0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 31      Contents: 2001 financials  Re: 2001 financials  RE: 2001 financials  Re: Alpha Itanium Advertisment Re: Alpha Itanium Advertisment Re: Alpha Itanium Advertisment, Re: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop), Re: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop), Re: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop)> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the3 Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal " Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business Compaq financials 4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report DFWCUG Next Meeting, Jan 22nd A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? P Re: Evidence of external help required for a VMS reboot - was: Re: 17  years and Re: FTP Success/Failure? Re: FTP Success/Failure? Re: FTP Success/Failure? Re: FTP Success/Failure? Re: FTP Success/Failure?; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! & Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monster  Re: Loading the ship with cheese' Managing multiple nodes at one terminal + RE: Managing multiple nodes at one terminal + RE: Managing multiple nodes at one terminal  Re: Marx  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.  Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.+ Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS? + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?  RE: Pro merger Re: Pro merger Re: Pro merger Re: Pro merger Re: Pro merger Re: Pro mergerC RE: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string ( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof' PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-( + RE: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-( + Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-( + Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-( + Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(  raid vs volume shadowing Re: raid vs volume shadowing Re: raid vs volume shadowing Re: raid vs volume shadowing Re: SCSI to IDE bridges  Re: Selling VMS licenses; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products . System not see tape drives on a new controller! Re: TCP/IP Services echo service? + Re: TCPIP: logging of all incoming requests + Re: TCPIP: logging of all incoming requests ( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public( Re: VMS Marketing For the General Public" What has happened to HELP SPECIFY?& Re: What has happened to HELP SPECIFY?N Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of  compaq )9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:49:47 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>  Subject: 2001 financials5 Message-ID: <3C45F57B.D01A85AD@swissonline.delete.ch>   B Well, VMS at least got a mention in the 4th Q financials for 2001.  J "The Business Critical Solutions Group provides NonStop=99 Himalaya=99 fa= ult H tolerant and high performance AlphaServer=99 systems with Tru64=99 UNIX,E OpenVMS=99 and Linux operating systems for solutions that deliver the H highest levels of availability, performance, scale and manageability forF the telecommunications, financial services, high performance technical7 computing and other business critical market segments."    =2E..and ...  G "Compaq saw significant sequential increases in its high end businesses B after the events of September 11 as customers resumed implementingG infrastructure projects, increased their security and disaster recovery @ capabilities, and with the implementation of several large scaleA supercomputer installations. Compaq maintained its market leading F position in the fault tolerant server market in 2001 according to IDC.F Compaq believes its offerings in high end servers and storage are wellH positioned as customers add capacity and upgrade their business criticalE infrastructures should increasing customer buying patterns continue."     F Return on investment fro Enterprise was about 1.55% for the year which1 is not great, but was better than Access at -3.7%   D It is worth noting that Capellas said good things about the high-endI servers so perhaps this is the start of increased emphasis at that end. =    We can hope.     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:01:23 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: 2001 financials, Message-ID: <3C46063C.10079E02@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote: > D > Well, VMS at least got a mention in the 4th Q financials for 2001.  K In the printed documents or in spoken commentary ? I didn't hear VMS in the  spoken documentary.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:40:39 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: 2001 financialsT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE839@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  H >>> In the printed documents or in spoken commentary ? I didn't hear VMS in the spoken documentary.<<<   H http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/attachments/4Q01FinancialDiscussion.pd f    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei@videotron.ca] Sent: January 16, 2002 6:01 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: 2001 financials     John McLean wrote: >=20D > Well, VMS at least got a mention in the 4th Q financials for 2001.  G In the printed documents or in spoken commentary ? I didn't hear VMS in  the  spoken documentary.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 02:20:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>' Subject: Re: Alpha Itanium Advertisment - Message-ID: <87ita2nomu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  F > And when the port of NSK to IA64 was killed about three months afterN > Compaq's acquisition of Digital was consummated. Fortunately for all partiesL > concerned, the NSK port was pretty well along, and Intel designed hardware  > lockstepping support into IPF.  K I wonder what untel think of the cost of the design and verification of the 4 LS stuff? And if it did have 'issues', then "Tough"!   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:33:28 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>' Subject: Re: Alpha Itanium Advertisment > Message-ID: <Ycn18.77819$Sj1.31391329@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:87ita2nomu.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 8 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: > H > > And when the port of NSK to IA64 was killed about three months afterH > > Compaq's acquisition of Digital was consummated. Fortunately for all parties E > > concerned, the NSK port was pretty well along, and Intel designed  hardware" > > lockstepping support into IPF. > I > I wonder what untel think of the cost of the design and verification of  the 6 > LS stuff? And if it did have 'issues', then "Tough"!  F Guess it all depends on how far along in the process they were. In anyC event, designing lockstepping into the architecture gave Intel some K flexibility... and perhaps a bit of leverage in the whole IPF Consolidation  effort.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:54:12 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: Alpha Itanium Advertisment = Message-ID: <EVr18.40109$JF.409654@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote >  > "Paul Repacholi" wrote >  >> "Terry C. Shannon" writes: B >>> And when the port of NSK to IA64 was killed about three months: >>> after Compaq's acquisition of Digital was consummated.G >>> Fortunately for all parties concerned, the NSK port was pretty well E >>> along, and Intel designed hardware lockstepping support into IPF.   D Houston forced us to substitute an Alpha chip just to make the AlphaI marketing story prettier; this was not seen by us as something fortunate. A All our Merced work was carefully destroyed, due to concerns from F ongoing unrelated legal tussles between Compaq and Intel at that time.@ When Houston recently said, go back to IPF, we had no prior work available to re-use.     >>G >> I wonder what untel think of the cost of the design and verification > >> of the LS stuff? And if it did have 'issues', then "Tough"! > D > Guess it all depends on how far along in the process they were. InD > any event, designing lockstepping into the architecture gave IntelD > some flexibility... and perhaps a bit of leverage in the whole IPF > Consolidation effort.   B Prior to Intel agreeing to add lockstep support circuits to Merced? for Tandem, Intel had already planned that every circuit inside 8 Merced was to be fully deterministic, as part of Intel's? engineering standards to allow for fast total checking of chips B in their high-volume fab plants.  I.e. Intel's way of sorting good> chips from bad is to run them all in lock stepped mode against2 a known-good chip, before packaging the good ones.; The external signals added just for Tandem were very minor.   .    -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Compaq etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:01:10 -0500   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com5 Subject: Re: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop) 4 Message-ID: <C2256B43.006D916C.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  + As coded, you cannot call this recursively:   - $ @for_next 1 3 "@for_next 1 2 ""show time"""   7  This is FOR_NEXT.COM version x0.0-0 dated 15-jan-2002.     7  This is FOR_NEXT.COM version x0.0-0 dated 15-jan-2002.      16-JAN-2002 14:55:34   16-JAN-2002 14:55:34= %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling   \I\        / Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch on 01/16/2002 01:37:48 PM   ' Please respond to Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc: 2 Subject:  And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop)        O Congrats to all of you who participated. Of course the trick was to give to the % FOR symbol a value containing a CALL.   P Here is my final version (limited to 15 loops), which actually does more or lessK the same as all your solutions (and which is also kind to FORtran users :-)      $! FOR_NEXT.COM  $ on warning then exit $ say = "write sys$output" $ say ""? $ say " This is FOR_NEXT.COM version x0.0-0 dated 15-jan-2002."  $ say "" $START: < $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Start value for loop (?=help)" $ if p1 .eqs. "" then exit  $ if p1 .eqs. "?" then goto HELP $ dummy := 'p1' : $ if f$type(dummy) .eqs. "STRING" then goto NUMERIC_PLEASE3 $ if p2 .eqs. "" then inq p2 "End value for loop  "  $ if p2 .eqs. "" then exit $ dummy := 'p2' : $ if f$type(dummy) .eqs. "STRING" then goto NUMERIC_PLEASE. $ if ('p2'-'p1') .ge. 15 then goto NO_WAY_JOSE. $ if 'p2' .lt. 'p1' then goto NO_TIME_TO_WASTE9 $ if p3 .eqs. "" then inq p3 "DCL command to loop [none]" : $ if p3 .eqs. "" then p3 = "write sys$output i,"" (NOP)""" $ gosub INIT $LOOP: $ 'for i = 'p1 to 'p2  $    'p3	 $ 'next i  $ gosub TINI $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $INIT: $ save_FOR_symbol  = "" 4 $ if f$type(for) .nes. "" then save_FOR_symbol = for> $ for == "call FOR_PROCESSING"                  !global symbolP $ next = "gosub NEXT_PROCESSING !"              !local symbol with comment char. $ returnP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $TINI: $ dele_/symb/glob i  $ dele_/symb/glob f_max  $ if save_FOR_symbol  .nes. "" $ then $    for  == save_FOR_symbol $ else $    dele_/symb/glob for $ endif  $ returnP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $FOR_PROCESSING: $ subroutine $ for   == "!" $ i     == p3           !"p1"  $ f_max == p5           !"p2"  $ exit $ endsubroutine P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NEXT_PROCESSING:  $ i == i + 1G $ if 'i' .gt. 'f_max' then return       !will go to next line thus exit C $ goto LOOP                           !should be unique, of course. P $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 $NO_WAY_JOSE: B $ say "%FOR_NEXT-F-GOSUBMAX, This version is limited to 15 loops." $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NO_TIME_TO_WASTE:O $ say "%FOR_NEXT-F-RUKIDDIN, May I suggest that you choose P2 greater than P1?"  $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $NUMERIC_PLEASE:5 $ say "%FOR_NEXT-F-NUMEREQ, Value should be numeric."  $ exitP $!------------------------------------------------------------------------------ $HELP: $ type/page sys$input  $DECK N    Welcome to the FOR_NEXT DCL procedure version x0.0-0 rev 0 build 935709145.  H  This procedure provides a demo to help in the implementation of the newM  FOR NEXT DCL instructions created by a somewhat paranoid former DEC engineer <  who prefers to remain anonymous like his hero R. M. SUPNIK.  M  The FOR_NEXT.COM procedure asks for starting and ending values in parameters O  P1 and P2 to perform a loop. The loop may execute a DCL command if provided as K  parameter P3. In that case, the DCL command should be enclosed with double N  quotes. If no command is given, it will display the loop index value followed  by the string (NOP).   %  This version is limited to 15 loops.   	  Example:     $ @for_next 3 8 "sh time"    16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06     16-JAN-2002 10:56:06       $ @for_next 3 8  DCL command to loop [none]:  3 (NOP)  4 (NOP)  5 (NOP)  6 (NOP)  7 (NOP)  8 (NOP)     $EOD	 $ p1 = ""  $ goto START   That's all folks. + Thank you for (i = 1 to 42) DCLing with us.    D.  )now back to my SCSI cluster :-(   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:18:25 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> 5 Subject: Re: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop) . Message-ID: <a24n22$1fv$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  9 "Didier Morandi" <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote in message   news:3C45C87C.CB5CF5A9@gmx.ch...J > Congrats to all of you who participated. Of course the trick was to give to the' > FOR symbol a value containing a CALL.  > & Bah! And I'd just finished my version.  A This version can go up to the DCL integer limit. Supports several = consecutive instances of FOR...NEXT. Cannot be nested (yet)!.   K This depends on several hacks. One big problem is it won't let me GOTO to a L label outwith a subroutine. So FOR is "__DCLFOR0: CALL DCLFOR <parameters>". And next is C "GOTO __DCLFOR0 !". Which therefore becomes another CALL to the FOR 
 routine... Scary!  K It also requires a _slight_ mod to the original program because IMAX is not  a E global variable. I also added in a statement to print the value of I. H Oh, and no parameter parsing for validity (that wasn't specified, but is left as  an exercise for the reader ;).  - The amazing thing, is that it works at all...   ' I might work on STEP n andd STEP -n ;-)   	 -Malcolm.   4 $ if p1 .eqs. "" then inq p1 "Enter number of loops" $ gosub INIT $ imax = p1n $LOOP: $ 'for' i = 1 to 'imax $    show time $ write sys$output i
 $ 'next' i $! $ 'for' i = 4 to 6 $  write sys$output ">>>> ''i'"e
 $ 'next' i $ exit $! $INIT: $!+ $! I do not claim this code is bug free....( $! $ dclfor_forctx_id ==0G $ for == "__DCLFOR''dclfor_forctx_id': CALL DCLFOR ''dclfor_forctx_id'"R. $ next == "GOTO __DCLFOR''dclfor_forctx_id' !" $ DCLFOR: SUBROUTINE $! sanity check... $ if f$int(p4) .eq. f$int(p6)E $ then $   'p2' == 'p4e $   next == "! (end next loop)"  $   goto enddclfor $ endifi$ $ if f$type(dclfor_val_'p2) .eqs. "" $ then0 $   dclfor_varname_'dclfor_forctx_id' == "''p2'" $   dclfor_val_'p2 == 'p4e $   'p2' == 'p4p% $   if next .eqs. "! (end next loop)"e $   then# $     tmp = f$int(dclfor_forctx_id)q1 $     for == "__DCLFOR''tmp': CALL DCLFOR ''tmp'"t% $     next == "GOTO __DCLFOR''tmp' !"u	 $   endifV $ else ! do the forry bit... $!  increment...' $   dclfor_val_'p2 == dclfor_val_'p2 +1e  $   varname = "DCLFOR_VAL_''p2'" $   'p2' == 'varname $   if 'varname .ge. p6a $   then $!    re-init variables...- $     deleteee /symbol /global dclfor_val_'p2V1 $   dclfor_forctx_id == f$int(dclfor_forctx_id)+1n# $     tmp = f$int(dclfor_forctx_id)h1 $     for == "__DCLFOR''tmp': CALL DCLFOR ''tmp'"i! $     next == "! (end next loop)"t $   else' $     if next .eqs. "! (end next loop)"t
