0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 11 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 20      Contents:A Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ... A Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ... A Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ... A Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ... A RE: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ... > Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities> Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities> Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities> Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities> Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities> Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities> Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities) Re: Accessing tapes in DLT4500 tape drive ) Re: Accessing tapes in DLT4500 tape drive # Re: Alignment failure of DLT drives  Re: Amazing, and a good laugh C Re: Any examples of setting up an FTP session from within an image? C Re: Any examples of setting up an FTP session from within an image? / Re: Can Exabyte 8200s and 8505s exchange media?  Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?  Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?  Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?  Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?  Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business? Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available 2 Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions6 RE: Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions6 Re: Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions& Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Action& Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Action& Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Action& Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Action& CSWS: Cancel or Expire Authentication? Re: csws_php and Multinet?( follow up on ATI Radeon 7500 for OpenVMS, Re: follow up on ATI Radeon 7500 for OpenVMS  Re: Former customers and mergers- FS: VAX/VMS  Internals and Data Struct.  book  FTP Success/Failure? Re: FTP Success/Failure?  Re: Getting DEC ADA 3.5A to work  Re: Getting DEC ADA 3.5A to work  Re: Getting DEC ADA 3.5A to work. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!. Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 RE: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC 5 Re: How to create the Flight object in DECnet Phase V 0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds0 Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds. Re: Huge EV7 Alpha Galaxy Cluster being built!& Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster& Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster& Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster& Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster& Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster& Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster( Re: OpenVMS Disk Services for Windows NT5 Re: OT: Sun To Drop/Delay Intel Support For Solaris 9 " question about TCPIP cluster alias Re: SCSI to IDE bridges ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products B Strange OpenVMS NFS behaviour when accessing an OpenVMS index fileP Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:   The demN Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demP Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The dem T Unix filesystems on VMS  Re: Unix filesystems on VMS  VMS ECOs Re: VMS ECOs Re: VMS ECOs Re: VMS ECOs Re: VMS ECOs( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public Re: VMS resources  Re: VMS resources  Re: VMSBackup to unix * VMSmail Foreign transport on another node.. Re: VMSmail Foreign transport on another node.# Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha # Re: what is future of VMS and alpha ( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?( Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?" Re: who else got the VMS brochure?" Re: who else got the VMS brochure? Re: Windows version of DCL?  Re: x25 AND set host xml and OpenVMS  Re: xml and OpenVMS  Re: xml and OpenVMS P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The     demise    ofP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of compa F Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The demP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise of compaq P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:40:21 GMT G From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> J Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...2 Message-ID: <9XB%7.545$TS6.456@www.newsranger.com>  ) On 10 Jan 2002 17:47:42 -0800, in article F <d7791aa1.0201101747.69ba9331@posting.google.com>, Bob Ceculski wrote: > D >It been almost 17 years now I have been on VMS without an OS crash!  G If you want experience with VMS system crashes, then learn how to write B your own VMS device driver. :-) Trust me, you _will_ get plenty of crash dump experience...  M Actually, the only time that I have had a VMS system crash _due to a DEC bug_ ) is when working with PPP/SLIP in UCX 4.x.    Simon.   --  @ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:51:20 GMT " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>J Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...2 Message-ID: <cKE%7.5412$E82.15930@typhoon.bart.nl>  ? Hmm, running DECnet phase V's X gui gave plenty of VMS crashes.  Definitely not pretty.L If you've never seen VMS crash then you've never had VMS 5.3 on your system.< Not that I'd rank VMS 3.4 and 3.6 as particularly stable....   Hans  J Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote in4 message news:9XB%7.545$TS6.456@www.newsranger.com...+ > On 10 Jan 2002 17:47:42 -0800, in article H > <d7791aa1.0201101747.69ba9331@posting.google.com>, Bob Ceculski wrote: > > F > >It been almost 17 years now I have been on VMS without an OS crash! > I > If you want experience with VMS system crashes, then learn how to write D > your own VMS device driver. :-) Trust me, you _will_ get plenty of > crash dump experience... > J > Actually, the only time that I have had a VMS system crash _due to a DEC bug_+ > is when working with PPP/SLIP in UCX 4.x.  >  > Simon. >  > --B > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:28:59 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>J Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...0 Message-ID: <3C3F200F.942520BF@blueyonder.co.uk>   Simon Clubley wrote: > + > On 10 Jan 2002 17:47:42 -0800, in article H > <d7791aa1.0201101747.69ba9331@posting.google.com>, Bob Ceculski wrote: > > F > >It been almost 17 years now I have been on VMS without an OS crash! > I > If you want experience with VMS system crashes, then learn how to write D > your own VMS device driver. :-) Trust me, you _will_ get plenty of > crash dump experience... > O > Actually, the only time that I have had a VMS system crash _due to a DEC bug_ + > is when working with PPP/SLIP in UCX 4.x.  >  > Simon.   F Hey, I once crashed an VAX 8700 with only NETMBX and TMBMBX. Was using  a third party driver though :-).   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:48:45 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> J Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...5 Message-ID: <3C3F257D.5810331A@swissonline.delete.ch>    Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > Simon Clubley wrote: > > - > > On 10 Jan 2002 17:47:42 -0800, in article J > > <d7791aa1.0201101747.69ba9331@posting.google.com>, Bob Ceculski wrote: > > > H > > >It been almost 17 years now I have been on VMS without an OS crash! > > K > > If you want experience with VMS system crashes, then learn how to write F > > your own VMS device driver. :-) Trust me, you _will_ get plenty of > > crash dump experience... > > Q > > Actually, the only time that I have had a VMS system crash _due to a DEC bug_ - > > is when working with PPP/SLIP in UCX 4.x.  > > 
 > > Simon. > H > Hey, I once crashed an VAX 8700 with only NETMBX and TMBMBX. Was using" > a third party driver though :-).    E I heard of a nice system crash in Melbourne, Australia one day.  They F were using a crane to get one of the 8000 series machines in through a window on the second floor.   E Apparently things were shaken but not stirred (too much) - just a few H parts needed.  The customer got a new machine but I think this one lived; a useful operational life, albeit with a few dented panels.      John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:16:02 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> J Subject: RE: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE7FE@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Tim,  D >>> Hey, I once crashed an VAX 8700 with only NETMBX and TMBMBX. Was( using a third party driver though :-).<<  H Hey, I remember a 85/87/8800 console fix had to be put in to remove someH command short forms as some operatiors would go to console mode with theF system up and running (ok and legal so far) and then type "H" for help .   + Guess what the "H" command was short for ..    :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----; From: Tim Llewellyn [mailto:tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk]  Sent: January 11, 2002 12:29 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com F Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ..         Simon Clubley wrote: >=20+ > On 10 Jan 2002 17:47:42 -0800, in article H > <d7791aa1.0201101747.69ba9331@posting.google.com>, Bob Ceculski wrote: > > F > >It been almost 17 years now I have been on VMS without an OS crash! >=20C > If you want experience with VMS system crashes, then learn how to  write D > your own VMS device driver. :-) Trust me, you _will_ get plenty of > crash dump experience... >=20F > Actually, the only time that I have had a VMS system crash _due to a DEC bug_+ > is when working with PPP/SLIP in UCX 4.x.  >=20 > Simon. =20 F Hey, I once crashed an VAX 8700 with only NETMBX and TMBMBX. Was using  a third party driver though :-).   --=20 ! Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk =20   E Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of=20 ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:48:34 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>G Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities ) Message-ID: <3C3EB4F2.343335C2@127.0.0.1>    Nomen Nescio wrote:  > L > I apologize if this is off-topic, but I have a quick question here for the > group. > S > Where is there a good place to look for VMS/OpenVMS job opportunities, preferably 2 > along the lines of programming versus sys mgmnt?  ; Not off topic at all. You don't state your location though.   B Go to http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ and check the "Monster" link.  . Hopefully you'll find something.... Good luck.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:54:56 GMT ( From: "Ken Farmer" <kfarmer@openvms.org>G Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities > Message-ID: <koA%7.19002$6L1.2088513@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>  ( http://www.OpenVMS.org has a Jobs Forum.   Ken    --   -- Kenneth Farmer http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.Tru64.org    2 "Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message2 news:1cb7424b7cae28b7fe2c9c006b523340@dizum.com...L > I apologize if this is off-topic, but I have a quick question here for the > group. > H > Where is there a good place to look for VMS/OpenVMS job opportunities,
 preferably2 > along the lines of programming versus sys mgmnt? > F > I keep checking DECUS, all the newsgroups, agencies, and the "resume farms"I > online. Is there another place I could look at? Is there an agency that  specializes I > in VMS pros? I've kind of been out of touch for a while, but am back on  the L > market. With over 15 years experience it is very frustrating to be sittingI > idle. I'd just like to get another year or two out of VMS before I move  onto > something else.  > 5 > Any pointers and tips would be greatly appreciated.  > 	 > Thanks,  > % > Long in tooth, short on opportunity  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:18:38 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> G Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities , Message-ID: <3C3ED813.544DD26D@videotron.ca>   Ken Farmer wrote:  > * > http://www.OpenVMS.org has a Jobs Forum.  J Would it be possible to get together with Compaq and decide on a job forumM that is unique, complete and global so that customers would need only look in  one place ?   G Right now, Compaq is pushing monster.com for USA-only jobs, and you are J pushing your own forum, and customers aren't told of either when then need employees with VMS skills.  J It would be nice if there were a single , complete, site for VMS jobs thatM Compaq would tell all of its customers about. If customers don't know to look M at that site, then they won't see how many starving VMS experts there are and  how easy it is to lure them.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:22:22 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) G Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities 3 Message-ID: <Yokc2619u6OF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <1cb7424b7cae28b7fe2c9c006b523340@dizum.com>, Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> writes:  S > Where is there a good place to look for VMS/OpenVMS job opportunities, preferably 2 > along the lines of programming versus sys mgmnt? > M > I keep checking DECUS, all the newsgroups, agencies, and the "resume farms" U > online. Is there another place I could look at? Is there an agency that specializes2M > in VMS pros? I've kind of been out of touch for a while, but am back on themL > market. With over 15 years experience it is very frustrating to be sittingN > idle. I'd just like to get another year or two out of VMS before I move onto > something else.a  D In the time you were out of touch someone has changed the buzzwords.C You will find the topic currently being discussed in this newsgroups@ under the stealth topic title of "VMS Resources".  Presumably an@ equal number of people have been disappointed to find that topic= says nothing at all about process quotas or nonpaged pool :-)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:06:40 +0000e  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comG Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities : Message-ID: <OF1CC14A39.D6657782-ON00256B3E.004D6C91@btyp>  E Given recent 'rumours' there should be some vacancies at NoSuchAgencyr soon...    ;^Dn   Steve Sf        9 Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> on 01/11/2002 04:50:10 AMe    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:aF From:      Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>, 11 January 2002, 4:50 a.m.  : A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunities    J I apologize if this is off-topic, but I have a quick question here for the group.  F Where is there a good place to look for VMS/OpenVMS job opportunities,
 preferably0 along the lines of programming versus sys mgmnt?  K I keep checking DECUS, all the newsgroups, agencies, and the "resume farms"pG online. Is there another place I could look at? Is there an agency thatt specializespK in VMS pros? I've kind of been out of touch for a while, but am back on theUJ market. With over 15 years experience it is very frustrating to be sittingG idle. I'd just like to get another year or two out of VMS before I move  onto something else.g  3 Any pointers and tips would be greatly appreciated.    Thanks,d  # Long in tooth, short on opportunity0                F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hastG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, $ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedtK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.r  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.e  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,wD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:17:00 GMTe' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>iG Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunitiesw+ Message-ID: <3C3F2CC5.7C24DB73@pacbell.net>c  D I agree. I already know how to go to monster.com and search for VMS.H What I would like to see is a world-wide resource for VMS jobs, upcoming" projects, VMS people and the like.   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Ken Farmer wrote:g > >E, > > http://www.OpenVMS.org has a Jobs Forum. > L > Would it be possible to get together with Compaq and decide on a job forumO > that is unique, complete and global so that customers would need only look in 
 > one place ?l > I > Right now, Compaq is pushing monster.com for USA-only jobs, and you aregL > pushing your own forum, and customers aren't told of either when then need > employees with VMS skills. > L > It would be nice if there were a single , complete, site for VMS jobs thatO > Compaq would tell all of its customers about. If customers don't know to lookeO > at that site, then they won't see how many starving VMS experts there are andt > how easy it is to lure them.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 12:42:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)AG Subject: Re: A quick question about where to look for VMS opportunitiesr3 Message-ID: <YtoxdpQEmADy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <OF1CC14A39.D6657782-ON00256B3E.004D6C91@btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com writes:o > G > Given recent 'rumours' there should be some vacancies at NoSuchAgencyt	 > soon..."  E If you are talking about the hardware sales rumors in this newsgroup,nB I don't think that counts, since VMS system management effort doesD not really scale up proportional with the number of systems managed.  B I also doubt that customers buying large systems are doing so manyD different things that they need lots of programmers.  They buy large< systems in order to more of the same thing, or do it faster.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:19:49 +0100 , From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>2 Subject: Re: Accessing tapes in DLT4500 tape drive* Message-ID: <a1m776$f5o$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  8 "Shael Richmond" <ksrich@bellsouth.net> wrote in message& news:3C3E69DB.7020104@bellsouth.net... > Martin Hunt wrote: >nH > > I am currently playing around with a Quantum DLT4500 tape drive withH > > loader. If I dismount a tape, the next tape in the loader is loaded.I > > But, is there any way of loading a specific tape, such as the tape ingC > > slot 4? Or, as I suspect, would I have to purchase a product too > > support this feature?m5 > > It would be nice to be able to do something like:i" > > $ MOUNT/FOREIGN MKA500 /SLOT=4 > >  > B > I'm not sure which model that is, but if it's similar to a TL891> > you can change the settings on the unit to be random and notA > sequential.  Mine came with MRU(Robot) which allows you to load ? > any slot you want.  There is also a freeware program MLU too.  >r > Shaelu  G Yes, the DLT4500 can be controlled with MRU. It has commands like ROBOTs" SHOW, ROBOT LOAD and ROBOT UNLOAD.K I am not sure if you need a license for MRU. It does not use a LMF PAK. Youw can download the kit from)B ftp://ftp.support.compaq.com/private/sms/mru/robot_sav-dcx_axp.exe   HTH!  	 Bart Zorn-   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 08:46:35 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)l2 Subject: Re: Accessing tapes in DLT4500 tape drive0 Message-ID: <a1m8pb$e9p$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  d In article <3c3e5b7d.371578081@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>, martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt) writes:E >I am currently playing around with a Quantum DLT4500 tape drive witheE >loader. If I dismount a tape, the next tape in the loader is loaded.nF >But, is there any way of loading a specific tape, such as the tape in@ >slot 4? Or, as I suspect, would I have to purchase a product to >support this feature?2 >It would be nice to be able to do something like: >$ MOUNT/FOREIGN MKA500 /SLOT=4   M I wrote a program to control a loader. It works fine with a Spectralogic tapeiN library, an overland DLT library and a Pioneer CD-ROM changer. If there is any+ interest in it I'll put it up for download.    Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:45:44 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n, Subject: Re: Alignment failure of DLT drives8 Message-ID: <hmft3u8emhfujfuhm55hrcj6s6nijats79@4ax.com>  F On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:24:50 -0700 (MST), John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com> wrote:   >h >Alan, >rL >I've had TZ89s since 1/98 and never have had trouble getting a file back.  I >It happened that I had to retrieve a file recently written by one of thefK >oldest drives and it was OK.  That one has been used 3-4 hours a day for 4   ; We were still abe to retrieve files if we did an *explicit*PF mount/density=tk89. Without this the drive would say "calibrating" forC around 15 minutes before deciding it had a blank tape.  At least oncD VMS. Something hidden in the depths of the backup software on our NTE servers seemed to insist on asking the drive to auto-sense making theuE drive effectively useless. Field Service engineer suggested that he'dnD replaced many such TZ89 head units after similar periods of user andF he knew of customers who now insisted on having replacement head units2 fitted every 12 months under maintenance contract.  C Still I haven't had a flood of people mail me so maybe its not thathC common a fault. I do know that we have previous generation (TK/Z 88s@ DLT 4000) units still in use with ten times the head movements.    >  -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:34:54 -0500h5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> & Subject: Re: Amazing, and a good laugh2 Message-ID: <8+k+PNOzpjt7kmgD4LDO0afYZt+2@4ax.com>   LOL!  DavidM  F On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 01:24:04 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  K >Truly impressive - makes any silliness that has gone on around here (in my L >memory, anyway) look tame, and all our participants look positively erudite >and urbane. >1 >- bill2 >:C >"David Beatty" <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> wrote in messagej- >news:Hww+PB39a24Lib46Zf2BE57fcJtN@4ax.com...t >>< >> I scanned through it.  Utterly amazing sometimes how much$ >> some people can be real a$$holes! >> >> David R. Beatty >>I >> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:44:58 -0700 (MST), John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>7	 >> wrote:@ >> >> > >> >Thanks to the Reg for this:  >> >> >> >http://petemoss.com/spamflames/ShifmanIsAMoronSpammer.html >> > >> >John Nebel >> >> >x   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:25:26 -0000S4 From: "Chris Sharman" <chris.sharman@ccagroup.co.uk>L Subject: Re: Any examples of setting up an FTP session from within an image?B Message-ID: <1010762532.12407.0.nnrp-13.9e989e7e@news.demon.co.uk>  J I've used madgoat ftp: comes with sources, & is relatively easy to rewriteI the main() entrypoint to allow you to use it as callable. We've had it in.C production for some years, fetching files from a mac server to vms.   
