0 INFO-VAX	Sat, 19 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 36      Contents: Re: $FAO tips & triks  Re: $FAO tips & triks  A position statement Re: A position statement Re: A position statementC Re: Any examples of setting up an FTP session from within an image? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 RE: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? + Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!  Re: Change quorum disk question  Re: Change quorum disk question ! Re: Copying a file in C++, again.  Re: Dec2000 and Decserver 90! Re: DFWCUG Next Meeting, Jan 22nd ) Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support?  emacs21 and ast troublesP Re: Evidence of external help required for a VMS reboot - was: 17  years and sti5 Re: Ford picks Alpha, beats pant off of Sun, HP, IBM! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! 1 Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC B Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq3 Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ? $ Making bootable images from VMS disk( Re: Making bootable images from VMS disk( Re: Making bootable images from VMS disk( Re: Making bootable images from VMS disk5 Re: Need help with ANAL/ERROR output -- 2 disk errors 6 Re: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & Java5 Re: OT: Sun To Drop/Delay Intel Support For Solaris 9 ( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof" RE: Rise and Fall of the Magaloids Re: RMS Journaling Re: Searching one VAX/11 Re: xml and OpenVMS 5 Re: [OT / Humor] Things not to do on a *nix system... 5 Re: [OT / Humor] Things not to do on a *nix system... 9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:40:18 +0300 4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru> Subject: Re: $FAO tips & triks0 Message-ID: <3C4922E2.B86C6858@smtp.deltatel.ru>   Hello, Kenneth, B 	thanks for the answer. I'd like to use !XB (?) FAO' directive w/oG looping at all, if this is possible. I'm need to print in hex form some  binary vector.   Kenneth H. Fairfield wrote:  >  > "Ruslan R. Laishev" wrote: >  > > Hello All!R > >         I'd like to print some byte array in a hex form, is there any tips andA > > triks how to do this w/o loops by using only $FAO directive ?  > E >     Use the !XB directive, although I wouldn't call that a "trick". % > Now what was it you wanted to know?  > 
 >     -Ken > --8 > I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...   --   Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com 8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:41:16 +0300 4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru> Subject: Re: $FAO tips & triks0 Message-ID: <3C49231C.CD2797BB@smtp.deltatel.ru>   Hi !F 	Thanks for the very nice example, but you use looping, is there a way
 w/o loop ?     Malcolm wrote: > A > "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru> wrote in message , > news:3C487449.8F64C274@smtp.deltatel.ru... > > Hello All!J > > I'd like to print some byte array in a hex form, is there any tips andA > > triks how to do this w/o loops by using only $FAO directive ?  > >  > > -- > Hmm. repeated uses of !XB. > H > But, here's a nice trick. It prints an ASCII character table in DCL by" > exploiting the 'plural' support: >  > Very fast. >  > -Malcolm.  > ' > $! ASCIITAB.COM - Show an ASCII table  > $! > $! Control chars..I > $ CTRLCHR_FAO = "!0UL!0%C<NUL>!1%C<SOH>!2%C<STX>!3%C<ETX>!4%C<EOT>" + - K >                 "!5%C<ENQ>!6%C<ACK>!7%C<BEL>!8%C<BS> !9%C<HT> !10%C<LF> "  > + - J >                 "!11%C<VT> !12%C<FF> !13%C<CR> !14%C<SO> !15%C<SI> " + -I >                 "!16%C<DLE>!17%C<DC1>!18%C<DC2>!19%C<DC3>!20%C<DC4>"+ - I >                 "!21%C<NAK>!22%C<SYN>!23%C<ETB>!24%C<CAN>!25%C<EM> "+ - I >                 "!26%C<SUB>!27%C<ESC>!28%C<FS> !29%C<GS> !30%C<RS> "+ - ? >                 "!31%C<US> !32%C<SPC>!127%C<DEL>!%E8-BIT?!%F" 2 > $ CTRLCHR8_FAO= "!0UL!128%C<x80>!129%C<x81>" + -N >                 "!130%C<x82>!131%C<x83>!132%C<IND>!133%C<NEL>!134%C<SSA>"+ -N >                 "!135%C<ESA>!136%C<HTS>!137%C<HTJ>!138%C<VTS>!139%C<PLD>"+ -N >                 "!140%C<PLU>!141%C<RI> !142%C<SS2>!143%C<SS3>!144%C<DCS>"+ -N >                 "!145%C<PU1>!146%C<PU2>!147%C<STS>!148%C<CCH>!149%C<MW> "+ -N >                 "!150%C<SPA>!151%C<EPA>!152%C<x98>!153%C<x99>!154%C<x9A>"+ -8 >                 "!155%C<CSI>!156%C<ST> !157%C<OSC>"+ -@ >                 "!158%C<PM> !159%C<APC>!256%C[End]!%ENONCC!%F"
 > $ base=0 > $ mult=32  > $ offset=0 > $ line="" 	 > $ loop:  > $ chr = base+(mult*offset) > $ hexchr = f$fao("!XB",chr) ! > $ ctrl = f$fao(ctrlchr_fao,chr) > > $ if ctrl .eqs. "8-BIT?" then ctrl = f$fao(ctrlchr8_fao,chr) > $ if ctrl .eqs. "NONCC"  > $ then > $   thechr[0,8] = %X'hexchr - > $   line=line+" "+hexchr+"   "+thechr+"  |"  > $ else' > $   line=line+" "+hexchr+" "+ctrl+"|" 	 > $ endif  > $ offset = offset+1  > $ if offset .eq. 8 > $ then > $   write sys$output line 
 > $   line=""  > $   offset=0 > $   base=base+1 	 > $ endif " > $ if base .le. 31 then goto loop >  > > Cheers, Ruslan. H > > +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+? > >       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com < > >         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS. > >                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222E > >    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU    --   Cheers, Ruslan. D +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.com 8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RU    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:36:42 +0100 1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>  Subject: A position statement 5 Message-ID: <3C494C3A.211300E8@swissonline.delete.ch>   G This is a summary of my current thinking about Compaq and VMS.  You may G not agree with my statements but I hope it gives some food for thought.     G 1.  Compaq's transfer of Alpha made short-term financial sense.  In the D circumstances that they had created for themselves, removing a largeE part of an expense of roughly $400 million per annum is a fair call.  B Whether it is a smart long-term move remains to be seen; there are= certainly some favorable aspects and there are certainly some  unfavorable aspects.  F 2.  Compaq's handling of the announcement of the transfer was poor andD their justifications were weak.  Various announcements about methodsF which will reduce the customers' costs of change of platform have doneH something to redress the balance.  Personally I would chalk it up as yet3 another failure in their "external communications".   H 3.  Compaq appears to be run as four separate competing companies - VMS,D NSK, Tru64 and NT - and this kind of attitude is a major obstacle to> income growth.  These subcompanies never mention each other inG advertising and, even worse, the sales philosophy seems to be to divide F the range of possible markets into four sectors - VMS being sandwichedF between NSK and Unix - and that the given platform will ONLY advertise? to that sector.  To put it very politely, I just cannot see any + reasonable justification for this approach.   E 4.  The OpenVMS division within Compaq seems to be enthusiastic about F the platform and certainly want to improve sales.  The obstacles trulyF seem to be elsewhere.  Given that only the VMS people in Compaq appearH to read this newsgroup, any criticism here - constructive or otherwise -E is misdirected.  Compaq's VMS people and us here all seem to want the H best for VMS - to see it grow in use, to expand the markets which use itG - and we would be better to join forces in this task than to spend time H arguing.  (I know that Compaq's VMS people are the "face of the company"E from our perspective but when all of us are in violent agreement with B our aims - but maybe not method! - it really makes little sense to harangue them.)   G 5.  In regard to the previous point, it seems that Compaq's competitors H have been using information from this newsgroup that criticizes Compaq'sD actions as regards VMS.  This can only have a negative affect on VMSE sales and so it plays directly into the hands of the people in Compaq F who believe that VMS should be ignored.  What needs to be done in thisH group (when we are not dealing with technical questions) is to encourage= the growth of VMS sales and to show its advantages over other G platforms.  (In regard to the former, reports of sales into new markets F are always interesting and for the latter, just how difficult is it to. show the security advantages that VMS enjoys?)  @ 6.  In a broader picture we need to do what we can to reduce theG influence of those people in Compaq who appear to have relegated VMS to E the "second division" of platforms (along with NSK).  For some reason H the PC "sub-company" appears to have preference in Compaq, regardless ofE the questionable logic in supporting something that has produced such F small return on investment for the last few years and is very unlikelyH to change this situation in future.  Whether this PC emphasis comes fromG the marketing people or from the decision-makers at the top is somewhat E irrelevant.  