0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 19 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 97      Contents: Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows"  Re: "Crashless Windows" : Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q): Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q): Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q)& Bounce mail messages are bouncing back* RE: Bounce mail messages are bouncing back Re: CLI$_PARSE problem. Re: Clustering article in DRJ - attn Rob Lyons Re: CXX install problem  Diff SCSI cntrlrs  Re: Diff SCSI cntrlrs  RE: Diff SCSI cntrlrs  Re: Diff SCSI cntrlrs  Re: File renaming  Re: File renaming 
 File renaming  Re: File renaming  Re: File renaming  Re: File renaming 7 Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.  FW: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies? ? Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?  Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products 8 Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime8 RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime, Re: MAILERRORS.COM (was Re: DCL procedure's)' Re: Mounting CD takes VMS 7.2-1 down...  Re: Network Printer problems Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???  Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1 Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1 Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: PPP for TCPIP on VAX ? Re: PPP for TCPIP on VAX ? Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ P Re: Scandinavian Language(s) was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced  vetera) Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy  Slashdot discussion of Itanium Re: Software Question P Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  P Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  & Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote boot& Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote boot5 Re: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ) P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      comP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compaP RE: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compaP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compaP RE: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars   (was P Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was Re  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:05:19 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"8 Message-ID: <Pfcc8.3953$ro5.952258@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  $ That would be DECwindows on OpenVMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:57:26 -0500 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"$ Message-ID: <3c716ac3$1@news.si.com>  I >Well, I still have my student programs on 80-column cards from 1978. Got   >nothin' to read 'em on, though.  K There was a time when I didn't need a mechanical reader.  I could recognize D Hollerith and read the punch cards myself.  Do I feel old sometimes! --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:32:39 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C71ACCE.4B8649B2@fsi.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net...  > > Robert Deininger wrote:  > > > A > > > In article <3C6DDC29.52674F54@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" $ > > > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: > > > I > > > >As to pollution, e-mail me privately (anyone!) and I'll share some L > > > >long-lost research (*NOT* mine! let me make that unmistakably clear!)I > > > >with you. It's possible today, and it's been possible for going on M > > > >twenty(20) years - without tons of batteries and without combustion of N > > > >any kind. One of the necessary elements is radioactive (deuterium), the > > > >other (gallium) is not. > > > ; > > > Deuterium is not radioactive.  Not even a little bit.  > > ? > > Well - I'll be - maybe that means no NRC approval. Hhmmm...  > K > Unfortunately, that doesn't help matters.  If the description you gave is M > anywhere nearly accurate, file this marvel away in the 'crock' file next to , > cold fusion and perpetual motion machines.  @ Well, a certain amount of skepticism *IS* helpful and healthful.  A In this case, however, the effect was reproduced independently by H friends of mine from my younger days who were fortunate enough to have aF college education. One has a PhD in nulcear chemistry from MIT and theG other a master's in some branch of organic chemistry (I never did know, @ precisely). Anyway, both of them confirmed that Deuterium in the@ presence of Gallium (or is it the other way around?) produces anH electrical current. I no longer have any details of their work, but theyH did confirm that yes, it is possible, at least in theory. Neither raised- a question re: Deuterium vs. common Hydrogen.   ? More than that I do not know, nor am I equipped to remember it.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:41:57 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C71AEEF.380F1D01@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > & > That would be DECwindows on OpenVMS.  F Dunno. VAXman needs only run Mozilla to trash DECwindows on his Alpha," unless he's found/fixed the cause.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:46:44 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C71AFD9.48DDE93D@fsi.net>    David Beatty wrote:  > 7 > On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 04:05:52 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > > E > >As to pollution, e-mail me privately (anyone!) and I'll share some H > >long-lost research (*NOT* mine! let me make that unmistakably clear!)E > >with you. It's possible today, and it's been possible for going on I > >twenty(20) years - without tons of batteries and without combustion of J > >any kind. One of the necessary elements is radioactive (deuterium), the > >other (gallium) is not. > >  > > > You realize that today's internal combustion engine puts outB > a fraction of the pollutants that the older ones do, 5% compared@ > to the early 60s.  Also, most newer cars are built to regulate= > themselves quite nicely and rarely have an exhaust problem. : > Most pollutants emitted by cars are from either older or > poorly-tuned vehicles. > ; > Also remember what the car replaced: a horse, which emits - > on the order of 40 lbs. or manure a day ...   B I believe the issue for which a solution is sought to be two fold:  0 1. CO emissions (so-called "greenhouse" gasses).  = 2. Consumption of vast quantities of "fossil" fuel (petroleum 
 distillates).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:51:18 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C71B0EC.D5F0BD3E@fsi.net>    Brian Tillman wrote: > K > >Well, I still have my student programs on 80-column cards from 1978. Got " > >nothin' to read 'em on, though. > M > There was a time when I didn't need a mechanical reader.  I could recognize F > Hollerith and read the punch cards myself.  Do I feel old sometimes!  A Well, yeah - I mean there's the three "zones" and the 0 through 9 G punches. Correspond more or less directly to the binary representations ! of %X00 through %XC9, don't they?   ! Yeah - it's been, well, 23 years!    ...ya little whippersnapper!   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:20:01 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows", Message-ID: <3C71B62E.30A0FAA8@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:H > As I understand fuel-cells, at least from reading stuff from NASA, theI > process somehow uses Hydrogen to process CO2 into breathable oxygen and 8 > some water vapor. Not sure what happens to the Carbon.  N H2 and O2 are combined with a catalyst. Produces water and electricity.  ExtraA oxygen, and produced water are used for life support in shuttle.    N Technology has been commercialised by a few companies, notably Ballard SystemsK of Vancouver Canada. A few city buses run on power cells. Mercedes also has , some cars powered by it (or will soon have).  K The issue is the lack of facilities for refueling and mass production of H2  and O2.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:40:54 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Re: "Crashless Windows"' Message-ID: <3C71AEAD.FED5212D@fsi.net>    Robert Deininger wrote:  > = > In article <3C706EE3.E2B87A5C@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"   > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >Robert Deininger wrote: > >> > : > >> Deuterium is not radioactive.  Not even a little bit. > > > > >Well - I'll be - maybe that means no NRC approval. Hhmmm... > E > It's still a controlled substance, since heavy water is a wonderful G > neutron moderator.  So it's a favorite for building nuclear reactors. K > Comes in handy for hydrogen bombs too, but not much is needed compared to D > a reactor.  So the government keeps tabs on anyone acquiring large
 > quantities.  > H > There's no radiation hazard, but you can't escape the red tape hazard.  G I'm sure the miltary would take a dim view of Joe Average Citizen being E in possession of one of the necessary elements for building a certain 8 type of reactor. Probably explains what happened to him.  N > >> I would be interested in your long-lost research.  Especially if you knowO > >> of inexpensive sources of deuterium and gallium, which are quite expensive ( > >> compared to lead and sulfuric acid. > > K > >Problem with lead and sulfuric acid is that you need large quantities of  > >both. > > H > >The reaction in question here does not "consume" the reagents, in theK > >sense that they are not rapidly destroyed or converted to other forms or 9 > >substances, they are not required in large quantities.  >  > Ok.  Sounds like a catalyst.   Could be. Dunno...  E > >I first saw this info. in the Elgin (Illinois) Daily Courier News, I > >circa. 1983/84. A brief write-up also appeared in a similar time frame I > >in the Chicago Sun Times. As the 'Times reported it, it was discovered G > >by a fellow by the name of Rory Johnson, formerly of GE, an engineer " > >holding a multitude of patents. > . > Ah, the old "multitude of patents" gambit...  E The paper cited a number of his patents (by number) while employed at E GE. If I still the article, you could look them yourself. We probably 5 still use some of his inventions today, in some form.   & > >Allegedly, he discovered the effectF > >quite by accident, similar to the way another fellow discovered theI > >effect in use in the "magnetron tube", the "heart" of what we now call  > >the microwave oven. > J > The magnetron might have been an accidental discovery, but it still tookL > an emergency research program to develop practical radar for the war.  TheE > Manhattan Project was bigger, but I think the radar project came in 	 > second.  > 3 > >He developed a process to harness and excite the G > >effect such that a motor similar to that found in a typical electric H > >fork lift truck could be coupled to a modified automatic transmissionD > >producing torque roughly equivalent to a normally aspirated 490ciH > >(roughy 7 litre) engine. The entire power plant weighed somewhat moreG > >than what today would be a 3.8 litre engine (circa. 250ci or so) and J > >easily fit under the hood what was then a full size car. The story saidK > >that relatively small quantities of both reagents - less than a kilogram H > >of each - would last the equivalent of 10,000 miles. The story didn'tJ > >say if that allowed for powering headlights, air conditioning, electric( > >heat or other high-power accessories. > L > Not enough here to comment on the process.  As a wild guess, it might have > been some kind of fuel cell. > I > Fuel cells have been well known for many decades, but not practical for F > cars.  The popular press has had them "a few years" from large-scale+ > deployment for as long as I can remember.   F As I understand fuel-cells, at least from reading stuff from NASA, theG process somehow uses Hydrogen to process CO2 into breathable oxygen and 6 some water vapor. Not sure what happens to the Carbon.  G As I recall, the two elements in intimate contact produce an electrical 0 current. Beyond that, I couldn't begin to guess.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:52:27 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> C Subject: Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q) + Message-ID: <3C715B7B.85BF89F0@caltech.edu>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:   N > Given the relative value of CPQ, HWP, and DELL stock, DELL looks pretty goodI > right now. But I wouldn't belly up to the bar, I have too many concerns N > about how Dell will make its way into the enterprise. My opinion only, happy > investing!  M Why does DELL  need to go into enterprise computing any time soon?   They are  still N making plenty of $$$ in laptops and desktops and continue to take market shareO from their competitors.  That's exactly the opposite of the Q where the profits  fromH the enterprise sector are used to prop up the money losing PC operation.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:32:01 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>C Subject: Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q) 9 Message-ID: <5xdc8.3968$ro5.1004726@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3C715B7B.85BF89F0@caltech.edu...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > K > > Given the relative value of CPQ, HWP, and DELL stock, DELL looks pretty  goodK > > right now. But I wouldn't belly up to the bar, I have too many concerns J > > about how Dell will make its way into the enterprise. My opinion only, happy  > > investing! > K > Why does DELL  need to go into enterprise computing any time soon?   