0 INFO-VAX	Thu, 31 Jan 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 60      Contents:& Re: "C" written os's spell "disaster"!& Re: "C" written os's spell "disaster"!  Re: Adding fonts to a VMS system  Re: Adding fonts to a VMS system  Re: Adding fonts to a VMS system RE: BA350-SA & RZ28M-VW  RE: BA350-SA & RZ28M-VW D Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for MembershipD Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership/ Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse! / Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!  Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Carly's O/S Commitment Re: Compaq financial conference 5 Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq  COPY, BACKUP, /FTP etc etc Re: COPY, BACKUP, /FTP etc etc Re: COPY, BACKUP, /FTP etc etc" RE: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris?" Re: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris? Re: CSWS: POST Problem' Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space ' Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space ' Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space . Re: C|Net - Itanium to take on Alpha influence DEC 3800 power-up error code% Re: DEC ALPHA ES40 Equipment For Sale P Re: DECW$SERVER_0 dies periodically; X11 colour wheel program blackouts the  scr Default terminal printer in CDE  emacs21 almost working?  RE: emacs21 almost working?  RE: emacs21 almost working?  RE: emacs21 almost working?  RE: emacs21 almost working?  EU Gives CPQ Acquisition a Pass  EU to appprove HP-Compaq+ Re: Export Monitor Data to CSV file, Excel?  Re: Is OpenVMS e-store gone? Re: Is OpenVMS e-store gone?' Itanium to be "Alpha Inside " says cNet + Re: Itanium to be "Alpha Inside " says cNet  Re: mount problems on cluster  Re: mount problems on cluster C Re: OpenVMS efficiency with running the same process multiple times L Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)L RE: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)L Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)L Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)L RE: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)P Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory) memP Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory) mem( Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proof- Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys... - Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys... - Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys... - Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys... - Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys... - Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys... @ Re: Questions about setting up an Advanced Server  Member Server+ RE: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE + Re: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE + RE: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE  Re: STR$ELEMENT usage  Re: There must be a way ) Re: VAX emulator model and serial numbers 6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)6 Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)J Re: www.openvms.compaq.com and the link "OpenVMS Solutions Status	 Matrix"  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:02:27 -0800 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> / Subject: Re: "C" written os's spell "disaster"! + Message-ID: <3C5978A3.9CFB25D8@caltech.edu>    Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > N > There is nothing "wrong" with using the C string routine libraries - just asL > long as interfaces that are not "trusted" make sure that they do the rightI > thing when storing and copying strings.  That can be as simple as using ? > strncpy (if truncation is OK), or checking the string length.   / Aren't there cases though where trying to check - the string length on a null terminated string / is itself an illegal action?  Consider a 32 bit - machine which passes a pointer to a string at 7 hex FFFFFFFE.  After checking two bytes what happens??? 6 Similarly, if parts of memory are reserved for special/ tasks (mapped to devices, reserved for the OS), 3 say 20000000 - 20001000, and the user program calls 0 a system routine with an address of 1FFFFFFF and8 such a string is passed to a priv'd routine might it not3 grab bits out of the reserved area and return them?   < Seems a little easier to handle this if the string is passed9 with start/end addresses (or start + lenght = same thing) ; and the priv'd routine can look up in the appropriate table 9 whether or not the caller is allowed to access everything C in between _without_ having to actually read every byte in between.   A I guess the two cases I cite are with respect to absolute address > space though - and code that's allowed to touch that should be1 maintained by people who know what they're doing.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:25:55 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> / Subject: Re: "C" written os's spell "disaster"! 1 Message-ID: <R9f68.276$am1.4883@news.cpqcorp.net>   L If its a mode-of-the-caller service, then you can only corrupt what the userJ can corrupt himself.  If it's an inner mode service, then the buffer needsL to be probed for read (or write) access before accessing the buffer.  If theL probe is done correctly, the worst that can happen is no worse than the user could do itself by hand.  K The reason that VMS system services require a length, is to make that probe L possible without too high an overhead.  But it *is* possible to do it with aI null terminated string *if* you really wanted to do it.  You just need to 6 probe for each byte before reading/testing/copying it.    @ David Mathog wrote in message <3C5978A3.9CFB25D8@caltech.edu>... >Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  >>L >> There is nothing "wrong" with using the C string routine libraries - just asG >> long as interfaces that are not "trusted" make sure that they do the  right J >> thing when storing and copying strings.  That can be as simple as using@ >> strncpy (if truncation is OK), or checking the string length. > 0 >Aren't there cases though where trying to check. >the string length on a null terminated string0 >is itself an illegal action?  Consider a 32 bit. >machine which passes a pointer to a string at8 >hex FFFFFFFE.  After checking two bytes what happens???7 >Similarly, if parts of memory are reserved for special 0 >tasks (mapped to devices, reserved for the OS),4 >say 20000000 - 20001000, and the user program calls1 >a system routine with an address of 1FFFFFFF and 9 >such a string is passed to a priv'd routine might it not 4 >grab bits out of the reserved area and return them? > = >Seems a little easier to handle this if the string is passed : >with start/end addresses (or start + lenght = same thing)< >and the priv'd routine can look up in the appropriate table: >whether or not the caller is allowed to access everythingD >in between _without_ having to actually read every byte in between. > B >I guess the two cases I cite are with respect to absolute address? >space though - and code that's allowed to touch that should be 2 >maintained by people who know what they're doing. > 	 >Regards,  > 
 >David Mathog  >mathog@caltech.edu    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:20:34 +0100 ' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net> ) Subject: Re: Adding fonts to a VMS system ( Message-ID: <3C592882.50F42F96@spam.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > L > Is there a cookbook on how to add fonts to a VMS workstation so that it is2 > available to applications such as DECwrite etc ? > O > I have fontographer on my mac and can convert fonts to various formats, and I M > know that there is a font compiler on VMS. Not sure about the exact formats I > and what is needed to make the font available to x-windows apps on VMS.   > I can't help much. I once added fonts by copying them into the
 directory = decw$syscommon:[sysfont.decw.user_75dpi] and by creating the  ? decw$font_directory.dat file within that directory. If you like  to get  = a copy of my file let me know. Though it's pretty simple: the  first line  : contains a number telling how many lines will follow. Each following line  ? contains two names: firstly the name of the font file, secondly 
 some sort 9 of alias name which let you refer in an abbreviated form. > The font files I had to install were already in the PCF format IIRC. ( I also detected that I adjusted the file% [...user_100dpi]decw$font_alias.dat.  9 Probably to use the 100dpi font also for 75dpi operation.    --  6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:47:49 -0500 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> ) Subject: Re: Adding fonts to a VMS system 1 Message-ID: <nuf68.280$am1.4891@news.cpqcorp.net>   
 Alpha or VAX?   H On VAX, you need the files in "BDF" format, which is the X11 font source? format.  These are compiled using the FONT compiler (type FONT)   J On Alpha, the fonts can be in BDF format, or SNF format, or any "standard"B X11 format.  You can compile BDF fonts into SNF format for startup performance.  E Once they are in the right format, place them into the directories as I described below, set your default directory there, and then do a FONT/DIR 2 command - which will create a font directory file.  K Because font naming was extended a while back, the only way to get the name G of a font would be open the file (it had used the filename).  So a font J "directory" file was invented that gives the font name to filename mapping! for all the fonts in a directory.   J Once done, restart the server (or if your really clever, set the font path ;-)    _Fred   ? Brass Christof wrote in message <3C592882.50F42F96@spam.net>...  >JF Mezei wrote: >>J >> Is there a cookbook on how to add fonts to a VMS workstation so that it is3 >> available to applications such as DECwrite etc ?  >>J >> I have fontographer on my mac and can convert fonts to various formats, and I F >> know that there is a font compiler on VMS. Not sure about the exact formats J >> and what is needed to make the font available to x-windows apps on VMS. > ? >I can't help much. I once added fonts by copying them into the 
 >directory= >decw$syscommon:[sysfont.decw.user_75dpi] and by creating the @ >decw$font_directory.dat file within that directory. If you like >to get > >a copy of my file let me know. Though it's pretty simple: the >first line ; >contains a number telling how many lines will follow. Each  >following line @ >contains two names: firstly the name of the font file, secondly
 >some sort: >of alias name which let you refer in an abbreviated form.? >The font files I had to install were already in the PCF format  >IIRC.) >I also detected that I adjusted the file % >[...user_100dpi]decw$font_alias.dat. : >Probably to use the 100dpi font also for 75dpi operation. >  >-- 7 >moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:52:07 -0500 % From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Re: Adding fonts to a VMS system , Message-ID: <3C59924A.ABBB1521@videotron.ca>   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:J > On VAX, you need the files in "BDF" format, which is the X11 font sourceA > format.  These are compiled using the FONT compiler (type FONT)   ! Thank you for the quick cookbook.     K > described below, set your default directory there, and then do a FONT/DIR 4 > command - which will create a font directory file.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:12:42 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>  Subject: RE: BA350-SA & RZ28M-VW- Message-ID: <0033000049972543000002L032*@MHS>    =0AI stand corrected.   ( He's right- Wide in narrow doesn't work.  . I must have been remembering what happens when* you stick a narrow device into a wide box.  2 I found a wide SBB drive (although not an RZ-type)0 and stuck it in the BA350-Kn and it wasn't seen-*  either from the console prompt or by VMS.  2 OTOH it didn't toast anything sticking it into the narrow slot...   :^)    WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ) Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:58 PM B To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET  Subject: RE: BA350-SA & RZ28M-VW    ( On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Dan O'Reilly wrote:  ) > Will a BA350-SA support RZ28M-VW disks?   F No, it doesn't work. The BA350 is a narrow shelf and the -VW is a wide7 disk. The other way around works though (-VA in BA356).    steve=   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:12:23 GMT  From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG   Subject: RE: BA350-SA & RZ28M-VW0 Message-ID: <00A08DD9.00A5BA3B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <0033000049972543000002L032*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: >=0AI stand corrected. > ) >He's right- Wide in narrow doesn't work.  > / >I must have been remembering what happens when + >you stick a narrow device into a wide box.  > 3 >I found a wide SBB drive (although not an RZ-type) 1 >and stuck it in the BA350-Kn and it wasn't seen- + > either from the console prompt or by VMS.  > 3 >OTOH it didn't toast anything sticking it into the  >narrow slot...   7 Drive which will work in narrow or wide slots have N W  . on the id label below the SCSI "diamond" logo.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:57:20 +0100 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership ' Message-ID: <3C5906F0.DC412955@aaa.com>   # I also got the mail a few days ago.   & Now, why does it cost 79$ to become an+ "Encompass Individual Member" but 99$ to be . an "International Individual Member" ?????????  : What are the Int. members getting that others (could it be? US-memebers ????) don't get ? Or, may it just be that Encompass < is a US-only thing, where non-US'ers *may* get a seat if you pay a little extra ?  8 This is just as dumb as Compaq having a "e-store" that's9 US-only. Compaq should have no problem at all to send out : the things from there Swedish office and invoice me localy
 in Sweden.  	 <warning> : Yes, I know many US'ers don't care beeing "international", but that's another story... 
 </warning>   Jan-Erik Sderholm.  (Sweden)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:45:26 -0500 ; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> M Subject: Re: Be prepared, Encompass is using SBA to SPAM folks for Membership " Message-ID: <3c5990fe@news.si.com>  ; >What are the Int. members getting that others (could it bel >US-memebers ????) don't get ?  A It costs more to send paper mail to non-US countries.  There's annF administrative overhead that the extra $20 seeks to offset.  At least, that's what I'm told.R --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.combA Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.come= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:49:17 +1000 * From: "Patrick Keogh" <pkeogh@au1.ibm.com>8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!+ Message-ID: <a3bb03$e0c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>   J If I can be permitted to add my views on the "what sort of company is IBM" question...r  ; I was a customer of DEC for about a decade, then worked fort DEC/Digital/Compaq fromeK 1986-1998. I now work at IBM, and some of the things I have found out abouto" my new employer have surprised me.  K First, the strongest difference between the two companies is execution. IBMtE makes plans, Compaq makes plans, everybody makes plans. But IBM has auL ferocious ability to execute those plans. IBM is deliberate and patient. IBMI does what is says it will do. This is the first company I have worked fore, with this strength and constancy of purpose.  L Second, IBM is not about a services business supporting a hardware business,F or a UNIX company supporting a storage business or a software businessJ supporting a mainframe business .... every part of IBM is there because itJ has products that someone wants to buy, and that IBM can be #1 or #2 or #3L at selling. There is almost no religion in the company. We all know that AIXB is best, and that Linux is best, and that OS/390 is best, and thatB outsourcing is best and so on. What is best is whatever solves the# customer's problem and makes money.t  L Thirdly, to dispel the various inaccuracies around IBM research, please takeD the time to go to www.research.ibm.com IBM is the largest industrialH research organisation in the world, spending the most money, getting theL most patents, and the most direct revenue from intellectual capital. Period.I Disciplines cover everything from mathematics and pure physics to biotec,p& crypto, human interaction and similar.  L These views are, of course my own. They do not represent the opinions of IBM blah blah blah...t   Patrick Keogh, Canberra Australia   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:57:01 GMTh# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!0 Message-ID: <N2c68.8710$liz.8215@news2.bloor.is>  
 Well said.  K In the '80's it was a widely held belief that if Digital's engineering teamsI could have been fronted by IBM's sales/marketing team, Digital would have > been the largest computer company in the world in short order.      5 "Patrick Keogh" <pkeogh@au1.ibm.com> wrote in message % news:a3bb03$e0c$1@news.btv.ibm.com...pL > If I can be permitted to add my views on the "what sort of company is IBM"
 > question...e >s= > I was a customer of DEC for about a decade, then worked forc > DEC/Digital/Compaq fromEG > 1986-1998. I now work at IBM, and some of the things I have found out0 about $ > my new employer have surprised me. >VI > First, the strongest difference between the two companies is execution.t IBMdG > makes plans, Compaq makes plans, everybody makes plans. But IBM has asJ > ferocious ability to execute those plans. IBM is deliberate and patient. IBMfK > does what is says it will do. This is the first company I have worked forH. > with this strength and constancy of purpose. >RD > Second, IBM is not about a services business supporting a hardware	 business,rH > or a UNIX company supporting a storage business or a software businessL > supporting a mainframe business .... every part of IBM is there because itL > has products that someone wants to buy, and that IBM can be #1 or #2 or #3J > at selling. There is almost no religion in the company. We all know that AIX:D > is best, and that Linux is best, and that OS/390 is best, and thatD > outsourcing is best and so on. What is best is whatever solves the% > customer's problem and makes money.. > I > Thirdly, to dispel the various inaccuracies around IBM research, pleasef takeF > the time to go to www.research.ibm.com IBM is the largest industrialJ > research organisation in the world, spending the most money, getting theF > most patents, and the most direct revenue from intellectual capital. Period.aK > Disciplines cover everything from mathematics and pure physics to biotec,e( > crypto, human interaction and similar. >eJ > These views are, of course my own. They do not represent the opinions of IBMt > blah blah blah...s >j > Patrick Keogh, > Canberra Australia >t >t   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 06:24:00 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201310623.3238c5a9@posting.google.com>h  ] "Patrick Keogh" <pkeogh@au1.ibm.com> wrote in message news:<a3bb03$e0c$1@news.btv.ibm.com>...aL > If I can be permitted to add my views on the "what sort of company is IBM"