We need to work with Compaq's VMS people to convince the @ decision-makers that there are very good reasons to increase theD publicity of VMS.  When that action results in greater VMS sales andD hence greater income, we will have clearly demonstrated that it is aB platform which deserves rather more attention than it is currentlyH receiving.  If this reduces of the credibility of those providing pro-PCE advice to Compaq's decision-makers, then so be it; I for one won't be  upset.     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:21:22 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: A position statement , Message-ID: <3C4972D0.7052BDAF@videotron.ca>   John McLean wrote:H > 2.  Compaq's handling of the announcement of the transfer was poor and! > their justifications were weak.   M If the justifications were weak, it means that the decision was wrong. Compaq N should have simply stated that although Alpha was superior and would have beenM able to continue to lead for at least a decade, that Compaq didn't want to be O in the chip business, that it shut down Alpha and found jobs for its employees.   L That would probably have been much closer to the truth than the lame excusesL Compaq gave. "Server consolidation" won't happen because each platform needsK its specific hardware requirements. Whether Tandem ran on Alpha or IA64, it % will still need its unique hardware.    I The only savings will be the elimination of the DS10 and DS20 lines since ' those can be replaced by proliant toys.   N And lets not forget the simple matter that if Compaq had wanted, it could haveN pushed Alpha as a "industry standard" platform years ago. It would have killedI IA64. And then Intel might have paid big bucks to acquire Alpha (at which K point, Compaq could have stated that they were not in teh chip business and L that Alpha would move ahead much faster in the hands of Intel (who , at that# point, would have abandonned IA64).   & >  Various announcements about methodsH > which will reduce the customers' costs of change of platform have done# > something to redress the balance.   J But if Compaq must bribe customers with promises of free hardware etc., itK means that its premises for the shutdown of Alpha were wrong. Remember that 9 Compaq said that IA64 would surpass Alpha in performance.   I > 5.  In regard to the previous point, it seems that Compaq's competitors J > have been using information from this newsgroup that criticizes Compaq'sF > actions as regards VMS.  This can only have a negative affect on VMSG > sales and so it plays directly into the hands of the people in Compaq * > who believe that VMS should be ignored.   N So ?  If Compaq didn't like the complaints of its handling of VMS, then CompaqK would take actions to counter the criticism s from its customers. Compaq is L not taking actions, therefore this newsgroup is of no consequence to Compaq.  J BTW, where is "Compaq senior management's response to Gartner ? We've onlyN seen the grunt response that promised that senior management would handle thisE issue. My guess is that senior management won't do anything about it.        > What needs to be done in this J > group (when we are not dealing with technical questions) is to encourage? > the growth of VMS sales and to show its advantages over other  > platforms.    H Sorry, I completely disagree with this NOW.  It is OK to work *with* theK vendor to increase sales. That is how VMS grew in the 1980s. Word of mouth.   D But why should customer work AGAINST the vendor ?  Why should we, asL customers, convince other potential customers not to listen to all the signsK coming from Compaq that VMS is is being slowly downsized out of existence ?   L I could not, in all conscience, recommend to a new customer jump into VMS orL Tru64.  Yes, it is easy to talk about the strengths of VMS as an OS. But not  as a IT solution in this decade.  N I have fought against Digital/Compaq to save VMS for over a decade, and it hasN brought me only negative benefits. I have lost contracts/relationships becauseN I had pitched VMS to new york bankers and they did not want to base a solution9 on VMS because VMS was to die in a few years (mid 1990s).     N If Compaq were to show true long lasting commitment to VMS, or just sell it toH someone who was willing to promote and grow VMS out of its few remaining. niches, then yeah, I would gladly promote it.   N And I did put my money where my mouth was. Back in 1989, I invested $20,000 ofL my own money to buy a Microvax II and go into my own VMS business because myK employer then had ditched Digital due to their arrogance and went with (big  mistake) Data General.  M But that devotion to VMS has made me redundant, with useless legacy skills. I J have stopped fighting Compaq. It doesn't mean that I support it.  For whatI they and Palmer have done to VMS, they deserve a slow and painful death.    L I have pity for the grunts who work at the VMS level at Compaq. They have toH keep a nice smile and somehow portray VMS as being nice and healthy evenM though they that have 0 support from the rest of the Compaq corporation and 0 M support from local sales offices to push VMS as a solution. But at least they  have a salary to do that.    ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 06:36:19 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.120519.killspam.00c7 (Wayne Sewell) ! Subject: Re: A position statement . Message-ID: <6kE3Cnfvlx7o@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  i In article <3C494C3A.211300E8@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:    > J > 3.  Compaq appears to be run as four separate competing companies - VMS, > NSK, Tru64 and NT -   M Separate, yes.  Competing, no.  VMS isn't *allowed* to compete with the billy M division.  If it was, there could be some fundamental shifts in server ratios 
 worldwide.   --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================tN Sparky (from Bring It On): "In cheerleading, we throw people in the air.  Fat  	people don't go as high."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:56:41 +0100e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>eL Subject: Re: Any examples of setting up an FTP session from within an image?) Message-ID: <3C49A549.6DA5CAD3@gtech.com>l   Nick wrote:aC > Anyone got an example of setting up an FTP session from within an.- > image, any compilers source would be great.  > = > I don't want to spawn or creprc as its a waste of resource..  : The FTP protocol is much more complicated than f.ex. HTTP.  % You are probbaly better off spawning.l  : If you are interested then I do have some C++ code you can start with.i   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:22:17 GMT( From: joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher)@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?8 Message-ID: <3c496408.1781351@news1.uncensored-news.com>  D Thanks for the info. I am in the UK and finding someone with workingD boxes at a not to high price may be difficult but I will have a huntC around on the net. Ebay did'nt seem to offer much from the UK, onlyiE one chap selling untested boxes without pictures or good discriptionslD so I don't think that is the way I need to go. I'm sure all this kit; ends up somewhere so it's just a case of finding it.... :0/l  E If anyone knows any good uk outfits that will sell old vaxstations atd% reasonable prices please let me know.e   Regards, Herb  C On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:25:20 GMT, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz>  wrote:   > * >joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher) wrote: >>Hi people, >>E >>Well I am an out of work vms/unix operator in the UK, since I enjoysH >>messing with systems and things at home, ie linux box, home network onH >>windows etc, I was wondering is it possible to build a vms box at homeE >>for a home project? I only have 2 years exp. working with vms as aneC >>operator and maybe a project like this would help me stay in "vms-: >>mode" like I can with unix, ie shell accounts and linux. >>E >>Any tips, info, websites, possible hardware specs, os possibilities$# >>etc would be greatly appreciated.E >> >>Herb >> >>  B >Sure, very well possible I'd say. A VAXstation 3100 (-38, -48) is? >cheap, possibly even free but somewhat performance challenged.IC >A VAXstation 4000 (-60 or -90, -90A or -98) is much better but youfH >might have to pay for them, it just depends. I was given a 4000-90A for >free.  A >It is worth the effort, especially if you can manager to get two I >machines, the second could be a regular VAX, so you can build a cluster. @ >Next, obtain a VAX/VMS distribution and licenses from Montagar. >Licenses you'd need are:t >t >VMS ("D" license),  >UCX (or TCPIP)  >DECneto >nF >and a compiler if you feel like programming. Bliss is included on theE >freeware CD. C, Fortran, Pascal, Cobol and ADA are options but at a S? >price. IIRC PL/I, Basic, and Coral-66 are no longer supported.sA >There used to be a free Modula-2 compiler (Univ. of Hamburg ???)