They  are  > still J > making plenty of $$$ in laptops and desktops and continue to take market share I > from their competitors.  That's exactly the opposite of the Q where the  profits  > fromJ > the enterprise sector are used to prop up the money losing PC operation.  F Yeah, well, ya check out the margins on peecees lately? If they are soL great, I am sure that a fine job awaits right down the hall from Mikie Dell.K Heck, he's never fired anyone, and continues to add staff at 7.500 per day. L Or is it 75,000 per day. Sounds to me like you can't go wrong being a Wintel OEM.  L Silly little companies like IBM think otherwise, but we all know how foolishL THEY are! After all, with a stock value flirting at $100, they must be doing something wrong.   ROTFLW   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2002 21:16:00 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)vC Subject: Re: Bank Austria Analysts recommend Dell stock (over HP/Q) ' Message-ID: <a4rqug$qtl$1@joe.rice.edu>s  ( David Mathog (mathog@caltech.edu) wrote: : "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  :sL : > Given the relative value of CPQ, HWP, and DELL stock, DELL looks pretty G : > good right now. But I wouldn't belly up to the bar, I have too manySM : > concerns about how Dell will make its way into the enterprise. My opinion  : > only, happy investing! :mL : Why does DELL  need to go into enterprise computing any time soon?   They N : are still making plenty of $$$ in laptops and desktops and continue to take M : market share from their competitors.  That's exactly the opposite of the Q  M : where the profits from the enterprise sector are used to prop up the money   : losing PC operation.  7 And Dell is offshore outsourcing product development...f  :    Dell to increase development capability in Asia-Pacific4    http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?IR=7    N&ClassID=100&datePublish=2002/02/18&pages=04&seq=24   F    David Tzeng, Taipei; Willie Teng, DigiTimes.com [Monday 18 February    2002]  H   "Dell Computer will gradually downsize its development division in itsF    US headquarters and expand development teams in Taiwan and China inH    2002. Besides continuing to outsource from contract manufacturers, toE    further reduce costs, Dell has begun handing development rights toA    teams outside of the US.(  E    In the past, the headquarters' development division controlled allSA    product development, while the company's ODMs (original designaI    manufacturers) and foreign development teams merely served as support.eD    Dell handed the development rights for the SmartStep, a low-priceG    desktop, to its Taiwanese team in the third quarter of 2001, markingeF    the first time a team outside of the headquarters received complete$    development control of a product.  I    Taiwan and China host Dell's only two development teams outside of the E    US. Each team currently employs about 15 people, and the number ofe@    employees is expected to each increase to 50 by year-end. TheH    Taiwanese team concentrates on notebook and server development and isI    responsible for about 30% of Dell's notebook development projects. ThesI    Chinese team will relocate from Beijing to Shanghai this year, and itsr)    main operation is desktop development.D  H    Dell is expected to continue reducing its workforce from the previousI    40,000 employees to 30,000, sources said, and research and developmente:    staff will be the main focus of a new round of layoffs.  @    Dell's revenue in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2002 (NovemberA    2001-January 2002) slipped 7% year-on-year to US$8.06 billion, I    according to the company. Net profit in the same period reached US$456eG    million or US$0.17 per share, up from US$434 million and US$0.16 pernH    share from a year earlier. The company fetched US$1.25 billion in netE    profit in fiscal 2002, compared to US$2.18 billion in fiscal 2001.f  E    International Data Corporation (IDC) pointed out that Dell was the I    only PC company to see a rise in market share last year. The company'stF    market share grew from 11.7% in 2000 to 14.2% in 2001, despite a 5%2    contraction in the global PC market, IDC said."    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:47:23 -0800# From: sol@adldata.com (Sol Gongola)M/ Subject: Bounce mail messages are bouncing backs< Message-ID: <a7337236.0202181247.a9114ea@posting.google.com>  " We have vms 7.2-1 tcpip 5.1 eco 3.? We have a problem with rejected bounce messages filling up our cC postmaster account. We tried "Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: FALSE"  B in smtp.config but it made receiving mail from legitimate senders  difficult. s   The scenario is as follows:f- We disable user accounts from receiving mail. F Mail arrives to these users from spam site with invalid reply address./ VMS bounces mail back to invalid reply address. 4 We receive bounce message to the postmaster account.  F Is there a way to not send back a bounce message if the reply address D is not valid, or a way to detect the rebounced message and kill it?   ' Extract of sample mail messages follow: F VMS smtp sends reject message with the following to the reply address.)   ---- Transcript of session follows ----iF   %%%%%%%%%%%%                    9-FEB-2002 16:28:10.80  %%%%%%%%%%%%&   %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user BILL'   ---- Recipients of this delivery -----"   <BILL@MAIL.domain.COM> (bounced)"   ---- Unsent message follows ----1   Return-Path: opt-in@mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.neti7   Received: from opt.edirectnetwork.net (66.115.47.118)t?            by mail.domain.com (V5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha);i(           Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:28:08 -0500E   Received: (qmail 11035 invoked by uid 0); 9 Feb 2002 21:07:52 -0000 !   Date: 9 Feb 2002 21:07:52 -0000dF   Message-ID: <20020209210752.11033.qmail@mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.net>   TO: BILL@MAIL.domain.COM  8 we receive back a message to the postmaster account with&   From:   SMTP%"TCPIP$SMTP@domain.com"   To:     TCPIP$SMTP   CC:w   Subj:   Returned maild  '   Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:12:48 -0500 *   Message-Id: <02021217124844@adldata.com>   From: TCPIP$SMTP@domain.COMe   To: TCPIP$SMTP   Subject: Returned mail  )   ---- Transcript of session follows ----t  :   %TCPIP-E-SMTP_UNREACHABL, cannot connect to remote host, mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.nettE   -SYSTEM-F-CONNECFAIL, connect to network object timed-out or failedc  "   ---- Unsent message follows ----   ...o   ...n   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:07:03 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e3 Subject: RE: Bounce mail messages are bouncing backh9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGELGECAA.tom@kednos.com>d  H If it is always the same spammers, have you tried putting their IPs into Bad-Clients: ip1,ip2, etc.   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Sol Gongola [mailto:sol@adldata.com]* > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:47 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comr1 > Subject: Bounce mail messages are bouncing backf >  > $ > We have vms 7.2-1 tcpip 5.1 eco 3.A > We have a problem with rejected bounce messages filling up our  E > postmaster account. We tried "Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: FALSE" mD > in smtp.config but it made receiving mail from legitimate senders 
 > difficult.   >  > The scenario is as follows:S/ > We disable user accounts from receiving mail. H > Mail arrives to these users from spam site with invalid reply address.1 > VMS bounces mail back to invalid reply address.-6 > We receive bounce message to the postmaster account. > H > Is there a way to not send back a bounce message if the reply address F > is not valid, or a way to detect the rebounced message and kill it?  > ) > Extract of sample mail messages follow:nH > VMS smtp sends reject message with the following to the reply address.+ >   ---- Transcript of session follows ----nH >   %%%%%%%%%%%%                    9-FEB-2002 16:28:10.80  %%%%%%%%%%%%( >   %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user BILL) >   ---- Recipients of this delivery ----e$ >   <BILL@MAIL.domain.COM> (bounced)$ >   ---- Unsent message follows ----3 >   Return-Path: opt-in@mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.netd9 >   Received: from opt.edirectnetwork.net (66.115.47.118)rA >            by mail.domain.com (V5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha); * >           Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:28:08 -0500G >   Received: (qmail 11035 invoked by uid 0); 9 Feb 2002 21:07:52 -0000.# >   Date: 9 Feb 2002 21:07:52 -0000 H >   Message-ID: <20020209210752.11033.qmail@mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.net> >   TO: BILL@MAIL.domain.COM > : > we receive back a message to the postmaster account with( >   From:   SMTP%"TCPIP$SMTP@domain.com" >   To:     TCPIP$SMTP >   CC:  >   Subj:   Returned mailm > ) >   Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:12:48 -0500 , >   Message-Id: <02021217124844@adldata.com> >   From: TCPIP$SMTP@domain.COMr >   To: TCPIP$SMTP >   Subject: Returned mail > + >   ---- Transcript of session follows ----o > < >   %TCPIP-E-SMTP_UNREACHABL, cannot connect to remote host, > mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.netaG >   -SYSTEM-F-CONNECFAIL, connect to network object timed-out or failedo > $ >   ---- Unsent message follows ---- >   ...' >   ...e >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:50:01 -0800eC From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com.nospam>- Subject: Re: CLI$_PARSE problem.0 Message-ID: <3C71A139.EC848132@intel.com.nospam>  
 cuz wrote:   > I have the following problem:  >f5 > I am making a call from Fortran/77 code as follows:. >// > OPCARD = '/FILENAME=JOECUZ.TXT /READ /TYPE=2'a6 > STATUS = CLI$DCL_PARSE( %REF(OPCARD), %REF(ATABLE) ) >eN > The status returned by the parser is "CLI$_NOCOMD" (Routine Terminated.  YouG > entered a null string in response to a prompt from the prompt_routine  > argument).  B     In addition to what others have alread said (sorry to join theB thread late...), I was surprized to see the %REF()'s in your call.@ The documentation on CLI$DCL_PARSE clearly states that the first@ argument is passed by _descriptor_, which is the default passing@ mechanism in VMS Fortran for character variables, and the secondB uses the "usual" method, an address passed by reference.  AssumingB you've declared OPCARD as some variable of type CHARACTER (or else4 the compiler ought to complain), and assuming you've  #     $ SET COMMAND/OBJECT ATABLE.CLDt  F on your .CLD file (which I guess would want a MODULE ATABLE statement,D and a DEFINE VERB MYVERB statement), your Fortran source should look something like this:       EXTERNAL ATABLE:     CHARACTER*80 OPCARD      INTEGER CLI$DCL_PARSE1     ...t1     OPCARD = '/FILENAME=JOECUZ.TXT /READ /TYPE=2'C,     STATUS = CLI$DCL_PARSE( OPCARD, ATABLE )     ...y   --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldi! F20 Automation VMS System Supportl kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.coml   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:51:01 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>7 Subject: Re: Clustering article in DRJ - attn Rob LyonsdA Message-ID: <p2cc8.95024$Re2.7848621@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:9n727uoplh4l5h8ls3ovfg4d7gi9qf55na@4ax.com...: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:48:40 +0100 (MET), Phillip Helbig- > <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote:m >a > >uD > >If what follows was the actual article, strange that "VMS" occurs > >nowhere in it.  :-( >fB > Very strange isn't it. An article on VMS clustering that doesn't5 > mention VMS. I've heard of stealth marketing but...-  D It's not so strange if you realize that the article is not about VMSD clustering per se but about the kind of clustering that VMS (and nowJ multiple other systems) can do - especially when you include those systemsK that provide function fully equivalent to direct concurrent disk access (ateK least insofar as disaster-tolerant configurability goes) via fast fail-overd mechanisms.o   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Feb 2002 05:46:35 GMT5 From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess)e  Subject: Re: CXX install problem. Message-ID: <a4sorr$ato$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  ^ In article <3C6EFB0E.9DBD5D2B@mailbag.com>, William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> writes:F >I downloaded cxx056c for Vax from the Compaq web site. I have runningH >Hobbyist VMS 7.2 and have C 6.0-001 from that distribution installed. IG >have also installed and loaded the PAK for CXX.  However, when I go to I >run vmsinstal, it grinds for a bit, says the release notes are installedEH >in sys$help and grinds a bit more, printing out the copywright notice.  >s >Then I get: >e, >%system-f-nologname, no logical name match + >%system-f-nologname, no logical name matcht+ >%system-f-nologname, no logical name matchd@ >%vmsinstal-e-install, The installation of CXX V5.6 has failed.  >eC >And I'm back at the DCL prompt. I tried redownloading the file andeI >trying to install an earlier version (from the June 1997 SPL I have) andaF >have gotten the same results each time. I did not see anything in the7 >release notes that gave me any more of a clue either.   >  >Any hints greatly appreciated.r >s >Thanks, >William >--   ( You might try "options D" to get a clue.: But first do  SET HOST 0/LOG so the output goes to a file.  
