0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 24 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 45      Contents: Re: A position statement6 Re: Accessing VMS Index files on VMS Server and client6 Re: Accessing VMS Index files on VMS Server and client6 Re: Accessing VMS Index files on VMS Server and client+ ADVERTISE TO 12 MILLION PEOPLE DAILY....... * Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"* Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"* Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"* Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"* Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels" Re: Big MIME problems  Re: bkjfn is an English word?  Re: bkjfn is an English word?  Re: bkjfn is an English word? 7 Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?  Charon Prices ? = Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... C Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses P Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses     allcredi( Re: Configuring Dec net over serial port! Re: DCL "compiler"? (not checker) ! Re: DCL "compiler"? (not checker) ( RE: disk sharing between windows and VMS( Re: disk sharing between windows and VMS( Re: disk sharing between windows and VMS Re: DS20 license value error& Re: ethernet boot diskless VAX-11/730?; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! . Hewlett, Packard Step Up Merger Battle with HP2 Re: Hewlett, Packard Step Up Merger Battle with HP Re: hobbyist license Re: hobbyist license) Re: internals question: mode of execution I Re: laws (was: RE: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows!) P Re: laws (was: RE: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows!) window Re: Open VMS manual P Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English wordP Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English P Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English 6 Re: Problems with early ES40's & DS20's? (Joel Gallun): Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code> Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code> Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code> Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code> Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code> Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code Re: Q on the phone dial B Re: Q on the phone dial [was Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?]B Re: Q on the phone dial [was Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?] Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license  Re: Re hobbyist license ( Re: Samba frustrations on reboot... fix! Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight  Re: setting the record straight > SIN  Was: Younger recruits versus... was: The demise of compaq7 SKC/openvms.org IPF Consolidation Survey Results Posted 4 Re: Vegemite (was RE: Younger recruits blahblahblah) Re: Veritas Client for VMS$ Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?$ Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?$ RE: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?$ Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?$ Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?$ Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?$ Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The O Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of   compaq ) O Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of   compaq ) P Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of compaq ) co1 Re: [OffTheTopic] private Reflector for CU seeme? 7 [Q]: Problems with early ES40's & DS20's? (Joel Gallun) ; Re: [Q]: Problems with early ES40's & DS20's? (Joel Gallun)   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:28:54 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: A position statement A Message-ID: <W9E38.73696$TC1.5344402@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C4DC090.9D33CFE8@swissonline.delete.ch...    ...   H > Constantly hounding Compaq over a decision made almost 7 months ago is: > extremely unlikely to cause a reversal of that decision.  D It's considerably more likely to do so than any alternative you haveJ offered - especially if it *is* effective in affecting Compaq's income, asF some are suggesting, whether the result is BoD-mandated replacement ofI management, stock depression resulting in a take-over by a more competent > organization, or a death-bed conversion of current management.  L The 'hounding' is still merited and will continue, until such time as CompaqF takes significant steps to undo its multiple blunders.  This is calledH 'accountability', and the passage of time does not diminish it.  But youD should note (as I've pointed out so many times before) that the mostK *active* 'hounding' is usually a reaction to attempts by people like you to I excuse Compaq's actions (as always, without being willing to do so on the J basis of the actual evidence available):  keep your mouth shut, and you'llL avoid a lot of it, or engage in a discussion of the actual details if you're capable of doing so.   ...   C > Instead of being retro-active we need to be pro-active and try to . > prevent actions that are detrimental to VMS.  I My, how your concept of what constitutes being 'pro-active' seems to have L changed over time.  Once, you were pretty gung-ho about obtaining *improved*D treatment of VMS, not simply trying to prevent additional disasters.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:22:41 GMT ) From: rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) ? Subject: Re: Accessing VMS Index files on VMS Server and client 2 Message-ID: <3c4f6f31.2085474844@news.wcc.govt.nz>  E A while since I've played with NFS, but on the example below the File D ID is different. This would strongly indicate that you're not seeing
 the same file    Or is this a "feature" of NFS?      F On 23 Jan 2002 06:52:22 -0800, andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft) wrote:    >Hi, > B >I am running OpenVMS v7.2-1 with UCX v5.0a eco3. I am using a VMSG >system as an NFS server and mounting in from another VMS system acting G >as an NFS client. When I create an index file on the server everything  >works correctly, and I see :- >  >$ dir/full dirreg.dat >  >Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SARS]  > 3 >DIRREG.DAT;1                  File ID:  (7436,3,0) 2 >Size:           26/26         Owner:    [600,600]# >Created:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:48.86 ' >Revised:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:48.96 (1)  >Expires:   <None specified>  >Backup:    <No backup recorded> >Effective: <None specified> >Recording: <None specified>4 >File organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key >Shelved state:      Online ! >Caching attribute:  Writethrough F >File attributes:    Allocation: 26, Extend: 0, Maximum bucket size: 2= >                    Global buffer count: 0, No version limit 1 >Record format:      Fixed length 92 byte records 5 >Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  >RMS attributes:     None  >Journaling enabled: None D >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:RWED >Access Cntrl List:  None  >Client attributes:  None  >  >Total of 1 file, 26/26 blocks.  > : >If I now go to the client, and do the same thing I see :- >  >$ set def dnfs2:[sars]  >$ dir/full dirreg.dat >  >Directory DNFS2:[SARS]  > 4 >DIRREG.DAT;1                  File ID:  (33,2090,0)2 >Size:           26/26         Owner:    [DEFAULT]# >Created:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:48.86 ' >Revised:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:57.65 (1)  >Expires:   <None specified>  >Backup:    <No backup recorded> >Effective: <None specified> >Recording: <None specified> >File organization:  Indexed >Shelved state:      Online - >Caching attribute:  Unknown caching value: 0 F >File attributes:    Allocation: 26, Extend: 0, Maximum bucket size: 2= >                    Global buffer count: 0, No version limit 1 >Record format:      Fixed length 92 byte records 5 >Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  >RMS attributes:     None  >Journaling enabled: None D >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:RWED >Access Cntrl List:  None  >Client attributes:  None  >  >Total of 1 file, 26/26 blocks.  >$ > ? >For some reason this does not reflect the Prolog 3 using 1 key  >attributes. >  >Any ideas ? >  >Thanks  >Andrew    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:31:12 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ? Subject: Re: Accessing VMS Index files on VMS Server and client , Message-ID: <3C4F9C1E.D4B9C6FD@videotron.ca>   Rob Buxton wrote:  > G > A while since I've played with NFS, but on the example below the File F > ID is different. This would strongly indicate that you're not seeing > the same file  >   > Or is this a "feature" of NFS?  M This is a documented feature of NFS. The NFS client on VMS generates file-ids  on the fly.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 22:03:13 -08006 From: andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew Rycroft)? Subject: Re: Accessing VMS Index files on VMS Server and client = Message-ID: <58ba0101.0201232203.3e9c066b@posting.google.com>   c rob.buxton@wcc.govt.nz (Rob Buxton) wrote in message news:<3c4f6f31.2085474844@news.wcc.govt.nz>... G > A while since I've played with NFS, but on the example below the File F > ID is different. This would strongly indicate that you're not seeing > the same file  >   > Or is this a "feature" of NFS? >  >  > H > On 23 Jan 2002 06:52:22 -0800, andrew.rycroft@intrinsitech.com (Andrew > Rycroft) wrote:  >  > >Hi, > > D > >I am running OpenVMS v7.2-1 with UCX v5.0a eco3. I am using a VMSI > >system as an NFS server and mounting in from another VMS system acting I > >as an NFS client. When I create an index file on the server everything   > >works correctly, and I see :- > >  > >$ dir/full dirreg.dat > > ! > >Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SARS]  > > 5 > >DIRREG.DAT;1                  File ID:  (7436,3,0) 4 > >Size:           26/26         Owner:    [600,600]% > >Created:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:48.86 ) > >Revised:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:48.96 (1)  > >Expires:   <None specified>" > >Backup:    <No backup recorded> > >Effective: <None specified> > >Recording: <None specified>6 > >File organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key > >Shelved state:      Online # > >Caching attribute:  Writethrough H > >File attributes:    Allocation: 26, Extend: 0, Maximum bucket size: 2? > >                    Global buffer count: 0, No version limit 3 > >Record format:      Fixed length 92 byte records 7 > >Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  > >RMS attributes:     None  > >Journaling enabled: None F > >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:RWED > >Access Cntrl List:  None  > >Client attributes:  None  > > ! > >Total of 1 file, 26/26 blocks.  > > < > >If I now go to the client, and do the same thing I see :- > >  > >$ set def dnfs2:[sars]  > >$ dir/full dirreg.dat > >  > >Directory DNFS2:[SARS]  > > 6 > >DIRREG.DAT;1                  File ID:  (33,2090,0)4 > >Size:           26/26         Owner:    [DEFAULT]% > >Created:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:48.86 ) > >Revised:   22-JAN-2002 16:53:57.65 (1)  > >Expires:   <None specified>" > >Backup:    <No backup recorded> > >Effective: <None specified> > >Recording: <None specified> > >File organization:  Indexed > >Shelved state:      Online / > >Caching attribute:  Unknown caching value: 0 H > >File attributes:    Allocation: 26, Extend: 0, Maximum bucket size: 2? > >                    Global buffer count: 0, No version limit 3 > >Record format:      Fixed length 92 byte records 7 > >Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  > >RMS attributes:     None  > >Journaling enabled: None F > >File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RWED, World:RWED > >Access Cntrl List:  None  > >Client attributes:  None  > > ! > >Total of 1 file, 26/26 blocks.  > >$ > > A > >For some reason this does not reflect the Prolog 3 using 1 key  > >attributes. > >  > >Any ideas ? > > 	 > >Thanks 	 > >Andrew   D I never noticed the file id had changed, but it is the same file, soD this must be a feature of NFS. And to answer Michael's question, the& application bombs at this stage with a   $ set def dnfs2:[sars] $ open/read tmp dirreg.dat< %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS2:[SARS]DIRREG.DAT as input> -RMS-F-PLG, error detected in file's prolog (reconstruct file)  1 Note the file is empty, i.e. contains no records.   < BUT if I populate the file with some data on the server side everything works correctly.    Thanks for your response.  Andrew   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 23 Jan 02 18:09:04 EST ) From: IncreaseSalesToday@bigcashtoday.com 4 Subject: ADVERTISE TO 12 MILLION PEOPLE DAILY......." Message-ID: <5026000@MVB.SAIC.COM>   Dear info-vax@mvb.saic.com,        A                  Would you like to send an Email Advertisement to 9                    OVER 12,000,000 PEOPLE DAILY for FREE?                    ) Do you have a product or service to sell? ) Do you want an extra 100 orders per week?   G NOTE: (If you do not already have a product or service to sell, we can   supply you with one).   9 ========================================================= 5 1) Let's say you... Sell a $24.95 PRODUCT or SERVICE. ; 2) Let's say you... Broadcast Email to only 500,000 PEOPLE. @ 3) Let's say you... Receive JUST 1 ORDER for EVERY 2,500 EMAILS.  ; CALCULATION OF YOUR EARNINGS BASED ON THE ABOVE STATISTICS:   7 [Day 1]: $4,990  [Week 1]: $34,930  [Month 1]: $139,720   8 ========================================================G To find out more information, Do not respond by email. Instead, Please   visit our web site at:    ( http://www.bigcashtoday.com/package1.htm       List Removal Instructions:E We hope you enjoyed receiving this message. However, if you'd rather  J not receive future e-mails of this sort from Internet Specialists, send anD email to us at removalstoday2009@yahoo.com and type "remove" in the @ "subject" line and you will be removed from any future mailings.   We hope you have a great day!  Internet Specialists                    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:23:52 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> 3 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels" . Message-ID: <a2n5vi$1gf$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  ; "Fabio Cardoso" <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message : news:20020122153900.41359.qmail@web20209.mail.yahoo.com...	 Dear Sirs  >  >  >Is there any kind of kit to# >install "wheels" in an AlphaServer  >1000 ???? Like the Proliants. > : Build your own with some plywood and four planks? Form theB planks into a rectangle the same size on the outside as the Alpha,9 cut plywood to size, nail together, drill, fit 4 castors.   0 Paint it matt black, and you will hardly see it.   Cost? 10 dollars + time??   6 Genuine Compaq castors would probably cost a bit more.  < You'll probably find that you can buy generic castors to fit: on the bottom. That is, if they were made to take castors.  > Look for 3 or 4 holes in a rectangle[1] on the bottom near the= corners. The screw recesses will be threaded - probably M6 or  maybe M8 bolt size.   A Most computers (and other equipment) that I've seen with castors, ; the bolt spacing on the bottom is identical (or at least it ? appears identical). I think there must be some sort of standard @ sizing at work, based on the load the castors will handle, which: is in turn (usually) based on the diameter of the castors.  @ Note that there are 2 types of castors: one has nuts (or a screwB thread cut into the metal), the other doesn't. I guess you'll wantB the type without nuts: if you needed the type with nuts, you would@ have to put screws inside the machine just to put castors on theC outside. If you were Compaq, you would want to do it the other way. = Use castors that can be screwed on from the outside, and thenw= the poor person screwing them on has no need for ESD trainingE? or much in the way of skills, and can be hired for minimum wages (or less if outside US! :( ).s  9 This of course assumes they put castor holes in the case.b  F You could always drill holes and fit your own. But you'd need to emptyH the case first (metal particles inside your computer are a *bad* idea!).  C One good thing about building a wooden platform with castors is you A can then use it to move other heavy objects. Drill two 15mm holesCD in the plywood and 2/3 of the way through the planks below (avoidingG the castors!). Then get some 15mm copper pipe, bend in an appropriatelydG sized "U" and you have a mini trolley with removable handle. Of course,rG you then have to manoeuvre the Alpha off the "trolley" when you want toV use it for something else ;(   That's enough DIY for today...  ' >I have one of this "monsters" - almostr' >40 kg - in my home for hobby purposes.i >I didnt intalled the OS yet.o  
 Pretty hefty.a  I A friend of mine once claimed to have pushed an 11/750 up carpeted stairs G at a 30 degree angle, and there were two flights of stairs. But I don'te believe him ;)  ? He stripped all the guts out of the 11/750 and turned it into alE wardrobe in the end... 11 amps continuous current is a bit expensive.cH Big problem would have been the 27 amps needed at startup. It would haveF needed its own dedicated electrical circuit. And the electricity bills would be huge...   -Malcolm  I [1] Yes, I know a rectangle has four corners. OK then, if there are three : screws, there'll be right-angled triangles at the edges...   >  >Regards >o >FCs   >===== >==========================l >Fbio dos Santos Cardosol >OpenVMS System ManagerG >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brF >==========================t >O3 >__________________________________________________e >Do You Yahoo!?DG No, but I bawl in frustration at your inane pop-up Geocities adverts...W  ' >Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! " >http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:46:43 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>3 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"p0 Message-ID: <3C4F2048.74A38DF9@blueyonder.co.uk>   Malcolm wrote:K > A friend of mine once claimed to have pushed an 11/750 up carpeted stairssI > at a 30 degree angle, and there were two flights of stairs. But I don'ty > believe him ;) > M I knew someone who rescued a 750 and kept it for some time in his first floor - bedsit. That must have involved stairs also.    J The 1000A's I have been hoping to get for hobbyist use have been nabbed byJ some people who really should have spare cash to buy a ds10 or two insteadM of recycling old h/w :-(. Ah well, the electricity bill is large enough as it  is.e    -- q Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  o  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of a! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:32:05 -0000 3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>e3 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"s. Message-ID: <a2ndg0$r6h$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>  A "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in messagen* news:3C4F2048.74A38DF9@blueyonder.co.uk... >v >u > Malcolm wrote:F > > A friend of mine once claimed to have pushed an 11/750 up carpeted stairsK > > at a 30 degree angle, and there were two flights of stairs. But I don'tr > > believe him ;) > >eI > I knew someone who rescued a 750 and kept it for some time in his firstn floore. > bedsit. That must have involved stairs also. >e1 Did he move it *on his own*, as my friend claims?   L > The 1000A's I have been hoping to get for hobbyist use have been nabbed byL > some people who really should have spare cash to buy a ds10 or two insteadL > of recycling old h/w :-(. Ah well, the electricity bill is large enough as it > is.-  K I could probably acquire an 8600, but with the cost of three-phase power asdF it is, and the fact I live up 4 flights of stair and don't have a very# strong floor... not a good idea! ;)a  L I do remember reading a "war story" once about a guy who had a PDP-10 in hisC apartment in America, with various bits in the kitchen and hallway.yG Apparently his apartment had all three phases in different parts of the J building (which, electrically, sounds a bit dangerous to me!). To start upJ the machine he would open all his windows, get two friends round, and thenG they would say "three.. two.. one..go" and plug three normal plugs intot8 different parts of the building to get all three phases!  L http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=J.Newman.218.734074298%40icarus.curtin. edu.au5 refers to it, but I haven't found the story itself...    -Malcolm   >  > -- > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukq >aD > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of# > my employers or service provider.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:04:04 -0000y3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>u3 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels" . Message-ID: <a2nfc0$7cf$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message( news:a2ndg0$r6h$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... [...]  >i >oL http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=J.Newman.218.734074298%40icarus.curtin. > edu.au7 > refers to it, but I haven't found the story itself...e >d  0 Found it, eventually, along with all the others.  < http://www.dorje.com:8080/netstuff/folklore/old.iron.at.home  
 > -Malcolm >  > >n > > --! > > Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukh > >uF > > Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of% > > my employers or service provider.- >- >-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:34:17 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>3 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 1000 - Installing "wheels"30 Message-ID: <3C4F7FD1.35C122A1@blueyonder.co.uk>   Malcolm wrote: > @ > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message* > news:a2ndg0$r6h$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > [...]f > >  > >iN > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=J.Newman.218.734074298%40icarus.curtin.
