0 INFO-VAX	Fri, 25 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 48      Contents: Re: A position statement Re: A position statement Re: A position statement Re: bkjfn is an English word? @ Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* LinuxD Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* LinuxD Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* LinuxD Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux/ Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!  Changing colors in DECWindows 7 Re: Compaq Annual Financial Analyst Meeting and Webcast  Compaq financial conference  Re: Compaq financial conference  Re: Compaq financial conference  Re: Compaq financial conference  Re: Compaq financial conference 1 Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary... 1 Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary... 1 Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary... 1 Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary...  fopen crashes while in AST5 Re: Ford picks Alpha, beats pant off of Sun, HP, IBM! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility! ; Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!  I/O Performance on Alpha 4100 % Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic" ) Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"  Looking for a VMS job  RE: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  RE: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  Re: New VMS newsgroup  Re: Newbie Help on Security ! Re: No logical name match at boot ! Re: No logical name match at boot  Re: Old VCS licensesG Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an P Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English P Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English  Re: Pro merger+ Re: Problem with TSM and ETS-Terminalserver ( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof! Recently seen in SDA, ANAL/SYS... @ separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)D Re: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)D Re: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)D RE: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)D RE: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup) Re: Veritas Client for VMS% Re: What is unix for SEARCH /WINDOW=0 - re:  What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC , Re: What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC, Re: What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC, Re: What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC- Wierd File Reading Behaviour - Dec C on Alpha 1 Re: Wierd File Reading Behaviour - Dec C on Alpha 1 writev() crashes with access violation on OpenVMS 5 Re: writev() crashes with access violation on OpenVMS 5 Re: writev() crashes with access violation on OpenVMS ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The ; Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The F Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The dem9 Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:20:10 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ! Subject: Re: A position statement , Message-ID: <3C512337.53BF1AF4@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:I > It was a lose/lose situation:  if the merger went through, the combined M > corporation would be tied up in assimilation for a couple of years; if not, 2 > Compaq had just shot itself in the foot (again).  N  Carly and Curly seem convinced that they are perfectly capable of integratingL overnight and that they had specific plans already laid out prior to getting% the bankers involved in their affair.     M Is this a PR spin and Carly/Curly are fully aware of what will really happen, M or are they so naive and gullible that they really believe they can integrate 5 the two companies in a matter of a couple of months ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:52:47 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>! Subject: Re: A position statement ? Message-ID: <z1948.4906$vH6.252686@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C50EDB8.24C7BF6A@swissonline.delete.ch...    ...   C > I used Yahoo's financial pages to check the historical prices and < > volumes of Compaq stock and found some interesting things. > G > 1.  There was scarcely a ripple when Compaq announced the transfer of  > Alpha  > F > What are we to read into this attitude?  Is it that the fairly smartI > II's said "Okay VMS will still be VMS, Tru64 will still be Tru64.  Both I > have big advantages over competitors." ?   (Remember, folk like Putnams I > must have some pretty cluey people to look at the future prospects of a  > company.)   E It's not clear we can read *anything* into it without knowing whether L Putnam, etc., were unloading quietly earlier so as not to perturb the price:L it's the dates *they* sold on that are significant to their insight, not theD stock price/volume quake that occurred with the merger announcement.  I (And you complain about the legitimacy of the conclusions *I* draw?  Note L that I'm not saying I believe that Putnam *did* unload earlier, only that we; really don't have any idea from the data you've presented.)    >  > E > 2.  When the merger was announced it was an earthquake.  The volume J > suddenly leapt by a factor of 8 and the next day was even higher.  StockE > price opened at $12.88, got as high as $12.93 but as low as $10.69, I > closing at $11.02.  Stock volumes didn't get back to the old levels for 2 > almost a month but with prices down in the $9's. > I > So what's the collective attitude from the IIs ?  Clearly it says "This  > is bad news."   & Duh - *everyone* said it was bad news.  9   From the Massachusetts based people - Digital heartland I > folk - it might also be saying "This merger is crazy.  Compaq should do $ > more with Digital's old products."  L What possible reason do you have for suspecting that anything like that last9 idea occurred to them, if it hadn't for the past 3 years?    > I > The interesting thing is that the IIs were prepared to cut their fairly B > substantial losses rather than hang in there and hope for a turn	 > around.   G It was a lose/lose situation:  if the merger went through, the combined K corporation would be tied up in assimilation for a couple of years; if not, K Compaq had just shot itself in the foot (again).  Either way, it would be a 1 long time (if ever) before stock value recovered.    >  > G > To me, this is the stuff that really counts.  The reaction as regards  > stockholder value. > E > When the short-lived VMS renaissance actually showed an increase in F > sales Compaq was very keen to take the message to the streets.  ThisJ > should be where we take our message (when we figure out how).  A messageH > of doom-and-gloom about VMS won't help us, but a message to the effectJ > that Compaq's consistent emphasis on PCs has destroyed stockholder valueH > is a completely different thing.  That's the way we need to play this.  G I suppose it might be, if we had any experience in that area that would K cause people to listen to us.  But even then, it's still saying what Compaq H *shouldn't* be doing rather than what Compaq *should* be doing, which isL risky:  after all, even if Compaq dropped the PC biz, the current managementJ is completely capable of charging off in some new equally stupid directionG rather than devoting their attention to the product set they've already  written off as useless.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:12:33 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ! Subject: Re: A position statement 8 Message-ID: <c3825uskd6j4f8b974n1d5oa4nurd8l1g8@4ax.com>  / On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:28:08 +0100, John McLean & <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:    C >Yes (to the second last question).  I have it from a very reliable B >source that Compaq's competitors are in fact making use of Bill'sI >comments.  I have emailed that source to ask if I can say more about the   D What does it say about Compaq's business acumen if what you claim isC true? You say that Compaq don't pay attention to this newsgroup but  competitors do?   C Means one of two things to me. Either Compaq management are (again) ? incompetent or else they really don't care about addressing the  reasons for the disquiet.    > G >Complaining within this group is achieving nothing.  We need to try to G >make use of forums that are more public and through those forums bring D >pressure to bear on Compaq management so they are forced to justifyF >their emphasis on low-income products over high-income, or change the >way they are operating. >  >  >  >John McLean   -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:37:27 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: bkjfn is an English word?3 Message-ID: <RsWrB9gXw5b$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <3C501D7A.89F7F1CF@aaa.com>, Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes: I > Even better perhaps to disallow two passwords with the same hash value. > > Then you don't have to keep the plain text password, but can> > check durectly with the stored hash. One could issue a errorD > message like "Same password already used by other user!". It realyC > doesn't matter if it wasn't exactly the same plain text password, D > the user could never check that anyhow without asking everybody... >   G    Two password with the same hash value are guaranteed to be different 2    passwords since the hash includes the username.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:40:54 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> I Subject: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux 8 Message-ID: <i6r25usbi2m6fflqfrau4sm0buhokp2hbb@4ax.com>  A In the financial conference Capellas has just said (I paraphrase) F "there is absolutely no question that industry standard systems (slide? defines this as Windows and Linux) are eviscerating proprietary 0 systems. The era of proprietary systems is over"    Better open source VMS now then.  F Interestingly Capellas seems to be defining Windows as non proprietary% again. Someone should tell Microsoft.  -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:26:04 +0100 (MET) 9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> M Subject: Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux ; Message-ID: <01KDHT7SF6CM8ZI8TR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J > In the financial conference Capellas has just said (I paraphrase) "thereI > is absolutely no question that industry standard systems (slide defines J > this as Windows and Linux) are eviscerating proprietary systems. The era" > of proprietary systems is over"  > " > Better open source VMS now then.  I Why?  Do you think it will then be more popular because Linux is popular  D and open-source?  Consider that VMS is now proprietary and not very 2 popular compared to Windows, which is proprietary.  I Executive summary: to first order (and, probably, even second and higher  I orders as well), the popularity of an operating system is not correlated   to whether it is open-source.   F Sure, having the source available might make VMS a bit more popular.  H But it would make no money for Compaq, so why should they do it?  Also, D it would take away one advantage that VMS has had, that it has been G written by a small group of people working together and keeping things   consistent.   G Also, since when should Capellas's pronouncements be taken as goals of   the community?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:03:48 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> M Subject: Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux + Message-ID: <3C518FF4.9D81978F@caltech.edu>    Phillip Helbig wrote:  > L > > In the financial conference Capellas has just said (I paraphrase) "thereK > > is absolutely no question that industry standard systems (slide defines L > > this as Windows and Linux) are eviscerating proprietary systems. The era# > > of proprietary systems is over"  > > $ > > Better open source VMS now then. > J > Why?  Do you think it will then be more popular because Linux is popularE > and open-source?  Consider that VMS is now proprietary and not very 4 > popular compared to Windows, which is proprietary.  M Popularity has very, very little to do with open versus closed and everything C to do with purchase price.  Just for starters, the cost to purchase 8 these OS's commercially for a small machine are roughly:  H          OS Software  Hardware  Total       Relative cost of application software/ OpenVMS: $1000        $5000     $7000       10X / Windows:  $300        $1000     $1300        1X / Linux       $0        $1000     $1000        0X   P Any way you slice it OpenVMS is an expensive solution and it's been an expensiveM solution for way, way, way too long, and the market (except for big machines) 
 has passedO it by. It will be interesting to see if Linux can get past the huge market lead  thatL Windows holds.  I'm reasonably sure that if MS Office for Linux ever shippedJ linux usage would explode (because most office workers never use any other	 software, D and once you're in Word it really doesn't matter which OS is running underneath).< So we can be pretty sure that this product will never exist.  @ As for VMS, well, sometimes you've just got to say good bye :-(.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2002 12:28 CST ' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) M Subject: Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux - Message-ID: <25JAN200212285784@gerg.tamu.edu>   + David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> writes... I }         OS Software  Hardware  Total       Relative cost of application 	 }software 0 }OpenVMS: $1000        $5000     $7000       10X } 7 }Any way you slice it OpenVMS is an expensive solution  
