0 INFO-VAX	Wed, 30 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 58      Contents:+ Re: %LIBRAR-W-DUPMODULE with lib/create/obj + Re: %LIBRAR-W-DUPMODULE with lib/create/obj " Re: Alpha VMS file to Oracle table" Re: Alpha VMS file to Oracle tableD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership Re: c.o.vms archive? Where? < Re: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languagesD Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* LinuxD Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq  Re: compiler group (Fortran)C Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses C Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses " Re: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris? Re: CSWS: POST Problem DCPS - DECprint docs? $ Re: DHCP as a client using Multinet?  RE: Disaster recovery - success!. Easily Make $1000's Per Month Selling On Ebay!+ RE: Export Monitor Data to CSV file, Excel?  Re: FMS/CFMS Re: fopen crashes while in AST3 Re: fopen() behavior difference...bug or undefined?  ftp logon from windows promt  Re: ftp logon from windows promt  Re: ftp logon from windows promt ftp time out Re: ftp time out Re: ftp time out Re: ftp time out Re: ftp time out( Re: How to get/put the symbol list in C?A Re: How to tell if File is locked in C ?fopen extension pehraps ? ( Re: Intel Special issue of OpenVMS Times( Re: Intel Special issue of OpenVMS Times Re: Intrusions deletion  lexicals question  Re: lexicals question  Re: lexicals question  Re: lexicals question  licenses / node name change  Re: licenses / node name change ( Re: Moving from CMU-IP to TCPIP services Re: New VMS newsgroup ? Opening a file for writing in shareable mode (newbie questions) C Re: Opening a file for writing in shareable mode (newbie questions) ? OpenVMS efficiency with running the same process multiple times C Re: OpenVMS efficiency with running the same process multiple times + problems with TLZ09 tapedrive under VMS7.3? H Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof" Regarding search in all Job Tables& Re: Regarding search in all Job Tables Remotely starting batch on VMS" Re: Remotely starting batch on VMS" Re: Remotely starting batch on VMS' Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE  Re: STR$lowercase ?  Re: There must be a way  Re: There must be a way  RE: There must be a way  RE: There must be a way  RE: There must be a way  RE: There must be a way  RE: There must be a way  Re: There must be a way  Re: There must be a way ) Upgarded to OpenVMS 7.3 Printing question ( Re: Using vfork/execvp with DCL commands Re: VMS 7.3 stability  Re: VMS 7.3 stability  VMS Certification ? Re: VMS721_SYS-V1100: Caution do not apply with Pathworks V6.0D ? Re: VMS721_SYS-V1100: Caution do not apply with Pathworks V6.0D ? Re: VMS721_SYS-V1100: Caution do not apply with Pathworks V6.0D 6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 RE: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 RE: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...); Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 03:13:16 -0800, From: tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung)4 Subject: Re: %LIBRAR-W-DUPMODULE with lib/create/obj= Message-ID: <f9dc0a5a.0201300313.256f31b3@posting.google.com>   k gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) wrote in message news:<a36mnv$4h3$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>... n > In article <f9dc0a5a.0201290716.3b0f9e3e@posting.google.com>, tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung) writes: > I > >I have just solved the problem myself, though I do not understand why. G > >Instead of doing cxx a,b,c,...etc (compilation in one cxx statement) ; > >I am doing cxx a, cxx b, cxx c. (compilation one by one) 8 > >Then lib/insert prsbase <all obj files> simply works! > > E > >I suppose cxx a,b,c is the same as cxx a, cxx b then cxx c. But it & > >turns out differently in this case. > L > No, "cxx a,b,c" will result in a single object file "a.obj" containing allK > the modules in a, b and c. Now when you insert a.obj into the library and L > you try to insert b.obj afterwards, the procedures of b are already in theK > library. Hence the %LIBRAR-W-DUPMODULE error. You may easily check what's  > in the library via >   LIBRARY/LIST lib.name / > You may even want to add the qualifier /FULL.   @ I have checked that and actually only cxx a+b+c will result in aD single object file "a.obj". cxx a,b,c will give out a.obj, b.obj and c.obj.   Thanks anyway.   Tony Cheung    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jan 2002 11:31:39 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) 4 Subject: Re: %LIBRAR-W-DUPMODULE with lib/create/obj0 Message-ID: <a38lir$ost$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  l In article <f9dc0a5a.0201300313.256f31b3@posting.google.com>, tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung) writes:l >gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) wrote in message news:<a36mnv$4h3$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>...o >> In article <f9dc0a5a.0201290716.3b0f9e3e@posting.google.com>, tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung) writes:  >>  J >> >I have just solved the problem myself, though I do not understand why.H >> >Instead of doing cxx a,b,c,...etc (compilation in one cxx statement)< >> >I am doing cxx a, cxx b, cxx c. (compilation one by one)9 >> >Then lib/insert prsbase <all obj files> simply works!  >> >F >> >I suppose cxx a,b,c is the same as cxx a, cxx b then cxx c. But it' >> >turns out differently in this case.  >>  M >> No, "cxx a,b,c" will result in a single object file "a.obj" containing all L >> the modules in a, b and c. Now when you insert a.obj into the library andM >> you try to insert b.obj afterwards, the procedures of b are already in the L >> library. Hence the %LIBRAR-W-DUPMODULE error. You may easily check what's >> in the library via  >>   LIBRARY/LIST lib.name0 >> You may even want to add the qualifier /FULL. > A >I have checked that and actually only cxx a+b+c will result in a E >single object file "a.obj". cxx a,b,c will give out a.obj, b.obj and  >c.obj.   M Did you check what it is "a"? Do a "cxx a" and note the size of the resulting F file. Then do a "cxx a,b,c" and see whether "a" is larger than before.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 07:30:12 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: Alpha VMS file to Oracle table 3 Message-ID: <rSdcQMUOMwRt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <5f681ccc.0201292011.3fbb4521@posting.google.com>, rnagaraju@yahoo.com (Raj Nagaraju) writes:B > We have files with data that were produced by Alpha VMS system.  > < > We have NO ACCESS to the system that produced these files. > H > There are about 35 fields in each record. When I open the file throughC > notepad, I can read some of the fields. Some of the fields are in D > really funky, weird and unreadable format which I think is in some > native or proprietary format.   C You better rent time on a VMS machine that runs the same version of  Oracle.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:19:11 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: Alpha VMS file to Oracle table 3 Message-ID: <j5gSWxBc9tNm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <5f681ccc.0201292011.3fbb4521@posting.google.com>, rnagaraju@yahoo.com (Raj Nagaraju) writes:B > We have files with data that were produced by Alpha VMS system.  > H > There are about 35 fields in each record. When I open the file throughC > notepad, I can read some of the fields. Some of the fields are in D > really funky, weird and unreadable format which I think is in some > native or proprietary format.   G So the data you have now is in some sort of flat file and you're trying 8 to get it loaded into Oracle on the new platform, right?  E At a guess, the funky fields are some flavor of binary coded numeric. ? At a guess, we're talking about some VAX floating point format.   * We'll need some help from you on this one.  A 1.  Hexadeximal dump of a few records from the data you have now.   G 2.  Printable output of the data that those few records should contain.   " 3.  Record layout, if you have it.  J 4.  Description of the platform you're now on, the file transfer techniqueF     that was used to get the files there and any details that you have>     about the file structure on the original Alpha VMS system.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 02:03:36 -0500 ( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership , Message-ID: <3C579AC8.2050301@tsoft-inc.com>   Kenneth H. Fairfield wrote:     > "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:   >  >D  >> As the subject line indicates, be prepared to receive SPAM from 
 Encompass.K  >>   Encompass or not, I find these tactics unacceptable and how Encompass E  >>  could imagine that they would be above everyone else and that no 6  >>  one would object to being SPAMMED is beyond me...  >>   >C  > Could you be just a bit more specific as to what constitutes the F  > SPAM from Encompass?  I've received three solicitations to renew myE  >  membership (and probably will but haven't yet), but since that is 9  > explicitly member-related, I don't consider it spam...   >  >  >C  >> I think what I find truly insulting about this, beyond the SPAM C  >> issue, is that I'm already a paying member and that the context E  >> of the e-mail which is attempting to attract new folks is Storage B  >>  and IPF, two issues that I have the least interest in hearing4  >> what Compaq has to say unless it is VMS-centric.  >>   >H  > I hate spam as much as the next person.  That said, could you post anH  >  example of what you consider to be their spam?  Is it just the fact C that you (and me!) aren't interested in things non-VMS, or are they .  > selling your name to a credit card company?  D I've also gotten multiple e-mails attempting to get me to enlist in D Encompass.  I've been a bit critical of the cost of membership, and G haven't been interested in getting the e-mails.  Still, I can't regard  H such as spam.  I'm sure all the people getting e-mails have given their ( e-mail address to Encompass in the past.  E While spam is a problem, there are those who get angry when they get  I anything they don't want to read, and call it spam.  This is more than a  I bit extreme.  It's almost like walking down the street, have someone say  H good morning, and punching them in the mouth because you didn't want to  hear anything.  D If you want to see spam, I and many others can show you some really I 'good' stuff.  Getting e-mail from an entity you've been associated with   in the past isn't spam.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:06:24 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership ) Message-ID: <3C57C5A0.5E2ED461@127.0.0.1>    "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote: > A > As the subject line indicates, be prepared to receive SPAM from   H I suffer a lot of spam both at work and at home. The actual subject line used in the email:  < "Special Offer for IT Professionals - Join Encompass Today!"  E is a spam-esque type subject, so imagine my surpise to find it in the 0 midst of the rest of the garbage from low lifes.  H While I appreciate what they want to do, they also have to be aware thatD they are in an environment where this sort of email may not gain too9 much favour. A much better considered subject would help.   B Another point is, today in the UK is 30th January, and you have, ID guess, according to the message, until the close of US (East Coast?)F business on 31st to take advantage. No time at all to consider what is being offered.  A I'm afraid my opinion is based on the above, they should not have G bothered. It should have been sent at least two weeks ago with a better ! subject, and the opening wording,    "Don't you often wish you:-    Didn't have any debt?  Better cell phone reception?
 Lose the fat?  Make $$$ from the internet?  Free access to XXX? & Millions of Argentina email addresses?8 Boost windows reliability? (now that's got to be a joke) Meet new friends? " Get 1/2 price cigarettes legally?"   I could go on.  ? "Minus several million for smart thinking" as Zaphod would say.   F (For the record I'm a UK events member of CUOUK - and being in the UK, this email just didn't apply.) --  ( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 07:16:45 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership 3 Message-ID: <i1W$7IM9dOxS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3C575BCF.C8C8B0E4@ui.urban.org>, Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org> writes:  D > If you don't want to receive e-mail from Encompass, you can send a8 > simple removal request to information@encompassus.org.  ? Or you can decline to provide them with an email address in the  first place.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:22:58 -0500 ' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org> M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership + Message-ID: <3C57F3B2.AD89C34@ui.urban.org>    Nic Clews wrote: [snip]C > I'm afraid my opinion is based on the above, they should not have I > bothered. It should have been sent at least two weeks ago with a better # > subject, and the opening wording,   F This wasn't the first mailing, it was a "last call" mailing before theD discount deadline. But even if you miss the discount deadline, you'd still be able to join.  C As to the subject: The subject asked you to join Encompass, and the E body of the message asked you to join Encompass -- sounds like a goodo match to me.   [snip]H > (For the record I'm a UK events member of CUOUK - and being in the UK,  > this email just didn't apply.)  E Encompass doesn't know which other organizations you might belong to,AE or whether you prefer to be in these other groups to the exclusion of ? all others. But Encompass does indeed welcome non-U.S. members.S   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/)l' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)L. ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:38:12 -0500t' From: Jim Becker <jbecker@ui.urban.org>vM Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Memberships, Message-ID: <3C57F744.6708D4CA@ui.urban.org>   JF Mezei wrote:C > N > Out of curiosity, what is the point of a Compaq user group trying to recruitL > members when Compaq's may cease to exist in 2 months at which point the HP> > usergroups will probably become the relevant organisations ?  8 Even if Compaq ceases to exist, the customer base won't.  E Even if Compaq ceases to exist, the independent corporation Encompass  won't.  B Even if Compaq ceases to exist, Interex has no experience with the! Compaq product set and customers.l  E Even if Compaq ceases to exist, CETS 2002 is still on. Events of that B size require lots of planning and early commitments, so Compaq and; Encompass will be well underway with the event planning andiD contractual commitments before the merger results are known. PuttingA the event on hold until the merger result is announced would havel killed the event.e   --
 Jim Becker+ The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/).' Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)s. ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:04:20 GMTo? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)mM Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership . Message-ID: <3c57a8ae.436727@news.demon.co.uk>   Terry,  F I don't think that's the full story.  I received the Encompass SPAM atD an email address that has never had anything to do with Encompass orF DECUS.  They got that email address from somewhere, and it wasn't from their own archives.    Jim.  4 On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:58:09 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   > G >"Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com.nospam> wrote inn3 >message news:3C57326A.D352ADED@intel.com.nospam...  >> "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:w >>D >> > As the subject line indicates, be prepared to receive SPAM fromL >> > Encompass.  Encompass or not, I find these tactics unacceptable and howL >> > Encompass could imagine that they would be above everyone else and that9 >> > no one would object to being SPAMMED is beyond me...  >>C >>     Could you be just a bit more specific as to what constituteseA >> the SPAM from Encompass?  I've received three solicitations totE >> renew my membership (and probably will but haven't yet), but since A >> that is explicitly member-related, I don't consider it spam...  >> >rJ >The email blast was sent by Smith Bucklin Associates, Encompass US Inc.'sL >association management firm, to past and current members of DECUS/EncompassK >US. The goal of the email is to boost membership. Nothing more and nothingsL >less. Neither Encompass US Inc. or SBA buy, sell, or trade mailing lists or& >other member demographic information. >h >k   Jim JohnsonM Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)S   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:07:20 +0000t( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership ) Message-ID: <3C582848.BFC96A80@127.0.0.1>f   Jim Becker wrote:H > Nic Clews wrote: > H > This wasn't the first mailing, it was a "last call" mailing before theF > discount deadline. But even if you miss the discount deadline, you'd > still be able to join.  E I didn't see the first mailing. This wasn't mentioned in the message!   E > As to the subject: The subject asked you to join Encompass, and thesG > body of the message asked you to join Encompass -- sounds like a goodo > match to me.  H It is the wording being used I am criticising, making it look like spam.C I guess you have the good fortune you don't get innundated with theh stuff.  = I do not class this as spam, the users organisations are veryiH worthwhile, but it came close to just having the delete button hit on itG simply from the subject line. My fear is that genuine recipients may do E the same for the same reasons [just file in the trash] and this is myf= point. For completeness how about some typical SPAM subjects:e   RE: Information you wanted  Attention Computer professionals You're a winnera7 Special once in a lifetime offer (note the similarity?)- Save money now Take advantage of special rates: etc.G [These are just the ones in English. There are other worrying ones fromD: genuine addresses trying to engage me in money laundering]   I would suggest a subject of:   : Encompass User Group - Limited time discounted joining fee  D And whilst I appreciate the body of the message is a sales pitch, itH needs to be slightly toned down. If I warrent the subject needs a closer= look, I've been known to hit delete based on the first line. h  F I'm trying to be constructive, I'm not condemning you for sending this email.   -- c( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:55:49 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>B$ Subject: Re: c.o.vms archive? Where?) Message-ID: <3C580975.F70A6473@gtech.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote:a0 > Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@gmx.ch> writes:G > > Or read all "DCL minutes of the *.*" in an archived version of thisb3 > > forum. The live version purges "expired" posts.  > . > Is there a c.o.vms archive? Or for Info-VAX?  " There are links to two archives at   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/   http://www.hhs.dk/~arne/vms/  # You can also search at Deja-Google.d   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 09:53:00 -0800, From: don.braffitt@compaq.com (Don Braffitt)E Subject: Re: Calling COBOL "called programs" from Non-COBOL languages-= Message-ID: <14c5ce2f.0201300952.6a511a7e@posting.google.com>.  j cask1@yahoo.com (Kelly Donahue) wrote in message news:<f4f1188e.0201171925.5a065c60@posting.google.com>...G > Does anyone know how to call a COBOL "Called Program" from a languageoA > other than COBOL?  We're running DEC COBOL V2.4 and OpenVMS 7.1@ >  > Thanks in advance.  