 Chris Sharmang1 "Nick Ross" <Nick@Swiftbase.net> wrote in messaget0 news:3c3c776e.315180235@news.cyberphile.co.uk...H > I appreciate this suggestion but I was trying to avoid going this way.E > I already have a process running (a symbiont) and didn't want it tolF > have to create a second. Naively I had assumed there would be an API > for UCX..- >-. > On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:38:55 -0500, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:@ >p > >Hoff Hoffman wrote:E > >>   I'd encourage use of a lib$spawn with a mailbox input, and I'dD
 explicitlyG > >>   ask lib$spawn to not copy any symbols and logical names into the  createdI > >>   subprocess. > > K > >This is especially valuable if the subprocess persists and you can issue K > >multiple FTP commands by just writing to the mailbox that is read by themL > >subprocess. The trick though is to parse the "variable" output of the FTP7 > >process to deal with various possible error reports.  > > C > >However, if you have multiple files to transfer, then the single, suboprocessnG > >can do it with a single log-in to the remote FTP server and then you: issue2 > >individual commands.0 > >mI > >(ie. don't issue LIB$SPAWN commands for each file, create a subprocessl andmA > >feed it commands, with a EXIT and LOGOUT at the end to end the9 subprocess). >X   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 09:46:50 -0800+ From: stephane_paquin@hotmail.com (SPaquin)rL Subject: Re: Any examples of setting up an FTP session from within an image?< Message-ID: <fdd7874.0201110946.4226b7cc@posting.google.com>  H Nick wrote in message news:<3c3b22f0.228014187@news.cyberphile.co.uk>...C > Anyone got an example of setting up an FTP session from within an - > image, any compilers source would be great.  > = > I don't want to spawn or creprc as its a waste of resource.c    E A similar request was in cov not long ago. Somebody suggested to have_B a look at http://nbpfaus.net/~pfau/ftplib/. It is an API to ftp. IF have not personally downloaded it or used it but I would be interestedF in your experience if you do try this freeware. Please report to c.o.v your experience.  
  Best of luckl	  Stephanew   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:25:53 GMT " From: John K <johnk50@hotmail.com>8 Subject: Re: Can Exabyte 8200s and 8505s exchange media?4 Message-ID: <Xns9193EB1B63C29284HDPOET@24.9.139.141>  E On 07 Jan 2002, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>1) posted this news:3c3a1f6e$1@news.si.com:     <snip> > F > I have four 8505s (reported by VMS as EXABYTE EXB-85058SQANXBP) thatF > can all read and write tapes among themselves, which tends to reduceI > the idea there's a misalignment problem.  When I mount an 8200-written,fI > labeled tape in any of the 8505s, no label is detected.  The same holdso > true for the other direction." > I > How can I determine if the 8200 mode is disabled or if there might be adB > firmware issue?  The 8505s are all in Storageworks cannisers and > mounted in SW shelves. > --C > Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com.C > Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.comt? > 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventr> > Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@": >        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company >  >   L It's probably a firmware setting then.  Possibly the Default Density Report   Code parameter or Mode Select.    H The only way you can examine the unit is to use the CTS Monitor (Get it  here: L http://www.exabyte.com/support/online/downloads/downloads.cfm?did=166), and L you'll need to figure out what kind of cable you need to attach to the tape C unit.  Some have a regular 9 pin serial I/F, others have the 4 pin  L connector.  If you have the 4 pin connector, you'll need to get the special J cable from Exabyte or make one yourself.  The Exabyte cable is P/N 727005 I and I think it costs around $25.00.  Why not ask your FE to check it for a you?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 05:58:54 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n% Subject: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?p, Message-ID: <3C3EC567.9149714C@videotron.ca>  @ I have often heard of SMTP relay being evil, and understand why.  M However, is it possible with TCPIP services (5.0) to enable the relaying onlya for local hosts ?q  M For instance a mac on the same lan as the vax could send messages to the vax,4I and if they don't belong on the vax, the vax would then relay them to thes5 ISP's SMTP server to be delivered onto the internet ?w  ( Or is relaying an all or nothing thing ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:43:39 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")) Subject: Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?t8 Message-ID: <00A07DDA.9E9871C2@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <3C3EC567.9149714C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:A >I have often heard of SMTP relay being evil, and understand why.o >oN >However, is it possible with TCPIP services (5.0) to enable the relaying only >for local hosts ? >uN >For instance a mac on the same lan as the vax could send messages to the vax,J >and if they don't belong on the vax, the vax would then relay them to the6 >ISP's SMTP server to be delivered onto the internet ?  G Or the VAX could try to deliver them itself, if Port 25 is open on the e router.  (Works with my Alpha.)N >i) >Or is relaying an all or nothing thing ?t  L I'm running 5.1 but I expect this was also a feature in 5.0.  You can createI a file in TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON called smtp.config and specify clients you'lla< relay for, in a variety of ways including ip/netmask combos.  D Mine looks like this (for the 5 static IP addresses on my home LAN):  4 Good-Clients: 127.0.0.1,nn.nnn.nnn.0/255.255.255.248  + (where the "nn"s are the actual numbers.)  o  @ I found this stuff in the TCPIP services documentation online at www.openvms.compaq.com.o     -- Alant        O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210pO ===============================================================================p   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:15:48 -05004% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>c) Subject: Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?r, Message-ID: <3C3ED768.5D020870@videotron.ca>  * Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr wrote:K > a file in TCPIP$SMTP_COMMON called smtp.config and specify clients you'llo> > relay for, in a variety of ways including ip/netmask combos. > F > Mine looks like this (for the 5 static IP addresses on my home LAN): > 6 > Good-Clients: 127.0.0.1,nn.nnn.nnn.0/255.255.255.248    Thanks. I know what to look for.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:22:40 -0000u* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>) Subject: Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?o+ Message-ID: <a1mled$jta@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   a "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:3C3EC567.9149714C@videotron.ca...e  B > I have often heard of SMTP relay being evil, and understand why. >tO > However, is it possible with TCPIP services (5.0) to enable the relaying onlyo > for local hosts ?a  < Relaying is all or nothing in 5.0, it's much improved in 5.1E You can however set the accept mask for the SMTP service to the localtC network, or firewall incoming SMTP. You can't then use the same boxa as an incoming mail router.e   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 11:51:46 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)_) Subject: Re: Can SMTP relay be non-evil ?n0 Message-ID: <a1mjki$ja9$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  \ In article <3C3EC567.9149714C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:A >I have often heard of SMTP relay being evil, and understand why.d >lN >However, is it possible with TCPIP services (5.0) to enable the relaying only >for local hosts ?  8 Don't know for TCPIP but with Multinet this is possible.  N >For instance a mac on the same lan as the vax could send messages to the vax,J >and if they don't belong on the vax, the vax would then relay them to the6 >ISP's SMTP server to be delivered onto the internet ?   We do just that.  ) >Or is relaying an all or nothing thing ?w   Definitively not.    Regards,    Christoph GartmannB  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:28:39 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businesss> Message-ID: <bMB%7.66139$Sj1.27215667@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "Rick Nickles" <chinachowchow@mailcity.com> wrote in message7 news:ac4e3b24.0201091055.596af704@posting.google.com...pG > It really seems that the best thing for VMS is to spin it off as it'srF > own separate business (company).  That way there isn't the politicalH > agenda with Microsoft, and then they are free to market VMS like crazyH > and really build up a following as a single company.  Compaq stands toG > gain, The users stand to gain, Customers stand to gain.  The only oneyF > that might lose is Microsoft, and it isn't like they'll be hurt that
 > bad anyway.- >- > What do you think folks?  G Well, first and foremost, I think it's easy to tell other people how to:H spend their money and run their businesses. The idea of spinning off VMSL would appear to have some merit, but a potential downside for CPQ as well. IK don't believe that CPQ's obsession with low-end Wintel kit will continue to E transcend the firm's search for profitability and stability, and I donJ believe that some of the senior management folks may be a bit smarter than0 they've been given for in this and other forums.  H What I would like to see is a level playing field upon which Mark GorhamF could aggressively promote VMS without fear of running afoul of the OSF Political Correctness Police. Is VMS a superior enterprise platform toH Windows? You bet your ass it is! Same can be said for NSK and Tru64, andH Compaq's respective business units should be free to tout the virtues ofH their respective products. After all, there is a place for Windows; MaryH McDowell does quite nicely with Windows (and SCO and Linux) on her 8-wayB boxes.) In most cases the place for Windows and the place for trueH enterprise OSes are different places indeed and Compaq should be able to* segment the market and target accordingly.  J Of course, what do I know? I don't have an MBA, a fancy title, and a $300KK salary. But then again, it's folks in the aforementioned category that haveiD created the current Fine Marketing Mess that Compaq finds itself in!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:45:30 +0100h1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> + Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business 4 Message-ID: <3C3F24BA.D9C6A24@swissonline.delete.ch>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a >  ...  > S > ... I don't believe that CPQ's obsession with low-end Wintel kit will continue tohG > transcend the firm's search for profitability and stability, and I do0L > believe that some of the senior management folks may be a bit smarter than2 > they've been given for in this and other forums.  G It's damn hard to see the justification in some of the things they do. / (see more about this below.)  J > What I would like to see is a level playing field upon which Mark GorhamH > could aggressively promote VMS without fear of running afoul of the OSH > Political Correctness Police. Is VMS a superior enterprise platform toJ > Windows? You bet your ass it is! Same can be said for NSK and Tru64, andJ > Compaq's respective business units should be free to tout the virtues ofJ > their respective products. After all, there is a place for Windows; MaryJ > McDowell does quite nicely with Windows (and SCO and Linux) on her 8-wayD > boxes.) In most cases the place for Windows and the place for trueJ > enterprise OSes are different places indeed and Compaq should be able to, > segment the market and target accordingly.    H The real 64(-bit) question is why won't Compaq open the marketing and be* happy to sell any product to any customer.  C - If it is to simplify marketing then that's just plain dumb.  MakeeF things easier for one department but in doing so cost the company many1 millions of dollars in profit ??  Makes no sense.-  F - Is it the top people making these decisions and if so, on what basisG ?  Gartner ?  Aberdeen Group ?  Someone into astrology or runestones ?  D I would have thought if predictions of the demise of VMS were made 2H years ago and it has fairly obviously not disappeared (and even had someF discernible growth in 2000), then the so-called advice would have been9 rejected by now and some effort been made to promote it.    C - Is it the advice the decision-makers are getting ?  Is Mary-Ellen0F Fortier or whoever it is that runs marketing justifying the niches forD VMS by claiming that there is no money to be made in other markets. G I'll really love to see any details of tests that have been executed to.H validate this hypothesis.  Sure the niche markets might be prime targetsE and favored markets, but that's not to say that the use of VMS should E not be encouraged in other markets even more so when it returns a lotTG more for every dollar spent on it than do the PCs or even Unix.  I knowiH you don't buy a dog and then do the barking yourself, but if your highlyG paid marketing people can't market the range of products to the maximumd( extent, then what use are those people ?  D I really hope that Compaq takes a good hard look at why they are notH making greater profits. Compaq's Sep 30th financials blamed the economy,F Sep 11 and a typhoon in Taiwan - blamed all kinds of external forces. ; It's high time they looked at the internal obstacles too.        John McLeann   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:12:35 GMTr' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> + Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businesst+ Message-ID: <3C3F2BBC.75F08991@pacbell.net>e  # I restate part of a previous post :0C VMS could still be saved, but it would take some group with $$$ andl vision and even someF acceptance from the VMS community that the OS needs to evolve and that3 might be more difficult than getting the investors.:   Rick Nickles wrote:u > G > It really seems that the best thing for VMS is to spin it off as it'sFF > own separate business (company).  That way there isn't the politicalH > agenda with Microsoft, and then they are free to market VMS like crazyH > and really build up a following as a single company.  Compaq stands toG > gain, The users stand to gain, Customers stand to gain.  The only onetF > that might lose is Microsoft, and it isn't like they'll be hurt that
 > bad anyway.t >  > What do you think folks?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:10:49 -0500>+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>0H Subject: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now AvailableT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B74@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  
 Hello All,  G As a fyi - the latest Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha  is now available.   C http://www.compaq.com/java/alpha/index.html (Main Compaq Alpha Javau Page)jC http://www.compaq.com/java/documentation/1.3.1/ovms/docs/INDEX.HTMLg (Documentation)1H http://www.compaq.com/java/download/jdk_ovms/1.3.1/j2sdk1.3.1_highlights html (JDK 1.3.1-1 highlights)eH http://www.compaq.com/java/download/fastvm_ovms/1.3.1/fvm131_highlights.! html (Fast VM 1.3.1-1 highlights)iD http://www.compaq.com/java/contact/index.html#OpenVMS (Contact Info)   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanto Compaq Canada Corp.3 Professional Servicesc Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:05:27 -0700n) From: "DigiDemon" <digidemon@hotmail.com>N; Subject: Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions + Message-ID: <a1mrdu0ej0@enews4.newsguy.com>i  
 Good day all!n  E I'll attack these step by step ;)  I'd like to compile programs (likeeH samba for example) but I haven't a clue where to start to get a compiler$ on my As2000 4/275.  Any hints here?  I I finally got my Deccus ID (YAY), but in oder to register to get the freecI license software I need the cpu serial number...is there any way short ofT$ cracking the cover to find this out?   (Off topic, hardware) I Lastly, I yanked out that EISA video card and installed a Diamond StealthPI card.  However show device in SRM still says an ISA is present.  How do Ir disable this?  Thanks all!   Jamesf   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:55:21 -0500e; From: "Webb, William W Raleigh, NC" <wwebb1@email.usps.gov>n? Subject: RE: Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions K Message-ID: <D46FE9B132FB9B44AEC242A96E4AB75004BC5BCB@rlghncst625.usps.gov>e   -----Original Message-----0 From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET & Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:37 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET; Subject: Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions4    
 Good day all!c  E I'll attack these step by step ;)  I'd like to compile programs (likewH samba for example) but I haven't a clue where to start to get a compiler$ on my As2000 4/275.  Any hints here?  I I finally got my Deccus ID (YAY), but in oder to register to get the freewI license software I need the cpu serial number...is there any way short of $ cracking the cover to find this out?  J        The serial number should be on the back of the box, .  Mine are 200 4/166sB        and they both have tags right under the keylock on the back   (Off topic, hardware)pI Lastly, I yanked out that EISA video card and installed a Diamond Stealth-I card.  However show device in SRM still says an ISA is present.  How do Io disable this?  Thanks all!  I        I believe you've got to run the EISA configuration utility to make2I        it go away, but that's conjecture because I've never had to do it.n        o
        WWWebbo   James    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 11:04:57 -0600 From: rivie@cougar.no.domain? Subject: Re: Compiling, Deccus, and CPU Serial Number questions,3 Message-ID: <slrna3u7dj.4qn.rivie@cougar.no.domain>m  < In article <a1mrdu0ej0@enews4.newsguy.com>, DigiDemon wrote:G > I'll attack these step by step ;)  I'd like to compile programs (likeoJ > samba for example) but I haven't a clue where to start to get a compiler& > on my As2000 4/275.  Any hints here?  C You don't need the _CPU_ serial number, you just need the machine'seA serial number. Should be on a sticker on the back of the machine.  -- .
 Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu     > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!2> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:45:19 -0600i1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>e/ Subject: Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Actionc8 Message-ID: <a1mtqj$673$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  J So Mr. Lay got "Fritoed".  It would be interesting to see what will happen to Frito in the future.r    ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message 8 news:AWq%7.65299$Sj1.26862730@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...J > My, my, my... a month ago the CPQ Investor Relations site listed Ken Lay asI > a CPQ Director. A visit to the same site today makes no mention of Ken.n > I > But many other news sources are making PLENTY of mention of Mr. Lay. He  was-9 > the CEO of a little petroleum startup called Enron. ;-}5 >0	 > cheers,  >M	 > terry se@ > Who is willing to fill the seat apparently vacated by MIA Lay. >s > -- > Terry C. Shannon > Consultant and Publisher > Shannon Knows Compaq' > Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.,. > Northern Delegate, DFWCUG Steering Committee" > email: terryshannon@mediaone.net4 > Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org >o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:07:00 -0800u' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>r/ Subject: Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Action + Message-ID: <3C3F0DA4.810A97D7@caltech.edu>-   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:e  @ > Who is willing to fill the seat apparently vacated by MIA Lay. >  > --   Walter Hewlett ;-)   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:26:00 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>/ Subject: Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Actione> Message-ID: <cuD%7.66308$Sj1.27283643@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  < "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> wrote in message2 news:a1mtqj$673$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com...L > So Mr. Lay got "Fritoed".  It would be interesting to see what will happen > to Frito in the future.   L An up close and personal involvement in Problem Decomposition is a possible.G In other words, using a (non-AMD) Sledgehammer to reduce big rocks inton: smaller ones at at Federal Rock Decomposition Institution.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:07:51 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>/ Subject: Re: CPQ Board Member Missing in Actiony> Message-ID: <r5E%7.66347$Sj1.27306368@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "David Mathog" <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message% news:3C3F0DA4.810A97D7@caltech.edu...2 > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:2 >2B > > Who is willing to fill the seat apparently vacated by MIA Lay. > >i > > -- >  > Walter Hewlett ;-)  L That was a statement, not a question. Somehow I doubt that Mr. Hewlett wouldJ be welcome on the Compaq board. He's alway in the HWP Directors' DogHouse. ;-}I   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 13:58:02 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818)R/ Subject: CSWS: Cancel or Expire Authentication?9+ Message-ID: <a1mr1a$pf8@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>=  I I have several protected scripts and documents, currently protected under % APACHE and its authentication scheme:4  % LoadModule auth_openvms_module        1 /apache$common/modules/mod_auth_openvms.exe_alpha-$ LoadModule auth_mylocal_module      1 /apache$common/modules/mod_auth_mylocal.exe_alphai .....C   <Directory "/myprotected/">f     AllowOverride None     Order allow,deny     Allow from all     AuthType Basic5     AuthName "Supply Application UserID and Password"I     AuthMyLocal On     AuthUserOpenVMS On     require valid-user </Directory>  O This results in whenever anything (script, document, etc.) in the /myprotected/eD directory is requested from a browser, the user is presented with a M browser-based login panel that must satisfy the authorization critera of the eK AuthMyLocal module, or perhaps (depending on the way the MyLocal module is aC coded to reply) fall thru to the OpenVMS module for authentication.   K Once this authentication is completed, then for the duration of the browserTL session the user can get to resources in this directory.  In all cases, the M REMOTE_USER environment variable  passed to CGI scripts in this directory is h3 the userid supplied in the authentication dialog.  w  N I *BELIEVE* the correct term for this model is the BASIC Authentication model,< but that might be wrong and isn't the crux of this question.  K I'm looking for a way for a document or cgi script (perhaps NOT in the samecG protected directory) to EXPIRE or CANCEL that authentication so that a -G subsequent attempt to access a script or document IN the /myprotected/ mK directory will force a new browser-based login panel (perhaps responded to v8 with a different userid/password pair?) to be presented.  N Browsers in common use against these scripts/servers are all flavors of IE and7 Netscape, and of course it's got to work for all cases.i  M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+ N | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |nM | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          |rM | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         |-M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       | M | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close |aM | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            |eM | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      |wM +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+-9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]y3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a> :J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\e#       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNa!        X        AGAINST HTML MAILa	       / \1   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:02:06 GMThL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")# Subject: Re: csws_php and Multinet?g8 Message-ID: <00A07DD4.D0DA2B9F@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <d7791aa1.0201091550.868c841@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:n  E quoted my recounting of mod_php being linked against TCPIP images notM/ present on a system running Multinet and wrote:    > M >that is why we run purveyor on tcpware ... the apache group must think everytE >one uses ucx, and do not thouroughly test on tcpware or multinet ...u  J Pedantry: If it were still UCX, everything would have been fine; it's the 3 TCP-IP SERVICES shareable image that's the problem.   F Fairness: Apache itself works fine (if you just define TCPIP$DEVICE asF UCX$DEVICE); mod_perl works fine (and the Compaq version of Perl is noF longer years behind the times); Jakarta seems to work fine.  This is aK beta, they'll have a fix in the release version.  Finally, as wonderful as eI Process Software is (and I am a very happy Multinet and PMDF customer), ItK don't notice them doing a PHP port at all, free or otherwise.  If I want tosI run mod_php, Purveyor can't do it for me.  Purveyor can't run Java Servere# Pages for me either, last I looked.s      O ===============================================================================u0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056eM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:51:49 GMTa0 From: Donald McCabe <donald.mccabe@engineer.com>1 Subject: follow up on ATI Radeon 7500 for OpenVMS + Message-ID: <3C3EFC05.4050009@engineer.com>C   Ruben,H Some time back, you mentioned that the Radeon 7500 graphics card was in G the process of being supported on OpenVMS. Is that project still being cG worked? If so, do you know a rough estimate of when it might complete? sC My aux player stations are DS20E's and the Powerstorm 350 is now a  I bottle neck as we keep adding new functionality. I could use the upgrade t performance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:28:25 -0500h5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>r5 Subject: Re: follow up on ATI Radeon 7500 for OpenVMSr2 Message-ID: <lkF%7.576$5Y4.15248@news.cpqcorp.net>  A Donald McCabe wrote in message <3C3EFC05.4050009@engineer.com>...I >Ruben,kH >Some time back, you mentioned that the Radeon 7500 graphics card was inG >the process of being supported on OpenVMS. Is that project still beingrG >worked? If so, do you know a rough estimate of when it might complete?bC >My aux player stations are DS20E's and the Powerstorm 350 is now asI >bottle neck as we keep adding new functionality. I could use the upgradee
 >performance.t >A  J Well, I'm not Ruben... but I'll try to answer your question.  The ATI 7500J is planned to be in a release in late fall.  We'll probably have somethingJ to Beta test this summer.  Contact Ruben who can set something up with Ben) when we get to the point of Beta testing.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:33:42 GMT " From: John K <johnk50@hotmail.com>) Subject: Re: Former customers and mergerss5 Message-ID: <Xns91931005033319284HDPOET@24.9.139.141>j  C On 05 Jan 2002, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> posted thiso% news:3C36C1FE.792F541A@videotron.ca: l   > Was thinking the other day.  > F > MCI un the USA used to be a big VMS shop with one (or more) of theirF > employees contributing here and alwasy pointing out how VMS in their > shop was truly critical. d > 8 > Since then, MCI was merged/incorporated into Worldcom. > @ > Does anyone know if the combined entity has maintained its VMSE > infrastructure or did they select Worldcomm systems  and dump VMS ?  >   J Some of the 6000's have moved out.  Lots of Storageworks Works stuff went  too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:42:05 GMTj1 From: CSABA  HARANGOZO   <csabah@zipworld.com.au>e6 Subject: FS: VAX/VMS  Internals and Data Struct.  book8 Message-ID: <1kz%7.2053$ko4.214925@nasal.pacific.net.au>   	FOR SALE :i  ' 	VAX/VMS Internals and Data  Structures  				by Ruth E. Goldenberg  & 				   Lawrence J. Kenah  # 	Published by Digital Press,   1991e: 	Hardcover, over 1400 pages with a beautiful black sleeve. 	Order no : EY-C171E-D1a 	ISBN   1-55558-059-9h  9 	This book is a _must_ for a serious VAX professional, or / 	anyone with an interest in the working of VMS.r1 	The book is in *mint* condition, never been used   - 	I am looking for US$60 or more, plus postagep? 	( Postage would be around the US$20 mark, mainly because it ish 	a _HEAVY_ book.)g  $ 	If you are interested, let me know. 						Cheers,    Csaba  I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------sE    * Csaba I. Harangozo     |    'To err is human', said the hedgehogaE    * csabah@zipworld.com.au |           as he dismounted a wirebrush. I    ----------------------------------------------------------------------o;    EARTH::AUSTRALIA:[SYDNEY]HARANGOZO.CSABA;1, delete? [N]:e   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:25:38 -0800& From: david_toolan@hotmail.com (Dvaid) Subject: FTP Success/Failure?n= Message-ID: <de9f97c7.0201110625.6a5da7ba@posting.google.com>    Hi,e  C We have a FTP job that transfers files from a VMS machine to an IBM ? machine. The job can take up to 6 hours to complete. Recently a B firewall was placed between the two machines. The rule base on theC firewall is quite stringent regarding the types of packets/requestseD that are allowed through. Sometines the ftp process appeared to hangA (no data going through the local port), which resulted in the joba having to be resent.  D Currently the only way we have of knowing that the job has completed= successfully is by multiplying the file block size by 512 and-D comparing this with the number of bytes that have passed through theE socket. We are not getting any response from the IBM machine. We haveVC split the file into 6 files and are planning to send these files to1 the other machine.  5 We are running TCP/IP V4.2 - ECO 4 on OpenVMS V7.1-2.s  C Is there any process/system logical that we can use to determine if B the file transfer is currently taking place or if the transfer has completed successfully.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:55:19 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure?.) Message-ID: <3C3EFCD7.FF1D100D@127.0.0.1>e   Dvaid wrote: > E > We have a FTP job that transfers files from a VMS machine to an IBM.A > machine. The job can take up to 6 hours to complete. Recently apD > firewall was placed between the two machines. The rule base on theE > firewall is quite stringent regarding the types of packets/requests:F > that are allowed through. Sometines the ftp process appeared to hangC > (no data going through the local port), which resulted in the jobd > having to be resent.  E > Is there any process/system logical that we can use to determine if D > the file transfer is currently taking place or if the transfer has > completed successfully.    Been there, with problems.  F TCP/IP is at its best, very simple. You do not get the safety net that= (say) a DECnet copy gives you or Decnet/SNa. In effect TCP/IPD= compromises what VMS can offer you with its native protocols.a  H Formerly on this list I described how I transfer files to my file serverA from a VMS system. In summary, I generate a file with the currentoG OpenVMS date and time, push it to the server, push the files, then pullsE back the date/time file, and compare it with a copy of what I sent. Is? then know I have a fair chance the link did not fail during theeF transfer. To verify the files, you need to pull back the copy you sentE and do a DIFFERENCES. I had a case where a router was responsible forl2 corrupting odd packets between a VAX and an AS400.A Using PUSH-PULL it put the error back under VMS's control and theg transfer could be reattempted.  E However you have a 6 hour transfer time, so I don't think that methodbA will suit. Try using the method of sending a date timefile at the:H beginning, then pull that back for comparison. Do a search on google andC you should find my post. "My OpenVMS web procedures" from around 14k
 September 01.x  G Perhaps another think you might try is an LS when you've sent the file,4G then examining the output for the filesize. It's a little while since IoE worked with mainframe FTP, it may give you date and size in a way youe# can compare it to your source file.i  G Don't believe the status codes sent by your FTP package, the remote end  may give a false signal.   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:07:20 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Getting DEC ADA 3.5A to workS3 Message-ID: <ZA0MY1XGe3JR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   x In article <BQs%7.155420$lV4.26774216@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:  O >> In article <3c3d5587$1@news.post.ch>, "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> writes:-O >>> Keep in mind, that Compaq Ada83 will not make it to Itanium. This makes you & >>> effort even more questionable :-). > N > It's a Hobbyist Alpha system.  I think it's safe to assume that it will be aM > *long* while before I have a chance to upgrade to a Hobbyist Itanium system J > (that will partitially depend on hardware requirements to run OpenVMS onI > Itanium).  As such, the only real problem I see here is that it's Ada83 J > instead of Ada95, however, as near as I can tell GNAT isn't available to > Hobbyists on OpenVMS.e  ? A Freeware version of GNAT on VMS is available, but GNAT on VMS  has never exist for VAX.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:07:41 GMTwG From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> ) Subject: Re: Getting DEC ADA 3.5A to work-2 Message-ID: <xsB%7.513$TS6.411@www.newsranger.com>  , On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 03:18:57 GMT, in articleM <BQs%7.155420$lV4.26774216@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>, Zane H. Healy wrote:o > M >It's a Hobbyist Alpha system.  I think it's safe to assume that it will be atL >*long* while before I have a chance to upgrade to a Hobbyist Itanium systemI >(that will partitially depend on hardware requirements to run OpenVMS oneH >Itanium).  As such, the only real problem I see here is that it's Ada83I >instead of Ada95, however, as near as I can tell GNAT isn't available tot >Hobbyists on OpenVMS. >e  H GNAT on VMS Alpha is available. Attached is something that I wrote a fewI months back in comp.lang.ada. Note that I have not made heavy use of this F implementation, as I have been mainly using GNAT on Linux, but it does! work for the things that I tried.c  J BTW, if you haven't found it yet, http://www.adapower.com has a vast range* of online resources and tutorials for Ada.  J ------------------ Original Article Below --------------------------------  , On Sun, 09 Sep 2001 23:14:18 GMT, in article? <3B9BF675.4AD79FFF@NOSPAMcompaq.com>, Charlie McCutcheon wrote:- >- >Stefan Skoglund wrote:0 >0 >> Larry Kilgallen wrote: " >> > It looks to me like it is at: >> >? >> >         ftp://ftp.cs.nyu.edu/pub/gnat/private/old/openvms/7 >>6 >> Thanks (i'm son gonna be a happy VAXstation owner ) >iF >I don't believe that is a VAX target.  I think they've only ported to' >OpenVMS Alpha, but I could be wrong...a >g >Charlie >   J Charlie is correct, the port at the above address is for Alpha only and noI port for VAX exists. In case the original poster knows this and was usingm= "VAXstation" as a generic term, the following may be helpful:y  G Before installing the above kit, you need to install the Ada Predefined : Libraries for GNAT as well as the current C RTL patch kit.  ) You can find the Predefined Libraries at:i  - http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/ada/   J and follow the link under "Ada 95 Utilities". Be aware that Charlie _does_ read the feedback form. :-)s  H You can find the C RTL patch kit for your version of VMS by starting at:  - ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/-  N The debugger in use is GDB, but GDB is not supplied as part of the public kit.H I asked ACT about this, and Robert Dewar's response was that there was aM GDB kit at NYU, but it appears to have been removed. He suggested that I look J at the mirrors, but this did not turn up anything. E-Mail to NYU also wentI unanswered. If you do find a GDB for VMS, please post it's location here, ' as I would be interested in finding it.a   Simon.  K ------------------- End Original Article ----------------------------------o   Simon.   -- .@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:28:00 GMTsG From: Simon Clubley <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP>r) Subject: Re: Getting DEC ADA 3.5A to work@2 Message-ID: <ALB%7.534$TS6.182@www.newsranger.com>  , On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:07:41 GMT, in article< <xsB%7.513$TS6.411@www.newsranger.com>, Simon Clubley wrote: >_H >Before installing the above kit, you need to install the Ada Predefined; >Libraries for GNAT as well as the current C RTL patch kit.t  H I should point out that installing the Predefined Libraries only appearsE to be required if you don't already have DEC Ada 3.5A on your system.   ; You should still apply the current C RTL patch kit however.h   Simon.   -- u@ Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.e   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 02:37:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end!e- Message-ID: <87g05e128m.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  C > I believe ONE low-cost Alpha chip was produced, the 21066 used inn > the Multia IIRC.  > Yep, and the 21068 as well. The 066 was the common one though.  e@ > There were plans for additional Alpha-LC (nnn66) and Alpha-ULCC > (Ultra Low Cost) (nnn68) parts, but these never came to fruition.p  eB > Sequestered somewhere in the Charlie Matco Basement of Doom is aF > circa 1990 or 91 Alpha presentation which made all sorts of fabulous@ > claims. Perhaps I should have Charlie try to dig this documentE > up... it would clearly indicate the bill o' goods that the Merchantr= > Microprocessor Mavens sold to DEC's management and Board ofe > Directors.  F Now, for the trivia buffs, how did DEC LC the LCA? First, they went to@ a cheeper package, and clock to suit. The 21066/166 are a 200MHz7 chip. At 166MHz, the PS rails run 3V of noise on the 5Vs, supply. Second, they got rid of the chipset.  E The 21164PC cut the chip cost, but did nothing about production costslD of the board etc. The 164SX is the only one that used it that I knowD of. A LCA type approach would have been a much better way to go, and
 lots cheaper.n   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 02:44:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>7 Subject: Re: Hey Intel, VMS is your ticket to high end! - Message-ID: <87bsg211wu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  4 > "Russell Wallace" <rw@eircom.net> wrote in message, > news:3c3991cf.178445555@news.eircom.net...  8 > > On Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:57:05 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"& > > <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  C > > >This will change when $999 IPF boxes become available down the 
 > > >road.  ( What, when all the sucker dump that POS?  F > > What makes you think this will happen? IPF is big, complicated andA > > expensive; the only way it'll ever be cheap is if it sells inaE > > enormous volumes, and I'm not clear there's any reason to supposeg3 > > substantial numbers of people will ever buy it..  / See "Idiot's guide to Dummies" by W C Fields ;)t  C > Many things will happen over the next five years, right? For suremE > IPF adoption rates are infinitesimally low right now, but I suspect E > this will change over time. Hence I wouldn't be surprised to see elv= > cheapo IPF parts in the second half of the decade. But big,eB > complicated, and expensive is an apt description for Itanium and > McKinley!   ? Well, SGI and Dell have left the rats to enjoy the ride by themS? selves, so not many of their customers will be the happy ownersi of there systems.f  > Remind me, who was it who was going to bring out a system 2 to 3 times as fast as Alpha?      -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:19:41 +0100 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>=: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <3C3EA01D.7B7D19D1@mediasec.de>D  N Is there actually an alive human language where case differences (if they haveL the concept of case at all) routinely connote semantic differences? How many  speakers do such languages have?  A I do not consider English, for instance, to belong in this class,- the Lord notwithstanding.a   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:27:37 +0100lE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>n: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <3C3EA1F9.7AC09FC2@mediasec.de>c  D > (c) seems to be the most attractive choice, until you realize how + > vitally important portability really is.    L Really? The problem I see with your case (c) is that somebody creates a fileH with the language set to one value, then another person with a differentK language setting tries to use a different-case version to access this file, L but fails because the case-mapping rules of the two languages are different.- Of course, she can still use the correct-caseo version to access the file.7  I I would be interested in an example where two languages have a lower-case4G letter - say "" - and one upper-cases it to "" and the other to "AE",h7 or whatever. These are the only ones that fit the bill.   D > Once you make the difficult choice to be case-sensitive, you don't% > have to deal with these problems.  h   ...which almost never occur.  B > You have appropriate and predictable behavior that is completely