 }David Mathog   ' The way I slice it, 1000 + 5000 = 6000.    --- Carl   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:26:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!- Message-ID: <87elkfuvgg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   * bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski) writes:  F > What makes IBM profitable?  It is not just software services.  It isF > the hardware!  When you provide a superior hardware platform (power)E > that can run software that is secure, can scale well, and run 24x7, ! > then software services soar ...   E The thing that adds more to anything else to IBMs bottom line are the ? regiments of CTOs in banks and manf Co who *KNOW* from personal E experience that IBM will, if need be, fly parts and people around the F world to 'do what it takes'. And will tommorow, and the day after. All they have to do is pay.   ? And for THAT, they are quite happy to pay 50% over for ordinary  performance.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:30:50 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!- Message-ID: <87adv3uv9h.fsf@prep.synonet.com>x  " cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> writes:  ? > My guess would be that most of them are very minor protectivetB > patents, designed more for defense (i.e. to establish a priority > date) than offense.s  n6 > But that's JMHO -- I haven't looked at them, either.  E Not really. IBM has a huge patent stash, in all sorts of fields. TheyDA leverage these by cross licencing, sale of patent licences, or of F complete units. They sold their GPS division (!!?, IBM make GPS...) toE some mobile phone hopefull the other week. Bet that a) DOD payed costqB plus to get it going, and b) they end up with it back for WAY less than they sold it for.   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:41:07 -0800s# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Changing colors in DECWindows9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIOEDGEAAA.tom@kednos.com>i  F Running 6.2 on AXP,  going through the OPTIONS pull down under Session ManagernL I am able to change the background color of screen, but not windows.  When I try,I a message tells me that it will only affect new applications, so i open a  new DECterm H and, nada.  What is the trick?  Normally I wouldn't waste time with such matters, butH it is difficult to see, particularly as the glasses need to be stronger.  G Now, if I open emacs, dbg or book reader the window has the new colors,e almost.  It doesn't  change the highlight color.r  4 Do I need to muck with some X-xindows stuff or what?   TIAM Toms   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 16:46:42 +0100* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)@ Subject: Re: Compaq Annual Financial Analyst Meeting and Webcast* Message-ID: <3c517de2$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  T In article <3C50EA2D.361AF239@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: >Terry C Shannon wrote:k> >> More info is at www.compaq.com/corporate/ir/meetingwebcasts >> e& >> The show gets underway at 0900 EST. >eM >You must have very good powers because the above URL says "directory listingeK >denied" to us mere mortals. (Or perhaps the men in black have specifically-, >setup their web site to block my access :-)  
 Yup (me too).t  N >http://www.compaq.com/corporate/ir/meetingwebcasts/index.html  gets you where >you can click to register  G And that one (also with .htm and .asp) does bring me a "File Not Found"    -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111 2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111 888s< KAPSCH AG      Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:41:55 +0000A% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>Z$ Subject: Compaq financial conference8 Message-ID: <nt135uoqdm4a3nt6vampmp8o8tuhr88ik6@4ax.com>   Ok, here's my take.c  > Compaq *have* heard us but have decided not to be "distracted"@ (Elias). NSK is safe. Other than that it is Windows and Linux onC Intel.  There isn't even room beyond the short term for HP-UX nevers& mind Tru64. And certainly not for VMS.  D That's it. There is no future for expansion of the VMS market. EliasF actually stated that *because* customers had not deserted in droves heF sees no need to rethink any strategies. Only one strategy can save VMS now and that's Bill Todd's.r  E The port of VMS is just a smokescreen and those in this newsgroup wholF wish we would shut up are in denial. Be sure I will remind you we toldD you so when the announcement finally comes. Congratulations to thoseE with their heads in the sand for helping Compaq defeat us. It's taken F years of first Digital then Compaq's intentional destruction of assets; but they've got away with it. Bit by bit. Drip, drip, drip.o   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:04:52 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>l( Subject: Re: Compaq financial conference, Message-ID: <3C519E42.B0CE1ADE@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:r@ > Compaq *have* heard us but have decided not to be "distracted"B > (Elias). NSK is safe. Other than that it is Windows and Linux onE > Intel.  There isn't even room beyond the short term for HP-UX nevert( > mind Tru64. And certainly not for VMS.    H Glad I opted to listen to the EVA of the russian astronauts on the spaceL station instead of the Compaq propaganda. It is rather pointless to get evenM more depressed. At least listening to the spacewalk provides one with an ideanK that humanity is doing something right. (The station runs a variety of OSs, J including Solaris, HP-UX and Windows95-98 as well as proprietary stuff forK real time control systems).  Windows laptops used only for management tasks M and playing DVDs to watch movies (they cannot connect to the mission criticalr stuff of the station).  G (I say HP-=UX because I assume that this is what is used on the russianhK segment since HP has a big banner on the wall of the russian control centretO (the computers for the russian segment were provided by european space agengy).a     > F > That's it. There is no future for expansion of the VMS market. EliasH > actually stated that *because* customers had not deserted in droves heH > sees no need to rethink any strategies. Only one strategy can save VMS > now and that's Bill Todd's.a  D Geez, and I thought I was depressed. Even more glad I didn't listen.  G > The port of VMS is just a smokescreen and those in this newsgroup whou& > wish we would shut up are in denial.  L If EV7 performs really well and IA64 is slow as molasses, then very vew willL want to port to IA64 and Compaq might as well just keep on pushing Alpha-VMSJ to the remaining customers for another 10 years with just process shrinks.    O > Be sure I will remind you we told you so when the announcement finally comes.d  I You know, many people had predicted the demise of Alpha as soon as Compaq M killed Windows on Alpha. And when the announcement came, there weren't any "I1 told you so"s.  N The thing is that Compaq won't outright kill VMS for quite some years and willE just the VMS market do what it wants to do (naturally shrink). So anylH predictions of VMS's death can easily be quashed by the few defenders ofK Compaq who can point to a future version of VMS, or a port to IA64 etc etc.-  S VMS will die of old age, slowly whereas MPE died in a car accident, very suddently.'   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 12:03:46 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)t( Subject: Re: Compaq financial conference3 Message-ID: <f2D7mVzWml7e@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ` In article <nt135uoqdm4a3nt6vampmp8o8tuhr88ik6@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >  > Ok, here's my take.e > @ > Compaq *have* heard us but have decided not to be "distracted" > (Elias). NSK is safe.    	Elsewhere you wrote:s  J > In the financial conference Capellas has just said (I paraphrase)       I > "there is absolutely no question that industry standard systems (slide  J > defines this as Windows and Linux) are eviscerating proprietary         3 > systems. The era of proprietary systems is over" i  = 	NSK can't be safe if the era of proprietary systems is over.e   			Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:24:54 -0500w% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>f( Subject: Re: Compaq financial conference, Message-ID: <3C51A2F2.CB9BA157@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:F >         NSK can't be safe if the era of proprietary systems is over.    K NSK is a sacred cow that runs the stock exchanges in New York. Too visible.pE And Unix cannot replace it because Unix does not have fault toleranceeJ built-in, and more importantly, doesn't have applications that are writtenL specifically for those customers and applications that make use of the faultP tolerance (an app needs to be fault tolerant aware to be fault tolerant on NSK).   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2002 18:20:56 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)e( Subject: Re: Compaq financial conference' Message-ID: <a2s7m8$dif$2@joe.rice.edu>   & Alan Greig (a.greig@virgin.net) wrote:   : Ok, here's my take.c  @ : Compaq *have* heard us but have decided not to be "distracted"B : (Elias). NSK is safe. Other than that it is Windows and Linux onE : Intel.  There isn't even room beyond the short term for HP-UX nevert* : mind Tru64. And certainly not for VMS...  C The following article mentions the operating system rationalizationcA that HP planned last September, converging to Linux, NT and Unix.   C Since then, MPE has beeen EOLed, Tru64 Unix pronounced as an "organiH donor", and most of the team that ported HP-UX to IA64 given pink slips:  4    http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-7071077.html=    HP to have merger map in 100 days -  Tech News -  CNET.coma  $    HP to have merger map in 100 days    By Michael Kanellos      Staff Writer, CNET News.com"    September 5, 2001, 5:15 p.m. PT  H   "Like a newly inaugurated president, the new Hewlett-Packard is giving5    itself 100 days to flesh out its strategic vision.y  H    Jim McDonnell, vice president of worldwide marketing for the businessG    customer unit at HP, said Wednesday that the transition team charged B    with overseeing HP's acquisition of Compaq Computer will try to?    formalize a strategy for how the new company will operate inc    relatively short order..."?  C Perhaps HP & Compaq are getting ready to bail on Itanium when IntelC executes its Plan B:  ?    http://www.siliconvalley.com/docs/news/svtop/intel012502.htm 8    Intel's Plan B chip stirs internal debate (1/24/2002)  8    http://www0.mercurycenter.com/business/top/038013.htm8    Intel has secret weapon against AMD chips (1/24/2002)  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:41:27 +0000l) From: Greg Thomas <thomasgd@omc.bt.co.uk>r: Subject: Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary...8 Message-ID: <po925ucdkfuq0el3veo173r96k32pu3k7d@4ax.com>  2 On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:16:44 -0500, Michael Austin) <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote in article-" <3C506BAC.AA6D489A@bellsouth.net>:  E >Linux is open source. In it's own way, it is still proprietary.  You & >can't run MS products on it, can you?  F Yes. http://www.lindows.com/ is a Linux-based OS that says "LindowsOS,@ due out 1st Quarter of 2002, will have the unique ability to runB Linux software titles as well as many popular Microsoft WindowsE software titles giving computer owners and organizations of all sizesr new options on the desktop."   Greg --  5 This post represents the views of the author and doest5 not necessarily accurately represent the views of BT.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:42:38 +0100-= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl> : Subject: Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary...5 Message-ID: <3C51369E.EFE4A8FF@contrastmediagroep.nl>a   Greg Thomas wrote: > 4 > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:16:44 -0500, Michael Austin+ > <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote in articles$ > <3C506BAC.AA6D489A@bellsouth.net>: > G > >Linux is open source. In it's own way, it is still proprietary.  You ( > >can't run MS products on it, can you? > H > Yes. http://www.lindows.com/ is a Linux-based OS that says "LindowsOS,B > due out 1st Quarter of 2002, will have the unique ability to runD > Linux software titles as well as many popular Microsoft WindowsG > software titles giving computer owners and organizations of all sizesh > new options on the desktop."  G For the moment this is (still) vaporware. I have to see this for myselfe before believing it.   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:40:44 -0000c2 From: seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel): Subject: Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary...; Message-ID: <slrna532lb.8nc.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>,  L On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:16:44 -0500, Michael Austin <miaustin@bellsouth.net>  wrote:? >I have always said that the only truely open system is the PC.e >tG No, the PC is not an "open system", it is "industry standard".  It is a-G common mistake and many people do call "industry standard" system open.l
 See below.  I >Open being defined as being able to buy off-the-shelf hardware, plugging ? >it into my box and have it work <most of the time?>. With thiswG >definition Intel-based PC's are the only real open system.  Sun isn't,aH >Apple/Mac isn't, HP isn't; IBM isn't, Alpha isn't.  ALL products are inC >and of themselves proprietary.  Otherwise no one would make money.r >iE >Linux is open source. In it's own way, it is still proprietary.  You I >can't run MS products on it, can you?  Then it is not truely open.  OpenmG >and "industry standard"  are buzz words dreamed up by marketing moronsM% >who have no clue what a computer is.o  H The definitions of "open system", "open source", and "industry standard"H are not dreamed up by "marketing morons", but are the result of a lot ofG consensus within our industry and, usually, led by recognized standardsl& organizations, like the IEEE or ISO.    F The term "Open System" goes back into the late 80s and means a system J based on official, recognized standards, for example, POSIX or IEEE 802.  E These are also called "de jure" standards and, in some places in the  " world, do have the force of law.    H "Industry Standard" systems are also built to standards, the difference F being that the standards do not have to be official (de jure) instead G they can be created by anyone.  These are called "de facto" standards. kI The postscript is such a standard.  It can be, and has been, implemented iE by any vendor.  There can also be "open source" implementations, for s example, ghostscript.o  D "Open source" is the most recent term.  IIRC, it was created by EricG Raymond in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" and generally accepted by theeH industry.  It applies (so far, at least) only to software and means thatE the source code of an open source program is available to any user of-I that program and can be modified (at least for their own individual use) lG by that user.  BTW, it does not mean that a program must be free, as ind
 no cost.    E I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion about these term.h -- lD --------------------------------------------------------------------D Rich Seibel, Software Engineer                 (314)579-0066 ext 220D Object Computing, Inc.                           seibel_r@ociweb.comD Need ACE training?                      See http://www.theaceorb.comD --------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:20:56 GMTC  From: cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net>: Subject: Re: Even Intel thinks Itanic isn't Proprietary...+ Message-ID: <3C51A238.56C2EEC0@prodigy.net>    Oswald Knoppers wrote: >  > Greg Thomas wrote: > >v6 > > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:16:44 -0500, Michael Austin- > > <miaustin@bellsouth.net> wrote in articlef& > > <3C506BAC.AA6D489A@bellsouth.net>: > > I > > >Linux is open source. In it's own way, it is still proprietary.  Youn* > > >can't run MS products on it, can you? > >tJ > > Yes. http://www.lindows.com/ is a Linux-based OS that says "LindowsOS,D > > due out 1st Quarter of 2002, will have the unique ability to runF > > Linux software titles as well as many popular Microsoft WindowsI > > software titles giving computer owners and organizations of all sizes   > > new options on the desktop." > I > For the moment this is (still) vaporware. I have to see this for myself  > before believing it. > 
