1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 06 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 368       Contents:4 Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....????4 Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....????; Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t ; Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t ; Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t ; Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t ; Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t  Becnhmarking disk subsystems@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC@ Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSC+ Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! + Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !  Re: Expect for VMS Re: Expect for VMS$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... HP to fire 1500 in UK $ IA64 version 2 to be unveiled Monday Re: Last 3 weeks on c.o.v." Re: LGI_BRK_DISUSER and batch job?= Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) ! Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 (Differences)  OpenVMS USB questions  Re: Pascal Editor  Re: Pascal Editor & PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB - What's grabbing it?? Re: SMTP 8bit hack not working" Suggestion for FAB: virtual memory Suggestion for VMS FAQ8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations+ Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)  Re: UAF questions  Re: UAF questions   Re: VMS IO up to the level of PCH Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal Where to put startup stuff Re: wow P Re: [OT]  Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 16:48:41 -0600 + From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) = Subject: Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....???? 3 Message-ID: <YSfBaI6tTBa+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <e8f11ce1.0207050226.6292502f@posting.google.com>, tarunm_2000@yahoo.com (tmrana) writes:H > An application tries to open file on vax5.5-2 , but on status check ofE > that file ,its  returncode is 2 i.e %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER  > 00000002....????.  > # > Any Pointer to what it is....!!!!  >   : Is a program that was ported from elsewhere?  I've seen a ; couple of instances of C programs brought in from the unix  6 side that exit with 0 or 2 to indicate that all is OK.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 23:06:37 GMT # From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> = Subject: Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....???? > Message-ID: <1EpV8.160506$0g1.2897316@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  C Try to find where someone put in a command similar to "$set message # /noid/nofacility/noseverity/notext"     1 "tmrana" <tarunm_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message 7 news:e8f11ce1.0207050226.6292502f@posting.google.com... H > An application tries to open file on vax5.5-2 , but on status check ofE > that file ,its  returncode is 2 i.e %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER  > 00000002....????.  > # > Any Pointer to what it is....!!!!  >  >  > Thanks > Tarun Maharana >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 12:10:35 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) D Subject: Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t3 Message-ID: <Z+Zl5iko5wwT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <3D25CD50.23419254@firstdbasource.com>, Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> writes:   > ? > The only gun law that has been recognized as decreasing crime A > *significantly* is in a town outside of Atlanta GA where a town C > ordinance was established that REQUIRED every household to obtain C > a firearm.  Burglary dropped 40-50% the first year because if you < > tried to break in, you could be shot.  Overall crime (lastC > reported numbers) for this town, crime as a whole was down almost 	 > 70-80%.  > : > Politicians and morons alike do not understand that onlyC > law-abiding citizens will obey the law. Criminals are going to do ; > what they want to do regardless of the laws on the books. B > Period.  Like locks on doors/cars/vehicles... they only keep the8 > honest man honest, with criminals it is a challenge.   >   ? 	That would be Kennesaw Georgia.  One of several articles found  	state this:  < http://www.rightturns.com/columnists/guest/sw/sw20020215.htm  I Many of you have probably heard about the controversial gun law passed in O Kennesaw, Georgia in 1982. It stated that every head of household be  "required O to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore."  Soon after the law K was established loopholes were created that could allow some to be excluded E from the law. Those who are exempt are people with physical or mental K disabilities and those whose religious beliefs prohibit them from doing so.   