 > > edu.au9 > > refers to it, but I haven't found the story itself...p > >  > 2 > Found it, eventually, along with all the others. > > > http://www.dorje.com:8080/netstuff/folklore/old.iron.at.home  4 ah yes, they guy I was thinking about is there, too.  A I think my house might collapse with a 750 on the upper floor:-).d   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.]   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:11:57 +0100  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: Big MIME problems$ Message-ID: <3C4F271D.50201@home.nl>   Jan-Erik, Chris,  G Thanks for your replies. The problem has been acknowledged as a bug by e  Compaq, and I have a workaround.  G Despite this problem, I  must say MIME works well in batch mode if you u$ know how to get it do what you want.C I checked mpack and munpack, but it seems that mpack can only pack nI binary files (512 byte blocks). I can't use that in this case, because a  & letter is not a binary file of course.H Furthermore we use SFF to send the mail message. The reason for this is E that this way we have total control over the headers of the message.  0 Mime doesn't send the message, it just packs it.  F It seems there is even a way to directly send a attachment with mail, C using Unix style SMTP commands. (this applies to TCPIP V5.x afaik).E   Regards,   Dirk   Chris Sharman wrote:  M >"Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3C4DF016.6080206@home.nl...6 >:G >>We have discovered a big problem with MIME, and that is applicable tof/ >>MIME V1.4 (VMS 7.2-1 and MIME V1.5 (VMS 7.3).e >>B >>MIME is used in a commandfile to send bulk e-mail to customers.. >> > M >I haven't tried mime for a while, but I never got anywhere with it in batch.FJ >We use munpack to unpack stuff, and simple home grown stuff to pack stuff >up. >  >Chris >  >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:43:10 -0000e3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> & Subject: Re: bkjfn is an English word?- Message-ID: <a2n73p$8r$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>S  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:fW75ykHY6RYt@eisner.encompasserve.org...T >lI >    "bkjfn"  OK, so what is this, and how did it get into the 50000 wordt1 >    dictionary that set password checks against?e >?  H It comes from TOPS-20, according to a Google search (the BKJFN% JSYS, if that means anything.   I I see it also has POPJ, MOVEI, JFCL, HRROI, SYSTAT, TECO (but no EMACS ;)l and probably others.  K I thought someone might have added them to EISNER, but they're on my system  too.  E So, some of the PDP-10 and TOPS-[10,20] operating system made it intoi VMS after all ;]  	 -Malcolm.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:51:00 -0000t3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk>T& Subject: Re: bkjfn is an English word?. Message-ID: <a2n7ie$2e1$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>  @ "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de> wrote in message* news:a2mnjq$ha0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de...5 > In article <fW75ykHY6RYt@eisner.encompasserve.org>,-/ koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:c > > J > >   "bkjfn"  OK, so what is this, and how did it get into the 50000 word2 > >   dictionary that set password checks against? > H > Are you sure that it is in this dictionary? It might be that it is the password= > of someone else and that it is not allowed for that reason. @ It is in the dictionary. You're thinking of the password historyG (SYS$SYSTEM:VMS$PASSWORD_HISTORY.DATA). He's talking about the passwordH
 dictionaryI (SYS$LIBRARY:VMS$PASSWORD_DICTIONARY.DATA) which is the system dictionarye (as in= "Password found in system dictionary; please choose another".a  I What I _do_ find hard to believe is that the password dictionary does notr containtI ascending and descending letter sequences. So, as long as it isn't in theSI password _history_, you can set passwords like ABCDEFG... This could be a  big problem if you turned password history off!  F Why list obscure PDP-10 opcodes, yet allow easily-guessable passwords?G Yes, I know you can control this by using LGI$ callouts to set a customrK password policy. But that's no good if your company's policies prohibit youF from doing so...  G I wrote a DCL program to generate them and added them to the dictionaryg usingu/ the procedure in the System Manager's Manual ;)t  	 -Malcolm.n   > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:50:02 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> & Subject: Re: bkjfn is an English word?' Message-ID: <3C4F776D.4FBA5B80@fsi.net>E   Malcolm wrote: > < > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:fW75ykHY6RYt@eisner.encompasserve.org...: > >NK > >    "bkjfn"  OK, so what is this, and how did it get into the 50000 wordf3 > >    dictionary that set password checks against?e > >  > J > It comes from TOPS-20, according to a Google search (the BKJFN% JSYS, if > that > means anything.0 > K > I see it also has POPJ, MOVEI, JFCL, HRROI, SYSTAT, TECO (but no EMACS ;)o > and probably others. > M > I thought someone might have added them to EISNER, but they're on my systemi > too. > G > So, some of the PDP-10 and TOPS-[10,20] operating system made it intot > VMS after all ;]  C It's an indexed file. You can add (or delete!) anything you want...    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 19:07:53 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)b@ Subject: Re: building a vms box as a project.. is this possible?= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0201231907.62b33e8f@posting.google.com>   ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E38A2.811C6DFB@fsi.net>...  DG > As applied, since (in the states at least) you can have more than oneuD > "active" wire in a conduit, it's generally the darker color that'sA > "hot", which also allows for color blindness to a large degree.g  C We have black neutral, white, red, and blue, active on 415V 3 phase-= cables which would be exactly the reverse. Allowing for color B blindness does seem like a good idea, however I would have thoughtA green (darker colour) would not be a good idea for this approach.i   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 20:42:11 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Charon Prices ?3 Message-ID: <jFI1uPCZnkZP@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  : http://www.softresint.com/charon-vax/CHVX_windows_plus.htm   list the order numbers:n   	CHVX-B020-WI	One year license( 	CHVX-E020-WI	One year license extension) 	CHVX-P020-WI	Unlimited license extension= 	CHVX-S020-WI	One year support  D Does anyone know the US prices ?  I can't find them on the web site.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:32:53 -0500R+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>UF Subject: Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ...8 Message-ID: <bd7u4usm59s2ef29o4gf11tpqur2p0f8ta@4ax.com>  B On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:39:56 +0000 (UTC), david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:  P >As a matter of interest are there any new standards about to be produced in the7 >next couple of years eg Cobol 2003, Fortran 2005 etc ?   @ Yes - Fortran 2000, as it is currently called, will probably getA approved sometime in 2003 or 2004.  It is a big leap from Fortran  (19)90.        Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering Intel Corporationb
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:31:05 -0500m+ From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com>kL Subject: Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses8 Message-ID: <d87u4uc3oebbjccjd56j9l7l774pb7b6tn@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:26:56 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>2 wrote:    0 >>> Hm, "over time" there will not be any Alpha.3 >>> So it more or less depends on the definition of  >>> "over time", I suppose...u >>; >>   Just ask anyone waiting for Fortran 95 for their KL10.i  
 Or their VAX.h  F >Out of nothing more than curiosity did VAX Fortran and PDP-10 Fortran( >ever share any common code anyone know?  C No, though they did share several common developers.  (And we stille6 have two PDP-10/20 FORTRAN developers on the project!)       Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering Intel Corporatione
 Nashua, NH  . Compaq Fortran - http://www.compaq.com/fortranK Intel Fortran - http://developer.intel.com/software/products/compilers/f50/r   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 17:45:53 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)sY Subject: Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses     allcredid= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231745.527faf9a@posting.google.com>a  h koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in message news:<Q+MLwin0Uu$5@eisner.encompasserve.org>...h > In article <rkcr4ukqna9rltqjvn250t02sdolm2ears@4ax.com>, Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@intel.com> writes: > > G > > Well, some compilers won't have a common code base between IA64 ande3 > > Alpha, so for them, the question is irrelevant.  > C >    I believe the question is more relavent to the VMS source thanw2 >    the compiler source.  Or to our applications.  B Like anything, that's going likely going to depend upon your code.A Some VAX C code won't work on Alpha if it assumes 512-byte pages,l@ and such like that.  If your application has the same code base B for VAX and Alpha, then I would expect a clean build on IA64, too.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 12:14:58 -0800- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) 1 Subject: Re: Configuring Dec net over serial portt= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0201231214.3fb7ede6@posting.google.com>i  Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C4EAB22.7FF1CCED@videotron.ca>...g > Chris Bardell wrote: > > - VAX only! (DDCMP ONLY). > > - Only in 'advanced' mode of NET$CONFIGUREI > > - Before running NET$CONFIGURE, know which terminal & speed to use>>>  > K > What about if the alpha is running the good old decnet-4 ? Would DDCMP bef
 > available ?s  k Apparently not. See http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/73final/documentation/pdf/DECNET_OVMS_GD_Network.PDFbA and scroll down to page 48 / 49 - the section on serial DECnet is , marked "VAX". Page 63 also explains further.  E But a good point, nonetheless. Anyway, is the suggestion of Kermit ofh) any use for the originator of this topic?   C Forgotten how much I miss NCP commands. You know - sensible syntax,d! and proper (ie. complete) help...u   Regards.   Chris Bardell, UK.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:41:42 -0500d  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* Subject: Re: DCL "compiler"? (not checker)6 Message-ID: <1020123154026.29608A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Phillip Helbig wrote:  H > > Yes, there once was a DCL to Fortran translator. Trouble is, Fortran( > > doesn't ship with every VMS distro.  > 
 > Granted. > $ > > (MACRO32 does) and the resultingG > > program, once compiled and LINKed, required a proprietary RTL which=& > > served as the licensing mechanism. > G > I'm pretty sure that the Fortran (and most other) RTLs are there and tC > that on a machine with no compilers linked programs will run---nonH > license issue at all---as long, of course, that they were compiled and > linked elsewhere.   > Don't know, but I think David is refering to a proprietary RTL> that the DCL compiler uses in addition to the Fortran RTL, not to the Fortran RTL itself.   -- D John Santos. Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:20:30 GMTe1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>y* Subject: Re: DCL "compiler"? (not checker)' Message-ID: <3C4F7066.C226F5AE@fsi.net>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > H > > Yes, there once was a DCL to Fortran translator. Trouble is, Fortran' > > doesn't ship with every VMS distro.o > 
 > Granted. > $ > > (MACRO32 does) and the resultingG > > program, once compiled and LINKed, required a proprietary RTL whichs& > > served as the licensing mechanism. > F > I'm pretty sure that the Fortran (and most other) RTLs are there andC > that on a machine with no compilers linked programs will run---no-H > license issue at all---as long, of course, that they were compiled and > linked elsewhere.n  
 djesys wrote:e" > (MACRO32 does) and the resultingE > program, once compiled and LINKed, required a proprietary RTL whichu?                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^eE That is, nothing that normally ships with VMS as issued by Digital orr its successors.d  $ > served as the licensing mechanism.  E That is, the target system had to contain a properly licensed copy off the DCL-to-Fortran Runtime.r   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:24:58 -0700 - From: "Rowell, Bradley" <browell@state.mt.us>u1 Subject: RE: disk sharing between windows and VMSo@ Message-ID: <1245D1C0C039D411933708002BB29C644B2DFE@DOAISD02003>  # Vector Networks have a nice productl  5 http://www.vector-networks.com/products/index_vms.htmi   -----Original Message-----6 From: steve.esson@esa.int [mailto:steve.esson@esa.int]) Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 9:20 AMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come- Subject: disk sharing between windows and VMSn    B Advanced Server works great for sharing VMS space with windows but5 what is the best way to use a windows share from VMS?a   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 14:11:42 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: disk sharing between windows and VMSi= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201231411.5c74c7db@posting.google.com>e  l steve.esson@esa.int (hieronymous) wrote in message news:<fe9697fd.0201230819.42e971a1@posting.google.com>...D > Advanced Server works great for sharing VMS space with windows but7 > what is the best way to use a windows share from VMS?t   this product is pretty neat ...   . http://www.vector-networks.com/luvms/index.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:17:43 -0700s+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>-1 Subject: Re: disk sharing between windows and VMSy% Message-ID: <3C4F60B7.60807@mmaz.com>e   Bob Ceculski wrote::  m >steve.esson@esa.int (hieronymous) wrote in message news:<fe9697fd.0201230819.42e971a1@posting.google.com>...m >vD >>Advanced Server works great for sharing VMS space with windows but7 >>what is the best way to use a windows share from VMS?o >> >m  >this product is pretty neat ... >i/ >http://www.vector-networks.com/luvms/index.htm  >   D What type of success have you had restoring files from a VMS backup F saveset back out to the PC with this product?  Presuming that you are B only attempting to restore user data such as Word, Excel, Access, H Photoshop, Pagemaker, Autocad files, etc. and not the actual Windows or 8 WINNT hierarchy, do the files remain intact and useable?   Regards,   Barry    >e   -- 2  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028s   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 11:08:07 -0800& From: jordan@ccs4vms.com (Rich Jordan)% Subject: Re: DS20 license value error6; Message-ID: <cc5619f2.0201231108.95a5b6@posting.google.com>o  C Eminently possible.  But the second CPU is operating, and we get no F errors at all at any time after that initial complaint in the startup.   Rich Jordant  d "www.islandco.com" <sales@islandco.com> wrote in message news:<u4tmbpagmtbh36@news.supernews.com>..." > I think that's your problem then >  > Davidt > 5 > "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com> wrote in message 9 > news:cc5619f2.0201230712.6d4d71f4@posting.google.com... D > > There is no SMP license, nor any other on the system that shouldC > > provide that service, or additional units towards VMS; only the-C > > OPENVMS-ALPHA and the OPENVMS-ALPHA-USER PAKs are installed (or@ > > available).: > >B > > Rich Jordan  > >g   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:18:38 GMTl2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: ethernet boot diskless VAX-11/730?s1 Message-ID: <ypI38.367$PZ4.7507@news.cpqcorp.net>   e In article <a2l9s8$e2t$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>, du651@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Joseph Ballantyne) writes:oD :I need to boot a VAX-11/730 as a diskless satellite in a VAXcluster+ :   where most of the nodes run VMS5.5-2H4.   K   AFAIK, the code downloaded during a satellite bootstrap does not support s   the VAX-11/730 platform.  J   AFAIK, the VAX-11/730 has no way to solicit a download request, and the K   VMB found on console media has no network capabilities.  VAXeln did have hM   a bootstrap that loaded an image containing MOP support, but (as mentioned fF   earlier) even if you got the MOP request transmitted, the secondary 0   bootstrap doesn't know about a VAX-11/730 box.  F   It has been a long time, but my recollection is that the VAX-11/730 F   loads its brains from the TU58 before it gets rolling, and not just D   the VMB.EXE (BOOT.EXE) and DEFBOO.CMD stuff -- a host of stuff (noA   pun intended) has to load before you get to DEFBOO and friends.h  B   There are ancient discussions around the correct ordering of theE   contents of the console TU58 around -- alphanumeric order makes the-E   normally slow TU58 access required during the bootstrap even worse.l  L   I used a cut-down version of OpenVMS VAX stuffed onto an RL02 for service H   and maintenance purposes -- I used to stuff enough of (as it was then I   known) VAX/VMS V4.x and DECnet for a minimal bootstrap and BACKUP over TI   DECnet into about 3MB of disk.  This is the approach I would take here,wI   if you have an RL02 around -- though you did say the box was diskless, oE   sometimes folks (quite reasonably :-) forget about this disk drive.n  M   The only way I know to get this box to bootstrap while completely diskless EJ   would involve writing a new secondary (or tertiary) loader image for it.L   And I am not certain that a VAX-11/730 system with one or two failed TU58 K   console drives would function.  (The VAX-11/730 boxes I've seen have all -L   had two TU58 drives.  I'll assume you've checked the alternate TU58 drive J   -- on some VAX-11/730 configurations, you had to pull the processor out @   on the sliders to gain access to the side-mounted TU58 drive.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 19:07:53 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)sD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!< Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231907.97bc7f5@posting.google.com>  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E2D69.AF1220B7@fsi.net>... > "David L. Cathey" wrote:
 > > [snip]6 > >         So let's evaluate how that strategy works: > > , > > 1) You feel the VMS market is shrinking. > 4 > Woah, thar! Seems to me you skipped a few steps...  7 	You're sidestepping the issue - the real meat is here:o  9 > > 5) Folks here get really happy about the situation...oP > > 6) Compaq notices and magically reverses years of reduction in market share. > D > You're talking futures now, but yes - that is the only way to turnD > things around. Compaq must act. Failing that, expecting critics to: > magically fall silent is neither logical nor reasonable.  = 	"Must act"...  Very non-specific.  They have acted.  OpenVMSgI revenues are still growing, customers are being won.  Some lost customersrG have come back after a few too many blue-screens.  You see, that's your F problems, you make a very vague demand, and no matter whatthey do, youD always claim it isn't enough.  Unless they appearently give you free hardware/software.  Q > >         My question, is how does one get from #5 to #6.  Jobs lost are likely M > > lost.  What magic bullet creates corporate demand for an Operating System|% > > without regard for applications?   > ? > Compaq is "Mr. Scaramonga(sp?)", The Man With the Golden Gun.o > J > Compaq and Compaq *ALONE* have the power to "stem the tide". Nothing anyI > VAR, ISV or OEM, or collection of same, can do will have a sufficientlyp > major impact.j  D 	Bzzzt.  We have some nice parting gifts.  There is no magic bullet.L There never is.  Not even, as you suggest, a magic bullet for Mr. Scaramonga? (else Ian Fleming would have started another series of movies).N  + > > What "marketing" program will make yourdM > > boss giddy as a school girl and buy $100,000 or $500,000 or $1,000,000 ofn > > OpenVMS goodies? > I > Getting 10, 50 or 100 machines respectively, fully outfitted with o.s., H > warranty and three years of platinum-level support. Third-party app.'s, > are, of course, another question entirely.  G 	Here we go - free hardware and software.  But at least for once you've O provided a potential marketing program.  So, Mr. Harvard Business School, let'sm+ run the numbers and see what we can expect:   E 	First, let's target a market.  There are over 2.5 million businessesiN in the US, more than that globally.  That's a lot.  Let's target about 500,000 of them.  A 	Let's put together 10 fully loaded DS10's for each business, all-I licenses, and that Platinum support for 3 years.  Let's say about $10,000t6 per system.  Each targetted business gets 10 of these.  D 	Ouch...  That's about $5 Billion Dollars for your marketing effort.H That's more than the annual profit for several years running.  Maybe I'mF stupid, but sounds to me that's not a good marketing plan, David.  Got another ideas?  7 > >         The problem is there isn't a magic bullet. t > H > Well, yeah, there is. The hard part is getting "the Q" to cock the gun > and fire it! >  > > There is no "where's theP > > beef" advertizing campaign that works in this industry.  They're not sellingQ > > fast food.  They're selling a solution (of which OpenVMS is only a part) that  > > has to work.   > E > Even Herman Woodchuck getting on cable TV, staring blankly into the-G > camera and saying, "Hi! I'm Herman Woodchuck. Please buy my product."l: > would be more than we've seen from VMS in recent memory. > F > Never mind quality for now. Let's get the quantity greater than zeroI > first, since that seems to be the major battle. We'll deal with qualityV0 > when we can afford to quibble over such triva.  @ 	What magazines to you read?  What TV shows to you watch?  WhereF would an OpenVMS advertizement find you?  Are they not finding you, or are you not finding them?   A > > I've been in sales cycles like this, and they can take months0R > > to years of work and negotiation.  And then you still lose out.  It's not just8 > > a marketing problem.  Sometimes it's very political. > G > Is that a veiled way of saying that Billy's Mafia are more formidable( > than we may imagine?  > 	Not at all.  It's not Billy's Mafia that's being battled mostE times.  It's IBM.  It's Sun.  It's HP.  These are the real threats toF; OpenVMS marketshare.  Not in some article in Windows World.c  eN > >         Compaq has fought back from the downward spiral of OpenVMS revenueO > > once.  It's not going to improve matters making them have to do it all overt
 > > again. > D > ...but the job's not even half done yet. Ya gotta finish something. > before you can think about doing it "again".  C 	The spiral is over, OpenVMS has been growing around 8% for a while1J now.  You want to stop that under some impression it will increase OpenVMSC market share (reduce marketshare makes it get bigger...  right...).g  M > > > > Before you bitch at Compaq's marketing of OpenVMS, take a good, long,6I > > > > honest look at your own marketing of OpenVMS, too.  Remember thath >  word-of-mouthN > > > > is often some of the strongest and most effective marketing tool, even > > > today. > J > We are not about to repeat Compaq's mistake of making promises we cannot > keep.O  F 	Sorry, but I have to ask.  Are you a Compaq customer?  I mean really,4 have you bought anything from them in the last year?  O > > > I certainly hope so, because that will increase the leverage on Compaq ofd > > > what goes on here. > > E > >         Actually, it can only undermine what leverage Compaq has.  > J > How so? Compaq is the vendor of OVMS. What more "leverage" do they need?  A 	Customers are the leverage, not the O/S.  Driving away customers-G undermines the leverage to attracting more customers.  That is what you.H want, isn't it?  More OpenVMS customers?  That is what you've stated you< want to do to achieve that, isn't it?  Drive away customers?  N > >         But hopefully I can at least make one or two stop and think.  It'sP > > the "cutting of your nose to spite your face" concept.  The Hobbyist ProgramE > > provides an excellent opportunity here - port your favorite app. e > H > Can't - it's illegal and against the hobbyist license terms, remember?  > 	Bull.  PostgreSQL could be ported.  I'd love to see it.  GIMPI probably needs a new port.  There are lots of cool tools, several alreadyrF on the Freeware CD, have been ported.  There's lots more that could be* ported legally under the Hobbyist License.  ? 	If you have a commercial product, and want to port it, sign up1I for CSA.  If your "commercial product" can't raise enough profit to coughbH up the dough to do that, I'd seriously question the usage of "commerical% product" in relation to your program.e   > > Remember$ > > that often the apps draw demand. > B > Please take every opportunity to remind Compaq of that, O.k.? We3 > desperately need to motivate ISVs, VARs and OEMs..  B 	ISV's, VAR's and OEM's are motivated by sales or demand.  Compaq,G unless they BUY the products, aren't going to create demand.  Customersn create demand.  N > >         The Hobbyist license is perfect for anyone to port a cool Unix app > > to OpenVMS.  > ( > For profit? That's illegal, is it not? > J > Yeah - I *KNOW* about freeware. Key customer sites have rules against it	 > though.n  B 	Let me ask an obvious question.  David, do you have an idea for aG commercial software product that you're wanting to create, and the only K thing standing in your way is that you cannot afford to purcahse an Alpha +oF CSA Membership + OpenVMS SDK in order to create this software product?  G 	You seem to be in a real pickle, then.  You can't develop a commercialsI application using the Hobbyist Program.  But you can't afford to join thed CSA Program, either.  F 	Assuming you do have an idea, maybe I can lease you time on one of my1 systems for you to develop your software product.:   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 19:47:09 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)lD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231947.6fed59ff@posting.google.com>   n John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message news:<3C4DC56E.6E6F3C16@swissonline.delete.ch>... > David, nicely stated ! > H > There's a few comments that I've scattered through your text which may > be relevant. >  > "David L. Cathey" wrote: > >  >  ...> > >         But an antagonistic approach isn't ever effective. > I > True, not in a situation where you want someone to do something and are'G > discussing it with them.  There is however the situation where otherscJ > being antagonistic can make a change (eg. stockholders meeting where theG > stockholders get downright aggressive).  I'm not advocating it or not9D > advocating it, I just wanted to make you aware of the possibility.  B 	That's different, since legally the Board can't override the willJ of the stockholers.  I.e. HP/Compaq can't merge if the stockholders (which0 may or may not be angry about it) nix the deal.    L > >         I think it's between incompetence, still not quite understandingM > > what they have, and needing to concentrate on not losing money on some ofaO > > their other products.  OpenVMS is still a cash cow for Compaq, and still is M > > in growth.  It needs to be fed, but it's helping support the bottom line.T > I > I accept that it is a cash-cow but the cow will dry up without a decentnH > amount of care and attention; even better would be to fatten it up.  II > see Compaq's failure to make a real effort to extend the market as suresI > way to cause the cow to go dry and the slaughterman be called.  At thiscF > stage the cow is a only a little poorly and with only a small effort > could easily recover.l  ? 	Again, you just can't throw an OpenVMS box in a computer room,eF and it just start doing work.  There are other infrastructure requiredF which Compaq is working on.  These things take time.  You can't always seem them happening, either. y  G > You can compound this by saying that accelerated shrinkage also means ? > fewer applications, making the platform even less attractive.-  = 	Exactly, since the individual vendors would not afford to bey# able to support those apps anymore.:  N > >         But hopefully I can at least make one or two stop and think.  It's: > > the "cutting of your nose to spite your face" concept. > H > Yes, stopping even just one customer from moving away from VMS because; > of what Bill has said will be certainly worth the effort.s   	That's good enough for me!y   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:01:05 GMTw1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>aD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!' Message-ID: <3C4F87E2.8F956AC3@fsi.net>-   "David L. Cathey" wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E2D69.AF1220B7@fsi.net>...
 > > [snip]F > > You're talking futures now, but yes - that is the only way to turnF > > things around. Compaq must act. Failing that, expecting critics to< > > magically fall silent is neither logical nor reasonable.  G O.k. This hasn't work yet, either, but I'll give it one last try before + blasting off a scathing, vitriolic missive:   > >         "Must act"...  Very non-specific.  They have acted.    Evidence please?  	 > OpenVMS- > revenues are still growing,    Evidence please?   > customers are being won. c   Evidence please?   > Some lost customersw4 > have come back after a few too many blue-screens.    Evidence please?   > You see, that's yourH > problems, you make a very vague demand, and no matter whatthey do, you  > always claim it isn't enough.   E ...because the evidence is lacking. If there's no evidence, what am ItF (or what is anyone else) to think? (...and before anyone goes off on a? Biblical rant, at least The Bible offers some documentation and 3 eye-witness account, credibility not withstanding.)   ' > Unless they appearently give you free  > hardware/software.  H If you're dying of thirst, haven't penny to your name and someone offersF you a glass of water, but only at a price of one million dollars, whatB is that glass of water worth to *YOU*? (think carefully about your answer.   G I'm not asking for "free" - just don't take the food out of my family'seD mouth, the clothes off their backs or the roof from over their head.  ' Why is that so difficult to understand?-  S > > >         My question, is how does one get from #5 to #6.  Jobs lost are likelyrO > > > lost.  What magic bullet creates corporate demand for an Operating Systema& > > > without regard for applications? > >eA > > Compaq is "Mr. Scaramonga(sp?)", The Man With the Golden Gun.t > >tL > > Compaq and Compaq *ALONE* have the power to "stem the tide". Nothing anyK > > VAR, ISV or OEM, or collection of same, can do will have a sufficientlyr > > major impact.h > M >         Bzzzt.  We have some nice parting gifts.  There is no magic bullet.>  H Well, yes, there is. You just haven't found it yet. "The Q" know what itH is, especially those who came from Digital to the present day. CustomersD of old know what is, which is why I'm surprised that it escapes you.  N > There never is.  Not even, as you suggest, a magic bullet for Mr. ScaramongaA > (else Ian Fleming would have started another series of movies).- > - > > > What "marketing" program will make yourfO > > > boss giddy as a school girl and buy $100,000 or $500,000 or $1,000,000 of- > > > OpenVMS goodies? > >3K > > Getting 10, 50 or 100 machines respectively, fully outfitted with o.s.,cJ > > warranty and three years of platinum-level support. Third-party app.'s. > > are, of course, another question entirely. > 3 >         Here we go - free hardware and software. F  " Try $10,000 each. Check your math.   > But at least for once you'veQ > provided a potential marketing program.  So, Mr. Harvard Business School, let'sn- > run the numbers and see what we can expect:m > N >         First, let's target a market.  There are over 2.5 million businessesP > in the US, more than that globally.  That's a lot.  Let's target about 500,000
 > of them.  G Based on what criterion? Size? Business? Use of IT within the business?.  J >         Let's put together 10 fully loaded DS10's for each business, allK > licenses, and that Platinum support for 3 years.  Let's say about $10,000M8 > per system.  Each targetted business gets 10 of these.  3 A bit random, but I'll play along for the moment...O  M >         Ouch...  That's about $5 Billion Dollars for your marketing effort.t  A WOAH THERE! Where did we get $5 billion for a marketing effort we G apparently don't need? We're just handing out these machines for takerse@ at $10,000 a pop, right?  5 million machines (500,000 times 10 =E 5,000,000 - o.k., that works) now: 500,000 times (10 times $10,000 =)oG $100,000 and our gross take would be ... $500 billion! F'ing-A alright!rC That puts us at $495 billion to the good after marketing and beforepG other expenses! Figure the margin is circa. 50% or so, and that's stilldB circa. $245 billion! When's the last time either Digital or Compaq' turned in a performance like *THAT*??!!   J > That's more than the annual profit for several years running.  Maybe I'mH > stupid, but sounds to me that's not a good marketing plan, David.  Got > another ideas?   Yeah! Check your numbers!i  8 > > >         The problem is there isn't a magic bullet. > >eJ > > Well, yeah, there is. The hard part is getting "the Q" to cock the gun > > and fire it! > >r > > > There is no "where's theR > > > beef" advertizing campaign that works in this industry.  They're not sellingS > > > fast food.  They're selling a solution (of which OpenVMS is only a part) that< > > > has to work. > >-G > > Even Herman Woodchuck getting on cable TV, staring blankly into thenI > > camera and saying, "Hi! I'm Herman Woodchuck. Please buy my product."-< > > would be more than we've seen from VMS in recent memory. > >rH > > Never mind quality for now. Let's get the quantity greater than zeroK > > first, since that seems to be the major battle. We'll deal with qualityu2 > > when we can afford to quibble over such triva. > I >         What magazines to you read?  What TV shows to you watch?  Where H > would an OpenVMS advertizement find you?  Are they not finding you, or > are you not finding them?v  E The point is they are not recahing me, nor are they being reported bys> many other folks here (again, search the newsgroups archives).  C > > > I've been in sales cycles like this, and they can take months T > > > to years of work and negotiation.  And then you still lose out.  It's not just: > > > a marketing problem.  Sometimes it's very political. > >eI > > Is that a veiled way of saying that Billy's Mafia are more formidable  > > than we may imagine? > G >         Not at all.  It's not Billy's Mafia that's being battled mostcG > times.  It's IBM.  It's Sun.  It's HP.  These are the real threats tot= > OpenVMS marketshare.  Not in some article in Windows World.u  B So, there's the competition. All they gotta do is be sure they can' provide the best offer to the prospect.s  P > > >         Compaq has fought back from the downward spiral of OpenVMS revenueQ > > > once.  It's not going to improve matters making them have to do it all over  > > > again. > >wF > > ...but the job's not even half done yet. Ya gotta finish something0 > > before you can think about doing it "again". > L >         The spiral is over, OpenVMS has been growing around 8% for a whileL > now.  You want to stop that under some impression it will increase OpenVMSE > market share (reduce marketshare makes it get bigger...  right...).i  E Try again. I see no evidence of growth, only shrinkage. I can testifyi> only to what I see, as I would expect to be true for you also.  + So, I'll say it yet again: evidence please?   O > > > > > Before you bitch at Compaq's marketing of OpenVMS, take a good, long, K > > > > > honest look at your own marketing of OpenVMS, too.  Remember thatm > >  word-of-mouthP > > > > > is often some of the strongest and most effective marketing tool, even > > > > today. > > L > > We are not about to repeat Compaq's mistake of making promises we cannot	 > > keep.d > O >         Sorry, but I have to ask.  Are you a Compaq customer?  I mean really, 6 > have you bought anything from them in the last year?  H In so far as my employer(s) has(have), yes. I am part of that team. It'sH my project - I own it, I am held accountable. So, yes I have bought from Compaq.x  Q > > > > I certainly hope so, because that will increase the leverage on Compaq oft > > > > what goes on here. > > >aG > > >         Actually, it can only undermine what leverage Compaq has.0 > >yL > > How so? Compaq is the vendor of OVMS. What more "leverage" do they need? > J >         Customers are the leverage, not the O/S.  Driving away customersI > undermines the leverage to attracting more customers.  That is what yougJ > want, isn't it?  More OpenVMS customers?  That is what you've stated you> > want to do to achieve that, isn't it?  Drive away customers?  / Do you consistently interpret things backwards?r  G No, we want to *ATTRACT* customers ... but that won't happen by showingdH them products that they cannot afford and which have no more credibility; than the vendor, appear to have no (popular) support in thenF market-at-large, and appear to have no future since there is currentlyF no viable platform (remember: Alpha is dead, IPF is still vaporware orF beta-quality at best) and which come from a vendor with a track recordE of being unresponsive to the needs of its customers, as documented in. public fora.  - ...which brings us back to ... need I say it?   P > > >         But hopefully I can at least make one or two stop and think.  It'sR > > > the "cutting of your nose to spite your face" concept.  The Hobbyist ProgramF > > > provides an excellent opportunity here - port your favorite app. > >wJ > > Can't - it's illegal and against the hobbyist license terms, remember? > B >         Bull.  PostgreSQL could be ported.  I'd love to see it.   G Is Cerner Millenium certified to work with that as well as with Oracle?t   ...any commercial software?e   > GIMPK > probably needs a new port.  There are lots of cool tools, several alreadysH > on the Freeware CD, have been ported.  There's lots more that could be, > ported legally under the Hobbyist License. > H >         If you have a commercial product, and want to port it, sign upK > for CSA.  If your "commercial product" can't raise enough profit to coughnJ > up the dough to do that, I'd seriously question the usage of "commerical' > product" in relation to your program.  >  > > > Remember& > > > that often the apps draw demand. > > D > > Please take every opportunity to remind Compaq of that, O.k.? We5 > > desperately need to motivate ISVs, VARs and OEMs.a > K >         ISV's, VAR's and OEM's are motivated by sales or demand.  Compaq,o  > unless they BUY the products,   6 ...or offer financial incentives to the ISVs, etc. ...  * >aren't going to create demand.  Customers > create demand.  B So, I'll ask *THIS* again, as well: how do we break the stalemate?  G So far, all you're doing is arguing. Stop being part of the problem and @ become part of the solution: propose answers to these questions.  P > > >         The Hobbyist license is perfect for anyone to port a cool Unix app > > > to OpenVMS.n > >m* > > For profit? That's illegal, is it not? > > L > > Yeah - I *KNOW* about freeware. Key customer sites have rules against it > > though.  > K >         Let me ask an obvious question.  David, do you have an idea for aoI > commercial software product that you're wanting to create, and the onlyoM > thing standing in your way is that you cannot afford to purcahse an Alpha + H > CSA Membership + OpenVMS SDK in order to create this software product? > P >         You seem to be in a real pickle, then.  You can't develop a commercialK > application using the Hobbyist Program.  But you can't afford to join theh > CSA Program, either. > O >         Assuming you do have an idea, maybe I can lease you time on one of myl3 > systems for you to develop your software product.s  H Hold that thought - and be prepared to offer it to anyone else who lurks' or actively participates in this group.n   -- e David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:43:46 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>eD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!, Message-ID: <3C4F9F0F.A994AFC8@videotron.ca>   "David L. Cathey" wrote:F >         "Must act"...  Very non-specific.  They have acted.  OpenVMS7 > revenues are still growing, customers are being won. t  K This information is not complete enough to draw any conclusion. What if foroC ever sale of a VMS system, you have 5 customers who stop paying for J maintenance (indicating they no longer make serious use of their system) ?  G And more importantly, to attract ISVs,  sale of systems is not the onltrN metric. A shop that buys a mega wildfire to replace a bunch of alphas will notL be growing its infratsructure and won't be buying new software, it will justL combine everything into one. In the end, that sale actually results in fewer systems being in production.  N An active customer is one that is growing its VMS infrastructure by continuingN to add new applications to it. But my image is that the remaining VMS customerM base are keeping their old apps running on VMS because they run fine, but newoK stuff is neing added to their Unix and NT servers because that is where theh1 company has chosen to grow its IT infrastrcuture.t  J In the past, when Digital had  huge portfolio of layered packages, DigitalH would have some idea of customer activity by monitoring sales of layeredF products. But now that Digital/Compaq have dropped most of its layeredN products on VMS, they have no way to measure the activity on those VMS systems