E There are two sections of the Compaq COBOL User Manuaul which provide  some of this information:1  I http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/cobol/cobum_005.htm#index_x_577rU http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/73final/cobol/cobum_contents_003.htm#toc_chapter_12.   - Don Braffitt?   Compaq COBOL and SORT project leader (OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX)m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:25:06 +0010r% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>M Subject: Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linux>5 Message-ID: <01KDOZ22FJKY002TFD@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Carl (Perkins),i  " O.K., I concede vocabulary defeat.  L KILL, I always accepted in the sense of Merriam Webster's second definition:  - 2a: to put an end to <kill competition>, etc.e  G Eviscerate, I had never come into contact with M-W's 1b definition: to DL deprive of vital content or force.  In my naivety, I had only heard it used  in the anatomical sense.   Just a failed pedant :-)   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:11:14 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>bM Subject: Re: Capellas redefines Industry Standard to mean Windows *and* Linuxe5 Message-ID: <3C583742.C90943F7@swissonline.delete.ch>   & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >  > Carl (Perkins),m > $ > O.K., I concede vocabulary defeat. > N > KILL, I always accepted in the sense of Merriam Webster's second definition: > / > 2a: to put an end to <kill competition>, etc.  > H > Eviscerate, I had never come into contact with M-W's 1b definition: toM > deprive of vital content or force.  In my naivety, I had only heard it used  > in the anatomical sense. >   	 Hi Paddy,-  > Note the "2a" above.  I think the "a" means "americanism"  ;-)  E It's a trifle ironic that we've lately heard "eviscerate" from peoplerH who actually lack the guts to do what should be done, namely step CompaqD up in the world by (a) dropping the loss-making personal PCs and (b) emphasising the high-end.0     John McLeanp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:59:18 +0000i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq8 Message-ID: <o1ff5u0gus2jurh274cmcg5jats9a8ud4l@4ax.com>  D On 29 Jan 2002 21:42:01 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:     > @ >	The flip-side or interesting side of this debate is how do theB >	Tru64 (AIX, HP/UX, Sun, SGI, etc.) folks work with a Terabyte ofE >	memory?  We know Tru64 scales much better than VMS SMP-wise.  Their   D Is this true any more? My memory, from VMS technical update session,@ was the extensive work in VMS 7.3 was expected to provide better= scalability on EV7 systems than Tru64 could currently manage.   @ We have also had a statement from Fred (I think it was) that VMSE engineering *knows* that 7.3 scales well to at least 16 processors onw EV7.  D One other interesting fact from the analyst presentation is that EV7D systems seem to have moved forward again into 2002 for date of firstE ship. Previous Compaq roadmaps have pushed them out to 2003 but EliaseF confirmed they were ahead of schedule. Hardware and software engineersA keeping EV7 and Itanium port ahead of targets, despite the movingn) goalposts, is extremely encouraging news.   D I think it was stated in the Q+A section I can no longer replay thatF EV7 pass 1 "production" chips were "at the FAB". All this does suggestC that it is just possible that EV7 very early ship systems have beenaD built at Ayr and were the mysterious systems seen there in December.F The suggestion that someone just saw the ASCI-Q supercomputer does notB seem to fit the timescale of December manufacture. But who knows..  D I'd certainly like to think that EV7 systems are already shipping toC selected special customers. Might explain the confidence to advancee# commercial ship dates into CY2002H2   D Speeding up EV7 deployment would be one way for Compaq to attempt toD placate irate Alpha supercomputer customers. It would be interestingD to know what clock range is being wrung out of EV7 Pass 1.  Would be? really nice to see a 2Ghz EV7 server on the market by year end.e -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:00:20 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by CompaqB Message-ID: <8nQ58.108365$vH6.6368469@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:o1ff5u0gus2jurh274cmcg5jats9a8ud4l@4ax.com...   ...a  F > Speeding up EV7 deployment would be one way for Compaq to attempt toF > placate irate Alpha supercomputer customers. It would be interestingF > to know what clock range is being wrung out of EV7 Pass 1.  Would beA > really nice to see a 2Ghz EV7 server on the market by year end.n  E Given that seeing *any* EV7 before year's end is good news, expectingrJ anything more than the initial speed offering seems a bit over-optimistic.L Is even that initial speed yet definite?  My impression was that at one timeL the expectation got backed down to 1 GHz, but that more recently 1.2 GHz hasL been hinted (and this *might* explain the difference between the modest 800+J SPECint estimate that's been floating around and Paul DeMone's estimate of, 1000 that was based IIRC on a 1.2 GHz part).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:14:07 -0500'% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>i> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq, Message-ID: <3C57E38C.F5E8E22F@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:N > Is even that initial speed yet definite?  My impression was that at one timeN > the expectation got backed down to 1 GHz, but that more recently 1.2 GHz has > been hinted   L Apple is starting to sell 1ghz machines on POWER. So if Alpha manages 1.0 orM 1.2, it should please intel since it isn't an impressive performance comparedi  to its 8086s that run at 1.6ghz.  R Remember that in the "industry standard" market, only mhz counts to compare chips.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:51:48 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq8 Message-ID: <u4nf5uopqt6jl4n34pgg8tr8rh4h2ik9sh@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:59:18 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>- wrote:    A >We have also had a statement from Fred (I think it was) that VMSnF >engineering *knows* that 7.3 scales well to at least 16 processors on >EV7.   > On rerunning Elias's presentation he definitely states that 64B processor EV7 systems are running reliably all of the Compaq Alpha< operating systems (presumably Tru64, Linux and VMS) and that1 production quality EV7  chips are available now. t   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:17:07 +0000b% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>j> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq8 Message-ID: <caof5uo537elv9afvq3g7ofu21r31r3dq0@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:00:20 GMT, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:   > 3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagee3 >news:o1ff5u0gus2jurh274cmcg5jats9a8ud4l@4ax.com...e >w >... > G >> Speeding up EV7 deployment would be one way for Compaq to attempt tojG >> placate irate Alpha supercomputer customers. It would be interestingdG >> to know what clock range is being wrung out of EV7 Pass 1.  Would betB >> really nice to see a 2Ghz EV7 server on the market by year end. >rF >Given that seeing *any* EV7 before year's end is good news, expectingK >anything more than the initial speed offering seems a bit over-optimistic. M >Is even that initial speed yet definite?  My impression was that at one time M >the expectation got backed down to 1 GHz, but that more recently 1.2 GHz has   @ At  the November London DECUS session a figure was given for theB highest speed they had been able to push EV7 pass zero silicon to.E Given that Elias confirmed 64 processor EV7 systems were "stable" and C currently running every Compaq OS (presumably Tru64, VMS and Linux)dA and that EV7 production silicon was coming out of the FAB now I'dn@ expect to see the initial EV7 systems running at up to 1.2Ghz or greater in production ship.c  C If EV7 is a done deal then presumably EV7n must be well advanced or0E the developers are sitting twiddling their thumbs. If that's the case F and the rest of the infrastructure can keep up maybe 2Ghz EV7n systems6 could at least be operational in the lab by year end.   M >been hinted (and this *might* explain the difference between the modest 800+aK >SPECint estimate that's been floating around and Paul DeMone's estimate ofa- >1000 that was based IIRC on a 1.2 GHz part).o >n >- bill. >. >    -- Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 07:29:00 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) > Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq3 Message-ID: <qpnwHP5ZwM2l@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ` In article <o1ff5u0gus2jurh274cmcg5jats9a8ud4l@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  F > One other interesting fact from the analyst presentation is that EV7F > systems seem to have moved forward again into 2002 for date of firstG > ship. Previous Compaq roadmaps have pushed them out to 2003 but Elias,H > confirmed they were ahead of schedule. Hardware and software engineersC > keeping EV7 and Itanium port ahead of targets, despite the moving + > goalposts, is extremely encouraging news.c  C Considering the experience with EV6 rollout, one would hope the EV7u" estimates were quite conservative.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:18:00 +0100U' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>n> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq( Message-ID: <3C580EA8.26848577@spam.net>   JF Mezei wrote:e >  > Bill Todd wrote:P > > Is even that initial speed yet definite?  My impression was that at one timeP > > the expectation got backed down to 1 GHz, but that more recently 1.2 GHz has > > been hintedc > N > Apple is starting to sell 1ghz machines on POWER. So if Alpha manages 1.0 orO > 1.2, it should please intel since it isn't an impressive performance comparedr" > to its 8086s that run at 1.6ghz. > T > Remember that in the "industry standard" market, only mhz counts to compare chips.  ? Yup, so far. But this is one of AMD's problems. They're workingt on that 4 introducing the XP branding and virtual clock speeds  5 http://news.com.com/2100-1040-273176.html?legacy=cnety  A This may help in the midterm. I wonder whether other competitors t9 like PowerPC suffer also from that clock speed obsession.t   -- n6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 10:53:50 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq3 Message-ID: <xiO5vdJ9$k6$@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <o1ff5u0gus2jurh274cmcg5jats9a8ud4l@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F > On 29 Jan 2002 21:42:01 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  >  >>A >>	The flip-side or interesting side of this debate is how do thetC >>	Tru64 (AIX, HP/UX, Sun, SGI, etc.) folks work with a Terabyte ofGF >>	memory?  We know Tru64 scales much better than VMS SMP-wise.  Their > F > Is this true any more? My memory, from VMS technical update session,B > was the extensive work in VMS 7.3 was expected to provide better? > scalability on EV7 systems than Tru64 could currently manage.a > B > We have also had a statement from Fred (I think it was) that VMSG > engineering *knows* that 7.3 scales well to at least 16 processors ona > EV7. >   > 	I think I recall seeing Tru64 with 64 CPUs and they are doingB 	their own "RAD-like" things to make NUMA less painful.  The pointA 	however is that it is still SSI, and a CPU crash tanks the wholeoC 	box - unless of course they have their own methods of dealing witht= 	that (from numerous comp.arch discussions there is the nasty.@ 	problem of cache coherence and not really knowing where you are3 	at :-) but I don't think it is possible in an SSI.m   				Robm   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 00:41:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq- Message-ID: <87lmefdc63.fsf@prep.synonet.com>b  ' JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes:i  C > I once heard of a large Alpha cluster that bugchecked and it tooktC > something like an hour to write its dump file. Can anyone confirmiE > that a crashing alpha with oodles of memory could take that long to  > write the dumpfile ?  @ IIRC, it was an 8400 with 1GB of memory, when it had just become
 possible..  D On the other hand, I know of a cluster that lost the system disk andF was still running Monday. In fact it was not till some one tried to do$ something 'odd' that it was noticed!   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:41:55 -0500.5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> > Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq1 Message-ID: <ViW58.198$am1.4566@news.cpqcorp.net>   K Rest assured that VMS will not run on a 64p system unless it is partitionedsE into instances no larger than 32p.  This is because VMS assumed a CPU D namespace that fit into a 32bit mask.  That can't change until V8.0.       Alan Greig wrote in message ...pD >On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:59:18 +0000, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> >wrote:  >t >sB >>We have also had a statement from Fred (I think it was) that VMSG >>engineering *knows* that 7.3 scales well to at least 16 processors ont >>EV7. >g? >On rerunning Elias's presentation he definitely states that 64gC >processor EV7 systems are running reliably all of the Compaq Alphas= >operating systems (presumably Tru64, Linux and VMS) and that 1 >production quality EV7  chips are available now.r >m >--n >Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:39:10 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a% Subject: Re: compiler group (Fortran)e8 Message-ID: <kn4g5u4p290r7h46cai3kgabui62gt9kgk@4ax.com>  D On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:49:19 -0800, aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote:  K >In article <3C51C1D3.7FC9EE9C@virgin.net>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>  >wrote:  >gC >> Well if you've got some spare time pop over to alt.sys.pdp10 andjG >> volunteer your services to help upgrade  10/20 Fortran to Fortran-90p >> ;-) >eF >heck, we'd be happy if someone still has the sources for the EXISTING
 >compiler.  D From memory I thought that the complete buildable sources shipped on) the Fortran 10/20 tapes. A quick check ofd? http:/http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/fortv11/index.html in thes! archives appears to confirm this.-   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:36:19 +0000-% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>BL Subject: Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... loses8 Message-ID: <t64g5ug1qvt1dbdetqfja2rph2ib0hrqr1@4ax.com>  6 On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:34:08 -0500, Charlie McCutcheon, <charlie.mccutcheon@NOSPAMcompaq.com> wrote:   >T3 >Fortran 10/20 only got to Fortran-77, as I recall.e >aM >I helped add some of the features, first job out of college, "those were thep >days"...  8-)   Are you CDM then by any chance?/F From http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/fortv11/05//act0.bli.html (just aD random Fortran 10/20 source code file I pulled up from the archives)   1535	CDM	17-May-82: 	Fixes to optimize CHAR(constant) and ICHAR(constant) into
 constants.  > This from Fortran-10 Version 11 Field-Test Tape 3 January 1987  3 Later edits by CDM include VMS compatibility edits.n     >Charlie   -- Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:29:57 GMTa* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>L Subject: Re: compiler group (was: RE: Gartner Group lies about VMS ... losesC Message-ID: <FYW58.210633$TC1.14082930@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>r  2 "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message2 news:t64g5ug1qvt1dbdetqfja2rph2ib0hrqr1@4ax.com...8 > On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:34:08 -0500, Charlie McCutcheon. > <charlie.mccutcheon@NOSPAMcompaq.com> wrote: >i > > 5 > >Fortran 10/20 only got to Fortran-77, as I recall.  > >mK > >I helped add some of the features, first job out of college, "those were  the  > >days"...  8-) >n! > Are you CDM then by any chance?e  F And would you be some relation to RTMC, he of the Mandarin fingernail?   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:36:53 +0000y  From: Steve.Spires@yellgroup.com+ Subject: Re: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris?f: Message-ID: <OF7C4EFDF5.2917100E-ON00256B51.0055A65C@btyp>  F Yes, that's happening to me here. I was bought on board to oversee theH phasing out of the VMS boxes to be replaced by SAP. My original contract6 was for 9 months. Three years later and still going...   ;^De   Steve Sy        H Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk> on 01/29/2002 10:09:17 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:.K From:      Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>, 29 January 2002,             10:09 p.m.5  " Re: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris?         JF Mezei wrote:n >g > Larry Kilgallen wrote:I > > > So, if the Customer decided to move from VMS to SUN, or to Winsh*t,a my job is to > > > help him to move.' > > >d > > > Sad, but reality.o > >a5 > > Not sad for you.  I predict many billable hours !  > H > Not necessarily. I was involved in a similar project (move from VMS to NT).K > The company had hired some "NT specialists" and my involvement was simplys toI > explain the VMS specific stuff they didn't understand. They rewrote them app)" > from scratch. Took them 2 years.  H yup, unfortunately this is the way I have observed things to happen. The VMSuI people are kept hanging around until the replacement system is needed butk noteE involved in the replacement project except when absolutely necessary.-   regards- -- Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   B Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of! my employers or service provider.s          F ______________________________________________________________________     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beG confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message hasGG been addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,u$ distribute or use this transmission.  H Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee isG not intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received K this transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.e  