O The explanation for this law was simple: "In order to provide for the emergency K management of the City, and further in order to provide for and protect the N safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants" (see the; city of Kennesaw's official site for the entire ordinance).   O After the ordinance was passed the ACLU immediately took action by taking it to M court as "un-constitutional"; they failed in their plea to have the ordinance M removed. Many said that it would cause "rioting in the streets and the murder 7 rates would go through the roof."  How wrong they were.   L Quite the opposite took place in Kennesaw, Georgia. The crime rates plunged,N reaching unheard of lows!  According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, in 1981,F Kennesaw had 54 burglaries with a population of 5,242. In 1999, with aO population increase up to 19,000, only 36 burglaries were reported! That's over & 81% per capita decrease in burglaries!   ----   	ACLU opposed it, 'nuff said.   D 	For a fascinating read on this issue (Liberals and "firearms", not : 	PC to talk about "guns") and many others, might I suggestF 	picking up a copy of Ann Coulter's soon to be Number 1 New York Times2 	bestseller (currently number 1 seller on Amazon):  S http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400046610/ref=pd_ts_a_1/104-0964193-4365531   . Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right Ann H. Coulter   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:46:08 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> D Subject: Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t2 Message-ID: <3D25CD50.23419254@firstdbasource.com>   WILLIAM WEBB wrote:  > I > > > And your missing situation number three: the interim period between > > > > such a law taking effect and a large reduction in crime. > $ > I'm calling this one out as bogus. > A > Where have crime rates dropped after handguns have been banned?  > . > NYC?  Washington DC?  Most cities in the UK? >  > Don't think so.  >  > WWWebb >  > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET % > Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 9:32 AM D > To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETF > Subject: RE: [OT] Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t > 7 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message K > news:<EYaV8.559231$%y.36742574@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>... > "Alan E. 4 > Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message; > > news:b096a4ee.0207041956.7e875e46@posting.google.com... ; > > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message B > >  news:<4_8U8.81586$Ca2.4755216@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...C > > > > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message ? > > > > news:b096a4ee.0207011838.3539685d@posting.google.com...  > >  > > ...  > >   > > > > > Am I missing something > > > > > here?  > > > > J > > > > Yes.  And since it's been called to your attention already, either
 > >  you're a B > > > > bit slow or not really making the effort to understand it. > > >  > > > % > > > Let's refrain from the insults.  > > M > > Feel free to act as you see fit; as for me, I'll decide on a case-by-case O > > basis.  When you ask a question, be prepared for a straight answer:  if you M > > hadn't attempted to be cute in asking it, I might have been less blunt in  > > responding to it.  > . > I don't recall being "cute". Sorry if I was. > N > > > > He advocates a change that (he believes) would eliminate the perceived	 > >  need P > > > > to defend one's home with a gun.  *In the absence of that change* (i.e.,L > > > > under current conditions), he clearly himself does feel such a need.L > > > > There's no contradiction (because they're two different situations),
 > >  hence > > > > no hypocrisy.  > > >  > > > G > > > Uh, perceived need is not equivalent to real need. People who are L > > > paranoid may have perceived needs for owning a gun in situations where" > > > one doesn't really need one. > > > I > > > And your missing situation number three: the interim period between J > > > such a law taking effect and a large reduction in crime. During thatK > > > period, it would still be prudent to own a gun. And Mr. Rowan clearly K > > > says that when faced with such dangers he would own a gun. Therefore, A > > > he says that he would own a gun during that interim period.  > > K > > You're really full of shit, you know.  Or completely ignorant of simple F > > logic.  What Mr. Rowan said is what he said, no more, no less, andO > > attempting to read into it support for your own viewpoint rather than stick E > > to it literally is the mark of demagoguery rather than intellect.  > G > This argument is bogus. You rule out simple conclusions based on what C > he said simply because he didn't say them. I find that illogical.  >  > Demogoguery? > From Webster.com: G > 1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and ! > promises in order to gain power D > 2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient > times  > G > I am not trying to gain power and I am not in ancient times. And just E > to be clear, I am not advocating gun control nor am I trying to say B > anything directly against it. I am only referring to Mr. Rowan's@ > remarks and am saying that at the very list there is a hint of2 > hypocrisy and that they are not self-consistent. > L > > The way to find out Mr. Rowan's view on whether he feels such an interimJ > > situation would be necessary for him to address and if so how he would > > address it is to ask him.  > E > The interim period is not optional. There *will* be a period during F > which gun ownership by all private citizens is illegal and the crimeH > rate will still be unacceptably high. And since there *will* be such aG > period, and Mr. Rowan clearly stated he would protect his family when F > the crime rate is "too high", he'll be owning a gun illegally duringC > that period. If you think that there might not be such an interim   > period, then you are an idiot. > + > > Lacking that, calling your suppositions H > > 'evidence' of the hypocrisy you claim exists (as opposed to multipleG > > alternate interpretations ranging from simply disagreeing with your J > > assessment of the 'interim' conditions to the possible naivete alreadyO > > mentioned) demonstrates considerably less about him than it does about you.  > > 
 > > - bill >  > That's your opinion. > C > And since you insist on uncalled for insults Mr. Know-it-all, why 1 > should everyone, or even anyone, listen to you?  >  > Disclaimer: JMHO > Alan E. Feldman  > afeldman gfigroup com     = The only gun law that has been recognized as decreasing crime ? *significantly* is in a town outside of Atlanta GA where a town A ordinance was established that REQUIRED every household to obtain A a firearm.  Burglary dropped 40-50% the first year because if you : tried to break in, you could be shot.  Overall crime (lastA reported numbers) for this town, crime as a whole was down almost  70-80%.   8 Politicians and morons alike do not understand that onlyA law-abiding citizens will obey the law. Criminals are going to do 9 what they want to do regardless of the laws on the books. @ Period.  Like locks on doors/cars/vehicles... they only keep the6 honest man honest, with criminals it is a challenge.     --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com  Does not own a gun.       + http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 19:07:09 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in tB Message-ID: <x7mV8.554087$Gs.36966652@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:Z+Zl5iko5wwT@eisner.encompasserve.org...    ...   D > For a fascinating read on this issue (Liberals and "firearms", not; > PC to talk about "guns") and many others, might I suggest G > picking up a copy of Ann Coulter's soon to be Number 1 New York Times 3 > bestseller (currently number 1 seller on Amazon):  >  > L http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400046610/ref=pd_ts_a_1/104-0964193- 4365531  > 0 > Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right > Ann H. Coulter  F I suspect it will occupy a position of reverence on the shelves of theK crypto-Fascist religious right comparable to the one Mein Kampf occupied in & another era.  Goebbels would be proud.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 14:53:20 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) D Subject: Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t3 Message-ID: <vKh4l9UI3h+F@eisner.encompasserve.org>   o In article <x7mV8.554087$Gs.36966652@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  > : > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message/ > news:Z+Zl5iko5wwT@eisner.encompasserve.org...  >  > ...  > E >> For a fascinating read on this issue (Liberals and "firearms", not < >> PC to talk about "guns") and many others, might I suggestH >> picking up a copy of Ann Coulter's soon to be Number 1 New York Times4 >> bestseller (currently number 1 seller on Amazon): >> >>N > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400046610/ref=pd_ts_a_1/104-0964193-	 > 4365531  >>1 >> Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right  >> Ann H. Coulter  > H > I suspect it will occupy a position of reverence on the shelves of theM > crypto-Fascist religious right comparable to the one Mein Kampf occupied in ( > another era.  Goebbels would be proud. >   F 	"At the risk of helping liberals formulate more persuasive arguments,? 	there are a few pointers that might help them upgrade from the C 	overheated demagogic rhetoric of fanatical cult members.  A little ? 	variation in epithets would at least create the illusion of an C 	argument.  "Nazi" can be used properly in a sentence, but it tends F 	to to lose its sting when you call every Republican a Nazi.  "Stupid"; 	[I might add "Idiot"] is also a fine word... For the left, A 	name-calling need bear no relationship to the facts:  It is mere 
