0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 18 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 96      Contents: Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows" - Re: Any lib$ -routine to move big datablocks?  Re: Backup query. 6 Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q): Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q) Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL  booting a VXT 1300 over TFTP  Re: booting a VXT 1300 over TFTP Re: Clustering article in DRJ  Clustering article in DRJ  Re: Clustering article in DRJ . Re: Clustering article in DRJ - attn Rob Lyons. Re: Clustering article in DRJ - attn Rob Lyons Re: Couple of Questions  Re: CXX install problem  Re: CXX install problem ) DECTPU: Inconsistant language behaviour ? 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift. ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?  Hobbyist - Layered Products  Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products  Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products  Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products + Re: How to become a Hobbyist (the hard way) + Re: How to become a Hobbyist (the hard way) + Re: How to become a Hobbyist (the hard way)  Re: Installing a DSSI drive  Re: Itanium troubles8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime( MAILERRORS.COM (was Re: DCL procedure's) Re: Mount disk at startup? Re: Mount disk at startup? Mozilla 0.98 & printing  Re: Mozilla 0.98 & printing  Network Printer problems Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???  Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???  Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???  Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???  Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1 Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1 Re: PPP for TCPIP on VAX ? Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ  Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ ) Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy ) Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy ) Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy ) Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy & Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote boot& Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote boot1 VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ) 5 Re: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ) 5 Re: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ) P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compaP Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars   (was P Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was ReP Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was ReP [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was Re: "C  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:36:45 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"A Message-ID: <hH5c8.90317$eS3.7136496@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net...  > Robert Deininger wrote:  > > ? > > In article <3C6DDC29.52674F54@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" " > > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > > G > > >As to pollution, e-mail me privately (anyone!) and I'll share some J > > >long-lost research (*NOT* mine! let me make that unmistakably clear!)G > > >with you. It's possible today, and it's been possible for going on K > > >twenty(20) years - without tons of batteries and without combustion of L > > >any kind. One of the necessary elements is radioactive (deuterium), the > > >other (gallium) is not. > > 9 > > Deuterium is not radioactive.  Not even a little bit.  > = > Well - I'll be - maybe that means no NRC approval. Hhmmm...   I Unfortunately, that doesn't help matters.  If the description you gave is K anywhere nearly accurate, file this marvel away in the 'crock' file next to * cold fusion and perpetual motion machines.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:46:14 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1802020746140001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   5 In article <3C70770E.93EA7BC3@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >"David J. Dachtera" wrote: K >> I'm told that Deuterium is readily available from sea water. Not being a - >> chemist, I am unfamiliar with the process.  > O >Is deurerium "heavy water" ? If so, there is a plant that produces/produced it H >about 150km east of Montteal at Bcancour (next to Qubec's token CanduN >nuclear plant which uses heavy water to control uranium reaction. Not sure if' >the plant is still operational though.   H Heavy water is D2O.  Regular water is H2O.  (Both of those 2's should beJ subscripts.  Shall I change the post to HTML?  :-)  In other words, if youH replace both hydrogen atoms in water with deuterium atoms, you get heavyD water.  If you replace just one H with D, you get HDO, which is alsoG "heavy water", but not as heavy as D2O.  Normal water out of the faucet  contains all three forms.   I The principal use of heavy water is as a neutron moderator in heavy-water J fission reactors.  That's why deuterium and deuterium-containing compounds) are controlled substances in most places.   D Natural hydrogen on Earth is about 0.015% deuterium.  Separating outH relatively pure deuterium is not terribly hard, but it requires a lot ofD electricity.  That's why large scale deuterium production is usually' powered by a hydroelectric power plant.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:46:06 -0500 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"K Message-ID: <rdeininger-1802020746060001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   ; In article <3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:   >Robert Deininger wrote: >>    8 >> Deuterium is not radioactive.  Not even a little bit. > < >Well - I'll be - maybe that means no NRC approval. Hhmmm...  C It's still a controlled substance, since heavy water is a wonderful F neutron moderator.  So it's a favorite for building nuclear reactors. I Comes in handy for hydrogen bombs too, but not much is needed compared to B a reactor.  So the government keeps tabs on anyone acquiring large quantities.   F There's no radiation hazard, but you can't escape the red tape hazard.  L >> I would be interested in your long-lost research.  Especially if you knowM >> of inexpensive sources of deuterium and gallium, which are quite expensive & >> compared to lead and sulfuric acid. > I >Problem with lead and sulfuric acid is that you need large quantities of  >both.   > F >The reaction in question here does not "consume" the reagents, in theI >sense that they are not rapidly destroyed or converted to other forms or 7 >substances, they are not required in large quantities.    Ok.  Sounds like a catalyst.  C >I first saw this info. in the Elgin (Illinois) Daily Courier News, G >circa. 1983/84. A brief write-up also appeared in a similar time frame G >in the Chicago Sun Times. As the 'Times reported it, it was discovered E >by a fellow by the name of Rory Johnson, formerly of GE, an engineer   >holding a multitude of patents.  , Ah, the old "multitude of patents" gambit...  $ >Allegedly, he discovered the effectD >quite by accident, similar to the way another fellow discovered theG >effect in use in the "magnetron tube", the "heart" of what we now call  >the microwave oven.    H The magnetron might have been an accidental discovery, but it still tookJ an emergency research program to develop practical radar for the war.  TheC Manhattan Project was bigger, but I think the radar project came in  second.   1 >He developed a process to harness and excite the E >effect such that a motor similar to that found in a typical electric F >fork lift truck could be coupled to a modified automatic transmissionB >producing torque roughly equivalent to a normally aspirated 490ciF >(roughy 7 litre) engine. The entire power plant weighed somewhat moreE >than what today would be a 3.8 litre engine (circa. 250ci or so) and H >easily fit under the hood what was then a full size car. The story saidI >that relatively small quantities of both reagents - less than a kilogram F >of each - would last the equivalent of 10,000 miles. The story didn'tH >say if that allowed for powering headlights, air conditioning, electric& >heat or other high-power accessories.  J Not enough here to comment on the process.  As a wild guess, it might have been some kind of fuel cell.  G Fuel cells have been well known for many decades, but not practical for D cars.  The popular press has had them "a few years" from large-scale) deployment for as long as I can remember.   I >I'm told that Deuterium is readily available from sea water. Not being a + >chemist, I am unfamiliar with the process.   I Readily available, but not cheaply or quickly extracted.  About 0.015% of J the hydrogen in natural water is deuterium.  So there is lots of deuterium  around, but it's very diluted.    D Since hydrogen and deuterium are virtually identical chemically, allF separation methods are based on the heavier mass of D compared to H. IJ think the most common separation method involves electrolysis.  It takes a LOT of electricity.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:08:37 +0000 (UTC) - From: Jamie Stallwood <jamie@project76.co.uk>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"8 Message-ID: <3g227ugn7s2asnah8feccbdrs5rddm1kuu@4ax.com>  , On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:37:55 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >"David J. Dachtera" wrote: K >> I'm told that Deuterium is readily available from sea water. Not being a - >> chemist, I am unfamiliar with the process.  > O >Is deurerium "heavy water" ? If so, there is a plant that produces/produced it H >about 150km east of Montteal at Bcancour (next to Qubec's token CanduN >nuclear plant which uses heavy water to control uranium reaction. Not sure if' >the plant is still operational though.   ? According to Kaye & Laby[1], Deuterium (Hydrogen-2) is a stable ? nuclide which makes up 0.015% of the natural hydrogen on Earth.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:31:02 -0500 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <WgFxPOYaHEMpW4drTwFcLEpD3Cv6@4ax.com>  5 On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 04:05:52 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:     > C >As to pollution, e-mail me privately (anyone!) and I'll share some F >long-lost research (*NOT* mine! let me make that unmistakably clear!)C >with you. It's possible today, and it's been possible for going on G >twenty(20) years - without tons of batteries and without combustion of H >any kind. One of the necessary elements is radioactive (deuterium), the >other (gallium) is not. >   < You realize that today's internal combustion engine puts out@ a fraction of the pollutants that the older ones do, 5% compared> to the early 60s.  Also, most newer cars are built to regulate; themselves quite nicely and rarely have an exhaust problem. 8 Most pollutants emitted by cars are from either older or poorly-tuned vehicles.  9 Also remember what the car replaced: a horse, which emits + on the order of 40 lbs. or manure a day ...    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:16:16 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"+ Message-ID: <a4r5s0$eln$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   L In article <a4r4j6$dlu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >In article <rdeininger-1802020746060001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: = >>In article <3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"   >><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >> >>>Robert Deininger wrote: >>>>   >> >>J >>The magnetron might have been an accidental discovery, but it still tookL >>an emergency research program to develop practical radar for the war.  TheE >>Manhattan Project was bigger, but I think the radar project came in 	 >>second.  >> > J >The British already had a practical radar system at the start of the war.M >Though there were occasional technical glitches as evidenced by the friendly ( >fire incident of 6th September 1939 see0 >http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html >   L Sorry about following up my own post. A full timeline for the development of radar can be found at   0 http://www.de220.com/Electronics/Radar/Radar.htm    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:54:30 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"+ Message-ID: <a4r4j6$dlu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>    In article <rdeininger-1802020746060001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:< >In article <3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" ><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  >  >>Robert Deininger wrote:  >>>  >  > I >The magnetron might have been an accidental discovery, but it still took K >an emergency research program to develop practical radar for the war.  The D >Manhattan Project was bigger, but I think the radar project came in >second. >   I The British already had a practical radar system at the start of the war. L Though there were occasional technical glitches as evidenced by the friendly' fire incident of 6th September 1939 see / http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html       
