0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 15 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 89      Contents: Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: 1 Year uptime A Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more  Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieveA Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ? A RE: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ? A Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ? A Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ?  Re: CLI$_PARSE problem CLI$_PARSE problem Re: CLI$_PARSE problemP Dallas and VMS/Decus in March (Was Re: DFW Compaq User Grp Meeting - Feb 19th, 21 DCL Minute of the St Valentine's Day: DCL_ANALYST  Re: DCL questions  Re: DCL questions 
 DCL questions  DEC4220 ethernet card  Re: DEC4220 ethernet card ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? . RE: How to get prices on CPQ OpenVMS products? HP proxies in hand Infoserver disk C Re: Job Posting - VMS Managed Service Contract Manager - Groton, CT / Re: Load Balancing DNA across 2*2MBit WAN links 8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime Re: Microsoft's financials Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows" & Re: OT: Proliant DL and DS-10 cabinets Re: Pathworks 32 on Windows XPD Re[2]: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ?2 Re: Running TCPIPTRACE crashes an Alphaserver ES40P Scandinavian Language(s) was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( 5 Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet 5 Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet 5 Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet 1 Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet 5 Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet 5 Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet ! Re: TCPIP V5.1 eco 3 memory leaks  Re: TCPIP$Config  problems Re: Telnet problems  Re: TLZ06 question* TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.. Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.. Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems. UK Portal Seminar  Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics  Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics $ Re: VMS 7.3, DECnet IV, proxy access* VMS lexical F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR"). Re: VMS lexical F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")P Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of  another chiP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipP Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip- Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - RE: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? - Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?  XP 1000 won't boot Re: XP 1000 won't bootP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise      of      cP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise   of      compP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of      compaq Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...  Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...  Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...  Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...  Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...  Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2002 01:18:53 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"0 Message-ID: <874rkkoubm.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  + gary.morin@emergis.com (Gary Morin) writes:   > > > A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created anB > > inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and do so4 > > with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  > > Does anybody know if this the same fellow who wrote the bookA > "Engineering Intelligent Systems" from Digital Press?  The name < > sounds the same but I don't have the book here to look at.  B Unless there is an excess of Robert M. Glorioso's around, it seemsJ the most likley answer. Back fly give him as Director of Research Planning and Tech. Good book too...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:05:35 -0500 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <=MNrPD38QsxwLjGzJB1Gb144Psit@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:12:51 -0500, David Beatty) <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:   G >On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:22:51 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >  >>1 >>http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0204/019.html  >>( >>Look at the diagram in the article.... >> > < >    For some reason I can't see the diagram.  I'll send the- >URL to my home and try to bring it up there.  >  >David R. Beatty  9     I looked at the diagram last night.  Good idea if you 7 have a mission critical app. that's running on Windows. / Now if Windows could be fixed to crash less ...    David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:59:36 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C6C8934.A4860D01@fsi.net>    David Beatty wrote:  > [snip] > if you? > have a mission critical app. that's running on Windows [snip]     ...your stockholders should sue.  , IMO, YMMV, all other standard disclaimers...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:12:14 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows", Message-ID: <3C6C8A8F.5D309BE8@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:A > > have a mission critical app. that's running on Windows [snip]  > " > ...your stockholders should sue.  / Check out what NASDAQ uses for its web server.    3 Face it. More and more of the world run on Windows.   N Face it Windows is probably more reliable than the old punched cards. So it is6 an improvement compared to 1960s and 1970s technology.  J Face it, the CEOs of 2 of the world's largest Computer manufacturers can't5 possibly be wrong when they bet their farm on wintel.   D You can build your little shelter to protect yourself from that iglyC tidalwave, but you remain alone in your corner with useless skills.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:34:14 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C6C910E.92522BC9@fsi.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:C > > > have a mission critical app. that's running on Windows [snip]  > > $ > > ...your stockholders should sue. > 0 > Check out what NASDAQ uses for its web server. > 5 > Face it. More and more of the world run on Windows.   / How many wrongs *DOES* it take to make a right?   P > Face it Windows is probably more reliable than the old punched cards. So it is8 > an improvement compared to 1960s and 1970s technology.  H Well, I still have my student programs on 80-column cards from 1978. GotG nothin' to read 'em on, though. Folks post here and cross post from the H PDP groups about 60's and 70's technology running merrily away while theC whiz-bang, latest-and-greatest crowd are rebooting every few hours, ) fending off viruses and hackers, etc. ...   D Then again, I still have my first '386 PC and the software that cameF with it. Got that in 1991. The on-board graphics is messed up, but theB machine itself will still run. Got a '486SX/33 in early '95 that I@ upgraded with a 486DX4/100 overdrive CPU and 32MB of memory. I'mE currently running Mandrake Linux on it, and when I get a new Netscape C for it, I will be posting from there, instead of W/95. Got this box B springtime of 1999: 366 MHz Celeron, 96MB RAM, 4.3GB disk, added a Yamaha CD-R/CD-RW (4/4/16), ...   L > Face it, the CEOs of 2 of the world's largest Computer manufacturers can't7 > possibly be wrong when they bet their farm on wintel.   H Dunno 'bout that. Except for an uptick in HP's PC biz in the most recent. half, I hear the PC market is kinda depressed.  F > You can build your little shelter to protect yourself from that iglyE > tidalwave, but you remain alone in your corner with useless skills.   H I wouldn't say "alone", exactly, given that I know of a handful of localD others like me. Then again, even VAXman has been forced to deal with Demon Spawn of Redmond.   D In addition to Linux, I also have Solaris 8 for Intel. I'm currentlyD compiling a list of mobo/chipset combinations based on the supportedE hardware list so I can get that up and running on a box I have yet to  build.  H Got a few non-VMS irons in the fire, really, but little or no Windows inC my immediate future outside of personal use items here and at work.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:41:50 +0000 1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"- Message-ID: <3C6C4B3E.6BA9DE75@starpower.net>    David Beatty wrote:  > 2 > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:12:51 -0500, David Beatty+ > <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote:  > I > >On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:22:51 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  > >  > >>3 > >>http://www.forbes.com/global/2002/0204/019.html  > >>* > >>Look at the diagram in the article.... > >> > > > > >    For some reason I can't see the diagram.  I'll send the/ > >URL to my home and try to bring it up there.  > >  > >David R. Beatty > ; >     I looked at the diagram last night.  Good idea if you 9 > have a mission critical app. that's running on Windows. 1 > Now if Windows could be fixed to crash less ...  >  > David R. Beatty   ; I don't think I like the idea of any Microsoft system doing " anything at a nuclear power plant:  ? > Endurance now powers security systems at nuclear power plants    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:53:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows", Message-ID: <3C6C9442.CFB7BDCC@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:1 > How many wrongs *DOES* it take to make a right?     L That doesn't matter. When enough wrongs are made in the same direction, thatK direction becomes industry standard and the harm done by that wrong becomes L accepted. Windows can be compared to cars that generate exhaust. People haveJ gotten used to accepting the pollution, noise and dammage/deaths caused byD cars and don't demand cars that don't pollute and don't kill people.  J > PDP groups about 60's and 70's technology running merrily away while theE > whiz-bang, latest-and-greatest crowd are rebooting every few hours, + > fending off viruses and hackers, etc. ...   N But in the end, the windows crap still produces more than the 1970s technologyN even with all its blue screen of deaths. You couldn't run NASDAQ's web site on punched cards.  J > Dunno 'bout that. Except for an uptick in HP's PC biz in the most recent0 > half, I hear the PC market is kinda depressed.  J HP only need to hire accountants with enough creativity to make money. TheM real measure of their success is the number of units shipped and market share L compared to Dell. Mickey Dell must feel very smug knowing how he was able to9 outsmart corporations the size of HP, Digital and Compaq.   L But HP insists on continuing in that path and there is nothing you and I canK do to prevent it. And with Compaq out of the way, HP has a better chance of F survival. Remember that this whole merger deal isn't about combining 20 companies, it is about eliminating a competitor.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2002 06:07:03 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <a4i8i7$4d1$3@joe.rice.edu>   . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote: : F : Face it, the CEOs of 2 of the world's largest Computer manufacturers= : can't possibly be wrong when they bet their farm on wintel.  :   7 The U.S. Navy has bet much more than the farm on Wintel   8    http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.html1    Scientific American: Technology and Business:       Rough Sailing For Smart Ships  7    http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htm <    Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water  0    http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html    Navy carrier to run Win 2000   @    http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ah0997/pg20.html!    All Hands, Sep 97 - Smart Ship   A Searching U.S. Navy web sites for "smart ship" will NOT turn many B other hits, almost like they want to keep their decision a secret.   : F : You can build your little shelter to protect yourself from that uglyE : tidalwave, but you remain alone in your corner with useless skills.  : G You can hone skills for a rock-solid, secure operating system that its  D vendor seems to be ashamed of, or you can acquire Windows skills forC an unstable, insecure operating system whose vendor wants to expand " into security and storage markets:  ,    http://news.com.com/2100-1001-837319.html<    Microsoft eyes new turf to conquer - Tech News - CNET.com  %    Microsoft eyes new turf to conquer $    By Mike Ricciuti and Robert Lemos    Staff Writers, CNET News.com      February 14, 2002, 4:00 AM PT  ?   "While Microsoft is focusing much of its energy these days on @    developing Web services and on tightening the security of its5    software, it hasn't stopped exploring new markets.   H    The Redmond, Wash.-based company plans to make deeper forays into theH    areas of security software and storage through two upstart divisions,4    according to Group Vice President Jim Allchin..."      4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:48:00 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: 1 Year uptimeD Message-ID: <A8Xa8.7852$qt6.715176@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  ) Another "Proud to be Microsoft Free" logo          --   Andy Bustamante ( remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail      9 "Ted Allwood" <support@leva.leeds.ac.uk> wrote in message , news:00A09758.E03A13CA.4@leva.leeds.ac.uk...H > OK, I know its nothing exceptional for a VMS system, but my web server2 > just passed the one year since last reboot mark: > D > OpenVMS V7.1-2  on node LEVA  12-FEB-2002 14:17:16.18  Uptime  365 01:40:48 >CD > Does anyone have a suitable logo that I could add to a web page to > mark the occasion? >a >e
 > REgards, > TedC >h > --G > Support@leva.leeds.ac.uk                                Tel:  0113 23e 32167o- > www.mech-eng.leeds.ac.uk/support/index.html I > School of Mechanical Engineering,  University of Leeds,  Leeds  LS2 9JT  >      begin 666 Msfree.gif= M1TE&.#EA7P`?`/<``/______S/__F?__9O__,___`/_,___,S/_,F?_,9O_, = M,__,`/^9__^9S/^9F?^99O^9,_^9`/]F__]FS/]FF?]F9O]F,_]F`/\S__\Sd= MS/\SF?\S9O\S,_\S`/\`__\`S/\`F?\`9O\`,_\``,S__\S_S,S_F<S_9LS_i= M,\S_`,S,_\S,S,S,F<S,9LS,,\S,`,R9_\R9S,R9F<R99LR9,\R9`,QF_\QFe= MS,QFF<QF9LQF,\QF`,PS_\PSS,PSF<PS9LPS,\PS`,P`_\P`S,P`F<P`9LP` = M,\P``)G__YG_S)G_F9G_9IG_,YG_`)G,_YG,S)G,F9G,9IG,,YG,`)F9_YF9C= MS)F9F9F99IF9,YF9`)EF_YEFS)EFF9EF9IEF,YEF`)DS_YDSS)DSF9DS9IDSn= M,YDS`)D`_YD`S)D`F9D`9ID`,YD``&;__V;_S&;_F6;_9F;_,V;_`&;,_V;, = MS&;,F6;,9F;,,V;,`&:9_V:9S&:9F6:99F:9,V:9`&9F_V9FS&9FF69F9F9Fc= M,V9F`&8S_V8SS&8SF68S9F8S,V8S`&8`_V8`S&8`F68`9F8`,V8``#/__S/_ = MS#/_F3/_9C/_,S/_`#/,_S/,S#/,F3/,9C/,,S/,`#.9_S.9S#.9F3.99C.9i= M,S.9`#-F_S-FS#-FF3-F9C-F,S-F`#,S_S,SS#,SF3,S9C,S,S,S`#,`_S,`a= MS#,`F3,`9C,`,S,```#__P#_S #_F0#_9@#_,P#_``#,_P#,S #,F0#,9@#,I= M,P#,``"9_P"9S "9F0"99@"9,P"9``!F_P!FS !FF0!F9@!F,P!F```S_P`Sf= MS `SF0`S9@`S,P`S````_P``S ``F0``9@``,^X``-T``+L``*H``(@``'<` = M`%4``$0``"(``!$```#N``#=``"[``"J``"(``!W``!5``!$```B```1````r= M[@``W0``NP``J@``B ``=P``50``1 ``(@``$>[N[MW=W;N[NZJJJHB(B'=Ws= M=U55541$1"(B(A$1$0```"P`````7P`?``<(_P`!"!Q(L*#!@P@3*ES(L.%  = M?0#^29Q(L:+%BQ@S:MS(42*XB>!"6H38L:3)DR@I?N1(,J7+ES!+MK0X:]N1M= M$3A''-DV*Z;/GR,C5IRE+:?1G-IZ`ET*<Z9$;CDY5#@@\$ %#CFY,349R)_) = M?"R%/LU)]>"!K"@#V5MAY:4]BOZ\8NRW(NQ$J",J%%RAC]_$?MAP:OT:Z!\^u= MORG?3@RD+R.K>W;_S<*I5Z ]*ZS@^GMD5&G'>_O^6=D7MY]$?Z8EIDZ-NA_Do= MB5;T>>V7>N*^?/WDJJ[8LNB(?_G\(?[7JHR%67QT'-5FDF^^NE;NM8UN9877e= M>O_XM=7'5OK?RZZMX/_#1U'?Y16A^=U[7IODY!$R5@0"6_B?A?NSO.1\U 6Go= MYXWU[(/8/9FI)Q%CKOTSGS^*Y0/61/?T,Y]$5@R73V@,_B/?/E8\^ ])V^!T = M``0(/.# `Q+=9\$:.7D!'%;;=$071=C]P^&!N$%VX8RBA381=OG4-QJ$?F58c= M3R#[[).91"3=-%4`"!SP``(I6M!!3CKP`5P%.G5DX&F*:1BD=0P&8MT_Z^E3a= MSW 9]F//?*])M )H]Q26CQ6!Q/EA1#@],&*)#Z!HWY4XE6&**1^>]1M'_2SY = MCW 4\4.::OO4)B _ND'ZJ( 5D:;D1)+JMN<_.%57#P(L."##6(4.DL@WP '_d= M@--6M&Y$$D[[--98:IP)5L,""]00ZZPOK52K3!%=,T(,]ZQPIS^!]#K"&/W\d= M&FRB(UP#U[89&5N2/_D,]U.3(^2@0B=/Y/%$?SB-T4FUP J;#Y='_.7C/_U@0= MZ&%,^N 6%T4KS-G822#B5$\]3ZB 0TYCC#(*O-?F`^-$^K0E49VG`35DA32*r= M:I)[.*W0217LCO#(**2L0EPKK23R#[N>K: 8/_: ]2^^7I5V6FWX3H3::>CY = M@]YW/O_\*,\\C_J/;_;(L)]&RC(')L?.TM?8>/?P8Z85T#J[0FYL@46==?S4e= M<Z'9H-IS3X34B29>6^JQ1[%0[]V$TR,2L9+//?4([.1L-OXM%FZ0%>HHX&O@u= M%I9A=O@P6.!KC/U38XT2W7AQ@>CM8P]=2'8X]UU&;8.G/0=Q.<)@%V.Z%FJ0r= M$6@YFJ;Q:*!KG>.88((3!?ECY: EZ<^123KJ%%XCE&60HJ?#I1@^-K]%IGQ@s= MG6D8GBOPPT_%A3EKIG#D\4,>;#XN+O1\C=V99WEBL3J"5&59A95@%?6#V+VAk= MA<_IO=E-FMUPH>*;6:.1DHNF-L4__3$I?1(ARE&6\Y]C.3 H&*G)$92%DYTT = L\($8_%P&-U@2;QV0@[3R8 ='HH\2FO"$*$RA"E?(PA:Z\(4P-"% ] 4$`#L`- `c endu   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:46:16 -0800: From: craig.berry@signaltreesolutions.com (Craig A. Berry)J Subject: Re: ASTFLT in emacs21 - was Re: emacs21 working a little bit more= Message-ID: <aae510ff.0202142146.3dbc99ad@posting.google.com>E  [ Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote in message news:<a4dnmm$iod$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>...h  1 > :> John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:fF > : The C alloca() function must be implemented as a built-in to work F > : properly.  It assumes that the memory allocated is freed when the % > : procedure returns to it's caller.e > 1 > It worked in 19.28 and with what I did in 20.7.e > L > I have tried using CCs builtin __alloca in 21.1, and get the same ASTFLTs.  E That wouldn't be surprising since that might well give you allocation A and deallocation done inline by the compiler plus the GNU garbageS< collector then later coming through and trying to deallocateD something.  The possibility (one I did a poor job of articulating inC an earlier off-list message) is that this could be happening anywayoB even though you are taking reasonable steps to ensure that the GNU alloca is being used.   A The documentation of CC /OPTIMIZE=INTRINSICS (part of the defaulto? optimize behavior) explicitly mentions alloca (not __alloca) assB something that will be implemented as an intrinsic unless you take1 steps to prevent it.  That documentation is here:e  A http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/decc_alpha_help_2.htmlp  " The following test may illustrate:   $ type allocat.c void *alloca(int); int  main() {p   alloca(101); }  $ cc/version' Compaq C T6.5-003 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3h  " $ cc allocat/list/show=all/machine $ link allocat2 $ search allocat.lis alloca,function/match=and/winC _______________                 ____    ____    _______ ___________- ___________________   C alloca                          1       4       long    Extern     >( Function returning short pointer to voidC                                                                    ( -No References [snip]  B The point here being that there are "No References" to alloca evenC though I call it, nor does anything in the generated assembler lookhC like a function call.  I suppose the call could have been optimizedfA away, but it also could have been implemented as an intrinsic.  ItC don't know assembler well enough to make further sense of what it's'? doing, and this could all be a wild goose chase, but unless theRD problem still occurs after recompiling emacs with something like the< following, I'd say dueling alloca implementations is still a( possibility that hasn't been ruled out.:  . #if __DECC_VER >= 60000000 && defined(__ALPHA)< #pragma function (alloca) /* don't let it be an intrinsic */ #endif  3 > By disabling atimer, I did not get those ASTFLTS.r  A Which may only mean that the code that first trips over the stacke< corruption just happens to execute before it gets corrupted.  J > And there are ASTs in ordinary use (like keyboard input), but these does > not trigger ASTFLTs.? > It must be something new with atimer and it's use of signals?GK > (Get the same results with HAVE_SETITIMER, but I suspect the implementionD > is about the same) > 5 > Anyone who knows how alarm is implemented nowadays?o  8 Dunno.  I think signals are implemented with sys$sigprc.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:18:38 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)% Subject: Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrievee1 Message-ID: <a4gv1u$nap$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   , In article <3C6AED80.97DBB4B7@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:c : [HTTP support in C-Kermit...]n : L : Mr da Cruz, I have much respect and appreciation for what you do. But I amD : quite puzzled as to why the HTTP code would need to be ported.  IfI : Kermit-VMS is already able to SET NET TCP and run scripts etc to access G : TCPIP connections, why couldn't the HTTP module take advantage of the J : already available services that allow other parts of Kermit to use TCPIP : connections ?y : I Because they use a lot of Unix time functions.  Anybody who wants to port F this stuff to VMS is more than welcome, just as they always have been.B C-Kermit 8.0 was in public Alpha and Beta test since December 20002 (that's 2000, not 2001) and nobody was interested.   - Frank2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:38:25 +0100R9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o% Subject: Re: C-Kermit & HTTP retrieve ' Message-ID: <3C6A8871.32432AAD@aaa.com>u  ; As an alternative to use Kermit to fetch files, take a look.< at FETCH_HTTP. I use it a lot to fetch e.g. VMS patches from+ Compaqs FTP site. Works great. An example :   - $ fetch_http :== $util:[fetch_http]fetch_httpn $!  $ prox = "-b -p <my-proxy-node>" $! $ fetch_http -  1n "ftp://ftp.support.compaq.com.au/pub/patches/vms/axp/v7.3/dec-axpvms-vms73_shadowing-v0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe" -b7   dec-axpvms-vms73_shadowing-v0200--4.pcsi-dcx_axpexe -u   'prox' $!     Jan-Erik Sderholm.s  4 Christoph Gartmann <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de> wrote:N > currently I am using C-Kermit 7.0.197 to retrieve HTML documents from within > DCL.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:46:52 -0500j From: Mark <no@mail.com>J Subject: Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ?8 Message-ID: <cb1o6u85vqar1j96japnb0mhvagh1jlfn5@4ax.com>  @ On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:38:39 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  T >In article <dcvn6uc50jutg9guooh3l8ia83bk924t68@4ax.com>, Mark <no@mail.com> writes:O >>I need to move files around and modify attributes of the file.  But, in doingrP >>so, the revised date changes.  Is there a way to prevent the revised date fromI >>changing on any "set file" command OR is there a utility/way to force a  >>revised date on a file ? >sD >The CONVERT utility/command can be used to modify date information. > 6 >$ CONVERT/FDL=SYS$INPUT <in-file-spec> <out-file-spc>) >DATE; REVISION "06-AUG-1960 12:34:56.78"w >^Zt    J This is good....very good.  Thank you.  BUT, is there a way to do it on anN existing file without creating a new version?  It may not be too big a deal if not.  J Also, do I need to be careful with convert in how it treats binaries or isK benign on layout/contents when used as above?  I'm not overly familiar with  the convert utility.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:40:34 -0500a> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>J Subject: RE: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ?M Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016027AC@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>   < I believe the utility called FILE that can do what you want. You can get a copy from...9 http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?FILE    :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadways Albany, NY  12204u USAo 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.comt  ) I post personal opinion only, and all then* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).h+ One should also take note of the Electronic ) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whicho+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anyI( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."     > -----Original Message-----! > From: Mark [mailto:no@mail.com] + > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:47 PMr > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi9 > Subject: Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the   > revised file date  > ?  >  > B > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:38:39 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > < > >In article <dcvn6uc50jutg9guooh3l8ia83bk924t68@4ax.com>,  > Mark <no@mail.com> writes:= > >>I need to move files around and modify attributes of the r > file.  But, in doing= > >>so, the revised date changes.  Is there a way to prevent . > the revised date from 5 > >>changing on any "set file" command OR is there a : > utility/way to force a > >>revised date on a file ? > >wF > >The CONVERT utility/command can be used to modify date information. > >>8 > >$ CONVERT/FDL=SYS$INPUT <in-file-spec> <out-file-spc>+ > >DATE; REVISION "06-AUG-1960 12:34:56.78"a > >^Ze >  > > > This is good....very good.  Thank you.  BUT, is there a way  > to do it on an? > existing file without creating a new version?  It may not be R > too big a deal if  > not. > > > Also, do I need to be careful with convert in how it treats  > binaries or is@ > benign on layout/contents when used as above?  I'm not overly  > familiar with  > the convert utility. >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:38:39 GMTe From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGeJ Subject: Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ?0 Message-ID: <00A098E5.5FF50D32@SendSpamHere.ORG>  S In article <dcvn6uc50jutg9guooh3l8ia83bk924t68@4ax.com>, Mark <no@mail.com> writes:DN >I need to move files around and modify attributes of the file.  But, in doingO >so, the revised date changes.  Is there a way to prevent the revised date from H >changing on any "set file" command OR is there a utility/way to force a >revised date on a file ?r  C The CONVERT utility/command can be used to modify date information.x  5 $ CONVERT/FDL=SYS$INPUT <in-file-spec> <out-file-spc>n( DATE; REVISION "06-AUG-1960 12:34:56.78" ^Z   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             nJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:17:08 -0600eC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>AJ Subject: Re: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ?H Message-ID: <craig.berry-C3CD74.19170814022002@news.directvinternet.com>   Yes, and there is also  0 perl -e "$now=time; utime($now,$now,'tmp.dat');"   In article eB <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016027AC@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>,@  "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> wrote:  > > I believe the utility called FILE that can do what you want. > You can get a copy from...; > http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?FILEc   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:33:05 GMTn0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) Subject: Re: CLI$_PARSE problemp9 Message-ID: <3c6c1f02.1827945987@proxy.news.easynews.com>-  ; You have to supply a verb on the command line that you passl6 to CLI$DCL_PARSE.  This is because a set of DCL tables8 may have more than one verb defined in it.  Put the verb, on the front of the line and it should work.   --Paul WinalskiC    @ On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:53:00 -0500, "cuz" <jcousins@kgo.csc.com> wrote:   >I have the following problem: >l4 >I am making a call from Fortran/77 code as follows: >n. >OPCARD = '/FILENAME=JOECUZ.TXT /READ /TYPE=2'5 >STATUS = CLI$DCL_PARSE( %REF(OPCARD), %REF(ATABLE) )y >dM >The status returned by the parser is "CLI$_NOCOMD" (Routine Terminated.  YousF >entered a null string in response to a prompt from the prompt_routine >argument).t > E >It appears that the parser is not looking at the passed Table but isrM >attempting to scan the input command line "OPCARD".  If I remove the leadinglG >slash from the filename qualifier the status returned is "CLI$_IVVERB"  >(Invalid or missing verb).n > D >The CDU table containing the verb, qualifier descriptions and valueJ >requirements has been in place and used by other code sets for at least 5G >years.  I have examined my load/link map and the one generated for the H >previously executing application and they appear to be the same for the >passed table. >eE >Am I just missing something very obvious or am I as dumb as I feel ?r >pL >If I haven't supplied enough information ask me because I am really stumped >on this one...e >c >c >2 >- >1 >7 >.   Remove 'Z' to reply by email.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:53:00 -0500 " From: "cuz" <jcousins@kgo.csc.com> Subject: CLI$_PARSE problem.' Message-ID: <a4h12c$crt$1@lore.csc.com>    I have the following problem:c  3 I am making a call from Fortran/77 code as follows:c  - OPCARD = '/FILENAME=JOECUZ.TXT /READ /TYPE=2'w4 STATUS = CLI$DCL_PARSE( %REF(OPCARD), %REF(ATABLE) )  L The status returned by the parser is "CLI$_NOCOMD" (Routine Terminated.  YouE entered a null string in response to a prompt from the prompt_routiner
 argument).  D It appears that the parser is not looking at the passed Table but isL attempting to scan the input command line "OPCARD".  If I remove the leadingF slash from the filename qualifier the status returned is "CLI$_IVVERB" (Invalid or missing verb).  C The CDU table containing the verb, qualifier descriptions and value I requirements has been in place and used by other code sets for at least 5 F years.  I have examined my load/link map and the one generated for theG previously executing application and they appear to be the same for the.