 Good luck.   Ian Burgess  University of Queensland I.Burgess[at]its.uq.edu.au www.its.uq.edu.aui   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:40:56 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r Subject: Diff SCSI cntrlrs9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELFECAA.tom@kednos.com>i  K Is there a URL for a list of commercially avaialable PCI differential SCSI l contollers supported by VMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:09:31 -0500 1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>i Subject: Re: Diff SCSI cntrlrs/ Message-ID: <u739dlcq1he6f0@news.supernews.com>c   Yeso   Here's the list:  @ KZPSA-BB QLA1020a Differential Wide SCSI $199 in stock at Island@ KZPBA-CB QLA1041 Differential Ultra Wide $449 in stock at Island   :0)    David Turner   -- Island Computers US Corp.s 2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404o Tel: 877 636 4332r International: 001 912 447 6622   Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.neto www.hpaq.net      , Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELFECAA.tom@kednos.com... L > Is there a URL for a list of commercially avaialable PCI differential SCSI > contollers supported by VMS?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:49:45 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>n Subject: RE: Diff SCSI cntrlrs9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOELOECAA.tom@kednos.com>   D That's it?  Is there a performance penalty with the cheaper  one andF an ultra to wide adapter?  Ever locate that soft switch for the 433au?   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Island (hpaq.net) [mailto:dbturner@islandco.com]) > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 5:10 PMk > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi  > Subject: Re: Diff SCSI cntrlrs >  >  > Yesv >  > Here's the list: > B > KZPSA-BB QLA1020a Differential Wide SCSI $199 in stock at IslandB > KZPBA-CB QLA1041 Differential Ultra Wide $449 in stock at Island >  > :0)i >  > David Turner >  > -- > Island Computers US Corp.p > 2700 Gregory Streeti > Savannah GA 31404a > Tel: 877 636 4332i! > International: 001 912 447 6622o" > Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 > dbturner@hpaq.netr > www.hpaq.net >  >  > . > Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message5 > news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELFECAA.tom@kednos.com... = > > Is there a URL for a list of commercially avaialable PCI " > differential SCSIn  > > contollers supported by VMS? >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:15:07 -0600hC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>s Subject: Re: Diff SCSI cntrlrsH Message-ID: <craig.berry-3D7DF3.23150718022002@news.directvinternet.com>  9 In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELFECAA.tom@kednos.com>, %  "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote:h  M > Is there a URL for a list of commercially avaialable PCI differential SCSI n > contollers supported by VMS?  F The answer depends rather heavily on the definitions of "commercially G available" and "supported."  If "supported" means officially supported t@ by Compaq, then the list is in the OpenVMS Software Performance H Description (SPD), which I believe is referenced somewhere in the FAQ.  F If you choose this definition of supported, then you will necessarily F have to define "commercially available" as orderable from Compaq or a B Compaq reseller or scrounged from an auction or other source that - specifies the appropriate Compaq part number.a  F If the definition of "supported" is that a driver exists and the card E appears to work with OpenVMS, then the list is a tiny bit longer but  G still very limited.  Some Symbios Logic cards should work in principle HF but they generally don't if they are manufacturer-branded rather than H DEC/Compaq-branded because the driver shuts itself down when the card's = firmware tells the driver you have not paid DEC prices for a lF DEC-branded card. The Qlogic driver does not appear to have a similar E restriction and I've seen a Qlogic QLA1020 work just fine.  I'm told lA the Qlogic QLA1040B is identical to the DEC KZPBA, but I haven't eH verified that myself (note: I think KZPBA is single-ended, but there is G some differential version -- KZPCM?).  I've also heard or read in this sE forum that nothing recent from Qlogic -- such as the 1080 or 1280 --  H works with OpenVMS.  I think it's been quite a few years since anything G by Adaptec worked with OpenVMS, including the ubiquitous 2940.  As far pD as I can tell, there has been no new SCSI support for OpenVMS since G Compaq acquired DEC four years ago, and for that matter no support for tH the majority of Compaq-branded SCSI cards, though I'd love to be proven  wrong.  H If you are running a large and/or Compaq-supported system, you may just G have to swallow hard and pay four times market price for four-year-old sC technology; in fact, you'd be a fool not to.  If you are running a 4F hobbyist or small, self-supported system, you'd be a fool not to seek " alternatives, few though they are.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:04:26 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: File renaming, Message-ID: <3C715E42.B64FA074@videotron.ca>   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:d > J > I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding RENAME,@ > and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY. > E > One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's whatd  $ $COPY FOO.X node"user pass"::".PLAN"  J DECNET allows "foreign file names" when enclosed in quotes and attempts no file manipulation.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:54:34 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>d Subject: Re: File renaming6 Message-ID: <20020218195434.17929.qmail@gacracker.org>  C On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >> tK >> I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding RENAME,5B >> and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY.  >>  F >> One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's what >m% >$COPY FOO.X node"user pass"::".PLAN"l >lK >DECNET allows "foreign file names" when enclosed in quotes and attempts not >file manipulation.   G OK, I'll take your word that one works - I don't have DECnet installed.4     Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.netu   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:00:34 -00004 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> Subject: File renaming6 Message-ID: <20020218190034.16422.qmail@gacracker.org>  H I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding RENAME,> and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY.  C One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's what  happens:   $ rename FOO.X .PLAN $ dir *.PLAN   Directory USER_DISK:[DC]   FOO.PLAN;1             Total of 1 file.  * Even rename FOO.X to [].PLAN doesn't work.  I Does anyone know of a way to achieve this, or is this a quirk of VMS thatl9 you can't make files nameless except at initial creation?i     Doc. -- y6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:19:03 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: File renaming' Message-ID: <3C71B7B0.E8052557@fsi.net>r   "Doc.Cypher" wrote:  > J > I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding RENAME,@ > and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY. > E > One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's whatv
 > happens: >  > $ rename FOO.X .PLAN > $ dir *.PLAN >  > Directory USER_DISK:[DC] >  > FOO.PLAN;1 >  > Total of 1 file. > , > Even rename FOO.X to [].PLAN doesn't work. > K > Does anyone know of a way to achieve this, or is this a quirk of VMS thaty; > you can't make files nameless except at initial creation?s    I guess not. This works, though:  7 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ copy nla0:,sys$login:login.com .planrD %COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DKA0:[DDACHTERA].PLAN;2 (0 records)9 %COPY-S-APPENDED, DKA0:[DDACHTERA]LOGIN.COM;1 appended to- DKA0:[DDACHTERA].PLAN; 2 (18 records)  " For what little it may be worth...   -- L David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:32:06 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: File renamingA Message-ID: <GOic8.99287$Aw2.6711290@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>a  J "Doc.Cypher" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message0 news:20020218195434.17929.qmail@gacracker.org...E > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  > >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: > >>E > >> I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding, RENAME,0C > >> and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY.m > >>H > >> One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's what > >r' > >$COPY FOO.X node"user pass"::".PLAN"E > >_J > >DECNET allows "foreign file names" when enclosed in quotes and attempts no > >file manipulation.c >oI > OK, I'll take your word that one works - I don't have DECnet installed.   G This may well reflect the underlying RMS behavior (certainly in RENAME,1L given that it maps directly to an RMS operation; if RMS-32 never implementedH an RMS-level copy function, then the utility function has a hand in thatF one).  IIRC, RMS interprets the absence of the file name in the outputL RENAME spec as a request to default the corresponding element from the input spec.m  I It has been a very long time, but you might try placing quotes around the4L (fully-qualified?  there's a hint of a memory about being able to quote justK the filename portion, so you might try it both ways) output spec to inhibitiL such substitution:  you may not need to use DECnet to achieve the result youI want (i.e., the RMS parser may recognize this construct itself).  AnotheriI possibility would be to create a logical name to use for the output spec,fI but my dim recollection is that logicals get expanded before missing pathtF elements are moved over and if that's indeed the case this won't help.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Feb 2002 05:29:49 GMT5 From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess)  Subject: Re: File renaming. Message-ID: <a4snsd$4fa$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  [ In article <3C71B7B0.E8052557@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:n >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: >> fK >> I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding RENAME, A >> and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY.% >>  F >> One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's what >> happens:  >> B >> $ rename FOO.X .PLANn >> $ dir *.PLANs >> e >> Directory USER_DISK:[DC]n >> :
