0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 14 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 87      Contents: Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Abbreviation dictionary  Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL  Re: Bug Check #03C0  Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve Carly interview on CNN Re: Carly interview on CNN Re: Carly interview on CNN Re: Carly interview on CNN DEC C 4.1 return default Re: DEC C 4.1 return default7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.  Galaxy cluster question  Re: Galaxy cluster question  Re: Galaxy cluster question ; Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?  Re: How to kill a hung process?  Re: How to kill a hung process?  Re: How to kill a hung process?  Re: license checksum info 8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime Re: Microsoft's financials Re: Microsoft's financials Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows" " Re: PIPE: sending commands to MAILE Re: SGI solicits Alpha customers to trade in their "orphaned" systems ! Re: TCPIP V5.1 eco 3 memory leaks % Re: UUID/GUID Source code for OpenVMS  Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics  Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics   VMS 7.3, DECnet IV, proxy access% Re: VMS users group in Columbus Ohio? P Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip) What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? # Re: [even further off-topic] euro's : [OT] MVS on a x86 PC, was: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:27:58 -0800) From: gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin)   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"= Message-ID: <4f886957.0202131227.4078b2f6@posting.google.com>   < > A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an: > inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and: > do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.   >  > David R. Beatty   < Does anybody know if this the same fellow who wrote the bookF "Engineering Intelligent Systems" from Digital Press?  The name sounds3 the same but I don't have the book here to look at.   	   -- Gary    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:47:45 GMT 0 From: trevor.osatchuk@pscl.com (Trevor Osatchuk)  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"4 Message-ID: <3c6aec94.15749837@news.telusplanet.net>  B On 13 Feb 2002 12:27:58 -0800, gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin) wrote:  = >> A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an ; >> inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and ; >> do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.    >>   >> David R. Beatty > = >Does anybody know if this the same fellow who wrote the book G >"Engineering Intelligent Systems" from Digital Press?  The name sounds 4 >the same but I don't have the book here to look at.   The name is the same anyway...  F Engineering intelligent Systems - Concepts, Theory and Applications / 1 Robert M. Glorioso; Osorio, Fernando C. Colon. -  ' Bedford, Mass.: Digital Press, 1980. -       > 
 >  -- Gary   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:44:27 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Abbreviation dictionary, Message-ID: <3C6AEC43.8D99EC96@videotron.ca>  K I am building an abbreviation dictionary with various expressions and words L and some abrreviation, in order to generate waypoint names of various sizes.   Consider the following text:  1 	ROYAL NATIONAL PARK SEWERAGE TREATMENT FACILITY    # This woudl need to be broken up as:   4 	Royal [national park] [sewerage treatment facility]    M I currently handle 2 word expressions by breaking up the expression and doing  individual lookups: G 	ROYAL NATIONAL,		ROYAL,	NATIONAL PARK,		NATIONAL,	PARK SEWERAGE,	PARK  @ 	SEWERAGE TREATMENT,	SEWERAGE,	TREATMENT PLANT,	TREATMENT,	PLANT  F The above will find NATIONAL PARK but not SEWERAGE TREATMENT FACILITY.  7 So I could add code to also lookup 3 word combinations.   H Is there a better way to lookup than to do succesive attempts at various combinations ?  J Ideally, I would like to be able to do "lower or equal" lookups with $GET:  C ROYAL NATIONAL PARK SEWERAGE TREATMENT FACILITY  would find "ROYAL"   F NATIONAL PARK SEWERAGE TREATMENT FACILITY		 would find "NATIONAL PARK"  E SEWERAGE TREATMENT FACILITY				would fine SEWERAGE TREATMENT FACILITY   1 How do the big guys like Alta-Vista handle this ?   M The one way I was thinking was to create a key that is mathematically derived  from the string : for instance:  for each letter, new letter = "Z" - letter.  K This would allow me to use the RMS "greater or equal". The one difficulty I L would have is that i would like to be able to use accented characters (which are much creater than "Z").    Any suggestions ?    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:22:21 -08003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> ( Subject: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL0 Message-ID: <qhit91c6he.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: E > Is the idea that OS/360 aka MVS is somehow "not successful" because 3 > people are not running a copy in their basement ?   8 MVS might be successful.  OS/360 is not, at the present.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:53:01 -0000  From: sword7@speakeasy.org Subject: Re: Bug Check #03C0/ Message-ID: <u6lv2tfev26bf5@corp.supernews.com>   + In comp.sys.dec sword7@speakeasy.org wrote: F > I am searching for the cause elsewhere before PROBE/BUGW problems.  D > I have to find the cause to able fix that bugs in my VAX emulator.6 > I will keep you posted later when something happens.  F Good news!  I was able narrowed down to the area that cause bug check B #3C0 and system-wide crash.  I carefully studied tracings from my E debug.log and found the problem.  DCL interpreter called system call  E throught CHME #0023 to print something on the console terminal.  Then D it called CHMK #0032 to submit a request to terminal driver to printB something.  After first interrupt from console device to tell thatA character was transmitted done, CHMK #0032 prematurely exited out A but terminal stream still was in effect until all characters were J transmitted.  When it was done, it sent software interrupt to IPL 8, then I 4, then final 2.  In IPL 2, it attempted to return results but CHMK #0032 7 already exited and instead jumped into Bug Check #03C0.   D On my VAX emulator (TS10), I tested it by set transmit delay to zeroF to block CHMK #32 from prematurely exits and all problems disappeared!J But.... STARTUP.INS now printed information about model, free blocks, cpu J type, etc.. Then it asked me for date/time 2nd time to enter.  I did that > and it crashed the same with Bug Check #3C0 (same bug hit)....  B I am still working on it to find a bug around first interrupt from4 console device for both input and output direction.    -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:22:57 -0800) From: gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin) % Subject: Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve ; Message-ID: <4f886957.0202131222.cb3c73@posting.google.com>   k gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) wrote in message news:<a4b3hf$q8d$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>...  > Hello, > N > currently I am using C-Kermit 7.0.197 to retrieve HTML documents from withinO > DCL. Now I would like to do the same for binary files, e.g. a .GIF . But here K > I don't succeed. I had a look at the new 8.0 version and noticed, that it K > includes full HTTP support but in Unix only :-(  Why? And is there really 5 > no way to achieve a HTTP retrieve of a binary file.  > E This is a long standing interst area of mine becuase two of the Big 3 > car companies use HTTP to get and post electronic invoices and@ shipping info to their suppliers and vice versa.  