 $     then% $       tmp = f$int(dclfor_forctx_id).3 $       for == "__DCLFOR''tmp': CALL DCLFOR ''tmp'"p' $       next == "GOTO __DCLFOR''tmp' !"o $     endifo	 $   endifV $ endif  $ enddclfor: $ ENDSUBROUTINEO $ RETURN   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:14:23 +0100r, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>5 Subject: Re: And the winner is... (was: the FOR loop) & Message-ID: <3C45FB3F.6FD53D8A@gmx.ch>  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:e > - > As coded, you cannot call this recursively:r > / > $ @for_next 1 3 "@for_next 1 2 ""show time"""t > 9 >  This is FOR_NEXT.COM version x0.0-0 dated 15-jan-2002.  > 9 >  This is FOR_NEXT.COM version x0.0-0 dated 15-jan-2002.  >  >   16-JAN-2002 14:55:34 >   16-JAN-2002 14:55:34? > %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spellinga >  \I\    6 Well, it was not (too) in the contest user's guide :-)   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 18:03:45 -0500- From: Rich Alderson <alderson+news@panix.com> G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for thef. Message-ID: <mddu1tl7vam.fsf@panix3.panix.com>  ; "David Thompson" <david.thompson1@worldnet.att.net> writes:   M > (Several models of) 1403 were the _chain_ (not band) printers that were the F > mainstay of S/360 and S/370 systems for at least a decade; they wereK > originally designed for use with 1401 computers, but those were much less 
 > successful.o  N They were successful enough that IBM provided first an emulator product (addedO hardware) for the 360, and later a simulator (software) product for the 370; at N the University of Chicago, many parts of the accounting system were still 1401M code from the early 1960s until autumn 1982, when my office mate finished here> project of documenting the uncommented Autocoder listings. [1]  N Besides, they were successful in another way:  I first learned to program on aN 1401 with FORTRAN IV.  If not for that, I'd not be where I am today, and you'd- not have the opportunity to read this screed.d  M [1] She had made the mistake, in early autumn 1979, of going to the assistantdO manager of the Financial Systems group and saying, "I don't have enough to do." ; I'm fairly sure she erased that phrase from her vocabulary.H   -- =N Rich Alderson                                          alderson+news@panix.comL   "You get what anybody gets.  You get a lifetime."  --Death, of the Endless   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 13:09:18 -1000/ From: Jim Thomas <thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu> G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for thes2 Message-ID: <wwn0zdnba9.fsf@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>  J >>>>> "David" == David Thompson <david.thompson1@worldnet.att.net> writes:  7  David> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote :o  F  >> What were those big band printers with the motor that opened theirK  >> covers that had the same finish/style as the last batch of card readersC4  >> IBM made ? ( I forgot the number of the device).  E  David> (Several models of) 1403 were the _chain_ (not band) printerstF  David> that were the mainstay of S/360 and S/370 systems for at leastA  David> a decade; they were originally designed for use with 1401u7  David> computers, but those were much less successful.   D The 1401 printers were chain printers, but most of the 360 and laterI printers were trains, i.e., the slugs were not connected together.  Thesei were the 1403N1 printers.t   Jimb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:30:43 +0000s% From: "a.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>o< Subject: Re: comp.sys.dec, FINAL NOTICE of Newsgroup Removal' Message-ID: <3C45E2F3.C493327B@iee.org><   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 3 > By the way, I don't know why, but Croatia is .hr.2  . It's called Hrvatska (barring possible accents and marks etc.). m   Antonioh   --     ---------------.- Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.orgn   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:21:58 GMT-' From: Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net>1+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessi+ Message-ID: <3C45D388.43BC4A71@pacbell.net>   C From what I've heard, Dave Cutler did not "write" VMS or NT. He was.G involved in the early days with some of the VMS design and when he wentdG to MS he was the project lead for NT. NT was supposed to be the VMS foreH PC's, but it did not materialize. IMHO NT 4.0 (I use it daily) is betterH Windoz ###, mainly because Windoz ### are not OS's, per-se. They containF OS components as part of the presentation manager (gui) and that's the heart of their problems.     Rick Nickles wrote:l > E > NT IS VMS in a sense, I don't know where you are coming from.  DaveSG > Cutler wrote both systems, and NT is essentially a version of VMS foreH > PC's.  NT was developed on the Alpha, and the virtual addressing modelH > is just about the same, obviously it doesn't have the same complexity.. >  So, I'm not sure where you are coming from. > G > VMS still has a large installed base - and it is still the choice foryF > mission critical applications, it's just that compaq doesn't push itD > because of Microsoft.   Period.  If VMS were spun off, then they'dA > have the freedom to run Microsoft in the ground.  Yes, it couldb	 > happen.o > j > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote in message news:<$tlYXmlVZp9a@eisner.encompasserve.org>...Y > > In article <3C3F9941.607A6DB7@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes:  > > >dN > > > First, no one using Unix or NT is going to consider VMS a better OS with! > > > case INsensitive filenames.  > >hI > > NT is case preserving, like /PARSE=EXTENDED , so anybody who is happy6C > > with NT in that regard should be happy with VMS in that regard.  > > E > > As for those using Unix, never say never.  Nobody who _likes_ the D > > case-sensitive filenames on Unix would like /PARSE=EXTENDED, butB > > some who are _using_ Unix would prefer VMS.  (Granted, none of@ > > them are the sort to be here in comp.os.vms defending Unix.) > >d* > > > I know there are those cov folks whoN > > > disagree, but I think it would be a BIG plus if at least filenames couldL > > > convert one-to-one. Also, Unix style symbolic links must be supported.L > > > Hard links a-la "set file/entry=xxx.dat yyy.dat" are not sufficient. IK > > > could live without these things, but I know non vms people are always K > > > touting these deficiencies as examples of how old and out of date vmst	 > > > is.o > >eK > > Since Unix predated VMS, "out of date" is hardly a correct description.kL > > NT is newer than VMS, so it would appear that case preserving is the way? > > to be up-to-date.  VMS (on Alpha) got there before Unix :-)e > >uL > > > In fact if I had my way I'd create an OS that was a super set of VMS &L > > > Unix, where DCL & csh & ksh would all work just fine on the underlying
 > > > system.l > >.B > > Fred said that is where they are headed with the DII COE work,D > > including the capability to choose a case-sensitive file system.   --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin @alphase.com 
 San FranciscoI   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:46:15 GMTp4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businesst> Message-ID: <Xon18.77824$Sj1.31401294@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message% news:3C45D388.43BC4A71@pacbell.net...aE > From what I've heard, Dave Cutler did not "write" VMS or NT. He wassI > involved in the early days with some of the VMS design and when he wentt' > to MS he was the project lead for NT.a  L At DEC Cutler worked on VAXeln, then went on dabble in Mica, the VMS-like OSL for the stillborn PRISM architecture. When PRISM was KO'd (in more ways thanJ one) in late March 1988, Cutler took the advice of Horatio Alger and "wentI west, young man." Seems that the Mica code went west with him, as there's I more than a casual resemblence to the Mica code and the original NT code.  ;-}o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:40:59 -0500a% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>e Subject: Compaq financials, Message-ID: <3C460176.FF5D3826@videotron.ca>   I didn't bother taking notes..  M As usual, NSK, Unix and Industry standard servers are mentioned, but not VMS.o No surprise there.    J What did stand out is Capellas spending a bit of time extoling some of theJ very large Alpha supercomputer sales the made, last year with some systems% doing trillion operations per second.lN (Image this projects is that for the remainder of its life, Alpha is relegated to supercomputer sales only).   Q No mention of the alpha murder neither by compaq or by analysts asking questions.a  ' Access business improves significantly.s  N Mike Winkler was allowed to talk, but he didn't mention anything about Windows taking over the enterprise.-  J Tandem growing and getting new business (expanding to new markets). Tandem getting wireless business.  N High performance operates in small focused niche where its differences give it an edge.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:58:53 GMT_* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report.B Message-ID: <1Yk18.690833$8q.55443775@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:eMi18.112$PZ4.841@news.cpqcorp.net...   ...c  J > Actually, that is exactly what some people want - even on big iron.  TheF > cost of electricity and cooling can amount to quite a bit in a largeG > installation.  If you can drop the CPUs into low-power mode, you savet moneyk
 > on both.  H Then again, you might just choose a different CPU that could provide theI same performance for a small fraction of the power:  less than 1/2 if youoH compare EV7 with McKinley, more like 1/5 if you compare EV8 with MadisonF (and POWER should come close to that fraction in the same time-frame).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 04:19:14 GMT . From: "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com>= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner reportn- Message-ID: <6hs18.37455$Vq.343798@rwcrnsc53>)   "Fred Kleinsorge" wrote: >I > David Mathog wrote > >t > >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:oI > >> For instance, Itanium uses the ACPI interfaces for configuration andqB > >> power management - so perhaps one day you will see power down  > >> modes on Itanium platforms. > >h6 > >That would be one odd capability for an OS designed3 > >to have 99.9999% uptime.  I guess one could idle33 > >half the processors in a 128 cpu monster withoutO9 > >losing uptime, but somehow it doesn't seem likely thatI4 > >anyone will be sweating the electricity costs for2 > >that category of big iron.  However it would be7 > >very nice on that OpenVMS/Itanium laptop.  (That's a_2 > >joke folks - look up the power requirements for > >these chips.) > E > Actually, that is exactly what some people want - even on big iron.iD > The cost of electricity and cooling can amount to quite a bit in aD > large installation.  If you can drop the CPUs into low-power mode, > you save money on both.   / Examples of where module-level power control iss. helpful in the biggest fault-tolerant systems:  9 1. Power mains fail, and the system runs on battery power-0 until mains return or the batteries are drained.  : 2. Some fan or power converter or environmental A/C fails,D so the system has to reconfig itself to run with less power or heat.  ; 3. System load rises in daytime and slacks off at midnight,-0 or doubles when Wall Street has an exciting day.  9 4. Customer pays cpu rent based on the amount of hardware ; actively applied, not based on the total amount of hardwareu
 installed.  7 Five years ago, Intel planned that successors to Merced-9 would eventually displace most uses of x86 processors forE2 home PCs and even laptops, after Moore's law fixed6 some near-term issues.  Intel saw no $$$ in staying in4 a market that AMD et al could easily clone.  The PCs2 and laptops would need all the usual PC and laptop sleep modes.  3         -- Duane Sand, not speaking for Compaq etc.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:20:27 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>u= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report-, Message-ID: <3C465F1B.694D99F6@videotron.ca>   Duane Sand wrote: 8 > some near-term issues.  Intel saw no $$$ in staying in6 > a market that AMD et al could easily clone.  The PCs4 > and laptops would need all the usual PC and laptop > sleep modes.    N The problem is that the 8086 became popular only because of Clones, and CompaqI or all companies should be fully aware of it since they existence startedr+ because they were able to clone the IBM PC.P  F And prices were forced down because Intel had competition for its 80860 architecture, at times even faster than its own.  L As long as the IA64 remains proprietary, prices will remain high, especially, because itis a bloated chip with low yields.  N For systems such as Tandem and Wildfires, this doesn't matter much because theL cost of the CPU is a small portion of the total system cost. But for low ens, servers and desktops, this starts to matter.  L And just like VMS won't grow because it is limited to the high end, IA64 mayF not grow until it can become low priced to compete against the 8086 or Power/Sparc systems.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:57:52 -0600C From: bruns@spam.encompasserve.org (Alan Bruns, Allied Electronics)-& Subject: DFWCUG Next Meeting, Jan 22nd3 Message-ID: <oEXB30AN8+FB@eisner.encompasserve.org>v  M The Dallas/Fort Worth Compaq User Group returns to a monthly meeting schedule  starting this month.  M The next meeting will be Tuesday, January 22nd, at 6:00PM. The presenter willsL be Steve Smiley; the topic, "War Driving".  Steve will be speaking about theJ importance of securing your wireless network, demonstrating his point withM examples found while using his laptop in his car driving around the DFW area.p  H The February meeting will be held on Tuesday the 19th, at 6:00PM.  John - Wisniewski will be presenting three subjects:s   		OpenVMS Roadmape 		Itanium Porting Roadmapt 		Alpha-Itanium Roadmapw  E If you attend, you'll need to be able to sign a Compaq Non-disclosuree
