0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 09 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 15      Contents: Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? APL for VMS ?? Re: APL for VMS ?? Re: APL for VMS ?? Re: Availman/AMDS Startup Error " BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM prompt& Re: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM prompt& Re: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM prompt& RE: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM promptP Re: BLISS pros and cons, was: Re: historical evidence of what went  wrong  at DEP Re: BLISS pros and cons, was: Re: historical evidence of what went  wrong  at DE> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the+ Re: Building large RMS file 250,000 records + Re: Building large RMS file 250,000 records $ Re: C++ Runtime problem with fstream$ Re: C++ Runtime problem with fstream Re: C-Kermit versus ALL-IN-13 Re: Celko, APL... (Was: Re: VMS and VAX clustering) 2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways2 Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways= Re: Compaq's Board of Directors & their value to shareholders = Re: Compaq's Board of Directors & their value to shareholders - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms" - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms" - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms" - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms" - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms" - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms" - Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms"  csws_php and Multinet? Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)  Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)  Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)  Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)  Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)  Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item) 0 DECdtm DTI$S_PART_NAME should be (no *IS*)  255!6 Re: DECdtm V2.0 for OpenVMS Field Test Announcement !!P Does anyone know a way of getting version 7.2  to support the Oxygen vx1 graphic) Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support? ) Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support? ) Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support? ) Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support? J Re: From the New York Times today Compaq to Post Profit and Beat EstimatesJ Re: From the New York Times today Compaq to Post Profit and Beat EstimatesJ Re: From the New York Times today Compaq to Post Profit and Beat Estimates. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 How to create the Flight object in DECnet Phase V 5 Re: How to create the Flight object in DECnet Phase V - how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 1 Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt 0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds Re: Odd LNM$TEMPORARY_MAILBOX $ OpenVMS Disk Services for Windows NT4 Re: OpenVMS on PWS-a (was: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3?)4 Re: OpenVMS on PWS-a (was: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3?)  Re: reading a VMS disk on Linux?; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products P Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:  The demiP Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demisP Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demis Re: VAX in a VT-103? Re: VMS and VAX clustering Re: VMS and VAX clustering Re: VMS and VAX clustering( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public( RE: VMS Marketing For the General Public( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public# Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha  Re: wtb: cd-rom caddy  Re: wtb: cd-rom caddy  Re: wtb: cd-rom caddy   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:19:55 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> % Subject: Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS 2 Message-ID: <mzI_7.416$5Y4.11407@news.cpqcorp.net>  % Michael A. Foley wrote in message ...  > A >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message - >news:jQE_7.399$5Y4.11035@news.cpqcorp.net...  >> >RE: Gnome, KDE, etc... on VMS > J >    Rather than a point solution of picking a window manager or windowingI >    development environment, I'd rather see an environment where you can J >    pull over just about any open sourced Linux software and recompile it9 >    for VMS with a minimum of "hacking" to make it work.  > K >    I know that's a tall order. But anything else will never allow  VMS to  >keep . >    up with the pace of open source releases. > L >    This is, of course, assuming that VMS on a workstation platform becomesG >    something that customers are willing to pay for. What applications  would  >take L >    advantage of VMS on a workstation? (I'm assuming an under $2k IA-64 box >at some# >    undefined point in the future)  >     J Well, I don't have a schedule, but there is a sizeable number of engineersI that have been assigned to doing just that - UNIX compatability (UNIX 98, 
 GNV, etc).  K Once that stuff gets done, plus what we already did for COE - you should be J able to pull it over and use the makefile, or script used on UNIX to buildK it.  Of course, this does not count any optional work you might want to add 2 to make things like file paths/names VMS-friendly.  
 I can't wait.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:37:59 +0000 < From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@eatspam.baesystems.com>% Subject: Re: A mouse friendly OpenVMS 6 Message-ID: <3C3B58A7.E78C2867@eatspam.baesystems.com>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  [snip]  8 > >The API - we are now talking about something 10 times8 > >the size and cost of the original suggestion.  A nice > >bit of requirements drift.  > K > Eh?  Refresh me, since I missed something here.  What is 10x the size and  > cost of what?   ( This is what the thread started out as -   "{snip]    My Proposal.  6 Incorporate the HELP facility into the line assembler 5 and use the mouse to generate the command line.  The  9 following assumes that the mouse has 3 buttons.  Tracker  # balls and joy sticks count as mice.   2 Click on the blank line at the bottom of the page 7 using the left hand button to activate mouse control.   4 Right clicking displays the list of commands.  Left 0 clicking on the required one copies it into the 3 command line.  Right clicking produces the list of  5 /options, left click to copy into the command line.   5 Repeat until the line has been produced, then double  8 left click to run.  Pressing the middle button produces  the help text and examples.   4 Parameters like filenames will have to be typed in, 5 although always having <Paste> (Cntr+v) as the first  ! right click option would be nice.   - Compatibility with other software will force  6 highlighted text to be copied using (Centric) and cut 7 using (Cntr+x).  The text editors will have to support  6 the same conventions.  Also (Cntr+f x) should exit the editors.    5 In summary, adding mouse control will give OpenVMS a  3 modern look without destroying any of its powerful  
 features."   --  7 _______________________________________________________  Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:48:28 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>! Subject: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? & Message-ID: <3C3B4D0C.B5CBDD0C@gmx.ch>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  > K > I have no idea *at all* if the DQ driver on the system *will* support it. > > You can always create a SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT file and try it.   Or boot 7.3?   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:22:36 -05005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ! Subject: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? 2 Message-ID: <RBI_7.417$5Y4.11349@news.cpqcorp.net>  = Didier Morandi wrote in message <3C3B4D0C.B5CBDD0C@gmx.ch>...  >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >> >>L >> I have no idea *at all* if the DQ driver on the system *will* support it.? >> You can always create a SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT file and try it.  > 
 >Or boot 7.3?  >     L There are 2 possibilities - the version doesn't support it (but this threadsG title implies it is for V7.3), or that no version supports it.  The IDE L controllers were so problematic (i.e. junk) that we only support a couple ofF the systems IDE implementations.  So some old system, might have a IDE! controller that we don't support.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:43:56 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>! Subject: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3? & Message-ID: <3C3B5A0C.E92D9A02@gmx.ch>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > ? > Didier Morandi wrote in message <3C3B4D0C.B5CBDD0C@gmx.ch>...  > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  > >> > >>N > >> I have no idea *at all* if the DQ driver on the system *will* support it.A > >> You can always create a SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT file and try it.  > >  > >Or boot 7.3?  > >  > N > There are 2 possibilities - the version doesn't support it (but this threadsI > title implies it is for V7.3), or that no version supports it.  The IDE N > controllers were so problematic (i.e. junk) that we only support a couple ofH > the systems IDE implementations.  So some old system, might have a IDE# > controller that we don't support.   - Thoe problem is that the Hobbyist CD has 7.2. 
 I'll try 7.3.     See next post on my BA 35X issue   Tx Fred.   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:14:34 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: APL for VMS ?? ' Message-ID: <3C3B532A.6A4BC323@aaa.com>   8 Does anyone know of an APL tool that runs on VMS Alpha ? (A Programing Language)    Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:07:48 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: APL for VMS ?? > Message-ID: <EcJ_7.155306$pa1.46486131@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>   You can try:   John Walker  APL2000 Technical Support  http://www.apl2000.com +1.301.564.5027   I They used to be known as STSC, later purchased by Manugistics. I last had B contact with them in August 2000. They had a particularly good APL implementation.   @ Digital used to offer an APL interpreter, which was pretty good.  K Ken Iverson, formerly of I.P. Sharp Associates in  Toronto, went off on his G own after Reuters purchased Sharp, and he had an APL interpreter he was 	 offering.   7 You can also try   http://www.rexswain.com/aplinfo.html       3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3C3B532A.6A4BC323@aaa.com... : > Does anyone know of an APL tool that runs on VMS Alpha ? > (A Programing Language)  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:15:15 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>  Subject: Re: APL for VMS ?? > Message-ID: <DjJ_7.155334$pa1.46491772@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  D You may also want to read   http://www.vector.org.uk/v171/bob171.htm    3 "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message ! news:3C3B532A.6A4BC323@aaa.com... : > Does anyone know of an APL tool that runs on VMS Alpha ? > (A Programing Language)  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:57:17 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) ( Subject: Re: Availman/AMDS Startup Error1 Message-ID: <3c3b78fe.777263996@news.wcc.govt.nz>   7 I think this may require a reboot to load the RMDriver.   F On VAX it's possible to reload the Driver, but I don't believe you can do that on Alpha.       B On 8 Jan 2002 10:04:59 -0800, dclyon@csupomona.edu (David C. Lyon) wrote:   >OpenVMS/Alpha 7.2 >Availman 2.01 > < >I'm getting startup errors when starting the data collector+ >(@sys$startup:amds$startup start) as in...  > A >%AMDS-I-RMSTART, starting Data Provider processing for this node F >%AMDS-F-OLDRM, an incompatible version of Data Provider is loaded and >running > @ >The install appeared to go fine. Here is what I have installed. > : >DEC AXPVMS DECNET_OSI V7.2          Full LP     Installed: >DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5           Full LP     Installed: >DEC AXPVMS JAVA V1.1-81             Full LP     Installed: >DEC AXPVMS NASAXP V5.2              Full LP     Installed: >DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2             Platform    Installed: >DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-11            Full LP     Installed: >DEC AXPVMS TNT V2.1                 Full LP     Installed: >DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2                 Oper System Installed: >DEC VMS AMDS V7.2-1                 Full LP     Installed: >DEC VMS AVAIL_MAN V2.0-1            Full LP     Installed > 2 >Any idea how to correct the problem? Thanks much. > ) >-- Dave Lyon, Cal Poly Pomona University  >-- dclyon@csupomona.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:02:18 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>+ Subject: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM prompt & Message-ID: <3C3B5E5B.789B2EE6@gmx.ch>  P Still trying to VMS boot one of my "new" PWS 600, I have tried to plug one of myP BA35x MD 2x with an SCSI (thin 50 pins) cable and a RZ something with VMS on it.  5 The light of the RZ goes on, the disk spins, but the   >>> SH DEV D says:   waiting for PKA0 to pool waiting for PKA0 to pool waiting for PKA0 to pool  5 then the prompt comes back and my DKA100 is not here.   G The SCSI interface is a "TUV" BA356 series with two thin 50 pins female > connectors, one on the front, one on a side and a microswitch:7                          !              !             ! 7       here <-------------+              !             ! 7   +-------------+                       !             ! 7  / .:::::::::: /!                       !             ! 7 +-------------+:!                       !             ! 7 !             !:! here <----------------+             ! 7 !             !:!                                     ! 7 !             !:!                                     ! 7 !             !:+-----+                               ! 7 !             !/  S1 /! here <------------------------+  !             +-----+ !e !                   ! !S< !                   ! !  The switch has 7 positions, all OFF9 !                   ! !  ( its name is CTS 206-7 T712 :-)P !                   ! !n !                   ! !5 !                   ! !r !                   ! !  !                   ! !A !                   ! !  !                   ! +o !                   !/ +-------------------+w  O I connected only one plug, the front one. The other one has a cable too. ShouldsP I "terminate" the chain? Change a switch to tell it that I do not use LINUX? Use another BA type?   Thanks,r  2 D. (discovering the joyces of being a Hobbyist :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:11:54 +0100t9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>f/ Subject: Re: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM promptd' Message-ID: <3C3B609A.31003600@aaa.com>e   BA356 is a Wide box. BA350 is a narrow box.9 Is your SCSI controller narrow (8-bit) or wide (16-bit) ?-  6 Does the external box share SCSI bus with some inernal9 devices ? Then there may be SCSI terminating resistors ono; the controler card (that used to be at one of the SCSI endsa@ before you connected the external box.) If so, try to take these@ away. You can't have termintors in the "middle" of the SCSI bus.  C The BA-box should have terminators connected at the back, under thes fans.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.e     Didier Morandi wrote:p > R > Still trying to VMS boot one of my "new" PWS 600, I have tried to plug one of myR > BA35x MD 2x with an SCSI (thin 50 pins) cable and a RZ something with VMS on it. > 6 > The light of the RZ goes on, the disk spins, but the > >>> SH DEV D says: >  > waiting for PKA0 to pool > waiting for PKA0 to pool > waiting for PKA0 to pool > 7 > then the prompt comes back and my DKA100 is not here.d > I > The SCSI interface is a "TUV" BA356 series with two thin 50 pins female @ > connectors, one on the front, one on a side and a microswitch: > Q > I connected only one plug, the front one. The other one has a cable too. ShouldoR > I "terminate" the chain? Change a switch to tell it that I do not use LINUX? Use > another BA type? > 	 > Thanks,o > 4 > D. (discovering the joyces of being a Hobbyist :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:39:09 +0100o, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>/ Subject: Re: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM promptt& Message-ID: <3C3B66FE.87B74928@gmx.ch>  < How much time do you pass reading this forum, Jan-Erik? :-))   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  > BA356 is a Wide box. > BA350 is a narrow box.  > I have two BA356 KC with two fans and two power supplies each.  ; > Is your SCSI controller narrow (8-bit) or wide (16-bit) ?l  " That's a good one. How can I know?  9 > Does the external box share SCSI bus with some internalr > devices ?   O No. the two boxes had only a QUANTUM XP34550J disk each, "unbootable" (probably P some LINUX stuff... and the internal stuff is a RZ1CC-BA DKA0.0.0.1009.0 and the IDE CD-ROM drive (for sale :-)  1 > Then there may be SCSI terminating resistors one= > the controler card (that used to be at one of the SCSI endswB > before you connected the external box.) If so, try to take theseB > away. You can't have termintors in the "middle" of the SCSI bus. > E > The BA-box should have terminators connected at the back, under the  > fans.g  ) There are no connectors "under the fans".t    N Well, double checking and swapping the two BA between my two PWS600a and au, IJ finally found that they are seen by the PWS 600a but not by the PWS 600au.  K Looks like I have to do some HW inventory, read the (updated) FAQ, find theeP on-line User's Guide for the PWS 600, then do some combinatory arithmetics, then& sleep a few hours then come back here.  L Thanks to everyone. I enjoy myself as much as during my first days with "my" 11/750 in 1981 :-)   D.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:25:11 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>/ Subject: RE: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM promptp- Message-ID: <0033000047177618000002L082*@MHS>p  # =0AIt's called a 16 bit I/O module. * We used to call 'em "personality modules".  , If it's got a personality module then you've probably got a BA356.p  . I've never seen a 350 that had a slot for one-- If you had a 350 you could just plug the SCSIe0 cable into the backplane at the top of the unit.. (Tight squeeze if you don't have small hands.)  - It's been so long that I had to pull the doc.m  , When one shelf is used, all switch positions+ are set to OFF, regardless of the number ofl installed devices.  ) Disk addresses are set from 0 to 6, (withe" zero being closest to the module.)   Got any internal drives?  / Make sure you don't have any address conflicts.e/ (I've seen experienced hands overlook this one)A  ' The thing that's counterintuitive about(, this bit of hardware is that for a one-shelf) configuration, you're supposed to use thea" SIDE connector, not the front one.  . The front connector is for connecting a second. shelf (whose personality module's switches get- set with the first three in the ON position.)n  , One more thing.  The book says that plugging3 a SCSI cable into the front connector automatically 4 disables the internal termination in the personality module.e  3 I trust that that you already know that a BA35x busm6 can also be split into two busses of three, but that's another story.   Hope this helps,   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe' Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 4:06 PMeB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET+ Subject: BA35X MD 2x not seen at SRM prompt     H Still trying to VMS boot one of my "new" PWS 600, I have tried to plug =	 one of mynH BA35x MD 2x with an SCSI (thin 50 pins) cable and a RZ something with V=	 MS on it. 4 The light of the RZ goes on, the disk spins, but the >>> SH DEV D says:   waiting for PKA0 to pool waiting for PKA0 to pool waiting for PKA0 to pool  5 then the prompt comes back and my DKA100 is not here.1  H The SCSI interface is a "TUV" BA356 series with two thin 50 pins female=  > connectors, one on the front, one on a side and a microswitch:7                          !              !             ! 7       here <-------------+              !             !o7   +-------------+                       !             !t7  / .:::::::::: /!                       !             ! 7 +-------------+:!                       !             !o7 !             !:! here <----------------+             !i7 !             !:!                                     !n7 !             !:!                                     !t7 !             !:+-----+                               !o7 !             !/  S1 /! here <------------------------+  !             +-----+ !  !                   ! !r< !                   ! !  The switch has 7 positions, all OFF9 !                   ! !  ( its name is CTS 206-7 T712 :-)m !                   ! !r !                   ! !l !                   ! !e !                   ! !  !                   ! !k !                   ! !  !                   ! +u !                   !/ +-------------------+b  H I connected only one plug, the front one. The other one has a cable too=  ShouldtH I "terminate" the chain? Change a switch to tell it that I do not use L=	 INUX? Usew another BA type?   