically builds upon the company's  existing Pentium architecture.  D According to the newspaper, work on the project, given the codename I Yamhill Technology, is under way at Intel's facilities in Hillsboro, Ore.M  ? If Intel eventually does choose to replace the Itanium with an fB alternative chip, it wouldn't mark the first time the company has  changed course in mid-stream.p  H In the early '80s, Intel's roadmaps called for the company was counting I a new chip design, the IAPX432, to serve as the basis for its transition  ! from 16-bit to 32-bit processors.e  H "It was going to be a revolutionary processor with the ability to do 32 E bits," Krewell said. "But it was about 10 years ahead of its time in aF terms of process technology and chip integration point of view -- and  totally flopped."=  B "The 432 turned out to be a huge chip that ran very slow," agreed 
 Brookwood.  B Fortunately for Intel, a small team of engineers had developed an A alternative 32-bit design based on Intel's 16-bit 286 design, an sF architecture that become known as the 386 processor and stands as the K predecessor to the chipmaker's fastest product today, the 2.2GHz Pentium 4.i  H "The reality was that the 386 became Intel's 32-bit solution, and saved ) the company, more or less," Krewell said.r  E While Intel's secret development efforts may once again prove a wise eG move, the covert effort may also inadvertently benefit rival chipmaker l Advanced Micro Devices.   I AMD, based in Sunnyvale, Calif., has announced plans to produce a 64-bit eE processor based on the x86 architecture, similar to Intel's reported hE alternative design. But the future acceptance of AMD's 64-bit Hammer  C processor may hinge on the support of another key industry player,   Microsoft Corp..  E While AMD likely holds little sway in trying convincing Microsoft to nC develop an x86 64-bit operating system, it becomes a whole another a, matter if Intel wants it done, Krewell said.  E "AMD's x86 64-bit processor has an uphill battle with one really key 1H vendor, Microsoft. If AMD doesn't get support, its chips are only going D to be of interest to a relatively small group of Linux hackers," he H said. "But if Intel has plans for such a chip, then Microsoft has to do  it."  B Even if Intel's alternative processor is only in the early design I stages, the chipmaker has likely already requested that Microsoft create a software for it, Krewell said.  E "Intel can't develop some secret hidden technology and then suddenly 8G spring it to life and say, 'here it is,' " he said. "They need to have lI Microsoft support it. And if Microsoft supports it, then it shouldn't be oB that much more difficult to support AMD's similar design as well."  E For its part, AMD said word that of uncertainty about Itanium within b. Intel's own ranks should give customers pause.  F "It's not just Intel making a bet here on Itanium, it's CIOs who have G taken a chance and bought Itanium machines, or the software developers -E that have spent $100 million porting software to Itanium that are at  G risks," said Pat Moorehead, AMD's vice president of customer advocacy.  G "After hearing about how Intel's wavering, they are going to be asking n+ the question, 'Hey, what's going on here.'"n    = Copyright (c) 2001 Ziff Davis Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.o   -- /  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028o   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:06:24 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukY Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip-+ Message-ID: <a4e6eg$5uc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>4  \ In article <3C6A8C1E.D026E87E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >"Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:*H >> The ultimate question is what happens to the VMS to IPF port if Intel# >> determines that IPF is a looser?l >iK >HP will have a stockpile of Alphas and a stockpile of IA64s to continue toaO >support the existing customers for X years. My opinion is that IA64 will be tofN >HP what Alpha was to Digital/Compaq: a proprietary chip nobody else uses that% >continues to live , sponsored by HP.   M The only thing going for IA64 was the fact that it was supposedly going to be-N the Industry Standard. Why would any customer want to move from ALPHA, PA-RISCN to a niche chip which underperforms and probably costs more than their currentL systems. My bet would be that HP would cut their losses and drop IA64 pretty soon after Intel dropped it. c  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:17:48 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.ukY Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip'+ Message-ID: <a4eakb$78f$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  \ In article <3C6AA5DC.41B64954@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:O >> systems. My bet would be that HP would cut their losses and drop IA64 prettyd >> soon after Intel dropped it.- >- >-R >And go where ? They've burned their bridges.  They're committed to IA64 big time. >e  O For their "main business" PCs no problem - follow Intel's lead (or AMD's lead).2  