 > question...p > = > I was a customer of DEC for about a decade, then worked fora > DEC/Digital/Compaq fromeM > 1986-1998. I now work at IBM, and some of the things I have found out aboutt$ > my new employer have surprised me. > M > First, the strongest difference between the two companies is execution. IBMeG > makes plans, Compaq makes plans, everybody makes plans. But IBM has aiN > ferocious ability to execute those plans. IBM is deliberate and patient. IBMK > does what is says it will do. This is the first company I have worked forn. > with this strength and constancy of purpose. > N > Second, IBM is not about a services business supporting a hardware business,H > or a UNIX company supporting a storage business or a software businessL > supporting a mainframe business .... every part of IBM is there because itL > has products that someone wants to buy, and that IBM can be #1 or #2 or #3N > at selling. There is almost no religion in the company. We all know that AIXD > is best, and that Linux is best, and that OS/390 is best, and thatD > outsourcing is best and so on. What is best is whatever solves the% > customer's problem and makes money.c >  > Patrick Keogh, > Canberra Australia  L they may follow thru on their plans, but if they think aix/linux is superiorL to vms, then this confirms they are business savvy but not technology savvy!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:03:08 -0500o% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>a8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!, Message-ID: <3C596ABA.C8C3A617@videotron.ca>   Bob Ceculski wrote: N > they may follow thru on their plans, but if they think aix/linux is superiorN > to vms, then this confirms they are business savvy but not technology savvy!  N On the other hand, if your sales force is convinced that a product such as VMSN is going out, legacy, old, less performant than Windows etc, then that ensures  eventual failure of the product.  N It is only natural that IBM or SUN would succeed in convincing its sales forceM that its own products are the best. The failue is at Compaq who fails to gets)  its own sales force to push VMS.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:16:45 +0100 (MET)l9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> 8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!; Message-ID: <01KDQ8HSBBF08ZJH7N@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>m  G > If I can be permitted to add my views on the "what sort of company isi > IBM" question...    B I'm now reading Robert Heinlein's STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND.  :-)  I > First, the strongest difference between the two companies is execution.dI > IBM makes plans, Compaq makes plans, everybody makes plans. But IBM has?C > a ferocious ability to execute those plans. IBM is deliberate and  > patient. n   Waiting is.   $ > IBM does what is says it will do.    Mike cannot lie.  J > What is best is whatever solves the customer's problem and makes money.   G Reminds me of the story about a place in Singapore(?) where Compaq bid eF an NSK solution and IBM bid a VMS solution---and IBM got the contract.  I > Thirdly, to dispel the various inaccuracies around IBM research, pleasei@ > take the time to go to www.research.ibm.com IBM is the largestI > industrial research organisation in the world, spending the most money, I > getting the most patents, and the most direct revenue from intellectualnI > capital. Period. Disciplines cover everything from mathematics and pure4< > physics to biotec, crypto, human interaction and similar.   I There has been at least one Nobel-Prize winner who was awarded the prize a for work done while at IBM.   8 Shall we say that Curly does not "grok in fullness" yet?  E There is/was also a research division of Digital.  Leslie Lamport of tC LaTeX fame developed LaTeX there (though it's just one of his many  D accomplishments, but probably the best known).  As far as I know it G still exists.  Wait---just checked.  Yes, now Compaqtified, and a link wA to Lamport says that he no longer works there.  Anyone know what t happened to him?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:19:51 GMTt4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!= Message-ID: <H8e68.16330$%h1.6776338@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>o  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C596ABA.C8C3A617@videotron.ca... > Bob Ceculski wrote: G > > they may follow thru on their plans, but if they think aix/linux isr superiorI > > to vms, then this confirms they are business savvy but not technologyi savvy! > L > On the other hand, if your sales force is convinced that a product such as VMS-H > is going out, legacy, old, less performant than Windows etc, then that ensuresg" > eventual failure of the product. >nJ > It is only natural that IBM or SUN would succeed in convincing its sales forcehJ > that its own products are the best. The failue is at Compaq who fails to gets" > its own sales force to push VMS.  K C'est vrai, mon ami. And this is a long-standing problem at Compaq. Indeed, L NT-on-Alpha sales tanked (from 15-20 percent of aggregate Alpha shipments toG less than 2 percent) in the period immediately after the Compaq-tion of,E Digital. Why? Well, the Compaq Classic salesforce went around telling D customers that Alpha was no good, and that Wintel was the way to go.  ) Way to go, Compaq Sales Farce, er, Force.   I Re: Sun and IBM... Sun will likely continue with its usual breast-beatingoI and bloviation. IBM will continue to conduct itself in a professional andi5 businesslike manner, and will capitalize accordingly.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:56:06 -0500u( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!, Message-ID: <3C597726.4000907@tsoft-inc.com>   JF Mezei wrote:o   > Bob Ceculski wrote:M > N >>they may follow thru on their plans, but if they think aix/linux is superiorN >>to vms, then this confirms they are business savvy but not technology savvy! >> > P > On the other hand, if your sales force is convinced that a product such as VMSP > is going out, legacy, old, less performant than Windows etc, then that ensures" > eventual failure of the product. > P > It is only natural that IBM or SUN would succeed in convincing its sales forceO > that its own products are the best. The failue is at Compaq who fails to getse" > its own sales force to push VMS. >   F You've both completely missed the point the poster was trying to make.  I "What is best is whatever solves the customer's problem and makes money."f  F It's been said before that IBM services will select VMS when it's the F best fit for a customer.  Key points, "what's good for the customer",  and "what makes money".F  E So, they don't push customers onto windoz, which can cause problems. 0G And if they can make money from a product, they don't avoid it because p# of commitment to a (windoz) vision.o   Dave   -- p4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:46:55 +0100t1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>e8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!5 Message-ID: <3C59830F.123BEE5B@swissonline.delete.ch>y   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:a >  ....K > Re: Sun and IBM... Sun will likely continue with its usual breast-beating-K > and bloviation. IBM will continue to conduct itself in a professional andA7 > businesslike manner, and will capitalize accordingly.Z    ' My characterisations of a few companies3   IBM - serious business  HP/UX - part-geek & part-serious Sun - half-geek. Linux - real geeknA Compaq - a teenager, too attached to its toys to be a real adult.d     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:54:32 -0500d% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>o8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!, Message-ID: <3C5984CF.1F10F6E3@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:-K > Re: Sun and IBM... Sun will likely continue with its usual breast-beatingaK > and bloviation. IBM will continue to conduct itself in a professional anda7 > businesslike manner, and will capitalize accordingly.   K Prior to Gertsner reshaping IBM, I have seen a face of IBM sales techniques H that was not "professional" in my opinion (does the word brainwashing ofJ customer VPs come to mind ?). When the Senior VP of information at a largeN canadian bank tells you that it was IBM that invented Unix, you know that he's been given the IBM treatment.B  L Now, since then, I did notice IBM becoming more open to non-IBM technologiesN (TCPIP, ethernet etc). Remember that IBM didn't want t adopt ethernet and wentK for its proprietary Token Ring technolgy that was inferior and a real pain. J And IBM had brainwashed its customers into thinking that ethernet was very inefficient etc etc.  M I think that the IBM mentality has become more compatible with out mentality.3B But I am not sure that IBM has stopped brainwashing its customers.  H Note that when i saw Digital (fail to) compete against Data General on aI ALL-IN-1 vs DG-CEO sale, I also saw how Digital had been brainwashed into K thinking its competitors were totally unable to match what Digital had (and J also saw hwo they were poorly trained to sell ALL-In-1 because they didn't understand the product).   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:54:11 GMTe4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>8 Subject: Re: Capellas wants IBM model, but does reverse!= Message-ID: <7xf68.16403$%h1.6821655@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>u  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C5984CF.1F10F6E3@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: > > > Re: Sun and IBM... Sun will likely continue with its usual breast-beatingI > > and bloviation. IBM will continue to conduct itself in a professionalm and?9 > > businesslike manner, and will capitalize accordingly.c >dB > Prior to Gertsner reshaping IBM, I have seen a face of IBM sales
 techniquesJ > that was not "professional" in my opinion (does the word brainwashing ofL > customer VPs come to mind ?). When the Senior VP of information at a largeK > canadian bank tells you that it was IBM that invented Unix, you know thati he's > been given the IBM treatment.   K Yep. And I well remember the "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" mantra.tI Not to mention the Great Unbundling Antitrust Lawsuit of the early 1970s.-L That said, IBM comes across quite well these days. Case in point: CPQ's beenI beating the Storage Utility and Server Utility drum for a couple of yearsdI now. But it wasn't until last week that IBM ran the four-page Wall Streetf& Journal ad announcing IT as a Utility.  K Some vendors spend their marketing bucks on Wintel consumer peecees. OtherssJ concentrate on high-margin, big-ticket solutions. Guess which of these two& groups will prevail in the long run...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:45:25 +0000 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>m# Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitment 8 Message-ID: <ft7i5u4gj962ffstalm1rqqpnpna63ids5@4ax.com>  A On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:51:24 GMT, michael.greenNOSP@Mvideotron.caM (MikeG) wrote:   >Folks, B >not that I mean to defend Ms Fiorina, but being fair I doubt thatD >she's going to be mentioning commitments to a product (OpenVMS) sheC >doesn't yet own.  Besides, thinking of the event where she uttered   C Unfortunately false. HP have specifically mentioned NSK/Himalaya as B being safe and of value to the new HP. They have conspicuously not said similar regarding VMS.a  @ >such prophetic words, I doubt that OpenVMS is relevant to their >conference/expo.   A Depends on how tightly Linux compatibility can be integrated intou) DII-COE type work and upcoming 7.3-1 etc.i   >t >Just my .02 >Mike G  >  >  > D >On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:47:49 -0500, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> >wrote:k >p$ >>You can read the whole article at: >>D >>http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO67832,00.html >>% >>The comment that caught my eye was:  >>N >>Fiorina said. "This is a combination that's good for Linux. What I have beenF >>telling customers is that as this merger goes forward, our strategicJ >>commitment at the operating system level is to Windows, Unix and Linux." >> >> >> >>   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:47:31 -0500n% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>l# Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitmentt, Message-ID: <3C596712.4A792687@videotron.ca>   MikeG wrote:C > not that I mean to defend Ms Fiorina, but being fair I doubt that.E > she's going to be mentioning commitments to a product (OpenVMS) sheyD > doesn't yet own.  Besides, thinking of the event where she utteredA > such prophetic words, I doubt that OpenVMS is relevant to theirg > conference/expo.  M A CEO that states that she is prepared to quickly absorb Compaq and integratesK it and that they worked aout the integration well before they called in the % merger bankers should know about VMS.u  M IF VMS is a major contributor to Compaq's profits, then like it or not, Carly,H would have gotten Curly to admit to it when she reviewed the financials.L Unless, of course, Curly convinced Carly that the wintel server business wasN highly profitable and worth preserving (that is one product line HP intends to) keep) and hid the true source of profits.d  H Secondly, Carly would know about the Alpha murder and how it is going toJ impact on the credibility of Compaq's enterprise OS and she should know to) thread lightly not to make matters worse.s  L Instead of saying "we will be focusing only on Windows and Linux", she couldW have said "Windows and Linux will feature prominently in our extensive product lineup".a    K These guys are put in a CEO position because they are supposed to be smart."G Assuming that Carly and Curly are smart, then one cannot accuse them ofEL incompetence and hence, one must read their message as if it was intented to be that message.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 10:05:00 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t# Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitment 3 Message-ID: <xPzT5xl8+MMJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  W In article <u5hj3q3ti7c155@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> writes:s$ > You can read the whole article at: > D > http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO67832,00.html > % > The comment that caught my eye was:. > N > Fiorina said. "This is a combination that's good for Linux. What I have beenF > telling customers is that as this merger goes forward, our strategicJ > commitment at the operating system level is to Windows, Unix and Linux."  G    Fine.  Do you really want Carly managing VMS after you see how she's G    managed HP?  VMS is making a profit, maybe she'll sell it to someonel
    who cares.:   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 10:24:37 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)s# Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitments3 Message-ID: <aqS2Py672wma@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  T In article <3C596712.4A792687@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: > O > IF VMS is a major contributor to Compaq's profits, then like it or not, CarlynJ > would have gotten Curly to admit to it when she reviewed the financials.N > Unless, of course, Curly convinced Carly that the wintel server business wasP > highly profitable and worth preserving (that is one product line HP intends to+ > keep) and hid the true source of profits.o >   1 	You can't make a case with statements like this:s  M > Curly convinced Carly that the wintel server business was highly profitable-  G 	It either is highly profitable or it isn't.  The numbers are there or cC 	they aren't... it isn't as if these folks sit around and speculatesC 	without knowing and *showing* what their business units are doing.k  % > and hid the true source of profits.s  - 	whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whopf     				Robm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:14:37 GMTp From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG # Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitment 0 Message-ID: <00A08DD9.506EC1FC@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <aqS2Py672wma@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes: U >In article <3C596712.4A792687@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes:l >> CP >> IF VMS is a major contributor to Compaq's profits, then like it or not, CarlyK >> would have gotten Curly to admit to it when she reviewed the financials.tO >> Unless, of course, Curly convinced Carly that the wintel server business wascQ >> highly profitable and worth preserving (that is one product line HP intends to , >> keep) and hid the true source of profits. >> g >s2 >	You can't make a case with statements like this: >mN >> Curly convinced Carly that the wintel server business was highly profitable >oH >	It either is highly profitable or it isn't.  The numbers are there or D >	they aren't... it isn't as if these folks sit around and speculateD >	without knowing and *showing* what their business units are doing.  A Creative accounting a la Andersen.  Look what they did for Enron!m   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMf             J   "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery I   intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" -- Calvin & Hobbes-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:39:27 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> # Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitment 5 Message-ID: <3C59814F.FC2EC01F@swissonline.delete.ch>    Rob Young wrote: > V > In article <3C596712.4A792687@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: ...r > O > > Curly convinced Carly that the wintel server business was highly profitablei > O >         It either is highly profitable or it isn't.  The numbers are there oraL >         they aren't... it isn't as if these folks sit around and speculateL >         without knowing and *showing* what their business units are doing. > ' > > and hid the true source of profits.t > 6 >         whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop-whop > % >                                 Rob   ? I agree with you a little on this Rob but the fact remains thatHG Cappellas keeps saying how they are number 1 in PC sales and what greattH revenue this is, but he very conveniently forgets to say the losses that2 PCs are causing and have caused for several years.  F Sure there was a small profit in Year 2000 but over the period 99-01, E the "Access"  segment - ie. PCs - lost a total of about $800 MILLION.d  D Capellas is supposed to be an accountant but it looks like he failed Accounting 101.  Revenue is *not* profit.     John McLeane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:48:31 -0500n% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>s# Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitment , Message-ID: <3C598366.E38AC4BE@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:O >         It either is highly profitable or it isn't.  The numbers are there orbL >         they aren't... it isn't as if these folks sit around and speculateL >         without knowing and *showing* what their business units are doing.  L When you consider that Compaq officials refuse to answer questions that showM the breakdown of profitability of the real enterprise stuff versus the winteltI server stuff, one has to consider the *possibility* that Curly would have.H given the same treatment to Carly and led her to believe that the winter& server business was highly profitable.  I It should be no news to anyone that creative accounting is not unknown ini corporate circles.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:58:35 GMT?4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net># Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitmentl= Message-ID: <fBf68.16404$%h1.6823087@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>h  2 "JF Mezei" <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3C598366.E38AC4BE@videotron.ca... > Rob Young wrote:H > >         It either is highly profitable or it isn't.  The numbers are there orD > >         they aren't... it isn't as if these folks sit around and	 speculate1G > >         without knowing and *showing* what their business units arec doing. >lI > When you consider that Compaq officials refuse to answer questions that8 showH > the breakdown of profitability of the real enterprise stuff versus the wintelK > server stuff, one has to consider the *possibility* that Curly would have J > given the same treatment to Carly and led her to believe that the winter( > server business was highly profitable.  L And carrying that same theme forward, it is equally possible that all the HPF strategists, numbercrunchers, and competitive intelligence people were similarly gulled.d  - IMHO the possibility is pretty darned remote.o   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 12:07:16 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)o# Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitmenti3 Message-ID: <uqebazbX1RhT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3C598366.E38AC4BE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes: > Rob Young wrote:P >>         It either is highly profitable or it isn't.  The numbers are there orM >>         they aren't... it isn't as if these folks sit around and speculate M >>         without knowing and *showing* what their business units are doing.d > N > When you consider that Compaq officials refuse to answer questions that showO > the breakdown of profitability of the real enterprise stuff versus the wintel K > server stuff, one has to consider the *possibility* that Curly would haveeJ > given the same treatment to Carly and led her to believe that the winter( > server business was highly profitable. > K > It should be no news to anyone that creative accounting is not unknown in  > corporate circles.  ? 	This is all well and good, after all .. we are John Q. Public.o  A 	However, in the case of a merger, books are dug into and secrets,< 	shared.  They don't sit around speculating... and then pullG 	the trigger on a merger based on warm fuzzy feelings, and proposing ort? 	espousing such a theory isn't even worthy of idle speculation.c  H 	In generla, they don't break down their revenues segment by segment for: 	Competitive Intelligence reasons.  There are very similar@ 	things going on at all corporations.  Revenue by each and everyB 	business unit aren't broken out (normally).  The recent break-out@ 	of VMS revs was/is a rare exception... done no doubt to counterE 	Gartner FUD.  We know now that VMS has 411K customers and $2 billion.G 	annual run rate on service revenues.  That is competitive information.e  ? 	Tell me how big AIX is.  How many customers?  How much servicen, 	revenue per annum?  Solaris - same there...  