+ >9E >Note that was VAX/VMS only, I have no idea about the availability ofFG >Alphas though a 3000 is probably cheap too nowadays. But a 3000-400 is1% >not much faster than a high end VAX.l >h >Good luck and have fun, >: >HansA >i >& >i >  >http://www.zfree.co.nz7    F ______________________________________________________________________R Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comP    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source      ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:27:02 GMT( From: joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher)@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?8 Message-ID: <3c4d65d8.2244687@news1.uncensored-news.com>  E Thanks for the info, as soon as I can find a vax or aphabox at a good'. price here in the uk, I will start my project.   Regards,  6 On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:16:38 +0100, "Dijk, Jeroen van"% <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> wrote:U  : >I have as wel a vaxbox as an alphabox as a hobby project. >!< >First step is to buy an alpha of a vax box. (www.ebay.com) < >Secondly find the VMS hobby CD and license. (www.decus.com)D >Thirdly find the extra hardware you need to do the things you want + >as example running OpenVMS of DECwindows. 1 >N4 >An help you need you can get here in the newsgroup. >  >  >  >! >> -----Original Message-----9= >> From: joechip31@hotmail.com [mailto:joechip31@hotmail.com]!& >> Sent: vrijdag 18 januari 2002 14:01 >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com? >> Subject: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?C >> ! >> <
 >> Hi people,  >>  F >> Well I am an out of work vms/unix operator in the UK, since I enjoyI >> messing with systems and things at home, ie linux box, home network on I >> windows etc, I was wondering is it possible to build a vms box at home+F >> for a home project? I only have 2 years exp. working with vms as anD >> operator and maybe a project like this would help me stay in "vms; >> mode" like I can with unix, ie shell accounts and linux.% >>  F >> Any tips, info, websites, possible hardware specs, os possibilities$ >> etc would be greatly appreciated. >> X >> Herb  >> t >> fI >> ______________________________________________________________________r7 >> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - h! >> http://www.uncensored-news.coml= >>    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds   >> Uncensored News Source  >>     >> f    F ______________________________________________________________________R Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comP    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source      ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:25:26 GMT( From: joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher)@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?8 Message-ID: <3c4c6550.2108782@news1.uncensored-news.com>  E Thanks Freddy, I have emailed you about an account. Although I am not 1 quite sure what I could do with a vms shell yet. -   Regards,  8 On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:26:29 +0100, "Frederik Meerwaldt" <frederik@freddym.org> wrote:t  
 >Hi there, >r8 >you can get free OpenVMS/vax accounts on a VAX 6410 on: >  ><ad>T >i< >vax6k.openecs.org - see the HTTP site for more information: >http://vax6k.openecs.org  >e	 ></ad> ;)a >0 >Greetings - Freddyr    F ______________________________________________________________________R Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comP    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source      ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 12:37:44 GMT( From: joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher)@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?8 Message-ID: <3c50664b.2360293@news1.uncensored-news.com>  B Well it's kinda better than blowing 1.5 to 5k a time on overpricedD training courses. I'm at the bottom end of I.T and need some skills,; how would you suggest improving them without a box at home?l  B >Interesting query. I usually associate "out of work" with "out ofI >money". Please make sure your dependents are provided for before blowing  >your bankroll on hardware.     F ______________________________________________________________________R Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comP    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source      ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2002 07:16:26 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?3 Message-ID: <tfdmWkZEblpQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  b In article <d56d1c2d.0201181759.7354b3bd@posting.google.com>, cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes:U > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message news:<3c482cc2$1@zfree.co.nz>...i, >> joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher) wrote: >>A >> price. IIRC PL/I, Basic, and Coral-66 are no longer supported.n >                     ?????a                ????e   Uh?e  - PL/I is supported on VAX and Alpha by Kednos.e  < Tom Linden from Kednos occasionally posts in this newsgroup,> often about what other computer manufacturers do or have done.   > Uh?o >  > I didn't see anything at > A > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/basic/basic_index.html  > ? > indicating anything along the lines of "BASIC is going away."k   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 06:17:25 -0800c# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t@ Subject: RE: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEHMDPAA.tom@kednos.com>e  F Wow!, Thanks for the plug, Larry.  Actually if you have an Hobbyist's 9 License you can get PL/I for $250, and it is available onn   VAX 5.5-2 to 7.3 AXP 6.2 to 7.3 Tru64 4.0d to 5.1   B Documentation is free and may be downloaded from freja.kednos.com.; The kits are there as well, but you will need a license pak B to activate them, obviously.  To obtain such a license you need to= send a copy of your Hobbyist License from Compaq and $250 to:t   Kednos Corporation 1051 Rodeo RoadI Pebble Beach, CA 93953  ? Of course, if you like to program the hard way, stick with C:-)t   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net]* > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:16 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComeB > Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible? >  > @ > In article <d56d1c2d.0201181759.7354b3bd@posting.google.com>, & > cstranslations@msn.com (Joe) writes:7 > > "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message  " > news:<3c482cc2$1@zfree.co.nz>.... > >> joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher) wrote: > >>C > >> price. IIRC PL/I, Basic, and Coral-66 are no longer supported.h > >                     ?????  >                ????  >  > Uh?c > / > PL/I is supported on VAX and Alpha by Kednos.  > > > Tom Linden from Kednos occasionally posts in this newsgroup,@ > often about what other computer manufacturers do or have done. >  > > Uh?h > >  > > I didn't see anything at > > C > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/basic/basic_index.htmla > > A > > indicating anything along the lines of "BASIC is going away."e >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:56:14 GMTt" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?2 Message-ID: <iOf28.7257$E82.20401@typhoon.bart.nl>  L Irrespective of the state of your wallet, a system at home is better than 10 at work.H At home you can do whatever you want with the system, it IS your own and	 that doeslF make a difference. Example: my first attempt to use the Xmotif GUI for DECnet phase 5J (it was called that at the time) was at home.I tried some show command and it crashed VMS.vK Now that does *not* happen often and I was very glad it did not happen on a 
 productionJ machine. A memo reported this event to VMS system management and to DEC. I
 never touchedh: the GIU again, but I assume that those problems are fixed.G Even though I've managed to prevent certain problems due to "do this atp home" experimentsn6 I prefer to pay for the hardware out of my own pocket,   Hans  3 Herb Asher <joechip31@hotmail.com> wrote in messager2 news:3c50664b.2360293@news1.uncensored-news.com...D > Well it's kinda better than blowing 1.5 to 5k a time on overpricedF > training courses. I'm at the bottom end of I.T and need some skills,= > how would you suggest improving them without a box at home?h >AD > >Interesting query. I usually associate "out of work" with "out ofK > >money". Please make sure your dependents are provided for before blowing  > >your bankroll on hardware.  >t >eH > ______________________________________________________________________5 > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -h http://www.uncensored-news.comK >    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News  Source >l   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 15:25:37 GMT( From: joechip31@hotmail.com (Herb Asher)@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?9 Message-ID: <3c498e3f.12588291@news1.uncensored-news.com>o  D Can someone post me a short list of the main vax boxes that would beE suitable for home project use and things like on board memory, speed, 7 and would they be usable with a pc monitor and mouse.. s  D Before I left my last job we installed some blue boxes, i'm not sureF if they were alpha's but maybe they were. We were able to use these onD our pc monitor's and they had some color in decwindows as apposed toA the normal vt green or grey. Any idea what these boxes would have F been, they were desktops not towers and I remember support saying they> were not amazingly fast just better than the old boxes we had.  D Also, any uk vms people who can recomend a retailer for decommisonedF boxes? I have had a scan of the net, including ebay and it doesnt look
