0 INFO-VAX	Mon, 07 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 11      Contents:P Re: 7744           Would you like to lose weight while you sleep?                Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS Alpha 21164 and 7.3? Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3?3 Re: AMDS not recognising that there is a swap file. - Availability Manager - Show Memory View query P Re: BLISS pros and cons, was: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong   at DE> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways9 Re: Converting indexed file to sequential yields unprikw? ) DEClaser 2200 - pickup roller replacement  Re: Disk problem on DS20/KZPAC Re: Emulation.... Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds Re: MSCP serving 101 question + Re: NAT: publishing the remote IP of router + Re: NAT: publishing the remote IP of router  Re: Need Financial Help? Re: OT: Phone charges in Europe  Re: OT: Phone charges in Europe  REPLY command usage change ?P Re: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The  demise oP Re: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise ofP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The       demiseP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cP Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of c. Re: TSM Installation Problem on Alpha - Solved Re: VMS and VAX clustering$ What is the future of VMS and Alpha?( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise    of co9 Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha 9 Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha 9 Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 19:43:06 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Re: 7744           Would you like to lose weight while you sleep?                < Message-ID: <eN1_7.9218$864.83859@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  6 <3048968travelincentives2002@aol.com> wrote in message1 news:200201061534.PAA20800@dlup1.dalian.net.cn... 6 > As seen on NBC, CBS, CNN, and even Oprah! The health; > discovery that actually reverses aging while burning fat, = > without dieting or exercise! This proven discovery has even : > been reported on by the New England Journal of Medicine.9 > Forget  aging and dieting forever! And it's Guaranteed!   L Of course. It's called dumping your antiquated legacy VMS systems with racksJ and racks of modern Wintel commodityware and then spending all day runningC amongst the racks rebooting the myriad trashed and crashed systems.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:25:22 -0800 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>% Subject: Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS , Message-ID: <3C384232.26716ACA@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > & > Larry Kilgallen wrote in message ...   [text deleted]  F > >Are you _sure_ there is nobody who wanted Quicken or Microsoft WordD > >on VMS ?  I run both of those on a Macintosh, and if someone at aD > >DECUS symposium ever said "I want Quicken", you may have inferredE > >"because now I use it on Windows" whereas I know that for me it is ' > >"because now I use it on Macintosh".  > >  > E > Come on Larry.  You have no point here.  Neither of these are "Mac" K > applications.  They are Windows applications running on a Mac.  Give me a B > real Mac application.  Something that isn't a retargeted Windows > application.  H I'll be happy to.  I've turned requests for quicktime support in VMS.  IF received responses that its been turned over to someone to look at but6 have never heard what anyone thought of it after that.  B Since quicktime supports every audio and video format *I* have anyH interest in, including flash, supporting it would solve all of the audioF and video playback deficiencies of VMS, right?  (smileys for those who# can't see the intended humor here).   
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:12:17 +0100 / From: Pascale Morandi <Pascale.Morandi@Free.fr>  Subject: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? & Message-ID: <3C38A193.EC66A51@Free.fr>  8 Hi there all, Happy New Year! Long time no read/write...  E Santa Claus brought me a Digital Personal Workstation "A series" 600a N with CPU Alpha 21164 599MHz, 1024 Mo and 2 RZ1CC-BA 883F with LINUX installed.  H Can I boot a VMS 7.3 CD with this machine and have success to install my; brand new Hobbyist software by just initializing the disks?    Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:26:53 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ! Subject: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? ' Message-ID: <3C38A4FD.6ED3044A@aaa.com>   5 Hi. Not 100% sure, but if this box is the same as the 4 "AlphaStation 600A Model 5/xxx", then it seems so...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Pascale Morandi wrote: > : > Hi there all, Happy New Year! Long time no read/write... > G > Santa Claus brought me a Digital Personal Workstation "A series" 600a P > with CPU Alpha 21164 599MHz, 1024 Mo and 2 RZ1CC-BA 883F with LINUX installed. > J > Can I boot a VMS 7.3 CD with this machine and have success to install my= > brand new Hobbyist software by just initializing the disks?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 19:31:51 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) ! Subject: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? 0 Message-ID: <00A07A47.584982A8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <3C38A193.EC66A51@Free.fr>, Pascale Morandi <Pascale.Morandi@Free.fr> writes:9 >Hi there all, Happy New Year! Long time no read/write...  > F >Santa Claus brought me a Digital Personal Workstation "A series" 600aO >with CPU Alpha 21164 599MHz, 1024 Mo and 2 RZ1CC-BA 883F with LINUX installed.   A Damn... I was a good boy all year and Santa didn't bring me shit!     I >Can I boot a VMS 7.3 CD with this machine and have success to install my < >brand new Hobbyist software by just initializing the disks?   Why not?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:57:25 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) < Subject: Re: AMDS not recognising that there is a swap file.1 Message-ID: <3c38d5f4.604453818@news.wcc.govt.nz>    Steve,  ; I use the Availability Manager, so this may not be correct.   C There are some Filters, the defaults for AM were that the files are D not displayed if the usage for Page files is below 5% and Swap files
 is below 30%.   0 Are there similar fileters for the AMDS display?   Rob.    / On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:44:55 +0000, Steve Reece & <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> wrote:  > >This may have been discussed before, but I'm not as active in >comp.os.vms as I once was.... > H >Environment :  DEC 3000 model 600 workstation, OpenVMS Alpha v7.3, AMDS >v7.3  >System disk is an RZ29B. H >Page and swap files both reside in SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0.SYSEXE] as shown >in a show mem/files display : >  >$ sh mem/files A >              System Memory Resources on  3-JAN-2002 23:37:57.41  > H >Swap File Usage (8KB pages):                   Index        Free        >Size + >  DISK$AXPVMS062:[SYS0.SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS H >                                                   1        1504        >1504  > H >Paging File Usage (8KB pages):                 Index        Free        >Size + >  DISK$AXPVMS062:[SYS0.SYSEXE]PAGEFILE.SYS G >                                                 254       20992        >20992H >  Total committed paging file usage:                                    >8220  >$ >  > H >AMDS on ths other hand belives that there is no swap file installed andG >always displays the event "NOSWFL" for this node.  Trying to make sure 5 >that the swap file is mapped using MC SYSGEN INSTALL I >SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS/SWAP yields the error that the file is currently  >locked by another user :  > 1 >$ MC SYSGEN INSTALL SYS$SYSTEM:SWAPFILE.SYS/SWAP E >%SYSGEN-W-OPENIN, error opening SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SWAPFILE.SYS; as  >input2 >-RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user > B >Any ideas whether this behaviour is all to be expected or whether- >there's something specifically wrong here???  >  >Steve.  >-- H >"A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likeF >a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.B >Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"& >		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:51:15 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) 6 Subject: Availability Manager - Show Memory View query1 Message-ID: <3c38d37b.603820678@news.wcc.govt.nz>    Hi All,   E I'm running Availability Manager 2.0-1 on all nodes with the analyser  on my P.C. (an yep it's MS)   B The Memory Display on the Alpha VMS 7.3 Systems have an additional@ Memory View that the other nodes lack. (VAXes on 7.2 and 7.3 and Alphas on 7.2-1)  D All Systems are running 2.0-1 of the Collector. So, does anyone know3 where or how the additional view becomes available.   E On the non-available systems, the View tab on Memory on the collector @ screen is greyed out. On the 7.3 Alphas you get an option of the" Memory Summary and Memory Details.   TIA    Rob.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 14:56:17 -0500 ' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> Y Subject: Re: BLISS pros and cons, was: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong   at DE * Message-ID: <3C38ABE1.CAA125EE@Empire.Net>  8 Yes, I am JBS.  DJS is Dan Szymanski, the project leader7 between Bob Kushlis and myself.  It was Dan who divided 9 the code into one routine per module, so we could overlay ) it on the PDP-11.  STS must have been one 4 of the people who worked on the EDT project with me,6 but I am embarrassed to say that I cannot remember her4 name!  In looking through the sources I see that the4 other sets of initials are SMB and TMV.  I think SMB6 was Sharon Burlingame.  She was a synchronized swimmer6 who later became a good friend of the TPU developer.   TMV also draws a blank.   7 From looking at DATA.BLI I found that line numbers were 0 stored in 72 bits, with 18 of them being unused.   Thanks for the memory.%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 22:13:08 GMT ( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the 2 Message-ID: <a1ai5k$1ti1$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  B In article <uySZ7.248050$Zd.21766153@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote: K >Then again, unless you carefully lay out your code such that related areas L >will be paged in together by whatever clustering algorithm the VM uses, theG >TKB approach can often offer better performance (though of course with * >significantly higher development effort).  J Well, yes, but even there it takes less effort to figure out how to shrinkI the working set by taking advantage of that kind of relationship using VM H and traces than it does to figure it out by trial and error using TKB. IF mean, what you're doing in both cases is really the same thing, right?  