 	etc. etc.   				Robc   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:39:23 -0000w- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) # Subject: Re: Carly's O/S Commitmento7 Message-ID: <91A78239Awarrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>n  0 koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in) <xPzT5xl8+MMJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>: e  ? >In article <u5hj3q3ti7c155@news.supernews.com>, "John Vottero"E ><John@mvpsi.com> writes: % >> You can read the whole article at:b >> PE >> http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO67832,00.html: >>  & >> The comment that caught my eye was: >> eE >> Fiorina said. "This is a combination that's good for Linux. What I G >> have been telling customers is that as this merger goes forward, ouroI >> strategic commitment at the operating system level is to Windows, Unixs >> and Linux." t >-H >   Fine.  Do you really want Carly managing VMS after you see how she'sH >   managed HP?  VMS is making a profit, maybe she'll sell it to someone >   who cares.    I If you're gonna sell an asset like OpenVMS, it's only an asset when it's  J producing a profit.  So the time to sell would likely be soon-ish, if you G believe Gartner's repeated and unsubstantiated prognostications of the - impending demise of OpenVMS.   ws   -- 0   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)C The Associated Press  @ ** When Windows is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:28:20 +0100 E From: Jan C. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vorbr=FCggen?= <jvorbrueggen@mediasec.de>c( Subject: Re: Compaq financial conference+ Message-ID: <3C590024.CC103F82@mediasec.de>i  H As a fault-tolerant system, the Shuttle control system is a very strangeG beast. There is a seperately-coded systgem but that is a second line ofnK defense against complete failure (likely because of a common-mode (probablytG software) error) in the primary system. The primary system is four-fold N redundant with voting; h9wever, IIRC the outputs of an out-voted processor areM not disabled, so that the command actually performed is a sum of the commands 8 issued by all processors - a sort of physical averaqing.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:19:42 +0000i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>t> Subject: Re: Comparitive reliability figures as used by Compaq8 Message-ID: <gp5i5uc4cd8o7ilhqufi6l70vjqc463ho3@4ax.com>  5 On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:41:55 -0500, "Fred Kleinsorge" $ <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:  L >Rest assured that VMS will not run on a 64p system unless it is partitionedF >into instances no larger than 32p.  This is because VMS assumed a CPUE >namespace that fit into a 32bit mask.  That can't change until V8.0.e  E Given that Elias publicly announced that multiple 64p EV7 systems areoF up and running every (presumably Alpha) Compaq O/S can you give us anyC info on how well VMS 7.3 seems to run with an EV7 2 instance galaxycD cluster of 32p each? Given that the London DECUS presentation showedB an even larger EV7 (*censored* processor) system built to prove it! worked is there any info on that?s  > If you can send me an EV7 GS1280 I will happily live  with theE restriction of a "4 nodes in a box" cluster configuration. Where do IbE sign up for the free field test program? ;-) I promise not to try ando boot W2K RC2 on it.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:29:20 +0100 (MET),9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t# Subject: COPY, BACKUP, /FTP etc etch; Message-ID: <01KDQ53NL7BK8ZJH7N@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>t  H Let us consider the process of copying a file.  For the source, we have . 3 choices (ignoring wild cards for now), e.g.       DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;3      DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;e      DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B  8 For the destination, we have (at least) 5 choices, e.g.       DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;3      DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;i      DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B      DISK:[DIRECTORY]*      DISK:[DIRECTORY]t  G (Of course, DISK: and/or [DIRECTORY] can be omitted if one accepts the .	 default.)n   So that's 15 possibilities.   G We then have to take into account whether no, a higher, a lower or the v/ same version of the output file already exists.u  H We then have to look at COPY, both locally and over DECnet, BACKUP (why 4 can't BACKUP work over DECnet?), COPY/FTP, FTP, RCP.  H Altogether, a lot of different possibilities to copy a file from A to B.  G That said, it's probably not a surprise that things are not completely m) consistent.  My question: bug or feature?r  H My feeling is that, unless there is an obvious reason for the opposite, : then all commands should have the same, logical behaviour.  ; Let's begin with local COPY.  Basically, if the output fileiE specification is incomplete or wildcarded, the missing information istG taken from the input specification (including defaults).  If the output D file is not fully specified, the creation date of the source file isD kept, otherwise, it reflects the new creation.  (Presumably, if one I fully specifies the output file, one "really" wants a new file and hence tG new creation date---regardless of whether the name is the same as that nF which would have been constructed from an incomplete specification.)  I The modified date is always updated.  If the output file already exists, oG one gets an error and the file is not copied.  If there is no (higher) cE version of the output file, the file is copied.  If a higher version 2# already exists, one gets a warning.h  $ This behaviour seems sensible to me.  ' Let's contrast it with other behaviour.h  G BACKUP, COPY over DECnet, COPY/FTP and FTP do not issue a warning if a r& higer version exists.  Bug or feature?  C BACKUP keeps both dates, COPY over DECnet behaves like local COPY, lD COPY/FTP and FTP update both dates.  Bugs or features?  I think the D latter: a BACKUP is conceptually distinct from a COPY, and a BACKUP D should be IDENTICAL to the source file, so keeping both dates makes H sense; (COPY/)FTP is for creating files on "remote systems", so updating  both dates seems to make sense.    What about t      $  XXX A.B A.B   G i.e. XXX is one of the commands in question and no version is specified I for input or output files?  All commands except BACKUP will create a new rG version each time they are repeated; BACKUP won't, but gives the "file m/ already exists" error message.  Bug or feature?t  F This information was gleaned from tests on 7.3.  I haven't multiplied D the number of possibilities by the number of possibilities of (even H supported) versions of VMS.  I do recall some preliminary tests I did a A year or so ago which showed that, whatever one thinks of the 7.3 tI behaviour, it was NOT always emulated when the source and/or target file ( was not on a 7.3 system.  E What about COPY/RCP?  Is this just a wrapper for RCP?  (OK, COPY/FTP lH might be just a "wrapper" for FTP, but avoids the interactive aspect.)  C Is there any point in using (COPY/)RCP or is it just for backwards lB compatibility with (applications which talk to) unix applications?  	 Comments?    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 11:25:30 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org' Subject: Re: COPY, BACKUP, /FTP etc etcp3 Message-ID: <HLktFzTXKVqv@eisner.encompasserve.org>s  w In article <01KDQ53NL7BK8ZJH7N@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>, Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com> writes:iJ > Let us consider the process of copying a file.  For the source, we have 0 > 3 choices (ignoring wild cards for now), e.g.  >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;3 >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;y >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B > : > For the destination, we have (at least) 5 choices, e.g.  >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;3 >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B;r >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]A.B >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]* >  >    DISK:[DIRECTORY]y > I > (Of course, DISK: and/or [DIRECTORY] can be omitted if one accepts the   > default.)a >  > So that's 15 possibilities.o > I > We then have to take into account whether no, a higher, a lower or the  1 > same version of the output file already exists.n > J > We then have to look at COPY, both locally and over DECnet, BACKUP (why 6 > can't BACKUP work over DECnet?), COPY/FTP, FTP, RCP. > J > Altogether, a lot of different possibilities to copy a file from A to B. > I > That said, it's probably not a surprise that things are not completely _+ > consistent.  My question: bug or feature?:  D Before you can call it either, you've got to identify how the actualI behavior differs from the expected behavior.  And before you can do that,d- you've got to identify the expected behavior.t  D If the expected behavior is documented and the documentation matches' your expectation then you've got a bug.w  E If the expected behavior is documented and the documentation does notiG match your expectation (but does match the actual behavior) then you'vei got a feature.  @ If the expected behavior is undocumented, you could have either.  J > My feeling is that, unless there is an obvious reason for the opposite, < > then all commands should have the same, logical behaviour.  C Sounds reasonable, but vague.  I'd quibble about the word "obvious" - and there's a lot of wiggle room in "should".a  = > Let's begin with local COPY.  Basically, if the output fileuG > specification is incomplete or wildcarded, the missing information isoI > taken from the input specification (including defaults).  If the output-F > file is not fully specified, the creation date of the source file isF > kept, otherwise, it reflects the new creation.  (Presumably, if one K > fully specifies the output file, one "really" wants a new file and hence vI > new creation date---regardless of whether the name is the same as that 1H > which would have been constructed from an incomplete specification.)  K > The modified date is always updated.  If the output file already exists, rI > one gets an error and the file is not copied.  If there is no (higher) aG > version of the output file, the file is copied.  If a higher version b% > already exists, one gets a warning.w > & > This behaviour seems sensible to me.  8 Agreed.  I can imagine other sensible behaviors as well.  ) > Let's contrast it with other behaviour.e > I > BACKUP, COPY over DECnet, COPY/FTP and FTP do not issue a warning if a s( > higer version exists.  Bug or feature?  I BACKUP:  No documentation one way or the other.  And no compelling reasonsB to expect either behavior.  Not a bug certainly.  And probably not a feature either.e  I COPY over DECnet:  No documentation one way or the other.  In the context H of DECnet, file creation is done in a FAL process on the far end and theH local system has no guarantee that the far end file system even supportsG file versioning.  Certainly it's not worth creating another FAL processdE at the far end of another network link in order to check for a higher-E existing version of a file before proceeding with creation.  Feature.L  B COPY/FTP:  Who told COPY/FTP that the far end file system supportsD versions?  Do you really want to have the FTP client preceding everyE occurrence of PUT with an NLST?  And how are you going to ensure that H the far end file server includes version information in its NLST output? Feature.  & FTP:  As above but stronger.  Feature.  E > BACKUP keeps both dates, COPY over DECnet behaves like local COPY, tF > COPY/FTP and FTP update both dates.  Bugs or features?  I think the F > latter: a BACKUP is conceptually distinct from a COPY, and a BACKUP F > should be IDENTICAL to the source file, so keeping both dates makes J > sense; (COPY/)FTP is for creating files on "remote systems", so updating! > both dates seems to make sense.i  I Agreed.  Plus, FTP is a protocol that doesn't support time stamps at all.g  
 > What about b >  >    $  XXX A.B A.B  > I > i.e. XXX is one of the commands in question and no version is specifiedtK > for input or output files?  All commands except BACKUP will create a new lI > version each time they are repeated; BACKUP won't, but gives the "file e1 > already exists" error message.  Bug or feature?e  F It's documented, so it's a feature.  You almost have to do things thisE way.  It is desireable to have COPY create a new version.  But BACKUP-D typically is called upon to deal with multiple versions of each fileE (the default if you don't specify the version explicitly on the inputgA file is to assume ";*").  And if you create a new version for the D first version encountered, you'll wind up copying successively lowerC versioned input files as successively higher versioned output filesdF (as is also explicitly documented).  And so it is usually undesireable# to have BACKUP create new versions.   G If you like, pretend that COPY has a default output file name of "*.*;"f> and that BACKUP has a default output file name of "*.*;*"  AndB similarly, pretend that COPY has a default input file name of ".;"8 and that BACKUP has a default input file name of "*.*;*"  I All four are reasonable defaults for the expected usage of the respectivee? commands.  And all four match actual behavior in my experience.o   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:43:08 -0500   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com' Subject: Re: COPY, BACKUP, /FTP etc etcO4 Message-ID: <C2256B52.0060F26B.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  8 Not to put too fine a point on this discussion, but IIRC< BACKUP has qualifiers for /NEW_VERSION /OVERLAY and /REPLACE/ which further influence behavior at the target.   I Moreover, it is possible with COPY and with BACKUP to create target files.J in reverse order of their creation if you are not careful with the versionF specifications on source and target files, which may or may not be theK intended result.  These points should be incorporated into your discussions N of intended vs. unintended and feature vs. bug; they certainly are documented.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:19:38 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> + Subject: RE: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris?nT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4016CE913@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>  . >>> before the project specs were defined. <<<  E Reminds me of the Dilbert cartoon when the Manager tells his staff ofe
 programmers -   F "Ok, you guys start coding and I will run up and talk to the end users% about what their requirements are .."p   :-).   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantm Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Servicesc Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----, From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei@videotron.ca] Sent: January 30, 2002 11:44 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + Subject: Re: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris?s     "Main, Kerry" wrote:< > >> They rewrote the app from scratch. Took them 2 years.<< >=20G > Let me guess - to get the CEO interested, they stated it could all bewB > done in 3-6 months and 64bit NT was "right around the corner" ..  H No. The CIO decided it had to be done on Microsoft software only, before thesH project specs were defined. I had suggested Digital as consultants to do theeC conversion sicne DEC was a Microsoft approved outfit, but he didn't.
 think thatH Digital was a "real" microsoft outfit and never returned the calls I had  arranged DEC make to his office.  > He is the perfect example of "nobody's been fired for choosing microsoft".f   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:01:57 GMTn4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>+ Subject: Re: Cross Compiler to SUN/Solaris?g0 Message-ID: <3C59854B.BB82939E@blueyonder.co.uk>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > JF - >  > Can't resist ..t > < > >> They rewrote the app from scratch. Took them 2 years.<<  F at least they didn't reengineer the business process at the same time.# Add a further 2 years ish for that.t   > G > Let me guess - to get the CEO interested, they stated it could all beeB > done in 3-6 months and 64bit NT was "right around the corner" .. > # > I hear Consultants love change ... >  > :-)u  aK this consultant would certainly like to see a change in the number of sitesg. and businesses deplying VMS, an upward change.     -- e Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  .  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of  ! my employers or service provider.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:26:39 +0200i2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> Subject: Re: CSWS: POST Probleme+ Message-ID: <3C5929EE.31A79F78@digital.com>@  A Snippet from a .COM file that works for me (Called by a form withr
 Method=POST):n   $e $ open/read inp APACHE$INPUT: - $ read/end=finish/error=oops inp QUERY_STRING  $ close/nolog inpt $!& $ run APACHE$ROOT:[CGI-BIN]HTML_DECODE $!  E Where HTML_DECODE is an .EXE that breaks the symbol QUERY_STRING into"& <field-name>=<value> type sub-symbols.     Rick Barry wrote:e > / > "Theo Platt" <theop@itex.je> wrote in messagea9 > news:31ff7ddd.0201300650.5a9d5dbe@posting.google.com...e? > > We're noticing the same problem with GET and PUT populating D > > WWW_QUERY_STRING but POST not doing the same. Did you get to the > > bottom of it ? > >,H > > Reading around a bit and I've found that POST is supposed to put theI > > query into APACHE$INPUT but the value stored in there doesn't seem to % > > resemble anything like the query.o > >,
 > > Cheers > >  > > Theo > M > GET and PUT place the query data in WWW_QUERY_STRING. For POST, you get the.J > query data from APACHE$INPUT. The query data should look pretty much the > same. What are you seeing? >  > Rick Barry+ > Compaq Secure Web Server Development Team- > OpenVMS System Software Groupa > Compaq Computer Corporation0 > Nashua, NH   -- iE ---------------------------------------------------------------------mE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*yF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------r -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:57:56 +0100-$ From: "labadie" <labadie_g@decus.fr>0 Subject: Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space1 Message-ID: <HYc68.257$am1.4533@news.cpqcorp.net>    Helloo  - You should install Amds/ Availability Manager3  J It is free, it is a very good tool, and you will be able to have a precise0 idea about your process and his pgflquota needs. download it atA http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/availman/news.htmlr  < Ctlpages is used to store logical names, among other things.H If you have a lot of logicals defined for this process, you will need to bump it.A You can see how much ctlpages you have used for your process withy $ sh process/memoryo but you can't do sh proc/mem/id=...   RegardsS   Grard  A "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net> wrote in messagea> news:Zu%58.8329$By6.970313@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...J > Alpha VMS 7.2-1 (and 7.2-1H1) I have a database application that on someF > very large sites has generated a "virtual address space" error.  The@ > processes in question have sufficent pqflquota, monitored withI > F$GETJPI(PID,"PGFLQUOTA").  After an unproductive sesssion with CSC (no F > names here) I was advised to increase the sysgen parameter CTLPAGES.L > "CTLPAGES specifies the size of P1 pool"  This has eliminated the problem,2 > although follow on increases have been required. >tJ > On my last autogen I set MIN_CTLPAGES=640.  I'd like to monitor this for thenH > database processes and be able to anticipate my reboots/tuning.  TableH > DCLI-9 in the DCL Dictionary points out FREP1VA and FREPTECNT, but theL > values I'm getting from F$GETJPI (7AD02000 and 2147483647) on process withH > PGFLQUOTA of 9000000 don't match my mental model of what the system is= > doing.    Can someone point me in the right direction here?  >S > -- >O > Andy Bustamante * > remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail >a >p >t >. >e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:27:41 GMTo1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>r0 Subject: Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 Space2 Message-ID: <3C59716E.1A04B343@clarityconnect.com>   Andy,(H 	The error that you cite is way to vague and is not any VMS error that IA have seen.  There are a number of VA space pools maintained for atD process.  As for CTLPAGES please refer to the DSNlink article titledG [OpenVMS] Discussion Of Special SYSGEN Parameters CTLPAGES And PIOPAGESt- in which you will find the following section.h  > The size of this pool is specified (in pagelets) by the SYSGENE parameter CTLPAGES.  The free space is maintained by a singly linked,s6 memory-ordered list.  The listhead is CTL$GQ_ALLOCREG.  H The SHOW PROCESS/MEMORY command will look at your own processes CTLPAGESD usage but there is no command available to look at another processes0 CTLPAGES usage.  FOr that you'd need to use SDA.   Michael Austin wrote:p >  > Andy Bustamante wrote: > >yL > > Alpha VMS 7.2-1 (and 7.2-1H1) I have a database application that on someH > > very large sites has generated a "virtual address space" error.  TheB > > processes in question have sufficent pqflquota, monitored withK > > F$GETJPI(PID,"PGFLQUOTA").  After an unproductive sesssion with CSC (nodH > > names here) I was advised to increase the sysgen parameter CTLPAGES.N > > "CTLPAGES specifies the size of P1 pool"  This has eliminated the problem,4 > > although follow on increases have been required. > >hP > > On my last autogen I set MIN_CTLPAGES=640.  I'd like to monitor this for theJ > > database processes and be able to anticipate my reboots/tuning.  TableJ > > DCLI-9 in the DCL Dictionary points out FREP1VA and FREPTECNT, but theN > > values I'm getting from F$GETJPI (7AD02000 and 2147483647) on process withJ > > PGFLQUOTA of 9000000 don't match my mental model of what the system is? > > doing.    Can someone point me in the right direction here?o > >s > > -- > >a > > Andy Bustamantes, > > remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail >  > Andy,. > I > Which database engine are you using.  This would be helpful in figuringu$ > out what should be where and when. > -- > 
 > Regards, >  > Michael Austin9 > First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.com  > Sr. DBA Consultant   -- .D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:30:50 GMTi6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>0 Subject: Re: CTLPAGES - Monitoring Free P1 SpaceF Message-ID: <u3g68.10632$ks5.1027277@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  K It's our own database product.  We're a VAR reselling database services andsK system maintenance.  The application creates detached processes which sharelI large global sections to service user requests.  End user access is by vtm+ emulation (the old stuff) or browser based.a  J What I'd like to find is something which compares to F$GETSYI("WSMAX") and F$GETJPI(PID,"WSPEAK").p   --   Andy Bustamanteq( remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail      > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3C58AF5C.9E4A3980@firstdbasource.com... > Andy Bustamante wrote: > >pL > > Alpha VMS 7.2-1 (and 7.2-1H1) I have a database application that on someH > > very large sites has generated a "virtual address space" error.  TheB > > processes in question have sufficent pqflquota, monitored withK > > F$GETJPI(PID,"PGFLQUOTA").  After an unproductive sesssion with CSC (noRH > > names here) I was advised to increase the sysgen parameter CTLPAGES.E > > "CTLPAGES specifies the size of P1 pool"  This has eliminated then problem,4 > > although follow on increases have been required. > >sL > > On my last autogen I set MIN_CTLPAGES=640.  I'd like to monitor this for the J > > database processes and be able to anticipate my reboots/tuning.  TableJ > > DCLI-9 in the DCL Dictionary points out FREP1VA and FREPTECNT, but theI > > values I'm getting from F$GETJPI (7AD02000 and 2147483647) on processf withJ > > PGFLQUOTA of 9000000 don't match my mental model of what the system is? > > doing.    Can someone point me in the right direction here?  > >i > > -- > >a > > Andy Bustamantec, > > remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail >  > Andy,e >iI > Which database engine are you using.  This would be helpful in figuringe$ > out what should be where and when. > -- >t
