1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 27 Feb 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 114       Contents:6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?6 Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett?+ Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS + Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS  Re: corrupt pages 	 DFO Issue 
 RE: DFO Issue  Re: Edit/TPU question... Re: Edit/TPU question... Re: Edit/TPU question... Re: expensive procedure calls  Re: expensive procedure calls  Re: expensive procedure calls  Re: expensive procedure calls  Re: expensive procedure calls  Re: expensive procedure calls  Re: Ftp/copy problem Re: Ftp/copy problem Re: Ftp/copy problemJ Re: Getting VMS running on alphapc 150 - any help or pointers appreciated.J Re: Getting VMS running on alphapc 150 - any help or pointers appreciated.J Re: Getting VMS running on alphapc 150 - any help or pointers appreciated. Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs  RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs = Re: IBM says they have best real time mainframe, where's VMS?  Re: If you need PI.... Re: If you need PI.... Re: If you need PI.... Re: If you need PI....) Re: inter-process communication and timer ) Re: inter-process communication and timer  Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles RE: Itanium troubles Re: Itanium troubles9 Re: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN 5 More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN 9 Re: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN 9 Re: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN  Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$ Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$ Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$P Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization)P Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization)P Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization) Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ  Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ  Re: Remote Password changes  Re: Remote Password changes  Re: Remote Password changes  Revamping of OPCOM ? Re: Revamping of OPCOM ?$ Re: select() does not work for pipes Re: SHOW USER/FULL Re: SHOW USER/FULL Re: SHOW USER/FULL Sound on alpha/VMS? P Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  P Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  ( Re: TCPIP throuput for a VAXstation 3100( Re: TCPIP throuput for a VAXstation 3100	 Re: unzip % Re: vax/vms documentation - psi / x29 % Re: vax/vms documentation - psi / x29 % Re: vax/vms documentation - psi / x29 
 Very slow ftp % VMS single Login with NDS e-directory ) Re: VMS single Login with NDS e-directory ) Re: VMS single Login with NDS e-directory   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:55:47 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett? C Message-ID: <Dz5f8.205772$Aw2.15993876@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   K Interesting - especially as IIRC the personal attacks were started by those . (Carly and the BoD) *supporting* the merger...   - bill    2 "Jean Norton" <jean@staffing.com> wrote in message4 news:Qi5f8.26095$dj3.861881@typhoon.austin.rr.com...J I can't find it on the net, so since I'm a pretty fast typer I'll enter it* here (OK, fast, not necessarily accurate):   ~snip~   Dear Walter:  K Your words and actions in recent weeks are not the words and actions of the H Walter Hewlett each of us has known for many years.  While we vigorouslyJ disagree with your views regarding the pending Compaq merger - and we knowJ you disagree with ours - there is no reason for your increasingly strident attacks on HP and our CEO.  I Each day your newspaper ads, press releases, press statements and letters E grow more belligernt.  Each day you move the debate further away from J rational financial discourse.  There are times we wonder whether the words3 and arguments are yours, or those of your advisors.   J None of this, of cours, is helpful to HP or its shareowners.  None of this$ is helpful to the value of HP stock.   Let us cite a few examples:   J You have tried, unsuccessfuly, to portray your financial advisor, FriedmanL Fleisher & Lowe (FFL), as an independent third party providing and objectiveK evaluation of the merger.  You have said in SEC filings since December that H FFL was engaged "to independently evaluate the proposed merger."1  SinceF November, you have based al of your financial arguments on informationE provided to you by FFL.  But is was not until early February that you L revealed that FFKL stands to reap a bonus payment of $12,000,000 if they canK help you gather up enough votes to defeat the merger.2  You say that FFL is E "independent," but they are not.  You should know that this is wrong.   K You have fli-flopped repeatedly on whether you have a viable alternative to I the Compaq merger, and if so, exactly what it is.  One day we read you do J not have a plan, the next day we read that you do, and a third day we readL that what you have are "guiding principles."  You must know that this is not helpful to HP's shareowners.  D You have misrepresented ths Board's deliberative process repeatedly,I starting with your remarkable denial of the fact that we, as a Board have J been reviewing strategic alternatives over the past 2 1/2 years.  You haveI not disclosed that you fully concurred with the Board's past decisions to G renect exiting the PC business and spinning-off the imagin and printing G business.  You have mischaracterized the circumstances surrounding your L voting decision on the merger.  You know the importance this Board places onL good governance and your attacks on our processes are unfair and misleading.  H You have tried, unsuccessfully, to drive a wedge between our CEO and theG Board of Directors.  We have been, as you well know, unequivocal in our G support fo rher and you calls for her depature from HP are baseless and  irresponsible.  I All of us, including you, as directors of HP with fiduciary duties to all J shareowners, must guard against getting to the point where we are preparedH to say anything in order to win.  We must present the facts candidly andI fairly, and let HP's shareowners make thier decisions on a fully informed I basis.  We have followed this course thoughout this difficult period.  We $ hope you will choose to do the same.   Signed,    ~snip~   Members of the HP Board  1,2 SEC Filings     2 "Jean Norton" <jean@staffing.com> wrote in message4 news:r0Me8.18956$dj3.712279@typhoon.austin.rr.com..." > Talk about airing dirty laundry. >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:45:49 GMT ' From: "Jean Norton" <jean@staffing.com> ? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett? : Message-ID: <1y4f8.25819$dj3.858175@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  K It was in the business section of the Austin-American Statesman.  I suspect H this wasn't the only newspaper that displayed it.  I will retype it if I can't find the link.   Jean  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C7C3D80.80F48406@fsi.net...  > Jean Norton wrote: > > $ > > Talk about airing dirty laundry. >  > Where did you see it?  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:37:52 GMT ' From: "Jean Norton" <jean@staffing.com> ? Subject: Re: Anyone See the full page ad letter to Mr. Hewlett? : Message-ID: <Qi5f8.26095$dj3.861881@typhoon.austin.rr.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1BF61.AB29A290  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I I can't find it on the net, so since I'm a pretty fast typer I'll enter = - it here (OK, fast, not necessarily accurate):    ~snip~   Dear Walter:  I Your words and actions in recent weeks are not the words and actions of = C the Walter Hewlett each of us has known for many years.  While we = I vigorously disagree with your views regarding the pending Compaq merger = D - and we know you disagree with ours - there is no reason for your =0 increasingly strident attacks on HP and our CEO.  C Each day your newspaper ads, press releases, press statements and = J letters grow more belligernt.  Each day you move the debate further away =G from rational financial discourse.  There are times we wonder whether = @ the words and arguments are yours, or those of your advisors.=20  G None of this, of cours, is helpful to HP or its shareowners.  None of = ) this is helpful to the value of HP stock.    Let us cite a few examples:   C You have tried, unsuccessfuly, to portray your financial advisor, = I Friedman Fleisher & Lowe (FFL), as an independent third party providing = G and objective evaluation of the merger.  You have said in SEC filings = D since December that FFL was engaged "to independently evaluate the =I proposed merger."1  Since November, you have based al of your financial = H arguments on information provided to you by FFL.  But is was not until =C early February that you revealed that FFKL stands to reap a bonus = G payment of $12,000,000 if they can help you gather up enough votes to = F defeat the merger.2  You say that FFL is "independent," but they are =) not.  You should know that this is wrong.   J You have fli-flopped repeatedly on whether you have a viable alternative =G to the Compaq merger, and if so, exactly what it is.  One day we read = G you do not have a plan, the next day we read that you do, and a third = I day we read that what you have are "guiding principles."  You must know = - that this is not helpful to HP's shareowners.   F You have misrepresented ths Board's deliberative process repeatedly, =F starting with your remarkable denial of the fact that we, as a Board =H have been reviewing strategic alternatives over the past 2 1/2 years.  =G You have not disclosed that you fully concurred with the Board's past = I decisions to renect exiting the PC business and spinning-off the imagin = E and printing business.  You have mischaracterized the circumstances = J surrounding your voting decision on the merger.  You know the importance =H this Board places on good governance and your attacks on our processes = are unfair and misleading.  J You have tried, unsuccessfully, to drive a wedge between our CEO and the =I Board of Directors.  We have been, as you well know, unequivocal in our = I support fo rher and you calls for her depature from HP are baseless and =  irresponsible.  G All of us, including you, as directors of HP with fiduciary duties to = G all shareowners, must guard against getting to the point where we are = F prepared to say anything in order to win.  We must present the facts =I candidly and fairly, and let HP's shareowners make thier decisions on a = D fully informed basis.  We have followed this course thoughout this =: difficult period.  We hope you will choose to do the same.   Signed,    ~snip~   Members of the HP Board  1,2 SEC Filings     4 "Jean Norton" <jean@staffing.com> wrote in message =4 news:r0Me8.18956$dj3.712279@typhoon.austin.rr.com..." > Talk about airing dirty laundry. >=20 >=20  + ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1BF61.AB29A290  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can't find it on the net, so since =  I'm a pretty=20 : fast typer I'll enter it here (OK, fast, not necessarily = accurate):</FONT></DIV> 4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>~snip~</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>7 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Dear =  Walter:</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>I <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Your words and actions =  in recent=20J weeks are not the words and actions of the Walter Hewlett each of us has = known=20D for many years.&nbsp; While we vigorously disagree with your views = regarding the=20J pending Compaq merger - and we know you disagree with ours - there is no =	 reason=20 F for your increasingly strident attacks on HP and our CEO.</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>J <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Each day your newspaper =
 ads, press=20 I releases, press statements and letters grow more belligernt.&nbsp; Each = 
 day you=20G move the debate further away from rational financial discourse.&nbsp; =  There are=20H times we wonder whether the words and arguments are yours, or those of = your=20  advisors. </FONT></DIV> D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>J <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>None of this, of cours, = is helpful to=20J HP or its shareowners.&nbsp; None of this is helpful to the value of HP=20 stock.</FONT></DIV> D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>E <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Let us cite a few=20  examples:</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>B <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>You have tried, = unsuccessfuly, to=20H portray your financial advisor, Friedman Fleisher &amp; Lowe (FFL), as = an=20 C independent third party providing and objective evaluation of the =  merger.&nbsp;=20G You have said in SEC filings since December that FFL was engaged "to=20 I independently evaluate the proposed merger."1&nbsp; Since November, you =  have=20 I based al of your financial arguments on information provided to you by=20 G FFL.&nbsp; But is was not until early February that you revealed that =  FFKL=20 D stands to reap a bonus payment of $12,000,000 if they can help you = gather up=20? enough votes to defeat the merger.2&nbsp; You say that FFL is =  "independent," but=20 D they are not.&nbsp; You should know that this is wrong.</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>You have fli-flopped =  repeatedly on=20H whether you have a viable alternative to the Compaq merger, and if so, =
 exactly=20H what it is.&nbsp; One day we read you do not have a plan, the next day =
 we read=20G that you do, and a third day we read that what you have are "guiding=20 D principles."&nbsp; You must know that this is not helpful to HP's=20 shareowners.</FONT></DIV> D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>J <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>You have misrepresented = ths Board's=20J deliberative process repeatedly, starting with your remarkable denial of = the=20J fact that we, as a Board have been reviewing strategic alternatives over = the=20I past 2 1/2 years.&nbsp; You have not disclosed that you fully concurred =  with the=20 > Board's past decisions to renect exiting the PC business and = spinning-off the=20 C imagin and printing business.&nbsp; You have mischaracterized the =  circumstances=20D surrounding your voting decision on the merger.&nbsp; You know the =
 importance=20oH this Board places on good governance and your attacks on our processes = are=20# unfair and misleading.</FONT></DIV> D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>B <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>You have tried, = unsuccessfully, to=20 I drive a wedge between our CEO and the Board of Directors.&nbsp; We have =a been, as=20fI you well know, unequivocal in our support fo rher and you calls for her =q depature=20s4 from HP are baseless and irresponsible.</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>G <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>All of us, including =t
 you, as=20F directors of HP with fiduciary duties to all shareowners, must guard =
 against=20I getting to the point where we are prepared to say anything in order to=20tI win.&nbsp; We must present the facts candidly and fairly, and let HP's=20 F shareowners make thier decisions on a fully informed basis.&nbsp; We = have=20rI followed this course thoughout this difficult period.&nbsp; We hope you =y will=20 # choose to do the same.</FONT></DIV> D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>E <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Signed,</FONT></DIV>eD <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>~snip~</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Members of the HP = Board</FONT></DIV>: <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>1,2 SEC = Filings</FONT></DIV>D <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>4 <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>? <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Jean Norton" &lt;</FONT><A=20c7 href=3D"mailto:jean@staffing.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20lG size=3D2>jean@staffing.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; =  wrote in message=20  </FONT><A = C href=3D"news:r0Me8.18956$dj3.712279@typhoon.austin.rr.com"><FONT=20l face=3DArial=20tJ size=3D2>news:r0Me8.18956$dj3.712279@typhoon.austin.rr.com</FONT></A><FON= T=20H face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; = Talk about airing=205 dirty laundry.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT></BODY></HTML>c  - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1BF61.AB29A290--m   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:49:27 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS* Message-ID: <3c7caba7$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  _ In article <a5hbo9$i9s$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: = >In article <fe52053.0202261622.4183b2e7@posting.google.com>,f7 > antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au (Antony Wardle) writes:U >|> = >|> How many people upgrade the minute a new version is out?    J Not here. We need at least ASOVMS/INGRES/TCPware/... for this VMS version.N And this is often a year later (though we now are already up to V7.3 w/ ECOs).  B >Not here.  The datacenter is still on 7.2 and I haven't heard any. >rumblings about moving forward any time soon.  E But maybe you already check V7.2-2 (as it's a minor bugfix upgrade) ?/G Yes it may break things (as every version), but the probability is much B less than with V7.3 and you are back on a supported version. And IC personally like the idea of one upgrade (and say 2 ECOs) instead of- many (say 20) single ECOs.   -- -< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888 < KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:20:16 +1100t> From: "antony wardle" <antony.wardle@noospamm.optusnet.com.au>4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS< Message-ID: <3c7cb5bd$0$16634$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   Ok    : so the millions my company pays for support doesn't count?  : What if you are locked into a version of vms because of an3 application? Im now stuck between a rock and a hardr place.  ; Your approach is the microshoft one, and you aren't helpinga5 things. What does this say about compaqs view of vms?r   antw      @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message+ news:D0Ye8.237$fL6.5571@news.cpqcorp.net...hK > Beyond a certain point, it becomes very costly to debug and fix a problemm inI > an old release.  Prior version support allows you to get the fix if younJ > really need it, and want to pay for the engineering.  If you want normalG > maintenance, then you need to be running a release that is relativelyfJ > current.  Note that we support V7.2-2, and will for some time to come...G > how many years did we keep a V7.1x version current - quite a few.  It  isn't G > like we are obsoleting releases every other day.  V7.2-2 was built totJ > consolidate all the fixes and hardware support in the V7.2 releases, and to@ > *not* force people into upgrading to a new functional release. > J > We *don't* expect people to upgrade immediately, which is why we support thecI > current release, and an earlier release (7.3 and 7.2-2 today).   But we  willE > eventually release a new functional release, and then V7.3x and thef current0) > release will become the supported pair.o >  >dB > "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message8 > news:fe52053.0202261622.4183b2e7@posting.google.com...H > > Anyone else concerned that unless you are running the latest versionF > > of VMS then you are now on Prior version/best endeavor support for