 passed table.   D Am I just missing something very obvious or am I as dumb as I feel ?  K If I haven't supplied enough information ask me because I am really stumpedE on this one...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:13:57 GMTo From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: CLI$_PARSE problem 0 Message-ID: <00A098F2.AFDA6F4D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  L In article <a4h12c$crt$1@lore.csc.com>, "cuz" <jcousins@kgo.csc.com> writes: >I have the following problem: >o4 >I am making a call from Fortran/77 code as follows: >s. >OPCARD = '/FILENAME=JOECUZ.TXT /READ /TYPE=2'5 >STATUS = CLI$DCL_PARSE( %REF(OPCARD), %REF(ATABLE) )  >,M >The status returned by the parser is "CLI$_NOCOMD" (Routine Terminated.  You`F >entered a null string in response to a prompt from the prompt_routine >argument).R >RE >It appears that the parser is not looking at the passed Table but isPM >attempting to scan the input command line "OPCARD".  If I remove the leadingFG >slash from the filename qualifier the status returned is "CLI$_IVVERB"S >(Invalid or missing verb).;  F It might help to post the .CLD file.  However, if you are going to useE CLI$DCL_PARSE, you need to parse a complete command line.  If this is E invoked as a foreign command, you will need to prepend the command to`F the above string.  The command should match that specified in the VERB clause of the .CLD file.   >_D >The CDU table containing the verb, qualifier descriptions and valueJ >requirements has been in place and used by other code sets for at least 5G >years.  I have examined my load/link map and the one generated for theNH >previously executing application and they appear to be the same for the >passed table. >`E >Am I just missing something very obvious or am I as dumb as I feel ?7   You pick...    >'L >If I haven't supplied enough information ask me because I am really stumped >on this one...J   Like I said, you need a VERB!R  K After you have parse the command, you should be able to invoke CLI$DISPATCHBG and that will transfer control to the code named in the ROUTINE clause.7   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMV            #J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes@   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:12:30 +0000(% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>PY Subject: Dallas and VMS/Decus in March (Was Re: DFW Compaq User Grp Meeting - Feb 19th, 2J8 Message-ID: <vhkn6ucvds1esgnsh6vqmtat01gcpi6gsu@4ax.com>  A On 14 Feb 2002 08:34:36 -0600, bruns@spam.encompasserve.org (Alan5! Bruns, Allied Electronics) wrote:;  - >DFW Compaq User Grp Meeting - Feb 19th, 2002H  C Looks like I will be in Dallas from Mar 11th to Mar 22 as part of aCC team carrying out an audit on EDS provided services to our company.(@ Anything good scheduled between these dates? Anything else I canD see/do VMS/DECUS related while I'm there? Should be able to get free most evenings.  A Would be happy to meet up with anyone I know from c.o.v./info-vax- while I'm there.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:50:05 +0100., From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>: Subject: DCL Minute of the St Valentine's Day: DCL_ANALYST& Message-ID: <3C6C310C.CE18D9EE@gmx.fr>   $!+1 $! DCL_ANALYST.COM $!J $! Builds statistics on OPEN, CLOSE, READ etc and variable assignments andO $! substitution. Also does simple checking on unclosed single or double quotes.f $!
 $! <input>% $! DCL procedure name to be analysed.b $! $! <output> > $! Display statistics on user terminal or in a resulting file.* $! (see help at the end of this procedure) $! $! <side effects>1J $! Creates a work file in the same location as the  analysed  file,  namedJ $! 'filename'.WORK (this file is actually preprocessed by DCL_DIET first). $!J $! NOTE: DCL_DIET is (c) 1998 Charlie HAMMOND, COMPAQ Computer CorporationJ $!       and is available from the COMPAQ OpenVMS freeware CDs v4  and  v5: $!       or from the following URL on the COMPAQ WEB site:D $!       http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware40/dcl_diet/ $!
 $! QUALITYM $! Due to the complexity of this processing, your feedback is VERY welcome tooL $! mailto:Didier.Morandi@Free.fr or within the comp.os.vms forum. Thank you. $! $! LEGALN $! This procedure is a NothingWare product from MORANDI Consultants illimited.1 $! (http://didier.morandi.free.fr/index_us.html).  $! $! Revision historyt $!( $! Version Date        Author     actionO $! ------- ----------- ---------- ---------------------------------------------r* $! v1.0-0  07-feb-2002 D. Morandi creationG $v="1.1-0"!14-feb-2002 DMo.       add comments before release to c.o.v.n $!-V $ on warning then exitP $ say = "write sys$output"                                     !terminal or file $ if p1 .eqs. "" then goto HELP N $ say1 = "write sys$error"                                     !always visible $ if f$search(p1) .eqs. "" $ then! $    say "File ",p1," not found."i	 $    exitg $ endifi $ say "" $ say "This is DCL_ANALYST v",v  $ say ""O $ say2 = "!"                                                    !"V" quiet mode M $ say3 = "!"                                                    !idem for "C"n $ param = f$edit(p2,"upcase") : $ if f$locate("V",param) .ne. f$len(param) then say2 = say: $ if f$locate("C",param) .ne. f$len(param) then say3 = sayC $ dq[0,8]=34                                                    ! "nC $ sq[0,8]=39                                                    ! 'tD $ qq = sq + sq                                                  ! '' $ nb_at    = 0 $ nb_read  = 0 $ nb_write = 0 $ nb_openr = 0 $ nb_openw = 0 $ nb_opena = 0 $ nb_close = 0 $ nb_locas = 0 $ nb_glbas = 0 $ nb_subst = 0 $!+)N $! If we have good old DCL_DIET in our login directory, as all DCL programmersL $! should, let's diet the procedure before starting the processing (faster). $!- J $ workfile = p1 - f$parse(p1,,,"type") - f$parse(p1,,,"version") + ".WORK"0 $ if f$search("SYS$LOGIN:DCL_DIET.COM") .nes. "" $ then/ $    say1 "preprocessing file with DCL_DIET..."g  $    define/nolog sys$output nl:( $    @sys$login:dcl_diet 'p1' 'workfile' $    deass sys$outputu $    say1 "done."I $ else
 $    say -P  "Source file will not be DIETed, DCL_DIET.COM missing in sys$login (how come?)" $    copy 'p1' 'workfile'  $ endifi $!+ N $! Now we ease line analysis by removing these spaces which break f$element... $!-0A $ temp_file = "sys$login:edt_temp_" + f$getjpi(0,"pid") + ".temp"R $ crea 'temp_file' $DECKe
 s/$ /$/w/not a s/ == /==/w/not  s/ ==/==/w/not   s/== /==/w/not C s/ = /=/w/not 
 s/= /=/w/not  
 s/ =/=/w/not z s/ := /:=/w/not  s/:= /:=/w/not   s/ :=/:=/w/not C exit $EOD $ edit = "edit"z) $ edit/edt/command='temp_file' 'workfile'w $ delete = "delete"  $ delete 'temp_file';h $!+ 9 $! Let's redirect the result into the user supplied file.e $!-b $ if p3 .nes. "" $ then. $    say "Processing output redirected to ",p3! $    define/nolog sys$output 'p3'n $ endifh $!+ M $! Now we load the source file in memory, to have direct access to all lines.n $!-n $ close/nolog ch $ open/read ch 'workfile' O $ i==1                                          !this one should be a global s.u $ say1 "Loading file..." $LOOP: $ read/end=EOF ch line_'i': $ line = f$edit(line_'i',"trim,upcase,compress,uncomment")I $ if line .eqs. "" .or. line .eqs. "$" .or. line .eqs. " " then goto LOOP O $ j=i                                           !this one allows src navigation? $LOOP_CONT:m $!+uM $! we have a continuation line, let's concatenate it (much easier to process)  $!-a6 $ if f$extract(f$len(line_'i')-1,1,line_'i') .eqs. "-" $ then
 $    j=j+1 $    read/end=EOF ch line_'j'aB $    line_'i' = f$extract(0,f$len(line_'i')-1,line_'i') + line_'j' $    goto LOOP_CONT_ $ endifh $ i==i+1 $ goto LOOPb $!+m> $! We have loaded all the source, let's process each line now. $!-. $EOF:p
 $ close ch $ purge ="purge" $ purge 'workfile' $ nb_max = i - 1 $ i==1 $ we_are_within_a_DECK = 0" $ we_are_within_a_HTML_comment = 0 $LOOP2: K $ line = f$edit(line_'i',"trim,upcase,compress,uncomment")      !in case wetM $ line_len = f$len(line)                                        !did not havehJ $ if line_len .eq. 0 then pipe i==i+1 ; goto LOOP2              !DCL_DIET.2 $ if line .eqs. "$"  then pipe i==i+1 ; goto LOOP2 $!+cD $! If we are within a DECK/EOD pair, this is plain text, do nothing. $!-8 $ if we_are_within_a_DECK@ $ thenF $    if f$extract(0,4,line) .eqs. "$EOD" then we_are_within_a_DECK = 0 $    i==i+1d- $    if i .gt. nb_max then goto ERROR_IN_DECKk $    goto LOOP2i $ endif  $!+t# $! are we entering a DECK/EOD pair?u $!-f& $ if f$extract(0,5,line) .eqs. "$DECK" $ then $    we_are_within_a_DECK = 1p $    i==i+1v- $    if i .gt. nb_max then goto ERROR_IN_DECKm $    goto LOOP2a $ endifw $!+ 4 $! If we are within an HTML comment, do nothing too. $!-i! $ if we_are_within_a_HTML_commentt $ thenL $    if f$extract(0,,line) .eqs. "-->" then we_are_within_a_HTML_comment = 0 $    i==i+1-5 $    if i .gt. nb_max then goto ERROR_IN_HTML_COMMENT. $    goto LOOP2, $ endif  $!+ # $! are we entering an HTML comment?  $!-i% $ if f$extract(0,4,line) .eqs. "<!--"g $ then% $    we_are_within_a_HTML_comment = 1u $    i==i+1t5 $    if i .gt. nb_max then goto ERROR_IN_HTML_COMMENTe $    goto LOOP2a $ endifm $!+oO $! let's build the line number with fancy formatting (courtesy John D. McLean).a $!-h $ line_nr = "00000"3% $ line_nr[5-f$len(i),f$len(i)] := 'i'C $!+o8 $! The "symbol substitution within a string" processing. $!-t $ pos_qq = f$locate(qq,line) $ if pos_qq .ne. line_lenA $ then $ temp_line = line $AGAIN:B/ $    remain = f$extract(pos_qq+2,999,temp_line)a! $    pos_sq = f$locate(sq,remain).! $    if pos_sq .ne. f$len(remain)/	 $    thens? $       subst_var = f$edit(f$extract(0,pos_sq,remain),"upcase")aL $       if f$locate("F$",subst_var) .ne. f$len(subst_var) then goto EXIT_VARG $       say2 line_nr," VARSUBS ",subst_var," substituted within string"  $       nb_subst = nb_subst + 1 	 $    elseiJ $       say1 "*** ERROR line ",i," - Unclosed substitution within string." $       say1 line 
 $    endif! $    pos_qq = f$locate(qq,remain) ! $    if pos_qq .ne. f$len(remain)n	 $    theni $       temp_line = remain $       goto AGAIN
 $    endif $ endifI
 $EXIT_VAR: $!+n- $! The "global symbol assignment" processing.n $!-m  $ pos_eqeq = f$locate("==",line) $ if pos_eqeq .ne. line_lena $ then# $    symbol = f$element(0,"=",line)yA $    if symbol .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT globass symbolnE $    if f$locate("/",symbol) .ne. f$len(symbol) then goto EXIT_SYMBOL M $    if f$extract(0,1,symbol) .eqs. "$" then symbol = f$extract(1,999,symbol) " $    value = f$element(2,"=",line)? $    if value .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT globass valuetD $    if f$locate("F$",value) .ne. f$len(value) then goto EXIT_SYMBOL# $    symbol = f$edit(symbol,"trim")s! $    value = f$edit(value,"trim")h, $    if value .eqs. " " then value = """ """/ $    if value .eqs. "" then value = "(missing)"f $    if value .nes. "-"o	 $    then N $       say2 line_nr," GLOBASS Global symbol ",symbol," receives value ",value $       nb_glbas = nb_glbas + 1n	 $    else  $       say1 line_nr, -RD         " GLOBASS ",symbol," receives value on a continuation line" 
 $    endif $ else $!+U, $! The "local symbol assignment" processing. $!-l  $    pos_eq = f$locate("=",line) $    if pos_eq .ne. line_len	 $    then & $       symbol = f$element(0,"=",line)C $       if symbol .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT locass symboltH $       if f$locate("/",symbol) .ne. f$len(symbol) then goto EXIT_SYMBOLP $       if f$extract(0,1,symbol) .eqs. "$" then symbol = f$extract(1,999,symbol)& $       symbol = f$edit(symbol,"trim")O $       if f$locate(" ",symbol) .eq. f$len(symbol)              !it is a symbole $       then( $          value = f$element(1,"=",line)D $          if value .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT locass valueJ $          if f$locate("F$",value) .ne. f$len(value) then goto EXIT_SYMBOL' $          value = f$edit(value,"trim")e2 $          if value .eqs. " " then value = """ """5 $          if value .eqs. "" then value = "(missing)"l $          if value .nes. "-"t $          then F $             say2 line_nr," LOCASS  ",symbol," receives value ",value% $             nb_locas = nb_locas + 1< $          elseA $             say1 line_nr, -:G            " LOCASS  ",symbol," receives value on a continuation line" V $          endif
 $       endif 
 $    endif $ endife
 $EXIT_SYMBOL:  $!+o3 $! The "Open/read or default READ" file processing.h $!-d. $ if f$extract(0,6,line) .eqs. "$OPEN " .or. -(      f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$OPEN/R" $ then$ $    channel = f$element(1," ",line)@ $    if channel .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT read channel( $    opened_file = f$element(2," ",line)A $    if opened_file .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT read file7P $    say2 line_nr," OPENRD  ",opened_file," opened for READ on channel ",channel $    nb_openr = nb_openr + 1 $ endifa $!+e$ $! The "Open/Write file" processing. $!-A( $ if f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$OPEN/W" $ then$ $    channel = f$element(1," ",line)A $    if channel .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT write channeln( $    opened_file = f$element(2," ",line)B $    if opened_file .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT write fileH $    say2 line_nr," OPENWR  ",opened_file," opened for WRITE on channel 	 ",channel. $    nb_openw = nb_openw + 1 $ endifI $!+S% $! The "Open/Append file" processing.4 $!-p( $ if f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$OPEN/A" $ then$ $    channel = f$element(1," ",line)B $    if channel .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT append channel( $    opened_file = f$element(2," ",line)C $    if opened_file .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT append fileCI $    say2 line_nr," OPENAP  ",opened_file," opened for APPEND on channel t	 ",channelv $    nb_opena = nb_opena + 1 $ endifi $!+c $! The "Close file" processing.w $!-nO $ if f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$CLOSE ".or.f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$CLOSE/"P $ then$ $    channel = f$element(1," ",line)A $    if channel .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT close channelr7 $    say2 line_nr," CLOSED  Channel ",channel," closed"r $    nb_close = nb_close + 1 $ endifh $!+e# $! The "Read from file" processing.T $!-bM $ if f$extract(0,6,line) .eqs. "$READ ".or.f$extract(0,6,line) .eqs. "$READ/"e $ then$ $    channel = f$element(1," ",line)@ $    if channel .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT read channel( $    record_name = f$element(2," ",line)C $    if record_name .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT read recordsN $    say2 line_nr," READ    Record ",record_name," read from channel ",channel $    nb_read = nb_read + 1 $ endifi $!+ " $! The "Write to file" processing. $!-bO $ if f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$WRITE ".or.f$extract(0,7,line) .eqs. "$WRITE/"  $ then$ $    channel = f$element(1," ",line)A $    if channel .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT write channelo( $    record_name = f$element(2," ",line)D $    if record_name .eqs. "=" then call WARNING_ELEMENT write recordO $    say2 line_nr," WRITE   Record ",record_name," written to channel ",channelj $    nb_write = nb_write + 1 $ endifa $!+$ $! The "@" processing. $!-e $ at_loc = f$locate("@",line)m $ if at_loc .ne. line_len/ $ then! $    gosub CHECK_AT_WITHIN_STRING=( $    called_proc = f$element(1,"@",line)/ $    called_proc = f$element(0," ",called_proc)t" $    if we_are_not_within_a_string	 $    thent $       nb_at = nb_at + 1e= $       say3 line_nr," XPRCALL External call to ",called_procr
 $    endif $ endifp $!+t" $! And that's it for this version. $!-e $ i==i+1" $ if i .le. nb_max then goto LOOP2 $ say ""8 $ say nb_max," lines processed from work file ",workfile $ say ""2 $ say "This is the analysis of file ",f$search(p1) $ say "done on ",f$time() 1 $ say "-----------------------------------------"n8 $ say "Nr of external procedures called        : ",nb_at; $ say "Nr of OPEN or OPEN/READ                 : ",nb_openri; $ say "Nr of OPEN/WRITE                        : ",nb_openwp; $ say "Nr of OPEN/APPEND                       : ",nb_openae: $ say "Nr of READ  (any type)                  : ",nb_read; $ say "Nr of WRITE (any type)                  : ",nb_writek; $ say "Nr of CLOSE                             : ",nb_close-; $ say "Nr of local  symbols assignments        : ",nb_locas ; $ say "Nr of global symbols assignments        : ",nb_glbase; $ say "Nr of symbol substitutions within string: ",nb_substt1 $ say "-----------------------------------------"g9 $ say "This result was produced with ",f$env("procedure")a$ $ node = f$trnlnm("sys$node") - "::"8 $ say "on node ",node," by user ",f$getjpi(0,"username")% $ say1 "End of analysis for file ",p1A $ dele_/symb/global i, $ if p3 .nes. "" $ then $    deass sys$outputO $    say "Result is in ",p3` $ endifd $ exit $! $ERROR_IN_DECK: A $ say1 "*** ERROR Infinite loop detected within DECK processing."t $ exit $! $ERROR_IN_HTML_COMMENT:sI $ say1 "*** ERROR Infinite loop detected within HTML comment processing."I $ exit $! $WARNING_ELEMENT:o $ subroutineQ $ say1 "*** WARNING f$element returned separator instead of symbol value line ",it $ say1 "routine name is ",p1 $ say1 "symbol name  is ",p2 $ exit $ endsubroutineyP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $CHECK_AT_WITHIN_STRING: $!E $!      v--------------------- string_to_scan ----------------------viE $!      $ html do_a "mailto:nicholas-za.senrab@sbu.com" "Nick Senrab"nE $!                  !                                 ! !           ! E $!                  +-- dq_1_loc           dq_2_loc --+ !           !nE $!                                           dq_3_loc --+           !nE $!                                                       dq_4_loc --+` $ dq_nr = 1m $ dq_1_loc = 0 $ dq_2_loc = 0 $ string_to_scan = line7 $ offset = 0	 $DQ_LOOP:I0 $ dq_'dq_nr'_loc = f$locate("""",string_to_scan). $ if dq_'dq_nr'_loc .ne. f$len(string_to_scan) $ then' $    real_loc = dq_'dq_nr'_loc + offsetr) $    offset = offset + dq_'dq_nr'_loc + 1eF $    string_to_scan = f$extract(dq_'dq_nr'_loc + 1,255,string_to_scan) $    dq_nr = dq_nr + 1 $    goto DQ_LOOP  $ endift $ dq_nr = dq_nr - 1  $ dq_2_loc = dq_2_loc + offset  $ we_are_not_within_a_string = 1; $ if at_loc .gt. dq_1_loc .and. at_loc .lt. dq_2_loc then -l#      we_are_not_within_a_string = 0i# $ if dq_nr - (('dq_nr'/2)*2) .ne. 0- $ thenH $    say1 "*** ERROR Unclosed double quote detected line ''line_nr' ***" $    say1 line $ endif  $ return $! $HELP: $ type/page sys$inpute $DECKo Welcome to DCL_ANALYST  E This simple tool scans a DCL procedure and gives this kind of result:   %         $ @dcl_analyst DSL_MANAGE.COM.  E         This is the analysis of file USER_DISK:[FRED]DSL_MANAGE.COM;1a'         done on 14-FEB-2002 09:46:57.96o1         -----------------------------------------24         Nr of external procedures called        : 674         Nr of OPEN or OPEN/READ                 : 133         Nr of OPEN/WRITE                        : 4S3         Nr of OPEN/APPEND                       : 2 4         Nr of READ  (any type)                  : 834         Nr of WRITE (any type)                  : 774         Nr of CLOSE                             : 215         Nr of local  symbols assignments        : 425i4         Nr of global symbols assignments        : 125         Nr of symbol substitutions within string: 395E1         -----------------------------------------BK         This result was produced with USER_DISK:[FRED]DCL_ANALYST.COM;98765b$         on node MYNODE by user FRED.  : When called, DCL_ANALYST accepts the following parameters:  9         P1      full filename of procedure to be analyseds           P2      flag:l>                 V = display assigned and substituted variables-                 C = display called procedures A                 P2 can be supplied with both flags together, i.e.a  ,                 $ @dcl_analyst myproc.com VC  F         P3      output file for the resulting display to be stored in.E                 If an output file is to be produced and no values areMD                 supplied for parameter P2, P2 should be place-holded(                 with a null string, i.e.  7                 $ @dcl_analyst myproc.com "" result.txtY  D                 The output file is stored in your default directory.  