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:20:51 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"3 Message-ID: <v1IWic5BFePT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   L In article <a4r4j6$dlu$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article <rdeininger-1802020746060001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:= >>In article <3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"   >><djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >> >>>Robert Deininger wrote: >>>>   >> >>J >>The magnetron might have been an accidental discovery, but it still tookL >>an emergency research program to develop practical radar for the war.  TheE >>Manhattan Project was bigger, but I think the radar project came in 	 >>second.  >> > K > The British already had a practical radar system at the start of the war. N > Though there were occasional technical glitches as evidenced by the friendly) > fire incident of 6th September 1939 see 1 > http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html   J I think "practical" was subject to continuous improvement through the war.E The original British radar used considerably longer waves than modern D radar.   I believe that made it much more practical for defending an* island nation than for defending a convoy.  D I think the switch to microwaves may have been a factor throwing theC Germans off the track.  From what I have read, the exact capability B of the British radar was not known to the Germans (and the British( were interested in keeping it that way).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:48:39 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>6 Subject: Re: Any lib$ -routine to move big datablocks?) Message-ID: <3C710637.C6E56BF@oracle.com>   - you should be able to call the OTS$ routines. - These don't have a length restriction and are , what the compilers use to move data around.    Ake Liss wrote:  > I > I'm developing a primary memory resident "database" on Alpha VMS. Now I = > have found that lib$movc3 and c5 is limited to 65535 bytes.  > C > I need to be able to move datablocks in around 1/2 megabyte size.C > ; > Is there any other lib$- or sys$- routine that I can use?o > 3 > Alternativly: Can it be done in assembler/MACRO ?  >  > Best regards > -ke Lissa >  > --: > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG   --  > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:05:54 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: Backup query.3 Message-ID: <I2KU6$pk8O5V@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <a4jqbt$6l8$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Leigh G. Bowden" <LGBowden@bowdenfamily.fsnet.co.uk> writes:eN > 1). At it's easiest breaking the shadow sets and mounting them privately andM > doing backups of those before introducing them back into the shadow. As the M > system is quiet at night nobody would notice the loss of performance as the ; > copies are done. Compaq don't seem to like this approach.   A Yep.  Backing up a snapshot of a set of database files could be aI problem.  @ Best case, you get as much reliability as if you had crashed theE system hard and then trusted Oracle instance recovery to roll forward > from the redo logs and roll back from the rollback segments to$ give you back a consistent database.  @ But if you don't dismount all the shadow set members at the same? time, there is at least a theoretical risk that your "snapshot" / is not actually simultaneous on all your disks.t  I It would probably work.  But Compaq is properly offering you conservativeo advice.L  H > 2). Compaq seem to prefer dismounting the shadow volume then remount aK > single disk as a shadow and backup from the other one then introduce that I > one back into the shadow. I doubt this would work as Oracle will almostt" > certainly have some files opens.   Exactly so.   L > 3). Shutting Oracle down briefly to do 1 or 2 is unlikely as the system isN > needed 24 x 7 but I might be able to persuade the management otherwise if it! > was for about ten minutes only.?  B That's one good option.  Shut down Oracle, split your shadow sets,C start up Oracle, back up your shadow members, add your members back? into the shadow sets.-  9 Database downtime is probably on the order of one minute.    4.  Do hot database backups.  H We do that here.  We do hot backups and use archive logging.  That givesH us the ability to recover from a completely destroyed database and to doE point-in-time recovery.  We have successfully passed the "acid test",dD deleting all database files, restoring from backup tapes and rollingE forward to a point in time just prior to a misguided database update.c  I The scripts are big and site-specific.  But if you want a starting point, 0 look at ftp://ftp.na.baesystems.com/comp.os.vms.  D Some of the comments in the oracle_backup.com file in that directoryB are, perhaps, worth a read even if you decide not to use the code.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:07:02 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)? Subject: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q) ( Message-ID: <3c70fc76@news.kapsch.co.at>  L I just read that the Analysts (note, not the IT department, which is bigblueK and a large - but seemingly internally unbeloved - OpenVMS customer) of the6J greatest Austrian Bank (BANK AUSTRIA - also known from the OpenVMS successE stories) currently recommends DELL stocks well over HP/COMPAQ stocks.s  + Read if you like (in german) at the end of:i  D 	http://www.cwonline.at/idgneu-cgi/on_druckansicht.pl?ID=20020218012   just curious   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888i< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:37:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)eC Subject: Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q)m3 Message-ID: <ss5BTIT+dBBr@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  U In article <3c70fc76@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:lN > I just read that the Analysts (note, not the IT department, which is bigblueM > and a large - but seemingly internally unbeloved - OpenVMS customer) of theeL > greatest Austrian Bank (BANK AUSTRIA - also known from the OpenVMS successG > stories) currently recommends DELL stocks well over HP/COMPAQ stocks.o  C Just because I like the products of a company does not mean I think ' their stock would be a good investment.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:37:39 +0100n= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> ( Subject: Re: BLISS for C Programmers URL) Message-ID: <3C7103A3.6328F610@gtech.com>h   Larry Kilgallen wrote:j > In article <3C6FB703.E9D926D@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:@ > > But if you want to get a large number of people to work on aA > > new free operating system, then C/C++ is typical the languagenD > > those people would have experience with and prefer to work with.; > > The Linux/GNU/Apache etc. people are used to C and C++.v > > > I don't want to run software written by people who only know5 > one language and are incapable of learning another.n > B > I also do not want to run software whose implementation language( > was not chosen for reasons of quality.   That is your privilige.   A It is their privilige not to work with languages they do not wanta
 to work with.t   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:10:31 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e% Subject: booting a VXT 1300 over TFTPn; Message-ID: <01KEF3DZ3QHG8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r  F I know that some OTHER models of VXTs can boot over the internet over F TFTP.  Can a VXT 1300 do this?  If so, what do I need to configure to  get it do do this?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:30:18 +0100 , From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>) Subject: Re: booting a VXT 1300 over TFTPi* Message-ID: <a4qs4r$7sr$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KEF3DZ3QHG8ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...3G > I know that some OTHER models of VXTs can boot over the internet over G > TFTP.  Can a VXT 1300 do this?  If so, what do I need to configure to  > get it do do this?  K I don't know what an VXT 1300 is, maybe you mean a VT 1300? In that case...c  K Not likely. A VT 1300 is in fact a VAXstation 3100. Those critters can onlyi use MOP for network booting.  	 Bart Zorns   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:44:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a& Subject: Re: Clustering article in DRJ3 Message-ID: <itC+EeFCTB$Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  f In article <Qj7c8.175$YS1.4674@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:L > This article is about VMS Clustering, folks I do not know if you have seen8 > this article in DRJ.  If you want a nice copy go here:0 > http://www.drj.com/articles/win02/1501-16.html  G It is too bad I didn't know sooner.  I generally throw out the hardcopy ? of Disaster Recovery Journal that arrives (in multiple copies).o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:30:15 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>" Subject: Clustering article in DRJ1 Message-ID: <Qj7c8.175$YS1.4674@news.cpqcorp.net>i  J This article is about VMS Clustering, folks I do not know if you have seen6 this article in DRJ.  If you want a nice copy go here:. http://www.drj.com/articles/win02/1501-16.html   Username: drj Password: worldu         INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY  ; Your Disaster Tolerant IT Solution: How Does It Measure Up?    By ROBERT LYONSc  L How well is your computer system protected if a disaster were to occur? ThisK article explores the three ways of configuring computer systems in order to H provide disaster tolerance: remote copy, remote computing, and wide areaI clustering. Improved technology in high-speed long distance interconnects H such as Fibre Channel and ATM has allowed many vendors to offer disasterG tolerant products and solutions. It is important to understand how wellt' these disaster tolerant solutions work.p  G One way to measure the quality of the solution is by how little time itrF takes to recover from the outage and resume operations. The ability toJ restore all of the data to the instant before a disaster occurs may not beJ sufficient. There are many technical solutions that can be used to captureI data. Most of the solutions can even handle the multiple I/O transactionstI common to database applications. But how does your solution measure up inoF terms of the time needed to restore operations? Less time taken to getJ computing back on-line may significantly reduce the cost of the outage and= can be considered a competitive advantage to some businesses.t  K For example, in a high volume manufacturing plant we usually find a process H tracking system run by the IT organization. The system tracks labor, rawI materials, finished goods, work in progress, and many other details whichlK are vital to the company. Many of the common disaster causes such as flood, L weather, fire, and loss of power, that could stop plant's operation are also2 likely to force a shutdown of the computer system.  G The plant may be the company's only manufacturing facility, it may makemK critical parts of a larger product, or it may be just one of the many sitesyI that turn out large volumes of the finished goods. In all cases, when thetK plant is not running, it is costing the company money each minute, hour andoJ day that it is down. It is important to estimate that cost since it variesE for each business and is needed to help justify the disaster tolerant0J effort. A production line may be able to recover from this lower volume byL having employees work overtime, but a funds transfer system in a bank cannotC use the same strategy to recover from delayed transactions. PatientrG medication tracking in a hospital may be able to fall back to files andmL written charts hung on the patient's bed, but an on-line securities exchangeJ cannot use paper and pencil to track the thousands of trades per hour thatK occur each day. Each case is different, and there may be more than one caseeJ within a company, especially when multiple businesses in a company share aJ key computing system. In our example of the manufacturing plant, while theK clean up may take hours or days, the warehouse could continue operations ifcH they still had access to computers to manage raw material deliveries andE finished good shipments. In most cases, the sooner that orders can betK shipped, the sooner the company can restore business operations. Having thesH computers operational will reassure customers, since order status can beJ checked, e-mail communications can be resumed and the web site can be back on-line.  4 Remote Copy Is The Lowest Form Of Disaster Tolerance  I Making a continuous copy of the data is the first step in protecting your D critical IT infrastructure. When one copy is physically located someE distance from another copy, then we have our basic disaster toleranceyI capability. The distance between the copies will determine what disastersrJ can be tolerated. As Figure 1 shows, we can have the computer storing dataK on a local disk and have a disk farther way to hold a duplicate copy of the  critical data.              L There are many different methods and technologies that can be used to createJ and maintain the remote copy. The replicated data can originate within theE application, the copy can be created by mirror/shadow software in the H operating system, or the copy can be created by functions built into the@ storage controllers. The copy may be maintained synchronously orK asynchronously, where the data write operation may or may not be consideredDI complete until both the local and the remote copy are on the non-volatilecH surface of a disk. In its crudest form, remote copy could be implementedJ using the off-site daily backup and using transaction journaling to a disk1 that is remote from the original computer system.5  L Whichever method is chosen, all of these implementations allow the company'sJ critical data to be held at a safe distance away from the original site inI case the data storage equipment is destroyed or inaccessible. In order tolL restore operations with the remote copy strategy, the data is required to beK loaded onto suitable disks and the application programs adjusted to use thea new copy of the data.   K If the remote copy is outside the computer room, but in another room of thevL same building, the computer system is protected from disasters that occur inL the computer room only, such as a fire or an explosion. On the other hand, aK flood or an earthquake would likely affect both rooms of the same building,/I therefore, moving the data out of the computer room but keeping it in thea? same facility, only protects the business from small disasters.