 > > fixes? > >e8 > > What does this say about Compaqs committment to VMS/? > > Lets force everyone to upgrade, doesn't that sound like MS?i > >nC > > We've only recently found out about it, and is seems that prior'C > > version will be for any version of VMS more than 18 months old.iI > > How many people upgrade the minute a new version is out? The hobbiestiH > > probably, but what about the business customers who are running 24*7C > > on critical systems. The upgrade planning can take a few monthsi > > not to mention the testing.a > >i
 > > cheers > > 
 > > antony > >a > >z > > following from:s > >n/ > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/priorsup.htmln > >e > >r > > OpenVMS Version 7.1nJ > > Software support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 and OpenVMS VAX V7.1 will be; > > provided via Prior Version Support Service - SustainingnF > > Software Support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 will be provided via Prior= > > Version Support Service - Best Endeavor (where available)uC > > Contact your Compaq Representative, Customer Support Center, ory' > > contract administrator for details.i! > > Prior Version Support Service  > >sG > > To assure that Compaq customers continue to get support on software A > > after the twelve month period of a new release, the followings9 > > describes the two levels of support that are offered:. > >hA > > Sustaining Support provides a full remedial support includinge; > > escalation to Compaq's engineering groups for problems.b > >f > > Key Features include:i > > 9 > > Ready access to technical experts via phone or e-mailsB > > Online access to tools, technical information, conferences and > > symptom/solution databases# > > Problem Analysis and Resolutione7 > > Test software patches as required to solve problemst > > Critical on-site supportC > > Best Endeavor Support provides operational and remedial support2D > > contingent on available expertise and information. (AvailabilityI > > varies by geography.  Please contact your local Compaq representativep > > for more information.) >  >y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:58:22 +0100p$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS/ Message-ID: <KY2f8.37$eq3.1165@news.get2net.dk>r  L Just curiously, what is the status of 6.2 support on Alpha??  Has it stopped ?w   Dweeb.@ "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message6 news:fe52053.0202261622.4183b2e7@posting.google.com...F > Anyone else concerned that unless you are running the latest versionD > of VMS then you are now on Prior version/best endeavor support for > fixes? >-6 > What does this say about Compaqs committment to VMS/= > Lets force everyone to upgrade, doesn't that sound like MS?0 >0A > We've only recently found out about it, and is seems that prior8A > version will be for any version of VMS more than 18 months old.dG > How many people upgrade the minute a new version is out? The hobbiestOF > probably, but what about the business customers who are running 24*7A > on critical systems. The upgrade planning can take a few months  > not to mention the testing.  >  > cheers >y > antony >e >  > following from:g > - > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/priorsup.htmlr >  >  > OpenVMS Version 7.1rH > Software support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 and OpenVMS VAX V7.1 will be9 > provided via Prior Version Support Service - SustainingrD > Software Support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 will be provided via Prior; > Version Support Service - Best Endeavor (where available)aA > Contact your Compaq Representative, Customer Support Center, orr% > contract administrator for details.i > Prior Version Support Services >sE > To assure that Compaq customers continue to get support on softwarev? > after the twelve month period of a new release, the followingi7 > describes the two levels of support that are offered:  >e? > Sustaining Support provides a full remedial support includingn9 > escalation to Compaq's engineering groups for problems.d >  > Key Features include:e >r7 > Ready access to technical experts via phone or e-mailr@ > Online access to tools, technical information, conferences and > symptom/solution databases! > Problem Analysis and Resolutionw5 > Test software patches as required to solve problemsF > Critical on-site supportA > Best Endeavor Support provides operational and remedial supportsB > contingent on available expertise and information. (AvailabilityG > varies by geography.  Please contact your local Compaq representativeo > for more information.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:05:00 +0100w9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> 4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS' Message-ID: <3C7CBD5C.6862C36A@aaa.com>i  : According to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/priorsup.html :   OpenVMS Version 6.1 >   Software support for OpenVMS V6.1 will be provided via Prior<   Version Support Service  Best Endeavor (where available)  OpenVMS Version 6.2 >   Software Support for OpenVMS V6.2 will be provided via Prior'   Version Support Service  Sustaining e OpenVMS Version 7.0 >   Software support for OpenVMS V7.0 will be provided via Prior<   Version Support Service  Best Endeavor (where available)  OpenVMS Version 7.1 /   Software support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 andg5   OpenVMS VAX V7.1 will be provided via Prior Versiono   Support Service  Sustaining o1   Software Support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 will bea3   provided via Prior Version Support Service  Bestr   Endeavor (where available) o   Jan-Erik Sderholm.o   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > N > Just curiously, what is the status of 6.2 support on Alpha??  Has it stopped > ?  >e   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 03:18:13 -0800 (PST)t. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS@ Message-ID: <20020227111813.40945.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>   Antony    4 Two days ago my OpenVMS 7.2 server crashed by itself5 because a DEC DTM Bugcheck. I have a RWAST problem inh5 my machine and Compaq USA discovered it is a bug, nott0 corrected for 7.2 (no patches available for this	 version).,  ! I must upgrade at least to 7.2-1 a  5 I will do when the users give me time...my machine is7	 24x7 !!!!o   Regards.   FC        1 --- Antony Wardle <antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au>_ wrote:3 > Anyone else concerned that unless you are running; > the latest version/ > of VMS then you are now on Prior version/best  > endeavor support for > fixes? > 6 > What does this say about Compaqs committment to VMS/4 > Lets force everyone to upgrade, doesn't that sound
 > like MS? > 6 > We've only recently found out about it, and is seems > that prior5 > version will be for any version of VMS more than 182
 > months old.t5 > How many people upgrade the minute a new version isI > out? The hobbiest,5 > probably, but what about the business customers whoV > are running 24*76 > on critical systems. The upgrade planning can take a > few months > not to mention the testing.D >  > cheers >  > antony >  >  > following from:n > - > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/priorsup.html  >  >  > OpenVMS Version 7.1 / > Software support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 andi > OpenVMS VAX V7.1 will be. > provided via Prior Version Support Service  > Sustaining1 > Software Support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 will be  > provided via Prior0 > Version Support Service  Best Endeavor (where > available)6 > Contact your Compaq Representative, Customer Support > Center, or% > contract administrator for details.r  > Prior Version Support Service  > 1 > To assure that Compaq customers continue to getd > support on software 5 > after the twelve month period of a new release, the> > following . > describes the two levels of support that are
 > offered: > 5 > Sustaining Support provides a full remedial supporta > includingo/ > escalation to Compaq's engineering groups fore > problems.u >  > Key Features include:  > 0 > Ready access to technical experts via phone or	 > e-mail h0 > Online access to tools, technical information, > conferences and/ > symptom/solution databases" > Problem Analysis and Resolution 6 > Test software patches as required to solve problems  > Critical on-site support o0 > Best Endeavor Support provides operational and > remedial support4 > contingent on available expertise and information. > (AvailabilityD1 > varies by geography.  Please contact your local  > Compaq representativeo > for more information.)     =====f ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilD fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?8 Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:29:13 -0000s! From: "Dave Barr" <dbarr@csc.com>d4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS' Message-ID: <a5ifud$oa3$1@lore.csc.com>   I IMHO, VMS is such a stable OS back through numerous versions that in someFE environments it becomes very difficult to justify the time and effort I involved in performing upgrades. This is a technical advantage of VMS andu6 ranks alongside the light bulb that lasts forever etc.  F However, from a business point of view companies need to stay close toF (spend money with) other OS suppliers due to the constant need for bugI fixes,and upgrades. For some, they need support agreement or contracts to=E even run the software. With VMS, support can be turned off for stableoD environments (may not be a great idea for techies, but very good forL accountants). All this leads to companies who have close relations with someH IT suppliers but not Compaq (for VMS). Guess what happens when companies want to buy more IT!  = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messager% news:a5hnq60iho@enews3.newsguy.com...=6 > Antony Wardle <antony.wardle@optusnet.com.au> wrote:I > > How many people upgrade the minute a new version is out? The hobbiesthH > > probably, but what about the business customers who are running 24*7C > > on critical systems. The upgrade planning can take a few monthss > > not to mention the testing.= > I > Not me.  I'm on V7.2-1H1, and am considering moving to V7.2-2.  I might  moveE > to V7.3-1 when it's released, but I don't see any pressing need to.  >n > Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 05:46:59 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202270546.57e136fe@posting.google.com>   n "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message news:<D0Ye8.237$fL6.5571@news.cpqcorp.net>...N > Beyond a certain point, it becomes very costly to debug and fix a problem inI > an old release.  Prior version support allows you to get the fix if you J > really need it, and want to pay for the engineering.  If you want normalG > maintenance, then you need to be running a release that is relativelymJ > current.  Note that we support V7.2-2, and will for some time to come...M > how many years did we keep a V7.1x version current - quite a few.  It isn't0G > like we are obsoleting releases every other day.  V7.2-2 was built todM > consolidate all the fixes and hardware support in the V7.2 releases, and tot@ > *not* force people into upgrading to a new functional release. > N > We *don't* expect people to upgrade immediately, which is why we support theN > current release, and an earlier release (7.3 and 7.2-2 today).   But we willM > eventually release a new functional release, and then V7.3x and the current ) > release will become the supported pair.= >   G that is not true ... we would like to get the decwindows cert patch foroE 7.1-1H2 and is only available for 7.1-2 ... that is a forced upgrade!o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:46:54 +0000D% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>D4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS8 Message-ID: <mmrp7u4j2mqbpf8dnt3ubbv4sthpo6lge3@4ax.com>  3 On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:20:16 +1100, "antony wardle"T/ <antony.wardle@noospamm.optusnet.com.au> wrote:    >Ok< >N >/; >so the millions my company pays for support doesn't count?>  E Of course it counts but not for VMS. The support money handed over by<@ VMS customers has gone to subsidizing first Unix and then NT forF years. Peter Kastner, Senior Analyst Aberdeen Group, said in this veryB newsgroup that it was an open secret in the industry that customerF support money from VMS goes primarily towards subsidizing other CompaqF products which have no chance of ever providing the same levels of ROI as VMS.n  D In any other industry this would seem to be grounds for legal action against the directors. z  ; >What if you are locked into a version of vms because of an&4 >application? Im now stuck between a rock and a hard >place.1  & Simple, just cough up even more money!   > < >Your approach is the microshoft one, and you aren't helping6 >things. What does this say about compaqs view of vms?  A The more they can squeeze out the better. VMS - Voluntary Milkingc System   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:45:24 -0500r1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>o4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS2 Message-ID: <3C7CFF14.7D33E0E6@firstdbasource.com>  C If you are so interested in OpenVMS continuing with development andTH testing etc... Buy the upgrades.  Keep your system current. If you don'tD Compaq loses money.  They develop new features, fix bugs, etc... whyC should they go to the trouble of "back porting" fixes just for you?r Upgrade.  G As someone who works with a lot of different environments, it  would beeE nice to have customers keep their systems up to date. (Not to mentionsG the fact it would keep those of us who do consulting stay in busniess aIF little longer...)  I recently migrated a VAX to Alpha.  The version ofH VMS on the VAX???... 5.0.0 (1989).  While it ran, it did not help VMS as a whole for the past 13 years.   -- n Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163l7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comRG Sr. Consultant            Is there  such a thing as "registed VMS" user- 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    Antony Wardle wrote: > F > Anyone else concerned that unless you are running the latest versionD > of VMS then you are now on Prior version/best endeavor support for > fixes? > 6 > What does this say about Compaqs committment to VMS/= > Lets force everyone to upgrade, doesn't that sound like MS?s > A > We've only recently found out about it, and is seems that priorlA > version will be for any version of VMS more than 18 months old.aG > How many people upgrade the minute a new version is out? The hobbiestFF > probably, but what about the business customers who are running 24*7A > on critical systems. The upgrade planning can take a few monthsb > not to mention the testing.  >  > cheers >  > antony >  > following from:n > - > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/priorsup.htmly >  > OpenVMS Version 7.1oH > Software support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2 and OpenVMS VAX V7.1 will be9 > provided via Prior Version Support Service  SustainingaD > Software Support for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 will be provided via Prior; > Version Support Service  Best Endeavor (where available)sA > Contact your Compaq Representative, Customer Support Center, ors% > contract administrator for details.  > Prior Version Support Servicer > E > To assure that Compaq customers continue to get support on softwaree? > after the twelve month period of a new release, the followingi7 > describes the two levels of support that are offered:l > ? > Sustaining Support provides a full remedial support includinga9 > escalation to Compaq's engineering groups for problems.n >  > Key Features include:  > 7 > Ready access to technical experts via phone or e-mailt@ > Online access to tools, technical information, conferences and > symptom/solution databases! > Problem Analysis and Resolution 5 > Test software patches as required to solve problems  > Critical on-site supportA > Best Endeavor Support provides operational and remedial supportCB > contingent on available expertise and information. (AvailabilityG > varies by geography.  Please contact your local Compaq representativet > for more information.)   -- e Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163o7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.come Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)t 704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:57:54 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0202271057.50982919@posting.google.com>a  k Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message news:<3C7CFF14.7D33E0E6@firstdbasource.com>...pE > If you are so interested in OpenVMS continuing with development and-J > testing etc... Buy the upgrades.  Keep your system current. If you don'tF > Compaq loses money.  They develop new features, fix bugs, etc... whyE > should they go to the trouble of "back porting" fixes just for you? 