 Agreement.    K The latest "Quadwords", hot off the press (so to speak) is available onliner at% 		http://www.dfwcug.org/thismonth.pdfe   So check it out!   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:41:41 GMTr* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>J Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?B Message-ID: <VHk18.530029$C8.37456288@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:DVi18.114$PZ4.725@news.cpqcorp.net... > ? > JF Mezei wrote in message <3C448A27.2F33BD67@videotron.ca>...o   ...   J > >But IPF is inferior to Alpha and years behind for the types of features > thatB > >the remaining VMS customer base expects. (Wildfire type stuff). > >b >f >.K > You are confusing a chip with a system platform.  You don't think that we D > are busily designing and building a Wildfire class Itanium system?  > Wouldn't it be more appropriate to be designing and building aJ *Marvel*-class system, since that's likely where the goal posts will be by the time it arrives?  H And in that vein, while it's possible to envision how a *Wildfire*-classL Itanic system might be built (just use about twice as many Itanic processorsJ as you would have EV68s and/or copy Sun's large systems, since SPARC seemsE about equivalent to Merced in performance), it's not quite as easy to=L understand how you'd build a *Marvel*-class Itanic system for the next threeJ years or so (i.e., until the earliest one could hope to see Itanic acquireB the on-chip MP and memory glue that EV7, POWER4, and Hammer have).   > I > Itanium is behind the curve in respect to the EV7 for large MP systems,c butf0 > my guess is that we'll se them catch up there.  J Well, if Alpha development stops and Itanic survives, that's a pretty safe* bet - just don't hold your breath waiting.   > J > But not everyone buys a huge system.  The ES40/ES45 and DS20 systems are > very big sellers.   A That's the second time you've said this (the other time even more H forcefully), which raises the question of just how well a 'blade' serverH approach addresses this lower-end (but you claim very revenue-important)K segment of the market.  Expandibility costs money - money people don't needcI to spend if they don't need that ability - and when you throw in at least5H twice as many Itanic 'blades' to achieve Alpha-equivalent performance itH really doesn't appear very attractive (nor does a non-blade 2X-processorF Itanic SMP, since that loses the volume manufacturing advantage blades supposedly confer).N   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 01:05:41 GMTN6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>Y Subject: Re: Evidence of external help required for a VMS reboot - was: Re: 17  years and)B Message-ID: <Frp18.438$d15.27085@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  K As the Y2K Program Manager I offered our customers around the United StatesvK the option of powering down to cold iron 31-Dec-1999 and having a scheduledfL slot for a support person to call and be available for their reboot.  Of theJ dozen who accepted this option, six had to be provided directions to their; power and halt switches.  That was my biggest VMS Y2 issue.a     -- Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s to replyh      A "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messageu* news:3C4460D7.68D9CB7F@blueyonder.co.uk... >a >  > Paul Sture wrote:a > >oI > > In article <3C430672.ACFAB67B@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:n > > > Paul Sture wrote:  > > > >t >aK > > > > I spotted an ad on www.jobserve.co.uk just after Christmas. It said,K > > > > something like "Unix guru sought to supervise a reboot of a VAX/VMStI > > > > Alpha system tomorrow". [snigger - don't you just love agencies?]rH > > > > Just a day or less of short notice work for big bucks in London. > > > >eH > > > > (Sorry UK readers, I didn't spot it soon enough, or I would have passed > > > > the info on.)>   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 13:19:22 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)r! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure?o3 Message-ID: <wB3Xr++AdffC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3C44339C.B12139C8@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: > Simon Clubley wrote: >  dK >> I should also point out that link level protocols may also do additionalrL >> checking of the packet. In the case of Ethernet that's a CRC. In the caseK >> of SLIP that's basically no error checking. PPP does have error checking.H >> builtin, but I would need to re-read the RFC to remember the details. > D > Well here, you end up adding a CRC to a packet of rubbish, only toB > verify that the same rubbish is received at the other end! GIGO. >   M Of course, the general idea is that the link level checksum/CRC is calculateddA before the packet does have an opportunity to become corrupted indI transmission. As your router example nicely demonstrates, theory does noth always become practice. :-)   G > My suspicion is that in peoples' haste to implement TCP software, thegA > wider issue of data integrity has not been properly considered.   I That's quite possible. It's easy to do a TCP/IP implementation that worksdJ only in ideal conditions. It's a lot harder to do one that works correctlyH in hostile conditions, which is why the RFC's are full of implementationH advice. A few years ago I actually did a simple user mode implementationI of TCP/IP (on a VLC) as I wanted to understand the protocol, which is whyeE I understand what's involved in getting it to work correctly in these  conditions.   I > If it's not native VMS --> VMS, I don't trust it. Perhaps what I do foreI > verification is overkill, but after repeatedly being woken at 1 or 2 AMiI > because 'the best network since sliced bread' can't do its job properly C > gets a little tiring. Corrupted records was just one issue I havec > encountered with FTP.C >   J Actually, given what you have mentioned, I consider your precautions to beM entirely reasonable. One alternative that I would use to handle the corrupted G records case would be to ZIP the file before transmission and let unzipsJ on the receiving end verify that the file arrived without corruption; thisC would also handle partial transfers that incorrectly appeared to be# successful.u  E This does not handle the FTP hanging case, but I code against that byfI spawning a subprocess prior to the FTP, which kills the parent process if . the DCL WAIT in the subprocess ever completes.   Simon.   -- wG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       e+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 01:07:07 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure?s- Message-ID: <87vge2ns1w.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   I simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:c  ? > Nic, I don't understand what you are trying to say here. ThisfD > statement comes across as you believe that FTP data is sent acrossE > the network without _any_ error checking on the contents of the FTP  > data.e  p. That is right. Welcome to the brave new world.  D > If that's what you are trying to say, then this is not correct, asC > although FTP itself does not do any error checking, the TCP level F > does checksum the packet and throws it away if the checksum does notD > match. This applies to all data transmitted via TCP (as opposed toB > UDP) regardless of the higher level protocol. The details are in	 > RFC793.   G Provided they have not been turned off. They cost performancee, get ridiD of it!! Plus, they are not end-to-end, and that is esential for data
 integrity.  nF > What I do think however, is that the checksum in TCP appears to be a+ > lot weaker than that available via a CRC.t  J It it the lack of end-to-end that is the problem. Look for some of the old DAP CRC error war stories    -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 14:34:39 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)y! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure? 3 Message-ID: <y1NFYLGfQQKJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  \ In article <87vge2ns1w.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:K > simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:x > @ >> Nic, I don't understand what you are trying to say here. ThisE >> statement comes across as you believe that FTP data is sent acrosseF >> the network without _any_ error checking on the contents of the FTP >> data. >   0 > That is right. Welcome to the brave new world.  G That's only true if you turn off TCP checksumming (if your stack allows H you to do so) and then don't use a link level protocol with robust errorK detection. Are there any people out there who run in such a configuration ?1   > E >> If that's what you are trying to say, then this is not correct, astD >> although FTP itself does not do any error checking, the TCP levelG >> does checksum the packet and throws it away if the checksum does not E >> match. This applies to all data transmitted via TCP (as opposed tosC >> UDP) regardless of the higher level protocol. The details are inn
 >> RFC793. > I > Provided they have not been turned off. They cost performancee, get ridKF > of it!! Plus, they are not end-to-end, and that is esential for data > integrity. >  d  L IMNSHO, anyone who does file transfers across current communications mediumsL without some underlying checksum/CRC check on the data deserves to be kicked off their employer's premises.  G >> What I do think however, is that the checksum in TCP appears to be a@, >> lot weaker than that available via a CRC. > L > It it the lack of end-to-end that is the problem. Look for some of the old > DAP CRC error war storiesy >   L Why is end to end an issue in TCP/IP ? If an intermediate device between theM two hosts needs to re-write the packet (and hence change it's checksum), thenaK it needs to validate the original packet first. If it doesn't do that, theneM it's broken, and I don't see how you can blame the TCP/IP protocol instead ofe0 some manufacturer's broken implementation of it.   BTW, from RFC1122:  3          4.2.2.7  TCP Checksum: RFC-793 Section 3.1q  B             Unlike the UDP checksum (see Section 4.1.3.4), the TCPH             checksum is never optional.  The sender MUST generate it and'             the receiver MUST check it.a   Simon.   -- sG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       i+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:53:04 -0500 - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>B! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure? ( Message-ID: <3C45E825.4D767F75@ohio.edu>   Simon,  F 	I presumed that he was not asking about TCP/IP end-to-end, but rather@ diskfile-to-diskfile end-to-end.  That is, the data transfer andH manipulation before (on the sending machine) and after (on the receivingH machine) are not guarded by the TCP/IP checksum mechanism, and hence can% be sources of undetected corruption. u   								RDPl     Simon Clubley wrote: >  [snip] > N > Why is end to end an issue in TCP/IP ? If an intermediate device between theO > two hosts needs to re-write the packet (and hence change it's checksum), thenlM > it needs to validate the original packet first. If it doesn't do that, then O > it's broken, and I don't see how you can blame the TCP/IP protocol instead ofa2 > some manufacturer's broken implementation of it. >  > BTW, from RFC1122: > 5 >          4.2.2.7  TCP Checksum: RFC-793 Section 3.1u > D >             Unlike the UDP checksum (see Section 4.1.3.4), the TCPJ >             checksum is never optional.  The sender MUST generate it and) >             the receiver MUST check it.  >  > Simon. >  > --B > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.a   -- dB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 15:32:21 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)h! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure? 3 Message-ID: <BELVkZTct5A2@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  } In article <y1NFYLGfQQKJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:l > N > Why is end to end an issue in TCP/IP ? If an intermediate device between theO > two hosts needs to re-write the packet (and hence change it's checksum), thenlM > it needs to validate the original packet first. If it doesn't do that, thenmO > it's broken, and I don't see how you can blame the TCP/IP protocol instead ofr2 > some manufacturer's broken implementation of it. >   J [BTW, I am only talking about the TCP checksum, which as far as I can see,N should only need to be re-written if it goes through something like a NAT box.I or a protocol converter. I am aware that the IP checksum is re-written atn every hop.]e   > BTW, from RFC1122: > 5 >          4.2.2.7  TCP Checksum: RFC-793 Section 3.1  > D >             Unlike the UDP checksum (see Section 4.1.3.4), the TCPJ >             checksum is never optional.  The sender MUST generate it and) >             the receiver MUST check it.- >   A Interesting (and concerning) discovery time. According to UCX 4.xlH documentation, the default for /CHECKSUM (see SET PROTOCOL TCP/CHECKSUM)H appears to be no checksums; which would be a violation of the above RFC,K but I note that on my system it's enabled, so I wonder if the documentationr< is wrong or if I just turned it on and then forgot about it.  M What does a UCX SHOW PROTO TCP/PARAMETER show on other people's 4.x systems ?c  N BTW, before everyone starts worrying, I should point out that on, for example,I an Ethernet, that a CRC check is in effect at the data link layer, so thelK data link would throw away a corrupted packet. It's only if you try to sendhH the packet over (for example) a SLIP link without checksums that you may have a problem.a  I I also note that for UCX 5.x it doesn't seem to be an option, so I assume @ that the RFC is been followed and checksums are on all the time.   Simon.   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       e+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 02:04:55 GMTh1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>bD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!' Message-ID: <3C463236.6D0D8354@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > [snip]F > People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People canD > belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more > information on the topic?-  G The main difference is that Gartner especially, but also Inquirer (to ap7 GREATLY lesser degree) are in the credibility business.u  G Compaq, as evidenced by "recent" events (12 months or less) places lessm, value on credibility, and so pays the price.  : To get different results, one must take different actions.   -- t David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:45:03 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)wD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!3 Message-ID: <apE9OMhPueEx@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <3C463236.6D0D8354@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:  > Sue Skonetski wrote:	 >> [snip]oG >> People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People canlE >> belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has moreo >> information on the topic? > I > The main difference is that Gartner especially, but also Inquirer (to a-9 > GREATLY lesser degree) are in the credibility business.r >   < 	My thoughts exactly.  And when Gartner pens things that areA 	easily refuted by Compaq (with supporting evidence, i.e. numbers8C 	and other related facts and/or idle speculation - believing active > 	system count is 30-40% less than Compaq's offered 411K) their 	credibility takes a big hit.    				Robw  H Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the sameO function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state ofm# things.   -- Sir Winston Churchill l   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 02:18:02 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: Inquirer take on Ayr Alpha monsterI- Message-ID: <87n0zenorp.fsf@prep.synonet.com>t  6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:   ...aC > I suspect that the role of the alleged Mother of all AlphaServersn> > would be related more to Echelon than to Carnivore and MagicA > Lantern. NSA and its rival electronic intelligence agencies areID > pretty good at capturing data; analyzing same sufficiently rapidlyB > to make such analysis relevant is the hard part of the task. TheB > description of the alleged Alpha system makes me tend to believeE > that it's designed for rapid analysis of raw traffic gleaned from aiD > variety of collection mechanisms. But of course, I could be wrong.  D Top of the list would be the 'Dictionary' system, or whaat ever theyH call it now days. The spooks have admitted to congress they can not keep	 up there.h  = SMS? Is there anyone who thought they *wouldn't* log the lot?    -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.S@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 02:14:26 GMTm1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>t) Subject: Re: Loading the ship with cheesed' Message-ID: <3C463470.B0A4A41F@fsi.net>e   Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > [snip]> > After you have a sufficient amount of money, who needs work?   I'd have to wonder...y  F ...after how many rounds would I find golf so boring I'd never take to the links again.  F ...after how many trips around the world would I find the whole effort boring.-  B ...what I would do to challenge myself once I got bored with being wealthy and bored.  E A mentor of mine once posed this question: assuming you have only six H months to live and money is no object, what would you have to accomplishH in your remaining days in order to feel that your life was worth living?5 (His intent was to help you discover your "purpose").g   -- o David J. Dachtera9 dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:27:51 -0700t3 From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@west.raytheon.com>-0 Subject: Managing multiple nodes at one terminalF Message-ID: <OFF080DCC2.74F1DA53-ON07256B43.007ACCA9@rsc.raytheon.com>   Folks:   Help me overcome a brain fart.  G What is the product called that uses a DECwindows program to act as thelG system console a bunch of nodes.  I know that I plugged all the consoletK ports into a DECserver then this tool would display each node as an icon onsG the display.  I could view all console messages at the same time or log ' into them all from this single display.   8 And is that tool (or something similar) still available?   dave.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:55:59 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>4 Subject: RE: Managing multiple nodes at one terminal- Message-ID: <0033000048115012000002L022*@MHS>1  1 =0ATo address your cerebroflatulence, the producto4 in question was known as PolyCenter Console Manager.  ; Here's Compaq's "Mature Product" page that shows it as EOL-g; http://www.compaq.com/services/software/ss_mps_se_amap.htmln  = Its functionality is now part of Unicenter Console Managements- for OpenVMS that's offered by another vendor.m2 http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?ID=3D1210   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe) Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:33 PMiB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0 Subject: Managing multiple nodes at one terminal     Folks:   Help me overcome a brain fart.  H What is the product called that uses a DECwindows program to act as the=  H system console a bunch of nodes.  I know that I plugged all the console=  H ports into a DECserver then this tool would display each node as an ico= n onH the display.  I could view all console messages at the same time or log=  ' into them all from this single display.   8 And is that tool (or something similar) still available?   dave.=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:54:46 -0500I+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>o4 Subject: RE: Managing multiple nodes at one terminalT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B8F@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   David,  H Console management solutions are fairly common these days for people whoG want direct access to consoles from remote locations, console log filesaG maintained, event escalation (page, email) on specific console messages  etc.  B One I like is web based prod called ConsoleWorks: (VMS, UNIX or NT
 server based) / http://www.tditx.com/products_consoleworks.htmlr   Other solutions:G http://www.robomon.com/products/detail_robocentral.htm RoboCentral froml HeroixD http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?ID=3D1210 CommandIT from CA (former VAXcluster console)    Regardsv  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanta Compaq Canada Corp.y Professional Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: David D Miller [mailto:ddmiller@west.raytheon.com] Sent: January 16, 2002 5:28 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Managing multiple nodes at one terminal     Folks:   Help me overcome a brain fart.  G What is the product called that uses a DECwindows program to act as the G system console a bunch of nodes.  I know that I plugged all the consoleoH ports into a DECserver then this tool would display each node as an icon onG the display.  I could view all console messages at the same time or log-' into them all from this single display.J  8 And is that tool (or something similar) still available?   dave.    ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:04:44 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon). Subject: Re: Marxm, Message-ID: <a24ptc$1ti2$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  G In article <3c42c944$0$20644$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>, 5  "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes:h |> aB |> But we still can understand each other if we talk, even without, |> capitalization - so do we really need it? |> a  B With the spoken word we have inflection for aural cues and in faceB to face conversation we have visual cues.  Written has always beenE a problem, thus the need for the creation of emoticons to try (badly)cD to make up for this shortcoming.  Removing capitalization would make it even worse.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:08:36 GMTC2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast.o0 Message-ID: <85l18.128$PZ4.934@news.cpqcorp.net>  p In article <00A08181.6F9F0482@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:e :In article <q9118.54$PZ4.360@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:r- :>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/y ..G :... and it's still not readable.  Please go back and format it the way6' :that the former issues were formatted.t  I   Something in the left text does require slight magnification to resolvegJ   the dithering (font oddity of some sort?), but the document is readable I   and is viewable on OpenVMS.  (I did have to bump XPDF to +3 to read the_D   white-on-red text, but the rest of the document is quite legible.)    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:08:26 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)l) Subject: Re: Need exposure to VMS...Fast. 0 Message-ID: <00A08230.7E984F94@SendSpamHere.ORG>  e In article <85l18.128$PZ4.934@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:dq >In article <00A08181.6F9F0482@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:df >:In article <q9118.54$PZ4.360@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> writes:. >:>http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvmstimes/ >...H >:... and it's still not readable.  Please go back and format it the way( >:that the former issues were formatted. >dJ >  Something in the left text does require slight magnification to resolveK >  the dithering (font oddity of some sort?), but the document is readable iJ >  and is viewable on OpenVMS.  (I did have to bump XPDF to +3 to read theE >  white-on-red text, but the rest of the document is quite legible.)   G ASI-PDF will not display it.  I would like to be able to display it andrG I would like to be able to print it on my LNCO2 color laser printer.  InC find the ASI-PDF viewer produces a very good PDF -> PS -- color PS.e   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesi   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:11:11 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)n4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201162011.52dadb10@posting.google.com>t  Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C443350.8A826031@videotron.ca>...u > "David L. Cathey" wrote:M > > get the latest version of as many popular products on the CD's as we can,- > > just like last time. > P > Is there any process to suggest/poll for whcih products Hobbyist would like toN > see ? (for instance, I wouldn't mind seing the real All-in-1 (office server) > in there.p > L > (By the way, the  layered product licenses include a bunch of licences forL > "all-in-1" but none for the real one, they deal with the retired "all-in-1 > mail" stuff.  E 	Please remember that the CD is very space restricted.  Of course I'deF love to put everyones favorite products on the CD, but that's just notN possible (unless everyone had DVD drives).  If you would like a product added,M I don't mind you requesting it, but please be prepared to provide suggestionsrJ of 1-3 existing products that can be removed from the distribution to makeL room for them.  For ALL-IN-1 and C++, that's at least 2-3 products, as these are very large kits.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:13:22 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)F4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201162013.3eca7a59@posting.google.com>c  s "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@novagate.com> wrote in message news:<001801c19de1$b7fc1d00$cb96a8c6@manufact5l8vs8>...eK > If someone has the 7.2-2 kits or the 7.3 kits can they give them or allowy > others to copy them ?kN > If I have them and make them available to hobbiest users to download or copy > am I breaking the law??=  ? 	It would be prefered to let them borrow them, and return them AF when they are done installing what they need.  Creating bootleg copiesH of the Consolidated Distribution CD's would likely be very frowned upon.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:17:42 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)m4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201162017.2aba0534@posting.google.com>c  z "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message news:<kfN08.6347$WM6.1329694@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>..., > Barry Treahy, Jr. <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote:L > I'm pretty sure it's not Compaq.  If it was, I suspect we'd have something0 > along the lines of the Tru64 Hobbyist Program.  < 	It's not Compaq.  But they do provide us with lots of great support.  L > At the same time it might be worth checking to see if people would like to. > be able to get a copy of the V1 Hobbyist CD.  A 	They are sold out.  There are some people that have a few extra, : but I think these are likely going to be collectors items!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:12:15 -0500v' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> 4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?< Message-ID: <howard-6E7D77.00121517012002@enews.newsguy.com>  = In article <e565ed03.0201162011.52dadb10@posting.google.com>,e-  davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) wrote:   O > I don't mind you requesting it, but please be prepared to provide suggestions L > of 1-3 existing products that can be removed from the distribution to makeN > room for them.  For ALL-IN-1 and C++, that's at least 2-3 products, as these > are very large kits.  G Or increase the size of the Hobbiest distribution to multiple CD-ROMs. , <smile>d   -- h Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"- Xerox is the anti-Microsoft.  And visa-versa.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:06:04 -0500d+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>, Subject: RE: Pro mergerfT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B8C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Barry,  G >>> For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to come outs3 of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS <<<t  G What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great and @ one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's currentG business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressivelyeF competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? Similarily, CompaqH Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.  E Obviously there are business and loads of legal issues about what one F company can (or will) say against or for the other company when in the middle of a merger.s   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantr Compaq Canada Corp.e Professional Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----0 From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com] Sent: January 16, 2002 12:57 PMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu Subject: Re: Pro mergerb     Tony Scandora wrote:  $ >ZD just published this in a letter: >iE >"Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorinai dareG >not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computeryB >operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) & VMS (Digital) >Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq."  >eB This logic is flawed because if HP where buying Compaq for VMS andE Tandem, they should have been able to predict the damage and mistrustlF that the merger announcements would create as well as Compaq's tankingD of Alpha; For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had toH come out of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS and it's future@ in order to protect the interests of what they are purchasing...  F I cannot recall 'word one' from HP since this merger announcement thatG would indicate any loyalty, dedication or commitment to the old DigitaloG base or in particular, the VMS base.  Hell, this is seems impossible tos$ get from Compaq and they own it! =20     Barry    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:15:58 -0700i+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>  Subject: Re: Pro mergeri' Message-ID: <3C45ED8E.5060506@mmaz.com>t  & --------------0501030104040206050506009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=floweda Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Main, Kerry wrote:  G >>>>For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to come outm >>>>4 >of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS <<< >-H >What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great andA >one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's current H >business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressively4 >competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? >tI Yes, but it appears that HP will be stearing the company, not Compaq and  H for HP to make it clear that if acquired, VMS would not follow the path  of MPE would go a long way.  I  H As for over-laps, isn't that why both the Hewletts and the Packards are 0 against this as most everyone else except C & C?   BarryT     > Similarily, CompaqI >Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.d >aF >Obviously there are business and loads of legal issues about what oneG >company can (or will) say against or for the other company when in theo >middle of a merger. >e	 >Regards,l >  >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036' >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comR >c >i >-----Original Message----- 1 >From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com]   >Sent: January 16, 2002 12:57 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Pro merger >a >C >Tony Scandora wrote:s >l% >>ZD just published this in a letter:  >>F >>"Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorina >> >dare  >,H >>not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computerC >>operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) & VMS7 >>	 >(Digitaln >e* >>Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq." >>C >This logic is flawed because if HP where buying Compaq for VMS andoF >Tandem, they should have been able to predict the damage and mistrustG >that the merger announcements would create as well as Compaq's tankingwE >of Alpha; For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had togI >come out of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS and it's futureeA >in order to protect the interests of what they are purchasing...i >aG >I cannot recall 'word one' from HP since this merger announcement thatnH >would indicate any loyalty, dedication or commitment to the old DigitalH >base or in particular, the VMS base.  