1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 22 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 103       Contents:1 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bps 5 Re: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bps 5 Re: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bps 5 Re: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bps % ADAVFY detects errors but Hardware OK ) Compaq/HP - skating with different Blades  Corruption, et al  Re: Creating a mailbox...  Re: Creating a mailbox...  Re: Date on Drives+ DECWindows and the MIT-SHM server extension F Re: determining objective reality (i.e. Bill Gates bribes DEC/Compaq?) Re: Einstein Re: einstein Re: Einstein Re: einstein Re: einstein Re: Einstein0 Re: EV7 rules ... more proof of EV8 conspirarcy!0 Re: EV7 rules ... more proof of EV8 conspirarcy!> Re: EV8 ... the true story!  Capellas/Q sell out shareholders!> Re: EV8 ... the true story!  Capellas/Q sell out shareholders!, Re: EV8 and McKinley analysis by Paul DeMone, Re: EV8 and McKinley analysis by Paul DeMone0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?0 Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?J Re: FreeVMS: what are CPQ's feelings likely to be ?, was: Re: MPE/iX users= Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...) = Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...) 7 Help, need Latest/Correct ECU version - having problems ; Re: Help, need Latest/Correct ECU version - having problems * Re: How to get rid of too many logfiles... Re: HP 88780B and VS4000-90  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles0 Re: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows"0 Re: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows"= Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare  Re: print on OCE copier ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS ) Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS  Screen Saver Problem (?) Re: Screen Saver Problem (?) Shannon on the merger L Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans (L Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans (P Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? 7 Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it? P Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  & Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?& Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?& Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?$ Trying to boot a VAX 6300 (6000-300)( Re: Trying to boot a VAX 6300 (6000-300). Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.. Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems. Re: UAF settings for Backup?$ Re: Using Edit inside a procedure...$ Re: Using Edit inside a procedure...- Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS? ! Workstation screen saver question  World Class Sportfishing!  Re: World Class Sportfishing!  Re: World Class Sportfishing!  Re: World Class Sportfishing!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:55:19 -0800 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com> : Subject: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bpsB Message-ID: <210220021255190269%spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com>  L I've got a 500au (running VMS 7.2-1). I've also got two network hubs. One isI a 10baseT and the other is a 10/100 autosensing hub. The 500au works fine H when attached to the 10baseT hub. When I connect it to the 10/100 hub itF runs only at 10mbs and has lots of problems with traffic. I've got the> ewa0_mode set to Auto-Negotiate but it doesn't seem to matter.  J I've tried switching ports and cables but it makes no difference. I've gotH another 500au that's similarly configured and it works at 100bps without	 problems.   K Do I have a bad part someplace? I've compared the ewa0 settings between the I two machines and there appears to be no difference between them. Is there J are hardware jumper or something that I can check? I'd like to get maximum+ performance out of this thing if I could...   " Thanks for any help and/or advice,       -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   ------------------------------   Date: 21 FEB 2002 22:58:45 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> > Subject: Re: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bps2 Message-ID: <21FEB02.22584504@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>  O In a previous article, David Spencer <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com> wrote: N > I've got a 500au (running VMS 7.2-1). I've also got two network hubs. One isK > a 10baseT and the other is a 10/100 autosensing hub. The 500au works fine J > when attached to the 10baseT hub. When I connect it to the 10/100 hub itH > runs only at 10mbs and has lots of problems with traffic. I've got the@ > ewa0_mode set to Auto-Negotiate but it doesn't seem to matter. >   L > I've tried switching ports and cables but it makes no difference. I've gotJ > another 500au that's similarly configured and it works at 100bps without > problems.  >   M > Do I have a bad part someplace? I've compared the ewa0 settings between the K > two machines and there appears to be no difference between them. Is there L > are hardware jumper or something that I can check? I'd like to get maximum- > performance out of this thing if I could...   : In a nutshell - forget auto-negotiate and set it to 100mb.  G I have a 500au running on 100bps.  I had a heckuva time getting my DS10 G to do it though.  Turns out both the ethernet card and VMS do their own G negotiation.  But there are no real standards for negotiation.  Nor are E there standards for what to do if you can't agree on a speed.  In the I case of my DS10, the card defaults to 100mb if it fails, but VMS defaults F to 10mb if *it* fails.  What I was seeing was the card selecting 100mbI (either through default or successful negotiation) but then VMS defaulted 
 back to 10mb.    Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:32:44 GMT  From: lbohan@spamless..dbc.com> Subject: Re: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bps8 Message-ID: <p47b7usv4vgf6je8mifkeq5fajdfitfb73@4ax.com>  1 On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:55:19 -0800, David Spencer * <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com> wrote:  M >I've got a 500au (running VMS 7.2-1). I've also got two network hubs. One is J >a 10baseT and the other is a 10/100 autosensing hub. The 500au works fineI >when attached to the 10baseT hub. When I connect it to the 10/100 hub it G >runs only at 10mbs and has lots of problems with traffic. I've got the ? >ewa0_mode set to Auto-Negotiate but it doesn't seem to matter.  > K >I've tried switching ports and cables but it makes no difference. I've got I >another 500au that's similarly configured and it works at 100bps without 
 >problems. > L >Do I have a bad part someplace? I've compared the ewa0 settings between theJ >two machines and there appears to be no difference between them. Is thereK >are hardware jumper or something that I can check? I'd like to get maximum , >performance out of this thing if I could... > # >Thanks for any help and/or advice,  >  >  >  >-- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   9 What does  CLUE CONFIG show you  (what kind of NIC card?)  (from inside SDA, $an/sys)  F FFFFFFFF.8105F140 18 FFFFFFFF.8820E000  0 EWA:  3 DE500-BA 100 mbit NI  8 the other posters' advice inre auto-sense is well taken, avoid it, (if you can)  = I did run into a situation where I couldn't avoid auto-sense, 1 (attached to a cheap hub not under my control).     / the only soln that worked for me, in that case  ! was a DE600,  v7.3 and LAN eco's.   / if you have the DE600. you probably don't need  , v7.3 and the LAN eco's necessarily, but I'd - wager you'd have better luck (vis auto-sense)   $ you can probably find them cheaper, 0 but this place, had fast turn-around (1-2 days.)  P http://www.cc-inc.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?action=techspec&dpno=805059#scroll  ) NC3123 Fast Ethernet NIC PCI 10/100 WOL	   Platform	Universal	  Part No.	805059	   Manufacturer	Compaq	   Mfr. Part No.	174830-B21	    Your Price:	  $100.00	     DE600-AA NIC@ The DE600-AA NIC is also known as the NC3123 and is based on theF i82559 Ethernet controller. This is a single port NIC using a standardA RJ45 connector. This NIC supports 10/100BaseTX, Full Duplex, Half  Duplex, and Auto Negotiation.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:14:12 -0800 7 From: David Spencer <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com> > Subject: Re: 500au ethernet apparently won't operate at 100bpsB Message-ID: <210220021814128342%spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com>  Z In article <p47b7usv4vgf6je8mifkeq5fajdfitfb73@4ax.com>, <lbohan@spamless..dbc.com> wrote:  3 > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:55:19 -0800, David Spencer , > <spencer@pageweavers.spaamfree.com> wrote: > O > >I've got a 500au (running VMS 7.2-1). I've also got two network hubs. One is L > >a 10baseT and the other is a 10/100 autosensing hub. The 500au works fineK > >when attached to the 10baseT hub. When I connect it to the 10/100 hub it I > >runs only at 10mbs and has lots of problems with traffic. I've got the A > >ewa0_mode set to Auto-Negotiate but it doesn't seem to matter.  > > M > >I've tried switching ports and cables but it makes no difference. I've got K > >another 500au that's similarly configured and it works at 100bps without  > >problems. > > N > >Do I have a bad part someplace? I've compared the ewa0 settings between theL > >two machines and there appears to be no difference between them. Is thereM > >are hardware jumper or something that I can check? I'd like to get maximum . > >performance out of this thing if I could... > > % > >Thanks for any help and/or advice,  > >  > >  > >  > >-- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers  > ; > What does  CLUE CONFIG show you  (what kind of NIC card?)  > (from inside SDA, $an/sys) > H > FFFFFFFF.8105F140 18 FFFFFFFF.8820E000  0 EWA:  3 DE500-BA 100 mbit NI  7 Looks very much the same. Clearly capabile of 100mps...   : > the other posters' advice inre auto-sense is well taken, > avoid it, (if you can)  M It's a great suggestion, really. I thought I was cute when I picked autosense M but obviously should have forced the issue. I'll have a whack at that as soon  as I can get it available.  ? > I did run into a situation where I couldn't avoid auto-sense, 3 > (attached to a cheap hub not under my control).     H This machine has other quirks as well. I'm thinking that I ought to just replace it.   1 > the only soln that worked for me, in that case  # > was a DE600,  v7.3 and LAN eco's.  > 1 > if you have the DE600. you probably don't need  . > v7.3 and the LAN eco's necessarily, but I'd / > wager you'd have better luck (vis auto-sense)  > & > you can probably find them cheaper, 2 > but this place, had fast turn-around (1-2 days.) > R > http://www.cc-inc.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?action=techspec&dpno=805059#scroll > + > NC3123 Fast Ethernet NIC PCI 10/100 WOL    > Platform  Universal      > Part No.  805059     > Manufacturer Compaq       > Mfr. Part No.   174830-B21     > Your Price:    $100.00     >  >  > DE600-AA NICB > The DE600-AA NIC is also known as the NC3123 and is based on theH > i82559 Ethernet controller. This is a single port NIC using a standardC > RJ45 connector. This NIC supports 10/100BaseTX, Full Duplex, Half  > Duplex, and Auto Negotiation.   5 Wonderful information! I really appreciate your help.   \ Just as an aside, I recently found a large lot of DE500s on eBay. I bid on a couple but theyZ got away on a later, higher bid. I'm hoping that more will come up. But if not, I now know# where get a good card just in case.    Many thanks again,     -- Dave Spencer, PageWeavers   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 12:51:51 -0800$ From: josephatt@hotmail.com (Joseph). Subject: ADAVFY detects errors but Hardware OK= Message-ID: <80ac9a89.0202211251.75daf153@posting.google.com>   A We have 3 alpha servers running VMS in a cluster.  We are running > Adabas vers 2.1.  We recently got 3166 errors that indicate an@ inverted list problem and a 3177 errors that indicate an addressE converter problem.  We issolated the problem by running a ADAVFY.  We D reconstructed the associator file and the ADAVFY came out clean.  WeD then tried running a ADAVFY from one server on a disk using one scsiC cable and came out with errors.  We then ran the same ADAVFY on the B same Database on the same scsi cable but via another server in theA cluster and the database came out clean.  The problem is that the E Hardware people came in and did all kinds of IO and diagnostics tests , on that server and the tests came out clean.   Any ideas why?   Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:49:44 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 2 Subject: Compaq/HP - skating with different Blades0 Message-ID: <Yshd8.2940$4xE.2761@news1.bloor.is>  ?  -------------------------------------------------------------- (  This story was printed from Enterprise,,  located at http://www.zdnet.com/enterprise.?  --------------------------------------------------------------    Compaq and HP at odds on blades  By Bill O'Brien, Enterprise  February 1, 2002 4:22 PM PT  URL:  I From a strictly component point of view, Compaq's newly announced line of C blade servers is decidedly ho-hum. The BL10e is built from a 700MHz A ultra-low voltage Pentium III with a 100MHz front side bus, 512MB E (expandable to 1GB) of PC133 ECC SDRAM, and a non-hot pluggable, 30GB K ATA/100 4200rpm hard drive. Aside from a few blade/network particulars--the K low voltage CPU and ECC memory--it could be any desktop PC of 1998 vintage.   G The devil's in the details, however, and Compaq is rightly proud of the H little things it has designed for the enterprise market. Compared to itsB ProLiant DL320 line, the BL10e has a larger base memory, no slots,L integrated Administrator functions, and a form factor that will fit 20 bladeG servers in a 3U enclosure. (In case it's too early in the day for math, + that's 280 BL10e's in a standard 42U rack.)   J Those are certainly some of the prime selling points for blades. But wait,J says Hewlett-Packard, no slots? This is closed architecture. How can it be8 cost effective if it lacks the capability to be diverse?  F Pshaw, replies Compaq. We looked at CompactPCI as an open architectureG source and found it wasn't robust enough for what our customers needed. I Besides, it's not really closed architecture. There are standard Ethernet $ interconnect ports on the backplane.  J Let us all bow our heads in a moment of stunned silence--at the very leastL for the absolute lameness of Compaq's added rebut. More importantly, though,J is this not Compaq and HP, the engaged couple which, now that the EuropeanJ Union has blessed the concept and short of a major coup by the Hewlett andK Packard families, will eventually become a single corporate entity? Is this  prenuptial bickering we see?  I Well, yes, but no. Until the two are actually joined at the budget, these H are still two separate and competing companies. The worrisome part isn'tI that they disagree on the approach to blade servers--that's the nature of H business. What should be in the forefront of your mind is that when (if)L there is a merger, one of these two technologies will become subordinate to,L if not displaced by, the other. Someone will be left holding a bag. That too is the nature of business.  G What do you do if a wait and see approach isn't possible? Eastman Kodaki@ somewhat unwittingly and indirectly, tends to support the CompaqE "closed-loop" type of operation. A day after Compaq announced it's BL J series, Kodak went on record as having achieved a significant reduction inL TCO in a deployment of some 40,000 laptops and desktops by buying direct andG standardizing on specific IBM hardware, software, and support services.!L Admittedly, this is somewhat like Henry Ford's business plan, "Any color youK want as long as it's black," but, as Kodak is claiming, it can be effectiveyC if you can fit your square peg of operations into the round hole of ; opportunity. Compaq, as do others, offers this same type ofo blade-to-Enterprise coverage.?  L Make no mistake, in its totality, HP's approach is equally closed, just on aJ much broader scale. It must approve any hardware or software before it canK be officially accepted for its blades. As I mentioned in an earlier column,rI doing things in this manner "affords HP the luxury of being able to bless L the product and not be caught by surprise by the inevitable support call. AsK well, knowing the players allows HP to use its TopTools management softwaredK effectively." In balance, however, HP's open architecture not only provides K a more flexible environment, one that's can be more open to choices, but iteL suggests that should HP become the subordinate partner, existing third-partyJ support for its architecture could sustain its servers for a significantly longer time.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:04:29 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Corruption, et al9 Message-ID: <hpcd8.7117$ro5.3153299@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>W   A pretty good writeup!  * From: "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com>2 Subject: The fallout from Capellas' Corruption ...) Date: Thursday, February 21, 2002 1:08 PM   4 This is the result of the corruption by Capellas and5 Palmer and others at Compaq/Dec through the years ...u this will be their legacy ...t  I http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT070101205659&PageNum=6r  ) Building A Better Mousetrap is Not EnoughSE If you observe rapidly changing fields of endeavor, like the computer @ and electronics industries, over time you eventually come to theF paradoxical conclusion that superior technology often loses out to its@ inferiors. The 68000 lost out to the 8086. Beta lost out to VHS.E Multics lost out to lesser operating systems. And now Alpha loses out D to IA64. The best explanation why this often happens is that backersE of inferior technology recognize its deficiency and simply try hardert: to sell their product. They strenuously try to make up forE shortcomings through non-technical means that often prove decisive ifl? the gap isn&#8217;t too large. These means include high poweredeE marketing, skillful exploitation of political and regulatory factors,tF and getting to market first to take advantage of the so-called networkB effect. Conversely, superior technologies are often created within@ organizations dominated by an engineering culture. Techies oftenB expect everyone to think like techies and falsely assume customersD will readily appreciate the mathematical beauty or abstract elegance@ of a superior technology, and will buy it for its own sake. As aB result they seriously undervalue the need to actively market theirE superior technology. A good example of this principle is the Motorolar9 68000&#8217;s failure to dominate the 8086 in the face oft= Intel&#8217;s "operation crush" in the late 1970&#8217;s [6].o  E The question of Alpha&#8217;s marketing viability is a sore point for C many Alpha users and observers of the technical scene. Although the-D marketing ineptitude of the late great Digital Equipment CorporationC is still legendary among veteran computer users, the passing of therC Alpha to Compaq was supposed to change all that. Compaq became very6= successful by selling other people&#8217;s technology. But ifn@ anything, Alpha marketing got worse, possibly because of rivalryF between the newcomer and existing x86 product divisions which may haveF felt threatened or jealous. Many technical and academic computer usersF report eerily similar anecdotes of expending great effort to obtain anF Alpha evaluation unit or even purchase multiple systems from Compaq orD its distributors only to give up in exasperation. I had one of thoseE experiences myself several years ago. This contrasts sharply with thebA generally swift reaction that the slightest hint of interest willt? invoke from a well-oiled selling machine like Sun Microsystems.r  F Alpha&#8217;s economic viability simply comes down to market share andC margin. The total market for high-end 64-bit MPUs is perhaps on theuB order of a million parts per year, and these drive system sales of@ over $40 billion per year. At best, Alpha had a 10 to 15% marketE share. So it would be at a serious disadvantage in economies of scaleRA when MIPS, PA-RISC, and even Xeon to some extent, are replaced by2< IA64, and commoditization of 64-bit hardware reduces marginsD throughout the industry. There is little doubt that Alpha, generallyE and widely regarded as the best architecture and processor technology D in existence, could have achieved much higher sales and market shareD over its lifetime if competently marketed and supported by a stable,E forward looking corporation. Compaq was likely quite truthful when it F asserted that it couldn&#8217;t keep Alpha going as a viable business.D Samsung and API Networks can&#8217;t escape their share of the blameD either, as they seemed far more interested in price gouging existingB customers than adding value or expanding the overall market. It isD rumored that at various times in its short life Alpha technology was; offered to Intel, Apple, and Sun, and was rejected due to ahB combination of valid business concerns and not invented here (NIH)E syndrome. It is interesting to hypothesis what might have happened ifn$ events had taken a different course.   Summary and ConclusionF It is sad to see a superior technology fall victim to the shortcomingsF of its owner rather than any fault of its own. This is made worse when? the inferior technology that succeeds it does so because of therC business acumen and economic clout of its owner rather than through F merit. This is now happening for 64-bit computing like it did 15 yearsF ago in the 32-bit world. The interests of high end computer buyers andA users everywhere are hurt in some small measure by Compaq&#8217;se@ announcement, even those who have never even seen an Alpha basedB system, let alone bought and used one, because of the accompanying7 reduction of choice and competition in the marketplace.   = Intel&#8217;s Borg-like assimilation of Alpha technology is a4A significant development in the high-end 64-bit microprocessor and @ system world, even though the full effect won&#8217;t be felt byD competitors for years to come. Perhaps resistance is futile over theD long run, but no one should expect either IBM or Sun Microsystems toF submit without a long and bruising fight. Short of a revolutionary newC development in computing, IA64 may be the last clean sheet of papereC ISA created for non-embedded applications for an indefinite period.hF The example set by the x86 suggests the 64-bit world will have to live) with some mistakes for a long, long time.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:31:57 GMTs! From: Ian Parker <parker@gol.com>o" Subject: Re: Creating a mailbox...& Message-ID: <oo+zTEAUxYd8EwGy@gol.com>  ? In article <200202152343.VAA27413@orwell.uol.com.br>, valdemir-t @uol.com.br writes4 >Im having problems to create a mailbox in Pascal. < >I need create a mailbox in Pascal to get all Opcom messages' >send to operators console. My doubts:i> >- How create a mailbox in Pascal and enable this mailbox withH >  Operator privilege to catch all messages send to Operators console ?+ >- How read data buffered in this mailbox ? 7 >- How clean up old messages buffered in this mailbox ?0F >Sorry for the insistence, but in my new job I have to read "zillions"I > of messages sent to my terminal. I "need" create a program to catch all D > messages and search for string "Error - Batch job JOB_NAME finish @ > abnormally !"  - If I dont catch batch error messages in my  ) > terminal Im seriously  advertised !    @ > A complete programs example it will be gracefull apreciate... > Thanks in advance...  E An alternative approach, if the circumstances permit, might be to geteF Console Manager and use it to notify you when the message is displayedG on the console.  You would run console manager on another system with aiH serial connection (we used DECserver terminal servers) to the console ofG the system(s) you wish to monitor - it logs and scans all output on the.H console terminal.  You define text to be searched for and the actions to! be taken when such text is found.1   Regardsa -- n
 Ian Parker   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:01:58 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>" Subject: Re: Creating a mailbox...0 Message-ID: <3C75A57C.C5DA4E18@blueyonder.co.uk>   Ian Parker wrote:0 > A > In article <200202152343.VAA27413@orwell.uol.com.br>, valdemir-: > @uol.com.br writes5 > >Im having problems to create a mailbox in Pascal.1> > >I need create a mailbox in Pascal to get all Opcom messages) > >send to operators console. My doubts:b@ > >- How create a mailbox in Pascal and enable this mailbox withJ > >  Operator privilege to catch all messages send to Operators console ?- > >- How read data buffered in this mailbox ?g9 > >- How clean up old messages buffered in this mailbox ? H > >Sorry for the insistence, but in my new job I have to read "zillions"K > > of messages sent to my terminal. I "need" create a program to catch all E > > messages and search for string "Error - Batch job JOB_NAME finishu@ > > abnormally !"  - If I dont catch batch error messages in my( > > terminal Im seriously  advertised !B > > A complete programs example it will be gracefull apreciate... > > Thanks in advance... > G > An alternative approach, if the circumstances permit, might be to gettH > Console Manager and use it to notify you when the message is displayedI > on the console.  You would run console manager on another system with aIJ > serial connection (we used DECserver terminal servers) to the console ofI > the system(s) you wish to monitor - it logs and scans all output on the J > console terminal.  You define text to be searched for and the actions to# > be taken when such text is found.S >    or roll your own DCL with   R $ search sys$manager:operator.log "Error - Batch job JOB_NAME finish abnormally !"  N at its heart, as long as you don't mind waiting for the logfile to get flushedA to disk. OK, if Valdemir REALLY wants to go the hard way, he can.a    	 > RegardsI > -- > Ian Parker   -- o Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of v! my employers or service provider.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:54:03 -0500d1 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>  Subject: Re: Date on Driveso/ Message-ID: <u7b5ko8vabv2d4@news.supernews.com>t  2 Manufacture on DEC products was always as follows:   XXYZZAAAAAAA   XX=Place of Manufacture. Y=Year of Manufactured ZZ= Week of Manufactureo   e.g.  NI91512345678   , Manufactured in Nashua NH, in 1999 15th week   David To   -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Streeta Savannah GA 31404( Tel: 877 636 4332t International: 001 912 447 6622d  Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.netC www.hpaq.net    ; Ren Schelbaum <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> wrote in message.A news:3c7526e0$0$26380$5039e797@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at...B > G > "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> schrieb im NewsbeitragN; > news:EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC4AF@AMCLVX11...EK > > I use to have a way, and for the life of me cannot remember (showing myt > age) > >s0 > > I have numerous drives.  The drives are old.K > > Is there a way I could find when a drive was put in service or the datee > the  > > drive was built.9 > > The drives are running, I am unable to pull them out.l1 > > All the drives are (don't laugh) RZ28 drives.p > >h > > Edward A. Lucas $ > > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > > SAIC > > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com > >W > >s >  > Hi!- >-L > If you look at the creation date of the system files in directory [000000]L > (eg. BITMAP.SYS), that should indicate the date of the last initialisation > of that drive. >d	 > regardsn >o > Ren >  >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:20:03 -0800r0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>4 Subject: DECWindows and the MIT-SHM server extension, Message-ID: <3C752C43.4BBF57A0@Mvb.Saic.Com>  G Does anyone have any experience with the shared-memory extension in the H X-windows server on VMS who can give me some pointers?  So far, my every> attempt has aborted with the following error when I attach the shared-memory segment:5 BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied)v0   Major opcode of failed request:  131 (MIT-SHM)2   Minor opcode of failed request:  1 (X_ShmAttach)  G (Much) more detail is available if needed but I wanted to see if anyonev has actually used this first..  
