/ INFO-VAX	Thu, 03 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 6       Contents:7 Re: About that net seminar, Alpha to Itanium (30th Nov) > Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the Compaq IT forum B Compaq support for OpenVMS VAX licenses on the CHARON-VAX emulatorF Re: Compaq support for OpenVMS VAX licenses on the CHARON-VAX emulator* Re: Congratulations for the festive season Re: CONV$ not supported? Re: creating a user directory : Re: decnet load/thruput test command (what was it called?): RE: decnet load/thruput test command (what was it called?) EISA conf util for download ? ! RE: EISA conf util for download ? ! Re: EISA conf util for download ? ! Re: EISA conf util for download ? ! RE: EISA conf util for download ?  Re: Emulation... Re: Emulation... RE: Emulation... Re: Emulation... Re: Emulation... Re: Emulation... Re: Emulation... Re: Emulation... RE: Emulation...1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC  Re: Hobbyist licenses. Re: Hobbyist: Phase IV or V?0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds2 JDK 1.3.1 past due (feature not found in the beta)* Re: MicroVAX II, which version of OpenVMS? Of Blimps and Barrage Balloons" Re: Of Blimps and Barrage Balloons, Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!, Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!, Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!, Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up! OpenVMS : PIPE problem OpenVMS : PIPE problem Re: Problem unpacking TSM 
 Re: Rdb ??P Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise ofP Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demisP Re: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise ofP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The    demise ofP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of coP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of coP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( wasRe: The demise of com Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq Re: The demise of compaq/ Re: The Inquirer: Compaq Readying Tru64 Layoffs , Re: The Inquirer: more on OpenVMS's "future"! Re: Too Few Servers opcom message  TT devices missing?  VMS and the Big Dig  Re: VMS and the Big Dig  Re: VMS and the Big Dig P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)P Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) Re: VMS for hobbyists , Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use., Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use., Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use.P Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use. ( was:  VMS as a career move ) moveP Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use. ( was:  VMS as a career move ) move? Re: VMS on more common hardware (was Re: VMS as a career move ) ? RE: VMS on more common hardware (was Re: VMS as a career move )  Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Error Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Error Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Error/ Re: Why did universities abandon VMS for Unix ? P Re: Why did universities abandon VMS for Unix ? ( was Re: VMS on more common harP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise  of compaP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of compa  [DECWarch] New Year update Re: [Q]LAT QIO interface  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:25:00 -05003 From: "Gaitan D'Antoni" <gaitan.dantoni@compaq.com> @ Subject: Re: About that net seminar, Alpha to Itanium (30th Nov)1 Message-ID: <CK_Y7.250$5Y4.4795@news.cpqcorp.net>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C3320FB.FD3836A4@swissonline.delete.ch...  > I > Back on 30th November there was a customers' web seminar about Alpha to C > Itanium.  At the end of the seminar it was indicated that for any E > questions submitted over the web that had not been answers, emailed  > answers would be set.  > 9 > I submitted a question but I've not received any reply.  > 6 > Has anyone received any response from this seminar ? >  > 
 > John McLean   L I've answered about 66% of the questions so far and should be able to finishA the rest by early next week. Sorry I haven't gotten to yours yet.    Gaitan D'Antoni B OpenVMS Technical Architect for Application Development Technology Compaq Computer Corporation $ Email:     Gaitan.Dantoni@compaq.com   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 02 09:27:09 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the + Message-ID: <a11fjn$1s3$1@bob.news.rcn.net>    In article  K <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201021815500.18819-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, /    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote: " >On 2 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:A >>    I don't care what OS you run, nothing "gets between" an add 0 >>    instruction and the CPU that's running it. > > >Ah, the ignorance of youth.  He's never heard of an IBM 1620.   <grin>  Do you think he'll ask?    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:33:56 -0800 * From: James Gessling <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: Compaq IT forum) Message-ID: <3C3479E4.81D08127@yahoo.com>   C I got an invite to a Compaq forum regarding transistion to Itanium.  There is oneA in Pleasanton California (San Francisco area) and one in Bellevue  Washington.  (near Seattle)  D I registered for the one in California (I live nearby)  I thought it would be amusingB to hear what they have to say. It's an all day affair.  If you are interested, here's the link:   6 https://www.showexhibit.com/compaqitforums/default.htm   Jim    p.s.  Yes, VMS is mentioned    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:24:24 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>K Subject: Compaq support for OpenVMS VAX licenses on the CHARON-VAX emulator 1 Message-ID: <IWYY7.244$5Y4.4951@news.cpqcorp.net>   / This will be on the OpenVMS web site this week.    sue   B Compaq Support for OpenVMS VAX Licenses on the CHARON-VAX Emulator  H Software Resources International (SRI) has developed a VAX emulator thatI prolongs the usability of Compaq OpenVMS VAX and MicroVAX applications by H enabling their transfer to new hardware platforms without any conversionI effort. CHARON-VAX emulates a complete MicroVAX system on a Windows NT or G Windows 2000 platform, allowing OpenVMS applications to run unmodified.   G Compaq is providing the following extension licenses for the CHARON-VAX F environment, allowing the OpenVMS VAX operating system and OpenVMS VAXA layered products and licenses to be transferred to the CHARON-VAX  environment.  1  OpenVMS VAX Operating System Extension License:   9 o QM-6KQAA-AA: VAX to CHARON-VAX for OpenVMS Alpha - $500   > o QM-6T7AA-AA: VAX to CHARON-VAX for Windows and Linux - $1000  +  Compaq Layered Product Extension License:   9 o QM-6KRAA-AA: VAX to CHARON-VAX for OpenVMS Alpha - $500   = o QM-6T8AA-AA: VAX to CHARON-VAX for Windows and Linux - $100   C Compaq Services will support the Compaq OpenVMS VAX software on the E CHARON-VAX emulator running on Compaq systems only. Existing software L service contracts are valid on supported OpenVMS VAX applications running onL the emulator. Compaq will fix software problems if they are also seen in the comparable VAX environment.   J The CHARON-VAX emulator is a software product owned, sold, and serviced byJ Software Resources International (SRI). For more information about the SRI+ CHARON-VAX emulator, see their web site at:   - www.charon-vax.com http://www.charon-vax.com/   L Included in the "Compaq Layered Product Extension License" are the followingH products: ACMS, ALL-IN-1, Compaq BASIC, Compaq C, CMS, COBOL, DCE, DCPS,K DECmigrate, DECram, DECwrite, DFS, DQS, DTM, DTR, DECnet-Plus, DECnet Phase L IV, DECwindows Motif, FMS, Forms, Fortran, GKS, LSE, MACRO-64, MAILbus, MMS,I Notes, Pascal, PCA, PHIGS, RMS Journaling, RTR, SLS, SQL, TCP/IP Services H for OpenVMS, VAXcluster, OpenVMS Clusters, Volume Shadowing for OpenVMS,B X.25, X.500. This list of products excludes any products that haveJ third-party obligations that prohibit inclusion in this extension license.      2  2001 Compaq Information Technologies Group, L.P.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:57:44 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) O Subject: Re: Compaq support for OpenVMS VAX licenses on the CHARON-VAX emulator 3 Message-ID: <Lof+2lY98K8D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <IWYY7.244$5Y4.4951@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:1 > This will be on the OpenVMS web site this week.    Thanks for the information Sue.   C Is that layered product extension license a single license to cover A all layered products, or is there a separate license required for $ each layered product on the machine?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 07:52:06 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 3 Subject: Re: Congratulations for the festive season 3 Message-ID: <TyO2RuvFYVki@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <a04nta$mjt$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > L > If everyone was using BLISS then sure there'd be "BLISS for Dummies" books > on the shelves.   F    I wrote a "BLISS for C Programmers" doc as an exercise to make sureG    I knew BLISS.  It's got a few errors in it, but if I change the name E    (e.g. C Programmers eqla Dummies) do you think I could sell a few?    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 10:22:42 -0500 / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) ! Subject: Re: CONV$ not supported? - Message-ID: <$DZCQo+OU8tW@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   . John Reagan <john.reagan(a)compaq.com> writes:& > Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: >>  M >> When did Compaq state that they "won't touch the code because it's too old  >> and scary?"   >  > Yeah, who said that? > I > Now, it isn't a secret that we don't have a dozen high-level engineers  I > assigned solely to CONVSHR just waiting for bugs to arrive, but I'd be  C > disappointed if somebody at Compaq officially said what you said.   L   To echo what John said -- if someone (mistakenly, I believe) says it isn'tN supported, I'd raise the issue of SPD compliance.  Back when I was a customer,> I had success in getting stuff fixed by waving the SPD around.   --  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:01:51 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: creating a user directory3 Message-ID: <k5PQjX1pCAwH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <20011223144623.X1361-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> writes: > 3 > Username: BILL                             Owner: L > Account:                                   UIC:    [1000,1000] ([DEFAULT]) >   E    There's the problem.  YOU ARE DEFAULT.  Your UIC [1000,1000] is in A    the rightslist data base as the identifier DEFAULT.  Use UAF's F    modify/identifier command to put the DEFAULT identifier back to theE    UIC of the DEFAULT account, and add/identifier to create an better     identifier for BILL.   C    Unless, of course, you've changed the DEFAULT account to use UIC ;    [1000,1000], which can't be two things at the same time.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 01:02:41 -0800 < From: labadie_g@decus.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Labadie_G=E9rard?=)C Subject: Re: decnet load/thruput test command (what was it called?) = Message-ID: <b94065a6.0201030102.441415cb@posting.google.com>   ] Eric Taylor <et@rocketship1.com> wrote in message news:<3C33C054.E8025C21@rocketship1.com>...  > Hi:  > : > Some time ago I ran across a decnet command that let you; > send some data for N seconds to some target node and then ; > it would give you a thruput measure. I remember you could @ > give it a record size etc. I think there was some sort of echo5 > program on the remote end to send back the packets.  > A > I just can't recall what that command was. It may not have been D > a decnet command, rather it might have been a separate executable. > 4 > If anyone remembers this one, I could sure use it. >  > thanks > eric May be dtsend, e.g.  $ mc dtsend  data/node=alpha1/stat/speed=xxx  see the doc at  K pi-net.dyndns.org/docs/openvms073/v73/6498/6498pro_004.html#dts_comfiles_ex  search for   3.10.2 dts Command Syntax    Regards    Grard   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:31:28 -0500+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> C Subject: RE: decnet load/thruput test command (what was it called?) T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE7B8@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   re: DECnet phase IV testing ..  ; As David stated, you are likely looking for the DECnet test  sender/receiver utility.  G In case you do not have the hardcopy of the guide that David mentioned,  here is an online pointer:=20    Reference Chapter 4 - H <http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/DECNET_OVM S_NET_UTIL.PDF>   $ (one long url that will likely wrap)   Regards     
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: David Jones [mailto:JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu] Sent: January 3, 2002 12:01 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C Subject: Re: decnet load/thruput test command (what was it called?)     / In message <3C33C054.E8025C21@rocketship1.com>, *   Eric Taylor <et@rocketship1.com> writes:9 >Some time ago I ran across a decnet command that let you : >send some data for N seconds to some target node and then: >it would give you a thruput measure. I remember you could? >give it a record size etc. I think there was some sort of echo 4 >program on the remote end to send back the packets.  B It sounds like you are thinking of the DECnet test sender/receiver? utility, which was described in the "DECnet for OpenVMS Network 