We sell a veryA sophisticated Win2K app to do this but I would love to give VMS a D boost by having a VMS application to do this better.  I have an HTTPF Get and Post app written in C that we did before we decided to do thisD in NT.  It is not very sophisticated and I don't have a lot of spareD time  but if I had some help maybe it would be less of a chore.  How/ much real iterest is there in this type of app?   C Anybody know if Digital's Research Lab WebL ever got ported to VMS?   	   -- Gary    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 17:32:40 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)% Subject: Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve 1 Message-ID: <a4epi8$ltn$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   ; In article <4f886957.0202131222.cb3c73@posting.google.com>, * Gary Morin <gary.morin@emergis.com> wrote:/ : gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ? : wrote in message news:<a4b3hf$q8d$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>... I : > currently I am using C-Kermit 7.0.197 to retrieve HTML documents from M : > within DCL. Now I would like to do the same for binary files, e.g. a .GIF G : > . But here I don't succeed. I had a look at the new 8.0 version and M : > noticed, that it includes full HTTP support but in Unix only :-( Why? And G : > is there really no way to achieve a HTTP retrieve of a binary file.  : > G : This is a long standing interst area of mine becuase two of the Big 3 @ : car companies use HTTP to get and post electronic invoices andB : shipping info to their suppliers and vice versa.  We sell a veryC : sophisticated Win2K app to do this but I would love to give VMS a F : boost by having a VMS application to do this better.  I have an HTTPH : Get and Post app written in C that we did before we decided to do thisF : in NT.  It is not very sophisticated and I don't have a lot of spareF : time  but if I had some help maybe it would be less of a chore.  How1 : much real iterest is there in this type of app?  : / First take a look at what the Kermit code does:   4   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit80.html#x2.2  K Read all of section 2.2, including its subsections.  Then if you have Linux 2 or some other form of Unix, download C-Kermit 8.0:  !   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/   M and give it a spin.  It's all there, it already works.  If you think it would H nice to have this in VMS too, the code is all written, it's just "simpleG matter of porting".   The relevant sections are the dohttp() routine in / ckuusr.c and the http_*() routines in ckcnet.c.   G If you also want secure HTTP connections, you'll need to interface with J OpenSSL.  I understand OpenSSL was ported to VMS a couple years ago, whichI should make it a "small matter of porting" the ck_ssl.[ch] and associated I modules.  Anybody who wants to jump into this, please contact me first so  work can be coordinated.   - Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:49:44 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> % Subject: Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve , Message-ID: <3C6AED80.97DBB4B7@videotron.ca>   Frank da Cruz wrote:O > and give it a spin.  It's all there, it already works.  If you think it would J > nice to have this in VMS too, the code is all written, it's just "simpleI > matter of porting".   The relevant sections are the dohttp() routine in 1 > ckuusr.c and the http_*() routines in ckcnet.c.   J Mr da Cruz, I have much respect and appreciation for what you do. But I amM quite puzzled as to why the HTTP code would need to be ported.  If Kermit-VMS B is already able to SET NET TCP and run scripts etc to access TCPIPI connections,   why couldn't the HTTP module take advantage of the already N available services that allow other parts of Kermit to use TCPIP connections ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:30:28 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Carly interview on CNN , Message-ID: <3C6AF709.30521263@videotron.ca>    HP better than expected results.  W Solid execution across the board. Lots of cost controls.  Strength of holiday spending.   % Digital imaging starting to take off.   0 Consumer strong, enterprise spending still slow.  ( Printer business continues to be strong.  N Carly has already done the cleanup at HP (cost cutting). (This would mean thatH the 2.5 billion in cutbacks after the takeover would be done at Compaq).  J "Momentum shifting in our favour" (when talking about takeover of Compaq).  0 "Merger of consolidation" not "diversification".  C Lou Dobbs : says the 2 are PC companies . Carly  didn't like that.    4 PC, NT, Unix, Linux, Storage are mentioned by Carly.  I Mentioned taking Compaq's commercial PC server and integrating it to HP's  existing business.$ (no other Compaq products mentioned)  N Integration planning is almost done due to the 450 full time integration staffN having worked since september and fewer having worked before the announcement. Product road maps are complete.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:32:17 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: Carly interview on CNN , Message-ID: <3C6AF776.189A15D2@videotron.ca>   I hit SEND too quickly:   7 Immediatly after the interview, cut over to commercial.   $ Someone's stolen all our servers...  Empty computer room...@ Geek says "no, we consolidated everything on that one server"...   IBM LINUX server advert...    5 Gotta give it to IBM for good placement of their ad !    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:43:38 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Carly interview on CNN A Message-ID: <_KDa8.17061$LY3.1635570@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C6AF709.30521263@videotron.ca..." > HP better than expected results.  J I stumbled onto the interview while channel-surfing.  It's easy to see howJ she got where she is:  *very* believable delivery, despite the fact that a= lot of what she says may well qualify as 'sheer fantasy' (see * http://www.theinquirer.net/12020205.htm ).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:02:02 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: Carly interview on CNN , Message-ID: <3C6B44C6.1A737F5D@videotron.ca>   Additional tidbit:  M Carly says that by end of 2003, $2 billion in costs will have been saved, and ' an additional $500 million during 2004.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:32:07 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: DEC C 4.1 return default 9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEDFECAA.tom@kednos.com>   . under 4.1 was the default value of a return 1?  = Have a routine of type int that has return values every where ( except at the end, where it simply reads return;   6 Dec C 6.0 wants a value, compiling with /standard=vaxc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:17:15 -0500 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>% Subject: Re: DEC C 4.1 return default - Message-ID: <3C6A918B.17264.8E2C65@localhost>   0 > under 4.1 was the default value of a return 1? > ? > Have a routine of type int that has return values every where * > except at the end, where it simply reads	 > return;  > 8 > Dec C 6.0 wants a value, compiling with /standard=vaxc  F According to the ANSI C standard, there is no default value.  It's an E error to not return something when the function's supposed to return  4 something.  What happens is implementation-specific.  
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:51:52 GMTv" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.1 Message-ID: <stza8.1146$Yf1.5731@typhoon.bart.nl>T  : A very long time ago a nice company called Digital sent me8 a book that listed VMS applications. Must have been 6000 applications in there at least.  It was a very heavy book :-) Ah, those were the days...  