 Mark Berryman? Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:58:38 +0100"' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>sO Subject: Re: determining objective reality (i.e. Bill Gates bribes DEC/Compaq?) ( Message-ID: <3C756D8E.18995C45@spam.net>   Phillip Helbig wrote:T > E > There have been a lot of posts here recently bemoaning the death oftG > ALPHA, the merger with HP, the merger with Compaq, DEC selling things J > off etc.  There has also been some speculation that some of the decisionF > makers were directly or indirectly in the pay of Gates, the argument2 > being that these bemoaned actions benefit Gates. > A > It is a serious charge, of course, but doesn't sound completelyeI > impossible, especially considering the bad-business practices Microsoft3  > has already been convicted of. > I > If courts are willing to go to quite a lot of trouble to decide whethersI > or not Microsoft behaved legally in the case of (brace yourself for thevD > triviality of this compared to real computing issues) the "browserJ > wars", it seems to me that they should be willing to look at a much more > severe charge. > H > As far as I know, it doesn't cost anything nor is it a risk, financialG > or otherwise, to the initiator of such an accusation.  So why doesn'tnG > someone who lives within the jurisdiction of the relevant courts and,0F > preferably, has been tangibly affected by these issues, raise such aB > charge?  If there really is something to it, perhaps the courts,G > prosecutors etc will find it out.  If not, then we can concentrate oncJ > more profitable things than pondering whether so and so is in the employ > of Gates.o > H > Several folks have posted collections of or pointers to "evidence", so6 > it should be an easy matter to take it to the court. > I > I DON'T think the justice system is in the pay of Microsoft.  They seems2 > to be rather objective, actually, on this issue.  1 There are some problems related to that approach.'  G Firstly, the authorities that have to investigate that case have to be gD convinced that there is something to investigate that can be really  proven.r  D Secondly, it is very difficult to really prove that someone acts in G a certain way because sHe got money from a somewhat distant competitor.   H Thirdly, the judges might not be payed by Micro$hit but there is little E evidence in history that those subtle and complicated cases are well nC sorted out at court. Normally this ends up with an agreement which aA leaves the question open whether there is really someone guilty.  ? Especially in the USA it is quite common that even in criminal w> cases there is a deal with the state attorney and the accused.  G I suggest to wait until the current case against Micro$hit is finished.t  C VMS will continue only if business is behind it. Even if a case in oB court will be won in several years the fate of VMS will have been ! decided long before businesswise.a   -- m6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 14:51:50 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a Subject: Re: Einsteine3 Message-ID: <w0hguS2HhOet@eisner.encompasserve.org>   n In article <343f30ae.0202201629.47534d3c@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > A > Consequently, Special Relativity is based on experimental data.g  E    So what.  All physics is based on experimental data.  Nevertheless,F    it's primary division is between theoretical and experimental work.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:11:21 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o Subject: Re: einsteinn3 Message-ID: <lw0GqptuhKm9@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  w In article <01KEJ9M8U8EQ8Y7KQF@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:e  J > It is not even clear if Einstein was even AWARE of the Michelson-Morley  > experiment.  u  F    I find that just about impossible to believe.  Given the timing and:    his education I'm quite sure Einstein was well aware of    Michelson-Morley.  C    On the other hand, he was also well aware of Lorentz' work whiche@    mathematically corrected known difficulties between NewtonianB    mechanics and Maxwell's electricity and magnetism theories, butE    were not explained on the basis of physical principle.  Einstein's G    relativity theory explained these corrections, which is why they areo+    known as the Einstein-Lorentz equations.@  E    No significant work in physics has been achieved in isolation from<F    the work of others.  Even though Einstein often worked alone in his1    early years, he was educated in physics first.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:33:48 +0100a' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>e Subject: Re: Einsteint( Message-ID: <3C7567BC.C5C06874@spam.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:   [SNIP]  C There must be a better place to discuss this - or is it in any way   related to VMS?r  B > However, Maxwell's equations were derived from experiment, so ifE > Einstein used that he was still using experimental results. You are F > right about the problem of the force depending on the speed of lightE > (speed of the electrodynamic field as you put it, which is the same F > thing). This was a great mystery until Einstein came up with Special
 > Relativity.f  D I think your conclusion isn't correct that a theoretical hypothesis D which partly uses facts that are experimentally supported is itself D to be regarded as based on experimental results. What really counts F is the part that isn't based on experimental evidence. AFAIK Einstein H is in that respect unique that he proposed several theories long before F any expermimental data could be gathered. Especially the influence of G gravity upon photons couldn't be measured when he predicted the effect.a  E > Also, Richard P. Feynman and two other physicists (I can't remembereG > how to spell their names) were awarded a Nobel prize for developing ab= > method called "renormalization" which was a theoretical (orbG > mathematical, if you prefer) trick to almost literally sweep infiniteoE > terms from a series under the carpet. Their work was strictly aboutnG > calculating quantites in quantum mechanics, so that is as theoretical G > or mathematical as you can get in physics. But it is still related to E > the real world, or at least what experiments tell us about the real 8 > world. And more importantly, they still got the prize.  D There is a nice anecdote about the relation between theoretical and D experimental physics that is too long to tell it here. The moral is C that normally the theory is built based upon the observations. But e> there are indeed exceptions which have to be regarded as very < precious. There is also the very unpleasant phenomenon that = observations are dropped that don't fit into the theoretical i? picture. Only when the theory advances those experimental data l, are sometimes revived and newly interpreted.  B > Of course the criteria for a Nobel prize may have changed in the1 > intervening years between Einstein and Feynman.a >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanx# > afeldman ;d;d;dnonon gfigroup.comi   -- y6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:43:58 +0100e' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>u Subject: Re: einsteinh( Message-ID: <3C756A1E.3AD44797@spam.net>   Phillip Helbig wrote:  > 2 > > Special Relativity is based on two postulates: > I > > The second postulate is the result of the Michelson-Morley experimentf > C > > Consequently, Special Relativity is based on experimental data.. > . > Except that that is not the way it happened. > I > It is not even clear if Einstein was even AWARE of the Michelson-Morley2J > experiment.  True, IF he was, he COULD HAVE incorporated it into specialG > relativity.  He consistently said that it didn't play any part in hisrH > formulation of special relativity.  (Otherwise, he always acknowledgedB > experimental input.  For example, he always acknowledged PhilippH > Lenard's excellent work on the photoelectric effect, even after Lenard1 > started attacking him on anti-Semitic grounds.)  > D > There is only one reality.  The path to understanding it, however,H > depends on accidents of history.  There are many cases where somethingJ > was arrived at via "first principles" and later showed up in experiment,@ > as well as the opposite case, where theory initially explained
 > experiment.i > + > It is a give and take in both directions.e > H > In other words, the history of science is in some sense independent ofI > science; an extraterrestrial civilisation would agree with us about theoJ > facts of science, but would have an entirely different history.  Art and5 > art history, by contrast, are more closely related.o   Well spoken!  H But in history of physics the observations played a much more important < role than theoretical considerations ahead of experimenting.  B Is there another NG to move this and the other Einstein thread to?   --  6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:01:14 GMTs4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: einsteine0 Message-ID: <3C75892E.D4E90113@blueyonder.co.uk>   Brass Christof wrote:   AD > Is there another NG to move this and the other Einstein thread to?  n- sci.physics.relativity looks like a good bet.e     -- a Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  s  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of g! my employers or service provider.y   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 18:38:53 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Einsteinn= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0202211838.260f68e5@posting.google.com>u  W Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net> wrote in message news:<3C7567BC.C5C06874@spam.net>...i > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > [SNIP] > E > There must be a better place to discuss this - or is it in any way   > related to VMS?t > D > > However, Maxwell's equations were derived from experiment, so ifG > > Einstein used that he was still using experimental results. You areeH > > right about the problem of the force depending on the speed of lightG > > (speed of the electrodynamic field as you put it, which is the same<H > > thing). This was a great mystery until Einstein came up with Special > > Relativity.e > F > I think your conclusion isn't correct that a theoretical hypothesis F > which partly uses facts that are experimentally supported is itself F > to be regarded as based on experimental results. What really counts   A If Nobel prizes are based on "invention and discovery", certainly ' Special Relativity counts as discovery!c  H > is the part that isn't based on experimental evidence. AFAIK Einstein J > is in that respect unique that he proposed several theories long before H > any expermimental data could be gathered. Especially the influence of   C What several theories? His explanation/theory for the photoelectric D effect explained it whereas it could not be explained satisfactorilyF in the framework of classical physics. He explained Brownian motion inB terms of statistical mechanics. He developed special relativity toF reconcile the contradictions between Newtonian mechanics and classicalB electromagnetic theory. He developed General Relativity to explain? gravitation in a way that was consistent with the principles ofdB Special Relativity. These theories had predicted various amount of
 other things.   F Many theories predict new things. Dirac predicted the existence of theC positiron before (maybe not long before, I'd have to look it up) itdE was known. Many other particles were predicted by physicists based ona: quantum mechanics and known properties of known particles.  I > gravity upon photons couldn't be measured when he predicted the effect.   A This is exactly what I was talking about when I said the theoriesaE predict new results that can be tested by experiment. Einstein is notm? unique in this respect. He is unique in that he did much of his1C greatest work outside of academia and he was truly a great thinker.s  @ And the only thing that delayed cheking the effect of gravity on@ photons was WWI. When the war was over, Eddington (IIRC) went onD expedition to the next solar eclipse and measured stars near the sun' to be deflected as given by the theory.u  C Some theories do not predict anything that can be currently tested,, e.g. string theory.h   > G > > Also, Richard P. Feynman and two other physicists (I can't rememberpI > > how to spell their names) were awarded a Nobel prize for developing a ? > > method called "renormalization" which was a theoretical (oroI > > mathematical, if you prefer) trick to almost literally sweep infinitepG > > terms from a series under the carpet. Their work was strictly about.I > > calculating quantites in quantum mechanics, so that is as theoretical I > > or mathematical as you can get in physics. But it is still related toyG > > the real world, or at least what experiments tell us about the realt: > > world. And more importantly, they still got the prize. > F > There is a nice anecdote about the relation between theoretical and F > experimental physics that is too long to tell it here. The moral is E > that normally the theory is built based upon the observations. But r@ > there are indeed exceptions which have to be regarded as very > > precious. There is also the very unpleasant phenomenon that ? > observations are dropped that don't fit into the theoretical oA > picture. Only when the theory advances those experimental data  . > are sometimes revived and newly interpreted.  A Sometimes the initial experiments are wrong. Distances to distantnB stars, nebula, and especially galaxies were initially way off. TheE discovery of a second type of Cepheid variables (which was previouslydF taken to be a "standard candle") cleared up much of this. So it's okay  to ignore the incorrect results!   > D > > Of course the criteria for a Nobel prize may have changed in the3 > > intervening years between Einstein and Feynman.e   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmana! afeldman ;d;d;dnonon gfigroup.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:02:59 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: EV7 rules ... more proof of EV8 conspirarcy!a9 Message-ID: <Tncd8.7110$ro5.3152344@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>q  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagee7 news:d7791aa1.0202211002.4fb27792@posting.google.com....8 > from the inquirer and Terry ... buy the way Terry, you8 > are a stockholder ... read the truth about EV8 article7 > I posted and tell me if you are outraged and what you  > plan on doing about it ...  J I was less than enthused by the events of June 25 but I can appreciate howF much it would have cost to go forward with EV8 (especially in light of? declining Alpha market share, due in no small part to marketingh
 malfeasance).n  J I own perhaps 1K shares of CPQ. Can't do a hell of a lot with this minimalK amount of clout. I will, however, attend the 20 March stockholder's meeting H (fully equipped with evidence of stock possession so that the PR weeniesJ can't try to throw me out of the meeting as they almost managed to do last year!)    I By the way, all the systems cited in the article are EV68 based. Not EV7,tH and certainly not EV8. EV7 appears to be looking pretty good these days, though.- >-- > Alpha: Undead, and trashing the competition0 >r > Fastest chip on earthr+ > By Terry Shannon, 21/02/2002 16:31:20 BST  > C > ALPHACIDE OR NO, the fastest processor on the planet continues to.# > garner sales and bragging rights.cC > In CY01 AlphaServer systems broke through the terascale boundary,hE > delivering multi-TFLOPS systems to Pittsburgh Supercomputer Center,hF > the French Atomic Energy Commission, Los Alamos National Laboratory,> > Sandia National Laboratory, the Japan Atomic Energy Research! > Institute, and Celera Genomics.  >oE > Omitted from this hit parade are the new Buffalo, NY BioinformaticsvG > Center and some incremental AlphaServer sales at the Sanger Centre inf > Cambridge, UK. >aG > Compaq won seven of the world's most powerful supercomputing programs E > in 2000 and 2001. These include: the most powerful supercomputer intD > Hollywood (Fox Blue Sky Studios; 512 AlphaServer DS10Ls), the mostC > powerful bioinformatics supercomputer in the US (Celera Genomics,eG > belting out 1.3 TFlops), the largest European bioinformatics computergG > (GeneProt; 1420 AlphaServer DS10L systems delivering 1.9 TFlops), thes? > most powerful Linux Supercomputer (Sandia National Labs; 1800tB > processors), the most powerful computer in Europe (French AtomicG > Commission, >5 TFlops), the most powerful university supercomputer in F > Australia (APAC: Australian Partnership for Advanced Computing), theG > most powerful Civilian supercomputer (Pittsburgh Supercomputer CenteriG > TCS-1; conservatively rated at 6 TFlops), and last but not least, theoE > most powerful supercomputer the world has ever known (ASCI Q at LoshF > Alamos National Labs; which will deliver 30 TFlops by the end of theF > year and will scaling up to an incredible 100 Tflops during the next > several years.)d > D > So much for rumours of the death of Alpha. Further confounding theC > Armani Analysts and other alarmist nay-sayers,SKC can confirm theiD > existence of scads of EV7-based Marvel systems in Marlboro, MA and > elsewhere.  >tD > This article is copyright Terry Shannon 2002. He is the editor andF > publisher of close Compaq watching newsletter, Shannon knows Compaq.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:29:14 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e9 Subject: Re: EV7 rules ... more proof of EV8 conspirarcy!d0 Message-ID: <KEdd8.2771$4xE.1882@news1.bloor.is>  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messaget3 news:Tncd8.7110$ro5.3152344@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net...  >  >OL > I own perhaps 1K shares of CPQ. Can't do a hell of a lot with this minimalE > amount of clout. I will, however, attend the 20 March stockholder'se meetingtJ > (fully equipped with evidence of stock possession so that the PR weeniesL > can't try to throw me out of the meeting as they almost managed to do last > year!) >n >  Terry,  I Get the SEC involved if they don't let you in, or don't let you vote your A shares (make sure you check for details on your proxy statement).l  K And get a Federal Court judge in Compaq's incorporation jurisdiction to set G aside the shareholder vote if they don't allow you to attend or vote in . accordance with the bylaws and/or proxy terms.  I Remember, Capella's et al. were hired by shareholders to MANAGE, not own.sC You might just want to make a motion from the floor to have all the & directors and senior executives fired.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:18:42 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>uG Subject: Re: EV8 ... the true story!  Capellas/Q sell out shareholders!a, Message-ID: <3C75480F.9FD8AE15@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:aC > The defunct Alpha EV8 design was arguably the most aggressive and-G > ambitious high end microprocessor design ever publicly disclosed. HadoA > it been completed and functioned as its designers intended, andsH > brought to market within a reasonable time frame, it would have likelyA > taken the performance leadership crown against all contenders, n    N Compaq's arguments, which we are expected to believe, is that IA64 would catchG up to that fantastic performance and that it wasn't worth pursuing it. r  N Whether the logic is flawed or not, it is a fact.  Live with it. Like Digital,J Compaq is getting rid of anything that is not part of where it wants to goF today.  Let Compaq go where it wants to go. Right now, it is slated to- willingly go into oblivion in a month or two.   M It might have been more satisfying to see Compaq left alone to rot and divestBM itself of assets left and right until it becomes just a storage company, justwM like Data General, or better yet, declare an enron bankrupcy, at which point, L the stupid "vision" decision taken by Winkler and Capellas would be aired inM the US government hearing and all fingers would point to Microsoft as the big " culprit. But that is just a dream.     Compaq is gone.