-  K But what if the original computers remain inaccessible or were destroyed byaK the same forces that destroyed the original copy of the data? If processingaG depends on some special or custom devices, then it will be difficult to.I resume computing without them. For the data to be useable, the computers,lH application programs, and user access network need to be operational andL accessible. Recovery time with remote copy can be measured in as little as aH few hours, but it will usually take one or more days since access to theK original computer room or a surrogate installation can be lengthened by thet original disaster.  8 Remote Computing Improves The Disaster Tolerant Solution  K Improved disaster tolerance recognizes that both data and compute power arerI needed at an alternate site. With alternate computing resources in place, K recovery of the IT infrastructure can be improved typically 10 times faster  than with remote copy.  K The time that the original data center is inaccessible or the time it takes-K to make an alternate site operational can range from five hours to 50 hoursaJ (assuming custom equipment does not need to be ordered). With an alternateF site, the recovery process is much more straightforward and documentedD recovery procedures do not need to handle the complicated process ofJ locating a computer to use. This alternate computing site does not need toL be running the same application programs and, in fact, the alternate systemsI can normally be used for wholly different functions, such as running less>L critical applications, software development and testing, or even as trainingL systems. As long as the alternate site has all of the equipment necessary toE meet the minimum level of performance, the company is operational andiL additional or replacement equipment can be installed if the original site isK not expected to be available in the near future. It may also be possible toeF relocate equipment from the original site to the alternate site if the? equipment is functional but inaccessible. In Figure 2, we see atI configuration example, which has computing and a copy of the data at bothBG sites. Note that although the computer at a site is drawn to show it iseJ physically close to the alternate site's second copy of the data, they are not actively connected.               K To continue with the factory example, the amount of processing power needed H to run the warehouse should be significantly less than needed to run theJ production floor and warehouse combined. This would allow the computers at1 the second site to be smaller and less expensive.,  G On the other hand, recovery steps needed to restore operation typically.H include a system reboot, database reload, application re-vectoring, userJ access rerouting, and other steps necessary to adjust computing operationsL to suit the alternate site. If the alternate site were running less criticalL applications, then those programs must be shifted or shut down in an orderlyG fashion. The time it takes to perform these common "failover" steps cann( range from a few minutes to a few hours.  J As long as the cost of being out of operation for up to a few hours can beH tolerated, compared to the infrequent occurrence of a disaster, then theC improved strategy meets the business needs. However, there are someaL businesses that cannot accept hours of continuous outage. Real-time systems,G such as nuclear power plant control and air traffic control systems are-F obvious cases that cannot tolerate long outages. Other cases include aL catalog order entry system, a police and fire dispatch system, or a hospitalK management system, where significant operation outages cannot be tolerated.L8 These businesses should consider the next configuration.  C Wide Area Clustering Provides The Ultimate In IT Disaster Tolerancei  E With data replicated at both sites and sufficient processing capacityeI present, applications can remain on-line when using an actively clusteredfJ configuration. Active clusters allow simultaneous application execution onH all of the computers in clustered system. When configured as a wide areaE cluster, the application can remain operational without regard to theaK physical location of the hardware. In this configuration, if a site becomesrF inoperable, the remaining workload continues at the remaining site(s).E Failover efforts typically range from minutes if you want to optimizehJ parameters for the new workload, to no time at all. This is because littleJ or no manual intervention is needed to keep the application up and runningJ on the remaining systems. As shown in Figure 3, we allow concurrent access8 to the full set of disks from the systems at both sites.              K Active clustering relies on two specific technologies. The first technologyuI provides a coordinating software function to manage access to the data solL that multiple copies of the application can read and write to the same filesH without corrupting the contents. The coordination is usually provided byJ facilities in the operating system or can be built with special proceduresL that are written by the application developer. Recent advances in high-speedI wide-area communications channels such as FDDI, fibre channel, and ATM orrA other high-speed packet switching services adds the long distanceaD communication technology needed to implement this solution. The highH availability of clustering, when added to the disaster tolerance of wideG area configurations, produces the ultimate in IT solutions. Any outage,oH whether it is a single system or a whole site, will continue to function- after the loss of part of the overall system.t  I In conclusion, we see remote copy provides only limited protection and issG the worst solution in terms of recovery time. Remote computing offers atJ superior solution in cases where businesses have sufficient capital budgetJ for the equipment, and the forethought to implement a faster recovery. ForC those businesses that recognize the criticalness of their computing J infrastructure, and have chosen to have the business "ride through" a siteJ outage, wide-area clustering offers an outstanding solution with virtuallyB the same equipment investment as in the remote computing solution.          L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----      > Robert Lyons is a systems consultant at Resilient Systems Inc.H (www.resilientsys.com). He has over 10 years experience in designing and8 implementing disaster-tolerant configurations worldwide.  B To comment on this article, go to 1501-16 at www.drj.com/feedback.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:48:40 +0100 (MET)-9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> & Subject: Re: Clustering article in DRJ; Message-ID: <01KEFAYGFOE48ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   L > This article is about VMS Clustering, folks I do not know if you have seen8 > this article in DRJ.  If you want a nice copy go here:0 > http://www.drj.com/articles/win02/1501-16.html >  > Username: drj Password: worldc >  >  >  >  > INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY > = > Your Disaster Tolerant IT Solution: How Does It Measure Up?e >  > By ROBERT LYONSc > N > How well is your computer system protected if a disaster were to occur? ThisM > article explores the three ways of configuring computer systems in order toaJ > provide disaster tolerance: remote copy, remote computing, and wide areaK > clustering. Improved technology in high-speed long distance interconnectsrJ > such as Fibre Channel and ATM has allowed many vendors to offer disasterI > tolerant products and solutions. It is important to understand how well ) > these disaster tolerant solutions work.-  B If what follows was the actual article, strange that "VMS" occurs  nowhere in it.  :-(h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:43:38 -0500 0 From: "Rob L Lyons" <rob.lyons@resilientsys.com>7 Subject: Re: Clustering article in DRJ - attn Rob Lyonsc+ Message-ID: <a4reg0$gq9$1@bob.news.rcn.net>h  e >Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message >news:9n727uoplh4l5h8ls3ovfg4d7gi9qf55na@4ax.com...e: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:48:40 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig- > <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:t >o > >tD > >If what follows was the actual article, strange that "VMS" occurs > >nowhere in it.  :-( >aB > Very strange isn't it. An article on VMS clustering that doesn't5 > mention VMS. I've heard of stealth marketing but...  >tF > And no the letters "VMS" do not appear if you follow the link eitherB > However if you go to http://www.resilientsys.com/ which links toH > Robert Lyons' company's page at the end of the article you immediatelyG > see "VMS". Question is did Robert Lyons write the article without the @ > words "VMS" or did drj edit it? Rob, are you sill reading this > newsgroup?  L DRJ wants articles to be as vendor neutral as possible, not product specificF advertisements.  The article addresses needs and solutions rather thanL products and vendors.  It is better to have a need seeking a solution ratherI than a product seeking a purpose.  This article may help identify a need.0  	 Rob Lyonsr Resilient Systems, Inc.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:41:09 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>p7 Subject: Re: Clustering article in DRJ - attn Rob Lyonss8 Message-ID: <9n727uoplh4l5h8ls3ovfg4d7gi9qf55na@4ax.com>  8 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:48:40 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig+ <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:t   > C >If what follows was the actual article, strange that "VMS" occurs ' >nowhere in it.  :-(  @ Very strange isn't it. An article on VMS clustering that doesn't3 mention VMS. I've heard of stealth marketing but...n  D And no the letters "VMS" do not appear if you follow the link either@ However if you go to http://www.resilientsys.com/ which links toF Robert Lyons' company's page at the end of the article you immediatelyE see "VMS". Question is did Robert Lyons write the article without thec> words "VMS" or did drj edit it? Rob, are you sill reading this
 newsgroup? -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:15:17 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>   Subject: Re: Couple of Questions8 Message-ID: <hsq17uol59a2oqp27l752lujgs9sgeet4b@4ax.com>  7 On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:15:30 GMT, William Barnett-LewisD <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:      > I >Really? That would be fun to use. For practical value, I'll be the firsteI >to admit that Decwrite is actually quite nice, but it would be enjoyable 1 >to run a version of Wordstar on this Vaxstation.7  E Yep, written internally within the UK MoD  (in Coral, later ported tog= VAX C) and then licensed to a third party for sale.  WordStarfD International initially raised no objections then mysteriously triedD to withdraw permission to use the name "WordStar" claiming they wereE in talks with DEC to develop their own VMS WordStar. This appeared to F be a load of nonsense and Crown Lawyers eventually jumped on them from; a great height for attempting to renege on an earlier deal.c  C These guys know how to do things in style. I worked for the companyeF marketing the product so I was along together with senior DRA (DefenceE Research Agency) personnel and crown lawyers. One in military uniformnE and one in full legal dress and a techy geek (me!) The WordStar crowd A sort of just looked aghast and then rolled over. But by then we'dt maybe lost another year.    D Again it did not help in the slightest that DEC sales kept saying toB the company directors "why are you wasting time launching this forC VMS. Here, have this Windows system free instead and concentrate on  developing for it instead.,"   >a >William   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:25:14 +0000h, From: Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net>  Subject: Re: CXX install problem- Message-ID: <3C7100B9.5B60E0B8@ukhackers.net>d   William,  B A fairly obvious question ? How much disk space do you have free ?   William Barnett-Lewis wrote:  G > I downloaded cxx056c for Vax from the Compaq web site. I have running I > Hobbyist VMS 7.2 and have C 6.0-001 from that distribution installed. IsH > have also installed and loaded the PAK for CXX.  However, when I go toJ > run vmsinstal, it grinds for a bit, says the release notes are installedH > in sys$help and grinds a bit more, printing out the copywright notice. >d
 > Then I get:r >a, > %system-f-nologname, no logical name match, > %system-f-nologname, no logical name match, > %system-f-nologname, no logical name match@ > %vmsinstal-e-install, The installation of CXX V5.6 has failed. > D > And I'm back at the DCL prompt. I tried redownloading the file andJ > trying to install an earlier version (from the June 1997 SPL I have) andG > have gotten the same results each time. I did not see anything in theh7 > release notes that gave me any more of a clue either.e >   > Any hints greatly appreciated. >e	 > Thanks,u	 > Williami > --, > You better watch out    What you wish for;- > It better be worth it   So much to die for.g/ >                                 Courtney Loves   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 10:01:28 -08000 From: wlewis@mailbag.com (William Barnett-Lewis)  Subject: Re: CXX install problem= Message-ID: <63f0b8f5.0202181001.54bbaf37@posting.google.com>-  A Show dev dka300: says just shy of 400,000 blocks free, so I doubto) that's the issue here. Good point though.d  a Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net> wrote in message news:<3C7100B9.5B60E0B8@ukhackers.net>...u
