1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 03 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 362       Contents:; Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA C Re: access to graphics classes from a character-based dcl procedure ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' RE: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... 
 Re: Buffer IO 	 Buffer IO 
 Re: Buffer IO ( C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix, Re: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix CMS Question Re: CMS Question RE: CMS Question( Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...( Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...( Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...& Re: DEC hostile (was re: Compaq/C....)& Re: DEC hostile (was re: Compaq/C....)$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...
 fun with pipe  Re: fun with pipe  Re: fun with pipe  Future of messaging on VMS Re: Future of messaging on VMS Re: Java file names  Re: KZTSA and AIT1 Re: Lynx & SSL
 Lynx & SSL Re: Lynx & SSL Re: Lynx & SSL MO disks on VMS? Re: parsing >255 postscript print from vms 5.4 / Re: Powerstorm 300/350 cards and OpenGL on OVMS ' Press release announcing OpenVMS V7.3-1 J Re: Removing plain text, stupidity (was: Re: VMS IO up to the level of PC)J Re: Removing plain text, stupidity (was: Re: VMS IO up to the level of PC) SMTP 8bit hack not working4 System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations
 Re: TCO study  Re: UAF questions  Re: UAF questions  Re: UAF questions  Re: Unable to ZIP a file Re: Unable to ZIP a file Re: Unable to ZIP a file Re: Unable to ZIP a file
 VMS 64bitness  Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: wow  Re: Xwindows: XDM mode Re: Xwindows: XDM mode Re: Xwindows: XDM mode Re: Xwindows: XDM mode Re: Xwindows: XDM mode  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:18:46 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATAB Message-ID: <qvjU8.518065$%y.34898834@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  / "Joe" <cstranslations@msn.com> wrote in message 7 news:d56d1c2d.0207020654.7a18768d@posting.google.com... 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message ? news:<ZvOT8.211978$_j6.10858757@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...    ...   K > > Indeed.  Next time, make more effort to understand what you read before 7 > > responding to it.  If you need more help, just ask.  >  > I read it.   That I can accept.   > I understood it.   No, you didn't.    > I have no need for any help.  C That is debatable.  But I accept that you're not interested in any.    ...   G > This is comp.os.vms. Ostensibly its purpose is to discuss the OpenVMS H > operating system. If you feel a need to discuss firearms please find a > more suitable news group.   K If *you* don't care to see this issue discussed in c.o.v., your best tactic D would be not to participate in discussing it.  As for me, I'm seldomH inclined to initiate such discussions, but will continue to feel free to" respond to them if I feel like it.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:42:01 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>L Subject: Re: access to graphics classes from a character-based dcl procedure+ Message-ID: <afse33$rvu@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:f6swajEOA2$8@eisner.encompasserve.org...    > > How do we do this? > C >    Have you tried adding a set display command to your .com file?   O It's a feature of earlier (<1.4) versions of Java that you need a Motif display O (on Unix/VMS) to intialize the graphics toolkit. As you may need it to generate K hardcopy (amongst other things), it can force you through ugly hoops in any  multi user environment.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:20:37 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...? Message-ID: <92nU8.258010$6m5.223297@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>   9 "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message ' news:874rfi2kn8.fsf@prep.synonet.com... . > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > @ > > I would be interested in where you found such a ridiculously< > > overstated (by a factor of perhaps 3) price for an ES40. > D > By putting a couple of `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it? Seems about	 > the go.   % Well, that's one way of doing it! ;-}    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:40:38 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> 0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...0 Message-ID: <afse17$htp$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:    > Hello, >  > Andrew did wrote:  >  > > > Humm, the list price of an 8 CPU V880 is ~100,000 with 16 GB: > the list price of a 4 CPU 667 Mhz 16 GB ES40 is ~180,000 > both dollars. > > Humm, the list price of an 8 CPU V880 is ~100,000 with 16 GB: > the list price of a 4 CPU 667 Mhz 16 GB ES40 is ~180,000 > both dollars.  > <<<  > C > Andrew I don't know where you buy your Suns. We must buy it by an B > F&L seller. Our Sun Fire V880 does have four (4) CPUs and (only)H > eightGB memory and did cost with F&L discount (30%) over 220.000,00DM.F > Our ES40 with four CPUs and 16GB memory did cost about 130.000,00DM.C > As you see, the Sun with four CPUs and eight GB memory did cost a D > lot more monye then the ES40. Additional eight GB Sun memory wouldC > cost about 40.000,00DM. So you will have the double price for the F > same configuration. This is our pric here in Germany and there. It's. > not marketing, it is, what we have paid for.F > Sorry, but I did know nothing about the Sun disks. There are SeagateF > 180GB disks connected to the ES40 via a LVD SCSI host adapter. I did; > measure the I/O performance with the following procedure:  >     8 I cannot comment on the differences in what you paid for8 the two systems, though it would at least on the face of9 it appear to suggest that despite claims the the contrary 7 Compaq have been offering large to very large discounts 4 something that historically people have alledged Sun does as a matter or course.   : You quote prices in DM, which went into the EURO at approx6 2 DM to the EURO, the price listed for the ES40 with a= similar config to yours equates to 191,000 EURO or 380,000 DM 9 130,000 seems a huge discount but if thats your deal with ! HP then you have a very good one.    As for the test.  9 You don't say how many controllers the V880 came with, it 8 has one FC-AL internal controller by default, nor do you7 indicate which OS you are running on the ES40 one would 2 need more information than this to make a comment.   Regards  Andrew Harrison      > 	1. Create a 10GB file. 6 > 	2. Copy them from one disk to an other connected to > 	   a different controller. 0 > 	3. Copy them from the disk to the null device >  > This is what I did test. >  > Best regards Rudolf Wingert  > H > P.S. I did test a second configuration only under OpenVMS (there is anH > tool to do so) with disk onboard write cache enabled. Then we will seeK > a great write performance to the disk. I know about the security problem. I > But we don't have any transaction processing, where we have to know the  > real state of write. >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:37:52 -0400 5 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com> 0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...2 Message-ID: <+gAiPbCoje7fWkxiHAJmlQu2r=5c@4ax.com>  E On 02 Jul 2002 23:51:23 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  wrote:  - >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > ? >> I would be interested in where you found such a ridiculously ; >> overstated (by a factor of perhaps 3) price for an ES40.  > C >By putting a couple of `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it? Seems about  >the go.  + Yes, they are rather proud of Alpha memory.    David R. Beatty    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:24:42 -0500/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> 0 Subject: RE: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...T Message-ID: <92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5EC@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  I However places like Crucial ($4,235 for 4 GB), and Kingston ($4,000 for 4 H GB) are there to help.  Yep, buy it with the minimum memory required and( then add third party to meet your needs.   EdE **Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here.**      > -----Original Message-----> > From: David Beatty [mailto:David.Beatty@qwertysasasdfgh.com]& > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:38 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... >  > G > On 02 Jul 2002 23:51:23 +0800, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>  > wrote: > / > >"Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > > A > >> I would be interested in where you found such a ridiculously = > >> overstated (by a factor of perhaps 3) price for an ES40.  > > E > >By putting a couple of `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it? Seems about 
 > >the go. > - > Yes, they are rather proud of Alpha memory.  >  > David R. Beatty  >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 20:21:15 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ..., Message-ID: <aft1vs$1trb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ? In article <92nU8.258010$6m5.223297@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, 4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |>  < |> "Paul Repacholi" <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message* |> news:874rfi2kn8.fsf@prep.synonet.com...1 |> > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  |> >C |> > > I would be interested in where you found such a ridiculously ? |> > > overstated (by a factor of perhaps 3) price for an ES40.  |> >G |> > By putting a couple of `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it? Seems about  |> > the go. |>  ( |> Well, that's one way of doing it! ;-}  F But if you don't put `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it will it in fact beB certified??  Wouldn't non-`GenUine COmpaq' anything cause problemsD getting maintenance if you have a problem later??  If so, then those prices are even more legit.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jul 2002 23:51:23 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...- Message-ID: <874rfi2kn8.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > > I would be interested in where you found such a ridiculously: > overstated (by a factor of perhaps 3) price for an ES40.  B By putting a couple of `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it? Seems about the go.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 21:33:28 GMT ( From: "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com>0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...+ Message-ID: <3D221B27.4010800@epsilon3.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:- > In article <3D2119E7.6060204@epsilon3.com>, - >  "Jay E. Morris" <jem@epsilon3.com> writes:  > |> Bob Ceculski wrote: > |>  A > |> > the same place he finds the overstated performance numbers 4 > |> > for sparky ... he pulls them out of a hat ... > |>  + > |> Funny, that's not where I wear my hat.  > ? > According to one of the VMS faithful it looks like he got his ? > numbers directly from Compaq/HP.  Kind of makes you both look  > foolish, don't you think?? >  > bill >   C Well, so did I. Unfortantly I didn't think about the price sheet I  J pulled up being GSA so I was off by 25%.  I stand corrected on this point.   --  
 Jay E. Morris  jem@epsilon3.comD ANYA: I found one of those 24-hour places for coffee. Remember that F bookstore? Well they became one of those books-and-coffee places, and ? now they're just coffee. It's like evolution, only without the   getting-better part. -----------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:43:36 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...K Message-ID: <rdeininger-0207021943360001@1cust238.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   H In article <aft1vs$1trb$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@cs.scranton.edu wrote:    G >But if you don't put `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it will it in fact be C >certified??  Wouldn't non-`GenUine COmpaq' anything cause problems E >getting maintenance if you have a problem later??  If so, then those  >prices are even more legit.  F It's not usually a problem.  If there's hardware problem and memory isH suspected, you might have to remove the non-Compaq memory temporarily toJ prove it's not the cause.  I've never heard of the system's warranty being! voided by using 3rd-party memory.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:39:55 -0400 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: Buffer IO2 Message-ID: <3D21E56B.343C896A@clarityconnect.com>  C Yes it is.  Use SYS$SHARE:DELTA, switch into k-mode and massage the F JIB$L_ORG_BYTLM, JIB$L_BYTLM & JIB$L_BYTCNT location of the JIB of the process in question.   Kenneth wrote: > E > Is it possible to change the buffer I/O limit of a running process?    --  C Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Waverly, NY 0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan+ 	- Mark.Jilson@hp.com				- since 1975 or so  	- http://www.jilly.baka.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:09:56 +0800+ From: "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com>  Subject: Buffer IO* Message-ID: <afsj89$mvk1@rain.i-cable.com>  C Is it possible to change the buffer I/O limit of a running process?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:05:13 GMT 4 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@bigfoot.com> Subject: Re: Buffer IOA Message-ID: <tXlU8.1187$2k5.906@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   G Yes, Availability Manager or the older AMDS.  Free download, no license 1 required and makes pretty pictures for managment.      --   Andy Bustamante ( remove the ascii-95's to reply by e-mail      6 "Kenneth" <yeung_kenneth@hotmail.com> wrote in message$ news:afsj89$mvk1@rain.i-cable.com...E > Is it possible to change the buffer I/O limit of a running process?  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:42:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 1 Subject: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix , Message-ID: <3D21E5FA.A6985FD0@videotron.ca>  M On VMS, one knows that the C RTL is just a subset of the vast array of system  services available.   G On the MAC, the C RTL is more or less emulated and also a subset of the K "system services" provided by the MAC (at least in the MAC OS 9 and below).   J What about for Unix ? Does the C RTL represent a small subset of availableL system services, or is it a comprehensive list of what is available with the operating system itself ?   J (I realise that there are additional libraries for the X gui etc, but I am$ talking about base system services).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 14:13:18 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>5 Subject: Re: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix . Message-ID: <3D21ED3E.99974FE8@mindspring.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   I > On the MAC, the C RTL is more or less emulated and also a subset of theJM > "system services" provided by the MAC (at least in the MAC OS 9 and below).t >sL > What about for Unix ? Does the C RTL represent a small subset of availableN > system services, or is it a comprehensive list of what is available with the > operating system itself ?n >wL > (I realise that there are additional libraries for the X gui etc, but I am& > talking about base system services).  5 Disclaimer: In answering your question, I'm likely to 0 tell you some things you already know, so please1 forgive me; I'm not attempting to insult anyone'sf