Hell, this is seems impossible to# >get from Compaq and they own it!    >f >i >Barry >l >p >M >o   -- :  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028d      & --------------050103010404020605050600) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit0   <html> <head> </head>  <body> Main, Kerry wrote:<br>j <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B8C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net">   <blockquote type="cite">     <blockquote type="cite">       <blockquote type="cite">b         <pre wrap="">For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to come out<br></pre>         </blockquote>          </blockquote>s         </blockquote>os        <pre wrap=""><!---->of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS &lt;&lt;&lt;<br><br>What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great and<br>one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's current<br>business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressively<br>competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK?</pre>          </blockquote>aH Yes, but it appears that HP will be stearing the company, not Compaq andJ for HP to make it clear that if acquired, VMS would not follow the path of# MPE would go a long way. &nbsp;<br>M         <br>O As for over-laps, isn't that why both the Hewletts and the Packards are againste0 this as most everyone else except C &amp; C?<br>         <br>	 Barry<br>T         <br>         <br>r         <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B8C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net">           <pre wrap=""> Similarily, Compaq<br>Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.<br><br>Obviously there are business and loads of legal issues about what one<br>company can (or will) say against or for the other company when in the<br>middle of a merger.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Kerry Main<br>Senior Consultant<br>Compaq Canada Corp.<br>Professional Services<br>Voice: 613-592-4660<br>Fax  :  819-772-7036<br>Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Kerry.Main@Compaq.com">Kerry.Main@Compaq.com</a><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com">mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com</a>]<br>Sent: January 16, 2002 12:57 PM<br>To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com">Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</a><br>Subject: Re: Pro merger<br><br><br>Tony Scandora wrote:<br><br></pre>"           <blockquote type="cite">             <pre wrap="">ZD just published this in a letter:<br><br>"Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorina<br></pre>             </blockquote>t.             <pre wrap=""><!---->dare<br></pre>$             <blockquote type="cite">               <pre wrap="">not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computer<br>operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) &amp; VMS<br></pre>               </blockquote>64               <pre wrap=""><!---->(Digital<br></pre>&               <blockquote type="cite">S                 <pre wrap="">Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq."<br><br></pre>5                 </blockquote>o                 <pre wrap=""><!---->This logic is flawed because if HP where buying Compaq for VMS and<br>Tandem, they should have been able to predict the damage and mistrust<br>that the merger announcements would create as well as Compaq's tanking<br>of Alpha; For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to<br>come out of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS and it's future<br>in order to protect the interests of what they are purchasing...<br><br>I cannot recall 'word one' from HP since this merger announcement that<br>would indicate any loyalty, dedication or commitment to the old Digital<br>base or in particular, the VMS base.  Hell, this is seems impossible to<br>get from Compaq and they own it!  <br><br><br>Barry<br><br><br><br><br></pre>                 </blockquote>@                 <br>B                 <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--   D Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President &amp; CIO    E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com">Treahy@mmaz.com</a> * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028</pre>e                 <br>                 </body>c                 </html>r  ( --------------050103010404020605050600--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:58:25 -0500(% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>c Subject: Re: Pro merger , Message-ID: <3C46058A.979931B3@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great and-B > one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's currentI > business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressively 6 > competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK?     I What happens when Compaq kills Alpha and True64 before the merger is evenOJ approved ? what does that do to Copmpaq's current business when the CompaqH sales force is no longer able actively and aggressively sell dead CompaqN products against HP products (Itanium and HP-UX) Compaq has said woudl replace Compaq's own ?    J Compaq prematurely killed its own products with no indication that what isN left will be key to HP and not killed.  HP killed MPE but mentioned that HP-UXL was key to its product suite. No mention of VMS's future by either company's senior management.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:01:41 -0800 % From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>  Subject: Re: Pro merger-) Message-ID: <3C460655.45BB44D4@rdrop.com>-   "Main, Kerry" wrote: > I > What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great and-B > one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's currentI > business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressively H > competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? Similarily, CompaqJ > Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.  F We were bought by a competitor a few years ago.  One of our staunchestF foes was forced to become an ally, and spent some uncomfortable monthsF trying to explain to customers why he suddenly thoug they should *buy*H our product (VMS-based client server) instead of the PC-based ("crap" isB putting it politely) they used to give away consequential to other$ business dealings with the customer.  G It was fun to watch... sitting on the same side of the table instead oft across from him.  H That said, it's tough competition trying to sell stability, performance,C and an extended (if transparent) feature set, compared to somethingfF that's PC-based and uses all the right buzz-words and glitzy looking. D But I'm sure you all understand what we're fighting.  We've even hadB John Loether* come in and give a presentation- and still lost to aC company that promised they could solve the problem better under NT.   E (* If you've never heard John speak, and you get a chance, _go_.  Yout5 may not learn anything, but you'll have a good time.)P   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:23:48 -0500M% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Pro mergere, Message-ID: <3C461986.1751EA58@videotron.ca>   Dean Woodward wrote:G > (* If you've never heard John speak, and you get a chance, _go_.  Youy7 > may not learn anything, but you'll have a good time.)   N He is now caught between a rock and a hard place due to the alphacide. (He wasN such a good proponent of alpha, showing how alpha was so much superior to what6 IA64 could ever be due to IA64's archtectural design).  L Saw him in the fall during a presentation and I though he was able to handleK the issue expertly, without prostituting himself too much.  But his messagesM isn't as good as it was prior to June 25 since much of it is nice to hear butt< you know is meaningless due to the impending death of Alpha.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:39:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: Pro mergeru3 Message-ID: <tOAsN3GZ4+IC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Q In article <3C460655.45BB44D4@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:r > "Main, Kerry" wrote: >> sJ >> What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great andC >> one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's currentyJ >> business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressivelyI >> competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? Similarily, CompaqmK >> Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.t > H > We were bought by a competitor a few years ago.  One of our staunchestH > foes was forced to become an ally, and spent some uncomfortable monthsH > trying to explain to customers why he suddenly thoug they should *buy*J > our product (VMS-based client server) instead of the PC-based ("crap" isD > putting it politely) they used to give away consequential to other& > business dealings with the customer. > I > It was fun to watch... sitting on the same side of the table instead of  > across from him.  1 Then again, I remember DEC folks who used to say:e  > 	"Nonstop is a marketing term, not a service level guarantee."   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:27:47 GMT + From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>tL Subject: RE: Problem: Defining logical names with Null in equivalence string< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201161523330.5519-100000@jaipur>  F Give me a break.  Enough with the 'C' bashing that's been going on.  IJ have access to the VMS source listings and I can tell you that none of theI DCL stuff is written in C.  C wasn't 'big' yet when all of this stuff was>J written.  At least not within VMS engineering I would doubt.  Anyway, it's all MACRO-32 and BLISS.T  ( On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, POWERS, John wrote:
 > [...ZAP...] 5 > What this means in the real world, is that wheneveri5 > you are writing any DCL, and you want to check if a 6 > symbol truly contains nothing, you must always ask.. >   IF F$LENGTH(SYMBOL) .EQ. 0 > . and *never* rely one >   IF SYMBOL .EQS. "" >l. > . as the 2nd method could give a false 'yes' > 5 > This looks like somebody's brain fell out when they 5 > were writing this bit of VMS. Maybe they employed at7 > fresh out of college code-bunny who only learned unixa1 > and C, to write this bit - that's my suspicion.d >u6 > Amazing that it's never been fixed in all this time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:06:37 +0100a2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofe; Message-ID: <3c45dd4d.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>d  > Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= (arne.vajhoej@gtech.com) wrote: > Bob Ceculski wrote:uC > > Purveyor/TCPware can do the following ... Can any other VMS web  > > server?  ...eE > > Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingrH > > transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This meansD > > that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,F > > either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyH > > other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha > > system!, ...jG > PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multiple8: >     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's.  E And the "automatic, transparent, fail-over to any other system in thepC cluster" is a feature of TCPware which I have successfully employedm on a cluster running CSWS.   cu,r   Martin -- fB                         | Martin Vorlaender | VMS & WNT programmer1  OpenVMS: Where do you  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deaD  want to BE today?      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8                         | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:23:05 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofy= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201162023.6d2c50e3@posting.google.com>e  [ Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3C459EEC.C2BCBAA6@gtech.com>...1 > 1 > I thougth Purveyor was a discontinued product !i > E > Yoy are not going to convince many of the merit of VMS by referringa > to a discintinued product. >  > Arne > G > PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multipleb: >     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's.  E just because support has stopped doesn't mean it is not superior ... h  E what about failover!  only tcpware allows this ... read it again ...    = "Additionally, when coupled with Process Software's TCPware, r0 the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,A Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingoD transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This means@ that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,B either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyD other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha system!"  G purveyors features were ahead of its time and ensure many years of bothrP internet & intranet functionality ... also purveyor is the only vax solution ...M read the features here and tell me why it is no longer a feasible product ....K It also is like vms, it doesn't crash!  We did alot of testing w/purveyor & M OSU & Apache on tcpware, multinet and ucx, and tcpware purveyor won ... read!0  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------3 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Features5P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 Award-winning Web server performance and features:   :+ Support of all industry standard browsers   D Extensive, easy-to-configure security, including SSL encryption, Key@ Management facilities, basic authentication, and access controls$ Database access from a Web browser   Engineered for OpenVMS . Search and Index Engine   # Flexible and Robust User Security    Authentication Key Management  g Supports Multiple Web Sites  C Virtual Servers  6 Remote server management  * HTTP, FTP and Gopher proxy server support P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------< Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Technical DetailsP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------B Explore the Power of the Most Feature-Rich WebServer for OpenVMS:  SSL Encryption Support t  B Purveyor Encrypt WebServer for OpenVMS is the first commercial WebC server for OpenVMS to support Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) encryptionwC services. Part of the feature-rich award-winning Purveyor WebServermA family, Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS runs over the leading TCP/IPaE stack for OpenVMS, TCPware from Process Software, or any other TCP/IP8> for OpenVMS implementation. Now you can easily Web-enable yourF existing OpenVMS applications, develop an internal corporate Intranet,B or create a robust external Web presence - all within a secure Web environment.  