 Thank you.  D Yell Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 7PT.; Registered in England and Wales, registered number 4205228.t  I Yellow Pages Sales Limited, Queens Walk, Oxford Road, Reading, Berkshire,dD RG1 7PT. Registered in England and Wales, registered number 1403041.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 06:50:03 -0800  From: theop@itex.je (Theo Platt) Subject: Re: CSWS: POST Problemt= Message-ID: <31ff7ddd.0201300650.5a9d5dbe@posting.google.com>   ; We're noticing the same problem with GET and PUT populatingI@ WWW_QUERY_STRING but POST not doing the same. Did you get to the bottom of it ?  D Reading around a bit and I've found that POST is supposed to put theE query into APACHE$INPUT but the value stored in there doesn't seem to ! resemble anything like the query.o   Cheers   Theo  a Michael Austin <maustin@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<3C407F3F.A17AF30D@bellsouth.net>...  > Michael Austin wrote:n > > J > > I know this is OT for this group, but I am hoping that someone has run > > across this  issue.a > > / > > I have a form generated by a CGI script at:u > > 3 > > http://www.firstdbasource.com/cgi-bin/test_form  > > C > > Which submits to a version of the TEST-GCI-DCL.COM procedure ino > > APACHE$ROOT:[CGI-BIN]  > > G > > When you Submit the form, it should give you all of the environment A > > variables including QUERY_STRING and display the values being L > > submitted.  If I use GET or PUT, these do show up, but not during a POSTJ > > and the variables from the form are not parsed.  I cannot get these toH > > display in either Netscape 4.7 or IE5.x. Did I miss something in the@ > > command procedure (typed out at the end of the result page). > > K > > I have a C program that reads STDIN and does parse these out correctly.o > > Seet > > : > > http://www.firstdbasource.com/cgi-bin/TEST_FORM_C_PROG > >  > > Any Ideas? > >  > > -- > >  > > Regards, > >  > > Michael Austin; > > First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comt  > > President/Sr. DBA Consultant > > 704-947-1089 (Office)n > > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)  > J > I guess we have no takers on this one...    My website is currently downI > due to squabbles with my ADSL provider not allowing *any* web servers. h$ > I may be changing providers soon.  > H > Here is the results of a simple check box/text form submitted to a DCL" > CGI program using a POST method: >  > , > CGI test script (test-cgi-vms.com) report: >  > $  set verifyf > $  APACHE$DCL_ENV -d C > $  APACHE$DCL_ENV -c   > $  APACHE$DCL_ENV -l - >  >  > (CGI Environment Variables)0 >  >   "WWW_CONTENT_LENGTH" = "31"e< >   "WWW_CONTENT_TYPE" = "application/x-www-form-urlencoded"D >   "WWW_DOCUMENT_ROOT" = "/apache$common/htdocs/firstdbasource_com"@ >   "WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT" = "image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, > image/pjpeg, image/png, */*"4 >   "WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET" = "iso-8859-1,*,utf-8"' >   "WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING" = "gzip" % >   "WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE" = "en" ( >   "WWW_HTTP_CONNECTION" = "Keep-Alive"% >   "WWW_HTTP_HOST" = "192.168.1.200"a" >   "WWW_HTTP_PRAGMA" = "no-cache"A >   "WWW_HTTP_REFERER" = "http://192.168.1.200/cgi-bin/test_form"s: >   "WWW_HTTP_USER_AGENT" = "Mozilla/4.75 [en] (Win98; U)"  >   "WWW_PATH" = "dra0:[apache]"' >   "WWW_REMOTE_ADDR" = "192.168.1.102"l >   "WWW_REMOTE_PORT" = "1731"= >   "WWW_SCRIPT_FILENAME" = "/apache$root/cgi-bin/monroe.COM" ' >   "WWW_SERVER_ADDR" = "192.168.1.200"25 >   "WWW_SERVER_ADMIN" = "maustin@firstdbasource.com"l0 >   "WWW_SERVER_NAME" = "www.firstdbasource.com" >   "WWW_SERVER_PORT" = "80"> >   "WWW_SERVER_SIGNATURE" = "<ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.14 Server at* > www.firstdbasource.com Port 80</ADDRESS> > " B >   "WWW_SERVER_SOFTWARE" = "Apache/1.3.14 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.21 > mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a"i+ >   "WWW_UNIQUE_ID" = "PECA1MCoAcgAAANbUXw"m' >   "WWW_GATEWAY_INTERFACE" = "CGI/1.1"h& >   "WWW_SERVER_PROTOCOL" = "HTTP/1.0"! >   "WWW_REQUEST_METHOD" = "POST"- >   "WWW_QUERY_STRING" = ""a) >   "WWW_REQUEST_URI" = "/cgi-bin/monroe" ) >   "WWW_SCRIPT_NAME" = "/cgi-bin/monroe"R > $wait 00:00:01 >  > $set noverifys >  > I > Generated on host alpha1.firstdbasource.com at 12-JAN-2002 13:30:46.53.0 > - > Default directory is APACHE$ROOT:[CGI-BIN].c >  >  > APACHE$INPUT is SYS$COMMAND. >  > SYS$COMMAND is _BG8217.s > " > For PUT methods in .COM scripts:F >         $ define/NoLog SYS$INPUT APACHE$INPUT: ! early in .COM file. >  >  > symbol C1 =  > symbol WWW_C1 =  > logical    C1 =  >  > symbol KEY1 =  > symbol WWW_KEY1 =  > logical    KEY1 =  >  > symbol QUERY_STRING =  > symbol WWW_QUERY_STRING =  > logical    QUERY_STRING =  >  > symbol WWW_QUERY_STRING =   > symbol WWW_WWW_QUERY_STRING =   > logical    WWW_QUERY_STRING =  > A > symbol DOCUMENT_ROOT = /apache$common/htdocs/firstdbasource_compE > symbol WWW_DOCUMENT_ROOT = /apache$common/htdocs/firstdbasource_coms > logical    DOCUMENT_ROOT = a > $ > symbol GATEWAY_INTERFACE = CGI/1.1( > symbol WWW_GATEWAY_INTERFACE = CGI/1.1! > logical    GATEWAY_INTERFACE = s > > > symbol HTTP_ACCEPT = image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, > image/pjpeg, image/png, */*sB > symbol WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT = image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, > image/pjpeg, image/png, */*l > logical    HTTP_ACCEPT =   > 1 > symbol HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET = iso-8859-1,*,utf-8o5 > symbol WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET = iso-8859-1,*,utf-8t# > logical    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET = o > $ > symbol HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING = gzip( > symbol WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING = gzip$ > logical    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING =  > " > symbol HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE = en& > symbol WWW_HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE = en$ > logical    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE =  > % > symbol HTTP_CONNECTION = Keep-Alive ) > symbol WWW_HTTP_CONNECTION = Keep-Alived > logical    HTTP_CONNECTION = a > " > symbol HTTP_HOST = 192.168.1.200& > symbol WWW_HTTP_HOST = 192.168.1.200 > logical    HTTP_HOST = n > 7 > symbol HTTP_USER_AGENT = Mozilla/4.75 [en] (Win98; U)-; > symbol WWW_HTTP_USER_AGENT = Mozilla/4.75 [en] (Win98; U)  > logical    HTTP_USER_AGENT = y >  > symbol PATH = dra0:[apache]i! > symbol WWW_PATH = dra0:[apache]o > logical    PATH =  > $ > symbol REMOTE_ADDR = 192.168.1.102( > symbol WWW_REMOTE_ADDR = 192.168.1.102 > logical    REMOTE_ADDR = e >  > symbol REMOTE_PORT = 1731t >  > symbol WWW_REMOTE_PORT = 1731  > logical    REMOTE_PORT = y >  > symbol REQUEST_METHOD = POST" > symbol WWW_REQUEST_METHOD = POST > logical    REQUEST_METHOD =  > & > symbol REQUEST_URI = /cgi-bin/monroe* > symbol WWW_REQUEST_URI = /cgi-bin/monroe > logical    REQUEST_URI = p > : > symbol SCRIPT_FILENAME = /apache$root/cgi-bin/monroe.COM> > symbol WWW_SCRIPT_FILENAME = /apache$root/cgi-bin/monroe.COM > logical    SCRIPT_FILENAME = w > & > symbol SCRIPT_NAME = /cgi-bin/monroe* > symbol WWW_SCRIPT_NAME = /cgi-bin/monroe > logical    SCRIPT_NAME = : > 2 > symbol SERVER_ADMIN = maustin@firstdbasource.com6 > symbol WWW_SERVER_ADMIN = maustin@firstdbasource.com > logical    SERVER_ADMIN =  > - > symbol SERVER_NAME = www.firstdbasource.comT1 > symbol WWW_SERVER_NAME = www.firstdbasource.comn > logical    SERVER_NAME = a >  > symbol SERVER_PORT = 80  > symbol WWW_SERVER_PORT = 80h > logical    SERVER_PORT =   > # > symbol SERVER_PROTOCOL = HTTP/1.0 ' > symbol WWW_SERVER_PROTOCOL = HTTP/1.0h > logical    SERVER_PROTOCOL = d > < > symbol SERVER_SIGNATURE = <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.14 Server at* > www.firstdbasource.com Port 80</ADDRESS> > @ > symbol WWW_SERVER_SIGNATURE = <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.14 Server at* > www.firstdbasource.com Port 80</ADDRESS> >   > logical    SERVER_SIGNATURE =  > @ > symbol SERVER_SOFTWARE = Apache/1.3.14 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.21 > mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5aD > symbol WWW_SERVER_SOFTWARE = Apache/1.3.14 (OpenVMS) mod_perl/1.21 > mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a > logical    SERVER_SOFTWARE = o >  > E > UNIQUE_ID is non-blank only if Apache was built with MOD_UNIQUE_ID.- > ( > symbol UNIQUE_ID = PECA1MCoAcgAAANbUXw, > symbol WWW_UNIQUE_ID = PECA1MCoAcgAAANbUXw > logical    UNIQUE_ID = : >  >  > % >                         - The End -p >  > <pre>D' > $ define/NoLog SYS$INPUT APACHE$INPUT F > $ APACHE$DCL_ENV :== $apache$common:[000000]APACHE$DCL_ENV.exe_alpha > $ APACHE$CGI_MODE = "1":/ > $  Define APACHE$PREFIX_DCL_CGI_SYMBOLS_WWW 1aB > $ write sys$output f$fao("!AS!/!/", "Content-type: text/plain")  > $t% > $ write sys$output f$fao("!AS!/", - H >                         "CGI test script (test-cgi-vms.com) report:")  > $?
 > $set verify  > $  APACHE$DCL_ENV -d M > $  APACHE$DCL_ENV -c   > $  APACHE$DCL_ENV -l   > $wait 00:00:01 > $set noverifye+ > $ ! Test-CGI.Com   Lee Tibbert 1999-06-22a8 > $ ! Print out the CGI variables available to a script., > $ ! See documentation at bottom of script. > $ !l > $ ! 2000-06-15  Rick Barry- > $ !     Rename APACHE_INPUT to APACHE$INPUT  > $ !3 > $ set noon > $l* > $ hostName = f$trnlnm("TCPIP$INET_HOST") > $ if "''hostName'" .nes. ""4 > $ thenD > $    fullHostName = "''hostName'." + f$trnlnm("TCPIP$INET_DOMAIN") > $ else  ! Fake itr9 > $    fullHostName = f$edit(f$getsyi("NODENAME"),"TRIM") 	 > $ endifs > $cB > $ write sys$output f$fao("!/Generated on host ''fullHostName' at > !%D.!/", 0)  > $s" > $ cwd = f$environment("DEFAULT")? > $ write sys$output f$fao("Default directory is ''cwd'.!/!/") u > $o  > $ apache_input := APACHE$INPUT- > $ write sys$output f$fao("!AS is !AS.!/", --. >                         "''apache_input'", -6 >                         f$trnlnm("''apache_input'")) > $r > $ apache_input := SYS$COMMANDp- > $ write sys$output f$fao("!AS is !AS.!/", -m. >                         "''apache_input'", -6 >                         f$trnlnm("''apache_input'")) > $set noverify J > $ write sys$output f$fao("For PUT methods in .COM scripts:!/!_!AS.!/!/", > -hI >                 "$ define/NoLog SYS$INPUT APACHE$INPUT: ! early in .COMi > file") > $t
 > $cnt = 1
 > $myloop: > $ call printenv C'cnt' > $ call printenv KEY'cnt' > $ cnt = cnt+1o" > $if cnt .gt. 14 then goto mymore > $!goto myloopl
 > $mymore: > $  > $ call printenv QUERY_STRING" > $ call printenv WWW_QUERY_STRING > $ call printenv DOCUMENT_ROOTc# > $ call printenv GATEWAY_INTERFACEC > $ call printenv HTTP_ACCEPT1% > $ call printenv HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET & > $ call printenv HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING& > $ call printenv HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE! > $ call printenv HTTP_CONNECTIONP > $ call printenv HTTP_HOSTu! > $ call printenv HTTP_USER_AGENTb > $ call printenv PATH > $ call printenv REMOTE_ADDRa > $ call printenv REMOTE_PORTF  > $ call printenv REQUEST_METHOD > $ call printenv REQUEST_URIa! > $ call printenv SCRIPT_FILENAMEb > $ call printenv SCRIPT_NAME8 > $ call printenv SERVER_ADMIN > $ call printenv SERVER_NAMEr > $ call printenv SERVER_PORT ! > $ call printenv SERVER_PROTOCOLg" > $ call printenv SERVER_SIGNATURE > ! > $ call printenv SERVER_SOFTWARE ' > $ write sys$output f$fao("!/!AS!/", -.? >         "UNIQUE_ID is non-blank only if Apache was built with: > MOD_UNIQUE_ID.") > $                        > $ call printenv UNIQUE_IDo > $a6 > $ write sys$output f$fao("!2(/)!3(_)- The End -!/")  > $ write sys$output "<pre>" > $type monroe.com* > $write sys$output "</pre></body></html>" > $  > $n > $ exit > $iO > !____________________________________________________________________________a > $ printenv:  subroutines > $  > $  T > $  symbolName := 'P1't > $ % > $  if f$type('symbolName') .eqs. ""l
 > $  then  > $    symbolValue = ""-	 > $  else-! > $    symbolValue = 'symbolName'0
 > $  endif > $ D > $  write sys$output f$fao("symbol ''symbolName' = ''symbolValue'") > $! > $  symbolName := WWW_'P1'0 > $c% > $  if f$type('symbolName') .eqs. ""5
 > $  then  > $    symbolValue = ""o	 > $  elsew! > $    symbolValue = 'symbolName'F
 > $  endif > $>D > $  write sys$output f$fao("symbol ''symbolName' = ''symbolValue'") > $e  > $  logname = f$trnlnm("''P1'")> > $  write sys$output f$fao("logical    ''P1' = ''logname'!/")	 > $  exitr > $ endsubroutine !printenv' > $hO > !____________________________________________________________________________  > $ !h@ > $ ! This program shows that CGI variables are OpenVMS symbols.D > $ ! It also shows how a final Carriage Return and Line Feed (CRLF)! > $ ! must be added to DCL lines.p > $ ! J > $ ! The output from most DCL commands does _not_ have this terminal CRLFG > $ ! so adding such DCL commands to this script will break it.  Fixingc+ > $ ! this situation is a work in progress.  > $ !oD > $ ! This script is useful to check if CGI access has been properly? > $ ! configured (in [apache.conf]httpd.conf). One can also usec@ > $ ! this script as in a ping to see if a server is responding. > $ !  > $ ! Modification History, > $ ! 1999-06-30  Lee Tibbert         V1.0-1A > $ !             Removed the 1.0 from the CGI string.  I believeDI > $ !             that Apache is now using CGI 1.1.  The orignal .com wastD > $ !             translated from the distribution test-cgi. and theD > $ !             variables printed out do not match those passed inF > $ !             envp to the test-cgi-vms.exe.  I changed the .com toI > $ !             show the same variables as the .exe. Here I alphabetizea > $ !             them.a > $ ! G > $ !             Added printout of default (current) directory to help9" > $ !             me get it right. > $r > $ ! End of file: > </pre></body></html> >  >  >  > --   > 
 > Regards, >  > Michael Austin9 > First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.com  > President/Sr. DBA Consultant > 704-947-1089 (Office)t > 704-236-4377 (Mobile)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:54:45 -0700n3 From: "David D Miller" <ddmiller@west.raytheon.com>  Subject: DCPS - DECprint docs?F Message-ID: <OF67BAF0D8.C2A1BC08-ON07256B51.005CB316@rsc.raytheon.com>   Folks:  ? Where is DECprint (DCPS -- is that right? DECprint Supervisor?)oJ documentation live these days?  Has it been renamed?  Am I having a senior moment?r   dave.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:03:28 -05001% From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>g- Subject: Re: DHCP as a client using Multinet?l/ Message-ID: <u5g2q1l85i7f8f@news.supernews.com>5  > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3C570ABF.B4CA1AA9@firstdbasource.com... > William Barnett-Lewis wrote: > >iH > > I'm probably missing something obvious, if so please point me at the% > > right place in the documentation.  > >lK > > I have a router that provides a DHCP server and I would like to have myvH > > Vaxstation get it's IP from that. I have installed Multinet and it'sI > > PAK. I am not able to find in the documentation how to set it up as aoK > > DHCP client. Again, if this is an FAQ, a pointer in the right directiont > > is appreciated.o > >  > > Thanks,U > >  > > William  > > --. > > You better watch out    What you wish for;/ > > It better be worth it   So much to die for.r1 > >                                 Courtney Love. >wB > I would prefer to hard-code my IP (and I do) such that I can useJ > port-fowarding and I like to be able to connect with reflections without! > having to guess the IP address.i >tC > With DHCP, you don't always know what your IP address is for thatrH > purpose. I have 2 vms systems (tpcpip V5.0a eco-3) connected to my DSL7 > service. I also have a couple of unix boxes  as well.a > --  J I use static IP addresses for my VMS systems but I still use DHCP.  I justJ tell the DHCP server to reserve a specific IP address for the VMS systems.K This makes configuration easier and changes to the network are MUCH easier.sK If, for example, I change my DNS server all I have to do is change the DHCP_E server and all of the other machines will pick up the new DNS server.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:30:43 -0000f- From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>s) Subject: RE: Disaster recovery - success!oN Message-ID: <0262A6086BFBD411959500508B69C5EA02A52278@ThisAddressDoesNotExist>  L My experience / suggestion is that if the queue database is open when you do- the backup it will not restore cleanly.  YMMV    -----Original Message-----, From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei@videotron.ca] Sent: 29 January 2002 16:27  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms) Subject: Re: Disaster recovery - success!      Syltrem wrote:D > - After booting there were no jobs in the batch queues (???). It's possibleJ > that this was caused by the people at the recovery site who did boot ourH > system without asking permission. If anyone experienced this and has a clue > as to why, pls let me know!r  I On yor main production site, you need to look at the QMAN$MASTER logical.   G If you have heterogenous cluster (multiple system disks) you have to bemH careful about the order they are booted since you would want the one whoG actually has the main queue manager database to boot first and then thed otheroL ones defining the QMAN$MASTER before doing the START/QUEUE so that they know/ where the real queue manager files are located.     A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be .F legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this F email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the  help desk on (+44)(0)870 8704820   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:59:45 GMT( From: nathan<skyetrade90210@hotmail.com>7 Subject: Easily Make $1000's Per Month Selling On Ebay!i< Message-ID: <3c57b601$0$12608$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>   Recieving over 1.5 billion page views per month, Ebay is the ULTIMATE venue for selling virtually any goods and making huge profits with almost no effort.    3 But you have to know what to sell and how to sell. D+ That's where Ebay Marketing 2001 comes in. d  f This manual provides you with easy to understand and detailed instructions for maximizing your profitsb  with selling strategies that are PROVEN WINNERS. This manual provides you with easy to understandh  and detailed instructions for maximizing your profits with selling strategies that are PROVEN WINNERS.     ^ This information will make you $1000's on Ebay. Although this book was based on eBay auctions,f  the overall information will work for ALL online auctions. Ebay Marketing 2001 teaches you effective \ SELLING STRATEGIES and you don't need any specialized computer knowledge. I'm going to pass a on the SECRET SELLING TECHNIQUES that I use each and every day to bring in hundreds of thousands D5 of dollars selling my products on internet auctions. e    " THE INTERNET CAN BE YOUR GOLDMINE!" ----------------------------------$ Why aren't you digging out the gold?' Because you don't have the right tools.v   For more information e-mail: joshabrahams@dr.com/ put "info" inthe subject headerp   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:30:43 -0000/- From: Martin Walker <Martin.Walker@csf.co.uk>T4 Subject: RE: Export Monitor Data to CSV file, Excel?N Message-ID: <0262A6086BFBD411959500508B69C5EA02A52275@ThisAddressDoesNotExist>  J I think if you install ECP (free download from the VMS capacity planning / performance web siteH (http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/performance-and-capacity.html) it includes this functionality.   -----Original Message-----@ From: PeterMoreton@hotmail.com [mailto:PeterMoreton@hotmail.com] Sent: 28 January 2002 11:43  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com"0 Subject: Export Monitor Data to CSV file, Excel?     Hi,_  C I am looking for a way to get OpenVMS 6.2 Monitor data into a CommaeB Seperated file, for import into Excel. There have been a couple ofE posts about this in the past, and a Compaq utility called "T4" soundstC promising - except that I cannot find it anywhere! Does anyone knowR+ where T4 or a similar utility can be found?.   Thanks,r  
 Peter MoretonD Principle Technology Ltd    A This e-mail including any attachments is confidential and may be  F legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the@ sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your  system. B The unauthorised use, distribution, copying or alteration of this F email is strictly forbidden. If you need assistance please contact the  help desk on (+44)(0)870 8704820   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:05:58 -05001% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: FMS/CFMST, Message-ID: <3C57E1A3.50E695C2@videotron.ca>   Peter CK Kan wrote:NF > How can I toggle insert mode and overwrite mode during data input onD > screens written by FMS/CFMS  ... (I know I can do that by pressing > ctrl-A in command line).   According to my ORANGE BINDER:  / FDV$AFCX (insovr, curpos, [fldnam], [fldidx] );    insovr:  passed by reference. 
