0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 29      Contents:) *****ADVERTISE TO 12 MILLION PEOPLE FREE! A Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ... . Another "Why VMS is better than unix" post ...2 Re: Another "Why VMS is better than unix" post ...> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for theG Re: capitalization (was: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC) " Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner reportC Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available C Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available # DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop P Re: Does anyone know a way of getting version 7.2  to support the Oxygen vx1 graA Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? 5 Re: Films and Books. [was Re: Younger recruits versus  Re: FTP Success/Failure?; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC  Re: https client api3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? 3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?  Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet) Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet) Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet) Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet) Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet)( Re: linux drivers for hz70 storage array  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese1 Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths 1 Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths 1 Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths * Re: Multiple identifiers in SUBSYSTEM ace? Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast. New vaxstation 3100  RE: New vaxstation 3100  Re: New vaxstation 3100 - O'Reilly X/Motif books available for download  Re: off-topic: naughty robot? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? $ Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof" Rapid Blast - PVNG Revenues Up 23%$ Re: segmented key vs duplicated data$ Re: segmented key vs duplicated data TCP/IP Services echo service? ! Re: TCP/IP Services echo service? ! Re: TCP/IP Services echo service? / Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions / Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions + Re: TCPIP io status blocks on 64 bit alphas # Re: tuning to fix slow file delete? ( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public Re: VMSBackup to unix ) Re: why case independence came into being , Why Purveyor  is the best webserver for VMS!0 Re: Why Purveyor  is the best webserver for VMS!/ RE: Why Purveyor is the best webserver for VMS! F Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The demB Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demB Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )M Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of compaq ) 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 15 Jan 02 12:29:25 EST  From: 93282910@bigcashtoday.com 2 Subject: *****ADVERTISE TO 12 MILLION PEOPLE FREE!" Message-ID: <5018570@MVB.SAIC.COM>   Dear info-vax@mvb.saic.com,                                     A                  Would you like to send an Email Advertisement to 9                    OVER 12,000,000 PEOPLE DAILY for FREE?                    ) Do you have a product or service to sell? ) Do you want an extra 100 orders per week?   G NOTE: (If you do not already have a product or service to sell, we can   supply you with one).   9 ========================================================= 5 1) Let's say you... Sell a $24.95 PRODUCT or SERVICE. ; 2) Let's say you... Broadcast Email to only 500,000 PEOPLE. @ 3) Let's say you... Receive JUST 1 ORDER for EVERY 2,500 EMAILS.  ; CALCULATION OF YOUR EARNINGS BASED ON THE ABOVE STATISTICS:   7 [Day 1]: $4,990  [Week 1]: $34,930  [Month 1]: $139,720   8 ========================================================G To find out more information, Do not respond by email. Instead, Please   visit our web site at:     http://www.bigcashtoday.com        List Removal Instructions:E We hope you enjoyed receiving this message. However, if you'd rather  J not receive future e-mails of this sort from Internet Specialists, send an> email to removalstoday2002@yahoo.com and type "remove" in the @ "subject" line and you will be removed from any future mailings.   We hope you have a great day!  Internet Specialists   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:13:59 GMT " From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>J Subject: Re: 17 years and still waiting for my first VMS crash (yawn!) ...9 Message-ID: <Xns91977C7118739falkarcabca@205.233.108.180>   ) Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in  0 news:lga84usm7tf3jk45ekppmatf3s7i9df3eg@4ax.com:  G > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:29:56 GMT, Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca> wrote:  >  > I >>Just last night I was re-booting an Alphaserver running OVMS 7.3.  The  I >>other nodes (another Alpha at 7.3 and a VAX at 7.2) decided to join it  B >>in re-booting too.  (LOCKMGRERR, Error detected by Lock Manager) > G > There is a known LOCKMGRERR problem in at least 7.1 through 7.2-1 and H > possibly 7.3 triggered by attempts to expand lockidtbl durring clusterH > communication problems. Work around (from DSN) was to up min_lockidtblF > to a sufficiently high value that it will never need to be increasedE > dynamically. That's the only VMS Alphaserver crash we've had in the D > two years since migrating from VAX and since setting min_lockidtbl > we've had no repeats.   ( Good to know that.  Thanks for the info.E In fact the reason for re-boot was to apply results of first autogen  G after upgrade from 7.2 to 7.3.  LOCKIDTBL was more than doubled by the   autogen.   --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:12:18 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)7 Subject: Another "Why VMS is better than unix" post ... = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201151312.5920ef6c@posting.google.com>   & found this on another vms web site ...  D VMS stands for Virtual Memory System. It is an operating system thatE Digital Equipment Corporation developed after the RSX system that ran F on the PDP series of computers (circa late 70's early 80's - hence VMSB post-dates Unix -- more history here). VMS is process heavy ratherF than process light so programs load quite slowly - once loaded howeverC they make for reasonable real time perfomance despite the fact that C VMS was never designed to be a real time OS. Indeed this ability to C "run real time" is why VMS is not merely a good daemon platform but 0 the daemon platform - yup even better than Unix.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:36:37 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>; Subject: Re: Another "Why VMS is better than unix" post ... / Message-ID: <3C44AE1E.8947D75@blueyonder.co.uk>    Bob Ceculski wrote:  > ( > found this on another vms web site ... > F > VMS stands for Virtual Memory System. It is an operating system thatG > Digital Equipment Corporation developed after the RSX system that ran H > on the PDP series of computers (circa late 70's early 80's - hence VMSD > post-dates Unix -- more history here). VMS is process heavy ratherH > than process light so programs load quite slowly - once loaded howeverE > they make for reasonable real time perfomance despite the fact that E > VMS was never designed to be a real time OS. Indeed this ability to E > "run real time" is why VMS is not merely a good daemon platform but 2 > the daemon platform - yup even better than Unix.  < nice one Bob, except, its not us in comp.os.vms that need to hear this, we know it already.   regards  --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:57:09 GMT 9 From: "David Thompson" <david.thompson1@worldnet.att.net> G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the I Message-ID: <FK718.376379$W8.13745336@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote :  > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:B > > >Ah, the ignorance of youth.  He's never heard of an IBM 1620. > > # > > <grin>  Do you think he'll ask?  >  > Isn't that a printer ? > P > What were those big band printers with the motor that opened their covers thatL > had the same finish/style as the last batch of card readers IBM made ? ( I# > forgot the number of the device).   = (Several models of) 1403 were the _chain_ (not band) printers > that were the mainstay of S/360 and S/370 systems for at least9 a decade; they were originally designed for use with 1401 / computers, but those were much less successful.    --* - David.Thompson 1 now at worldnet.att.net   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 06:06:10 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) P Subject: Re: capitalization (was: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-vfZT9dYcOr8J@localhost>   4 On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:04:56, "Peter L. Montgomery" ) <Peter-Lawrence.Montgomery@cwi.nl> wrote:   P > In article <STv08.129$na5.11407@news.xtra.co.nz> "AG" <ang@xtra.co.nz> writes:8 > >"Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in message. > >news:a1t4o6$vsq$1@citadel.in.taronga.com... > >  > >>I > >> That is the point. English is a case-sensitive language. "Danish" is J > >> a language. "danish" is a pastry. "Polish" is a nationality. "polish"H > >> is how you get silverware clean. "Turkey" is a country. "turkey" is > >> a bird", and so on. > >> > > J > >Well, no. In fact it isn't (note that you're using proper names again).F > >Except for the very few exceptions the case doesn't matter. Even inK > >those few exceptions it will take some special effort to make a sentence L > >which is truly ambiguous (eg - it cannot be resolved or is really hard to > >resolve from the context).  > - >     Does Detroit have more Lions or Tigers? N > Does Detroit have more lions or tigers?                (sports' teams names) > M >     She requested an apple.  She requested an Apple .  (fruit or computer?)  > 4 >     Apple is cutting jobs.  Apple is cutting Jobs.: > (Reducing staff or critiquing its executive Steve Jobs?) > 8 >     The chemist ordered CO.  The chemist ordered Co.   > (Carbon monoxide or Cobalt)  > / >     Are the bushes gone from the white house? + > Are the bushes gone from the White House? + > Are the Bushes gone from the White House?  > 9 >     Now back to our regularly scheduled DEC and Compaq.   F Soon :-) But first if the sentences you've typed above were part of a @ conversation, how do you here^H^H^H^H hear the capital letters ?   --   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:42:19 +0000 < From: Andrew Swallow <andrew.swallow@eatspam.baesystems.com>+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business 6 Message-ID: <3C44861B.B1DADEA6@eatspam.baesystems.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > G > In article <3C434ED7.B2D6E740@eatspam.baesystems.com>, Andrew Swallow  > wrote: > > WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > > >  > > > MGPCX will do this.  > > > 8 > > Thank you.  I assume that MGPCX is a program, rather > > than a part of VMS.  > >  > Yes, you can get it from< > http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?MGPCX >  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland   " Thank you to everyone who replied. --  7 _______________________________________________________  Andrew Swallow   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:44:57 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report , Message-ID: <3C4486AB.E39051F7@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:N > >If the Alpha version lags far behind the IA64 version by the time customersN > >are ready/forced to go to IA64, the migration will cost customers much more > in% > >terms of human resources and time.  >  > This is NOT the plan.   L Can you comment on the plan to retire/mature VMS on Alpha only 2 years afterB it is available commercially to customers on IA64 ? (eg: in 2006).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:17:29 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report > Message-ID: <t9718.77505$Sj1.30915818@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C4486AB.E39051F7@videotron.ca... > Fred Kleinsorge wrote:F > > >If the Alpha version lags far behind the IA64 version by the time	 customers K > > >are ready/forced to go to IA64, the migration will cost customers much  more > > in' > > >terms of human resources and time.  > >  > > This is NOT the plan.  > H > Can you comment on the plan to retire/mature VMS on Alpha only 2 years after D > it is available commercially to customers on IA64 ? (eg: in 2006).  E I don't think that would sit too well with US Government customers...    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 22:54:23 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) = Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report 3 Message-ID: <7qePA80Mdv7L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <t9718.77505$Sj1.30915818@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > 4 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C4486AB.E39051F7@videotron.ca... >> Fred Kleinsorge wrote: G >> > >If the Alpha version lags far behind the IA64 version by the time  > customers L >> > >are ready/forced to go to IA64, the migration will cost customers much > more >> > in ( >> > >terms of human resources and time. >> > >> > This is NOT the plan. >>I >> Can you comment on the plan to retire/mature VMS on Alpha only 2 years  > after E >> it is available commercially to customers on IA64 ? (eg: in 2006).  > G > I don't think that would sit too well with US Government customers...  >   > 	Never mind that.  It is a distortion of what Compaq claims.   	The piece reads as so:   N The best evidence we have of that [long term platform support] is today we areN still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systems purchased well overO 10 years ago.  We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS for Alpha K users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance  releases will continue.   C 	"new functionality ... at least through 2006"  NOT retiring VMS on  	Alpha in 2006.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:46:07 -0500*% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report., Message-ID: <3C451390.79C26C6C@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: J > > Can you comment on the plan to retire/mature VMS on Alpha only 2 years > afterrF > > it is available commercially to customers on IA64 ? (eg: in 2006). > G > I don't think that would sit too well with US Government customers...V  I If DII-COE means only garanteed support for existing configurations, then M making VMS mature on Alpha has no impact on that. Besides, VMS would still beO available on IA64.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:26:02 -0800, From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Brad Hamilton)L Subject: Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available= Message-ID: <d0acbf7e.0201151326.7f7b29c0@posting.google.com>1  C I'm having trouble downloading the SDK - my browser is treating the  executable as a text file.   Details:  & RABBIT, a Digital Personal WorkStation VMS V7.3
 Mozilla 0.9.7a TCP/IP V5.1, ECO3a  @ Is anyone else having this problem (I've successfully downloadedB patches and kits from the COMPAQ web sites in the past, using this setup)?    Thanks,u
 Brad HamiltonS9 GOOGLE does not necessarily agree with anything I post...V   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B74@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...l > Hello All, > I > As a fyi - the latest Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alphae > is now available.w > E > http://www.compaq.com/java/alpha/index.html (Main Compaq Alpha Javam > Page) E > http://www.compaq.com/java/documentation/1.3.1/ovms/docs/INDEX.HTMLa > (Documentation)mJ > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/jdk ovms/1.3.1/j2sdk1.3.1 highlights > html (JDK 1.3.1-1 highlights)aJ > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/fastvm ovms/1.3.1/fvm131 highlights.# > html (Fast VM 1.3.1-1 highlights) F > http://www.compaq.com/java/contact/index.html#OpenVMS (Contact Info) > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantw > Compaq Canada Corp.  > Professional Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660h > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:32:02 -0500v  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>L Subject: Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available4 Message-ID: <1020115212710.372B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  $ On 15 Jan 2002, Brad Hamilton wrote:  E > I'm having trouble downloading the SDK - my browser is treating thee > executable as a text file. > 
 > Details: > ( > RABBIT, a Digital Personal WorkStation
 > VMS V7.3 > Mozilla 0.9.7. > TCP/IP V5.1, ECO3s > B > Is anyone else having this problem (I've successfully downloadedD > patches and kits from the COMPAQ web sites in the past, using this	 > setup)?i > 	 > Thanks,t > Brad Hamiltono; > GOOGLE does not necessarily agree with anything I post...b  @ I just downloaded CSWS and Java a couple of days ago.  I had the: same problem with one of them (I forget which.)  The other@ downloaded fine just by clicking on the link.  Must be something different in the HTML?  A Alphastation 200 4/100 w/DEC Unix 4.0d and Netscape 4.73 browser./  ? I right-clicked and selected "save link as", and that seemed tou@ work okay.  (I am in the middle of installing the SDK right now.> Unpacked and seemed to install okay on the 1st system.  FastVM is next...)    >  > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B74@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...  > > Hello All, > > K > > As a fyi - the latest Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alphaf > > is now available.e > > G > > http://www.compaq.com/java/alpha/index.html (Main Compaq Alpha Javav	 > > Page)iG > > http://www.compaq.com/java/documentation/1.3.1/ovms/docs/INDEX.HTML  > > (Documentation)eL > > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/jdk ovms/1.3.1/j2sdk1.3.1 highlights! > > html (JDK 1.3.1-1 highlights)uL > > http://www.compaq.com/java/download/fastvm ovms/1.3.1/fvm131 highlights.% > > html (Fast VM 1.3.1-1 highlights)mH > > http://www.compaq.com/java/contact/index.html#OpenVMS (Contact Info) > >  > > Regards, > >  > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant- > > Compaq Canada Corp.1 > > Professional Servicesm > > Voice: 613-592-4660o > > Fax  :  819-772-7036  > > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >    -- 0 John Santos> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:31:06 +0100i, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>, Subject: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop& Message-ID: <3C449F9A.BD3CAA6A@gmx.ch>  O I have just terminated a FOR loop for DCL (because Hoff said it was missing [in  page 2 of his book] :-)e  ; I hide the initialization code and post only the main code:=  
 $ set noon4 $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Enter number of loops" $ gosub INIT $ imax = p1L $LOOP: $ 'for' i = 1 to imax  $    show time
 $ 'next' i $ exit $! $INIT: ../..U $ return   $ @for_next_demo 3   15-JAN-2002 19:30Y   15-JAN-2002 19:30    15-JAN-2002 19:30  $   # Who will write the right INIT code?n   :-)$   Didier "I love VMS" M. -- =G   ---------------------------------------------------------------------tE MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.html/E Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670n/ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.a  H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken  / Available _worldwide_ on the 1st of April 2002.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:33:35 -0500-( From: Francisco Moore <moore@uakron.edu>Y Subject: Re: Does anyone know a way of getting version 7.2  to support the Oxygen vx1 gra ) Message-ID: <3C44A02F.5040100@uakron.edu>    Thanks to you both,1= I now know the path of least resistance. I'll Upgrade to 7.3.n -pacor     Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  7 > "Francisco Moore" <moore@uakron.edu> wrote in message2% > news:3C3BDA8B.9000106@uakron.edu...w > 	 >>Hi all, I >>I just picked up a ds20 and have installed version 7.2 off the hobbyist F >>cd. My Oxygen Vx1 graphics card is not supported. I can find the Vx1I >>patches for just about every release except 7.2. Has anyone solved this  >>problem before?L >> >  > Hoff gave a good explanation.  > G > In short, when we have new hardware we tend to check it into the nextcK > release, and where possible we generate patch kits for previous releases.tJ > Even though the bits may be exactly the same for each release we do thisL > for, it means that we have to build a release-specific kit so that all theL > tracking tools work, and so that we can reconstruct the exact bits that weJ > shipped for any given release - note that each release may use different > compilers, etc.p > K > To keep that managable, we only go back so far.  We try to make sure thateN > the most widely used versions get a patch.  For V7.2x, which is the previousN > minor version from the current one, we created a consolidated release calledF > V7.2-2 where we will do most if not all future maintenance for V7.2x > customers. > H > Now, in this particular case, the graphics bits will work in any V7.2xJ > release.  So, go to the patch site and find a V7.2x version of an updateK > kit, and you can extract the graphics components by hand, and put them in I > the right place.  But better still, would be to upgrade to V7.2-2 or toeN > V7.3 - I recommend V7.3 - which will get you the bits without doing anything
