0 INFO-VAX	Tue, 15 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 28      Contents:8 Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium ScepticismA Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...  Advertising for OpenVMS  Re: Advertising for OpenVMS  Re: Basic setup of SAMBA.  COM startup error " Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business0 Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report- Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism 1 RE: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism 1 Re: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism C Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available & Re: Crispin's note on case sensitivity Re: DCL (F$GETQUI) ProblemP Determining DECWINDOWS window manager version (was Re: In an executable, how do 9 Difference between platform kit and operating system kit. A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? ' DVD Campus distribution (when and how)? P Re: Evidence of external help required for a VMS reboot - was: Re: 17 years and K Re: Films and Books. [was Re: Younger recruits versus experiencedveterans ]  Re: FTP Success/Failure?7 Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ( Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, Re: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, RE: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, RE: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTLP Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable P Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? $ linux drivers for hz70 storage array Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese1 Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths 1 Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths 6 Movement towards warranties for open source products ?: Re: Movement towards warranties for open source products ?& Multiple identifiers in SUBSYSTEM ace?* Re: Multiple identifiers in SUBSYSTEM ace? Re: Natural language interfaces  Re: Natural language interfaces P Re: Natural language interfaces - was:Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veP Re: Natural language interfaces - was:Re: Younger recruits versus experienced ve( Re: Northernlight to close public access( Re: Northernlight to close public access off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: OpenVMS advertisement  Re: OpenVMS advertisement  Re: OpenVMS advertisement  Re: Oracle Migration Re: Oracle Migration' Re: Oracle RDB - SQLNet   Documentation + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + RE: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?  Prods in the Hobbyist kit. Re: Prods in the Hobbyist kit. Re: Prods in the Hobbyist kit.  segmented key vs duplicated data Re: Selling VMS licenses Re: Selling VMS licenses/ Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions / Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions / Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions + Re: TCPIP io status blocks on 64 bit alphas  tuning to fix slow file delete? # Re: tuning to fix slow file delete? # Re: tuning to fix slow file delete? # Re: tuning to fix slow file delete? # Re: tuning to fix slow file delete? " Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public/ When do the HP Shareholders vote on the merger?  Re: xml and OpenVMS F Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The demF Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The dem9 Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha 9 Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha 5 [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:35:00 -0500   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.comA Subject: Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism 4 Message-ID: <C2256B42.00602E4C.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   From the article: J "Compaq: Gartner has inflated the OpenVMS engineering cost for the port byO 500%, with the implication being that we will not do the port because it is two  costly."  C I would have figured that 500% was "five costly," not "two costly."  (Probability Factor: 0.too)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:10:24 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> J Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...8 Message-ID: <lga84usm7tf3jk45ekppmatf3s7i9df3eg@4ax.com>  E On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:29:56 GMT, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote:     H >Just last night I was re-booting an Alphaserver running OVMS 7.3.  The H >other nodes (another Alpha at 7.3 and a VAX at 7.2) decided to join it A >in re-booting too.  (LOCKMGRERR, Error detected by Lock Manager)   E There is a known LOCKMGRERR problem in at least 7.1 through 7.2-1 and F possibly 7.3 triggered by attempts to expand lockidtbl durring clusterF communication problems. Work around (from DSN) was to up min_lockidtblD to a sufficiently high value that it will never need to be increasedC dynamically. That's the only VMS Alphaserver crash we've had in the B two years since migrating from VAX and since setting min_lockidtbl we've had no repeats.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:11:29 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>   Subject: Advertising for OpenVMS> Message-ID: <RwY08.196179$pa1.54455441@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  F An  interesting 4-page brochure came in my morning newspaper today....   Page 1	 --------- / picture - computer room with racks of equipment B text -"Today's computing revolution starts deep inside the server"     Page 2	 --------- G picture - a robotic arm, with caption "The power to integrate countless  components" J text -  "What's in a server driven by a xxxx processor? The power to bringJ thousands of components together at precisely the rightplace and time. theK Power to deliver industry-leading performance and reliability on a platform G supported by the best-of-breed solutions from the world's technological J innovators. Only xxxx-based servers beliver the power of Macroprocessing."     Page 3	 --------- L picture - WAP cellphone, with caption "The flexibility to deliver customized data" I text - "What's in a server driven by a xxxx processor? The flexibility to K deliver millions of pieces of customized data all the time, everywhere. The G flexibility to choose your solution from a vast network of hardware ans F software providers. And adapt rapidly to change, scaling your businessG precisely to demand. Only xxxx-based servers deliver the flexibility of  Macroprocessing."      Page 4	 --------- J pictures of microprocessors, with captions exhorting the benefits of these
 processors    
 xxxx=Intel  J They make statements in this marketing piece that can best be described asC "The Big Lie". For those of you who don't know about this, the best L propoents of this style of marketing was Nazi Germany - repeat the lie oftenC enough and pretty soon people begin to believe it. (US presidential & campaigns come a close second though.)  B The beauty about this is that it's simple, because most people areF simpletons. No need to be precise, not facts or figures required. MostI executive and technologists (those here excepted) are quite content to be F marketed to and accept the vendor assertions without critical thought.  L And no need to make complex arguments to refute the lie - leave that to yourL competitors to do because it's more complicated and expensive to dispute the# lie than to lie in the first place.     ' ---------------------------------------   H The point of this is that Compaq could do similar advertising to capture% mindshare for OpenVMS...forget Alpha.   H "Not all operating systems are created equal" kind of theme.  They neverK have to mention what's under the hood...it could be 1000 hamsters operating I abacuses (abacii??) for all we care.......just state the value of OpenVMS L over and over. If they want to mention servers specifically, just talk about2 them as DS or GS series...forget mentioning Alpha.  G Except the beauty of this is that it's all true (or have I already been  brainwashed?).       Tongue-in-cheek  ----------------------- L Everyone has plumbing fixtures in their kitchens and bathrooms, be they fromF American Standard, Kohler, Grohe, KWC, Delta, Moen, etc..... (the userF interface). But that alone isn't the complete plumbing system, ie. theJ purification plants, reservoirs, pumps, pipelines, etc....  So just as theJ plumbing system is agnostic when it comes to what the user interface is (aK tap, toilet, showerhead), neither does an OpenVMS server care what the user 
 interface is.   L "OpenVMS - the power behind the plumbing" or "OpenVMS - the power behind the flush"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:27:30 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> $ Subject: Re: Advertising for OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3C445872.127ED656@rdrop.com>    John Smith wrote:  > ) > ---------------------------------------  > J > The point of this is that Compaq could do similar advertising to capture' > mindshare for OpenVMS...forget Alpha.  > J > "Not all operating systems are created equal" kind of theme.  They neverM > have to mention what's under the hood...it could be 1000 hamsters operating K > abacuses (abacii??) for all we care.......just state the value of OpenVMS N > over and over. If they want to mention servers specifically, just talk about4 > them as DS or GS series...forget mentioning Alpha. > I > Except the beauty of this is that it's all true (or have I already been  > brainwashed?). >  > Tongue-in-cheek  > -----------------------   H I forget the name of the author and title of the story, but I recall one; where there's a "Thinker's Institute" that designed a huge, F solve-any-problem, supercomputer they called "Mazie".  Doubters alwaysE questioned Mazie's authenticity, but were glossed over by believers.  H Mazie had engineered putting man on Mars and solved many global issues. D The Thinkers themselves were purported to have superior intellectualF skills, and lived in a quasi-religious order isolated from the rest of- society in order to better focus their minds.   G Of course, all of it was what we'd call skillful marketing- and Mazie's F CPU was whichever Thinker happened to get stuck with the day's duty ofE sitting in a little room deep inside the "machine" and coming up with % answers to the silly questions asked.    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 02:33 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) " Subject: Re: Basic setup of SAMBA.- Message-ID: <15JAN200202334618@gerg.tamu.edu>   = Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes...  }DigiDemon wrote: M }> In article <3C42A74C.FE23413D@aaa.com>, "Jan-Erik Sderholm" <aaa@aaa.com> 	 }> wrote:  }>  : }> Have you enabled plain text passwords on the Win98 box? }>   } * }Just did that with the supplied REG file. }No change.  } , }I'v also set my WIN-98 password the same as, }the one I use (for my personal account with0 }the same username) on VMS. But I don't see what }difference that could make. } 1 }I'v also seen someting about the "guest account" 0 }param in teh SMB.CONF. But I'm not sure if it's }important on VMS. } 
 }Jan-Erik.  ? You have to specify a valid account name for the guest account. B (As I recall, the account can probably be disabled via the DISUSER? flag. I think it just has to be present in the SYSUAF file. Or, B at least, it can be locked down via the CAPTIVE flag, and others.)  @ From what was in your original post, I think your problem may beB the LISTEN flag. In older versions of TCPIP Services (or UCX) thisD flag was applied to a service by default. Sometime recently, I thinkD since version 5 but it may have started with 5.1, this stopped beingE the case. So what you probably need to do is modify the definition of ' the service to include the LISTEN flag.    --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 01:57:50 -0800# From: pmartyn@csc.com (Phil Martyn)  Subject: COM startup error= Message-ID: <23088ca1.0201150157.4c7a12f6@posting.google.com>    Hello,E     a message similar to this was posted some time ago but there were  no takers. I thought I'd try. E      I'm trying to run COM (in unauthenticated mode)on an Alpha GS60e D running VMS 7.2-1 using TCPIP services (V5.0A ECO 3). Upon trying to7 start the COM server I get the following message in the + Dce$Specific:[Var.Rpc.Adm]DCE$RPCD.Err file   C (rpcd) Can't set ept object type: (0xe1281d2) invalid object (dce /  rpc)  (    BTW it's COM V1.2. Can anybody help ?   Phil Martyn.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:20:43 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> + Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business 8 Message-ID: <ius74uo9dt9ucfraod0tgtsej7t4ebpt27@4ax.com>  2 On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:51:47 +0000, Andrew Swallow. <andrew.swallow@eatspam.baesystems.com> wrote:   > 1 >One bug I am suffering from.  VMS will not write  >PC compatible floppy discs.  E Either the supported PCDISK (included with Advanced Server previously E Pathworks server but no license required for this utility) or Madgoat  freeware utility will do this.   > 0 >In the end I managed to get the binary file out- >using a PC emulating MSDOS but a simple copy 3 >to the built in floppy disc would be more natural.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:24:35 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>9 Subject: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report = Message-ID: <7JY08.33634$JF.329610@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   ' http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm   0    -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Inquirer, etc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:10:06 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report , Message-ID: <3C44626A.F10F73CA@videotron.ca>   Duane Sand wrote:  > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm  > 2 >    -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Inquirer, etc    The new piece of information is: ##6 We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMSL    for Alpha users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance releases    will continue.  ##  M In other words, VMS on Alpha will become mature in 2006, 2 years after Compaq F hopes to have an IA64 capable of running VMS in an enterprise setting.   Question to engineers:L 	Do you guys still plan on having common code base for Alpha and IA64 or has
 that been @ 	shelved now that you've had a few months to plan this project ?    K If the Alpha version lags far behind the IA64 version by the time customers N are ready/forced to go to IA64, the migration will cost customers much more in" terms of human resources and time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:25:49 -0500s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report / Message-ID: <TGZ08.40$PZ4.253@news.cpqcorp.net>   = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C44626A.F10F73CA@videotron.ca>...O >Duane Sand wrote: >>* >> http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm >>3 >>    -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Inquirer, etc  > ! >The new piece of information is:S >##c7 >We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS A >   for Alpha users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe,  Alpha-based' >maintenance releasesi >   will continue. >##o >mG >In other words, VMS on Alpha will become mature in 2006, 2 years after, CompaqG >hopes to have an IA64 capable of running VMS in an enterprise setting.e >o >Question to engineers:AI > Do you guys still plan on having common code base for Alpha and IA64 or  hass
 >that beenA > shelved now that you've had a few months to plan this project ?  >     K The problem is that every one wants dates, but if you give any date someone 
 will go nuts.   L The plan is for common source for Alpha and Itanium.  There *will* be thingsL on IPF that may go beyond the capabilities of the firmware and hardware overK time.  For instance, Itanium uses the ACPI interfaces for configuration and F power management - so perhaps one day you will see power down modes on Itanium platforms.  : But there are no planned functionality skews at this time.   >nL >If the Alpha version lags far behind the IA64 version by the time customersL >are ready/forced to go to IA64, the migration will cost customers much more in# >terms of human resources and time.t   This is NOT the plan..   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 16:28:34 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)s6 Subject: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism' Message-ID: <a21lbi$k53$2@joe.rice.edu>r  Keywords: compaq,gartner,itanium  *    http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm0    Compaq responds to Gartner Itanium scepticism  )    By Mike Magee, 15/01/2002 15:06:56 BSTn  E   "THE GARTNER GROUP, a large market research organisation, expressedeH    some doubt whether Compaq's shift to the Alpha to the Itanium productG    line would be easy. This internal Compaq document shows how the firm     rebuts the criticism.  F    It also claims that Compaq had talked to Gartner before the initialF    report was issued, yet the information it gave the analysts was not    used in the report.       See Alsoe)    Gartner warns about Compaq/HP productss  2    Response to Gartner's Research Note SPA-14-7940    Management Summaryy  B    On 20 December 2001, Gartner Group published a Research Note onI    entitled "The Future of OpenVMS" which presents a bleak assessment foroG    OpenVMS customers regarding the pending merger of HP and Compaq, andg=    specifically the move to the Itanium(tm) Processor Family.F  F    The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the draftH    copy made available to us for review and talked with Gartner directlyE    to ensure that Gartner was working from the latest information andEE    facts. The report issued ignored most of these discussions. CompaqeE    senior management will be reviewing this rebuttal with Gartner..."x  D Compaq should post their rebuttal on the Wall Street Journal and CIO	 Magazine.e  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:56:19 -0500-> From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com>: Subject: RE: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium ScepticismM Message-ID: <3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D0160268E@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM>h  7 I nice rebuttal IMHO.  It will be interesting to see=20s4 how this marketing/technical information circulates.   :) jck
 John Koska Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -"   A Member of the LexisNexis Group
 1275 BroadwayO Albany, NY  12204i USA  518-487-3255 John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.como  ) I post personal opinion only, and all theH* disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That( includes, I speak for myself only and my) views in no way represent my employer(s).i+ One should also take note of the Electronicc) Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whichC+ imposes civil and criminal liability on anye( person who intentionally intercepts "any( wire, oral or electronic communication."   > -----Original Message-----: > From: leslie@clio.rice.edu [mailto:leslie@clio.rice.edu]* > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 11:29 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi8 > Subject: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism >=20 >=20, >    http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm2 >    Compaq responds to Gartner Itanium scepticism >=20+ >    By Mike Magee, 15/01/2002 15:06:56 BST  >=20G >   "THE GARTNER GROUP, a large market research organisation, expresseds= >    some doubt whether Compaq's shift to the Alpha to the=20e > Itanium product ? >    line would be easy. This internal Compaq document shows=20h > how the firm >    rebuts the criticism. >=20B >    It also claims that Compaq had talked to Gartner before the = initialaF >    report was issued, yet the information it gave the analysts was = notc >    used in the report. =B5 >=20
 >    See Alsoe+ >    Gartner warns about Compaq/HP productsk >=204 >    Response to Gartner's Research Note SPA-14-7940 >    Management Summaryi >=20D >    On 20 December 2001, Gartner Group published a Research Note on? >    entitled "The Future of OpenVMS" which presents a bleak=20r > assessment for@ >    OpenVMS customers regarding the pending merger of HP and=20
