0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 30      Contents:8 Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism8 Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism8 Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism8 Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism8 Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism( And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop) Re: COM startup error  Re: COM startup error 3 Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal 3 RE: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal 3 Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal " Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" RE: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report1 Re: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism C Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available C Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available  Re: DCL (F$GETQUI) Problem Re: DCL (F$GETQUI) Problem' Re: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop ' RE: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop ' Re: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A RE: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! % Heads up: Compaq financial statements 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC  hushmag.tv cool new web-zineP Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable P Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable  Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet)  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Loading the ship with cheese  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast. RE: off-topic: naughty robot?  Re: off-topic: naughty robot?  RE: off-topic: naughty robot? 2 Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & JavaM Pathworks V6 VMS Server as BDC in NT Domain: machine account gets out of sync P Re: Pathworks V6 VMS Server as BDC in NT Domain: machine account gets out of syn PLUG: txt2pdf 5.5 
 Pro merger Re: Pro merger? Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C RE: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string C Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string ( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof! Re: TCP/IP Services echo service? " Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?" Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?" Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?" RE: vms emacs: last call? the end?3 Re: When do the HP Shareholders vote on the merger? ) Re: why case independence came into being ) Re: why case independence came into being ) Re: why case independence came into being ) Re: why case independence came into being ) Re: why case independence came into being  Re: x29 AND DTE ADDRESS P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of compF Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The demB Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The dem9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:56:42 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>A Subject: Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism ) Message-ID: <3C455C6A.F29B8A6C@127.0.0.1>   ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:  >  > From the article: L > "Compaq: Gartner has inflated the OpenVMS engineering cost for the port byQ > 500%, with the implication being that we will not do the port because it is two 
 > costly." > E > I would have figured that 500% was "five costly," not "two costly."  > (Probability Factor: 0.too)   G Some years ago I reviewed in detail a Gartner report. Let me quote from  my comments at the time:  G "...they may as well have published a report saying the moon is made of  green cheese."  H ..."The 'sources' are undefined and could well be a bloke down the pub."  E If you've bothered to read the disclaimer on a Gartner report, you'll G see that they DON'T stand by what they say. Do they provide horseracing  tips?    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:48:16 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> A Subject: Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism , Message-ID: <3C45768F.E16CA6A1@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:G > If you've bothered to read the disclaimer on a Gartner report, you'll I > see that they DON'T stand by what they say. Do they provide horseracing  > tips?   J Organisations such as Gartner exist to produce papers that reflect/supportL their customer's opinions/desires.  If some large customer is in the processJ of choosing product X, (and that is what they want to do), they will go toL Gartner and have Gartner concuct some study that shows that product X is the right decision.   K If some company has todecide between X and VMS and they prefer X, then they B will ask Gartner to concuct something that is negative about VMS.   G Remember that most pointy haired managers do not want to stand by their D decisions, they somehow need to back their decisions with some large8 consulting firm's study. And that is why Gartner exists.    J The problem is that what Gartner says for one client is taken as gospel by$ other clients and that sents trends.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:37:52 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>A Subject: Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism ) Message-ID: <3C458230.345287A6@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Nic Clews wrote:I > > If you've bothered to read the disclaimer on a Gartner report, you'll K > > see that they DON'T stand by what they say. Do they provide horseracing 	 > > tips?  > L > Organisations such as Gartner exist to produce papers that reflect/supportN > their customer's opinions/desires.  If some large customer is in the process  D I was watching "The Fast Show" the other night. The sketch where theA bloke goes to buy a pair of trousers... Here's a few select lines    "Are all these trousers 29.99?"  "Is this pair 29.99?"  ...  "Is this where I try them on?" "Can I wear them home?" > (handed bag with old trousers in) "Do my old trousers fit me?"+ "I suppose I sign here then. With my name?" ( "Do I go home now, is this the way out?" ...  "Does this bus take me home?"  "Do I get on this bus then?"   You get the picture.  B We (Computer Sciences) got asked to do a report into VMS for a VMSB customer (not one of our clients) relating to their environment inD detail. It wasn't all roses, but it wasn't negative either. I'm gladG they asked us and not Gartner. The client didn't tell us what to write, ? and I [among others] didn't tell the report writer what to say.   L > The problem is that what Gartner says for one client is taken as gospel by& > other clients and that sents trends.   Baaa!   A Unfortunately I believe you're making the right observation JF...    --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:17:18 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> A Subject: Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism 8 Message-ID: <ll2b4uge9u00fk5p943n79kqo913v67mgg@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:37:52 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   > M >> The problem is that what Gartner says for one client is taken as gospel by ' >> other clients and that sents trends.  >  >Baaa! > B >Unfortunately I believe you're making the right observation JF...  3 Aha. VMS just needs to *commission* a Gartner study   C Maybe that's why Gartner didn't listen to the VMS group's feedback. / They forget to put the cheque in the envelope!!    -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:11:14 -0700 (MST) " From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>A Subject: Re: (O.T.) Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0201160909420.14375-100000@athena.csdco.com>    Alan,   E Your pithy observation is probably true. Heh, Gartner got to eat too.   
 John Nebel  & On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Alan Greig wrote:  H > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:37:52 +0000, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> > wrote: >  > > O > >> The problem is that what Gartner says for one client is taken as gospel by ) > >> other clients and that sents trends.  > >  > >Baaa! > > D > >Unfortunately I believe you're making the right observation JF... > 5 > Aha. VMS just needs to *commission* a Gartner study  > E > Maybe that's why Gartner didn't listen to the VMS group's feedback. 1 > They forget to put the cheque in the envelope!!  >  > -- > Alan >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:37:48 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>1 Subject: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop) & Message-ID: <3C45C87C.CB5CF5A9@gmx.ch>  O Congrats to all of you who participated. Of course the trick was to give to the % FOR symbol a value containing a CALL.   P Here is my final version (limited to 15 loops), which actually does more or lessK the same as all your solutions (and which is also kind to FORtran users :-)      $! FOR_NEXT.COM  $ on warning then exit $ say = "write sys$output" $ say ""? $ say " This is FOR_NEXT.COM version x0.0-0 dated 15-jan-2002."  $ say "" $START: < $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Start value for loop (?=help)" $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit  $ if p1 .eqs. "?" then goto HELP $ dummy := 'p1' : $ if f$type(dummy) .eqs. "STRING" then goto NUMERIC_PLEASE3 $ if p2 .eqs. "" then inq p2 "End value for loop  "  $ if p2 .eqs. "" then exit $ dummy := 'p2' : $ if f$type(dummy) .eqs. "STRING" then goto NUMERIC_PLEASE. $ if ('p2'-'p1') .ge. 15 then goto NO_WAY_JOSE. $ if 'p2' .lt. 'p1' then goto NO_TIME_TO_WASTE9 $ if p3 .eqs. "" then inq p3 "DCL command to loop [none]" : $ if p3 .eqs. "" then p3 = "write sys$output i,"" (NOP)""" $ gosub INIT $LOOP: $ 'for i = 'p1 to 'p2  $    'p3	 $ 'next i  $ gosub TINI $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $INIT: $ save_FOR_symbol  = "" 4 $ if f$type(for) .nes. "" then save_FOR_symbol = for> $ for == "call FOR_PROCESSING"                  !global symbolP $ next = "gosub NEXT_PROCESSING !"              !local symbol with comment char. $ returnP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $TINI: $ dele_/symb/glob i  $ dele_/symb/glob f_max  $ if save_FOR_symbol  .nes. "" $ then $    for  == save_FOR_symbol $ else $    dele_/symb/glob for $ endif  $ returnP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $FOR_PROCESSING: $ subroutine $ for   == "!" $ i     == p3           !"p1"  $ f_max == p5           !"p2"  $ exit $ endsubroutine P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NEXT_PROCESSING:  $ i == i + 1G $ if 'i' .gt. 'f_max' then return       !will go to next line thus exit 0 $ goto LOOP					   !should be unique, of course.P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 $NO_WAY_JOSE: B $ say "%FOR_NEXT-F-GOSUBMAX, This version is limited to 15 loops." $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NO_TIME_TO_WASTE:O $ say "%FOR_NEXT-F-RUKIDDIN, May I suggest that you choose P2 greater than P1?"  $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NUMERIC_PLEASE:5 $ say "%FOR_NEXT-F-NUMEREQ, Value should be numeric."  $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $HELP: $ type/page sys$input  $DECK N    Welcome to the FOR_NEXT DCL procedure version x0.0-0 rev 0 build 935709145.  H  This procedure provides a demo to help in the implementation of the newM  FOR NEXT DCL instructions created by a somewhat paranoid former DEC engineer <  who prefers to remain anonymous like his hero R. M. SUPNIK.  M  The FOR_NEXT.COM procedure asks for starting and ending values in parameters O  P1 and P2 to perform a loop. The loop may execute a DCL command if provided as K  parameter P3. In that case, the DCL command should be enclosed with double N  quotes. If no command is given, it will display the loop index value followed  by the string (NOP).   %  This version is limited to 15 loops.   	  Example:     $ @for_next 3 8 "sh time"    16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06       $ @for_next 3 8  DCL command to loop [none]:  3 (NOP)  4 (NOP)  5 (NOP)  6 (NOP)  7 (NOP)  8 (NOP)     $EOD	 $ p1 = ""  $ goto START   That's all folks. + Thank you for (i = 1 to 42) DCLing with us.    D.  )now back to my SCSI cluster :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:24:45 -0500 3 From: "Gaitan D'Antoni" <gaitan.dantoni@compaq.com>  Subject: Re: COM startup error/ Message-ID: <bcf18.85$PZ4.633@news.cpqcorp.net>   0 "Phil Martyn" <pmartyn@csc.com> wrote in message7 news:23088ca1.0201150157.4c7a12f6@posting.google.com...  > Hello,G >     a message similar to this was posted some time ago but there were  > no takers. I thought I'd try. G >      I'm trying to run COM (in unauthenticated mode)on an Alpha GS60e F > running VMS 7.2-1 using TCPIP services (V5.0A ECO 3). Upon trying to9 > start the COM server I get the following message in the - > Dce$Specific:[Var.Rpc.Adm]DCE$RPCD.Err file  > E > (rpcd) Can't set ept object type: (0xe1281d2) invalid object (dce /  > rpc) > * >    BTW it's COM V1.2. Can anybody help ? >  > Phil Martyn.  L This may be related to a bad RPCD database. Shutdown RPCD using the command:&  $ @sys$startup:dce$rpc_shutdown clean? $! Answer Yes to the questions about deleting the RPCD database  Then try restarting COM    Gaitan D'Antoni   COM for OpenVMS Technical Leader4 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/dcom/ Compaq Computer Corporation    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:20:35 -0500 3 From: "Gaitan D'Antoni" <gaitan.dantoni@compaq.com>  Subject: Re: COM startup error0 Message-ID: <iFi18.110$PZ4.841@news.cpqcorp.net>  0 "Phil Martyn" <pmartyn@csc.com> wrote in message7 news:23088ca1.0201150157.4c7a12f6@posting.google.com...  > Hello,G >     a message similar to this was posted some time ago but there were  > no takers. I thought I'd try. G >      I'm trying to run COM (in unauthenticated mode)on an Alpha GS60e F > running VMS 7.2-1 using TCPIP services (V5.0A ECO 3). Upon trying to9 > start the COM server I get the following message in the - > Dce$Specific:[Var.Rpc.Adm]DCE$RPCD.Err file  > E > (rpcd) Can't set ept object type: (0xe1281d2) invalid object (dce /  > rpc) > * >    BTW it's COM V1.2. Can anybody help ? >  > Phil Martyn.  J Just got an update on this problem. This error indicates that the EthernetL device is unknown to DCE.  Do a $ SHOW DEVICE to get the device name of yourF Ethernet device (which will probably be something like EIA0)  then do:( $ DEFINE/SYSTEM DCE$IEEE_802_DEVICE xxxxL where xxxx is the 4 character device name (/SYSTEM is required). You'll needJ to add this define command to your system startup command procedure. Next,7 shutdown RPCD and delete the RPCD database files using:s% $ @SYS$STARTUP:DCE$RPC_SHUTDOWN CLEANTJ Answer Yes to the question about deleting the database files, then restart COM.   Gaitan D'Antonii  COM for OpenVMS Technical Leader4 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/dcom/ Compaq Computer CorporationA   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:40:31 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) < Subject: Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal, Message-ID: <a24adv$1mem$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  2 In article <B5I08.6203$E82.18042@typhoon.bart.nl>,%  "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes: * |> Since when does Kroatia run Usenet? ;-) |> V |> Hanse |> o@ |> Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message: |> news:L4m08.26078$JF.202537@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... |> >C |> > "Usenet Administration" <admin@ATEZTOD.AC.KR> wrote in messages1                                                ^^ 4 They probably assumed control when Korea gave it up.  1 By the way, I don't know why, but Croatia is .hr.e   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:51:17 -0800e# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r< Subject: RE: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEALDPAA.tom@kednos.com>u   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu]+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:41 AMV > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal >d >p4 > In article <B5I08.6203$E82.18042@typhoon.bart.nl>,' >  "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:c, > |> Since when does Kroatia run Usenet? ;-) > |>	 > |> Hanse > |>B > |> Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message< > |> news:L4m08.26078$JF.202537@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... > |> >E > |> > "Usenet Administration" <admin@ATEZTOD.AC.KR> wrote in messagee3 >                                                ^^ 6 > They probably assumed control when Korea gave it up. >e3 > By the way, I don't know why, but Croatia is .hr.   