 intelligence.e  8 Firstly, there' no such concept as the "C RTL" for Unix.7 For all sorts of common things that you or I would likeM= to do, there are header files (e.g., stdio.h) that define theq: programming interfaces for these things (e.g., printf() ).5 At runtime, some of these function calls become callse8 to library routines and some become calls to the system.! And some may do a little of each.P  2 For example, sprintf() (formated "printing" into a; buffer, roughly sys$fao() ) is clearly just a library call.o2 It doesn't require the kernel for any of its work.  / By comparison, printf() (formated printing to ah3 real IO channel) may or may not require the kernel.s5 If it's just adding more text to a buffer, the kernel 3 isn't involved. But if the IO channel is unbuffered&8 or you "print" a newline (and thereby flush the buffer),6 clearly the kernel gets involved to do the actual I/O.  5 The runtime code for many of the functions comes frome9 libc, so I guess that's as closs as you get to what you'de4 call the C RTL. Certainly the stdlib.h functions are9 in this category. But lots of other headers need specific 9 libraries to be linked in in order to get access to theiry1 runtime code. For example, most of the networking 4 functions require on or more libraries be explicitly linked with the process.  2 (Naturally, the linkage can be static or dynamic.)  . Usually, the "man page" for any given function2 will mention the header file in which the function2 API definition is found, and will also mention the2 library (if any other than libc) that contains the/ run-time code for the function. There's usually - no mention of whether that function will then-1 dive down into the kernel to do part of its work.e' And the "nm" command will show you whatB4 functions are actually contained in a given library.  - The system may or may not have all the headerA3 files needed to describe the rntime functions it is13 capable of. Obviously, a system that isn't used fore- development need not have *ANY* of the header@6 files. But it certainly better have all of the runtime. files required by the programs that run on it.  + By the way, the MacOS (prior to MacOS/X) is.. substantially similar if you were using any of) the popular development environments. Andp. MacOS/X is, of course, Unix. so it's identical to what I'm describing.t   Atlant   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:02:49 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>c Subject: CMS Questiont9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEINFEAA.tom@kednos.com>l  F Is there a method for fetching all files and there various generations/ which have dates in a range from a CMS library?s ---l& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 00:32:52 GMT & From: Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> Subject: Re: CMS Question-2 Message-ID: <87it3xy6we.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  % "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:>  H > Is there a method for fetching all files and there various generations1 > which have dates in a range from a CMS library?   E The X client may provide this support, but the command line interfaceAD does not. The SHOW HISTORY command is the only one that accepts dateC qualifiers. There's either a custom CMS interface or some fancy DCLs scripting in your future.)  H What's really annoying is the date format isn't absolute, thus disabling
 sort filters.o   -- A Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 19:08:10 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: RE: CMS Question-9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJICEJDFEAA.tom@kednos.com>C  F What I ended up doing, was fetching *.* to a temporary directory wrote9 some magical emacs macros and achieved my circuitous goal1   >-----Original Message-----a% >From: jchimene@Alethion.systasis.net D >[mailto:jchimene@Alethion.systasis.net]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Chimene% >Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:33 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >Subject: Re: CMS Question >  > & >"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > I >> Is there a method for fetching all files and there various generationsS2 >> which have dates in a range from a CMS library? > F >The X client may provide this support, but the command line interfaceE >does not. The SHOW HISTORY command is the only one that accepts daterD >qualifiers. There's either a custom CMS interface or some fancy DCL >scripting in your future. >tI >What's really annoying is the date format isn't absolute, thus disablingr >sort filters. >  >--  >Microsoft Free By 2003n >C >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.e; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002h >i ---i& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 08:51:13 -0700s+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> 1 Subject: Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...a' Message-ID: <3D21CBF1.6050908@mmaz.com>    Hi Bob,P  G the problem is that this type of anonymous insider information is that nI it is more than two years too late. Everyone can see from the results of eH the Compaq purchase of Digital, it is now old news rather than prophesy E where as if this information had been substantiated back in 1999, it  E could have possibly been used against Compaq to change the course of   history not yet written...  C Just like many of us doubt the long term vision of HP with VMS, in  ; general it is hard to trust the credibility of many of the hG CEO/Presidents of the Fortune 1000 companies as of late; It seems that eH everyone has a scandal in their back pocket, so whether it is Compaq or F HP handling VMS, I do not believe the results would be much different C nor or am I willing to trust much of what they have to say. HP has rH clearly stated that they will complete the port to IPF but their vision   is obviously shallow after that.  D What needs to be accepted is that as an OS, VMS has been an awesome I product but that the owners of VMS have not and are still not willing to  F market it to the masses (I'm not talking desktop). VMS is twenty-five G years old this year and has had a solid run, regardless of its owners, yE but when folks like Compaq/HP kill the hardware that VMS runs on for  F vaporware and can only commit to product development to what 2005 and A support to 2010? It would be awfully foolish for any new non-VMS rI customer to jump onto VMS at this time so one can only surmise that much  G of this smoke and mirrors effort is to keep the existing customer base .I from jumping ship as long as possible, with as little investment on HP's uF part and seeking as great of return as possible. Hey, that's business.  E So, the real question is what type of 'best-your-business' OS's will t/ surface to handle the next twenty-five years...u   Barryt   Bob Ceculski wrote:r  @ >and if HP doesn't use their top technology right, they will end >up just like Q ...- >- >-' >How Compaq created the Digital divide 0 > % >Part I: Attack of the Texan cowboys t+ >By our EURuromole, 02/07/2002 09:08:25 BSTt >n >eF >ACCORDING TO SOURCES in Compaq Europe, as recently as year 2000 there@ >were serious internal conflicts with Compaq's buyout of Digital >Equipment."G >The buyout had occurred in June 1998 but despite CEO Eckard Pfeiffer'sdG >intentions to expand Compaq beyond being just a PC company things wereeF >still in disarray at the time of his departure in April 1999. In June@ >acting CEO Ben Rosen reorganised the European operations of theA >company on 2 July when he made a number of major appointments to-B >Compaq's EMEA Centre located near Munich. On 22 July 1999 Michael< >Capellas was appointed CEO and continued Rosen's direction. >mA >Late in 1999 a senior emissary from Houston gathered many of theEG >European staff together in Germany and told them how things were to beo >done from that time onwards.o > C >Our sources were not forthcoming with a name but given that he wasd@ >dictating policy to the high-ups in Compaq's EMEA people we canG >surmise that he was either the person in Houston that they reported toiA >or someone even more senior, which probably puts him in the mosty- >senior 10 people within Compaq's management.2 > @ >Apparently he started out by saying - bluntly and loudly -"GoodB >morning, or guten whatever you say here. I just speak English !",E >which of course is a well-known way to win friends, influence peopled/ >and generally improve international relations.n >eF >He went on to say that the Digital way was to be forgotten -- that itE >was a different company now. "The future will be PCs and NT. You canGG >forget about all those Digital products. In less than 12 months no-onerD >will remember that name." (or words to that effect). Of course this? >went down like a sack of Kartoffeln to the large contingent of  >ex-Digits that were present.  >sG >He also said that Houston would be managing EMEA directly, determininga@ >sales policy and operations, and that everyone present would beF >reporting upwards to him. The relative autonomy that Digital staff inE >each of the countries ha enjoyed was soon to be a thing of the past. G >The fact that they knew their customers and had good rapport with them<D >was irrelevant in the scheme of things; centralised EMEA was taking >over. > C >According to our sources it was made very clear that Houston would F >push PCs and that Compaq's primary, or even only, interest in DigitalG >was its extensive and loyal customer base, one that it was planning toa >convert to NT.} > A >The view of many present was that Digital's credibility in their B >professionalism and attitude to customers was to be replaced withG >something far, far inferior. The new world order was here. And Houston F >would control it, not Europe, and certainly not Digital's old base in >Boston. >yG >About this same time, following edicts from Houston, Compaq's existingeD >EMEA centre near Munich was expanded to also house these ex-DigitalE >people and it became the EMEA centre for all of Europe - and in fact-G >the EMEA region - much to the chagrin of many. A significant number ofoD >its new staff was sourced from outside Europe, which of course only >added to the dissent. >2C >By October 2000 the EMEA centre at Munich was much reduced becauseiF >most of it had moved to a site near Zurich's airport. Various reasonsG >were cited for the move including proximity to an airport and a changea@ >in the nature of the company, both of which appear to be ratherF >spurious. Any way that you look at it, the twelve-month exercise withE >a Munich base - buildings, staffing, business infrastructure - was a = >fiasco. A significant amount of money was wasted, staff werer" >demoralised, customers alienated. > B >Compaq was thrashing around, very uncertain of what it was doing.= >Compaq was a PC company who had a build-then-sell-and-forget2@ >mentality. Digital was a software company as well as a hardwareC >company, one that believed in supporting its customers in the longoF >term and thus had a solid reputation. Long time European ex-Digits inE >Compaq have spoken of the old days when long hours were common but acC >"family" attitude prevailed and everyone pitched in. They contrasteG >this with the low morale and lack of atmosphere under Compaq, but with ( >the same kinds of hours being expected. >yD >Compaq's attitude towards Digital's products was glaringly obvious,E >much to the dismay of the ex-Digital employees. Their morale was not D >improved any by what they saw as PC salesmen being promoted severalE >levels above their abilities to become influential people in the newo	 >company.b >5D >It was not at all surprising to them that Compaq's profits were lowD >and that Compaq's share price was in the doldrums and that the onlyE >major competitor with a similar range of products and services, IBM,c( >was not suffering in a similar fashion. >e >u >    >y   -- t  @ Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:11:54 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>11 Subject: Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...f> Message-ID: <_VmU8.218454$R61.78903@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  6 "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message! news:3D21CBF1.6050908@mmaz.com...n   <snip>   > VMS is twenty-fiveH > years old this year and has had a solid run, regardless of its owners,F > but when folks like Compaq/HP kill the hardware that VMS runs on forG > vaporware and can only commit to product development to what 2005 andoB > support to 2010? It would be awfully foolish for any new non-VMSJ > customer to jump onto VMS at this time so one can only surmise that muchH > of this smoke and mirrors effort is to keep the existing customer baseJ > from jumping ship as long as possible, with as little investment on HP'sH > part and seeking as great of return as possible. Hey, that's business. >iF > So, the real question is what type of 'best-your-business' OS's will1 > surface to handle the next twenty-five years...I  F Ya know, the same assertions could be made WRT the NonStop (nee TandemJ Himalaya) customer base. The NSK folks also face a migration to IPF smoke,K and thus far there has been little resistance to this "Risky Scheme." Sales.L of NonStop systems, both within the installed base and to new customers, are increasing, too.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:49:21 GMT+* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>1 Subject: Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...1C Message-ID: <5tnU8.244940$_j6.12159273@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>f  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:_VmU8.218454$R61.78903@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... >b8 > "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message# > news:3D21CBF1.6050908@mmaz.com...i >e > <snip> >  > > VMS is twenty-fiveJ > > years old this year and has had a solid run, regardless of its owners,H > > but when folks like Compaq/HP kill the hardware that VMS runs on forI > > vaporware and can only commit to product development to what 2005 and D > > support to 2010? It would be awfully foolish for any new non-VMSL > > customer to jump onto VMS at this time so one can only surmise that muchJ > > of this smoke and mirrors effort is to keep the existing customer baseL > > from jumping ship as long as possible, with as little investment on HP'sJ > > part and seeking as great of return as possible. Hey, that's business. > >eH > > So, the real question is what type of 'best-your-business' OS's will3 > > surface to handle the next twenty-five years...d >sH > Ya know, the same assertions could be made WRT the NonStop (nee TandemL > Himalaya) customer base. The NSK folks also face a migration to IPF smoke,G > and thus far there has been little resistance to this "Risky Scheme."  Sales J > of NonStop systems, both within the installed base and to new customers, arei > increasing, too.  L The combination of recently-increased risk-perception in the industry and atF least modest levels of marketing effort makes the NSK market situation? qualitatively different from that with VMS (where the increasedyJ risk-perception would matter only if the world knew that VMS still existedG and what its strengths were).  Furthermore, NSK is a sufficiently nichedB product that its continued viability depends far less on continuedI development than VMS's does:  no lesser systems that I'm aware of seem atRJ all inclined to try to jump the major technical hurdles that separate themE from NSK, while many are eagerly attempting to assimilate many of the / features that have traditionally set VMS apart.b  G Finally, in contrast to VMS's current hardware platform, MIPS processor H development roadmaps continue through at least 2005 (including dual-coreJ chips with doubled bandwidth and increased numbers of functional units perK core in 2004).  Although the question of SGI's continued viability may be arK concern, NEC fabs the processors for them so even if SGI foundered HP mighteJ have the option to continue development should the need arise.  Given thisG longer active (and currently open-ended) MIPS development lifetime pluslI quite possibly less emphasis on hardware cost/performance than VMS faces, K it's easy to find reasons why NSK's customers might feel less uncomfortableiB about the potential failure of Itanic than VMS's customers should.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:59:24 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>/ Subject: Re: DEC hostile (was re: Compaq/C....)a- Message-ID: <0033000071087403000002L032*@MHS>   ; =0A1) In more noble times, seppuku was performed not on thea    share price, but on oneself.u  ; 2) There's a parable in the New Testament about the servant ;    who, when entrusted with one talent, hid it in the earthc    instead of making use of it.o  	    WWWebb    -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET $ Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 9:20 AMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET- Subject: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...     ? and if HP doesn't use their top technology right, they will end  up just like Q ...    % How Compaq created the Digital divide   # Part I: Attack of the Texan cowboys ( By our ?uromole, 02/07/2002 09:08:25 BST    E ACCORDING TO SOURCES in Compaq Europe, as recently as year 2000 therer? were serious internal conflicts with Compaq's buyout of Digital 