 > Compaq, and-? >    specifically the move to the Itanium(tm) Processor Family.l >=20D >    The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the = draftt< >    copy made available to us for review and talked with=20 > Gartner directlyG >    to ensure that Gartner was working from the latest information and G >    facts. The report issued ignored most of these discussions. CompaqhG >    senior management will be reviewing this rebuttal with Gartner..."i >=20F > Compaq should post their rebuttal on the Wall Street Journal and CIO > Magazine.L >=206 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own) >=20   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:53:02 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>: Subject: Re: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism- Message-ID: <O7Z08.21413$Tq.221335@rwcrnsc54>p  6 "Jerry Leslie" <leslie@clio.rice.edu> wrote in message! news:a21lbi$k53$2@joe.rice.edu...c, >    http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm2 >    Compaq responds to Gartner Itanium scepticism >2+ >    By Mike Magee, 15/01/2002 15:06:56 BSTs >mG >   "THE GARTNER GROUP, a large market research organisation, expressed4J >    some doubt whether Compaq's shift to the Alpha to the Itanium productI >    line would be easy. This internal Compaq document shows how the firmh >    rebuts the criticism. >dH >    It also claims that Compaq had talked to Gartner before the initialH >    report was issued, yet the information it gave the analysts was not >    used in the report.   L Not surprising. After all, they are Gartner, hear them roar, in Armani Suits too loud to ignore!r  4 Plus they're ALWAYS right (Probability Factor: 0.99)   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 08:29:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)oL Subject: Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available3 Message-ID: <oqjYznGnU0wE@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B74@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: > Hello All, > I > As a fyi - the latest Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha  > is now available.s  D    Use of the Java plug-in, like use of the Netbeans release, is notA    compatable with the local MWM in VXT 2000+ software.  At leastdH    Netbeans claimed to require CDE, I didn't see anything in the Java orD    Mozilla release notes (both run fine under MWM as long as I'm not    accessing applets via Java).e  B    I wonder if anyone tested this with at least the host based MWM    before it was released.  3    SDK 1.3.1-1, Mozilla 0.9.7, VXT 2.1 (G I think).w  4    Yeah, I know, VXT are no longer supported.  Sigh.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 17:59:48 +0100K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40)h/ Subject: Re: Crispin's note on case sensitivityl! Message-ID: <GM0gu3BYo45T@gaelic>o  @ In article <3C432002.24BC53C8@gce.com>, gce <ge@gce.com> writes: [...] D > As for the examples ("Polish my shoes.") they show that English isF > excellent at supporting confusing statements or spelling. In this it > is not however totally alone.  > > > "Je suis ce que je suis parce que je suis ceux que je suis."  * Pas mal ... En plus court, on peut avoir:     "les poules du couvent couvent".   ou  4 "les fils du fermier coupent les fils de la clture"   Enjoy !!   Patrick  --O ===============================================================================NN pmoreau@ath.cena.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:56:45 GMTo4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk># Subject: Re: DCL (F$GETQUI) Problemm0 Message-ID: <3C445E7B.8D863368@blueyonder.co.uk>   Rob Young wrote: > p > In article <343f30ae.0201140649.7d29dcd1@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > >hI > > WARNING! Running any DCL queue-related command (like SHOW QUEUE, SHOW C >                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^iF > > ENTRY, etc.), will destroy your context if you are looping through+ >                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^wE > > queues, jobs, or files. Use SPAWN SHOW ENTRY, etc., to avoid this7	 > > trap!r > >c > L >         Thanks a bunch for this.  I had given up trying to figure out what" >         was whacking my context. > % >                                 Robd  E its a shame F$GETQUI doesn't have a feature like F$SEARCH's stream IDc to work around this limitation   regards  -- t Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  .  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of c! my employers or service provider.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:36:01 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>nY Subject: Determining DECWINDOWS window manager version (was Re: In an executable, how do  . Message-ID: <a210hl$su3$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message( news:a1vdn9$ja9$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk... > Hi,T >kD > Wonder if any of you guys out there can tell me how to answer this	 question?l >"G > In an X Windows application, I would like to be able to determine thee	 > currenteJ > version information for SYS$SHARE:DECW$XLIBSHR.EXE, as this will tell meI > what version of Motif is being used. Sure, I could just open up the EXEu file > andnK > read the version information from the file, but is there a better method?r  J OK. I think I am really going about this the wrong way. The application in question is the XV image viewer.a  L In versions of DECwindows which used earlier versions of Motif (<1.2.5??), aH different method is necessary under VMS. According to the code, this has something to do withH these earlier versions setting up a 'pseudo-root' window: if you do yourI root display to the standard root window, it will not be seen. This meanssK that XV for VMS is incapable of displaying on Motif version 1.2.5 and aboveh (on the root window, anyway).   L I have a compile time workaround, which retrieves the version information inF as standard a way as I could figure (if it can't reliably retrieve theI information, it defaults to using the 'old' pseudo-root method). However,l this is not ideal either:aJ     - Version string might change, rendering version parsing code useless.  K     - Root display breaks when you upgrade Motif, and you have to recompileu XVK     - Root display is not possible using older method to displays using theM newer &       Motif libraries, and vice-versa.H     - If using older method, you can't display across the network to the root window @       of another machine unless its window manager uses the same 'pseudo-root' method.s    J The ideal answer to this is to find a way to tell (under X) if the displayK is being managed by an older DECwindows windows manager and, if so, use thei pseudo_root() methodJ to find the root window ID. If this was part of the general code of XV, itL would make it possible to display to the root of a disaply, whether it was aE newer VMS workstation, an older VMS workstation or a UNIX workstationa (apologies for swearing ;).mK Although such usage would be rare, this would be the better answer, becauselF it "just works". Transparent to the user, no re-compilation necessary.  L Now...has anyone encountered a way to get this information? X based, not VMSI based. If I was running the client on a Unix machine, the only way to geti this information would9 be using X. Maybe by querying the window manager somehow?y  ! Question 130 of the X FAQ states:a  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------B Subject: 130)  How do I figure out what window manager is running?  J You can't reliably tell; whatever mechanism you could use could be spoofed in	 any case.o  K For most cases, you shouldn't care which window manager is running, so longaG as you do things in an ICCCM-conformant manner. There are some cases ine which1E particular window managers are known to do things wrong; checking forjK particular hints placed on the window by the window manager so that you cansI sidestep the problem may be appropriate in these cases. Alternatively, it  mayeL be appropriate to determine which window manager is running in order to takeI advantage of specific *added* features (such as olwm's push-pin menus) inPH order to give your program *added* functionality. Beware of usurping theJ window manager's functions by providing that functionality even when it is< missing; this surely leads to future compatibility problems.    -------------------------------- Does anyone have any ideas?o   Thanks,u	 -Malcolm.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:55:29 +0000   From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comB Subject: Difference between platform kit and operating system kit.: Message-ID: <OF389D22EA.E278CF8F-ON00256B42.005CAFB0@btyp>  K I noticed while trying to sort out my PCSI problem that each version of VMS-E has two entries when you do a PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY, a PLATFORM and an- OPERATING SYSTEM.,  G What is the difference between the two? And does it have anything to docF with VAX and ALPHA in as much as eg the PLATFORM might be the same for both, but the OS is different?   Steve Sd      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasoG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, $ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.t  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.t  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,hD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:05:39 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>:J Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?+ Message-ID: <3C43F0E1.DB7D0FF@videotron.ca>e   John McLean wrote:: > The answer (via email from Compaq's Gaitan D'Antoni) was > H > "Yes, we plan to proceed with the port of OpenVMS to IPF regardless of# > what happens with the HP merger."   N Same type of commitment as "yes we plan to continue to develop ALPHA" that was given prior to June 25.a  J Sorry, but these "we plan to" just don't have any credibility. It does notM mean that I do not believe that they will continue to downgrade VMS to run one( IA64, but would not bet any money on it.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:30:22 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>tJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?> Message-ID: <iWX08.196073$pa1.54433281@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  C An interesting article appeared today discussing the merits, from aeE high-level buyers perspective, of the various processor families. The I typical ill-informed press article IMHO, but that's generally the kind ofa: articles that most guys who sign the cheques care to read.  K http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2838406,00.htmlt  K The most notable comments in the article were (read the whole thing in youru	 browser): H a) a comment from somebody named Skip Garvin, whomever he is, discussing( Itanium vis-a-vis Alpha performance, andL b) some comments about IBM Power, "With so many software developers chargingH per CPU for their licensing fees, cutting the CPU count in half saves on software charges as well."  K Thus if Itanium will be underpowered relative to Alpha when the Alpha is norG longer made (2005-07), my TCO goes up because software licences per cpug< typically cost more than the underlying hardware horsepower.   Good one Compaq.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:32:58 -0500p/ From: "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>SJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?/ Message-ID: <u48mdqr28t04ef@corp.supernews.com>h  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C43A36A.9C8F2932@videotron.ca... > "Michael A. Foley" wrote:.E > >     In the long run, it's a better move for VMS to be ported to ai > >     commodity platform.  >  > chip != platform.hK > Right now, there is no credible information about IA64 becoming commoditys in > the short/medium term.  J     Yet it has ALOT (and I mean Sagans of $$) more marketing muscle behindJ     it than Alpha ever did or could. I'm not saying it's the better choice technically.G     If we all went with the better choice technically, we wouldn't haves Windows!J     It's the marketing you have to look at, not performance, not technical accumen.J     Intel can "afford" to spend huge amounts to MAKE it the standard. WillL     it become the standard? Who knows. But IA-64 has a better chance because:     of who is pushing it. Me, I'd rather see Sledgehammer.  K > There is indication that it will be able to outperform what Alpha will ori > could have been. >sJ > The fact that Compaq has begun to make promises/concessions/garantees toH > customers is a pretty good indication that Compaq knows very well that IA644 > will not beat Alpha's performance for a long time.  J     If performance was the only criteria, Alpha would be at the top of the heap.aL     But it's not Blanche, it's not the only criteria. Customers bought IA-32J     systems in droves over the higher performing Alpha. Why? Applications, cost,2E     etc.. Did they want higher performance? Yes. Were they willing toe     sacrifice for it? Few have.i  <     I'm not telling you anything you shouldn't already know.   mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:44:07 -0500y5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>iJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?/ Message-ID: <0YZ08.41$PZ4.295@news.cpqcorp.net>f   Bill Todd wrote in message ...+ > That leaves only selling the features andnF >>     not a whole different architecture. It's an easier sell against future >>     Sun and IBM offerings.e >e: >Let's see.  They can say "It's as slow as SPARC, but it'sJ >*industry-standard* slow", but it's not clear that this is an easier sellE >than the current situation with Alpha (which is markedly faster than  SPARC).     I SPARC the worlds best selling UNIX architecture.  Sure it's comparativelyp, "slow", and people buy them by the boatload.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:51:56 GMT=4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?- Message-ID: <0%Z08.21545$Tq.221929@rwcrnsc54>l  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message8 news:iWX08.196073$pa1.54433281@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...E > An interesting article appeared today discussing the merits, from amG > high-level buyers perspective, of the various processor families. The K > typical ill-informed press article IMHO, but that's generally the kind of.< > articles that most guys who sign the cheques care to read. >o >tK http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2838406,00.htmln >uH > The most notable comments in the article were (read the whole thing in your > browser):tA > a) a comment from somebody named Skip Garvin, whomever he is...t  L Seems to me he was at Alpha Processor, Inc (remember them?) for a while. Now back at Sector7 in Austin IIRC.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:49:31 -0500c5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>pJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?/ Message-ID: <41_08.42$PZ4.271@news.cpqcorp.net>t  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C43A36A.9C8F2932@videotron.ca>...o >hK >Furthermore, one reason VMS is good is exactly becasue it was built aroundt awA >proprietary platform and proprietary computers made with qualityW components.u >l    I Apparently you never used a Jensen (DEC2000, aka PC AXP 150).  Aside from 8 the CPU chip, about as off the shelf as you can imagine.  B >Do you seriously believe that when Compaq has to build a Wildfire
 equivalentE >with that IA64 thing that it will be a "commodity platform" ????????  >Z    J No.  I wouldn't expect that to be a "commodity" platform.  But I do expectK to see single and dual processor systems that will get as cheap as high-end/ Pentium boxes.   >mH >If VMS really wants to go "commodity", it should start to support stuff likeJ >USB because Compaq "commodity" gear won't be supporting stuff like serial ports.  L We already have shipped some early USB stuff (printer support I think).  AndJ I am working in one of my fulltime jobs to finish the KB and mouse drivers4 for X11.  Marvel systems with graphics will use USB.  B Heck, I'm hoping to be able to make multi-seat X11 work using USB.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:55:44 -0500e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>eJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?/ Message-ID: <W6_08.43$PZ4.152@news.cpqcorp.net>-  % Michael A. Foley wrote in message ...  >2" . Me, I'd rather see Sledgehammer. >.    L My only knowledge is that this product is a IA32 with 64-bit extensions.  SoL what is it's page protection scheme?  How many modes?  Does it have a "real"I console?  Or is it a BIOS based crock?  What are it's MP sync primitives?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:59:19 -0500f5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>nJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?/ Message-ID: <ha_08.44$PZ4.271@news.cpqcorp.net>t  < JF Mezei wrote in message <3C43F0E1.DB7D0FF@videotron.ca>... >John McLean wrote: ; >> The answer (via email from Compaq's Gaitan D'Antoni) was( >>I >> "Yes, we plan to proceed with the port of OpenVMS to IPF regardless of $ >> what happens with the HP merger." > K >Same type of commitment as "yes we plan to continue to develop ALPHA" thatl was. >given prior to June 25. >     J Our plans for the IPF port have not changed, and the merger did not changeG them.  The OpenVMS port is not dependent on the merger happening or noti
 happening.  K >Sorry, but these "we plan to" just don't have any credibility. It does nottK >mean that I do not believe that they will continue to downgrade VMS to runo on) >IA64, but would not bet any money on it.t  J No downgrade of VMS is planned.  Try to be somewhat objective.  OpenVMS on/ Alpha and IPF should be functionally identical.    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:16:25 +0100 (MET)s& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>0 Subject: DVD Campus distribution (when and how)?6 Message-ID: <200201150716.IAA18391@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  L I think last year at the DECUS symposium in Germany, Compaq leaders did say,G that the Campus distribution will be done by DVDs. Does anybody know at G which time this will be happen? Also, will we see a supported DVD drive : under OpenVMS early this year? Any information is welcome.   TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:10:01 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: Evidence of external help required for a VMS reboot - was: Re: 17 years and /0 Message-ID: <3C4460D7.68D9CB7F@blueyonder.co.uk>   Paul Sture wrote:= > G > In article <3C430672.ACFAB67B@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:a > > Paul Sture wrote:: > > >M   I > > > I spotted an ad on www.jobserve.co.uk just after Christmas. It saidEI > > > something like "Unix guru sought to supervise a reboot of a VAX/VMSnG > > > Alpha system tomorrow". [snigger - don't you just love agencies?]oF > > > Just a day or less of short notice work for big bucks in London. > > >gM > > > (Sorry UK readers, I didn't spot it soon enough, or I would have passed  > > > the info on.)  > > ) > > I saw it too, yeah lots of notice :-)s > >yL > > If I'd been based the other end of the M4 I might have applied. However,M > > this type of work does worry one somewhet. It might all be plain sailing, I > > or the system might be in a state where it's been running and fiddledyK > > with for so long it won't reboot to the "working" state, which can only B > > be defined by the business users in normal working conditions. > >iN > Exactly. It could have been anything from an insurance policy they hoped not > to use to a major problem. > O > John McLean mentioned in another post that he didn't like messing around withoN > the SYSMAN STARTUP files, and with good reason - we have both been initiallyO > baffled by a set of systems which use a "somewhat unusual" startup. Fine onceDB > you know what is going on, something of a nightmare before that. >   J Actually, I understand the SYSMAN startup stuff and it works quite well ifS you set it up right, much easier in a  cluster to enable/disable apps on individual.D nodes without having to manage a whole load of node specific startup files in SYS$SPECIFIC.  F Of course, you could stay with a common startup file and have nodename= specific code sprinkled throughout it, but that is messy too.S  N > Another Compaq customer here told me that this style of startup was taken toI > fresh heights at his company, with C programs used to generate the DCL.h  T well, if the input to the C program was a high level description of the requirements[ then at least this approach would reduce errors due to typos when editing systartup_vms.com P (of course, I wouldn't suggest anyone ever made a typo in systartup_vms.com:-)).   