J I think H is pronounced like a uvular K, of course Croation uses the Latin alphabet whereas Serbian the Cyrillic >h > bill >S > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:25:54 +0100EB From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>< Subject: Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal6 Message-ID: <3C45B7A2.318@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 3 > By the way, I don't know why, but Croatia is .hr.s   HR = Hrvatska = Croatian   -- a ME Posted by news://news.nb.nus   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 06:49:57 -0800/ From: on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) + Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessm= Message-ID: <b2faac46.0201160649.7bd4498b@posting.google.com>e  C NT IS VMS in a sense, I don't know where you are coming from.  DaveeE Cutler wrote both systems, and NT is essentially a version of VMS fornF PC's.  NT was developed on the Alpha, and the virtual addressing modelF is just about the same, obviously it doesn't have the same complexity.,  So, I'm not sure where you are coming from.  E VMS still has a large installed base - and it is still the choice foreD mission critical applications, it's just that compaq doesn't push itB because of Microsoft.   Period.  If VMS were spun off, then they'd? have the freedom to run Microsoft in the ground.  Yes, it coulde happen.t      h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<$tlYXmlVZp9a@eisner.encompasserve.org>...W > In article <3C3F9941.607A6DB7@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:( > > L > > First, no one using Unix or NT is going to consider VMS a better OS with > > case INsensitive filenames.s > G > NT is case preserving, like /PARSE=EXTENDED , so anybody who is happyhA > with NT in that regard should be happy with VMS in that regard.a > C > As for those using Unix, never say never.  Nobody who _likes_ the B > case-sensitive filenames on Unix would like /PARSE=EXTENDED, but@ > some who are _using_ Unix would prefer VMS.  (Granted, none of> > them are the sort to be here in comp.os.vms defending Unix.) > ( > > I know there are those cov folks whoL > > disagree, but I think it would be a BIG plus if at least filenames couldJ > > convert one-to-one. Also, Unix style symbolic links must be supported.J > > Hard links a-la "set file/entry=xxx.dat yyy.dat" are not sufficient. II > > could live without these things, but I know non vms people are alwaysNI > > touting these deficiencies as examples of how old and out of date vms- > > is.- > I > Since Unix predated VMS, "out of date" is hardly a correct description..J > NT is newer than VMS, so it would appear that case preserving is the way= > to be up-to-date.  VMS (on Alpha) got there before Unix :-)  > J > > In fact if I had my way I'd create an OS that was a super set of VMS &J > > Unix, where DCL & csh & ksh would all work just fine on the underlying > > system.a > @ > Fred said that is where they are headed with the DII COE work,B > including the capability to choose a case-sensitive file system.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 06:49:57 -0800/ From: on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles)m+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessh= Message-ID: <b2faac46.0201160649.7d4794f8@posting.google.com>a  C NT IS VMS in a sense, I don't know where you are coming from.  DavetE Cutler wrote both systems, and NT is essentially a version of VMS foroF PC's.  NT was developed on the Alpha, and the virtual addressing modelF is just about the same, obviously it doesn't have the same complexity.,  So, I'm not sure where you are coming from.  E VMS still has a large installed base - and it is still the choice fornD mission critical applications, it's just that compaq doesn't push itB because of Microsoft.   Period.  If VMS were spun off, then they'd? have the freedom to run Microsoft in the ground.  Yes, it couldg happen.4      h Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<$tlYXmlVZp9a@eisner.encompasserve.org>...W > In article <3C3F9941.607A6DB7@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:e > > L > > First, no one using Unix or NT is going to consider VMS a better OS with > > case INsensitive filenames.  > G > NT is case preserving, like /PARSE=EXTENDED , so anybody who is happysA > with NT in that regard should be happy with VMS in that regard.e > C > As for those using Unix, never say never.  Nobody who _likes_ the B > case-sensitive filenames on Unix would like /PARSE=EXTENDED, but@ > some who are _using_ Unix would prefer VMS.  (Granted, none of> > them are the sort to be here in comp.os.vms defending Unix.) > ( > > I know there are those cov folks whoL > > disagree, but I think it would be a BIG plus if at least filenames couldJ > > convert one-to-one. Also, Unix style symbolic links must be supported.J > > Hard links a-la "set file/entry=xxx.dat yyy.dat" are not sufficient. II > > could live without these things, but I know non vms people are alwaysnI > > touting these deficiencies as examples of how old and out of date vmst > > is.a > I > Since Unix predated VMS, "out of date" is hardly a correct description. J > NT is newer than VMS, so it would appear that case preserving is the way= > to be up-to-date.  VMS (on Alpha) got there before Unix :-)n > J > > In fact if I had my way I'd create an OS that was a super set of VMS &J > > Unix, where DCL & csh & ksh would all work just fine on the underlying > > system.  > @ > Fred said that is where they are headed with the DII COE work,B > including the capability to choose a case-sensitive file system.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:07:32 -0500d* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>+ Subject: RE: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businesso- Message-ID: <0033000048053602000002L022*@MHS>s  ) =0ADon't start with that Cutler business.a  < It's a quarter-truth at best, (I'm feeling charitable today): and has already been hashed out at least ad nauseum if not* ad infinitum in this and other newsgroups.  8 Search the comp.os.vms.archives if you don't believe me.  $ NT was *not* developed on the Alpha.H [A former co-worker was on the original NT to Alpha porting team at DEC= ]   ? As for your second paragraph, I can agree with those sentimentsj better.(   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0* Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 10:03 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET+ Subject: RE: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business,    C NT IS VMS in a sense, I don't know where you are coming from.  DavenE Cutler wrote both systems, and NT is essentially a version of VMS for F PC's.  NT was developed on the Alpha, and the virtual addressing modelF is just about the same, obviously it doesn't have the same complexity.,  So, I'm not sure where you are coming from.  E VMS still has a large installed base - and it is still the choice fortD mission critical applications, it's just that compaq doesn't push itB because of Microsoft.   Period.  If VMS were spun off, then they'd? have the freedom to run Microsoft in the ground.  Yes, it could0 happen.m      8 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message< news:<$tlYXmlVZp9a@eisner.encompasserve.org>... > In articleH <3C3F9941.607A6DB7@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writ= es: > >tH > > First, no one using Unix or NT is going to consider VMS a better OS=  withe > > case INsensitive filenames.e >oH > NT is case preserving, like /PARSE=3DEXTENDED , so anybody who is hap= pyA > with NT in that regard should be happy with VMS in that regard.w >eC > As for those using Unix, never say never.  Nobody who _likes_ theaD > case-sensitive filenames on Unix would like /PARSE=3DEXTENDED, but@ > some who are _using_ Unix would prefer VMS.  (Granted, none of> > them are the sort to be here in comp.os.vms defending Unix.) >q( > > I know there are those cov folks whoH > > disagree, but I think it would be a BIG plus if at least filenames = coulduH > > convert one-to-one. Also, Unix style symbolic links must be support= ed.(H > > Hard links a-la "set file/entry=3Dxxx.dat yyy.dat" are not sufficie= nt. IOH > > could live without these things, but I know non vms people are alwa= ysH > > touting these deficiencies as examples of how old and out of date v= ms > > is.t >pH > Since Unix predated VMS, "out of date" is hardly a correct descriptio= n.H > NT is newer than VMS, so it would appear that case preserving is the = way== > to be up-to-date.  VMS (on Alpha) got there before Unix :-)o >=H > > In fact if I had my way I'd create an OS that was a super set of VM= S &OH > > Unix, where DCL & csh & ksh would all work just fine on the underly= ing- > > system.- >-@ > Fred said that is where they are headed with the DII COE work,C > including the capability to choose a case-sensitive file system.=    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 12:32:14 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business-3 Message-ID: <ivD$lwdfnk1$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <b2faac46.0201160649.7bd4498b@posting.google.com>, on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) writes:-E > NT IS VMS in a sense, I don't know where you are coming from.  DaveR > Cutler wrote both systemsf  =    Dave Culter did not write RSX, VMS, or NT.  He probably isiC    responsible for similarities in the I/O subsystem.  NT certainly-$    has gained nothing else from VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:14:37 -0800i' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>t= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report-+ Message-ID: <3C45A6ED.5D036A0D@caltech.edu>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote:F > For instance, Itanium uses the ACPI interfaces for configuration andH > power management - so perhaps one day you will see power down modes on > Itanium platforms.  3 That would be one odd capability for an OS designed!0 to have 99.9999% uptime.  I guess one could idle0 half the processors in a 128 cpu monster without6 losing uptime, but somehow it doesn't seem likely that1 anyone will be sweating the electricity costs for / that category of big iron.  However it would bet4 very nice on that OpenVMS/Itanium laptop.  (That's a/ joke folks - look up the power requirements forp
 these chips.)n  < Think, think, think.  AH, it's a military application!  Idle< the JSTARS to save power and AC on the aircraft and then pop= it up in under a second from idle when it's needed.  Probably 7 useful when flying transatlantic to/from a battle zone.d< Definitely not something you'd want to employ while engaged!   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:20:26 -0500a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>:= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report10 Message-ID: <NHi18.111$PZ4.804@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C4486AB.E39051F7@videotron.ca>...p >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:OE >> >If the Alpha version lags far behind the IA64 version by the timeo	 customershJ >> >are ready/forced to go to IA64, the migration will cost customers much more >> inI& >> >terms of human resources and time. >> >> This is NOT the plan. >0G >Can you comment on the plan to retire/mature VMS on Alpha only 2 yearsj after:C >it is available commercially to customers on IA64 ? (eg: in 2006).   K First, get your quotes right, you dropped the original author, and it might7* look like this was entirely written by me.   Now, to answer your question  >                   THERE IS NO PLAN TO RETIRE OPENVMS ON ALPHA.  B You are taking an "at least" in a guarantee, and turning it into a retirement date.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:25:09 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>p= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner reporte0 Message-ID: <eMi18.112$PZ4.841@news.cpqcorp.net>  @ David Mathog wrote in message <3C45A6ED.5D036A0D@caltech.edu>... >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:eG >> For instance, Itanium uses the ACPI interfaces for configuration andtI >> power management - so perhaps one day you will see power down modes on  >> Itanium platforms.n >y4 >That would be one odd capability for an OS designed1 >to have 99.9999% uptime.  I guess one could idlen1 >half the processors in a 128 cpu monster without 7 >losing uptime, but somehow it doesn't seem likely that12 >anyone will be sweating the electricity costs for0 >that category of big iron.  However it would be5 >very nice on that OpenVMS/Itanium laptop.  (That's ai0 >joke folks - look up the power requirements for >these chips.) >7    H Actually, that is exactly what some people want - even on big iron.  TheD cost of electricity and cooling can amount to quite a bit in a largeK installation.  If you can drop the CPUs into low-power mode, you save money  on both.  = >Think, think, think.  AH, it's a military application!  Idlet= >the JSTARS to save power and AC on the aircraft and then popp> >it up in under a second from idle when it's needed.  Probably8 >useful when flying transatlantic to/from a battle zone.= >Definitely not something you'd want to employ while engaged!r >.    K The defense folks usually don't want power down modes by default.  And theyeE would rather melt the CPU than shut it down in a over-temp situation.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:05:50 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>x: Subject: Re: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism8 Message-ID: <uija4ukuf6d5na96t09nhektusg3h4pdja@4ax.com>  @ On 15 Jan 2002 16:28:34 GMT, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) wrote:   >fE >Compaq should post their rebuttal on the Wall Street Journal and CIO 
 >Magazine.  @ Exactly. Instead Compaq sets up witch hunts for Compaq employeesD leaking internal information, which actually mentions VMS, to organs1 such as The Inquirer and The Register. Strange...   D Why oh why oh why should this document only see the light of day viaF the Inquirer's "leakware" network. Can any Compaq employee tell me why0 this document isn't on  www.openvms.compaq.com ?   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 08:12:21 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)>L Subject: Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available3 Message-ID: <saIOv1KJqlJ5@eisner.encompasserve.org>>  l In article <d0acbf7e.0201151326.7f7b29c0@posting.google.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Brad Hamilton) writes:E > I'm having trouble downloading the SDK - my browser is treating the  > executable as a text file. >   F    No.  Mozilla 0.9.5 on my Alpha at the time.  It did want to handle G    Multinet's replacement .so file as text, but I used the right mouse e4    button to select download and that came out fine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:42:32 GMT 3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton) L Subject: Re: Compaq SDK/RTE/Fast VM v1.3.1-1 for OpenVMS Alpha Now Available/ Message-ID: <sjg18.35$M3.160@news-srv1.fmr.com>R   Hi Bob,.  W Right mouse click seems to be working fine.  Thanks to you and John Santos for the tip!s  c In article <saIOv1KJqlJ5@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:em >In article <d0acbf7e.0201151326.7f7b29c0@posting.google.com>, sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Brad Hamilton) writes:CF >> I'm having trouble downloading the SDK - my browser is treating the >> executable as a text file.h >> @ >.G >   No.  Mozilla 0.9.5 on my Alpha at the time.  It did want to handle nH >   Multinet's replacement .so file as text, but I used the right mouse 5 >   button to select download and that came out fine.t >e   Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 07:34:34 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)o# Subject: Re: DCL (F$GETQUI) Problemh3 Message-ID: <AENj2tTG72D1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <3C445E7B.8D863368@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  >  > Rob Young wrote: >> tq >> In article <343f30ae.0201140649.7d29dcd1@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:  >> >J >> > WARNING! Running any DCL queue-related command (like SHOW QUEUE, SHOWD >>                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^G >> > ENTRY, etc.), will destroy your context if you are looping throughA, >>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^F >> > queues, jobs, or files. Use SPAWN SHOW ENTRY, etc., to avoid this
