1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 05 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 366       Contents:< Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ?8 Re: Bios Password reset for DEC3000/400 and/or VS4000/90 Re: DCL Backup Script @ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC' DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! + Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! + Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! P Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... Re: fun with pipe  Re: Last 3 weeks on c.o.v. LGI_BRK_DISUSER and batch job? Re: Microvax gathering dust...+ Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)  Re: parsing >255 Re: Pascal Editor  Re: Pascal Editor  Re: Quorum discussion/questions 8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations+ Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)  Re: UAF questions  Re: UAF questions  Re: Unable to ZIP a file& Re: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMS& Re: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMS& Re: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMS Re: wow  Re: wow  Re: wow  Re: wow P [OT]  Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ? Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 21:31:46 +0200 (CEST) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>E Subject: Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ? I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207042107570.1479-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   # On 4 Jul 2002, Simon Clubley wrote:   I >+How do I get access to the DCL recall buffer from a command procedure ?  >+L >+I want to be able to read the commands in the buffer, manipulate them, and2 >+add any modified ones back to the recall buffer.  @  Have do something like, must re-check and warn what is wrong :)"  My need was with RECALL/FIND= -:)A  Excuse me - not this week, at least not today nor tomorrow: must 	 be out... :  The code (DCL) uses PIPE and MP-mailboxes, unfortunatelly6 the 2-kB "DCL only MB/MP" limit can hang the sequence.  K >+The obvious answer, RECALL/OUT and RECALL/IN, doesn't appear to work in a O >+command procedure (which raises the question of how _do_ people automatically  >+save    Nothing hard with PIPE:8 $ LOGOUT:==PIPE RECALL/OUT=SYS$LOGIN:RECALL.TXT ; LOGOUT  @  You *always* must substitute 'someway' LOGOUT command, be aware the LOGOUT substitutes :) (EOJ)    >+ and restore command history  '  Sure, requires one pseudocommand like: . $ HI*STORY:=RECALL/INPUT=SYS$LOGIN:/RECALL.TXT  = - but you can comment this as a "great feature, you normally   have clean recall buffer" ;)    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:16:46 -0400! From: "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com> A Subject: Re: Bios Password reset for DEC3000/400 and/or VS4000/90 + Message-ID: <ag2ad7$qdm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   K Actually I was just wanting to prevent someone from accidently enabling it, H (security nazi's I'm sure like to sound of enabling passwords even if itK disables a machine).  It is not currently enabled, but when I select to set 5 the Password I don't know the old so it always fails. = Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message D news:rdeininger-0307021943200001@1cust96.tnt1.nashua.nh.da.uu.net...I > In article <afvq56$al5$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com>  wrote: > G > >I have set up to VMS workstation on the above machine.  I everything J > >installed and the BIOS password is not set right now.  But I don't know the > > >old password in order to change and enable it.  Anybody???? > G > Please describe the current state of the console ("BIOS") password in E > detail, and explain what you want to do, and maybe we can help you.  > I > The DEC 3000 needs a jumper set a certain way, plus a couple of console J > commands, to enable the console password.  Disabling the password if you5 > don't know it requires one additional bit of magic.  > , > I don't know about the VAXstation offhand. > I > Do you really need a console password?  Anyone with enough knowledge to H > break into VMS from the console probably also knows how to disable theE > console password.  Maybe what you need is an armed guard to prevent ! > physical access to the machine.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 19:09:14 +0100 + From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>  Subject: Re: DCL Backup Script& Message-ID: <3D248F4A.7040709@iee.org>   Rob Kersey wrote:   E > I have written the following .com file that is desinged to backup a D > .log file that is continually being accessed and then opened in an > editor to be read. > F > It seems that I can't pass in a symbol as the file name to be backed > up!      [snip]  " > $          LOGS = FILEPATH + LOG; > $          BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK LOGS TEMP.BCK /SAV/LOG     3 You need to tell DCL to substitute the value of the " symbol LOGS into the command line:  5    $ BACKUP/IGNORE=INTERLOCK 'LOGS' TEMP.BCK /SAV/LOG    (note the single quotes)   Antonio    --     --------------- - Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jul 2002 05:11:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC - Message-ID: <87elejw64r.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:   A > 	case to be made.  Last I checked Power4 and UltraSparc had far 3 > 	fewer OSes to offer and far fewer manufacturers.   C You had better look again, there are several manufacturers. Fugutsu D for one, and prob Hitachi as well. Andrew will know the current list	 I'm sure.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 20:38:02 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> 0 Subject: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !/ Message-ID: <ui9qgp9f165ea4@news.supernews.com>   E Anyone willing to offer testimonial on the DS10L's we are selling ???   ! We still have a quantity in stock  DS10L 466Mhz EV6 CPU 2MB cache 512MB Memory (2 x 256) 40GB ATA100 7200RPM Disk CDROM and Floppy Dual 10/100 Ethernet
 Power Cord   $950   Or   DS10L 466Mhz EV6 CPU 2MB cache 1GB Memory (2 x 256) 40GB ATA100 7200RPM Disk CDROM and Floppy Dual 10/100 Ethernet
 Power Cord   $1240    Or   DS10L 466Mhz EV6 CPU 2MB cache 512MB Memory (2 x 256) 40GB ATA100 7200RPM Disk CDROM and Floppy% 3DLabs VX1 Oxygen 32MB PCI Video Card  Dual 10/100 Ethernet
 Power Cord     -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332  International: 001 912 447 6622   Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net  www.hpaq.net       -- Island Computers US Corp.  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332  International: 001 912 447 6622   Facsimile:      001 912 201 0096 dbturner@hpaq.net  www.hpaq.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 20:55:30 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> 4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !2 Message-ID: <3D24EE82.4CCCF59C@firstdbasource.com>   "Island (hpaq.net)" wrote: >  > $950 >  > Or >   > DS10L 466Mhz EV6 CPU 2MB cache > 1GB Memory (2 x 256)   Shouldn't that be 4 x 256?   > 40GB ATA100 7200RPM Disk > CDROM and Floppy > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > Power Cord >  > $1240   A Compaq uses these as their "demo" systems for Oracle9iRAC because @ with 2 +  a storage works disk array fits nicely into a suitcaseA (albeit a large one) and  they even demonstrate what happens when > you lose a node by yanking the power cord etc...  Pretty slick stuff.  ? If I had a contract/job, I might consider one or two to replace  my aging 2100s.    