I And if it turns out performance is good enough, you can spend the time on / something else that gives a bigger win instead.    --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 01:57:00 GMT & From: "Felger Carbon" <fmrfne@jps.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways E Message-ID: <Mf7_7.9209$Vz3.1079597@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   6 Keith R. Williams <krw@attglobal.net> wrote in message@ > I find this amusing, since CISC turned to RISC to maintain itsB > market.  Look into any CISC processor and it looks pretty RISCy.  J Hoo boy.  Is a microprocessor defined by its Instruction Set Architecture,I or by how it executes the ISA - its implementation?  CISC processors have L seldom executed instructions directly.  In the early 1980s time period, CISCI processors (the ones with CISC ISAs) were microprogrammed.  At this time, L CISC processors are implemented by mostly breaking complex instructions down! into simpler "RISC" instructions.   K I hypothesize that if that makes current x86 micros "RISC" processors, then L there has _never_ been a CISC x86 processor, because the _implementation_ ofK x86 processors has always involved breaking instructions down into a series  of simple steps.  H Well, it's been a while since the RISC-CISC wars were fought in this NG.I What I'm asking is, "Has there _ever_ been a true CISC x86 processor?  If I so, why are current x86 processors not considered to be CISCs, aside from H the fact that there are a lot of former Taliban - excuse me, former RISCH supporters - out there who don't like the fact that they wound up on theA wrong side, as their worthless stock options conclusively prove?"   @ This is comp.arch.  Isn't it true that a micro's instruction set< architecture, and not its implementation, defines the micro?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 14:15:45 -0800 * From: cgilley@bravewc.com (Charles Gilley)B Subject: Re: Converting indexed file to sequential yields unprikw?= Message-ID: <139d5a58.0201061415.652f67c8@posting.google.com>   u system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote in message news:<00A07A28.77C0A54E@SendSpamHere.ORG>... l > In article <139d5a58.0201060559.40212572@posting.google.com>, cgilley@bravewc.com (Charles Gilley) writes:5 > >This really should be simple, but my vms is fuzzy. 7 > >I have an indexed file that I am porting to PC-land. @ > >All I want to do is dump the file, so off I go to convert to > > >sequential format.  But, the convert yields unprikw errors. > >  > >What are these? > >  > >chg >  > ? >  UNPRIKW,  unrecognized primary keyword in statement 'number'  >            'reference-text'  > $ >   Facility:     FDL, FDL Utilities > + >   Explanation:  A keyword was misspelled.  > 7 >   User Action:  Correct the spelling in the FDL file. 8 >                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    F Errr...  oops.  I interpreted the message to mean something wrong withF the file.  Interestingly, I editted the fdl file with edit/fdl, so I'm; not sure how I managed to munge it.  On to other things....    Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:51:54 +0000 1 From: Steve Reece <SYSTEM@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk> 2 Subject: DEClaser 2200 - pickup roller replacement6 Message-ID: <3C389CCA.11701F1D@ipl.demon.co.nospam.uk>   Hiya, D Does anyone know the recommended way of replacing the pickup rollers+ (upper and lower trays) in a DEClaser 2200?   G I have such a printer that's forever indicating paper jams as the sheet G is half way into the printer which I figure is probably a sign that the A pickup roller needs replacing.  Feeding single sheets manually is1
 generally ok.e  B I've got another printer (a 2100) with better rollers in it so I'mG planning on butchering the 2100 to restore the 2200 to its former glorydF (especially since I want a printer with duplex rather than just single	 sided...)s   Thanks in advance. Steve.   -- rG "A shadow fell over her face; clear, as if the composure were rent likeiE a veil.  And her lips parted, but only with a short intake of breath.eA Then she said, 'Well, then you are right.  Indeed, we are even.'"e% 		Louis, "Interview with the Vampire"    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 12:27:13 -0700V1 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)e' Subject: Re: Disk problem on DS20/KZPACr, Message-ID: <MBVS25WMeIzH@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  6 In article <1020106122315.56656A-100000@Ives.egh.com>,(       John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:  > >>    I tried taking an already built system disk from another> >> system and connected it to the KZPAC ( configured as a JBOD > < > Sorry to jump in with no useful information, but what doesA > "JBOD" mean?  I've seen it used lots of times and from context, ? > I guess it means something like "Just a Bunch Of Disks", i.e.l( > no RAID, striping, shadowing, etc...         Yep, that's what it means. >  > Is the SCSI termination okay?   :    As far as I can tell. The terminator is connected but I< suppose there's no way without special tools to tell if it's actually working properly.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jan 2002 06:35:09 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)r Subject: Re: Emulation...n5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-NdNQ2w1edoTq@localhost>x  ) On Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:17:34, Carl Nelson e( <carl.nelson@mcmail.maricopa.edu> wrote:    > <snip>  W >   Could I run Charon-VAX on the emulated PC running windows 2000 on my Macintosh? I'm T > not asking about performance, which will probably be truly unamazing. Just if it'sX > possible. I like the idea of opening my laptop Mac, booting windows in emulation, then8 > booting VMS. Watching my boss's head start spinning... >  > Couldn't resist.  D You never know, I used to run the CP-M/86 Z80 emulator under MS-DOS D using the CP-M/86 emulator on my Rainbow years ago. Performance was  not astounding, however,..  B i.e. MS-DOS -> CP/M-86 -> CP/M-80, all using NEC's V20 8088 clone.   -- h Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:34:22 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>V7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!e' Message-ID: <3C38DFB7.905B4334@fsi.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:o > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C36B308.4D4645EF@videotron.ca... > > David Froble wrote: M > > > Will Intel be pleased to see one high end box replace many small boxes? * > > >   Not sure.  The bottom line is $$$. > >lK > > in the wintel world, profits are not important, market share is. moving. > 100 H > > unprofitable PCs looks better than selling a single large profitable > Alpha. >  > Looks better to whom?s >  > Michael Capellas?  >  > Compaq's stockholders? >  > Intel's stockholders?a  C Tough call there, Terry. The market seems to speak in strange ways.s   -- h David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:39:16 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!d' Message-ID: <3C38E0DD.2F981FCC@fsi.net>-   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e > 7 > "David Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message.( > news:3C3694D6.8010706@tsoft-inc.com...
 > > [snip]K > > I wonder how they will handle this.  With VMS the problem was reversed.tK > >   DEC didn't want a large number of small VMS systems to replace one oruH > > a few large (and expensive) systems.  The result was low end VMS not > > being priced competitively.s > >d > F > This will change when $999 IPF boxes become available down the road.  > ...and when they do appear, what are the chances of them beingC VMS-capable? ...and for those that are (if any), how many orders of B magnitude greater (than $999) will the price of a (commercial) VMS license be for that box?  F Affordable hardware is one thing. Affordable OpenVMS is something else	 entirely.t   -- a David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 04:56:58 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!e. Message-ID: <uU9_7.19334$Sf2.184315@rwcrnsc52>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C38DFB7.905B4334@fsi.net...e > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >k> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3C36B308.4D4645EF@videotron.ca... > > > David Froble wrote:dH > > > > Will Intel be pleased to see one high end box replace many small boxes?, > > > >   Not sure.  The bottom line is $$$. > > >oF > > > in the wintel world, profits are not important, market share is. moving > > 100eJ > > > unprofitable PCs looks better than selling a single large profitable
 > > Alpha. > >a > > Looks better to whom?t > >a > > Michael Capellas?t > >t > > Compaq's stockholders? > >r > > Intel's stockholders?d >sE > Tough call there, Terry. The market seems to speak in strange ways.  >   I Yeah, that they do. But I gotta admit, Compaq stock has been really greatmL for me! Why, by selling the 500 shares I dumped in the past week, I can take0 the maximum capital loss for both CY01 and CY02.   Thank you, Compaq!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 19:22:04 -0000l/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>e: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <u3h8usrrf40e5e@corp.supernews.com>   Q In comp.os.vms Craig A. Berry <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote:  :> What *is* the ^ doing there?i  J : The ^ is hardly random. It's exactly where it belongs and its meaning isK : well documented. See the OpenVMS Guide to Extended File Specifications at-E : <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6536/6536pro_index.html>H3 : and look for "circumflex character" in the index.:   Thanks.4   -- 3 -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:24:49 -0000,/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>:: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <u3hg51gvs6fh74@corp.supernews.com>W  Q In comp.os.vms Craig A. Berry <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote:   :> :>    3) rename/log t.t t.w.tS :> :>    %RENAME-I-RENAMED, USER1:[KOEHLER]t.t;1 renamed to USER1:[KOEHLER]t^.w.t;1 N :> :>    ^ is the escape character which the file system uses to show that theK :> :>    first . is not the name.extension separator, but you don't have tot8 :> :>    enter it when you're handling the file by name. :>  J :> : Strike three.  There's this random ^ character inserted in the output