 > Upgrade. > I > As someone who works with a lot of different environments, it  would beaG > nice to have customers keep their systems up to date. (Not to mentioneI > the fact it would keep those of us who do consulting stay in busniess ahH > little longer...)  I recently migrated a VAX to Alpha.  The version ofJ > VMS on the VAX???... 5.0.0 (1989).  While it ran, it did not help VMS as  > a whole for the past 13 years. >  > -- e
 > Regards, > 9 > Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e9 > First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.comcI > Sr. Consultant            Is there  such a thing as "registed VMS" users > 704-947-1089 (Office)r > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)s >   I that is not what IBM does!  It is reasonable to ask that software supportoJ be maintained, as a bronze support contract costs only $700 approx. but toH ask someone like us w/7.1 to upgrade 35 boxes around the country when weK have no need to is "unreasonable"!  If that is how compaq feels then I sure- hope IBM buys VMS!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:04:09 -0500.- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o4 Subject: Re: Compaq adopts microsoft approach to VMS, Message-ID: <3C7D2DA7.B033F951@videotron.ca>  3 is "supporting" older versions really that costly ?   M Does it really mean producing NEW patches ? How about revious version support0I where the product is considered mature but supported ? You have access to F telephone support as well as the inventory of existing patches, bit no. garantees that new patches would be produced ?    J I am currious, Someone still at 5.5-2 for instance and paying for previousH version support. I realise that this means that Compaq must keep a 5-5-2C machine somewhere to be able to support that customers. But from anoM engineering point of view,  do such customers (who would be likely to be veryvK stable) ever require new patches to be written ? Or are they more likely torL buy support as insurance and to have someone answer questions when soemthing( goes wrong and offer an existing patch ?  L In other words, do customers who pay prior version support have a history ofJ finding NEW bugs, or just call because they have found an existing bug for which a patch already exists ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:48:42 -0500-1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>V Subject: Re: corrupt pages2 Message-ID: <3C7D0DEA.1AF24EA9@firstdbasource.com>   Phil Howell wrote: > H > An rmu/backup on one of our databases failed  yesterday with the error > %RMU-E-CORPAGPRES I > I now cannot backup, copy, or repair this database, though I can unloadt	 > tables. N > Is there any way of fixing up this without having to either restore from the > last rmu/backup D > or by unloading all tables and reloading them into a new database? > $rmu/show corrupt_pagesu > showslN > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---iE > * Oracle Rdb V7.0-61                                    27-FEB-2002 
 > 14:26:22.84  > *o > * Dump of Corrupt Page Table0 > *     Database: DISK_PROD1:[MAC.RDB]MACP.RDB;7 > *lN > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---l > % > Entries for storage area RDB$SYSTEMr% > -----------------------------------s >  >     Page 61528. >         - AIJ recovery sequence number is -1$ >         - Live area ID number is 1: >         - Consistency transaction sequence number is 0:0% >         - State of page is: corrupta  H I just noticed.  <- AIJ recovery sequence number is -1 >  This generally7 means that AIJ is not enabled???  If so, you cannot uset( RMU/RESTORE/JUST_PAGE without using AIJ.  D I would create views of all tables since the last known good backup,D RMU/UNLOAD those views, restore the last know good backup and reloadF this the changed data.  basically a poor-mans AIJ.  Then ENABLE AIJ!!!  G (create view tablea_view as select * from tablea where somedatecolumn >i4 cast("<date/time of last good backup>" as date vms);   > N > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---PE > * Oracle Rdb V7.0-61                                    27-FEB-2002n
 > 14:26:22.91  > *o* > * Dump of Storage Area State Information0 > *     Database: DISK_PROD1:[MAC.RDB]MACP.RDB;7 > *oN > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---  > # > All storage areas are consistent.i   -- s Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163e7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.com. Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)  704-236-4377 (Mobile)-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:03:09 -0600i4 From: "Lucas, Edward A (SAIC)" <Edward.Lucas@bp.com> Subject: DFO Issue? Message-ID: <EF1DC894691AD5118AF000508BB85FDE034CC4C7@AMCLVX11>4  ? I am running DFO (Disk File Optimizer) v2.5 on a VAX 6620 V7.1.c  F My production disks are two raid5 sets (HW) (6 - 4GB drives),  5 -4 gb drives shadowed (two volume).v  L DFO is suppose to go out and look at every file in every directory, list the% file and count then defrag the files.1K The problem is that DFO only records from 11 - 119 files.  Hmmmmm, my raid5eL set has over 60000 files but only records 11 -119. (each week its the diff.)    I After the modification to VIRTUALPAGECNT and numerous other modifications F Compaq feels the only fix is to perform a backup and restore and startI fresh.  (Heck a 6 vol. raid5 set should take me about 16 hrs.) The CompaqeL engineers have been working on the problem since November of 2001 and cannot seem to find the problem.     J I have lost all confidence with Compaq.  We have numerous Unix servers, NTJ servers.  This problem has given the VMS world a black eye.  Management isH now considering slowly moving off the VMS platform (One VAX, 2 Alpha's).  F Has anyone experienced any problems with DFO not looking/recording all files.     Edward A. Lucaso  Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator SAIC Phone:  (216) 525-7492 Email:   Lucaea@bp.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:16:29 -0500 > From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> Subject: RE: DFO IssueM Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D0160281C@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>V  ? I have experienced similar on OpenVMS Alpha 7.3, and for me it v; has to do with how badly my disk was fragmented.  I had to a> do a bunch of DEFRAG FILEs to get enough free contiguous space/ such that DFO would then operate automagically.   3 I believe you can get a list of fragments by DEFRAGe: SHOW /VOL/FILES=2.  From this you can pick files to defrag< and hopefully get to a point where DFO will be able to work  again.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 Broadwayn Albany, NY  12204  USAq 518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com   ) I post personal opinion only, and all thes* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).o+ One should also take note of the Electronicl) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, which + imposes civil and criminal liability on anyt( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Lucas, Edward A (SAIC) [mailto:Edward.Lucas@bp.com]c- > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:03 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com= > Subject: DFO Issue >  > A > I am running DFO (Disk File Optimizer) v2.5 on a VAX 6620 V7.1.o > H > My production disks are two raid5 sets (HW) (6 - 4GB drives),  5 -4 gb > drives shadowed (two volume)._ > ; > DFO is suppose to go out and look at every file in every e > directory, list theg' > file and count then defrag the files.-= > The problem is that DFO only records from 11 - 119 files.  v > Hmmmmm, my raid5@ > set has over 60000 files but only records 11 -119. (each week  > its the diff.) >  > > > After the modification to VIRTUALPAGECNT and numerous other  > modificationssH > Compaq feels the only fix is to perform a backup and restore and start; > fresh.  (Heck a 6 vol. raid5 set should take me about 16 n > hrs.) The Compaq? > engineers have been working on the problem since November of f > 2001 and cannott > seem to find the problem.    > < > I have lost all confidence with Compaq.  We have numerous  > Unix servers, NT? > servers.  This problem has given the VMS world a black eye.  s > Management ise? > now considering slowly moving off the VMS platform (One VAX, o
 > 2 Alpha's).  > H > Has anyone experienced any problems with DFO not looking/recording all	 > files.   >  > Edward A. Lucass" > Sr. VAX/VMS System Administrator > SAIC > Phone:  (216) 525-7492 > Email:   Lucaea@bp.com >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:36:54 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: Edit/TPU question....* Message-ID: <3c7ca8b6$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <3C7BF5FC.5A2872F0@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:u >DO SET KEYPAD EDT   or $ DEF EVE$KEYPAD EDTy   -- T< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888e< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:35:38 -0500w; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>a! Subject: Re: Edit/TPU question...a$ Message-ID: <3c7d193c$1@news.si.com>   >I suppose you meane >k1 >$ define tpu$init sys$login:tpu$init.tpu$sectionD  I No, he means what he wrote.  EVE$INIT is a logical checked by TPU when itvJ starts.  By default, EDIT/TPU starts EVE.  See the "OpenVMS User's Manual"G for more information.  The default for the /INITIALIZATION qualifier isa
 EVE$INIT.EVE.e --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com-= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:39:21 -0500e; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>t! Subject: Re: Edit/TPU question...p$ Message-ID: <3c7d1a1a$1@news.si.com>   >and my favorite TPU command >  >DO WHAT  G Which can be abbreviated to just WHAT.  It's short for the command WHATl LINE.  See HELP WHAT in TPU. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.coms= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventh< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:27:57 -0500 / From: Alberto Moreira <junkmail@moreira.mv.com>a& Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls8 Message-ID: <rdqp7u408ish7rimmmmu61alst8971cl33@4ax.com>  $ Bruce Hoult <bruce@hoult.org>  said:  H >In article <name99-2502021512250001@handma2.apple.com>, name99@mac.com  >(Maynard Handley) wrote:t >nL >> Ah, once again the "blindingly fast because of no function call overhead"I >> claim. If you look at any decent RISC machine (like a PPC) there IS noeJ >> function call "overhead". The set of things that are done on a functionJ >> call is exactly the same as the set of things that are done in a set of! >> goto's faking a function call.d > I >This is even more true when you have a compiler that supports tail-call o
 >elimination.   aE Converting a program to tail form is basically a process of recursionrF elimination: replace your calls with gotos by making every recursion aF tail recursion and using the concept of continuation to make sure thatF once you goto a piece of code you never need to come back. It's a coolB way of doing things ! Read, for example, Andrew Appel's "CompilingC with Continuations". The problem is, the compiler has to change the-? user program to do that, maybe pretty deeply, and that can be a0D problem for debuggers. Scheme compilers do that as a matter of fact,F but then, go try to single step through code, on a line by line basis,F and you'll see how hard things can get. Dr. Scheme, for example, has aC pretty good debugger, but once you get out of beginner mode and usemC the language to its fullest, debugging capabilities fast decrease. s  D Also, the semantics of your programming language must be amenable toC tail-form conversion. If the semantics of the language demands thatdF you keep multiply nested stack frames with linkages to both staticallyF and dynamically nested contexts, like Pascal for example, I'm not evenE sure conversion to tail form is feasible. You may also get in troubleiD if your programming language requires a call-by-name semantics, like@ Algol for example. Dynamic binding will also cause grief. ObjectE orientation may require virtual functions and other complex semanticsx: that may not be easily amenable to a tail-form treatment.   A So, yes, there can be such a thing as a procedure call overhead. g     Alberto.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:44:18 +0000 (UTC) / From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> & Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls3 Message-ID: <1014824655.920433@haldjas.folklore.ee>i  = In comp.arch Alberto Moreira <junkmail@moreira.mv.com> wrote: & > Bruce Hoult <bruce@hoult.org>  said: > I >>In article <name99-2502021512250001@handma2.apple.com>, name99@mac.com e >>(Maynard Handley) wrote: >>M >>> Ah, once again the "blindingly fast because of no function call overhead"hJ >>> claim. If you look at any decent RISC machine (like a PPC) there IS noK >>> function call "overhead". The set of things that are done on a functionpK >>> call is exactly the same as the set of things that are done in a set of " >>> goto's faking a function call. >>J >>This is even more true when you have a compiler that supports tail-call  >>elimination. > G > Converting a program to tail form is basically a process of recursioniH > elimination: replace your calls with gotos by making every recursion aH > tail recursion and using the concept of continuation to make sure thatH > once you goto a piece of code you never need to come back. It's a coolD > way of doing things ! Read, for example, Andrew Appel's "CompilingE > with Continuations". The problem is, the compiler has to change thet  @ No, you can in principle apply it to vanilla C - see for example( 	http://www.sics.se/~psm/sparcstack.html  : it just depends on how your architecture looks like, what A assumptions are being made and similar. Also, in many processors,oA there is no such thing as a "procedure call" there are just jumpseC and som conventions on how registers are treated and where you jumpn= to when finished. Which definately allows you to do tail-call < elimination, unles sthe conventions specifcly disallow that.   > 
 > Alberto. >    -- r 	Sandero   +++ Out of cheese error +++-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:58:19 +0100p3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com>t& Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls- Message-ID: <3C7D021B.2EF21467@hda.hydro.com>t   Alberto Moreira wrote:F > Also, the semantics of your programming language must be amenable toE > tail-form conversion. If the semantics of the language demands thatrH > you keep multiply nested stack frames with linkages to both staticallyH > and dynamically nested contexts, like Pascal for example, I'm not evenG > sure conversion to tail form is feasible. You may also get in troubleo  G There's absolutely nothing that stops a Pascal compiler from generatinghF C-style code as long as the source code doesn't use any variables from linked contexts, right?o   Terje  -- u  - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2002 16:19:26 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)& Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls0 Message-ID: <a5j0ue$j1s$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  - In article <3C7D021B.2EF21467@hda.hydro.com>,v5 Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:  |> Alberto Moreira wrote:NI |> > Also, the semantics of your programming language must be amenable to H |> > tail-form conversion. If the semantics of the language demands thatK |> > you keep multiply nested stack frames with linkages to both staticallytK |> > and dynamically nested contexts, like Pascal for example, I'm not even J |> > sure conversion to tail form is feasible. You may also get in trouble |> .J |> There's absolutely nothing that stops a Pascal compiler from generatingI |> C-style code as long as the source code doesn't use any variables from7 |> linked contexts, right?  ? Yes, but that is only one such constraint.  Consider a languagee< with automatic destructors at function return (e.g. alloca).     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:38:49 GMTp' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> & Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls) Message-ID: <3C7D0938.A5925904@yahoo.com>s   Alberto Moreira wrote: >  ... snip ... > F > Also, the semantics of your programming language must be amenable toE > tail-form conversion. If the semantics of the language demands thatuH > you keep multiply nested stack frames with linkages to both staticallyH > and dynamically nested contexts, like Pascal for example, I'm not evenG > sure conversion to tail form is feasible. You may also get in troublesF > if your programming language requires a call-by-name semantics, likeB > Algol for example. Dynamic binding will also cause grief. ObjectG > orientation may require virtual functions and other complex semanticsv; > that may not be easily amenable to a tail-form treatment.   ( In Pascal, I often write something like:  +   FUNCTION doit(what : whatever) : whatnot;e  (     FUNCTION recurse(control : integer);         BEGIN        IF control > 0 THENy/          recurse = what + recurse(control - 1);        ELSE recurse = 0;c
       END;     BEGIN    doit = recurse(what);    END;  < and the inner can be easily recast in terms of an iteration, something like:4        result : integer;        result = 0;      WHILE control > 0 DO BEGINu;         result = result + what; control = control - 1; END;   = Which is especially useful to avoid access problems to what.  ? Notice that the breakup avoids having to redundantly pass what.a  @ The coding is probably nonsense, just something to get the ideas across.    -- e@ Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.l=    (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) 0    mailto:uce@ftc.gov  (for spambots to harvest)   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:39:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: expensive procedure calls3 Message-ID: <BzywhkiN1+UB@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  [ In article <a5j0ue$j1s$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  > / > In article <3C7D021B.2EF21467@hda.hydro.com>, 7 > Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> writes:8 > |> Alberto Moreira wrote:qK > |> > Also, the semantics of your programming language must be amenable toeJ > |> > tail-form conversion. If the semantics of the language demands thatM > |> > you keep multiply nested stack frames with linkages to both statically M > |> > and dynamically nested contexts, like Pascal for example, I'm not even L > |> > sure conversion to tail form is feasible. You may also get in trouble > |> cL > |> There's absolutely nothing that stops a Pascal compiler from generatingK > |> C-style code as long as the source code doesn't use any variables fromt > |> linked contexts, right? > A > Yes, but that is only one such constraint.  Consider a languagek> > with automatic destructors at function return (e.g. alloca).  	 Or Ada95.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:44:10 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>: Subject: Re: Ftp/copy problemg8 Message-ID: <n07p7usgj0l0qb9c57bh20j0009ql0vc5j@4ax.com>  4 On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:28:08 -0600, "Craig A. Berry"3 <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com> wrote:   H >I have heard of similar things before, i.e., something hanging because F >a file long since uploaded from VMS to NT is still open for write or B >locked in some way.  The best NT guy I ever knew told me, when I D >offered to help analyze the situation, "Don't worry about it, it's B >always on the NT side."  Dunno whether he was right, but it says I >something about where to check first.  I believe there are utilities on 5H >the NT resource kit that would allow you to check whether anything has  >the file open, etc.    . Might be worth checking the following command:   W:\>net help fileb The syntax of this command is:     NET FILE [id [/CLOSE]]  ? NET FILE closes a shared file and removes file locks. When usedt withoutrF options, it lists the open files on a server. The listing includes theC identification number assigned to an open file, the pathname of the1 file,h2 the username, and the number of locks on the file.  @ This command works only on computers running the Server service.  1 id      Is the identification number of the file. E /CLOSE  Closes an open file and removes file locks. Type this commanda1         from the server where the file is shared.e  ; NET HELP command | MORE displays Help one screen at a time.    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 11:14:51 -0500& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Ftp/copy problem 1 Message-ID: <a5j0lr$shk$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   4 In article <hhn3vcBlKCf8EwX6@wrightnet.demon.co.uk>, : ...OC : We do a lot of FTP between VMS, UNIX and NT during our overnight  J : processing. We currently have a problem with a file that is pushed from G : UNIX to NT. When the process on the NT server attempts to access the  H : file its gets a "non-exclusive access" error. From the time stamps in H : the log, we know that the UNIX process has dropped the FTP connection H : and has completed completely. We don't get the problem with any other + : files that are sent during the overnight.i : J : It is however the only file that is transmitted to an NT server that is > : processed automatically during the overnight. All the other I : transmissions take place in the middle of the night and wait until the .$ : users get in at 9am to process it. : I : It looks like you've got a similar problem to us. The cause looks like jI : to be the "Billy-Box". If you find the answer before we do, please let G
 : me know. :dH There might be problems with NT FTPD, who knows.  But FTP is not exactlyF well suited for transaction-processing-like applications such as this.J You might want to consider using Kermit instead because (a) it's transportH independent (works on both dialups and network connections; (b) innatelyF scriptable; (c) cross-platform (like FTP); and (d) includes file-levelL transaction-processing capabilities.  See, for example, the discussion here:  ,   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/case10.html   - Frank    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:27:13 -0500a; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>  Subject: Re: Ftp/copy problem $ Message-ID: <3c7d1742$1@news.si.com>  L >Thanks for your comments. I wanted to try a standard approach, however, the* >vms side is not very well defined for me.  J The following command always transfers a file to NT for me and NEVER keeps it locked on the NT side:   % $ copy/ftp/ascii/log/verbose 'file' - <    fsgr03"username password"::"/vol2/project/airbus/sum_pr/" --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com1A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventq< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:05:52 +0100n$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>S Subject: Re: Getting VMS running on alphapc 150 - any help or pointers appreciated.e/ Message-ID: <L33f8.38$eq3.1244@news.get2net.dk>p  F And I could use a new motherboard, mine seems to have stopped booting.  J It gets half way through the NT bootloader sequence and then freezes.  TheL distance travelled in this sequence varies from somewhere in the self tests,K until after the #9 BIOS is loaded.  There seems to be no pattern.  I cannot I determine whether the CPU is bad, the CMOS battery flat, the mother borad- flakey or what.   K Clues would be nice, and a used mother board for the price of postage wouldu be good too.   Dweeb.< "Chris Scheers" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote in message7 news:754a27c1.0202261256.1f1e6c5c@posting.google.com...M? > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in messageA- news:<T3Ce8.168$fL6.4381@news.cpqcorp.net>... 6 > > In article <FjEd8.5$Cz3.130@read2.inet.fi>, "PLZI"/ <janne.peltola@eisikanautaa.sonera.com> writes:  > >n > >aL > >   This system has a SCSI implementation that is exceedingly sensitive toK > >   the length of the SCSI, and to the particular SCSI devices.  You must,I > >   keep the entire (internal) 1742A cable inside the box, use a second.J > >   1740A to get outside the box -- this 1740A is the same as the 1742A,J > >   sans the floppy.  Both the 1742A and the 1740A firmware ROMs must beK > >   at revision "G.1".  (The DEC 2000 series console should display "G.1"dB > >   -- if that is what you have, of course.  Not "G".  Not "H".) >p4 > IIRC, recent versions of VMS require G.2 firmware. >fE > FWIW, the 1st SCSI controller in this machine must be a 1742A.  The E > 2nd, 3rd, etc. SCSI controllers can be either 1740A or 1742A.  If a > > 1742A, there is a jumper that disables the floppy circuitry,& > effectively making the card a 1740A. >v= > I don't remember off hand which jumper, but if you need the"4 > information, send me an eMail and I'll look it up. >aD > BTW: If anyone is trashing a Jensen, I could use the fan that goes > behind the front panel.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:51:51 GMTn1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>mS Subject: Re: Getting VMS running on alphapc 150 - any help or pointers appreciated.s2 Message-ID: <HD4f8.9$26.1090@nasal.pacific.net.au>  0 Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:   [...snip...]  D > BTW: If anyone is trashing a Jensen, I could use the fan that goes > behind the front panel.E  A 	If anyone need Jensen parts, contact me, I have a few here which ) 	are idle. I do not intend to use them...i? 	Any offers are considered, and postage is cheap in US dollars.-  < 	( Also have some other hardware, like a PMAG-C card, etc. )   						Cheers,   Csaba@  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------4E    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogsE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.@I    ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:l   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:55:20 GMTl1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>uS Subject: Re: Getting VMS running on alphapc 150 - any help or pointers appreciated.>2 Message-ID: <YG4f8.10$26.953@nasal.pacific.net.au>  # Dr. Dweeb <Dweeb@nospam.com> wrote: H > And I could use a new motherboard, mine seems to have stopped booting.  L > It gets half way through the NT bootloader sequence and then freezes.  TheN > distance travelled in this sequence varies from somewhere in the self tests,M > until after the #9 BIOS is loaded.  There seems to be no pattern.  I cannotcK > determine whether the CPU is bad, the CMOS battery flat, the mother boradi > flakey or what.t  , 	Contact me, and we could work out a deal... 						     Cheers,   Csaba  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------oE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehoghE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush.nI    ----------------------------------------------------------------------t;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:01:52 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>l( Subject: Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs8 Message-ID: <e08p7u4nuntqe9fgrt6iq82sk9ush1miga@4ax.com>  E On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:07:32 -0800, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>k wrote:    O >> You should have done this years ago when there were still ISVs interested intI >> writing apps for VMS.  Instead you'd charge them more than their app'ss# >> development costs to license it.n >gH >I've got to agree with Brian - this move is at least 10 years too late.J >It's kind of like fumigating your house _after_ it collapses from termite
