0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 32      Contents: Re: 2001 financials  Re: 2001 financials $ Antiword MS Word reader port to VMS?( Re: Antiword MS Word reader port to VMS?( RE: Antiword MS Word reader port to VMS? BACKUP speed RE: BACKUP speed Re: BACKUP speed Re: BACKUP speed0 Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business0 Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellas4 Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellas4 Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellas4 Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellas4 Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - CapellasA Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? A Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected? P Editing multiple files (was [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directorie Re: FTP Success/Failure?; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! 5 How to prevent NFS-client to cache in (virtual)memory 9 Re: How to prevent NFS-client to cache in (virtual)memory 9 Re: How to prevent NFS-client to cache in (virtual)memory ; RE: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of ; Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of > Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq Indexed file loading strategy ! Re: Indexed file loading strategy ! Re: Indexed file loading strategy  Re: Marx  Mother Nature's Best Menu. <Adv>1 Need help with ANAL/ERROR output -- 2 disk errors  OpenVMS and new hardware ?! 6 Re: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & Java6 Re: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & JavaP Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus  experiencedvetP OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus experiencedveteransP Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus experiencedveteP Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versusexperiencedveter Re: Pro merger Re: Pro merger+ RE: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-( + Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-( + Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(  Queue problems Re: raid vs volume shadowing Re: raid vs volume shadowing Re: raid vs volume shadowing Re: raid vs volume shadowing re: raid vs volume shadowing; Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products ! Strange erroir message on VMS box % Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box % Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box % Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box  Re: Strange quorum disk problem 2 Re: System not see tape drives on a new controller2 RE: System not see tape drives on a new controller2 Re: System not see tape drives on a new controller2 Re: System not see tape drives on a new controller$ TCPIP services QIO readvblk question+ Re: TCPIP: logging of all incoming requests  VMS Basic Scalability Question" VMS person looking for a job in UK& Re: What has happened to HELP SPECIFY?) Re: why case independence came into being 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 08:57:30 -0800" From: VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan) Subject: Re: 2001 financials= Message-ID: <d0a53e6e.0201170857.32cd9b4a@posting.google.com>    "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE839@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>... K > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/attachments/4Q01FinancialDiscussion.pdf   F There's some interesting stuff in there.  One thing that jumped out atA me was that they were able to adjust earnings upward by some $222 E million for the year thanks to adoption of new accounting rules under ? EITF 01-9, 'Accounting for Consideration Given by a Vendor to a / Customer or Reseller of the Vendor's Products'.   F My guess is Intel's compensation for the June 25 Alphacide is starting
 to appear. --- 2 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:28:48 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: 2001 financials> Message-ID: <kRD18.81066$Sj1.31981466@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  / "VMS Fan" <VMSfan@hotmail.com> wrote in message 7 news:d0a53e6e.0201170857.32cd9b4a@posting.google.com... 8 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageL news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE839@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net >... > > I http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/pr/attachments/4Q01FinancialDiscussion.pdf  > H > There's some interesting stuff in there.  One thing that jumped out atC > me was that they were able to adjust earnings upward by some $222 G > million for the year thanks to adoption of new accounting rules under A > EITF 01-9, 'Accounting for Consideration Given by a Vendor to a 1 > Customer or Reseller of the Vendor's Products'.  > H > My guess is Intel's compensation for the June 25 Alphacide is starting > to appear.  E Good catch. I'd have to say that your guess is a pretty good one! ;-}   D The Alphacide also contributed to Compaq's 2FQ results. Amazing thatI earnings remained within range of expectations despite a $400M decline in L revenue. Methinks it was the one-time Alpha-related charge that pulled the Q6 out of the red-ink soup in the aforementioned quarter.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:48:33 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> - Subject: Antiword MS Word reader port to VMS? 8 Message-ID: <0lod4u8ocqfvq7drkdsc6go1a86rp0t4bf@4ax.com>  =  I just noticed a post in comp.unix.tru64 regarding a port of @ something called "Antiword" to Tru64. Apparently it was trivial.   Antiword is described as:  Summary:B Antiword is a free MS Word reader for Linux and RISC OS. There areC ports to BeOS, OS/2, Mac OS X, Amiga and DOS. Antiword converts the C binary files from Word 6, 7, 97, 2000 and 2002 to plain text and to  PostScript TM.   On MS Word document readers ? Microsoft Word only exists on platforms supported by Microsoft D itself. On other platforms, reading Microsoft Word files is usually5 difficult, sometimes expensive and often impossible.  F I am busy writing a Microsoft Word reader for Linux and RISC OS. ThisF Microsoft Word reader is called Antiword for reasons explained in the documentation.  @ Antiword is a work in progress and many features are still beingB developed. However, Antiword is usable on all but the most complex Word documents.   A Has anyone used this and/or thought of a VMS port? I'd imagine it C shouldn't be too difficult. In fact might just about compile as is. 9 Before I go and investigate this has anyone else done so?   ( Web site at http://www.winfield.demon.nl -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:37:15 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 1 Subject: Re: Antiword MS Word reader port to VMS? ; Message-ID: <01KD6NAKNCUW8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   > > I just noticed a post in comp.unix.tru64 regarding a port ofB > something called "Antiword" to Tru64. Apparently it was trivial.  
 Check out   >    http://www.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?CATDOC  A This is a unix port (hence the name---on VMS it should be called  E TYPEDOC).  It converts WORD files to plain text.  (There are several  I plain text to PostScript converters.)  It is bare bones, but covers most  E cases when I receive a WORD file on VMS and actually want to read it.   D If Antiword doesn't do more than catdoc, there is no use in doing a  port.    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 17 Jan 02 17:21:51 +100' From: huber@mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) 1 Subject: RE: Antiword MS Word reader port to VMS? * Message-ID: <a26tn1$24s3$1@gwdu67.gwdg.de>  7 In Article <0lod4u8ocqfvq7drkdsc6go1a86rp0t4bf@4ax.com> ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  > > > I just noticed a post in comp.unix.tru64 regarding a port ofA >something called "Antiword" to Tru64. Apparently it was trivial.  >  > ...  > B >Has anyone used this and/or thought of a VMS port? I'd imagine itD >shouldn't be too difficult. In fact might just about compile as is.: >Before I go and investigate this has anyone else done so? > ) >Web site at http://www.winfield.demon.nl  >--  >Alan   L I made a DCL procedure vms_make.com, and at least the word->postscript works2 reasonable. I did not make real extensive tests...  > Look into http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber/pds/antiword_0_31/  G The only small code modifications are in antiword.h and misc.c I think.    --  I This message does not represent the policies of the Max-Planck-Institute. B Joseph "Sepp" Huber, MPI Physik, http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/~huber   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:43:58 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)  Subject: BACKUP speed 0 Message-ID: <a266cu$scl$2@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  N during the transition from a DAT tape library to a SDLT tape library I noticed the following:  K We have a backup account with optimized UAF parameters (at least we believe H it). Our backup procedure generates DCL .COM-files, one for each disk toG backup. Disks reside on VAXen and Alphas. The cluster connection is via L ethernet, 10 MB with the VAXen and 100 MB with the Alphas. The DAT drive was= connected to an Alpha255 (SE-SCSI), the SDL is connected to a O PersonalWorkstation 500au via LVD-SCSI. The SDLT is supposed to be a lot faster I than the DAT DDS-3. Backups run during nighttime. Now what I discover is: O The time required to backup a VAX disk to an SDLT is exactly the same as before O with the DAT. The time to backup an Alpha disk depends on the size of the disk; P smaller disks need the same amount of time as before (4GB disks), huge disks (18I GB, 74 GB) are backed up about 40% faster. None of the disks are directly I connected to the machine doing the backups. To backup 17 GB of a new disk N takes almost two hours with the SDLT, to backup 400 MB of an old disk on a VAX takes 35 minutes.   K How would one explain these results? Is the write speed to the SDLT and the 3 DAT faster than the read speed of an old VAX disk?     Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:19:55 +0100 7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>  Subject: RE: BACKUP speed O Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6BEE@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>    Hi,   ? The backup speed across a network depends on the networkspeed,  G the speed of conversion from VAX to Alpha, read speed of the tapeunit,  G the busspeed from the SCSI controller to the tapeunit and the busspeed  ) of from the SCSI controller to the disks.   J I see no speed problems with the 100 MB ethernetwork or with SCSI speeds, L but the VAX to Alpha conversion and the 10 Mb ethernetwork could be problem.  > To win some time try a VAX disk to Alpha disk backup and then F backup the VAXsaveset from a alpha disk to the fast SDLT tape library.  > If you don't do it already use one tape per system or cluster.A That makes your live a lot easier when you need to recover after   a disaster.     ? > during the transition from a DAT tape library to a SDLT tape   > library I noticed  > the following: > = > We have a backup account with optimized UAF parameters (at   > least we believe> > it). Our backup procedure generates DCL .COM-files, one for  > each disk to8 > backup. Disks reside on VAXen and Alphas. The cluster  > connection is via = > ethernet, 10 MB with the VAXen and 100 MB with the Alphas.   > The DAT drive was ? > connected to an Alpha255 (SE-SCSI), the SDL is connected to a ? > PersonalWorkstation 500au via LVD-SCSI. The SDLT is supposed   > to be a lot faster? > than the DAT DDS-3. Backups run during nighttime. Now what I   > discover is:? > The time required to backup a VAX disk to an SDLT is exactly   > the same as before@ > with the DAT. The time to backup an Alpha disk depends on the  > size of the disk; < > smaller disks need the same amount of time as before (4GB  > disks), huge disks (18? > GB, 74 GB) are backed up about 40% faster. None of the disks   > are directly> > connected to the machine doing the backups. To backup 17 GB  > of a new disk ? > takes almost two hours with the SDLT, to backup 400 MB of an   > old disk on a VAX  > takes 35 minutes.  > = > How would one explain these results? Is the write speed to   > the SDLT and the5 > DAT faster than the read speed of an old VAX disk?   > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  >  > --  J > +----------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+ >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:22:08 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>  Subject: Re: BACKUP speed ' Message-ID: <3C46A5D0.8789D1B5@aaa.com>   3 On 10 Mbit/s you get, aprox, 500 Kbytes/s throuput. 0 To move 400MB at 500Kb/s takes aprox 14 minutes.1 With other overhead, 35 minutes seems not to bad.   3 Doesn't matter much what tape drive you use, or how   fast the disks are in the VAX...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Christoph Gartmann wrote:  > - > ...to backup 400 MB of an old disk on a VAX  > takes 35 minutes.  > M > How would one explain these results? Is the write speed to the SDLT and the 4 > DAT faster than the read speed of an old VAX disk? > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 06:14 CSTX' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: BACKUP speedn- Message-ID: <17JAN200206141795@gerg.tamu.edu>d  " gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de writes...O }during the transition from a DAT tape library to a SDLT tape library I noticed  }the following:  } L }We have a backup account with optimized UAF parameters (at least we believeI }it). Our backup procedure generates DCL .COM-files, one for each disk tooH }backup. Disks reside on VAXen and Alphas. The cluster connection is viaM }ethernet, 10 MB with the VAXen and 100 MB with the Alphas. The DAT drive wasG> }connected to an Alpha255 (SE-SCSI), the SDL is connected to aP }PersonalWorkstation 500au via LVD-SCSI. The SDLT is supposed to be a lot fasterJ }than the DAT DDS-3. Backups run during nighttime. Now what I discover is:P }The time required to backup a VAX disk to an SDLT is exactly the same as beforeP }with the DAT. The time to backup an Alpha disk depends on the size of the disk;Q }smaller disks need the same amount of time as before (4GB disks), huge disks (18oJ }GB, 74 GB) are backed up about 40% faster. None of the disks are directlyJ }connected to the machine doing the backups. To backup 17 GB of a new diskO }takes almost two hours with the SDLT, to backup 400 MB of an old disk on a VAXd }takes 35 minutes. } L }How would one explain these results? Is the write speed to the SDLT and the4 }DAT faster than the read speed of an old VAX disk?  } 	 }Regards,  }   Christoph Gartmann  A An old disk on a VAX can easily have a maximum data transfer rateVB of less than 2MB/sec, possibly less than 1.5MB.sec if it is reallyB old. Is this the only activity the disk sees during the backup? Is> the data on the disk badly fragmented, inducing excessive headA movement? Is it a lot of little files (this can also induce a loteA of head movement as they are not likely to be in sequential order  on the disk) or large files?  B What is the nature of the ethernet at the VAX end? Thinwire sharedC with other old systems? Fully switched (i.e. one system per port onn? a switch)? On a shared thinwire network I used to average a bitsA over 700KB/sec to a DAT drive during off hours (this is about thepA average transfer speed to the tape with compression for the drivepE I was using - it would only stop streaming maybe every 5-10 minutes). C Currently, over a fully switched 10/100 network I generally averageeD over 1 MB/sec (perhaps 1.1MB/sec) when backing up a disk on a system+ connected via a 10Mb half duplex interface.n  G There is also the question of "does that 35 min. include a verificationsG pass and a backup date recoring pass?" If so, this is not necessarily aeE surprising result, although it may be possible to speed it up a lot -nC possibly even by as much as a factor of 2 by something as simple asCH defragmenting the disk (especially if you use the "backup, reinitialize,H restore" method, as that will lay out the files on the disk in the orderF they are on the tape, which will be the same order they are backued upI the next time, barring any changes, reducing head movement considerably).s  C But yes, a modern DAT is faster than an old disk (a DDS4 drive withuH compaction enabled and getting 2:1 transfers data to tape at 4.8MB/sec).B A SDLT is even faster than that. A modern disk drive, on the other@ hand, can easily exceed either of them - the fastest spec I haveB seen was well over 40MB/sec at the fast end of the disk (I seem to@ recall one or more that was over 50MB/sec, but I'm not certain).  ? Almost any disk that is 18Gb or more should have a maximum datarD transfer rate that is in excess of 6MB/sec, or probably over 8MB/secF for a 7200RPM drive, at the fast end of the disk (and they could be atE least 50% higher than that). The older 4GB drives are probably aroundtA the vicinity of 3 MB/sec maximum transfer rate. The old DAT drive D presumably was getting somewhere in the 2-3 MB/sec range (I think itD is 2.4MB/sec for DDS-3 with compaction enabled and getting 2:1, i.e.? half the speed of the DDS-4 drive I use). This would tend to ber? at or a bit over the maximum speed those 4GB drives can manage,a@ on average (realistically, rather than just going by the maximum@ transfer rate from the media at the fast end of the disk), but a: lot less than the newer larger & faster drives can manage.  A For fast modern drives, even a 100Mb network will be the limiting H factor (at maybe a little over 10MB/sec if you are lucky), not the disk.   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 06:46:12 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) 9 Subject: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today-3 Message-ID: <AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org>2  0 The latest memo from Bill Gates can be found at:  1 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23715.html6  A According to him, no Trustworthy Computing platform exists today.i  < Here's some extracts from his memo, my comments are in []'s.   -----Original Message----- . From: Bill Gates  ( Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:22 PM ( To: Microsoft and Subsidiaries: All FTE  Subject: Trustworthy computing .  K However, even more important than any of these new capabilities is the factpO that it is designed from the ground up to deliver Trustworthy Computing. What IeN mean by this is that customers will always be able to rely on these systems toF be available and to secure their information. Trustworthy Computing isI computing that is as available, reliable and secure as electricity, watero services and telephony.   " [Sounds like a VMS cluster to me.]  J Today, in the developed world, we do not worry about electricity and waterN services being available. With telephony, we rely both on its availability andM its security for conducting highly confidential business transactions withouteO worrying that information about who we call or what we say will be compromised.KN Computing falls well short of this, ranging from the individual user who isn'tN willing to add a new application because it might destabilize their system, toO a corporation that moves slowly to embrace e-business because today's platformsi don't make the grade.   L [What you mean Bill, is that _Microsoft_ computing falls well short of this]  
