1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 21 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 101       Contents:* Re: Bounce mail messages are bouncing back. Re: Cisco 2948G-L3 layer three switch with VMS Re: Couple of Questions  Re: Couple of Questions  Re: Einstein ES40 Model 2  - Cheap !!!1 Only , F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result? Re: File renaming  Re: File renaming  Re: FILE REVISED DATE  Re: FILE REVISED DATE  Re: fopen crashes while in ASTF FreeVMS: what are CPQ's feelings likely to be ?, was: Re: MPE/iX usersJ Re: FreeVMS: what are CPQ's feelings likely to be ?, was: Re: MPE/iX users9 Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...) = Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...) = Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...) ) Re: Hewlett offers plan to boost HP stock ! How do I join this mailing list ? * Re: How to get rid of too many logfiles... HP 88780B and VS4000-90  Re: HP 88780B and VS4000-90  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles+ La Chemiserie Traditionnelle - Informations  lib$wait does not wait...  Re: lib$wait does not wait...  Re: lib$wait does not wait...  Re: lib$wait does not wait...  Re: MicroVAX Crash RE: Oracle RDB v7.0-1  Re: Oracle RDB v7.0-1 , OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows"0 Re: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows" Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"  PGP for OpenVMS? Re: PGP for OpenVMS?= Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare = Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare = RE: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare = Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare = Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare = Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare = Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare  Re: print on OCE copier ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS  Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ  Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ & Re: question about SET DISPLAY command Re: Question for Backup Gurus  Question on IP file.5 Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet < RE: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experiL Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans (7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? % Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger ) Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger ) Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger ) Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger ) Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger & Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?& Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?& Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ? UAF settings for Backup? Re: vax h/w type.  Re: vax h/w type. 8 Re: VAX/VMS mail sending and receiving to other machines VIP - VMS Information Provider VS4000-90 and HP88780B Re: VS4000-90 and HP88780B  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:20:35 GMT ' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> 3 Subject: Re: Bounce mail messages are bouncing back + Message-ID: <3C743E5B.49925D12@pacbell.net>    Tom Linden wrote:  > J > If it is always the same spammers, have you tried putting their IPs into > Bad-Clients: ip1,ip2, etc.    What, or where, is Bad-Clients ? >  > > -----Original Message-----. > > From: Sol Gongola [mailto:sol@adldata.com], > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:47 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > > Subject: Bounce mail messages are bouncing back  > >  > > & > > We have vms 7.2-1 tcpip 5.1 eco 3.B > > We have a problem with rejected bounce messages filling up ourF > > postmaster account. We tried "Reject-Unbacktranslatable-IP: FALSE"E > > in smtp.config but it made receiving mail from legitimate senders  > > difficult. > >  > > The scenario is as follows: 1 > > We disable user accounts from receiving mail. J > > Mail arrives to these users from spam site with invalid reply address.3 > > VMS bounces mail back to invalid reply address. 8 > > We receive bounce message to the postmaster account. > > I > > Is there a way to not send back a bounce message if the reply address G > > is not valid, or a way to detect the rebounced message and kill it?  > > + > > Extract of sample mail messages follow: J > > VMS smtp sends reject message with the following to the reply address.- > >   ---- Transcript of session follows ---- J > >   %%%%%%%%%%%%                    9-FEB-2002 16:28:10.80  %%%%%%%%%%%%* > >   %MAIL-E-NOSUCHUSR, no such user BILL+ > >   ---- Recipients of this delivery ---- & > >   <BILL@MAIL.domain.COM> (bounced)& > >   ---- Unsent message follows ----5 > >   Return-Path: opt-in@mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.net ; > >   Received: from opt.edirectnetwork.net (66.115.47.118) C > >            by mail.domain.com (V5.1-15H, OpenVMS V7.2-1 Alpha); , > >           Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:28:08 -0500I > >   Received: (qmail 11035 invoked by uid 0); 9 Feb 2002 21:07:52 -0000 % > >   Date: 9 Feb 2002 21:07:52 -0000 J > >   Message-ID: <20020209210752.11033.qmail@mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.net> > >   TO: BILL@MAIL.domain.COM > > < > > we receive back a message to the postmaster account with* > >   From:   SMTP%"TCPIP$SMTP@domain.com" > >   To:     TCPIP$SMTP	 > >   CC:  > >   Subj:   Returned mail  > > + > >   Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:12:48 -0500 . > >   Message-Id: <02021217124844@adldata.com>! > >   From: TCPIP$SMTP@domain.COM  > >   To: TCPIP$SMTP > >   Subject: Returned mail > > - > >   ---- Transcript of session follows ----  > > > > >   %TCPIP-E-SMTP_UNREACHABL, cannot connect to remote host, > > mtsopt18.naviantnetwork.net I > >   -SYSTEM-F-CONNECFAIL, connect to network object timed-out or failed  > > & > >   ---- Unsent message follows ----	 > >   ... 	 > >   ...  > >    --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 18:13:51 -0800 From: noc@mortgageit.com (joe)7 Subject: Re: Cisco 2948G-L3 layer three switch with VMS = Message-ID: <79240318.0202201813.11705723@posting.google.com>    >>comments in-line    e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<uch77ukqgcfjcvt1dc3r0h2dugqpd2hahm@4ax.com>... C > On 19 Feb 2002 08:06:00 -0700, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm  > Dunnett) wrote:  >  > > ; > >> Anyone know of any hidden problems we might encounter?  > > G > >   The only problem we've had with this switch was when we initially I > >tried to run it with all the ports bridged together. In that situation H > >it was sensitive to broadcast storms, they would overload the CPU andJ > >cause lots of packets to be dropped. If you run each port as a separateR > >IP address/network or keep only a few ports in each bridge group this shouldn't > >be a problem. > E > Yes, this seems to be consistent. I've searched back newsgroups and ? > heard feedback from a few others saying the same thing. Works G > perfectly as a router but has problems when multiple ports configured F > as a layer 2 switch.  We certainly want to use its routing functionsB > but only across about 4 subnets so I expected to make use of its > bridging functionality.  > H > Anyone know if you can cheat by giving multiple interfaces the same IPD > address For example 192.168.nn.1 on multiple ports and this as the@ > default route for hosts connected to that port? A third party,9 > supposedly familiar with the device tells me you can...  > N put all the ports on that bridge group in one port channel  group (like 7500'sD do) and on the port channel group, put the IP address. I do it here.    B > >   The switch comes up as a router by default ( ie each port isE > >assumed to have a separate IP address or network assigned to it ). A > >If you want to run a cluster across multiple ports you need to C > >aggregate them into a bridge group, then the entire bridge group H > >is assigned the same IP subnet. Bridged traffic is not shared between > >multiple bridge groups.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2002 04:47:32 GMT+ From: "Joe Heimann" <heimann@ecs.umass.edu>   Subject: Re: Couple of Questions, Message-ID: <a51u54$eic$1@odo.ecs.umass.edu>  1 William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:  > Hello all,H > I recently got my hands on a copy of the June 1997 SPL for VMS 7.1 and) > was wondering about a couple of things:   * > 1) Will Posix 3.0 work on a 7.2 system? > > 2) Does it require a separate PAK from the operating system?2 > 3) Is is still possible to get a PAK for SoftPC?/ > 4) Is there a spread sheet available for VMS?   I Others have answered the first three questions, I will add that there was F a VMS version of Lotus available.  Have no idea if it is still around.   Joe Heimann    heimann@ecs.umass.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:53:19 -0500 * From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com>  Subject: Re: Couple of Questions. Message-ID: <3C7436EF.17863.B9FDE01@localhost>  + On 21 Feb 2002, at 4:47, Joe Heimann wrote: 1 > > 4) Is there a spread sheet available for VMS? K > Others have answered the first three questions, I will add that there was H > a VMS version of Lotus available.  Have no idea if it is still around.  E I have a TK-50 of WordPerfect 5.0 for VAX.  I haven't seen the Lotus  # 1-2-3 tapes in some years, however.     
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.   
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:29:20 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Einstein = Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202201629.47534d3c@posting.google.com>   | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KEI2PA2Z128ZKA1M@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...O > > > Einsteins Nobel prize was for his work on the photoelectric effect, IIRC.  > > L > >    Einstein's Nobel prize was formaly for his photoelectric work, but asI > >    he acknowledged in his acceptance speach, that was a cover for his = > >    relativity work which was actually being acknowledged.  > > F > >    The Nobel folks as the time wouldn't give Einstein a prize for C > >    relativity because it is completely theoretical physics (no  H > >    experiment involved) and therefor much to close to mathematics.  I > >    Nobel prohibitted any mathematics prizes (his wife ran off with a  M > >    mathematician).  The photoelectric work clearly involved experimental  , > >    work, so that was cited in the award. > E > See my previous post.  Of course, what Einstein said in his speech  F > (which was, by the way, not at the normal awards ceremony) and what 8 > motivated the committee might be two different things. > H > Yes, Nobel did specify "invention or discovery", which does make it a D > bit more difficult for purely theoretical things to get through.  G > However, it's not true that the photoelectric-effect work was JUST a  E > cover.  At the time, it was more revolutionary than relativity AND   > fitted Nobel's bill.  / Special Relativity is based on two postulates:    @ Postulate 1: There is no preferred inertial reference frame. AnyE experiment performed in an inertial reference frame works the same in E any other inertial reference frame. One cannot find a reference frame C that is "at rest" wihtout reference to something else. (An inertial 2 reference frame is one which is not accelerating.)  F Postulate 2.: The speed of light is constant in all inertial reference frames.   E The second postulate is the result of the Michelson-Morley experiment E in which they measured the speed of light in different directions, at A different times of day, at different times of the year; all in an ? effort to measure the speed of their laboratory relative to the A "ether". The ether was postulated to be the medium in which light E "vibrates". Since no variation of speed was ever observed -- and they F did measure it accurately enough to see changes in speed that would beC caused by various well-known motions of the earth -- one can deduce F Postulate 2. (The earth orbits the sun at about 18.5 miles per second.A Thus one would expect to see a variation in the speed of light of - twice that if measured twice 6 months apart.)   ? Consequently, Special Relativity is based on experimental data.   A Theories mean nothing without experiment. Theories are devised to C explain experimental results and to predict new results that can be  tested by new experiments.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman + afeldman nononono1274134nonono gfigroup.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:38:33 -0500 1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> ( Subject: ES40 Model 2  - Cheap !!!1 Only/ Message-ID: <u78crbceiphad6@news.supernews.com>   @ We have the following that we are offering one a "one only" deal< The sale of this system is on a first come first serve basis  ! ES40 Model 2 500Mhz No OS license  1GB Camintonn Memory	 18GB Disk  Ultra2 SCSI Controller DE600-AA Ethernet  CDROM  Floppy
 Rackmount Kit    Price is firm at $6495  0 System is USED and tested with 3 months warranty3 PLEASE NOTE THAT WE DO NOT OFFER 12 MONTHS WARRANTY  ON THIS PRODUCT   L We have this in house and would like to get rid of it this month - hence the low pricing!   Call David Max or Robin    Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 877 636 4332  International: 001 912 447 6622   Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net  www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:21:19 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>5 Subject: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result? & Message-ID: <3C7483CE.CD83F521@gmx.fr>  L Has anyone noticed that the F$EXTRACT lexical function sometimes seems to doN parsing and substitution of "embedded two quotes to one" and embedded variableH substitution? (by "embedded" I mean "within a quoted string") instead ofK returning what you want, i.e. the genuine string it is supposed to extract.   K I'm still writing a demo because the event does occur in a random way on my N system (Alpha 7.2-1H1), and I have learned since ages that there is no "ramdom behaviour" within DCL.   In two words, if you do    $ open/read ch my_file.txt $ read ch line
 $ close ch $ show symb lineO   LINE = "$ write sys$output "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at ",'today'  ../..    (today = f$time()) then  ? $ string = f$extract(first-quote,last_quote-first_quote+1,line)   P (first_quote being the position of the quote after "sys$output", not after the =I sign, which is part of the SHOW SYMBOL output, and last_quote having been 0 computed as the quote position before the comma)  @ you do not get the actual piece of string you wish to get, i.e.:  * "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at "  M but DCL substitutes first the two quotes enclosing the word DEMO by one, then R replaces ''i' by its value (well, as far as my testing tells me, up to yesterday).   and sends back:   0 "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at ",'toda  F i.e. string length + 6 chars, which is obviously not what I asked for. If you do a:  G $ write sys$output f$extract(first-quote,last_quote-first_quote+1,line)   ! assuming that i = "", you'll get:   ) "This is "demo" No for VMS Eng at ",'toda   : (and this behaviour is NOT reported in the DCL "bible" :-)   More later.b   D. -- eH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------H MORANDI Consultants  -  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmlH Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 (0)79 705 4670H 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  GSM: +33 (0)6 7983 6418  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 02:37:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: File renaming- Message-ID: <87664svw2k.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  6 Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:  B > I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regardingB > RENAME, and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by > COPY.g  eE > One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's whatu