 Management Utilities" manual.   $ run sys$system:dtsend C _Test: data/node=3Dalph3b/size=3D576/seconds=3D20/speed=3D100000000 + %NET-S-NORMAL, normal successful completion    Test Parameters:    Test duration (sec)  20     Target node          "ALPH3B"!    Line speed (baud)    100000000     Message size (bytes) 576    Summary statistics: &    Total messages XMIT  291956  RECV 0!    Total bytes XMIT     168166656      Messages per second  14597.80    Bytes per second     8408332      Line thruput (baud)  67266656    %Line Utilization    67.267      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:  140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     | jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.eduN: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:16:11 +0100X9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o& Subject: EISA conf util for download ?' Message-ID: <3C3475BB.A2B0D51F@aaa.com>e   Hi.t/ Anybody knowing if the "Eisa Config Utility" is . available for download ? My DEC 2000 model 300! sometimes says it's needing it...l   Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:04:19 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>* Subject: RE: EISA conf util for download ?- Message-ID: <0033000046652712000002L022*@MHS>l  ) =0AWow.  How old *is* that puppy, anyway?   6 If it's more than ten years old  :^) , it falls within. the purview of the classiccomputing newsgroup.  % Check out classiccmp.org for details.t   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 10:27 AMwB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& Subject: EISA conf util for download ?     Hi. / Anybody knowing if the "Eisa Config Utility" is . available for download ? My DEC 2000 model 300! sometimes says it's needing it...a   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm=    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:29:34 +0100w9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>t* Subject: Re: EISA conf util for download ?' Message-ID: <3C3494FE.4C8FB038@aaa.com>w  % Well, "old" is relative, isn't it :-)m4 DEC 2000 modell 300, aka DECpc 150, aka "Jensen" was3 one of the first released Alpha boxes. 150Mzh, EISAw3 bus. And definitly newer then some of the VAX boxes : others are discussing here. And it runs VMS 7.3 just fine.  1 Anyway, It's the same EISA config util as used on 5 newer Alpas, such as the AlphaServer 2100 (ok, ok may 9 also fall into the "old" group, but newer then the Jensenh anyway.)  0 I just seem to have lost my copy of this floppy.   Jan-Erik Sderholm   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:n > ( > Wow.  How old *is* that puppy, anyway? > 8 > If it's more than ten years old  :^) , it falls within0 > the purview of the classiccomputing newsgroup. > ' > Check out classiccmp.org for details.  >  > WWWebb   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:34:23 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>(* Subject: Re: EISA conf util for download ?1 Message-ID: <wG0Z7.255$5Y4.5650@news.cpqcorp.net>d  L Actually, it wasn't one of the first, Cobra, Laser and Flamingo all predated it.   I But it was the first design that was targeted at the NT market, and whichmL used a generic PC-like architecture, busses, and junk IO.  It also was whereH "sparse IO" space originated on Alpha (the Turbochannel had a method for/ doing byte enables, which was quite different).r  . It also had the worst memory map of any Alpha.   _Fredv  B Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote in message <3C3494FE.4C8FB038@aaa.com>...& >Well, "old" is relative, isn't it :-)5 >DEC 2000 modell 300, aka DECpc 150, aka "Jensen" was 4 >one of the first released Alpha boxes. 150Mzh, EISA4 >bus. And definitly newer then some of the VAX boxes; >others are discussing here. And it runs VMS 7.3 just fine.  >e2 >Anyway, It's the same EISA config util as used on6 >newer Alpas, such as the AlphaServer 2100 (ok, ok may: >also fall into the "old" group, but newer then the Jensen	 >anyway.)  > 1 >I just seem to have lost my copy of this floppy.M >f >Jan-Erik Sderholm  >  >WILLIAM WEBB wrote: >>) >> Wow.  How old *is* that puppy, anyway?d >>9 >> If it's more than ten years old  :^) , it falls withinM1 >> the purview of the classiccomputing newsgroup.s >>( >> Check out classiccmp.org for details. >>	 >> WWWebbs   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:59:17 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>* Subject: RE: EISA conf util for download ?- Message-ID: <0033000046660489000002L092*@MHS>    =0AThat clarifies things.M   Here's a good place to start.   C http://www4.service.digital.com/support_database/index/epidmstr.htme   HTHt   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETa) Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:32 PMhB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET* Subject: RE: EISA conf util for download ?    % Well, "old" is relative, isn't it :-)U4 DEC 2000 modell 300, aka DECpc 150, aka "Jensen" was3 one of the first released Alpha boxes. 150Mzh, EISAi3 bus. And definitly newer then some of the VAX boxes : others are discussing here. And it runs VMS 7.3 just fine.  1 Anyway, It's the same EISA config util as used onp5 newer Alpas, such as the AlphaServer 2100 (ok, ok may-9 also fall into the "old" group, but newer then the Jensenh anyway.)  0 I just seem to have lost my copy of this floppy.   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:e >e( > Wow.  How old *is* that puppy, anyway? >D8 > If it's more than ten years old  :^) , it falls within0 > the purview of the classiccomputing newsgroup. >s' > Check out classiccmp.org for details.. > 	 > WWWebb=o   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:13:30 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c Subject: Re: Emulation...i3 Message-ID: <Bl2nMEY1GtNH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <VGsV7.30617$Sj1.13613235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:i > L > Hmmm... perhaps the CHARON-VAX folks at SRI can provide a Better Answer to > that question. ;-} >   H    Now there's a thought.  Pick up the Charon-VAX for OpenVMS Alpha, andD    load a copy of Ultrix-32 on it.  Now all you've got to do is find-    someone who still has Ultrix-32 apps.  8-)p      u   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:11:43 -0600-- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)7 Subject: Re: Emulation...o3 Message-ID: <HW9wQvgdyJp$@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  i In article <3C26569C.8675545E@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:0 > $ > It may be a dumb question but .... > B > How difficult would it be to have unix programs execute in a VMSJ > environment ?  If this was possible, even with considerable effort, thenA > suddenly huge number applications could be run on a RAS system.i  ?    The old POSIX kit comes to mind, and the new DII-COE work is2    relevant:  not too hard.'  C    We've ported lots of stuff from UNIX to VMS at the source level,-C    having a Tru64 AME of some kind wouldn't be that hard.  But why?mB    App writers already port from UNIX to UNIX via source.  DII-COE;    will make it easier to port from UNIX to VMS via source.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 06:26:42 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: Emulation...n9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEHMDNAA.tom@kednos.com>o   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]* > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:12 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com: > Subject: Re: Emulation...t >u >dC > In article <3C26569C.8675545E@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean-) > <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:2 > >-& > > It may be a dumb question but .... > >cD > > How difficult would it be to have unix programs execute in a VMSL > > environment ?  If this was possible, even with considerable effort, thenC > > suddenly huge number applications could be run on a RAS system.t >rA >    The old POSIX kit comes to mind, and the new DII-COE work isc >    relevant:  not too hard.l  K Whoever was responsible for killing the Posix effort sure didn't understando thep= market.  Meanwhile emacs 20.x is still not available for VMS.m >iE >    We've ported lots of stuff from UNIX to VMS at the source level,yE >    having a Tru64 AME of some kind wouldn't be that hard.  But why?cD >    App writers already port from UNIX to UNIX via source.  DII-COE= >    will make it easier to port from UNIX to VMS via source.n >    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 14:32:06 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Emulation...y+ Message-ID: <a11q16$1m5$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>X  3 In article <Bl2nMEY1GtNH@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A0  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:x |> In article <VGsV7.30617$Sj1.13613235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: |> > VO |> > Hmmm... perhaps the CHARON-VAX folks at SRI can provide a Better Answer toe |> > that question. ;-}a |> > h |> HK |>    Now there's a thought.  Pick up the Charon-VAX for OpenVMS Alpha, and G |>    load a copy of Ultrix-32 on it.  Now all you've got to do is find 0 |>    someone who still has Ultrix-32 apps.  8-)  I A few minor problems with that.  First, there is no way your are going too( get an Ultrix-32 License out of Compaq.   I Second, most of the desired apps are windowed like Office Suites or othertL graphics stuff.  CHARON-VAX is an MV-II.  Somehow I doubt that they included even QVSS in that emulation.  G Speaking of which, anyone got a couple of M7602-YA modules they want tog get rid of??  :-)L   bill o   -- SJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:38:11 -0500  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> Subject: Re: Emulation...s/ Message-ID: <1020103113105.61316A@Ives.egh.com>i  % On 3 Jan 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:x  5 > In article <Bl2nMEY1GtNH@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o2 >  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:z > |> In article <VGsV7.30617$Sj1.13613235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > |> > sQ > |> > Hmmm... perhaps the CHARON-VAX folks at SRI can provide a Better Answer to  > |> > that question. ;-}Y > |> > w > |> rM > |>    Now there's a thought.  Pick up the Charon-VAX for OpenVMS Alpha, and I > |>    load a copy of Ultrix-32 on it.  Now all you've got to do is findt2 > |>    someone who still has Ultrix-32 apps.  8-) > K > A few minor problems with that.  First, there is no way your are going to * > get an Ultrix-32 License out of Compaq.  > K > Second, most of the desired apps are windowed like Office Suites or otheroN > graphics stuff.  CHARON-VAX is an MV-II.  Somehow I doubt that they included > even QVSS in that emulation. > E Does that matter?  Assuming X, can't you run the app on emulated MVII>1 (client) and display on the host system (server)?   : Or was Ultrix-32 pre-X, and supported only local graphics?  D Does Charon-VAX include DELQA/DEQNA emulation (or some other networkD interface)?  Is there some kind of built-in shortcut so the host canF see Ethernet packets destined to it without them actually going out onG the wire?  If so, it should be pretty fast.  You would need an X-server  package for your host.  I > Speaking of which, anyone got a couple of M7602-YA modules they want toN > get rid of??  :-)e >  > bill Z >    -- u John Santosc Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:59:52 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Emulation...h1 Message-ID: <aa0Z7.253$5Y4.5449@news.cpqcorp.net>   E I believe that SRI toyed with the idea of QDSS or QVSS emulation, butRG decided not to do it... it would have been a lot of work, for very slowyJ graphics.  For X11 you don't need a local display, just set the display to& the host and use DECnet to talk to it.      C John Santos wrote in message <1020103113105.61316A@Ives.egh.com>...a& >On 3 Jan 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote: >f6 >> In article <Bl2nMEY1GtNH@eisner.encompasserve.org>,3 >>  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:.K >> |> In article <VGsV7.30617$Sj1.13613235@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry / C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  >> |> >RH >> |> > Hmmm... perhaps the CHARON-VAX folks at SRI can provide a Better	 Answer to  >> |> > that question. ;-} >> |> >0 >> |>rJ >> |>    Now there's a thought.  Pick up the Charon-VAX for OpenVMS Alpha, andIJ >> |>    load a copy of Ultrix-32 on it.  Now all you've got to do is find3 >> |>    someone who still has Ultrix-32 apps.  8-)e >>L >> A few minor problems with that.  First, there is no way your are going to* >> get an Ultrix-32 License out of Compaq. >>L >> Second, most of the desired apps are windowed like Office Suites or otherF >> graphics stuff.  CHARON-VAX is an MV-II.  Somehow I doubt that they included >> even QVSS in that emulation.r >>F >Does that matter?  Assuming X, can't you run the app on emulated MVII2 >(client) and display on the host system (server)? >-; >Or was Ultrix-32 pre-X, and supported only local graphics?a >_E >Does Charon-VAX include DELQA/DEQNA emulation (or some other networkdE >interface)?  Is there some kind of built-in shortcut so the host can1G >see Ethernet packets destined to it without them actually going out onwH >the wire?  If so, it should be pretty fast.  You would need an X-server >package for your host.o >aJ >> Speaking of which, anyone got a couple of M7602-YA modules they want to >> get rid of??  :-) >> >> bill  >> >u >--s >John Santos >Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.d >781-861-0670 ext 539e >s   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:40:26 -0600e- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n Subject: Re: Emulation... 3 Message-ID: <fb2IlbyBV4jN@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  _ In article <a11q16$1m5$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:a  K > Second, most of the desired apps are windowed like Office Suites or other N > graphics stuff.  CHARON-VAX is an MV-II.  Somehow I doubt that they included > even QVSS in that emulation.  <    IIRC the commercial versions can do better than an MV-II.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:44:02 -0600r- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t Subject: Re: Emulation...a3 Message-ID: <9TvBZVx+1a5a@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  R In article <1020103113105.61316A@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  G > Does that matter?  Assuming X, can't you run the app on emulated MVII 3 > (client) and display on the host system (server)?h > < > Or was Ultrix-32 pre-X, and supported only local graphics?  H    We sure had X on Ultrix-MIPS at the same time Ultrix-32 was shipping.  F > Does Charon-VAX include DELQA/DEQNA emulation (or some other network
 > interface)?   H    The commercial version allows access to the ethernet.  Charon-VAX VMSF    systems have been clustered to "real" VMS systems this way.  It canD    share one NIC with the host if not both are trying to run IP, but:    the host will need a second NIC if both want to run IP.  D    Don't know if there's a shortcut to stay off the wire for packets=    going between the emulator and it's host.  Check with SRI.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:41:26 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: RE: Emulation...e- Message-ID: <0033000046666128000002L082*@MHS>i  3 =0AI had occasion to research this and got an introt9 to somebody with significant resposibilities w/r/t POSIX-p  - He said that it would be a two-stage process:.  * First there would be an updated POSIX kit.8 Following this, the interfaces would be fully integrated