 For the rest o   Two choices.  ( 1) They start looking at a PLAN B now !!'    Possibilities that spring to mind :-l  "    a) Restart development on Alpha    b) Investigate AMD's Hammer    c) Investigate IBM's Power 4e    M 2) They wait and continue producing Alpha and PA-RISC speed bumps. EventuallysM losing all the customers. They may decide this is what they want ie they wanto: to just become another PC company competing against DELL.       O >Will the 64 bit 8086 have lockstep for NSK and the 4 modes needed for VMS ? Iff9 >not, can it be added, and if so, how long will it take ?n >l  M I don't know - that's why the possibilities need to be investigated now. The aI only option I am sure would support both of these is a resurrected Alpha.r  L If it could support NSK and VMS then AMD's Hammer would probably be the bestK choice from HP/Compaq's point of view - No political problems such as mightiO arise from renewed development of Alpha and they can still pursue their idea of2N standardising all their systems on one chip. Though how well AMD's Hammer willE work in high end systems competing against Power is open to question.o      L >IA64 is there until at least 2010. It would be most irinic if Alpha were toO >outline IA64, but I would not be surprised since VMS customers won't have much > >incentive to drop Alpha until HP ceases to sell the machines.  M Precisely. Even the most diehard VMS supporter (such as myself) would have a tN hard time arguing that VMS had a future if it's only escape route from a dead G Alpha architecture was to an expensive and badly performing niche IA64 cL architecture (which despite any protestations to the contrary from HP/COMPAQL would be painted as a dead architecture by all their competitors). The only N thing IA64 ever had going for it as a replacement for Alpha was the idea that 1 supposedly it would become the Industry standard.t  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:03:38 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip-' Message-ID: <3C6A8E5A.8090007@mmaz.com>T   JF Mezei wrote:m   >"Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:n > h >>The ultimate question is what happens to the VMS to IPF port if Intel determines that IPF is a looser? >> >kK >HP will have a stockpile of Alphas and a stockpile of IA64s to continue to O >support the existing customers for X years. My opinion is that IA64 will be tosN >HP what Alpha was to Digital/Compaq: a proprietary chip nobody else uses that% >continues to live , sponsored by HP.l >  >rB I'm not sure I see the validity of that logic, HP or not, for any G computer manufacturer to stockpile equipment that is often obsolete in  . six to eighteen months doesn't make any sense.  F Remember, both HP and Compaq are out of the processor biz which would G make these systems just glorified PC's that have the unique ability to  D run VMS if Compaq (HP) coded the port to only work on their systems H (rather than all IA-64's such as Dell, Gateway, white-box, etc).  Intel E operates off of volume, where would be their motivation to support a /& dead chip that they themselves killed?  @ I do not see why Intel would want to do what Compaq claimed was H unprofitable with the Alpha, which also begs the question as to how the G long term integration of the Alpha technology into IA-64 could be also c impacted by this...    Regards,   Barry    -- s  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:52:40 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>tY Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipt, Message-ID: <3C6A99D3.3A47B2C0@videotron.ca>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:I > (rather than all IA-64's such as Dell, Gateway, white-box, etc).  IntellF > operates off of volume, where would be their motivation to support a( > dead chip that they themselves killed?  L The same motivation that Intel had when it was fabbing Alphas under contractM with Digital. When Intel decides that IA64 doesn't have a high volume future,MM it will donate IA64 to HP and HP will then contract with Intel to Fab them in  whatever quantities HP needs.R  N Many in this group had/have an extreme loyalty to VMS and would love to see itJ succeed. Many have also worked hard to prevent Digital/Compaq from hurtingL VMS. It should therefore not be hard to understand that a company such as HPK or Compaq would have extreme loyalties to Microsoft and Intel and will worknL very hard to make sure that theur succeed, since their own success hinges on# the success of Intel and Microsoft.w  A > I do not see why Intel would want to do what Compaq claimed was  > unprofitable with the Alpha,  N Compaq's financials are as clouded as Enron's. Compaq can claim what it wants,N and Compaq can structure itself to make certain products look profitable while other are unprofitable.