 :> : name. :> c :> What *is* the ^ doing there?h    J : The ^ is hardly random. It's exactly where it belongs and its meaning isK : well documented. See the OpenVMS Guide to Extended File Specifications at:  E : <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/6536/6536pro_index.html>f3 : and look for "circumflex character" in the index.   ? What's not clear from that URL is when does one need to or wheneB can someone specifiy the circumflex.  The $RENAME exaaple providedA in this thread  shows that it needn't be specified for the output3A filename on $rename... but what about the input filename?  Do the  circumflexes need to be there?  ? I ask because if code gets the filename and it has circumflexes > in it, then maybe it needs to strip them out before processing ... or maybe not?s   --   -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 22:40:50 GMTS( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1ajpi$1ue7$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  8 In article <z4QZ7.679$Kf.12054@ord-read.news.verio.net>,  <robert@bonomi.invalid> wrote: M >Whereupon, one is either into 'context-sensitive' wild-card expansion (whereSJ >"*.foo *.bar" means one thing to 'wc', and something else to 'copy'), or J >silliness like  "(.foo|.bar)"  for 'anything that matches either suffix'.  > A lot of Amiga programs didn't accept "#?.foo #?.bar" for thatA reason, you actually had to use "#?.foo|#?.bar" (I think that was  the syntax).  B Another reason for handling wildcards the UNIX way is security. If@ a a program you're passing a string to is not going to interpret= the string as shell level metadata, you don't need to try andiB duplicate the metadata semantics of the shell/DCL/whatever to keep) someone from slipping an exploit through.N  @ Of course this doesn't always work, especially when you're usingA a scripting language like Perl that doesn't let you build an argvL@ explicitly. One reason I prefer using Tcl for CGI even if it's a
 bit of a hog.E   -- F@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:14:39 -0400c+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>v: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC0 Message-ID: <3C38940F.D08697F@trailing-edge.com>   robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:H > In the UNIX world, by default, the 'command' never sees wildcards. AllK > wildcard 'expansion' is done by the command-line-interpreter, in a single H > consistent manner.  One instance of the code, One pattern of behavior.N > Universally _consistent_ behavior.  smaller, simpler, code for the commands,F > as they _do_not_ have to be aware of *anything* regarding wildcards.  B Yeah, that works real good.  Several times a week I get calls from users who wanted to type     tar cvf whatever.tar *.c  A to put their source files into a tar set.  But instead they typede  
   tar cvf *.cy  - and find their first source file is now gone.s  < A few (but not all) modern C compiler drivers do look at the' command line to prevent you from typingo     cc -o source.c -lm   when you really meante     cc -o executable source.c -lm   = So the Unix user is stuck in this strange no-man's-land whereaA some programs do look at the command line to prevent stupid usersu@ from clobbering input files just because the argument was in theA wrong place, and other programs go ahead and do clobber the file.   @ Of course, we're all computing professionals and none of us have. ever made a mistake typing a command line :-).   Tim.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 18:37:14 -0500( From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@iquest.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC4 Message-ID: <sb5_7.1052$Pe5.187106@news1.iquest.net>  8 "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote in message* news:3C38940F.D08697F@trailing-edge.com... > robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:J > > In the UNIX world, by default, the 'command' never sees wildcards. AllM > > wildcard 'expansion' is done by the command-line-interpreter, in a singleiJ > > consistent manner.  One instance of the code, One pattern of behavior.P > > Universally _consistent_ behavior.  smaller, simpler, code for the commands,H > > as they _do_not_ have to be aware of *anything* regarding wildcards. >eD > Yeah, that works real good.  Several times a week I get calls from > users who wanted to type >. >   tar cvf whatever.tar *.c >ZC > to put their source files into a tar set.  But instead they typeds >e >   tar cvf *.c  >i/ > and find their first source file is now gone.a >eB I almost always use rcs with an RCS subdir when writing nontrivial? code.   This provides alot of backup capability, without excessoK version-itis.   Also, I have a script for vim (vi clone) that automatically K maintains last versions.   Luckily, I haven't had to access my last versionhF directory for the last year or so :-).   However, RCS is a useful tool@ during coding and subsequent maintenance of non-trivial (but notE huge) projects.   Larger projects can take advantage of more completeg) source code control (or version control.)   E It is often easy to destroy recent work, no matter the OS.   Frankly,iA tar is one of the programs that doesn't even adhere to the normal 
 switch usage.   ? There are often exceptions to the rules, but one cannot protecth; users from self-destructive behavior.   However, the simple-@ expansion provided by shell, if properly explained, is alot more5 consistant than the semantics provided by the programl expansion schemes.   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:28:03 -0700n+ From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC, Message-ID: <3C38DD83.E7247B01@jetnet.ab.ca>   Tim Shoppa wrote: B > Of course, we're all computing professionals and none of us have0 > ever made a mistake typing a command line :-).  1  <point> <click> <click> <point> <point> <click> h   ... uhh whats a comand line  :)   -- l% Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *C+ www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.htmli   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 17:28:52 -0600s From: rivie@cougar.no.domain: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <slrna3ho17.ag8.rivie@cougar.no.domain>s   Robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:F > If one has a -recurring- need to mass-rename by arbitrary extension,D > then creating the following routine *once*  provides the requisite > functionality: >  >            #!/bin/csh  > ! >            foreach file ( *$1 ) . >               mv $file `basename $file $1`$2 >            end  C Until it runs into a filename with a space in it or one that starts,B with '-'. Happens to me all the time, although it seems to be muchH worse on systems which are acting as file servers for Mac folks (there's> one fellow in the office who insists on making frequently usedG directories sort to the top of the directory list by tossing a space ons the front of the filename).e  C I'm probably simply dense, but I've never found a reasonable way of-G dealing with filenames that have spaces in Unix. Just when I think I've B got it figured out, something will break. I've not found a quotingG scheme that works in all situations; put quotes around it or escape theeG space and you're only fine until you pass it into a script which passesn, it along in the manner of the above snippet. -- .
 Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu0    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!y> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 18:51:50 -0500( From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@iquest.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC4 Message-ID: <8p5_7.1054$Pe5.187142@news1.iquest.net>  ) <rivie@cougar.no.domain> wrote in message - news:slrna3ho17.ag8.rivie@cougar.no.domain...  > Robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:H > > If one has a -recurring- need to mass-rename by arbitrary extension,F > > then creating the following routine *once*  provides the requisite > > functionality: > >s > >            #!/bin/csh  > > # > >            foreach file ( *$1 )h0 > >               mv $file `basename $file $1`$2 > >            end > E > Until it runs into a filename with a space in it or one that startseD > with '-'. Happens to me all the time, although it seems to be muchJ > worse on systems which are acting as file servers for Mac folks (there's@ > one fellow in the office who insists on making frequently usedI > directories sort to the top of the directory list by tossing a space onl > the front of the filename).  > = There are numerous end cases in both OSes, but when somethingh? is as general as UNIX wrt naming, there can always be eccentric  situations.h  A Perhaps the most general case requires a bit more care, but using1@ 'wildcards' with naming oddities or not knowing the names of theJ files being transferred (unless it is a purely bulk transfer) is dangerous NO MATTER THE OS.   A Blanks in names are best handled with proper quoting, and the useeE of a production quality shell.   There are also tricks like prefixing L filenames by './' if it is clear that it is a relative filename, in the mostE general case.   Careful use of the "'" or '"' characters is also besthG understood when using ksh type shells.   Using legacy shells is lookingV> for trouble, not because they are 'bad', but because they makeC remembering the variations more difficult.   I tend to limit myselfuD to 'Bourne shell', but expand to 'Korn shell' when I need to.   ThisD is especially good now since Korn shell is available in source form.  A Frankly, these are relatively non-issues, since there are people,a9 like me, who have had TOO MUCH zeal from both standpointsn> (both the DEC and UNIX ways), and frankly, I find the UNIX wayA to be more consistant.   It can bite you (and has bitten me), bute so can the DEC way.   A One nice thing that has happened in NT recently is the ability tou< mount filesystems below the root, so that everything is more< consistantly named.   It is probably true that VMS has added> that feature (I don't really know), but is one thing that addsB consistancy to the naming.   I don't see that filesystem namespaceD segmentation is helpful at all.   This is one of the 'nits' that has; bothered me when playing with the DEC10 emulators...   BTW,v8 it is WONDERFUL to play with TOPS10 again, and then look> at it with many more years of experience and exposure to other kinds of software!!!   John   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 04:59:13 GMTn From: robert@bonomi.invalidn: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <BW9_7.730$Kf.13223@ord-read.news.verio.net>  0 In article <3C38940F.D08697F@trailing-edge.com>,- Tim Shoppa  <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:o >robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:eI >> In the UNIX world, by default, the 'command' never sees wildcards. AlluL >> wildcard 'expansion' is done by the command-line-interpreter, in a singleI >> consistent manner.  One instance of the code, One pattern of behavior. O >> Universally _consistent_ behavior.  smaller, simpler, code for the commands, G >> as they _do_not_ have to be aware of *anything* regarding wildcards.r > C >Yeah, that works real good.  Several times a week I get calls from  >users who wanted to typee >e >  tar cvf whatever.tar *.c3 >fB >to put their source files into a tar set.  