 Microsoft and L the computer industry will only succeed in that world if CIOs, consumers andH everyone else sees that Microsoft has created a platform for Trustworthy Computing.    N [You arrogant person. So a platform is not trustworthy if it's not a Microsoft one ?]  O Every week there are reports of newly discovered security problems in all kindstN of software, from individual applications and services to Windows, Linux, UnixM and other platforms. We have done a great job of having teams work around theeO clock to deliver security fixes for any problems that arise. Our responsivenessQN has been unmatched -- but as an industry leader we can and must do better. OurK new design approaches need to dramatically reduce the number of such issuesiK that come up in the software that Microsoft, its partners and its customers0 create.f  K [Yes, Bill, but what's the ratio of problems on your systems to problems one other systems ?]  L No Trustworthy Computing platform exists today. It is only in the context ofM the basic redesign we have done around .NET that we can achieve this. The keyCO design decisions we made around .NET include the advances we need to deliver onhH this vision. Visual Studio .NET is the first multi-language tool that isN optimized for the creation of secure code, so it is a key foundation element.   N [This is the key paragraph that _really_ got me annoyed. Trustworthy ComputingH platforms certainly do exist today. I also _really_ hate the way that he8 says that you need .NET to create a trustworthy system.]  M [He then goes on to list what trustworthy systems should do. Read the article E if you want the list, but it's generally everything that a VMS systemr& manager/developer is already used to.]  H Trustworthiness is a much broader concept than security, and winning ourO customers' trust involves more than just fixing bugs and achieving "five-nines"iJ availability. It's a fundamental challenge that spans the entire computingN ecosystem, from individual chips all the way to global Internet services. It's> about smart software, services and industry-wide cooperation.   N [This annoys me as well. He seems to be saying that you need an infrastructureI in place to handle trustworthy computing, which is true, but implies thatNE it is something that Microsoft has to lead the way in achieving. Whatm> precisely does he think that current Enterprise vendors do ? ]  F This priority touches on all the software work we do. By delivering onL Trustworthy Computing, customers will get dramatically more value out of ourM advances than they have in the past. The challenge here is one that Microsoftt is uniquely suited to solve. i   Bill    / [Just what makes Microsoft "uniquely suited" ?]r   Simon.   -- hG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       w+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:00:47 -0500a% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>p= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today , Message-ID: <3C46CADA.EA53759E@videotron.ca>  M Can you imagine if Compaq weren't such a slave of Microsoft, the field day it.L could have with this memo and how it could market VMS as "VMS has had it forL decades, Microsoft is only now waking up to this need". type of statements ?   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:53:37 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones).= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todays: Message-ID: <a26l11$igr$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  4 In message: <AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org>,G >This priority touches on all the software work we do. By delivering oneM >Trustworthy Computing, customers will get dramatically more value out of oureN >advances than they have in the past. The challenge here is one that Microsoft >is uniquely suited to solve.  >s >Bille >e0 >[Just what makes Microsoft "uniquely suited" ?]  H The paragraph is talking about advances to Microsoft software, of courseH they are uniquely suited to make those advances.  Anybody else trying toE advance Microsoft software has licensing issues that Microsoft itself  doesn't.      < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:lL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.k   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:28:06 GMTe# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> = Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todayE> Message-ID: <WbB18.206705$pa1.56811437@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  H So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxes for retail sale as "WindowsVMS"?  L It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in the existing Windows-family o/s  % MSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.h        L "Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote in5 message news:AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org...s2 > The latest memo from Bill Gates can be found at: >f3 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23715.htmli >tC > According to him, no Trustworthy Computing platform exists today.t >h> > Here's some extracts from his memo, my comments are in []'s. >  > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gates) > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:22 PMt) > To: Microsoft and Subsidiaries: All FTE   > Subject: Trustworthy computing >-H > However, even more important than any of these new capabilities is the factJ > that it is designed from the ground up to deliver Trustworthy Computing. What IE > mean by this is that customers will always be able to rely on these 
 systems toH > be available and to secure their information. Trustworthy Computing isK > computing that is as available, reliable and secure as electricity, waterm > services and telephony.m >-$ > [Sounds like a VMS cluster to me.] >-L > Today, in the developed world, we do not worry about electricity and waterL > services being available. With telephony, we rely both on its availability and1G > its security for conducting highly confidential business transactionse without D > worrying that information about who we call or what we say will be compromised.J > Computing falls well short of this, ranging from the individual user who isn'tiE > willing to add a new application because it might destabilize theire
 system, toG > a corporation that moves slowly to embrace e-business because today'so	 platformse > don't make the grade.n >oH > [What you mean Bill, is that _Microsoft_ computing falls well short of this]t >  > Microsoft andaJ > the computer industry will only succeed in that world if CIOs, consumers andaJ > everyone else sees that Microsoft has created a platform for Trustworthy > Computing. >cF > [You arrogant person. So a platform is not trustworthy if it's not a	 Microsofta > one ?] > K > Every week there are reports of newly discovered security problems in allp kinds K > of software, from individual applications and services to Windows, Linux,e UnixK > and other platforms. We have done a great job of having teams work aroundh thehB > clock to deliver security fixes for any problems that arise. Our responsivenessL > has been unmatched -- but as an industry leader we can and must do better. OursF > new design approaches need to dramatically reduce the number of such issuesC > that come up in the software that Microsoft, its partners and itsg	 customers 	 > create.  >cJ > [Yes, Bill, but what's the ratio of problems on your systems to problems on > other systems ?] >hK > No Trustworthy Computing platform exists today. It is only in the contextk ofK > the basic redesign we have done around .NET that we can achieve this. Thed key(F > design decisions we made around .NET include the advances we need to
 deliver onJ > this vision. Visual Studio .NET is the first multi-language tool that isF > optimized for the creation of secure code, so it is a key foundation element. >oF > [This is the key paragraph that _really_ got me annoyed. Trustworthy	 ComputingrJ > platforms certainly do exist today. I also _really_ hate the way that he: > says that you need .NET to create a trustworthy system.] > G > [He then goes on to list what trustworthy systems should do. Read the- article G > if you want the list, but it's generally everything that a VMS system ( > manager/developer is already used to.] > J > Trustworthiness is a much broader concept than security, and winning ourD > customers' trust involves more than just fixing bugs and achieving "five-nines"L > availability. It's a fundamental challenge that spans the entire computingK > ecosystem, from individual chips all the way to global Internet services.  It's? > about smart software, services and industry-wide cooperation.a >cA > [This annoys me as well. He seems to be saying that you need ana infrastructureK > in place to handle trustworthy computing, which is true, but implies thatsG > it is something that Microsoft has to lead the way in achieving. What @ > precisely does he think that current Enterprise vendors do ? ] >aH > This priority touches on all the software work we do. By delivering onJ > Trustworthy Computing, customers will get dramatically more value out of our E > advances than they have in the past. The challenge here is one that 	 Microsoftt > is uniquely suited to solve. >X > Bill > 1 > [Just what makes Microsoft "uniquely suited" ?]- >- > Simon. >- > --B > Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.|   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:15:14 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today > Message-ID: <6UB18.81003$Sj1.31915184@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message8 news:WbB18.206705$pa1.56811437@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...J > So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxes for > retail sale as "WindowsVMS"? >rJ > It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in the existing Windows-family o/s  > ' > MSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.i  4 First off, Compaq's gotta be willing to sell the OS.  J Second, there's the matter of porting the OS to a mainstream platform. TheF VMS-to-IPF port is nowhere near a done deal yet, nor is affordable IPFC hardware. Until a "player" for the OS exists, WindowsVMS would be at( CompactFlash module in an 8-track world.  J Third, porting the OS itself would be trivial in comparison to porting all the current Windoze apps...u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:22:52 -0700.+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>c= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today ' Message-ID: <3C46FA5C.5070104@mmaz.com>.  & --------------0408090909080307000502029 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowedn Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith   John Smith wrote:7  I >So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxes fort >retail sale as "WindowsVMS"?k >.M >It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in the existing Windows-family o/sp >0& >MSLP $499, dealers may sell for less. >uG We can all agree that Billy-Boy produces an inferior OS to VMS, but he  E does know marketing [BKM: Billy Knows Marketing :-) ] whereas Compaq   seem to be clueless about this.n  E Could you imagine the possibilities if MS applied their monopolistic fG strong-arm tactics to place VMS into the market and grow market share?  
  Humm...       Barryt   >s >e >d >n >hM >"Simon Clubley" <simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP> wrote ino6 >message news:AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org... > 2 >>The latest memo from Bill Gates can be found at: >>3 >>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23715.htmlt >>C >>According to him, no Trustworthy Computing platform exists today.r >>> >>Here's some extracts from his memo, my comments are in []'s. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bill Gates) >>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:22 PMf) >>To: Microsoft and Subsidiaries: All FTEr  >>Subject: Trustworthy computing >>H >>However, even more important than any of these new capabilities is the >> >fact  >rJ >>that it is designed from the ground up to deliver Trustworthy Computing. >> >What I1 >BE >>mean by this is that customers will always be able to rely on thesel >> >systems to  >rH >>be available and to secure their information. Trustworthy Computing isK >>computing that is as available, reliable and secure as electricity, wateri >>services and telephony.b >>$ >>[Sounds like a VMS cluster to me.] >>L >>Today, in the developed world, we do not worry about electricity and waterL >>services being available. With telephony, we rely both on its availability >> >and >uG >>its security for conducting highly confidential business transactions  >> >without >eD >>worrying that information about who we call or what we say will be >>
 >compromised.) > J >>Computing falls well short of this, ranging from the individual user who >> >isn't >aE >>willing to add a new application because it might destabilize theirs >> >system, tom >rG >>a corporation that moves slowly to embrace e-business because today'sf >>
 >platforms >  >>don't make the grade.e >>H >>[What you mean Bill, is that _Microsoft_ computing falls well short of >> >this] >n >>Microsoft andlJ >>the computer industry will only succeed in that world if CIOs, consumers >> >and >eJ >>everyone else sees that Microsoft has created a platform for Trustworthy >>Computing. >>F >>[You arrogant person. So a platform is not trustworthy if it's not a >>
 >Microsoft >t >>one ?] >>K >>Every week there are reports of newly discovered security problems in allg >> >kinds >hK >>of software, from individual applications and services to Windows, Linux,d >> >Unixg >1K >>and other platforms. We have done a great job of having teams work aroundo >> >the >tB >>clock to deliver security fixes for any problems that arise. Our >> >responsivenesss >oL >>has been unmatched -- but as an industry leader we can and must do better. >> >Our >eF >>new design approaches need to dramatically reduce the number of such >> >issuesa >0C >>that come up in the software that Microsoft, its partners and its/ >>
 >customers >y	 >>create.d >>J >>[Yes, Bill, but what's the ratio of problems on your systems to problems >> >onr >  >>other systems ?] >>K >>No Trustworthy Computing platform exists today. It is only in the contexth >> >ofm >iK >>the basic redesign we have done around .NET that we can achieve this. Thet >> >key >lF >>design decisions we made around .NET include the advances we need to >> >deliver onn >oJ >>this vision. Visual Studio .NET is the first multi-language tool that isF >>optimized for the creation of secure code, so it is a key foundation >>	 >element.G >sF >>[This is the key paragraph that _really_ got me annoyed. Trustworthy >>
 >Computing >jJ >>platforms certainly do exist today. I also _really_ hate the way that he: >>says that you need .NET to create a trustworthy system.] >>G >>[He then goes on to list what trustworthy systems should do. Read thec >> >article >aG >>if you want the list, but it's generally everything that a VMS systemi( >>manager/developer is already used to.] >>J >>Trustworthiness is a much broader concept than security, and winning ourD >>customers' trust involves more than just fixing bugs and achieving >>
 >"five-nines"w >oL >>availability. It's a fundamental challenge that spans the entire computingK >>ecosystem, from individual chips all the way to global Internet services.c >> >It's  >i? >>about smart software, services and industry-wide cooperation.e >>A >>[This annoys me as well. He seems to be saying that you need ano >> >infrastructuret >iK >>in place to handle trustworthy computing, which is true, but implies thateG >>it is something that Microsoft has to lead the way in achieving. Whatb@ >>precisely does he think that current Enterprise vendors do ? ] >>H >>This priority touches on all the software work we do. By delivering onJ >>Trustworthy Computing, customers will get dramatically more value out of >> >our >dE >>advances than they have in the past. The challenge here is one thatt >>
 >Microsoft >  >>is uniquely suited to solve. >> >>Bill >>1 >>[Just what makes Microsoft "uniquely suited" ?]k >> >>Simon. >> >>--B >>Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP- >>Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.L >> >n >  >    -- l  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028o      & --------------040809090908030700050202) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciir Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitr   <html> <head> </head>r <body> John Smith wrote:<br>iT <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:WbB18.206705$pa1.56811437@news3.rdc1.on.home.com">   <pre wrap="">So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxes for<br>retail sale as "WindowsVMS"?<br><br>It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in the existing Windows-family o/s<br><br>MSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.</pre>   </blockquote>oK We can all agree that Billy-Boy produces an inferior OS to VMS, but he doesdJ know marketing [BKM: Billy Knows Marketing :-) ] whereas Compaq seem to be clueless about this.<br>   <br>O Could you imagine the possibilities if MS applied their monopolistic strong-armuT tactics to place VMS into the market and grow market share? &nbsp;Humm... &nbsp;<br>   <br>   <br>	 Barry<br>.   <br>V   <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:WbB18.206705$pa1.56811437@news3.rdc1.on.home.com">v    <pre wrap=""><br><br><br><br><br>"Simon Clubley" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP">&lt;simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP&gt;</a> wrote in<br>message <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org">news:AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org</a>...<br></pre>     <blockquote type="cite">       <pre wrap="">The latest memo from Bill Gates can be found at:<br><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23715.html">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23715.html</a><br><br>According to him, no Trustworthy Computing platform exists today.<br><br>Here's some extracts from his memo, my comments are in []'s.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Bill Gates<br>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:22 PM<br>To: Microsoft and Subsidiaries: All FTE<br>Subject: m Trustworthy computing<br><br>However, even more important than any of these new capabilities is the<br></pre>r       </blockquote>u(       <pre wrap=""><!---->fact<br></pre>       <blockquote type="cite">g         <pre wrap="">that it is designed from the ground up to deliver Trustworthy Computing.<br></pre>f         </blockquote>u,         <pre wrap=""><!---->What I<br></pre>          <blockquote type="cite">d           <pre wrap="">mean by this is that customers will always be able to rely on these<br></pre>           </blockquote>32           <pre wrap=""><!---->systems to<br></pre>"           <blockquote type="cite">            <pre wrap="">be available and to secure their information. Trustworthy Computing is<br>computing that is as available, reliable and secure as electricity, water<br>services and telephony.<br><br>[Sounds like a VMS cluster to me.]<br><br>Today, in the developed world, we do not worry about electricity and water<br>services being available. With telephony, we rely both on its availability<br></pre>-             </blockquote>A-             <pre wrap=""><!---->and<br></pre>r$             <blockquote type="cite">j               <pre wrap="">its security for conducting highly confidential business transactions<br></pre>               </blockquote>h3               <pre wrap=""><!---->without<br></pre> &               <blockquote type="cite">i                 <pre wrap="">worrying that information about who we call or what we say will be<br></pre>t                 </blockquote>u:                 <pre wrap=""><!---->compromised.<br></pre>(                 <blockquote type="cite">q                   <pre wrap="">Computing falls well short of this, ranging from the individual user who<br></pre>o                   </blockquote>n5                   <pre wrap=""><!---->isn't<br></pre>j*                   <blockquote type="cite">n                     <pre wrap="">willing to add a new application because it might destabilize their<br></pre>!                     </blockquote>,<                     <pre wrap=""><!---->system, to<br></pre>,                     <blockquote type="cite">r                       <pre wrap="">a corporation that moves slowly to embrace e-business because today's<br></pre>#                       </blockquote>x=                       <pre wrap=""><!---->platforms<br></pre>x.                       <blockquote type="cite">                         <pre wrap="">don't make the grade.<br><br>[What you mean Bill, is that _Microsoft_ computing falls well short of<br></pre>%                         </blockquote>s;                         <pre wrap=""><!---->this]<br></pre>t0                         <blockquote type="cite">                           <pre wrap="">Microsoft and<br>the computer industry will only succeed in that world if CIOs, consumers<br></pre>'                           </blockquote>m;                           <pre wrap=""><!