 that good.   Regards, Herb  E On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:56:14 GMT, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote:t  M >Irrespective of the state of your wallet, a system at home is better than 10 	 >at work.eI >At home you can do whatever you want with the system, it IS your own ando
 >that doesG >make a difference. Example: my first attempt to use the Xmotif GUI fore >DECnet phase 5sK >(it was called that at the time) was at home.I tried some show command ands >it crashed VMS.L >Now that does *not* happen often and I was very glad it did not happen on a >productioneK >machine. A memo reported this event to VMS system management and to DEC. Io >never touched; >the GIU again, but I assume that those problems are fixed.oH >Even though I've managed to prevent certain problems due to "do this at >home" experiments7 >I prefer to pay for the hardware out of my own pocket,g >s >Hansa >o4 >Herb Asher <joechip31@hotmail.com> wrote in message3 >news:3c50664b.2360293@news1.uncensored-news.com...lE >> Well it's kinda better than blowing 1.5 to 5k a time on overpricednG >> training courses. I'm at the bottom end of I.T and need some skills,(> >> how would you suggest improving them without a box at home? >>E >> >Interesting query. I usually associate "out of work" with "out ofoL >> >money". Please make sure your dependents are provided for before blowing >> >your bankroll on hardware. >> >>I >> ______________________________________________________________________I6 >> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - >http://www.uncensored-news.comeL >>    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News >Sources >> >e    F ______________________________________________________________________R Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.comP    With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source      ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 10:53 CSTa' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)u@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?- Message-ID: <19JAN200210531750@gerg.tamu.edu>u   joechip31@hotmail.com writes...tE }Can someone post me a short list of the main vax boxes that would beaF }suitable for home project use and things like on board memory, speed,8 }and would they be usable with a pc monitor and mouse..   C Any VAXstation 4000 series systems (VLC is slowest and smallest and2I is restricted to a relatively paltry 24MB of memory, the numbered systems F are of increaseing speed from the model 60 up to the higher numbers, I$ think the highest was the model 96).  G The VAXstation 3100 model 76 shouldn't be too bad (I think they top out H at 32MB of memory, but it might be 64 - it might not be exactly "off the shelf" memory either).  7 For monitors, they need one that can do synch on green.=  E }Before I left my last job we installed some blue boxes, i'm not suretG }if they were alpha's but maybe they were. We were able to use these oncE }our pc monitor's and they had some color in decwindows as apposed touB }the normal vt green or grey. Any idea what these boxes would haveG }been, they were desktops not towers and I remember support saying they:? }were not amazingly fast just better than the old boxes we had.' }Herb   G Really dark blue desktops (horizontally oriented) with big vent looking D things across the left 2/3 or so of the front? Probably DS10 systemsG (or the old AlphaStation XP900 designation - 466MHz DS10 in workstationmI configuration that comes with the lesser workstation license package; thegL newer workstation configuration, at 600+ MHz, is just called an AlphaStationG DS10 instead of an AlphaServer DS10 for the server configuration). Theys( are quite nice (I'm typing this on one).  G In the US, when new these run about $3,500 for the raw hardware with nopF OS or options ("linux ready" configuration), or somewhere around $7000D for a useable configuration running VMS with the workstation licenseH package. (As far as options go, you're probably significantly better offG getting 3rd party memory, whcih tends to cost half what Compaq charges.0F Speaking of memory, the supposedly "industry standard" memory they use8 isn't really - it is 200 pin, which is pretty uncommon.)  I As far as I know, this (in the "600", which is really some strange number'G around 616, MHz version) is the slowest Alpha system Compaq still sells 1 so in comparison to any of the others it is slow.t   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:14:52 +0100t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>u@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?) Message-ID: <3C49B79C.285E9FB3@gtech.com>    Herb Asher wrote:GE > Well I am an out of work vms/unix operator in the UK, since I enjoylH > messing with systems and things at home, ie linux box, home network onH > windows etc, I was wondering is it possible to build a vms box at homeE > for a home project? I only have 2 years exp. working with vms as angC > operator and maybe a project like this would help me stay in "vmsn: > mode" like I can with unix, ie shell accounts and linux. > E > Any tips, info, websites, possible hardware specs, os possibilitiesw# > etc would be greatly appreciated..  > Unless you really like playing with the hardware stuff, then I6 recommend buying an used Alpha from www.islandco.com !   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2002 05:55:02 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201190555.b298063@posting.google.com>  = What makes IBM profitable?  It is not just software services. B It is the hardware!  When you provide a superior hardware platformA (power) that can run software that is secure, can scale well, andc? run 24x7, then software services soar ... Capellas is doing theM@ opposite, he is giving away the industries best hardware (alpha)D to a competitor and thinks software services will rake in the dough,B except, because your competitors are all selling the same hardware@ platform, you have just entered the same low dollar, high volumeA market that pc's are in right now!  It's the hardware that drives-A software and services dummy!  Now power is not superior to alpha,,@ but it will be to itanium ... after ev7 moves aside for itanium,> IBM will take over.  IBM has got out of the pc business.  TheyE know the future is the high end and server consolidation (mainframes)iB are the future.  Now either Capellas and the whole board at Compaq= are total idiots or they actually work secretly for intel andn9 microsoft.  Which is it?  I tend to believe the later ...e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:27:26 GMTr" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: Change quorum disk question2 Message-ID: <inf28.7247$E82.20632@typhoon.bart.nl>  G In a three node cluster where all nodes have VOTES set to 1 there is noD need'62 for a quorum disk to survive the loss of one node.4 A quorum disk is useful in the following situations:I - in a two-node cluster, provided that the quorum disk is visible to bothi nodes;:   AFAIK that was the original reason for a "quorum device"J - in a multi node cluster where you always want to have one group of nodesK   avoid hanging in a cluster transition state. Usually there are other waysc of doing   that.hK IIRC  quorum disk votes are not taken into the computation as long as theree	 is quorum  delivered by system votes.   Hans  F Robert DiRosario <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote in message' news:3C483E22.34235FB0@gsfc.nasa.gov...n >M >a > Hans Vlems wrote:e >p. > > P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) wrote:A > > >Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote in messagem) news:<3C4773C9.E4851B5E@starpower.net>...c > > >>K > > >> The system disk is the quorum disk, and I see now that I should have F > > >> changed that before I added the second system.  How do I changeH > > >> that now?  Can I copy the quorum.dat file to the new quorum disk,H > > >> take one node down, edit modparms.dat and run autogen on the nodeA > > >> that's up, take it down and do the same on the other node?b > > >> > > >eI > > >I'm not sure QUORUM.DAT contains any data that needs to be preservedcF > > >between reboots so I don't think you need to worry about making a > > >copy of it... > > >>A > > > 00010002 454C4946 20204D55 524F5551 QUORUM  FILE.... 000000_A > > > 00A0831A 2A8798BD 00A08319 06E9CA08 ........*.... 000010_A > > > 00A0831A 09C50480 00A0831A 2B298FD8 .)+........... 000020tA > > > 04010000 00000404 00030002 00010002 ................ 000030 A > > > 00000000 00000000 3DA38CAA 00000000 .....=........ 