 Hans Vlems  ; Sue Skonetski <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message ) news:Uuua8.67$1h5.219@news.cpqcorp.net... - > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?a >y > Suer >e >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:17:49 -0500r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>p@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.2 Message-ID: <URza8.12810$X2.146951@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  K Hi Sue, friend, buddy, nice person, I'm wondering if you can help me with aiL small favor? You see, I'm trying to win a small gift and need an answer to aI question. If you could tell me how many 3rd party applications run on VMSCI then I could post the answer and win. So how about it? As a favor for me?p
 :):):):):)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:44:44 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.@ Message-ID: <g7Ba8.13338$UQ.1328536@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  G <zessin@decus.de> wrote in message news:00A09830.24F9F023.2@decus.de...e > Sue Skonetski asked:/ > > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?  >p3 > Not enough? I think you already have my address -n% >  I'll look into my box tomorrow ;-)h  L Clearly the correct answer:  it came to my mind immediately, but I only just7 got around to reading c.o.v. today, so congratulations!    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:10:03 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e  Subject: Galaxy cluster question- Message-ID: <%uBa8.772$rL.225@news1.bloor.is>:  L Is the following do-able in a Galaxy disaster-tolerant configuration? Assume' shared RAID, etc..... in the following.R  
 Location A Local Cluster A  -----------------o/ 2 Galaxy-capable machines each with say 10cpu'siL Each machine is divided into 2 VMS instances, with VMS instance 1 on machine. 1 'clustered' with VMS instance 1 on machine 2K so in location, cluster, machine, instance notation we have --> (A,A,1,1) +o
 (A,A,2, 1)  G Plain english - 2 machines, 4 partitions, one partition on each machine-I acting as a cluster to provide local fault tolerance to a TP application.aE The other partitions on each machine are 'standalone' non-cooperatings" batch/print or other applications.      , Location B ( 200km distance from Location A) Local Cluster A  ----------------/ 2 Galaxy-capable machines each with say 10cpu'ssL Each machine is divided into 2 VMS instances, with VMS instance 1 on machine. 1 'clustered' with VMS instance 1 on machine 2K so in location, cluster, machine, instance notation we have --> (B,A,1,1) +e
 (B,A,2, 1)  G Plain english - 2 machines, 4 partitions, one partition on each machine?K acting as a cluster to provide local fault tolerance to the TP application.hE The other partitions on each machine are 'standalone' non-cooperatingp" batch/print or other applications.      J I now want to have the cluster in Location B load-share/hot-backup/cluster= with the cluster in Location A for wide area fault-tolerance.   I Sorry for the lousy descriptions. It's been a long time since I've had totI think about wide-area clusters and throwing Glalaxy into the mix is a bitvG beyond what I have had experience with in the past. Just want to get myrL thinking straight on all this. If it's do-able, what limitations might exist in the configurations?   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:35:17 -0500h2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)$ Subject: Re: Galaxy cluster questionK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1302022235180001@1cust203.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   : In article <%uBa8.772$rL.225@news1.bloor.is>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:E  M >Is the following do-able in a Galaxy disaster-tolerant configuration? Assume ( >shared RAID, etc..... in the following. >E >Location AE >Local Cluster A >-----------------0 >2 Galaxy-capable machines each with say 10cpu'sM >Each machine is divided into 2 VMS instances, with VMS instance 1 on machine / >1 'clustered' with VMS instance 1 on machine 2eL >so in location, cluster, machine, instance notation we have --> (A,A,1,1) + >(A,A,2, 1)Y > H >Plain english - 2 machines, 4 partitions, one partition on each machineJ >acting as a cluster to provide local fault tolerance to a TP application.F >The other partitions on each machine are 'standalone' non-cooperating# >batch/print or other applications.s >t >a >a- >Location B ( 200km distance from Location A)f >Local Cluster A >----------------t0 >2 Galaxy-capable machines each with say 10cpu'sM >Each machine is divided into 2 VMS instances, with VMS instance 1 on machinet/ >1 'clustered' with VMS instance 1 on machine 2rL >so in location, cluster, machine, instance notation we have --> (B,A,1,1) + >(B,A,2, 1)5 >:H >Plain english - 2 machines, 4 partitions, one partition on each machineL >acting as a cluster to provide local fault tolerance to the TP application.F >The other partitions on each machine are 'standalone' non-cooperating# >batch/print or other applications.c >f >  >aK >I now want to have the cluster in Location B load-share/hot-backup/clusterc> >with the cluster in Location A for wide area fault-tolerance. >-J >Sorry for the lousy descriptions. It's been a long time since I've had toJ >think about wide-area clusters and throwing Glalaxy into the mix is a bitH >beyond what I have had experience with in the past. Just want to get myM >thinking straight on all this. If it's do-able, what limitations might existt >in the configurations?y  E "Guidelines for Cluster Configurations" is still kept up-to-date.  It I explains the possibilities in detail.  Also check the Alpha Galaxy Guide.0  G If I understand your description, what you want to do is possible.  FornG clustering, each instance in a galaxy behaves like a separate node.  So 3 you have 2 nodes at location A and 2 at location B.e  O The "unusual" features of this configuration from a clustering perspective are:.H 1. You can move resources from one cluster to another easily, within theF galaxy system.  If workloads change during the day/week/month, you can< push CPUs and memory to where they are needed at the moment.  F 2. Since the instances within a box share a lot of hardware, they willJ both tend to fail at the same time.  Two completely separate systems wouldJ be more reliable, but you would not have the flexibility to move resources back and forth on the fly.   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:02:28 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)o$ Subject: Re: Galaxy cluster question= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0202132102.43b6a7ec@posting.google.com>   X "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message news:<%uBa8.772$rL.225@news1.bloor.is>...N > Is the following do-able in a Galaxy disaster-tolerant configuration? Assume) > shared RAID, etc..... in the following.k ...- > Location A ...>. > Location B ( 200km distance from Location A) ...-L > I now want to have the cluster in Location B load-share/hot-backup/cluster? > with the cluster in Location A for wide area fault-tolerance.   F Sounds feasible.  200km is within the circa-250km distance for supportE by VMS out-of-the-box, without a requirement for DTCS (formerly BRS),3C according to the OpenVMS Cluster Software SPD.  But this is still a F relatively long-distance cluster.  You might want to read the materialE I have about disaster-tolerant and long-distance clusters in my DECUSt/ seminar on 'VMS Clusters: Advanced Concepts' atnB http://www.geocities.com/keithparris/ .  The sessions on 'BRS User( Experiences' might also be enlightening.  F The first piece of the puzzle to figure out is what type (and cost) ofB inter-site link(s) you will use.  Knowing how much storage will beF shadowed across sites will help you size the bandwidth requirements of the inter-site link(s).   A By "shared RAID" were you thinking conventional host-based volume E shadowing, or Fibre Channel based disk controllers with an inter-sitep FC-over-ATM link?e  K > Sorry for the lousy descriptions. It's been a long time since I've had toeK > think about wide-area clusters and throwing Glalaxy into the mix is a bitgI > beyond what I have had experience with in the past. Just want to get my N > thinking straight on all this. If it's do-able, what limitations might exist > in the configurations?  @ I'd carefully examine what specifically it is you need Galaxy to
