0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 18 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 33      Contents:P 744           Would you like to lose weight while you sleep?                  45! add node in DSSI cluster question 4 Another VMS partner - Ohio - just got this via email8 Re: Another VMS partner - Ohio - just got this via email Asking  your opinion Re: Asking  your opinion5 Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows! 9 Re: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows! 4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 RE: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 RE: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today4 Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today> Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the< Re: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languages8 Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languages< Re: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languages Change quorum disk question " Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business" Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Business4 Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report1 Re: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ) Re: Heads up: Compaq financial statements + HP explains the decision to axe the HP 3000 B Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqB Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq microshaft lookout OT:  Buffer Overflows + Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?  RE: Pro merger Purge of Compaq's board?( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof% Questions about VIOC on VMS 7.3 Alpha ) Re: Questions about VIOC on VMS 7.3 Alpha  Re: Queue problems Re: raid vs volume shadowingP Rise and Fall of the Magaloids (was Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financ% Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box P Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The d( Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk question( Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk question( Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk question( Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk question; Unix under attack ... again!  Needs Bills security plan ... " Re: VMS Basic Scalability Question" Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) 7 Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS) , You want security windows users ... use VMS!P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of compP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of compB Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demB Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demP Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:46:45 ( From: 464593travelincentives2002@aol.comY Subject: 744           Would you like to lose weight while you sleep?                  45 9 Message-ID: <iss.39eb.3c472ef5.d90aa.1@mx2.east.saic.com>   6  As seen on NBC, CBS, CNN, and even Oprah! The health : discovery that actually reverses aging while burning fat, < without dieting or exercise! This proven discovery has even 9 been reported on by the New England Journal of Medicine.  : Forget  aging and dieting forever! And it's Guaranteed!      Click here:  http://ultimatehgh.81832.com  . Would you like to lose weight while you sleep! No dieting!  No hunger pains! No Cravings! No strenuous exercise! Change your life forever!    100% GUARANTEED!  + 1.Body Fat Loss            82% improvement. ( 2.Wrinkle Reduction     61% improvement.- 3.Energy Level               84% improvement. * 4.Muscle Strength         88% improvement.+ 5.Sexual Potency           75% improvement. * 6.Emotional Stability     67% improvement.0 7.Memory                        62% improvement.  ; ***********************************************************   . Click here to see another weight loss product: http://weighout.81832.com   , You are receiving this email as a subscriber$ to the Opt-In America Mailing List. . To remove yourself from all related maillists, just click here:/ mailto:pac2server@btamail.net.cn?Subject=REMOVE    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:13:57 +0000 1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> * Subject: add node in DSSI cluster question- Message-ID: <3C474CA5.B82B61A9@starpower.net>   F I have my DSSI cluster up and running.  One node, "A", a 4000/106A andC a quorum disk, $2$dia0.  I want to add the next member, node "B", a  second  E 4000/106A.  I ran "cluster_config" and it created a "sys1" directory.   G On node B the system disk is DIB0.  How do I boot node B?  If I just do 8 "boot dib0" will it try to boot from the sys0 directory?   Thanks Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:46:45 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com>= Subject: Another VMS partner - Ohio - just got this via email 1 Message-ID: <NBH18.163$PZ4.1605@news.cpqcorp.net>   J XLNsystems (XLN) was founded on January 19, 1991 by Allen G. Perk. For theG next 5 years Mr. Perk delivered software consulting to both private and I governmental clients.  In August of 1996, David E. McMahon joined XLN and J the firm incorporated under the laws of the State of Ohio. Our mission hasJ been and continues to be "To provide experienced and professional softwareL consulting services to help our clients achieve their Information Technology goals". H  XLN grew to four consultants in 1997, then grew to eight consultants inL 1999, and today stands at: nine consultants; two marketing people; three subE contractors; and five strategic corporate partners. XLN's consultants ; average over 18 years of Information Technology experience.   I  The focus of our business, software consulting services, encompasses the @ entire software life cycle including: Analysis, Coding, Testing,K Implementation, and Maintenance.  Through our strategic partnerships we can : offer a wider array of both IT consulting and IT training.  J  Over 85% of XLN's business is OpenVMS (for both VAX and ALPHA platforms).K Other core competencies include; Microsoft OS such as Windows98, WindowsNT, J and WindowsXP, as well as strategic management procedures such as securityJ audits and disaster recovery. We also offer licensure and maintenance on a number of software products.  J At XLNsystems we pride ourselves on customer satisfaction. Over ninety-sixL percent of our clients were so pleased with our service that they elected to* rehire XLNsystems for additional projects.  G We have had a State Term Contract with the State of Ohio for the last 3 J years and are presently in the process of applying for a GSA schedule withH the United States Government. Our current plans are to grow 40% over the next 18 months.   H  XLNsystems, Inc. is currently located at 6600 Busch Blvd, Suite 230, in Columbus, Ohio 43229.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:45:50 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> A Subject: Re: Another VMS partner - Ohio - just got this via email ' Message-ID: <3C479B55.88374C9D@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > K > XLNsystems (XLN) was founded on January 19, 1991 by Allen G. Perk. [snip]   H I was wondering if you could work with Ken Farmer to build up an on-line repository for such nuggets...  & Ken and/or Sue: What can I do to help?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:37:27 -0500 2 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.com> Subject: Asking  your opinion 1 Message-ID: <2tH18.162$PZ4.1506@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dear Newsgroup  K I am looking at doing Technical Update Days again this year.  The following J is the list of topics.  Locations have not been decided.  I am asking yourH opinion on what you think of  these topics and if there is something youL really feel is missing.  Please keep in mind that this is a technical event,L not marketing so a session on OpenVMS in Advertising is not going to happen.? The local office/ambassador helps pick the topics for the area.    I value your feedback.  
 Warm Regards,  Sue       OpenVMS Strategy and directions, Executive Lunch   ! OpenVMS and IPF systems (base OS)   ' Porting Applications to OpenVMS Itanium    OpenVMS Technical update  L Installing an OpenVMS Galaxy LAB - Hands on - one full day limited to 16 per day    Advanced Server update  . Trouble shooting Advanced Server and PATHWORKS  - Advanced Server and PATHWORKS Hints and Kinks    TCP/IP and IPV6 Update  E Best Practices for VMS Performance for 2002 proven tools, techniques, 
 approaches   OpenVMS Hints and Kinks    OpenVMS Availability Manager  5 Volume Shadowing Minicopy and HSG80 Mini Merge A-to-Z   < Comparing Measured Performance of V7.3 Cluster Interconnects  F Using the V7.3 SCACP utility to Manage troubleshoot LAN based clusters  @ Integration of OpenVMS Data & Applications (web enabling) - Apps  4 Compaq Secure Web Server (Apache) with Tomcat - Apps   DII COE   3 Making OpenVMS attractive to Port UNIX Applications    OpenVMS Graphics Workstations    Systems Directions and roadmap   Server Consolidation   Security/DT    Storageworks roadmap  
 Console Works   7 Installing and Configuring Fibre Channel Storage on VMS   & VAX to Alpha coexistence and migration  
 Oracle RDB   CHARON-VAX emulator    SRI International    Linker   OpenVMS Middleware strategy   % Storage and SAN implementation on VMS    Update on Java on OpenVMS   * Introductions to OpenVMS Freeware Packages    Introduction to SAMBA on OpenVMS  ! Transaction Processing on OpenVMS   
 RMS Update  ) SMP/IO Performance enhancements and Plans   A How will you introduce Alpha-IPF in your environment - discussion           & begin 666 Launch Microsoft Outlook.lnk= M3 ````$4`@``````P ```````$:K````(0````!(QD%B*;X!@/PK#J.$P $` = M2,9!8BF^`3'@`````````0```````````````````*T`% `?4.!/T"#J.FD0 = MHM@(`"LP,)T9`"-#.EP``````````````````````/'3)0`Q```````A*8^( = M,0!0<F]G<F%M($9I;&5S`%!23T=207XQ`"@`,0``````LBA$;A `36EC<F]S = M;V9T($]F9FEC90!-24-23U-^,@`6`#$``````#8J6FT0`$]F9FEC90``&P`R = M`#'@``"1)2H1(0!/551,3T]++D5810````!I````' ````$````<````,P`` = M``````!H````%P````,```!C2KYX$ ```%-94U1%30!#.EQ0<F]G<F%M($9I = M;&5S7$UI8W)O<V]F="!/9F9I8V5<3V9F:6-E7$]55$Q/3TLN15A%``!#`"X` = M+@!<`"X`+@!<`"X`+@!<`"X`+@!<`"X`+@!<`"X`+@!<`% `<@!O`&<`<@!A = M`&T`( !&`&D`; !E`',`7 !-`&D`8P!R`&\`<P!O`&8`= `@`$\`9@!F`&D` = M8P!E`%P`3P!F`&8`:0!C`&4`7 !/`%4`5 !,`$\`3P!+`"X`10!8`$4`"0`@ = M`"\`<@!E`&,`>0!C`&P`90`0````!0``H"8```!2````8 ````,``*!8```` = M`````&]S<V<M<VMO;F5T<VMI- !&JP#-ALJ"396,8=6G7JE]@)GG,)?PU!&) = K\ "0)ZR[!4:K`,V&RH)-E8QAU:=>J7V F><PE_#4$8GP`) GK+L%````````  `  end    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:19:52 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Asking  your opinion ' Message-ID: <3C479547.75BECD5A@fsi.net>    Sue Skonetski wrote: > [snip]5 > Making OpenVMS attractive to Port UNIX Applications   0 Is this a presentation or OpenVMS seeking input?  * If a presentation, it may have some value.  > If OpenVMS seeking input, will any of our "suggestions" make a difference?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:33:23 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)> Subject: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171133.7e5267b3@posting.google.com>   " as we didn't know this already ...    Gates Finally Discovers Security   by Michelle Delio   ( Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:50 p.m. EST  D Bill Gates' memo to Microsoft employees urging an increased focus onA security is a welcome development, but may also be too little too ) late, according to some security experts.   D In a memo sent to Microsoft's 47,000 employees this week, Gates, theD company's chief software engineer, called for a fundamental shift inE Microsoft's product development that will put consumers' security and > privacy concerns ahead of adding new features to the company's	 products.   ? Gates said in a press statement that the points outlined in his B security memo are as critical to Microsoft's future success as theC infamous Internet "tidal wave" e-mails he circulated in 1995. Those C e-mails declared the Internet was the future of computing and urged B Microsoft to build Internet capabilities into all of its products.  : Gates' memo outlined a plan to stop development of all newC operating-system software for the entire month of February and send E the company's 7,000 systems programmers to special security training, , according to a report in The New York Times.  @ While many computer security experts consider this week's memo aA positive sign Gates and Microsoft might finally be ready to fully B focus on security, they also wondered how and when Microsoft wouldE implement the new security initiatives, and whether the company would B be able to correct the problems in products that have already been	 released.   = Other experts believe the Gates memo is no more than a public C relations stunt meant to calm the rising tide of media and consumer B frustration over security problems, and said that a full review ofD Microsoft products' programming code by independent experts would be5 the only real way to assure the products were secure.   8 Some peppered their comments with considerable sarcasm.   ? "Undoubtedly, history will remember Jan. 16, 2002, as Microsoft @ Security Day -- harkening back to that wondrous day in 1995 when@ Chairman Gates announced that the Internet was to be part of allF Microsoft products and services," said Richard Forno, chief technology% officer at security firm Shadowlogic.t  B "That proclamation produced such well-known Redmond innovations asF Melissa, I Love You, Code Red, SirCam, Code Red II, BadTrans, UPnP and> VBScript, among other notables, resulting in burned-out system@ administrators and a flourishing information security industry."  F Last month, a hole found in the new Universal Plug and Play feature in@ Windows XP prompted the FBI's National Infrastructure ProtectionC Center (NIPC) to issue a warning urging Windows XP users to disabley< the feature, which was intended to make it easier to install peripherals on a computer.  ? The NIPC also got involved when Code Red, a worm that allowed aoE malicious hacker to gain complete remote access to infected computerss< by exploiting a hole in Microsoft's Web server software, was discovered last summer.t  C The Code Red worm inspired the Gartner consulting firm to release an> report advising corporations not to use Microsoft's Web server	 software.n  ? Microsoft has repeatedly issued statements noting that securityeD patches are released prior to hackers actually exploiting holes, but> the Gartner report stated that the cost of keeping up with and# applying these patches is too high.Q  F Forno said other security professionals with whom he has discussed theC Gates memo have had two reactions to the announcement: "Too little,n@ too late," or "We'll see how well it happens ... if it happens."  + Forno said he agrees with both sentiments. t  C "While I am always hopeful that 'security' and 'Microsoft' will onelD day be seen not as an oxymoron, past observation leads me to believe> the Gates declaration is full of marketing sound and fury, but  signifying nothing," Forno said.  : Many security experts do believe that Gates' memo marked aB constructive change for Microsoft, but all agreed that the company1 should have begun focusing on security years ago.u  B "I wouldn't be too quick to put this down just as a media tactic,"D Mikko Hypp&#246;nen, Manager of Anti-Virus Research at F-Secure. "IfD this memo changes the attitude of the architects and developers even3 just a little, it's doing exactly the right thing."S  C "And I believe the message is simple enough and promoting the right F attitude: 'When we face a choice between adding features and resolvingC security issues, we need to choose security.' I just wish MicrosoftC> had been following this attitude when IIS, IE and Outlook were designed," Hypp&#246;nen said.  B "Seems to me like Gates and company are pretty serious. All of the@ recent problems have to be a real embarrassment to the company,"B Richard Smith, an independent security consultant, said. "The bestE indicator that this is a big deal is that fact that they are going too; shut down OS development ... to have a security boot camp."l  C But Smith said that educating developers on security issues is onlys part of the puzzle.d  E "They also need to put together tiger teams, which work independentlyiE of the developers to find security holes before products ship," Smithc? said. "If folks like Georgi Guninski can find security holes ini@ Microsoft products, why can't Microsoft? Better to catch and fix@ security holes before products ship instead of after they ship."  E Microsoft had touted XP as its most secure operating system ever whenrF the system was released last October. Two significant holes have since been discovered in the system.  B "It's just too soon to tell how secure XP is," said Graham Cluley,? senior technology consultant for Sophos Anti-Virus. "How do youdC measure security anyway? The number of viruses for the platform? In D that case, yes -- the number of Win XP specific viruses is currentlyC insignificant, although backwards compatibility means many old ones  work just fine."  < Experts all agreed that Microsoft will have a difficult time> implementing real security into the company's products without3 impacting on functions that users take for granted.l  C "The fundamental tension for Microsoft has been one of security vs.rF functionality," Cluley said. "Historically, functionality has won thatE battle as marketing departments have found it easier to sell productsn@ on the basis of what new bells and whistles they have -- talkingF paperclip anyone? -- rather than on what the program doesn't allow you to do."   F One key challenge for Microsoft will be determining appropriate levelsC of security that suit the widely disparate needs of its users, saidoE Sue Mosher, an independent Outlook consultant. Microsoft can't simplye@ begin locking down all the features that malicious hackers could exploit.  E "For example, system administrators have largely embraced the tightereF security that Microsoft has introduced into Outlook 2002, but many endE users -- particularly power users -- are screaming bloody murder thatsD they don't need Microsoft as their nanny," Mosher said. "This is not> just a technical issue for Microsoft, but a societal issue forE everyone, parallel to the evolution in airport security that airlines ( and travelers are currently undergoing."  C Mosher suggested that Microsoft should discuss security issues with-? those who use the company's products as well as its developers.l  F "Too much security can be just as costly as too little," Mosher said.   ? Many security experts also saw Gates' memo as an admission that74 Microsoft hasn't done enough to secure its products.  @ "One would have assumed that 'security first' should have been aD priority in the past for the MS products," Marquis Grove of SecurityA News Portal, said. "The fact that the CEO now has to recommit hisfD troops to this essential element in any hardware or software product@ leaves us to wonder what the priorities were previously that had% pushed security into the background."e  ? Security experts also wondered how Microsoft planned to correctnD security problems in existing products. Some suggested that the onlyC way users could be assured that Microsoft products are secure is ifrF the company allows outside experts to review the products' programming codes.  > "Given the decades-old proprietary patchwork of many Microsoft8 products, the only way to truly certify that Microsoft'sD internationally-developed products are indeed secure and trustworthy= is to release the code to the security community at large for: analysis," Forno said.  D "However, in a small act of penance, Microsoft could consider firingB those product managers that repeatedly sacrifice security and goodB quality assurance for new product features, convenience and marketF share, thus setting an example for corporate accountability instead of problem perpetuation."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:34:07 GMTn= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)SB Subject: Re: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows!0 Message-ID: <00A082FD.3F354B77@SendSpamHere.ORG>  h In article <d7791aa1.0201171133.7e5267b3@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:# >as we didn't know this already ...  >e! >Gates Finally Discovers Securityl >  >by Michelle Delio >s) >Thursday, January 17, 2002 1:50 p.m. EST- >-E >Bill Gates' memo to Microsoft employees urging an increased focus onSB >security is a welcome development, but may also be too little too* >late, according to some security experts. > E >In a memo sent to Microsoft's 47,000 employees this week, Gates, theoE >company's chief software engineer, called for a fundamental shift ini"                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^< ... and which university bestowed this title upon Mr. Gates?  % AFAIK, Billy had no technical degree.o   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            rJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:40:55 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todayL< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171140.9624bef@posting.google.com>  z "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<6UB18.81003$Sj1.31915184@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>...0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message: > news:WbB18.206705$pa1.56811437@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...L > > So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxes for  > > retail sale as "WindowsVMS"? > >XL > > It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in the existing Windows-family >  o/s > >n) > > MSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.i > 6 > First off, Compaq's gotta be willing to sell the OS. > L > Second, there's the matter of porting the OS to a mainstream platform. TheH > VMS-to-IPF port is nowhere near a done deal yet, nor is affordable IPFE > hardware. Until a "player" for the OS exists, WindowsVMS would be at* > CompactFlash module in an 8-track world. > L > Third, porting the OS itself would be trivial in comparison to porting all > the current Windoze apps...l  G this is beginning to smell like a sellout on all ends ... ev7 will liveeJ long enough until intel and bill catch up w/performance/security ... whichJ should be about 5-10 years ... Palmer and Capellas gave away vms and alphaK technology for practically free and were paid off to do it, but played dumb0J and stupid on all the botched legal agreements and settlements ... this isH why vms needs to get away from compaq or hp or any pc crony ... where isK IBM?  