000040  > > >_L > > >Simply shut down one computer (disk watcher), modify your MODPARAMS.DATJ > > >on the other (disk watcher), autogen, and reboot. Boot the other then do > > >the same thing. > > >AI > > >The cute thing about this is the first time you mount the new quorum-H > > >disk you will notice it will automagically get a QUORUM.DAT created" > > >on it right before your eyes. > > >sF > > >Make sure you mount the (new non system disk) QUORUM disk on both? > > >nodes (disk watchers) on startup when all done - this is ac > > >requirement. G > > You are quite right but OTOH it is possible to define a quorum diskn@ > > on a node that has no direct connection to that quorum disk.F > > In fact in an NI cluster you can have two nodes, each with votes=1H > > and each have its own quorum disk (i.e. two different quorum disks).G > > I know of a heavily used NI cluster that operated like that for two  yearseF > > before we found out that it was not only unsupported but also very	 dangerous_: > > because of possible disk corruption. Don't try this at= > > home, but it just shows how flexible a VAXcluster can be.o > >A > > Hans > >W > > http://www.zfree.co.nz > K > I have one more system to add to the cluster that will have direct accesso  to the system disk, a 4000/105A.L > After I add that system this weekend I don't think the quorum disk will be useful.  With or without aI > quorum disk it looks like I need to have two of the three systems up to ! have a quorum, unless there is ant: > undocumented method of giving the quorum disk two votes. >g > Robert >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:38:05 GMTo" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: Change quorum disk question2 Message-ID: <hxf28.7249$E82.20570@typhoon.bart.nl>   The same on VAX/VMS V7.2:_   $ sh sys/noproc_I OpenVMS V7.2  on node CHLOOR  19-JAN-2002 15:37:23.48  Uptime  2 20:36:459 $ mc sysgen help     Information available:  K   AUTOCONFIGURE         CONFIGURE  CONNECT    CREATE     DEINSTALL  DISABLE-H   ENABLE     INSTALL    LOAD       RELOAD     SET        SHARE      SHOW>   SYSGEN     Sys_Parameters        TERMINAL   USE        WRITE   Topic?   Hans  + John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in messagep0 news:1020118155757.16186A-100000@Ives.egh.com..." > On 18 Jan 2002, Rob Young wrote: >oB > > In article <3C4868C0.E7C7FA3D@gsfc.nasa.gov>, Robert DiRosario, <robert.j.dirosario.1@gsfc.nasa.gov> writes: > > >n > > >  > > > Rob Young wrote: > > >A > >  > > >>! > > >> <NODE>$ mcr sysgen show qd E > > >> Parameter Name           Current    Default     Min.      Max.  Unit > > >> Dynamic > >LH  --------------           -------    -------    -------   -------   ---- > > >> -------H > > >> QDSKVOTES                       1          1         0        127 Votes. > > >>I > > >>         Highly recommend you study up.  Go to http://www.deja.com/mH > > >>         and read the back and forth regarding this issue from 4-8 monthsK > > >>         ago.  Search advanced search, comp.os.vms  for clews quorom,2I > > >>         you should get some relevant hits.  Also, check the onlinen docs > > >>         of course.s > > >>* > > >>                                 Rob > > >e> > > > From the on line manuals at the Compaq OpenVMS web site: > > >nG > > > "A cluster system manager can designate a disk a quorum disk. The , quorum disk acts as a virtual cluster memberB > > > whose purpose is to add one vote to the total cluster votes" > > >o > >hD > > Ouch, they need to change the docs.  Good find!  That should sayA > > "whose purpose is to add QDSKVOTES (typically set to 1, checkp/ > > SYSGEN setting) to the total cluster votes"o > > 6 > > <NODE>$ mcr sysgen help param qdskvotes  ! VMS 7.1 > >  > > Parameters > >i > >   QDSKVOTES  > >wJ > >        QDSKVOTES specifies the number of votes contributed by a quorum > >        disk in a cluster.] > >e > > ---d > >aC > > And oh by the way, why the heck did that go away in more recentb > > versions of VMS? > >e > >iD > > OpenVMS V7.3  on node SPANKY 18-JAN-2002 14:28:40.48  Uptime  30 00:15:57 > >o. > > <SPANKY>$ mcr sysgen help param  qdskvotes0 > >   Sorry, no documentation on PARAM QDSKVOTES > >  > >s' > >   Additional information available:p > >tF > >   AUTOCONFIGURE         CONFIGURE  CONNECT    CREATE     DEINSTALL DISABLEeL > >   ENABLE     INSTALL    LOAD       RELOAD     SET        SHARE      SHOWB > >   SYSGEN     Sys_Parameters        TERMINAL   USE        WRITE > > 
 > > Topic? > >e >s0 > <SPANKY>$ mcr sysgen help sys_param  qdskvotes > % > Works on VAX 7.3, Alpha 7.2-1, 7.3.  >e> > I vaguely remember this from a long time ago as one of thoseB > minor, pointless VAX<>Alpha differences, but maybe it was one of@ > those minor, pointless SYSGEN<>SYSMAN differences.  Anyway, in= > V7.3 at least (I don't have a V7.2 VAX system anywhere), it $ > has converged on "Sys_parameters". >"= > In SYSGEN, there never has been a "parameters" command, and.< > HELP PARAM gave you information about specific parameters. >tB > In SYSMAN, there *is* a parameters command, and HELP PARAM tells= > you how to use it (very sketchily at the top level.  If youtC > have forgotten that SYSMAN lets you set SYSGEN parameters, you'llE? > have to dig down some into HELP PARAMETERS before you realize5; > that's what is going on here.)  In SYSMAN, to get help onh< > individual parameters, you need to type HELP SYS_PARAM.  I: > guess they decided to make SYSMAN and SYSGEN compatible.> > Maybe it is a common help source now.  There used to be some > differences. > L > > > After I get the 4000/105 up tonight I'll add one of my VAX Stations to the'I > > > cluster.  Then I can read the VMS documentation CD, which I hope ist betterL > > > than the on line cluster manuals.  The other system management manuals on theI > > > Compaq OpenVMS web site are fine, it's just the cluster manual thato has 
 > > > errors.d > >t@ > > They should be one in the same... I believe you found a rare > > glitch.b > > E > > But let me caution you... adjusting quorom can be a twisty littlemH > > affair.  Make sure you understand it, IMHO , before proceeding.  ButB > > if you are hacking/playing around... no harm , no foul, right? > >  > > Robf >b > --
 > John Santosu > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 >_   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:44:59 +0100s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> * Subject: Re: Copying a file in C++, again.) Message-ID: <3C49A28B.76B665EF@gtech.com>    Eric Milkie wrote:L > Don't use the BACKUP api because BACKUP takes too many system resources to. > be efficient and bogs the whole system down.  D I seriusoly doubt that there are any way to copy files that has been3 as highly optimized as BACKUP. For obvious reasons.h  M > Don't use CONV$'s because they've been deprecated by Compaq, aren't thread-bJ > safe, and Compaq says they won't touch the code because it's too old and > scary. :(I   Never heard about that.l  ; Do you have anything in writing or is it just traditionallye. FUD'ing of VMS by Solaris and Windows people ?   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:27:00 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)r% Subject: Re: Dec2000 and Decserver 90p0 Message-ID: <00A0844B.873EA8DE@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <e8628.6506$OS5.507873@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Jimbond" <jimbond@earthlink.net> writes:= >I'm trying to setup a DEC200AXP with a Decserver90 attached.h >The server has 90L+ cards. M >What I need is a list in order of installation of the software I need to gets >this thingeJ >up and running. Any help, advise, direction or redicule will be helpfull. >e >u  I An operating system that support LAT on the DEC2000AXP.  I'd suggest VMS.mI The DECserver 90L+ has firmware which supports LAT.  It's not like any ofCI the other terminal servers in the DECserver lineup; it has a very strangeo$ menu driven configuration interface.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             eJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesu   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:22:24 GMTp- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> * Subject: Re: DFWCUG Next Meeting, Jan 22ndD Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0201190419570.16306-100000@world.std.com>  5 On 16 Jan 2002, Alan Bruns, Allied Electronics wrote:h  O > The Dallas/Fort Worth Compaq User Group returns to a monthly meeting schedulee > starting this month. >lO > The next meeting will be Tuesday, January 22nd, at 6:00PM. The presenter wille, > be Steve Smiley; the topic, "War Driving".  E Smiley? I know this Smiley. This is the Smiley who tried to wrest thee? fabled Alpha EV7 chip from my hands at the last DFWCUG meeting._  I Unfortunately I will be unable to attend this meeting as I have ImportantsJ Hacking Business in Brussels on the afternoon of the 21st and consequently@ will not be back in the USA in time for the DFWCUG get-together.   Cedric Zoole Notorious Belgian Hacker   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:53:36 +0100t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>n2 Subject: Re: Doesn't anyone here have VMS support?) Message-ID: <3C49A490.FEC4BF86@gtech.