 achieve here.l  5 In my experience, hard and soft partitions complicate B high-availability planning significantly.  With soft partitions, aC failure in shared memory can take down multiple Galaxy instances at-? once.  Even with hard partitions, there are still some hardwarenF failures which can affect multiple hard partitions, and there are someE maintenance operations which require that all the partitions in a box3E be down at once (console firmware upgrades, for example).  This hurtsaC availability.  So for highest-availability applications I think you:A need good reasons why multiple partitions within a single box areC9 beneficial -- enough to outweigh the potential drawbacks.n? ---------------------------------------------------------------I? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:e> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:26:21 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202132026.4857ccd9@posting.google.com>d  H I have been trying to get Compaq to answer this question, along w/HP ...H Capellas, Marcellas have been quiet, as has Carly ... how irresponsible!E They don't even respond to a serious question posed about where their I best os customer base goes if itanic dies ... do they restart alpha? doestL intel just develop alpha and forget itanic (this would make the most sense)?E We need answers to plan for the future Compaq!  Were is Sue or Terry?s) No one is providing info or answers here!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:47:45 -0500m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>.H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?, Message-ID: <3C6B416E.C0669191@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > J > I have been trying to get Compaq to answer this question, along w/HP ...J > Capellas, Marcellas have been quiet, as has Carly ... how irresponsible!  K Trust them. they know what they are doing and are fully confident that theyuH are on track with their long term plans. They many not need an alternateN solution for VMS. It is pointless to bother them with such stuff. Let them getI on with their job and let them execute the plans that they have laid out.oI Their message is pretty clear. If you don't like it, tought luck. As somej? Compaq employees have been know to tell customers: get over it.e  M And since Compaq-VMS employees are fully confident that , despite the lack of4L mention of VMS by Carly, the future of VMS is secure, then we have no choiceJ but to believe those VMS engineers who have access to far more information than we do.    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:02:57 GMT- From: ukgaragescene@aol.com (UK Garage Scene)h( Subject: Re: How to kill a hung process?9 Message-ID: <20020213140257.24894.00000280@mb-fj.aol.com>p   Have you tried using:c $ stop proc/id=PID ???s   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:16:34 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org( Subject: Re: How to kill a hung process?3 Message-ID: <ooOIakmW93UY@eisner.encompasserve.org>N  i In article <20020213140257.24894.00000280@mb-fj.aol.com>, ukgaragescene@aol.com (UK Garage Scene) writes:  > Have you tried using:c > $ stop proc/id=PID  A Note that there is no such keyword as "PROCESS" on the STOP verb.-5 There is an optional process name parameter, however.F  @ The original poster mentioned the use of $DELPRC.  Which is what
 STOP uses.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:02:14 -0500o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: How to kill a hung process?, Message-ID: <3C6B0C96.6020407@tsoft-inc.com>   UK Garage Scene wrote:   > Have you tried using:i > $ stop proc/id=PID > ???  >   - I must be is one of 'those' moods today.  :-)i  # When all else fails, pull the plug.l   -- c4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:06:06 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)" Subject: Re: license checksum infoK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1302022206070001@1cust203.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>g  O In article <00A0972E.01968650@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:t    " >My answer was terse but concise.    Eh?c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:10:51 GMT-1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>FA Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimew' Message-ID: <3C6B3A51.E080A91E@fsi.net>v   "Mark E. Levy" wrote:D > N > Dontcha remember David? We had two 750s running in a cluster under 3.7. Full< > clustering with the lock manager  didn't show up 'til 4.0. > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3C69DFE8.9323D03F@fsi.net...iD > > AFAIK, V3.x pre-dates VAXCLUSTER by a couple or three years, no?  B Hhmmm... Y'know, I wonder if you and I didn't INVENT clustering at AHI...  H Seriously - OPEN "node::ddcu:<dir>file.ext" FOR INPUT AS FILE #x was theH method, and compared to today's 100BaseT and FC/SF, I *SHUDDER* to think/ about accessing files via DECnet over Ethernet.2  @ Too bad you can't find the VAX BASIC sources for the TOC System,F including all the stuff I wrote to read/write magtapes for order inputC and billing (output). What a gas it would be to look at *THAT* codea today, huh?    -- s David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems( http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:10:29 -0800% From: rnturn@baxter.com (Rick Turner)w# Subject: Re: Microsoft's financialsF< Message-ID: <9697b9e2.0202131410.ce1ca95@posting.google.com>   Regarding the comment:  C > And another - According to an ABC News 1/22/99 article by Michael4I > Martinez, Microsoft's own internal auditor, a respected 30 year veteran0D > and former partner of Deloitte and Touche, was fired in 1996 afterI > informing management that their earnings manipulations were illegal and & > violations of the SEC and FASB laws. > 6 > The URL is http://billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html > H > I make no judgement on the story but it does look interesting.  I alsoF > wonder what the impact would be on Compaq if Microsoft came unstuck.H > (AFAIK Compaq also issues stock options but I don't believe the number  > is anywhere near Microsoft's.) >  > 