Thanks,h  3 D. (discovering the joyces of being a Hobbyist :-)=    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:10:51 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>nY Subject: Re: BLISS pros and cons, was: Re: historical evidence of what went  wrong  at DE N Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.50.0201081209470.1340-100000@Shimo-Tomobiki.Panda.COM>  % On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Alan Greig wrote:uE > I seem to recall having to jump through hoops to avoid paying large.E > sums of money for what my failing memory tells me was called Utah-CaH > for TOPS-20. We had to prove we were an educational institute and signE > lots of paperwork.This may have been for the Unix runtime librariessA > and shell tools rather than the compiler though. Could be wrong  > though...s  G You're probably thinking about the TOPS-20 port of PCC, which was underr the UNIX license.t  H > Btw got your card in the mail today regarding phone stuff and will get > that sorted.   Great.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcnF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:26:09 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>fY Subject: Re: BLISS pros and cons, was: Re: historical evidence of what went  wrong  at DEsN Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.50.0201081214250.1340-100000@Shimo-Tomobiki.Panda.COM>  ! On 8 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote: 5 > >>The C compilers for the PDP-10 were all freeware.nF >    The only one I saw was a commercial product.  I don't doubt there! >    were many freeware versions.a  9 There was never any commercial C compiler for the PDP-10.i  I There was port of PCC to the PDP-10, and PCC was under the Bell Labs UNIXh< license, but that is not the same as a "commercial product."  = All serious C development work on the PDP-10 was done in KCC.   D >    When I took my C class and they kept telling me about it's byteA >    oriented workings I kept thinking how I would to the same ono >    a PDP-10.  F Either your instructor was ignorant, or you misunderstood what he told you.  H There is no such thing as a "byte" in C.  The word isn't even indexed inJ K&R, and K&R explicitly caution against making assumptions about how chars relate to ints or pointers.-  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrc F Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:03:11 -0500d' From: John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net>-G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for thee* Message-ID: <3C3B7AAF.937B1131@Empire.Net>   Bob Koehler wrote (excerpted):  ; Uncle.  OK, I short changed that one a bit.  I know MOVCx, r8 POLYx, and others on VAX are interruptable, but we were 7 really talking about a simple ADD.  Do you know of any l0 processor that has an interruptable integer ADD?   John Sauter responded:  4 The PDP-6 would interrupt an integer add instruction1 if it used indirect addressing.  Because indirects0 addressing could be chained, and the instruction1 started over on return from the interrupt, a veryi6 long chain of indirections would practically guarantee7 that the instruction would be interrupted by the clock,m  at least, and thus never finish.%     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)t   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2002 03:23:52 GMT0( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the31 Message-ID: <a1gd48$1al$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>   3 In article <yUabDk1pELgR@eisner.encompasserve.org>,C. Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:I >   Uncle.  OK, I short changed that one a bit.  I know MOVCx, POLYx, andpG >   others on VAX are interruptable, but we were really talking about atG >   simple ADD.  Do you know of any processor that has an interruptablee >   integer ADD?  	 How abouth   	ADDL2	(R1)+,(R2)+  ; where R1 and R2 both point to different non-resident pages?    -- t@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)d   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Jan 2002 22:00:45 -08003 From: Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com>FG Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the:0 Message-ID: <qhn0zo6p2q.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>  - Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> writes: > > Did the PDP 6,10 handle interrupts and task swapping cleanly  > not like the mess on say a PC?   Yes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:53:56 -0700-+ From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>mG Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for theD, Message-ID: <3C3B6A74.830D8B85@jetnet.ab.ca>   Eric Smith wrote:: > + > John Sauter <J_Sauter@Empire.Net> writes:p8 > > The PDP-6 would interrupt an integer add instruction5 > > if it used indirect addressing.  Because indirect 4 > > addressing could be chained, and the instruction5 > > started over on return from the interrupt, a verye: > > long chain of indirections would practically guarantee; > > that the instruction would be interrupted by the clock,i$ > > at least, and thus never finish.) > >     John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)e > D > In cases of interrupts happening during indirect effective addressI > calculation, I think it would be more precise to say that the interrupt3 > aborts the instruction.   D That makes sense to abort multiple indirection  rather than continue? in the special case handling a interrupt changes some importanta* volatile memory locations used indirectly.   G > However, there were various other PDP-6 and PDP-10 instructions which7G > could in fact be interrupted, such that the return from the interrupt D > handler would resume the execution of the interrupted instruction.. > That's what the First Part Done flag is for.  < Did the PDP 6,10 handle interrupts and task swapping cleanly not like the mess on say a PC? -- a% Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *-+ www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:49:33 -0800+ From: "xenman" <xenman@sprynet.nospaam.com>34 Subject: Re: Building large RMS file 250,000 records3 Message-ID: <a1fido$es9$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>i  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C3A9BA7.A1365FE6@videotron.ca...F > I am about to start building an RMS file with about 250,000 records, adding > records one by one.  > F > Those will be waypoints from a country. (name, type, state/province,	 latitude,t= > longitude and unique sequential key and a few more fields).v >rG > The goal is to be able to extract all waypoints in an area (rectanglet boundedr > by 4 lat-long points). > D > Should I be looking at splitting this into separate files for eachH > state/province and when I extract data, the application would be smart enough= > to search multiple files should the rectangle span multiple  provinces/states ? >IE > Or should I just build one big file ? If so, what is the concept ofD breakingL > it into multiple areas ? Will edit/fdl do this automatically for me, or isD > there some logic I can give it because I know how the data will be organised ?a? > (for instance, could each state/province have its own area ?)   ; Like others have suggested, use just one file.  If you haveC9 a one time load, then build it with a Sequential file and < then Convert it into an Indexed file.  If you can't do this,8 then try to load the records in the order of the primary index.  ; When defining the Indexed file, use multiple areas, placing19 each index into a separate area.  Choose your bucket sizej: carefully for each area.  If your file will be stable once: it's loaded, fill the index buckets up 100%, if not, leave> space for additional index entries. Index and data compression, usually benefits both space and performance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:00:19 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: Building large RMS file 250,000 records, Message-ID: <3C3B79FC.776343AD@videotron.ca>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: J > I'd be very tempted to divide the map up into grid sections and go for aJ > record organization where each record would contain waypoint information  > for a particular grid section.  N The concept of grids seems very promising. However, I would go against puttingE multiple waypoints into a single long record (or list of records) The K distribution of waypoints is way too uneven (very dense in cities, and very  parse in other remote areas).   N However, calculating a grid number based on lat/long and having that as one ofN the keys would allow me to retrieve all records in a grid fairly effiently andJ only select those that are inside of the rectangle. (with code to also get adjacent grids).  J > As compared to the straightforward one-record-per-waypoint organization,M > this approach has the advantage that rectangle queries are quite efficient.-  M But makes other methods nearly impossible with simple software. With a single C record/waypoint, I can map the file to ALL-IN-1 and have an instant 1 application to query/update individual waypoints.   I > Grid section size would obviously be a key tuning parameter.  You could I > consider the possibility of a non-uniform section size designed to keeph3 > the number of waypoints per section more uniform.t  J no. the grid "number" must be logical, mathematically derived based on theL lat/lon of a given point. If you give me lat/lon combination, I must be ableK to find in what grid it is located in. (and if you give me 4 such points, InS need to know what grids each of them is in and then extract data from those grids).o  E > If you end up deciding to go with a one-record-per-waypoint layout,eH > bucket size is a key tuning parameter.  Since your retrieval techniqueD > amounts to a sequential scan, very large bucket sizes are probably > a performance win.  M correct.  And I must also take into consideration the adding of records (will N be added in ascending order of primary key).  Collecting waypoints for a wholeL country will take a long while (I have already put in checkpointing every 10N minutes in the program). I haven't yet calculated the time it will take, but I0 think it may take about a month or two to run.    L The experience from this one will allow me to perhaps better tune it for the next country after that.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:16:38 -0500, From: "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org>- Subject: Re: C++ Runtime problem with fstreamn2 Message-ID: <HuP_7.434$5Y4.12931@news.cpqcorp.net>  F This is not specific to VMS. The Compaq C++ compiler produces the same behavior on Tru64.  E I belive the Compaq C++ compiler is standard conforming while G++ andyG whatever compiler you are using on Solaris and AIX are not. Table 92 inrB section 27.8.1.3 of the C++ standard says that when IN and OUT areL specified, this is equivalent to stdio's "r+". This will not create the file; either. While "in|out|trunc" is equivalent to stdio's "w+".a  L If you can cite a section in the C++ standard that supports this behavior asL being incorrect, you should send a bug report to compaq_cxx.bugs@compaq.com.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:21:18 -0500, From: "Kenneth Block" <krblock@computer.org>- Subject: Re: C++ Runtime problem with fstream 2 Message-ID: <3zP_7.435$5Y4.12316@news.cpqcorp.net>  E I just tried this on Solaris with Sun's 5.0 compiler and got the same  behavior as with Compaq.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:45:31 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>T% Subject: Re: C-Kermit versus ALL-IN-1o, Message-ID: <3C3B7685.1026D46F@videotron.ca>   Frank da Cruz wrote:N > I don't even know what I mean.  I've never even seen ALL-IN-1.  Any way thatN > you can test Kermit under or in or near or next to ALL-IN-1 would be a help.    I Ok, I will look at your previous message, extract the URL and attempt the " painful compile (microvax 3100 !).  M However, I will compile it "no net" because I have all-in-1 running on a nodeaN that still has CMU-IP. (and that is a microvax II, so by the time kermit would8 compile on this, you'd be 3 versions of kermit later :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:35:37 -0500b- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o< Subject: Re: Celko, APL... (Was: Re: VMS and VAX clustering), Message-ID: <3C3B823F.C2CBB6AB@videotron.ca>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:n= > APL, oh that was nice. Used it on a 360/MVS box to run some ; > reporting tool. Had to buy a special keyboard to our 32707> > emulating terminal. What was that tool called? ADRS maybe...  L I leaved APL on a PDP machine at high school. At first, it was dialup at 300E baud on a decwriter, and then the school got its own PDP11 with clone7  terminals that had apl keyboard.  L Interestingly, the Qubec government had written an excellent APL manual (inI french) which was better than the english "standard" (APL, an interactiverL approach, Wiley publishers). I suspect that perhaps they were heavy users ofE APL and decided to write their own book in french to help train theireE employees, and at the same time sell it to schools to train students.l  * Is APL still used by insurance companies ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:30:06 -0000e- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)e; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both wayse7 Message-ID: <9190BE300warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>I  5 terryshannon@mediaone.net (Terry C. Shannon) wrote inn$ <AIYZ7.14290$Sf2.129276@rwcrnsc52>:    >o7 >> In article <3C376882.A3FCCB9F@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>, $ >> toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl says... >> > Wow wrote:. >> > >> > > Back in middle 90s...A >> > > Intel was beating the drums saying "RISCs will be crushed, + >> > > resistance is futile, blah, blah..." + >> > > How the tables turned.... Oh well...  >> >@ >> > Not at all.  Now we know *how* the "RISCs will be crushed". >> >= >> > The difficult part is to predict which one will be next.  >>) >> Ok, which one is next, oh seer of all?i >nG >To be a Successful Seer, one must wear an Armani Suit, have  VP title, H >spend more time selling overpriced advice to clients than to conductingH >strategic analysis and technical assessment, and be good at dreaming up >probability factors.@ >.D >It also helps to have a Brand Name, even if you established same by" >being a Dot Com Bomb cheerleader. >eG >That said, the future of computer architectures remains both uncertain( >and extremely interesting!s  G And don't forget the requisite black-belt in PowerPoint hallucinations!b   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:41:07 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>; Subject: Re: Compaq still tries to spin Alphacide both ways < Message-ID: <7AK_7.8076$DG5.75800@rwcrnsc53.ops.asp.att.net>  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:9190BE300warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100... 7 > terryshannon@mediaone.net (Terry C. Shannon) wrote in % > <AIYZ7.14290$Sf2.129276@rwcrnsc52>:- >  > > 9 > >> In article <3C376882.A3FCCB9F@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>, & > >> toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl says... > >> > Wow wrote:  > >> > > >> > > Back in middle 90s...C > >> > > Intel was beating the drums saying "RISCs will be crushed,-- > >> > > resistance is futile, blah, blah..." - > >> > > How the tables turned.... Oh well...c > >> >B > >> > Not at all.  Now we know *how* the "RISCs will be crushed". > >> >? > >> > The difficult part is to predict which one will be next.  > >>+ > >> Ok, which one is next, oh seer of all?  > > I > >To be a Successful Seer, one must wear an Armani Suit, have  VP title, J > >spend more time selling overpriced advice to clients than to conductingJ > >strategic analysis and technical assessment, and be good at dreaming up > >probability factors.I > >oF > >It also helps to have a Brand Name, even if you established same by$ > >being a Dot Com Bomb cheerleader. > >-I > >That said, the future of computer architectures remains both uncertaink > >and extremely interesting!U > I > And don't forget the requisite black-belt in PowerPoint hallucinations!   I Boy, I bombed that course! I find it difficult to generate a 70-slide PPTmK file that goes more than 6 megs. Guess I need to add a bunch of pictures oflI people staring at computers or Pondering Important Stuff to my slideware.h  K Remember the old joke about a certain popular database? "What platform doese XXXXXX run best on?"   "A 35mm projector!"   5 Obviously a joke from the BP (Before PowerPoint) era!    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:45:32 GMTr  From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com>F Subject: Re: Compaq's Board of Directors & their value to shareholders8 Message-ID: <43qm3usehq4d00uaia33o150rgdngq5gre@4ax.com>  C On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:40:09 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t wrote:     >  >From The Sacramento Bee7 >http://www.sacbee.com/news/news/local11_19990802.html tD >MONTE RIO -- The Bohemian Club's Annual Summer Encampment came to aG >close here Sunday, ending a two-week retreat for the rich and powerfulpG >that President Herbert Hoover once called "the greatest men's party oneF >Earth." The club's famed annual gathering has been held for more thanB >100 years at the 2,700-acre Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio, about 70F >miles north of San Francisco in Sonoma County. This year's event drewG >in notables such as former President George Bush, Texas Gov. George W.rG >Bush, Henry Kissinger, retired Gen. Colin Powell, former House SpeakeroG >Newt Gingrich and Dow Chemical Chairman Frank Popoff, as well as actort >Danny Glover. m >sD >The men gather to celebrate what they call "the spirit of Bohemia,"G >said Peter Phillips, a Sonoma State University sociology professor who 7 >wrote his doctoral dissertation on the Bohemian Club. g  3 Wow!  Do they break out into the Bohemian Rhapsody?y  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqt- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:42:16 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>F Subject: Re: Compaq's Board of Directors & their value to shareholders: Message-ID: <cBK_7.2417$fG.8545@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  - "jlsue" <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote in messagea2 news:43qm3usehq4d00uaia33o150rgdngq5gre@4ax.com...E > On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:40:09 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>( > wrote: >a >n > >  > >From The Sacramento Bee8 > >http://www.sacbee.com/news/news/local11_19990802.htmlF > >MONTE RIO -- The Bohemian Club's Annual Summer Encampment came to aI > >close here Sunday, ending a two-week retreat for the rich and powerfullI > >that President Herbert Hoover once called "the greatest men's party onDH > >Earth." The club's famed annual gathering has been held for more thanD > >100 years at the 2,700-acre Bohemian Grove in Monte Rio, about 70H > >miles north of San Francisco in Sonoma County. This year's event drewI > >in notables such as former President George Bush, Texas Gov. George W.eI > >Bush, Henry Kissinger, retired Gen. Colin Powell, former House SpeakerhI > >Newt Gingrich and Dow Chemical Chairman Frank Popoff, as well as actor- > >Danny Glover. > > F > >The men gather to celebrate what they call "the spirit of Bohemia,"I > >said Peter Phillips, a Sonoma State University sociology professor whog8 > >wrote his doctoral dissertation on the Bohemian Club. >U5 > Wow!  Do they break out into the Bohemian Rhapsody?e  K Ummm, I seem to recall a Fiorinian Rhapsody parody on some popular Web site  or other of late...    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:03:40 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms", Message-ID: <3C3B7AC5.D5857277@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eH > To play devil's advocate, CPQ is pretty limited right now due to QuietM > Period. Either way, maligning Mike Winkler is NOT a way to curry favor fromu	 > Compaq.-  E You have things backwards. Compaq should be currying favours from itsJL customers, not the other way around. If Winkler's statements are pissing offN the profitable customers, then Compaq should know that one of its employees isA costing Compaq a lot more money than just his salary and options.u  I I am done volunteering my time to Compaq. It has hurt me more than it hasi helped me over the years.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:26:41 GMT01 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms"' Message-ID: <3C3BAB2B.EA314CA0@fsi.net>e   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:j > 4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:fmgl3uo0qrt4bo3249qnm6r41qdsannv1u@4ax.com...0 > > On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:18:22 -0500, JF Mezei) > > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:d > >i > > >WILLIAM WEBB wrote: > > >>? > > >> I too believe that Messrs. Marcello, Winkler and (nobody = > > >> mentioned) Gorham are doing the best they can with theh> > > >> resources that the company is allocating for their use. > > >nK > > >I think you have a misconception here.  Winkler is the "enemy" , is iss	 > the onerJ > > >who consistently states that Windows will replace mainframes etc etc. > > I > > It is certainly true he has said these things but keep in mind his "IhH > > have found religion comment" in answer to an email of mine regardingE > > his previous comments. I don't think he has publicly repeated hismB > > "Windows everywhere" statements since then. I can't ignore theE > > possibility he meant it. Nor can I ignore the possibility he justdF > > intended to throw me off. In response to his "how to grow sales" II > > responded with a few points and also suggested he read the previously J > > submitted document had he not already done so. I did not get a further