 	0= no changeY 	1= insert modei 	2- overstrike mode   V curpos: cursor position within the field. 1 is first character  . Passed by reference.  J fldnam: passed by descriptor. The fieldname. If not specified, the current field is used.S fldidx: passed by reference, index of field to modify, (if it is an indexed field)._  6 You woudl call this just before doing a GET-type call.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:46:07 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>/' Subject: Re: fopen crashes while in ASTa, Message-ID: <3C57DCFD.D3B159A7@videotron.ca>   Ryan Moore wrote:, > G > Did you use the decc$set_reentrancy() function to specify you will be I > using ASTs?  You should really do this if you want to use fopen() in anE > AST.  See: > U > http://www.openvms.compaq.com/commercial/c/5763p023.htm#decc_set_reentrancy_routine   M Nop. Never looked at that routine. But reading its documentation I *guess* itN might have made a difference.L  J The irony is that the first incarnation of the program used C io (open andG write) in the main program (and fopen/fprintf in the AST) and it didn'tTM exhibit the crashing in fopen in an AST. The second incarnation used RMS $GET_K and $UPDATE in the main and fopen/fprintf in the AST and that is when fopenT& would cause a crash after a few calls.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:17:44 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)R< Subject: Re: fopen() behavior difference...bug or undefined?3 Message-ID: <d1h6QSGplxvY@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  e In article <iRF58.99281$vH6.5746667@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, Ernest <wmozart5@yahoo.com> writes: & > Consider this C source code snippet: >  > FILE *fd;O > int writable;i6 > writable = ((fd = fopen( "foo.txt", "a" )) != NULL); > fclose( fd );R > J > On MS-Windows and several Unix platforms I've tested this on, this code K > does NOT update foo.txt's "last modified" time (nothing is written).  On QM > OpenVMS/Alpha 7.2 with Compaq C/C++ 6.4, it does.  Is the behavior of such  L > code considered C library-implementation-specific and thus no assumptions  > can be made?    ?    This is file system specific, and pretty much independent ofED    language.  On VMS the modified date is changed any time you close?    a file that was opened with write access.  C's append accessa-    certainly is a for of writing to the file.D  H    What Windows or UNIX considers a file modification is a great mysteryF    likely to change with the phases of the moon, the type of UNIX, or F    the Outlook functional patch you didn't know was built into a Word     security patch.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:02:21 -0800 From: lom@graphium.dk (lom)_% Subject: ftp logon from windows promtT= Message-ID: <da7047ac.0201300802.6f7ccc44@posting.google.com>m  	 Hi there R  . I want to hear iff any one know how to logon a  ftp server from a windows promt.   ex hostname:user@passwordR     look forward to hear from youT   Lars-Ove Madsenl lom@xponcard.dk= denmark.   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jan 2002 16:35:41 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)n) Subject: Re: ftp logon from windows promt/' Message-ID: <a397ct$7a7$1@joe.rice.edu>    lom (lom@graphium.dk) wrote: : Hi there h :a0 : I want to hear iff any one know how to logon a" : ftp server from a windows promt. :U : ex hostname:user@passwordw : ! Is this what you had in mind ?...      C:\>ftp 209.16.45.102    Connected to 209.16.45.102. L   220-Warning: your access is being logged - trespassers will be violated  !?   220 209-16-45-102.insync.net FTP Server (Version 4.2) Ready.D%   User (209.16.45.102:(none)): leslie )   331 Username LESLIE requires a PasswordC   Password:t   230 User logged in.    Here's the help for FTP...  G    Transfers files to and from a computer running an FTP server service">    (sometimes called a daemon). Ftp can be used interactively.  N    FTP [-v] [-d] [-i] [-n] [-g] [-s:filename] [-a] [-w:windowsize] [-A] [host]  B      -v             Suppresses display of remote server responses.B      -n             Suppresses auto-login upon initial connection.H      -i             Turns off interactive prompting during multiple file                     transfers.&      -d             Enables debugging.B      -g             Disables filename globbing (see GLOB command).F      -s:filename    Specifies a text file containing FTP commands; theE                     commands will automatically run after FTP starts. I      -a             Use any local interface when binding data connection.t'      -A             login as anonymous. G      -w:buffersize  Overrides the default transfer buffer size of 4096.sG      host           Specifies the host name or IP address of the remoteu'                     host to connect to.   E Or are you asking how to script an ftp login ?   If so, try a Windows" newsgroup; e.g.:     o comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc!   o comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc"  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:45:06 -0500n1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>d) Subject: Re: ftp logon from windows promt 2 Message-ID: <3C583122.E8B1D2C2@firstdbasource.com>  
 lom wrote: > 
 > Hi there > 0 > I want to hear iff any one know how to logon a" > ftp server from a windows promt. >  > ex hostname:user@passwordn >  > look forward to hear from youm >  > Lars-Ove Madseni > lom@xponcard.dk 	 > denmarki  G search the web for WS_FTP and use this "windows-like" interface.  works / fairly well. There is a free version available.1 --     Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:17:04 +0900u& From: "David Lee" <phongle@kornet.net> Subject: ftp time out + Message-ID: <a38d2u$o6i$1@news1.kornet.net>n  G I have a PC that connect to an Alpha running VMS.  I usually ftp to the_L Alpha from the PC, no problems at all.  the problem I have is it kept timingK out if there is no activity for a period, say 15 minutes which I have to go  back in and do an ftp again.J Is there away you can extend that ftp session so it does not time out.  IsJ this something that you can change on your pc or the Alpha?  and what need to be changed?	 Thank you    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:30:00 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: ftp time out)) Message-ID: <3C57CB28.1A609638@127.0.0.1>e   David Lee wrote: > L > Is there away you can extend that ftp session so it does not time out.  IsL > this something that you can change on your pc or the Alpha?  and what need > to be changed?  A Yes, you change something on the SERVER end, i.e. the VMS system.'  F e.g. under Multinet you use the logical MULTINET_FTP_MAXIMUM_IDLE_TIMEG as detailed in the administrators documentation, a 0 value disables theu timeout.  D However you don't identify the TCPIP package you're using so without that we can't really help you.   -- .( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jan 2002 13:46:59 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)u Subject: Re: ftp time outf' Message-ID: <a38tgj$rdf$1@joe.rice.edu>$  ) Nic Clews (sendspamhere@127.0.0.1) wrote:eF : However you don't identify the TCPIP package you're using so without  : that we can't really help you. :_J From a private email, David is using Digital TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS,  version 5.1, IIRC.  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:01:49 -0500t1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: ftp time outa2 Message-ID: <3C580ADD.298D5844@firstdbasource.com>   David Lee wrote: > I > I have a PC that connect to an Alpha running VMS.  I usually ftp to thesN > Alpha from the PC, no problems at all.  the problem I have is it kept timingM > out if there is no activity for a period, say 15 minutes which I have to go  > back in and do an ftp again.L > Is there away you can extend that ftp session so it does not time out.  IsL > this something that you can change on your pc or the Alpha?  and what need > to be changed? > Thank you    for TCPIP it is:   disable serv ftp set service ftp /intact=15 enabl serv ftp sho serv ftp /full   -- m   Regards,  F Michael Austin  -- Need a Remote/Part-time Systems/Database/Web Admin?7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.com. Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:49:29 -0500t1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: ftp time out 2 Message-ID: <3C583229.EE82C277@firstdbasource.com>   David Lee wrote: > I > I have a PC that connect to an Alpha running VMS.  I usually ftp to thebN > Alpha from the PC, no problems at all.  the problem I have is it kept timingM > out if there is no activity for a period, say 15 minutes which I have to go: > back in and do an ftp again.L > Is there away you can extend that ftp session so it does not time out.  IsL > this something that you can change on your pc or the Alpha?  and what need > to be changed? > Thank your  0 Let's try spelling things correctly this time... for TCPIP it is:   disable serv ftp0 set service ftp /intactivity=15  !! or whatever. enabl serv ftp sho serv ftp /full   -- 2   Regards,  F Michael Austin  -- Need a Remote/Part-time Systems/Database/Web Admin?7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comr Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:47:27 GMTB! From: Ernest <wmozart5@yahoo.com> 1 Subject: Re: How to get/put the symbol list in C?yC Message-ID: <iyN58.194875$QB1.14254890@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>l  F "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com> wrote in6 news:3C576F03.9090708@nospam.signaltreesolutions.com:   H > ports in the past. I don't know how good they are so perhaps your work > is still needed.  F It's part of my day job as of late...not exactly an optional endeavor.   > lib$set_symbol.    Ah, that should do it.  Thanks!d  G > You will also see a routine called getredirection() that does commandtI > redirection and most of the Unixy command goodies such as ending with a ) > "&" to run the command as a subprocess.L  D I think I'll just try to use PIPE as a command prepend first, which J handles all that kind of stuff as desired already, and will keep the code  much more portable.s  
 Thanks again,i Ernest   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 02:08:17 -0500s( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>J Subject: Re: How to tell if File is locked in C ?fopen extension pehraps ?, Message-ID: <3C579BE1.6000400@tsoft-inc.com>   pocketmoon wrote:i    > Hi Folks,  >%  > OpenVMS 7.2 Dec C (cant remember!)c  >B  > I'm scanning through a directory tree using opendir/readdir andE  > would like to determine if a file is locked, i.e. currently openedy=  > by another user (who would in fact be writing to the file)l  >I  > I'm trying to replace a bit of C code which gets the lock status (and -G creation/modification dates) by calling a DCL script via the C system() H  > function. This script creates a logical with either date set and the  C code&  > then reads this logical back in (!)  >K  > The DCL gets the creation or modification timestamp via a file attributeaI  > call which fails if the file is being written to by another user. This F  > failure is returned back to the C which assumes the file is locked.  >G  >  So I'm thinking perhaps there's perhaps a DEC C extension to fopen s which,K  > e.g. fp = fopen (myfile, "r", "???=???)  which will ask for an exclusiveiD  > lock on the file, which will of course fail if it's already open.  >	  > Cheers   >	  > Rob J.h  I If you want to see what RMS files are open, scanning the DLM database is s one option.l       --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486  C  > > creation/modification dates) by calling a DCL script via the C D  > system() function. This script creates a logical with either date9  > set and the C code then reads this logical back in (!)e  >A  > The DCL gets the creation or modification timestamp via a filet@  > attribute call which fails if the file is being written to byE  > another user. This failure is returned back to the C which assumesl  > the file is locked.  >E  > So I'm thinking perhaps there's perhaps a DEC C extension to fopen E  > which, e.g. fp = fopen (myfile, "r", "???=???)  which will ask fornC  > an exclusive lock on the file, which will of course fail if it's-  > already open.  >	  > Cheers:  >	  > Rob J.a  I If you want to see what RMS files are open, scanning the DLM database is iE one option.  Possibly not the best.  Specific inquiries into the DLM aI database might also work.  As for locked resources below the file level,   this is also available.l  : Not sure what you're trying to do, more detail might help.  G I do have a stand-alone program that reports on the DLM database, file aI locks, record (bucket)locks, and blocked locks.  LEt me know if this may d	 help you.e   Dave   -- f4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:19:16 GMTo From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG 1 Subject: Re: Intel Special issue of OpenVMS Timesu0 Message-ID: <00A08CE6.E3AD2F88@SendSpamHere.ORG>  o In article <857e9e41.0201291520.35f36d@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:N >Dave and Terry, >s5 >Please forgive the spelling mistakes I am on a role.D >fG >Thank you very much for your kind words.  This was my first time doingNG >a newsletter and I am glad you found it useful and I hope you like theg >Intel issue as well.a  H A few more kind words too.  Thanks, this issue is readable on VMS unlikeH the last issue.  Can't you go back a revisit that issue and format it inH the same way?  I have been printing these out on the color laser printerH for my personal archives and I will always have a big gaping hole in the set without the last issue.F   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            rJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesl   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:19:38 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y1 Subject: Re: Intel Special issue of OpenVMS TimesE3 Message-ID: <i8so6mS4LdVB@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <857e9e41.0201291520.35f36d@posting.google.com>, susan_skonetski@hotmail.com (Sue Skonetski) writes:v > B > And in case you thought you would be rid of me in the newsgroup. >  > NO WAY ;')  E    Great, for a day there we thought we might loose you.  Please leanh%    on your successor to join in, too.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:21:33 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>  Subject: Re: Intrusions deletion) Message-ID: <3C57C92D.92F19FAA@127.0.0.1>i   valdemir-@uol.com.br wrote:e  : >     Is there any lexical function to extract intrusions >     record ? > @ >     Id like made a command procedure to delete all intrusions< >     records in my system. (now im using VAX/VMS5.5-2, and? >     the command del/intru * doesnt work... only in OpenVMS).    How about SHOW INTRU/OUTPUT=D then open the output file in DCL and use of the F$EDIT and F$ELEMENTF lexicals should isolate the source into a symbol you can feed into the DELETE/INTRU command.e   -- m( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:08:11 -0200 (BRST) From: valdemir-@uol.com.br Subject: lexicals question4 Message-ID: <200201300708.FAA03473@wilde.uol.com.br>  : Is there any lexical to extract Authorize informations,=20) like default user=B4s directory, etc ?=20r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:33:57 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: lexicals question) Message-ID: <3C57CC15.6B7469C7@127.0.0.1>e   valdemir-@uol.com.br wrote:i > 9 > Is there any lexical to extract Authorize informations,-& > like default users directory, etc ?  G No, but it is probably quite possible to OPEN/SHARE=WRITE the UAF file,sH READ/KEY the user record, and extract the portion of the user record youA want. The file format is defined, somewhere in the documentation.p   -- o( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:59:44 +0100m, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl> Subject: Re: lexicals question= Message-ID: <3c57d2aa$0$186$e4fe514c@dreader4.news.xs4all.nl>a  5 "Nic Clews" <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote in messagea# news:3C57CC15.6B7469C7@127.0.0.1...n > valdemir-@uol.com.br wrote:m > > ; > > Is there any lexical to extract Authorize informations,g( > > like default users directory, etc ? >sI > No, but it is probably quite possible to OPEN/SHARE=WRITE the UAF file, J > READ/KEY the user record, and extract the portion of the user record youC > want. The file format is defined, somewhere in the documentation.p  & You could also use the GETUAI package,; http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?GETUAId  ? This will allow you to use the $GETUAI system service from DCL.H  	 Bart Zorn6   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:21:55 GMTr From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG  Subject: Re: lexicals question0 Message-ID: <00A08CE7.426624F8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  T In article <3C57CC15.6B7469C7@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes: >valdemir-@uol.com.br wrote: >>  : >> Is there any lexical to extract Authorize informations,' >> like default users directory, etc ?, > H >No, but it is probably quite possible to OPEN/SHARE=WRITE the UAF file,I >READ/KEY the user record, and extract the portion of the user record youyB >want. The file format is defined, somewhere in the documentation.   SYS$LIBRARY:LIB.MLB\$UAFDEFn --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbesm   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 02:37:13 -08005 From: pat.saunders@sis.securicor.co.uk (pat saunders)-$ Subject: licenses / node name change= Message-ID: <bc0e3bd8.0201300237.360f8c0d@posting.google.com>:   hi,gB We have changed the Node name and Dec-Net address of our Micro vax 3100-30.D Does any one know the commands to reset licenses that are restrictedF to the previous node name, The FAQ page glosses over how to do this!!! We are using vms-vax 5-2.o ta pats   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:24:15 +0000 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>( Subject: Re: licenses / node name change) Message-ID: <3C57D7DF.79DB75A6@127.0.0.1>g   pat saunders wrote:. >  > hi, D > We have changed the Node name and Dec-Net address of our Micro vax
 > 3100-30.F > Does any one know the commands to reset licenses that are restrictedH > to the previous node name, The FAQ page glosses over how to do this!!!  6 $ LICENSE MOD product/AUTH=auth /INCLUDE=new-node-name  B If the product is unique enough, you may get away without the AUTH< string, but a LICENSE LIST/FULL will give you what you need.   -- .( Regards, Nic Clews CSC Computer Sciences nclews at csc dot comw   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:36:27 +0000 (GMT)a) From: Andy Harper <Andy.Harper@kcl.ac.uk> 1 Subject: Re: Moving from CMU-IP to TCPIP serviceso: Message-ID: <SIMEON.10201301127.V@kings-ut-srv1.kcl.ac.uk>  C On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:52:12 -0500 JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>   wrote:  O > One of my Vaxes has CMU-IP tcpip stack (mostly because I needed PPP which was-  > never ported to VAX-VMS/TCPIP. > L > Now that need has gone away, and I would like to install TCPIP Services on< > that node. (long term goal is to have homogenous cluster). > A > Has anyone made such a move, and if so, are there any gotchas ?  > P > I know that when I upgraded to 7.2 on that node, it zapped the CMUIP telnet toO > put in the TCPIP service's CLD (even though TCPIP services wasn't installed).  > O > If I remember correctly, the CMU IP manual does have a list of files that aresM > installed, so I guess I would only need to delete those files individually, 	 > right ?   G    All cmu IP files are in the directory CMUIP_ROOT:[000000] (which is  A    probably equivalent to sys$sysdevice:[cmuip.] if you used the l
    defaults).   F    In your system startup procedure, there should be a reference to a E    file called IP_STARTUP.COM in this directory - simply remove that i    and reboot.  C    Once you've rebooted, all of the files in that directory can be n.    deleted and that's it - you've removed CMU.  G    Take care if CMUIP_ROOT points at a directory that is NOT unique to 1:    cmu; you don't want to end up deleting the wrong stuff.   Regards,   ----------------------! Andy Harper B.Sc., M.B.C.S, C.Engd Systems and Mail Manager Kings College London   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:56:57 +0100d= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>w Subject: Re: New VMS newsgroup) Message-ID: <3C5809B9.156948E8@gtech.com>1   "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote: < > Please split this newsgroup in to comp.os.vms.advocacy and > comp.os.vms.technical-, > the volume of messages is getting too big.   I am 100% for.   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 03:40:45 -0800, From: tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung)H Subject: Opening a file for writing in shareable mode (newbie questions)= Message-ID: <f9dc0a5a.0201300340.5303050c@posting.google.com>    Hi All,   C I am trying to open a log file for writting in a C++ application in  OpenVMS 7.3.  F I am only familar with Unix and I just found out while the applicationE is writting to the log, the user cannot view the log file due to fileeD locking. (originally I've thought they could do a unix equivalent of tail -f)  + Here's the code I use to open the log file,   ? ::open(_fileName.c_str(), O_CREAT | O_APPEND | O_WRONLY, 00644))  C Is there any way to open a file for writing so that other users can  view it?  D I've tried to dig into all those manuals but could not find anything useful.g   Thank you very much.   Tony CheungA   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:26:38 GMTe From: system@SendSpamHere.ORGmL Subject: Re: Opening a file for writing in shareable mode (newbie questions)0 Message-ID: <00A08CE7.EB1C0571@SendSpamHere.ORG>  l In article <f9dc0a5a.0201300340.5303050c@posting.google.com>, tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung) writes: >Hi All, >yD >I am trying to open a log file for writting in a C++ application in