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:-D > I'm just curious with all the posts on this board seeking help forA > VMS questions or problems from people who work for companies ori@ > institutions of higher learning ... do you have a VMS softwareD > support contract and do you ever use it?  Bronze level support canK > be bought for roughly $700/year compared to $1700/year for NT support ...g > what a bargain!o  4 Some have, but find is faster to get an answer here.  @ Others do not have - for various reasons: they may be hobbyists,B the cost may have been cut out of the budget by the bean counters.  6 Note that the precentage af VMS systems on service are> probably still way higher than the percentage of WinNT/Win2000 servers on service.A   Arne   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:51:08 +0000 (UTC)t9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>m! Subject: emacs21 and ast troublesy- Message-ID: <a2bq3s$nla$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>r  ' Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:   ; : : : : "Distribution" is at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/emacs.  * Now at emacs211_1.bck.gz. (Now almost 40M)  # I am moving stuff over to emacs 21.w   It works a little while.8 (Start it with mcr []temacs_d -l loadup --debug-init -q)  ) Then the following happens in sys$cantim:m  8 SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT, AST fault, SP=00000000, param=00000000,I PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000, target PC=FFFFFFFF80A50B44, PS=0000001BzB break on unhandled exception preceding SHARE$DECC$SHR_CODE0+813892   Anyone who can help?   Regards, Roar Throns   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:09:54 +0100r/ From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@bluewin.delete.ch>nY Subject: Re: Evidence of external help required for a VMS reboot - was: 17  years and stii4 Message-ID: <VA.0000051d.3b73dc83@bluewin.delete.ch>  E In article <3C4460D7.68D9CB7F@blueyonder.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn wrote:e > Paul Sture wrote:u [snip] > P > > Another Compaq customer here told me that this style of startup was taken toK > > fresh heights at his company, with C programs used to generate the DCL.s > V > well, if the input to the C program was a high level description of the requirements] > then at least this approach would reduce errors due to typos when editing systartup_vms.com R > (of course, I wouldn't suggest anyone ever made a typo in systartup_vms.com:-)). > G Point taken, but in the context of going into an unknown site, I really I don't like this. Do they even have a C compiler on site? If so, where areCJ the sources? You walk in confident of your ability with DCL and all things7 to do with startup, but you may not be a whiz with C...  ___0
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:35:05 +0100d1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>s> Subject: Re: Ford picks Alpha, beats pant off of Sun, HP, IBM!5 Message-ID: <3C492FB9.E3BD41EE@swissonline.delete.ch>i   Jack Patteeuw wrote: > N > Not sure why but Compaq has been pretty quiet about other automotive wins in > the past year. >  > >o& > > Alpha wins big again ... as usual! > >t   A couple of thoughts ...  F - some companies seem to be very happy to say that have bought unix orF NT systems but others - where IT security is a bigger concern ? - tendH to keep very quiet about their purchases.  I guess the relative scarcityH of buyer endorsements is an unfortunate by-product of being very secure.  ? - Compaq's marketing is dominated by the Windows "sub-company".pH ...Do they need to advertise in a highly competitive environment ?  Yes.A ...Has it done them much good for the last 2 years ?  Not really,lH they've saved money by reducing losses but they are still making losses.F ...Has it taken funding away from advertising the high-end ?  probably Yes      John McLeanf   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 07:14:18 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)wD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!' Message-ID: <a2b6ca$27s$1@joe.rice.edu>o  ) Bob Ceculski (bob@instantwhip.com) wrote:aF : if you had to recommend unix over vms, would you really not consider9 : alpha tru64 after reading this that is on the enquirer?i :t Not after this announcement...  9    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2100182,00.htmla8    ZDNet |UK| - News - Story - HP brings Unixes together  "    15:29 Friday 30th November 2001    Martin Veitch, IT Week,H    The HP-UX system will form the bulk of the post-merger company's Unix    server offering  H   "Hewlett-Packard's HP-UX is to continue to form the bulk of the firm'sH    Unix offering after the acquisition of Compaq is completed next year.A    This will mean upheaval for firms using Compaq's Tru64 Unix assI    elements of Tru64 are added to HP-UX and, as previously announced, thee+    AlphaServer family is slowly phased out.a    	    [snip]   F    "Integrating HP-UX with Tru64 gives us a strong market share," saidE    Rich Marcello, vice president and general manager of Compaq's HighnH    Performance Systems unit. "Tru64 clustering technology will be mergedF    on top of HP-UX. You will be running on industry-standard platformsC    and every ISV (independent software vendor) will want to come toe    that," he added.q  D    Marcello said that as well as the TruClusters technology, Tru64'sE    support for Internet Protocol version 6.0 (IPv6) and advanced filew2    system capabilities will be grafted onto HP-UX.  H    Third-party software support is critical, argued Marcello. "The thingI    we want to guarantee is a large ISV portfolio so we're (combining) therD    second most popular Unix (HP-UX) and the fourth most popular Unix    (Tru64)," he commented..."a  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:49:35 +0000k, From: hmv@port.ac.uk (Mike Meredith at home): Subject: Re: historical evidence of what went wrong at DEC$ Message-ID: <vvib2a.311.ln@luciferF>  2 In article <a201ja$2f9c$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,+ 	peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) writes:aN > In article <0Dw08.146$na5.13643@news.xtra.co.nz>, AG <ang@xtra.co.nz> wrote:7 >>"Peter da Silva" <peter@taronga.com> wrote in messaged. >>news:a1t5ve$10jq$1@citadel.in.taronga.com...L >>> I suspect that most people never notice whether their file system treatsH >>> "PETER" and "peter" as different files, and couldn't tell you if you >>asked. > L >>Now, that's getting totally ridiculous. Try telling that to your users whoF >>have just typed in "peter" and come running to you complaining aboutH >>the so and so system that, for some inscrutable reason, refuses to let; >>them access the same "Peter" file they have just created.. > O > In over 20 years as a programmer, system administrator, tech support guy, and N > just general "the guy you run to when things don't work" I have never to theL > best of my recall had anyone come running to me with that kind of problem.M > Given some of the things I've had to explain to people, that's really quitet
 > amazing.  ; The only time I've had a similar problem is when users wereu> saving web pages on a W95 machine to a NetWare volume that was> NFS mounted from a Unix box. I can't remember exactly what was2 happening but the case was different over the web.  ? I turned on Apache's spell checking module to keep the sound ofr my phone down to a dull roar.   O > I *have* had a lot of people complaining that they can't access the web pagesrO > they just uploaded with an "htm" extension because they typed "html" in theirnK > browser. Or vice-versa. Plus "tif" versus "tiff" and "jpg" versus "jpeg".h   See above :) -- dE No surgery is necessary on my email address, but spammers may require 8 surgery to remove parts of my address from their rectum.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:37:47 GMT_- From: Terry C Shannon <shannon@world.std.com>tK Subject: Re: Incredibly idiocy in CNN headline financial analysis of Compaq D Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.30.0201190435060.16306-100000@world.std.com>  & On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Alan Greig wrote:  D > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:19:52 +0100, "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> > wrote: >w > >dN > >Rather like Rdb at Oracle, which was apparently a stellar performer, a fact" > >hidden an unnoticed apparently. >hG > Once again we can either believe that DEC management were incompetentdD > and didn't notice its value or we can assume that the decision hadG > been taken that it was not strategic therefore it would go. No matter  > what cost...  I I believe DEC (and this of course goes back almost a decade now) realized4I the value of Rdb and sold it at a ridiculously low price... less than oneo year's worth of revenue.  H The rationale behind the sale was to stop being an Oracle competitor. AsH long as DEC had Rdb, ORCL viewed the firm as a potential rival and acted accordingly.  H Note the closeness of the CPQ/ORCL relationship... much more chummy than	 CPQ/MSFT.W     >G& > Of course Oracle did bump the price.  