 > Regards, >a > Michael Austin9 > First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.come > Sr. DBA Consultant >p >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:40:56 +0000a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>r7 Subject: Re: C|Net - Itanium to take on Alpha influencer8 Message-ID: <mj7i5ugtg5h00nkjvtitqd5ipt918d0pvq@4ax.com>  C On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:11:50 -0500, JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>l wrote:   >Ken Farmer wrote: >> i% >> Itanium to take on Alpha influencet, >> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-826527.html >nO >Until Intel reveals specific features that were present in Alpha and ported toaH >IA64, I continue to see those articles as vaporware.  The only concreteM >information in the article is that Intel is using former Compaq employees toe$ >develop the compilers for the IA64.  8 You forgot one other bit of highly relevant information:  ? "Alpha engineers have also been behind some of Intel's toughestnC competitors. Dirk Meyer and Fred Weber, the two chief technologistsaD behind Advanced Micro Devices' Athlon and upcoming Hammer chips, are Alpha alumni".  F So the 64 bit battle is between ex Alpha designers in the AMD camp and@ Intel camp then. Pity DEC/Compaq hadn't been so incompetent theyC couldn't leverage their own world-beating expertise. Pretty good atr "self-beating" though it seems.t     -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:01:09 -0500w, From: "Michael L. Umbricht" <mikeu@osfn.org>% Subject: DEC 3800 power-up error codes' Message-ID: <3C596A45.BE7D34A@osfn.org>t  . The system is a DEC 3000 800 / model: PE52A-A9  H When the power is turned on the LEDs on the front count down and stop at EFE The serial console does not show any messages, and does not respond. r: (The position of switch S3 does not change the behaviour.)  ! What does error code EF indicate?    -mikeu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:15:00 -0500h2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>. Subject: Re: DEC ALPHA ES40 Equipment For Sale. Message-ID: <3C597B94.DC806875@mindspring.com>   Michael Heiming wrote:  " > This is a newsgroup not a bazar!  3 Careful! A reply like that may suggest that there's / not even a *RESIDUAL* market for DEC equipment,r let alone a NEW market.c  4 Given all the general Internet spam that turns up in3 this newsgroup, one "for sale" article doesn't seemo like much of a camel's nose.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:02:50 +0100i' From: Brass Christof <welcome@spam.net>eY Subject: Re: DECW$SERVER_0 dies periodically; X11 colour wheel program blackouts the  scr.( Message-ID: <3C59245A.B82BEF4C@spam.net>  " "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" wrote: > - > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Fred Kleinsorge wrote:r > ) > >+If you have a support contract, [...]  > [...]l > >+>Brass Christof wrote: > [...] 1 > >+>> This is a machine with a hobbyist license.i > < >  Hm... Will suspect that the system is explicitly excluded4 > from support contract, althought I can be wrong :)  # Fred was replying to Hoblit Sam ;-)   9 If you look at the thread structure you will detect that.a   > Sam Hoblit wrote [...]G > >+>I don't know how to help you, just wanted to say we have a similar H > >+>problem - DECW$SERVER_0 dies on a couple of machines in our cluster > >+>every few days or so. > ( >  Have also seen in past the behaviour.; >  Because that was a real production system this was *not*a8 > a problem ;> (console only and no problem with restart > from near machines) - but...   Thanks for joining!C   >  Best regards - Gotfrydt >  > --G > =====================================================================eH > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") -' >                 THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEe0 > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plG > =====================================================================v   -- h6 moc dot slupofni at ssarb - please revert the sequence   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2002 12:57:15 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)d( Subject: Default terminal printer in CDE0 Message-ID: <a3bevb$llt$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  J how do I define a default printer for my DECterm windows under CDE? I haveJ a logical SYS$PRINT defined jobwide that points to my preferred queue. But' this doesn't help. I tried to to put a t/   $ DEFINE decw$printer_format_default "LASER7"oO in SESSIONETC.COM, no luck either. Setting the printer from within the terminalhH window and saving the settings in DECW$TERMINAL_DEFAULT.DAT doesn't helpJ either. The printer setting doesn't seem to get saved in there. Thus, what else could I try?o   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanns  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:29:08 +0000 (UTC)-9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>   Subject: emacs21 almost working?- Message-ID: <a3b9q4$blc$1@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no>S  ' Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:F  5 : "Distribution" is at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/emacs   * New one at emacs211_4.bck.gz. (Almost 40M)  5 (Start it with mcr []temacs_d -l loadup, for example)h  > Now it actually can be used for editing and some other things.  * Feedback, debuggers and developers needed.  : : SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT, AST fault, SP=00000000, param=00000000,K : PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000, target PC=FFFFFFFF80A50B44, PS=0000001B6   : Those errors are still there. ( : I have no idea about what causes them.  M I suspect it has something to do with new emacs timer functionality, but have0# still no idea what happens and why.i  $ : There are still keyboard problems.L : If typing does not work (especially ESC) do a stop and go on the debugger.  4 It works now. (A struct input_event needed a bzero.)   Regards, Roar Throns   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:36:35 -0800h# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>t$ Subject: RE: emacs21 almost working?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOHEAAA.tom@kednos.com>s   Roar,a  = I picked up the file, but it gets stored as emacs211_4_bck.gztC When I unzip it it becomes emacs211_4_bck.;1, backup says it is notc8 a save-set, I rename it emacs211_4.bck still sam result.   What do I need to do?    Tom    > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Roar Throns [mailto:roart@nvg.ntnu.no]-* > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:29 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " > Subject: emacs21 almost working? >u > ) > Roar Throns <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:g >e7 > : "Distribution" is at ftp.nvg.ntnu.no:/pub/vms/emacsK >y, > New one at emacs211_4.bck.gz. (Almost 40M) > 7 > (Start it with mcr []temacs_d -l loadup, for example). > @ > Now it actually can be used for editing and some other things. >m, > Feedback, debuggers and developers needed. > < > : SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT, AST fault, SP=00000000, param=00000000,A > : PC=0000000000000000, PS=00000000, target PC=FFFFFFFF80A50B44,o
 > PS=0000001B  >e! > : Those errors are still there. * > : I have no idea about what causes them. >e7 > I suspect it has something to do with new emacs timerd > functionality, but haveg% > still no idea what happens and why.o > & > : There are still keyboard problems.@ > : If typing does not work (especially ESC) do a stop and go on > the debugger.- >-6 > It works now. (A struct input_event needed a bzero.) > 
 > Regards, > Roar Throns >c   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:43:05 +0100 (CET)F9 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> $ Subject: RE: emacs21 almost working?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0201311541540.30180-100000@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no>  & On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Tom Linden wrote:   > Roar,R >:? > I picked up the file, but it gets stored as emacs211_4_bck.gzaE > When I unzip it it becomes emacs211_4_bck.;1, backup says it is not.: > a save-set, I rename it emacs211_4.bck still sam result. >o > What do I need to do?f  & Do a set file/attr=3D(LRL:32256) *.bck   Regards, Roar Thron=E6s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 06:58:52 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>e$ Subject: RE: emacs21 almost working?9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEOJEAAA.tom@kednos.com>t   Roar,u  5 That didn't work, but I realized that I needed to run'5 RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES on the file; however,,   backup emacs211_4.bck/save []   . doesn't create the subdirs.  Next step please?   > -----Original Message-----/ > From: Roar Throns [mailto:roart@nvg.ntnu.no]l* > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 6:43 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & > Subject: RE: emacs21 almost working? >  >p( > On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Tom Linden wrote: >e	 > > Roar,o > > A > > I picked up the file, but it gets stored as emacs211_4_bck.gz-G > > When I unzip it it becomes emacs211_4_bck.;1, backup says it is notr< > > a save-set, I rename it emacs211_4.bck still sam result. > >h > > What do I need to do?  >r& > Do a set file/attr=(LRL:32256) *.bck >9
 > Regards, > Roar Throns >    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:08:39 +0100 (CET)-9 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no>O$ Subject: RE: emacs21 almost working?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0201311607300.30180-100000@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no>  & On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Tom Linden wrote:   > Roar,L >-7 > That didn't work, but I realized that I needed to run 7 > RESET_BACKUP_SAVESET_ATTRIBUTES on the file; however,s >> > backup emacs211_4.bck/save []i >F0 > doesn't create the subdirs.  Next step please?    backup emacs211_4.bck/save [...]   Regards, Roar Thron=E6s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:46:38 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>( Subject: EU Gives CPQ Acquisition a Pass= Message-ID: <iig68.16406$%h1.6844275@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>s  * More information at http://www.openvms.org   -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows Compaq% Director at Large, Encompass US, Inc.h, Northern Delegate, DFWCUG Steering Committee  email: terryshannon@mediaone.net2 Web (info on SKC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------   Date: 31 Jan 2002 14:33:03 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t! Subject: EU to appprove HP-Compaq-' Message-ID: <a3bkiv$ia5$1@joe.rice.edu>t# Keywords: eu,approve,merger,hwp,cpqh  ,    http://money.cnn.com/2002/01/31/deals/hp/3    Report: EU to appprove HP-Compaq - Jan. 31, 2002   @   "NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - European regulators are set to approveB    Hewlett-Packard Co.'s planned $25 billion acquisition of Compaq=    Computer Corp. without conditions, a report said Thursday.1F    The European Commission has concluded that a combined HP and CompaqC    would face effective competition in all the markets in which the.I    company competes, The Wall Street Journal said, citing people familiarn    with the case./  F    A spokesman for the commission in Brussels said it would rule later:    Thursday afternoon about the deal, Reuters reported..."    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 01:38:30 -0800. From: PeterMoreton@hotmail.com (Peter Moreton)4 Subject: Re: Export Monitor Data to CSV file, Excel?= Message-ID: <c1243f29.0201310138.36989b0b@posting.google.com>-  A Thanks to everyone who replied, I now have MONITOR_TO_CSV and ECPoE downloaded, so should be able to solve this requirement now. Peter M.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:42:55 +0100e9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>o% Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS e-store gone?r' Message-ID: <3C59038F.B79047AC@aaa.com>c  & I couldn't care less, the OVMS e-store was US-only anyway.d   What ?) If I believe in this thing called e-Biz ?T Well, not sure realy...w   Jan-Erik Sderholm (Sweden)  ! "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:s > 7 > I believe the there was a link to the OpenVMS e-storeT > at www.openvms.compaq.com .a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:35:37 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com>l% Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS e-store gone?s? Message-ID: <ZCc68.492842$oj3.94108759@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>s  9 I was almost excited.  I found the page and I registered.   G It asked me which  Network OS I used and presented several choices.  Ofd  course, I had to select "OTHER".  ? It asked me which OS I used.  Of course, I had to select OTHER.d  ; It asked me which Manufacturer  I used.  Again,   OTHER!!!!e  : "MikeG" <michael.greenNOSP@Mvideotron.ca> wrote in message+ news:3c58a52c.21289665@news.videotron.ca...  > John, E > by George !! You're correct!  The already tenous e-Store (sic) linkLH > has just gone poof (?!).  Too bad because it would've been nice to see >lF > a direct order site happening.  Doing a little surfing however I didB > uncover an link referred to as "Compaq Customer Advantage" whichC > seems to require some prior registration and "makes buying CompaqeH > products easier".   It certainly is being presented in low key fashion > = > judging from the site:  http://www.compaq.com/advantage/na/o >r > Mike >  >  >L >T   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:00:18 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)e0 Subject: Itanium to be "Alpha Inside " says cNet7 Message-ID: <91A778915warrenspencer1977@209.249.90.100>   . At:  http://news.com.com/2100-1001-826527.html  H Compaq Computer's Alpha chip may be heading toward the periphery of the K market, but its influence will live on in versions of Intel's Itanium chip r coming out in 2004 and beyond. l  L Santa Clara, Calif.-based Intel is readying two new versions of its Itanium L chip--code-named Montecito and Chivano--that will incorporate concepts from I the Alpha architecture, according to sources. Montecito will likely come -A out in 2004, while Chivano will probably appear in 2005 or 2006.    
 -- snip --  ' Check out the url for the full story...u   ws   -- L   Warren Spencer' Senior Software Engineer (not a writer)k The Associated Press  @ ** When Windows is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:40:48 +0100e1 From: John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch>s4 Subject: Re: Itanium to be "Alpha Inside " says cNet5 Message-ID: <3C5981A0.DCAC792D@swissonline.delete.ch>    Warren Spencer wrote:s > 0 > At:  http://news.com.com/2100-1001-826527.html > I > Compaq Computer's Alpha chip may be heading toward the periphery of thebL > market, but its influence will live on in versions of Intel's Itanium chip  > coming out in 2004 and beyond. > M > Santa Clara, Calif.-based Intel is readying two new versions of its ItaniumaM > chip--code-named Montecito and Chivano--that will incorporate concepts fromiJ > the Alpha architecture, according to sources. Montecito will likely comeB > out in 2004, while Chivano will probably appear in 2005 or 2006.     In a word, "wishware".     John McLean    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:09:12 -0800EC From: "Kenneth H. Fairfield" <Kenneth.H.Fairfield@intel.com.nospam> & Subject: Re: mount problems on cluster0 Message-ID: <3C589938.CCBA395D@intel.com.nospam>   Rob Buxton wrote:   E > I've tried to cater for the eventuality (pretty remote here) that IiF > might have actaully removed one of the disks that normally comprises2 > the Shadow Set from the HSD - e.g. disk failure.9 > Other Cluster Members would see the reduced Shadow Set.f >iD > So, if the Shadow Set only had one Member at the time of the AlphaF > Booting I want it to be able to successfully mount the Single MemberH > Shadow Set and not trip up trying to mount a disk that's not currently > available to anything. >e% > So, in Summary my com file is like.sG > If both devices exist mount the 2 disk shadow set - normal operation.wG > If only one devices exists, mount a single disk shadow set using that.	 > device.w  F     Seems to me that's (potentially) dangerous, mounting a single disk< if you can't see the other...partitioned clusters and all...  D     What we had done was to specify only a single member of a multi-D member shadow set and use /INCLUDE/NOCOPY as qualifiers on the mountB command/  The /INCLUDE assures that the 2nd member gets mounted ifH it is available and/or already a shadow member and/or the shadow set had= been dismounted normally.  The /NOCOPY assures that you won't = accidently mount both members but choose the WRONG one as thehG shadow master.  For example, one member is dismounted or the connectionT@ to it fails (controller, cable, whatever).  Later, the remaining> member(s) is(are) dismounted (cluster shutdown, power failure,C whatever).  You repair the connection to the first member, boot theA? cluster, and viola!, you mount the repaired, out-of-date membero> first, it's selected as the shadow master, and the data on the$ "current" member is overwritten. :-(  A     As various members being mounted served from another VMS hosta@ rather than the HSD, I really don't know what you do about that.C When in this state, does SHOW DEV/FUL show an "Alternate Host Name"r@ and if so, is it the HSD?  If so, just use SET PREFERRED_PATH to= force it to be served by the HSD (and appear as "Host Name").-       -Ken --6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield.! F20 Automation VMS System Supportr kenneth.h.fairfield#intel.com.   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 08:21:16 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r& Subject: Re: mount problems on cluster3 Message-ID: <O$pIHMyZ1eAR@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  V In article <0sY58.2263$A3.10473@typhoon.bart.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> writes:J > Putting hardware related/dependent commands outside SYSTARTUP_VMS is notJ > a smart move IMO. If it fails you have no MINimal boot option to recover > whatever wentD > wrong.  8    Sure you do.  I've minimal booted systems many times D    (startup_p1 = "min") without sylogicals.com causing any problems.C    All my hard disk mounts are in sylogicals.com.  There is also a nD    set noon at the top of both sylogicals.com and systartup_vms.com >    which help get the system up despite errors, not to mention?    appropriate lexical checks on the disks I'm trying to mount.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:26:29 -08002' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>eL Subject: Re: OpenVMS efficiency with running the same process multiple times+ Message-ID: <3C597035.9CCD10CE@caltech.edu>3   Bob Koehler wrote: > < >       2) they do not need to tie up disk space with a copy7 >          in each image file for images linked to themr  P And this can be a HUGE difference.  This was a while back and I'm a little fuzzy onO the exact values but when I ported Xforms to VMS the demo applications were alli a coupleK of thousand blocks when was each linked statically and typically only 20-70n blocks when linked to O shared libraries.  There were a LOT of these demo programs.  The difference was[	 somethingII like 50 Mb worth of disk space.  Note too that any OS that has a "shared"o equivalent (Unix, Windows,) maybe MacOSX) will have this advantage.  e  H The downside is that upgrading that shared library carelessly will break everything linked to it.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:49:46 -0800 (PST)r. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>U Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)E@ Message-ID: <20020131114946.76012.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>  0 This is not a justification for the lack of this+ feature in Alphas. We have Proliants runing=2 Lotus Notes (which dont have for Tru64 or OpenVMS) and Terminal Server./ In Proliants is possible to detect a bad memoryu( slot - in Alphas probably it will crash.4 What I am tryin to say - after Tandem aquistion the 3 Proliants are much more evoluted than my Alpha 4100i0 was. I dont know about ES40 - I will receive one in three months.  2 And the memory was changed by a Compaq technician.. He didnt remeber the positions of the menmory.  0 So, read the news at CNET about Alphas becoming . Itanium. The future is to have OpenVMS running in "PC cases" in two years.   + Proliants have the Remote Insight Board but . Alphas dont have a similar - even HP machines  have the Lan Console  5 I think Alphaserver developers were worried about the 1 processor itself and dindt improve the managemente facilities in these machines.l     FC  / --- Rich Jordan <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote:-6 > Most sites that have gone to the effort  and cost of > installing an Alphan1 > have made the effort to properly document theirF > system setup on hardcopy (a 0 > system bible) stored in a safe place.  Typical > lowbrow haphazard wintel2 > installers, of course, should not be expected to > take such pains for what is 0 > after all a temporary commodity box.  Thus new > features must be added too6 > allow for the shortcomings inherent in the allegedly > technical subclass2 > known as 'pc technicians' and the entire mindset > surrounding the commodityt > computer world.j >  >   > Fabio Cardoso wrote in message >b7 <20020130111857.60334.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>....' > >We have  Proliants here at Petrobrast" > >and its management software can& > >display the memory slots (hardware) > >What decadence for Alphas..._ > >l
 > >Regards > >e > >Fco > >a > >l > >  >  >      =====  ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - BrazilP fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! t http://auctions.yahoo.comm   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:27:51 -0500h+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com>bU Subject: RE: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)gT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF401AB1C02@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Fabio --  ( re: COTS management of OpenVMS Servers -  
 Check out:E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/mgmt_agents/index.htmls  B http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/availman/index.html  0 And for console mgmt: a few 3rd party solutions: http://www.consoleworks.comn5 http://www.heroix.com/products/detail_robocentral.htmt   Regards,    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantk Compaq Canada Corp.  Professional Services  Voice: 613-592-4660i Fax  :  819-772-7036 Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com     -----Original Message-----5 From: Fabio Cardoso [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]  Sent: January 31, 2002 6:50 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComsC Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas was (Re: Alphaserver 4100:n physical memory)    0 This is not a justification for the lack of this+ feature in Alphas. We have Proliants runing,2 Lotus Notes (which dont have for Tru64 or OpenVMS) and Terminal Server./ In Proliants is possible to detect a bad memorye( slot - in Alphas probably it will crash.6 What I am tryin to say - after Tandem aquistion the=203 Proliants are much more evoluted than my Alpha 410000 was. I dont know about ES40 - I will receive one in three months.  2 And the memory was changed by a Compaq technician.. He didnt remeber the positions of the menmory.  2 So, read the news at CNET about Alphas becoming=20. Itanium. The future is to have OpenVMS running in "PC cases" in two years.=20  + Proliants have the Remote Insight Board but 0 Alphas dont have a similar - even HP machines=20 have the Lan Console  5 I think Alphaserver developers were worried about the 1 processor itself and dindt improve the managementm facilities in these machines.?     FC  / --- Rich Jordan <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote:?6 > Most sites that have gone to the effort  and cost of > installing an Alpha 1 > have made the effort to properly document their  > system setup on hardcopy (a 0 > system bible) stored in a safe place.  Typical > lowbrow haphazard wintel2 > installers, of course, should not be expected to > take such pains for what isr0 > after all a temporary commodity box.  Thus new > features must be added to 6 > allow for the shortcomings inherent in the allegedly > technical subclass2 > known as 'pc technicians' and the entire mindset > surrounding the commoditys > computer world.  >=20 >=20  > Fabio Cardoso wrote in message >n7 <20020130111857.60334.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>...a' > >We have  Proliants here at PetrobrasA" > >and its management software can& > >display the memory slots (hardware) > >What decadence for Alphas...p > >?