 >> > trap! >>  M >>         Thanks a bunch for this.  I had given up trying to figure out what-# >>         was whacking my context.- >>  G > its a shame F$GETQUI doesn't have a feature like F$SEARCH's stream IDp  > to work around this limitation >   I It took me a few hours to work out what was going on as well when I first'H encountered this a few years ago. I think that the VMS documentation for9 F$GETQUI should be enhanced to document this restriction.o  D I will send a copy of this to openvmsdoc@zko.mts.dec.com (as per the V7.2 DCL Dictionary address).h   Simon.   -- .G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       n+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.e   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 07:47:50 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)e# Subject: Re: DCL (F$GETQUI) Problemg3 Message-ID: <XBGYoidvlkyc@eisner.encompasserve.org>m  } In article <AENj2tTG72D1@eisner.encompasserve.org>, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:l > F > I will send a copy of this to openvmsdoc@zko.mts.dec.com (as per the > V7.2 DCL Dictionary address).i >   @ It appears to be openvmsdoc@compaq.com now. It's a pity that CPQ; couldn't keep a published email address working for longer.p   Simon.   -- tG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       u+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:53:45 -0500 0 From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.spammenot.ca>0 Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop1 Message-ID: <jsg18.188$EI.1182@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>a  J It probably isn't what you did, and it would certainly not work outside ofH this context (the LOOP label must exist in order for my code to work). IF haven't found a better way to handle this so far. And I won't look forL another method (I still have useful work to do!) but wait to see what others
 come up with.a  J Also I added a subroutine, which you seem not to have but then I can't seeJ just how right now. How else would you get the values of the start and end
 (1 to imax) ?p   Here's my answer   $INIT: $ for:=call fore< $ if f$type(count_for) .nes. "" then deleo/sym/glo count_forD $ next:= "if count_for .le. 'end_for then goto loop !" ! exclamation	 required!a $ return $  $ for: subroutine& $     symbolname == p1    ! "I"  $     start_for == p3    ! 1 $     end_for == p5    ! "IMAX" K $     if f$type(count_for) .eqs. "" then 'symbolname == 'start_for  ! Set Ih to 17 $     'symbolname == 'symbolname + 1 ! increment I by 1- $     count_for == 'symbolname $ endsubroutine:   And it returns:t $ @f 3   16-JAN-2002 09:48:13   16-JAN-2002 09:48:13   16-JAN-2002 09:48:13   --   Syltrem I http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en franais) > To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address  F "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> a crit dans le message news: 3C449F9A.BD3CAA6A@gmx.ch...iE > I have just terminated a FOR loop for DCL (because Hoff said it wasv missing [inm > page 2 of his book] :-)  >r= > I hide the initialization code and post only the main code:- >d > $ set noon6 > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Enter number of loops" > $ gosub INIT
 > $ imax = p1e > $LOOP: > $ 'for' i = 1 to imaxM > $    show time > $ 'next' i > $ exit > $! > $INIT: > ../..t
 > $ return >, > $ @for_next_demo 3 >   15-JAN-2002 19:30. >   15-JAN-2002 19:30r >   15-JAN-2002 19:30l > $Z >@% > Who will write the right INIT code?c >< > :-)1 >7 > Didier "I love VMS" M. > --I >   --------------------------------------------------------------------- G > MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.html G > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670p1 > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.M >nJ > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseJ > On parle franais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English spoken >t1 > Available _worldwide_ on the 1st of April 2002.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:01:13 -0500x1 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com> 0 Subject: RE: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loopO Message-ID: <025766C9BBC5D511A4ED00B0D0F08C23163140@ny_exchange1.maintech1.com>   , Since it seems to be a contest, how is this?  
 $ set noon4 $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Enter number of loops" $ gosub INIT
 $ imax =3D p1o $LOOP: $ 'for' i =3D 1 to imaxt $    show time
 $ 'next' i $ exit $! $INIT: $ i      =3D=3D 0  $ for    =3D=3D "i =3D i + 1!"4 $ next   =3D=3D " if (i .lt. imax) then goto LOOP !" $ return   Mike Farrell   > -----Original Message-----3 > From:	Didier Morandi [SMTP:Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch]p) > Sent:	Tuesday, January 15, 2002 4:31 PMf > To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come. > Subject:	DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop >=20E > I have just terminated a FOR loop for DCL (because Hoff said it was % > missing [in page 2 of his book] :-)e >=20= > I hide the initialization code and post only the main code:a >=20 > $ set noon6 > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Enter number of loops" > $ gosub INIT > $ imax =3D p1m > $LOOP: > $ 'for' i =3D 1 to imax> > $    show time > $ 'next' i > $ exit > $! > $INIT: > ../..0
 > $ return >=20 > $ @for_next_demo 3 >   15-JAN-2002 19:30u >   15-JAN-2002 19:30t >   15-JAN-2002 19:30f > $g >=20% > Who will write the right INIT code?e >=20 > :-)t >=20 > Didier "I love VMS" M. > --=20a >   =rE ---------------------------------------------------------------------.G > MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmloG > Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670a1 > 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.  >=20B > Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS =	 Expertise0G > On parle fran=E7ais, Man spricht Deutsch, Habla Castellano, English =, spoken >=201 > Available _worldwide_ on the 1st of April 2002.n   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 08:48:59 -08003 From: keith.mandle@connectfree.co.uk (Keith Mandle)d0 Subject: Re: DCL minute of the day: the FOR loop= Message-ID: <b6da468e.0201160848.548203a4@posting.google.com>   Z Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in message news:<3C449F9A.BD3CAA6A@gmx.ch>...Q > I have just terminated a FOR loop for DCL (because Hoff said it was missing [ine > page 2 of his book] :-)c > = > I hide the initialization code and post only the main code:M >  > $ set noon6 > $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Enter number of loops" > $ gosub INIT
 > $ imax = p1  > $LOOP: > $ 'for' i = 1 to imaxg > $    show time > $ 'next' i > $ exit > $! > $INIT: > ../..V
 > $ return >  > $ @for_next_demo 3 >   15-JAN-2002 19:30A >   15-JAN-2002 19:30S >   15-JAN-2002 19:30. > $w > % > Who will write the right INIT code?x >  > :-)o >    How about this: -t $ init:w $  for == "call for_command", $  next == "if idx .lt. imax then goto loop" $  idx == -1	 $  returno $w $ for_command: subroutinen $  if idx .eq. -1  $     then idx == p3 $     else idx == idx + 1t $  endif $  endsubroutine   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:47:00 +0000k% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?8 Message-ID: <3uia4uount4d7h9qunrm6d852v0asm3msd@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:55:44 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"w$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   > & >Michael A. Foley wrote in message ... >># >. Me, I'd rather see Sledgehammer.  >> >  >aM >My only knowledge is that this product is a IA32 with 64-bit extensions.  So M >what is it's page protection scheme?  How many modes?  Does it have a "real"oJ >console?  Or is it a BIOS based crock?  What are it's MP sync primitives?  F www.x86-64.org has full details (It is an official AMD site). Click on* "documentation" Not read it myself... yet.   >  >e   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:39:44 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>dJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?8 Message-ID: <jkha4ugs8ov3pdfpok9111ab48g4l6l905@4ax.com>  6 On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:32:58 -0500, "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com> wrote:   K >    Yet it has ALOT (and I mean Sagans of $$) more marketing muscle behind-K >    it than Alpha ever did or could. I'm not saying it's the better choiceo
 >technically.BH >    If we all went with the better choice technically, we wouldn't have	 >Windows!@  ; I'm sick to death saying this but DEC sales repeatedly toldb@ non-technical senior management at VMS sites that Windows NT wasD better technically. Which caused me enormous grief when I argued the@ other way to (the librarian) head of the combined IT and Library service.  K >    It's the marketing you have to look at, not performance, not technicals	 >accumen.N  ; I don't call what DEC sales did marketing. I call it a lie.-  K >    Intel can "afford" to spend huge amounts to MAKE it the standard. WillhM >    it become the standard? Who knows. But IA-64 has a better chance becauser; >    of who is pushing it. Me, I'd rather see Sledgehammer.d  " I admit I quite liked that show :)  L >> There is indication that it will be able to outperform what Alpha will or >> could have been.l >>K >> The fact that Compaq has begun to make promises/concessions/garantees toyI >> customers is a pretty good indication that Compaq knows very well thatf >IA64o5 >> will not beat Alpha's performance for a long time.t >mK >    If performance was the only criteria, Alpha would be at the top of thet >heap.M >    But it's not Blanche, it's not the only criteria. Customers bought IA-32nK >    systems in droves over the higher performing Alpha. Why? Applications,s >cost,  E All of the cheaper Alpha systems were restricted to NT. That lost DECSB sales of 30 VMS Alpha Multias at my previous university employer..  F >    etc.. Did they want higher performance? Yes. Were they willing to  >    sacrifice for it? Few have.  C At my current employer we bought two XP1000s running NT. Could havedE bought up to 30 with NT and Tru64 this location only. Packed with RAM-= and RAID disks they would have come in at about $20,000 each.rC Fortunately Compaq dropped Alpha/NT and EDS dropped Unigraphics foreE both Alpha/NT and Alpha/Tru64 before we spent a fortune. EDS gave therA reason for dropping both Alpha  ports (in private) as "Compaq are>D phasing out Alpha". Rich Marcello responded to this by telling me he  would put EDS right. Well yes...  = Is it any wonder I consider Compaq's senior management (abovel. Marcello) as a bunch of mendacious mendicants. >m= >    I'm not telling you anything you shouldn't already know.y  D Compaq and DEC Alpha product people have had no idea of the truth upA to now. Think I'm slowly getting through to them where the *real*0 problem is.,   >y >miket >r   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:49:51 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>nJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?8 Message-ID: <s1ja4u06km534smr2j1umt7c40qnp30duv@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:49:31 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   >mJ >Apparently you never used a Jensen (DEC2000, aka PC AXP 150).  Aside from9 >the CPU chip, about as off the shelf as you can imagine.1  E I am constantly amazed that a Multia (which looks at board level moreD/ like a Timex/Sinclair ZX81/TSxxxx) can boot VMS    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:32:30 +0100g7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>oJ Subject: RE: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6BE3@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>s  < > The best way for this to happen though would be if Compaq K > were forced by the  government to retake Alpha from Intel. If Compaq were  to do * > this unilaterally, it would anger Intel. >   5 Which goverment should forced Compaq to retake Alpha.o7 Compaq is an international company so as Intel and HP.    H Several goverments had to aprove if the merger is allowed by their local rules.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:35:08 -0500a5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>uJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?0 Message-ID: <DVi18.114$PZ4.725@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C448A27.2F33BD67@videotron.ca>...e >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: F >> Our plans for the IPF port have not changed, and the merger did not changeJ >> them.  The OpenVMS port is not dependent on the merger happening or not
