1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 03 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 363       Contents:; Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA   Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...  Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0 , Re: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix, Re: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix( Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...& Re: DEC hostile (was re: Compaq/C....)@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC Re: fab=cc$rms_fab$ RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... Re: fun with pipe  Re: fun with pipe  Re: fun with pipe  Re: Future of messaging on VMS1 Re: how detect all batch queues in a VMS system ? ! Inquirer on Compaq/Digital merger % Re: Inquirer on Compaq/Digital merger % Re: Inquirer on Compaq/Digital merger  Re: Java file names  Re: Memo:  A pleasant surprise Microvax gathering dust... RE: Microvax gathering dust... Re: OpenVMS 7.3 Update 200 Re: parsing >255! Re: postscript print from vms 5.4 ! Re: postscript print from vms 5.4 / Re: Powerstorm 300/350 cards and OpenGL on OVMS  Second X-terminal  Re: Second X-terminal  Re: Second X-terminal ; Re: Secure HTTP client app buildable under OpenVMS/OpenSSL?  Re: SET WATCH question Re: SMTP 8bit hack not working Re: SMTP 8bit hack not working) Strangeness in XABKEYDEF.H (xab$w_pos[8]) ' Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + RE: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)  Re: UAF questions  Re: UAF questions  Upgrade problem!/ Re: Using GNU C on OpenVMS FAQ (Looking for it) / Re: Using GNU C on OpenVMS FAQ (Looking for it)  Re: VMS 64bitness  Re: VMS 64bitness  Re: when is a typo not a typo? RE: when is a typo not a typo? Re: when is a typo not a typo?" Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMS [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  RE: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  RE: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  Re: [OT] The Joy of ... Mergers   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:45:25 +0100 % From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> D Subject: Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ???? ERRATA8 Message-ID: <0ho5iu0rsuah681oif57nd02s6baps2hd4@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:04:27 GMT, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote:    >John Smith wrote:J >> In the on-line newspaper world, its the latest news that's free and theO >> archives that cost money. For Terry, it's the inverse. It costs money to fly J >> to these places, and the man has to eat.....how else does Terry pay for >> that? > L >Well Terry keeps refering being an ex-employee of some intelligence agency. > H >According to the movies and the tv shows in the U.S., ex-employee's of G >intelligence services have stashes of cash and "defensive" weapons in  E >safehouses all over the globe.  But of course they only use them in   >defense of the free world. :-)   @ Allegedly a few ex MK-Ultra operatives dig up LSD caches, storedD around Europe in the 60s and 70s for deployment in water supplies inC case the Soviets ever invaded, every few years whenever they need a  bit of cash.  D Probably not true but it does attract hippies with shovels to former US bases :)    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 04:53:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> ) Subject: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 , Message-ID: <3D22BB7D.213F17BE@videotron.ca>  L Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI portK of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device it E is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I , absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ?  C If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:03:55 +0200+ From: "Luca_B" <balzano-spam-avoid-@iol.it> - Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 ( Message-ID: <afuekf$229f$1@half.spin.it>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D22BB7D.213F17BE@videotron.ca...I > Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI  portJ > of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device itG > is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I . > absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ?   which SCSI port?   L.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:04:54 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 ) Message-ID: <3D22BE36.B1F5A409@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:  > N > Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI portM > of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device it G > is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I . > absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ? > E > If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?    $ MCR SYSGEN A A? (OK, OK, I know you should use SYSMAN, but old habits die hard)    $ SH DEV  E Don't try 'hot' plugging SCSI devices on NT systems, it right royally $ screws them, but what do you expect? --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 09:05:57 GMT 1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie) - Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 : Message-ID: <V7zU8.23968$eF5.898218@twister.austin.rr.com>  . JF Mezei (jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca) wrote:N : Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI portM : of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device it G : is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I . : absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ? : E : If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?  : B If it has a SCSI ID that doesn't conflict with any other device on that SCSI bus, then:      $ MCR SYSGEN     SYSGEN>  AUTOCONFIGURE ALL     SYSGEN>  EXIT  A should result in a scan of the SCSI bus and the device being made 1 available to VMS without having to shut VMS down.   2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:43:37 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 + Message-ID: <afukgp$rs5$4@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   \ In article <3D22BB7D.213F17BE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:M >Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI port L >of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device itF >is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I- >absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ?  > D >If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?    On Alpha you use  SYSMAN IO AUTO  E However it looks like you need to use a SYSGEN command on VAX systems    ie     Alpha1:mcr sysman  SYSMAN> help io auto   IO     AUTOCONFIGURE   F        This command is for use on Alpha systems only. It automaticallyC        identifies and configures all hardware devices attached to a E        system by connecting devices and loading their drivers. On VAX 5        systems, use the SYSGEN command AUTOCONFIGURE.   ?        You must have CMKRNL and SYSLCK privileges to use the IO         AUTOCONFIGURE command.         
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 08:12:10 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) - Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 3 Message-ID: <KapSzyuM0JnN@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <3D22BB7D.213F17BE@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:N > Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI portM > of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device it G > is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I . > absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ? > E > If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?   H    You cannot safely attach a SCSI device to this bus with the power on.     Booting becomes a moot point.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 09:33:17 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 . Message-ID: <3D22FD1D.14C8A4E1@mindspring.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:  J >    You cannot safely attach a SCSI device to this bus with the power on." >    Booting becomes a moot point.  ( Third-party and Compaq-provided hardware, certainly exists that allows hot-plugging of) SCSI bus devices. An obvious (but not the . only) example are any of the zillion different# boxes (including StorageWorks) that ( "containerize a SCSI drive and provide a& front-loaded rack enclosure. These are almost always hot-swappable.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:00:06 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 ) Message-ID: <3D231F86.D53F8270@127.0.0.1>    Atlant Schmidt wrote:  >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > L > >    You cannot safely attach a SCSI device to this bus with the power on.$ > >    Booting becomes a moot point. > * > Third-party and Compaq-provided hardware. > certainly exists that allows hot-plugging of+ > SCSI bus devices. An obvious (but not the 0 > only) example are any of the zillion different% > boxes (including StorageWorks) that * > "containerize a SCSI drive and provide a( > front-loaded rack enclosure. These are > almost always hot-swappable.   Bob is sort of right.   H *IF* you plug in a SCSI device to a bus, while a command is in progress,E you run the risk of bugchecking the box. This is from a field service G guy who knows his stuff. By and large, VMS manages to deal with it, and 0 providing you're quick, you'll get away with it.  E But the phrase "get away with it" does not imply it is safe to do so! G I'll do it on my box and my equipment, but I'll always ask a client for 	 downtime.   D But Atlant is also right, newer fangled storageworks is quite happy,F I've swapped out failed over raidsets and initiated rebuilds and you'dF only know anything happened cos I wrote my name in "the book" saying I did something.     --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:14:57 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 - Message-ID: <3D232301.B0C7AFC@mindspring.com>    Randy Park wrote:   9 > I have personally done this with my VaxStation 3100/30. = > To be successful, I make sure that no processes are active, 9 > particularly accessing a SCSI I/O device.  I would then < > carefully, but very quickly, remove the terminator, insert< > the new device, and replace the terminator.  Better if you; > have two terminators so as to elminate the last step.  Be 9 > cautioned that this doesn't always work, and the system  > could freeze up.  ( You can actually buy aftermarket devices, (advertised in the Mac world, at least) that, interpose some sort of gadget that claims to+ allow reliable hot plugging inn an ordinary . cabled-together SCSI system. I've never looked4 into the technical details of what these gadgets do.   Atlant   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:28:52 -0400 2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 . Message-ID: <3D232644.51343D4B@mindspring.com>   Nic Clews wrote:  J > *IF* you plug in a SCSI device to a bus, while a command is in progress,G > you run the risk of bugchecking the box. This is from a field service I > guy who knows his stuff. By and large, VMS manages to deal with it, and 2 > providing you're quick, you'll get away with it.  , The question of whether or not you'll glitch% an ongoing-transaction and whether or - notthat glitch will matter is a pretty subtle 	 question.   2 Yes, an ordinary SCSI bu can certainly be glitched1 by casually hot-plugging an ordinary SCSI device. 2 This is especially true if your plugging operation) momentarily disturbs the bus termination.   8 But at least in concept, bus transcivers can be designed6 to not cause glitches. For one thing, you might design4 them to minimize the electrical capacitance, thereby7 minimizing the amount of charge that needs to rush into 7 the capacitor when it's first connected to the bus. For 3 a second thing, you might design your connectors to / allow pre-charge power to reach all of your bus 4 transceivers (and thereby charge up all those little5 capacitors to, say, the threshold voltage) before the - transceivers make contact with the bus. Taken + together, these two steps can produce small 0 enough glitches that the rest of the hardware on6 the bus never is not perturbed at all by the insertion5 of the new device. And given succcesful hot-plugging, 1 hot-unplugging is *very* easy to accommodate. (1)   4 But even if the bus glitches, proper controller chip2 design and software support can detect the failure' and recover the failed transaction. (2)    Atlant    / 1. Some of you who are into arcana may remember 1     a bus named "Futurebus" (IEEE 896, the "Once- 1     and-Future-Bus"). Hot plugging was a definite 3     feature of that bus and we took both steps that 4     I mentioned to accomplish the task, along with a1     manual switch that disabled drivers while you 7     were plugging/unplugging a module.  "Containerized" 5     SCSI disks often have all three of these features /     as well, althoughthe manual switch is often -     hidden in some sort of release mechanism.   . 2. I once worked on adding error-recovery to a1     (non-VMS) SCSI bus driver that was supporting 3     a very electrically-noisy SCSI environment, not 3     unlike the environment you'd find right after a /     hot-plug bus glitch. did a *LOT* of work to (     make transaction recovery work well.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:04:48 -07002 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 2 Message-ID: <afv7br$jhq$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  7 I have personally done this with my VaxStation 3100/30. ; To be successful, I make sure that no processes are active, 7 particularly accessing a SCSI I/O device.  I would then : carefully, but very quickly, remove the terminator, insert: the new device, and replace the terminator.  Better if you9 have two terminators so as to elminate the last step.  Be 7 cautioned that this doesn't always work, and the system  could freeze up.    8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D22BB7D.213F17BE@videotron.ca...I > Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external SCSI  portJ > of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of device itG > is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must IR. > absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ? >aE > If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?i   ------------------------------  . Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:48:24 +0200 (MET DST)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...6 Message-ID: <200207030648.IAA26435@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  B Andrew did missread me email. Our ES40 have 600MHz CPUs and is notA a server it is an AlphaStation, which is much cheaper. Also it is C a model 1 ES40. For the Alpha we got also F&L conditions. But there B is no fix discount. The 600MHz CPU did cost 6.600,00Euro ~US$. TheC memory is Kingston, which cost less money. Sun do stop any service,.A if we sold foreign memory. Also the F&L seller do sell Sun's onlyi with the original memory.    Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  . Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:03:52 +0200 (MET DST)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...6 Message-ID: <200207030703.JAA26488@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  C Andrew, as I did write before, our ES40 runs under OpenVMS (nothingn? else) und have four 600MHz CPUs. The list price for the ES40 isn> about 30% higher then our price. Why did we not sell a 667MHz?C Because we would get 1.3 times more power for a 1.5 times expensive G price. That does make no mention, is you need not the more performance.s@ AFAIK, the Sun has a FC-AL adapter and 36GB disks. I know, that,C in this case the I/O performance have to do nothing with the systemrA performance. The 180GB disk is much faster then 36GB disk. So the 1 FC-AL versus LVD SCSI performance is meaningless.d   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:13:13 +0100pU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>d0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...0 Message-ID: <afuf5s$825$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rudolf Wingert wrote:d   > Hello, > D > Andrew did missread me email. Our ES40 have 600MHz CPUs and is notC > a server it is an AlphaStation, which is much cheaper. Also it ishE > a model 1 ES40. For the Alpha we got also F&L conditions. But thereaD > is no fix discount. The 600MHz CPU did cost 6.600,00Euro ~US$. TheE > memory is Kingston, which cost less money. Sun do stop any service,nC > if we sold foreign memory. Also the F&L seller do sell Sun's only  > with the original memory.F >     9 Sun won't stop service if you buy foreign memory, we willh3 ask you to remove it before we service the machine.p  9 I assumed that we were talking about a comparison betweenb5 2 four CPU servers, it now turns out that we arn't weu, are talking about a workstation vs a server.  8 As you yourself have pointed out the ES40 server is more6 expensive, the list price for a ES40 model 1 server is; 40,000 dollars more in a similar config to the workstation.u  9 So your points about pricing seem to be off the mark, they; V880 is a server and as the prices show an AlphaServer ES40- is more expensive.  8 In addition the V880 is more expandible it can currently6 support 8 CPU's and 32 GB or RAM, you should expext to9 pay a bit more for this, your model 1 has fewer PCI slots0 and supports less memory.p  7 I could not get a price for the 600 Mhz ES40 because HP.; no longer sell the product, however the 600 Mhz CPU's using:8 the measures so liked by the Alpha protagonists, SPECint1 and SPECfp are slower than the CPU's in the V880.r  9 Finally you appear to have run a micro benchmark which is 6 entirely I/O bound, the benchmark appears to show that6 the LVD drives are faster than the FC-AL drives, which3 from the specs is an entirely reasonable conclusionr2 to draw, attach some LVD drives to the Sun and see! if you get the same differential.c  5 And finally the fact that you created a 10 GB file onf5 a machine with 16 GB of memory and copied it, and dide5 the same on a machine with 8 GB of memory should havel2 rung alarm bells with you in terms of the validity of the benchmark.    Regardsa Andrew Harrisonm     > Regards Rudolf Wingert >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:43:56 +0200r= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>m& Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 and Tomcat 4.0) Message-ID: <3D22FF9B.449059DA@gtech.com>    James Gessling wrote:mN > I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry for Tomcat  4.  I downloaded 4.0.3 onto