 > happens:    > $ rename FOO.X .PLAN > $ dir *.PLAN    > Directory USER_DISK:[DC]  r > FOO.PLAN;1            s > Total of 1 file.   , > Even rename FOO.X to [].PLAN doesn't work.  eF > Does anyone know of a way to achieve this, or is this a quirk of VMS@ > that you can't make files nameless except at initial creation?   Yeah, the one that gor me wasr REN .emacs save.emacsR   OK, life is good, do stuff..  D Ah... the file name is sticky!! you can't rename back. F%^&%^, F&^%&  J teco .emacs and include the 'old' file is a cowards way out, but it works.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:15:01 GMTn' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>n Subject: Re: File renaming+ Message-ID: <3C743D0C.E70110EB@pacbell.net>c  ? If you have TCPIP Services it should work too. Try via a copy :   = 	copy/ftp x.tmp alphase.com"username ''passw'"::[.sysman].tmpM   Directory [.SYSMAN]n   .TMP;1               X.TMP;1     "Doc.Cypher" wrote:l > E > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  > >"Doc.Cypher" wrote: > >>M > >> I've had an interesting puzzle brought to my attention regarding RENAME,LC > >> and from testing also the same behaviour is exhibited by COPY.  > >>H > >> One user has asked how to rename a file FOO.X to .PLAN, here's what > >n' > >$COPY FOO.X node"user pass"::".PLAN"t > >aM > >DECNET allows "foreign file names" when enclosed in quotes and attempts nol > >file manipulation.t > I > OK, I'll take your word that one works - I don't have DECnet installed.g >  > Doc. > --8 > The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.M > ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.nete   --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Francisco    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 15:05:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)H Subject: Re: FILE REVISED DATE3 Message-ID: <8AJS+TpYMZ7u@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  g In article <dbcb2b6e.0202201024.f51b8a5@posting.google.com>, BHALPERN@UMCAZ.EDU (BRITT HALPERN) writes:mB > WHAT DOES THE NUMBER IN PARENTHESIS AFTER THE REVISED DATE MEAN?= >    Revised:   17-JAN-2002 09:30:53.77 (2)  <-----RIGHT HERE   - It means your keyboard is stuck in uppercase.   @ If your keyboard is in lowercase, then it is the number of times, the file has been closed after modification.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 15:57:29 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: FILE REVISED DATE= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202201557.24ee4e4d@posting.google.com>c  l BHALPERN@UMCAZ.EDU (BRITT HALPERN) wrote in message news:<dbcb2b6e.0202201024.f51b8a5@posting.google.com>...B > WHAT DOES THE NUMBER IN PARENTHESIS AFTER THE REVISED DATE MEAN?= >    Revised:   17-JAN-2002 09:30:53.77 (2)  <-----RIGHT HEREn    ? It means that the file was "revised" that many times. (I am nottE talking about the revision a file resulting from editing the file andoE thereby creating a new version of it. I am talking about revision [orgA modification, if you prefer] of a particular version of a file byhC appending to it, renaming it, modifying some aspect of it via a SETa FILE command, etc.)d  D IOW, it is the number of times that the "Revised" date-time has been updated for a file.g  " Try any of the following commands:  5     $ SET FILE/<file-modifying-qualifier> <file-spec>c$     $ RENAME <file-spec> <new-name> &     $ APPEND <other-file> <file-spec>   ' and you will see the count go up by 1.    ; I don't know if BACKUP/RECORD would cause this number to bes@ incremented. I would guess not because the "Revised" date is not updated in such an operation.      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmanw- afeldman ;;;;no;#$%no!%$nooo;;;; gfigroup.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:27:33 GMTr' From: nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com ()e' Subject: Re: fopen crashes while in ASTs( Message-ID: <Grurpx.4HF@news.boeing.com>  8 In article <91A5AB863warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>, / wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) writes:R   ..K |>If you did all your I/O exclusively within an AST, you may be fine since -D |>they're effectively single-threaded (within a given access mode).   & ---------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  E I am not reentrant or asynchronous knowledgeable - but - is the above.C really true now with kernel threads available in Alpha VMS 7.1 (?);8B I seem to recall reading in the OpenVMS Programming Concepts that  this is not true;    ..J |>As I said above, restrict your AST activities to setting event flags or M |>calling $WAKE. If you mix background I/O with AST I/O, I would be suprised i) |>if you *didn't* get problems like this.  |>-- |>Warren Spencer) |>Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)I |>The Associated Press  B seems like anything is reasonable IF the shared data has protectedB integrity; since we don't control the C RTL then you have to rely B on the usabilty statements (more warning than guarantee) given in C dicussions like decc$set_reentrancy; you can't ever assume when it  D comes to shared resources and asynchronous and multithreaded program ming;v   --bn (Bart Nickerson)S nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com (206) 662-0183   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:25:13 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)@O Subject: FreeVMS: what are CPQ's feelings likely to be ?, was: Re: MPE/iX users03 Message-ID: <KGmMn4Zkff63@eisner.encompasserve.org>j  h In article <d7791aa1.0202200549.4ee1f4e7@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > E > if Compaq/HP doesn't want "paying" vms customers, and try to do thenG > same to vms, then I hope FreeVMS comes out eventually and we will note) > buy any Compaq/HP product again "ever"!.  L The FreeVMS concept does raise some questions about if CPQ will try to block it.   H Imagine for a moment that the FreeVMS project does actually does produce< a viable subset of VMS. How will Compaq/HP feel about this ?  H Will they decide that they will try and block it for some reason or will they welcome it ?r  G Will they require that the FreeVMS people show that they have only usedoD public interfaces and documentation to produce the FreeVMS product ?J [As a defence against this, are the FreeVMS people keeping a documentationF trail showing how they obtained the information to produce the various components of FreeVMS ?]  F Will CPQ/HP demand that the word "VMS" not be used anywhere within theI resulting product as they may feel that it could impact on the reputationi of CPQ/HP ?   J I would like to see a FreeVMS. I just hope that it's developers are askingI themselves these kinds of questions, so that they can be prepared in casee) CPQ/HP decide to actively oppose FreeVMS.9   Simon.   -- tG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       o+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.h   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 17:09:02 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)S Subject: Re: FreeVMS: what are CPQ's feelings likely to be ?, was: Re: MPE/iX users = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202201709.161e9091@posting.google.com>    simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<KGmMn4Zkff63@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j > In article <d7791aa1.0202200549.4ee1f4e7@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > > G > > if Compaq/HP doesn't want "paying" vms customers, and try to do the-I > > same to vms, then I hope FreeVMS comes out eventually and we will not + > > buy any Compaq/HP product again "ever"!  > N > The FreeVMS concept does raise some questions about if CPQ will try to block > it.@ > J > Imagine for a moment that the FreeVMS project does actually does produce> > a viable subset of VMS. How will Compaq/HP feel about this ? > J > Will they decide that they will try and block it for some reason or will > they welcome it ?o > I > Will they require that the FreeVMS people show that they have only usedhF > public interfaces and documentation to produce the FreeVMS product ?L > [As a defence against this, are the FreeVMS people keeping a documentationH > trail showing how they obtained the information to produce the various > components of FreeVMS ?] > H > Will CPQ/HP demand that the word "VMS" not be used anywhere within theK > resulting product as they may feel that it could impact on the reputation.
 > of CPQ/HP ?o > L > I would like to see a FreeVMS. I just hope that it's developers are askingK > themselves these kinds of questions, so that they can be prepared in case + > CPQ/HP decide to actively oppose FreeVMS.f >  > Simon.  ( then call it something else ... remember      V --> W indowsd
    M --> N
    S --> T   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:33:39 -0800 From: hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy)lB Subject: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...)= Message-ID: <2c0966c2.0202201333.7e8224aa@posting.google.com>W   Hi:r  F   I am trying to write a simple C++ program which creates a "DETACHED"D process (the process will live even if the parent died) to load JVM, but I amB a bit confused about the usage of SYS$CREPRC. I have seen similiar	 topics on-1 this newsgroup, but I just need a bit more help. m    Here is the sample code I wrote:  . //it only displays the java help, not loading 6 //JVM at this point since the code will be much longer
 int main() {z   char * hey = "java -help";"   struct dsc$descriptor_d command;%   command.dsc$w_length = strlen(hey);o&   command.dsc$b_dtype = DSC$K_DTYPE_T;&   command.dsc$b_class = DSC$K_CLASS_D;   command.dsc$a_pointer = hey;     unsigned int pid;i   unsigned int base = 4;  -   $DESCRIPTOR(DCL,"SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE");i%   $DESCRIPTOR(procName,"Sammy_Test"); !   $DESCRIPTOR(output,"test.log");p   >   if (SYS$CREPRC(&pid, &DCL, &command, &output, &output, 0, 0, &procName, base,(       0, 0, PRC$M_DETACH) != SS$_NORMAL)   {a9     cout << "Problems creating detached process" << endl;t   }i  $   cout << "pid is: " << pid << endl;     return 0;e }l  F Basically, I am expecting the output of java help screen to show up on% the terminal. But this is what I got.i   $ cxx fun.cpp    w $ cxxlink fun.obj  $ run fun        s pid is: 609d  D I know i can user lib$spawn and other functions to create a process.C But, I absolutely need a "detached" process for my code to work. If E someone can share their insight and teach me how to use SYS$CREPRC, I  am greatly appreciated.t   P.S. this is my system- $ cxx /ver                                    - Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1      
 Sincerely,   Sammyp   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:44:21 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)xF Subject: Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...)3 Message-ID: <rJSxMqe0NWM8@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  [ In article <2c0966c2.0202201333.7e8224aa@posting.google.com>, hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy) writes:  > Hi:s > H >   I am trying to write a simple C++ program which creates a "DETACHED"F > process (the process will live even if the parent died) to load JVM,
 > but I amD > a bit confused about the usage of SYS$CREPRC. I have seen similiar > topics ont3 > this newsgroup, but I just need a bit more help. t  H > Basically, I am expecting the output of java help screen to show up on' > the terminal. But this is what I got.w >  > $ cxx fun.cpp    e > $ cxxlink fun.obj  > $ run fun        v
 > pid is: 609e   Does the process keep running ?i  M If not, what process termination command is shown by the ACCOUNTING command ?a  ? Try sending SYS$ERROR to a disk file until you get it debugged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:05:55 GMTu From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG F Subject: Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...)0 Message-ID: <00A09DC1.B47CFBF9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <2c0966c2.0202201333.7e8224aa@posting.google.com>, hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy) writes:  >Hi: >tG >  I am trying to write a simple C++ program which creates a "DETACHED"eE >process (the process will live even if the parent died) to load JVM,o	 >but I am.C >a bit confused about the usage of SYS$CREPRC. I have seen similiar8
 >topics on2 >this newsgroup, but I just need a bit more help.  >j! >Here is the sample code I wrote:y >e/ >//it only displays the java help, not loading  7 >//JVM at this point since the code will be much longery >int main()a >{ >  char * hey = "java -help";e# >  struct dsc$descriptor_d command;0& >  command.dsc$w_length = strlen(hey);' >  command.dsc$b_dtype = DSC$K_DTYPE_T;0' >  command.dsc$b_class = DSC$K_CLASS_D;  >  command.dsc$a_pointer = hey;  >t >  unsigned int pid; >  unsigned int base = 4;A >N. >  $DESCRIPTOR(DCL,"SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE");& >  $DESCRIPTOR(procName,"Sammy_Test");" >  $DESCRIPTOR(output,"test.log"); >  h? >  if (SYS$CREPRC(&pid, &DCL, &command, &output, &output, 0, 0,C >&procName, base, ) >      0, 0, PRC$M_DETACH) != SS$_NORMAL)e >  {: >    cout << "Problems creating detached process" << endl; >  } > % >  cout << "pid is: " << pid << endl;n >  >  return 0; >} >-G >Basically, I am expecting the output of java help screen to show up oni& >the terminal. But this is what I got. >T >$ cxx fun.cpp     >$ cxxlink fun.obj >$ run fun         >pid is: 609 > E >I know i can user lib$spawn and other functions to create a process.sD >But, I absolutely need a "detached" process for my code to work. IfF >someone can share their insight and teach me how to use SYS$CREPRC, I >am greatly appreciated. >  >P.S. this is my systeme. >$ cxx /ver                                   . >Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1  >n >r >Sincerely,m >  >Sammy  / Then you shouldn't send the output to TEST.LOG.t  A You're going to find yourself having problems with this approach. B Trying to have two processes sharing the terminal will be problem- atic.e  C If this is being run on a workstation, you might consider launching A a DECterm and then defining the input/output to this new DECterm.a   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe            "J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesm   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 15:00:55 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Hewlett offers plan to boost HP stock3 Message-ID: <goDBdNiaYYJ4@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  ` In article <g0j77u8vud3ddukrras3d1lvls0kajn8ri@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:C > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:07:29 -0800, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  > wrote: > * >>I'm sure most of you have seen this, butG >>http://www.montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/business/2708611.htmu > C > I get rubbish in Netscape and a blank page in Exploder. Could youd > quote the text please.  8 It works for me on Netscape Communicator 4.75-20000815 .  1 It works for me on Internet Explorer 4.5 (0408) .-  
 Get a Mac :-)-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:55:09 +1100u1 From: Wayne Harridge <wayne_harridge@toll.com.au>l* Subject: How do I join this mailing list ?A Message-ID: <79C772254D9FD5118B3400508BDE8E091A8BE8@LAVERTONEXCH>t   Wayne Harridge   Toll IT Developmentt Phone: (03)9284-2747 Mobile: 0408 031 581  I "If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if you-C teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime" <   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:31:14 -0000./ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>A3 Subject: Re: How to get rid of too many logfiles...e/ Message-ID: <u77uc2bfl46b24@corp.supernews.com>   + Vic Mendham <vmendham@altavista.com> wrote:rH : I'm trying to get rid of too many logfiles. It's not a case of versionA : limit as the files don't go past ;1, instead the files have theN* : version built in like NOT1_359950.LOG;1.  G : I know backup/image/exclude will not work, can anyone suggest another  : way other than delete.  @ Every week we scan a set of log directories and zip up any .LOGsA that are older than 14 days.  We identify them with a Dir/before=l "today-14-".  ? On the zip, we specify -m (delete the file after adding it intoi, the zip file) -V (save VMS file attributes).   Works pretty good.   -- . -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:01:05 -0500 ! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>   Subject: HP 88780B and VS4000-90* Message-ID: <a51ai1$j7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>  K I have VS4000-90/VMS 7.2 with an HP 88780B.  I need to restore a nine track G tape written with a UVII / VMS5.4.  Under the CONSOLE and VMS the drive H report as MKA300:, (SCSI 3 is set).  The Drive can be mounted but when iJ BACKUP/VERIFY MKA300:FILENAME.BCK DKA600:[DIRECTORY] it asks to be mountedJ under /FOREIGN.  When I do this the machine just hangs, (No error code, $,* $$$, or >>>) is ever returned.  Any ideas.   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:23:54 -0500:  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>$ Subject: Re: HP 88780B and VS4000-906 Message-ID: <1020220201323.38059A-100000@Ives.egh.com>   On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, me wrote:  M > I have VS4000-90/VMS 7.2 with an HP 88780B.  I need to restore a nine trackuI > tape written with a UVII / VMS5.4.  Under the CONSOLE and VMS the drive J > report as MKA300:, (SCSI 3 is set).  The Drive can be mounted but when iL > BACKUP/VERIFY MKA300:FILENAME.BCK DKA600:[DIRECTORY] it asks to be mountedL > under /FOREIGN.  When I do this the machine just hangs, (No error code, $,, > $$$, or >>>) is ever returned.  Any ideas. >  > Dave  D Backup needs its tapes mounted /foreign.  This is normal.  When doesC it break?  When you "$ mount/for MKA300:" (optionally, /nowrite) or $ when you execute the backup command?  E Maybe it is waiting for an operator to mount the tape (i.e. it thinksi? the wrong one is mounted and is waiting for someone to fix it.)-  C You can enable operator messages on your terminal (if you have OPEReA priv) with reply/enable.  But it is probably better to make mount8A and backup ask you directly if it thinks something is wrong... do2? this by including "/noassist" on the mount and backup commands.E     $ mount/for/noassist mka300:E   $ backup/log/verify/noassist mka300:filename.bck dka600:[directory]2  C (/log may be too noisy, but at least you can see what it is doing.)c  E When the process hangs, can you get back to DCL with ctrl/Y?  If not,e@ then it is likely the tape drive is wedged.  (Hardware or config@ problem, or the tape is in very bad shape and the drive has gone> crazy.)  Most programs can usually be interrupted with ctrl/Y.@ However, a device mount can't be.  You just have to wait for the2 hardware to time out, which might be many minutes.   -- s John Santosb Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2002 19:00:40 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troublest0 Message-ID: <a50roo$7se$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3C73E747.E5107DB5@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:n |> Nick Maclaren wrote:lF |> > A few months slippage won't kill it, but a year's slippage almost |> > certainly would.p |> nO |> I don't think so. Intel has the respect of Wall Street Analysts and has deepd6 |> pockets. This means that Intel can do as it wishes.  @ You are slightly out of date.  Competent observers knew that the@ Merced was in serious trouble by 1997, but it was 1999 before it@ was widely admitted in the technical community.  Wall Street andA so on remained blithely confident in the Merced even after it had 5 slipped by 2 years, but started to take note in 2001.n  @ The Intel IA-64 project no longer attracts the adulation that it? did, even in Wall Street.  My point is that another delay wouldw< almost certainly turn the current irrational confidence into