They have a chance to dominate the high end for decades if they wouldf just buy Alpha/VMS!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:05:53 -0600n+ From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>r= Subject: RE: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today-L Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E123@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com]  > > why vms needs to get away from compaq or hp or any pc crony  > ... where is@ > IBM?  They have a chance to dominate the high end for decades  > if they would0 > just buy Alpha/VMS!   I hate to be the one to say this, but if IBM just sets still and does nothing, they'll still dominate the high-end for decades.  HP is throwing out their high-end.  Sun is somewhat behind these days.  SGI (though they've made some steps in the right direction recently) has a lot of catching up to do from the days when they _were_ flirting with intel.  Who else will be there to challenge IBM in the high end?  e Oh yeah -- Cray's actually doing pretty well, but I don't think that's the "high end" that you meant.   If IBM bought VMS, it would give them a flexible, rock-solid, general purpose O/S.  It would not, though, give them a chance to dominate the high end.  They already have that.  Whether VMS lives isn't likely to make a bit of difference either, since even in the best conditions, HPAQ would have too much catching up to do in terms of software support and customer good will (!), and couldn't hope to be "dominant."  B Just my opinion, of course.  Shannon Probably Knows Better Than I.   Regards,   Chrisi    ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");o 'c      ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:21:18 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today > Message-ID: <2nG18.81099$Sj1.32063838@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  8 "Christopher Smith" <csmith@amdocs.com> wrote in messageF news:3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E123@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com... > > -----Original Message-----: > > From: bob@instantwhip.com [mailto:bob@instantwhip.com] >o? > > why vms needs to get away from compaq or hp or any pc cronya > > ... where isA > > IBM?  They have a chance to dominate the high end for decadesA > > if they would  > > just buy Alpha/VMS!  >nG > I hate to be the one to say this, but if IBM just sets still and doesBI nothing, they'll still dominate the high-end for decades.  HP is throwingPL out their high-end.  Sun is somewhat behind these days.  SGI (though they'veL made some steps in the right direction recently) has a lot of catching up toH do from the days when they _were_ flirting with intel.  Who else will be' there to challenge IBM in the high end?! >#L > Oh yeah -- Cray's actually doing pretty well, but I don't think that's the "high end" that you meant. >,G > If IBM bought VMS, it would give them a flexible, rock-solid, general]K purpose O/S.  It would not, though, give them a chance to dominate the high K end.  They already have that.  Whether VMS lives isn't likely to make a bit)L of difference either, since even in the best conditions, HPAQ would have tooJ much catching up to do in terms of software support and customer good will( (!), and couldn't hope to be "dominant." >!D > Just my opinion, of course.  Shannon Probably Knows Better Than I.  J Well, if I *really* knew, I wouldn't be sitting here writing my newsletterK or scavenging the Web for information. I'd be happily retired. I doubt that`I HPAQ, even under the best of conditions, will ever achieve "dominance" (a0E term no vendor likes to use, hence they dumb it down to "leadership")u vis-a-vis IBM.  I I still believe that a merged company could compete more effectively withrK IBM, particularly several years down the road. Software support is an issuetI that can be dealt with more readily than the other missing element of theaL equation. At CPQ and HWP "Good Will Hunting" should be more than a movie, it" should be a high-priority mission.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:04:29 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists today3> Message-ID: <h7G18.81093$Sj1.32055071@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message-6 news:d7791aa1.0201171140.9624bef@posting.google.com...A > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageu: news:<6UB18.81003$Sj1.31915184@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>...2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message< > > news:WbB18.206705$pa1.56811437@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...J > > > So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxes for " > > > retail sale as "WindowsVMS"? > > >o? > > > It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws in the existingl Windows-family > >  o/s > > >i+ > > > MSLP $499, dealers may sell for less.o > >r8 > > First off, Compaq's gotta be willing to sell the OS. > > J > > Second, there's the matter of porting the OS to a mainstream platform. TheuJ > > VMS-to-IPF port is nowhere near a done deal yet, nor is affordable IPFG > > hardware. Until a "player" for the OS exists, WindowsVMS would be as, > > CompactFlash module in an 8-track world. > > J > > Third, porting the OS itself would be trivial in comparison to porting allo > > the current Windoze apps...p > I > this is beginning to smell like a sellout on all ends ... ev7 will livenL > long enough until intel and bill catch up w/performance/security ... whichL > should be about 5-10 years ... Palmer and Capellas gave away vms and alphaH > technology for practically free and were paid off to do it, but played dumbL > and stupid on all the botched legal agreements and settlements ... this isJ > why vms needs to get away from compaq or hp or any pc crony ... where is > IBM?  5 Armonk, New York. And just about everywhere else. ;-}p  G > They have a chance to dominate the high end for decades if they woulde > just buy Alpha/VMS!a  L Yeah, if they get NSK along with it, they'd pretty much have everything sewnI up. I wouldn't be surprised if the *real* reason for the proposed HewlettfF PAQard merger is to yield a firm that's big enough to compete with IBM several years down the road.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:35:31 -0600 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>,= Subject: RE: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todaynL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E126@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net]t  ; > I still believe that a merged company could compete more h > effectively with   I'm sure they could.  On the other hand, "could" implies a correct set of circumstances, which I sometimes doubt their ability to achieve (or even accept as necessary)...  : > IBM, particularly several years down the road. Software  > support is an issuev= > that can be dealt with more readily than the other missing a > element of the> > equation. At CPQ and HWP "Good Will Hunting" should be more  > than a movie, it$ > should be a high-priority mission.   Yep. :)e   So... slightly off-topic, has anyone got some idea how to make microshaft lookout chop my lines up into 80-character chunks?  These mile-long lines are even annoying me.p   Regards,   Chris   ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developerw Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");o 'a  s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:35:27 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)c= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todayn7 Message-ID: <9199A86C8warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>k  G simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wroter, in <AfF0s8hQ7h$9@eisner.encompasserve.org>:   1 >The latest memo from Bill Gates can be found at:n >c2 >http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23715.html > B >According to him, no Trustworthy Computing platform exists today. >e= >Here's some extracts from his memo, my comments are in []'s.s >' >-----Original Message-----  >From: Bill Gates ) >Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:22 PM e) >To: Microsoft and Subsidiaries: All FTE r  >Subject: Trustworthy computing  >iG >However, even more important than any of these new capabilities is thecC >fact that it is designed from the ground up to deliver TrustworthyvH >Computing. What I mean by this is that customers will always be able toG >rely on these systems to be available and to secure their information.iF >Trustworthy Computing is computing that is as available, reliable and6 >secure as electricity, water services and telephony.  >x# >[Sounds like a VMS cluster to me.]l >eE >Today, in the developed world, we do not worry about electricity and D >water services being available. With telephony, we rely both on itsA >availability and its security for conducting highly confidentiallE >business transactions without worrying that information about who we6G >call or what we say will be compromised. Computing falls well short of F >this, ranging from the individual user who isn't willing to add a newH >application because it might destabilize their system, to a corporationH >that moves slowly to embrace e-business because today's platforms don't >make the grade. . >tG >[What you mean Bill, is that _Microsoft_ computing falls well short ofs >this] i >i >Microsoft andI >the computer industry will only succeed in that world if CIOs, consumerswA >and everyone else sees that Microsoft has created a platform for  >Trustworthy Computing.  > E >[You arrogant person. So a platform is not trustworthy if it's not ar >Microsoft one ?]i >sF >Every week there are reports of newly discovered security problems inD >all kinds of software, from individual applications and services toF >Windows, Linux, Unix and other platforms. We have done a great job ofE >having teams work around the clock to deliver security fixes for anytH >problems that arise. Our responsiveness has been unmatched -- but as anE >industry leader we can and must do better. Our new design approachesaF >need to dramatically reduce the number of such issues that come up inD >the software that Microsoft, its partners and its customers create. >kI >[Yes, Bill, but what's the ratio of problems on your systems to problemsg >on other systems ?] >hB >No Trustworthy Computing platform exists today. It is only in theC >context of the basic redesign we have done around .NET that we canlG >achieve this. The key design decisions we made around .NET include the F >advances we need to deliver on this vision. Visual Studio .NET is theG >first multi-language tool that is optimized for the creation of securen* >code, so it is a key foundation element.  >hE >[This is the key paragraph that _really_ got me annoyed. TrustworthyeG >Computing platforms certainly do exist today. I also _really_ hate themE >way that he says that you need .NET to create a trustworthy system.]e >oF >[He then goes on to list what trustworthy systems should do. Read theG >article if you want the list, but it's generally everything that a VMSc. >system manager/developer is already used to.] >sI >Trustworthiness is a much broader concept than security, and winning ourrC >customers' trust involves more than just fixing bugs and achievingsG >"five-nines" availability. It's a fundamental challenge that spans theeH >entire computing ecosystem, from individual chips all the way to globalI >Internet services. It's about smart software, services and industry-wides >cooperation.  >e@ >[This annoys me as well. He seems to be saying that you need anH >infrastructure in place to handle trustworthy computing, which is true,G >but implies that it is something that Microsoft has to lead the way inuH >achieving. What precisely does he think that current Enterprise vendors >do ? ]  >oG >This priority touches on all the software work we do. By delivering ontI >Trustworthy Computing, customers will get dramatically more value out ofoH >our advances than they have in the past. The challenge here is one that( >Microsoft is uniquely suited to solve.  >r >Bill  >f0 >[Just what makes Microsoft "uniquely suited" ?] >  >Simon.p >u    F What a load of hooey.  Gates invents security, like Gore invented the  internet.  o  L I suspect MS is going to TM the "Trustworthy Computing" phrase, so they can J twist it to mean whatever they want.  Another marketing lesson, for those 8 interested in the finer points of weasel-word-smithin'.    ws   --     Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)p The Associated Press  @ ** When Windows is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb **   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:22:03 GMTeL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todayH8 Message-ID: <00A082EA.CBFDD688@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  w In article <01KD6RIISLRU8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:oG >> So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxestK >> forretail sale as "WindowsVMS"?It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws K >> in the existing Windows-family o/sMSLP $499, dealers may sell for less. S >nH >People seem to forget that Bill Gates made his fortune through LACK of J >quality.  Collections of patches are passed up as upgrades.  A friend of J >mine was thoroughly flabbergasted when he heard that patches (bug fixes) J >are available for free download for VMS.  What?!  They don't bundle them H >into a new release and force you to buy that or live with the problems?  N While I think nearly everything about Microsoft is evil, I must point out that9 they do in fact have patches available for free download.   L (They call them 'hotfixes.'  They also have big patch rollups called Service Paks.)    L The patch story is a very ugly one.  Here at SLAC the NT administrators wereL instructed, at one point, to get to a new version of IE by reinstalling the K OS, applying all Service Paks, reinstalling IE, and then installing one of lL the Service Paks over again.  I don't pretend to know why, although DLL Hell seems like a plausible excuse.   -- Alan     O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210eO ===============================================================================f   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 16:24:02 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)e= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todaye. Message-ID: <CuVLQOJnn91W@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  u In article <z2D18.81058$Sj1.31956321@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:S8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message# > news:3C46FA5C.5070104@mmaz.com...  > John Smith wrote:d > F > So why doesn't Bill buy OpenVMS and put it into shrink-wrapped boxesM > forretail sale as "WindowsVMS"?It'd be cheaper than fixing all the flaws inpF > the existing Windows-family o/sMSLP $499, dealers may sell for less. > M > We can all agree that Billy-Boy produces an inferior OS to VMS, but he does L > know marketing [BKM: Billy Knows Marketing :-) ] whereas Compaq seem to be > clueless about this. > F > Could you imagine the possibilities if MS applied their monopolisticH > strong-arm tactics to place VMS into the market and grow market share?	 > Humm...n > # > A frightening thought indeed! ;-}. >  >   N Unless the contract specified that billy could only sell the product and couldE make *absolutely no changes* to the code, the whole exercise would be E pointless.  After about three days, the pollution caused by microshit O "developers" would reduce the once powerful and stable vms code to the level of?J the rest of the billy software.  After all, NT started with a very vmslikeM kernel and look what happened to it.  All the layers of billyshit on *top* of1B the kernel made it useless.  Billy would do the same thing to vms.     -- lO ===============================================================================0M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxr: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== N Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:38:24 -0500h% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>s= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todaye, Message-ID: <3C476E7B.2F1F3154@videotron.ca>   Phillip Helbig wrote:lH > People seem to forget that Bill Gates made his fortune through LACK of= > quality.  Collections of patches are passed up as upgrades.   F Doesn't anyone find it odd that Microsoft hasn't declared a dividend ?L Microsoft acts as a non-profit organisation and one reason Wall Street likesK it is that MS uses Wall Street as a payroll service, paying a large part ofh, employee's salaries by issuing stop options.  N Remember when MS stock thumbled from the $120 down to $50 box last year ? BillH Gates made an announcement that its employees would be given extra stockN options, otherwise that drop in the stock would have resulted in a significant" reduction in employee's total pay.  H It is my opinion that MS ran on vapourware for very long, fueled by WallK Street Casino enthousiasm, but ever since Wall Street woke up from its .COMnL dream, Gates realised that his company was not sustainable in that structureJ in the new market reality. The gold rush is over. This is why we are seing9 prices go up on the products with new licensing schemes. -  N Gates realised that the Windows XP joke will cost MS a lot in credibility, andM this is why we saw that memo about "Trustworthy platform" making it look like@R MS is out to pionneer this concept and that nobody else in the world had this yet.  H If news reports of accounting irregularities come out, and if accountingG practices change to prevent companies from using Wall Street as payrolleG service to hide true costs of operation (stock options don't show up asAK operating costs for a company), then Microsoft would start losing money bigl0 time and wouldn't last long in its current size.      M I do not rule out Enron's fate for Microsoft. A rumour of insolvency can ruinsK a bank and cause all customers to pull their money out, causing the bank to) get belly up.  c    B > Thus, VMS doesn't fit into Bill's business model at all.  (Well,H > indirectly he relies on the VMS machines which run the production line > at the Intel fab.  :-)  )e  K The minute Microsoft realises that to survive, it must start supporting itshL products instead of relying on new PC sales, then it will seek products thatN cost less to support and that is where a product such as VMS fits the picture.> The costs of supporting Windows bugware would boggle the mind.  K The fact that Micorosft has been able to get away without really supportingtL its products is amazing. People have really be conditioned to be tolerant of= faults and spending hours/days trying to debig MS's products.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:07:26 -0500l% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t= Subject: Re: Bill Gates: No Trustworthy Platform exists todaye, Message-ID: <3C477547.F065ABD8@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:eN > Yeah, if they get NSK along with it, they'd pretty much have everything sewnK > up. I wouldn't be surprised if the *real* reason for the proposed HewletttH > PAQard merger is to yield a firm that's big enough to compete with IBM > several years down the road.    N Yes, that is the intent. The problem is that they think that they can overtakeK IBM by pushing "industry standard" (aka: wintel) solutions at all levels fo ' enterprise, instead of pushing NSK/VMS.-   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:32:59 -1000/ From: Jim Thomas <thomas@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>:G Subject: Re: Buffer Overflows - again Was: (Re: Congratulations for the82 Message-ID: <wwn0zcmwv8.fsf@atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu>  C >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Gunshannon <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> writes:7  5  Bill> In article <mddu1tl7vam.fsf@panix3.panix.com>,<7  Bill>  Rich Alderson <alderson+news@panix.com> writes:.  G     |> Besides, they were successful in another way: I first learned tosF     |> program on a 1401 with FORTRAN IV.  If not for that, I'd not beH     |> where I am today, and you'd not have the opportunity to read this     |> screed.  K  Bill> I never saw anything but Autocoder and machine language on the 1401.xJ  Bill> I worked with one at KAD in Germany back in 71-72.  I wouldn't haveA  Bill> thought the machine could even support a Fortran compiler.'  K Oh yes.  COBOL too :-)  And that was even slower than the IBM supplied IOCSt macros in Autocoder :-(m   Jimr   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:42:10 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>OE Subject: Re: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languages ' Message-ID: <3C479A78.309B1F44@fsi.net>t   Kelly Donahue wrote: > G > Does anyone know how to call a COBOL "Called Program" from a language A > other than COBOL?  We're running DEC COBOL V2.4 and OpenVMS 7.1   4 Rather depends on the syntax in the "other language"  0 BASIC:	CALL routine_name( param[, param[, ...]])C DECLARE-ing external routines can help the BASIC compiler check thec> number and datatype of the parameters for you at compile time.  2 DIBOL:	XCALL routine_name ( param[, param[, ...]])H (Actually, it's been many years since I saw DIBOL. Don't recall if XCALL uses parentheses or not.)   H To LINK the program, you can mention the associated object module in theA LINK command line, or include the module in an object library andAG reference that on the LINK command line. Shareable images ("libraries")e are useful, also.p  0 Other posters can address MACRO/32, C, C++, etc.  F I'm fairly sure that the common calling mechanisms are documented. I'm$ just not sure where (which book(s)).   -- a David J. Dachtera- dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/B   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 19:25:54 -0800% From: cask1@yahoo.com (Kelly Donahue)cA Subject: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languagesS= Message-ID: <f4f1188e.0201171925.5a065c60@posting.google.com>   E Does anyone know how to call a COBOL "Called Program" from a languagee? other than COBOL?  We're running DEC COBOL V2.4 and OpenVMS 7.1    Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:50:39 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>nE Subject: Re: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languagesm, Message-ID: <3C47C5BA.F50F538C@videotron.ca>  I > > Does anyone know how to call a COBOL "Called Program" from a languagehC > > other than COBOL?  We're running DEC COBOL V2.4 and OpenVMS 7.1o  D The calling standard is the same (beauty of VMS).  compile the cobolK subroutine to generate an .OBJ file and include that file when you link the 