 > portable.  w  1 ...and surprised the vast majority of your users.e  K So you're trading surprising a small subset of your users in rare cases for ; surprising a majority of your users often. How kind of you.a  F With that attitude, I suggest you remove automatic file name expansion from your shell immediately.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:47:49 +01001E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>R: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <3C3EA6B5.90F240B8@mediasec.de>2  C > Bill went on to do some work in the Ada arena.  Another language 9 > that didn't get very far.a  K Oh really? You apparently haven't taken a plane from Airbus or Boeing for a < few decades. I can see now why you are not getting very far.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:02:47 +0100C9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C3EAA37.78954700@aaa.com>t   German  : "Sie" vs. "sie". Swedish : "Ni" vs. "ni".  $ Don't know the number of speakers...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.-   "Jan C. Vorbrggen" wrote: > P > Is there actually an alive human language where case differences (if they haveN > the concept of case at all) routinely connote semantic differences? How many" > speakers do such languages have? > C > I do not consider English, for instance, to belong in this class,G > the Lord notwithstanding.  > 
 >         Janh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:38:23 +0100bE From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> : Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <3C3EB28F.F1E0753D@mediasec.de>T   > German  : "Sie" vs. "sie".  J Hmmm, I'll have to concede half a point on that. Misspellings rarely causeA confusion (indeed, I have the impression most people younger thanbH me don't know the difference), but it is quite possible. Of course, thisF is not a stand-alone word (the difference only makes sense in context, as for all reflexive pronouns).    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:43:51 +0100s9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>-: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C3EB3D7.66EFB56E@aaa.com>[  9 My son is 15 years old, and this is how they learn German6; *today*. And he surely know the differens together with the: rest of his German class.s= And misspelling causes an error in any written tests they do.i   What's your age :-)   	 Jan-Erik.s   "Jan C. Vorbrggen" wrote: >  > > German  : "Sie" vs. "sie". > L > Hmmm, I'll have to concede half a point on that. Misspellings rarely causeC > confusion (indeed, I have the impression most people younger thaneJ > me don't know the difference), but it is quite possible. Of course, thisH > is not a stand-alone word (the difference only makes sense in context,! > as for all reflexive pronouns).  > 
 >         Janw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:51:13 +0100l4 From: Martin Heller <martin.heller@whoa.mheller.org>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC/ Message-ID: <3C3EB591.3070305@whoa.mheller.org>c  7 BEWARE: NTFS IS case-sensitive!  the win32 subsystem isg7 responsible for this brain-damaged case-insensitivenessn
 of programms.2G If you use the real posix subsystem of Microsoft/Interix you can createwG files un(readable,appendable,deletable) by normal Win32 programs, whichr can be very annoying ....e  	 M. Hellerl Jan C. Vorbrggen wrote:  G >>Anyone who believes that capitalization isn't part of standard usage n= >>probably believes that ee cummings writing style is normal.g >> > J > You don't seem to understand we want a case-preserving, case-insensitiveI > system - just about the only thing NTFS got right, with ODS-5 followingpJ > suit. Capitalization is an aid to text comprehension, but it changes the@ > meaning only in very rare cases. _That_ is the proper analogy. >  > 	Jan >    ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 02 08:24:12 GMTc From: jmfbahciv@aol.comn: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <a1mf03$qb7$2@bob.news.rcn.net>y  - In article <10JAN200219011881@gerg.tamu.edu>,i+    carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:n" >"JD" <dyson@jdyson.com> writes...G >}Yes it does...   The mistaken tradition of normalizing the display ofbE >}filenames to a fixed case (e.g. RAD50/SIXBIT) might have given risepA >}to the mistaken notion that filename comparison should be case c insensitive. >}John >iD >The problem is that you just made a false statement. This notion isE >*not* mistaken. All filename comparisons should be case insensitive.wG >This is true, good, and essential in any properly designed filesystem.f  < Note that JD does not know what a filesystem is.  He appears@ to think that it is separate from an OS.  He also seems to think< that a filesystem design can be completely divorced from the! hardware the system was built on.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.a   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 02 08:29:56 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.come: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <a1mfaq$qb7$3@bob.news.rcn.net>n  2 In article <7Up%7.167$vb1.27100@news1.iquest.net>,!    "JD" <dyson@jdyson.com> wrote:t <snip>  ; >Again:  FILENAMES aren't necessarily English proper names.   6 They never were.  Just about everything we shipped was= an acronym or a description of the _function_ of the program.t   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.h   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 02 08:19:33 GMTl From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <a1menc$qb7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>e  + In article <3C3DC83C.B4129E83@mediasec.de>,,I    Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:CH >> Anyone who believes that capitalization isn't part of standard usage > >> probably believes that ee cummings writing style is normal. >LI >You don't seem to understand we want a case-preserving, case-insensitiveZH >system - just about the only thing NTFS got right, with ODS-5 followingI >suit. Capitalization is an aid to text comprehension, but it changes the.? >meaning only in very rare cases. _That_ is the proper analogy.r  ? Note that most of the argument for case sensitivity is smushing @ the documenation of the application into a filename <shudder>^4.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 02 08:37:30 GMTr From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <a1mfp1$qb7$4@bob.news.rcn.net>   - In article <10JAN200219335759@gerg.tamu.edu>, +    carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:a: >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes...C >}Carl Perkins wrote in message <9JAN200221084771@gerg.tamu.edu>...l >}> I >}>VMS can handle mixed case filenames these days. It is case preserving,-K >}>but not case sensitive - it has never been case sensitive, unless it wasrK >}>before V3.7 or so when I first used VMS, but it has only recently (aboutrH >}>a year or so ago) gained a filesystem that preserves the case insteadF >}>of converting all filenames to uppercase. Not all sites use the new% >}>filesystem (I don't, for example).  >} '5 >}Comming soon:  $ set proc/case=sensitive (or blind)  >} i= >}Available in V7.2-6C1 (COE) and in the next V7.3-x release.o >H >Yeah, I know. >t? >I would say that the only use this should ever be put to is ton> >deal with case sensitivity in files that are on a Unix system@ >that are accessable to the VMS system (say, via NFS). Any otherA >use should result in the user being smacked upside the head withTB >a large blunt object (its a pity that this can not be enforced by >the VMS system automatically).o  : And I hope somebody remembered to include a file attribute> to specify how it was created.  What a way to screw the world.# Think about reading remote files.  o   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:30:28 +0100-E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>9: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC+ Message-ID: <3C3EDAE4.F8C206EC@mediasec.de>   ; > My son is 15 years old, and this is how they learn GermanI= > *today*. And he surely know the differens together with they > rest of his German class.e  L Then he is a better German writer than most of the German pupils and many of the adults I know.  ? > And misspelling causes an error in any written tests they do.o  M It's an orthographic error, for sure; but it rarely causes confusion, i.e., ad semantic error.a   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:11:02 -0500s# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> : Subject: RE: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC: Message-ID: <NEBBIALHDHJMJINPGMOAEEICEBAA.dallen@nist.gov>   <snip>  l > This can't be fixed for UNIX.  > M > We give people the option on VMS of how to do things - mostly to be able torL > represent files from non-VMS sources.  But mixing modes can create logicalM > inconsistancy.  Hey, we gave you the gun (as the Unix people say) feel freer > to shoot off your foot.r >   J 	Umm - the feet are safe - why to you thing they call themselves Eunuchs?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:51:10 -0500u5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <X0D%7.564$5Y4.15155@news.cpqcorp.net>  B Carl Perkins wrote in message <10JAN200219335759@gerg.tamu.edu>...: >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes...C >}Carl Perkins wrote in message <9JAN200221084771@gerg.tamu.edu>...  >}>nI >}>VMS can handle mixed case filenames these days. It is case preserving,bK >}>but not case sensitive - it has never been case sensitive, unless it wasfK >}>before V3.7 or so when I first used VMS, but it has only recently (about H >}>a year or so ago) gained a filesystem that preserves the case insteadF >}>of converting all filenames to uppercase. Not all sites use the new% >}>filesystem (I don't, for example).o >}5 >}Comming soon:  $ set proc/case=sensitive (or blind)5 >}= >}Available in V7.2-6C1 (COE) and in the next V7.3-x release.n >l >Yeah, I know. > ? >I would say that the only use this should ever be put to is tol> >deal with case sensitivity in files that are on a Unix system@ >that are accessable to the VMS system (say, via NFS). Any otherA >use should result in the user being smacked upside the head withsB >a large blunt object (its a pity that this can not be enforced by >the VMS system automatically).v >e    J Here's the thing.  Say I want to build and run a UNIX application on a VMSI system without change - and there are case sensitive aspects to it.  ThisRH gives you that capability.  Or you are running a UNIX shell (or GUI) and* want it to act exactly like a UNIX system.  K For typical VMS users, I would expect "$ set proc/parse=extended" to be the  most they use.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:46:56 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <YYC%7.563$5Y4.14922@news.cpqcorp.net>   JD wrote in message ...r >iA >"Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in messageD- >news:T6m%7.536$5Y4.14803@news.cpqcorp.net...  >>$ >> Don Chiasson wrote in message ... >> >= >> >"John J Francini" <francini1026@mac.com> wrote in messagewI >> >news:francini1026-ya02408000R1001020302190001@news.ne.mediaone.net...r >> ><<snip>>J >> >> When I was a first-time C user, I was bit by case sensitivity.  This >> >wasDC >> >> back in 1981, doing C (using a non-DEC Whitesmiths' compiler)uE >> >> on a VAX/VMS system.  C's case sensitivity felt ludicrously out E >> >> of place after years of using case-folding OSes and programming1 >> >> languages. >> >>bE >> >> I felt that it introduced an entire new class of coding errors,t@ >> >> simply due to the fact that variable and keyword case were >> >> required to match. >> >>g >> ><<snip>>? >> >> Consequently, I consider languages, command interpreters,CG >> >> filesystems, and OSes that inflict "the tyrrany of case-matching" @ >> >> on their users or developers to be _fundamentally_ broken.@ >> >> Period.  I have yet to see _any_ argument over the past 21, >> >> years that has convinced me otherwise. >> ><<snip.>I >> >        I recall a friend remarking (or did I see it on AFC?) about apI >> >prof who was very much in favour of using case in variable names. OnetJ >> >student felt this was ridiculous and wrote programs using one word forK >> >all variables, just changing the case. For example if he used his name,nL >> >say Dave, this would allow 2^4 = 16 variables. How's that for increasing >> >the chance of error? >> >            Don" >> >>I >> Better yet, I was porting a widely used certification test suite whiche hadoH >> two global routines defined called "delete" and "Delete" - think that theyH >> did the same thing?  Think that all the places it was used called theF >> routine it thought it was calling?  Nope.  And because there was noJ >> prototype of the routine, it didn't even notice that there were not the >> right number of arguments.e >>G >> Only found because the way I was compiling it was not preserving thei case,l! >> and the linker didn't like it.i >>J >The ONLY time that I EVER had problems with case sensitivity was WAY BACKK >WHEN, in my inexperience, that I had mostly only used DEC OSes that didn'tv >properly distinguish. > E >Once one has a little more experience (or never been tainted by casen insensitivity),f4 >the issue of case sensitivity is easy to deal with. >eG >Being caught unaware (going either direction) is where troubles occur.o WhenJ >I converted from a case insensitive to case sensitive environment, it was easy.  >b    D Ah.  You are god like, and never make mistakes.  The "Delete" versusK "delete" and the accidental calling of the wrong one was something that WAS J NOT FOUND ON ANY UNIX SYSTEM.  And the test was compiled and run on prettyD much ALL of them.   The problem was found by a system which was caseA insensitive - but the problem itself silently existed on ALL UNIX.K implementations.  This was a simple-shit stupid error that SHOULD have been F able to be detected at the language level.  But it wasn't, because theI language allowed something REALLY REALLY STUPID to be done.  And this may3G not have even been a single programmers mistake.  The odds are that the I modules that defined the routines were written by different programmers - L who may not even been aware of the fact that there was another definition of# the same name, with different case.,  C >We all tend to get used to what we know.   I have gone through the-
 transition to-? >modern systems also, and it isn't that difficult to deal with.= >oK >The amazing thing is that when case insensitivity is implemented, it tends  toK >be provincially English limited, and that doesn't really do justice to the  userI >base.   Given that case sensitivity AT THE FILESYSTEM LEVEL handles both C >the provincial UC/LC insensitive case AND the case sensitive case.y > = >AGAIN:   Filenames are NOT necessarily english proper nouns.  >o    G And you are being very programmer (high priest) centric to believe that L because something isn't "easy" it's the wrong thing to do.  A non-programmerJ is more likely to want the name to match despite differences in the "case"K according to whatever the language-specific rules are for matching.  I haveaK difficulty in how this function is placed outside of the access routines touK the filesystem - unless we can go back and undo the last 3 decades or so of H programming practices, and get all applications and scripts to transformK names provided by humans, into some normalized form, prior to submission tom the filesystem routines.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:47:41 GMT 3 From: Christopher Stacy <cstacy@spacy.Boston.MA.US>s: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC. Message-ID: <ubsg0bwzm.fsf@spacy.Boston.MA.US>  H >>>>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 02:43:44 GMT, Robert Bonomi ("Robert") writes:G  >> I suppose I must lack experience relative to you: please elaborate. 9  Robert> Not that it really matters, but you are correct.0  @ We'll just have to to disagree on that, I'm afraid, and continueA with the specific discussion about this feature I'm referring to.r  W  Robert> Specifically, and to wit: DEC-2060 users coming from a university environment iX  Robert> to a commercial time-share service. Same CPU, same O/S (modulo a few minor rev.X  Robert> levels).  Where I was the one fielding their irate phone calls, when the systemW  Robert> 'lost' things for them.  Specific names aren't relevant, as the University is aX  Robert> now using different gear (no surprise), and the time-share service is no longerV  Robert> in that business.   The 'learning curve' tended to be around 4-6 months, withS  Robert> 10-15 panic-calls/complaints per customer.  Admittedly, the last 1/3 or soeT  Robert> of them were along the lines of "did I just scr*w myself again?" as opposedG  Robert> to the "your system ate my data -- get it back!" type demands.   ( The point that I called you on was this:  D   robert> Limiting EXPUNGE (or equivalent) to user-initiated *only*,F   robert> is a 'luxury'.  It requires additional resources to support.A   robert> In systems of the '70s, and early '80s, the incremental-D   robert> cost _was_ "non-trivial".  A user transiting from a systemG   robert> with the luxuries to one without them -- even if the hardwareh@   robert> and O/S was the same, was in for some "rude suprises".  B The example you have provided fails to address that, because it isG about users transitioning to a system that's configured to remove theiroC files automatically, when the old system did not do that.  The factk? that the two systems were both running TOPS-20 is not relevent,sA because any operating system can be configured to randomly delete,A people's files (through a periodic batch job, or on many systems,-C by manual human "cleaning up" activity).    That's a comment on theiD policies of how the machine is configured to operate, not on whetherG the particular feature I cited in the operating system works very well.   D TOPS-20, the example that you keep citing here, can be configured toB automatically "expunge" files in various circumstances, and if youD configure it that way, it doesn't meet the critera that I specified:7 the system never expunges files except at user request.b  F  Robert> See above.  specifically files in 'DELETEd, but not EXPUNGEd'A  Robert> status for _days_ (University, ran EXPUNGE once over thesB  Robert> weekend), vs 'gone almost immediately' (service-bureau --F  Robert> system-wide EXPUNGE ran every 5-10 minutes, regular schedule,E  Robert> *no* warning).  In addition for service bureau, EXPUNGE (per @  Robert> user) ran on session logout.  Customer has two sessionsC  Robert> logged-in, and (accidentally) deletes file in one session,mE  Robert> Employee using other session -ust-happens- to log out beforea>  Robert> the guy in the first session can finish typing in theD  Robert> UNDELETE.  guess what??  wanna take bets on who they blame?  D Your other example above is, again, mostly about the policies chosen@ for a system: when will it automatically expunge files (which isC specifically not what I was talking about).  But the second half ofrB it could sort of be construed to address the question.  Let me get> this: you have more than one person simultaneously logged into< the same user account, and they are sabotaging each other by= deleting files out from underneath each other... and this is e? a fault in the operating system?  I don't doubt they blamed youyA in any event, but I don't see why you want to blame the OS there.n  B  >> My experience was that they'd just be out of disk space a lot,B  >> which was never a surprise on any computer back in those days,  @  Robert> In a service bureau environment, that was simply not anC  Robert> "acceptable answer".  On the other hand, having 'more thans>  Robert> was needed' was an un-necessary expense.  and, as youB  Robert> should be aware, disk was *not* inexpensive.  This led toA  Robert> 'very agressive' space reclamation policies.  as well asj0  Robert> 'small time increment' storage billing.  > That is again about management policies.  You keep ignoring or@ misunderstanding what I said: experience shows that an operatingA system that never releases the file space except at user request, = works very well and does not have any surprises in that area.t  A I would agree that if you cannot afford the disk space to support A such a feature, such as a commercial service bureau in the 1970s,r? where the policy is that unrelated users are forced to secretlye= share an insufficient amount of disk space (with the supposed.? illusion that there's enough), that such a feature would not bee@ appropriate for your purposes.  On the other hand, a model used ? by many service bureaus back in those days was that the user is-> allocated their own (physical or virtual) disk drives, so that@ they can't interfere with each other.  In that case, running out> of disk space is completely acceptable: the user manages their? own disk space.  The delete/expunge feature would work out okayo under those circumstances.  C However, my experience is not about that particular scenario, whichr? seems to be the only one you're able to relate this feature to.t> I said that in my experience the feature worked out very well.@ You're claiming that it did not, but the detail of your response= shows that a significantly different feature did not work outj  very well in some circumstances.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 17:02:34 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n5ra$1v67$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  5 In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-kwut9qKrn4yF@localhost>,e. Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote:G >Well why name's Weatherall, VMS calls me 'WEATHERALL' and Solaris (or s) >our setup thereof) insists on 'weather'.   @ I think you're mixing up login name and file names. I see you're djweath as well...   -- t@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)o   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 17:47:33 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n8fl$20on$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  B In article <Ynq%7.606884$8q.48956926@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,) Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:@F >>  . Lots of characters look exactly alike, such as Latin A, Greek A,> >>    and Cyrillic A.  Imagine the possibilities for mischief.  L >Exactly - again, an instance where they should all match on look-up if they% >appear identical on the screen/page.s  K This is an issue for the user interface, not the filesystem. The appearanceeJ of file names is heavily dependent on the fonts available. For example, inD many fonts "I", "1", "l", and "|" are difficult if not impossible to= distinguish... and I have already seen malicious use of this.c  H The file system simply doesn't have the information available to resolveG this. All it can do is to provide the user interface the information itl needs to do the job.   -- e@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 17:50:17 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n8kp$20q8$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  2 In article <aDl%7.529$5Y4.14743@news.cpqcorp.net>,4 Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:J >Case preservation is fine, but once created lookup should be insensitive.K >But to do this correctly from the start, you also need to then prevent the-< >creation of both Foo.Bar and foo.bar in the same directory.   >This can't be fixed for UNIX.  F Um, yeh, sure it can. It's easy. In fact, it's already been done. UNIXG doesn't care, it lets the filesystem worry about it, and there are both H case-bashing and case-insensitive filesystems available on UNIX systems.  ' Why would you think this was a problem?e   -- i@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)t   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 17:56:23 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n907$2159$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  + In article <3C3EA01D.7B7D19D1@mediasec.de>,e4 Jan C. Vorbrggen  <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:O >Is there actually an alive human language where case differences (if they have D >the concept of case at all) routinely connote semantic differences?  4 I don't even *pronounce* polish and Polish the same.   -- n@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)w   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 17:54:41 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n8t1$213m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  G In article <a1mf03$qb7$2@bob.news.rcn.net>,  <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:l= >Note that JD does not know what a filesystem is.  He appears ) >to think that it is separate from an OS..   Well, yeh, it is.l  