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:23:17 -0500x( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>G Subject: Re: EV8 ... the true story!  Capellas/Q sell out shareholders!', Message-ID: <3C758F75.9000103@tsoft-inc.com>   Bob Ceculski wrote:e  > > everyone wishing to learn the true story about EV8 must read@ > this fascinating article ... the link follows along w/summary! > K > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?section=columns&AID=RWT021802145442s >  > Conclusion > C > The defunct Alpha EV8 design was arguably the most aggressive and G > ambitious high end microprocessor design ever publicly disclosed. HadRA > it been completed and functioned as its designers intended, andFH > brought to market within a reasonable time frame, it would have likelyG > taken the performance leadership crown against all contenders, as hadsG > three previous generations of Alpha microprocessors. Although the EV7sH > should prove to be an outstanding technical success, and possibly evenH > a minor commercial one too, it will forever stand in the shadow of theF > EV8 and Compaq&#8217;s decision to trap the Arana in a corporate web. > of intrigue and quickly and quietly kill it. >   G This isn't a new piece of information.  A significant number of people aC have shown displeasure at Compaq's action with EV8.  The projected eF capabilities of EV8 have not been some deeply guarded secret.  People 7 interested have had such information for some time now.i  G Compaq does not want to be in the chip business, nor apparently in the  F compiler business, and found a way to get out of such businesses.  As I for the compilers, maybe that was a price extracted by Intel, but seeing  G Compaq's interest in developing technology vs using what was developed  E by others, they probably wanted rid of what was/is arguably the best bL compiler people ever to exist, along with the best CPU design to ever exist.  H Bottom line, nobody has come forward with the bucks and resolve to make G EV8 a reality.  Bemoaning Compaq's actions further isn't constructive. uB It really was their decision to make.  At some point you move on. F However, with respect to broken commitments, I'd suggest that you not  forget.    Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:38:01 GMTB* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>5 Subject: Re: EV8 and McKinley analysis by Paul DeMoneeC Message-ID: <JUcd8.141048$Aw2.10023924@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0202210823.75169959@posting.google.com... F > Paul DeMone of RealWorldTech has done an analysis of the EV8 and the* > McKinley based on the ISSCC papers.  SeeK > http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?section=columns&AID=RWT021802145442; >n > Some interesting conclusions:o >lC > EV8: "It would have likely taken the performance leadership crown-D > against all contenders, as had three previous generations of AlphaE > microprocessors. Although the EV7 should prove to be an outstandingAE > technical success, and possibly even a minor commercial one too, iti@ > will forever stand in the shadow of the EV8 and Compaq&#8217;sG > decision to trap the Arana in a corporate web of intrigue and quicklye > and quietly kill it."r >nD > McKinley: "A well designed chip with an incredibly capable on-chipA > cache hierarchy. That cache hierarchy, combined with many otherrH > measures to minimize instruction execution latency as well as increase@ > the clock rate, should help McKinley overcome the burden of anC > ill-conceived and misguided instruction set architecture to yielda@ > respectable integer and floating point performance levels.  ByH > offering decent high end performance at relatively low costs (from itsG > chip merchant business model and potential economies of scale), Intel F > and its business partners will likely see strong customer acceptance9 > when it officially releases McKinley later this year. "w  J Indeed, there may have been some sand-bagging going on in the reports thatI McKinley would be 1.5 - 2 times the performance of Merced - since this isnJ the first time I've heard the wording "per clock" added to that statement.H At SPECint of 314 - 379 for Merced, values for McKinley in the 550 - 700F region would have been expectable without that addition (and with someG reason to believe that they'd be toward the lower end of that range, ata about 600).t  J *With* the addition, Paul's estimate of 800 becomes a lot more believable,H but I still wonder if it's a bit high.  E.g., another figure that's beenJ floating around recently is 0.75 SPECint/MHz (which would yield a McKinleyH SPECint of 750):  Paul refers to that in his presentation and notes thatI it's consistent with a 1.5x per-clock Merced performance since Merced wasrK said to generate 0.5 SPECint/MHz - but since no Merced figure I've yet seenoI actually attains 400 SPECint (which would be the expected value given itsuL 800 MHz clock) that would suggest an actual shipping McKinley SPECint figureF in the 650 - 700 range (though if you up the 1.5 value to 1.7 for codeI recompiled to optimize for McKinley then this does get back to around 800l again).i  G Whatever - we'll know soon enough.  The idea that Intel might have been-H deliberately lowering expectations so that McKinley could exceed them isK hardly surprising, given how much they need *something* to make people feelb5 better about the archtecture as a whole.  And Alpha'ssL unfortunately-curtailed future means that it may not matter much whether EV7I enjoys a 1.3x SPECint advantage over McKinley or a 1.6x advantage (thoughtK it's still telling that a many-years-old EV6 core design can beat the pants F off the second generation of the vaunted EPIC architecture, and Paul'sL comments make it clear that EV8 could have continued to do so indefinitely).  H McKinley's main problem will be that even at 800 SPECint (if it actuallyC attains that) it will look sickly compared with the very definitelynI still-robust POWER4 competition, which has not only about the same figureiK for just *one* of the 2 cores on its die (which makes for roughly twice theeG performance both per package and per Watt) but dramatically more MP andlE memory bandwidth available as well.  In the higher-end server marketstG McKinley is aimed at, both are significant disadvantages - while in the G lower-end server markets it might otherwise find refuge in its own IA32dE brethren will make it look expensive and slow (as will Hammer when it 	 arrives).p  I Just not being quite as bad as some had feared does not seem likely to bedK enough to assure McKinley's success:  it'll still have to earn it, and fromrI any reasonable price/performance viewpoint shows little prospect of doingi so.a   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2002 00:14:36 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)l5 Subject: Re: EV8 and McKinley analysis by Paul DeMones3 Message-ID: <ABgYa0TnSmMp@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  p In article <JUcd8.141048$Aw2.10023924@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: >    	Oh my!    > L > Indeed, there may have been some sand-bagging going on in the reports thatK > McKinley would be 1.5 - 2 times the performance of Merced - since this iseL > the first time I've heard the wording "per clock" added to that statement.J > At SPECint of 314 - 379 for Merced, values for McKinley in the 550 - 700H > region would have been expectable without that addition (and with someI > reason to believe that they'd be toward the lower end of that range, atg
 > about 600).a > L > *With* the addition, Paul's estimate of 800 becomes a lot more believable,J > but I still wonder if it's a bit high.  E.g., another figure that's beenL > floating around recently is 0.75 SPECint/MHz (which would yield a McKinleyJ > SPECint of 750):  Paul refers to that in his presentation and notes thatK > it's consistent with a 1.5x per-clock Merced performance since Merced waseM > said to generate 0.5 SPECint/MHz - but since no Merced figure I've yet seenuK > actually attains 400 SPECint (which would be the expected value given its.N > 800 MHz clock) that would suggest an actual shipping McKinley SPECint figureH > in the 650 - 700 range (though if you up the 1.5 value to 1.7 for codeK > recompiled to optimize for McKinley then this does get back to around 800a	 > again).  >   B 	700, 800 .... doesn't matter.  If in that range, all it will need  	to succeed.  Earlier you wrote:   http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mckinley+pentium+pro+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&selm=DIRN7.80996%24YD.6700300%40news2.aus1.giganews.com&rnum=5g  N [Intel's] published road maps have McKinley showing up next year at about 1.6x( Merced's pathetic (integer) performance.  > 	At 1.6, that puts McKinley at best (1.6 * 379) or 606.  BelowC 	750 or 800.  At 750, that's 25% better than 600.  Another snippet:e  F Or, to put it another way, Itanic is about 2 years behind the industryJ leaders in integer performance today, and appears to be 3 - 4 years behindK in being able to implement the next couple of rounds of technology advancess   [snip]  N A document that suggests that this situation will completely reverse itself inO 3 or 4 years without *major* analysis to back it up is - well, laughable is the > most charitable characterization I can come up with right now.  ? 	It may seem laughable ... but if they roll at 750 integer that,B 	will be a great achievement and will go from being 2 years behind8 	to nearly caught up... and completely reversing itself.  I > Whatever - we'll know soon enough.  The idea that Intel might have beennJ > deliberately lowering expectations so that McKinley could exceed them isM > hardly surprising, given how much they need *something* to make people feele, > better about the archtecture as a whole.    A 	That they do sandbag is true, your reasoning is not what I woulde= 	agree with.  As I mentioned earlier, they did the same thingr 	with the Pentium Pro:   http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mckinley+pentium+pro+group:comp.os.vms&hl=en&selm=9c40b5bf.0108092108.2635caf2%40posting.google.com&rnum=4  & From: Rob Young (robyoung@my-deja.com)G Subject: Re: I just have to post this - and apoligse later Alpha/Intel   Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsr Date: 2001-08-09    J 3)  It isn't about performance or lack of.  It isn't as if Intel has neverO sand-bagged.  They sand-bagged us all on Pentium Pro, quite the shocker there. d) They are sand-bagging us on McKinley too.a  
 > And Alpha'soN > unfortunately-curtailed future means that it may not matter much whether EV7K > enjoys a 1.3x SPECint advantage over McKinley or a 1.6x advantage (thoughpM > it's still telling that a many-years-old EV6 core design can beat the pants.H > off the second generation of the vaunted EPIC architecture, and Paul'sN > comments make it clear that EV8 could have continued to do so indefinitely). >   G 	Yeah but... Marvel based systems ought to have about 7-10 times higheryB 	STREAM numbers than McKinley based systems... that will translateE 	into much higher numbers for bandwidth sensitve applications... that A 	and 30%+ greater local memory latency, 64 processor systems with C 	better average memory latency than competing 32 processor systems. A 	EV7 will make for much stronger high-end systems.  A nice niche.s  J > McKinley's main problem will be that even at 800 SPECint (if it actuallyE > attains that) it will look sickly compared with the very definitelyoK > still-robust POWER4 competition, which has not only about the same figuresM > for just *one* of the 2 cores on its die (which makes for roughly twice theeI > performance both per package and per Watt) but dramatically more MP andiG > memory bandwidth available as well.  In the higher-end server marketsmI > McKinley is aimed at, both are significant disadvantages - while in theoI > lower-end server markets it might otherwise find refuge in its own IA322G > brethren will make it look expensive and slow (as will Hammer when itw > arrives).  >   ? 	Yeah but.... that 1 cycle access L1 and 64 GB/sec L2 bandwidthc6 	should make for some very nice McKinley tpmC numbers.  K > Just not being quite as bad as some had feared does not seem likely to be2M > enough to assure McKinley's success:  it'll still have to earn it, and from K > any reasonable price/performance viewpoint shows little prospect of doingc > so.   @ 	Just have to wait and see some numbers.  The fact that McKinley@ 	has upside on a known weak spot of the Itanic (Integer), proves? 	that the architecture isn't totally brain dead.  After all, atp@ 	800 SpecInt2000 that would put it more than 40% better than theG 	best UltraSparc integer number out there today... and we know how welleA 	Sun is doing with their weak UltraSparc.  Imagine how well Intela> 	will do with a much stronger McKinley in an Industry Standard 	box!   G 	Price performance?  Ever priced an IBM 690?  Bet that McKinley servers B 	are considerably cheaper and yeah... the sales angle for McKinley= 	will be price performance angles, especially if you get themo@ 	with 16, 32 or 64 GBytes of RAM.  IBM RAM costs a lot more than 	Dell RAM.  ;-)    				Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:52:53 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result? & Message-ID: <3C754204.384B9EA8@gmx.fr>   First, I answer this one:s  H > Two consecutive double quotes within a qouted string seem to be pretty: > consistently handled as a single double quote character. > C > $ write sys$output f$extract(0,80,"This is a ""demo"" of string")2 > This is a "demo" of string   I agree with this one.  3 > $ write sys$output "This is a ""demo"" of string"m > This is a "demo" of string   I agree with this one too.  6 > $ x = f$extract(0,80,"This is a ""demo"" of string")
 > $ sho sym xs$ >   X = "This is a "demo" of string"  J I do not agree with this one. I ask for some characters within a string, IN expect to get my characters, not to see DCL doing this and that, even if it is! correct at display time, you see?     & > $ x = "This is a ""demo"" of string"
 > $ sho sym xe$ >   X = "This is a "demo" of string"   I agree with this one.  sH > It appears to me that there is a syntax error in this write statement. > Should it be:  > J > $ write sys$output "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at ","''today'"J >                                                               ^^       ^  9 No. I specified that "today" = f$time(). So you can write   & $ write sys$output "a string ",'today'   which is equivalent to  ' $ write sys$output "a string ",f$time()t   which givesc   a string 20-feb-2002 20:02.00a   More in next posts.h   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:11:43 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?e& Message-ID: <3C75466E.2285321B@gmx.fr>   Charlie Hammond wrote: > E > I bit more "experimenting" suggest that both F$LOCATE and F$EXTRACTl/ > consistently treat imbeded two-double quotes.e > 0 > $ write sys$output f$locate("*","ABC""*""DEF") > 4o1 > $ write sys$output f$extract(4,1,"ABC""*""DEF")  > *a, > $ write sys$output f$locate("*","ABC*DEF") > 3e- > $ write sys$output f$extract(3,1,"ABC*DEF")t > *h    I agree with this (fortunately).  O My problem came from the fact that the line was written in a text file (you alltM guessed, i'm doing DCL code analysis) and I didn't expect DCL to "process" my,
 source lines.o   I solved my problem with   $ i=0t $LOOP: $ char = f$extract(i,1,line) $ c_'i' = charG $ if char .eqs. quote then q_table  = q_table  + "''i' "	!my processingn8 $ if char .eqs. sq    then sq_table = sq_table + "''i' " $ i=i+1 & $ if i .lt. f$len(line) then goto LOOP   then   $ i=0  $ line = ""i $LOOP2:i $ line = line + c_'i'n $ i=i+1s' $ if i .lt. f$len(line) then goto LOOP2r $ sh symb line  ( and I got my genuine line "unprocessed".  K As far as the wrong length of the returned string is concerned, here is the-9 original code in which I thought I found a so-called bug:a   $!+b $! SCAN_QUOTES.COM $! 20-feb-2002 D. Morandit $!-u $ on warning then exit $ say = "write sys$output" $!N $! "$ say "We'll ""test"" nr ''i' for demo nr ",'demo_nr_str'," into  ''loc'""N $! ^    ^    !   ^^    ^^    ^^ ^             ^ ^           ^ ^       ^^   ^^^N $! !    !    A   !!    !!    !! !__ ces       ! !           ! !       !!   !!!N $! !    !  oeq __!!    !!    !!__ oes         ! !__ oss     ! ! oes __!!   !!!N $! !    !        ceq __!!                     !       css __! !      ces __!!!N $! !    !__ ost                         cst __!         ost __!       cst __!!N $! !                                                                         !N $! !__ DCL record delimiter (should not be processed) DCL record delimiter __! $!L $! $ say "We'll ""test"" nr ''i' for demo nr ",'demo_nr_str'," into  ''loc'"L $! 0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012J $!           1         2         3         4         5         6         7
 $! Legend: $!  A  = apostropheo@ $! oeq = open enclosed quote          ceq = close enclosed quoteG $! oes = open enclosed substitution   ces = close enclosed substitutionnE $! oss = open simple substitution     css = close simple substitutioni8 $! ost = open string                  cst = close string $! $ create y.y $DECKrI $ say "We'll ""test"" nr ''i' for demo nr ",'demo_nr_str'," into  ''loc'"o $EOD $ close/nolog ch $ open/read ch y.y $ read ch line
 $ close ch
 $ dele_ y.y.*s $ i=0f $ q_table  = ""  $ sq_table = ""e $ quote[0,8] = 34  $ sq[0,8] = 39 $LOOP: $ char = f$extract(i,1,line)8 $ if char .eqs. quote then q_table  = q_table  + "''i' "8 $ if char .eqs. sq    then sq_table = sq_table + "''i' " $ i=i+1f& $ if i .lt. f$len(line) then goto LOOP $ nq = 0I $! This piece of code courtesy (c) Charlie Hammond, COMPAQ Computer Corp., $COUNT_QUOTES:" $ work = f$element(nq," ",q_table), $ if work .eqs. " " then goto QUOTES_COUNTED
 $ nq = nq + 1i $ goto COUNT_QUOTES % $! end of courtesy (well, I hope not)A $! $QUOTES_COUNTED:
 $ nq = nq - 1w $ sq = 0 $! $COUNT_S_QUOTES:# $ work = f$element(sq," ",sq_table) . $ if work .eqs. " " then goto S_QUOTES_COUNTED
 $ sq = sq + 12 $ goto COUNT_S_QUOTESe $!( $!   Q_TABLE = "6 13 14 19 20 42 58 72 "+ $!  SQ_TABLE = "9 25 26 28 44 56 66 67 71 "t $! $S_QUOTES_COUNTED:
 $ sq = sq - 1a8 $ say "There are ",nq," quotes and ",sq," single quotes"B $ if (nq - (nq/2)*2) .ne. 0 then say "UNMATCHING number of quotes" $! $ line_len = f$len(line)! $ oeq_pos = f$locate("""""",line)D $ if oeq_pos .ne. line_len $ then+ $    remain = f$extract(oeq_pos+2,999,line)K $    remain_len = f$len(remain)y& $    oeq_pos = f$locate("""""",remain)C $    if oeq_pos .eq. remain_len then goto EMBEDDED_QUOTE_NOT_CLOSEDr $ endifs& $ ost_pos = 'f$element(0," ",q_table)'&             ^                        ^O Here was the problem. I didn't put single quotes and got a string value insteadn of a numberr   $ if nq .eq. 2 $ then) $    cst_pos = 'f$element(1," ",q_table)'o)                ^                        ^t
 Here same.   $    goto DONE $ else $    if oeq_pos .ne. line_len.	 $    thenh/ $       if nq .lt. 5 then goto ERROR_IN_Q_TABLEi, $       cst_pos = 'f$element(5," ",q_table)'	 $    else,, $       cst_pos = 'f$element(1," ",q_table)'