 >> happening.r >wI >The problem I have is that I do not trust the folks above Marcello. They D >killed Alpha and Tru64 to please other companies breaking their own previousI >commitments, so current commitments by Marcello and below have no value.: >mJ >> No downgrade of VMS is planned.  Try to be somewhat objective.  OpenVMS on2 >> Alpha and IPF should be functionally identical. >sH >But IPF is inferior to Alpha and years behind for the types of features that@ >the remaining VMS customer base expects. (Wildfire type stuff). >d    I You are confusing a chip with a system platform.  You don't think that we B are busily designing and building a Wildfire class Itanium system?  K Itanium is behind the curve in respect to the EV7 for large MP systems, buti. my guess is that we'll se them catch up there.  H But not everyone buys a huge system.  The ES40/ES45 and DS20 systems are very big sellers.   F >When you look at how long it took to finish the Digital work to get a WildfireD >to market, do you think that Compaq will fund VMS specific hardware? >development faster than it funded the completion of Wildfire ?v >q  L Hello.  The point is that there is no longer any need to build a VMS-only or UNIX-only box.  K >The remaining VMS costomers don't want to boot VMS on a proliant box. TheygG >want to boot galaxies on some wildfire type of system. So your porting  project I >won't be of much use until customers can actually get IA64 hardware that' will/ >replace the  big alpha iron they already have.u  I You will have to take it on faith that these projects are underway.  I do-4 not have authorization to share the Itanium roadmap.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:56:38 -0500 / From: "Michael A. Foley" <mikiefoley@yahoo.com>aJ Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?/ Message-ID: <u4bj773ne6o99f@corp.supernews.com>o  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message) news:W6_08.43$PZ4.152@news.cpqcorp.net.... > ' > Michael A. Foley wrote in message ...b > >2$ > . Me, I'd rather see Sledgehammer. >1J > My only knowledge is that this product is a IA32 with 64-bit extensions. SoG > what is it's page protection scheme?  How many modes?  Does it have a@ "real"K > console?  Or is it a BIOS based crock?  What are it's MP sync primitives?u >n  K     My comment was only based on "rooting for the little guy" and not basedeH     on technical viability or otherwise. I should have clarified that. I haven'tdK     read the docs extensively on either platform. (too busy with school andeB     trying to start a business)  Also, it's an unreleased product.  H     As Alan mentioned, www.x86-64.org has what is available today as far     as docs go.   D                                                                 mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:23:22 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>yD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!8 Message-ID: <s9ka4u4igumhcj6bqsko1oucjs1ib5h3td@4ax.com>  A On 15 Jan 2002 09:01:11 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)u wrote:  J >This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsI >Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this, 3 >Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!  > ( >http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm >b! >Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"e  C The most likely reason is that someone very high up in HP or CompaqsF told them something different. Recall Carly's repeated statements thatA she'd spent the last few months explaining in detail just how shee* would rationalize things after the merger.  D Note that the Aberdeen group popped up saying something very similarB and still refused to alter their predictions/recommendations afterD debating the issue with senior members of VMS engineering and othersD right here in comp.os.vms/info-vax. We can assume these analysts areF thick as shit or assume they are repeating the highest level info they) have. Actually probably a bit of both :-(v  F Personally I hope the stupidity of senior HP and Compaq management hasC reached the point of annoying some people they really don't want to0B fall out with. Wonder just how many other Bohemian Grove attendees& Walter Hewlett has spoken to recently? -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:25:28 +00001% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>eD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!8 Message-ID: <v5la4ugftjiim3mkf2u338f49cq7b280mv@4ax.com>  @ On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:17:02 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:a    J >I get nothing but a blank in the area where I'd expect to see the text of= >this article.  Is the link correct or is theinquirer broken?a  ; Here it is in case you or others are still having problems.w  / Response to Gartner's Research Note SPA-14-7940e Management Summary  ? On 20 December 2001, Gartner Group published a Research Note oncF entitled "The Future of OpenVMS" which presents a bleak assessment forD OpenVMS customers regarding the pending merger of HP and Compaq, and; specifically the move to the Itanium(tm) Processor Family. m  C The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the drafttE copy made available to us for review and talked with Gartner directlyeB to ensure that Gartner was working from the latest information andB facts. The report issued ignored most of these discussions. Compaq@ senior management will be reviewing this rebuttal with Gartner.   0 The Gartner Research Note states the following:   D Compaq will fail to port the entire OpenVMS operating environment to$ IPF by 2003/2004 (0.8 probability).   ? Compaq: OpenVMS engineering spent four months investigating andeD planning the port of OpenVMS to the Itanium(tm) Processor Family andF has found nothing to prevent us from meeting these dates; therefore we1 disagree strongly with their probability number. r  ? Gartner assessment: The full porting will cost no more than $40IE million over a three-year period, although the entire cost, includingr? e-business infrastructure, scaling, system management and other6: modernizing capabilities, will run to about $200 million.   F Compaq: Gartner has inflated the OpenVMS engineering cost for the port@ by 500%, with the implication being that we will not do the portD because it is two costly. Our estimate is that the port will requireB between 25 and 40 engineers to do over a three year period, with a cost of $30 to $40 million.   F Gartner assessment: "according to Compaq's records, [OpenVMS installedE base] stands at 400,000 systems although we believe active production"D systems could be 30 percent to 40 percent lower, with a large-enough= maintenance revenue stream (estimated at more than $1 billion & annually) that is too high to ignore.   F Compaq: Gartner assessment the OpenVMS installed base is 30 - 40 lowerF than the 411,000 systems and the $2 billion in service revenue that we provided them.    D In summary, we believe that the Gartner Group Research Note has overE estimated the cost of the port, under estimated the size and value ofd< the customer base, as well as the economic benefits of lower development costsl  # Report details and Compaq responsesnB To better prepare you for questions you will likely encounter from@ your customers and partners, the following includes the specific; Compaq written responses provided to Gartner Group prior to E publication of the Research Note. The direct dialogue augmented these-C written responses to the draft copy. It is structured to follow ther flow of the document.    Strategic Planning Assumptions m@ Gartner assessment: "Compaq will fail to port the entire OpenVMS> operating environment to IPF by 2003/2004 (0.8 probability)."   @ Compaq response: This assumption was made despite our input thatD OpenVMS Engineering has spent the last four months investigating andD planning the port of the entire OpenVMS operating environment to theA Itanium(tm) Processor Family and we are very comfortable with theDF 2003/2004 dates. We have found nothing in our investigation that leads( us to believe we won't make those dates.  B We strongly disagreed with the other probabilities assigned withinF this section and provided Gartner with the following response prior to
 publication: o  E "We disagree strongly with the above probabilities. We have spoken toiF thousands of our OpenVMS customers since the IPF and HP announcements.C As we have briefed them we have asked them about how confident they @ are in the strategy and what their migration plans are. The vastA majority (well more than 80%) remains positive about staying withoF OpenVMS, either continuing on Alpha or moving to IPF when available inC 2003/2004 or later in the decade. They are extremely happy with the3D IPF decision, and believe it gives their OpenVMS systems a new leaseE on life. We have heard numerous "now I can run my business on OpenVMSrB forever" statements from customers". We have also provided GartnerE with the opportunity to speak with some of these customers as a proofs point.>    Body of report 5E Gartner assessment: "Grafting it [OpenVMS] onto the Itanium processorBA family (IPF) is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole."m  C Compaq response: This is not a "graft", it is a full port, which is,E quite achievable as a result of all the work we have been doing sincei# 1991 to make OpenVMS more portable.   F The OpenVMS strategy is directly supportive of the strategic vision of: "market-unifying architectures and major cost reductions":  > First, the move to IPF is exactly in line with the strategy ofE converging our system architectures. With the port of OpenVMS to IPF,MF we can now take advantage of an industry-standard architecture and the" move to a "commodity-based" world.  @ Second, the cost-savings that accrue to the OpenVMS P&L from not> having to fund long-term Alpha chip or hardware development isE significant, making the OpenVMS business even more profitable than ito was.  E Given the profitability of the OpenVMS business (made more profitable A by the IPF decision) and the large and happy/loyal installed base F (411,000 systems), there is no business justification to abandon these6 customers and cope with the ill will that will result.  D Gartner assessment: Port to Itanium will be a huge undertaking givenB proprietary subsystems, many users will require fine-comb testing, etc.   Compaq response:E All new development work (e.g. OpenVMS Galaxy, 64-bit addressing, DII C COE) done since 1991 has been done in C, which has greatly enhancede the portability of OpenVMS.-  F The planning has been completed for the port of all of the proprietaryA subsystems, as well as the non-proprietary, open subsystems. SomeAA portion of the work will be required to port the compilers to thesF Itanium(tm) Processor Family; another portion will be required to portB the architecture-specific components of the operating system. OnceB these two pieces have been completed, the remainder of the work toF port the operating system and subsystems will be relatively easy since= these components are mostly written in high-level languages.    @ User applications written in high-level languages should requireD little or no changes when ported to OpenVMS on the Itanium ProcessorB Family, regardless of which supported OpenVMS subsystems are used.D Users will have to test their applications once they've been ported,B but since all available System Services will be ported and tested,C users should not have to perform fine-comb testing of every line ofaA code. In fact, since the operating system, utilities, and layeredaA products that make up OpenVMS utilize a significant number of them@ available system calls, Compaq will have thoroughly tested those5 system calls long before shipping the first systems. n  C Source compatibility is planned so that maintaining applications onnF both of the platforms will be easier and less costly for customers andE partners. We researched layered products running on OpenVMS, and haveeB confirmed that the vast majority will only require recompiling and re-linking.   D This port is very different from the VAX-to-Alpha port. Consider the	 following(   VAX-Alpha Alpha-Itaniumc # Modules affected 1100 50-100 # Code streams 2 1 # Engineers/3 years 200 25-40t  ? Gartner assessment: The full porting will cost no more than $40aE million over a three-year period, although the entire cost, includingd? e-business infrastructure, scaling, system management and others9 modernizing capabilities, will run to about $200 million.   F Compaq response: (Note: The draft attributed a $200M investment to theE Itanium port. We provided the following correction, yet Gartner still A chose to assign the $200M to the entire Itanium cost in the finalf	 report.) m  F The port is nowhere near a $200M investment. We anticipate that at itsB peak we will have about 40 engineers working on the port, and willA spend about $30-40M in total over a three-year period. During the D discussion, the $200M investment was further clarified as the entireB OpenVMS business investment - not just that related to the Itanium efforts.  B Gartner assessment: Included in the assessment about Alpha and VAXF hardware support, Gartner makes the statement that Compaq will supportD OpenVMS through 2010 despite the following written response from us.  D Compaq response: We will continue to sell new AlphaServer systems asD long as there is significant customer demand, and our expectation isC that this will be at least several years beyond the introduction oftC our last EV7-based system in 2004, most likely extending out to the A 2007-2008 timeframe. Compaq's standard policy is to make hardwaretE maintenance services available for at least five years after the dateaC of last sale for any specific AlphaServer model. If you extrapolatefC the dates above, this means support for the last AlphaServer modelsuF shipped would be available into the 2012/2013 timeframe. Lastly, whileA Compaq's policy is to provide support for a minimum of five years F after the date of last sale, we strive to do what is necessary to meetF the needs of our customers. The best evidence we have of that is todayA we are still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systemsnD purchased well over 10 years ago. We will be doing new functionalityF releases of OpenVMS for Alpha users at least through 2006. Beyond that; timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance releases will continue. .  F Gartner assessment: "according to Compaq's records, [OpenVMS installedE base] stands at 400,000 systems although we believe active productionaD systems could be 30 percent to 40 percent lower, with a large-enough= maintenance revenue stream (estimated at more than $1 billions% annually) that is too high to ignore.   @ Compaq response: We corrected the 400,000 to 411,000, and the $1C billion estimated maintenance revenue stream to $2 billion. NeitherlA correction was incorporated in the final report. Additionally, wen> added government/public sector to the list of mission-criticalD environments, which also was not included. The source of the comment> about the active production systems is unknown and we strongly disagree with the assessment.B   Exercise Caution summaryB Gartner assessment: Will HP sincerely commit to such a complex andE costly task (among other migrations such as: Himalaya NonStop to IPF,aF MPE/iX migration, converging Tru64 and HP-UX) when it must demonstrate+ compelling cost economies from the merger? d  D Compaq response: As stated above, the port is not a huge cost, it isD $30 - $40 million over three years with the pay back of an even more> profitable business and a satisfied customer base with 411,000 systems.  ? Gartner assessment: Can Compaq maintain such a reserve force ofoC technical specialists in a relatively long and uncertain transitione period?p  ? Compaq response: Not sure what is meant by a reserve force. Our>? specialists are actively engaged today in customer projects foreF OpenVMS. Most of these resources are delivering Compaq Global ServicesD activities (Plan/Design/Implement/Manage/Support). CGS is focused onC growing Business Continuity Services (an OpenVMS sweet spot) and ono? growing outsourcing services to leverage the talent in managing @ complex environments. New growth in e-business implementation is ramping up rapidly.i  C Gartner assessment: Will the shrinking pool of ISVs remain loyal tom make it worthwhile for users?   E Compaq response: Our strategic ISVs have stated commitments to remain F with us, and we continue to attract new ones such as BEA. Given we areC going to enable them to support a common code base across Alpha andaC IPF, they view the port to IPF as very positive, as it will providewC customers with a more industry-standard platform and hence open theg? possibility of growing their business further. We have providednC Gartner with ISV names to contact for validation of our statements.s  @ Gartner assessment: Will compromises be made on what gets portedB according to the complexity and difficulty (especially when only a& small segment of users are affected)?   ? Compaq response: What gets ported has been decided. The portingkE decisions have been validated by our customers at various forums heldiE around the world, since the announcement of the port. Compaq products > that run on OpenVMS V7.2x today will be transitioned to future, Itanium-based systems with some exceptions:   0 Products not previously ported from VAX to Alpha- Products retired or in the retirement processuF Products where end of service life has been established and will occur prior to the Itanium release3 Products in (or moving to) "Mature Product" support   @ Customers are notified that no further development will occur onF products when they are moved to Mature Product status (Exceptions: FMSD and Datatrieve will be ported to the future OpenVMS Itanium systems)  D Gartner assessment: What if the IPF implementation proves unequal to? the performance of Alpha (EV7 has been hinted to be superior inb performance to McKinley)?   