 > William, > D > A fairly obvious question ? How much disk space do you have free ? >  > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: (snip) k Williamr --* You better watch out    What you wish for;+ It better be worth it   So much to die for.a.                                  Courtney Love   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:24:43 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) 2 Subject: DECTPU: Inconsistant language behaviour ?3 Message-ID: <f9FSQc7ZjgJb@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  D In DECTPU, can you refer to a CONSTANT definition before it actually( appears in the source file ? An example:   procedure test11(in)   !	test_num := 5; 	case in 		[3]:	message("opt 3"); 		[test_num]:	message("opt 5");i	 	endcase;e
 endprocedure;e   constant test_num := 5;    	test11(5);d 	quit;  @ [In order to understand what follows, you need to be aware that:I (a) If something appears on the left hand side of an assignment before itmK is defined, then that something is defined implicitly as a global variable.lG (b) In an assignment statement, you can assign something to a constant,tA provided that it's the value that the constant was defined with.]t   If you execute:   3 	$ edit/tpu/nosection/nodisplay/command=example.tput   then this runs correctly.r  I However, if you uncomment the "test_num := 5" statement, then compilationu fails with:   L %TPU-E-CONTRADEF, contradictory definition for variable or constant TEST_NUM$ -TPU-I-SOURCELINE, at source line 10' %TPU-W-COMPILEFAIL, compilation abortede  N as if test_num had been implicitly defined as a variable during the assignmentH statement and then an attempt had been made to redefine it as a constantK when the constant statement was reached. It's also interesting to note thateM the case statement still thinks that test_num is a constant as you don't get:e  A "%TPU-E-MUSTBECONST, expression must be a compile-time constant".a  J If you now also move the constant definition to before the procedure, then the code now works correctly.o  H In summary, it appears that some language elements can forward referenceG the constant definition and that some cannot, which is inconsistant andt appears to be a bug in TPU.h   Does anybody have any ideas ?    Simon.  H PS: [:-)] And before anybody asks what I am really up to, then yes, it'sH part of my investigations into seeing how much work would be involved inL implementing TPU on Linux. (And yes, I am aware of the various Linux editors> with support for the EDT keypad; I'm using one at the moment.)   -- hG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       l+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:50:15 -0600d4 From: Arlen Williams <arlen.williams@remove.eds.com>@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.. Message-ID: <3C70CE57.56A0D167@remove.eds.com>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > - > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?o >  > Sue 
 At least 861.    Arlen Williams EDSa   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:46:21 +0000s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>uH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?8 Message-ID: <0qm17uc5h60jft1v8flkgtmk79jkq17g9j@4ax.com>  , On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:20:25 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s   > L >I think that where HP/Intel erred is in trying to share the CHIP instead ofL >each having their own chip but sharing the FAB plant. If each had their ownK >chip, then Intel would have been free to build a 64 bit 8086 that wouldn'tp& >have had as many compromises as IA64.  $ You mean like the "Yamhill"  X86-64?   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:02:32 +0000m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?8 Message-ID: <o7n17u8khlbuqvupj4kfk5urgb26ip7s53@4ax.com>  D On 17 Feb 2002 20:53:14 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  B >	Gartner is clearly guilty of downplaying the revenue.  Note thatC >	Compaq provided them the figures.  By raising this as a rebuttal,w@ >	Compaq is demonstrating that Gartner is playing fast and looseB >	with figures.  Gartner *clearly* dissed the $2 billion figure by9 >	tossing "estimated at more than $1 billion annually".  e  B Sigh... Gartner figures making VMS look bad and NSK look good wereA presented at the Financial Analysts Conference by Rich Marcello'siF boss. So if Mark Gorham (and Marcello) is unhappy with Gartner reportsF but Compaq VPs quote Gartner with pride, does this suggest anything to you?   >r: >	Also, Gartner isn't sourcing anything.  They claim that I >	"active systems" are 30-40% lower than the 411K figure and yet nowhere pB >	do they substantiate that claim.  Rumour mongering?  Surely not!  C Maybe some of Compaq's VPs (who are pally with Gartner recall) tolds them so.   >h >--- >hC >	Garter (Freudian slip, Garter is a snake...) to build a case, hasfF >	to ignore facts presented to them.  Ignore in the case of $2 billionD >	and downplay the license numbers.  Of course, their piece wouldn'tD >	read as well if they had to stick to the facts or accept the facts >	as presented.m  C If Gartner really talk rot then they have no incentive to change iftA Compaq takes their figures and quotes them  to financial analystseB anway. I presume, Rob, that you've emailed Howard Elias to put him right about Gartner?  	 >				 Robp   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:05:17 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>bH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?8 Message-ID: <5tn17u00a7lk5q4m03t7hss07ollb0gol9@4ax.com>  F On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:35:09 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   >o9 >"Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in messagee. >news:W$JbbykSi9VJ@eisner.encompasserve.org...8 >> In article <3C6D6B31.4C8547D3@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei' ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:u >e >... >m- >> > There are many possibilities, including: I >> > -having an affair with Andy Grove's daughter and/or Capellas's wife.n >>C >> I'm wondering if the lack of sunlight at certain latitudes wipesd0 >> out the ability to even remotely be humorous. >eG >Well, *I* found it at least a bit humorous.  Though since I don't knoweM >either of the ladies in question, it's possible that if you do know them youh! >have good reason to be offended.i  F Note how Rob carefully misdirected. It's not the bit he quoted that he$ objects to. It's obviously this one:  M >	-blackmailed by Compaq who found a photo of him dating in the 1970s with MylJ >Young dressed in polyester orange disco bell pants with the disco hairdo.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:23:52 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>hH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?8 Message-ID: <o5o17ugau4q5mctnp3d9fj1b7c2v3ie0ed@4ax.com>  , On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:01:29 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:w  O >Besides, this is like on a plane that had run out of fuel in the middle of theeE >ocean. Even though it might get very ugly at the end (and the end issL >inevitable), you might as well enjoy the last 30-40 minutes of a very quiet  > You, as a Canadian, should know about US military runways just* reachable in the middle of the Atlantic :)  P >flight. Pointless to worry about something you have absolutely no control over. >hL >When the plane does hit the water, then do brace yourself and deal with the >crisis at that moment.e >.I >The flight attendants (VMS engineers) have told us not to worry and thatmN >everything is fine even though we strongly suspect that the silence is causedN >by the engines being out. And unless the engineers (flight attendants) ask us( >to help, pointless to get in their way.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 06:10:44 -0800. From: jordan@greenapple.com (Jordan Henderson)H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?; Message-ID: <51d39066.0202180610.eb9a41@posting.google.com>   q Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message news:<20020216114359.T3512-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>... & > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, JF Mezei wrote: >  > >cR > > We have to wait a few months to find out what HP really intends to do. So far,Q > > it is a state of limbo until the new owners of Compaq make a clear statement.e > >i > H > Is it just me, or do others find the tone of messages here pointing atJ > the HP/COMPAQ buyout as a done deal??  I find this interesting as I seemH > to recall someone posting rules that make it very unlikely to succeed. >  > Correct me if I'm wrong, but:s( >    HP needs more than 66% "yes" votes.I >    The "H" and "P" families control 18% that is definitely voting "no".o( >    All unvoted stock counts as a "no". > G > Based on this simple bit of info, it merely takes 15% of the stock to J > remain unvoted for the deal to fall.  I would imagine there is that muchM > in the hands of little old ladies who wouldn't know a proxy if it bit them.nH > And surely the "H" and "P" families have enough influence in among theJ > people who are likely to be holding more than single shares to garner at) > least a few more percent to their side.b > @ > Do people here really think this deal is going to go through??  7 There was an interesting article in the WSJ a few days -6 back where it gave some of the reasons the deal might 5 go through.  One interesting point that was made was  9 that a lot of people who are against the deal would have m7 already sold their HP/Compaq stock.  After all, if you d5 are against the deal, you certainly don't want to be  8 holding after it's final and even if you think it might : not go through, you don't want to be holding the stock in 5 the period of uncertainty that would follow the deal   falling apart.  6 It's a good point, actually.  Even if you feel that HP5 and Compaq have long term value as separate companieso8 and you are sure the deal is going to fall through, it's4 a safer bet to sell now and pick it up again on the  other side.   8 On the other hand, they had some guy from an Investment : Bank (I think) who gave it a 30% chance of going through, 0 which was better than he had previously thought.   > N > (For the record, I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell, but then,1 > if I was anygood at this I'ld be rich, right??)o >  > bill   -Jordan Hendersonr jordan@greenapple.coml   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 08:52:22 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)sH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?3 Message-ID: <QNUJod1tvZnz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3C707627.EBE091D8@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:< >>         Because of Gartner, we know now how large VMS is.I >>         411,000 licenses and $2 billion per year in service revenues. t >  > P > But Compaq did not reply to Gartner's point that a certain percentage of those > licences are inactive. e >   > 	Andrew been gone for a while and so we have a new nominee for 	"Creative Trimmer Award."  I Compaq response:  We corrected the 400,000 to 411,000, and the $1 billion K estimated maintenance revenue stream to $2 billion.  Neither correction wasoK incorporated in the final report.  Additionally, we added government/public G sector to the list of mission-critical environments, which also was notfK included.  The source of the comment about the active production systems isr5 unknown and we strongly disagree with the assessment.g   	Read the last sentence.  M > Hey, it is great for Compaq to secretly claim 411,000 licenses for VMS (why O > won't it say so publicly on CNN or during financial analyst presentations ?),0P > but you and I know that this number, unless qualified, is totally meaningless.  B 	Meaningless in what sense?  Are you suggesting they do $2 billion> 	in maintenance on 100K systems?  200K?  300K?  or maybe 411K?   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:28:31 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>aH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?/ Message-ID: <z49c8.6528$5L.2743@news1.bloor.is>v  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C705268.6ACC9CEF@videotron.ca... >hJ > VMS engineers are confident that their jobs and projects are safe. Hence oursF > worries based on all the signals we get from the Carly/Curly/Winkler speeches) > are wrong. We need not worry about VMS.     F I have no doubts that all the good people in VMS Engineering, or Tru64J Enginnering, are all extremely capable and talented individuals. I believeK that they could make VMS sing on StrongArm or any other processor family iffJ the had to. However, my point is, how many VMS engineers are on the CompaqI Board of Directors? How many will be on the HP Board of Directors? That'sw where the decisions are made.o     >fL > Besides, this is like on a plane that had run out of fuel in the middle of theaF > ocean. Even though it might get very ugly at the end (and the end isG > inevitable), you might as well enjoy the last 30-40 minutes of a veryC quietaK > flight. Pointless to worry about something you have absolutely no controlf over.n >oI > When the plane does hit the water, then do brace yourself and deal withm then > crisis at that moment. >lJ > The flight attendants (VMS engineers) have told us not to worry and thatH > everything is fine even though we strongly suspect that the silence is causedL > by the engines being out. And unless the engineers (flight attendants) ask us) > to help, pointless to get in their way.h  K For many, this is not an option. It's not a matter of getting in the way ofnL anyone in the passenger cabin. It's a case of one of those new non-breakableI cockpit doors, and both the pilot and co-pilot are slumped senseless overoD the controls, suffering from food-poisoning (based on a true story -' happened in Canada in the late 1950's).l  H Your boss, who is also riding on the same plane with you panics, reachesJ under his seat and find a combination life jacket and parachute with a SunH logo on it. He thinks that the Sun parachute/life jacket offers the bestH chance of survival, despite being army-surplus left over from WWII, with> suspect bouyancy of the life jacket, and that the parachute isJ non-steerable. He figures that the odds you won't die hitting the water atJ 500 Kph (typically this is what happens) or that you won't drown (at leastI not right away) in the old life jacket are reasonable, so he tells you torK put the Sun life jacket and parachute on and jump from 10,000 metres and at  850 Kph.  