 main program.e  M While the passing of arguments is standard, the VALUE of the arguments isn't.n  M COBOL uses fixed length strings for instance. So if the subroutine is to pass\J the address of a string array, when cobol subroutine does a MOVE to it, itK will move as many byte as the argument was defined to be and will not add aR null at the end for instance.l  L I believe that the cobol manual also defines how you must define the numericM fields to be compatible with other languages ( other languages do not support<L packed decimal usually) so you have to use COMP SYNC (if I remember well) ofM sufficient length to have the cobol routine assume that a longword integer isA at that memory location.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:00:57 +0000m1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net>M$ Subject: Change quorum disk question- Message-ID: <3C4773C9.E4851B5E@starpower.net>c  ; OK, I have my boot flags in order and both nodes (systems) t of my cluster boot.  :-)  D The system disk is the quorum disk, and I see now that I should have@ changed that before I added the second system.  How do I change A that now?  Can I copy the quorum.dat file to the new quorum disk,lA take one node down, edit modparms.dat and run autogen on the nodei: that's up, take it down and do the same on the other node?   Thanks Robert   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:04:40 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessr= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171104.22aa3a86@posting.google.com>   Q david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<a1seh1$t8g$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... j > In article <d7791aa1.0201120707.74c18acc@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:T > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<a1ndka$97a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...Z > >> In article <3C3F2BBC.75F08991@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: > >> >) > >> >I restate part of a previous post :uI > >> >VMS could still be saved, but it would take some group with $$$ ands > >> >vision and even someL > >> >acceptance from the VMS community that the OS needs to evolve and that9 > >> >might be more difficult than getting the investors.y > >> > > >> hK > >> VMS has always been evolving. In which particular areas do you want it ; > >> to evolve further and in which particular directions ?  > >> c > >> David Webbs > >> VMS and Unix team leader 	 > >> CCSSs > >> Middlesex Universityn > >> k > >> >Rick Nickles wrote:v > >> >> M > >> >> It really seems that the best thing for VMS is to spin it off as it'snL > >> >> own separate business (company).  That way there isn't the politicalN > >> >> agenda with Microsoft, and then they are free to market VMS like crazyN > >> >> and really build up a following as a single company.  Compaq stands toM > >> >> gain, The users stand to gain, Customers stand to gain.  The only onewL > >> >> that might lose is Microsoft, and it isn't like they'll be hurt that > >> >> bad anyway.f > >> >>   > >> >> What do you think folks? > > L > >evolving, but too slowly ... Palmer put it behind by not allowing any VMSH > >enhancements like say Apache ... he tried to force everyone to NT ...L > >I talk too many old vms support people still there from dec and they saidI > >practically anything that runs on unix can be ported easily to vms andtL > >had wanted to do many enhancements but Palmer wouldn't let them, and letsK > >face it, Compaq allowed some because NT Itanium flopped, but it is stillyN > >under retraints and advertisement is non existent ... and I seriously doubtL > >it will improve under the HP pc crowd who it sounds like will try to pushO > >vms users onto hp unix, but like Palmer, that will fail and they will either H > >have to support or sell vms, or lose the vms customer base to IBM ... > E > I would agree if you had said that evolving VMS to make porting of tI > Unix applications easier was not as fast as many would like eg DroppingsP > Posix support rather than going all out to improve it - though that policy has > now changed. aM > However the citing of Apache support as a major failing of Compaq/DEC seemscP > rather strange. Apache is public domain it would have been possible for othersM > to have ported it - However most people didn't consider the effort worth it P > since VMS has had it's own web servers which were arguably better than Apache.M > (eg The Decthreads OSU webserver is as it's name implies a thread based webdM > server - Apache still isn't ( Though the next main version of Apache shouldv > be)).dP > How many Unix companies actually port Apache themselves rather than leaving it > to enthusiasts ? > P > I see the porting of public domain Applications by VMS engineeering as a good P > thing. We can't expect them to port everything. We are grateful when they portJ > things which we cannot either because they are not in the Public domain K > eg earlier versions of Netscape or are too complicated for an individual i > programmer to deal with. >  >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University  D I agree Apache was a mistake ... should of went w/purveyor as it wasD written for VMS, not unix, and runs much better and doesn't have the/ conveluted "conf" structure that Apache has ...o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:19:43 -0500t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessa4 Message-ID: <1020117211926.371A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  , On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Terry C. Shannon wrote:   > 6 > "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message' > news:3C45D388.43BC4A71@pacbell.net...CG > > From what I've heard, Dave Cutler did not "write" VMS or NT. He wasoK > > involved in the early days with some of the VMS design and when he wento) > > to MS he was the project lead for NT.n > N > At DEC Cutler worked on VAXeln, then went on dabble in Mica, the VMS-like OSN > for the stillborn PRISM architecture. When PRISM was KO'd (in more ways thanL > one) in late March 1988, Cutler took the advice of Horatio Alger and "wentK > west, young man." Seems that the Mica code went west with him, as there'seK > more than a casual resemblence to the Mica code and the original NT code.x > ;-}a quoting nit...  C It was Horace Greeley, but according to the The People's Almanac #2eE (the only reference source I had lying around my office), he stole ith= from John Babson Lane Soule of the Terre Haute, Ind. Express. 8 By "west", Greeley was refering to western Pennsylvania.   --   John Santost Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:55:26 GMTA1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessl' Message-ID: <3C47817E.7CA7E643@fsi.net>r   Bob Ceculski wrote:n > S > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<a1seh1$t8g$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>... l > > In article <d7791aa1.0201120707.74c18acc@posting.google.com>, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:V > > >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote in message news:<a1ndka$97a$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>...\ > > >> In article <3C3F2BBC.75F08991@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <anonymous@pacbell.net> writes: > > >> >+ > > >> >I restate part of a previous post :eK > > >> >VMS could still be saved, but it would take some group with $$$ and= > > >> >vision and even someN > > >> >acceptance from the VMS community that the OS needs to evolve and that; > > >> >might be more difficult than getting the investors.w > > >> > > > >>M > > >> VMS has always been evolving. In which particular areas do you want it.= > > >> to evolve further and in which particular directions ?  > > >> > > >> David Webb  > > >> VMS and Unix team leaderT > > >> CCSSm > > >> Middlesex University4 > > >> > > >> >Rick Nickles wrote:i	 > > >> >> O > > >> >> It really seems that the best thing for VMS is to spin it off as it'srN > > >> >> own separate business (company).  That way there isn't the politicalP > > >> >> agenda with Microsoft, and then they are free to market VMS like crazyP > > >> >> and really build up a following as a single company.  Compaq stands toO > > >> >> gain, The users stand to gain, Customers stand to gain.  The only onetN > > >> >> that might lose is Microsoft, and it isn't like they'll be hurt that > > >> >> bad anyway.t	 > > >> >> " > > >> >> What do you think folks? > > >uN > > >evolving, but too slowly ... Palmer put it behind by not allowing any VMSJ > > >enhancements like say Apache ... he tried to force everyone to NT ...N > > >I talk too many old vms support people still there from dec and they saidK > > >practically anything that runs on unix can be ported easily to vms and N > > >had wanted to do many enhancements but Palmer wouldn't let them, and letsM > > >face it, Compaq allowed some because NT Itanium flopped, but it is stilloP > > >under retraints and advertisement is non existent ... and I seriously doubtN > > >it will improve under the HP pc crowd who it sounds like will try to pushQ > > >vms users onto hp unix, but like Palmer, that will fail and they will eithertJ > > >have to support or sell vms, or lose the vms customer base to IBM ... > >mF > > I would agree if you had said that evolving VMS to make porting ofK > > Unix applications easier was not as fast as many would like eg Dropping=R > > Posix support rather than going all out to improve it - though that policy has > > now changed.O > > However the citing of Apache support as a major failing of Compaq/DEC seems,R > > rather strange. Apache is public domain it would have been possible for othersO > > to have ported it - However most people didn't consider the effort worth itvR > > since VMS has had it's own web servers which were arguably better than Apache.O > > (eg The Decthreads OSU webserver is as it's name implies a thread based web O > > server - Apache still isn't ( Though the next main version of Apache shouldd	 > > be)).fR > > How many Unix companies actually port Apache themselves rather than leaving it > > to enthusiasts ? > >lQ > > I see the porting of public domain Applications by VMS engineeering as a good R > > thing. We can't expect them to port everything. We are grateful when they portK > > things which we cannot either because they are not in the Public domain,L > > eg earlier versions of Netscape or are too complicated for an individual > > programmer to deal with. > >i > >o > > David Webb > > VMS and Unix team leader > > CCSS > > Middlesex University > F > I agree Apache was a mistake ... should of went w/purveyor as it wasF > written for VMS, not unix, and runs much better and doesn't have the1 > conveluted "conf" structure that Apache has ...   C Unfortunately, a good chunk of the "industry" has "standardized" on-/ Apache on UN*X systems and not Purveyor on VMS.c   Whaddaya gonna do?   -- a David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:54:17 GMTs4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>+ Subject: Re: COMPAQ - Spin off VMS Businessl> Message-ID: <t7M18.81287$Sj1.32310292@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  - "John Santos" <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messagen. news:1020117211926.371A-100000@Ives.egh.com.... > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Terry C. Shannon wrote: >  > >t8 > > "Don Sykes" <anonymous@pacbell.net> wrote in message) > > news:3C45D388.43BC4A71@pacbell.net...sI > > > From what I've heard, Dave Cutler did not "write" VMS or NT. He wassH > > > involved in the early days with some of the VMS design and when he went+ > > > to MS he was the project lead for NT.t > >iD > > At DEC Cutler worked on VAXeln, then went on dabble in Mica, the VMS-like OSiK > > for the stillborn PRISM architecture. When PRISM was KO'd (in more wayse thanH > > one) in late March 1988, Cutler took the advice of Horatio Alger and "wentVE > > west, young man." Seems that the Mica code went west with him, asg there'snG > > more than a casual resemblence to the Mica code and the original NTp code.t > > ;-}d > quoting nit... >lE > It was Horace Greeley, but according to the The People's Almanac #2rG > (the only reference source I had lying around my office), he stole it ? > from John Babson Lane Soule of the Terre Haute, Ind. Express.@: > By "west", Greeley was refering to western Pennsylvania.  E You got me, John! I stand corrected as to the source of the purloinedy
 quotation.  K Western Pennsylvania? Isn't that where the Natural Guard is fixing to guardh some groundhog on February 2?u   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:35:21 -0800" From: VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)= Subject: Re: Compaq rebuts "Future of OpenVMS" Gartner report,= Message-ID: <d0a53e6e.0201171135.57062dfa@posting.google.com>a  c "Duane Sand" <Duane.Sand@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<6hs18.37455$Vq.343798@rwcrnsc53>...n9 > Five years ago, Intel planned that successors to Merced-; > would eventually displace most uses of x86 processors fors4 > home PCs and even laptops, after Moore's law fixed > some near-term issues.  ; It may take Moore's law another 5 years to fix Itanium. :-)i  C In any case, apparently Intel's plans have changed, and they aren'trD aiming Itanium at the desktop.  From COMPUTERWORLD magazine, JanuaryB 14, 2002 issue, in an interview with Intel VP and Chief TechnologyC Officer Pat Gelsinger entitled "Intel Puts Its Chips on The Table":p  < Gelsinger: "Our goal with the Itanium processor family is toE rearchitect the data center of the future.  Today, that's filled withs@ proprietary RISC-based machines, and our job is to move those to standard building blocks.1E COMPUTERWORLD: Will the IA-64 processor commoditize the 64-bit server'2 market as the Pentium has done in the IA-32 space?E Gelsinger: [With the IA-64], we're trying to deliver a building blockw for big-iron machines."I  : I find it ironic how Intel calls Alpha, SPARC, Power, etc.D "proprietary" while they call their brand-new IA-64 "standard".   AtF least until AMD makes a clone, IA-64 is proprietary.  (And I doubt AMD2 ever will.  No one cloned the iAPX432, after all.) ---02 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:24:59 GMTe+ From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@farmer.org>n: Subject: Re: Compaq Responds To Gartner Itanium Scepticism? Message-ID: <%HL18.57797$6L1.11772254@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>E   Alan,    Just to let everyone know...  L Regarding this particular document, it was made publicly available yesterdayF for customers through the Competitive Weekly list.  In that message itJ stated it was not confidential.  I don't know if it was distributed by anyH other means.  I posted it on OpenVMS.org as soon as I received it.  This$ specific document wasn't "leakware."   Kenl   --   Kenneth Farmer http://www.OpenVMS.org http://www.Tru64.org    2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:uija4ukuf6d5na96t09nhektusg3h4pdja@4ax.com...B > On 15 Jan 2002 16:28:34 GMT, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) > wrote: >m > >tG > >Compaq should post their rebuttal on the Wall Street Journal and CIOt > >Magazine. >dB > Exactly. Instead Compaq sets up witch hunts for Compaq employeesF > leaking internal information, which actually mentions VMS, to organs3 > such as The Inquirer and The Register. Strange...h >cF > Why oh why oh why should this document only see the light of day viaH > the Inquirer's "leakware" network. Can any Compaq employee tell me why2 > this document isn't on  www.openvms.compaq.com ? >u > -- > Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:09:01 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171109.7f034677@posting.google.com>   Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C4512FD.DB69B9FE@videotron.ca>...w > Rob Young wrote:M > > Compaq response:  We corrected the 400,000 to 411,000, and the $1 billionV9 > > estimated maintenance revenue stream to $2 billion.  e > . > Agree about the maintenance revenus stream.  > O > However in terms of number of VMS machines, whether 400,000 or 411,000 is nothN > what is important. What is important is the fact that Gartner mentioned thatJ > it suspects that a non trivial percentage of those numbers are no longer > active customers.  > P > Compaq did not provide any information on what exactly that 411,000 number wasO > derived.  Does that include former customers who still have licences to theire$ > names with such licences unused ?  > N > Does it include customers on self-maintenance ? It would be most interestingK > to get a number of customers and average number of machines per customer.MJ > Along with that, the number of customers who have maintenance contracts. >  > O > About the Gartner prediction that there is an 80 chance that the port to IA64-) > predicted for 2003/2004 won't succeed. 0 > L > While I have no doubts that VMS engineer will be able to recompile VMS forN > IA64, and that budgets to complete such a port are somewhat creedible unlessK > Carly makes some rash decisions, where Gartner may have a point is in they > schedule of such a delivery. > N > The remaining VMS customers may not be interested in VMS runnning on a smallM > Proliant with a Merced slow as molasses chip in it. Such a system is prettyl1 > certain to be available with VMS by 2003-/2004.o > M > What is not so certain is whether Intel will be able to deliver *ON-TIME* anK > chip that has respectable performance and the features necessary to build8) > Wildfire-style machines that customers.) > J > In that respect, perhaps Gartner has a point that there is a signifiacntP > chance that Compaq won't be able to deliver VMS on a respectable IA64 platformP > by the 2003-2004 time frame. (even though VMS will be running on whatever IA64 > is available at that time).i  D then we will stay on ev7 platform until itanic can outperform it ...@ why would anyone want to go to a slower hp unix (gag!) platform?E as long as ev7 stays ahead of itanium, you stay on Alpha VMS until it / passes ev7 performance!  Very simple, isn't it?    ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:15:47 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171115.7e5f2041@posting.google.com>>   simon_clubley@remove_me.altavista.co.uk-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) wrote in message news:<$aVSpXHOwL7i@eisner.encompasserve.org>...w > In article <bxA18.80928$Sj1.31860022@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:k > > < > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:apE9OMhPueEx@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > >> In article <3C463236.6D0D8354@fsi.net>, "David J. Dachtera"" >  <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> writes: > >> > Sue Skonetski wrote:  > >> >> [snip]L > >> >> People will read into things what ever they want to see.  People canJ > >> >> belive Gartner or the Inquirer or Compaq who do you think has more! > >> >> information on the topic?l > >> >N > >> > The main difference is that Gartner especially, but also Inquirer (to a> > >> > GREATLY lesser degree) are in the credibility business. > >> > > >>@ > >> My thoughts exactly.  And when Gartner pens things that areE > >> easily refuted by Compaq (with supporting evidence, i.e. numbersdG > >> and other related facts and/or idle speculation - believing activeyB > >> system count is 30-40% less than Compaq's offered 411K) their! > >> credibility takes a big hit.m > >> > > L > > What's equally interesting is that Gartner's VMS V7.2 OS writeup on CNETI > > (the one that drew ~350 responses, 98 percent of which were positive).O > > disappeared several weeks ago, perhaps concurrently with the release of thek3 > > draft version of the so-called "Research" Note.k > >  > E > 1) Is it normal for old articles to be pulled from CNET like that ?r > O > 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't understandv/ > what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?  >  > Simon.  C because they are in bed w/bill gates to try to force every one ontooH windoze or unix (gag!) ... they will, however, fail ... how is "freevms" going?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:18:24 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171118.127e9c88@posting.google.com>   z "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in message news:<%3B18.80951$Sj1.31882614@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>...4 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message' > news:3C46DB88.A8B1B95@videotron.ca...l > > Simon Clubley wrote:H > > > 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't
 >  understand 3 > > > what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?  > >SI > > When did Compaq respond in comparison with the date of publication of  > > Gartner's opinion ?  > M > If you read the full text you will note that Gartner published its Research  > Note on 20 December. >  > >rK > > It is *possible* that Compaq was asleep at the wheel and only responded  >  afterN > > the got a peek at the report, and now that it has been published, they are  > > trying to raise their voice. > M > If you read the full text of the report you will note that Compaq maintainsaJ > that The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the draft) > copy made available to them for review.: >  > >0M > > Another possibility is that Compaq (senior) wanted Gartner to publish badsG > > stuff about VMS to help the migration from VMS to NT over time, andn
 >  GartnerH > > listened to Compaq (senior) and discarded the stuff from Compaq (VMS
 > grunts). > > > I prefer the Space Alien and Black Helicopter theory myself. >  > >iG > > No matter what really happens, the fact that Gartner has a negativee