 > special. >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:59:50 -0500g% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>tJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?, Message-ID: <3C448A27.2F33BD67@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:L > Our plans for the IPF port have not changed, and the merger did not changeI > them.  The OpenVMS port is not dependent on the merger happening or notc > happening.  H The problem I have is that I do not trust the folks above Marcello. TheyL killed Alpha and Tru64 to please other companies breaking their own previousH commitments, so current commitments by Marcello and below have no value.  L > No downgrade of VMS is planned.  Try to be somewhat objective.  OpenVMS on1 > Alpha and IPF should be functionally identical.   L But IPF is inferior to Alpha and years behind for the types of features that? the remaining VMS customer base expects. (Wildfire type stuff).e  N When you look at how long it took to finish the Digital work to get a WildfireC to market, do you think that Compaq will fund VMS specific hardwarea> development faster than it funded the completion of Wildfire ?  J The remaining VMS costomers don't want to boot VMS on a proliant box. TheyN want to boot galaxies on some wildfire type of system. So your porting projectM won't be of much use until customers can actually get IA64 hardware that willa. replace the  big alpha iron they already have.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 14:37:48 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)n> Subject: Re: Films and Books. [was Re: Younger recruits versus. Message-ID: <jFrgurqsedNw@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  _ In article <01KD42ARDO36002G5M@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>, <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> writes:s > Steve Spires wrote:o > J >>I was going to suggest the Bond movies but then I wondered just how many- >>people have actually READ any of the books?a >      I have.l    P > I'm glad that Steve changed the subject line.  "The demise of Compaq" subject L > went so OT and even the OT went OT, and the OT OT went OT  I've just come N > back from a month away and I leave info-vax to accumulate -- I hate to miss K > the fun :-)  A VMSmail "pick" on "demise" gave me nearly 300 responses.   O > Several others which have also transgressed through many OTs came from other   > subject "picks". > ? > O.K., to go OnT to the OT, and to answer Steve's question :-)s > O > I read several of the Fleming books when I was about 15 in the '50s.  Though dN > I enjoy reading Shakespeare and Dickens and other classics, I found Fleming M > very heavy for that genre, a). at a young age when I was looking for light  N > adventure stories and b). wanting light relief in the midst of doing UK GCE  > exams. >     K I read many of the Bond books back in the 60s/70s, but I actually liked the L Matt Helm series (The Ambushers, The Ravagers, The Wrecking Crew, etc.) muchJ better.  I thought Helm was a much more realistic character, and he didn'tO always jump in with both feet and get captured the way Bond did.  Note that the2N Matt Helm of the novels had absolutely nothing in common with the Matt Helm ofM the movies, who was really Dean Martin Helm.  The written series consisted ofi. real spy novels, as opposed to dopey comedies.     -- sO ===============================================================================eM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxa: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)bO ===============================================================================nN Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:15:15 +0000i1 From: Steve Wright <usenet@wrightnet.demon.co.uk> ! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure? 4 Message-ID: <dPoYUHHjQNR8EwSb@wrightnet.demon.co.uk>  < In message <3C410D2D.3040306@qsl.network>, John E. Malmberg  <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes  >Alphaman wrote: >nN >> Yes -- Copy/FTP _does_ return a $STATUS symbol, and it works extremely wellM >> in this regard.  I use it extensively with On Warning... to manage copies.vN >> The only thing you've got to watch out for when copying to an IBM system is >> file name case. >a > H >Unless you use a two step procedure to FTP copy to a temp filename and I >then rename it, you run the risk that the remote system will attempt to   >process an incomplete file. >  >-John >wb8tyw@qsl.network  >Personal Opinion Only >eD We use a procedure whereby we transfer a data file and then a check F file. The check file contains the record count of the data file and a G copy of the last record. The receiving system can then check to see if  E received the entire file or just part of it. Until the check file is MA transmitted, the receiving system will not process the data file.m  H It is possible to receive part of a file when the receiving system runs @ out of disk space. Even when we had plenty of disk space on the I receiving system, we have manage to transfer an empty check file or data s, file and got a success status from COPY/FTP. -- r Steve Wright   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:42:00 -0500i% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>uD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C4485FB.7430E1F7@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote:  > K > This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsFJ > Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,4 > Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!    N Sorry, I do not share your opinion.  Compaq's responses were nothing but spin.  J Compaq says that Gartner exagerated the porting costs by 500%. Yet, CompaqN admits that the engineering will cost about $40 which agrees with what GartnerJ said. But what the VMS group doesn't talk about are all the other costs ofL that port. (help to ISV's performance promises to customers which may resultM in many IA64 boxes give out for free), heavy discounts to the remaining Alpha P lmachines since Alpha is no longer attractive, all sorts of customer education .  K And then there are the layered products. Each layered product (Compaq still5M has some) will also have to be ported, tested and validated. Compaq will alsot& have to re-invent Wildfires once more.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 JAN 2002 20:04:41 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!6 Message-ID: <15JAN02.20044185@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  U In a previous article, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:aj ->In article <d7791aa1.0201150901.661eef67@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:L ->>This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsK ->>Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,n5 ->>Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!  ->>s* ->>http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm ->> # ->>Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"g ->  K ->I get nothing but a blank in the area where I'd expect to see the text ofn> ->this article.  Is the link correct or is theinquirer broken?  + Works here with Mozilla 0.9.5 on VMS 7.2-1.8   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 19:30:55 -08001 From: Susan_Skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski)tD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!= Message-ID: <c83dd601.0201151930.749a5fe5@posting.google.com>f  Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C4485FB.7430E1F7@videotron.ca>...l > Bob Ceculski wrote:  > > M > > This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessments4L > > Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,6 > > Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book! >   F JF how do you know its all spin?  Do you know more about the agreementA with Intel and the different agreements that Compaq has made withlB them, if so please let us know we are interested.  Mark Gorham hasD talked to Gartner and gave them detailed information.  Mark does notD lie.  However as with anyone including analysts, press, or newsgroupF people, they can say what ever they want.  It does not mean that it is% useful, accurate,informed or helpful.i  D People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People canB belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more information on the topic?:   suem     > P > Sorry, I do not share your opinion.  Compaq's responses were nothing but spin. > L > Compaq says that Gartner exagerated the porting costs by 500%. Yet, CompaqP > admits that the engineering will cost about $40 which agrees with what GartnerL > said. But what the VMS group doesn't talk about are all the other costs ofN > that port. (help to ISV's performance promises to customers which may resultO > in many IA64 boxes give out for free), heavy discounts to the remaining AlphaeR > lmachines since Alpha is no longer attractive, all sorts of customer education . > M > And then there are the layered products. Each layered product (Compaq still:O > has some) will also have to be ported, tested and validated. Compaq will also ( > have to re-invent Wildfires once more.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 22:41:39 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)aD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!3 Message-ID: <GWkLKhrlwcj2@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  T In article <3C4485FB.7430E1F7@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: > Bob Ceculski wrote:) >>  L >> This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsK >> Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,05 >> Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!c >  > P > Sorry, I do not share your opinion.  Compaq's responses were nothing but spin. >    	No... you are wrong.a  G 	There are -claims- in that piece, perhaps you care to provide evidencepG 	to refute some of those claims?  That is what Compaq went about doing./B 	Providing rebuttal to what Gartner penned using facts and figures( 	where they could and where appropriate.  < 	For instance , a strong example of that from the main body:  L Gartner assessment: "according to Compaq's records, [OpenVMS installed base]G stands at 400,000 systems although we believe active production systemsIH could be 30 percent to 40 percent lower, with a large-enough maintenanceL revenue stream (estimated at more than $1 billion annually) that is too high
 to ignore.  A 	Gartner claims Compaq has 400K systems and $1 billion in service 	 	revenue.   I Compaq response:  We corrected the 400,000 to 411,000, and the $1 billionDK estimated maintenance revenue stream to $2 billion.  Neither correction was1K incorporated in the final report.  Additionally, we added government/public'G sector to the list of mission-critical environments, which also was notcK included.  The source of the comment about the active production systems isS5 unknown and we strongly disagree with the assessment.O  = 	Compaq claims they told them 411K and $2 billion in revenue.o  A 	Gartner is clearly guilty of downplaying the revenue.  Note thatsB 	Compaq provided them the figures.  By raising this as a rebuttal,? 	Compaq is demonstrating that Gartner is playing fast and looseaA 	with figures.  Gartner *clearly* dissed the $2 billion figure byt8 	tossing "estimated at more than $1 billion annually".    9 	Also, Gartner isn't sourcing anything.  They claim that  H 	"active systems" are 30-40% lower than the 411K figure and yet nowhere A 	do they substantiate that claim.  Rumour mongering?  Surely not!e  I Gartner assessment: Currently, no conclusive answers to these issues haven come from Compaq.  i  A 	Gartner claims that Compaq wasn't "conclusive" in their answers.K? 	What weasle words.  Former lawyers turned IT analysts or what?1  I Compaq response: The information in this document was provided to Gartner,J and ignored. Senior Compaq management will be reviewing this rebuttal with Gartner.  B 	Compaq claims that not only did they provide rebuttle but Gartner 	chose to ignore it.  B 	Finally, much of that Gartner piece reads worse than comp.arch or 	comp.os.vms at its worst:  L Gartner assessment: "Grafting it [OpenVMS] onto the Itanium processor family: (IPF) is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole."  I Compaq response: This is not a "graft", it is a full port, which is quite L achievable as a result of all the work we have been doing since 1991 to make OpenVMS more portablet  ; 	Think about this for a second... you are a double-breastednF 	buttoned-down executive paying big bucks for a "technical" assessment. 	and part of the critque you are reading says:  O "Grafting OpenVMS onto the Itanium processor family (IPF) is like trying to fit  a square peg in a round hole."   	"Oh!"  I feel faint . . .B 	The razor sharp analysis is making my head spin.  Bleeeeccchhh!!!   				Robg  N "Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both*  time and peace of mind."         --Goethe   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:24:13 -0500e% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>pD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C450E6F.7DF0E490@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:H > JF how do you know its all spin?  Do you know more about the agreementC > with Intel and the different agreements that Compaq has made with D > them, if so please let us know we are interested.  Mark Gorham has8 > talked to Gartner and gave them detailed information.   M But that information gave only the point of view of engineering for the port.tN There is a much greater dimention with regards to the killing of Alpha and the= forced migration to a chip that is still mostly just in beta.0  I For instance, Garner agrees with Compaq'ms statement that the port of VMSCL itself will cost 40 million.  (Yet Compaq retorks that Gartner inflates thatJ number by 500%). What Gartner is saying is that there are many other costs associated with this migration.   H When you consider the costs of whatever deals and promises and garanteesE Compaq is making to get those who purchase Alphas now to have a cheaptJ migration to IA64, and all the other associated costs for a migration (ISVL help etc), the other costs for porting of Compaq layered products,  then theN costs are greater than just the engineering costs of recompiling VMS to IA64. K Don't know if the Gartner total is overblown or not, but the Compaq figurestI that talk only about VMS engineering are definitely incomplete. Oh, and IyN forgot: how much will the redesign of the Wildfire style of mainframes cost to have thsoe run with IA64 ?   > Mark does not lie.  D So, you know him on a first name basis eh ????  (rumour , rumour :-)  L Mark is not lying. He is only giving the picture of VMS engineering efforts.M And Gartner agrees with that figure. It is simply that Gartner looked outsidenL of Mark Gorham's sand box to see many other costs associated with that port.  M I ask you: did All-IN-1 group get additional funding to port their software ?t  F > People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People canD > belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more > information on the topic?e    - The problem is that the VMS group != Compaq. o VMS group = nice
 Compaq = evill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:43:40 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>cD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C4512FD.DB69B9FE@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:K > Compaq response:  We corrected the 400,000 to 411,000, and the $1 billion 7 > estimated maintenance revenue stream to $2 billion.  i  , Agree about the maintenance revenus stream.   M However in terms of number of VMS machines, whether 400,000 or 411,000 is notdL what is important. What is important is the fact that Gartner mentioned thatH it suspects that a non trivial percentage of those numbers are no longer active customers.e  N Compaq did not provide any information on what exactly that 411,000 number wasM derived.  Does that include former customers who still have licences to theirD" names with such licences unused ?   L Does it include customers on self-maintenance ? It would be most interestingI to get a number of customers and average number of machines per customer.eH Along with that, the number of customers who have maintenance contracts.    M About the Gartner prediction that there is an 80 chance that the port to IA64a' predicted for 2003/2004 won't succeed. e  J While I have no doubts that VMS engineer will be able to recompile VMS forL IA64, and that budgets to complete such a port are somewhat creedible unlessI Carly makes some rash decisions, where Gartner may have a point is in thed schedule of such a delivery.  L The remaining VMS customers may not be interested in VMS runnning on a smallK Proliant with a Merced slow as molasses chip in it. Such a system is prettyd/ certain to be available with VMS by 2003-/2004.n  K What is not so certain is whether Intel will be able to deliver *ON-TIME* aiI chip that has respectable performance and the features necessary to buildt' Wildfire-style machines that customers.   H In that respect, perhaps Gartner has a point that there is a signifiacntN chance that Compaq won't be able to deliver VMS on a respectable IA64 platformN by the 2003-2004 time frame. (even though VMS will be running on whatever IA64 is available at that time).f   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 23:44:18 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)-D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!3 Message-ID: <EZkpr8ujg+xO@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  T In article <3C450E6F.7DF0E490@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: > Sue Skonetski wrote:I >> JF how do you know its all spin?  Do you know more about the agreement D >> with Intel and the different agreements that Compaq has made withE >> them, if so please let us know we are interested.  Mark Gorham hasO9 >> talked to Gartner and gave them detailed information. f > O > But that information gave only the point of view of engineering for the port.a  C 	No.. It ALSO gives facts and figures.  Quit trying to spin things.r   > the killing of Alpha    ! 	Alpha murder - minus ten points.   K > For instance, Garner agrees with Compaq'ms statement that the port of VMSsN > itself will cost 40 million.  (Yet Compaq retorks that Gartner inflates thatL > number by 500%). What Gartner is saying is that there are many other costs! > associated with this migration.n >   A 	Yeah... they just can't detail them, much like most of what they ! 	wrote.  Unsubstantiated puffery.U   >> Mark does not lie.  > F > So, you know him on a first name basis eh ????  (rumour , rumour :-) >  	What a cheap shot.  Typical.T  N > Mark is not lying. He is only giving the picture of VMS engineering efforts.O > And Gartner agrees with that figure. It is simply that Gartner looked outsiderN > of Mark Gorham's sand box to see many other costs associated with that port. > @ 	You are focusing on one part of a long missive.  That's all you 	have.  Spin on.  G >> People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People can.E >> belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more= >> information on the topic? >  > / > The problem is that the VMS group != Compaq. a > VMS group = nice > Compaq = evilx    A 	Wrong.  VMS clearly has Compaq senior management support on thiso 	one:u  I Compaq response: The information in this document was provided to Gartner=J and ignored. Senior Compaq management will be reviewing this rebuttal with Gartner.   	Spin that one.    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:24:46 -05001% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C451C9C.E503CE57@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:K > Compaq response: The information in this document was provided to Gartner>L > and ignored. Senior Compaq management will be reviewing this rebuttal with
 > Gartner.    # "will" is something in the future.    L Senior management would have answered in real-time quite publicly if GartnerI had falsely attacked Compaq's wintel products.  But they probably didn'.tsL notice this report and I suspect that VMS management had to work hard to get= some sort of senior management "we'll look into it" response.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:51:50 +0000e% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>u: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC' Message-ID: <3C447A46.4BB4451C@iee.org>e   Peter da Silva wrote:l > N > In article <0Dw08.146$na5.13643@news.xtra.co.nz>, AG <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote:M > >Now, that's getting totally ridiculous. Try telling that to your users whotG > >have just typed in "peter" and come running to you complaining aboutbI > >the so and so system that, for some inscrutable reason, refuses to letp< > >them access the same "Peter" file they have just created. > O > In over 20 years as a programmer, system administrator, tech support guy, andeN > just general "the guy you run to when things don't work" I have never to theL > best of my recall had anyone come running to me with that kind of problem.M > Given some of the things I've had to explain to people, that's really quiteg
 > amazing.  6 You need new users otherwise you'll be out of work :-)  & This cropped up yesterday in an email:  * > WWW.TRAVEL.STATE.GOV/VISA_SERVICES.HTML    So it *does* happen ...s   Antonio.   -- r   ---------------a- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org!   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 15:32:03 -0600+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)a Subject: Re: https client api03 Message-ID: <LwHWRD$+whc7@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <3C4364A6.F736BF65@bellsouth.net>, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net> writes:  > James Gessling wrote:p >> (< >> This might do what you want.  There is a VMS version too. >> n >> http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/e >> aN >> We are trying to use it for some programatic client stuff.  The programmers >> seem to think >> it's pretty promising.  >> t >> Jim >> l >> Chris Sharman wrote:e >> r3 >> > What are the choices of https client for vms ?p >> >L >> > I've found lynx (which appears to do it), and fish (which appears to beP >> > unobtainable - www.free.lp.se is unreachable, although it's referenced from$ >> > various other sites & the faq). >> >= >> > We have to download files from an https web page hourly.lP >> > We have a script which someone wrote for us for ie, which does the job, but! >> > we'd like to move it to vms. J >> > Is there an https client which we can easily script to run in batch ? >> > >> > Thanks> >> > Chris Sharman >  > 9 > Although on the download page is says SSL = NO for VMS.r >   D After some creative beating I did get cURL to work for my V7.3 AlphaC VMS system.  I use it to POST credit card validation sequences to arF clearing bank via https.  Works for me, but since some of the code hasE routines with the same name, except for case change, I had to compile  everything /name=as_is.  '   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:58:33 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)i< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201151358.12256f96@posting.google.com>.  Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C43EE6A.BDDD4C66@videotron.ca>...e > sms@antinode.org wrote:9I > >    It would be nice to get an authoratative statement on what will ben0 > > required to maintain a VMS Hobbyist license. > O > What I would like is simply a garantee that existing hobbyist licence holdershO > will be able to continue to renew with whatever number they started with.  If.I > a chapter dies, former members of that chapter should not be penalised.!  D 	Consider it guaranteed.  We don't delete the membership information6 for anyone that has registered for a Hobbyist License.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 14:06:38 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)t< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201151406.6bb56dd7@posting.google.com>c  B I've already mailed a couple of people on this, and I guess I need, to put something on the Hobbyist web page...  G sms@antinode.org wrote in message news:<02011421572720@antinode.org>... 1 > From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)m > J > > I think I will be letting my membership lapse and when the time comes,J > > begrudgingly convert my AlphaStation 200/233 back to WinNT (or perhapsJ > > Win2K).  For this individual member, $79.00/year is too much to add to