 >OpenVMS 7.3.  >-G >I am only familar with Unix and I just found out while the applicationlF >is writting to the log, the user cannot view the log file due to fileE >locking. (originally I've thought they could do a unix equivalent ofo	 >tail -f)e > , >Here's the code I use to open the log file, > @ >::open(_fileName.c_str(), O_CREAT | O_APPEND | O_WRONLY, 00644)  @ ::open(_fileName.c_str(), O_CREAT | O_APPEND | O_WRONLY, 00644, .        "shr=get","rfm=var","rat=cr","mrs=255")  @ I believe is the syntax.  I use the fopen() in C and this works.  J Keep the file rfm:var and rat:cr and more VMS applications will be able to" process the file while it is open.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt            nJ   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbest   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:37:03 -0800, From: tony.cheung@asiayeah.com (Tony Cheung)H Subject: OpenVMS efficiency with running the same process multiple times= Message-ID: <f9dc0a5a.0201300837.1a4ad88b@posting.google.com>e   Hi All,   A I'd like to know the efficency of OpenVMS running a OpenVMS C/C++=? images (.EXE) multiple times. Is there any copy-on-write memoryh, savings of loading the EXE file into memory?  D Is there any difference in efficiency between using shared libraries or static linking?   Thank you very much.   Tony Cheung    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:47:55 -0500d1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>-L Subject: Re: OpenVMS efficiency with running the same process multiple times2 Message-ID: <3C5831CB.D00473B1@firstdbasource.com>   Tony Cheung wrote: > 	 > Hi All,  > C > I'd like to know the efficency of OpenVMS running a OpenVMS C/C++ A > images (.EXE) multiple times. Is there any copy-on-write memoryk. > savings of loading the EXE file into memory? > F > Is there any difference in efficiency between using shared libraries > or static linking? >  > Thank you very much. > 
 > Tony Cheungn  E using INSTALL add/open/header <full-file-spec>  should reduce some ofo' the overhead for this particular image.e --     Regards,  > Michael Austin  -- Remote and Onsite System/Database/Web Admin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.comi Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:11:41 +0100r- From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> 4 Subject: problems with TLZ09 tapedrive under VMS7.3?3 Message-ID: <3C57E2FD.1E1BA451@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>    Hi all  E  Since I installed OpenVMS7.3 just over a half year ago, the problemscH with our TLZ09 tapedrive have increased. (the drive itself should be OK,G since it was replaced (some mechanical problems with tape in/exsertion)n within the last half year)G The error log give lots of entries like the one which I attached below.  What I suspect is the 7    Sense Key                       x05  Illegal RequesthG Before installing VMS7.3 I never saw this error. The first occurance istE just in the first week after the installation and continues appearingo! everytime when the drive is used. 3  The problems I observe (using brand new tapes!!!):n@  -When performing a BACKUP/VER it starts verifying the tape when@ not         even half of the expected amount of data is written.D  -It stops in the middle of the process telling me there is an errorF in      the label processing and after that it is not able to position' the       tape for a succesive saveset.R@  -The problem seems to have gotten worse, since I installed some( patches    that updated the MKDRIVER.EXEH  -A TLZ07 drive on one of the other members of the cluster seems to haveG    none of the above problems when executing exactly the same commands.a  G  What do you thing is this a software problem (MKDRIVER???) or should IeC dive more into hardware problems. In the latter case I have no idea B where to look since the 2 harddisks on the same SCSI chain give no problem at all.i  m           Jouk      + **** V3.3  ********************* ENTRY 6551f! ******************************** c    - Logging OS                        1. OpenVMS e+ System Architecture               2. Alpha g. OS version                           V7.3     % Event sequence number         12061. f: Timestamp of occurrence              29-JAN-2002 16:29:16 7 Time since reboot                    14 Day(s) 4:41:59 l. Host name                            POLKA      C System Model                         Digital Personal WorkStation  e  2 Entry Type                        1. Device Error     ' ---- Device Profile ----               i2 Unit                                 POLKA$MKA300 + Product Name                         TLZ09 n) Vendor                               DEC n  ' -- Driver Supplied Info -               * Device Firmware Revision             03a5 E VMS SCSI Error Type               5. Extended Sense Data from Device E$ SCSI ID                         x03 $ SCSI LUN                        x00 $ SCSI SUBLUN                     x00 A Port Status               x00000001  NORMAL  -  normal successfuls completion eA SCSI Command Opcode             x1A  Mode Sense (6 byte command)  ' Command Data                            $                                 x00 $                                 x01 $                                 x00 $                                 x64 $                                 x00 '                                        n5 SCSI Status                     x02  Check Condition  % Remaining Byte Length            24. "  ' --- Device Sense Data ---              l  3 Error Code                      x70  Current Error '$ Segment #                       x00 $ Information Byte 3              x00 $             Byte 2              x00 $             Byte 1              x00 $             Byte 0              x00 5 Sense Key                       x05  Illegal Request r$ Additional Sense Length         x12 $ CMD Specific Info Byte 3        x00 $                   Byte 2        x00 $                   Byte 1        x00 $                   Byte 0        x00 4 ASC & ASCQ                    x2400  ASC  =   x0024 4                                      ASCQ =   x0000 :                                      Invalid Field in CDB $ FRU Code                        x00 : Sense Key Specific Byte 0       xCD  Valid Sense Key Data $                    Byte 1       x00 $                    Byte 2       x02   % Count of valid bytes:             6. e    ?           15--<-12  11--<-08  07--<-04  03--<-00   :Byte Order :F  0000:    00000000  00000000  00003A00  00000000   *.....:..........*     ' ----- Software Info -----              0: UCB$x_ERTCNT                     16. Retries Remaining    : UCB$x_ERTMAX                     16. Retries Allowable    , IRP$Q_IOSB                x0000000000000000 , UCB$x_STS                 x00000910  Online *                                      Busy 4                                      Software Valid 8 IRP$L_PID                 x00010049  Requestor "PID"    9 IRP$x_BOFF                        0. Byte Page Offset    aA IRP$x_BCNT                        0. Transfer Size In Byte(s)     9 UCB$x_ERRCNT                    152. Errors This Unit    l8 UCB$L_OPCNT                  502436. QIO's This Unit    3 ORB$L_OWNER               x00010004  Owners UIC    s5 UCB$L_DEVCHAR1            x0CC44421  Record Oriented AA                                      "Sequential Block" Oriented e3                                      File Oriented i/                                      Available h3                                      Error Logging -/                                      Allocated r6                                      Capable of Input 6                                      Capable of Output   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:18:57 -0800 (PST)p. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Q Subject: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)h@ Message-ID: <20020130111857.60334.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>  $ We have  Proliants here at Petrobras  and its management software can # display the memory slots (hardware)- What decadence for Alphas...   Regards    Fc      0 --- Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote: > In article >D5 <20020129105714.37464.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>,r > Fabio + > Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:a >  > 2 > Please (if possible) turn off "quoted-printable" > encoding!r > 
 > >Kenneth > >s > >In one machine I have > >m > >System Configuration: > >--------------------- > >System Information:6 > >System Type    AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB           > =20o > >Primary CPU ID 006 > >Cycle Time     1.6 nsec (598 MHz)                   > =20t > >Pagesize       8192 Byteu > >f > >Memory Configuration:2 > >Cluster    PFN Start    PFN Count         Range > >(MByte)        Usageo5 > > #00             0          256         0.0 MB -  3 > =200 > >2.0 MB    Console6 > > #01           256       524023         2.0 MB -=20 > >4095.9 MB    System6 > > #02        524279            9      4095.9 MB -=20 > >4096.0 MB    Consoleo >  > - > This shows only the coarsest view of memoryr  > allocation between the console3 > and the OS.  Nothing about the physical layout in  > the slots. > 2 > I don't think there is a general way to get this > information that works6 > across all alpha platforms.  It's a low-level detail > of the hardware, and4 > many schemes have been used.  The OS does not need > to know the physical  > layout, and AFAIK it does not. > 1 > The console does not necessarily know about thed > slots either.  Console3 > firmware sizes and tests the memory, but it has an > "logical" view, not am0 > slot-based view.  Sometimes these differ.  For > example, on a DEC 2 > 3000-400/500/600/700/800/900 system, the console > displays twice as many0 > "logical" memory banks as the actual number of > physical memory options.  1 > In these systems, a memory option consists of 8d > DIMMs grouped a certainc. > way in the slots.  A logical memory bank, as > displayed by the console,75 > turns out to consist of all the memory on 1 side ofs > all 8 DIMMs.  If there1 > are memory chips on the other side of the DIMMs > (they come in both5 > varieties), those chips make another logical bank. =
 > So on a DECi0 > 3000-400/600/700, there are 4 logical banks, 2 > physical memory kits, andu3 > 16 DIMM slots.  On a 3000-500/800/900, double alle > these numbers. Memoryo6 > controller hardware obviously knows how to sort this > out, but the console4 > simply probes addresses and deduces what's present > from the response of2 > the memory subsystem.  The console builds memory > descriptor tables for the:3 > OS to access, and that is approximately what CLUER > CONFIG is showing yous
 > above.   > 3 > For the DEC 3000 models, the "system programmer's6 > manual" has been1 > available around the web; it details the memoryi > subsystem, and reveals3 > that there are memory descriptor registers in thea > hardware.  A program3 > could map these registers into virtual memory and  > get enough information4 > from them to figure out the memory slot occupancy  > -- but the program5 > wouldn't work on any other system.  Similar manualse > probably exist for all6 > the alpha systems, but I suspect they are never seen > outside of DigipaQ.  > 3 > If you want more detail about how the console and  > the OS discuss memory,6 > look in the Internals and Data Structures book; IIRC > the structures hanga5 > off the HWRPB somewhere.  But this won't answer the- > original question. > 2 > The best (available source of information for an > alpha system is likely to 6 > be the service guide, which is typically not shipped > with a new system,. > but is orderable.  The part number should be > referenced in the owner's 5 > guide.  These documents should tell you what memorye > configurations are5 > allowed and how the slots are grouped.  After that,e > you will likely need, > to open up the box and see what is already > installed, unless someone was-* > wise enough to write it down previously. > 1 > Sometimes the memory capacity of a system grows. > after the manuals are 4 > written, as bigger memory chips become available.  > On some systems, the1 > memory subsystem is designed to work with thesem > future possibilities, butM4 > such overcapacity configurations may not be tested > and documented for the4 > outside world to know about them.  The system will > either see the memoryt6 > or it won't; power supply considerations can be more	 > subtle.  > 6 > On newer alpha systems, there is some infrastructure > to descibe the "fieldE5 > replaceable units" (FRUs) in a system.  When such aa > description is1 > available, it likely includes individual memory- > modules, but not2 > necessarily the groups of modules that make up a > "kit" of memory.  Again,2 > this stuff is generally hanging around the HWRPB > somewhere, but is not-4 > documented. Tools such as Compaq Analyze (shudder) > are available that can2 > likely find this information and translate it to
 > English. > 4 > I'm not particularly familiar with the Alphaserver > 4100.  I don't knowo4 > what it has in the area of FRU information lurking > within its dustier datas
 > structures.i     =====h ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! ' http://auctions.yahoo.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:49:18 +0100 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>n1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof ) Message-ID: <3C5807EE.2DAEB1D1@gtech.com>    JF Mezei wrote:q > Martin Vorlaender wrote:- > >> > What is a "dll" in a VMS environment ?I > >rN > > It's a (shared?) executable offering the entry points defined by the ISAPI > > interface. > 6 > Why not use the VMS standard shared images ? (.exe )   I think it is.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:50:15 +0100e= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofn) Message-ID: <3C580826.8DACEA9D@gtech.com>    Paul Repacholi wrote: ) > JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: 8 > > Why not use the VMS standard shared images ? (.exe ) > H > They are mapped at run time with... <mumble>... that find image symbol
 > thing :)  > LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL only works on standard shareable images.C Nothing weird about that (except maybe the name of the function !).    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jan 2002 23:20:21 -0800( From: prakash_balaji@yahoo.com (Prakash)+ Subject: Regarding search in all Job Tables-= Message-ID: <8e40535b.0201292320.717d34e5@posting.google.com>0   Hi,   F Is there any way we can search for a particular logical defined in anyF of the Job tables using C langauage & VMS OS system services. Any info will be very handy.g   Thanks,  Prakash.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 07:12:28 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org/ Subject: Re: Regarding search in all Job Tablesi3 Message-ID: <B4EwULleM2nl@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  h In article <8e40535b.0201292320.717d34e5@posting.google.com>, prakash_balaji@yahoo.com (Prakash) writes:H > Is there any way we can search for a particular logical defined in anyH > of the Job tables using C langauage & VMS OS system services. Any info > will be very handy.e  ? No.  The supported interfaces provide non-wildcard lookup only.b  = Without reaching directly into the name table data structuresoG and doing the scan yourself, your best bet would be to spawn out to DCL:' and parse the output of something like:m  0 $ SHOW LOGICAL your-target-name /TABLE=LNM$JOB_*   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:09:41 +0100<  From: "Poiter" <johan@noway.not>' Subject: Remotely starting batch on VMS(9 Message-ID: <3c5828c9$0$223$4d4ebb8e@read.news.nl.uu.net>l  < What is an easy way to launch .com files on VMS from WinNT ?   PB   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:25:54 +0100r9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> + Subject: Re: Remotely starting batch on VMS ' Message-ID: <3C582CA2.3248F4B4@aaa.com>e  ) Two ways are using rexec or mail/deliver.f   Jan-Erik Sderholm.N  
 Poiter wrote:E > > > What is an easy way to launch .com files on VMS from WinNT ? >  > PB   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 11:55:05 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org+ Subject: Re: Remotely starting batch on VMSt3 Message-ID: <zPvGu+XcmM67@eisner.encompasserve.org>w  \ In article <3c5828c9$0$223$4d4ebb8e@read.news.nl.uu.net>, "Poiter" <johan@noway.not> writes:> > What is an easy way to launch .com files on VMS from WinNT ?   rsh is pretty nice.s  D If you have some file transfer mechanism, an interesting alternativeE would be a spooled device associated with a batch queue.  Copy a file-I to the spooled device and when you close the transfer, the file executes.c  E In the absence of a spooled device, you can play games by overwritingsD your LOGIN.COM and starting a new FTP session, thereby executing the trojan code that you put there.e  C If you've got DECnet or a very full function file transfer package,EB the "submit on close" option within RMS also can get the job done.  B Or you could set up background process on VMS to periodically poll? a directory for command files to execute.  Have the Windows box 9 drop a file there and it gets executed on the next cycle.-  5 Or you could script a TELNET using Kermit or similar.    	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 10:38:26 -0800 From: germanhd@usa.net (Holger)s0 Subject: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE= Message-ID: <54239d74.0201301038.3a4d7bf1@posting.google.com>e  D I have a Storageworks RAIDArray 310 (Digital SWXRA-Z1) and wanted to- configure it via the console port. It reportsi   HSZ20> show this_controllero Controller: 7         HSZ20 AY73325869 Firmware V31Z-2, Hardware  E01r*         Not configured for dual-redundancy         SCSI address 7         Time: NOT SET 
 Host port:9         SCSI target(s) (1, 2, 3, 4), No preferred targetsv'         TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED = 10MHZ  Cache:*         16 megabyte write cache, version 2:         Cache is INVALID.  Cache containing unflushed data.          has been removed from this controller         Battery is LOW'         Unknown unflushed data in cacher0         CACHE_FLUSH_TIMER = DEFAULT (10 seconds)         CACHE_POLICY = B         NOCACHE_UPSS#         Host Functionality Mode = Ah+ This controller has an invalid cache modulesE Invalid cache -- CLI command set reduced.  Type SHOW THIS_CONTROLLER.Z Please-i. see user guide to determine corrective action.  B Since I don't have the user guide I would appreciate any help with= this problem or a hint where to find/download that userguide.e' Best regards and many thanks in advancew Holger   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:03:00 +0100h= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>c Subject: Re: STR$lowercase ?) Message-ID: <3C580B24.BED5C078@gtech.com>p   Rick Dyson wrote:hJ >         With your help, I have written this which appears to work.  DoesG > anyone see any problems with it?  It is not documented nor tested for 
 > robustness, I > but it appears to work with a simple test program I through together...   G Both LIB$MOVTC and the LIB$AB_ tables has been documented for >10 yearsr !a   Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 07:58:41 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t  Subject: Re: There must be a way3 Message-ID: <0jMhkFr$IFPn@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  M In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry Tunis <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:iH > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster. IF > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive byH > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a system9 > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way.o    H    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition	    disks.c  H    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veH    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actuallyD    on one disk.  Replace new, old1, odl2, old3 below with the proper     logical names for your disks:  C    1) on the new disk, create directories for each of the three old        disks:         	 $create/dir new:[old0]       	 $create/dir new:[old1]       	 $create/dir new:[old2]  G    2) copy the trees from each of the old disks to the new directories:   8       	 $backup old0:[*...] new:[old0...]/owner=original8       	 $backup old1:[*...] new:[old1...]/owner=original8       	 $backup old2:[*...] new:[old2...]/owner=original  A    3) remove the three old disks, and define three logical names:   C       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -I       	    old0 new:[old0.]0C       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -        	    old1 new:[old1.] C       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -m       	    old2 new:[old2.]M  B    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butC    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commands  E    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actual !    directory on old0 for somedir:       $set default old0:[somedir]