 >damage...  F It's a positive step  never the less. Well done to Compaq staff who've worked to make this happen.-     -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 07:26:25 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)n( Subject: Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs3 Message-ID: <1xQoUkKqYhDW@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  f In article <%PCe8.172$fL6.4227@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:Z > In article <3C7A8A13.6050207@compaq.com>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@compaq.com> writes: > :h > :PAKGEN Software for ISVsf > :eI > :PAKGEN (which produces LMF PAKs for software) is now available to CSA R > :members upon request. >  > B >   Available on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, on V7.2 and later.    < A note for those who are actually interested in this subject? (as distinguished from those who view it only as another chance &  to complain about past DEQ behavior):  7 	If you have purchased PAKGEN in the past, you may needo4 	to reapply under this program to be able to use the4 	new software on Alpha.  At least in the case of LJK2 	Software (an early PAKGEN user), our existing PAK3 	lacked the Alpha option (it was even issued beforeh2 	Alpha existed).  Since it was an availability PAK2 	rather than an activity PAK it would not be valid/ 	on Alpha.  We got a new PAK under this programh' 	yesterday and it has the Alpha option.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:49:38 GMT- From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGi( Subject: Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs0 Message-ID: <00A0A2FC.8068CED2@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <1xQoUkKqYhDW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:eg >In article <%PCe8.172$fL6.4227@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:e[ >> In article <3C7A8A13.6050207@compaq.com>, Mark Schafer <mark.schafer@compaq.com> writes:  >> : >> :PAKGEN Software for ISVs >> :J >> :PAKGEN (which produces LMF PAKs for software) is now available to CSA  >> :members upon request.2 >>   >> 1C >>   Available on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, on V7.2 and later.  >j >:= >A note for those who are actually interested in this subjecth@ >(as distinguished from those who view it only as another chance' > to complain about past DEQ behavior):l >o8 >	If you have purchased PAKGEN in the past, you may need5 >	to reapply under this program to be able to use the 5 >	new software on Alpha.  At least in the case of LJKt3 >	Software (an early PAKGEN user), our existing PAK 4 >	lacked the Alpha option (it was even issued before3 >	Alpha existed).  Since it was an availability PAKt3 >	rather than an activity PAK it would not be valida0 >	on Alpha.  We got a new PAK under this program( >	yesterday and it has the Alpha option.  C I had no problem getting PAKGEN PAKs to use this new functionality.eC My problem was accessing the docs to learn how to use it.  I've not C heard yet from Compaq, however, another regular reader of c.o.v wasaC able to provide me with the information I needed generate PAKS with$% this new PAKGEN tool (thanks, Dave!).<  B I'm now working on a bit of DCL to create the PAK data and then to2 place it into a nice PostScript form for printing.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            IJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:47:57 -0800a# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ( Subject: RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEENHEDAA.tom@kednos.com>y   once installed	 $ lic gen    and then it is menu driven.f   > -----Original Message-----@ > From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG], > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd* > Subject: Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs >p >n5 > In article <1xQoUkKqYhDW@eisner.encompasserve.org>,e1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:+4 > >In article <%PCe8.172$fL6.4227@news.cpqcorp.net>,6 > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:; > >> In article <3C7A8A13.6050207@compaq.com>, Mark Schafere# > <mark.schafer@compaq.com> writes:  > >> : > >> :PAKGEN Software for ISVs > >> :K > >> :PAKGEN (which produces LMF PAKs for software) is now available to CSAg > >> :members upon request.a > >> > >>E > >>   Available on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, on V7.2 and later.i > >e > >s? > >A note for those who are actually interested in this subjecteB > >(as distinguished from those who view it only as another chance) > > to complain about past DEQ behavior):g > > : > >	If you have purchased PAKGEN in the past, you may need7 > >	to reapply under this program to be able to use theg7 > >	new software on Alpha.  At least in the case of LJK 5 > >	Software (an early PAKGEN user), our existing PAKm6 > >	lacked the Alpha option (it was even issued before5 > >	Alpha existed).  Since it was an availability PAKd5 > >	rather than an activity PAK it would not be valide2 > >	on Alpha.  We got a new PAK under this program* > >	yesterday and it has the Alpha option. >(E > I had no problem getting PAKGEN PAKs to use this new functionality.tE > My problem was accessing the docs to learn how to use it.  I've notmE > heard yet from Compaq, however, another regular reader of c.o.v wasrE > able to provide me with the information I needed generate PAKS with ' > this new PAKGEN tool (thanks, Dave!).c >sD > I'm now working on a bit of DCL to create the PAK data and then to4 > place it into a nice PostScript form for printing. >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >fK >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fierytK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesa >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:19:53 -0500-% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>F( Subject: Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs/ Message-ID: <u7q1path6tdsb2@news.supernews.com>i  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageo+ news:%PCe8.172$fL6.4227@news.cpqcorp.net...c8 > In article <3C7A8A13.6050207@compaq.com>, Mark Schafer! <mark.schafer@compaq.com> writes:d > :r > :PAKGEN Software for ISVse > :aH > :PAKGEN (which produces LMF PAKs for software) is now available to CSA > :members upon request. >m >gB >   Available on OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha, on V7.2 and later. >a  A What about the pak$generate_checksum entry point?  This is in thetF PAK$SHR.EXE sharable image that was provided by the old PAKGEN kit, is' something similar available in VMS 7.2?m   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:37:35 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t( Subject: Re: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs3 Message-ID: <mC2N1QKYoqRZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  W In article <u7q1path6tdsb2@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:s  C > What about the pak$generate_checksum entry point?  This is in therH > PAK$SHR.EXE sharable image that was provided by the old PAKGEN kit, is) > something similar available in VMS 7.2?:  E My presumption would be that only pricing and technology has changed.pA The policy of no public documentation of mechanisms is likely the>? same, so one must get the documentation from CSA and compare itb to the previous documentation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:06:03 GMTa From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGn( Subject: RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs0 Message-ID: <00A0A30F.8F2F845A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEENHEDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  >once installedN
 >$ lic gen >  >and then it is menu driven.   Not on my machine...   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl            oJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesd   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:55:44 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>p( Subject: RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIENPEDAA.tom@kednos.com>t  ) Sorry, I guess I have a different version    > -----Original Message-----@ > From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG], > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:06 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com * > Subject: RE: I: PAKGEN Software for ISVs >c > @ > In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEENHEDAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom" > Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > >once installedn > >$ lic gen > >  > >and then it is menu driven. >- > Not on my machine... >1 > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >-K >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fieryiK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesu >g   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 00:43:44 -0800) From: john@ossc.net (John Gemignani, Jr.)tF Subject: Re: IBM says they have best real time mainframe, where's VMS?< Message-ID: <35b06b78.0202270043.8845237@posting.google.com>  p prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote in message news:<3c7bf2c6.177921277@proxy.news.easynews.com>...C > On 25 Feb 2002 05:36:10 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)i > wrote: > C > [concerning a newspaper article on IT for transaction processing]  > D > >IT managers we spoke to today said that IBM was possibly the only@ > >company to deliver real-time operating systems with real-time > >failover. > ? > As has been already pointed out, this is a curious use of themF > term 'real-time'.  That term usually refers to applications in which9 > non-repeatable events are monitored and acted upon withiD > response times measured in tiny fractions of a second.  Industrial@ > process control and monitoring a nuclear power plant are real-9 > time applications.  Bank transaction processing is not.a  E I believe that their notion of "real time" is simply that you can nowo? be at a screen, type in something, hit ENTER or click-click and(B **POOF** you get an answer.  This is a radical concept compared to6 submitting your deck and picking up your answer later.   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Feb 2002 20:10:44 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)m Subject: Re: If you need PI....h. Message-ID: <QrhEyAJK2AZu@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  W In article <3C7BF74A.780EA20B@Free.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:rQ > I stopped at 9211201831, the list was going through my table to the floor, thenmJ > to the level under, then to the ground floor then to the cellar, then... > 2 > (remember Aliens, when he cut that "beast" leg?) >   L That scene was in the first movie, called Alien (singular).  Aliens (plural)# was the second movie in the series.s   --  O ===============================================================================nM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)2O ===============================================================================t= Society Lady:  Are you familiar with the Great Wall of China?t5        Curly:  No, but I know a big fence in Chicago!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:28:00 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: If you need PI.... ) Message-ID: <3C7CB4B0.AF7EA55D@127.0.0.1>f   JF Mezei wrote:e > N > http://3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592.jp/ > P > I am not sure if the page ever finishes, but it definitely will give you PI to@ > far more precision that even 64 bit Alpha can take :-) :-) :-)  G I wrote a program in BASIC using quad precision to work it out. After 6sH weeks on a VAX 11/750, the sysop, after no movement for the next decimal8 place in precision, stopped my batch job. Pre version 5.  F I have a slide rule that has PI on it, and it fits on my desk... Close7 behind it in the reliability stakes is my Alphastation.Z -- j( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:45:13 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>t Subject: Re: If you need PI....m0 Message-ID: <3C7CE2E9.752F7E4@BlueBubble.UK.Com>   Nic Clews wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:0 > >gP > > http://3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592.jp/ > >hR > > I am not sure if the page ever finishes, but it definitely will give you PI toB > > far more precision that even 64 bit Alpha can take :-) :-) :-) >hI > I wrote a program in BASIC using quad precision to work it out. After 6qJ > weeks on a VAX 11/750, the sysop, after no movement for the next decimal: > place in precision, stopped my batch job. Pre version 5. >tH > I have a slide rule that has PI on it, and it fits on my desk... Close8 > behind it in the reliability stakes is my Alphastation  ? See http://www.mathsoft.com/asolve/plouffe/plouffe.html for the B most astonishing algorithm which can calculate the Nth digit of pi- without having to calculate the previous N-1.n  0 It still flabbergasts me completely to this day.  	 Roy Omond- Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:38:52 +0000.% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o Subject: Re: If you need PI....e8 Message-ID: <rr2q7ukmi42vrbt1pv30fm3uakul7fm7id@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:28:00 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >JF Mezei wrote: >> iO >> http://3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592.jp/o >> eQ >> I am not sure if the page ever finishes, but it definitely will give you PI to A >> far more precision that even 64 bit Alpha can take :-) :-) :-)S >lH >I wrote a program in BASIC using quad precision to work it out. After 6I >weeks on a VAX 11/750, the sysop, after no movement for the next decimal-9 >place in precision, stopped my batch job. Pre version 5.'  E Hah, sounds like my first attempt aged about 15. Except I used Pascal D and wrote arbitrary precision arithmetic routines operating on ASCIIE char string digits. I  remember someone thought I was writing a CobolA program when they saw:  % PROCEDURE DIVISION( etc.. in the code   C The real trick with Pi and "e" is to come up with a Taylor's serieshE (or something like that)  expansion that allows you to calculate eachnF digit sequentially in Base 10 using only integer arithmetic. I used toE have MACRO-10 code to do this. Without digging out Maths text books I E haven't looked at for 20 years I can barely begin to recall how I didfC it. I vaguely remember one of them was relatively obvious (even fortC me) but the other had me scratching my head for days. This was longt, before you could just do a quick web search.  G >I have a slide rule that has PI on it, and it fits on my desk... Closeh8 >behind it in the reliability stakes is my Alphastation.   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Feb 2002 23:00:25 -0800  From: cor.mom@momss.nl (Cor Mom)2 Subject: Re: inter-process communication and timer= Message-ID: <774640de.0202262300.505039cf@posting.google.com>*  
 Hello Marcel,c  ? I have designed and implemented many (synchrone and asynchrone)-E applications that use inter-process communication. You also can thinkT9 about eventflags, mailboxes, AST's, timers, threads, etc.-  D Maybe it's an idea to consult me for an advise or even better, to do5 the job for you. I am also living in the Netherlands.S   Regards,   Cor Momg   "Marcel van der Velden" <Marcel.vanderVelden@atosorigin.com> wrote in message news:<0E16861EE7BCD111BE9400805FE6841F1A80768B@c1s5x001.cor.srvfarm.origin-it.com>...y	 > Hi all,e > I > I want to write an application (using 'C') which has serveral processes C > (executables) using different priorities. These processes have totI > communicate with each other so I must sent messages from one process tol
 > another. > 
 > Question 1:tI > Can anybody tell me which message system I can use (TCP/IP or somethingt> > else)? Which is the fastest? Can anybody sent me an example? > 
 > Question 2:pN > Is there a way to trigger an application with a timer (for example every 200$ > milliseconds)? How must I do that? >  > Hope anyone can help.R > 	 > Thanks,f > Marcel van der VeldenD$ > Marcel.vanderVelden@atosorigin.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:14:39 +0100o$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>2 Subject: Re: inter-process communication and timer1 Message-ID: <Cl2f8.244$fL6.5609@news.cpqcorp.net>E  E "Marcel van der Velden" <Marcel.vanderVelden@atosorigin.com> wrote inr message L news:0E16861EE7BCD111BE9400805FE6841F1A80768B@c1s5x001.cor.srvfarm.origin-it .com...O	 > Hi all,a >nI > I want to write an application (using 'C') which has serveral processessC > (executables) using different priorities. These processes have tocI > communicate with each other so I must sent messages from one process to 
 > another. >u
 > Question 1: I > Can anybody tell me which message system I can use (TCP/IP or somethingA> > else)? Which is the fastest? Can anybody sent me an example? >x
 > Question 2:cJ > Is there a way to trigger an application with a timer (for example every 200a$ > milliseconds)? How must I do that? >i > Hope anyone can help.l > 	 > Thanks,  > Marcel van der Veldeni$ > Marcel.vanderVelden@atosorigin.com >h >p Hello   = You have some programs to test that (mailbox, icc, decnet) at3% http://pi-net.dyndns.org/jfp/english/    Download test_decnet_icc_mbx.zipS ande lockperf.zip and play with it .   Regards>   Grard   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:50:02 GMT( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: Itanium troublesn0 Message-ID: <a5ia4a$n6k$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  + In article <a5hc45$6mr$3@milo.mcs.anl.gov>,q9 Scandora, Anthony \(35048\) <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> wrote::6 >"Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message+ >news:a50roo$7se$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...b >>C >> The Intel IA-64 project no longer attracts the adulation that itnB >> did, even in Wall Street.  My point is that another delay would? >> almost certainly turn the current irrational confidence intoi
 >> disbelief.  > K >Maybe not.  The original Pentium 60/66 was slower than a 486-DX2 66, and I M >never expected better from Itanium.  The Pentium Pro evolved into II and IIIiL >over a long time before the Pentium 4 was finally released.  Pentium 4 willL >be competitive in the server market for as long as it takes to make the new >64 bit chip work.  C As many people have posted, the financiers don't read the technicalAB journals (though they take them) and don't take any notice of suchD things.  What they DO notice, however, is proportion of market shareC and sometimes high-profile schedule or cost overruns - all of whichn: are potentially a big problem if the McKinley slips badly.  H >How severe?  Did any users invest big bucks in Itanium for a production@ >environment and then get surprised upon implementation failure?  G As Bill Todd said, many other computer companies did - BIG bucks.  TheykG were probably expecting some trouble, but not complete failure.  I knowiH of SOME software houses and customers that have got their fingers burnt,D but most just enough to whistle and lick them!  But a good many have@ had to make embarrassing and public withdrawals of promises ....  C >> Several major OEMs have been SERIOUSLY shafted by Intel over thebB >> Itanic (SGI being by far the worst hit, but by no means alone),E >> and I doubt that any of them trust Intel any longer.  Also, havingGD >> been treated like dirt by Intel for so long, they don't have muchF >> loyalty, either.  Another 12 months delay is likely to trigger them7 >> into considering abandoning the IA-64 line entirely.H >.K >For what?  They have to run Windows, which means Pentium 4 at the high end5% >until something better is available.u  E As Bill Todd said, no, they don't.  None of SGI, HP, IBM and NEC wereWB ever planning to on their Itanic ranges which had to be withdrawn.E Only SGI actually managed to deliver ANYTHING, and it certainly won'toC make a profit out of its current systems - they are there as a step3: to the 'real' system (which assumes the McKinley arrives).  B >> That is so.  But most of them (not Compaq) have now resusciatedE >> their own alternative strategies - certainly NEC, HP and SGI have, B >> and IBM never announced the replacement of theirs.  So they nowC >> have a genuine option if the McKinley flops or disappears out ofn? >> sight.  Similarly, the OEMs without their own chips have thesB >> option of AMD's Hammer - or even buying in MIPS, PA-RISC, SPARC >> or POWER4 systems!Q >hL >HP has merely extended the life of PA, as can be done with EV7, for as longL >as it takes for Intel to get the replacement to work.  Would you really buyG >into MIPS?  Is a clandestine port of Windows to SPARC underway?  I wasoF >impressed with Hammer until I found out that there are no plans for aM >Windows 64 port.  Are they going to make it with 64 bit Linux and Windows 32tL >incompatibilty mode?  IBM has chip and marketing talent, but I haven't seenI >them pushing Power yet.  Maybe some day, but until then, Intel is in thegJ >enviable position of having its customers stay right where they are until* >Intel gets their 64 bit products working.  B I suggest that you talk to your colleagues at Argonne who are into, high-end computing.  Most of that is not so.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:01:58 +0100t( From: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles * Message-ID: <mqai5a.74t.ln@tina.mikron.de>   Bill Todd wrote:F > Really?  Do you have a reference we can check to confirm this?  Last@ > I knew, XP code contained some conditionals for x86-64, thoughC > Microsoft has been coy about making any public commitments to thep > platform.s  F Perhaps because they have signed an NDA with Intel about their secret  x86-64 plattform ;-)?1  C Microsoft is not much interested in ISA transitions. Most of their .@ code is simply too ugly to be ported easily. Even if there is a : x86-64 based Windows available, most programs will run in E compatibility mode. And what about those DOS and Win16 programs that   run only in legacy mode?  F It's a bit disapointing for Windows users that - while Hammer will be C the fastest processor to run Windows on - you have to use Linux or eE one of the free BSDs to unleash the full power of the processor. But vC that's not exactly a new situation. When I installed Linux for the bC first time about 8 years ago, I did it exactly because I wanted to  8 have a real 32 bit OS (not just a painful DOS extender).   -- R Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"w http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:38:32 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles C Message-ID: <sj5f8.224495$d34.16436017@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>u  5 "Bernd Paysan" <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote in messageg$ news:mqai5a.74t.ln@tina.mikron.de... > Bill Todd wrote:H > > Really?  Do you have a reference we can check to confirm this?  LastB > > I knew, XP code contained some conditionals for x86-64, thoughE > > Microsoft has been coy about making any public commitments to the.