 > > my hobby.  > > F > > As far as I can tell, the Associate level does not qualify for the > > Hobby license. > G >    It would be nice to get an authoratative statement on what will be J > required to maintain a VMS Hobbyist license.  I just got a reminder thatJ > my Encompass membership will be dying at the end of June, and suggestingH > that I pay "only" $79 by the end of January.  $79/year looks like lessJ > of a bargain than the $0/year I have been paying for the sole purpose of2 > qualifying for the VMS Hobbyist license program.  D 	It's my understanding that the Associate "membership" qualifies forE Hobbyist Program access.  Compaq is strongly in favor of this programb beinga% freely available to the participants.   D 	Which addresses another point:  Encompass does not own the HobbyistA Program.  Compaq "owns" the Hobbyist Program, since they make thee rules.B The Dallas/Ft. Worth Compaq User Group and Montagar Software (me!) simply? manage the program under their watchful eye to benefit not onlya
 Encompass,> but several other DECUS Chapters and OpenVMS users world-wide.  rH >    VMS Hobbyists would benefit from a similar scheme, where (at least)B > major VMS releases (ideally with a greater assortment of layeredE > products) were made available for a comparable fee.  How old is theuG > V7.2 kit?  More than two years?  The single-CD-ROM kits from MontagartH > sure beat laying out hundreds of dollars for the full kit from Compaq,H > but the Tru64 program sure beats the VMS program in this neighborhood.  @ 	We are looking at doing an OpenVMS V7.3 release soon, but we'reB currently waiting on the release of OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 (might as well get the latest).   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:06:21 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?) Message-ID: <02011519062169@antinode.org>   + From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)1  B > 	It's my understanding that the Associate "membership" qualifiesC > for Hobbyist Program access.  Compaq is strongly in favor of thisu5 > program being freely available to the participants.p > [...] B > 	We are looking at doing an OpenVMS V7.3 release soon, but we'reI > currently waiting on the release of OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 (might as welld > get the latest).  E    Sounds good to me.  Thanks for the clarification (and all the work E behind it).  Let me know if you need an independent CD-ROM inspector.d  ) From: dittman@dittman.net  (Eric Dittman)l  = > One big difference between the Tru64 Enthusiast program andd; > the OpenVMS Hobbyist program is you get a large number ofs6 > layered products with the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses.  @    For example, TCPIP?  Both programs have some advantages.  TheG availability of frequent, complete, reasonably priced CD-ROM kits is anr  advantage of the Tru464 program.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)nC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)"9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 03:30:14 GMTi) From: Gary in MA <yotta@mediaone.invalid>n< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?; Message-ID: <at618.2413$Ln2.795935@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>    Andy Stoffel posted:  9 > Just a question to the assembled masses on comp.os.vms.p > > > I used to have a "basic" membership in DECUS (the non-paying@ > one) and I don't recall it being of much value other than just? > something to have and I think it gave me the ability to vote.e [snip] pH > So..... if I sign up for the "Associate" membership...... will I still@ > be eligible for the VMS Hobbyist licenses ? It's not mentionedB > anywhere that I can see..... & that's the only value, right now,> > that I can see in an Encompass membership for an individual. > 0 > Just wondering what other people thought...... >  > -Andy- > --  E As a recent retiree who cannot justfy the membership fees, I had the sA same concerns. I filled out the online associate application and eE eventually received the following response. The ID number matches my e' original (pre alphabetic) DECUS number.a   -Garyh  
 > ID # nnnnnna >  > Dear Gary: > G > Welcome to Encompass!  Your associate application has been processed - and-C > your Associate ID is listed above.  We apologize for the delay in<1 > processing, and sending you your Associate ID. l > E > In a few days, you will be able to access the VMS Hobbyist license d usingcF > your ID number.  More information about that program can be found atF > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/.  Over the next few months, be on  theCE > lookout for changes to our web site, www.EncompassUS.org, and otherdB > communications from the Board of Directors and our headquarters  office.  > C > If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to  
 contact us< > at Information@EncompassUS.org or call us at 877-354-9887. > 
 > Sincerely, d >  > Encompass Headquarters   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:13:45 -0500a' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org> < Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?, Message-ID: <3C450C09.D68C8881@ui.urban.org>  
 cjt wrote: >  > I give it six months.d  * Encompass has existed for over a year now.   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/) ' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)o. ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:30:10 +0000f% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org> ' Subject: Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet) ' Message-ID: <3C448342.37BA722B@iee.org>A   JF Mezei wrote: M > On VMS, it seems to be reading only the 8.3 file specs. The problem is thataL > those are HTML files where the URLS inside the files all point to the fullE > file specifications. (so links in those html files would all fail).e  0 I don't believe that OpenVMS has any support for2 Joliet (and I don't know of any plans to add any).. I did find (at least part of) the Joliet specs1 (on one of the MSDN Library CDs IIRC) a few yearse4 ago and it did not look too hard to drop in support.1 I suspect that finding the resources to do it andn test it is the hard part.t   > Another question:o > < > The volume name of the disk is : "01_08_22_15_16 (1 of 1)"N > (as per the messages when I try to mount it /SYSTEM and it tells me that the; > volume label I supplied in the mount command is invalid).a  , I've worked around similar issues before now
 by using : 	$ MOUNT/BIND=label_I_like ...     Antonioe   -- q   ----------------- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org2   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:41:35 -0500n% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>r' Subject: Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet)E, Message-ID: <3C44BE2E.8B5A0531@videotron.ca>   "a.carlini" wrote:3 > (on one of the MSDN Library CDs IIRC) a few yearsa6 > ago and it did not look too hard to drop in support.3 > I suspect that finding the resources to do it andn > test it is the hard part.n  M Ironic that your employer, so enamoured with anything microsoft and intel hashN the money to spend to port VMS, but won't budget for functionality which wouldM add support for a microsoft proprietary format for CDs. (and while at it, addiL support for rockhound).  This in light of VMS supporting weird and wonderful file names with ODS-5.  I This is one area where VMS consistently lags behind everyone. Where s then+ support for DVDs, new ISO9660 formats etc ?d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:14:02 +0000c% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>t' Subject: Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet)c' Message-ID: <3C44C5CA.44D40C3B@iee.org>c   JF Mezei wrote:a >  > "a.carlini" wrote:5 > > (on one of the MSDN Library CDs IIRC) a few yearsh8 > > ago and it did not look too hard to drop in support.5 > > I suspect that finding the resources to do it and  > > test it is the hard part.n > / > Ironic that your employer, so enamoured with m" > anything microsoft and intel has! > the money to spend to port VMS,n  * I'm not with Compaq anymore, so don't take& anything I might have said as informed# inside opinion rather than just thea random guess it really is!  P >                                 but won't budget for functionality which wouldO > add support for a microsoft proprietary format for CDs. (and while at it, addhN > support for rockhound).  This in light of VMS supporting weird and wonderful > file names with ODS-5. > K > This is one area where VMS consistently lags behind everyone. Where s thee- > support for DVDs, new ISO9660 formats etc ?e  & I would like to see Joliet support but$ I can quite understand that it's not" likely to be anywhere near the top$ of the list of development projects.  ( It would be nice if it were feasible for% users to develop their own extensionsn to do this sort of thing.    Antonior   -- t   ---------------k- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgc   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:17:06 -0400:+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>o' Subject: Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet)h0 Message-ID: <3C44AA62.4488839@trailing-edge.com>   JF Mezei wrote:h >  > "a.carlini" wrote:5 > > (on one of the MSDN Library CDs IIRC) a few yearsa8 > > ago and it did not look too hard to drop in support.5 > > I suspect that finding the resources to do it and  > > test it is the hard part.t > O > Ironic that your employer, so enamoured with anything microsoft and intel hasiP > the money to spend to port VMS, but won't budget for functionality which would9 > add support for a microsoft proprietary format for CDs.e  ? ??? Why aren't you also complaining that VMS doesn't have built > in file systems for MS-DOS?  You do have ISO9660 support, just= not the support for the hundreds of different extensions thatY have come down the pike.  ? (You gotta remember, I was complaining a couple years back thatf% Alpha VMS was lacking ODS-1 support!)    Tim.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:11:04 -0500h% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>y' Subject: Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet) , Message-ID: <3C450B5B.6B77D6A1@videotron.ca>   Tim Shoppa wrote:sA > ??? Why aren't you also complaining that VMS doesn't have builts@ > in file systems for MS-DOS?  You do have ISO9660 support, just? > not the support for the hundreds of different extensions thato > have come down the pike.  G It is just that it would be nice if VMSwould be able to server a greatee variety of modern disk formats.i  H Note that I have no idea how common Joliet is. I got this one CD from asK router manufacturer (Netgear) and they were nice enough to include a readmeVJ file for macintosh users to tell me where to get the extention to read the joliet format.  L In the long term, an OS will have to be flexible enough to be able to handleL evolving media standards.  CD, DVDs and whatever else will be coming out wayI in the next 5 years. Heck, VMS shoudl also be able to handle those PCMCIA4I disks or even those sony Memory sticks (which, once VMS gets USB support,oF should be technically possible to plug into VMS with just an adaptor).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:27:27 -0000i3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>e1 Subject: Re: linux drivers for hz70 storage arrayr. Message-ID: <a21vm7$36m$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>  + "yuvi" <yuviz@hotmail.com> wrote in messagea7 news:74fe26e2.0201142327.2ff9eae7@posting.google.com...aF > Does anyone know if thre are drivers for HZ70 storage array linux on alpha?  > any help would be appreciated. >e Drivers?  H Anyway, it's Linux! It should just work as the volumes on the controller just appear to be SCSI disks.  > You will need a differential SCSI adapter for your system. SeeI http://www.compaq.com/support/storage/open_vendor/support/docv70.html forn5 HSZ70 documentation. Including the SCSI specs for it.e  J If you get the cards and cabling right (and set up the array...) it should be easy.  J Well, I guess it should! (This is a VMS newsgroup after all. I just dabble	 in Linux)r  	 -Malcolm.v  
 >    yuvi.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:48:16 -0500e5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheesee. Message-ID: <cU_08.47$PZ4.45@news.cpqcorp.net>  D Malcolm Dunnett wrote in message <$7Ag8VBZo8Nl@malvm6.mala.bc.ca>...0 >In article <Mp_08.46$PZ4.306@news.cpqcorp.net>,< >    "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >hK >> I imagine this is the same deal as any big merger.  You identify the keypG >> people who you believe that the combined companies must retain to bel= >> successful, and then you give them an incentive to remain.  >>J >   So folks like Fred and Hoff should be in line for a few million apiece then >I suppose :-) >-  H Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.  I don't want anyone in a position to be able toL grant me that kind of money to even know my name.  The sword cuts both ways.E Besides, if someone were to give me, say, $10million dollars - I'd bewH planning my retirement (requirements: warm weather, oceanfront property,A adjacent golf course ;-) for the day after the retention expired.s  < After you have a sufficient amount of money, who needs work?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:03:13 -0500r% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheesek, Message-ID: <3C448AF3.F439CAF1@videotron.ca>   David Mathog wrote:oA > In that article we find that an addition 575 - 55 = 520 million>? > dollars has been allocated to pay off another 6000 employees.h    K If HP-Compaq has to start paying employees to stay, it might mean a seriousrI morale problem at HP-Compaq who may not support this silly merger, and of N course, HP may alreadh have begun to lose the most valued employees (those who  can easily find jobs elsewhere).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:04:20 -0500c% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheeseS, Message-ID: <3C448B35.1EC2B638@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > I imagine this is the same deal as any big merger.  You identify the keyF > people who you believe that the combined companies must retain to be< > successful, and then you give them an incentive to remain.  Y That implies that employees do not support such a merger and will seek to work elsewhere.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:03:16 GMT:4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheeseo0 Message-ID: <3C448A31.896FB5AA@blueyonder.co.uk>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > J > I imagine this is the same deal as any big merger.  You identify the keyF > people who you believe that the combined companies must retain to be< > successful, and then you give them an incentive to remain.  d you mean key like customers?     --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of t! my employers or service provider.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:12:56 -0600o( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>: Subject: Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths2 Message-ID: <a21rf8$101$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>  K On 14 Jan 2002 20:58:38 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:c   >> aP >> However, our vendor is telling us we should be doing it the other way around.. >> Mount the devices first, then set the path. >> n >> Anyone have any ideas?a >> i >  >	Yes. > > >	I would mount, then switch.  I would also check to make sureC >	the path was/is available even if you had to do something kludgy.7@ >	Saying that, I doubt you can switch it to a non-existent path. >o  L O.K., but why?  If you mount the device and then switch the path, the volumeK will go into mount verification until the path switch is complete.  I looksaI like (admittedly with limited testing and observation) switching the path > first, then mounting the device will not cause a mount verify.  A So, why is it better to do the mount first, then the path switch?l  : >	Also, it looks to me like you are attempting to help outB >	availability.  But we know paths will switch over automatically: >h   [snip]  L Yes, I am aware of that.  What I am really trying to do is help performance.L I have seen smaller (or non-existant) disk queues after I made the effort to$ spread the I/Os over multiple paths.  J What I did is look at the switch ports and see which ones weren't busy andI move devices to those ports.  Yes, this is a very static pass and doesn'tiM prevent the automatic path switching from happening.  It also doesn't help isyK a path I have specified has failed for any reason.  But my experience is ass: you stated above, you can't switch to a non-existant path.   [snip]  ? >	What I would like to see (or do) is to write a C program thatGD >	would dynamically load balance according to configuration criteria> >	or default to given criteria... but the more I thought about? >	it , I realized with multiple nodes, multiple paths, multipleb= >	HBAs the complexity would quickly grow!  and perhaps is why E >	there is a SET DEVICE/PATH command for the end-user to tinker with.d >s  K I was hoping in the F$GETDVI lexical was going to have the path information L added in V7.3, but I don't see it there.  I see the $DEVICE_PATH_SCAN systemH service is available to find the "displayable path" information and someG various item codes for $GETDVI[W] in the V7.3 System Services Referenced+ Manual.  I'll probably have to roll my own.    >				Rob   Thanks,e   Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-62041I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634 G Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999o 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:31:35 +0100. From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>: Subject: Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths& Message-ID: <3C449FB7.3050907@home.nl>   David Harrold wrote:   >Hi All, > L >I am interested in the methods you are using to set the path on a multipathL >fibre channel device.  I have a command procedure that is run during systemO >startup that sets the path on the devices, then later in the startup procedurei >the device will be mounted. >oL >For example, the command procedure is called SET_DGA_PATHS.COM and contains >lines like: >n >$!  >$! SYSTEM01 Devices >$!o; >$ SET DEVICE/SWITCH/PATH=PGA0.5000-1FE1-0009-1934 $1$DGA1:e= >$ SET DEVICE/SWITCH/PATH=PGB0.5000-1FE1-0009-1964 $1$DGA901:f >e$ >Then in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, we have: >-I >$ MOUNT/SYS/NOREBUILD/NOASSIST DSA1 /SHAD=($1$DGA1:,$1$DGA901:) SYSTEM01 	 >SYSTEM01  >1N >However, our vendor is telling us we should be doing it the other way around., >Mount the devices first, then set the path. >4E As others already have stated,  changing the path after a mount will  G result in a mount verification. The same kind of problem is / was also eE present  with CI storage. Just like you I have made a procedure that l) will set the path first, and mount later. C However take care. If you are running a cluster, and a disk can be .F accessed from both (or more) cluster nodes, you should take care that F all nodes access the disk on the same HSG80 port. Otherwise it can be E that the disk will switch over from one port to another all the time.l   >h >t >Anyone have any ideas?h >  >Thanks, >t