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com                            + http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 21:59:15 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> 4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !/ Message-ID: <ui9v913vjajv4f@news.supernews.com>    oops  1 No - actually it should be 2 x 512MB - My mistake    David T   < Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message, news:3D24EE82.4CCCF59C@firstdbasource.com... > "Island (hpaq.net)" wrote: > >  > > $950 > >  > > Or > > " > > DS10L 466Mhz EV6 CPU 2MB cache > > 1GB Memory (2 x 256) >  > Shouldn't that be 4 x 256? >  > > 40GB ATA100 7200RPM Disk > > CDROM and Floppy > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > > Power Cord > > 	 > > $1240  > C > Compaq uses these as their "demo" systems for Oracle9iRAC because B > with 2 +  a storage works disk array fits nicely into a suitcaseC > (albeit a large one) and  they even demonstrate what happens when @ > you lose a node by yanking the power cord etc...  Pretty slick > stuff. > A > If I had a contract/job, I might consider one or two to replace  > my aging 2100s.  >  > --
 > Regards, > 8 > Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19849 > First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 9 > Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com  > - > http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html 1 > 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)  >    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2002 21:13:48 -0700 ( From: don.braffitt@hp.com (Don Braffitt)Y Subject: Re: ES-40 slower than AS-4100 was Re: Running Test and Production systems on dif < Message-ID: <e5c311b8.0207042013.1a12eeb@posting.google.com>  6 > Other consideration. The programs were developed in  > Cobol 2.4.  D COBOL 2.4, 2.5, and 2.6 are no longer supported by HP engineering onE any version of OpenVMS.  You should upgrade to the latest ECO kit for 9 Compaq COBOL V2.7 (COBOLAE1027ECO2) which is available at   7   http://ftp1.support.compaq.com/patches/public/vms/axp   C Several customers have reported performance improvements with COBOL A programs they recompiled and relinked using this ECO kit.  Compaq A COBOL V2.7 also supports /ARCH and /TUNE options for recent Alpha  CPUs.    - Don Braffitt6   Compaq COBOL and SORT project leader (Alpha and VAX)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 03:20:17 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... B Message-ID: <Rf8V8.124345$Ca2.6693380@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:y7%U8.237862$R61.87822@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...   ...   H > In 1988 the VAXstar did in fact undergo a price reduction from $10K to $5K.I > VAXstations didn't start out that cheap, though... cheapest pre-VAXstar  was L > the VAXstation II/RC (with the epoxied backplane) which IIRC was somewhere > between $15K and $20K.  J One should, however, place this in the proper perspective.  In 1987 when IL shopped around for a fairly minimal 8088 (not 80286, let alone 80386) systemL it ran close to $2K; today, a fairly minimal PC system costs about $600.  SoJ if a minimal VAXstation cost $15K - $20K at about the same time (let aloneE the $5K it dropped to soon thereafter), a price today of $5K would be K consistent with the falling prices across the industry over the intervening  time.    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 03:54:46 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... C Message-ID: <9M8V8.277203$_j6.13748425@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message8 news:y7%U8.237862$R61.87822@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... > 0 > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageA > news:j0_U8.3199$si2.266@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  > > @ > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message, > > news:kiZU8.409726$cQ3.28107@sccrnsc01...   ...   I > > > Ummm, I had speculated that the overhead associated with each Alpha  CPU I > > > (total R&D and platform integration cost, etc / number of CPUs sold  per K > > > annum) was about $500USD. Turns out that the real number is closer to  > > > $800USD per CPU. > >  > > J > > Say they spent $50MM annually on Alpha (VMS and Tru64) advertising (in myI > > wildest dreams). And say that they had to 'subsidize' each cpu to the  tuneK > > of $500, we are left with  ($185MM - 50MM)/500 = 270,000 cpu/annum that L > > would have been subsidized. But in fact  it would, on average, have costK > > much less than $500 per cpu. Those cpu's fab'ed later in the year would  beG > > benefitting from the lower fab costs associated with the higher run  rate, K > > and the same would have held true for the support chips, R&D, and other J > > costs. True costs probably would have been closer to $200-250, perhaps > even	 > > less.  > J > You might want to make the beancounters and the managers at HPQ aware ofE > this, as they have been laboring under the clearly specious $800USD 
 > assumption.   J Perhaps you should have made a greater effort to understand what John saidJ rather than merely attempted to be witty:  he was not questioning the $800H per-CPU burden you quoted for the existing run rate, but suggesting thatI this run rate would increase (and thus the per-CPU burden decrease) under $ the changed conditions he described.  L Even if the $800/Alpha CPU you quote has some basis in reality (which, givenL the considerable variation in annual Alpha development cost overhead betweenI Winkler's $300m figure and Marcello's $150m figure, plus exactly what you K may be including in 'platform integration cost' above that might well apply L to *any* processor used, even Itanic, where Compaq designed the platform, isI subject to some question), John seemed to be assuming - I would say quite K reasonably - that even just $50m in additional Alpha advertising would have L increased Alpha sales, and hence the run rate, significantly, not merely dueL to the increased ad exposure itself but due to a major increase in perceivedD platform viability had Compaq started to demonstrate any such actual interest in making it succeed.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 04:40:06 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... C Message-ID: <Gq9V8.277722$_j6.13764813@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>   . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message@ news:udZU8.15355$zGH.582@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...   ...   K > On the other hand, it still seems to me that given the relative high cost  ofJ > IA-64 chips vs. Alpha cpu's, that the number of IA-64 effort (man-hours)- > devoted to the porting aspects are a waste.   K Unless Itanic prices drop far below the current $1200 - $4200 per processor L for both Merced and McKinley, it's not clear that they'll look like any kind  of bargain compared with Alphas.  !  What Compaq should have done was J > taken the $185MM or so that they annually spent advertising money-losingJ > PC's and used it to subsidized the Alpha CPU cost for low-end Alpha's to the I > point where for most businesses a low-cost Alpha system would have been  the H > no-brain decision vs. Sun and everything else. Eventually Compaq would haveF > made up the subsidy with the attendant lower per-unit costs achieved throughO > increased sales volume.   L As long as you mean by the above that Alpha should have been given the meansK to compete vigorously against the rest of the RISC camp (and Itanic), rightiF down to the low end of that market, most c.o.v. stalwarts would likelyF agree.  