 Look at this:    mongrel 1 % touch Fred mongrel 2 % ls& bootlog.txt     drvspace.bin    io.sys) command.com     fred            msdos.sysb  * MS-DOS file system on UNIX. Case smashing.  K I can also go over to a network to an NTFS filesystem from another UNIX boxu+ in house and experience case-insensitivity.s  K This is because UNIX uses layering to isolate the filesystem implementationl6 from the rest of the system. And this is a good thing.   >He also seems to thinkm= >that a filesystem design can be completely divorced from thed" >hardware the system was built on.   Pretty much, yes.3   -- a@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 18:02:47 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n9c7$2191$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  I Let's try this one again, without trying to cut-and-paste between windows  using different character sets:   * In article <3C3D6051.A826652@mediasec.de>,4 Jan C. Vorbrggen  <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote: >A2. Names should) >    - be hierarchical& >    - have a redundant representation   Elaborate on that.   >    - use soft/fuzzy matcheso  F Not unless the user has explicitly requested them. Fuzzy name matching0 makes it way too easy to specify the wrong file.  E Case-insensitive name matching is not "soft" or "fuzzy". It's just astF "hard" as case-sensitive matching. There is no possibility of two file names matching the same name.   L Case-insensitive matching is difficult in languages other than English. DoesG VMS handle a file called "JanVorbrggen.TXT" correctly? What does it do.9 with the German character "" which is "SS" in uppercase?e   -- s@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)s   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 18:04:18 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1n9f2$21aj$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  5 In article <1020110134809.7689A-100000@Ives.egh.com>,u" John Santos  <JOHN@egh.com> wrote:H >So you are arguing that the filesystem should allow files that the user% >interface won't allow you to access?<  F I think it would be better to say that if that happens, it is the user interface that is at fault.h   -- i@ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)>   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:23:03 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECB Message-ID: <b4G%7.614867$8q.49627269@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  5 "Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in message,, news:a1n8fl$20on$1@citadel.in.taronga.com...D > In article <Ynq%7.606884$8q.48956926@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,+ > Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:?H > >>  . Lots of characters look exactly alike, such as Latin A, Greek A,@ > >>    and Cyrillic A.  Imagine the possibilities for mischief. >dI > >Exactly - again, an instance where they should all match on look-up ifh they' > >appear identical on the screen/page.  >rB > This is an issue for the user interface, not the filesystem. The
 appearanceL > of file names is heavily dependent on the fonts available. For example, inF > many fonts "I", "1", "l", and "|" are difficult if not impossible to? > distinguish... and I have already seen malicious use of this.i >>J > The file system simply doesn't have the information available to resolveI > this. All it can do is to provide the user interface the information it' > needs to do the job.  E I may indeed have gotten a tad carried away on this particular point,cG especially as mixed-language file names should be fairly unusual.  I'lltB stand by the assertion that multiple representations of *the same*F presentation character (e.g., single-character and composed) should be) treated as identical on look-up, however.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:27:27 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DECA Message-ID: <j8G%7.117860$Yf.8045386@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   5 "Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in messager, news:a1n907$2159$1@citadel.in.taronga.com...- > In article <3C3EA01D.7B7D19D1@mediasec.de>,r6 > Jan C. Vorbrggen  <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de> wrote:L > >Is there actually an alive human language where case differences (if they haveF > >the concept of case at all) routinely connote semantic differences? > 6 > I don't even *pronounce* polish and Polish the same.  E The replies to Jan's question that I've seen so far seem to treat hise- inclusion of 'routinely' above as irrelevant.n   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:17:21 -0700 + From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca>t: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC, Message-ID: <3C3F2C31.DCBDD723@jetnet.ab.ca>   Peter da Silva wrote:l  M > This is because UNIX uses layering to isolate the filesystem implementation 8 > from the rest of the system. And this is a good thing. >  > >He also seems to thinkn? > >that a filesystem design can be completely divorced from thee$ > >hardware the system was built on. >  > Pretty much, yes.l >   = I got a DEC tape here... How do I make this '/' for linux? :)rB Right now all disk hardware assumes 8 bits is a byte and all media? is blocks of 2^n. That is a bit of a pain for me as am buildingt> a 12 bit computer. Do I go 8 bits or 12 bits for data? What if: I had a replica of a computer that uses a magnetic drum as main memory.> I say no! file system and computer hardware are tied together. --  % Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *a+ www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.htmlm   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 18:40:21 GMT( From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC2 Message-ID: <a1nbil$22kh$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>  M In article <V5b%7.883$Qz1.109089@news.xtra.co.nz>, AG <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote:cJ >> How do you in general determine what the uppercase form of an arbitraryG >> character is? What is the uppercase form of "/home/rne"? What aboutt2 >> about ""? Should that match a file named "SS"?  M >But... *can* you have that single character as a valid German word? Or startt >a word with it?  M I don't speak german, so I have no idea, and I'm not sure why it's important.hK You can have that character *in* a legitimate german word, and you can havee* a word in german printed in all uppercase.   --  @ Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.	                                 WWFD?  F "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" 	-- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 08:12:25 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t> Subject: Re: How to create the Flight object in DECnet Phase V3 Message-ID: <RmmKvUgiSGxO@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  _ In article <3C3D98D3.7D3650A5@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes:l >   > dir 0"flt$server <password>":: > J > If you can, please send me a copy of your opcom output that is generated > when flight tries to connect.   H    OK, I'll try that.  I have tried explicit access using my own accountH    instead of flt$server and it came back something like object unknown.&    ($flight/server=node"user passwd").  I    I'll also study your last post to see if it helps me find something one
    my system.   F    The NCP commands I tried came from a Flight 2.x kit, on OpenVMS VAXH    7.0.  They work fine after changing the VAX to Phase IV.  I've since J    tried the Flgiht 3.1 kit on the same cluster, it's working fine on the E    VAX (still Phase IV), but no luck on my Alpha running 7.2-1, wherea    I'm still using Phase V.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:32:26 +0100i, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceeds * Message-ID: <a1m7uq$iok$1@news1.xs4all.nl>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C3E5A84.149546F4@videotron.ca... > "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > > Good one that is web enabled, has scan files for known error messageshI > > (including SAN HSG80 errors) and also supports OpenVMS as a server ord > > client as well >mK >  Am I the only one to cringe at the though of a web enabled console ? Thec mereK > though of having to depend on a web server to get to the critical part ofo ther$ > machine doesn't sound right to me.  L You are not the only one! In case of emergencies I sure don't want more thanK an OpenVMS workstation and a terminal server between myself and the consoleRF port! When I configure clusters, I also have a good old VTxxx terminalL connected to that terminal server and a service defined which let me connectH to the console quickly in case the workstation fails also. Of course you/ want to use a terminal server with a flash rom.e  	 Bart Zornu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:09:08 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>E9 Subject: Re: HP admits it will kill VMS if merger suceedsa' Message-ID: <3C3EABB4.6BB45B90@aaa.com>a  2 One of my most valuable assets is an original flat4 DEC VT-cable with matching 9 pin adapters (H8571-J).1 That way, I can connect my laptop to more or lessh0 anything with an serial or MMJ port using an old. copy of Reflection-2. (The RA3000/HSZ22 is one+ exeption where you need a special cable...)t   Jan-Erik Sderholm.r   Bart Zorn wrote: > N > You are not the only one! In case of emergencies I sure don't want more thanM > an OpenVMS workstation and a terminal server between myself and the consoleoH > port! When I configure clusters, I also have a good old VTxxx terminalN > connected to that terminal server and a service defined which let me connectJ > to the console quickly in case the workstation fails also. Of course you1 > want to use a terminal server with a flash rom.e >  > Bart Zornb   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:48:18 GMTs' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>"7 Subject: Re: Huge EV7 Alpha Galaxy Cluster being built!e+ Message-ID: <3C3F341B.F136933E@pacbell.net>u  & Interesting, but read on to the part :  ?   Terry Shannon, who runs Shannon knows Compaq, tells me that atB   512CPU Open VMS Galaxy instance is highly unlikely though.Galaxy7   APMP lets VMS and its manager define instances, using B   predetermined dedicated resources as well as shared memory. In aC   32-way GS320 you can carve out four eight CPU instances, he said.s  E   VMS doesn't scale at all well beyond 10 processors, he added - so aa"   512CPU instance seems unlikely.   F I'm most interested in the last statement. I hadn't heard that, Terry.H In fact as I recall at the Diamond Forum last August, the new EV68(or 7) would scale well to ~64 CPUs.    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > D > try to do this all you windoze and unix cronies w/your junk os ... > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/10010206.htmr > * > Compaq builds biggest Alpha cluster ever >  > Ayr on a G-String ' > By Eva Glass, 10/01/2002 11:16:49 BSTe > 8 > A LASSIE FROM Compaq in Ayr gave me a bell on my cell.F > Ayr Annie - as I'll call her - tells me that the factory up there inD > bonnie Scotland has just built and tested the largest ever cluster! > using the Alpha microprocessor.k > E > The machine is being built for NoSuchAgency, and she reckons it's au > real coppa whoppa. > G > She slips me word that it could be a 1.2GHz EV7 VMS system maybe withtD > 512 CPUs per VMS Galaxy instance and say 64 instances per cluster. > G > Hey, she said the Big Q has even been flashing photos of these babiesgF > round to its select customers who it trusts - obviously we ain't one
 > of them! > F > Well - 32 processors per GS system was the limit with EV6 but things > are looking up now...i > F > And in other news, Annie told me that there are some "restructuring"; > plans set to happen in Ayr - maybe as early as next week.G > B > Wouldn't it be better if Compaq talked to the INQ to prevent theB > relentless drip, drip, drip from all these lovely ladies wearing > moleskin hats?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:29:48 +0000g% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>j/ Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monsterC8 Message-ID: <tjdt3u83s9socg9jdusjun73ko73pr69io@4ax.com>  5 On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:49:37 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  C >Well.  I truly have not even heard a rumour about any such system.@M >At present, the per-instance limit of VMS is 32 CPUs.  This is mostly due tonJ >the use of a 32-bit mask in a number of places for representing available >CPUs. >4G >The Marvel systems were designed for up to 256 CPUs (notionally with a.K >future EV8 of 1024 logical CPUs), but the physical design is not likely tor& >allow cable routing of more than 128.  A Doug Williams (Technical Director Strategy) showed some slides at ? DECUS in London back in November. Because he asked us not to beeD specific I won't but the photo showed an EV7 Marvel system which hadC booted both VMS and Tru64 within the last few days and had at leastoD 128 processors and that the photo reminded me of an older DEC-10 (ie> not the DEC-10s which were repainted DEC-20s) for some reason.E Probably the fans :) I guess you've seen one of these things close uph though.t  A Intel and Microsoft were showing pictures of IA64 systems runningiF Windows over two years ago so I can't understand why Compaq don't send* publicity pics of big EV7 systems out now.  J >So if it were VMS, you could cluster together 4 Marvel systems, each withH >128 CPUs, each running 4 instances of 32 CPUs (or 8 * 16 which would beM >better).  It would be one big honkin' machine.  Each of the 4 machines would:; >be capable of supporting 1TB of raid-5 memory.  Scary big.D  @ "Scary big" seems to fit the description I've heard (friend of aD friend type thing) from Ayr. Except that they presumably ordered twoE of the systems you postulate above for disaster tolerance and anotherbC couple for siting at GCHQ or Menwith^h^h^h^h^h^h^hsomewhere else ine
 the UK ;-)  F If we're anywhere near actual specs I expect the webcam pointing at myD trash-can to grab the evidence any day now :-) :-). That's a joke by+ the way in case any monitoring bot wonders!      -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:39:15 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y/ Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monstere3 Message-ID: <k70qj6Ate1La@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <tjdt3u83s9socg9jdusjun73ko73pr69io@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  C > Doug Williams (Technical Director Strategy) showed some slides atJA > DECUS in London back in November. Because he asked us not to bejF > specific I won't but the photo showed an EV7 Marvel system which hadE > booted both VMS and Tru64 within the last few days and had at leastiF > 128 processors and that the photo reminded me of an older DEC-10 (ie@ > not the DEC-10s which were repainted DEC-20s) for some reason.G > Probably the fans :) I guess you've seen one of these things close upn	 > though.o > C > Intel and Microsoft were showing pictures of IA64 systems runningiH > Windows over two years ago so I can't understand why Compaq don't send, > publicity pics of big EV7 systems out now.  = There is an art to deciding when to publicize a new offering.-< Of course some large customers have lengthy planning cycles,< and those are the audience for non-disclosure presentations.  > Consider the ES45, where deliveries were reportedly being made? to large customers before the public release.  If they can sell>D their entire manufacturing output (and are limited to that capacity)B without publicity, there is no reason to create demand that cannot
 be satisfied.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:14:50 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> / Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monsters, Message-ID: <3C3EE547.876B62FE@videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:@ > Consider the ES45, where deliveries were reportedly being madeA > to large customers before the public release.  If they can selleF > their entire manufacturing output (and are limited to that capacity)D > without publicity, there is no reason to create demand that cannot > be satisfied.h  I Especially for a product that Compaq needs to fail as soon as possible to  justify their move to IA64.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:16:54 -0800i* From: Dean Woodward <deanw@spam.rdrop.com>/ Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster19 Message-ID: <iss.1754.3c3f10c6.d97c3.1@mx2.east.saic.com>i  5 On Thursday 10 January 2002 03:03 pm, JF Mezei wrote:  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:C > > So if it were VMS, you could cluster together 4 Marvel systems, F > > each with 128 CPUs, each running 4 instances of 32 CPUs (or 8 * 16G > > which would be better).  It would be one big honkin' machine.  EachrB > > of the 4 machines would be capable of supporting 1TB of raid-5 > > memory.  Scary big.d > E > Or it could just be one huge cabinet with just a microvax-II inside  > to impress prople :-)   H The node name would have to be "Mazie". (IIRC; been a long time since I  read that story...)    -- i= Dean Woodward - deanw_at_spam.rdrop.com (MUNG as appropriate)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:36:57 -0500a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n/ Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monstero2 Message-ID: <5AE%7.568$5Y4.15227@news.cpqcorp.net>  K One modification to what I said.  I believe that a Marvel with more than 32aG processors would need to use hard partitions, not soft partitions.  VMSWH needs the CPU namespace to be 0-31.  That will not change until we go toJ V8.0.  So I believe you would hard partition at the 32p boundry, and could= run multiple Galaxy partitions within the 32p hard partition.i  G Of course, my contact in the gov space says the report is out to lunch.D     Alan Greig wrote in message ...o6 >On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:49:37 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"% ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:: >SD >>Well.  I truly have not even heard a rumour about any such system.K >>At present, the per-instance limit of VMS is 32 CPUs.  This is mostly due  toK >>the use of a 32-bit mask in a number of places for representing availableP >>CPUs.i >>H >>The Marvel systems were designed for up to 256 CPUs (notionally with aL >>future EV8 of 1024 logical CPUs), but the physical design is not likely to' >>allow cable routing of more than 128.r >1B >Doug Williams (Technical Director Strategy) showed some slides at@ >DECUS in London back in November. Because he asked us not to beE >specific I won't but the photo showed an EV7 Marvel system which hadrD >booted both VMS and Tru64 within the last few days and had at leastE >128 processors and that the photo reminded me of an older DEC-10 (ien? >not the DEC-10s which were repainted DEC-20s) for some reason.eF >Probably the fans :) I guess you've seen one of these things close up >though. > B >Intel and Microsoft were showing pictures of IA64 systems runningG >Windows over two years ago so I can't understand why Compaq don't sendy+ >publicity pics of big EV7 systems out now.r > K >>So if it were VMS, you could cluster together 4 Marvel systems, each with I >>128 CPUs, each running 4 instances of 32 CPUs (or 8 * 16 which would benH >>better).  It would be one big honkin' machine.  Each of the 4 machines wouldn< >>be capable of supporting 1TB of raid-5 memory.  Scary big. >hA >"Scary big" seems to fit the description I've heard (friend of alE >friend type thing) from Ayr. Except that they presumably ordered twoiF >of the systems you postulate above for disaster tolerance and anotherD >couple for siting at GCHQ or Menwith^h^h^h^h^h^h^hsomewhere else in >the UK ;-)  >rG >If we're anywhere near actual specs I expect the webcam pointing at myoE >trash-can to grab the evidence any day now :-) :-). That's a joke bye, >the way in case any monitoring bot wonders! >w >r >--  >Alan    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:33:41 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>/ Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster > Message-ID: <VlF%7.66363$Sj1.27350481@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, news:5AE%7.568$5Y4.15227@news.cpqcorp.net...J > One modification to what I said.  I believe that a Marvel with more than 32I > processors would need to use hard partitions, not soft partitions.  VMSiJ > needs the CPU namespace to be 0-31.  That will not change until we go toL > V8.0.  So I believe you would hard partition at the 32p boundry, and could? > run multiple Galaxy partitions within the 32p hard partition.  >aI > Of course, my contact in the gov space says the report is out to lunch.-  K I'd go with the Government contact in this regard. But gee, it sure is nicen4 to know that there will be an OpenVMS Version 8! ;-}   cheers,o  
 charlie matco    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:37:32 GMT09 From: Mark Iline - Info-VAX account <ivax@meng.ucl.ac.uk> 1 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Disk Services for Windows NTs1 Message-ID: <00A07E1C.D1F8DFA1.19@meng.ucl.ac.uk>e  L From:	MX%"fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br"  "Fabio Cardoso"  9-JAN-2002 12:36:40.82  0 > I never worked with this product but I believe* > it should be under SANworks portfolio of > products.t   Thanks for the reply.i  J However, having looked for it amongst the products listed on Compaq's web L pages ( http://www.compaq.com/storage/siteindex.html#software ), there's no  sign of anything comparable.  