E Compaq response: We believe EV7 and EV79 will be very competitive and B attract significant OpenVMS customer interest. We also believe the@ Compaq/Intel partnership will yield leadership Itanium processorD family chips over time. We plan on a large overlap in our transition= period to support the entire OpenVMS base in their plans, andm- customers will only move when it makes sense.i  C Gartner assessment: How successful will enterprises be in retaining  OpenVMS skills?l  C Compaq response: This becomes less of an issue over time given JavalE and C++-based application environments. Additionally, we put programs E in place over a year ago to aid in reversing this trend - EducationaleF License Program, new training programs, monster.com. Also, outsourcingE is a major CGS [Compaq Global Services] focus and allows customers torF focus on their core competencies while CGS manages the IT environment.  A Gartner assessment: What will be the target platforms for OpenVMS B (e.g. Superdome/rp8400/L series, GS/ES/DS models, merged platform,; other IPF systems based on Compaq Proliant, Blades, etc.)? l  D Compaq response: Current Alpha roadmap remains; OpenVMS will ship onE the Itanium-based systems available in the 2003/2004 timeframe. Early A porting & testing will be done on the ProLiant Itanium platform. s  D Gartner assessment: Currently, no conclusive answers to these issues have come from Compaq. p  A Compaq response: The information in this document was provided toeD Gartner and ignored. Senior Compaq management will be reviewing this rebuttal with Gartner.   Bottom Line E Gartner assessment: Users should not feel compelled to follow the IPFdE road map. Users should seriously consider alternative migration plansjA from OpenVMS to other operating systems, preferably Unix, but notaF Tru64. The intent should be to have most, if not all, of the migration@ complete within three years of the final Alpha generation. UsersD determined to move to IPF should not expect a full OpenVMS port with> all layered software. Even if BEA WebLogic and Oracle Rdb, forD example, are supported on Alpha OpenVMS during the next three years,F there is high risk that ISVs will discontinue enhancements and supportE on short notice. If users do decide on the IPF plan, they should signyE support contracts to engage Compaq technical support. These contractshC should provide non-chargeable services that ensure full bug-for-bugrC compatibility plus certification for IPF with guaranteed equivalent E performance and functionality to that of the Alpha systems from whichc the users have migrated.  F Compaq response: There is no reason why a customer who has had success? with OpenVMS needs to look at an expensive migration to anotherSF operating environment. Gartner is asking our OpenVMS customers to giveA up the availability, reliability, scalability, and security theirtB businesses depend upon while at the same time creating unnecessaryD migration costs for an unstated benefit. Customers we have spoken toE are quite comfortable knowing they can continue to stay with OpenVMS,e= get many years of enhancements and support, plus get the costdF advantage of an industry-standard platform. They have told us that theE decision to stay with OpenVMS just got easier to justify within theirl$ IT strategy given the move to IPF.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:57:19 +0000o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>tD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!8 Message-ID: <42ma4ugv8gie35abk8no9l4iuej69jretr@4ax.com>  D On 15 Jan 2002 22:41:39 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:   >aP >"Grafting OpenVMS onto the Itanium processor family (IPF) is like trying to fit >a square peg in a round hole."      >n >	"Oh!"  I feel faint . . ./C >	The razor sharp analysis is making my head spin.  Bleeeeccchhh!!!n  E I'd love to post the entire Gartner analysis but it costs $95 dollarsrE just to read it and I suspect they'd sue me.  Even with our corporatedE Gartner subscription it is trying to charge me $95. Gartner certainly  know how to make money!    >p >				Rob >oO >"Of the whole rabble of thieves, the fools are the worst; they rob you of both + > time and peace of mind."         --Goetheg   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:45:35 -0500n5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>iD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!0 Message-ID: <n3j18.115$PZ4.799@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C4512FD.DB69B9FE@videotron.ca>...  >Rob Young wrote:yL >> Compaq response:  We corrected the 400,000 to 411,000, and the $1 billion6 >> estimated maintenance revenue stream to $2 billion. >a, >Agree about the maintenance revenus stream. >uJ >However in terms of number of VMS machines, whether 400,000 or 411,000 is notnH >what is important. What is important is the fact that Gartner mentioned thatI >it suspects that a non trivial percentage of those numbers are no longer  >active customers. >t    H Gartner fabricated a guess (pulled a number out of their ***).  Based on what?     K >Compaq did not provide any information on what exactly that 411,000 numberh wastH >derived.  Does that include former customers who still have licences to theira" >names with such licences unused ? >o  A >Does it include customers on self-maintenance ? It would be mostr interestingsJ >to get a number of customers and average number of machines per customer.I >Along with that, the number of customers who have maintenance contracts.o >p    1 Sure.  Along with the customer list.  Get a grip.d   >uI >About the Gartner prediction that there is an 80 chance that the port too IA64' >predicted for 2003/2004 won't succeed.i >lK >While I have no doubts that VMS engineer will be able to recompile VMS foreF >IA64, and that budgets to complete such a port are somewhat creedible unlessJ >Carly makes some rash decisions, where Gartner may have a point is in the >schedule of such a delivery.o >s  I BS.  I am project leading the initial bootstrap.  I can tell you that themL only question *I* have is how much sooner than the official schedule we will have it done in.  G >The remaining VMS customers may not be interested in VMS runnning on an small L >Proliant with a Merced slow as molasses chip in it. Such a system is pretty0 >certain to be available with VMS by 2003-/2004. >o   I expect faster larger systems.:  L >What is not so certain is whether Intel will be able to deliver *ON-TIME* aJ >chip that has respectable performance and the features necessary to build( >Wildfire-style machines that customers. >w  J WIldfires and Marvel are not going away.  By the time they start looking aC little dated, I expect Itanium systems that will start to catch up.t  K But let me repeat something from another note - we sell TONS of DS10, DS20,3+ and ES40 class systems, not just Wildfires.e  I >In that respect, perhaps Gartner has a point that there is a signifiacntaF >chance that Compaq won't be able to deliver VMS on a respectable IA64 platformJ >by the 2003-2004 time frame. (even though VMS will be running on whatever IA64 >is available at that time).  I There is a significant chance VMS and it's LPs will be ported to Itanium.tL But there is no guarantees about the performance of Itanium chips - however,J we have built in a *long* cycle of fast EV7 platforms to make sure that we0 have a overlap until Itanium platforms catch up.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:58:22 -0500O% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t. Subject: Heads up: Compaq financial statements, Message-ID: <3C45A31B.ED79272C@videotron.ca>  9 http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/011602/index.htmln  K (Check out Capellas's picture  at bottom. Am I the only one who thinks thato- they need a better PR departmnet at Compaq ?)f  L Financial statements will be webcast on both the microsoft junk media player5 and real player starting at 16:30 EST this wednesday.&   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:13:58 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e: Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC, Message-ID: <a248s6$1ltk$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  , In article <3C42B21E.ACD00E9E@videotron.ca>,(  JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes:5 |> > "Paul DeMone" <pdemone@igs.net> wrote in messagetO |> >> > In other words time flies like an arrow? (sorry, its an old and obscure  |> > > AI joke)  |> u |> a< |> Isn't it supposed to be "fruit flies like an arrow" ?????   No, fruit flies like a banana.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   u   ------------------------------   Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 06:41:06t# From: "HUSHMAG.TV" <PSG@hushmag.tv>o% Subject: hushmag.tv cool new web-ziner9 Message-ID: <iss.4033.3c4574cf.b7efe.1@mx2.east.saic.com>h   <html> <head> <title>emailpage.gif</title>5 <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;"> q <!-- Fireworks 4.0  Dreamweaver 4.0 target.  Created Wed Jan 16 05:45:24 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time) 2002-->n </head>sX <body bgcolor="#ffffff" leftmargin="66" topmargin="0" marginwidth="66" marginheight="0"> <table width="100%" border="0">a   <tr>     <td valign="top"> $       <table width="63%" border="0">         <tr>           <td> <a href="http://www.hushmag.tv"><img name="emailpage" src="http://www.hushmag.tv/images/emailpage.gif" width="640" height="488" border="0"></a> d             <!-- fwtable fwsrc="emailpage.png" fwbase="emailpage.gif" fwstyle="Dreamweaver" fwdocid = "742308039" fwnested="0" -->           </td>a
         </tr>        </table>Q       <font face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color="#000000" size="4">click the o       picture </font><br>cT       <p><font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">wanted beautiful          girls WIN 100,000<br>n9         IF CHOOSEN AS THE HUSHMAG.TV GIRL OF THE YEAR<br>c?         ALSO WE PAY $100.00 DOLLARS AN HOUR TO SHOOT FOR US<br> _         PLEASE CONTACT HUSHMAG.TV at <a href="mailto:PSG@hushmag.tv">hushmag@hushmag.tv</a><br>g>         send a picture of yourself with your contact info:<br>         <br>R         <a href="mailto:PSG@hushmag.tv">click here to be removed</a> from mailing          list</font> <br>         <br>T         This ad is being sent in compliance with Senate bill 1618, Title 3, section          301. </p>uQ       <p>This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301. n=         Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, </p>mQ       <p>Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped  Q         at no cost to you by sending a reply to this email address with the word s2         &quot;remove&quot; in the subject line<br>
       </p>I       <p> <font color="#000000" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <br>s         </font></p>bV       <p><font face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color="#FFFFFF" size="2">r</font></p>	     </td>o   </tr>  </table> </body>h </html>n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:04:55 +0000 4 From: John Laird <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable a8 Message-ID: <fo4b4ukgh6jrujihgko7g1jcleco56k2rr@4ax.com>  - On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:37:41 -0000, "Malcolm"m* <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:  B >"John Laird" <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message3 >news:udp64u4gtmjn40gc38km7m3ri16ti87k9q@4ax.com...t0 >> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:07:05 -0000, "Malcolm"- >> <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:e >>M >> >Or is there an X Windows call to do this? Return the version of the Motifw >> >client libraries?c >>I >> I'm about 99% sure there is.  Check carefully some "functions" are notiD >> simply compile-time defines, though - if you really need run-time >> information, that is. >>E >Yes, it's run-time information I want. I already have a compile-timeL >solution usingpH >SYS$UPDATE:DECW$GET_IMAGE_VERSION, which seems to work OK with a bit of >DCL...a  L This is a bit kludgey - Xm.h provides #defines for XmVERSION, XmREVISION andF XmUPDATE_LEVEL which allows you to uniquely identify 1.2-3, 1.2-4 etc.  K Now, I know you are going to say you want run-time information ideally, butlI I have to say this goes against the general Unix/X paradigm which is thattH you rebuild your applications on the target machine and furthermore keepK doing so when anything "major" happens.  In this case, compile-level prettyiK much equals run-level, so you select instruction sequences at compile time.oH I can't find any header references to run-time routines, and without theI manual cannot be sure, but it looks as the toolkit designers didn't thinkhK there was a need for run-time identification either.  As Fred has said, the1G X layer is X11R5 always (pending R6 work and presuming you don't have ai8 truly ancient version of Decwindows/Motif which was R4).  I The more VMS-oriented view is to ship upwards-compatible binaries, and/or-H fiddle about with logical names and selection of shareable images, but IK think this would still come unstuck on a per-image-activation level becauseeH mwm is always running and so I would guess you have an active version ofE Motif/X which may not play well with an image which tried to redefinemK decw$xmlibshr etc elsewhere.  I have only ever done this to build images touC run elsewhere.  I think you may have to do the same if that is yourm
 intention.     	Johnq   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:49:23 -0500i5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>eY Subject: Re: In an executable, how do I retrieve the version information for a shareable s0 Message-ID: <X6j18.116$PZ4.861@news.cpqcorp.net>   John Laird wrote in message ...v. >On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:37:41 -0000, "Malcolm"+ ><malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:r >rC >>"John Laird" <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in messageo4 >>news:udp64u4gtmjn40gc38km7m3ri16ti87k9q@4ax.com...1 >>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:07:05 -0000, "Malcolm"g. >>> <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >>>nH >>> >Or is there an X Windows call to do this? Return the version of the Motifn >>> >client libraries? >>>lJ >>> I'm about 99% sure there is.  Check carefully some "functions" are notE >>> simply compile-time defines, though - if you really need run-timep >>> information, that is.m >>>eF >>Yes, it's run-time information I want. I already have a compile-time >>solution usingI >>SYS$UPDATE:DECW$GET_IMAGE_VERSION, which seems to work OK with a bit of  >>DCL... > I >This is a bit kludgey - Xm.h provides #defines for XmVERSION, XmREVISIONi andeG >XmUPDATE_LEVEL which allows you to uniquely identify 1.2-3, 1.2-4 etc.  >u    J The problem with this is that it only tells you what you compiled against.H If there is a upward compatable Xm shared library, then you have no idea3 what you are actually executing the client against.c   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 06:15:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m' Subject: Re: ISO 9960 question (Joliet)s3 Message-ID: <COH+D0fE1js8@eisner.encompasserve.org>k  ^ In article <3C44AA62.4488839@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:  A > (You gotta remember, I was complaining a couple years back that7' > Alpha VMS was lacking ODS-1 support!)   C Well now you can buy that by getting the VAX emulator for Alpha :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:01:38 +0000r% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheeseI8 Message-ID: <j6na4uo6i6hgr3887ng7apnd99ihim1k8u@4ax.com>  5 On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:48:16 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"l$ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:   >e= >After you have a sufficient amount of money, who needs work?e  / If only we could convince Bill Gates to retire.m  C The answer to your question is the greedy, the power mad  and those 1 with just an over-blown sense of self importance.o  C But to be fair there are a few who do it for altruistic reasons buti0 the money markets are always suspicious of them.   >  >n >c >  >n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:52:55 -0500h5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>n) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheeset0 Message-ID: <faj18.117$PZ4.809@news.cpqcorp.net>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <3C448B35.1EC2B638@videotron.ca>...s >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:w >>K >> I imagine this is the same deal as any big merger.  You identify the keyeG >> people who you believe that the combined companies must retain to beo= >> successful, and then you give them an incentive to remain.o > J >That implies that employees do not support such a merger and will seek to work elsewhere.o  J Yes and no.  People leave companies all the time for various reasons.  ButJ if your planning assumed that certain key individuals are required to be aL success - then it makes sense to give them an incentive to not leave for any reason.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:56:08 -0500t5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>q) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheesep0 Message-ID: <fdj18.118$PZ4.857@news.cpqcorp.net>   Alan Greig wrote in message ...a6 >On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:48:16 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge"% ><kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  >r >>> >>After you have a sufficient amount of money, who needs work? > 0 >If only we could convince Bill Gates to retire. >a    J I've known people who own their own businesses - and even though they haveI achieved financial security - the business is what they love to do.  Someu are just workaholics.o  L Give me the choice between being Bill Gates and Paul Allen - I'd choose PaulI Allen.  Take the money and run, then just dabble in whatever interests mea