 out there.   So who do you trust ?-G The Compaq employee who cannot admit that things are not going too wella because he would lose his job ?:J The Compaq employee who is only given the news of new sales now and then ?  E or the VMS loyalists who is seing customers' decisions on the field ?s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:02:06 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!? Message-ID: <yrN38.2875$zt2.327566@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>.  8 "David L. Cathey" <davidc@montagar.com> wrote in message6 news:e565ed03.0201231907.97bc7f5@posting.google.com...   ...d  ? > It's IBM.  It's Sun.  It's HP.  These are the real threats tot > OpenVMS marketshare.  L And it's not at all difficult to understand why:  just look at how IBM, Sun,I and HP treat their products that compete with VMS, and contrast that with  how Compaq treats VMS.   ...   D > The spiral is over, OpenVMS has been growing around 8% for a while > now.  L That claim (which you also made earlier but less specifically) is simply notH true, at least from all the information one can glean from the quarterlyH financial statements.  VMS *did* grow at something like 8% in 2000 (whenG Tru64 was growing at about 30%, incidentally - and of course the entireoI industry was in Fat City), but appeared to level off and start to declineaK before the June 25th announcement, participated in (may even have led - andtL not hard to guess why) the major Q3 dive, and didn't dramatically recover inJ Q4 (unlike Tru64, which apparently benefited from a few major sales likelyE set up prior to June 25th, and NSK, which was the exception to the Q3eJ disaster and maintained its strength through Q4 as well).  Details of thatL analysis can be found in a recent post of mine:  feel welcome to present any3 solid information that might shed additional light.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:25:25 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e7 Subject: Hewlett, Packard Step Up Merger Battle with HPm/ Message-ID: <9TF38.7773$eL.7331@news1.bloor.is>.  L http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020123/tc/tech_compaq_hewlettpackard_dc_3. html  L The battle between Hewlett-Packard Co. and its founders' family members overI its proposed $25 billion merger with Compaq Computer Corp. intensified onyH Wednesday when David Packard said in a full-page newspaper ad that HP is misusing his father's words.  H Walter Hewlett, the son of the company's other founder, also renewed hisE attack on the deal, publishing a new report contesting HP's financial  assumptions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:23:42 -0500-% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>0; Subject: Re: Hewlett, Packard Step Up Merger Battle with HPt, Message-ID: <3C4F540D.C84802C9@videotron.ca>   John Smith wrote:lN > The battle between Hewlett-Packard Co. and its founders' family members overK > its proposed $25 billion merger with Compaq Computer Corp. intensified on.J > Wednesday when David Packard said in a full-page newspaper ad that HP is > misusing his father's words.    K Cool. The solution is to give Agilent the "HP" name (where it belongs), andlM hive Carly's company the "Agilent" name. And transfer the printer business toe@ the "quality" company and leave Carly with her toy Wintel stuff.  K Then, when Agilent buys Compaq, it will keep the Compaq name because it hasa$ more brand recognition than Agilent.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 20:28:43 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o Subject: Re: hobbyist license 3 Message-ID: <Yq$$jnxfaSrw@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  w In article <01KDEXRWVIWY8Y566K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iI >> Startup capital of less that $995 (CSA startup cost) does not make forn$ >> a very viable company these days. > J > Correct me if I am wrong, but CSA is for developing software to be sold ; > to other people, not for developing software for oneself.i > J > Suppose your daughter does some sewing for $5 an hour and you advertise K > this on your web server on your VMS box.  That's commercial usage and is eH > NOT covered by CSA since you aren't DEVELOPING a software package for C > advertising sewing daughters but rather USING VMS YOURSELF for a u+ > commercial purpose, so CSA doesn't apply.   G Suppose you develop software under the CSA license.  Using that licenserG for running your web server is _still_ not covered since the license isnG only for developing and demonstrating your software.  I suppose it is a6E bit fuzzy if the software you write is a web server, but running youra/ business is not the purpose of the CSA license.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:06:06 GMTM1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>a Subject: Re: hobbyist licensee' Message-ID: <3C4F7B31.3D74651B@fsi.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > y > In article <01KDEXRWVIWY8Y566K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iK > >> Startup capital of less that $995 (CSA startup cost) does not make forw& > >> a very viable company these days. > >DK > > Correct me if I am wrong, but CSA is for developing software to be soldu= > > to other people, not for developing software for oneself.  > >uK > > Suppose your daughter does some sewing for $5 an hour and you advertisetL > > this on your web server on your VMS box.  That's commercial usage and isI > > NOT covered by CSA since you aren't DEVELOPING a software package for0D > > advertising sewing daughters but rather USING VMS YOURSELF for a- > > commercial purpose, so CSA doesn't apply.c > I > Suppose you develop software under the CSA license.  Using that license I > for running your web server is _still_ not covered since the license iseI > only for developing and demonstrating your software.  I suppose it is atG > bit fuzzy if the software you write is a web server, but running your.1 > business is not the purpose of the CSA license.   A ...which brings us back to the question of affordable OpenVMS fork
 end-users.  4 Damn! There's just no escaping that issue, is there?   -- b David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:21:36 GMTl From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG 2 Subject: Re: internals question: mode of execution0 Message-ID: <00A087B2.7E4E8694@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <01KDEYEW0DME8ZI8TR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:aJ >There are various ways (F$MODE(), SHOW SYSTEM,...) which a process a) canJ >use to find out what mode (BATCH, INTERACTIVE,...) process b) is running $ >in, including the case where a = b. >l" >WHERE is this information stored?  	 PCB$L_STS.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMl             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes,   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 19:31:25 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)eR Subject: Re: laws (was: RE: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows!)= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231931.21cd79f1@posting.google.com>p  | Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> wrote in message news:<01KDDJT4ZMF68ZI8TR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>...I > > But there are some obscure old laws.  The law prohibiting spitting ingE > > Baltimore is over 200 years old.  Maryland has the only operating L > > commercial dredging fleet under sail because the law prohibits dredging > > > for mollusks in the Chesapeake Bay except when under sail. > G > Of course, many states in the U.S. still have laws against [wrinkles nG > forehead while contemplating ways of avoiding various p.c., net-nannymJ > etc content filters] things consenting adults can and elsewhere normallyJ > do with each other without fear of the law.  "Don't swallow, honey, it's > the sherrif."  :-)  F I like the recent story where someone got off a DWI charge for drivingD stoned.  The appealed under the basis that pot was not alcohol nor aD narcotic, and therefore was not an intoxicant under that states law.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:44:53 GMT 4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>Y Subject: Re: laws (was: RE: Bill Gates admits security "non-existent" in windows!) windowt0 Message-ID: <3C4F11CE.4CEEF40D@blueyonder.co.uk>  ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:e > $ > Well, that's the problem isn't it? > H > There probably IS a law in the US which stops you from doing that very > thing. It's just obscure!i >    K and the president and government are immune from prosecution under it ? :-)  --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk     C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of e! my employers or service provider.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:47:37 GMTl1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>. Subject: Re: Open VMS manual' Message-ID: <3C4F76DC.57A641FE@fsi.net>r  
 makine wrote:  >  > Thank you very much.  A If you have trouble with the non-standard HTTP port (:8000), try:   " http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/   -- d David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:29:32 -0000g3 From: "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> Y Subject: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English word . Message-ID: <a2n9ql$8qn$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>  > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message' news:a2n73p$8r$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...y >a< > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:fW75ykHY6RYt@eisner.encompasserve.org...n > >tK > >    "bkjfn"  OK, so what is this, and how did it get into the 50000 wordo3 > >    dictionary that set password checks against?o > >s > J > It comes from TOPS-20, according to a Google search (the BKJFN% JSYS, if > that > means anything.  >eK > I see it also has POPJ, MOVEI, JFCL, HRROI, SYSTAT, TECO (but no EMACS ;)o > and probably others. >eF > I thought someone might have added them to EISNER, but they're on my system > too. >yG > So, some of the PDP-10 and TOPS-[10,20] operating system made it intom > VMS after all ;]  K Oddly enough, I can't see very many MACRO-32 instructions in there. Perhaps F the password dictionary in VMS originated as part of some DEC internalI version of the TOPS-[10? 20?] password change mechanism, to keep down thel number! of guessable passwords? Hoff? ;-)y  K For instance, we have MARLBOROUGH, MAYNARD, BOSTON, and LIVINGSTON (all DEC K locations). But no CLONMEL, so it predates the plant in Ireland. And no AYRsG (it does have other 3-letter words...), so it predates the plant there.o  E We also have UNIX, DECSYSTEM and VAX (and VAXEN, but no VAXES :), andd VAXVMS.aE But no ULTRIX, OPENVMS, or the short-lived name AXPVMS. Also, we havenH DIGITAL of course (because it is a proper word in its own right), but noF COMPAQ. We also have ARPANET but no INTERNET or DECNET. And FOOBAR and FUBAR, but no SNAFU ;)   E Of course it might not be possible to have some names like MICROSOFT,  GOOGLE,kL ALTAVISTA &c in the dictionary because they're trade marks. OTOH, though, it doesG have JELLO (no TWINKIE though). Doubtless there are other trademarks ine there,, but I don't know many American trademarks...  A Looks like someone forgot to keep the dictionary up to date... :).  	 -Malcolm..     -Malcolm   >  > -Malcolm.. >e >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:43:11 -0500 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>iY Subject: Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English -2 Message-ID: <3C4F3C7F.DE0BA5EF@firstdbasource.com>  : Sheesh... someone has WAY too much time on their hands....  :)    Malcolm wrote: > @ > "Malcolm" <malcolm@neverness.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message) > news:a2n73p$8r$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...e > > > > > "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:fW75ykHY6RYt@eisner.encompasserve.org...s > > >tM > > >    "bkjfn"  OK, so what is this, and how did it get into the 50000 wordg5 > > >    dictionary that set password checks against?h > > >o > >iL > > It comes from TOPS-20, according to a Google search (the BKJFN% JSYS, if > > that > > means anything.t > >gM > > I see it also has POPJ, MOVEI, JFCL, HRROI, SYSTAT, TECO (but no EMACS ;)  > > and probably others. > >pH > > I thought someone might have added them to EISNER, but they're on my > system > > too. > >pI > > So, some of the PDP-10 and TOPS-[10,20] operating system made it intoa > > VMS after all ;] > M > Oddly enough, I can't see very many MACRO-32 instructions in there. PerhapsoH > the password dictionary in VMS originated as part of some DEC internalK > version of the TOPS-[10? 20?] password change mechanism, to keep down them > number# > of guessable passwords? Hoff? ;-)  > M > For instance, we have MARLBOROUGH, MAYNARD, BOSTON, and LIVINGSTON (all DECoM > locations). But no CLONMEL, so it predates the plant in Ireland. And no AYRiI > (it does have other 3-letter words...), so it predates the plant there.c > G > We also have UNIX, DECSYSTEM and VAX (and VAXEN, but no VAXES :), and 	 > VAXVMS. G > But no ULTRIX, OPENVMS, or the short-lived name AXPVMS. Also, we have J > DIGITAL of course (because it is a proper word in its own right), but noH > COMPAQ. We also have ARPANET but no INTERNET or DECNET. And FOOBAR and > FUBAR, > but no SNAFU ;)h > G > Of course it might not be possible to have some names like MICROSOFT, 	 > GOOGLE,hN > ALTAVISTA &c in the dictionary because they're trade marks. OTOH, though, it > doesI > have JELLO (no TWINKIE though). Doubtless there are other trademarks inn > there,. > but I don't know many American trademarks... > C > Looks like someone forgot to keep the dictionary up to date... :)b >  > -Malcolm.  > 
 > -Malcolm >  > >t
 > > -Malcolm.d > >p > >  > >a   -- u   Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comt President/Sr. DBA Consultant 704-947-1089 (Office)D 704-236-4377 (Mobile)m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:28:26 -0500p% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>-Y Subject: Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English i, Message-ID: <3C4F5529.B19C8075@videotron.ca>   Malcolm wrote:M > For instance, we have MARLBOROUGH, MAYNARD, BOSTON, and LIVINGSTON (all DECaM > locations). But no CLONMEL, so it predates the plant in Ireland. And no AYReI > (it does have other 3-letter words...), so it predates the plant there.r      M Years ago, I was supporting a user of italian origin who was  having problemsSH logging into my machine. Seing the opcom messages when she was trying toM change her password, I knew it was hitting the no-no words in the dictionary.o  H I just told her "*those* words are not permitted for your password, justK translate them to italian and you'll be ok". She laughed and wanted to knowu8 how come I knew she was trying to type in dirty words...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:56:57 GMT - From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@rogers.com>m? Subject: Re: Problems with early ES40's & DS20's? (Joel Gallun)o/ Message-ID: <dCL38.8162$eL.5903@news1.bloor.is>   J Prior to being laid off, I remember reading a memo about about a worldwide0 FCO to change backplanes/motherboards in ES40's.  L Tell your Gold support team to contact the ES40 Product Manager directly and to provide you with details.   rtte   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:17:21 -0500 % From: Sarah Page <Sarah.Page@sas.com>mC Subject: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Codee2 Message-ID: <VQpPPCKncVlxtcI=kLUQ6rqPofl=@4ax.com>  F I create a temporary mailbox (nmbx_chan) and then immediately make the following call:   C status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb,w& &myAST,  nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0);  B The way I read the doc, this call says, "Call the myAST() functionC when something is written to the mailbox and no reader is present."   F myAST() is hit immediately (even though I *know* that NOTHING has beenF written to the mailbox).  myAST() does a QIOW() on nmbx_chan using theD IO$_READVBLK function code, and the call hangs indefinately, furtherF proving that there is nothing in the mailbox!  So why is my AST hit asD soon as I establish it for unsolicited writes to the mailbox, beforeB anything is written to the mailbox?  I got the same results when I5 tried with the READATTN function code just for kicks.    Thanks.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:19:54 GMTt4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>G Subject: Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Coden0 Message-ID: <3C4F1A03.40F54A88@blueyonder.co.uk>   Sarah Page wrote:  > H > I create a temporary mailbox (nmbx_chan) and then immediately make the > following call:o > E > status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb,t( > &myAST,  nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0); > D > The way I read the doc, this call says, "Call the myAST() functionE > when something is written to the mailbox and no reader is present."o > H > myAST() is hit immediately (even though I *know* that NOTHING has beenH > written to the mailbox).  myAST() does a QIOW() on nmbx_chan using theF > IO$_READVBLK function code, and the call hangs indefinately, furtherH > proving that there is nothing in the mailbox!  So why is my AST hit asF > soon as I establish it for unsolicited writes to the mailbox, beforeD > anything is written to the mailbox?  I got the same results when I7 > tried with the READATTN function code just for kicks.l > 	 > Thanks.i   Sarah-  D probably you should post a short code example that demonstrates thisA problem, that is if you don't solve the problem while making said 
 code example.i   regardss   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  s  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of c! my employers or service provider.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:33:11 -0500$% From: Sarah Page <Sarah.Page@sas.com>CG Subject: Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Codew2 Message-ID: <SydPPIRH5YjSLrFBGtyiTMvRc84s@4ax.com>  0 Here's a code example.  By the way I have tried:  E 1) Putting the setmode write attention qiow() call AFTER I create thes& detached process but before I kill it.  F 2) Setting up the mailbox as read-only, since my process only needs to! read from it and not write to it.0   Both yielded the same results.     void myAST( short );   main() {D    long status;2    short nmbx_chan;o  <    status = SYS$CREMBX( 0, &nmbx_chan, 512, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 );&    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))1      printf( "Couldn't create mailbox nmbx.\n" );r    t>    /* Set up write attention on  the notify mailbox.  When theA      * detached process is deleted, it will write status info to  7      * the notify mailbox  and our AST will get called.e      */n  ?    status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN,e  5                                             0, myAST,h9                                             nmbx_chan, 0,t;                                             0, 0, 0, 0, 0);i  &    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))7       printf( "Setting up write attention failed.\n" );g  $    /* Immediately myAST() is hit. */  >    /* Omitted code to get the notify mailbox's unit number and      *  set up descriptors    . */X  ?    status = sys$creprc (&pid, &dsc$loginout, &dsc$input_mbx,   y<                                            &dsc$output_file,D                                            0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, (short)  F                                            nmbx_unit, PRC$M_DETACH, 0,  /                                            0 );d  %    if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS (status))u)       printf( "SYS$CREPRC() failed.\n" );   '    /* Kill the detached process now. */wA    /* This is when I expect my AST to get hit, once the kill call >      * is made and the detached process writes status info. to      * the notify mailbox.      */t&    printf( "Killing the process.\n" );"    status = SYS$DELPRC( &pid, 0 );&    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status )))       printf( "SYS$DELPRC() failed.\n" );o }u   void myAST( short nmbx_chan )n {c      long status;c    struct accdef NotifyMsg;      extern struct _iosb iosblock;      printf ("myAST() hit.\n");t  =    /* This call hangs since nothing's in the darn mailbox. */s  7    status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_READVBLK, 0, 0,-:                                             0, &NotifyMsg,F                                             sizeof (struct accdef), 0,  5                                             0, 0, 0);   (    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status )) {7       printf( "QIOW() read from nmbx_chan failed.\n" );E