 > a Linux box-M > and it just plain didn't work.  Problems finding and loading classes.  ThisS > version was billedI > as the "stable" release.  4.0.4(beta 3) worked better for me, but it iso
 > still beta.    ????  = I have used Tomcat 4.x with JBoss (but without Apache) on VMS ' and not noticed any classpath problems.s   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 08:07:49 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)J5 Subject: Re: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unixo3 Message-ID: <ZiDHF6nZZ03d@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  \ In article <3D21E5FA.A6985FD0@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:O > On VMS, one knows that the C RTL is just a subset of the vast array of systemI > services available.i > I > On the MAC, the C RTL is more or less emulated and also a subset of the M > "system services" provided by the MAC (at least in the MAC OS 9 and below).g > L > What about for Unix ? Does the C RTL represent a small subset of availableN > system services, or is it a comprehensive list of what is available with the > operating system itself ?   G    On UNIX, if it's in man section 2 it's actually part of the OS whicheD    in principle any language could call (or at least that language'sH    library could be built on).  The glue between C calling standards andG    other language's calling standards may not be present outside of thei    other language's library.  G    If it's in man section 3 it's probably part of the C library, but it>D    might actually be stored in a different .a or .so file, requiring    an -l option to link in.   H    Very few C programmers on UNIX pay any attention to that distinction.F    For portability most non-UNIX OS emulate the man section 2 routines%    in their C libraries, as does VMS.t   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 13:31:38 GMTs( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)5 Subject: Re: C RTL versus system services VMS vs Unix00 Message-ID: <afuubq$2mg$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  3 In article <ZiDHF6nZZ03d@eisner.encompasserve.org>,t/ koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:8_ |> In article <3D21E5FA.A6985FD0@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: R |> > On VMS, one knows that the C RTL is just a subset of the vast array of system |> > services available. |> > wL |> > On the MAC, the C RTL is more or less emulated and also a subset of theP |> > "system services" provided by the MAC (at least in the MAC OS 9 and below). |> > dO |> > What about for Unix ? Does the C RTL represent a small subset of availabletQ |> > system services, or is it a comprehensive list of what is available with the  |> > operating system itself ? |> SJ |>    On UNIX, if it's in man section 2 it's actually part of the OS whichG |>    in principle any language could call (or at least that language'slK |>    library could be built on).  The glue between C calling standards andiJ |>    other language's calling standards may not be present outside of the |>    other language's library.a |> @J |>    If it's in man section 3 it's probably part of the C library, but itG |>    might actually be stored in a different .a or .so file, requiringt |>    an -l option to link in.  @ The same applies to section 2.  While the system call may always< be present, there is no guarantee that the C interface is in= the standard library.  Most such exceptional system calls ares. system-dependent and often privileged, though.  > Many Unices also have sections 3M, 3X and so on, and sometimes: libraries with no section mapping, especially for optional facilities.n  K |>    Very few C programmers on UNIX pay any attention to that distinction.NI |>    For portability most non-UNIX OS emulate the man section 2 routineso( |>    in their C libraries, as does VMS.  = There is also considerable wobbling around between how Unices ? implement the functions.  Sometimes "section 2" interfaces were C once system calls and are now C library calls, and some "section 3" A calls are actually just interfaces to system calls.  Depending onu= the system, its version and even the underlying hardware ....A     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 02:45:53 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>21 Subject: Re: Compaq/Capellas were DEC hostile ...n, Message-ID: <3D229D8D.8A908BA6@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:iH > Ya know, the same assertions could be made WRT the NonStop (nee TandemL > Himalaya) customer base. The NSK folks also face a migration to IPF smoke,M > and thus far there has been little resistance to this "Risky Scheme." Sales N > of NonStop systems, both within the installed base and to new customers, are > increasing, too.  J NSK has not been dealt with the broken commitments Compaq gave VMS when itM murdered Alpha. NSK has not been given the silent treatment by Compaq and HP.0K NSK figures fairly prominently on HP's roadmap. VMS only gets one sentence,   albeit now with one word bolded.  M NSK isn't used in high performance situations, it is used in high reliabilityaM situations. For Tandem architecture, it is better to have more CPUs of lessera performance than fewer.t  G The more processors you have, the more flexible your load balancing andfE application fallback schemes become and you don't need to double yourtM investment (think of a processor acting as fallback for applications that runI% primary on more than one processors.)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 09:04:45 -0400-! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu> / Subject: Re: DEC hostile (was re: Compaq/C....)a' Message-ID: <3D22F66D.33EB9030@vcu.edu>C  > there is one where someone tried to intercept a bribe, and got@ leprosy..  Thats' my windows machine's name, gehazi... a leprous servant!!!!!!!  	 hee hee..I   Jim    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > / > In article <0033000071087403000002L032*@MHS>,r/ >  WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:  > |>@ > |> 2) There's a parable in the New Testament about the servant@ > |>    who, when entrusted with one talent, hid it in the earth$ > |>    instead of making use of it. > : > Yes, but he didn't get rewarded with a golden parachute. >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:20:39 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC,8 Message-ID: <v6u5iuclho8f47hqu151lbah0embm3o77o@4ax.com>  D On 27 Jun 2002 13:25:31 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:   >	Tell me . . .  >	A >	Am I reading what you wrote correctly?  Are you suggesting thatt@ >	senior management within a large corporation is concerned with@ >	what OS they are running?  I'm talking CEO.  And then by that,2 >	are you suggesting CEOs make platform decisions?  D Err, yes and that's exactly why some Microsoft marketing to this day? is often aimed at CEO types and suggests that these terrible IT0B techies have been lying to management about why the need all theseD 'legacy systems'. Yes it's just as the CEO suspected. Windows reallyD can do everything and you can get rid of the troublesome IT dept and7 run with a bunch of part time high school Windows kids.e   >,F >	Converseley, if a platform gives a corporation a competive advantageC >	how many CEOs know or are concerned with what OS said platform ist
 >	running? >l >				Rob   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:36:05 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com> I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCn0 Message-ID: <afv239$eag$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Alan Greig wrote:e  F > On 27 Jun 2002 13:25:31 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  >  >>	Tell me . . . 0 >>	:B >>	Am I reading what you wrote correctly?  Are you suggesting thatA >>	senior management within a large corporation is concerned with.A >>	what OS they are running?  I'm talking CEO.  And then by that,a3 >>	are you suggesting CEOs make platform decisions?, >> > F > Err, yes and that's exactly why some Microsoft marketing to this dayA > is often aimed at CEO types and suggests that these terrible ITnD > techies have been lying to management about why the need all theseF > 'legacy systems'. Yes it's just as the CEO suspected. Windows reallyF > can do everything and you can get rid of the troublesome IT dept and9 > run with a bunch of part time high school Windows kids.- >     < One of the largest companies in the UK was in the market for= a mail and groupware platform. They ended up evaluating Notes < and Exchange, which had no workflow/groupware capabilites at	 the time.i  8 Bill met with the Chairman who was assured that they had8 Microsofts full support and that they could rest assured0 that MS would deliver the missing functionality.  3 The technical team recommended Notes obviously, theg4 company bought Exchange which was then "implimented"6 by Digital who were the origional mail server platform on VMS.r   Regardsh Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 10:22:09 -0600o+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)wI Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCn3 Message-ID: <2VUVL+hpAX17@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  ` In article <v6u5iuclho8f47hqu151lbah0embm3o77o@4ax.com>, Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> writes:F > On 27 Jun 2002 13:25:31 -0600, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) > wrote: >  >>	Tell me . . . t >>	fB >>	Am I reading what you wrote correctly?  Are you suggesting thatA >>	senior management within a large corporation is concerned withrA >>	what OS they are running?  I'm talking CEO.  And then by that,s3 >>	are you suggesting CEOs make platform decisions?h > F > Err, yes and that's exactly why some Microsoft marketing to this dayA > is often aimed at CEO types and suggests that these terrible ITgD > techies have been lying to management about why the need all theseF > 'legacy systems'. Yes it's just as the CEO suspected. Windows reallyF > can do everything and you can get rid of the troublesome IT dept and9 > run with a bunch of part time high school Windows kids.w >   E 	I would go a notch above that.  I would go with former truck-driversiB 	and former construction workers.  The idea is that you don't needE 	people with 4-year degrees in Computer Science (or better) to manage A 	your systems.  You have multiple boxes for everything.  You have7D 	several layers of virus protection.  When the whole thing goes bad,A 	you never hear about it (unless it is a ship being towed back tol> 	port).  The impetus is cost savings and it is demonstratable.  , 	Training can take you quite a long ways andD 	much can be hidden behind GUIs and buying a package for everything,A 	leaving out big scripting requirements for customization and the D 	former brick-layer doesn't have to sweat thinking he might actually 	have to "do some programming."a  B 	The very big downside is not fully understanding what is going on7 	and a bad real-time decision puts you in a nasty bind.o  D 	In-depth training and in-depth cross-training works.  The submarineD 	service is mostly flawless (all go out, all come back) working withA 	former truck-drivers, construction workers and high-school kids.e  A 	If our favorite system can't stay a notch above everything else,oF 	it will be subsumed by the point-and-click gang.  That and backgroundB 	strangulation of ideas and successes sure don't help much at all.  C 	The fact that VMS is coming to Industry Standard servers is a very 
 	big plus.   				Rob)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:14:14 -0400m- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>4I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCh, Message-ID: <3D2330E5.80A96575@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:L >         The fact that VMS is coming to Industry Standard servers is a very >         big plus.   K Until IA64 becomes industry standard, you cannot consider that VMS is beingiI ported to an industry standard platform. As of now, it is very much an HPnF proprietary platform developped by Intel and very much NOT an industry
 standard one.   = Port to the 8086 and then that might be an industry standard.J  N Heck, I'd consider Sparc to be more industry standard than IA64. And had AlphaP not been murdered last year, it would still be more industry standard than IA64.  9 Don't sell the bear's skin until you've killled the bear.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:12:48 +0200s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>d Subject: Re: fab=cc$rms_faba) Message-ID: <3D230660.CE20D612@gtech.com>    Vivek Soni wrote: ; > struct FAB fab=cc$rms_fab;   /*God knows what this does*/r > struct NAM nam=cc$rms_nam; > A > I think I have spend enough time to get some info/docs on this.r > > > Could anybody help me with the link of page for more info on >  > fab=cc$rms_fab  & cc$rms_xxx is a standard/template xxx.  : It is just an easy way of getting some fields initialized.   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:21:43 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>o- Subject: RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...RT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607E3@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Paul,o  ' >>> VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.<<<w  H As Glenn Everhart stated very well in a different reply to this comment, this statement is incorrect.=20    Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanth Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660C Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----: From: Paul Winalski [mailto:prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com]=20 Sent: July 2, 2002 12:32 PMs To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...     4 On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:31:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:u   >h1 >"Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message=20o0 >news:afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de... >>2 >> Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then? >uH >Hardly, since it's a 64-bit operating environment. You can, however,=203 >run VAX/VMS on IA32 via the Charon-VAX translator.a  F VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.  It's a 32-bit environment with a fewG 64-bit extensions.  As are the IA32-based NT variants such as Win2K anda WinXP.  E The biggest barriers to putting VMS on IA32 would be development of an< MACRO-32 compiler targeting IA32 and device drivers for IA32C peripherals.  The former isn't all that big a job since GEM already 
 targets IA32.e  E There are really no technical problems, just business ones.  Digital,nH Compaq, and now HP are running VMS as a cash cow.  They don't care aboutD growing the VMS market, just extracting $$$ from the installed base.H Retargeting to IA32 would be a major engineering investment with dubiousG payback prospects.  If you believe in the future of Itanium, of course.   G A 64-bit port to the Hammer architecture would be anintriguing prospectlH that it might make sense for HP to pursue at least as a fallback in case" Itanium doesn't make it after all.  