 this week.  L I figure there is at least a lifetime worth of things to see and do before I
 get bored.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 08:24:00 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.d3 Message-ID: <pm5rYPOzlnaP@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  l In article <a224f5$j3k$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com> writes:A > Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge.t > I'm clueless.o  -    You should simply put that on your resum.p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:13:39 -0500 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>n) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.l+ Message-ID: <3C4598A3.7F42A1FE@hsc.vcu.edu>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:. > e > In article <zU1TcUjU8Dlf@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:ng > :In article <Zg118.57$PZ4.456@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  > :eN > :>   Please provide a pointer to the copy of the FAQ you are looking at, andL > :>   I will ask the FAQ maintainer :-) to request that the copy of the FAQH > :>   you are looking at either be updated or be removed from the 'net. > :nN > :And if you get into a loud hallway argument with the FAQ maintainer ?   :-) >  >   Eh?s >   F Hey you guys, i'm hard of hearing, please keep the noise down!!!!!!  I can't not hear..!!!p  1 hee hee... I refuse to be p.c. about my hearing..r  	 Jim Agnewh    P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------L >       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.comP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:11:26 +0000s% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.	8 Message-ID: <nr5b4u8bh5uq2vs5ikqv2sc00m6p7vrehu@4ax.com>  F On 16 Jan 2002 08:24:00 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  m >In article <a224f5$j3k$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "news.mindspring.com" <pleasehireme@hotmail.com> writes:uB >> Have a job interview tommorrow, they want 'some' VMS knowledge. >> I'm clueless. > . >   You should simply put that on your resum.  D If I was interviewing for a helpdesk position where knowledge of VMSA was an advantage but not essential I'd give him the job if he was-E honest at the interview and I knew he'd gone to the trouble of askingkA in comp.os.vms and looked at the basic documentation before-hand.   B Assuming someone with detailed VMS knowledge did not apply anyway. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:42:57 -0500u* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>& Subject: RE: off-topic: naughty robot?- Message-ID: <0033000048027963000002L032*@MHS>o  9 =0AApologies in advance, but when I saw the title of this.: thread the first thing that came to mind (since I use MRU) was0   ROBOT BAD ROBOTn   which, of course led to-   $ robot bad robot gka0:t! The BAD command is not supported.c/ %ROBOT-E-CLI_COMMAND, CLI: Unrecognized command    $ robot spank robot gka0:m# The SPANK command is not supported.e/ %ROBOT-E-CLI_COMMAND, CLI: Unrecognized command      WWWebb -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 9:42 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET& Subject: RE: off-topic: naughty robot?     Joshua Cope wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:r >n >>advanced text search:b= http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/sites/search/textadv >>A >>"chocolate" yields 1,405,273* >>"chocolate and bicycle" yields 3,944,133 >> >uE > In the "Advanced Text-Only Search", it appears the word AND must ben, > uppercased to do what you'd expect. Weird. >   0 Says clearly under the "Boolean Query:" text box& "Use keywords AND, OR, AND NOT, NEAR".  " It's *always* required upper case.   Jim=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:45:05 -0500n* From: Joshua Cope <Joshua.Cope@Compaq.com>& Subject: Re: off-topic: naughty robot?* Message-ID: <3C45AE11.E49B3715@Compaq.com>  
 Jim wrote:2 > Says clearly under the "Boolean Query:" text box( > "Use keywords AND, OR, AND NOT, NEAR". > $ > It's *always* required upper case.  % It's inconsistent. The search page ate,    http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/adv+ allows either case, while the page JF citeda=    http://www.altavista.com/sites/search/sites/search/textadvb requires uppercase.2   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 10:57:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)T& Subject: RE: off-topic: naughty robot?3 Message-ID: <qYZu7tN0bpvC@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  Z In article <0033000048027963000002L032*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:; > =0AApologies in advance, but when I saw the title of thisa< > thread the first thing that came to mind (since I use MRU) > wasr >  > ROBOT BAD ROBOT   C I believe "Bad Robot" is the name of the production company for ther8 American Broadcasting Company television series "Alias".   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:55:44 +0100A From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & Java4& Message-ID: <3C45CCB0.3050906@home.nl>  H I've been studying the Oracle 9i installation manual for VMS today, and C noticed that they seem to have their own version of the Apache web ,3 server for VMS, and also their own version of Java.m  G I'm puzzled by this. We all want Oracle to improve their work for VMS,  F and here we see Compaq creating the Compaq Secure Web Server for VMS, F and Oracle also producing a version of Apache for VMS. The same thing # seems to apply (partly ?) for Java.1  G Why on earth isn't is possible that Compaq and Oracle work together on iE this, and give us one version of this software ? Or that Oracle just nH refers to Compaq for the webserver and Java ? After all, Oracle doen't  9 supply us with compilers either, so why Apache and Java ?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 01:44:28 -08001 From: dmitry_bessonov@yahoo.com (Dmitry Bessonov)0V Subject: Pathworks V6 VMS Server as BDC in NT Domain: machine account gets out of sync= Message-ID: <a85679c0.0201160144.364fb446@posting.google.com>k  B An AXP VMS V7.2-1 node running Pathworks V6.0D server (transports:B DECnet, TCP/IP - V5.0A ECO3, NETBEUI) participates in NT Domain asC BDC. It has two computer accounts, NMOS01 for this node itself, andaD NMOS0 as cluster alias. Every week or so the computer account of itsA cluster alias, NMOS0, gets out of sync with PDC (WinNT 4.0 SP6 ono@ Intel platform). The message in PDC's system log is typically as follows:   [unnecessary details snipped]h   Event ID: 5722 Source: NETLOGON Type: Errore Category: None  E The session setup from the computer NMOS0 failed to authenticate. The C name of the account referenced in the security database is NMOS0$. - The following error occurred:1 Access is denied.G  	 [snipped]h  F The machine account of NMOS01 (the node itself, _not_alias_) is always OK.f  C AFAIK, PDC normally changes every machine account's password once aiA week. With PWRK server, it looks like PDC is unable to change theFE password for its _cluster_alias_account_ . The only solution known to0E me so far is to stop Pathworks, reconfigure the server as a member of E _another_NT_Domain_(even non-existent one is OK), manually delete itseA machine accounts in old domain, then reconfigure it once more andtE bring back to the original domain. This usually works for next 7 daysp5 - i.e. until the PDC tries to update passwords again.w  D This server is a production system that should work 24X365 or almostD so. With Pathworks server V5 such problem could be solved on the runF by changing the role from BDC to Standalone and back. PWRK V6 does not= support Standalone role, i.e. only reconfiguration helps. And"D reconfiguring Pathworks alias requires system reboot. Guess what ourA management says to us when we ask for permission to stop PWRK and  reboot the machine...w  F Any idea how this problem with PWRK V6 can be solved? Does anyone knowD of a tool that can manually recover a machine account password in NT domain on the fly?   TIA, Dmitry  E PS: Management sees this problem as one more reason to get rid of VMSh in favor of NT...    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:47:06 -0500>4 From: John Malmberg <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>Y Subject: Re: Pathworks V6 VMS Server as BDC in NT Domain: machine account gets out of synb4 Message-ID: <3C45845A.7020300@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   Dmitry Bessonov wrote:  D > An AXP VMS V7.2-1 node running Pathworks V6.0D server (transports:D > DECnet, TCP/IP - V5.0A ECO3, NETBEUI) participates in NT Domain asE > BDC. It has two computer accounts, NMOS01 for this node itself, and F > NMOS0 as cluster alias. Every week or so the computer account of itsC > cluster alias, NMOS0, gets out of sync with PDC (WinNT 4.0 SP6 on B > Intel platform). The message in PDC's system log is typically as
 > follows: >  > [unnecessary details snipped]o >  > Event ID: 5722 > Source: NETLOGON
 > Type: Error" > Category: None > G > The session setup from the computer NMOS0 failed to authenticate. The-E > name of the account referenced in the security database is NMOS0$.   > The following error occurred:r > Access is denied.u >  > [snipped]e    G The loss of the account password can occur through network problems or gG the reboot of one of the systems involved at the time the new password   is being negotiated.  L A problem on one of the systems involved at the time could also be an issue.  C You are aware that Microsoft recalled Service Pak 6 for Windows NT 1; because of problems?  They replaced it with Service Pak 6a."  B Since you know the password is renegotiated weekly, is there some A possibility that there is a weekly reboot of a domain controller i$ involved?  Timing can be everything.  C The registry resource leak that required regular reboots of domain >C controllers appears to be fixed in Windows NT 4.0 S.P. 5.  It also >C stopped me from being able to reproduce the bug where a "high" I/O    stress could crash an NT server.  I But I really do not have much experience with NT 4.0 SP 6a to know if it  1 has any "features" that require a regular reboot.p    C When I was managing Pathworks 6.X servers, I put them in their own wH domain, and set up that domain to trust the NT domain.  This allows the G Pathworks servers to continue to the NT domain accounts, but insulates eE you a quite a bit from some of the Windows NT specific compatability aD problems.  Especially when some service PAK makes an unexpected and G undocumented change to the communication between domain controllers in l the same domain.  F Occasionally if you reboot the Windows NT 4.x domain controllers they H will lose trusts with other domains.  But the trusts can be more easily  reestablished.  H Unfortunately changing from being a BDC in a domain to being a resource A domain will probably required updating all Pathworks ACLs on the i7 Pathworks server to explicitly reference the NT domain.   B Because of the trust, you can still manage the permissions on the H Pathworks shares from the NT domain, and in fact continue to do all the  other operations as before.a  F > This server is a production system that should work 24X365 or almostF > so. With Pathworks server V5 such problem could be solved on the runH > by changing the role from BDC to Standalone and back. PWRK V6 does not? > support Standalone role, i.e. only reconfiguration helps. AndlF > reconfiguring Pathworks alias requires system reboot. Guess what ourC > management says to us when we ask for permission to stop PWRK and- > reboot the machine...     B The only time that I have had to reboot an OpenVMS system running E Pathworks is when I needed to have AUTOGEN set new system parameters.e  B If your sysgen parameters are properly set, no reboot is required.  F A restart of Pathworks after changing the alias or domain member type F should not require a system reboot.  I never did a reboot under those J conditions, and I do not recall every seeing anything that mentioned that.  C Selecting the option to change the size of certain server capacity  C settings can result in Pathworks modifying MODPARAMS.DAT, and that rI requires an AUTOGEN and REBOOT cycle for those to take effect.  But that rE is a totally independent operation from changing the server alias or u membership role.     -Johna Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq Personal Opinion Onlym   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 01:14:27 -0800, From: sanface@sanface.com (SANFACE Software) Subject: PLUG: txt2pdf 5.5< Message-ID: <18712ccd.0201160114.6ac5b5c@posting.google.com>  / We would like to announce txt2pdf 5.5 version. .# http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.htmlrE txt2pdf is shareware; it is a very flexible and powerful PERL5 script B that converts text files to PDF format files, so you can use it inE every operating systems supported by PERL5, including MPE/iX, OpenVMStC and EPOC. If you prefer we also distribute executables for Windows, F Linux, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, and FreeBSD. Inside the Windows version is Visual txt2pdf, a VB GUI.J   What's new in this version  E New rules inside txt2pdf.cfg. Now you can simply put the right string(C inside wrong frase. E.g. with paper you can use "A4", "a4" but alsoa "A4 " or "A4WhatYouWant".a
 FAQ upgrade. ,   Test txt2pdf 5.5!r6 You can find it at http://www.sanface.com/txt2pdf.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:20:32 -0600r, From: "Tony Scandora" <scandora@cmt.anl.gov> Subject: Pro mergerl+ Message-ID: <a24cpl$d1b$1@milo.mcs.anl.gov>   E I've felt pretty lonely in seeing the merit of two strong engineeringnK companies uniting their efforts to move from their own server architectures8J to Itanium, along with other benefits of the merger that the Hewletts, theC Packards, Wall Street, the Gartner Group, and a bunch of nay-sayingv customers have not seen.  # ZD just published this in a letter:u  I "Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorina daredF not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computerJ operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) & VMS (Digital( Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq."  