But instead they typed >o >  tar cvf *.c >t. >and find their first source file is now gone. >.= >A few (but not all) modern C compiler drivers do look at thee( >command line to prevent you from typing >  >  cc -o source.c -lmb >o >when you really meant >n  >  cc -o executable source.c -lm >p> >So the Unix user is stuck in this strange no-man's-land whereB >some programs do look at the command line to prevent stupid usersA >from clobbering input files just because the argument was in theoB >wrong place, and other programs go ahead and do clobber the file. >eA >Of course, we're all computing professionals and none of us havep/ >ever made a mistake typing a command line :-).f  J UNIX was developed from the premise of "the user *knows* what he's doing".G and geerally makes no attempt to second-guess what the user 'intended'.   I A side-effect of this is that it will "cheerfully give you enough rope toy hang yourself".  e    I I've used systems that second-guessed my intentions.  And would *not* let K me do things that the designer deemed was 'not reasonable'.   Almost invar-0D iably, those kind of systems prevent me from doing something that I K *delibertely* want to do, in a particular 'special set of conditions' case.bF It _is_ 'probably an error', in the 'general case'. however, in =this=H instance it *is* what I want to do.  And _can't_.  I'ts just impossible." the system *won't* let me do it.    M I *WANT* a system that _will_ "do what I tell it to,  reasonable or not".  If J I screw up -- and I *do* -- I _know_ where the fault lies.   Incidentally,J "unblunted sword" does tend to ecourage one to be much more religous aboutD things like _backups_.   This is not altogether a bad thing.  <grin>  H For 'skilled users' -- the original target audience for UNIX -- the pro-K ductivity increase due to an O/S that a) stays out of your way, and b) justaL _does_ what you tell it; it does _more_than_ offset the lost time from those/ occasions where it does 'rear up and bite you'.M  M The 'newcomers' that are building 'reasonableness checks' into the compilers, H mentioned above, are _not_ doing their users any real favor.   There is N established literature, in the field of user-interface design, on this point. K Some of the early discussion/research can be found under the topic of "why "' 'alias  rm   rm -i' is a Bad Idea(tm)".m   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:03:07 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>n9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsb5 Message-ID: <3C389F6B.1524EEAA@swissonline.delete.ch>p   Hi John,  # Yes, it would be a very smart move.   " - financial analysts would love it% - industry commentators would love itf; - existing high-end customers would stop feeling neglected   andhC - it will rid Compaq of the perception that it is ONLY a PC companyt   All very positive.  H Let Compaq concentrate on business PC's and sell them by the hundreds or> thousands rather than individually ... and pick up support and maintenance contracts too.  @ I wish I had seen the report.  I went searching today in Yahoo's> financial news and the message board but I found no reference.  F As I see things, diluting the PC side of the business might dilute theC control that Houston has.  This is both at a board/management leveloF (cries of "Compaq is leaving Houston") kind of thing and the influenceC of the loss-making PC faction - being local to the headquarters anda3 having good close contact with the decision makers.^  E I believe that this is the glaringly obvious thing that Compaq should < do.  To lose about $700 million on PCs this year is no joke.  4 The big question is - Will Compaq bite the bullet ??     cheers     John McLean/   John Nebel wrote:  >  > John,r > I > There was an article up on Yahoo Friday in which the analyst upgraded Q I > stock to a buy.  If the merger with HP fails, he presumed Q would leaverH > the PC business and become a smaller, more profitable company.  I readH > that as good news.  It's what people on this list have been saying for > quite a while. > G > The article is no longer there, however, there is an audio clip which K > unfortunately omits the flat statement that Q would exit the PC game, butt; > nevertheless says a "much smaller and profitable Compaq".s >  > John Nebel > ( > On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, John McLean wrote: >  > >t > >  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:r > > >oK > > > Odds are increasing that the merger will NOT succeed, so HP's alleged>& > > > "admission" is pretty much moot. > >  > >c0 > > So where goeth Compaq after merger misfire ? > >i > > - considered opinions ??  > > - ill-considered opinions ?? > > - best rumours ??  > >e1 > > Has Capellas been cut off at the knee caps ??t > >e > >F > > John > >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:29:19 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedse. Message-ID: <3d4_7.16680$Sf2.153373@rwcrnsc52>  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C389F6B.1524EEAA@swissonline.delete.ch... 
 > Hi John, >w% > Yes, it would be a very smart move.  >c$ > - financial analysts would love it' > - industry commentators would love its< > - existing high-end customers would stop feeling neglected > andrE > - it will rid Compaq of the perception that it is ONLY a PC company- >- > All very positive. >aJ > Let Compaq concentrate on business PC's and sell them by the hundreds or@ > thousands rather than individually ... and pick up support and > maintenance contracts too. > B > I wish I had seen the report.  I went searching today in Yahoo's@ > financial news and the message board but I found no reference. >sH > As I see things, diluting the PC side of the business might dilute theE > control that Houston has.  This is both at a board/management leveloH > (cries of "Compaq is leaving Houston") kind of thing and the influenceE > of the loss-making PC faction - being local to the headquarters ando5 > having good close contact with the decision makers.e >nG > I believe that this is the glaringly obvious thing that Compaq shouldp> > do.  To lose about $700 million on PCs this year is no joke. >e6 > The big question is - Will Compaq bite the bullet ?? >a  L Sigh. Either they bite the bullet, or they shoot themselves in the foot with7 the bullet. Actually in both feet with the same bullet.i  H Amazingly, CPQ is still running Presario ads on teevee for the Christmas holidays. Doh.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:58:36 -0500h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsy, Message-ID: <3C38D699.53C17BF6@videotron.ca>   John Nebel wrote:tI > There was an article up on Yahoo Friday in which the analyst upgraded Q I > stock to a buy.  If the merger with HP fails, he presumed Q would leavea@ > the PC business and become a smaller, more profitable company.  * What does "leaving the PC business" mean ?  K IBM long ago left the PC business, but it is still selling PCs to consumerslM and is still making PCs destined to the consumer market. Heck, it seems to be ( spending a lot on advertsing these days.  H Secondly, I have only heard people HOPING that Compaq would leave the PCD business, I have not heard Capellas or Winkler make such statements.  N Thirdly, Compaq would still remain a core wintel business and would focus evenL more on wintel servers and wintel office desktops than before and would wantI to maximize their volumes so as to retain its status of a big wintel gear 6 purchasor to keep its status with intel and microsoft.  M When I read "Compaq to drop its PC business", I instantly hope for "Compaq to L retake Alpha and push it like hell as well as its own products such as Tru64J VMS, NSK and will also offer on a sideline wintel servers and desktops for/ offices". But I know that this is just a dream.l   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 18:30:52 -0700 (MST)" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0201061822590.19098-100000@athena.csdco.com>e   JF,m  F Originally I saw this on Yahoo financial where there is still an audio= clip.  The analyst is Mark Specker from Soundview Technology..  2 http://www.briefing.com/FreeServices/fs_inplay.htm  @ 08:43 ET Compaq (CPQ) 10.96: Hearing from sources that SoundViewD Technology upgraded CPQ to BUY from Hold; says that if HWP deal goesJ through, CPQ is worth $14.52, and that if it doesn't, CPQ will restructureF and shed its PC biz, and could earn $1.13 on a run-rate basis in 2003.   I read this as good news.x   John  # On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, JF Mezei wrote:r   > John Nebel wrote:sK > > There was an article up on Yahoo Friday in which the analyst upgraded QrK > > stock to a buy.  If the merger with HP fails, he presumed Q would leavesB > > the PC business and become a smaller, more profitable company. > , > What does "leaving the PC business" mean ? > M > IBM long ago left the PC business, but it is still selling PCs to consumerscO > and is still making PCs destined to the consumer market. Heck, it seems to be * > spending a lot on advertsing these days. > J > Secondly, I have only heard people HOPING that Compaq would leave the PCF > business, I have not heard Capellas or Winkler make such statements. > P > Thirdly, Compaq would still remain a core wintel business and would focus evenN > more on wintel servers and wintel office desktops than before and would wantK > to maximize their volumes so as to retain its status of a big wintel geari8 > purchasor to keep its status with intel and microsoft. > O > When I read "Compaq to drop its PC business", I instantly hope for "Compaq todN > retake Alpha and push it like hell as well as its own products such as Tru64L > VMS, NSK and will also offer on a sideline wintel servers and desktops for1 > offices". But I know that this is just a dream.  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:28:06 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedst' Message-ID: <3C38DE40.28E30821@fsi.net>l   John McLean wrote: > [snip]J > I would regard that as very unlikely.  I suspect that you will find thatI > the decisions makers simply do not believe that a substantial potentialeJ > market exists for VMS.  (Maybe it is off their own bat, maybe it is whatH > their advisors - researchers and marketing people - are telling them.) > G > I think they are probably looking for good *business reasons* to evenl( > try to develop the VMS side of things.  E Does the word "profit" mean anything to anyone, or am I the only one?p  I > I know, there's a huge inconsistency between this and their attitude to-H > the PC market where we see quarter after quarter of big losses and all9 > they appear to be doing is rearranging the deck-chairs.    Agreed.    -- h David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 23:08:00 -0000; From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@computershare.co.uk>r& Subject: Re: MSCP serving 101 questionA Message-ID: <1010358487.7523.0.nnrp-12.