If you meant that Alpha should have been positioned to competeC directly with the IA32 'commodity' segment, that's a good deal more F debatable (I'd agree with Terry that that *particular* opportunity was frittered away long ago).9   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:59:21 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: fun with pipe' Message-ID: <3D24E580.6CAC373A@fsi.net>9   James Gessling wrote:7 > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D226F9B.849F8CD0@videotron.ca... > > James Gessling wrote:  > > >cK > > > Is there some limit to how much can go through a pipe?  Consider thise > > > example: > > >o* > > > $ pipe sh log | search sys$Input x11- > > > %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matcheds > > > $ sho log/output=junk.datm > > > $ search junk.dat x11C > > >   "X11" = "DECW$INCLUDE" > >aK > > This was discussed some time ago. It is a "feature" of show logical and2 > other J > > programs whose output exceeds the buffer size of the device created by > pipeK > > for interprocess communications so parts of the output don't make it to  > the18 > > other process as the output "packet" gets truncated. > D > I found a discussion regarding using  DEFMBXMXMSG and DEFMBXBUFQUOL > to allow for larger records to go through pipes (in fact I participated in
 > it). [snip]o  H I recall that thread. Dunno if those param.'s now apply to PIPE MBXes in V7.3 or not.  G In http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/ you'll find CREMBX.ZIP. In there B are VAX BASIC programs and some associated .CLD files for adding aC /MAILBOX qualifier to the CREATE and DELETE commands (up to V6.0, I H think). Those include command line qualifiers for (MBX)/BUFFER_QUOTA andF /MAXIMUM_MESSAGE. The defaults are the values of those two parameters.  B On V5.5-2 I started out creating my own (permanent!) mailboxes andH constructing my own "pipe"-lines. Dunno if this code still has any value7 today, but help yourself if you think it can be useful.d  A The archive also contains two .MAR files based on code I found iniC SYS$EXAMPLES, but those don't use CLI$ - the values in question arei hard-coded. Sorry.   -- . David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemse http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/q   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 00:18:49 GMTp1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>u# Subject: Re: Last 3 weeks on c.o.v.r' Message-ID: <3D24EA0F.40C3139B@fsi.net>p   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Larry, > 9 > <<<In the US there is a VMS-on-Itanium lecture tour.>>>r > ; > I suspect you have seen these pointers, but just in case:r7 > https://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour/agenda.cfm-  G The agenda doesn't state a keynote speaker for Chicago. I'll try not toeH read anything into that. I'm hoping for Bob Blatz. Who ever it is, we'llG see if they have the guts to face the music out here in the real world.o  8 > https://www.showexhibit.com/hp_openvmstour/default.cfm   -- . David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 09:34:27 +0800A) From: Kiasu Surfer <verykiasu@hotpop.com> ' Subject: LGI_BRK_DISUSER and batch job?a8 Message-ID: <oot9iu4of6qb2ev85nvovgljh88nmjbtti@4ax.com>  P If LGI_BRK_DISUSER is set to 1, and its happened that this user login failed andO marked as intruder, and got his/her account disabled via the earlier parameter.sP My question is, will his/her original earlier scheduled batch job still execute?   Kevino   Regards,  	 Kevin Lai    **************** ** SPAM BLOCK ** ****************? REPLACE "verykiasu" with "iamverykiasu" at verykiasu@hotpop.comn   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 00:12:33 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>@' Subject: Re: Microvax gathering dust... ' Message-ID: <3D24E89A.64D6CAA8@fsi.net>2   Steve Pfister wrote: > H > I've got a Microvax that I bought off eBay a few months ago. I want toC > reinstall the VMS on it, mainly because (a) I want something more E > current than the v5.3 that's on it now, and (b) I don't have any of$ > the passwords. > C > Unfortunately, montagar.com is sold out of the Vax hobbyist kits.nD > There's auctions on eBay every once in a great while, but I alwaysC > seem to miss them. Are there any other sources for OpenVMS media?a > 2 > Or should I sell it and look for Alphas on eBay? > 	 > Thanks!o  E If you have any form of CD media, than yeah - OpenVMS-VAX distro.s don! appear on eBay from time to time.r  G If you're in the states and need TK50, e-mail me privately and I'll see D what I can do. How to demung the reply-to address should be obvious.   -- a David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 03:50:19 GMTh( From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)B Message-ID: <%H8V8.734$A43.54940@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:u  L > I don't have internal numbers (but if HPQ would like to provide them, theyJ > can feel free to do so) but I suspect that the VMS installed base peaked5 > at 500K systems or so. HPQ now claims 400K systems.r  H As someone who has earned a living off of four Dave Cutler OSes it sure L seems like the number of VMS jobs has dropped off at a much larger fraction F than 20%, more like 80%. Where are all of those systems (jobs) hiding?6 I would rather work in VMSland than with WNT or Linux.   -- g C.W.Holeman II cwhii5@ACM5.orgh remove the fives http://also.as/cwhii   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 20:54:09 +0200 (CEST) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> Subject: Re: parsing >255vI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0207042052460.1479-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   % On Sun, 30 Jun 2002, Guy Peleg wrote:e   > Aaron, > G > The current DCL limit is 255 bytes per command. It can be extended top > 1024 using the hyphen sign.e  B ..except PIPE, unfortunatelly ! (checked this moment with VMS 7.3)  J > We are currently working on a project to increase this limit. New limitsH > should be 4096 bytes per command, using the hyphen 8192 bytes. We have. > also increased the symbol size to 1024bytes.  >  Great. Remember the PIPE command - looks like it is parsed as. segment (of command) not whole command line...      Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================-F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") -%                 THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEc. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 00:22:03 GMT.1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: Pascal Editor' Message-ID: <3D24EAD4.D9B9649C@fsi.net>    Shiva MahaDeva wrote:h > B > Which Editor can I use im my PC to open Vax Pascal files exactly@ > how I see these files using Edit/EDT files in the VMS system ?B > Id like transfer VAX Pascal files from the VMS system to my PC,. > and vice versa, keeping the Edit/EDT format.   "Edit/EDT format" ???!!!  D EDT does not use any special file "format". Program source is always! ASCII text (sequential/variable).s  E If you're looking for an EDT "look-alike", that's a matter of finding  the right text editing program.    -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 04:23:37 GMT & From: Jeffrey Chimene <jec@nospam.net> Subject: Re: Pascal Editor2 Message-ID: <87d6u2zt07.fsf@Alethion.systasis.net>  / contracer11@uol.com.br (Shiva MahaDeva) writes:B  C > Which Editor can I use im my PC to open Vax Pascal files exactly r@ > how I see these files using Edit/EDT files in the VMS system ?C > Id like transfer VAX Pascal files from the VMS system to my PC,  . > and vice versa, keeping the Edit/EDT format.  