 $    endif $ endif7 $DONE: $ nr   = "1" $ i    = "2" $ demo = "3" $ sh symb line< $ say "String #1 starts in ",ost_pos," and ends in ",cst_pos. $ say "cst_pos - ost_pos = ",cst_pos - ost_pos        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^5 And here I got "42" - "6" = 42 instead of 42 - 6 = 36t  - $ say "String length is ",(cst_pos-ost_pos)+1aD $ say "String is: >",f$extract(ost_pos,(cst_pos-ost_pos)+1,line),"<" $! tbs $ exit     Thanks for playing with us. O Now you know why this was not a DCL minute of the Day, I was not sure at all...l   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 11:06:39 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?n= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202211106.6a81ef6c@posting.google.com>i  Z Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr> wrote in message news:<3C7483CE.CD83F521@gmx.fr>...N > Has anyone noticed that the F$EXTRACT lexical function sometimes seems to doP > parsing and substitution of "embedded two quotes to one" and embedded variableJ > substitution? (by "embedded" I mean "within a quoted string") instead ofM > returning what you want, i.e. the genuine string it is supposed to extract.t > M > I'm still writing a demo because the event does occur in a random way on mybP > system (Alpha 7.2-1H1), and I have learned since ages that there is no "ramdom > behaviour" within DCL. >  > In two words, if you dot >  > $ open/read ch my_file.txt > $ read ch line > $ close ch > $ show symb lineQ >   LINE = "$ write sys$output "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at ",'today'h > ../..c >  > (today = f$time()) > then > A > $ string = f$extract(first-quote,last_quote-first_quote+1,line)b > R > (first_quote being the position of the quote after "sys$output", not after the =K > sign, which is part of the SHOW SYMBOL output, and last_quote having beenp2 > computed as the quote position before the comma) > B > you do not get the actual piece of string you wish to get, i.e.: > , > "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at " > O > but DCL substitutes first the two quotes enclosing the word DEMO by one, theneT > replaces ''i' by its value (well, as far as my testing tells me, up to yesterday). >  > and sends back:c > 2 > "This is ""demo"" No ''i' for VMS Eng at ",'toda > H > i.e. string length + 6 chars, which is obviously not what I asked for.    F Please try your example again but adding the following commands before+ the WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(... command:   *     $ FIRST_QUOTE = F$INTEGER(FIRST_QUOTE)(     $ LAST_QUOTE = F$INTEGER(LAST_QUOTE)  D For some reason, the arithmetic in the second parameter of F$EXTRACTC does string arithmetic by default. I think that is the cause of the 
 problem here.      > If you do a: > I > $ write sys$output f$extract(first-quote,last_quote-first_quote+1,line)d > # > assuming that i = "", you'll get:P > + > "This is "demo" No for VMS Eng at ",'todaa > < > (and this behaviour is NOT reported in the DCL "bible" :-) > 
 > More later.h    D No comment on this weirdity at this time as I haven't checked it out( yet. More sooner or later or not at all.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmani# afeldman wpqifeuvbwpev gfigroup comt   >  > D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:13:42 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?t, Message-ID: <3C7554ED.FBF34AD3@videotron.ca>   Didier Morandi wrote: 8 > > $ x = f$extract(0,80,"This is a ""demo"" of string") > > $ sho sym xr& > >   X = "This is a "demo" of string" > L > I do not agree with this one. I ask for some characters within a string, IB > expect to get my characters, not to see DCL doing this and that,  = The thing you must understand is that f$extract is being fed:l% 	-->This is a "demo" of a string<----n  A F$extract never sees that you had 2 quotes before and after demo.n  I DCL stipulates that to include a quote inside a string, you must enter itON twice. So as DCL parses the line, it sees the start of a string with "This andN when it hits the first " before demo, it has to decide whether this is the endJ of the string or whether there is another quote, in which case, a quote isK added to the string and the following characters continue to be appended to5N the string (instead of end of string being detected and the parser looking for the next argument).v  @ If you want your double quotes in the string, you need to enter:  9  $ x = f$extract(0,80,"This is a """"demo"""" of string")e  N Once had a config file where I had to spend a lot of time figuring out exactlyH how a decnet object name would have to be built because with the variousI manipulations done afterwards, the quotes would "disapear" so the initiale- object was very ugly with a gazillion quotes.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:29:31 +01005, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?t& Message-ID: <3C7558AA.5DA00E45@gmx.fr>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > H > Please try your example again but adding the following commands before- > the WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(... command:l > , >     $ FIRST_QUOTE = F$INTEGER(FIRST_QUOTE)* >     $ LAST_QUOTE = F$INTEGER(LAST_QUOTE) > F > For some reason, the arithmetic in the second parameter of F$EXTRACTE > does string arithmetic by default. I think that is the cause of thep > problem here.v   BINGO !l   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:28:16 +0100e, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr>9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result? & Message-ID: <3C75585F.AFA5873E@gmx.fr>   JF Mezei wrote:l > B > If you want your double quotes in the string, you need to enter: > ; >  $ x = f$extract(0,80,"This is a """"demo"""" of string")   P Well, this is not what I wanted. I wanted, and I still want, to do DCL code scanO (without having to look at Charlie's DCL_CHECK, if you understand what I mean).    Your explanation is right.  1 I'll use my c_'i' structure and I'll be happy :-)l   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:46:44 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)9 Subject: Re: F$EXTRACT does parsing before giving result?t= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202211546.27770de3@posting.google.com>t  Z Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.fr> wrote in message news:<3C754204.384B9EA8@gmx.fr>... > First, I answer this one:  > J > > Two consecutive double quotes within a qouted string seem to be pretty< > > consistently handled as a single double quote character.   [agreed examples omitted]   8 > > $ x = f$extract(0,80,"This is a ""demo"" of string") > > $ sho sym x.& > >   X = "This is a "demo" of string" > L > I do not agree with this one. I ask for some characters within a string, IP > expect to get my characters, not to see DCL doing this and that, even if it is# > correct at display time, you see?n  C I agree (with DCL!). Any time you put double quotes inside a quoted D string they show up as single quotes. If you want double quotes, putD in quadruple quotes. These double quotes are being processed as partE of a DCL command as opposed to being read in by the READ command. The B READ command processes the data verbatim as documented whereas DCL must perform quote processing.  : Quotes and apostrophes are processed first -- before "=".    Example:   DCL> SYMBOL = "HELLO THERE"a" DCL> A = "Check it out: ''SYMBOL'"
 DCL> SH SYM A3!   A = "Check it out: HELLO THERE"r@ DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(0,999,"Check it out: ''SYMBOL'") Check it out: HELLO THEREa? DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(12,1,"Check it out: ''SYMBOL'")h :c? DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(13,1,"Check it out: ''SYMBOL'")n  u? DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(14,1,"Check it out: ''SYMBOL'")m Hu? DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(15,1,"Check it out: ''SYMBOL'")e Ea DCL>  D In the example above, F$EXTRACT gives you characters from the stringC *after* symbol substitution (apostrophe processing). So, it appears ( that the same goes for quote processing.  C If you did x = "This is a ""demo"" of string", the string would notfC contain the double quotes. Why should it be different for F$EXTRACTiF than for all other uses of quoted double quotes in other DCL commands?  = More evidence: If you do turn off "quote mode" in mid string:l  B DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$EXTRACT(0,999,"Check it out: "''SYMBOL'"") Check it out: SYMBOL DCL>  F You can see that the apostrophes are processed as though they were notC inside a quoted string. That is the effect that a single quote in awF quoted string has: it "cancels" quote mode, and single apostrophes act@ as they do outside a quoted string. So the first two apostrophesC disappear The second apostrophe also goes away as it has nothing to3B translate and the symbol name between them is null and ''SYMBOL'""@ disappears harmlessly (a quasi-miracle)! So quote processing and# apostrophe processing happen first.   A The one exception to the double up quoted quotes rule (for quotediC strings in DCL commands) is when you use apostrophes to force early 8 evaluation of a lexical function inside a quoted string:  F DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "It will be ''F$CVTIME("+1")' an hour from now."3 It will be 2002-02-22 00:38:58.60 an hour from now.mB DCL> WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "It will be ''F$CVTIME(""+1"")' an hour from now." 3 It will be 2002-02-21 01:00:00.00 an hour from now.t DCL> show time   21-FEB-2002 23:39:12 DCL>    And compare this with the above:   DCL> ev f$cvtime("+1") 2002-02-22 00:45:53.34 DCL> ev f$cvtime(""+1"") 2002-02-21 01:00:00.00   (ev := write sys$output)  C In a previous post I showed some examples that are better than thisl one. The point remains valid!x     [more agreements omitted]     d; > No. I specified that "today" = f$time(). So you can writeh    . No, you said (copied from your original post):   (today = f$time())  E which would give you something like TODAY = "21-FEB-2002 20:00:00.00"I notM  ( > $ write sys$output "a string ",'today' >  > which is equivalent to > ) > $ write sys$output "a string ",f$time()  > 
 > which givesr >  > a string 20-feb-2002 20:02.00j >  > More in next posts.s >  > D.   Disclaimer: JMHO    &'"D Alan E. FeldmanE( afeldman 2lk42l3k4 gfigroup l21kjl12 com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 13:01:37 -0600B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)S Subject: Re: FreeVMS: what are CPQ's feelings likely to be ?, was: Re: MPE/iX usersd3 Message-ID: <2608O1heUrXC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <d7791aa1.0202201709.161e9091@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: > * > then call it something else ... remember >  >    V --> W indows  >    M --> N >    S --> T  F I agree that a name change if required would be a trivial thing to do.  I What I am more concerned about is if CPQ/HP decide for some reason to trye and block FreeVMS itself.l  H Are there any Compaq posters willing to give a personal opinion on how aG FreeVMS that implements a viable subset of VMS is likely to be received  within CPQ/HP ?t  G What I don't understand is the viewpoint of CPQ/HP is likely to be when C it sees that one of it's products has been re-implemented as a freedD version and that this free version has enough features to be useful.   Simon.   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       p+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:10:38 -0800 From: hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy) F Subject: Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...)= Message-ID: <2c0966c2.0202211510.55f509d8@posting.google.com>r   Hi:x   F   Thanks for the help. I re-wrote the program based on your suggestion6 and I am still having a bit trouble. (detail follows).  
 int main() {" 	int status; 	unsigned int pid;7 	unsigned int base = 4; /* priority for subprocesses */d  / 	$DESCRIPTOR(image, "SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE");*! 	$DESCRIPTOR(output, "test.log");y 	$DESCRIPTOR(proc, "Test");*  ) 	// attribute required to build a mailbox(  	$DESCRIPTOR(boxName,"IPC_BOX");  " 	unsigned short int writeChan = 1;8 	unsigned int maxmsg = 4096;  // each message is 4k long@ 	unsigned int bufquo = 40960; // up to 10 messages can be stored   	struct _iosb iosb;c  6 	// create a mailbox and assign a channel to access it9 	status = sys$crembx(0, &writeChan, maxmsg, bufquo, 0, 0, )                             &boxName, 0);r   	if (status != SS$_NORMAL) 	{3 	   printf ( "SYS$CREMBX has returned abnormally - e)                   status = %d\n",status);" 	   exit(status);. 	}  # 	// write java -help to the mailbox  	char msg[] = "java -help"; ? 	status = sys$qio(0, writeChan, IO$_WRITEVBLK|IO$M_NOW, &iosb, t=                          0, 0, msg, strlen(msg), 0, 0, 0, 0);s 	if (status != SS$_NORMAL) 	{8 	   printf ( "SYS$QIO has returned abnormally - status = %d\n",status); 	   exit(status);d 	}   	// write logout to the mailboxT 	char log[] = "logout"; ? 	status = sys$qio(0, writeChan, IO$_WRITEVBLK|IO$M_NOW, &iosb, "<                          0,0, log, strlen(log), 0, 0, 0, 0); 	if (status != SS$_NORMAL) 	{8 	   printf ( "SYS$QIO has returned abnormally - status = %d\n",status); 	   exit(status);  	}     	// attribute to getdvi  	char buffer[1024];!! 	$DESCRIPTOR(deviceName, buffer);  	struct item_list_3  	{ 		unsigned short buflen; 		unsigned short itmcod; 		void * bufadr; 		unsigned short *reslen;! 	} itemList[] =  	{< 		{1023, DVI$_FULLDEVNAM, buffer, &deviceName.dsc$w_length}, 		{0, 0, 0, 0} 	};   ? 	// use SYS$GETDVI to get the actual mailbox device informationr? 	status = sys$getdvi(0, 0, &boxName, itemList, &iosb, 0, 0, 0);!   	if (status != SS$_NORMAL) 	{1 	   printf ( "SYS$GETDVI has returned abnormally !*                    status = %d\n",status); 	   exit(status);2 	}  ( 	buffer[deviceName.dsc$w_length] = '\0';? 	cout << "The real device name of mailbox: " << buffer << endl;t  - 	// create a detach process to run java -help 9 	status = sys$creprc(&pid, &image, &deviceName, &output,  F                             0, 0, 0, &proc, base, 0, 0, PRC$M_DETACH);   	if (status != SS$_NORMAL) 	{1 	   printf ( "SYS$CREPRC has returned abnormally s*                    status = %d\n",status); 	   exit(status);i 	}           return 0;s },  ? the log file was created and I got the following error message:d  * Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT? Error in device name or inappropriate device type for operation   E I suspect that I did not use the function SYS$GETDVI properly becausetC it seems like SYS$CREPRC has trouble reading from the mailbox giventA the device name. Can any one give me a hand? Thanks for the help.   D By the way, just in case anyone wants to know. here is the output of the program:   $run sam/ The real device name of mailbox: _ALPHA2$MBA144e $      Sammyt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:49:06 GMTy From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGEF Subject: Re: Help on creating a detached process using SYS$CREPRC(...)0 Message-ID: <00A09EA1.AA7E1862@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <2c0966c2.0202211510.55f509d8@posting.google.com>, hchen3@uwo.ca (Sammy) writes:2 >Hi: >  "G >  Thanks for the help. I re-wrote the program based on your suggestion 7 >and I am still having a bit trouble. (detail follows).i >e >int main()f >{
 >	int status;e >	unsigned int pid;I8 >	unsigned int base = 4; /* priority for subprocesses */ > 0 >	$DESCRIPTOR(image, "SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE");" >	$DESCRIPTOR(output, "test.log"); >	$DESCRIPTOR(proc, "Test"); >_* >	// attribute required to build a mailbox! >	$DESCRIPTOR(boxName,"IPC_BOX");e >r# >	unsigned short int writeChan = 1;T9 >	unsigned int maxmsg = 4096;  // each message is 4k long A >	unsigned int bufquo = 40960; // up to 10 messages can be storedn >p >	struct _iosb iosb; >a7 >	// create a mailbox and assign a channel to access it : >	status = sys$crembx(0, &writeChan, maxmsg, bufquo, 0, 0,* >                            &boxName, 0); >  >	if (status != SS$_NORMAL)i >	{_4 >	   printf ( "SYS$CREMBX has returned abnormally - * >                  status = %d\n",status); >	   exit(status); >	}e > $ >	// write java -help to the mailbox >	char msg[] = "java -help";@ >	status = sys$qio(0, writeChan, IO$_WRITEVBLK|IO$M_NOW, &iosb, > >                         0, 0, msg, strlen(msg), 0, 0, 0, 0); >	if (status != SS$_NORMAL)t >	{=9 >	   printf ( "SYS$QIO has returned abnormally - status =g >%d\n",status);2 >	   exit(status); >	}  >   >	// write logout to the mailbox >	char log[] = "logout";@ >	status = sys$qio(0, writeChan, IO$_WRITEVBLK|IO$M_NOW, &iosb, = >                         0,0, log, strlen(log), 0, 0, 0, 0);a >	if (status != SS$_NORMAL), >	{s9 >	   printf ( "SYS$QIO has returned abnormally - status =- >%d\n",status);2 >	   exit(status); >	}  >M >K >	// attribute to getdvi >	char buffer[1024];" >	$DESCRIPTOR(deviceName, buffer); >	struct item_list_3 >	{3 >		unsigned short buflen;t >		unsigned short itmcod;M >		void * bufadr;n >		unsigned short *reslen; >	} itemList[] = >	{@= >		{1023, DVI$_FULLDEVNAM, buffer, &deviceName.dsc$w_length},c >		{0, 0, 0, 0}e >	}; > @ >	// use SYS$GETDVI to get the actual mailbox device information@ >	status = sys$getdvi(0, 0, &boxName, itemList, &iosb, 0, 0, 0); >d >	if (status != SS$_NORMAL)n >	{h2 >	   printf ( "SYS$GETDVI has returned abnormally + >                   status = %d\n",status);b >	   exit(status); >	}u >n) >	buffer[deviceName.dsc$w_length] = '\0';H@ >	cout << "The real device name of mailbox: " << buffer << endl; >u. >	// create a detach process to run java -help: >	status = sys$creprc(&pid, &image, &deviceName, &output, G >                            0, 0, 0, &proc, base, 0, 0, PRC$M_DETACH);" >  >	if (status != SS$_NORMAL)h >	{.2 >	   printf ( "SYS$CREPRC has returned abnormally + >                   status = %d\n",status);u >	   exit(status); >	}t >o >        return 0; >} >e@ >the log file was created and I got the following error message: >t+ >Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUTb@ >Error in device name or inappropriate device type for operation >oF >I suspect that I did not use the function SYS$GETDVI properly becauseD >it seems like SYS$CREPRC has trouble reading from the mailbox givenB >the device name. Can any one give me a hand? Thanks for the help. >yE >By the way, just in case anyone wants to know. here is the output of 
 >the program:k > 	 >$run sam 0 >The real device name of mailbox: _ALPHA2$MBA144 >$ >r >  >Sammy  D Works for me (well, I did change the "java -help" to something a bit$ more accessible like "SHOW SYSTEM").  D You might consider using the VMS debugger.  A wonderful tool.  Also,A the problem may not be the program but the fact that "java -help"L; does not want to run with its input being a mailbox device.a  F You might also want to include the #includes and the struct definitionE of _iosb so that other readers here might be able to compile and test$D your program without having to make all of the necessary amendments.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 11:19:49 -0800 From: spw@metricsys.com (spw) @ Subject: Help, need Latest/Correct ECU version - having problems= Message-ID: <943dd72a.0202211119.4a9ff425@posting.google.com>e  C We have a Compaq 4100 series running OpenVMS 6.2 1h3.  After it was E configured (ECU) with an ISA RS-232 serial card and a ISA synchronous @ RS-422 card, it sat unpowered for about 7-8 months.  When it wasE powered up again, it appeared to have lost its configuration and doesw? not recognize the card(s) (see all question marks in the bootupeD process that shows the ISA cards).  We have been trying to re-ECU itF again but haven't had any sucess and think we may not have the correctE ECU version (original systems guy left the company) for the 4100.  WebB currently have 1.11a, the sytems palcode version is 1.21-2 and the console version v5.6-4.t  C 1) Can anyone tell me the correct ECU version for this system & OS? 9 2) Can anyone tell me where I can get the latest version?s  . 3) Any other suggestions would be appreciated.   Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:36:37 +0100 / From: Frederik Meerwaldt <frederik@freddym.org>tD Subject: Re: Help, need Latest/Correct ECU version - having problems/ Message-ID: <a53i7h$dt9$00$1@news.t-online.com>    Hi!u  : > 2)Can anyone tell me where I can get the latest version?  G I don't know whether it's the latest version or not, but you find a ECUe- utility on my homepage http://www.freddym.orgt Section: Howtos -> AXP150e  # Tell me whether this worked or not.e
 Greetings, 	Freddyn   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:15:47 -0500v' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov>-3 Subject: Re: How to get rid of too many logfiles...2, Message-ID: <a53o24$ao8$1@sws1.ctd.ornl.gov>  L I believe the /new will cause problems.  The way the files are stored in theE save set are with the highest version stored first down to the lowestlE version stored last.  The /new tells backup to make the restored file K version one higher than the highest version number of that file, so you endEL up inverting the versions.  To try to explain better, if you have 3 versionsL of a file, when backup restores to an empty directory, it restores version 3H first as version 1, version 2 second as version 2, and version 1 last as
 version 3.  