 > Regards, >  > Oswald  K What I want to know is how do they decide which bugs to replicate?  Do theylJ have to go through all the common applications software and figure out who relies on which?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:22:46 -0500o% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>:# Subject: fopen crashes while in ASTe, Message-ID: <3C51A272.F3B20140@videotron.ca>  = Program uses $QIO to connect to http server on the internet. d  N every 10 minutes, a timed AST is fired and it creates a new configuration file% as a way to checkpoint its progress. a   The problem:  M The AST works fine the first time it is called (after about 500 transactions) E but upon its second invocation, it will generally fail at the fopen()bN statement. The filename has been verified to be valid. HOWEVER, there are someJ image activations where it won't fail (one completed succesfully, and some, other failed after more than 2 invocations).  K The AST does a complete "loop" (i.e one fopen, a few fprintf, then fclose). + This file is not used nor opened elsewhere.     J The core of the program was used succesfully last week to build sequentialK files and the AST ran without problems for a combined run time of about 334,U hours. and close to 300,000 transactions (I ran multiple processes at the same time).s  N However, this weekend, I need to run through all those records and update themL with some additional information, also fetched from the internet. So I addedM some RMS calls ($OPEN, $DISPLAY, $CONNECT, $GET, $UPDATE, $FREE) that fetch aiM record from the indexed file, use the existing code to get the infor from theaN net (different URL) and then use $UPDATE to write it back to the file with the! formerly empty fields now filled.t  M This works fine. Except for the AST that causes image to crash after a while.i( (about 1000 transactions or 20 minutes).    K I have tested that the character string that holds the filename supplied toeN the fopen statement is correct. And fopen does not create a new version of the! file (so it doesn't get fer far).   @ What additional steps could I do to  find out what is going on ?  L If I run it with debugger, once it crashes, how can I find out what it wrongH since the routine will be inside the RTL and I won't have source code to detect what is wrong ?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 10:37:10 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>> Subject: Re: Ford picks Alpha, beats pant off of Sun, HP, IBM!- Message-ID: <87g04vtauh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>/  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > Bob Ceculski wrote:S   & > > Alpha wins big again ... as usual!   + > > http://www.theinquirer.net/18010212.htme  t  > > Alpha powers Land Rover cars > > Tru64 cluster busters   - > They use VMS as well ;-)  F Now all we need is a big sale to Lucas as well to round it out. Rover," FORD and the Prince of Darkness...     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.E@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 10:07:36 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!- Message-ID: <87ofjjtc7r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  - davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey) writes:   [ > JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3C4C747F.19D3EF11@videotron.ca>...K > > "David L. Cathey" wrote:  D > > > did so well with VAX->Alpha.  OpenVMS has some of the best O/SE > > > and Compiler people in the world - no other company is more andiA > > > better equiped to port to Itanium than OpenVMS Engineering.l  D > > How much of Digital's compiler people needed for the port of VMS > > are still within Compaq ?s  D Still? Well, the Fortran C and C++ people have gone to intel. as for? 'still'.  When the port was sprung on ZK, they did not have ANY 1 maintainers for several compilers. Or the linker.   @ > 	It's my understanding that all the compiler people needed areF > still there.  They were not part of the "Alpha chip" people movement9 > to Intel, that was restricted to the hardware designersi  F > > Also, how much work will Intel people do for VMS compilers on IA64E > > ? We already know that Alpha based compilers will be "matured" onaC > > VMS with just maintenance releases. I wonder if that will causeoA > > problems with the "single code base" for both IA64 and Alpha.9  C Nope. Both halves will be flushed as soon as HP gets their hands on  it. Hope you like HPUX, spit...s   -- "< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 10:34:34 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!- Message-ID: <87k7u7tayt.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ' Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:   F > Your logic is based on one thing only. You don't believe that Compaq< > senior management are liars or clueless twits. You are notE > unintelligent therefore you are reconciling what Gartner et al. sayaE > by deciding it is "them" who are "clueless twits that do not have ae > clue about OpenVMS".  G They may know shit all about VMS, but they are far more into evaluatingbG compaq managment. On that score, 0.8 is IMO about 0.3 too high. Add thex$ HP factor, and take off another 0.5.   -- s< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.g@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 09:56:58 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!- Message-ID: <87sn8vtcph.fsf@prep.synonet.com>s  & "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> writes:  
 > clip ...  sF > > 1.  There's no *current* reason to expect Itanic to have much of aF > > high-volume market at all.  Windows and Linux servers tend to be >E > > lower-end, and lower-end servers tend to run just dandy on 32-biteE > > hardware that will remain far less expensive than Itanic hardwareiB > > until such time (and it's > not clear why such time will occur: > > before the end of the decade) as a large percentage of> > > high-volume, lower-end platforms actually start to require@ > > 64-bitness.  Not to mention the fact that AMD's Hammer seemsF > > likely to satisfy mid-range and/or 64-bit Windows and Linux serverD > > requirements considerably better (absolute better performance atC > > absolute lower cost, plus *far* better 32-bit performance) thantE > > any proposed Itanic ever will.  So Itanic's ability to spread outiF > > its development costs over high sales volumes is highly debatable.    , > I find this statement intuitively obvious.   B > If it pans out as I expect it will, then the ENTIRE BASIS of theC > CompaQ strategy based on Industry Standard (sic) architecture foryF > VMS and Tru64 with its supposed lower cost model etc. etc. etc fallsD > flat on the ground.  It is a perfect example of how one fallacious" > assumption invalidates a result.  a? > I think people (except Bill and me) have completely failed tot@ > realise the implications of this.  I cannot personally see theD > Itanic achieving the cost levels that would be required to make itE > "industry standard" anytime soon and certanly not by the stated EOLF > of Alpha.e  i> > I cannot prove this of course - time will do this for me :-)  A And even if itanics where free to compaq, the cost of getting theSC functions they need at the system level, rather than the chip levelsC is way in excess of the chip cost. See the DTJ articles on the 8400p design.x  C untel have been poking that porker for a decade, and it still can'tnE spin its flaps at anywhere near a real speed. This is the wonder thatc5 was going to outperform Alpha by 2-3 fold remember...    -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.-@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:31:20 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!@ Message-ID: <sLf48.24822$%b.1104734@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messagen' news:87k7u7tayt.fsf@prep.synonet.com...a) > Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:b > H > > Your logic is based on one thing only. You don't believe that Compaq> > > senior management are liars or clueless twits. You are notG > > unintelligent therefore you are reconciling what Gartner et al. saysG > > by deciding it is "them" who are "clueless twits that do not have aw > > clue about OpenVMS". >vI > They may know shit all about VMS, but they are far more into evaluatingeI > compaq managment. On that score, 0.8 is IMO about 0.3 too high. Add ther& > HP factor, and take off another 0.5.  K Er, as someone else pointed out, 0.8 was the estimated probability that the I 'operating environment' would *not* be completely ported in the specified G time frame.  Depending upon how you define 'operating environment', oneHK could consider that anywhere from optimistic to pessimistic (e.g., I reallyoF do believe that the VMS group will port the kernel successfully and on; time - unless the port or VMS itself is killed externally).n   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 11:19:20 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)iD Subject: Re: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses all credibility!3 Message-ID: <Q0R+mpUQAg5T@eisner.encompasserve.org>A  m In article <sLf48.24822$%b.1104734@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > ; > "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in messageg) > news:87k7u7tayt.fsf@prep.synonet.com...h* >> Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >>I >> > Your logic is based on one thing only. You don't believe that Compaq-? >> > senior management are liars or clueless twits. You are not H >> > unintelligent therefore you are reconciling what Gartner et al. sayH >> > by deciding it is "them" who are "clueless twits that do not have a >> > clue about OpenVMS".. >>J >> They may know shit all about VMS, but they are far more into evaluatingJ >> compaq managment. On that score, 0.8 is IMO about 0.3 too high. Add the' >> HP factor, and take off another 0.5.  > M > Er, as someone else pointed out, 0.8 was the estimated probability that the"K > 'operating environment' would *not* be completely ported in the specifiedeI > time frame.  Depending upon how you define 'operating environment', one-M > could consider that anywhere from optimistic to pessimistic (e.g., I really.H > do believe that the VMS group will port the kernel successfully and on= > time - unless the port or VMS itself is killed externally).a >   F 	Precisely.  Bill, you are much more precise than that Gartner report.E 	As I mentioned before, this particular statement rankles me a bunch:.  I Gartner assessment: Currently, no conclusive answers to these issues have  come from Compaq.   ? 	That claims that there were no conclusive answers to Gartner'swB 	satisfaction.  Okay... they'd fit right in to cov discussions :-)   				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2002 18:35:54 GMT! From: briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO)t& Subject: I/O Performance on Alpha 41009 Message-ID: <20020125133554.01384.00000540@mb-ba.aol.com>   M I haven't posted here in a while, but I'm looking to speed up I/O on an AlphafO 4100 5/400 running VMS 7.2-1.  Most of the devices are things like RZ40-VA, and-F I believe the VA indicates narrow scsi?  I don't know exactly what PCI controllers are in use.e  L Applications on this system are I/O bound, and I would think I can make someJ big improvements through either a caching controller, or a combination new) controller, wide shelves and wide drives.n  % Any suggestions would be appreciated!e   Briane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:55:43 +0100i9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>e. Subject: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"' Message-ID: <3C511D8F.29901E83@aaa.com>l  , On http://www.theinquirer.net/25010201.htm :   &   "Intel will can Itanic if boy Hammer   does too well      Copycat AMD scheme ramps up   (   By Mike Magee, 25/01/2002 08:18:25 BST  B   WE HAVE BELIEVED and have written for maybe two years that IntelG   is tirelessly working on its own version of X86-64 technology just in H   case two awful things happen - sales of its Itanic processor don't get4   any better, and sales of AMD's Clawhammer ramp up.  E   We locate it in Beaverton. See Intel steps up X86-64 skunkworks andy%   Apology: Intel's X86-64 skunkworks.h  @   Now the Mercury News has picked up on this story and amplified   Intel's plans.  C   According to a story up there, and based on an engineer who quiteoB   sensibly declined to be named, the "Yamhill Technology" which isG   essentially X86-64 features, will be built into allegedly 32-bit chipnG   Prescott with the option to turn the code on or off, depending on howaH   well the Intel folk think sales of Itanic are still crap, and sales of   Hammer are very good.d  F   As we have reported before, the work is going on in Ronler Acres andA   we can assure you that if Intel has to bite the bullet and dump 
 Itanic, it