 >  opinion ofiL > > VMS is fully understandable when you consider the total lack of interest  > > Compaq corporate has in VMS. > I > What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on Gartner'shM > part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 in the CNET reporte > of a year ago.  H Terry, can't you and openvms mgt group and vms employees find someone toI buy vms and get it out of the hands of the windoze crowd so it can becomeh1 in the marketplace what it is, the number one os?w   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:09:29 GMTl4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!> Message-ID: <JjF18.81083$Sj1.32030202@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "Warren Spencer" <wspencer@ap.nospam.org> wrote in message1 news:9199843E9warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100... K > bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) wrote in <d7791aa1.0201150901.661eef67n > @posting.google.com>:  >pL > >This is on the enquirer ... how Gartner ignored what truthful assessmentsK > >Compaq had given them and made up lies about VMS ... after reading this,a5 > >Gartner Group has lost all credibility in my book!0 > >1* > >http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm > >b# > >Gartner Group = "bunch of liars"a >dG > More than the "who lied" question, I'm concerned about the managementI typesl; > will see the Gartner report, but not the Compaq rebuttal.l >eL > If CPQ does little/nothing to *broadcast* the rebuttal, then it could be a2 > tacit admission by CPQ that Gartner nailed it... >t  I It would seem that CPQ did do something to "broadcast" the rebuttal... itmB sure didn't take long for the rebuttal to show up on The Inquirer.  L That said, it would behoove CPQ to ensure that the aforementioned management# types are not gulled by codswallop.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:52:05 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!> Message-ID: <FXF18.81090$Sj1.32048601@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  5 "Bob Ceculski" <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message 7 news:d7791aa1.0201171118.127e9c88@posting.google.com...eA > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messagey: news:<%3B18.80951$Sj1.31882614@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>...6 > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message) > > news:3C46DB88.A8B1B95@videotron.ca...C > > > Simon Clubley wrote:J > > > > 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't > >  understand 5 > > > > what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?  > > >oK > > > When did Compaq respond in comparison with the date of publication ofl > > > Gartner's opinion ?e > > F > > If you read the full text you will note that Gartner published its Research > > Note on 20 December. > >  > > >cC > > > It is *possible* that Compaq was asleep at the wheel and onlyr	 respondedt
 > >  afterL > > > the got a peek at the report, and now that it has been published, they are " > > > trying to raise their voice. > >IE > > If you read the full text of the report you will note that Compaqt	 maintainssL > > that The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the draft+ > > copy made available to them for review.e > >t > > >iK > > > Another possibility is that Compaq (senior) wanted Gartner to publisht badeI > > > stuff about VMS to help the migration from VMS to NT over time, andf > >  GartnerJ > > > listened to Compaq (senior) and discarded the stuff from Compaq (VMS > > grunts). > >d@ > > I prefer the Space Alien and Black Helicopter theory myself. > >o > > > I > > > No matter what really happens, the fact that Gartner has a negatives > >  opinion of E > > > VMS is fully understandable when you consider the total lack ofi interest" > > > Compaq corporate has in VMS. > >vK > > What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on Gartner'siH > > part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 in the CNET report > > of a year ago. >wJ > Terry, can't you and openvms mgt group and vms employees find someone toK > buy vms and get it out of the hands of the windoze crowd so it can becomeo3 > in the marketplace what it is, the number one os?   K I sure as hell don't have the bucks to buy VMS (assuming it's for sale) andbL I doubt that the entire VMS workforce in Spit Brook could collectively raiseG the cash required to purchase a product that drives a (minimum) $2B perw! annum high-margin revenue stream.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:59:23 -0600o1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>eD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!8 Message-ID: <a27e0e$8t3$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  L At a Compaq IT Forum held in Chicago yesterday, we heard many times that H-PJ is well aware of the plans to port VMS to IPF and its a go.  NO changes inJ roadmaps, funding, etc.  Also heard of a money back guarantee.  Heard that from other IT vendors?  J That's what I heard from CPQ people.  That's what I'll believe until those" same CPQ people tell me different.  ! I wish others here would do same.r  B Believe what you will from the likes of Gartner.  I choose not to.  K I believe VMS will be successfully ported to IPF and when the time comes, I & will support moving in that direction.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:52:17 +01003B From: Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!7 Message-ID: <3C4755A1.225C@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>n   Terry C. Shannon wrote:n > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:apE9OMhPueEx@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >i? > > My thoughts exactly.  And when Gartner pens things that areeD > > easily refuted by Compaq (with supporting evidence, i.e. numbersF > > and other related facts and/or idle speculation - believing activeA > > system count is 30-40% less than Compaq's offered 411K) theirc  > > credibility takes a big hit. > >e > F > What's equally interesting is that Gartner's VMS V7.2 OS writeup on C > CNET (the one that drew ~350 responses, 98 percent of which were tE > positive) disappeared several weeks ago, perhaps concurrently with aD > the release of the draft version of the so-called "Research" Note.  8 It is still there when, you go to the general OS page : I http://techupdate.cnet.com/enterprise/techsearch/0-6133429-730-0-1-3.htmlo  " There is also a VMS 7.3 poll now :w http://techupdate.cnet.com/enterprise/0-6133429-720-7123320.html?tag=st.jp.6133429-722-7123320.more.6133429-720-7123320n  E (hope it works with this long URL, otherwise do a search for Openvms)n   -- a ME Posted by news://news.nb.nua   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 17:12:05 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)1D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!3 Message-ID: <A8MkBGRCx$u8@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  | In article <3C4755A1.225C@this.mailaddress.is.invalid>, Michiel Erens <I.dont.want.spam@this.mailaddress.is.invalid> writes:  $ > There is also a VMS 7.3 poll now :y > http://techupdate.cnet.com/enterprise/0-6133429-720-7123320.html?tag=st.jp.6133429-722-7123320.more.6133429-720-7123320e > G > (hope it works with this long URL, otherwise do a search for Openvms)o   It works for me.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:51:28 -0500a% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>aD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C47718A.E429AC0F@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:nK > It would seem that CPQ did do something to "broadcast" the rebuttal... it D > sure didn't take long for the rebuttal to show up on The Inquirer.  M The way I see it, their rebuttal was designed as a "protect your ass" device. J Compaq can claim to have done something to rebutt Gartner. But they didn'tM want it extremely public because they still need Gartner to extol the vertues N of Compaq's "true" bread and butter: the wintel business. (From Compaq's point of view, of course).  I The leak to the Inquirer was designed to quelch folks like me in a fairlyr small world (comp.os.vms).  J A REAL rebuttal would have been a full page add in the Wall Street JournalM with no mention of "Gartner" but with facts that would clearly contradict the)N Gartner opinions. That would not have been a direct attack, but those who have< read Gartner's report would have seen how wrong Gartner was.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:20:38 -0500e% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>8D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C47785F.DFB53E77@videotron.ca>   Dave Gudewicz wrote:L > That's what I heard from CPQ people.  That's what I'll believe until those$ > same CPQ people tell me different.  K Would you say the same if CPQ people had told you on June 1 that Compaq wasoL committed to Alpha, you went out and spent a few millions buying a big fancyJ Wildfire, sealing your commitment to Alpha for 10 years, and then a coupleK weeks later, before the box is even delivered, you are told that Compaq hass renegged on its commitment ?    G One example: the qubec government embarked in 2001 on a 5 year plan toLK replace its ibm mainframes with Alpha/Tru64 servers. How do you think thoseSH who made that decision look now that the products they have selected areA declared dead-ends, but the govt have already begun the project ?     J Sorry, but Compaq's words have very credibility at this point in time, notL only because of the alpha murder, but also because of the upcoming HP mergerH where HP will be making decisions, so what Compaq says now is worthless.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:54:16 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>eD Subject: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B9C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF -  C >> Would you say the same if CPQ people had told you on June 1 that.D Compaq was committed to Alpha, you went out and spent a few millionsD buying a big fancy Wildfire, sealing your commitment to Alpha for 10	 years,>>>$  G So, a cluster of new Alpha GS Series lasts them for 3-6 years (with the G odd cpu, memory upgrades and even additional GS Series Servers added to 0 the Tru64 cluster as required along the way).=20  H If they need more individual compute cycle servers after that, then theyF upgrade to much bigger EV7 servers running the latest version of Tru64? UNIX that is available at that time for another 3-5 years.  =20i  A After this, the expectation will be that, (assuming the merger is.F approved), more powerful servers will be available running the unified- UNIX from HP (best of Tru64 + best of HP-UX).s  D As long as all the applications are available and the transition andH downtime is minimized, performance is acceptable and the Oerations folksG issues are addressed, do you really think those that sit in board roomst1 really care what HW platform runs their business?    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Compaq Canada Corp.2 Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei@videotron.ca] Sent: January 17, 2002 8:21 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComyD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!     Dave Gudewicz wrote:F > That's what I heard from CPQ people.  That's what I'll believe until thosem$ > same CPQ people tell me different.  G Would you say the same if CPQ people had told you on June 1 that Compaqo wascF committed to Alpha, you went out and spent a few millions buying a big fancyeC Wildfire, sealing your commitment to Alpha for 10 years, and then ae coupleG weeks later, before the box is even delivered, you are told that Compaqi hasa renegged on its commitment ?    H One example: the qu=E9bec government embarked in 2001 on a 5 year plan = toE replace its ibm mainframes with Alpha/Tru64 servers. How do you think  those H who made that decision look now that the products they have selected areA declared dead-ends, but the govt have already begun the project ?     F Sorry, but Compaq's words have very credibility at this point in time, notaE only because of the alpha murder, but also because of the upcoming HP- mergerH where HP will be making decisions, so what Compaq says now is worthless.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 23:26:43 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>7D Subject: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1B9D@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Terry,  A >>> What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on"E Gartner's part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 inY the CNET report of a year ago.  D Thx for this updated pointer. For the benefit of others, here is theB updated url for the original Gartner review of OpenVMS V7.2-1 that appeared on Cnet awhile ago.  @ <http://techupdate.cnet.com/enterprise/0-6133429-723-1751615.htm9 l?tag=3Dst.jp.6133429-720-1751615.fr.6133429-723-1751615>    Beware long url - will wrap.  D Gartner Quote "Although these developments raised some eyebrows, theH general feeling is that these were wise moves for Compaq, a company thatG needs to focus and simplify on proven areas. Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS arey proven winners." end quote.>   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt Compaq Canada Corp.e Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660e Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----9 From: Terry C. Shannon [mailto:terryshannon@mediaone.net]f Sent: January 17, 2002 9:20 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!      2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:3C46DB88.A8B1B95@videotron.ca...a > Simon Clubley wrote:F > > 2) Why did Gartner ignore CPQ's response ? In other words, I don't
 understand1 > > what motivation Gartner did have to do this ?  > G > When did Compaq respond in comparison with the date of publication ofn > Gartner's opinion ?   B If you read the full text you will note that Gartner published its Research Note on 20 December.   > ? > It is *possible* that Compaq was asleep at the wheel and onlyd	 responded  after.H > the got a peek at the report, and now that it has been published, they are- > trying to raise their voice.  A If you read the full text of the report you will note that Compaq:	 maintainsoH that The OpenVMS Group spent considerable effort responding to the draft' copy made available to them for review.r   > G > Another possibility is that Compaq (senior) wanted Gartner to publishj bad8E > stuff about VMS to help the migration from VMS to NT over time, andr GartnersF > listened to Compaq (senior) and discarded the stuff from Compaq (VMS grunts).  < I prefer the Space Alien and Black Helicopter theory myself.   >uE > No matter what really happens, the fact that Gartner has a negative 
 opinion ofA > VMS is fully understandable when you consider the total lack of  interest > Compaq corporate has in VMS.  G What remains interesting is why the sudden change of heart on Gartner's0D part. They sure as heck wrote Nice Things about VMS V7.2 in the CNET report of a year ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:54:40 -0500p% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C47C6AB.9EE41B09@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:F > Gartner Quote "Although these developments raised some eyebrows, theJ > general feeling is that these were wise moves for Compaq, a company thatI > needs to focus and simplify on proven areas. Tru64 Unix and OpenVMS areT > proven winners." end quote.   K The problem is that Compaq has since changed its handling of VMS since thatsN report was published. The "renaissance" is gone, Alpha was killed, Tru64 is inJ a coma and Compaq is about to jump off a cliff hoping Carly will be strongN enough to catch it. (Meanwhile, Carly assasinated MPE and says she is ready to firther streamline products).a  L It is quite acceptable for Gartner or any other organisation to change their* opinion of VMS based on the recent events.  N Yes, Gartner has cried wolf over the impending death of VMS many times.  So itH must be taken with a grain of salt. However, this time, the cry has more7 credibility because of all the stuff that has happened.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:31:23 -0600-1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> 2 Subject: Re: Heads up: Compaq financial statements8 Message-ID: <a27cbt$8li$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  : Now they need a better PR department?  What next I wonder.  I I have a friend whom I haven't seen or heard from in many years, but I dosI remember one little saying that he used to spout when the occasion called.A for it.  This might just be one of those occasions, so here goes:i  : "Some people would bitch if you hung 'em with a new rope."  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C45A31B.ED79272C@videotron.ca...; > http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/011602/index.htmlt >nH > (Check out Capellas's picture  at bottom. Am I the only one who thinks that/ > they need a better PR departmnet at Compaq ?)o >eG > Financial statements will be webcast on both the microsoft junk mediaG player7 > and real player starting at 16:30 EST this wednesday.i   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:36:30 -0800" From: VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)4 Subject: HP explains the decision to axe the HP 3000= Message-ID: <d0a53e6e.0201171236.7657d4d9@posting.google.com>h  D In the latest issue of Interex's HP World magazine, Winston Prather,A the HP general manager for the HP e3000 business, explains why HPd. chose to kill the HP 3000 series and MPE.  SeeB http://www.interex.org/hpworldnews/hpw201/01plat.html for the full article.  E I found some portions very disturbing, because I see strong parallelsl with the VMS situation:D  > "As far back as 1992, HP customers have been choosing other HP platforms over the HP e3000."e  B There are now more Alpha systems sold with Tru64 than with OpenVMS? (although 5 and more years ago, the opposite was true).  And ofgD course, Compaq customers buy many more ProLiant systems than Alphas," if you're just looking at numbers.  @ "By the end of the 20th century, what had begun as a trickle hadC turned into a flood.  The family of HP e3000 customers had not onlyI# stopped growing, it was shrinking."n  E The VMS base was growing last year, but this year reports are that it C is shrinking again.  It's held fairly constant, despite predictionsl@ years ago that it would have fallen by half by now (or Gartner's) recent guess that it's fallen by 30-40%).e  A "I wanted HP to be able to continue to enhance and support the HP*D e3000.  But in order to do that, HP needed more revenue that we were$ getting from the HP e3000 business."  D There are about 400K VMS systems in the installed base vs. about 40KE for the HP 3000.  Will that make enough difference for VMS to surviven and thrive?a  B And I wonder, was it that the HP3000 was not profitable, or was it> just not returning enough extra dollars to shore up HP's otherC businesses (i.e. PCs)?  We were told VMS made $800M profit one year B recently, but that Alpha development, which cost between $150M and@ $300M, depending on whose numbers you use, was too expensive for Compaq to bear.e  A "The HP e3000 had ceased to be strategic -- not to HP, but to its  customers."e  @ Oh, great!  Blame the customers for the cancellation.  They just7 weren't loyal enough.  That's a good plan.  Good grief!s   Here's a key observation:   F "A number of people have asked me why we didn't do more to make the HPA e3000 more attractive to customers.  For example, as long as I'vesE worked in the HP e3000 business, customers have complained that there E are not enough applications for MPE/iX.  This has been the number one A reason that customers have cited for moving to HP-UX, Windows anddF Linux.  Why didn't HP do more to provide applications for the HP 3000?>  The fact is that MPE/iX applications come from a family of HPC partners.  As HP's customers moved toward lower-cost, higher-volumebB platforms, many of the developers in the ecosystem began following> them.  MPE had ceased to be strategic -- not to HP, but to its
 partners."  E So it's the partners' fault, too.  HP's not to blame because it's nott= a software company.  Nothing it could do could convince those0) partners.  Or was it that it did nothing?d  E VMS users often complain about the lack of applications for VMS (like F SAP, for example).  But then Compaq is not a software company, either. ---o2 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:10:59 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqIC Message-ID: <7lF18.329883$m05.26645250@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>b  = "Leonard Fehskens" <len.fehskens@compaq.com> wrote in messageo5 news:Xns919981B2381F5LenNewsgroupID@155.186.176.59...m/ > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> quoted CNN ini2 > news:87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com: > J > > "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andF > > data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit+ > > posted operating income of $56 million.a >>I > And Compaq Global Services posted income of $253 million on revenues ofs: > $2.032 billion.  Whose profits are carrying the company?  H Depends on how you categorize things.  For example, IIRC it was recentlyI stated that Tandem and Alpha systems accounted for 90% of Global Servicesg
 revenue...   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:18:14 +0100 (MET)d9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq ; Message-ID: <01KD6V31DGDY8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > Depends on how you categorize things.  For example, IIRC it was recentlyB > stated that Tandem and Alpha systems accounted for 90% of Global > Services revenue...   : Right---and that's how many % Tandem and how many % Alpha?  E Isaac Asimov's brother Stan was quoted as saying "the two of us have r. written on average about 250 books each".  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:33:54 +0100r1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>nK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqr5 Message-ID: <3C472722.45B4DFA2@swissonline.delete.ch>    Phillip Helbig wrote:h > L > > Depends on how you categorize things.  For example, IIRC it was recentlyD > > stated that Tandem and Alpha systems accounted for 90% of Global > > Services revenue...u > < > Right---and that's how many % Tandem and how many % Alpha? > F > Isaac Asimov's brother Stan was quoted as saying "the two of us have0 > written on average about 250 books each".  :-)    H I think Bill's point was that high-end platforms are underpinning Global. Services; GS would be very small without them.  E From the financial discussion document (and note the admissions about. high-end platforms) ...   F Compaq Global Services consists of four global business units: SystemsD Integration, Customer Support, Managed Services and Compaq FinancialF Services. Systems Integration offerings include end-to-end informationF systems consulting, technical and application design services, systemsE integration, internet and network architecture and project managementtG services. Customer Support offerings include business-critical services H and high-availability support services for multi-vendor/multi-technologyA hardware and software products. Customer Support also manages and B delivers warranty support to its customers through its own serviceG organization, as well as through full-service resellers and independentrE service companies. Managed Services offerings include outsourcing and @ resource management services, as well as business continuity and> recovery services. Compaq Financial Services offerings includeC customized enterprise financing solutions that encompass computers,lG networks and technology upgrades, as well as asset tracking, managementt and disposal services.  