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:54:08 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipr, Message-ID: <3C6A8C1E.D026E87E@videotron.ca>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:G > The ultimate question is what happens to the VMS to IPF port if Intelu" > determines that IPF is a looser?  J HP will have a stockpile of Alphas and a stockpile of IA64s to continue toN support the existing customers for X years. My opinion is that IA64 will be toM HP what Alpha was to Digital/Compaq: a proprietary chip nobody else uses that $ continues to live , sponsored by HP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:19:09 -0800e' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>iY Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip + Message-ID: <3C6AA00D.B039DC9E@caltech.edu>t   JF Mezei wrote:n >  > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:I > > The ultimate question is what happens to the VMS to IPF port if Intel $ > > determines that IPF is a looser? > L > HP will have a stockpile of Alphas and a stockpile of IA64s to continue toP > support the existing customers for X years. My opinion is that IA64 will be toO > HP what Alpha was to Digital/Compaq: a proprietary chip nobody else uses that & > continues to live , sponsored by HP.  P That's the notable point.  Compaq dropped Alpha because Capellas thought it best nottO to pay to develop one's own chip.  If HP ends up footing the full bill for IA64f	 the costsRM will probably be similar, if not higher, than  what Compaq was paying for the 
 Alpha.  SoN the net result of dumping Alpha may very well be _increased_ costs and virtual slaveryn	 to Intel.   I I guess they weren't getting enough abuse from Microsoft to satisfy theirm masochistic tendencies.-   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:44:04 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aY Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip , Message-ID: <3C6AA5DC.41B64954@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:cN > systems. My bet would be that HP would cut their losses and drop IA64 pretty > soon after Intel dropped it.    Q And go where ? They've burned their bridges.  They're committed to IA64 big time.   N Will the 64 bit 8086 have lockstep for NSK and the 4 modes needed for VMS ? If8 not, can it be added, and if so, how long will it take ?  K IA64 is there until at least 2010. It would be most irinic if Alpha were tohN outline IA64, but I would not be surprised since VMS customers won't have much= incentive to drop Alpha until HP ceases to sell the machines.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:58:00 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipS, Message-ID: <3C6AB729.7B06E27A@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: O > 2) They wait and continue producing Alpha and PA-RISC speed bumps. EventuallyuO > losing all the customers. They may decide this is what they want ie they wantr; > to just become another PC company competing against DELL.m  C That is essentially what Carly and Culry have been saying since thee announcement of their wedding.K (OK, the first sentence is implied, but the second sentence is exactly what  they have openly been saying.)  K And this is in line with Compaq's previous policies , as outlined by one ofa the top cheeses: Winkler."  L There is no need to worry once the future is clear. VMS has about 5 years of3 steam left after which the decline will accelerate.i   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 08:02:17 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)tY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com 3 Message-ID: <OflI1gHHVQZW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3c697dc1_3@news.iglou.com>, "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@ixnayamspayiglou.com> writes:g > ; > My Quebbeman ancestors spoke Plattdeutsch, or Low german.a  G    Anywhere I can find a comparison between low german and high german?t2    The schools, of course, only teach high german.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:20:40 +0000s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      coms8 Message-ID: <910l6uouotihfn4ltsltvafaentn5uqnoh@4ax.com>  F On 13 Feb 2002 08:02:17 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  d >In article <3c697dc1_3@news.iglou.com>, "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@ixnayamspayiglou.com> writes: >> n< >> My Quebbeman ancestors spoke Plattdeutsch, or Low german. >rH >   Anywhere I can find a comparison between low german and high german?3 >   The schools, of course, only teach high german.   