 into OpenVMS.   4 Granted, this was a year ago, but I haven't seen any+ statements to the contrary since that time.3   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ( Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 9:34 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: RE: Emulation...b     > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]* > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 6:12 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn > Subject: Re: Emulation...u >b >)C > In article <3C26569C.8675545E@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean ) > <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:h > >a& > > It may be a dumb question but .... > >.D > > How difficult would it be to have unix programs execute in a VMSH > > environment ?  If this was possible, even with considerable effort,=  thenaC > > suddenly huge number applications could be run on a RAS system.0 >aA >    The old POSIX kit comes to mind, and the new DII-COE work is  >    relevant:  not too hard.o  H Whoever was responsible for killing the Posix effort sure didn't unders= tand then= market.  Meanwhile emacs 20.x is still not available for VMS.  > E >    We've ported lots of stuff from UNIX to VMS at the source level,mE >    having a Tru64 AME of some kind wouldn't be that hard.  But why?5D >    App writers already port from UNIX to UNIX via source.  DII-COE= >    will make it easier to port from UNIX to VMS via source.M >=   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 02 09:34:42 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <a11g1s$1s3$2@bob.news.rcn.net>b   In article aK <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201021812310.18819-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>,d/    Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote: " >On 2 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:E >> > But Macro-10 is such a ......Gee let me think what is the proper  >> > word here...aD >>    Enough to drive you to learn BLISS-10 (as in before BLISS-36). >eG >Only people who can't program in any language would be so stupid as to-, >prefer BLISS over PDP-10 assembly language. >3K >BLISS may be preferable over PDP-11 assembly language.  But on the PDP-10,: >BLISS was a complete waste.  ! And made den mothers very cranky.a   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:44:29 -0000a/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>y: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <u38v2t9524hhf7@corp.supernews.com>s  C In comp.os.vms Christopher Stacy <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US> wrote:eC : I miss file version numbers (ITS, TOPS-20, *VMS*, LispM) on Unix.n> : (Source control systems like CVS serve a different purpose.)  6 Believe it or not, ence you get accustomed to them not, being there, life gets easier, at least IMO.   -- f -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:21:38 -0700e From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>c: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C348512.B8B9593F@srv.net>3   Bob Koehler wrote: >  >  Michael Zarlenga wrote: > >mB > > This 15+yr VMS user who also has 2+yrs of Unix finds Unix muchC > > easier to use for most of the tasks I do.  I really hate to saytA > > that, but its scripting languages are light years beyond DCL.r > G >    So how do I do the following in you favorite shell (yes, I do knowi >    two painfull answers)?j >  >    rename *.a *.be  ! Why don't you show us how to makeh   	rename *.a.part2 *.b.part1d  @ work on VMS?  Because you can't. The file systems are different,< and VMS doesn't allow multiple periods in a file name, while
 UNIX does.  E There are actually many ways to do this using a shell script, but it 'D will require more typing than on VMS.  The UNIX file system does notH consider things after a decimal point to be a separate part of the file C name like VMS does, and thus doesn't have built in rules to change s  individual "pieces" of the name.  A If I wanted to prove the superiority of UNIX in the same fashion, 1 I could ask how would you do the following on VMSo  ! 	mv my_file.one my_file.one.part1   E Answer: You would have to punt.  VMS only allows one decimal point inJE a file name.  You would have to change one of the decimal points into D some other character.  Does this prove UNIX superiority? I doubt it.D You could also play games with the characters UNIX accepts in a file1 name but VMS does not.  It's a stupid comparison.W  E Anyway, this is a rarely needed operation on either system.  The real79 question should be "why do you have to change the names?":D If you are trying to hide the files, why not just put them in a sub 3 directory where you don't have to mangle the names.aD If they have the wrong extension on them, why?  Find the person who : gave them the wrong name in the first place, and beat the . &#^%& out of him.  Maybe he won't do it again.  F Each OS has it's good and bad points. Use whichever one that fits the C task.  Picking one operation to "prove" the superiority of one overSC the other is silly and stupid.  You might just as well say UNIX is U@ better because you can type "who" on it, while VMS forces you toA type the painfully longer "show user".  It's a stupid comparison.r   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 11:38:12 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)I: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <sLDnZGWGGIsy@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  a In article <u38v2t9524hhf7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:kE > In comp.os.vms Christopher Stacy <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US> wrote:pE > : I miss file version numbers (ITS, TOPS-20, *VMS*, LispM) on Unix.n@ > : (Source control systems like CVS serve a different purpose.) > 8 > Believe it or not, ence you get accustomed to them not. > being there, life gets easier, at least IMO. >   ? 	Nah... they are a great convenience.  Besides, disk storage isu@ 	much cheaper, I hardly ever purge.  Databases are version 1, noB 	big deal there.  Versions are a poor man's version control system4 	and to see where I left off the typical command is:  > $ difference/parallel/ignore=(blank,trailing,space) filename.c  = 	And of course there is the old story where the fellow wasn'tg= 	being careful using vi and accidently wrote over the versionoE 	he had been working on all day (yes he should have been more carefulo< 	and yes there are work-arounds... but he wasn't!) of courseA 	I resisted the temptation to point out VMS has versions and thato> 	file he wrote would have just created a new version... but heC 	was VERY angry so I kept my lips shut!  He only lost 4 hours worthC$ 	of work, could have been worse, eh?   				Robl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:41:20 +0000  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC: Message-ID: <OF3969BB69.9488F657-ON00256B36.0060DB9F@btyp>   Kevin said;    ----  ! Why don't you show us how to maket        rename *.a.part2 *.b.part1t  @ work on VMS?  Because you can't. The file systems are different,< and VMS doesn't allow multiple periods in a file name, while
 UNIX does.   ----   Well....  F This IS cheating I know, and doesn't prove anything, but the pedant in me... ;I   ----   $ dir login.com.1E  & Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[BTSYS.SPIRES]   LOGIN.COM;1r   Total of 1 file. $ dir login.com.2   & Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[BTSYS.SPIRES]   LOGIN.COM;2"   Total of 1 file. $ dir login.coma  & Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[BTSYS.SPIRES]  3 LOGIN.COM;3         LOGIN.COM;2         LOGIN.COM;1-   Total of 3 files.e$ $ rename login.com.1 old_login.com.2 $ dir old_login.comu  & Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[BTSYS.SPIRES]   OLD_LOGIN.COM;2:   Total of 1 file. $    ----  J And yes, I KNOW I'll have a problem if I tried it EXACTLY as you said, butE VMS/DCL allows multiple periods, even if not in the way you obviously K intend. And of course they don't show as periods when you do a $ DIRECTORY.V   Steve Si  F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message haseG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,h$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received'K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.i  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.0  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,aD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:22:18 -0600(- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)7: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <fKLJFp5n+ktX@eisner.encompasserve.org>.   In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201021529210.18522-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:# > On 2 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:VH >>    So how do I do the following in you favorite shell (yes, I do know >>    two painfull answers)? >>    rename *.a *.b >  > G > On the other hand, unlike DOS, VMS, or TOPS-10/20, there's hardly anygD > reason to do it on UNIX.  UNIX filenames are not restricted to theE > familiar file.extension form; the "." character is just an ordinaryu > character in a file name.  o  @    Then why do I find it a necessary step a couple times a week?E    Which has to do with doing real work, not with worrying about what $    the components of a filename are.  , > Equally important, subdirectories are much$ > easier to use in UNIX than in VMS   4    Bull.  You're just used to doing it the UNIX way.   >or TOPS-10/20.c      That I can agree with.v  a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:24:00 -0600-- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <5$sAi7FGPAVJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201021812310.18819-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes:# > On 2 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:7E >> > But Macro-10 is such a ......Gee let me think what is the propers >> > word here...>D >>    Enough to drive you to learn BLISS-10 (as in before BLISS-36). > H > Only people who can't program in any language would be so stupid as to- > prefer BLISS over PDP-10 assembly language.h > L > BLISS may be preferable over PDP-11 assembly language.  But on the PDP-10, > BLISS was a complete waste.>  C    Then why is it I could do usefull things in a few lines of BLISSeD    that took all day to program in MACRO-10?  Just what do you think:    drove Bill to invent a System Software language anyhow?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:20:15 -0600f- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <bOuBhxww2IOX@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  a In article <u374kh30tbqc70@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes: ? > In comp.os.vms Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:tC > :> This 15+yr VMS user who also has 2+yrs of Unix finds Unix muchiD > :> easier to use for most of the tasks I do.  I really hate to sayB > :> that, but its scripting languages are light years beyond DCL. > I > :    So how do I do the following in you favorite shell (yes, I do knowc > :    two painfull answers)?- >  > :    rename *.a *.b  >  > for f in *.a > do >     mv $f ${f%a}bo > done >  >  > Do you consider that painful?-  E    Yes.  I also consider the fact that I have to relearn it for every1C    shell I'm forced to use to be painfull.  And I picked it only as E    an example of what's hard to do when the shell insisits on messingp:    with the command line before passing it to the program.    e   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:26:31 -0600o- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <+JMG56PN705v@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  a In article <u38v2t9524hhf7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:rE > In comp.os.vms Christopher Stacy <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US> wrote:vE > : I miss file version numbers (ITS, TOPS-20, *VMS*, LispM) on Unix.5@ > : (Source control systems like CVS serve a different purpose.) > 8 > Believe it or not, ence you get accustomed to them not. > being there, life gets easier, at least IMO.  F    Didn't have them, got them, lost them.  Always prefered having themH    when it was done well.  VMS does them well, RSX is OK, TOPS-20 didn't;    really know what to do with them, MVS makes them a PITA.   G    And the real reason the Solaris file system that supports them neveroF    caught on was because the shell and shell utilities don't know what    to do with them.f   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:28:40 -0600f- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)N: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <aG+zrzJjrdPo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   I In article <3C348512.B8B9593F@srv.net>, Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> writes:t >h!   The file systems are different,l8 > and VMS doesn't allow multiple periods in a file name.  J    Yes it does.  Please catch up to at least only a couple of years out of%    date before posting such nonsense.o      o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:35:40 -0000g/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>t: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <u3993sbg63g16b@corp.supernews.com>   ; In comp.os.vms Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote:b? : 	And of course there is the old story where the fellow wasn't ? : 	being careful using vi and accidently wrote over the versionaG : 	he had been working on all day (yes he should have been more carefull> : 	and yes there are work-arounds... but he wasn't!) of courseC : 	I resisted the temptation to point out VMS has versions and that @ : 	file he wrote would have just created a new version... but heE : 	was VERY angry so I kept my lips shut!  He only lost 4 hours worthr& : 	of work, could have been worse, eh?  : Emacs has built-in version control.  You can keep M oldest? versions and N newest versions - while allowing Emacs to removeI the ones in-between.  < It's actually more powerful than standard version control as found with VMS.r  : Plus, with ksh, you can set noclobber to avoid overwriting files by accident.   -- r -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:46:26 -0600w+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <NgS9poAvIC15@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  a In article <u3993sbg63g16b@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:-= > In comp.os.vms Rob Young <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote:tA > : 	And of course there is the old story where the fellow wasn'tsA > : 	being careful using vi and accidently wrote over the version I > : 	he had been working on all day (yes he should have been more carefult@ > : 	and yes there are work-arounds... but he wasn't!) of courseE > : 	I resisted the temptation to point out VMS has versions and thataB > : 	file he wrote would have just created a new version... but heG > : 	was VERY angry so I kept my lips shut!  He only lost 4 hours worth ( > : 	of work, could have been worse, eh? > < > Emacs has built-in version control.  You can keep M oldestA > versions and N newest versions - while allowing Emacs to removes > the ones in-between. > > > It's actually more powerful than standard version control as > found with VMS.h > < > Plus, with ksh, you can set noclobber to avoid overwriting > files by accident. >   = 	Yep... with vi , you have power vi users that wouldn't touch > 	Emacs with a ten foot pole.  Don't know about noclobber as itC 	was a program being developed and of course was occasionally beinggC 	overwritten.  Problem was of course a $ cp  went to the wrong filed< 	and all was lost.  Never had that problem with VMS as a newF 	file/version is automatically created.  Backup of course would rescueB 	folks for the most cases.  Worst case scenario of course is to beD 	working all day on something and accidently overwrite or delete theB 	wrong file *before* nightly backups and that is what I saw above.   				Rob8   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:29:52 -0600d- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)q Subject: Re: Hobbyist licenses.i3 Message-ID: <azHOOz9wp+ek@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  P In article <3C335D1B.6B3F5FE@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes: > C > Ah.  Somewhat on topic, I was somewhat horrified to find out that  >  > $ LICENSE DELETE * > < > is a valid command.  Yikes!  Y'all be careful now, y'hear?  