 Full text:  K http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2838760,00.html,  1 Tony Scandora, Argonne National Lab, 630-252-7541  scandora@cmt.anl.gov   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:57:05 -07007+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>i Subject: Re: Pro merger6' Message-ID: <3C45BEF1.3050208@mmaz.com>o   Tony Scandora wrote:  $ >ZD just published this in a letter: >uJ >"Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorina dareG >not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computereK >operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) & VMS (Digitall) >Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq."P >lThis logic is flawed because if HP where buying Compaq for VMS and Tandem, they should have been able to predict the damage and mistrust that the merger announcements would create as well as Compaq's tanking of Alpha; For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to come out of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS and it's future in order to protect the interests of what they are purchasing...   I cannot recall 'word one' from HP since this merger announcement that would indicate any loyalty, dedication or commitment to the old Digital base or in particular, the VMS base.  Hell, this is seems impossible to get from Compaq and they own it!  o     Barrye   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:18:12 +0000s- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>iH Subject: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string1 Message-ID: <3C455364.8239C18B@BlueBubble.UK.Com>a   Gentle colleagues,  ? I seem to have come up against what I consider a bug in  DEFINE B which appears to be incapable of defining a logical name where the, equivalence string includes null characters.  F VMS 7.1, VMS 7.2-1 (haven't tried 7.3 yet) exhibit the same behaviour.   The following commands:o  
 $ Set NoOn
 $ Null=" "
 $ Null[0,8]=0: $ Define XXX "''Null'" $ Show Log XXX $ Define XXX "--> ''Null' <--" $ Show Log XXX   give the following output:  
 $ Set NoOn
 $ Null=" "
 $ Null[0,8]=0m $ Define XXX "( %SYSTEM-F-IVLOGNAM, invalid logical name $ Show Log XXX3 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name XXX  $ Define XXX "-->p $ Show Log XXX%    "XXX" = "--> " (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)-  ; I consider this a bug.  Certainly there's no mention in thea> HELP text for DEFINE that the equivalence string is restricted in any way.3  7 What worries me is the "C-sick" aspect of the thing :-(    Comments ?  Hoff ?  	 Roy Omondn Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:52:21 +0100Z9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>fL Subject: Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string' Message-ID: <3C455B65.3539DB08@aaa.com>   = To better understand what you are trying to do, why would you 9 like to have null characters in the equivalence string ??m   Jan-Erik Sderholm.d   Roy Omond wrote: >  > Gentle colleagues, > A > I seem to have come up against what I consider a bug in  DEFINEoD > which appears to be incapable of defining a logical name where the. > equivalence string includes null characters. >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:01:49 -0000-7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com>sL Subject: RE: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence stringH Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015290DE@reaes2.sema.co.uk>  > Ah, this looks like slightly different manifestation of an old> problem that I noticed many years ago back in the 80's where I> used to work. I reported it to Digital, but never got a fix. I6 found a workaround to my problem, and forgot about it.  ; My problem is that DCL fails to distinguish between a null r< string, and a string of nulls (i.e. between a string with no< characters in it, and string with only ascii-zero characters in it).h  $ Here is an example if it in action..   $ nul:=r $ nul[0,8]=06 $ nulstring = nul+nul+nul+nul+nul+nul+nul+nul+nul+nul  $  $ sho sym nulstring    NULSTRING = ".........."& $ write sys$output f$length(nulstring) 103 $ if nulstring .eqs "" then write sys$output "yes" v yes   3 What this means in the real world, is that wheneverh3 you are writing any DCL, and you want to check if ad4 symbol truly contains nothing, you must always ask..   IF F$LENGTH(SYMBOL) .EQ. 0 . and *never* rely onp   IF SYMBOL .EQS. ""  - . as the 2nd method could give a false 'yes'    3 This looks like somebody's brain fell out when theya3 were writing this bit of VMS. Maybe they employed a 5 fresh out of college code-bunny who only learned unixo/ and C, to write this bit - that's my suspicion.i  4 Amazing that it's never been fixed in all this time.  1 BTW - Thanks for a rare bit of technical input tol0 this group in among the endless pile of commerce- and political waffle and completely off-topic:3 bit-stuffing  (I believe the plot from 'Goldfinger' 3 was stolen from Milton's Paradise Lost - so there!)M   - John( John Powers ( insert sig-file here etc.) -----Original Message-----4 From: Roy Omond [mailto:Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com] Sent: 16 January 2002 10:18  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComgH Subject: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string     Gentle colleagues,  ? I seem to have come up against what I consider a bug in  DEFINEwB which appears to be incapable of defining a logical name where the, equivalence string includes null characters.  F VMS 7.1, VMS 7.2-1 (haven't tried 7.3 yet) exhibit the same behaviour.   The following commands:p  
 $ Set NoOn
 $ Null=" "
 $ Null[0,8]=0  $ Define XXX "''Null'" $ Show Log XXX $ Define XXX "--> ''Null' <--" $ Show Log XXX   give the following output:  
 $ Set NoOn
 $ Null=" "
 $ Null[0,8]=0- $ Define XXX "( %SYSTEM-F-IVLOGNAM, invalid logical name $ Show Log XXX3 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name XXXa $ Define XXX "-->g $ Show Log XXX%    "XXX" = "--> " (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)a  ; I consider this a bug.  Certainly there's no mention in the > HELP text for DEFINE that the equivalence string is restricted in any way.c  7 What worries me is the "C-sick" aspect of the thing :-(/   Comments ?  Hoff ?  	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.    K ___________________________________________________________________________sB This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of s SchlumbergerSema. M If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thisiI email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or d- copying of this email is strictly prohibited.   z If you have received this email in error please notify the SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.K ___________________________________________________________________________    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:07:08 +0000j- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>SL Subject: Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string0 Message-ID: <3C456CEB.686EE58@BlueBubble.UK.Com>   Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:t  ? > To better understand what you are trying to do, why would your; > like to have null characters in the equivalence string ??a   It's not relevant.  A I am trying to do something valid, documented, and useful (in the = context of the particular problem I am currently working on).   E That logical names *can* have equivalence strings with embedded nullseD is clearly demonstrated by the LMF$License_Table logical names (and,5 no, I am *not* hacking up something in that area :-).a  	 Roy Omonde Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 13:16:15 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)-L Subject: Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string: Message-ID: <a23uev$365$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  1 In message <3C455364.8239C18B@BlueBubble.UK.Com>,o)   Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>4@ >I seem to have come up against what I consider a bug in  DEFINEC >which appears to be incapable of defining a logical name where theE- >equivalence string includes null characters.w >oG >VMS 7.1, VMS 7.2-1 (haven't tried 7.3 yet) exhibit the same behaviour.s >v >The following commands: >c >$ Set NoOn  >$ Null=" ", >$ Null[0,8]=0 >$ Define XXX "''Null'"4 >$ Show Log XXX  >$ Define XXX "--> ''Null' <--"y >$ Show Log XXXa  G The bug is in the DCL substitution operator ('), try it with ampersand:e     $ null = " "   $ null[0,8] = 0o   $ define XXX &null   $ show logical XXX"   $ null2 = "--> " + null + " <--"   $ define XXX &null2e   $ show logical XXX        < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:0L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:58:09 +0000 - From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>rL Subject: Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string1 Message-ID: <3C4586F1.56B88B23@BlueBubble.UK.Com>c   David Jones wrote:   > [ ... snip ...]h >rI > The bug is in the DCL substitution operator ('), try it with ampersand:i >t >   $ null = " " >   $ null[0,8] = 0e >   $ define XXX &null >   $ show logical XXX$ >   $ null2 = "--> " + null + " <--" >   $ define XXX &null2s >   $ show logical XXX  H Thanks.  That's a workaround that works for me and that I can live with.  L (btw:  I still think it's a bug - I really wonder *how* that's crept in, and givenuN that it's probably been there for a very long time, it's likely not due to the7 null-terminated-string-syndrome common "elsewhere" ...)a  	 Roy Omondb Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:08:36 -0000n* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>L Subject: Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string, Message-ID: <a241h2$2tie@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  : "Roy Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote in message+ news:3C455364.8239C18B@BlueBubble.UK.Com...c  A > I seem to have come up against what I consider a bug in  DEFINEaD > which appears to be incapable of defining a logical name where the. > equivalence string includes null characters.  F Seems to be a problem in interpolating nulls. It seems to work fine if you use ampersand substitution.a   $ null = "0" $ null[0,8] = 0.
 $ def a &nullp
 $ sh log a     "A" = "." (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:00:18 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> L Subject: Re: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string' Message-ID: <3C459582.7070700@mmaz.com>a   Roy Omond wrote:   >  >$ Set NoOn7 >$ Null=" "  >$ Null[0,8]=0 >$ Define XXX "''Null'"e >$ Show Log XXXo >$ Define XXX "--> ''Null' <--"a >$ Show Log XXXa >  The results are also the same with 5.5-2 but I suspect the problem revolves around the fact that you are using the null character rather than any other embedded ASCII character.  A quick replacement of ASCII 0 (null) with ASCII 7 (bell) worked fine...  s   I do not remember the details of the internal representation of logical names within VMS but I suspect that null is being considered a terminator which is why null fails but others work just fone...   Barry      --    @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028b   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:40:28 +0100m= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>r1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof ) Message-ID: <3C459EEC.C2BCBAA6@gtech.com>l   Bob Ceculski wrote:eA > Purveyor/TCPware can do the following ... Can any other VMS weba	 > server?r >  > Engineered for OpenVMSE > Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS has been designed to take advantage of"? > the OpenVMS architecture. Not only is Purveyor the industry'sk@ > highest-performance Web server for OpenVMS, but Purveyor fullyE > supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system forcG > incredible system throughput. Additionally, when coupled with ProcessmF > Software's TCPware, the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,C > Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingoF > transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This meansB > that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,D > either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyF > other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha	 > system!i   ????  / I thougth Purveyor was a discontinued product !P  C Yoy are not going to convince many of the merit of VMS by referring  to a discintinued product.   Arne  E PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multipled8     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:45:50 -08003% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>e* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Services echo service?) Message-ID: <3C452FAE.DC2F5D48@rdrop.com>l   Dale King wrote: > G > I can't see that any service will be guaranteed to be pingable on any N > implementation.  The telnet port 23 is probably a good one to use for Compaq+ > TCPIP, seeing as we don't have SSH yet ;)   D Probably just as well, too.  The mailing list for the local PortlandE Linux User's Group is full of talk about members being 'rooted' (yes, D it's as bad as it sounds, security-wise) via a buffer overrun attackA against SSH v 1.0.  Somewhat ironic that the very service that isaG supposed to secure a box against unauthorized access turns out to granteG it to any script kiddie who comes knocking, without even having to takec4 the trouble to sniff out accounts & passwords first.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:01:00 +0000 (UTC)s9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>r+ Subject: Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?a- Message-ID: <a2483s$hjm$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>t  ' Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:r  9 : : : "Distribution" is at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/emacsp  % Most recent is now emacs207_4.bck.gz.-  ) Now I get so far as the "Welcome"-window.:   Run it with something like mcr []temacs_d.exe -l loadup' mcr []temacs_d.exe -map temacs.dump -nw2 (or debugger equivalents)i  F Some .elc-files has been renamed to .elg due to patching of .el-files., Making seems to require .elc-files in place.+ Doing mmk/ign=war install is also required.R  M : The -map version quits because of a top-level problem you also see with -l.v  7 There is a lot in the .el-files that needs to be fixed. E Paths seems to be a problem? Should we have Unix- or VMS-style paths?n8 And I know little elisp, my largest .emacs is 7 lines...  