 ---------- Remove 'Z' to reply by email.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 12:15:29 GMTi( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...t0 Message-ID: <afupt1$rl0$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  K In article <rdeininger-0207021934280001@1cust238.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>,-4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:< |> In article <3d21d399.2045345781@proxy.news.easynews.com>,4 |> prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote: |> 2J |> >VMS still carries around its neck the dual albatrosses of tons of codeA |> >in VAX MACRO and BLISS, and last time I looked the proportion D |> >of the former was still growing relative to code in BLISS and C.D |> >There is still no concerted effort to rewrite the VAX MACRO intoD |> >a HLL, and effort IMO that should have been started 15 years ago |> >and finished a decade ago. |> tL |> I don't agree.  To port to some other platform, compilers are needed.  HPL |> already has front ends that know all these languages.  A new architectureI |> would require a code generator, but 3 front ends are almost as easy toi1 |> connect to a code generator as 1 front end is.e |> aH |> VAX MACRO, Bliss, and C are just compiled languages.  None of them is |> inherently unportable.w  ? Not so.  All are mid-level languages and, as a matter of designvB policy, support inherently unportable programming paradigms.  ThisB shouldn't be overstressed, as experience is that it is fairly easy< to translate even plain assembler (e.g. IBM System/370) into@ assembler for other architectures with only a moderate amount of* manual editing, provided that it is clean.  C But it is NOT likely to be a simple case of recompiling.  See below  for the more detail.  M |> The porting obstacles are the pieces of code (in all these languages) thatnH |> explicitly depend on hardware or firmware features.  Those pieces areL |> being found and either replaced or isolated to small, encapsulated chunks |> during the current port.e  B If the code is very clean, then that could be so, but I doubt thatB it is that simple.  Cleaning up the code that assumes a particularA machine without encapsulating it is precisely the IA-64 work thata4 could be reused on POWER4, SPARC, MIPS or whatever.   B Without looking at the code, I cannot say how easy this is, but itA can be anywhere between trivial (for the cleanest code) to flatlyr@ impossible (for the dirtiest).  In the latter case, the code has@ to be rewritten from scratch, to conform to the same interfaces;? and, in REALLY nasty cases, even the interfaces are unportable.D  = I doubt that VMS contains much foul code, no least because itd? would have been thrown out in the port to Alpha, but that stilll& leaves a lot of scope for uncertainty.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679C   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:22:34 GMTi? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... 0 Message-ID: <3d22f479.19553105@news.demon.co.uk>   Kerry,  B It depends on what you mean by a 64-bit environment.  Glenn made aD good claim to the 64-bitness of the innards of the kernel.  I have aB great deal of respect for the people who drove that project, and I" believe they did an excellent job.  D However.  VMS then stopped.  The level of 64-bitness drops radically? as you float up from system context.  By the time you break the D surface in user mode, the level of 64-bitness is pretty small.  Yes,C you can do some things in 64-bits.  But there's a lot you can't do, E and a lot of library routines that don't operate on data in P2 space.t  E Just for yucks, place your filename string in storage you malloced in 3 S2 space, and use it as an input to conv$convert...u  E Yes, it's a stupid example, and yes, it implies a lot of donkey work.pD But it is part of what would be needed to be a true 64 bit system at all levels.i  B Now, is it justified in terms of ROI?  That's not for me to say or? guess at -- I'm assuming that it must not be or people would be  working to fix it.   Fwiw,N Jim.  D On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:21:43 -0400, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   >Paul, >s( >>>> VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.<<< >sI >As Glenn Everhart stated very well in a different reply to this comment,i  >this statement is incorrect.=20 >i >Regards >2 >Kerry Mainw >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard Canada " >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477  >Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com  >  >s >-----Original Message-----a; >From: Paul Winalski [mailto:prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com]=20b >Sent: July 2, 2002 12:32 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... >. > 5 >On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:31:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"-  ><terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: >e >>2 >>"Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message=201 >>news:afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...s >>> 3 >>> Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then?o >>I >>Hardly, since it's a 64-bit operating environment. You can, however,=20 4 >>run VAX/VMS on IA32 via the Charon-VAX translator. >sG >VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.  It's a 32-bit environment with a feweH >64-bit extensions.  As are the IA32-based NT variants such as Win2K and >WinXP.o >wF >The biggest barriers to putting VMS on IA32 would be development of a= >MACRO-32 compiler targeting IA32 and device drivers for IA32eD >peripherals.  The former isn't all that big a job since GEM already >targets IA32. >PF >There are really no technical problems, just business ones.  Digital,I >Compaq, and now HP are running VMS as a cash cow.  They don't care aboutmE >growing the VMS market, just extracting $$$ from the installed base.mI >Retargeting to IA32 would be a major engineering investment with dubiousfH >payback prospects.  If you believe in the future of Itanium, of course. > H >A 64-bit port to the Hammer architecture would be anintriguing prospectI >that it might make sense for HP to pursue at least as a fallback in casea# >Itanium doesn't make it after all.e >r >----------- >Remove 'Z' to reply by email.   Jim Johnson0 Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)C   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:59:09 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>n- Subject: RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...wT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607E5@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   G'day Jim !r  ; >>> It depends on what you mean by a 64-bit environment.<<<W  F Yep. Good point - this is likely one of those never ending discussions> that could go on for weeks... Or at least for a pint or two ..   :-)   , Is everything fully 64bit on OpenVMS? No.=20  G However, imho, the same argument could be used for almost any OS with alG 32bit history ie. there are typically 32bit fields either in the kernelcF or user space that were never converted to 64bit for reasons of eitherH compatibility, lack of user / ISV demand or cost justification (pay back vs. effort).=20v  E From what I understand, Tru64 UNIX is more 64bit aware than most OS's-E (including other UNIX's) as it did not have any 32bit history to deali with. It started as a 64bit OS.s  @ Now, if one defines a "64bit" OS as having 64bit pointers, 64bit? integers, 64bit kernel (see Glenn's excellent response) and the1C facilities required by a 64bit program (i.e. directly address 64bitlB memory ranges), then I would suggest that OpenVMS is "a 64bit OS".  F Could more work be done to make OpenVMS even better from a programming perspective? Absolutely.=20n  G And this work is continuing in area's where it makes sense - keeping inpD mind that cost justification, user demand and compatibility concerns need to be addressed as well.a   :-)    Regardsn  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant0 Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----I From: Jim Johnson [mailto:Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com]=20m Sent: July 3, 2002 9:23 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...a     Kerry,  G It depends on what you mean by a 64-bit environment.  Glenn made a goodlE claim to the 64-bitness of the innards of the kernel.  I have a great0D deal of respect for the people who drove that project, and I believe they did an excellent job.  G However.  VMS then stopped.  The level of 64-bitness drops radically asIG you float up from system context.  By the time you break the surface innD user mode, the level of 64-bitness is pretty small.  Yes, you can doE some things in 64-bits.  But there's a lot you can't do, and a lot of 8 library routines that don't operate on data in P2 space.  H Just for yucks, place your filename string in storage you malloced in S20 space, and use it as an input to conv$convert...  E Yes, it's a stupid example, and yes, it implies a lot of donkey work. H But it is part of what would be needed to be a true 64 bit system at all levels.a  H Now, is it justified in terms of ROI?  That's not for me to say or guessH at -- I'm assuming that it must not be or people would be working to fix it.j   Fwiw,e Jim.  D On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:21:43 -0400, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   >Paul, >a( >>>> VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.<<< >oC >As Glenn Everhart stated very well in a different reply to this=20i+ >comment, this statement is incorrect.=3D20r >T >Regards >e >Kerry Maine >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard Canadaw" >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477  >Email: Kerry.Main@hp.comu >r >n >-----Original Message-----d= >From: Paul Winalski [mailto:prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com]=3D20i >Sent: July 2, 2002 12:32 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... >w >w8 >On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:31:39 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon"=20  ><terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote: >- >>7 >>"Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> wrote in message=3D20=20o1 >>news:afk7bf$f4squ$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de...D >>>h3 >>> Are we going to see VMS on IA32 after all then?n >>@ >>Hardly, since it's a 64-bit operating environment. You can,=20B >>however,=3D20 run VAX/VMS on IA32 via the Charon-VAX translator. >.J >VMS is NOT a 64-bit environment.  It's a 32-bit environment with a few=20H >64-bit extensions.  As are the IA32-based NT variants such as Win2K and   >WinXP.e >yI >The biggest barriers to putting VMS on IA32 would be development of a=20 @ >MACRO-32 compiler targeting IA32 and device drivers for IA32=20G >peripherals.  The former isn't all that big a job since GEM already=20h >targets IA32. >dI >There are really no technical problems, just business ones.  Digital,=20aF >Compaq, and now HP are running VMS as a cash cow.  They don't care=20H >about growing the VMS market, just extracting $$$ from the installed=20J >base. Retargeting to IA32 would be a major engineering investment with=20H >dubious payback prospects.  If you believe in the future of Itanium, of   >course. >dH >A 64-bit port to the Hammer architecture would be anintriguing prospect  G >that it might make sense for HP to pursue at least as a fallback in=20'( >case Itanium doesn't make it after all. >e >----------  >Remove 'Z' to reply by email.   Jim Johnsonl Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 07:29:25 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>)- Subject: RE: Fearless IPF Prognostications...t9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIAEJPFEAA.tom@kednos.com>m   >-----Original Message-----n: >From: Robert Deininger [mailto:rdeininger@mindspring.com]% >Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:34 PMh >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... >  >": >In article <3d21d399.2045345781@proxy.news.easynews.com>,2 >prune@ZAnkh-Morpork.mv.com (Paul Winalski) wrote: >d >sB >>I don't see anything going on that will significantly change the< >>difficulty of porting VMS to other hardware architectures. >>H >>VMS still carries around its neck the dual albatrosses of tons of code? >>in VAX MACRO and BLISS, and last time I looked the proportion B >>of the former was still growing relative to code in BLISS and C.B >>There is still no concerted effort to rewrite the VAX MACRO intoB >>a HLL, and effort IMO that should have been started 15 years ago >>and finished a decade ago. > J >I don't agree.  To port to some other platform, compilers are needed.  HPJ >already has front ends that know all these languages.  A new architectureG >would require a code generator, but 3 front ends are almost as easy toM/ >connect to a code generator as 1 front end is.n  L Depends on the abstract machine model.  I have done 6, but had the advantageF of using a rich language,  which subsumed the semantics of the others, mostly.a   >oF >VAX MACRO, Bliss, and C are just compiled languages.  None of them is >inherently unportable.e >mK >The porting obstacles are the pieces of code (in all these languages) thatuF >explicitly depend on hardware or firmware features.  Those pieces areJ >being found and either replaced or isolated to small, encapsulated chunks >during the current port.e >mH >Example:  The bulk of the alpha PALcode is being replaced with OS-basedF >code to do the same work.  Most code that calls PALcode won't have toF >change, and what does change will be written to the new API.  For theI >(hypothetical) next VMS port, the "PALcode" implementation would have to$H >be reimplemented, but there would not be another round of tweeks in the >upper layers of the OS. >;C >Alpha assembly code is being replaced, but not much of it is being  >replaced by IPF assembly code.t >eK >Modules are being rewritten (mostly into C) piecemeal, when there seems to " >be a clear advantage to doing so. > J >It's pretty clear that the work of re-coding all the Bliss and Macro (andE >....) into C would far exceed the work of building IPF compilers and  >leaving the source code alone.4  L This almost always true.  The best example I can think of was Data ResourcesE of Lexington Mass going from Burroughs to 370 (ca. 1981).  Instead ofe recodingH all their WORKING programs they wrote an Algol compiler for the IBM 370.   >eH >There is a significant change between this port and the last one.  LastJ >time, they ported TO alpha, with significant alpha-specific bits all overD >the place.  They made a decision to maintain separate source pools. >4H >This time, the target of the port is more generic, with a firm layer ofG >platform-hiding code between the hardware and the bulk of the OS.  AndeK >source code will be (mainly) common between alpha and IPF.  This is partly J >because VMS has no influence on future IPF chip design (unlike alpha) and+ >reduced influence on future system design.h >" >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.o; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).eA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002' >  ---t& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 11:13:08 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)u- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...A3 Message-ID: <T14qL4la1RPn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <3d22f479.19553105@news.demon.co.uk>, Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) writes: > Kerry, > D > It depends on what you mean by a 64-bit environment.  