 > > response.m > H > To play devil's advocate, CPQ is pretty limited right now due to QuietM > Period. Either way, maligning Mike Winkler is NOT a way to curry favor from8	 > Compaq.1  D Well, for the record, I don't target individuals unless they're in aG position to do something constructive and elect not to "rock the boat"..  H Still, I must agree with JF. It's a cold day in hell when customers haveD to curry a vendor's favor rather than having the vendor kiss our ass: just to make a buck. Guess they've forgotten what the wordF "entrepreneur" means. Maybe *THEY* should be on the receiving end of aC layoff for a change. I'll bet *THAT* would set their perspective to E rights! A fellow I worked with had a perspective on the Law of SupplylF and Demand that I'll bet would really fry their noodles: "the customer demands it, so you supply it".  G Seems the Q are not interested in making money else we'd be porting VMScF from *BOTH* Alpha *AND* IA32 to IPF (I know - no one agrees with me on! that score - no flames, please). l  H The Q are not interested in making money else we'd be talking about moreF demand for VMS-capable systems than the Q can produce. (At least then,B "supply and demand" would support their outrageous asking prices!)  G The Q are not interested in making money else we'd be talking about howuH VMS is taking over from NT, W2K, etc. in the data center rather than the other way around..  B The Q are not interested in making money else I'd be talking about! teaching VMS rather than Solaris.e  < Hhmmm... From most of those perspectives, the whole thing is bass-ackward, no?i   -- n David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:46:49 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms"< Message-ID: <taO_7.9436$DG5.86840@rwcrnsc53.ops.asp.att.net>  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C3BAB2B.EA314CA0@fsi.net...u > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >26 > > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message6 > > news:fmgl3uo0qrt4bo3249qnm6r41qdsannv1u@4ax.com...2 > > > On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:18:22 -0500, JF Mezei+ > > > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:c > > >l > > > >WILLIAM WEBB wrote: > > > >>A > > > >> I too believe that Messrs. Marcello, Winkler and (nobodys? > > > >> mentioned) Gorham are doing the best they can with the @ > > > >> resources that the company is allocating for their use. > > > >sJ > > > >I think you have a misconception here.  Winkler is the "enemy" , is is > > the onecL > > > >who consistently states that Windows will replace mainframes etc etc. > > >aK > > > It is certainly true he has said these things but keep in mind his "IhJ > > > have found religion comment" in answer to an email of mine regardingG > > > his previous comments. I don't think he has publicly repeated hiszD > > > "Windows everywhere" statements since then. I can't ignore theG > > > possibility he meant it. Nor can I ignore the possibility he just H > > > intended to throw me off. In response to his "how to grow sales" IK > > > responded with a few points and also suggested he read the previously L > > > submitted document had he not already done so. I did not get a further > > > response.i > >oJ > > To play devil's advocate, CPQ is pretty limited right now due to QuietJ > > Period. Either way, maligning Mike Winkler is NOT a way to curry favor from > > Compaq.  >tF > Well, for the record, I don't target individuals unless they're in aI > position to do something constructive and elect not to "rock the boat".  >n  I About the most constructive thing I've done of late is sell 500 shares of C CPQ and convert 'em into GE (and capital losses for CY01 and CY02).r   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:47:21 -0600, From: "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com>6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms"2 Message-ID: <a1gi09$ro8$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  G I'm holding mine until the vote on the merger and any possible votes onaK retention of company officers.  Its worth the potential greater losses (not F as big as yours, I imagine) to retain that ability.  Oust the buggers.  % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...k >bJ >About the most constructive thing I've done of late is sell 500 shares ofD >CPQ and convert 'em into GE (and capital losses for CY01 and CY02). >a >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:35:21 GMT84 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms". Message-ID: <tEQ_7.32413$Sf2.292110@rwcrnsc52>  7 "Rich Jordan" <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote in message , news:a1gi09$ro8$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...I > I'm holding mine until the vote on the merger and any possible votes on H > retention of company officers.  Its worth the potential greater losses (notH > as big as yours, I imagine) to retain that ability.  Oust the buggers.  K I rather doubt that the 500 shares I divested would have much impact on the K grand scheme of things. I remain a CPQ shareholder, and would never give up G the last coveted ducat that grants admission to the Annual Shareholdersp Meeting.  K Hint: if you intend to drop in on the Annual Shareholder's Meeting, be sure2L you have proof of stock ownership in your possession when you descend on the@ Houston venue. Otherwise you will be denied entry to the matineeK performance; a fate I eluded last year only because I managed to get one ofaG my stock certificates faxed to the meeting registration desk a mere ten-0 minutes before the festivities got underway. ;-}   cheers,<   terry sm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 01:00:12 -05003- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms", Message-ID: <3C3BDC6D.5A793D2A@videotron.ca>   Rich Jordan wrote:I > I'm holding mine until the vote on the merger and any possible votes onoM > retention of company officers.  Its worth the potential greater losses (not.H > as big as yours, I imagine) to retain that ability.  Oust the buggers.  M Ousting the buggers is one thing, but do shareholders have any real influencetN on the selection of their replacement, or would Ben Rosen again choose someone to act on his behalf ?  P If Capellas is fired and they put WInkler in place, will that improve anything ?  M Is there a way for shareholders to actually tell the board WHAT/WHO they want8 as a replacement ?  L If shareholders are not told that VMS is a money maker that has been allowedK to rot by Compaq management, then shareholders won't specifically be asking3K for a new management team that will have a specific madnate to push VMS andv& stop limiting it to only a few niches.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:05:07 GMTg4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>6 Subject: Re: Compaq's Notion of "Enterprise Platforms"> Message-ID: <n4R_7.10796$DG5.109136@rwcrnsc53.ops.asp.att.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C3BDC6D.5A793D2A@videotron.ca... > Rich Jordan wrote:K > > I'm holding mine until the vote on the merger and any possible votes onyJ > > retention of company officers.  Its worth the potential greater losses (notJ > > as big as yours, I imagine) to retain that ability.  Oust the buggers. > E > Ousting the buggers is one thing, but do shareholders have any reale	 influenceRH > on the selection of their replacement, or would Ben Rosen again choose someonen > to act on his behalf ? >eG > If Capellas is fired and they put WInkler in place, will that improve9
 anything ? > J > Is there a way for shareholders to actually tell the board WHAT/WHO they want > as a replacement ?  J Not to the best of my knowledge, although I am not a certified Wall StreetH Casino Croupier. At the last Annual Stockholder's Meeting, an initiativeE allowing more than one candidate for each vacant seat on the Board of>D Directors was voted down. Well, I guess that simplifies the election
 process...   cheers,s   terry s ' If nominated, I'll run. If elected, VMSh   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:50:55 GMTaL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") Subject: csws_php and Multinet?s8 Message-ID: <00A07C0E.A17D43C7@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>   comp.os.vmsers:a  , AlphaServer 800, VMS 7.2-2, Multinet 4.3-AX.  I I just upgraded my Apache/CSWS/perl/mod_perl/mod_php versions current on .K the Compaq website.  Trying to load mod_php, Apache crashes; the server log(L has an error from the image activator that it couldn't load the php4_module.  I (This confused me because I didn't have any trouble doing this on my homee	 machine.)r  I When I tried running php_setup.com and then executing PHP by hand, I got:h   $ phpm5 %DCL-W-ACTIMAGE, error activating image TCPIP$IPC_SHR-% -CLI-E-IMAGEFNF, image file not foundM3 $9$DKA0:[SYS1.SYSCOMMON.][SYSLIB]TCPIP$IPC_SHR.EXE;e $   J Apparently  php is linked against a specific TCPIP Services image.  (I hadJ it on my home machine because I'm running TCPIP Services there.)  Is thereL any easy workaround for using php with Multinet?  (I presume I could get theK source and figure out where it's calling TCPIP$IPC_SHR routines and replace0L those with equivalent Multinet calls and relink and hope I could still build) mod_php, but I've got other stuff to do.)u   Thanks,.   -- Alanw      O ===============================================================================s0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210>O ===============================================================================,   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:18:03 -05000 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca>& Subject: Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)4 Message-ID: <JAH_7.9435$Q06.59990@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>  9 I use lexicals every day and I would not go without them.aJ It`s just that they are not meant to be used *in place* of simpler syntax.   One would never think of doing:CC $ DIR 'f$env("default")'F.LIS /SINCE="''f$cvt("today","absolute")'"i /COLUMN='f$integer("3")e when you can dotG $ DIR SYS$DISK:[]F.LIS/SIN=TODAY/COL=3 or (usually) DIR F.LIS/SIN/COL=3P  L To conclude, I would rather do SEARCH F.LIS/OUT=F.LIS and not have to do theK f$search, the same way I do a SORT F.LIS F.LIS or a CONVERT/FDL=F.FDL F.LISd F.LIS.  L --> Don't take this personal (not intended to be personal at all). It's just- my opinion and I don't force anyone to agree.e   Regards, --   SyltremaI http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  5 "Richard" <no@mail.com> a crit dans le message news:r- q6em3u40jrffgcce0oqhn6ad8h0vkja3cg@4ax.com...m. > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:12:58 -0500, "Syltrem"  <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> > wrote: >dF > >> Larry's suggestion isn't a workaround - that's the way you do it. > >iL > >I like his suggestion very much. Actually, it`s the best so far. But it`sI > >still a workaround for me, as it`s not plain syntax. You`ve got to useS > >lexicals. >cD > I don't know about you, but to me DCL just wouldn't be DCL without	 lexicals.pI > They make the world a very happy place (as you can see first hand now).    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:11:22 GMT18 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)& Subject: Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)2 Message-ID: <uvH_7.412$5Y4.11450@news.cpqcorp.net>  5 In article <GDG_7.9408$Q06.59944@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>, W2 "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> writes: ..L >                               ...(until the SEARCH program is modified and# >that may be a long time from now!)s  K Please note that the suggested change in the behavior of the SEARCH utilityeM could and probably would break some existing DCL procedures.  For this reasoncI alone, it is *VERY* unlikely that such a change will be made.  Although ItL understand what you want and why, is there really a business case for makingJ this change?  My personal preference would be for these different files toJ have different names.  I would think that this might simplify debuging theK DCL code or the application itself.  (My opinion could differ depending on e/ the detailed context of your code/application.)@   -- 5K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAqH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:21:19 -0000 / From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> & Subject: Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)/ Message-ID: <u3ml5vs3m67o3e@corp.supernews.com>w  ' Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:c< : To me, it whould be fine if SEARCH didn't try to open it's= : own output file as input (as in "$ sea *.* /out=somefile").s   /exclude=somefile;   -- r -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:13:11 GMTv1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e& Subject: Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)' Message-ID: <3C3BB612.3EC033A5@fsi.net>w   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  > Or : > 7 > $ PIPE DIR | SEARCH SYS$INPUT SOMETHING /OUTPUT=F.LIS  > B > That will realy create only create *one* F.LIS, not two version.  ; I was unable to duplicate the behavior you report (V7.2-1).U   -- t David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:59:59 GMTr- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>-& Subject: Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)* Message-ID: <3C3BB6C9.3080100@qsl.network>   Syltrem wrote:  K > I would LOVE that the SEARCH command first opens the INPUT file, then the3H > output file. Right now it does the reverse and that`s so inconvenient.G > In so many procedures I am forced to have 2 different temporary filesh > because I do things like:r >  > $ DIR/OUTPUT=F1.LISr( > $ SEAR F1.LIS SOMETHING /OUTPUT=F2.LIS > 7 > I would like to keep it to just one temp file, as in:,    B It will always be in two temp files, no matter what you name them.1 The output is in a different file than the input.o  I Having it open the input file first would not eliminate the second file, a1 it would simply create a new version when it did.o  D Since there is no savings in file I/O, there is no dissadvantage to  using two temporary files.  . $pid = f$getjpi("","PID") ! Prevent collisions- $tfile1 = "sys$scratch:app_name_''pid'_1.tmp"j- $tfile2 = "sys$scratch:app_name_''pid'_2.tmp"m $!4 $if f$search(tfile1) .nes. "" then delete 'tfile1';* $dir/output='tfile1' $!4 $if f$search(tfile2) .nes. "" then delete 'tfile2';*( $search 'tfile1' something /out='tfile2' $! ....   $!
 $all_exit:4 $if f$search(tfile1) .nes. "" then delete 'tfile1';*4 $if f$search(tfile2) .nes. "" then delete 'tfile2';* $exit      -Johnb wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:44:51 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>i& Subject: Re: DCL wish list (of 1 item)2 Message-ID: <3C3BBCB3.62446E7E@firstdbasource.com>  H If this was a unix environment, you don't get a choice most people would5 use a pipe command or another filename all together. d  < $ PIPE DIR/COL=1 | SEARCH SYS$INPUT SOMETHING /OUTPUT=F.LIS < $! a little more verbose... but it does what you want it to.  = I added the COL=1 so that each file appears on a single line.W  H Actually would look like this in unix.  Both do exactly what you want it; to do... not read the output file as a part of the command.     $ ls -la  | grep xyz >>outfile    E This is not a "work-a-round"... it the way it is. Does it do what yous% want... if not, then roll your own...u -- e   Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.como     Syltrem wrote: > N > Of course but someone looking at your code and not knowing the input file isH > opened AFTER the output file in search, will wonder how this can work! > K > This will look like UN*X coding (ie does not make any sense when you readc > it, but is effective)  >  > -- > 	 > SyltremtK > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)r@ > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address > E > "Greg Thomas" <thomasgd@omc.bt.co.uk> a crit dans le message news:a/ > 0q4m3uk41kura7f1v5hc8n5q7fh7aqlbco@4ax.com...f0 > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:31:48 -0500, "Syltrem"5 > > <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote in articleh- > > <DgE_7.9376$Q06.59651@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>:a > >a > > >$ DIR/OUTPUT=F1.LIS+ > > >$ SEAR F1.LIS SOMETHING /OUTPUT=F2.LISo > > >p: > > >I would like to keep it to just one temp file, as in: > > >$ DIR/OUTPUT=F.LIS ) > > >$ SEAR F.LIS SOMETHING /OUTPUT=F.LIS  > > >But it spits out:G > > >%SEARCH-W-OPENIN, error opening DGSI_A1:[TREMBLAY]F.LIS;3 as inputi6 > > >-RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user > >b
 > > How about  > >  > > $ DIR/OUTPUT=F.LIS+ > > $ SEAR F.LIS;-1 SOMETHING /OUTPUT=F.LIS  > >g > > Greg > > --9 > > This post represents the views of the author and does 9 > > not necessarily accurately represent the views of BT.n   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:20:45 +0000 (UTC)1 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@notsohotmail.com>g9 Subject: DECdtm DTI$S_PART_NAME should be (no *IS*)  255!e/ Message-ID: <a1fusd$hrq$1@paris.btinternet.com>i   Hi,n  A In the OpenVMS DECdtm Services Reference Manual V2.0 6-Jun-01 ThefJ Revision History for Jun 6th it continues "Reduce the size of part_name toL match dti$t_part_name". This was clearly a mistake! What should have changed= is dti$s_part_name and dti$t_part_log_id and so on and so on.a  J Ok I know this is not possible because it would break existing code so canH we _please_ have either a new item code like dti$_txn_info_full or a new? flag dti$m_search_verbose or dti$m_full_part_name or dti$m_v21?o  J Only the output list need change. It's fair to say that different productsG should have part_names unique within the first 32 characters so current2 input wildcarding can prevail.  J It's only $getdti that needs to change. I am reliably informed that it's aJ particularly nasty piece of code, and the current DECdtm developers appearJ loath to touch any of the underlying services but you know it makes sense?  E How can $join_rm currently let me enter > 32 byte part_names and LMCP H happily display them if there was a serious restriction? Surely this hasF always been a buglet with $getdti that can't be fixed directly (upwardI compatibility - I always said that you released the API documentation toot, soon :-) but a new item code has to be easy!  H I don't wish to appear ungrateful! The System Service API docs have beenL made publicly available and XA compliance has been introduced. Please acceptL my sincere and heartfelt thanks! But I'm begging ya for this (probably) last (probably) little thing.  C If Jim and crew have moved on to something else I know someone withsC experience in debuging $getdti who might be interested in doing it.g  I If the answer is no then is there another API for getting at the txn log?o- The truth and the real part_name is in there!i   Regards Richard Maher.   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:51:15 +0000 (UTC)1 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@notsohotmail.com>r? Subject: Re: DECdtm V2.0 for OpenVMS Field Test Announcement !!i/ Message-ID: <a1ft52$g76$1@helle.btinternet.com>s   Hi,g  $ Well done Jim and everyone involved!  G This is earth shattering news and yet another mile stone on the road to 
 VMS recovery!   K At least it was earth shattering when you posted it. Sorry for the delay in-H replying, but there's just so much chaff in this news group it's getting' almost impossible to find the wheat :-(c  ? How's the field test going? Do you have a release date in mind?0  K Personally, I would have preferred more of a root and branch set of reformseJ rather than a tack-on but hey this is amazing! Databases under the controlI of DECdtm are now XA compatible and we can have 2PC functionality betweenaG Solaris/Tuxedo/DatabaseX and VMS/Tuxedo/Rdb (or substitute MQseries for ' Tuxedo. Any others? What about ACMSxp?)o  ; If only someone could come up with a two-pipe strategy. . .(  K What about TCP/IP compliance? DECnet over IP good enough? Leave the rest to- the transaction monitors?0  D Anyway once again congradulations. A watershed, a turning point, the- Rubicon, Red Letter Day, Maximum Jollies. . .m   Regards Richard Maher.  ; Sue Skonetski <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote in messageo- news:RuaK7.1721$RL6.57082@news.cpqcorp.net...l3 > Contact information follows if you are interested  >t >m >eD > ******* DECdtm V2.0 for OpenVMS Field Test Announcement !! ******* > K > DECdtm is a distributed transaction manager that coordinates the activityh of > resource managersg >.E > used by an application. DECdtm services are embedded in the OpenVMSt > operating system and >hL > fully support distributed databases using a two-phase commit protocol. The > DECdtm servicesm >iJ > provide the technology and features for distributed processing, ensuring > both transaction and >M> > database integrity across multiple Compaq resource managers. >iB > DECdtm V2.0 implements the XA standard interface from the X/Open distributedt > transaction model. >aJ > The XA interface provides transaction processing interoperability across > OpenVMS Oracle/Rdb,m >iK > OpenVMS Oracle 8i/9i, RMSJ and ACMS. DECdtm V2.0 can interface with other. > vendors XA > F > compliant transaction managers such as BEA Tuxedo and IBM MQ Series. >0I > If you are interested in field testing DECdtm V2.0, please fill out them > field test form and download >m$ > the binaries and documentation at:< > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/decdtm/index.html >t > Thank you for your interest. >t >o >  > Sincerely, >m > Rick McLaughlin  >t > Rick.McLaughlin@compaq.com >o > OpenVMS Business Development >o > Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:52:11 -0500r( From: Francisco Moore <moore@uakron.edu>Y Subject: Does anyone know a way of getting version 7.2  to support the Oxygen vx1 graphic ) Message-ID: <3C3BDA8B.9000106@uakron.edu>l   Hi all,vH I just picked up a ds20 and have installed version 7.2 off the hobbyist E cd. My Oxygen Vx1 graphics card is not supported. I can find the Vx1 dH patches for just about every release except 7.2. Has anyone solved this  problem before?l thanks,t
 Paco Moore University of Akrone moore@uakron.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:15:35 -0500; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>e2 Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support?" Message-ID: <3c3b619d@news.si.com>  D >do you have a VMS software support contract and do you ever use it?  