 >> FOO.PLAN;18 >> a >> Total of 1 file.e >> d- >> Even rename FOO.X to [].PLAN doesn't work.  >>  L >> Does anyone know of a way to achieve this, or is this a quirk of VMS that< >> you can't make files nameless except at initial creation? > ! >I guess not. This works, though:  > 8 >DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ copy nla0:,sys$login:login.com .planE >%COPY-S-COPIED, _NLA0: copied to DKA0:[DDACHTERA].PLAN;2 (0 records)a: >%COPY-S-APPENDED, DKA0:[DDACHTERA]LOGIN.COM;1 appended to >DKA0:[DDACHTERA].PLAN;M >2 (18 records)m >.# >For what little it may be worth...  >  >--  >David J. Dachtera  = Similarly the older editors, EDT and TECO can be made to copy03 FOO.X to .PLAN, though TPU wanted to make FOO.PLAN.i   $ edit/teco/read foo.x  
 *ew.plan$ex$$t   $ edit/edt foo.x*    1       This is FOO.X (hopefully .PLAN) *write .plan  DEVCC:[CCBURGESS].PLAN;2 2 lines *quite   but edit/tpu writes FOO.PLAN  F Nasty little ways round your problem, but I can't think of a good one.     Ian Burgess  University of Queensland I.Burgess[at]its.uq.edu.au www.its.uq.edu.au-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:55:56 GMTH1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>-@ Subject: Re: First person to get this correct gets a small gift.' Message-ID: <3C71B234.BD25F497@fsi.net>a   Arlen Williams wrote:  >  > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >o/ > > How many 3rd party applications run on VMS?N > >O > > Sue/ > At least 861.   G If I were in any position to do so, I would offer a prize for the firstr= person to produce and post a list of applications, by vendor.   H I got off easy last year. No one claimed the $1000 cash I offered to the@ person who could double OpenVMS's marketshare by the end of 2001D (31-Dec-2001). The wife and I might get a vacation this year - first- time since we're married (since 12-Sep-1998).c   -- s David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:48:04 +1200u& From: A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj>% Subject: FW: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1oG Message-ID: <BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FF6155C5@EXCHSVR.FSC.COM.FJ>T   Richard,  I How can I install DECdtm? Do I have to re-install VMS or can just installn" DECdtm?  Where can I find the kit.+ I'm abit new to VMS.. excuse me for asking.e Thanks     -----Original Message-----2 From:	Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotmail.c0m] ' Sent:	Monday, February 18, 2002 6:56 PME To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComC% Subject:	Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1y   Hi, ( It's part of DECdtm that comes with VMS.E What's the secondary error? "Prot shareables must be installed"? Thenn install it.l' INSTALL> lis sys$library:dti$share/full-+ DISK$OPENVMS062:<SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB>.EXE F    DTI$SHARE;1      Open Hdr Shar     Prot Lnkbl                Nopurg&         Entry access count         = 1*         Current / Maximum shared   = 2 / 4&         Global section count       = 3     Regards Richard Maher.1 A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> wrote in message A news:BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FF6155BC@EXCHSVR.FSC.COM.FJ...P > Hi All >t0 > I'm using Oracle RDB V 7.0-1 on OpenVMS v7.2-1 >sI > When I execute @sys$startup:rmonstart to start RDB, I got the following  > error msg; >e" > error activating image DTI$SHARE > E > Where can I get this image file? Do I have to install another layer  product? > If so which one? >e > Need your help >n > AB >V >  >s >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:46:54 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?8 Message-ID: <y_bc8.3945$ro5.939402@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:QNUJod1tvZnz@eisner.encompasserve.org...27 > In article <3C707627.EBE091D8@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Rob Young wrote:> > >>         Because of Gartner, we know now how large VMS is.J > >>         411,000 licenses and $2 billion per year in service revenues. > >e > >0L > > But Compaq did not reply to Gartner's point that a certain percentage of those0 > > licences are inactive.  D Compaq's failure to immediately and agressively respond to Gartner'sH allegations is IMHO completely unconscionable. Somebody is asleep at the! switch in strategy and marketing.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:04:39 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?8 Message-ID: <bfcc8.3951$ro5.951754@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message) news:z49c8.6528$5L.2743@news1.bloor.is...e >t< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C705268.6ACC9CEF@videotron.ca... > >tL > > VMS engineers are confident that their jobs and projects are safe. Hence > ourtH > > worries based on all the signals we get from the Carly/Curly/Winkler
 > speeches+ > > are wrong. We need not worry about VMS.o >E >OH > I have no doubts that all the good people in VMS Engineering, or Tru64L > Enginnering, are all extremely capable and talented individuals. I believeJ > that they could make VMS sing on StrongArm or any other processor family ifL > the had to. However, my point is, how many VMS engineers are on the CompaqK > Board of Directors? How many will be on the HP Board of Directors? That'sl > where the decisions are made.I  L Indeed. But who needs Engineers when you have the likes of Ken Lay. IMHO anyH high-tech company that does not have at least one technically-proficientH Board member is making a big, big, big mistake. Look at what happened to) Digital. And, for that matter, to Compaq.   K I sit on advisory boards to several companies. If nominated (unlikely underAL Compaq's police state one-nominee/one-vacancy scam) I will run. If elected IH will serve. I may not be a CEO or a Marketing Expert, but I sure as hell1 know what technology and marketing are all about!2     > >mK > > Besides, this is like on a plane that had run out of fuel in the middlen of > thesH > > ocean. Even though it might get very ugly at the end (and the end isI > > inevitable), you might as well enjoy the last 30-40 minutes of a very  > quietoE > > flight. Pointless to worry about something you have absolutely noo control  > over.9 > >0K > > When the plane does hit the water, then do brace yourself and deal withe > theD > > crisis at that moment. > >oL > > The flight attendants (VMS engineers) have told us not to worry and thatJ > > everything is fine even though we strongly suspect that the silence is > causedJ > > by the engines being out. And unless the engineers (flight attendants) asko > us+ > > to help, pointless to get in their way.o >nJ > For many, this is not an option. It's not a matter of getting in the way of@ > anyone in the passenger cabin. It's a case of one of those new
 non-breakablesK > cockpit doors, and both the pilot and co-pilot are slumped senseless over F > the controls, suffering from food-poisoning (based on a true story -) > happened in Canada in the late 1950's).  >:J > Your boss, who is also riding on the same plane with you panics, reachesL > under his seat and find a combination life jacket and parachute with a SunJ > logo on it. He thinks that the Sun parachute/life jacket offers the bestJ > chance of survival, despite being army-surplus left over from WWII, with@ > suspect bouyancy of the life jacket, and that the parachute isL > non-steerable. He figures that the odds you won't die hitting the water atL > 500 Kph (typically this is what happens) or that you won't drown (at leastK > not right away) in the old life jacket are reasonable, so he tells you totJ > put the Sun life jacket and parachute on and jump from 10,000 metres and at