 Dale A. Marcy-5 SAIC - Science Applications International Corporation0  7 "Vic Mendham" <vmendham@altavista.com> wrote in message:5 news:8b51ed8.0202200911.ba23bf3@posting.google.com...sD > Anyone see a problem with performing the Image. Init the disk thenF > restore without image? I don't want to do this, but the client seems > to think it's the way to go. >"A > backup/log/ignore=label/exclude=([*...]*.log;*,[*...]*.dat;*) -s. > /select=[*...]*.*;* tapedrivename:savsetname" > newdiskname:*.*;*/owner=orig/new   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:12:04 -0500_! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>l$ Subject: Re: HP 88780B and VS4000-90+ Message-ID: <a53vie$3s8$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   A The tape autoloads and then I set it to online.  I then issue the K MOUNT/FOREIGN and the tape rewinds and seeks and then stops, (same sequencetE as a standard mount which returns does return.  The CTRL-Y creates ansK interrupt but I never get control back, ( I waited five minutes then halted L to console.).  The tapes I have Block size from the label but no record size2 so maybe I just need to find the correct geometry.   Dave    + John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message,0 news:1020220201323.38059A-100000@Ives.egh.com...  > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, me wrote: >rI > > I have VS4000-90/VMS 7.2 with an HP 88780B.  I need to restore a ninea track,K > > tape written with a UVII / VMS5.4.  Under the CONSOLE and VMS the drivefL > > report as MKA300:, (SCSI 3 is set).  The Drive can be mounted but when iF > > BACKUP/VERIFY MKA300:FILENAME.BCK DKA600:[DIRECTORY] it asks to be mountedyK > > under /FOREIGN.  When I do this the machine just hangs, (No error code,g $,. > > $$$, or >>>) is ever returned.  Any ideas. > >r > > Dave > F > Backup needs its tapes mounted /foreign.  This is normal.  When doesE > it break?  When you "$ mount/for MKA300:" (optionally, /nowrite) ors& > when you execute the backup command? >mG > Maybe it is waiting for an operator to mount the tape (i.e. it thinks A > the wrong one is mounted and is waiting for someone to fix it.)O >UE > You can enable operator messages on your terminal (if you have OPERaC > priv) with reply/enable.  But it is probably better to make mountcC > and backup ask you directly if it thinks something is wrong... douA > this by including "/noassist" on the mount and backup commands.  >   >   $ mount/for/noassist mka300:G >   $ backup/log/verify/noassist mka300:filename.bck dka600:[directory]C >iE > (/log may be too noisy, but at least you can see what it is doing.)o > G > When the process hangs, can you get back to DCL with ctrl/Y?  If not, B > then it is likely the tape drive is wedged.  (Hardware or configB > problem, or the tape is in very bad shape and the drive has gone@ > crazy.)  Most programs can usually be interrupted with ctrl/Y.B > However, a device mount can't be.  You just have to wait for the4 > hardware to time out, which might be many minutes. >  > --
 > John Santosh > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 >s   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2002 20:54:26 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 0 Message-ID: <a53mq2$6p2$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3C754427.43696BF2@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  >Nick Maclaren wrote:t > D >> But, to forestall Alexis Cousein, the CURRENT committment to MIPSC >> is pretty solid.  There was a (say) 18 month glitch, but that isrC >> long past and the MIPS line is slowly but steadily making up theq >> lost ground.  >rH >Does this mean that Tandem could remain on MIPS if it were allowed to ?   Yes.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:39:53 +0100:' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>  Subject: Re: Itanium troubles ( Message-ID: <3C757739.582F3BEF@spam.net>   John Smith wrote:2 > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C742550.2B04EB12@videotron.ca... > > J > >....at which point, either IA64 will work respectably, VMS will be deadG > anyways, or some other target will have been selected for a VMS port." > >" > >t > N > Now if I were Microsoft, I might be thinking that I have the most to lose in > an Itanic/McKinley fiasco. >  > Why? > > > Because if I was busy pushing Windows 2004/2005/2006 Server/M > DataCenter/Enterprise and my customers didn't have a decent platform to runuH > it on, then I'd be at risk of losing them to unix on Power, to unix on' > Solaris, to linux on almost anything.   F What do you about rephrasing your statement to "I'd be at risk not to D win them as new customers". At present Micro$hit isn't in the glass @ houses yet, at least not for the mission critical applications. < They're mainly run on mainframes (yes, still), UNIX and VMS.  D I fully agree with the idea that a decent HW platform is needed for @ conquering the data centers. I'm even not sure whether the most ? powerful Untel systems are that well designed to bet a mission i> critical business upon them. We know all about the SUN fiasko = with the E10k cache problem. I'm not familiar with HW design m= but from what I read there is still some uncertainty whether a8 a HW design meets its goals and wheather a system board 8 works reliable. I personally observed strange behaviour 9 of expensive Compaq Untel based server systems. It could e> never be sorted out whether the BIOS version, driver versions 9 or even the SW layers higher up were responsible for the e	 problems.P  A So far I only see IBM delivering systems with the needed quality.n  / > And that is clearly unpalatable to Mr. Gates.rM > Maybe Microsoft will do a deal with Compaq to revive Alpha. It might be thesF > cheapest way for Microsoft to ensure the growth of its higher priced > products.c  ? I'm not sure whether dealing with Compaq is enough. AFAIK most 2< of the outstanding engineers are now working for Untel. And B there is really another problem. Micro$hit will run into problems A if they officially invest in pure HW that runs their OSs. I read  B several years ago that an USamerican agency will stop M$ in doing ) so. The Xbox is a different thing though.e   -- l6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 00:11:54 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)* Subject: Re: Itanium troublesg' Message-ID: <a542ca$1pn$1@joe.rice.edu>   ( Brass Christof (welcome@spam.net) wrote:H : What do you about rephrasing your statement to "I'd be at risk not to F : win them as new customers". At present Micro$hit isn't in the glass B : houses yet, at least not for the mission critical applications.  : # Is this mission-critical enough ? :n  0    http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html    Navy carrier to run Win 2000   J Here's earlier stories on the U.S. Navy's "smart ship" program's problems:  8    http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.html1    Scientific American: Technology and Business: }     Rough Sailing For Smart Ships  7    http://www.gcn.com/archives/gcn/1998/july13/cov2.htmw<    Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water  D This is the only U.S. Navy site found from a search of www.navy.mil  for "smart ship":"  @    http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/allhands/ah0997/pg20.html!    All Hands, Sep 97 - Smart Shipt  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:35:46 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles"9 Message-ID: <mvfd8.7544$ro5.3286147@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messagea* news:a53mq2$6p2$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk.... > In article <3C754427.43696BF2@videotron.ca>,1 > JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:f > >Nick Maclaren wrote:e > >!F > >> But, to forestall Alexis Cousein, the CURRENT committment to MIPSE > >> is pretty solid.  There was a (say) 18 month glitch, but that isuE > >> long past and the MIPS line is slowly but steadily making up thee > >> lost ground.  > > J > >Does this mean that Tandem could remain on MIPS if it were allowed to ? >l > Yes.  H Yes, of course. There's a MIPs refresh coming out in May, and another inI about 18-24 months. Separately, the revived IPF port is just about a done: deal.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:51:39 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles 9 Message-ID: <vCgd8.7573$ro5.3342176@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>N  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:a542ca$1pn$1@joe.rice.edu...d* > Brass Christof (welcome@spam.net) wrote:I > : What do you about rephrasing your statement to "I'd be at risk not torG > : win them as new customers". At present Micro$hit isn't in the glass C > : houses yet, at least not for the mission critical applications.d > :t% > Is this mission-critical enough ? :e >s2 >    http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html! >    Navy carrier to run Win 2000m >C  L Bill Clinton's Strategic Partners the ChiComs have to be laffing their arsesH off at this. CVN77 is the last of the Nimitz Class. One might surmise it* won't remain afloat for very long, either?   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 01:07:12 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles % Message-ID: <a545k0$obc@web.nmti.com>S  = In article <QlBc8.6775$Uy2.29086@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, . Andrew Reilly  <areilly@bigpond.net.au> wrote:F > As opposed to what, exactly?  The triumphant return of SGI/MIPS as aF > server processor vendor on the open market?  The wholesale uptake ofB > SPARC?  The resurrection of Alpha around a new development team?3 > Meteoric success of Hammer in enterprise servers?b  E The continued use of IA32 for Wintel servers, and Sparc and Power forYH UNIX servers. Any 64 bit Wintel needs can be served by Hammer or Intel'sF own 64-bit IA32 extensions. Intel doesn't *need* Itanic, and certainly nobody else does.X   -- r+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.iE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."fL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 01:32:17 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) Subject: Re: Itanium troubles % Message-ID: <a54731$q3e@web.nmti.com>   , In article <3C740793.1E8D10E7@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: N > Only 4 years ?. Besides, how many yeasr was EV6 delayed ? How many years was > EV7 delayed for Alpha ?s  L EV6 or EV7 being delayed meant that Alpha users had to put up with a smallerG perfomance margin over every other processor architecture than they had	L hoped. Itanic being delayed means would-be IA64 users having, well, nothing.  A I mean, Microsoft had to develop 64 bit NT for IA64 on the Alpha.l  + > How many years was windows "95 delayed ? a  I Not long enough, alas. Better question is, how long was NT delayed. If itnJ had shipped in time Windows would have been tracking NT, not the other way around.r   --  +  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva. E   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."0L                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:58:19 -0500m# From: Paul DeMone <pdemone@igs.net>V Subject: Re: Itanium troublesl' Message-ID: <3C75A5BB.A76E9DD4@igs.net>/   Nick Maclaren wrote: > L > In article <Pine.SGI.4.44.0202211007410.210522-100000@wendigo.bio.dfo.ca>,6 > "George N. White III" <WhiteG@dfo-mpo.gc.ca> writes: > |>O > |> Certainly SGI and MIPS have not made the advances that one would expect if%E > |> MIPS development efforts had not waivered. If SGI had a stronger_N > |> commitment to MIPS would we now have machines similar to POWER4 from SGI? > C > Unlikely.  SGI are taking a different path.  However, my guess iseD > that we would now have 1 GHz MIPS chips in the Origin 3000 series,$ > and they might well be quad issue.  B The MIPS R1x000 series ARE quad issue now (actually four fetch and five issue).   --D Paul W. DeMone       The 801 experiment SPARCed an ARMs race of EPICE Kanata, Ontario      proportions to put more PRECISION and POWER intonG demone@mosaid.com    architectures with MIPSed results but ALPHA's welll$ pdemone@igs.net      that ends well.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 05:46:39 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)c Subject: Re: Itanium troubles ' Message-ID: <a54lvv$j4p$1@joe.rice.edu>n  3 Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@mediaone.net) wrote:fN : Bill Clinton's Strategic Partners the ChiComs have to be laffing their arsesJ : off at this. CVN77 is the last of the Nimitz Class. One might surmise it, : won't remain afloat for very long, either?  J Perhaps CVN77 is really designed as a submarine that can launch aircraft, J like the WW II Japanaese I-300 class submarines that carried two seaplanes in a water-tight compartment.a     --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:10:54 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>9 Subject: Re: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows"o0 Message-ID: <3C754524.359981D9@blueyonder.co.uk>   William_Bochnik@acml.com wrote:m > = > I doubt that you could buy cooking oil in the US for 0.42 at: > litre, but I may be wrong.  Economy of scale might help. >   ] the program I saw implied that used cooking oil was something the catering industry was happy  to have taken off its hands.   -- y Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  -  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of e! my employers or service provider.n   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2002 21:13:23 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)h9 Subject: Re: OT gassless cars Was Re: "Crashless Windows" , Message-ID: <a53ntj$2u7t$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ( In article <3C750D04.73AED05@Omond.net>,"  Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net> writes: |>> |>         (fish-and-chips is the staple diet of quite a large' |> number in this impoverished land :-)a  K Impoverished!!  I would kill for a decent fish and chips shop around here!!.   bill   -- tJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 00:34:30 GMT5 From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess)eF Subject: Re: Poor Performance with OpenVMS Advanced Server and TCPWare. Message-ID: <a543mm$32h$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  (  Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >r8 >On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:26:34 -0500, "McCarthy Kevin P." ><McCarthyKP@BWSC.ORG> wrote:i >-I >>We are on the verge of moving all of our Pathworks shares to NT/Win2000 J >>servers because of this.  We are running Pathworks 6.1 and TCPware on anH >>ES40 833 MHz with HSG 80s and Gig Ethernet, but for serving data filesG >>to AutoCAD 2002 a 866 MHz Win NT server is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude > >>faster.  A single user with winzip made our PW server crawl. >-F >With  UCX SET PROT TCP/NODELAY_ACK I see uploads to Pathworks serversD >go from 300KB/sec to around 3MBsec. Unfortunately, as you say, thisF >workaround does not seem to be available for TCPWARE. But for extremeG >slow read performance you want to stick the Pathworks cache way up (ifsA >you have not already done so) The default is ludicrously low. IneF >ADMIN/CONFIG (was this still run by a .COM file in 6.1?) I have  DataC >Cache Size (Kbytes): 65536. I get about 5MB/sec on read with this.  >E >--i >Alang  I Pathworks performance has always been a concern and the major applicationwH is going to another platform because of it.  (Data cache size is 65536.)  F An improvement even for the final few months would be worthwhile, so I& tried setting no delay on acknowledge.  * But I seem to be missing something here...    From SYSTEM with all privileges,    $ tcpip show versione  B    DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A - ECO 19    on a AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB running OpenVMS V7.2-1h%  $ tcpip show protocol tcp /parameter   TCP"    Delay ACK:              enabled    ...  $ tcpip set proto tcp /NODelayl&  $ tcpip show protocol tcp /parameter   TCP"    Delay ACK:              enabled    ...  < Restart UCX (TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS) or even reboot and. "show protocol" still shows Delay ACK enabled.  & The Help says that command is correct.  H Ian Burgess  University of Queensland I.Burgess[at]its.uq.edu.au www.its.uq.edu.aua   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:18:29 GMT ) From: Carl Bennett <vze35kfz@verizon.net>e  Subject: Re: print on OCE copier* Message-ID: <3C750180.4030607@verizon.net>  I I once made a KONICA with a fiery controller print... need to know if it lA supports LPD...   are you using LAT or IP, and if IP, what stack?      Serge ZANGHERI wrote:j   > Hi,t; > is it possible to print from vax-vms to copier OCE 3155 ?g > thanxo > Serges >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 11:14:12 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202211114.791c56b6@posting.google.com>   f young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<ths3A0j3uaPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>...i > In article <d7791aa1.0202210537.9668487@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:i > > K > > the military and government will have a big say in this as vms is their L > > only secure os used throughout ... jstars to name another, and they willL > > not be moving to "no security" windoze or linux or unix anytime soon ... >  > @ > 	Actually... No Such Agency has a hardened Linux as a desktop. > 5 > http://slashdot.org/articles/00/12/22/0157229.shtmlk > . > NSA Releases High Security Version Of Linux  > I > We had an extremely interesting submission from Ted T'so,, Linux kernel N > developer, who also has an obvious interest in security, given his work withQ > Kerberos[?]. He wrote in concerning the release by the NSA (Yes, that NSA) of abD > high security version of Linux. I've included his comments below.  > K > tytso writes: "I recently attended a DARPA workshop which focused on highdM > security open source operating systems. It turns out that parts of the U.S. N > government are really interested this topic; having an operating system withQ > the necessary high-security features which they need, and for which source code N > is available, would be a really good thing for them. Among other things, forM > example, it would mean that they wouldn't have to live in terror about whataK > might happen if Sun, IBM, SGI, et. al decided to pull the plug on TrustedeP > Solaris, Trusted AIX, or Trusted IRIX. And they're serious enough that DARPA's( > willing to throw money at the problem. > N > While I was at this workshop, I met some folks from the NSA and they told meB > about a really neat project that they've been working on, calledO > Security-enhanced Linux. One of the cool things about it is that it separateszO > enforcement and policy. So selinux can easily support many different securitylD > policies, from the old (some would say outdated/silly) Multi-LevelN > Secure/Bell-LaPadula model, to Domain-Type enforcement and Rule-Based AccessK > Control models. So if you think that high-security features means the old Q > silly, Secret / Top Secret / CMW bullshit, and needing to make sure that SecretkP > windows don't get expose events from Top Secret windows, think again. A numberK > of folks have found Domain Type Enforcement and Rule-Based Access Control L > systems very useful for securing Web servers and other real world systems. > Q > The NSA folks just recently got permission to make their stuff available on theIO > Web. It's just a proof of concept, and no doubt a lot of changes will need to N > made before people will accept integrating it into the kernel, but they haveO > released a working system (both kernel and userspace patches --- RPM's aren'tsP > quite ready yet) based on Linux 2.2 and RedHat 6.1. So it's definitely worth aP > look, and in fact some folks with specialized needs might find it useful, even > though it's a prototype. > 	 > 				Robi  C anyone who would base their security on open code over vms would bed? nuts ... if a hacker found a door and noone else knew about theeD door, then look out later!  That is the problem now w/unix linux ...5 if hackers have access to your source code, look out!,   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 14:04:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)a2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS3 Message-ID: <Eid+p$O2$rvA@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  h In article <d7791aa1.0202211114.791c56b6@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:h > young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<ths3A0j3uaPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>...j >> In article <d7791aa1.0202210537.9668487@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >> > oL >> > the military and government will have a big say in this as vms is theirM >> > only secure os used throughout ... jstars to name another, and they willgM >> > not be moving to "no security" windoze or linux or unix anytime soon ...s >>   >> gA >> 	Actually... No Such Agency has a hardened Linux as a desktop.u >>  6 >> http://slashdot.org/articles/00/12/22/0157229.shtml >>  / >> NSA Releases High Security Version Of Linux e >> tJ >> We had an extremely interesting submission from Ted T'so,, Linux kernelO >> developer, who also has an obvious interest in security, given his work with R >> Kerberos[?]. He wrote in concerning the release by the NSA (Yes, that NSA) of aE >> high security version of Linux. I've included his comments below. o >> eL >> tytso writes: "I recently attended a DARPA workshop which focused on highN >> security open source operating systems. It turns out that parts of the U.S.O >> government are really interested this topic; having an operating system withsR >> the necessary high-security features which they need, and for which source codeO >> is available, would be a really good thing for them. Among other things, foreN >> example, it would mean that they wouldn't have to live in terror about whatL >> might happen if Sun, IBM, SGI, et. al decided to pull the plug on TrustedQ >> Solaris, Trusted AIX, or Trusted IRIX. And they're serious enough that DARPA'st) >> willing to throw money at the problem.u >> tO >> While I was at this workshop, I met some folks from the NSA and they told mehC >> about a really neat project that they've been working on, callediP >> Security-enhanced Linux. One of the cool things about it is that it separatesP >> enforcement and policy. So selinux can easily support many different securityE >> policies, from the old (some would say outdated/silly) Multi-LeveltO >> Secure/Bell-LaPadula model, to Domain-Type enforcement and Rule-Based AccessoL >> Control models. So if you think that high-security features means the oldR >> silly, Secret / Top Secret / CMW bullshit, and needing to make sure that SecretQ >> windows don't get expose events from Top Secret windows, think again. A numberiL >> of folks have found Domain Type Enforcement and Rule-Based Access ControlM >> systems very useful for securing Web servers and other real world systems.i >> rR >> The NSA folks just recently got permission to make their stuff available on theP >> Web. It's just a proof of concept, and no doubt a lot of changes will need toO >> made before people will accept integrating it into the kernel, but they have P >> released a working system (both kernel and userspace patches --- RPM's aren'tQ >> quite ready yet) based on Linux 2.2 and RedHat 6.1. So it's definitely worth aaQ >> look, and in fact some folks with specialized needs might find it useful, evenA >> though it's a prototype.m >> e