---->and<br></pre>o2                           <blockquote type="cite">                             <pre wrap="">everyone else sees that Microsoft has created a platform for Trustworthy<br>Computing.<br><br>[You arrogant person. So a platform is not trustworthy if it's not a<br></pre>s)                             </blockquote> C                             <pre wrap=""><!---->Microsoft<br></pre>r4                             <blockquote type="cite">                               <pre wrap="">one ?]<br><br>Every week there are reports of newly discovered security problems in all<br></pre>+                               </blockquote>wA                               <pre wrap=""><!---->kinds<br></pre>t6                               <blockquote type="cite">                                 <pre wrap="">of software, from individual applications and services to Windows, Linux,<br></pre>-                                 </blockquote>nB                                 <pre wrap=""><!---->Unix<br></pre>8                                 <blockquote type="cite">                                   <pre wrap="">and other platforms. We have done a great job of having teams work around<br></pre>/                                   </blockquote>rC                                   <pre wrap=""><!---->the<br></pre> :                                   <blockquote type="cite">{                                     <pre wrap="">clock to deliver security fixes for any problems that arise. Our<br></pre>t1                                     </blockquote> P                                     <pre wrap=""><!---->responsiveness<br></pre><                                     <blockquote type="cite">                                       <pre wrap="">has been unmatched -- but as an industry leader we can and must do better.<br></pre>t3                                       </blockquote>eG                                       <pre wrap=""><!---->Our<br></pre>b>                                       <blockquote type="cite">                                         <pre wrap="">new design approaches need to dramatically reduce the number of such<br></pre>s5                                         </blockquote>sL                                         <pre wrap=""><!---->issues<br></pre>@                                         <blockquote type="cite">                                           <pre wrap="">that come up in the software that Microsoft, its partners and its<br></pre>7                                           </blockquote>fQ                                           <pre wrap=""><!---->customers<br></pre>tB                                           <blockquote type="cite">                                             <pre wrap="">create.<br><br>[Yes, Bill, but what's the ratio of problems on your systems to problems<br></pre>9                                             </blockquote>iL                                             <pre wrap=""><!---->on<br></pre>D                                             <blockquote type="cite">                                               <pre wrap="">other systems ?]<br><br>No Trustworthy Computing platform exists today. It is only in the context<br></pre>;                                               </blockquote>aN                                               <pre wrap=""><!---->of<br></pre>F                                               <blockquote type="cite">                                                 <pre wrap="">the basic redesign we have done around .NET that we can achieve this. The<br></pre>=                                                 </blockquote>iQ                                                 <pre wrap=""><!---->key<br></pre>sH                                                 <blockquote type="cite">                                                   <pre wrap="">design decisions we made around .NET include the advances we need to<br></pre>c?                                                   </blockquote>iZ                                                   <pre wrap=""><!---->deliver on<br></pre>J                                                   <blockquote type="cite">                                                     <pre wrap="">this vision. Visual Studio .NET is the first multi-language tool that is<br>optimized for the creation of secure code, so it is a key foundation<br></pre>:A                                                     </blockquote>BZ                                                     <pre wrap=""><!---->element.<br></pre>L                                                     <blockquote type="cite">                                                       <pre wrap="">[This is the key paragraph that _really_ got me annoyed. Trustworthy<br></pre>eC                                                       </blockquote> ]                                                       <pre wrap=""><!---->Computing<br></pre> N                                                       <blockquote type="cite">                                                         <pre wrap="">platforms certainly do exist today. I also _really_ hate the way that he<br>says that you need .NET to create a trustworthy system.]<br><br>[He then goes on to list what trustworthy systems should do. Read the<br></pre>E                                                         </blockquote>T]                                                         <pre wrap=""><!---->article<br></pre>3P                                                         <blockquote type="cite">V                                                          <pre wrap="">if you want the list, but it's generally everything that a VMS system<br>manager/developer is already used to.]<br><br>Trustworthiness is a much broader concept than security, and winning our<br>customers' trust involves more than just fixing bugs and achieving<br></pre>G                                                           </blockquote> d                                                           <pre wrap=""><!---->"five-nines"<br></pre>R                                                           <blockquote type="cite">                                                             <pre wrap="">availability. It's a fundamental challenge that spans the entire computing<br>ecosystem, from individual chips all the way to global Internet services.<br></pre>I                                                             </blockquote> ^                                                             <pre wrap=""><!---->It's<br></pre>T                                                             <blockquote type="cite">                                                               <pre wrap="">about smart software, services and industry-wide cooperation.<br><br>[This annoys me as well. He seems to be saying that you need an<br></pre>rK                                                               </blockquote>dj                                                               <pre wrap=""><!---->infrastructure<br></pre>V                                                               <blockquote type="cite">                                                                <pre wrap="">in place to handle trustworthy computing, which is true, but implies that<br>it is something that Microsoft has to lead the way in achieving. What<br>precisely does he think that current Enterprise vendors do ? ]<br><br>This priority touches on all the software work we do. By delivering on<br>Trustworthy Computing, customers will get dramatically more value out of<br></pre>tM                                                                 </blockquote> a                                                                 <pre wrap=""><!---->our<br></pre> X                                                                 <blockquote type="cite">                                                                   <pre wrap="">advances than they have in the past. The challenge here is one that<br></pre>O                                                                   </blockquote>ri                                                                   <pre wrap=""><!---->Microsoft<br></pre>rZ                                                                   <blockquote type="cite">                                                                    <pre wrap="">is uniquely suited to solve.<br><br>Bill<br><br>[Just what makes Microsoft "uniquely suited" ?]<br><br>Simon.<br><br>--<br>Simon Clubley, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP">simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP</a><br>Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.<br></pre>sQ                                                                     </blockquote>tj                                                                     <pre wrap=""><!----><br><br><br></pre>Q                                                                     </blockquote>sH                                                                     <br>v                                                                     <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--   D Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President &amp; CIO    E-mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com">Treahy@mmaz.com</a> * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028</pre>eH                                                                     <br>K                                                                     </body>cK                                                                     </html>a  ( --------------040809090908030700050202--   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:34:39 GMTy4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todaya> Message-ID: <z2D18.81058$Sj1.31956321@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message! news:3C46FA5C.5070104@mmaz.com...s John Smith wrote:   D So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxesK forretail sale as "WindowsVMS"?It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in D the existing Windows-family o/sMSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.  K We can all agree that Billy-Boy produces an inferior OS to VMS, but he doestJ know marketing [BKM: Billy Knows Marketing :-) ] whereas Compaq seem to be clueless about this.  D Could you imagine the possibilities if MS applied their monopolisticF strong-arm tactics to place VMS into the market and grow market share? Humm...g  ! A frightening thought indeed! ;-}>   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:06:29 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> = Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todayv; Message-ID: <01KD6RIISLRU8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>c  F > So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxesJ > forretail sale as "WindowsVMS"?It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flawsJ > in the existing Windows-family o/sMSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.   G People seem to forget that Bill Gates made his fortune through LACK of sI quality.  Collections of patches are passed up as upgrades.  A friend of  I mine was thoroughly flabbergasted when he heard that patches (bug fixes)  I are available for free download for VMS.  What?!  They don't bundle them oG into a new release and force you to buy that or live with the problems?cG On a related note, he was just as amazed that more than one version of eF VMS is currently maintained.  That's the software side.  The software A becomes so bloated with time, however, that people are forced to SG continually upgrade their hardware.  Better written code would be more r
 efficient.  A Thus, VMS doesn't fit into Bill's business model at all.  (Well,  G indirectly he relies on the VMS machines which run the production line s at the Intel fab.  :-)  )   D Financially, the revenues from VMS, even if the market were greatly E expanded, are verz small to him (check out this page for interesting e5 tidbits: http://www.templetons.com/brad/billg.html ).m  8 I for one would be happy if VMS did NOT go to Microsoft!  H It's interesting to look at the discussion here in the past few years.  I For a long time, folks demanded VMS on Intel.  Now that it is announced, "E many folks don't want it---even some of the same folks.  OK, Itanium  E isn't mass-market and hence cheap and widespread (the motivation for -D wanting VMS on Intel), but let's face it---up until now, the Wintel G alliance has forced users to move to hardware which is MUCH, MUCH more nI powerful than they really need.  The same will probably hold true in the .A future, moving folks to Itanium.  (Also, of course, if Hammer or .C whatever won't run Itanium binaries, people won't have a choice if sE Microsoft chooses Itanium, which will probably lead to the demise of r Hammer.)  H Personally, I don't care what the hardware is, and if the engineers say H they can do the port and have the resources, then it will be done.  VMS G then no longer depends on ALPHA.  The thing I am more worried about is ,I that hardware, compilers, operating system, networking etc are all being aA developed at different companies, whereas in the past one of the  F strengths of DEC was the fact that all the developers knew each other C and this synergy made the whole much more than just the sum of the p parts.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:12:51 +0100 (MET)y9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>h= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today ; Message-ID: <01KD6STDC51S8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>>  I > People seem to forget that Bill Gates made his fortune through LACK of aK > quality.  Collections of patches are passed up as upgrades.  A friend of q  F Passed OFF, of course (though I am sure there are some users who pass 	 them up).e   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 14:59:13 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)tG Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for thes, Message-ID: <a26os1$2s4m$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  . In article <mddu1tl7vam.fsf@panix3.panix.com>,0  Rich Alderson <alderson+news@panix.com> writes: |>  Q |> They were successful enough that IBM provided first an emulator product (added O |> hardware) for the 360, and later a simulator (software) product for the 370;   K  For those who really mis it, Bob Supnik (a name that should be familiar tog? long term DECies) stil has a 1401 emulator in his SIMH package.   R |>                                                                              atQ |> the University of Chicago, many parts of the accounting system were still 1401oP |> code from the early 1960s until autumn 1982, when my office mate finished herA |> project of documenting the uncommented Autocoder listings. [1]  |>  Q |> Besides, they were successful in another way:  I first learned to program on arQ |> 1401 with FORTRAN IV.  If not for that, I'd not be where I am today, and you'dc0 |> not have the opportunity to read this screed.  N I never saw anything but Autocoder and machine language on the 1401.  I workedN with one at KAD in Germany back in 71-72.  I wouldn't have thought the machine& could even support a Fortran compiler.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:16:03 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessn8 Message-ID: <5v3d4us8i3fmslfeje4armk14lhhsmk5qo@4ax.com>  F On 16 Jan 2002 12:32:14 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  p >In article <b2faac46.0201160649.7bd4498b@posting.google.com>, on_the_move4ever@yahoo.com (Rick Nickles) writes:F >> NT IS VMS in a sense, I don't know where you are coming from.  Dave >> Cutler wrote both systems >a> >   Dave Culter did not write RSX, VMS, or NT.  He probably isD >   responsible for similarities in the I/O subsystem.  NT certainly% >   has gained nothing else from VMS.k   Bob,  @ You should read "Showstopper". It's partly a biography of NT andC partly a biography of Cutler himself.  It's an educational read andgE should have been compulsory for DEC lawyers. Cutler did write most of D the NT kernel himself astonishing the Microsofties. Most of the rest7 of the core NT team Cutler also took with him from DEC.e  D On several occasions members of VMS engineering who have seen the NT< kernel have described it as obviously VMS reimplemented with
 hindsight.  E As far as I have read Cutler was responsible for virtually the entire E RSX design and a huge chunk of the VMS design. Long after Cutler left-> active VMS development he continued to contribute code. On oneF occasion apparently turning up in VMS engineering with several feet ofC VMS source code with thousands of line of the bones of the SMP code>D pencilled in. This apparently did form the basis for the SMP changesC even though Cutler was not the final author. Several key members of B VMS engineering of the time have confirmed something like this did happen.   3 If you read the Digital publication "OpenVMS at 20"a6 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/20th/vmsbook.pdfE and search for Cutler you will find many references including "That's=D not surprising because the chief architect of both operating systems? (NT and VMS  was Dave Cutler" - Mary Ellen Fortier, Director ofc OpenVMS marketing..i    C The big problem with NT is that Cutler's  Win-32 API was dropped in E favour of the Win 3.1/95 32 bit API because NT delays had caused thate version to be released first.. -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:07:05 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>s9 Subject: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellast8 Message-ID: <0gbd4uola27b0uh16qp9ulter7p6hniu4f@4ax.com>  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/17010201.htm   ! Memo from Capellas to the troops.<  B No mention of VMS... Unix sales up 60% - that's US military sale ID believe and won't be repeated in future quarters (unless the sale is% staggered)  ISSG up 9% Tandem up 19% t   That's Q3->Q4 figures.   Ends  with:C "But the results speak for themselves. This is the best team in the ) industry, and I'm proud to be part of it.>   Michael"  B  Hmm, if he has the best team why merge with an inferior one or is3 this the biggest hint yet that the HP deal is dead?o     Selected quotes:   PC economicsC Clearly, 2001 was the most difficult year ever for the PC business. E Revenue was down significantly across the industry - a combination of=F reduced demand and aggressive pricing. After a weak Q3, revenue in theA Access Business Group increased 16% sequentially to $3.8 billion. F While we still lost money, our results improved by $186 million - fromC an operating loss of $255 million in Q3 to a loss of $69 million in : Q4. We're not happy with any loss, but we continue to moveE aggressively to drive innovation, improve our business model, restore @ profitability and grow what we see as a very strategic business.   Extend enterprise capabilities= Our enterprise business is built on four fundamental pillars:oC fault-tolerant systems, high performance servers, industry standard   servers and enterprise storage.   ? The Business Critical Solutions Group, which is responsible for=D fault-tolerant and high performance systems, grew 31% from the thirdA quarter on the strength of our AlphaServer and NonStop Himalaya > systems. UNIX revenue was up 60% sequentially. And the NonStop@ Division grew 19%. New business accounted for one-quarter of the> division's revenue, the third consecutive quarter in which new0 business accounted for more than 20% of revenue.       -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:20:07 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellasd, Message-ID: <3C46C155.3176BCB5@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote: D > No mention of VMS... Unix sales up 60% - that's US military sale IF > believe and won't be repeated in future quarters (unless the sale is& > staggered)  ISSG up 9% Tandem up 19%  J Capellas and Winkler repeated/emphasized the fact that they had made greatN strides in improving the Access business economics, especially with regards to inventory and velocity.