 > 850 Kph. >mL > His rationale is, "I don't want to be a bunch of body parts that my familyJ > won't recognize, that are recovered after the plane hits the water. If I usetL > the parachute and life jacket I might break a bone on landing, and I mightK > get a mild case of hypothermia before we get resuced, and I'll spend sometG > time in the hospital recovering. But the 'mission' can continue, I'lle stilld? > have a job, I'll be battered and bruised, but I'll be alive."t > G > All because we can't bust into the cockpit and pull the incapacitatedd flight > crew out.  >  > (metaphor off) >r >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:24:45 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>"H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?, Message-ID: <3C7154F8.E5BC9EFA@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:iF > Compaq's failure to immediately and agressively respond to Gartner'sJ > allegations is IMHO completely unconscionable. Somebody is asleep at the# > switch in strategy and marketing.m  K When the board wasn't happy with Pfeiffer, it didn't take long to throw himhN out. If they find incompetence in strategy and marketing, they would take even less time to throw them out.  K The only possible conclusion is that Compaq's actions (or lack thereof) areeL fully consistent with its strategy. (and I would say that for the past year,: they would have been fully consistent with HP's strategy).  I The VMS engineers are fully confident that VMS is safe, so they must know  something that we don't know.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:59:11 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>IH Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?' Message-ID: <3C71B2F8.52059D45@fsi.net>m   JF Mezei wrote:r >  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:dH > > Compaq's failure to immediately and agressively respond to Gartner'sL > > allegations is IMHO completely unconscionable. Somebody is asleep at the% > > switch in strategy and marketing.e > M > When the board wasn't happy with Pfeiffer, it didn't take long to throw himbP > out. If they find incompetence in strategy and marketing, they would take even > less time to throw them out. > M > The only possible conclusion is that Compaq's actions (or lack thereof) arefN > fully consistent with its strategy. (and I would say that for the past year,< > they would have been fully consistent with HP's strategy). > K > The VMS engineers are fully confident that VMS is safe, so they must knowi > something that we don't know.i   ...and they're not talking.   G Rob Young has repeatedly chided me for asking them to at least show theoH color of the back of the cards they're holding, even if it *IS* all just one great big bluff.   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:17:51 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>H Subject: Re: Hello Compaq!  What happens to us VMS users if Itanic dies?9 Message-ID: <ztjc8.4162$ro5.1274446@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>n  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C71B2F8.52059D45@fsi.net...a > JF Mezei wrote:m > >i > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: J > > > Compaq's failure to immediately and agressively respond to Gartner'sJ > > > allegations is IMHO completely unconscionable. Somebody is asleep at thel' > > > switch in strategy and marketing.h > >EK > > When the board wasn't happy with Pfeiffer, it didn't take long to throwl himeH > > out. If they find incompetence in strategy and marketing, they would	 take even   > > less time to throw them out. > > K > > The only possible conclusion is that Compaq's actions (or lack thereof)1 areuJ > > fully consistent with its strategy. (and I would say that for the past year,e> > > they would have been fully consistent with HP's strategy). > > H > > The VMS engineers are fully confident that VMS is safe, so they must know! > > something that we don't know.. >N > ...and they're not talking.e >eI > Rob Young has repeatedly chided me for asking them to at least show the J > color of the back of the cards they're holding, even if it *IS* all just > one great big bluff.  I You are right,  it would be nice to know that the hand in question is NOT  "Aces and Eights."    J But I can't speak for the folks in VMSland. There was an interesting pieceD on VMS marketing on The Inquirer today, it's worth taking a look at.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:13:48 GMT91 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>f( Subject: Re: Hobbyist - Layered Products' Message-ID: <3C71B675.3297B422@fsi.net>D   Mark Redding wrote:  >  > Hi,a > J > The VAX Hobbyist CD contains a few layered products, but by no means all6 > those that the Hobbyist site shows license PAKs for.A > How have other hobbyists obtained additional layered products ?vI > Has anyone used the Compaq software loan site to do this (the agreementS > implies not) ?+ > What is the correct way top go about it ?v  D I was trying to develop some DCL code to process the ConDist CDs andE copy down everything that appears in the licenses onto one or more CDl1 images. Maybe I can get back to that this Spring.    -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems$ http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:54:36 -0700D$ From: Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca>A Subject: Re: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptime ) Message-ID: <3C714DEC.FA1C3937@cha.ab.ca>i   General information:P     Regional Healthcare environment.  Various inhouse-written applications: ADT, MatMan, payroll,...0M     FDDI cluster.  LAN and WAN serving users.  PC's and mixed bag of terminala servers (LAT).S     Two mirrored data centers.  Four Alpha production nodes, one quorum VAXstation.S
 Storageworks.-% During cluster uptime, migrated from:2.     Whatever version was in 1993 to VMS 7.1-2.R     Various VAX's to current AS1200's.  In process of migrating to four ES45's and SAN.T     Emulex legacy drives to Storageworks.  No downtime using RMS and inhouse-written	 routines.d  S We implemented clustering and volume shadowing pre-1993.  The cluster broke in 1993s due to FDDI problems.e     Simon Clubley wrote:  R > In article <3C6D5B5A.5EA21AA8@cha.ab.ca>, Lee Y T Mah <lytmah@cha.ab.ca> writes:; > > Thanks for your post.  FYI, here is our cluster uptime.a > >aG > >     This cluster has been operational since 31-JAN-1993 04:12:54.36tJ > >     and this system has been operational since 20-SEP-2001 17:02:28.00 > >E >EM > Now _that's_ the kind of uptime that a VMS cluster should have. Has it beend< > providing continuous production service during that time ? >d; > Are you allowed to talk about the cluster configuration ?  >eG > Any others with cluster uptimes of 5 years or greater ? (I've alreadym > seen Alan Greig's posting).t >s > Simon. >l > --B > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    -- Lee   ; Lee Y T Mah                        Capital Health Authorityc? Email: lytmah@cha.ab.ca            Information Systems, RAH CSCt4 Phone:  (780) 477-4725, 477-4233   10240 Kingsway NW? Fax:      (780) 491-5119, 491-5619    Edmonton, AB, CAN  T5H3V9    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:11:48 +0100e' From: Jiri Kulhan <lars.nospam@post.cz>eA Subject: RE: Longest VMS _cluster_ uptime, was: Re: 1 Year uptimes2 Message-ID: <CFN373059665378241@news.felk.cvut.cz>   Hi=2C-  I this is one of my archived emails=2C extracted from Digital's VMSNOTES=2EI  J I think it could be a problem when you can't remember how to boot it again  after power outage =3A-=29=29=29   Jirka@   ---snip----d  L =3C=3C=3C VAXAXP=3A=3ANOTES$=3A=5BNOTES$LIBRARY=5DVMSNOTES=2ENOTE=3B1 =3E=3E =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DaU Note=3A 3188=2E4              Availability in Years =3F                              m	   4 of 4 AZ ripper=2Estl=2Edec=2Ecom=3A=3AGILLINGS =22a crucible of info 10 lines 13-MAY-1999 19=3A57 D                                     -=3C OS or power supply=3F =3E- P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- ----M  The uptime of OpenVMS clusters is usually more a measure of the reliability   of  P the power supply than the operating system=2E I have several clusters which are  onlyR  ever taken down when the power fails=2E I think there is one VMS system which wasB  reported recently to have been booted continuously since 1982=2E    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:22:52 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)5 Subject: Re: MAILERRORS.COM (was Re: DCL procedure's) = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0202181922.6656e44a@posting.google.com>t  s SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0202180836.65ff5e55@posting.google.com>...d  A Here's a slightly better version of MAILERRORS.COM. The old had a A leftover SET NOON that was needed in a previous version. This onea should work better.u  @ Yeah, it's nothing fancy, but a poster asked for DCL procedures!    u $!+  MAILERRORS.COM5 $! $!!  Initialize symbols: $  $    MAIL = "MAIL" $    WSC := WRITE SYS$COMMAND  $    WSO := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT $g $!!  Define status codes:. $5$ $    MAILERRORS__STATUS = %X180380006 $    MAILERRORS__SUCCESS = MAILERRORS__STATUS + %X00016 $    MAILERRORS__WARNING = MAILERRORS__STATUS + %X00008 $    MAILERRORS__CONTROL_Y = MAILERRORS__STATUS + %X000C $  $!!  Establish handlers: $n! $    STATUS = MAILERRORS__SUCCESSi& $    ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO _CONTROL_Y  $    ON WARNING THEN GOTO _ERROR $s  $    NODE = F$GETSYI("NODENAME")2 $    IF (F$SEARCH("MAILERRORS.LIS").NES."") THEN -%         DELETE/NOLOG MAILERRORS.LIS;* % $    SHOW ERROR/OUTPUT=MAILERRORS.LISeE $    SIZE = F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES("MAILERRORS.LIS","EOF") ! Get number ofJF $!                                              ! blocks used by file. $    IF (SIZE .GT. 0)y	 $    THENo $        WSO " "F $        WSO "*******************************************************"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*       Device errors found.                          *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*******************************************************" $        WSO " "E $        MAIL MAILERRORS.LIS SYSTEM         /SUBJECT="''NODE' Errors"  $        WSO " "F $        WSO "*******************************************************"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*       SHOW ERROR output mailed to SYSTEM and        *"F $        WSO "*       displayed below.                              *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*                                                     *"F $        WSO "*******************************************************" $        WSO " " $        TYPE MAILERRORS.LIS $        WSO " "
 $    ENDIF  $    ON WARNING THEN GOTO _ERROR $    GOTO _EXIT  $  $_CONTROL_Y:# $    STATUS = MAILERRORS__CONTROL_Y  $    GOTO _EXITf $? $_ERROR: $    STATUS = $STATUSe $    GOTO _EXITf $  $_EXIT:?