 Oh well...     Mark   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:37:59 -0500s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e> Subject: Re: OT: Sun To Drop/Delay Intel Support For Solaris 92 Message-ID: <3BE%7.569$5Y4.15280@news.cpqcorp.net>  7 cjt wrote in message <3C3E0AC5.D16AE9B5@prodigy.net>... & >Low end Sparc workstations are cheap. >v   >Warren Spencer wrote:      
 And slow too.a     >>F >> LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie) wrote in <dAY_7.5537 >> $Oh1.46691@insync>: >>5 >> >http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-8409777.html  >> >> A quote from cnet:a >>K >> "Solaris on Intel is relatively a small part of Sun's overall business,"aF >> Kusnetzky said. "It won't have a major impact on Sun's client base. There'sg) >> not an awful lot of them using Intel."r >>F >> By delaying Solaris 9 for Intel, Kusnetzky said, Sun saves money on testing  >> and production costs. >> --a >>H >> Another example of classical bean-counter thinking; no concept of howJ >> Solaris on Intel in universities has helped fuel the Solaris-proficient< >> crowd in business now, thus influencing buying decisions. >>K >> You can delay/cancel Solaris on IA-32 now for immediate cash gain... but-L >> where will you be 5 years from now when there's no fresh crop of Solaris-J >> ites graduating into business?  Decisions like this get people promotedJ >> because it looks good on paper in the short term.  And of course, thoseH >> people are no longer around (promotions) when the ramifications (pink" >> slips) are inevitably realized. >> >> wso >> >> --  >> >> Warren Spencern* >> Senior Software Engineer (not a writer) >> The Associated Presse >>L >> ** My employer does not necessarily agree with my statements - neither do Ic >> **    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:30:00 +0100 (MET)h9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t+ Subject: question about TCPIP cluster aliase; Message-ID: <01KCYB3JCKEM8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  D With a TCPIP cluster alias, do the addresses other than the generic C address have to be routable addresses, or can they be non-routable m
 addresses?  D I'm thinking of a situation in which they outside world (behind the G router, firewall, ISP etc) sees only one address, the generic address, -A anyway.  Requests to that address are then distributed among the rG available systems participating in the TCPIP cluster.  My question is, MF as far as the outside world is concerned, does ALL communication take G place through this generic address, or does a machine-specific address 5F come into play as soon as it is decided which machine will handle the  request?  J ==========================================================================  A This reminds me that I should repeat my request for INTRODUCTORY  H VMS-specific TCPIP how-to documentation.  There are generally available C TCPIP how-to books (O'Reilly etc), but these usually assume a unix  F and/or Windows environment.  On the other hand, the documentation for F Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS usually assumes that one knows the  basics of TCP/IP.t  D I want to avoid learning the basics in another paradigm first, then E having to translate that paradigm to VMS (OK, /etc/hosts corresponds n# to...), then learn the VMS details.   H I know enough to configure my home cluster so that its IP connection to H the outside world works (with the ISP knowing nothing at all about VMS, H just providing a connection up to an ISDN router, which is connected to I my LAN on the other side), but would like to delve more into this area.  RF In particular, I would like to learn enough about DNS so that I could H manage my own DNS information (with my DNS server talking to a slave at D the ISP, perhaps) rather than have to rely on the ISP to update his 2 records manually whenever I have a change request.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 03:12:24 -0400s+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>.  Subject: Re: SCSI to IDE bridges1 Message-ID: <3C3E5818.214BE211@trailing-edge.com>c   Zane H. Healy wrote:N > Is 'Alcita' still around?  I just did a search and found their URL, but it's > no longer there.  @ Haven't found them myself, though I didn't do anything more than you did :-).  M > Based on the pricetag Glenn quoted when he brought this up over a year ago,tM > I think I find the single drive bridges more attractive since I'd only want   > to add a disk or two this way.  > You've got a good point.  The Alcita bridge would really shine? if you had many very-low-bandwidth (say 64 single- or few-speede@ CD-R'S) that you wanted hooked up simultaneously, which is whereB we were a few years (months?) ago.  I don't think it makes as much> sense today, where 24X IDE CD-R's are so common.  24X is what,6 650 Megs every 3 minutes, or 3 MBytes/Sec, so you'd be? pretty close to saturation of a 50-pin-narrow bus with a couplea of CD-R drives.c  C With hard drives, it may very well be the case that if you're goingy< with IDE that "large and cheap" dominates over all bandwidthD considerations.  But sheesh, 64 120-Gig drives on the same SCSI bus? It boggles the mind!  - >  So if you get around to trying any of themr% > I'd love to hear about the results!e  ? I'd like to find a little bit of techinical documentation (i.e.u@ "we support (or don't) disconnect") first, but in any event it's
 worth a shot!    Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:16:37 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products3 Message-ID: <waQkTJp0$Qsh@eisner.encompasserve.org>E  _ In article <3C3E6026.FDFACBA8@cablespeed.com>, Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:f  A > UDF, JFS, ext2fs, etc.  Sticking to ODS-2/ODS-5 may be good foraE > clustering, but let's say I want a better (faster) file system thatn+ > doesn't necessarily have to be clustered.c  ? DECram for OpenVMS V3.0 supports shadow sets consisting of both  magnetic and ram disks.   . http://www.compaq.com/info/SP3426/SP3426PF.PDF   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:55:58 -0500v5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>sD Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products2 Message-ID: <WRE%7.570$5Y4.15217@news.cpqcorp.net>  E Chuck McCrobie wrote in message <3C3E6026.FDFACBA8@cablespeed.com>..., >n@ >UDF, JFS, ext2fs, etc.  Sticking to ODS-2/ODS-5 may be good forD >clustering, but let's say I want a better (faster) file system thatI >doesn't necessarily have to be clustered.  Currently, its more difficult G >under VMS because I have to do a driver AND an ACP.  On Unix, I do the-A >file system driver and mount code.  Oh, and getting VMS MOUNT tonH >recognize something other than ODS-2/5 or ISO-9660 is like jumping on a >pin.e >gH >Perhaps a set of system executive logicals which point to shared imagesF >that MOUNT can load and call into to recognize on-disk-structures andI >start the appropriate ACP.  Then third party file system writers can useAI >the existing VMOUNT.EXE (SYS$MOUNT and DCL MOUNT) without having to dealn) >with tricking mount into thinking ODS-1.p >e    L The goal here, as far as I can tell, is to allow availablity, compatability,L and simple porting of UNIX applications, shells, utilities, etc.  It *isn't*K to convert the O/S into a UNIX kernel.  So I would not expect that it wouldo9 be easy to take system components and glue them onto VMS.s  L File system performance is a seperate project being worked in parallel.  TheK trick to putting a new file system on VMS is to make sure that RMS sees the I same semantics.  Otherwise, you can't use it for much.  You might as wellaE mount the disk foreign, port the filesystem code, and create a set ofeL alternate file system calls for C.  Then you can compile some UNIX utilitiesL using the new routines, which will let you see the filesystem.  But it won't be visible to things like DIR.  J >> >Although, it looks like PCI hardware driver interface (at least to the1 >> >PCI and DMA widgets) aren't that different...i >>K >> Even UNIX isn't consistant in their driver environments.  I have writtencH >> what I consider portable drivers on VMS.  The trick is to encapsulate thingsH >> such that you seperate out the OS-specifics and housekeeping from the actionL >> routines.  Using this, I routinely move graphics device drivers from UNIXI >> onto VMS by "stealing" the action routines, without worrying about ther >> UNIXisms, *or* the VMSisms. >sG >Interesting.  I was thinking of the FreeBSD / Tru64 / OpenVMS routinesnE >to access the PCI bus and to do DMA mapping.  All three have similarw3 >interfaces that could be abstracted into a driver.o >i    I The hard part about drivers, is that they tend to handle the housekeeping I and synchronization differently.  Looking at many UNIX drivers, you might-K wonder if they ever take out any synchronization locks.  On VMS you see the.F synchronization all thoughout the drivers.  The mapping and bus accessJ routines are relatively unimportant details - they can easily be hidden inK macros or subroutines.  DMA setup is a bit different (and I think better on:G Tru64) and varies a whole lot.  Other things are also a bit different - D Tru64 for instace uses a kseg mapping that allows a virtual=physicalI addressing (and they do odd address manipulation based on this) where VMStJ does not - so you can't use the VA to find or play with something you will use as a PA.  J SCO tried to create a Universal Driver Interface (UDI) as a "standard" forK drivers.  But IMHO they tried to solve world piece, and in the process camenH up with a driver style that I can't imagine anyone following.  We lookedJ seriously at supporting it as an alternative driver method - but I'm still> waiting to see anyone in the UNIX world jump on the bandwagon.  L The UDI interface tried to remove all assumptions about the environment, andG in the process made for a very strange style.  Like the assumption thatnF routines might not be able to complete before returning, so every callL contains a callback completion routine address.  Drivers look like a million little serial procedure calls.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 04:58:46 -08006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)K Subject: Strange OpenVMS NFS behaviour when accessing an OpenVMS index filee= Message-ID: <58ba0101.0201110458.22b6fe4f@posting.google.com>e   Hi,a  C I have an OpenVMS NFS Server which has a disk mounted by an OpenVMSE/ NFS client. OpenVMS v7.2-1, and UCX v5.0a ECO3.t  C I create an empty index file on the server. When I try to access it $ from the client I get the message :-   $ set def dnfs1:[scratch]  $ open/read tmp t.tu: %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[SCRATCH]T.T;1 as input> -RMS-F-PLG, error detected in file's prolog (reconstruct file)  . I can open it with no problem from the server.  ! $ set def sys$sysdevice:[scratch]  $ open/read tmp t.tt $ close tmp-  A If I now put some data into the file, I can then open it from thei client with no problem.a  $ Anybody know what could cause this ?   Thanks Andrew   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 13:38:42 -05001 From: Ignasi Palou-Rivera <palouNOSPAM@yahoo.com>wY Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:   The deml. Message-ID: <1ivzo3kka19.fsf@falstaff.mit.edu>  ( peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:P > The vast majority of Windows users don't use the excellent keyboard navigationK > tools in Windows either, and yet I am forever frustrated by their lack in 3 > other operating systems... including UNIX with X.a >   F That's non-sense. Window managers are the elements responsable for anyA window navigation, and there are plenty of them under X that have  keyboard shortcuts.    -- _ Ignasi.d   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:44:39 GMT 2 From: "Stephen Fuld" <s.fuld.pleaseremove@att.net>W Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demeI Message-ID: <bwF%7.245916$WW.13248185@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>t  9 "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in messageo1 news:20020111072003.728d6ab2.steveo@eircom.net...i$ > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:01:18 +1300& > Bruce Hoult <bruce@hoult.org> wrote: >g >oI > BH> Why is it that two (or three?) mouse buttons is the *right* number,d but K > BH> a somewhat larger number of possible modifier key combinations is tooo" > BH> many?  Where is the optimum? >iA > Simple, I can *see* the mouse buttons and *know* that they have H > something to do with pointer related actions. Three buttons is optimalG > because that's how many fingers I have available for pressing buttonsh4 > while the thumb and little finger guide the mouse.  I One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the prevalence (ono@ Windows mice at least) of some kind of scroll device (a wheel orH occasionally rocker switch).  I find these to be usefull in that I don't> have to move the mouse to the correct spot on the window, etc.   --  - Stephen Fuldf+    e-mail address disguised to prevent spama   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:08:00 +0000e8 From: Christian Bau <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The dem Tf4 Message-ID: <3C3EB97F.31EC0B75@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>   Peter da Silva wrote:o > 6 > In article <3C3A48C8.55A959E3@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>,< > Christian Bau  <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:G > > Contextual menus are usually activated by pressing the Control key.  > E > This is so much more straightforward than pressing the menu button.c  F Look, my post was motivated by someone's nonsense claim that MacOS hasG no context sensitive menus. I refuted that nonsense, you are not addings anything further.   L > > There is one situation where "contextual menu by waiting" is beneficial:I > > Use a web browser. Click on a link. Realise just before releasing thenA > > mouse button that you want to open that link in a new window.  > J > ... move the mouse half an inch, off the link. Release the select button: > and click on the link again with the right mouse button. > : > > happens, something that is impossible using a PC mouse >  > Um, I just *did* it.  E You didn't read what I posted. I started an action (mouse click) theneC modified it after starting it without cancelling it. You started antG action, cancelled it, then started another action. Different thing. NoweC if you tell me that you can change behaviour of a mouse click as in-F (press left button, change your mind, press right button, release left$ button) that is something different.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:28:14 -0800V* From: Dean Woodward <deanw@spam.rdrop.com>  Subject: Unix filesystems on VMS9 Message-ID: <iss.17e1.3c3f219d.345fb.1@mx2.west.saic.com>1  : On Friday 11 January 2002 08:55 am, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  F > same semantics.  Otherwise, you can't use it for much.  You might asE > well mount the disk foreign, port the filesystem code, and create a F > set of alternate file system calls for C.  Then you can compile someC > UNIX utilities using the new routines, which will let you see thee: > filesystem.  But it won't be visible to things like DIR.  E Someone would have to port/write 'ls', 'cd', 'cp', 'mv'... and 'man'.   H Just think- a person could 'set default sys$login' and 'cd ~' and be in H two places at once.  The trick, of course, is getting files from one fs  to the other- and back again.-  H (This message sent from a Linux desktop box via a VMS SMTP host through G an NT-based firewall... everything has it's place, though in my case I f( seem to have the places confused a bit.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:43:15 -0500d5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h$ Subject: Re: Unix filesystems on VMS2 Message-ID: <fyF%7.578$5Y4.15297@news.cpqcorp.net>  " Dean Woodward wrote in message ...; >On Friday 11 January 2002 08:55 am, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:a > G >> same semantics.  Otherwise, you can't use it for much.  You might asiF >> well mount the disk foreign, port the filesystem code, and create aG >> set of alternate file system calls for C.  Then you can compile somesD >> UNIX utilities using the new routines, which will let you see the; >> filesystem.  But it won't be visible to things like DIR.2 >nF >Someone would have to port/write 'ls', 'cd', 'cp', 'mv'... and 'man'. > H >Just think- a person could 'set default sys$login' and 'cd ~' and be inH >two places at once.  The trick, of course, is getting files from one fs >to the other- and back again. >6H >(This message sent from a Linux desktop box via a VMS SMTP host throughG >an NT-based firewall... everything has it's place, though in my case Il) >seem to have the places confused a bit.)e   Something like "exchange".  J We of course will have this very issue with Itanium.  There will be a fileJ on the ODS volume that will actually contain a FAT partition.  The "files"L inside this container file will not be visible to standard VMS utilities andK applications.  A seperate utility will allow files to be copied into/out ofu9 the container, and to be directoried, deleted, renamed...d   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:25:57 GMTy# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>d Subject: VMS ECOsu< Message-ID: <VBC%7.11856$_p.5269554@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  D What is the best way to get a CURRENT list of ECOs for (eg) VMS 7.3.  H I found the ECO directory tree, but it only lists part of the names, andL there are hundreds of them.  Several files for each ECO and several versionsH of each ECO.  I would like something like the old  "need to apply" listsI that were kept updated on DSN.  Even they suck, but they were better than>- just a list of hundreds of partial filenames.o  K What I really want is a tool that I can run on a system and it will tell me-I every current ECO that I have not yet applied and in what order I need tom' apply them (including severity levels).-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:06:50 +0000K( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS ECOst) Message-ID: <3C3EFF8A.72D37271@127.0.0.1>e   "John N." wrote: > M > What I really want is a tool that I can run on a system and it will tell megK > every current ECO that I have not yet applied and in what order I need toS) > apply them (including severity levels).d  H We've actually developed our own system that audits systems, generates a@ report and then applies en masse, in the correct order, required patches. ('Rog the patchman'!)  F But that's for Computer Sciences managed systems only, meanwhile, this	 may help:   4 http://riogrande.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/   --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:11:14 -0500r2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: VMS ECOsT* Message-ID: <3C3F0092.BA53F240@oracle.com>  , compaq offers such a service today.  I don't, know how much it costs though.  contact your, compaq openvms support people and they'll be able to fill you in.   "John N." wrote: > F > What is the best way to get a CURRENT list of ECOs for (eg) VMS 7.3. > J > I found the ECO directory tree, but it only lists part of the names, andN > there are hundreds of them.  Several files for each ECO and several versionsJ > of each ECO.  I would like something like the old  "need to apply" listsK > that were kept updated on DSN.  Even they suck, but they were better thano/ > just a list of hundreds of partial filenames.D > M > What I really want is a tool that I can run on a system and it will tell meeK > every current ECO that I have not yet applied and in what order I need toN) > apply them (including severity levels).m   -- w> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:50:20 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>- Subject: Re: VMS ECOs < Message-ID: <0RD%7.11870$_p.5347290@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  K Thanks for the link.   It does not yet have today's Cluster patch for Alpha.4 7.3, but then I would have been surprised if it had.  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messaged# news:3C3EFF8A.72D37271@127.0.0.1...r > "John N." wrote: > >m snipH > But that's for Computer Sciences managed systems only, meanwhile, this > may help:u >d6 > http://riogrande.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/ >d > --* > Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences > nclews at csc dot comd >  endsnipi   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:29:00 -0500f  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: VMS ECOsp4 Message-ID: <C2256B3E.005FA782.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  8 There is of course still an article on DSNLINK entitled:E [OpenVMS] Which ECOs Are Incorporated in Alpha V7.3 / Need to InstalloJ (One for each VAX or Alpha Version, reasonably up-to-date, but no always.)        + JNixon@cfl.rr.com on 01/11/2002 09:25:57 AMa  # Please respond to JNixon@cfl.rr.com    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:t Subject:  VMS ECOs        D What is the best way to get a CURRENT list of ECOs for (eg) VMS 7.3.  H I found the ECO directory tree, but it only lists part of the names, andL there are hundreds of them.  Several files for each ECO and several versionsH of each ECO.  I would like something like the old  "need to apply" listsI that were kept updated on DSN.  Even they suck, but they were better thano- just a list of hundreds of partial filenames.-  K What I really want is a tool that I can run on a system and it will tell meKI every current ECO that I have not yet applied and in what order I need tod' apply them (including severity levels).c   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 02:49:44 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public-- Message-ID: <877kqq11o7.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:'  D > Yep, remembered that one. And I also remember attending a computerD > show in Montreal in early 1980s where Digital had a big booth withE > "healthy" females in *wet* "digital" t-shirst handing out "digital"-F > helium filled balloons.  Outside of exhibition hall, there were many> > "digital" balloons being held by people, even in the subway.  : Ah, some one had run the memory diagnostic on them then ;)    > (MK-11 Maindec for the curious. If some one has a copy to post the first section from...) --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.i@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jan 2002 10:08:52 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)p Subject: Re: VMS resources' Message-ID: <a1mdjk$2r3$1@joe.rice.edu>c  0 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: : > http://openvms.monster.com/uJ : I look there everyday. Pretty slim pickin's in Chicago. Hope others find : better hunting...t  G Three positions in the Houston area. The first two sound like the same cD actual job posted by two agencies, since they both list the same job skill requirements:a  @   Experience with Premas, VMS, or Oracle Energy (now Novistar).   @ The third one is a position for a VMS pro in Tulsa, posted by an6 agency:  "US-TX-Houston-Open VMS Pro needed in Tulsa".  4 Other sites, such as Dice, aren't much better; e.g.:  4    http://www.dice.com/DandL/c/cxmodhou.E152-77.html     "Title: Help Desk - Telephoneg*    Skills: Windows 95/98/NT/2000, SCO Unix      Date Posted: 12/27/01    Location: Houston, TX    Area code: 713       Tax Term: Full time    Contract (W2)