regardsA   > ___t > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandn   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  i  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of a! my employers or service provider..   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:10:59 +0010.' From: <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>aT Subject: Re: Films and Books. [was Re: Younger recruits versus experiencedveterans ]5 Message-ID: <01KD42ARDO36002G5M@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>l   Steve Spires wrote:t  I >I was going to suggest the Bond movies but then I wondered just how manyo, >people have actually READ any of the books?  N I'm glad that Steve changed the subject line.  "The demise of Compaq" subject J went so OT and even the OT went OT, and the OT OT went OT  I've just come L back from a month away and I leave info-vax to accumulate -- I hate to miss I the fun :-)  A VMSmail "pick" on "demise" gave me nearly 300 responses.   M Several others which have also transgressed through many OTs came from other n subject "picks".  = O.K., to go OnT to the OT, and to answer Steve's question :-)   M I read several of the Fleming books when I was about 15 in the '50s.  Though iL I enjoy reading Shakespeare and Dickens and other classics, I found Fleming K very heavy for that genre, a). at a young age when I was looking for light eL adventure stories and b). wanting light relief in the midst of doing UK GCE  exams.  8 My lighter authors became Charteris and Creasey (in his J goodness-knows-how-many pseudonyms).  [I hated the Roger Moore television L series of "The Saint", though I did find RM a good follow on to SC as Bond.]  I After the films appeared, I have never gone back to reading any Fleming, ,F though I keep meaning to read some of the authors who were allowed to I perpetuate the character -- Kingsley Amis, John Gardner (of Boysie Oakes d/ fame) and others including Amis' son or nephew.   K Regarding earlier issues about which is the better, the book or the film.  -L Without specific ones springing to mind, I have often found that a film can N give me better images of the characters in the book.  But I guess that we are M not talking about appropriate actors, rather the interpretation.  This often o& depends on which one sees/reads first.  N Undoubtedly, the director of a film based on a book is in the game because he N enjoyed the book.  His interpretation of the book may not be how we perceived M it, so we find his film inferior.  I have not yet seen the Fellowship of the nM Rings.  I have my own perceptions from the books and hope that the critics I wF have read also saw my expectations/interpretation, since it is highly $ acclaimed and deemed to be faithful.  N Someone earlier mentioned Grahame Greene's Brighton Rock.  I remember that as H one of the first Richard Attenborough roles -- Pinkie.  I often like to ? re-read the novel, both to enjoy it and to enjoy/remember RA's - characterisation.-  N Essentially, whether one sees the film first or reads the book first, that is L the media which gives us the initial impression.  It is understandable that ' the other media is frequently inferior.   N Another film that comes to mind when versus the book is "The Bone Collector". L I read Deaver's book before I saw the film.  The latter I enjoyed, but only F by seeing it as almost a different story.  There were so many, to me, D unnecessary changes: a). the girl copper's name, b). the sex of the G nurse/attendant/helper/, c). the sex of the student gnawed by the rats.c  N And D), the couple rescued were a grandfather and child in the film; the book I had mother and child.  With this change, the film destroyed an important _: sub-plot and destroyed the twist/twist ending of the book.  L A P.S.:  Before he wrote the Saint books, Charteris wrote about (= approx.) K three novels of a Zorro-type character.  I remember reading them, but have  H never been able to find the name of the character or any of those early  books.  Anyone?o   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:50:20 +0000i( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure? ) Message-ID: <3C44339C.B12139C8@127.0.0.1>    Simon Clubley wrote:V > In article <3C42AEA6.8B16212F@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > >,I > > FTP is *simple*. *Don't* expect the remote end to tell you the truth!f > >oL > > There are no back verified CRC checks. How do you know the block sent is# > > the same as the block received?- > I > Nic, I don't understand what you are trying to say here. This statement@F > comes across as you believe that FTP data is sent across the network? > without _any_ error checking on the contents of the FTP data.  > M > If that's what you are trying to say, then this is not correct, as although    <snip>  D Simon, while I don't disagree with what you say FTP *should* do, I'm@ speaking from experience of multiple systems, multiple software,5 multiple platforms, networks both private and public.r  H My conclusion, based on experience, was that there was no error checkingF in end to end FTP. Based on what you say, I'll modify it to "the error checking is unreliable".  J > What I do think however, is that the checksum in TCP appears to be a lot' > weaker than that available via a CRC.r   weaker === useless.y  sJ > I should also point out that link level protocols may also do additionalK > checking of the packet. In the case of Ethernet that's a CRC. In the caseiJ > of SLIP that's basically no error checking. PPP does have error checkingG > builtin, but I would need to re-read the RFC to remember the details.-  B Well here, you end up adding a CRC to a packet of rubbish, only to@ verify that the same rubbish is received at the other end! GIGO.  E My suspicion is that in peoples' haste to implement TCP software, the ? wider issue of data integrity has not been properly considered.n  H In the case of a router successfully managing to corrupt the contents ofG a packet, yet passing the CRC checking adds some weight to your beliefsnB above. VMS to IBM, we had odd problems with data integrity. We hadH another VMS box, and we saw similar corruptions. Needless to say the IBM@ blokes blamed the VMS box, but we also had DECnet CRC DAP errorsA reported by OPCOM every now and again. This was the clue, and the F customer support centre correctly diagnosed the location of the fault.F Amazingly, a day or two later the router in question went up in smoke,H literally, and the problem went away, even when the replacement arrived.  G If it's not native VMS --> VMS, I don't trust it. Perhaps what I do forrG verification is overkill, but after repeatedly being woken at 1 or 2 AMeG because 'the best network since sliced bread' can't do its job properlyAA gets a little tiring. Corrupted records was just one issue I have  encountered with FTP.   G The worrying thing for the conspiracy theorists is that something could H intercept data, change it, and the sender and recipient could be non the wiser.  H VMS gives me the scope for error checking, just one of the reasons 8 out3 of 10 cats [that expressed a preference] prefer it.t   -- l( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comh   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 09:01:11 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)@ Subject: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201150901.661eef67@posting.google.com>t  I This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentshH Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,2 Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htme    Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:17:02 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)tD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!0 Message-ID: <00A08147.00701538@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <d7791aa1.0201150901.661eef67@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:J >This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsI >Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,o3 >Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!y >s( >http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm >-! >Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"   I I get nothing but a blank in the area where I'd expect to see the text ofm< this article.  Is the link correct or is theinquirer broken? --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             .J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:19:43 +0100n9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>eD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!' Message-ID: <3C4464AF.7CDC140C@aaa.com>l  / I'v no problem right now with NS 4.74/Win-2000.r   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > * > >http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm >:K > I get nothing but a blank in the area where I'd expect to see the text of:> > this article.  Is the link correct or is theinquirer broken?   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 17:46:05 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)6D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!' Message-ID: <a21pst$r9l$1@joe.rice.edu>   > Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- (system@SendSpamHere.ORG) wrote: :sK : I get nothing but a blank in the area where I'd expect to see the text ofi> : this article.  Is the link correct or is theinquirer broken? :.     Works okay from:  D     o Lynx Version 2.8.3dev.23 on my VAXStation, running OpenVMS 7.1F       and Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V4.2 - ECO 3)       (I plan to upgrade to V5.1 shortly)e  5     o Internet Explorer 5.5/SP2 on a Windows 98SE PC.    --Jerry Leslie   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:09:03 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!- Message-ID: <3f_08.21582$Tq.222418@rwcrnsc54>   5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message47 news:d7791aa1.0201150901.661eef67@posting.google.com...eK > This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsiJ > Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,4 > Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book! > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm( >2" > Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"  J What is even more interesting is the glowing review of VMS that the ArmaniK Analysts posted on CNET some time ago (remember the OS poll on CNET wherein ? VMS garnered 350 responses, 98 percent of which were positive?)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:11:32 +0000o  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com1 Subject: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTLo: Message-ID: <OF599A6AF7.BF814ED0-ON00256B42.00484BF8@btyp>   Hi,   D Trying to install DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI and get the. following output, which I haven't seen before;   $ prod install VMS721_UPDATE  ( The following product has been selected:E     DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0          Patch (maintenance update)    Do you want to continue? [YES]    Configuration phase starting ...  J You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and for A any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependencyk
 requirements.z  9 DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0: OpenVMS V7.2-1 UPDATE V3.0, %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading? DSA0:[KITS.UPDATE_V300]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI;1wH -PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, internal error - product document has invalid product material orderinga" %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedC %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable errors	 conditionh    ) Can anyone offer any suggestions to help?r   Thanks   Steve SP      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has7G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,t$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedpK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.t  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.h  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,nD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:24:29 -0000g* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>5 Subject: Re: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL , Message-ID: <a21aia$2vl0@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  b <Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com> wrote in message news:OF599A6AF7.BF814ED0-ON00256B42.00484BF8@btyp...  F > Trying to install DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI and get the0 > following output, which I haven't seen before;  J Some kits have dependencies on the PCSI ECO level. Check you're up to date
 with them.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:51:53 -0500i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>5 Subject: RE: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL - Message-ID: <0033000047905347000002L072*@MHS>y  ) =0AThere's a prerequisite patch for PCSI-e Have you installed it?  & DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI;1  B Recursion notwithstanding, you use PCSI to install the PCSI patch. :^).   WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETs' Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:16 AMuB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET1 Subject: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL      Hi,e  D Trying to install DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI and get the. following output, which I haven't seen before;   $ prod install VMS721_UPDATE  ( The following product has been selected:E     DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0          Patch (maintenance update)    Do you want to continue? [YES]    Configuration phase starting ...  H You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product = andn for.A any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependencyI
 requirements.h  9 DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0: OpenVMS V7.2-1 UPDATE V3.0s %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading? DSA0:[KITS.UPDATE_V300]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI;1eH -PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, internal error - product document has invalid produc= t' material orderingr" %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedC %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error 	 condition     ) Can anyone offer any suggestions to help?c   Thanks   Steve So      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beH confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has=  H been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,=  $ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee i= saH not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received=  H this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the mess= age.  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.o  H Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshir= e,E RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.=    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:07:49 +0000n  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com5 Subject: RE: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTLm: Message-ID: <OF25334248.F3F3B623-ON00256B42.005881EC@btyp>   Yes I have;_   $ prod show histP ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------I PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    OPERATION   DATE AND TIMEaP ----------------------------------- ----------- ----------- --------------------P DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PCSI V1.0         Patch       Install     02-JAN-2002 12:39:53 .......s    Guess I'll have to raise a call.   Cheers   Steve Se          > WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> on 01/15/2002 03:51:53 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc: K From:      WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>, 15 January 2002, 3:51 p.m.D  , RE: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL      & There's a prerequisite patch for PCSI- Have you installed it?  & DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_PCSI-V0100--4.PCSI;1  B Recursion notwithstanding, you use PCSI to install the PCSI patch. :^)    WWWebb     -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:16 AMrB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET1 Subject: Help with error message PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL      Hi,   D Trying to install DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI and get the. following output, which I haven't seen before;   $ prod install VMS721_UPDATE  ( The following product has been selected:E     DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0          Patch (maintenance update)    Do you want to continue? [YES]    Configuration phase starting ...  J You will be asked to choose options, if any, for each selected product and forhA any products that may be installed to satisfy software dependencyi
 requirements.d  9 DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V3.0: OpenVMS V7.2-1 UPDATE V3.0e %PCSI-E-READERR, error reading? DSA0:[KITS.UPDATE_V300]DEC-AXPVMS-VMS721_UPDATE-V0300--4.PCSI;1 H -PCSI-E-INVDOCMTL, internal error - product document has invalid product material ordering " %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedC %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable errorh	 conditionh    ) Can anyone offer any suggestions to help?m   Thanks   Steve Sn      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message haslG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,r$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedpK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.n  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.e  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,oD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.      F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasoG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, $ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receiveddK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.o  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.l  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,oD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:50:14 GMTn= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) Y Subject: Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable 00 Message-ID: <00A08119.59857A4D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <15JAN02.04031567@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes::L >In a previous article, "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >-> O >->Wonder if any of you guys out there can tell me how to answer this question?u >-> H >->In an X Windows application, I would like to be able to determine the
 >->currentK >->version information for SYS$SHARE:DECW$XLIBSHR.EXE, as this will tell meeO >->what version of Motif is being used. Sure, I could just open up the EXE file P >->and read the version information from the file, but is there a better method? > F >There's a macro routine from '87 that does this. I found this in MarkE >London's "Bulletin" utility in the file ALLMACS_AXP.MAR (I still use ! >Bulletin to read this newgroup):i >f( >	.TITLE	READ_HEADER - Read Image Header >	.IDENT	/1-001/ >eB >; This subroutine returns the image identification and link time. >;
 >; Format: >;< >;   status.wlc.v = READ_HEADER( ident.wt.ds [,time.wt.ds] ) >; >; Parameters: >;) >;   ident	The image identification text.e >;, >;   time	The image link time (text format). >  >T >;   Date	By		CommentsI >;  4/10/87	D.E. Greenwood	Originally written by John Miano, 24-June-1986h5 >;				obtained from April 87 DECUS L&T Sig Newsletterd >	.LIBRARY	"SYS$LIBRARY:LIB" >a	 >	$DSCDEFe
 >	$EIHDDEF
 >	$EIHIDEF >	$SSDEF >e >; Argument pointer offsetsc >y! >	$OFFSET 4,POSITIVE,<IDENT,TIME>r > * >	.PSECT READ_HEADER, RD, NOWRT, EXE, LONG; >	.ENTRY READ_HEADER, ^M< R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R7, R8, R11 >u >d3 >	CMPL	(AP),#1 		; Make sure that there is at leasta7 >	BGEQ	ENOUGH_ARGUMENTS	;  one argument to this routine  >	MOVL	#SS$_INSFARG, R0e >	RETh >e >ENOUGH_ARGUMENTS: >a' >; Get the identification of the image.a >o= >	MOVL	@#CTL$GL_IMGHDRBF, R11	; R11 - Address of image bufferf1 >	MOVL	(R11), R6		; R6  - Address of image header  >  >	MOVL	EIHD$L_IMGIDOFF(R6), R70 >	MOVAB	(R6)[R7], R7		; R7 - Address of ID Block > 5 >	CVTBL	EIHI$T_IMGID(R7),R0	; Length of the ID stringo >	MOVL	IDENT(AP), R8( >	MOVC5	R0, <EIHI$T_IMGID+1>(R7), #32, -' >		DSC$W_LENGTH(R8), @DSC$A_POINTER(R8)C >  >	CMPL	(AP), #2e >	BGEQ	RETURN_TIME >	MOVZBL	#1, R0T >	RET  > 
 >RETURN_TIME:  >t< >; Get the time the image was linked and convert it to ASCII >.