       return;u    }	   return;    }s  / On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:19:54 GMT, Tim Llewellynr' <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:    >e >m >Sarah Page wrote: >>  I >> I create a temporary mailbox (nmbx_chan) and then immediately make the  >> following call: >> fF >> status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb,) >> &myAST,  nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0);t >>  E >> The way I read the doc, this call says, "Call the myAST() functionnF >> when something is written to the mailbox and no reader is present." >> oI >> myAST() is hit immediately (even though I *know* that NOTHING has been I >> written to the mailbox).  myAST() does a QIOW() on nmbx_chan using thetG >> IO$_READVBLK function code, and the call hangs indefinately, furthersI >> proving that there is nothing in the mailbox!  So why is my AST hit asnG >> soon as I establish it for unsolicited writes to the mailbox, beforefE >> anything is written to the mailbox?  I got the same results when Ih8 >> tried with the READATTN function code just for kicks. >> e
 >> Thanks. >f >Sarah >nE >probably you should post a short code example that demonstrates thishB >problem, that is if you don't solve the problem while making said >code example. >l >regards   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:32:12 -0500-  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>G Subject: Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Codes6 Message-ID: <1020123171635.29608E-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Sarah Page wrote:  H > I create a temporary mailbox (nmbx_chan) and then immediately make the > following call:  > E > status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb,s( > &myAST,  nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0); > D > The way I read the doc, this call says, "Call the myAST() functionE > when something is written to the mailbox and no reader is present."m > H > myAST() is hit immediately (even though I *know* that NOTHING has beenH > written to the mailbox).  myAST() does a QIOW() on nmbx_chan using theF > IO$_READVBLK function code, and the call hangs indefinately, furtherH > proving that there is nothing in the mailbox!  So why is my AST hit asF > soon as I establish it for unsolicited writes to the mailbox, beforeD > anything is written to the mailbox?  I got the same results when I7 > tried with the READATTN function code just for kicks.g > 	 > Thanks.l  @ The AST arg to sys$qio[w] is the completion AST for the i/o, not5 the attention AST that might ultimately be delivered.   = The completion AST is delivered as soon as the i/o completes.i; This happens synchronously, since you are doing a sys$qiow.e; Delivery of this AST just means the driver has received thec7 io$_setmode function and processed it (by setting up an   attention AST, but see below...)  ; You seem to be wanting myAST() to be the attention AST, nota: the completion AST, and you also seem to want nmbx_chan to; be the attention AST parameter.  These are passed as P1 andg8 P2 to the QIOW (you are passing 0's for both these.)  So you should be using:  C status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb,i& 0, 0, &myAST,  nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0);  6 If you want both a completion AST and an attention AST< (different routines, triggered under different circumstances9 which presumably do different things) then you would use:-  C status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb, = &myAST_comp,  nmbx_chan, &myAST_attn, nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0);w  > where myAST_comp() is the completion (of the QIOW) routine and& myAST_attn() is the attention routine.  : As someone else pointed out, be sure that any data that is= needed by an AST routine is statically allocated, or it could 9 be gone by the time the AST is triggered, and the routine'? could end up reading or writing random memory!  This especiallym: applies to IOSB's used with SYS$QIO (non-"W"), but also to? anything else, such as the channel number you are using for thea AST parameter.  = See Section 4.3.4 of the I/O User's Reference Manual (section-C cited is in the V7.3 manual; could be different in other versions.)a   Hope this helps.   -- n John Santos: Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:40:16 -0600uC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>vG Subject: Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Codew= Message-ID: <3C4F3BD0.1060004@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>p   Sarah Page wrote:/  2 > Here's a code example.  By the way I have tried: > > >    status = SYS$CREMBX( 0, &nmbx_chan, 512, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 );( >    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))3 >      printf( "Couldn't create mailbox nmbx.\n" );g >    r@ >    /* Set up write attention on  the notify mailbox.  When theC >      * detached process is deleted, it will write status info to n9 >      * the notify mailbox  and our AST will get called.a	 >      */  > A >    status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN,t > 7 >                                             0, myAST,o; >                                             nmbx_chan, 0,a= >                                             0, 0, 0, 0, 0);g > ( >    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))9 >       printf( "Setting up write attention failed.\n" );R    H For starters, you should always check the iosb as well as the completionH status -- you don't even give it an iosb. Without that, you don't really> know if the $qiow was successful. Below is an example from theG Apache/CSWS sources (from apache_creprc.c); those sources are availableAF somewhere on the Compaq site (don't have the URL handy at the moment),D and might well be worth reviewing since it sounds like you are doing something similar.         /*&     ** Establish a write attention AST     */     st = SYS$QIOW (0,e*                        TerminationMbxChan,2                        IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN,+                        &TerminationMbxIOSB,s                        0, 0,.                        (void*)exit_notify_ast,&                        0, 0, 0, 0, 0);     if (st & 1)A.         st = TerminationMbxIOSB.iosb$w_status;     if (! (st & 1))m     {S?         fprintf (stderr, "ERROR (0x%08X): Unable to establish "iE                 "write attention AST for termination mailbox\n", st);o          fsync (fileno (stderr));         return (-1);     }   E P.S. If the Apache code is correct, it looks like the exit completionL? AST is the p1 argument to $qiow, *not* the ordinary ast_routinehF argument, which simply indicates that the $qiow completed. This should' all be covered in the I/O User's Guide.w   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:31:22 GMTt4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>G Subject: Re: Problems with IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN I/O Function Code 0 Message-ID: <3C4F7F21.14ADEFD7@blueyonder.co.uk>   Sarah Page wrote:a > 2 > Here's a code example.  By the way I have tried: > G > 1) Putting the setmode write attention qiow() call AFTER I create the5( > detached process but before I kill it. > H > 2) Setting up the mailbox as read-only, since my process only needs to# > read from it and not write to it.. >   > Both yielded the same results.  Q I tried to compile this example and had errors for system servic definitions etc, Q which isn't what I'd call a self-contained example. However, now you have posted k3 others have made what seem like useful suggestions.e   all the best >  > void myAST( short ); >  > main() > {n >    long status;  >    short nmbx_chan;2 > > >    status = SYS$CREMBX( 0, &nmbx_chan, 512, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 );( >    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))3 >      printf( "Couldn't create mailbox nmbx.\n" );A > @ >    /* Set up write attention on  the notify mailbox.  When theB >      * detached process is deleted, it will write status info to9 >      * the notify mailbox  and our AST will get called.t	 >      */i > A >    status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN,A > 7 >                                             0, myAST,n; >                                             nmbx_chan, 0, = >                                             0, 0, 0, 0, 0);h > ( >    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))9 >       printf( "Setting up write attention failed.\n" );T > & >    /* Immediately myAST() is hit. */ > @ >    /* Omitted code to get the notify mailbox's unit number and >      *  set up descriptors	 >    . */i > > >    status = sys$creprc (&pid, &dsc$loginout, &dsc$input_mbx,> >                                            &dsc$output_file,F >                                            0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, (short) > H >                                            nmbx_unit, PRC$M_DETACH, 0, > 1 >                                            0 );R > ' >    if (!$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS (status))c+ >       printf( "SYS$CREPRC() failed.\n" );a > ) >    /* Kill the detached process now. */cC >    /* This is when I expect my AST to get hit, once the kill callo@ >      * is made and the detached process writes status info. to >      * the notify mailbox.	 >      */w( >    printf( "Killing the process.\n" );$ >    status = SYS$DELPRC( &pid, 0 );( >    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status ))+ >       printf( "SYS$DELPRC() failed.\n" );p > }  >  > void myAST( short nmbx_chan )  > {n >  >    long status;. >    struct accdef NotifyMsg;o" >    extern struct _iosb iosblock; >  >    printf ("myAST() hit.\n");o > ? >    /* This call hangs since nothing's in the darn mailbox. */: > 9 >    status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_READVBLK, 0, 0,R< >                                             0, &NotifyMsg,H >                                             sizeof (struct accdef), 0, > 7 >                                             0, 0, 0);N > * >    if( !$VMS_STATUS_SUCCESS( status )) {9 >       printf( "QIOW() read from nmbx_chan failed.\n" );  >       return;t >    } >   return;) >  > }r > 1 > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:19:54 GMT, Tim Llewellynt) > <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:g >  > >S > >g > >Sarah Page wrote: > >>K > >> I create a temporary mailbox (nmbx_chan) and then immediately make theh > >> following call: > >>H > >> status = SYS$QIOW (0, nmbx_chan, IO$_SETMODE | IO$M_WRTATTN, &iosb,+ > >> &myAST,  nmbx_chan, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0);n > >>G > >> The way I read the doc, this call says, "Call the myAST() functiongH > >> when something is written to the mailbox and no reader is present." > >>K > >> myAST() is hit immediately (even though I *know* that NOTHING has been:K > >> written to the mailbox).  myAST() does a QIOW() on nmbx_chan using the8I > >> IO$_READVBLK function code, and the call hangs indefinately, further K > >> proving that there is nothing in the mailbox!  So why is my AST hit as'I > >> soon as I establish it for unsolicited writes to the mailbox, beforetG > >> anything is written to the mailbox?  I got the same results when I-: > >> tried with the READATTN function code just for kicks. > >> > >> Thanks. > >m > >Sarah > >lG > >probably you should post a short code example that demonstrates thisPD > >problem, that is if you don't solve the problem while making said > >code example. > >t
 > >regards   -- w Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  0  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of ,! my employers or service provider.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:11:30 -0500e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  Subject: Re: Q on the phone dial6 Message-ID: <1020123170802.29608D-100000@Ives.egh.com>  , On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, Terry C. Shannon wrote:   > / > <Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com> wrote in message 6 > news:OFD9BF2D0F.96CAF644-ON00256B4A.005A83F2@btyp... > >n > > Really?b > >S! > > It's on '7' on all my phones.s > >s > > Are US phones different? > >m > J > One of my landline phones sports the Big Q on the keypad, the other does > not. > 9 > So much for Compaq's praises of Industry Standards, eh?   : Dilbert's company once had a "Big Q" quality program.  The< first product produced under the program was a new keyboard.  8 The keyboard was missing the key for the letter "Q".  No one had noticed...   -- D John Santos0 Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539 QT1-TO1-0OQ0 ext JDW   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:45:44 GMT / From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)|K Subject: Re: Q on the phone dial [was Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?]a8 Message-ID: <3c4f7554.89792810@news.directvinternet.com>  A If the phone was purchased a while ago (>5 years from my evidencenC here), there is no Q or Z.  Newer phones have Q on 7 and Z on 9.  IHE bought my house 6 years ago and two of the original phones (bought at_? Sears), do not have the additional letters.  My Uniden cordlessi4 purchased a few years ago does have all the letters.   Stevei  E On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:29:40 +0000, Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:w   >  >Really? >x >It's on '7' on all my phones. >t >Are US phones different?  >u >CheersI >  >Steve S >e >A >T >u< >David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> on 01/23/2002 04:00:21 PM >y! >To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml >cc:I >From:      David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>, 23 January 2002, 4:00 p.m.a >g% >Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?- >  >. >John Forkosh wrote: >>E >> I purchased Freeware 5 CD from them back on Sept 4, 2001, for $25.fI >> Call 1-800-DIGITAL (or 1-800-ATCOMPAQ, I can't recall which I dialed), + >> and ask for QA-6KZAA-H8.  Worked for me.  >a8 >One of my bigger pet peeves.  Since no telephone button8 >is labeled with a Q one cannot dial ATCOMPAQ.  I wonder& >if they own all numbers ATCOMPA[0-9]? >e	 >Regards,  >m
 >David Mathogy >mathog@caltech.eduP >i >t >s >o >wG >______________________________________________________________________r >  >l >[Information] -- PostMaster:oE >This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beiH >confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasH >been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,% >distribute or use this transmission.; > I >Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is H >not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have receivedL >this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >  >Thank you.  >lE >Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.,< >Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228. > J >Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,E >RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.0 >) >    Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MA  StevenU@POBoxes.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:54:53 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> K Subject: Re: Q on the phone dial [was Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?]p' Message-ID: <3C4F7890.267DA8BA@fsi.net>   ! Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com wrote:  > 	 > Really?f >  > It's on '7' on all my phones.  >  > Are US phones different? >  > Cheers > 	 > Steve S  > = > David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> on 01/23/2002 04:00:21 PM  > " > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:SJ > From:      David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>, 23 January 2002, 4:00 p.m. > & > Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale? >  > John Forkosh wrote:A > > F > > I purchased Freeware 5 CD from them back on Sept 4, 2001, for $25.J > > Call 1-800-DIGITAL (or 1-800-ATCOMPAQ, I can't recall which I dialed),, > > and ask for QA-6KZAA-H8.  Worked for me. > 9 > One of my bigger pet peeves.  Since no telephone buttonn9 > is labeled with a Q one cannot dial ATCOMPAQ.  I wonderm' > if they own all numbers ATCOMPA[0-9]?r  7 Hhmmm... Just like mine - must be "legacy" phones, huh?    -- t David J. Dachtera) dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/K   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 11:55:01 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)i  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231155.7e10753b@posting.google.com>S  ` "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E328E.31E2E9AA@fsi.net>... > Glenn Everhart wrote:s > > F > > The hobbyist licenses do NOT make it illegal to take your favoriteN > > app and port it to VMS. This is perfectly legal, just so you aren't making > > money off it.n > > M > > Reasonable enough: if you want to do something for money, pay for the VMS_
 > > licenses.D > F > ...which brings us bakc to the whole affordability issue, yet again.  M Then your company will fail.  If you can't afford $995 to develop on OpenVMS,oD you don't even have enough starting capital to meet your first weeksI payroll.  Not only that, but even if you did manage to produce a product,>J you couldn't afford to market it.  You seem to think that marketing is theG only successful way to sell a software product, so how are you going to> manage to survive with out it?  H > To me as well - for hobbyists. For ISVs, well, ... we're left wanting, > to say less than the least.b  < *You're* left wanting.  Don't pretent to talk for all ISV's.  K Honestly, David, show me a business plan for a successful software business 4 that can't afford an IT budget of $995 for software?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:10:21 -0500t  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license6 Message-ID: <1020123154309.29608B-100000@Ives.egh.com>  & On 23 Jan 2002, David L. Cathey wrote:  b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E328E.31E2E9AA@fsi.net>... > > Glenn Everhart wrote:e > > > H > > > The hobbyist licenses do NOT make it illegal to take your favoriteP > > > app and port it to VMS. This is perfectly legal, just so you aren't making > > > money off it.a > > > O > > > Reasonable enough: if you want to do something for money, pay for the VMSh > > > licenses.d > > H > > ...which brings us bakc to the whole affordability issue, yet again. > O > Then your company will fail.  If you can't afford $995 to develop on OpenVMS, F > you don't even have enough starting capital to meet your first weeksK > payroll.  Not only that, but even if you did manage to produce a product,hL > you couldn't afford to market it.  You seem to think that marketing is theI > only successful way to sell a software product, so how are you going tot  > manage to survive with out it?  . David C:  I pretty much agree with you, but...  H The $995 is wrong.  Unlike the hobbyist program, CSA doesn't include theC base VMS license, so you need to buy a licensed system or acquire atG base license from Compaq.  (CSA does include a discount on new hardwarenA and software, so I think you can get a base license for less thanhC normal retail.)  Still at least $500-600 in addition to joining CSA D and buying the VMS SDK subscription.  That price is, IIRC for a veryD small workstation class system, and it is per system, unlike the CSA@ licenses which can be used on any number of development and demo systems.  C Many startups don't have *any* payroll.  The founders work on spec,eG living off their savings (or working another job), until they can sell eB something.   They also work out of a garage or basement (no officeA rental) etc.  Still there are lots of other expenses - utilities, A promotion, travel to clients' sites (or hosting clients' visits),dE office supplies, postage, xeroxing, and for a software company you'llm* probably need an Internet connection, etc.  ? I think you'll need a *lot* more than $1000-$2000, (even if you&> could buy a minimal VMS system with licenses that seems to be < David D.'s goal for that price) to start a business.  Enough< more that the $1000 for a CSA license (joining, annual fees,; SDKs), plus $2000-$3000 for a LICENSED, used Alpha won't be 