Glenn made aF > good claim to the 64-bitness of the innards of the kernel.  I have aD > great deal of respect for the people who drove that project, and I$ > believe they did an excellent job. > F > However.  VMS then stopped.  The level of 64-bitness drops radicallyA > as you float up from system context.  By the time you break theoF > surface in user mode, the level of 64-bitness is pretty small.  Yes,E > you can do some things in 64-bits.  But there's a lot you can't do,tG > and a lot of library routines that don't operate on data in P2 space.1 > G > Just for yucks, place your filename string in storage you malloced in 5 > S2 space, and use it as an input to conv$convert...a  E Or create a process with a 2 GB user mode stack.  That implies havingtE the stack outside of the 1 GB P1 space.  DEC chose compatibility overw purity of the 64-bit approach.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:37:22 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) - Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...C0 Message-ID: <3d23268b.32371688@news.demon.co.uk>   Larry,    E On 3 Jul 2002 11:13:08 -0600, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)s wrote:  s >In article <3d22f479.19553105@news.demon.co.uk>, Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson) writes: 	 >> Kerry,i >> aE >> It depends on what you mean by a 64-bit environment.  Glenn made acG >> good claim to the 64-bitness of the innards of the kernel.  I have aaE >> great deal of respect for the people who drove that project, and If% >> believe they did an excellent job.n >> tG >> However.  VMS then stopped.  The level of 64-bitness drops radicallyaB >> as you float up from system context.  By the time you break theG >> surface in user mode, the level of 64-bitness is pretty small.  Yes, F >> you can do some things in 64-bits.  But there's a lot you can't do,H >> and a lot of library routines that don't operate on data in P2 space. >> eH >> Just for yucks, place your filename string in storage you malloced in6 >> S2 space, and use it as an input to conv$convert... >dF >Or create a process with a 2 GB user mode stack.  That implies havingF >the stack outside of the 1 GB P1 space.  DEC chose compatibility over >purity of the 64-bit approach.s   Larry,  @ It's not quite as simple as that.  If my only problem was that I> couldn't call 32 bit routines with a 2GB P1 stack, I'd have no problem.  E However wrt chosing compatibility over purity: They've shown in otherlF cases how to add 64-bit routines side by side with their 32-bit littleD cousins.  That gives you compatability without losing the ability to@ use the 64 bit space, and IMHO makes a lot of sense.  What I wasC pointing out was that after doing a few of these pairings, progressaD either stopped or significantly slowed.  conv$convert was simply the' first routine that popped into my head.   A It's not really a question about compatability.  It is a questionmF about how much effort is worth getting expended in making VMS fully 64D bit capable at the user code level... and I've already said that I'm? assuming that the VMS business people understand the tradeoffs.    Jim. Jim Johnsont Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)k   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:38:48 GMT ? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson).- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...40 Message-ID: <3d232845.32813533@news.demon.co.uk>  D On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:59:09 -0400, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:   >G'day Jim ! >j< >>>> It depends on what you mean by a 64-bit environment.<<< >.G >Yep. Good point - this is likely one of those never ending discussions6? >that could go on for weeks... Or at least for a pint or two ..    Hi!a  > Yes, this looks like a discussion that could go on for quite a= while... and one that would be best done over a few pints. :)o   Jim.   Jim Johnsonn Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)m   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:23:50 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: fun with pipe+ Message-ID: <afujbm$rs5$2@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   c In article <aft1p5$h67g1$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:lF >Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider this	 >example:c >e% >$ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11n( >%SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched >$ sho log/output=junk.dat >$ search junk.dat x11 >  "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE"s >   J What version of VMS is this on. My VMS 7.3 Alpha system appears to have no
 problem :-  ) Alpha1:pipe sh log | search sys$input x11 *         = "TEX_ROOT:[INPUTS._AMSLTX11...]"(         = "x11=mapleplotxshr.spawn_plot"   "X11VMS" = "GENDISK:[X11]"#   "X11_DIRECTORY" = "DECW$INCLUDE:"t   "X11_ROOT" = "GENDISK:[X11.]"v0   "XAW3DLIBSHR" = "GENDISK:[X11]XAW3DLIBSHR.EXE".   "XAWLIBSHR" = "GENDISK:[X11]XAW3DLIBSHR.EXE"'   "XAW_DIRECTORY" = "GENDISK:[X11.XAW]"o,   "XMULIBSHR" = "GENDISK:[X11]XMULIBSHR.EXE"'   "XMU_DIRECTORY" = "GENDISK:[X11.XMU]"-   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE"  K I'd suspect that this system probably has a lot more logical names defined u than your system.p    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  K >Huh?  If I search for something closer to the "top" of the list of logical  >names >it works fine.  >,+ >$ pipe sh log | search sys$Input tapelabelm >  "TAPELABEL" = "21"n >$ sho log /output=junk.date >$ search junk.dat tapelabel >  "TAPELABEL" = "21"d >iK >The only difference I can see is that X11 is on line 1360 in junk.dat (anda >in the output> >from show log).  But TAPELABEL is on line 298.  VMS v7.2-1h1. >M >Jim >  >  >  >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 09:17:20 -0400v1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>h Subject: Re: fun with pipe2 Message-ID: <3D22F960.F067AC8E@firstdbasource.com>   david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:e > e > In article <aft1p5$h67g1$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>, "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> writes:'H > >Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider this > >example:c > >o' > >$ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11m* > >%SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched > >$ sho log/output=junk.dat > >$ search junk.dat x11 > >  "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE"t > >  > L > What version of VMS is this on. My VMS 7.3 Alpha system appears to have no > problem :- > + > Alpha1:pipe sh log | search sys$input x11 , >         = "TEX_ROOT:[INPUTS._AMSLTX11...]"* >         = "x11=mapleplotxshr.spawn_plot" >   "X11VMS" = "GENDISK:[X11]"% >   "X11_DIRECTORY" = "DECW$INCLUDE:"s! >   "X11_ROOT" = "GENDISK:[X11.]"a2 >   "XAW3DLIBSHR" = "GENDISK:[X11]XAW3DLIBSHR.EXE"0 >   "XAWLIBSHR" = "GENDISK:[X11]XAW3DLIBSHR.EXE") >   "XAW_DIRECTORY" = "GENDISK:[X11.XAW]" . >   "XMULIBSHR" = "GENDISK:[X11]XMULIBSHR.EXE") >   "XMU_DIRECTORY" = "GENDISK:[X11.XMU]"  >   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE" > L > I'd suspect that this system probably has a lot more logical names defined > than your system.1 >  > David Webb <snip>  A although, my test script generated more logicals than his and wasn? able to successfully find the logical being searched for... mayi2 have something to do with process quotas as well..  5  CPU limit:                      Infinite  Direct I/O  limit:       1007  Buffered I/O byte count quota:    327478  Buffered I/Of limit:     100A  Timer queue entry quota:              20  Open file quota:        10005  Paging file quota:                996928  Subprocessb quota:       100A  Default page fault cluster:           64  AST quota:            i 99986  Enqueue quota:                  16776958  Shared file limit:        0b5  Max detached processes:                0  Max activet jobs:          0  0 Also, try reading sys$pipe instead of sys$input. --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163n7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comc                          r+ http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html"/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)p   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 07:02:04 -0700, From: "James Gessling" <jgessling@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: fun with pipe4 Message-ID: <afv04t$hjd98$1@ID-46415.news.dfncis.de>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D226F9B.849F8CD0@videotron.ca... > James Gessling wrote:l > >&I > > Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider thisK > > example: > > ( > > $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11+ > > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchedn > > $ sho log/output=junk.dat  > > $ search junk.dat x11M > >   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE" >sI > This was discussed some time ago. It is a "feature" of show logical and6 othernH > programs whose output exceeds the buffer size of the device created by pipeI > for interprocess communications so parts of the output don't make it toc thed6 > other process as the output "packet" gets truncated.  B I found a discussion regarding using  DEFMBXMXMSG and DEFMBXBUFQUOJ to allow for larger records to go through pipes (in fact I participated in	 it).  But E you're saying that if the data exceeds some size, it is just silentlyB
 truncated?  E That's just totally unacceptable.  How did VMS engineering think theyd? could get away with that? They should be ashamed of themselves.   # Here's a way to see the truncation.u  + $ pipe show log | copy sys$Input sys$output' <lots of stuff>e   "HTTPD80$CONTROL" = "MBA142:"n- %SHOW-F-WRITEERR, error writing SYS$OUTPUT:.;d- -RMS-F-SYS, QIO system service request failed 4 -SYSTEM-F-MBTOOSML, mailbox is too small for request  5 So this works, logical name is before the truncation.   2 $ pipe show log | search sys$Input httpd80$control   "HTTPD80$CONTROL" = "MBA142:"4  5 But this does not, next logical name after truncationu  1 $ pipe show log | search sys$Input httpd80$count1 ' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matchedd   What a mess.   Jim2   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:35:36 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk' Subject: Re: Future of messaging on VMS + Message-ID: <afuk1n$rs5$3@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>5  \ In article <3D227DE4.EC7DC8BA@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:. >PMDF may be nice, but it is mighty expensive. >JE >Are there any chances that PMDF/Process would be purchased by HP andsH >integrated into VMS which woudl then gain a single , better developped, >messaging backbone ?r >a  M Unfortunately I rather think this is now impossible. Innosoft the company whoDK developed PMDF were purchased by SUN. As far as I am aware although ProcessgI is licensed to develop and support it PMDF is still legally owned by SUN. N (This is one of the reasons that a hobbyist version of PMDF is not available).  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS MIddlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:10:51 +0200s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>b: Subject: Re: how detect all batch queues in a VMS system ?) Message-ID: <3D2305EB.F789EAB9@gtech.com>i   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:pI > Im looking for a Pascal program to detect and show me all Batch queuesr > in a VMSsystem.e > How can I make this task ?    You will probably find the file:2   ftp://ftp.hhs.dk/pub/vms/utilities/utilities.zip or: =   http://www.hhs.dk/anonymous/pub/vms/utilities/utilities.zipi
 interesting !    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 09:52:25 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>o* Subject: Inquirer on Compaq/Digital merger8 Message-ID: <ome5iu84a26nkddshnjd72ckhcgt7vupa4@4ax.com>  ' http://www.theinquirer.net/03070203.htmt  ( Compaq and Digital: The Broader Picture   # II: Integration and disintegration a$ By uromole, 03/07/2002 08:10:52 BST    E YESTERDAY WE PUBLISHED information from sources within Compaq and therA events that took place in Europe about nine months after Compaq's-B acquisition of Digital. Our sources spoke of a Houston visitor whoF dictated the way that things would be done in future, and this was notD a future that included significant visibility of Digital products orC the "Digital way". Numerous conclusions can be drawn this situation.; and its ramifications for the high-end - and many would sayv% high-quality - products from Digital.PF Firstly, this visitor from Houston to Europe could not have been aloneF in his attitude to the ex-Digital products. A person who oversees EMEAD operations (or is perhaps above that by one or two levels) would notA have had a USA manager at equal level being supportive of Digital C products so it stands to reason that this attitude had to cut rightoD across the company at that level of management. Also, this is not anC attitude that can prevail at one senior level while those above are>B supportive of a product line and so it must be concluded that this0 attitude went all the way to the top of Compaq.   @ This would explain while folk such as the OpenVMS team in CompaqF showed great enthusiasm for the product but clearly lacked the backingA of management. The few times that Michael Capellas ever mentioneddC OpenVMS were when he was preaching to the choir at OpenVMS events. c  D Secondly, it was stated when Compaq bought Digital that it did so inF order to access Digital's highly regarded services division. As many aF customer will testify, this standard of work produced by this divisionE quickly nose-dived as the significant anti-Digital attitude in Compaq C ensured that the services sector received the same treatment as thef rest of the Digital brigade. t  A Another major reason that Compaq's then-CEO Pfeiffer gave for thecF purchase of Digital was that Compaq would benefit from the integration@ of DEC's enterprise systems, IT management and support. It is onB record that he expected 50% of revenue income by year 2000 to come@ from the enterprise sector. His ideas made a lot of sense but itC appears that he obtained little support in carrying out those plansh? and he left Compaq nine months after that acquisition, followed$D shortly thereafter by four senior colleagues. As a matter of record,F in year 2000, the enterprise sector returned 34% of revenue but 60% ofB the total profits, while the services sector returned about 27% ofA profit with 17% of revenue; personal computers - Compaq's classiceF products - took 49% of revenue but returned a mere 13% of the profits.  ? Pfeiffer is accused, possibly unfairly, of failing to integratetF Digital, his successor Capellas is given all the credit. The available= evidence suggests that it was not so much an integration as aa: suppression of all things Digital that gave an illusion ofC integration. Many observers made the assumption that if Digital wasi/ not visible then it must have been integrated. o  F Finally, this clear anti-Digital attitude running through Compaq would> explain the numerous complaints of customers who wanted to buyF high-end platforms but had NT systems thrust at them by Compaq's salesE people. It really was almost impossible to find a Compaq sales personiF who knew anything about OpenVMS or Tru64 Unix. Despite assurances fromC Compaq that this would be rectified, this situation continued until = customers became so frustrated that they either explore others: platforms or other sources for the platforms they wanted.   @ It is known that Compaq divided its potential market between itsE products. Windows would be sold at the low end, then to match product/? to customer demand for reliability the sequence was Tru64 Unix,eA OpenVMS and then Tandem. While this may appear to be a simplisticeA device for the benefit of the sales teams the reality was that itsA divided the market. Divide and conquer is the maxim. Or to put it-C another way, having divided the market, slowly conquer each segment D with Windows products because Compaq wanted Windows to be the future of computing.   B And the sales and marketing issues didn't stop at uninformed salesB staff because to back this notion of Windows-for-everything was an> advertising budget that was sent almost exclusively on WindowsF products. It is known that following a year when OpenVMS returned overD $400 million in profit, its annual advertising budget was a mere $12D million. PCs had the lions' share of marketing budget despite losingD more than $185 million in that corresponding year. Some may say thatF one must advertise poorly selling products but that argument is facileC if the products that you are neglecting produce 12 times the profiti margin.   D Compaq often paid lipservice to the ex-Digital products by extollingE their virtues to favourable audiences but almost never to the broadero@ potential market. In a presentation dated September 2001 Michael Capellas stated:    > "What OpenVMS has been for a very, very long time  available,C scalable, reliable, and easy to manage  is the foundation that theh= entire industry is moving toward today. These are things thata? e-commerce is demanding, and they are the inherent strengths of-E OpenVMS. Our OpenVMS solutions are also vital to customers around theo7 world, and we are committed to support and expand these: mission-critical solutions. o  B But this message went unheard and unseen by other than pro-OpenVMSC customers and users. As a consequence of this failure to market thenE high-end products the potential customers considered that the productn? was either deceased or soon would be, and when there was littlerD evident interest, Compaq declared that there was little or no demand# for proprietary operating systems. -  E Many observers have also claimed that Compaq choked on the merging oft? Digital and that this was why income dropped, but the financialiE statements reveal a very different story. The Access sector (ie. PCs)fB showed a loss of almost $440 million in 1999 and just $145 million@ profit in 2000. By contrast the Enterprise sector (predominantlyC products from Digital and Tandem) returned $675 million in 1999 and-E $1660 million in 2000. The aggregated profit for the years 98-00 showsF that the high-end systems returned almost 30 times the profit that PCsA generated - which was slightly less than $150 million despite theuF $55.5 billion that was spent on them. Without these high-end systems -F and the income from support and services associated with them - Compaq! would have been in dire straits.    B Almost without exception, whenever making statements about productE income Compaq would quote the revenue figures, figures that indicatedu$ a supposed-superiority of PC sales.   D Forgive us if we misunderstand basic business principles but it doesD seem to us that profit is more significant than revenue and that oneC should try to maximise that profit. Compaq clearly had other ideas. F Whether it was a case of Enron-style mathematics from board member KenA Lay is not clear; perhaps it was more that a shift of emphasis to,3 Boston would be a bitter pill to swallow in Texas. c  ; Why the stockholders would put up with this situation is aneE interesting question. If we recall correctly, just over 55% of CompaqoE stock was held by institutional stockholders. A large number of these E also held stocks in most of the major IT companies. To a large extentmE they did not care which company was making the money in IT so long asiD somebody was. As for the individual investors, it appears that thereD were few outside those directly involved with Compaq who held enoughE stocks to have much influence. Again, if they were large stockholdersoD chances are that they would also be playing the IT field and the upsC and downs of one company was pretty much irrelevant. In short there:B was no-one to call Compaq to task over their operations but it was- this that made them a real takeover target. 4   See Also% How Compaq created the Digital divides       -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:12:57 +0010f% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aui. Subject: Re: Inquirer on Compaq/Digital merger5 Message-ID: <01KJO5LLDA8Y00052L@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>   E >Secondly, it was stated when Compaq bought Digital that it did so invG >order to access Digital's highly regarded services division. As many a G >customer will testify, this standard of work produced by this divisionkF >quickly nose-dived as the significant anti-Digital attitude in CompaqD >ensured that the services sector received the same treatment as the >rest of the Digital brigade.     J Hmm, and in my HMO and experience, they screwed that bigtime, as you said.  H Our org was forced by Govt to outsource for corporate IT.  I was on the N committee that gave the contract to Digital.  When Compaq took over/overtook, M we started with the same contracting personnel who had done a good job under eL Digital maintaining corporate boxes.  For various reasons, these same (sub) L contractors left the flock.  Compaq did not get a contract renewal, but our N corporate has ended up with what to me are a worse bunch.  I think it was the M marriage feast of Canaan where they had to search the highways and byways to "N fill the seats at the reception.  Our contractors seem to have plucked people 0 from MacDonalds -- and this is on their C.V.s !!  J I am no longer involved in this because against Corporate policy, I still M maintain VMS boxes in our group.  Corporate is dedicated to UNIX (Tru64) and h Billy boxes.   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:48:55 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> . Subject: Re: Inquirer on Compaq/Digital merger1 Message-ID: <afuvfd$r9j$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>"  B I find it easy to believe that with mergers, come troubled waters.  K I find it hard to believe what were told about mergers, by those who brokern them.i   -- Dave...a  G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less- trouble. -----Mark Twain   2 <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message/ news:01KJO5LLDA8Y00052L@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au...aG > >Secondly, it was stated when Compaq bought Digital that it did so inFI > >order to access Digital's highly regarded services division. As many a I > >customer will testify, this standard of work produced by this divisionsH > >quickly nose-dived as the significant anti-Digital attitude in CompaqF > >ensured that the services sector received the same treatment as the > >rest of the Digital brigade.T >S >oL > Hmm, and in my HMO and experience, they screwed that bigtime, as you said. >1I > Our org was forced by Govt to outsource for corporate IT.  I was on the3@ > committee that gave the contract to Digital.  When Compaq took over/overtook,H > we started with the same contracting personnel who had done a good job underpG > Digital maintaining corporate boxes.  For various reasons, these sameY (sub)CI > contractors left the flock.  Compaq did not get a contract renewal, butI our1K > corporate has ended up with what to me are a worse bunch.  I think it wasW theCK > marriage feast of Canaan where they had to search the highways and byways  toH > fill the seats at the reception.  Our contractors seem to have plucked people2 > from MacDonalds -- and this is on their C.V.s !! >mK > I am no longer involved in this because against Corporate policy, I stillsJ > maintain VMS boxes in our group.  Corporate is dedicated to UNIX (Tru64) and  > Billy boxes. >h > Regards, Paddy >s   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 07:56:47 -0600 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)1 Subject: Re: Java file names3 Message-ID: <z36If+lBwu4h@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  c In article <DD339iwr3CO0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:9f > In article <55c497a4.0207011438.4a7615ee@posting.google.com>, sammy_thumbs@yahoo.com (Chuck) writes: >> 8 > G >    When you post some sample code you should make sure it really doesMI >    what you claim.  Nowhere in the above sample do you do anything thatlG >    will make the JRE consider the String args[0] to be a file name.   ( >    What you sample really produces is: >   3    OK, I take that back.  Depends on the setting of6D    JAVA$FILENAME_CONTROLS, and mine was not set as I thought it was.  (    But the important point is, it works:  % $ define abc user1:[koehler.terminal]e $ java hello abc:cwho.mmsp Filename /abc/cwho.mms- line <cwho.exe : cwho.obj> from /abc/cwho.mms7  treated as /abc/cwho.mms<  F    So what's the real code you're running, and what's the real problem    you're having?f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:15:53 +0200s= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> ' Subject: Re: Memo:  A pleasant surprisea) Message-ID: <3D22F908.3E642CA9@gtech.com>x  J > In an otherwise frustrating and serviceless world I am please to offer aM > ray of sunshine. A year ago I purchased a 500Mz Alpha from Island Computers1J > (who at the time did not have the specified 7.2K spin disk so supplied aK > 10K spin disk so as not to delay the order) and got it from USA to London M > in 2 days. In the UK you are lucky to get a return call in that time frame.n > M > I subsequently had a problem with the power supply and despite it being outcM > of the warranty period and entirely possible that this was a self inflictedEM > wound, David very kindly supplied a replacement part without quibble and asaB > I gathered later handled this from home as he was sick with flu! > J > It doesn't get better than this. My thanks for a fine service and if youK > want good Alphas from a good company who will provide excellent service -d > these are the guys.e  " IslandCo is always very helpfull !  4 I got a replacement CD drive shipped to Denmark also in just a few days.R   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 09:20:48 -0700 , From: srp336@getcoactive.com (Steve Pfister)# Subject: Microvax gathering dust...q= Message-ID: <45126e60.0207030820.19efe7d6@posting.google.com>   F I've got a Microvax that I bought off eBay a few months ago. I want toA reinstall the VMS on it, mainly because (a) I want something moreoC current than the v5.3 that's on it now, and (b) I don't have any ofO the passwords.  A Unfortunately, montagar.com is sold out of the Vax hobbyist kits.-B There's auctions on eBay every once in a great while, but I alwaysA seem to miss them. Are there any other sources for OpenVMS media?a  0 Or should I sell it and look for Alphas on eBay?   Thanks!@   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:29:58 -0400* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>' Subject: RE: Microvax gathering dust...u- Message-ID: <0033000071213174000002L042*@MHS>S   =0AWhat model of MicroVAX?  8 If you let us know where you are there might be somebody  with media in your neighborhood.   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET ' Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 12:19 PMoB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET# Subject: Microvax gathering dust...     F I've got a Microvax that I bought off eBay a few months ago. I want toA reinstall the VMS on it, mainly because (a) I want something moreeC current than the v5.3 that's on it now, and (b) I don't have any ofj the passwords.  A Unfortunately, montagar.com is sold out of the Vax hobbyist kits.mB There's auctions on eBay every once in a great while, but I alwaysA seem to miss them. Are there any other sources for OpenVMS media?B  0 Or should I sell it and look for Alphas on eBay?   Thanks!=   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:42:23 +0100i% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>n# Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3 Update 200i8 Message-ID: <o836iu871pejs5gqm1j1bjn9baf74pjd9m@4ax.com>  6 On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 06:50:12 -0700 (PDT), Fabio Cardoso! <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote::  6 >Any idea when the  OVMS 7.3 new update 200 (or better7 >Service Pack  2 ) will be launched. There are tons of r3 >7.3 patches after Update 100.... I will install ane >ES-40 with OVMS 7.3 ....   ' Don't forget 7.3-1 supposedly imminent.2   >Regards >T >FC  >T >===== >==========================o >Fbio dos Santos Cardosor >OpenVMS System Manageri >Rio de Janeiro - Brazil >fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.bro >==========================k >f3 >__________________________________________________w >Do You Yahoo!?u1 >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cupi >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:33:28 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  Subject: Re: parsing >255p2 Message-ID: <3D22EF18.6010809@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:   Jouk,a  J My apologies.  I did not change the to line.  I meant to send to Info-VAX, not a personal copy.  < Since I have now lost what I wrote, could you please send toG Info-VAX/comp.os.vms my reply on my behalf, as I hope this is a generalt! comment which may benefit others.c   Thanks,m   Regards, Paddy  
 jouk wrote  (  >paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:K  >> Jouk wrote (in response to Guy Peleg's saying that DCL command limit ise being   >> increased):d  >>a  >>sK  >>>Good that will certainly help. But why cannot the command string lengtheL  >>>not be allocated dynamically upon its need? Probably I will go over thisJ  >>>8192 bytes easily when link complicated programs using many objects inK  >>>many different directories. Now I split up because the 1024 limitation,t+  >>>but sometimes I need more than 8 parts.   >>C  >> I  >> Just a thought, why not use OLBs.  I doubt that you have each object   file in  >> a different directory.  >> J  >> This should also speed up linking as an .OLB is only one file to open, versus  >> each .OBJ.  >>tJ  >But you need the double diskspace, because you have to keep both the obj  >and olb on disk.E  >I wonder how efficient OLB's of a couple of GBytes are, not only on-J  >OpenVMS but also on other platforms since I like my makefiles except for(  >the prolog to be platform independent.  J Others have mentioned that you do not need to keep the .obj files once you
 have an .olb. K y "makefiles" are VMS, using MMS.  I am not sure about other platforms, buts! I believe UnIX is fairly similar.l  L My MMS scripts for our applications are fairly simple.  They detail elementsK of OLB files and then the relationship between the OBJ (which goes into thes OLB) and the Fortran/C source.  K Adding or removing modules is very easily done in the MMS script.  In fact,,L yesterday I just deleted two and added three for new functionality in one of4 our applications -- a simple edit of the MMS script.  F Again, others have said use a .OPT file.  All my applications refer toJ several different "sub" levels (general utilities, sparse routines, etc.).  G My MMS scripts also create SCA libraries or add to them and OLB's, and a at the; end delete all .OBJ and .ANA files.  Very simple to effect.   L We also weekly delete all executables, object libraries and SCA libraries to*   completely validate the MMS scripts too.  I Reduces length of DCL line, though as I inferred in an earlier response, o I doK find that sometimes my MMS command line gets rather long; but then I createi2 two input files -- similar to creating .OPT files.   Regards, Paddy  C For English purists, I sometimes write a or an before .OBJ/.OLB --  