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>a  J > IIRC the allocation class value of a DSSI disk may differ from the value# > of ALLOCLASS set on a VMS system.h  K Absolutely, and if it is differnet the OPenVMS host will not MSCP serve the  disk.i  - "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in messaged, news:MDWZ7.4415$E82.12628@typhoon.bart.nl...A > Setting the ALLCLASS parameter on a DSSI disk requires that yourD > connect to the device (SET HOST/DUP). Next run the program (on the, > "HSC" of the disk) to set/show parameters.J > IIRC the allocation class value of a DSSI disk may differ from the value# > of ALLOCLASS set on a VMS system.l >t > Hans >tF > David McKenzie <david.mckenzie@computershare.co.uk> wrote in message> > news:1010161711.21118.0.nnrp-13.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk...+ > > Sorry I should have been more explicit.s > >0I > > I think of DSSI disks as a disk each with its own HSC. The allocation/ > classfL > > for each disk has to be set, I cant actually remember how to do this anyI > > more. And then, here is the killer, for the host to MSCP serve a diska itsuL > > allocation class has to be the same as the controller. Is this the case? > >: > >o< > > "Dave Greenwood" <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote in message/ > > news:4JAN02.16201830@feda01.fed.ornl.gov....B > > > "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@computershare.co.uk> wrote:I > > > > do the allocation classes match on the disks and the controllers?  > > >-D > > > Er - doesn't the allocation class of the controller define the > allocationK > > > class of the disk?  In any case, I did find that the allocation class  > for L > > > 1 controller was 3 and for the other controller and the 3400 was 0.  I > set H > > > all to 3 and rebooted but the 4000-90 still doesn't see the 3400's > disks.H > > > I even stopped and restarted the CONFIGURE process on the 4000-90. > > >oL > > > One change is that SHOW DEV $3$D/FULL on the 3400 now reports that theF > > > disks are "served to cluster via MSCP Server" whereas before the changes G > > > to the allocation class the comment was something like "served tof
 > > cluster".  > > > So that's an improvement.o > > >,% > > > > are there any device clashes?U > > > 	 > > > No.r > > >l
 > > > Dave > > >  > > > >s@ > > > > "Dave Greenwood" <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> wrote in message3 > > > > news:3JAN02.18515549@feda01.fed.ornl.gov...nK > > > > > There has got to be an obvious answer to this problem but I can'tf > seed > > it. 	 > > > > >HJ > > > > > I'm trying to help some folks who had a system disk crash but no > imageoB > > > > > backup.  The system that crashed is a MicroVAX 3400 with > (apparently)I > > > > > two DSSI controllers.  A second system (VAXstation 4000-90, VMSa > > 5.5-2H4)F > > > > > was configured as a boot server and the 3400 was booted as a > > satellite.K > > > > > The idea is to MSCP serve the 3400's disks and rebuild the systeme > disk< > > > > > from the 4000-90 using INIT and non-image backups.	 > > > > > L > > > > > The problem is that the 4000-90 is not seeing either of the 3400's	 > > disksnI > > > > > (one on each DSSI controller) - ie the disks don't show up witht SHOW > > DEVs
 > > > > D.K > > > > > The 3400 does see the 4000-90 disks in addition to its own.  I'veb > > checkednL > > > > > MSCP_LOAD (1 on both systems) and MSCP_SERVE_ALL (1 on the 3400, 2 > on > > the G > > > > > 4000-90).  I've done SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL on the 4000-90.p	 > > > > >r3 > > > > > What else should I be looing at or doing?h	 > > > > >t > > > > > Thanks,o > > > > > Dave > > > > > --------------C > > > > > Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVeK > > > > > Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak form
 > > myself > > > >i > > > >  > >l > >h >i >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 14:16:30 -0800.% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>h4 Subject: Re: NAT: publishing the remote IP of router) Message-ID: <3C38CCBE.7A4BF4B4@rdrop.com>d   Michael Austin wrote:  > K > > Various scripts on the cluster will want to know that address when theyoI > > generate HTLM pages stored elsewhere to point to my hosts  (or do thet7 > > negotiation of dynamic dns with a dyn dsn service)..  E Sorry, I missed the original...  Why would you do this?  Any URL tagsoH should either point to a relative link (no host name at all) on the sameB box or use a DNS name to refer to a specific host.  If you have toE specify a host, use DNS names and let the client resolve them- that'sg what it's *for*.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:50:58 -0500y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: NAT: publishing the remote IP of router, Message-ID: <3C38D4CF.71A17F85@videotron.ca>  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:G > I'd use SNMP if the router is capable of responding.  I don't need toeF > because I have static IP addresses but if I didn't I'd use something6 > akin to the following (this is for a Netopia router) > 
 > $ PIPE -F >   SNMP_REQUEST 192.168.10.1 public get 1.3.6.1.2.1.4.21.1.7.0.0.0.0     K Tried it, but my router doesn't respond to SNMP requests (or to a telnet too
 port 161).  O I looked at the documentation for SNMP and something I do not quite understand:i  4 where do those numeric dotted variable names such as 1.3.6.1.2.1.4.21.1.7.0.0.0.0 nJ come from ? How the capellas  am I supposed to know what the number is for "current ip address" ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:08:15 +0100l1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e! Subject: Re: Need Financial Help?i4 Message-ID: <3C38AEAF.6D25944@swissonline.delete.ch>   > Dave Peterson wrote: > * >                               Need Help? >  > Dear Friend, > H > We are in tough times. The economy will probably not recover till lateG > October this year and many have lost their jobs. That's the frivolityeG > of banking your future on Normal Income. I have been lucky to keep myeF > job but even luckier than that, I have chanced upon a way to build a5 > substantial Residual Income to safeguard my future.  >    Scam alert !!!  ? This talks about making money from home if you have an internetrF connection, what's more you can make that money even while you are notC actually working.  (He calls it "residual income" but it's actuallyt "passive income".)  G This is a typical scam which you pay a lot of money to find out ...that F all you do is advertise about how to make passive income from home viaE your internet connection.  In other words, to continue this same craps with another bunch of suckers.     John McLeang   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:11:24 -0500d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d( Subject: Re: OT: Phone charges in Europe, Message-ID: <3C38CB8B.DC615657@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:C > Doesn't work in the US though.  I wonder why they chose differentoJ > frequencies to the rest of the world ? This has caused multi-band phonesJ > - specifically to cater for the USA - and of course the cost is borne by > the customer.  :-(  H The US military didn't want to give up a small range of frequencies thatJ interfered with the "standard" mobile phone ones in the rest of the world.I (or: they used that as an excuse to foster the development of proprietarye5 technologies istead of using the "foreign" standard).m  M It will get much worse.  The IA-136 (TDMA) networks in the USA and the one in L Canada have realised that their network (which was cheapest to setup from anI existing analogue network) is a dead end and won't go to 3G. SO they havet decided last year to go GSM.  D Their bandwidth in the 1900mhz is limited and they have lots at  800K (analogue). They have converted some of their TDMA bandwidth at 1900 to GSM G and in Canada, AT&T (Rogers) has begun in november to offer GSM servicetM (mostly for GPRS since their TDMA can't do that). But eventually they will beo2 converting some of their 800 mhz bandwidth to GSM.  H The major vendors have agreed to develop/sell 800mhz GSM phones for thatK market. (which is bigger than the existing 1900mhz market was prior to AT&Td  and friends deciding to go GSM).  M So the world will have 900/1800 systems, and north america will have 800/1900 N systems. So to be "complete" a phone would have to have 4 bands. Although onceL all of the analogue 800 is converted to GSM, it will probably offer the mostI footprint and perhaps foreign roamers will only need to have 800 on theirt  phone to roam in the USA/Canada.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 04:13:12 GMTi1 From: Ed Wensell III <ewensell3@yahoo.commercial> ( Subject: Re: OT: Phone charges in Europe0 Message-ID: <3C392034.1CC1178C@yahoo.commercial>   Still OT, but...   JF Mezei wrote:  > O > It will get much worse.  The IA-136 (TDMA) networks in the USA and the one insN > Canada have realised that their network (which was cheapest to setup from anK > existing analogue network) is a dead end and won't go to 3G. SO they have  > decided last year to go GSM.  G Correction... I know of at least one TDMA-using carrier in the US whichaB has decided to convert their TDMA markets to CDMA to move to 3G...= http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/011219/cgw006_1.html (3.3 millionn> subscribers with a churn rate of 1.7%. Sorry, no VMS systems).   -- n Ed Wensell IIIE NetBSD/Alpha at home - Solaris/SPARC at work - OpenVMS in a past life'A E-mail address is valid if you know the appropriate bits to drop.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 16:29:01 -0800o. From: csabah@zipworld.com.au (CSABA HARANGOZO)% Subject: REPLY command usage change ?e= Message-ID: <df779b76.0201061628.7df01401@posting.google.com>    G'day,  L         The $HELP REPLY text says, that the /ENABLE or the /DISABLE switchesG         cannot be entered from a batch job. I did some testing in batchk/         ( Alphaservers, VMS 7.2-1 ), you know :6  G         $ DEFINE/USER  SYS$COMMAND  OPA0:       ( or another terminal )r?         $ REPLY/ENABLE                          ( or /DISABLE )            and it seems to work.eI         Am I missing something or the help text needs changing/updating ?yC         It did even work selectively. i.e.  /ENABLE=(PRINTER,NETW).tL         One combination didn't work, namely /ENABLE/LOG. I didn't test other         variations.-           Any comments ?  Hoff ?  K         On another, lighter note, if you look at the first 2 examples afteruM         you enter $HELP SHOW USER EXAMP, you will see some familiar names :-)a4         I wonder which machine they got them from...  A                                                 Cheers,     Csabat   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 05:38:11 GMTe) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>HY Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The  demise ot' Message-ID: <3C395090.584D7EB9@ev1.net>f  	 AG wrote:i > , >        [snip...]     [snip...]   [snip...] > = > Totally OT (I hope) but what about a multiple *positives* ?  > 