 the obstacle.i  J > > To me as well - for hobbyists. For ISVs, well, ... we're left wanting, > > to say less than the least.r > > > *You're* left wanting.  Don't pretent to talk for all ISV's. > M > Honestly, David, show me a business plan for a successful software businesse6 > that can't afford an IT budget of $995 for software?  = There's another startup situation where you can't use the CSAh9 program...  You have an idea of a service you can sell oro< something you can manufacture that requires a computer.  You; need to write a bunch of software to make it work (it's not = off-the-shelf; if it were, lots of other people would already"9 be doing this, or maybe the market's not that big), so to:9 get started, you need to buy a computer, maybe build somew: hardware, spend a few months to a few people-years coding,> and then you have something to sell.  Since you aren't selling? your code, you can't use CSA to develop it.  (Or can you?  This2; is a big open question about CSA.  It has been asked before 7 on c.o.v, but I don't think it has ever been answered.)   : I probably shouldn't complain about this though.  It gives9 my company a slight advantage selling apps in competition 2 with our potential customers' internal developers.   -- w John Santosd (Not speaking for my company.)   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 13:36:27 -0800" From: VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan)  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license= Message-ID: <d0a53e6e.0201231336.78bce974@posting.google.com>   p davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) wrote in message news:<e565ed03.0201231155.7e10753b@posting.google.com>...1 > If you can't afford $995 to develop on OpenVMS, - > you don't even have enough starting capitalp  C Compare that to the entry cost for a Linux developer: $79 or so for'F Red Hat Linux Professional in a nice box, including all the compilers,F networking, and so forth, with full source code for everything, and noF limits on how many machines you can install it on, or what you can use  it for (commercial or hobbyist).  D That's where things stand right now in the competition for developer
 mindshare. ---a2 VMS: "Rumors of my death are greatly exacerbated."   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:19:32 -0600 (CST)| From: sms@antinode.org  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license) Message-ID: <02012315193191@antinode.org>     From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>  J > The $995 is wrong.  Unlike the hobbyist program, CSA doesn't include the > base VMS license, [...];# > [... long explanation of why ...]   D    Ignoring all the valid but complicated reasons, I'll get this out> (again) one time, and try then to put it away until next year.  F    What does Sun charge?  What does IBM charge?  I believe you'll find6 the answer to be zero.  I don't _need_ to explain why.  C    I had persuaded myself to stuff a sock in it and just delete therE message and move on, but at the critical moment I got another card inlC the mail from Sun promoting their "NT to Solaris Migration Program"-B ("www.sun.com/migration/NT/202"), and it pushed me over the edge. A (Sometimes I just have a Popeye moment and lose control.  Sorry.)E  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)yC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)aG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work))9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 17:53:09 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)m  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231753.6b4b0770@posting.google.com>d  G sms@antinode.org wrote in message news:<02012315193191@antinode.org>...s" > From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> > L > > The $995 is wrong.  Unlike the hobbyist program, CSA doesn't include the > > base VMS license, [...]Y% > > [... long explanation of why ...]0 > F >    Ignoring all the valid but complicated reasons, I'll get this out@ > (again) one time, and try then to put it away until next year. > H >    What does Sun charge?  What does IBM charge?  I believe you'll find8 > the answer to be zero.  I don't _need_ to explain why. > E >    I had persuaded myself to stuff a sock in it and just delete thenG > message and move on, but at the critical moment I got another card in E > the mail from Sun promoting their "NT to Solaris Migration Program"cD > ("www.sun.com/migration/NT/202"), and it pushed me over the edge. C > (Sometimes I just have a Popeye moment and lose control.  Sorry.)t  @ 	Well, after looking a little while, I couldn't see how much anyE of it cost, but you have to make a few hurdles before you can qualifyiK to get hardware/software discounts (at least Basic Member).  For a startup,$H you can't qualify - you have to be in business for some number of years.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 18:14:13 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)   Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231814.6bab9d5d@posting.google.com>   g VMSfan@hotmail.com (VMS Fan) wrote in message news:<d0a53e6e.0201231336.78bce974@posting.google.com>...lr > davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) wrote in message news:<e565ed03.0201231155.7e10753b@posting.google.com>...3 > > If you can't afford $995 to develop on OpenVMS,s/ > > you don't even have enough starting capitall > E > Compare that to the entry cost for a Linux developer: $79 or so forYH > Red Hat Linux Professional in a nice box, including all the compilers,H > networking, and so forth, with full source code for everything, and noH > limits on how many machines you can install it on, or what you can use" > it for (commercial or hobbyist). > F > That's where things stand right now in the competition for developer > mindshare.  G 	I can beat that price - download Linux off the net for free, including J all the same apps and toys.  You can't price compare anything to Linux, atN least apples to apples.  You can't compete with free.  Of course, if somethingA goes wrong, you don't have vendor to scream at to fix it, either._  B 	Like any other developer program, a Linux system lets you developF Linux applications.  To move them to another platfrom, you have to get# SDK's/etc for that target platform.w  A 	That being said, there's nothing wrong with developing ON Linux, 0 then porting to OpenVMS/etc at time-of-market...  C 	(Don't get me wrong, I really like Linux and have been having lotsl3 of fun with it.  And it's a non-Microsoft product!)E   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 20:31:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)a  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license3 Message-ID: <JtZCx7LOmUpR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   B In article <02012315193191@antinode.org>, sms@antinode.org writes:" > From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> > K >> The $995 is wrong.  Unlike the hobbyist program, CSA doesn't include the  >> base VMS license, [...]$ >> [... long explanation of why ...] > F >    Ignoring all the valid but complicated reasons, I'll get this out@ > (again) one time, and try then to put it away until next year. > H >    What does Sun charge?  What does IBM charge?  I believe you'll find8 > the answer to be zero.  I don't _need_ to explain why.  ) In my experience with developer programs:   7 Sun charges something, but is unwilling to communicate.p  F IBM loans you the software for free if you can afford the MVS machine., You even get VSE and VM as part of the deal.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:37:53 GMTi1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>,  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license' Message-ID: <3C4F7492.F98012DB@fsi.net>a   "David L. Cathey" wrote: > b > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E328E.31E2E9AA@fsi.net>... > > Glenn Everhart wrote:> > > >WH > > > The hobbyist licenses do NOT make it illegal to take your favoriteP > > > app and port it to VMS. This is perfectly legal, just so you aren't making > > > money off it.S > > >tO > > > Reasonable enough: if you want to do something for money, pay for the VMS  > > > licenses.o > >pH > > ...which brings us bakc to the whole affordability issue, yet again. > O > Then your company will fail.  If you can't afford $995 to develop on OpenVMS,a  E *SIGH* Been along time since you were broke and struggling, huh Dave?y  F > you don't even have enough starting capital to meet your first weeksK > payroll.  Not only that, but even if you did manage to produce a product,0$ > you couldn't afford to market it.   A *HEAVY SIGH* Been a long time since conditions forced you to "getr creative", too, huh?  C Y'know, way back when we first encountered each other, I had a long:E e-mail exchange with John W. where in I suggested (at least I think IeE sent that one, I may not have and just kept it in my "drafts" folder)oE that he "walk a mile in my shoes": take a furlough from his "day job"dH and live life through my eyes. The idea being that once he saw the worldE from my perspective, he'd be less inclined to dismiss my concerns andl! more inclined to appreciate them.s  H I might suggest the same to you. Come to Chicago (or Minneapolis, or anyE of several other markets where the job market for VMS is history) and H see how well you can survive on, oh say, two months severance pay or so.H Your experience to date will give you an edge over me, but I still think7 you'll find going a bit rougher than you might imagine.   ) > You seem to think that marketing is therI > only successful way to sell a software product, so how are you going toh  > manage to survive with out it?  G As another poster so eloquently put it, "marketing" includes such itemsIF as packaging, and yes, *PRICING*!!!, *AND* advertising, merchandising,E ... It's a menu. Sure, you can order one of everything, but better ton6 take just what you need minimally to get the job done.  J > > To me as well - for hobbyists. For ISVs, well, ... we're left wanting, > > to say less than the least.a > > > *You're* left wanting.  Don't pretent to talk for all ISV's.  D Never said I did. I speak only for myself and on behalf of the ISVs,= VARs, OEMs, etc. locally with whom I have had direct contact.)  M > Honestly, David, show me a business plan for a successful software businesse6 > that can't afford an IT budget of $995 for software?  E Let's see now: the choice is between buying an OpenVMS+SDK package orvH paying the mortgage. Which would *YOU* choose: keeping the bank happy or9 making Compaq happy? (Remember: you can choose only one!)    -- d David J. Dachteran dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 18:05:55 -0800+ From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)a  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license= Message-ID: <e565ed03.0201231805.5ab5411a@posting.google.com>a  ^ John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> wrote in message news:<1020123154309.29608B-100000@Ives.egh.com>...( > On 23 Jan 2002, David L. Cathey wrote: > d > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message news:<3C4E328E.31E2E9AA@fsi.net>... > > > Glenn Everhart wrote:e > > > > J > > > > The hobbyist licenses do NOT make it illegal to take your favoriteR > > > > app and port it to VMS. This is perfectly legal, just so you aren't making > > > > money off it.i > > > > Q > > > > Reasonable enough: if you want to do something for money, pay for the VMS  > > > > licenses.  > > > J > > > ...which brings us bakc to the whole affordability issue, yet again. > > Q > > Then your company will fail.  If you can't afford $995 to develop on OpenVMS,FH > > you don't even have enough starting capital to meet your first weeksM > > payroll.  Not only that, but even if you did manage to produce a product,hN > > you couldn't afford to market it.  You seem to think that marketing is theK > > only successful way to sell a software product, so how are you going tot" > > manage to survive with out it? > 0 > David C:  I pretty much agree with you, but... > J > The $995 is wrong.  Unlike the hobbyist program, CSA doesn't include theE > base VMS license, so you need to buy a licensed system or acquire a:I > base license from Compaq.  (CSA does include a discount on new hardwareeC > and software, so I think you can get a base license for less thanhE > normal retail.)  Still at least $500-600 in addition to joining CSA5F > and buying the VMS SDK subscription.  That price is, IIRC for a veryF > small workstation class system, and it is per system, unlike the CSAB > licenses which can be used on any number of development and demo
 > systems.  ? 	Actually, it's a little different, let's draw it all out.  ThesN CSA Program cost is about $500/year, I think.  That includes hardware/softwareC discounts of up to 50% of standard list, access to porting centers, B listing and marketing support (which helps), potential booth spaceG at Partner Pavilions at shows Compaq attends, and several other benies.n  D 	$495 of that is for the Alpha SDK, which gets you the same licensesG as the OpenVMS Hobbyist Program (actually, the OpenVMS Hobbyist ProgramaL gets you the CSA license list...) including over 100 software products, plus0 4 software product library CD sets for the year.  @ 	An Alphastation 200 4/233 base license is $400, or if you get aE transfer of license for a pre-licensed box someone else has, you can , transfer it for about $300.t  E > Many startups don't have *any* payroll.  The founders work on spec,eI > living off their savings (or working another job), until they can sell hD > something.   They also work out of a garage or basement (no officeC > rental) etc.  Still there are lots of other expenses - utilities,SC > promotion, travel to clients' sites (or hosting clients' visits),1G > office supplies, postage, xeroxing, and for a software company you'lle, > probably need an Internet connection, etc. > A > I think you'll need a *lot* more than $1000-$2000, (even if youl@ > could buy a minimal VMS system with licenses that seems to be > > David D.'s goal for that price) to start a business.  Enough> > more that the $1000 for a CSA license (joining, annual fees,= > SDKs), plus $2000-$3000 for a LICENSED, used Alpha won't beo > the obstacle.n  9 	When I got my first VAX, the VMS License cost over $1000iB and I used the GNU C compiler for development.  I got the VAX for < free.  If $1000 is an obstacle for your to get into softwareD development - using ANY platform - you need to rethink your business plan...w  ? > There's another startup situation where you can't use the CSAu; > program...  You have an idea of a service you can sell or > > something you can manufacture that requires a computer.  You= > need to write a bunch of software to make it work (it's not ? > off-the-shelf; if it were, lots of other people would already ; > be doing this, or maybe the market's not that big), so toi; > get started, you need to buy a computer, maybe build somey< > hardware, spend a few months to a few people-years coding,@ > and then you have something to sell.  Since you aren't sellingA > your code, you can't use CSA to develop it.  (Or can you?  This5= > is a big open question about CSA.  It has been asked beforec9 > on c.o.v, but I don't think it has ever been answered.)   3 	Assuming that, even paying full-freight for a basee= license, C compiler (per seat!), and a used Alpha can get youy: started for not much more than $1000 as well.  Then you're? not under the CSA restrictions, and go for it.  If your productj= is successful, $1000 shouldn't be anything to your budget anda+ STILL cheaper than a PC with Visual Studio.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:03:24 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i  Subject: Re: Re hobbyist license' Message-ID: <3C4F7A8F.90102A49@fsi.net>y   "David L. Cathey" wrote: > I > sms@antinode.org wrote in message news:<02012315193191@antinode.org>...l$ > > From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> > >aN > > > The $995 is wrong.  Unlike the hobbyist program, CSA doesn't include the > > > base VMS license, [...]e' > > > [... long explanation of why ...]2 > >3H > >    Ignoring all the valid but complicated reasons, I'll get this outB > > (again) one time, and try then to put it away until next year. > >lJ > >    What does Sun charge?  What does IBM charge?  I believe you'll find: > > the answer to be zero.  I don't _need_ to explain why. > >aG > >    I had persuaded myself to stuff a sock in it and just delete thefI > > message and move on, but at the critical moment I got another card inSG > > the mail from Sun promoting their "NT to Solaris Migration Program" E > > ("www.sun.com/migration/NT/202"), and it pushed me over the edge.cE > > (Sometimes I just have a Popeye moment and lose control.  Sorry.)t > I >         Well, after looking a little while, I couldn't see how much any G > of it cost, but you have to make a few hurdles before you can qualify M > to get hardware/software discounts (at least Basic Member).  For a startup,oJ > you can't qualify - you have to be in business for some number of years.  G So, in order to be an OpenVMS ISV you must first be an OpenVMS ISV; but C you can't be an OpenVMS ISV unless you're already an OpenVMS ISV...e  - ...and you wonder why we're complaining???!!!s   -- . David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:56:54 GMT + From: Jeff Campbell <jcampbell@ins-msi.com>n1 Subject: Re: Samba frustrations on reboot... fix!c+ Message-ID: <3C4F992F.2CDD7E99@ins-msi.com>7   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:i >  > [posted to comp.os.vms also]J > I usually define the rooted logical names in the SYLOGICALS.COM phase of3 > the boot.  Of course that just hides the problem.o  H The SYLOGICALS workaround is not necessary. TCPIP's native services haveG known default devices and directories. SAMBA_STARTUP.COM is a perfectlyiE normal place to define the SMBD specific logicals. The problem ariseslK because, during installation, the UCX SET CONFIGURATION ENABLE SERVICE SMBDtI command is executed. If this command were not ever executed UCX would notw1 attempt to automatically enable the SMBD service.d   > G > When putting things in the system startup with multiple dependencies, " > all sorts of problems can occur. > I > The dissapearing batch jobs on reboot is another such problem.  In thisRJ > case the batch job starts running before the resources that it uses have' > been set up, like a database service.i > H > With SAMBA, the issue is that the logical names, and images need to beF > installed before the TCP/IP program is started, but the NMBD process6 > must be started after the TCP/IP program is started.  E I disagree with the notion that SAMBA must be defined to TCPIP beforesC TCPIP starts. TCPIP will accept service definitions after it is up.rG Services need be defined only once. TCPIP's configuration database will 8 retain the service's parameters across subsequent boots.  F The automatic enabling of a service is a separate issue. My preferenceJ is to localize all site specific startup configuration things in somethingE like (my) SITE_STARTUP.COM, rather than have stuff scattered about inP3 several command files. LAT setup comes to mind. 8-)-  F I do not know MultiNet, TCPWare, etc., so I don't know how they handle the situation.   > F > So there are some things to consider on getting this right.  It alsoJ > looks like a future version of SAMBA would need to have the NMBD process8 > started as a TCPIP service, so that might simplify it.  F Control of enabling SMBD and a possible NMBD should, in my opinion, beJ left to the site specific startup procedure. TCPIP gives us both methods -B TCPIP SET CONFIGURATION ENABLE SERVICE xxx enables the xxx serviceH automatically, and a TCPIP ENABLE SERVICE xxx after TCPIP starts enablesJ the xxx service 'manually'. In either case the installation of SAMBA needsH only to define the SMBD service to TCPIP. The installation does not have2 to make enabling the service at startup automatic.   > J > On many systems the network protocol stacks must be started really early7 > in the boot process because so much may depend on it.t   DECNET?  8-)   >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network > Personal Opinion OnlyI  