 Of course. -- rA Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comr= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:22:03 GMTt# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s2 Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support?> Message-ID: <%pJ_7.155406$pa1.46496804@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:AJQv4Vyuo0$o@eisner.encompasserve.org...9 >nF >    Get real.  DSIN predates PCs.  M$ TechNet is the same ideia as so >    many before it. >   J Same goes for most software patents granted by the USPTO. But don't get me$ started on that line of bitching....   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:04:01 GMTn) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton)B2 Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support?1 Message-ID: <3c3b7a08.777529388@news.wcc.govt.nz>   @ On 7 Jan 2002 17:15:25 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  C >I'm just curious with all the posts on this board seeking help forS@ >VMS questions or problems from people who work for companies or? >institutions of higher learning ... do you have a VMS softwareLC >support contract and do you ever use it?  Bronze level support canuJ >be bought for roughly $700/year compared to $1700/year for NT support ... >what a bargain!  @ Tend to use this forum and Compaq Support for differet problems.  A Compaq Support where the problem is specifically VMS or a layered 	 product. d@ This forum for freeware, general has anyone done this, seen thisC tested this etc. and recently what I thought was a problem with TSMd% where I didn't think I'd get support. E It was actually solved by the ever wonderful Compaq Australia SupportI folks and it wasn't TSM.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:26:18 GMTt* From: joell@mindspring.com (Joel Loveless)2 Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support?. Message-ID: <3c3b7fb2.2010381@news.alltel.net>  E Helps to keep my memory of some issues fresh. We use Platinum supporttF and DSNLink is a wonderful source. But, I have solved several problems3 with the newsgroups that even CSC could not answer.l    @ On 7 Jan 2002 17:15:25 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote:  C >I'm just curious with all the posts on this board seeking help for=@ >VMS questions or problems from people who work for companies or? >institutions of higher learning ... do you have a VMS software C >support contract and do you ever use it?  Bronze level support can J >be bought for roughly $700/year compared to $1700/year for NT support ... >what a bargain!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 15:28:49 -0500e5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com>rS Subject: Re: From the New York Times today Compaq to Post Profit and Beat Estimates72 Message-ID: <YFY7PIvxc4c8MZAjnA=qxRMaiFVJ@4ax.com>  7 I heard about the profit announcement on CNN yesterday.t3 It would be interesting to know where the increaseds revenue came from.   David R. Beattyg  2 On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:28:20 -0500, "Sue Skonetski"# <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> wrote:r   >January 8, 2002 >t > ) >Compaq to Post Profit and Beat Estimatesu >y >By CHRIS GAITHER= > F >Compaq Computer (news/quote), the No. 2 personal computer maker, saidK >yesterday that it would report stronger-than-expected sales for the fourth B >quarter and a profit instead of the narrow loss it had predicted. >oJ >With little elaboration, Compaq said preliminary figures from the quarterM >ended Dec. 31 indicated that the company had surpassed its own forecasts andi* >the expectations of Wall Street analysts. >,I >Sales still lagged the fourth quarter of 2000, by nearly one- third, butlL >showed sharp improvement from the troubled third quarter, when the Sept. 11L >attacks and other unexpected events cut sharply into sales and profits, theI >company said. The company suggested that the progress reported yesterday.K >served to refute claims by rival computer makers that the beleaguered planuJ >for Hewlett- Packard to acquire Compaq had distracted both companies from >their daily business. > M >"These results represent strong execution and Compaq's solid momentum in the K >marketplace," Michael D. Capellas, chairman and chief executive of Compaq, F >said in a statement. "I am extremely proud of our employees and their4 >continued focus on our business and our customers." > M >Compaq, based in Houston, said it would report sales of at least $8 billion,pJ >compared with its earlier prediction of $7.6 billion to $7.8 billion. TheH >better-than-expected sales will yield a profitable quarter, the companyG >said, beating Wall Street's expectations of a loss of 3 cents a share.  >eL >Arch Currid, a spokesman for the company, said it would report a profit "noM >matter how you slice it," either including or excluding one-time items, wheno% >it reports final results on Jan. 16.i >yE >Wall Street analysts, who predicted a dreary fourth quarter for manytK >computer vendors, said Compaq was helped by better- than-expected sales ina& >Europe and in American retail stores. >iL >Gateway, a rival computer maker, failed to improve its sales from its thirdH >quarter. Gateway yesterday repeated its prediction that it would post aC >profit for its fourth quarter, excluding one- time items, but said M >preliminary figures indicated sales of $1.16 billion, down from $1.4 billion  >in the third quarter. >qM >According to a study put out yesterday by Salomon Smith Barney, consumers inwL >the United States bought more personal computers during the holidays, afterI >poor demand for most of 2001. Sales doubled during Thanksgiving week andiF >finished the year strong, leading to a 30 percent gain from the thirdH >quarter to the fourth. Compaq gets about 15 percent of its revenue from >consumer PC sales.i >iH >Still, Richard Gardner, an analyst with Salomon Smith Barney, said thatJ >corporations continued to spend frugally on new computers. PC makers soldH >fewer machines during the holidays than during the comparable period inJ >2000 - an excellent year for computer sales. Salomon Smith Barney said itJ >did not expect that trend to reverse until the economy begins to recover,) >possibly in the second half of the year.C >YJ >Shortly before Compaq released its preliminary figures yesterday morning,K >Lehman Brothers (news/quote) upgraded its rating on the company's stock topF >strong buy. Daniel T. Niles, an analyst with Lehman Brothers, said heI >thought that programs begun last year to cut costs, reduce inventory and.M >better mimic the direct sales model used by Dell Computer (news/quote) would9 >bear fruit in 2002. >MG >Mr. Niles said corporate customers have apparently stayed with Compaq,eF >despite growing uncertainty surrounding its deal with Hewlett-PackardK >(news/quote). A bitter proxy fight between Hewlett- Packard and one of itsfJ >board members, Walter Hewlett, has threatened to derail the merger plans.M >But since the deal was announced in early September, Compaq has continued toiI >sign large contracts with customers like Ericsson (news/quote), Raytheon2. >(news/quote) and General Motors (news/quote). >pL >Mr. Currid, the company spokesman, said Compaq had beaten Dell, the world'sK >leading PC maker, and other rivals in head-to-head competition for severalnD >contracts since the merger was announced in early September. "We're0 >continuing to win in the marketplace," he said. >hG >In regular trading, shares of Compaq rose 29 cents, to $11.68. Gatewaye >gained 43 cents, to $10.25. >( >"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:55:30 GMTj= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)rS Subject: Re: From the New York Times today Compaq to Post Profit and Beat Estimatesi0 Message-ID: <00A07BED.BE79325F@SendSpamHere.ORG>  j In article <YFY7PIvxc4c8MZAjnA=qxRMaiFVJ@4ax.com>, David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes: >i8 >I heard about the profit announcement on CNN yesterday.4 >It would be interesting to know where the increased >revenue came from.- >- >David R. Beatty  5 Certainly not from cutting back on VMS advertisement.<   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMB            fJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:43:46 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>S Subject: Re: From the New York Times today Compaq to Post Profit and Beat Estimates : Message-ID: <BCK_7.2424$fG.7966@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A07BED.BE79325F@SendSpamHere.ORG...A > In article <YFY7PIvxc4c8MZAjnA=qxRMaiFVJ@4ax.com>, David Beattyl* <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> writes: > >n: > >I heard about the profit announcement on CNN yesterday.6 > >It would be interesting to know where the increased > >revenue came from.o > >t > >David R. Beatty >n7 > Certainly not from cutting back on VMS advertisement.c >w  G "Nothin' from Nothin' Leaves Nothin'..." or whatever it was that Stevien Wonder once crooned...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:51:18 -0800(' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> 7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!a+ Message-ID: <3C3B4DB6.FFFC9D6C@caltech.edu>c   Bill Todd wrote: > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:xaZvRBOWtPXF@eisner.encompasserve.org...e< > > In article <3C39DE1E.636ABF72@caltech.edu>, David Mathog > <mathog@caltech.edu> writes: > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:T >  > ...  > M > > >> Doh, yeah! The future for sure! I wouldn't expect to see the $999 IA64t > boxo0 > > >> for several years, maybe even five years. > > >AL > > > How about maybe never?  The IA64 is Intel's replacement for the Xeon - > when havei	 > > > you[% > > > ever seen a Xeon box under 1K$?- > > >l > >rB > > He's talking about Deerfield.. a "low-cost" IA64 desktop part. >  <SNIP> > 5 > So I don't think Terry was talking about Deerfield.r  6 I'll believe it when I see it - whatever they call it.  L Remember all those nice presentations about low cost Alphas  - none of whichK ever arrived?  I'd point you to the links on the PCVMS page but I took thatmJ offline a while back after my arm grew weary from beating that dead horse.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:53:37 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!o, Message-ID: <BTJ_7.8405$762.73551@rwcrnsc54>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3C3B4DB6.FFFC9D6C@caltech.edu...a > Bill Todd wrote: > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:xaZvRBOWtPXF@eisner.encompasserve.org...f> > > > In article <3C39DE1E.636ABF72@caltech.edu>, David Mathog  > > <mathog@caltech.edu> writes:! > > > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:t > >i > > ...r > >sJ > > > >> Doh, yeah! The future for sure! I wouldn't expect to see the $999 IA64 > > boxn2 > > > >> for several years, maybe even five years. > > > >mG > > > > How about maybe never?  The IA64 is Intel's replacement for the  Xeon -
 > > when haver > > > > yout' > > > > ever seen a Xeon box under 1K$?  > > > >n > > >aD > > > He's talking about Deerfield.. a "low-cost" IA64 desktop part. > >a > <SNIP> > >l7 > > So I don't think Terry was talking about Deerfield.  >s8 > I'll believe it when I see it - whatever they call it. >iH > Remember all those nice presentations about low cost Alphas  - none of whichtH > ever arrived?  I'd point you to the links on the PCVMS page but I took thatL > offline a while back after my arm grew weary from beating that dead horse.  L I believe ONE low-cost Alpha chip was produced, the 21066 used in the Multia IIRC.t  I There were plans for additional Alpha-LC (nnn66) and Alpha-ULC (Ultra Lowa6 Cost) (nnn68) parts, but these never came to fruition.  K Sequestered somewhere in the Charlie Matco Basement of Doom is a circa 1990fK or 91 Alpha presentation which made all sorts of fabulous claims. Perhaps I L should have Charlie try to dig this document up... it would clearly indicateG the bill o' goods that the Merchant Microprocessor Mavens sold to DEC'sr" management and Board of Directors.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 01:45:31 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!i; Message-ID: <%gN_7.3408$fG.12938@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>d  - Cedric Zool, Notorious Belgian Hacker said...t   > >wI > > I believe ONE low-cost Alpha chip was produced, the 21066 used in theu Multia	 > > IIRC.w >rE > While the Multia was a very nice little box it was not a low priced  system.t
 > (DigitalJ > probably thought it was but if memory serves it was 3X or 4X more than a PC.) > J > > Sequestered somewhere in the Charlie Matco Basement of Doom is a circa 1990E > > or 91 Alpha presentation which made all sorts of fabulous claims.P	 Perhaps IlG > > should have Charlie try to dig this document up... it would clearlyM indicateK > > the bill o' goods that the Merchant Microprocessor Mavens sold to DEC's & > > management and Board of Directors. >tH > I'll bet that if you change "Alpha" for "IA64" in this presentation it will > soundoA > just like the blather we're hearing from Intel/Compaq/HP today.o >,
 > Regards, >R > David Mathog  A Very similar to the AlphaBlather with a couple of exceptions. ThenK AlphaBlather of 1990 failed to make a single reference to two things that ao@ few computer users have found useful on occasion. Those would beG "applications" and an "operating system." Neither were mentioned in the* Alpha Aesop's Fable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:25:35 -0000e/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>E: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC. Message-ID: <u3mhtf8c5pqd7@corp.supernews.com>  6 In comp.os.vms Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:I :> Is that true? If so how do you delete all files called something.x andn8 :> all files called something.c at the same time on VMS?   : delete *.c.*,*.x.*  ( I don't think that's what he was asking.  > He wants to delete the *.c files that have a corresponding *.x* file (the same "something" in both cases).   -- n -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:52:59 GMT3 From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US>t: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC. Message-ID: <u1yh01uxw.fsf@spacy.Boston.MA.US>  A All this ignorant talk about the imagined problems with operating B systems whose DELETE commands simply mark the entry as "deleted", > but only free the space of such files when a seperate EXPUNGE F command are used...is hillarious, or sad.  There are decades of actualF experience with such operating systems, of which TOPS-20 was only one. They worked great!   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:08:43 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <00A07BC5.AE04697A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <u3mhtf8c5pqd7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net> writes:7 >In comp.os.vms Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:iJ >:> Is that true? If so how do you delete all files called something.x and9 >:> all files called something.c at the same time on VMS?i >o >: delete *.c.*,*.x.*e > ) >I don't think that's what he was asking.u >8? >He wants to delete the *.c files that have a corresponding *.xt+ >file (the same "something" in both cases).y  F If that's what he means, then you'd have to write a little DCL.  (Not H tested, sorry.)  This'll find every *.c file, delete it, and delete the E corresponding .x file if there is one.  Depending on whether you careoH about matching the version numbers, etc, you may need to make additionalL changes.  This constructs the .X file name and checks to see that it exists;K you could also $ SET NOON and just DELETE it, which will fail harmlessly ifrJ the file isn't there, but that will produce ugly error messages unless youJ $ SET MESSAGE to turn it all off, and I'd rather not keep turning them off
 and on again.e   $ START:" $   CFILE  = F$SEARCH ("*.c;*",1) 9 $   IF (CFILE .EQS. "") THEN EXIT  ! didn't find any morel $   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'CFILEG $   ! If you want to get only the corresponding .x version for each .c a: $   ! version, the command below will do it; otherwise do - $   ! ".X;*" and leave off the second F$PARSEsG $   XFILE = F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"NAME") + ".X" + F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"VERSION")i $   XFILE = F$SEARCH (XFILE,2)' $   IF (XFILE .EQS. "") THEN GOTO START  $   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'XFILE $   GOTO START     -- Alann    O ===============================================================================80  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210wO ===============================================================================s   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2002 12:02:40 -0800p+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>m: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC) Message-ID: <a1fj9001lf3@drn.newsguy.com>o  I In article <dgG_7.12427$6q2.2826180@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com>, "Adamo says...e >  >d; >"Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message,. >news:uRQUc8GMYybi@eisner.encompasserve.org...P >>In article <a9m_7.764$Kf.13708@ord-read.news.verio.net>, robert@bonomi.invalid	 >>writes:v >> > copy *.c *.xe >> >         delete *.c *.xI >> >H >> > does "*.x" mean the _same_thing_ in both situations?  i.e., does it/ >> > ALWAYS expand to the *same* list of names?( >>E >>    No, which is why the second statement is illegal syntax.  Again-J >>    "mean the same thing" is not equivalent to "the same list of names". >sG >Is that true? If so how do you delete all files called something.x and 6 >all files called something.c at the same time on VMS?   DELETE *.C,*.X  K (Ok, really you need to specify the version too, but I won't tax a Unix-on-)/ the-brains guy with trying to understand that.)o  G Note the comma.  DCL arguments are not just a bunch of things separatedw by spaces; this is by design.i   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:38:51 GMTy From: reobert@bonomi.invalid: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <vNI_7.809$Kf.14422@ord-read.news.verio.net>  3 In article <uRQUc8GMYybi@eisner.encompasserve.org>,4. Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:9 >In article <a9m_7.764$Kf.13708@ord-read.news.verio.net>,y >robert@bonomi.invalid writes: >> a >> Consider the two statements:A >> x >>           copy *.x *.y  >>           copy *.c *.xn >> CG >> does "*.x" mean the _same_thing_ in both situations?  i.e., does it e- >> ALWAYS expand to the *same* list of names?  > H >   "mean the same thing" is not equivalent to "the same list of names".F >   You're choosing a meaning to ake your point valid, but that is not@ >   the documented meaning.  I'm choosing a meaning close to the@ >   documented meaning which makes my point valid.  How long are  >   you willing to keep this up?  D Oh, until you see the difference between "expands to a list of namesE that _currently_exist_in_the_filesystem_namespace_" and 'derived from K some other list, resulting in names that _may_or_may_not_currently_exist_".    >oF >   *.x means one thing to the average UNIX shell and another thing to# >   DCL.  That should be suprizing?   J Not at all.  But it means _different_ things, depending on "what position"J it appears in.  Sometimes it's "legal", sometimes it's "illegal".  This isJ most difficult to reconcile with a claim that it has a single "consistent" meaning.  L >> does the language allow two specifications on a "file delete" opertation?G >> i.e., can you "delete  foo  bar"?  if so, consider the following twob >> statements: >> t >> 	copy *.c *.x >>         delete *.c *.xr >>  G >> does "*.x" mean the _same_thing_ in both situations?  i.e., does it a- >> ALWAYS expand to the *same* list of names?  >pC >   No, which is why the second statement is illegal syntax.  AgaindH >   "mean the same thing" is not equivalent to "the same list of names". >s  I OK, then *HOW* do I "delete all '.c' files, _and_ delete all files of the L same base name but with an '.x' extension."  since it *is* 'illegal syntax'?  J What does:   "foo  *.c  *.x" mean, when 'foo' is an arbitrary (even _user-H written_) command?  Is the user code free to interpret the 'unmodified' E tokens as it sees fit, or are the wildcards "pre-interpreted" by the eH command-line interpreter in a single manner?  Apparently it is *not* theM command-line interpreter, since "*.c *.x" is legal in some cases, and illegald