 > Like in: >  > "Yeah, sure" > = > and my favorite (though it does contain just one negative):  > - > "I couldn't fail to disagree with you less"n > 1 Could you repeat that over again one more time???r   Have you heard:e  * "One bright day in the middle of the night  Two dead boys got up to fight#  Back to back they faced each other,$  Took two knives and shot each other!  A deaf policeman heard the noise (  And came and killed the two dead boys."  7 "...and they played the game of catch as catch can tille4  the gunpowder ran out of the heals of their boots."   -- l? +-------------------------------------------------------------+n? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |i? +-------------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:02:38 +1300 From: "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise of,4 Message-ID: <ta8_7.9719$_02.1125601@news.xtra.co.nz>  4 "Alex Colvin" <alexc@world.std.com> wrote in message" news:GpDxx8.4787v@world.std.com...J > >> >I've never seen a Mac-fan ... who didnt want to learn about anything > >> >else.h > >> > >> -- : > >> "not not" not Algol -- DTSS Algol 60 Reference Manual >h > >Oh sh.., how embarrassing...aE > >And I've even been told by my main supplier that my command of thew Englishi > >language is above average... L > >Anyway, what I mean, was "I've never seen a Mac-fan who did want to learn > L > Your command of English probably *is* above average. English negatives areD > tricky. Best to avoid them, especiallyto avoid multiple negatives.  ; Totally OT (I hope) but what about a multiple *positives* ?u   Like in:   "Yeah, sure"  ; and my favorite (though it does contain just one negative):u  + "I couldn't fail to disagree with you less"-   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:21:12 GMTm) From: jchausler <jchausler@earthlink.net>:Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The       demise0- Message-ID: <3C38CAF1.5A7F3448@earthlink.net>l   Stephen Fuld wrote:f  8 > "jchausler" <jchausler@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:3C35F343.98D06822@earthlink.net...   > >Just about the time I arrivedJ > > on campus (fall 66) they got a 360/65 but I did not pay much attention
 > > to it. >hN > Are you sure it was a /65?  When I was there (68-72) they had one of the fewL > 360/67s running (well, saying running is being charitable) TSS.  The storyN > we were told is that CMU people were doing continual development to help IBMK > with TSS and that was part of the cause for the instability.  Later in my L > career, I met the woman at IBM who was given the task (as one of her firstN > jobs at IBM) to go to CMU and tell them that IBM was dropping TSS.  She said3 > she was rather intimidated, but got the job done.l  O You're correct, brain fart on my part.  I was involved in a performance test off TSS,H I believe in the spring of 68 as I was a part time employee by that time (operator).nN I was one of many seated an a TTY (In my case it was the user consultant's 33)M following a script of interaction with TSS.  It was pathetic.  I recall being 
 told laterO that the 67 spent 6% of its time "running" user requests and the remaining timehK "running" TSS.  The also used the 67 in "65" mode to run IIRC MFT with hasp 6 and I used that occasionally, certainly more than TSS.  B > > The 7040 did not last long and was replaced with a Univac 1108J > > in summer 67.  Since this machine had a good Algol compiler on it, theM > > rest of the G-20 users were more or less directed to convert to the 1108.o >fF > Yes, the 1108 (running Exec II) was the main student computer when IL > started.  Later, they gave it to the physics dept (?) to control some realG > time experiments and student jobs were switched to some kind of S/360  > running Watfor.-  M I visited the campus for the first time after leaving in (in 71) in 1976.  Ate thatH time the 1108 and the 67 were still there but I recall the 1108 although powered,K did not appear to be doing anything.  As a part time operator from early 68 O until summer 70, I ran all of the above machines except the 7040 but spent mosti of my time with the 1108.b  J > When I got there in 1968, the Bendix machines had dial up access (KSR 33K > Teletypes) from a room in the basement of one of the men's dorms.  It wasiN > primarily used for its interactive "desk calculator" program, which could be1 > used for things like physics homework problems.V  H Desk calc was a nice program.  The school had several "Data Ports" whichJ were "portable" terminals in two sort of suitcases.  In one was a strippedC KSR 33 and the other had the modem electronics in it including an HrC shaped unit which would fit over a standard desk phone and with thedB handset removed, hold down the hook switch.  The hand set was thenC placed in "muffs" in the top legs of the H.  From the TTY one could:I direct the unit to go off-hook and as well, it could automatically answereJ the phone and go online.  Each unit connected to the G-20 had an differentE ID coded into its "here-is" drum and the data ports were no different @ (It printed out something like "CIT Remote NN" where NN was someD number.  There were also some unprintable characters embedded withinM the code supposedly to keep foreign terminals off of the machine.)  ThereforeeL the G-20 could uniquely identify each terminal and since they were mostly atJ just one phone number, it could call it back.  When you would submit a jobH from a TTY no one else could submit another job from that TTY until yourD job was completed.  When it was completed it would call you back andK tell you the results of your run.  I eventually got one of these things foryE my apartment but that was long after the G-20's were gone.  I used itsF to dial into CS's PDP-10.  As under grads, we always wanted to be ableJ to take one of these into a test and use it with G-20 desk calc instead of a slide rule ;-)   Chris  AN GETTO$;DUMP;RUN,ALGOL,TAPEf $$   ------------------------------  * Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 22:08:27 +0000 (UTC)/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of c 2 Message-ID: <1010354905.17674@haldjas.folklore.ee>  ; In comp.arch Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:"5 > In article <1010166229.414391@haldjas.folklore.ee>,03 >  Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote:n  7 >> In comp.arch Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:o >>O >> > You can get faster, cheaper PCs that will be just as good at running LinuxdP >> > for less than any comparable Mac, and while the underlying OS on older MacsO >> > is pretty damn awful the GUI and applications are termendously compelling.  >> tI >> Unless you don't want to use PC. Also, MacOSX has horrible support for ) >> C++ so that might be another reason...t  K > That's an interesting assertion considering that MacOS X uses almost the NK > same C++ compiler as a heck of a lot of Linux distributions, gcc 2.95.2. DK > Apple's version has some Apple specific extensions, but they are working aJ > hard on updating their version to 3.0 and merging as many local changes % > as possible back into mainline gcc.f  J the problem isn't so much the compiler but the shlibs. try compiling/usingD somthing that uses some amount of templates, exceptions and stlport,, esp. compiling such things into libraries...  C > Or are you referring to the fact that you can't directly use the rK > Objective-C frameworks from a C++ source file?  That's no longer true as uJ > of the compiler which shipped with 10.1; it now supports Objective-C in " > C++ programs, aka Objective-C++.   No, thats not it     > -- p >   Tims   -- t 	Sanderi   +++ Out of cheese error +++r   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jan 2002 18:22:46 -05004# From: markp@panix.com (mark powers) Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of c + Message-ID: <a1am86$gsp$1@panix1.panix.com>b  1 in article <a11n5n$tak$1@bugstomper.ihug.com.au>,uZ Al   \(Alex Gibson\) <alxx//nospam\\@ihug.//.die.spammer.die.\\com//.nospam\\.au> sez ...  |sC |"Malcolm Purvis" <malcolmpurvis@optushome.com.au> wrote in messageo? |news:m1y9jfyb57.fsf@co3018576-a.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au... A |> >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> writes:o |>= |> Charles> So *not* all Mac-fans are fanatically Mac-only...e |>J |> Why not combine your interests and run Linux on a Mac?  Then you can be |lookedS2 |> upon strangely by both the Mac and Linux camps. |> |  |why be so common ?I |  |open or netbsdg! |http://www.openbsd.org/plat.html  |http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/- |- |For something a bit different |  |plan 9 ' |http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/a2 |http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/release3.html |yes it runs on powerpc   H PowerPC yes, Mac no. it is a wonderful OS, though, and well worth a try.     --mp   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:05:52 -0800c% From: Chris Cox <ccox@mindspring.com> Y Subject: Re: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise of cu4 Message-ID: <060120021805529201%ccox@mindspring.com>  ? In article <1010354905.17674@haldjas.folklore.ee>, Sander Vesikm# <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote:   = > In comp.arch Timothy A. Seufert <tas@mindspring.com> wrote:r7 > > In article <1010166229.414391@haldjas.folklore.ee>,e5 > >  Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote:  > 9 > >> In comp.arch Peter da Silva <peter@abbnm.com> wrote:f > >>K > >> > You can get faster, cheaper PCs that will be just as good at runningg > >> > LinuxM > >> > for less than any comparable Mac, and while the underlying OS on oldery > >> > MacszE > >> > is pretty damn awful the GUI and applications are termendouslym > >> > compelling. > >> DK > >> Unless you don't want to use PC. Also, MacOSX has horrible support for + > >> C++ so that might be another reason...s > M > > That's an interesting assertion considering that MacOS X uses almost the dM > > same C++ compiler as a heck of a lot of Linux distributions, gcc 2.95.2.  M > > Apple's version has some Apple specific extensions, but they are working  L > > hard on updating their version to 3.0 and merging as many local changes ' > > as possible back into mainline gcc.t > L > the problem isn't so much the compiler but the shlibs. try compiling/usingF > somthing that uses some amount of templates, exceptions and stlport,. > esp. compiling such things into libraries...  8 For that, nobody in their right mind would use gcc......  F There's a reason that the big apps for OS X use Metrowerks CodeWarrior- (and thus far, Carbon/CFM, not Cocoa/Mach-0).R   Chrisi   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:26:15 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) 7 Subject: Re: TSM Installation Problem on Alpha - Solvede1 Message-ID: <3c38ce7c.602541108@news.wcc.govt.nz>v   Hi All,e   Thanks for the responses.y  B Turns out it was a corrupt MESSAGE.EXE file. Now why and when this: file got corrupted is the next and more worrying question.   No recent disk errors of note. c    E On Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:47:15 GMT, rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)u wrote:  