 > > platform.R >IG > Perhaps because they have signed an NDA with Intel about their secretR > x86-64 plattform ;-)?N >DD > Microsoft is not much interested in ISA transitions. Most of their. > code is simply too ugly to be ported easily.  K But (just as people have been arguing about the VMS port to Itanic) they'vetD already had to do so multiple times (Win64 first to Alpha and now to/ Itanic), so it has become significantly easier.l    Even if there is a ; > x86-64 based Windows available, most programs will run inn > compatibility mode.-  L Exactly.  Because they can do so and still perform just as well as or betterL than they do in their native IA32 environments, which is radically differentG from the case on Itanic (where they must be ported to the native ISA toiJ perform at all well).  Guess which environment the developers of most such% programs will prefer, given a choice.   1  And what about those DOS and Win16 programs thatn > run only in legacy mode?  F Aren't they programs that even 32-bit XP doesn't support anyway?  IIRC@ Microsoft pulled the plug on at least real-mode execution in XP.   >:G > It's a bit disapointing for Windows users that - while Hammer will be D > the fastest processor to run Windows on - you have to use Linux orF > one of the free BSDs to unleash the full power of the processor. ButD > that's not exactly a new situation. When I installed Linux for theD > first time about 8 years ago, I did it exactly because I wanted to: > have a real 32 bit OS (not just a painful DOS extender).  L A sentiment that Microsoft will likely be watching closely.  If Hammer livesI up to its promise of providing exceptional cost/performance running Linux7H (e.g., in low-end-to-mid-range server 'appliances' as well as desktops),K they'll want to be able to compete on that hardware rather than be stuck on @ the still-bloated McKinley and even Madison/Deerfield platforms.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:59:33 +0100 ( From: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles * Message-ID: <m8si5a.791.ln@tina.mikron.de>   Bill Todd wrote:E >> Microsoft is not much interested in ISA transitions. Most of theirs/ >> code is simply too ugly to be ported easily.l > E > But (just as people have been arguing about the VMS port to Itanic)nC > they've already had to do so multiple times (Win64 first to Alphas< > and now to Itanic), so it has become significantly easier.  B It's not just the OS, Microsoft also sells a lot of applications. @ IIRC, one of the main problem with Windows NT on Alpha was that F Microsoft themselves did only port a very limited set of their Office 0 suite, and nothing else. And ISVs did even less.  B At least that's not a problem for the Hammer. If Word is still 32 > bit, everybody can live with that. Word doesn't run stable on , documents much smaller than 4GB, anyway ;-).  3 >  And what about those DOS and Win16 programs thatI >> run only in legacy mode?D > C > Aren't they programs that even 32-bit XP doesn't support anyway? eC > IIRC Microsoft pulled the plug on at least real-mode execution int > XP.1  A But the DOS box (virtual 8086) and the Win16 subsystem are still eD there (at least AFAIK, I don't get that close to Windows XP ;-). Or * have they finally ported Notepad to win32?   -- ) Bernd Paysan7 "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"i http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:53:16 -0600=+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>e Subject: RE: Itanium troubles H Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260A03@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>   > -----Original Message-----? > From: Scandora, Anthony (35048) [mailto:Scandora@cmt.anl.gov]-  H > into MIPS?  Is a clandestine port of Windows to SPARC underway?  I wasG > impressed with Hammer until I found out that there are no plans for a @ > Windows 64 port.  Are they going to make it with 64 bit Linux  > and Windows 32? > incompatibilty mode?  IBM has chip and marketing talent, but s  D Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but I feel like putting my two fractions of currency in here.  J Yes.  64 bit Linux and 32 bit windows "incompatibility mode" will be fine.F Windows users don't really need 64 bits; if they did, they'd be using I something that supported it already.  The average idiot will not know the H difference between 64 bit windows on a 64 bit cpu, and 32 bit windows onF a 64 bit cpu (remember the whole "don't upgrade to windows 95, becauseG version 3.1 runs your apps faster" thing?  It's likely that Hammer will ( run current apps in 32 bit mode faster).  I .. and lastly, who can tell the difference between a 32-bit and a 64-bit s% crash without even a meaningful dump?d   Chrise    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");d 't      ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:15:51 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> Subject: Re: Itanium troubles9C Message-ID: <rn9f8.232019$Re2.17386184@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:... >iE > "Scandora, Anthony (35048)" <Scandora@cmt.anl.gov> wrote in message)' > news:a5hc45$6mr$3@milo.mcs.anl.gov...C   ...q  	 > > I was I > > impressed with Hammer until I found out that there are no plans for am > > Windows 64 port. > H > Really?  Do you have a reference we can check to confirm this?  Last I knew,rK > XP code contained some conditionals for x86-64, though Microsoft has beenl: > coy about making any public commitments to the platform.  J Just stumbled upon the following Tom's Hardware Guide article (following a reference in comp.arch)t  6 http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020227/index.html   which states  K "Tom's Hardware Guide received the opportunity to take a closer look at two-D working test systems - each of which was equipped with the AMD "ClawK Hammer". Suse Linux was installed on one of the PCs, and Windows XP (64-bit % version) was installed on the other.".  I Now, they may of course not have a clue what they're talking about, but I>I have to suspect that having visited AMD while researching the material in2? question they may know more about the situation than Tony does.i   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:53:01 +0100o$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>B Subject: Re: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN/ Message-ID: <Jo6f8.75$eq3.2437@news.get2net.dk>y  J Interesting reading, and if true (and WH claims to have seen the paper) is< surely a severe indictment of Carley's & Curley's integrity.  L The phrase "big swinging dick" and the arrogance always associated with this stature keeps coming to mind.h  K This is a deal for the deal makers, not the stockholders and absolutely NOThG the employees.  There is going to be a bloodbath at CompaQ if this goeswL through, while if it fails, only the idiots at the top will terminated - not a bad thing.   Dweeb.. "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message( news:u66f8.843$Fkh.178@news1.bloor.is... >o< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C7C224A.C95557DE@videotron.ca.... > > Moneyline, towards the end of the program: > >lL > > Walter Hewlett says that if the merger goes ahead, Carly and Curly would > get at+ > > total of $115 million bucks in bonuses.e > >c, > > HP denies this and calls this ludicrous. > >  >e >aJ > Even if the votes on both sides are for the meger to take place, there'sL > going to be a lot of bad blood & mistrust within both organizations at theG > grass-roots level. Lots of people who have the talent and actually doj thingsL > (as opposed to senior executives) will say 'who needs this sh*t', and lookI > to move on to other companies.......not to mention all those people whoe willL > be terminated in a headlong rush to cut costs - in many cases it'll be theH > wrong people terminated simply because their immediate superiors won't haveE > anyone covering their own backs when they try to defend NOT cutting L > somebody. This is a fact after mergers, especuially those intensely fought8 > over, and those that occur in troubled economic times. >i >o? > In this morning's Wall Street Journal........................B >s > Hewlett Says H-P, Compaq CEOs.! > Will Be Overcompensated in Dealt >n% > By PUI-WING TAM and GARY MCWILLIAMSe, > Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL% > Copyright (c) 2002, Dow Jones & Co.  >oD > Walter Hewlett, aiming to disclose what he perceives as one of theJ > underlying motivations behind Hewlett-Packard Co.'s proposed acquisition ofJ > Compaq Computer Corp., said the chief executives of H-P and Compaq stand toG > earn compensation packages that would cost the company more than $115i# > million if the deal goes through.0 > K > Mr. Hewlett, a dissident H-P director who is soliciting proxies to defeatsF > the transaction, said in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Tuesday-G > that the postdeal compensation packages for H-P CEO Carly Fiorina andd CompaqJ > CEO Michael Capellas are "material" information for investors evaluating the L > acquisition. Mr. Hewlett also accused H-P of "attempting to hide the ball"+ > by not disclosing these packages earlier.  >sL > Both H-P and Compaq denied that new postdeal employment contracts had been	 > struck.a >aD > Mr. Hewlett's filing comes less than three weeks before a March 19F > shareholder vote to determine whether the $21.8 billion deal will beG > approved. Both H-P and Mr. Hewlett, the son of H-P co-founder WilliampL > Hewlett, have recently ratcheted up their deal-related activities, sendingC > out shareholder letters, publishing sharp-toned newspaper ads ands
 condemningI > one another for not having the best interests of the Palo Alto, Calif.,a > technology company at heart. >eL > Tuesday, H-P's board also published an open letter to Mr. Hewlett berating0 > him for "strident attacks on H-P and our CEO." >lJ > The flurry of action has intensified as shareholders have started takingL > sides on which way to vote for the deal. Tuesday, Torray Cos., a Bethesda,L > Md., money-management firm that owned 6.5 million H-P shares, or 0.33%, asJ > of the end of the year, said it would vote against the transaction. "TheI > risk-reward relationship of this deal is skewed toward the risk of thist note/ > working," said Douglas Eby, Torray president.u > F > Under the terms of the pay packages, Mr. Hewlett said, Ms. Fiorina'sK > two-year employment contract would provide her with an annual base salaryt ofH > $1.6 million, an annual bonus targeted at $4.8 million and six million stockoK > options with a total estimated current value of $57 million. The value of @ > the options were estimated in materials provided by H-P to the compensationJ > committee, the filing said. A spokesman for Mr. Hewlett said information on> > when these new options could be exercised was not available. >oK > An H-P spokeswoman said Ms. Fiorina's current compensation package, whicheK > has a base annual salary of $1 million and a target annual bonus of $1.25sK > million, is "below market average." Ms. Fiorina didn't receive a bonus insJ > fiscal 2001, because of H-P's financial woes. The spokeswoman added that theuL > stock options of Ms. Fiorina, who has received more than three million H-PI > stock options so far, are all "under water." The spokeswoman called Mr.hI > Hewlett's claims "bizarre" and added, "There are no assurances that shee willE > be awarded as attractive a compensation package after the merger isnI > completed." The spokeswoman declined to comment on the vote decision byo	 > Torray.  >sK > Mr. Capellas's two-year employment contract would generate an annual basepI > salary of $1 million, an annual bonus targeted at $3.8 million and four K > million stock options currently valued at about $38 million, according tosA > Mr. Hewlett's filing. Mr. Capellas received a salary and a loank forgivenessgK > valued at $3.8 million in 2001, plus a 10-year stock-purchase plan valuedE atH > $13.2 million (assuming a 10% appreciation rate). In 2000, he received $29.7 I > million in salary and bonus plus the same stock-purchase plan valued atAG > $24.5 million (assuming the same 10% appreciation rate). Mr. Capellash wouldh+ > be president and chief operating officer.y > L > A Compaq spokesman said, "We've said compensation will be negotiated after  > the [potential sale's] close." >WK > In an interview, Larry Sonsini, H-P's outside lawyer, denied any postdealaJ > employment contracts were agreed upon with Ms. Fiorina and Mr. Capellas.H > While there had been some early discussions, "these were aborted," Mr.H > Sonsini said. "If there are employment agreements in the future, these will- > likely be significantly performance-based."h > K > In his filing, Mr. Hewlett said he learned of the pay packages before theTH > announcement of the acquisition in September because he is a member of H-P'srJ > compensation committee. He said the packages are referenced in documentsJ > such as in the Compaq purchase agreement and in term sheets. Even thoughF > most information discussed at board meetings typically is consideredL > confidential, a spokesman said Mr. Hewlett was advised by his lawyers thatK > the compensation news should be disseminated, because of its relevance tohI > investors. The spokesman added that Mr. Hewlett had previously tried totK > persuade H-P to make the compensation information publicly available, buteJ > had failed. With the vote date nearing, Mr. Hewlett decided to go public3 > with the information Tuesday, his spokesman said.s > C > Several compensation experts were surprised that the postdeal payiL > information, if indeed it had been decided upon, wasn't disclosed earlier.B > "I think very highly of Carly Fiorina, but I'm disappointed this informationlI > wasn't released earlier, because this is surely material," said JeffreygL > Sonnenfeld, associate dean at the Yale School of Management. He added thatK > the total $115 million package is "quite high," noting, "You could buy an 5 > awful lot of fabulous executives with that amount."t > D > Of H-P's denial that new employment contracts exist, Mr. Hewlett's	 spokesman @ > said: "H-P's written record, as well as its filings, speak for themselves." >-? > Late last year, Ms. Fiorina and Mr. Capellas both turned downeI > executive-retention bonuses related to the deal valued at $14.4 millionD andaL > $8 million respectively. The rejection of the retention bonuses was widely0 > interpreted as a gesture of faith in the deal. >PJ > The companies instead agreed to pay out substantial retention bonuses to itsoL > other employees to keep them on if the deal goes through. In all, H-P saidI > it would pay out $337 million to 6,000 employees, with $33.1 million of  thatL > amount going to 10 H-P executives who would remain with the company for atK > least a year after the transaction is completed. Compaq said it would paya asJ > much as $242 million in retention bonuses to several thousand employees. TheW= > company's top seven executives would receive $22.4 million.s >i >n, > ------------------------------------------ > 9 > Another article on the same subject ...................i > 7 > HP, Compaq chiefs may gain huge pay package in mergerh > By PATRICK BRETHOURt! > From Wednesday's Globe and Mailn> > Tuesday, February 26 - Online Edition, Posted at 9:33 PM EST >tH > Dissident director Walter Hewlett dropped a bombshell yesterday in hisH > campaign against the proposed merger of Hewlett-Packard Co. and CompaqL > Computer Corp., revealing that the CEOs of the two companies may receive a= > combined pay package of $117-million (U.S.) over two years.d >bK > Carly Fiorina, HP's chairwoman and chief executive officer, could make as4H > much as $69.8-million in salary, bonuses and stock options under termsK > discussed by HP directors in late September, Mr. Hewlett said in a filingTL > with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission yesterday. And Compaq CEOH > Michael Capellas could make as much as $47.6-million over the two-yearJ > period. For each executive, potential profits from stock options account fort% > the large majority of compensation.  >nJ > And Compaq CEO Michael Capellas could make as much as $47.6-million over thefK > two-year period. For each executive, potential profits from stock optionst1 > account for the large majority of compensation.  >eG > HP of Palo Alto, Calif. and Houston-based Compaq have never disclosedo thoselF > figures in their numerous filings related to the $22-billion merger, instead ? > saying that some compensation deals have yet to be finalized.e >oH > In his filing, Mr. Hewlett said the terms were agreed to in a Sept. 20H > meeting of the compensation committee, but that other directors on theG > committee subsequently said there was no agreement on how the options  grantsK > would be priced. All the proposed compensation figures were then excludede' > from merger filings, the filing said.s >uJ > In a statement, HP said no new employment contracts exist and that earlyK > discussions had been "aborted." The company said Mr. Hewlett had breached J > his fiduciary duties as a director and was engaging in a strategy of "doK > anything, say anything to win." And HP said Mr. Hewlett had supported thewG > decision to delay development of employment contracts until after theo merger
 > had closed.  >uH > Mr. Hewlett's airing of the private deliberations of HP's compensationI > committee - which comes as the company meets today with analysts in New A > York - is extremely unusual, said corporate governance experts.  >aH > "But everything is unusual about the HP deal," said J. Richard Finlay, chairoI > of the Toronto-based Centre for Corporate and Public Governance, addingp that* > he believes Mr. Hewlett acted correctly. > J > Mr. Hewlett has waged an increasingly public campaign against the mergerC > since he announced his opposition in November, meeting with majorkC > shareholders to defeat the deal and battering HP with a flurry of.