    $directory    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:08:03 +0100 (MET)t9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   Subject: Re: There must be a way; Message-ID: <01KDOQ0JG3IQ8ZJH7N@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   J >    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition >    disks.y   What about RAID?  J >    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veJ >    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actually >    on one disk.    > D >    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butE >    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commands 0G >    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actual # >    directory on old0 for somedir:I  B "Dynamic partitions" :-)  In that sense, better than fixed ones.  C However, they don't REALLY behave TRANSPARENTLY like real disks or BE partitions---for example with BACKUP (especially /IMAGE), SHOW DEVICEd etc.     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:40:02 -0800y# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>0  Subject: RE: There must be a way9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIELNEAAA.tom@kednos.com>C  I OK, this is almost like a Unix symbolic link.  Can you go the other way?,  i.e.G have directories on some drive which correspond to actual mounted files0 systems.@ This would greatly faciltate the use of bash, for example.  Thus  , disk$root:[a] would point to disk$a:[000000]  I I realize, that this could get pretty confusing in a cluster, but in some" ways# it is really no different than nfs.B   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:59 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: Re: There must be a way >  > 5 > In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry TunisC > <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:4J > > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster. IH > > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive byJ > > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a system; > > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way.A >c >dJ >    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition >    disks.  > J >    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veJ >    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actuallyF >    on one disk.  Replace new, old1, odl2, old3 below with the proper" >    logical names for your disks: >.E >    1) on the new disk, create directories for each of the three oldo >       disks: >e  >       	 $create/dir new:[old0]  >       	 $create/dir new:[old1]  >       	 $create/dir new:[old2] > I >    2) copy the trees from each of the old disks to the new directories:e >D: >       	 $backup old0:[*...] new:[old0...]/owner=original: >       	 $backup old1:[*...] new:[old1...]/owner=original: >       	 $backup old2:[*...] new:[old2...]/owner=original >gC >    3) remove the three old disks, and define three logical names:o >gE >       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -y >       	    old0 new:[old0.]BE >       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -9 >       	    old1 new:[old1.]tE >       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -t >       	    old2 new:[old2.]  > D >    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butD >    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commandsG >    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actual # >    directory on old0 for somedir:= >   >    $set default old0:[somedir] >    $directory  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:52:07 -0800N# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: There must be a way9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEELOEAAA.tom@kednos.com>s  I OK, this is almost like a Unix symbolic link.  Can you go the other way?,a i.e.G have directories on some drive which correspond to actual mounted filesl systems.@ This would greatly faciltate the use of bash, for example.  Thus  , disk$root:[a] would point to disk$a:[000000]  I I realize, that this could get pretty confusing in a cluster, but in somel ways# it is really no different than nfs.r  3 Also, where is the best place to stick the defines?s   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:59 AMe > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como" > Subject: Re: There must be a way >c > 5 > In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry Tunise > <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:uJ > > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster. IH > > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive byJ > > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a system; > > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way.i >  >uJ >    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition >    disks.o >rJ >    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veJ >    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actuallyF >    on one disk.  Replace new, old1, odl2, old3 below with the proper" >    logical names for your disks: >mE >    1) on the new disk, create directories for each of the three oldE >       disks: >"  >       	 $create/dir new:[old0]  >       	 $create/dir new:[old1]  >       	 $create/dir new:[old2] >,I >    2) copy the trees from each of the old disks to the new directories:a > : >       	 $backup old0:[*...] new:[old0...]/owner=original: >       	 $backup old1:[*...] new:[old1...]/owner=original: >       	 $backup old2:[*...] new:[old2...]/owner=original > C >    3) remove the three old disks, and define three logical names:h >lE >       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -  >       	    old0 new:[old0.]bE >       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -n >       	    old1 new:[old1.]IE >       	 $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -a >       	    old2 new:[old2.]. > D >    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butD >    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commandsG >    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actuale# >    directory on old0 for somedir:h >   >    $set default old0:[somedir] >    $directoryt >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:54:39 -0500k* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: There must be a way- Message-ID: <0033000049771487000002L072*@MHS>i  D =0AI've got some RZ24s and RZ25s lying around that I'll let you haveA real cheap if you need additional space for those three disks :^)e   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETp) Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 9:49 AMfB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET  Subject: RE: There must be a way    H OK, this is almost like a Unix symbolic link.  Can you go the other way= ?, i.e.H have directories on some drive which correspond to actual mounted files=   systems.@ This would greatly faciltate the use of bash, for example.  Thus  , disk$root:[a] would point to disk$a:[000000]  H I realize, that this could get pretty confusing in a cluster, but in so= me ways# it is really no different than nfs.,   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:59 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi" > Subject: Re: There must be a way >e > 5 > In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry Tunish > <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:dH > > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster=  IH > > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive b= y H > > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a sys= temm; > > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way._ >_ >_H >    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtit= iona >    disks.! > H >    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you= 'veaH >    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actua= llyhF >    on one disk.  Replace new, old1, odl2, old3 below with the proper" >    logical names for your disks: >zE >    1) on the new disk, create directories for each of the three old  >       disks: >r$ >             $create/dir new:[old0]$ >             $create/dir new:[old1]$ >             $create/dir new:[old2] >hH >    2) copy the trees from each of the old disks to the new directorie= s: >-@ >             $backup old0:[*...] new:[old0...]/owner=3Doriginal@ >             $backup old1:[*...] new:[old1...]/owner=3Doriginal@ >             $backup old2:[*...] new:[old2...]/owner=3Doriginal >CC >    3) remove the three old disks, and define three logical names:t >.H >             $define/system/executive/translation=3D(concealed,termina= l) -! >                old0 new:[old0.]mH >             $define/system/executive/translation=3D(concealed,termina= l) -! >                old1 new:[old1.]hH >             $define/system/executive/translation=3D(concealed,termina= l) -! >                old2 new:[old2.]  >JD >    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butD >    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commandsH >    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actual=  # >    directory on old0 for somedir:a >   >    $set default old0:[somedir] >    $directory  >=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:02:49 -0800-# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   Subject: RE: There must be a way9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEELPEAAA.tom@kednos.com>e   That wasn't the point.   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: WILLIAM WEBB [mailto:WWEBB1@email.usps.gov]o+ > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 6:55 AMw > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: RE: There must be a way >i >  >aC > I've got some RZ24s and RZ25s lying around that I'll let you havenC > real cheap if you need additional space for those three disks :^)d >o > WWWebb >o > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET + > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 9:49 AMbD > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET" > Subject: RE: There must be a way >M >BK > OK, this is almost like a Unix symbolic link.  Can you go the other way?,2 > i.e.I > have directories on some drive which correspond to actual mounted filesh
 > systems.B > This would greatly faciltate the use of bash, for example.  Thus >e. > disk$root:[a] would point to disk$a:[000000] > K > I realize, that this could get pretty confusing in a cluster, but in somer > ways% > it is really no different than nfs.a >a > > -----Original Message-----8 > > From: Bob Koehler [mailto:koehler@encompasserve.org]- > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:59 AMv > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com $ > > Subject: Re: There must be a way > >o > >c7 > > In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry Tunis- > > <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:JK > > > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster I J > > > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive byL > > > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a system= > > > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way.o > >  > >WL > >    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition
 > >    disks.t > >iL > >    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veL > >    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actuallyH > >    on one disk.  Replace new, old1, odl2, old3 below with the proper$ > >    logical names for your disks: > >tG > >    1) on the new disk, create directories for each of the three oldE > >       disks: > >c& > >             $create/dir new:[old0]& > >             $create/dir new:[old1]& > >             $create/dir new:[old2] > >rK > >    2) copy the trees from each of the old disks to the new directories:e > > @ > >             $backup old0:[*...] new:[old0...]/owner=original@ > >             $backup old1:[*...] new:[old1...]/owner=original@ > >             $backup old2:[*...] new:[old2...]/owner=original > >JE > >    3) remove the three old disks, and define three logical names:a > >kK > >             $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -n# > >                old0 new:[old0.]kK > >             $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -e# > >                old1 new:[old1.]sK > >             $define/system/executive/translation=(concealed,terminal) -e# > >                old2 new:[old2.]a > >uF > >    Now it looks like you've still got an old0, old1, and old2, butF > >    they're all actually using new.  That is the following commandsI > >    will provide the same result before and after, substitue an actual2% > >    directory on old0 for somedir:a > > " > >    $set default old0:[somedir] > >    $directoryt > >r   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 09:46:48 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org  Subject: RE: There must be a way3 Message-ID: <a1JmRHjRnzii@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  _ In article <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIIELNEAAA.tom@kednos.com>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:d  G [Please refrain from top-posting --- context restored with attributionsc probably all screwed up]  6 >> In article <3C56EA88.1032E346@lbl.gov>, Jerry Tunis >> <mjtunis@lbl.gov> writes:K >> > I have 3 old 380mb scsi drives (DUA0-2) on a small MicroVax cluster. IoI >> > want to retire these drives and replace them with a new big drive by0K >> > creating 3 partitions on it. Can one partition a VMS drive in a system:< >> > running VAX/VMS version V5.5-2? There must be some way. >> >>K >>    There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition  >>    disks. >>K >>    You can, however use rooted logical names to make it look like you'veuK >>    got three separate trees on three disks even though they are actuallyh >>    on one disk.  K > OK, this is almost like a Unix symbolic link.  Can you go the other way?,-H > i.e. have directories on some drive which correspond to actual mounted > files systems.  E No.  You can use logical names as surrogates for device names, givingkC you the effect of a larger set of roots for file system trees.  ButbB there is no facility for grafting the root of one file system tree! in as a node within another tree.c  C One can layer emulation packages on top of VMS that provide support H for symbolic links.  The result is not always satisfactory.  Anyone else remember Eunice?  K > I realize, that this could get pretty confusing in a cluster, but in somew > ways% > it is really no different than nfs.a  > There is nothing about nfs that inherently involves the use ofA cross-device links within the file system hierarchy.  One _could_eF use NFS to paper over a cross-device link in the file system hierarchyG on the server and present a seamless directory tree to the client.  But B I don't think that's what you are talking about.  In any case, youF cannot paper over a cross-device link in a cluster-shared file system.  @ In NFS, the server presents a virtual file system to the client.I In clustering, all the members manipulate the actual file system on disk..   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:27:34 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>=  Subject: Re: There must be a way' Message-ID: <3C581EF6.1020709@mmaz.com>s   >  > G >>There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition  >>   disks.o >>F Are you sure about this?  Don't partitions appear as additional LUN's E for the SCSI ID?  That is what we see based on our SCSI to SCSI RAID a Array...   Barrym   -- m  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Jan 2002 16:53:24 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)   Subject: Re: There must be a way0 Message-ID: <a398e4$32d$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  U In article <3C581EF6.1020709@mmaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> writes:< >> >>H >>>There is no way to use partitions within VMS.  VMS does not aprtition >>>   disks. >>>7G >Are you sure about this?  Don't partitions appear as additional LUN's wF >for the SCSI ID?  That is what we see based on our SCSI to SCSI RAID 	 >Array...n  N Partitions are something completeley different from LUNs. Partitioning a driveK is a software thing, that is you write data onto the disk to specify how it I is organized. A LUN is a hardware feature that has to be supported by the L SCSI-board or controller of the device (here the board in your raid system).L Most likely your raid-array has a single SCSI address and uses LUNs in order+ to address specific disks within the array.i   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannn  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:13:37 +0200e' From: "Thys de Wet" <thys@it.sun.ac.za>c2 Subject: Upgarded to OpenVMS 7.3 Printing question0 Message-ID: <a38ri8$1b06$1@news.adamastor.ac.za>   Hi all,s  K We're in the process of migrating to an AlphaServer ES40 running OpenVMS7.3i  J On our previous OpenVMS versions in defining a form in the /SETUP= controlH file we've had to to "encapsulate" any PCL command between  "Esc P" (hex 1B50) and "Esc \" (hex 1B5C)K We've also used a RESET= parameter with the following data:   Esc]VMS;2Esc\@ (hex 1B5D564D533B1B5C)  L This was apparently necessary to fix some or other problem with printing theJ first page 1 line higher than the remaining pages in a report or something@ to that effect.  I was not involved with the forms at that time.  0 I just want to know if it's still needed or not.  ' The printer queue is set up as follows: L Server queue PQ_ARD_3_HP5SI, idle, on SUN023::, mounted form L221 (stock=A4)D   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=L001 (stock=A4)) /LIBRARY=FORMSLIB	 Lowercase 9   /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$LPD_SMB /NO_INITIAL_FFsL   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR /SEPARATE=(FLAG,RESET=(RESET))  G On the other Alphaserver we've got it set up as (Still using Multinet): K Printer queue PQ_ARD_3_HP5SI, idle, on SUN017::NLP44:"146.232.128.75/9100",: mounted form L001 (stock=A4)L   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=L001 (stock=A4)) /LIBRARY=ARSLIB Lowercase5   /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=MULTINET_STREAM_SYMBIONToL   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /RETAIN=ERROR /SEPARATE=(FLAG,RESET=(RESET))=          (IDENTIFIER=QUEUE_MANAGER,ACCESS=READ+SUBMIT+DELETE)g  I (BTW: The SUN in the node name is the acronym for Stellenbosch University  Network... ) Thanxd   Thys de Wete Admin Computer Services, IT  University of Stellenbosch Stellenbosch South Africa   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:08:47 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Using vfork/execvp with DCL commandsy3 Message-ID: <knAJvc5dDUbI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   e In article <FuC58.102209$%b.6348077@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, Ernest <wmozart5@yahoo.com> writes: M > How can execvp be used to run DCL commands (such as PIPE and DIR)?  I know rI > that it uses VAXC$PATH to search for commands, but how can one emulate yD > system()'s ability (which I can't use, since I must spawn without L > immediately waiting for the job to finish) to run DCL commands?  On Unix, K > I can accomplish running shell built-in commands by using something like aJ > "/bin/ksh -c echo hello", but I am not sure how this would be done with  > DCL.  =    You're tyring to start a DCL command from an image, right? B    Usually it's faster to determine what that DCL command does and@    call the appropriate system routine that does the same thing.  F    What DCL command are you trying to do?  You'ld be suprized how many4    of them closely map to some routine you can call.  E    If you must use a separate process actually running a DCL command,sF    the image name you need to use is sys$system:loginout and you must B    specify that the input device for the new process is a file or )    mailbox where you put the DCL command.o  F    sys$system:loginout will realize the process does not actually needD    to log in (the system already knows who you are), and will create     a process with DCL mapped in.  D    This is not compatable with exec functions, unless all you reallyC    need the DCL command to do is run some program which parses it'siC    own command line (most DCL commands do not, DCL parses for them,A)    most C programs do thier own parsing).y  >    To setup the input device, you'll need to call lib$spawn or    sys$creprc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:05:48 +0100a$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr> Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 stability1 Message-ID: <rIO58.176$am1.4291@news.cpqcorp.net>p   Hello   G I am running Vms 7.3 since  Juy 2001, and have not experienced a single  crash. Check at5 http://ftp.digital.com.au/pub/ecoinfo/ecoinfo/a73.htmE& that your level of patches is correct.   Regardsd   Grard  / "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> wrote in messagee6 news:MHI58.30608$yC.3871581@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net...I > I'm reasonably current and have most of the pieces of the update patch.dH > Some of the recent stuff put into the update patch didn't make my lastJ > change window and are scheduled for this weekend.  Don't forget, though,G > that for a crash to be escalated to Engineering means that it doesn't  matchdK > a known footprint - ie, these are *new* bugchecks, not any that are fixed  by > the current patch kits./ >t	 > Cheers,e >     .../Ed > --