J His rationale is, "I don't want to be a bunch of body parts that my familyL won't recognize, that are recovered after the plane hits the water. If I useJ the parachute and life jacket I might break a bone on landing, and I mightI get a mild case of hypothermia before we get resuced, and I'll spend somenK time in the hospital recovering. But the 'mission' can continue, I'll still-= have a job, I'll be battered and bruised, but I'll be alive."   L All because we can't bust into the cockpit and pull the incapacitated flight	 crew out.o   (metaphor off)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:45:51 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>iH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?+ Message-ID: <3C714BDC.E511CF7@videotron.ca>e   John Smith wrote: J > Your boss, who is also riding on the same plane with you panics, reachesL > under his seat and find a combination life jacket and parachute with a SunJ > logo on it. He thinks that the Sun parachute/life jacket offers the best > chance of survival,m  H The problems is that the flight attendants accuse any passenger who seesJ danger ahead of being the cause of the problem. The flight attendants haveM blind 100% confidence that the pilots are fully awake and working to make theu airplane fly higher.  M It is therefore pointless to try to explain to the flight attendants that the.M plane has runned out of fuel and that while the pilots are perfectly happy tovN glide the plane, they have no intentions of attempting to restart the engines.N The pilots are expecting all passengers to remain seated and happy right untilM the very end, so anyone who causes trouble because he realises what is really-' happening is labeled a "trouble maker".m  J It is a damned shame that the flight attendants are accusing the customersJ instead of the pilots for the plane's problems. Oh, I forgot, the plane isK doing perfecly well and not losing altitude, and the engines are running ino, stealth mode that makes absolutely no noise.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:59:30 +0000s, From: Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net>$ Subject: Hobbyist - Layered Products- Message-ID: <3C7116D2.61A40FF7@ukhackers.net>    Hi,e  H The VAX Hobbyist CD contains a few layered products, but by no means all4 those that the Hobbyist site shows license PAKs for.? How have other hobbyists obtained additional layered products ?oG Has anyone used the Compaq software loan site to do this (the agreementt implies not) ?) What is the correct way top go about it ?a   thanks,n   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:18:25 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>o( Subject: Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products6 Message-ID: <20020218151825.10414.qmail@gacracker.org>  B On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net> wrote: >Hi, > I >The VAX Hobbyist CD contains a few layered products, but by no means allh5 >those that the Hobbyist site shows license PAKs for.i@ >How have other hobbyists obtained additional layered products ?H >Has anyone used the Compaq software loan site to do this (the agreement >implies not) ?e* >What is the correct way top go about it ?  I Good question, I'd like to add BASIC to the languages I make available tobH users, but currently have no easy way of getting hold of an install kit.     Doc. -- e6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.nets   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:33:29 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>i( Subject: Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products6 Message-ID: <20020218153329.10846.qmail@gacracker.org>  B On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net> wrote: >>L >> Good question, I'd like to add BASIC to the languages I make available toL >> users, but currently have no easy way of getting hold of an install kit.  >lM >BASIC is one of the few products that are on the VAX Hobbyist CD, or are youu >referring to AXP ?-  ? AXP. You get Java, FORTRAN, COBOL, PASCAL and C - but no BASIC.      Doc. -- l6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net7   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:52:39 +0000i, From: Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net>( Subject: Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products- Message-ID: <3C712347.EC490E65@ukhackers.net>2   >0K > Good question, I'd like to add BASIC to the languages I make available tohJ > users, but currently have no easy way of getting hold of an install kit.  L BASIC is one of the few products that are on the VAX Hobbyist CD, or are you referring to AXP ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:42:31 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n4 Subject: Re: How to become a Hobbyist (the hard way)8 Message-ID: <12q17ugehqgclsc6kvauokaq8agoiu47pc@4ax.com>  7 On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:48:57 GMT, William Barnett-Lewis. <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:l  F >I've had none of the difficulties you describe with loading anything;I >that much at least has always "just worked" for both product install andRC >vmsinstal. The biggest problem I have is the lack of good beginnergI >system management information. While I am an experianced Unix sysadm,but1  , http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wbt/index.html  4 OpenVMS Primer for systems managers online training.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:21:11 +0000w, From: Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net>4 Subject: Re: How to become a Hobbyist (the hard way)- Message-ID: <3C70FFC6.849E9049@ukhackers.net>e   Mike Rechtman wrote:  = > Does anyone remember a book/folder called "VAX/VMS primer"? : > It was part of the doc set circa V4.7 - V5.5.  Less than: > 50pp. - Anyone starting on VMS (WE don' need no stinkin'> > OPEN) was thrown a copy and told to work through it. Another: > good intro IIRC used to be the first few chapters of the > "VAX-11 C manual" (V1.0) >o  N I always liked the Architecture handbook....Some 'nice' black & white pictures/ of VT100 terminals and line printer consoles...a     >  > Mike >o > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > 1 > > Yikes! Glad I didn't have that much headache.c > >tI > > I only got my first Vax last August - a VLC as well. Stuck 24mb in it.K > > and hung a plextor external cdrom off of it's back and every thing went J > > find. Since then I found a local university surplus shop that had a VSK > > 4000/90, 64mb, 1 1gb drive and 2 2.1gb drives (one of the latter simplyfL > > laying in the cdrom bay...), keyboard, no mouse, but 19" Dec monitor forB > > $50. That, still with my external plextor, is my main Vax now. > <snipped...> >n > >I > > William, > >  > > Mark Redding wrote:a > >pL > >>I've recently installed Hobbyist VMS 7.2 onto my VAXstation 4000 VLC ... > >>" > >>http://www.aragorn.org.uk/vax/ > >>G > >>...Is my diary of events in the hope that it may be of use to other  > >>struggling Hobbyists.s > >>	 > >>Mark.  > >> > >  >n > -- >5( > New to c.o.vms? allow me to recommend:8 > http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~rechtman/post_hlp.htmG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------s< > Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not > even that.> > Mike Rechtman                         *rechtman@tzora.co.il*= > Kibbutz Tzor'a.                Voice (home):(972)-2-9908337i@ > 20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 10:04:31 -08000 From: wlewis@mailbag.com (William Barnett-Lewis)4 Subject: Re: How to become a Hobbyist (the hard way)= Message-ID: <63f0b8f5.0202181004.76c4da37@posting.google.com>o  e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<12q17ugehqgclsc6kvauokaq8agoiu47pc@4ax.com>...e9 > On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:48:57 GMT, William Barnett-Lewisq > <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:g > H > >I've had none of the difficulties you describe with loading anything;K > >that much at least has always "just worked" for both product install and E > >vmsinstal. The biggest problem I have is the lack of good beginnerhK > >system management information. While I am an experianced Unix sysadm,bute > . > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wbt/index.html > 6 > OpenVMS Primer for systems managers online training.   Excellent pointer. Thank you.    Williamh   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:03:44 +0000n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>$ Subject: Re: Installing a DSSI drive) Message-ID: <3C70DF90.EB5CDEB8@127.0.0.1>t   Dennis Grevenstein wrote: @ > I'm trying to install a second DSSI drive (RF71) in a MicroVAX= > 3400. The drive came out of a R215F storage expansion tower ) > and I also tranferred the mounting kit.r9 > Now the drive seems to be properly installed and I haver; > connected it to the VAX. I reused the small plug from the 6 > R215F. The first drive has ID0, the new one has ID1.< > So far, so good, but the drive does not seem to get power.9 > I connected one of the two power cables coming from the 2 > second power supply. The drive does not spin up.8 > I tried using one of these power cables with the first4 > drive, but then the first drive won't spin up too.5 > Is there anything needed to use the cables from thee > seond power supply?H  1 No-one seems to have answered this, so here goes.d  F I'm not sure I understand your configuration, but if I read your faultF testing correctly, one of the power leads fails to power up the drive.E THis could simply be due to a break in the cables or a bad connector. 9 DSSI power cables have 5 (five) pins, not the standard 4.o  C This is where I start guessing. Some DSSI drives, because they weretE based on standard SCSI drives, had a 4 pole power connector, that was @ piggy backed off the DSSI controller board, which had the 5 poleG connector. Using the 4 pole will not work, this power needs to be takenm$ from the DSSI board, via the 5 pole.  B If you don't have a 5 pole connector, then it is not a DSSI drive.  C If you power up the system, can the system see the drives? Both of?m  C It may be the disk is faulty, but the DSSI electronics may help youo> diagnose the fault, but it's perhaps beyond the scope of this. -- l( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot coml   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:32:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n Subject: Re: Itanium troublesf3 Message-ID: <WyJvHPJWHFH+@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  o In article <Up%b8.3032$ro5.512988@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: . > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > - > ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01C1B80B.AB9C1AD0i > Content-Type: text/plain;w > 	charset="iso-8859-1"r- > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printables  & Please do not post MIME in newsgroups.J Contact your software vendor if the method for avoiding MIME is not clear.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:35:14 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) A Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimee3 Message-ID: <P5TWrnoeDmGi@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  P In article <3C6D5B5A.5EA21AA8@cha.ab.ca>, Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes:9 > Thanks for your post.  FYI, here is our cluster uptime.t > E >     This cluster has been operational since 31-JAN-1993 04:12:54.36 H >     and this system has been operational since 20-SEP-2001 17:02:28.00 >   K Now _that's_ the kind of uptime that a VMS cluster should have. Has it been : providing continuous production service during that time ?  9 Are you allowed to talk about the cluster configuration ?t  E Any others with cluster uptimes of 5 years or greater ? (I've already  seen Alan Greig's posting).e   Simon.   -- -G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       o+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.:   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:25:20 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) A Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimea, Message-ID: <a4r9tg$1u65$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  T In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1C8E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>,.  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:* |> re: Cluster uptime vs. system uptime... |> 'H |>                                Simply allow current users to continueJ |> and finish, but redirect all new users to other systems in the cluster.H |> Also, need to set local batch jobs to finish what they are doing, butK |> redirect new batch jobs to other system queues in the cluster. When thatNH |> one system has no connections or users left on it, it can be shutdown3 |> with the application availability still at 100%.s  B Ummm.  I can do that with any group of machines, clustered or not.C In fact, I usually do this with my BSD servers now at upgrade time.e   |> lE |> This approach may not be for everyone i.e. if one has long runningiF |> (multi-day) batch jobs that have no checkpoint capability, or largeI |> numbers of users that stay logged in to specific systems forever, then J |> some additional steps need to be taken (e.g. ask a user to logout/loginF |> again), but these issues are typically part of the overall solution