 > John McLeans    See the story on The Register at5 URL=http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24046.html   ? Sounds like the SEC is paying attention after all.  Perhaps Mr.h? Parrish's allegations might have spurred some inquiries into MS " finances.  Could be interesting...   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2002 04:57:20 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t# Subject: Re: Microsoft's financialsp' Message-ID: <a4fg3g$bjr$1@joe.rice.edu>s  & Rick Turner (rnturn@baxter.com) wrote:" : See the story on The Register at7 : URL=http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24046.html1 :6A : Sounds like the SEC is paying attention after all.  Perhaps Mr.tA : Parrish's allegations might have spurred some inquiries into MS.$ : finances.  Could be interesting...  A    http://money.cnn.com/2002/02/13/technology/microsoft/index.htmv<    Report: SEC probes Microsoft's statements - Feb. 13, 2002  	    [snip]f  G   "The investigation was apparently sparked by former Microsoft auditoraI    Charles Pancerzewski, who sued the company for wrongful termination innI    1997 and later settled with the company. Pancerzewski, who says he wasvH    terminated for complaining about accounting practices, told the paper'    he last talked to the SEC last year.   E    He disputed that underestimating revenue and income would not hurtaC    investors, arguing that a company doing so would allow it to use-H    reserves it built up on the books to show earnings growth that it had    not truly achieved.  H    The paper cites an e-mail, disclosed during Pancerzewski's suit, thatI    former Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Michael Brown sent to company G    Chairman Bill Gates in which he said, "I believe we should do all wegF    can to smooth our earnings and keep a steady state earnings model."  D    Shares of Microsoft (MSFT: Research, Estimates)  lost 99 cents to    $60.14 in trading Tuesday."    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:39:03 GMTt* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"A Message-ID: <X1Ba8.15562$eS3.1496679@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>>  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:8abZ0BbQjnMY@eisner.encompasserve.org... A > In article <zWpqPAxN2DpuwomlNbATt9ATnAYW@4ax.com>, David Beatty * <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes: > > F > >     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section? > > of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002; = > > it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.-> > > A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an< > > inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and: > > do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K. >iE > Pardon my cynicism, but I thought he was a marketing vice president. > rather than an engineer.  L Comments I've heard from people who knew him suggest that he was technicallyL astute, regardless of what his title may have been (though my impression wasL that it was a relatively high-level engineering one at least at some point).  J Marathon has created an effective fix for the 'Heisenbugs' in NT, and thatL appears sufficient to deliver the desired availability as long as the systemI is treated with kid gloves (e.g., running only a single application - and J that of course a well-debugged one).  Systems like VMS that have orders ofH magnitude fewer Heisenbugs would not benefit to anywhere nearly the sameK degree from the Marathon architecture (a key element of which appears to be J the avoidance of Heisenbugs in NT's I/O subsystems).  Conversely, a systemK as buggy as NT might not benefit nearly as much from a truly fault-tolerantnE architecture such as Stratus' or Tandem's, since a fair percentage of H Heisenbugs can show up simultaneously on both elements of a lock-stepped redundant system.l  H The main difference between attaining such decent availability on NT andI attaining it using a much solider system is that the solider system needsoA only 2 active nodes rather than 4, since it can handle I/O eventsnJ competently.  That tends to nullify much if not all of the price advantageJ of using the 'industry-standard' but buggy components.  But for those PHBsL who know that only Windows can do the job, Marathon has excellent answers to< a significant set of availability issues associated with NT.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:59:43 -0500t( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows", Message-ID: <3C6B0BFF.9050408@tsoft-inc.com>   David Beatty wrote:g    7 > He might very well be, but the product does exist ands( > apparently many customers swear by it.  $ There is still a Flat Earth Society.  I Bill Gates is P.T.Barnum's successor, at least with respect to the quote n commonly attributed to him.    -- n4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:20:07 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C6B3C7F.EF39374C@fsi.net>    David Beatty wrote:m > D >     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" section= > of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;h; > it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.g< > A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created an: > inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and= > do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  Thes< > configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used> > ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be > interesting.   "Crashless"???!!!n  F The article itself identifies the problem: Windows crashes frequently.  4 This product doesn't solve the problem, it masks it.   Band-aid solution, at best.    --   David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 19:01:06 GMT- From: ukgaragescene@aol.com (UK Garage Scene) + Subject: Re: PIPE: sending commands to MAILe9 Message-ID: <20020213140106.24894.00000279@mb-fj.aol.com>l   You can use the  $ mail 'file' 'user' dL command to simply send a straight file within mail to a user.  of course youN can adjust this i.e. If you wanted the .com to send yourself a report you have" created using the com you can use:% $ mail 'file' f$getjpi("","USERNAME")oH This useful if you are writing the com for Menu driven restricted users.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:20:29 GMT3 From: bobd@araminta.uts.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)tN Subject: Re: SGI solicits Alpha customers to trade in their "orphaned" systems: Message-ID: <a4elat$8mu$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  F David Mathog  <mathog@caltech.edu> carefully crafted electrons to say: > E > Considering that we're also trying _REALLY HARD_ to get off our fewrA > remaining SGI systems this is very funny.  SGI recently mangled I > their previously quite nice academic program into something that nobodyn@ > yet understands - other than that it is going to cost more.     @ Ah yes, the mysterious lurking EduSnare jabberwocky. The first IF learned about it was in my periodic checking of links on my web server9 last Fall.  The one for the the VP instead dropped into a G discontinuance announcement, telling us that our fiendly SGI corpserate-F rep had filled us in on all the details a month or two before (*noone*E here that I've talked to had heard anything from them). And that evernG so ambiguous link for the pseudo-replacement by Mr. EduScare, with its'BF link for "more details" off to an amorphorous blob of Corporate-speek.C Fah. A talk with an SGI Corporate dronette (something to be avoidedtA whenever feasible -- usually rather easily done as they're almostaE always off being retrained, off at a conference, off at school, in annE all-day meeting, recently downsized, and only return calls during thewC EST noon-oneish lunch window or after hours in EST time, since theyiD think the world revolves around PST) yielded what is purported to beD the answer to life, the compuverse and everything. In MS Wurd formatC (which, IMHO, speaks volumes as to the focus) no less. I'll have toYF drag it over to StarOffice to read it when I have the opportunity. TheD hints planted by dronette were that just the media cost (since everyE individual participant seems to need the media) for the equivalent ofnC the "developer" level of the VP will run on the order of perhaps ascC much as four times the cost for VP renewals per year.  