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:15:19 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e= Subject: Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellasa8 Message-ID: <uajd4u4t8pih01bpn5ld33916q392mvf8q@4ax.com>  C On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:20:07 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>  wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote:E >> No mention of VMS... Unix sales up 60% - that's US military sale IdG >> believe and won't be repeated in future quarters (unless the sale is ' >> staggered)  ISSG up 9% Tandem up 19%  > K >Capellas and Winkler repeated/emphasized the fact that they had made great O >strides in improving the Access business economics, especially with regards to  >inventory and velocity.  E But having made these great strides they are still losing money *and*a? market share. Is it really beyond them to understand that theirrD competitors are not standing still either? Personally I think it is.  F Obviously there inventory is way down as they've shut down some of theF factories feeding the warehouses. I doubt Compaq could quickly ramp up) PC production again even if it wanted to.- -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:01:20 -0500k% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> = Subject: Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellast, Message-ID: <3C46D907.6BF64EEA@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:/G > But having made these great strides they are still losing money *and*oA > market share. Is it really beyond them to understand that theiroF > competitors are not standing still either? Personally I think it is.  M In all fairness, if Compaq was able to improve its core business, then it has K the right to brag about at and shout that the clouds are clearing, sun will J shine and everything will be rosy very soon. Capellas sounded quite upbeatK about the future of the PC business and he said that next week (Sept 25) heaO will be providing further guidance on what Compaq expects for the next quarter.t  I And since it is a given that Compaq's primary business is Wintel, it is a N given that it is focusing on that side of the business with the old stuff from5 digital and tandem just mentioned as also doing well.   L As far as your complaint on the CNN headline, I am sorry to say that I fullyM understand that headline. The spoken presentation was quite upbeat for the PC I business and how they were turning it around, so it is only normal to seeu6 media focus on that since this is what really changed.  J Rememeber that Compaq never says that the enterprise stuff from tandem and+ digital is the sole source of real profits.e  F I don't see why people try so hard to change Compaq into an enterpriseI business. Compaq is a PC company. It is ridiculour to expect it to change N itself into a real enterprise company. It is good enough that it tolerates theM old legacy stuff from Digital and Tandem. We shoudl not expect anything more.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:34:29 +0100h1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>d= Subject: Re: Compaq will not leave the PC business - Capellas 5 Message-ID: <3C470B25.E0F5C725@swissonline.delete.ch>i   Alan Greig wrote:t > ) > http://www.theinquirer.net/17010201.htmo > # > Memo from Capellas to the troops.  >  ...  >  > Selected quotes: >  > PC economicsE > Clearly, 2001 was the most difficult year ever for the PC business. G > Revenue was down significantly across the industry - a combination of H > reduced demand and aggressive pricing. After a weak Q3, revenue in theC > Access Business Group increased 16% sequentially to $3.8 billion. H > While we still lost money, our results improved by $186 million - fromE > an operating loss of $255 million in Q3 to a loss of $69 million ino< > Q4. We're not happy with any loss, but we continue to moveG > aggressively to drive innovation, improve our business model, restore B > profitability and grow what we see as a very strategic business.    G On the one hand we have Capellas saying we'll "drive innovation" but asaF you reported a few weeks back we have Compaq people saying "There's no# value in being diferent."  Hmmm....i  E I agree with your comments about PCs.  Apparently they worked hard to=D get this improvement of $186 million.  I'll be surprised if there isD that much improvement to be made again (unless things are very wrongG with the distrubtion model !!).  If they did save another $186 million, A that would bring the profits to $117 million and if expenses were E unchanged that would mean an ROI of just 3%.  They'd be better off tob& invest the money and get at least 5% !    G Also, I wonder if "Enterprise" Expenses included the money saved by not H having expenses for Alpha R & D now that it has gone to Intel.  If theseG expenses are spread evenly across the year we are looking at the betterlB part of $100 million for the quarter.  If savings of this size areB included, then it's worth considering that if it was still part ofG Compaq's expenses, income for "Enterprise" would be a loss of about $502 million.     John McLeane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:47:42 +0100 $ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>J Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?1 Message-ID: <imC18.1282$lw2.3870@news.get2net.dk>-  @ "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message* news:DVi18.114$PZ4.725@news.cpqcorp.net... clip ..C  H > >When you look at how long it took to finish the Digital work to get a
 > WildfireF > >to market, do you think that Compaq will fund VMS specific hardwareA > >development faster than it funded the completion of Wildfire ?e > >4 >5K > Hello.  The point is that there is no longer any need to build a VMS-only  or > UNIX-only box. >a  L I thought that the VMS-Only and Unix-Only was a marketing device rather than4 a technical one, judging by the prices of the boxes.   Dweeb    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:55:47 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>J Subject: Re: Dumb question - If the merger dies, CAN Alpha be resurrected?> Message-ID: <7uC18.81028$Sj1.31936370@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  / "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> wrote in messager+ news:imC18.1282$lw2.3870@news.get2net.dk...h >hB > "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message, > news:DVi18.114$PZ4.725@news.cpqcorp.net...	 > clip ..H >yJ > > >When you look at how long it took to finish the Digital work to get a > > WildfireH > > >to market, do you think that Compaq will fund VMS specific hardwareC > > >development faster than it funded the completion of Wildfire ?r > > >a > > D > > Hello.  The point is that there is no longer any need to build a VMS-only > or > > UNIX-only box. > >m >sI > I thought that the VMS-Only and Unix-Only was a marketing device ratherr than6 > a technical one, judging by the prices of the boxes.  K If you go back to the days of the NT-only AlphaServers, this is pretty muchhK true. The affordable NT boxes were lobotomized so they could not run a realhH OS. As most Multia owners know, there are hacks that can be performed...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:57:53 -0000t7 From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@reading.sema.slb.com>sY Subject: Editing multiple files (was [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directoriefH Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE015290E1@reaes2.sema.co.uk>  F carl@gergl1.gerg.tamu.edu [mailto:carl@gergl1.gerg.tamu.edu] writes... >  l? > Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes...t2 > }> I would like to know why I cant move between ! > }> directories using wildcards:  > }>   > }> $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]a > } J > }Easy: what if there is more than one match?  It's easy enough to write G > }some DCL in your CD.COM or whatever to move to a directory if it is MH > }unique and, if not, to print a list (perhaps to be selected with the 
 > }mouse). > } L > }Similarly: editing more than one file doesn't make sense.  In this case, G > }it might make sense to edit them one after another---certainly many a0 > }folks have written DCL procedures to do this. > E > Interestingly enough, the LSE editor allows you to use wildcards in 1 > filenames. It opens the first one that matches.o
 > --- Carl  H The standard straight-out-of-the-box EVE as supplied with VMS allows youI to edit more than one file. Just type EDIT, without a file name, then hitoI DO and type say GET WILD ABC*.COM, to pick up all the files matching that H specification. Editing more than one file certainly does make sense. YouI can create a learn sequence which does whatever you want on one file, and,I moves on to the next buffer, then repeat that learned sequence. It's deade useful.   H I wrote some TPU to behave as 'kept' editor - I called it KED, running aI subprocess permanently in the editor, and allowed you an option, so that eH it would work in either way. KED *.DAT would give a list to choose from,G and KED /ALL *.dat would edit all the .dat files at once, just by usingt/ either the GET command or the GET WILD command.h   John John Powerse      K ___________________________________________________________________________0B This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of o SchlumbergerSema. M If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thispI email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or s- copying of this email is strictly prohibited.   z If you have received this email in error please notify the SchlumbergerSema Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.K ___________________________________________________________________________D   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 03:35:05 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)>! Subject: Re: FTP Success/Failure?B3 Message-ID: <XWAHUf6Px9HG@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  } In article <BELVkZTct5A2@eisner.encompasserve.org>, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:  > C > Interesting (and concerning) discovery time. According to UCX 4.x J > documentation, the default for /CHECKSUM (see SET PROTOCOL TCP/CHECKSUM)J > appears to be no checksums; which would be a violation of the above RFC,M > but I note that on my system it's enabled, so I wonder if the documentation2> > is wrong or if I just turned it on and then forgot about it. >   J Just to let everyone know that this just appears to be a UCX documentationE error, and that checksums appear to be turned on by default, which is.D what I would expect. I was already very _HIGHLY_ suspicious that theH documented default of /CHECKSUM=NOSEND was wrong as this would mean thatE UCX would not be able to communicate with other non-UCX hosts, (whichaL couldn't possibly be right) and I don't recall having to change the defaults- when I last set up UCX 4.x several years ago.o  K The wrong documentation is in the Management Command Reference for UCX 4.2,e page 2-134.    Simon.   --  G Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP       |+ Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:42:31 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!> Message-ID: <bxA18.80928$Sj1.31860022@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:apE9OMhPueEx@eisner.encompasserve.org..._= > In article <3C463236.6D0D8354@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"e <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:o > > Sue Skonetski wrote: > >> [snip]sI > >> People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People can G > >> belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more  > >> information on the topic? > > K > > The main difference is that Gartner especially, but also Inquirer (to at; > > GREATLY lesser degree) are in the credibility business.n > >h >d= > My thoughts exactly.  And when Gartner pens things that are B > easily refuted by Compaq (with supporting evidence, i.e. numbersD > and other related facts and/or idle speculation - believing active? > system count is 30-40% less than Compaq's offered 411K) theire > credibility takes a big hit. >   H What's equally interesting is that Gartner's VMS V7.2 OS writeup on CNETE (the one that drew ~350 responses, 98 percent of which were positive)SK disappeared several weeks ago, perhaps concurrently with the release of ther/ draft version of the so-called "Research" Note.p   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 08:00:02 -0600G From: simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)iD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!3 Message-ID: <$aVSpXHOwL7i@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <bxA18.80928$Sj1.31860022@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:p > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:apE9OMhPueEx@eisner.encompasserve.org... > >> In article <3C463236.6D0D8354@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"! > <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes:v >> > Sue Skonetski wrote:i >> >> [snip]J >> >> People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People canH >> >> belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more >> >> information on the topic?b >> >L >> > The main difference is that Gartner especially, but also Inquirer (to a< >> > GREATLY lesser degree) are in the credibility business. >> > >>> >> My thoughts exactly.  And when Gartner pens things that areC >> easily refuted by Compaq (with supporting evidence, i.e. numbersnE >> and other related facts and/or idle speculation - believing active @ >> system count is 30-40% less than Compaq's offered 411K) their >> credibility takes a big hit.e >> > J > What's equally interesting is that Gartner's VMS V7.2 OS writeup on CNETG > (the one that drew ~350 responses, 98 percent of which were positive)bM > disappeared several weeks ago, perhaps concurrently with the release of them1 > draft version of the so-called "Research" Note.r >   C 1) Is it normal for old articles to be pulled from CNET like that ?t  M 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't understande- what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?a   Simon.   -- yG Simon Clubley, simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP        + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:12:02 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>nD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!+ Message-ID: <3C46DB88.A8B1B95@videotron.ca>n   Simon Clubley wrote:O > 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't understandw/ > what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?e  E When did Compaq respond in comparison with the date of publication ofa Gartner's opinion ?l  M It is *possible* that Compaq was asleep at the wheel and only responded aftereJ the got a peek at the report, and now that it has been published, they are trying to raise their voice.  I Another possibility is that Compaq (senior) wanted Gartner to publish badoK stuff about VMS to help the migration from VMS to NT over time, and GartnereM listened to Compaq (senior) and discarded the stuff from Compaq (VMS grunts).r  N No matter what really happens, the fact that Gartner has a negative opinion ofH VMS is fully understandable when you consider the total lack of interest Compaq corporate has in VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:19:39 GMTu4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!> Message-ID: <%3B18.80951$Sj1.31882614@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3C46DB88.A8B1B95@videotron.ca...e > Simon Clubley wrote:F > > 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't
 understand1 > > what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?  >eG > When did Compaq respond in comparison with the date of publication of- > Gartner's opinion ?1  K If you read the full text you will note that Gartner published its Research: Note on 20 December.   >PI > It is *possible* that Compaq was asleep at the wheel and only responded. after L > the got a peek at the report, and now that it has been published, they are > trying to raise their voice.  K If you read the full text of the report you will note that Compaq maintainsnH that The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the draft' copy made available to them for review.    >eK > Another possibility is that Compaq (senior) wanted Gartner to publish badnE > stuff about VMS to help the migration from VMS to NT over time, andy GartnercF > listened to Compaq (senior) and discarded the stuff from Compaq (VMS grunts).  < I prefer the Space Alien and Black Helicopter theory myself.   >tE > No matter what really happens, the fact that Gartner has a negativeu
 opinion ofJ > VMS is fully understandable when you consider the total lack of interest > Compaq corporate has in VMS.  G What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on Gartner's-K part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 in the CNET report  of a year ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:19:05 -0500l% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>dD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C46EB3B.6E6DFCC9@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:hI > What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on Gartner'sPM > part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 in the CNET reportc > of a year ago.  J A year ago, it was during the short lived renaissance. Now that Compaq hasL made it clear it was a one time short term experiement, Gartner has returned to its "VMS is dead" stance.  K What it does show though is that it wouldn't take much to put VMS back ontoeE health and growing. Just that renaissance period with token amount oftM marketing had achieved a turn around from diminishing slaes to growing sales,s@ and getting folks like Gartner to say positive things about VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:25:13 +0000l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!8 Message-ID: <qjud4ucv15u6e33g38rn35i7k5fo7308v0@4ax.com>  4 On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:19:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:    H >What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on Gartner'sL >part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 in the CNET report >of a year ago.   F The positive Gartner VMS report was still available at www.gartner.comE to corporate Gartner clients as of yesterday as I found it again whenn( I tried to download the current report.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:14:43 -0000-- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!7 Message-ID: <9199843E9warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>C  I bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in <d7791aa1.0201150901.661eef67g @posting.google.com>:w  J >This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsI >Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this, 3 >Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!e > ( >http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm >a! >Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"a  L More than the "who lied" question, I'm concerned about the management types 9 will see the Gartner report, but not the Compaq rebuttal.i  K If CPQ does little/nothing to *broadcast* the rebuttal, then it could be a  0 tacit admission by CPQ that Gartner nailed it...   ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)i The Associated Press  @ ** When Windows is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:43:46 +0100l- From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> > Subject: How to prevent NFS-client to cache in (virtual)memory3 Message-ID: <3C46B8F2.2F48AB19@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>i   Hi all,m  4 I'm running the following version of TCPIP-services:?   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1 - ECO 3h9   on a Digital Personal WorkStation  running OpenVMS V7.3y  A I perform NFS mounts over TCPIP of some disks attached to a Linux6 machine in the following way:e: $   tcpip mount dnfs0: linux$usr linux$usr /host=linux -  G /path="/usr"/system/uid=0/gid=0/acp=(max_work=128,work=64)/timeout=::30n  A I added the ACP qualifier in a try to limit the memory use of the E DNFS#ACP process. However, when I perform a lot of file reading (i.e.h? make a backup of the whole disk) it still exhausts my pagefile.rE Is there a way to prevent this caching in memory? Of ourse I expect aeF penalty in access time when rereading files, but I can live with this.  