 >	$ASCTIM_S -d >		TIMBUF=@TIME(AP), - >		TIMADR=EIHI$Q_LINKTIME(R7), >i >	RET, >END >pH >-- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madison3 >--                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu  r  G This will retreive the image ident of the image, not a shareable linked  with it. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             oJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:10:51 -0500e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>8Y Subject: Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable C/ Message-ID: <5l_08.45$PZ4.292@news.cpqcorp.net>-   Malcolm wrote in message ... >5 >nJ >Would I be correct in assuming that the OS will not give you ready access to >thislJ >information because it might reveal details that you shouldn't know about
 >execute-only. >shareable images/images?t >e >Hmmm. > J >Or is there an X Windows call to do this? Return the version of the MotifH >client libraries? Time to read the Motif manuals; maybe I've been going >around this the wrong way.../ >w    H You are mixing a number of things.  The image header will give you stuffJ that was placed into it by the build.  The information is there so that weJ can implement the ECO process - you don't want to have new images replacedK by old images for instance.  It is also handy when reporting bugs, since weS/ can identify exactly where the image came from.0  I The X Window System in its infinite forsight provides the version - it isT Version 11.   G It would have been good if it had provided for minor versions (i.e. theeK "Release 6.5"), and I would even like to have seen it return a platform andsJ graphic card specific strings - like "AlphaServer DS20 500MHz" and "3DLabsD Oxygen VX1-32" which would be nice for tagging things like benchmark results.  I The point was supposed to be that X11 is X11 is X11 until it becomes X12.tK The only things that were supposed to "change" without a version change (to-C 12) were supposed to be extensions - which you could find using the'F appropriate calls.  Bugfixes and ECO levels were not provided for.  OfH course, what has happened over time is that functional changes ("mostly"H upward compatable) in X11 and Motif have occured, and there is no way to programatically test for them.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:46:23 GMTr  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?+ Message-ID: <3C43DE40.D45F9EBC@prodigy.net>h   I give it six months.t   Jim Becker wrote:. >  > David Froble wrote:m > [snip]I > > I think the $$ issue is indicative of Encompass moving away from what # > > the Decus of old was all about.  > B > In a way you are correct, but I suspect not in the way you mean. > D > There is a very important difference between Encompass and the old< > DECUS U.S. Chapter: Encompass is an independent non-profitG > corporation. The DECUS U.S. Chapter was subsidized by Compaq, and wassE > legally a part of Compaq. This was not a unilateral decision on thea0 > part of Encompass; Compaq was behind it fully. > 6 > The case for having a membership fee goes like this:E > - Encompass has no sugar daddy. It has to pay its own way to remain,
 > solvent.H > - It takes money to deliver services. If no new money comes in, no new > services go out.F > - It became clear that Compaq and other vendors were no longer going> > to take a user group seriously if there was no cost to join.A > - While Encompass does indeed earn money from CETS, it has beenoF > virtually the only serious source of income. That's bad business, toF > depend entirely on a single event -- especially given that CETS 2001H > didn't earn as much as it could have, and given that travel & trainingD > budgets have been dropping anyway, and given that people are stillG > less willing to fly than they used to be, and given that CETS was notnE > solely an Encompass event (i.e. partnership with Compaq), and givenuD > that some other vendors have been canceling their large conference > programs entirely.> > - Only a small proportion of the DECUS membership was at theC > Sustaining level, and the Sustaining membership fee wasn't even aCF > break-even cost. The Basic membership was pure loss. In other words,C > the old fee structure offered a financial incentive to SHRINK the-G > membership. That's bad business. The new fee structure isn't going torF > make money hand over fist, but there's just enough gravy to create a- > financial incentive to GROW the membership.B >  > -- > Jim Becker- > The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/).) > Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/) 0 > ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:55:07 -0500E% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?, Message-ID: <3C43EE6A.BDDD4C66@videotron.ca>   sms@antinode.org wrote:tG >    It would be nice to get an authoratative statement on what will bea. > required to maintain a VMS Hobbyist license.  M What I would like is simply a garantee that existing hobbyist licence holders0M will be able to continue to renew with whatever number they started with.  If,G a chapter dies, former members of that chapter should not be penalised.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:03:22 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>o< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?, Message-ID: <3C43F058.B0B6FCF0@videotron.ca>   Jim Becker wrote:_H > More info to be posted shortly. Details are being worked out. The goal@ > is to have Associate status in Encompass count for the OpenVMS > Hobbyist Program.m  K The goal should be to have the Hobbyist program totally separate from DECUSn% (or whatever its name is this week). u  2 The goal should be to make it available worldwide.  K If I am going to to asked to give money, I would rather give it directly towM the DFWLUG/MONTAGAR folks who actually would be providing a service to me (as  a non-USA resident).   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 06:45:08 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)d< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?3 Message-ID: <wVZkvmUnHWlz@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  V In article <3C43C729.360C0BC7@ui.urban.org>, Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org> writes: > "Steven P. Underwood" wrote:E >> As far as I can tell, the Associate level does not qualify for ther >> Hobby license.R > H > More info to be posted shortly. Details are being worked out. The goal@ > is to have Associate status in Encompass count for the OpenVMS > Hobbyist Program.O    " Good !  (Spoken as a non-Hobbyist)   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 07:58:31 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?3 Message-ID: <rb1aX1txhNrV@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  B In article <02011421572720@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes: > J >    If they haven't been laid off yet, can the folks who handle the Tru64D > program crank up a comparable VMS program?  Failing that, is there: > anything we lowly peons can do to improve the situation?  C    The Tru64 Hobbyist license was $99, same as the regular rate fors?    Encompass membership, $20 more than the discount this month.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:51:24 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?- Message-ID: <wtW08.20943$Tq.218145@rwcrnsc54>   2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C43F058.B0B6FCF0@videotron.ca... > Jim Becker wrote:dJ > > More info to be posted shortly. Details are being worked out. The goalB > > is to have Associate status in Encompass count for the OpenVMS > > Hobbyist Program.[ >]G > The goal should be to have the Hobbyist program totally separate fromn DECUSn& > (or whatever its name is this week). > 4 > The goal should be to make it available worldwide. >pJ > If I am going to to asked to give money, I would rather give it directly toK > the DFWLUG/MONTAGAR folks who actually would be providing a service to me7 (asD > a non-USA resident).  L I am not an expert on this, but I believe the program is "owned" and managedJ by the DFWCUG, not by Encompass. I'm speaking solely for myself, not as anI Encompass Director or a member of the DFWCUG Steering Committe (Bunker off Doom Northern Annex).e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 08:00:02 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?3 Message-ID: <zexrpcmO$i2l@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  V In article <3C43BEE1.656EDE6A@ui.urban.org>, Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org> writes: > Andy Stoffel wrote:r > [snip]I >> So..... if I sign up for the "Associate" membership...... will I still / >> be eligible for the VMS Hobbyist licenses ?   > G > Yes ... except as pointed out in one of the responses, "associate" <>t
 > "member" > G > A couple of details are still being worked out. There'll be more info  > published soon.s  7    Hopefully before this deadline for the $20 discount.d   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:05:24 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?) Message-ID: <02011508052457@antinode.org>-  - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)2  E >    The Tru64 Hobbyist license was $99, same as the regular rate forhA >    Encompass membership, $20 more than the discount this month.O  E    Yes, it was, but one time only.  Successive _upgrades_ (5.0A, 5.1,-@ and 5.1A, in my case) were $40.  Is there a similar discount for@ successive years of Encompass membership?  Does the (single) VMSF Hobbyist CD-ROM provide the same volume of material as the Tru64 kit? 9 As I recall, the VMS Hobbyist CD-ROM is not free, either.   H    All I want is a low-priced package which includes up-to-date kits forB the software and firmware I need.  My desire to vote for EncompassA officers (and the like) is minimal.  With its low-cost, complete,vF frequent distributions, the Tru64 program has done a better job for me than the VMS program.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)0C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)PG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)X9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)1   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:07:58 GMTa From: dittman@dittman.neti< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?9 Message-ID: <iBX08.173$8z1.168385@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>l   sms@antinode.org wrote:'/ : From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   F :>    The Tru64 Hobbyist license was $99, same as the regular rate forB :>    Encompass membership, $20 more than the discount this month.  G :    Yes, it was, but one time only.  Successive _upgrades_ (5.0A, 5.1,iB : and 5.1A, in my case) were $40.  Is there a similar discount forB : successive years of Encompass membership?  Does the (single) VMSH : Hobbyist CD-ROM provide the same volume of material as the Tru64 kit? ; : As I recall, the VMS Hobbyist CD-ROM is not free, either.D  ; One big difference between the Tru64 Enthusiast program andc9 the OpenVMS Hobbyist program is you get a large number of-4 layered products with the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses. -- i Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.neth= Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Jan 2002 23:27:45 -0800 From: yuviz@hotmail.com (yuvi)- Subject: linux drivers for hz70 storage array = Message-ID: <74fe26e2.0201142327.2ff9eae7@posting.google.com>l  K Does anyone know if thre are drivers for HZ70 storage array linux on alpha?  any help would be appreciated.      yuvi.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:09:03 -0800e' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>s% Subject: Loading the ship with cheesee+ Message-ID: <3C44703F.8AD477BB@caltech.edu>s  1 In an effort to keep the rats on board after the e( merger (which in all likelihood will put+ the two rotting hulls on the bottom quickerr+ than you can say "Itanic") the merger plansa- provide for 55.5 Million dollars in retentions) bonuses for 17 executives (10 from HP bute- not Carly, 7 from Compaq but not Curly).  Thea2 HP folks have to hang in there 2 years to collect,) but the Compaq folk, having maybe learned_* something from their CMGI stock deal, only, have to live underwater for 1 year.  This is described here:e  P http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020115/tc/tech_compaq_hewlettpackard_dc_2.html  1 If this merger is the greatest thing since slicedt7 bread why would these already highly paid professionalss4 require additional inducement to remain?  Well, look2 no further than Jeff Lynn, who's taken a leaf from3 the Afghanis and switched sides. That is, he's gone  to Dell.  See:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/15010203.htme  ? In that article we find that an addition 575 - 55 = 520 million = dollars has been allocated to pay off another 6000 employees.a> The bigger rats get a lot more cheese: 55M/17 = 3.2M$/big rat,C but 52M/6000 is "only" 86K$/small rat.  (Not that I expect it to ben@ divided so evenly - it's always millions for the big manages and8 peanuts for anybody else.)  Presumably all these bonuses: constitute money not distributed to shareholders - a greatH argument for voting against the merger.  Bet HP and management says that9 it will be coming out of the "savings" from axing tens ofH> thousands of jobs. It's going to do wonders for company morale9 having 6K employees being paid off to remain and the rest K expected to just slog on with more work (covering for the missing masses),  ? increased job anxiety, and in all likelihood a pay cut as well.n  ? Anyway, it would be most interesting to hear Mr Lyon's take on   Compaq, HP, and the merger.t   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:15:51 -0500e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>a) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheesel/ Message-ID: <Mp_08.46$PZ4.306@news.cpqcorp.net>m  H I imagine this is the same deal as any big merger.  You identify the keyD people who you believe that the combined companies must retain to be: successful, and then you give them an incentive to remain.    @ David Mathog wrote in message <3C44703F.8AD477BB@caltech.edu>...1 >In an effort to keep the rats on board after the ) >merger (which in all likelihood will putt, >the two rotting hulls on the bottom quicker, >than you can say "Itanic") the merger plans. >provide for 55.5 Million dollars in retention* >bonuses for 17 executives (10 from HP but. >not Carly, 7 from Compaq but not Curly).  The3 >HP folks have to hang in there 2 years to collect,w* >but the Compaq folk, having maybe learned+ >something from their CMGI stock deal, only - >have to live underwater for 1 year.  This is  >described here: >EL >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020115/tc/tech_compaq_hewlettpackard_dc_2 .html  > 2 >If this merger is the greatest thing since sliced8 >bread why would these already highly paid professionals5 >require additional inducement to remain?  Well, look 3 >no further than Jeff Lynn, who's taken a leaf fromf4 >the Afghanis and switched sides. That is, he's gone >to Dell.  See:s >f( >http://www.theinquirer.net/15010203.htm >r@ >In that article we find that an addition 575 - 55 = 520 million> >dollars has been allocated to pay off another 6000 employees.? >The bigger rats get a lot more cheese: 55M/17 = 3.2M$/big rat,CD >but 52M/6000 is "only" 86K$/small rat.  (Not that I expect it to beA >divided so evenly - it's always millions for the big manages and 9 >peanuts for anybody else.)  Presumably all these bonusesa; >constitute money not distributed to shareholders - a greatUI >argument for voting against the merger.  Bet HP and management says thata: >it will be coming out of the "savings" from axing tens of? >thousands of jobs. It's going to do wonders for company moraleh: >having 6K employees being paid off to remain and the restK >expected to just slog on with more work (covering for the missing masses), @ >increased job anxiety, and in all likelihood a pay cut as well. >e? >Anyway, it would be most interesting to hear Mr Lyon's take onh >Compaq, HP, and the merger. >n	 >Regards,v >&
 >David Mathog- >mathog@caltech.edu-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:31:34 -0700e3 From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@west.raytheon.com>a) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheeseiF Message-ID: <OF572FE97F.4D7F0888-ON07256B42.00659323@rsc.raytheon.com>  D My spin on this deal is that the combined BoD is bribing the biggest< stockholders with bonuses to assure the merger goes through.   dave.c      0 In an effort to keep the rats on board after the( merger (which in all likelihood will put+ the two rotting hulls on the bottom quickerw+ than you can say "Itanic") the merger plansM- provide for 55.5 Million dollars in retention ) bonuses for 17 executives (10 from HP buts- not Carly, 7 from Compaq but not Curly).  Them2 HP folks have to hang in there 2 years to collect,) but the Compaq folk, having maybe learnede* something from their CMGI stock deal, only, have to live underwater for 1 year.  This is described here:d  P http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020115/tc/tech_compaq_hewlettpackard_dc_2.html    1 If this merger is the greatest thing since slicedi7 bread why would these already highly paid professionals 4 require additional inducement to remain?  Well, look2 no further than Jeff Lynn, who's taken a leaf from3 the Afghanis and switched sides. That is, he's gonen to Dell.  See:  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/15010203.htmh  ? In that article we find that an addition 575 - 55 = 520 millione= dollars has been allocated to pay off another 6000 employees.u> The bigger rats get a lot more cheese: 55M/17 = 3.2M$/big rat,C but 52M/6000 is "only" 86K$/small rat.  (Not that I expect it to bet@ divided so evenly - it's always millions for the big manages and8 peanuts for anybody else.)  Presumably all these bonuses: constitute money not distributed to shareholders - a greatH argument for voting against the merger.  Bet HP and management says that9 it will be coming out of the "savings" from axing tens ofr> thousands of jobs. It's going to do wonders for company morale9 having 6K employees being paid off to remain and the rest:J expected to just slog on with more work (covering for the missing masses),? increased job anxiety, and in all likelihood a pay cut as well.o  > Anyway, it would be most interesting to hear Mr Lyon's take on Compaq, HP, and the merger.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 10:26:20 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)f) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheeseU, Message-ID: <$7Ag8VBZo8Nl@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>  / In article <Mp_08.46$PZ4.306@news.cpqcorp.net>, ;     "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:h  J > I imagine this is the same deal as any big merger.  You identify the keyF > people who you believe that the combined companies must retain to be< > successful, and then you give them an incentive to remain. > N    So folks like Fred and Hoff should be in line for a few million apiece then