 	liturgy."     			Ann Coulter1 			Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right 
 			page 20   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:28:22 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>D Subject: Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in tB Message-ID: <WboV8.556323$Gs.37043930@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:vKh4l9UI3h+F@eisner.encompasserve.org... J > In article <x7mV8.554087$Gs.36966652@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill& Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes: > >6< > > "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message1 > > news:Z+Zl5iko5wwT@eisner.encompasserve.org...0 > >. > > ...e > >)G > >> For a fascinating read on this issue (Liberals and "firearms", not > > >> PC to talk about "guns") and many others, might I suggestJ > >> picking up a copy of Ann Coulter's soon to be Number 1 New York Times6 > >> bestseller (currently number 1 seller on Amazon): > >> > >> > >eL http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1400046610/ref=pd_ts_a_1/104-0964193- > > 4365531  > >>3 > >> Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right  > >> Ann H. CoulterC > > J > > I suspect it will occupy a position of reverence on the shelves of theL > > crypto-Fascist religious right comparable to the one Mein Kampf occupied in* > > another era.  Goebbels would be proud. > >  >rG > "At the risk of helping liberals formulate more persuasive arguments,e@ > there are a few pointers that might help them upgrade from theD > overheated demagogic rhetoric of fanatical cult members.  A little@ > variation in epithets would at least create the illusion of anD > argument.  "Nazi" can be used properly in a sentence, but it tends= > to to lose its sting when you call every Republican a Nazi.e  L Indeed - the usual fallacy-by-generalization argument that since not *every*J Republican is a Nazi, it's unlikely that *any* significant percentage have such tendencies.  B I grew up in Massachusetts, where the Republican Party had a long,J distinguished, and honorable tradition of enlightened conservatism.  ThereL are still a few such around (and in Massachusetts even more than a few), butD between the Goldwater movement in the '60s and the later rise of theJ religious right and Reaganism the national party can no longer claim theirJ mantle of respectability.  There are still individual exceptions like BillJ Cohen and, at least in some respects, John McCain (though he's certainly aF Goldwater-style hawk), and in both the House and Senate there are someK Republicans who, while unwilling to buck the trend of their party publicly,SC lean toward the center.  But the best description for those clearlyuB directing the party and most evident in the public eye is 'rabid'.  I Nixon, reprehensible as he was personally in multiple areas, was the last-G Republican President anywhere near that pre-Goldwater mold.  Reagan wasnJ philosophically far less centrist, but constrained (and even perhaps stillL at least in part informed) by the better half of his party to the point thatH his administration was ultimately less damaging than it might have been.K Bush the First might have had his heart in the right (as distinguished fromuI Right) place but was pretty ineffective, and mostly continued (stumbling) I along the Reagan path.  Bush the Second is at least as ineffective as his!F father, but since both his advisors and the country at large lean moreD toward the Rabid Right than was true in his father's time he is lessK inclined toward the constraint that came to his dad both by nature and from- his surroundings.   H Any party that holds as its policy the dismantling of the Bill of RightsD (with the conspicuous exception of one ambiguous sentence in the 2ndJ Amendment) by increasing law-enforcement predations on freedom and privacyE under the cloaks of patriotism ('the last refuge of a scoundrel') andeJ anti-terrorism, the undermining of the nation's public education system byD diverting its funding to private institutions rather than fixing itsK problems, the replacement of public-sector support mechanisms for the needyiD by whatever the private/charitable sector may choose to provide, andK regression in the tax structure (in the name of the 'supply-side' economics L that Bush the First had the sense to call 'voodoo' earlier in his career) toG further enrich the wealthy at the expense of the poor and working class G (just to name the first major issues that happen to come immediately tosH mind) bears precious little resemblance to those visionaries who foundedL this country - men who combined true piety with sufficient humility not onlyL not to foist it on others by law but to write such constraints directly intoL the Constitution to attempt to prevent future generations from doing so, forI example.  