 >Dave Harroldi >y > O >..............................................................................lO >David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgwJ >Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204J >                                           Pager:          (414) 941-4634H >Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999 >3031 W. Montana Streeth >Milwaukee, WI 53215 >e   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 23:25:47 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)n: Subject: Re: Managing Multipath Fibre Channel device paths3 Message-ID: <mhLiGMu$N$rl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <a21rf8$101$1@newsreader.mailgate.org>, David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> writes: M > On 14 Jan 2002 20:58:38 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  >  >>> Q >>> However, our vendor is telling us we should be doing it the other way around.e/ >>> Mount the devices first, then set the path.b >>>  >>> Anyone have any ideas? >>>  >> >>	Yes.a >>? >>	I would mount, then switch.  I would also check to make sureoD >>	the path was/is available even if you had to do something kludgy.A >>	Saying that, I doubt you can switch it to a non-existent path.  >> > N > O.K., but why?  If you mount the device and then switch the path, the volumeM > will go into mount verification until the path switch is complete.  I looks K > like (admittedly with limited testing and observation) switching the path1@ > first, then mounting the device will not cause a mount verify. >    	This is correct.   ? 	But when are you mounting?  After reboots and re-incorporating8@ 	shadows or clones.  Simple maintenance is to submit a procedureC 	to batch in both cases.  Assuming all your shadowsets are remerged B 	by 5 a.m. submit the procedure to run at 5:30 a.m.  Now I supposeC 	you could glum all that in your backup... but then you may want to-@ 	do that other than backup.. so you have those set device/switchA 	commands laying all over the place.  Besides, who sees the mountnB 	verify?  Also, if little or no I/O taking place I don't see mountA 	verifys.  Finally, mount verify?  Bah... Mount Verify Timeout is % 	the one to watch out for!  He-he-he.s   > C > So, why is it better to do the mount first, then the path switch?n >   F 	Do the mounts and bust out the path lineups into a separate procedureC 	that you can groom for greatness.  When you run it, it hardly everd 	switches a path anyhow.  ; >>	Also, it looks to me like you are attempting to help outIC >>	availability.  But we know paths will switch over automatically:. >> >  > [snip] > N > Yes, I am aware of that.  What I am really trying to do is help performance.N > I have seen smaller (or non-existant) disk queues after I made the effort to& > spread the I/Os over multiple paths. >   B 	Okay... but with those 2K I/Os you are doing ;-) and assuming 80%C 	throughput on the HBA , you should be able to *sustain* 40000 I/Osu= 	per second.  Maybe that is off a bit, give me 30000 I/Os per > 	second , 20000 I/Os per second worst case?  Point is... disk = 	queues are disk related and in all likelihood you may not be:= 	gaining a whole lot moving to less busy paths, especially ifR# 	other boxes are using those paths.g  9 	How many nodes in your cluster?  How many HBAs per node?   L > What I did is look at the switch ports and see which ones weren't busy andK > move devices to those ports.  Yes, this is a very static pass and doesn't O > prevent the automatic path switching from happening.  It also doesn't help ishM > a path I have specified has failed for any reason.  But my experience is asu< > you stated above, you can't switch to a non-existant path. >  > [snip] > @ >>	What I would like to see (or do) is to write a C program thatE >>	would dynamically load balance according to configuration criteria ? >>	or default to given criteria... but the more I thought abouth@ >>	it , I realized with multiple nodes, multiple paths, multiple> >>	HBAs the complexity would quickly grow!  and perhaps is whyF >>	there is a SET DEVICE/PATH command for the end-user to tinker with. >> > M > I was hoping in the F$GETDVI lexical was going to have the path informationrN > added in V7.3, but I don't see it there.  I see the $DEVICE_PATH_SCAN systemJ > service is available to find the "displayable path" information and someI > various item codes for $GETDVI[W] in the V7.3 System Services Referencea- > Manual.  I'll probably have to roll my own.g >    	Roll your own what?   				Robo   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:24:43 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: Multiple identifiers in SUBSYSTEM ace? / Message-ID: <%l%08.50$PZ4.207@news.cpqcorp.net>r  p In article <6cc41c7.0201150701.18432c78@posting.google.com>, anders_wallin@altavista.com (Anders Wallin) writes:D :I am currently using the VMS protected subsystem mechanism. When myE :"gatekeeper" program executes the SUBSYSTEM identifier is granted ton* :my process for the duration of the image. :rH :Is there a way to get more than one identifier granted by the SUBSYSTEMF :ACE? I have studied the security manual but not found a clear answer. :e :Perhaps something like: :eI :   (SUBSYSTEM,(IDENTIFIER=TOM,ATTR=RESOURCE),(IDENTIFIER=DICK,ATTR=...))t# :   (IDENTIFIER=HARRY, ACCESS=READ)  :   (IDENTIFIER=*, ACCESS=NONE)  :-- :I'm using VMS 7.1, 7.2, 7.2-1, 7.3 on ALPHA.l     From the EDIT/ACL help:-     --  A    Grants additional identifiers to a process while it is running<C    the image to which the Subsystem ACE applies. Users with execute C    access to the image can access objects that are in the protected A    subsystem, such as data files and printers, but only when they D    run the subsystem images. The Subsystem ACE applies to executable    images only.h  /    An example of a Subsystem ACE is as follows:   %    (SUBSYSTEM, IDENTIFIER=ACCOUNTING)r  	    Format   H      (SUBSYSTEM,[OPTIONS=attribute[+attribute...],]IDENTIFIER=identifier  C      [,ATTRIBUTES=attribute[+attribute...]] [,IDENTIFIER=identifiero  1      [,ATTRIBUTES=attribute[+attribute...]],...])         ! Additional information available:t  
 Parameters   --------------- 5 To return to the keypad diagram, press the return keyp% To exit from HELP, press the spacebars8 For help on getting started, press the question mark key, To select the next field, press the keypad 70 To select the next item, press the keypad period        N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:45:50 -0800f6 From: "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com>% Subject: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.u3 Message-ID: <a224f5$j3k$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>k  ? Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge.t
 I'm clueless.  Can anyone help a fella out? I read the FAQJ Tried to telnet into the systems they listed for public access, none work: OpenVMS: axpvms.pa.dec.comd axpvms.cc.utexas.edu OSF/1: axposf.pa.dec.comi axposf.stanford.edue  7 Any other systems available....help files....tutorials?,   TIA, Rick   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:51:49 +0100o9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>M) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.o' Message-ID: <3C449665.C6AA5935@aaa.com>l  ( Goto http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/5 check the "User Guide" Chapter 1 and 2 in particular.7  8 Then say at the interview that you have read quite a bit8 about VMS and it just looks sooo good and you can hardly" wait to begin working with VMS :-)   Jan-Erik Sderholm.u       "news.mindspring.com" wrote: > A > Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge.  > I'm clueless.d > Can anyone help a fella out? ...n ...h > TIA, > Rick   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:17:26 GMTw= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.d0 Message-ID: <00A08168.95D2891D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <a224f5$j3k$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com> writes:@ >Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge.  . ...and you'll absorb so much in a few hours.       >I'm clueless.   Yup.     >Can anyone help a fella out?M >I read the FAQy  @ Obviously you didn't or you'd know where to find a free account.  ! Try: http://www.hobbesthevax.com/     K >Tried to telnet into the systems they listed for public access, none work:g	 >OpenVMS:8 >axpvms.pa.dec.com >axpvms.cc.utexas.edun >OSF/1:  >axposf.pa.dec.com >axposf.stanford.edu  F axpvms.pa.dec.com !!! This was the Alpha program announcement machine. That was early '90s.   >e8 >Any other systems available....help files....tutorials? >  >TIA,g >Ricku >e >f >Try:e  % $ HELP BUFFALOING-THE-FUTURE-EMPLOYERm   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            >J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:29:29 -0500e2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.d/ Message-ID: <q9118.54$PZ4.360@news.cpqcorp.net>w  + http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/r   last newsletter on the web.t   suee    J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A08168.95D2891D@SendSpamHere.ORG...K > In article <a224f5$j3k$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "news.mindspring.com":" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com> writes:B > >Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge. >t. > ...and you'll absorb so much in a few hours. >  >l > >I'm clueless. >e > Yup. >d >  > >Can anyone help a fella out?  > >I read the FAQs > B > Obviously you didn't or you'd know where to find a free account. >m# > Try: http://www.hobbesthevax.com/s >l >mG > >Tried to telnet into the systems they listed for public access, none  work:e > >OpenVMS:  > >axpvms.pa.dec.com > >axpvms.cc.utexas.edu-	 > >OSF/1:- > >axposf.pa.dec.com > >axposf.stanford.edu > H > axpvms.pa.dec.com !!! This was the Alpha program announcement machine. > That was early '90s3 >8 > >E: > >Any other systems available....help files....tutorials? > >h > >TIA,  > >Rick  > >y > >m > >Try:o >d' > $ HELP BUFFALOING-THE-FUTURE-EMPLOYERt >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >vK >   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fierywK >   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes1 >a   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:35:53 GMT>2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast. / Message-ID: <Zg118.57$PZ4.456@news.cpqcorp.net>   l In article <a224f5$j3k$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com> writes:@ :Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge. :I'm clueless. :Can anyone help a fella out?   E   Um, be up-front about your lack of knowledge of OpenVMS -- it wouldME   be far too easy for an experienced OpenVMS user to catch you in anyrC   misrepresentations, and this usually means you won't get the job.5   :I read the FAQiK :Tried to telnet into the systems they listed for public access, none work: 	 :OpenVMS:s :axpvms.pa.dec.com ..  J   I can only assume you are looking at an ancient copy of the OpenVMS FAQ.  J   Please provide a pointer to the copy of the FAQ you are looking at, and H   I will ask the FAQ maintainer :-) to request that the copy of the FAQ C   you are looking at either be updated or be removed from the 'net.   8 :Any other systems available....help files....tutorials?  I   The current OpenVMS FAQ is available at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/. J   You will find pointers to OpenVMS systems on the 'net, and to tutorials,'   and to current OpenVMS documentation.h    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:55:08 -0800 6 From: "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com>) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.I2 Message-ID: <a228h4$6vg$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  F Thanks to everyone that replied. Even that SA Brian Schenkenberger was helpful in his own special way.. :-ph  G >   Um, be up-front about your lack of knowledge of OpenVMS -- it wouldoG >   be far too easy for an experienced OpenVMS user to catch you in any E >   misrepresentations, and this usually means you won't get the job.e  @ Oh yeah, I fully intend to. I'm just trying to obtain some basicH understanding of what it's all about to show I have a bit of initiative.G It's an entry level help desk position. For what they're paying I don'tmI expect that they'll get many experienced VMS people applying. It's mostlyaH Windows/NT support. But then again, with the job market such as it is, I could be dead wrong.    L >   I can only assume you are looking at an ancient copy of the OpenVMS FAQ. >rK >   Please provide a pointer to the copy of the FAQ you are looking at, and I >   I will ask the FAQ maintainer :-) to request that the copy of the FAQtE >   you are looking at either be updated or be removed from the 'net.V >_K Oh...heh heh, I guess I should have looked at the Last Modified date at thet. top....Opps...Last-modified: November 10, 1994/ http://www.montagar.com/dfwlug/openvms-faq.htmlI  : > :Any other systems available....help files....tutorials? >eK >   The current OpenVMS FAQ is available at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/..L >   You will find pointers to OpenVMS systems on the 'net, and to tutorials,) >   and to current OpenVMS documentation.n >  > ( >  ---------------------------- #include' <rtfaq.h> ----------------------------- L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ----------------------------1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering2 hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:19:09 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.t/ Message-ID: <xV118.60$PZ4.332@news.cpqcorp.net>n  k In article <a228h4$6vg$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com> writes:tL :Oh...heh heh, I guess I should have looked at the Last Modified date at the/ :top....Opps...Last-modified: November 10, 1994d0 :http://www.montagar.com/dfwlug/openvms-faq.html  D   An email request has been sent to one of the DFWCUG folks, asking '   that this copy of the FAQ be updated.S    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 16:27:13 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.w3 Message-ID: <zU1TcUjU8Dlf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <Zg118.57$PZ4.456@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  L >   Please provide a pointer to the copy of the FAQ you are looking at, and J >   I will ask the FAQ maintainer :-) to request that the copy of the FAQ E >   you are looking at either be updated or be removed from the 'net.i  K And if you get into a loud hallway argument with the FAQ maintainer ?   :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:10:05 GMT.2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.S/ Message-ID: <hF218.65$PZ4.397@news.cpqcorp.net>   c In article <zU1TcUjU8Dlf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:re :In article <Zg118.57$PZ4.456@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:k : M :>   Please provide a pointer to the copy of the FAQ you are looking at, and 6K :>   I will ask the FAQ maintainer :-) to request that the copy of the FAQ pF :>   you are looking at either be updated or be removed from the 'net. :rL :And if you get into a loud hallway argument with the FAQ maintainer ?   :-)     Eh?w    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:15:19 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)b) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast. 0 Message-ID: <00A08181.6F9F0482@SendSpamHere.ORG>  d In article <q9118.54$PZ4.360@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:, >http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/ >e >last newsletter on the web. >t >sue    F ... and it's still not readable.  Please go back and format it the way& that the former issues were formatted.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             aJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesy   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:46:00 -0000t, From: "Dan Williams" <dan@danwilliams.co.uk> Subject: New vaxstation 3100/ Message-ID: <u498s2b44v3039@corp.supernews.com>   K I have just acquired a vaxstation 3100, I have but the boot messages below,FL can this machine be used as it is ie. Can I log in to it if I don't know the$ passwords, or do I have to reinstall   Thanks Dan Williams  	 BOOT DKB0t     -DKB0tE    VAX/VMS Version V5.4     Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0e  K $!  Copyright (c) 1990 Digital Equipment Corporation.  All rights reserved.d  , %MOUNT-F-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available  3 %SYSTEM-W-BOOTMIN, minimum system startup requestedlL -SYSTEM-W-NOSECAUD, security auditing disabled; use "SET AUDIT/SERVER=START" to start  9 %LICENSE-W-NOLOAD, license was not loaded for DESKTOP-VMSfB -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits@ %LICENSE-E-TERM, FORTRAN ATS-IL-89082-437 License has terminated8 %LICENSE-E-TERM, GKS-RT SQM003089 License has terminated? %LICENSE-E-TERM, GKS-RT ALL-IL-89236-580 License has terminatedi= %LICENSE-E-ALREADYLOADED, DEC VAX-VMS has already been loaded3= %LICENSE-E-ALREADYLOADED, DEC VAX-VMS has already been loadedi8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:58.16  %%%%%%%%%%%4 Operator _E1$OPA0: has been enabled, username SYSTEM  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:58.46  %%%%%%%%%%%& Operator status for operator _E1$OPA0:K CENTRAL, PRINTER, TAPES, DISKS, DEVICES, CARDS, NETWORK, CLUSTER, SECURITY,dG LICENSE, OPER1, OPER2, OPER3, OPER4, OPER5, OPER6, OPER7, OPER8, OPER9,i OPER10,r OPER11, OPER12  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:59.22  %%%%%%%%%%%2 Logfile has been initialized by operator _E1$OPA0:1 Logfile is E1::SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG;9c  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:59.23  %%%%%%%%%%%C Operator status for operator E1::SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG;9tK CENTRAL, PRINTER, TAPES, DISKS, DEVICES, CARDS, NETWORK, CLUSTER, SECURITY,iG LICENSE, OPER1, OPER2, OPER3, OPER4, OPER5, OPER6, OPER7, OPER8, OPER9,u OPER10,h OPER11, OPER12  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:06:00.55  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on E1C   %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC VAX-VMS use is not authorized on this node   B -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits  1 -LICENSE-I-SYSMGR, please see your system managern    A %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC VAX-VMS use is not authorized on this node B -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits1 -LICENSE-I-SYSMGR, please see your system manager.  Startup processing continuing...  I %SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit = 8, current interactive value = 0	   15-FEB-1996 20:06:028   SYSTEM       job terminated at 15-FEB-1996 20:06:03.15     Accounting information:sL   Buffered I/O count:             702         Peak working set size:     712L   Direct I/O count:               414         Peak page file size:      4843L   Page faults:                   2198         Mounted volumes:             0A   Charged CPU time:           0 00:00:20.86   Elapsed time:     0W 00:00:59.68e    	 Username:    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:04:59 -0500i* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: New vaxstation 3100- Message-ID: <0033000047962780000002L002*@MHS>r  @ =0AYou can't say new and VAXstation in the same sentence without alerting the oxymoron police.I  " What you want to do *is* possible.   RTFAQ.? Links to it and lots of other interesting things are located atS   http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  ; You might also want to look at the VAXstation 3100 Model 76- Owner's Guide located at (ahem)e  5 http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.htmlc  B Even if you don't have a Mod 76 lots of what's in there will apply to your box.   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETt' Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:49 PMbB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: New vaxstation 3100    H I have just acquired a vaxstation 3100, I have but the boot messages be= low,H can this machine be used as it is ie. Can I log in to it if I don't kno= w thet$ passwords, or do I have to reinstall   Thanks Dan Williams  	 BOOT DKB0a     -DKB0]H    VAX/VMS Version V5.4     Major version id =3D 1 Minor version id =3D=  0  H $!  Copyright (c) 1990 Digital Equipment Corporation.  All rights reser= ved.  , %MOUNT-F-NOSUCHDEV, no such device available  3 %SYSTEM-W-BOOTMIN, minimum system startup requestedeI -SYSTEM-W-NOSECAUD, security auditing disabled; use "SET AUDIT/SERVER=3D=  START" to start  9 %LICENSE-W-NOLOAD, license was not loaded for DESKTOP-VMS-B -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits@ %LICENSE-E-TERM, FORTRAN ATS-IL-89082-437 License has terminated8 %LICENSE-E-TERM, GKS-RT SQM003089 License has terminated? %LICENSE-E-TERM, GKS-RT ALL-IL-89236-580 License has terminated-= %LICENSE-E-ALREADYLOADED, DEC VAX-VMS has already been loadedr= %LICENSE-E-ALREADYLOADED, DEC VAX-VMS has already been loadedN8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:58.16  %%%%%%%%%%%4 Operator _E1$OPA0: has been enabled, username SYSTEM  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:58.46  %%%%%%%%%%%& Operator status for operator _E1$OPA0:H CENTRAL, PRINTER, TAPES, DISKS, DEVICES, CARDS, NETWORK, CLUSTER, SECUR= ITY,H LICENSE, OPER1, OPER2, OPER3, OPER4, OPER5, OPER6, OPER7, OPER8, OPER9,=   OPER10,s OPER11, OPER12  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:59.22  %%%%%%%%%%%2 Logfile has been initialized by operator _E1$OPA0:1 Logfile is E1::SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG;9=  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:05:59.23  %%%%%%%%%%%C Operator status for operator E1::SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG;9 H CENTRAL, PRINTER, TAPES, DISKS, DEVICES, CARDS, NETWORK, CLUSTER, SECUR= ITY,H LICENSE, OPER1, OPER2, OPER3, OPER4, OPER5, OPER6, OPER7, OPER8, OPER9,=   OPER10,  OPER11, OPER12  8 %%%%%%%%%%%  OPCOM  15-FEB-1996 20:06:00.55  %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on E1C   %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC VAX-VMS use is not authorized on this nodem  B -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits  1 -LICENSE-I-SYSMGR, please see your system manager-    A %LICENSE-E-NOAUTH, DEC VAX-VMS use is not authorized on this noderB -LICENSE-F-EXCEEDED, attempted usage exceeds active license limits1 -LICENSE-I-SYSMGR, please see your system manager0  Startup processing continuing...  H %SET-I-INTSET, login interactive limit =3D 8, current interactive value=  =3D 0   15-FEB-1996 20:06:028   SYSTEM       job terminated at 15-FEB-1996 20:06:03.15     Accounting information: H   Buffered I/O count:             702         Peak working set size:   =   712pH   Direct I/O count:               414         Peak page file size:     =  4843iH   Page faults:                   2198         Mounted volumes:         =     0tA   Charged CPU time:           0 00:00:20.86   Elapsed time:     08 00:00:59.68d    