F I certainly recall we spent a little time on Plattdeutsch (Low German)@ at secondary (high school) in Scotland and that was just the "O"@ ordinary grade not the "H" higher grade follow on class.I'd haveC thought most German language courses would have at least touched ont it.s  C Of course it might have been emphasized in Scotland because some ofv? the Low German variations are closer to Scots (not Gaelic) thans standard English..  B In any case typing in Plattdeutsch to a search engine will pull up) loads of hits - most in German of course.s -- Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:28:07 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)eY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com , Message-ID: <a4e46n$21v0$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <OflI1gHHVQZW@eisner.encompasserve.org>,r0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:f |> In article <3c697dc1_3@news.iglou.com>, "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@ixnayamspayiglou.com> writes: |> > o> |> > My Quebbeman ancestors spoke Plattdeutsch, or Low german. |> tJ |>    Anywhere I can find a comparison between low german and high german?5 |>    The schools, of course, only teach high german.n |> o  7 You could compare that to me.  I only speak low german. ' My german has been described two ways: e        Wie ein kind. 4 And &        Wie ein Bauer aus dem Pfltz.     :-)1   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:50:05 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)aY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comi, Message-ID: <a4e5ft$21v0$4@info.cs.uofs.edu>  8 In article <910l6uouotihfn4ltsltvafaentn5uqnoh@4ax.com>,(  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:I |> On 13 Feb 2002 08:02:17 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 	 |> wrote:n |> eg |> >In article <3c697dc1_3@news.iglou.com>, "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@ixnayamspayiglou.com> writes:  |> >> ? |> >> My Quebbeman ancestors spoke Plattdeutsch, or Low german.v |> >K |> >   Anywhere I can find a comparison between low german and high german?n6 |> >   The schools, of course, only teach high german. |> 6I |> I certainly recall we spent a little time on Plattdeutsch (Low German)uC |> at secondary (high school) in Scotland and that was just the "O"sC |> ordinary grade not the "H" higher grade follow on class.I'd haveMF |> thought most German language courses would have at least touched on |> it.  @ Unless things have changed in the many years since I was in highB school 9and if they have, it would most likely not be in directionA of better education) american german teachers are totally unawaresC of any dialects in the language.  My high school taught german fromlD a book that only showed writting int he form of 100 year old script.C While I didn't learn German in school, shortly afterwards I had the'A good fortune to live there for a few years.  On my first return IhD visited my school and spoke with the German teacher, who had been myD senior home room teacher.  While I had no problem understanding her,D she could not understand most of what I said.  I had not been living in Berlin.  :-)e   |> aF |> Of course it might have been emphasized in Scotland because some ofB |> the Low German variations are closer to Scots (not Gaelic) than |> standard English..t |>  E |> In any case typing in Plattdeutsch to a search engine will pull up , |> loads of hits - most in German of course.  F But I think most of the dialectic differences are in pronunciation, so2 written examples probably don't provide much help.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   g   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:06:00 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r, Subject: Re: [even further off-topic] euro's; Message-ID: <01KE8DVKQO5U8Y7KQF@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>-  
 The facts:  H > See, I told you you'd suffer ~3% inflation if you joined the Euro :-)'  I The inflation rate(s) in Europe are largely independent of membership in f the single currency.  I > The Euro was doomed once it changed from polite window dressing for thetE > Bundesbank (sp?) to take over into the, uhh, political/bureaucraticyG > sludge that it has become.  But it (and now the Arentinian mess) makeF3 > great examples for my money & banking class . . .   C Whether or not one likes the Euro, the basic idea behind it hasn't t# changed in the last, say, 10 years.m  B > Once the rumor that the head of the central bank would step downJ > "voluntarily" half way through his term in favor of the french candidateC > wasn't dismissed out of hand, it was clear the Euro had failed.  a  I Rubbish.  This "stepping down voluntarily", which has been hinted at for cG a long time, has nothing to do with the success or failure of the Euro o? and more to do with balancing power between the various member o