A Using SSL encryption and authentication support, Purveyor Encrypt = ensures the security of access, traffic, and requests made torC Web-enabled OpenVMS systems, which typically house mission-criticalwF data. With Purveyor, your corporate information is secure. Here's why:  > Private: all messages between client and server are encrypted A Authenticated: server and sender are authenticated through Publice Key/Private Key CertificatesA Reliable: message integrity is ensured during transit by means ofd message authentication code = Purveyor WebServer will also run without encryption services, 9 eliminating unnecessary network overhead if not required.aP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engineered for OpenVMS tC Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS has been designed to take advantage of'= the OpenVMS architecture. Not only is Purveyor the industry'si> highest-performance Web server for OpenVMS, but Purveyor fullyC supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system forlE incredible system throughput. Additionally, when coupled with Process D Software's TCPware, the industry's leading TCP/IP stack for OpenVMS,A Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, including0D transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This means@ that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,B either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyD other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha system!rP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Search and Index Engine   E The capability to index, search and retrieve documents from a browsereB is provided with Process Software's WebSearch and WebIndex engine.F Search forms can be completely customized, and the querying capabilityB supports a variety of logical, proximity and wildcard operators toD optimize results. You select the criteria for how the search resultsF will be displayed. The matches will be displayed as HTML links, ranked according to relevance.cP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------# Flexible and Robust User Security  aB Purveyor Encrypt offers organizations a highly flexible and secure? environment for managing access to all documents on the server,o? whether it be for an Intranet or Internet application. PurveyorbA supports public key encryption and delivers server authenticationaE using signed digital certificates. A digital certificate verifies the 9 connection between a server's public key and the server'sbF identification. Digital signatures ensure the integrity of information within a certificate.o  D In addition to encryption, Purveyor offers additional administrativeA and management tools, such as access controls and proxy services.i  C Access Control - Secure your documents or server to only authorizedmE visitors. Management is easily accomplished through the Remote ServermC Manager, simply by point and click. ACLs do not need to be created.tB The server provides functionality to restrict access to individualE Hypertext Markup Language (HTML) pages based on IP address, username,aC or both. This allows servers to be customized for access by groups,b> such as company employees or external users accessing specific; information that may be restricted to authorized customers.m  F Purveyor Encrypt for OpenVMS supports multiple authorization databasesE for access control. In addition to Purveyor's built-in access controlnB database which provides for Web access control without the need toB create OpenVMS accounts for each Web user, Purveyor has integratedE support for the use of the OpenVMS SYSUAF.DAT file for authorization.iE Through the use of Purveyor's External Authentication Feature you can>F substitute any external database, even integrate a relational database like Oracle, or RDB.  D Proxy Services - proxy server support is provided for HTTP, FTP, and@ GOPHER protocols, providing LAN security by restricting Internet> activities of LAN users. The proxy server also offers improvedD performance feature by caching HTML pages to provide faster responseD to clients on the LAN. Purveyor also provides proxy-to-proxy support: for corporations with multiple proxy servers or firewalls.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Authentication  F Purveyor Encrypt provides full access control to files and directoriesF on the server. The secure server queries and verifies the integrity ofD digitally signed documents as it receives them. Authentication takesB place by using agreed upon keys to generate and verify the messageA digest, which consists of summary information that is transmittedr along with the message.sP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Key Management oC Purveyor Encrypt allows management of multiple keys, stored locally 8 and accessible through a user-specified password. SystemD administrators can create private keys specifying a password, create? certificates which may contain the public key and the encrypted/E private key, and sign certificates specifying the private key to use.nP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Application Interfaces -F ISAPI - Process Software has co-developed, with Microsoft Corporation,> a new Internet Server Application Programming Interface, which; provides a faster, higher performance interface to back end F applications from the Web server. Based on its own DLL, ISAPI providesC a significant performance advantage over conventional CGI. ISAPI ism@ supported by a number of Web server vendors allowing application@ developers to write for a single specification and to deliver onD multiple platforms. Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS also supports the Common Gateway Interface (CGI).nP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supports Multiple Web Sites   B Purveyor supports many logical Web sites on one server system (128@ with the TCPware TCP/IP for OpenVMS stack). It supports multiple@ "virtual servers," where a single Web server process responds toB multiple TCP/IP addresses and host names. It can also run multipleC copies of the Web server, with independent configuration databases,C' allowing totally independent operation.nP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Customised Logging  C Purveyor Encrypt provides full transaction logging, including time,oE date, HTML page, and the IP address of the requester, plus capture ofi< "referred URLs". Users select information to log and report.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Server Management > Manage administrative features of the Web server from a remoteC location on any browser. User authentication ensures secure access.aP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Templates and Sample Home Pages E Sample HTML Web pages and Forms help you get started using the server/ and its capabilities.aP --------------------------------------------------------------------------------5 Purveyor From Process Software Corporation Case StudyoP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Case Study - WCF & Associates   ? Uses Purveyor and the Web to Enable OpenVMS Print Applications    @ Increase productivity and decrease report waste "Web-enabling anF OpenVMS application has proven to be successful for our clients." Bill Farmer, President, WCF  E Running under Purveyor WebServer, WebPrinter provides an easy to use,dA graphical front end to viewing, searching and printing reports ont OpenVMS systems.  E WCF & Associates, a Process Software reseller in Big Bend, Wisconsin,oD bundles the Purveyor WebServer for OpenVMS with WEBPrinter software,F an easy to use and cost saving tool for accessing and printing reportsE stored on OpenVMS systems. WCF's use of Purveyor is a perfect example F of how Web-enabled OpenVMS applications can increase an organizations'' productivity and decrease costly waste.,  F WebPrinter saves time and money by providing a Web-based front end for< viewing and accessing reports. In conjunction with Purveyor,A WebPrinter displays reports via any web browser using a company'saD Internet or intranet. WEBPrinter generates reports in HTML, allowingF users to browse documents and print only the pages needed vs. printingC out an entire, and often lengthy report. By viewing the report as ah> Web-based HTML page, users are also able to search reports. ByF providing text search capabilities within reports, the ineffective and> timely process of paging through paper documents searching forE specific data is eliminated. The products graphical front end furthereE simplifies the process of viewing reports, including familiar browseru/ commands like GOTO, NEXT, PREVIOUS, and SUBMIT.s  B WCF's WebPrinter runs under Process Software's Purveyor WebServer.D "Purveyor's proven reliability and quality technical support made itE the natural choice for bundling with WEBPrinter," stated Bill Farmer,0D President WCF. WebPrinter and Purveyor runs on TCPware, MultiNet and$ any other TCP/IP for OpenVMS stacks.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:25:48 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof < Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201162025.2233335@posting.google.com>  u martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote in message news:<3c45dd4d.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...g@ > Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= (arne.vajhoej@gtech.com) wrote: > > Bob Ceculski wrote:SE > > > Purveyor/TCPware can do the following ... Can any other VMS webt
 > > > server?  >  ...G > > > Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, including J > > > transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This meansF > > > that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,H > > > either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyJ > > > other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha
 > > > system!. >  ...I > > PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multiple < > >     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's. > G > And the "automatic, transparent, fail-over to any other system in the E > cluster" is a feature of TCPware which I have successfully employed  > on a cluster running CSWS. >  > cu,g
 >   Martin  I unfortunately, CSWS cannot run on both Alpha & Vax in a mixed cluster ...- only tcpware/purveyor can ...0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:22:26 +0100s, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>0 Subject: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(& Message-ID: <3C45FD22.894BF109@gmx.ch>  O Well, for those of you who followed the previous steps of this amazing story, I M finally found from another Hobbyist the mandatory "PCI differential fast SCSIW  module KZPSAPS" for my PWS600au.  R I plugged it (in slot 4), I rebooted, but the power up cycle ended with a message:  N "YOU remove that unsupported device you've lurkingly put in my physical slot 4  and YOU turn me off then on !!!" (more or less)  < So, the KZPSAPS is obviously not an add-on for the PWS600au.  L Anyway, I have rebuilt my cluster without SCSI communication. Now, I need toP read the FAQ, the OpenVMS manuals, the FAQ and the FAQ to remember how to have a, common system disk accessed via Ethernet :-)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:01:56 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>4 Subject: RE: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(- Message-ID: <0033000048115567000002L072*@MHS>u  , =0AWell, there's spam, egg, sausage and FAQ. That's not got much FAQ in it.  # FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ= Lovely FAQ, Wonderful FAQ!   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETl) Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:20 PMrB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0 Subject: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(    H Well, for those of you who followed the previous steps of this amazing = story, IH finally found from another Hobbyist the mandatory "PCI differential fas= t SCSI  module KZPSAPS" for my PWS600au.  H I plugged it (in slot 4), I rebooted, but the power up cycle ended with=  a message:  H "YOU remove that unsupported device you've lurkingly put in my physical=  slot 4h  and YOU turn me off then on !!!" (more or less)  < So, the KZPSAPS is obviously not an add-on for the PWS600au.  H Anyway, I have rebuilt my cluster without SCSI communication. Now, I ne= ed to.H read the FAQ, the OpenVMS manuals, the FAQ and the FAQ to remember how =	 to have ag, common system disk accessed via Ethernet :-)   D.=e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 02:47:42 GMT/ From: dittman@dittman.net 4 Subject: Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(: Message-ID: <iXq18.1900$aB5.741866@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>  - Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> wrote:oQ : Well, for those of you who followed the previous steps of this amazing story, IoO : finally found from another Hobbyist the mandatory "PCI differential fast SCSIC" : module KZPSAPS" for my PWS600au.  T : I plugged it (in slot 4), I rebooted, but the power up cycle ended with a message:  P : "YOU remove that unsupported device you've lurkingly put in my physical slot 4" : and YOU turn me off then on !!!" : (more or less)  > : So, the KZPSAPS is obviously not an add-on for the PWS600au.  < I've seen this on a PWS500au with the KZPSA.  I solved it by: moving the card to a different slot.  It works fine.  I've: got two of them in a SCSI cluster.  They both have a KZPSA  and are sharing a RaidArray 310. --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net = Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:48:37 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>4 Subject: Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(& Message-ID: <3C4673C6.3CEB8C7C@gmx.ch>   dittman@dittman.net wrote:  =  I've seen this on a PWS500au with the KZPSA.  I solved it byr6 > moving the card to a different slot.  It works fine.   You made my day!   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:49:47 +0100f, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>4 Subject: Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(& Message-ID: <3C46740C.C1EDE0C2@gmx.ch>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > % > FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQe > Lovely FAQ, Wonderful FAQ!    > Is it a new version of Jungle COMPAQ... ooops... Jingle Bells?   :-)u   D.   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 22:36:24 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>-! Subject: raid vs volume shadowing 0 Message-ID: <a24v98$gbk@dispatch.concentric.net>  D I have historically seen many patches for software Volume Shadowing.E I have installed several hardware RAID systems last year. Works fine.t  = I may need to setup a brand new cluster with Volume Shadowingn) (probably with Alpha OpenVMS version 7.3)g  : What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing?4 e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup  