 >Hi Chaps. >!@ >Various Alphas - all running VMS 7.2-1 and DECNet OSI 7.2 ECO 3 > D >Installed TSM on our Development Alpha - no problems. Installed 2.1 >then 2.1 ECO 6.G >We have two Production Alphas (DEC3000s) each has its own System Disk. 2 >Each has identical patches, layered products etc. >oF >I thought the TSM ECO 6 kit was a full kit so I tried just installing( >that and it failed. Error listed below.A >Ooops. Okay, tried installing vanilla 2.1 - failed with the sameh >error.r > E >Okay, over to the very similar Production box, installed vanilla 2.1 ( >with no problems followed by 2.1 ECO 6. >.D >So, any clues as to why I can't install 2.1 on the other Production >System.G >It didn't seem to have done much in the install process. It did createh' >the sys$common:[decserver] directory. f >nD >Any ideas, guesses as what I might need to undo? Not really keen on+ >doing an image restore of the System Disk.S >  >TIA >u >Rob.  >t >Error was:  >hB >        Terminal Server Manager requires a system directory namedC >        [DECSERVER] as a location for the TSM management directory 
 >database.; >%VMSINSTAL-I-SYSDIR, This product creates system directoryr
 >[DECSERVER].t6 >%SYSTEM-F-OPCDEC, opcode reserved to Digital fault at! >PC=0000000000031B08, PS=0000001Bh >r3 >  Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.e2 >    Signal arguments:   Number = 00000000000000032 >                        Name   = 000000000000043C2 >                                 0000000000031B082 >                                 000000000000001B >t >    Register dump: : >    R0  = 0000000000021B5C  R1  = 0000000000000001  R2  = >000000007B5334A8b: >    R3  = 0000000000021880  R4  = 00000000000118B0  R5  = >0000000000021888 : >    R6  = 00000000000119C4  R7  = 0000000000000000  R8  = >0000000000000000u: >    R9  = FFFFFFFFFFFFEBAC  R10 = 00021B6000000041  R11 = >000000007FFCE3E0a: >    R12 = 0000000000000000  R13 = 000000007AF3A330  R14 = >0000000000010230i: >    R15 = 000000007AF39990  R16 = 0000000000021880  R17 = >0000000000000000e: >    R18 = 000000007AE7D908  R19 = 0000000000000001  R20 = >000000007AE7D908a: >    R21 = 0000000000000800  R22 = 00000000000119C2  R23 = >0000000000010570 : >    R24 = 000000007B533300  R25 = 0000000000000001  R26 = >FFFFFFFF8088B990a: >    R27 = 0000000000010570  R28 = 0000000000031B00  R29 = >000000007AE7D900e: >    SP  = 000000007AE7D900  PC  = 0000000000031B08  PS  = >000000000000001B- >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:45:50 GMTa1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: VMS and VAX clusteringC' Message-ID: <3C38E268.D1542184@fsi.net>   
 Collin wrote:  > 7 > On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 01:11:12 GMT, "David J. Dachtera"t  > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote: >  > >Collin wrote: > >>F > >> Could anyone please explain how VAX clustering works, and how VMS- > >> handles clustering? Thanks in advance...  > >i9 > >You want *ALL* that in a single post? Are you serious?t > 6 > OK, perhaps I misjudged how detailed things are. ;-)) > Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.3  F Actually, you've inspired me. I'm going to start planning now to writeG "OpenVMS Clusters for Dummies" and see if I can sell it to the folks atn- IDG. (They don't have that one yet, do they?)a   -- - David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 01:32:40 GMTu7 From: "webmaster@cyberunlimited.org" <RES0JWU3@gte.net>7- Subject: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?'9 Message-ID: <WU6_7.625$SL.1308873@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C196D8.2790FC00c Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="x-user-defined" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   J Hello, my name is Jeffery Taff and I work in the Supervisory Control and =J Data Acquisition Department for a Water Utility.I currently have several =J VAX and Alpha Servers and Workstations. I want to upgrade my VAX Systems =G to Alpha. However, some people here believe that the future of VMS is =tJ limited and if we continue with VMS Systems, we will not be able to hire =F VMS Experts to fill our future SCADA positions. They believe that we =I should shift to an NT environment so that we can find people to support =,G our NT Systems in the future. What are your thoughts on this? What is =eF Compaq going to do about VMS in the future? Also, how long is Compaq =+ going to support the Alpha Architecture?=20-  
 Thank you.    + ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C196D8.2790FC00h Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="x-user-defined"r+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Dx-user-defined">8 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>f </HEAD>t <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I <P><STRONG>Hello, my name is Jeffery Taff and I work in the Supervisory =v
 Control=20F and Data Acquisition Department for a Water Utility.I currently have = several VAX=20I and Alpha Servers and Workstations. I want to upgrade my VAX Systems to =n	 Alpha.=20oI However, some people here believe that the future of VMS is limited and =t if we=20G continue with VMS Systems, we will not be able to hire VMS Experts to =n fill our=20tD future SCADA positions. They believe that we should shift to an NT = environment=20J so that we can find people to support our NT Systems in the future. What = are=20D your thoughts on this? What is Compaq going to do about VMS in the = future? Also,=20= how long is Compaq going to support the Alpha Architecture? ="
 </STRONG></P>z= <P><STRONG>Thank you.</STRONG></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>t  - ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C196D8.2790FC00--7   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jan 2002 02:26:29 GMTd) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)o1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha? ' Message-ID: <a1b10l$59m$1@joe.rice.edu>   6 webmaster@cyberunlimited.org (RES0JWU3@gte.net) wrote:J : Hello, my name is Jeffery Taff and I work in the Supervisory Control andJ : Data Acquisition Department for a Water Utility.I currently have severalJ : VAX and Alpha Servers and Workstations. I want to upgrade my VAX SystemsG : to Alpha. However, some people here believe that the future of VMS is*J : limited and if we continue with VMS Systems, we will not be able to hireF : VMS Experts to fill our future SCADA positions. They believe that weI : should shift to an NT environment so that we can find people to supporttG : our NT Systems in the future. What are your thoughts on this? What iseF : Compaq going to do about VMS in the future? Also, how long is Compaq* : going to support the Alpha Architecture? :e : Thank you. :uC VMS used to "own" the SCADA and process control market, but DEC and:, Compaq "ignored" that market niche to death.  C The absolute worst thing to do is to switch to Windows for mission-rB critical applications such as SCADA and process control. Just look1 at the daily security holes uncovered in Windows:c     http://www.ntbugtraq.com/6   http://www.cert.org/     From:   A   http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0002/tech-scigliano.shtml)A   Could disasters loom as more and more pipeline operators switchs   to Windows NT? T  J  "But Matt Saunders, a local expert on Windows NT vulnerability, was less M   sanguine when informed of such use. "One would hope that their command and .N   control policies dictate that control machines should be isolated from otherI   hosts," he notes, "But this is rarely the case for most organizations, nD   because it's simply easier to get work done and ignore the risks.   K  "It terrifies me that a control system of this nature is being run on NT. t   It's simply insane." t  B Perhaps the following article will get your colleagues' attention:  <   http://money.cnn.com/2001/11/12/technology/gates_software/8   Gates admits software crashes too much - Nov. 12, 2001     Microsoft focuses on basics !   November 12, 2001: 7:44 a.m. ETnE   Bill Gates admits software crashes too much and is too hard to use.i  G  "NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Bill Gates issued a confession to the computer G   world this weekend, saying Microsoft's software crashes too often andt=   is too hard to use, according to a published report Monday.7  D   The founder, chairman, and chief software architect of the world'sG   largest maker of personal computer software said he has been focusing A   on the issue of reliability for the last three months and he isIH   working on a company-wide memo to reinforce this concept, according to   USA Today.  F   "There are areas where Microsoft needs to improve," Gates was quotedE   as saying in an interview with the newspaper. "We're doing a little(   bit of a mea culpa on this."  A   In addition to focusing on reliability, Gates said the computer F   industry will turn to so-called computer tablets, devices that are aG   cross between a laptop and a personal digital assistant (PDA). At hishE   annual speech to the Comdex computer trade show in Las Vegas, GateseF   unveiled tablet versions from Compaq Computer, Toshiba, Fujitsu, and