This did notl8 include the licensing/support portions of the cost as I B (possibly mis-)understood it. Fortunately, locally the PO had beenE issued prior to the VP renewal date back last August, so we get to betF VP participants until this August. Today a campus SGI user informed meG of a call from someone within SGI asking what option he wants to pursuecF when the program changes this coming July (implication being that thisE mutant may be about to mutate yet again, since technically Mr. Ed has ! been in place since last August).a  E BTW, the supposed justification for this, as I recall hearing it fromeD dronette, is that some institutions are alleged to have used the oldF program to make a profit for themselves.  The counter question of "whyF not just add EC then, as an individual purchasing option for those whoG want direct support, or feel they're being taken advantage of, and keepeG the VP for the folks who like that way of doing things?" has yielded noa response of which I am aware.h  F I'm very afraid Dave Olson may have turned out the lights when he leftE (not that they hadn't been flickering for quite a while before that).     J ==========================================================================9               Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U'sh  ?         "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:34:59 -0500-- From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org>-* Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.1 eco 3 memory leaks+ Message-ID: <sc6a87bf.071@AAASMTA.aaas.org>i  I Has big Q acknowledged this problem yet? Do we anticipate a fix anytime =- soon?   L I'm not experiencing this particular problem, but I am having the LAN V3.0 =E problem I mentioned last week. Seems like I might be the only one.=20s  L I'm torn between the IT notion of "Patch Early and Often" and "If it ain't =L broke, don't fix it". I've been burned enough by the former that I'm going = to try the latter for a while.  F >>> Martin Platts <martin.platts@cdl.co.uk> 02/13/2002 12:12:17 PM >>>D Theres a similar leak in V5.0a ECO 3 as well - with similar patches.B Another way to see the fault is to do a "show service telnet/full"F (our users mainly use telnet, but I guess its wider than that) and youF see more "active" connections than there should be - until it hits the? "limit" you've set then users get i/o channel errors. I've seen2> systems with 3 or 4 "TELNET" capable devices with 40-50 active connections (gradually grows).  B V5.0A ECO 3 needs new TCPIP$BGDRIVER.EXE and new TCPIP$INETACP.EXE  D V5.1 ECO 3 needs the same files and also TCPIP$INTERNET_SERVICES.EXE% (it provides new .STB files as well).    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:23:32 +0000 (UTC)l, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c0m>. Subject: Re: UUID/GUID Source code for OpenVMS1 Message-ID: <a4eshj$kg1$1@knossos.btinternet.com>n   Hi,a  L A couple of other routines that you might find useful that I don't think are documented anywhere.   identification division. program-id.    cvt_tid.t data division. working-storage section.K 01  ss$_normal         pic 9(9)        comp    value   external ss$_normal. . 01  sys_status           pic 9(9)        comp. *p' 01  tid                      pic x(16). $ 01  out_tid               pic x(36).$ 01  bin_tid               pic x(16). *e procedure division.l 00.t6     call "sys$create_uid" using tid giving sys_status."     if sys_status not = ss$_normal2         call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status.       call "lib$uid_to_ascii"a#         using   by reference    tidl*                    by descriptor   out_tid         giving  sys_status.m"     if sys_status not = ss$_normal2         call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status.       display "TID = ", out_tid.       call "lib$ascii_to_uid"o'         using   by descriptor   out_tids*                    by reference    bin_tid         giving  sys_status.0"     if sys_status not = ss$_normal2         call "lib$stop" using by value sys_status.  .     if bin_tid = tid display "They're equal!". *  fini.t
     stop run.  *h end program cvt_tid.  J Also Jim might be in the mood to give his personal cast iron gurantee thatL the last 6 bytes of a TID are architecturally specified and will *always* beL the scsnodename of the caller of  $create_uid (either directly or indirectly via $start_trans etc)i   >What is DECdtm?  K Disbelief ! For one thing it's the product that's about to do more than its0. fair share when it comes to saving VMS's arse!   Regards Richard Maher.  8 Warren Spencer <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:91B38DD74warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100... D > Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) wrote in' > <3c69469b.28269058@news.demon.co.uk>:x >2A > >Use SYS$CREATE_UID, which has been documented in the DECdtm V2iD > >documentation, although it's been in the system since about V5.4. > >- > >Jim.- > >- >- > G > Thanks Jim.  Can't find SYS$CREATE_UID in the system services manual.R What > is DECdtm? >c > ws >c > >cE > >On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:52:18 -0000, wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warrens > >Spencer) wrote: > >a
 > >>Hi Folks,E > >>E > >>Does anyone have source code available for generating UUID's (akawI > >>GUID's) on OpenVMS, preferably in C or C++?  We've found a unix-basedhC > >>one, but we're hoping to avoid the porting effort - it's prettym > >>platform specific. > >>B > >>We're also looking at DCE (which I believe has this capabilityH > >>built-in), but I would like to have the source code option available > >>too, if possible.u > >> > >>Thanks,u > >> > >>ws > >> > >>-- > >> > >>Warren Spencer+ > >>Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)e > >>The Associated Press > >>@ > >>** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. ** > >- > >Jim Johnson > >Software Exploration, Ltd.?, > >(remove '.nospam' from the reply address) > >N >T > -- >n > Warren Spencer) > Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)O > The Associated Press > > > ** Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a bananna. **   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 02:15:36 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)C  Subject: Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics/ Message-ID: <3c6afa2a.5572172@news.wcc.govt.nz>n  E On 13 Feb 2002 18:39:29 GMT, "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote:,  I >Is it true that we must use Windows to view diagnostics on OpenVMS v7.3? 4 >Gone are the days of $ANALYZE/ERROR and $DIAGNOSE ?   No it's not true. @ If you've got DECEvent installed it still works with 7.3 without( needing any kind of windows environment.   diagnose/interactive diagnose/translate/summary   all work as they shoulda   >s7 >How do we monitor errors via a serial line connection?e > 1 >Should Compaq provide us a command line product?4 > 4 >My opinion does not necessarily reflect the opinion# >of my employer nor its management.n >o( >Jim Strehlow, Data911, JimS@data911.com >Alameda, CA >  >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:05:01 GMTo' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>s  Subject: Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics0 Message-ID: <v5df4a.den.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   Rob Buxton wrote:e  G > On 13 Feb 2002 18:39:29 GMT, "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote:m > J >>Is it true that we must use Windows to view diagnostics on OpenVMS v7.3?5 >>Gone are the days of $ANALYZE/ERROR and $DIAGNOSE ?M >  > No it's not true.nB > If you've got DECEvent installed it still works with 7.3 without* > needing any kind of windows environment. >  > diagnose/interactive > diagnose/translate/summary >  > all work as they shouldo >   = Unless you have an ES40 or some other newer EV6-based system.