 mentally I think dot obj, but just olb :-).   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:07:25 -07002 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com>* Subject: Re: postscript print from vms 5.42 Message-ID: <afv7gn$rrv$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  = Try ScriptServer from Graymatter Software (www.graysoft.com). ! It does what you want, plus more.t  ) pam <pam@rsc.anu.edu.au> wrote in messagee. news:pam-0307021507480001@petris.anu.edu.au...H > I need to print postscript files to a postscript printer on one of the( > serial ports on a vax running vms 5.4. >hE > I don't really need to print anything else except postscript files.a >.= > Does anybody know where I can find the commands to do this.c >uL > I have so far been able to send postscript commands to the printer and getJ > a pretty picture out but I haven't been able to get a postscript file to- > print on the printer through a print queue.n >o > thanks very much >h > pam  > -- > pam coheng pam@rsc.anu.edu.au > it manager > research school of chemistryE > the australian national university            (tel) +61-2-6125 4089rH > canberra, act 0200, australia                    (fax) +61-2-6125 0750   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:06:24 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u* Subject: Re: postscript print from vms 5.4, Message-ID: <3D232F10.14A8524B@videotron.ca>  
 pam wrote: > H > I need to print postscript files to a postscript printer on one of the( > serial ports on a vax running vms 5.4.  M There is a package called DCPS which does all sorts of postscript management,tL checking printer status etc (and on-the-fly conversion of text/ansi files toP postscript). Not sure if it run on VMS 5.4, perhaps not supported but workable ?  T There was a predecessor product to DCPS (I think it was CPS or something like that).  L Another option, since you only need to send postscript is to create a normalN "text" print queue that sends to the serial port. You will need to ensure thatG flow control is properly setup between the serial port and the printer.l  L If your postcript contains printable characters only (eg: images are encodedL in hex characters), then X-ON-/X-OFF will do fine (TTSYNC/HOSTSYNC). If yourH postscript contains unencoded binary data (such as that produced by someJ graphic software), then you need to provide hardware flow control (eg: you, need a serial port that has modem controls).  L At your version of VMS, there is no specific support by VMS of hardware flowM control though /COMMSYNC, but I found that the DHQ-11 (and DHV11) did supportdI it implicitely. Decservers whose ports also have modem csupport will havec  hardware flow control supported.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 08:58:22 -0700y' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>a8 Subject: Re: Powerstorm 300/350 cards and OpenGL on OVMS+ Message-ID: <3D231F1E.C244C39D@caltech.edu>a   Paul Repacholi wrote:y > 6 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > < > > In article <3D2088AF.2DCC8B53@caltech.edu>, David Mathog > > <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:5 > > > > >Have a look at the cards Xi supports on Linux or the many@ > > >OpenGL cards supported on Windows. We've been experimenting> > > >with a Radeon 8500 using the Xi driver on Linux and it is< > > >_incredibly_ fast and the whole system was about $1600. > A > > I believe VMS support for the Radeon 8500 is in the pipeline.s > E > 8500 or 7500? The 7500 is due to go into Field test from a previousr > post.b  A Lets hope its the 8500 since the 7500 has pretty much had its runn1 and ATI will probably start phasing it out soon. p   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:17:35 +0100, From: "Ian Dean" <Ian.d.dean@baesystems.com> Subject: Second X-terminal$ Message-ID: <3d22c019@pull.gecm.com>   Hi,lL     We have a remote X-terminal connected to our network via TCP/IP. This is" used mainly for displaying output.  K The X-terminal is booted from machine ALPHA and any other user on ALPHA canoE issue a SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/TRANSPORT=TCPIP (or ayA variant of) and any X_window output is correctly displayed on the  X-terminal.   J However, any user on machine BETA (on the same network and known to ALPHA)L that tries to issue a SET DISPLAY command followed by an X_window command is) informed that it cannot open the display.h  I Reading the documentation, it suggests that the remote device should have K the correct security level enabled. How is this achieved? Can it be done atl system startup?v  G It is interesting that if ANY user logs into this X-terminal on machine J BETA, any other user may issue the SET DISPLAY.. and their output is shown" correctly on the remote X-display.   TAI0     Ian2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 07:19:00 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: Second X-terminalJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0307020719000001@1cust91.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  / In article <3d22c019@pull.gecm.com>, "Ian Dean" " <Ian.d.dean@baesystems.com> wrote:   >Hi,M >    We have a remote X-terminal connected to our network via TCP/IP. This iss# >used mainly for displaying output.o >qL >The X-terminal is booted from machine ALPHA and any other user on ALPHA canF >issue a SET DISPLAY/CREATE/NODE=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/TRANSPORT=TCPIP (or aB >variant of) and any X_window output is correctly displayed on the >X-terminal. >rK >However, any user on machine BETA (on the same network and known to ALPHA)mM >that tries to issue a SET DISPLAY command followed by an X_window command isd* >informed that it cannot open the display. >oJ >Reading the documentation, it suggests that the remote device should haveL >the correct security level enabled. How is this achieved? Can it be done at >system startup?  H The X terminal has (in a menu or somewhere) security settings that allowJ certain remote systems to use the display.  It sounds like system ALPHA is9 enabled in the security settings, but system BETA is not.o  H It's possible that ALPHA is included automatically, since it boots the XH terminal.  More likely, someone enabled ALPHA in the X terminal, and the& settings are saved somewhere on ALPHA.  ; The details will depend greatly on the model of X terminal.-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:07:07 +0100, From: "Ian Dean" <Ian.d.dean@baesystems.com> Subject: Re: Second X-terminal& Message-ID: <3d23044f$1@pull.gecm.com>  J > The X terminal has (in a menu or somewhere) security settings that allowL > certain remote systems to use the display.  It sounds like system ALPHA is; > enabled in the security settings, but system BETA is not.u >tJ > It's possible that ALPHA is included automatically, since it boots the XJ > terminal.  More likely, someone enabled ALPHA in the X terminal, and the( > settings are saved somewhere on ALPHA. >w= > The details will depend greatly on the model of X terminal.s  L It may be of interest, but if the X-terminal is booted from BETA the problem is exactly reversed.  
 In summary4     Booted from ALPHA - output OK from ALPHA processC                                       - output OK from BETA ONLY ifc X_terminal logged in on BETA  2     Booted from BETA - output OK from BETA processL                                    - output OK from ALPHA ONLY if X_terminal logged in on ALPHA  5 This all occurs without ALPHA or BETA being rebooted.   K If it is a security problem, there is a security menu option to allow other,G servers, but this can only be set while on-line. Is there a system-wideb means of achieving this?   Regards,     Ian.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:48:06 +0200C= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>aD Subject: Re: Secure HTTP client app buildable under OpenVMS/OpenSSL?) Message-ID: <3D230EA6.EEAB27D4@gtech.com>o   Rich Jordan wrote:? > We're looking at the feasibility of building an OpenVMS basedrG > application to act as a client to a server-side app using secure http C > protocol over the internet (as defined by the server application,rB > which is not owned by us).  Does the current OpenSSL on VMS (andH > hopefully the included OpenSSL coming with V7.3-1) have the capabilityF > of providing the 'secure connectivity' for this type of application?D > We've dabbled in using straight http for in house (all on one LAN)B > apps, although it seems rather clumsy, but never worked with SSL	 > before.D   I would think so.o  9 OpenSSL is used for HTTPS by other VMS apps, so I can nots# see why it should not work for you..   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:48:35 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>d Subject: Re: SET WATCH questionr' Message-ID: <3D2300B3.4BB606@gtech.com>t   JF Mezei wrote:eL > In a SET WATCH FILE/CLASS=ALL question, when I see a "Deaccess", does this > mean $CLOSE ?s   No.    SYS$QIO(W) with IO$_DEACCESS.e   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 02:49:36 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o' Subject: Re: SMTP 8bit hack not workingn, Message-ID: <3D229E6C.51951DF7@videotron.ca>   Lawrence Bleau wrote:eH > This confirms that it picked up my settings properly.  However, when IG > am sent an email message contain 8-bit characters, they still come inaB > using the =xx notation (with xx being a 2-digit hex code).  ThisH > shouldn't happen.  Has anyone else noticed this problem and solved it?  I Not sure about your situation, but I know that my ISP's SMTP gateway will9N autoconvert 8bit chartacters to quoted printable and adds a line in the headerI to confirm this action was done. So while I am sending 8 bit messages, myl4 recipients still receiove quoted printable messages.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:46:42 GMTt( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>' Subject: Re: SMTP 8bit hack not workinge+ Message-ID: <3D2338D8.25A5118C@pacbell.net>    Lawrence Bleau wrote:m > G > Hi, it's me again, again about the SMTP package.  I'm running OpenVMSdE > AXP V7.1-2 and TCPIP V5.1 ECO 4.  I am having a problem using 8-bit 
 > characters.  > E > I have the EIGHT_BIT option set on the SMTP configuration, and I've E > defined the system logical name TCPIP$SMTP_8BITMIME_HACK to be "1".iF > this, according to the documentation, should be enough.  I made sureF > to restart the SMTP service after changing the EIGHT_BIT setting (it > used to be NOEIGHT_BIT). > H > I turned on debugging by setting the logical TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_DEBUG andF > looked at the log file TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG.  Below are two lines > from that file:r > & > Eightbit                      : TRUE& > 8BitMIME-Hack                 : TRUE > H > This confirms that it picked up my settings properly.  However, when IG > am sent an email message contain 8-bit characters, they still come inMB > using the =xx notation (with xx being a 2-digit hex code).  ThisH > shouldn't happen.  Has anyone else noticed this problem and solved it? > E > Now for the really weird part: Before I installed ECO 4, when I wasu? > running TCPIP V5.1 ECO 1, I left the configuration setting at G > NOEIGHT_BIT and defined the logical name TCPIP$SMTP_MIME_HACK, and it  > *worked*.o >  <snip>E Maybe because the logical meant nothing it was ignored. Stop defining3 TCPIP$SMTP_8BITMIME_HACK.rM I'm running VMS 7.2 w/ TCPIP 5.1 (no ECOs applied) and just have EIGHTBIT set.; without any TCPIP$SMTP* logicals defined and it works fine.   D Doc, it hurts when I raise my arm. Doc says, "don't raise your arm".   --     Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com)i
 San Francisco-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 04:45:47 -04003- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>N2 Subject: Strangeness in XABKEYDEF.H (xab$w_pos[8]), Message-ID: <3D22B9B9.32A46CD6@videotron.ca>  ! VAX-VMS 7.2, DEC C 6.0 (I think).   M The XABKEYDEF.H  include file defines the segmented keys values as a union ofeE 2 items, one is an array or 8 items (xab$w_pos[8]) and the other is a 2 structure of individual fields (pos0 though pos7).  1 Then, it uses #defines to make shortcuts so that  . #define xab$w_pos 	xab$r_pos_overlay.xab$w_pos@ #define xab$w_pos0	xab$r_pos_overlay.xab$r_pos_fields.xab$w_pos0 (etc for pos0 to pos7)  < That sounds fine.... However, later on in the module it has:   #ifndef __cplusplus, #undef xab$w_pos #undef xab$b_siz #undef xab$b_typ #define xab$w_pos xab$w_pos0 #define xab$b_siz xab$w_siz0 #define xab$b_typ xab$w_typ0 #endif    2 Now, as a result of this, a piece of code such as:  8 	if ( dsab_rms->xabkey[x].xab$w_pos[y]  == myinteger )    
 It then says:S  H 	dsab_rms->xabkey[x]xab$r_pos_overlay.xab$r_pos_fields.xab$w_pos0 has anD unsigned short type but occurs in a context that requires a pointer.  F I assume that it gets confused because I am suplying an array index toL xab$w_pos but it gets mapped to a single unsigned int inside a structure and. since that isn't an array, it doesn't like it.    M Has this problem been fixed in later releases, if so, what fix was made ? Can_K I just remove the part that redefines the xab$w_pos to pos0  ?  Why are thei) values undefined/broken if it isn't C++ ?:  I My concern is that I will find a fix to make it work, but that this woulde6 break in a new release, so I would rather do it right.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:35:26 GMT0# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>'0 Subject: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)D Message-ID: <OYDU8.169$zGH.155@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  F North Broward Hospital District Adds HP AlphaServer Systems to Support Paperless Records SystemL http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APSGc.hayTm9 ydGgg   I It would be nice to know if this was a *new* win or just an upgrade of ang existing installation.      > HP Superdome Server Shatters Java Performance Benchmark RecordL http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APSCm1RbPSFA gU3Vwc  L What's the betting line that Alpha's aren't benchmarked any more for reasons@ of optics (ie. can't show that a non-unix, dead processor family