 > >Regards > >a > >Fcg > >- > >r > >o >=20 >=20     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D.L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3Du Fabio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazile fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.brL =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3DI  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?5 Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!=20  http://auctions.yahoo.com    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 06:26:53 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)U Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)=< Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201310626.b2f9c78@posting.google.com>  v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20020131114946.76012.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...2 > This is not a justification for the lack of this- > feature in Alphas. We have Proliants runingT4 > Lotus Notes (which dont have for Tru64 or OpenVMS) > and Terminal Server.1 > In Proliants is possible to detect a bad memoryk* > slot - in Alphas probably it will crash.6 > What I am tryin to say - after Tandem aquistion the 5 > Proliants are much more evoluted than my Alpha 4100"2 > was. I dont know about ES40 - I will receive one > in three months. > 4 > And the memory was changed by a Compaq technician.0 > He didnt remeber the positions of the menmory. > 2 > So, read the news at CNET about Alphas becoming 0 > Itanium. The future is to have OpenVMS running > in "PC cases" in two years.  > - > Proliants have the Remote Insight Board butn0 > Alphas dont have a similar - even HP machines  > have the Lan Console > 7 > I think Alphaserver developers were worried about thee3 > processor itself and dindt improve the managementv > facilities in these machines.$ >   L hardware is only as good as the software that runs on it ... vms on proliant- would be good, windoze on a proliant is ugly!v   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:15:10 -0500r2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)U Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)iJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-3101020815100001@1cust41.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  F In article <20020131114946.76012.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio) Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:J  1 >This is not a justification for the lack of thise, >feature in Alphas. We have Proliants runing3 >Lotus Notes (which dont have for Tru64 or OpenVMS)  >and Terminal Server. 0 >In Proliants is possible to detect a bad memory) >slot - in Alphas probably it will crash.-  H Alpha systems tend to have extensive coverage for memory faults.  If badJ memory is detected before the OS starts to use it, it will be reported andG not used.  If the memory is in use, VMS will commit suicide rather than 7 risk continuing when it can't be sure its data is good.   5 >What I am tryin to say - after Tandem aquistion the o4 >Proliants are much more evoluted than my Alpha 41001 >was. I dont know about ES40 - I will receive one= >in three months.e >l3 >And the memory was changed by a Compaq technician.o/ >He didnt remeber the positions of the menmory.    He should have written it down.o  1 >So, read the news at CNET about Alphas becoming h/ >Itanium. The future is to have OpenVMS runningw >in "PC cases" in two years. ) > , >Proliants have the Remote Insight Board but/ >Alphas dont have a similar - even HP machines T >have the Lan Consolea >o6 >I think Alphaserver developers were worried about the2 >processor itself and dindt improve the management >facilities in these machines.  $ I think you are wrong on this point.  G You will notice a lot of improvments in the ES 40 compared to the (old)dE Alpha 4100.  (How could the Alpha 4100 have benfitted from the TandemdF acquisition?  Wasn't it designed pre-compaq?)  The newer ES45 provides still more.c  B As I mentioned, to get the most of the available configuration/FRUF information in the newer alphas, you have to use the supported tools. C You're complaining about an older system.  With the right tool, youoH _might_ get the memory info you want for an alpha 4100 -- I said I don'tG know this system well.  But the tool would not be just VMS; the console A and (potentially) layered management tools have the most detailedtH knowledge in this area.  This should not be a surprise.  VMS runs on topB of a WAY smarter console than the PC boxes provide, and one of theD functions of the alpha console has always been to shield the OS fromI platform-specific details.  In short, VMS doesn't know this stuff becauseoJ it's never needed to know it.  So the tools never evolved inside VMS.  For3 good or ill, they live out in layered-product land.s  I I don't know what "Remote Insight Board" is, so I can't speculate on what"< alpha systems might or might not include this functionality.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 07:49:59 -0800 (PST)h. From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>U Subject: RE: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory)g@ Message-ID: <20020131154959.16510.qmail@web20202.mail.yahoo.com>   Kerryw  0 I need something like the Compaq Survey software* which runs in Proliants with Windows 2000.     Regards      FC  0 --- "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@Compaq.com> wrote:	 > Fabio -e > * > re: COTS management of OpenVMS Servers - >  > Check out: > E http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/mgmt_agents/index.htmlL >  >rB http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/availman/index.html > 2 > And for console mgmt: a few 3rd party solutions: > http://www.consoleworks.com- >-5 http://www.heroix.com/products/detail_robocentral.htm0 > 
 > Regards, >  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultantj > Compaq Canada Corp." > Professional Services  > Voice: 613-592-4660C > Fax  :  819-772-7036 > Email: Kerry.Main@Compaq.com >  >  > -----Original Message----- > From: Fabio Cardoso # > [mailto:fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br]e  > Sent: January 31, 2002 6:50 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas was (Re:o > Alphaserver 4100:b > physical memory) >  > 2 > This is not a justification for the lack of this- > feature in Alphas. We have Proliants runingi4 > Lotus Notes (which dont have for Tru64 or OpenVMS) > and Terminal Server.1 > In Proliants is possible to detect a bad memory2* > slot - in Alphas probably it will crash.6 > What I am tryin to say - after Tandem aquistion the 5 > Proliants are much more evoluted than my Alpha 4100a2 > was. I dont know about ES40 - I will receive one > in three months. > 4 > And the memory was changed by a Compaq technician.0 > He didnt remeber the positions of the menmory. > 2 > So, read the news at CNET about Alphas becoming 0 > Itanium. The future is to have OpenVMS running > in "PC cases" in two years.  > - > Proliants have the Remote Insight Board butf0 > Alphas dont have a similar - even HP machines  > have the Lan Console > 3 > I think Alphaserver developers were worried abouto > thee3 > processor itself and dindt improve the management  > facilities in these machines.n >  >  > FC > 1 > --- Rich Jordan <rjordan@mindspring.com> wrote:s5 > > Most sites that have gone to the effort  and costS > of > > installing an Alpha 3 > > have made the effort to properly document theiro > > system setup on hardcopy (ae2 > > system bible) stored in a safe place.  Typical > > lowbrow haphazard wintel4 > > installers, of course, should not be expected to > > take such pains for what isr2 > > after all a temporary commodity box.  Thus new > > features must be added ton. > > allow for the shortcomings inherent in the > allegedlyC > > technical subclass4 > > known as 'pc technicians' and the entire mindset > > surrounding the commodityi > > computer world.a > >  > > " > > Fabio Cardoso wrote in message > >n > 7 <20020130111857.60334.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>...y) > > >We have  Proliants here at Petrobrase$ > > >and its management software can( > > >display the memory slots (hardware)! > > >What decadence for Alphas...  > > >r > > >Regards > > >i > > >Fcr > > >a > > >m > > >( > >  > >  >  >  > =====r > ========================== > Fabio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilp > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?5 > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! V > http://auctions.yahoo.com,     =====o ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil  fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! d http://auctions.yahoo.come   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:10:31 -0800 (PST) . From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>Y Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory) memo@ Message-ID: <20020131181031.92087.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>  2 You cannot deny that in a few years OpenVMS, Linux+ and WNT or similar will run in the same boxu* concurrently. Sharing the same hardware ! , Intel problems were not their processors but$ the bad developed operating systems.   Regardds   Fc    6 --- Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net> wrote:2 > And after Windows self-destructs what does your 0 > PC tell you about it's hardware configuration? >  > Fabio Cardoso wrote: > > ( > > We have  Proliants here at Petrobras# > > and its management software can ' > > display the memory slots (hardware)   > > What decadence for Alphas... > >  > > Regardso > >  > > Fc > > 4 > > --- Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com>
 > > wrote: > > > In article > > >  > >0 >65 <20020129105714.37464.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>,u > > > Fabioe/ > > > Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:t > > >m > > >s6 > > > Please (if possible) turn off "quoted-printable" > > > encoding!  > > >e > > > >Kenneth > > > >i > > > >In one machine I have > > > >h > > > >System Configuration: > > > >--------------------- > > > >System Information:0 > > > >System Type    AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB	 > > > =20w > > > >Primary CPU ID 00( > > > >Cycle Time     1.6 nsec (598 MHz)	 > > > =20n > > > >Pagesize       8192 Bytet > > > >d > > > >Memory Configuration:6 > > > >Cluster    PFN Start    PFN Count         Range > > > >(MByte)        Usagef5 > > > > #00             0          256         0.0 MBe > -t	 > > > =20a > > > >2.0 MB    Console5 > > > > #01           256       524023         2.0 MBh > -=20 > > > >4095.9 MB    System5 > > > > #02        524279            9      4095.9 MBk > -=20 > > > >4096.0 MB    Console, > > >i > > >g1 > > > This shows only the coarsest view of memory-$ > > > allocation between the console4 > > > and the OS.  Nothing about the physical layout > in > > > the slots. > > >e6 > > > I don't think there is a general way to get this > > > information that works3 > > > across all alpha platforms.  It's a low-level  > detail > > > of the hardware, and3 > > > many schemes have been used.  The OS does notu > need > > > to know the physical$ > > > layout, and AFAIK it does not. > > >s5 > > > The console does not necessarily know about thep > > > slots either.  Console5 > > > firmware sizes and tests the memory, but it hast > a  > > > "logical" view, not ap4 > > > slot-based view.  Sometimes these differ.  For > > > example, on a DEC 6 > > > 3000-400/500/600/700/800/900 system, the console > > > displays twice as many4 > > > "logical" memory banks as the actual number of > > > physical memory options.5 > > > In these systems, a memory option consists of 8  > > > DIMMs grouped a certainn2 > > > way in the slots.  A logical memory bank, as > > > displayed by the console,e6 > > > turns out to consist of all the memory on 1 side > of > > > all 8 DIMMs.  If there5 > > > are memory chips on the other side of the DIMMs  > > > (they come in both2 > > > varieties), those chips make another logical > bank.t > > > So on a DEC 4 > > > 3000-400/600/700, there are 4 logical banks, 2 > > > physical memory kits, andm3 > > > 16 DIMM slots.  On a 3000-500/800/900, doublea > alle > > > these numbers. Memoryr5 > > > controller hardware obviously knows how to sorte > this > > > out, but the console0 > > > simply probes addresses and deduces what's	 > presents > > > from the response of6 > > > the memory subsystem.  The console builds memory > > > descriptor tables for then2 > > > OS to access, and that is approximately what > CLUE > > > CONFIG is showing you  > > > above. > > > * > > > For the DEC 3000 models, the "system > programmer's > > > manual" has been5 > > > available around the web; it details the memoryo > > > subsystem, and reveals3 > > > that there are memory descriptor registers in_ > the  > > > hardware.  A program3 > > > could map these registers into virtual memory= > and= > > > get enough information- > > > from them to figure out the memory slot  > occupancya > > > -- but the program1 > > > wouldn't work on any other system.  Similar_	 > manuals_ > > > probably exist for all5 > > > the alpha systems, but I suspect they are neveri > seen > > > outside of DigipaQ.- > > >-3 > > > If you want more detail about how the console  > andK > > > the OS discuss memory,5 > > > look in the Internals and Data Structures book;p > IIRC > > > the structures hange5 > > > off the HWRPB somewhere.  But this won't answere > thee > > > original question. > > > 6 > > > The best (available source of information for an > > > alpha system is likely ton2 > > > be the service guide, which is typically not	 > shippeda > > > with a new system,2 > > > but is orderable.  The part number should be > > > referenced in the owner'so2 > > > guide.  These documents should tell you what > memory > > > configurations are3 > > > allowed and how the slots are grouped.  Afterr > that,l > > > you will likely need0 > > > to open up the box and see what is already# > > > installed, unless someone was-. > > > wise enough to write it down previously. > > > 5 > > > Sometimes the memory capacity of a system grows. > > > after the manuals aree, > > > written, as bigger memory chips become > available. > > > On some systems, the5 > > > memory subsystem is designed to work with thesee > > > future possibilities, butw1 > > > such overcapacity configurations may not beS > tested > > > and documented for the3 > > > outside world to know about them.  The systemr > will > > > either see the memoryT5 > > > or it won't; power supply considerations can bed > more
 > > > subtle.a > > >n+ > > > On newer alpha systems, there is somer > infrastructure > > > to descibe the "fieldo2 > > > replaceable units" (FRUs) in a system.  When > such a > > > description is5 > > > available, it likely includes individual memory  > > > modules, but not6 > > > necessarily the groups of modules that make up a > > > "kit" of memory.  Again,6 > > > this stuff is generally hanging around the HWRPB > > > somewhere, but is notr. > > > documented. Tools such as Compaq Analyze > (shudder)d > > > are available that can6 > > > likely find this information and translate it to > > > English. > > >o, > > > I'm not particularly familiar with the
 > Alphaservers > > > 4100.  I don't know 0 > > > what it has in the area of FRU information	 > lurkingm > > > within its dustier datam > > > structures.  > > 	 > > =====c > > ========================== > > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > > OpenVMS System Manager > > Rio de Janeiro - Brazilf > > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > > ========================== > > 6 > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!?6 > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > > http://auctions.yahoo.comt     =====t ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazil. fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?3 Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! R http://auctions.yahoo.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:32:38 +0000D1 From: Robert DiRosario <rdirosario@starpower.net>uY Subject: Re: Proliant better than Alphas  was (Re: Alphaserver 4100: physical memory) mema- Message-ID: <3C592B56.AA33A367@starpower.net>D  0 And after Windows self-destructs what does your . PC tell you about it's hardware configuration?   Fabio Cardoso wrote: > & > We have  Proliants here at Petrobras! > and its management software can % > display the memory slots (hardware)  > What decadence for Alphas... > 	 > Regardsi >  > Fc > 2 > --- Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> > wrote: > > In article > >a7 > <20020129105714.37464.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>,i	 > > Fabioo- > > Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:w > >i > >s4 > > Please (if possible) turn off "quoted-printable"
 > > encoding!h > >  > > >Kenneth > > >o > > >In one machine I have > > >p > > >System Configuration: > > >--------------------- > > >System Information:. > > >System Type    AlphaServer 4100 5/600 8MB > > =20  > > >Primary CPU ID 00& > > >Cycle Time     1.6 nsec (598 MHz) > > =20I > > >Pagesize       8192 Byte  > > >o > > >Memory Configuration:4 > > >Cluster    PFN Start    PFN Count         Range > > >(MByte)        Usagee5 > > > #00             0          256         0.0 MB -g > > =20o > > >2.0 MB    Console8 > > > #01           256       524023         2.0 MB -=20 > > >4095.9 MB    System8 > > > #02        524279            9      4095.9 MB -=20 > > >4096.0 MB    Consolet > >a > > / > > This shows only the coarsest view of memoryn" > > allocation between the console5 > > and the OS.  Nothing about the physical layout inl > > the slots. > >w4 > > I don't think there is a general way to get this > > information that works8 > > across all alpha platforms.  It's a low-level detail > > of the hardware, and6 > > many schemes have been used.  The OS does not need > > to know the physical" > > layout, and AFAIK it does not. > >,3 > > The console does not necessarily know about ther > > slots either.  Console5 > > firmware sizes and tests the memory, but it has aa > > "logical" view, not ay2 > > slot-based view.  Sometimes these differ.  For > > example, on a DECe4 > > 3000-400/500/600/700/800/900 system, the console > > displays twice as many2 > > "logical" memory banks as the actual number of > > physical memory options.3 > > In these systems, a memory option consists of 8i > > DIMMs grouped a certainh0 > > way in the slots.  A logical memory bank, as > > displayed by the console,d7 > > turns out to consist of all the memory on 1 side ofa > > all 8 DIMMs.  If there3 > > are memory chips on the other side of the DIMMs  > > (they come in both6 > > varieties), those chips make another logical bank. > > So on a DECo2 > > 3000-400/600/700, there are 4 logical banks, 2 > > physical memory kits, ande5 > > 16 DIMM slots.  On a 3000-500/800/900, double allf > > these numbers. Memory 8 > > controller hardware obviously knows how to sort this > > out, but the console6 > > simply probes addresses and deduces what's present > > from the response of4 > > the memory subsystem.  The console builds memory > > descriptor tables for thew5 > > OS to access, and that is approximately what CLUEp > > CONFIG is showing youh