 Emacs or gVime  > Do you have PathWorks available? If so, you can open the filesF directly on your PC. IN this situation, be aware that PC-based editorsE are not aware of VMS's mult-version capabilities. This may affect howg they make backups.  - If not, you'll have to use ftp in ASCII mode.2   --   Microsoft Free By 2003   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:31:25 +0100E From: "Dane Maslen" <dane.maslen@real-address-withheld-to-avoid-spam>r( Subject: Re: Quorum discussion/questions@ Message-ID: <kR0V8.6112$Go3.142778@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>   Rob Young wrote in message ...8 > But here is arguably a better way I learned at a site. >A, > 1)  All nodes except satellites get 1 voteE > 2)  No quorom disk, not needed!  Helps speed the transitions up forS > one thing!4 > 3)  Expected Votes = all voting nodes totalled up. > A > Working with a cluster with 6 nodes, we would on the FIRST nodee
 > to boot: >aC > >>> boot -fl 1,N  $n$DGA|DUA.a.b.c.d      ! Alpha booting SYSBOOT-  > SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0  > SYSBOOT>  SET EXPECTED_VOTES 1 > SYSBOOT>  CONTINUE >r > Where N = that node's root.  >t" > Since EV = 1, this node comes up  ( One minor but very important correction:   SYSBOOT>  SET EXPECTED_VOTES 1 SYSBOOT>  SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 SYSBOOT>  CONTINUE  E Every time a parameter is set, WRITESYSPARAMS is implicitly set to 1.eJ Therefore setting WRITESYSPARAMS to 0 must be the last thing you do beforeH the CONTINUE, otherwise the revised SYSGEN parameters will be written to disk and used for future boots.    Dane Masleni   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:49:17 GMTL1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>tA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsn' Message-ID: <3D24E324.96549480@fsi.net>"   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:e >  > Larry, > I > I am in substantial agreement with your analysis (to wit:  YMMV), but I+ > wouldrH > still like to know what my delivered 4.1GB SCSI system disk was INITed > with,t > if only as a starting place.?P  : Well, SHOW DEVICE/FULL will display most of what you need.  G If the owner UIC is SYSTEM or [1,1], it was most likely INIT'd /SYSTEM.:G (Not that you're a newbie, I know you're not - but newbies lurking hereo@ should note that INIT/SYSTEM does *NOT* write any boot blocks orH otherwise provide bootloaders, etc. For that, lookup info. pertaining toG the WRITEBOOT program. Remember: INITIALIZE does *NOT* equal "FORMAT"!)=  D The cluster size was either the default or the ODS-2 minimum for anyE given disk geometry. The exception to this is usually found in the .B H saveset of an OpenVMS-VAX distro. where BACK/LIST will tell you what theG original qualifier values were.  The .B saveset is a /IMAGE backup of a-? disk prepared by OpenVMS Engineering as a starting point for aneD OpenVMS-VAX install.) Typically, a cluster size of three(3) was usedC where one(1) would have been more appropriate to the way some of usy think of it.  B The /EXTENSION size is usually the default of five(5). My personalG contention is that the default for /EXTENSION should be the same as thecH clustersize, but that's just me. For non-system disks, I usually set the4 /EXTENSION size to be the square of the clustersize.  A The /MAXIMUM_FILES allowed is usually the ODS-2 default for INIT,eH however that gets calculated (I'm doing this looking at SHOW DEV/FULL ofD my system disk, not from the docset). (/MAXIMUM_FILES determines the size of the INDEXF.SYS bitmap.)o  H Likewise, /HEADERS will usually be at the default value. There's no easyG way to determine this, but you can draw certain inferences based on how B fragmented the INDEXF.SYS file is when examined with either DFU or@ DUMP/HEADER/BLOCK=COUNT=0. (/HEADERS says how much disk space to% pre-allocate to the INDEXF.SYS file.)   G Beyond that, you can usually assume that the other qualifiers were usedpC at their default values. The defaults are documented, and I usuallyg- start looking those up in the DCL DICTIONARY.o  F ...or at least, that's been my experience. Others' mileage may vary...   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jul 2002 04:15:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations9- Message-ID: <878z4rxnar.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i   norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  8 > I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to< > an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). ...e   > * for   /CLUSTER_SIZE: ...iD > [I would guess that keeping 9 is reasonable, but that is a guess.]  E It would be OK. Beware of small values on big disks, allocation timesa can take a long lunch-break :(  # > * for /DIRECTORIES:           (*)  > * for   /MAXIMUM_FILES:K > *for   /HEADERS:  G Backup will `fix' the headers value for you. But if you intend to add a < lot of extra files, then prealocating the headers will help.  # >  *for  /WINDOWS               (*)q  K > [I usually up it to 80, but what is it on this disk and will the increasea > help?]  L If you do a SHOW DEV/WIN, you will see what the state of windows is. And the1 window turn rate field in MON FCP. It costs pool.R  J (OK, how can you change the way VMS mounts the system disk? Like the mount switch on SAVe on RSX?)n  # > * for  /EXTENSION:            (*)R% > [It is currently the default of 5.]e  - I would make it a cluster, what ever that is.    > * for   /INDEXC > [This used to matter, but does it on a SAN disk?  Would BEGINNINGaB > be just as good as END, especially if /HEADERS is large enough?]   (Lets buy an argument...)n  D Middle is still the way to go for the same resons it was before. NowE before anyone jumps up and metions faster xfers on outer tracks, workaF out where the `middle' is on a zoned disk. I have seen index files end@ up at the beggining of the disk, but don't know if it is INIT or BACKUP I should yell at.  B Others are /nohigh to stop high-water marking and zeroing overheadC but be sure it is something you can do with out and the implicatonsa of doing without it.  C The other biggie is swap/page files. If I use secondary page files,sB they are named [000000]AAA<nodename>.PAGE or .SWAP. The reason is,E these are the FIRST files backup plonks onto the empty, bar structureM? files, disk. Right in the middle, automagikly!! :) No managment = needed. And bog easy to sniff every disk on mount to add them0 as you mount the disks.6   -- B< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 01:03:20 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>7A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsp' Message-ID: <3D24F481.47D08692@fsi.net>p   Paul Repacholi wrote:  >  > [snip]N > If you do a SHOW DEV/WIN, you will see what the state of windows is. And the3 > window turn rate field in MON FCP. It costs pool.t > E > (OK, how can you change the way VMS mounts the system disk? [snip])   7 Assuming you're still talking about windows, how 'bout:c   $ SET VOLUME/WINDOWS ?   -- t David J. Dachterag dba DJE SystemsC http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/6   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 21:47:23 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>eA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsv, Message-ID: <3D24FA99.97452828@videotron.ca>  M If you get a empty system disk you have just FORMATTED, how does one go aboutaI loading *VAX* VMS on it and still provide your own parameters, especiallyh. cluster size which can't be changed later on ?  N When you BACKUP/IMAGE or the B saveset , won't backup do the Init with its own parameters ?  M I realise that on alpha, you can boot from CD and then do the INIT from there-$ and then backup/noinit. But on VAX ?   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jul 2002 05:01:55 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)- Message-ID: <87it3vw6kc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>e  * nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  B > Yes.  And considering that the POWER4 is close behind, on a 0.18E > micron process, and has been out for a while, it isn't only the EV7 F > that might knock it off its pedestal.  Of course, Intel have alreadyF > brought the Madison forward (on paper), and could probably produce a& > 0.13 micron McKinley if they wanted.  : I think there is a re-spin of the POWER4 due in Oct or so.   On the intel side.  A there was a report on TheRegister where an intel exec was braginghF how McKinley was all intels own work. Odd, wasn't McK the HP design??? Or did the truth slip out...  J I suspect that Merced was euthenaised in 99 or so, and the names filed offL with no notice. The McK has already shipped labeled Merced, and the MaddisonL is the one about to arrive. This would fit in with the last slip on `Merced'E as it is about the time needed to add the x86-box back in to the McK.    C > But, despite all the shouting, I doubt that SpecFP performance iswF > going to be the reason that the McKinley sinks or fails.  It will beF > whether it works in the field, perhaps I/O performance and certainly > Microsoft's machinations.6  E Well, if anyone can get a machine that they are allowed to benchmark.O   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jul 2002 04:22:13 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: UAF questions- Message-ID: <874rffxmyy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.  0 spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) writes:   > Oops! I forgot.../  N > $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM  ! unless SYSUAF is defined to be your sysuaf file.   </flame on>   B Do not EVER use SYS$SYSTEM... Use SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] or directory? etc to suit. Unless you like having to seach and destroy orphant> SYSUAFs left in SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]s and the odd ball errors that will bite you.    </flame off>   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 21:09:55 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: UAF questions< Message-ID: <howard-25183F.21095504072002@enews.newsguy.com>  - In article <874rffxmyy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, .  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:  D > Do not EVER use SYS$SYSTEM... Use SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] or directoryA > etc to suit. Unless you like having to seach and destroy orphanf@ > SYSUAFs left in SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]s and the odd ball errors > that will bite you.   I That's only a problem if you let the system create such files.  The only eG SYSUAF.DAT file on your system should be in SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE], which ?5 is pointed to by SYS$SYSTEM (SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE] -> *D SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE],SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]).  It will only work on a E version in SYS$SPECIFIC if there's one there already.  Otherwise, it aD will -always- open the one it finds -before- it tries to create one.  C The only way a copy could exist in SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE] is if the  B system manager copied one to that location or SET DEFAULT to that F specific location before doing MCR AUTHORIZE.  The system manager who C might do so is a bit of a fool, as screwing around with SYSUAF.DAT n? should always be done most carefully, keeping in mind the very   possabilities you mention.   -- ,# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"h I hope you have good backups!o) Are there any more networked SJFs around?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 19:29:48 GMTd1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> ! Subject: Re: Unable to ZIP a fileh' Message-ID: <3D24A64D.17623A44@fsi.net>n   tr dorr wrote: >  > David:C > Using Level=8 worked. I could not find any reference for Level 8.m > What does Level 8 do?   G These two displays together may answer that better than I can (sorry if  the wrapping is nasty)...    DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ zipG Copyright (C) 1990-1997 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly,e= Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko.r% Type 'zip "-L"' for software license.W= Zip 2.2 (November 3rd 1997). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"M< zip zipfile[.zip] [list] [/EXCL=(xlist)] /options /modifiersD   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list, exceptF   those in xlist. The include file list may contain the special name - toE   compress standard input.  If both zipfile and list are omitted, zipt   compresses stdin to stdout.s#   Type zip -h for Unix style flags.    Major options include:H     /FRESHEN, /UPDATE, /DELETE, /[NO]MOVE, /COMMENTS[={ZIP_FILE|FILES}],@     /LATEST, /TEST, /ADJUST_OFFSETS, /FIX_ARCHIVE[=FULL], /UNSFX   Modifiers include:G     /EXCLUDE=(file list), /INCLUDE=(file list), /SINCE="creation time", @     /QUIET, /VERBOSE[=MORE], /[NO]RECURSE, /[NO]DIRNAMES, /JUNK,H     /[NO]KEEP_VERSION, /[NO]VMS, /[NO]PKZIP, /TRANSLATE_EOL[={LF|CRLF}],F     /[NO]EXTRA_FIELDS /LEVEL=[0-9], /TEMP_PATH=directory, /BATCH[=list file]j DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ zip -hsG Copyright (C) 1990-1997 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly, = Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko.u% Type 'zip "-L"' for software license.d= Zip 2.2 (November 3rd 1997). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"xH zip [-options] [-b path] [-t mmddyyyy] [-n suffixes] [zipfile list] [-xi list]tD   The default action is to add or replace zipfile entries from list, whichb<   can include the special name - to compress standard input.B   If zipfile and list are omitted, zip compresses stdin to stdout.D   -f   freshen: only changed files  -u   update: only changed or new filesdB   -d   delete entries in zipfile    -m   move into zipfile (delete files)F   -R   recurse into directories     -j   junk (don't record) directory namesGG   -0   store only                   -l   convert LF to CR LF (-ll CR LF  to LF)8   -1   compress faster              -9   compress betterH   -q   quiet operation              -v   verbose operation/print version info<   -c   add one-line comments        -z   add zipfile commentF   -@   read names from stdin        -o   make zipfile as old as latest entryDC   -x   exclude the following names  -i   include only the followingn namesiG  "-F"  fix zipfile("-FF" try harder) "-D"  do not add directory entriesdG  "-A"  adjust self-extracting exe  "-J"  junk zipfile prefix (unzipsfx)oF  "-T"  test zipfile integrity      "-X"  eXclude eXtra file attributesH  "-V"  save VMS file attributes     -w   append version number to stored nameF   -h   show this help               -n   don't compress these suffixes   --   David J. Dachterai dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho//   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:53:57 -0400e1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>-/ Subject: Re: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMSe2 Message-ID: <3D24D205.9DF0CD1D@firstdbasource.com>   Bendix Riis wrote: > l > peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<tPKU8.131082$IR.1949793@news.chello.at>...c > > In article <9946d62e.0207030317.1ca67333@posting.google.com>, br@b-con.dk (Bendix Riis) writes:MJ > > >I have set up a linux box running samba that via nfs-mount has access0 > > >to a directory on a VAX running VMS v5.5-2.K > > >Windows PC's can connect to the samba share and copy files to and fromt	 > > >VMS.iG > > >Everything works fine except that when VMS print or text files are > > > >read in windows they have a wrong format - cr lf missing.I > > >Is it possible to set up the system to convert/filter the files when - > > >reading/copying them from VMS to the PC?- > >-I > > Why not run SAMBA on VMS and eliminate LINUX (and more important NFS). > > from the picture ? > G > This was more or less the answer I had expected, but for many reasonsk$ > we don't want to run samba on VMS.C > Do you think there is a way out of the problem if we stick to oury > resent setup?e > 
 > Bendix RiisA > B-conl > e-mail: br@b-con.dke  > FYI - I have run SAMBA on VAX/VMS 5.5-2 without problems...  I= don't recall where I got the distribution as this was 1998-99t+ when I configured that particular system.  c   -- w Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163-7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comT                          T+ http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 19:01:43 -0400E1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>e/ Subject: Re: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMS 2 Message-ID: <3D24D3D7.5C9EDFA3@firstdbasource.com>   Bendix Riis wrote: > G > I have set up a linux box running samba that via nfs-mount has accessr- > to a directory on a VAX running VMS v5.5-2.aH > Windows PC's can connect to the samba share and copy files to and from > VMS.D > Everything works fine except that when VMS print or text files are; > read in windows they have a wrong format - cr lf missing.-F > Is it possible to set up the system to convert/filter the files when* > reading/copying them from VMS to the PC? > 
 > Bendix Riiss > B-con  > e-mail: br@b-con.dkr  > One thing you need to make sure of is that the file is has the following attributes:f   File organization:  Sequential? Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 6e bytesU4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  A I have a client that generates the file using COBOL which createsi% a file with the following attributes:d   File organization:  Sequential/ Record format:      Fixed length 6 byte recordso4 Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control  9 They use convert/fdl to "copy" the file into the "shared"iA directory and both VMS and Unix can read the file correctly.  Notg% sure how a PC would view this file...l   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.comS                          p+ http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html,/ 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile))   ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jul 2002 04:34:22 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>/ Subject: Re: Windows 2000 -> Linux Samba -> VMSd- Message-ID: <87r8ijw7u9.fsf@prep.synonet.com>c  ! br@b-con.dk (Bendix Riis) writes:r  l > peter@langstoeger.at (Peter LANGSTOEGER) wrote in message news:<tPKU8.131082$IR.1949793@news.chello.at>...c > > In article <9946d62e.0207030317.1ca67333@posting.google.com>, br@b-con.dk (Bendix Riis) writes:g  C > > >I have set up a linux box running samba that via nfs-mount hasIE > > >access to a directory on a VAX running VMS v5.5-2.  Windows PC'sEC > > >can connect to the samba share and copy files to and from VMS.r  C > > >Everything works fine except that when VMS print or text filesdF > > >are read in windows they have a wrong format - cr lf missing.  IsF > > >it possible to set up the system to convert/filter the files when- > > >reading/copying them from VMS to the PC?l  D > > Why not run SAMBA on VMS and eliminate LINUX (and more important > > NFS) from the picture ?   ? > This was more or less the answer I had expected, but for many.E > reasons we don't want to run samba on VMS.  Do you think there is a 9 > way out of the problem if we stick to our resent setup?y  J The reason the CRLF is `missing' is because it was never there. So you can  9 Re-write Linux SAMBA to understand RMS record formats, or    Install SAMBA on VMS.l  G The first is a good idea in fact, but I suspect the second is closer to ( what you are after, even if not perfect.   -- a< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 18:57:21 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: wow' Message-ID: <3D249EB4.3B67445B@fsi.net>k   Greg Cagle wrote:d > [snip]H > And there is also the "Strategic Management Roundtable" at HP World in > September.  E Are you suggesting that we may be able to submit some input that willt have a noticeable impact?s   -- n David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/O   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 19:01:10 GMTs1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>n Subject: Re: wow' Message-ID: <3D249F96.ADB36A1C@fsi.net>y   John Smith wrote:  > < > "Gerald Marsh" <gerald@cyfer.demon.co.uk> wrote in message4 > news:iep6iu4v6kqosmidu38bq3fla85hqjeqgn@4ax.com... > >l > >I' > > Perhaps it's in good hands at last!l > K > It's far too early to tell. HP has to do a lot beyond filling in the hole M > that Compaq and Digital dug OpenVMS into. Perhaps when VMS market share hasdL > returned to where it was 10-15 years ago can we collectively breath a sigh > of relief.  H ...but that will still not be cause to back off of the throttle. DecadesE of "inertia" (misnomer, but I don't have a better word just now) willhB not be overcome either easily or quickly. Getting back to where itE should have been is less than half of the job. Recovering lost gains,t< salvaging missed opportunities and such will still present a more-than-daunting challenge.d   -- P David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 19:08:46 GMTo1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>  Subject: Re: wow' Message-ID: <3D24A15F.71F48F3C@fsi.net>,   John Smith wrote:  > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message: > news:AQMU8.229539$R61.84039@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net... > >s2 > > "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageC > > news:38MU8.4781$zGH.532@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...