 Equipment.F The buyout had occurred in June 1998 but despite CEO Eckard Pfeiffer'sF intentions to expand Compaq beyond being just a PC company things wereE still in disarray at the time of his departure in April 1999. In June ? acting CEO Ben Rosen reorganised the European operations of the @ company on 2 July when he made a number of major appointments toA Compaq's EMEA Centre located near Munich. On 22 July 1999 Michaela; Capellas was appointed CEO and continued Rosen's direction.   @ Late in 1999 a senior emissary from Houston gathered many of theF European staff together in Germany and told them how things were to be done from that time onwards.  B Our sources were not forthcoming with a name but given that he was? dictating policy to the high-ups in Compaq's EMEA people we can F surmise that he was either the person in Houston that they reported to@ or someone even more senior, which probably puts him in the most, senior 10 people within Compaq's management.  ? Apparently he started out by saying - bluntly and loudly -"GoodsA morning, or guten whatever you say here. I just speak English !",VD which of course is a well-known way to win friends, influence people. and generally improve international relations.  E He went on to say that the Digital way was to be forgotten -- that it D was a different company now. "The future will be PCs and NT. You canF forget about all those Digital products. In less than 12 months no-oneC will remember that name." (or words to that effect). Of course thisc> went down like a sack of Kartoffeln to the large contingent of ex-Digits that were present.  F He also said that Houston would be managing EMEA directly, determining? sales policy and operations, and that everyone present would betE reporting upwards to him. The relative autonomy that Digital staff in D each of the countries ha enjoyed was soon to be a thing of the past.F The fact that they knew their customers and had good rapport with themC was irrelevant in the scheme of things; centralised EMEA was taking2 over.0  B According to our sources it was made very clear that Houston wouldE push PCs and that Compaq's primary, or even only, interest in DigitalhF was its extensive and loyal customer base, one that it was planning to convert to NT.  @ The view of many present was that Digital's credibility in theirA professionalism and attitude to customers was to be replaced withtF something far, far inferior. The new world order was here. And HoustonE would control it, not Europe, and certainly not Digital's old base in  Boston."  F About this same time, following edicts from Houston, Compaq's existingC EMEA centre near Munich was expanded to also house these ex-DigitalrD people and it became the EMEA centre for all of Europe - and in factF the EMEA region - much to the chagrin of many. A significant number ofC its new staff was sourced from outside Europe, which of course onlyC added to the dissent.n  B By October 2000 the EMEA centre at Munich was much reduced becauseE most of it had moved to a site near Zurich's airport. Various reasons F were cited for the move including proximity to an airport and a change? in the nature of the company, both of which appear to be rather E spurious. Any way that you look at it, the twelve-month exercise withiD a Munich base - buildings, staffing, business infrastructure - was a< fiasco. A significant amount of money was wasted, staff were! demoralised, customers alienated./  A Compaq was thrashing around, very uncertain of what it was doing.1< Compaq was a PC company who had a build-then-sell-and-forget? mentality. Digital was a software company as well as a hardwareCB company, one that believed in supporting its customers in the longE term and thus had a solid reputation. Long time European ex-Digits inoD Compaq have spoken of the old days when long hours were common but aB "family" attitude prevailed and everyone pitched in. They contrastF this with the low morale and lack of atmosphere under Compaq, but with' the same kinds of hours being expected.e  C Compaq's attitude towards Digital's products was glaringly obvious,tD much to the dismay of the ex-Digital employees. Their morale was notC improved any by what they saw as PC salesmen being promoted severalcD levels above their abilities to become influential people in the new company.  C It was not at all surprising to them that Compaq's profits were loweC and that Compaq's share price was in the doldrums and that the onlywD major competitor with a similar range of products and services, IBM,( was not suffering in a similar fashion.=   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 20:24:05 GMTa1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e/ Subject: Re: DEC hostile (was re: Compaq/C....) , Message-ID: <aft255$1trb$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <0033000071087403000002L032*@MHS>,a-  WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:n |>> |> 2) There's a parable in the New Testament about the servant> |>    who, when entrusted with one talent, hid it in the earth" |>    instead of making use of it.  8 Yes, but he didn't get rewarded with a golden parachute.   bill   -- MJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:24:20 GMTb0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... 9 Message-ID: <3d21d399.2045345781@proxy.news.easynews.com>l  4 On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:57:25 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:i  L >Probability factor (er, likelihood) that VMS will boot on IPF in 1H02: 0.013 >Likelihood that VMS will boot on IPF in 2H02: 0.99mL >Likelihood that SRI-supplied Alpha-->IPF VMS binary translator will support
 >PL/1 apps: 0y   All reasonable predictions  M >Likelihood that VMS will end up being more portable (to other architectures)i >as a result of IPF port: 0.99  @ I don't see anything going on that will significantly change the: difficulty of porting VMS to other hardware architectures.  F VMS still carries around its neck the dual albatrosses of tons of code= in VAX MACRO and BLISS, and last time I looked the proportiona@ of the former was still growing relative to code in BLISS and C.@ There is still no concerted effort to rewrite the VAX MACRO into@ a HLL, and effort IMO that should have been started 15 years ago and finished a decade ago.
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:06:56 GMTh* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... C Message-ID: <kRmU8.575142$Oa1.36407276@bin8.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>n  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message 3 news:3d21d4b8.2045632984@proxy.news.easynews.com...l   ...a  D > VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.  It's a 32-bit environment with a; > few 64-bit extensions.  As are the IA32-based NT variantsi > such as Win2K and WinXP.  L Not having had any actual contact with VMS since long before Alpha appeared,H I'm in no position to contradict you.  But I had the distinct impressionI that VMS now supported processes executing in a true 64-bit address spaceeI (which NT and its successors on IA32 most certainly do not), using 64-bite5 general-purpose registers (which IA32 does not have).   I Now, before Windows 95 appeared, Windows 3.1 (essentially a purely 16-bitiG operating system) supported 32-bit applications and GPRs on 80386/80486gJ processors via the 'Win32s' interface, so VMS *could* be doing the same onJ Alpha (and IIRC may initially have done just that).  But my impression wasE that VMS *today* does not internally run Alpha in its 32-bit mode (asgH AlphaNT did), even though many of its internal structures still may haveC 32-bit fields where 64-bit fields might have been used had the codeEL originated in a 64-bit environment - i.e., that VMS now runs internally as a? 64-bit system as well as being able to run 64-bit applications.o   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:32:12 GMTa0 From: prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... 9 Message-ID: <3d21d4b8.2045632984@proxy.news.easynews.com>e  4 On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:31:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:    >d. >"Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message0 >news:afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... >>2 >> Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then? >EI >Hardly, since it's a 64-bit operating environment. You can, however, runn/ >VAX/VMS on IA32 via the Charon-VAX translator.n  B VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.  It's a 32-bit environment with a9 few 64-bit extensions.  As are the IA32-based NT variantso such as Win2K and WinXP.  @ The biggest barriers to putting VMS on IA32 would be developmentA of a MACRO-32 compiler targeting IA32 and device drivers for IA32ZC peripherals.  The former isn't all that big a job since GEM alreadyp
 targets IA32.a  E There are really no technical problems, just business ones.  Digital, = Compaq, and now HP are running VMS as a cash cow.  They don'te? care about growing the VMS market, just extracting $$$ from theeA installed base.  Retargeting to IA32 would be a major engineeringwA investment with dubious payback prospects.  If you believe in them future of Itanium, of course.u  > A 64-bit port to the Hammer architecture would be anintriguing@ prospect that it might make sense for HP to pursue at least as a3 fallback in case Itanium doesn't make it after all.e  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:35:57 GMTC1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>e- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...a> Message-ID: <NDkU8.217694$R61.78977@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>  = "Paul Winalski" <prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com> wrote in message 3 news:3d21d399.2045345781@proxy.news.easynews.com...r6 > On Fri, 28 Jun 2002 23:57:25 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"! > <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:e >TI > >Probability factor (er, likelihood) that VMS will boot on IPF in 1H02:r 0.015 > >Likelihood that VMS will boot on IPF in 2H02: 0.99eF > >Likelihood that SRI-supplied Alpha-->IPF VMS binary translator will supporth > >PL/1 apps: 0t >e > All reasonable predictions >p@ > >Likelihood that VMS will end up being more portable (to other architectures)  > >as a result of IPF port: 0.99 >sB > I don't see anything going on that will significantly change the< > difficulty of porting VMS to other hardware architectures. > H > VMS still carries around its neck the dual albatrosses of tons of code? > in VAX MACRO and BLISS, and last time I looked the proportion B > of the former was still growing relative to code in BLISS and C.B > There is still no concerted effort to rewrite the VAX MACRO intoB > a HLL, and effort IMO that should have been started 15 years ago > and finished a decade ago.    H I am told that some of these albatrosses are being dealt with in the IPF port.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:23:14 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>r- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...pG Message-ID: <6klU8.13457$VQO1.678@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>l  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:3roT8.198806$nZ3.95308@rwcrnsc53... >  >tH > Possible, but IMHO unlikely. Now that the merger's done and everyone'sH > slithered out of the clean rooms, the VMS folks have established tight tiesH > with their HP counterparts in HP-UX, HP Labs, firmware engineers. GoodK > access to code, project plans, test tools, developer working groups, etc.o AtJ > least from the perspective of the ZKO folks, HP is serious about the VMS	 > effort.e  K The likelihood of survival for OpenVMS and NSK is inversely proportional toiJ the number of former Compaqians (as opposed to former DEC'ies) who slither7 their way into real influence (titles notwithstanding).n     > I > The VMS Boot Camp/Immersion Course has a cost in terms of resources and- $$$.K > While the investment is admittedly modest, at least HP is willing to makes< > it. Was such a course offered in the pre-acquisition days?  L It's nice that HP is making this effort. But that's sort of like saying thatI it's nice to have your left thumb released from the thumbscrew while more8J pressure is being applied to the right-hand one. It would be even nicer ifL this was done in a manner that generated some publicity in the trade rags toE demonstrate to the Armani crowd and other nay-sayers that HP is trulyr3 interested in *GROWING* the OpenVMS installed base.p  J But then again that means selling to *new* (the word that's banned in PaloK Alto) customers. So far there's been no significant sign that a strategy toa% sell to new customers is forthcoming.       I > > It is only when they see the potential dollar value (to them) of VMS,tK > > etc. that they will embrace "diversity" and seek to exploit for fun andj' > > profit that which they already own.l >lK > Every new Windows security vulnerability will help the HP Honchos see theyH > light, especially with the increased emphasis on security and business > continuity these days.  D http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=eQ130EWfyD0E4J0oWZ0Aw  J When HP salespeople go into customers and the first questions they ask areI "Is security and reliability your key concern?", then we'll know that thetF corner has been turned. Until that time, so long as they go in pushingL Proliant/Netserver and Windows Server, or unix garbage....I'm not holding my breath.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:34:28 -0400s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...iK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0207021934280001@1cust238.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>r  9 In article <3d21d399.2045345781@proxy.news.easynews.com>,s1 prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote:     A >I don't see anything going on that will significantly change theu; >difficulty of porting VMS to other hardware architectures.a >eG >VMS still carries around its neck the dual albatrosses of tons of codet> >in VAX MACRO and BLISS, and last time I looked the proportionA >of the former was still growing relative to code in BLISS and C.aA >There is still no concerted effort to rewrite the VAX MACRO intoPA >a HLL, and effort IMO that should have been started 15 years agoi >and finished a decade ago.h  I I don't agree.  To port to some other platform, compilers are needed.  HP4I already has front ends that know all these languages.  A new architectureNF would require a code generator, but 3 front ends are almost as easy to. connect to a code generator as 1 front end is.  E VAX MACRO, Bliss, and C are just compiled languages.  None of them ise inherently unportable.  J The porting obstacles are the pieces of code (in all these languages) thatE explicitly depend on hardware or firmware features.  Those pieces arelI being found and either replaced or isolated to small, encapsulated chunks  during the current port.  G Example:  The bulk of the alpha PALcode is being replaced with OS-basedWE code to do the same work.  Most code that calls PALcode won't have to E change, and what does change will be written to the new API.  For theiH (hypothetical) next VMS port, the "PALcode" implementation would have toG be reimplemented, but there would not be another round of tweeks in theh upper layers of the OS.e  B Alpha assembly code is being replaced, but not much of it is being replaced by IPF assembly code.  J Modules are being rewritten (mostly into C) piecemeal, when there seems to! be a clear advantage to doing so.e  I It's pretty clear that the work of re-coding all the Bliss and Macro (and C ...) into C would far exceed the work of building IPF compilers andh leaving the source code alone.  G There is a significant change between this port and the last one.  Last I time, they ported TO alpha, with significant alpha-specific bits all overSC the place.  They made a decision to maintain separate source pools.r  G This time, the target of the port is more generic, with a firm layer ofoF platform-hiding code between the hardware and the bulk of the OS.  AndJ source code will be (mainly) common between alpha and IPF.  This is partlyI because VMS has no influence on future IPF chip design (unlike alpha) ando* reduced influence on future system design.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:17:39 -0700, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: fun with pipe4 Message-ID: <aft1p5$h67g1$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  E Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider thiss example:  $ $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched  $ sho log/output=junk.dath $ search junk.dat x11g   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE"  J Huh?  If I search for something closer to the "top" of the list of logical namest it works fine.  * $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input tapelabel   "TAPELABEL" = "21" $ sho log /output=junk.dat $ search junk.dat tapelabels   "TAPELABEL" = "21"  J The only difference I can see is that X11 is on line 1360 in junk.dat (and
 in the outputy= from show log).  But TAPELABEL is on line 298.  VMS v7.2-1h1.w   Jimo   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:22:46 -0400n1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Re: fun with pipe2 Message-ID: <3D2219A6.6063F479@firstdbasource.com>   James Gessling wrote:o > G > Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider thish
 > example: > & > $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchedr > $ sho log/output=junk.dath > $ search junk.dat x11s >   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE" > L > Huh?  If I search for something closer to the "top" of the list of logical > namest > it works fine. > , > $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input tapelabel >   "TAPELABEL" = "21" > $ sho log /output=junk.dat > $ search junk.dat tapelabel  >   "TAPELABEL" = "21" > L > The only difference I can see is that X11 is on line 1360 in junk.dat (and > in the output ? > from show log).  But TAPELABEL is on line 298.  VMS v7.2-1h1.v >  > Jimh  + What version/platform of VMS are you using"i   $! TEST_PIPE.COM $cnt = 1 $loop:8 $ define/system zzlogical'cnt' "This is a test for these	 logicals"n  $if cnt .eq. 1500 then goto more $cnt = cnt+1