 and later ...)  G Given current economic uncertainties, customers are focused on services G and solutions that reduce costs and increase productivity, resulting in-? growth in revenue from outsourcing and support services. Compaq0H Financial Services, with a quarterly revenue increase of 24 percent overG the prior year, continues to see positive growth in traditional leasingdH programs as well as new opportunities through Computing on Demand, whichC offers customers a broad range of on-demand solutions. Revenue fromfB Systems Integration was weaker in the quarter and full year due toB market softness in several regions, particularly in North America,G resulting in lower chargeability of delivery personnel. Overall, CompaqfH Global Services continues to benefit from a large geographically diverseG base, helping to counterbalance market disruptions in the U.S. Compaq's A strategy of offering bundled hardware and solutions through assetLE management, leasing and support services has led to steady sequential F growth in the number of units under contract for these services duringA the last three years. During 2001 Compaq's unit sales of hardwarerC declined due to the general economic weakness and technology market H contraction experienced by the industry as a whole. Should Compaq not beE successful in maintaining the number of hardware units under contractaF for services or should it not be able to grow its market share throughD other service offerings and penetration with new customers to offsetF declines in its contract base, then Compaq's asset management, leasing< and support services revenue could suffer in future periods.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:47:57 GMTo4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq,> Message-ID: <NTF18.81089$Sj1.32046413@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  4 "Ben Myers" <ben_myers@charter.net> wrote in message) news:3c4716e2.3527986@news.charter.net... L > Speaking as a one-time frequent author of pieces for PC Magazine, PC Week, PCJ > Tech Journal (going way back) and others, I can assure you that they are mostlyJ > unwilling to pay for the necessary talent to provide insightful writing.  L No disagreement there, Ben! Digital Review (a Ziff Davis publication) was anL exemplar of this truism. Many of my colleagues from said publication doubledG their salaries when they left D.R. to go onto bigger and better things.      > ThePF > web has had a major impact on ad revenues for the printed media, and
 Ziff-DavisI > is in deep financial doo-doo, so I doubt we'll ever again see accurate,sI > intelligent, and insightful writing in the trade rags ever again... Benc Myerst >   G It's a shame, because some of the trade rags (PC Week, PC Tech Journal, . Digital Review) were pretty good in their day.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:40:10 -0800$ From: peterl68@hotmail.com (Peter L)K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqo= Message-ID: <109b0779.0201171240.63e7864c@posting.google.com>   G The headline writer is often not the same as the writer of the article.e  e Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message news:<87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com>...lE > On the CNN Money site (formerly CNNFN) http://money.cnn.com appearsaD > the following headline "Signs of  Life for PCs". Clicking the linkF > leads to the report on Compaq's Q4 figures. Actually reading the CNNC > report makes it clear that PCs were dragging the company down butuG > whoever writes the headlines obviously hadn't read the article. AfterlE > all everyone knows Compaq is a PC company so if it produces figureslC > ahead of expectations then obviously PCs must be showing signs ofh> > life. Compaq fail to project their correct image yet again.  > H > I note also that the largest Q3-Q4 revenue increase came from productsE > which Compaq are killing: Tru64 on Alphaservers. Although, again, I @ > believe a huge US military sale accounts for the bulk of this.E > Assuming that the merger fails and Compaq still license HP-UX as istH > suggested who would you buy an IA64 based HP-UX system from: Compaq orA > HP if you were the US military? Answer quite possibly neither Io
 > suspect. > H > Here's a couple of quotes from the CNN report making it clear there isH > no "signs of life for PCs" yet that's what the blithering idiot at CNN! > who wrote the headline deduced.t > C > "Meanwhile, the company's PC business weighed on the bottom line, - > posting an operating loss for the quarter."h >  > andr > H > "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andD > data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit) > posted operating income of $56 million.h > F > The weak link in Compaq's business during the fourth quarter was itsD > PC business, which logged revenue of $3.8 billion and an operating > loss of $69 million. > G > Compaq has been struggling in the PC market amid dwindling demand andtE > increased pricing pressure. The company has taken a number of stepsdC > over the past year to improve profits there, including laying offsC > workers, outsourcing the production of its portable computers andC > working off inventories. > H > While the PC unit's losses have been narrowing, Compaq executives saidD > they still have a way to go and they do not expect it to return to4 > profitability until the second half of this year."   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:08:52 GMTM* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqaB Message-ID: <UXH18.543998$C8.38670221@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  F "Phillip Helbig" <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message5 news:01KD6V31DGDY8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com...nL > > Depends on how you categorize things.  For example, IIRC it was recentlyD > > stated that Tandem and Alpha systems accounted for 90% of Global > > Services revenue...  > < > Right---and that's how many % Tandem and how many % Alpha? > F > Isaac Asimov's brother Stan was quoted as saying "the two of us have0 > written on average about 250 books each".  :-)  L Didn't we also just hear that VMS services revenue ran a bit over $2 billionI annually?  That's a little more than 1/4 of total Global Services revenuet right there.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:24:20 -0500i- From: Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>bK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqt0 Message-ID: <3C475D24.F6BFE927@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: I > It's a shame, because some of the trade rags (PC Week, PC Tech Journal,e0 > Digital Review) were pretty good in their day.  N I dug this definition up from my very first web server directory tree, created+ in the early 90's on a VAXstation 4000/VLC:   N Intranet:  The portion of an Internet on the corporate side of a firewall. TheO term, "intranet", was first used in this way by the editors of Digital News anda% Review in their April 24, 1995 issue.-  C Did I get the name wrong, or was there also a DN&R as well as a DR?@    - JB.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:33:14 GMT!! From: "barone1" <barone1@cox.net>dK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqn6 Message-ID: <e3K18.2530$vT4.368474@news1.east.cox.net>  G "Compaq is a PC Company"   -   Compaq was a PC Company which decided tolL enter the enterprise arena by merging with Digital.  Compaq is now a companyL that offers it all, not just PC's. Worldwide Services and Consulting.  Don't% forget Tandem, also a Compaq company.s   Regardsn Petera    2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:87id4ugtc8n11a5holajjtenlbht2j0o90@4ax.com...E > On the CNN Money site (formerly CNNFN) http://money.cnn.com appearsoD > the following headline "Signs of  Life for PCs". Clicking the linkF > leads to the report on Compaq's Q4 figures. Actually reading the CNNC > report makes it clear that PCs were dragging the company down buthG > whoever writes the headlines obviously hadn't read the article. AftertE > all everyone knows Compaq is a PC company so if it produces figuresaC > ahead of expectations then obviously PCs must be showing signs of0= > life. Compaq fail to project their correct image yet again.t >mH > I note also that the largest Q3-Q4 revenue increase came from productsE > which Compaq are killing: Tru64 on Alphaservers. Although, again, Ia@ > believe a huge US military sale accounts for the bulk of this.E > Assuming that the merger fails and Compaq still license HP-UX as isaH > suggested who would you buy an IA64 based HP-UX system from: Compaq orA > HP if you were the US military? Answer quite possibly neither Ii
 > suspect. >wH > Here's a couple of quotes from the CNN report making it clear there isH > no "signs of life for PCs" yet that's what the blithering idiot at CNN! > who wrote the headline deduced.e >oC > "Meanwhile, the company's PC business weighed on the bottom line, - > posting an operating loss for the quarter."o >e > anda >aH > "In Compaq's enterprise computing segment - which includes servers andD > data-storage systems - revenue totaled $2.7 billion, and that unit) > posted operating income of $56 million.3 >0F > The weak link in Compaq's business during the fourth quarter was itsD > PC business, which logged revenue of $3.8 billion and an operating > loss of $69 million. >eG > Compaq has been struggling in the PC market amid dwindling demand andnE > increased pricing pressure. The company has taken a number of steps C > over the past year to improve profits there, including laying offhC > workers, outsourcing the production of its portable computers andy > working off inventories. >nH > While the PC unit's losses have been narrowing, Compaq executives saidD > they still have a way to go and they do not expect it to return to4 > profitability until the second half of this year." >e >S >a > -- > Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 17:24:18 -0800, From: David Masterson <dmaster@synopsys.com>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqa( Message-ID: <u4rlk30zh.fsf@synopsys.com>   >>>>> barone1  writes:  E > "Compaq is a PC Company" - Compaq was a PC Company which decided tohF > enter the enterprise arena by merging with Digital.  Compaq is now aC > company that offers it all, not just PC's. Worldwide Services ande: > Consulting.  Don't forget Tandem, also a Compaq company.  - The question is -- has Compaq forgotten them?    -- e: David Masterson                dmaster AT synopsys DOT com- Sr. R&D Engineer               Synopsys, Inc. , Software Engineering           Sunnyvale, CA   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:46:56 GMT.4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of CompaqP> Message-ID: <k8L18.81264$Sj1.32262492@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  9 "David Masterson" <dmaster@synopsys.com> wrote in messagee" news:u4rlk30zh.fsf@synopsys.com... > >>>>> barone1  writes: >pG > > "Compaq is a PC Company" - Compaq was a PC Company which decided touH > > enter the enterprise arena by merging with Digital.  Compaq is now aE > > company that offers it all, not just PC's. Worldwide Services and < > > Consulting.  Don't forget Tandem, also a Compaq company. >e/ > The question is -- has Compaq forgotten them?f >   K Perhaps I don't look at the Big Picture, but I think it would be kinda hard D to forget a profit of $74M on $301M in 4FQ NonStop Division revenue.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 19:16:43 -0800, From: David Masterson <dmaster@synopsys.com>K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqc( Message-ID: <uzo3c1h7o.fsf@synopsys.com>   >>>>> Terry C Shannon writes:o  ; > "David Masterson" <dmaster@synopsys.com> wrote in messagep$ > news:u4rlk30zh.fsf@synopsys.com...   >> >>>>> barone1  writes:v  E >> > "Compaq is a PC Company" - Compaq was a PC Company which decidednF >> > to enter the enterprise arena by merging with Digital.  Compaq is? >> > now a company that offers it all, not just PC's. Worldwide,A >> > Services and Consulting.  Don't forget Tandem, also a Compaqt
 >> > company.o  0 >> The question is -- has Compaq forgotten them?  B > Perhaps I don't look at the Big Picture, but I think it would be? > kinda hard to forget a profit of $74M on $301M in 4FQ NonStops > Division revenue.e  F Then, has Compaq been growing the Tandem portion of the business since> the PC market is in dull drums?  And, from the looking-forwardB statements, does it plan to grow them significantly in the future.  F In a company as large as Compaq, a division could be doing really wellF and, yet, have been forgotten in the overall company's Big Picture for the future.m   -- >: David Masterson                dmaster AT synopsys DOT com- Sr. R&D Engineer               Synopsys, Inc.t, Software Engineering           Sunnyvale, CA   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 03:31:02 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqn8 Message-ID: <00A08315.F64161E1@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  ` In article <3C475D24.F6BFE927@ost.cdrh.fda.gov>, Jonathan Boswell <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> writes: >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:J >> It's a shame, because some of the trade rags (PC Week, PC Tech Journal,1 >> Digital Review) were pretty good in their day.- >-O >I dug this definition up from my very first web server directory tree, createdi, >in the early 90's on a VAXstation 4000/VLC: >uO >Intranet:  The portion of an Internet on the corporate side of a firewall. ThegP >term, "intranet", was first used in this way by the editors of Digital News and& >Review in their April 24, 1995 issue. >eD >Did I get the name wrong, or was there also a DN&R as well as a DR? >l  I Digital Review merged with Digital News, and produced DN&R.   (That's not 6 just the obvious conclusion; I remember it happening.)   -- Alanw  O ===============================================================================-0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056lM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-02105O ===============================================================================y   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 04:08:15 GMT ' From: ben_myers@charter.net (Ben Myers)%K Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaqd0 Message-ID: <3c479f93.38526827@news.charter.net>  8 Unless Arthur Andersen audited the books!  ... Ben Myers  P On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:46:56 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >e: >"David Masterson" <dmaster@synopsys.com> wrote in message# >news:u4rlk30zh.fsf@synopsys.com...s >> >>>>> barone1  writes:a >>H >> > "Compaq is a PC Company" - Compaq was a PC Company which decided toI >> > enter the enterprise arena by merging with Digital.  Compaq is now agF >> > company that offers it all, not just PC's. Worldwide Services and= >> > Consulting.  Don't forget Tandem, also a Compaq company.  >>0 >> The question is -- has Compaq forgotten them? >> >eL >Perhaps I don't look at the Big Picture, but I think it would be kinda hardE >to forget a profit of $74M on $301M in 4FQ NonStop Division revenue.u >r >e  	 Ben Myersl Spirit of Performance, Inc.a 73 Westcott Road Harvard, MA 01451r tel: 978-456-3889e eFax: 810-963-0412 a  PayPal, MC, VISA, AMEX accepted.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:49:18 GMTr3 From: sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com (Bradford J. Hamilton)e Subject: microshaft lookoutn/ Message-ID: <iiK18.36$M3.160@news-srv1.fmr.com>b  M Wouldn't it be better to chop up microshaft lookout into 80-character chunks?c   :-)u  z In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E126@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes: <snip> >Yep. :) >i >So... slightly off-topic, has anyone got some idea how to make microshaft lookout chop my lines up into 80-character chunks?  These mile-long lines are even annoying me. >l	 >Regards,r >h >Chris > " >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, ILv >s >/usr/bin/perl -e 'v@ >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' >    Bradford J. Hamilton  bradhamilton@mediaone.net	(home) sy18889@rabbit.fmr.com		(work)  ; "All opinions that I express are my own, not my employer's"o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:03:25 -0800u2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com> Subject: OT:  Buffer Overflows1 Message-ID: <a27vmq$21$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>n  9 It seems that so many OS security holes and other seriouso7 problems reported in the news meadia, both industry andr: popular, occur through Buffer Overlow errors.  I know that4 VMS is much better engineered than most OS', but has: anyone heard of any serious problems with Buffer Overflows0 in the VMS kernel or important Layered Products?  7 Frankly I laughed out lound when I heard a quote from a ; VP of Microsoft saying something to the effect that "Buffer : Overflows are a fact of life in software and can't be 100%6 eliminated".  While it's true that nothing can be 100%7 eliminated, it sounding like he was just making excusesa9 for poorly engineered software, and defending "shoot froma6 the hip" software development.  (I live in Seattle and; know that Microsoft's programmers frequently haven't workedi; in an environment where quality control is important.  They 7 also hired two programmers from my staff that were, howd8 show I say without causing any potential legal problems, less than top drawer.)  7 As a old programmer, I know the only time I experiencedR< a Buffer Overflow was when I didn't pass the right arguments= or use the right passing mechanism to an external subroutine..8 And then it only happened to me a couple of times, never8 once since I decided to allow the compiler to flag these6 kinds of errors.  Do other people have Buffer Overflow problems in their VMS programs?o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:23:50 GMTl2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>4 Subject: Re: Patching or upgrading Hobbyist OpenVMS?= Message-ID: <GOK18.451$h31.86046@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com>s  , David L. Cathey <davidc@montagar.com> wrote:Q >> Is there any process to suggest/poll for whcih products Hobbyist would like to O >> see ? (for instance, I wouldn't mind seing the real All-in-1 (office server)  >> in there. >>  M >> (By the way, the  layered product licenses include a bunch of licences fornM >> "all-in-1" but none for the real one, they deal with the retired "all-in-1t >> mail" stuff.s  G > 	Please remember that the CD is very space restricted.  Of course I'dpH > love to put everyones favorite products on the CD, but that's just not  F In this case this is more of a request for an additional product to beM supported by the Hobbyist program, rather than for it to be added to the CD. 9L In other words some of us would like Hobbyist License PAKs for All-in-1 (not the All-in-1 Mail stuff).    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:38:11 -0500n+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>e Subject: RE: Pro merger T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1BA1@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John, Alan -  G The rules are that we compete very aggressively with HP until such timeNG as the merger is complete and that is what is happening. Both sides are 4 continuing to fight each other at every opportunity.  H As far as the document from HP goes, imho, and pure guesswork, but HP-UXH does not compete much in the Tandem space, so they likely felt it was ok/ to say something on that space in the document.r  F HP-UX and VMS do currently compete in a few area's, so HP is not goingB to take any edges from their Sales force - If I were them, I would likely do the same thing.    