   will do so.d  H   The newspaper says that the Itanium has cost Intel $1 billion over theF   seven (actually eight) years it's been in production, but we believe the."   true figure is higher than that.  H   Intel rarely, in our experience, puts ideology above market forces andA   if the Itanium fails to bolster its investment, it will have no  compunctionc   in pulling the trigger."  H   Don't forget, by the way, AMD's X86-64 site, which is there to sustainE   open source developers interested in its backward compatible 64-bitc   architecture.u  F   X86-64 code is not proprietary and we believe the instruction set isH   also open source, allowing Intel to freely use it. The instructions in then2   Itanium are definitely not in the same category.     Here's the Mercury piece.o;   (http://www0.mercurycenter.com/business/top/038013.htm) "-   Regards- Jan-Erik Sderholm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:47:59 +01007$ From: "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com>2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"/ Message-ID: <mKa48.50$pe4.2312@news.get2net.dk>w  G While busily writing my processor independent DCL, I was tempted to add-  7 $ If f$getsyi("arch_type") .eq. 3 Then arch_type := IPF   G But perhaps I also should add this as well - to be on the safe side :-)   7 $ If f$getsyi("arch_type") .eq. 4 Then arch_type := AMDA   Dweeb.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 07:26:12 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201250726.1f04f4a2@posting.google.com>   U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3C511D8F.29901E83@aaa.com>...M. > On http://www.theinquirer.net/25010201.htm : >   ( >   "Intel will can Itanic if boy Hammer >   does too well  >   >   Copycat AMD scheme ramps up  > * >   By Mike Magee, 25/01/2002 08:18:25 BST > D >   WE HAVE BELIEVED and have written for maybe two years that IntelI >   is tirelessly working on its own version of X86-64 technology just indJ >   case two awful things happen - sales of its Itanic processor don't get6 >   any better, and sales of AMD's Clawhammer ramp up. > G >   We locate it in Beaverton. See Intel steps up X86-64 skunkworks andt' >   Apology: Intel's X86-64 skunkworks.c > B >   Now the Mercury News has picked up on this story and amplified >   Intel's plans. > E >   According to a story up there, and based on an engineer who quiteiD >   sensibly declined to be named, the "Yamhill Technology" which isI >   essentially X86-64 features, will be built into allegedly 32-bit chipnI >   Prescott with the option to turn the code on or off, depending on how J >   well the Intel folk think sales of Itanic are still crap, and sales of >   Hammer are very good.e > H >   As we have reported before, the work is going on in Ronler Acres andC >   we can assure you that if Intel has to bite the bullet and dumpl > Itanic, it >   will do so.a > J >   The newspaper says that the Itanium has cost Intel $1 billion over theH >   seven (actually eight) years it's been in production, but we believe > the $ >   true figure is higher than that. > J >   Intel rarely, in our experience, puts ideology above market forces andC >   if the Itanium fails to bolster its investment, it will have nou
 > compunctionn >   in pulling the trigger.s > J >   Don't forget, by the way, AMD's X86-64 site, which is there to sustainG >   open source developers interested in its backward compatible 64-bitI >   architecture.h > H >   X86-64 code is not proprietary and we believe the instruction set isJ >   also open source, allowing Intel to freely use it. The instructions in > the,4 >   Itanium are definitely not in the same category. >  >   Here's the Mercury piece.t= >   (http://www0.mercurycenter.com/business/top/038013.htm) "t > 	 > Regards  > Jan-Erik Sderholm  = Looks like the Alpha engineers may be heading back to Compaq!    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 07:27:00 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201250727.4a19685c@posting.google.com>c  U Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in message news:<3C511D8F.29901E83@aaa.com>...o. > On http://www.theinquirer.net/25010201.htm : >   ( >   "Intel will can Itanic if boy Hammer >   does too well  >   >   Copycat AMD scheme ramps up  > * >   By Mike Magee, 25/01/2002 08:18:25 BST > D >   WE HAVE BELIEVED and have written for maybe two years that IntelI >   is tirelessly working on its own version of X86-64 technology just inrJ >   case two awful things happen - sales of its Itanic processor don't get6 >   any better, and sales of AMD's Clawhammer ramp up. > G >   We locate it in Beaverton. See Intel steps up X86-64 skunkworks and!' >   Apology: Intel's X86-64 skunkworks.0 > B >   Now the Mercury News has picked up on this story and amplified >   Intel's plans. > E >   According to a story up there, and based on an engineer who quitetD >   sensibly declined to be named, the "Yamhill Technology" which isI >   essentially X86-64 features, will be built into allegedly 32-bit chip I >   Prescott with the option to turn the code on or off, depending on how J >   well the Intel folk think sales of Itanic are still crap, and sales of >   Hammer are very good.u > H >   As we have reported before, the work is going on in Ronler Acres andC >   we can assure you that if Intel has to bite the bullet and dumpe > Itanic, it >   will do so.o > J >   The newspaper says that the Itanium has cost Intel $1 billion over theH >   seven (actually eight) years it's been in production, but we believe > thee$ >   true figure is higher than that. > J >   Intel rarely, in our experience, puts ideology above market forces andC >   if the Itanium fails to bolster its investment, it will have non
 > compunctionl >   in pulling the trigger.p > J >   Don't forget, by the way, AMD's X86-64 site, which is there to sustainG >   open source developers interested in its backward compatible 64-bitV >   architecture.i > H >   X86-64 code is not proprietary and we believe the instruction set isJ >   also open source, allowing Intel to freely use it. The instructions in > then4 >   Itanium are definitely not in the same category. >  >   Here's the Mercury piece.l= >   (http://www0.mercurycenter.com/business/top/038013.htm) "  > 	 > Regardso > Jan-Erik Sderholm   Does this mean EV8 is on again?w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:12:04 +0000i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"8 Message-ID: <pn035usrbeh37r9kis4rhc77ipr290gb7r@4ax.com>  A On 25 Jan 2002 07:27:00 -0800, bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)a wrote:   >o >h  >Does this mean EV8 is on again?  E Nope because Capellas made clear that only "industry standard" is thep@ future. He defined industry standard as Windows, Linux and Intel  E Compaq execs have used a number of Gartner slides in the presentation E to support their views. This is getting circular. Listening to Howardl3 Elias just now to see how he fits in VMS if at all.l -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:51:02 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>r2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic", Message-ID: <3C519B04.534DE065@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:@" > >Does this mean EV8 is on again? > G > Nope because Capellas made clear that only "industry standard" is thenB > future. He defined industry standard as Windows, Linux and Intel  J If Intel drops IA64, and if Intel were to adopt Alpha and redevelop Alpha,N then Alpha would magically become Industry Standard simply because it would beG a prorietary product with the Intel logo on it and Compaq would have noa control over it.  G Compaq defines "industry standard" as something it has no control over.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:53:17 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>,2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic", Message-ID: <3C51A996.14B6C88F@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:B > ISA (except perhaps HP, since supposedly the Itanic ISA supportsN > high-performance [?] PA-RISC emulation - but HP does have a credible PA-RISC# > road map for another few years), 5  L When you look at the potential merger of HP-Compaq,  ditching IA64 in favour. of Alpha would have interesting repercussions:  J HP would be the one ditching HP-UX and Tru64 which is technically superiorK would simply get a name change to HP-UX and run on Alpha which would be thet core platform for servers.  M What is really needed is for some company to name itseld "Industry standard",,M and buy  the rights to Alpha. Alpha would therefore be an "Industry Standard"lI platform. That company could also buy VMS, making it "Industry Standard".i  H And then said company could sue anyone who says that Windows is IndustryN Standard. After all, if someone says Windows is one of your products, it is an; insult to your image of quality and reliability :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:24:57 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>2 Subject: Re: Inquirer : "Intel *could* can Itanic"@ Message-ID: <Zph48.10559$vH6.584445@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C519B04.534DE065@videotron.ca... > Alan Greig wrote:h$ > > >Does this mean EV8 is on again? > >nI > > Nope because Capellas made clear that only "industry standard" is theED > > future. He defined industry standard as Windows, Linux and Intel >cL > If Intel drops IA64, and if Intel were to adopt Alpha and redevelop Alpha,G > then Alpha would magically become Industry Standard simply because itc would beI > a prorietary product with the Intel logo on it and Compaq would have noa > control over it.  L That would certainly be Intel's easiest (and quite possibly *only*) route toI obtaining a platform that could compete head-to-head with POWER:  even iftL Itanic sinks, it's not clear how Yamhill (and Hammer) would fare in the high3 end, given their need to cover the low end as well.   L But from a political standpoint ditching Itanic for Alpha (rather than usingH the Alpha team to patch it up as much as possible, or even to completelyI replace the underlying technology but retain the Itanic ISA, as some have # suggested) would be very difficult.r  G Practically, it might be possible.  Those partners who are committed todI Itanic might not really care that much if it turned out to have the Alphab@ ISA (except perhaps HP, since supposedly the Itanic ISA supportsL high-performance [?] PA-RISC emulation - but HP does have a credible PA-RISCL road map for another few years), since Intel seems to be taking over a greatK deal of the compiler effort anyway (and of course very good Alpha compilersbK already exist).  By all accounts Alpha (using FX!32) runs IA32 code a great0E deal faster than Itanic will until such time as Itanic's IA32 wart isRJ redesigned (in the post-Madison/Deerfield generation at the earliest), andI Microsoft shouldn't have a great deal of trouble updating the Alpha Win64pG code.  So the *only* disadvanage Alpha had - being owned by someone who., found it an embarrassment - would disappear.  K It makes a lot of sense, but I wouldn't hold your breath.  Especially since K Intel does not own *exclusive* rights to Alpha as it does to Itanic, and mygF impression is that they feel exclusivity is important here.  And sinceK Compaq has already licensed Alpha technology to others, obtaining exclusiveO: rights may now be impossible (though that's just a guess).   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 07:33:57 -08009 From: Andrey.Samorezov@volcanomail.com (Andrey Samorezov)  Subject: Looking for a VMS job= Message-ID: <5a26b91b.0201250733.7279b592@posting.google.com>g   Hi,n   I'm looking for VMS job.  8 Openvms.monster.com is useless for me (I'm from Ukraine)5 because of "H1-b" or "local candidates only" problem.d  * Does anyone know about projects in Europe,- Asia or CIS for which VMS experts are needed.u  6 Any tips, info, links etc would be highly appreciated.   Andrey   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:02:07 +0100-7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>n Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroupO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C7D@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>Q  @ > <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C74@cucexec.gbc.getronicB > s.nl>, "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> writes:> > > Please split this newsgroup in to comp.os.vms.advocacy and > > comp.os.vms.technical8. > > the volume of messages is getting too big. > F > 1. Taking all information out of comp.os.vms (as is required in suchE >    splits) would make it hard for those with borderline interest to  >    find the discussion.   L That is the down part, but there are enough people that crosspost or place a	 followup g in the right group.   u$ > 2. Where do pricing questions go ?  @ Offically no prices or ad's may be posted in the comp.os.* tree.  K If the question is what the prices is of a piece of hardware or software itO belongs in oF the c.o.v.technical  the followups that it too high in c.o.v.advocacy   G Ad's need to be placed directly in the c.o.v.advocacy, because they gete flamed directly / and flames need to be posted in c.o.v.advocacy.e  ? Also every thing to do with compaq and/or HP in c.o.v.advocacy.m  '   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:11:43 -0000,8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroupN Message-ID: <35666012DF4CD411BE940090279FA240010BF1BA@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  K It takes a couple of seconds or less to decide that a particular posting ise  of no interest and to delete it.  I There is indeed a great deal of junk but that's true of almost any activesG mail list or news group these days. It's a fact of life but the junk iscG easily ignored. One's junk threshold varies. At the moment I'm happy to H ignore and delete any junk reaching me at its current level. I know thatK some people have a junk threshold of 1 per month but such people will neverO! be happy whatever is implemented.-  K As for the content, I don't believe subdividing the VMS list/group would beaD useful. Most of the time people would be uncertain whether to chooseE technical or advocacy particularly when replying to or making generaliL comments on a previous posting and when people want to reach a wide audienceG they would simply use both lists. My experience of news groups and mailiK lists is that fine subdivisions just don't work well in practice and one ofaI the groups/lists will become the main active group for the overall topic.i   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk= Post: Denys Wilkinson Building, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UK?A Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:14:27 +0100q7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>  Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroupO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C7E@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>E   > ../..V# > >   I'd suggest switching over torF > >   digest-format mailings from INFO-VAX (this assumes that INFO-VAX@ > >   provides digest-format) or using a newsreader killfile to  > reduce the: > >   newsgroup traffic -- my own killfile already gets a  > regular workout. > 5 > What is a killfile? A filter for newsgroup readers?  >   G Killfile is something from the unix/midrange world, but basicly it is a  filter.y  H My filter makes overtime, because of the number of postings in INFO-VAX.  L Switching over to digest-format is not a option, the digest would get to big if yJ it's done on a daily bases. Digest works only at low-volume newsgroups and maillists. rF Secondly because my filters can only work with single messages and not digests.    I There has be done something and moderating is not a option. The technical  questions needs beK seen and spread fast and no moderator can work 24/7 with a response time of  10 minutes.           ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:44:40 +0800 / From: Vasu Kulkarni <vasu.kulkarni@digital.com>v Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup* Message-ID: <3C511AF8.4030809@digital.com>   Terry C Shannon wrote:   > , > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, Didier Morandi wrote: >  >  >>"Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote:s >>= >>>Please split this newsgroup in to comp.os.vms.advocacy ande >>>comp.os.vms.technical- >>>the volume of messages is getting too big.w >>>M >>Add my vote. >> >> >  > Mine as well.  >  >  and offcourse mine..    