 I suppose :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 12:31:56 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks)s: Subject: Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths- Message-ID: <yHHxpWp6n8ET@cuebid.zko.dec.com>t  a In article <afL3Gj0bq0GG@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: _ > In article <a1vhsd$2vg$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>, David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> writes: P >> However, our vendor is telling us we should be doing it the other way around.. >> Mount the devices first, then set the path. > ? > 	I would mount, then switch.  I would also check to make sureiD > 	the path was/is available even if you had to do something kludgy.A > 	Saying that, I doubt you can switch it to a non-existent path.p  7 	Correct; $SET DEVICE/PATH=<non-existent-path>/sw DDCU:l
 	will return u  % 	%SET-E-NOTSET, error modifying DDCU: 4 	-SYSTEM-E-NOSUCHPATH, specified path does not exist  @ 	If you attempt to switch paths to a path that exists, but isn'tA 	working for any reason (someone disabled the port on the switch,r@ 	for example), the device will enter/exit mount verification and< 	will remain on its current path.  We don't switch to a path! 	unless it's known to be working.k  @ > 	What I would like to see (or do) is to write a C program thatE > 	would dynamically load balance according to configuration criterial? > 	or default to given criteria... but the more I thought about0@ > 	it , I realized with multiple nodes, multiple paths, multiple> > 	HBAs the complexity would quickly grow!  and perhaps is whyF > 	there is a SET DEVICE/PATH command for the end-user to tinker with. 	 ? 	With VMS V7.3, there is the sys$set_device system service thatu 	gives you an API to do this.   @ 	With V7.3-1, there are new $getdvi item codes -- dvi$_multipath4 	returns true if the device is multipath-capable andD 	dvi$_mpdev_current_path returns the name of the current path.  NoteC 	that this item code will return the path name for any device whose-A 	class driver supports path names, whether or not the device is aF 	multipath member.  ? 	If you can think of any other additions you'd like to see, leth? 	me know, and I'll see if I can get 'em in for V7.3-1, althoughw2 	it's getting a bit late in the development cycle. -- n  M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.comO   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:35:16 -0500g- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>i: Subject: Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths3 Message-ID: <ZD_08.93744$Z2.1336619@nnrp1.uunet.ca>v  5 "David Harrold" <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote in messageM, news:a1vhsd$2vg$1@newsreader.mailgate.org... >... > Anyone have any ideas? >...  L Personally, I wouldn't worry about setting the path, YMMV though. I did someH tests on our fibre using VMS 7.2-1 and found that the wait for the mountG verification was much longer than any performance gains we would see bysG trying to load balance the paths. We just let the drives default to theeC first path they see, I have never seen that path get over 10% busy.      --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 06:53:33 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)n? Subject: Movement towards warranties for open source products ? 3 Message-ID: <RGCK1XPasedT@eisner.encompasserve.org>K  J Just in case any of the VMS open source developers have not seen this yet:  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23675.htmla  D [Summary: there appears to be a movement in the US towards requiring$ warranties on open source products.]  J I am not familiar with the organisation involved. Is there any chance that  Microsoft could be behind this ?   Simon.   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       ,+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:26:05 +1100-= From: "Mark\(unMASK\)Forsyth" <forsytMhm@optAushoSme.com.aKu>CC Subject: Re: Movement towards warranties for open source products ?u" Message-ID: <76e12a.vtf.ln@really>  L "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote in5 message news:RGCK1XPasedT@eisner.encompasserve.org....L > Just in case any of the VMS open source developers have not seen this yet: >k3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23675.htmlE >mF > [Summary: there appears to be a movement in the US towards requiring& > warranties on open source products.] >eL > I am not familiar with the organisation involved. Is there any chance that" > Microsoft could be behind this ?   Most likely...6 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/4274.html   Oorooy	 mark F...      >M > Simon. >  > --B > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.v   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 07:01:27 -08001 From: anders_wallin@altavista.com (Anders Wallin)s/ Subject: Multiple identifiers in SUBSYSTEM ace?m< Message-ID: <6cc41c7.0201150701.18432c78@posting.google.com>  C I am currently using the VMS protected subsystem mechanism. When mysD "gatekeeper" program executes the SUBSYSTEM identifier is granted to) my process for the duration of the image.@  G Is there a way to get more than one identifier granted by the SUBSYSTEMJE ACE? I have studied the security manual but not found a clear answer.i   Perhaps something like:   H    (SUBSYSTEM,(IDENTIFIER=TOM,ATTR=RESOURCE),(IDENTIFIER=DICK,ATTR=...))"    (IDENTIFIER=HARRY, ACCESS=READ)    (IDENTIFIER=*, ACCESS=NONE)  , I'm using VMS 7.1, 7.2, 7.2-1, 7.3 on ALPHA.   Regardsp
 Anders Wallinr   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 10:39:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 3 Subject: Re: Multiple identifiers in SUBSYSTEM ace? 3 Message-ID: <Tej3749TSysr@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  p In article <6cc41c7.0201150701.18432c78@posting.google.com>, anders_wallin@altavista.com (Anders Wallin) writes:E > I am currently using the VMS protected subsystem mechanism. When myyF > "gatekeeper" program executes the SUBSYSTEM identifier is granted to+ > my process for the duration of the image.O > I > Is there a way to get more than one identifier granted by the SUBSYSTEM G > ACE? I have studied the security manual but not found a clear answer.y >  > Perhaps something like:D > J >    (SUBSYSTEM,(IDENTIFIER=TOM,ATTR=RESOURCE),(IDENTIFIER=DICK,ATTR=...))$ >    (IDENTIFIER=HARRY, ACCESS=READ)  >    (IDENTIFIER=*, ACCESS=NONE) > . > I'm using VMS 7.1, 7.2, 7.2-1, 7.3 on ALPHA.  M Without looking it up, let me ask if you have tried multiple subsystem ACE's.r   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 06:59:32 -0800- From: uj797@victoria.tc.ca (Arthur T. Murray)g( Subject: Re: Natural language interfaces* Message-ID: <3c4443d4@news.victoria.tc.ca>F Keywords: natural language processing, Mentifex, NLP, speech synthesis  D Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.delete.ch> wrote on Mon, 14 Jan 2002:/ > In article <3C41A389.4E5AD88E@hda.hydro.com>,S > Terje Mathisen wrote:  >> Paul Sture wrote:5 > True, but it's worth mentioning that I successfully 5 > used a voice driven program from IBM 4.5 years ago.-  8 http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/jsaimind.html "The AI Mind"5 in JavaScript for Microsoft Internet Explorer needs ap6 natural language interface for use in the evolution of8 http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mind4th.html "The AI Mind".  6 > You had to learn to speak with spaces between words,3 > and of course clearly, but it worked well for me,f8 > for both commands and text input. In the end I decided9 > that listening to music while I worked was more fun :-)s > ___p > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:52:35 GMTy' From: alexc@world.std.com (Alex Colvin)s( Subject: Re: Natural language interfaces( Message-ID: <Gpzo7n.573CI@world.std.com>F Keywords: natural language processing, Mentifex, NLP, speech synthesis  9 >http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/jsaimind.html "The AI Mind"p6 >in JavaScript for Microsoft Internet Explorer needs a7 >natural language interface for use in the evolution of 9 >http://www.scn.org/~mentifex/mind4th.html "The AI Mind".s  : A natural (spoken) language interface in javascript should be a mere technical exercise.    -- 5
 	mac the nafu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:11:12 +0100s3 From: Terje Mathisen <terje.mathisen@hda.hydro.com>cY Subject: Re: Natural language interfaces - was:Re: Younger recruits versus experienced vee- Message-ID: <3C43F230.30F0F69F@hda.hydro.com>-   Paul Sture wrote:- > E > In article <3C41A389.4E5AD88E@hda.hydro.com>, Terje Mathisen wrote:eH > > To bring this back to at least comp.arch relevancy: This is the mainJ > > reason that natural language interfaces, particularly spoken, is going) > > to take a lot of computing resources.h > > I > True, but it's worth mentioning that I successfully used a voice driven G > program from IBM 4.5 years ago. You had to learn to speak with spaceseK > between words, and of course clearly, but it worked well for me, for bothfG > commands and text input. In the end I decided that listening to musicn! > while I worked was more fun :-)e  ? The problem is that there seems to be several (many?) orders of E magnitude evan between current state of the art (speaker-independent,hG very limited vocabulary, or speaker-dependent and larger vocabulary) tosH something that can consistently understand that horrible list we started with, even with a bad speaker.  D Granted, that system will then be better than almost all humans. :-)   Terjen   -- s  - <Terje.Mathisen@hda.hydro.com>@ "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:34:06 +0100 , From: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net>Y Subject: Re: Natural language interfaces - was:Re: Younger recruits versus experienced ve"7 Message-ID: <20020115073406.51d8e538.steveo@eircom.net>o  " On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:29:24 +01000 Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.delete.ch> wrote:  J PS> > To bring this back to at least comp.arch relevancy: This is the mainL PS> > reason that natural language interfaces, particularly spoken, is going+ PS> > to take a lot of computing resources.o PS> > L PS> True, but it's worth mentioning that I successfully used a voice driven J PS> program from IBM 4.5 years ago. You had to learn to speak with spaces   F 	Hell there were speech recognition cards for the Apple ][ that workedH fine within their limited vocabulary for the person that trained it, andL pretty well for most other people (strong accents would throw it). It wasn'tI ignored because it didn't work well enough, it was ignored because nobody- seemed to want it.   -- 1H C:>WIN                                          |     Directable MirrorsN The computer obeys and wins.                    |A Better Way To Focus The SunL You lose and Bill collects.                     |  licenses available - see:J                                                 |   http://www.sohara.org/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:10:25 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>B1 Subject: Re: Northernlight to close public access 8 Message-ID: <vga84ucfmppqv26ptl08j7q5rrmttkh5dt@4ax.com>  @ On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:12:22 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:i     >5L >So they are going from an advertisement-supported model to what, a customer3 >supported model?  If so, how does one subscribe?  o  @ Strangely they don't seem to say. I'd have been willing to pay aB reasonable annual fee as I honestly find it one of the best search	 engines. l -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:06:21 +0100o$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>1 Subject: Re: Northernlight to close public accesse. Message-ID: <gHW08.73$On.3921@news.get2net.dk>   AFAIK Google  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C435FD4.A34A8A1D@videotron.ca... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:L > > While we are on the subject, can anyone explain to me the business modelI > > for Google ?  Their main page indicates they offer advertising, but IiI > > don't recall ever seeing any.  Perhaps I just search for unpopular orp > > noncommercial topics.e > K > I am not sure which search engine does it, but at least one allows a site0 toJ > pay to  be listed at the top of searches. (not sure if google or yahoo).   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:45:07 +0100 (MET)a9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o" Subject: off-topic: naughty robot?; Message-ID: <01KD3SUKTLES8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>a  " I am getting a lot of visits from       trek13.sv.av.comf  % $  mc tcpip$nslookup trek13.sv.av.comn   Name:    trek13.sv.av.comv Address:  64.152.75.20  @ At http://www.webmasterwprld.com/forum11/790.html I see this is H mentioned, I'm not sure about the IP address.  (I haven't delved deeply H into this web page; Northern Light just turned it up when searching for  trek13.sv.av.com.)   I have at the moment      User-agent: *    Disallow: /  C in robots.txt.  This should keep out all robots, right?  Is this a  4 naughty robot?  (I'm running the OSU server on VMS.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:23:28 GMTi= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)3& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?0 Message-ID: <00A08137.2350C633@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <01KD3SUKTLES8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:r# >I am getting a lot of visits from   >l >   trek13.sv.av.com >l& >$  mc tcpip$nslookup trek13.sv.av.com >" >Name:    trek13.sv.av.com >Address:  64.152.75.20d >aA >At http://www.webmasterwprld.com/forum11/790.html I see this is aI >mentioned, I'm not sure about the IP address.  (I haven't delved deeply yI >into this web page; Northern Light just turned it up when searching for m >trek13.sv.av.com.)l >n >I have at the momenta >  >   User-agent: *s >   Disallow: /d > D >in robots.txt.  This should keep out all robots, right?  Is this a 5 >naughty robot?  (I'm running the OSU server on VMS.)n  E Check your log file to see if the crawler actually accesses the file.uE I've found a great many of these crawlers simply do not obey a site'sL; robot.txt file.  trek13.sv.av.com is, I believe, altavista..   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes5   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:53:00 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>e& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?; Message-ID: <01KD3V76GG8W8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r   > >I have at the momentg > >  > >   User-agent: *g > >   Disallow: /B > > F > >in robots.txt.  This should keep out all robots, right?  Is this a 7 > >naughty robot?  (I'm running the OSU server on VMS.)  > G > Check your log file to see if the crawler actually accesses the file.:  * Yes.  With GET, not with HEAD or whatever.  G > I've found a great many of these crawlers simply do not obey a site'sd > robot.txt file.     $ That's what it looks like here.  :-(  , > trek13.sv.av.com is, I believe, altavista.   And it is not well-behaved?h  F Technical question: Presumably a robot can first see what's there and : then come back to get it.  When should it obey robots.txt?  I At the moment, I don't have to pay connection costs for my hobbyist home oG machine on Sundays, so I only let robots in then.  I automatically put  B up and take down the robots.txt file for this purpose, and it HAS H decreased unwanted traffic (or, rather, traffic I don't want to pay for  right now).y  H Not only are these big files (PostScript, not HTML, and quite big), but E they are static.  Shouldn't the robot at least have the sense to see n* whether they have changed since last time?  5 Is the altavista crawler really this poorly designed?-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:22:05 GMTm= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?0 Message-ID: <00A0813F.535FFC02@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <01KD3V76GG8W8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:, >> >I have at the moment >> > >> >   User-agent: * >> >   Disallow: / >> >G >> >in robots.txt.  This should keep out all robots, right?  Is this a t8 >> >naughty robot?  (I'm running the OSU server on VMS.) >> lH >> Check your log file to see if the crawler actually accesses the file. >o+ >Yes.  With GET, not with HEAD or whatever.o >aH >> I've found a great many of these crawlers simply do not obey a site's >> robot.txt file.   >w% >That's what it looks like here.  :-(o >y- >> trek13.sv.av.com is, I believe, altavista.t >o >And it is not well-behaved? >oG >Technical question: Presumably a robot can first see what's there and s; >then come back to get it.  When should it obey robots.txt?d  @ You're asking questions here that would best be asked of the OSUB mailing list.  I believe that the crawler is supposed to read the ; robot.txt file before is goes plonking about your web site.     