 Thank you.   Jim Strehlow, Data911t JimS@Data911.com Alameda, CA, USA  / "Let them do their worst. We will do our best."-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:44:00 GMTC+ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@rmoore.dyndns.org>-% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowing-< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.31.0201161531450.5519-100000@jaipur>  J Depends on how much redundancy you really want.  In our production clusterI we use Shadowing to shadow a couple controller-based RAID 0+1 sets behindp= different sets of HSG80's in different Storageworks cabinets.h  I If you set up hardware RAID, presumably all of the disks for the hardwarerH RAID (and possibly the controller) are all in the same cabinet.  So what@ happens when the power supply on the cabinet blows?  Or when theH controller goes belly-up.  Isn't it nice that *all* of your RAID members are all offline?  I Shadowing gives you the ability to connect different "disks" on differenteD cabinets using different paths and different controllers.  But thoseA "disks" could really be hardware RAID sets themselves.  I've usedqJ volume shadowing for years in different setups.  It's been very good.  The? question is, how much are you willing to spend for reliability?r  E I would contend it's going to be easier to eliminate single points ofrF failure using host-based volume shadowing than controller-based volumeH shadowing.  I suppose it would be possible to eliminate single points ofG failure using fibre channel (or some other multipath technology) if youv are careful.  # On 16 Jan 2002, Jim Strehlow wrote:n  F > I have historically seen many patches for software Volume Shadowing.G > I have installed several hardware RAID systems last year. Works fine.f >O? > I may need to setup a brand new cluster with Volume Shadowinga+ > (probably with Alpha OpenVMS version 7.3)n >i< > What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing?6 > e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup >t > Thank you. >o > Jim Strehlow, Data911r > JimS@Data911.com > Alameda, CA, USA >n1 > "Let them do their worst. We will do our best."u >y >l >i >T   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:42:55 GMTs$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowing < Message-ID: <3Lr18.23556$yC.2829346@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>  2 "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote in message* news:a24v98$gbk@dispatch.concentric.net...F > I have historically seen many patches for software Volume Shadowing.G > I have installed several hardware RAID systems last year. Works fine.-  J Have you ever had a RAID controller fail?  I've witnessed the results of aI failed Compaq RAID controller on an NT Server running Exchange.  SilentlyeF corrupted the heck out of all the data for a few days until it finally7 corrupted data in the swap file and the system crashed.a  K I've seen redundant HSJ-40 controllers be taken out by a failed drive - one G bad drive and I lost access to the entire cabinet.  I've seen redundantlK HSJ-50 controllers disagree on the membership of a RAID volume and restored- 40GB from backup tapes.-  ? > I may need to setup a brand new cluster with Volume Shadowingc+ > (probably with Alpha OpenVMS version 7.3)n  F I've used volume shadowing since 1990 and only once lost data due to aK software bug (it's now fixed and it could have been avoided if I would havepG been more paranoid at the time).  My data is currently shadowed betweengL redundant HSJ-50 controllers, where the data is in a RAIDset locally to each6 controller pair.  I have spare drives in each cabinet.  < > What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing?6 > e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup  L Frankly, who the hell cares about speed and cost if you have no reliability?H If you don't care if your data is really there, why pay the VMS premium?L Volume shadowing does cost money, although it can be licensed on a per-drive8 basis these days.  However, it really, really does work.  L I think you'll find that the general consensus is that those who really careH about their data still use volume shadowing, across HSJ controllers (ie,I both members not on the same controller pair).  Those who are financiallybF constrained by RAID controllers and keep their fingers crossed or just haven't been burnt yet.t   -- Ed Wilts Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 20:35:19 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowingc; Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201162035.256f01@posting.google.com>W  _ "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote in message news:<a24v98$gbk@dispatch.concentric.net>...iF > I have historically seen many patches for software Volume Shadowing.G > I have installed several hardware RAID systems last year. Works fine.a > ? > I may need to setup a brand new cluster with Volume Shadowingp+ > (probably with Alpha OpenVMS version 7.3)  > < > What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing?6 > e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup >  > Thank you. >  > Jim Strehlow, Data911e > JimS@Data911.com > Alameda, CA, USA > 1 > "Let them do their worst. We will do our best."o  K volume shadowing works fine for most situations ... raid is just a waste of-I time and money ... we used volume shadowing for vax and now Alpha VMS andEI never had a problem ... keep us up one time when a disk in the shadow set.J failed ... and for system shadows, it is real easy to make a bootable copyM both for online use and for tape backup ... just mount a compatible disk intokG the shadow set, monitor it for its copy/merge operation to finish, then J dismount it and you have a bootable copy ("no need for system images") and# can then backup to tape from it ...-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:04:21 -0500e- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>e  Subject: Re: SCSI to IDE bridges( Message-ID: <3C430184.745DB960@ohio.edu>  A Another widget to be aware of, which might well NOT work in a VMSnG system, is the PCI card that attaches UltaATA (= fast IDE??) disks in asH Macintosh, but makes them look like SCSI disks to the Mac OS.  The Tempo card from Sonnet:-  4 	http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_ata100.html  H At $100 it might be worth an experiment.  It provides two busses, with aG master drive and slave drive on each.  I have been very happy with mine,F in my Rev. 1 Blue & White G3 under Mac OS 8.6, 9.2.2, and 10.1.  YMMV!   								RDPi     "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > . > Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:7 > > In article <3C3DC45A.45B4B8D2@gce.com>, gce says...d > >>( > >>I use an Alcita IDEplex successfully > I > > Who sells these, other than with a tower full of CD-ROM drives?  It'svI > > an interesting device, most of the bridges I've seen only support one- > > or two devices, not eight. > N > Is 'Alcita' still around?  I just did a search and found their URL, but it's > no longer there. > M > Based on the pricetag Glenn quoted when he brought this up over a year ago,tM > I think I find the single drive bridges more attractive since I'd only wantdL > to add a disk or two this way.  So if you get around to trying any of them% > I'd love to hear about the results!c >  >                 Zane   -- tB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 11:24:10 -0800, From: mcbill20@hotmail.com (Bill McLaughlin)! Subject: Re: Selling VMS licensese< Message-ID: <e9cbc4f2.0201161124.c60d97c@posting.google.com>  C Back in February of 1998 the company I worked for closed it's doorssC and I purchased an AlphaStation from them (one that the company had-C purchased in January). The computer had a VMS base license plus twoe> 100 unit "VMS-ALPHA-ADL" licenses, a full (not client) clusterF license, NAS-150, Volume Shadowing (server, not client), Pathworks and% some languages and development tools.v  @ Foolishly, I paid for the additional software in addition to theE computer. When I called Compaq they told me that VMS, NAS and clusterS< licenses are tied to hardware and therefore transferable (orD upgradable to a larger box) but the other layered products stay withE the entity that purchased them. I am assuming this is still the case.e  E I still have this computer but I am running Oracle and need more thanvD the 128mb the box came with. Unfortunately memory (MSP01-FC, -FD) is? $400 for an additional 128mb. So, I am considering selling thism< machine on Ebay in hopes that someone might be interested inE purchasing it for the licenses. (I have the original hardcopy PAK's).tD A couple of years ago I sold an MV3100 this way and the company thatB purchased it had no problem with the license transfer. Does anyone% have any recent experience with this?O   Thanks.i Bill  X JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C40D2BF.1DA58D2@videotron.ca>... > Stephen Eickhoff wrote:i > > C > > I have unused VMS licenses which I would like to sell. Yup, the K > > original, honest to goodness blue border certificates. They aren't tiednG > > to any hardware IDs or expiration dates. Would I run into any legalg > > problems doing this? > M > If you had those licences to a company name (a company which you controlledpO > such as home business), you could always sell the company and all its assets,rL > at which point the licences would automatically go to the new owner of the > company .... > M > I am not sure you can "sell" you licenses. But you might sell a microvax IIeK > with all its licences for the value of the licences. Technically you'd benH > giving away the licences (with the new owner arranging with compaq for > transfer paperwork).   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 23:27:12 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products- Message-ID: <878zaypb8v.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   0 Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes:  A > UDF, JFS, ext2fs, etc.  Sticking to ODS-2/ODS-5 may be good for6E > clustering, but let's say I want a better (faster) file system thatj@ > doesn't necessarily have to be clustered.  Currently, its moreC > difficult under VMS because I have to do a driver AND an ACP.  OneD > Unix, I do the file system driver and mount code.  Oh, and gettingD > VMS MOUNT to recognize something other than ODS-2/5 or ISO-9660 is > like jumping on a pin.  D And what one is faster than VMS's disk system, used for performance?  H Writing and ACP and a CLI are in the official 'too-hard/unsup' basket :(A Pity that is going to change. I'd love to see the Tops-20 EXEC ontI VMS. Why would you need a driver for a different FS? Or is this a meaning 3 of 'file system' we are yet to love and understand?    -- V< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 23:35:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products- Message-ID: <87zo3enwbe.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  / koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:e  7 > In article <3C3B7BEB.68A752B3@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeie( > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:   > > Bob Koehler wrote: ...g  E > > How about a keypunch machine ? One could already put the sound of4D > > a keypunch for each key you press on the keyboard to simulate it > > :-)s  F >    Well, I was thinking IBM 360/75, but they don't seem to be makingC >    iMacs bigger, just older looking.  A keypunch would be too big F >    for the next step, and the last step seems to be away from making5 >    it look like it's part of the computer industry.e    Have you never seen a Model 000?  n   -- u< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 23:29:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products- Message-ID: <874rlmpb4h.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:g  N > File system performance is a seperate project being worked in parallel.  TheM > trick to putting a new file system on VMS is to make sure that RMS sees theoK > same semantics.  Otherwise, you can't use it for much.  You might as well G > mount the disk foreign, port the filesystem code, and create a set ofSN > alternate file system calls for C.  Then you can compile some UNIX utilitiesN > using the new routines, which will let you see the filesystem.  But it won't  > be visible to things like DIR.  4 But Hoff, just think how *compatible* it would be... spit   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.y@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:20:30 GMTF* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" productsC Message-ID: <y8m18.315255$m05.25634319@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>t  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagee' news:878zaypb8v.fsf@prep.synonet.com...82 > Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes: >rC > > UDF, JFS, ext2fs, etc.  Sticking to ODS-2/ODS-5 may be good foroG > > clustering, but let's say I want a better (faster) file system that B > > doesn't necessarily have to be clustered.  Currently, its moreE > > difficult under VMS because I have to do a driver AND an ACP.  OncF > > Unix, I do the file system driver and mount code.  Oh, and gettingF > > VMS MOUNT to recognize something other than ODS-2/5 or ISO-9660 is > > like jumping on a pin. >hF > And what one is faster than VMS's disk system, used for performance?  I Ext2fs is certainly faster than ODS-2 for some operations, since it playstJ somewhat fast and loose with crash-integrity (depending on fsck to recoverL what it can - usually everything, but no guarantees).  Don't know about JFS,H but making full use of its log for performance optimization *could* make@ many operations faster with no compromise to integrity.  SimilarH possibilities with something like ReiserFS (plus its ability to optimize' directory and small-file access speed).s  I Too bad Compaq doesn't seem interested in devoting the effort required tonJ create a state-of-the-art file system for VMS if indeed it is embarking on1 new file system work as Fred mentioned a bit ago.!   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 01:25:00 -0500r. From: Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com>D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products. Message-ID: <3C466E3C.AA865141@cablespeed.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ) > news:878zaypb8v.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 4 > > Chuck McCrobie <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> writes: > >aE > > > UDF, JFS, ext2fs, etc.  Sticking to ODS-2/ODS-5 may be good for I > > > clustering, but let's say I want a better (faster) file system thattD > > > doesn't necessarily have to be clustered.  Currently, its moreG > > > difficult under VMS because I have to do a driver AND an ACP.  OnkH > > > Unix, I do the file system driver and mount code.  Oh, and gettingH > > > VMS MOUNT to recognize something other than ODS-2/5 or ISO-9660 is > > > like jumping on a pin. > >.H > > And what one is faster than VMS's disk system, used for performance? > K > Ext2fs is certainly faster than ODS-2 for some operations, since it plays L > somewhat fast and loose with crash-integrity (depending on fsck to recoverN > what it can - usually everything, but no guarantees).  Don't know about JFS,J > but making full use of its log for performance optimization *could* makeB > many operations faster with no compromise to integrity.  SimilarJ > possibilities with something like ReiserFS (plus its ability to optimize) > directory and small-file access speed).8 > K > Too bad Compaq doesn't seem interested in devoting the effort required tolL > create a state-of-the-art file system for VMS if indeed it is embarking on3 > new file system work as Fred mentioned a bit ago.w >  > - bill  H There may be many ways of speeding-up ODS-2.  I'm thinking of one calledG "Disk caching Disk" (DCD).  There was a paper presented at Usenix about F the concept.  Of course, it was overly complex because of Unix's blockH size and the ability to fragment blocks, but the concept is very good atA speeding-up synchronous file systems like ODS-2/5.  (AsynchronousaE updates are just plain dangerous and probably not for the VMS crowd. cB Soft-updates are very good, but require changes to the file systemD code.)  The DCD concept does not change even one line of file system% code.  It resides in the disk driver.-  H The idea is to have part of the disk dedicated to block logs.  The blockH log records blocks that have changed.  The writing to various block logsG on the disk is sequential - hence a speed-up.  At some time, each blockaF log is flushed and the blocks in the log go to their "real" sectors onG the disk.  If the OS crashes, the disk + block log ON THE SAME DISK can  be used to recover.   D This would serve a minimum of saving some I/Oseeks to, say, create aE file:  the directory entry, file header, directory header are writtenh> sequentially to the block log instead of three separate seeks.  E Now, actually implementing a DCD driver which can sit on top of a VMSlG disk driver (SCSI, MSCP-served, etc.) might be a relative easy thing toy do...i   Chuck McCrobie -- - ---   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:53:19 -0500e From: CINDY@BILBO.UINDY.EDU 7 Subject: System not see tape drives on a new controller@0 Message-ID: <020116215319.672bd@BILBO.UINDY.EDU>   Hi All,   M We recently purchased an ES40 Alpha. We then purchased a KZPA controller and lI two 20/40 GB Dat tape drives.  