 Vasu$Kulkarni  http://www.digitalindiasw.comu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:16:56 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup, Message-ID: <3C514CB8.EF299853@videotron.ca>  3 Why not create a newsgroup comp.sys.compaq.flames ?t   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 07:28:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)- Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroup3 Message-ID: <pql8NEpvJg2e@eisner.encompasserve.org>u   In article <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C7D@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>, "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> writes:e > A >> <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C74@cucexec.gbc.getronichC >> s.nl>, "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> writes:t? >> > Please split this newsgroup in to comp.os.vms.advocacy andh >> > comp.os.vms.technical/ >> > the volume of messages is getting too big.J >> 0G >> 1. Taking all information out of comp.os.vms (as is required in suchIF >>    splits) would make it hard for those with borderline interest to >>    find the discussion. >  > That is the down part,  G And getting more people enthusiastic about VMS is our most crucial job.w  A > but there are enough people that crosspost or place a followup   > in the right group.o  ( Crossposts are the worst part of Usenet.  % >> 2. Where do pricing questions go ?: > B > Offically no prices or ad's may be posted in the comp.os.* tree.  @ That settles it then -- <whatever>.vms.advocacy cannot be in the comp.os.* tree !   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 07:32:59 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)m Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroup3 Message-ID: <HycoqB9z5CRm@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C7E@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>, "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> writes:   K > There has be done something and moderating is not a option. The technicale > questions needs beM > seen and spread fast and no moderator can work 24/7 with a response time of  > 10 minutes.   5 A group of up to 100 moderators could make that work.n  A But I am concerned that "the powers that be" would require a name ? change, and comp.os.vms is just too straightforward to do that.   ? If people would prefer to be in a moderated discussion, sign up A telnet://eisner.decus.org .  The Notes system there is moderated,h@ but mainly it is so civil that fewer than 1 of out of 1000 posts need moderator action.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:20:57 +0100i7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>f Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroupO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C8F@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>f  @ > > There has be done something and moderating is not a option.  > The technicaln > > questions needs be? > > seen and spread fast and no moderator can work 24/7 with a r > response time of > > 10 minutes.  > 7 > A group of up to 100 moderators could make that work.c  @ No way we could get 100 moderators for only the c.o.v newsgroup.  uC > But I am concerned that "the powers that be" would require a nameTA > change, and comp.os.vms is just too straightforward to do that.a  A That is right. Something like comp.os.vms.moderated need to come.r    A > If people would prefer to be in a moderated discussion, sign upSC > telnet://eisner.decus.org .  The Notes system there is moderated,pB > but mainly it is so civil that fewer than 1 of out of 1000 posts > need moderator action.  V I have only http and mail access and so have a lot of people working behind firewalls.? Some people forget that not everyone has news or telnet access.r            .   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:29:38 +0100.7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com>  Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroupO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C90@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>   9 > >> 1. Taking all information out of comp.os.vms (as is a > required in suchH > >>    splits) would make it hard for those with borderline interest to > >>    find the discussion. > >  > > That is the down part, > = > And getting more people enthusiastic about VMS is our most a > crucial job. > C > > but there are enough people that crosspost or place a followup   > > in the right group.k > * > Crossposts are the worst part of Usenet.  A You can filter that you only read posts that are not crossposted.dA It works very well and very rarely you mis interesting postings, eK because everyone includes and always in the crosspost becomes a uncrossed. l  ' > >> 2. Where do pricing questions go ?e > > D > > Offically no prices or ad's may be posted in the comp.os.* tree. > B > That settles it then -- <whatever>.vms.advocacy cannot be in the > comp.os.* tree !  a If there is a <whatever>.vms.<whatever> newsgroup more people are getting enthusiastic about VMS.sb I'm thinking maybe biz.vms.takeover is very good idea digital, compaq or HP is constantly selling % and buying VMS rights to each others.   Z I don't think that everyone know the difference between digital VMS, compaq VMS or HP VMS.3 Or Digital UNIX, Tru64, HP-UNIX, OSF/1 or Ultrix.  s   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:42:56 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup3 Message-ID: <ph61ICabHkjx@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  U In article <3C50E208.A2365C07@gmx.ch>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:n > 5 > What is a killfile? A filter for newsgroup readers?p  D    Yes.  Your newsreader should allow you to ignore posts by author,C    subject and/or group.  This info is stored in the killfile, mosti,    readers impement it via the kill command.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2002 14:49:51 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)/ Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup' Message-ID: <a2rraf$ss5$1@joe.rice.edu>-  6 Dijk, Jeroen van (Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com) wrote:< : Please split this newsgroup in to comp.os.vms.advocacy and : comp.os.vms.technical<, : the volume of messages is getting too big. :t  C Wait until Carly decides to utter the fate of VMS after the merger.@6 There may be a need for a subgroup under comp.os, e.g.      comp.os.legacy.hp.mpe    comp.os.legacy.hp.tru64   and perhaps:      comp.os.legacy.hp.vms  K : Not in the alt tree, because otherwise nobody can find the new newsgroup.t :aD A lot of people can't find the comp.unix.tru64 newsgroup now, and soK continue to post to the comp.unix.osf.misc & comp.unix.osf.osf1 newsgroups.i  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 07:19:11 -0800) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)  Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0201250719.66629951@posting.google.com>s  > hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message  > D >   Do you actually believe that partitioning the "data" will help?    Yes, and no.   comp.os.vms  comp.os.vms.advocacy comp.os.vms.political :-) ! comp.os.vms.vegemite-and-spam :-)d  H And _everyone_ flames the you know what out of anyone who gets it wrong?  J The "VMS crowd" is not the "Window(tm)" crowd and I expect (can be) better behaved.  G Yup, hard decision, however we do tend to have a slightly "stay longer" D crowd of people here - they might, or might not, stick to the rules.   comp.os.vms as the entry point?-  G comp.os.ms-window(tm)s.* (damn them to hell) have more than one NG - atoD some point we have to make it known we have a bigger (something that everyone wants).  E I guess we should not play chicken little. We might be able to managep it better than they do.p  s
 Who knows?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 09:32:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)u Subject: RE: New VMS newsgroup3 Message-ID: <3YrTtc21ZyD$@eisner.encompasserve.org>h   In article <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C90@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>, "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> writes:t > : >> >> 1. Taking all information out of comp.os.vms (as is  >> required in sucheI >> >>    splits) would make it hard for those with borderline interest tou >> >>    find the discussion.o >> > r >> > That is the down part,d >> l> >> And getting more people enthusiastic about VMS is our most  >> crucial job.h >> iD >> > but there are enough people that crosspost or place a followup  >> > in the right group. >> n+ >> Crossposts are the worst part of Usenet.t > C > You can filter that you only read posts that are not crossposted.-  $ Which VMS newsreader provides that ?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 09:33:57 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)g Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup3 Message-ID: <bnfCKz68WlGO@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  i In article <55f85d77.0201250719.66629951@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:   L > The "VMS crowd" is not the "Window(tm)" crowd and I expect (can be) better
 > behaved.  + That has not been proven in this newsgroup.d   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:37:59 +0000 (UTC)p From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup+ Message-ID: <a2ru4n$d8e$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   i In article <55f85d77.0201250719.66629951@posting.google.com>, P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) writes:u? >hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote in message   >> bE >>   Do you actually believe that partitioning the "data" will help? t >t
 >Yes, and no.s >t >comp.os.vms >comp.os.vms.advocacy  >comp.os.vms.political :-) t" >comp.os.vms.vegemite-and-spam :-) > I >And _everyone_ flames the you know what out of anyone who gets it wrong?u >gK >The "VMS crowd" is not the "Window(tm)" crowd and I expect (can be) bettere	 >behaved.n >lH >Yup, hard decision, however we do tend to have a slightly "stay longer"E >crowd of people here - they might, or might not, stick to the rules.e >w  >comp.os.vms as the entry point? >tH >comp.os.ms-window(tm)s.* (damn them to hell) have more than one NG - atE >some point we have to make it known we have a bigger (something that] >everyone wants).- >t  2 Well there is the whole of the vmsnet hierachy ...   vmsnet.alpha vmsnet.announce  vmsnet.announce.newusers l vmsnet.decus.journal   vmsnet.decus.lugss vmsnet.employmento vmsnet.epsilon-cdx
 vmsnet.groupsc vmsnet.infosystems.gopher  vmsnet.infosystems.misc  l vmsnet.internals vmsnet.mail.misc   vmsnet.mail.mx 3 vmsnet.mail.pmdf n vmsnet.miscs vmsnet.networks.desktop.misc a# vmsnet.networks.desktop.pathworks  d! vmsnet.networks.management.decmccd vmsnet.networks.management.misc  vmsnet.networks.misc A vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.cmu-tek   vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.misc       vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.multinet  vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.tcpware vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.ucx   vmsnet.networks.tcp-ip.wintcp  vmsnet.pdp-11      vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest vmsnet.sources vmsnet.sources.d vmsnet.sources.games
 vmsnet.sysmgto vmsnet.test 
 vmsnet.tpu vmsnet.uucp    vmsnet.vms-posix             O  O Its arguable that most technical discussions should really be in vmsnet.sysmgt,-K vmsnet.internals, vmsnet.alpha or vms.networks.tcp-ip.{particular ip stack}z rather than in comp.os.vms :)r    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 09:07:57 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>$ Subject: Re: Newbie Help on Security- Message-ID: <87wuy7tez6.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  6 Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:  A > yeah, why do you need a firewall anyway. It it wasn't for thosecE > pesky windows and unix boes on your LAN you could dispense with it.   2 > with tongue in cheek.D  F Remove the tongue! With SSH, having the VMS machine in parellel to theC firewall so you can sort out the wreckage via VMS. :) Plus, if they.E find an exposed mmachine, with luck they will stub their toes on thate8 before they try your FW. And the alarms can tip you off.   But SSH is a MUST for this!!   -- l< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:45:07 +0100 , From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at>* Subject: Re: No logical name match at boot8 Message-ID: <1011966296.807957@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>  @ "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag- news:qk0j1skLY1yA@eisner.encompasserve.org...f= > In article <KXT38.387$PZ4.8010@news.cpqcorp.net>, "labadie" # <gerard.labadie@compaq.com> writes:, > > Check the Sysgen parameter > > lgi_calloutn > > put it back to 0 > >d > > Regardsl > >e