 [end of HELP]t $EOD $ exit   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:21:08 -0500i1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o Subject: Re: DCL questions2 Message-ID: <3C6C3854.CD80B52B@firstdbasource.com>  > Well since this is OpenVMS I can't think of a better one... :)   ScuBart wrote: > 1 > Is there a better Ng to post any DCL questions?-F > Would like to know if it is possible to generate the weeknumber with
 > f$cvtime >  > TIAn >  > bart   -- o Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comp Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 14:54:14 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: DCL questions= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202141454.5aa76090@posting.google.com>s  ] "ScuBart" <bart@scubart.nl> wrote in message news:<rvTa8.68804$0o2.4600505@zwoll1.home.nl>..."1 > Is there a better Ng to post any DCL questions?    I'm not aware of any.   F > Would like to know if it is possible to generate the weeknumber with
 > f$cvtime  P This program will give you the week number assuming the week starts with Sunday.   DCL> TYPE WEEKNO.COM $    ON WARNING THEN EXIT * $    DATE = F$CVTIME(P1,"ABSOLUTE","DATE")' $    YEAR_ORIG = F$CVTIME(DATE,,"YEAR")  $    WEEK_NO = 0 $_N:( $    WEEKDAY = F$CVTIME(DATE,,"WEEKDAY")0 $    IF (WEEKDAY.EQS."Saturday") THEN GOTO _LOOP/ $    DATE = F$CVTIME("''DATE'+1-00","ABSOLUTE")  $    GOTO _N $_LOOP:c $    WEEK_NO = WEEK_NO + 1/ $    DATE = F$CVTIME("''DATE'-7-00","ABSOLUTE") " $    YEAR = F$CVTIME(DATE,,"YEAR"). $    IF (YEAR .EQS. YEAR_ORIG) THEN GOTO _LOOP $    SH SYM WEEK_NOr DCL>  	 Examples:    DCL> @WEEKNO 1-JAN3   WEEK_NO = 1   Hex = 00000001  Octal = 00000000001W DCL> @WEEKNO 5-JAN3   WEEK_NO = 1   Hex = 00000001  Octal = 00000000001  DCL> @WEEKNO 6-JAN3   WEEK_NO = 2   Hex = 00000002  Octal = 00000000002  DCL> @WEEKNO 31-DEC-20014   WEEK_NO = 53   Hex = 00000035  Octal = 00000000065 DCL> @WEEKNO 30-DEC-20014   WEEK_NO = 53   Hex = 00000035  Octal = 00000000065 DCL> @WEEKNO 29-DEC-20014   WEEK_NO = 52   Hex = 00000034  Octal = 00000000064 DCL> @WEEKNO TODAY3   WEEK_NO = 7   Hex = 00000007  Octal = 00000000007! DCL> SHOW TIME   14-FEB-2002 22:50:53 DCL> @WEEKNO 2-FEB-2002e3   WEEK_NO = 5   Hex = 00000005  Octal = 00000000005= DCL> @WEEKNO 3-FEB-2002n3   WEEK_NO = 6   Hex = 00000006  Octal = 00000000006  DCL>   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman=  afeldman;asdfasdafs;gfigroup.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:40:10 +0100e! From: "ScuBart" <bart@scubart.nl>h Subject: DCL questions4 Message-ID: <rvTa8.68804$0o2.4600505@zwoll1.home.nl>  / Is there a better Ng to post any DCL questions?eD Would like to know if it is possible to generate the weeknumber with f$cvtime   TIAe   bart   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:49:09 GMT ' From: "Jimbond" <jimbond@earthlink.net>  Subject: DEC4220 ethernet cardD Message-ID: <Vy%a8.9851$P21.902958@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   Hiya'lle  8 I have a DEC2000axp with a DEC4220 ethernet card inside.J I've been able to set up decnet to connect a set of Decserver 90's throughG the BNC connection, but the card also has a RJ45 socket with a loopback I connector in it.  My question is can I set up the RJ45 for tcpip and keepi the BNC J as it is.  I want to connect the alpha to the network the PC's are on so I can login from: one of them, But still have the term servers for the vt's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:15:54 GMT 4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>" Subject: Re: DEC4220 ethernet card? Message-ID: <_X%a8.28064$Zu6.134240@news-server.bigpond.net.au>g  F I'm not familiar with the DEC4220 so can't be authoritative.  However,I experience indicates that a controller with a BNC and an RJ45 gives you 2i4 connectivity options, not dual ethernet controllers.  L I fully expect you will be stuck with using the BNC exclusively, or the RJ45E exclusively.  There is often console options to select which physicalDH interface you use, or more recent controllers auto detect which is being used.w  I Now having said all that, you should not be concerned with running DECnethI and TCP/IP over the same piece of wire.  Assuming you already have DECnettI configured, simply run SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG (for configuring Compaq'skE TCP/IP stack) and configure your interface to be that of the DEC4220.u   Matt.    --= -------------------------------------------------------------C OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporationa Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------r    2 "Jimbond" <jimbond@earthlink.net> wrote in message> news:Vy%a8.9851$P21.902958@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...	 > Hiya'lli > : > I have a DEC2000axp with a DEC4220 ethernet card inside.L > I've been able to set up decnet to connect a set of Decserver 90's throughI > the BNC connection, but the card also has a RJ45 socket with a loopback K > connector in it.  My question is can I set up the RJ45 for tcpip and keep 	 > the BNCnL > as it is.  I want to connect the alpha to the network the PC's are on so I > can login from< > one of them, But still have the term servers for the vt's. >  >o   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 12:30:07 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)nH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?3 Message-ID: <llKrCBQgGRIe@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  m In article <ASSa8.13886$Aw2.650955@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:" > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:+VtFaqFNvqRz@eisner.encompasserve.org..."J >> In article <CrLa8.26356$d34.1659903@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill( > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >> > >> >> >> It will succeed. >> >+ >> > Just like iAPX432.  Right.  We'll see.s >> > >>: >> Bad example.  Not even tens of millions invested there. > N > Good example:  it doesn't matter how much money you've poured down the drainG > if the result is still a flop - you still eventually have to cut yourq	 > losses.( >   > 	Well, sure.  But if they had stopped at the pathetic 8086 andC 	equally lame 80286 , they would be out of business.  What we don'tgD 	know is if they created an execution engine to run iAPX432 binariesA 	(as CISC is translated into RISC in PIII, PIV) it might still beo 	around.  B 	With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will see= 	creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths.o  E 	We are surrounded by multi-million dollar engineering flops, I don't$C 	believe there are any multi-bilion dollar engineering flops.  Feelu 	free to correct.l   >>/ >> >   Unfortunately, it is going to take time.s >> > >> > And more billions.o >> >> Good thing they have them!" > C > Bad thing:  they'll need to price Itanic to get them back, unlikes4 > competitors who have spent their cash more wisely. >  >>= >> > And since the absolute best that can be hoped for is the J >> > scrapping of EPIC in favor of Alpha underpinnings, the result at best > willF >> > be an EV8-like Itanic delayed 2 - 3 years from when it would have > shipped as> >> > Alpha:  that's a very long time to wait in this industry. >> > >>E >> Not really.  No one else going anywhere else.  Sun stays on Sparc,t >> AIX stays on Power. > J > And that's a *bad* thing?  SPARC is of course debatable, but POWER showsJ > every sign of staying far ahead of Itanic, even if/when the Alpha team's( > contributions finally produce results. >   @ 	Bad?  Well no.  Point is, even is Power is stellar only so much2 	will erode to them because of "poor" performance.   > ...  > E >> >> AMD has 2 or 3 design teams busy.... Intel has 10.  At one time D >> >> AMD made the IA32 "race" interesting.  Intel design teams wore >> >> them down. >> >M >> > Right - so much so that they're still gaining market share on Intel hand-D >> > over fist, and have far more promising technology in their next* >> > generation/evolution than Intel does. >> > >> >> Numbers please! > H > AMD's share of the IA32 market rose to 30% recently IIRC - not exactlyN > peanuts in absolute terms, and all obtained at Intel's expense.  Their shareG > in Europe I think hit 50%.  And their technology appears sufficiently M > superior to Intel's that they don't need to be the first to use 12" wafers,aM > etc., to remain that competitive (e.g., Clawhammer is projected to match P4 L > 3400 MHz performance at smaller die sizes as well as offer 64-bit support,= > thus further enhancing the advantages Athlon enjoys today).l >   @ 	Okay... no time to look at percent IA32 market share.  What is + 	easier to find is sales and profitability.n  " http://biz.yahoo.com/p/i/intc.html  ! http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/amd.html.  D 	Intel is $26.5 billion in sales, 4.9% profit margin, 8.5% operatingA 	margin.  AMD is $3.9 billion in sales, -2.0 profit margin, -1.5%_ 	operating margin.  @ 	Looks like Intel could squeeze AMD a little more, but I suspectD 	they probably reckon' keeping AMD just barely alive is good enough.   >>H >> > It only takes a couple of design teams to succeed, if they're good:	 > look at  >> > Alpha.S >> > >>7 >> Yep.  Done deal and migrating the technology to IPF.l > L > The question is, will IPF survive the 4-year wait for it - when the resultI > will only be to finally achieve some degree of competitiveness with thee: > better solutions that have been available all that time? >   G 	Sure IPF will survive.  Intel has all the time in the world and a niced7 	funding stream in IA32 to make sure they get it right.o   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:10:47 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?, Message-ID: <3C6C0BB1.1F896D5E@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:K >         With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will seenF >         creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths.    L So far, isn't HP the only one to have bet the farm on IA64 ?  Have any otherI companies prematurely terminated products such as Alpha, Tru64 and MPE inMJ anticipation for a potential performance of a bloated chip sometime in the future ?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 14:36:42 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)cH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?3 Message-ID: <lvueVJdBOY4P@eisner.encompasserve.org>W  n In article <bPUa8.30366$LY3.2649954@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >    >>@ >> Well, sure.  But if they had stopped at the pathetic 8086 and6 >> equally lame 80286 , they would be out of business. > N > You need a few history lessons, which may help explain your inability and/or3 > unwillingness to grasp the problems Itanic faces.1 > I > 8086/88 was so 'pathetic' that its popularity changed Intel's corporate H > focus from memory to processors.  The 286, even with its problems withI > protected mode, extended the 8086's hardware (speed, memory addressing)c    > 	Pathetic from a performance standpoint.  After all, all these@ 	arguments revolve around performance as we know chip and system? 	costs will be quite affordable (cheaper than competitors, theyf8 	are cheaper now with the much bloated costlier Merced).   >  >   What we don'taF >> know is if they created an execution engine to run iAPX432 binariesC >> (as CISC is translated into RISC in PIII, PIV) it might still be 
 >> around. > N > What we do know is that they didn't, because it would have been stupid to do > so (no market).a >   > 	Right.  IA64 has a market... nascent one and performance will 	grow.   >>D >> With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will see? >> creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths.  > K > As I noted before, there seems to have been a bit of a run on the bank ofkL > late.  Dell stopped selling Itanic platforms, and says it'll wait until itG > sees some real demand for McKinley before resuming.  HP reinvigoratedlL > PA-RISC for several more generations, as SGI did MIPS.  IBM is going greatJ > guns with POWER, though will sell you an Itanic if that's what you want.K > The only recent real commitment to Itanic was Compaq's, and their reasonss7 > are hardly a persuasive endorsement for the platform.i >   < 	Run on what bank?  Intel is still making money.  AMD isn't.   > K >> > AMD's share of the IA32 market rose to 30% recently IIRC - not exactlynK >> > peanuts in absolute terms, and all obtained at Intel's expense.  Theiro > sharedJ >> > in Europe I think hit 50%.  And their technology appears sufficientlyH >> > superior to Intel's that they don't need to be the first to use 12"	 > wafers,GM >> > etc., to remain that competitive (e.g., Clawhammer is projected to matche > P4F >> > 3400 MHz performance at smaller die sizes as well as offer 64-bit
 > support,@ >> > thus further enhancing the advantages Athlon enjoys today). >> > >>A >> Okay... no time to look at percent IA32 market share.  What is - >> easier to find is sales and profitability.- >>% >> http://biz.yahoo.com/p/i/intc.htmlt >>$ >> http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/amd.html >>F >> Intel is $26.5 billion in sales, 4.9% profit margin, 8.5% operatingC >> margin.  AMD is $3.9 billion in sales, -2.0 profit margin, -1.5%n >> operating margin. >>B >> Looks like Intel could squeeze AMD a little more, but I suspectF >> they probably reckon' keeping AMD just barely alive is good enough. > M > The above numbers may be easier to find, but don't really shed any light on'M > the situation:  Intel has a far broader sales base than just IA32, and it'snM > the IA32 part of its revenue/profit that needs to be compared with AMD's tos) > see who's better able to compete there.a >   D 	Okay... but percentage-wise, it wouldn't be unreasonable to *guess*D 	that IA32 makes up over 90% of their revenues (they certainly won't 	break it down for us).n    N > Oh, and don't count on Intel being able to dump IA32 product below cost as aK > way it can cripple AMD:  there are both laws and international agreements # > that prohibit that kind of thing.   C 	They don't have to dump it below cost.  From the operating margins $ 	we can see Intel is more efficient:  F >> Intel is $26.5 billion in sales, 4.9% profit margin, 8.5% operatingC >> margin.  AMD is $3.9 billion in sales, -2.0 profit margin, -1.5%N  @ 	Likewise, we can see AMD isn't.  All Intel has to do is to workB 	their margins to ensure AMD is always teetering.  They still make? 	money, whereas AMD doesn't and they certainly won't be sellingp 	below cost.   >  > ...7 > H >> > The question is, will IPF survive the 4-year wait for it - when the > resultL >> > will only be to finally achieve some degree of competitiveness with the= >> > better solutions that have been available all that time?o >> > >>I >> Sure IPF will survive.  Intel has all the time in the world and a nice 9 >> funding stream in IA32 to make sure they get it right.  > E > Kind of sounds like the attitude U.S. automakers had about JapaneseyG > competition back in the late '60s.  And Itanic has analogous kinds of-! > 'weight' disadvantages as well.l >   G 	No... the U.S. automakers weren't nearly as efficient as the Japanese.OG 	U.S. automakers added a ton of automation in the last 30 years, becametE 	much more efficient.  Transportion costs becoming such a huge issue, B 	Japanese makers forced to build plants local to stay competitive.D 	Many Japanese and European automakers building in the U.S. today toC 	save on shipping from overseas.  Note some exceptions.  They still C 	ship from Japan to the West Coast.  They certainly can't afford tol 	ship anywhere else in the U.S.   B 	Where the analogy breaks down is that Intel is very efficient andE 	can squeeze even more efficiencies or tweek their margins.  It some lE 	ways, it really is all about superior management and Intel won't be   	outmanaged.   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:23:25 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?, Message-ID: <3C6C2ACD.8020400@tsoft-inc.com>   Rob Young wrote:    D > 	With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will see? > 	creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths.c    H Who?  HP and Compaq.  Who else has burnt the boats?  If the merger goes G through, what does Intel have, even now prior to the pain becoming too e intense?  One customer.     G > 	We are surrounded by multi-million dollar engineering flops, I don't E > 	believe there are any multi-bilion dollar engineering flops.  Feelt > 	free to correct.-    F Easily done.  The A12.  I think that was the desigination.  I have an C artist's rendition.  This was to be the Navy's new stealthy attack aF aircraft.  Ran way over cost before it ever came close to flying, and H was cancelled.  Not a unique situation, but even one example blows your  above claim out of the water.D     > . >>>>  Unfortunately, it is going to take time. >>>> >>>>And more billions. >>>> >>>Good thing they have them!i >>> C >>Bad thing:  they'll need to price Itanic to get them back, unlikei4 >>competitors who have spent their cash more wisely.    G An expensive and anemic CPU will not become industry standard, even if MG it does say 'Intel inside'.  Remember that Intel already got it's nose WI bloody in the MHz wars, and that sole occurance gave AMD recognition and VE respectability.  It's already a fact, recognized by many, that Intel =E isn't omnipotent.  They are vulnerable, and IA-64 sure isn't helping A their image much."      B > 	Bad?  Well no.  Point is, even is Power is stellar only so much4 > 	will erode to them because of "poor" performance.    A  From a realistic perspective, VMS doesn't require bleeding edge KE performance.  If EV7 is fabbed, it will support most VMS demands for EE many years.  Not having a future hurts the perspective of Alpha much 0 more than the reality of Alpha.3  I However, there are those who require performance, or at least think they 0G do, and these people will move to the fastest CPU available.  When the =I performance isn't an 'edge', but a 'cliff', it won't be much of a debate.0    L >>The question is, will IPF survive the 4-year wait for it - when the resultI >>will only be to finally achieve some degree of competitiveness with theE: >>better solutions that have been available all that time? >> >> > I > 	Sure IPF will survive.  Intel has all the time in the world and a nicem9 > 	funding stream in IA32 to make sure they get it right.2 > 	 > 				Robe    C HA!  Time is just what they don't have.  I think the IA-32 revenue  I stream will endure for quite some time, but the margins will continue to yH shrink.  While I don't agree with them, the people who claim that IA-64 H will replace IA-32 sooner rather than later, "Intel Believers", project H the IA-32 revenue stream drying up sooner rather than later.  Nobody is G optimistic, in the long term, for IA-32.  Time is NOT on Intel's side. 8A It may take a while for this to become evident for those wearing x; blindfolds, but for most the logic is there for all to see.     N Rob, I really do have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.   Please send money, now!     Dave   -- 54 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:27:29 -0500e( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?* Message-ID: <3C6C2BC1.60402@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:.   > Rob Young wrote: > K >>        With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will seesF >>        creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths. >> >  > N > So far, isn't HP the only one to have bet the farm on IA64 ?  Have any otherK > companies prematurely terminated products such as Alpha, Tru64 and MPE ineL > anticipation for a potential performance of a bloated chip sometime in the
 > future ? >   G I have to say that I respect many of Rob's views.  However, he appears gD to be applying 'blind faith' to IA-64.  I really don't see anybody, E other than Compaq, bowing to the inevitable conquest of all by Intel.n  F Intel has decreed, "resistance is futile".  IBM, AMD, and others have  replied, "Yeah, Right!"    Dave   -- -4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:05:38 GMT$* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?A Message-ID: <6pXa8.34441$d34.2243227@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:lvueVJdBOY4P@eisner.encompasserve.org...iI > In article <bPUa8.30366$LY3.2649954@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill & Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >  >w > >>B > >> Well, sure.  But if they had stopped at the pathetic 8086 and8 > >> equally lame 80286 , they would be out of business. > >-I > > You need a few history lessons, which may help explain your inabilityr and/or5 > > unwillingness to grasp the problems Itanic faces.V > >eK > > 8086/88 was so 'pathetic' that its popularity changed Intel's corporatenJ > > focus from memory to processors.  The 286, even with its problems withK > > protected mode, extended the 8086's hardware (speed, memory addressing)g >r > ) > Pathetic from a performance standpoint.m  I Nope:  it was competitive with the lower-end PDP-11s of the day, at a fare lower price point.   ...l  F > >> With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will seeA > >> creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths.  > >eJ > > As I noted before, there seems to have been a bit of a run on the bank ofK > > late.  Dell stopped selling Itanic platforms, and says it'll wait untilo itI > > sees some real demand for McKinley before resuming.  HP reinvigoratedeH > > PA-RISC for several more generations, as SGI did MIPS.  IBM is going greatfL > > guns with POWER, though will sell you an Itanic if that's what you want.E > > The only recent real commitment to Itanic was Compaq's, and theirm reasonsl9 > > are hardly a persuasive endorsement for the platform.k > >n >F > Run on what bank?t  G The 'banking' customers you referred to:  many seem to be having secondd5 thoughts and hedging their bets (they're not stupid).      Intel is still making money.  H Not on Itanic it isn't:  it's well over $1 billion behind, still pouringF cash down that drain at an ever-increasing rate (those Alpha engineersD didn't go over there without excellent compensation, and all the newK development they do won't come cheaply either), and has little hope of evenoD starting to break even at the margin, let alone start recovering any" already-sunk costs, for years yet.   ...o  L > > The above numbers may be easier to find, but don't really shed any light onJ > > the situation:  Intel has a far broader sales base than just IA32, and it'sL > > the IA32 part of its revenue/profit that needs to be compared with AMD's to+ > > see who's better able to compete there.s > >o >oE > Okay... but percentage-wise, it wouldn't be unreasonable to *guess*tE > that IA32 makes up over 90% of their revenues (they certainly won't  > break it down for us).  I PCs make up half of Compaq's revenues but don't add a penny to the bottomwH line:  have you forgotten the context in which this discussion is takingJ place?  But I suspect your guess at IA32's contribution even to revenue is 'way too high.   >  > K > > Oh, and don't count on Intel being able to dump IA32 product below cost  as aB > > way it can cripple AMD:  there are both laws and international