 >> 				Rob > E > anyone who would base their security on open code over vms would be>A > nuts ... if a hacker found a door and noone else knew about the F > door, then look out later!  That is the problem now w/unix linux ...7 > if hackers have access to your source code, look out!e  $ 	You bring up an intersting point...  1 	Poor design and testing will get you eventually!h  B 	But to think/suggest the folks at No Such Agency can't make Linux? 	airtight is naive.  And before you get excited, NSA intends toy 	get their Linux rated B3.   				Rob>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:32:12 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMSC Message-ID: <gPcd8.140931$Aw2.10018876@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in messagek7 news:d7791aa1.0202211114.791c56b6@posting.google.com...o   ...n  E > anyone who would base their security on open code over vms would bepA > nuts ... if a hacker found a door and noone else knew about the F > door, then look out later!  That is the problem now w/unix linux ...7 > if hackers have access to your source code, look out!h  F Er - any hacker with even a small amount of money to spend *does* haveH access to almost all of the VMS source code.  And that cost would hardlyF discourage any foreign-sponsored individual specifically interested in' penetrating the military's VMS systems.)   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:36:09 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)d2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS3 Message-ID: <2medsNC09dji@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <ths3A0j3uaPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:P7 > So selinux can easily support many different securitytD > policies, from the old (some would say outdated/silly) Multi-LevelN > Secure/Bell-LaPadula model, to Domain-Type enforcement and Rule-Based Access > Control models.   H    Yes, but will it actively record and evade an attack without creatingG    a denial of service?  Of all the systems I've seen, VMS is the only  E    one to get this right.  If you can't get the basics right, I don'tb-    care how fancy you get once I'm logged in.    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2002 21:21:36 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS, Message-ID: <a53od0$2u7t$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  = In article <d7791aa1.0202211114.791c56b6@posting.google.com>,e+  bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  |>F |> anyone who would base their security on open code over vms would beB |> nuts ... if a hacker found a door and noone else knew about theG |> door, then look out later!  That is the problem now w/unix linux ...a8 |> if hackers have access to your source code, look out!  G Security by obscurity has never been a good thing and has never worked.sF VMS source is available, too.  And the source to anything is available to anyone for the right price.   bill   -- sJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:47:51 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS3 Message-ID: <FZegSFgNPcZm@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  
 Path: koehler:- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Newsgroups: comp.os.vmst2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS3 Message-ID: <OyJkqbQc$IBm@eisner.encompasserve.org>4  Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:45:55 -0600References: <d0a53e6e.0202191843.53f77e91@posting.google.com> <d7791aa1.0202200557.14ceae66@posting.google.com> <3C73EDA3.840B56CE@videotron.ca> <It5fZCsxpyHf@eisner.encompasserve.org> <3C7449AB.1060502@tsoft-inc.com> <3C745CA4.74E03540@videotron.ca> <a53bkc$2o3j$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>s Organization: Encompasserve   ` In article <a53bkc$2o3j$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > H > The only architecture I know of that I think only had one OS availableI > was MIPS and I think there were rumors of work on VMS as well as Ultrixe= > having been done for it before it was ababndoned wholesale.   I    MIPS runs (or used to) IRIX, Ultrix, WNT, probably others (Himalaya?).a>    An OSF/1 (aka DU, aka T64) port was promised, then dropped.  C    MIPS would not be a good candidate for VMS since it only has two-C    modes, while comprable Intel architectures have has had 4 for a l
    long time.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:54:37 GMT$L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS8 Message-ID: <00A09E67.C3E9212B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  = In article <d7791aa1.0202211114.791c56b6@posting.google.com>,o* bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:   >eD >anyone who would base their security on open code over vms would be@ >nuts ... if a hacker found a door and noone else knew about theE >door, then look out later!  That is the problem now w/unix linux ...-6 >if hackers have access to your source code, look out!  J I'm not sure this follows.  Don't we get more exploits on 'closed source' + Windows than on 'open source' xBSD/Linux?  .  K The idea with Open Source is that everybody can look at it and if they findhK bugs or holes, let the developers (and the world) know, and get them fixed.nH The developers, knowing that they can't away with crappy coding (becauseO everybody will see it), tend to put in the time to write code they can be proudtL of. (Of course, the original developers may not be any good.  But anyone canL look and see that the code is crap.  If the product is useful, somebody goodN can patch, redesign, or replace the code. [This has happened, for example, for@ the buggy, insecure, PERL code from Matt's Script Archive.])  InN source-unavailable situations, you have to take the vendor's word that there'sO good stuff in there.  And if there are things that'll break if you poke at them:C the right way - buffer overflows being the classic for this kind of N vulnerability - and it's a popular platform, hackers will keep poking and findO them, then generate kits so that stupid script kiddies can do it (or just write " viruses that'll do it themselves.)  N In other words, you're promoting security through obscurity, and it's not good itself by itself.c   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056fM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210yO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:09:33 +0000 (UTC)e From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS+ Message-ID: <a53und$cau$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  h In article <d7791aa1.0202211114.791c56b6@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:g >young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote in message news:<ths3A0j3uaPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>...Wj >> In article <d7791aa1.0202210537.9668487@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes: >> > r >dD >anyone who would base their security on open code over vms would be@ >nuts ... if a hacker found a door and noone else knew about theE >door, then look out later!  That is the problem now w/unix linux ...d6 >if hackers have access to your source code, look out!  G The idea is that anything one hacker could find all the others looking  + at the open source could also find and fix.w# Security by obscurity doesn't work.oI VMS doesn't rely on security by obscurity - anyone who wants to pay a fewi6 hundred dollars can get the VMS source listings on CD.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Feb 2002 00:49:29 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)E2 Subject: Re: Profitability and the survival of VMS3 Message-ID: <q2G2Gjz7fsUa@eisner.encompasserve.org>V  c In article <2medsNC09dji@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:ac > In article <ths3A0j3uaPp@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:p8 >> So selinux can easily support many different securityE >> policies, from the old (some would say outdated/silly) Multi-LeveleO >> Secure/Bell-LaPadula model, to Domain-Type enforcement and Rule-Based Accessh >> Control models. . > J >    Yes, but will it actively record and evade an attack without creatingI >    a denial of service?  Of all the systems I've seen, VMS is the only :G >    one to get this right.  If you can't get the basics right, I don'tt/ >    care how fancy you get once I'm logged in.i >    	How about this....O  5 http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/epl/epl-by-class.htmll   	Here is the list of C2 OSes:    Operating Systems 1 Data General Corporation AOS/VS II, Release 3.01  1 Data General Corporation AOS/VS II, Release 3.10 E6 Digital Equipment Corporation OpenVMS VAX Version 6.0 6 Digital Equipment Corporation OpenVMS VAX Version 6.1 @ Digital Equipment Corporation OpenVMS VAX and Alpha Version 6.1 @ Computer Associates International, Inc. CA-ACF2 MVS Release 6.1  IBM AS/400 with OS/400 V2R3M0  IBM AS/400 with OS/400 V3R0M5 5 IBM AS/400 V3R2 Feature Code 1920 Version 2 Hardware o5 IBM AS/400 with OS/400 V4R1M0 with Feature Code 1920 n5 IBM AS/400 with OS/400 V4R4M0 with Feature Code 1920 s IBM RS/6000 Distributed System v. Microsoft Corporation Windows NT, Version 3.5 P Microsoft Corporation Windows NT Workstation and Windows NT Server, Version 4.0 5 Tandem Computers Inc. Guardian-90 w/Safeguard S00.01 r   	Here is the list of B1:   Operating Systems + Amdahl Corporation UTS/MLS, Version 2.1.5+ .L Computer Associates International, Inc. CA-ACF2 MVS Release 6.1 with CA-ACF2 MAC 4 Digital Equipment Corporation SEVMS VAX Version 6.0 4 Digital Equipment Corporation SEVMS VAX Version 6.1 > Digital Equipment Corporation SEVMS VAX and Alpha Version 6.1 J Digital Equipment Corporation ULTRIX MLS+ Version 2.1 on VAX Station 3100 0 Harris Computer Systems Corporation CX/SX 6.1.1 0 Harris Computer Systems Corporation CX/SX 6.2.1 3 Hewlett Packard Corporation HP-UX BLS release 8.04  5 Hewlett Packard Corporation HP-UX BLS release 9.0.9+ g6 Silicon Graphics Inc. Trusted IRIX/B release 4.0.5EPL . Unisys Corporation OS 1100 Security Release I . Unisys Corporation OS 1100/2200 Release SB3R6 . Unisys Corporation OS 1100/2200 Release SB3R8 . Unisys Corporation OS 1100/2200 Release SB4R2 . Unisys Corporation OS 1100/2200 Release SB4R7      	Here is the list of B2:   Operating Systemse  4 Trusted Information Systems, Inc. Trusted XENIX 3.0 4 Trusted Information Systems, Inc. Trusted XENIX 4.0    	Here is the list of B3:   Operating Systemso  2 Wang Government Services, Inc. XTS-200 STOP 3.1.E 2 Wang Government Services, Inc. XTS-200 STOP 3.2.E 0 Wang Government Services, Inc. XTS-300 STOP 4.1 1 Wang Government Services, Inc. XTS-300 STOP 4.1a n2 Wang Government Services, Inc. XTS-300 STOP 4.4.2 2 Wang Government Services, Inc. XTS-300 STOP 5.2.E    	A short overview:   Rating Code Rating Name  A1 Verified Design   B3 Security Domains  B2 Structured Protection i B1 Labeled Security Protection aD C2 Controlled Access Protection (Windows NT 3.5 earned this rating)     J The class (B3) TCB must satisfy the reference monitor requirements that itI mediate all accesses of subjects to objects, be tamperproof, and be small E enough to be subjected to analysis and tests. To this end, the TCB is M structured to exclude code not essential to security policy enforcement, withoL significant system engineering during TCB design and implementation directedN toward minimizing its complexity. A security administrator is supported, auditG mechanisms are expanded to signal security- relevant events, and systemfC recovery procedures are required. The system is highly resistant toi
 penetration. e  : 	It is very difficult to obtain B3, no OS is classifed A1.   				Robp   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:22:41 +01006' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>n! Subject: Screen Saver Problem (?)e( Message-ID: <3C757331.9EFD5E8F@spam.net>  : I'm not sure whether the problem is really to be called a $ screen save problem, but here it is:  F My two headed DECwindow server configuration turns both screens black G after some time of keyboard and mouse inactivity. Normally it suffices fF to press any key (although I don't have a cap with "ANYKEY" on it) or D to move the mouse to wake up the display server. But sometimes this A doesn't work. I can move the mouse or press different buttons or i? even combinations like alt-tab without any effect. Sometimes I  A have to shut down the machine logging in from remote sometimes I @* can finally wake it up five minutes later.  	 Any idea?s   -- r6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2002 22:52:20 GMT- From: "Jim Strehlow" <jimSnoSpam@data911.com>c% Subject: Re: Screen Saver Problem (?)r0 Message-ID: <a53tn4$j6o@dispatch.concentric.net>  9 I have survived various fixable problems with DECwindows. 8 Solutions ranged from changing a setting on the graphics adapter board inside the box toa4 loading OpenVMS patches for the proper graphics card for the version of OpenVMS.s  6 You should mention what type of graphics card, version, of OpenVMS, and maybe a PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY* to see what patches are already installed.  1 Jim Strehlow, Data911.com OpenVMS Systems Manageri Alameda, CA, USA  4 "Brass Christof" <welcome@spam.net> wrote in message" news:3C757331.9EFD5E8F@spam.net...  G > My two headed DECwindow server configuration turns both screens black H > after some time of keyboard and mouse inactivity. Normally it sufficesG > to press any key (although I don't have a cap with "ANYKEY" on it) or E > to move the mouse to wake up the display server. But sometimes thishB > doesn't work. I can move the mouse or press different buttons or@ > even combinations like alt-tab without any effect. Sometimes IB > have to shut down the machine logging in from remote sometimes I, > can finally wake it up five minutes later. >o > Any idea?e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:59:52 GMTm* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Shannon on the mergerC Message-ID: <sChd8.144851$Aw2.10337398@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>a  E Terry has now weighed in at openvms.org and tru64.org in favor of thewH merger, listing the same tired arguments the principals have trotted outF repeatedly and unconvincingly for 5 months now.  Why he is so securely- ensconced in Compaq's pocket remains unknown.o  K From Compaq's viewpoint, proceding with the merger probably *is* preferablepI to continuing on its current course with the same morons at the helm, butdH from HP's viewpoint the merger makes no sense whatsoever.  What would beJ best for both companies would be to scrap the merger, scrap the managementI geniuses who thought it up, and get on with their potentially recoverablelJ and profitable businesses, but that obviously won't happen without outsideK influence - and since their boards seem intent on following their CEOs downmA the path to oblivion, the most likely such outside influence is a E stockholder vote-down of the merger, after which the rest will become>	 possible.l   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 15:08:20 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)U Subject: Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans (l= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0202211508.59f9628d@posting.google.com>   d "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message news:<CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAECCEDAA.tom@kednos.com>... > > -----Original Message-----9 > > From: Alan E. Feldman [mailto:SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM],- > > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 8:26 AM	 > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.CombB > > Subject: Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus > > experienced veterans ( > >e > > = > > "Ken Hagan" <K.Hagan@thermoteknix.co.uk> wrote in messageoB > > news:<1014285398.11194.0.nnrp-12.3e31ffea@news.demon.co.uk>...< > > > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote... > > > >sK > > > > Maybe i shouldn't have slept through all those english classes, butAJ > > > > I read the above as "everyone" being plural, not singular and THEYH > > > > as agreeing with it.  Surely 'every" implies more than just one. > > > >- > > > > bill4 > > > > (Who doesn't claim to be an english expert.) > > >r > > > Everyone is singular.i > > > Everyone are not plural. > > >gJ > > > But, yes, you've hit on the psychological reason why so many EnglishH > > > speakers don't mind getting it "wrong", and since we (whoever "we"J > > > might be) don't have an Academie, the nearest we'll get to "correct"! > > > English is what people use.  > > >.L > > > There are many English speakers who have "resolved" the s/h/it problemL > > > by simply declaring that "they" is an acceptable third person singularK > > > pronoun, and takes the plural form of its verb even when used in thato > > > context. > > > J > > > For such people, it is the use of "he" in this situation which jars,@ > > > since it is (to their ears) clearly exclusively masculine. > > >nJ > > > Similarly, you are either singular or plural, but thou art singular. > M > Of course, when thou prevailed you was the plural form, but then the dativebN > forms of these pronouns, thee and ye have also disappeared.  When addressingN > someone in the polite form a number of languages use the third person plural@ > "Have they eaten?"  Swedish uses 2nd person plural (as French)5 > and sometimes third person singular "Has he eaten?"o > H > But in italian everyone is She when addressed in the polite form, Lei!N > But the discussion was about an acceptable form of the third person singuar.E > which in germanic languages (to which english belongs) can be "one"u > >a > > Come on, would you say > > ( > >     Everyone took his coat with him. > >  > > or would you say > > , > >     Everyone took their coats with them. > >oH > > See the Usage Note for everyone in the American Heritage Dictionary.   So then you would say6  &     Everyone took one's coat with one.   ??? Hmmmmm.   D It's very simple. Everyone is singular except when it's plural! JustD like the i before e rule: It's i before e, except when it's e before i!!!   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman(& afeldman ;a;a;a;a gfigroup a;a;a;a com > >l   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 14:33:59 -1000/ From: Jim Thomas <thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>eU Subject: Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans (r2 Message-ID: <wwn0y2mk20.fsf@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>  ? >>>>> "Alan" == Alan E Feldman <SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM> writes:s    Alan> "Ken Hagan" <K.Hagan@thermoteknix.co.uk> wrote in message news:<1014285398.11194.0.nnrp-12.3e31ffea@news.demon.co.uk>...h:  >> "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote...  >> >iI  >> > Maybe i shouldn't have slept through all those english classes, butiH  >> > I read the above as "everyone" being plural, not singular and THEYF  >> > as agreeing with it.  Surely 'every" implies more than just one.  >> >6
  >> > bill2  >> > (Who doesn't claim to be an english expert.)  >>   >> Everyone is singular.f  >> Everyone are not plural.  >> H  >> But, yes, you've hit on the psychological reason why so many EnglishF  >> speakers don't mind getting it "wrong", and since we (whoever "we"H  >> might be) don't have an Academie, the nearest we'll get to "correct"  >> English is what people use.0  >> J  >> There are many English speakers who have "resolved" the s/h/it problemJ  >> by simply declaring that "they" is an acceptable third person singularI  >> pronoun, and takes the plural form of its verb even when used in that0  >> context.  >> H  >> For such people, it is the use of "he" in this situation which jars,>  >> since it is (to their ears) clearly exclusively masculine.  >> H  >> Similarly, you are either singular or plural, but thou art singular.    Alan> Come on, would you sayS  +  Alan>     Everyone took his coat with him.s       Alan> or would you say   0  Alan>     Everyone took their coats with them.   K IMHO those are not equivalent.  Per the description above, my usage has theAF plural verb form only.  "coat" implies one.  "coats" implies more thanH one.  So the first sentence says to me that all the people involved wereJ male and each had one coat.  The second sentence could involve some femaleB people too, and at least one of the people had more than one coat.  	 FWLIW :-)o JimL   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 05:15:46 GMT( From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach)Y Subject: Re: Singular they was Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was19 Message-ID: <3c75d402$0$79564$3c090ad1@news.plethora.net>C  ) In article <3C72ACD0.1CDB6F93@cisco.com>,e' J Ahlstrom  <jahlstro@cisco.com> wrote:lB >>I was therefore DELIGHTED a few years back to read a fascinatingO >>article (the citation, alas, escapes me)  that listed examples  of the use ofaN >>"they" and "their" as third person singular in Thackeray, Dickens, Carlisle,E >>Shakespeare, and Shaw--and several other luminaries I've forgotten.oD >>Since then, I've kept an eye out, and most recently discovered theK >>singular "they"  in C. S. Lewis' *The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe*.rC >>That example was along the lines of "everyone had what THEY liked'H >>best to eat."  If it's good enough for CSL--no mean stylist--it's good >>enough for me.  / "everyone" is a fairly widespread special case.n   -s -- rK    Copyright 2002, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.netIK    $ chmod a+x /bin/laden      Please do not feed or harbor the terrorists.oJ      C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter.  Boycott Spamazon!N Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/   ------------------------------   Date: 21 FEB 2002 18:51:03 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?6 Message-ID: <21FEB02.18510373@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  E In a previous article, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:s  I ->I don't know if this is an Easter Egg or something real, but I stumbledrE ->across this a few months back and I started wondering who Katie is.e ->  , ->$ write sys$output "''f$mess(%X13f30074)'"- ->%KATIE-F-DEVNOTMBX, device is not a mailbox=   Kathleen Morse?         7 From my memory of reading the source listings eons ago.l   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison 2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 14:32:14 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?3 Message-ID: <+rol57uFTcHM@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  X In article <hrOc8.293$YS1.6711@news.cpqcorp.net>, "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> writes:   > mc sysgen sh timeprompwait* > show a great unit : the microfortnight !  !    Goes back to VMS 1.x on VAXen.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:01:08 -0500r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?, Message-ID: <3C756007.54987BD9@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote: > > mc sysgen sh timeprompwait, > > show a great unit : the microfortnight ! > # >    Goes back to VMS 1.x on VAXen.w    * I seem to be living on a different planet.   for me, the above does:   # SYSGEN-E-NOPARAM, no such parameteru  H (and for the real parameter, it just professionally displays the value).     VAX-VMS 7.2b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:17:52 +0000w+ From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>e@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?& Message-ID: <3C757210.5050203@iee.org>   Paul Repacholi wrote:-  5 > Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:o> >>I seem to remember from the early days when DECNET was beingD >>developed there was a status message for an "impossible" conditionF >>(as the story goes) that Ken Olsen got when demonstrating DECNET for5 >>the press or some other dignitaries.  The message??a > # > IE.NFW -69 Path Lost to Partner. o    # That one made it as far as a manual   ! (I came across it recently in oner of the RSX ones).l    FUBAR made it too (Failed Unibus   Address Register).   AntonioS     -- l   --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------   Date: 21 FEB 2002 21:36:49 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?6 Message-ID: <21FEB02.21364921@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  E In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:t   ->Bob Koehler wrote:  ->> > mc sysgen sh timeprompwait. ->> > show a great unit : the microfortnight ! ->> % ->>    Goes back to VMS 1.x on VAXen.A ->   -> e, ->I seem to be living on a different planet. -> e ->for me, the above does:m -> o% ->SYSGEN-E-NOPARAM, no such parameteri -> qJ ->(and for the real parameter, it just professionally displays the value). -> M
 ->VAX-VMS 7.2   / On 7.2-1 at least you get a meaningful message:c   $ mc sysgen sh timeprompwait$ %SYSGEN-E-NOPARAM, no such parameter  F Device related commands are no longer supported by the SYSGEN utility.  : Use the SYSMAN facility to manipulate devices and drivers.   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisony2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:43:16 -0000s= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>r@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?B Message-ID: <1014338658.27967.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>   look at the units field   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C756007.54987BD9@videotron.ca... > Bob Koehler wrote:  > > > mc sysgen sh timeprompwait. > > > show a great unit : the microfortnight ! > >o% > >    Goes back to VMS 1.x on VAXen.X >a >n, > I seem to be living on a different planet. >  > for me, the above does:t > % > SYSGEN-E-NOPARAM, no such parameterr >oJ > (and for the real parameter, it just professionally displays the value). >s >.