Regardsv  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Compaq Canada Corp.. Professional Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----8 From: John McLean [mailto:mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch] Sent: January 17, 2002 12:21 PMp To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Pro mergerp         Alan Greig wrote:s >=203 > On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:06:04 -0500, "Main, Kerry"n  > <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: >=20F > >What happens if before the merger is complete, HP says VMS is great and C > >one of the best OS's around .. what does that do to HP's current = > >business when the HP Sales force is currently actively ands aggressivelyB > >competing against Compaq and VMS / Tru64 / NT /NSK? Similarily, Compaq< > >Sales could potentially use that quote against current HP opportunities. >=20F > Kerry a dinosaur killing sized hole is blown in this argument by theE > fact that HP *have* said that NSK is great in their document on why A > the merger is such a good idea. VMS gets no mention at all. The G > document goes on to say that HP will eliminate the multiple operatingsA > systems inherited from Compaq. Only NSK is singled out as safe.o >=20H > >Obviously there are business and loads of legal issues about what oneE > >company can (or will) say against or for the other company when inu the  > >middle of a merger.  F Kerry I take your point but I also agree with Alan.  Carly saying that= VMS does have a (positive) place in their plans would be very-E comforting.  She doesn't have to heap praise on it; she just needs toeH give VMS customers and users some re-assurance that there is a place for it.      John McLeang   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:33:25 -0700 (MST)<" From: John Nebel <nebel@csdco.com>! Subject: Purge of Compaq's board?8G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0201171321350.16788-100000@athena.csdco.com>h  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/17010218.htm   = Three other Capellans are missing ar missing besides Ken Lay?l  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:12:17 +0100h2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofo; Message-ID: <3c4705f1.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   ) Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:n7 > martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote...rB > > Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= (arne.vajhoej@gtech.com) wrote: > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:0I > > > > Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, including:L > > > > transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This meansH > > > > that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,J > > > > either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyL > > > > other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha > > > > system!e > >  ...K > > > PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multiplen> > > >     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's. > > I > > And the "automatic, transparent, fail-over to any other system in theNG > > cluster" is a feature of TCPware which I have successfully employedo > > on a cluster running CSWS. >lK > unfortunately, CSWS cannot run on both Alpha & Vax in a mixed cluster ...0 > only tcpware/purveyor can ...   K Unfortunately, Purveyor can only cope with EXEs and COMs. No Perl, no Java.a  D If I really wanted to run a webserver on a VAX in a mixed cluster, IG could as well failover to OSU/VAX from my CSWS - it's a TCPware featuret that works with any webserver.   cu,n   Martin --  G                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerr4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:51:14 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofe= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171351.6b7178b2@posting.google.com>o  u martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote in message news:<3c4705f1.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...a+ > Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:s9 > > martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) wrote...aD > > > Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= (arne.vajhoej@gtech.com) wrote: > > > > Bob Ceculski wrote:aK > > > > > Purveyor provides sophisticated support for clustering, includingeN > > > > > transparent operation on a mixed-architecture VMScluster. This meansJ > > > > > that you can have your primary Web server on one cluster system,L > > > > > either VAX or Alpha, with automatic, transparent, fail-over to anyN > > > > > other system in the cluster, which can also be either a VAX or Alpha > > > > > system!  >  ...M > > > > PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multipleC@ > > > >     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's. > > > K > > > And the "automatic, transparent, fail-over to any other system in the I > > > cluster" is a feature of TCPware which I have successfully employedn  > > > on a cluster running CSWS. > > M > > unfortunately, CSWS cannot run on both Alpha & Vax in a mixed cluster ...r! > > only tcpware/purveyor can ...r > M > Unfortunately, Purveyor can only cope with EXEs and COMs. No Perl, no Java.n > F > If I really wanted to run a webserver on a VAX in a mixed cluster, II > could as well failover to OSU/VAX from my CSWS - it's a TCPware feature   > that works with any webserver. >  > cu,t
 >   Martin  D wrong again!  We compile and run java scripts embedded in dcl coms &C called from dcl coms using purveyor and also call perl scripts fromr dcl ... we also,B use the vms java virtual machine ... and we also had a perl scriptC that ran that I converted when we brought our site in house ... dcl  andi? dibol scripts are superior to perl anyday on vms ... and we arei	 currentlyaD working w/synergy for a solution which will allow us to run xml thruF dibol and purveyor!  With mapping features and dll's that can interact from c w/dibolA external subroutines, nothing is impossible!  Purveyor parses thet? symbols/logicals in dcl and then from there you can do and callf anything youE want, no limits!  And its easy to pass logicals! What are you talkinge about!   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:47:42 -0800$ From: svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth). Subject: Questions about VIOC on VMS 7.3 Alpha= Message-ID: <5a85bce2.0201171247.7ebab834@posting.google.com>    Hi:l  C I've got an ES40 run VMS 7.3 with a pretty decent amount of RAM (24- GB) and I'mo; tinkering with trying to see how large I can make the VIOC.r  E I set VCC_MAXSIZE to 1GB in modparams.dat, ran AUTOGEN and rebooted. t? That works fine.  Then when I jacked VCC_MAXSIZE up to 2GB, ran-E autogen and rebooted, I got this message on the console at boot time:o  5 "Insufficient system page table space for VIOC cache"d  B When VMS finishes the startup routine, VCC_MAXSIZE is set to 0 and there is no VIOC.@  
 Sooooo....  A 1) What is the maximum size for the VIOC under OpenVMS Alpha 7.3?g  E 2) What params do I need to tweak in order to increase my system page ? table space in order to allow a 2GB VIOC? Autogen isn't settingt something right....e   Thanks,a   -Scott Vieth   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:07:40 GMT.2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)2 Subject: Re: Questions about VIOC on VMS 7.3 Alpha1 Message-ID: <MrL18.171$PZ4.1609@news.cpqcorp.net>   H   I will assume that you have switched from XFC over to VIOC pending theF   availability of the XFC V2.0 (or later) ECO kit -- this updated XFC F   code is presently under test.  If you have not switched from XFC to H   VIOC on V7.3, please set the VCC_FLAGS value to 1, and reboot.  (This J   applies regardless of any installation of the XFC V1.0 ECO kit on V7.3.)  d In article <5a85bce2.0201171247.7ebab834@posting.google.com>, svieth@wi.rr.com (Scott Vieth) writes:  .   How to best size the I/O cache on OpenVMS?    3     Simple: repeated runs of AUTOGEN with FEEDBACK.p    D :I've got an ES40 run VMS 7.3 with a pretty decent amount of RAM (24H :GB) and I'm tinkering with trying to see how large I can make the VIOC.  H   There used to be a bug around that permitted you to set the VIOC size G   larger than its architectural maximum -- and AUTOGEN did not account oG   entirely correctly for the size of VIOC -- if you cranked the system oD   parameter knobs sufficiently incorrectly, you could see some, um, =   interesting effects.  (I think this one got fixed in V7.1.)a  A   The theoretical limit for VIOC is 2GB, and you won't get there.A     XFC can be rather larger.t    F :I set VCC_MAXSIZE to 1GB in modparams.dat, ran AUTOGEN and rebooted. @ :That works fine.  Then when I jacked VCC_MAXSIZE up to 2GB, ranF :autogen and rebooted, I got this message on the console at boot time: :u6 :"Insufficient system page table space for VIOC cache" :yC :When VMS finishes the startup routine, VCC_MAXSIZE is set to 0 anda :there is no VIOC. ..  B :1) What is the maximum size for the VIOC under OpenVMS Alpha 7.3?    I   The VIOC maximum hasn't changed; the VIOC cache has to be stuffed into AD   thirty-two bit system space -- with everything else already there.    F :2) What params do I need to tweak in order to increase my system page@ :table space in order to allow a 2GB VIOC? Autogen isn't setting :something right....  I   The maximum VIOC cache size is controlled by the VCC_MAXSIZE parameter, G   and this depends on the tract of page table entries (PTEs) available,tH   and specifically System Page Table Entries (SPTEs).  The PTEs for the H   cache are based on the VCC_PTES setting (a special parameter) and the I   available room in system space.  In practice, the VCC_PTES setting can  J   be thought of as an analog to NPAGEVIR -- like NPAGEVIR limits the size 8   of NPAGEDYN, VCC_PTES is the cache size maximum limit.  F   VCC_PTES is loaded into SGN$GL_CACHEPTES, and sets the limit on the    peak cache size.  C   SGN$GL_CACHEPTES is used to determine the maximum number of SPTEstC   that are available to map the I/O cache, and the value is limited=F   (like everything else on VAX, and in thirty-two-bit system space on C   Alpha) by the total size of system space (and more specifically, II   everything that get stuffed into system space).  This SGN$GL_CACHEPTES  I   value is then used to derive the value of CACHE$GL_PTES, and the value =?   in CACHE$GL_PTES is well below the value of SGN$GL_CACHEPTES.=  H   Note: Much has been moved out of S0 and S1 (system space), starting inC   OpenVMS Alpha V7.0.  XFC uses sixty-four-bit space, for instance.i  C   Each block of 128 SPTEs requires a (VAX, 512-byte) page (an Alpha3   pagelet) of memory.h  E   There are other limits on the maximum possible VIOC cache size, not E   the least of which is all of the other stuff in system space -- theaF   size of which limits the available page table space for mapping and G   the available room for cache -- the size of non-paged pool, the free sJ   list, system code, system data, and the memory required for the maximum L   working set available for one process, and the maximum cache size setting.K   And a few other minor items that can require system space memory storage.>G   In other words, the maximum permissible value of VCC_SPTES can never q   allocated.  G   The value acquired from the VCC_PTEs parameter is adjusted (downward)eH   based on the available SPTEs, so any value that is equal to or larger H   than the required number of PTEs for support of the system VIOC cache F   will provide the required results.  (This is the reason why there isE   normally no need to tweak the VCC_PTES parameter from its default, -<   and why the parameter is listed as a "special" parameter.)  I   If insufficient room is available for the cache, CACHE$GL_PTES will be nH   zeroed.  If there is room for caching, it will be enabled.  (The code G   involved will try to create enough SPTEs to map all of system space, aH   using what it can get above the non-cache requirements as room to map 3   any potential increase in the size of the cache.)     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 18:28:56 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: Queue problems = Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0201171828.72561410@posting.google.com>   z pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders) wrote in message news:<bc0e3bd8.0201171008.16354721@posting.google.com>... > hi,cE >   I have recently changed the name of my microvax 3100 vax node andn4 > everything is fine except for the sys$batch queue.F >   When I do a show queue it displays the queue as running on the old > node name.% >   I have tried to run the command : C >   init /queue /on=<new_node_name> but when I enter the queue_nameaA > sys$batch it replies with inconsistent queue name. The queue is F > auto-started so is not defined in systartup_v5.com. Does anyone knowG > which file holds the auto-queued queue or how I change the node name.B > I am using vms vax 5.5-2 > ta > pato  = First, run SHOW QUEUE/FULL/SUM SYS$BATCH and save the output.i  A Then, and this is not tested, but I think it should work for you:e   $ STOP/QUEUE/RESET SYS$BATCH $ DELETE/QUEUE SYS$BATCH. $ INIT/QUEUE/BATCH SYS$BATCH /ON=new-node-name /optionally-other-qualifiers  F If you want jobs to run "in the background", add /BASE_PRIORITY=3. UseF the saved output from the beginning and specify the same qualifiers in the INIT statement above.s  D Add the third line (INIT statement) to SYS$MANAGER:SYSTARTUP_V5.COM!F (And delete or comment out the old INIT statement therein, if there is one.)   @ I don't believe that you can change the /ON node name, hence the> delete and create above. Also check out the SET QUEUE command.   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane afeldman;gfigroup.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:15:54 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)-% Subject: Re: raid vs volume shadowingr7 Message-ID: <9199AA4E0warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>y  I sendspamhere@127.0.0.1 (Nic Clews) wrote in <3C46F423.21E13C6@127.0.0.1>:    >Warren Spencer wrote: >> 6> >> >What are your experiences of RAID versus Volume Shadowing?8 >> >e.g. speed, reliability, cost, administration, setup >> i< >> Where the application demands it, I like to use both in aF >> complementary fashion.  Set up a pair of RAID-5 arrays in differentB >> rooms, then use volume shadowing between the hosts that own theH >> arrays.  In this configuration, you can lose a room or host or array,H >> and still be protected against a single-disk failure on the survivingA >> array while you're trying to get the failed component back up.a >iG >What are your experiences of performance in this situation? (We have af >few in this config too) >p$ >What size cache on each controller? >rF >From MONITOR FCP what are the ratios of DISK READ RATE and DISK WRITE >RATE ?l >iC >Our systems are predominantly READ so we've not seen issues, but I G >*guess* that if the situation was reversed, system throughput could be:9 >affected [but in the name of data and service security].  >j  K Sorry but I don't have any quantitative data on performance.  I can say it eI was "acceptable".  But as you point out, this configuration was selected  K based on availability, not performance.  The application running on it was tG an Oracle 7 database with custom C/SQL code, doing large bursty writes  7 about every 10 minutes - not a heavy load in most eyes.,  G I don't recall the exact controller model number, but it was a KZ??? 3-p- channel raid controller (16 or 32 MB cache?).t   ws   -- s   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)e The Associated Press  @ ** When Windows is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb **   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:10:10 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>Y Subject: Rise and Fall of the Magaloids (was Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financO> Message-ID: <CJJ18.81234$Sj1.32201205@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  : "Jonathan Boswell" <jsb@ost.cdrh.fda.gov> wrote in message* news:3C475D24.F6BFE927@ost.cdrh.fda.gov... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:0K > > It's a shame, because some of the trade rags (PC Week, PC Tech Journal,c2 > > Digital Review) were pretty good in their day. >iH > I dug this definition up from my very first web server directory tree, created - > in the early 90's on a VAXstation 4000/VLC:H >aL > Intranet:  The portion of an Internet on the corporate side of a firewall. The H > term, "intranet", was first used in this way by the editors of Digital News and' > Review in their April 24, 1995 issue.0 > E > Did I get the name wrong, or was there also a DN&R as well as a DR?  >t  K All those and more! In fact, a veritable panoply of DECpress existed at onei time or another...  J In the beginning, back in the dark old days of the late 70s there was RSTSJ Professional, which in 1981 begat DEC Professional and then itself morphedK into VAX Professional in 1982. Personal and Professional came and went fromlK one end of the Rainbow to the other in 83-84. That was in Spring House, PA. G Charlie Matco made his debut under the Terry Shannon pseudonym in early K 1983, in 1984 Matco relocated from Roswell, NM, where he was dwelling amongaJ the Space Aliens, to Spring House, PA. Spring House is close to Ambler and! Fort Washington, if anyone cares.V  I While Matco was making his First of Many Pilgrimages, Hardcopy erupted on K the Left Coast. And in Taxachusetts, Digital Review: The Magazine was born.3K The first sighting of a Charles Matco article in Digital Review was OctoberqL 1985. Terry Shannon hisself arrived in Beantown the same month. Coincidence? You decide.p  F In 1986, Digital Review: The Magazine morphed into Digital Review: theG Weekly Magaloid. This was widely regarded as a pre-emptive move by Ziff-J Davis against rival IDG, who was spinning up Digital News, a twice-monthly newspaper/magazine or Magaloid.:  I In early 1988, the Real Charlie Matco left the Digital Review building. A7 faux Matco lived on.  E Sometime thereafter, as cracks appeared in the vaunted Digital armor,eG Digital Review and Digital News were acquired by Cahners Publishing andvK merged into Digital News and Review. This would have been 1992 or 1993. TheeI real Matco returned to the pages of DN&R for a brief spell, writing underr5 his own named as well as his Terry Shannon pseudonym.   H Hardcopy went teats-up. So did the little-known "Computers r Digital," a# magazine published in Red Bank, NJ.i  H The original owners of DEC Professional and VAX Professional already hadG bailed out and made a pretty penny selling off their literary assets to I Cardinal Business Media, who struggled on for a few years before folding.   L Digital News and Review folded in the mid-90s and was partially reincarnatedL as BackOffice Magazine. The reincarnation did not last for long, perhaps due6 in no small part to a ghastly Philadelphia Experiment.  L The foreign DEC trade press, which included ON$DEC, DEC Computing, DEC User,' and several others, also came and went.p  I So the last Dog barking is SKC, which is now in its ninth year. If memory K serves me correctly (and we sure as hell didn't have ECC back in them days) B this will be my twentieth year covering DECpaq in the pages of one publication or another.   J I hope SKC continues on, perhaps under yet another new name (SKC being theI third instantiation of the Newsletter That Takes No Prisoners) because at 7 age 50 I am getting too old to get a Real Job anyplace.|   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 15:24:26 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-. Subject: Re: Strange erroir message on VMS box3 Message-ID: <EJjgLoVCfwWR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ~ In article <3C46D617.8080804@softwarefutures.com>, Jeff Tichafambanai Munyaradzi <Jeffrey.Mutonho@softwarefutures.com> writes:J > Has any of you ever received this error when running an application, or # > know the reason why this happens?  > 8 > %SYSTEM-F-OPCDEC, opcode reserved to Digital fault at " > PC=0000000000000004, PS=0000001B >  > Jeff >   .    Yes.  It means you have a bug in your code.  ,    Most likely you are corrupting the stack.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 05:55:50 GMT * From: genew@mail.ocis.net (Gene Wirchenko)Y Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Sv: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The dt* Message-ID: <3c47b82f.98580@news.ocis.net>  ) seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) wrote:    [snip]  E >>Experts can learn any number of obscure combinations they like, as  E >>appropriate to their level or expertise.  Surely 2 or 3 -- or even r6 >>combinations of them -- is not enough for an expert?  E      Two works fine for me.  I could handle three if the third buttoncF wasn't used much (like a wheel).  I'd probably want it to doubleclick.  L >It seems to be - past that, I am starting to lose track of which buttons do >what.  2      Peter, you're not a touch-mouser?  Bad kitty!  