 agreements% > > that prohibit that kind of thing.s > D > They don't have to dump it below cost.  From the operating margins% > we can see Intel is more efficient:'  K Not unless you can quote margins on IA32 rather than corporate-wide - *and*nI allow for the up-hill battle AMD has to fight against Intel's establishedr; image (having to pare your profits to gain ground against al? better-established competitor doesn't constitute inefficiency).    ...   J > >> > The question is, will IPF survive the 4-year wait for it - when the
 > > resultJ > >> > will only be to finally achieve some degree of competitiveness with theh? > >> > better solutions that have been available all that time?  > >> > > >>K > >> Sure IPF will survive.  Intel has all the time in the world and a nicea; > >> funding stream in IA32 to make sure they get it right.t > >bG > > Kind of sounds like the attitude U.S. automakers had about JapaneseiI > > competition back in the late '60s.  And Itanic has analogous kinds ofi# > > 'weight' disadvantages as well.  > >o >lH > No... the U.S. automakers weren't nearly as efficient as the Japanese.  G You mean like EPIC isn't nearly as efficient as its competition?  Don'tkD forget that production efficiency wasn't the only problem back then:K operational efficiency was at least as important (especially after a coupleF of fuel crises...).n   ...l  C > Where the analogy breaks down is that Intel is very efficient andt< > can squeeze even more efficiencies or tweek their margins.  J So are IBM, AMD, and the Asian fabs.  The real problem is that Intel can'tG produce a 2-ton Itanic for the same price its competitors produce theiraJ 1-ton chips that equal or out-perform it - let alone start to pay back the$ far higher Itanic development costs.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:08:39 GMTo* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?A Message-ID: <bPUa8.30366$LY3.2649954@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:llKrCBQgGRIe@eisner.encompasserve.org...tH > In article <ASSa8.13886$Aw2.650955@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >u< > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:+VtFaqFNvqRz@eisner.encompasserve.org...-L > >> In article <CrLa8.26356$d34.1659903@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill* > > Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >> > > >> > >> >> It will succeed. > >> >- > >> > Just like iAPX432.  Right.  We'll see.a > >> > > >>< > >> Bad example.  Not even tens of millions invested there. > > J > > Good example:  it doesn't matter how much money you've poured down the drain I > > if the result is still a flop - you still eventually have to cut your  > > losses.s > >  > ? > Well, sure.  But if they had stopped at the pathetic 8086 andl5 > equally lame 80286 , they would be out of business.c  L You need a few history lessons, which may help explain your inability and/or1 unwillingness to grasp the problems Itanic faces.8  G 8086/88 was so 'pathetic' that its popularity changed Intel's corporateaF focus from memory to processors.  The 286, even with its problems withG protected mode, extended the 8086's hardware (speed, memory addressing)nI limitations enough to ensure the PC's continued domination of its productrK space until the 386 gave it the basic hardware underpinnings that are still I sufficient today.  'Stopping' that product evolution would have been even3I more stupid than killing Alpha was (and unlike Compaq Intel isn't usuallylK all that stupid - which is why it's far more likely still to be in business  a couple of years from now).     What we don't E > know is if they created an execution engine to run iAPX432 binaries B > (as CISC is translated into RISC in PIII, PIV) it might still be	 > around.c  L What we do know is that they didn't, because it would have been stupid to do so (no market).s   >aC > With too much and too many customers banking on IPF , we will see > > creative techniques to mask weaknesses and accent strengths.  I As I noted before, there seems to have been a bit of a run on the bank ofaJ late.  Dell stopped selling Itanic platforms, and says it'll wait until itE sees some real demand for McKinley before resuming.  HP reinvigoratedcJ PA-RISC for several more generations, as SGI did MIPS.  IBM is going greatH guns with POWER, though will sell you an Itanic if that's what you want.I The only recent real commitment to Itanic was Compaq's, and their reasonsm5 are hardly a persuasive endorsement for the platform.a   ...   L > > And that's a *bad* thing?  SPARC is of course debatable, but POWER showsL > > every sign of staying far ahead of Itanic, even if/when the Alpha team's* > > contributions finally produce results. > >s >oA > Bad?  Well no.  Point is, even is Power is stellar only so muchC3 > will erode to them because of "poor" performance.   I Since POWER is the competition on the high end, both absolute performanceuK and price/performance are significant issues for Itanic (and it'll be quite.A a while yet, if ever, before availability of Windows in most such ' installations becomes a deal-clincher).   I And of course on the low end both existing IA32 and Hammer seem likely tot. keep Itanic from even getting out of dry dock.   ...   J > > AMD's share of the IA32 market rose to 30% recently IIRC - not exactlyJ > > peanuts in absolute terms, and all obtained at Intel's expense.  Their shareiI > > in Europe I think hit 50%.  And their technology appears sufficientlyaG > > superior to Intel's that they don't need to be the first to use 12"d wafers,lL > > etc., to remain that competitive (e.g., Clawhammer is projected to match P4E > > 3400 MHz performance at smaller die sizes as well as offer 64-bit  support,? > > thus further enhancing the advantages Athlon enjoys today).  > >a >.@ > Okay... no time to look at percent IA32 market share.  What is, > easier to find is sales and profitability. >c$ > http://biz.yahoo.com/p/i/intc.html > # > http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/amd.htmli >aE > Intel is $26.5 billion in sales, 4.9% profit margin, 8.5% operatingeB > margin.  AMD is $3.9 billion in sales, -2.0 profit margin, -1.5% > operating margin.T > A > Looks like Intel could squeeze AMD a little more, but I suspect E > they probably reckon' keeping AMD just barely alive is good enough.   K The above numbers may be easier to find, but don't really shed any light on2K the situation:  Intel has a far broader sales base than just IA32, and it'soK the IA32 part of its revenue/profit that needs to be compared with AMD's to ' see who's better able to compete there.y  L Oh, and don't count on Intel being able to dump IA32 product below cost as aI way it can cripple AMD:  there are both laws and international agreements ! that prohibit that kind of thing.r   ...o  G > > The question is, will IPF survive the 4-year wait for it - when thet resultK > > will only be to finally achieve some degree of competitiveness with thea< > > better solutions that have been available all that time? > >t > H > Sure IPF will survive.  Intel has all the time in the world and a nice8 > funding stream in IA32 to make sure they get it right.  C Kind of sounds like the attitude U.S. automakers had about JapaneseUE competition back in the late '60s.  And Itanic has analogous kinds ofo 'weight' disadvantages as well.i   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:03:52 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>dH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?, Message-ID: <3C6C889A.E52A212F@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:eO > the only way intel will have a viable 64 bit platform is to use ev8 and carryl@ > on w/alpha designs ... otherwise the itanic garbage will fail!  F The only way to beat the Apple II and then the Mac was through greaterK application availability. So Intel was stuck with its toy 8086 with segmentlJ registers and 640k memory limit. Changing architecture would have lost theL application availability advantage, so the only was out was finding a way to) grow the 8086 into something respectable.j  N The problem with the IA64 is that it is starting with 0 applications. When youK look at Apple, they migrated to PowerPc from 68k very quickly and it didn'tdJ take long before 68k macs were no longer being manufactured. And there was4 good reason since the PowerPc Macs were much faster.  I In my opinion, the only way for Intel to introduce a new platform is as a K total and quick replacement of the 8086 for both the desktop and the servert with a chip that is faster.d  N As long as IA64 is slow as molasses and Intel continues to produce 8086s, thenJ IA64 stands no chance. It can survive as a niche market chip for those who/ made a mistake by prematurely committing to it.t  M For Digital/Compaq, Alpha may have costed money, but it was the basis for bigaH profits with the end products such as a Wildfire with VMS on it. But forL Intel, IA64 is the end-product so for Intel, the only way to make money with0 just a chip is high volumes or very high prices.  N What I find interesting is that Wall Street Casino Analysts are blind to IntelH sinking so much money   into IA64 when there is so little chance of everF making a profit. That is a big billion dollar mistake that Wall Street preferes to ignore.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:17:12 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>iH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?' Message-ID: <3C6C8D53.4C3CBCB8@fsi.net>d   Rob Young wrote: > [snip] >         Numbers please!e   He doesn't report to you.   " (See how stupid that sounds, Rob?)   -- " David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:25:57 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)VH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?3 Message-ID: <sn2dmxzX4XO$@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  U In article <3C6C2BC1.60402@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:e   >> lO >> So far, isn't HP the only one to have bet the farm on IA64 ?  Have any othertL >> companies prematurely terminated products such as Alpha, Tru64 and MPE inM >> anticipation for a potential performance of a bloated chip sometime in thev >> future ?  >> m > I > I have to say that I respect many of Rob's views.  However, he appears mF > to be applying 'blind faith' to IA-64.  I really don't see anybody, G > other than Compaq, bowing to the inevitable conquest of all by Intel.g >   F 	Actually, not blind faith.  There are some key technologies in Intel $ 	process and Alpha that will be key.  H > Intel has decreed, "resistance is futile".  IBM, AMD, and others have  > replied, "Yeah, Right!"p  > 	AMD isn't even on the radar screen.  As Paul Jacobi points to: 	this article, here is a summary of where the billions go:  4 http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1584&p=2  I Much more than simply performance tuning comes out of these research labs A however, there are actually five main focus areas for this group:   F 1) Performance  This area is pretty much straightforward, the group isL constantly looking for ways to increase clock speed and perform computationsO more efficiently.  They also look at application usage trends and algorithms incO order to help decide how the next-generation of microprocessors should work andiJ how to optimize them for the types of loads and application usage that the$ end-users are actually encountering.  I 2) Power  The biggest challenge going forward in microprocessor design isRL combating the issue of power consumption and heat dissipation.  It turns outH that power and performance end up going hand in hand meaning that as oneF problem is tackled, improvements in the other are usually opened up.    O 3) Integrity  Having reliable processors is something we almost always take for L granted, but reliability is a very difficult thing to ensure especially whenO youre dealing with hundreds of millions of transistors packed extremely tightlyEM into a space the size of a dime.  Research into making more reliable circuitst6 under various conditions is also a duty of these labs.  L 4) Functionality  We mentioned earlier that much research time is devoted toN studying application behavior, a major part of the results of those studies isN incorporated into execution units that make their way into future CPUs or evenF lower-level improvements that deal with moving data around internally,O optimizing data paths for certain types of transfers, etc  Technologies such as2K MMX, SSE, SSE2 and HyperThreading were the results of this type of research-K from within the labs.  A number of other technologies that were never given-L marketing names were also the results of their efforts in the labs but those@ are even more improvements that are generally taken for granted.  M 5) Tools & Methods  The final focus of the group is on developing things likeeN simulation tools that better help in the other four areas we just mentioned.    K Now that you understand a bit of what the Intel Labs are about, its time to4< talk about some of the things theyre working on right now.     ---e  = 	Yes, really tight creative design groups can do a whole lot.t  < 	Take that same tight group of 200 Alpha engineers and throw= 	a few billion in supporting infrastructure research and IA64 - 	will perform well.  It is a given, isn't it?n   				Rob   K "The assumption that we must become irrational in order to become believersiK  is the language of infidelity; for faith in the irrational is of necessity.M  irrational.  Faith is not a blind, irrational conviction.  We must know what 3  we believe and the ground upon which faith rests."t         -- Gordon H. Clark   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:42:38 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?3 Message-ID: <bB9ElE9ybXeM@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  n In article <6pXa8.34441$d34.2243227@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >    > D >> Where the analogy breaks down is that Intel is very efficient and= >> can squeeze even more efficiencies or tweek their margins.  > L > So are IBM, AMD, and the Asian fabs.  The real problem is that Intel can'tI > produce a 2-ton Itanic for the same price its competitors produce their L > 1-ton chips that equal or out-perform it - let alone start to pay back the& > far higher Itanic development costs. >   ; 	They don't have to.  IA32s in the millions and IA64 in thei@ 	hundred thousands.  The initial startup costs for IA64 won't be< 	recouped for a very long time.  Today, they do much smallerB 	volumes of Xeon/Foster than they do P4.  The margins on IA64 will> 	be much higher than IA32 but I am sure they are making money G 	today, recouping ALL the costs is sometime far out there.  They don't c@ 	have to make a lot on it for sometime.... they are still quite ? 	profitable with IA32 and they will be profitable with IA64 andaE 	the cost of Itanium with two go-rounds of shrinks (Itanium->McKinleys5 	at .18 -> Madison at .13) will be considerably less.e  ? 	The way I see it working is what we see today.  That Dell IA64t@ 	server we keep coming back to is quite a bit cheaper than most.E 	3-4 years it is still quite a bit cheaper and on par for performanceh; 	and on-chip switches ensure it scales quite readily to 64+o 	processors.  = 	The main reason Itanium is so stinking expensive is the same C 	reason Pentium Pro and initial Xeon were so high... off-chip L2.   E 	McKinley should be cheaper as L2 moves on-chip.  Madison , next yearo; 	moderately less expensive as the die shrinks going to .13.    				Robw   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:23:33 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)oH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?3 Message-ID: <Zhwrdxqxwq6S@eisner.encompasserve.org>D  [ In article <3C6C8D53.4C3CBCB8@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:	 >> [snip]b >>         Numbers please! >  > He doesn't report to you.  > $ > (See how stupid that sounds, Rob?) >   7 	But in the context of being responsible for a businesso@ 	(i.e. the folks that know the numbers... the ones Gartner can't? 	translate from one piece of paper to another) that was *those*e< 	other numbers you are referring to.  The ones we won't see,) 	nor should we, competive in nature, etc.F  > 	Me?  Track a few threads.  I most *always* attempt to provideE 	supporting evidence.  Most run around with opinion.  When challenged > 	Bill talked about a growth in AMD share, to 30%.  I certainly> 	didn't challenge him on that but quickly pointed out that theB 	numbers may be there but certainly aren't reflected in financialsD 	(i.e. AMD $3.6 billion in revs, single digit loss on profit, single! 	digit loss on operating margin).   C 	So does it sound stupid?  I guess since Bill didn't call me stupidi: 	on that one, not really.  Little sore or what?  Sheesh...   				Robm   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:06:29 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141906.3f9bdde8@posting.google.com>s   > N > >>The question is, will IPF survive the 4-year wait for it - when the resultK > >>will only be to finally achieve some degree of competitiveness with thes< > >>better solutions that have been available all that time? > >> > >> > > K > > 	Sure IPF will survive.  Intel has all the time in the world and a nicet; > > 	funding stream in IA32 to make sure they get it right.- > >  > > 				Rob  >  > E > HA!  Time is just what they don't have.  I think the IA-32 revenue -K > stream will endure for quite some time, but the margins will continue to lJ > shrink.  While I don't agree with them, the people who claim that IA-64 J > will replace IA-32 sooner rather than later, "Intel Believers", project J > the IA-32 revenue stream drying up sooner rather than later.  Nobody is I > optimistic, in the long term, for IA-32.  Time is NOT on Intel's side. 5C > It may take a while for this to become evident for those wearing e= > blindfolds, but for most the logic is there for all to see.r >   M the only way intel will have a viable 64 bit platform is to use ev8 and carryC> on w/alpha designs ... otherwise the itanic garbage will fail!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:03:57 -0500e> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>7 Subject: RE: How to get prices on CPQ OpenVMS products?vM Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016027A8@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>p   > -----Original Message-----> > From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org [mailto:wspencer@ap.nospam.org]+ > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:09 PMt > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma9 > Subject: RE: How to get prices on CPQ OpenVMS products?o >  > B > John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com (Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)) wrote in D > <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D016027A7@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>: > = > >Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/swcat/us/cocplsovms.htmlp* > >for pricing on C++ license for OpenVMS. > # > Thanks John - just what I needed.c > ; > Also, I'd like to ask a more fundamental question - what n > phone number do us  : > "corporate" guys phone to talk to CPQ salespeople about  > OpenVMS products?  hC > There seemed nothing appropriate a www.compaq.com / "Contact Us".t  7 I have Compaq Inside Enterprise person, who I reach at sA 1-800-277-8988.  But if you do not have an assigned customer carel> person, then it is 1-800-282-6672.  They will query you as to B your location, name, bussiness, etc, and get you to proper supportB person.  You should inquire as to who your customer care person isA and to their phone extension, so you can reach them at the 1-800-e 277-8988 number.  B http://www.compaq.com/corporate/overview/world_offices.html  shows" most of the contact phone numbers.  