 > VAX-VMS 7.2    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 19:07:13 -0800" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0202211907.41c8e660@posting.google.com>R  g hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<GqYc8.6$fL6.31@news.cpqcorp.net>...rZ > In article <02022000533901.04934@bwian>, David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> writes:   <snip>  . > :Any one have any idea what it is all about? > 	 >   Ayup.r > D > :(Good to see that someone at Compaq still has a sense of humour.) > F >   I'm not in a position to, um, pre-emptively admit the existence of+ >   any (other) easter eggs within OpenVMS.   E You could (perhaps) give some "hints" as to where one might be "warm"cD if one were to go on an "easter egg hunt." No? (not that I have gobs of spare time at work)...n   JoeS   > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------P >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 22:45:31 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?, Message-ID: <3C75BECF.67945434@videotron.ca>   > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message news:<> >   I'm not in a position to, um, pre-emptively admit the existence of- > >   any (other) easter eggs within OpenVMS.e  N Easter is just about a month away and they have already started to sell Easter eggs in stores.-  G Are you saying that Compaq intends to productize those easter eggs, and L require a special licence ($$$) to access those easter eggs in VMS ?  (would1 those be considered system integrated products ?)r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:26:54 +0100:2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)@ Subject: Re: Strange status value - when can I expect to get it?; Message-ID: <3c75ba7e.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>d  2 Carl Karcher (karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu) and< and JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> both complained: > Bob Koehler wrote:  > > > mc sysgen sh timeprompwait. > > > show a great unit : the microfortnight ! > >f" > > Goes back to VMS 1.x on VAXen. >h& > %SYSGEN-E-NOPARAM, no such parameter   SYSGEN> SHOW TIMEPROMPTWAITfK Parameter Name      Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unit  DynamicrK --------------      -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  -------5F TIMEPROMPTWAIT        65535         -1         0         -1 uFortnight  + SYSGEN>  HELP SYS_PARAMETERS TIMEPROMPTWAIT6   Sys_Parameters     TIMEPROMPTWAIT
        ...)        (The time unit of micro-fortnightsu9        is approximated as seconds in the implementation.)e
        ...  < Gross approximation, I'd say: 1 uFortnight = 1.2096 seconds.+ But properly documented. What a great joke!u   cu,i   Martin --  H    Emacs would be a great   | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5    operating system,        | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de H    if only it came with     |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/<    a decent editor...       | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:41:55 -0800e& From: name99@mac.com (Maynard Handley)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  a7 Message-ID: <name99-2102021841550001@handma2.apple.com>p  5 In article <3C6E87A1.260E5D93@attbi.com>, Jeff Kenton  <JeffKenton@attbi.com> wrote:i  % > greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:i > > 
 >         ...y > > B > > Do you give much credence to the idea that language shapes theD > > thoughts that are possible? I think it's true, there are certainJ > > things that the French don't really have a way of saying, and IME justF > > don't talk about. Similarly German is blessed with dozens of words > > like Angst and Weltschmerz.4 > >  > 3 > Boy, we're way off topic here, but what the heck:  > P > The book "Language, Thought & Reality" by Benjamin Lee Whorf (MIT Press, 1956)K > proposed this a long time ago.  He has an interesting discussion of Hopi,oK > claiming that they have no words for "the present", so that everything isuP > either in/continuing from the past, or in/going into the future.  Might affectJ > your view of the world to think in Hopi if it's so (it's been disputed).  H People have looked into this to the extent that it is easily measurable,G for example with respect to words for color. At least in the context ofaH colors, not having words for colors does not mean that people cannot seeE the colors as different from other colors, or that they see colors intC different ways from people whose languages do include those words. wJ Most of the authors I've read dismiss the hypothesis, but that may reflectI my chosen authors (eg Pinker and Dennet) rather than reflect a consensus.lJ On the other hand, there are a group of people who would dearly love it toE be true that language limits and controls what we think, because that)H would imply that they can build the new jerusalem by modifying language,H and when people desperately want something to be true, they're not going@ be especially critical about treating the hypothesis purely as a scientific matter.   Maynardn   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:39:02 -0000t= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>0/ Subject: Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?uB Message-ID: <1014338404.27883.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  J I think this means that you can't call out of a priveleged shareable imageD to a non-privileged one. Also you can't have calling loops in Alpha.  ? "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote in messageu* news:3C74C5C8.70611F44@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU... > Hello Richard,< > thanks for the great example. At the time a fighting with:K > -SYSTEM-F-NOSHRIMG, privileged shareable image cannot have outbound callsi >  > Richard Maher wrote: > >h > > Hi,n > > L > > I entered this note on the 11th January. If you don't accept attachmentsL > > then you can do a search of Google for "maher" around that time as there isI > > also a text version somewhere.  If you'd like to use this software or  need2 > > some consultancy then feel free to contact me. > >wK > > Unfortunately Stephen Hoffman says the $getuai version is UNsafe :-( If" onlyF > > we had Dustin then we could start on Marathon Man II. Put him in aE > > dentists's chair, crack open a tooth and ask "Why isn't it bloody  safe?".y > >aI > > The attached are DCL command files containing everything you need form twotK > > UWSS examples that access the UAF for users without privs. One uses RMS,' > > directly and the other uses $getuaiw > >j > > Regards Richard Maher. > > H > > PS. Sorry for the inevitable mime that attachments seem to generate. > No problemo. Thanks! >  > --	 > Cheers,.H > +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+G >  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222 G >  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222tH > +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 20:25:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r/ Subject: Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?i3 Message-ID: <LqICnxBpW5pN@eisner.encompasserve.org>i   In article <1014338404.27883.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>, "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> writes:L > I think this means that you can't call out of a priveleged shareable imageF > to a non-privileged one. Also you can't have calling loops in Alpha. > A > "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote in messagev, > news:3C74C5C8.70611F44@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU... >> Hello Richard,p= >> thanks for the great example. At the time a fighting with:eL >> -SYSTEM-F-NOSHRIMG, privileged shareable image cannot have outbound calls  E It also means you also can't call out of a privileged shareable image & to another privileged shareable image.   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:43:18 +0000 (UTC)u, From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotmail.c0m>/ Subject: Re: SYSPRV & $GETUAI - Dumb question ?D/ Message-ID: <a54pa6$8kb$1@helle.btinternet.com>   I For Pete's sake just do what all of the VMS and Rdb engineers do and dropa the /PROTECT linker qualifier!  L Make sure to protect the psects that need protecting against user mode write2 access with the protect= linker options qualifier.  L As I've previously stated. the documentation is ambiguous on this matter butI the gist (and backed up by Stephen Hoffman) is that it is a huge securityaG hole. (See my example accessing SYSUAF via RMS for a "secure" example).j  K Unfortunately, to date, no one has bothered to explain why. They could tell)# us but then they'd have to kill us.>  B Please search Google (or other) for "UWSS" for recent discussions.  K Can someone log a fucking support call and enter the answer here? This is a" joke!i  + "We want you to develop on VMS" Pig's Arse!a   Regards Richard Mahere  B PS. If you were merely trying to wind me up then you've succeeded.  8 Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:LqICnxBpW5pN@eisner.encompasserve.org...aK > In article <1014338404.27883.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>, "David 8 McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk> writes:H > > I think this means that you can't call out of a priveleged shareable imagetH > > to a non-privileged one. Also you can't have calling loops in Alpha. > >eC > > "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> wrote in message . > > news:3C74C5C8.70611F44@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU... > >> Hello Richard, ? > >> thanks for the great example. At the time a fighting with:wH > >> -SYSTEM-F-NOSHRIMG, privileged shareable image cannot have outbound calls  > G > It also means you also can't call out of a privileged shareable imageh( > to another privileged shareable image.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Feb 2002 23:33:46 GMT2 From: setala@phys-staff7.kolumbus.fi (Saku Setala)- Subject: Trying to boot a VAX 6300 (6000-300)n+ Message-ID: <a5404q$9nt$1@news.kolumbus.fi>-   Hi all,-  9 I have been trying to netboot a Vax 6300 for a while now.a  M Only succeeded loading netbsd kernel via netbsd mopd, not too much help sinces% netbsd does not support Vax 6000 yet.-  1 Another thing what works is "infoserver mopboot".   > Ultrix 4.5 diskless boot does not work, OpenVMS 7.2 vaxcluster& diskless satellite boot does not work.  2 My Microvax 3100 and 3400 work fine on both cases.  H I've pulled out all extra processors and interfaces, only ethernet left.  L --clip--(So here's the Infoserver mopboot image which loads from OpenVMS 7.2 vaxcluster),   >>> B/R5:100/X:D/B:6 ET0 Initializing system.F F   E   D   C   B   A   9   8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1   0   NODE #C     A   A   .   .   M   M   M   .   .   .   .   .   .   P       TYPeC     o   o   .   .   +   +   +   .   .   .   .   .   .   +       STFtC     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   B       BPDtC     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +       ETFaC     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   B       BPD   G .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   .   .   .   +   .   XBI D + G .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   XBI E +r  C     .   .   .   .  B1  A2  A1   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       ILVsE     .   .   .   .  32  32  32   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       96 Mb-  , ROM = 6.0  EEPROM = 2.0/6.0  SN = GA92000372   Loading system software.   Filename: ISL_LVAX_072.SYS    6 The filename for NICDrom MOP boot is: ISL_LVAX_072.SYS% * Passing control to transfer addressi  %  Network Initial System Load Function"  Version 1.2     FUNCTION        FUNCTION     ID     1     -       Display Menu     2     -       Help      3     -       Choose Service      4     -       Select Options     5     -       Stop    Enter a function ID value:e    I --clip-- (earlier try with VMS, the same problem happens with Ultrix 4.5)r  
 >>> SHOW BOOTm   DEFAULT /XMI:E /BI:6 MUA6r   KOE     /XMI:D /BI:6 ET0 >>> BOOT KOE Initializing system.  F F   E   D   C   B   A   9   8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1   0   NODE #C     A   A   .   .   M   M   M   .   .   .   .   P   P   P       TYP0C     o   o   .   .   +   +   +   .   .   .   .   +   +   +       STFjC     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   E   E   B       BPD-C     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   +   +       ETF$C     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   E   E   B       BPD   G .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   .   .   .   +   .   XBI D + G .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   +   .   .   +   .   XBI E +a  C     .   .   .   .  B1  A2  A1   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       ILViE     .   .   .   .  32  32  32   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       96 Mbg    , ROM = 6.0  EEPROM = 2.0/6.0  SN = GA92000372     ?2D For Secondary Processor 2sF ?59 System serial number mismatch.  Secondary processor has GA82000002 ?2D For Secondary Processor 3XF ?59 System serial number mismatch.  Secondary processor has GA82000002 Loading system software.  % * Passing control to transfer addressa         Any suggestions?   Thanks.i  
 --Saku Setala.   -- A -- Saku Setl- System Planning Manager-% Kolumbus Oy 	http://www.kolumbus.com/0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:36:30 -0000u= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>01 Subject: Re: Trying to boot a VAX 6300 (6000-300)eB Message-ID: <1014338252.27830.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  K This rings a bell. I think a 6000 series VAX needs to have writeboot run ona6 the bootable disk. I think microVAXes don't need this.  K Also there is some console trick to change the serial number of the CPU andn: write it back to the console, which is the second problem.  4 Sorry to be so vague, I don't have my books with me.  ? "Saku Setala" <setala@phys-staff7.kolumbus.fi> wrote in message % news:a5404q$9nt$1@news.kolumbus.fi....	 > Hi all,S > ; > I have been trying to netboot a Vax 6300 for a while now.l >@I > Only succeeded loading netbsd kernel via netbsd mopd, not too much helpT since ' > netbsd does not support Vax 6000 yet.c >)3 > Another thing what works is "infoserver mopboot".c >o@ > Ultrix 4.5 diskless boot does not work, OpenVMS 7.2 vaxcluster( > diskless satellite boot does not work. >a4 > My Microvax 3100 and 3400 work fine on both cases. > J > I've pulled out all extra processors and interfaces, only ethernet left. > J > --clip--(So here's the Infoserver mopboot image which loads from OpenVMS 7.2d
 > vaxcluster). >> > >>> B/R5:100/X:D/B:6 ET0 > Initializing system.H > F   E   D   C   B   A   9   8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1   0   NODE #E >     A   A   .   .   M   M   M   .   .   .   .   .   .   P       TYPeE >     o   o   .   .   +   +   +   .   .   .   .   .   .   +       STFSE >     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   B       BPDeE >     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +       ETFlE >     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   B       BPDi >,I > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   .   .   .   +   .   XBI D +eI > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   XBI E +0 >sE >     .   .   .   .  B1  A2  A1   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       ILVcG >     .   .   .   .  32  32  32   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       96 Mb1 >3. > ROM = 6.0  EEPROM = 2.0/6.0  SN = GA92000372 >  > Loading system software. >  > Filename: ISL_LVAX_072.SYS >. > 8 > The filename for NICDrom MOP boot is: ISL_LVAX_072.SYS' > * Passing control to transfer addresst >p' >  Network Initial System Load Functioni >  Version 1.2 >o >   FUNCTION        FUNCTION >     ID  >     1     -       Display Menu >     2     -       Help" >     3     -       Choose Service" >     4     -       Select Options >     5     -       Stop >e >  Enter a function ID value:p >s >eK > --clip-- (earlier try with VMS, the same problem happens with Ultrix 4.5)1 >b > >>> SHOW BOOT8 >   DEFAULT /XMI:E /BI:6 MUA6m >   KOE     /XMI:D /BI:6 ET0 > >>> BOOT KOE > Initializing system. > H > F   E   D   C   B   A   9   8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1   0   NODE #E >     A   A   .   .   M   M   M   .   .   .   .   P   P   P       TYP.E >     o   o   .   .   +   +   +   .   .   .   .   +   +   +       STFvE >     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   E   E   B       BPDvE >     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   +   +       ETFhE >     .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   E   E   B       BPDa >sI > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   .   .   .   +   .   XBI D +eI > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   +   .   .   +   .   XBI E +n >iE >     .   .   .   .  B1  A2  A1   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       ILVtG >     .   .   .   .  32  32  32   .   .   .   .   .   .   .       96 Mb- >- >-. > ROM = 6.0  EEPROM = 2.0/6.0  SN = GA92000372 >- >  > ?2D For Secondary Processor 2eH > ?59 System serial number mismatch.  Secondary processor has GA82000002 > ?2D For Secondary Processor 3-H > ?59 System serial number mismatch.  Secondary processor has GA82000002 > Loading system software. >-' > * Passing control to transfer address, >  >  >2 >: > Any suggestions? >M	 > Thanks.e >p > --Saku Setalaa >  > -- > --
 > Saku Setl  > System Planning Managero& > Kolumbus Oy http://www.kolumbus.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Feb 2002 01:47:21 GMT2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>7 Subject: Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.r+ Message-ID: <a547v90lv4@enews3.newsguy.com>u  + In comp.sys.dec sword7@speakeasy.org wrote:rJ > My first edition is "1987" that have information about queue instrctions > but not much.e  I Tim, you're talking about a Hardback book that's about 2-3 inches thick, gG right?  I believe John, OTOH, istalking about one of the DEC Handbooks.    			Zane-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:10:42 -0000r From: sword7@speakeasy.org7 Subject: Re: TS10 - Successful but some PROBE problems.e/ Message-ID: <u7bh623tjcjtd8@corp.supernews.com>f  A In comp.sys.dec Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:wK > Tim, you're talking about a Hardback book that's about 2-3 inches thick,  I > right?  I believe John, OTOH, istalking about one of the DEC Handbooks.i  E You mean that handbook called "VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures  F v5.2"?  That is 2-3 inches thick and so heavy book.   I have VAX Arch L Handbook that is smaller like 1 inch thick.  That is first edition (1987).  C I still am looking for second edition (PDF or copy) that has KA655 -B information.  I implemented KA655 and KA630 processors in my TS10 	 emulator.   D Well, I think that queue instructions are fine on my VAX emulator.  D However a mystery bug still remains undetermined due to AST delivery= crash during PROBEW operation on both Simh and TS10 emulator.    -- Tim Stark   -- t, Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:33:05 -0000-= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>e% Subject: Re: UAF settings for Backup?)B Message-ID: <1014338048.27755.0.nnrp-07.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  H I would have pgflquota a bit less than half the largest pagefuile on the9 system. 250000 is way too low given the other parameters.n  2 "Mark Bowman" <mb301@hotmail.com> wrote in message7 news:1d08b916.0202210722.3f1e7588@posting.google.com... 4 > Rick Dyson <Rick-Dyson@UIowa.EDU> wrote in message% news:<3C7420E7.408794A5@UIowa.EDU>...eH > > In the OpenVMS System Manager's Manual for suggested settings for an accounteL > > running Backup, it suggests that the UAF quotas be assigned like WSQUOTA =  > > WSEXTENTG > > which both should be set to the value of the SYSGEN WSMAX parametert