 in others.  K How can it be "consistent", when it's valid in some instances, and 'illegala syntax' in others?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:59:41 +0100k9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>a: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C3B5DBD.217B4B65@aaa.com>n  * I think you are missing two things here...   1. Command lines parameters.  = - The DIRECTORY command takes *one* parameter. That parameterr?   should be the file or files to be listed. The paramater coulde)   a single valid VMS file spec (HOST"Usero pw"::dev:[dir]name.ext;version),B   with wildcards and defaults in apropriate places, or a number ofB   file specifications separated with a comma ",". It's still *one*   single parameter.q  @ - The COPY command takes two paramaters. The input file spec andC   the output file spec. The first paramater (input file spec) couldhH   be a single file spec or a combination of multiple file specificationsG   separated by a comma ",". It's still only *two* parameters as seen byh   COPY.EXE.   1 2. Defaulting a missing version to <all versions>o  @ - The DIRECTORY command will accept a file specification without;   a specific version. This will defaults to <all versions>.    So "DIRECTORY *.C" is valid.  @ - The DELETE command either take a ";*" version wildcard to mean?   all versions, or any of the other ways of specifying absoluten    or rellative versions numbers.   So "DELETE *.C" is invalid.t    > So, "*.c *.x" is valid syntax to those commands that takes two= input parameters and where these parameters dont need to havet= version numbers. I can think of COPY, APPEND and DIFFERENCES.r  > "*.c *.x" is invalid syntax if the command do *not* accept two parameters.t   Simple, isn't it :-)  ? And if foo is some program you have written, you'll get exactlyq? "*.c *.x", and it's up to foo to do whatever it want with it...t   Jan-Erik Sderholm.t   reobert@bonomi.invalid wrote:a  K > OK, then *HOW* do I "delete all '.c' files, _and_ delete all files of thepN > same base name but with an '.x' extension."  since it *is* 'illegal syntax'? > L > What does:   "foo  *.c  *.x" mean, when 'foo' is an arbitrary (even _user-I > written_) command?  Is the user code free to interpret the 'unmodified'PF > tokens as it sees fit, or are the wildcards "pre-interpreted" by theJ > command-line interpreter in a single manner?  Apparently it is *not* theO > command-line interpreter, since "*.c *.x" is legal in some cases, and illegal  > in others. > M > How can it be "consistent", when it's valid in some instances, and 'illegal- > syntax' in others?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:32:31 GMTb From: robert@bonomi.invalid:: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <PzJ_7.811$Kf.14678@ord-read.news.verio.net>  . In article <u1yh01uxw.fsf@spacy.Boston.MA.US>,5 Christopher Stacy  <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US> wrote:>B >All this ignorant talk about the imagined problems with operatingC >systems whose DELETE commands simply mark the entry as "deleted", m? >but only free the space of such files when a seperate EXPUNGE  G >command are used...is hillarious, or sad.  There are decades of actualAG >experience with such operating systems, of which TOPS-20 was only one.  >They worked great!r >a  H In general, _most_ operating systems "worked great".  DELETE/EXPUNGE hasJ nothing intrinsicly wrong with it.  It _is_ a nice feature when the *only*I way the expunge happens is when the user expressly initiates it.  When iteH _can_ happen automatically/unintentionally (e.g. at session log-out), orI be independantly initiated by the O/S, 'in time of need',  It does result G in a degree of 'unpredictability' in system behavior.  And users *will*aG be unhappy when that unpredictability does happen to bite -them-.  And 8O will blame the system, not their own goof-up.  Limiting EXPUNGE (or equivalent)eJ to user-initiated *only*, is a 'luxury'.  It requires additional resourcesH to support. In systems of the '70s, and early '80s, the incremental costH _was_ "non-trivial".   A user transiting from a system with the luxuriesH to one without them -- even if the hardware and O/S was the same, was in for some "rude suprises".o    L Christopher, your statement of "ignorant talk about the imagined problems.."L demonstrates *your* arrogance, ignorance, and lack of breadth of experience.  H I have used, and supported users on, a *wide* variety of systems, super-K computers to micros, and all levels inbetween.  Various of which -have- hadmI EXPUNGE/DELETE, or equivalents, and others which have worked on the basisCL of 'you said it, you meant it, *now*'.  I have "direct first-hand knowledge"H of users *doing* _every_one_ of the various kinds of dumb things I have I mentioned.  It really *IS* true that "for every fool-proof system, there v@ exists a sufficiently-determined fool capable of breaking it."     ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:10:35 GMT  From: robert@bonomi.invalidn: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <v7K_7.813$Kf.14724@ord-read.news.verio.net>  ' In article <3C3B5DBD.217B4B65@aaa.com>,e( Jan-Erik Sderholm  <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:  $ [[.. snip a bunch of good stuff ..]] >o@ >And if foo is some program you have written, you'll get exactly@ >"*.c *.x", and it's up to foo to do whatever it want with it... >a  N Which confirms that the VMS/DCL interpretation of wildcards is as inconsistantL as the programmer(s) care to make it.  "directory entries", "related names", or "something (anything) else".3  M And, that there is *NO*WAY* -- from inspection of the command-line only -- totN determine which interpretation applies, to which instance.  Specific knowledge' of the particular context is required.    N The semantics of the wildcard construct depend utterly on the context in which it is employed.   K For commands bundled with VMS or built into DCL, there has been effort mademJ to classify various instances of wildcard availability into groups, and toM ensure that within those groups that the wildcard behaves in the same manner.iG The authors *did* do a very good job of limiting the number of distincteK behavior groups, and using 'intuitively obvious' selection of which behviorvA was to apply in various contexts.as to apply in various contexts.e  I User-written commands _can_, but DO NOT HAVE TO employ the same semanticssI as *any* of those employed by system-supplied commnds.  "foo *.x *.y" is fH free to use one of the strings '*.x' or '*.y' as, for example, a patternL of text to search for, in the list of files represented by the other string.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2002 16:24:05 -0600i From: rivie@cougar.no.domain: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC3 Message-ID: <slrna3msvs.1dl.rivie@cougar.no.domain>    robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:O > And, that there is *NO*WAY* -- from inspection of the command-line only -- to P > determine which interpretation applies, to which instance.  Specific knowledge) > of the particular context is required.   > P > The semantics of the wildcard construct depend utterly on the context in which > it is employed.s  G Unix isn't really any better. There is no way -- from inspection of thelE command-line only -- to determine whether or not something is even a  F filename. If there were, rm wouldn't get confused when you try to hand  it filenames beginning with '-'. -- d
 Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu-    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!y> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:45:33 -0500 From: William_Bochnik@acml.com: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC> Message-ID: <OF9516AAB1.26253833-ON85256B3B.007CDD4B@acml.com>  < This is like arguing over red versus blue with someone who'sA color blind - he has "his" definitions of things and will not seeh any other point of view.               reobert@bonomi.invalid       01/08/2002 03:38 PM        Please respond to reobertn  5                            To:  Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                             cc:G              Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECh  3 In article <uRQUc8GMYybi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:9 >In article <a9m_7.764$Kf.13708@ord-read.news.verio.net>,t >robert@bonomi.invalid writes: >> >> Consider the two statements:t >> >>           copy *.x *.ya >>           copy *.c *.x  >>F >> does "*.x" mean the _same_thing_ in both situations?  i.e., does it- >> ALWAYS expand to the *same* list of names?t >wH >   "mean the same thing" is not equivalent to "the same list of names".F >   You're choosing a meaning to ake your point valid, but that is not@ >   the documented meaning.  I'm choosing a meaning close to the@ >   documented meaning which makes my point valid.  How long are  >   you willing to keep this up?  D Oh, until you see the difference between "expands to a list of namesE that _currently_exist_in_the_filesystem_namespace_" and 'derived fromaK some other list, resulting in names that _may_or_may_not_currently_exist_".e   >.F >   *.x means one thing to the average UNIX shell and another thing to# >   DCL.  That should be suprizing?t  J Not at all.  But it means _different_ things, depending on "what position"J it appears in.  Sometimes it's "legal", sometimes it's "illegal".  This isJ most difficult to reconcile with a claim that it has a single "consistent" meaning.  L >> does the language allow two specifications on a "file delete" opertation?G >> i.e., can you "delete  foo  bar"?  if so, consider the following two  >> statements: >> >>  copy *.c *.x >>         delete *.c *.xn >>F >> does "*.x" mean the _same_thing_ in both situations?  i.e., does it- >> ALWAYS expand to the *same* list of names?t >XC >   No, which is why the second statement is illegal syntax.  AgainoH >   "mean the same thing" is not equivalent to "the same list of names". >n  I OK, then *HOW* do I "delete all '.c' files, _and_ delete all files of the L same base name but with an '.x' extension."  since it *is* 'illegal syntax'?  J What does:   "foo  *.c  *.x" mean, when 'foo' is an arbitrary (even _user-G written_) command?  Is the user code free to interpret the 'unmodified'<D tokens as it sees fit, or are the wildcards "pre-interpreted" by theH command-line interpreter in a single manner?  Apparently it is *not* theM command-line interpreter, since "*.c *.x" is legal in some cases, and illegal 
 in others.  K How can it be "consistent", when it's valid in some instances, and 'illegald syntax' in others?          F ______________________________________________________________________  The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the use of the person(s) name above.  If you are not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this{ message to the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly  prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:56:41 -0500( From: "John S. Dyson" <dyson@iquest.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC0 Message-ID: <oNK_7.18$vb1.1834@news1.iquest.net>  ) <rivie@cougar.no.domain> wrote in message - news:slrna3msvs.1dl.rivie@cougar.no.domain...v > robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:Q > > And, that there is *NO*WAY* -- from inspection of the command-line only -- tocR > > determine which interpretation applies, to which instance.  Specific knowledge* > > of the particular context is required. > > R > > The semantics of the wildcard construct depend utterly on the context in which > > it is employed.= >=I > Unix isn't really any better. There is no way -- from inspection of theoF > command-line only -- to determine whether or not something is even aH > filename. If there were, rm wouldn't get confused when you try to hand" > it filenames beginning with '-'. >9H rm doesn't get confused...   rm provides an escape mechanism (--) or theM more formal specification of the filename (./-foo).   You do have to remember4Q that normally a '-' is the switch character, but with other OSes, the '/' is.  IfdH you have a filename called '/switch' of somekind, you are likely to haveL some kind of trouble, aren't you?  :-).   What if you have a filename calledG '//validswitch' in other OSes?   Quoting mechanisms can be your friend,eH or specifying a full filespec should also be available to get you out ofI trouble.   Perhaps some filesystems might also be restrictive as to valid A characters in a filename, but problems do happen once in a while.*  J Am I seeing a bias where '-' isn't the switch character, and an assumption* that the directory seperator '/' is?  :-).   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:17:14 +0000a% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>e: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C3B7DFA.91667AB7@iee.org>f   "John S. Dyson" wrote: > + > <rivie@cougar.no.domain> wrote in messagerK > > Unix isn't really any better. There is no way -- from inspection of therH > > command-line only -- to determine whether or not something is even aJ > > filename. If there were, rm wouldn't get confused when you try to hand$ > > it filenames beginning with '-'. > > J > rm doesn't get confused...   rm provides an escape mechanism (--) or the  ( I thin khe meant given the command line:   foo -t wibble wobble- exactly what is (are) the filename(s) if any?n  1 For most OSes, you are expected to have some clueo about what you are typing ...e  5 With OpenVMS, at least when using DCL[1] and assumingw5 that you don't have programs around that deliberately>7 defy the accepted conventions[2], then input and output.5 filespecs are different. Allocation another character & (say #, for sake of argument) to mean 3 "wildcarded-output-spec" would have been considereds: a waste of an otherwise potentially useful (in the future)
 character.  + [1] You can write your own command languagen*     processor for OpenVMS, just as you can*     write your own shell, should you be so
     inclined.o  ( [2] If you use the CLD (Command Language(     Definiton) mechanism then DCL checks(     the command line syntax against that)     you specified. Once the program runs,n,     it has to pickup and process the various)     portions itself. It could do anythingl.     it wants with "*.x" - it would, of course,*     be something of a surprise to the user,     if it chose to interpret that as meaning.     "every file in the user's home directory",.     but that's really down to the implementor!   Antonioh   -- t   ---------------.- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orga   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:39:32 -0500( From: Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECB Message-ID: <20020108213737.J49582-100000@server2.cs.scranton.edu>  ! On 8 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:o  A >    VMS never let us do silly things like make a *.C, even ODS-5_@ >    won't.  I'm still hoping COE won't, but I recall POSIX did.  A I would guess, based on what I know of COE at this point, that itt' will require it to be a valid filename.m   >h> >    I'm also impressed by the number of responders who recast8 >    *.C which I specifically said was a C++ file to *.c  @ Well, it was the "*" that was significant and not the extension.   bill   -- lJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2002 02:50:42 GMTo( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1gb62$1ocb$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  M In article <slrna3msvs.1dl.rivie@cougar.no.domain>,  <ivie@cc.usu.edu> wrote: H >Unix isn't really any better. There is no way -- from inspection of theF >command-line only -- to determine whether or not something is even a G >filename. If there were, rm wouldn't get confused when you try to hand ! >it filenames beginning with '-'.m  J But there is a way to ensure that something is a filename: qualify it with a path.r   -- u@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)n   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2002 02:56:11 GMT ( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1gbgb$1ond$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  3 In article <wtke8yWsCjH4@eisner.encompasserve.org>, . Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:D >In article <a1crkn$45p$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>, peter@taronga.com >(Peter da Silva) writes: 6 >> In article <dye7SH1FJ3w3@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 >> Bob Koehler <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote:iH >>>   Using my script, all the following fail to pass properly to the cp >>>   command:  H >> You're mistaking the finger for the moon. Have a look at the modified >> script I just posted.  A >   No, I was making a point about the limitations of quoting andr
 >   escaping.   / You're still mistaking the finger for the moon.s   -- s@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2002 02:48:58 GMTa( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1gb2q$1oal$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  8 In article <00A07BC5.AE04697A@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,K Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> wrote:f	 >$ START:p# >$   CFILE  = F$SEARCH ("*.c;*",1) x: >$   IF (CFILE .EQS. "") THEN EXIT  ! didn't find any more >$   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'CFILEfH >$   ! If you want to get only the corresponding .x version for each .c ; >$   ! version, the command below will do it; otherwise do o. >$   ! ".X;*" and leave off the second F$PARSEH >$   XFILE = F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"NAME") + ".X" + F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"VERSION") >$   XFILE = F$SEARCH (XFILE,2) ( >$   IF (XFILE .EQS. "") THEN GOTO START >$   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'XFILEa >$   GOTO STARTn   for i in *.c do   rm "./$i"n   j="`basename "$i" .c`.x"   if [ -f "./$j"]-   then rm "./$j"   fi done   -- u@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:14:48 -0800+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>t: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECV Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201081913020.29726-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>  * On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:# > On 8 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:,C > >    VMS never let us do silly things like make a *.C, even ODS-5nB > >    won't.  I'm still hoping COE won't, but I recall POSIX did.C > I would guess, based on what I know of COE at this point, that itN) > will require it to be a valid filename.   C VMS won't let you make a file called "*.C" under any circumstances?   . Proof positive that VMS is a piece of garbage.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcsF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Jan 2002 18:54:48 -1000/ From: Jim Thomas <thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>p: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <wwlmf8m8dj.fsf@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>  F >>>>> "Alan" == "Alan Winston <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:  N  Alan> In article <u3mhtf8c5pqd7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga writes::  >> In comp.os.vms Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:M  >> :> Is that true? If so how do you delete all files called something.x and <  >> :> all files called something.c at the same time on VMS?  >>   >> : delete *.c.*,*.x.*  >> ,  >> I don't think that's what he was asking.  >> B  >> He wants to delete the *.c files that have a corresponding *.x.  >> file (the same "something" in both cases).  M  Alan> If that's what he means, then you'd have to write a little DCL.  (Not hO  Alan> tested, sorry.)  This'll find every *.c file, delete it, and delete the  -  Alan> corresponding .x file if there is one.     Alan> $ START:t)  Alan> $   CFILE  = F$SEARCH ("*.c;*",1) n@  Alan> $   IF (CFILE .EQS. "") THEN EXIT  ! didn't find any more#  Alan> $   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'CFILEoN  Alan> $   ! If you want to get only the corresponding .x version for each .c A  Alan> $   ! version, the command below will do it; otherwise do :4  Alan> $   ! ".X;*" and leave off the second F$PARSEN  Alan> $   XFILE = F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"NAME") + ".X" + F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"VERSION")%  Alan> $   XFILE = F$SEARCH (XFILE,2)<.  Alan> $   IF (XFILE .EQS. "") THEN GOTO START#  Alan> $   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'XFILE   Alan> $   GOTO START]  K They way I read the spec, the two DELETEX's need to be together down at the.J bottom.  This deletes all .c files, not only those that have a matching .x   Nothead    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:29:16 GMT(L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr"): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <00A07C13.FD43C523@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <wwlmf8m8dj.fsf@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>, Jim Thomas <thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu> writes:G >>>>>> "Alan" == "Alan Winston <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:w >hO > Alan> In article <u3mhtf8c5pqd7@corp.supernews.com>, Michael Zarlenga writes:b; > >> In comp.os.vms Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:vN > >> :> Is that true? If so how do you delete all files called something.x and= > >> :> all files called something.c at the same time on VMS?d > >>   > >> : delete *.c.*,*.x.*i > >> e- > >> I don't think that's what he was asking.s > >> nC > >> He wants to delete the *.c files that have a corresponding *.xa/ > >> file (the same "something" in both cases).b >DN > Alan> If that's what he means, then you'd have to write a little DCL.  (Not P > Alan> tested, sorry.)  This'll find every *.c file, delete it, and delete the . > Alan> corresponding .x file if there is one. >, > Alan> $ START:* > Alan> $   CFILE  = F$SEARCH ("*.c;*",1) A > Alan> $   IF (CFILE .EQS. "") THEN EXIT  ! didn't find any morem$ > Alan> $   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'CFILEO > Alan> $   ! If you want to get only the corresponding .x version for each .c @B > Alan> $   ! version, the command below will do it; otherwise do 5 > Alan> $   ! ".X;*" and leave off the second F$PARSElO > Alan> $   XFILE = F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"NAME") + ".X" + F$PARSE(CFILE,,,"VERSION")k& > Alan> $   XFILE = F$SEARCH (XFILE,2)/ > Alan> $   IF (XFILE .EQS. "") THEN GOTO START $ > Alan> $   DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'XFILE > Alan> $   GOTO START >dL >They way I read the spec, the two DELETEX's need to be together down at theK >bottom.  