 disbelief.  M |> Besides, delays in new chips and new versions of OS are de-facto standard.g$ |> McKinley will come when it comes.  < Yes, they are.  But delays of 4 years aren't.  And a list of@ disasters as long and severe as those associated with the Itanic certainly isn't.  @ Several major OEMs have been SERIOUSLY shafted by Intel over the? Itanic (SGI being by far the worst hit, but by no means alone),rB and I doubt that any of them trust Intel any longer.  Also, havingA been treated like dirt by Intel for so long, they don't have muchtC loyalty, either.  Another 12 months delay is likely to trigger themp4 into considering abandoning the IA-64 line entirely.  O |> Many were brainwashed into thinking that IA64 would become industry standardcQ |> and take over the world. Compaq such as Compaq murdered their own  faster chiprP |> in anticipation of that. Itr is those people who are trembling in their pantsV |> because they realise now how stupid their decisions to bet their lives on IA64 was.  ? That is so.  But most of them (not Compaq) have now resusciatedhB their own alternative strategies - certainly NEC, HP and SGI have,? and IBM never announced the replacement of theirs.  So they nown@ have a genuine option if the McKinley flops or disappears out of< sight.  Similarly, the OEMs without their own chips have the? option of AMD's Hammer - or even buying in MIPS, PA-RISC, SPARCk or POWER4 systems!  ? There is also the point that the original Madison and Deerfield0? have been cancelled, dead, and the new ones are merely McKinley.@ variants.  If McKinley slips badly or fails they will, too.  And? the Alpha team IA-64 is unlikely to appear before 2005.  NOBODYm@ is going to wait for that if the McKinley line is a fiasco - not even Intel.7     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:31:27 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: Itanium troublest, Message-ID: <3C740793.1E8D10E7@videotron.ca>   Nick Maclaren wrote:B > The Intel IA-64 project no longer attracts the adulation that itA > did, even in Wall Street.  My point is that another delay wouldi> > almost certainly turn the current irrational confidence into > disbelief.  L I rarely hear mention on IA64 on business news. They just talk about Intel'sD financials meeting , exceeding or not meeting analysts' bets^H^H^H^HI Estimates. And if the analysts didn't like Intel's financialsm Andy Grovep would be thrown out quickly.  K Fact is that IA64 spending has been going on for so long that it is alreadydL built-into Intel's normal, regular overhead. As long as the spending doesn'tL increase, Wall Street sees IA64 spending in the same way as it sees spendingA to pay the cleaners to sweep the floors at the Intel head office.c  / > Yes, they are.  But delays of 4 years aren't.   L Only 4 years ?. Besides, how many yeasr was EV6 delayed ? How many years was EV7 delayed for Alpha ?L) How many years was windows "95 delayed ? -     >  And a list ofB > disasters as long and severe as those associated with the Itanic > certainly isn't.  L But to the laymen, it isn't a disaster. It is a brand new technology that isH bound to revolutionize the world. Heck, Compaq and HP calls it "industry standard" already.  N And it isn't a disaster. A disaster is something you don't expect. The bloatedM nature of IA64 made it obvious years ago that it would fly like a fat bloated L pig. But as long as it flies, Intel can sell it and because it has the IntelB logo on it, it automatically gets "industry standard" label to it.    B > Several major OEMs have been SERIOUSLY shafted by Intel over theA > Itanic (SGI being by far the worst hit, but by no means alone),m  J Any company who commits so seriously to vapourware, especially when it theM constraints imposed in it would prevent it from being the best in the market,  is a stupid company.  L At least Compaq, when it murdered Alpha, did admit that IA64 wouldn't becomeK viable for serious computing until at the very least 2004. In reality, thatS7 date is likely to move to 2006 based on Intel's record.e  6 > and I doubt that any of them trust Intel any longer.  J Compaq and HP trust Intel so much that HP got Compaq to murder a perfectlyJ good chip that was better than what IA64 could ever be. We don't know whatN sort of deal was behind this, but clearly Intel is doing something right if itM can convince such companies to step forwards on the plank, ready to jump inton a big huge black hole.    B > variants.  If McKinley slips badly or fails they will, too.  And: > the Alpha team IA-64 is unlikely to appear before 2005.   M Do we know that the ex-Alpha engineers were assigned to IA64 ? Could they notfK have been assigned to the 8086 line ? After all, since the Pentium III, thew9 8086 has had more "alpha inside" than IA64 currently has.-       > NOBODYB > is going to wait for that if the McKinley line is a fiasco - not
 > even Intel.a  L Compaq and HP seem to be perfectly happy and willing to wait. Of course, forJ the past yera, anything done by Compaq is really doen to please Carly, andG since IA64 is partly HP's baby, then it is normal that Carly's maternaln instincts will protect IA64.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:38:17 +0000 (UTC) / From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee>m Subject: Re: Itanium troublesr2 Message-ID: <1014237495.87997@haldjas.folklore.ee>  6 In comp.arch Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:   [snip]   > B > Several major OEMs have been SERIOUSLY shafted by Intel over theA > Itanic (SGI being by far the worst hit, but by no means alone),$D > and I doubt that any of them trust Intel any longer.  Also, havingC > been treated like dirt by Intel for so long, they don't have muchDE > loyalty, either.  Another 12 months delay is likely to trigger themm6 > into considering abandoning the IA-64 line entirely.  E I can see a reply from Alexis comping 8-) But I'm not sure SGI is thesH worst hit if IA-64 turns out to have been a soap-bubble. First hit, yes.   > 
 > Regards, > Nick Maclaren,, > University of Cambridge Computing Service,@ > New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. > Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk1 > Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    --   	Sanderx   +++ Out of cheese error +++    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:10:23 -05005 From: Christopher Brian Colohan <colohan+@cs.cmu.edu>  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 1 Message-ID: <ucleljfx3k0.fsf@gs138.sp.cs.cmu.edu>t  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:.O > Do we know that the ex-Alpha engineers were assigned to IA64 ? Could they notVM > have been assigned to the 8086 line ? After all, since the Pentium III, the-; > 8086 has had more "alpha inside" than IA64 currently has.g  E It appears that for advanced development, approximately "all of them"aE are now working on IA64.  Many of them attended HPCA this year, sincec$ it was in their home town and all...   Chris1 -- eK Chris Colohan  Email: chris@colohan.ca       PGP: finger colohan@cs.cmu.edu : 	       Web: www.cs.cmu.edu/~colohan  Phone: (412)268-4751   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2002 21:39:37 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <a5152p$gb4$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  2 In article <1014237495.87997@haldjas.folklore.ee>,1 Sander Vesik  <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote:w7 >In comp.arch Nick Maclaren <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote:  > C >> Several major OEMs have been SERIOUSLY shafted by Intel over the0B >> Itanic (SGI being by far the worst hit, but by no means alone),E >> and I doubt that any of them trust Intel any longer.  Also, having$D >> been treated like dirt by Intel for so long, they don't have muchF >> loyalty, either.  Another 12 months delay is likely to trigger them7 >> into considering abandoning the IA-64 line entirely.o >sF >I can see a reply from Alexis comping 8-) But I'm not sure SGI is theI >worst hit if IA-64 turns out to have been a soap-bubble. First hit, yes.o  E What I meant was that it WAS the worst hit - by the Itanic.  It won'trB be the worst hit by anything following, as the MIPS development isA now back on course.  My candidate for the worst hit by a McKinleyu, fiasco, if that occurs, would be Compaq ....     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679l   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2002 21:37:19 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troublesm0 Message-ID: <a514uf$g8r$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3C740793.1E8D10E7@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e >Nick Maclaren wrote: C >> The Intel IA-64 project no longer attracts the adulation that it,B >> did, even in Wall Street.  My point is that another delay would? >> almost certainly turn the current irrational confidence intoe
 >> disbelief.  > M >I rarely hear mention on IA64 on business news. They just talk about Intel'sdE >financials meeting , exceeding or not meeting analysts' bets^H^H^H^H J >Estimates. And if the analysts didn't like Intel's financialsm Andy Grove >would be thrown out quickly.i  D Up until 2000, all of the comments on IA-64 were positive; from 2001C on, many of them weren't.  You are right that they will say nothingaD very rude and certainly do nothing, until and unless the bottom line' starts to be a problem.  But see below.   L >Fact is that IA64 spending has been going on for so long that it is alreadyM >built-into Intel's normal, regular overhead. As long as the spending doesn't M >increase, Wall Street sees IA64 spending in the same way as it sees spendingeB >to pay the cleaners to sweep the floors at the Intel head office.  ? It's not the spending that matters - it's not having a suitableh@ product to sell!  The margins on medium- to high-end servers are? FAR higher than those for desktops and below, and the customerscA buying those are increasingly demanding 64-bit support.  Within a A year or two, Intel's lack of a product will be a serious problem, B which is why Intel has set up its skunkworks as a fallback in case the McKinley does autodestruct.a  0 >> Yes, they are.  But delays of 4 years aren't. >iM >Only 4 years ?. Besides, how many yeasr was EV6 delayed ? How many years was- >EV7 delayed for Alpha ?* >How many years was windows "95 delayed ?   F Yes, they occur.  No, they aren't standard.  Compaq's delays lost themE their markets, and Microsoft were never in a position of not having ad% product to sell.  Intel were and are.    >>  And a list of.C >> disasters as long and severe as those associated with the Itanic@ >> certainly isn't.: > M >But to the laymen, it isn't a disaster. It is a brand new technology that islI >bound to revolutionize the world. Heck, Compaq and HP calls it "industry  >standard" already.d  A They have been saying that since 1996.  But terms like "disaster"p? have been appearing in the papers that laymen read for the pastl9 6 months.  What you say WAS true, but is decreasingly so.-  O >And it isn't a disaster. A disaster is something you don't expect. The bloatedaN >nature of IA64 made it obvious years ago that it would fly like a fat bloatedM >pig. But as long as it flies, Intel can sell it and because it has the IntelIC >logo on it, it automatically gets "industry standard" label to it.   A The Itanic sank.  Intel did not expect that.  Not even I expectedeB quite such a spectacular failure.  Note that I am NOT just talkingC about performance and delay, but the fact that it plain didn't work0C and (despite being reengineered AFTER tape-out) couldn't be made toH work.e  C >> Several major OEMs have been SERIOUSLY shafted by Intel over theeB >> Itanic (SGI being by far the worst hit, but by no means alone), >tK >Any company who commits so seriously to vapourware, especially when it thelN >constraints imposed in it would prevent it from being the best in the market, >is a stupid company.w  2 That may well be so.  It doesn't change my points.  M >At least Compaq, when it murdered Alpha, did admit that IA64 wouldn't becomeeL >viable for serious computing until at the very least 2004. In reality, that8 >date is likely to move to 2006 based on Intel's record.  @ No, Compaq said that THEY wouldn't be able to use it for seriousA computing until then - it was a matter of porting their software.-  7 >> and I doubt that any of them trust Intel any longer.1 > K >Compaq and HP trust Intel so much that HP got Compaq to murder a perfectly K >good chip that was better than what IA64 could ever be. We don't know whatnO >sort of deal was behind this, but clearly Intel is doing something right if it N >can convince such companies to step forwards on the plank, ready to jump into >a big huge black hole.h  E HP trusted Intel so much that they kept the PA-RISC development goingm! even after announcing its demise.t  @ Compaq had killed Alpha long before the HP-Compaq deal was heardA of any anyone except a handful of principals.  Nobody in the know @ was under any illusion about that - until last summer, it was at; least theoretically possible that the Alpha might have been28 resuscitated, but that is what would have been involved.  C >> variants.  If McKinley slips badly or fails they will, too.  And ; >> the Alpha team IA-64 is unlikely to appear before 2005. . >nN >Do we know that the ex-Alpha engineers were assigned to IA64 ? Could they notL >have been assigned to the 8086 line ? After all, since the Pentium III, the: >8086 has had more "alpha inside" than IA64 currently has.  + Yes, with a reasonable degree of certainty.,  	 >> NOBODY>C >> is going to wait for that if the McKinley line is a fiasco - nots >> even Intel. > M >Compaq and HP seem to be perfectly happy and willing to wait. Of course, forlK >the past yera, anything done by Compaq is really doen to please Carly, and H >since IA64 is partly HP's baby, then it is normal that Carly's maternal >instincts will protect IA64.o  B No way.  HP will continue to market PA-RISC.  And Compaq may wait;B but, if there is no viable IA-64 until 2005 (which means no Compaq? IA-64 system until 2006), Compaq will go broke before delivery.i     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:30:26 -0500a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h Subject: Re: Itanium troublesi, Message-ID: <3C74237D.7594C1F0@videotron.ca>   Nick Maclaren wrote:A > It's not the spending that matters - it's not having a suitablen > product to sell! .  M From the Wall Street Analyst's point of view, Intel sells plenty of 8086s foriK PCs and servers and that is about all that Intel does that is big enough to J matter.  (they may be aware that Intel does other stuff than the 8086, butN they probably see that as icing on the cake). So the lack of IA64 does nothing6 to Intel since it has the 8086 has mainstream product.  J Remember that Wall Street Analysts only look from quarter to quarter. LongP term for them is looking 2 quarters ahead. So Hammer is science fiction to them.  C > year or two, Intel's lack of a product will be a serious problem,pD > which is why Intel has set up its skunkworks as a fallback in case! > the McKinley does autodestruct.s  J Currently, despite their stated plans to consolidate all their machines onN IA64, HP (and its sibbling Compaq) have no plans to abandon the 8086 from both desktop and server markets.m  N So, if Intel comes out with a 64 bit 8086, there is no reason to think that HPK couldn't have IA64 for its legacy/proprietary products (HP-UX and VMS if it H survives and Tandem) and the 64 bit 8086 for its mainstream low cost/low margin products.  / > The Itanic sank.  Intel did not expect that. o  G Oh, come on. I had some presentations done by Digital during the CompaqeE takeover/integration where the Digital engineers made very convincingtM presentations on why IA64 would not fly anywhere as fast as predicted and howsO Intel would have problems producing it economically due it ist very large size.t As if Intel didn't know that.s     > Not even I expectedh# > quite such a spectacular failure.v  L The thing isn't out yet. Merced/Itanium is just the "beta".  It is too early+ to use words such as "spectacular failure"..  B > No, Compaq said that THEY wouldn't be able to use it for seriousC > computing until then - it was a matter of porting their software.t  K The message was that IA64 woudn't possibly have any respectable performanceeG until at least 2004 and until then, Compaq woudl still sell Alpha based>= systems. This was said in conjunction with porting schedules.o  G > HP trusted Intel so much that they kept the PA-RISC development goingr# > even after announcing its demise.e  G Hadn't HP cancelled PA-Risc development and then restarted it once they " realised how late Intel would be ?  B > Compaq had killed Alpha long before the HP-Compaq deal was heard/ > of any anyone except a handful of principals.e  K Compaq might have been on a slow "kill Alpha" course for a couple of years,eL with the first tangible sign being the killing of Windows on Alpha, however,J Carly did state that she had been in talks with Curly for many many monthsJ prior to the HP takeover announcement, so the timing of the official AlphaL murder would have been done while Curly was deeply engaged with Carly in the takeover talks.   D > No way.  HP will continue to market PA-RISC.  And Compaq may wait;D > but, if there is no viable IA-64 until 2005 (which means no CompaqA > IA-64 system until 2006), Compaq will go broke before delivery.,  L Non sequitur. Compaq ceases to exist MArch 19th.  One has to assume that allL decisions taken at high levels by Compaq (Winkler and up) in 2001 would have? been in view of being taken over by HP and starting the product- rationalisation process.  N When Pfeiffer bought Digital, he admitted having been in talks with Palmer forS 3 years, advising Palmer on how to best shape Digital to be a attractive to Compaq.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:38:13 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n Subject: Re: Itanium troublesr, Message-ID: <3C742550.2B04EB12@videotron.ca>   Nick Maclaren wrote:C > now back on course.  My candidate for the worst hit by a McKinleyt. > fiasco, if that occurs, would be Compaq ....  K Compaq need not be concerned by the future. For one thing, Compaq ceases tofJ exist well before McKinley. Secondly, the only "Compaq" products that haveN reasonable assurance of survival under HP are the wintel server, Tandem stuff,