 outperforms)?a      G ADVISORY/HP to Hold Media Teleconference on Strategy for New TechnologyeL http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APSBScxTFQUR WSVNP   * Any ideas about this? Is it IA-64 related?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:40:56 -0500h( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)8 Message-ID: <uj66iughepfvhtopahvkhmbkq5ketm72tn@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:35:26 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  G >North Broward Hospital District Adds HP AlphaServer Systems to Supportm >Paperless Records System M >http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APSGc.hayTm9h >ydGgg >oJ >It would be nice to know if this was a *new* win or just an upgrade of an >existing installation.u >a  M I'm guessing here, but I've talked to the admins at North Broward a couple offJ times about their systems.  So, it is an upgrade of an existing Cerner/VMS! system, not a new implementation.e   Still nice, but.....   Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204,I                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634iG Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999S 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:31:14 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 4 Subject: RE: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607EB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,d  C Cerner is one of the big players in the medical field. As I recall,n( Cerner only runs on AIX, W2K or OpenVMS.   Testimonial:/ http://www.cerner.com/Technologies/database.aspy7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/   F As to the bet that new AlphaServers (EV7?) will not be benchmarked.. I# would be willing to take that bet..J   :-)    Regards7  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantn Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicess Voice: 613-592-4660v Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20p Sent: July 3, 2002 10:35 AMu To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 Subject: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)    F North Broward Hospital District Adds HP AlphaServer Systems to Support Paperless Records SystemJ http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=3Dmarketsquote99_news.ht&s=3DAPSGc= ha yTm9 ydGgg   F It would be nice to know if this was a *new* win or just an upgrade of an existing installation.o      > HP Superdome Server Shatters Java Performance Benchmark RecordJ http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=3Dmarketsquote99_news.ht&s=3DAPSCm= 1Rbp PSFA gU3Vw   D What's the betting line that Alpha's aren't benchmarked any more forH reasons of optics (ie. can't show that a non-unix, dead processor family
 outperforms)?       G ADVISORY/HP to Hold Media Teleconference on Strategy for New Technology J http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=3Dmarketsquote99_news.ht&s=3DAPSBS= cxT0 FQUR WSVNP0  * Any ideas about this? Is it IA-64 related?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 16:45:18 GMT.1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>t4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)- Message-ID: <xSFU8.73139$Uu2.12304@sccrnsc03>.  2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607EB@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. .. John,   C Cerner is one of the big players in the medical field. As I recall, ( Cerner only runs on AIX, W2K or OpenVMS.   Testimonial:/ http://www.cerner.com/Technologies/database.aspk7 http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/brochures/cerner/o  F As to the bet that new AlphaServers (EV7?) will not be benchmarked.. I# would be willing to take that bet..    So would I. ;-}p   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 06:59:36 +0100o( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: UAF questions( Message-ID: <3D2292C8.85FBE8C@127.0.0.1>   "Alan E. Feldman" wrote: >    > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER]t! > $ RENAME [000000]JOE.DIR [USER]r" > $ RENAME [000000]MARY.DIR [USER]F > etc., for existing users. Note that renaming directories will result  B It would be a good idea to warn your users this is happening. WithH having different types of login environment on many systems [here], someF similar to the one in this thread, my 'portable' routines to customizeH my environment fell over. I've recoded then to cope with all situations,F but it's possible in doing this you may break things you are not aware of.i   -- g? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com-   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 06:39:23 -0700 . From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: UAF questions< Message-ID: <343f30ae.0207030539.cc9c862@posting.google.com>  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D2271A3.61C22648@videotron.ca>...  > "Alan E. Feldman" wrote:! > > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE]e" > > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY] > > etc., for new users and  >  > Pedantic mode here:a > ' > CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE]/OWNER=JOE ) > CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY]/OWNER=MARY  > N > If you omit the /OWNER, then it .JOE and .MARY will be created with the sameK > owner as USER and likely that users JOE and MARY won't be abvle to access ; > files in that directory if they do not have access to it.i    ? Oops. You're right. Sorry for the goof. Thanks for catching it.e     Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman gfigroup comb   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:40:02 +0200# From: "Domen" <domen.setar@izum.si>X Subject: Upgrade problem!n. Message-ID: <afu685$q1j$1@strelovod.uni-mb.si>  
 Hi admins!  K I want to upgrade AlphaServer DS10 from V7.1-2 (with all necessary patches)o= to V7.3. At the beginning of execution phase I get a message:I  J PCSI-E-PARUDF, file [SYSLIB]SYS$STARLET_C.TLB was not previously installed5 or is present but out of scope; module update skippedh  J I tried to make upgrade to other versions V7.2, V7.2-1, but the problem is	 the same. & Does anyone knows what is the problem?   Best regards Domeny   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:59:11 +1000* From: "Dale King" <dalek@forpresident.com>8 Subject: Re: Using GNU C on OpenVMS FAQ (Looking for it)' Message-ID: <afu7bv$mp5$1@lore.csc.com>g  = "Frits A.M. Storms" <frits@storms.tmfweb.nl> wrote in messagee9 news:3d2189aa$0$94890$e4fe514c@dreader3.news.xs4all.nl...t  J > Could someone point me to the FAQ or mail me a copy or tell me what I am@ > doing wrong (if that is at all possible with this much code) ?  M Can't help with the FAQ, but from memory you need to use the GCC link command3P procedure to link with the GNU version of the run time library which knows aboutN GCC's interpretation of main().  The message you describe means the VMS linker can't find a main().   Hope this helps.   Dale   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:59:07 +0200b2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)8 Subject: Re: Using GNU C on OpenVMS FAQ (Looking for it); Message-ID: <3d231f4b.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o  1 Frits A.M. Storms (frits@storms.tmfweb.nl) wrote: 8 > When linking the object of the small c-program below : > #include <stdio.h>	 > main( )S > {S  >     printf("Hello World !\n"); > }m   > When > $ LINK/NOTRACE HELLO	 > I get :i> > %LINK-W-USRTFR, image HELLO.EXE has no user transfer address  I IIRC, you have to link against the GNU C startup code (filename CRT... ?)e$ which provides the main entry point.   cu,h   Martin -- sG  Your mouse has moved.     | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmers4  Windows must be restarted | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deH  for the change to take    |    http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/;  effect. Reboot now? [OK]  | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dee   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:42:17 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>e Subject: Re: VMS 64bitness1 Message-ID: <afuv6v$r97$1@fizban.pprd.abbott.com>-  4 Thanks for settin' the world straight on this Glenn.   -- Dave....  G It is noble to teach oneself, but still nobler to teach others-and less4 trouble. -----Mark Twain   K "G Everhart" <ge@gce.com> wrote in message news:3D21FF8C.7000202@gce.com... J > VMS is NOT a 32 bit system with a few 64 bit extensions in any meaninfulI > sense, not since 7.0. Almost every internal function will accept 64 bithK > arguments, as will the drivers, control blocks and so on. There are a fewiJ > residue areas that are in 32 bit only space (notably FIBs, for those fewL > who know what those are). These structures are generally used by internalsJ > folks, are small, and impose no particular hardship on anyone for living in% > S0 or S1 space instead of S2 or P2.s >aK > The design document for the initial 64 bit port was ~1000 pages long with  details L > all over. Look at what the DIOBM structure does for you, if you want. This wasfJ > an exceedingly clever system that allowed VMS-supplied code to hide much of theH > 64 bit mapping complexity from driver writers. It is hidden, but it is
 there, andD > DMA transfers can and do routinely take place into or out of space anywhere in then( > 64 bit range, without extra buffering. >bJ > The initial reports about Windows NT 64 bit were that it was indeed a 32
 bit systemJ > with a few add-ons to access 64 bit space, but without paging or mapping saveJ > a constant mapping above 32 bit space, buffering transfers in low memory	 and doingPL > processor copy, and a few more bits. I don't know if Windows is still like thatK > or not, but at one time it was very much a mislabelled 32 bit system with 
 the neededF > few minimal hacks to allow it to use fixed large buffers in extended memory. That isoK > not entirely useless: it is what one needs to get very large databases tod	 work withoL > indices in memory, for example, and if the programmer sees I/O into or out of this)F > extended memory, it may not matter to him that it is buffered in low memory somewhereI > since the overwhelming database advantage is derived from being able to  search hugehK > memory arrays and that advantage is not lost by crockish hacks to fill orn empty them.n >  > Glenn Everhart >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 17:04:58 +0100 ( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: VMS 64bitness) Message-ID: <3D2320AA.5ED0B299@127.0.0.1><   G Everhart wrote:m > ...j   This is also true:  H win95 == 32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to anC 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor,sB written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.   @ (Written in the days before W98, but true even before XP hit the streets). Origin unknown.f -- .? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot com1   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:54:42 +0100k% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>h' Subject: Re: when is a typo not a typo?88 Message-ID: <c8v5iukg7vuhuje5a02hui1i2l61diue5o@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 12:32:53 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Paul Sture wrote: >>  c >> In article <afi7b6$2nmc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 8 >> > In article <oNjUYmkWHxSX@eisner.encompasserve.org>,5 >> >  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:m >> > |>8. >> > |>    Stuff this is you favorite browser: >> > |>t  >> > |>    www.openvms.copaq.com >> > |>- >> > |>    That's right: copaq.: >> > |>t >> >0 >> > I got nothing.  Couldn't connect to server. >> >Q >> I got a connection timeout. The server certainly exists and is registered to ae >> private individual. >m: >I got some cycle thing on Friday. This morning - nothing.  F Hmm, I got some "helper page" which suggested I try www.process.com as the closest match.  A >It is probably the "copaq.com" domain, and the [a] DNS server is 6 >matching any domains below it in hierarchical order.   B My favourite was a senior Business Studies lecturer at my previousB employer who came to us one day asking us to remove the virus thatD kept generating pornography on his PC. After investigation it turnedA out that he routinely typed in the URL www.hotmale.com instead ofdC www.hotmail.com. At that time the hotmale address redirected to themD hotmail website (so he didn't immediately realise his typo) but alsoC fired up a few windows (which might have been somehow time delayed)s full of gay porn.H  E I just did a quick check (which will look interesting on our firewall A logs) and hotmale.com still connects to a porn site but no longere< redirects to the hotmail site. I suspect Microsoft's lawyers intervened.n   -- Alan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:30:08 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>e' Subject: RE: when is a typo not a typo? T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9242@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Alan,a   Re: typos in url's ..h  C Yep, may porn sites have purposely made their domain names close tonE respectable sites with the view of increasing the hits to their sites  when typo mistakes are made..s  H Best example I have heard of is www.whitehouse.com vs www.whitehouse.gov   Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----/ From: Alan Greig [mailto:a.greig@virgin.net]=20K Sent: July 3, 2002 9:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv' Subject: Re: when is a typo not a typo?     F On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 12:32:53 +0100, Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:   >Paul Sture wrote: >>=20r2 >> In article <afi7b6$2nmc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>,=206 >> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:8 >> > In article <oNjUYmkWHxSX@eisner.encompasserve.org>,5 >> >  koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:0 >> > |>s. >> > |>    Stuff this is you favorite browser: >> > |>s  >> > |>    www.openvms.copaq.com >> > |>n >> > |>    That's right: copaq.  >> > |>u >> >0 >> > I got nothing.  Couldn't connect to server. >> >D >> I got a connection timeout. The server certainly exists and is=20& >> registered to a private individual. >t: >I got some cycle thing on Friday. This morning - nothing.  F Hmm, I got some "helper page" which suggested I try www.process.com as the closest match.  D >It is probably the "copaq.com" domain, and the [a] DNS server is=205 >matching any domains below it in hierarchical order.t  B My favourite was a senior Business Studies lecturer at my previousG employer who came to us one day asking us to remove the virus that keptnH generating pornography on his PC. After investigation it turned out that8 he routinely typed in the URL www.hotmale.com instead ofC www.hotmail.com. At that time the hotmale address redirected to thesD hotmail website (so he didn't immediately realise his typo) but alsoH fired up a few windows (which might have been somehow time delayed) full of gay porn.  E I just did a quick check (which will look interesting on our firewall1A logs) and hotmale.com still connects to a porn site but no longerHH redirects to the hotmail site. I suspect Microsoft's lawyers intervened.   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:33:40 -0400t2 From: Atlant Schmidt <atlantnospam@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: when is a typo not a typo?9. Message-ID: <3D232764.9B612770@mindspring.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:  J > Best example I have heard of is www.whitehouse.com vs www.whitehouse.gov  * Neither one, of course, holds a candle to:     http://www.whitehouse.org/   Atlant   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 04:17:15 -0700t From: br@b-con.dk (Bendix Riis)c+ Subject: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMSc= Message-ID: <9946d62e.0207030317.1ca67333@posting.google.com>a  E I have set up a linux box running samba that via nfs-mount has accessn+ to a directory on a VAX running VMS v5.5-2.TF Windows PC's can connect to the samba share and copy files to and from VMS.B Everything works fine except that when VMS print or text files are9 read in windows they have a wrong format - cr lf missing..D Is it possible to set up the system to convert/filter the files when( reading/copying them from VMS to the PC?   Bendix Riis  B-con2 e-mail: br@b-con.dkh   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 07:12:53 -0600A- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e" Subject: [OT] AS/400 Success Story3 Message-ID: <yo5G9c1rYpWk@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  E Thank goodness VMS Marketing did not choose this as a market segment:r  ; 	http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41206,00.htmls   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:02:57 +00002 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story3 Message-ID: <20020703130257.B8058@eisenschmidt.org>o  U You know, I'm going to take the chance at being flaimbait, and say what I'm thinking.a   I have two thoughts on this:  z(1) Just because Colombian drug lords bought and used an AS/400 to run their cartel probably won't affect anyone's next AS/400 purchase. It *might* make a first time purchaser think twice, but how many of those are there a year? Three? If a bank has thousands of 20 year old RPG programs that run their shop 24/7 and they just need a faster box, I doubt they'd even think twice.   (2) As bad as this is to say, money is money. I'm pretty sure when you come to a computer company with 1.5 million dollars in cash (even if they are $20 bills they are a little "dusty") they're going to sell you what you want.  Q I miss the AS/400 I used to administer. Does this mean I could issue the command:    stpdrgwr  F And millions of dollars would suddenly flow back into social programs?  N Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) Wrote:G > Thank goodness VMS Marketing did not choose this as a market segment:  > = > 	http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41206,00.htmla   -- s/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>66  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc D  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  M  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.htmlS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 09:13:37 -0400c! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>s& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story' Message-ID: <3D22F881.ECCD0719@vcu.edu>w   good Lord.............   e  