 > > Gerard >wC > That sounds logical (although I am not the one with the problem).- >- > I am thoroughly impressed.  I I am too. I am _the_ one with the problem :-) This was the solution. Manyu thanks!:  D BTW: are there some layered products changing this parameter? I haveI installed and configured a lot of network products (WANDD, X25) some timeeG ago, but  I can't remember that one if these products performs external F authentication (which is the purpose of this system parameter). Crazy!  : Anyway, merci beaucoup pour votre aide et salut de Vienne,   Ferry  ---y   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:25:07 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r* Subject: Re: No logical name match at boot3 Message-ID: <UQ3ExnGf3QWw@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  g In article <1011966296.807957@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>, "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> writes:pB > "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag/ > news:qk0j1skLY1yA@eisner.encompasserve.org...w> >> In article <KXT38.387$PZ4.8010@news.cpqcorp.net>, "labadie"% > <gerard.labadie@compaq.com> writes:  >> > Check the Sysgen parametero >> > lgi_callout >> > put it back to 0d >> > >> > Regards >> > >> > Gerard  >>D >> That sounds logical (although I am not the one with the problem). >> >> I am thoroughly impressed.a > K > I am too. I am _the_ one with the problem :-) This was the solution. Manyx	 > thanks!t > F > BTW: are there some layered products changing this parameter? I haveK > installed and configured a lot of network products (WANDD, X25) some time-I > ago, but  I can't remember that one if these products performs external<H > authentication (which is the purpose of this system parameter). Crazy!  - DCS is the only one from Compaq I can recall.e  C But a non-zero value of the parameter must always be accompanied by D defining the logical name.  Since the logical name cannot be presentE on boot, the parameter should never be non-zero on boot.  Any producte$ that set it that way would be wrong.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:43:28 +0100e, From: "Ferry Bolhar" <bol@adv.magwien.gv.at> Subject: Re: Old VCS licenses/8 Message-ID: <1011973395.304494@mozart.adv.magwien.gv.at>  G > Anyone out there who has some unused PAK's for VAXCLUSTER-CONSOLE andn > willing to give/sell them ?aJ > We want to add a few more consoles to watch, but can not get any license > pak's anymore.  I We have removed our VCS environment 2 years ago, but I still have the oldw	 VCS PAKs.n If you're interested, mail me.  H > If I remember correctly; VCS was renamed to Polycenter Console Manager< > and then donated/sold to CA who converted it to CommandIT.G > We don't want to upgrade, just keep running version 1.3 and add a few- > extra lines.   You remember correctly.0  G The CA product provides more functionality, but is _very_ expensive (atc< least it was when we decided to remove the VCS environment).   Greetings, Ferry   -- Ing. Ferry BolharT% Municipality of Vienna, Department 14  A-1010 Vienna / AUSTRIAa E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 12:36:02 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)gP Subject: Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an3 Message-ID: <3yah1SQIBolJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>u  P In article <3C5194D8.CF2D11EB@ACM.org>, "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@ACM.org> writes: > Nic Clews wrote:( >> We recently had a case of someone whoJ >> change their password so many times, it blew the password history! What6 >> I can't get over was they used generated passwords!  D The field test of password history did not have that feature -- thatC is why it is always good to seek wider input (as in field test) forN your software.  ? > Maybe they rolled through them until they got one they liked.1  @ No, I think the point is that a normal user who tries to use the@ overflow the history buffer so they can choose the same passwordC again will find that once the history buffer is full their usernamev9 is automatically changed to require a generated password.g  > A user who was already using generated passwords should see no- difference when they fill the history buffer.J   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:33:55 +0000s( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>Y Subject: Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English ,) Message-ID: <3C5142A3.EE849A4A@127.0.0.1>o   Michael Austin wrote:l > < > Sheesh... someone has WAY too much time on their hands.... >  :)p  F Long, long time ago when I had too much time on my hands [more or lessD when password dictionaries were introduced] I split it up into plain2 text files of all the A words, B words, C words...  C Anyway, it's an indexed file so surely you can add your own and usee CONVERT to merge them in.-  F Perhaps we could start off with Malcolm's original observations of theG 'missing words' and Hoff could find somewhere to host the plaintext and5@ a tiddly bit of DCL to create the 'new and improved' dictionary.  > Not heaps of use to us though, we use a password policy moduleH preventing purely alpha passwords. We recently had a case of someone whoG change their password so many times, it blew the password history! Whate3 I can't get over was they used generated passwords!h   -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:24:41 GMTd& From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@ACM.org>Y Subject: Re: Origins and dated nature of passord dictionary (was Re: bkjfn is an English i' Message-ID: <3C5194D8.CF2D11EB@ACM.org>.   Nic Clews wrote:' > We recently had a case of someone whosI > change their password so many times, it blew the password history! What 5 > I can't get over was they used generated passwords!2  = Maybe they rolled through them until they got one they liked.i   -- f C.W.Holeman II  cwhii@acm.org				http://emle.org- http://also.as/cwhii		http://JulianLocals.comb   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:44:04 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Re: Pro mergerr+ Message-ID: <3C518B54.1AD5BBF8@caltech.edu>a   Tony Scandora wrote: > G > I've felt pretty lonely in seeing the merit of two strong engineeringcM > companies uniting their efforts to move from their own server architectures L > to Itanium, along with other benefits of the merger that the Hewletts, theE > Packards, Wall Street, the Gartner Group, and a bunch of nay-sayingS > customers have not seen. > % > ZD just published this in a letter:l > K > "Fiorina wants HP to "own" the high-end server market. Carly Fiorina dare H > not say it, but I can: She wants to buy the two best high-end computerL > operating systems on the planet -- Non-Stop Kernel (Tandem) & VMS (Digital* > Equipment Corp.), both owned by Compaq."  > Too much reading between the lines and praying for the best.  < Remember when we had hopes that Compaq would pick up VMS and0 Alpha and market them?  Then look what happened.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:11:46 +01008; From: "Thomas Egenberger" <thomas.egenberger@technidata.de> 4 Subject: Re: Problem with TSM and ETS-Terminalserver@ Message-ID: <a2rehq$mbd$1@newsreader1.lb-lan.ka.de.kpnqwest.net>  > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> schrieb im Newsbeitrag$ news:3C50E03F.3080100@qsl.network... > WILLIAM WEBB wrote:a >cA > > I'm assuming that John's talking about CAPTURE_CONFIG scriptsuC > > you can run under TSM to capture and restore terminal settings.p >  >  > To be more specific: >p> > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware/freeware50/tsm_tools/ >n2 > Get_my_server_setup.com uploads a single server. >u- > It even knows how to save service settings.i >uC > Upload_all_servers.com, uploads all servers that exist in the TSMr	 database.g >e >oC > > You might have to do a bit of customization to get them to grabcD > > the right data as the ones out of the box tend to be written for > > DEC terminal servers.. >r >!I > These seem to work on DecServer 200, 300, 90, and the Lantronix models.n >nJ > Of course I do not remember the exact Lantronix models that I built them' > for.  EPS-2 seems to come to my mind.l >  >n  < I tried this command procedure, after I got the TSM working.9 Unfortunately it doesnot work with our Lantronix ETS16PR.H   Thomas   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:44:39 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofm- Message-ID: <87665ruumg.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  ' JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes:n   > Martin Vorlaender wrote:- > >> > What is a "dll" in a VMS environment ?r  D > > It's a (shared?) executable offering the entry points defined by > > the ISAPI interface.  6 > Why not use the VMS standard shared images ? (.exe )  F They are mapped at run time with... <mumble>... that find image symbol thing :)  M BTW, a process creation with no DCL, symbols etc propergated on VMS or a unixTL fork/exec are about the same over head. An in image fork on unix is extremlyN fast, and as we all know, the full 9 yards on VMS is not! But a process on VMSC normally gives you a different image, on unix it is (a lot ) extra.d   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:38:09 +0000o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>* Subject: Recently seen in SDA, ANAL/SYS...) Message-ID: <3C5143A1.331E2410@127.0.0.1>.   It's Friday.   SDA> EXAM/I @PCr4 ZZZZZZZZZZZ+82914:      BR              R31,#XFFFFFF SDA> -   My, how we laughed.a   -- J( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:41:45 +0100 (MET)n9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>aI Subject: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup) ; Message-ID: <01KDHJ09OGOI8Y566K@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m   Hoff wrote:p    C >   Do you actually believe that partitioning the "data" will help?n > I >   Consider me to be exceedingly skeptical here, and a definite NO vote. H >   I personally seriously doubt that there is any chance of keeping theL >   proposed comp.os.vms.advocacy and comp.os.vms.technical groups distinct.I >   All that said, I do sympathize -- I understand why you'd like to try mI >   this, and I understand the feeling of being at the end of a firehose. G >   I simply don't believe the proposed approach will work in practice.g   I agree with Hoff here.e  E Note that with a good newsreader, it is easy to kill all threads one oE doesn't want.  We should concentrate on encouraging folks to stay on -; topic or, if appropriate, change the subject of the thread.l  I I don't know if Info-VAX provides a digest format, but that's not really D> a solution since one still has to separate things, and with a : high-traffic group one might want to respond more quickly.  H For those folks (like myself at the moment) who have to rely on Info-VAXE rather than NNTP access, I have written the following.  Comments and  H suggestions for improvement welcome!  Of course, it can be used to sort I through ANY email folder, but I suspect that going through mailing lists l/ after a period of absence will be its main use.M   Enjoy!  H -----------8<-----------------------------------------------------------   $! THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER.COM $!& $! handy for efficiently reading email $! $! $! parameter existence $! $  IF F$LENGTH(P1) .EQ. 0  $  THEN  $    WSO ""c/ $    WSO "pass name of folder to be read as P1"t9 $    WSO "optionally pass name of temporary folder as P2"9	 $    EXIT0 $  ELSEi $    READ_FOLDER  = P1 $  ENDIF $  IF F$LENGTH(P2) .GT. 0  $  THEN  $    FILE_FOLDER  = P2 @ $  ELSEc $    FILE_FOLDER := ZYXW $  ENDIF $! $! $! temporary files $!1 $  MF := SYS$SCRATCH:THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER_MAI.LIS;r1 $  LF := SYS$SCRATCH:THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER_DIR.LIS; 1 $  XF := SYS$SCRATCH:THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER_XXX.LIS;h1 $  NF := SYS$SCRATCH:THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER_NEW.LIS;-1 $  DF := SYS$SCRATCH:THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER_DEL.LIS;11 $  RF := SYS$SCRATCH:THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER_REA.LIS;k. $  IF  F$SEARCH(MF) .NES. "" THEN DELETE 'MF'*. $  IF  F$SEARCH(LF) .NES. "" THEN DELETE 'LF'*. $  IF  F$SEARCH(LF) .NES. "" THEN DELETE 'XF'*. $  IF  F$SEARCH(LF) .NES. "" THEN DELETE 'NF'*. $  IF  F$SEARCH(DF) .NES. "" THEN DELETE 'DF'*. $  IF  F$SEARCH(RF) .NES. "" THEN DELETE 'RF'* $! $! $! parameters OK?a $!C $!check for existence of folder to be read and exit if not present?c $! $! $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE $  OPEN/WRITE MAIL_FILE 'MF' $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  MAIL"/ $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     SELECT ''READ_FOLDER'"w $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     QUIT" $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  EXIT" $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE# $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$OUTPUT 'LF',	 $  @ 'MF'  $  DELETE/NOLOG 'MF' $  SEA/OUT='XF' 'LF' "%MAIL-"e $  DELETE 'LF' $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_STATUS $  OPEN/READ MAIL_STATUS 'XF's $  READ MAIL_STATUS MESSAGEm $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_STATUS $  DELETE 'XF'L $  IF MESSAGE .EQS. "%MAIL-E-NOTEXIST, folder ''READ_FOLDER' does not exist" $  THENi $    WSO ""eJ $    WSO "the specified folder to be read (''READ_FOLDER') does not exist"	 $    EXITa $  ENDIF $! $!> $!check for existence of temporary folder and exit if present? $! $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE $  OPEN/WRITE MAIL_FILE 'MF' $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  MAIL"/ $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     SELECT ''FILE_FOLDER'"  $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     QUIT" $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  EXIT" $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE# $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$OUTPUT 'LF'o	 $  @ 'MF'  $  DELETE/NOLOG 'MF' $  SEA/OUT='XF' 'LF' "%MAIL-"k $  DELETE 'LF' $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_STATUS $  OPEN/READ MAIL_STATUS 'XF'  $  READ MAIL_STATUS MESSAGE  $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_STATUS $  DELETE 'XF'8 $  IF F$EXTRACT(0,18,MESSAGE) .EQS. "%MAIL-I-SELECTED, " $  THENt $    WSO ""wI $    WSO "the specified temporary folder (''FILE_FOLDER') already exists"m	 $    EXITs $  ENDIF $! $! $! symbols needed laterm $! $  QUOTE = """"uO $  MAX_LENGTH = F$GETDVI("SYS$OUTPUT","DEVBUFSIZ") - F$LENGTH(FILE_FOLDER) - 11c $! $! $! move to the temporary folder.A $! not really necessary, but allows incoming mail to be stored inr1 $! the original, presumably familiar folder name   $! $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE $  OPEN/WRITE MAIL_FILE 'MF' $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  MAIL"/ $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     SELECT ''READ_FOLDER'" ; $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     FILE/ALL/NOCONFIRM ''FILE_FOLDER'"w $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     QUIT" $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  EXIT" $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE	 $  @ 'MF'n $  DELETE/NOLOG 'MF' $! $! $! get a list of subjectsi $! $  OPEN/WRITE MAIL_FILE 'MF' $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  MAIL", $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     DIR ''FILE_FOLDER'" $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "     QUIT" $  WRITE MAIL_FILE "$  EXIT" $  CLOSE/NOLOG MAIL_FILE# $  DEFINE/USER_MODE SYS$OUTPUT 'LF' 	 $  @ 'MF'e $  DELETE/NOLOG 'MF'8 $  SORT/NODUPLICATES/KEY=(POSITION:40,SIZE=41) 'LF' 'LF' $! $!> $! we want only the real subject, i.e. treat original message  $! and replies equally $  CLOSE/NOLOG DIR_LIS $  OPEN/READ DIR_LIS 'LF'  $  CLOSE/NOLOG NEW_LIS $  OPEN/WRITE NEW_LIS 'NF'	 $RE_LOOP: ' $  READ/END=END_RE_LOOP DIR_LIS SUBJECT  $  LENGTH = F$LENGTH(SUBJECT) * $  TOPIC = F$EXTRACT(40,LENGTH-40,SUBJECT) $  LENGTH = F$LENGTH(TOPIC).8 $  IF F$EDIT(F$EXTRACT(0,4,TOPIC),"UPCASE") .EQS. "RE: " $  THENl- $    BARE_SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(4,LENGTH,TOPIC) 5 $    SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(0,40,SUBJECT) + BARE_SUBJECT< $  ENDIF $  WRITE NEW_LIS SUBJECT