 For U.S.:   > Pre-sales Product Information: 1-800-AT-Compaq (800-282-6672)   E Product Service & Technical Support: 1-800-OK-Compaq (800-652-6672)  e Main Operator:  281-370-0670 r Main Fax:       281-514-1740     :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadwayr Albany, NY  12204n USAa 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com   ) I post personal opinion only, and all thet* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).i+ One should also take note of the Electronicn) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whicht+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anyl( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:57:23 -0600 , From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com> Subject: HP proxies in hand 2 Message-ID: <a4i4fg$hv9$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>  J Got my proxies for the HP side of the vote.  A green one from the HewlettsJ and a white one from Carly and company.  Hmmm.  I'm voting against it, butI the green proxy requests permission to vote my shares on any other issueseI that come up; the white one is just on the merger.  I'm curious what else > might come up that Mr. Hewlett might want more votes to swing.  H If it was the Q side, I'd probably go green and hope that replacement ofH certain high management came up in the meeting after (if) the merger get circular filed.....h   Rich Jordanr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:53:12 +0100i' From: Jiri Kulhan <lars.nospam@post.cz>t Subject: Infoserver disk2 Message-ID: <CFN373020786118171@news.felk.cvut.cz>   Hi=2Ci  Q I've just felt into troubles=2E The system disk of my prehistoric Infoserver 100 fO has died and I'm not able to restore the software from any source=2E My VXT is aV almost unusable =28low mem=2C no paging file available=29=2C no CD-ROM=2FCD-RW=2Ftape . access from VMS systems=2E=2E=2E =3A-=28=28=28  N Could anyone provide me with image of Infoserver system disk=3F Or do anybody . know some way how to install a fresh system=3F  	 Thanks=2Cr   Jiri   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:44:48 +0000t From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>tL Subject: Re: Job Posting - VMS Managed Service Contract Manager - Groton, CT) Message-ID: <3C6C059F.50DAF617@Omond.net>    "Doug Roberts, jr" wrote:e  F > I should have also posted that this position is based in Groton, CT.   Yeah, but which country ????  3 *sigh* ... yet more USofAcentrism (I'm guessing :-)o  	 Roy Omonds Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 15:20:28 -0800- From: adrian_ogden@hotmail.com (Scumbag Adie)t8 Subject: Re: Load Balancing DNA across 2*2MBit WAN links= Message-ID: <91445c94.0202141520.1cd064c1@posting.google.com>t  v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0202140644.503c8a18@posting.google.com>...z > adrian_ogden@nospamhotmail.com (Scumbag Adie) wrote in message news:<91445c94.0202140124.1d5c0d4d@posting.google.com>...A > > The fundamental problem to resolve is are there any technicalnG > > reasons why running a 4Mb link between cluster nodes instead of thed= > > mandated 10Mb minimum would be a bad idea other than justU@ > > performance (its only to be used for shadowing small disks)?D > > I thought I've run a cluster satellite on a 64Kb link before now > > quite happily. > = > Yes, I've heard at least 2 other reports at DECUS of peopleoH > sucessfully booting a satellite node into a cluster over a 56Kb line. E > People have also run clusters over microwave links that really onlyeE > give about 6Mb bandwidth despite having 10Mb Ethernet interfaces on B > each end.  (When you think about it, the old 10Mb Ethernet, withE > contention on a coaxial cable (which was the technology at the timeeF > the limit was set), really only provided about 7Mb of real bandwidthA > tops, due to collisions.)  So your 4 Mb isn't that far from thea > supported situation. > E > If you don't need official support, then feel free to forge ahead.  H > The risk you take and the experience you gain benefits the rest of us.F >  It wouldn't be the first time a customer pushed a technology beyond= > its supported limits to meet their specific business needs.  > G > The 10Mb specification was set before the improvements that Lee LeahytG > did (with the help of Verell Boaen, Tom Coughlan, and Paul Harter) inpH > PEDRIVER at V6.0. It is my technical opinion that it would be possibleF > to modify the cluster SPD to now officially support at least T1 (1.5F > Mb) and E1 (2Mb) links in clusters, with appropriate limits on, say,E > cluster size, and some caveats about performance.  I'd be much lessu: > confident about the success of using 56Kb or 64Kb links. > F > I also know, thanks to a brave customer's experience, that a clusterE > can run with 151 nodes (and based on examining the code, in theory,uF > probably work up to about 224 nodes), despite the supported limit inH > the SPD being 96 nodes.  (I've lobbied to raise it to at least 128, toF > at least match the claims of competitors such as HP, but that hasn'tG > happened yet.)  I don't want to give the impression that there was notD > risk, in fact, that customer did run up against some real bugs andE > hard-coded limits during their testing (which have been fixed), but-F > their business needs at the time necessitated what they did, and DECA > learned a lot thanks to their experience.  They arranged to get F > best-effort support from VMS Engineering, but with no guarantees (ifB > they encountered a problem that proved to be insurmountable, theE > answer from DEC might have been to drop back to 96 nodes), and that)D > level of support turned out to be good enough for their purposes.   > Perhaps you could do the same. > C > Changing either of these limits in the SPD itself would require a-D > perception of customer demand and/or competitive need, followed byH > some qualification work to ensure that it would actually work reliablyF > under all conceivable conditions and that Compaq wouldn't get burned@ > in officially supporting the expanded capabilities.  If you'reH > interested, the appropriate thing to do would be to express your needs6 > to the Product Manager for OpenVMS Cluster Software, > Andy.Schneider@compaq.com.A > ---------------------------------------------------------------fA > Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on: @ > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs  : << Don't I just lov being at the fore-front of technology!C << If both ends of the link have three nodes and I'm only using theq link tolE << shadow one member of a shadow set would the cluster performance ath@ one end << depend on the performance of the link (or be affectedB adversley) assumming << no shadow copies are in progress?  One endD would be a standby for the other << and not doing any work until the? other end had its applications shutdown and << restarted at the F standby. I'm trying here to understand what bandwidth would << be usedC by the actual shadowing v's that needed by other cluster processes.r3 <<  Adie (also doing strange things with Proliants)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:13:14 -0000f5 From: "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>cA Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime . Message-ID: <a4h5me$n6p$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  < "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote in message, news:3C6BCDE7.EC292EB6@clarityconnect.com.... > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETSYI("CLUSTER_FTIME") >t  3 Perhaps a nice addition to the named absolute times A (YESTERDAY,TODAY,TOMORROW, LOGIN, BOOT) would be CLUSTER_BOOT (oro& CLUSTER_FTIME), just for completeness?  L Yes I know you could do DIR /SINCE="''F$GETSYI("CLUSTER_FTIME")'", but, just$ for completeness it would be nice...   -- Malcolm MacArthuri  , Subtract nine for e-mail (anti-spam measure)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:22:02 -0500r5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u# Subject: Re: Microsoft's financialsh/ Message-ID: <zPPa8.22$YS1.362@news.cpqcorp.net>m  L From what I remember from reading the BillParish (c) report, this has littleF to do with his particular rantings.  This has to do with Microsoft notI reporting all their revenue in good quarters, and effectively putting theo< unreported revenue into a 'rainy day' fund for bad quarters.  J Most companies tend to inflate their numbers to look better always, and inJ the end it eventually catches up with them.  Microsoft plays games to hideE better than expected numbers, so they can use the excess to make poor F quarters look better.  So it's a bit of a "cheat" to keep from getting* beaten up by the market in a poor quarter.    ! Jerry Leslie wrote in message ...g' >Rick Turner (rnturn@baxter.com) wrote:e# >: See the story on The Register atr8 >: URL=http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/24046.html >:B >: Sounds like the SEC is paying attention after all.  Perhaps Mr.B >: Parrish's allegations might have spurred some inquiries into MS% >: finances.  Could be interesting...s >eB >   http://money.cnn.com/2002/02/13/technology/microsoft/index.htm= >   Report: SEC probes Microsoft's statements - Feb. 13, 2002r >g
 >   [snip] > H >  "The investigation was apparently sparked by former Microsoft auditorJ >   Charles Pancerzewski, who sued the company for wrongful termination inJ >   1997 and later settled with the company. Pancerzewski, who says he wasI >   terminated for complaining about accounting practices, told the paper ( >   he last talked to the SEC last year. > F >   He disputed that underestimating revenue and income would not hurtD >   investors, arguing that a company doing so would allow it to useI >   reserves it built up on the books to show earnings growth that it had- >   not truly achieved.- >-I >   The paper cites an e-mail, disclosed during Pancerzewski's suit, thatoJ >   former Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Michael Brown sent to companyH >   Chairman Bill Gates in which he said, "I believe we should do all weG >   can to smooth our earnings and keep a steady state earnings model."  >lE >   Shares of Microsoft (MSFT: Research, Estimates)  lost 99 cents toy >   $60.14 in trading Tuesday."y >f >e5 >--Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:01:59 -0500m5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>s$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <scJrPHkqLroWuSFhCRezcFDNnHKx@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:59:43 -0500, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >David Beatty wrote: >e >l8 >> He might very well be, but the product does exist and) >> apparently many customers swear by it.o > % >There is still a Flat Earth Society.a >rJ >Bill Gates is P.T.Barnum's successor, at least with respect to the quote  >commonly attributed to him.  ; ... and your remarks have exacty what to do with Endurance?s   David R. Beattyr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:00:47 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C6C897C.7FA7A450@fsi.net>n   David Beatty wrote:  > 7 > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:20:07 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"s  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >David Beatty wrote: > >>G > >>     There is an interesting blurb in the "Positive Plenum" sectionl@ > >> of the Objective American for Wednesday, February 13, 2002;> > >> it can be accessed from http://www.objectiveamerican.com.? > >> A former Digital employee, Robert Glorioso, has created ana= > >> inexpensive way to couple up to four Windows servers and @ > >> do so with five-9s uptime, at a cost of $20K to $100K.  The? > >> configuration is called Endurance.  One wonders if he used3A > >> ideas from VMS clusters?  At any rate, it should prove to be0 > >> interesting.r > >o > >"Crashless"???!!! > >bI > >The article itself identifies the problem: Windows crashes frequently.c > >?7 > >This product doesn't solve the problem, it masks it.  > >t > >Band-aid solution, at best. > ? >     True, but as long as the application keeps running and nor6 > transactions are lost, what difference does it make?  / No transactions lost? Can you possibly be sure?s  , Better not try that in the healthcare field!   -- s David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2002 22:52 CSTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t/ Subject: Re: OT: Proliant DL and DS-10 cabinets*- Message-ID: <14FEB200222521817@gerg.tamu.edu>e  s In article <20020214183741.15798.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes...d3 }Just an personal opinion to the engineering peoplet, }at Compaq which develops these 1U servers.. } 4 }We are instaling a Beowulf cluster with 32 Proliant- }DL servers and what mess of cables....power,l }network and storage (FC). } - }Why dont Compaq use a "backplane" as used byn& }the DNPG products - ex-DEC products ? } 6 }These DL and DS server should have the possibility to0 }install a backplane. Each 5, 10 for example.... }  }Regards }  }FC   > Perhaps you should have gone with the new BL series Proliants.9 They are the new "Blade" type system which fits 20 sinlge.9 processor (700MHz at the moment) systems into a single 3Us rack mount enclosure.v   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:55:27 GMTd6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>' Subject: Re: Pathworks 32 on Windows XP D Message-ID: <zfXa8.7870$qt6.713956@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  I Not missing anything.  Last I heard there was no Pathworks client plannedt for XP.  If H you can enable Pathworks over IP on the VMS host, you can use the native Windows2I IP client to connect to a Pathworks share.  The 7.2 client support NT andc	 Win 2000.l$ Usual warning about licensing apply.       --   Andy Bustamantea( remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail      0 "CasinoOp2" <casinoop2@aol.com> wrote in message3 news:20020212181035.21114.00000876@mb-fz.aol.com...oJ > >> Does anyone know of a version of Pathworks 32 that works with Windows XP?. > >TheL > >> version I have (7.2?) loads find on Windows NT, but fails on Windows XPH > >> ("unsupported operating system"). When I look at the Compaq site, I cannot > >finda; > >> a version of Pathworks for XP. Am I missing something?g > >>@ > > There is a patch available for XP, call your support center. > >-
 > >Regards > >1	 > >Grard1 > >5 >0= > Gerald, any idea of the patch # or what it might be called?. >> >     Clark: >w >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:56:36 +0400B4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>M Subject: Re[2]: Can I change or prevent the change of the revised file date ? 4 Message-ID: <1886711718.20020215095636@ncc.volga.ru>  ' On 14.02.2002 Mark <no@mail.com> wrote:   B > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:38:39 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  U >>In article <dcvn6uc50jutg9guooh3l8ia83bk924t68@4ax.com>, Mark <no@mail.com> writes:BP >>>I need to move files around and modify attributes of the file.  But, in doingQ >>>so, the revised date changes.  Is there a way to prevent the revised date from J >>>changing on any "set file" command OR is there a utility/way to force a >>>revised date on a file ?c >>E >>The CONVERT utility/command can be used to modify date information.  >>7 >>$ CONVERT/FDL=SYS$INPUT <in-file-spec> <out-file-spc>n* >>DATE; REVISION "06-AUG-1960 12:34:56.78" >>^Z    L > This is good....very good.  Thank you.  BUT, is there a way to do it on anP > existing file without creating a new version?  It may not be too big a deal if > not.  L > Also, do I need to be careful with convert in how it treats binaries or isM > benign on layout/contents when used as above?  I'm not overly familiar withr > the convert utility.  B  "DFU set file my_file.txt /revi=<desired date and time>" does the
 trick for me.o   -- t   Valentin Likoumn   valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:05:29 -0500c1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>2; Subject: Re: Running TCPIPTRACE crashes an Alphaserver ES40-2 Message-ID: <3C6BB619.B1B232B8@firstdbasource.com>   Peter J Smout wrote: > H > Is anyone aware of a VMS 7.1-2 bug where running TCPIPTRACE apparently% > crashes the alpha when you logout ?rE > Version of UCX is V4.2 - ECO 2 I cannot find anything on the net at 2 > all yet the info came from a Compaq engineer ???  = Don't you think it is about time to upgrade?  It works for me  VMS7.2-1/TCPIP5.0A ECO3n   >  > Thanks is advance6 -- c Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163n7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:33:28 -0800c% From: J Ahlstrom <jahlstro@cisco.com>jY Subject: Scandinavian Language(s) was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( i) Message-ID: <3C6C2D28.F1BED142@cisco.com>e   Terje Mathisen wrote:  >  > Peter Finderup Lund wrote: > >.; > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:s > >oH > > > I know the Danish also sing their language, but I don't think it's > > > critical that they do. > >sJ > > No we don't.  At least not in general - only a few  dialects are a bitL > > like that.  None of them have "musical accent" (is that what it's calledC > > in English?) like Chinese or ancient Greeek to some extent had.l > >lL > > Danish is infamous among the Scandinavian tongues for /not/ having a lotF > > of melody (only very few tones are used and they are quite close). > H > Indeed. All Danes speak as if they have a potato in their mouth, or at; > least this is what it sounds like to most Norwegians. :-)r > >o( > > Maybe you are thinking of Norwegian? > J > Possibly some west coast or northern dialect then, 'Bokml' is too close > to Danish. >  > Terjea >  > --" > - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>B > "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"      The way I heard it there is only# 1 Scandinavian language, it is just * that the Swedes don't know how to spell it- and the Danes don't know how to pronounce it.e     --  , The first ten amendments to the constitution+ are what make this a country worth fightingM+ for.  Ignorance and apathy are what make it  so difficult to defend.A      Jack Barone  2 You do not preserve freedom by destroying freedom.      Eric Greeno   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:10:55 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o> Subject: Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet, Message-ID: <3C6C5205.764258D2@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote:mH > access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be > considering?  H I still get the occasional microsoft nimda/code red attack attempts fromM inside the ISP (port 80). I got the router to log but block those calls so aseL to not fill the web server log. (the ISP blocks port 80 from the outside, so it doesn't lose me much).0  I Another one I have seen is port 515 (lpd printing). If you don't have lpdr' enabled the it isn't much of a problem.   N I reported to my ISP the ip adresses of those who were trying o infect me withL that microsoft crap, and for the last couple of weeks, I rarely get any port 80 requests.  J And yes, I too was surprised when I got the router and started logging the" stuff how much activity there was.  J Make sure that you have relaying disabled on SMTP. (tcpip show config smtp should have NORELAY)   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 18:57:23 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141857.7d7a08f0@posting.google.com>o  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3C6C400C.9090808@tsoft-inc.com>...J > Well, I've read about security, and I've talked about security, but I'm = > pretty sure that it's what I don't know that could hurt me.  > B > I've recently made one of my VMS systems visable to my internet J > connection, via settings in my router.  It's a rather plain venella VMS K > V7.2-1 system with TCPIP V5.0A, DECnet IV, etc.  Since doing this, I see u$ > the following several times a day. > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-FEB-2002 17:28:39.08  %%%%%%%%%%%$ > Message from user INTERnet on JODII > INTERnet ACP FTP Accept Request from Host: 209.127.72.194   Port: 49637V > I > Yep, there appears to be those with nothing better to do than probe IP hH > addresses.  I haven't yet been able to identify the domain for any of K > the IP addresses I've seen.  Most probes are FTP connect requests, but I o > did see one TELNET attempt.I > J > I've got only a few user accounts, some with privs, and others without. K >   It's my feeling that reasonable username and password data, along with aG > break-in detection and countermeasures, should be adequate security. bH > There's nothing important on the system, but it could be a gateway to G > other systems (once someone's in) that are a bit more valuable to me.a > C > Keeping up with the hackers and their techniques isn't one of my dE > activities.I do development work.  Security has never been a daily  H > activity for me.  It's the things that I'm not aware of that will get  > me, if anything does.i > G > I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that are aH > available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outside I > access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be n > considering? >  > Dave  I yes, TCPware and packet filtering ... turn off telnet and ftp and all theiM other goodies hackers like to mess with and you will sleep well at nights ...u   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:00:06 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141900.412f2d27@posting.google.com>n  \ David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message news:<3C6C400C.9090808@tsoft-inc.com>...J > Well, I've read about security, and I've talked about security, but I'm = > pretty sure that it's what I don't know that could hurt me.o > B > I've recently made one of my VMS systems visable to my internet J > connection, via settings in my router.  It's a rather plain venella VMS K > V7.2-1 system with TCPIP V5.0A, DECnet IV, etc.  Since doing this, I see d$ > the following several times a day. > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-FEB-2002 17:28:39.08  %%%%%%%%%%%$ > Message from user INTERnet on JODII > INTERnet ACP FTP Accept Request from Host: 209.127.72.194   Port: 49637n > I > Yep, there appears to be those with nothing better to do than probe IP mH > addresses.  I haven't yet been able to identify the domain for any of K > the IP addresses I've seen.  Most probes are FTP connect requests, but I e > did see one TELNET attempt.  > J > I've got only a few user accounts, some with privs, and others without. K >   It's my feeling that reasonable username and password data, along with <G > break-in detection and countermeasures, should be adequate security. sH > There's nothing important on the system, but it could be a gateway to G > other systems (once someone's in) that are a bit more valuable to me.o > C > Keeping up with the hackers and their techniques isn't one of my sE > activities.I do development work.  Security has never been a daily vH > activity for me.  It's the things that I'm not aware of that will get  > me, if anything does.6 > G > I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that are  H > available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outside I > access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be m > considering? >  > Dave  N and if you want a secure gateway to these other boxes, TCPware decnet phase iv, over ip tunnels will do the trick nicely ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:54:04 -0500-( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>: Subject: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet, Message-ID: <3C6C400C.9090808@tsoft-inc.com>  H Well, I've read about security, and I've talked about security, but I'm ; pretty sure that it's what I don't know that could hurt me.s  @ I've recently made one of my VMS systems visable to my internet H connection, via settings in my router.  It's a rather plain venella VMS I V7.2-1 system with TCPIP V5.0A, DECnet IV, etc.  Since doing this, I see  " the following several times a day.  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-FEB-2002 17:28:39.08  %%%%%%%%%%%" Message from user INTERnet on JODIG INTERnet ACP FTP Accept Request from Host: 209.127.72.194   Port: 49637u  G Yep, there appears to be those with nothing better to do than probe IP nF addresses.  I haven't yet been able to identify the domain for any of I the IP addresses I've seen.  Most probes are FTP connect requests, but I i did see one TELNET attempt.h  H I've got only a few user accounts, some with privs, and others without. I   It's my feeling that reasonable username and password data, along with eE break-in detection and countermeasures, should be adequate security.  F There's nothing important on the system, but it could be a gateway to E other systems (once someone's in) that are a bit more valuable to me.]  A Keeping up with the hackers and their techniques isn't one of my tC activities.I do development work.  Security has never been a daily  F activity for me.  It's the things that I'm not aware of that will get  me, if anything does.   E I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that are  F available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outside G access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be   considering?   