We have installed the controller and tape rI drives.  When we power on the system and do a SHOW CONFIG at the console DN prompt the controller PTB0: and the tape drives MKB500:/MKB600: are there and  appear to be ok.  J When we boot to the OS level the controller is present but logging parity ; errors but the tape drive devices are no where to be found.h  I Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this could be happening.  Our aN maintenance contract, which is through a local educational consortium, is not : yet in effect to I can't log a service call at this point.  & Any help would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks.p  M *****************************************************************************aM Cindy Steinmetz                                  E-Mail: steinmetz@.uindy.edunG Director of Administrative Computing Services    System@Bilbo.Uindy.Edu D University of Indianapolis                       Fax: (317) 788-3300J 1400 E Hanna Avenue                              Telephone: (317) 788-3361 Indianapolis, IN  46227-3630M *****************************************************************************eB          In Music there is harmony .... In harmony there is peace.M *****************************************************************************e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:34:26 GMT 4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>* Subject: Re: TCP/IP Services echo service?= Message-ID: <66o18.6354$gf1.32852@news-server.bigpond.net.au>l  L Echo service is available in TCPIP$EXAMPLES.  I think it was placed there in V5.1.    Matt.u   --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporatione Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAn= -------------------------------------------------------------     F "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote in? message news:3C44FE62.7070809@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com...oF > I am attempting to assist in the support of a cross-platform package@ > (Perl's Net::Ping extension) that assumes every working TCP/IPF > implementation has an echo service (name='echo', port=7). All of theI > TCP/IP stacks I have access to do have such a service (including Win2K,aJ > Mac OS X, Linux, and Multinet on OVMS) except Compaq TCP/IP Services forH > OpenVMS, which does not have such a service. It does not appear in theJ > configuration menus in TCPIP$CONFIG.COM, there are no startup proceduresE > for this service in SYS$STARTUP, and of the 10 separate manuals forbH > TCP/IP Services, the 9 of them that have indexes nowhere list the word > "echo" in the index. >mL > The service appears to be entirely absent from the configuration database: >o > TCPIP> show service/port=7* > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found > TCPIP> show service echo* > %TCPIP-W-NORECORD, information not found > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found >e >aH > I thought to check whether the master server (or something else) mightJ > be listening on port 7 and wasn't registered as a named service. It just9 > ain't there in any way, shape, or form that I can find.g >pJ > It looks like I can tell the Net::Ping maintainers one of the following: >rG > 1.) Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS is missing an echo service and-G > will never be fixed; your package will never run on VMS so we'll justa
 > disable it.< >cF > 2.) Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS is currrently missing an echoG > service but is scheduled to be fixed in release x.y-z. [please supply  > values of x, y, and z] >eG > 3.) There is a very good reason that the echo service is missing fromtG > VMS's vendor-supplied IP stack, namely [specify reason here]. InsteadnG > you should use the XYZ service on port NNN, which is guaranteed to betC > pingable on any minimally configured TCP/IP implementation on anyr5 > platform. [and what are the values of XYZ and NNN?]  >h >nG > P.S.  This isn't relevant since I'm already using the latest release,! > but someone will ask, so >H > TCPIP> show version  >pB >    Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 35 >    on a AlphaStation 200 4/233 running OpenVMS V7.3D >eG > P.P.S. It might be an interesting little project to figure out how toCJ > add a custom service to the TCP/IP Services database and have it run oneE > of the many echo programs floating around on the net. However, this I > would not help me at all since what I need is a service that is presente0 > by default on any minimally configured system. >e > TIAo >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:49:04 -0500a- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> 4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: logging of all incoming requests' Message-ID: <3C42FDEF.1E9E968@ohio.edu>l   JF,   D 	I seem to recall that <user> is the state until a username has beenA entered.  You might want to try experiments with letting a telnet ? connection timeout at the username prompt, and see how they are N recorded.  Perhaps the script kiddie is waiting forever for a "login:" prompt?   								RDPi     JF Mezei wrote:- > M > Is there a way to have a single log to see all inbound connection requests,lK > including both the ones that are to known ports/sockets, and to those for6. > which there is no socket/service available ? > P > Ideally, I'd like to be notified if there are consistent attempts to get stuffN > out of my system unsiccesfully, and that includes someone scanning for portsN > that provide services. Having all those come to a single file (or better yetL > mailbox so a detached process can then take actions when too many messages > arrive in a period of time). > M > Also, someone tried to telnet to my system today and ANA/AUDIT won't reveale > the usernames he tried.oM > (the error code is no such user, but the user name displayed is "<user>" ). L > Is there a way to get ana/audit to spew its guts out and tell me ? For FTPN > attempts, it is possible to see that information fronm ana/audit (as well as > the FTP server log file).i > 6 > But Telnet doesn't seem to generate any server logs. > < > I want to know what user names the hackers will be trying.   -- rB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:24:32 -0500x% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> 4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: logging of all incoming requests, Message-ID: <3C466010.99812FC7@videotron.ca>   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:  >  > JF,  > M >         I seem to recall that <user> is the state until a username has beens > entered. c  P If you enter a valid username but invalid password, then the username is listed.  6 But if you enter an invalid username and some passwordM for instance: user^: jarjarbinx with password r2d2,  then the audit will onlyh show <user>n  L I do not know what the reasoning is behind this, but I it would be of use toL know what usernames the script kiddies are trying so that I would know which username NOT to create.   2 The above test was done with telnet. (VAX VMS 7.2)   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 01:51:01 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General Publicp- Message-ID: <87r8oqnq0q.fsf@prep.synonet.com>a  ? wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) writes:o  < > Sounds like a European version of the Cannonball Run.  :-)   Dash, not run... AIR.D  7 "The Cannonball Baker Sea to Shining Sea Memorial Dash"r   -- b< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:22:17 GMTN* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General PublictB Message-ID: <dam18.227004$Yf.13800151@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messages' news:87r8oqnq0q.fsf@prep.synonet.com... A > wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) writes:f >a> > > Sounds like a European version of the Cannonball Run.  :-) >o > Dash, not run... AIR.  >V9 > "The Cannonball Baker Sea to Shining Sea Memorial Dash"d  G That was Brock Yates' Crud&Drivel name for the actual event.  The movie  decided to improve it.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jan 2002 14:09:03 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)l1 Subject: Re: VMS Marketing For the General PublicJ. Message-ID: <ldSBAnK$878A@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  \ In article <87r8oqnq0q.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:A > wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) writes:. > = >> Sounds like a European version of the Cannonball Run.  :-)t >  > Dash, not run... AIR.i > 9 > "The Cannonball Baker Sea to Shining Sea Memorial Dash"  >   ; My mistake.  I guess I was mislead by the movie title.  :-)d   --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxs: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)iO ===============================================================================0N Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:58:24 GMTW) From: martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt)e+ Subject: What has happened to HELP SPECIFY?e8 Message-ID: <3c45f3fe.266167799@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>  C The topic says it all, really. I upgraded from V7.1 to V7.3 on VAX,lB and have just discovered that HELP SPECIFY has gone. When did thisA disappear (V7.2 or V7.3), and why? I always found this useful forrD checking out the syntax of date and time (particularly delta times), for example.   ---e Martin Hunt  Systems Administratore Independent Newspapers Limited
 Wellington New Zealandl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:46:10 -0500r% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>i/ Subject: Re: What has happened to HELP SPECIFY?f, Message-ID: <3C462CE1.B09C6ADA@videotron.ca>   Martin Hunt wrote:D > and have just discovered that HELP SPECIFY has gone. When did thisC > disappear (V7.2 or V7.3), and why? I always found this useful forbF > checking out the syntax of date and time (particularly delta times), > for example.   7.2: HELP SPECIFY fails   L I agree that it was a useful topic. I suspect that the information is hidden( somewhere in the other lowercase topics.  I What would be needed is for a HELP/LOWERCASE to list all topics that haveh& lowercase characters for quick access.   THIS JUST IN:  HELP DCL tips    M The GOTCHA is that "DCL" is all uppercase so the topic doesn't stand out as aF$ "non command specific" help feature.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:04:40 GMTc) From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>bW Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of  compaq )e' Message-ID: <3C45EB0D.D82D789F@ev1.net>8   Charles Shannon Hendrix wrote: > 9 > In article <20020113130550.5b01c771.steveo@eircom.net>, 0 > Steve O'Hara-Smith  <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > % > >       Road works means it doesn'tt. > >       Common sense isn't common or a sense' > >       Hot dogs aren't (usually) dogl$ > >       Trust me (need I say more)& > > and one that puzzled me as a child& > >       Lloyds Bank as your executor > >gN > >       I have long believed that English is a language well evolved for theL > > purpose of shading the truth, saying nothing in many words and providingF > > plausible deniability no matter what was said - in short politics. > 7 > Maybe then it's our language that caused things like:c > % >     central/government intelligencer >     help desks >     software support >     cheap gasn >     reliable car >     absolutely freei >     and friendly firet > * > ..and so on.  We're programmed for it... > > American English is certainly full of euphamisms... You forgot4 "secure the area" and "no user serviceable parts"...  ' Reminds me of the "clean glass" joke...a   -- q? +-------------------------------------------------------------+a? |     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |n? +-------------------------------------------------------------+l   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 17:36:43 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0201161736.59b759fb@posting.google.com>l  h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<R8nvxA7wAGR2@eisner.encompasserve.org>...p > In article <343f30ae.0201151023.3c983681@posting.google.com>, SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) writes:
 > > Hello, > > 6 > > Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories? > >  > G >    Because your software is out of date.  It's been over decade since F >    the ability to go to 16 levels was added via rooted logical names6 >    and a couple years since no-limit ODS-5 came out.  " Well, I guess I was too vague! :-)  D Yes, I know about the rooted logical trick. But you still cannot putF more than eight directory names separated by periods between directoryA brackets. I was asking about *that* limit. Or, if you prefer, whylB can't you go deeper than 16 levels when rooted LNMs are taken into account?   $ DIR [1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8]    ! OKn# $ DIR [1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9]  ! not OK 8 $ DIR [1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11.12.13.14.15.16]  ! not OK   OK?    TIA.  F P.S. Actually, you can go deeper than 16 by renaming the top .DIR of aE directory tree to the bottom of a 16-deep tree. Accessing them may bet problematic, however.    Discalimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane afeldman;gfigroup.com-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 02:00:38 GMTo- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>oB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories* Message-ID: <3C46346D.9020504@qsl.network>   Alan E. Feldman wrote:   > F > Yes, I know about the rooted logical trick. But you still cannot putH > more than eight directory names separated by periods between directoryC > brackets. I was asking about *that* limit. Or, if you prefer, whytD > can't you go deeper than 16 levels when rooted LNMs are taken into
 > account? > ! > $ DIR [1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8]    ! OKc% > $ DIR [1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9]  ! not OKo: > $ DIR [1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11.12.13.14.15.16]  ! not OK     Seems to work just fine.  I EAGLE> dir linux_root:[usr.src.slackware.a.aoutlibs.libc.gcc.config.i386]f  H Directory LINUX_ROOT:[usr.src.SLACKWARE.a.aoutlibs.LIBC.GCC.CONFIG.I386]  D BSD.H;1             GAS.H;1             GSTABS.H;1          I386.H;1H LINUX.H;1           UNIX.H;1            XM-I386.H;1         XM-LINUX.H;1   EAGLE> show sys/noprocI OpenVMS V7.3  on node EAGLE  16-JAN-2002 20:13:37.73  Uptime  46 22:23:54t  H The 8 directory limit is for versions of OpenVMS older than 7.2.  ODS-2 B is still limited to 255 characters for a total path specification.  F I am not aware of the specific reasoning behind the older limitations.   -Johna wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyi   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jan 2002 21:49:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)pB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories3 Message-ID: <or0U0HYOUs13@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  Z In article <3C46346D.9020504@qsl.network>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:  J > The 8 directory limit is for versions of OpenVMS older than 7.2.  ODS-2 D > is still limited to 255 characters for a total path specification. > H > I am not aware of the specific reasoning behind the older limitations.  B $ search sys$library:starlet.req nam$v_wild_sfd,included/match=and   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.031 ************************