-           Stu4   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:58:10 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)D) Subject: VMS 7.3, DECnet IV, proxy accesse3 Message-ID: <quYEeCt$bHdw@eisner.encompasserve.org>R    Alpha VMS V7.3, DECnet Phase IV.  @ I've been scratching my head about this one, and haven't figured= out what I'm doing wrong.  I'm trying to set up proxies on myi+ home machines so that if on nodeb I type...i   $ dir nodea::disk:[dir]   ? without the username and password string, it will work.  In thee? old days of netproxy.dat it was a simple matter to put a proxy 0< record in authorize, maybe do a mc ncp set known prox all toA reset the DECnet db, and check for old netserver network links toh; make sure the request wasn't being satisfied by an existingtA process.  Without the explicit username/password in the command I  get the fal$server directory.  p  : Now with net$proxy.dat which authorize uses, but DECnet IV= doesn't seem to, I have an entry for *::myusername myusernamew: (D).  This used to be enough so that any node could access> myusername as long as the originating username was myusername.  > Do I have to add a record to the old proxy to make this work? A I've probably forgotten something important, but then again, if It> remembered it you wouldn't be seeing this post, right?  As you9 can probably guess, it's been a long time since I've donee something like this.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:39:11 -0500"+ From: "Robert Schaefer" <rschaefe@gcfn.org>s. Subject: Re: VMS users group in Columbus Ohio?7 Message-ID: <a4efb7$qs3$1@ronco.freenet.columbus.oh.us>t  2 "Peter Kukla" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message8 news:NDZ98.37632$s43.11843059@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...9 > I've been looking around, but haven't been able to finds7 > anything resembling a VMS user's group in the Centralc< > Ohio area.  Does anybody know whether such a thing exists?  H Sounds like there are enough of us to do something about it ourselves...! Know any good places to eat?  ^_^d   >t >  > Thanks...@ >r > -peter   Bobw   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:41:06 GMTu* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipc@ Message-ID: <6YBa8.14478$UQ.1386850@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  + <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagen% news:a4eakb$78f$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...s7 > In article <3C6AA5DC.41B64954@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeii& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:" > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:J > >> systems. My bet would be that HP would cut their losses and drop IA64 pretty! > >> soon after Intel dropped it.t  K I recall recently reading somewhere (in other words, I'm in no way vouchingeL for this) that HP contemplated sinking Itanic a while ago but that Intel was/ adamant about continuing.  Interesting if true.r  J > >And go where ? They've burned their bridges.  They're committed to IA64	 big time.i  G PA-RISC still runs quite respectably, and the dual-core 8800 IIRC is atwI least somewhat credible competition for POWER4.  Considering how well SuneL does with ho-hum processor performance, I suspect HP could live successfullyF with PA-RISC for most of the rest of this decade - in fact, I stronglyI suspect that HP will *have* to live successfully with PA-RISC for most ofmL the rest of this decade, because that's how long it will take to make Itanic; competitive (assuming Intel doesn't pull the plug instead).n  J > For their "main business" PCs no problem - follow Intel's lead (or AMD's lead). >  > For the rest >  > Two choices. >u* > 1) They start looking at a PLAN B now !!) >    Possibilities that spring to mind :-s >d$ >    a) Restart development on Alpha  H That depends heavily on details of the deal with Intel plus just how farI along EV8 design had progressed before the exodus.  It could be eminentlyd$ feasible, or effectively impossible.    >    b) Investigate AMD's Hammer  J Hammer could be the wild card that changes everything:  EV7-quality systemL architecture with a high-performance but 'industry-standard' heart.  Give itI a couple of enterprise-quality operating systems and who knows what might-J happen?  IIRC its MP linkage appears to be designed to handle only up to 8K processor packages, but with dual cores in each that certainly includes theeK sweet spot for MP as long as one finds effective ways to use such groupingss in larger configurations..  L Of course, AMD could screw it up somehow, which makes committing to it scaryJ (though not as scary as committing to Itanic is starting to look).  But ifL they do even a half-decent job it could dominate everything but the high endB (and with some good system engineering might handle that as well).  ! >    c) Investigate IBM's Power 41  L That's a lot harder to imagine, given that IBM is a direct competitor:  *if*E their owners feel that neither PA-RISC nor Alpha still has reasonabler0 potential, Hammer seems the obvious alternative.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:16:32 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipc= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202132016.395e16d1@posting.google.com>o  r "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<6YBa8.14478$UQ.1386850@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...- > <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagee' > news:a4eakb$78f$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...d9 > > In article <3C6AA5DC.41B64954@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei ) >  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: $ > > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:L > > >> systems. My bet would be that HP would cut their losses and drop IA64	 >  prettya# > > >> soon after Intel dropped it.a > M > I recall recently reading somewhere (in other words, I'm in no way vouching N > for this) that HP contemplated sinking Itanic a while ago but that Intel was1 > adamant about continuing.  Interesting if true.a >  > >@ > > For the rest > >e > > Two choices. > >s, > > 1) They start looking at a PLAN B now !!+ > >    Possibilities that spring to mind :-  > >s& > >    a) Restart development on Alpha > J > That depends heavily on details of the deal with Intel plus just how farK > along EV8 design had progressed before the exodus.  It could be eminently & > feasible, or effectively impossible. > " > >    b) Investigate AMD's Hammer > L > Hammer could be the wild card that changes everything:  EV7-quality systemN > architecture with a high-performance but 'industry-standard' heart.  Give itK > a couple of enterprise-quality operating systems and who knows what mighthL > happen?  IIRC its MP linkage appears to be designed to handle only up to 8M > processor packages, but with dual cores in each that certainly includes the M > sweet spot for MP as long as one finds effective ways to use such groupingse > in larger configurations.e > N > Of course, AMD could screw it up somehow, which makes committing to it scaryL > (though not as scary as committing to Itanic is starting to look).  But ifN > they do even a half-decent job it could dominate everything but the high endD > (and with some good system engineering might handle that as well). > # > >    c) Investigate IBM's Power 4s > N > That's a lot harder to imagine, given that IBM is a direct competitor:  *if*G > their owners feel that neither PA-RISC nor Alpha still has reasonable 2 > potential, Hammer seems the obvious alternative. >  > - bill  K Alpha, even though it may have to catch up on ev8, w/ev7 still can beat anyiI other platform out there!  And I would like to hear from Compaq what willpH happen to us alpha vms users if itanic is canned!  Where are you Compaq!   