 |> design.  C Yup..  Same problems.  I have users who never log off.  Eventually, B I either have to tell them to log of or force them off, the latter being only as a last resort.   |> sG |> I know of one site where they do not even tell users a system in thecH |> cluster is going down for proactive stuff (upgrades, maint etc) as itI |> will not impact them. They have a number of three node clusters acrossrG |> the country  config'ed such that any two nodes can easily carry peaka	 |> loads.n  C Suddenly, I no longer see the advantage of a cluster over the bunchy of multiple machines I run.n   bill   -- wJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:19:02 -0500o+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> A Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1CC1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Bill,c  F >>> Ummm.  I can do that with any group of machines, clustered or not.F In fact, I usually do this with my BSD servers now at upgrade time.<<<  B So, is a particular resource is "served" to your user community byC system A, how do you shutdown System A for planned maint like an OSbH upgrade without telling your users that System A will be unavailable forG some period (even if it does go quickly) while its resources are failedr over to System B?=20  G When System A is again back up again, how do you failback the resourcesg8 on System B back to System A without telling your users?  G >>> Suddenly, I no longer see the advantage of a cluster over the buncht of multiple machines I run.<<<  @ Each of which requires individual startup,  config, application,@ database, files, etc etc .. as opposed to management of a singleF environment. Almost all UNIX vendors promote SSI (single system image)7 as a big advantage over managing multiple single boxes.   C Again, for smaller and/or internal environments that seldom change,iC and/or with down time relatively easy to schedule, managing lots ofc5 boxes on their own may be ok for your environment.=20t  E However, large and/or dynamic environments with 24x7 mission criticalt, shops have much more demanding requirements.   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Compaq Canada Corp.o Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660' Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]  Sent: February 18, 2002 11:25 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimei    
 In articleH <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1C8E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net> ,a.  "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> writes:* |> re: Cluster uptime vs. system uptime... |>=20aH |>                                Simply allow current users to continueA |> and finish, but redirect all new users to other systems in the. cluster.H |> Also, need to set local batch jobs to finish what they are doing, butF |> redirect new batch jobs to other system queues in the cluster. When thatH |> one system has no connections or users left on it, it can be shutdown3 |> with the application availability still at 100%.0  B Ummm.  I can do that with any group of machines, clustered or not.C In fact, I usually do this with my BSD servers now at upgrade time.    |>=20.E |> This approach may not be for everyone i.e. if one has long runningrF |> (multi-day) batch jobs that have no checkpoint capability, or largeD |> numbers of users that stay logged in to specific systems forever, then= |> some additional steps need to be taken (e.g. ask a user toe logout/loginF |> again), but these issues are typically part of the overall solution
 |> design.  C Yup..  Same problems.  I have users who never log off.  Eventually,lB I either have to tell them to log of or force them off, the latter being only as a last resort.   |>=20 G |> I know of one site where they do not even tell users a system in the H |> cluster is going down for proactive stuff (upgrades, maint etc) as itB |> will not impact them. They have a number of three node clusters acrossG |> the country  config'ed such that any two nodes can easily carry peakp	 |> loads.t  C Suddenly, I no longer see the advantage of a cluster over the bunch  of multiple machines I run.l   bill   --=20eC Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threet wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |C Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  =20    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 08:36:55 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)1 Subject: MAILERRORS.COM (was Re: DCL procedure's)H= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202180836.65ff5e55@posting.google.com>c   ...t [Control-Y pressed]  *Interrupt*o $ SPAWNf% %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process COV_1 spawnedl7 %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process COV_1o $ DECK  b "tim" <t_stekkinger@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<qW7b8.49873$W05.116109@zonnet-reader-1>... > Hello, > / > i am looking for some usefull DCL-procedure's % > maybe you wanna share some programs- >  > many thanx >  > tim   C Here's one. This DCL command procedure checks for device errors andeD mails them to SYSTEM. Put it in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR] and call it fromF SYS$MANAGER:SYSHUTDWN.COM. This way, SHUTDOWN will automatically checkF for device errors so that you don't miss any between the last time you& ran SHOW ERROR and when you shut down.      $!+  MAILERRORS.COM  $!# $!   Place in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]! s) $!   Call from SYS$MANAGER:SYSHUTDWN.COM!a $! $!!  Initialize symbols: $? $    MAIL = "MAIL" $    WSC := WRITE SYS$COMMAND  $    WSO := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT $n $!!  Define status codes:t $y$ $    MAILERRORS__STATUS = %X180380006 $    MAILERRORS__SUCCESS = MAILERRORS__STATUS + %X00016 $    MAILERRORS__WARNING = MAILERRORS__STATUS + %X00008 $    MAILERRORS__CONTROL_Y = MAILERRORS__STATUS + %X000C $t $!!  Establish handlers: $.! $    STATUS = MAILERRORS__SUCCESS & $    ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO _CONTROL_Y  $    ON WARNING THEN GOTO _ERROR $   $    NODE = F$GETSYI("NODENAME")2 $    IF (F$SEARCH("MAILERRORS.LIS").NES."") THEN -%         DELETE/NOLOG MAILERRORS.LIS;*a% $    SHOW ERROR/OUTPUT=MAILERRORS.LIS3E $    SIZE = F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("MAILERRORS.LIS","EOF") ! Get number ofaF $!                                              ! blocks used by file. $    IF (SIZE .GT. 0)k	 $    THEN  $        SET NOONuE $        MAIL MAILERRORS.LIS SYSTEM         /SUBJECT="''NODE' Errors"C$ $        ON WARNING THEN GOTO _ERROR $        WSO " "F $        WSO "*******************************************************"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*       Device errors found.                          *"F $        WSO "*       SHOW ERROR output mailed to SYSTEM and        *"F $        WSO "*       displayed below.                              *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*******************************************************" $        WSO " " $        TYPE MAILERRORS.LIS $        WSO " "
 $    ENDIF  $    ON WARNING THEN GOTO _ERROR $    GOTO _EXIT1 $e $_CONTROL_Y:# $    STATUS = MAILERRORS__CONTROL_Yi $    GOTO _EXITc $R $_ERROR: $    STATUS = $STATUSh $    GOTO _EXIT- $  $_EXIT:h
 $    SET NOON8 $    ! Cleanup code goes here.% $    EXIT STATUS .OR. %X10000000   !#-    ( Call the above from SYSHUTDWN.COM, e.g.:     $ TYPE SYSHUTDWN.COMA $!      This is an empty site-specific system shutdown procedure.aA $!      If you have specific system shutdown requirements at yourg< $!      site, you should place the required commands in this
 procedure. $!* $!!  Mail device errors to system manager: $   $    @SYS$MANAGER:MAILERRORS.COM $n	 $    EXIT      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmani afeldman~!~!~gfigroup.com    $ EOD- $ LOGOUT5   Process COV_1 logged out at 18-FEB-2002 16:28:55.52 0 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process COV $:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:55:03 -05009( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com># Subject: Re: Mount disk at startup?r, Message-ID: <3C70A547.5050701@tsoft-inc.com>   David McKenzie wrote:5   > and why would you usen > 6 > $mount/system/borebuild/noassist dka100: disk0 disk0 > 2 > rather than define the logical seperately later?    I No real good reason, for disks that are being mounted.  I define logical .D names for the public disk(s), and for the CD-ROM drive(s).  The CDs 9 won't be mounted at this time, unless they are dedicated.s  F I'm a bit of a tape drive in my old age.  One thing at a time.  So, I 4 mount disks, and define logicals, as seperate tasks.    > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3C6FE4A2.B5BB6513@fsi.net...d >  >>David Froble wrote:e >>	 >>>[snip] D >>>Mount your disks as follows, either in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, anotherI >>>command file invoked by SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, or in subsequent batch jobssK >>>that are part of system startup.  (Note, there are advantages to keepingtF >>>SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM minimal, doing just what's required for a runningG >>>system, and then doing the rest of the start-up processing in one oraH >>>more batch jobs.  Of course, starting the batch queue will have to be >>>done in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.) >>>o >>>$! Mount public disks here  >>>$ >>>$ wso "  mount public disks"m* >>>$ mount /system /noassist DKA100: DISK1 >>>sF >>>Note the /NOASSIST switch.  This is highly recommended.  Otherwise,J >>>you'll need to hire operators 24 x 7 to assist with any mount problems. >>>- > :-)- > H >>>Also define logical names for all disks.  Then reference the disks byK >>>the logical names.  This allows the physical disks to change, but for it % >>>to be transparent to applications.* >>>i >>>$! Define disk logical namese >>>$ >>>$ wso "  define disk names"% >>>$ define /system /exec DISK0 DKA0:s' >>>$ define /system /exec DISK1 DKA100:-' >>>$ define /system /exec DISK2 DKA200:-' >>>$ define /system /exec DISK3 DKA300:a' >>>$ define /system /exec DISK4 DKA400:w' >>>$ define /system /exec DISK5 DKA500:u' >>>$ define /system /exec DISK6 DKA600:h >>>a1 >>An explanation of "wso" might also be in order.n    I Sorry, I was cutting and pasting from a VMS session.  I and I think many g- others learned long ago to set up the symbol:S   WSO :== WRITE SYS$OUTPUT   Dave   >> >>-- >>David J. Dachteraa >>dba DJE Systems  >>http://www.djesys.com/ >>* >>Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! >>http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u >> >  >        -- d4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:42:22 -0000a= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> # Subject: Re: Mount disk at startup?mB Message-ID: <1014021817.11518.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  ( Of course I meant why *wouldn't* you use  4 $mount/system/borebuild/noassist dka100: disk0 disk0  F I guess I would also say if the  disk wasn't there I wouldn't want the logicals defined  H "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> wrote in message; news:1013983837.8330.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk...t > and why would you use  >l6 > $mount/system/borebuild/noassist dka100: disk0 disk0 > 2 > rather than define the logical seperately later? > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3C6FE4A2.B5BB6513@fsi.net.... > > David Froble wrote:u > > > [snip]G > > > Mount your disks as follows, either in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, anothersL > > > command file invoked by SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, or in subsequent batch jobsF > > > that are part of system startup.  (Note, there are advantages to keepingdI > > > SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM minimal, doing just what's required for a running J > > > system, and then doing the rest of the start-up processing in one orK > > > more batch jobs.  Of course, starting the batch queue will have to ber! > > > done in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.)  > > >d  > > > $! Mount public disks here > > > $e" > > > $ wso "  mount public disks"- > > > $ mount /system /noassist DKA100: DISK1  > > >oI > > > Note the /NOASSIST switch.  This is highly recommended.  Otherwise,oC > > > you'll need to hire operators 24 x 7 to assist with any mount 	 problems.m > :-)S > > >,K > > > Also define logical names for all disks.  Then reference the disks bySK > > > the logical names.  This allows the physical disks to change, but forf it( > > > to be transparent to applications. > > >t" > > > $! Define disk logical names > > > $ ! > > > $ wso "  define disk names"i( > > > $ define /system /exec DISK0 DKA0:* > > > $ define /system /exec DISK1 DKA100:* > > > $ define /system /exec DISK2 DKA200:* > > > $ define /system /exec DISK3 DKA300:* > > > $ define /system /exec DISK4 DKA400:* > > > $ define /system /exec DISK5 DKA500:* > > > $ define /system /exec DISK6 DKA600: > >23 > > An explanation of "wso" might also be in order.h > >@ > > -- > > David J. Dachterai > > dba DJE Systemse > > http://www.djesys.com/ > >e, > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/8 >1 >    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:09:21 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)   Subject: Mozilla 0.98 & printing0 Message-ID: <a4qnd1$gvh$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  I after installing Mozilla 0.98 under OpenVMS 7.1-2 I noticed that I cannotSN print anymore. The print files are created and placed into the specified queueM but then they simply disappear. This happens with every page I tried to printAN and every printer I tried (new and old ones, color and monochrome). I opened aL bug at Mozilla's page but wonder whether I am the only one experiencing this	 problem? c   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannn  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:26:53 GMT-' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>b$ Subject: Re: Mozilla 0.98 & printing- Message-ID: <3C711D3C.85021272@theblakes.com>L  M Please use bugzilla. This is already reported and a workaround is posted. Bugi 124139.f2 http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124139   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:58:35 +0900a& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net>! Subject: Network Printer problems + Message-ID: <a4qt5a$1ti$1@news1.kornet.net>u  I I know I asked you this question before but it seemed like I kept gettingiC this same problem when printing.  