Dave   -- i4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:50:49 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o> Subject: Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet2 Message-ID: <3C6C5B69.8851D690@firstdbasource.com>  D If you disuser Anonymous or set up your anonymous users to have zeroF privs and read-only access on your the anonymous directory, you shouldD be fairly safe.. Mine was set up this way and I constantly would getH attempts to create a directory (no access priv :)  )  people try to dumpH and forward data on your ftp server.  they put it there and someone else& reads it. usually very large files....   David Froble wrote:D > I > Well, I've read about security, and I've talked about security, but I'mt= > pretty sure that it's what I don't know that could hurt me.  > A > I've recently made one of my VMS systems visable to my internet,I > connection, via settings in my router.  It's a rather plain venella VMSnJ > V7.2-1 system with TCPIP V5.0A, DECnet IV, etc.  Since doing this, I see$ > the following several times a day. > : > %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  14-FEB-2002 17:28:39.08  %%%%%%%%%%%$ > Message from user INTERnet on JODII > INTERnet ACP FTP Accept Request from Host: 209.127.72.194   Port: 49637e > H > Yep, there appears to be those with nothing better to do than probe IPG > addresses.  I haven't yet been able to identify the domain for any of J > the IP addresses I've seen.  Most probes are FTP connect requests, but I > did see one TELNET attempt.d > I > I've got only a few user accounts, some with privs, and others without.aJ >   It's my feeling that reasonable username and password data, along withF > break-in detection and countermeasures, should be adequate security.G > There's nothing important on the system, but it could be a gateway tonG > other systems (once someone's in) that are a bit more valuable to me.e > B > Keeping up with the hackers and their techniques isn't one of myD > activities.I do development work.  Security has never been a dailyG > activity for me.  It's the things that I'm not aware of that will getb > me, if anything does.  > F > I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that areG > available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outsidetH > access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be > considering? >  > Dave >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   -- r Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com4 Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:07:25 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e> Subject: Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet3 Message-ID: <X0cZva633pda@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  W In article <3C6C400C.9090808@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:d   > G > I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that are ?H > available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outside I > access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be   > considering? >   : 	Some fairly common techniques... assuming vanilla system.  # 	1)  Identify all privved accounts. 9 	2)  Disuser non-essential privved accounts - FIELD, etc.t7 	3)  Make SYSTEM /NOLOCAL - i.e. batch and detach only.-@ 	4)  Before doing 3, add another unguessable username with PRIV.- 		Access this account to do anything privved.t  8 	5)  Depending on TCPIP package, you should do something, 		like this (note: trimmed several options):   SERVER-CONFIG>show /full telneta Service "TELNET":n1         TCP socket (AF_INET,SOCK_STREAM), Port 23o#         SERVICE() = Internal_Telneth&         Accept Hosts = IP-188.88.71.98#         Accept Nets = IP-198.44.0.0t2         Reject by default all other hosts and nets    @ 	That one host allowed to remote TELNET has a hole burned in theC 	firewall.  Otherwise, we only allow TELNET connections from *our* aI 	network.  Those IP addresses above are not real.  Do the same for FTP.  kF 	Check over all TCPIP services and disable any not in use.  Don't use A 	RSHELL , RLOGIN to this box.  Treat it as a potential source of i 	infection.>  A 	Keep an eye on your logs.  Write a DCL routine to scan log files 4 	for "rejects" (appears you are already doing that).  @ 	For extra safety, you might want to access that privved account= 	only when you have Internet connection down OR directly from1A 	a workstation console.  Do NOT TELNET into that privved account.aB 	Is this necessary?  Who knows... but flying unprotected (i.e. no $ 	firewall) even with VMS... what if?   				Robm   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2002 02:19:55 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.1 eco 3 memory leaks( Message-ID: <3c6c623b@news.kapsch.co.at>  h In article <d7791aa1.0202082030.730e8947@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:M >Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3C6030D0.4010008@home.nl>... B >> If you experience problems with TCPIP 5.1 eco 3 , like slugish L >> performance and "process quota exeeded" messages, then please be advised H >> that there are memory leak problems with this version. I noticed the L >> trouble with CSWS, FTP and POP,  and our friendly software engineer gave A >> me some patches that resolved the problem on my hobby machine.D >YF >if you would use TCPware, you wouldn't have any of these problems ...  . I'm a TCPware fan, but I can't let this stand.  H eg. I've a problem with TCPware GATED becoming CPU bound (with Prio 8 !)C - if/when a broadcast storm happens -  for many years/versions now.l@ (I'm only a hobbyist now, so a support call was/is out of scope)  I Every SW packet has its limitations (and TCPware isn't bugfree either)...i   -- r< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888a< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:32:04 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>r# Subject: Re: TCPIP$Config  problemst' Message-ID: <3C6A86F4.BF33FD2A@aaa.com>b  - There seams to be a bug (?) in TCPIP$CONFIG :    $MENUC_TODO_N = 17 $ELSE E $MENUC_TODO_L = "0" + ":''MC_FTP'" + ":''MC_LPD'" + ''MC_FINGER'" + - @ ":''MC_PORT'" + ":''MC_TELN'" + ":''MC_SNMP'" + ":''MC_NTP'" + -@ ":''MC_METRIC'" + ":''MC_POP'" + ":''MC_RMT'" + ":''MC_LBROKER'" $MENUC_TODO_N = 11 $ENDIF  0 In the code above the part : + ''MC_FINGER'" + -% should read : + ":''MC_FINGER'" + -  s   Note the lacking >>>":<<< !w  = A quick workaround could be the edit TCPIP$CONFIG.COM and fix-/ this. Be sure to keep a copy of the orig. Test.r   Jan-Erik Sderholm   hieronymous wrote: > R > I recently installed TCPIP 5.1 but I have a problem completing the configurationL > due to a syntax error in TCPIP$CONFIG.com;      When I start it, then takeJ > the option 3, "Server Components", then "A",  I see the following error: > (with set verify)  >  > -----t5 >     $MENUC_TODO_L = "0" + ":05" + ":07" + MC_FINGERt' >     ":14" + ":18" + ":17" + ":11" + - L >     %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling >      \":14"\ >     ":08" + ":13" + ":16 + - >     $EXIT: > -----d > Q > Clearly missing the "-" at the end of the first line but unfortunately the lineh. > itself is generated within TCPIP$CONFIG.com. > = > Anybody else get this?  ..or an idea for getting out of it? O > Alternatively, the reason I installed 5.1 was for the XDM support;  how can I / > configure XDM without using TCPIP$CONFIG.com?s   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2002 01:06:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: Telnet problems0 Message-ID: <878z9wouvk.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  ( "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> writes:  / > I am using TCP-IP Services Ver 5 from Compaq.   B Isn't that the version with the 'negotiation of death' telent bug? Does the net go near 100% busy?o   -- w< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:30:20 +0000e1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net>m Subject: Re: TLZ06 questionR- Message-ID: <3C6C488C.67430BB0@starpower.net>e   Chris Scheers wrote: > h > Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in message news:<3C68DB7C.358815D3@starpower.net>...L > > I have a TLZ06-AA drive that I tested in a MicroVAX 3100/40 with VMS 7.15 > > It works fine and ">show dev" lists it just once.  > > H > > I then installed it in a 4000/105A in the same cluster.  In the 105A* > > ">show dev" and ">show scsi" produces: > >o > > -MKA500 (DEC TLZ06)) > > -MKA501 () > > -MKA502 () > > -MKA503 () > > -MKA504 () > > -MKA505 () > > -MKA506 () > > -MKA507 () > >lD > > The drive works just fine and VMS "show dev" only lists it once. > >e- > > Are the 501..507 devices none zero LUN's?s$ > > Why does it produce this output? > E > I see this problem most often when two devices on the SCSI bus haves > the same ID. > G > Remember to check the SCSI ID of the controller.  The SCSI controllers > itself is also a device. > A > If there are no duplicate IDs, you have a timing/firmware issueaH > between the device and the SCSI controller.  Try putting the device atE > a different place in the SCSI chain.  Or leave the DAT drive on the-) > 3100/40.  Or get a different DAT drive.o >  > Good luck!  C All three of my TLZ06's do the same thing.  I found if I change thet> SCSI-1/SCSI-2 switch to SCSI-1 the tape drive only shows up as( MKA500.  I wonder what that switch does.   Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:27:23 -0000y From: sword7@speakeasy.org3 Subject: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.t/ Message-ID: <u6o3sr7ulobdbf@corp.supernews.com>i   Hello folks:  C Well, I studied entire CHMK #32 tracings but found nothing is wrongeC with that.  Bugs had not found yet.  I decided to commented out two%F lines in emulated PROBE instruction (check previous mode for requestedB mode) and recompiled my TS10 (VAX) emulator to see what happens...  F All problems disappeared and OpenVMS get so much (infinitely) further!H I successfully completed the secondary OpenVMS installation.  I rebootedD system and booted OpenVMS through messages from OPCOM, etc into the E userland and finally 'Username:'!  I was able logged into system withi out any problems.s  I I tested some commands like 'sh user', 'sh system', etc..  They worked solB well. However, OpenVMS complaint about a few things.  Some logicalF names 'no matched' error messages, and a few access violation messages@ during STARTUP.COM scripts.  OpenVMS did not tell me a bug check? message but it was found in my debug.log file - Bug Check #474.   B I believe that some problems in PROBE instructions or a problem in@ terminal stream routines ($QIO - queue I/O system).  Does anyoneC have complete information about PROBE instructions with their inneri@ workings?  My VAX arch manual (1st edition) said that PROBE must@ check perivous mode in PSL for requested mode (1st operand).  IfC pervious mode is higher than requested mode, changed requested moden3 to match previous mode or higher (least privilege).e  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:36:37 -0500n  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>7 Subject: Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.e6 Message-ID: <1020214201523.19306A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  / On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:    > Hello folks: > E > Well, I studied entire CHMK #32 tracings but found nothing is wrongiE > with that.  Bugs had not found yet.  I decided to commented out twosH > lines in emulated PROBE instruction (check previous mode for requestedD > mode) and recompiled my TS10 (VAX) emulator to see what happens... > H > All problems disappeared and OpenVMS get so much (infinitely) further!J > I successfully completed the secondary OpenVMS installation.  I rebootedF > system and booted OpenVMS through messages from OPCOM, etc into the G > userland and finally 'Username:'!  I was able logged into system withP > out any problems.  > K > I tested some commands like 'sh user', 'sh system', etc..  They worked so D > well. However, OpenVMS complaint about a few things.  Some logicalH > names 'no matched' error messages, and a few access violation messagesB > during STARTUP.COM scripts.  OpenVMS did not tell me a bug checkA > message but it was found in my debug.log file - Bug Check #474.  > D > I believe that some problems in PROBE instructions or a problem inB > terminal stream routines ($QIO - queue I/O system).  Does anyoneE > have complete information about PROBE instructions with their innerrB > workings?  My VAX arch manual (1st edition) said that PROBE mustB > check perivous mode in PSL for requested mode (1st operand).  IfE > pervious mode is higher than requested mode, changed requested mode 5 > to match previous mode or higher (least privilege).   A This matches my 1981 VAX Arch Handbook...  Are you setting a tempiC value to the max (requested mode, previous mode) or are you setting G the mode arg of the PROBE instruction?  If you change the instruction'suK arg, I can easily see things breaking.  (For example, same code is checking F accessibility of a buffer from the caller's mode.  Sometime the callerF is user mode (prev_mode=3) and sometimes it's kernel (prev_mode=0), soB the 1st call from user mode modifies the arg to a "3" and it staysG there forever, thus producing spurious errors when prev_mode is kernel.I  G The first edition (what year? mine doesn't say what edition it is, justsG "1981" on the spine) doesn't have the self-relative queue instructions,rD and who knows what else.  I can't imaging VMS working with out them, though.e  C The current Macro-32 assembler manual (VAX Macro and Instuction Set A Reference Manual) is included in the online DOCS and should be atE the Compaq doc site:  %   http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/7$   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/+   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/t   (from the FAQ.)r   HTH    >  > Thank you! >  > -- Tim Stark   -- f John Santosh Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 05:01:19 -0000s From: sword7@speakeasy.org7 Subject: Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems. / Message-ID: <u6p5gvqejqhk3b@corp.supernews.com>n  1 In comp.sys.dec John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:cC > This matches my 1981 VAX Arch Handbook...  Are you setting a tempgE > value to the max (requested mode, previous mode) or are you settingbI > the mode arg of the PROBE instruction?  If you change the instruction's M > arg, I can easily see things breaking.  (For example, same code is checkingiH > accessibility of a buffer from the caller's mode.  Sometime the callerH > is user mode (prev_mode=3) and sometimes it's kernel (prev_mode=0), soD > the 1st call from user mode modifies the arg to a "3" and it staysI > there forever, thus producing spurious errors when prev_mode is kernel.h  J Well, manual said that PROBE instructions use previous mode to maxize modeF (least privilege).  Yes, I set temp value to test them on my emulator.@ I now uncommented two lines in emulated PROBE instruction.  Yes,' I made some tests to trying find a bug.e  D If I set transmit delay to 200, I noticed that CHMK #32 transmitted B a first character to the console terminal and quickly exited with E result code #8001 before an interrupt occured from TXCS tell TXDB is eA ready to receive another character.  When all terminal stream is AH finished, it tried to return results but it ended up PROBE test failure H and returned with #040C error code during AST delivered (IPL 2).  PROBE J tried probe (access test) executive stack with previous mode (supervisor)!' That is much difficult to debug it. :-(u  I > The first edition (what year? mine doesn't say what edition it is, just I > "1981" on the spine) doesn't have the self-relative queue instructions, F > and who knows what else.  I can't imaging VMS working with out them,	 > though.h  H My first edition is "1987" that have information about queue instrctions
 but not much.e  E > The current Macro-32 assembler manual (VAX Macro and Instuction SetsC > Reference Manual) is included in the online DOCS and should be att > the Compaq doc site:   Yes, I am aware of that.   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:53:49 -0000e) From: "Neil Taylor" <neil@uk-portals.com>  Subject: UK Portal Seminar8 Message-ID: <iss.40a.3c6c7ada.81112.1@mx2.east.saic.com>  L <p><a href=3D"http://www.uk-portals.com"><img src=3D"http://www.rmstest.co.=E uk/index_banner.gif" width=3D"700" height=3D"80" border=3D"0"></a>=20  </p>N <p><font face=3D"Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2"><a href=3D=L "http://www.uk-portals.com"><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">HTT=% P://WWW.UK-PORTALS.COM.</font></a>=20oL   <font size=3D"1" face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">(**Please note an = important=202   mailing message at the bottom)</font></font></p>L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2"><b>CAN YOU SPEND = =A310,000.00=20yL   FROM UK PORTAL LIMITED FOR MARKETING YOUR BUSINESS IN YOUR LOCAL AREA?</b= ></font></p>L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">If you think you = can, then=20L   please join us for an open forum at a location closest to you. We are car= rying=20L   out a series of seminars/road shows all over the United Kingdom. The them= e of=20fL   these road shows is "BUILDING A PROFITABLE ONLINE BUSINESS SERVING YOUR L= OCAL=20d   AREA "</font></p> L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">UK Portals Limite= d is sponsoring=20L   local entrepreneurs and small businesses to develop local virtual real es= tate=20 L   for towns around the United Kingdom. These virtual towns will act as the =
 gateway=20L   to the Internet for each specific area. You can help to develop a viable =
 profitable=200?   and beneficial Internet gateway for your locality.</font></p>tL <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Contact us to fin= d out about=20L   the open forum event at a location near you today. This is the simplest w= ay=20sL   to discover the immense potential of serving your town through providing = an=20aL   Internet gateway for local activities and business. Attending a seminar w= ill=20L   give you the chance of running the most comprehensively designed local ga= teway=20#   platform in the world.</font></p>4L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">The service provi= sion platform=20L   is a proven revenue builder that is quietly but purposefully changing the=  way=20 L   people do business within localities. There will be millionaires made fro= m the=20L   provision of service to local communities all over the United Kingdom in = the=20L   next few years, you can decide if you want to be one of these millionaire=
 s after=20&   attending the open forum.</font></p>L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Please go to <a h=< ref=3D"http://www.uk-portals.com">www.uk-portals.com,</a>=20L   <a href=3D"http://www.uk-portals.com/worcester">Worcester</a>, <a href=3D=. "http://www.uk-portals.com/eastlondon">East=20L   London</a> and <a href=3D"http://www.uk-portals.com/birmingham">Birmingha= m</a>=20L   to see what is possible in your area. To find out about events in your lo= cal=20L   area, please contact Portal Admin - <a href=3D"mailto:keith@uk-portals.co=& m">admin@uk-portals.com</a></font></p> <dl>=20 L   <dt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Thank you</fon= t></dt>    <dd>=A0</dd>L   <dt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Keith Ajagun</=
 font></dt>L   <dt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Marketing Dire= ctor </font></dt> L   <dt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">UK Portals Lim= ited</font></dt>L   <dt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Managed by Fre= echariot=202     Limited</font></dt>lL   <dt><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">Tel: 0870 7419= 121 </font></dt> </dl>6L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">PS: Let me emphas= ise that=20sL   we will be working with only 1 to 2 people in viable local communities ar= ound=20aL   the UK. I will therefore strongly advise you to look at this opportunity = today=20L   if you are looking for a proven profitable business that will easily gene= rate=20v$   profit in a few months.</font></p>L <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"2">PPS: Please let m=	 e also=20rL   point out that this opportunity will reveal a service business of such si= mplicity=20uL   that will not only profit you but also keep you fully focussed. You can h= elp=207   mould the future, if you only care enough.</font></p>tL <p><font face=3D"Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size=3D"1"><b>**NO SPAM: We = apologise=20L   if this email has gotten to you by mistake - someone must have accidental= ly=20ML   submitted your email address into our opt-in database. Please respond to = this=20 J   mail with a "remove" and we will make sure that you are not disturbed=20   in the future.</b></font></p>-   ------------------------------   Date: 14 FEB 2002 14:39:54 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)  Subject: Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics6 Message-ID: <14FEB02.14395448@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  ? In a previous article, Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> wrote:M ->Rob Buxton wrote:: -> FI ->> On 13 Feb 2002 18:39:29 GMT, "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote:: ->> L ->>>Is it true that we must use Windows to view diagnostics on OpenVMS v7.3?7 ->>>Gone are the days of $ANALYZE/ERROR and $DIAGNOSE ?b ->>  ->> No it's not true."D ->> If you've got DECEvent installed it still works with 7.3 without, ->> needing any kind of windows environment. ->>  ->> diagnose/interactive ->> diagnose/translate/summary ->>  ->> all work as they should  ->>  -> u? ->Unless you have an ES40 or some other newer EV6-based system.e  G However you still have VMS command line capability with Compaq Analyze.;4 It sort of emulates Diagnose (though not very well):   	$ ca v /translate/summary  A As others have pointed out CA, is a huge resource pig (even on anM