 and handheld.e  N Wintel servers have nothing to worry about since they will remain on 8086s for8 some time to come (due to the availability of software).  I Tandem has never been that concerned about performance per say, they needoF quality and stability and they are scaled to have multiple processors.  A Handhelds are on strongarm, so unaffected by the 8086/IA64 thing.w   Tru64 is dead.  N VMS will be available on IA64, but customers are likely not to be bothered andN just stay on Alpha until they can't buy anymore Alphas, at which point, eitherN IA64 will work respectably, VMS will be dead anyways, or some othertarget will" have been selected for a VMS port.    J HP and Compaq are not stupid. They probably have a very good idea of where they want to go.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 2002 23:44:50 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troublest0 Message-ID: <a51cdi$ni9$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3C74237D.7594C1F0@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:v >Nick Maclaren wrote:eB >> It's not the spending that matters - it's not having a suitable >> product to sell!  > N >From the Wall Street Analyst's point of view, Intel sells plenty of 8086s forL >PCs and servers and that is about all that Intel does that is big enough toK >matter.  (they may be aware that Intel does other stuff than the 8086, butsO >they probably see that as icing on the cake). So the lack of IA64 does nothinge7 >to Intel since it has the 8086 has mainstream product.a  3 I like your viewpoint - Intel might not, though :-)s  0 >> The Itanic sank.  Intel did not expect that.  >yH >Oh, come on. I had some presentations done by Digital during the CompaqF >takeover/integration where the Digital engineers made very convincingN >presentations on why IA64 would not fly anywhere as fast as predicted and howP >Intel would have problems producing it economically due it ist very large size. >As if Intel didn't know that. >h >> Not even I expected$ >> quite such a spectacular failure. >aM >The thing isn't out yet. Merced/Itanium is just the "beta".  It is too earlyi, >to use words such as "spectacular failure".  E Eh?  I am not talking about performance.  I am talking about the factsD that the Itanic DID NOT AND DOES NOT WORK.  Even Dell gave up on it.  H >> HP trusted Intel so much that they kept the PA-RISC development going$ >> even after announcing its demise. > H >Hadn't HP cancelled PA-Risc development and then restarted it once they# >realised how late Intel would be ?    No.a  C >> Compaq had killed Alpha long before the HP-Compaq deal was heard-0 >> of any anyone except a handful of principals. >0L >Compaq might have been on a slow "kill Alpha" course for a couple of years,M >with the first tangible sign being the killing of Windows on Alpha, however,rK >Carly did state that she had been in talks with Curly for many many months K >prior to the HP takeover announcement, so the timing of the official AlpharM >murder would have been done while Curly was deeply engaged with Carly in theI >takeover talks.  D Yer wabba?  You clearly haven't been in the business of large system procurement.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679f   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:33:15 +0100 (MET) : From: nonews@lachemiserie.ch (la chemiseie traditionnelle)4 Subject: La Chemiserie Traditionnelle - Informations; Message-ID: <200202210433.g1L4XFd29727@capella.ip-plus.net>7  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C05A02.8AD62BA0-$ Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<         boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0031_01C05A02.8AD62BA0"  + ------=_NextPart_001_0031_01C05A02.8AD62BA0g Content-Type: text/html;         charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableo   =3c=21=44=4f=43=54=59=50=45=20=48=54=4d=4c=20=50=55=42=4c=49=43=20=22=2d=2f=2f=57=33=43=2f=2f=44=54=44=20=48=54=4d=4c=20=34=2e=30=20=54=72=61=6e=73=69=74=69=6f=6e=61=6c=2f=2f=45=4e=22=3e$ =3c=48=54=4d=4c=3e=3c=48=45=41=44=3e =3c=4d=45=54=41=20=68=74=74=70=2d=65=71=75=69=76=3d=43=6f=6e=74=65=6e=74=2d=54=79=70=65=20=63=6f=6e=74=65=6e=74=3d=22=74=65=78=74=2f=68=74=6d=6c=3b=20=63=68=61=72=73=65=74=3d=77=69=6e=64=6f=77=73=2d=31=32=35=32=22=3e =3c=4d=45=54=41=20=63=6f=6e=74=65=6e=74=3d=22=4d=53=48=54=4d=4c=20=35=2e=35=30=2e=34=35=32=32=2e=31=38=30=30=22=20=6e=61=6d=65=3d=47=45=4e=45=52=41=54=4f=52=3e2- =3c=53=54=59=4c=45=3e=3c=2f=53=54=59=4c=45=3ek =3c=2f=48=45=41=44=3e:H =3c=62=6f=64=79=20=62=67=63=6f=6c=6f=72=3d=22=23=30=31=30=30=38=30=22=3e   =3c=74=61=62=6c=65=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=63=65=6c=6c=70=61=64=64=69=6e=67=3d=22=30=22=20=63=65=6c=6c=73=70=61=63=69=6e=67=3d=22=30=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=36=22=3e =20=20=3c=74=72=3e_=20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=31=38=31=22=3e=3c=69=6d=67=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=73=72=63=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=69=6d=61=67=65=73=6d=61=69=6c=2f=67=31=2e=67=69=66=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=31=38=31=22=20=68=65=69=67=68=74=3d=22=31=32=34=22=3e=3c=2f=74=64=3ene=20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=34=32=31=22=3e=3c=69=6d=67=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=73=72=63=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=69=6d=61=67=65=73=6d=61=69=6c=2f=74=78=74=31=2e=67=69=66=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=34=31=36=22=20=68=65=69=67=68=74=3d=22=31=32=34=22=3e=3c=2f=74=64=3ea =20=20=3c=2f=74=72=3et =20=20=3c=74=72=3e` =20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=32=22=20=63=6f=6c=73=70=61=6e=3d=22=32=22=3ez=20=20=20=20=20=20=3c=70=20=61=6c=69=67=6e=3d=22=63=65=6e=74=65=72=22=3e=3c=69=6d=67=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=73=72=63=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=69=6d=61=67=65=73=6d=61=69=6c=2f=74=78=74=32=2e=67=69=66=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=35=39=39=22=20=68=65=69=67=68=74=3d=22=39=36=22=3e=3c=2f=70=3e=3c=2f=74=64=3e =20=20=3c=2f=74=72=3en =20=20=3c=74=72=3e` =20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=32=22=20=63=6f=6c=73=70=61=6e=3d=22=32=22=3en=20=20=20=20=20=20=3c=70=20=61=6c=69=67=6e=3d=22=63=65=6e=74=65=72=22=3e=3c=69=6d=67=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=73=72=63=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=69=6d=61=67=65=73=6d=61=69=6c=2f=74=78=74=33=2e=67=69=66=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=35=39=39=22=20=68=65=69=67=68=74=3d=22=39=36=22=3e=3c=2f=74=64=3e =20=20=3c=2f=74=72=3et =20=20=3c=74=72=3e` =20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=32=22=20=63=6f=6c=73=70=61=6e=3d=22=32=22=3e8=20=20=20=20=20=20=3c=69=6d=67=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=73=72=63=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=69=6d=61=67=65=73=6d=61=69=6c=2f=74=78=74=35=2e=67=69=66=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=30=22=20=68=65=69=67=68=74=3d=22=38=34=22=3e=3c=2f=74=64=3e =20=20=3c=2f=74=72=3eA =20=20=3c=74=72=3e` =20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=32=22=20=63=6f=6c=73=70=61=6e=3d=22=32=22=3e =20=20=20=20=20=20=3c=61=20=68=72=65=66=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=6d=61=69=6c=69=6e=67=2e=70=68=70=22=20=74=61=72=67=65=74=3d=22=5f=62=6c=61=6e=6b=22=3e=3c=69=6d=67=20=62=6f=72=64=65=72=3d=22=30=22=20=73=72=63=3d=22=68=74=74=70=3a=2f=2f=77=77=77=2e=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=2f=69=6d=61=67=65=73=6d=61=69=6c=2f=74=78=74=34=2e=67=69=66=22=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=35=39=39=22=20=68=65=69=67=68=74=3d=22=34=39=22=3e=3c=2f=61=3e=3c=2f=7 4=64=3e  =20=20=3c=2f=74=72=3ey =20=20=3c=74=72=3e =20=20=20=20=3c=74=64=20=77=69=64=74=68=3d=22=36=30=32=22=20=63=6f=6c=73=70=61=6e=3d=22=32=22=3e=3c=66=6f=6e=74=20=73=69=7a=65=3d=22=32=22=3e=3c=66=6f=6e=74=20=63=6f=6c=6f=72=3d=22=23=46=46=46=46=46=46=22=3e=4c=61n>=20=20=20=20=20=20=43=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=20=54=72=61=64=69=74=69=6f=6e=65=6c=6c=65=20=2d=20=32=39=2c=20=71=75=61=69=20=64=65=73=20=42=65=72=67=75=65=73=20=2d=31=32=30=31=20=47=65=6e=e8=76=65=20=2d=3c=2f=66=6f=6e=74=3e=3c=66=6f=6e=74=20=63=6f=6c=6f=72=3d=22=23=46=46=46=46=30=30=22=3e=20=28=50=6f=75=72=20=6e=65M=20=20=20=20=20=20=70=6c=75=73=20=72=65=63=65=76=6f=69=72=20=64=27=69=6e=66=6f=73=20=3a=20=3c=61=20=68=72=65=66=3d=22=6d=61=69=6c=74=6f=3a=6e=6f=6e=65=77=73=40=6c=61=63=68=65=6d=69=73=65=72=69=65=2e=63=68=22=3e=3c=66=6f=6e=74=20=63=6f=6c=6f=72=3d=22=23=46=46=46=46=30=30=22=3e=6e=6f=6e=65=77=73=2e=3c=2f=61=3e=29=3c=2f=66=6f=6e=74=3ee6 =20=20=20=20=20=20=3c=2f=66=6f=6e=74=3e=3c=2f=74=64=3e =20=20=3c=2f=74=72=3et =3c=2f=74=61=62=6c=65=3e  * =3c=2f=62=6f=64=79=3e=3c=2f=48=54=4d=4c=3e    - ------=_NextPart_001_0031_01C05A02.8AD62BA0--t  - ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C05A02.8AD62BA0--I   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:47:43 -0800+ From: stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin)e" Subject: lib$wait does not wait...< Message-ID: <fdd7874.0202201347.7f93ccb2@posting.google.com>  F In a detached process using sys$hiber and sys$wake in ASTs, I have theC problem that a lib$wait call does not wait long enough. The processsE gets awaken before the end of the wait period. I suppose this relatescA to lib$wait being in fact translated to sys$schdwk, sys$hiber andmD sys$wake and that an IO call completes, the AST is fired and makes a	 sys$wake.t  < Now once this is understood, how can I make sure the processF effectively waits for the specified amount of time ? What other system services should I use ?s  % Thanks everyone for your suggestions.  Stephane   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:46:01 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h& Subject: Re: lib$wait does not wait...3 Message-ID: <$$EdwzsPPpbh@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  j In article <fdd7874.0202201347.7f93ccb2@posting.google.com>, stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin) writes:  > > Now once this is understood, how can I make sure the processH > effectively waits for the specified amount of time ? What other system > services should I use ?c   Use $SETIMR with an AST.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:03:31 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: lib$wait does not wait..., Message-ID: <3C742B3B.D093EAE7@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:@ > > Now once this is understood, how can I make sure the processJ > > effectively waits for the specified amount of time ? What other system > > services should I use ?  >  > Use $SETIMR with an AST.  M Actually, in the main program, you should use $SETIMR , setting an event flagpH and then $WAITFR to wait for the flag to be set. The wait is done in LEFC without hibernation, so any sys$WAKEs from the AST won't affect it.r  L HOWEVER: bear in mind that a SYS$WAKE from an AST while the mainline programQ is running will result in the next $HIBER doing nothing (eg: program continuing).   G What you can do is set a variable in your program to "ACTIVE" when your>N mainline is doing stuff, and to "SLEEPING" just before you call SYS$HIBER. AndL in your AST, you only trigger SYS$WAKE if the variable is set to "SLEEPING".  I (to be pedantic, there is the risk of the ast being delivered between thee) variable = "SLEEPING" and the SYS$HIBER).b   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:25:51 +0000 (UTC)w, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c0m>& Subject: Re: lib$wait does not wait...1 Message-ID: <a520cv$6en$1@knossos.btinternet.com>    Hi,u  L If you're not in an AST try the lib$k_nowake flag. The Rdb (or VMS?) releaseK notes have a good description of what happens and an algorithm for ensuringe# that your $wake is for your $hiber.:   Regards Richard Maher.  6 SPaquin <stephane_paquin@hotmail.com> wrote in message6 news:fdd7874.0202201347.7f93ccb2@posting.google.com...H > In a detached process using sys$hiber and sys$wake in ASTs, I have theE > problem that a lib$wait call does not wait long enough. The process G > gets awaken before the end of the wait period. I suppose this relatesnC > to lib$wait being in fact translated to sys$schdwk, sys$hiber andwF > sys$wake and that an IO call completes, the AST is fired and makes a > sys$wake.d > > > Now once this is understood, how can I make sure the processH > effectively waits for the specified amount of time ? What other system > services should I use ?  >s' > Thanks everyone for your suggestions.h
 > Stephane   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:12:33 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: MicroVAX Crashi- Message-ID: <lIYc8.7$fL6.76@news.cpqcorp.net>f  Q In article <200202192250.TAA16338@wilde.uol.com.br>, valdemir-@uol.com.br writes:s :Please, see this case:  : > : A MicroVAX3100/95, OpenVMS 5.5-2H4 installled, 7 DS-RZ1DF-VW@ : disks, SCSI; When I try restore a RDB database from a magtape,? : (using the command RMU/RESTORE), the system crash. Nothing is @ : logged in operator.log, nothin is founded using analyze/crash. :e% : What's happening with this system ?n  D   As we are further removed from the problem, we are correspondingly(   less likely to recognize this crash!    H   You say "the system crash".  While the details of the behaviour might H   be obvious to the viewer, exactly how do you know this occurs?  (What    happens?)g  G   What (if anything) is written to the console when the problem occurs?n  3   Are your OpenVMS VAX and Oracle Rdb ECOs current?e     Which tape drive?   G   One thing that does stand out here, these RZ1DF UltraSCSI drives are rH   rated at 9.1GB, and OpenVMS VAX releases prior to V6.0 cannot address L   disks of 8.38GB (16777216 blocks) and larger.  (Storage devices typically I   use base-10 measurements for capacity and OpenVMS uses base-2, and even K   though my arithmatic is bad today, this looks like you might be over the o   addressing limits here.)  J   On no symptoms and no particular evidence beyond an assumption that you G   have successfully used this sequence before, have you contacted your nD   hardware support organization for assistance troubleshooting this?  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:12:00 +1200q& From: A Bonaveidogo <Asena@fsc.com.fj> Subject: RE: Oracle RDB v7.0-1G Message-ID: <BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FF6155E8@EXCHSVR.FSC.COM.FJ>e  # Its ok now.  I re-installed Gembasen  
 thanks a lot      -----Original Message-----t2 From: 	danco@pebble.org [mailto:danco@pebble.org] ) Sent:	Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:07 AMh To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd Subject:	Re: Oracle RDB v7.0-1  @ In article <3C73B943.79F79041@oracle.com>, norm lastovica wrote:  G >>         %GSR-E-DB-UNKNOWN, database is not known to specified enginep > 	but first - what is GSR?)  