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:02:09 GMTa. From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip / Message-ID: <lxHa8.49925$fK1.4138532@rwcrnsc54>T    david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:e" > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:H > >> My bet would be that HP would cut their losses and drop IA64 pretty! > >> soon after Intel dropped it.g > >vN > >And go where ? They've burned their bridges.  They're committed to IA64 big time.  >eJ > For their "main business" PCs no problem - follow Intel's lead (or AMD's lead). >  > For the rest > Two choices. >p* > 1) They start looking at a PLAN B now !!) >    Possibilities that spring to mind :-o$ >    a) Restart development on Alpha  >    b) Investigate AMD's Hammer! >    c) Investigate IBM's Power 4   > And continue with PA-RISC, which is just as suitable a vehicle= for Alpha-like performance levels as Alpha ever was.  PA-RISC : is bi-endian and has supported lock stepping before, so it could be used for NSK.  < Another plan B is for NSK to continue using Mips for as long as SGI is viable.g   >iD > 2) They wait and continue producing Alpha and PA-RISC speed bumps.M > Eventually losing all the customers. They may decide this is what they wanta ieE > they want to just become another PC company competing against DELL.  >nM > >Will the 64 bit 8086 have lockstep for NSK and the 4 modes needed for VMS?k> > >If not, can it be added, and if so, how long will it take ? >aN > I don't know - that's why the possibilities need to be investigated now. TheK > only option I am sure would support both of these is a resurrected Alpha.w  H By the time NSK development turned around yet again for the 3rd time andB finished & brought an Alpha EV7 box to market, the EV7 will be oldD and non-competitive.  And NSK customers wouldn't buy it anyway, as a) dead end product with no future upgrades.=   >=B > If it could support NSK and VMS then AMD's Hammer would probablyK > be the best choice from HP/Compaq's point of view - No political problems J > such as might arise from renewed development of Alpha and they can stillN > pursue their idea of standardising all their systems on one chip. Though howI > well AMD's Hammer will work in high end systems competing against Powera > is open to question.  G Hammer is little-endian only, and so would not support NSK even if that'F chip did get the lock-step circuits that no volume AMD customer needs.M If Yamhill is merely a Hammer clone, then it is similarly little-endian only.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:20:20 -0800 + From: "Mike Scott" <mscott_NOSPAM@axys.com> 2 Subject: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? Message-ID: <3c6ac20a@nubby2.>  I I'm looking for opinions on what the best NFS package for OpenVMS 7.x is.nE By 'best', I mean best performing and most stable.  I wish to have anuE OpenVMS file server that hosts data for both OpenVMS workstations and L Windoze workstations (non-NT environment).  I'm hoping for a single solutionG for both types of clients.  Also, I've looked at Clustering and Advance J Server (Pathworks).  Specifically, I'd like to hear about NFS experiences.
 -with thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:45:31 -0500a1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>m6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?2 Message-ID: <3C6B16BB.1CD3410F@firstdbasource.com>  H The problem with NFS-based solutions is that you MUST pay for additionalH licenses for EACH workstation. Last time I checked NFS was not a part of! any of the Wxxxxx licenses or OS.o  A The VMS package will depend entirely on which TCPIP stack you arehH using.  I have used Multinet and UCX.  The UCX (TCPIP Services) team hasH done a very good job in addressing any issues WRT the type of data being1 transferred (sequential, indexed, binary etc...)    @ I have used SAMBA in production for more than 6 years on various? versions of OpenVMS (VAX, Alpha, and Linux,Solaris,etc) with nou problems.    --   Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163i7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coms# Sr. Consultant  -- still available._     Mike Scott wrote:i > K > I'm looking for opinions on what the best NFS package for OpenVMS 7.x is. G > By 'best', I mean best performing and most stable.  I wish to have an G > OpenVMS file server that hosts data for both OpenVMS workstations and"N > Windoze workstations (non-NT environment).  I'm hoping for a single solutionI > for both types of clients.  Also, I've looked at Clustering and Advance L > Server (Pathworks).  Specifically, I'd like to hear about NFS experiences. > -with thanks.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:28:26 GMT=# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>i, Subject: Re: [even further off-topic] euro's. Message-ID: <K%za8.677$Vba.284@news2.bloor.is>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KE8DVKQO5U8Y7KQF@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...tJ > > See, I told you you'd suffer ~3% inflation if you joined the Euro :-)' >iK > > Drifting even further off topic, I met a scottish economist last summeruJ > > at a conference who favored pulling the UK out of the EU entirely, and > > joining NAFTA . . .a >nG > Actually, that would probably suit both the UK and the rest of EuropepG > better.  In many ways, the UK IS closer to the US than to the rest ofoJ > Europe (which, in the UK, is called "Europe", not "the rest of Europe".) >S  L NAFTA has a lot of problems too, the largest of which is that it was written, for the benefit of corporations, not people.  ? You think EU regulations are nuts?...try some American ones....A   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Feb 2002 13:11:56 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)WC Subject: [OT] MVS on a x86 PC, was: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URLn3 Message-ID: <MTrbk7dDB5ta@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  c In article <czPV6XOgcOzn@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:nh > In article <qhn0ydhos4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes: > H >> OS/360 is in the public domain.  That's clearly non-proprietary.  NotK >> many people use it, though.  Clearly the mere lack of proprietariness is G >> not enough to make an operating system successful.  But it can help.  > E > Is the idea that OS/360 aka MVS is somehow "not successful" because 3 > people are not running a copy in their basement ?   H Actually, what makes you think that people are not running a copy of MVS in their basement ? :-)T  K I have got a half installed copy of MVS 3.8 running under Linux. (It's only I half installed because I very rapidly appreciated just how involved a MVSnF installation is, at least when I have never used any IBM mainframe O/SH directly before, so I gave up and went back to my current project. :-) )  F In case anyone's interested, start with Zane Healy's emulator page at:  + http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.htmla  # and look at the bottom of the page.   D There is a CD-ROM image on that site that's about 500-600 MB in sizeI that claims to be a turnkey installation, but I ended up just downloadingEB the various (much smaller, several tens of MB) bits that you need.   Simon.  C PS: I am not an MVS expert, so asking me for help with MVS would be  pointless. :-)   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP        + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.087 ************************.n >o( >Jim Strehlow, Data911, JimS@data911.com >Alameda, CA >  >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:05:01 GMTo' From: Stuart Fuller <stufullQ    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    Q    