Currently this network printer ist connected through the hub.  ) When I do the $tcpip show host, I can seet   Host Address        Host Names   127.0.0.1             localhostt   7.X.X.X              my_printer   D I issued a couple print job but nothing coming out. I then looked at   $show entry/full   It displayed  5 Entry    Jobname     Username     Blocks       Statusw  A 1          login            myname        1               Stalledi  ! On stalled printer queue my_queuet  G 2          file2            myname          5400         pending (Queueo Stalled)  G 3          file3            myname          5300         pending (Queuee Stalled)   I even issued the    $start/queu my_queue   It saidt  & %JBC-E-Stalled, Queue already started.  # Do you have any ideas what's wrong?m  	 Thank youI     Phong.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:20:31 -0500o2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???1 Message-ID: <Ea7c8.174$YS1.4608@news.cpqcorp.net>c   Terry is correct.f   Suec Former editor OpenVMS Timest  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message E news:rdeininger-1502022234320001@1cust197.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net... ? > In article <8af17fe1.0202151202.47d82316@posting.google.com>,d? > alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich) wrote:n > F > >Just read the latest couple of SKC issues.  According to Terry, theG > >OpenVMS Times is going the way of so many other things OpenVMS.  ThesD > >newsletter will get a name change and be de-focused from OpenVMS. > > : > > "Consistent with Compaq's decision to merge all things6 > > Alpha, Tru64 UNIX, OpenVMS, and HPTC under VP Rich7 > > Marcello's High Performance Systems Group, the firme9 > > elected to re-invent the 'OpenVMS Times' as the 'HighD  > > Performance Systems Times'." >AG > I believe Terry's information is not accurate in this case.  It is myt@ > understanding that the OpenVMS Times newsletter will continue.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:50:53 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???8 Message-ID: <hx8c8.3396$ro5.785883@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  = "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messagei+ news:Ea7c8.174$YS1.4608@news.cpqcorp.net...i > Terry is correct.B >0 > Suen > Former editor OpenVMS Timesn  L Apparently the questioner had an advance copy of a very recent issue of SKC.H The decision to reformat the publications should come as no great shock.L Look at the continuing metamorophosis in the publishing industry as a whole.  D If you want to support VMS, by all means contribute to the HPS Times8 newsletter, which will still have plenty of VMS content.   And patronize www.openvms.orgs   And www.compaqusers.orgn  K And of course, I never turn down subscription requests to my newsletter ;-}l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:45:52 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???8 Message-ID: <dv327uke6u2hs9m4d1q2akut9h8joaiqkq@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:20:31 -0500, "Sue Skonetski"r# <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:n   >Terry is correct. >p >Sue >Former editor OpenVMS Times  E So the short-lived OpenVMS Times is no more. Congrats while it lastedqC Sue. Is this connected with http://www.theinquirer.net/18020201.htmiF which tells us how Mary Ellen Fortier is now in charge of "EVERYTHING"  C Who thinks up this sh*t? Do you sit around at meetings and say "HeyeD the VMS crowd are worried we're pulling a fast one with this port. I< know let's shut down their magazine. That'll reassure them."  E I'm sure Rob can jump in here and tell us how tying the OpenVMS Times D more directly to the rest of the Alpha sinking ship is a good thing.E Didn't Compaq just shut down some Alpha publications a few months ago E and Compaq apologists told us this was so they could concentrate more  effort on the OpenVMS Times?  @ I have to say I've heard nothing but good about Sue but a lot ofD "don't get me started" regarding MEF. I hope there's no substance to this.     @ >"Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messageF >news:rdeininger-1502022234320001@1cust197.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...@ >> In article <8af17fe1.0202151202.47d82316@posting.google.com>,@ >> alphaman-nixspam@hsv.sungardtrust.com (Aaron Sakovich) wrote: >>G >> >Just read the latest couple of SKC issues.  According to Terry, thesH >> >OpenVMS Times is going the way of so many other things OpenVMS.  TheE >> >newsletter will get a name change and be de-focused from OpenVMS.n >> >; >> > "Consistent with Compaq's decision to merge all thingsd7 >> > Alpha, Tru64 UNIX, OpenVMS, and HPTC under VP Richo8 >> > Marcello's High Performance Systems Group, the firm: >> > elected to re-invent the 'OpenVMS Times' as the 'High! >> > Performance Systems Times'."h >>H >> I believe Terry's information is not accurate in this case.  It is myA >> understanding that the OpenVMS Times newsletter will continue.e >T   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:49:30 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> $ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???, Message-ID: <3C714CB7.A5B0E643@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:C > Methinks the decision likely has a great deal more to do with thesI > metamorphosis of Compaq than with any connection to the workings of theh > 'publishing industry'.  Duh.  J It is a bit strange though that they would bother restructuring this rightM away and not way until after March when HP can then publish a single unixfiedm+ publication with the remaining product set.u  G Or perhaps the new Compaq publication will be dedicated to the "legacy"2E products that are still being maintained, and HP will have its "true"tM enterprise magazine with the products that will survive the merger. In such ar= case, the new Compaq publication would already be "HP ready".n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 02:04:35 -0500r  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>% Subject: Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1 6 Message-ID: <1020218015953.20483A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ) On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, A Bonaveidogo wrote:o   > Hi All > 0 > I'm using Oracle RDB V 7.0-1 on OpenVMS v7.2-1 > I > When I execute @sys$startup:rmonstart to start RDB, I got the followingS > error msg; > " > error activating image DTI$SHARE > N > Where can I get this image file? Do I have to install another layer product? > If so which one? >  > Need your help >  > AB  H It's part of VMS.  It should be in sys$library:.  If it is missing, thenE someone or something must have deleted it.  Or maybe you tailored offO1 DECdtm.  (Don't know that this is even possible.)n  G If it is there, then maybe it didn't get installed as a shareable image_D when you booted.  Are you out of free global sections or free global* pages?  Maybe it is time for an autogen...   -- Y John Santos_ Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:53:35 -0500 2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1M* Message-ID: <3C71075E.53F7641D@oracle.com>  8 First, please upgrade Rdb to a supported version.  7.0-16 is an antique.  Rdb V7.0.6.3 is the current release...  8 DTI$SHARE is part of the distributed transaction support5 in VMS.  You could re-install VMS (I see that you are08 running on an Alpha) and it would re-appear.  If you are9 going to re-install, you might want to consider upgradingO9 to 7.2-2.  Alternately, you could probably copy the image"  off of your distribution media.    A Bonaveidogo wrote: >  > Hi All > 0 > I'm using Oracle RDB V 7.0-1 on OpenVMS v7.2-1 > I > When I execute @sys$startup:rmonstart to start RDB, I got the following  > error msg; > " > error activating image DTI$SHARE > N > Where can I get this image file? Do I have to install another layer product? > If so which one? >  > Need your help >  > AB   --  > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:00:10 GMT0 From: roland.haider@at.bosch.com (Roland Haider)# Subject: Re: PPP for TCPIP on VAX ?*5 Message-ID: <91B9558C0rolandhaideratboschc@127.0.0.1>S  0 prep@prep.synonet.com (Paul Repacholi) wrote in " <871yfktj81.fsf@prep.synonet.com>:  0 >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > B >> With Compaq in a state of limbo until its fate is decided by HPC >> shareholders, would there be any chance that VMS engineers wouldEC >> release the code for the PPP interface to TCPIP software so thatO# >> hobbyists could port it to VAX ?! > > >I am pretty sure that the PPPD et al code *has* been releasedA >somewhere... Now if someone :) can fill in the correwct value of! >'somewhere' :) :) >p >eC That would be a real help, 'cause it would also make it easy to addrB PAP/CHAP capeability. (The lack of it renders PPPD useless even on
 my Alphas)F There is vax-nat arround, and that's what i want to use to replace my  router.T   Cheers, Roland   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:14:05 +0100o From: Brass <welcome@spam.net>$ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ( Message-ID: <3C70A9BD.8BA62F83@spam.net>   William Barnett-Lewis wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >D  > > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > D > > > Also pointers to various programming resources would be good -M > > > like the link to the Bliss for C programmers document that was recentlysN > > > posted or a tutorial on how to use Forms (since it's on the hobbyist PAK > > > list.) > >aL > > Are your referring to "forms" as in DEFINE/QUEUE/FORM and PRINT/FORM, or > > DECforms, or FMS?l > F > In this case, DECForms. I found the PAK on the list and installed itJ > from the old SPL I have and now have no clue what to do. Though I expectH > that, as always, "HELP FORMS" is my friend here (Ah, yep. Now what wasE > that incantation for getting a text file out of help? Another FAQ In > should writeup.) > H > Back to the main topic of this thread, this is another reason for thatH > list of just what some of the layered products are. I mention the word/ > Forms and you know _4_ places it might apply.e  F Not really. He obviously didn't read your posting carefully otherwise E he would have noticed that two of his examples are completely OT and oB the other two are not good ones either. Good descriptions of most C of these products are available at http://www.compaq.com/info/SPD/.c   > 	 > William$ > --, > You better watch out    What you wish for;- > It better be worth it   So much to die for.N/ >                                 Courtney Lovee   --  6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:29:43 +0000d, From: Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net>$ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ- Message-ID: <3C7101C6.F147CB15@ukhackers.net>e   > F > In this case, DECForms. I found the PAK on the list and installed itJ > from the old SPL I have and now have no clue what to do. Though I expectH > that, as always, "HELP FORMS" is my friend here (Ah, yep. Now what wasE > that incantation for getting a text file out of help? Another FAQ IK > should writeup.) >sH > Back to the main topic of this thread, this is another reason for thatH > list of just what some of the layered products are. I mention the word/ > Forms and you know _4_ places it might apply.  >y  P Another, worst, example is the PAK for TCP/IP which us old boys know as UCX, but! a beginner certainly wouldn't !!!a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:23:06 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>.2 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy8 Message-ID: <cl627u4f67gte67ju6vm41652ub4ubef7e@4ax.com>  . On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:33:48 -0500, Bob Supnik  <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> wrote:  C >- VMS: Tim Stark has demonstrated that removing one line in PROBEW6 >  >if (prv > mode) mode = prv; > G >allows the bringup to get much further.  Unfortunately, the PROBE codee9 >is correct; I've checked this against four different VAXa< >implementations.  The underlying problem remains a mystery. >o+ >Sources to M+ and VMS would REALLY HELP...y  A Can perhaps some of the current OpenVMS engineering team help outuD here? Haven't source CDs been handed out at DECUS sessions before asE prizes? Surely  an ex DECcie of such standing as Mr Supnik could havek one.    C I've taken the liberty (sorry Steve) of cc'ng this to Steve Hoffmant and cross-posting to c.o.v.l   >m >/Bobs  F Guess you could always buy the VMS listing CD if Compaq don't take the hint.s -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:06:57 +0000 , From: Mark Redding <grawlfang@ukhackers.net>2 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy- Message-ID: <3C7126A1.7EE30697@ukhackers.net>t  - > >Sources to M+ and VMS would REALLY HELP....  J Back in the good old days one could get access to sources on microfilm, is that still the case ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:47:45 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i2 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy8 Message-ID: <qg827uk4qckks8it2a052j99qho4l4b1vr@4ax.com>  . On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:33:48 -0500, Bob Supnik  <bsupnik@nauticusnet.com> wrote:  C >- VMS: Tim Stark has demonstrated that removing one line in PROBEW  >s >if (prv > mode) mode = prv; > G >allows the bringup to get much further.  Unfortunately, the PROBE codei9 >is correct; I've checked this against four different VAXw< >implementations.  