 $goto loop $more:$ $write sys$output "Result of PIPE: ", $pipe sh log | search sys$Input zzlogical999 $sh log /out=mytmp.tmp;i- $write sys$output "Result of SEARCH/NUMBER: "t# $sear mytmp.tmp zzlogical999/number  $del mytmp.tmp;* $unloop: $ on severe_error then continues $ deas /system zzlogical'cnt'  $ cnt = cnt -1 $if cnt .eq. 0 then exit $goto unloop   RESULTS: $ @test_loge Result of PIPE:e6   "ZZLOGICAL999" = "This is a test for these logicals" Result of SEARCH/NUMBER:>   1819    "ZZLOGICAL999" = "This is a test for these logicals"    < The things we go through to make sure you are doing what you think you are doing... :)O -- r Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163n7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comp                          t+ http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmle/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:29:38 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: fun with pipe, Message-ID: <3D226F9B.849F8CD0@videotron.ca>   James Gessling wrote:a > G > Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider this 
 > example: > & > $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11) > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchedp > $ sho log/output=junk.datp > $ search junk.dat x11h >   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE"  M This was discussed some time ago. It is a "feature" of show logical and other K programs whose output exceeds the buffer size of the device created by pipeoK for interprocess communications so parts of the output don't make it to the 4 other process as the output "packet" gets truncated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 00:30:40 -0400v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p# Subject: Future of messaging on VMSd, Message-ID: <3D227DE4.EC7DC8BA@videotron.ca>  L Having been screwed because I invested in messaging infrastructure which wasI abandonned by Digital/Compaq/HP, I want to know where I should go next tosC reduce the risk that the carpet will be pulled from under me again.t  B Does VMS engineering have any plans to further develop the VMSmailN infrastructure, especially the SMTP gateways ? Or should those not be used forI any long term plans and one should rely on their own gateways or some 3rdB party ?a  - PMDF may be nice, but it is mighty expensive.C  D Are there any chances that PMDF/Process would be purchased by HP andG integrated into VMS which woudl then gain a single , better developped,t messaging backbone ?  L Will the VMSmail X-interface be improved for better handling of attachements/ etc ? What about the character cell interface ?   L With rumours of IMAP server making it to VMSmail, I am curious as to whetherN VMSmail's storage architecture is something one could build on or whether that7 architecture is too simple to build anything serious ? i  
 Comments ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 06:54:19 +0100#( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>' Subject: Re: Future of messaging on VMSu) Message-ID: <3D22918B.C28056F0@127.0.0.1>p   JF Mezei wrote:n > N > Having been screwed because I invested in messaging infrastructure which wasK > abandonned by Digital/Compaq/HP, I want to know where I should go next to E > reduce the risk that the carpet will be pulled from under me again.l > D > Does VMS engineering have any plans to further develop the VMSmailP > infrastructure, especially the SMTP gateways ? Or should those not be used forK > any long term plans and one should rely on their own gateways or some 3rdL	 > party ?h > / > PMDF may be nice, but it is mighty expensive.i  C MX is nice and cheaper. Its from the same stable as PMDF I believe.g   http://www.madgoat.com/   nF > Are there any chances that PMDF/Process would be purchased by HP andI > integrated into VMS which woudl then gain a single , better developped,X > messaging backbone ? > N > Will the VMSmail X-interface be improved for better handling of attachements1 > etc ? What about the character cell interface ?t > N > With rumours of IMAP server making it to VMSmail, I am curious as to whetherP > VMSmail's storage architecture is something one could build on or whether that8 > architecture is too simple to build anything serious ?  E Friend of mine has been testing the IMAP server under TCPIP 5.3 and I:H believe he's quite happy with it. FOund the odd wrinkle but that's field9 testing for you. Perhaps if he's listening he'll comment?n  H I'm also quite happy that VMS mailing interfaces are pretty removed fromE the Windoze. Not having to use Outlook is a bonus for me when reading-E mail. I had to drop a note the other night to a poor guy who's system F was obviously badly infected with the rate he was sending me payloads.   -- i? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Scienceso nclews at csc dot comd   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 15:13:51 -0700i$ From: sammy_thumbs@yahoo.com (Chuck) Subject: Re: Java file names= Message-ID: <55c497a4.0207021413.25224008@posting.google.com>r  " Thanks for all the help everybody.  F I apologize for not posting more of the code and just a small snippet;B the actual program was far more complicated.  I thought that all I? needed was to demonstrate that the command line input was beinggA changed to use unix style path when what I needed was to keep theBD original string from the command line, which it does, as long as the file doesn't really exist.  : I started experimenting using the different options in theD JAVA$FILENAME_CONTROLS.COM, but we have the classpath defined on the& system using the unix style filenames.  ? So in this odd case, what I really need is to do something like < $java -cp ".:/javalibrary/myclasses/specialjar.jar:" "hello" "bbling:test.err"-> keeping the unix style for the classpath and leaving the input parameter as is.  F Really, it's not that big an issue, as long as the programmer is awareA that the input parameter will be changed if it can be mapped to a0C valid filename.  I was just hoping there was just an easy option to B fix it that I could put in our java$seutp.com, thereby saving some? other programmer the grief of tracking this down in the future.S  D Actually, we are using 1.3.0 and there is no push to switch to 1.3.1E yet, but it looks like the filename controls are very similar to whatr we're using now.   Chuck6       "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607DB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...  > Chuck, > I > >>> The problem is that it's converted to a Unix style path, which thenr( > fails when trying to open the file.<<< >  > As a fyi - > > > Pointer to current version (V1.3.1-3) online release notes :J > http://www.compaq.com/java/documentation/1.3.1/ovms/docs/RELEASE NOTES.H > TML#UNIX STYLE+ > "UNIX Style Filenames on OpenVMS Systems"e > J > http://www.compaq.com/java/documentation/1.3.1/ovms/docs/RELEASE NOTES.H > TMLt  > (Main release notes home page) > 	 > Regardsn >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant. > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Services4 > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----. > From: Chuck [mailto:sammy thumbs@yahoo.com]  > Sent: July 1, 2002 6:38 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml > Subject: Java file names >  > J > Quick question about java on openVMS.  I'm trying to pass in a file nameJ > on the command line.  The problem is that it's converted to a Unix styleJ > path, which then fails when trying to open the file.  I need to keep the6 > unix paths included (I can't just remove it from theH > java$setup.com) for other jar's and zip's to work.  Is there a fix for? > this? (aside from writing special code to do the conversion).  >  >  >  > $ OpenVMS V7.3 > $ java -versionl > java version "1.3.0"2 > Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard EditionC > Classic VM (build 1.3.0-1, 04/12/2001-12:42, native threads, jit)s > 
 > sample codeh >  > public class hello > {e, >     public static void main(String[] args) >     {n4 >         System.out.println("Filename " + args[0]); >      } > }  >  > $ show log bblingo1 >   "BBLING" = "AD35:[DD.GA2]" (LNM$SYSTEM TABLE)h" > $ java "hello" "bbling:test.err" > Filename /bbling/test.erru >  > ChuckM > sammy thumbs@yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 20:09:53 -0400a' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>e Subject: Re: KZTSA and AIT1a< Message-ID: <howard-1C78A9.20095302072002@enews.newsguy.com>   In article  @ <rdeininger-0207020824110001@1cust235.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,4  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) wrote:  L > Nope.  Sorry. If the power is within the limits of a TC slot, you might be > able to rig something up.-   Got it.a    A > Note -- the DWZZx modules are just passive converters, not SCSIrK > controllers.  They just connect two different types of SCSI bus together.O   Understood.  Thanks.    I > There are a couple of flavors of PMAZ module, but they are SE narrow.  s  G Yeah, that's what I found on my searching today.  No big deal.  It was OI just to test the tape drive once.  I was going to do a BACKUP/VERIFY and e see what the results were.   -- t# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  I hope you have good backups! ) Are there any more networked SJFs around?    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 16:18:39 GMTe/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>s Subject: Re: Lynx & SSLf* Message-ID: <afsjov$ev6$1@news1.Radix.Net>   grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu wrote:nD > It has been quite a while, but I did succeed in building lynx with2 > openSSL.  Here are the notes I made at the time:  K >  I was able to build LYNX 2.8.3 with OpenSSL 0.9.5A by changing the buildtG >  procedure.  The required changes were to force the MULTINET build to,I >  use UCX emulation mode.  This required changing two DESCRIP.MMS files.e   ...iH > Note that, at least at that time, there were some patches which neededD > to be downloaded. These don't exist at that site any more, and may > not be necessary, anyway.u  D The patches were integrated with lynx - but none referred to the VMS8 build scripts.  They affect a half-dozen of the C files.  I > The biggest problem I had was that the build procedures and code workedP7 > only with UCX and UCX emulation, not Multinet native.   K I suppose that's possible - but the files affected don't appear to have any O VMS-specific ifdef's.  I might be able to offer advice, given the correspondinga compiler or linker logs.  L >> I downloaded and installed OpenSSL 0.9.7-beta2 and thought I could use itM >> together with Lynx 2.8.4rel.1 . But how to I tell Lynx that I have OpenSSLiP >> installed? There is nothing in LYNX.CFG and nothing in USERDEFS.H . All I canP >> see is the constant USE_SSL, but how do I define it the proper way under VMS?  O Most of my experience with this is via the configure script (too complicated to/N explain here).  But the top-level makefile.msc file in the current developmentI version does have comparable definitions commented-out.  I added those ina) January, and have built it using OpenSSL.l  $ The current version of lynx is 2.8.4   It's available at  	ftp://lynx.isc.org/lynx-2.8.4 2.8.5 Development & patches:' 	http://lynx.isc.org/current/index.htmly   -- h= Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>1 http://dickey.his.comd ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 12:59:41 GMTi3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)n Subject: Lynx & SSLt0 Message-ID: <afs83t$n5h$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>   Hello,  I I downloaded and installed OpenSSL 0.9.7-beta2 and thought I could use ityJ together with Lynx 2.8.4rel.1 . But how to I tell Lynx that I have OpenSSLM installed? There is nothing in LYNX.CFG and nothing in USERDEFS.H . All I caneM see is the constant USE_SSL, but how do I define it the proper way under VMS?o   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannw  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 02 11:37:57 EDT  From: grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu Subject: Re: Lynx & SSLe/ Message-ID: <j8u++ultWsfA@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>h  B It has been quite a while, but I did succeed in building lynx with0 openSSL.  Here are the notes I made at the time:  I  I was able to build LYNX 2.8.3 with OpenSSL 0.9.5A by changing the builduE  procedure.  The required changes were to force the MULTINET build toiG  use UCX emulation mode.  This required changing two DESCRIP.MMS files.l    In [.LYNX2-8-3]DESCRIP.MMSe3    Inside the 'option .eq. "MULTINET"' check, added.    option = "UCX"e    optfile = "MULTINET_UCX.OPT"e  *  and creating MULTINET_UCX.OPT containing:0  multinet_root:[multinet.library]ucx$ipc/library  +  In [.LYNX2-8-3.WWW.LIBRARY.VMS]DESCRIP.MMSeA    Inside the '.ifdef MULTINET', comment out "TCP = MULTINET" andb    and "TCP = UCX"    then, change CFLAGS to beL   "/decc/Prefix=All $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DCFLAGS) /Define=($(EXTRADEFINES), UCX)"  I  Once these changes were made, the sources which had been built by addingoK  the http://www.moxienet.com patches to the 2.8.3 distribution worked fine.   F Note that, at least at that time, there were some patches which neededB to be downloaded. These don't exist at that site any more, and may not be necessary, anyway.i  G The biggest problem I had was that the build procedures and code workedp5 only with UCX and UCX emulation, not Multinet native.e   Hope this helps.  f In article <afs83t$n5h$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: > Hello, > K > I downloaded and installed OpenSSL 0.9.7-beta2 and thought I could use itFL > together with Lynx 2.8.4rel.1 . But how to I tell Lynx that I have OpenSSLO > installed? There is nothing in LYNX.CFG and nothing in USERDEFS.H . All I canJO > see is the constant USE_SSL, but how do I define it the proper way under VMS?$ > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanne > J > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+J > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |J > | Immunbiologie                                                        |J > | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |J > | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |J > +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 16:03:19 GMT13 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)r Subject: Re: Lynx & SSLB0 Message-ID: <afsis7$rcg$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  P In article <j8u++ultWsfA@mcduck.acs.wmich.edu>, grant@rigel.cc.wmich.edu writes:C >It has been quite a while, but I did succeed in building lynx withs1 >openSSL.  Here are the notes I made at the time:a > J > I was able to build LYNX 2.8.3 with OpenSSL 0.9.5A by changing the buildF > procedure.  The required changes were to force the MULTINET build toH > use UCX emulation mode.  This required changing two DESCRIP.MMS files. >  > In [.LYNX2-8-3]DESCRIP.MMS4 >   Inside the 'option .eq. "MULTINET"' check, added >   option = "UCX"  >   optfile = "MULTINET_UCX.OPT" >e+ > and creating MULTINET_UCX.OPT containing:e1 > multinet_root:[multinet.library]ucx$ipc/library  >h, > In [.LYNX2-8-3.WWW.LIBRARY.VMS]DESCRIP.MMSB >   Inside the '.ifdef MULTINET', comment out "TCP = MULTINET" and >   and "TCP = UCX"i >   then, change CFLAGS to betM >  "/decc/Prefix=All $(DEBUGFLAGS) $(DCFLAGS) /Define=($(EXTRADEFINES), UCX)"  > J > Once these changes were made, the sources which had been built by addingL > the http://www.moxienet.com patches to the 2.8.3 distribution worked fine. >sG >Note that, at least at that time, there were some patches which neededwC >to be downloaded. These don't exist at that site any more, and mayz >not be necessary, anyway. >tH >The biggest problem I had was that the build procedures and code worked6 >only with UCX and UCX emulation, not Multinet native.  I No I succeeded in compiling and linking Lynx with SSL. What I did so far:nH 1.  Modified BUILD.COM and LIBMAKE.COM to add "USE_SSL,USE_OPENSSL_INCL"&     to each "/DEFINE=(...)"-statement.4 2.  Modified the LINK command in BUILD.COM and added-        ssllib:libssl/LIB,ssllib:libcrypto/LIBg<     at the end. The order of the two libraries is mandatory!	 3.  Added         typedef int pid_t;       to the beginning of HTTP.C .  7 But I cannot make any https-connections. What I get is:n<     Alert!: Unable to make secure connection to remote host.  K Why? Do I have to configure OpenSSL or create any certificates or the like?b@ All I did was what is mentioned in INSTALL.VMS, including tests.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann-  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 12:12:34 -0400* From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <stan@stanq.com> Subject: MO disks on VMS?f- Message-ID: <3D2198B2.29539.A7E202@localhost>c  < I need to read some 230 MB magneto-optical disks.  I have a > VAXstation 4000-60 and a DPWS 500au available, and a range of ( operating systems from VMS 5.5-2 to 7.3.  < Any recommendations on a drive to buy?  What works with VMS?    