 Username:=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:13:29 GMTv2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: New vaxstation 3100/ Message-ID: <dQ118.59$PZ4.472@news.cpqcorp.net>l  ^ In article <u498s2b44v3039@corp.supernews.com>, "Dan Williams" <dan@danwilliams.co.uk> writes:L :I have just acquired a vaxstation 3100, I have but the boot messages below,# :can this machine be used as it is e  E   The messages indicate you have bogus or old licenses.  The messages E   also indicate an ancient version of OpenVMS is installed.   Please -E   acquire and read the OpenVMS Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), and  C   particularly the section on the OpenVMS hobbyist program -- thereu>   are hobbyist licenses and a hobbyist distribution available.  P :ie. Can I log in to it if I don't know the passwords, or do I have to reinstall  D   The FAQ and the OpenVMS documentation both contain information on D   obtaining access to OpenVMS when privileged passwords are unknown.  D   It further appears that there are several VAX-VMS license PAKs andG   various expired license PAKs, and the first VAX-VMS PAK found is not  H   functioning.  If you have another VAX-VMS license that is functional, J   you could mark all others using LICENSE DISABLE VAX-VMS/AUTH=auth-stringJ   But getting a whole set of hobbyist PAKs and loading the contents of theF   hobbyist CD-ROM media kit would also easily resolve this whole mess.  B   The FAQ also has details on the system disk limit present on all(   members of the VAXstation 3100 series.  G   Yes, these particular questions -- and at least one or two others -- pF   have arisen on rare occasions in the past, and the resulting details$   have found their way into the FAQ.  7   The OpenVMS FAQ is available at the URL listed below.f  3   And hello and welcome to OpenVMS "hobbyism"!  :-)m  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:34:04 -0800" From: nas@ist-inc.com (Neil Smyth)6 Subject: O'Reilly X/Motif books available for download= Message-ID: <f6a5860e.0201151334.3374c604@posting.google.com><   Hi,j  A IST is pleased to announce that Volumes 6A and 6B of the O'ReillyoE Associates 'Definitive Guides to the X Window System' series of booksMB are now available for free, direct download in various formats and contents from IST's web site.f  + Volume 6A is the Motif Programming Manual. o) Volume 6B is the Motif Reference Manual. t  A The versions that can be downloaded from IST's web site are latert= versions than those made available by O'Reilly themselves. InyF particular, Volume 6A from IST is for Motif 2.1, whereas from O'Reilly it is for Motif 1.2.  E Antony Fountain and Jeremy Huxtable of IST have completely overhauled ? Volume 6A, Motif Programming Manual, for Motif 2.1. This onlinetE edition is the first publication of the Third Edition, dated December D 2001, and is the authoritative 'how-to' work on Motif 2.1. A printed1 edition will be available from IST in due course.l  C Volume 6B, Motif Reference Manual is also available in updated formwB online. This is the Second Edition of 6B, dated February 2000, for@ Motif 2.1, as revised and updated by Antony Fountain. The onlineD edition has been augmented with a number of patches and the sectionsD on UIL have been re-instated since the last paper publication of the> volume. Volume 6B is the standard reference work on Motif 2.1.  C The versions available from IST are available as both PDF files andaC source files for UNIX FrameMaker 5.5. Those available from O'Reilly-C are in troff format, and exactly match the last paper publications.w  A Information about the books and the links to download them can beu	 found at:.  1 http://www.ist.co.uk/NEWS/archive/motifbooks.html.   Thanks   Neil   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:33:39 GMTh# From: Jim <krait1@worldnet.att.net> & Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?/ Message-ID: <3C44E67E.2050402@worldnet.att.net>    Joshua Cope wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:  > R >>advanced text search: http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/sites/search/textadv >> >>"chocolate" yields 1,405,273* >>"chocolate and bicycle" yields 3,944,133 >> > F > In the "Advanced Text-Only Search", it appears the word AND must be , > uppercased to do what you'd expect. Weird. >   0 Says clearly under the "Boolean Query:" text box& "Use keywords AND, OR, AND NOT, NEAR".  " It's *always* required upper case.   Jimt   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:00:27 GMTt2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?/ Message-ID: <f%_08.49$PZ4.302@news.cpqcorp.net>-  d In article <w4o3d187jqe.fsf@eco-fs1.irtnog.org>, "Matthew X. Economou" <xenophon@irtnog.org> writes:@ :I'm running OpenVMS 7.2 on my AlphaStation through the HobbyistD :program (thank you, DECUS!).  In browsing through the documentation@ :site, I see that there are two new versions of OpenVMS, 7.3 andF :7.2-1.  Where do I find patches to update my system (e.g. security orA :other critical updates)?  Is either OpenVMS 7.2-1 or OpenVMS 7.3i :available to hobbyists?  G   OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1, V7.2-1H1, V7.2-2, V7.2-6C1 (DII COE), and V7.3 nH   are the releases that available after V7.2, with the V7.3-1, the IntelF   Itanium Process Family port, and other OpenVMS releases presently in   engineering development.  J   The OpenVMS FAQ has most of these in the list of upgrade paths.  I will G   be adding the V7.3-1 upgrade paths into the FAQ for the next edition.d  E   You will want to check with the folks running the hobbyist website aE   to determine if there are plans to offer newer OpenVMS kits on the )   hobbyist distribution media.  D   There are no OpenVMS upgrade (nor installation) kits available for)   public (nor anonymous) download access.,  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:49:39 GMTe2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?@ Message-ID: <7m218.9175$WM6.1625464@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>  & JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:P > Is there any process to suggest/poll for whcih products Hobbyist would like toN > see ? (for instance, I wouldn't mind seing the real All-in-1 (office server) > in there.a  5 This is the one thing I would most like to see added!g   		Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:25:14 GMT./ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood) 4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?9 Message-ID: <3c44d60d.212445919@news.directvinternet.com>t   David:  B I'm sure I speak for many of the people in this forum when I say aC very large THANK YOU for all the work you and your group do runningi
 this program.w   Steven  5 On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:54:05 -0600, "David L. Cathey"- <davidc@montagar.com> wrote:  K >>I've wondered who foots the initial bill for Montagar to be able to make cJ >>the hobbyist CD's available and to duplicate them for resale.  If it is J >>not Compaq, then it may simply be economics that the prior CD's need to D >>sell in order to help cover the seed money for producing the next  >>generation of CD's.m >xA >	Montagar foots the bill for the Hobbyist CD's, but that's not ad >problem...o >eE >>The another consideration is that Montagar may not have all of the nI >>latest CD's at their disposal to duplicate and if Compaq is not making iF >>those available to them at no-fee, then again it may be an economic  >>restraint.   >eE >	No, there are enough resources/media here, plus support from Compaq-$ >folks, so no problem here either... >-H >>Perhaps David, who I copied on this, could comment because if it is a H >>matter of having the CD's made available for duping, and there are no K >>legal issues lending them to David for mastering purposes, this might be   >>simple to resolve.   >  >	There are two main issues: > D >	1) Compaq sees the Hobbyist Kits as a good thing, however, this isN >copyrighted software (not like Linux), so Compaq calls the shots.  Therefore,J >we are only allowed to remaster the CD's every year or two.  We encourageG >Hobbyists to get/borrow media from any other source they can (short of:M >out-right theft, of course) if they want something more recent.  In general,.J >given that there are many commercial sites that are months, if not years,J >behind the latest upgrades anyway, this really shouldn't be a problem for >the Hobbyist either.  >-? >	2) We wanted to wait until the release of the next version ofeO >OpenVMS - V7.3.  If we're going to be cutting new CD's, we wanted to make sured# >we got the best bang for the buck.a >nF >	Now we are currently waiting on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 before we cut aO >new set (anticipated to be "REAL SOON NOW(tm)", so might as well wait).  We'lltJ >get the latest version of as many popular products on the CD's as we can, >just like last time.0 > F >>If it is the expenses related to burning the next set of CD's, what > >>about taking an informal tally of those hobbyist willing to K >>'pre-purchase' the latest CD's, provided that enough participate to make V> >>it economically feasible for both Montagar and the hobbyist? >oB >	I feel comfortable that this is not nessessary.  Thanks, though! > K >>A related question that the Encompass folks might be able to answer, for sK >>those 'fee-paying' folks like myself, what about making the CD images or  G >>savesets available for download on the 'pay-side of the site?'  This lG >>might help entice more folks to pay for annual membersiphs, it would vI >>assure that only current members are pulling this items, it would also mJ >>limit the burned bandwidth to paying folks, and still make the software E >>available without the upfront costs associated with burning CD's...A >OF >	There is more than just Encompass involved, as there are other DECUSH >related chapters, too!  I've been talking to John Wisniewski about thisJ >topic today, actually.  What we're looking at doing is the possibility ofL >enabling those that have bought a Hobbyist Kit to download kits of softwareJ >not included on the CD.  This keeps the bandwidth down, since the bulk ofK >the data is on the CD, and hopefully people would only pull the additional7I >kits they need when needed.  Note again that this would not be "current"9L >software versions, but still be limited to the date of the last "snapshot".M >Again, for copyright reasons, we want the right Compaq people to approve anyF. >software distribution plans for the Hobbyist. >oA >	Don't take this as a committment, though!  We still need to getRJ >Compaq approval, but I feel confident that some arrangement can be workedH >out.  We also want to make sure we cater to all the affiliated chapters@ >around the world that are part of the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program. >%C >	Of course, part of the issue is simply time - this is a volunteereI >effort, and sometimes we just don't move as fast as we'd otherwise like.c >sH >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -@ >David L. Cathey                      |Inet: davidc@montagar.com; >Montagar Software Concepts           |Fone: (972)-423-5224 > >P. O. Box 260772, Plano, TX 75026    |http://www.montagar.com   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAI StevenU@POBoxes.comc   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:44:30 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)- Subject: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof = Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201151344.455704ee@posting.google.com>s  ? Purveyor/TCPware can do the following ... Can any other VMS webg server?z   Engineered for OpenVMS :C Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS has been designed to take advantage ofr= the OpenVMS architecture. Not only is Purveyor the industry's0> highest-performance Web server for OpenVMS, but Purveyor fullyC supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system foraE incredible system throughput. Additionally, when coupled with Process9D Software's TCPware, the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,A Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingnD transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This means@ that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,B either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyD other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha system!h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:44:36 -0800 J From: "TradersUnite" <bounce-tradersunite-1631040T@lyris.tradersunite.com>+ Subject: Rapid Blast - PVNG Revenues Up 23%sk Message-ID: <LISTMANAGERSQL-1631040-6784-2002.01.15-17.50.01--info-vax#mvb.saic.com@lyris.tradersunite.com>N             _/_/ RAPID BLAST _/_/   : This publication is brought to you by Stockupticks.com and@ StockNight.com providing all the same great content you are used@ to, in a text format that allows us to reach you in just minutes? - thus maximizing your ability to read, digest, and react. This.A week's profile highlights Paving Stone Corporation (OTC BB: PVNG)i? a market leader in the interlocking concrete paver installationeB business. The company has announced a 23% increase in revenues for< to $31.5 million for its fiscal year just ended.  PVNG is an; exciting story that is yet undiscovered by the professional @ investment community.  This provides an important opportunity to* discover this company ahead of the market.  C -------------------------------------------------------------------   2 * * * Paving Stone Corporation (OTCBB: PVNG) * * *  C -------------------------------------------------------------------c   * * * * Breaking News * * * *A  ? PAVING STONE CORPORATION REPORTS 23% INCREASE IN 2001 FULL YEARA REVENUES TO $31.5 MILLIONl  = POMPANO BEACH, Fla., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Paving%= Stone Corporation (OTC Bulletin Board: PVNG), a market leaderM8 in the interlocking concrete paver installation business: nationwide, today announced that its revenues for the 20011 fiscal year had increased by 23% to $31.5 millionEA compared with revenues of $25.5 million for the 2000 fiscal year.7  = For the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2001, revenues wereM: $8.9 million compared with $7.3 million in the 2000 fourth8 quarter, an increase of 22%. The increased revenues were@ attributed to the continued growth of the Company's core officesA in Florida, Georgia and Arizona and the successful expansion intoY, California, Nevada, Texas and the Carolinas.  ; The Company said that it expects to release its 2001 fourth,; quarter and full year financial results in late March 2002.9  8 Maurice Sigouin, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of; Paving Stone Corporation, stated: "Paving Stone Corporation14 has established a leading nationwide position in the= interlocking paving stone installation industry. The increases? in our year-end and fourth quarter revenues reflect the ongoinge? implementation of our strategy to expand our national footprintz* while achieving operational efficiencies."  ; The Company plans to continue to expand its position in thee: marketplace through internal growth and the acquisition of9 quality independent businesses in strategic markets. As a = premier paver installation and design company in the country, ; Paving Stone Corporation believes it is poised to capture ai> dominant market share in this expanding marketplace. According? to the Interlocking Concrete Pavement Institute, the industry's ; trade association, while the annual installations of pavers:; has quadrupled in the U.S. over the last 20 years, the U.S. ; market of 300 million square feet of annual installation isi; still a fraction of the annual installation rate in Europe.-  5 Mr. Sigouin continued: "We built this business on them5 foundation of quality work and customer satisfaction.:6 Our company's growth is indicative of our thousands of4 satisfied customers since 1990. Yet we realize there6 are a vast number of potential customers that have yet5 to learn about the cost advantages and convenience of 9 interlocking paving stones for commercial and residentiali* landscape and infrastructure applications.  4 "We are already expanding our national footprint and8 bringing certain services in-house. By doing so, we have9 the ability to generate up to three times the revenues on,9 a per square foot basis (as in a residential installationp= in locations other than our Florida base). With this businessb9 model, we expect to be able to substantially increase the ; revenues per job, compared with jobs of similar size in our 8 Florida base. When one adds the components of geographic: expansion, increasing market share with large increases in; revenues on a per square foot basis, which result in highere= revenue per job, we have the potential for strong bottom line- growth."   About Paving Stone Corporation  D Paving Stone Corporation enjoys the position of market leader in theD interlocking concrete paver installation business nationwide and has= received numerous industry awards for design and installation  excellence.-  B Established a decade ago with two employees, the Company has grownB to include 80 employees and hundreds of installation crews locatedA in 16 offices nationwide. In addition to eight offices throughout ? Florida, Paving Stone Corporation operates in Alabama, Arizona,aA California, Georgia, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas, and the Carolinas.y@ Additional information is available on the Company's Web site at www.thepavingstone.com.n  = Safe Harbor Statement Under the Private Securities Litigation- Reform Act of 1995  : The information contained in this news release, other than< historical information, should be considered forward-looking: statements that are protected under the safe harbor of the= Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Projectionso8 and other forward-looking statements and descriptions of< management expectations regarding future events or financial8 performance, although made in good faith, are inherently: uncertain and actual events or results may differ markedly: from any forward-looking statements. Risk factors that may9 cause results to differ from projections include, withoute< limitation, loss of suppliers, loss of customers, inadequate7 capital, competition, loss of key executives, declinings; prices, margin pressures, lack of adequate capital, lack ofM8 adequate labor, unforeseen marketing expenses, and other3 capital market, international and economic factors.    SOURCE Paving Stone Corporatione  & CONTACT: stockquest@marketpathways.com  ' Web site: http://www.thepavingstone.com.  C -------------------------------------------------------------------e* * * * About Paving Stone Corporation * * *  A Paving Stone designs and installs driveways, walkways, industrialtE and commercial streets in addition to building permanent interlocking A retaining walls can add beauty, value as well as functionality totA any landscape. From raised flower beds to building foundations to,7 terraced lawns, Paving Stone can strengthen structures.w  A -----------------------------------------------------------------     * * * About the Industry * * *y  @ The paving stone market began in the U.S. approximately 30 years< ago and now constitutes 300 million square feet covered this> year. The European market covers over 3 billion feet annually.= The look and longevity of paving stone make it a rapid growthe? sector of the building industry. The nearest competition in theU? U.S. for orders is approximately half the size of Paving Stone.f@ Industry profit margins are approximately 50 percent nationally.  B ------------------------------------------------------------------ DISCLOSURE / DISCLAIMERN  C All statements and expressions are the sole opinions of Rapid Blast-B and are subject to change without notice. This is neither an offerD or a solicitation to buy or sell any securities mentioned. We do notB represent or gaurantee the accuracy of any statements made herein.= The owners of Rapid Blast will be paid $22,500 to prepare andaD disseminate this report and provide additional advertising services.B This report may contain forward looking statements relating to theC expected capabilities of the company mentioned herein. Investing incD the securities mentioned is speculative and carries a high degree ofB risk. Potential investors should do their own due diligence before
 investing.       ---pF You are currently subscribed to tradersunite as: info-vax@mvb.saic.comW To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-tradersunite-1631040T@lyris.tradersunite.comh   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:32:50 GMTq* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: segmented key vs duplicated datahB Message-ID: <6L418.521598$C8.36791017@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C446696.31323A2A@videotron.ca...   ...s  K > from a space point of view, would a segmented key take up much more indexd* > space compared to a non segmented key  ?   Takes up no more space at all.   >rJ > from a performance point of view, would a segmented key slow things down > significantly ?7  J No, not even if all accesses were cached (i.e., no disk-access latencies).  K Both answers don't take into account Prologue 3 enhancements (which I don'tVE remember well enough and haven't the time to dig out documentation toA> relearn), but those aren't likely to have changed the answers.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 18:46 PSTo+ From: rankin@eql14.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin)h- Subject: Re: segmented key vs duplicated datar1 Message-ID: <15JAN200218463395@eql14.caltech.edu>b  - In article <3C446696.31323A2A@videotron.ca>,\S*  JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes.... > OK, for my project to build 267,740 records. >-- > I have latitude which is 9 characters long -B >       and will range in values between "-11.xxxxx" and "-42.xxx" >VB > and longitude which will range between "110.xxxx" and "155.xxxx" > E > As was suggested I will create a "grid" which will essentially be a < > combination of the whole units for latitude and longitude.  ?      I used to work with stuff like this quite a bit (primarilym= the US Census Bureau's "TIGER/Line" database), and what I didt> was store the longitude and latitude values as 32 bit integersA holding millionths of degrees (so your values would -11 * 1000000o> + xxxxx and 110 * 1000000 + xxxx).  Then to sort and partition? the data, I just used SORT with the most significant 16 bits of = the coordinates as two primary keys and the least significanth< 16 bits as two secondary keys.  That worked quite well for a@ dataset which spanned the State of California.  I don't know how@ effective it would be for a larger area; the number of "sectors" generated would be greater.H  @      I kept the data in flat files, with a separate indexed file? that reported the first and last record number for each sector.tC Of course some records crossed sector lines, so the sectors weren't B totally independent of each other.  Despite that, the partitioningB made it possible to ignore huge subsets of the data when searchingA for records at particular coordinates.  Even though it ultimatelyb@ examined the data records sequentially, it was quite fast on the< VAXstation 3100 model 76 machines we were using at the time.  2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:15:30 -0600mC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> & Subject: TCP/IP Services echo service?= Message-ID: <3C44FE62.7070809@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>C  D I am attempting to assist in the support of a cross-platform package> (Perl's Net::Ping extension) that assumes every working TCP/IPD implementation has an echo service (name='echo', port=7). All of theG TCP/IP stacks I have access to do have such a service (including Win2K,pH Mac OS X, Linux, and Multinet on OVMS) except Compaq TCP/IP Services forF OpenVMS, which does not have such a service. It does not appear in theH configuration menus in TCPIP$CONFIG.COM, there are no startup proceduresC for this service in SYS$STARTUP, and of the 10 separate manuals foraF TCP/IP Services, the 9 of them that have indexes nowhere list the word "echo" in the index.  J The service appears to be entirely absent from the configuration database:   TCPIP> show service/port=7( %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found -RMS-E-RNF, record not found TCPIP> show service echo( %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found -RMS-E-RNF, record not found    F I thought to check whether the master server (or something else) mightH be listening on port 7 and wasn't registered as a named service. It just7 ain't there in any way, shape, or form that I can find.t  H It looks like I can tell the Net::Ping maintainers one of the following:  E 1.) Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS is missing an echo service anduE will never be fixed; your package will never run on VMS so we'll just  disable it.w  D 2.) Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS is currrently missing an echoE service but is scheduled to be fixed in release x.y-z. [please supplys values of x, y, and z]  E 3.) There is a very good reason that the echo service is missing fromCE VMS's vendor-supplied IP stack, namely [specify reason here]. InsteadtE you should use the XYZ service on port NNN, which is guaranteed to betA pingable on any minimally configured TCP/IP implementation on anyy3 platform. [and what are the values of XYZ and NNN?]s    F P.S.  This isn't relevant since I'm already using the latest release,  but someone will ask, so   TCPIP> show version'  @    Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 33    on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3'  E P.P.S. It might be an interesting little project to figure out how totH add a custom service to the TCP/IP Services database and have it run oneC of the many echo programs floating around on the net. However, thisaG would not help me at all since what I need is a service that is presentu. by default on any minimally configured system.   TIA    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:04:36 +1100i From: "Dale King" <a@a.com>h* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Services echo service?4 Message-ID: <a231lp$3mp$1@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>  	 Hi Craig,t   My guess is 3.)d  J The echo service opens the host up to a denial or service attack, as thereK is some processing required on the host to echo the data, and also it couldl be abused as a relay.   E I can't see that any service will be guaranteed to be pingable on any9L implementation.  The telnet port 23 is probably a good one to use for Compaq) TCPIP, seeing as we don't have SSH yet ;)e   Regards, Dale  F "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote in? message news:3C44FE62.7070809@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com... G > 3.) There is a very good reason that the echo service is missing fromdG > VMS's vendor-supplied IP stack, namely [specify reason here]. InsteadsG > you should use the XYZ service on port NNN, which is guaranteed to be	C > pingable on any minimally configured TCP/IP implementation on anye5 > platform. [and what are the values of XYZ and NNN?]    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:16:34 -0600-C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>d* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Services echo service?= Message-ID: <3C451AC2.1010101@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>7  F Thanks, Dale. I had wondered about D-O-S but forgot to follow up on itE until your post reminded me. Looks like CERT has recommended for some53 years now that the echo service always be disabled:B  . http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-1996-01.html  G Hmm. I wonder why nearly everyone still enables it by default. Not sure G what we'll do; we may need to iterate over a list of some of the commonrC ports until we hit something. In any case, at least I now have some . rationale for the absence of the echo service.   Dale King wrote:   > Hi Craig,i >  > My guess is 3.)f > L > The echo service opens the host up to a denial or service attack, as thereM > is some processing required on the host to echo the data, and also it couldl > be abused as a relay.c > G > I can't see that any service will be guaranteed to be pingable on anyuN > implementation.  The telnet port 23 is probably a good one to use for Compaq+ > TCPIP, seeing as we don't have SSH yet ;)h > 