 Let me guess.b  ? He appears to be invoking his database through another product.h; In this case the product appears to be GEMBASE.  GSR is thee9 facility message code for the GEMBASE Standard Relational = Interface (an unregistered facility code)  GSRI is a databasen9 independant API layer above several other database enginet= specific (RMS, RDB, Oracle, MSSQL, etc) layers in the GEMBASEm product.  = However, the reason that GEMBASE can't invoke the database is-< likely to be environmental (e.g., that the version of RDB in; question hasn't been properly started, etc).  Can he invoke:: the database with RDO either?  Probably not.  However, the2 error message from RDO might be more illuminating.   - Dand   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:57:35 GMTC From: danco@pebble.org Subject: Re: Oracle RDB v7.0-1- Message-ID: <slrna783e0.97m.danco@pebble.org>b  G In article <BFBEDDF2CFEDD411917400508BF3A6FF6155E8@EXCHSVR.FSC.COM.FJ>,a A Bonaveidogo wrote:  % > Its ok now.  I re-installed Gembasef  B Ouch, overkill.  If this happens again, try the following instead:   $ @GEM_LIB:GEM_DSRI8  @ That re-links GEMBASE's RDB interface (GEM_DSRI_RTL.EXE) againstD whatever version of RDB you're currently running.  If you're runningB multiple versions of RDB, you _might_ need to have multiple copiesA of GEM_DSRI_RTL.EXE and switch amongst them with the GEM_DSRI_RTLA logical.   - Dan          >  > thanks a lot a >  >  -----Original Message-----l4 > From: 	danco@pebble.org [mailto:danco@pebble.org] + > Sent:	Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:07 AMi > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb  > Subject:	Re: Oracle RDB v7.0-1 > B > In article <3C73B943.79F79041@oracle.com>, norm lastovica wrote: > H >>>         %GSR-E-DB-UNKNOWN, database is not known to specified engine >> 	but first - what is GSR? >  > Let me guess.F > A > He appears to be invoking his database through another product.:= > In this case the product appears to be GEMBASE.  GSR is thea; > facility message code for the GEMBASE Standard RelationalM? > Interface (an unregistered facility code)  GSRI is a databasee; > independant API layer above several other database engine ? > specific (RMS, RDB, Oracle, MSSQL, etc) layers in the GEMBASE'
 > product. > ? > However, the reason that GEMBASE can't invoke the database iso> > likely to be environmental (e.g., that the version of RDB in= > question hasn't been properly started, etc).  Can he invokee< > the database with RDO either?  Probably not.  However, the4 > error message from RDO might be more illuminating. >  > - Danu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:34:55 GMTa4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>5 Subject: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows" 0 Message-ID: <3C743188.E8898616@blueyonder.co.uk>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  eD > As to pollution, e-mail me privately (anyone!) and I'll share someG > long-lost research (*NOT* mine! let me make that unmistakably clear!)yD > with you. It's possible today, and it's been possible for going onH > twenty(20) years - without tons of batteries and without combustion ofI > any kind. One of the necessary elements is radioactive (deuterium), thes > other (gallium) is not.   aK according to a recent motoring programon TV in the UK people are convertingi, diesel cars to run on ordinary cooking oil.    -- . Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  h  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of s! my employers or service provider.P   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:15:36 GMTt1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a9 Subject: Re: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows"e' Message-ID: <3C7467BC.4B170F36@fsi.net>m   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > F > > As to pollution, e-mail me privately (anyone!) and I'll share someI > > long-lost research (*NOT* mine! let me make that unmistakably clear!)fF > > with you. It's possible today, and it's been possible for going onJ > > twenty(20) years - without tons of batteries and without combustion ofK > > any kind. One of the necessary elements is radioactive (deuterium), thea > > other (gallium) is not.  > M > according to a recent motoring programon TV in the UK people are convertingo- > diesel cars to run on ordinary cooking oil.r  & Is it any cheaper/cleaner than diesel?   -- m David J. Dachtera1 dba DJE Systems: http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:06:58 GMTh4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"/ Message-ID: <3C7400CB.C5AAAFA@blueyonder.co.uk>f   David Beatty wrote:a > 7 > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:20:07 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"n  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:  a > >Band-aid solution, at best. > ? >     True, but as long as the application keeps running and nom6 > transactions are lost, what difference does it make? >   o> well, if you are happy using an OS that can't cope with I/O to3 the floppy disk and a serial port simultaneously...=     -- 5 Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of =! my employers or service provider.7   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:11:06 -050045 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>6$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"2 Message-ID: <0BB0PHmBKQ7g0bgZd7xue8vMxoEK@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:06:58 GMT, Tim Llewellyn=' <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:=   >= >4 >David Beatty wrote: >>  8 >> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:20:07 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"! >> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:= >  >> >Band-aid solution, at best.0 >> 0@ >>     True, but as long as the application keeps running and no7 >> transactions are lost, what difference does it make?c >> 0 > ? >well, if you are happy using an OS that can't cope with I/O to24 >the floppy disk and a serial port simultaneously...  # It would seem that many people are.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:51:52 GMT74 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>$ Subject: Re: OT: "Crashless Windows"0 Message-ID: <3C743581.4148D6EA@blueyonder.co.uk>   David Beatty wrote:= > 1 > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:06:58 GMT, Tim Llewellyn4) > <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:3 >  > >7 > >2 > >David Beatty wrote: > >>: > >> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:20:07 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"# > >> <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote:6 > >6! > >> >Band-aid solution, at best.3 > >>B > >>     True, but as long as the application keeps running and no9 > >> transactions are lost, what difference does it make?t > >> > >=A > >well, if you are happy using an OS that can't cope with I/O to=6 > >the floppy disk and a serial port simultaneously... > % > It would seem that many people are.4  N yes, I assumed hardened comp.os.vms readers would assume a tinge of sarcasm in my comment.f  & But, would those happy people be happy, if they knew anything about race conditions?   -- 4 Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  =  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of =! my employers or service provider.7   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 04:16:18 GMT2' From: fraley@usfca.edu (Michael Fraley)2 Subject: PGP for OpenVMS?=; Message-ID: <slrna78tns.7t.fraley@cumquat.ca.sprintbbd.net>9   Hello,  B Does anyone know if there is a PGP port for OpenVMS? We would like> to use it on our OpenVMS boxes. Any help would be appreciated!   -- 6     Michael Fraley   fraley@usfca.edu   http://www.usfca.edu/~fraley   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:51:49 -0500=* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: Re: PGP for OpenVMS?d. Message-ID: <3C743695.20558.B9E7D59@localhost>  D > Does anyone know if there is a PGP port for OpenVMS? We would like@ > to use it on our OpenVMS boxes. Any help would be appreciated!   Well, yes and no.2  > For non-commercial use, PGP version 2.7 is available.  It can C interoperate with the latest versions of PGP (6.5, last I checked) 8A only if the 6.5 site installs some obscure "compatibility mode").e  D For commercial use, ViaCrypt licensed and sold 2.7 for VMS (VAX and D Alpha).  However, they were bought out some years ago by the people ? who own PGP (Network Associates?), and VMS support was dropped.2  C I contacted the new company about getting an update, and they said 5C they'd be glad to resurrect the product for $100,000.  My client's =) running all PGP through a Unix box now...f    
 --Stan Quayle6! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.6  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671d1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147== Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com0   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 11:04:08 -0800$ From: czajanek@scholze.de (Czajanek)F Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare= Message-ID: <c6aeb53c.0202201104.6154247c@posting.google.com>2  e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<52377ukabhi0n0luannvgi8rgjjcs5ufsg@4ax.com>...1F > On 20 Feb 2002 03:13:38 -0800, czajanek@scholze.de (Czajanek) wrote: >  >  > >3? > >Our Platform is Alpha 2100 4/275, 3CPU, 1GB RAM, 80 MB SCSI,4< > >OpenVMS 7.2.1 with serveral ECO's, Advanced Server 7.2 A. > >7D > >We have tested (we hope we have tested ;-) all performance screwsD > >we could reach. The only screw we couldn't reach is the describedD > >one because we have TCPware and not UCX. The Performance increaseH > >by using the described parameter was tested by Compaq and we need it. > H > I know of sites which have dropped Pathworks precisely because of thisG > problem and have informed Compaq. Despite this the last I was told itfE > was not a priority fix due to design limitations. TCPWARE vendor is8E > absolutely correct that pathworks should provide the config options-E > and not force a system manager to change global params just to worka > around Pathworks stupidity.e  uG > Note I have seen performance increases close to 1000% never mind 200%2# > when UCX is the underlying stack.  >  > >s > >Thank you for your response.s > >a > >U. Czajanek  C I love OpenVMS and i don't want to use Linux- or Microsoft- serverse8 to attach our PC-Clients. Are there any alternatives forB OpenVMS Advanced Server (formerly Pathworks) for the VMS-Platform?  < Buying UCX is too expensive, but performance increases up toB 1000% let my heart beat. If i can' t catch a solution I have to go* to my chief telling him to cancel OpenVMS.   Best Regards, long live OpenVMSe   U. Czajanekc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:13:13 +0100-$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>F Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare0 Message-ID: <PySc8.156$if3.4535@news.get2net.dk>  $ Does UCX actually cost anything ????   Dweeb.  1 "Czajanek" <czajanek@scholze.de> wrote in messagee7 news:c6aeb53c.0202201104.6154247c@posting.google.com... 2 > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 news:<52377ukabhi0n0luannvgi8rgjjcs5ufsg@4ax.com>...H > > On 20 Feb 2002 03:13:38 -0800, czajanek@scholze.de (Czajanek) wrote: > >  > >  > > >-A > > >Our Platform is Alpha 2100 4/275, 3CPU, 1GB RAM, 80 MB SCSI, > > > >OpenVMS 7.2.1 with serveral ECO's, Advanced Server 7.2 A. > > >oF > > >We have tested (we hope we have tested ;-) all performance screwsF > > >we could reach. The only screw we couldn't reach is the describedF > > >one because we have TCPware and not UCX. The Performance increaseJ > > >by using the described parameter was tested by Compaq and we need it. > >uJ > > I know of sites which have dropped Pathworks precisely because of thisI > > problem and have informed Compaq. Despite this the last I was told itiG > > was not a priority fix due to design limitations. TCPWARE vendor isEG > > absolutely correct that pathworks should provide the config options G > > and not force a system manager to change global params just to worki > > around Pathworks stupidity.t >vI > > Note I have seen performance increases close to 1000% never mind 200%d% > > when UCX is the underlying stack.$ > >. > > >n! > > >Thank you for your response.E > > >  > > >U. Czajanek >LE > I love OpenVMS and i don't want to use Linux- or Microsoft- serverse: > to attach our PC-Clients. Are there any alternatives forD > OpenVMS Advanced Server (formerly Pathworks) for the VMS-Platform? > > > Buying UCX is too expensive, but performance increases up toD > 1000% let my heart beat. If i can' t catch a solution I have to go, > to my chief telling him to cancel OpenVMS. > ! > Best Regards, long live OpenVMSV >)
 > U. Czajanek    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:14:16 -0600t+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>iF Subject: RE: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWareL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1A1A398A@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: czajanek@scholze.de [mailto:czajanek@scholze.de]  E > I love OpenVMS and i don't want to use Linux- or Microsoft- serverst: > to attach our PC-Clients. Are there any alternatives forD > OpenVMS Advanced Server (formerly Pathworks) for the VMS-Platform?  C I didn't catch the beginning of the thread, but have you consideredn Samba?   Christ    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");s 'e  n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:54:40 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>F Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare0 Message-ID: <3C73FDE9.5F8D7C7F@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > & > Does UCX actually cost anything ????  E only if your system doesn't have an appropriate NAS or EIP licence or5A whatever it is called this year. I guess older hardware might not  have this. f    -- t Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  S  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of i! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Feb 02 15:15:29 EST From: grant@rigel.cc.wmich.eduF Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare/ Message-ID: <K$ZYzSYgP8NT@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>u   Good point, Dr.o  F I went back to the 1996 Systems & Options Catalog, and the 2100A 4/275I came with the NAS200 license (QL-23EAG-AA) which included TCP/IP ServicessD for OpenVMS Alpha (as well as Motif, DCPS, Pathworks, DECnet, etc.).  + And I know that current systems include it.   F It shouldn't cost anything to switch -- in fact, it should save money.  K But I can't claim any experience with it, to know if it has other problems.n  W In article <PySc8.156$if3.4535@news.get2net.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> writes: & > Does UCX actually cost anything ???? >  > Dweeb. > 3 > "Czajanek" <czajanek@scholze.de> wrote in messagei9 > news:c6aeb53c.0202201104.6154247c@posting.google.com...e3 >> Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagel6 > news:<52377ukabhi0n0luannvgi8rgjjcs5ufsg@4ax.com>...I >> > On 20 Feb 2002 03:13:38 -0800, czajanek@scholze.de (Czajanek) wrote:- >> > >> > >> > >B >> > >Our Platform is Alpha 2100 4/275, 3CPU, 1GB RAM, 80 MB SCSI,? >> > >OpenVMS 7.2.1 with serveral ECO's, Advanced Server 7.2 A.  >> > >G >> > >We have tested (we hope we have tested ;-) all performance screws G >> > >we could reach. The only screw we couldn't reach is the describedcG >> > >one because we have TCPware and not UCX. The Performance increase1K >> > >by using the described parameter was tested by Compaq and we need it.  >> >K >> > I know of sites which have dropped Pathworks precisely because of thisnJ >> > problem and have informed Compaq. Despite this the last I was told itH >> > was not a priority fix due to design limitations. TCPWARE vendor isH >> > absolutely correct that pathworks should provide the config optionsH >> > and not force a system manager to change global params just to work  >> > around Pathworks stupidity. >>J >> > Note I have seen performance increases close to 1000% never mind 200%& >> > when UCX is the underlying stack. >> > >> > >" >> > >Thank you for your response. >> > > >> > >U. Czajanekt >>F >> I love OpenVMS and i don't want to use Linux- or Microsoft- servers; >> to attach our PC-Clients. Are there any alternatives forsE >> OpenVMS Advanced Server (formerly Pathworks) for the VMS-Platform?t >>? >> Buying UCX is too expensive, but performance increases up todE >> 1000% let my heart beat. If i can' t catch a solution I have to go - >> to my chief telling him to cancel OpenVMS.i >>" >> Best Regards, long live OpenVMS >> >> U. Czajanek >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:10:43 GMT  From: danco@pebble.orgF Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare- Message-ID: <slrna7846k.97m.danco@pebble.org>e  O In article <K$ZYzSYgP8NT@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>, grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote:o  M > But I can't claim any experience with it, to know if it has other problems.   F When I tested UCX against TCPWARE and MULTINET (about a year ago now),I the only failing of UCX appeared to be it's NFS server.  For some unknownMI reason the NFS server process kept going into 100% cpu-bound mode and had G to be stopped each time.  Neither TCPWARE not MULTINET had this problemtK (really old versions of TCPWARE once did the same thing, but not any more).TG Other than that, I had no problems with UCX.  However, we don't use UCX K day-to-day here.  We only run it very occasionally while doing TCP/IP stackn8 stress tests.  For day-to-day purposes, we run MULTINET.   - Dany   ------------------------------   Date: 20 FEB 2002 21:37:22 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)F Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare6 Message-ID: <20FEB02.21372200@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  < In a previous article, "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> wrote:& ->Does UCX actually cost anything ????  E Every Alphaserver (1000A, 1200, ES40) I've bought in the last severaliA years included a UCX or TCPIP license. Perhaps Czajanek's 2100 is  before that.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisont2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:10:37 -0500h; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>r  Subject: Re: print on OCE copier$ Message-ID: <3c73f4b3$1@news.si.com>  : >is it possible to print from vax-vms to copier OCE 3155 ?  J Of course.  The Oces support LPR/LPD.  We use ScriptServer from GrayMatterJ Software, but you can use the LPR/LPD that comes with your TCP/IP stack as well.2 --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comuA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com3= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent:< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:13:11 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS3 Message-ID: <It5fZCsxpyHf@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  \ In article <3C73EDA3.840B56CE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Bob Ceculski wrote:eF >> if they try to do the same to VMS, we will make a decision to never: >> purchase another single anything from Compaq/HP again!  > L > They have empirical evidence based on Palmer's experiment on the attritionC > rate. They would have factored that into any decision they make. M > P > According to Compaq, customers received the news of the downgrade to IA64 veryP > favourably and were very happy about it. I am sure HP will be able to spin theH > news of the downgrade from VMS to Linux or Windows just as favourably. >   ? 	Not so.  No more than HP can "sell" an MPE->HP/UX migration tohA 	their installed MPE base.  There are a ton of MPE users that are A 	using the native database on MPE called IMAGE.  There is no easyyA 	migration path no more than an easy migration path for VMS users H 	relying heavily on VMS particulars (ENQ/DEQ, QIO, RMS journalling,etc.)E 	.  Note, I am not suggesting it can't be done, just that it is very oD 	expensive.   The same can't/won't be said about Alpha->IA64.  In a @ 	very high percentage of migrations, recompile and test.... not  	massive code changeouts.b   					Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:33:56 -0500p- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>-2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS, Message-ID: <3C740827.946ABFF7@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:J >         using the native database on MPE called IMAGE.  There is no easyJ >         migration path no more than an easy migration path for VMS usersQ >         relying heavily on VMS particulars (ENQ/DEQ, QIO, RMS journalling,etc.)   H But just as HP intends to make it possible for Tru64 users to migrate toL HP-UX,  HP could announced that many VMS features will be ported to HP-UX to! make it easy to migrate from VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:24:39 -0700.+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>l2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS' Message-ID: <3C742227.1050706@mmaz.com>    Rob Young wrote:  % >will go away mad , like this fellow:1 >  >0* >http://news.com.com/2100-1001-275878.html >sN >"In my agency within the U.S. Department of Defense, we make extensive use ofM >HP 3000 systems," said Tim O'Neill, of the U.S. Army's Aberdeen Test Center.lO >"One certainty for our agency is that if they eliminate the 3000, we will thenh& >act to eliminate our 9000s as well.   >tP >"If HP thinks we will 'migrate' from MPE to HP-UX, they are mistaken," he said,J >referring to the operating systems associated with the two server lines.  >cB >	Sour grapes on his part?  Maybe he isn't relishing all the extra8 >	work ($$$) involved to come off MPE.  See 3) above.    >f >				Rob >d >s Hi Rob,t  H you made my point here regarding HPE and how VMS folks like myself will . react if the mishandling of VMS continues...    E Compaq is clueless to what the VMS community needs, in fact they are RG sending out goofy Education questionnaires trying to determine type of uG education support the VMS people have been screaming for, because that lC is what they seem to have interpreted as a lack of VMS Resources...    Regards,   Barry:   --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-70283   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 17:15:52 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202201715.29882cfb@posting.google.com>p  f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<It5fZCsxpyHf@eisner.encompasserve.org>...^ > In article <3C73EDA3.840B56CE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > > Bob Ceculski wrote:fH > >> if they try to do the same to VMS, we will make a decision to never< > >> purchase another single anything from Compaq/HP again!  > > N > > They have empirical evidence based on Palmer's experiment on the attritionE > > rate. They would have factored that into any decision they make. i > > R > > According to Compaq, customers received the news of the downgrade to IA64 veryR > > favourably and were very happy about it. I am sure HP will be able to spin theJ > > news of the downgrade from VMS to Linux or Windows just as favourably. > >  > A > 	Not so.  No more than HP can "sell" an MPE->HP/UX migration toyC > 	their installed MPE base.  There are a ton of MPE users that are C > 	using the native database on MPE called IMAGE.  There is no easyfC > 	migration path no more than an easy migration path for VMS userssJ > 	relying heavily on VMS particulars (ENQ/DEQ, QIO, RMS journalling,etc.)G > 	.  Note, I am not suggesting it can't be done, just that it is very 2F > 	expensive.   The same can't/won't be said about Alpha->IA64.  In a B > 	very high percentage of migrations, recompile and test.... not  > 	massive code changeouts.o > 
 > 					Rob  M that will not bother us a bit, a we were smart and keep our apps on Dibol/RMS(J as Synergys Dibol gui superset runs on vms, linux, unix, nt, os400 ... andK they have a DB that mimics RMS on other platforms ... it was cake for us totL move from Vax Dibol to Alpha Dibol and it will be just as easy to leave HP/Q if they try anything w/vms ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:13:15 -0500t( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS, Message-ID: <3C7449AB.1060502@tsoft-inc.com>   Rob Young wrote:  8  > In article <3C73EDA3.840B56CE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei)  > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:-  >  >> Bob Ceculski wrote:   >>bB  >>> if they try to do the same to VMS, we will make a decision toA  >>> never purchase another single anything from Compaq/HP again!s  >>>D  >> They have empirical evidence based on Palmer's experiment on theC  >> attrition rate. They would have factored that into any decisions  >> they make.  >> E  >> According to Compaq, customers received the news of the downgrade C  >> to IA64 very favourably and were very happy about it. I am sure A  >> HP will be able to spin the news of the downgrade from VMS to.(  >> Linux or Windows just as favourably.  >>e  >>   >D  > 	Not so.  No more than HP can "sell" an MPE->HP/UX migration to 	E  > their installed MPE base.  There are a ton of MPE users that are 	fE  > using the native database on MPE called IMAGE.  There is no easy 	pE  > migration path no more than an easy migration path for VMS users 	p8  > relying heavily on VMS particulars (ENQ/DEQ, QIO, RMSD  > journalling,etc.) 	.  Note, I am not suggesting it can't be done,C  > just that it is very  	expensive.   The same can't/won't be said A  > about Alpha->IA64.  In a  	very high percentage of migrations,t8  > recompile and test.... not  	massive code changeouts.  F Quite right.  There have probably been people who have feared for the I death of Alpha, and therefore VMS, for some years.  Some from the demise   of DEC, some from before that.  B When notified of the reality of their fears, and at the same time H offered the 'liferaft' of VMS being ported to IA-64, I'm sure there was E relief in some quarters.  The VAX to Alpha move was rather easy, and fI didn't require new applications, or re-implementation of applications in  @ a new environment.  The VMS port to IA-64 (and possibly others) I addresses such issues, and places VMS users is a very different position   than that enjoyed by MPE users.-  H While some are upset of the handling of Alpha EV8, and the current poor G performance of IA-64, they should still acknowledge that VMS users are eF being treated much better than MPE users.  Regardless of the reasons, H such size of the revenue stream, and possibly others, VMS users are, so H far, being given a relatively (with respect to MPE and others) painless  path to the future.g  D In contrast, another post indicated that HP declined to sell MPE to D another entity to allow support of MPE users, nor to opensource the D product.  HP is saying to their customers that they have to move to I another platform.  Since there is always one, I wonder which current MPE l& customer will stick with HP?  Suckers!   Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:34:38 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS, Message-ID: <3C745CA4.74E03540@videotron.ca>   David Froble wrote:n, > The VAX to Alpha move was rather easy, andJ > didn't require new applications, or re-implementation of applications in > a new environment.  K Unless you were in messaging where all your gateways could not be ported to J Alpha because Message Router was not ported. Remember that Digital used toJ have an extensive portfolio of applications and Palmer used the VAX->ALPHAJ excuse as a means to abandon many of those applications. There is not muchH left to abandon in a ALPHA->IA64 migration, but remember that Compaq hasL stated that products that are "mature" won't be ported with a few exceptions (such as FMS).    K When you look at decwindows applications such as DECwrite, DECcalc etc, howhF many of those will be ported to IA64 ? With the "hope" that affordableG workstation might be available on IA64, it won't do much of there is no * application left to make use of x-windows.  - > The VMS port to IA-64 (and possibly others)mJ > addresses such issues, and places VMS users is a very different position! > than that enjoyed by MPE users.e  M No, Not all all. Remember that MPE had originally been slated to be ported to L IA64, as was Tru64. So VMS *could* still be handled the same way as MPE. Not, saying it will or won't, just that it could.  H > performance of IA-64, they should still acknowledge that VMS users are+ > being treated much better than MPE users.e  L Are they ? What if the timing is different and HP has the same thing plannedM for VMS once it gets its hands on it ?  If Carly is smart, she would at leastPJ wait for HP-UX to get revamped with the Tru64 stuff, at which point cancelI further VMS development and invite customers to take advantage of all the-" clustering etc available on HP-UX.  E > In contrast, another post indicated that HP declined to sell MPE to>E > another entity to allow support of MPE users, nor to opensource thee
 > product.  K If they sell MPE as a viable unit, the lose 100% of customers to that othertK company. If they kill and bury MPE, they keep a certain percentage of thoseAD customers, initially a high percentage on maintence and then a lower6 percentage who decide to stay with HP and go to HP-UX.    L As far as irate customers defecting, one thing to take into consideration isM what customers already have. If they have other HP/Digital products in house,-# then it becomes harder to leave HP.m  L For instance, a customer pissed off at the death of Tru64 might want to dumpN HP ASAP, but if they also have some VMS and perhaps HP-UX, what are they to doL ? The cheapest solution is to stick with HP and migrate from Tru64 to HP-UX.  L When Digital was a one trick pony (VMS), then pissing off customers resultedK in them dropping their Digital products and going to HP or SUN. But this is F now different because customers have many different platforms from the  combined HP-Compaq organisation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:40:38 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)$ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ- Message-ID: <qeYc8.5$fL6.53@news.cpqcorp.net>h  ^ In article <3C6E8915.9AEF35D5@mailbag.com>, William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> writes:D :Hoff - if we were to get something like this together, would you beH :willing to add it as another section to the OpenVMS FAQ or host it as a :separate FAQ at Compaq?  H   I can get various documents hosted at the Compaq OpenVMS site and can H   also add links to websites within the existing OpenVMS FAQ.  (If thereG   is interest, I might well be able to get a "hobbyist corner" off the >J   main Compaq OpenVMS website -- though http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ F   would be another obvious site and useful resource for this purpose.)  F   I am also willing to add sections into the OpenVMS FAQ -- but pleaseH   realize that the aggregate size of the existing FAQ is getting rather H   large.  (I'm quite willing to add materials, but I have regularly had C   problems sending it out, with the sizes of the existing sections.aE   Through empirical testing :-), my local posting limit is currently .E   set to 200 blocks per "chunk", and of course I have five chunks...)d  C   I haven't yet found a good way to divide up the existing FAQ intobD   more topical-chunks, though the last reorganization of the FAQ wasG   intended as a start on this process.  I'm in the midst of completely wE   overhauling the format and structure of the OpenVMS FAQ right now, r8   so the next edition is going to look, um, different.    D   Of course this being usenet, you are also obviously entirely free %   to create and run your own FAQ. :-)e    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:18:09 GMT21 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>:$ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ' Message-ID: <3C746856.183D3F9A@fsi.net>8   Brass Christof wrote:e > [snip] > He wrote:gH > "a tutorial on how to use Forms (since it's on the hobbyist PAK list."  9 ...and you expect a newbie to understand the distinction?b   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:28:01 +0000 (UTC)a5 From: lewis@lumina.no-spam.