 --Stan Quayle ! President, Quayle Consulting Inc.3  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671n1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147q= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 10:28:18 -0400g( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: parsing >255i, Message-ID: <3D21B882.2030606@tsoft-inc.com>   JOUKJ wrote:  ( > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > H >> Jouk wrote (in response to Guy Peleg's saying that DCL command limit  >> is being increased):  >> >>E >>> Good that will certainly help. But why cannot the command string cJ >>> length not be allocated dynamically upon its need? Probably I will go J >>> over this 8192 bytes easily when link complicated programs using many F >>> objects in many different directories. Now I split up because the < >>> 1024 limitation, but sometimes I need more than 8 parts. >> >> >>H >> Just a thought, why not use OLBs.  I doubt that you have each object ! >> file in a different directory.s >>J >> This should also speed up linking as an .OLB is only one file to open,  >> versus each .OBJ. >>K > But you need the double diskspace, because you have to keep both the obj u > and olb on disk.    T If you have the object in a library, why do you still need the separate object file?    F > I wonder how efficient OLB's of a couple of GBytes are, not only on K > OpenVMS but also on other platforms since I like my makefiles except for i( > the prolog to be platform independent. >  >              Jouk  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:07:48 +1000s From: pam@rsc.anu.edu.au (pam)& Subject: postscript print from vms 5.44 Message-ID: <pam-0307021507480001@petris.anu.edu.au>  F I need to print postscript files to a postscript printer on one of the& serial ports on a vax running vms 5.4.  C I don't really need to print anything else except postscript files.t  ; Does anybody know where I can find the commands to do this.M  J I have so far been able to send postscript commands to the printer and getH a pretty picture out but I haven't been able to get a postscript file to+ print on the printer through a print queue.c   thanks very much   pamh -- uN pam cohen                                                   pam@rsc.anu.edu.au
 it manager research school of chemistryC the australian national university            (tel) +61-2-6125 4089tF canberra, act 0200, australia                    (fax) +61-2-6125 0750   ------------------------------    Date: 03 Jul 2002 00:05:04 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>8 Subject: Re: Powerstorm 300/350 cards and OpenGL on OVMS- Message-ID: <87znxa15fz.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  : > In article <3D2088AF.2DCC8B53@caltech.edu>, David Mathog > <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:    < > >Have a look at the cards Xi supports on Linux or the many> > >OpenGL cards supported on Windows. We've been experimenting< > >with a Radeon 8500 using the Xi driver on Linux and it is: > >_incredibly_ fast and the whole system was about $1600.  m? > I believe VMS support for the Radeon 8500 is in the pipeline.5  C 8500 or 7500? The 7500 is due to go into Field test from a previoush post.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 21:09:13 GMTt0 From: "Matt Muggeridge" <Matt.Muggeridge@hp.com>0 Subject: Press release announcing OpenVMS V7.3-1A Message-ID: <ZDoU8.385678$o66.1045746@news-server.bigpond.net.au>   B I've been on vacation so this may be late or may be duplicated.  IH remembered reading a post asking about features in OpenVMS V7.3-1, but I> couldn't find the post.  Here is a press release on the topic:  9      http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/25jun02b.htms  ! I have reproduced the text below.t   Matt.tL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----C HP Unveils Enhanced OpenVMS Operating System that is e-Business andr Internet-ready  PALO ALTO, Calif., June 25, 2002    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  E HP (NYSE:HPQ) today released an enhanced OpenVMS operating system for H AlphaServers that is e-business and Internet-ready. The HP OpenVMS AlphaF V7.3-1 has features unmatched by the competition and delivers the highG levels of reliability, availability and scalability required by today's  demanding applications.t  F HP OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 delivers enhanced OpenVMS Storage Area NetworkD offerings, improved system availability, improvements in I/O and SMPJ performance, enhanced security, expanded ability to port UNIX applicationsF to OpenVMS and enhanced TCP/IP stack for extended interoperability and performance.  > New features and enhancements to the operating system include:    D Extended failover capability to served devices in an OpenVMS clusterD environment -- extends device failover to served devices, as well asG directly attached devices. This eliminates single points of failure for  served devices.     J Fibre channel performance enhancements -- new features such as distributedG interrupts and interrupt coalescing, as well as reductions in I/O Lock8VG usage, providing two times the I/O throughput on fibre channel over theo previous release.     G Multipath tapes on fibre channel -- provides multipath capabilities fora, fibre channel tapes to help reduce downtime.    A Performance improvements for applications running on SMP systems.p    I Expanded security with more authentication options -- integrated Kerberos'H support and simplified authentication through the new SYS$ACM interface.    I Industry standard encryption options -- OpenSSL (Secure Socket Layer) andoL the Common Data Security Architecture (CDSA) provide the cryptographic tools3 and utilities needed to deploy secure applications.v    I UNIX portability enhancements -- enhancements in the CRTL and file systeml6 make porting UNIX applications to OpenVMS much easier.    E Compaq Secure Web Browser (CSWB) -- the supported browser for OpenVMSgI AlphaServer systems based on Mozilla, an open-source Web browser designedl6 for standards compliance, performance and portability.    L Graphic Configuration Manager (GCM) for OpenVMS -- a portable, client/serverG application that provides a visual means of viewing and controlling theuL configuration of partitioned AlphaServer systems running OpenVMS which helps% overall management of the partitions.-    L Enhanced OpenVMS support for StorageWorks enterprise-class MSA solutions andK SANWorks software solutions -- including EVM and new VersaStor virtualizing  adapter.  G Some competitive advantages of the OpenVMS environment include: OpenVMShL Galaxy which provides dynamic reconfiguration without rebooting; significantL flexibility with partitioning and multiple operating systems supported; highE availability features such as online repair and clustering for 24x365aJ computing; total conversion to 64-bit functionality for more than a decadeJ while some competitors are still migrating; seamless interoperability withK Microsoft Windows NT; and the availability of thousands of commercial andu freeware applications.  H "This release of the OpenVMS operating system, the highest quality ever,H continues to lead the competition," said Mark Gorham, vice president, HPL OpenVMS Software Group. "It is further evidence of HP's long-term commitmentC to the millions of users around the world who value and require theuI performance and the expanded mission-critical capabilities from OpenVMS."t  I HP OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1 is expected to be available worldwide in July andLH will be shipping on all new HP AlphaServer DS, ES and GS series systems.   About HP  H HP is a leading global provider of products, technologies, solutions andE services to consumers and businesses. The company's offerings span ITeJ infrastructure, personal computing and access devices, global services andJ imaging and printing. HP completed its merger transaction involving CompaqJ Computer Corp. on May 3, 2002. The company would have had combined revenueG on a pro forma basis with the Compaq transaction of approximately $81.1eJ billion in fiscal 2001 and has operations in more than 160 countries. More7 information about HP is available at http://www.hp.com.i      L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  J Microsoft and Windows NT are U.S. registered trademarks of Microsoft Corp.      L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----  I This news release contains forward-looking statements that involve risks,iF uncertainties and assumptions. All statements other than statements ofC historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward-lookingtH statements. Risks, uncertainties and assumptions include the possibilityE that the market for the sale of certain products and services may notdL develop as expected; that development of these products and services may notK proceed as planned; and other risks that are described from time to time infJ HP's Securities and Exchange Commission reports, including but not limitedK to HP's annual report on Form 10-K, as amended on January 30, 2002, for themJ fiscal year ended October 31, 2001, HP's quarterly report on Form 10-Q forL the quarter ended January 31, 2002 (as filed with the SEC on March 12, 2002)F and subsequently filed reports. If any of these risks or uncertaintiesG materializes or any of these assumptions proves incorrect, HP's results F could differ materially from HP's expectations in these statements. HPI assumes no obligation and does not intend to update these forward-looking  statements.L   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 19:13:24 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)S Subject: Re: Removing plain text, stupidity (was: Re: VMS IO up to the level of PC)-K Message-ID: <rdeininger-0207021913240001@1cust238.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>i  8 In article <afs8gg$vdp$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote:   J >I tried to scan firmware release notes to check which models have supportH >for KZPEA. But they've done an UNBELIEVABLY STUPID THING to not deliver* >firmware docs as text files any more! :-(   I agree completely.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 22:41:14 -0500aC From: "Craig A. Berry" <craig.berry@nospam.SignalTreeSolutions.com>RS Subject: Re: Removing plain text, stupidity (was: Re: VMS IO up to the level of PC) H Message-ID: <craig.berry-9F628D.22411402072002@news.directvinternet.com>  : > In article <afs8gg$vdp$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala! > <kujala@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote:u > L > >I tried to scan firmware release notes to check which models have supportJ > >for KZPEA. But they've done an UNBELIEVABLY STUPID THING to not deliver, > >firmware docs as text files any more! :-(  , Be that as it may, it's easy enough to go to  $ <http://askq.compaq.com/askopenvms/>  D and type "kzpea" in the box.  The first two hits will give you your F answer.  Specifically, SRM v6.0 or later is required and the XP900 is D the oldest supported system.  Moreover, when placed in a 433au, the G card is considered a foreign object and the firmware refuses to start, UG probably because (I think) firmware 5.9 was the last for these systems.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:58:38 +0000 (UTC)* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)# Subject: SMTP 8bit hack not workinga0 Message-ID: <aftb6u$jg2$1@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  E Hi, it's me again, again about the SMTP package.  I'm running OpenVMScC AXP V7.1-2 and TCPIP V5.1 ECO 4.  I am having a problem using 8-bite characters.e  C I have the EIGHT_BIT option set on the SMTP configuration, and I'veeD defined the system logical name TCPIP$SMTP_8BITMIME_HACK to be "1". D this, according to the documentation, should be enough.  I made sureD to restart the SMTP service after changing the EIGHT_BIT setting (it used to be NOEIGHT_BIT).  F I turned on debugging by setting the logical TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_DEBUG andD looked at the log file TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG.  Below are two lines from that file:_  $ Eightbit                      : TRUE$ 8BitMIME-Hack                 : TRUE  F This confirms that it picked up my settings properly.  However, when IE am sent an email message contain 8-bit characters, they still come in4@ using the =xx notation (with xx being a 2-digit hex code).  ThisF shouldn't happen.  Has anyone else noticed this problem and solved it?  C Now for the really weird part: Before I installed ECO 4, when I wasa= running TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1, I left the configuration setting attE NOEIGHT_BIT and defined the logical name TCPIP$SMTP_MIME_HACK, and it-	 *worked*.-  E I know, I know, the above logical name shouldn't have any effect.  Ite is incorrectly documented in  @ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/tcpip51/6526/6526pro_031.html  E (near the end of section 17.5).  It has a link that points to anothere1 section of the documentation (section 17.9.2), atu  N http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/tcpip51/6526/6526pro_033.html#8bit_mime_sec  B and this part of the online manual gives the logical name as beingC TCPIP$SMTP_8BITMIME_HACK .  Once I had upgraded to ECO 4 the formerEE (wrong) logical name did not turn on the proper feature; that is, theI line in the log file was:N  % 8BitMIME-Hack                 : FALSEn  F I distinctly recall receiving an 8-bit email without any mime encodingC while I was running with ECO 1, though, and before I learned that InB was using the wrong logical name.  (I don't have the log file from
 then, sorry.)S  @ Anyone have any idea why this would happen?  I checked the ECO 4A release notes and didn't see anything about this being a problem."  E Could someone at Compaq/HP have, in the process of correcting SMTP to A pick up the proper logical name, disabled the feature altogether?i    ? In case anyone wants to know, my current SMTP configuration andr service settings are:s) ---------------------------------------- w $ TCPIP SHOW CONF SMTP  e SMTP ConfigurationJ                                                                    OptionsJ Initial interval:   0 00:30:00.00       Address_max:    16       EIGHT_BITH Retry interval:     0 01:00:00.00       Hop_count_max:  16       NORELAYL Maximum interval:   3 00:00:00.00                                TOP_HEADERS  BG Timeout             Initial       Mail    Receipt       Data  Terminate/G   Send:                   1          1          1          1          1a   Receive:                1B  l Alternate gateway:  not definedd General gateway:    not definedi  a Substitute domain:  not definedd Zone:               not definedi  o Postmaster:         TCPIP$SMTPC Log file:           SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOGc   0 Generic queue       Queues   Participating nodes                      t" TCPIP$SMTP_UMTOF_00    2     UMTOF  ( ---------------------------------------- $ TCPIP SHOW SERVICE SMTPd  