J >At the moment, I don't have to pay connection costs for my hobbyist home H >machine on Sundays, so I only let robots in then.  I automatically put C >up and take down the robots.txt file for this purpose, and it HAS AI >decreased unwanted traffic (or, rather, traffic I don't want to pay for   >right now). >nI >Not only are these big files (PostScript, not HTML, and quite big), but tF >they are static.  Shouldn't the robot at least have the sense to see + >whether they have changed since last time?$  C How will it know if a page has changed if it doesn't read the page?_   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl            pJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:28:59 -0000 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?, Message-ID: <a21lc8$32iq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A0813F.535FFC02@SendSpamHere.ORG...  J > >Not only are these big files (PostScript, not HTML, and quite big), butG > >they are static.  Shouldn't the robot at least have the sense to see - > >whether they have changed since last time?  >sE > How will it know if a page has changed if it doesn't read the page?   ; Snag the headers, and check the Last-Modified date for one.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:01:48 -0500u% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>a& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?, Message-ID: <3C446078.4AF79095@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote: 7 > Is the altavista crawler really this poorly designed?e   altavista is broken big time  P advanced text search: http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/sites/search/textadv   "chocolate" yields 1,405,273 n) "chocolate and bicycle" yields 3,944,133 -  K One would normally expect "and" to reduce the number of search results, butl3 with altavista, it seems to work exactly as an "or"v    I I hate to admit it, but I have been using google for a while.  Alta vista@M seems to have a more complete database, but it only works for a very specifics search of a single string.  K Google has been very helpful since Sept 11 with all the web sites that wereoM pulled off and google still had them cached. (there was an excellent airplane]J cockpit documentation web site, but the owner was asked by his employer toH pull it off, and I was able to save a copy from google before google had updated its cache).a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:12:14 GMTr= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)2& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?0 Message-ID: <00A08146.54FF411A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <a21lc8$32iq@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes:l > K >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messagen+ >news:00A0813F.535FFC02@SendSpamHere.ORG...r >oK >> >Not only are these big files (PostScript, not HTML, and quite big), butiH >> >they are static.  Shouldn't the robot at least have the sense to see. >> >whether they have changed since last time? >>F >> How will it know if a page has changed if it doesn't read the page? >l< >Snag the headers, and check the Last-Modified date for one.  C Assuming the server does this properly and truthfully is likely theiD reason such crawlers reread paged every visit.  I have yet to see an? entry in my log file from a crawler that issued a HEAD request.s     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:21:14 -0500S* From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com>& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?* Message-ID: <3C44731A.CA69E6C5@Compaq.com>   JF Mezei wrote:i > R > advanced text search: http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/sites/search/textadv >  > "chocolate" yields 1,405,273* > "chocolate and bicycle" yields 3,944,133  D In the "Advanced Text-Only Search", it appears the word AND must be * uppercased to do what you'd expect. Weird.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:32:40 -0800 (PST)o. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS advertisement@ Message-ID: <20020115113240.60185.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>  / It is time to create a new independent magazineM3 for OpenVMS. Should be sponsored by Encompass, withe. the OpenVMS software companies making ads, and, with interview with users (companies) and=203 sysadmins. should be launched each 3 or 6 months=20t	 per year.e  6 Is time to create a new PDF of OpenVMS 25-30 years ???     Regards    FC=20 3 --- Syltrem <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote:o6 > I just received my last copy of Oracle Magazine, and > as always, the 1st6 > thing I did was look for what Compaq is advertising: >=202 > p. 13 - Tru64. With a definition of cluster that > would be great for anS
 > OpenVMS ad.E > Back cover - ProliantN >=204 > I have never, ever, seen any mention of OpenVMS in > this magazine. >=20 > -- >=20	 > Syltrems3 > http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS relatedk > web site - en fran=E7ais)h5 > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from- > my address >=20 >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3DrL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dc F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilo fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D0  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?& Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/c   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:52:13 -0600 (CST)s& From: Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS advertisement- Message-ID: <01KD3AKZZA8400DQXR@SEMATECH.Org>r  L No, I don't think so.  If VMS is in its own magazine, then only existing VM= S I people will see it.  Just more "preaching to the choir".  We already havec9 the "OpenVMS Times" for that (a publication I like, BTW).a   Drew  L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dv6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575e9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600. 2706 Montopolis DriveiL Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech.=  B     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98uL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dr  / Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:e0 >It is time to create a new independent magazine4 >for OpenVMS. Should be sponsored by Encompass, with/ >the OpenVMS software companies making ads, andh* >with interview with users (companies) and1 >sysadmins. should be launched each 3 or 6 monthss
 >per year.  7 >Is time to create a new PDF of OpenVMS 25-30 years ???      >Regards   >FCu4 >--- Syltrem <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca> wrote:7 >> I just received my last copy of Oracle Magazine, andr >> as always, the 1sto7 >> thing I did was look for what Compaq is advertising:d >>3 >> p. 13 - Tru64. With a definition of cluster that  >> would be great for an >> OpenVMS ad. >> Back cover - Proliant >>5 >> I have never, ever, seen any mention of OpenVMS int >> this magazine.b >> >> --m >>
 >> Syltrem4 >> http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related >> web site - en fran=E7ais)6 >> To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from
 >> my addressn >> >> >>     >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DM >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=  =3Dm >F=E1bio dos Santos Cardosoo >OpenVMS System Managerj >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br M >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=- =3D-  3 >__________________________________________________t >Do You Yahoo!?<' >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!l" >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:10:17 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS advertisement= Message-ID: <tDX08.33441$JF.328255@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>h  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in messagee: news:20020115113240.60185.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com.../ It is time to create a new independent magazineu3 for OpenVMS. Should be sponsored by Encompass, withi. the OpenVMS software companies making ads, and) with interview with users (companies) andH0 sysadmins. should be launched each 3 or 6 months	 per year.   J Having been in this business for a while (like for about 18 years now) I'd  like to make a few observations:  J Magazines are costly to start up and generally generate negative cash flow for their first several years.  > Magazines require an editorial staff and an advertising staff.  L Magazines are either "controlled circulation" (free to qualified subscribersK who fit a profile) or subscription based. Controlled-circ magazines are 100 K percent dependent on advertising revenue. Some subscription-based magazines H are 100 percent subscriber-funded (eg my newsletter, which does not takeA advertising), others rely on a mix of ads and subscriber revenue.<  L Recall that in the mid-80s there were half a dozen DEC-specific magazines inK the USA and another half-dozen worldwide. All of them folded due to lack of1A advertising revenue (industry standards reared their ugly heads).w  H The proposal you mention (Encompass sponsorship, ads from VMS companies,F etc) might work but would require a hell of a lot of work and up-front& revenue which Encompass does not have.  E That said, Encompass US Inc.'s sister organization ITUG has a monthlynH magazine called the Connection. It comes as part of the $150 ITUG annualD membership fee. It is profitable because it is heavily subsidized byL NSK-centric vendors who realize that the Connection is the single best place0 to get the message out to their target audience.  L DECUS US's track record with magazines is not good. In the 1980s we had freeJ SIG newsletters which were paid for by Digital (who of course funded DECUSH heavily) and written and produced by the various SIGs. In the late 80s a; decision was made to create a combined SIGS Newsletter on al/ paid-subscription basis. This failed miserably.p  F DECUS had a glossy quarterly magazine for about a year, it failed too.  J And the moral is... magazines are easier said than done. Heck, I'd love toJ be the publisher/managing editor of a VMS journal, but I just don't see itI happening. And I can assure you that I don't have the requisite $500K-$1M<' capital needed for a successful launch!j   cheers,p   terry s    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:55:56 +0000m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e Subject: Re: Oracle Migrations8 Message-ID: <jtu74ukifncb969dn9vj4a82na3tojp1ci@4ax.com>  2 On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:17:16 -0500, "Jamal, Tahir" <TJamal@mtsinai.on.ca> wrote:i  E >We want to migrate from Oracle-5 on VAX/VMS. Can anybody suggest thel. >strategy & tools to be used for this project?  C Oracle 9i on Alpha/VMS and Oracle Developer 2000 or Alpha/VMS wouldtF provide what you need. This gives a choice of retaining character cellD functionality, using X based interface or providing a web interface.B I'd get a good Oracle consultant with VMS experience onsite for an: initial evaluation. RDB would also be usable as a backend.   >jamal_tahir@hotmail.com   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:54:36 GMTr3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>c Subject: Re: Oracle Migration<5 Message-ID: <3C444291.6BC747A9@DigitalSynergyInc.com>t   "Jamal, Tahir" wrote:   F > We want to migrate from Oracle-5 on VAX/VMS. Can anybody suggest the/ > strategy & tools to be used for this project?5 >d > jamal_tahir@hotmail.comt  D My company had a customer a few years ago which we migrtated from an NCR /Oracle system toIG VMS using Basic/RMS. The app ran about 10 times faster & the conversion  was done for less thanH the cost of the Oracle license for the VMS system. If interested it that direction, I could provide moreo details.  
 Jeff Coffieldu www.DigitalSynergyInc.comi   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:15:58 -0800 (PST)l. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>0 Subject: Re: Oracle RDB - SQLNet   Documentation@ Message-ID: <20020115111558.49134.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>  
 Dear Mates  , My friend (DBA) said to me he just found the& "Installation manual" in the Metalink.  3 He would like the "Command Reference Documentation" 2 or similar .... if you can help us in the internet link, thank you !=20   Regards    FC=20y  - --- Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote:- > Warren Spencer wrote:a > >=205 > > SQLNet is a proprietary (Oracle) network protocold > allowing DB client codeu4 > > to access a remote database.  It undoubtedly has > an API, but I've never/ > > heard of "commands" you can access from the  > command line.e >=20- >   There is. For administration. On VMS e.g.T >=20 >   It does,1 > > however, require configuration on each client( > machine to point it to a& > > server, or an Oracle Names Server. >=20* >   And VMS can be a "client" or "server". >=20 > >=203 > > More details on how the Internet is involved inm > the question would alsoy5 > > help.  I don't think SQLNET talks to a remote RDBw > database.l >=200 >   It does, using the "SQLnet for Rdb" kit from > Oracle. Or, actualy,+ >   the SQLnet kit talks to Rdb through theb > SQL/Services server on the1 >   VMS server. This kit makes Rdb "look" like and > "Oracle Classic" > database.m >=201 >   And all docs for SQLnet for Rdb is on Oracles  > support site Metalink. >=20 >   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm.I >=20 > >l     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D( F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D   2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?& Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:54:05 -0600.- From: "David L. Cathey" <davidc@montagar.com>R4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?1 Message-ID: <00A08119.E2FC7F2E.1567@montagar.com>W  J >I've wondered who foots the initial bill for Montagar to be able to make I >the hobbyist CD's available and to duplicate them for resale.  If it is >I >not Compaq, then it may simply be economics that the prior CD's need to ,C >sell in order to help cover the seed money for producing the next   >generation of CD's.  @ 	Montagar foots the bill for the Hobbyist CD's, but that's not a
 problem...  D >The another consideration is that Montagar may not have all of the H >latest CD's at their disposal to duplicate and if Compaq is not making E >those available to them at no-fee, then again it may be an economic v
 >restraint.     D 	No, there are enough resources/media here, plus support from Compaq# folks, so no problem here either...s  G >Perhaps David, who I copied on this, could comment because if it is a kG >matter of having the CD's made available for duping, and there are no bJ >legal issues lending them to David for mastering purposes, this might be  >simple to resolve.      	There are two main issues:   C 	1) Compaq sees the Hobbyist Kits as a good thing, however, this is M copyrighted software (not like Linux), so Compaq calls the shots.  Therefore, I we are only allowed to remaster the CD's every year or two.  We encouragefF Hobbyists to get/borrow media from any other source they can (short ofL out-right theft, of course) if they want something more recent.  In general,I given that there are many commercial sites that are months, if not years,rI behind the latest upgrades anyway, this really shouldn't be a problem forg the Hobbyist either.  > 	2) We wanted to wait until the release of the next version ofN OpenVMS - V7.3.  If we're going to be cutting new CD's, we wanted to make sure" we got the best bang for the buck.  E 	Now we are currently waiting on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 before we cut a&N new set (anticipated to be "REAL SOON NOW(tm)", so might as well wait).  We'llI get the latest version of as many popular products on the CD's as we can,a just like last time.  E >If it is the expenses related to burning the next set of CD's, what s= >about taking an informal tally of those hobbyist willing to 2J >'pre-purchase' the latest CD's, provided that enough participate to make = >it economically feasible for both Montagar and the hobbyist?t  A 	I feel comfortable that this is not nessessary.  Thanks, though!l  J >A related question that the Encompass folks might be able to answer, for J >those 'fee-paying' folks like myself, what about making the CD images or F >savesets available for download on the 'pay-side of the site?'  This F >might help entice more folks to pay for annual membersiphs, it would H >assure that only current members are pulling this items, it would also I >limit the burned bandwidth to paying folks, and still make the software tD >available without the upfront costs associated with burning CD's...  E 	There is more than just Encompass involved, as there are other DECUSoG related chapters, too!  I've been talking to John Wisniewski about this I topic today, actually.  What we're looking at doing is the possibility ofoK enabling those that have bought a Hobbyist Kit to download kits of softwarefI not included on the CD.  This keeps the bandwidth down, since the bulk oflJ the data is on the CD, and hopefully people would only pull the additionalH kits they need when needed.  Note again that this would not be "current"K software versions, but still be limited to the date of the last "snapshot".oL Again, for copyright reasons, we want the right Compaq people to approve any- software distribution plans for the Hobbyist.r  @ 	Don't take this as a committment, though!  We still need to getI Compaq approval, but I feel confident that some arrangement can be workediG out.  We also want to make sure we cater to all the affiliated chapterss? around the world that are part of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program.8  B 	Of course, part of the issue is simply time - this is a volunteerH effort, and sometimes we just don't move as fast as we'd otherwise like.  G - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -a? David L. Cathey                      |Inet: davidc@montagar.com>: Montagar Software Concepts           |Fone: (972)-423-5224= P. O. Box 260772, Plano, TX 75026    |http://www.montagar.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:28:51 -0800 0 From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com>4 Subject: RE: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?; Message-ID: <001801c19de1$b7fc1d00$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>e  I If someone has the 7.2-2 kits or the 7.3 kits can they give them or allowt others to copy them ?sL If I have them and make them available to hobbiest users to download or copy am I breaking the law??    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:49:12 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?, Message-ID: <3C443350.8A826031@videotron.ca>   "David L. Cathey" wrote:K > get the latest version of as many popular products on the CD's as we can,- > just like last time.  N Is there any process to suggest/poll for whcih products Hobbyist would like toL see ? (for instance, I wouldn't mind seing the real All-in-1 (office server)	 in there.d  J (By the way, the  layered product licenses include a bunch of licences forJ "all-in-1" but none for the real one, they deal with the retired "all-in-1 mail" stuff.    K > topic today, actually.  What we're looking at doing is the possibility ofbM > enabling those that have bought a Hobbyist Kit to download kits of software1 > not included on the CD.6   That would be great.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:24:35 +0100r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n# Subject: Prods in the Hobbyist kit. ' Message-ID: <3C443BA3.2411D844@aaa.com>l   Hi. : There is a product/license that I realy whould like to see? in the hobbyist program. That's PATHWORKS (or Advanced Server).t  = I'v just got a SAMBA kit running on my home box, but, from myy@ earlier experienses with PATHWORKS, SAMBA seams to take far moreE resourses (CPU) from the box then PW ever did. This wasn't the latestWB PW versions. Opening a 100k PDF from the server takes 5-10 seconds= with the Alpha CPU spinning at 100% most of the time and verye