- > > >e@ > > > "Gerald Marsh" <gerald@cyfer.demon.co.uk> wrote in message8 > > > news:iep6iu4v6kqosmidu38bq3fla85hqjeqgn@4ax.com... > > > >e > > > >n+ > > > > Perhaps it's in good hands at last!n > > >  > > >pJ > > > It's far too early to tell. HP has to do a lot beyond filling in the > holeM > > > that Compaq and Digital dug OpenVMS into. Perhaps when VMS market share  > > has,K > > > returned to where it was 10-15 years ago can we collectively breath ay > sigh > > > of relief. > >wL > > Not looking all that good in blue (and not wanting to emulate a Smurf) IK > > don't think I'll be holding my breath awaiting the day that VMS regains  > thewJ > > market share it had 15 years ago. There's a lot more UNIX, and way too > muchL > > more Windoze out there gobbling up a significant chunk of the market. Oh > > yeah, Linux too. > >  > L > I tend to be a 'glass is half-empty' person when it comes to human nature.  E I tend to agree with that. Even Anthony Robbins said something to the H effect that what people can do is virtually unlimited while what we willC do is frequently disappointing. ...and its not for lack of ability,M> rather its for lack of willingness, insight and/or motivation.  K > People will allow themselves to think that sh*t is pretty tasty to eat ifTE > it's advertised enough - also known as 'the big lie' premise. First-K > practiced to great effect by Nazi Germany's propaganda machine. Fast foodp7 > chains, unix, linux, *dows, are all shining examples.i  F ...not to mention the excrement that the Q itself has been putting out> marketing-wise regarding non-VMS related product. The products> themselves are still frustratingly proprietary, but not at allH undesirable - they just leave one wanting for a more "perfect" solution,  whatever "perfect" means to one.  F > But Terry, you mustn't forget that the absolute number of businessesK > existent is larger now than it was 15 years ago. The market is larger. SonF > perhaps what I should have said is that VMS should at least have theN > installed # of systems it did then, rather than market percentage. Even that< > should translate into a healthy increase in units shipped.   Agreed..   -- u David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems9 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 15:22:30 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d Subject: Re: wow, Message-ID: <3D24A075.B125E769@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:pL > I don't have internal numbers (but if HPQ would like to provide them, theyM > can feel free to do so) but I suspect that the VMS installed base peaked aty2 > 500K systems or so. HPQ now claims 400K systems.  K While it is a good sign that Compaq allowed that number to leak, making VMS K look healthier than folks anticipated, it is still not clear what that 400k  systems really means.   8 Does it represent the number of systems on maintenance ?M Does it represent the number of VMS licenses issued ? (but not necessarily in  use) ?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2002 20:56:39 -0700-. From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman)Y Subject: [OT]  Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar HP ?@= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0207041956.7e875e46@posting.google.com>w  s "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<4_8U8.81586$Ca2.4755216@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...l= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageE9 > news:b096a4ee.0207011838.3539685d@posting.google.com...h9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messagesA >  news:<ZucT8.456694$%y.32219108@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...-E > > > "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@bigfoot.com> wrote in message0@ > > > news:CN4T8.300$uT4.166@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... >  > ...  >  > > > > following quoted from:G > > > > http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/quotes/repeal.htmle > > > >uL > > > > "We must reverse this psychology (of needing guns for home defense). >  WE, >  canM > > > > do it by passing a law that says anyone found in possession a handgunF	 >  except = > > > > a legitimate officer of the law goes to jail-period!"  > > > >eG > > > > -- Carl Rowan, Washington DC Syndicated Columnist, 1981 articlec > >r > > J > > He's clearly talking about the need for home defense. He says that theI > >  psychology for that must be reversed. Yet (see below) he claims thateC > > he needs to defend his home! He says we need to reverse his owneF > > psychology!!! How is this not hypocrisy? First he says that peopleJ > > shouldn't feel that they need to defend their homes themselves. Yet heH > > then claims that he needs to defend his home. Am I missing something	 > > here?E > M > Yes.  And since it's been called to your attention already, either you're ae< > bit slow or not really making the effort to understand it.     Let's refrain from the insults.e    M > He advocates a change that (he believes) would eliminate the perceived needyJ > to defend one's home with a gun.  *In the absence of that change* (i.e.,F > under current conditions), he clearly himself does feel such a need.L > There's no contradiction (because they're two different situations), hence > no hypocrisy.y    A Uh, perceived need is not equivalent to real need. People who areiF paranoid may have perceived needs for owning a gun in situations where one doesn't really need one.  C And your missing situation number three: the interim period between4D such a law taking effect and a large reduction in crime. During thatE period, it would still be prudent to own a gun. And Mr. Rowan clearlyrE says that when faced with such dangers he would own a gun. Therefore,yF he says that he would own a gun during that interim period. And during@ that period his own law would have him arrested and put in jail.: Sounds like hypocrisy to me, or at least a serious lack ofD self-consistency or an error in logic, at best. I certainly wouldn't@ rule out "hint of hypocrisy". There's certainly at least a hint.    J > > > > " ... as long as authorities leave this society awash in drugs and
 >  guns, I  > > > > will protect my family."K > > > > -- Carl Rowan, 1988 article titled "At Least They're Not Writing Myn > > > > Obituary"x > > > >h > > > >iM > > > > See http://www.stentorian.com/2ndamend/leaflets/rowan.html for what Ir2 > > > > consider an objective history of incident. > > >p< > > > Remind me never to seek an objective opinion from you. > > >o8 > > > The quotes from Rowan above make two things clear: > > >OF > > > 1.  He does indeed believe that no private citizens (*including* >  himself) N > > > should be allowed to own handguns (though we still haven't heard whether& > > > John believes anything similar). > > >OI > > > 2.  He believes that *until* such serious efforts to reduce the gun/< > > > population are made owning one himself may be prudent. > >L > >]? > > That's not what he said. Efforts are not always successful.z > L > Actually, it is exactly what he said:  he specified the effort to be made,L > and posited that it would succeed (though of course that latter assumption > is subject to debate).    F But he still needs the gun until the efforts succeed. The efforts will? not succeed overnight; that's for sure. The efforts, if they dot  succeed, would succeed too late.    