 Sincerely,   Gene Wirchenko  ' Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:       I have preferences.      You have biases.       He/She has prejudices.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:05:46 GMTI4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk questionr= Message-ID: <K0H18.8277$gf1.47053@news-server.bigpond.net.au>n  G Any error will result in the 2nd word of the IOSB being set to the UNIXnH errno value.  From errno.h, 32 = EPIPE, Broken Pipe.  (See sec 5.4.2 I/O) Status Block, in the programmer's guide).   L > Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last > byte has been read ?  I SS$_NORMAL means you have successfully read a buffer.  Your client-serveruL protocol will need to determine if it is the "last byte".  You would need to6 define what the "last byte" means to your application.  H Unless the server exits abnormally it will send all data up to the pointL where it calls close(), or shutdown().  The server is likely to be using theL SO_LINGER socket option, (many TCP/IP implementations enable this by defaultJ or even hardwire it), which ensures the server process will wait until theE last byte is sent before the close() call completes.  You may like to K confirm this behaviour with the writer of the server software.  If the lasteE byte of data is sent by the server, then your client application willnK receive it with SS$_NORMAL.  One final fly in the ointment... know how your L program behaves when it receives OOB data.  E.g. has the programmer coded anG exit() upon reception of OOB data, which may result in the last byte(s)d being flushed.   Matt.h   --= -------------------------------------------------------------  OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporationh Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAo= -------------------------------------------------------------S    2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C46BB8D.146120B8@videotron.ca... > Simple question: > J > I read data from a server somewhere. Server disconnects the link when it hash > finished sending the data. >-L > Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last > byte has been read ? >:L > Or is it possible that the last IO will contain the last bit of data AND a? > status code indicating link was dosconnected (SS$_LINKDOSCON)v >tJ > Preliminary testing indicates that the data is all read with SS$_NORMAL, but Ie' > am not 100% sure if this is reliable.I >oG > Subsequent reads yield SS$_LINKDOSCONN, but also a byte count of 32 !S (seems1 > to be nulls since printf prints a null string).n >nK > What is the explanation of the iosb count value of 32 when a read did not4 work ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:00:03 GMTo4 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk question = Message-ID: <7AJ18.8668$gf1.48673@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   G [My first attempt to post didn't show up - maybe a long delay, or maybe   finger trouble - I'll try again]  G Any error will result in the 2nd word of the IOSB being set to the UNIXiH errno value.  From errno.h, 32 = EPIPE, Broken Pipe.  (See sec 5.4.2 I/O) Status Block, in the programmer's guide).a  L > Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last > byte has been read ?  I SS$_NORMAL means you have successfully read a buffer.  Your client-servernL protocol will need to determine if it is the "last byte".  You would need to6 define what the "last byte" means to your application.  H Unless the server exits abnormally it will send all data up to the pointL where it calls close(), or shutdown().  The server is likely to be using theL SO_LINGER socket option, (many TCP/IP implementations enable this by defaultJ or even hardwire it), which ensures the server process will wait until theE last byte is sent before the close() call completes.  You may like tohK confirm this behaviour with the writer of the server software.  If the lasteE byte of data is sent by the server, then your client application willIK receive it with SS$_NORMAL.  One final fly in the ointment... know how youraL program behaves when it receives OOB data.  E.g. has the programmer coded anG exit() upon reception of OOB data, which may result in the last byte(s)d being flushed.   Matt.g     --= -------------------------------------------------------------e OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering Enterprise Computing Group Compaq Computer Corporatione Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA = -------------------------------------------------------------s    2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C46BB8D.146120B8@videotron.ca... > Simple question: >eJ > I read data from a server somewhere. Server disconnects the link when it hass > finished sending the data. >sL > Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last > byte has been read ? > L > Or is it possible that the last IO will contain the last bit of data AND a? > status code indicating link was dosconnected (SS$_LINKDOSCON)  >tJ > Preliminary testing indicates that the data is all read with SS$_NORMAL, but I)' > am not 100% sure if this is reliable.e >sG > Subsequent reads yield SS$_LINKDOSCONN, but also a byte count of 32 !T (seems1 > to be nulls since printf prints a null string).  >hK > What is the explanation of the iosb count value of 32 when a read did not  work ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:33:06 -0500e% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>31 Subject: Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk questions, Message-ID: <3C477B49.480880A4@videotron.ca>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:I > Any error will result in the 2nd word of the IOSB being set to the UNIXaJ > errno value.  From errno.h, 32 = EPIPE, Broken Pipe.  (See sec 5.4.2 I/O+ > Status Block, in the programmer's guide).i  L That is highly non-VMS. If the second word of the IOSB is declared as a byteA count, it should be the byte count of 0 if the IO didn't succeed..  N > SO_LINGER socket option, (many TCP/IP implementations enable this by defaultL > or even hardwire it), which ensures the server process will wait until theG > last byte is sent before the close() call completes.  You may like tooA > confirm this behaviour with the writer of the server software. l  J Thanks. It is a web server. (Apache on Unix). And I have no way of knowingM when the stream of data is ending, except when the link is closed. I was just P concerned about the last packet having valid data in it but a DISCONNECT status.   > Compaq Computer Corporation" > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIA   L Does you office have a view on the ocean ? Do you work on the beach ? Do you go surfing during lunch hour ?   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 18:55:49 -0800) From: john@ossc.net (John Gemignani, Jr.)s1 Subject: Re: TCPIP services QIO readvblk questions= Message-ID: <35b06b78.0201171855.22c5e13d@posting.google.com>a  y "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@compaq.com> wrote in message news:<7AJ18.8668$gf1.48673@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...tI > [My first attempt to post didn't show up - maybe a long delay, or maybep" > finger trouble - I'll try again] > I > Any error will result in the 2nd word of the IOSB being set to the UNIXzJ > errno value.  From errno.h, 32 = EPIPE, Broken Pipe.  (See sec 5.4.2 I/O+ > Status Block, in the programmer's guide).e > N > > Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last > > byte has been read ? > K > SS$_NORMAL means you have successfully read a buffer.  Your client-server0N > protocol will need to determine if it is the "last byte".  You would need to8 > define what the "last byte" means to your application. > J > Unless the server exits abnormally it will send all data up to the pointN > where it calls close(), or shutdown().  The server is likely to be using theN > SO_LINGER socket option, (many TCP/IP implementations enable this by defaultL > or even hardwire it), which ensures the server process will wait until theG > last byte is sent before the close() call completes.  You may like toaM > confirm this behaviour with the writer of the server software.  If the last G > byte of data is sent by the server, then your client application willtM > receive it with SS$_NORMAL.  One final fly in the ointment... know how yourTN > program behaves when it receives OOB data.  E.g. has the programmer coded anI > exit() upon reception of OOB data, which may result in the last byte(s)  > being flushed. >  > Matt.P >  >  > --? > -------------------------------------------------------------i > OpenVMS TCP/IP Engineering > Enterprise Computing Group > Compaq Computer CorporationS > Gold Coast, AUSTRALIAt? > -------------------------------------------------------------. >  > 4 > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3C46BB8D.146120B8@videotron.ca... > > Simple question: > >nL > > I read data from a server somewhere. Server disconnects the link when it >  has > > finished sending the data. > >2N > > Am I garanteed to have an SS$_NORMAL in the io status block until the last > > byte has been read ? > >gN > > Or is it possible that the last IO will contain the last bit of data AND aA > > status code indicating link was dosconnected (SS$_LINKDOSCON)  > >:L > > Preliminary testing indicates that the data is all read with SS$_NORMAL, >  but I) > > am not 100% sure if this is reliable.> > >>I > > Subsequent reads yield SS$_LINKDOSCONN, but also a byte count of 32 !y	 >  (seemsS3 > > to be nulls since printf prints a null string).  > >uM > > What is the explanation of the iosb count value of 32 when a read did notr > work ?    C Providing the remote user did nothing to purge data from the socketiA before closing it, you should receive all data written before the A socket is closed, and you should be able to read all of that dataoC BEFORE receiving the error.  You will never receive an IOSB with an)> error AND a valid count, as some devices do with their IOSBs. C Whenever the (16-bit) status is not success, then the upper 16-bits 4 will be the equivalent Unix I/O status (Exxxx code).   -Johnu   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 13:30:10 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)D Subject: Unix under attack ... again!  Needs Bills security plan ...= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171330.63af8504@posting.google.com>t  - unix is hack city ... only vms is unhackable!d* sounds like the unix crowd needs to have a1 revelation like Bill Gates is now on security ...a  K http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,5101799,00.htmlt  $ Hackers digging through Solaris hole By Robert Lemose News.com January 16, 2002      = Online vandals are using a two-month-old security hole in SuneD Microsystems' Solaris and other Unix operating systems to break into8 servers on the Internet, a security expert said Tuesday.  ? Researchers witnessed the attack when one intruder broke into a-@ Solaris server under intense observation as part of the HoneynetC Project, an initiative to develop ways to turn spare computers intoa@ digital fly traps to study and document actual Internet attacks.  A "One of our honey pots got whacked with it," said Lance Spitzner,oD project manager for the Honeynet Project. "As far as we know, it was4 the first time we saw (this flaw) used in the wild."    ? The flaw, commonly referred to as a "buffer overflow," allows anE specially crafted packet of Internet data to cause a computer to giveh@ an online vandal full access to its capabilities. Details of theE software hole, which affects Solaris, IBM's AIX, HP-UX and other Unix . operating systems, were published in November.  B A system component used to remotely run applications--known as theC Common Desktop Environment subprocess control service--had the bug.5E Linux, which typically does not use the flawed component, seems to beeF unaffected. In the two months since details of the flaw were released,) vendors have published patches to fix it..  A In this particular instance, an attacker found the weakness in an ( unpatched Solaris server, Spitzner said.  E "The bad guy accessed our system, downloaded a back door, and made it.E so he could log in anytime he wanted," he said. "Then, he logged in at? couple days later and loaded a denial-of-service tool to attackc several online chat servers."y  A Denial-of-service, or DoS, attacks attempt to overload or crash ae& computer, thus making it inaccessible.  F The Computer Emergency Response Team, or CERT, Coordination Center, an? online security watchdog, first reported the vulnerability lastF	 November.y  B On Monday, the group posted an advisory about the use of the flaw,C adding that administrators should install the patch from Sun, limith9 access to the vulnerable service, or disable the service.e  B Solaris is Sun's proprietary variant of the Unix operating system.C Last October, the FBI published a list of flaws that affected majorg% operating systems, including Solaris.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:20:13 -0500,% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>i+ Subject: Re: VMS Basic Scalability Question , Message-ID: <3C475C2D.59124FF4@videotron.ca>   "Michael D. Ober" wrote:M > My question is this: which would scale better.  Having the server use $QIOWtN > to send the response or having the server use $QIO and then later explicitly > wait for the $QIO to finish.    J If your server sends a known number of individual "packets" of data to theI client, what you might want to do is to get an event flag for each of thelB steps, do a QIO to send the packet with its associated event flag.  J And then, once all of your QIOs are done, you wait for all the flags to beJ set. This way, you can do some processing while the QIOs actually execute.  + Remember that QIO is *QUEUE* an IO request.o  M Alternatively, depending on how big your response is, you might want to write N a jacket routine that accumulates data until its buffer is full and then sends5 it as a big chunk (but beware of limits with bufquo).n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:36:34 -0800 - From: "Douglas B Rupp" <rupp@nospam_gnat.com>d+ Subject: Re: vms emacs: last call? the end?,- Message-ID: <3c4738ee.0@topcat.tabbygnat.com>e  ! > Which tools are needed for GCC?CH > Is recent GCC really working on VMS, considering the general status ofE > non-Intel stuff and GCC, and that the .com-files are 2-3 years old?i  I Gcc 3.1 on AlphaVMS 7.x works quite well, in fact we are currently makingoL significant performance enhancements to GNAT (Gnu Ada) on VMS under contractF to Compaq. A lot of these enhancements are to the language independent? portion of Gcc and will benefit C. To be fair there is a lot of-I (non-performance related) work needed before Gcc could replace DEC C. FornG example Gnu C doesn't support mixed pointer sizes and can't handle mostS& DEC C headers without major reworking.  G .COM files are no long used. Gcc is configured with bash and built justfH like every other host. There are alot of Unix tools needed to build Gcc,H luckily most are ported quite easily since the same issues are seen over	 and over.e  F I'm not sure what you mean by your comment on non-Intel stuff and Gcc.   --Douglas Rupp Ada Core Technologies, Inc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:32:50 -0500 ( From: Philip Gagner <gagner@svg-law.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)8 Message-ID: <ggce4ucl9415ticbdvh7hechcm4lts93s3@4ax.com>  F On 20 Dec 2001 10:52:13 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: repeat 0 <stuff>  E >   I've programmed with a great many assemblers on a wide variety ofeD >   architectures.  The PDP-10 architecture is by no means the worstA >   (I'll nominate 80386 for that).  My problems with the PDP-10 y >   architecture were:     >tI >   1) PDP-10 is the only architecture I've worked with which has no user C >   accessable CPU registers.  One tends to use the accumulators onwE >   a PDP-10 as one would use registers on other systems, so for thistG >   comment I'll use the generic word register for both:  the PDP-10 isrF >   the only system I've used on which one register (accumulator 0) isE >   sometimes a real register and sometimes ignored.  Tripped up over  >   that one many times. >HF >   2) The use of a conditional skip instead of a conditional branch. < >   Assembly language programmers just don't think that way.  
 	TRNE REALITY 2 	JUMPE AC,NONSENSE	; because using both is better? 	s >-G >   3) The difficulties one had to go through to manipulate characters rG >   in 36 bits words as 7 bit bytes, and the impossibility of dumping 7rH >   bit characters in a recognizeable representation in a hex, octal, or" >   any other commonly used radix.   	ILDB AC,CHRSTRN' 	IDPB AC,HEXSTRN	;because he likes hex?   	JUMPNE AC,.-2		;because we can! >SK >   4) The limitted address range, even extended addressing was limitted tot >   23 bits. > G >   5) The requirement (except on the 2020) to use a PDP-11 in order tolL >   communicate with the outside world.  Typically an 11/40 or 11/60 serial 7 >   and print front end and an 11/34A DECnet front end.) >r  # 	DATAO DEV,WHATEVER	;Hey, ImNoCray!e  J >   6) The requirement for every fork to initialize it's own stack.   And I >   the ability of some instructions to use any accumulator as the stack tJ >   pointer, while other instruction assumed the standard stack pointer.  6 >   So when is the stack pointer in the stack pointer? >r  	 	AOS (SP)f) 	POPJ SP,	;because he hates skip returns!v   >   7) Not enough accumulators.l > F >   8) No support for paging (virtual memory concepts were limitted to >   swapping). >e >      ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 22:39:59 GMT0 From: gah@ugcs.caltech.edu (glen herrmannsfeldt)@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS), Message-ID: <a27jrv$fmi@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  * Philip Gagner <gagner@svg-law.com> writes:  G >On 20 Dec 2001 10:52:13 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)- >wrote:- >repeat 0 <stuff>-  F >>   I've programmed with a great many assemblers on a wide variety ofE >>   architectures.  The PDP-10 architecture is by no means the worsteB >>   (I'll nominate 80386 for that).  My problems with the PDP-10  >>   architecture were:g  : I agree that 80x86 is pretty bad as assembly languages go.  J >>   1) PDP-10 is the only architecture I've worked with which has no userD >>   accessable CPU registers.  One tends to use the accumulators onF >>   a PDP-10 as one would use registers on other systems, so for thisH >>   comment I'll use the generic word register for both:  the PDP-10 isG >>   the only system I've used on which one register (accumulator 0) isLF >>   sometimes a real register and sometimes ignored.  Tripped up over >>   that one many times.)  J I think more do than don't.  S/360 (S/370, S/390), as a CISC architecture,D and most RISC architectures.  There often needs to be an instructionD form that doesn't do something, but that one shouldn't waste a whole	 bit on.  :   >>G >>   2) The use of a conditional skip instead of a conditional branch. e= >>   Assembly language programmers just don't think that way.s   >	TRNE REALITY3 >	JUMPE AC,NONSENSE	; because using both is better?]  J It can only work with fixed size instructions.  Skip over an unconditionalB branch is as easy for a compiler to generate.  (Some architectures= have short conditional branch and long unconditional branch).n 	dH >>   3) The difficulties one had to go through to manipulate characters H >>   in 36 bits words as 7 bit bytes, and the impossibility of dumping 7I >>   bit characters in a recognizeable representation in a hex, octal, orY# >>   any other commonly used radix.s   >	ILDB AC,CHRSTRN ( >	IDPB AC,HEXSTRN	;because he likes hex?! >	JUMPNE AC,.-2		;because we can!o  C Yes, but it is inconvenient.  At the time, the 8 bit byte wasn't asy) popular and ASCII was a seven bit code.  (  L >>   4) The limitted address range, even extended addressing was limitted to
 >>   23 bits.v  A This is a problem.  Somewhere in "Hennessy & Patterson" it statescC that the one mistake that can't be overcome is too small an addresst< space.  Now, some have actually overcome it, but it is hard.F (ESA/390 to ES/AME, the 64 bit version of the IBM S/360 architecture).? PDP/11 extended to VAX, though with only limited compatibility.   H >>   5) The requirement (except on the 2020) to use a PDP-11 in order toM >>   communicate with the outside world.  Typically an 11/40 or 11/60 serial e8 >>   and print front end and an 11/34A DECnet front end. >>  $ >	DATAO DEV,WHATEVER	;Hey, ImNoCray!  ; This isn't an architecture constraint, so I don't count it.t  K >>   6) The requirement for every fork to initialize it's own stack.   And -J >>   the ability of some instructions to use any accumulator as the stack K >>   pointer, while other instruction assumed the standard stack pointer.  a7 >>   So when is the stack pointer in the stack pointer?a >>  
 >	AOS (SP)* >	POPJ SP,	;because he hates skip returns!  @ The decision over where stacks get created is one reason for not) liking stack based calling conventions.  l    >>   7) Not enough accumulators.  ? Not so bad considering when it was designed.  It is enough for K1 good register allocation algorithms to work with.t  G >>   8) No support for paging (virtual memory concepts were limitted to  >>   swapping).   @ I don't know if this is a fundamental problem.  There were a fewI complications in going from S/360 to S/370 relating to the restartabilityiB of instructions.  I thought that later machines did do paging, but I could be wrong on that.-   -- glen-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:38:29 -0800t+ From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>d@ Subject: Re: VMS missing features (was how to do deamons on VMS)U Message-ID: <Pine.NXT.4.50.0201171823270.6206-100000@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>t  * On 17 Jan 2002, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:L > >>   1) PDP-10 is the only architecture I've worked with which has no userF > >>   accessable CPU registers.  One tends to use the accumulators onH > >>   a PDP-10 as one would use registers on other systems, so for thisJ > >>   comment I'll use the generic word register for both:  the PDP-10 isI > >>   the only system I've used on which one register (accumulator 0) islH > >>   sometimes a real register and sometimes ignored.  Tripped up over > >>   that one many times.hL > I think more do than don't.  S/360 (S/370, S/390), as a CISC architecture,F > and most RISC architectures.  There often needs to be an instructionF > form that doesn't do something, but that one shouldn't waste a whole	 > bit on.   E What he's complaining about is that accumulator 0 can't be used as anCF index register, because 0 in the index register field means that thereG isn't any indexing.  So you can only have 15 index registers instead of  all 16 accumulators.  Aww...   > >>H > >>   2) The use of a conditional skip instead of a conditional branch.? > >>   Assembly language programmers just don't think that way.s > >	TRNE REALITY5 > >	JUMPE AC,NONSENSE	; because using both is better? L > It can only work with fixed size instructions.  Skip over an unconditionalD > branch is as easy for a compiler to generate.  (Some architectures? > have short conditional branch and long unconditional branch).I  I Fortunately, the PDP-10 did not have branches.  You could do branching if F you really wanted to, but very few people really wanted to unless they, were writing self-relocating code ala S/360.  I The PDP-10 had jumps instead, the difference being that the target of thesI jump is an address rather than an offset from current instruction as in as branch.   H Also, there certainly *were* conditional jumps.  There were 8 based uponE the contents of an accumulator vs zero.  There was also a very useful F conditional jump that was effectively the Fortran DO loop instruction.    I > >>   3) The difficulties one had to go through to manipulate charactersuJ > >>   in 36 bits words as 7 bit bytes, and the impossibility of dumping 7K > >>   bit characters in a recognizeable representation in a hex, octal, orh% > >>   any other commonly used radix.t > >	ILDB AC,CHRSTRNt* > >	IDPB AC,HEXSTRN	;because he likes hex?# > >	JUMPNE AC,.-2		;because we can!hE > Yes, but it is inconvenient.  At the time, the 8 bit byte wasn't as ) > popular and ASCII was a seven bit code.t  I It is, however, extremely convenient to access any size bit field withoute having to do masks and shifts.  N > >>   4) The limitted address range, even extended addressing was limitted to > >>   23 bits.BC > This is a problem.  Somewhere in "Hennessy & Patterson" it states E > that the one mistake that can't be overcome is too small an address- > space.  I In 1964, 18 bits was a huge address space.  Even today, it is good enoughmG for many applications because 18 bits on a PDP-10 was the equivalent of-I 20-21 bits on a byte-oriented machine.  Similarly, the 23-bit mode on theoI KLs translates into 25-26 bits, so unless your application is bigger thaneI 32MB it isn't a significant limit.  And that was a limit on that CPU, nottG on the architecture.  Note that some purportedly 32-bit CPUs had lesserI (e.g. 24-bit) address limits.L  F The architecture actually defines 30-bit addressing, which is at least1 equivalent to any 32-bit byte-oriented processor.h  G Yes, it's inferior to the 64-bit machines out there, but 32-bits hasn't( exactly died yet.   J > >>   5) The requirement (except on the 2020) to use a PDP-11 in order toN > >>   communicate with the outside world.  Typically an 11/40 or 11/60 serial: > >>   and print front end and an 11/34A DECnet front end.& > >	DATAO DEV,WHATEVER	;Hey, ImNoCray!= > This isn't an architecture constraint, so I don't count it.t  I As well you shouldn't; it's just nonsense.  The idea of using a front endeD CPU was quite politically correct at the time the KL10 processor wasH designed, but there were processors before and after that time which did not use front ends.   L > >>   6) The requirement for every fork to initialize it's own stack.   AndK > >>   the ability of some instructions to use any accumulator as the stack K > >>   pointer, while other instruction assumed the standard stack pointer. 9 > >>   So when is the stack pointer in the stack pointer?- > >	AOS (SP), > >	POPJ SP,	;because he hates skip returns!B > The decision over where stacks get created is one reason for not) > liking stack based calling conventions.n  @ Well, his complaint here is also nonsense.  There was no machineJ instruction that assuming any register as a stack pointer, although it wasG certainly the convention to use register 17 for that purpose.  A single J pseudo instruction in *one* of the operating systems, used for system callC error handling, assumed register 17, as did a macro library on that  operating system.   " > >>   7) Not enough accumulators.@ > Not so bad considering when it was designed.  It is enough for3 > good register allocation algorithms to work with.r  C 16 accumulators is certainly good enough for most assembly languagekE applications.  Compiler writers generally are the guys who want more.i  I > >>   8) No support for paging (virtual memory concepts were limitted toa > >>   swapping). 0 > I don't know if this is a fundamental problem.  I His complaint here was total nonsense.  Demand paging was invented on thetI PDP-10.  In fact, what makes the PDP-10 so hard to emulate is getting thesJ pager right, because it was so extremely sophisticated.  Paging stuff thatH is generally done in OS software today was done in hardware or microcode on the PDP-10.  