 low disk I/O.o  D Anyway, PW/AS is still Compaq product, and they would be just right,  IMHO, to include in the package.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:50:45 -0800y% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>3' Subject: Re: Prods in the Hobbyist kit.3) Message-ID: <3C445DE5.14DA598E@rdrop.com>=   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote:o >=20 > Hi.y< > There is a product/license that I realy whould like to seeA > in the hobbyist program. That's PATHWORKS (or Advanced Server).= >=20F > Anyway, PW/AS is still Compaq product, and they would be just right," > IMHO, to include in the package.  E Actually, rather, I'd like to see Compaq take the Apache approach and-  officially support SAMBA on VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:34:39 GMT:L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")' Subject: Re: Prods in the Hobbyist kit.w8 Message-ID: <00A08138.B2C005CD@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  c In article <3C443BA3.2411D844@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes:  >Hi.; >There is a product/license that I realy whould like to see3@ >in the hobbyist program. That's PATHWORKS (or Advanced Server). >D> >I'v just got a SAMBA kit running on my home box, but, from myA >earlier experienses with PATHWORKS, SAMBA seams to take far moreSF >resourses (CPU) from the box then PW ever did. This wasn't the latestC >PW versions. Opening a 100k PDF from the server takes 5-10 seconds > >with the Alpha CPU spinning at 100% most of the time and very >low disk I/O. > E >Anyway, PW/AS is still Compaq product, and they would be just right,h! >IMHO, to include in the package.t  M As I understand it, Advanced Server is based on code licensed from AT&T whichuO has generalized code provided by Microsoft.  As a result, again as I understand3K it, it's a royalty product, and Compaq would still have to pay royalties on3B licenses it gave away.  So I don't think this is likely to happen.   -- Alanr  O ===============================================================================n0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-02106O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:27:55 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>l) Subject: segmented key vs duplicated data>, Message-ID: <3C446696.31323A2A@videotron.ca>  , OK, for my project to build 267,740 records.  + I have latitude which is 9 characters long >; 	and will range in values between "-11.xxxxx" and "-42.xxx"e  A  and longitude which will range between "110.xxxx" and "155.xxxx"     C As was suggested I will create a "grid" which will essentially be aw: combination of the whole units for latitude and longitude.   I have 2 options:   J 	create a new 5 digit field taking the unsigned integer portion of lat and
 long together=I 	(-24.43723 135.734783 would become "24135" which I can use to access alle records in that  	vicinity very easily.  Q 	However, this requires 6 extra characters per record (1.6meg more for the file).D     *OR*  C 	Create a segmented key that takes characters 2 and 3 of latitude  _' 		and characters 1, 2,3 of  longtitude.o  L The second option is specific to that dataset because it assumes all data isK in the southern hemisphere (skips minus sign as first character), southe ofoD -10 latitude (2 digits latitude) and east of 100 (3 digits positive longitude).     
 QUESTIONS:  I from a space point of view, would a segmented key take up much more indexw( space compared to a non segmented key  ?  H from a performance point of view, would a segmented key slow things down significantly ?n   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 01:48 CSTe' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)w! Subject: Re: Selling VMS licensesm- Message-ID: <15JAN200201483936@gerg.tamu.edu>   G Stephen Eickhoff <""operagost\"@e-mail.com (remove the dash)> writes...  }Larry Kilgallen wrote:f{ }> In article <a1srq7$6n8$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>, Stephen Eickhoff <""operagost\"@e-mail.com (remove the dash)> writes:. }>>Larry Kilgallen wrote:i| }>>>In article <a1qg1j$enl$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, Stephen Eickhoff <""operagost\"@e-mail.com (remove the dash)> writes: }>>>E }>>>>I have unused VMS licenses which I would like to sell. Yup, the nM }>>>>original, honest to goodness blue border certificates. They aren't tied  I }>>>>to any hardware IDs or expiration dates. Would I run into any legal n }>>>>problems doing this?  }>>>>  }>>>In general, yes. }>>>K }>>>See http://www.compaq.com/products/software/info/policies/swl_xfer.html  }>>>K }>>Well, I'm selling a DEC3000 on Ebay which originally had these licenses nL }>>loaded. From reading the rules, I should be able to transfer the VMS and , }>>VMS user licenses with the system easily. }> eC }> Absolutely,  so long as you transfer it along with the hardware.fB }> Your original post did not mention that you were making it part- }> of the sale of the corresponding hardware.l }> aC }> Of course the buyer has to pay the transfer fee, and you have tolA }> be in a position to execute the transfer documente (legally be , }> able to represent the previous licensee). } I }Gee, Compaq sure does have a lot of influence over the use of a license e> }which the user bought. You'd think it was rented! Great scam.  C If you sell someone (who hasn't got one) your drivers license, doesh3 that come complete with the right to drive legally?o  D Of course not. (In fact, it may well be illegal to sell your drivers	 license.)d  @ That piece of paper is called a "license" for a reason. When youB license something you are not buying it in the conventinal sense -F you are acquiring the right to use something in a specific way spelledE out in the terms of the licensing agreement. The physical certificatetE is just a piece of paper that indicates that the licensee is licensed H to use the software. You might consider reading the terms of the license+ that you agreed to. It is a legal contract.-  D You can probably legally sell the piece of paper, unless the licenseF forbids it, but it is just that: a piece of paper with pretty markingsC on it. It does not inherently include the right to use the software0F (unless the license agreement says so, which it doesn't in this case).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:12:05 -0500i% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>d! Subject: Re: Selling VMS licenses , Message-ID: <3C43F262.BD93E543@videotron.ca>   Rich Jordan wrote:H > Is there a way for the potential new owner to transfer the licenses toN > themselves or their own 'organization'?  In other words, can I advertise theN > station as coming with transferrable license PAKs?  What kind of hoops wouldD > need to be jumped through to effect a legal transfer in this case?  L When I bought my all mightly Vaxstation 3100 (30) from a university, I askedM about licence transfers and was told " don't bother with it, just continue tot! run with whatever we gave you".  w  J Compaq does not leverage its licence database (for instance to get back inN touch with customers who have stayed away from Digital but still have some oldR vaxes running). So if you run a "stolen" licence on your machine, they won't care.  L I run their (non expiring) licences and add the Hobbyist that I need on thatD machine. My first vax (Microvax II) had all of the original licencesN transfered to me when I bought the machine in 1989 (do you believe I then paid $20,000 for that machine ?)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:07:59 +01000= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>c8 Subject: Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions5 Message-ID: <3C43E35F.AA6757D4@contrastmediagroep.nl>e   Dirk Munk wrote:  H > What makes me so mad is that this is not a bug or something like that.D > TCPIP is very important system software, and although it does workD > properly (afaik), the whole management interface and documentationI > doesn't reflect that, not by far. It simply doesn't have "VMS quality".e  D I guess this is directly related to the fact that since V5 the tcpipH kernel is exactly the same as used in Tru64. So the management interface is also the same.A  H I would not say it doesn't have 'VMS quality'. IMHO it doesn't have 'VMS
 look & feel'.0  	 Groetjes,s   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:47:59 -0500a% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t8 Subject: Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions, Message-ID: <3C43ECBE.ECD061EB@videotron.ca>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:G > The CLI is a little more difficult to improve, given the interface ofp" > yesterday must still work today.  J If we are on VMS it ios because of its CLI.  I do not trust utilities thatF force you to enter arguments in unix style, especially when you need aM lowercase argument. This is blatantly visible in the TCPIP> command "netstat"aK which does not work as documented (the help mentions a default, but netstatd alone is not valid.)      + >  In general, you will notice that more ofm4 > our utilities use ASCII based configuration files.  L What I absolutely dislike ate systems where there are 2 configuration files,K one "binary" and one "text" with no clear and loud explanation of which has@J precedence over the other. In the case of text files, it is also not clear+ when they get written if you make a change._  W I much prefer the NCP paradigm with the DEFINE (permanent) and SET (volatile) commands./       >  The feeback has shownM > these provide a friendlier interface, mostly because the configuration data M > can be seen by typing the file, as opposed to the CLI which requires you tobM > know some obscure command to just extract one element of the configuration.d  M Funny that with DECNET-4 it wasn't a problem to display stuff and it was veryDE clear and easy to display the permanent or volatile settings. I don't,8 understand why this paradigm was not followed for TCPIP>  D > OK, now for dynamic changes, you might use the CLI, or you can useD > SYSCONFIG, or maybe even logicals.  You need to consult the TCP/IPG > Management guide and look at the instructions for the service you areM > interested in.  N Is there something that cannot be done in TCPIP> that can be done in SYSCONFIG@ ? If so, it is a flaw. I want a single utility to set things up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:22:25 +0100 = From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl> 8 Subject: Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions5 Message-ID: <3C442D11.B7C71EE8@contrastmediagroep.nl>a   JF Mezei wrote:   P > Is there something that cannot be done in TCPIP> that can be done in SYSCONFIGB > ? If so, it is a flaw. I want a single utility to set things up.  @ Well you can enter sysconfig commands from the TCPIP> prompt. So7 strictly speaking you can do all from the TCPIP prompt.e  ( But these are not native TCPIP commands.  	 Check out    TCPIP> sysconfig -q inet  B And you'll see lots of parameters you cannot set with native tcpip	 commands.f   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 06:49:42 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: TCPIP io status blocks on 64 bit alphas3 Message-ID: <nVeE+S6iC$S9@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  r In article <9xP08.640$gf1.3617@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> writes:L > The buffer_address field is not used in any of the TCP/IP services, so its- > field size is not particularly interesting.   0 So why did TCPIP or UCX name it buffer_address ?  6 The underlying QIO service does not give it that name.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:07:34 +1100a0 From: Boyd Blackwell <Boyd.Blackwell@anu.edu.au>( Subject: tuning to fix slow file delete?* Message-ID: <3C43E346.EFC71DF5@anu.edu.au>   I have found thatc$ backup/delete <files> <other-device>+ is often painfully slow in the delete phasefN e.g. for 30 files, the backup copy to 9 seconds, and the delete phase took 180 seconds.( i.e. 20 times longer than the copy phase   I triedt
   backup/fastl   set volume/nohighwater   set volume/noeraseondelete with no effect.w  1 None of the files were being used by anyone else.l  P I may try dismounting the drive, but there were 400 files opne on the device, so that will have to wait until	 a reboot.   P I am using an Aplha 500/400, the drive is clustered to two other nodes, and that	 directoyrdL contains 23,000 files (which is why I am moving them elsewhere with backup).   Any suggestions?  O ps: I noticed an idea to delete files in reverse alphabetical order.  I haven'tr tried this, but it wasO regarded as "medium speed" and backup/delete was ranked as the "most efficient"t method.h  5 Also, show device output is included for the curious.gM Disk PRLAS2$DKA200:, device type COMPAQ BB01811C9C, is online, mounted, file-dP     oriented device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, error logging       is enabled.y  O     Error count                    1    Operations completed           77097305tO     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] O     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WpO     Reference count              447    Default buffer size                 512kO     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track                   254eO     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder                  20   O     Volume label          "PRLDATA3"    Relative volume number                0nO     Cluster size                  35    Transaction count                   447aO     Free blocks                82460    Maximum files allowed            493959kO     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           3aO     Mount status              System    Cache name      "_PRLAS2$DKB0:XQPCACHE" O     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache     8246tO     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache   81552O     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache       1284PO     Volume owner UIC     [PRL,CAMAC]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCDc  L   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, write-back caching enabled.+   Volume is also mounted on PRLAS0, PRLAS1.I   Directory in questiona  3 SPECTROSCOPY.DIR;1            File ID:  (37176,1,0)e3 Size:         1725/1750       Owner:    [PRL,CAMAC] " Created:   30-MAY-2001 16:18:17.79& Revised:   30-MAY-2001 16:34:12.72 (2) Expires:   <None specified>u" Backup:    15-JAN-2002 01:28:25.22 Effective: <None specified>r Recording: <None specified>r File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      OnlineP File attributes:    Allocation: 1750, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, Default0 version limit: 32767, Contiguous, Directory fileI Record format:      Variable length, maximum 512 bytes, longest 512 bytes 4 Record attributes:  No carriage control, Non-spanned RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None? File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World:E  Access Cntrl List:E (IDENTIFIER=H1DATA,OPTIONS=DEFAULT,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+CONTROL)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:44:10 +01001= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>-, Subject: Re: tuning to fix slow file delete?5 Message-ID: <3C43EBDA.A4A125CD@contrastmediagroep.nl>e   Boyd Blackwell wrote:u >  > I have found thati& > backup/delete <files> <other-device>- > is often painfully slow in the delete phasetP > e.g. for 30 files, the backup copy to 9 seconds, and the delete phase took 180