This deletes all .c files, not only those that have a matching .xe >e  K Now that you call my attention to it, we might both be wrong.  The originalg; spec is ambiguous enough to be incoherent, but if we accept-G Michael Zarlenga's spec, he doesn't say anything about deleting the .x wK files.  So we might need to move the DELETEX/NOCONFIRM 'CFILE down to wherew, the one for 'XFILE is and get rid of 'XFILE.   -- Alan-  O ===============================================================================c0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210hO ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:37:33 GMTr9 From: "David Thompson" <david.thompson1@worldnet.att.net>V: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECI Message-ID: <xGQ_7.346350$W8.12957707@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>e  * Peter da Silva <peter@taronga.com> wrote : ...hH > The whole programming model the shell uses is gluing together externalI > programs. It's a dataflow engine, not a traditional procedural languageh > like DCL.n >t9 Shells have (also) included control-flow constructs since = nearly the "beginning of time".  What they classically didn'ti< include is primitive data and file etc. operations, although3 bash now has 'test' and effectively 'expr' builtin.h  = > You might as well complain that Lisp doesn't have a "goto".  >n& Um, Common LISP _does_ have goto.  <G>   --* - David.Thompson 1 now at worldnet.att.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:59:41 -0700 + From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca> : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC, Message-ID: <3C3B6BCD.3B96AD13@jetnet.ab.ca>   Mark Crispin wrote:o > - > On 8 Jan 2002 rivie@cougar.no.domain wrote:cO > > The difficulty with Unix isn't so much using '-' as the switch character asn= > > it is accepting just about bloody anything in a filename.a > * > Why do you think that this is a problem? > K > You are describing an attribute of any decent filesystem.  It was a majoraL > deficiency in the TOPS-10 and ITS filesystems that they were restricted to  > the characters in 6-bit ASCII. >  > -- Mark -- > ! > http://staff.washington.edu/mrceH > Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.  C I think file names should be a..zA..Z0..9_  Why else would you need.D more? As for white space and file name length I think this is a file name not essay.Y   -- d% Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * + www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.htmlg   ------------------------------   Date: 9 Jan 2002 00:16 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)h: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC, Message-ID: <9JAN200200163940@gerg.tamu.edu>  / Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> writes...e+ }On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Bill Gunshannon wrote:r$ }> On 8 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:D }> >    VMS never let us do silly things like make a *.C, even ODS-5C }> >    won't.  I'm still hoping COE won't, but I recall POSIX did.eD }> I would guess, based on what I know of COE at this point, that it* }> will require it to be a valid filename. } D }VMS won't let you make a file called "*.C" under any circumstances? } / }Proof positive that VMS is a piece of garbage.  }  }-- Mark --   7 Your favorite OS will let you make a file called "*.C"?_  - Proof positive that it is a piece of garbage.s  - Stop crossposting crap to comp.os.vms, troll.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:57:41 GMTu From: robert@bonomi.invalidn: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC8 Message-ID: <FRR_7.819$Kf.15194@ord-read.news.verio.net>  M In article <slrna3msvs.1dl.rivie@cougar.no.domain>,  <ivie@cc.usu.edu> wrote:I >robert@bonomi.invalid wrote:pP >> And, that there is *NO*WAY* -- from inspection of the command-line only -- toQ >> determine which interpretation applies, to which instance.  Specific knowledge0* >> of the particular context is required.  >> uQ >> The semantics of the wildcard construct depend utterly on the context in whicho >> it is employed. >iH >Unix isn't really any better. There is no way -- from inspection of theF >command-line only -- to determine whether or not something is even a G >filename. If there were, rm wouldn't get confused when you try to handc! >it filenames beginning with '-'.n  H From inspection of the command-line only, one *can* determine _how_ the L wildcard expansion, presuming it is enabled, that is, will be done.  '*.foo'M _always_ expands to an -ordered-list- of pre-existant filenames matching the  J pattern.  Regardless of positon on the line, regardless of the command or  context.  H Admittdly, _many_ Unix commands can get 'confused' when passed filenamesE that 'look like' other optional parameters that would preceede actual E filenames on the command-line.    probably the worst "abuse" of that rK characteristic is a directory containing logfiles -- named "log_yymmdd.hh".mA somebody added two zero-length files, 'data.archive', and  '-uf'.   They then archived with "tar *".  K Unix does have its fair share of quirks and inconsistencies.  I would neveroH dispute that.  One only has to look at 'cat', 'tar', 'ar', and 'dd', to  be convinced of that fact.  J All of which is *irrelevant* to the point under discussion,  which was the* claim that DCL had *no* 'inconcistencies'.   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 06:57:33 GMT3 From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US>e: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC. Message-ID: <ug05gj9k2.fsf@spacy.Boston.MA.US>  B >>>>> On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:32:31 GMT, robert  ("robert") writes:U  robert> Christopher, your statement of "ignorant talk about the imagined problems.."sU  robert> demonstrates *your* arrogance, ignorance, and lack of breadth of experience.   = I didn't say it, but apparently you presumed that when I saideA "ignorant", I was referring to you.  I will defer to you on that.nB On the subject of myself, you have no idea what my experience is, A and I think you're a fool, and I suppose hiding behind pseudonymst" makes you a cowardly one, at that.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 15:28:51 -0800r0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>: Subject: How to create the Flight object in DECnet Phase V, Message-ID: <3C3B1033.3AFF8B70@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Bob Koehler wrote: >  [ text deleted ]  B >    That's what the TV set is for.  When I want to have fun I tryC >    building StarOffice on my Alpha or getting flight simulator tot >    run via Phase V.e  A The following NCL commands will create the flight object for you:r  4 CREATE NODE 0 SESSION CONTROL APPLICATION FLT$SERVER  = SET NODE 0 SESSION CONTROL APPLICATION FLT$SERVER ADDRESSES =i {NAME=FLT$SERVER} -  ,CLIENT  = - ,INCOMING ALIAS = TRUE - ,INCOMING PROXY = FALSE -  ,OUTGOING ALIAS = FALSE -l ,OUTGOING PROXY = TRUE - ,NODE SYNONYM = TRUE - ,USER NAME = "FLT$SERVER" - ) ,IMAGE NAME = "SYS$SYSTEM:FLT$SERVER.COM"y   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:30:30 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o> Subject: Re: How to create the Flight object in DECnet Phase V, Message-ID: <3C3BAB2F.56BB97A9@videotron.ca>   Mark Berryman wrote:C > The following NCL commands will create the flight object for you:i > 6 > CREATE NODE 0 SESSION CONTROL APPLICATION FLT$SERVER > > > SET NODE 0 SESSION CONTROL APPLICATION FLT$SERVER ADDRESSES   E Does the NCP "emulator" in the decnet-5 allow one to create objects ?o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:59:34 +0100  From: "XL" <itsafish@freeler.nl>6 Subject: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt7 Message-ID: <a1fj76$oic$1@newswriterENV1.svr.pol.co.uk>e  	 Hi there,0  J I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setA up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like, nodename>>> H I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if not, I haven't got any clue. How do I do this?t     thanks,i     Axel   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:03:56 -0800# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>i: Subject: RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEBCDOAA.tom@kednos.com>l  # I put the following in my login.come6 $ set prompt="''f$edit(f$getsyi("scsnode"),"trim")'> "   > -----Original Message-----' > From: XL [mailto:itsafish@freeler.nl] * > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.8 > Subject: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt >0 >  > Hi there,e >@L > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setC > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Likea
 > nodename>>>sJ > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if > not, I haven't got any clue. > How do I do this?t >  >m	 > thanks,n >- >o > Axel >w >h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:10:19 -0600o4 From: Arlen Williams <arlen.williams@remove.eds.com>: Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt. Message-ID: <3C3AFDCA.5F92D126@remove.eds.com>  	 XL wrote:  >  > Hi there,  > L > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setC > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like-
 > nodename>>>-J > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if > not, I haven't got any clue. > How do I do this?n > 	 > thanks,g >  > Axel   $ help set prompta   SETo     PROMPT  G        Replaces the default DCL prompt ($  ) with the specified string.a  
        Format:            SET PROMPT[=string]        %     Additional information available:        Parameter  Qualifier     /CARRIAGE_CONTROLn     Exampler    And to get the node name string.  ! nodename = F$GetSyi( "NODENAME" )    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:40:55 -0400:* From: Ian Mayfield <noreplies@noreply.com>: Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt( Message-ID: <3C3B5957.90800@noreply.com>  & --------------0207070406020100040301059 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=floweds Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Hello Axel,   H I am the VMS system admin. here at Saint Mary's University and a common  simple way to get thetI node name as the prompt for an interactive login is to add the following 0 to either your login.com oro1 on a system wide basis to sys$manager:sylogin.comv  F $  if  f$mode() .eqs. "INTERACTIVE"  then "''f$getsyi("nodename")'>>>"  H It is important to use double quotes, uppercase and single quotes where  I have indicated.  You canI get help on the use of double and single quotes and lexical functions at E Compaq's OpenVMS documentation site:.    OpenVMS version 7.3 User Manual G <http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6489/6489pro_contents.html>r  I F$mode and f$getsyi are called lexical functions in vms and you can also   find them in the dcl help by doing $ help lexicals.   IanP    	 XL wrote:E  
 >Hi there, >,K >I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't set B >up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like >nodename>>>I >I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if  >not, I haven't got any clue.$ >How do I do this? >  >. >thanks, >v >U >Axel  >  >     & --------------020707040602010004030105) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitl   <html> <head> </head>- <body> Hello Axel,<br>u <br>N I am the VMS system admin. here at Saint Mary's University and a common simple way to get the<br>H node name as the prompt for an interactive login is to add the following  to either your login.com or <br>5 on a system wide basis to sys$manager:sylogin.com<br>  <br>b $ &nbsp;if &nbsp;f$mode() .eqs. "INTERACTIVE"&nbsp; then "''f$getsyi("nodename")'&gt;&gt;&gt;"<br> <br>I It is important to use double quotes, uppercase and single quotes where Iu! have indicated. &nbsp;You can<br> H get help on the use of double and single quotes and lexical functions at Compaq's OpenVMS<br> documentation site:<br>c <br>P <a href="http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/6489/6489pro_contents.html"># OpenVMS version 7.3 User Manual</a>o <br> <br>H F$mode and f$getsyi are called lexical functions in vms and you can also  find them in the dcl help by<br> doing $ help lexicals.<br> <br> Ian<br>c <br> <br>
 XL wrote:<br>RM <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:a1fj76$oic$1@newswriterENV1.svr.pol.co.uk">t}  <pre wrap="">Hi there,<br><br>I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't set<br>up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like<br>nodename&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if<br>not, I haven't got any clue.<br>How do I do this?<br><br><br>thanks,<br><br><br>Axel<br><br><br></pre>    </blockquote>c   <br>	   </body> 	   </html>n  ( --------------020707040602010004030105--   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:36:34 -0700a+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>h: Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt' Message-ID: <3C3B5852.6090909@mmaz.com>i  	 XL wrote:f  
 >Hi there, >nK >I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setAB >up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like >nodename>>>I >I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And ifa >not, I haven't got any clue.y >How do I do this? >e V4100$ sh log sys$node,    "SYS$NODE" = "V4100::" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)   >e >s >o >thanks, >  >" >Axeln >e >  >    -- o  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028>   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:05:23 GMTF1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> : Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt2 Message-ID: <3C3B5E8E.AB0E4715@clarityconnect.com>  D It would depend on what you mean by nodename as to how to accomplishE this.  A VMS node may have many names (DECNET node name, cluster nodeUF name, IP node name, LAT node name, etc.)  The basic solution is to useH SET PROMPT="somestring" where somestring is what you want your prompt toD be.  How to get programmatically set the string will depend on which. node name a system could have you wish to use.  	 XL wrote:  >  > Hi there,< > L > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setC > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like-
 > nodename>>><J > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if > not, I haven't got any clue. > How do I do this?m > 	 > thanks,  >  > Axel   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:26:08 +0100e, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>: Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt& Message-ID: <3C3B63F1.C66043E6@gmx.ch>  	 XL wrote:T >  > Hi there,  > L > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setC > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like 
 > nodename>>>gJ > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if > not, I haven't got any clue. > How do I do this?   = A standard answer (in the sys$manager:sylogin.com procedure):   & $ prompt = f$trnlnm("sys$node") - "::" $ set prompt = "''prompt'> " MYNODE>   ) The genuine izitmeyourelookingfor prompt:S  : $ set prompt = "(_@_)<CR><LF> O o<CR><LF>  !<CR><LF> \_/ " (_@_)   O o   !A  \_/    Q where <CR> is the included ascii value of carriage return and <LF> the line feed..: Enjoy (and thanks for bringing me back to 15 years ago :-)   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2002 13:27:10 -0800g( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201081327.56ea2d9a@posting.google.com>w  _ "XL" <itsafish@freeler.nl> wrote in message news:<a1fj76$oic$1@newswriterENV1.svr.pol.co.uk>...  > Hi there,  > L > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setC > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Likei
 > nodename>>>lJ > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if > not, I haven't got any clue. > How do I do this?0 >  > 	 > thanks,= >  >  > Axel   $ SET PROMPT = ?  ' where ? is what ever you want it to be!-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:12:20 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>: Subject: RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt- Message-ID: <0033000047167765000002L052*@MHS>c  B =0AI would strongly discourage the use of a triple chevron as part5 of one's prompt to avoid confusion with console mode.s  > Not to mention that this will make certain monitoring packages< do really ugly things that will cause you to get awakened at# times when you don't want to do so.w   Now, to answer your question-e   Add this to your LOGIN.COM:a  * $ SET PROMPT=3D"''f$getsyi("NODENAME")'$ "   exactly as it appears above.   Your prompt will look like  0 NODENAME$ and will have a space following the $.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 3:03 PMtB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET6 Subject: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt    	 Hi there,s  H I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't = set.A up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like. nodename>>>cH I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And i= fr not, I haven't got any clue. How do I do this?i     thanks,a     Axel=    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2002 13:35:36 -0800 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski): Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201081335.3f7b7919@posting.google.com>   _ "XL" <itsafish@freeler.nl> wrote in message news:<a1fj76$oic$1@newswriterENV1.svr.pol.co.uk>...r > Hi there,o > L > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setC > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Like 
 > nodename>>>tJ > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if > not, I haven't got any clue. > How do I do this?- >  > 	 > thanks,a >  >  > Axel   for what you want do  . $ SET PROMPT = 'F$GETJPI("","NODENAME")" >>> "  F put this in your login.com or some command routine and you are set ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:58:14 -0000B/ From: Michael Zarlenga <zarlenga@conan.ids.net>h: Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt/ Message-ID: <u3mqrmbvhmis03@corp.supernews.com>o  + WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:wA : I would strongly discourage the use of a triple chevron as partw7 : of one's prompt to avoid confusion with console mode.t  @ : Not to mention that this will make certain monitoring packages> : do really ugly things that will cause you to get awakened at% : times when you don't want to do so.   ? Can you expound on the paragraph above?  Why would any s/w care  about the user's prompt?   -- . -- Mike Zarlenga   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:13:06 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>: Subject: RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt- Message-ID: <0033000047183465000002L052*@MHS>e  / =0AIt isn't uncommon to set the scan profile inm- Polycenter Console Manager to look for triplei. chevron as an indicator that a system has gone into console mode.  1 One usually likes to know if one of one's systemst/ is down- especially in the middle of the night.    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETd' Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 5:00 PMeB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET: Subject: RE: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt    + WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote:eA : I would strongly discourage the use of a triple chevron as partr7 : of one's prompt to avoid confusion with console mode.s  @ : Not to mention that this will make certain monitoring packages> : do really ugly things that will cause you to get awakened at% : times when you don't want to do so.e  ? Can you expound on the paragraph above?  Why would any s/w cared about the user's prompt?   -- -- Mike Zarlenga=a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:07:33 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>a: Subject: Re: how to display the nodename in the dcl prompt2 Message-ID: <3C3BB3F5.332A6D0A@firstdbasource.com>   Chris Doran wrote: > a > "XL" <itsafish@freeler.nl> wrote in message news:<a1fj76$oic$1@newswriterENV1.svr.pol.co.uk>...v
 > > Hi there,  > >yN > > I am managing some vms systems of which the older ones which I haven't setE > > up display the nodename in the commandline after logging in. Likea > > nodename>>>aL > > I guess this is any kind of logical I have to set. But which one. And if  > > not, I haven't got any clue. > > How do I do this?h > . > $ SET PROMPT="''F$GETSYI(""NODENAME"")'>>> "G > somewhere in SYLOGIN.COM (if you want it for everyone). Personally, IcH > prefer not to waste space on my command lines and just use a different( > single-character prompt for each node. >  > ChrisA  ( Then you would really hate my procedure: $!!   SD.COM$ $!!   set default command procedure  $!!   sd :== @dev:[dir]sd.coma6 $!!   Syntax:   sd [dir]  or   sd .dir or sd dev:[dir]3 $!!        note: "sd .dir" does not have "[" or "]" 