 $GOTO RE_LOOPe
 $END_RE_LOOP:  $  CLOSE/NOLOG DIR_LIS $  DELETE 'LF'*. $  CLOSE/NOLOG NEW_LISG $! the double sort is needed to retain empty subjects but put them lastY8 $  SORT/NODUPLICATES/KEY=(POSITION:41,SIZE=40) 'NF' 'NF'= $  SORT/NODUPLICATES/KEY=(POSITION:41,SIZE=40,DESC) 'NF' 'NF'c $! $! $! take some actiony $! $  OPEN/READ NEW_LIS 'NF'n $  R = 0 $  D = 0
 $ACTION_LOOP:e $! get rid of bogus records + $  READ/END=DELETE_SUBJECTS NEW_LIS SUBJECTo4 $  IF F$EXTRACT(0,8,SUBJECT) .EQS. "You have" .OR. -4       F$EXTRACT(0,8,SUBJECT) .EQS. "        " .OR. -4       F$EXTRACT(0,8,SUBJECT) .EQS. "    # Fr" .OR. -4            F$LENGTH(SUBJECT) .EQS. 0               -    THEN GOTO ACTION_LOOP  $! we want only the real subject $  LENGTH = F$LENGTH(SUBJECT)a, $  SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(40,LENGTH-40,SUBJECT)	 $  WSO ""  $  IF F$LENGTH(SUBJECT) .EQ. 0 $  THEN  $!   handle empty subject lines - $!   later, get this from some "include" file  $    ESC[0,8] = 27 $    BOLD = ESC + "[1m"- $    NORM = ESC + "[0m"5O $    WSO BOLD + "[none]" + NORM + " (will be added to read list automatically)": $    ANSWER := R $    GOTO ALREADY_ANSWERED $  ELSEG $    WSO SUBJECT $  ENDIF	 $READ_IT:a	 $  WSO ""14 $  READ/PROMPT="Read or Delete? " SYS$COMMAND ANSWER0 $  ANSWER=F$EDIT(F$EXTRACT(0,1,ANSWER),"UPCASE") ALREADY_ANSWERED:a $  IF ANSWER .EQS. "R" $  THEN  $    R = R + 1 $    IF R .EQ. 1	 $    THEN. $      CLOSE/NOLOG READ_FILE  $      OPEN/WRITE READ_FILE 'RF'
 $    ENDIF $    WRITE READ_FILE SUBJECT $  ELSEe $    IF ANSWER .EQS. "D"	 $    THENl $      D = D + 1 $      IF D .EQ. 1 $      THEN>  $        CLOSE/NOLOG DELETE_FILE$ $        OPEN/WRITE DELETE_FILE 'DF'$ $        WRITE DELETE_FILE "$  MAIL" $      ENDIF $      GOSUB REPLACE_QUOTES_G $      WRITE DELETE_FILE "   SELECT ''FILE_FOLDER'/SUBJ=""''SUBJECT'""" ( $      WRITE DELETE_FILE "   DELETE/ALL"	 $    ELSEr $      GOTO READ_ITt
 $    ENDIF $  ENDIF $GOTO ACTION_LOOPd $DELETE_SUBJECTS:o $! $!  $! delete messages to be deleted $! $  CLOSE/NOLOG NEW_LIS $  DELETE 'NF'*  $  IF D .GT. 0 $  THENt" $    WRITE DELETE_FILE "     QUIT"  $    WRITE DELETE_FILE "$  EXIT" $    CLOSE/NOLOG DELETE_FILE $    @ 'DF'v $    DELETE 'DF' $  ENDIF& $  IF R .EQ. 0 THEN GOTO READ_LOOP_END $! $! $! read messages to be readc $! $  CLOSE/NOLOG READ_FILE $  OPEN/READ READ_FILE 'RF'n	 $  I = -1o $READ_LOOP:c+ $  READ/END=READ_LOOP_END READ_FILE SUBJECT- $  I = I + 1 $  K = R - I	 $  WSO ""r2 $  WSO "''I' of ''R' threads read; ''K' remaining"	 $  WSO ""a, $  SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(0,MAX_LENGTH,SUBJECT) $  GOSUB REPLACE_QUOTES0G $! not only the length, but also the allowed length has perhaps changedP' $  NEW_LENGTH = MAX_LENGTH + 2*REPLACEDn, $  SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(0,NEW_LENGTH,SUBJECT) $! make sure quotes are matchednF $! this assumes that a quoted string is at least three characters longC $! I will add more sophisticated code if a shorter string not just e. $! appears but actually causes me any problems; $  IF F$EXTRACT(NEW_LENGTH-1,1,SUBJECT) .EQS. QUOTE .AND. -t;       F$EXTRACT(NEW_LENGTH-4,1,SUBJECT) .NES. QUOTE THEN  - 1       SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(0,NEW_LENGTH-3,SUBJECT) . $  WSO "SEL ''FILE_FOLDER'/SUB=""''SUBJECT'"""$ $  DEFINE/USER SYS$INPUT SYS$COMMAND $  MAIL  $GOTO READ_LOOPe $READ_LOOP_END:  $  IF R .GT. 0 $  THEN  $    CLOSE/NOLOG READ_FILE $    DELETE 'RF' $  ENDIF $  EXITy $! $! $! GOSUB $! $REPLACE_QUOTES: $  REPLACED = 0V
 $LOOP_QUOTES:a $  GRAVE = "`" $  LENGTH = F$LENGTH(SUBJECT)-  $  LOC = F$LOCATE(QUOTE,SUBJECT) $  IF LOC .LT. LENGTHr $  THENl $  REPLACED = REPLACED + 1! $    SUBJECT[LOC,1] := "''GRAVE'"t $    GOTO LOOP_QUOTESc $  ELSEw $    GOTO INSERT_QUOTESg $  ENDIF $INSERT_QUOTES:e $  LENGTH = F$LENGTH(SUBJECT)e  $  LOC = F$LOCATE(GRAVE,SUBJECT) $  IF LOC .LT. LENGTH. $  THENe9 $    SUBJECT = F$EXTRACT(0,LOC,SUBJECT) + """""""""" + - e%      F$EXTRACT(LOC+1,LENGTH,SUBJECT) t $    GOTO INSERT_QUOTESd $  ELSE  $    RETURNn $  ENDIF   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:49:25 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>kM Subject: Re: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)o; Message-ID: <01KDHJNB5RNU8ZI8TR@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>o   > $! THREAD_EMAIL_FOLDER.COM  I In case it's not obvious, the idea is that one cuts and pastes (or types oF in) the MAIL command displayed on the screen and then exits from MAIL  when that thread is read.t   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:34:20 -0600 (CST)r& From: Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org>M Subject: Re: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup) - Message-ID: <01KDHB2TOQCO00F0GT@SEMATECH.Org>h   Phillip Helbig wrote:R >Hoff wrote:    D >>   Do you actually believe that partitioning the "data" will help? >>J >>   Consider me to be exceedingly skeptical here, and a definite NO vote.I >>   I personally seriously doubt that there is any chance of keeping the M >>   proposed comp.os.vms.advocacy and comp.os.vms.technical groups distinct.iI >>   All that said, I do sympathize -- I understand why you'd like to try,J >>   this, and I understand the feeling of being at the end of a firehose.H >>   I simply don't believe the proposed approach will work in practice.   >I agree with Hoff here.  I I also agree with Hoff.  If there are 2 groups, I will read both to avoidlH missing something of interest.  With the inevitable cross-postings, I'llC see the "junk" more often, further diluting the meaningful content.e   Drew  L ============================================================================6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575 9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600  2706 Montopolis Drive-K Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech.lB     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98DL ============================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:42:42 +0100 7 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> M Subject: RE: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)eO Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C91@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>l   > >I agree with Hoff here. > > > I also agree with Hoff.  If there are 2 groups, I will read  > both to avoide6 > missing something of interest.  With the inevitable  > cross-postings, I'llE > see the "junk" more often, further diluting the meaningful content.e >   M A good newsreader will mark the crossposting you have read in the other groupo- as read and you will only see the junk once. i  S I'm filtering now the posting pure on keywords that indicate meaningful contents orr- people that always say something meaningful. m  D So do always read the posting of Hoff, but not from Fred Kleinsorge.  G With all respect to both, but Fred reacts also on offtopic postings.       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 10:04:03 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) M Subject: RE: separating the wheat from the chaff (was: RE: New VMS newsgroup)o3 Message-ID: <kLlMH$97etuK@eisner.encompasserve.org>b   In article <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B511011C6C91@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>, "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vanDijk@Getronics.com> writes:  >> >I agree with Hoff here.  >> -? >> I also agree with Hoff.  If there are 2 groups, I will read 8 >> both to avoid7 >> missing something of interest.  With the inevitable : >> cross-postings, I'll-F >> see the "junk" more often, further diluting the meaningful content. >> e > O > A good newsreader will mark the crossposting you have read in the other group0/ > as read and you will only see the junk once.    B My experience with ANUNEWS is that it does that, but only for someC threads.  I believe there is a technical detail regarding what some F posters do to make a previously cross-posted thread become dual-posted for all subsequent replies.   ? My other experience with ANUNEWS is that a skip (not kill) of anA thread does not transfer over to the other group.  I have more orp3 less given up reading comp.sys.dec because of this.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:51:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com># Subject: Re: Veritas Client for VMSE- Message-ID: <871ygfuuac.fsf@prep.synonet.com>o  % "Nobody" <nowhere@nobody.com> writes:t  J > I am tasked with testing the Veritas Client for VMS and I was wondering:  - > - Has anyone had success implementing this?m+ > - What kind of gotchas have you run into?eI > - Have you had problems restoring data during a data recovery exercise?L  C You will not be able to use it on any system disk. Backup keeps the C directorys correct, and also re-writes the boot pointers to the newo location of the boot file.  @ You can not use it for any RDB files, you must use RMU for them,  G and I doubt it knows how to do the special magic stuff with RMS journalr5 files. Plus if you have any error, you lose the data.   H > - Have you tried using the freeware VMS TAR to recover data from tape?  K Not recover. Unpack tarballs, yes, but no way would I trust tar for backup.    -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.s@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:28:20 -0500d1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> . Subject: Re: What is unix for SEARCH /WINDOW=02 Message-ID: <3C515D74.632EA456@firstdbasource.com>   "C.W.Holeman II" wrote:  >  > What is unix for:e >  >         $ SEARCH /WINDOW=0  E I needed to use a "/WINDOW" qualifier on a unix box without writing a.D boat-load of code.  I ended up using ggrep (gnuGrep) which can use a1 window qualifier... I used this in a perl script:u  ; 	$msg = `ggrep -i -h -a -A$after -B$before $STRING $PFILE`;. -- 4   Regards,   Michael Austin       >  > TIAP >  > -- > C.W.Holeman II9 > cwhii@acm.org                           http://emle.orga9 > http://also.as/cwhii            http://JulianLocals.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:14:23 +01001/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>H6 Subject: re:  What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC6 Message-ID: <00A0892A.AB8A3FD6.7@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>  G As a straight enquiry, there's nothing wrong with this. But as has been G established on many a time, one can always find things for which DCL is . easier than unix shells. But also, vice versa.  L When this query came up, I'd just established how easily on Linux I can findJ all files matching a particular pattern in a directory that's more than a < ~month old. (explicitly *not* DIR[...]*.TXT /CRE/BEFORE... )  C for x in `find . -type d -mtime +30 -print` ; do ls $x/*.txt ; donef  / Not hard in DCL either, but quite a bit longer.i  F Note also that this is simply a specific example of a general form forM interating over the elements of an abritraty set of words, however generated.t3 You can simply type them, which can be very useful;   ? for x in dave dee dozy beaky mick titch ; do whatever $x ; donee  : Unix shell scripting may be a pain if you started on DCL. . I felt that way at first . But I've met enoughK folks who started on bash or csh struggling with DCL, to see that it's moreoE a matter of prejudice and/or laziness rather than either being reallya? bad. If you really want domething to be unkind about, as alwayssB look to Microsoft. Struggled with a BAT recently? (Tip if ever youK have to .BAT, keep the DOS version of GAWK in your toolkit, all 48Kb of it.d/ Or get cygwin and use bash on Windoze instead).s  I My verdict, FWIW: DCL is a bit easier for most of the humdrum things that8E turn up, and less likely to result in a bullet in your foot. However,AE it's less general-purpose. And if you really want, writing a DCL-like D command language on unix would be tedious rather than hard. (I think  it's been done, and is on sale).  F There are a few *real* pains with Unix, but IMO command language isn't one of them. Peace,0   	Yours, 
 		Nigel ArnotR- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."R   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:14:27 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org5 Subject: Re: What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC 3 Message-ID: <a0izq25d32Ai@eisner.encompasserve.org>N  p In article <slrna50q3r.6n5.seibel_r@localhost.localdomain>, seibel_r@localhost.localdomain (Rich Seibel) writes:I > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:27:15 GMT, C.W.Holeman II <cwhii@ACM.org> wrote:E >>What is unix for:C >> >>	$ SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC  >>F > If I understand this correctly, you want to search a directory tree G > starting at the current directory for all directories named XYZ then  J > search the contents of those directories for all the files that contain  > the letters ABC. > / > find . -type d -name XYZ -exec grep ABC {} \;! >  > should do the trick.  F You need to distinguish between grepping a directory file and grepping' the files catalogued in that directory.I   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 09:01:46 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABCD3 Message-ID: <U7GXswaG0rod@eisner.encompasserve.org>M  O In article <3C506012.6A950D3@ACM.org>, "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii@ACM.org> writes:T > What is unix for:  >  > 	$ SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABC'      grep ABC `find -type f`   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:09:07 -0500O+ From: Brendan Welch <brendan_welch@uml.edu> 5 Subject: Re: What is unix for: SEARCH [...XYZ]*.* ABCx' Message-ID: <3C517513.A3832804@uml.edu>I  ? I am learning from all of these responses.  But let me put in aW< good word for the free version of VMS which was (still is, I% hope) available from www.accelr8.com.E  > I admit I was pulled kicking and screaming into the Unix world< from VMS.  I still use some VMS commands there.  Unless I am: missing something, one example would be that the "delete" A command gives you more control against wild errors when used withGA the "/log" switch.  It also handles subdirectories better ( [...]% )L  ? I also find that it better in not running into a limit (I thinkp< it is 1000 files) being found by a wild-card  "rm"  command.   --? Brendan Welch, system analyst, Univ. of Massachusetts - Lowell,L W1LPG    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 06:29:57 -0800% From: robert.james@uk.ngrid.com (rob)!6 Subject: Wierd File Reading Behaviour - Dec C on Alpha= Message-ID: <1a181957.0201250629.174e192d@posting.google.com>!   Hi,O  - Compaq Alpha OpenVMS 7.2-1, Compaq C v6.2-008   @ I have a tiny C code snippet that opens an ascii file containingB variable length, comma delimited , newline terminated records  for