 > Regards, > Dale > H > "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote inA > message news:3C44FE62.7070809@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com...e > G >>3.) There is a very good reason that the echo service is missing from-G >>VMS's vendor-supplied IP stack, namely [specify reason here]. Instead<G >>you should use the XYZ service on port NNN, which is guaranteed to betC >>pingable on any minimally configured TCP/IP implementation on any05 >>platform. [and what are the values of XYZ and NNN?]i >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:13:35 +0100y From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>8 Subject: Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions& Message-ID: <3C44A98F.1020202@home.nl>   Oswald Knoppers wrote:   >JF Mezei wrote: >oP >>Is there something that cannot be done in TCPIP> that can be done in SYSCONFIGB >>? If so, it is a flaw. I want a single utility to set things up. >> >eA >Well you can enter sysconfig commands from the TCPIP> prompt. Sor8 >strictly speaking you can do all from the TCPIP prompt. >s) >But these are not native TCPIP commands.s >t
 >Check out >y >TCPIP> sysconfig -q inete >cC >And you'll see lots of parameters you cannot set with native tcpipo
 >commands. >tG And that is what I was refering to with "VMS quality" The stack itself -C is ok, and maybe if we take all 'unix' style commands as such, the -H command set is ok to. But the hodgepodge of VMS and Unix style settings  together is not ok.   H I would opt for a NCL style of commands, for a couple of reasons. After F working for weeks with NCL and X.25 on VMS, Unix and DECnis routers,I I very much appreciate the very methodical architecture of NCL. It follows aE the 7-layer OSI model, and when you are looking for errors this is a iG blessing. You can check layer for layer what is going on. Counters and aE settings can be seen from one command.  And all settings are done in oA ASCII files, what enables the possibility to add comments to the 1 settings (why is it done etc.).iH Yes, I know it is more difficult than NCP. But once you have a feel for F the logic, it all becomes very clear.  When I changed from RSX to VMS G DCL, I wasn't happy either in the beginning. But after a while ....... sI (But I still think the RSX documentation is unsurpassed. It went so deep o: that you could almost read what chip was doing what :-)  )  ? I can imagine something like IPNCL, with the same setup as NCL. - First the interfaces (can be shared with NCL)f On top of that PPP, HDLC etc.t Then the IP layer. Then UDP, TCP and ICMP/ On top of those the services, applications etc.c  H If both DECnet-plus and IP would have a similar CLI interface, it would 0 make thing a lot easier to learn and understand.   >a >n	 >Regards,a >y >Oswaldd >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:01:20 GMTo4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>8 Subject: Re: TCPIP  configuration problems and questions= Message-ID: <Ah418.2646$gf1.17546@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   I > If both DECnet-plus and IP would have a similar CLI interface, it wouldC2 > make thing a lot easier to learn and understand.  C Having been inducted into the land of OSI, specifically via X.25, IrG understand your perspective.  I lament the fact that the nice OSI layerwH model was not pervasive across other networking products.  The weight ofF history is not helping to improve this situation, and we are certainlyC trying to bring order to a complex and diverse set of protocols andiI services.  Even with the advent of IPv6, when there was an opportunity toaE improve upon this, the IETF working groups had vehement sentiments toiK structured management of protocol stacks.  OSI is an expletive in the IETF.i   Matt.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:52:53 GMTe4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>4 Subject: Re: TCPIP io status blocks on 64 bit alphas= Message-ID: <Vw118.2293$gf1.15762@news-server.bigpond.net.au>u  % I can only guess... it's history now.n   --= -------------------------------------------------------------t OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporationt Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAr  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:nVeE+S6iC$S9@eisner.encompasserve.org...eC > In article <9xP08.640$gf1.3617@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "Matte0 Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> writes:J > > The buffer_address field is not used in any of the TCP/IP services, so itsf/ > > field size is not particularly interesting.o >w2 > So why did TCPIP or UCX name it buffer_address ? > 8 > The underlying QIO service does not give it that name.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 04:01:53 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>d, Subject: Re: tuning to fix slow file delete?' Message-ID: <3C44FC19.53B4E67F@fsi.net>e   Boyd Blackwell wrote:e >  > I have found that & > backup/delete <files> <other-device>- > is often painfully slow in the delete phasenP > e.g. for 30 files, the backup copy to 9 seconds, and the delete phase took 180
 > seconds.* > i.e. 20 times longer than the copy phase > 	 > I tried  >   backup/fastr >   set volume/nohighwater >   set volume/noeraseondelete > with no effect.. > 3 > None of the files were being used by anyone else.r > R > I may try dismounting the drive, but there were 400 files opne on the device, so > that will have to wait until > a reboot.n > R > I am using an Aplha 500/400, the drive is clustered to two other nodes, and that > directoyrrN > contains 23,000 files (which is why I am moving them elsewhere with backup). >  > Any suggestions? > [snip]  E Yes, moving files out of that 1725 block directory (23,000+ files, asr* you mentioned) *IS* the right thing to do.  G That is, in fact, the "tuning" you are looking for. You'll find that asyE you delete the files, the "EOF" size ("in use" size) of the directoryfB will go down, while the allocation remains unchanged. Deletes willG slowly get faster as the number of files in the directory declines. ThetA filesystem (ODS) will "compress" the directory as you delete. ThelC "level" of compression will be dependent upon whether you have many B versions of the same filename.ext or if the filename.ext's are all; different and you have one (or very few) versions of each. m  3 In a nutshell, the format of a directory record is:-  H Two bytes indicating the version limit for the file (no limit = %X7FFF =	 %D32767).C4 Two bytes indicating the length of the filename.ext. The filename.ext as ASCII text. ! Two bytes for the version number.t? Six bytes for the FID associated with that version of the file.y  D Those last two fields (8 bytes total) repeat for each version of theG file that exists up to the maximum length of a directory entry (record)tD which is 512 bytes (one block - directory records may not span blockG boundaries). For more versions, additional directory entries are neededm1 up to the maximum of 32767 versions for any file.   G As another poster mentioned, you want to keep your directory sizes downnE below about 127 blocks on the older versions of VMS. Above that size, G the directory can no longer be cached and record-level I/O must be doneeD with less buffering, potentially resulting in a large amount of diskG activity for each delete. Also as mentioned, DFU can do a better job ofrE "compressing" a directory which has seen much create/delete activity,-, given certain combinations of circumstances.  E In a 127 block directory, you could have 127 files if they're all onerE version ("filename.ext;1"), regardless of the number of characters inc" either the name or the extension.   G In that same directory, if the filename and the extension of every filetG are both 39 characters each, you could still have as many as 6731 files F in that directory (127 entries times fifty-three(53) versions max. forG each "filename.ext", more versions of each file depending on the numberx$ of characters in the filename.ext).   : Nutshell, eh? Sorry, it's a long explanation. Try browsingE (EDIT/EDT/READ) or DUMPing (DUMP/RECORD=(COUNT=x)) a directory to getd$ some idea of what this is all about.  H All-in-1 SysAdmins may want to consider this, given the way message fileH name.ext's are constructed (many files, uniquely named, all ";1", unlessG this has changed since V3.x which was the last version of All-in-1 that F I saw). When determining whether to open a new shared directory range,D check that no directory in the currently active range exceeds an EOFG size of 127 on older VMS. This will help ensure that all directories iniG the currently "open" range are cacheable. Restrictions on newer VMS are.7 less severe. (Wish I'd known that back in '91 to '95!).    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 03:50:28 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publico' Message-ID: <3C44F972.327A01F7@fsi.net>e   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t >  > Hm.d0 > I thought I'd look for more info on "Gumball".1 > I tried www.gumball.com. Highly recommended :-)  > 6 > Anyway, If someone would like to see Compaq-stickers9 > on Gumball cars, check this pictures. They are from theR6 > Gunball-3000 race (round the Batic sea) during 2001.6 > I selected some pictures where the Compaq sticker is > clearly seen.... > Have fun ! > D > http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010430-160435.jpgD > http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010426-151643.jpgD > http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010429-110127.jpgD > http://www.kimble.org/pictures/1000x656/kimorg-20010501-185228.jpg > % > The compleat picture galery is at :c$ > http://www.kimble.org/gumball3000/ > ' > Well, not compleatly of-subject, or ?d  H Well, what I was think was: search Yahoo! for "Gumball Rally" and you'll/ find a link to the movie on tape at Amazon.com.a   -- t David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/x   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Jan 2002 21:12:08 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)o Subject: Re: VMSBackup to unix+ Message-ID: <a225v9$lbf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>s  3 In article <yWRAVNR5VwAP@eisner.encompasserve.org>,aJ  simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:X |> In article <3C3F057F.7000206@mmaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> writes: |> > hN |> > and lastly, if you still want to do it 'on-the-cheap' you can attempt to M |> > use VMSBACKUP from: http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/vms/backup.html which e* |> > is an incomplete clone but is free... |> > e |> tI |> Assuming that he can get Unix to read an ANSI tape and get the savesettK |> onto disk, then I have had success with READVMSBACKUP (on the sig tapes)o |> in the past.b |> mL |> BTW, just how does Unix handle ANSI tapes ? This is one area of Unix that% |> I haven't had any exposure to yet.t |>  C What's to handle??  ANSI labels are just small files.  If you don't-D care about the data they contain, just skip them.  I frequently readE ANSI tapes from RSTS machines on Unix.  (well, not lately, but in theP past.)   bill   -- cJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   a   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 16:24:10 -08000 From: chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk (Chris Doran)2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being= Message-ID: <948f0720.0201151624.2c2f9b6a@posting.google.com>t   Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in message news:<Pine.NXT.4.50.0201132149550.8412-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>...3 > In the beginning, there were small computers, ...a  D Before time began there was main frame. Many such great beasts livedB in great caverns called "computer rooms" where they breathed greatB heat drawn thence by aircon ditioners. When I was a mere striplingF beginning in my travels through life I encountered such a beast calledF KDF9. It lived on spaghetti called paper tape which was conditioned by@ many of us slaves using Flexo Writers. It spoke a great languageD called Al Gol which had unto it blocks and both upper and lower caseE and tabs as well. Behold after much repunching to eliminate many tinyk1 insects it could print wonders in both cases too.o  E Time passed and the KDF9 became extinct and was replaced by a greatervA beast called 1906A. This evolutionary backstep used punched cardsoA which had upper case only and no tabs and printed its output thusSE also. The high priests were permitted to speak to the great beast via D Tele Types, and the Great High Priest had a VDU, but these too spokeA only upper case. So many a PhD thesis had to be produced in othereD ways. Moreover, the great beast-tamer spoke thus: "Al Gol doth causeE the mighty 1906A much travail in translation. Therefore we will teachbE the twin tribes of Scien Tists and Engi Neers to speak For Tran which E is a greatly better language spoken the world over, and everyone elsenF shall speak Co Bol which is better still. But you will still only have upper case".  F More time passed, and behold there appeared little beasts conceived byF great gods with names to inspire awe such as DEC (which in latter days@ did adopt the bar-full name of d|i|g|i|t|a|l and was consumed byC Compaq causing much sorrow and an upturn in the sackcloth and ashes F industry), Data General (son of DEC), Hewlett-Packard, and Prime. TheyE too used Tele Types and spoke only upper case, but did have tabs. But C then rumours spread abroad of wonderful machines called DEC Writers-A which had lower case letters (albeit without descenders). And yea E there was much delight in the eyes of graduate students who could uses@ computers to produce their theses once again, and much eyestrainB amongst external examiners who really would have liked descenders,F until the great Son of Ep gave us these too, and even colour graphics, albeit spottily.  F And the Tower of Babel was rebuilt and there came forth many different= operating systems and languages with great prophets who said:lE "Herewith art a new way of life. All thou hast used before is rubbishwA and thou must change thy ways. Repent and spend years redoing thyiD life's work according unto my ways and thou shalt forever be able toE produce more efficiently." Which the gullible fell for every time anddC spent so much effort changing that they never did anything originale ever again.a  C Yet more time passed, and behold there came VDUs and laser printersoE which not only had descenders but even more letters with strange hatsfE and beslashed. And external examiners suffered less eyestrain, exceptu7 when graduate students used too many fonts on one page.   E In the end times, there came Bill Gates who declared himself the OnlyrC True Prophet, added even more strange squiggles, and decreed: "Thou B shalt use graphical user interfaces and mayst have colour" (thoughB being from lands afar he bespake it "color"). "And thou canst have? many pictures embedded in thy theses". And behold many graduatemE students waxed delerious with glee until they discovered that each of E the mighty Bill Gates' software packages had different ideas of whereeE tab stops should be, aND THAT THE cAPS lOCK KEY WAS EASILY PRESSED BY D ACCIDENT*, and that the control key was where shift used to be, thus% causing many strange runes to appear.    ChrissD (*Believe it or not, I really did accidentally hit the caps lock key while typing that phrase!)   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:40:01 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: Why Purveyor  is the best webserver for VMS!i= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201151340.1c1e5e60@posting.google.com>s  3 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation OverviewlP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------6 Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS allows you to: > Web-enable existing OpenVMS applications with a graphical user	 interfacer  D With Purveyor Encrypt you can add a Web interface onto your existing> applications and eliminate the cumbersome character-cell-based
 interface.   # Easily establish a secure Intranet a  D The ideal foundation of a corporate Intranet, Purveyor can be set upE quickly and easily over your existing OpenVMS network. With a minimumf= investment in time and resources, departments can quickly and > inexpensively publish information throughout the organization.   ) Develop a robust World Wide Web presence r  E Purveyor Encrypt WebServer lets you take full advantage of the globala? marketing power offered by the Internet and the World Wide Web.o  @ Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS combines the reliability,C security and scalability of the OpenVMS platform with the graphicala= ease-of-use and functionality of World Wide Web technologies. P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------3 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation FeaturesaP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 Award-winning Web server performance and features:   h+ Support of all industry standard browsers  hD Extensive, easy-to-configure security, including SSL encryption, Key@ Management facilities, basic authentication, and access controls$ Database access from a Web browser   Engineered for OpenVMS g Search and Index Engine   # Flexible and Robust User Security  d Authentication Key Management    Supports Multiple Web Sites  d Virtual Servers  a Remote server management  * HTTP, FTP and Gopher proxy server support  Purveyor allows you to:   ) Web-Enable Existing OpenVMS Applications n  F With Purveyor Encrypt and a minimal amount of programming, you can addA a Web interface onto your existing applications and eliminate thenE cumbersome character-cell-based interface. You'll also get all of the B power of the Web, like hypertext links, Internet access, graphics, multimedia and more.   0 Improve Corporate Productivity with an Intranet   = Purveyor Encrypt WebServer will let you improve your internal,D communications and productivity. The ideal foundation of a corporateF Intranet, Purveyor can be set up quickly and easily over your existingA OpenVMS network. With a minimum investment in time and resources, = departments can quickly and inexpensively publish information D throughout the organization. Information such as product literature,F policies and procedures, price lists and virtually any other corporate@ information can be created, maintained and updated easily on theC Intranet. From a universal desktop browser, Intranet users can alsol5 access existing corporate databases and applications.d   # Develop an External Web Presence.     E Purveyor Encrypt WebServer lets you take full advantage of the globalrF marketing power offered by the Internet and the World Wide Web. Or you> can use it to exchange confidential information between remote0 corporate locations around the world in minutes.P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Case StudyaP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Case Study - WCF & Associates   ? Uses Purveyor and the Web to Enable OpenVMS Print Applications h  @ Increase productivity and decrease report waste "Web-enabling anF OpenVMS application has proven to be successful for our clients." Bill Farmer, President, WCF  E Running under Purveyor WebServer, WebPrinter provides an easy to use, A graphical front end to viewing, searching and printing reports ono OpenVMS systems.  