 $    SET NOONu $    ! Cleanup code goes here.$ $    EXIT STATUS .OR. %X10000000  !#      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanm afeldman~!~!~gfigroup.coms   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:08:25 GMTu4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>0 Subject: Re: Mounting CD takes VMS 7.2-1 down...0 Message-ID: <3C714207.C6530C12@blueyonder.co.uk>   Nic Clews wrote: >  > Mark Sun wrote:c > >CK > > An ISO9660 CD burned using Easy CD Creator 5 Platinum on a HP cd-writere9 > > 9500 causes an immediate systems crash when mounting:w > J > In this case you'll find the problem in fact lies on your PC system. Let > me guess. ROXIO !e > H > The problem is that it does NOT stick to the ISO standards, and IIRC aE > bit is set, or not set, and this causes VMS to bugcheck. There is atJ > patch, the MOUNT96, but this simply prevents you from mounting the disk," > therefore avoiding the bugcheck. > B > Take it up with Roxio. The software is not creating ISO9660 cds. >   L then again, surely a non standard conformant CD should not bugcheck VMS, but! produce an helpful error message.H  o -- Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  s  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of e! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2002 21:31:06 GMT- From: ukgaragescene@aol.com (UK Garage Scene) % Subject: Re: Network Printer problemsd9 Message-ID: <20020218163106.11675.00001002@mb-bg.aol.com>e  L it depends, have you been able to use the printer before?  have you assignedK the correct symbiont to the printer? for tcpip use tcpip$telnetsym when youtN initialise the printer, also have specified the correct port to use at the endF of the IP address?  This can be found through your printer vendor.  OrH altogether you can delete the queue and re-initailise it, for tcpip use: $nJ init/queue/start/on=node1::"7.x.x.x:yyyy"/default=(feed,forms=yourforms)/p rocess=tcpip$telnetsym yyyy = tcpip port number   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:27:51 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>$ Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times -- RIP???A Message-ID: <HIbc8.97522$d34.7101543@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagea2 news:hx8c8.3396$ro5.785883@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net... >t? > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in message.- > news:Ea7c8.174$YS1.4608@news.cpqcorp.net...  > > Terry is correct.a > >  > > Suei > > Former editor OpenVMS Times  >aI > Apparently the questioner had an advance copy of a very recent issue ofo SKC.J > The decision to reformat the publications should come as no great shock.G > Look at the continuing metamorophosis in the publishing industry as ah whole.  A Methinks the decision likely has a great deal more to do with thetG metamorphosis of Compaq than with any connection to the workings of theo 'publishing industry'.  Duh.  K But you're correct that such a move comes as no great shock:  just a littleiF more of the same.  Of course, just because there's a blatantly obviousJ pattern doesn't prove that Compaq isn't secretly a passionate supporter of& VMS, but it's sure suggestive as hell.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:09:32 -0500n. From: "Jerry Alan Braga" <jabraga@flanagan.ca>% Subject: Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1i2 Message-ID: <_Qfc8.14949$X2.180246@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  E What is the best version of OpenVMS for RDB 7.0.6.x and 7.1 on Alphas   K I have 7.0.6.2 now and would like to jump to RDB 7.1 but am required to run I 7.2 and above of OpenVMS.  Is VMS 7.3 the way to go or use the 7.2-2 kit.o    ? "norm lastovica" <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote in messagep$ news:3C71075E.53F7641D@oracle.com...: > First, please upgrade Rdb to a supported version.  7.0-18 > is an antique.  Rdb V7.0.6.3 is the current release... >i: > DTI$SHARE is part of the distributed transaction support7 > in VMS.  You could re-install VMS (I see that you aren: > running on an Alpha) and it would re-appear.  If you are; > going to re-install, you might want to consider upgrading ; > to 7.2-2.  Alternately, you could probably copy the imageo! > off of your distribution media.  >  > A Bonaveidogo wrote: > >n
 > > Hi All > >n2 > > I'm using Oracle RDB V 7.0-1 on OpenVMS v7.2-1 > >kK > > When I execute @sys$startup:rmonstart to start RDB, I got the followingt > > error msg; > >,$ > > error activating image DTI$SHARE > >aG > > Where can I get this image file? Do I have to install another layero product? > > If so which one? > >e > > Need your help > >r > > AB >t > --@ > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:02:46 -0500e2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>% Subject: Re: Oracle RDB Server V7.0-1 * Message-ID: <3C71A435.E931A680@oracle.com>   Jerry Alan Braga wrote:  > G > What is the best version of OpenVMS for RDB 7.0.6.x and 7.1 on Alphast > M > I have 7.0.6.2 now and would like to jump to RDB 7.1 but am required to runaK > 7.2 and above of OpenVMS.  Is VMS 7.3 the way to go or use the 7.2-2 kit.o  4 	entirely up to you.  I've been using both 7.2-2 and: 7.3 (and baselevels of follow-on releases) in the lab with; good results.  7.3 does include some additional performancet7 improvements, but if you're not pushing a big (8+ CPUs)e< system hard today, you may not see much improvement.  If you9 have to upgrade VMS at all, you might as well go "all thea way" and install 7.3.e 	e > A > "norm lastovica" <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> wrote in message & > news:3C71075E.53F7641D@oracle.com...< > > First, please upgrade Rdb to a supported version.  7.0-1: > > is an antique.  Rdb V7.0.6.3 is the current release... > >s< > > DTI$SHARE is part of the distributed transaction support9 > > in VMS.  You could re-install VMS (I see that you arey< > > running on an Alpha) and it would re-appear.  If you are= > > going to re-install, you might want to consider upgrading-= > > to 7.2-2.  Alternately, you could probably copy the imager# > > off of your distribution media.m > >n > > A Bonaveidogo wrote: > > >  > > > Hi All > > >S4 > > > I'm using Oracle RDB V 7.0-1 on OpenVMS v7.2-1 > > >tM > > > When I execute @sys$startup:rmonstart to start RDB, I got the followingt > > > error msg; > > >v& > > > error activating image DTI$SHARE > > >HI > > > Where can I get this image file? Do I have to install another layere
 > product? > > > If so which one? > > >s > > > Need your help > > >i > > > AB > >t > > --B > > norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   -- d> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:34:29 -0500s- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> $ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"( Message-ID: <3C71573B.42906D3D@ohio.edu>  F The fine print of the "Product Use Rights" agreement covering our site2 license with Microsoft, includes such sections as,    G "The Software product may contain support for programs written in Java.tH Java technology is not fault tolerant and is not designed, manufactured,F or intended for use or resale as online control equipment in hazardousF environments requiring fail-safe performance, such as in the operationE of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation or communications systems,-F air traffic control, direct life support machines, or weapons systems,E in which the failure of Java technology could lead directly to death,s@ personal injury, or severe physical or environmental damage. SunQ Microsystems, Inc. has contractually obligated Licensor to make this disclaimer."m    7 Microsoft's lawyers do try to justify their existence. m   								RDPr     "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >g+ > > In article <3C6C897C.7FA7A450@fsi.net>,i8 > >  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > > |>3 > > |> Better not try that in the healthcare field!  > > |> > >dG > > I hate to burst your bubble, but how many hospitals still run VMS??. > H > AFAIK, all three o fthe major healthcare organizations here in Chicago > (NMH, Advocate, U of I). >  > > How many run Windows?? > F > Hhmmm. Good point. i better find out and make 100% certain that I amC > *NEVER* treated at any facility that trusts it patients' lives toe> > Micro$hit crapware without a VMS back-end guarding the data! > ; > > Looks to me like they not only tried it, they liked it.eG > > (I only visit any hospital once every couple of years.  My last twoeF > > visits were a number of years ago to have my knees scoped one yearB > > apart for each.  When I went in for the first, they were stillB > > running VMS.  When I went in a year later for the second, theyG > > were running NT 4.0.  Both trips went completely without surprises.eL > > As much as people here dislike MS junk, it is time for a reality check.) > J > That reality check *WILL* come - probably beginning in the local circuitG > court. It's only a matter of time until someone claims an injury or a4F > loved one's death was due to a Wintel computer that crashed during aE > critical phase of someone's care. Heaven help the poor S.O.B. who's  > gotta defend that case!  >  > -- > David J. DachteraC > dba DJE Systemsy > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   -- sB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:44:40 -0500e5 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom> # Subject: Re: PPP for TCPIP on VAX ?.. Message-ID: <3C7183D8.56B1808@compaq.com.doom>  H     All of the source code for PPPD has been released, and if I remember I can cut a kit with? the latest bug fixes and release that.  You can get the code atL) ftp://ftp.tmk.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/.rI We know about the lack of CHAP and PAP support.  But nobody is willing to: fund the work toH make this happen.  I am willing to help anyone who wants to make it work using the PPPD code.I You need to write VCM and code to hook into the VCM.  There is an examplev VCM in pppd H directory under sys$examples.  You should not need all the released code to add CHAP andw PAP.  I     When PPPD was done there was a long list of enhancements and features  planned.  But thatE work got canceled in favor of other work deemed more critical.  Plansa change, we released all therH source so that folks could enhance it and port it to VAX if they wished. Even if you get the PPPDG code ported you still need to get the TCPIP folks to release their codeF that hooks into it on VAXl as well.     Forrestt Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:15:57 GMT ) From: "Geoff Bryant" <nospam@nowhere.net> # Subject: Re: PPP for TCPIP on VAX ?a9 Message-ID: <Nrjc8.6136$%b6.1447211@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>a  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messageE7 news:d7791aa1.0202171315.695409c3@posting.google.com...o: > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( news:<3C6EA2D3.917C9DE1@videotron.ca>...C > > With Compaq in a state of limbo until its fate is decided by HPt
 shareholders,eK > > would there be any chance that VMS engineers would release the code for  theoL > > PPP interface to TCPIP software so that hobbyists could port it to VAX ? > > D > > It woudldn't take much to just post the code to some unsupported