 $set noverify   $  IF "''P1'" .EQS. "" THEN EXIT $  POS1 = F$LOCATE("[","''P1'")n $  POS2 = F$LOCATE(".","''P1'")I $  POS3 = F$LOCATE("]","''P1'")t $  LEN = F$LENGTH("''P1'")* $  IF POS1 .EQS. POS2 THEN GOTO CONDITION2- $  IF POS3 .EQS. LEN - 1 THEN GOTO CONDITION2p $  SET DEF ['P1] $  GOTO EXIT_COMMAND_FILE. $! $CONDITION2: $  SET DEF 'P1 $! $EXIT_COMMAND_FILE:2 $  @DEV:[DIR]SET_PROMPTa $exity! ---------------------------------u $!! set_prompt.com- $x = f$getsyi("nodename")!! + "_" + "''p1'> "D4 $y = f$edit(f$getjpi("","USERNAME"),"TRIM,COMPRESS")# $if f$length(f$directory()) .le. 8 ' $then  $  z = f$directory() $elset $z =J f$extract(f$length(f$directory())-8,f$length(f$directory()),f$directory()) $endif $set prompt="''x'>''y'>''z'$ "  H The reason that SD.COM uses explicit dev:[dir] is for use with a priv'edE tool call SET_USER.  On the Alpha this tool even changes the logicalsAG for SYS$LOGIN etc...  which is also the reason for the inclusion of theI' username in the prompt.  So I know what + node>username>last-8-chars-of-dir> I am on.N example prompt:  ALPHA1>MAUSTIN>MAUSTIN]$ E -- E   Regards,  = Michael Austin  -- Currently available for contract... Need a- Consultant?-7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comM President/Sr. DBA Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:09:48 +00007< From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@eatspam.baesystems.com>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsA6 Message-ID: <3C3B520C.95031E48@eatspam.baesystems.com>   John McLean wrote: >  [snip] > I > I know, there's a huge inconsistency between this and their attitude to H > the PC market where we see quarter after quarter of big losses and all9 > they appear to be doing is rearranging the deck-chairs.j  7 Are they looking at profits? Or just sales?  Production-7 departments, for instance, normally just look at sales.e --  7 _______________________________________________________w Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:24:34 +0000e< From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@eatspam.baesystems.com>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsI6 Message-ID: <3C3B5582.AB647F6D@eatspam.baesystems.com>   JF Mezei wrote:e [snip] >  > P > Thirdly, Compaq would still remain a core wintel business and would focus evenN > more on wintel servers and wintel office desktops than before and would wantK > to maximize their volumes so as to retain its status of a big wintel gearf8 > purchasor to keep its status with intel and microsoft. >   3 Is there a market for servers without keyboards ands screens?  6 You could configure the machine up using a laptop, set2 the machine running and take the laptop away.  Big0 companies may have lots of these servers running discs, printers and email.  / Which operating system? VMS, MSDOS, or embedded * Windows CE?  Windows itself would crash in seconds. --  7 _______________________________________________________w Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:31:23 GMTn  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds + Message-ID: <3C3BB941.CC49DF47@prodigy.net>r   Andrew Swallow wrote:R >  > JF Mezei wrote:o > [snip] > >c > >mR > > Thirdly, Compaq would still remain a core wintel business and would focus evenP > > more on wintel servers and wintel office desktops than before and would wantM > > to maximize their volumes so as to retain its status of a big wintel geare: > > purchasor to keep its status with intel and microsoft. > >i > 5 > Is there a market for servers without keyboards andd
 > screens?  I I hope that's a rhetorical question.  Of course there is such a market.  RK Sun sells tons of such machines, and I would have thought Compaq does, too.r   > 8 > You could configure the machine up using a laptop, set4 > the machine running and take the laptop away.  Big2 > companies may have lots of these servers running > discs, printers and email. > 1 > Which operating system? VMS, MSDOS, or embedded-, > Windows CE?  Windows itself would crash in
 > seconds. > --9 > _______________________________________________________o > Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:45:31 -05006- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e& Subject: Re: Odd LNM$TEMPORARY_MAILBOX, Message-ID: <3C3BAEB3.D1D27D02@videotron.ca>   Jim Becker wrote:h > (LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY) > 1 >   "LNM$TEMPORARY_MAILBOX" [user] = "LNM$SYSTEM"s0 >   "LNM$TEMPORARY_MAILBOX" [kernel] = "LNM$JOB" > ? > Non-privileged users don't have write access to LNM$SYSTEM or F > LNM$SYSTEM_DIRECTORY (and rightly so!), so this was disrupting their  > ability to spawn subprocesses.  J Sounds like a privileged application is creating its LNM$TEMPORARY_MAILBOXA logical in the system directory instead of the process directory.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:29:15 GMT09 From: Mark Iline - Info-VAX account <ivax@meng.ucl.ac.uk>m- Subject: OpenVMS Disk Services for Windows NT$1 Message-ID: <00A07C03.38C37555.41@meng.ucl.ac.uk>m  M I've just been looking at the SPD for 'OpenVMS Disk Services for Windows NT' PI ( http://www.compaq.com/info/SP6080/SP6080PF.PDF ), and it's for version h1 1.1 that only refers to NT 4 & OpenVMS 7.1 & 6.2.h  ! Has this product got any future ?o  5 Has anyone tried it with versions of VMS beyond 7.1 ?f     Mark    ! Mark Iline	system@meng.ucl._ac.ukn- Dept Mech Eng, University College, London. UK?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:34:21 +01001, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>= Subject: Re: OpenVMS on PWS-a (was: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3?)/& Message-ID: <3C3B49BE.120321BC@gmx.ch>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:i >  > :tJ > :Are you saying that I can install an INTEL WNT OS on an Alpha system??? > I >   Um, no.  I'm saying that an -a series box is and was intended for uselH >   only with Microsoft Windows NT.  Not with OpenVMS.  The PWS-a series; >   box was sold with and specifically targeted Windows NT.n  O Hoff, in the (updated) FAQ, there is a link to the COMPAQ sheet of supported HWt? per OS: http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/supportchart.htmlo For the PWS 600a I see OpenVMS.fG And in http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/workstations/retired/a600.html J I also see as supported OS: Digital UNIX, OpenVMS, Windows NT Workstation.  . So, what is the difference between -a and -au?   Thanks,r   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:09:06 -0600 C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>c= Subject: Re: OpenVMS on PWS-a (was: Re: Alpha 21164 and 7.3?)t= Message-ID: <3C3BD072.3090201@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>u   Hoff Hoffman wrote:    > In article <3C3B82A7.30303@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>, "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> writes:a) > :I've recently acquired a 500au with NTtC > :on it that has an IDE CD-ROM, Intel PCI bridge, and Adaptec SCSI.K > :controller. I'm hoping that all I need is a SCSI CD-ROM and a compatiblesJ > :SCSI controller in order to boot VMS, but I won't know for sure until I
 > :try it. >  > J >   The Intel SIO PCI bridge will keep you from booting IDE disks directly >   (see the FAQ), :    F Thanks, I was reminded of that by this thread.  I think there is also @ something in the 7.3 installation/upgrade docs that covers this.  8 >   but I'd tend to expect the -au to work -- the other L >   common "gotcha" here involves the particular I/O options purchased with N >   (or installed in) the box, and most commonly with the particular graphics  >   controller installed.  l    F It has the Elsa Gloria Synergy 8 (aka 4D10T, I believe) so that shouldC be fine and I'll be using OpenVMS v7.3 so won't have to install the  driver separately.  H This card did give me a bit of a panic when I first switched the console0 to SRM and the firmware refused to start saying:  9 Illegal device detected on primary bus in physical slot 46C Power down the system and remove the unsupported device from slot 42  H I stuck an S3 Trio64 in its place and the firmware liked that just fine.H I was incredulous that the Elsa, a card known to be supported by OpenVMSE and even listed as a supported option for this particular machine wasaC considered to be an illegal alien by the latest SRM firmware. I wasC@ looking for documentation of the pci_device_override environment8 variable when I stumbled across statements like this one  H http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=u25b79e4nh0407%40news.supernews.com  H essentially saying that certain cards only work in the 32-bit slots, notF in the 64-bit slots. That proved to be the case here: as soon as I putA the Elsa in one of the 32-bit slots, the SRM stopped complaining.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:31:10 -0500<. From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com>) Subject: Re: reading a VMS disk on Linux?n. Message-ID: <3C3B813E.44419DBC@cablespeed.com>  E I have a native kernel version of the ODS-2 file system for FreeBSD. rH Simply having the file system, though, won't buy you much unless you can5 handle the embedded RMS meta-data in the data stream.:    Contact me if you're interested.  	 Good luck-   Thomas OToole wrote: > . > Carl Lydick's ODS-2 reader is what you want. >  > -Tom O'toole >  > John Malmberg wrote: > > $ > > Yehavi Bourvine (58-4279) wrote: > >sS > > >   I have a VMS disk (written under VMS-7.2) and want to connect it to a LinuxnT > > > system and read it there. Is there any driver available for Linux to read such > > > disks? > >iJ > > If it was from a VAX, then it is likely using an ODS-2 filesystem.  If< > > it was from an ALPHA, it could be either ODS-2 or ODS-5. > >yK > > There have been reports of an ODS-2 read only file system available for.J > > non-OpenVMS platforms.  I have no idea on how well it works or what itL > > would do if it encountered an ODS-5 file system.  You can use one of the" > > search engines to look for it. > >>E > > A specification document for ODS-2 is on the OpenVMS Freeware 5.0c; > > CD-ROM.  It can be downloaded from the freeware link ata" > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com. > >sF > > It may be best to mount the disk on a real OpenVMS system and then6 > > transfer the files through a more portable method. > >c	 > > -Johnt" > > Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq > > Personal Opinion Only. > >8 > >5   -- @ --n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:18:23 -0000o From: jim@4dv.net (Jim Reiss)uD Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products/ Message-ID: <u3ms1fnnqnio10@corp.supernews.com>e  , In article <3C3AF343.A0DD4D19@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:o >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:O >> UNFORTUNATELY Compaq's stock seems to be on the rebound? What is UNFORTUNATE H >> about this? Does an increase in stock value adversely affect your CPQ: >> portfolio, which presumably is significant in quantity.M >Increase in stock translates into added confidence in Compaq's decisions andjO >management. The only way to throw out capellas and winkler is for the stock to7 >drop big time.SK You never know.  Qwest's CEO has presided over a huge drop in the stock andoI made a number of enemies on Wall Street of people who (it turned out) hadhM valid assertions that Qwest's revenue forecasts were vapor...calling them all A sorts of names.  The company rewarded this ineffective CEO with a,* multi-year contract extension and a raise.  K And in these days of blame all bad news on terrorism, there's no sure thingpG no matter what happens to the stock.  The collapse of the merger may bep4 more of a threat to the tenure of senior management.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:08:35 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eD Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products, Message-ID: <3C3B7BEB.68A752B3@videotron.ca>   Bob Koehler wrote:F >    OK, so the first iMac looked like an ADM-3 from the 70's, and theF >    new one looks like a desk lamp from the 60's.  If Apple continuesJ >    the retro thing, will the third iMac someday look like a toaster from >    the 50's?  L How about a keypunch machine ? One could already put the sound of a keypunch9 for each key you press on the keyboard to simulate it :-)@  M Heck, when you think about it, MIME encoding  has its roots in the keypunchedcJ cards that had the 80 character per line limit. So it would be possible to; keypunch a MPEG movie and send it by paper mail to someone.1   :-) :-)E   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:23:40 -0500o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>pD Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products, Message-ID: <3C3B7F73.5661D051@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > Yeah, lets join forces with the O/S platform that has ~3% of the desktop' > market and none of the server market.w  H Funny, APPLE has 5% of SALES market share, but it also has a much larger installed base.e  M VMS has 0% of those sales, so Apple is infinitely better than VMS, so who areu
 you to talk ?2  K Once you admit that microsoft is the enemy, you then side with the enemy ofh7 your enemy and together toy better the evil Microsoft.    J VMS has not gained anything by being so cosy to Windows. Windows custoemrs couldn't care less about VMS.o  L But if VMS were to cosy up to Apple and offer itself as the server of choiceI for Apple, it would then gain a very easy access to 5% of market, and yourJ should know that Apple customers are also very loyal customers. And do notH forget that by having a MAC-VMS combination, the sum would then start to^ attract many new customers and both apple and VMS would grow to attract new markets/customers.  L VMS has a chance to open a new niche that nobody has botherered to deal withM before, and to VMS, that 5% market share is HUGE compared to it being limitedc% to a few dozen health care companies.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:40:30 GMTy, From: liam@nessie.xinqu.net (Liam Greenwood)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:  The demio2 Message-ID: <slrna3mm98.kh6.liam@nessie.xinqu.net>  L On Tue, 08 Jan 02 09:48:04 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:3 >In article <slrna3k2jh.j93.liam@nessie.xinqu.net>,n1 >   liam@nessie.xinqu.net (Liam Greenwood) wrote:,; >>	It is difficult to discover.  If I have multiple buttonsiE >>then there is a chance they may do something, so I try them.  TherepA >>is no clue that if I hold a button down for some period of timehD >>something will happen.  Having said that however, there is nothingC >>intuitive about any mouse driven interface (as anyone who has hadsC >>to show someone how to drive a mouse from scratch will know), so iA >>context sensitive menus are just another overload of the mouse a@ >>button to teach the user. (click, double-click, click-select, A >>drag-select, drag-n-drop, menu-select, and context-menus - all , >>on one simple button)0 > A >[stunned emoticon here]  The reason this is the User Device Fromw: >Hell is due to the fact I didn't have formal training????  = 	No, the reason it is the User Device form Heck is due to theX$ fact you *NEED* formal training. :-)   Cheers, Liam >c >/BAHw >e( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:42:37 GMTh, From: liam@nessie.xinqu.net (Liam Greenwood)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demisi2 Message-ID: <slrna3mmd8.kh6.liam@nessie.xinqu.net>  P On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:10:11 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:! >On Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:52:21 GMTG. >liam@nessie.xinqu.net (Liam Greenwood) wrote: >cG >LG> something will happen.  Having said that however, there is nothingtF >LG> intuitive about any mouse driven interface (as anyone who has hadF >LG> to show someone how to drive a mouse from scratch will know), so  >d= >	My kids caught on to it very quickly, perhaps learning what / >a mouse does is easier for a three year old :)d  6 	In my experience children are more likely to just try? something, especially something that move - and adults are moreS@ likely to worry about the consequences, try to fit the new thing* into an existing frame of reference etc.     Cheers, Liam   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 07:49:56 +0100, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demis-7 Message-ID: <20020109074956.29dd611f.steveo@eircom.net>d    On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:42:37 GMT- liam@nessie.xinqu.net (Liam Greenwood) wrote:   A LG> >	My kids caught on to it very quickly, perhaps learning whate3 LG> >a mouse does is easier for a three year old :)g LG> : LG> 	In my experience children are more likely to just tryC LG> something, especially something that move - and adults are moreiD LG> likely to worry about the consequences, try to fit the new thing. LG> into an existing frame of reference etc.    A 	Good point, fear is a major inhibitor in learning anything about " computers for a great many people.   -- -H C:>WIN                                          |     Directable MirrorsN The computer obeys and wins.                    |A Better Way To Focus The SunL You lose and Bill collects.                     |  licenses available - see:J                                                 |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:44:06 -06004 From: "Stuart S. Johnson" <stuartsjohnson@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: VAX in a VT-103?A/ Message-ID: <u3niknp1t4js2e@corp.supernews.com>m  H I had a VT103 w/dual TU58's, 11/03 CPU, DLV-11J serial, MSV11-DD memory,K dual 8" DSDD Shugart floppies (w/patched floppy driver for DSDD operation),aI and 3rd party 8" floppy disk controller back in 1981. As I recall, it wasrL loaded both slot and power-wise in this configuration. I seriously wonder ifL any of the uVax processors would have worked with the small power supply andG limited ventilation. Moving the thing would also be a nice way to get a-	 hernia :)-  C Oh, yeah - ever boot a system from a TU-58? There is an exercise inS	 patience!r  C The system worked well for me for several years, until I went on to D VAX-based consulting. I even used it for a while as an $8,000 "dumb"K terminal, running a small RT-11 program to echo keystrokes to a serial lineeL and then back to the crt. The system, a Heatkit wide carriage printer, and aI Hayes 300 baud modem were all I had. It was pretty high-tech at the time.u  ? Sigh, no personal VAX for me until 2001. Now I'm retired & intoo "retrocomputing"   :)n  ; "Rob L Lyons" <rob.lyons@resilientsys.com> wrote in message % news:a18u4o$9ou$1@bob.news.rcn.net...oG > > Anyone ever try putting a VAX in a VT-103 and boot something on it?t >l; > I've put an 11/53 in one but never tried a VAX processor.n= > The power supply was near max with a serial line, the PDP11,: > processor and an RQDX3 storage controller.   I think the9 > VAX processor load combined with the storage controller_5 > would have eventually cook the supply and the hefty-= > supplies in the VT103 were harder to find so we didn't try. 3 > LDP made some interesting products in those days.l >l >M   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:32:17 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>]# Subject: Re: VMS and VAX clusteringl& Message-ID: <3C3BAC7C.98F29E7@fsi.net>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >  > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote in message news:<3C3A6B0A.90205@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>... > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > >t > [snip]L > > > Actually, you've inspired me. I'm going to start planning now to writeM > > > "OpenVMS Clusters for Dummies" and see if I can sell it to the folks atr3 > > > IDG. (They don't have that one yet, do they?)e > >dK > > I like the idea, but the "for Dummies" series probably wouldn't be thathJ > > appealing to your potential audience (which might include me). SomeoneI > > who wants to know how clusters work because they are one of the great L > > computing inventions of the last few decades or someone who needs to setE > > up an OpenVMS cluster for the first time to get real work done is_L > > unlikely to be interested in the dummies series. It might, though, be anF > > appropriate sell for management types who want to know why OpenVMSL > > Clusters can keep the business from falling down when the building fallsF > > down, and as an appropriate complement to the NT integration book. >  > /SERIOUS_MODE=OFF  > ? > What to do when you've finished "Windows95 for Dummies"? ReadIE > "Windows95 for Advanced Dummies"! For clusters, maybe just skip the D > "VMSclusters for Dummies" and go straight to the advanced version. >  > /SERIOUS_MODE=ON   What about newbies?s   -- s David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:36:00 GMT:1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a# Subject: Re: VMS and VAX clusteringD' Message-ID: <3C3BAD5B.45ED9E97@fsi.net>    WILLIAM WEBB wrote:e > B > It astonishes me to this day that people actually purchase books> > that are titled in such a manner as to explicitly state that@ > the purchaser suffers from a surfeit of intellectual capacity.  : All things being relative, I believe it's less a matter ofH self-denigration than a matter of recognizing the "I know this, how comeH you don't?" attitudes that are so prevalent among WinKidz and other such types.    B That or a tacit (or perhaps metaphoric) reference to documentationH authored by those who assume that the reader knows what the author knows1 (so why bother writing a FM in the first place?).    -- B David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 02:42:42 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> # Subject: Re: VMS and VAX clusteringt' Message-ID: <3C3BAEEC.68CB2F6C@fsi.net>    David D Miller wrote:F >  > Gang:a > M > I sent the "OpenVMS Clustering for Dummies" suggestion on to Pam Chester atp8 > Digital press for comments.  Here's how she responded: > [slective snip].