 > > above. > >v5 > > For the DEC 3000 models, the "system programmer's  > > manual" has been3 > > available around the web; it details the memory  > > subsystem, and reveals5 > > that there are memory descriptor registers in thee > > hardware.  A program5 > > could map these registers into virtual memory ande > > get enough information5 > > from them to figure out the memory slot occupancyo > > -- but the program7 > > wouldn't work on any other system.  Similar manuals  > > probably exist for all8 > > the alpha systems, but I suspect they are never seen > > outside of DigipaQ.d > >t5 > > If you want more detail about how the console anda > > the OS discuss memory,8 > > look in the Internals and Data Structures book; IIRC > > the structures hangi7 > > off the HWRPB somewhere.  But this won't answer them > > original question. > > 4 > > The best (available source of information for an > > alpha system is likely ton8 > > be the service guide, which is typically not shipped > > with a new system,0 > > but is orderable.  The part number should be > > referenced in the owner's 7 > > guide.  These documents should tell you what memorye > > configurations are7 > > allowed and how the slots are grouped.  After that,  > > you will likely need. > > to open up the box and see what is already! > > installed, unless someone wast, > > wise enough to write it down previously. > >d3 > > Sometimes the memory capacity of a system grows  > > after the manuals arei5 > > written, as bigger memory chips become available.t > > On some systems, the3 > > memory subsystem is designed to work with these- > > future possibilities, but06 > > such overcapacity configurations may not be tested > > and documented for the6 > > outside world to know about them.  The system will > > either see the memoryD8 > > or it won't; power supply considerations can be more > > subtle.e > >m8 > > On newer alpha systems, there is some infrastructure > > to descibe the "field 7 > > replaceable units" (FRUs) in a system.  When such aq > > description is3 > > available, it likely includes individual memory  > > modules, but not4 > > necessarily the groups of modules that make up a > > "kit" of memory.  Again,4 > > this stuff is generally hanging around the HWRPB > > somewhere, but is nots6 > > documented. Tools such as Compaq Analyze (shudder) > > are available that can4 > > likely find this information and translate it to > > English. > >e6 > > I'm not particularly familiar with the Alphaserver > > 4100.  I don't know 6 > > what it has in the area of FRU information lurking > > within its dustier data  > > structures.  >  > =====  > ========================== > Fbio dos Santos Cardoso > OpenVMS System Manager > Rio de Janeiro - BrazilM > fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br > ========================== > 4 > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!?4 > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com    ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 06:36:56 -0800( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)1 Subject: Re: Purveyor is superior for VMS - proofl= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0201310636.7056dd67@posting.google.com>   a Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message news:<87d6zrcv9q.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...i. > Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: >  > > Paul Repacholi wrote:c- > > > JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> writes:e< > > > > Why not use the VMS standard shared images ? (.exe ) > > > L > > > They are mapped at run time with... <mumble>... that find image symbol > > > thing :) > > B > > LIB$FIND_IMAGE_SYMBOL only works on standard shareable images.G > > Nothing weird about that (except maybe the name of the function !).r > F > Just an evil thought. Remember the trick of activating another imageE > without running down the current one? ???? from NZ Gov Print posteda > how to do it, so...o > E > has anyone tried 'calling' a standard exe, not a sharable, as if it  > was a sharable?h  G isn't that what we are doing when we call from a c dll a dibol externalo subroutine exe in a library?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 01:47:37 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> 6 Subject: Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys...' Message-ID: <3C58A343.C4EAB4ED@fsi.net>s   Michael Austin wrote:  >  > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > >eO > > I've just finished the USB keyboard and mouse input decoders for X11/Motif.iM > > And while I'm in here, I think I'll actually generate something for those L > > pesky 3 extra keys on keyboards designed for windows (I'll do it for the# > > current PS2 keyboards as well).  > >aN > > But generating keycodes is one thing, deciding on what the *keysym* shouldJ > > be is another.  That is, X11 uses a set of tables that are loaded fromN > > KEYSYM files to translate the keycodes that it gets, into keysyms that the > > application uses.= > > J > > Does anyone know what, if any, is the  standard or even typical keysym1 > > mappings for these keys on random UNIX boxes?= > >=P > > The keys, BTW, are the ones that look like the flying MS Windows logo (thereP > > is a left and right) as well as the one that looks like a menu with an arrowB > > on it (i.e. like you are selecting something from a pulldown). > >MF > > The USB definitions for these are left and right GUI and "Keyboard > > Application".= > >  > > Any opinions out there?_ > I > I am not sure what all of the short cuts are using the "flying windows"!, > keys are, but my favorites in PC-land are: >  > <fw>+M == Minimize ALL NOW.e > <fw>+E == Start explorer.0   Well, F**K ME! a  6 I don't suppose any of this is documented anywhere...?   -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems4 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:22:25 -0500n1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>w6 Subject: Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys...2 Message-ID: <3C58AA61.BC5ACBA6@firstdbasource.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  <snip>   > > <fw>+M == Minimize ALL NOW.d > > <fw>+E == Start explorer.u >  > 8 > I don't suppose any of this is documented anywhere...?  E I have no clue.  My 16yr old son found them and showed me a couple oft" years ago now (when he was 13-14).   --     Regards,   Michael Austin7 First DBA Source, Inc. -- http://www.firstdbasource.com  Sr. Consultant   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:22:54 GMTt4 From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@blueyonder.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys...0 Message-ID: <3C58A575.AFCA406E@blueyonder.co.uk>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Michael Austin wrote:  > >o > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > > Q > > > I've just finished the USB keyboard and mouse input decoders for X11/Motif.-O > > > And while I'm in here, I think I'll actually generate something for thoseeN > > > pesky 3 extra keys on keyboards designed for windows (I'll do it for the% > > > current PS2 keyboards as well).g > > > P > > > But generating keycodes is one thing, deciding on what the *keysym* shouldL > > > be is another.  That is, X11 uses a set of tables that are loaded fromP > > > KEYSYM files to translate the keycodes that it gets, into keysyms that the > > > application uses.  > > >2L > > > Does anyone know what, if any, is the  standard or even typical keysym3 > > > mappings for these keys on random UNIX boxes?9 > > > R > > > The keys, BTW, are the ones that look like the flying MS Windows logo (thereR > > > is a left and right) as well as the one that looks like a menu with an arrowD > > > on it (i.e. like you are selecting something from a pulldown). > > >yH > > > The USB definitions for these are left and right GUI and "Keyboard > > > Application".  > > >a > > > Any opinions out there?  > > K > > I am not sure what all of the short cuts are using the "flying windows"s. > > keys are, but my favorites in PC-land are: > >  > > <fw>+M == Minimize ALL NOW.i > > <fw>+E == Start explorer.   N hey, I even enlightened a Windows support desk person on the minimize all one.J She was having problems finding free space to right click in the task bar.  L An ex colleague found out about <fw>+U, which brings up the Shutdown WindowsG dialog, while on a unix database upgrade spree. Its easily done, typing K <fw> U instead of control u in your terminal emulator, then return and youreK PC is shutdown. This is actually quite useful for a fast shutdown when usedsJ on purpose, but will make you think somehting is messing with your reality when encountered accidentally.    Maybe its documented, somewhere.   regardse   >  > Well, F**K ME! > 8 > I don't suppose any of this is documented anywhere...? >  > -- > David J. Dachteraa > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s   --   Tim.Llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  0  C Standard disclaimer applies. My views in no way represent those of l! my employers or service provider.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:54:24 -0000 5 From: "Robert A.M. van Lopik" <lopik@mail.telepac.pt> 6 Subject: Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys..." Message-ID: <3c5914db@news.wau.nl>   Documentation:> in Windows2000 Help: Index/ Keyboard shortcuts/displaying with keyboard/natural keyboard    htho
 rob van lopikm< "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3C58A343.C4EAB4ED@fsi.net...t > Michael Austin wrote:u > >e > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > >eF > > > I've just finished the USB keyboard and mouse input decoders for
 X11/Motif.I > > > And while I'm in here, I think I'll actually generate something forn those J > > > pesky 3 extra keys on keyboards designed for windows (I'll do it for the % > > > current PS2 keyboards as well).. > > >aI > > > But generating keycodes is one thing, deciding on what the *keysym*I shouldL > > > be is another.  That is, X11 uses a set of tables that are loaded fromL > > > KEYSYM files to translate the keycodes that it gets, into keysyms that theo > > > application uses.a > > >cL > > > Does anyone know what, if any, is the  standard or even typical keysym3 > > > mappings for these keys on random UNIX boxes?e > > > K > > > The keys, BTW, are the ones that look like the flying MS Windows logoy (thereL > > > is a left and right) as well as the one that looks like a menu with an arrowhD > > > on it (i.e. like you are selecting something from a pulldown). > > >eH > > > The USB definitions for these are left and right GUI and "Keyboard > > > Application".f > > >o > > > Any opinions out there?h > >tK > > I am not sure what all of the short cuts are using the "flying windows"p. > > keys are, but my favorites in PC-land are: > >l > > <fw>+M == Minimize ALL NOW.g > > <fw>+E == Start explorer.  >  > Well, F**K ME! >h8 > I don't suppose any of this is documented anywhere...? >  > -- > David J. Dachterag > dba DJE Systemso > http://www.djesys.com/ >m* > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:53:16 GMTb' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>e6 Subject: Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys...- Message-ID: <3C59302C.705147E0@theblakes.com>i   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  8 > I don't suppose any of this is documented anywhere...?   I found these on the web:m  /   Windows key = Displays taskbar and Start menu +   Windows key + E = Starts Windows Explorer *   Windows key + F = Finds files or folders+   Ctrl + Windows key + F = Finds a computerr)   Windows key + M = Minimizes all windowsl7   Shift + Windows key + M = Undoes Minimize All Windowsm/   Windows key + R = Displays the Run dialog boxn8   Windows key + Tab = Cycles through the taskbar buttons<   Windows key + Break = Displays the System Properties sheet   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:29:27 +0100o= From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@contrastmediagroep.nl>i6 Subject: Re: Question - those pesky MS Windows keys...5 Message-ID: <3C5938A7.5B3BD5BF@contrastmediagroep.nl>m   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  H > Does anyone know what, if any, is the  standard or even typical keysym/ > mappings for these keys on random UNIX boxes?m  G On my Linux Mandrake (V8.1) with KDE the 'windows' key does the same as= it does on windows.=   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:20:08 -0500 5 From: "Brad McCusker" <brad.mccuskerNOSP@Mcompaq.com> I Subject: Re: Questions about setting up an Advanced Server  Member Serveri1 Message-ID: <fwb68.248$am1.4696@news.cpqcorp.net>e   Ken,  H I think you need to understand and them make a distinction between localD users in the domain  database and local users in the Member Server'sE database. At the very least you need to make  that distinction in the  questions you pose below.-  L With Member Server's there are two SAM databases involved. One is the domainG wide one which is  updated by the PDC and replicated to the BDCs.  WithpI proper privileges, a member server can update and maintain the Domain SAMwD database. The other  SAM database is the local SAM database. This isK updated by the member server, and no other server sees this database, it is  not replicated.t  H To access the local database, use \\server where you might otherwise use \\Domain.  For example:n   LOGIN/DOMAIN=\\memberserveri  ( SET ADMINISTRATION/DOMAIN=\\memberserver   COMMAND/DOMAIN=\\memberserver   K The ADMIN prompt becomes \\memserv\\memserv  when logged in or Set ADMIN to A local database, so you can tell which database you are accessing.   < Some important points about ADMIN behavior on the LOCAL SAM:  K * ADD/COPY/MODIFY/REMOVE/SHOW GROUP commands will only manage local groups.S  K * Global Groups may exist in the LOCAL SAME but, they are ignored on Member  Serversy  + * ADD USER adds to the "Users" local group.   E       - Also added to Domain Users global group but not seen by users   7 * SHOW USER will only show memberships in local groups.o        - Won't show primary groupN  D * ADD/COPY/MODIFY USER will only manage memberships in local groups.  %     - Primary group is not supported.o  G I think there should be a pretty good discussion in  the docs somewhereML about Member Servers and local database,  you probably should check that out as well.  H So, with all that as background, see my comments in-line to your message below.  ? "Ken Robinson" <ken.s.robinson@exxonmobil.com> wrote in messagei2 news:Xns91A55E940D03ksrobinerenjcom@66.40.56.80...L > I'm finally able to set up a Member Server on a test network before moving > it to out Production network.f >sF > The test network consists of a NT 4.0 PDC, a few other NT boxes, andL > a DS10 running VMS 7.3 and Advanced Server 7.3 as a Member Server. On thisE > test network I have access to the NT PDC and the Admin username andb? > password. On our production network I won't have that access.s >eA > I have a few concerns and questions as the result of a few daysv > testing... >hH > 1) It seems I need access to the PDC Admin username and password to beF > able to add a local group to a local share. For the following, I was  > logged into the member server.I Can you be more explicit about "logged into the member server"?  What was  the ADMIN prompt?e  ( > I created a local group named ANSUSER.F > When I tried to create a local share, also called ANSUSER, using the? > parameters "/noperm/perm=(ansuser=full)", I got an error back D > saying "no such user or group". I then created the share using allD > defaults and it worked fine. When I went to the PDC, I was able toA > modify the share to have the above permissions with no problem.  >s  J  OK, so, you have just added the domain local group ANSUSER. Seems like itF should have worked without permission from the member server.  Can youG provide me a screen capture of what you are doing?  Can you get me some - ADMIN DEBUG output of this?  (ADMIN DEBUG LOGfL /FILE=foo.log/events=(APIDATA,CLI,CMSSTATUS,INFO) then do your commands, andG then send us the output in foo.log,  plus, a screen capture of what youF did).h  H > 2) I occassionally get prompted for a server password (I trying to pinH > down when this happens). No passwords that I know work at this prompt, > including hitting Return.d >v  H You need to distinguish between local and domain, make sure that  is not messing you up.o    E > I am trying to configure the member server to look like a currentlynG > running PW 5.0f system that is currently running on some old hardwarep8 > that's on its last legs or as close as I can get it... >l  J Then that V5 member server uses the domain's users and groups. So you willL want to keep doing that. And, I suspect at some point you will be needing toK modify the domain users and groups, so you might need admin privs. But, itsnH possible you won't. You should be able to add users and groups to shares without admin privs.  K I'm thinking now that maybe you have tried to use the member server's localo, groups when you should be using the domains.     > Thanks in advance. >i > Ken Robinson# > OpenVMS System Manager Consultants > ken.s.robinson@exxonmobil.comp > kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:17:34 +0100  From: zessin@decus.deg4 Subject: RE: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE+ Message-ID: <00A08DB8.335D925F.10@decus.de>   
 Holger wrote:bF > I have a Storageworks RAIDArray 310 (Digital SWXRA-Z1) and wanted to/ > configure it via the console port. It reportso >i > HSZ20> show this_controllers
 > Controller: 9 >         HSZ20 AY73325869 Firmware V31Z-2, Hardware  E01 , >         Not configured for dual-redundancy >         SCSI address 7 >         Time: NOT SET- > Host port:; >         SCSI target(s) (1, 2, 3, 4), No preferred targetsn) >         TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED = 10MHZ  > Cache:, >         16 megabyte write cache, version 2< >         Cache is INVALID.  Cache containing unflushed data0 >          has been removed from this controller >         Battery is LOW) >         Unknown unflushed data in cache"  C Ah, yes. Fortunately I had a manual when I had to deal with such ane error the first time...l& The command looks something like this:  I   HSZ20> clear_error this_controller invalid_cache destroy_unflushed_data   + You can find out the exact syntax this way:      HSZ20> clear_error ?  F The controller will tell you all valid options for the next parameter. Then use  &   HSZ20> clear_error this_controller ?  6 and so on. I beleive your units will have errors, too.  The command should look similar.     HSZ20> clear_error d# ?v  
 and so on.(                                      ---  % Some older manual are available from:iG http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/array-and-scsi-controllers/=  HSxuserdocs.htmlaF (URL wrapped). I beleive it's the last guide on that page, there neverI was a separate manual for the HSZ20 because the firmware ist very similar_
 to the HSZ40._   -- _
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 06:44:44 -0800 From: germanhd@usa.net (Holger) 4 Subject: Re: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE= Message-ID: <54239d74.0201310644.2350ffdb@posting.google.com>:  E Thank you for the hint with the HSZ40. On that page I found only real69 manuals for the HSZ50 but the CLI manual helped somewhat.eF Your command sequence was approved by the HSZ50 CLI manual, but didn't; help. I first removed all drives, than I decided to use theaA screwdriver method and removed the battery from the controller. IeB expected to clear the cache that way but it didn't really help. ItD just helped me to start searching for a place to get that battery. I found it here:/ http://www.portable-energy.com/prod/cell50.htmlwE BUT now the command sequence worked and the controller seems to be upt and running!$ So now I will start to configure it.D IS there any COMMAND that will reset the whole configuration and let* me start from scratch with some new disks? Very best regards  HolgerH zessin@decus.de wrote in message news:<00A08DB8.335D925F.10@decus.de>... > Holger wrote: H > > I have a Storageworks RAIDArray 310 (Digital SWXRA-Z1) and wanted to1 > > configure it via the console port. It reports  > >- > > HSZ20> show this_controllere > > Controller:2; > >         HSZ20 AY73325869 Firmware V31Z-2, Hardware  E01n. > >         Not configured for dual-redundancy > >         SCSI address 7 > >         Time: NOT SET  > > Host port:= > >         SCSI target(s) (1, 2, 3, 4), No preferred targetsi+ > >         TRANSFER_RATE_REQUESTED = 10MHZs
 > > Cache:. > >         16 megabyte write cache, version 2> > >         Cache is INVALID.  Cache containing unflushed data2 > >          has been removed from this controller > >         Battery is LOW+ > >         Unknown unflushed data in caches > E > Ah, yes. Fortunately I had a manual when I had to deal with such ani > error the first time... ( > The command looks something like this: > K >   HSZ20> clear_error this_controller invalid_cache destroy_unflushed_data= > - > You can find out the exact syntax this way:s >  >   HSZ20> clear_error ? > H > The controller will tell you all valid options for the next parameter.