 statements > and allegations. >-G > But he is not alone in turning the merger battle into a messy, publice fight.F > In an open letter to Mr. Hewlett dated yesterday, other HP directorsK > criticized his "increasingly strident attacks" and "belligerent" tactics.AK > "You have tried, unsuccessfully, to drive a wedge between our CEO and thel" > board of directors," they wrote. >rI > Ms. Fiorina, who is expected to again make the case to analysts for thelE > controversial merger with Compaq, will now have to contend with thes fallouttK > from Mr. Hewlett's disclosure, as well as news that another institutionalsH > shareholder, Brandes Investment Partners LP, plans to vote against the deal.h >eJ > In a statement, Mr. Hewlett said he decided to release information about theAL > two executives' possible compensation after HP repeatedly refused to do so4 > and pressured him to keep the information private. >oK > He said another motivation is the positive press that Ms. Fiorina and Mr.wJ > Capellas received after they turned down retention bonuses of $8-million and K > $14.4-million respectively in order to avoid the appearance of a conflictc ofJ > interest. In the SEC filing, Mr. Hewlett notes that the pay packages are5 > "far in excess" of the foregone retention payments.e >hL > Bill Mackenzie, president of investor rights advocate Fairvest Corp., saidK > the grants of stock options - six million to Ms. Fiorina and four millionr toJ > Mr. Capellas - are "pretty ridiculous." He pointed out that a $1 gain in HPI > stock would give Ms. Fiorina a $6-million profit when she exercised her G > options, while ordinary investors would benefit much less. "It's more7 > padding at the top," he said.0 >@J > The "total estimated current value" of the stock options account for theI > bulk of the pay package for each executive: $57-million for Ms. Fiorinae and G > $38-million for Mr. Capellas. Mr. Hewlett's representatives could notn= > specify the exercise price used to arrive at those figures.h >gL > HP and Compaq did not respond to inquiries about Mr. Hewlett's filing. ButD > in their latest joint proxy statement, the two companies said thatK > unspecified employment terms that had been discussed will not "serve as a H > benchmark" for future negotiations. In that filing, the companies saidK > employment agreements for executives in the merged company, including Ms.eL > Fiorina and Mr. Capellas, will include salary increases, the potential for aeK > bonus that matches or exceeds that salary, and the grant of stock options(J > that would vest over time and upon the attainment of certain performance > goals. >eH > Copyright  2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. >t >.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:32:58 GMTb# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> > Subject: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN. Message-ID: <u66f8.843$Fkh.178@news1.bloor.is>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C7C224A.C95557DE@videotron.ca..., > Moneyline, towards the end of the program: > J > Walter Hewlett says that if the merger goes ahead, Carly and Curly would get a2) > total of $115 million bucks in bonuses.c > * > HP denies this and calls this ludicrous. >i    H Even if the votes on both sides are for the meger to take place, there'sJ going to be a lot of bad blood & mistrust within both organizations at theL grass-roots level. Lots of people who have the talent and actually do thingsJ (as opposed to senior executives) will say 'who needs this sh*t', and lookL to move on to other companies.......not to mention all those people who willJ be terminated in a headlong rush to cut costs - in many cases it'll be theK wrong people terminated simply because their immediate superiors won't haverC anyone covering their own backs when they try to defend NOT cuttingrJ somebody. This is a fact after mergers, especuially those intensely fought6 over, and those that occur in troubled economic times.    = In this morning's Wall Street Journal........................    Hewlett Says H-P, Compaq CEOs  Will Be Overcompensated in Deal   # By PUI-WING TAM and GARY MCWILLIAMS * Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL# Copyright (c) 2002, Dow Jones & Co.u  B Walter Hewlett, aiming to disclose what he perceives as one of theK underlying motivations behind Hewlett-Packard Co.'s proposed acquisition of K Compaq Computer Corp., said the chief executives of H-P and Compaq stand to E earn compensation packages that would cost the company more than $115d! million if the deal goes through.n  I Mr. Hewlett, a dissident H-P director who is soliciting proxies to defeat,L the transaction, said in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing TuesdayL that the postdeal compensation packages for H-P CEO Carly Fiorina and CompaqL CEO Michael Capellas are "material" information for investors evaluating theJ acquisition. Mr. Hewlett also accused H-P of "attempting to hide the ball") by not disclosing these packages earlier.d  J Both H-P and Compaq denied that new postdeal employment contracts had been struck.l  B Mr. Hewlett's filing comes less than three weeks before a March 19D shareholder vote to determine whether the $21.8 billion deal will beE approved. Both H-P and Mr. Hewlett, the son of H-P co-founder William2J Hewlett, have recently ratcheted up their deal-related activities, sendingL out shareholder letters, publishing sharp-toned newspaper ads and condemningG one another for not having the best interests of the Palo Alto, Calif.,  technology company at heart.  J Tuesday, H-P's board also published an open letter to Mr. Hewlett berating. him for "strident attacks on H-P and our CEO."  H The flurry of action has intensified as shareholders have started takingJ sides on which way to vote for the deal. Tuesday, Torray Cos., a Bethesda,J Md., money-management firm that owned 6.5 million H-P shares, or 0.33%, asH of the end of the year, said it would vote against the transaction. "TheK risk-reward relationship of this deal is skewed toward the risk of this notn- working," said Douglas Eby, Torray president.a  D Under the terms of the pay packages, Mr. Hewlett said, Ms. Fiorina'sL two-year employment contract would provide her with an annual base salary ofL $1.6 million, an annual bonus targeted at $4.8 million and six million stockI options with a total estimated current value of $57 million. The value of.K the options were estimated in materials provided by H-P to the compensation K committee, the filing said. A spokesman for Mr. Hewlett said information onE< when these new options could be exercised was not available.  I An H-P spokeswoman said Ms. Fiorina's current compensation package, whichmI has a base annual salary of $1 million and a target annual bonus of $1.25CI million, is "below market average." Ms. Fiorina didn't receive a bonus innL fiscal 2001, because of H-P's financial woes. The spokeswoman added that theJ stock options of Ms. Fiorina, who has received more than three million H-PG stock options so far, are all "under water." The spokeswoman called Mr. L Hewlett's claims "bizarre" and added, "There are no assurances that she willC be awarded as attractive a compensation package after the merger isaG completed." The spokeswoman declined to comment on the vote decision byM Torray.t  I Mr. Capellas's two-year employment contract would generate an annual base G salary of $1 million, an annual bonus targeted at $3.8 million and fourpI million stock options currently valued at about $38 million, according tosK Mr. Hewlett's filing. Mr. Capellas received a salary and a loan forgiveness L valued at $3.8 million in 2001, plus a 10-year stock-purchase plan valued atL $13.2 million (assuming a 10% appreciation rate). In 2000, he received $29.7G million in salary and bonus plus the same stock-purchase plan valued atoK $24.5 million (assuming the same 10% appreciation rate). Mr. Capellas woulde) be president and chief operating officer.o  J A Compaq spokesman said, "We've said compensation will be negotiated after the [potential sale's] close."  I In an interview, Larry Sonsini, H-P's outside lawyer, denied any postdealtH employment contracts were agreed upon with Ms. Fiorina and Mr. Capellas.F While there had been some early discussions, "these were aborted," Mr.K Sonsini said. "If there are employment agreements in the future, these wille+ likely be significantly performance-based."n  I In his filing, Mr. Hewlett said he learned of the pay packages before thetL announcement of the acquisition in September because he is a member of H-P'sH compensation committee. He said the packages are referenced in documentsH such as in the Compaq purchase agreement and in term sheets. Even thoughD most information discussed at board meetings typically is consideredJ confidential, a spokesman said Mr. Hewlett was advised by his lawyers thatI the compensation news should be disseminated, because of its relevance tooG investors. The spokesman added that Mr. Hewlett had previously tried todI persuade H-P to make the compensation information publicly available, butaH had failed. With the vote date nearing, Mr. Hewlett decided to go public1 with the information Tuesday, his spokesman said.i  A Several compensation experts were surprised that the postdeal payvJ information, if indeed it had been decided upon, wasn't disclosed earlier.L "I think very highly of Carly Fiorina, but I'm disappointed this informationG wasn't released earlier, because this is surely material," said JeffreyfJ Sonnenfeld, associate dean at the Yale School of Management. He added thatI the total $115 million package is "quite high," noting, "You could buy ana3 awful lot of fabulous executives with that amount."i  L Of H-P's denial that new employment contracts exist, Mr. Hewlett's spokesmanK said: "H-P's written record, as well as its filings, speak for themselves."a  = Late last year, Ms. Fiorina and Mr. Capellas both turned downaK executive-retention bonuses related to the deal valued at $14.4 million and3J $8 million respectively. The rejection of the retention bonuses was widely. interpreted as a gesture of faith in the deal.  L The companies instead agreed to pay out substantial retention bonuses to itsJ other employees to keep them on if the deal goes through. In all, H-P saidL it would pay out $337 million to 6,000 employees, with $33.1 million of thatJ amount going to 10 H-P executives who would remain with the company for atL least a year after the transaction is completed. Compaq said it would pay asL much as $242 million in retention bonuses to several thousand employees. The; company's top seven executives would receive $22.4 million.     * ------------------------------------------  7 Another article on the same subject ...................h  5 HP, Compaq chiefs may gain huge pay package in merger" By PATRICK BRETHOUR  From Wednesday's Globe and Mailt< Tuesday, February 26 - Online Edition, Posted at 9:33 PM EST  F Dissident director Walter Hewlett dropped a bombshell yesterday in hisF campaign against the proposed merger of Hewlett-Packard Co. and CompaqJ Computer Corp., revealing that the CEOs of the two companies may receive a; combined pay package of $117-million (U.S.) over two years.c  I Carly Fiorina, HP's chairwoman and chief executive officer, could make asaF much as $69.8-million in salary, bonuses and stock options under termsI discussed by HP directors in late September, Mr. Hewlett said in a filinguJ with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission yesterday. And Compaq CEOF Michael Capellas could make as much as $47.6-million over the two-yearL period. For each executive, potential profits from stock options account for# the large majority of compensation.e  L And Compaq CEO Michael Capellas could make as much as $47.6-million over theI two-year period. For each executive, potential profits from stock optionso/ account for the large majority of compensation.c  K HP of Palo Alto, Calif. and Houston-based Compaq have never disclosed thosehL figures in their numerous filings related to the $22-billion merger, instead= saying that some compensation deals have yet to be finalized.   F In his filing, Mr. Hewlett said the terms were agreed to in a Sept. 20F meeting of the compensation committee, but that other directors on theL committee subsequently said there was no agreement on how the options grantsI would be priced. All the proposed compensation figures were then excludedi% from merger filings, the filing said.e  H In a statement, HP said no new employment contracts exist and that earlyI discussions had been "aborted." The company said Mr. Hewlett had breachediH his fiduciary duties as a director and was engaging in a strategy of "doI anything, say anything to win." And HP said Mr. Hewlett had supported theeL decision to delay development of employment contracts until after the merger had closed.t  F Mr. Hewlett's airing of the private deliberations of HP's compensationG committee - which comes as the company meets today with analysts in Newe? York - is extremely unusual, said corporate governance experts.r  L "But everything is unusual about the HP deal," said J. Richard Finlay, chairL of the Toronto-based Centre for Corporate and Public Governance, adding that( he believes Mr. Hewlett acted correctly.  H Mr. Hewlett has waged an increasingly public campaign against the mergerA since he announced his opposition in November, meeting with majoroL shareholders to defeat the deal and battering HP with a flurry of statements and allegations.  L But he is not alone in turning the merger battle into a messy, public fight.D In an open letter to Mr. Hewlett dated yesterday, other HP directorsI criticized his "increasingly strident attacks" and "belligerent" tactics.pI "You have tried, unsuccessfully, to drive a wedge between our CEO and thei  board of directors," they wrote.  G Ms. Fiorina, who is expected to again make the case to analysts for thedK controversial merger with Compaq, will now have to contend with the falloutbI from Mr. Hewlett's disclosure, as well as news that another institutionaleL shareholder, Brandes Investment Partners LP, plans to vote against the deal.  L In a statement, Mr. Hewlett said he decided to release information about theJ two executives' possible compensation after HP repeatedly refused to do so2 and pressured him to keep the information private.  I He said another motivation is the positive press that Ms. Fiorina and Mr.aL Capellas received after they turned down retention bonuses of $8-million andL $14.4-million respectively in order to avoid the appearance of a conflict ofH interest. In the SEC filing, Mr. Hewlett notes that the pay packages are3 "far in excess" of the foregone retention payments.i  J Bill Mackenzie, president of investor rights advocate Fairvest Corp., saidL the grants of stock options - six million to Ms. Fiorina and four million toK Mr. Capellas - are "pretty ridiculous." He pointed out that a $1 gain in HP,G stock would give Ms. Fiorina a $6-million profit when she exercised her E options, while ordinary investors would benefit much less. "It's moreo padding at the top," he said.   H The "total estimated current value" of the stock options account for theK bulk of the pay package for each executive: $57-million for Ms. Fiorina andaE $38-million for Mr. Capellas. Mr. Hewlett's representatives could notu; specify the exercise price used to arrive at those figures."  J HP and Compaq did not respond to inquiries about Mr. Hewlett's filing. ButB in their latest joint proxy statement, the two companies said thatI unspecified employment terms that had been discussed will not "serve as a F benchmark" for future negotiations. In that filing, the companies saidI employment agreements for executives in the merged company, including Ms. L Fiorina and Mr. Capellas, will include salary increases, the potential for aI bonus that matches or exceeds that salary, and the grant of stock optionsoH that would vest over time and upon the attainment of certain performance goals.  F Copyright  2002 Bell Globemedia Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:40:00 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>rB Subject: Re: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN2 Message-ID: <3C7D0BE0.E62EF649@firstdbasource.com>   John Smith wrote:. >  >Lots of people who have the talent and actually do things (as opposed >to senior executives) will say 'who needs this <censored>, and looki& > to move on to other companies.......  E Not if they actually want to have "a" job, any job...  The market outrF here is brutal.  I am a senior Oracle (on VMS, Unix and NT) as well asF Sys Admin (VMS, Unix, Linux) and I have been looking for over 2 monthsD now.  This makes 5 out of the last 12 looking...  and I am competingH against all the H-1 visa people charging less than 50% of my rates. (andH they were not exhorbident to start with).  I talk to some recruiters whoH get in excess of 200 resumes per opening.  There are some unique skills,G but you also have companies who will take the low bidder.  Yeah, that'siG right.. lets trust our corporate systems to kids who are just now beinghF potty-trained and they wonder why there is so much downtime. <stopping4 here to keep from going down a really long rat-hole> -- . Regards,  7 Michael Austin            Registered Linux User #261163c7 First DBA Source, Inc.    http://www.firstdbasource.coma Sr. Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)s 704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Feb 2002 18:00:37 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)oB Subject: Re: More detailed info- was:Carly and Curly report on CNN' Message-ID: <a5j6s5$qn2$1@joe.rice.edu>   2 Michael Austin (maustin@firstdbasource.com) wrote: :MH : ... I am competing against all the H-1 visa people charging less than A : 50% of my rates. (and they were not exhorbident to start with).t :e Sarcasm Afterburner On:h  @ That just can't be possible - just read Senator Hatch's response about the H-1B law:   ?    http://www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/Library/Politicians/Hatch.htm3)    Utah Senator Orrin Hatch Supports H-1Be  >    "...I assure you that measures are included in the AmericanD    Competitiveness in Twenty-First Century Act to safeguard AmericanC    workers' jobs. For instance, the employer is required to pay thetC    foreign worker as much as other employees in the same job or theaE    current market value. In addition, the employer is only allowed tooF    hire a limited number of foreign workers before they have to attestG    that they are not able to find an American to fill the job. Further,eI    they have to show that they have not laid off any American workers fortK    a period of time both before and after the hiring of foreign workers..."s   Sarcasm Afterburner Off.  7 Here's a report on the INS' handling of the H-1B visas:   +    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/he00157.pdfsB    "H-1B Foreign Workers: Better Controls Needed to Help Employers9    and Protect Workers", GAO/HEHS-00-157, September 2000.m  C Offshore outsourcing is a bigger threat to the near-term employments picture in the U.S.:  8    http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020207S0011-    InformationWeek > Business Applications > vG    Offshore Outsourcing Grows To Global Proportions > February  7, 2002r  I   "The growing demand for inexpensive yet competent programming talent is H    pushing the offshore-outsourcing market beyond its roots in India andA    encouraging U.S. IT service providers to increase their use of     overseas workers..."e  F IT-enabled jobs, such as accounting, credit-card processing, are also  being offshore outsourced.  G Who knows, H-P may move VMS Engineering to Compaq's India division. :-)o  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:51:39 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t' Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$y; Message-ID: <01KES21M52LI8ZL57Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>n  D > And what do you know, Oracle is still in business where as Digital	 > is not.t  I True, but the reason DEC is no longer with us is NOT because they didn't   charge enough!   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 12:02:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)B' Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$ 3 Message-ID: <dUYhhZB2XiLD@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <01KES21M52LI8ZL57Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes: E >> And what do you know, Oracle is still in business where as Digitaln