          Joukw   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:34:17 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>aB Subject: Re: How to prevent NFS-client to cache in (virtual)memory, Message-ID: <3C46B69B.8A8ECFF1@videotron.ca>   Jouk Jansen wrote:: > $   tcpip mount dnfs0: linux$usr linux$usr /host=linux -I > /path="/usr"/system/uid=0/gid=0/acp=(max_work=128,work=64)/timeout=::30n > C > I added the ACP qualifier in a try to limit the memory use of thecG > DNFS#ACP process. However, when I perform a lot of file reading (i.e.eA > make a backup of the whole disk) it still exhausts my pagefile.   ) acp=(max_workset= , page_file=, workset=)v  K The doc says to look at HELP RUN PROCESS for description of the parameters..V (not sure if all of them can be used. Note that RUN process uses /MAXIMUM_WORKING_SET.  N Note that you should check your UAF for the PGFILE parameter to ensure that noG single user can exceed the actual page file sizes and hang your system.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:11:38 +0100 - From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> B Subject: Re: How to prevent NFS-client to cache in (virtual)memory3 Message-ID: <3C46DB9A.7468A7DE@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>.   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Jouk Jansen wrote:< > > $   tcpip mount dnfs0: linux$usr linux$usr /host=linux -K > > /path="/usr"/system/uid=0/gid=0/acp=(max_work=128,work=64)/timeout=::30e > >eE > > I added the ACP qualifier in a try to limit the memory use of the I > > DNFS#ACP process. However, when I perform a lot of file reading (i.e. C > > make a backup of the whole disk) it still exhausts my pagefile.a > + > acp=(max_workset= , page_file=, workset=)m > M > The doc says to look at HELP RUN PROCESS for description of the parameters.gX > (not sure if all of them can be used. Note that RUN process uses /MAXIMUM_WORKING_SET. > P > Note that you should check your UAF for the PGFILE parameter to ensure that noI > single user can exceed the actual page file sizes and hang your system. E Seems to work. The created process has a lower page file quota limit.lG Now I have to see if everything is well programmed and that the process ) will not crash when the limit is reached.                     Jouk-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:17:51 -0500P* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>D Subject: RE: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of- Message-ID: <0033000048193045000002L052*@MHS>D  D =0AOne of the results of several decades of curricular deterioration> in our public educational system is that the general public is> for the most part no longer capable of differentiating between? accurate, intelligent, insightful writing and sensationalistic, 6 agenda-driven propaganda masquerading as "journalism".  5 Population density is a phrase that has two meanings.    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETu( Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 9:55 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETD Subject: RE: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of    . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message8 news:m8B18.206690$pa1.56808765@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...H > If one can't expect accurate,intelligent, and insightful writing from=  theH > likes of Gartner, Aberdeen, et al. then what makes one think that tho= se3 > qualities can be expected from the popular press?  >eE > Their primary job is to get one's attention, not to supply accurate  insight.  D The primary job of the trade press is to make money. They do this byH providing content that serves as a framework for advertisements. This h= oldsD true for "controlled circulation" (free to qualified subscribers, egB ComputerWorld et al) and paid-subscription (eg Business Week, etc) publications alike.  >eH > Apologies in advance to Terry, whose accurate, insightful, and intell= igentt< > writings are not included in this trashing of the 'press'. >w  H It is arguable that the quality of IT trade press publications has decl= inedH significantly in the past decade. The content of circa-1980's DEC-speci= ficoF publications, notably Digital Review in the US and DEC User in the UK,H reflected substantial technical expertise. The move to "industry standa= rdF computing" did away with the vendor-specific publications and with the- technical focus of the writers and reporters.r  H This, of course, provides me with a nice little niche, but it's sad to = seemF the paucity of technical content and insight in the mainstream media.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:28:33 GMTw4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of> Message-ID: <B4C18.81007$Sj1.31921979@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message_' news:0033000048193045000002L052*@MHS...-  A One of the results of several decades of curricular deteriorationl> in our public educational system is that the general public is> for the most part no longer capable of differentiating between? accurate, intelligent, insightful writing and sensationalistic,e6 agenda-driven propaganda masquerading as "journalism".  5 Population density is a phrase that has two meanings.e   WWWebb   Well stated! ;-}   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:07:30 +0000L% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>kG Subject: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqm8 Message-ID: <87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com>  C On the CNN Money site (formerly CNNFN) http://money.cnn.com appearsuB the following headline "Signs of  Life for PCs". Clicking the linkD leads to the report on Compaq's Q4 figures. Actually reading the CNNA report makes it clear that PCs were dragging the company down but E whoever writes the headlines obviously hadn't read the article. AfterdC all everyone knows Compaq is a PC company so if it produces figuresoA ahead of expectations then obviously PCs must be showing signs of < life. Compaq fail to project their correct image yet again.   F I note also that the largest Q3-Q4 revenue increase came from productsC which Compaq are killing: Tru64 on Alphaservers. Although, again, Ic> believe a huge US military sale accounts for the bulk of this.C Assuming that the merger fails and Compaq still license HP-UX as is F suggested who would you buy an IA64 based HP-UX system from: Compaq or? HP if you were the US military? Answer quite possibly neither I  suspect.  F Here's a couple of quotes from the CNN report making it clear there isF no "signs of life for PCs" yet that's what the blithering idiot at CNN who wrote the headline deduced.g  A "Meanwhile, the company's PC business weighed on the bottom line, + posting an operating loss for the quarter."n   andr  F "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andB data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit' posted operating income of $56 million.i  D The weak link in Compaq's business during the fourth quarter was itsB PC business, which logged revenue of $3.8 billion and an operating loss of $69 million.  E Compaq has been struggling in the PC market amid dwindling demand and C increased pricing pressure. The company has taken a number of steps A over the past year to improve profits there, including laying offeA workers, outsourcing the production of its portable computers and  working off inventories.  F While the PC unit's losses have been narrowing, Compaq executives saidB they still have a way to go and they do not expect it to return to3 profitability until the second half of this year." s       -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:24:18 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>aK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq-> Message-ID: <m8B18.206690$pa1.56808765@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>  I If one can't expect accurate,intelligent, and insightful writing from therG likes of Gartner, Aberdeen, et al. then what makes one think that those,1 qualities can be expected from the popular press?t  L Their primary job is to get one's attention, not to supply accurate insight.  J Apologies in advance to Terry, whose accurate, insightful, and intelligent: writings are not included in this trashing of the 'press'.    2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com...E > On the CNN Money site (formerly CNNFN) http://money.cnn.com appearshD > the following headline "Signs of  Life for PCs". Clicking the linkF > leads to the report on Compaq's Q4 figures. Actually reading the CNNC > report makes it clear that PCs were dragging the company down buthG > whoever writes the headlines obviously hadn't read the article. After E > all everyone knows Compaq is a PC company so if it produces figuresdC > ahead of expectations then obviously PCs must be showing signs ofs= > life. Compaq fail to project their correct image yet again.t >sH > I note also that the largest Q3-Q4 revenue increase came from productsE > which Compaq are killing: Tru64 on Alphaservers. Although, again, I @ > believe a huge US military sale accounts for the bulk of this.E > Assuming that the merger fails and Compaq still license HP-UX as isdH > suggested who would you buy an IA64 based HP-UX system from: Compaq orA > HP if you were the US military? Answer quite possibly neither II
 > suspect. >IH > Here's a couple of quotes from the CNN report making it clear there isH > no "signs of life for PCs" yet that's what the blithering idiot at CNN! > who wrote the headline deduced.t >cC > "Meanwhile, the company's PC business weighed on the bottom line,a- > posting an operating loss for the quarter."@ >e > anda > H > "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andD > data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit) > posted operating income of $56 million.  >eF > The weak link in Compaq's business during the fourth quarter was itsD > PC business, which logged revenue of $3.8 billion and an operating > loss of $69 million. >oG > Compaq has been struggling in the PC market amid dwindling demand andpE > increased pricing pressure. The company has taken a number of stepsbC > over the past year to improve profits there, including laying off C > workers, outsourcing the production of its portable computers andM > working off inventories. >SH > While the PC unit's losses have been narrowing, Compaq executives saidD > they still have a way to go and they do not expect it to return to4 > profitability until the second half of this year." >f >y >d > -- > Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:50:05 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqj> Message-ID: <xwB18.80982$Sj1.31900714@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message8 news:m8B18.206690$pa1.56808765@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...K > If one can't expect accurate,intelligent, and insightful writing from the I > likes of Gartner, Aberdeen, et al. then what makes one think that thoses3 > qualities can be expected from the popular press?  > E > Their primary job is to get one's attention, not to supply accuraten insight.  D The primary job of the trade press is to make money. They do this byK providing content that serves as a framework for advertisements. This holdsaD true for "controlled circulation" (free to qualified subscribers, egB ComputerWorld et al) and paid-subscription (eg Business Week, etc) publications alike.h > L > Apologies in advance to Terry, whose accurate, insightful, and intelligent< > writings are not included in this trashing of the 'press'. >d  K It is arguable that the quality of IT trade press publications has declinedsJ significantly in the past decade. The content of circa-1980's DEC-specificF publications, notably Digital Review in the US and DEC User in the UK,I reflected substantial technical expertise. The move to "industry standardsF computing" did away with the vendor-specific publications and with the- technical focus of the writers and reporters.t  J This, of course, provides me with a nice little niche, but it's sad to seeE the paucity of technical content and insight in the mainstream media.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:40:18 GMTa0 From: Leonard Fehskens <len.fehskens@compaq.com>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq ; Message-ID: <Xns919981B2381F5LenNewsgroupID@155.186.176.59>e  . Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> quoted CNN in 0 news:87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com:  H > "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andD > data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit) > posted operating income of $56 million.   G And Compaq Global Services posted income of $253 million on revenues of 8 $2.032 billion.  Whose profits are carrying the company?   len.  s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:10:16 +0100a1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>oK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqa5 Message-ID: <3C471388.80878B20@swissonline.delete.ch>d   Leonard Fehskens wrote:h > / > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> quoted CNN inG2 > news:87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com: > J > > "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andF > > data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit+ > > posted operating income of $56 million.1 > I > And Compaq Global Services posted income of $253 million on revenues ofC: > $2.032 billion.  Whose profits are carrying the company?    @ Global Services is taking over from Enterprise as being the main
 bread-winner.    Stands to reason...a - minimal R & D on product$ - supply of parts is relatively easy@ - minimal manufacturing (no, get your mind out of there - I mean	 training)n  - no warehouse and storage costs - minimal transportation costs4 - minimal problem about being relaced by newer model8 - minimal problem of change of platform  (new chairs ??)0 - minimal engineering support to fix the product% - far less testing to verify upgradesu  H Carbon-based processing may be a bit slower but has a lot fewer hassles.     John McLean   4 PS.  ...and there's no newsgroup to argue about it !   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:28:00 GMT.' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)mK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqs/ Message-ID: <3c4716e2.3527986@news.charter.net>   M Speaking as a one-time frequent author of pieces for PC Magazine, PC Week, PC O Tech Journal (going way back) and others, I can assure you that they are mostlynM unwilling to pay for the necessary talent to provide insightful writing.  ThedO web has had a major impact on ad revenues for the printed media, and Ziff-DavissG is in deep financial doo-doo, so I doubt we'll ever again see accurate,iM intelligent, and insightful writing in the trade rags ever again... Ben Myerss  P On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:50:05 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   > / >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messagej9 >news:m8B18.206690$pa1.56808765@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...tL >> If one can't expect accurate,intelligent, and insightful writing from theJ >> likes of Gartner, Aberdeen, et al. then what makes one think that those4 >> qualities can be expected from the popular press? >>F >> Their primary job is to get one's attention, not to supply accurate	 >insight.n >oE >The primary job of the trade press is to make money. They do this bywL >providing content that serves as a framework for advertisements. This holdsE >true for "controlled circulation" (free to qualified subscribers, eg C >ComputerWorld et al) and paid-subscription (eg Business Week, etc)p >publications alike. >>M >> Apologies in advance to Terry, whose accurate, insightful, and intelligentx= >> writings are not included in this trashing of the 'press'.  >> > L >It is arguable that the quality of IT trade press publications has declinedK >significantly in the past decade. The content of circa-1980's DEC-specifichG >publications, notably Digital Review in the US and DEC User in the UK,uJ >reflected substantial technical expertise. The move to "industry standardG >computing" did away with the vendor-specific publications and with then. >technical focus of the writers and reporters. >=K >This, of course, provides me with a nice little niche, but it's sad to seedF >the paucity of technical content and insight in the mainstream media. >p >e  	 Ben Myersw Spirit of Performance, Inc.e 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451w tel: 978-456-3889  eFax: 810-963-0412    PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:02:01 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>h& Subject: Indexed file loading strategy, Message-ID: <3C4684EC.1D066D72@videotron.ca>  J OK, I have oodles of records to add to a file over a period which may take
 over a month.a  M Easiest is to do a $PUT to the file which would be opened to allow concurrenteK read access so that I would be able to develop and test scripts that access.L the data while it is being loaded.  The file will have multiple keys, but it> would be easy for me to load it with its primary key in order.  I Would performance degrade significantly and progressively as it grows, orrK would it degrade after a while and then remain at about the same speed  for)I the remainder ? (ile., is a bucket split costlier in a very large file ?)e    C If I go through a temporary sequential file, while would be better:f  N 1- single growing sequential file, which I would convert/FDL from time to timeH to create the indexed file to be used during script development/testing.  K 2- application creates batches of records (1000 ?) in a sequential file and T then use CONVERT/MERGE to add those records to build the indexed file incrementally.    M And just out of curiosity, would it be possible to feed records to a mailbox,g and then do a:K CONVERT/FDL=big_file.FDL MBA1234: BIG_FILE.DAT ?  Or does CONVERT require at) file to which it can seek/random access ?t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:41:23 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Re: Indexed file loading strategy) Message-ID: <3C46AA53.62736136@127.0.0.1>2   JF Mezei wrote:r > L > OK, I have oodles of records to add to a file over a period which may take > over a month.a  G Probably to save you some trouble, it would be best to use the OPTIMIZE H script on your FDL and put in some numbers for the final file size. ThatB will give you the rough correct bucket sizes etc. If you're addingH record in order, then go for a bucket and record fill of around 90% say.D If it is more random, then less, even 50% or lower. OK you may get aD large wasted space, but you can reclaim that in one operation at the* end, saving time with repeated operations.  \ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4506/4506pro_029.html#apps_optimizing_redesigning  Q http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/4506/4506pro_009.html#apps_fill_factore  F (If you have access to version 7.1 manuals, the "Guide to OpenVMS FileF Applications" manual, section 3.5 has a good explanation of how it allB works. I personally don't find the current documentation as clear)  5 If you are really worried, there is an article titled   H [OpenVMS] Example-MACRO  Program To Determine When To CONVERT Index File  E and it compiles and works nicely on VAX and Alpha. It'll work on openoA files too, and you can even feed the program a wildcard filespec.e  O > And just out of curiosity, would it be possible to feed records to a mailbox,o > and then do a:M > CONVERT/FDL=big_file.FDL MBA1234: BIG_FILE.DAT ?  Or does CONVERT require ai+ > file to which it can seek/random access ?r   Can you get a mailbox that big?l  ) Have you considered using a virtual disk?t   HTH, -- e( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:23:21 -0500t% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>c* Subject: Re: Indexed file loading strategy, Message-ID: <3C46B40C.A4E0D058@videotron.ca>   Nic Clews wrote:O > > CONVERT/FDL=big_file.FDL MBA1234: BIG_FILE.DAT ?  Or does CONVERT require aa- > > file to which it can seek/random access ?  > ! > Can you get a mailbox that big?c  M Mailbox would only need to hold a single record. I'll be generating about one I record per minute. So if CONVERT could be patient, getting a record everye. minute, I was just wondering if it would work.  H On the other hand, this wouldn't be desirable since a system crash wouldM probably leave an unusable file. (writing with $PUT to the indexed file or to H a sequential file would garantee that that transaction was done and data; saved). Acquiring the data is what will take the most time.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:36:25 +010032 From: "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> Subject: Re: MarxiG Message-ID: <3c467ef7$0$20644$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>l  D "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag& news:a24ptc$1ti2$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...I > In article <3c42c944$0$20644$6e365a64@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>,r7 >  "Ren Schelbaum" <rene.schelbaum@datakom.at> writes:e > |>D > |> But we still can understand each other if we talk, even without. > |> capitalization - so do we really need it? > |> ><D > With the spoken word we have inflection for aural cues and in faceD > to face conversation we have visual cues.  Written has always beenG > a problem, thus the need for the creation of emoticons to try (badly)oF > to make up for this shortcoming.  Removing capitalization would make > it even worse. >r > bill >m > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>  J Isn't it more the context than the capitalization that is giving the sense	 to words?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 00:25:52 -0800-3 From: Johnny Appleseed <johnny@nextdiagnostics.com>a) Subject: Mother Nature's Best Menu. <Adv>,; Message-ID: <200201170825.g0H8Pqd18233@nextdiagnostics.com>b  ? DreamPharm.com - Natural health for you and your beloved ones..s  D Nutrition, life style, and heredity are important factors for healthC and longevity. (Of these, heredity is the least controllable thing   for the time being.)  E Nutrition is an important and yet highly controllable factor. You can ' choose to benefit from it as you wish. t  A DreamPharm provides ALL NATURAL diet supplement products to help a promote your health. C  E Visit us at http://DreamPharm.com and help yourself with safe Mother   nature's recipes. .                         (partial product list)   -Double G SuperPower  8         Ginkgo and Ginseng for sound body and sound mind -Pro Stamina         for men and womenm -Golden Ener-Z+         for physical soundness and strengthr -Royal Jelly-         rich with all kinds of nutritions ... 