 > Then use > ( >   HSZ20> clear_error this_controller ? > 8 > and so on. I beleive your units will have errors, too." > The command should look similar. >  >   HSZ20> clear_error d# ?t >  > and so on.* >                                      --- > ' > Some older manual are available from:pI > http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/array-and-scsi-controllers/a >  HSxuserdocs.htmlaH > (URL wrapped). I beleive it's the last guide on that page, there neverK > was a separate manual for the HSZ20 because the firmware ist very similar  > to the HSZ40.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:32:18 +0100r From: zessin@decus.det4 Subject: RE: Storageworks RAIDArray 310 INVLID CACHE* Message-ID: <00A08E05.B1F63674.1@decus.de>  
 Holger wrote:-G > Thank you for the hint with the HSZ40. On that page I found only real ; > manuals for the HSZ50 but the CLI manual helped somewhat.   H Oops, sorry, I didn't notice it was just the SPD. I'll see if I can find a manual in our library.  N > Your command sequence was approved by the HSZ50 CLI manual, but didn't help.   Did you get any errors?   J > I first removed all drives, than I decided to use the screwdriver methodL > and removed the battery from the controller. I expected to clear the cache% > that way but it didn't really help.   I The HS controllers leave a signature in the cache and are very picky when-$ you change components the wrong way.  G > It just helped me to start searching for a place to get that battery.e > I found it here:1 > http://www.portable-energy.com/prod/cell50.htmlgG > BUT now the command sequence worked and the controller seems to be up  > and running!  " Strange. Did you log your session?  & > So now I will start to configure it.F > IS there any COMMAND that will reset the whole configuration and let, > me start from scratch with some new disks?  ( You might have seen that the HSZ50 uses:-     SET THIS_CONTROLLER INITIAL_CONFIGURATION B Recent controllers have the 'CONFIGURATION RESET' command and someE controllers can be reset with a combination of push buttons - I don'tdE know about the HSZ20. Unless someone else can help you should be ableeC to delete any objects starting from the UNIT level and then workingt9 through the storage-set level down to the phsyical disks.    -- y
 Uwe Zessin   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 08:22:48 -08001 From: glenmark@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Glen Martin)h Subject: Re: STR$ELEMENT usage< Message-ID: <6e2f14f4.0201310822.652d5b1@posting.google.com>  E Doh! I knew that it would be something simple that I was overlooking.nA Thanks to all who pointed out that that the delimiter and elementy$ number could not be passed directly.  E As for trying to use standard C string calls, I initially started out < on that path, but it got ugly quickly. The STR$ELEMENT works8 beautifully (once the parameters are passed properly)...     Glen   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 23:22:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  Subject: Re: There must be a way- Message-ID: <87sn8meea2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>p  - "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> writes:t  A > Are you sure about this?  Don't partitions appear as additionalhB > LUN's for the SCSI ID?  That is what we see based on our SCSI to > SCSI RAID Array...  < That is doone totally inside the RAID adapter. VMS sees eachA 'partition' as a physical unit. A disk is a disk, is a disk. Even < if it is a floppy or a CD, or in this case, some thing else.  0 DOS/unix type partition are not needed with VMS.   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:42:24 -0000. From: sword7@speakeasy.org2 Subject: Re: VAX emulator model and serial numbers/ Message-ID: <u5ilugmkrv0t0a@corp.supernews.com>a  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:lG >   VAX is non-trivial to emulate -- the SRI engineers thought they hadyH >   a good emulation until it was run against the AXE tests; against theG >   VAX architecture verification test suite.  (I'd like to get the AXErI >   test suite available for folks working on the emulators, but I don't tJ >   have the cycles to pursue it right now.)   After much effort, SRI did H >   get the emulator to correctly run the VAX architecture tests.  (Bob B >   Supnik is undoubtedly quite familiar with the AXE test suite.)  J >   I won't get into bus-level emulation, as that gets really interesting.J >   The I/O timing itself is not something that could be easily emulated, J >   but OpenVMS does tend to be tolerant of odd or unexpected I/O timings.H >   As the folks writing the emulators know, getting the VAX instruction8 >   decoder to work is just part of the effort involved.  E Hmmmm. I have a copy of HCORE tests.  However, I have some problems. tJ It missed a few bugs that I ended up in my VAX emulator.  I found serious J bugs in CASEx, SKPC, and RET instructions that HCORE test missed.   HCORE J tests showed that all instructions passed instead.  Indeed, AXE test suite' is much-needed.  I am looking for that.   F About OpenVMS 7.2, I tried to boot it but it always stalls after RQDX3H initialization and units scanned (during estimated step 40 according to < VAX internal and data structure handbook).  I took a copy ofF system disk image from my PicoVAX emulator to try my VAX emulator.  ItD resulted the different.  After RQDX3 initialization and unit scannedD with interrupt enabled, it randomly read blocks from system disk as A processes were spawned or forked to read blocks in parallel ways. B Then it stalled somewhere.  I am trying to explain you about steps that my debug.log showed.   4 My debug log showed to boot installation OpenVMS CD:  
 >>> b dua1   * Loaded and run VMB * VMB loaded and run SYSBOOT] H * SYSBOOT loaded several images into memory then transferred its control   to OpenVMS to continue boot.1 * OpenVMS tested some instructions for emulation.c@ * OpenVMS announced banner information (OpenVMS version X72T...)< * OpenVMS initialized RQDX3 controller as primitive routines$ * OpenVMS loaded several more images; * OpenVMS created null job process and start its execution.wH * OpenVMS re-initialized RQDX3 controller and scanned units for existingD   medium, etc.  Also enabled interrupts during RQDX3 initialization.I * Stalled here (every few seconds, checked RQDX3 to make sure everything l   ok) forever....   E I have a copy of disk system from my PicoVAX emulator and tried that.R  - [Same results until 2nd RQDX3 initialization]uF * After 2nd RQDX3 initialization and scanned units for existing mediumB   storage, then randomly read several blocks as loading images in    parallel. H * Stalled here (every few seconds, checked RQDX3 to make sure everything   ok) forever....   B However, NetBSD/vax booted fine and I was able logged into system.  
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --  , Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.orgJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:42:52 GMTe* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)eA Message-ID: <wk868.132896$%b.8319275@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>i  > "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in message/ news:3C5845DE.CB15FA04@swissonline.delete.ch...    ...d  E > I think you are being unreasonably pessimistic about the situation.m  , And I think you're getting soft in the head.   >eH > Firstly, much of VMS is readily portable because it is in a high-levelJ > language.  The real tasks are with Macro and other uncommon beasts.  TheF > effort involved with porting is becoming less and less, or maybe the- > engineers know how to do it in their sleep.   K Yeah, right.  That's why it will take them a couple of years to complete ito0 (they probably work more slowly while sleeping).   >eJ > Second, I think a lot of the depressed sales and even defection from VMS- > are a reaction to Compaq's  handling of it.m  K Gee, do you really?  Wonder why that never occurred to the rest of us.  NowSK that we finally understand what the problem is, I'm sure that a word or twog? in the right ears at Compaq will fix it before Valentine's Day.:     People who had hoped forA > something of a revival under Compaq have now been disappointed.p   No shit.  To put it mildly.u     Three F > years and all they see is Compaq bailing out of Alpha and continuing  > wasting money in the PC arena.  L That about sums it up.  Except that recently Compaq has also been willing toK come right out and *say* that's what their plan is (rather than continue toDF lie at every opportunity).  But there still seem to be quite a few VMS+ enthusiasts out there who refuse to listen.u  #   Compaq has shown that despite thedA > rhetoric at the time of the Digital buyout, they are not reallyb. > interested in anything but the (no)Win-toys. >tJ > Third, and importantly, I'm making no assumptions about VMS staying with	 > Compaq.e  E Ah, yes:  the "*Anything* is possible, and one of those possibilitiesi- *might* not be a complete disaster" strategy.   6   There is a lot of support here for IBM to become the > foster-parent for example.  J And there was a lot of support for getting Compaq to treat VMS differentlyL as well.  Lot of good that did, and it shows just how much influence we haveL over Compaq's disposition of the product (whether in its own treatment or in+ deciding to get rid of it to someone else).t  ,   Anyone who bought VMS can be assumed to beH > enthusiastic and so having the option of moving to AMD could be a good > move.   H You really are delusional, you know.  No one has expressed the slightestI interest in buying VMS (nor is it at all clear why anyone might wish to), K nor has Compaq expressed any interest in selling it rather than milking thehK remaining customers for whatever it can get (and given what VMS returns fortH relatively minimal investment to Compaq, plus the perceived potential toI migrate VMS customers to those platforms Compaq intends to continue with,r6 it's also not clear why Compaq would wish to sell it).  >   (It also doesn't mean Intel *or* AMD but it could mean Intel
 > *AND* AMD.)e   Or maybe the tooth fairy.o   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:02:54 +0000l% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>i? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)r8 Message-ID: <tc3i5u84a48aqtddpna2pb5065641ptbmp@4ax.com>  8 On Wed, 30 Jan 02 14:04:17 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:       >L? >I'm not sure that Release 7 would work on the 2040.  That was t@ >a Model A CPU which did not do extended addressing or sections.  E To the best of my recollection no  2040s were KL-10 model "A"s. KL-10 > #2172 was the system I used to look after at Dundee College ofD Technology (DCT). Began life as a 2040 in 1976/1977 and was upgradedD in stages through to a 2060 (with maybe some power mods for a 2065).? The cpu itself was never replaced.. I thought only early DEC-10nF KL-10s  (1080?) were model A but, I admit, my memory may be hazy here.F We ran with user mode extended addressing under TOPS-20. A KL-10 modelB A could not be upgraded (without changing the cpu) as I recall but: model B (or maybe C) could be upgraded through to model E   > In fact a quick check at http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/models.txt seems to confirm my memory.t   KL features:  > Designation  PV   Boot    Cache  DTE  RH20  IO bus     Used in2 -----------  --  ------   -----  ---  ----  ------ ----------------------E 74 KL10-A    No  DECtape  Yes     1     0     Yes    1080 (uses RH10) A 74 KL10-B    No  DECtape  Yes     4     8     Yes    1090 Model-AgB 76 KL10-C    No  Floppy   Option  4     8      No    2040 Model-A, 2050 Model-AD 77 KL10-BC   No  Floppy   Yes     4     8     Yes    1090T (ARPANET)A 78 KL10-D   Yes  DECtape  Yes     4     8     Yes    1090 Model-BCE 81 KL10-E   Yes  Floppy   Option  4     8   Option   1091, 2060, 2050  Model-BS? 84 KL10-E+   PW  Floppy   Bigger  4     8   Option   1095, 2065f; 84 KL10-R  = same as KL10-E,  but in FCC approved cabinets. ; 84 KL10-R+ = same as KL10-E+, but in FCC approved cabinets.F    B >After DECnet, you couldn't boot without that extra address space. >y >/BAH  >  >> >>>e >>>/BAH  >>> * >>>Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. >> >(( >Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 09:58:06 GMTh From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)b+ Message-ID: <a3bc69$3kf$1@bob.news.rcn.net>a  5 In article <3C5845DE.CB15FA04@swissonline.delete.ch>, 5    John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote:l >t >u >Bill Todd wrote:i >> iA >> "John McLean" <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> wrote in messager2 >> news:3C583584.9EDE7283@swissonline.delete.ch... >> > >> > >> > Alan Greig wrote: >> > >	 >> > >...  >> > >J >> > > The current roadmaps show VMS continuing to be developed on the newH >> > > Intel Itanium 64 bit chip after the end of alpha development. OneK >> > > problem with this is that Intel have admired they have a backup planiJ >> > > in case this new architecture fails. Instead they will support the  AMD J >> > > Hammer 64 bit extensions to the IA32 architecture in the follow-on  to( >> > > the Pentium codenamed "Prescott". >> > >K >> > > Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedeJ >> > > beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned  ifC >> > > Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the- >> > > marketplace.2 >> >J >> > Don't forget that the current work on VMS is doing a lot to minimize  theaJ >> > hardware dependencies (or at least to gather them).  This - as I saidJ >> > weeks ago - may be the best thing about the whole exercise because itK >> > will simplify the porting of VMS ...to AMD, to Power4 (?) from IBM, ind >> > fact to any processor.  >>  J >> The question really is whether VMS will still be considered worth doingG >> *anything* with by whoever owns it should such a second migration be I >> required.  Compaq's own numbers suggest that the Alphacide cut deeply t intoK >> Alpha (including VMS) Q3 sales and that the merger discussion certainly t didwF >> nothing to help them out of their already-depressed state (Tru64 -  thoughI >> not VMS - rebounded strongly in Q4, but only to previous levels - and i thatI >> seems to have been due to a small number of large sales likely set up e some
 >> time ago).i >> mJ >> Couple depressed sales with the expressed intent of both Compaq and HP  toF >> phase out everything but Windows and Linux (and perhaps keep HP/UX  aroundI >> for a while, in HP's case) and regardless of how the merger turns out n VMSpI >> looks more and more like toast.  Can the decreasing attractiveness of   the H >> new Itanic home it hasn't yet even moved into do anything but furtherJ >> discourage people from committing to it?  One really needs rose-colored3 >> glasses to consider this a positive development.( >2D >I think you are being unreasonably pessimistic about the situation. >HG >Firstly, much of VMS is readily portable because it is in a high-level I >language.  The real tasks are with Macro and other uncommon beasts.  The E >effort involved with porting is becoming less and less, or maybe then- >engineers know how to do it in their sleep. F  A Portable???!!!  What are you talking about?  The purpose of an OSh@ is to deliver computing services to the user.  This requires the> OS to be intimately involved with the hardware.  That does notB imply portable to other hardware.  Now, the OS source organization> can be arranged such that producing an OS EXE can be dependent@ on pre-set choices.  <sheesh>  No wonder there's bloat out there@ if the running OS has to have knowledge of every exotic piece of gear that was and will be made.   A If you make it "portable", then it's just a blood app.  You don't ; put apps in the OS and expect that OS to deliver efficient  , computing to a general timesharing audience.   What has happened to this biz?   <snip other points>n   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.I   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 10:01:29 GMTe From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)-+ Message-ID: <a3bccj$3kf$2@bob.news.rcn.net>2  1 In article <Wt_58.10359$bIE.4353@news1.bloor.is>,:'    "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >s3 >"Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in messagee3 >news:ohvf5uopq7oe4gq5hu4vplbub66bq6tgpl@4ax.com...p; >> On Wed, 30 Jan 02 10:59:22 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:a >> >> >>G >> Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developediH >> beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned if? >> Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in the  >> marketplace.i >> >o  >Does Compaq really give a damn?  = Sure they do.  However, they have no idea what it takes to donA OS business.  That's the real problem.  Palmer began to dismantlea> the organization that did know how to put out a new version of  an OS--from _start_ to _finish_.   <snip>   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.s   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 10:08:06 GMT/ From: jmfbahciv@aol.comp? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)o+ Message-ID: <a3bcp1$3kf$3@bob.news.rcn.net>t  8 In article <tc3i5u84a48aqtddpna2pb5065641ptbmp@4ax.com>,)    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: 9 >On Wed, 30 Jan 02 14:04:17 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  >a >  >h >>@ >>I'm not sure that Release 7 would work on the 2040.  That was A >>a Model A CPU which did not do extended addressing or sections.  >NF >To the best of my recollection no  2040s were KL-10 model "A"s. KL-10? >#2172 was the system I used to look after at Dundee College ofsE >Technology (DCT). Began life as a 2040 in 1976/1977 and was upgradedgE >in stages through to a 2060 (with maybe some power mods for a 2065).o% >The cpu itself was never replaced..    F But your backplane was replaced (that made it a 2060, thus a Model B).C Just because they didn't move the cabinet out, doesn't mean you hadS( the exact same CPU you started with :-).     >I thought only early DEC-10G >KL-10s  (1080?) were model A but, I admit, my memory may be hazy here.g  > Nope.  Actually, I don't remember our 1080s being Model As.  A= 1080 was blue, had tall cabinets and external memory.  We hadu> two: #1026 and #1042 and later could add in a 2060 (orange) as' our third CPU to make a tri-SMP system.E      G >We ran with user mode extended addressing under TOPS-20. A KL-10 model C >A could not be upgraded (without changing the cpu) as I recall butr; >model B (or maybe C) could be upgraded through to model E e >s? >In fact a quick check at http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/models.txtr >seems to confirm my memory. > 
 >KL features:r >o? >Designation  PV   Boot    Cache  DTE  RH20  IO bus     Used in'3 >-----------  --  ------   -----  ---  ----  ------S >----------------------.F >74 KL10-A    No  DECtape  Yes     1     0     Yes    1080 (uses RH10)B >74 KL10-B    No  DECtape  Yes     4     8     Yes    1090 Model-AC >76 KL10-C    No  Floppy   Option  4     8      No    2040 Model-A,t