 >> is not. > K > True, but the reason DEC is no longer with us is NOT because they didn't e > charge enough!   That is hard to prove.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:09:41 GMTs* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$SC Message-ID: <Fh9f8.232011$Re2.17383971@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>o  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:dUYhhZB2XiLD@eisner.encompasserve.org... L > In article <01KES21M52LI8ZL57Q@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig, <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:G > >> And what do you know, Oracle is still in business where as Digitalo > >> is not. > > L > > True, but the reason DEC is no longer with us is NOT because they didn't > > charge enough! >e > That is hard to prove.  K *Any* such thesis, regardless of how plausible and even obvious, is hard tocD *prove*.  But your own (implied) contention is neither plausible nor< obvious, so Phillip's rejoinder (being both) is appropriate.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:19:43 -0800  From: alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.)Y Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization) < Message-ID: <88599d89.0202270919.350c571@posting.google.com>  > I remember when RDB was a Digital product it cost only severalD thousand dollars on a big machine, similar to many layered products.; When Oracle bought RDB the price jumped from about $2K/year 7 maintenance to about $25K/year...sounds like a CA move!     Alano      [ "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> wrote in message news:<nzLe8.80$6l2.2125@news.get2net.dk>...r
 > Clip ... > G > > That is, unless you switch from RDB to mySql, postGress or similar,eJ > > which are open source/GNU based SQL databases on linux/unix. There mayI > > be other similar products for VMS that I am not aware of. Having usedoF > > mySql for example, I have noticed it to be wery similar to Oracle,I > > only that the huge amount of fat it had, has been sliced off and onlytG > > the pure sql server is left. It is small, efficient and easy to usefI > > and supports easily those huge amounts of users. The downside is thatwC > > since it is not commercial per se, you need to purchase supportsG > > separately, but as overall, it is of an excelent value. And you get G > > source code for it so if you feel adventurous and VMS port does notl > > exist, you can make one :O)i > L > MySQL (and I do not know about the others mentioned above) is a trival toyK > database about as far removed from Rdb as a Trabant is from a Ferrari.  InL > would suggest you read the MySQL manual.  It demonstrates clearly that theI > authors do not have a clue about database systems per se, or relationalcL > databases in particular.  It is a glorified file system with a limited SQL  > access facility, nothing more. >  > Dweeb.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:33:00 -0700l% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>lY Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization)tB Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020227102946.00aefb38@raptor.psccos.com>  I In defense of Oracle, remember one thing:  when Rdb was a DEC product, itaL was almost a throw-in; DEC made the money from hardware, the OS and support.H With Oracle, it ONLY has software to sell you (plus support, of course).L So the money from the sale of the big-buck, high-margin hardware and OS thatJ DEC could use to offset the cost of the layered product isn't available to Oracle.e  K Could Oracle charge less?  Who knows?  But I can see why they would have tos+ charge significantly more than DEC used to.l  % At 10:19 AM 2/27/2002, Alan B. wrote:y? >I remember when RDB was a Digital product it cost only severalcE >thousand dollars on a big machine, similar to many layered products.r< >When Oracle bought RDB the price jumped from about $2K/year8 >maintenance to about $25K/year...sounds like a CA move!   ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+.I | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |hI | Principal Engineer            |  "Why should I care about posterity?  |mI | Process Software              |   What's posterity ever done for me?" |mI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |sI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 11:39:54 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nY Subject: Re: Oracle RDB  ABUSIVE PRICE$  was (Re: MPE/iX users form OpenMPE organization)H3 Message-ID: <zN2QG0TJSclz@eisner.encompasserve.org>l  _ In article <88599d89.0202270919.350c571@posting.google.com>, alanb@cloud9.net (Alan B.) writes:r@ > I remember when RDB was a Digital product it cost only severalF > thousand dollars on a big machine, similar to many layered products.= > When Oracle bought RDB the price jumped from about $2K/yearh! > maintenance to about $25K/year.o  B And what do you know, Oracle is still in business where as Digital is not.l   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 17:41:15 -0000= From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]>e$ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ3 Message-ID: <20020227174115.41.qmail@gacracker.org>   C On 26 Feb 2002, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:e2 >William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:D >> Reading Mark Reddings experiences and pondering my own trials andF >> tribulations as a Vax and VMS hobbyist/newby, I got to wondering ifL >> maybe the time isn't ripe for a Hobbyist specific FAQ. While much of the  >eJ >I actually started writing one about a year and a half ago...  It's stillI >got some rough spots and holes, but if someone wants to fill those in I i >wouldn't object :^)   <snip>  @ >7. Where can I get information on porting UNIX apps to OpenVMS?  K David Mathog used to have a document about that on the seqaxp machine. I'vePE retrieved a copy from a web archive and host it at the following URL:r  / http://vmsbox.cjb.net/VMS/UNIX_TO_VMS_NOTES.TXT      Doc. --  6 The bigger the humbug, the better people will like it.K ~ Phineas Taylor Barnum.                              http://vmsbox.cjb.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:39:39 -0500 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>f$ Subject: Re: Proposal - Hobbyist FAQ2 Message-ID: <ER8f8.22393$X2.234053@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messageT& news:a5f10k01eu4@enews3.newsguy.com...3 > William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> wrote:tE > > Reading Mark Reddings experiences and pondering my own trials andeG > > tribulations as a Vax and VMS hobbyist/newby, I got to wondering ifcL > > maybe the time isn't ripe for a Hobbyist specific FAQ. While much of the >dK > I actually started writing one about a year and a half ago...  It's stillnI > got some rough spots and holes, but if someone wants to fill those in Im > wouldn't object :^)n > ...n    *  (sent to the newsgroup and Zane directly)  ( You might want to add in a section like;   Section 1: Hardware - 19. Can I run VMS without additional Hardware I If you have a PC with WIN 2000, WIN XP, Linux or Solaris/I86 then you can A install the Hobbyist version of Charon-VAX (PicoVAX) available at I http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/hobbyist.html. There are also two or,L more other emulators in the works that may also allow you to run VMS without acquiring additional hardware.   --L Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, whoever that may be.H BTW: If anyone knows who that will after 1-APR-2002, please let me know.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:04:59 -0000e= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>e$ Subject: Re: Remote Password changesB Message-ID: <1014804350.14653.0.nnrp-10.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>  $ But you could run DECnet over TCP/IP  8 "Shael Richmond" <ksrich@bellsouth.net> wrote in message' news:3C7C61B3.BB1DD4E2@bellsouth.net...  > Don Sykes wrote: > > D > > You can open a decent link from DCL and run any number of remote  > > commands, like set password. > B > Unfortunately we don't allow DECNET across our WAN, only TCP/IP.H > But this is similar to the one suggestion I got from the Compaq TCP/IP > team.eH > Put a file on each system that takes the old password and new password > as parameters.G > Then issue a RSH command to run the procedure passing both passwords.o >t > Shaelc >o >  > > Example: > >s > > >From local node4 > >         $ open/write    NETFILE   'NODE'"''USER' ''PASSWORD'"::"TASK=NETREMOTE" > > 3 > > where NETREMOTE.COM on your remote machine does,- > >         $ open/write    NETFILE   SYS$NETt > >         $ LOOP:c" > >         $ read  NETFILE DCLCOM > >         'DCLCOM' > >         $ go to loop > >e% > > Then from your local machine do ag2 > >         $ write NETFILE "$ creat password.com", > >         $ write NETFILE "$ set password"* > >         $ write NETFILE "old password"* > >         $ write NETFILE "new password"* > >         $ write NETFILE "new password"$ > >         $ write NETFILE "$ exit" > >         $ close NETFILE  > >  > > Shael Richmond wrote:s > > >aF > > > We are restructuring our security.  I'm looking for a way for myI > > > users to be able to change their password on our development systemsC > > > and then migrate that password change to our 30 remote sites.  > > >yG > > > I've been playing around with RSH and Rlogin but haven't had muchw luck. K > > > I want to use the standard "SET PASSWORD" facility and not go throught > > > authorize. > > >d3 > > > I am running AXP/VMS 7.2-1 and UCX 5.1 eco 3.d > > >  > > > Any suggestions? > > >d
 > > > Thanks,r > > >i > > > Shaelo > >e > > -- > >v > > Have VMS. Will Travel. > > Wire Paladin @alphase.com  > > San Franciscoi >o   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 07:02:33 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s$ Subject: Re: Remote Password changes3 Message-ID: <Pb9OszW5A9YC@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  [ In article <3C7C603B.C94C8C4B@bellsouth.net>, Shael Richmond <ksrich@bellsouth.net> writes:t > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> e^ >> In article <3C7B10EA.5F48CF03@bellsouth.net>, Shael Richmond <ksrich@bellsouth.net> writes:E >> > We are restructuring our security.  I'm looking for a way for my H >> > users to be able to change their password on our development systemB >> > and then migrate that password change to our 30 remote sites. >> i >> > Any suggestions?w >> hD >> Propagating reusable passwords means propagating vulnerabilities. > H > I'm not really interested in security, it's not a concern for me, just > the auditors!e  ( Please pass my remarks along to them :-)  7 > The systems aren't accessable from the outside world.   ? If there is no concern at all about insider attacks, why do youo# bother requiring password changes ?u   ------------------------------   Date: 27 FEB 2002 15:42:06 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)$ Subject: Re: Remote Password changes6 Message-ID: <27FEB02.15420693@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  C In a previous article, Shael Richmond <ksrich@bellsouth.net> wrote:o  B ->We are restructuring our security.  I'm looking for a way for myE ->users to be able to change their password on our development system ? ->and then migrate that password change to our 30 remote sites.t  I Sounds like a job for a central authentication scheme. Too bad we have to 3 wait for it. From slide 15 of the OpenVMS road map:n  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm  C    "In a future release, OpenVMS will provide a new loginout image,0@    which will allow for non-VMS style authentications on OpenVMS    (eg. Radius, Novell, X509)"   --G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisonb2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:28:56 -0500t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l Subject: Revamping of OPCOM ?p, Message-ID: <3C7CA6D6.33BE5F63@videotron.ca>  M Looking at how they implemented the equivalent of OPCOM on the space station,o> I am wondering if it wouldn't be time to revamp OPCOM totally.  L For years now, folks have been asking the question of how an application canH capture OPCOM messages. The solution (to create a phanton session with aW special terminal driver and issue the command REPLY/ENABLE to it) seems very inelegant.e  G Shouldn't there be some easy and "structured" way for an application toqK "subscribe" to OPCOM messages and then receive the messages in a structuredt way ?   F When I look at the caution and warning system they built for the space< station, it makes me realise the potential missed by OPCOM.   J By having a central, but intelligent "hub" for messages, a lot more can beN done. In a cluster, OPCOM already has the central architecture, but is missing the smarts./  C By "growing" OPCOM into a smart "caution and warning" hub, then any3M application could send its error messages to it, and provide a "plug-in" that7M would provide list of errors and how they should be handled. OPCOM would thenfJ also provide plug-ins for notification (email, text to voice, aural tones,L paging, TAP/SMS etc that would provide a common infrastructure that could be> used by any application and help further automate the system).  L I know that some may say that this can be done on a PC attached to OPA0: andD capturing messages. But that just isn't a "VMS" way of doing things.  L And one should be able to define filters that would transform a simple OPCOML message into a REQUEST requiring operator confirmation to ensure operator is aware etc etc.  M And by integrating Mr Vottero's port of the SYSLOG server, you could have anytN machine/application on the net send OPCOM messages to indicate status of their applications etc.r   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 03:11:08 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>! Subject: Re: Revamping of OPCOM ?o@ Message-ID: <20020227111108.51251.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com>  . Should be better if the OPCOM Server becomes a* SMS Server or IM (Instant Message) Server.    1 I will receive SMS messages in my mobile phone orh$ IM messages in my wireless IPaq !!!!  , Like Apple we must "Think Different" :-)))))   REgardsr   FC e2 --- JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:3 > Looking at how they implemented the equivalent ofe > OPCOM on the space station,e1 > I am wondering if it wouldn't be time to revamp1 > OPCOM totally. > 4 > For years now, folks have been asking the question > of how an application cant3 > capture OPCOM messages. The solution (to create aW > phanton session with a/ > special terminal driver and issue the command + > REPLY/ENABLE to it) seems very inelegant.r > 3 > Shouldn't there be some easy and "structured" waye > for an application toa4 > "subscribe" to OPCOM messages and then receive the > messages in a structured > way ?  > 4 > When I look at the caution and warning system they > built for the space.6 > station, it makes me realise the potential missed by	 > OPCOM. a > 0 > By having a central, but intelligent "hub" for > messages, a lot more can bem3 > done. In a cluster, OPCOM already has the centralo > architecture, but is missing