 countries.   > Id> > really don't understand Germany's failure to pull out . . .   E That one is simple.  This is the price we paid for our sovereignty.  yE Pure and simple.  A referendum in Germany would have shown much more 0D opposition to the Euro than in Denmark or, probably, even England.  C But a referendum was never held.  The reason was that then France, sG England etc would have said "Germany is going its own way...again" and @H created fear.  Never mind that opposition to the Euro today has nothing D to do with Nazi Germany---this is an example of blatant racism such F folks are supposedly opposed to when they beat the "keep Germany low"  drum.A  E There were a lot of agreements---not all of them public---which were gG made to allow German reunification and the ending of the occupation by eH the allied troops.  Actually, the western allies had more problems with H the reunification than USSR/Russia.  Had Germany not agreed to go along D with the common currency etc, the allies would not have allowed the  reunification.   > and as forF > the rest of the countries, adopting the Dollar, Mark, or Pound would  > have been a better move . . .   I Except that one cannot just simply "adopt" a currency.  Sure, some small PF countries use another currency, or tie their currency to another, but F this is not an option for a country of any economic power---otherwise E one would get something (stability) for nothing (not contributing to   this stability).  I > Drifting even further off topic, I met a scottish economist last summeroH > at a conference who favored pulling the UK out of the EU entirely, and > joining NAFTA . . .b  F Actually, that would probably suit both the UK and the rest of Europe F better.  In many ways, the UK IS closer to the US than to the rest of H Europe (which, in the UK, is called "Europe", not "the rest of Europe".)  H Of course, while the cash for the common currency was introduced at the H beginning of the year, the exchange rates have been fixed for years, so I in essence we have had a common currency for some years now---and it was  1 more stable than the mark in the times before it.c  H Personally, I don't like the idea of the common currency, since it puts F the cart before the horse.  A common currency makes sense if and when G there is in some sense a common culture, which there is not.  However,  H whatever one's personal stance is, facts are facts, and it has not been 
 a failure.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:14:25 +0000 (UTC)d From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk, Subject: Re: [even further off-topic] euro's+ Message-ID: <a4e6th$5uc$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  w In article <01KE8DVKQO5U8Y7KQF@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:e >The facts:  >- >-I >Of course, while the cash for the common currency was introduced at the BI >beginning of the year, the exchange rates have been fixed for years, so PJ >in essence we have had a common currency for some years now---and it was 2 >more stable than the mark in the times before it. >yI >Personally, I don't like the idea of the common currency, since it puts PG >the cart before the horse.  A common currency makes sense if and when  H >there is in some sense a common culture, which there is not.  However, I >whatever one's personal stance is, facts are facts, and it has not been h >a failure.t >i  O It doesn't matter what you like. Give it say another few decades and there willrL be a single currency - for the whole world. The internet should see to that.G As it currently stands the single currency will probably be the dollar.l  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 10:00:34 -0800. From: David Gay <dgay@barnowl.CS.Berkeley.EDU>( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...5 Message-ID: <s71zo2duurh.fsf@barnowl.CS.Berkeley.EDU>   , Alexis Cousein <al@brussels.sgi.com> writes:   > Peter Finderup Lund wrote: > N > > French is similar (quatrevingsix, maybe I need some hyphens there), except > > afaik in Belgium.t > >  > except in Switzerland.  I In Geneva it IS quatrevingts (but not soixante-dix or quatrvingts-dix, toe really confuse everybody). r   -- r	 David Gaye dgay@acm.org   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.086 ************************y Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ----------Q    Q    ¹Q    ùQ    ĹQ    ŹQ    ƹQ    ǹQ    ȹQ    ɹQ    ʹQ    ˹Q    ̹Q    ͹Q    ιQ    ϹQ    йQ    ѹQ    ҹQ    ӹQ    ԹQ    չQ    ֹQ    ׹Q    عQ    ٹQ    ڹQ    ۹Q    ܹQ    ݹQ    ޹Q    ߹Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    