 -Coenzyme Q10o;         a.k.a. vitamin Q. a great antioxidant, and more ...i -Ginkgo Biloba;         brain function, antioxidant, and physical soundnesso
 -Echinacea!         for healthy immune systems
 -Hair Millionv5         a healthy herbal formula to ward off baldnessr -Good Dreamu8         sleep like a baby, you will be a lot healthier..
 -My Serena&         for calmness, to help you rest  ? (Interested in distributing our products? info@dreampharm.com ) ? ---------------------------------------------------------------f= We will rarely send you e-mails. However, to stop receiving, -9 please visit (click at) http://64.163.53.206/remove.html "? ---------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 06:25:32 -0800. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman): Subject: Need help with ANAL/ERROR output -- 2 disk errors= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0201170625.4c25d14f@posting.google.com>h  F Can anyone help me interpret this and/or make recommendations for whatF to do about this disk? The timeout error concerns me the most. Is thisF just a warning about a command that had to be resent or might there be" some missing/corrupt data? Thanks.  g $ TYPE DKA200.ERR   A   F  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 17-JAN-2002 16:18:10E                                                                      n	 PAGE   1.r   /  ******************************* ENTRY    1755.. *******************************eF  ERROR SEQUENCE 28412.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 17-JAN-2002 12:09:53.02                            SYS_TYPE 04140001   SYSTEM UPTIME: 74 DAYS 21:33:12F  SCS NODE: NODEXX                                              VAX/VMS V6.1  a8  DEVICE ERROR  KA47  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  s'  RZ26L SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _NODEXX$DKA200:r  t        HW REVISION     43303434a9                                        HW REVISION = 440Cc        ERROR TYPE            05rC                                        EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVEDy        SCSI ID               02i3                                        SCSI ID = 2.         SCSI LUN              00 4                                        SCSI LUN = 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00i7                                        SCSI SUBLUN = 0.         PORT STATUS     00000001t?                                        %SYSTEM-S-NORMAL, NORMALC
 SUCCESSFUL2                                         COMPLETION        SCSI CMD        78BA0F0Ai                            0001g,                                        WRITE        SCSI STATUS           02 6                                        CHECK CONDITION  c  EXTENDED SENSE DATA           EXTENDED SENSE  00060070t                        0A000000                         00000000m                        00000129C                            0000h5                                        UNIT ATTENTIONf9                                        UNKNOWN ERROR TYPE         UCB$B_ERTCNT          04h;                                        4. RETRIES REMAININGr        UCB$B_ERTMAX          00u;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE,        ORB$L_OWNER     00010004,:                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C4D4008 ;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTUREDi4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLEh0                                        AVAILABLE.                                        MOUNTED4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUTd8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           0000m  r   F  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 17-JAN-2002 16:18:10E                                                                      e	 PAGE   2.r  b        UCB$L_OPCNT     000BC31Be>                                        770843. QIO'S THIS UNIT        UCB$W_ERRCNT        0001 :                                        1. ERRORS THIS UNIT        IRP$W_BCNT          0200pA                                        TRANSFER SIZE 512. BYTE(S)e        IRP$W_BOFF          0000t<                                        TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED        IRP$L_PID       00B80035o6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      00000001lC                        00730000        IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERREDt     tF  V A X / V M S        SYSTEM ERROR REPORT         COMPILED 17-JAN-2002 16:18:10E                                                                       	 PAGE   3.   a/  ******************************* ENTRY    1756.l *******************************iF  ERROR SEQUENCE 28413.                           LOGGED ON:        SID 12000003F  DATE/TIME 17-JAN-2002 12:10:11.76                            SYS_TYPE 04140001   SYSTEM UPTIME: 74 DAYS 21:33:31F  SCS NODE: NODEXX                                              VAX/VMS V6.1   8  DEVICE ERROR  KA47  CPU FW REV# 3.  CONSOLE FW REV# 1.4  a'  RZ26L SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _NODEXX$DKA200:-  -        HW REVISION     43303434 9                                        HW REVISION = 440C.        ERROR TYPE            03:C                                        COMMAND TRANSMISSION FAILUREs        SCSI ID               02r3                                        SCSI ID = 2.n        SCSI LUN              00c4                                        SCSI LUN = 0.        SCSI SUBLUN           00c7                                        SCSI SUBLUN = 0.t        PORT STATUS     0000022Ct@                                        %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, DEVICE TIMEOUTp        SCSI CMD        00000000e                            0000e4                                        TEST UNIT RDY        SCSI STATUS           FFe9                                        NO STATUS RECEIVEDa        UCB$B_ERTCNT          00c;                                        0. RETRIES REMAININGf        UCB$B_ERTMAX          000;                                        0. RETRIES ALLOWABLE         ORB$L_OWNER     00010004t:                                        OWNER UIC [001,004]        UCB$L_CHAR      1C4D4008t;                                        DIRECTORY STRUCTUREDa4                                        FILE ORIENTED/                                        SHARABLEl0                                        AVAILABLE.                                        MOUNTED4                                        ERROR LOGGING7                                        CAPABLE OF INPUTh8                                        CAPABLE OF OUTPUT4                                        RANDOM ACCESS        UCB$W_STS           0000t        UCB$L_OPCNT     000BC31C >                                        770844. QIO'S THIS UNIT        UCB$W_ERRCNT        0002b:                                        2. ERRORS THIS UNIT        IRP$W_BCNT          0000 ?                                        TRANSFER SIZE 0. BYTE(S)g        IRP$W_BOFF          0000s<                                        TRANSFER PAGE ALIGNED        IRP$L_PID       81FEE3B1 6                                        REQUESTOR "PID"        IRP$Q_IOSB      000000001C                        00000000        IOSB, 0. BYTE(S) TRANSFERREDu@ ANAL/ERROR/SINC=16-JAN-2002 00:00:00.00/INCL=DISK/OUT=DKA200.ERR $m   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane afeldman;gfigroup.coma   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:49:38 +0100 (MET)J& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>$ Subject: OpenVMS and new hardware ?!6 Message-ID: <200201170749.IAA24519@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  H there was once a statement of Compaq leaders, that they will support newF hardware on both highend OSes (TRUE64 and OpenVMS) at the same time. AG few month this did function. But now we can see Ultra160SCSI interfaces H supported  under TRUE64 and not under OpenVMS. This is only one example.H Also we could see a F&L (Campus in German) promotion of AlphaServers andI Stations with TRUE64 and LINUX, but no OpenVMS. Compaq should have a lookeF to Sun. This company will give you there OS till 8 CPUs for free!!!!!.G Alpha should be sold with OS included, same price for LINUX, TRUE64 and K OpenVMS. The effect would be, that Compaq will make more profit with LINUX.>F Also all new hardware should be supported under OpenVMS (e.g. USB 2.0,! Ultra160 SCSI, Burn Proof CD-RW).h   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:14:07 -0000d5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt>t? Subject: Re: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & Javan" Message-ID: <3c46b332@news.wau.nl>  A I did not yet have an opportunity to look at the latest Oracle 9i L distribution for OpenVMS to see whether their "Oracle HTTP Server Powered byL Apache" is the same as the Apache version distributed by Compaq. With OracleK version 8.1.7 they already shipped a version of Apache which I looked at ateC that time and which was different from (and inferior to) the Compaql supported version.  L As to Oracle supplying compilers etc. Oracle always has supplied developmentL tools (SQL*Forms, now called Developer, and of course JDeveloper (which theyH licensed from Borland)). Since 1988 (version 6) they also have their ownE procedural programming language PL/SQL inside the database and inside J SQLForms (PL/SQL syntax is largely derived from ADA, by the way). And whenJ they started providing tools for Web-enabling their applications they alsoK supplied their own Webserver. All this makes sense, because having your owncC source base makes it easier to Port the Oracle products to the many:K different platforms they support. About two or three years ago they decidedoH to drop their own Webserver and start using (and supporting!) the ApacheJ server, in fact the same as the VMS people did. They also added modules to? Apache they need for their own products, like mod_plsql to call K plsql-procedures from web pages and their own implementation of Java Server F Pages which is used heavily by other Oracle products. All of this getsL ported to all the Oracle platforms, the Unixes, Windows and VMS. As far as IJ can see, their Apache implementation on Windows 2000 is reliable and works
 very well.  I Now the dilemma for Oracle must have been: either port the whole of theiroL existing code base (including Apache) to VMS, where they can make use of theH fact that it is known this al works well together on other platforms andL that they have all of their test scenario's in place, or save on the portingK of the Apache kernel (where the VMS people did an excellent job) but having.F to test (and develop these tests) the interaction between their ApacheL additions and this Compaq-Apache. All in all it wouldn't surprise me if thisC latter route would be more costly. Although, as a VMS user, I would 6 certainly prefer to have only one Apache on my system.  F As for Java, Oracle demonstrates the power of Java's "write once, testK anywhere" paradigm by having several version of the Java Runtime within theaK same distribution, because the only reliable test is one piece of Java code>I against one JRE, and you can't trust it to run against another JRE in the6 same environment :-)  J Anyway, I am also very interested in the view from VMS Engineering on this issue.   cheers
 rob van lopik 1 DouroVision Consultoria Informatica Lda, PortugalsL "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3C45CCB0.3050906@home.nl...I > I've been studying the Oracle 9i installation manual for VMS today, anduD > noticed that they seem to have their own version of the Apache web5 > server for VMS, and also their own version of Java.0 >rH > I'm puzzled by this. We all want Oracle to improve their work for VMS,G > and here we see Compaq creating the Compaq Secure Web Server for VMS,/G > and Oracle also producing a version of Apache for VMS. The same thingg% > seems to apply (partly ?) for Java.a >oH > Why on earth isn't is possible that Compaq and Oracle work together onF > this, and give us one version of this software ? Or that Oracle justH > refers to Compaq for the webserver and Java ? After all, Oracle doen't; > supply us with compilers either, so why Apache and Java ?e >a   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:57:59 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)? Subject: Re: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & Javaw= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171057.62aa941d@posting.google.com>l  L Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:<3C45CCB0.3050906@home.nl>...J > I've been studying the Oracle 9i installation manual for VMS today, and E > noticed that they seem to have their own version of the Apache web /5 > server for VMS, and also their own version of Java.  > I > I'm puzzled by this. We all want Oracle to improve their work for VMS, CH > and here we see Compaq creating the Compaq Secure Web Server for VMS, H > and Oracle also producing a version of Apache for VMS. The same thing % > seems to apply (partly ?) for Java.o > I > Why on earth isn't is possible that Compaq and Oracle work together on :G > this, and give us one version of this software ? Or that Oracle just eJ > refers to Compaq for the webserver and Java ? After all, Oracle doen't  ; > supply us with compilers either, so why Apache and Java ?g  G compaq should have went w/purveyor ... would have been a better fit forc vms!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:41:22 +0100d$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>Y Subject: Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus  experiencedveth1 Message-ID: <lgC18.1279$lw2.3861@news.get2net.dk>   I Indeed, the English know a good word when they hear one and readily adopt ) it, making English a truly rich language.-  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C46D965.E593B023@videotron.ca...# > Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:: > >M- > > No eggplants in England, just aubergines!w > >eE > > It's the Americans who tried to put the egg in eggplant surely...u >cH > But the british stole it from the french. Aubergines is a french word.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:54:44 +0000h  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comY Subject: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus experiencedveterans>: Message-ID: <OF35E65DED.75F01B8F-ON00256B44.004C3F50@btyp>  ) No eggplants in England, just aubergines!   A It's the Americans who tried to put the egg in eggplant surely...n   ;^Dw   Steve S         B David Gay <dgay@lagaffe.cs.berkeley.edu> on 01/16/2002 05:19:54 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:cJ From:      David Gay <dgay@lagaffe.cs.berkeley.edu>, 16 January 2002, 5:19            p.m.|  K Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of  compaq )      1 Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.delete.ch> writes: K > Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant,   C That one makes more sense if you've ever seen the white, egg-shapedo eggplants...   --	 David Gay- dgay@acm.org          F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasoG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,e$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivediK this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.r  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.   I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,aD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:02:54 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>dY Subject: Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus experiencedveter, Message-ID: <3C46D965.E593B023@videotron.ca>  ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:o > + > No eggplants in England, just aubergines!  > C > It's the Americans who tried to put the egg in eggplant surely...G  F But the british stole it from the french. Aubergines is a french word.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:45:58 +0000n  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.comY Subject: Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versusexperiencedveter : Message-ID: <OF37C2F7A9.C2A05298-ON00256B44.00568562@btyp>  G Well, I don't think we 'stole' it - more like it was 'donated' to us by- William the Conquerer!   ;^De   Steve S-        8 "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> on 01/17/2002 03:41:22 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc: E From:      "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>, 17 January 2002, 3:41 p.m.   @ Re: OT Eggplants and Aubergines [was Re: Younger recruits versus1 experiencedveterans ( was The demise of compaq )]     I Indeed, the English know a good word when they hear one and readily adoptu) it, making English a truly rich language.   2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C46D965.E593B023@videotron.ca...# > Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:P > > - > > No eggplants in England, just aubergines!  > > E > > It's the Americans who tried to put the egg in eggplant surely...  >*H > But the british stole it from the french. Aubergines is a french word.              F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has G been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,#$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.   