 >2050 Model-ArE >77 KL10-BC   No  Floppy   Yes     4     8     Yes    1090T (ARPANET) B >78 KL10-D   Yes  DECtape  Yes     4     8     Yes    1090 Model-BF >81 KL10-E   Yes  Floppy   Option  4     8   Option   1091, 2060, 2050 >Model-B@ >84 KL10-E+   PW  Floppy   Bigger  4     8   Option   1095, 2065< >84 KL10-R  = same as KL10-E,  but in FCC approved cabinets.< >84 KL10-R+ = same as KL10-E+, but in FCC approved cabinets.  C Don't get confused with all of those letters.  They were essentialsl! order numbers for our paper mill.0   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.l   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 10:10:43 GMTI From: jmfbahciv@aol.coma? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)a+ Message-ID: <a3bctt$3kf$4@bob.news.rcn.net>   , In article <3C5807A2.9FA642A5@videotron.ca>,)    JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca> wrote:m >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: F >> I don't know anything about the various flavors of Alpha.  However,B >> "retiring" old gear is not an unusual activity for an operating >> system business.  >b >l3 >However, the timing of this is such that it makes o >customers more suspicious.i  7 Yea, Compaq did keep the managers who learned how to dos: foot-shooting well.  Compaq has been making similar noises; for the last n years.  I've been deja vu'ing all over againi whenver I read this newsgroup.     /BAH    ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.e   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:41:30 +0000 (UTC)R From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)o+ Message-ID: <a3baha$hij$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>d  i In article <3C5833DE.5D3B55C8@swissonline.delete.ch>, John McLean <mcleanj@swissonline.delete.ch> writes:d >X >e >JF Mezei wrote: >> d" >> david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:M >> > True, the Dec 2000 Models 300/500 and Tadpole ALPHAbook 1 are slated forn2 >> > desupport with V7.3-1 according to the SPD on >>  P >> Is it just no longer "supported" or have they made changes known to break VMS >> on those machines ? > F >It might be something similar to the termination of MicroVax II.  TheI >problem is really one of trying to handle the smallest configuration formE >VMS all the way up to the largest, and handling the various hardwarer >that attaches to it.t >eI >For example, AUTOGEN has to allocate memory to various system activitieswG >and that allocation can get difficult if there are only a (relatively)1G >few megabytes of memory to play with.  Some of the small systems (withdF >little memory and small disks) would have serious trouble if you used >TPU on a very large file. >t  H The MicroVAX II seems to be a very odd case (The SPD actually says it isI supported under VMS 7.3 and that simultaneously that VMS 7.2 was the lasttM version to support it). There was a discussion on this earlier in comp.os.vmspM but I don't recall any definitive conclusion being reached. Suggestions as to J why it might have been dropped included requirement for CD distribution ofM newer versions of VMS. ( I thought you could use an infoserver to handle thissL as you can with some of the earlier CD less alpha systems - or in worst caseM you could always use another system to copy the CD data to appropriate media.nK Though I think I remember someone mentioning getting VMS 7.3 on media other  than CD anyway).K The other suggestion was lack of memory. However VMS 7.3 only requires 14MB(O on VAX systems according to the SPD and MicroVAX II systems could support up too 16MB.N  K Note. VMS can actually run in extremely small amounts of physical memory asmE long as you have adequate pagefile set aside. I once ran VMS 7.1 with-H Decwindows on a 4000VLC with 8MB of memory - a little bit slow but still6 usable - totally unsupported configuration of course.)    E As to disks what was the largest disk you could have in a Microvax IIlK and how many could you have ? Did the Microvax II support any external disk- connectors ?    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  .    E >At the hardware level, the older hardware has been made redundant bysH >newer stuff and I guess it is just not worth the effort to check it allI >out for so few users.  Anyone still using an RM06 disk drive, or even anA	 >RA81 ???i >dF >So it's very unlikely to be deliberate breakages.  Much more likely aA >result of growth in the size and capabilities of VMS and all thea >hardware around it. >  >V >John McLean   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:46:51 +0100 (MET)o9 From: Phillip Helbig <HELBPHI@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>r? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)w; Message-ID: <01KDQ3KD1U2S8ZJH7N@sysdev.deutsche-boerse.com>l  J > The MicroVAX II seems to be a very odd case (The SPD actually says it isF > supported under VMS 7.3 and that simultaneously that VMS 7.2 was theH > last version to support it). There was a discussion on this earlier inI > comp.os.vms but I don't recall any definitive conclusion being reached. G > Suggestions as to why it might have been dropped included requirementdI > for CD distribution of newer versions of VMS. ( I thought you could use  > an infoserver to handle this o  E If we are talking about why something is SUPPORTED or not, well, the .- InfoServer is, I believe, no longer supportedl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:29:58 +0100n. From: Dennis Grevenstein <dennis@pcde.inka.de>? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)d, Message-ID: <3C5946D6.84D5C7D8@pcde.inka.de>   Ric Werme wrote: > H > Tru64 dropped support in V5.1(?) for the original Turbochannel systemsO > which had 133-175 Mhz EV4 CPUs.  Code didn't get deleted for another release.r   5.1AI However, I thought all turbo-channel support was removed in that release.g   Dennis   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 12:00:27 GMTb From: jmfbahciv@aol.como? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) + Message-ID: <a3bjbl$q8e$2@bob.news.rcn.net>a  / In article <A_b68.8705$liz.711@news2.bloor.is>,e'    "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:o7 >If Compaq's customers have no leverage in influencing C: >the company stance, as the case seems to be, then nobody ) >outside the Board has any influence. And 7 >we all know what they are going to do sooner or later.n  < Sigh!  Think about how they define customer in their company; folklore.  To those of us who know and have experience withhB timesharing systems, we know that one VMS system is the equivalent< to thousands of PC users.  But, if they approach the VMS biz@ as one installation = one customer, you will begin to understand@ the corporate mentality.  Combine it with the emasculating trend+ of Digital's folklore, and you have a mess.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.v   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 12:05:19 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.como? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)i+ Message-ID: <a3bjko$q8e$3@bob.news.rcn.net>u  3 In article <uJM3IetAiUPg@eisner.encompasserve.org>,o1    Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:rE >In article <3gef5ukpv6i0h8of31lg15hbsb7udvnv9n@4ax.com>, Alan Greig   <a.greig@virgin.net> writes: >0D >> But interestingly the current 7,3 SPD says 7.3-1 will be the lastE >> version to support some of the earlier Alpha systems. So already apI >> plan exists to retire Alphas one by one. A large number of VAX systems.D >> are also being removed from support in the latest VAX releases as >> well. >sI >Is anyone aware of a recent release _not_working_ on such an early VAX ?t  D I'd be surprised if anybody was running a later release on old gear.B Usually, people only bother if they have to get code for new gear.   >CH >How many people were actually paying for support on such an early VAX ?L >"Support" only applies to those who pay for it.  Hobbyists get no support. G >In the VMS world, support also means they have tested on that hardware I >before shipping.  Testing on the universe of past systems gets expensives< >(do I hear an echo in here of the words "affordable VMS").   < <grin>  We (TOPS-10 group) could barely test two flavors of 5 CPU.  Actively testing all flavors would have been a h= procedural nightmare.  We would spend weeks poring over fieldm; test candidates trying to just cover all the peripherals we  were contracted to support.n     > .. How much wereK >they charging to support VMS V6 on the 11/780 ?  How many paid that rate ?e  2 My guess is $0.00 unless it was a government site.   > H >So far as I know, the VMS policy has been quite different from that forC >Tru64 Unix, where they actually removed the machine-specific code.1  9 If you notice, people are viewing mainframe business with)> PC-tinted glasses.  I suspect Compaq is making the same error.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.p   ------------------------------  ! Date: Thu, 31 Jan 02 12:09:53 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com6? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) + Message-ID: <a3bjta$q8e$4@bob.news.rcn.net>o  8 In article <ohvf5uopq7oe4gq5hu4vplbub66bq6tgpl@4ax.com>,)    Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote: 9 >On Wed, 30 Jan 02 10:59:22 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:r >m >. >>> >>That's a spin that was used 15?17 years ago when DEC started; >>its path to one OS suicide.  There is no such thing as a  ? >>mature operating system.  If it isn't continuously "evolving"n? >>to adjust to new hardware, new uses, and new features, it's as
 >>dead OS. >nD >The current roadmaps show VMS continuing to be developed on the newB >Intel Itanium 64 bit chip after the end of alpha development. OneE >problem with this is that Intel have admired they have a backup planrG >in case this new architecture fails. Instead they will support the AMDaF >Hammer 64 bit extensions to the IA32 architecture in the follow-on to" >the Pentium codenamed "Prescott".  > It sounds like the VMS people will have to arrange the OS code< (if they haven't already) so that an adjustment doesn't takeC man-centuries.  That's not difficult to do IFF contingency planningu< happens.  All of this backup planning depends on whether old? farts are kept on.  The key is in your grunt personnel (who are  also very expensive).n >dE >Unfortunately Compaq have announced that Alpha will not be developedlF >beyond the next major release (EV7) which could leave VMS marooned if= >Itanium (or The Itanic as it tend to be called) fails in thei
 >marketplace.   9 This conclusion sounds wrong to me.  If it isn't, well...n   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.o   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 09:33:10 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) 3 Message-ID: <8SXGrziFgyB+@eisner.encompasserve.org>f  L In article <a3baha$hij$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk writes: > J > The MicroVAX II seems to be a very odd case (The SPD actually says it isK > supported under VMS 7.3 and that simultaneously that VMS 7.2 was the lastgO > version to support it). There was a discussion on this earlier in comp.os.vms O > but I don't recall any definitive conclusion being reached. Suggestions as torL > why it might have been dropped included requirement for CD distribution ofO > newer versions of VMS. ( I thought you could use an infoserver to handle thisaN > as you can with some of the earlier CD less alpha systems - or in worst caseO > you could always use another system to copy the CD data to appropriate media.tM > Though I think I remember someone mentioning getting VMS 7.3 on media otheri > than CD anyway).  E    I got 7.3 on 9-track, so it must be possible.  I had CD's on my MVl'    II, so that's a solvable issue, too.n  G > As to disks what was the largest disk you could have in a Microvax IIgM > and how many could you have ? Did the Microvax II support any external diske > connectors ?  H    I had RF73's on a MV II via a KFQSA.  That's a 1GB drive, but I'm not?    sure you could boot off it.  In any case you could certainlyoD    configure an MV II as a satellite if VMS ever got to big for it's    supported disks.t  F    IIRC MV II being dropped has more to do with the manpower needed toH    test all supported configurations vs. the number of customers for the    configuration.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:52:32 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>T? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) / Message-ID: <A_b68.8705$liz.711@news2.bloor.is>   L If Compaq's customers have no leverage in influencing the company stance, asJ the case seems to be, then nobody outside the Board has any influence. And6 we all know what they are going to do sooner or later.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:55:56 -0500b% From: JF Mezei <jfmezei@videotron.ca>o? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) , Message-ID: <3C59690B.4B2D1477@videotron.ca>   david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote: L > why it might have been dropped included requirement for CD distribution of > newer versions of VMS.  K Digital had Q-BUS to SCSI adaptor for Microvax II. And there were plenty ofR 3rd party ones.   G > As to disks what was the largest disk you could have in a Microvax IInM > and how many could you have ? Did the Microvax II support any external diska > connectors ?  H Depends on your scsi adaptor. Usually just SCSI-1 so your disks might be! restricted to perhaps 1 or 2 gig.c   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:52:41 -0600 (CST)  From: sms@antinode.org? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...)e) Message-ID: <02013109524160@antinode.org>S  - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)d  H >    IIRC MV II being dropped has more to do with the manpower needed toJ >    test all supported configurations vs. the number of customers for the >    configuration.t  D    Seems likely to me.  Similar to the problem installing V7.2 (VAX)A from tape using the kit on the (Hobbyist) CD-ROM.  One file had aiI one-character error which affected installation from tape, but not disk. -E It's probably hard to justify having any paid employee go through the G ordeal of an installation from TK50 onto a slow disk on a slow system. a@ (Which is not to say that I wasn't disappointed when I found the	 problem.)u  '    Anyone know if it was fixed in V7.3?A  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)oC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)tG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)09    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)s   ------------------------------    Date: 31 Jan 2002 10:10:42 -0600- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)t? Subject: Re: Where does VMS fit in here? (Was Re: HP admits...) 3 Message-ID: <80+MwCB4qcq+@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  E In article <a3bjko$q8e$3@bob.news.rcn.net>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:t > F > I'd be surprised if anybody was running a later release on old gear.D > Usually, people only bother if they have to get code for new gear.  @    Nonsense.  I worked on lots of projects where we kept the OS,A    compilers, and such up to date.  I'm looking at installing 7.3b.    on an old system in the next couple months.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:50:39 -0500h0 From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@compaq.com>S Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com and the link "OpenVMS Solutions Status	 Matrix"r1 Message-ID: <zBe68.272$am1.4841@news.cpqcorp.net>m  L We had a huge project to contact isv's get version info etc. This was a HUGE' project just finding contact names etc.l  C If you know of an ISV who should be listed but isn't let me know ati openvms-info@remove.compaq.comK (remove the remove.) And I'll get it forwarded to the matrix raw data owner  to work.   -warren-    I "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.com> wrote in message G news:3D35AD137AAAD411A6BA0008C7B1B12D01602727@MBCALBEXC03.BENDER.COM...CB > Do we bug third party software partners to send you info on what+ > version of OpenVMS they are qualified on?  >8F > Attunity comes to mind.  They are qualified on OpenVMS 7.3, I think. > 9 > How does one get a third party software partner listed?  >8A > Vista International comes to mind at http:///www.vistacomp.com/B >e- > By the way, you are doing an excellent job!  >e > :) jck > John Koska > Matthew Bender & Co., Inc. -$ >   A Member of the LexisNexis Group > 1275 Broadway' > Albany, NY  12204l > USAo > 518-487-3255 > John.C.Koska@lexisnexis.comr >o+ > I post personal opinion only, and all ther, > disclaimers one could imagine apply.  That* > includes, I speak for myself only and my+ > views in no way represent my employer(s).:- > One should also take note of the Electronic.+ > Communications Privacy Act of 1986, whichn- > imposes civil and criminal liability on any.* > person who intentionally intercepts "any* > wire, oral or electronic communication." >o >n > > -----Original Message-----9 > > From: warren sander [mailto:warren.sander@compaq.com]u- > > Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 5:05 PMs > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComgG > > Subject: Re: www.openvms.compaq.com and the link "OpenVMS Solutionsm > > Status Matrix" > >  > >e > > OkA > > I've added the following text to all 104 pages of the matrix:s > >  > > Status Report Guidee > >j? > >  Current Versions Tab Selects OpenVMS 7.2 and 7.3 (default)H5 > >  Archive Versions Tab Selects OpenVMS 6.2 and 7.1-B > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------- > > ----: > >  Partner Name 'select' Sorts by Partner Name (default)7 > >  Applicaton Name 'select' Sorts by Application Named > >nB > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------l	 > > -----t9 > >   A - Z letters Selects Partner/Applications Starting. > > Selected Letter ('A' > > default) > >3J > > You can (and have been able to get) the report by OS version (current, > > archive) sortedn$ > > either by Partner or Application > > @ > > The A through Z letters let you select the beginning letter. > > I can't put it# > > all on one page cause there are ! > > over 800 applications listed.e > >o > > -warrent > >d > > --F > > ------------------------------------------------------------------: > > Warren Sander                        OpenVMS Marketing. > > Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:# > > warren.sander@remove.compaq.como2 > > 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal:! > > sander@remove.ma.ultranet.com 7 > > Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875o9 > >    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself 0 > >          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/F > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >  > >n > >t   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.060 ************************