 -Roar Throns    (Still talking to himself)   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:34:00 +0000 (UTC)y9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> + Subject: Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?4- Message-ID: <a24a1o$inq$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>5  , Douglas B Rupp <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> wrote:  F : Porting a newer version has been on my list for a long time, but itsD : alot of work. However I certainly would be willing to help do such	 : a port.l    I have got it partially running. Will you join the effort?t  E : We have most all of the Gnu tools ported to VMS, to the extent thatnL : Gcc 3.1 can be completely built and bootstrapped using standard Unix tools : on VMS 7.x   Which tools are needed for GCC?eF Is recent GCC really working on VMS, considering the general status ofC non-Intel stuff and GCC, and that the .com-files are 2-3 years old?r  G : With the upcoming port of VMS to IA64 we hope to continue to grow ourdC : business on VMS.  This will probably require porting Emacs, so weo" : would hate to see it eliminated.  8 The /standard=vaxc may have to be finally dropped, then.   Regards, Roar Throns   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:31:28 -05004* From: John Reagan <john.reagan@compaq.com>+ Subject: Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?a) Message-ID: <3C45B8F0.6090605@compaq.com>    Roar Throns wrote:1  . > Douglas B Rupp <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> wrote: > H > : Porting a newer version has been on my list for a long time, but itsF > : alot of work. However I certainly would be willing to help do such > : a port.  > " > I have got it partially running. > Will you join the effort?i > G > : We have most all of the Gnu tools ported to VMS, to the extent thatsN > : Gcc 3.1 can be completely built and bootstrapped using standard Unix tools > : on VMS 7.x >   G Everybody meet over at http://gnv.sourceforge.net and lets combine our a efforts.     -- u John ReaganaB Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader (and former GNV developer)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:15:34 -0800m# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>m+ Subject: RE: vms emacs: last call? the end?c9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIGEAPDPAA.tom@kednos.com>f  7 Couldn't ftp to the site, tried both from Tru64 and VMSf  & thor/tom 264 > ftp gnv.sourceforge.net  ftp: connect: Connection refused   FREJA> ftp gnv.sourceforge.net0 %TCPIP-E-FTP_NETERR, I/O error on network device4 -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected  E I use IE on W2K as a browser and downloading anything related to UnixaG or VMS is often a nuisance.  Is the TCPIP error message correct for theuB equivalent Connection refused?  If so, it is certainly misleading.   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: John Reagan [mailto:john.reagan@compaq.com]m+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 9:31 AMg > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como- > Subject: Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?t >  >i > Roar Thron=E6s wrote:u >c0 > > Douglas B Rupp <rupp@nospam_gnat.com> wrote: > >)J > > : Porting a newer version has been on my list for a long time, but itsH > > : alot of work. However I certainly would be willing to help do such
 > > : a port.  > > $ > > I have got it partially running. > > Will you join the effort?" > >uI > > : We have most all of the Gnu tools ported to VMS, to the extent thatw< > > : Gcc 3.1 can be completely built and bootstrapped using > standard Unix tools  > > : on VMS 7.x > >= >-H > Everybody meet over at http://gnv.sourceforge.net and lets combine our
 > efforts. >  >P > --
 > John Reagan D > Compaq Pascal/{A|I}MACRO Project Leader (and former GNV developer) >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:20:38 -0500l2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>< Subject: Re: When do the HP Shareholders vote on the merger?. Message-ID: <3C45C476.F2E89BD3@mindspring.com>   Atlant Schmidt wrote:c  > > Okay, I've read lots and lots of stories about the HP/Compaq > "merger".m > 9 > But somewhere along the way, I missed a crictical fact:  > @ >     *WHEN* do the HP shareholders actually vote on the merger? >     What date?    (Replying to my own question...)  B I just spoke to a gent from HP's Investor Relations. There *ISN'T*B a date certain set yet. He stated that they were still waiting forB replies from the SEC and other organizations, but might be able to& call a vote as early as "early March".  @ He stated that shareholders in HP would receive at least 30 days notice by mail before the vote.:   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 00:44:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being- Message-ID: <87lmezpnr1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  ) "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@mail.com> writes:I   > Mark Crispin wrote:d  A > > Then the developers of VMS built their filesystem, and it waslF > > ASCII, and they had full ASCII terminals.  But they had aggressiveC > > contempt for anything done by anyone else, and they adopted thegF > > 1960s operating system behavior of case-independence for their own& > > and claimed that it was a feature.  C > So, they did not start with RSX-11 as there base which used RAD50u > and thus only upper case?   H Unix was the originator, and a major reason was to eliminate code. DittoF theit not translating the bare LF from the KSR37s to a CR or CRLF like the world used.   D Remember, it was written over a week end, and had to fit on a PDP-7.     -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:23:53 +0000-- From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com>e2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being1 Message-ID: <3C4562C9.C888EA5B@BlueBubble.UK.Com>n   Chris Doran wrote:  G > Time passed and the KDF9 became extinct and was replaced by a greaterb' > beast called 1906A. [...big snip ...]t   Forsooth !  KDF9 ?  1906A ?t  D Ha !  I remember both with much fondness (thou too must have been at" Leeds University early/mid 1970s).  	 Roy Omondo Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:13:54 GMTc From: berdpee@ami.com.au2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being. Message-ID: <3c456012.3051585@news.ami.com.au>  = Pardon my asking, but I thought this was a PDP-10 News Group.f  E Why don't you VMS VAX PDP-11 boffins form your own flamin News group.a  E On 16 Jan 2002 00:44:50 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>a wrote:  * >"C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@mail.com> writes: >" >> Mark Crispin wrote: >eB >> > Then the developers of VMS built their filesystem, and it wasG >> > ASCII, and they had full ASCII terminals.  But they had aggressivelD >> > contempt for anything done by anyone else, and they adopted theG >> > 1960s operating system behavior of case-independence for their owni' >> > and claimed that it was a feature." > D >> So, they did not start with RSX-11 as there base which used RAD50 >> and thus only upper case? >EI >Unix was the originator, and a major reason was to eliminate code. DittosG >theit not translating the bare LF from the KSR37s to a CR or CRLF like  >the world used. >tE >Remember, it was written over a week end, and had to fit on a PDP-7._ >_ >_ >-- = >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,h8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076l/ >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.uG >EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.    aeolus   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 16 Jan 02 09:33:36 GMTn From: jmfbahciv@aol.coml2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being+ Message-ID: <a23ovo$lhk$1@bob.news.rcn.net>p  = In article <948f0720.0201151624.2c2f9b6a@posting.google.com>,_4    chris_doran@postmaster.co.uk (Chris Doran) wrote:8 >Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in message K news:<Pine.NXT.4.50.0201132149550.8412-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.ER DU>... <snip>  > <GRIN>  I enjoyed that very much.  Are you working on the next chapter?  E >(*Believe it or not, I really did accidentally hit the caps lock keye >while typing that phrase!)   < There are no accidents when typing text.  Your finger simply knew better.  :-)    /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.i   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 16 Jan 02 09:36:00 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being+ Message-ID: <a23p48$lhk$2@bob.news.rcn.net>e  H In article <3c456012.3051585@news.ami.com.au>, berdpee@ami.com.au wrote:> >Pardon my asking, but I thought this was a PDP-10 News Group. >-F >Why don't you VMS VAX PDP-11 boffins form your own flamin News group. <pins>  <--Note the hint!!!d  ; It was time to have another round of discussions about thislB aspect of computing.  You should have read it closely and learned.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:52:34 +0000v% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>   Subject: Re: x29 AND DTE ADDRESS' Message-ID: <3C4585A2.FFD3BCAF@iee.org>    pat saunders wrote:n >  > HI,nF >   Does anyone know how to configure the x25/x29 DTE address of a vaxB > using DECNET/OSI. I need to configure it again to be able to SET > HOST/X29 /DTE<ADDRESS> ETC > thanks in advanceN > pat     @PSI$CONFIGURE is what you want.! The information you feed to it is & mostly the details of the X.25 network to which you are connected.d   Antoniou   -- "   ---------------o- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 09:19:54 -0800. From: David Gay <dgay@lagaffe.cs.berkeley.edu>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of comp 5 Message-ID: <s718zayqklh.fsf@lagaffe.cs.berkeley.edu>s  1 Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.delete.ch> writes: K > Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant,-  C That one makes more sense if you've ever seen the white, egg-shapedm eggplants...   -- d	 David Gay. dgay@acm.org   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:08:45 GMT ) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>KO Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The demu' Message-ID: <3C45DDF2.9079A005@ev1.net>r   Tim Shoppa wrote:l >  > Paul Guertin wrote:eG > > I am that someone, and I what I said was: "If your interface uses anH > > meta key to put the mouse in some special mode, then put that key onF > > the mouse itself, not on an unrelated peripheral." Don't you agree* > > that doing so would be more intuitive? > >wE > > Do you think that putting the command key on the mouse would makey* > > the interface more intuitive, or less? > @ > Up to a point, more.  But I've dealt with mice with as many asB > seven buttons (X-Windows) and I think that after a certain pointB > (which is probably 2 or 3) it's silly to add more mouse buttons.> > The seven-button mice I used had a button layout on top thatB > was entirely confusing - they weren't just numbered 1 through 7,@ > they tried to resolve the homogeneity by making them different= > sizes and shapes.  The software, of course, simply referreda$ > to the buttons as 1 through 7 :-(. > > Tim, are you sure that this was *not* a "chording keyboard"???9 (;-)) Actually, I think that chording keyboards should be = available for stroke victims who can only type with one hand.f> Of course, one hand on the mouse and the other on the chording> keyboard might be more like what Doug Englebart had in mind...   -- -? +-------------------------------------------------------------+0? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |P? +-------------------------------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:58:55 GMTN) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>nK Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The dem ' Message-ID: <3C45E9B4.98522FE5@ev1.net>m   Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote: > - >      [snip...]      [snip...]     [snip...]e > H > Until Apple let's people do things like this, giving them more freedomG > in their hardware purchases, they will always be losing market share.t > H > I would already own a Mac if they would let me buy one.  It's not justI > price, I simply cannot get what I want from them, even though they makel > exactly what I'm looking for.. > A I feel sure that the main reason that Apple will *not* sell partscB of a system...is that the overhead would be so great, their entire? price stucture would be disrupted. They would be unable to selle) their systems for the price they do now. =  A For me, I got a G4 and I bought a low-priced (about $60) Adaptec e> SCSI controller to handle the external SCSI peripherals that IA already owned. I also bought a Sony monitor instead of the Apple.    -- n? +-------------------------------------------------------------+e? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |v? +-------------------------------------------------------------+i   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 08:22:03 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories3 Message-ID: <R8nvxA7wAGR2@eisner.encompasserve.org>P  n In article <343f30ae.0201151023.3c983681@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes: > Hello, > 4 > Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories? >   E    Because your software is out of date.  It's been over decade sincesD    the ability to go to 16 levels was added via rooted logical names4    and a couple years since no-limit ODS-5 came out.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.030 ************************t !P  C Yoy are not going to convince many of th@3D    A3D    B3D    C3D    D3D    E3D    F3D    G3D    H3D    I3D    J3D    K3D    L3D    M3D    N3D    O3D    P3D    Q3D    R3D    S3D    T3D    U3D    V3D    W3D    X3D    Y3D    Z3D    [3D    \3D    ]3D    ^3D    _3D    `3D    a3D    b3D    c3D    d3D    e3D    f3D    g3D    h3D    i3D    j3D    k3D    l3D    m3D    n3D    o3D    p3D    q3D    r3D    s3D    t3D    u3D    v3D    w3D    x3D    y3D    z3D    {3D    |3D    }3D    ~3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    3D    