   Acer..."  , As far as Compaq's view of VMS' future, see:  D    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/solutions/government/coe/index.htmlC    Commitment to DII COE initiative provides long-term support and k0    application portability for OpenVMS customers  H That page mentions a DOE requirement of official commitment from vendors up to 20 years.d  E Compaq claims they'll support the ALPHA architecture until there's nohG further demand. Compaq has announced a migration to the Intel Processore Family, aka IPF.  F It would help if the CEOs of HP & Compaq would issue a joint statementF on the future of VMS and NSK product lines, but they haven't done that and probably won't*.    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  3 * they probably need permission from Bill Gates :-(t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:42:19 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?e, Message-ID: <3C391903.F7EC4A7C@videotron.ca>  ' > "webmaster@cyberunlimited.org" wrote:fL > Alpha. However, some people here believe that the future of VMS is limited  . True. It is limited by Compaq to a few niches.  L > NT environment so that we can find people to support our NT Systems in the	 > future.T  K Training someone on VMS isn't very hard. It is getting someone with seriousaI systems management experience that is hard.  If you choose to hire any NT H weenie to manage your important NT systems, you are asking for problems.  F > What are your thoughts on this? What is Compaq going to do about VMS > in the future? e  K Not much , unless things change.  Exsisting VMS customers should be able tohM get supportf or their systems for many years to come. And you can also sign aaP contract with Compaq to garantee support of your VMS infrastructure for X years.  K You must however make it very clear to your management that if you move offRM VMS, you must also move to a different vendor and not encourage Compaq. It iscJ Compaq that is taking the steps to make you decide to move off VMS so theyD don't deserve your business when you move to Unix or god-forbid, NT.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:54:35 -0500o' From: Randy Hawley <rhawley@iquest.net>r1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?>* Message-ID: <3C392A0B.65381A89@iquest.net>   Hi Jeff,  4 My name is Randy & I work for a major pharmaceutical; company, and I also work with SCADA applications running onl VMS systems.  ; I moved to Alpha a few years ago on some systems and it wass9 a breeze, partly because the vendor had an Alpha version.n  ; To be truthful, the future of VMS is clouded.  Compaq stillC3 hasn't marked VMS as if it has a future.  Without a,: marketing effort, even with the strengths VMS, the product will not survive forever.i  : There is, without a doubt, a significant number of systems7 currenlty installed and running.  There is no reason tof9 beleive that all of these systems will be replaced withint: the next 5 years with non-VMS systems (though the majority9 might be).  I think we can safely conclude that >support<t9 will be there.  Although active development may fade, ando0 the support could become increasingly expensive.  6 Soon, I will be forced to move my systems to the "next< generation" of the software I support, which was migrated to; NT (for a while, on Alpha NT, but alas, no more).  I am noto< looking forward to this.  The VMS systems are mostly "set it8 and forget it" - no demand on me for much managing after< they were initially set up and tuned.  I am certain that the; NT boxes will not be so nice.  Although, in another year, Ir' might be putting them on W2K (shudder).-   Randy8  % "webmaster@cyberunlimited.org" wrote:<  2 > Hello, my name is Jeffery Taff and I work in the; > Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition Department for a\6 > Water Utility.I currently have several VAX and Alpha< > Servers and Workstations. I want to upgrade my VAX Systems6 > to Alpha. However, some people here believe that the6 > future of VMS is limited and if we continue with VMS: > Systems, we will not be able to hire VMS Experts to fill9 > our future SCADA positions. They believe that we shouldM: > shift to an NT environment so that we can find people to5 > support our NT Systems in the future. What are your ; > thoughts on this? What is Compaq going to do about VMS in:; > the future? Also, how long is Compaq going to support the  > Alpha Architecture?w >s > Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 07:00:41 +0100u1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha? 5 Message-ID: <3C393989.785D204A@swissonline.delete.ch>2   JF Mezei wrote:r > ) > > "webmaster@cyberunlimited.org" wrote:R .... > H > > What are your thoughts on this? What is Compaq going to do about VMS > > in the future? > M > Not much , unless things change.  Exsisting VMS customers should be able to,O > get supportf or their systems for many years to come. And you can also sign a R > contract with Compaq to garantee support of your VMS infrastructure for X years. > M > You must however make it very clear to your management that if you move offpO > VMS, you must also move to a different vendor and not encourage Compaq. It iscL > Compaq that is taking the steps to make you decide to move off VMS so theyF > don't deserve your business when you move to Unix or god-forbid, NT.  H VMS marketing is supposed to be busy targetting existing customers - I'mF not disagreeing that this is restrictive but AT LEAST this is supposed6 to be happening - so it looks like they've screwed up.  D I've forwarded your posting to Mark Gorham at Compaq and I hope thisE means you get an email from Compaq within 48 hours to explain what is H happening.  (Mark's probbaly too high for it but this means he will know what marketing is NOT doing.)      John McLeang   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 06:07:39 GMTh) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>gY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The  demise    of coo' Message-ID: <3C395777.A4F4FC8C@ev1.net>,   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: > ) > In article <3C3745DE.8FF49129@ev1.net>, / >    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:c > >.. > >     [snip...]     [snip...]      [snip...] > >eC > >I know... I just threw that in for the benefit of your nephew...  > >i: > ROTFL.  It's really not his fault; it's the fault of all> > the non-experts telling him he knows everything because they > don't know anything. > B IMHO you really have put your finger on a *large* problem there!!!A The school system is spending so much time artificially building t; up the self-esteem of the students that it is pitiful. SomegA schools have gotten rid of grades and sports competition, becausei@ the loser's self-esteem would be devestated.  They are also busy@ trying to emphasize how "equal" everyone is...and how people who? are "descriminated against" should be given a head start...thatsB they are bringing forth people who are *not* ready to do something useful in the world.   <rant>  B People need to read Emerson's "Self-Reliance" a few dozen times...A And remember the Hemmingway quote:  "Everything is your own fault6? if you are any damn good." Enough of people blaming others for e> their problems...if you want to build a better world, build a = better *you*. Well, I do *not* mean you, BAH, but you get ther idea...    </rant>b  = > I was informed just the other day that he could explain the > > anomolies that I observed when I compared having a cable box? > to not having a cable box.  This was kid who had to get a newiB > laptop because his old computer didn't have any more disk space. > A > hmmm...I wonder if that reason would have worked when we wantedk > more systems?  > B An additional disk drive would have been a fraction of the cost ofC a laptop...but I am sure that your nephew really wanted the laptop.nD And if the people with the money do *not* understand the technology, then they will get snowed.   -- D? +-------------------------------------------------------------+T? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |3? +-------------------------------------------------------------+i   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jan 2002 15:24:58 -05001 From: "Matthew X. Economou" <xenophon@irtnog.org> B Subject: Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha0 Message-ID: <w4og05j8bxh.fsf@eco-fs1.irtnog.org>  < >>>>> "John" == John E Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:  A     John> An Infoserver is not required for a VXT2000 X-Terminal.1  . OK.  I downloaded pretty much everything under> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/FREEWARE50/VXT/, which,F according to the "freeware_readme.txt" file, includes both OpenVMS andE InfoServer kits (VXT021.* and VXT021KT10_REMASTER.BCK, respectively).0  D I figured out how to run VMSINSTAL, but when it tried to restore the, save sets, it returned the following errors:  8   %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set A ...S   %BACKUP-F-NOTSAVESET, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR.VXT]VXT021.A;1 is not a BACKUP save set=:   %VMSINSTAL-E-NOSAVESET, Save set  A  cannot be restored.  F Any suggestions?  I downloaded the files through Netscape Navigator on
 the Alpha.  D     John> The VXT2000 can use an Infoserver as a load host, and alsoD     John> to hold a page file dedicated to the VXT2000.  Without the@     John> page file, the VXT2000 is limited to use it's internal     John> memory.V  > The VXT2000+ has 18 MB of RAM installed.  Will this be enough?   -- nF Matthew X. Economou <xenophon@irtnog.org> - Unsafe at any clock speed!J "Little grey men are coming our way (tastes just like chicken, they say)."	  - Clutche   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:45:20 +0100k9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>pB Subject: Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha' Message-ID: <3C38B760.E6826E03@aaa.com>l  
 Goto URL :; http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/000tools/n8 and check the "reset_backup_saveset_file_attributes.com"; command file. That might fix it. Probably the record formate: of the VMS Backup set have been set wrong by the download.9 Binary downloads tend to set fix 512 char records. BACKUP  don't like that...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.a   "Matthew X. Economou" wrote: > : >   %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set A ...U >   %BACKUP-F-NOTSAVESET, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR.VXT]VXT021.A;1 is not a BACKUP save sete< >   %VMSINSTAL-E-NOSAVESET, Save set  A  cannot be restored. >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:29:08 -05008, From: Michael Austin <maustin@spacelots.com>B Subject: Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha- Message-ID: <3C38DDC4.18115A53@spacelots.com>t   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  > Goto URL := > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/000tools/n: > and check the "reset_backup_saveset_file_attributes.com"= > command file. That might fix it. Probably the record formatf< > of the VMS Backup set have been set wrong by the download.; > Binary downloads tend to set fix 512 char records. BACKUPu > don't like that... >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.d >  > "Matthew X. Economou" wrote: > >n< > >   %VMSINSTAL-I-RESTORE, Restoring product save set A ...W > >   %BACKUP-F-NOTSAVESET, SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR.VXT]VXT021.A;1 is not a BACKUP save set > > >   %VMSINSTAL-E-NOSAVESET, Save set  A  cannot be restored. > >     ? Boy, that is a lot easier and faster than my previous "hack" to-8 accomplish the same thing from my kermit/9600bps days...    > $back garbagefadjkfals  xyz.bck/save  !yields an empty savesetH $copy/over <bad_bck_file> xyz.bck     !copies 512Byte records to default $rename xyz.bck <whatever>F $back/list <whatever>.bck/save        !now we have a readable saveset.  C Don't forget, when you download the .com file, Netscape and IE willD5 introduce LF characters in the text.  Edit using TPU,y3 Command-->replace<cr> <ctrl>V<ctrl>J<cr><cr> A<cr> n? then save.. now it will actually work.  (When I accessed it viae? netscape, I saved it directly to my home directory on the Alpha  running/using SAMBA) t   -- l Regards,  ? Michael Austin -- Available again.. Need a DBA or Apache Admin? 7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comb President/Sr. DBA Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)e 704-236-4377 (Mobile)b   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.011 ************************