The underlying problem remains a mystery. >i+ >Sources to M+ and VMS would REALLY HELP...d  A Can perhaps some of the current OpenVMS engineering team help out D here? Haven't source CDs been handed out at DECUS sessions before asE prizes? Surely  an ex DECcie of such standing as Mr Supnik could havei one. s  C I've taken the liberty (sorry Steve) of cc'ng this to Steve Hoffmanx and cross-posting to c.o.v.i   >y >/Bobx  F Guess you could always buy the VMS listing CD if Compaq don't take the hint.t -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:41:25 +0000y% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e2 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy8 Message-ID: <mkb27u8ao75st5lmv6i33fuaavtoi388e2@4ax.com>  0 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:06:57 +0000, Mark Redding  <grawlfang@ukhackers.net> wrote:  . >> >Sources to M+ and VMS would REALLY HELP... >-K >Back in the good old days one could get access to sources on microfilm, is. >that still the case ?  B Don't know about microfiche but the VMS source listing CD is still available as far as I know.f -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:57:52 -0500r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)/ Subject: Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote boothK Message-ID: <rdeininger-1802020757520001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>a  = In article <b6bf97d5.0202172156.3aaf99b6@posting.google.com>,p. merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) wrote:   >Hi 2 sort of related questions  >C >s >1-GF >i have a 4 vs 4000 vlcs 2 of which have 1 gig drives (internally) andE >vms 72 hobbist and as many layered prods as I could find. What I was4F >looking for,and may have allready under my nose , is a MOP server andB >some doc on setting up a remote boot server on one of the VLCs to  >server out a VMS 72 boot image.  @ VMS has 3 different components that can provide the MOP service:I 1. DECnet phase IV (classic decnet).  See the DECnet manuals, and look at-I cluster_config.com if you want to use MOP to boot VMS cluster satellites.o  @ 2. DECnet phase V (DECnet-plus).  Again, see the manuals, or use cluster_config.com.1  P 3. The LANCP utility.  Look in the system management utilities reference manual. Use CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM.2  E In all these cases, the command file does a number of things that you- _could_ do by hand.   I The LANCP method is somewhat prefered, since it works on any (recent) VMS>I system, with or without DECnet configured.  But if you are used to one oft# the others, they work just as well.s     >-2rD >I have a mopd on a linux box that I used to get BSD on a 3100 m38 I
 >also haveF >a decserver 100 and a decserver 200 how would I get boot images to myC >linux machine so they could boot also? . I have access to the boot. >images from a* >server at work alpha 1000 running 6.2-1    D Once you have MOP configured, it can boot various systems, includingE DECservers.  I dunno how you'd tie a linux box into this arrangement.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:01:57 -0700  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>p/ Subject: Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote boot & Message-ID: <3C713385.7090802@srv.net>   rob merritt wrote: > -2E > I have a mopd on a linux box that I used to get BSD on a 3100 m38 Il > also havenG > a decserver 100 and a decserver 200 how would I get boot images to my D > linux machine so they could boot also? . I have access to the boot > images from a-+ > server at work alpha 1000 running 6.2-1     = Did this once (for a lantronix). If mopd is set up correctly.c= you just need to copy (binary mode) the boot images images toE3 the correct place, and it works.  You may also wante= to get the 'latd' software also (sourceforge?) so you can use"9 the decserver to connect to the linux box, or vice versa.n   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:15:39 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ)= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202180715.3f01c71b@posting.google.com>   c William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote in message news:<3C6E8915.9AEF35D5@mailbag.com>...n [snip]H > There is a short FAQ at http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/faq.html thatI > would be a good place to start. Other things I'd like to see mentioned:e > G > 1) pointers to basic user tutorials - several good ones exist, but istJ > there a basic tutorial on the VMS HELP system? It's a great and powerfulG > system, but in it's own way it can be just as cryptic as the Unix mancH > system. Also pointers to various programming resources would be good -    B My gripe with VMS HELP: Why does it go back to Topic after listingE subtopics for the topic you got right but with a misguessed subtopic?n Example:    : $ HELP SET ASDFs     ? SETe%   Sorry, no documentation on SET ASDFn  .  v#   Additional information available:e  iB   Description           ACCOUNTING ACL        AUDIT      BROADCAST<   CARD_READER           CLUSTER    COMMAND    CONTROL    DAY=   DEFAULT    DEVICE     DIRECTORY  DISPLAY    ENTRY      FILEf;   HOST       KEY        LOGINS     MAGTAPE    MESSAGE    ONb@   OUTPUT_RATE           PASSWORD   PREFIX     PRINTER    PROCESS0   PROMPT     PROTECTION QUEUE      RESTART_VALUE?   RIGHTS_LIST           RMS_DEFAULT           SECURITY   SERVERH?   SYMBOL     TERMINAL   TIME       UIC        VERIFY     VOLUME.
   WORKING_SETz  w@ Topic? ACL ! So I say ACL. Nothing wrong with that, right? Then:  t       Sorry, no documentation on ACL  l  e#   Additional information available:-   @   :=         =          @          ACCOUNTING ALLOCATE   ANALYZE?   APPEND     ASSIGN     ATTACH     AUTHORIZE  AUTOGEN    BACKUP  [...]k   WRITEd  a Topic? $k  aF It just listed the subtopics of SET! Why does it go back to "Topic?"?!   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmany afeldman!~~;~~!gfigroup.come   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:21:37 +0100 (MET)h9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n> Subject: Re: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ); Message-ID: <01KEFC6D8ZG28ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>D  D > My gripe with VMS HELP: Why does it go back to Topic after listingG > subtopics for the topic you got right but with a misguessed subtopic?z  A You mean it's supposed to know that you mis-typed ACL but didn't l
 mis-type SET?h   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 10:30:33 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)> Subject: Re: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ)= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202181030.479352ea@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KEFC6D8ZG28ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...F > > My gripe with VMS HELP: Why does it go back to Topic after listingI > > subtopics for the topic you got right but with a misguessed subtopic?t > C > You mean it's supposed to know that you mis-typed ACL but didn't o > mis-type SET?,  B It *does* know and acknowledges that fact because it lists all theF subtopics for SET. So why not prompt for the subtopics it just listed?D Instead it prompts for "Topic", even though it clearly knows you got the SET part right.r   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanu' afeldman;13no2no124no41234;gfigroup.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:45:46 +0100M$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compas/ Message-ID: <8X4c8.38$021.1944@news.get2net.dk>h  K Barn (child) is also scottish, but I cannot recall whether it migrated from  or to scandinavia.   Dweeb.  @ "Terje Mathisen" <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> wrote in message' news:3C700315.3AB92F4E@hda.hydro.com...0 > Steinar Haug wrote:m > >M > > [Terje Mathisen]I > > Ah, but we *do* have "hardnakket". We also have "barn" (for child), I.8 > > assume this is the same root as the Geordie "bairn". >cI > Steinar is right, hardnakket/hrdnakket is a common norwegian word, notaG > recognizing it the first time hopefully doesn't indicate the onset ofy > senility.t >  > :-(t >g > Terjet > --" > - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>B > "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:13:01 +0000s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>iY Subject: Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars   (was e8 Message-ID: <io927uc35a7k1tdb73uuee7se8mui83oac@4ax.com>  - On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:04:59 +0000, Roy Omondb$ <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:   >- >-I >... and surely it must be at the bottom of the bucket, which should makeo) >harvesting the stuff relatively easy :-)l  D Well it is the case (I believe) that water at higher latitudes has aC higher percentage of heavy water and that at the equator the least. ' Presumably due to the centrifuge effect7  N >I once had to transport a large bottle of the stuff from Germany into France.B >Now I understand why the border patrols were so, ahem, "touchy" !  F Ignore that black helicopter circling overhead. There is no such thing as a black helicopter :)   >y
 >Roy Omond >Blue Bubble Ltd.  >V   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 08:54:11 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)OY Subject: Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was Ret3 Message-ID: <vSD+k0InadER@eisner.encompasserve.org>.  n In article <343f30ae.0202180622.1cde3f2e@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  G > Deuterium is not heavy water. The formula for water is H2O, as we all-> > know. There are three isotopes of hydrogen: protium (regularH > hydrogen), deuterium, and tritium. Regular hydrogen is by far the mostH > common (I believe 99%+, I'll look it up at home later) and consists of > one proton and one electron.  = So somewhat less than 1% of the hydrogen atoms are deuterium.   H > Bottom line: Deuterium is the heavy form of hydrogen because it has anG > extra neutron. Water that contains deuterium atoms for some or all of + > its hydrogen atoms is called heavy water.y  C It would seem all water contains deuterium for _some_ of its atoms.   C There must be some percentage at which it qualifies as heavy water.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:04:59 +00002- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> Y Subject: Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was Re 1 Message-ID: <3C71181B.9791F609@BlueBubble.UK.Com>n   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  p > In article <343f30ae.0202180622.1cde3f2e@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: >9I > > Deuterium is not heavy water. The formula for water is H2O, as we all @ > > know. There are three isotopes of hydrogen: protium (regularJ > > hydrogen), deuterium, and tritium. Regular hydrogen is by far the mostJ > > common (I believe 99%+, I'll look it up at home later) and consists of  > > one proton and one electron. >a? > So somewhat less than 1% of the hydrogen atoms are deuterium.o >tJ > > Bottom line: Deuterium is the heavy form of hydrogen because it has anI > > extra neutron. Water that contains deuterium atoms for some or all ofs- > > its hydrogen atoms is called heavy water.  > E > It would seem all water contains deuterium for _some_ of its atoms.  >mE > There must be some percentage at which it qualifies as heavy water.h  H ... and surely it must be at the bottom of the bucket, which should make( harvesting the stuff relatively easy :-)  M I once had to transport a large bottle of the stuff from Germany into France. A Now I understand why the border patrols were so, ahem, "touchy" !d  	 Roy Omond- Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 06:22:03 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)Y Subject: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was Re: "Ch= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202180622.1cde3f2e@posting.google.com>   a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C70770E.93EA7BC3@videotron.ca>...C > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:L > > I'm told that Deuterium is readily available from sea water. Not being a. > > chemist, I am unfamiliar with the process. > P > Is deurerium "heavy water" ? If so, there is a plant that produces/produced itI > about 150km east of Montteal at Bcancour (next to Qubec's token CandutO > nuclear plant which uses heavy water to control uranium reaction. Not sure ifh( > the plant is still operational though.   Short version: h  ? Deuterium is the heavy form of hydrogen because it has an extratC neutron. Water that contains deuterium atoms for some or all of itst hydrogen is called heavy water.   
 Long version:u  E Deuterium is not heavy water. The formula for water is H2O, as we all < know. There are three isotopes of hydrogen: protium (regularF hydrogen), deuterium, and tritium. Regular hydrogen is by far the mostF common (I believe 99%+, I'll look it up at home later) and consists of one proton and one electron.  F Deuterium consists of a proton, a neutron, and an electron. The protonB and neutron are bound together into a nucleus called the deuteron.F Since the neutron is almost identical in mass to the proton, and sinceC the electron has about 1/1836th the mass of a proton, the deuteriumsE form of hydrogen is very close to twice as heavy as the regular form.a  A Tritium, which is radioactive, has yet another neutron, and has ak! half-life of about 13 years IIRC.   D Now, the extra neutrons have no effect on the chemical properties ofD an element. They just affect the mass. (Atoms of an element that areD chemically the same, but differ in the number of neutrons are called@ isotopes of that element.) Now heavy water is just water that isD enriched in water molecules that contain deuterium atoms in place ofE the ordinary hydrogen. One or both of the hydrogen atoms in any givens5 molecule of water may be replaced by deuterium atoms.t  D Chemically, it is the same, but it is heavier because each deuterium? atom conatins a neutron while a regular hydrogen atom does not.l  F Bottom line: Deuterium is the heavy form of hydrogen because it has anE extra neutron. Water that contains deuterium atoms for some or all of ) its hydrogen atoms is called heavy water.<   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanM afeldman%$^^$#%%!gfigroup.comn   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.096 ************************