 -- Mark --   http://staff.washington.edu/mrcfF Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:34:52 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)5 Subject: You want security windows users ... use VMS!o= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201171134.341bce26@posting.google.com>g   enough said ...p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:53:11 -0500t" From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice)Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of compa0 Message-ID: <B86C95D7966811C1E@max1h-28.his.com>  4 In article <VA.00000511.1d1f8151@bluewin.delete.ch>,0 Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.delete.ch> wrote:  4  > REASONS WHY THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS HARD TO LEARN/  > 1) The bandage was wound around the wound...a  6 (I may have e-mailed this to you in past years, Paul.)  J The story accompanying this little ditty is apocryphal.  (Definite, provenK -- the story IS false.  It is a recent addition to a fairly old poem.)  ButrK its still a lovely poem.  I got through it, but a few portions take eithervH time or some minor adjustments to the syllabic emphasis.  I'm collecting items to add to it, too.     ENGLISH IS TOUGH STUFF!s  K Multi-national personnel at North Atlantic Treaty Organization headquartersdG near Paris found English to be an easy language ... until they tried tooI pronounce it.  To help them discard an array of accents, the verses belowcI were devised.  After trying them, a Frenchman said he'd prefer six months-J at hard labor to reading six lines aloud.  Try them yourself.       (Urban	 Folklore)a   Dearest creature in creation,i Study English pronunciation. I will teach you in my verse, Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse. I will keep you, Suzy, busy,$ Make your head with heat grow dizzy." Tear in eye, your dress will tear. So shall I!  Oh hear my prayer.c  % Just compare heart, beard, and heard,  Dies and diet, lord and word,m$ Sword and sward, retain and Britain.$ (Mind the latter, how it's written.)  Now I surely will not plague you# With such words as plaque and ague.  But be careful how you speak:t* Say break and steak, but bleak and streak; Cloven, oven, how and low,% Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.     Hear me say, devoid of trickery,$ Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,# Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,l Exiles, similes, and reviles;s Scholar, vicar, and cigar, Solar, mica, war and far;a One, anemone, Balmoral,i! Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;t  Gertrude, German, wind and mind, Scene, Melpomene, mankind.  " Billet does not rhyme with ballet,  Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet." Blood and flood are not like food,# Nor is mould like should and would.c" Viscous, viscount, load and broad, Toward, to forward, to reward. And your pronunciation's OKC When you correctly say croquet,g$ Rounded, wounded, grieve and sleeve,! Friend and fiend, alive and live.d   Ivy, privy, famous; clamoura And enamour rhyme with hammer. River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,a  Doll and roll and some and home.# Stranger does not rhyme with anger, " Neither does devour with clangour. Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,e* Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,) Shoes, goes, does.  Now first say finger,l  And then singer, ginger, linger,* Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,# Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.i   Query does not rhyme with very,m Nor does fury sound like bury.' Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.e Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.d# Though the differences seem little,T We say actual but victual.! Refer does not rhyme with deafer.a! Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.m Mint, pint, senate and sedate;  Dull, bull, and George ate late. Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,  Science, conscience, scientific.  # Liberty, library, heave and heaven,-  Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven. We say hallowed, but allowed, " People, leopard, towed, but vowed. Mark the differences, moreover,a Between mover, cover, clover; ! Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,d Chalice, but police and lice;n Camel, constable, unstable,k Principle, disciple, label.    Petal, panel, and canal,$ Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.% Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,o Senator, spectator, mayor.  Tour, but our and succour, four. Gas, alas, and Arkansas. Sea, idea, Korea, area,  Psalm, Maria, but malaria.* Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean. Doctrine, turpentine, marine.    Compare alien with Italian,  Dandelion and battalion. Sally with ally, yea, ye,c Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.n Say aver, but ever, fever," Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver. Heron, granary, canary.r Crevice and device and aerie.0   Face, but preface, not efface.% Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass. & Large, but target, gin, give, verging,' Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.h Ear, but earn and wear and teare Do not rhyme with here but ere.d Seven is right, but so is even,s  Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen, Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,$ Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.  ! Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!T Is a paling stout and spikey?h! Won't it make you lose your wits,   Writing groats and saying grits? It's a dark abyss or tunnel:, Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale, Islington and Isle of Wight, Housewife, verdict and indict.  $ Finally, which rhymes with enough --, Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough? Hiccough has the sound of cup. My advice is to give up!!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:52:28 -0500i2 From: Roland Hutchinson <rolands.spamtrap@usa.net>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The    demise    of comp 4 Message-ID: <a27kfj$uhmq5$1@ID-99522.news.dfncis.de>  E On Thursday 17 January 2002 14:53, Edward Rice <ehrice@his.com>wrote:y   > a fairly old poem. <snip> > Dearest creature in creation,m > Study English pronunciation.  ; This poem is in fact "De Chaos" by Dr Gerard Nolst Trenit mF (1870-1946), first published (in an earlier version) in his textbook  C "Drop Your Foreign Accent: engelsche uitspraakoefeningen" (4th ed. r+ Haarlem: H D Tjeenk Willink & Zoon, 1920).    B The original title is in Dutch, though the poem is, of course, in D English.  The title is generally translated as "The Chaos" on those A rare occasions when it is given with the poem.  A more idiomatic mE translation would, I think, be simply "Chaos", without the article.   B The subtitle of the textbook translates as "English Pronunciation  Exercises".a  E A history of the poem, plus a nicely edited and formatted version is r1 at http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~aa610/english.html>     -- rA Roland Hutchinson              Will play viola da gamba for food.c  A NB mail to rolands.spamtrap@usa.net is heavily filtered to remove(8 spam.  If your message looks like spam I may not see it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:53:10 -0500y" From: ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice)K Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The dem 0 Message-ID: <B86C95D6966811BB8@max1h-28.his.com>  . In article <3C41019E.4040806@beagle-ears.com>,* Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:  K  > Didn't someone say this week that if you plug a 2-button mouse into the s  > USB port,G  > it works, and works as expected? If so,  I would say they are doing m  > *exactly* theF  > right thing: Shipping it with a "beginner" interface, but allowing   > "experts" to upgrade.  K I've used (and continue to use) one-, two-, three-, and five-button mice onsI various Macs.  With some, a driver is needed, but the good ones work fineoI (with fewer buttons enabled) with other drivers, and only require the newnF driver to activate the features for the "additional" hardware.  When IJ bought an MS Intelli-mouse, I installed it first, and using just the firstK button, ran my system to download the new driver I needed from the MS site.iJ  (For a CD worth a dime, they couldn't have provided this in the package?  Cheap bastards.)  K Opinion: the MS IntelliPoint mouse is the finest product MS has ever made. h6 Not quite the only good one, but certainly the finest.  2   -- E "the other good one was MS File, in 1984" R   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:29:18 -0000a% From: Pete Fenelon <pete@fenelon.com>dK Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: The demE/ Message-ID: <u4ed0unc909f8f@corp.supernews.com>n  0 In comp.arch Edward Rice <ehrice@his.com> wrote: > M > Opinion: the MS IntelliPoint mouse is the finest product MS has ever made. n8 > Not quite the only good one, but certainly the finest. >   G I'm *very* fond of the Intellipoint trackball. I don't like mice; neverm= have; I've been looking for a comfortable, sensibly-priced PC C trackball for a long time, and this is the first that "feels right"AF to me. Works a dream with XP (which is a surprisingly non-bad product)  and is just fine with Linux too.  D I think the SoftCard is probably the best MS product ever, though :)   pete   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:42:54 +0100 , From: Toon Moene <toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re: Thedemise of compaq )h4 Message-ID: <3C47293E.65F50EB3@moene.indiv.nluug.nl>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  D > "Miracle on 34th Street" was a book that was written with or afterE > the movie.  IMO, both were the same.  IMO, the remakes of the movie 2 > were worse than the book and the original movie.  F Reminds me of "Apollo 13" - the original TV series was way better than) the movie, spotty as the schedule was ...!   --  G Toon Moene - mailto:toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl - phoneto: +31 346 214290k6 Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG  Maartensdijk, The NetherlandsG Maintainer, GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.htmlfE Join GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:29:21 GMTn8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories1 Message-ID: <lCF18.157$PZ4.1278@news.cpqcorp.net>   / > I would like to know why I cant move between w > directories using wildcards: >  > $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]  6 Because semantics are not defined for this expression.  E Do you want to set your default to the first directory that satisfiest
 the wildcard?    Or the last one?  L Do you want to include the wildcard in your actual default directory string?E (and whatever does THAT mean in terms of opening files in the defaultc( directory?  For reading and/or writing?)  B Do you want to work iteratively throug all directories that match? (and whatever does THAT mean?)  A It is possible that you have something quite reasonable in mind, sG but it is doubtful that it can be easily generalized.  You are probablytD much better off writing a command procedure to do whatever you want.   -- aK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAsH        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Jan 2002 12:04:24 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell)uB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories. Message-ID: <3MYnj4iBD8ZA@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  q In article <20020117113745.74807.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:f1 > I would like to know why I cant move between=20. > directories using wildcards: >  > $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*] >  > 
 > For example  > 	 > RegardsN >   8 if you have both [.FABIOCARTOONS] and [.FABIOCARTRIDGES]  ! which one will it set default to?n     -- iO ===============================================================================eM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxP: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)iO ===============================================================================nN Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:19:01 -0600 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> B Subject: RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directoriesL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E124@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7  : > if you have both [.FABIOCARTOONS] and [.FABIOCARTRIDGES]  # > which one will it set default to?x   It should probably build a logical containing both, and change to that ;)  That would be interesting, and in fact, you could possibly get it to do something like:   set def [...]*.dir;*   Regards,   Christ  ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");  'm  s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:38:13 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)oB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories0 Message-ID: <00A082FD.D1E5BB7C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <3MYnj4iBD8ZA@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) writes:r >In article <20020117113745.74807.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:2 >> I would like to know why I cant move between=20 >> directories using wildcards:2 >>   >> $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]  >> h >> s >> For example >>  
 >> Regards >> i >t9 >if you have both [.FABIOCARTOONS] and [.FABIOCARTRIDGES]e > " >which one will it set default to?  I If you set the default string with a wildcard, you might find the results I rather amusing.  Of course, you'll have to write your own program to pokec2 PIO$GT_DDSTRING with the wildcard default context.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM>            eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & HobbesI   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:04:32 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) B Subject: RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories0 Message-ID: <00A08301.7F1E911C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  z In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E124@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes: >t >> -----Original Message-----o1 >> From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7t > ; >> if you have both [.FABIOCARTOONS] and [.FABIOCARTRIDGES]d >a$ >> which one will it set default to? >  >It should probably build a logical containing both, and change to that ;)  That would be interesting, and in fact, you could possibly get it to do something like:i >s >set def [...]*.dir;*e >o	 >Regards,l >i >Chris > " >Christopher Smith, Perl Developer >Amdocs - Champaign, ILt >s >/usr/bin/perl -e ' @ >print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); >' >   + $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS]c $ CREATE/DIRECTORY []e, $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTRIDGE] $ CREATE/DIRECTORY []r $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM SDA> SHOW PROCESS       :      :- Extended PID: 202002B7     Thread index: 0000 - --------------------------------------------- 5 Current capabilities:    System: 0000000C  QUORUM,RUNr)                          User:   00000000o5 Permanent capabilities:  System: 0000000C  QUORUM,RUNm)                          User:   00000000n! Current affinities:      00000000r! Permanent affinities:    00000000r! Thread status:           02040001 !        status2:          00000001n  F KTB address              00000000    HWPCB address            82548080F PKTA address             7FFEFF98    Callback vector address  00000000F Internal PID             000100B7    Callback error           00000000F Extended PID             202002B7    Current CPU id           00000001F State                       CUR      Flags                    00000000F Base priority                   4    Current priority                8F Waiting EF cluster              1    Event flag wait mask     BFFFFFFFF CPU since last quantum       FFFA    Mutex count                     0! ASTs active                  NONEu   SDA> EVALUATE PIO$GT_DDSTRING2G Hex = 00000000.7FFD0228   Decimal = 2147287592          FIL$GT_DDSTRING-G                                                         PIO$GT_DDSTRINGe SDA> EXAMIN PIO$GT_DDSTRING;18K 45474449 52545241 434F4942 41465B11  .[FABIOCARTRIDGE     00000000.7FFD0228cK 00000000 00000000 00000000 00005D53  S]..............     00000000.7FFD02380   SDA> SPAWN RUN SYS$SHARE:DELTA OpenVMS Alpha DELTA Debugger  
 Exit 00000001:  2 80058F80!       LDQ             R28,#X0008(SP) 1;m 00000001# 000100B7:7FFD0228/41465B11 41465B0Bd 000100B7:7FFD0228/41465B0B t 000100B7:7FFD022C/434F4942# 000100B7:7FFD0230/52545241 5D2A5241i EXIT  SDA> EXAMINE  PIO$GT_DDSTRING;18K 45474449 5D2A5241 434F4942 41465B0B  .[FABIOCAR*]IDGE     00000000.7FFD0228 K 00000000 00000000 00000000 00005D53  S]..............     00000000.7FFD0238t	 SDA> EXITo $ SHOW DEFAULT   SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCAR*]a $ DIRECTORYl! %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found / $ CREATE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS]ROCKY.TXTo  [Exit]o4 $ CREATE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS]BULLWINKLE.TXT  [Exit]d $ dirh  ' Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS]d   BULLWINKLE.TXT;1    ROCKY.TXT;1i   Total of 2 files.e  0 $ CREATE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTRIDGES]TAPE.TXT  [Exit]r3 $ CREATE SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTRIDGES]SHOTGUN.TXTo  [Exit]s $ DIRECTORYd A533U2$ diro  ' Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS]    BULLWINKLE.TXT;1    ROCKY.TXT;1s   Total of 2 files.i  ) Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTRIDGES]    SHOTGUN.TXT;1       TAPE.TXT;1   Total of 2 files.   & Grand total of 2 directories, 4 files. $    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:48:36 -0600 + From: Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com>oB Subject: RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directoriesL Message-ID: <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E130@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>   > -----Original Message-----@ > From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]   *incantations snipped*  < > 45474449 5D2A5241 434F4942 41465B0B  .[FABIOCAR*]IDGE        *snip again*  ) > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS]h > ! > BULLWINKLE.TXT;1    ROCKY.TXT;1e >  > Total of 2 files.o > + > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTRIDGES]d >   > SHOTGUN.TXT;1       TAPE.TXT;1 >  > Total of 2 files.d > ( > Grand total of 2 directories, 4 files. > $u  " Is this -- err... "documented?" :)   Regards,   Chrisv      ! Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  Amdocs - Champaign, IL   /usr/bin/perl -e '? print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");n 'o  a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 22:59:22 GMTc= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)wB Subject: RE: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories0 Message-ID: <00A08309.2836DA21@SendSpamHere.ORG>  z In article <3B55D7F383B0D31197D9009027541CBF1170E130@cmiexch1.cmi.itds.com>, Christopher Smith <csmith@amdocs.com> writes: >> -----Original Message-----tA >> From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG [mailto:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]e >c >*incantations snipped*a >a= >> 45474449 5D2A5241 434F4942 41465B0B  .[FABIOCAR*]IDGE     s >n
 >*snip again*r > * >> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTOONS] >> e" >> BULLWINKLE.TXT;1    ROCKY.TXT;1 >>   >> Total of 2 files. >> i, >> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[FABIOCARTRIDGES] >> l! >> SHOTGUN.TXT;1       TAPE.TXT;1h >> e >> Total of 2 files. >> e) >> Grand total of 2 directories, 4 files.c >> $ >v# >Is this -- err... "documented?" :)   % It is now.  I just documented it!  ;)c   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:08:11 GMTa4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>B Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories0 Message-ID: <3C476680.B8A1540C@blueyonder.co.uk>    yp > In article <3MYnj4iBD8ZA@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) writes:t > >In article <20020117113745.74807.qmail@web20206.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> writes:4 > >> I would like to know why I cant move between=20! > >> directories using wildcards:e > >> > >> $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]e > >> > >> > >> For example > >> > >> Regards > >> > >,; > >if you have both [.FABIOCARTOONS] and [.FABIOCARTRIDGES]  > > $ > >which one will it set default to?  i= define a logical name which is a search list pointing at eacho, of the matches in turn then set def to that?   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  e  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.033 ************************