 Jeff Campbelli n8wxs@arrl.net   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 18:11:57 -0800. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)( Subject: Re: setting the record straight= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0201231811.6dd1554f@posting.google.com>n  Y JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C4E2E7D.88DB343B@videotron.ca>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:I > > In fact, since Compaq seems to want abandon VMS anyway, a strategy torA > > reduce their VMS sales is actually helping them achieve theiru3 > > objective! So why all the arguing with them?(!)f > > 7 > > If you want more trees, you don't set them on fire.  > P > Compaq needs the VMS revenus to continue for some time. It takes the VMS loyalO > customer base for granted and expects them to blindly continue to pay for VMS  > no matter what.  > P > In 2000, when VMS sales were in negative growth, the option was to kill VMS or& > give it a small boost (renaissance). > O > Compaq needs to learn that it must market VMS to keep the revenus and that itoM > cannot take VMS customers for granted.  If nobody complained about Compaq's6N > handling of VMS, Compaq would just continue to cut down the trees one by one( > until the forest was completely gone.   C You say that Compaq "expects [customers] to blindly continue to payrA for VMS no matter what." Then you say that left alone, they would B begin cutting the trees down one by one. But you say they need the@ revenues for some time to come. So why are they cutting down the+ trees? The three statements don't gel well.u  F So you "force" Compaq to market VMS. They'll only market it to produceB the amount of VMS sites they want, which they would have anyway ifE they weren't forced to market it, because as soon as they have enoughlF VMS sites, they'll stop marketing. This maintains the status quo while@ annoying Compaq thereby hardening Compaq against us. How is that1 helpful? Reducing Compaq Wintel sales would help.o  ? Also, I must admit I haven't read *all* (I've read some) of the,F thousands of posts on this topic -- I simply don't have the time, so IE don't even know *exactly* what the argued-about plans are! (Feel free  to enlighten me to them.)   M > But with complaints, Gorham and Marcello *can* go to Marcello and warn themmP > about the potential for a firest fire that would  destroy the forest much moreK > quickly than Compaq had anticipated, depriving Compaq from the revenus it-N > needs to subsidize it PC stuff. That should be enough to get Compaq to agree > to some additional marketing.b  D What kind of complaints? Complaints that we in c.o.v. think there isD insufficient marketing? Why would Compaq care about such complaints?F How does that allow Gorham and Marcello to warn about fires? (I admit,B as I said above, I don't know the exact plan of these complaints.)  L > If Neither Gorham nor Marcello have the guts to talk to whomever pulls theO > strings at Compaq, then the other solution is to start a forest fire and onceaM > it is bright enough, Capellas will see it and then will be forced to act tol> > protect the remaining forest to preserve the needed revenus.M > That is essentially what happened in 2000 with the short lived renaissance.n  : So we can spare Compaq the trouble of killing VMS itself?   D And here, the result is a self-induced wound with only the remainingE forest protected making it easier to kill off the forest more quickly2D later. I don't see how that helps. The longer we can keep a sizeableA VMS presence, the more time there will be, and therefore the more0D likely there will be something that turns events in our favor. Also,1 large fires are notoriously difficult to put out.3  B I'm sorry, but I just don't see the sense in burning our own trees> just to make a point. Imagine if environmentalists went aroundF starting forest fires so as to warn us about losing our trees. Imagine  what people would think of them!  M > Capellas needs to be reminded that the fire is still smoldering and that ith# > still can't take VMS for granted..  F Again with the "for granted". So what? In one sense, that's actually a< compliment! VMS sells itself! Anyway, all I care is that VMS experiences growth.S  = The whole thing about VMS not being promoted properly is juste mind-boggling to me.  A Customer (well, at least some customers): "We want to upgrade andoD expand our VMS Alpha systems and continue to pay good money for it."  @ COMPAQ: "No, we want you to switch from our high quality, highly? profitable products to our wonderful, low quality, money-losing 	 garbage!"e  ( How does one deal with such a mentality?   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmane afeldman;gfigroup.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:46:03 GMTf4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: Re: setting the record straight< Message-ID: <LzK38.3005$%h1.1124622@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messagee7 news:b096a4ee.0201231811.6dd1554f@posting.google.com...u >s <snip>  ? > The whole thing about VMS not being promoted properly is justr > mind-boggling to me.  I Indeed it is. The thing is, there are people within Compaq--at reasonablymI high levels, I might add--who believe that the firm *is* doing a good jobv promoting VMS.   >iC > Customer (well, at least some customers): "We want to upgrade and F > expand our VMS Alpha systems and continue to pay good money for it." >aB > COMPAQ: "No, we want you to switch from our high quality, highlyA > profitable products to our wonderful, low quality, money-losings > garbage!"s >c* > How does one deal with such a mentality? >g  D From what I have seen such a mentality does not exist within OpenVMSI engineering and sales.  I doubt that Mark Gorham would look too kindly on H any of his ambassadors who urged a VMS customer to downgrade to Windoze.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:25:07 -0500t% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>d( Subject: Re: setting the record straight+ Message-ID: <3C4F9AB2.7A88773@videotron.ca>t   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:F > What kind of complaints? Complaints that we in c.o.v. think there isF > insufficient marketing? Why would Compaq care about such complaints?    H Because these complaints originate because one of the "whiner" is in theM process of witnessing a VMS customer deciding that VMS will be phased out andCL they can tell this group of the reasoning and decision making process inside( their company that lead to the decision.  N In such cases, Compaq would not be aware of that decision for many years untilM the the last maintenance contract is not renewed. And I am not even sure thatcN internally Compaq maintains statistics on VMS attrition. We know that they areN aware of sales of systems, but they don't seem to be aware of customers moving away from VMS.  H (This is why I am not sure that the 411,000 number provided by Compaq isI entirely credible because tyey do not qualify how that number is derived.t  K Even before Compaq, I witnessed vast differences in salesforce attitudes at H Digital. London (Ontario) and Vancouver seemed to have pretty keen salesC forces and I kept hearing stories of how a customer could ask for ajM presentation on a product and Digital would bring in the product manager fromeI headquarters in Mass. for a presentation. Yet, when I wanted to present aeM potential VMS based EDI solution to a bank in Montreal, (they were looking at F one because the solution presented by IBM didn't work), I couldn't getJ anywhere (even though I had given the salescritter the name of the product. manager whom I had met at a DECUS conference).  J And when I wanted to convince the IBM folks of the value of the DECNET-SNAM gateway to link my vaxes to their mainframes, I asked again for a real expertuK on the product who would be making a presentation to the SNA experts on thevN IBM side of things. The sales critter did arrange for a presentation and I hadH my hopes up and had told people that finally Digital would start to makeL serious stuff. Alas, a local guy showed up and he knew nothing about SNA andF his presentation was a total let down. And they forced us to pay theirL services to install the software. The guy who came in didn't bother checkingL for patches etc and he installed software that allowed the VAX to delete allL datasets on the mainframe. 	I had worked for 6 months internally to convinceM them to go with that solution and I looked like a stupid idiot when that flaw N was found. I called telephone support and the decnet-sna support folks told meK that the DEC guy should have known about the patch because it was extremelyiI important. (he downloaded it to my vax at home by modem, and I then cut asK TK50, brought it to the bank, transfered it to 9 track tape and then loadedpM the patch on the IBM mainframe).  IBM service would have had a local guy make N the tape and RUN to the customer to deliver the patch within an hour if such a thing had happened.   L My conclusion is that Digital was succesful in certain cities and a big jokeF in other cities. I happened to live in a city where it was a big joke.  E Perhaps that might explain that some still live in paradise and don'te> understand why others are/have lived the rapid decline of VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:33:32 -0600yC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>i( Subject: Re: setting the record straight= Message-ID: <3C4F9CAC.1050408@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com>   [ > JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C4E2E7D.88DB343B@videotron.ca>...i    7 >>In 2000, when VMS sales were in negative growth . . .l    @ My undergraduate career in mathematics was sadly cut short afterH three-dimensional calculus because I was spending too much time thinkingF about literature, history, religion, and, um, other romantic subjects.G So, for those who stayed the course, exactly which branch of modern (org9 postmodern) mathematics would describe +9% as "negative"?a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:39:03 GMT-* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>( Subject: Re: setting the record straightA Message-ID: <X5N38.85247$QB1.6113834@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   ; "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messaget7 news:b096a4ee.0201231811.6dd1554f@posting.google.com...N2 > JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message( news:<3C4E2E7D.88DB343B@videotron.ca>...   ...   E > You say that Compaq "expects [customers] to blindly continue to payaC > for VMS no matter what." Then you say that left alone, they would D > begin cutting the trees down one by one. But you say they need theB > revenues for some time to come. So why are they cutting down the- > trees? The three statements don't gel well.i  J There's nothing wrong with the statements:  they're accurate.  But you areK correct that Compaq's *actions* don't make much sense:  that's the problem.    ...n  A > Also, I must admit I haven't read *all* (I've read some) of thetH > thousands of posts on this topic -- I simply don't have the time, so IG > don't even know *exactly* what the argued-about plans are! (Feel freea > to enlighten me to them.)   H Some people might be inclined to read enough of the existing material toH have a clue before presuming to jump into an on-going discussion, ratherK than ask others to go to the effort of condensing it for their convenience.    ...e  ? > The whole thing about VMS not being promoted properly is juste > mind-boggling to me. >dC > Customer (well, at least some customers): "We want to upgrade and3F > expand our VMS Alpha systems and continue to pay good money for it." >RB > COMPAQ: "No, we want you to switch from our high quality, highlyA > profitable products to our wonderful, low quality, money-losing< > garbage!"1 >t* > How does one deal with such a mentality?  G One attempts to get those responsible for it replaced by more competentd individuals.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:46:57 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>i( Subject: Re: setting the record straight, Message-ID: <3C4FADDA.51FC09D8@videotron.ca>   "Craig A. Berry" wrote:WI > So, for those who stayed the course, exactly which branch of modern (or ; > postmodern) mathematics would describe +9% as "negative"?     N OK then it would have bveen 1999 numbers if 2000 was the one with the positiveG growth reflecting the mild renaissance. But I do know that prior to thel, renaissance, it was negative growth for VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:21:56 GMTe* From: "Foobar T. Clown" <fubar@gazonk.del>G Subject: SIN  Was: Younger recruits versus... was: The demise of compaqn* Message-ID: <3C4F7DEC.443CDDB9@gazonk.del>   William Hamblen wrote: > @ > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:02:28 -0500, shannon@news.widomaker.com" > (Charles Shannon Hendrix) wrote: > C > >What was the lines in some computer manuals from Britain talkings2 > >about "chips that pass in the night" all about? > 0 > "Ships that Pass in the Night" is a poem.  ...    H The command line interface for a certain manufacturer's network switchesF permits line cards to be configured for SIN (Ships In the Night) mode.@ SIN mode allows a single fiber to carry packets belonging to twoG different layer 2 protocols at the same time, but it does not allow any-E interaction between the two different protocol families.  The packetsj) pass one another like ships in the night.f   -- Foo!    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:49:10 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>@ Subject: SKC/openvms.org IPF Consolidation Survey Results Posted; Message-ID: <G5H38.2762$%h1.960355@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>l  H A summary of the IPF Consolidation Follow-Up Survey is now available for: your reading pleasure at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.org       -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.a, Northern Delegate, DFWCUG Steering Committee  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net2 Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:11:10 +0100g1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> = Subject: Re: Vegemite (was RE: Younger recruits blahblahblah)t5 Message-ID: <3C4FA57E.661FA9E8@swissonline.delete.ch>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:n > 9 > "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ) > news:0033000048929747000002L072*@MHS...  >  > Egad! " > From Kraft.com I find a link to: >  > http://www.vegemite.com.au/  >  > WWWebb > E > For sure you are a contender for the Happy Little Vegemites Awards,t? > information on which is available at the referenced site. ;-}o    @ As a native of the place I can tell you that Vegemite is made inG Melbourne, Australia by Kraft but IIRC they bought the previous company D (Sanitarium ?) and "inherited" Vegemite rather than developed it.  I8 believe Vegemite has been around since about 1920 or 30.  H One of the major ingredients is reported to be the yeast by-product fromE Carlton & United breweries, coming of course from the various beers. sE Every time someone drinks a Fosters - don't like it myself, Melbourne-C Bitter is better - they are contributing to the supply of Vegemite.a     John McLeano   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2002 21:28:22 GMT= From: jlw@psulias.psu.edu (j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818) # Subject: Re: Veritas Client for VMSs+ Message-ID: <a2n9tm$dug@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>   U In article <u4jiea5ne6v95e@corp.supernews.com>, "Nobody" <nowhere@nobody.com> writes:e
 >Hi everyone,u >rI >I am tasked with testing the Veritas Client for VMS and I was wondering:I >x, >- Has anyone had success implementing this?  D 	PRESUMING you mean the client for NetBackup, v3.2, yes.  Works with 	Veritas NetBackup v3.4, too.i  * >- What kind of gotchas have you run into?  ? 	Kinda SLOW.  But then anything but the unix boxes seem kind ofbE 	slow (WinNT, Netware, OpenVMS).  No resolution on this yet.  VeritaswE 	can't explain it except they say part of the problem is full vs half  	duplex on the NICs.  H >- Have you had problems restoring data during a data recovery exercise?  8 	None yet.  Have not had a DISASTER to recover from yet.  G >- Have you tried using the freeware VMS TAR to recover data from tape?k   	No.  M +-"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+bN | J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance")            InterNet:  Lance.Wilkinson@psu.edu | M | Systems Design Specialist - Lead       AT&T:      (814) 865-1818          |mM | Library Computing Services             FAX:       (814) 863-3560          |eM | E3 Paterno Library                     "I'd rather be dancing..."         | M | Penn State University         A host is a host from coast to coast,       |eM | University Park, PA 16802     And no one will talk to a host that's close |eM | <postmaster@psulias.psu.edu>  Unless the host that isn't close            | M | VMS GopherMeister             Is busy, hung or dead.                      |eM +------"He's dead, Jim. I'll get his tricorder. You take his wallet."-------+ 9                 [apologies to DeForest Kelley, 1920-1999]t3 <A Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu">home page</a>  J <a Href="http://perdita.lcs.psu.edu/junkdec.htm">junk mail declaration</a>   --	       /"\ #       \ /     ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGNt!        X        AGAINST HTML MAIL 	       / \w   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:39:19 GMTl From: dittman@dittman.net - Subject: Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?t9 Message-ID: <HjE38.127$rv4.156623@paloalto-snr2.gtei.net>u   system@sendspamhere.org wrote:h : In article <3C4E3176.BDAB78E5@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes: :>William Barnett-Lewis wrote: :>> G :>> Sorry if  this is off topic, but this seemed the best place to ask.  :>> J :>> For simplicity, I'd like to have a copy of one of the Freeware CDROMs. :>> Unfortunately, according tooF :>> http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/index.html it's notG :>> available separate from the full cost media kit. Does anyone have ae# :>> spare they'd care to part with?a :>> E :>Why not just download what you need from the net?  I don't have thesH :>freeware CD so I just get what I need from there.  Just as easy.   AndJ :>if you are really wanted a CD, just burn your own.  Not that hard with a  :>highspeed Internet connection.  I : FYI, I have all of the Freeware CDs (V1, V2, V3, V4 and V5) on-line viatI : my InfoServer/InfoTowers.  They are presently off-line until the end ofnI : the week when my new big MoFo UPS arrives and is installed.  If you areCE : interested, check next in week at:  http://www.tmesis.com/freeware/n  A It's been a while since I looked at the V1-V3 Freeware CDs, so myv@ memory could be fuzzy, but I don't remember there being anything on them that wasn't on V4. -- a Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net = Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jan 2002 12:26:48 -0800- From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell) - Subject: Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?a= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0201231226.4ac964c6@posting.google.com>e  Z David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<3C4EDE15.1D5708C8@caltech.edu>...  9 > One of my bigger pet peeves.  Since no telephone buttone: > is labeled with a Q one cannot dial ATCOMPAQ.  I wonder ' > if they own all numbers ATCOMPA[0-9]?     D My mobile has Q on the 7 key. Would make SMS rather limited if there% were letters of the alphabet missing.e   HTH etc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:38:23 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>- Subject: RE: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?m- Message-ID: <0033000048976473000002L032*@MHS>a  5 =0AYou *can* download just the bits you want, y'know.o   WWWebb    As for the Q key:   $ SET DEMEANOR/TONGUE_IN_CHEEK  ' My keyboard's ANY key has gone missing.s Whatever shall I do?    $ SET DEMEANOR/NOTONGUE_IN_CHEEK   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe) Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 3:29 PMoB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET- Subject: RE: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?t    2 David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote in message' news:<3C4EDE15.1D5708C8@caltech.edu>...h  9 > One of my bigger pet peeves.  Since no telephone buttons9 > is labeled with a Q one cannot dial ATCOMPAQ.  I wonderm' > if they own all numbers ATCOMPA[0-9]?x    D My mobile has Q on the 7 key. Would make SMS rather limited if there% were letters of the alphabet missing.   	 HTH etc.=    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:18:48 -0500a  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>- Subject: Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale? 6 Message-ID: <1020123161245.29608C-100000@Ives.egh.com>  ( On Wed, 23 Jan 2002, David Mathog wrote:   > John Forkosh wrote:h > > F > > I purchased Freeware 5 CD from them back on Sept 4, 2001, for $25.J > > Call 1-800-DIGITAL (or 1-800-ATCOMPAQ, I can't recall which I dialed),, > > and ask for QA-6KZAA-H8.  Worked for me. > 9 > One of my bigger pet peeves.  Since no telephone buttons: > is labeled with a Q one cannot dial ATCOMPAQ.  I wonder ' > if they own all numbers ATCOMPA[0-9]?   7 You don't need the "Q".  1-800-ATC-OMPA[Q] has an extraq: digit.  It is ignored.  So in a sense, they do own all the; numbers 0-9 (plus * and #), since if you dial them, you aret: sending them to Compaq's ACD, not to the telco.  (Provided9 you pause long enough after the "A" to let Compaq answer;  otherwise it is just dropped.)  