E WCF & Associates, a Process Software reseller in Big Bend, Wisconsin, D bundles the Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS with WEBPrinter software,F an easy to use and cost saving tool for accessing and printing reportsE stored on OpenVMS systems. WCF's use of Purveyor is a perfect example F of how Web-enabled OpenVMS applications can increase an organizations'' productivity and decrease costly waste.M  F WebPrinter saves time and money by providing a Web-based front end for< viewing and accessing reports. In conjunction with Purveyor,A WebPrinter displays reports via any web browser using a company'seD Internet or intranet. WEBPrinter generates reports in HTML, allowingF users to browse documents and print only the pages needed vs. printingC out an entire, and often lengthy report. By viewing the report as a > Web-based HTML page, users are also able to search reports. ByF providing text search capabilities within reports, the ineffective and> timely process of paging through paper documents searching forE specific data is eliminated. The products graphical front end furthereE simplifies the process of viewing reports, including familiar browsers/ commands like GOTO, NEXT, PREVIOUS, and SUBMIT.k  B WCF's WebPrinter runs under Process Software's Purveyor WebServer.D "Purveyor's proven reliability and quality technical support made itE the natural choice for bundling with WEBPrinter," stated Bill Farmer, D President WCF. WebPrinter and Purveyor runs on TCPware, MultiNet and$ any other TCP/IP for OpenVMS stacks.P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------< Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Technical DetailsP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------B Explore the Power of the Most Feature-Rich WebServer for OpenVMS:  SSL Encryption Support h  B Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS is the first commercial WebC server for OpenVMS to support Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) encryption C services. Part of the feature-rich award-winning Purveyor WebServer A family, Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS runs over the leading TCP/IPiE stack for OpenVMS, TCPware from Process Software, or any other TCP/IPe> for OpenVMS implementation. Now you can easily Web-enable yourF existing OpenVMS applications, develop an internal corporate Intranet,B or create a robust external Web presence - all within a secure Web environment.  A Using SSL encryption and authentication support, Purveyor Encryptm= ensures the security of access, traffic, and requests made tosC Web-enabled OpenVMS systems, which typically house mission-critical F data. With Purveyor, your corporate information is secure. Here's why:  > Private: all messages between client and server are encrypted A Authenticated: server and sender are authenticated through Public  Key/Private Key CertificatesA Reliable: message integrity is ensured during transit by means ofe message authentication code = Purveyor WebServer will also run without encryption services,t9 eliminating unnecessary network overhead if not required. P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engineered for OpenVMS iC Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS has been designed to take advantage ofd= the OpenVMS architecture. Not only is Purveyor the industry's7> highest-performance Web server for OpenVMS, but Purveyor fullyC supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system for E incredible system throughput. Additionally, when coupled with ProcesseD Software's TCPware, the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,A Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingeD transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This means@ that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,B either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyD other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha system! P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search and Index Engine  nE The capability to index, search and retrieve documents from a browsersB is provided with Process Software's WebSearch and WebIndex engine.F Search forms can be completely customized, and the querying capabilityB supports a variety of logical, proximity and wildcard operators toD optimize results. You select the criteria for how the search resultsF will be displayed. The matches will be displayed as HTML links, ranked according to relevance.iP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------# Flexible and Robust User Security  aB Purveyor Encrypt offers organizations a highly flexible and secure? environment for managing access to all documents on the server,t? whether it be for an Intranet or Internet application. PurveyortA supports public key encryption and delivers server authentication E using signed digital certificates. A digital certificate verifies theu9 connection between a server's public key and the server'sMF identification. Digital signatures ensure the integrity of information within a certificate.b  D In addition to encryption, Purveyor offers additional administrativeA and management tools, such as access controls and proxy services.-  C Access Control - Secure your documents or server to only authorizedhE visitors. Management is easily accomplished through the Remote ServerrC Manager, simply by point and click. ACLs do not need to be created.rB The server provides functionality to restrict access to individualE Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) pages based on IP address, username,yC or both. This allows servers to be customized for access by groups,e> such as company employees or external users accessing specific; information that may be restricted to authorized customers.e  F Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS supports multiple authorization databasesE for access control. In addition to Purveyor's built-in access controlkB database which provides for Web access control without the need toB create OpenVMS accounts for each Web user, Purveyor has integratedE support for the use of the OpenVMS SYSUAF.DAT file for authorization.oE Through the use of Purveyor's External Authentication Feature you can F substitute any external database, even integrate a relational database like Oracle, or RDB.  D Proxy Services - proxy server support is provided for HTTP, FTP, and@ GOPHER protocols, providing LAN security by restricting Internet> activities of LAN users. The proxy server also offers improvedD performance feature by caching HTML pages to provide faster responseD to clients on the LAN. Purveyor also provides proxy-to-proxy support: for corporations with multiple proxy servers or firewalls.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Authentication  F Purveyor Encrypt provides full access control to files and directoriesF on the server. The secure server queries and verifies the integrity ofD digitally signed documents as it receives them. Authentication takesB place by using agreed upon keys to generate and verify the messageA digest, which consists of summary information that is transmitted. along with the message.mP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Key Management uC Purveyor Encrypt allows management of multiple keys, stored locally 8 and accessible through a user-specified password. SystemD administrators can create private keys specifying a password, create? certificates which may contain the public key and the encrypted E private key, and sign certificates specifying the private key to use.NP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Application Interfaces oF ISAPI - Process Software has co-developed, with Microsoft Corporation,> a new Internet Server Application Programming Interface, which; provides a faster, higher performance interface to back endnF applications from the Web server. Based on its own DLL, ISAPI providesC a significant performance advantage over conventional CGI. ISAPI is @ supported by a number of Web server vendors allowing application@ developers to write for a single specification and to deliver onD multiple platforms. Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS also supports the Common Gateway Interface (CGI).-P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supports Multiple Web Sites  aB Purveyor supports many logical Web sites on one server system (128@ with the TCPware TCP/IP for OpenVMS stack). It supports multiple@ "virtual servers," where a single Web server process responds toB multiple TCP/IP addresses and host names. It can also run multipleC copies of the Web server, with independent configuration databases, ' allowing totally independent operation.gP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Customised Logging tC Purveyor Encrypt provides full transaction logging, including time,nE date, HTML page, and the IP address of the requester, plus capture of < "referred URLs". Users select information to log and report.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Server Management > Manage administrative features of the Web server from a remoteC location on any browser. User authentication ensures secure access.oP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Templates and Sample Home Pages E Sample HTML Web pages and Forms help you get started using the serveri and its capabilities.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:15:55 +0300 4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru>9 Subject: Re: Why Purveyor  is the best webserver for VMS!l/ Message-ID: <3C451A9B.517BE16@smtp.deltatel.ru>o   Bob,F 	PSC stoped devepomnent the Purveyor server 1 yaer ago. More over it's" not a best WEB server for OpenVMS.     Bob Ceculski wrote:  > 5 > Purveyor From Process Software Corporation OvervieweR > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------7 > Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS allows you to: @ > Web-enable existing OpenVMS applications with a graphical user > interfaceh > F > With Purveyor Encrypt you can add a Web interface onto your existing@ > applications and eliminate the cumbersome character-cell-based > interface. > $ > Easily establish a secure Intranet > F > The ideal foundation of a corporate Intranet, Purveyor can be set upG > quickly and easily over your existing OpenVMS network. With a minimum ? > investment in time and resources, departments can quickly and @ > inexpensively publish information throughout the organization. > * > Develop a robust World Wide Web presence > G > Purveyor Encrypt WebServer lets you take full advantage of the globallA > marketing power offered by the Internet and the World Wide Web.R > B > Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS combines the reliability,E > security and scalability of the OpenVMS platform with the graphicalg? > ease-of-use and functionality of World Wide Web technologies.hR > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 > Purveyor From Process Software Corporation FeatureshR > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------4 > Award-winning Web server performance and features:+ > Support of all industry standard browsers F > Extensive, easy-to-configure security, including SSL encryption, KeyB > Management facilities, basic authentication, and access controls$ > Database access from a Web browser > Engineered for OpenVMS > Search and Index Enginea# > Flexible and Robust User Security  > Authentication Key Managementd > Supports Multiple Web Sitesy > Virtual Serverss > Remote server management+ > HTTP, FTP and Gopher proxy server supporty > Purveyor allows you to:g > * > Web-Enable Existing OpenVMS Applications > H > With Purveyor Encrypt and a minimal amount of programming, you can addC > a Web interface onto your existing applications and eliminate theeG > cumbersome character-cell-based interface. You'll also get all of thelD > power of the Web, like hypertext links, Internet access, graphics, > multimedia and more. > 1 > Improve Corporate Productivity with an Intranet  > ? > Purveyor Encrypt WebServer will let you improve your internaliF > communications and productivity. The ideal foundation of a corporateH > Intranet, Purveyor can be set up quickly and easily over your existingC > OpenVMS network. With a minimum investment in time and resources,c? > departments can quickly and inexpensively publish informationpF > throughout the organization. Information such as product literature,H > policies and procedures, price lists and virtually any other corporateB > information can be created, maintained and updated easily on theE > Intranet. From a universal desktop browser, Intranet users can alsor7 > access existing corporate databases and applications.r > # > Develop an External Web Presence.f > G > Purveyor Encrypt WebServer lets you take full advantage of the globallH > marketing power offered by the Internet and the World Wide Web. Or you@ > can use it to exchange confidential information between remote2 > corporate locations around the world in minutes.R > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------7 > Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Case StudyoR > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Case Study - WCF & Associates-@ > Uses Purveyor and the Web to Enable OpenVMS Print Applications > B > Increase productivity and decrease report waste "Web-enabling anH > OpenVMS application has proven to be successful for our clients." Bill > Farmer, President, WCF > G > Running under Purveyor WebServer, WebPrinter provides an easy to use,sC > graphical front end to viewing, searching and printing reports one > OpenVMS systems. > G > WCF & Associates, a Process Software reseller in Big Bend, Wisconsin, F > bundles the Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS with WEBPrinter software,H > an easy to use and cost saving tool for accessing and printing reportsG > stored on OpenVMS systems. WCF's use of Purveyor is a perfect example H > of how Web-enabled OpenVMS applications can increase an organizations') > productivity and decrease costly waste.  > H > WebPrinter saves time and money by providing a Web-based front end for> > viewing and accessing reports. In conjunction with Purveyor,C > WebPrinter displays reports via any web browser using a company'sWF > Internet or intranet. WEBPrinter generates reports in HTML, allowingH > users to browse documents and print only the pages needed vs. printingE > out an entire, and often lengthy report. By viewing the report as ao@ > Web-based HTML page, users are also able to search reports. ByH > providing text search capabilities within reports, the ineffective and@ > timely process of paging through paper documents searching forG > specific data is eliminated. The products graphical front end further.G > simplifies the process of viewing reports, including familiar browserl1 > commands like GOTO, NEXT, PREVIOUS, and SUBMIT.  > D > WCF's WebPrinter runs under Process Software's Purveyor WebServer.F > "Purveyor's proven reliability and quality technical support made itG > the natural choice for bundling with WEBPrinter," stated Bill Farmer, F > President WCF. WebPrinter and Purveyor runs on TCPware, MultiNet and& > any other TCP/IP for OpenVMS stacks.R > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Technical DetailsR > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------C > Explore the Power of the Most Feature-Rich WebServer for OpenVMS:- > SSL Encryption Support > D > Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS is the first commercial WebE > server for OpenVMS to support Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) encryptionnE > services. Part of the feature-rich award-winning Purveyor WebServer C > family, Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS runs over the leading TCP/IPrG > stack for OpenVMS, TCPware from Process Software, or any other TCP/IP @ > for OpenVMS implementation. Now you can easily Web-enable yourH > existing OpenVMS applications, develop an internal corporate Intranet,D > or create a robust external Web presence - all within a secure Web > environment. > C > Using SSL encryption and authentication support, Purveyor Encryptn? > ensures the security of access, traffic, and requests made toyE > Web-enabled OpenVMS systems, which typically house mission-criticalnH > data. With Purveyor, your corporate information is secure. Here's why: > ? > Private: all messages between client and server are encryptediC > Authenticated: server and sender are authenticated through Publicr > Key/Private Key CertificatesC > Reliable: message integrity is ensured during transit by means ofr > message authentication code ? > Purveyor WebServer will also run without encryption services, ; > eliminating unnecessary network overhead if not required.tR > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Engineered for OpenVMSE > Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS has been designed to take advantage ofr? > the OpenVMS architecture. Not only is Purveyor the industry'st@ > highest-performance Web server for OpenVMS, but Purveyor fullyE > supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system forSG > incredible system throughput. Additionally, when coupled with Process F > Software's TCPware, the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,C > Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includinglF > transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This meansB > that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,D > either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyF > other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha	 > system!-R > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Search and Index EngineeG > The capability to index, search and retrieve documents from a browserSD > is provided with Process Software's WebSearch and WebIndex engine.H > Search forms can be completely customized, and the querying capabilityD > supports a variety of logical, proximity and wildcard operators toF > optimize results. You select the criteria for how the search resultsH > will be displayed. The matches will be displayed as HTML links, ranked > according to relevance.VR > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------# > Flexible and Robust User SecurityWD > Purveyor Encrypt offers organizations a highly flexible and secureA > environment for managing access to all documents on the server,eA > whether it be for an Intranet or Internet application. PurveyorsC > supports public key encryption and delivers server authenticationcG > using signed digital certificates. A digital certificate verifies then; > connection between a server's public key and the server'stH > identification. Digital signatures ensure the integrity of information > within a certificate.  > F > In addition to encryption, Purveyor offers additional administrativeC > and management tools, such as access controls and proxy services.e > E > Access Control - Secure your documents or server to only authorized-G > visitors. Management is easily accomplished through the Remote ServerrE > Manager, simply by point and click. ACLs do not need to be created.uD > The server provides functionality to restrict access to individualG > Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) pages based on IP address, username,iE > or both. This allows servers to be customized for access by groups,l@ > such as company employees or external users accessing specific= > information that may be restricted to authorized customers.a > H > Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS supports multiple authorization databasesG > for access control. In addition to Purveyor's built-in access control D > database which provides for Web access control without the need toD > create OpenVMS accounts for each Web user, Purveyor has integratedG > support for the use of the OpenVMS SYSUAF.DAT file for authorization.-G > Through the use of Purveyor's External Authentication Feature you canaH > substitute any external database, even integrate a relational database > like Oracle, or RDB. > F > Proxy Services - proxy server support is provided for HTTP, FTP, andB > GOPHER protocols, providing LAN security by restricting Internet@ > activities of LAN users. The proxy server also offers improvedF > performance feature by caching HTML pages to provide faster responseF > to clients on the LAN. Purveyor also provides proxy-to-proxy support< > for corporations with multiple proxy servers or firewalls.R > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > AuthenticationH > Purveyor Encrypt provides full access control to files and directoriesH > on the server. The secure server queries and verifies the integrity ofF > digitally signed documents as it receives them. Authentication takesD > place by using agreed upon keys to generate and verify the messageC > digest, which consists of summary information that is transmittedn > along with the message. R > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Key ManagementE > Purveyor Encrypt allows management of multiple keys, stored locallyn: > and accessible through a user-specified password. SystemF > administrators can create private keys specifying a password, createA > certificates which may contain the public key and the encrypted G > private key, and sign certificates specifying the private key to use.sR > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Application InterfacesH > ISAPI - Process Software has co-developed, with Microsoft Corporation,@ > a new Internet Server Application Programming Interface, which= > provides a faster, higher performance interface to back endtH > applications from the Web server. Based on its own DLL, ISAPI providesE > a significant performance advantage over conventional CGI. ISAPI isoB > supported by a number of Web server vendors allowing applicationB > developers to write for a single specification and to deliver onF > multiple platforms. Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS also supports the! > Common Gateway Interface (CGI). R > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Supports Multiple Web SitesrD > Purveyor supports many logical Web sites on one server system (128B > with the TCPware TCP/IP for OpenVMS stack). It supports multipleB > "virtual servers," where a single Web server process responds toD > multiple TCP/IP addresses and host names. It can also run multipleE > copies of the Web server, with independent configuration databases,r) > allowing totally independent operation.aR > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Customised LoggingE > Purveyor Encrypt provides full transaction logging, including time, G > date, HTML page, and the IP address of the requester, plus capture ofi> > "referred URLs". Users select information to log and report.R > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Server Management @ > Manage administrative features of the Web server from a remoteE > location on any browser. User authentication ensures secure access.-R > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------! > Templates and Sample Home PageseG > Sample HTML Web pages and Forms help you get started using the serveri > and its capabilities.    -- c Cheers, Ruslan.nD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com-8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RUe   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:46:05 -0500g* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>8 Subject: RE: Why Purveyor is the best webserver for VMS!- Message-ID: <0033000047967303000002L032*@MHS>v  H =0AHey- some of us *like* that "cumbersome character-cell-based interfa= ce".   :^)i   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETr' Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:50 PMuB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET4 Subject: Why Purveyor is the best webserver for VMS!    3 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation OverviewaH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------t5 Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS allows you to:s> Web-enable existing OpenVMS applications with a graphical user	 interfacem  D With Purveyor Encrypt you can add a Web interface onto your existing> applications and eliminate the cumbersome character-cell-based