 ES40/833).   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:02:25 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: vms 7.3 diagnostics' Message-ID: <3C6C89DD.20A53126@fsi.net>a   Carl Karcher wrote:. > A > In a previous article, Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net> wrote:  > ->Rob Buxton wrote:r > ->K > ->> On 13 Feb 2002 18:39:29 GMT, "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote:  > ->>CN > ->>>Is it true that we must use Windows to view diagnostics on OpenVMS v7.3?9 > ->>>Gone are the days of $ANALYZE/ERROR and $DIAGNOSE ?c > ->>T > ->> No it's not true.DF > ->> If you've got DECEvent installed it still works with 7.3 without. > ->> needing any kind of windows environment. > ->>o > ->> diagnose/interactive  > ->> diagnose/translate/summary > ->>n > ->> all work as they should0 > ->>o > ->A > ->Unless you have an ES40 or some other newer EV6-based system.6 > I > However you still have VMS command line capability with Compaq Analyze. 6 > It sort of emulates Diagnose (though not very well): > # >         $ ca v /translate/summaryh > C > As others have pointed out CA, is a huge resource pig (even on an- > ES40/833).  @ ...to say nothing of the way it burns up CPU time on our GS160s!   -- < David J. Dachterar dba DJE SystemsR http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:21:28 -05008  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>- Subject: Re: VMS 7.3, DECnet IV, proxy access16 Message-ID: <1020214211637.19306C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  , On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Robert Deininger wrote:  5 > In article <quYEeCt$bHdw@eisner.encompasserve.org>,>. > kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) wrote: > # > >Alpha VMS V7.3, DECnet Phase IV.  > >0C > >I've been scratching my head about this one, and haven't figured @ > >out what I'm doing wrong.  I'm trying to set up proxies on my. > >home machines so that if on nodeb I type... > >d > >$ dir nodea::disk:[dir]   > >oB > >without the username and password string, it will work.  In theB > >old days of netproxy.dat it was a simple matter to put a proxy ? > >record in authorize, maybe do a mc ncp set known prox all totD > >reset the DECnet db, and check for old netserver network links to> > >make sure the request wasn't being satisfied by an existingD > >process.  Without the explicit username/password in the command I" > >get the fal$server directory.   > >1= > >Now with net$proxy.dat which authorize uses, but DECnet IV @ > >doesn't seem to, I have an entry for *::myusername myusername= > >(D).  This used to be enough so that any node could access A > >myusername as long as the originating username was myusername.- > : > Authorize maintains both netproxy.dat and net$proxy.dat. >  > UAF> SHOW/PROXY/OLDjJ > will show you the stuff in netproxy.dat.  Occasionally the two files get > de-synchronized. > I > And a server process needs to be running, or proxies won't work.  Is itgK > the audit server, or the security server.  I'm always getting those mixedw > up...   C Not sure about this, but I think AUTHORIZE only maintains the proxy D file(s) that exist.  I also think by default only net$proxy.dat getsG cteated on a new installation.  I'm not sure how to create netproxy.datsE if it doesn't exist... I think maybe you have to delete net$proxy.datmC and then do a create/proxy (which should create both of them), thena  re-populate them with authorize.     -- g John Santosm Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:47:27 -0700S$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca>3 Subject: VMS lexical F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")a) Message-ID: <3C6C225F.F9BE097D@cha.ab.ca>M  G I have coded this lexical in a procedure running on AS1200's to warn me G when the internal temperature of a machine exceeds a certain threshold.RH This was under VMS 7.1-2.  We applied 13 patches yesterday to one of the? 7.1-2 nodes and after the reboot, this lexical no longer works.nG (Incidentally, we asked for an autoreboot, which failed.  I suspect one E of the patches forced us to re-enter the date/time at the console.  AtA subsequent autoreboot removed this problem.)  I realize that thisdH lexical is unsupported, but is there an alternate parameter for F$GETSYI to give me the same info?   8 Before the patches, 1D (29 degree Celsius) was returned.  6 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")'"  FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1D  8 After the patches, FF (255 degrees Celsius) is returned.6 $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")'"  FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF   -- Leeo  ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authority ? Email: lytmah@cha.ab.ca            Information Systems, RAH CSCR4 Phone:  (780) 477-4725, 477-4233   10240 Kingsway NW? Fax:      (780) 491-5119, 491-5619    Edmonton, AB, CAN  T5H3V9b   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:38 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u7 Subject: Re: VMS lexical F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")t- Message-ID: <14FEB200223382716@gerg.tamu.edu>e  ( Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes...H }I have coded this lexical in a procedure running on AS1200's to warn meH }when the internal temperature of a machine exceeds a certain threshold.I }This was under VMS 7.1-2.  We applied 13 patches yesterday to one of thet@ }7.1-2 nodes and after the reboot, this lexical no longer works.H }(Incidentally, we asked for an autoreboot, which failed.  I suspect oneF }of the patches forced us to re-enter the date/time at the console.  AB }subsequent autoreboot removed this problem.)  I realize that thisI }lexical is unsupported, but is there an alternate parameter for F$GETSYIe }to give me the same info? } 9 }Before the patches, 1D (29 degree Celsius) was returned.V } 7 }$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")'" ! }FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1D  } 9 }After the patches, FF (255 degrees Celsius) is returned. 7 }$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "''F$GETSYI("TEMPERATURE_VECTOR")'"s! }FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFt }  }--t }Lee  ? The value "FF" isn't actually a literal "255", it is the statusmB code for SYI$K_ENV_STATUS_NOT_PRESENT, i.e. it is telling you that< it doesn't know what the value is because it isn't being set by the driver.   Try entering this:  9 $ If ((F$GETSYI("CRD_CONTROL") .AND. %X20) .NE. 0) Then -l   Write Sys$Output "Good"9  1 This will either respond with "Good" or it won't.u  D What this is doing is checking to see if bit 5 of EXE$GL_CRD_CONTROLA is set - this bit should be set during bootstartp by systems that C support environmental monitoring. If this bit is set, the SMHANDLERe; should start during a normal system boot (it is started viam@ SYS$STARTUP:SYS$SMHANDLER_STARTUP.COM, which checks this bit: if? the bit is set it will start the SMHANDLER, if it isn't then itaA won't start it). The SMHANDLER is what actually communicates withr5 the sensors via a device called SMA0 to get the data.a+ If it isn't running you won't get anything.j  E If the SMHANDLER is running, there should be a process on your systemo? called, not too surprisingly, SMHANDLER. There should also be ao device called SMA0.   D If the above says "Good", then it should be possible to make it workJ again. It *should* just work. Since it doesn't, I would have to guess thatB SYS$STARTUP:SYS$SMHANDLER_STARTUP.COM is not being run even thoughA it should be. Check for any modifications of the system startup -t@ this file is normally run from SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and2 should have section in there that looks like this:  L $! On OpenVMS Alpha systems only, start the SMHANDLER driver and process forJ $! systems with environmental monitoring capabilities.  If you do NOT wantK $! to start the SMHANDLER driver and process, add a ($!) comment delimiter.m $!I $ IF ARCH_NAME .EQS. "Alpha" THEN $@SYS$STARTUP:SYS$SMHANDLER_STARTUP.COM1  C If this is still in there but the SMHANDLER process is not running,uC try manually starting it via @SYS$STARTUP:SYS$SMHANDLER_STARTUP.COM  to see what happens.  D If the above did not say "Good", then bit 5 of EXE$GL_CRD_CONTROL isH not being set during bootstrap. This would indicate a change in the bootG code for your system. There isn't much you can do about this other thansH to talk to Compaq and VMS engineering about it to find out what happened to it.  D Well, there is another possibility. It is possible that it was neverC actually returing valid information (no sensors, or an inability toc> actually talk to them, or returing invalid information insteadC of the "no such thing" flag when SMHANDLER isn't running) which was > fixed by the patch to make it correctly indicate that it isn'tD working. I don't know if an AS1200 is supposed to be able to do this or not.    --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:25:05 -0500t* From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <nospan@nospam.com>Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of  another chii/ Message-ID: <UVWa8.58$YS1.639@news.cpqcorp.net>p  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C6A99D3.3A47B2C0@videotron.ca...  C > When Intel decides that IA64 doesn't have a high volume future...h  L If fact, Intel has already said that IA64 is not for high volumes!  Think of> IA-64 as an eventual replacement for low-volume Xeon x86 CPUs.  I Here is a good article that explains the difference between IA-64, Hammer  and Yamhill.  5 http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1584&p=13i     Paul A. Jacobi Compaq Computer Corporations! OpenVMS Systems Group, ZKO3-4/U14u 110 Spitbrook Road Nashua, NH 03062-2698a Email: Paul.Jacobi@compaq.com    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Feb 2002 01:34:52 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>Y Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chip-0 Message-ID: <87zo2cnf0j.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  D > Plenty of time to arrange to buy the masks and get someone else toE > fab it.  A lot of NSK customers would probably prefer to stick with = > the current hardware than run the risks of a migration to a3" > newly-developed platform anyway.  D The are a string of MIPS fabbers, so adding the 14K/16K to their mix should not be too huge an ask.  G Anyone else notice the irony that much of the delay of EV7 was put down.G to the lock-step stuff added to it, that will not be used, and that NSK2: is going to be on the MIPS 14K/16K 'post death' designs...   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.C@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:01:32 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>EY Subject: Re: What happens to the VMS Port if Intel drops Itanium in favor of another chipz, Message-ID: <3C6C41C8.3968720E@videotron.ca>   "Paul A. Jacobi" wrote:rN > If fact, Intel has already said that IA64 is not for high volumes!  Think of@ > IA-64 as an eventual replacement for low-volume Xeon x86 CPUs.7 > http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1584&p=13S  H if HP felt compelled to force Compaq to kill Alpha and commit to IA64 soN quickly, at a time when Intel was admitting that IA64 was to be relegated to aN niche, then perhaps it was because HP was desperate to save IA64 and needed to# put some momentum to save its chip..  M After all, until June 25, HP was the only one to have bet the farm on IA64 soeK it was to its own advantage to help Intel widen IA64's market to prevent itiN from becoming another Alpha (except that at least Alpha had performance on its& side, something wich IA64 won't have).  K What is interesting though is that the very systems that fit the IA64 nicheTM are the ones which Carly conveninetly forgets to mention when she talks abouty: industry standard future of HP without proprietary systems  M It is a shame for VMS and Alpha, but I at least hope that business books willaJ recall the failures of Digital,  Compaq and later on HP's that were due toS ignoring their profitable serious products and focusing on other people's products.D   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 12:40:01 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141240.7926a6bf@posting.google.com>f  Z "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message news:<%mPa8.19$YS1.86@news.cpqcorp.net>.../ > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote ina > > TCPware for VMS ...d > A > May be, but unless you give real data, I will  not believe you.-D > Anyway Tcpip V5.1 eco 3, and to come soon Tcpip 5.3 is quite good. > G > As you often say Purveyor is the best Web server for Vms, and as I amrC > convinced that Wasd is better (and free, and with a great doc)...EN > Have you read the document cited in the message of  Jean-Francois Pironne ? > 	 > Regards  >  > Grard  C I know all about wasd ... however it is not a production web server  likeD purveyor ... purveyor was used in production by digital, and it also hasaE a production proxy server that was used by alta vista ... we will not, stakeiF our web site on "sharewhare" unless forced to, as we tried that w/csws andfE had our site going down on broken pipes ... we have used purveyor foro 2 yrs>F now w/o "1" single problem!  vt sessions in html browser is coming for vms=E from ericom by summer and will be production!  this is on their site!   / WASD VMS Hypertext Services ... read this first>  
 DisclaimerD As High Frequency Radar Division* currently employs some useful (and@ in that sense valuable) freeware and public-domain software, itsD management has consented, in the spirit of wishing to "pay its dues"@ and encourage this environment, to make some of its own, locallyD implemented hypertext services software available to the broader VMS
 community.  F The Division recognises that although having no commercial value, thisE software can never-the-less be valuable to other sites because of itso> low cost (usually media only) and in that it may address niche< requirements not viable for commercial vendors. It should beD emphasized that this is not a commercial-grade package, has not beenD designed with that in mind, should not be recognised as such, nor is= it in any way endorsed by High Frequency Radar Divison or itsu Management.   ;   *Now Surveillance Systems Division, before that Wide Area. Surveillance Division.  " Dr. Malcolm G. Golley CHFRD, 1996   F also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable length filesm2 automatically ... stream lf is just an option ...   < 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file is? attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file tot
 STREAM-LF.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 12:47:46 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141247.4474805f@posting.google.com>3  Z "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> wrote in message news:<%mPa8.19$YS1.86@news.cpqcorp.net>.../ > "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in0 > > TCPware for VMS ...e > A > May be, but unless you give real data, I will  not believe you. D > Anyway Tcpip V5.1 eco 3, and to come soon Tcpip 5.3 is quite good. > G > As you often say Purveyor is the best Web server for Vms, and as I am C > convinced that Wasd is better (and free, and with a great doc)...nN > Have you read the document cited in the message of  Jean-Francois Pironne ? > 	 > Regards  >  > Grard  L and second, you have that windoze/unix/linux mentality that "wants somethingJ for nothing"!  and what you end up getting is garbage linux "c" sharewhareI (i.e. apache) that is full of bugs and errors and "problems"!  if you and I other vms users would realize that the best things in life are not alwaysuJ free, vms apps available would be alot more than what they are now, just aM bunch of sharewhare, ported "c" unix/linux windoze garbage!  purveyor howeveriL stands out from the rest, and yes we will pay that measly $900 for a product that is as reliable as vms ...   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 05:47:39 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202140547.3ee22dbc@posting.google.com>>  k Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<3C6B16BB.1CD3410F@firstdbasource.com>... J > The problem with NFS-based solutions is that you MUST pay for additionalJ > licenses for EACH workstation. Last time I checked NFS was not a part of# > any of the Wxxxxx licenses or OS.l > C > The VMS package will depend entirely on which TCPIP stack you are J > using.  I have used Multinet and UCX.  The UCX (TCPIP Services) team hasJ > done a very good job in addressing any issues WRT the type of data being3 > transferred (sequential, indexed, binary etc...)   > B > I have used SAMBA in production for more than 6 years on variousA > versions of OpenVMS (VAX, Alpha, and Linux,Solaris,etc) with noa
 > problems.  u > --  
 > Regards, > 9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163 9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comt% > Sr. Consultant  -- still available.c >  >  > Mike Scott wrote:p > > M > > I'm looking for opinions on what the best NFS package for OpenVMS 7.x is./I > > By 'best', I mean best performing and most stable.  I wish to have an1I > > OpenVMS file server that hosts data for both OpenVMS workstations andIP > > Windoze workstations (non-NT environment).  I'm hoping for a single solutionK > > for both types of clients.  Also, I've looked at Clustering and AdvancenN > > Server (Pathworks).  Specifically, I'd like to hear about NFS experiences. > > -with thanks.h   TCPware for VMS ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:10:27 +1030'/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>y6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <3C6C58FB.2030605@wasd.vsm.com.au>  B At the risk of sounding like an over-protective parent, the 3.0b5 F refered to here was that of VMS Netscape not WASD.  The full quote ...  A "This capability has only been tested against Netscape Navigator bG versions 2 and 3. VMS Netscape Navigator 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a wH variable-record format file is attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, " or convert the file to STREAM-LF."  :    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0200.html#29  C It's a very old note and with a usable Mozilla on the horizon it's  E probably time for revision (although being free Bob probably will be tA sticking to Navigator Gold 3.03; hang-on, that was "free" too ;^)g   Bob Ceculski wrote:eH > also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable length > files/4 > automatically ... stream lf is just an option ...  > > > 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file isA > attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file to  > STREAM-LF.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 18:52:28 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141852.6f274f0e@posting.google.com>i  e Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<3C6C58FB.2030605@wasd.vsm.com.au>...dD > At the risk of sounding like an over-protective parent, the 3.0b5 H > refered to here was that of VMS Netscape not WASD.  The full quote ... > C > "This capability has only been tested against Netscape Navigator -I > versions 2 and 3. VMS Netscape Navigator 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a aJ > variable-record format file is attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, $ > or convert the file to STREAM-LF." > < >    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0200.html#29 > E > It's a very old note and with a usable Mozilla on the horizon it's nG > probably time for revision (although being free Bob probably will be tC > sticking to Navigator Gold 3.03; hang-on, that was "free" too ;^)r >  > Bob Ceculski wrote: J > > also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable length	 > > filese6 > > automatically ... stream lf is just an option ...  > > @ > > 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file isC > > attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file tos > > STREAM-LF.  B what about the disclaimer?  is this a production webserver or not?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:18:59 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202141918.7275a871@posting.google.com>-  e Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<3C6C58FB.2030605@wasd.vsm.com.au>... D > At the risk of sounding like an over-protective parent, the 3.0b5 H > refered to here was that of VMS Netscape not WASD.  The full quote ... > C > "This capability has only been tested against Netscape Navigator  I > versions 2 and 3. VMS Netscape Navigator 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a (J > variable-record format file is attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, $ > or convert the file to STREAM-LF." > < >    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0200.html#29 > E > It's a very old note and with a usable Mozilla on the horizon it's eG > probably time for revision (although being free Bob probably will be eC > sticking to Navigator Gold 3.03; hang-on, that was "free" too ;^)o >  > Bob Ceculski wrote:kJ > > also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable length	 > > filese6 > > automatically ... stream lf is just an option ...  > > @ > > 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file isC > > attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file toa > > STREAM-LF.  M there is nothing wrong w/free, but if it is not production quality, what good I is it?  we tried free ... csws as I mentioned above wasted several months K of our time, and osu, sure it had a proxy server, but then read in the docsTM that it was not production quality as we found out, and stated "proxy servers H are tricky to write" ... can you guarantee we will not run into the same problems w/wasd?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:02:27 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?8 Message-ID: <00A0991A.FD3E6005@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0202141852.6f274f0e@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:f >Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<3C6C58FB.2030605@wasd.vsm.com.au>...E >> At the risk of sounding like an over-protective parent, the 3.0b5 oI >> refered to here was that of VMS Netscape not WASD.  The full quote ...  >> bD >> "This capability has only been tested against Netscape Navigator J >> versions 2 and 3. VMS Netscape Navigator 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a K >> variable-record format file is attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, o% >> or convert the file to STREAM-LF."i >> n= >>    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0200.html#29  >> iF >> It's a very old note and with a usable Mozilla on the horizon it's H >> probably time for revision (although being free Bob probably will be D >> sticking to Navigator Gold 3.03; hang-on, that was "free" too ;^) >> R >> Bob Ceculski wrote:K >> > also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable length 
 >> > files7 >> > automatically ... stream lf is just an option ... S >> > PA >> > 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file is D >> > attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file to >> > STREAM-LF.s >tC >what about the disclaimer?  is this a production webserver or not?t  J Can you define "a production webserver"?  Also, can you give any reason onJ earth why, regardless of the quality (quite high, as far as I can tell) ofL WASD, Mark should assume any vague possibility of liability for saying it's L a production webserver, when he doesn't get any income with which to pay theL liability?  And why should his employers risk any little bit of liability by
 saying so?   -- Alans    O ===============================================================================h0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056rM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210aO ===============================================================================i   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:04:42 GMTRL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?8 Message-ID: <00A0991B.4DCEA3F4@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  h In article <d7791aa1.0202141918.7275a871@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:f >Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message news:<3C6C58FB.2030605@wasd.vsm.com.au>...E >> At the risk of sounding like an over-protective parent, the 3.0b5 @I >> refered to here was that of VMS Netscape not WASD.  The full quote ...  >> ID >> "This capability has only been tested against Netscape Navigator J >> versions 2 and 3. VMS Netscape Navigator 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a K >> variable-record format file is attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, a% >> or convert the file to STREAM-LF."w >> A= >>    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0200.html#29d >> mF >> It's a very old note and with a usable Mozilla on the horizon it's H >> probably time for revision (although being free Bob probably will be D >> sticking to Navigator Gold 3.03; hang-on, that was "free" too ;^) >> 5 >> Bob Ceculski wrote:K >> > also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable lengtht
 >> > files7 >> > automatically ... stream lf is just an option ... - >> > zA >> > 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file is.D >> > attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file to >> > STREAM-LF.  > N >there is nothing wrong w/free, but if it is not production quality, what goodJ >is it?  we tried free ... csws as I mentioned above wasted several monthsL >of our time, and osu, sure it had a proxy server, but then read in the docsN >that it was not production quality as we found out, and stated "proxy serversI >are tricky to write" ... can you guarantee we will not run into the samel >problems w/wasd?t  M CSWS may or may not be a production webserver, since that's not well-defined,lM but it is supported by Compaq and under active development.  If Purveyor does N everything you need, great, but don't expect people who are happily using WASDL or OSU or CSWS to stop doing that, to stop recommending the servers they're K happy with, or to accept your assertions that Purveyor is the only good VMS-	 server.  -   -- Alana      O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056nM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210sO ===============================================================================m   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:43:31 +1030 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>p6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <3C6C98FB.6050605@wasd.vsm.com.au>   Bob Ceculski wrote:tO > there is nothing wrong w/free, but if it is not production quality, what goodvK > is it?  we tried free ... csws as I mentioned above wasted several months M > of our time, and osu, sure it had a proxy server, but then read in the docs O > that it was not production quality as we found out, and stated "proxy serversrJ > are tricky to write" ... can you guarantee we will not run into the same > problems w/wasd?   Why would I want to Bob?   I'm not a salesperson.  I My commission on each site is so close to zero as to be zero (I've had a dD rigorous proof of this prepared by one of the mathematicians in our - group - though I had had a hunch beforehand).o  D I can't remember the last time I was flown across country (even) to I present a session on the pros-and-cons intergrating your E-Business with h WASD.l  1 'Bout the only thing I get out of it is red eyes.a  E If you use it and it find it useful and convey that back then that's  I pretty much all a freeware author seems to need (apart from the fame and aH groupies of course).  Might be a very interesting thesis for some psych E post-grad to prepare a profile of freeware authors and infer from it CH what makes them tick.  On the other hand it might be so very obvious to - everyone but freeware authors (or only me ;^)n  E On a related theme; when does something become "production quality"? s? One crash, two crashes, one bug, two bugs, one limitation, two vF limitations?  More or less than this doesn't really matter 'cause I'm & going to refer to this site anyway ...  1    http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:16:29 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>v6 Subject: RE: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1CAF@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Alan,   F Just to add weight to the case that Apache on OpenVMS is getting to be6 very serious stuff, check out the recent enhancements:  C http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/csws.html   F CSWS 1.2 is based on Apache 1.3.20, mod_ssl 2.8.4, and OpenSSL 0.9.5a.  