 > Pam Chestera > Acquisitions Editori > Digital Press  > 225 Wildwood AvenueS > Woburn, MA  01801M > 781-904-2603 > pam.chester@bhusa.com   G Well, my purpose in targetting it "for Dummies" is because usually when-C folks try to explain clustering (as *WE* know it) they usually jump @ straight into VMS, SCS and the DLM without first considering the> underlying foundation: MSCP, hierarchical storage controllers,E interconnects, console firmware, etc. Without all that, that which weeH call "clustering" doesn't get much beyond LAVc (outside of a Galaxy box,	 that is).<  G The approach is intended to be in keeping with my "get back down to theiF basics" philosophy: master the fundamentals first, then study what can! be built on any given foundation.I   -- n David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsd http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:15:57 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publics5 Message-ID: <3C3B456D.A3E2CD5C@swissonline.delete.ch>    WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  >  > INT. DATA CENTER-u > . >     Man standing in front of row of servers. >  >                        MAN= >            "My systems have been up for 276 days straight."y >  > INT. OFFICE- > 1 >     People standing in front of midsize system.e >  >                        PEOPLEb6 >             "Our fileservers are immune to viruses." >   > INT. SMALL OFFICE SERVER ROOM- > H >     Woman sitting in front of table with several desktop-sized systems >     with monitors. >  >                        WOMAN= >             "My webservers have been up for eighteen monthss7 >              and they haven't been hacked even once."d >  > VOICEOVER2 > 8 >             "What do these people know that you don't?; >             "They're running OpenVMS systems from Compaq.  > = >              OpenVMS.   Stability...Reliability...Security.o > 7 >              If you're tired of frequent downtime andl7 >              missing data, then it's time you thoughte* >              about closing the windows." > # > CROSSFADE TO COMPAQ OPENVMS LOGO.m     I like it !e  H The only problem is the reference to Windows.  You'd have a much greaterG chance of getting Compaq approval if it didn't obviously malign anothernC product.  Can you say something similar by implication ?  (eg. "forIB systems you can trust", "when your company must have a reliable IT platform"....)     cheers   John McLeana   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:25:26 -0500* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>1 Subject: RE: VMS Marketing For the General Publice- Message-ID: <0033000047161461000002L012*@MHS>   > =0AFor a second there I misread "reliable IT" as "reliable NT"    Aw, c'mon.  It's a *subtle* dig.   WWWebbee   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs' Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:18 PM:B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET1 Subject: RE: VMS Marketing For the General PublicB     WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  >s > INT. DATA CENTER-S >s. >     Man standing in front of row of servers. >  >                        MAN= >            "My systems have been up for 276 days straight."h >  > INT. OFFICE- > 1 >     People standing in front of midsize system.O >2 >                        PEOPLE 6 >             "Our fileservers are immune to viruses." >r  > INT. SMALL OFFICE SERVER ROOM- >oH >     Woman sitting in front of table with several desktop-sized system= s  >     with monitors. >  >                        WOMAN= >             "My webservers have been up for eighteen monthsg7 >              and they haven't been hacked even once."f >O > VOICEOVERe >e8 >             "What do these people know that you don't?; >             "They're running OpenVMS systems from Compaq.  > = >              OpenVMS.   Stability...Reliability...Security.n >h7 >              If you're tired of frequent downtime and.7 >              missing data, then it's time you thought * >              about closing the windows." >-# > CROSSFADE TO COMPAQ OPENVMS LOGO.      I like it !a  H The only problem is the reference to Windows.  You'd have a much greate= r H chance of getting Compaq approval if it didn't obviously malign another=  C product.  Can you say something similar by implication ?  (eg. "forFB systems you can trust", "when your company must have a reliable IT platform"....)     cheers   John McLean=   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2002 13:47:08 -0800i( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publicn< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201081347.b0db7a7@posting.google.com>  n John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message news:<3C3B456D.A3E2CD5C@swissonline.delete.ch>... > WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > >  > > INT. DATA CENTER-p > > 0 > >     Man standing in front of row of servers. > >  > >                        MAN? > >            "My systems have been up for 276 days straight."o > >  > > INT. OFFICE- > > 3 > >     People standing in front of midsize system.i > > ! > >                        PEOPLEc8 > >             "Our fileservers are immune to viruses." > > " > > INT. SMALL OFFICE SERVER ROOM- > > J > >     Woman sitting in front of table with several desktop-sized systems > >     with monitors. > >   > >                        WOMAN? > >             "My webservers have been up for eighteen monthsr9 > >              and they haven't been hacked even once."S > > 
 > > VOICEOVER  > > : > >             "What do these people know that you don't?= > >             "They're running OpenVMS systems from Compaq.l > > ? > >              OpenVMS.   Stability...Reliability...Security.e > > 9 > >              If you're tired of frequent downtime and 9 > >              missing data, then it's time you thoughtt, > >              about closing the windows." > > % > > CROSSFADE TO COMPAQ OPENVMS LOGO.o >  > 
 > I like it !  > J > The only problem is the reference to Windows.  You'd have a much greaterI > chance of getting Compaq approval if it didn't obviously malign anothereE > product.  Can you say something similar by implication ?  (eg. "foryD > systems you can trust", "when your company must have a reliable IT > platform"....) >  >  > cheers > 
 > John McLeanz  G good one ... I have a million of them too, problem is, no one at CompaqsF wants to make Bill or Intel mad at them ... they are the PC crowd, andG they don't understand or want to understand high end computing ... theylD think windows is high end ... wish someone without pc ties would buyG vms, then, your commercial would become reality ... until then, you arecD just wasting your time ... sad but true ... if only the shareholdersH knew what mismangement there is currently ... if only someone could makeB them understand that they hold the best technology ... I doubt it!   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:53:37 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public , Message-ID: <ATJ_7.8404$762.73563@rwcrnsc54>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 6 news:d7791aa1.0201081347.b0db7a7@posting.google.com...> > John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message1 news:<3C3B456D.A3E2CD5C@swissonline.delete.ch>...e > > WILLIAM WEBB wrote:n > > >o > > > INT. DATA CENTER-M > > > 2 > > >     Man standing in front of row of servers. > > >t  > > >                        MANA > > >            "My systems have been up for 276 days straight."i > > >c > > > INT. OFFICE- > > >c5 > > >     People standing in front of midsize system.- > > >-# > > >                        PEOPLE2: > > >             "Our fileservers are immune to viruses." > > >:$ > > > INT. SMALL OFFICE SERVER ROOM- > > >rL > > >     Woman sitting in front of table with several desktop-sized systems > > >     with monitors. > > >9" > > >                        WOMANA > > >             "My webservers have been up for eighteen months.; > > >              and they haven't been hacked even once."> > > >d > > > VOICEOVERv > > > < > > >             "What do these people know that you don't?? > > >             "They're running OpenVMS systems from Compaq.  > > >dA > > >              OpenVMS.   Stability...Reliability...Security.  > > >w; > > >              If you're tired of frequent downtime andt; > > >              missing data, then it's time you thoughte. > > >              about closing the windows." > > >t' > > > CROSSFADE TO COMPAQ OPENVMS LOGO.e > >e > >> > > I like it !h > >rL > > The only problem is the reference to Windows.  You'd have a much greaterK > > chance of getting Compaq approval if it didn't obviously malign anothernG > > product.  Can you say something similar by implication ?  (eg. "fortF > > systems you can trust", "when your company must have a reliable IT > > platform"....) > >h > >a
 > > cheers > >m > > John McLean  >hI > good one ... I have a million of them too, problem is, no one at Compaq-H > wants to make Bill or Intel mad at them ... they are the PC crowd, andI > they don't understand or want to understand high end computing ... theycF > think windows is high end ... wish someone without pc ties would buyI > vms, then, your commercial would become reality ... until then, you areeF > just wasting your time ... sad but true ... if only the shareholdersJ > knew what mismangement there is currently ... if only someone could makeD > them understand that they hold the best technology ... I doubt it!  G To fix the ad so it passes the OS Political Correctness Committee, justm8 change "closing the windows" to "closing the loopholes."   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:04:03 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publice' Message-ID: <3C3BB3CA.ABD4BCB1@fsi.net>n   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:e >    > INT. DATA CENTER-q > . >     Man standing in front of row of servers. >  >                        MAN= >            "My systems have been up for 276 days straight."0 >     INT. ANOTHER DATA CENTER-  S5      Another Man standing in front of row of servers.g  r                         MANtF             "My systems have been up for more than 400 days straight."  c   > INT. OFFICE- > 1 >     People standing in front of midsize system.  >  >                        PEOPLEa6 >             "Our fileservers are immune to viruses."  3 *WARNING* - Possible Truth in Advertising conflict.      > INT. SMALL OFFICE SERVER ROOM- > H >     Woman sitting in front of table with several desktop-sized systems >     with monitors. >  >                        WOMAN= >             "My webservers have been up for eighteen monthsc7 >              and they haven't been hacked even once."r >  > VOICEOVERu > 8 >             "What do these people know that you don't?   (More politically correct:) 6              "What do these people all have in common?  ; >             "They're running OpenVMS systems from Compaq.d  F I'd leave out the Compaq reference just yet. It's not a strong selling point at the moment.   > = >              OpenVMS.   Stability...Reliability...Security.- > 7 >              If you're tired of frequent downtime andr7 >              missing data, then it's time you thoughtX* >              about closing the windows." > # > CROSSFADE TO COMPAQ OPENVMS LOGO.u# CROSSFADE TO OPENVMS LOGO ON BLACK. 	 VOICEOVERm 		OpenVMS - Nothing stops it.p  0 		To find out how to solve your server problems,) 		contact OpenVMS today at 1-800-OpenVMS.k  C (Actually, that phone number is not currently available in the U.S.  Didn't try 888, 877 or 866.)  & FADE IN COMPAQ LOGO, CORNER OF SCREEN.5 		OpenVMS is a product of Compaq Computer Corporationt  
 FADE TO BLACKh  2 TRT: 15 to 30 seconds. (15 without music, 30 with)  H Hey - Terry (Shannon): Find me some talent. I'll rent some gear and comeH to your location(s) to shoot. We'll edit and take it to Gorham, MarcelloE and Co. (sounds like a law firm, doesn't it?). I'll see if I can finddH some financial backing. All we need from the Q is a signed VAR agreement< and permission to use their trade/service marks/names in ourH advertising. We'll form up a VAR and sell more VMS, CSWS, etc. than theyH can handle. When *WE* get big enough, we'll launch a hostile takeover of both the Q *AND* HP!   Hoddaya like *THEM* apples??!!  H ...and William (Webb): May I assume no objections to using your material as the basis of an ad campaign?    -- t David J. Dachtera0 dba DJE Systemsi http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:31:36 +0100n2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publica; Message-ID: <3c3bab88.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>e  + WILLIAM WEBB (WWEBB1@email.usps.gov) wrote:e ... # > CROSSFADE TO COMPAQ OPENVMS LOGO.   A This crossed my mind just yesterday: *Is* there an official logo?:I I still think the shark logo is nice, but haven't seen it for a long time: (except on the hobbyist site).   cu,3   Martin -- @F   OpenVMS:                | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer3    The operating system   | work: mv@pdv-systeme.dewF    God runs the           |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/:    earth simulation on.   | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:18:49 +0100u1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> , Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha5 Message-ID: <3C3B4619.D96581FA@swissonline.delete.ch>s   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >  ... N > Someone once described a bug report their company got.  It seemed that everyJ > night there was a glitch in Hong Kong with a data feed.  Turned out thatG > someone in the US was automatically rebooting their servers when they L > believed all the markets were closed and nobody was working...  Gotta love > Windows, and 24x7.   24 X 7 as applied to windows ?   What are those numbers ?    G Reboots per day ?  No of machines required ?  No of support staff ?  Noe of security patches ?l   ;-)n     John   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:14:53 -0000a- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)t, Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha7 Message-ID: <91909227Bwarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>s  + billtodd@metrocast.net (Bill Todd) wrote inD8 <XAw_7.391783$C8.28561848@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>:   H >But the question then becomes whether the fact that MS achieves similar0 >function by a different mechanism is important.   Agreed.n  E >The MS answer to host-based volume shadowing is host-mirrored drives-B >that are taken over by (failed over to - a matter of seconds if aE >journaling file system like NTFS is used) a second host if the first H >fails.  If you want disaster tolerance, you can have it (at least up toG >10 km or whatever normal FC allows these days) by separating the diskse >from each other.  n  L Clearly I need sum edukation here.  Are you saying a given MS host can have A disk drives located 10 km apart?  Any idea what sort of hardware a+ configuration would be required to do this?   8 > And there's no reason you can't run productive work onD >both servers (e.g., a symmetrical configuration where each normallyD >manages one set of disks and serves as back-up server for another). >bD >The up-side of this approach is that you can have either host *and*@ >either disk fail and still operate, unlike the case with VMS.    J This part I don't quite get - is the assumption here a 2-node VMS cluster G that will hang when one node departs?  The last fully redundant 2-node -F cluster I saw could lose one node (assuming it's not the one with the H quorum disk), any disk controller, and any shadow-set member, and still  keep on pumpin'.   > TheiD >down-side is that all access to the disk pair is funneled through aI >single host (which isn't so bad if they're really just disks but becomess9 >a problem if they're in fact high-performance arrays).  p  L Again, if you would, education:  How does a high-performance arry make this  more problematic?    > And establishingG >efficient 'N+1' configurations (where N > 1) is more complex than wheniI >using truly-shared devices (though no more complex than when using VMS's  >host-based volume shadowing). >tB >MS applies similar fail-over approaches to other resources (as doH >several Unixes).  They're not as elegant or powerful as true concurrentI >sharing, but there aren't really that many situations that *require* thee >extra elegance and power.    # Fair enough.  But there are *some*.a  # > And creating a robust application G >(cluster-aware such that it can survive node failures) is not trivial,,' >or transparent, in either environment.e   Agreed.n  A >If you can stomach the base differences between Windows and VMS,oH >clusterability is no longer the killer differentiator that it once was.   No ulcers yet!  K One differentiator we didn't touch on yet is single-system-image. For some LH highly-reliable configurations, knowing that both nodes booted the same L system image (patches & all) is valuable.  The Linux crowd is pursuing this ? feature, although I'm not sure that says anything profound <g>.g   ws   -- r   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  L ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do I  **   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:42:58 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>s, Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha> Message-ID: <CJJ_7.155608$pa1.46512929@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:lIF_7.406$5Y4.11329@news.cpqcorp.net... >iH > Someone once described a bug report their company got.  It seemed that everyOJ > night there was a glitch in Hong Kong with a data feed.  Turned out thatG > someone in the US was automatically rebooting their servers when they L > believed all the markets were closed and nobody was working...  Gotta love > Windows, and 24x7. >t  E That's not a Windows fault. It really more typical of United State of K America hubris .... if it doesn't trade in US dollars, on a US exchange, inmK accordance with SEC rules, and settle at DTC, then it can't possibly exist.v  J Seen it too many times to have it surprise me any more....from the largestH US-based banks and brokers who ought to know better...after all, they do, hire the best and the brightest, don't they?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:13:17 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>8, Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha, Message-ID: <3C3B7D05.E4665034@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:J > Then show me a full featured cluster, while you may be partially correctI > believing Wxx[yy] may in some parts be superior to UNIX, if you believee4 > the same is true of VMS, then you do not know VMS.  N In all fairness to the troll, (he was featured in the Harry Potter movie BTW),I clustering may be really cool, but it is rather useless if you don't haveu applications on that machine.e  N VMS is useless to someone who wants SAP for instance. And the gab between UnixH clustering and VMS clustering is narrowing (thanks in part to VMS having: donated much of its clustering IP to anyone who wants it).   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jan 2002 22:42:59 -0800 1 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) , Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0201082242.120748a6@posting.google.com>t  t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<XAw_7.391783$C8.28561848@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...K > The MS answer to host-based volume shadowing is host-mirrored drives that N > are taken over by (failed over to - a matter of seconds if a journaling fileJ > system like NTFS is used) a second host if the first fails.  If you wantN > disaster tolerance, you can have it (at least up to 10 km or whatever normal@ > FC allows these days) by separating the disks from each other. {...} L > The up-side of this approach is that you can have either host *and* either8 > disk fail and still operate, unlike the case with VMS.  E Seems to me a VMS cluster has exactly this same capability, given thenF same FC storage configuration (with an inter-site FC link), unless I'mF missing something.  With an inter-site FC link, VMS MSCP-serving isn'tE needed for access to the remote disks, so that removes the dependencyo! on a VMS node at the remote site. ? ----------------------------------------------------------------? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:w> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:14:17 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: wtb: cd-rom caddy' Message-ID: <3C3BB654.E6B4BDC9@fsi.net>E   Kyle Cassidy wrote:N >  > hey kids, J >   i can't find the cd-caddey for my rr-55 (is that what it is? somethingK > like that) and i need to install the new version of vms. anybody have onehH > for sale? little plastic thing, holds a cd.... you know what i mean...  D Have you tried CompUsa or a similar store? I still them from timt to time. Try eBay, also.i   -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE SystemsC http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:32:45 GMT   From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: wtb: cd-rom caddy+ Message-ID: <3C3BB994.E021A0E4@prodigy.net>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Kyle Cassidy wrote:e > >l
 > > hey kids, L > >   i can't find the cd-caddey for my rr-55 (is that what it is? somethingM > > like that) and i need to install the new version of vms. anybody have one J > > for sale? little plastic thing, holds a cd.... you know what i mean... > F > Have you tried CompUsa or a similar store? I still them from timt to > time. Try eBay, also.   2 Office Depot, Staples, etc. should also have them.   >  > -- > David J. Dachterac > dba DJE Systemsd > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:26:16 -0800a% From: Tom Crabtre <tccrab@sunset.net>a Subject: Re: wtb: cd-rom caddy* Message-ID: <3C3BC668.729E1FE0@sunset.net>   Kyle:I  L Depending on which kind of CD thingy you need, first I'd call Dave Turner atJ Island Computer Company,  http://www.islandco.com , failing that I'd checkB with Don Hyde at Hess Electronics in Tustin, CA (Los Angeles area)9 714-669-9838.  If he doesn't have it you're probably SOL.eD You should really update that old relic anyway, new ones aren't that
 expensive.   Tom C.   Kyle Cassidy wrote:l   > hey kids,eJ >   i can't find the cd-caddey for my rr-55 (is that what it is? somethingK > like that) and i need to install the new version of vms. anybody have one-H > for sale? little plastic thing, holds a cd.... you know what i mean... >y > kyle >" > --4 > kyle cassidy, mcse          |  /"\    ASCII RIBBON2 > www.netaxs.com/~cassidy     +  \ /      CAMPAIGN7 > Dod #760 / kb2rvy           |   X   AGAINST HTML MAILo4 >                             |  / \    AND POSTINGS   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.015 ************************