    Backup.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 11:52:41 -0600r- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s% Subject: Re: Hobbyist: Phase IV or V? 3 Message-ID: <eIOFq0JlLSyA@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  a In article <3C2F017B.D14EC10A@starpower.net>, Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> writes:s > Hello, > H > For my hobbyist VMS cluster with VMS 7.1 is there any reason for me toG > use DECNET Plus?  I have the "full" VMS CD set, not the hobbyist one,eI > and when I install VMS it recommends I install DECNET Plus.  I've heardo8 > DECNET Plus can be hard to configure.  (Is this true?)  G    If you just want to bring it up and use built in apps like set host,1E    DECnet V is not too much a pain.  But I've not yet figured out howC4    to declare the Flight Simulator object via NCL.    D    I set it up like PHONE, but it complains invalid login when I tryH    to start the client.  If I give it explicit access control I get someE    other error (it's been over a week so I don't recall the details).a  B    Which means I'm now thinking of upgrading to Phase IV so my kid    can run Flight Simulator.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:26:09 -0500l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds-, Message-ID: <3C342378.290DFDDA@videotron.ca>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:I > Alright, so let me play devil's advocate for a moment: out of the wholee1 > of the "public", who should Compaq "say it" to?h  K To prove its supposed commitment to VMS, Compaq *must* have Capellas say itoJ publicly in an interview on CNN, as well as having advertising that is VMSM specific and which has no problems ridiculing the kiddies OS (perhaps withoute naming it).o    L The message needs to be very public, not because it will increase sales, butM that is the only way Compaq can have any credibility with any of its supposed K commitments. The message is really targetted at the installed user base whooJ are waiting for Compaq to make such a very public move to see if Compaq is really serious about VMS.:  N And I would like to see Capellas deny the sayings of Winkler (NT will rule theH world) and move the later to a position where he doesn't speak publicly.  F And this would have to be done in a sustained way. The last hopes of aD renaissance were dashed when the funds for that renessance dried up.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:05:24 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds 3 Message-ID: <PAMCK716uPVt@eisner.encompasserve.org>'  g In article <d7791aa1.0201021027.278e0c3@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:   j > koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<r4K$mywehFhK@eisner.encompasserve.org>... >> eK >>    I just got a very nice glossy (with a cover letter from Mark Gorham)    N > what's this guys email address ... I would like to tell him a few things ...  2    Mark.Gorham@Compaq.com would be my first guess.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:08:49 -0600m- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds 3 Message-ID: <IIBPE2xJQgGx@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  [ In article <3C33B447.EDE26D0E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:lI > Alright, so let me play devil's advocate for a moment: out of the wholed1 > of the "public", who should Compaq "say it" to?s > A > I am currently being pressed for this info. in a private e-mailoB > conversation. I'd like the group's input, if I may be so bold... >   D    IMHO, they SHOULD get a VMS blimp.  They should run this stuff asC    an add in during the Super Bowl.  I really mean the whole of the 
    public.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:48:55 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsf0 Message-ID: <3C347CAA.2EA58ABE@blueyonder.co.uk>   Bob Koehler wrote: > ] > In article <3C33B447.EDE26D0E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:nK > > Alright, so let me play devil's advocate for a moment: out of the wholes3 > > of the "public", who should Compaq "say it" to?- > >-C > > I am currently being pressed for this info. in a private e-mailvD > > conversation. I'd like the group's input, if I may be so bold... > >D > F >    IMHO, they SHOULD get a VMS blimp.  They should run this stuff asE >    an add in during the Super Bowl.  I really mean the whole of thet >    public.  ? absolutely everybody, I agree. People need to know there is an p alternative to BSOD. o   -- r Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of )! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:30:56 -0500- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>B9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedse3 Message-ID: <Az0Z7.85602$Z2.1239116@nnrp1.uunet.ca>s  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C33B447.EDE26D0E@fsi.net...  >...I > Alright, so let me play devil's advocate for a moment: out of the wholee1 > of the "public", who should Compaq "say it" to?b >...  1 IMHO it should be told to the CEO's of the world.o  H At the risk of repeating myself again, I still think that the campaign I mentioned before in-L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Gi076.119084%24Z2.1383507%40nnrp1.uunetL .ca would be the best thing for VMS. The time to start it would be now while: people are still thinking about buffer overruns in WIN XP.  6 I also really liked the ad that Wayne posted recently;J http://www.tachysoft.com/www/vms_not_toy.html. I would love to see that in the WSJ some day soon.     --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:01:43 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedso5 Message-ID: <3C349C87.18DF2C13@swissonline.delete.ch>X   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  ...h > I > Alright, so let me play devil's advocate for a moment: out of the whole 1 > of the "public", who should Compaq "say it" to?S > A > I am currently being pressed for this info. in a private e-mailiB > conversation. I'd like the group's input, if I may be so bold...     You may indeed be so bold !r  G My first thoughts are to get the information in front of the people whoOC matter, the CIO's.  Hit them with the technical features of VMS and2F explain what these features will enable them to achieve. These are theF people who make the IT spending decisions.  Make it difficult for them  to ignore the advantages of VMS.  H I would start out with magazines like "CIO" and similar pulications thatD are relevant at the top of the IT food-chain.  Over time work up andC down to provide similiar information to CEO's and to the general IT_
 professional._  F One thing that is important is to get the press releases out there forG the professionals who look at these things and for the IT media so theya9 will start to make the existence of VMS common knowledge.d  G Superbowls and blimps for VMS ?  More advertising on busstops in PolandeE ?  I don't think so.  We are trying to target the small percentage ofh: people who work in IT and can make use of the information.  D TV campaigns ?  Maybe - but only during business programs watched by8 senior execs, again because this is the target audience.  D Actually Compaq would do themselves a big service by advertising allH their high-end products in these ways.  The broad scatter advertising toD the home (or small business) user of PCs is fine because that is theH market.  The high-end stuff needs to be directed at IT professionals andG IT decision makers but it is important to note that today's programmersmG may one day be the decision-makers and they need to be aware of VMS toon& if VMS is to have any real longevity.      Okay ?     John McLeana   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:32:31 -0600T- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m; Subject: JDK 1.3.1 past due (feature not found in the beta)w3 Message-ID: <Vpj9GTHgb$qR@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  E    "late 2001" having come and gone, anyone have info on when we willa+    get a JDK for VMS that supports mozilla?,   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:41:54 -0500f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f3 Subject: Re: MicroVAX II, which version of OpenVMS?n, Message-ID: <3C342728.16178FDE@videotron.ca>   Jeremy Begg wrote:K > I'm fairly certain that my first MicroVAX II (in 1986) came with MicroVMS, > V4.2.  >    Is that your final answer ?????    :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:47:36 GMTh4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Of Blimps and Barrage Balloonsa> Message-ID: <ca_Y7.50491$Sj1.21121439@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:IIBPE2xJQgGx@eisner.encompasserve.org...n= > In article <3C33B447.EDE26D0E@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"e <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:<K > > Alright, so let me play devil's advocate for a moment: out of the wholer3 > > of the "public", who should Compaq "say it" to?n > >,C > > I am currently being pressed for this info. in a private e-mailiD > > conversation. I'd like the group's input, if I may be so bold... > >a >BF >    IMHO, they SHOULD get a VMS blimp.  They should run this stuff asE >    an add in during the Super Bowl.  I really mean the whole of them >    public.  J First, the whole of the public is not the target audience for OpenVMS. (Or MVS or NSK, etc).   I Second, the Blimp Card has been played already. Remember something calleds
 AltaVista?  B Better to run a "VMS as the underpinnings of a stable, secure, andH disaster-tolerant IT infrastructure" ad in vehicles (WSJ? Sunday morningD financial and political shows?) that are seen by Key Influencers andJ Decisionmakers. These are the folks who have fallen under the influence of9 the Windoze Cult and who need some serious deprogramming.s  L I can recall only one OS-related gridiron classic. T'was the IBM OS/2 FiestaG Bowl sometime back in the first half of the 90s. The Syracuse Orangemenn  kicked butt. Alas, OS/2 did not.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:46:22 -0600s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y+ Subject: Re: Of Blimps and Barrage Balloonsn3 Message-ID: <Z4eOyIbJO0vq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <ca_Y7.50491$Sj1.21121439@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   L > First, the whole of the public is not the target audience for OpenVMS. (Or > MVS or NSK, etc).   F    Now your being defeatist.  Why shouldn't 6 billion customers exist?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 07:42:49 -0600a- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)n5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!s3 Message-ID: <EIUXePh$DtEl@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  U In article <3C2A608C.E4F98F41@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:r  E > Solved w/ ODS-5 disks which also provide filename case sensitivity.D  B    No, it provides filename case preservation, in case insensitive
    manner.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 07:45:59 -0600c- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up! 3 Message-ID: <BFomiOdVIFNQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <3C2AD22E.E3080E72@home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes: > S > You can't directly rename a file from let's say FILENAME.DAT to FileName.Dat. You'K > have to use one step extra, for instance FILENAME.DAT to FILENAME.DATX tos > FileName.Dat.d >   J    Yes you can rename FILENAME.DAT to FileName.Dat.  I do it all the time.E    I have a command file which does just htat so I can get around NFStE    problems (I'm using NFS witin a cluster so my VAX can see my ODS-5u    volumes, sigh).  I    What you can't do is rename just one version to a different case when 0H    there are multiple versions.  New versions always assume the case of     existing versions.n   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 09:01:46 -0600a- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up!i3 Message-ID: <eCQOHwpkQeUM@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  c In article <BFomiOdVIFNQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:u  L >    Yes you can rename FILENAME.DAT to FileName.Dat.  I do it all the time.G >    I have a command file which does just htat so I can get around NFS<G >    problems (I'm using NFS witin a cluster so my VAX can see my ODS-5r >    volumes, sigh). > K >    What you can't do is rename just one version to a different case when pJ >    there are multiple versions.  New versions always assume the case of  >    existing versions.f  F What is the syntax for renaming all versions of a file to a new case ?G RENAME A.B;* a.b;* would be my obvious guess, but I can't make it work.w   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:38:49 -0600n- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)l5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  vs. Unix  -  put up or shut up! 3 Message-ID: <dRgmJHrVwaXI@eisner.encompasserve.org>y  c In article <eCQOHwpkQeUM@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ue > In article <BFomiOdVIFNQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e > M >>    Yes you can rename FILENAME.DAT to FileName.Dat.  I do it all the time.rH >>    I have a command file which does just htat so I can get around NFSH >>    problems (I'm using NFS witin a cluster so my VAX can see my ODS-5 >>    volumes, sigh).  >> wL >>    What you can't do is rename just one version to a different case when K >>    there are multiple versions.  New versions always assume the case of o1 >>    existing versions.                         o > H > What is the syntax for renaming all versions of a file to a new case ?I > RENAME A.B;* a.b;* would be my obvious guess, but I can't make it work.l  @    In that case, I think you have to use a temporary third name.2    Appearanlty rename works one version at a time.                                ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:28:28 -0800 (PST). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> Subject: OpenVMS : PIPE problema@ Message-ID: <20020103182828.25347.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   People !=20V  " First of all : Happy New Year!!!!!  , I discovered a problem with the PIPE command under OpenVMS 7.1-1H2 and 7.2   / When I try to check the "Peak:" field in the=20t  % UCX or TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULLe   Example:  2 PIPE TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL | SEA SYS$PIPE "Peak:"e   It doesn=B4t work fine.s   Try=20  / PIPE TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL | TYPE/PAGE  SYS$PIPE     Any suggestions ?i   Regardse           =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D.L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dl F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dw  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?( Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:38:55 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>* Subject: OpenVMS : PIPE problem ; Message-ID: <01KCN9L2ADOW8ZEGIP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   4 > PIPE TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL | SEA SYS$PIPE	 > "Peak:"B > : > PIPE TCPIP SHOW SERVICE TELNET/FULL | TYPE/PAGE SYS$PIPE  = Contrast both to the behaviour without a second PIPE command.5  H Redirect the output to a file.  You will see that it has <CR><LF> in it  etc.  D This looks rather ugly, unnecessary and, as your example shows, can D cause problems.  Is this an artefact of porting the stack from unix?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:29:36 -06002- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)b" Subject: Re: Problem unpacking TSM3 Message-ID: <5qosq2tARI+M@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  a In article <cqbFQ+8dfC8G@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:r > D >        I copied it from CD to directory... I noticed it was strmlf >        so thought a: > L > $ SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES=(RFM:FIX,LRL:512,MRS:512,RAT:NONE) TSM021.DCX_AXPEXE > M >       Might be in order... but I received the same results  :(  What is theP >        deal?  Any clues?  F    The image activator doesn't really care what the file format is, itF    just maps the bytes into memory.  Set file should have no affect on@    this.  Convert could add or remove bytes, which would cause a    problem.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:37:50 -05002 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Rdb ??h1 Message-ID: <j7ZY7.245$5Y4.5027@news.cpqcorp.net>h   Dear Newsgroup,W  K Since this issue was raised in this forum I wanted you all to know how thish