 reading only.M  C The file contains about 1million records and is about 60MB is size._  
 If I just use    fopen... loop	   fgets..  end loop    @ It takes about 6s CPU time and generates about 8048 DIRIO events (measured using LIB$SHOW_TIMER)    If i slip in a setbuf:   fopenI setbuf(...)Q ." .   ' It takes 1.5s cpu time and 2048 DIRIO!!M   Elapsed time is about half.Y  E The wierd thing is, even if I allocate a buffer of 10bytes for use inYE setbuf it's still much much faster (no difference in a 10bytes buffere	 or 1meg!)e  D The only way I can get it to be as slow as the default (recommended)A behaviour is to do a setbuf(fp,NULL), which turns buffered IO off_ completely!_   What is going on ?!_  B FYI I want to sequentially read thousands of these files every day* with as little resource usage as possible.   Thanks   Rob J.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:13:41 -0500_2 From: norm lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>: Subject: Re: Wierd File Reading Behaviour - Dec C on Alpha* Message-ID: <3C517625.34ECB606@oracle.com>   	. 	. 	. > D > FYI I want to sequentially read thousands of these files every day, > with as little resource usage as possible.  + 	use $IO_PERFORM with 256 block buffers and41 adjust it until you have a read queue of 1 at allI( times for all spindles of the input set.   >  > Thanks >  > Rob J.   -- D> norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering / usa / 610.696.4685   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 00:55:11 -0800, From: tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung): Subject: writev() crashes with access violation on OpenVMS= Message-ID: <f9dc0a5a.0201250055.3c6899fc@posting.google.com>L   Dear All C/C++ programmers,   C I have experienced a crash on calling writev() in OpenVMS. The sameLC piece of codes run perfectly in Solaris. I have come up with a veryCB short program to show it (which is attached at the end). It alwaysE "%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00" when writev() is  called.0  6 I am using Compaq C++ V6.3-020 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3.  % Does anyone have the same experience?w   Thank you very much.   Tony Cheung)   #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/socket.h>  #include <netinet/in.h>    #include <inet.h>  #include <sys/uio.h> #include <strings.h>   int main() {     /*3    * Open a TCP socket (an Internet stream socket).D    */R-   int sockfd=socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);=     struct sockaddr_in serv_addr;..   bzero((char*)&serv_addr, sizeof(serv_addr));   serv_addr.sin_family=AF_INET; 7   serv_addr.sin_addr.s_addr=inet_addr("192.168.0.152");"!   serv_addr.sin_port=htons(4001);   D   connect(sockfd, (struct sockaddr*) &serv_addr, sizeof(serv_addr));     char *name="Tony";     struct iovec iov[1];   iov[0].iov_base=name;    iov[0].iov_len=4;R  0   writev(sockfd, &iov[0], 1); // It crashes here }I   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:36:35 +0300 4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <laishev@smtp.deltatel.ru>> Subject: Re: writev() crashes with access violation on OpenVMS0 Message-ID: <3C512723.6F4B90DA@smtp.deltatel.ru>   Hi !%  Socket under VMS is not a file desc.W  = Returns the socket descriptor associated with a Socket Device 1     Channel for direct use with the Compaq C RTL.T       Syntax:F       #include <socket.h>R  %     int decc$socket_fd (int channel);      ... F >   connect(sockfd, (struct sockaddr*) &serv_addr, sizeof(serv_addr));!     fd = decc$socket_fd (sockfd);_ ...E2 >   writev(sockfd, &iov[0], 1); // It crashes here > }    -- " Cheers, Ruslan.aD +---------------------pure personal opinion------------------------+;       RADIUS Server for OpenVMS project - www.radiusvms.comh8         vms-isps@dls.net - Forum for ISP running OpenVMS*                  Mobile: +7 (901) 971-3222A    TKD (WTF) in Russia, St.-Petersburg - www.TaeKwonDo-WTF.SPb.RUe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:04:08 GMTg' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>f> Subject: Re: writev() crashes with access violation on OpenVMS, Message-ID: <3C5149B8.91D9CC1@theblakes.com>  $ socket does return an fd on OpenVMS.  G The bug is in the CRTL's writev function and only occurs if the fd is aCG socket. I'm not sure when it got fixed or if that fix is in an ECO yet."   Colin.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:01:21 +0000 % From: DJR <bass.a.voice@ntlworld.com>LD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The, Message-ID: <3C511EE1.B8C5CDB5@ntlworld.com>   ic0cdfw00@ic24.net wrote:L > B > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:17:02 GMT, bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton > Kelly}) wrote:  M > >> Some UK English speakers may disagree entirely with this and assert thatOB > >> the "correct" pronunciation of scone is to rhyme with "cone". > >eK > >And has already been remarked in the thread, such people will be pseuds, E > >who doubtless also allow their little fingers to poke out from the"E > >teacup, and refer to serviettes and toilets.  This is mock-genteelO# > >affectation, and decidely non-U.F > B > Well, I and my family and friends, born and bred in S. YorkshireC > always pronounced it scone rhyming with cone.  Miners, engineers,kD > fairground attendants, tailoresses, in service, shopkeepers sum upD > their occupations.  I doubt my parents ever heard of raised little@ > fingers in the 30s, 40s and 50s, I certainly did not.  Come toD > think of it I never  heard the pronunciation not rhyming with coneC > until I was employed in the Manchester area commencing 1961.  And C > when I go home to S.Y. the pronunciation rhymes with cone to this: > day.  G Well said - I was wondering how to counter this without sounding like a F defensive arriviste.  It is possible that the pronunciation of "scone"B is class centred in some metropolitan areas, but I am sure that myF pronunciation to rhyme with "cone" is purely regional.  I was born and@ brought up in the industrial Midlands, where as far as I can nowD remember, everybody used this form.  I, also, was well into my teens before hearing any alternative.o  G There is no parallel with the serviette/napkin distinction.  No U/non-U + difference, at least not where I came from.n   -- o Davide  B The address is valid, but I will change it at to keep ahead of the	 spammers.s   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 25 Jan 02 11:32:51 GMTt From: jmfbahciv@aol.comfD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The+ Message-ID: <a2rne1$r42$7@bob.news.rcn.net>.  ) In article <3C504D3A.EEF8D43B@yahoo.com>,e+    CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:  >Mark Wallace wrote: >> w2 >> "Dr. Dweeb" <Dweeb@NoSpam.com> wrote in message, >> news:wPS38.54$l43.2316@news.get2net.dk...? >> > "Mark Wallace" <mwallacenospam@noknok.nl> wrote in message 4 >> > news:a2lt40$1271sm$1@ID-51325.news.dfncis.de... >> > >9 >> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in messaget, >> > > news:3C4E5AB1.C75106D@videotron.ca... >> > >0 >> > > > As for myself, I am partial to Nutella. >> > >/ >> > > Have you seen what goes into that stuff?  >> > > >> > > <retches> >> >  >> > Pay tell .... Pray tell ... >> =E >> Well, you know the parts of a cow that don't make it to the plates- >> of the best restaurants...  >,< >Or of pigs.  When I was about 14 I worked for the stingiest> >butcher in town.  One of the jobs he put me to was making the> >sausages.  I saw exactly what went into them :-[  Took me ten? >years before I could eat a sausage again, and I am still learyIC >several generations later.  I hope health regulations and lawsuits  >have improved the breed.h > ; That lets you use up the whole cow.  I make my own sausage,  hamburger, and Balken Brij.      /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.f   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:46:57 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The3 Message-ID: <uoDZRLS7P17r@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  S In article <3C504D3A.EEF8D43B@yahoo.com>, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> writes:n  = > Or of pigs.  When I was about 14 I worked for the stingiesta? > butcher in town.  One of the jobs he put me to was making the-? > sausages.  I saw exactly what went into them :-[  Took me tene@ > years before I could eat a sausage again, and I am still learyD > several generations later.  I hope health regulations and lawsuits > have improved the breed.  C    It also may be of interest what they go into.  Most are now made>@    with man made casings, but the older type can still be found,D    mostly at specialty shops where people who want them can ge them.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:55:31 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iD Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The3 Message-ID: <7PQqSG+f1ic8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <a2pmns$135h4m$1@ID-51325.news.dfncis.de>, "Mark Wallace" <mwallacenospam@noknok.nl> writes:e  E > I saw it going into the machines, myself.  Everything that can't be A > cut off and cooked -- bones, eyeballs, the lot.  I assume that, D > nowadays, the brain and spinal cord are excluded, but you'll still" > get huge lumps of fat and gunge.  B    Sounds like a nice dinner soup, after you've had bug for lunch.  C    Whether or not these are considered edible is mostly a matter ofd    personal preference.      ------------------------------    Date: 25 Jan 2002 08:52:37 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler).D Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The3 Message-ID: <UmAbM63SvAK+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <slrna50mvs.j9.stanb@citadel.metropolis.local>, stanb@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) writes:e > H > There's an old country saying: "You can eat every part of a pig exceptF > the grunt!".  If you live in farming country, you learn _nothing_ is > wasted...i  F    They way I heard it was "You can use everything except the squeal".,    When I woked at McD's we used the squeal.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2002 09:52:17 GMT' From: alapaa@NOOOOSPAM.math.chalmers.se O Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans ( was Re:     The dem.. Message-ID: <a2r9sh$85a$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>  H In comp.arch Charles Shannon Hendrix <shannon@news.widomaker.com> wrote:9 > In article <name99-1901022044170001@handma2.apple.com>,r) > Maynard Handley <name99@mac.com> wrote:i  K >> Apple, of course (and I am quite serious here) no longer do this either. J >> There are still ten variants coded up, but they are all showed to SteveM >> Jobs, not "the public" who then decides what he wants. Hence the continualtI >> fury by almost everyone but Steve Jobs at the UI decisions in MacOS X.-  G > I can't figure out why Steve Jobs gets so much credit.  I have yet tonH > read anything about him that doesn't show him to be a perpetual whinerF > who had little to do with creating what Apple is or has, and in fact; > is responsible for some of Apple's worst characteristics.H    E Well, then you should do some reading. I am not a MacOID, so I do notrF follow all the events reported in the press about what happens at/with@ Apple. What I do know is that Jobs and Wozniak basically createdB Apple. Even more importantly (as for Jobs' competence) when he wasE fired from Apple he created the NextStep OS and computers, which even C by the standards of the OS:es today (more than 10 years later) mustaB be considered far superior to most when it comes to the technologyF of the future, OO. Imagine where the industry could have been today if9 we had had the pure OO philosophy of NextStep and pure OOnE componentware sold by third-party vendors instead of WinBloat 3.X andlD VBX components in the early nineties... <sigh> Furthermore, NextStepE had a lot of other nice features such as true WYSIWYG on the display h< using display PostScript, alpha channels (transparency) etc.  F Note that I am not an OO zealot (I currently use C++ and not Java, and@ frequently use the hybrid nature of C++, i.e. multiple paradigms3 including OO and plain function-based programming).t   /Erik Alap   -- F$ email: alapaa@NOSPAMmath.chalmers.se) tel:   see my webpage (web-address below) + web:   http://www.math.chalmers.se/~alapaa/g   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Jan 2002 16:21:38 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)tB Subject: Re: [Q] Why is there the limit of 8 levels of directories, Message-ID: <a2s0mi$1019$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ; In article <01KD6FV5EK4S8ZGI9O@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>,r<  Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:2 |> > I would like to know why I cant move between ! |> > directories using wildcards:o |> > a |> > $ SET DEF [.FABIOCAR*]j |>  0 |> Easy: what if there is more than one match?    ; You choose one of (possibly) many results.  Of the system Is% have windows to on my desk right now:A9   one returns the the what you typed, followed by a colonr     and the word Ambiguous. 9   The other merely moves you to the first match it finds.t  : The answer is really simple.  The creators and maintainers7 of VMS didn't see value in that particular function andt6 thus didn't provide it.  It may be tied to the command5 interpreter not expanding wild cards, but I doubt it.o   bill   -- oJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.048 ************************