 directory and H > > let the hobbyists take it from there. Compaq wouldn't really need to knowG > > about it. And once hobbysist have ported and tested it, perhaps theW	 engineers K > > could then integrate it into VAX-VMS before the last version of VAX-VMS- is released. > > L > > The availability of PPP on VAX would allow connectivity between PDAs and VMS:" > > to be developped for instance. > D > you could always get TCPware for vax as I think it supports it ...   TCPware does indeed.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:08:25 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> $ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ' Message-ID: <3C71B532.A2DC0CD3@fsi.net>    Brass wrote: >  > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > >S > > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > >3" > > > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > >3F > > > > Also pointers to various programming resources would be good -O > > > > like the link to the Bliss for C programmers document that was recently3P > > > > posted or a tutorial on how to use Forms (since it's on the hobbyist PAK > > > > list.) > > >oN > > > Are your referring to "forms" as in DEFINE/QUEUE/FORM and PRINT/FORM, or > > > DECforms, or FMS?- > >-H > > In this case, DECForms. I found the PAK on the list and installed itL > > from the old SPL I have and now have no clue what to do. Though I expectJ > > that, as always, "HELP FORMS" is my friend here (Ah, yep. Now what wasG > > that incantation for getting a text file out of help? Another FAQ Ia > > should writeup.) > > J > > Back to the main topic of this thread, this is another reason for thatJ > > list of just what some of the layered products are. I mention the word1 > > Forms and you know _4_ places it might apply.a > G > Not really. He obviously didn't read your posting carefully otherwiseaF > he would have noticed that two of his examples are completely OT and* > the other two are not good ones either.    My *GOODNESS* !!!e  C Were you weaned on a pickle or something? Too many pages at the weeR hours of the morning?   D He asked about "programming resources" and mentioned "Forms" in thatF context. I responded with appropriate topics. FMS and FDV$ calls exist8 as does the DECforms API, if I'm not too badly mistaken.  H ...or have you never heard of (SYS)$SNDJBC? There are function codes for1 manipulating forms, jobs, files within jobs, etc.d  B Well, William received them as pertinent to his query. That's good enough for me.   --   David J. DachteraE dba DJE SystemsM http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 21:14:57 -0800) From: Tobiela@aol.com (Tobie L. anderson)NY Subject: Re: Scandinavian Language(s) was Re: Younger recruits versus experienced  vetera.= Message-ID: <a34cd689.0202182114.54be43e2@posting.google.com>R  V J Ahlstrom <jahlstro@cisco.com> wrote in message news:<3C6C2D28.F1BED142@cisco.com>... > Terje Mathisen wrote:  > >  > > Peter Finderup Lund wrote: > > > = > > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:  > > > J > > > > I know the Danish also sing their language, but I don't think it's > > > > critical that they do. > > > L > > > No we don't.  At least not in general - only a few  dialects are a bitN > > > like that.  None of them have "musical accent" (is that what it's calledE > > > in English?) like Chinese or ancient Greeek to some extent had.  > > > N > > > Danish is infamous among the Scandinavian tongues for /not/ having a lotH > > > of melody (only very few tones are used and they are quite close). > > J > > Indeed. All Danes speak as if they have a potato in their mouth, or at= > > least this is what it sounds like to most Norwegians. :-)* > > >** > > > Maybe you are thinking of Norwegian? > > L > > Possibly some west coast or northern dialect then, 'Bokml' is too close > > to Danish. > > 	 > > Terje  > >  > > --$ > > - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>D > > "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" >  > " > The way I heard it there is only% > 1 Scandinavian language, it is just , > that the Swedes don't know how to spell it/ > and the Danes don't know how to pronounce it.*    C Well, I'm back again.  After thinking  long and hard I have finally E figured it out.  Not everyone who offers Scandinavian/Nordic insightsN are complete strangers.G  A In my wanderings here and there I have learned of European Bison, F Columbus's Norwegian heritage, Viking sightings of Bigfoot in Vinland,C and even fire breathing Red Dragons standing on the acres of shore,ID staring  across the water to where lake and wood meet, but never see
 the point.  5 "The most gifted members of the human species are at e5 their creative best when they cannot have their way."t Eric Hoffer   / Learn from the dedication of the True Believer.S       Ever and always A Viking Guy     >  >  > -- e. > The first ten amendments to the constitution- > are what make this a country worth fighting - > for.  Ignorance and apathy are what make it5 > so difficult to defend.e >      Jack Barone > 4 > You do not preserve freedom by destroying freedom. >      Eric Greene   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:45:30 -0500o( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: SIMH 2.9-1 VMS sources would be handy, Message-ID: <3C7159DA.7020406@tsoft-inc.com>   Mark Redding wrote:n  - >>>Sources to M+ and VMS would REALLY HELP.... >>>  > L > Back in the good old days one could get access to sources on microfilm, is > that still the case ?  >  >   C This practice stopped sometime during V4.? or the advent of VMS V5.   H A source CD can now be had, but it requires a subscription service, and ? some significant bucks.  Yearly cost of $1,300 or $2,300 is my v( understanding, which could be incorrect.   Dave   -- 24 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:44:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r' Subject: Slashdot discussion of Itanium 3 Message-ID: <BedFSklpwmmG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ) As of this moment they have 270 comments.y  T http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/18/2013228&mode=thread&tid=126&threshold=-1   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:10:13 -0500m; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: Software Question$ Message-ID: <3c7189e2$1@news.si.com>  L >I understand, thanks. The reason for the question was that up until now allL >the compiling/linking was done under VMS6.2-1h3 and it looks like this unitG >(Alpha 200) is about to die, we only have PWS433 and above running VMS.K >7.1-1h2+ apart from this, but it looks like we will use a DS10 and VMS 7.3 J >in furture. Problem is we still have to support, and provide software for, >6.2-1h3 versions. :( Your info helps though  F Our approach is to simply copy the SYS$LIBRARY and certain images fromI SYS$SYSTEM (like LINK.EXE) from the older system and then use them on therK newer system to compile/link.  For example, we have a VAX running V7.2, butyI build V4.3 images on it.  We have a command procedure, LINKV4_3_SETUP.COMw containing:a  < $!  Check to see if the VMS V4.3 RTL environment is defined. $!2 $   rtl = f$trnlnm( "sys$library", "lnm$process" ). $   if rtl .eqs. "" .or. rtl .nes. "LINKV4_3:" $   then $!@ $!      The VMS V4.3 RTL environment is not defined.  Define it. $!0 $       define/nolog forrtl      linkv4_3:forrtl0 $       define/nolog mthrtl      linkv4_3:mthrtl* $       define/nolog sys$library linkv4_3:* $       define/nolog sys$share   linkv4_3:@ $       define/nolog sys$system  linkv4_3:, sys$sysroot:[sysexe] $! $   else $!8 $!      The VMS V4.3 RTL environment is already defined. $!? $       write sys$output "Already using V4.3 link environment."  $!	 $   endif  $   exit  7 with a system-wide logical LINKV4_3 defined to point todK SYS$COMMON:[LINKV4_3], containing a good portion of SYS$LIBRARY from a real2? V4.3 system.  We also have a LINKV4_6 and a LINKV5_5 directory.i --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comdA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com3= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventr< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:37:43 GMT0 From: hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  t+ Message-ID: <a4rhln$roq@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>c  N In article <a4ofr0$gtc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,  <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:6 >In article <3C6E87A1.260E5D93@attbi.com>, Jeff Kenton ><JeffKenton@attbi.com> writes:S    P >>The book "Language, Thought & Reality" by Benjamin Lee Whorf (MIT Press, 1956)K >>proposed this a long time ago.  He has an interesting discussion of Hopi, K >>claiming that they have no words for "the present", so that everything is-P >>either in/continuing from the past, or in/going into the future.  Might affectJ >>your view of the world to think in Hopi if it's so (it's been disputed).  J >The idea is older than that. George Orwell's 1984 (written in 1948) makesL >extensive use of the concept. Newspeak was supposed to make the thinking of >heretical thoughts impossible.k >see  1 >http://www.ecoglobe.org.nz/ecostory/newspeak.htmv  F and much more recent, too--a couple of years back, you would regularlyF hear folks calling for their favorite change to language justifying it: on the grounds that it will change how people think . . .    hawk, shuddering   -- rK Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics    /"\   ASCII ribbon campaign G dochawk@psu.edu  Smeal 178  (814) 375-4700      \ /   against HTML mailaD These opinions will not be those of              X    and postings. 6 Penn State until it pays my retainer.           / \      ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:12:26 -0700) From: Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  e( Message-ID: <1bn0y6fhxx.fsf@cs.nmsu.edu>  2 hawk@fac13.ds.psu.edu (Richard E. Hawkins) writes: > H > and much more recent, too--a couple of years back, you would regularlyH > hear folks calling for their favorite change to language justifying it< > on the grounds that it will change how people think . . .   F And they've gotten their way, too.  I know far better than to refer to5 a generic programmer as ``he'' in anything I write...  --  < Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D.       Phone -- (505) 646-1605< Department of Computer Science       FAX   -- (505) 646-1002E New Mexico State University          http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer M Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair:  http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:28:00 -0800- From: merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt)5/ Subject: Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote bootn= Message-ID: <b6bf97d5.0202181227.401f5fac@posting.google.com>e  
 thanks Robert2" I will give The LANCP method a try   rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote in message news:<rdeininger-1802020757520001@1cust234.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>...o? > In article <b6bf97d5.0202172156.3aaf99b6@posting.google.com>,o0 > merritt.robert@spsd.sk.ca (rob merritt) wrote: > ! > >Hi 2 sort of related questionss > >t > >  > >1- H > >i have a 4 vs 4000 vlcs 2 of which have 1 gig drives (internally) andG > >vms 72 hobbist and as many layered prods as I could find. What I wasnH > >looking for,and may have allready under my nose , is a MOP server andD > >some doc on setting up a remote boot server on one of the VLCs to" > >server out a VMS 72 boot image. > B > VMS has 3 different components that can provide the MOP service:K > 1. DECnet phase IV (classic decnet).  See the DECnet manuals, and look atrK > cluster_config.com if you want to use MOP to boot VMS cluster satellites.  > B > 2. DECnet phase V (DECnet-plus).  Again, see the manuals, or use > cluster_config.com.	 > R > 3. The LANCP utility.  Look in the system management utilities reference manual. > Use CLUSTER_CONFIG_LAN.COM.> > G > In all these cases, the command file does a number of things that youB > _could_ do by hand.h > K > The LANCP method is somewhat prefered, since it works on any (recent) VMS K > system, with or without DECnet configured.  But if you are used to one ofg% > the others, they work just as well.o >  >  > >-2 F > >I have a mopd on a linux box that I used to get BSD on a 3100 m38 I > >also haveH > >a decserver 100 and a decserver 200 how would I get boot images to myE > >linux machine so they could boot also? . I have access to the boott > >images from a, > >server at work alpha 1000 running 6.2-1   > F > Once you have MOP configured, it can boot various systems, includingG > DECservers.  I dunno how you'd tie a linux box into this arrangement.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:08:38 GMTl- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> / Subject: Re: VMS 7.2 hobbist + mop? remote booto* Message-ID: <3C71D253.5000502@qsl.network>   Robert Deininger wrote:e >>-2E >>I have a mopd on a linux box that I used to get BSD on a 3100 m38 I* >>also havepG >>a decserver 100 and a decserver 200 how would I get boot images to mymD >>linux machine so they could boot also? . I have access to the boot >>images from ar+ >>server at work alpha 1000 running 6.2-1  o >> > F > Once you have MOP configured, it can boot various systems, includingG > DECservers.  