 value.  In > > my case, I get:  > >h& > > $ MCR SYSMAN Parameters Show WSMAXK > > Parameter Name            Current    Default    Minimum    Maximum Units Dynamice >nL  --------------            -------    -------    -------    ------- ----  -- ----- F > > WSMAX                     1091584       4096       1024    8388608 Pagelets > >h. > > HOWEVER, if I look from SYSGEN I get this: > >f > > $ MCR SYSGEN > > SYSGEN>  USE ACTIVEv > > SYSGEN>  SHOW WSMAX K > > Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.     Unito Dynamice > L  --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ----  -- -----nE > > WSMAX                     1091584       4096      1024    8388608o PageletsK > >  internal value             68224        256        64     524288 Pagesh > >hI > > What is the "internal value" and should I use 1,091,584 or 68,224 forr
 the Backup- > > account's UAF quotas of WSQUOTA=WSEXTENT?  > >e > > Thanks for the help! > > Rick >eL > For some background reading on getting backups to run faster try this good link., >c >eL http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/operating_systems/VAX-DISP-APR-90-1.ht mlB > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6017/6017pro_045.html >g3 > These are the quotas we use on our Alpha cluster.s >r; > Maxjobs:         0  Fillm:     10000  Bytlm:       600000-; > Maxacctjobs:     0  Shrfillm:      0  Pbytlm:           0 ; > Maxdetach:       0  BIOlm:       300  JTquota:       8192jK > Prclm:          30  DIOlm:      4096  WSdef:            0 <infinite quota.K > Prio:            4  ASTlm:      4096  WSquo:            0 <infinite quotaoK > Queprio:         0  TQElm:        60  WSextent:         0 <infinite quotaa; > CPU:        (none)  Enqlm:     32767  Pgflquo:     250000T >e >T	 > Regardse >  > Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:49:56 -0500r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>:- Subject: Re: Using Edit inside a procedure...a2 Message-ID: <2ccd8.17543$X2.198612@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   >...) > <valdemir-@uol.com.br> wrote in messaget2 > news:200202161306.LAA01603@walters.uol.com.br... > > 9 > > How can I edit a file inside a procedure ? Like this:t > >  > > vax1> type x.com > >       $ EDIT/READ LOGIN.COMu > >       $ EXIT >...  L I did not see the original message, but if you are trying to use InteractiveL edit inside a command procedure then just put the ASSIGN/USER command beforeH the EDIT command like I did below, both EDT and TPU will work like this.  ) $ assign /user_mode sys$command sys$inputk $ edit/edt login.com $!) $ assign /user_mode sys$command sys$inputa $ edit/tpu login.com   --E AOL CD Use #3415; As a handy prop when trying to explain the sport of % Curling to your Mother and your Wife.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 19:41:57 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>- Subject: Re: Using Edit inside a procedure...m2 Message-ID: <94cd8.2823$Yf1.17988@typhoon.bart.nl>  D Well the error message explains it all, EDIT/EDT (nor EDIT/TPU) only< works from a terminal. Try the HELP contents on EDIT/SUMSLP. Perhaps that will work for you.e   Hans  ' <valdemir-@uol.com.br> wrote in messagee0 news:200202161306.LAA01603@walters.uol.com.br... >m7 > How can I edit a file inside a procedure ? Like this:  >2 > vax1> type x.com >       $ EDIT/READ LOGIN.COMa >       $ EXIT >:4 > When I execute this procedure, I get this message: >B1 > Change mode can be entered only from a terminal4 >4 >2 >3 > Thanks...e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:00:55 +0930o/ From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> 6 Subject: Re: What is the best NFS package for OpenVMS?. Message-ID: <3C6EA55F.9EBF516@wasd.vsm.com.au>   Bob Ceculski wrote: D > I have been on vms for over 16 years now "without" an os crash ...F > We have been on purveyor for two years now w/o a crash or lockup ...@ > We have been on TCPware for over 2 years now w/o a problem ...G > These are called testimonials ... do you have any, including your own G > that suggests that wasd is reliable ... thats all I am asking for ...iH > My point is, you have a job, and wasd is not your primary job, it is aG > side hobby, and it is great that you are trying to help others w/free0I > shareware, but software that you pay for is generally better (i.e. vms)kJ > than shareware (i.e. linux) because you are paying for it (the exceptionF > to this is microsoft) ... wasd may be an exception, and testimonials1 > would answer any questions ... do you have any?t  G I don't really wish to become entangled in one of these long, fruitlessIB threads that seem to perenially erupt in c.o.v. but as I'm alreadyC partly to blame for this one I feel as if I can't let one of my pete2 peeves pass without comment; the lionizing of VMS.  H Now this is not a criticism of Bob's statement.  I can quite accept thatB Bob has not experienced VMS crashing or presenting another serious1 problem.  This has not been my experience though."  @ In the eleven years I spent directly managing a significant siteH (1988-1998) and since, spanning VMS V5.0 through to the now latest V7.3,G with up to some 100 systems and including one cluster at one stage withyH 70+ members, I have had several.  And I'm not willing to accept that allF of them were due to poor or uneducated management (mine), at least notE the ones I was issued with ECOs or interim patches for, or those that,G ended up escalated to VMS Engineering.  As a matter-of-fact I can think G of two periods where I could only describe our larger cluster as doggedtE by issue after issue for which we were sooner-or-later issued with anh ECO.  D Indeed the latest is still causing me to smart - VMS V7.3 XFC.  ThisH actually resulted in something far *worse* than a system crash (yes, I'dE put system crashes, bad as they are, down from the top of the list). YH Amongst other issues for us XFC resulted in subtle data corruption.  HadD it not been for post-processing sanity checks some irreplacable dataD could have been archived for later analysis in a completely unusableE state.  As I understand it this is still waiting on final resolution.7  H Now it has been argued that V7.3 should have been designated V8.0 and weD may actually have yet another example of why we are inclined to step= over dot-zero releases of anything but within a discussion ofd. "production quality" this is most significant.  F Now I am not wishing to unduly criticise VMS and particularly not it'sE engineering, for which I have the highest respect, nor am I intent on G hastening it's demise, but like all other complex software environments @ it is not perfect and IMHO should not be touted as such.  IndeedE experienced, knowledgable and relatively unbiased colleagues (I am atpF pains to exclude the Andrew Harrisons of this world) laugh (literally)A at the narrow views sometimes expressed in the VMS vs. The Others G discussions that occur here and there from time to time.  Certainly VMS H well holds it's own against the opposition but not necessarily due to it3 having reached the O/S equivalent of enlightenment.   A Now perhaps we might all live quieter lives if we stuck to an n-2 > version of whatever, where we live with less features and moreE stability, but for many that is not an option.  Also, despite all the H Alpha, Beta and Gamma (dot-zero) testing, until something becomes widelyC deployed the nastier, latent gremlins often will not surface.  It's F dirty work but then someone, somewhere, sometime will have to do it by
 necessity.  G Bob, I wish your charmed life to continue far into the future (with VMS G :^) and whatever amulet you have hanging across your terminal would you. please send me one.X  H Now that I have heaped burning coals upon my head I might retire for the evening.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:58:16 -05001@ From: "Vassilos, Andrea L Raleigh, NC" <avassilo@email.usps.gov>* Subject: Workstation screen saver questionK Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75003FCE352@rlghncst625.usps.gov>p   Hello,  C 	I have an Alpha station running VMS v 7.2-1.  My screen saver usedoH to work but now it is all black.  I have had it set to Hopalong iteratedI fractals &/or fireworks for some time. Before the screen saver turned all F black, I received several messages, each in a small rectangular windowA saying that there was a problem with StartupDtscreenPyro routine.   C 	I have done some searches and found the CDE$STARTUP.COM as well as H example files have Dtscreen references in them.  I have looked at readmeJ files in example directories about the Dtscreen routines but have not beenJ able to find the file that is responsible for my screen saver being black.& Can anyone help me fix my workstation?   Andrea   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:04:27 -0700 @ From: "World Class Sportfishing" <subscribe@costaricamarlin.com>" Subject: World Class Sportfishing!H Message-ID: <PLEPLHKJEDMKCEJMLPPHOEFFJABC.subscribe@costaricamarlin.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_41FC_01C1BAF1.703EE7E0e Content-Type: text/plain;0 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablecX X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by pontus.host4u.net id g1LLwVD22377  E Dear Fishing Enthusiast! Greetings from Playa Zancudo! We are a small D family-owned sport-fishing operation located on the Pacific coast ofH Costa Rica near the Panamanian border. Our modern fleet of 28-foot McGeeC Anglers boasts the best equipment Penn has to offer, as well as therG latest in electronics. Our shore-side facilities include a full-servicesA restaurant and bar and brand new air-conditioned guest rooms. OurhC research indicates that you may be interested in receiving periodicnD fishing reports and information about special fishing packages. ThisE service is free of charge, and there is no obligation of any sort; no = sales person will hound you on the telephone. Simply click onoJ =91subscribe=92 below, and send. Click on =91more information=92 if you w= ish toF receive details on sport-fishing packages and other vacations in CostaJ Rica=92s tropical paradise. Our current special "Buy Four Catch Five" Boo= klE one of our four day packages and get a fifth day on us. Specifically,uD all our packages include 1) Reception at SJO airport; 2) Transfer toJ your hotel; 3) One night=92s lodging at Hotel in San Jose; 4) Hotel Picku= pdC in the morning for your scenic flight to Golfito; 5) Round trip AirnF transportation San Jose/Golfito/San Jose via SANSA; 6) Transfer to ourG Lodge in Playa Zancudo; 7) 5 full fishing days, Inshore/Offshore/River;.F 8) All meals and beverages at our on site Restaurant and Sushi bar; 9)D Accommodations in our brand new, air conditioned cabinas Bring threeH friends and enjoy an incredible fishing adventure for only $1660.00 EACHG BOOK NOW This offer expires March 31 If you have received this email in I error, please accept our apologies and simply click on =93unsubscribe=94, D and you will never hear from us again. Please do not hit the "reply"B button, so that we can most effectively respond to your request We* release =91em so our kids can catch =91em!  2 To Subscribe, click: subscribe@costaricamarlin.comD <mailto:subscribe@costaricamarlin.com?subject=3DPlease Subscribe Me!  + ------=_NextPart_000_41FC_01C1BAF1.703EE7E0  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    Dear Fishing Enthusiast!   Greetings from Playa Zancudo!   D We are a small family-owned sport-fishing operation located on the =E Pacific coast of Costa Rica near the Panamanian border.  Our modern = F fleet of 28-foot McGee Anglers boasts the best equipment Penn has to =I offer, as well as the latest in electronics.  Our shore-side facilities =iI include a full-service restaurant and bar and brand new air-conditioned =  guest rooms.  I Our research indicates that you may be interested in receiving periodic = ? fishing reports and information about special fishing packages.a  I This service is free of charge, and there is no obligation of any sort; =lB no sales person will hound you on the telephone. Simply click on =  =91subscribe=92 below, and send.  C Click on =91more information=92 if you wish to receive details on = G sport-fishing packages and other vacations in Costa Rica=92s tropical = J paradise. Our current special "Buy Four Catch Five" Book one of our four =' day packages and get a fifth day on us.   I Specifically, all our packages include 1)  Reception at SJO airport; 2) =PH Transfer to your hotel; 3) One night=92s lodging at Hotel in San Jose; =F 4) Hotel Pickup in the morning for your scenic flight to Golfito; 5) =G Round trip Air transportation San Jose/Golfito/San Jose via SANSA; 6) =BA Transfer to our Lodge in Playa Zancudo; 7) 5 full fishing days, = C Inshore/Offshore/River; 8) All meals and beverages at our on site = C Restaurant and Sushi bar; 9) Accommodations in our brand new, air =  conditioned cabinasM  J Bring three friends and enjoy an incredible fishing adventure for only   =   $1660.00 EACHo  ' BOOK NOW This offer expires March 31=20   G If you have received this email in error, please accept our apologies = H and simply click on =93unsubscribe=94, and you will never hear from us = again.  G Please do not hit the "reply" button, so that we can most effectively =  respond to your request   J We release =91em so our kids can catch =91em!</p>To Subscribe, click: <a =I href=3D"mailto:subscribe@costaricamarlin.com?subject=3DPlease Subscribe =-F Me! ">subscribe@costaricamarlin.com</a></p>To Unsubscribe, click: <a =A href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@costaricamarlin.com?subject=3DPlease =RI Unsubscribe Me! ">unsubscribe@costaricamarlin.com</a></p>For additional =. information, click: <a =G href=3D"mailto:subscribe@costaricamarlin.com?subject=3DPlease send me =s> more information! ">subscribe@costaricamarlin.com</a></p> <a =! href=3D"mailto:?subject=3D "></a>c- ------=_NextPart_000_41FC_01C1BAF1.703EE7E0--b   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:33:54 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: World Class Sportfishing!9 Message-ID: <Ctfd8.7542$ro5.3284809@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>j  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00w Content-Type: text/plain;u 	charset="iso-8859-1"s+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablev  F And this has what to do with VMS? You folks aiming to put together a = Shark Fishing expedition???r  + ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>n <STYLE></STYLE>V </HEAD>o <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>H <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And this has what to do with VMS? You = folks aiming=20hH to put together a Shark Fishing expedition???</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00---   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Feb 2002 20:26:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)h& Subject: Re: World Class Sportfishing!3 Message-ID: <6bdenkKkgV0u@eisner.encompasserve.org>K  p In article <Ctfd8.7542$ro5.3284809@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:. > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > - > ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00D > Content-Type: text/plain;. > 	charset="iso-8859-1">- > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   & Please do not post MIME in newsgroups.J Contact your software vendor if the method for avoiding MIME is not clear.  H > And this has what to do with VMS? You folks aiming to put together a = > Shark Fishing expedition???n > - > ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00A > Content-Type: text/html; > 	charset="iso-8859-1" - > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  > @ > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML><HEAD>9 > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =S > charset=3Diso-8859-1">; > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>t > <STYLE></STYLE> 	 > </HEAD>a > <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>J > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And this has what to do with VMS? You = > folks aiming=20 J > to put together a Shark Fishing expedition???</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > / > ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00--  >  -- iN ==============================================================================I The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythinglJ      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willI      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warnings H      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival      of the online community."N ==============================================================================   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 05:56:23 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: World Class Sportfishing!9 Message-ID: <b4ld8.7669$ro5.3537103@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>   J Oh for cripe's sake, Larry, if this is the biggest thing you have to bitchF about, then just killfile me. Or bitch at my ISP. Or Mike Capellas. Or Elvis.  L FYI my mailer didn't say anything about minme until after the fact, not that6 an excuse is worth a tinkers damn in this environment.    : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:6bdenkKkgV0u@eisner.encompasserve.org... E > In article <Ctfd8.7542$ro5.3284809@typhoon.ne.ipsvc.net>, "Terry C.u, Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:0 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > / > > ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00t > > Content-Type: text/plain;  > > charset="iso-8859-1"/ > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable- >-( > Please do not post MIME in newsgroups.L > Contact your software vendor if the method for avoiding MIME is not clear. >:J > > And this has what to do with VMS? You folks aiming to put together a = > > Shark Fishing expedition???i > >l/ > > ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00A > > Content-Type: text/html; > > charset="iso-8859-1"/ > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  > > B > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > > <HTML><HEAD>; > > <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =e > > charset=3Diso-8859-1">= > > <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>m > > <STYLE></STYLE>, > > </HEAD>  > > <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>L > > <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And this has what to do with VMS? You = > > folks aiming=20 L > > to put together a Shark Fishing expedition???</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > >n1 > > ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C1BB07.2E3BCA00--a > >u > -- > L ============================================================================ ==K > The Boulder Pledge: "Under no circumstances will I ever purchase anythingeL >      offered to me as the result of an unsolicited email message. Nor willK >      I forward chain letters, petitions, mass mailings, or virus warningsLJ >      to large numbers of others. This is my contribution to the survival  >      of the online community." > L ============================================================================ ==   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.103 ************************