 > the smarts.- > . > By "growing" OPCOM into a smart "caution and > warning" hub, then any6 > application could send its error messages to it, and > provide a "plug-in" that5 > would provide list of errors and how they should ber > handled. OPCOM would then 5 > also provide plug-ins for notification (email, texts > to voice, aural tones,1 > paging, TAP/SMS etc that would provide a commoni > infrastructure that could be3 > used by any application and help further automate8 > the system). > 5 > I know that some may say that this can be done on a  > PC attached to OPA0: and5 > capturing messages. But that just isn't a "VMS" wayt > of doing things. > 5 > And one should be able to define filters that wouldy > transform a simple OPCOM+ > message into a REQUEST requiring operatori$ > confirmation to ensure operator is > aware etc etc. > 4 > And by integrating Mr Vottero's port of the SYSLOG > server, you could have any4 > machine/application on the net send OPCOM messages > to indicate status of their2 > applications etc.      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil9 fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?8 Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 00:37:47 -0800, From: tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung)- Subject: Re: select() does not work for pipesu= Message-ID: <f9dc0a5a.0202270037.4efe0ef2@posting.google.com>t  " > > Is there any other workaround? >  > : > A. Use the SYS$QIO version of the TCP/IP calls.  See the- >     documentation for TCP/IP from a link atn& >       http://www.openvms.compaq.com. > A >     Also see the documentation for DECC$GET_SDC in the Compaq C " >     documentation from a link at1 >       http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/n >  > B. (I have not tried this)@ >     Use the DECC$GET_SDC to obtain the OpenVMS channel for theB >     socket.  Then use the SYS$CANCEL to abort the I/O.  This mayA >     cause the I/O the select() call is waiting for to complete,s" >     possibly with an error code. >  > C. (I have not tried this)A >     Instead of a pipe, create and bind a pair of sockets to the 8 >     127.0.0.1 address, and have select() wait on that. > @ >     This also may be usable for applications being ported that? >     expect to be able to use a select() statement to wait fort< >     terminal input.  Use ASTs and the SYS$QIO interface to8 >     obtain the data, send it to the local socket pair. >  > -Johne  > malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq > Personal Opinion Only    Hi John and others,    Thanks for all the input.   F Eventually I have chosen to avoid the OpenVMS specific QIO and AST and% go for option C as suggested by John.l  C I am creating a pair of local sockets (INADDR_LOOPBACK) to simulate F the pipe(). It causes a bit of trouble since a listen port needs to be> created, but then it could be closed once the socket pairs are created.  B The performance shouldn't be the issue, since the socket is simply used for signalling.   Thanks all.f   Tony Cheungt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:10:12 +1100 / From: "Phil Howell" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au>v Subject: Re: SHOW USER/FULLe1 Message-ID: <qE%e8.2107$936.81000@ozemail.com.au>   E "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> wrote in messageeH news:07103702F27FD411ACA30000F808545257CEC5@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au...	 > Hi all,l >o
 > OpenVMS 7.3e > TCP/IP Services 5.1 ECO 3r >e > $ show user/full  userad9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 27-FEB-2002 15:22:55.38-9 >     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 10 >05 >  Username   Node   Process Name    PID     TerminalR3 >  USERA     NODEA  USERA (4)    24814118  TNA6479:fD >             (Host: 10.18.9.70 Locn: PNUM=2:PNAM=                :) >3 >a@ > Does anyone know what the "Locn: PNUM=2:PNAM=       :" means ?   Buffer overflow?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:49:59 +0000n% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>f Subject: Re: SHOW USER/FULLr8 Message-ID: <gdap7u0bfp3rc60tc3bijp42547oo47gfc@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:10:12 +1100, "Phil Howell"o" <phowell@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote:      6 >>  Username   Node   Process Name    PID     Terminal4 >>  USERA     NODEA  USERA (4)    24814118  TNA6479:E >>             (Host: 10.18.9.70 Locn: PNUM=2:PNAM=                :)  >> >>A >> Does anyone know what the "Locn: PNUM=2:PNAM=       :" means ?c >t >Buffer overflow?a  , I see the following from recent DECServer90s  W8 TURQUINC      XXXA2  20C04C7B GLT310  20C04C7B  TNA1664::                              (Host: NNN.254.238.73   Locn: PNUM=5:PNAM=TURQUIN:)-  D I only see this from relatively recent terminal servers. As they are? located over 1000 miles away I can't easily look at them but it  identifies itself as  , Network Access SW V2.3A for DS90M  (BL47-60)  > (c) Copyright 1998, Digital Equipment Corporation - All Rights Reserved  ' Please type HELP if you need assistance    Enter username>r- %TELNET-S-REMCLOSED, Remote connection closed-  B None of our other Emulex or Xyplex servers show this and our local@ genuine DEC terminal servers are ancient 200s which don't do IP.   >e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:00:45 -0000r5 From: "Malcolm" <malcolmix@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>n Subject: Re: SHOW USER/FULLa/ Message-ID: <a5ivnh$vb0$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>e  E "Barratt, Chris (FMC)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au> wrote in messageiH news:07103702F27FD411ACA30000F808545257CEC5@sagemshs001.fmc.sa.gov.au...	 > Hi all,a >l
 > OpenVMS 7.3. > TCP/IP Services 5.1 ECO 3e >i > $ show user/full  useraa9 >       OpenVMS User Processes at 27-FEB-2002 15:22:55.38n9 >     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 1  >- >- >-@ > Does anyone know what the "Locn: PNUM=2:PNAM=       :" means ? >yJ The location information comes from some field defined for that purpose inI the TELNET protocol. If the TELNET client sends the information, UCX will ' display it in place of the port number..  L It is saying that USERA is connected from port number 2 on a terminal serverL of some sort at 10.18.9.70. The "PNAM=          :" is the port name portion.L Obviously port 2 on your server has no name. If you give it a port name, the# port name will appear instead, e.g:   3  Username   Node   Process Name    PID     Terminal 1  USERA     NODEA  USERA (4)    24814118  TNA6479:m:             (Host: 10.18.9.70 Locn: PNUM=2:PNAM=PORT_NAME)     Hope that helps, -Malcolm   -- Malcolm MacArthur   - Subtract nine for e-mail (anti-spam measure).  >a > Thanks in advance, > Chris Barrattt   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:50:58 +0000 (UTC)i8 From: lewis@lumina.removethis.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Sound on alpha/VMS?. Message-ID: <a5j9qi$87l$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  G I see some audio ports in the back of my Alphastation 500au.  Are thesev usuable under VMS at all?-  8 --Keith Lewis              klewis@mitre.remove-thisx.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:21:36 +0000 (UTC)Z& From: davidsen@tmr.com (bill davidsen)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  i: Message-ID: <a5iq1g$1ihi$1@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com>  ' In article <3C72FD44.2058A1ED@ev1.net>,b+ Charles Richmond  <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:o  C | This "come from" constuct that uses the ASSIGNED GOTO variable isiD | useful to create a "simulated" recursive routine. I once wrote oneB | to traverse an AVL tree and print the nodes out in alphabetical A | order. It is blindingly *fast*...because there is *no* functionnC | call overhead. You have to stack and unstack the local variables   | yourself.n  F   And doing this by hand instead of in hardware using registers and anF add to the stack pointer is faster HOW? Unless you are using a totally> brain-dead compiler the overhead of procedure cals is minimal.  G   As an aside, when implementing B (precursor of C) on an Intel 8080 we C passed the first arg or args in registers and always got the returns; value in a register. Overhead was reduced over the original.D implementation by 3:1 or better. SPARC uses register windows to do a9 similar thing, only they have more than two registers ;-)    -- t9 bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> CTO, TMR Associates, Inc-I   Programming without software engineering is like sculpting with a chain<K saw. The very talented can produce a work of art, the mediocre wind up with F a misshapen lump in a pile of rubble, and in neither case does the endC result have more than a passing resemblance to the original intent.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:38:50 GMT ' From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>cY Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise       of  o) Message-ID: <3C7D0B23.D3FE2721@yahoo.com>W   bill davidsen wrote: >  ... snip ... > D > As an aside, when implementing B (precursor of C) on an Intel 8080A > we passed the first arg or args in registers and always got therD > return value in a register. Overhead was reduced over the originalD > implementation by 3:1 or better. SPARC uses register windows to do= > a similar thing, only they have more than two registers ;-)'  ? Which was only possible because B (and early C) couldn't return @ structures, or anything else that didn't fit in a register.  And< from that arose the unclean habit of ignoring return values.   --  @ Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@XXXXworldnet.att.net);    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.w=    (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified) 0    mailto:uce@ftc.gov  (for spambots to harvest)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:24:48 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> 1 Subject: Re: TCPIP throuput for a VAXstation 3100w8 Message-ID: <gd9p7u81bccmtpvrc6083tvvo60qrn3g8d@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:35:35 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:v   >Elliott Roper wrote:n+ >> it with FTP from my Mac at 340KBytes/sec C >> OSU serves it back to the Mac at speeds varying from 89KB/sec tol+ >> 30KB/sec for reasons I don't understand.a >tG >Yeah I had a feeling it was the web server that was eating up a lot ofhM >resources. You'd think that once it has begun to spew the contents of a file M >that it wouldjust copy it out very efficiently, but perhaps there are issues-? >with the cache since the cache can't cop with such a big file.   C WMP would start buffering - not terminate play - if it was a simpleF! issue of too slow transfer speed.l -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:23:27 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i1 Subject: Re: TCPIP throuput for a VAXstation 3100h8 Message-ID: <639p7ugopgp96rphh2vqe2l02ip0rs8rsr@4ax.com>  , On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:29:32 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:r   >eN >Seemed to work with the version 7 of the window media player. I tend to avoid6 >that software and prefer real audio out of principle.  F In your previous post you said the audio worked but not the video withF the previous version of WMP. This is symptomatic of the codec problem.@ The audio codec is 'standard' but not the high compression videoA codec. If you want I'll ask someone here more familiar with mediau! codecs to email you with details.   C I'm also told you will need at least a 500Mhz Pentium to replay ande possibly higher.     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:04:51 -0500w; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>F Subject: Re: unzip$ Message-ID: <3c7d2014$1@news.si.com>  @ >Is unzip a part of windows, or is it something you have to buy?  J Depends.  Winzip is certainly commercial, but find a freeware zip/unzip at http://www.info-zip.org/ . --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevente< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:29:18 -0000p, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>. Subject: Re: vax/vms documentation - psi / x291 Message-ID: <PF1f8.242$fL6.5405@news.cpqcorp.net>   6 "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote in message  news:3C7C194D.6010905@iee.org... > pat saunders wrote:a >oI > >   Does anyone know where to find online documentation about PSI / x29- > > configuration E.Ge > >   VAX PSI MANAGEMENT GUIDE,r >  >M, > You can find a smidgen of Phase V info at: >v >iL http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6499/6499pro_contents_003.html#to c_appendix_h > 0 > but the manuals you really want are not there. >w. > Similarly the Phase IV manuals are not there& > and have probably never been online.  I As Pat specified VAX, and the VAX PSI product was retired before Phase V, F sure as eggs is eggs the Phase V info won't be much (if any) help. AndJ Antonio's last sentence may well be right: the Bookreader program, and OLDK (Online Documentation) - precursor of the revolutionarily-named ODL (Onlineo@ Documentation Library) - started in the late '80s or early '90s.  L But I left the group that produced the VAX PSI docset at that time, so can'tG be sure. It'd be worth a try though, if you can, to look for a very old J ConOLD disk on the off-chance of finding something.  In the VAX PSI docsetD there used to be a book with "X.29" in the title, but in the presentL Management Guide there's just one small sub-section - and I shan't repeat itH here because the Alpha implementation is entirely different (I think theK Australian group that 'ported' it started by throwing out nearly all of theCJ original code, produced by the European Network Engineering group based in	 Reading).e   ba   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:14:23 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r. Subject: Re: vax/vms documentation - psi / x298 Message-ID: <0epp7ucgiq9hds4emoqigm275ubesp3bi9@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:29:18 -0000, "Bob Knowles"d <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote:     J >As Pat specified VAX, and the VAX PSI product was retired before Phase V,G >sure as eggs is eggs the Phase V info won't be much (if any) help. And   F Is that strictly true? I well recall spending days on the phone to theB UK CSC trying to get X25 working under VAX/VMS 5.5 with DECNET VAX? Extensions (Phase V) talking to a Phase V DEMSA. Got it working-B eventually after multiple patch kits and CSC supplied workarounds.  C But, more relevantly, I also recall we switched a number of VAX/VMS F 5.4-2 systems (VAX PSI) Access nodes to use the Phase V DEMSA after we7 finally got it all working - so the two could co-exist.   E If the systems are in this config then the Phase V docs could well beeC of use in troubleshooting. There wasn't enough info in the originalt
 post to know.n     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:35:32 -0000k, From: "Bob Knowles" <bob.knowles@compaq.com>. Subject: Re: vax/vms documentation - psi / x291 Message-ID: <pV7f8.259$fL6.5523@news.cpqcorp.net>l  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:0epp7ucgiq9hds4emoqigm275ubesp3bi9@4ax.com...3 > On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:29:18 -0000, "Bob Knowles"s! > <bob.knowles@compaq.com> wrote:e >n >sL > >As Pat specified VAX, and the VAX PSI product was retired before Phase V,I > >sure as eggs is eggs the Phase V info won't be much (if any) help. Andb >i > Is that strictly true?  J Nope. I checked the dates on the Alpha docs, and there was an overlap of 2
 or 3 yearsK between the end of Reading's development of VAX PSI and the availability ofeK the Alpha product, so Pat may well be running the old product over Phase V.e   bu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:29:55 +0100 1 From: "Tomasz Dryjanski" <tdryjanski@hotmail.com>  Subject: Very slow ftp. Message-ID: <a5in0u$20qb$1@news2.ipartners.pl>  I I observe a very slow ftp transfer on my system (3.76 kB/s, ie. 30 kb/s). F I use an AlphaServer 1000A with DE500 network interface (10 Mb/s set).J I have VMS 7.2-1H1 installed on it with all mandatory patches, and those IL thought could affect ftp performance. I have also tried an insulated networkD (one small hub, one laptop, two new patchcords) to eliminate networkC problems. I have tried another DE500. And there is still no result.   0 Have you got any idea what I could do to fix it?   TIAO   --   T. D.t   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Feb 2002 02:58:57 -0800? From: seos@nuigalway.ie (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Seos_mac_C=E1rthaigh?=)n. Subject: VMS single Login with NDS e-directory= Message-ID: <faf6acd5.0202270258.612db994@posting.google.com>r  @ Is there any VMS single log-in software which will work with NDSD e-directory?  The idea being that users would make a single login to< acess a range of systems, and there would be single password  management across those systems.   thanks =   Seosamh    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:26:24 +0100m$ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch>2 Subject: Re: VMS single Login with NDS e-directory% Message-ID: <3c7cde81$1@news.post.ch>s  L I guess, with kerberos V, which is avail on VMS, you could achieve the same.   Jakob-   --I What I publish in this group, is to be understood as my personal opninion(A and must not be interpreted as a official statement of my companyg    ? "Seos mac Crthaigh" <seos@nuigalway.ie> schrieb im Newsbeitrage7 news:faf6acd5.0202270258.612db994@posting.google.com...rB > Is there any VMS single log-in software which will work with NDSF > e-directory?  The idea being that users would make a single login to> > acess a range of systems, and there would be single password" > management across those systems. >p > thanks >s	 > Seosamh/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:56:00 +0300t4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>2 Subject: Re: VMS single Login with NDS e-directory0 Message-ID: <3C7CE570.8A42A23F@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   RADIUS ?     Seos mac Crthaigh wrote:r > B > Is there any VMS single log-in software which will work with NDSF > e-directory?  The idea being that users would make a single login to> > acess a range of systems, and there would be single password" > management across those systems. >  > thanks > 	 > Seosamhs   --   Cheers, F +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .......................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222hE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222hF +http://starlet.deltatel.ru ................. SysMan rides HailStorm +   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.114 ************************