 interface.  " Easily establish a secure Intranet  D The ideal foundation of a corporate Intranet, Purveyor can be set upE quickly and easily over your existing OpenVMS network. With a minimumg= investment in time and resources, departments can quickly andr> inexpensively publish information throughout the organization.  ( Develop a robust World Wide Web presence  E Purveyor Encrypt WebServer lets you take full advantage of the globale? marketing power offered by the Internet and the World Wide Web.U  @ Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS combines the reliability,C security and scalability of the OpenVMS platform with the graphicaln= ease-of-use and functionality of World Wide Web technologies.gH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ----------3 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation FeaturessH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------b2 Award-winning Web server performance and features:) Support of all industry standard browsersnD Extensive, easy-to-configure security, including SSL encryption, Key@ Management facilities, basic authentication, and access controls" Database access from a Web browser Engineered for OpenVMS Search and Index Engine-! Flexible and Robust User Security  Authentication Key Managementr Supports Multiple Web Sitese Virtual Servers  Remote server management) HTTP, FTP and Gopher proxy server supportP Purveyor allows you to:d  ( Web-Enable Existing OpenVMS Applications  F With Purveyor Encrypt and a minimal amount of programming, you can addA a Web interface onto your existing applications and eliminate thenE cumbersome character-cell-based interface. You'll also get all of theoB power of the Web, like hypertext links, Internet access, graphics, multimedia and more.  / Improve Corporate Productivity with an Intranet   = Purveyor Encrypt WebServer will let you improve your internalWD communications and productivity. The ideal foundation of a corporateF Intranet, Purveyor can be set up quickly and easily over your existingA OpenVMS network. With a minimum investment in time and resources,e= departments can quickly and inexpensively publish informationhD throughout the organization. Information such as product literature,F policies and procedures, price lists and virtually any other corporate@ information can be created, maintained and updated easily on theC Intranet. From a universal desktop browser, Intranet users can also-5 access existing corporate databases and applications.w  ! Develop an External Web Presence.d  E Purveyor Encrypt WebServer lets you take full advantage of the globalsF marketing power offered by the Internet and the World Wide Web. Or you> can use it to exchange confidential information between remote0 corporate locations around the world in minutes.H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------K5 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Case StudyaH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------  Case Study - WCF & Associates > Uses Purveyor and the Web to Enable OpenVMS Print Applications  @ Increase productivity and decrease report waste "Web-enabling anF OpenVMS application has proven to be successful for our clients." Bill Farmer, President, WCF  E Running under Purveyor WebServer, WebPrinter provides an easy to use,lA graphical front end to viewing, searching and printing reports onr OpenVMS systems.  E WCF & Associates, a Process Software reseller in Big Bend, Wisconsin, D bundles the Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS with WEBPrinter software,F an easy to use and cost saving tool for accessing and printing reportsE stored on OpenVMS systems. WCF's use of Purveyor is a perfect exampletF of how Web-enabled OpenVMS applications can increase an organizations'' productivity and decrease costly waste.n  F WebPrinter saves time and money by providing a Web-based front end for< viewing and accessing reports. In conjunction with Purveyor,A WebPrinter displays reports via any web browser using a company's D Internet or intranet. WEBPrinter generates reports in HTML, allowingF users to browse documents and print only the pages needed vs. printingC out an entire, and often lengthy report. By viewing the report as a > Web-based HTML page, users are also able to search reports. ByF providing text search capabilities within reports, the ineffective and> timely process of paging through paper documents searching forE specific data is eliminated. The products graphical front end further-E simplifies the process of viewing reports, including familiar browseri/ commands like GOTO, NEXT, PREVIOUS, and SUBMIT.-  B WCF's WebPrinter runs under Process Software's Purveyor WebServer.D "Purveyor's proven reliability and quality technical support made itE the natural choice for bundling with WEBPrinter," stated Bill Farmer,aD President WCF. WebPrinter and Purveyor runs on TCPware, MultiNet and$ any other TCP/IP for OpenVMS stacks.H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------p< Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Technical DetailsH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------,A Explore the Power of the Most Feature-Rich WebServer for OpenVMS:P SSL Encryption Support  B Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS is the first commercial WebC server for OpenVMS to support Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) encryption C services. Part of the feature-rich award-winning Purveyor WebServeriA family, Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS runs over the leading TCP/IPsE stack for OpenVMS, TCPware from Process Software, or any other TCP/IPn> for OpenVMS implementation. Now you can easily Web-enable yourF existing OpenVMS applications, develop an internal corporate Intranet,B or create a robust external Web presence - all within a secure Web environment.  A Using SSL encryption and authentication support, Purveyor Encryptd= ensures the security of access, traffic, and requests made to C Web-enabled OpenVMS systems, which typically house mission-criticaltF data. With Purveyor, your corporate information is secure. Here's why:  = Private: all messages between client and server are encryptedtA Authenticated: server and sender are authenticated through Publici Key/Private Key CertificatesA Reliable: message integrity is ensured during transit by means ofV message authentication code'= Purveyor WebServer will also run without encryption services, 9 eliminating unnecessary network overhead if not required.oH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------  Engineered for OpenVMSC Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS has been designed to take advantage ofr= the OpenVMS architecture. Not only is Purveyor the industry's-> highest-performance Web server for OpenVMS, but Purveyor fullyC supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system for-E incredible system throughput. Additionally, when coupled with Process D Software's TCPware, the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,A Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingmD transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This means@ that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,B either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyD other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha system!yH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------x Search and Index EnginenE The capability to index, search and retrieve documents from a browseraB is provided with Process Software's WebSearch and WebIndex engine.F Search forms can be completely customized, and the querying capabilityB supports a variety of logical, proximity and wildcard operators toD optimize results. You select the criteria for how the search resultsF will be displayed. The matches will be displayed as HTML links, ranked according to relevance.wH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------c! Flexible and Robust User Security B Purveyor Encrypt offers organizations a highly flexible and secure? environment for managing access to all documents on the server,b? whether it be for an Intranet or Internet application. Purveyor A supports public key encryption and delivers server authentication-E using signed digital certificates. A digital certificate verifies thee9 connection between a server's public key and the server'seF identification. Digital signatures ensure the integrity of information within a certificate.   D In addition to encryption, Purveyor offers additional administrativeA and management tools, such as access controls and proxy services.   C Access Control - Secure your documents or server to only authorized E visitors. Management is easily accomplished through the Remote Server C Manager, simply by point and click. ACLs do not need to be created. B The server provides functionality to restrict access to individualE Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) pages based on IP address, username, C or both. This allows servers to be customized for access by groups, > such as company employees or external users accessing specific; information that may be restricted to authorized customers.-  F Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS supports multiple authorization databasesE for access control. In addition to Purveyor's built-in access control B database which provides for Web access control without the need toB create OpenVMS accounts for each Web user, Purveyor has integratedE support for the use of the OpenVMS SYSUAF.DAT file for authorization. E Through the use of Purveyor's External Authentication Feature you canlF substitute any external database, even integrate a relational database like Oracle, or RDB.  D Proxy Services - proxy server support is provided for HTTP, FTP, and@ GOPHER protocols, providing LAN security by restricting Internet> activities of LAN users. The proxy server also offers improvedD performance feature by caching HTML pages to provide faster responseD to clients on the LAN. Purveyor also provides proxy-to-proxy support: for corporations with multiple proxy servers or firewalls.H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------o AuthenticationF Purveyor Encrypt provides full access control to files and directoriesF on the server. The secure server queries and verifies the integrity ofD digitally signed documents as it receives them. Authentication takesB place by using agreed upon keys to generate and verify the messageA digest, which consists of summary information that is transmittedy along with the message. H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------i Key ManagementC Purveyor Encrypt allows management of multiple keys, stored locallyo8 and accessible through a user-specified password. SystemD administrators can create private keys specifying a password, create? certificates which may contain the public key and the encryptednE private key, and sign certificates specifying the private key to use.yH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------  Application InterfacesF ISAPI - Process Software has co-developed, with Microsoft Corporation,> a new Internet Server Application Programming Interface, which; provides a faster, higher performance interface to back end,F applications from the Web server. Based on its own DLL, ISAPI providesC a significant performance advantage over conventional CGI. ISAPI isA@ supported by a number of Web server vendors allowing application@ developers to write for a single specification and to deliver onD multiple platforms. Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS also supports the Common Gateway Interface (CGI). H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------o Supports Multiple Web SitescB Purveyor supports many logical Web sites on one server system (128@ with the TCPware TCP/IP for OpenVMS stack). It supports multiple@ "virtual servers," where a single Web server process responds toB multiple TCP/IP addresses and host names. It can also run multipleC copies of the Web server, with independent configuration databases,o' allowing totally independent operation.sH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------c Customised LoggingC Purveyor Encrypt provides full transaction logging, including time,nE date, HTML page, and the IP address of the requester, plus capture ofm< "referred URLs". Users select information to log and report.H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------a Server Managementr> Manage administrative features of the Web server from a remoteC location on any browser. User authentication ensures secure access.aH -----------------------------------------------------------------------=	 ---------c Templates and Sample Home PagesrE Sample HTML Web pages and Forms help you get started using the server  and its capabilities.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:29:47 -0500l: From: shannon@news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)O Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The dem . Message-ID: <rf322a.l9g.ln@escape.shannon.net>  4 In article <a1qlk9$s7ha3$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>,4 Roland Hutchinson  <rolands.spamtrap@usa.net> wrote:  D > As a card-carrying Mac and Linux fanatic, I hate to have to point A > this out, but: Microsoft has for some time now been conducting  G > extensive usability research.  See www.microsoft.com/usability .  It pC > wouldn't surprise me to learn that they are actually outspending m > Apple on this work.   . The problem is that $$$ != useful information.  G In fact, the horrible Windows UI is often blamed on just that research.u@ They mostly observed people doing individual actions with the UI* and it looks more like design by mob-rule.  D Apple's research was never about individual operations, but workflowD as a whole.  Their goal was to maximize the amount of work done with@ a UI, not just optimize file copies to death like Microsoft did.       -- n  H UNIX/Perl/C/Pizza__________________________________shannon@widomaker.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:46:44 -0500s: From: shannon@news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)K Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demr. Message-ID: <kf422a.l9g.ln@escape.shannon.net>  . In article <3C41019E.4040806@beagle-ears.com>,+ Lars Poulsen  <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:-  I > >Stubbornly clinging to single button mice is just one of many gripes Is > >have with Apple.o > >eJ > Didn't someone say this week that if you plug a 2-button mouse into the  > USB port,-F > it works, and works as expected? If so,  I would say they are doing  > *exactly* theaE > right thing: Shipping it with a "beginner" interface, but allowing d > "experts" to upgrade.  > > > >   Another is their sky-high prices for mediocre hardware.  > >pC > Sounds like you are a "cheap" person. All in all, I think Apple'snH > prices are fairly reasonable. They aren't following eMachines into the> > $400 to $500 range,  but then I hear that those guys are not > profitable, either.t  E No, they are too high.  I don't think the machines are too high, it's- the small stuff.  C For example, I want a Mac with SCSI drives.  Their price for a SCSIuK subsystem and drive is ~4 times what I can get them for myself.  Why should4= I give them well over $1200 for what I can do for under $300?b  E To make matters worse, I have a very fast controller and drives readyiC for install in a Mac.  But they won't let me buy a computer with noe	 drives!  ,  D OK, so I'll order a minimal IDE drive and use it for something else.D Oh, but they only ship the most large and expensive IDE drives.  Why can't I order a 10-20GB drive?  F If I want to order IDE systems with a SCSI controller, the only optionF they give me is a braindead SCSI controller that's not worth anything.I You can't get a good SCSI controller from them without buying drives too, J and their price for the controller is as astronomical as the drive prices.  D Keep in mind I'm talking about what I can get shopping as a consumerE without going to eBay.  If I go to eBay or a drive distributor, I canhD get prices for SCSI systems at a fraction of what Apple charges, and4 furthermore, I'm sometimes getting better equipment.  I It's even worse if you are already a loyal Apple customer.  Let's say yourF have a blue/white G3 system, and you have an Adaptec 2940UW controller and two fast LVD SCSI drives.s  F Can you upgrade to a G4 system?  Hell no!  You have to buy an entirelyF new system, they will not sell you the base system even though you are already a loyal customer.r  E Why should you have to throw away a modern (maybe better than theirs)pG SCSI subsystem when you upgrade?  What if you are going to be accessingdC all of your files from a terrabyte storage archive?  You don't need-0 a freakin' overpriced 60GB drive in your system!  F Until Apple let's people do things like this, giving them more freedomE in their hardware purchases, they will always be losing market share.   F I would already own a Mac if they would let me buy one.  It's not justG price, I simply cannot get what I want from them, even though they makeK exactly what I'm looking for.c                                         -- e  H UNIX/Perl/C/Pizza__________________________________shannon@widomaker.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 21:38:06 -0500+ From: "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@KeithLynch.net> K Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demy+ Message-ID: <a22p2e$3f2$1@panix3.panix.com>n    Paul Guertin <pg@sff.net> wrote:C > Do you think that putting the command key on the mouse would makec( > the interface more intuitive, or less?  ) Peter Seebach <seebs@plethora.net> wrote:nC > Less.  The user is already exposed to "modifier keys", but havingt@ > some buttons on the mouse be buttons, and others be modifiers,D > sounds pretty confusing.  Meanwhile, if all the modifiers exist onB > both sides of the keyboard, the user can mouse with one hand and > modify with the other.  B I still don't see the point in using a mouse at all, unless you're@ using a paint program or playing a video game.  I never use one.@ I'm not sure how I *could* efficiently use one, since I use both hands for typing.h -- o< Keith F. Lynch - kfl@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/C I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, buteH unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable.  Please do not send meI HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:40:05 -0500n: From: shannon@news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq ) . Message-ID: <lj722a.i6h.ln@escape.shannon.net>  3 In article <slrna3uc55.h6i.rsteiner@isis.visi.com>, 2 Richard C. Steiner <rsteiner@isis.visi.com> wrote:: > In article <20020111074725.6aa55981.steveo@eircom.net>,  > Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote:s > E > >	Can you cite any examples where movies have been better than even-J > >quite bad books in the same genre ? I am quite sure that there are *no*H > >science fiction films that improve on novels with similar topics (let% > >alone the ones they are based on).M > J > Blade Runner?  Perhaps not an improvement on the original Philip K. Dick > novel, but certainly on par.  D I remember William Gibson said that Blade Runner is the world he sawF when he wrote Neuromancer, in other words, that city as The Sprawl aka BAMA.i       -- c  H UNIX/Perl/C/Pizza__________________________________shannon@widomaker.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:42:43 -0500o: From: shannon@news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )a. Message-ID: <jo722a.i6h.ln@escape.shannon.net>  1 In article <3C403B3B.12BC0977@trailing-edge.com>,o- Tim Shoppa  <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:w > Jack Peacock wrote:t > > = > > "Steve O'Hara-Smith" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in message 5 > > news:20020111074725.6aa55981.steveo@eircom.net...EG > > > Can you cite any examples where movies have been better than evenn) > > > quite bad books in the same genre ?  > > O > > Dr. Strangelove...the movie was brilliant and more coherent than any Philipg > > K. Dick story. > > > Philip K Dick stories are *purposefully* incoherent.  And DrD > Strangelove was (brilliant) slapstick satire, not science fiction.  B I feel like "Imposter" was very good, and it felt like a PKD novel; to me, though I admit to not having read one in some years.e  B I like that it bucked the cliche of happy endings and the complete2 predictability of most recent HollySci(TM) movies.     -- e  H UNIX/Perl/C/Pizza__________________________________shannon@widomaker.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:48:07 -0500B: From: shannon@news.widomaker.com (Charles Shannon Hendrix)V Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of compaq ). Message-ID: <n2822a.i6h.ln@escape.shannon.net>  7 In article <20020113130550.5b01c771.steveo@eircom.net>,n. Steve O'Hara-Smith  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:   > 	Road works means it doesn't' > 	Common sense isn't common or a sensee  > 	Hot dogs aren't (usually) dog > 	Trust me (need I say more)t$ > and one that puzzled me as a child > 	Lloyds Bank as your executor  > G > 	I have long believed that English is a language well evolved for thesJ > purpose of shading the truth, saying nothing in many words and providingD > plausible deniability no matter what was said - in short politics.  5 Maybe then it's our language that caused things like:o  #     central/government intelligencea
     help desk      software support
     cheap gasd     reliable car     absolutely free      and friendly firer  ( ..and so on.  We're programmed for it...       -- .  H UNIX/Perl/C/Pizza__________________________________shannon@widomaker.com   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Jan 2002 13:11:39 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories3 Message-ID: <9LsQNmzX7SZ+@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  n In article <343f30ae.0201151023.3c983681@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > Hello, > 4 > Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories?  0 Because you are running an older version of VMS.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.029 ************************