 Jim Agnew.       Larry Kilgallen wrote: > G > Thank goodness VMS Marketing did not choose this as a market segment:f > D >         http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41206,00.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:38:30 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>,& Subject: RE: [OT] AS/400 Success StoryT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607E7@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John,o  F I think the disturbing and scary issue about this story has less to doF with the type of system they were using, but rather the sophistication& with which that system was being used.   Regards.  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesi Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----< From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jweisen@eisenschmidt.org]=20 Sent: July 3, 2002 9:03 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story    G You know, I'm going to take the chance at being flaimbait, and say whatt
 I'm thinking..   I have two thoughts on this:  F (1) Just because Colombian drug lords bought and used an AS/400 to runD their cartel probably won't affect anyone's next AS/400 purchase. ItF *might* make a first time purchaser think twice, but how many of thoseC are there a year? Three? If a bank has thousands of 20 year old RPGnD programs that run their shop 24/7 and they just need a faster box, I doubt they'd even think twice.  F (2) As bad as this is to say, money is money. I'm pretty sure when youD come to a computer company with 1.5 million dollars in cash (even ifG they are $20 bills they are a little "dusty") they're going to sell youd what you want.  H I miss the AS/400 I used to administer. Does this mean I could issue the command:   stpdrgwr  F And millions of dollars would suddenly flow back into social programs?  G Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net)i Wrote:G > Thank goodness VMS Marketing did not choose this as a market segment:i >=20= > 	http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41206,00.htmln   --=20e/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>-6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen  GPG Public Key  |: http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.ascD  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  !  This mail is an attachment? Read3+ http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 07:40:18 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>r& Subject: RE: [OT] AS/400 Success Story9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEJPFEAA.tom@kednos.com>Y  ! Look what has become of the OS400u- http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/eI In fact, go up one level and look at all their servers, rather formidablew competition fot hpq.     >-----Original Message-----t- >From: Main, Kerry [mailto:Kerry.Main@hp.com]e' >Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 7:39 AMt >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >Subject: RE: [OT] AS/400 Success Story  >b >  >John, >-G >I think the disturbing and scary issue about this story has less to do G >with the type of system they were using, but rather the sophistication1' >with which that system was being used.  >a >Regards >  >Kerry MainS >Senior Consultant >Hewlett-Packard Canada " >Consulting & Integration Services >Voice: 613-592-4660 >Fax   : 613-591-4477f >Email: Kerry.Main@hp.comL >a >o >-----Original Message----- : >From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jweisen@eisenschmidt.org] >Sent: July 3, 2002 9:03 AMi >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com' >Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Storyh >i >hH >You know, I'm going to take the chance at being flaimbait, and say what >I'm thinking. >  >I have two thoughts on this:g >dG >(1) Just because Colombian drug lords bought and used an AS/400 to runfE >their cartel probably won't affect anyone's next AS/400 purchase. It G >*might* make a first time purchaser think twice, but how many of thosecD >are there a year? Three? If a bank has thousands of 20 year old RPGE >programs that run their shop 24/7 and they just need a faster box, Ip >doubt they'd even think twice.  >'G >(2) As bad as this is to say, money is money. I'm pretty sure when you3E >come to a computer company with 1.5 million dollars in cash (even ifkH >they are $20 bills they are a little "dusty") they're going to sell you >what you want.  >'I >I miss the AS/400 I used to administer. Does this mean I could issue the-	 >command:  >,	 >stpdrgwr2 >:G >And millions of dollars would suddenly flow back into social programs?: >:H >Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net) >Wrote:7H >> Thank goodness VMS Marketing did not choose this as a market segment: >>> >> 	http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41206,00.html >e >--i0 >John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>7 > Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweiseni > GPG Public Key  |m; >http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asctE > GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2d >t" > This mail is an attachment? Read, >http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html >l >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).kA >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >? --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:54:32 GMT-1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>l& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story. Message-ID: <IeEU8.399188$cQ3.26881@sccrnsc01>  . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message3 news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEJPFEAA.tom@kednos.com...2# > Look what has become of the OS400y/ > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/lK > In fact, go up one level and look at all their servers, rather formidable  > competition fot hpq. >i  I Yep. Hey, why do you think Carly and Curly got the urge to merge, anyhow?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:26:03 +00002 From: John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story4 Message-ID: <20020703152603.E10069@eisenschmidt.org>   IBM never sleeps.2   I've been out of the blue loop for a couple years now, and I know they both use the Power 4 chip, but from what I've read it looks like the AS/400 and the RS/6000 are the same hardware. How scary is that? m  B Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Tom Linden (tom@kednos.com) Wrote:# > Look what has become of the OS400s/ > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/aK > In fact, go up one level and look at all their servers, rather formidablet > competition fot hpq. >  >  > >-----Original Message-----u/ > >From: Main, Kerry [mailto:Kerry.Main@hp.com] ) > >Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 7:39 AM6 > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) > >Subject: RE: [OT] AS/400 Success Storyo > >  > >p > >John, > >tI > >I think the disturbing and scary issue about this story has less to doII > >with the type of system they were using, but rather the sophistications) > >with which that system was being used.  > > 
 > >Regards > >i
 > >Kerry Mainl > >Senior Consultant > >Hewlett-Packard Canadao$ > >Consulting & Integration Services > >Voice: 613-592-4660 > >Fax   : 613-591-4477t > >Email: Kerry.Main@hp.comm > >, > >e > >-----Original Message-----e< > >From: John Eisenschmidt [mailto:jweisen@eisenschmidt.org] > >Sent: July 3, 2002 9:03 AM  > >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com) > >Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Storyd > >d > > J > >You know, I'm going to take the chance at being flaimbait, and say what > >I'm thinking. > >i > >I have two thoughts on this:  > >aI > >(1) Just because Colombian drug lords bought and used an AS/400 to run G > >their cartel probably won't affect anyone's next AS/400 purchase. IteI > >*might* make a first time purchaser think twice, but how many of thosejF > >are there a year? Three? If a bank has thousands of 20 year old RPGG > >programs that run their shop 24/7 and they just need a faster box, I ! > >doubt they'd even think twice.a > >tI > >(2) As bad as this is to say, money is money. I'm pretty sure when youfG > >come to a computer company with 1.5 million dollars in cash (even if.J > >they are $20 bills they are a little "dusty") they're going to sell you > >what you want.- > >-K > >I miss the AS/400 I used to administer. Does this mean I could issue theG > >command:@ > >n > >stpdrgwrc > >:I > >And millions of dollars would suddenly flow back into social programs?5 > >.J > >Unless the Voices are Mistaken, Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@SpamCop.net)	 > >Wrote: J > >> Thank goodness VMS Marketing did not choose this as a market segment: > >>@ > >> 	http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41206,00.html > >k   -- i/ John W. Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org>e6  Homepage URL    | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisenM  GPG Public Key  | http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen/misc/jeisenschmidt.asc>D  GPG Fingerprint | 5F9B F916 5AD1 3295 CF99 BC1E 1F97 E6A3 37E3 BEF2  P  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.en.html   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 15:49:25 GMT ( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story0 Message-ID: <afv6e5$9ul$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  4 In article <20020703152603.E10069@eisenschmidt.org>,4 John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes: |> IBM never sleeps. |> hD |> I've been out of the blue loop for a couple years now, and I knowC |> they both use the Power 4 chip, but from what I've read it looks D |> like the AS/400 and the RS/6000 are the same hardware.  How scary |> is that?   ? For whom?  As a manager of an RS/6000-based system (POWER3, notw? POWER4), the basic hardware is pretty good.  All my informationm? is that the POWER4 will be similar.  As with most other serious < large-system vendors, software issues account for 90% of the effort.d  = Standardising on hardware is very reasonable - after all, DECo@ did it twice, being flamed internally and externally both times,9 and both projects succeeded.   This is independent of thes? question of whether HP/Compaq have chosen the right hardware to- standardise on.-     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679c   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Jul 2002 15:18:35 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story, Message-ID: <afv4kb$2tj4$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  . In article <IeEU8.399188$cQ3.26881@sccrnsc01>,4  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: |> r1 |> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message 6 |> news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEJPFEAA.tom@kednos.com...& |> > Look what has become of the OS4002 |> > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/N |> > In fact, go up one level and look at all their servers, rather formidable |> > competition fot hpq.: |> > |> tL |> Yep. Hey, why do you think Carly and Curly got the urge to merge, anyhow?  D So that IBM would only have one company instead of two to trive into
 the dirt??   bill   -- >J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:58:42 GMTp1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> & Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story. Message-ID: <SaFU8.399537$cQ3.27332@sccrnsc01>  > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message& news:afv4kb$2tj4$1@info.cs.uofs.edu...0 > In article <IeEU8.399188$cQ3.26881@sccrnsc01>,6 >  "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: > |>3 > |> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in messagei8 > |> news:CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIMEJPFEAA.tom@kednos.com...( > |> > Look what has become of the OS4004 > |> > http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/E > |> > In fact, go up one level and look at all their servers, ratherp
 formidable > |> > competition fot hpq.e > |> > > |>F > |> Yep. Hey, why do you think Carly and Curly got the urge to merge, anyhow?t > F > So that IBM would only have one company instead of two to trive into > the dirt?? >  > bill  H Exactly. Driving a $35B company into the dirt is a walk in the park when2 compared to driving an $80B company into the dirt.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:51:40 +0100o% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>e( Subject: Re: [OT] The Joy of ... Mergers8 Message-ID: <4p36iu86b1qglk5vs435tb064r1ejk23bn@4ax.com>  E On 2 Jul 2002 08:05:42 -0600, koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)S wrote:  i >In article <20020701185430.C1920@eisenschmidt.org>, John Eisenschmidt <jweisen@eisenschmidt.org> writes:rN >> I didn't see anyone post this before, and I thought you all might enjoy it. >> c< >> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/311.html >e >   That was good. >iP >>  This mail is an attachment? Read http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.html > D >   I had to run that through Babelfish, but it was pretty good too.   There's an English version at4? http://www.jensbenecke.de/misc/outlook.en.html (or click on the @ "English" link at top right. I missed it the first time as well. -- Alan   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.363 ************************