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)N/ Subject: Re: question about SET DISPLAY commandW. Message-ID: <a514d1$jn2$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> writes in article <200202190719.IAA14736@sinet1.fom.fgan.de> dated Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:19:42 +0100 (MET):K >we do see a strange SET DISPLAY command behavior. We have an OpenVMS 7.1-2yJ >AXP cluster. We do create a display with the SET DISPLAY /CREATE command.F >Then we create detached terminals (one to four) and exit the creationJ >process. The first time we do that, the display device will be available.D >If we create a second display to the same server (!!!), the displayD >device is offline after exit of creation process. Is it possible toF >change this behavior? Can we use an existend WSA device? If yes, how?M >How can I find out, with WSA device is connected to which node:server.screen-6 >and how many windows (processes) use this WSA device?  H WSA devices tend to go away when there are no processes using them.  TheF first Decterm you create on a display causes a "Decterm manager" to beC created.  Subsequent Decterms and EVE windows use the same manager.:  J So your second set of decterms is created using the second WSA but ends upJ going to the original manager which is using the first WSA.  The DCL shellJ inside the Decterm has its display pointing to the second one.  If you use it right away, it will work.    $ But it's better to use the original.       $ SET DISPLAY [oldwsa]  B will do what you need.  Or define the logical name DECW$DISPLAY.    H An undocumented (AFAIK) feature is instead of "SET DISP/CREATE" use only  .     $ DEFINE DECW$DISPLAY "node:server.screen"  K which bypasses the whole WSA debacle completely.  The only "disadvantage" Ia8 see there is you have to stick with the TCPIP transport.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:40:14 +0000 (UTC)05 From: lewis@lumina.no-spam.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)n& Subject: Re: Question for Backup Gurus. Message-ID: <a5153u$jn2$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   Linda Luik <p14175@email.sps.mot.com> writes in article <3C72A8CF.B91D0DCF@email.sps.mot.com> dated Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:34:39 -0700:K >I had a TL891 on a 3 node cluster (Alpha O/S v6.2-1H3) get hanged when thecH >backup batch job went into a RWAST state. The backup was a simple imageF >backup.  At the same time a disk started acting erratically, which isD >totally unrelated. The following is the problem resolution. Is thisK >possible? I didn't know that the backup utility deleted files. How can you  >determine this condition? >id >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------* >The node was rebooted to clear the RWAST. >aE >"Problem resolved on Feb. 12th. Tape drive accessible, RWAST processhG >cleared, BACKUP1 diskspace retrieved (a deleted file was being held by  >the RWAST process.)e >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I > H >FYI. The TL891 worked one night and then got hanged again by the backupE >batch job going into a RWAST state. This time, my login process alsoa8 >went into a RWAST state, but eventually cleared itself.  J The backup utility does not delete files unless you specify /DELETE on theE command line.  The way I interpret the description is that the backup J utility got confused because someone/something else deleted the file while0 it was reading it (or changing the backup date).  * You may have a failing disk on your hands.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgl> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 12:31:46 -0800* From: vmendham@altavista.com (Vic Mendham) Subject: Question on IP file.-< Message-ID: <8b51ed8.0202201231.42203df4@posting.google.com>  E I've seen a similar thing on UCX ( pre tcpip5.1 right?? ). Some mightiE be locked to the function in question in this case anonymous ftp. you F might need to shut down either IP or the FTP functions. The get rid of	 the file.cE In UCX the menu allows you to stop/start and add/remove services likemF ftp/telnet etc. SO perhaps you can disable the function or shut it allB down, rename it incase of a problem then start it all up again andB test to see if a new one gets created. I would think ftp_anon*.logB might only start after the service has been either been started orE accessed by a user/client. Other FP files etc, I usually just get rid D of them each week after the image is completed successfully. We alsoC reset the operator.log/audit etc nightly so the file gets backed up$A and then either archived weekly or monthly depending on system ors client requirements.  d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIEPCECAA.tom@kednos.com>...= > I have a related question, under tcpip5.1 i have a log file @ > tcpip$ftp_anonymous.log;1  which just keeps growing.  Does one& > periodically just delete it or what?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:21:08 GMTy2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)> Subject: Re: Security for VMS systems visable to the  Internet- Message-ID: <8YXc8.4$fL6.24@news.cpqcorp.net>l  W In article <3C6C400C.9090808@tsoft-inc.com>, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:-F :I don't think I really need to lock the system down in ways that are G :available to VMS.  If I thought that, I wouldn't have allowed outside  H :access in the first place.  Any suggestions on things that I should be 
 :considering?g     A firewall?   J   Apply and maintain current OpenVMS and TCP/IP Services ECOs, and follow H   the recommended lock-down procedures -- NCSC Class C2 security -- thatL   are listed in an appendix of the security manual.  Get to TCP/IP Services H   V5.1 if you need programmable SMTP relay, but definitely shut off any H   open SMTP relay that might be present or configured on your host.  If G   there are (legitimate) remote accessors, consider one-time passwords. 7   Set up and check security audits and security alarms.c    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:51:05 -0500I* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>E Subject: RE: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experio- Message-ID: <0033000053764209000002L092*@MHS>g  7 =0AI'm surprised that none of y'all have brought up theu6 Southern US colloquialism of "y'all"...and how it gets3 misused from "folks that ain't from around here..."r   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET * Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:07 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETE Subject: RE: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experis    D >Maybe i shouldn't have slept through all those english classes, butC >I read the above as "everyone" being plural, not singular and THEYnA >as agreeing with it.  Surely 'every" implies more than just one.   D "Everyone" is a singular pronoun.  "Everyone is..." and "All are..." --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com0A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com.= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent.< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"9        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company=>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:03:53 -0500h; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>eU Subject: Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( $ Message-ID: <3c73f320$1@news.si.com>  D >Maybe i shouldn't have slept through all those english classes, butC >I read the above as "everyone" being plural, not singular and THEY A >as agreeing with it.  Surely 'every" implies more than just one.v  E "Everyone" is a singular pronoun.  "Everyone is..." and "All are..." > --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comEA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comE= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventm< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:15:51 -0500.; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> @ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?$ Message-ID: <3c73f5ed$1@news.si.com>  . >Show bug works on vax, but not show crash....  . Wrong.  Here's what I get on OpenVMS VAX V7.2:   SDA> tcpip sho crash %TCPIP-I-THINKING, Thinking ...f %TCPIP-I-THINKING, Thinking ...  %TCPIP-I-THINKING, Thinking ...d% %TCPIP-S-EUREKA, Solution: User errorf --  A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comtA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comn= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 03:23:24 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?- Message-ID: <871yfgvtxv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>h  3 Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:f  > > I seem to remember from the early days when DECNET was beingD > developed there was a status message for an "impossible" conditionF > (as the story goes) that Ken Olsen got when demonstrating DECNET for5 > the press or some other dignitaries.  The message??f  ! IE.NFW -69 Path Lost to Partner. r  E PIP was originally called ATLATL, AnyThing Lord, to AnyThing Lord. KOe got that changed...e   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:40:13 -05002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?, Message-ID: <3C7409A0.FD7E4CD8@videotron.ca>   Brian Tillman wrote:0 > Wrong.  Here's what I get on OpenVMS VAX V7.2: >  > SDA> tcpip sho crash! > %TCPIP-I-THINKING, Thinking ...i! > %TCPIP-I-THINKING, Thinking ... ! > %TCPIP-I-THINKING, Thinking ...a' > %TCPIP-S-EUREKA, Solution: User error   - Most interesting. TCPIP SHOW BUG works fine. m  F But TCPIP SHOW CRASH yields "unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling /CRASH/  K (interestingly, if this is the first command I issue, it first goes through R the hoops of reading the various symbol tables before issueing the error message).  K My only conclusions is that  the VMS engineers don't like me and added code 	 such as : 3 	"if JF THEN don't execute the show crash". :-) :-)C    2 In all fairness, I do get 2 error messages before:5 TCPIP-E-NOWIP-Pathworks over IP driver is not presenti; TCPIP-E-NOTERMINAL-Terminal port (TN) driver is not presentp  B (note: telnet works fine, but not used at time command is issued).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:43:30 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>E@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?, Message-ID: <3C740A64.502C4EBA@videotron.ca>   Paul Repacholi wrote:a" > IE.NFW -69 Path Lost to Partner.  L Early on, I kept getting the "network partner exited" and would always thinkA it was very funny because, english as my second language, I wouldh% instinctively pronounce it "excited".e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:19:15 +0100s2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?; Message-ID: <3c73e8a3.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  # labadie (labadie_g@decus.fr) wrote:i > > Martin Vorlaender wrote: > > >ROTFLASTC > > >p8 > > >I *love* the humor the engineers have put into VMS. >iM >  another one, in the sources, I hope it is not too shocking for comp.os.vms  ...M   :-))  # I found the following in PPLDEF.H :    #define PPL$_NORMAL 31555585I /*++                                                                   */iI /*  FACILITY:     PPL, RUN-TIME LIBRARY                                */dI /*  EXPLANATION:  ALL IS WELL.                                         */,I /*  USER ACTION:  ENJOY YOUR SUCCESS.  ALL THINGS MUST PASS.           */hI /*--                                                                   */v   cu,    Martin --  D                         | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1  VMS is today what      | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de,E  Microsoft wants        |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/i8  Windows NT 8.0 to be!  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:23:51 +0100g2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?; Message-ID: <3c73e9b7.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>-  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote:6 > >I *love* the humor the engineers have put into VMS. >oG > BTW, you now learn American English as opposed to English English :-)<   :-)5  F I hope that I also have humour, being a big fan of Monty Python, TerryF Pratchett, and Douglas Adams. But then, I enjoy "Friends" and "Sex and The City" as well...   cu,    Martin -- OF   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deaF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:53:42 GMTn2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?- Message-ID: <GqYc8.6$fL6.31@news.cpqcorp.net>e  X In article <02022000533901.04934@bwian>, David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes:
 :Hi Folks, : B :Whilst looking through STARLET.REQ the other day, I came across aB :reference to SS$_FISH.  I determined the value (decimal 2928) and' :did "$ exit 2928" to see the followingt :.. :%SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels :h$ :This only appears to be Alpha V7.3.  6   Yes, that particular condition value is new in V7.3.  , :Any one have any idea what it is all about?     Ayup.F  B :(Good to see that someone at Compaq still has a sense of humour.)  D   I'm not in a position to, um, pre-emptively admit the existence of)   any (other) easter eggs within OpenVMS.t    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:56:34 +0100n, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?& Message-ID: <3C747E01.551E03B6@gmx.fr>   Phillip Helbig wrote:f > G > > SS$_ is the symbolic rendition of the System facility code that VMSAB > > displays as %SYSTEM-.  It has nothing to do with Secure Shell. > 8 > %USER-E-TYPETOFAST, user typed message before thinking >  > :-(a > E > Seeing SS in connection with FISH (which is a freeware secure-shellc0 > client for VMS) made me think of secure shell.  H which *was*. This tools has been discontinued and is being replaced with   http://www.free.lp.se/bamse/   which will do SSH v2.0     D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:03:23 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>A. Subject: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger0 Message-ID: <vaUc8.2729$EYv.1146@news1.bloor.is>  L http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=70&u=/cn/20020220/tc_cn/surv! ey__most_hp_workers_oppose_mergera    % Survey: Most HP workers oppose mergera Wed Feb 20, 3:25 PM ET Ian Fried CNET News.coma  D A survey commissioned by David W. Packard finds that Hewlett-PackardD employees in the Corvallis, Ore., area oppose the Compaq merger by a two-to-one margin.  D The survey of 445 current employees, conducted by the Field ResearchL Corporation found 38 percent of workers strongly oppose the deal, 25 percentI of workers somewhat oppose the deal, 20 percent of workers somewhat favoreJ the deal and 11 percent of workers strongly favor the deal. Some 6 percent6 of workers had either no opinion or declined to state.  K The poll comes as the lasted salvo in the battle by Packard and fellow heireH Walter Hewlett to block the blockbuster deal. Hewlett and Packard familyK members and foundations representing 18 percent of HP shares have announcedmF their opposition to the deal, which requires approval of a majority of3 shares cast in a vote election slated for March 19.s  J HP has previously said internal polling shows the majority workers supportL the deal. However, HP's survey contained only four possible responses: "veryJ supportive," "somewhat supportive," "not supportive at all" and "unknown."L Those who answered "somewhat supportive" were counted among those in support> of the deal. There was also no "somewhat unsupportive" option.  K *****Also, although HP's polling was conducted independently, the company'smH surveys were not random and often conducted after hearing a presentationD from company management. *****  (sounds pretty Stalinist to me.....)  J In the poll commissioned by Packard, among those who said they opposed theI deal, a number of reasons were given according to the polling agency. Thee? most common reasons were worries about the value of Compaq, itstF profitability and the commoditization of the PC business, listed by 31J percent of those opposed. Lack of confidence in HP management or directorsH was cited by 23 percent of respondents, while 19 percent said they wouldI like to see HP go in another direction or said the merger was bad for HP.   H Fear of layoffs, the riskiness of the deal and concern the merger is notI part of the storied "HP Way" were also commonly cited reasons among those  opposed to the deal.  