 was resolved.   L I saw Jan-Erik's mail and forwarded to our Oracle team here in the VMS groupL they then contacted Oracle. The note we received back from Oracle was on DecL 19, sorry for the delay in getting this back to you, most of the Oracle team was on vacation.  - Jan-Erik, my apologies if I missed your post.r   suenL ____________________________________________________________________________ _____________________m Yvonne,   L I called the Oracle sales rep who caused this problem and explained the trueB status of Rdb. He had completely misunderstood a statement made by  C a sales consultant. He apologized to me. He called the customer and @ apologized to him. The customer wrote a follow up message on the  L listserver saying that the sales rep had called to correct his error. I hope this settles this issue.   Bill        7 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <noone@dummy.com> wrote in messageo# news:3C162F64.17397078@dummy.com...o > Hi.e; > I just got this message from the Oracle Rdb list-server :e > C > "My Oracle Account Rep just called me and told me that Oracle RDBdC > was going away.  I'm figuring he was hoping to move us to Oracle. D > I couldn't get him to provide any additional details..  What's the > scoop?8 > I'm puzzled as to why he would call and tell me this?" >- >-I > It's the complete message b.t.w, I just cut away the original sender...@ >o	 > Regardsr > Jan-Erik Sderholm.c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:12:18 +0100( From: "Nico de Jong" <nico@farumdata.dk>Y Subject: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise ofr/ Message-ID: <cHZY7.59$lE1.3536@news.get2net.dk>r  = Christian Bau <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk> skrev i en.: nyhedsmeddelelse:3C345CC0.3DC17A21@cbau.freeserve.co.uk...I > I read your first post and thought I fit nicely into your description -kD > Mac fan, thinks the Macintosh is the greatest product in the wholeF > computer industry (apart from things in completely different markets@ > that are uncomparable), and wants to learn about _everything_. >:D > It must be very embarassing indeed if you cannot even express your > prejudices correctly.r  < Well, I must say it again : it is _my_ experience  etcetera.L I'm not implying that this experience is valid for everybody, nor that it isJ the holy script. It is my personal _observation_ in the market I'm working in.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:59:47 +0000m8 From: Christian Bau <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demis 4 Message-ID: <3C3471E3.B56D1AB0@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>   Nico de Jong wrote:i > ? > Christian Bau <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk> skrev i en5< > nyhedsmeddelelse:3C345CC0.3DC17A21@cbau.freeserve.co.uk...K > > I read your first post and thought I fit nicely into your description -7F > > Mac fan, thinks the Macintosh is the greatest product in the wholeH > > computer industry (apart from things in completely different marketsB > > that are uncomparable), and wants to learn about _everything_. > > F > > It must be very embarassing indeed if you cannot even express your > > prejudices correctly.e > > > Well, I must say it again : it is _my_ experience  etcetera.N > I'm not implying that this experience is valid for everybody, nor that it is>   ************************************************************L > the holy script. It is my personal _observation_ in the market I'm working > in.y  E You are not implying this? Strange way to express you opinion, I must H say. In a thread that had nothing to do with Macs whatsoever, you postedF without any reason that Macintosh users are not willing to learn aboutE anything. How am I supposed to interpret this, tell me? You have been-G insulting a large percentage of all computer users without any reason. i  G I am really wondering if what you interpret as "unwillingness to learn"@G isn't what I interpret as "unwillingness to put up with crap", which ism@ in my personal observation a strong tendency in Macintosh users.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 13:29:36 +0000c8 From: Christian Bau <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise ofk4 Message-ID: <3C345CC0.3DC17A21@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>   Nico de Jong wrote:e > . > Alex Colvin <alexc@world.std.com> skrev i en0 > nyhedsmeddelelse:GpBs72.437Dq@world.std.com...I > > >I've never seen a Mac-fan ... who didnt want to learn about anythingX
 > > >else. > >l > > --9 > > "not not" not Algol -- DTSS Algol 60 Reference Manualm > > -- > > mac the naf >  > Oh sh.., how embarrassing...L > And I've even been told by my main supplier that my command of the English > language is above average...K > Anyway, what I mean, was "I've never seen a Mac-fan who did want to learn  > ...."a > L > I've read quite some reactions on this statement, but (for me) it is still > true. L > I didnt want to p... people off (I'm not in the trolling business), but itN > seems that the kind of people the Mac attracts, is different from country to= > country. I've truly no idea why. This _is_ meant seriously.   G I read your first post and thought I fit nicely into your description -gB Mac fan, thinks the Macintosh is the greatest product in the wholeD computer industry (apart from things in completely different markets? that are uncomparable), and wants to learn about _everything_.    B It must be very embarassing indeed if you cannot even express your prejudices correctly.l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:12:51 -0500+ From: Keith R. Williams <krw@attglobal.net> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The    demise ofk: Message-ID: <MPG.169e30eeaa26935d9896d4@enews.newsguy.com>  F In article <3C3377CE.B3A60C5D@earthlink.net>, jchausler@earthlink.net  says...n >  >  > Charles Richmond wrote:r > H > > I also have a Linux box, but it is *not* attached to the 'net. And IG > > am *very* interested in learning all sorts of new computer stuff. I G > > am also interested in learning all sorts of *old* computer stuff...u7 > > like about Bendix machines, LGP-30's, and others...p > A > If you ever find out anything about Bendix G-20's, particularlye= > about any other than the three which were at CIT/CMU in theo" > mid and late 60's, let me know.   @ There were two Bendix (one had a GE logo, IIRC) G-20s in the EE E department at Illinois (UIUC) when I was there in the early 70's.  I eH believe one was bought as scrap ($.10/lb). I have no idea what happened  to them.   ----   Keiths   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Jan 2002 21:36:04 +11005 From: Malcolm Purvis <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au>dY Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of caD Message-ID: <m1y9jfyb57.fsf@co3018576-a.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>  > >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> writes:  : Charles> So *not* all Mac-fans are fanatically Mac-only...  N Why not combine your interests and run Linux on a Mac?  Then you can be looked/ upon strangely by both the Mac and Linux camps.w  
 $ uname -aK Linux co3018576-a 2.2.18-4hpmac #1 Thu Dec 21 15:16:15 MST 2000 ppc unknownn   Malcolma   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:41:15 +1100Y From: "Al   \(Alex Gibson\)" <alxx//nospam\\@ihug.//.die.spammer.die.\\com//.nospam\\.au>fY Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of c-1 Message-ID: <a11n5n$tak$1@bugstomper.ihug.com.au>   B "Malcolm Purvis" <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au> wrote in message> news:m1y9jfyb57.fsf@co3018576-a.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au...@ > >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> writes: >0< > Charles> So *not* all Mac-fans are fanatically Mac-only... >mI > Why not combine your interests and run Linux on a Mac?  Then you can be5 looked1 > upon strangely by both the Mac and Linux camps.  >e   why be so common ?   open or netbsd  http://www.openbsd.org/plat.html http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/   For something a bit differentd   plan 9& http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/1 http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/release3.htmlm yes it runs on powerpc   or amiga os http://www.amiga.com/q http://www.amiga.com/products/" http://www.amiga.com/products/one/4 http://www.amiga.com/corporate/102401-deplayer.shtmlL (not on mac though, it looks like http://www.amiga.com/products/one/faq.php)( http://www.amiga.com/products/one/pr.php! http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaoneo1 http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/information.php    Alex   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:16:36 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)sY Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of c 3 Message-ID: <ULPoCIqXJzNR@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  | In article <m1y9jfyb57.fsf@co3018576-a.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au>, Malcolm Purvis <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au> writes:? >>>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> writes:n > < > Charles> So *not* all Mac-fans are fanatically Mac-only... > P > Why not combine your interests and run Linux on a Mac?  Then you can be looked1 > upon strangely by both the Mac and Linux camps.e >  > $ uname -aM > Linux co3018576-a 2.2.18-4hpmac #1 Thu Dec 21 15:16:15 MST 2000 ppc unknown   E    My kid has been running LinuxPPC on his mac, and switching to/fromyH    Mac OS 9.  I keep wonder out load for him why he doesn't just use MacF    OS X instead.  Now we've got a new iMac running OS X at home, so he    can see for himself.r    S   ------------------------------   Date: 03 Jan 2002 18:40:46 GMT& From: stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cl; Message-ID: <slrna3891u.fj3.stanb@citadel.metropolis.local>e  C On 2 Jan 2002 21:53:31 GMT, Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:l- >In article <3C32C06C.A29CEF8B@videotron.ca>, 0 >JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:O >> There are a few MAC fans here. MAC fans have an affinity with VMS: quality. o >pK >Mac? Quality? Well, maybe in the future, now they finally have an OS to goaM >along with the great GUI. But MacOS was layers of kludges on top of kludges,nM >and it's a tribute to the quality of Apple's developers that they managed to55 >keep it from turning into a mess worse than Windows.o  M Indeed - it doesn't pay to look too closely under the skin of MacOS, but fromNM a _users_ point of view it has a "wholeness" and consistency somewhat lackingn in the opposition. e  K The Apple Human Interface guidelines talk a lot of common sense about GUIS:a  ? http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macos8/pdf/HIGuidelines.pdfA  I (The documents styleguide at the same location should be required readingE) for anyone producing docs for _users_...).   -- h Cheers,m Stan Barr  stanb@dial.pipex.comI   The future was never like this!I   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:03:32 +1300.# From: Bruce Hoult <bruce@hoult.org>sY Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of coa> Message-ID: <bruce-537F0F.20033203012002@news.paradise.net.nz>  6 In article <3C33F819.74DF6DDD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:n   > Peter da Silva wrote:sL > > Mac? Quality? Well, maybe in the future, now they finally have an OS to  > > goH > > along with the great GUI. But MacOS was layers of kludges on top of  > > kludges,F > > and it's a tribute to the quality of Apple's developers that they  > > managed to8 > > keep it from turning into a mess worse than Windows. > J > The kernel may have been flawed without real multitasking, and they may Q > have taken a strange decision to base the API on PASCAL calling standards, but nI > they had established standards back in 1984 and there are some programsw > that still work today.  F Many, in fact.  I've got a copy of LodeRunner which is dated 1984 and G still works fine on MacOS X on an 867 MHz PPC G4.  In fact, it runs at o the correct *speed*.  H Quite a number of very old programs that were broken by the instruction F caches on the 68020 (or the bigger one on the 68040) work fine on the  emulator on PowerPC machines.s   -- Bruce   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:05:42 -0600O- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)pY Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of co 3 Message-ID: <MqV3YASKoaYM@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <TRyY7.6$Gy.706@news.get2net.dk>, "Nico de Jong" <nico@farumdata.dk> writes:e >>7 > I tend to agree with you, with one exception (so far) K > I've never seen a Mac-fan which didnt think that the Mac was the greatest  > invention since the 7th day   C    Well, you haven't seen me, but I do post here from time to time. E    I'm a Mac fan.  I'm more of a VMS fan, but Mac is my 2nd favorite.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 13:10:32 -0500 - From: "John Eisenschmidt" <jeisensc@aaas.org> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( wasRe: The demise of com + Message-ID: <sc34584f.085@AAASMTA.aaas.org>o  L Alright, I'm young, and my first computer exposure was my Commodore 128, I =G consider PC the platform I cut my teeth on. So I was a PC person first.2  H I think the Mac is fine computer. I think MacOS - flaws and all - is a =H fine OS. I've always been a proponent of "the right tool for the right =K job". Until Windows gives up on True Type Fonts completely, Mac is it. We = # have 60 of them here in our office.E  F That said, I'm reminded of a coworker's favorite saying: "It's not a =# revolution - it's just a computer."O  E It's worth repeating: "It's not a revolution - it's just a computer".   E >>> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> 01/03/2002 1:05:42 PM >>>PL In article <TRyY7.6$Gy.706@news.get2net.dk>, "Nico de Jong" <nico@farumdata= dk> writes:  >>7 > I tend to agree with you, with one exception (so far)3D > I've never seen a Mac-fan which didnt think that the Mac was the = greatest > invention since the 7th dayo  C    Well, you haven't seen me, but I do post here from time to time.=E    I'm a Mac fan.  I'm more of a VMS fan, but Mac is my 2nd favorite._   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:23:49 -08002 From: "Walter Rottenkolber" <waltjr@sierratel.com>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqh+ Message-ID: <3c342646$2@news.sierratel.com>h  ; HomerWelch wrote in message <3C3396CC.ECE15E3A@home.com>...e >Walter Rottenkolber wrote:- >> >K >[snip]8 >I >>J >> The GUI is partly to blame. Users like the eye candy approach. The techI >> revolution also lets you buy a system that runs all this complex stuffY forE, >> $1000 less than a Kaypro II cost in 1983. >> >> Walter Rottenkolber >tB >Kaypro!  I haven't heard that term for many years.  Reminds me of: >Microcopia Magazine.  I wonder whatever happened to David> >Thompson.  