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.   I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, D RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:06:23 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>P Subject: Re: Pro merger 8 Message-ID: <1a8d4u47eign319nqt612o4jgv8d93bk5n@4ax.com>  1 On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:06:04 -0500, "Main, Kerry"T <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:   >Barry,  > H >>>> For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to come out4 >of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS <<< > H >What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great andA >one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's currentEH >business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressivelyG >competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? Similarily, CompaqRI >Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.   D Kerry a dinosaur killing sized hole is blown in this argument by theC fact that HP *have* said that NSK is great in their document on whyL? the merger is such a good idea. VMS gets no mention at all. TheCE document goes on to say that HP will eliminate the multiple operating ? systems inherited from Compaq. Only NSK is singled out as safe.     F >Obviously there are business and loads of legal issues about what oneG >company can (or will) say against or for the other company when in the  >middle of a merger. >C	 >Regards,N >d >Kerry Main  >Senior Consultant >Compaq Canada Corp. >Professional Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax  :  819-772-7036W >Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.comV >X >V >-----Original Message-----R1 >From: Barry Treahy, Jr. [mailto:Treahy@mmaz.com]   >Sent: January 16, 2002 12:57 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: Pro merger >O >T >Tony Scandora wrote:  > % >>ZD just published this in a letter:S >>F >>"Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorina >dare H >>not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computerC >>operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) & VMS 	 >(Digitalt* >>Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq." >>C >This logic is flawed because if HP where buying Compaq for VMS and F >Tandem, they should have been able to predict the damage and mistrustG >that the merger announcements would create as well as Compaq's tankingtE >of Alpha; For the prior quote to mean anything, HP would have had to2I >come out of the gate openly supporting and embracing VMS and it's future A >in order to protect the interests of what they are purchasing...7 >lG >I cannot recall 'word one' from HP since this merger announcement that H >would indicate any loyalty, dedication or commitment to the old DigitalH >base or in particular, the VMS base.  Hell, this is seems impossible to# >get from Compaq and they own it!    >  >  >Barry >  >    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:20:55 +010041 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>  Subject: Re: Pro merger35 Message-ID: <3C4707F7.C4A9C16A@swissonline.delete.ch>I   Alan Greig wrote:R > 3 > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:06:04 -0500, "Main, Kerry"   > <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: > J > >What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great andC > >one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's current J > >business when the HP Sales force is currently actively and aggressivelyI > >competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? Similarily, CompaqtK > >Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities.  > F > Kerry a dinosaur killing sized hole is blown in this argument by theE > fact that HP *have* said that NSK is great in their document on why A > the merger is such a good idea. VMS gets no mention at all. The G > document goes on to say that HP will eliminate the multiple operating0A > systems inherited from Compaq. Only NSK is singled out as safe.  > H > >Obviously there are business and loads of legal issues about what oneI > >company can (or will) say against or for the other company when in theB > >middle of a merger.  F Kerry I take your point but I also agree with Alan.  Carly saying that= VMS does have a (positive) place in their plans would be very E comforting.  She doesn't have to heap praise on it; she just needs toLH give VMS customers and users some re-assurance that there is a place for it.      John McLeanR   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:44:25 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>4 Subject: RE: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(- Message-ID: <0033000048177683000002L032*@MHS>U  2 =0AIt's an oblique reference to a Monty Python bit& colloquially known as the Spam sketch-  2 It's on the Web in a plethora of places in formats/ of text, HTML and even various sound file typesB9 (thus proving that some people are truly quite demented).T  8 Incidentally, this sketch was what inspired the adoption6 of the term "spam" as a synonym for first, mass Usenet4 crosspostings and later for mass unsolicited e-mail)   I think it was the phraseE  =      "read the FAQ, the OpenVMS manuals, the FAQ and the FAQ"    that set me off.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET0( Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:48 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET4 Subject: RE: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(     WILLIAM WEBB wrote:d > % > FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQ FAQe > Lovely FAQ, Wonderful FAQ!    > Is it a new version of Jungle COMPAQ... ooops... Jingle Bells?   :-)a   D.=h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:53:53 -0600)C From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> 4 Subject: Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(= Message-ID: <3C46E581.3020000@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>    Didier Morandi wrote:p   > dittman@dittman.net wrote: > ? >  I've seen this on a PWS500au with the KZPSA.  I solved it byo > 6 >>moving the card to a different slot.  It works fine. >> >  > You made my day!  A I saw the same "illegal option" message when I put an Elsa Gloria.F Synergy in slot 4 of a 500au, and I'm sure the same thing would happenG with a lot of other officially supported options. Digging around on therD net I found something about a DMA bug in the firmware (or was it theE bridge chip?), and the firmware protects itself by simply disallowingRF anything it doesn't know by name. The bug apparently affected only theG upper, 32/64-bit slots and not the lower, 32-bit-only slots, so you cann" put anything you dare to in those.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:33:17 +0100e, From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>4 Subject: Re: PWS 600au and SCSI cluster: The End :-(& Message-ID: <3C4718ED.928765EE@gmx.ch>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:o >  > I think it was the phraseh > ? >      "read the FAQ, the OpenVMS manuals, the FAQ and the FAQ"u >  > that set me off.  M Don't tell Hoff, but I "started" reading the OpenVMS Cluster manual today andSP the Guidelines document, particularily chapter 4 and annexe A and... surprize...N all my questions to come are answered in there! Incredible! Why noone did ever tell me to RTFM? :-))s  L Ok. When I retire (ie when there will be no more VMS Engineering Group) I'll start reading the whole doc...   D.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:08:57 -08005 From: pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders)a Subject: Queue problemss= Message-ID: <bc0e3bd8.0201171008.16354721@posting.google.com>f   hi,lC   I have recently changed the name of my microvax 3100 vax node andd2 everything is fine except for the sys$batch queue.D   When I do a show queue it displays the queue as running on the old
 node name.#   I have tried to run the command :rA   init /queue /on=<new_node_name> but when I enter the queue_namea? sys$batch it replies with inconsistent queue name. The queue isuD auto-started so is not defined in systartup_v5.com. Does anyone knowE which file holds the auto-queued queue or how I change the node name., I am using vms vax 5.5-2 ta patd   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:59:49 +0100 (MET)e9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>(% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowingn; Message-ID: <01KD6FODOIQA8Y566K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>g  M > volume shadowing works fine for most situations ... raid is just a waste ofe > time and money r  C Depends on what you're doing.  I think that one should always have bE volume-shadowing, with each member of the shadow set on a completely hI different machine (certainly not on the same controller or even the same sF machine), separated by a few kilometers.  But what do you shadow?  If I you need really big (virtual) disks, you have to use RAID anyway.  Might rC as well add 20% more (physical) disks or whatever for redundancy.  wI Suppose a physical disk fails---do you want to somehow rebuild a virtual aE disk which is a few hundred GB or whatever, or would you rather that d( RAID handle this problem via redundancy?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:57:43 +0000a( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowingo) Message-ID: <3C46CA47.A0986F5F@127.0.0.1>m   Jim Strehlow wrote:D  < > What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing?6 > e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup   Volume shadowing is RAID-1    By RAID I assume you mean RAID5.  0 You need to bear in mind it is all a compromise.  3 Single disk = no protection but native performance.e  E RAID1 Shadowing = Good protection (dual failure unlikely) 100 % spacew@ overhead, small operational write overhead, arguably better read performance.  A RAID5 = Good protection, dual failure protection slightly reducedpG (compared to shadowing, one one of 'n' disks could fail in the raidset,qD and the remaining 'n' disks have to be viable*), number of disks + 1E space overhead, poor write performance (can be improved with a cache)d& arguably much better read performance.   *Better explain hadn't I:s  G Raidset of 3 disks, 1 fails, odds of remaining 2 drives failing are lowJ (only 2)F Raidset of 5 disks, 1 fails, odds of remaining 4 drives failing double
 the above.  C The nice thing about shadowing is this is under the host's control,6G giving you the convenience of being able to split data disks for backup   D To answer your question, you need to know what your client wants andH explain the options. Patches should not be your concern, they are issuedD by your operating system vendor, just trust them to come up with theD goods when you need them, and provide you reliable support if you've paid for it (my experience).  > The only thing I would say about using RAID5 is if you need toH significantly increase your storage space, and you need to replace disksF in storage sets, it is fairly time consuming migrating data off and on all the disks in the raidset.d  H Oh, there is another unpleasant thing about RAID5, it works so well thatB it is possible for a disk failure to be invisible to the operatingE system, and you don't know until it's too late when your second drive @ fails. And cache batteries !!! Limited life and must be checked!  B Do I sound biased? I just like shadowing. "#Me, and my shadow...#"   (I'll shut up now!)  -- 1( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:37:47 -0000e- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)e% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowingo7 Message-ID: <9199641A5warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>E  0 jims@data911.com (Jim Strehlow) wrote in <a24v98 $gbk@dispatch.concentric.net>:  E >I have historically seen many patches for software Volume Shadowing.oF >I have installed several hardware RAID systems last year. Works fine. >t> >I may need to setup a brand new cluster with Volume Shadowing* >(probably with Alpha OpenVMS version 7.3) >u; >What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing? 5 >e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setupp  H Where the application demands it, I like to use both in a complementary F fashion.  Set up a pair of RAID-5 arrays in different rooms, then use A volume shadowing between the hosts that own the arrays.  In this  L configuration, you can lose a room or host or array, and still be protected L against a single-disk failure on the surviving array while you're trying to " get the failed component back up.    ws   -- c   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)  The Associated Press  @ ** When Windows is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:56:19 +0000d( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowingg( Message-ID: <3C46F423.21E13C6@127.0.0.1>   Warren Spencer wrote:  > = > >What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing? 7 > >e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup_ > I > Where the application demands it, I like to use both in a complementarytG > fashion.  Set up a pair of RAID-5 arrays in different rooms, then usetB > volume shadowing between the hosts that own the arrays.  In thisM > configuration, you can lose a room or host or array, and still be protectedsM > against a single-disk failure on the surviving array while you're trying toe# > get the failed component back up.e  F What are your experiences of performance in this situation? (We have a few in this config too)e  # What size cache on each controller?l  E From MONITOR FCP what are the ratios of DISK READ RATE and DISK WRITEr RATE ?  B Our systems are predominantly READ so we've not seen issues, but IF *guess* that if the situation was reversed, system throughput could be8 affected [but in the name of data and service security].   -- -( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comm   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 18:27:52 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> % Subject: re: raid vs volume shadowing.0 Message-ID: <a27538$1gg@dispatch.concentric.net>  , I am seeing a better "forest for the trees". Thank you all for your input.e   Jim Strehlow, Data911h JimS@Data911.com Alameda, CA, USA   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 07:33:52 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) D Subject: Re: Steve Jobs not affraid to sell his "different" products3 Message-ID: <2sr6AX6x2YLf@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  \ In article <878zaypb8v.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes: > F > Why would you need a driver for a different FS? Or is this a meaning5 > of 'file system' we are yet to love and understand?   F    Traditionally file systems in UNIX were written in the driver, withD    help from a daemon.  A little different from having physical diskD    I/O in the dirver and the file system in the ACP (XQP) as on VMS.  H    But writing a driver on UNIX or VMS provides a documented interface, G    while writing an ACP on VMS uses an unsupported interface documented     outside the vendor's set.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:48:07 +02006I From: Jeff Tichafambanai Munyaradzi <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com> * Subject: Strange erroir message on VMS box2 Message-ID: <3C46D617.8080804@softwarefutures.com>  H Has any of you ever received this error when running an application, or ! know the reason why this happens?   6 %SYSTEM-F-OPCDEC, opcode reserved to Digital fault at   PC=0000000000000004, PS=0000001B   Jeff   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 08:53:46 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box3 Message-ID: <QjVZzuTZS63Q@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  ~ In article <3C46D617.8080804@softwarefutures.com>, Jeff Tichafambanai Munyaradzi <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com> writes:J > Has any of you ever received this error when running an application, or # > know the reason why this happens?e > 8 > %SYSTEM-F-OPCDEC, opcode reserved to Digital fault at " > PC=0000000000000004, PS=0000001B  E Classically, this occurs when you branch "into the weeds" and executesF something that either is not an instruction or is, perhaps, the middle of an instruction.  F The fact that the PC value is 64 bits indicates that you are on Alpha.C Assuming that PC value is accurate (a questionable assumption) then6B you have branched into what is ordinarily the no access guard pageB at the beginning of your process virtual address space.  You wouldB ordinarily expect an access violation to result.  Accordingly, the% accuracy of that PC value is suspect.F  F If you can fire up the application in a debugger or use SDA to examineD the process address space, you could look at the memory at address 4? and see what "instruction" might have been laying around there.h   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:59:23 +0100 = From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>a. Subject: Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box5 Message-ID: <3C46E6CB.47D2A928@contrastmediagroep.nl>n  $ Jeff Tichafambanai Munyaradzi wrote:   > %SYSTEM-F-OPCDEC,  fault ath" > PC=0000000000000004, PS=0000001B  E This message is obviously wrong and should be SYSTEM-F-OPCCPQ, opcodea reserved to COMPAQ.n   :-)o   The official explanation is:  ; OPCDEC,  opcode reserved to Digital fault at PC='location',            PSL='xxxxxxxx'  '   Facility:     SYSTEM, System Servicess  B   Explanation:  The operation code at the indicated address is not known.D                 This message indicates an exception condition and is usually.A                 followed by a display of the condition arguments,a
 registers,7                 and stack at the time of the exception.7  C   User Action:  Examine the PC and virtual address displayed in thee
 message to@                 determine the instruction that caused the error.   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:41:25 -0500e' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>t. Subject: Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box< Message-ID: <howard-30C9D0.12412517012002@enews.newsguy.com>  2 In article <3C46D617.8080804@softwarefutures.com>,E  Jeff Tichafambanai Munyaradzi <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com> (  wrote:   J > Has any of you ever received this error when running an application, or # > know the reason why this happens?  > 8 > %SYSTEM-F-OPCDEC, opcode reserved to Digital fault at " > PC=0000000000000004, PS=0000001B  I In general, it means your app tried to execute some sort of data.  There oB are certain machine instructions which only execute under special I circumstances, such as the HALT instruction requiring kernel mode.  Note eG that the HALT instruction, at least on a VAX, is opcode 00.  Trying to eA execute data in non-existant locations might just look like that.    -- , Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"- Xerox is the anti-Microsoft.  And visa-versa.p   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 02:48:50 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) ( Subject: Re: Strange quorum disk problem= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0201170248.7321b64c@posting.google.com>g  W Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<3C251125.9C5041B6@virgin.net>...n >0? > In that case the simple answer is do it properly and make the:7 > quorum disk a disk all of its own with no other data.P  @ I finally got a chance to do this and reconfigure my RA3000 with? a miniature virtual disk labeled "QUORUM" that contains nothingc but QUORUM.DAT.   C All appears to work properly now during a backup. I do not trust or?G understand in any way, shape, or form why it does (since DKDRIVER has au* special entry point for QUORUM disk QIOs).  J I don't know what will/may happen when the load on the RA3000 increases as a whole.   Many thanks for the responses.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 09:04:27 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)a; Subject: Re: System not see tape drives on a new controllerO0 Message-ID: <a2642r$scl$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  N In article <020116215319.672bd@BILBO.UINDY.EDU>, CINDY@BILBO.UINDY.EDU writes:N >We recently purchased an ES40 Alpha. We then purchased a KZPA controller and J >two 20/40 GB Dat tape drives.  We have installed the controller and tape J >drives.  When we power on the system and do a SHOW CONFIG at the console O >prompt the controller PTB0: and the tape drives MKB500:/MKB600: are there and u >appear to be ok.n >tK >When we boot to the OS level the controller is present but logging parity -< >errors but the tape drive devices are no where to be found. >BJ >Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this could be happening.  Our O >maintenance contract, which is through a local educational consortium, is not e; >yet in effect to I can't log a service call at this point.-  J Are there any configurable jumpers, dip-switches or the like in the tapes?K Did you try to boot with the controller but without the two DATs connected?m< What kind of DAT-drives (manufacturer, model) are you using? Are you aware of SCSI variants?y   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannp  M P.S.: thanks for the technical question, hopefully this newsgroup will return 9       to its technical expertise as it was some time ago.   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:43:53 +0100:7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>s; Subject: RE: System not see tape drives on a new controllersO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6BED@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   K This looks like a VMS error. So you have to look in direction of patches or 