J Among those in favor of the deal, the most common reason was that it wouldG make HP stronger or more competitive, with 34 percent of those in favor-L listing that reason. The idea that the deal moves HP forward was cited by 17L percent of those in favor of the deal, while 15 percent cited their trust in management or the HP board.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:08:05 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>-2 Subject: Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger2 Message-ID: <3C745685.41FCF786@firstdbasource.com>  ? Unfortunately, what the employees think is irrelevant.  Ask the ? Employees of DEC whether or not they wanted to be sold to othera# companies and ultimately to Compaq.v   -- y Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163o7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comr" Sr. Consultant  (Ex-DEC 1984-1994)   John Smith wrote:s > N > http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=70&u=/cn/20020220/tc_cn/surv# > ey__most_hp_workers_oppose_mergere > ' > Survey: Most HP workers oppose mergeri > Wed Feb 20, 3:25 PM ET > Ian Fried CNET News.comy > F > A survey commissioned by David W. Packard finds that Hewlett-PackardF > employees in the Corvallis, Ore., area oppose the Compaq merger by a > two-to-one margin. > F > The survey of 445 current employees, conducted by the Field ResearchN > Corporation found 38 percent of workers strongly oppose the deal, 25 percentK > of workers somewhat oppose the deal, 20 percent of workers somewhat favor L > the deal and 11 percent of workers strongly favor the deal. Some 6 percent8 > of workers had either no opinion or declined to state. > M > The poll comes as the lasted salvo in the battle by Packard and fellow heirlJ > Walter Hewlett to block the blockbuster deal. Hewlett and Packard familyM > members and foundations representing 18 percent of HP shares have announcedaH > their opposition to the deal, which requires approval of a majority of5 > shares cast in a vote election slated for March 19.  > L > HP has previously said internal polling shows the majority workers supportN > the deal. However, HP's survey contained only four possible responses: "veryL > supportive," "somewhat supportive," "not supportive at all" and "unknown."N > Those who answered "somewhat supportive" were counted among those in support@ > of the deal. There was also no "somewhat unsupportive" option. > M > *****Also, although HP's polling was conducted independently, the company'syJ > surveys were not random and often conducted after hearing a presentationF > from company management. *****  (sounds pretty Stalinist to me.....) > L > In the poll commissioned by Packard, among those who said they opposed theK > deal, a number of reasons were given according to the polling agency. ThemA > most common reasons were worries about the value of Compaq, itsaH > profitability and the commoditization of the PC business, listed by 31L > percent of those opposed. Lack of confidence in HP management or directorsJ > was cited by 23 percent of respondents, while 19 percent said they wouldK > like to see HP go in another direction or said the merger was bad for HP.l > J > Fear of layoffs, the riskiness of the deal and concern the merger is notK > part of the storied "HP Way" were also commonly cited reasons among those  > opposed to the deal. > L > Among those in favor of the deal, the most common reason was that it wouldI > make HP stronger or more competitive, with 34 percent of those in favorcN > listing that reason. The idea that the deal moves HP forward was cited by 17N > percent of those in favor of the deal, while 15 percent cited their trust in > management or the HP board.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:33:34 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l2 Subject: Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger0 Message-ID: <20Zc8.4372$EYv.3024@news1.bloor.is>  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3C745685.41FCF786@firstdbasource.com...A > Unfortunately, what the employees think is irrelevant.  Ask therA > Employees of DEC whether or not they wanted to be sold to otherM% > companies and ultimately to Compaq.' >   I It is germane if those HP employees own HP stock and vote it the way they  think.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:31:39 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>2 Subject: Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger9 Message-ID: <f_Yc8.6716$ro5.2644255@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>C  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3C745685.41FCF786@firstdbasource.com...8 > Unfortunately, what the employees think is irrelevant.  = Unless, of course, they have shares of stock they can vote...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:44:42 -0500"1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>a2 Subject: Re: Survey: Most HP workers oppose merger2 Message-ID: <3C745F1A.9E2B13D1@firstdbasource.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:s > @ > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message. > news:3C745685.41FCF786@firstdbasource.com...: > > Unfortunately, what the employees think is irrelevant. > ? > Unless, of course, they have shares of stock they can vote...2  ? Then the question is: "What percentage of stock is owned by thet> employees who are willing to vote,  and is it enough to make a difference?"     -- p Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163i7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comb Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------   Date: 20 FEB 2002 17:35:28 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)/ Subject: Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?e6 Message-ID: <20FEB02.17352899@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  L In a previous article, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote:   ->	The question two: sK ->        how get at all an ability to call $GETAUI under unprivs account ?   J READALL should be enough. This is what I have the GETUAI utility installed with.e   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:01:03 +0300c4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru>/ Subject: Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?a0 Message-ID: <3C74007F.81E1957F@smtp.deltatel.ru>   danco@pebble.org wrote:a > K > In article <3C73BF29.61B98105@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, Ruslan R. Laishev wrote:T > K > > against VMS SYSUAF. I wrote a little shared module wich export an entrya* > > supposed to be called from user progs.. > >       This module is installed with SYSPRV > G > You don't install shareable images with privileges.  You install mainiD > images with privileges.  Oh sure, INSTALL will let you specify theG > privilege qualifiers when you install a shareable image, but they are- > meaningless.	 	I see :(   ; > When people speak of a "privileged shareable image", theypA > mean one that is installed protected and implements user systempE > services in Kernel or Executive mode.  (Or a subsystem these days.)eA > At the risk of having your process deleted if your code makes abF > mistake, you can write your routine as an Executive mode user systemH > service.  Executive mode has some privileges implicitly.  You can alsoE > turn on and off whatever other privileges you need while running innF > Executive mode (see the SYS$SETPRV system service for that).  You'llD > find both VAX and Alpha examples of User System Service disptchersC > and code in the directory pointed to by the SYS$EXAMPLES logical.  	Hmmm... Why I forgot this...-  . 	Cool advice, great thanks! I'll try this way.   >  > - Dan    --   Cheers, Ruslan.sD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.coml8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RUn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:58:09 +0300r4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru>/ Subject: Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?P0 Message-ID: <3C73FFD1.311F248C@smtp.deltatel.ru>  ] > >       The question two: how get at all an ability to call $GETAUI under unprivs account ?o > M > Write an application that call $GETUAI and install the application with theg > required privileges.C 	In my case application is BEA Weblogic server wich cannot performscC authentication against SYSUAF :( (!!!), and it's only one reason too0 trying implement a privileged _shareable_ image.   -- y Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.coma8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RUn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:19:19 GMT-' From: Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> ! Subject: UAF settings for Backup?M) Message-ID: <3C7420E7.408794A5@UIowa.EDU>c  L In the OpenVMS System Manager's Manual for suggested settings for an accountJ running Backup, it suggests that the UAF quotas be assigned like WSQUOTA = WSEXTENTN which both should be set to the value of the SYSGEN WSMAX parameter value.  In my case, I get:n  " $ MCR SYSMAN Parameters Show WSMAXP Parameter Name            Current    Default    Minimum    Maximum Unit  DynamicP --------------            -------    -------    -------    ------- ----  -------P WSMAX                     1091584       4096       1024    8388608 Pagelets       * HOWEVER, if I look from SYSGEN I get this:   $ MCR SYSGEN SYSGEN>  USE ACTIVEg SYSGEN>  SHOW WSMAX P Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  DynamicP --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  -------M WSMAX                     1091584       4096      1024    8388608 Pagelets    M  internal value             68224        256        64     524288 Pages         P What is the "internal value" and should I use 1,091,584 or 68,224 for the Backup) account's UAF quotas of WSQUOTA=WSEXTENT?L   Thanks for the help! Rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:23:22 GMTG2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: vax h/w type.. Message-ID: <uSYc8.8$fL6.126@news.cpqcorp.net>  u In article <bc0e3bd8.0202201020.4a17718d@posting.google.com>, pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders) writes: A :  Is there any way to find out the type of Vax I am using in VMSv :5.5-2.o  H   It's been a gazillion years since I've (knowingly :-) used an OpenVMS G   release this ancient, but I'd first try to use the following command:a       SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE)  B   Others have pointed you at various arguments for the DCL lexical?   function f$getsyi, and these will also work quite admirably. d    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 05:21:30 GMTO- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>  Subject: Re: vax h/w type.* Message-ID: <3C74865F.7060304@qsl.network>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > $MAIL SYSTEM$ > SUBJECT: What kind of VAX is this? >  > Hi,oB > Can you read the back panel and tell me the model number of this > computer?e >  > ^Z >   A When I have tried that, the responses are usually on the line of:)   VT340: LA120r Letterwriter 100 VT420c VT320p     -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:59:49 GMTd' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> A Subject: Re: VAX/VMS mail sending and receiving to other machines + Message-ID: <3C74478D.1D9A9EB1@pacbell.net>u   Georgi Kozinakov wrote:" > 6 > I'd like to know how it is possible to use PC with a7 > mail client (and/or server) to connect with vms mail.A0 > I have VMS 7.2.1 on microVAX 3100/30 with 32MB6 > memory, TCP/IP services ver.5.1 and a PC on the same6 > private network (172.16.x.x) with Win2000 server and3 > a couple of mail clients (Outlook, Pegasus Mail).a3 > I am trying also to instal a Mercury mail server.f3 > How can I send a mail from vms mail to pc (and if-  F Assuming you have SMTP enabled properly (/option=TOP_HEADERS, etc) and6 your VMS gateway points to your PC (or ISP), just use " $ mail file "SMTP%user@domain.net"  G To get your VMS mail from your PC, you'll need POP services on and SMTPf
 /opt=RELAY  ; > possible to relay it to the internet - the pc has dial-up-: > connection to the ISP) and also to send mail from the pc; > to the vms mail ? (and / or  also from internet elsewherej > to the vms mail).u  F If your PC could act like a router, you could assign any IP address to' your VMS box and route your mail to it.S   Hope this helps. >  > -- > Georgi Kozinakov > kozinakov@mt.net.mki > gjokok@yahoo.com > Skopje, Macedonia    -- c   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San Franciscoi   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Feb 2002 22:40:51 -0800  From: cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom)' Subject: VIP - VMS Information Providerh= Message-ID: <774640de.0202202240.4b63c79b@posting.google.com>e   Dear OpenVMS user,  A Since 1991 I am working as an OpenVMS consultant for clients that-? temporary need OpenVMS expertise, e.g. to design, implement andh< maintain applications or to perform system management tasks.  D Besides this, I am also developing my own OpenVMS software products,> which I am trying to sale using the Internet. You can find the= software product VIP (VMS Information Provider) on my website : http://www.momss.nl/vip which gives an overview of the VIPE functionality and all kind of examples. VIP can be downloaded en usedwE free for 30 days with the included evaluation license. If you like tomA continue using VIP after that period, you will have to purchase ae license.  C VIP is a cluster-wide monitor and display utility for OpenVMS Alphag? and OpenVMS VAX for processes, quota, working sets, i/o, disks,aB pagefaults, eventflags, cpu, logins, open files, locks and clusterE members. You can define alarm conditions or levels which may generate B a message on a terminal screen, on the operator console or send anC e-mail (VMS mail or Internet mail using SMTP) when a condition or a F level has been reached. You also can perform actions on processes like3 DELETE PROCESS, SUSPEND PROCESS, RESUME PROCESS andmB INCREMENT/DECREMENT/SET PRIORITY. Possible VIP comands are MONITORA SYSTEM, MONITOR QUOTA, MONITOR WORKING_SET, MONITOR DISK, MONITORsE LOGIN, MONITOR PROCESS (CPU, QUOTA, EVENT_FLAG, I/O, PAGEFAULT), SHOWhF SYSTEM, SHOW LOCK, SHOW CLUSTER and SHOW OPEN_FILES. All commands haveA a wide range of qualifiers to select the required information for @ monitoring or display. VIP will continuously be updated with new functionality.  < You may ask any question. You will always receive an answer.   With kind regards,   Cor Moms Mom Software Servicesi   E-mail:	  cor.mom@momss.nl Internet: http://www.momss.nle Fax:      +31 481 377098   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:57:54 -0500 ! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>d Subject: VS4000-90 and HP88780B + Message-ID: <a51ac1$t3d$1@bob.news.rcn.net>e  H I have a VS4000-90 and an HP-88780 drive.  I am trying to dub three NineK track VAX tape to a PC format.  I connected the drive and set it up on SCSIfJ 3.  It shows up as MKA300: at the console and under VMS.  If seems to haveK the correct information but is report as a type 7980 Tape drive.  Under VMS H I can mount the tape can the prompt returns to me.  When I Backup/verifyG MKA300:FILENAME.bak DKA600:[DIRECTORY] it then asks for the drive to belK MOUNT/FOREIGN.  I knwo the tape was written under with UVII / VMS 5.4. so IlI wouldn't think that the /FOREIGN would apply.  When I add the /FOREIGN asoI asked it never returns a to a prompt, (error, $, >>>, anything).  It justo hangs.  Any ideas.   DFN, (Dumb F**kin Newbie) Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:36:03 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> # Subject: Re: VS4000-90 and HP88780Be, Message-ID: <3C7432D8.63612D3F@videotron.ca>  	 me wrote:aJ > I can mount the tape can the prompt returns to me.  When I Backup/verifyI > MKA300:FILENAME.bak DKA600:[DIRECTORY] it then asks for the drive to beD > MOUNT/FOREIGN. 6  M That is what backup wants. Or simply not issue the MOUNT and let it BACKUP dos the mounting the way it wants.  L Another option is to mount the tape non-foreign and attempt to copy specificM file name (namely: the save set to disk and then use backup on the disk file.i  K Alternatively, mount the tape foreign, then copy files sequentially to disk N until end of file and the find the relevant file and use backup on it (you may# have to use set file/attrib on it).    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.101 ************************