 > seconds.* > i.e. 20 times longer than the copy phase  ? You might try DFU from the freeware cd. It is also available at ' http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/r   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:56:21 GMTs" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>, Subject: Re: tuning to fix slow file delete?2 Message-ID: <pVT08.6289$E82.18137@typhoon.bart.nl>   Boyd,c  ?  you might check the values for the following SYSGEN paramters:  LOCKDIRWAITd ACP_DINDXCACHED If the other cluster node holds the locks for the device you want toK delete files on and is rather busy then it might explain why deleting filest is slow.   Hans  ; Boyd Blackwell <Boyd.Blackwell@anu.edu.au> wrote in message=$ news:3C43E346.EFC71DF5@anu.edu.au... > I have found thatd& > backup/delete <files> <other-device>- > is often painfully slow in the delete phase L > e.g. for 30 files, the backup copy to 9 seconds, and the delete phase took 180i
 > seconds.* > i.e. 20 times longer than the copy phase > 	 > I tried  >   backup/fastc >   set volume/nohighwater >   set volume/noeraseondelete > with no effect.a > 3 > None of the files were being used by anyone else.A >TG > I may try dismounting the drive, but there were 400 files opne on the 
 device, so > that will have to wait until > a reboot.. >CI > I am using an Aplha 500/400, the drive is clustered to two other nodes,5 and that > directoyraE > contains 23,000 files (which is why I am moving them elsewhere withl backup). >3 > Any suggestions? >rI > ps: I noticed an idea to delete files in reverse alphabetical order.  Iu haven'tm > tried this, but it wasF > regarded as "medium speed" and backup/delete was ranked as the "most
 efficient"	 > method.o >h7 > Also, show device output is included for the curious.nI > Disk PRLAS2$DKA200:, device type COMPAQ BB01811C9C, is online, mounted,n file- J >     oriented device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, error loggingo >t >     is enabled.  >t> >     Error count                    1    Operations completed 770973053 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,Wt= >     Reference count              447    Default buffer sizey 512s; >     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track  254p= >     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder= 20 >=@ >     Volume label          "PRLDATA3"    Relative volume number 0N; >     Cluster size                  35    Transaction countS 447P? >     Free blocks                82460    Maximum files allowedB 4939595 >     Extend quantity                5    Mount count= 3=4 >     Mount status              System    Cache name "_PRLAS2$DKB0:XQPCACHE"-H >     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache 8246J >     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 8155F >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache 12842 >     Volume owner UIC     [PRL,CAMAC]    Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD  >2E >   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, write-back cachingx enabled.- >   Volume is also mounted on PRLAS0, PRLAS1.i >e > Directory in questiont > 5 > SPECTROSCOPY.DIR;1            File ID:  (37176,1,0)e5 > Size:         1725/1750       Owner:    [PRL,CAMAC]u$ > Created:   30-MAY-2001 16:18:17.79( > Revised:   30-MAY-2001 16:34:12.72 (2) > Expires:   <None specified> $ > Backup:    15-JAN-2002 01:28:25.22 > Effective: <None specified>  > Recording: <None specified>s  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineJ > File attributes:    Allocation: 1750, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, Defaultf2 > version limit: 32767, Contiguous, Directory fileK > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 512 bytes, longest 512 bytes 6 > Record attributes:  No carriage control, Non-spanned > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: NoneA > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World:E  > Access Cntrl List:G > (IDENTIFIER=H1DATA,OPTIONS=DEFAULT,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+CONTROL)r >m >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:08:07 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>S, Subject: Re: tuning to fix slow file delete?' Message-ID: <3C440D97.AEE0CA7C@aaa.com>g   Hi.1< I think it's simply that you have a directory that is larger= then the limit for the "directory cache". I'm not sure of then= size of the limit in blocks in later versions of VMS (and you 9 don't say what version you run), but in earlier (up to at)< least 6.x I think) it was 127 (or 128) disk blocks. When one8 pass that limit, there is a large difference in deleting9 multiple file, which is just what you probably want to doh in this DIR after all :-)c  ; Your .DIR file is over 1700 block. You can check the amounto: of free space in the .DIR file with DFU (nice tool b.t.w).  ; I think you have to reorg your directory/file structure (orl; just delete files if you don't need them) and then compress  the .DIR file (e.g using DFU).   Jan-Erik Sderholm.n  ; Boyd Blackwell <Boyd.Blackwell@anu.edu.au> wrote in message0$ news:3C43E346.EFC71DF5@anu.edu.au... > I have found thatF& > backup/delete <files> <other-device>- > is often painfully slow in the delete phasew: > e.g. for 30 files, the backup copy to 9 seconds, and the  > delete phase took 180 seconds.* > i.e. 20 times longer than the copy phase   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:41:34 GMTe# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>t, Subject: Re: tuning to fix slow file delete?? Message-ID: <ycX08.318492$oj3.65616903@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>>  L You don't say what version of VMS you are running, but I expect that you areC on an older version.  Your problem was a very common one with largeoL directory files prior to circa VMS 7.2.  The problem is not just with cache,H but with the way the system  reshuffles the directory file each time you empty a directory block.    The best cure is to upgrade VMS.  = "Boyd Blackwell" <Boyd.Blackwell@anu.edu.au> wrote in message $ news:3C43E346.EFC71DF5@anu.edu.au... > I have found thatr& > backup/delete <files> <other-device>- > is often painfully slow in the delete phasegL > e.g. for 30 files, the backup copy to 9 seconds, and the delete phase took 180a
 > seconds.* > i.e. 20 times longer than the copy phase >t	 > I triede >   backup/fasto >   set volume/nohighwater >   set volume/noeraseondelete > with no effect.u >r3 > None of the files were being used by anyone else.l >lG > I may try dismounting the drive, but there were 400 files opne on thet
 device, so > that will have to wait until > a reboot.o >nI > I am using an Aplha 500/400, the drive is clustered to two other nodes,g and that > directoyriE > contains 23,000 files (which is why I am moving them elsewhere with  backup). >1 > Any suggestions? >0I > ps: I noticed an idea to delete files in reverse alphabetical order.  Ie haven'tg > tried this, but it wasF > regarded as "medium speed" and backup/delete was ranked as the "most
 efficient"	 > method.e >c7 > Also, show device output is included for the curious.tI > Disk PRLAS2$DKA200:, device type COMPAQ BB01811C9C, is online, mounted,n file-?J >     oriented device, shareable, served to cluster via MSCP Server, error logging  >s >     is enabled.u > > >     Error count                    1    Operations completed 770973053 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UICs [SYSTEM]2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,Wl= >     Reference count              447    Default buffer sizee 512o; >     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track  254n= >     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylindert 20 > @ >     Volume label          "PRLDATA3"    Relative volume number 0d; >     Cluster size                  35    Transaction counto 447a? >     Free blocks                82460    Maximum files allowedo 4939595 >     Extend quantity                5    Mount count- 3-4 >     Mount status              System    Cache name "_PRLAS2$DKB0:XQPCACHE"oH >     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache 8246J >     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 8155F >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache 12842 >     Volume owner UIC     [PRL,CAMAC]    Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD  >kE >   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, write-back caching  enabled.- >   Volume is also mounted on PRLAS0, PRLAS1.e >M > Directory in questionh >i5 > SPECTROSCOPY.DIR;1            File ID:  (37176,1,0) 5 > Size:         1725/1750       Owner:    [PRL,CAMAC]a$ > Created:   30-MAY-2001 16:18:17.79( > Revised:   30-MAY-2001 16:34:12.72 (2) > Expires:   <None specified>S$ > Backup:    15-JAN-2002 01:28:25.22 > Effective: <None specified>- > Recording: <None specified>0  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      OnlineJ > File attributes:    Allocation: 1750, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0, Defaulto2 > version limit: 32767, Contiguous, Directory fileK > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 512 bytes, longest 512 bytesi6 > Record attributes:  No carriage control, Non-spanned > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: NoneA > File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World:Eu > Access Cntrl List:G > (IDENTIFIER=H1DATA,OPTIONS=DEFAULT,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+CONTROL)n >  >e >l   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:24:25 +0000 (UTC)u9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> + Subject: Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?l- Message-ID: <a21e2p$rpe$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>   ' Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:   3 : It seems to loop in init_coding. (malloc related)e  2 Think I have solved the malloc problems. (I think)  7 : : "Distribution" is at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/emacsu  % Most recent is now emacs207_3.bck.gz.E   Run it with something like mcr []temacs_d.exe -l loadup# mcr []temacs_d.exe -map temacs.dumpe (or debugger equivalents)c  5 Anything like practical use can only be done with -l. K The -map version quits because of a top-level problem you also see with -l.n  I It is only a partially working emacs, so do not download (30M) unless youT want to develop and debug.  G The VMS conditionals has got a stay of execution for the moment, but itl4 will not last until we get more people doing things.  
 -Roar Throns    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:37:53 +0100c9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publice' Message-ID: <3C43F871.EE17BDDB@aaa.com>    Hm.t. I thought I'd look for more info on "Gumball"./ I tried www.gumball.com. Highly recommended :-),  4 Anyway, If someone would like to see Compaq-stickers7 on Gumball cars, check this pictures. They are from the04 Gunball-3000 race (round the Batic sea) during 2001.4 I selected some pictures where the Compaq sticker is clearly seen...s
 Have fun !  B http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010430-160435.jpgB http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010426-151643.jpgB http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010429-110127.jpgB http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010501-185228.jpg  # The compleat picture galery is at :k" http://www.kimble.org/gumball3000/  % Well, not compleatly of-subject, or ?c   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > & > I have only one word to say to that: >t
 > Gumball! >p > Anyone remember the flick?G > At the starting point, one driver says to his sidekick (in a moderate6
 > accent): > H > "First rule of Italian sports driving:" (Rips the rear-view mirror off4 > the glass.) "What's behind me is *NOT* important!" >  > -- > David J. Dachterax > dba DJE Systemsw > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:15:27 -0500c2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>8 Subject: When do the HP Shareholders vote on the merger?. Message-ID: <3C44397F.88699F41@mindspring.com>  < Okay, I've read lots and lots of stories about the HP/Compaq	 "merger".d  7 But somewhere along the way, I missed a crictical fact:l  >     *WHEN* do the HP shareholders actually vote on the merger?     What date?  ? (Minor sidelight: Do the Compaq shareholders also have to vote?hG In any case, it hardly matters as they're almost certain to vote "Yes",sA the alternative being a slow lingering death rather than a slower  lingering death.)s   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:14:59 -0000o* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: xml and OpenVMS, Message-ID: <a1ui3v$30r4@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  d "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in message news:200201140724.IAA13526@sinet1.fom.fgan.de...  N > Why should it now be usable? You mean: Are there XML tools for VMS? Correct? >mK > AFAIK is XML a a hypertext language (eXtended Markup Language) like html.e  K No. XHTML is a hypertext markup language. XML is a syntax with more generaltP use. It saves one having to write ad-hoc parsers for every possible application." However, it doesn't *do* anything.  M An analogy would be to Internet message headers. It's useful to have a common1N format between mail, news, http... However, you need then to have an agreementO on what they mean. Without such an understanding, you are limited to very basic = operations: 'is header x present?'. 'What is the value of y?'   E On a random trawl: you can use XML to store chess positions, chemicalMO structures, mathematical equations, real time air traffic control data (gulp!).,G The higher level applications are much more interesting and tricky than   the syntax of the data exchange.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 07:06:16 GMT( From: seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach)O Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The deme; Message-ID: <3c43d4e8$0$79561$7f8943f3@newsreader.visi.com>   A In article <1ja74ugiqe5ekget08gjhtrlihv9jmmjgr@news.newsguy.com>, ! Paul Guertin  <pg@sff.net> wrote:eB >Do you think that putting the command key on the mouse would make' >the interface more intuitive, or less?a  F Less.  The user is already exposed to "modifier keys", but having someG buttons on the mouse be buttons, and others be modifiers, sounds prettytF confusing.  Meanwhile, if all the modifiers exist on both sides of theE keyboard, the user can mouse with one hand and modify with the other.i   -s --  K    Copyright 2001, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / seebs@plethora.net K    $ chmod a+x /bin/laden      Please do not feed or harbor the terrorists.oJ      C/Unix wizard, Pro-commerce radical, Spam fighter.  Boycott Spamazon!N Consulting, computers, web hosting, and shell access: http://www.plethora.net/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:27:32 -0400-+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>4O Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The deme1 Message-ID: <3C43CBD4.20679132@trailing-edge.com>d   Paul Guertin wrote: E > I am that someone, and I what I said was: "If your interface uses a F > meta key to put the mouse in some special mode, then put that key onD > the mouse itself, not on an unrelated peripheral." Don't you agree( > that doing so would be more intuitive? > C > Do you think that putting the command key on the mouse would makeo( > the interface more intuitive, or less?  > Up to a point, more.  But I've dealt with mice with as many as@ seven buttons (X-Windows) and I think that after a certain point@ (which is probably 2 or 3) it's silly to add more mouse buttons.< The seven-button mice I used had a button layout on top that@ was entirely confusing - they weren't just numbered 1 through 7,> they tried to resolve the homogeneity by making them different; sizes and shapes.  The software, of course, simply referredf" to the buttons as 1 through 7 :-(.   Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 07:53:47 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).B Subject: Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha3 Message-ID: <yA9GFFsSe8St@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  X In article <1020114174010.1925C-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes:$ > On 14 Jan 2002, Bob Koehler wrote:% >>   Set is the corresponding commandj1 >>    which changes only the permanent data base.D' >                             ^^^^^^^^^ ' >                             volatile o >>   >  > Otherwise, I agree with Bob. W  $    Ooops, yes.  Cut and paste error.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 08:57:08 -05001 From: "Matthew X. Economou" <xenophon@irtnog.org> B Subject: Re: [Q] Installing the VXT2000+ software on OpenVMS/Alpha0 Message-ID: <w4osn9767kb.fsf@eco-fs1.irtnog.org>  D >>>>> "Hoff" == Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> writes:  ?     Hoff> When posting, please include the relevent version and,E     Hoff> product information, for OpenVMS and for the other productsd.     Hoff> referenced in the question.  Thanks!  @ My apologies.  I usually know better.  The system in question isC running the Hobbyist distribution of OpenVMS 7.2 for the Alpha.  It : does have Phase V DECnet configured, as well as TCPIP 5.0.  F As can be surmised, I know almost nothing about VMS, hence some of the dumb questions.t  E     Hoff> a different and likely better approach, if you have OpenVMSeA     Hoff> V6.2 or later -- use LANCP for the download and for thei     Hoff> registration.v  B When I initially tried to get MOP downloads working, I tried usingE LANCP.  I was under the mistaken impression that the only way to makea; it work was through the Phase IV stack.  I stand corrected."   -- cF Matthew X. Economou <xenophon@irtnog.org> - Unsafe at any clock speed!J "Little grey men are coming our way (tastes just like chicken, they say)."	  - ClutchM   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 10:23:32 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)> Subject: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0201151023.3c983681@posting.google.com>    Hello,  2 Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories?   TIA    Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanL afeldman;gfigroup.come   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.028 ************************  35565080    Sectors per track  254p= >     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder= 20 >=@ >  C    C    C    C    C    C    C    C    C    	C    
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