 >  He said as H > > long as "authorities leave this society awash in drugs and guns...".= > > That's not the same as efforts. What if the efforts fail?e > L > He clearly *assumes* (by his statement "we can do it") that if the effortsJ > he describes are made they will succeed.  While one might (or might not:H > the issue is clearly debatable) suggest that this assumption makes him- > naive, it does *not* make him hypocritical.     A It does if he keeps his gun while the efforts are being made. See  above.    M > > > Two mutually-consistent beliefs without a hint of hypocrisy, but that'soD > > > perhaps a bit too complicated for knuckle-draggers to fathom -
 >  especiallym= > > > when they're righteously outraged by the first of them.o > > >a > > > - bill > >  > >u# > > Let's see, how would this work?o > >hJ > > He is in favor of removing guns from private citizens. OK. Assume suchI > > a law is passed. Now, the criminals still have their guns and it willrJ > > take a while to reduce the gun population, so it will still be prudent > > for him to own a gun!!!  > J > What Rowan said was that a law should be passed to reverse the perceivedN > need to own guns for home defense by making ownership of handguns by privateL > citizens illegal.  Nothing more, nothing less.  *You* may think it's naiveL > of him to believe that the danger would go away if such a law were passed,F > but (as I observed above) being naive is not the same thing as being > hypocritical.c    D OK, I agree that naive does not necessarily imply hypocrisy. OK. ButE neither does it rule it out! More importantly, you did not address myg point here.e    N > Now, *if* such a law were passed and he neither admitted that it was not theL > solution he had hoped for (and therefore urged its repeal) nor gave up his6 > own handgun, *then* he would indeed be hypocritical.    E But he needs the gun during the interim period to protect his family!n He saidv    H > > > " ... as long as authorities leave this society awash in drugs and
 >  guns, I  > > > > will protect my family."K > > > > -- Carl Rowan, 1988 article titled "At Least They're Not Writing Mye > > > > Obituary"r    F Well, society will still be awash in drugs and guns during the interimF period, and right there, right above this paragraph he says that underB such a situation he "will protect my family" (I assume he means byE owning a gun). So he'd be breaking his own law in the interim period.d    / >  But then he's breaking the law and should gor > > to jail!!! > >oH > > And that's the problem with your argument. It is not the lack of gunC > > control that makes it prudent to own a gun; it is the continued ; > > existence of criminals with guns that makes it prudent.o > G > That's in no way a problem with my argument, because my argument onlyeJ > addressed the issue of whether Mr. Rowan was being hypocritical.  It is,H > however, a legitimate question to raise about the credibility of *his* > argument.     @ It is the folly of the argument in which he ignores the ineterimE period that makes him, perhaps inadvertently, hypocritical. I think I0 said that already.     >  And passing aI > > law won't fix that overnight. And what if the gun control law doesn'trI > > bring about huge reductions in crime even after considerable time has  > > passed?a > >M& > > Where is the "mutual consistency"? > N > I believe I've explained it adequately above for anyone with any interest inK > understanding it rather than simply continuing their knee-jerk reactions.a    @ You're being a bit presumptuous, buddy. Like I said above, let's refrain from the insults.w    F > > I can see a case where a rich person thinks the tax code should beD > > more progressive, yet thinks it foolish not to take advantage of8 > > current rates. But I don't think that applies here.` > I > Why not?  It's an even better analogy than one I considered presenting.d >  > - bill    E Assume some people are practicing some legal ripoff schemes. Then JoesB Public says "We need a law to stop these ripoffs." Then Joe PublicF decides to perpetrate such ripoffs himself, simply taking advantage ofE the lack of a law forbidding it. Would you not find that hypocriticaln? of Mr. Public? That is why my tax example doesn't always apply.     @ This whole discussion is based soley on the two quotes quoted byD another poster. There is therefore the potential of misunderstandingE them because they are "taken out of context". If someone can find the > original columns and post pointers to them, we could find out.    E Disclaimer: JMHO, i.e., the above is my opinion, not necessarily that  of gfigroups Alan E. Feldmani afeldman gfigroup com    ------------------------------    Date: 05 Jul 2002 04:28:29 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>& Subject: Re: [OT] AS/400 Success Story- Message-ID: <87vg7vw842.fsf@prep.synonet.com>(  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:J  N > |> Yep. Hey, why do you think Carly and Curly got the urge to merge, anyhow?  nF > So that IBM would only have one company instead of two to trive into > the dirt??  ; So what is there left for IBM to do with Curly at the helm?e  ? Oh dear, that is still the case :( Anyone got a lead parechute?c   -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.v@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.366 ************************> >are read in windows they have a wrong format - cr lf missing.  IsF > > >it possible to set up the system to convert/filter the files when- > > >reading/copying them from VMS to the PC?l  D > > Why not run SAMBA on VMS and eliminate LINUX (and more important > > NFS) from the picture ?   ? > This was more or less the answer I had expected, but for many.E > reasons we don't want to run samba on VMS.  Do you t@    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X    Y    Z    [    \    ]    ^    _    `    a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h    i    j    k    l    m    n    o    p    q    r    s    t    u    v    w    x    y    z    {    |    }    ~                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    È    Ĉ    ň    ƈ    ǈ    Ȉ    Ɉ    ʈ    ˈ    ̈    ͈    Έ    ψ    Ј    ш    ҈    ӈ    Ԉ    Ո    ֈ    ׈    ؈    و    ڈ    ۈ    ܈    ݈    ވ    ߈        ሔ    ∔    ㈔    䈔    刔    戔    爔    舔    鈔    ꈔ    눔    숔    툔                񈔪    򈔪    󈔪    􈔪                                                                                     	    
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