    Pay: t-b-ds    Length: 6 mos+e  $    Email: resume.houston@modisit.com    Web: www.modisit.comi      Position ID: E152-77n    DICE ID: cxmodhou      Job Description:e    Telephone Help Desk Analyst6    Candidate for this position will be responsible for5    providing telephone support, high quality customerC7    support, fulfilling Network and Application requests 2    and assisting internal employees with technical3    troubleshooting issues including identification, 7    resolution, escalation, referral, and follow-up witht&    PC, Network and Application issues.    Candidate must possess:6    - 1 to 3 years applicable experience with 1-2 years9    telephone support in a large volume HelpDesk (45 callsn    per day/agent).*    - Strong working knowledge of - Windows*    95/98/NT/2000, SCO Unix (preferred), PC.    Hardware/Software and peripherals, Data and1    Telecommunication skills, VMS and Unix networkh3    services, applications (including SAP, Gateways,t5    Remote Access, Remote diagnostic tools, Tunneling,h6    Viruses, Communications software, PC configuration,9    help for DOS), Windows and memory management and first-/    line support for client/server applications.n6    - NT 4.0 Workstation: client installs, peer to peer4    networking, MS print sharing, Remote Access, File3    Sharing, account administration, user and server     manager. '    - NT 4.0 Server: server replication.t8    - Win95: client installs, peer to peer networking, MS.    print sharing, Remote Access, File Sharing.0    - Working knowledge of TCP/IP, DHCP and WINS.5    - PC Hardware/printers: ability to troubleshoot tor    the component level. 8    - PC Software: experience with Office 97 and Outlook.*    - Remedy Problem tracing system a plus.0    - Proficiency in desktop configuration/memory    management.1    - Experience administering and troubleshootings5    supporting Microsoft Exchange mail and calendaringr    systems.a7    - Experience with SAP applications, specifically end 6    user administration and navigational issues a plus.6    - Experience developing or supporting network-based&    distributed applications is a plus..    - Perform first-level problem diagnosis and7    resolution; expectation set to meet department goalsL     of 85% first call resolution.7    - Excellent written and verbal communication skills, 7    prioritize work load, work independently on multiplei9    projects/tasks, recognize and react to situations with 8    a sense of urgency, self starter, highly committed to/    providing quality customer service in a teamA    environment.u  %    Please forward resume directly to: 1    resume.houston@modisit.com and include job ID#06    E152-77 in the subject line to expedite. Candidates2    must be legally permitted to work in the United    States. Thank you."  ! They ommitted three requirements:C  "    o faster than a speeding bullet$    o more powerful than a locomotive2    o able to leap tall buildings in a single bound  @ Here's another site that needs to change their employment pages:       http://www.click2houston.com/    Click 2 Houston  I Go to the end of the home page, and select the "Build A Bigger Tomorrow. t HotJobs.com" link.   One the page that comes up:   +    http://www.click2houston.com/employment/t!    Click2Houston.com - Employmentn  G select the "click here" link on item 2 of the "FIND A JOB" link, which s8 will bring up the page for Compaq which has NO hot jobs.  J KPRC advised viewers to check out their employment pages just after airing6 the segment about the layoff of 4,000 people by Enron.    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:45:28 -0500w2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Re: VMS resources2 Message-ID: <G_B%7.561$5Y4.14922@news.cpqcorp.net>  I Monster.com sorts data this way.  We are trying to see if people use/usedIF this site since we have to pay monster.com.  I do receive resumes on aG regular basis and ask folks to post there as well and it looks like Ken * Farmers web site is a good choice as well.  K I have forwarded your responses to the person responsible for this project.    Sue     ; "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote in message:. news:Gvl%7.9832$Q06.62354@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...L > Yes, but then it only has jobs for those who live in the united states. Or  > those who are willing to move. >mL > Is it possible that Canada be included in there? I would be most greteful.9 > There is a monster.ca so a link is probably possible...r > L > I'm sure some would like to see UK, Australia, France, Sweden. Anyone else
 > on this ng?  > 
 > Regards, >d > -- > 	 > SyltremhK > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais)W@ > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address > L > "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> a crit dans le message news:) > H%i%7.516$5Y4.14611@news.cpqcorp.net...n
 > > Folks, > >aI > > If you are looking for VMS people or want to post your resume you mayh want > > to check out > > http://openvms.monster.com/t > >  > > Warm Regards,o > >i > > suee > >e > >o > >e >n >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:32:15 -0700e+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>u Subject: Re: VMSBackup to unix' Message-ID: <3C3F057F.7000206@mmaz.com>m   Ben Ransom wrote:   G >Anyone know of a utility or unix "dd" type of method to extract from a2J >VMSBackup set onto a unix system?  I've tried dd with some skip n blocks,2 >but that is wild guessing and produces only glop. >e >Here's what I get:e/ ># dd if=/dev/rmt/tapenr  of=decstuff  ibs=8192. >0+3 records in  >0+1 records out ># ># cat decstuffcD >VOL1DK1_F                 D%C          1          3HDR105JUL94F.DK1K >DK1_F 00010001000100 94187 94187 000000DECVMSBACKUP        HDR2F0819208192t >M             00C ># >k Ben,  F those are the ANSI tape hearders and if you think that is greek, what D until you get to the actual saveset data.  If you are serious about H this, you'll want to locate a program to actually read the savesets.  A 3 commerical product, called VBACKUP is available at nI http://www.bosbc.com/bbcprods.htm which also includes DCL emulators that C& prior posters were also looking for...  H If you don't want the hassle and want to 'out-source' the work, you can G get that done at: http://www.tapeconversions.com/unix_and_vax_tapes.htmc  I and lastly, if you still want to do it 'on-the-cheap' you can attempt to  H use VMSBACKUP from: http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/vms/backup.html which % is an incomplete clone but is free...e  
 Best regards,c   Barrys     >)= >TIA, and sorry for mentioning the u word on a vms newsgroup.u >-Ben Ransom
 > UC Davis >e" ps. I'd take Unix of NT any day...     -- t  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:54:38 -0500-% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>:3 Subject: VMSmail Foreign transport on another node.o, Message-ID: <3C3ED274.B0D6614B@videotron.ca>   from node VELO:1   $MAIL1 MAIL> SEND c% TO: BIKE::smtp%obinladen@al.queda.com5  O I get a complaint about SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE not found on  **VELO's** system disk. m  L Shouldn't MAIL on velo first establish a decnet connection to BIKE, create aK mail server there, and then feed it SMTP% and the internet address with the E mail server running on BIKE then activating the SMTP mailshar image ?h    N Or is mail so smart that it realises that BIKE is part of the same cluster andK figures that in a cluster everyone shares the same system disk and tries toc( activate the SMTP_MAILSHR image itself ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:58:24 +0100o= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>o7 Subject: Re: VMSmail Foreign transport on another node.-5 Message-ID: <3C3EFD90.A1E091D6@contrastmediagroep.nl>m   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > from node VELO:d >  > $MAIL- > MAIL> SEND' > TO: BIKE::smtp%obinladen@al.queda.com1 > P > I get a complaint about SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE not found on  **VELO's** system disk.   You have to use quotes:s  ' TO: BIKE::"smtp%obinladen@al.queda.com"e   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:28:23 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)y, Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha3 Message-ID: <bmcb4gbx4WR8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <cf15391e.0201100836.22835b7d@posting.google.com>, keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) writes:ev > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<c_5%7.412864$C8.30149715@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...E >> I may well not understand all the options of VMS host-based volumenO >> shadowing, then - I thought the individual volumes were private to each hostcM >> and not accessible if that host failed (which would mean you're describing O >> truly-shared devices, such as cooperating HSxs, above rather than host-baseduN >> volume shadowing, which was the specific area in question).  But if there'sL >> a way for one host of a host-based volume-shadowing pair to take over theE >> volume that had been being managed by another (failed) host (or if I >> host-based volume-shadowing allows both hosts to cooperate constantly, N >> sharing access to both volumes in the shared pair), then I stand corrected.    G > If the disks are local SCSI disks, then yes, loss of the host implieshG > loss of access to the disks.  But ever since the days of the HSC (and-@ > continuing with the HSJ on CI, HSD on DSSI, SCSI disks (or HSZ@ > controllers) on multi-host SCSI busses or SCSI hubs, or HSG FCF > controllers (or presumably raw FC disks) on FC fabrics, simultaneous& > multi-host access has been possible.  G But Keith, that is a recent development that only came in when Clusters,G came to VMS.  Clustering is far too recent for Bill Todd, because he is  set on Unix-time.C  E Don't tell him that there are newer VMS machines since the 11/780 :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 08:48:43 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris)I, Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0201110848.387f212d@posting.google.com>   t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<H66%7.593111$8q.48054207@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...J > I believe FC distance-extender mechanisms (i.e., FC-over-something-else)1 > are also available, but don't know any details.3  C For these needs, Compaq has been working with a company called CNT,lC who make hardware which allows FC links to be extended over various B media, including GbE, ATM, DS-3 (T3) and E3, and IP networks.  SeeE http://www.cnt.com/products/solutions/san_over_wan.asp for more info.s? ---------------------------------------------------------------m? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on:'> Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 08:55:52 -08001 From: keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) , Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alpha= Message-ID: <cf15391e.0201110855.659fcd2f@posting.google.com>   v keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message news:<cf15391e.0201100836.22835b7d@posting.google.com>...G > If the disks are local SCSI disks, then yes, loss of the host impliesgG > loss of access to the disks.  But ever since the days of the HSC (andi@ > continuing with the HSJ on CI, HSD on DSSI, SCSI disks (or HSZ@ > controllers) on multi-host SCSI busses or SCSI hubs, or HSG FCF > controllers (or presumably raw FC disks) on FC fabrics, simultaneous& > multi-host access has been possible.  A I'm sure Bill is quite aware of this stuff, and I apologize if myhC posting came across as being condescending or if it seemed to implytC that his knowledge was out-of-date.  I have a great deal of respectr$ for Bill's knowledge and experience.? --------------------------------------------------------------- ? Keith Parris | parris at encompasserve dot org | Consulting on: > Clusters, Disaster Tolerance, Performance, I/O, Storage & SANs   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:48:14 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>, Subject: Re: what is future of VMS and alphaC Message-ID: <yzF%7.227294$m05.19617940@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>@  > "Keith Parris" <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message7 news:cf15391e.0201110855.659fcd2f@posting.google.com...o> > keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com (Keith Parris) wrote in message9 news:<cf15391e.0201100836.22835b7d@posting.google.com>...0I > > If the disks are local SCSI disks, then yes, loss of the host impliesmI > > loss of access to the disks.  But ever since the days of the HSC (anddB > > continuing with the HSJ on CI, HSD on DSSI, SCSI disks (or HSZB > > controllers) on multi-host SCSI busses or SCSI hubs, or HSG FCH > > controllers (or presumably raw FC disks) on FC fabrics, simultaneous( > > multi-host access has been possible. >SC > I'm sure Bill is quite aware of this stuff, and I apologize if my E > posting came across as being condescending or if it seemed to implysE > that his knowledge was out-of-date.  I have a great deal of respectr& > for Bill's knowledge and experience.  I Thanks, and likewise.  Your post was not at all condescending - Larry waseI just being a bit of an asshole.  I am indeed familiar with the mechanismscJ VMS has used since 1983 to support direct, concurrent access to storage byK multiple hosts, but was not aware that host-based volume-shadowing could behD used with them to handle shared storage as well as to handle storageK connected privately to individual hosts and exported by them to the rest ofdJ the cluster (though in retrospect I probably should have realized that theE way all this is layered made that not only useful but likely the mostt! straight-forward implementation).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 02:26:06 -0500n( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?-, Message-ID: <3C3E938E.3000702@tsoft-inc.com>   Kenneth H. Fairfield wrote:.    M >     I get soooo tired of that excuse, and from someone familiar enough withq' > VMS to know better.  Shame on you JF!<     Appropriate!    N >     Again, people are very smart and creative, and they learn to work aroundK > these problems to the point they (their business) can live with them, buthJ > I don't count that the same as being "stable" or "mature" enough.  YMMV.  F No, if they were truly smart, they would look for better alternatives.     Just some notso-smart monkeys.     Dave   -- b4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 03:00:03 -0800" From: arakis99pl@yahoo.com (Piotr)1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?s= Message-ID: <c6ca6a74.0201110300.6be9b596@posting.google.com>h  v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20020108114940.22496.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>...1 > What I really hope if this merger continues is:- > 2 > OpenVMS as part of Agilent strategy of business. > + > Should be good  to see Agilent industrialm) > automation solutions based in OpenVMS. t > 4 > Of course there are the non-industrial automation 1 > solutions. Should OpenVMS become an independente- > software company connected to HP+Agilent ? s >  > Other topic:  Oracle RDB ! > ' > The company didnt renew the corporate 2 > support contract for this product because Oracle+ > wanted exorbitant prices in the contract.o  ? On June 29, shortly after Compaq announced plans to consolidateSE Compaq's entire 64-bit server family on the Itanium architecture from;C Intel, I wrote to you regarding Oracle Rdb, Oracle CODASYL DBMS andT@ the Itanium Processor Family. At that time, I said we would work@ closely with Compaq and our customers to determine the best path: forward for Rdb. I am writing to you now with an update on9 developments regarding a port of Rdb and DBMS to Itanium.t  F From our discussions with you, our customers, over the past months, itC is clear that many of you are very interested in seeing Oracle Rdb,yA Oracle CODASYL DBMS and Oracle9i available on OpenVMS on Itanium.i  E As a result of this interest, Juan Jones, Oracle's Vice President fort@ the Systems Platforms Division, recently, released the following
 statement:  B Oracle and Compaq have a long and successful history of delivering> enterprise solutions to our OpenVMS customers. In July, OracleD released Rdb 7.1 for OpenVMS. In September, Oracle9i for OpenVMS wasF released. Given Compaq's recent announcement to consolidate its 64-bitF servers on the Itanium Processor Family (tm), Oracle's current plan is@ to team with Compaq and work toward a delivery of Oracle Rdb andC Oracle9i for OpenVMS on IPF based upon Compaq's current engineeringl roadmap.  F Consistent with this direction we have developed a preliminary projectC plan for our porting activities for both Rdb and CODASYL DBMS. ThisnA preliminary plan was developed with the assistance of the OpenVMS > Engineering Group at Compaq. This plan is based on the current( delivery dates provided to us by Compaq.   Highlights of the plan include:t  D  ... By early next year, Compaq will provide us with cross compilers? to allow us to begin initial testing of our code in the Itaniume environment.  tA    In 2003, Compaq will deliver to us and their other partners antC early version of OpenVMS for Itanium that will allow us to complete/: the port and begin testing of Rdb in this new environment.  l?    In 2004, Compaq will deliver the first production release ofe OpenVMS on Itanium.u  o  @ Oracle normally ships supported versions of Rdb and CODASYL DBMSD within 90 days of Compaq's production release date for new operatingA systems and processors. Assuming Compaq delivers Itanium softwarenE according to their announced schedule and that this software performseD as expected, we will deliver the first production release of Rdb andF CODASYL DBMS for Itanium within 90 days of Compaq's production release date for OpenVMS on Itanium.  E These are still early days and Compaq's plans and road maps are stilltD evolving. We expect to learn more as we and Compaq progress with our? respective porting efforts. In the meantime we will continue too0 enhance and improve Rdb on the OpenVMS platform.  