 New Features:    - Apache 1.3.20 code baserH - Cluster-wide SSL session caches: shared-memory for Galaxy clusters and" file-based for non-Galaxy clusters - mod_proxy (built-in) - mod_rewrite (built-in)  H The cluster stuff is pretty cool when compared to similar Apache configsE on other OS's ie. apache$specific and apache$common directories means E that with 10 Apache server front ends, for a file that is common, youbF only need to make a change once in apache$common. It uses RMS files asD well, so that means all servers have full read-write access directlyG from all servers in the cluster (no served access). And as stated abovemF with Galaxy configs SSL session cache data can either be stored in RMSH files or Galaxy shared memory with dynamic CPU load balancing between OS
 instances.  C And of course not being susceptible to the 32bit server virus's and F hacker stuff goes without saying  - as is also the case with other Web servers on OpenVMS..   :-)i   Regardse  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantv Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"a' [mailto:winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]   Sent: February 14, 2002 11:05 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?    = In article <d7791aa1.0202141918.7275a871@posting.google.com>,c* bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:; >Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> wrote in message@* news:<3C6C58FB.2030605@wasd.vsm.com.au>...G >> At the risk of sounding like an over-protective parent, the 3.0b5=20 E >> refered to here was that of VMS Netscape not WASD.  The full quotee .. >>=20 F >> "This capability has only been tested against Netscape Navigator=20G >> versions 2 and 3. VMS Netscape Navigator 3.0b5 hangs if an upload ofo a=20C >> variable-record format file is attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or 	 fixed,=20s% >> or convert the file to STREAM-LF.") >>=20 = >>    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0200.html#29i >>=20nH >> It's a very old note and with a usable Mozilla on the horizon it's=20J >> probably time for revision (although being free Bob probably will be=20D >> sticking to Navigator Gold 3.03; hang-on, that was "free" too ;^) >>=20a >> Bob Ceculski wrote:D >> > also found this in their site ... purveyor handles rms variable length
 >> > files9 >> > automatically ... stream lf is just an option ...=20y >> >=20 A >> > 3.0b5 hangs if an upload of a variable-record format file is D >> > attempted.  Stick to STREAM-LF or fixed, or convert the file to >> > STREAM-LF.a >oD >there is nothing wrong w/free, but if it is not production quality,	 what good4C >is it?  we tried free ... csws as I mentioned above wasted severalu monthsG >of our time, and osu, sure it had a proxy server, but then read in the4 docsF >that it was not production quality as we found out, and stated "proxy servers D >are tricky to write" ... can you guarantee we will not run into the same >problems w/wasd?o  ? CSWS may or may not be a production webserver, since that's nott
 well-defined,IH but it is supported by Compaq and under active development.  If Purveyor doesC everything you need, great, but don't expect people who are happilyn
 using WASDC or OSU or CSWS to stop doing that, to stop recommending the serversr
 they're=20G happy with, or to accept your assertions that Purveyor is the only goodt VMSi server. =20y   -- Alan       L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=B =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Do0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU?  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056A  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CAs
 94309-0210L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=B =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:10:09 +1030k/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>e6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <3C6C9129.6010801@wasd.vsm.com.au>  I At the risk of further cluttering this newsgroup with more of what could uB be construed as non-core discussion ... it's obvious you've never I attempted to get a (.au) government department to cede copyright on even o- the smallest jot or tittle of prospective IP.   # Note that the refered-to document'sl  7    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/misc/read1st.html   E emphasis is on commerce, that is money-making ("having no commercial sD value") and that the Division Executive are not promoting it in any E fashion ("in any way endorsed by High Frequency Radar Divison or its :G Management.")  The 'division' here is a research and development group eC comprising scientists and engineers, not competing in or promoting e non-core interests.g  H The other main thread of this document is 'there is no remuneration for F the author(s) so you have no claim if it doesn't perform as expected'.  C And while I'm playing the apologist; further to WASD's genesis and l raison d'etre, a quote fromt  7    http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/doc/htd/htd_0100.htmlr  I "The primary impetus for an internal Web environment was a 1993 decision iE by Division management to make as much information as possible, both 2F administrative and research, internally available on-line (to use the D current term ... an intranet).  Early experimentation with a Gopher H implementation soon made way for the obvious advantages of the emerging  Web technology.n  H It then became the objective of this author to make all of our systems' E VMS-related resources available via HTTP and HTML, regardless of the hG underlying data or storage format.  An examination of the WASD package h9 will show that this objective is substantially achieved."s  H As to its value for the "real-world"; this would be better addressed by   those that use it in production.   Bob Ceculski wrote:fD > what about the disclaimer?  is this a production webserver or not?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:54:46 +0000t/ From: Tony  Barker <tony@dartfactordata.ltd.uk>b Subject: XP 1000 won't booth6 Message-ID: <B891C685.8CFB%tony@dartfactordata.ltd.uk>  0 I have a XP 1000 workstation running ovms V7.2-1I It has been up and running for several months - including several rebootsnK but this morning following a shutdown (@sys$system:shutdown) the system now K fails to restart.  Just after the boot starts - it announces ovms starting,tJ then performs a crash dump, displays the message "inconsistent boot driver+ state" and then reboots again, and again...eH Can anyone please tell me ehat's wrong and how I can go about fixing it?   thanks   Tony   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:54:43 GMTR1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>g Subject: Re: XP 1000 won't boot71 Message-ID: <3C6C16F9.B18F5EC@clarityconnect.com>w  G We need more information.  It should display more info as to the reason H for this failure in a SYSBOOT message.  ALso from the register dump what is R0?   Tony Barker wrote: > 2 > I have a XP 1000 workstation running ovms V7.2-1K > It has been up and running for several months - including several reboots3M > but this morning following a shutdown (@sys$system:shutdown) the system nowmM > fails to restart.  Just after the boot starts - it announces ovms starting,SL > then performs a crash dump, displays the message "inconsistent boot driver- > state" and then reboots again, and again...zJ > Can anyone please tell me ehat's wrong and how I can go about fixing it? >  > thanks >  > Tony   -- iD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:39:47 +0100 + From: Peter Finderup Lund <firefly@diku.dk>AY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise      of      ctD Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0202141934420.24611-100000@ask.diku.dk>  7 On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:t  D > I know the Danish also sing their language, but I don't think it's > critical that they do.  F No we don't.  At least not in general - only a few  dialects are a bitH like that.  None of them have "musical accent" (is that what it's called? in English?) like Chinese or ancient Greeek to some extent had.M  H Danish is infamous among the Scandinavian tongues for /not/ having a lotB of melody (only very few tones are used and they are quite close).  $ Maybe you are thinking of Norwegian?  I -Peter (I've forgotten most of the linguistics I used to know but some ofo" it is coming back slowly, I think)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:49:39 -0000C5 From: "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>nY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comp. Message-ID: <a4hbb7$qda$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  D "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dougq@ixnayamspayiglou.com> wrote in message! news:3c697dc1_3@news.iglou.com....1 > <greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk> wrote in messager0 > news:3c735ee7.63714673@news.btopenworld.com... > > J > > Scots, some of them claim, is actually a separate language rather thanG > > a dialect of English. It does have a lot of unique words for commonaF > > things, and a different grammar. But so do most accents in the UK.H > > There's loads of fabulous dialect words from all over the place thatI > > have fallen out of use, and loads more that haven't and could be used  > > to confuse Americans with. >o) > 'Struth... Scots is a lowland language.  >>? > My Quebbeman ancestors spoke Plattdeutsch, or Low german. For>D > a while, I subscribed to a Lowlands Languages list. One researcherB > related a conversation he witnessed between three truck drivers,C > one Dutch, one German, and one Scot, and they each spoke in theireC > own respective languages but had complete and total understandinga > of each other. >   H Sometime in the 80's, there was a series on BBC Scotland about the ScotsI language. It was called "Scots: The Mither Tongue" and was presented by aiH guy called Billy Kay. He also wrote a book of the same title, and in theL first chapter of the book he relates an interesting anecdote about Scots and German:   F       "Old John Murray was Provost of Galston and a great friend to meH     as a child. He used to say that the soldiers that had come back fromF     the Great War maintained that the Germans could understand them ifH     they spoke broad Scots. When on the first day of learning German theF     school reader sad 'Die Tochter milchte die Kuh', I recalled John'sF     words and translated with ease: the dochter milkit the coo!" [=the     daughter milked the cow]  I Senn I gaed tae Germany, I micht mak minesel' kent, but nae guid, like ;)gI Problem is that you'd have to stretch the pronunciation a bit... and very H few Scots speakers know enough of the Scots/German common (or, at least,K close) words because they've been replaced by English words or have evolved: away from the common root.  J Last time I quoted the 'daughter milking the cow' example to a German, sheK took a while to get it and I had to slur the pronunciation a bit... but shefG thought it was a neat example once she got it! She said it sounded likeI Dutch...  J Bill Bryson also mentions in one of his books that, near the German/DanishG border (Angeln?) there is a German dialect that is eerily English (thise beingr where the Angles came from):     "Wie ist the weather?"     "The weather ist good"I etc (I can't remember more and can't be bothered going to find the book).2   Some Scots/German comparisons:  *     Scots          German          English*     tae mak        machen          to make+     dochter        Tochter         daughtero(     hardneckit     hartnaeckig       ???&     wha            Wie             Who(     tae gae        gehen           to go)     I gang         Ich gange       I went>     -- Malcolm MacArthur.  ' "Senn word is thrall and thocht be freez,  Keip weill thy tongue I counseill thee" [*], Subtract nine for e-mail (anti-spam measure)  / [*] "Jura jbeqf ner ovaqvat naq gubhtug vf serr>5      Xrrc jryy lbhe fvyrapr, V pbhafry lbh" (16gu p.)fD     (be ng yrnfg, gung'f gur orfg nggrzcg V pna qb ng n genafyngvba)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:35:41 +0000 / From: cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com ) Message-ID: <t3eh4a.j02.ln@teabag.cbhnet>   ; According to Malcolm <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>:e7 >     Scots          German          English    Geordie 6 >     tae mak        machen          to make    te mekC >     dochter        Tochter         daughter   wor lass (or bairn)p2 >     hardneckit     hartnaeckig       ???      ??3 >     wha            Wie             Who        whey6 >     tae gae        gehen           to go      te gan9 >     I gang         Ich gange       I went     ah ganned=   Chris.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:30:22 GMT7 From: visser@ph.tn.tudelft.nl (Boudewijn W. Ch. Visser)lY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com:- Message-ID: <slrna6olku.264.visser@x86.local>   X On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:49:39 -0000, Malcolm <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:   [..] >    "Wie ist the weather?"  >    "The weather ist good"3J >etc (I can't remember more and can't be bothered going to find the book). >  >Some Scots/German comparisons:M > + >    Scots          German          English>+ >    tae mak        machen          to makew, >    dochter        Tochter         daughter) >    hardneckit     hartnaeckig       ??? ' >    wha            Wie             Whom) >    tae gae        gehen           to go * >    I gang         Ich gange       I went   Dutch is close too :   Dutch    makenf dochter 
 hardnekkig wie  gaan Ik ging     ] hardnekkig ('stiff-necked',literally) can be translated with obstinate, persistent, stubborn.l  8 German 'Wie' can mean 'how', or 'like' , but not 'who'.   I (See the weather sentence : Wie ist dat Wetter ? - How is the weather ? )o< English 'who' would be 'Wer' in German. (and wie in Dutch).   7 English 'How' is 'Hoe' in Dutch. (and 'Wie' in German).t  	 BoudewijnI   -- o@ +--------------------------------------------------------------+@ |Boudewijn Visser        | E-mail:visser@ph.tn.tudelft.nl      |@ | -                    - | http:                               |@ +-- my own opinions etc ---------------------------------------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:53:18 +0000 , From: Peter Boyle <pboyle@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise   of      compeH Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202142350320.28542-100000@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>   Offhand,  ( On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Chris Hedley wrote:  = > According to Malcolm <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>:o9 > >     Scots          German          English    Geordiei  -         kirk           kirchen         Churchr+         ken            kennen          knoww+         cauld          kalt            coldo   Petern  8 > >     tae mak        machen          to make    te mekE > >     dochter        Tochter         daughter   wor lass (or bairn)j4 > >     hardneckit     hartnaeckig       ???      ??5 > >     wha            Wie             Who        whee8 > >     tae gae        gehen           to go      te gan; > >     I gang         Ich gange       I went     ah gannedr >s > Chris. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:59:11 +0100c3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com>hY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of      compaqr, Message-ID: <3C6C251F.8C97D74@hda.hydro.com>   Peter Finderup Lund wrote: > 9 > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:o > F > > I know the Danish also sing their language, but I don't think it's > > critical that they do. > H > No we don't.  At least not in general - only a few  dialects are a bitJ > like that.  None of them have "musical accent" (is that what it's calledA > in English?) like Chinese or ancient Greeek to some extent had.a > J > Danish is infamous among the Scandinavian tongues for /not/ having a lotD > of melody (only very few tones are used and they are quite close).  F Indeed. All Danes speak as if they have a potato in their mouth, or at9 least this is what it sounds like to most Norwegians. :-)n > & > Maybe you are thinking of Norwegian?  H Possibly some west coast or northern dialect then, 'Bokml' is too close
 to Danish.   Terjeh   --    - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:53:48 -0800r+ From: "Brad Houser" <brad.houser@intel.com>-( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...* Message-ID: <a4h84t$c3g@news.or.intel.com>  / <greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk> wrote in messageV/ news:3cadbdc2.481237459@news.btopenworld.com...F  A > A couple of weeks ago I asked my mate's Spanish housemate, whatpG > exactly are they singing about in Mas Que Nada? He doesn't know, it'sa > in Portuguese. Oh! >m: > I knew the Brazilians spoke Portuguese actually, duh me!  * The words have to do with doing the Samba:  L Mas que nada sai da minha frente Eu quero passar Pois o samba est animado OJ que eu quero  sambar. Esse samba Que  misto de maracat  samba de pretoK velho Samba de preto t. Mas que nada Um samba como esse to legal Voc noi" vai querer que eu chegue no final.    ! Tranlated by FreeTranslation.com:   H But that nothing leaves from my front I want pass Therefore the samba isH lively what do I want is sambar. That samba That is mixed of maracat isJ samba of black old Samba of black you. But that nothing A samba as that so> lawful one You are not going to want that I arrive in the end. -- Brad Houseri <Not speaking for Intel>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:25:02 -0600k, From: John A. Stovall <stovall@our-town.com>( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...8 Message-ID: <o0ao6ugq6jhsnap59900rufp6168fjgoeb@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:17:46 +0000 (UTC), greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:  8 >On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:49:11 +0100, Peter Finderup Lund ><firefly@diku.dk> sprachen: >FK >>I've heard it said that French is the result of Gauls not learning proper L >>Latin... The Iberians learned it properly (and somewhat earlier), which isK >>why Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian are closer to each other (and Latin)i >>than to French.  >wC >I've wondered why Italian is close to Spanish, bearing in mind the E >countries inbetween. Was there a lot of emigration and trade via the  >sea?p  D Spain was a major Roman colony for hundred of years.  Spain has fiveE official languages,  Spanish, Basque, Galician, Gascon (Aranese), andcC Catalan with another 4 or 5 spoken languages. Basque is the odd man = out not having a Indo-European roots. The others were heavilySD influenced by Latin. So it's not unexpected that Italian and Spanish@ should be similar.  It's just one of the Romance languages which@ descended from Latin like, Catalan, French, Italian, Portuguese,; Occitan,  Rhaeto-Romanic, Romanian, and  of course Spanish.D5 *****************************************************3  6 "It just so happens we be Texicans. Texican is nothin'6 but a human man way out on a limb, this year and next.1 Maybe for a hundred more. But I don't think it'lli/ be forever. Some day, this country's gonna be aP fine good place to be."y  .                               "Mrs. Jorgensen"3                                from "The Searchers"=   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:17:46 +0000 (UTC)3" From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...5 Message-ID: <3cadbdc2.481237459@news.btopenworld.com>3  7 On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:49:11 +0100, Peter Finderup Lund0 <firefly@diku.dk> sprachen:k  J >I've heard it said that French is the result of Gauls not learning properK >Latin... The Iberians learned it properly (and somewhat earlier), which issJ >why Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian are closer to each other (and Latin) >than to French.  B I've wondered why Italian is close to Spanish, bearing in mind theD countries inbetween. Was there a lot of emigration and trade via the sea?  ? A couple of weeks ago I asked my mate's Spanish housemate, what:E exactly are they singing about in Mas Que Nada? He doesn't know, it'se in Portuguese. Oh!  8 I knew the Brazilians spoke Portuguese actually, duh me!  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  H if love is a drug, then, ideally, it's a healing, healthful drug... it's@ kind of like prozac is supposed to work (without the sexual side5 effects and long-term damage to the brain and psyche)s   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:45:41 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...+ Message-ID: <a4hb65$i11$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>D  * In article <a4h84t$c3g@news.or.intel.com>,.  "Brad Houser" <brad.houser@intel.com> writes: |> 0 |> rO |> Mas que nada sai da minha frente Eu quero passar Pois o samba est animado OyM |> que eu quero  sambar. Esse samba Que  misto de maracat  samba de pretoaN |> velho Samba de preto t. Mas que nada Um samba como esse to legal Voc no% |> vai querer que eu chegue no final.h |> p |>  $ |> Tranlated by FreeTranslation.com: |> sK |> But that nothing leaves from my front I want pass Therefore the samba iseK |> lively what do I want is sambar. That samba That is mixed of maracat is M |> samba of black old Samba of black you. But that nothing A samba as that soeA |> lawful one You are not going to want that I arrive in the end.s  ( Oh, well that makes perfect sense.   :-)  D Nice to see that the computer still offers no threat to professional translators.   bill   -- uJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:19:30 GMTw/ From: junkmail@moreira.mv.com (Alberto Moreira)d( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...) Message-ID: <3c6c432b.526757@news.mv.net>a  3 Also sprach "Brad Houser" <brad.houser@intel.com> :   0 ><greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message0 >news:3cadbdc2.481237459@news.btopenworld.com... >aB >> A couple of weeks ago I asked my mate's Spanish housemate, whatH >> exactly are they singing about in Mas Que Nada? He doesn't know, it's >> in Portuguese. Oh!h >>; >> I knew the Brazilians spoke Portuguese actually, duh me!e >0+ >The words have to do with doing the Samba:l >lM >Mas que nada sai da minha frente Eu quero passar Pois o samba est animado OFK >que eu quero  sambar. Esse samba Que  misto de maracat  samba de preto L >velho Samba de preto t. Mas que nada Um samba como esse to legal Voc no# >vai querer que eu chegue no final.r >  >t" >Tranlated by FreeTranslation.com: >rI >But that nothing leaves from my front I want pass Therefore the samba isdI >lively what do I want is sambar. That samba That is mixed of maracat issK >samba of black old Samba of black you. But that nothing A samba as that sot? >lawful one You are not going to want that I arrive in the end.s  0 Ah, the vernacular ! It's been many a year now.   @ Just a couple of things. "Legal" in those days was Rio slang forE "cool".  "Mas que nada", literally "but nothing",  means something in B the direction of "what do you know". "Preto velho" is an old blackB man, so it's "samba of the old black men".  The "tu" after "preto"E doesn't mean "you", but it's just a reiteration of the last syllable: F preto-to, pronounced preh-too-too in Rio accent where this comes from.D "Maracatu" is a rhythm from the Brazilian northeast, which is pretty diverse from the Rio samba. So,r  F "What do you know, get out of my way, I want to get through. The sambaB is lively, I want to dance. That samba is sort of a half maracatu,F it's the samba of old black men, it's the samba of the black man. WhatD do you know, such a cool samba, you'll not want to see me getting to the end of it. "  < This was pretty popular in Rio when I was a teenager there.        Alberto.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:31:53 +0200c2 From: jmcalvez@club-internet.fr (Jean-Marc Calvez)( Subject: Re: [off-topic] eighty et al...? Message-ID: <1f7m0j8.1n4q0ih1xiwbg7N%jmcalvez@club-internet.fr>a  0 Ernest Cline <ernestcline@mindspring.com> wrote:  : > "Peter Finderup Lund" <firefly@diku.dk> wrote in message? > news:Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0202122143360.2022-100000@ask.diku.dk...-' > > The real question is why mainstream L > > French acquired their silly quatrevingt and counting without carry (96 = > > 4*20 + 16).Y > >rM > > I've heard it said that French is the result of Gauls not learning proper-N > > Latin... The Iberians learned it properly (and somewhat earlier), which isM > > why Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian are closer to each other (and Latin)@ > > than to French.w > 9 > As a guess, I would hazard that counting by twenties is.: > Germanic in origin. After all, the Franks were Germanic.; > There is a slight remanant of this in English, such as ina8 > the number 87 as it was used in the Gettysburg Address& > (Four score and seven years ago ...)  G According to my copy of G. Ifrah's "Histoire Universelle des Chiffres",lB it is a remnant of the pre-Indo-European population of Europe, whoF apparently used a base-20 system. Also still exist, to some extant, in4 Celtic people (he quotes Bretons, Gaelic and Irish).  E BTW, the same reference to Lincoln's address is there, along to a feww Shakespearian quotes.n  F And, as far as the French are concerned, we used to use more multiples@ of 20 in the past ("trois-vingts" for 60, "six-vingts" for 120,    "sept-vingts" for 140).e   Regardsb -- d+ Jean-Marc Calvez, jmcalvez@club-internet.fr  Grenoble, France   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.089 ************************