6 Hey, all that JP4 for Larry's MiG costs big bucks! ;-}   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 05:36 CSTg' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)t< Subject: Re: Is there any value in an Encompass membership ?- Message-ID: <19JAN200205360750@gerg.tamu.edu>o  K In article <a29m1f$165s$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu writes...>4 }In article <44Zc5mrwjCfu@eisner.encompasserve.org>,1 } koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:tm }|> In article <GcI08.468$rA.65847@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Andy Stoffel" <acs@fcgnetworks.net> writes:- }|> D }|> > No mention of any free membership options in the message......B }|> > (though the web site mentions an "Associate" membership that< }|> > doesn't cost any money but asks WAY too many questions/ }|> > that I don't think they need to know....)> }|> > L }|> > So..... if I sign up for the "Associate" membership...... will I stillE }|> > be eligible for the VMS Hobbyist licenses ? It's not mentioned  F }|> > anywhere that I can see..... & that's the only value, right now,B }|> > that I can see in an Encompass membership for an individual. }|> F }|>    Notes on Encompasserve took pains to point out that there is noK }|>    "Associate Membership".  There is "Associate" which is not a member.  } J }I read it different (but possibly wrong).  I thought it was a membership,H }but a non-voting one.  If it is not a membership then it won't apply toI }the Hobbyist program and I would expect that will bring down the curtaintH }on that.  I can't afford meaningless memberships for organizations thatH }actually apply to my job, I surely couldn't afford them for my hobbies. }  }billi  G The whole "member"/"not member" thing may depend on which definition oft "member" you are using.a  B I am not a lawyer, and I'm not certain that this is correct in all
 cases, but...o  E As I recall, and legally speaking, for an organization like this only.D members can vote, and *all* members can vote. If you can't vote thenE you are not a member in the legal sense. However, even if you are not E one in the legal sense, such organizations sometimes have one or more E options that normal people (i.e. not lawyers) might commonly refer to F as being a member of the organization - i.e. your name and address areE recorded, you are issued an ID number, you get some benefits (such aso% access to the hobbyist program), etc.h   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:46:15 GMT ( From: Howard Harte <hharte@hartetec.com>- Subject: Making bootable images from VMS diskn+ Message-ID: <3C494E76.4090403@hartetec.com>p   Hi,s  H 	I just got my Vax 4000/300 to boot VMS 6.2 from an RF35 DSSI drive.  I H have two other (empty) RF35's in the system, and for now, no tape drive.  H 	I am wondering how to make a disk image of the bootable drive onto the D other drives so in case I mess one up, I can boot from another.  Is ! there a way to do this under VMS?P  D 	Also, assuming a install a DSSI tape drive (ie, TF85) can I make a  bootable tape also?n  K 	One more question (perhaps this is the wrong group, but I'll ask anyway). nH   WHen I was messing around with doing 'set host' to the DSSI drive via E DUP, I saw that there was an option to emulate MSCP.  If I turn this E= option on, will I be able to use the DSSI drive under NetBSD?N   	Thanks, 	Howard    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:04:36 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>y1 Subject: Re: Making bootable images from VMS diskr' Message-ID: <3C496EE4.A0912804@aaa.com>e  : Backup (and other security features) are one of the really: strong parts of VMS, so of course there is a way to backup the system disk :-)s   Normaly you could just do a :a? (firstdisk: is teh current (booted) system disk and seconddisk:  is the target for the backup)l   $ MOUNT/FORAIGN seconddisk:u= $ BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/VERIFY firstdisk: seconddisk:r  8 That should produce a bootable copy of your system disk.  < Make sure you don't have anything else running on the system: during the copy.  You will get warnings tat some files are> "open for write", but the "/IGNORE=INTERLOCK" will try to copy= them anyway. These files will only be some log files, so it'sr? normaly no problem. Anyway, take a lock at what the VERIFY passj	 tels you.p  C And, of course, Compaq tels you to backup the system disk off-line.    Jan-Erik Sderholm.    Howard Harte wrote:i >  > Hi,C > P >         I just got my Vax 4000/300 to boot VMS 6.2 from an RF35 DSSI drive.  IJ > have two other (empty) RF35's in the system, and for now, no tape drive. > P >         I am wondering how to make a disk image of the bootable drive onto theE > other drives so in case I mess one up, I can boot from another.  Is # > there a way to do this under VMS?s >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:26:28 -0500i% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> 1 Subject: Re: Making bootable images from VMS diskr, Message-ID: <3C497402.D43DE9E6@videotron.ca>   Howard Harte wrote:0P >         I am wondering how to make a disk image of the bootable drive onto theE > other drives so in case I mess one up, I can boot from another.  Isr# > there a way to do this under VMS?5  + HELP BACKUP/IMAGE  to copy the whole drive.n  2 or you can take a look at SYS$UPDATE:VMSKITBLD.COM  b You can also just make the other drives bootable with standalone backup (SYS$UPDATE.STABACKIT.COM)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:57:11 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>1 Subject: Re: Making bootable images from VMS diske& Message-ID: <3C497B37.3050404@home.nl>   Howard Harte wrote:V   > Hi,  >sC >     I just got my Vax 4000/300 to boot VMS 6.2 from an RF35 DSSI hI > drive.  I have two other (empty) RF35's in the system, and for now, no e
 > tape drive.g >tI >     I am wondering how to make a disk image of the bootable drive onto  G > the other drives so in case I mess one up, I can boot from another.   ' > Is there a way to do this under VMS?     Easiest thing in the world:n     Mount <outputdisk> /foreignn& Backup /image <inputdisk> <outputdisk>   Readya  H (all assuming the input disk is already mounted, as it is when you boot  from it)   >: >:I >     Also, assuming a install a DSSI tape drive (ie, TF85) can I make a 3 > bootable tape also?   H There was at least, but that is so long ago, I forgot how to do it. Try  to get a VMS boot CD.    >e >nG >     One more question (perhaps this is the wrong group, but I'll ask mH > anyway).  WHen I was messing around with doing 'set host' to the DSSI G > drive via DUP, I saw that there was an option to emulate MSCP.  If I hI > turn this option on, will I be able to use the DSSI drive under NetBSD?d >t
 >     Thanks,G >     Howard >o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:05:04 GMTa' From: Stuart Fuller <stufuller@usa.net>o> Subject: Re: Need help with ANAL/ERROR output -- 2 disk errors0 Message-ID: <gm1c2a.fce.ln@dadsys1.fuller.local>   >  EXTENDED SENSE DATA >  -! >        EXTENDED SENSE  00060070 ! >                        0A000000r! >                        00000000<! >                        00000129R! >                            0000p7 >                                        UNIT ATTENTIONe; >                                        UNKNOWN ERROR TYPE   & The unit reset itself for some reason.  ! >        PORT STATUS     0000022CmB >                                        %SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, DEVICE	 > TIMEOUT   I And, the I/O pending to the drive timed out.  Probably normal, since the hC drive reset itself and forgot what it was doing prior to the reset.   J If this is a one-time event, I'd not worry about it.  If it continues, it  may be drive replacement time.           Stuy   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:13:14 +0100u= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e? Subject: Re: Oracle VMS Apache & Java versus Compaq CSWS & Java ) Message-ID: <3C49B73A.616FA061@gtech.com>-   Dirk Munk wrote:I > I've been studying the Oracle 9i installation manual for VMS today, andhD > noticed that they seem to have their own version of the Apache web5 > server for VMS, and also their own version of Java.r > H > I'm puzzled by this. We all want Oracle to improve their work for VMS,G > and here we see Compaq creating the Compaq Secure Web Server for VMS,mG > and Oracle also producing a version of Apache for VMS. The same thingh% > seems to apply (partly ?) for Java.- > H > Why on earth isn't is possible that Compaq and Oracle work together onF > this, and give us one version of this software ? Or that Oracle justH > refers to Compaq for the webserver and Java ? After all, Oracle doen't; > supply us with compilers either, so why Apache and Java ?d  , This is just how everybody else is doing it.  ; Every fucking software package now a days come with its own<+ copy of Apache and its own copy of JRE/JDK.E  E I just checked my laptop: 3 copies of Apache and 6 copies of JRE/JDK.t  D I think the reasoning behind it is testing/verification. If you ship@ a version of your software with a specific version of Apache andB a specific version of JRE/JDK, then you know that it works. If youG tell people to download, then they download the latest version, installyA it differently etc.etc. and suddenly your software does not work.p  ( But the harddisk manufacturers love it !   :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:00:17 +0100e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a> Subject: Re: OT: Sun To Drop/Delay Intel Support For Solaris 9) Message-ID: <3C49A621.A453075B@gtech.com>o   Bob Koehler wrote:J >    Sigh.  Solaris on Intel is one of the reasons Java generates portableH >    byte code.  The designers didn't want to have to recompile for both7 >    bigendian SPARC and little endian Intel platforms.    It may have been the reason.  < But it do seems (based on release schedules) as if SUN todayE realizes that the primary Java development platform is Windows/Intel.:   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:03:03 +01001= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>u1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof ) Message-ID: <3C49B4D7.6E9CF27B@gtech.com>    Bob Ceculski wrote:a] > Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message news:<3C459EEC.C2BCBAA6@gtech.com>...t3 > > I thougth Purveyor was a discontinued product !  > >rG > > Yoy are not going to convince many of the merit of VMS by referringr > > to a discintinued product.  F > just because support has stopped doesn't mean it is not superior ...  1 It may be superior as a piece of engineering art.e  6 Seen from a software solutions perspective it is dead.  F > what about failover!  only tcpware allows this ... read it again ...  ? HTTP is a stateless protocol. Which means that any TCP/IP stack ? capable of assigning one IP address to the cluster can do this.   B And the point is worthless, because any internet/intranet solution> made today has this functionality. It is just implemented with= a content switch instead of as a feature of the TCP/IP stack.G  I > > PS: And any web-servers that uses either multiple threads or multiple7< > >     processes supports load-sharing over multiple CPU's.  % This was referring to your statement:m  A #supports load sharing across the multiple CPUs of an SMP system a  D which even though it is true is something almost all web-servers canF do (have there ever been a single-process & single-threaded web-server ?).y   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:05:41 +0100h= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>m1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofe) Message-ID: <3C49B575.37BA876B@gtech.com>h   Bob Ceculski wrote: F > wrong again!  We compile and run java scripts embedded in dcl coms &E > called from dcl coms using purveyor and also call perl scripts frome	 > dcl ...T  ; Any web-server that supports DCL can run scripts written inA' any language (including java and Perl).   < But performance usually sucks with that approach. Activating; the JVM or the Perl interpreter for each script call is notd! a solution for high-volume stuff.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:48:12 -0600 , From: "Art Beane" <art.beane@mindspring.com>+ Subject: RE: Rise and Fall of the Magaloids 5 Message-ID: <000001c1a119$d970fec0$c27ba8c0@ArtBeane>d  D >> Charlie Matco made his debut under the Terry Shannon pseudonym in
 early 1983  G Wow! Voices from the past. That's the year I met C Matco and T Shannon! B I might even have photographic proof hidden around here somewhere.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:32:40 -0500s2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com> Subject: Re: RMS Journaling-* Message-ID: <3C499198.1458F232@oracle.com>  . long ago and far away I worked on a large oltp, system that used several rms files.  we used/ rmu after-image journaling to protect the data.91 but exactly what problem are you trying to solve?h0 there will be additional I/O during writes since/ you have to write to both the data file and ther/ journal file (ai, bi or ru journals all requirea- this).  what kind of journaling do you intendt0 to do?  for AI journaling, if you need something1 close to 100% uptime, check into the rmu_jnl_snapv. (or whatever it is called) tool on the openvms freeware CD as well.  
 george wrote:. > E > Can someone share their experience on how safe it is to turn on RMSa- > journaling for flat files? VMS ver 7.1-1h2.    -- l> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2002 03:42:57 -0800' From: spedraja@ono.com (Sergio Pedraja)i! Subject: Re: Searching one VAX/11a= Message-ID: <c2551c25.0201190342.3243cda6@posting.google.com>h   Hello: e  N > FWIW an appropriate analogy would be that I'd prefer to own and drive a 1966I > Shelby GT350 than a 2002 model Mustang. Likewise for personal hacking IeK > prefer my VAX 7xx than the admitedly faster, more energy efficient, newer  > Alpha based processor. >  > Good luck in your search!h >  > Lee Courtney  7 That's a perfect resume. Thank you, Lee, and Greetings.    Sergio   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:19:45 +0100a= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>. Subject: Re: xml and OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3C49AAB1.14416499@gtech.com>o   Rudolf Wingert wrote:oM > is XML useable under OpenVMS? If not, will we see this in the near furture?   = Since XML requires a file-system with text-files and somekindn= of programming language, then ofcourse XML is usuable on VMS.t  C Compaq has even made a kit with Xalan (DOM & SAX) and Xerces (XSLT)l available, so it becomes easy.  A Be sure to have plenty of memory availble when playing with XML !    Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jan 2002 05:43 CSTd' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)-> Subject: Re: [OT / Humor] Things not to do on a *nix system...- Message-ID: <19JAN200205433155@gerg.tamu.edu>c  1 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...aR }In article <3C485C79.38FF5910@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:I }> This is *not* meant to slam the *nix family of O/Ss.  I'm one of those:K }> freaks that can see a place for everything and uses Windows and Linux onRG }> the desktop.  But the "humor" of the situation below was too much to  }> pass up.a }> nD }> A friend who teaches at a local higher-education institution justI }> checked in on another list I'm subscribed to.  All their Solaris boxeniF }> are down this morning; details are sketchy, but apparently somebodyH }> suffered a case of the clevers and thought it would be interesting toJ }> see what all gets redirected to /dev/null on a *nix box, so he replacedK }> /dev/null with a file.  (Obviously, this would make him a system manglerd8 }> of some sort, to have the rights to even attempt it.) }> EB }> Shame he forgot to fix the file permissions on his new improvedD }> "/dev/null" so that common users could write to it, though... ;-) } ? }Doing the equivalent on VMS should be straightforward as well,r }given SYSNAM privilege.  2 Sure, but how many things would it actually break?  G I don't think very many things on VMS require a writeable NLA0: device.(D From the above, it looks like simply logging in requires a writeableD /dev/null on Solaris. (I can't imagine why - what is the login doingB that requires it to write, ar at least be able to write, something to nowhere?)   --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Jan 2002 07:21:28 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen).> Subject: Re: [OT / Humor] Things not to do on a *nix system...3 Message-ID: <XvQGafjh4vZ8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <19JAN200205433155@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: 3 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes...aT > }In article <3C485C79.38FF5910@rdrop.com>, Dean Woodward <deanw@rdrop.com> writes:  D > }> Shame he forgot to fix the file permissions on his new improvedF > }> "/dev/null" so that common users could write to it, though... ;-) > } A > }Doing the equivalent on VMS should be straightforward as well,t > }given SYSNAM privilege. > 4 > Sure, but how many things would it actually break? > I > I don't think very many things on VMS require a writeable NLA0: device..  G I received private mail from someone indicating that many things on VMSuI do break in such a situation.  To "protect my sources" I shall not reveal ? the name of the individual who (presumably) did the experiment.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:40:41 +0100n= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>aB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories) Message-ID: <3C49AF99.A0A8DB2E@gtech.com>r   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:4 > Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories?  D I would phrase it as "why were there a 8 level limit on directories"5 since current version does not have this restriction.i  ; A good guess would be that each level adds a small overheade> to accessing a file. It is nothing on an EV6 Alpha. But it mayB actually have been noticable on VAX 7xx's. I think VMS engineering- tried to protect people from bad performance.h   Arne   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.036 ************************