I dunno how you'd tie a linux box into this arrangement./  C You would have install the binary boot images on the Linux box and o@ configure the mopd daemon to offer them when they are requested.  G The DECServers request their load images by name, and will accept them h# from any MOP server on the network.   G I do not know if the LINUX on VAX groups have implemented MOP booting, cD or if there is any other LINUX that can bootstrap from a MOP server.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyr   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:18:20 GMTo0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>> Subject: Re: VMS HELP glitch (was Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ)> Message-ID: <MPG.16db0f73ffff9a19989696@news.bellatlantic.net>  < In article <01KEFC6D8ZG28ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, * HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com says...F > > My gripe with VMS HELP: Why does it go back to Topic after listingI > > subtopics for the topic you got right but with a misguessed subtopic?  > C > You mean it's supposed to know that you mis-typed ACL but didn't . > mis-type SET?m  A Sure.  Say you're aiming at "HELP SET SECURITY/ACL", but you typed? "HELP SET ACL".  The "HELP" and the "SET" are okay, the problemaA is with "ACL", so HELP should leave you in "SET" with the list of. "SET" subtopics.  A More realistic is "HELP SET SECURITY/ALC".  It should take you asn@ deep into the help tree as it can, until it finds a problem with@ your command, and then leave you at that level, with the list of topics as hints.  B If it dumped you back to DCL, that wouldn't be as bad...  At leastA you could recall and edit your HELP command and try again.  As it-6 is, it leaves you at top-level help, which is useless.  ? There's no reason why it couldn't work as requested; RSTS/E DCLP help worked that way, IIRC.g   -- N John   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:46:02 -0500o2 From: Roland Hutchinson <rolands.spamtrap@usa.net>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      coms4 Message-ID: <a4rp6v$2jga5$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>  2 On Sunday 17 February 2002 14:07, Michael Joosten  <joost@c-lab.de>wrote:  < > You mean Fraktur (for printed matters) and Suetterlin (for > handwriting ) here?e > D > Both went away, you won't beleive it, due to offical decree in the
 > 3rd Reich. t  F Indeed so.  Mr. Hitler apparently somehow got the idea that they were  Jewish inventions.  Go figure.  7 > Pupils were taught to write latin letters instead. My F > mother, passing her 'Abitur' in '50, had to write her exams again inD > Suetterlin. But then it literally died away. While I can read someC > Fraktur (only due to old books), I'm not able to read Suetterlin.w  E "Suetterlin" is, strictly speaking, only the name for the very clean  @ and modern-looking version of the old handwriting introduced in D textbooks in the 1910s, using strokes of uniform thickness.  A more F inclusive term is "deutsche Schrift" or "(German) gothic handwriting".  ? The letter forms (glyphs) are drastically different from Roman 3F handwriting -- much more so than between Fraktur and Roman type.  You F could pretty much figure out Fraktur on your own without reference to 6 a manual or textbook; not so with the cursive writing!  F The cool thing about learning to read it (which I did, at least after A a fashion, in the course of studying music history) is that it's  F quite close to other sorts of gothic cursive handwriting that were in E use in Europe since the Middle Ages.  If you can read Suetterlin you R@ can read, for example, the "Secretary" hand used in Renaissance * English documents without much difficulty.   -- tA Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.d  A NB mail to rolands.spamtrap@usa.net is heavily filtered to remover8 spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:56:57 +0000 (UTC) ' From: Torsten <virus@fraqz.archeron.dk>oY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise    of      com - Message-ID: <a4s0rp$2jd9$1@news.cybercity.dk>t  Q I alt.folklore.computers skrev Boudewijn W. Ch. Visser <visser@ph.tn.tudelft.nl>:a   > Dutch    > makene	 > dochtero > hardnekkig > wiem > gaan
 > Ik ging   0 Danish: lave, datter, hrdnakket, hvem, jeg gr.  < Until 1900, 'we went' was 'vi ginge'; now it's 'vi gik' (all9 plural forms of verbs disappeared centuries ago, but were" preserved in writing).  > > English 'who' would be 'Wer' in German. (and wie in Dutch).   A Danish 'hvem' originally corresponded to English 'whom'. The wordnA corresponding to 'who' was 'hvo', but it's archaic now. So DanishC> has gone through what is happening with who/whom, but with the opposite result.   -- l Torsten    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:49:38 GMT-+ From: Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk>pY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compaoA Message-ID: <1014065378.3172.0.nnrp-02.9e98d142@news.demon.co.uk>7  = In alt.folklore.computers Dr. Dweeb <Dweeb@nospam.com> wrote:S > M > Barn (child) is also scottish, but I cannot recall whether it migrated fromg > or to scandinavia.  B I'd go with Bairn, it's certainly not pronounced similarly to the  large farm building.   -- 2P http://inquisitor.i.am/    |  mailto:inquisitor@i.am |             Ian Stirling.P ---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------" Things a surgeon should never say:! Better save that for the autopsy.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:09:01 -0800a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>cY Subject: RE: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compad9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAELIECAA.tom@kednos.com>   E It comes from Scandinavian, which indicates that it is a type of pastg participle constructiontH from the verb to bear in the sense of to give birth, but the original isL from the Icelandic meaning progeny. Also Latvian brns, and lithuanian brnasD similar meanings, and it is pronounced as spelled, like the big farm	 building.      > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Ian Stirling [mailto:root@mauve.demon.co.uk]* > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:50 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com E > Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Them > demise of compaq ) >x >i? > In alt.folklore.computers Dr. Dweeb <Dweeb@nospam.com> wrote:c > >aA > > Barn (child) is also scottish, but I cannot recall whether itl > migrated froma > > or to scandinavia. >uC > I'd go with Bairn, it's certainly not pronounced similarly to theh > large farm building. >t > --8 > http://inquisitor.i.am/    |  mailto:inquisitor@i.am | >  Ian Stirling.D > ---------------------------+-------------------------+------------ > --------------$ > Things a surgeon should never say:# > Better save that for the autopsy.h >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:36:54 +0000 (UTC)l' From: Torsten <virus@fraqz.archeron.dk>nY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise  of      compa - Message-ID: <a4rvm6$2852$1@news.cybercity.dk>   < I alt.folklore.computers skrev Dr. Dweeb <Dweeb@nospam.com>:M > Barn (child) is also scottish, but I cannot recall whether it migrated fromi > or to scandinavia.  C No, it's just a common Germanic root. It's bearn in In Old English.e --   Torsteni   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:14:14 -0800d# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>eY Subject: RE: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars   (was r9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEKPECAA.tom@kednos.com>r   > -----Original Message-----. > From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]) > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:13 AMR > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComaF > Subject: Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium- > powered cars (was Re: "Crashless Windows")]t >  >p/ > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:04:59 +0000, Roy Omond & > <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote: >i > >  > >rK > >... and surely it must be at the bottom of the bucket, which should make0+ > >harvesting the stuff relatively easy :-)r >.F > Well it is the case (I believe) that water at higher latitudes has aE > higher percentage of heavy water and that at the equator the least.I) > Presumably due to the centrifuge effectm  F If it were the centrifugal effect it would be more concentrated at the	 equator.,-K since the force is proportional to V squared/R and V is proportional to theK cosineH of the lattitude, which more than mask the somewhat larger radius at the equatorm  C Actually water is slightly more than just H2O, it is chains of suchs	 molecules/J weakly bound through the EM fields, because the two Hydrogen atoms form an angle-@ of 108 degrees with the oxygen atom thereby giving an electrical polarization tol8 the molecule, so what you end up with is  something like  	 >>>>>>>>>s  E Don't know if the angle changes at all with Deuterium or Tritium, you  wouldn't* think so since the neutrons have no charge   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:47:15 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)Y Subject: Re: [OT] Dueterium [from discussion about Deuterium-Gallium powered cars (was Re = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0202181947.6537ad9c@posting.google.com>v  h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<vSD+k0InadER@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <343f30ae.0202180622.1cde3f2e@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > I > > Deuterium is not heavy water. The formula for water is H2O, as we all3@ > > know. There are three isotopes of hydrogen: protium (regularJ > > hydrogen), deuterium, and tritium. Regular hydrogen is by far the mostJ > > common (I believe 99%+, I'll look it up at home later) and consists of  > > one proton and one electron.   Here are the values:   1H  99.985%  2H   0.015%  3H  12.33 years (half-life)     ? > So somewhat less than 1% of the hydrogen atoms are deuterium.h   Evidently, a lot less.   > J > > Bottom line: Deuterium is the heavy form of hydrogen because it has anI > > extra neutron. Water that contains deuterium atoms for some or all of - > > its hydrogen atoms is called heavy water.e > E > It would seem all water contains deuterium for _some_ of its atoms.n > E > There must be some percentage at which it qualifies as heavy water.N  E Okay, water in which *significantly more* than 0.015% of the hydrogeni/ atoms are deuterium qualifies as "heavy water."a  ? Also note that "pure heavy water" is not that much heavier than  regular water.  A Heavy water is approx. 20 atomic mass units (16 nucleons from the B oxygen atom, 4 nucleons from the two hydrogen atoms) per molecule.C Regular water is approx. 18 atomic mass units (16 nucleons from theRE oxygen, 2 nucleons from the hydrogen) per molecule. So that's a ratioc@ of 10/9, making pure heavy water 11% heavier than regular water.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman;`;`;`;gfigroup.com:   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.097 ************************e-ID: <a4rhln$roq@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>c  N In article <a4ofr0$gtc$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>,  <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:6 >In article <3C6E87A1.260E5D93@attbi.com>, Jeff Kenton ><JeffKenton@attbi.com> writes:S    P >>The book "Language, Thought & Reality" by Benjamin Lee Whorf (MIT Press, 1956)K >>proposed this a long time ago.  He has an interesting discussion of Hopi, K >>claiming that they have no words for "the present", so that everything is-P >>either in/continuing from the paS    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    S    