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu   -- t John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 2002 21:24:59 GMT- From: forkosh@panix1.panix.com (John Forkosh) - Subject: Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale? ) Message-ID: <a2n9nb$epv$1@news.panix.com>   ( David Mathog (mathog@caltech.edu) wrote: : John Forkosh wrote:d : > F : > I purchased Freeware 5 CD from them back on Sept 4, 2001, for $25.J : > Call 1-800-DIGITAL (or 1-800-ATCOMPAQ, I can't recall which I dialed),, : > and ask for QA-6KZAA-H8.  Worked for me.  9 : One of my bigger pet peeves.  Since no telephone buttont: : is labeled with a Q one cannot dial ATCOMPAQ.  I wonder ' : if they own all numbers ATCOMPA[0-9]?   @ I thought you were kidding, but there've been several followups, and I can't tell anymore. A      Note that ATCOMPAQ is 8 characters, whereas US phone numberse= are 7.  Just dial 1-800-ATCOMPA.  Anything after that will bei1 ignored, and the call will go through regardless.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:29:04 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?a1 Message-ID: <QOG38.364$PZ4.7493@news.cpqcorp.net>t  ^ In article <3C4E1ACD.44272EA0@mailbag.com>, William Barnett-Lewis <wlewis@mailbag.com> writes:  G :For simplicity, I'd like to have a copy of one of the Freeware CDROMs.  :Unfortunately, according toC :http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/index.html it's notvD :available separate from the full cost media kit. Does anyone have a  :spare they'd care to part with?  F   The FW5 (Freeware V5.0) disks are available for purchase, for media F   and shipping charges.  Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for details.  FW4 +   was not seperately orderable from Compaq.m  8   There are no prohibitions on replicating the FW disks.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------N       For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.openvms.compaq.com    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:44:25 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o- Subject: Re: WTB:Freeware 4 or 5 CD for sale?a' Message-ID: <3C4F761B.EB12A165@fsi.net>    Michael Austin wrote:  >  > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > >nG > > Sorry if  this is off topic, but this seemed the best place to ask.u > >aJ > > For simplicity, I'd like to have a copy of one of the Freeware CDROMs. > > Unfortunately, according tosF > > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/index.html it's notG > > available separate from the full cost media kit. Does anyone have a # > > spare they'd care to part with?d > >V > > Thanks,a > >a > > William  > > --. > > You better watch out    What you wish for;/ > > It better be worth it   So much to die for.l1 > >                                 Courtney Lovel > E > Why not just download what you need from the net?  I don't have theCH > freeware CD so I just get what I need from there.  Just as easy.   AndJ > if you are really wanted a CD, just burn your own.  Not that hard with a  > highspeed Internet connection.  F Careful about making assumptions re: broadband internet. Even in largeD metro markets like suburban Chgo., it's still only available to less  than half of the area residents.  H I'm stuck on 56K dial up until I can either justify ISDN or get wirelessD broadband (no providers currently service Carol Stream or any of theF surrounding communities, except for extremely limited Sprint BroadbandD Direct coverage, and they are no longer accepting any new business).   -- e David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:41:32 -0600a% From: "Pat Durkin" <durk@nothome.com>pD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The/ Message-ID: <u4ub5bqqk1sc0f@corp.supernews.com>>  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C4EFAD6.FC4AA2D0@videotron.ca... > Pat Durkin wrote:sB > > a staple food in Australian households? Because it's cheap and easy3 > > and, above all, because it tastes fantastic." 'g >,< > If it tastes so fantastic, how come people born outside of
 Australia/NewtF > Zeland find that substance absolutely disgusting and unfit for human > consumption ?a  C The "fantastic" usage is from the Vegemite website.    I have neverM> tasted it.  If you say it tastes bad and others, residents andE non-residents of Australia/New Zealand say it tastes bad, while stillpC others, residents and non-residents of Australia/New Zealand say ito< tastes good, then all I can say is, it is a matter of taste.D I guess you missed my first use of this, yesterday, in reply to yourC post yesterday.  (I am on CST, your post arrived at my computer  ate@ 9:16 pm, and I posted my response at 10:11 pm.  Both on Jan 22.)   You asked the following:F "Was all fine until you mentioned Marmite. Never quite figured out why theyD brits (Marmite), the Aussies and Kiwis (Vegemite) would have such an apetitetF for yeast infection. I think that offering Vegemite to anyone under 18 shoudl  be considered child molestation.  A And what I don't quite get is why the USA is guilty of inflicting: Aussies andpA Kiwis with Vegemite (it is made by Kraft, a USA corporation). And  poepleC complain about a few talibans being held by americans in a tropical 	 "resort".oF Interesting that nobody would have complained if they had been sent to an alaskan prison."  A And I replied with the following, which you have ineptly snipped:x  = 'Hey, Kraft never imposed Vegemite on Oz.  It is native born.o  ' cite:  from Kraft Canada.  do a Google.  "1923oF  VEGEMITE Yeast Spread is introduced in Australia by Fred Walker & Co.C of Melbourne. In 1926, Kraft Cheese Company acquires an interest inl the company.  < Why did Vegemite, which has been owned by the American KraftE corporation since 1935 but never exported, become a cultural icon andoC a staple food in Australian households? Because it's cheap and easyy/ and, above all, because it tastes fantastic." '   F This is copied from my post of today (11:00 am, CST), which was copied from my post of yesterday.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 02 12:32:17 -0800* From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@sky.bus.com>D Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The- Message-ID: <572.788T850T7523903@sky.bus.com>r  F In article <a2kuk2$pch$1@news.panix.com> never+mail@panics.com.invalid (Michael Roach) writes:    >Lumberjacks are from NZ?e  ! Yes, and they're all named Bruce.   $ "Oh, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..."  H >A continuing flow of paper is sufficient to continue the flow of paper.  > The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy.   --" cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs)5 Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply.-D I don't read top-posted messages.  If you want me to see your reply,? appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:06:34 -0500l% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>nD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The, Message-ID: <3C4F6C22.1D8C1E18@videotron.ca>   Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >Lumberjacks are from NZ?" > # > Yes, and they're all named Bruce.  > & > "Oh, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..."  9 Sorry, but in that context, all lumberjacks are Canadian.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:31:14 -0000s= From: "David McKenzie" <david.mckenzie@spitfire0.demon.co.uk>aD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was TheA Message-ID: <1011839486.9060.0.nnrp-14.c1edba74@news.demon.co.uk>r  < My dad was a lumberjack, and he worked in the sahara forest.   AND he ate Vegimite   2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C4F6C22.1D8C1E18@videotron.ca... > Charlie Gibbs wrote: > > >Lumberjacks are from NZ?o > >F% > > Yes, and they're all named Bruce.e > >-( > > "Oh, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK..." >e; > Sorry, but in that context, all lumberjacks are Canadian.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:18:10 -060045 From: William Hamblen <william.hamblen@nashville.com>hX Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of   compaq )8 Message-ID: <qqju4u4hd9rll06tm9062lvakobmnlk51t@4ax.com>  > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 03:02:28 -0500, shannon@news.widomaker.com  (Charles Shannon Hendrix) wrote:  G >What was the lines in some computer manuals from Britain talking about * >"chips that pass in the night" all about?  B "Ships that Pass in the Night" is a poem.  The phrase also means aC brief love affair.  It is just an awful pun (that is one you didn'ta think up first).   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jan 02 14:04:05 -0800* From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@sky.bus.com>X Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of   compaq )- Message-ID: <571.788T252T8443301@sky.bus.com>n  H In article <kmql2a.5pg.ln@escape.shannon.net> shannon@news.widomaker.com! (Charles Shannon Hendrix) writes:m  G >What was the lines in some computer manuals from Britain talking aboutp* >"chips that pass in the night" all about?  D On the other hand, someone will often buy someone else drinks in the3 hope that they will be sips that passion the night.e   --" cgibbs@sky.bus.com (Charlie Gibbs)5 Remove the first period after the "at" sign to reply.iD I don't read top-posted messages.  If you want me to see your reply,? appropriately trim the quoted text and put your reply below it.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:12:34 +0100a1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>.Y Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was The demise of compaq ) co 5 Message-ID: <3C4F2741.C5113E1E@swissonline.delete.ch>n   JF Mezei wrote:w >  > Alan Greig wrote:@J > > got some funny looks after telling the yanks he couldn't do a thing in8 > > the morning until after he'd had a fag in his mouth. > N > I was in a youth hostel in NZ where the hosts were couple and it looked/feltM > like Fawlty tower (they even had had a bird drop into the water tank on the O > roof). Anyways, the couple has a mild argument and the wife tells the husbandd( > she is going to town to get some fags. > L > I figured that perhaps the couple was quite liberated and that the husbandN > didn't mind the wife fooling around with gays... until I learned of the real, > meaning of the word "fag" in intl english.  H Some years ago I worked on a project with a 40 or 45 year old gay guy inC the team.  One morning there was a phone call for him but he wasn't-G there.  He got back to his desk abut 5 minutes later and explained that-' he'd just been out to have a cigarette.   = I said "What ?  You have a fag at this time of the morning ?"l  @ Steve grinned and said "You'd be surprised at what I get up to!"       John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:56:58 +0100 , From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch>: Subject: Re: [OffTheTopic] private Reflector for CU seeme?& Message-ID: <3C4F158A.9A585261@gmx.ch>   John McLean wrote: > # > ??? Cough, hawk, spit... what ???e   I pass on this one..  .E > VMS is level-headed, not at all like Steve Jobs.  Or are my sourcese  > entirely wrong on that issue ?   "level-headed" ?   .../.. > 0 > Oh dear... not those French videos *again* ???  P No French video, just family chat. Btw, I just installed coolcam 2.1 Nice stuff,P MUCH easier than Oculus. It uses the <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5"> tagO to update the picture every x seconds, and that's it. There is a sensor featureSG which triggers the update on move, and some other interesting features.-  * Here is the source of the index.html file:   <html> <head> <title>Papa in Zurich</title> H <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">- <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache">n' <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5">1- <meta http-equiv="Last-Modified" content="0"> E <meta http-equiv="Cache-Control" content="no-cache, must-revalidate">> </head>o <body> <center> <h1>Papa in Zurich</h1>t <img SRC="webcam.jpg"> </body>  </html>i  E Simple, right? If you wish to test, click here http://217.162.125.208n* (will be available for a few minutes only)   A demain John.   D. -- iH   ----------------------------------------------------------------------E MORANDI Consulting.  WEB: http://Didier.Morandi.Free.fr/index_us.htmloE Pflanzschulstrasse 53, 8004 Zurich, Switzerland. GSM: +41 79 705 4670a/ 19, chemin de la Butte, 31400 Toulouse, France.   H Disaster Recovery Plans, Computer Security Audits, DEC OpenVMS ExpertiseH On parle franais Man spricht Deutsch se habla Castellano English spoken   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:47:43 -0800oC From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com.nospam> @ Subject: [Q]: Problems with early ES40's & DS20's? (Joel Gallun)0 Message-ID: <3C4F4B9F.7B513DB7@intel.com.nospam>  A Back in December, Joel Gallun (who did not include a valid e-maila8 address) posted the following in the "Alphacide" thread:    B      "All of the early SMP ES40s, DS20s (500 & 667MHz) systems had      to haveA      their CPUs replaced (FCO) due to problems with memory accesstB      synchronization under heavy load. At my site we will probably      get theC      last FCO done as the last system goes onto the loading dock tor      be (      returned at the end of it's lease."  C Would Joel, or anyone else who has experienced this, please contact 7 me (offline or not) with an FCO and/or SRQ case number?n  @ I had brought this issue up with our Gold support team, but they@ couldn't find any reference or other indication of problems with "early SMP ES40's or DS20's".m        Thanks, Ken   --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldi! F20 Automation VMS System Support- kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:34:53 -0500c- From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@peoplepc.com>gD Subject: Re: [Q]: Problems with early ES40's & DS20's? (Joel Gallun), Message-ID: <3C4F9CFD.F6A6A87D@peoplepc.com>  I We had the backplanes replaced on 3 500 Mhz ES40's that had **NOT** been  M experiencing any problems 2 (?) years ago.  If I remember correctly, the FCO -J was not considered mandatory for 500 Mhz.  However, if you ever wanted to  upgrade ...,   -- y  
 Jack Patteeuwo   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.045 ************************