 upgrading to i a higher VMS level.e  6 Please post a follow-up with your current VMS version.   But what I digged up isa" "OpenVMS Configuration RestrictionJ If you have a KZPAC RAID controller, it must be installed in a slot on PCIC bus 1. It cannot be installed on PCI bus 0. See Section 5.12 of thel2 AlphaServer Owner's Guide for PCI slot locations."   Also check this page.MD http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/ases40/ases40_options.html     Jeroen     > -----Original Message-----< > From: CINDY@BILBO.UINDY.EDU [mailto:CINDY@BILBO.UINDY.EDU]& > Sent: donderdag 17 januari 2002 3:53 > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como9 > Subject: System not see tape drives on a new controller- >  > 	 > Hi All,  > @ > We recently purchased an ES40 Alpha. We then purchased a KZPA  > controller and j7 > two 20/40 GB Dat tape drives.  We have installed the - > controller and tape ? > drives.  When we power on the system and do a SHOW CONFIG at   > the console 2 > prompt the controller PTB0: and the tape drives   > MKB500:/MKB600: are there and  > appear to be ok. > = > When we boot to the OS level the controller is present but s > logging parity a= > errors but the tape drive devices are no where to be found.s > ; > Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this could be e > happening.  Our = > maintenance contract, which is through a local educational e > consortium, is not  < > yet in effect to I can't log a service call at this point. > ( > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > 	 > Thanks.s > @ > ************************************************************** > ***************0; > Cindy Steinmetz                                  E-Mail: h > steinmetz@.uindy.edu3 > Director of Administrative Computing Services    o > System@Bilbo.Uindy.EduF > University of Indianapolis                       Fax: (317) 788-3300> > 1400 E Hanna Avenue                              Telephone:  > (317) 788-3361 > Indianapolis, IN  46227-3630@ > ************************************************************** > ***************nD >          In Music there is harmony .... In harmony there is peace.@ > ************************************************************** > ***************d >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:13:44 +0100T9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>m; Subject: Re: System not see tape drives on a new controller6' Message-ID: <3C46A3D8.81322C88@aaa.com>g   Hi.o  KZPA is a RAID controller, not ?  1 I'd use a normal SCSI controller for tape drives.m Simpler and cost less.  - If I read correctly, tapes and CD-rom are nota0 even supported on the KZPA(C) RAID controller...   Jan-Erik Sderholm.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:37:15 +0000e% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t; Subject: Re: System not see tape drives on a new controlleru8 Message-ID: <p1ad4uogmvljnlolhugqa9me6jc9rhur7b@4ax.com>  @ On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:53:19 -0500, CINDY@BILBO.UINDY.EDU wrote:   >Hi All, >sN >We recently purchased an ES40 Alpha. We then purchased a KZPA controller and J >two 20/40 GB Dat tape drives.  We have installed the controller and tape J >drives.  When we power on the system and do a SHOW CONFIG at the console O >prompt the controller PTB0: and the tape drives MKB500:/MKB600: are there and   >appear to be ok.- > K >When we boot to the OS level the controller is present but logging parity e< >errors but the tape drive devices are no where to be found.   Try 9 $ mcr sysman io connect mkb500:/noada/driver=sys$mkdriver 9 $ mcr sysman io connect mkb600:/noada/driver=sys$mkdriverd  @ I've used this to force unrecognised tape devices online before.    J >Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this could be happening.  Our O >maintenance contract, which is through a local educational consortium, is not a; >yet in effect to I can't log a service call at this point.h > ' >Any help would be greatly appreciated.  >' >Thanks. >dN >*****************************************************************************N >Cindy Steinmetz                                  E-Mail: steinmetz@.uindy.eduH >Director of Administrative Computing Services    System@Bilbo.Uindy.EduE >University of Indianapolis                       Fax: (317) 788-3300 K >1400 E Hanna Avenue                              Telephone: (317) 788-3361n >Indianapolis, IN  46227-3630eN >*****************************************************************************C >         In Music there is harmony .... In harmony there is peace.oN >*****************************************************************************   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:55:25 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> - Subject: TCPIP services QIO readvblk questionp, Message-ID: <3C46BB8D.146120B8@videotron.ca>   Simple question:  L I read data from a server somewhere. Server disconnects the link when it has finished sending the data.  J Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last byte has been read ?  J Or is it possible that the last IO will contain the last bit of data AND a= status code indicating link was dosconnected (SS$_LINKDOSCON)   N Preliminary testing indicates that the data is all read with SS$_NORMAL, but I% am not 100% sure if this is reliable.L  L Subsequent reads yield SS$_LINKDOSCONN, but also a byte count of 32 ! (seems/ to be nulls since printf prints a null string).-  P What is the explanation of the iosb count value of 32 when a read did not work ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:29:54 -0500r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>r4 Subject: Re: TCPIP: logging of all incoming requests3 Message-ID: <b6C18.95251$Z2.1351582@nnrp1.uunet.ca>   2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C466010.99812FC7@videotron.ca... >...J > If you enter a valid username but invalid password, then the username is listed.t >a8 > But if you enter an invalid username and some passwordJ > for instance: user^: jarjarbinx with password r2d2,  then the audit will only
 > show <user>c >...  L I recall somewhere around V5.4 that once the user reached a certain level ofK invalid tries the username (and password???) was written to the audit file.tL This may have changed by now, and it may also be different if you are comingG in on a LAT port, TCPIP, serial line... The instance I remember is wheng; someone found a modem that was directly attached to a 8530.r  L Actually, I just tried it her using both SET HOST and TELNET (TCPWare), onceI the LOGFAIL becomes BREAKIN the security audtor starts to record both the 2 username and the password. Using V7.3 on an Alpha.  J I assume the reason that LOGFAIL does not record the username, but BREAKINJ does is that occassionally users (OK, me, at least once a month) enter theE username before the terminal is ready to accept input, then enter the L password and finds that the password was typed at the username prompt. I aneF quite happy that this first failure is not stored in the audit file :)> 17-JAN-2002 10:18:42.36 LOGFAIL REMOTE TSTBED <login> 00000481> 17-JAN-2002 10:18:44.73 LOGFAIL REMOTE TSTBED <login> 00000481> 17-JAN-2002 10:18:47.22 LOGFAIL REMOTE TSTBED <login> 00000481> 17-JAN-2002 10:19:08.44 LOGFAIL REMOTE TSTBED <login> 00000482> 17-JAN-2002 10:19:10.32 LOGFAIL REMOTE TSTBED <login> 00000482: 17-JAN-2002 10:19:13.75 BREAKIN REMOTE TSTBED ASD 00000482     --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:50:10 -0700 4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>' Subject: VMS Basic Scalability QuestionR1 Message-ID: <ToC18.2164$K8.31213@news.uswest.net>s  H I have written an IP Server in VMS Basic that performs a lot of RMS fileH operations.  The clients are all synchronous with respect to the server,A i.e., they send a command and wait for a complete response beforesL continuing.  Due to string length constraints, the server sends back partialG responses as it calculates them.  The IP interface uses the SYS$QIO andl; SYS$QIOW entry points for setup and send/receive operationse  K My question is this: which would scale better.  Having the server use $QIOWtL to send the response or having the server use $QIO and then later explicitlyL wait for the $QIO to finish.  I have included the pseudo code of the current and proposed versions:   CURRENT (complete code works):  
 do while true D     IpIn = read(client_socket, wait)           // $QIOW with EFN = 0     if len(IpIn) = 0 then exit.     SendToClient(client_socket, process(IpIn)) loop  $ sub SendToClient(client_socket, msg)L     send(client_socket, msg, len(msg), wait)        // Uses $QIOW with EFN = 0  end subn  	 PROPOSED:   
 do while truel     Set Send FlagUG     IpIn = read(client_socket, wait)              // $QIOW with EFN = 0f.     SendToClient(client_socket, process(IpIn))     Wait for Send Flag loop  $ sub SendToClient(client_socket, msg)     Wait for Send FlagH     send(client_socket, msg, len(msg), nowait)         // Would use $QIO with EFN = Send Flag end subn     ///////iL In either case, the routine process(IpIn) may call SendToClient periodicallyK throughout it's operation.  In the first case, it will have to wait for thewH IPSend to complete, possibly giving VMS the time to reuse any disk cacheG buffers.  In the second case, it will only need to wait if the previousiL IPSend hasn't completed yet, reducing the chance the disk cache buffers will have been overwritten.   ////// Platform information: 7   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.1-6   on a AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB running OpenVMS V7.3   Dual processor systemo=   Executive Software's IO Express is used for disk buffering.      -- Thanks,n
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 08:45:50 -0800- From: michael_e_price@talk21.com (Mike Price)a+ Subject: VMS person looking for a job in UK ; Message-ID: <f2c2207.0201170845.5495a56@posting.google.com>t   Sorry to bother you all BUT   @ I am looking for a job in the UK - specifically in of near NorthF Wales, Liverpool or Manchester - or similar. I have 20 years experince! in IT and at least 9 years on VMSh  & Lots of experience in (amongst others) VMS system building and tuning DECnet (phase 4 and 5) TCP/IP (UCX as was)4E COBOL (including 'techie' programs with lots of QIO and simlar systema	 services)i LATe DECforms SYSGEN etc etc
 VAX and Alphao	 and so ond  E If anyone knows of any jobs that are - or might be available in thesel' areas I would be grateful for a messagep     Thanks for reading  
 Mike Price   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 04:34 CSTc' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)o/ Subject: Re: What has happened to HELP SPECIFY?y- Message-ID: <17JAN200204341000@gerg.tamu.edu>e  f In article <3c45f3fe.266167799@news.wlg.netlink.net.nz>, martin.hunt@inl.co.nz (Martin Hunt) writes...D }The topic says it all, really. I upgraded from V7.1 to V7.3 on VAX,C }and have just discovered that HELP SPECIFY has gone. When did thiseB }disappear (V7.2 or V7.3), and why? I always found this useful forE }checking out the syntax of date and time (particularly delta times),u
 }for example.0 }  }--- }Martin Hunt   Check out HELP DCL_Tips.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:07:29 GMT 5 From: jeverett@wwa.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.com (John Everett) 2 Subject: Re: why case independence came into being9 Message-ID: <RMB18.1380$Kf.21517@ord-read.news.verio.net>l   In article pK <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201132149550.8412-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>, s mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU says... >oI >Then the developers of VMS built their filesystem, and it was ASCII, andaE >they had full ASCII terminals.  But they had aggressive contempt forc >anything done by anyone else.  J See above for the most factually accurate statement in the entire article.   :-)n   -- nF jeverett<AT>wwa<DOT>com (John Everett)    http://www.wwa.com/~jeverett   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:37:45 -0800 (PST)<. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories@ Message-ID: <20020117113745.74807.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>  / I would like to know why I cant move between=20o directories using wildcards:   $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]     For exampleo   Regardsi   FC=20l2 --- Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote:5 > In article <3C46346D.9020504@qsl.network>, "John E.t( > Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: >=204 > > The 8 directory limit is for versions of OpenVMS > older than 7.2.  ODS-2=20 2 > > is still limited to 255 characters for a total > path specification.  > >=203 > > I am not aware of the specific reasoning behindt > the older limitations. >=20" > $ search sys$library:starlet.req# nam$v_wild_sfd,included/match=3Dands     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Dv F=E1bio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil- fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D:  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?& Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/a   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:04:27 +0100 (MET)i9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories; Message-ID: <01KD6FV5EK4S8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>d  / > I would like to know why I cant move between   > directories using wildcards: >  > $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]  G Easy: what if there is more than one match?  It's easy enough to write  D some DCL in your CD.COM or whatever to move to a directory if it is E unique and, if not, to print a list (perhaps to be selected with the   mouse).k  I Similarly: editing more than one file doesn't make sense.  In this case, 9D it might make sense to edit them one after another---certainly many - folks have written DCL procedures to do this.n  F Perhaps all DCL commands for which this would make sense could have a I new qualifyer---/ITERATIVE perhaps.  It would then repeat the command on eH the list of files corresponding to the filespec (list and/or wildcards).   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 06:23 CSTd' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)sB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories- Message-ID: <17JAN200206230041@gerg.tamu.edu>e  = Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes... 0 }> I would like to know why I cant move between  }> directories using wildcards:n }> r }> $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]n } H }Easy: what if there is more than one match?  It's easy enough to write E }some DCL in your CD.COM or whatever to move to a directory if it is  F }unique and, if not, to print a list (perhaps to be selected with the  }mouse). } J }Similarly: editing more than one file doesn't make sense.  In this case, E }it might make sense to edit them one after another---certainly many T. }folks have written DCL procedures to do this.  C Interestingly enough, the LSE editor allows you to use wildcards in./ filenames. It opens the first one that matches.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:23:01 -0500 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories. Message-ID: <3C46D035.3EC8677E@mindspring.com>   Fabio Cardoso wrote:  . > I would like to know why I cant move between > directories using wildcards: >m > $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]  = Ask the more-general question of "So How's Command-Completion|8 Coming?" *THAT* is probably the feature you really want.  > I wonder why VMS never implemented this very-frequently-asked- for feature???   Atlant   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 07:42:14 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)eB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories3 Message-ID: <SoF5mrkfvIUm@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  q In article <20020117113745.74807.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes: 1 > I would like to know why I cant move between=20O > directories using wildcards: >  > $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*] >   E    Funny, I do it all the time.  Oh, yeah, I modified somebody else's 4    SD.COM years ago, just like nearly everyone else.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:15:09 -0700c+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>pB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories' Message-ID: <3C46F88D.5090806@mmaz.com>I   Fabio Cardoso wrote:  . >I would like to know why I cant move between  >directories using wildcards:  >e >$ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]e > ? Why must everything be 'built-in' to the system?  Ever here of  * 'bloat-ware' commonly marketed as Windows?  ? What you ask can easily be handled in a DCL procedure such as :l   $!+t $!  DOWN.COM $! $!  @DOWN [dir-root] $! $!-d $   set noon* $   olddef = "''f$environment("default")'" $   subdir = "''p1'" $ loop: 1 $   if f$length(subdir) .eq. 0 then $   goto exit.$ $   period = 'f$locate(".", subdir)' $   dirlen = 'f$length(subdir)' 6 $   if period .eq. dirlen then $   period = period + 1. $   dirnam = "''f$extract(0, period, subdir)'"? $   subdir = "''f$extract(period+1, f$length(subdir), subdir)'" + $   truedir = "''f$search(dirnam+"*.dir")'"l5 $   if f$length(truedir) .eq. 0 then $   goto bad_dir - $   set def [.'f$parse(truedir, , , "name")'] 
 $   goto loopu $ exit:a $   show def $   exit
 $ bad_dir:C $   write sys$output "Invalid or non-existent directory search for  
 ''dirnam' in"0< $   write sys$output "directory ''f$environment("default")'" $   set def 'olddef' $   show def $   exit V4100$   Barryg   -- e  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:10:55 -0800-% From: Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com>*B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories) Message-ID: <3C4713AF.E3EE42CA@rdrop.com>i   Phillip Helbig wrote:* > ; > Similarly: editing more than one file doesn't make sense.*  E It doesn't?  In building a report program, I frequently copy a set of4B files from an existing template, then need to change the makefile,G source, SQLMOD, CLD...  We have a multi-buffer editor based on TPU thatD lets me type   $ KED SOME_REPORT*.*   and open all the files at once.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.032 ************************