Did he finally go 'round the Bend?  (cough, cough,# >pardon me, one of my better puns.)- >- >--- >-& >Homer J. Welch        hjwxxx@home.com >Troy, Michigano  L About 1990 the magazine folded. One of the victims of the IBM-pc revolution.L IIRC,  he also got divorced, so there may have been other problems too. Last+ I heard, he had moved back to Portland, OR.b  ! It was great fun while it lasted.e  J I did the upgrades, and the Kaypro still works great. Finally had to get aJ M$FT system to surf the web. 5 Mz, 64KB, and 1200 bps. can't quite cut it.   Walter Rottenkolber    ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 02 10:41:09 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com ! Subject: Re: The demise of compaq + Message-ID: <a11jue$ap1$4@bob.news.rcn.net>s  0 In article <a0uu9h$30o$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,L    Casper.Dik@Holland.Sun.Com (Casper H.S. Dik - Network Security Engineer)  wrote:4 >[[ PLEASE DON'T SEND ME EMAIL COPIES OF POSTINGS ]] <snip>  	 I DIDN'T.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 02 10:49:11 GMTh From: jmfbahciv@aol.comi! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqo+ Message-ID: <a11kdh$ap1$5@bob.news.rcn.net>e  8 In article <vbf73u0u224e9aeql8e710gqi7l1p56sq5@4ax.com>,8    Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:) >On 2 Jan 2002 07:35:05 -0800, Tim Shoppan" ><shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote: >g? >>In article <4495ef1f.0201012213.7a582c86@posting.google.com>,a" >>Brannon_Batson@yahoo.com says... >>>t9 >>>Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message_0 >>>news:<3C323450.221EE51C@trailing-edge.com>... >>>> [snip]  >>>>D >>>> What amazes me about "modern system design" is the large numberG >>>> of boxes it takes to perform a single function.  It used to be the H >>>> case that you had a terminal, the terminal hooked to the mainframe.H >>>> Now the whole industry seems designed around putting as many layersJ >>>> of middleware or "multi-tiered" in between the start and the end, andJ >>>> I honestly don't see the purpose most of the time.  The old mainframeD >>>> handled thousands of users on a single CPU with a few MIPS; howC >>>> come it takes dozens of multi-GHz servers to do the same thinge >>>> today?j >>>> lD >>>> I strongly suspect that this isn't the result of any conspiracyH >>>> to sell more hardware, but it's more a lack of understanding by the >>>> system architects.s >>> H >>>I'd be willing to wager that any off the shelf Alpha could handle theG >>>thousands of users with terminal shells and the batch processed text.A >>>jobs of yesteryear, and still have plenty of cycles left over.- >>C >>I agree... it *could*, but that's not the way people buy and selliJ >>systems (hardware+OS+software) anymore.  In fact, they haven't done thisC >>for a while - here's an interesting thing I trimmed out of an old. >>journal nearly a decade ago: >>F >>The quote from the December 6, 1993 edition of _Open Systems Today_: >>? >>        For now, the most enthusiastic buyers of Alpha appearI> >>        to be existing DEC customers that need more hardware? >>        speed.  Such customers include Sprint, in Burlingame,a> >>        California, which has purchased 33 Alphas to replace4 >>        a DEC PDP-11/70 it had been using  [ ... ] > = >Why didn't they just buy another 11/70 from Mentec? Not coolo& >enough technology for the investors?   : I hate reporters.  It's obvious the purchase order was cut> to also include hardware that some poor shmuck had been trying: to get for years.  Doesn't anybody remember how operations built their empires?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.,   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:53:34 -0500." From: jeffj@panix.com (Jeff Jonas)! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqr+ Message-ID: <a125qu$s2f$1@panix3.panix.com>-  F >> I always thought that this was due to that "distributed processing"@ >> craze gone awry.  Once the processing got doled out to piecesA >> of gear, collecting it back became impossible.  One reason was > >> that a piece would become a separate company.  Once it did,= >> it would go off on its own business path without the leashcD >> it would have had if the group had stayed within an organization. >fF >it wasn't even that ... just migration of function from mainframe outD >to the PC ... combination of 3270 emulation with screenscraping and >spreadsheets.  : Most of my dad's career was Cobol programming in true-blue1 all IBM shops, down to the genuine IBM terminals.l= (I don't think he ever got a color or multi-screen terminal).s; IBMers thought that having that Crayola-like stadium of 24+*" "function keys" was the way to go.L Now it's excessive mouse clicks, diagloue boxes, pup-up and pull-down menus.  ; I have hurt feelings about the way IBM connectivity evolvede% since I worked for related companies.tH AT&T Teletype made IBM compatible terminals and controllers that we usedG extensively internally, yet few folks outside of AT&T were brave enough @ to use non-IBM terminals since IBM was apparently very harsh and/ downgraded service to folks with mixed venders.f  9 I have many surplus 3270, 5150 emulator cards to ISA bus.I4 Some PCs merely used programs to emulate a terminal,H others had higher connectivity to allow local scripts and local programs to interact with the mainframe. A "Procomm" was a popular PC terminal emulator with file transfers,s+ ability to save screens, log sessions, etc.S6 Apertus had similar programs for 3270, 5150 emulation,G even with the IBM scripting language (I forgot the name, similar to the>6 Procomm ASPECT scripting for expect / send scripting).  I Apertus specialized in mainframe connectivity since mainframes apparentlyI. were really happiest with 3270 type terminals.3 Even with token ring and other IBM native products,n the thruput was never as high. There were several approaches:G - each PC had a 3270, 5150 emulator card, connecting to the SNA networktB   just like IBM native equipment, probably best for places already(   wired with twinax and IBM controllers.@ - have a protocol converter so the token ring or TCP/IP ethernetC could appear to the mainframe as hundreds of 3270 / 5150 terminals,iC so any workstation/PC on the network could connect to the mainframeh directly or via applicaions.D This got extremely clever as even IBM native printers were emulated,8 allowing Unix's print services to connect to mainframes,, and LU6.2 and IBM services were handled too.* It's amazing what IBM shoehorned into SNA.  A Screen scraping and other application connectivity was supported. > One clever customer had PCs connecting to the mainframe so theJ automated phone service took the touch-tone as input and spoke the output,8 but it all appeared as a 3270 terminal to the mainframe!    : What's hurt my career and the computer industry in general< is the way nobody's willing to undertake long term projects.A 5+ year projects were once normal.  Now, it's quarter to quarter.e3 Folks *try* to use middlewear and software toolkitssB as if making a complex, inter-related data processing system was a Lego or Tinkertoy kit :-(n  F A reason for the dozen-pcs replacing one old-midframe/mainframe is the< way one system will be dedicated to just protocol conversion0 (decnet, SNA to TCP, IPX) and data reformatting,8 other are "legacy" systems (read "we can't pull the plugA since nobody knows how it works and we can't replace it either").i  E >one of the "real" & "serious" problems is that the mainframes tendeddE >to have serious business continuity efforts (backups, recovery, etc)nC >which seldom existing on the PCs ... when serious corporate assets G >weren't just being copied to the PC ... but actually (only) resided at @ >the PC ... there started to be an upswing in business problems.  4 And I still see so many "server" configurations sold with no useful backup device.e@ I work at mostly Unix shops were they have network-based backups0 to a central machine with an auto-loader backup.: Some were home-grown solutions, other were more integrated7 (Apollo Domain systems were highly network-integrated).o  B >there was a study done in mid-90s that of the businesses that hadA >serious business assets resident on a non-backedup disk that hadeF >crashed ... 50 percent filed for bankruptcy within the first 30 days.  E I've heard of places that went thru all the motions of making backupsd2 only to find that the backups were either useless,: or didn't contain the critical data they intended to save!5 Some were even off-site storage!  Close but no cigar.-  C >there was some serious efforts by the mainframe disk operations to D >address the problem starting by at least the late '80s .... however@ >various kinds of corporate "in-fighting" seriously hampered the >deployment.B >The SNA business group didn't want to give up its market turf andD >revenue that it had from treating the PCs as emulated terminals ...   [said in a Rod Sterling voice]C Sadly, that's not restricted solely to the Twilight Zone, err, IBM.c  F IBM was notorious for deliberately crippling otherwise able machine soH they'd continue to sell the older stuff and not compete with themselves.O But any company with entrenched folks will seek comfort and protect their turf.x$ Customers and products be damned :-(  F >this is somewhat related to the middleware and departmental computing	 >efforts.   H Indeed.  With the current trend of licensing software and making you use8 a central server (microsoft/net?), it's almost admitting5 that the "X" system was the right model to do things:mE use a central compute server and have the desktop just format things. + That way, the servers can be swapped aroundrI and the users ought be none the wiser (as in switching servers in and out/I with hot spares, even swapping from one site to another in an emergency).k  J I think that Plan 9 from Bell Labs was trying to evolve in that direction:= not just client/server but having network based resources for 9 compute servers, etc to allow for growth and scalability.:    ; I remember horrible things from the early 90s, such the way ? one Unix machine could handle multiple modems, even GUI with X.r@ But NOOOOOOOOO, the company I worked for used one Windows/DOS PCF per modem line, each requiring a licensed copy of PC Anywhere for GUI.' (Win-NT was not available at that time)12 One GUI per PC/CPU was the M$ way ('till recently)  ( Have we not learned anything since then? -- n
 Jeffrey Jonass jeffj@panix(dot)coma! The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hides   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 10:58:13 -070084 From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>! Subject: Re: The demise of compaqn8 Message-ID: <at583ushcrrbvgm5e6gcgvqmcccoh8mgs4@4ax.com>  5 On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:08:15 GMT, Anne & Lynn Wheeleru <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:   [snip]  F >PC was a really fancy, gui 3270 (does anybody remember the early '90s: >efforts to have lotus 123 running on backend mainframe?).  ? I do remember running DynaCalc (later DynaPlan when it went 3D)Y? in the early '80s in 16MB VMs. What 640KB limit? Our chargebackeA billings and usage stats on the 6670 laser and GDDM graphs on thee= HP plotter (spooled by RSCS via local attached 3274) made the>% accountants and 1-2-3 weenies drool! B  9 Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis 	Calgary, Alberta, Canadar --  F Brian.Inglis@CSi.com 	(Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca),     fake address		use address above to reply tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com abuse@msn.com abuse@sprint.com abuse@earthlink.com abuse@cadvision.com abuse@ibsystems.com uce@ftc.gov 						spam traps   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:51:48 GMTo  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>8 Subject: Re: The Inquirer: Compaq Readying Tru64 Layoffs8 Message-ID: <8r293u0d7v01sp3ta82oi6hs5uoe01gldc@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:23:20 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:f  
 >jlsue wrote:u >> SE >> Well, I suspect that Fred gets the same internal 'VMS Wins' e-mail  >> that I receive regularly. >eL >But unless you also see "VMS Losses" email messages, you cannot have a good" >idea of what is realkly going on. >sL >For instance, think of a shop that has 2 applications on seperate vaxes andH >that is all that is left on VMS. They want to merge those into a singleO >machine to reduce costs for the next couple of years until those apps are move 	 >to unix.T >dO >You would see a "a new VMS sale". But the customer has already decided to movenL >away from VMS, and has already shifted much of his VMS infrastructure (theyC >used to be a very large vms shop) to HP-UX over the last 10 years.a  A Geeze JF, no, I don't think we're mind readers, but the issue was D whether there is a down-turn in VMS sales.  Also was a discussion on. whether there were all that many sales at all.  F I merely provided support that Fred (and I) does see news of VMS salesB figures for larger orders (many over millions of $$ in each order,E though some are in the lower thousands) - and only for those that gets, noted and sent to the right person (Sue S.).  B The point is that, contrary to other comments here, there are some- serious $$$ being spent on VMS systems still.y1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqd- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 02:19:06 -0500u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h5 Subject: Re: The Inquirer: more on OpenVMS's "future"o, Message-ID: <3C3405B9.9932DD79@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: K > unlikely event that the merger actually materializes, I don't have enoughoM > inside perspective to call for the heads of the entire CPQ management team.s    L But such an ad would simply bring the attention to the mismanagement and theG rest would happen by itself. Once they contact you and you mention thatiN Winkler and friends are anti enterprise system and loyal microsoft apoligists,$ then they will know who needs to go.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 06:42:40 CDTn= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.524703.killspam.00bd (Wayne Sewell) * Subject: Re: Too Few Servers opcom message. Message-ID: <HNzqF5tCQe5O@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  R In article <3C33D65B.F12667F3@vsm.com.au>, Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes:	 > Hi Joe,  > " >> How do I stop the opcom message >> j >> Message from user SYSTEM ( >> Event: Too Few Servers Detected from: >> eO >> From appearing in the operator log.  I have set        ncl> set dtss servers 