 Service: SMTPG-                            State:     Enabled-G Port:               25     Protocol:  TCP             Address:  0.0.0.0nJ Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$SMTP      Process:  TCPIP$SMTPE Limit:              10     Active:        0           Peak:         3e  t2 File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.COM Flags:        Listen    Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheck 0  Receive:            0     Send:               0  nK Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjct TimO Addr >  File:        SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG  : Security  Reject msg:  not defined9  Accept host: 0.0.0.0o  Accept netw: 0.0.0.0s( ----------------------------------------   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edun   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 12:00:42 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com= Subject: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations1? Message-ID: <OF6F3571AD.7E9844FB-ON85256BEA.0055841F@metso.com>k  6 I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to: an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2).  7 If I just use BACKUP/IMAGE the cluster factor increasesb
 from 9 to 35.-   I think 35 is too large.  = I can INITIALIZE the target disk and user BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITrB to change things, but I have no information on what is reasonable.  D A search of the DSNlink Database produces no article that referencesD the SYSTEM DISK.  The original disk was FIS, so the values on it are
 a mystery.  / What does VMS development use? recommend? ship? C Is there an article on this specific subject ( Shouldn't there be)?h   Especially:a   * for   /CLUSTER_SIZE:  &         /CLUSTER_SIZE=number-of-blocks  F      Defines, for disk volumes, the minimum allocation unit in blocks.F      The maximum size you can specify for a volume is 16382 blocks, or2      1/50th the volume size, whichever is smaller.  F      For Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 2 (ODS-2) disks, the default?      cluster size depends on the disk capacity; disks with lesse@      than 50,000 have a default of 1. Disks that are larger thanE      50,000 have a default of either 3 or the result of the following #      formula, whichever is greater:   1      (disk size in number of blocks)/(255 * 4096)e  E      Any fractional values must be rounded up to the nearest integer.e  B [I would guess that keeping 9 is reasonable, but that is a guess.]   * for /DIRECTORIES:     &         /DIRECTORIES=number-of-entries  @      The effect of this qualifier depends on the disk structure:  C     o  For ODS-2 and ODS-5, /DIRECTORIES allows the initial size of0D         the MFD to be set. The specified number is divided by 16, toC         produce the number of blocks to preallocate. This number is 6         then rounded up to a whole number of clusters.  B      The number-of-entries value must be an integer between 16 and$      16000. The default value is 16.  C [I usually use 64, but I have no idea of the cost or reasonablenesst  of that value on a system disk.]   * for   /MAXIMUM_FILES:e           /MAXIMUM_FILES=n  >      Restricts the maximum number of files that the volume can@      contain. The /MAXIMUM_FILES qualifier overrides the default+      value, which is calculated as follows:n  7      (volume size in blocks)/((cluster factor + 1) * 2)r  C      The maximum size you can specify for any volume is as follows:-  1      (volume size in blocks)/(cluster factor + 1):  C      The minimum value is 0. Note that the maximum can be increasedw'      only by reinitializing the volume.   (                                     NOTE  ?         The /MAXIMUM_FILES qualifier does not reserve or createa?         space for new file headers on a volume. The file systemaD         dynamically allocates space as it is needed for new headers.    8 [The existing volume has a value of about 420,000 files]   *for   /HEADERS:  "         /HEADERS=number-of-headers  B      Specifies, for disk volumes, the number of file headers to be@      allocated for the index file. The minimum and default value@      is 16. The maximum is the value set with the /MAXIMUM_FILES      qualifier.u  A      This qualifier is useful when you want to create a number ofeA      files and want to streamline the process of allocating space @      for that number of file headers. If you do not specify thisA      qualifier, the file system dynamically allocates space as itc-      is needed for new headers on the volume.l  (                                     NOTE  A         The default value for the /HEADERS qualifier is generallyg@         insufficient for ODS-2 disks. To improve performance and@         avoid SYSTEM-F-HEADERFULL errors, Compaq recommends thatB         you set this value to be approximately the number of filesA         that you anticipate having on your disk. However, grossly-C         overestimating this value will result in wasted disk space.i  @      The /HEADERS qualifier controls how much space is initiallyF      allocated to INDEXF.SYS for headers. Each file on a disk requires@      at least one file header and each header occupies one blockC      within INDEXF.SYS. Files that have many Access Control Entriest?      (ACE) or are very fragmented may use more than one header.-  E      The default value of 16 leaves room for less than 10 files to beEF      created before INDEXF.SYS must extend. Therefore, try to estimateC      the total number of files that will be created on the disk and3F      specify it here. This will improve disk access performance. Over-C      estimating the value may lead to wasted disk space. This value 9      cannot be changed without reinitializing the volume.s  C      INDEXF.SYS is limited as to how many times it may extend. WhenlA      the map area in its header (where the retrieval pointers arey?      stored) becomes full, file creation fails with the messagen      "SYSTEM-W-HEADERFULL."   C [What is a guideline for the system disk in terms of maximum files?t All, half, some other number?]    *for  /WINDOWS            /WINDOWS=n  E      Specifies the number of mapping pointers (used to access data ineD      the file) to be allocated for file windows. The value can be an7      integer in the range of 7 to 80. The default is 7.   I [I usually up it to 80, but what is it on this disk and will the increasep help?]   * for  /EXTENSION:  #         /EXTENSION=number-of-blocksg  B      Specifies, for disk volumes, the number of blocks to use as aF      default extension size for all files on the volume. The extensionE      default is used when a file increases to a size greater than its B      initial default allocation during an update. For Files-11 On-E      Disk Structure Level 2 disks, the value for the number-of-blocksdB      parameter can range from 0 to 65,535. The default value is 5.F      For Files-11 On-Disk Structure Level 1 disks, the value can range      from 0 to 255.n  C      The OpenVMS operating system uses the default volume extensionhD      only if no different extension has been set for the file and noD      default extension has been set for the process by using the SET      RMS_DEFAULT command.c  # [It is currently the default of 5.]p   * for   /INDEX           /INDEX=position   >      Specifies the location of the index file for the volume's<      directory structure. Possible positions are as follows:  '      BEGINNING  Beginning of the volumeg.      MIDDLE     Middle of the volume (default)!      END        End of the volumeo=      BLOCK:n    Beginning of the logical block specified by nt  A [This used to matter, but does it on a SAN disk?  Would BEGINNINGv@ be just as good as END, especially if /HEADERS is large enough?]   -Norma   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 14:45:56 -0600n- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)nA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationse3 Message-ID: <dpCjsA7jEn$f@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  ^ In article <OF6F3571AD.7E9844FB-ON85256BEA.0055841F@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > 8 > I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to< > an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). > 9 > If I just use BACKUP/IMAGE the cluster factor increasesm > from 9 to 35.l >  > I think 35 is too large. > ? > I can INITIALIZE the target disk and user BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINIT D > to change things, but I have no information on what is reasonable.  F What is reasonable is whatever will avoid filling the disk while thereG is significant lost space in the leftovers of the last cluster for each E file.  Thus this depends entirely on how many files of what size willf be on the disk.   1 > What does VMS development use? recommend? ship?   C The VMS operating system components do not have a chance of fillingpC 18 GB.  Therefore, either your disk is going to be largely empty or B you are going to put "other" files on the system disk.  The answerA to your question is fully involved with the nature of the "other"e@ files and thus is nothing on which VMS Development could provide	 guidance.g   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:33:58 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.comA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsr? Message-ID: <OFBE5599B2.7CD52AB5-ON85256BEA.0070D0F9@metso.com>e   Larry,  G I am in substantial agreement with your analysis (to wit:  YMMV), but In would F still like to know what my delivered 4.1GB SCSI system disk was INITed with,i if only as a starting place.?m   -Norm       9 Please respond to Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)-   To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com cc:dD Subject:    Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations    ? In article <OF6F3571AD.7E9844FB-ON85256BEA.0055841F@metso.com>,- norm.raphael@metso.com writes: >s8 > I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to< > an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). >i9 > If I just use BACKUP/IMAGE the cluster factor increaseso > from 9 to 35.s >i > I think 35 is too large. >o? > I can INITIALIZE the target disk and user BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITiD > to change things, but I have no information on what is reasonable.  F What is reasonable is whatever will avoid filling the disk while thereG is significant lost space in the leftovers of the last cluster for eacheE file.  Thus this depends entirely on how many files of what size willn be on the disk.e  1 > What does VMS development use? recommend? ship?   C The VMS operating system components do not have a chance of fillingnC 18 GB.  Therefore, either your disk is going to be largely empty oruB you are going to put "other" files on the system disk.  The answerA to your question is fully involved with the nature of the "other"t@ files and thus is nothing on which VMS Development could provide	 guidance.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:08:56 +0100tU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>  Subject: Re: TCO study0 Message-ID: <afsc5o$h8r$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>  < I re-read the article and it appears to be a complaint about   1. -" The fact that there is a recession 2. .  A critique of the market economy  A In the current climate of reduced IT expenditure it is inevitablec' that VAR's will be feeling the squeeze.w  @ In market where outsourcing and ASP services have become a major@ way of delivering IT services VAR's are inevitably going to have= to consider hard what their value proposition is and how they  want to deliver it.-  < The major SI/Outsourcing companies that are independant of a9 hardware manufacturer, Accenture, EDS, CSC etc are havingu: to compete against IBM GS and now if it comes off a larger: HP services organisation, both GS and HP services are able9 to buy IBM and HP products at a very aggressive rate. EDSg9 Accenture et al need to be able to compete and this meansj8 that unless a VAR does add value to the product they are8 reselling that gives the big SI value they are forced to deal direct with Sun etc.Y  9 Ironically the two vendors that the editor refers to thata9 they consider the VAR's should look at IBM and HP are theo7 two vendors with the the full service organisations whoe; are most likely to entirely cut the VAR out of the picture.r  8 If the editor thinks that Sun VAR's are currently in the5 frying pan then advising them to consider jumping oute/ into the fire seems at best to be shortsighted.o  2 Lets hope for the readership that very few of them take the editorials advice.    Regardst Andrew Harrisons   Terry C. Shannon wrote:-  % > "Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy"8@ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> wrote in message, > news:afq0u5$n61$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com... >  >> >>sasadmin wrote:. >> >> >>>sms@antinode.org writes:t >>>S >>>a >>>.+ >>>>From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyV >>>>/ > <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e > . >>>>>His loss he might have learn't something. >>>>>r >>>>>aI >>>>  From Mr. Harrison, he's about as likely to learn how to construct a"/ >>>>sentence, or the proper use of apostrophes,b >>>> >>>>...d >>>> >>>>E >>>Please (re-)read Bill The Quill. You might want to reconsider yourt >>>N