 Best Regards,i Kevin Duffyt Oracle Rdb Development Director   e > 0 > I really think Oracle wants to extinguish RDB.- > just avoiding people to use it, because of e > its price....  > , > So, I believe a new database should become1 > the standard for OpenVMS: Cach? Mimer, other...u > 	 > Regardsx >  > FC d   >  >  > =====l > =========================h > =t > F?io dos Santos Cardoso  > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilh > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > =========================e > =o > 4 >                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?( > Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!# > http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/C   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:05:32 -0500i% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> 1 Subject: Re: What is the future of VMS and Alpha?2, Message-ID: <3C3ED501.8D96660D@videotron.ca>   Piotr wrote:A > On June 29, shortly after Compaq announced plans to consolidatewG > Compaq's entire 64-bit server family on the Itanium architecture froma > Intel,  L The correct word would be "move" instead of consolidate.  Compaq had all itsN 64 bit  OS's consolidated on Alpha and it is moving them to IA64, with Windows+ having been the first off to get off Alpha.-  H > servers on the Itanium Processor Family (tm), Oracle's current plan isB > to team with Compaq and work toward a delivery of Oracle Rdb andE > Oracle9i for OpenVMS on IPF based upon Compaq's current engineeringa
 > roadmap.  L This is not bad news. I don't really see this as "good" news since it simplyJ marks status quo: you will continue to support VMS. It would have been the3 omission of the port that would have been bad news.w  L i.e. nothing to gain by porting to IA64, but lots to lose by not porting it.  5 In other words, the port to IA64 is a necessary evil.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:06:09 +0000,% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o+ Subject: Re: who else got the VMS brochure?r8 Message-ID: <p8at3u8dstj8b02t7961om8r7bt9afvh42@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:05:08 GMT, Simon Clubley : <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote:  5 >On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 17:37:58 +0100 (MET), in articleeG ><01KCVJ68XDG88ZEGIP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig wrote:  >>M >>> I got it and I'm not a customer.  Maybe Compaq used the Encompass mailingr	 >>> list.e >> >cK >DECUS only have my home address and I got this at work. I wonder if it wasi& >sent to people on Sue's mailing list.  B They did. It's very nice but sending literature only to people who0 have explicitly registered is hyper-restrictive.     -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jan 2002 06:33:27 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o+ Subject: Re: who else got the VMS brochure?-3 Message-ID: <HmirAQ1EXFnG@eisner.encompasserve.org>B  ` In article <p8at3u8dstj8b02t7961om8r7bt9afvh42@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:1 > On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:05:08 GMT, Simon Clubley < > <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote: > 6 >>On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 17:37:58 +0100 (MET), in articleH >><01KCVJ68XDG88ZEGIP@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig wrote: >>>tN >>>> I got it and I'm not a customer.  Maybe Compaq used the Encompass mailing
 >>>> list. >>># >>L >>DECUS only have my home address and I got this at work. I wonder if it was' >>sent to people on Sue's mailing list.  > D > They did. It's very nice but sending literature only to people who2 > have explicitly registered is hyper-restrictive.  1 Please send yours along to somebody who needs it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:19:59 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a$ Subject: Re: Windows version of DCL?0 Message-ID: <00A07DF8.D793DB89@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <3C3E428C.EBFD5695@rtfmcsi.com>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:
 >RM wrote: >-; >> Is there a version of DCL that will run on a Windows PC?c >e0 >http://www.advsyscon.com/products/xlnt/xlnt.asp >yF >XLNT was originally billed as "DCL on WinNT and Win9x".  It has since@ >grown into something slightly different but still very familiarB >looking.  Another alternative that will seem familiar is WinBatchI >[http://www.winbatch.com]; although it is not explicitly DCL on Windows,aH >it is still very easy to use and will seem very DCL-like in appearance.    @ So, now you're a sleazy advertising pawn of that *organization*?  3 Don't promote crap here that doesn't foot the bill.7   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesA   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:11:43 +0100u= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>h Subject: Re: x25 AND set hostb5 Message-ID: <3C3E9E3F.8588E09E@contrastmediagroep.nl>    pat saunders wrote:  >  > hi,h: >   When I type the command : SET HOST /X29 /DTE:<ADDRESS>) >   I get the error : No lines available.   6 You cannot use /X29 and /DTE together. The command is:   $ set host/x29 <dte-address>   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:26:39 +0100 (MET)t& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: xml and OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <200201110726.IAA09376@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  K is XML useable under OpenVMS? If not, will we see this in the near furture?g   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:04:45 +0100 $ From: "Jakob Erber" <erberj@post.ch> Subject: Re: xml and OpenVMS% Message-ID: <3c3e9c9e$1@news.post.ch>u  L Why should it now be usable? You mean: Are there XML tools for VMS? Correct?    9 "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag-0 news:200201110726.IAA09376@sinet1.fom.fgan.de... > Hello, >lD > is XML useable under OpenVMS? If not, will we see this in the near furture? >e  > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 04:09:20 -0500>- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: xml and OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3C3EAB8C.312AAA1D@videotron.ca>  F > > is XML useable under OpenVMS? If not, will we see this in the near
 > furture?  D There is an XML API downloadable for VMS. Not sure about "open" VMS.  W http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/XML/download/XALAN-C_1_0-OPENVMS.ZIPw  Y gives you one of the files, so navigating at higher level will give you more information.r   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 02 10:08:00 GMTa From: jmfbahciv@aol.comeY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The     demise    ofm+ Message-ID: <a1ml2m$8pn$8@bob.news.rcn.net>l  ' In article <3C3E3F13.47E53598@ev1.net>,o-    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:  >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >> e* >> In article <3C3C1037.4ABD9256@ev1.net>,0 >>    Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote: >> > s0 >> >       [snip...]     [snip...]     [snip...] >> >( >> > ...That's why I see a lot of people: >> >coming home from the office at eight or nine at night. >> >: >> I don't understand this.  There must be an awful lot of >> meetings going on.  >> m< >Somebody has to do all the work of the people who have been >laid off... >s< Not in my experience.  Most of that work was useless anyway.@ And managers learn very quickly to not bother you with nonsense * if their groups have become lean and mean.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:07:01 +0100n3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com>cY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was Re: The demise of compa 1- Message-ID: <3C3E9D25.2D324C47@hda.hydro.com>o   Charlie Gibbs wrote: > D > In article <a1l020$2n6$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk> nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk > (Nick Maclaren) writes:d > = > >In article <a1kvm5$481g$1@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com>,l* > >bill davidsen <davidsen@tmr.com> wrote: > > J > >>  As opposed to making the same mistake again? 'Mental inertia' is theI > >>stock phrase used by bean counters when they want to hire cheap help.gI > >>Avoiding making the same mistakes repeatedly is a development processu > >>to be avoided. > >nB > >Making an original mistake is research; making a long-forgottenD > >mistake is rediscovery; making a well-known mistake is stupidity. > C > Experience is what lets you recognize your mistakes when you make 
 > them again.-  G Only a real genius is capable of learning from other people's mistakes.i  : (Which most of the time leaves me out of the running. :-()   Terjea   -- a  - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:24:57 +0000g8 From: Christian Bau <christian.bau@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>O Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The demy4 Message-ID: <3C3EBD79.DEA279D3@cbau.freeserve.co.uk>   Paul Guertin wrote:( > & > Bruce Hoult <bruce@hoult.org> wrote: > G > > All the Mac browsers I've used do "open in new window" if you clickCD > > while holding the "command" key.  Much faster than using a menu. > @ > As someone once said about shift-, option-, ctrl- and command-B > clicking, "The Mac does have a multibutton mouse, it's just that5 > Apple put all the buttons but one on the keyboard."  > D > Shift-clicking has got to be one of the least intuitive operationsC > there is. Why not have a click-while-turning-down-the-brightness-m > knob, while you're at it?   F Intuitiveness for beginners: The mouse is there to initiate an action.E There are several possible actions, mostly clicking and dragging. TherG modifier keys on the keyboard are there to modify the action. BasicallyVH the same action, but slightly different. The shift key Is Always Used ToE Change The Behaviour Of Other User Interface Elements, as you can seeaH what happened when I pressed the shift key while typing the first letterG of each word. So it is obvious that pressing the shift key might modify0 other actions as well. l  F Did you get this: The shift key on the keyboard is a modifier key thatD modifies the behaviour of other user interface elements. That is its	 purpose. C  F There is no "click-while-turning-down-the-brightness-knob" because theE brightness knob on your monitor is intended for a single purpose, and 5 overloading its functionality would be non-intuitive.s  D > If your interface uses a meta key to put the mouse in some specialA > mode, then put that key on the mouse itself, not on a unrelatedn
 > peripheral.s  E The keyboard is not an "unrelated peripheral", it is one of the threeoB essential components (from the users point of view) that make up aC modern computer: Monitor, keyboard, and mouse. All three componentsoH interact together. In some implementations, pointing device and keyboardG are even closer together, for example if you use a trackpad directly atn the keyboard, or a trackball.   ? > Apple got many things right with the MacOS interface, but theu' > shift- click thing isn't one of them.t  C Ok, you have so much more experience designing user interfaces thano anyone at Apple does.m   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 11 Jan 02 10:11:51 GMTa From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demise of compaq e+ Message-ID: <a1ml9t$8pn$9@bob.news.rcn.net>-  7 In article <20020110191957.3a7a48d1.steveo@eircom.net>,a0    Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: >On Thu, 10 Jan 02 11:21:14 GMT- >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:0 >@G >JC> Have you noticed the dearth of real SF lately?  And poorly writteneA >JC> and typeset?  And I heaved whenever I read the ones that arek! >JC> about computers and the net.  >rA >	Yes indeed, there is very little about these days. The field istE >almost (but not quite) as moribund as during the 'New Age' period ofiE >the late 70s/early 80s. I would probably be in despair if it weren't"E >for Greg Egan, Stephen Baxter and a few others, Baen putting most ofyA >Spider Robinson back in print has helped too but that's just gapkJ >filling :( Trouble is none of the modern good writers produce at anything- >like the rate of Asimov, Clarke or Heinlein.2 >5B I just want a good story written at a reading level that is higher= than kindergarten.  Maybe I'm finally growing up, but most of-> mysteries and scifi coming out are preaching at me in PC-mode.< Too many have taken those course where every word of a novel% has to have an inner, hidden meaning.c   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:47:25 +01000, From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )f7 Message-ID: <20020111074725.6aa55981.steveo@eircom.net>a  " On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:39:49 +01004 Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> wrote:  @ TM> Not _nearly_ as bad as current movies about the same things.  B 	Can you cite any examples where movies have been better than evenG quite bad books in the same genre ? I am quite sure that there are *no*tE science fiction films that improve on novels with similar topics (lett" alone the ones they are based on).   -- aH C:>WIN                                          |     Directable MirrorsN The computer obeys and wins.                    |A Better Way To Focus The SunL You lose and Bill collects.                     |  licenses available - see:J                                                 |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:44:40 -0800r2 From: "Walter Rottenkolber" <waltjr@sierratel.com>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )r+ Message-ID: <3c3f406d$2@news.sierratel.com>c  # Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote in messageo. <20020111074725.6aa55981.steveo@eircom.net>...# >On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:39:49 +0100s5 >Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> wrote:e >sA >TM> Not _nearly_ as bad as current movies about the same things.u >sC > Can you cite any examples where movies have been better than evenmH >quite bad books in the same genre ? I am quite sure that there are *no*F >science fiction films that improve on novels with similar topics (let# >alone the ones they are based on).i >PI The movie 'Contact' is much smoother and coherent than Carl Sagan's novelk( 'Contact'. Admittedly a rare occurrence.   Walter Rottenkolber    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:23:28 +0000 (UTC)i/ From: Sander Vesik <sander@haldjas.folklore.ee>fY Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )p3 Message-ID: <1010773405.750305@haldjas.folklore.ee>r  : In comp.arch Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:$ > On Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:39:49 +01006 > Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com> wrote:  B > TM> Not _nearly_ as bad as current movies about the same things.  D > 	Can you cite any examples where movies have been better than evenI > quite bad books in the same genre ? I am quite sure that there are *no*VG > science fiction films that improve on novels with similar topics (letg$ > alone the ones they are based on).  C Uhh... There actually are both good fiction movies and horribly badMD (pulp is way too good for them) fiction books on this planet - dunno about yours...   > -- 9J > C:>WIN                                          |     Directable MirrorsP > The computer obeys and wins.                    |A Better Way To Focus The SunN > You lose and Bill collects.                     |  licenses available - see:L >                                                 |   http://www.sohara.org/   --   	Sandern   +++ Out of cheese error +++t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:36:21 GMT 1 From: rsteiner@isis.visi.com (Richard C. Steiner) Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq ) 3 Message-ID: <slrna3uc55.h6i.rsteiner@isis.visi.com>e  8 In article <20020111074725.6aa55981.steveo@eircom.net>,  Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:O  C >	Can you cite any examples where movies have been better than evensH >quite bad books in the same genre ? I am quite sure that there are *no*F >science fiction films that improve on novels with similar topics (let# >alone the ones they are based on).=  H Blade Runner?  Perhaps not an improvement on the original Philip K. Dick novel, but certainly on par.   -- aM  -Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN 7                      Written online using slrn 0.9.5.4! 9                    The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.020 ************************