 >> required 1e0 >> but the system still reports too few servers. > J > Other respondents have commented about configuring DTSS.  Here's anotherI > method for making those messages disappear, which I worked out before Ia! > learned about configuring DTSS.o > A > Create the file SYS$MANAGER:NET$EVENT_LOCAL.NCL which contains:p > = > ! NET$EVENT_LOCAL.NCL   User-defined EVENT DISPATCHER setuph > ! J.Begg  24-Jun-1997a > !rH > ! We don't run a DTSS server so prevent the "Too Few Servers Detected" > ! messagehE > block event dispatcher outbound stream local_stream global filter - . >     ((Node, DTSS), Too Few Servers Detected) > !2 >   H This was covered by those responses that told him to read the FAQ.  This$ blocking command can be found there.       -- yO ===============================================================================hM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxh: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)-O ===============================================================================tN Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:17:09 +01001 From: "Willem Grooters" <wgrooters@vxcomapny.com>> Subject: TT devices missing?4 Message-ID: <3c347824$0$226$4d4ebb8e@news.nl.uu.net>   Hello there,  ) I've a strange thing I cannot resolve....    Problem:F Given a PWS500au - two COMports, of which one (I believe it;s COM1) isH connected to a PC, running a terminal emulator used as console (reuqiredJ once since there were problems with the video in the PWS), running VMS7.3.L I want to connect a modem to the second COM-port (COM2, having modem controlL (I hope)) bit nowhere I find TTA1, TTB0 .... The only one in VMS seems to beK TTA0 (as a result of "show device T") - which is the console: Show terminalt gives "TTA0" as well.t7 Where has TTA1 (or TTB0, or any other TT: device) gone?t   Willem Grooterso Willem@Grooters.100.nl   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:40:12 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e Subject: VMS and the Big Dig1 Message-ID: <u%_Y7.251$5Y4.4973@news.cpqcorp.net>k  = Someone pointed me at this recently...  read down to the end.1  B http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/computing/12/20/bigdig.idg/index.html   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:49:02 -0600u- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)@  Subject: Re: VMS and the Big Dig3 Message-ID: <qSYXoHooy0MY@eisner.encompasserve.org>T  i In article <u%_Y7.251$5Y4.4973@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: ? > Someone pointed me at this recently...  read down to the end.1 > D > http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/computing/12/20/bigdig.idg/index.html      Where'd they buy that PC?  B    OK, I'll blame that one on Ms. Sykes.  Maybe Compaq can add the3    surrounding sentences to their next add campain.t   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:53:56 +0100 (MET):9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o  Subject: Re: VMS and the Big Dig; Message-ID: <01KCNA6PJBKM8ZEGIP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>w  D > http://www.cnn.com/1999/TECH/computing/12/20/bigdig.idg/index.html  @ Do others also have the "LATEST HEADLINES:" in Portuguese?  Why?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:24:27 GMTt( From: "Joe the Aroma" <bdjr76@yahoo.com>Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)dI Message-ID: <LI_Y7.211791$WW.12382966@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>w  , "Kim" <kim@bite.me.spambot> wrote in message' news:xIRY7.8890$DY1.519461@rwcrnsc54...T > Tim Llewellyn wrote: >l > >o > >s > > Joe the Aroma wrote: > >aI > >> I've never believed in emulators. I'd rather just use the real thingm (ofn= > >> course I don't believe working with OS's is 'fun' in any' way/shape/form,n8 > >> unlike many of the other whackos who respond here). > >>3 > >> I'd find a place to get a VAX account instead.  > >ID > > where can one get a VAX account with full priviledges then, Joe?  K Who the f*ck needs full priveledges? My OS is a game and enjoyment deliverybK system. Other than that it's worthless. I need a system that I can do basic.I user things on. VMS/UNIX/Windows... they're all toys to me, I play aroundr
 with them.  I Of course one may ask why I'm here ... which is beginning to sound like ae good question.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 11:35:28 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) 3 Message-ID: <Pg4qtcLBW2VP@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <URzX7.14185$726.5870956@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>, GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes:a  6 > Compaq is porting OpenVMS and Tru64 to the Itanium.   E    I thought the Tru64 port was announced canceled.  Or was that justn    some rumor sheet?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 11:43:21 -0600h- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)aY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)p3 Message-ID: <y0AwMeVPsF5F@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  v In article <20020101164555.32312.qmail@gacracker.org>, Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes: > I > What has been done is a VAX emulator for PCs called CharonVAX. Once youiL > have this up and running you can install VMS on your virtual VAX. There isM > talk of this being available through the hobbyist program again, so it will>< > be possible to run VMS on a PC for free when this happens.  F    It is available though the hobbyist program, I have the new versionG    (called Pico-VAX) loaded on my laptop.  I just haven't loaded any OSe:    on it yet because I got some real systems to work with.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 17:52:44 GMTt) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)iY Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds) ' Message-ID: <a125pc$me4$1@joe.rice.edu>g  . Bob Koehler (koehler@encompasserve.org) wrote:K : In article <URzX7.14185$726.5870956@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>, GreyCloud - : <mist@cumulus.com> writes: :e8 : > Compaq is porting OpenVMS and Tru64 to the Itanium.  :lG :    I thought the Tru64 port was announced canceled.  Or was that justw :    some rumor sheet?  9    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2100182,00.htmla8    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - HP brings Unixes together      HP brings Unixes together  "    15:29 Friday 30th November 2001    Martin Veitch, IT Weeks  H   "The HP-UX system will form the bulk of the post-merger company's Unix    server offering  H    Hewlett-Packard's HP-UX is to continue to form the bulk of the firm'sH    Unix offering after the acquisition of Compaq is completed next year.A    This will mean upheaval for firms using Compaq's Tru64 Unix as I    elements of Tru64 are added to HP-UX and, as previously announced, thet+    AlphaServer family is slowly phased out.u  H    HP and Compaq said at the announcement of their merger agreement thatC    they would combine their Unix operating systems, but declined toiI    detail how that would be achieved. However, in an exclusive interview,tH    a senior Compaq executive said that HP-UX will form the new HP's coreF    offering, bolstered by Tru64 clustering and other high-end features     taken from Compaq's software.  H    The target platform will be Intel's Itanium processor rather than theH    proprietary HP PA-Risc and Compaq Alpha processors, both of which are    being phased out.  F    "Integrating HP-UX with Tru64 gives us a strong market share," saidE    Rich Marcello, vice president and general manager of Compaq's High3H    Performance Systems unit. "Tru64 clustering technology will be mergedF    on top of HP-UX. You will be running on industry-standard platformsC    and every ISV (independent software vendor) will want to come to     that," he added.o  D    Marcello said that as well as the TruClusters technology, Tru64'sE    support for Internet Protocol version 6.0 (IPv6) and advanced file 2    system capabilities will be grafted onto HP-UX.  H    Third-party software support is critical, argued Marcello. "The thingI    we want to guarantee is a large ISV portfolio so we're (combining) themD    second most popular Unix (HP-UX) and the fourth most popular Unix    (Tru64)," he commented.  F    The combination of Unixes will compete against IBM's AIX 5L and theG    established market leader, Sun's Solaris. Although Linux is based ona@    Unix code, it lacks the workload management and 128-processorC    scalability of Unix versions that have been developed over a farr    longer period of time.e  H    Marcello would not say whether HP or Compaq server architectures willD    be selected as the flagship of the new company, citing regulatoryF    restrictions pending the merger's completion. However, he said thatI    the new company's industry-standard system architecture and Unix focus"G    will have a particular attraction for Oracle and its customers givensF    Oracle's competition with IBM and Microsoft on database and line-of    business application fronts.a  I    "IBM (and Microsoft are not) going to do well with Oracle because theydF    fundamentally have aggravated it, and the same with BEA (with which0    IBM competes on middleware)," Marcello said."   --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:54:35 GMTb4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: VMS as a career move ( was Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds)s0 Message-ID: <3C347DFE.45AEA110@blueyonder.co.uk>   Joe the Aroma wrote: > . > "Kim" <kim@bite.me.spambot> wrote in message) > news:xIRY7.8890$DY1.519461@rwcrnsc54...a > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >e > > >a > > >y > > > Joe the Aroma wrote: > > >hK > > >> I've never believed in emulators. I'd rather just use the real thingd > (ofh? > > >> course I don't believe working with OS's is 'fun' in anyt > way/shape/form,s: > > >> unlike many of the other whackos who respond here). > > >>5 > > >> I'd find a place to get a VAX account instead.t > > > F > > > where can one get a VAX account with full priviledges then, Joe? > M > Who the f*ck needs full priveledges? My OS is a game and enjoyment deliveryeM > system. Other than that it's worthless. I need a system that I can do basictK > user things on. VMS/UNIX/Windows... they're all toys to me, I play aroundn > with them. > K > Of course one may ask why I'm here ... which is beginning to sound like ai > good question.  H ok, I wasn't being antagonistic, Joe, really. Just making the point thatE a NETMBX+TMPMBX only account can seem somewhat restrictive to someoneoK who is used to having all privs. Actually, thinking about it, I don't want nL privs on a system  over which I have no control over the backup strategy or  hardware access. n   good luck with VMS -- n Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  g  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of t! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:26:41 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>  Subject: Re: VMS for hobbyists; Message-ID: <01KCN0U2QHXG8ZEGIP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>p  G > > On the one hand, I can understand disallowing ALL commercial use ofmK > > something which is free.  OK, Linux and BSD have another model, but VMStE > > has to pay the guys who write the code which makes it a good OS.   > N > On the surface, this is an agreable statement. However, consider that one of= > VMS's greatest weakenesses is its visibility and marketing.   H True, but the choices aren't only a) bad marketing and b) allow use for A free.  Many successful products cost money but are marketed well.U   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:31:41 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>o5 Subject: Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use.e) Message-ID: <3C34795C.8E791CA4@Omond.net>d   Dean Woodward wrote:   > Jeremy Begg wrote: > > N > > To "use the box at work to run a simple database package" you would need aN > > database package.  There are *no* free database packages for OpenVMS (fromQ > > Compaq or anyone else) unless you consider RMS a database package.  You mightn2 > > like to ask Oracle or Intersystems about that. >yI > RMS can be a lot more of a database package than what I've seen on un*x3I > systems- even bigger ones, production systems- *billing* systems- whichy1 > are nothing but masses of organized text files.   F Coupled, of course, with LIBRARIAN and you can with very little effort- put together a pretty damned powerful system.p  N Done that, doing it at present for a pretty important customer here in the UK.N It's a tribute to VMS that they've decided to use VMS as the, ahem, "database"L for a large bunch of big Tru64 machines (quite a number of WildFires), *and** they have Oracle on the Tru64 machines :-)  	 Roy Omond@ Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:56:02 GMTm4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>5 Subject: Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use.a0 Message-ID: <3C347E55.4644538F@blueyonder.co.uk>   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Dean Woodward wrote: >  > > Jeremy Begg wrote: > > >gP > > > To "use the box at work to run a simple database package" you would need aP > > > database package.  There are *no* free database packages for OpenVMS (fromS > > > Compaq or anyone else) unless you consider RMS a database package.  You mighte4 > > > like to ask Oracle or Intersystems about that. > >mK > > RMS can be a lot more of a database package than what I've seen on un*x K > > systems- even bigger ones, production systems- *billing* systems- which 3 > > are nothing but masses of organized text files.t > H > Coupled, of course, with LIBRARIAN and you can with very little effort/ > put together a pretty damned powerful system.d > P > Done that, doing it at present for a pretty important customer here in the UK.P > It's a tribute to VMS that they've decided to use VMS as the, ahem, "database"N > for a large bunch of big Tru64 machines (quite a number of WildFires), *and*, > they have Oracle on the Tru64 machines :-)  P Roy, I hope your rate reflects the savings they are making by not having Oracle  on VMS too :-)   regards. >  > Roy Omondi > Blue Bubble Ltd.   -- I Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  u  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of s! my employers or service provider.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:06:10 +0000  From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>h5 Subject: Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use.n) Message-ID: <3C348171.6597B983@Omond.net>a   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Roy Omond wrote: > >x > [... snip ...] > >aJ > > Coupled, of course, with LIBRARIAN and you can with very little effort1 > > put together a pretty damned powerful system.h > >jR > > Done that, doing it at present for a pretty important customer here in the UK.R > > It's a tribute to VMS that they've decided to use VMS as the, ahem, "database"P > > for a large bunch of big Tru64 machines (quite a number of WildFires), *and*. > > they have Oracle on the Tru64 machines :-) > Q > Roy, I hope your rate reflects the savings they are making by not having Oracle  > on VMS too :-)  N Sure Tim !  I'm doing it for free out of sheer delight at working with VMS :-)   Best for the new Year,  Roy.  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 01:50:22 -0800n% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>sY Subject: Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use. ( was:  VMS as a career move ) moveQ) Message-ID: <3C34295E.4E2DECAA@rdrop.com>3   Jeremy Begg wrote: > L > To "use the box at work to run a simple database package" you would need aL > database package.  There are *no* free database packages for OpenVMS (fromO > Compaq or anyone else) unless you consider RMS a database package.  You mightc0 > like to ask Oracle or Intersystems about that.  G RMS can be a lot more of a database package than what I've seen on un*xdG systems- even bigger ones, production systems- *billing* systems- whichg1 are nothing but masses of organized text files.  e   YConceptOfADatabaseMV...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:23:59 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>AY Subject: Re: VMS for hobbyists : barriers to its use. ( was:  VMS as a career move ) move 2 Message-ID: <3C348534.15825B25@clarityconnect.com>  + Have you checked out Mimer, www.mimer.com ?b   Jeremy Begg wrote:L > To "use the box at work to run a simple database package" you would need aL > database package.  There are *no* free database packages for OpenVMS (fromO > Compaq or anyone else) unless you consider RMS a database package.  You might= > like to ask Oracle or  > Intersystems about that.   