 > American >  >>>English chauvinism. >>>iK >>>I agree Andrew may sometimes be over the top, but I welcome a dissentingE >>>N > P.O.V. > A >>>That said, Andrew, do you have any remarks on the var BusinessR >>>B > editorial? >  >> >>: >>The editor seemed to have forgotten what VAR stands for. >> >>Value Added Reseller.n >> >>1.< >>Sun has actually been remarkably consistent in its channelD >>strategy, almost diametrically opposite to Digital, Compaq, HP andD >>IBM. If we have changed our channel strategy over the years it hasA >>been as nothing when compared with the upheavals in other majornB >>vendors channels, a point picked up on by one of the responders. >> > I > I've only kept an eye on Sun and its channels strategy since ~1993, butwL > based on what I've seen over the last decade Andrew speaks the truth here.J > Contrast this with DEC's ~1994-5 efforts to pursue an indirect strategy. >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 11:26:17 -0700e. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: UAF questions< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0207021026.c5dc420@posting.google.com>   "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5D2@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>...gN > A cleaner solution would be to create a concealed-device logical that pointsM > to the directory where you want the users' directories to reside.  That wayeK > if you get additional disk drives and want to move the users' directoriesOM > then you just change where the logical points and you do not have to modify K > all the accounts in the UAF.  Section 6.3.3 of the "Guide to OpenVMS File J > Applications" explains how to set up a rooted-device logical name.  ThisB > guide can be found via the link to the OpenVMS documentation at:" > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/>   $ SET DEFAULT disk:[000000]d $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER]h $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE]t $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY] etc., for new users andn   $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER]- $ RENAME [000000]JOE.DIR [USER]H  $ RENAME [000000]MARY.DIR [USER]D etc., for existing users. Note that renaming directories will resultD in the next incremental backup being larger than expected for recent versions of BACKUP.   B $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC  USERDISK  disk:[USER.]/TRANSLATION=CONCEALED  ; $ MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY JOE /DEVICE=USERDISK:/DIRECTORY=[JOE]T  = $ MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY MARY /DEVICE=USERDISK:/DIRECTORY=[MARY]    etc.  = When MARY logs in she'll see her default as USERDISK:[MARY]!.   D Warning: Beware of the 8 directory-level limit if it applies to yourD system! Users will be able to create 9th-level directories, files inD which won't be saved by incremental save operations for some systemsA (depends on file system, version of BACKUP that you're using, andTD whether the BACKUP command refers to USERDISK or the physical disk).     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanM afeldman gfigroup comT   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 17:46:45 -0700S. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: UAF questions= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0207021646.2c2e1ca8@posting.google.com>.  r SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0207021026.c5dc420@posting.google.com>... > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5D2@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>...cP > > A cleaner solution would be to create a concealed-device logical that pointsO > > to the directory where you want the users' directories to reside.  That way[M > > if you get additional disk drives and want to move the users' directoriesAO > > then you just change where the logical points and you do not have to modify-M > > all the accounts in the UAF.  Section 6.3.3 of the "Guide to OpenVMS FileoL > > Applications" explains how to set up a rooted-device logical name.  ThisD > > guide can be found via the link to the OpenVMS documentation at:$ > > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/> >  > $ SET DEFAULT disk:[000000]O > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER]. > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE]t  > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY] > etc., for new users ande >  > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER] ! > $ RENAME [000000]JOE.DIR [USER]A" > $ RENAME [000000]MARY.DIR [USER]F > etc., for existing users. Note that renaming directories will resultF > in the next incremental backup being larger than expected for recent > versions of BACKUP.o > D > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC  USERDISK  disk:[USER.]/TRANSLATION=CONCEALED   Oops! I forgot....  L $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM  ! unless SYSUAF is defined to be your sysuaf file.   Then...n  = > $ MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY JOE /DEVICE=USERDISK:/DIRECTORY=[JOE]b > ? > $ MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY MARY /DEVICE=USERDISK:/DIRECTORY=[MARY]: >  > etc. > ? > When MARY logs in she'll see her default as USERDISK:[MARY]!.  > F > Warning: Beware of the 8 directory-level limit if it applies to yourF > system! Users will be able to create 9th-level directories, files inF > which won't be saved by incremental save operations for some systemsC > (depends on file system, version of BACKUP that you're using, andiF > whether the BACKUP command refers to USERDISK or the physical disk). >  >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldmanh > afeldman gfigroup com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:38:19 -0400k- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m Subject: Re: UAF questions, Message-ID: <3D2271A3.61C22648@videotron.ca>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE]   > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY] > etc., for new users andc   Pedantic mode here:e  % CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE]/OWNER=JOEO' CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY]/OWNER=MARYn  L If you omit the /OWNER, then it .JOE and .MARY will be created with the sameI owner as USER and likely that users JOE and MARY won't be abvle to access 9 files in that directory if they do not have access to it.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 21:37:40 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)! Subject: Re: Unable to ZIP a filee= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0207022037.36215727@posting.google.com>k  j dorrt@sutterhealth.org (tr dorr) wrote in message news:<59b7bbb8.0207020741.caf6b44@posting.google.com>... > David:C > Using Level=8 worked. I could not find any reference for Level 8.t > What does Level 8 do?l	 > Thanks,f > Tomn  @ I don't pay much mind to the options. If memory serves (David or> someone will weigh in if not) the numbers 0-9 control how much* "effort" to put into compressing the file.  B At the lower end 0 means "just store it." At the upper end 9 means" "compress it as much as possible."   Joeh  ? > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message h > > + > > $ ZIP/LEVEL=8/VMS archive_name filespect > >  > >  - or -o > > % > > $ ZIP "-8V" archive_name filespece > >  > > >   adding: WPAYQHOK.DAT   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 21:38:15 -0700v" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)! Subject: Re: Unable to ZIP a filem= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0207022038.4da99512@posting.google.com>o  j dorrt@sutterhealth.org (tr dorr) wrote in message news:<59b7bbb8.0207020741.caf6b44@posting.google.com>... > David:C > Using Level=8 worked. I could not find any reference for Level 8.f > What does Level 8 do?n	 > Thanks,  > Tomr  @ I don't pay much mind to the options. If memory serves (David or> someone will weigh in if not) the numbers 0-9 control how much* "effort" to put into compressing the file.  B At the lower end 0 means "just store it." At the upper end 9 means" "compress it as much as possible."   Joe   ? > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message   > > + > > $ ZIP/LEVEL=8/VMS archive_name filespeco > >  > >  - or -e > > % > > $ ZIP "-8V" archive_name filespecs > >  > > >   adding: WPAYQHOK.DAT   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 21:38:53 -0700t" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)! Subject: Re: Unable to ZIP a filei= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0207022038.10e58b36@posting.google.com>e  j dorrt@sutterhealth.org (tr dorr) wrote in message news:<59b7bbb8.0207020741.caf6b44@posting.google.com>... > David:C > Using Level=8 worked. I could not find any reference for Level 8.b > What does Level 8 do?S	 > Thanks,h > Tom   @ I don't pay much mind to the options. If memory serves (David or> someone will weigh in if not) the numbers 0-9 control how much* "effort" to put into compressing the file.  B At the lower end 0 means "just store it." At the upper end 9 means" "compress it as much as possible."   Joea  ? > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message a > > + > > $ ZIP/LEVEL=8/VMS archive_name filespec  > >  > >  - or -d > > % > > $ ZIP "-8V" archive_name filespecd > >  > > >   adding: WPAYQHOK.DAT   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jul 2002 21:38:53 -0700e" From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)! Subject: Re: Unable to ZIP a file = Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0207022038.6a74e40b@posting.google.com>n  j dorrt@sutterhealth.org (tr dorr) wrote in message news:<59b7bbb8.0207020741.caf6b44@posting.google.com>... > David:C > Using Level=8 worked. I could not find any reference for Level 8.i > What does Level 8 do?g	 > Thanks,u > Toma  @ I don't pay much mind to the options. If memory serves (David or> someone will weigh in if not) the numbers 0-9 control how much* "effort" to put into compressing the file.  B At the lower end 0 means "just store it." At the upper end 9 means" "compress it as much as possible."   Joeg  ? > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message s > > + > > $ ZIP/LEVEL=8/VMS archive_name filespece > >  > >  - or -i > > % > > $ ZIP "-8V" archive_name filespecs > >  > > >   adding: WPAYQHOK.DAT   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:31:24 -0400u From: G Everhart <ge@gce.com>f Subject: VMS 64bitness& Message-ID: <3D21FF8C.7000202@gce.com>  H VMS is NOT a 32 bit system with a few 64 bit extensions in any meaninfulG sense, not since 7.0. Almost every internal function will accept 64 bitiI arguments, as will the drivers, control blocks and so on. There are a feweH residue areas that are in 32 bit only space (notably FIBs, for those fewJ who know what those are). These structures are generally used by internalsK folks, are small, and impose no particular hardship on anyone for living in # S0 or S1 space instead of S2 or P2.x  Q The design document for the initial 64 bit port was ~1000 pages long with details N all over. Look at what the DIOBM structure does for you, if you want. This wasO an exceedingly clever system that allowed VMS-supplied code to hide much of thelQ 64 bit mapping complexity from driver writers. It is hidden, but it is there, andoR DMA transfers can and do routinely take place into or out of space anywhere in the& 64 bit range, without extra buffering.  S The initial reports about Windows NT 64 bit were that it was indeed a 32 bit systemuM with a few add-ons to access 64 bit space, but without paging or mapping savedR a constant mapping above 32 bit space, buffering transfers in low memory and doingO processor copy, and a few more bits. I don't know if Windows is still like that T or not, but at one time it was very much a mislabelled 32 bit system with the neededT few minimal hacks to allow it to use fixed large buffers in extended memory. That isS not entirely useless: it is what one needs to get very large databases to work with R indices in memory, for example, and if the programmer sees I/O into or out of thisU extended memory, it may not matter to him that it is buffered in low memory somewheregS since the overwhelming database advantage is derived from being able to search hugedU memory arrays and that advantage is not lost by crockish hacks to fill or empty them.M   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:38:37 -0400n1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> ! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMSo2 Message-ID: <3D21E51D.4AAE5418@firstdbasource.com>   arturo saavedra wrote: >  > D > Couldn't a bankrupt Worldcom be able to spin off MCI as a separate > profitable= > entity and use the proceeds to pay back some of its debts ?-  = The problem is that long distance is in serious trouble thesep; days with all of the wireless companies offering "free longe; distance".  This has put a serious dent in their previously6 lucrative market.c   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163r7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.coma                           + http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.htmle/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)C   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:32:03 -0700o& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: wow, Message-ID: <3D21D583.5070107@gregcagle.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:t> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message* > news:h%7U8.373855$352.46492@sccrnsc02... > > >>"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# >>news:3D2102F4.40F8BCFB@fsi.net...o >> >>>WILLIAM WEBB wrote: >>>i* >>>>I *told* you that HP was listening.... >>>nG >>>So, eh? We'll see - come October and the "HP Listens Panel", if theye# >>>even do that this time around...i >>L >>Haven't heard anything to the contrary but will czech with the HPETS folks >>to find out for sure.d >> >  > L > Yep. Consistent with my expectations (above) there will be an "HP Listens"  > panel @HPETS2002 in St. Louis. >  >   F And there is also the "Strategic Management Roundtable" at HP World in
 September.   -- o
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:15:57 GMTy& From: Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM mode 2 Message-ID: <87lm8u3unq.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  # Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:-  7 > I would settle for "it's kind of neat" at this point.n OK!H > B > > There are probably other techniques in OS X that allow this to@ > > occur. Your Xserver will allow a remote client to manage its > > desktop. > 7 > That is my goal.... sort of. When using X in Mac OS X : > with my VMS system I would prefer to use the CDE desktop; > that I already have configured instead the window managere > I have on my Mac. C About 5 years ago, I had about 4 minutes exposure to CDE. I can seeu@ that although it takes getting used to, the environment has some useful features.  :  > That said, it can be a very unsecure configuration in a > > hostile environment. > 8 > The only "hostile" critter on my LAN is my W2K latptop? > that connects to my ISP. My Mac and Alpha (and a couple VAXenD= > when they are turned on) don't have access to the internet. E OK, but we'll still have to ensure that the VMS box has permission tor open a display under XDarwin.   a > > I don'teD > > know about the OS X, but login &c is probably handled during the > > machine boot.  >  > Correct. l > 3 > > In that environment, the X Window GUI is merelySA > > one of several GUI choices; does the machine in question booty@ > > directly into X, or is the X environment invoked on demand?  > F > On demand. Mac OS X boots into 'Aqua' unless you intentionally turn 8 > that off (At which point you might as well run Linux).  D Do you mean run Linux or run X? If the OS kernel has loaded, at thisC point, one would be loading the user interface. In other words, theu> sequence is boot loader -> OS X -> Aqua. I think you want boot@ loader -> OS X -> XDarwin. "Run Linux" implies the sequence boot loader -> Linux -> X.r > E > For all intents and purposes, Mac OS X IS Unix. Sure, it has a MachtA > kernel and a custom GUI and it does things in a similar fashions8 > to NextStep (a distant ancestor) but it's mostly Unix. > D > > Now, does OS X have a username/password facility during its boot< > > sequence? If so, can you replace that facility with xdm? >   > I could but have desire to....  " I'm not sure what you mean here... > A > Well.... Aqua doesn't provide the ability run X applications or C > remote window managers itself. The port of XFree (XDarwin) works s: > pretty much like Xceed. It runs parallel to Aqua. And X : > applications running in XDarwin look like X applications= > (depending upon the window manager being used with XDarwin)AE I'm not familiar w/ Xceed. My experience is limited to the MS-Windows F X display server sold by DECpaq (whose name I do not recall). How does@ it run in "parallel?"  Doesn't that have display synchronizationB issues? What if an XDarwin window occludes an Aqua window? How are. keystroke and mouse movement issues resolved?   D In most cases, allowing a remote client to manage your desktop means; that the root window (Aqua in this case) must be completelya- replaced. That means losing the Aqua desktop.h  7 > I can start up XDarwin, log into my Alpha using xtermh2 > and then start up an X session on my Alpha using