 > Ed Wilts > Mounds View, MN, USA > mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org? > "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in message ( > news:3C56D8D9.5F1360BF@Mvb.Saic.Com... > > Ed Wilts wrote:  > > >oI > > > It may just be me, but I've been managing VMS systems for nearly 20 G > > > years and VMS 7.3 is ranking down there with the V4.0 release foruG > > > stability.  In the less than 1 month that I've been running it ineE > > > production on my biggest Alphas (naturally the test and smaller-C > > > systems all went smoothly), I've had 2 bugchecks escalated toWL > > > Engineering, and one bugcheck go unexplained.  Each of the 3 bugchecksL > > > - all with different bugcheck codes - have been on a different node in$ > > > the all-Alpha all-7.3 cluster. > > >dE > > > Has anyone else been stricken by the crashes like we have?  Ours* > > > cluster isn't really that unusual... > >IJ > > When you installed it, did you also install all current patches?  Make6 > > sure you have installed VMS73_UPDATE, available at > > ftp.support.compaq.com.K > >sK > > I had some bugchecks with my first V7.3 system, but after applying someaH > > patches (all included in the one given above) all of my V7.3 systems > > have been rock solid.y > >l > > Mark Berrymanh >o >x   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:15:19 +0000t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>a Subject: Re: VMS 7.3 stability8 Message-ID: <9ghf5u06hd9chi745s9pb0b34n05eieah3@4ax.com>  B On 29 Jan 2002 14:16:03 -0800, ewilts@ewilts.org (Ed Wilts) wrote:  D >It may just be me, but I've been managing VMS systems for nearly 20B >years and VMS 7.3 is ranking down there with the V4.0 release for  E After hearing of all the changes under the hood for VMS 7.3 at LondoneE VMS technical days I suggested that it should really have been called E VMS 8.0. One member of VMS engineering (I won't name) tended to agree A but said they desperately wanted to avoid jumping a major version  number.e  F 7.3 is not just an incremental update to 7.2 as the numbering implies.: Hence the teething problems. At least that's how I see it.  B >stability.  In the less than 1 month that I've been running it in@ >production on my biggest Alphas (naturally the test and smaller> >systems all went smoothly), I've had 2 bugchecks escalated toG >Engineering, and one bugcheck go unexplained.  Each of the 3 bugchecks G >- all with different bugcheck codes - have been on a different node int >the all-Alpha all-7.3 cluster.  > @ >Has anyone else been stricken by the crashes like we have?  Our% >cluster isn't really that unusual...  >e >Thanks,
 >   .../Ed >mailto:ewilts@ewilts.orgo   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:37:27 -0500.- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>  Subject: VMS Certification0 Message-ID: <vjV58.3506$X2.48673@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  J Last night I wrote and passed the VMS System Administration exam using oneH of the vouchers that were given out during CETS2001. Now to complete theF System Administration Certification I need a networking exam. The examK Compaq recommends (CompTIA Network +) would cost $132US. Currently I do notmJ see $132US worth of value in getting the System Administration CertificateI but I am wondering if anyone else out there has bothered to get certifiede' and if they think the cost is worth it?u       --J A study has shown that sheep can remember faces for up to 2 years, I guess- that means I'm dumber than the average sheep.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:57:48 -0500l  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>H Subject: Re: VMS721_SYS-V1100: Caution do not apply with Pathworks V6.0D6 Message-ID: <1020130084439.15476A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  * On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Brass Christof wrote:   > Carl Karcher wrote:D > > H > > After applying patch VMS721_SYS-V1100 (to an Alphaserver 1200 5/533)K > > and rebooting, PWRK$LMSRV.EXE (from Pathworks V6.0D) crashed the systemv	 > > with:  > > D > >   "INVSECURESTATE, Invalid state detected by SECURITY subsystem" > > * > > shortly after starting up. The PC was: > > 0 > >         NSA$DEREFERENCE_RIGHTS_CHAIN_C+0008C > > / > > This was repeatable (same thing next time).  > > L > > After renaming the SECURITY.EXE_OLD and SECURITY_MON.EXE_OLD to *.EXE inJ > > SYS$LOADABLE_IMAGES and rebooting the crash no longer occurred. We hadL > > previously installed VMS721_SYS-V1000 so the problem was introduced withF > > V11 of this patch. The problem has been reported to CSC (Pathworks$ > > handed it off to the VMS group). > > H > > VMS721_SYS-V1100 was one of 14 patches I applied in a single PRODUCTF > > INSTALL session followed by a single reboot. I've always done thisJ > > (except for one patch that said not too) and never had a problem. ThisJ > > time it was an example of the risks of applying more than one patch atL > > the same time. In this case the bugcheck code pretty much pointed to theK > > SECURITY*.EXE images (and a search on DSNlink confirmed it) so recoveryeH > > was fairly simple. Next time I may not be so lucky (but I had a good > > backup). > A > While I as a hobbyist user am surely not in a position to teach> > you A > anything I would like to ask you whether you carefully read thes > notes - > that are associated with the ECO mentioned?a > > > I spent several hours in reading ECO information to find out > what a= > occasionally crashes my DECwindows X11 display server and It > found > > the following note in the above mentioned ECO's readme file: > L > **************************************************************************  > *                             . > Note                                      * J > *                                                                        > *e: > * After installing the VMS721_SYS-V1100  ECO kit you may > experience the  *  > * following system9 > crash:                                                *eJ > *                                                                        > * 8 > *   INVSECURESTATE, Invalid state detected by SECURITY > subsystem.        * J > *                                                                        > * 7 > * In order to avoid this crash, before installing thel > VMS721_SYS-V1100   *9 > * ECO kit, contact your services representative for newd > SECURITY.EXE and *7 > * SECURITY_MON.EXE images  Then, after installing ther > VMS721_SYS-V1100   *: > * ECO kit, but before rebooting the system, copy the new > SECURITY images * @ > * to the SYS$COMMON:[SYS$LDR]  directory.  You can then reboot
 > your      *  > * H > system.                                                                > * J > *                                                                        > *     N > **************************************************************************   > A > From my understanding this seems pretty much an explanation for, > your  ; > observation. Did you proceed as recommended in that note?m  @ I doubt very much that Carl proceeded as recommened because this= note was *not* added to the ECO description until *after* and @ probably as a direct result of his original post.  ;-)  Or maybeD it was a result of Carl (and me and several other people) submitting% problem reports about the same thing.e  A In any case, this note appeared just a few days ago.  The ECO wasi1 originally released in November without the note.d  = I experienced the problem in NFSACP in TCPWare, and last weeki; received a new version of SECURITY.EXE and SECURITY_MON.EXEr? that seems to have fixed the problem.  It isn't an ECO kit yet;v@ I reported the problem to Process Software, who determined it to= be in SECURITY.EXE, and passed it off to Compaq, who sent thew@ new .EXE's back to Process who then sent them to me.  I think if> you report the problem directly to Compaq, you can get the newB images directly from them.  I expect it will be a few weeks before< they get included in a new ECO kit, due to testing, reviews, packaging and sanity-checking.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------   Date: 30 JAN 2002 14:35:46 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)H Subject: Re: VMS721_SYS-V1100: Caution do not apply with Pathworks V6.0D6 Message-ID: <30JAN02.14354665@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  ? In a previous article, Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net> wrote:c  F ->While I as a hobbyist user am surely not in a position to teach you A ->anything I would like to ask you whether you carefully read thef3 ->notes that are associated with the ECO mentioned?  ->...t  ->*                              ->Note o ->*kI ->* After installing the VMS721_SYS-V1100  ECO kit you may experience thesJ ->* following system crash:                                                ->*sC ->*   INVSECURESTATE, Invalid state detected by SECURITY subsystem.i  D That note was added in an update to the patch *AFTER* I reported the< problem. I reported it on 1/19, the update came out on 1/24:  A   TITLE: OpenVMS VMS721_SYS-V1100 Alpha V7.2-1 System ECO Summarye  !   New Kit Date:       31-OCT-2001n!   Modification Date:  24-OCT-2001dE   Modification Type:  Documentation:Note added regarding system crasha  D CSC does have updated security*.exe images that correct the problem.  G -- Carl Karcher, Waisman Computing Services, Waisman Center, UW-Madisone2 --                      karcher@waisman.wisc.edu     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:28:39 +0100-' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net> H Subject: Re: VMS721_SYS-V1100: Caution do not apply with Pathworks V6.0D( Message-ID: <3C581127.276FBCFA@spam.net>   John Santos wrote:  B > I doubt very much that Carl proceeded as recommened because this? > note was *not* added to the ECO description until *after* andoB > probably as a direct result of his original post.  ;-)  Or maybeF > it was a result of Carl (and me and several other people) submitting' > problem reports about the same thing.a  
 Okay then.  dC > In any case, this note appeared just a few days ago.  The ECO was03 > originally released in November without the note.  > ? > I experienced the problem in NFSACP in TCPWare, and last weeka= > received a new version of SECURITY.EXE and SECURITY_MON.EXE$A > that seems to have fixed the problem.  It isn't an ECO kit yet;oB > I reported the problem to Process Software, who determined it to? > be in SECURITY.EXE, and passed it off to Compaq, who sent the B > new .EXE's back to Process who then sent them to me.  I think if@ > you report the problem directly to Compaq, you can get the newD > images directly from them.  I expect it will be a few weeks before> > they get included in a new ECO kit, due to testing, reviews,  > packaging and sanity-checking.  A Thanks. As I mentioned I didn't expect to tell something new but   at least I learned something!d   > --
 > John Santos  > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539   --  6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:17:17 +0000d% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>-? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) 8 Message-ID: <p5ef5usm0iri5jtvrudetgt249t5gu6g65@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:19:27 +0100, John McLean & <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:   >h >6 >Bill Todd wrote:n >....  >> aN >> There's also the question of whether anyone cares enough about changing theK >> way Compaq handles VMS to stand up and fight to change it.  And now morehN >> than ever it looks as if that would require taking action to try to get rid >> of current management.W > I >What is their obligation to answer questions in the stockholders meetinge@ >?  Are they able to defer an answer (eg. "We'll answer that oneD >off-line") or can they decide that a question is inaproppriate (eg.. >"Please, we are discussing the merger here"). >aD >In order words, can they duck and weave around the more interestingH >questions about INCOME sources compared to REVENUE sources, about theirI >failure to advertise anything but PCS, about their future plans for VMS 5 >etc, etc ?)  @ Curly stated several times that they had a lawyer on stage. OnceD saying "You'll notice the only person standing is the lawyer. No I'dA better not go there..." Another occasion saying "I'm getting handrC waving from the lawyer so I'd better shut up." On a couple of other D occasions Curly himself asked other execs not to answer a particular- question or to sidestep bits of the question.A   >  >John McLean   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:21:21 +0000O% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)=8 Message-ID: <3gef5ukpv6i0h8of31lg15hbsb7udvnv9n@4ax.com>  D On 29 Jan 2002 21:55:14 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:    O >The best evidence we have of that [long term platform support] is today we areFO >still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systems purchased well overIP >10 years ago.  We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS for AlphaL >users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance >releases will continue.  A But interestingly the current 7,3 SPD says 7.3-1 will be the last B version to support some of the earlier Alpha systems. So already aF plan exists to retire Alphas one by one. A large number of VAX systemsA are also being removed from support in the latest VAX releases as. well.b  / >	"new functionality ... at least through 2006"L  D Yes but what Alpha systems will still be supported by a 2006 release* if we're already retiring systems in 2002.   >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:54:11 -0500s% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>h? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)a+ Message-ID: <3C57DEE1.41E6B86@videotron.ca>,   Rob Young wrote:7 >         "new functionality ... at least through 2006"  > % >                                 Robp    K And why do you refuse to admit that this message might mean "VMS may becomeh" mature on Alpha as soon as 2006" ?  L At this point in time, shouldn't the message be a consistent "we'll continueG to support and improve VMS in alpha as long as deman justifies it" ????   N Compaq is way too optimistic if it thinks that Intel will deliver IA64 on timeN and that sufficient number of VMS customers will have migrated to IA64 2 years> after 2004 to warrant stopping new functionality on Alpha-VMS.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:02:30 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) + Message-ID: <a38ncm$k6k$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>c  ` In article <3gef5ukpv6i0h8of31lg15hbsb7udvnv9n@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:E >On 29 Jan 2002 21:55:14 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)  >wrote:d >. > P >>The best evidence we have of that [long term platform support] is today we areP >>still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systems purchased well overQ >>10 years ago.  We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS for AlphanM >>users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenancec >>releases will continue.- >-B >But interestingly the current 7,3 SPD says 7.3-1 will be the lastC >version to support some of the earlier Alpha systems. So already aOG >plan exists to retire Alphas one by one. A large number of VAX systemseB >are also being removed from support in the latest VAX releases as >well. >g  H True, the Dec 2000 Models 300/500 and Tadpole ALPHAbook 1 are slated for- desupport with V7.3-1 according to the SPD onsM (http://www.compaq.com/info/SP2501/sp2501pf.pdf) - though as far as I can see.O these systems aren't actually listed in the section detailing all Alpha systemsd supported by VMS 7.3.s    O Could be worse - they dropped support for all the turbochannel systems on Tru64  as I recall.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix teamleaderc CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:01:40 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) , Message-ID: <3C57EEAE.559DB6B1@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:mJ > True, the Dec 2000 Models 300/500 and Tadpole ALPHAbook 1 are slated for/ > desupport with V7.3-1 according to the SPD on   M Is it just no longer "supported" or have they made changes known to break VMSe on those machines ?n   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 07:24:38 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)l3 Message-ID: <uJM3IetAiUPg@eisner.encompasserve.org>g  ` In article <3gef5ukpv6i0h8of31lg15hbsb7udvnv9n@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:  C > But interestingly the current 7,3 SPD says 7.3-1 will be the lastdD > version to support some of the earlier Alpha systems. So already aH > plan exists to retire Alphas one by one. A large number of VAX systemsC > are also being removed from support in the latest VAX releases as  > well.l  H Is anyone aware of a recent release _not_working_ on such an early VAX ?  G How many people were actually paying for support on such an early VAX ?fK "Support" only applies to those who pay for it.  Hobbyists get no support. oF In the VMS world, support also means they have tested on that hardwareH before shipping.  Testing on the universe of past systems gets expensiveI (do I hear an echo in here of the words "affordable VMS").  How much werejJ they charging to support VMS V6 on the 11/780 ?  How many paid that rate ?  G So far as I know, the VMS policy has been quite different from that fortB Tru64 Unix, where they actually removed the machine-specific code.   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 30 Jan 02 10:59:22 GMTf From: jmfbahciv@aol.coml? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) + Message-ID: <a38rcr$95d$5@bob.news.rcn.net>e  , In article <3C573347.423382F0@videotron.ca>,)    JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:d >Bob Ceculski wrote:, >> are you saying it is time to abandon vms? > G >It is time to *look* at alternatives to see what is available and whateD >features are matched and what features are not available elsewhere 	 (featureseI >that you make use of).  Compaq has been giving plenty of hints that VMS h woulduH >not be there forever. One such hint is that VMS *may* become mature on  Alphaa >as soon as 2006.i  < That's a spin that was used 15?17 years ago when DEC started9 its path to one OS suicide.  There is no such thing as a r= mature operating system.  If it isn't continuously "evolving" = to adjust to new hardware, new uses, and new features, it's ai dead OS.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.t   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 30 Jan 02 11:03:40 GMTa From: jmfbahciv@aol.com7? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)c+ Message-ID: <a38rkt$95d$6@bob.news.rcn.net>$  8 In article <3gef5ukpv6i0h8of31lg15hbsb7udvnv9n@4ax.com>,)    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: E >On 29 Jan 2002 21:55:14 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e >wrote:A >n >rJ >>The best evidence we have of that [long term platform support] is today  we areL >>still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systems purchased well  overL >>10 years ago.  We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS for  Alpha B >>users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based  maintenance- >>releases will continue.e >cB >But interestingly the current 7,3 SPD says 7.3-1 will be the lastC >version to support some of the earlier Alpha systems. So already aeG >plan exists to retire Alphas one by one. A large number of VAX systems:B >are also being removed from support in the latest VAX releases as >well. >10 >>	"new functionality ... at least through 2006" >0E >Yes but what Alpha systems will still be supported by a 2006 releasef+ >if we're already retiring systems in 2002.p  C I don't know anything about the various flavors of Alpha.  However, ? "retiring" old gear is not an unusual activity for an operatingTA system business.  In the old days, it just meant that testing and = new functionality was not going to be funded nor will the newCC stuff be supported on old gear.  This is normal for OS development.t@ TOPS-10 "retired" older PDP-10s, namely the KA-10 and the KI-10.. The same thing happened with old peripherals.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.h   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 08:16:52 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)m? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)S3 Message-ID: <kSGJFC3ObEWN@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  s In article <AHK58.2858$dZ1.10204@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:TQpONzEwOxlM@eisner.encompasserve.org...n8 >> In article <3C573347.423382F0@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei  > <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: >>L >> > One such hint is that VMS *may* become mature on Alpha as soon as 2006. >> >> >> That is a distortion... > L > Distortion? So what??? Remember the old trade press slogan, "never let the( > facts get in the way of a good story." >    	Yep.   L > Unless CPQ decides to do another spin of EV7 beyond the planned EV79, 2006M > would seem about right for the Alpha end game. EV79 is supposed to come outrM > in 2004, figure it's good for about two years in the CMOS9 incarnation. AndoE > for government customers, it'll be good for a lot longer than that.v > D > Assuming that post-Madison IPF processors offer decent performanceK > (Probability Factor: 0.who knows?) and that Compaq proves Gartner (dare IoL > say it???) wrong by delivering VMS-on-IPF as promised, the maturity of VMSD > on Alpha shouldn't be much of a factor. As always, time will tell. >  >   @ 	I can handle all that.  But the distortion revolves around VMS, 	not Alpha:   I > One such hint is that VMS *may* become mature on Alpha as soon as 2006.       !         That is a distortion...      G         Compaq's rebuttal to Gartner reads as so:                      s   0 http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htm            P The best evidence we have of that [long term platform support] is today we are  P still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systems purchased well over  O 10 years ago.  We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS for AlphaiP users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based maintenance      releases will continue.I  5         "new functionality ... at least through 2006"    ---nC 	New VMS functionality on Alpha.  And if VMS is VMS, they will poll ; 	customers on what they want... big customer(s) want VMS on C 	Alpha features, surely they keep big customer(s) happy?  Of course D 	as Fred points out, some will be IPF specific (power down) so won't 	show on Alpha... etc.     				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:12:38 +0000u% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> ? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)s8 Message-ID: <ohvf5uopq7oe4gq5hu4vplbub66bq6tgpl@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 30 Jan 02 10:59:22 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:     >m= >That's a spin that was used 15?17 years ago when DEC started : >its path to one OS suicide.  There is no such thing as a > >mature operating system.  If it isn't continuously "evolving"> >to adjust to new hardware, new uses, and new features, it's a	 >dead OS.e  C The current roadmaps show VMS continuing to be developed on the newIA Intel Itanium 64 bit chip after the end of alpha development. One D problem with this is that Intel have admired they have a backup planF in case this new architecture fails. Instead they will support the AMDE Hammer 64 bit extensions to the IA32 architecture in the follow-on to ! the Pentium codenamed "Prescott".r  D Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedE beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned ifu< Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the marketplace.   >n >/BAHi > ( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:17:11 +0000m% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>:? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)s8 Message-ID: <4rvf5us8p8kl5b5me8519pnihcve7ts23v@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 30 Jan 02 11:03:40 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:     >hD >I don't know anything about the various flavors of Alpha.  However,@ >"retiring" old gear is not an unusual activity for an operatingB >system business.  In the old days, it just meant that testing and> >new functionality was not going to be funded nor will the newD >stuff be supported on old gear.  This is normal for OS development.A >TOPS-10 "retired" older PDP-10s, namely the KA-10 and the KI-10. / >The same thing happened with old peripherals. E  B Yes but VMS engineering has gone to unusual lengths to continue toC support later versions of the O/S on ancient hardware. At a time of D uncertainty for the future of VMS I wouldn't decide *now* was a goodE time to start reducing the interval to retirement even though I agree:E with your point in general. Certainly TOPS-20 release 7 (1989?) stillg- supported the DECSYSTEM-2040 released in 1976y   >  >/BAHt > ( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:48:14 -0500@% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>-? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)s, Message-ID: <3C5807A2.9FA642A5@videotron.ca>   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:E > I don't know anything about the various flavors of Alpha.  However,>A > "retiring" old gear is not an unusual activity for an operatings > system business. h    L However, the timing of this is such that it makes customers more suspicious.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:47:14 -0500f* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>? Subject: RE: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)d- Message-ID: <0033000049770036000002L062*@MHS>d  ; =0AAnd it'll be the **big customers** who have the GS boxesu: which are built on...what was the name of that chip again?   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 9:17 AMsB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET? Subject: RE: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)C    H In article <AHK58.2858$dZ1.10204@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. = Shannon"% <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: >C: > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:TQpONzEwOxlM@eisner.encompasserve.org...i8 >> In article <3C573347.423382F0@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei  > <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: >>H >> > One such hint is that VMS *may* become mature on Alpha as soon as = 2006.m >> >> >> That is a distortion... >nH > Distortion? So what??? Remember the old trade press slogan, "never le= t ther( > facts get in the way of a good story." >-  	      Yep.-  H > Unless CPQ decides to do another spin of EV7 beyond the planned EV79,=  2006tH > would seem about right for the Alpha end game. EV79 is supposed to co= me outH > in 2004, figure it's good for about two years in the CMOS9 incarnatio= n. AndE > for government customers, it'll be good for a lot longer than that.  >dD > Assuming that post-Madison IPF processors offer decent performanceH > (Probability Factor: 0.who knows?) and that Compaq proves Gartner (da= re IH > say it???) wrong by delivering VMS-on-IPF as promised, the maturity o= f VMSkD > on Alpha shouldn't be much of a factor. As always, time will tell. >e >o  D      I can handle all that.  But the distortion revolves around VMS,      not Alpha:   H > One such hint is that VMS *may* become mature on Alpha as soon as 200= 6.             That is a distortion...e  1         Compaq's rebuttal to Gartner reads as so:d  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/15010212.htmi  H The best evidence we have of that [long term platform support] is today=  we are H still providing support for Digital PDP-11 and VAX systems purchased we= ll overtH 10 years ago.  We will be doing new functionality releases of OpenVMS f= or AlphaH users at least through 2006. Beyond that timeframe, Alpha-based mainten= ance releases will continue.n  5         "new functionality ... at least through 2006"r   ---pH      New VMS functionality on Alpha.  And if VMS is VMS, they will poll=  ?      customers on what they want... big customer(s) want VMS onAH      Alpha features, surely they keep big customer(s) happy?  Of course=  H      as Fred points out, some will be IPF specific (power down) so won'= tj      show on Alpha... etc.                         Rob=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:53:02 -05000* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>? Subject: RE: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)g- Message-ID: <0033000049771196000002L062*@MHS>l  H =0AThat sounds more like something a company from Washington State once=  F did to one of their "applications" if it was run with something called	 DR-DOS...e   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETc) Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 7:59 AM,B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET? Subject: RE: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)o     david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:eH > True, the Dec 2000 Models 300/500 and Tadpole ALPHAbook 1 are slated = for / > desupport with V7.3-1 according to the SPD onL  H Is it just no longer "supported" or have they made changes known to bre= ak VMS on those machines ?=   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:05:08 +0100 (MET),9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)m; Message-ID: <01KDORYUEVI08ZJH7N@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>   F > Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedG > beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned ifm> > Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the > marketplace.  G Several folks have pointed out that there is little point in believing  F Compaq "commitments" with regard to the future of VMS, ALPHA etc.  So I why do so now and assume that the above is cast in stone?  We've been in iH for a lot of surprises lately, so we shouldn't be surprised at a change 6 in plans if things turn out differently than expected.  D Sure, in one case it's pro VMS and in the other it's anti VMS.  But F there have been pro VMS changes in the past, such as when DEC stopped C pushing people to unix, then stopped touting NT as the goal of the e migration etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Jan 2002 09:16:36 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)e? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...).3 Message-ID: <b1Kv4YF6V3Sy@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  T In article <3C5807A2.9FA642A5@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:F >> I don't know anything about the various flavors of Alpha.  However,B >> "retiring" old gear is not an unusual activity for an operating >> system business.  >  > N > However, the timing of this is such that it makes customers more suspicious.  = 	"Customers" isn't the operative word.  How about Shamans or o> 	Psychics and all those that examine entrails of dead animals.   				Roba   ------------------------------  ! Date: Wed, 30 Jan 02 14:04:17 GMTr From: jmfbahciv@aol.comV? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)n+ Message-ID: <a3967i$ood$1@bob.news.rcn.net>r  8 In article <4rvf5us8p8kl5b5me8519pnihcve7ts23v@4ax.com>,)    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote:r9 >On Wed, 30 Jan 02 11:03:40 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >t >  >>E >>I don't know anything about the various flavors of Alpha.  However,tA >>"retiring" old gear is not an unusual activity for an operatingIC >>system business.  In the old days, it just meant that testing andn? >>new functionality was not going to be funded nor will the new0E >>stuff be supported on old gear.  This is normal for OS development.:B >>TOPS-10 "retired" older PDP-10s, namely the KA-10 and the KI-10.0 >>The same thing happened with old peripherals.  >aC >Yes but VMS engineering has gone to unusual lengths to continue too7 >support later versions of the O/S on ancient hardware.t  : That approach can get one into terrible technical support 9 problems.  Wang "supported" every software release it did-: and imploded because the activity was simply impossible to do.r   > .. At a time of.E >uncertainty for the future of VMS I wouldn't decide *now* was a goodeF >time to start reducing the interval to retirement even though I agreeF >with your point in general. Certainly TOPS-20 release 7 (1989?) still. >supported the DECSYSTEM-2040 released in 1976  D Nope.  It didn't _support_ it.  There's a difference between support= and working.  We did go out of our way not to break software. @ However, if we didn't have the hardware inhouse (or available so@ we could try to reproduced reported problems and testing) we did> not support it.  This was back in the times when support meant1 a contractual agreement to get the stuff working.   > I'm not sure that Release 7 would work on the 2040.  That was ? a Model A CPU which did not do extended addressing or sections.SA After DECnet, you couldn't boot without that extra address space.e   /BAH   >e >> >>/BAH >>) >>Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.  >r  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:56:46 +0100m1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>o? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)h5 Message-ID: <3C5833DE.5D3B55C8@swissonline.delete.ch>-   JF Mezei wrote:- > ! > david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:ML > > True, the Dec 2000 Models 300/500 and Tadpole ALPHAbook 1 are slated for1 > > desupport with V7.3-1 according to the SPD ons > O > Is it just no longer "supported" or have they made changes known to break VMSo > on those machines ?C  E It might be something similar to the termination of MicroVax II.  ThetH problem is really one of trying to handle the smallest configuration forD VMS all the way up to the largest, and handling the various hardware that attaches to it.  H For example, AUTOGEN has to allocate memory to various system activitiesF and that allocation can get difficult if there are only a (relatively)F few megabytes of memory to play with.  Some of the small systems (withE little memory and small disks) would have serious trouble if you used  TPU on a very large file.f  D At the hardware level, the older hardware has been made redundant byG newer stuff and I guess it is just not worth the effort to check it alluH out for so few users.  Anyone still using an RM06 disk drive, or even an RA81 ???  E So it's very unlikely to be deliberate breakages.  Much more likely aa@ result of growth in the size and capabilities of VMS and all the hardware around it.u     John McLeanb   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:03:48 +0100n1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>b? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)l5 Message-ID: <3C583584.9EDE7283@swissonline.delete.ch>r   Alan Greig wrote:i >  >... > E > The current roadmaps show VMS continuing to be developed on the new C > Intel Itanium 64 bit chip after the end of alpha development. OnetF > problem with this is that Intel have admired they have a backup planH > in case this new architecture fails. Instead they will support the AMDG > Hammer 64 bit extensions to the IA32 architecture in the follow-on toS# > the Pentium codenamed "Prescott".A > F > Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedG > beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned ift> > Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the > marketplace.  H Don't forget that the current work on VMS is doing a lot to minimize theE hardware dependencies (or at least to gather them).  This - as I saidtE weeks ago - may be the best thing about the whole exercise because itsF will simplify the porting of VMS ...to AMD, to Power4 (?) from IBM, in fact to any processor.  D A "re-alignment" to Mr Palmer's Amazing Processing Machine or to theG "Itanic lifeboat" processor which speaks the same language might not be  bad news at all.     John McLeane   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:06:36 +0100l1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>n? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)m5 Message-ID: <3C58362C.EFF421AA@swissonline.delete.ch>a   Phillip Helbig wrote:k > H > > Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedI > > beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned ift@ > > Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the > > marketplace. > H > Several folks have pointed out that there is little point in believingG > Compaq "commitments" with regard to the future of VMS, ALPHA etc.  SoiJ > why do so now and assume that the above is cast in stone?  We've been inI > for a lot of surprises lately, so we shouldn't be surprised at a change 8 > in plans if things turn out differently than expected. > E > Sure, in one case it's pro VMS and in the other it's anti VMS.  ButnG > there have been pro VMS changes in the past, such as when DEC stopped.D > pushing people to unix, then stopped touting NT as the goal of the > migration etc.    * You can remember these pro-VMS changes ???  $ Boy, are you showing your age !  ;-)     John McLeanu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:22:46 GMTi* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)PC Message-ID: <WRW58.210468$TC1.14076655@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C583584.9EDE7283@swissonline.delete.ch...t >p >  > Alan Greig wrote:s > >  > >... > >oG > > The current roadmaps show VMS continuing to be developed on the newnE > > Intel Itanium 64 bit chip after the end of alpha development. One H > > problem with this is that Intel have admired they have a backup planJ > > in case this new architecture fails. Instead they will support the AMDI > > Hammer 64 bit extensions to the IA32 architecture in the follow-on tol% > > the Pentium codenamed "Prescott".n > > H > > Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedI > > beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned ife@ > > Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the > > marketplace. >aJ > Don't forget that the current work on VMS is doing a lot to minimize theG > hardware dependencies (or at least to gather them).  This - as I saidiG > weeks ago - may be the best thing about the whole exercise because itpH > will simplify the porting of VMS ...to AMD, to Power4 (?) from IBM, in > fact to any processor.  G The question really is whether VMS will still be considered worth doingnD *anything* with by whoever owns it should such a second migration beJ required.  Compaq's own numbers suggest that the Alphacide cut deeply intoK Alpha (including VMS) Q3 sales and that the merger discussion certainly did I nothing to help them out of their already-depressed state (Tru64 - though J not VMS - rebounded strongly in Q4, but only to previous levels - and thatJ seems to have been due to a small number of large sales likely set up some
 time ago).  I Couple depressed sales with the expressed intent of both Compaq and HP to I phase out everything but Windows and Linux (and perhaps keep HP/UX aroundtI for a while, in HP's case) and regardless of how the merger turns out VMScI looks more and more like toast.  Can the decreasing attractiveness of thesE new Itanic home it hasn't yet even moved into do anything but furtherPG discourage people from committing to it?  One really needs rose-coloredd0 glasses to consider this a positive development.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:22:22 +0000 . From: Dr Robin Bignall <docrobin@red.sylvania>D Subject: Re: Younger recruits versus experienced veterans  ( was The8 Message-ID: <0r8g5uctka4ac1arrikjrbnfuhioj2j9a6@4ax.com>  @ On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 01:12:47 GMT, phil@dawks.demon.co.uk (dawks) wrote:  F >On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:52:03 GMT, "Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> >wrote:  >W >>= >>"Dr Robin Bignall" <docrobin@red.sylvania> wrote in messagen4 >>news:gnd25ug0p1u5tivjk15305vt6ap6v3ucpa@4ax.com...& >>[...]["DOes "scone" rhyme wtih "cone >>7 >>...... The pronunciation depends on which part of the J >>> country you are in and how genteel you can fool yourself into thinking >>> the other pronunciation is.u >>> J >>> In the Midlands, working people from backgrounds similar to those AlanE >>> quoted rhymed them with cones when buying them from the baker. InpE >>> tea-shops which considered themselves posh (had doileys, cups andsH >>> saucers instead of mugs, and fabric napkins) they were called skons.I >>> We always thought it was the fault of affected southerners from south I >>> of the river Trent. Events of the past 50 years have proved us right:oD >>> everything is the fault of those southerners, but that's another
 >>> story. >>E >>There must be more to this. We are told that "skon" is the ScottishrM >>pronunciation for the little Scottish cake; so where did the "cone" version-L >>come from? I still think it's a "spelling pronunciation" by people who had+ >>seen the word but never been to Scotland.? >>F >i suspect that the majority of South Yorkshire miners didn't vacationF >in Scotland so it's hardly surprising that it's pronounced the way itD >was spelt. Same where i grew up (South Wales), a scone was what you- >ate at home, a skon was ate at a restaurant.  >eD Yes. As to pronunciation, without any special usage to the contrary,D an 'e' at the end of a word *often* makes a preceding vowel long. (I@ didn't say 'always'.) Hence dom/dome, mad/made, rap/rape but notB don/done. I would expect 'scone' to be pronounced with a long 'o', lacking other information.  < >>Alan Jones [whom Robin may have mistaken for someone else] >u >Batman, is that you?w > 
 No, it's me.    E (Sorry Alan, I was replying to Brian who quoted you. Got my >>>s in aR muddle.)   --   wrmst rgrds " RB...(docrobinUNSPAM@ntlworld.com)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.058 ************************