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:47:20 -0800:& From: mike.focke@wang.com (mike focke)H Subject: Re: VMS on more common hardware (was Re: VMS as a career move )= Message-ID: <33473f3a.0201030847.121e76e2@posting.google.com>s  E > Multics ( arguably a far more sophisticated and more secure os than3G > VMS ) has been ported to the 86x platform. You can buy it as the STOPt? > operating system running on XTS-300s ( based on a Pentium 2 )M; > It has been evaluated as fulfilling B3 security criteria.PA > It is interesting that you can run Unix and DOS programs on it.e  F In the mid to late 80's, Multics was ported to an Intel platform underA the name of Opus by some group in New York (I believe).  This waslB after HIS had basically given up the claim to the Multics OS (soldB it).  To the best of my knowledge, Opus was never completed to the" point of being a released product.  D The current XTS product is the grandson of SCOMP, which started withE STOP 2.1 on custom built hardware. Each name change (SCOMP to XTS 200-@ to XTS 300 to the to-be-released XTS 400) reflects a significantE change in both OS architecture and hardware platform. The XTS 200 wasDE on a HIS/Bull DPS 6000, the XTS 300 on Intel x86 systems. The XTS 400r@ will be released on unannounced Xeon supporting 2GHz+ supporting@ systems with a Linux-compatible API.  The lineage is as follows:   SCOMP with STOP 2.1 (12/1984)0% First A1 Orange Book evaluated systemr   XTS 200 STOP 3.1.E (5/1992)V+ First General Purpose B3 evaluated platform@# XTS 200 RAMP to STOP 3.2.E (3/1994)c  8 XTS 300 RAMP to STOP 4.1.A (5/1995) and update (10/1995)9 Intel (486) based with outboard communications subsystemse# Intel Binary Compatible and BSD APIe   XTS 300 Evolutionw? PI RAMP to STOP 4.4.2  133/166 Mhz processor and onboard TCP/IPW (3/1998)A PII/PIII RAMP to STOP 5.2.E - 333/500 Mhz Dual processor (5/2000)oD first OS to receive evaluation when connected to two different level networks   XTS 400 with STOP 6.0 D Linux API to enter Common Criteria/NIAP evaluation by end of 2002 at EAL4 or higher.u  C As of today, the XTS 300 is on the EPL at the B3 level, and is veryNE much in production and operational use by hundreds of customers using/ many accredited applications./  = STOP 6.0, the Linux API OS intended for the XTS 400, is todayuD demonstrable and will be released in a limited BETA form by mid-2002F when the Intel hardware is finally available.  STOP 6.0 imitates Linux" but doesn't use Linux kernel code.  ? Please contact Mike Focke (Mike.Focke@GetronicsGov.com)with any9% questions or interest in the product.t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:04:57 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>wH Subject: RE: VMS on more common hardware (was Re: VMS as a career move )9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEIADNAA.tom@kednos.com>n  C The closest thing to Multics these days is VOS on Stratus.  Most of') their developers came out of Tech Square.   J Just to complete the history, what is the connection to Wang -> getronics?   > -----Original Message-----/ > From: mike focke [mailto:mike.focke@wang.com]h* > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 8:47 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComyJ > Subject: Re: VMS on more common hardware (was Re: VMS as a career move ) >  > G > > Multics ( arguably a far more sophisticated and more secure os thanlI > > VMS ) has been ported to the 86x platform. You can buy it as the STOPeA > > operating system running on XTS-300s ( based on a Pentium 2 )-= > > It has been evaluated as fulfilling B3 security criteria.pC > > It is interesting that you can run Unix and DOS programs on it.e > H > In the mid to late 80's, Multics was ported to an Intel platform underC > the name of Opus by some group in New York (I believe).  This was.D > after HIS had basically given up the claim to the Multics OS (soldD > it).  To the best of my knowledge, Opus was never completed to the$ > point of being a released product. > F > The current XTS product is the grandson of SCOMP, which started withG > STOP 2.1 on custom built hardware. Each name change (SCOMP to XTS 200rB > to XTS 300 to the to-be-released XTS 400) reflects a significantG > change in both OS architecture and hardware platform. The XTS 200 waseG > on a HIS/Bull DPS 6000, the XTS 300 on Intel x86 systems. The XTS 400eB > will be released on unannounced Xeon supporting 2GHz+ supportingB > systems with a Linux-compatible API.  The lineage is as follows: >  > SCOMP with STOP 2.1 (12/1984)s' > First A1 Orange Book evaluated system  >  > XTS 200 STOP 3.1.E (5/1992)h- > First General Purpose B3 evaluated platformp% > XTS 200 RAMP to STOP 3.2.E (3/1994)n > : > XTS 300 RAMP to STOP 4.1.A (5/1995) and update (10/1995); > Intel (486) based with outboard communications subsystemsa% > Intel Binary Compatible and BSD API  >  > XTS 300 EvolutionsA > PI RAMP to STOP 4.4.2  133/166 Mhz processor and onboard TCP/IP 
 > (3/1998)C > PII/PIII RAMP to STOP 5.2.E - 333/500 Mhz Dual processor (5/2000)cF > first OS to receive evaluation when connected to two different level
 > networks >  > XTS 400 with STOP 6.0 F > Linux API to enter Common Criteria/NIAP evaluation by end of 2002 at > EAL4 or higher.2 > E > As of today, the XTS 300 is on the EPL at the B3 level, and is veryeG > much in production and operational use by hundreds of customers using  > many accredited applications.o > ? > STOP 6.0, the Linux API OS intended for the XTS 400, is today:F > demonstrable and will be released in a limited BETA form by mid-2002H > when the Intel hardware is finally available.  STOP 6.0 imitates Linux$ > but doesn't use Linux kernel code. > A > Please contact Mike Focke (Mike.Focke@GetronicsGov.com)with any ' > questions or interest in the product.e >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:29:45 -0500s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p Subject: Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Errori, Message-ID: <3C342451.3287F36E@videotron.ca>   Ed Wilts wrote:eK > Nope, but the pizza box drive shelf will will hold an RZ26 just fine :-).p* > No home should be without the pizza box!  @ RZ drives are not much use on a MicrovaxII without a SCSI board.  K I would suggest that you acquire a Q-BUS->SCSI board (DILOG SQ739 or CMD ortN other) for the microvax II, at which point you can hook in a CD rom as well asL a SCSI Disk drive (and even those woudl need to be scsi 1 or SCSI 2, nothing
 more recent).6  K Failing that, it would be cheaper to get a microvax 3100 which has built-in N scsi and you can then plg in drives and cd-rom. (and with this node, you couldN boot the microvaxII off the ethernet and use the RD43 as a paging file disk.).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:38:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: VMS V7.3 SPD ErrorP, Message-ID: <3C342677.397F8B4C@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:> > So what Q-Bus SCSI controller is supported for disk by VMS ?  M I have a DILOG SQ 739 SCSI controller, had it for over a decade now. Once youaL figure out the adresses to branch to to get to its console/configuration, itK runs quite fine. Of course, it is SCSI-1. I have 2 SCSI drives (one from anlL old mac, 250 meg), and a Fujitzu 670meg (also dating from the SQ739 days) as% well as a Digital RRD42 CD-rom on it.o  ? This controller makes the drives appear as MSCP devices (RA8x).e  L Only weird stuff I had was with an old version of ALL-IN-1 which, during itsJ startup, woudl generate a bunch of disk errors, the problem went away withK V3.1 of A1. It was some weird IO with odd byte counts that generated those.a   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 12:00:19 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: VMS V7.3 SPD Errorl3 Message-ID: <tRTllcjOKIrp@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  N In article <a0t0gf$451$1@news1.xs4all.nl>, William <wilby98@yahoo.com> writes:2 > This thread was posted several months ago. I was7 > curious if VMS V7.3 has become available in any otherv3 > media besides CD. I may soon acquire a MicroVAXIIa* > and would like to install OpenVMS on it.  B    I received a copy of VMS 7.3 binary for VAX on 9 track when theH    fellow who ordered it moved to another project.  With a full hardcopy-    doc set, it shows part number QA-001AA-WM.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:10:41 -0800l' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>B8 Subject: Re: Why did universities abandon VMS for Unix ?+ Message-ID: <3C349091.FAA394BC@caltech.edu>-  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:  O > There are some flaws in the EDU license program, but it's a step in the right J > direction.  For our purposes, it made VMS Alpha systems cost the same as= > Linux-based Alpha systems, which was a definite Good Thing.t  N _Some_ flaws??????  I cannot see how you're able to use it at your site AT ALL	 since the4O license terms are quite clear in forbidding its use for anything remotely worth  doing.L Or has the Q finally modified the license agreement to allow real work to be performed on machines using these licenses?  L For me the EDU program was the final straw.  It was an insulting charade - a
 false prophetpP which neither replaced nor complemented the ESL/CSLG.  If you want to see how an	 excellentrO educational program can be put together just look at Sun's effort.  It's cheap,n and itL was completely trivial to sign up, download the software, and install it.  I still thinkhL Solaris is a second rate OS but it's a second rate OS I can do real work on, which is sadly nos longer true for VMS.  M Compaq is a company whose motto should be "we just can't get it done".  Theiro educationaliI programs reflect this every bit as much as their money losing PC efforts.k     Regards,     David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 03 Jan 02 09:44:09 GMT. From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: Why did universities abandon VMS for Unix ? ( was Re: VMS on more common hary+ Message-ID: <a11gjk$1s3$3@bob.news.rcn.net>S  > In article <NeRY7.14869$726.5973779@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>,&    GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> wrote: >Paul Cooke wrote: >  >> Doc. Cypher wrote:- >> -> >>>The decline of VMS in education has a great deal to do with? >>>the general decline of the operating system. Students become ? >>>decision-makers and, in my opinion, Compaq fail to see this.@A >>>I'd like to see Compaq donating hardware and software licensesn? >>>to colleges and universities, but there seems little hope of.B >>>such radical marketing. After all, that is a long-term strategy6 >>>which doesn't yield results in the current quarter. >> nJ >> so why are Microsoft being "punished" by "donating" lots of software to >> schools?? >wJ >Because they are a monopoly for starters, and it seems to follow from an J >old catholic saying "Give me your children and they'll stay catholic for L >the rest of their life".  Which means that M$ would be biasing a whole new > >generation of kids towards the one-microsoft-way of thinking.  7 Um...nitpik.  With Misoft, there's no thinking allowed.e   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.n   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:56:55 +0000 (UTC)/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise  of compa 3 Message-ID: <1010073413.645851@haldjas.folklore.ee>g  6 In comp.arch Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:- > (alleged to Confuzius, though I doubt that)b   > Beware of:  J > * People who think that having played computer games to excess qualifies > as "computer expert".   F * People who think that recompiling the Linux kernel N number of times# qualifies them as "computer expert"t   > -- t > Bernd Paysan9 > "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"p > http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/   -- h 	Sandere   +++ Out of cheese error +++t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:02:41 +0100b3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com>*Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of compa -- Message-ID: <3C345671.898332FF@hda.hydro.com>:   Charlie Gibbs wrote: > A > In article <a0u6qs$qqe$0@216.39.146.95> iking@killthewabbit.orgs > (Ian King) writes: > D > >Ah, extremes.  As a member of the 'over 40' set, I don't think myG > >thinking is crusted over; much of the technology I work with was not"G > >in existence a year ago, and one of the great joys of my job is that F > >I must constantly learn new things in order to remain effective and > >current.  > E > As a member of the "over 40" set myself, I too still enjoy learninghD > new things.  But I've gotten selective; I'll learn new things thatE > are actually useful, rather than the latest fad.  For example, when B > it comes to networking, you'll find me working to understand theD > nuts and bolts of TCP/IP, rather than figuring out which button to/ > push on the latest version of LookOut Excess.t  C I mostly agree with that, however it is still a lot of fun to learn D something totally useless every once in a while, i.e. like getting a= unicycle from my father-in-law for Christmas a few years ago:   C Learning to ride it took about 5 hours, another week or two to feeli4 confident enough to ride it to work (up & downhill).  D Is it useful knowledge? Probably not: I use 16 minutes to walk to myB office, 13 minutes on the unicycle (but then I'm a bit warm when I. arrive), and less than 5 on a regular MT bike.  H I hope I'll still enjoy learning new things until the day I die. My roleG model is the 95-year old guy who take part in the Veterans World Cup in-C Orienteering: If I can a) read a map and understand it, and b) move C around in a forest without help at that age, I'll be satisfied. :-)b   Terjeo   -- e  - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:52:36 +0100w* From: Patrick Moreau <pmoreau@ath.cena.fr># Subject: [DECWarch] New Year update * Message-ID: <3C346224.6050403@ath.cena.fr>   Hi all,n  K 4 new or updated freewares are available at the DECwindows Archive, at url:s   http://decwarch.free.fr/  E XFORGE 0.2.2 : a graphical sound file editor supporting mono, stereo,rF Sun audio files, RIFF Microsoft files (WAV) , MAC/SGI AIFF and raw pcmH files. Many trasnforms and filters are available (echo, reverb, inverter	 etc ...).t  I   XLOCKMORE 5.02 : the new version of the famous screen saver and locker,iF ported on VMS by Jouk Jansen (I've also made a few mods). The previousG version on the archive has a broken timer function, this one is OK.Some0 new & interesting modes ...a  L TIMIDITY 2001 PATCHES : a new set of sound samples for Timidity Midi player.  > ALTRIS 1.32 : a new version of these famous Tetris-like games.   Happy New Year !!r   Patrick  -- pmoreau@ath.cena.fro moreau_p@decus.fra  http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/" http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jan 2002 08:27:45 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)c! Subject: Re: [Q]LAT QIO interfacee3 Message-ID: <nT09esAGZ$Mt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <3C2C0C11.3040700@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: > Hiroyuki Tanaka wrote:I > I am not sure how useful it is, but the specications for DECNET IV are - > available at:- > ) > ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/DECnetM > F > I have not looked at them in detail, so I do not know how well they  > cover MOP.  E    MOP is not DECnet.  It doesn't even use the same Ethernet protocol3C    number.  It just happens to be packed with DECnet by most DECnet.    vendors.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.006 ************************d need aL > database package.  There are *no* free database packages for OpenVMS (fromO > Compaq or anyone else) unless you consider RMS a database package.  You might= > like to ask Oracle or  > Intersystems about that.   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung R<    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    