 > dtlogin. > 9 > The issue is that on Mac OS X + XDarwin I don't get the~< > CDE desktop I want.... just individual applications that I; > have configured to start when I start up CDE on my Alpha.5 > 8 > On the other hand, I can do something similar, using a5 > Vaxstation 4000VLC I have and I end up with the CDE09 > desktop from my Alpha running on it. Without using xdm.cF How's the login handled? IIRC, dtlogin is DEC's implementation of xdm.  & Anyway, here's what I would try first.  D 0) Ensure remote clients have access to your machine. It sounds likeB you've already setup .Xauthority or xhosts, since xterm runs fine.  B 1) Look at the sys$system:cde$startup (or whatever it's called) onE VMS. It must have some parameters. One of these controls what displayu to use.t  D 2) XDarwin should support the concept of the variable $DISPLAY. ThisE is usually a value similar to ":0.0" This is the default value for anlE environment where the server and client are on the same machine. Your F $DISPLAY variable should look like "myhost:0.0" Now that I think aboutF it, it probably does, since you're getting xterm to correctly work. IfB it's ":0.0", the display would be on the VMS box, and you would be1 disappointed. Again, that can't be the case here.S  : 3) Try rsh VMSBOX sys$system:cde$startup -display $DISPLAY  F By pointing cde$startup at "myhost:0.0", you should get the CDE windowE manager "taking over" from XDarwin's default window manager. FWIW, oniD Debian Linux, the default X Window manager is called twm (tab windowB manager). If everything works, you should see XDarwin windows loseD their borders, widgets, &c. There will be a pause, and these widgetsE will become the CDE variant. Another way to test this is to telnet toAE VMSBOX, and start CDE from DCL, passing it the $DISPLAY parameter for'	 "myhost."d  B I'm guessing about sys$system:cde$startup; which guess is based onE SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$STARTUP. FWIW, you might experiment with DECW$STARTUPhB to see if you can get it to talk to XDarwin. You might need X fontB server (xfs) on VMS, or copy X fonts to your OS X box from the VMS- box, or configure XDarwin to use the VMS xfs.K    Please let me know what happens.   -- a Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:17:41 GMT-! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>4 Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM modeo> Message-ID: <Xns923F912787831acsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>  4 Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> enlightened us with+ news:87lm8u3unq.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net: i  % > Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:2  9 > OK, but we'll still have to ensure that the VMS box hasr. > permission to open a display under XDarwin.   8 In a crude way (that I've done for years) that would be        	xhost +  B I thought I had set it up to use Xauthority but I missed something- somewhere. I'll figure it out eventually.... c    s   A >> On demand. Mac OS X boots into 'Aqua' unless you intentionallyt> >> turn that off (At which point you might as well run Linux). > " > Do you mean run Linux or run X?   ? Sorry.... I wasn't clear enough... if you are going to turn offu? 'Aqua' in Mac OS X you might as well just reinitialize the hardr@ drive and install Linux or install Darwin (Mac OS X without Aqua* that is also available for Intel machines)  @ >> > Now, does OS X have a username/password facility during itsB >> > boot sequence? If so, can you replace that facility with xdm? >> E! >> I could but have desire to....  > $ > I'm not sure what you mean here...  A pseudo-Typo. Should have been "I don't want to replace the Mac OSI X lgoin facility with xdm."g    s  < > I'm not familiar w/ Xceed. My experience is limited to theA > MS-Windows X display server sold by DECpaq (whose name I do not  > recall).    B eXcursion. Sorry.... thought you referred to eXceed.... I actually( have eXcursion installed on a PC laptop.  3 > How does it run in "parallel?"  Doesn't that havel; > display synchronization issues? What if an XDarwin windowK? > occludes an Aqua window? How are keystroke and mouse movementD > issues resolved? :  * Somebody wrote it so that it would do so ?  @ > In most cases, allowing a remote client to manage your desktop8 > means that the root window (Aqua in this case) must be: > completely replaced. That means losing the Aqua desktop.  h6 I think I must be using the wrong terminology here....4 I want the CDE "desktop" on my Alpha to be available5 on my Mac running Mac OS X so that the X session runsd3 on my Mac. NOT to replace my Mac's normal desktop.    @ XDarwin has the ability to run "rootless" so that X applications9 can interact with Aqua applications (with some quirks) or88 it can take over the entire screen and all you see are XB applications and you can switch back to Aqua (similar to the Linux virtual screen idea).   @ > How's the login handled? IIRC, dtlogin is DEC's implementation
 > of xdm.   B Really ? I thought it was just a login/window manager for CDE. xdm? isn't available for VMS unless you have Multinet and now TCP/IP  5.3 (or was that in 5.1?)   i( > Anyway, here's what I would try first. > A > 0) Ensure remote clients have access to your machine. It soundso> > like you've already setup .Xauthority or xhosts, since xterm
 > runs fine. -   Yes.  -  < > 3) Try rsh VMSBOX sys$system:cde$startup -display $DISPLAY    mA > By pointing cde$startup at "myhost:0.0", you should get the CDE1< > window manager "taking over" from XDarwin's default windowA > manager. FWIW, on Debian Linux, the default X Window manager is4B > called twm (tab window manager). If everything works, you shouldA > see XDarwin windows lose their borders, widgets, &c. There willh< > be a pause, and these widgets will become the CDE variant.   Which is actually my goal :-).  @ > Another way to test this is to telnet to VMSBOX, and start CDE; > from DCL, passing it the $DISPLAY parameter for "myhost."s   Hmmm....  , I've been logging into my Alpha and doing a:   $ !e9 $ set display/create/transport=tcpip/node=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX % $ run sys$system:DECW$STARTLOGIN.EXE;E $ !M  < which does get me the CDE desktop when I use my VAX for such" purposes as previously mentioned.     I'll see where I end up....-   -Andy-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:50:01 GMTs From: Jordi Guillaumes i Ponsa Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM moded, Message-ID: <3D223A1C.8090204@nospam.please>   Andy wrote:t7 > That is my goal.... sort of. When using X in Mac OS X0: > with my VMS system I would prefer to use the CDE desktop; > that I already have configured instead the window manager  > I have on my Mac.   G I've lost the firsts messages of this thread. I think you're trying to vE get a full-screen CDE remote session on your Mac running X, isn't it?   I I don't have a Mac. I do it using a PC running linux or FreeBSD, or even "J XFree86 under Win2k using cygwin. Perhaps you'll find some of this useful:  / - First, I fire up a second X server on the PC:i  
 $ X :1 -ac  I (Beware, the "-ac" part disables X access control. I realize you will be oF doing this in your private LAN, so there are no security concerns...).  C - Second, I log in the VMS system (a VAX, actually, so no CDE) and::  5 $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=thepc/TRANSP=tcpip/SERVER=1:  $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$STARTLOGIN    (that last command needs privs).  B And... voil! The Decwindows login screen appears on the remote X F display. Once I login, I get the native desktop, including the window ; manager. BTW, even with a VAX the performace is acceptable.v  I I'm sure it could be improved, using rsh to fire a command procedure, or  < even a TASK decnet object. One of these days I'll try it :).   Hope this helps.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 00:15:44 GMTt& From: Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM modes2 Message-ID: <87lm8ty7pn.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  # Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:n  6 > Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> enlightened us with- > news:87lm8u3unq.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net:   > ' > > Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net> writes:  > ; > > OK, but we'll still have to ensure that the VMS box has20 > > permission to open a display under XDarwin.  > : > In a crude way (that I've done for years) that would be  >  >     	xhost + Crude is an understatment...  C > pseudo-Typo. Should have been "I don't want to replace the Mac OS6 > X lgoin facility with xdm."a Right. I don't think you can.   > > > I'm not familiar w/ Xceed. My experience is limited to theC > > MS-Windows X display server sold by DECpaq (whose name I do notm
 > > recall). i > D > eXcursion. Sorry.... thought you referred to eXceed.... I actually* > have eXcursion installed on a PC laptop.D I probably did refer to eXceed (duh!) Yes, I'm familar w/ eXcursion.  B > > In most cases, allowing a remote client to manage your desktop: > > means that the root window (Aqua in this case) must be< > > completely replaced. That means losing the Aqua desktop. >  -8 > I think I must be using the wrong terminology here....6 > I want the CDE "desktop" on my Alpha to be available7 > on my Mac running Mac OS X so that the X session runs 5 > on my Mac. NOT to replace my Mac's normal desktop. cF You're not using the wrong terminology. I'm just trying to fill in the@ blanks in my understanding of your problem statement. After someB reading, I believe that CDE should run "rooted" I'm basing that on% statements made about twm on the Mac.a  hB > XDarwin has the ability to run "rootless" so that X applications9 > can interact with Aqua applications (with some quirks) r Which is the most common mode.  = > or it can take over the entire screen and all you see are XeD > applications and you can switch back to Aqua (similar to the Linux > virtual screen idea).wA This is the state I refer to above "the remote client manage youroE desktop." You shouldn't need (and have indicated you don't want) this- mode.d   > B > > How's the login handled? IIRC, dtlogin is DEC's implementation > > of xdm.  > D > Really ? I thought it was just a login/window manager for CDE. xdmA > isn't available for VMS unless you have Multinet and now TCP/IPr > 5.3 (or was that in 5.1?) 2 You could be right; I'm not very familar with CDE.    > $ ! ; > $ set display/create/transport=tcpip/node=XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX ' > $ run sys$system:DECW$STARTLOGIN.EXE;eE Unless I'm mistaken, you're getting a username/password screen, whichoD then launches your CDE applications, based on the CDE initialization" stuff in your sys$login directory.  8 So, you get the CDE applications, but not the CDE windowE manager. Somewhere in the vast morass known as sys$system, there is a D DCL script that starts the CDE window manager. You want to find thatI file and execute it in place of DECW$STARTLOGIN (aka xdm). Basically, youe> already have an X server (XDarwin) and whatever window managerC it provides (quien sabe!). You want to keep XDarwin and run the CDEl window manager.a  @ rsh should get you past the username/password step. Via rsh, youF want to start the CDE window manager using your node as the server. As4 I observed earlier, this will be slow, but way cool.   -- , Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 04:14:46 GMTr! From: Andy <acs@fcgnet.works.net>2 Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM mode>= Message-ID: <Xns924023F4FD6Dacsfcgnetworksnet@216.166.71.232>c   Jordi Guillaumes i Ponsa@ <jguilla-at-attglobal-dot-net@nospam.please> enlightened us with% news:3D223A1C.8090204@nospam.please:    
 > Andy wrote:a8 >> That is my goal.... sort of. When using X in Mac OS X; >> with my VMS system I would prefer to use the CDE desktopt< >> that I already have configured instead the window manager >> I have on my Mac.   > > > I've lost the firsts messages of this thread. I think you're< > trying to get a full-screen CDE remote session on your Mac > running X, isn't it? c   Correct.  1 > - First, I fire up a second X server on the PC:/ >  > $ X :1 -ac > B > (Beware, the "-ac" part disables X access control. I realize youB > will be doing this in your private LAN, so there are no security > concerns...).   / Hmmm... second X server ? Hadn't tried that....0    g@ > - Second, I log in the VMS system (a VAX, actually, so no CDE) > and: a > 7 > $ SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=thepc/TRANSP=tcpip/SERVER=1r" > $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:DECW$STARTLOGIN  : I do this.... though I wasn't doing the second X server...  " > (that last command needs privs). > A > And... voil! The Decwindows login screen appears on the remotee
 > X display. c  9 I get that.... and logging in is no problem..... and any t; applications I've saved as started in CDE start up/show up.   7 > Once I login, I get the native desktop, including the  > window manager.   + But I don't get the CDE window manager.... v   > Hope this helps.   Thanks for the suggestions....   -Andy- --        ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.362 ************************ o
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:15:57 GMTy& From: Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> Subject: Re: Xwindows: XDM mode 2 Message-ID: <87lm8u3unq.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  # Andy <