I certainly do not hold up the Democratic Party as exemplars ofcG honor (they've lately been stumbling over their own feet in attempts totJ 'out-patriot' their associates across the aisle) or honesty, but where theI worst one can usually accuse them of is opportunism and corruption (whichaH the country has weathered without great lasting injury for well over twoI centuries now) the path the Republicans are following strikes at the very H foundations of our society and liberty:  comparing that with the rise ofL National Socialism in Germany is not only reasonable but almost unavoidable.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 14:10:24 -0500/( From: David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com>% Subject: Becnhmarking disk subsystems 8 Message-ID: <92obiugkjbp8cqesm822ssig32tvtbvguv@4ax.com>  L We are trying to find an application/utility that will allow us to benchmarkF various disk subsystems.  This particular project we are working on is relating to Oracle databases.e  K The idea is to run the tests against the database and see the response timeaJ given different access patterns (i.e. mostly-read, sequential read, random7 read, etc.) as a way to rate different disk subsystems.r  K This testing would all be performed under VMS versions ranging from V7.2 to  V7.3 on AlphaServer systems.  ' Any leads would be greatly appreciated.    Thanks,s   Dave Harrold    N ..............................................................................N David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgI Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204eI                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634aG Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999i 3031 W. Montana Street Milwaukee, WI 53215    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 17:59:55 +0100mU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>hI Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCt0 Message-ID: <ag4jac$9hg$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  ^ > In article <3D2330E5.80A96575@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >  >>Rob Young wrote: >>M >>>        The fact that VMS is coming to Industry Standard servers is a verye >>>        big plus. >>>lM >>Until IA64 becomes industry standard, you cannot consider that VMS is being/K >>ported to an industry standard platform. As of now, it is very much an HPbH >>proprietary platform developped by Intel and very much NOT an industry >>standard one.e >>? >>Port to the 8086 and then that might be an industry standard.s >>K >>Heck, I'd consider Sparc to be more industry standard than IA64. And had  N >>Alpha not been murdered last year, it would still be more industry standard  >>than IA64. >>; >>Don't sell the bear's skin until you've killled the bear.  >> > ? > 	But that isn't the way the game is played.  Intel will spend'I > 	a great deal of money touting IA64 as industry standard.  The rest of rB > 	the industry can spend considerably less declaring IA64 as not G > 	industry standard but they won't as it doesn't make for good use of eH > 	funds.  So the reality will be that most of the folks out there will G > 	view IA64 as industry standard as the many ads they see will say so.@ > D > 	Supporting evidence that will be touted will be the many OSes and= > 	manufacturers that support IA64 kit.  So there is a strongeG > 	case to be made.  Last I checked Power4 and UltraSparc had far fewera- > 	OSes to offer and far fewer manufacturers.0 >     @ Quick question why is this interesting of relevant or even true.  ; SPARC has Solaris/linux/OpenBSD/VxWorks and probably othersw6 Power supports AIX/Linux and OS400 and probably others= IA-64 supports Linux/HP-UX and Winsomething, others includingn; OpenVMS are being ported. As with much of IA-64 people tend7; to mix the future and present tenses with abandon which can 5 be confusing and some people would suggest down right  missleading.  $ So far fewer is a gross exageration.  ; Far fewer manufacturers, there are 2 major ones using SPARC 9 Sun and Fujitsu. How many major manufacturers are betting  their business on IA-64 ?m   Does any of this matter, no.  : What matters is how many systems of what value each vendor3 ships and how many totalled up are shipped for eachr architecture and each OS.i  9 ISV's measure bums on seats they don't look at a platform 7 as say IA-64 or whatever is great because it has 2-3 or & 4 OS's running on it, they don't care.   Regards  Andrew Harrisona   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 16:22:38 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)I Subject: Re: Deutsche Bank would like to outsource there IT to IBM or CSCh= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207051522.636fab44@posting.google.com>n  a JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message news:<3D23FC90.4442DDCA@videotron.ca>...  > Rob Young wrote:G > >         are the keys to Itanium taking off.  Yes... Merced is Dead,dG > >         McKinley isn't and Itanium finally gets something next year  > >         sometime.. > K > What do you mean by "Itanium finally gets something next year sometime" ?e > P > I thought that the next IA64 was to be McKinley, released sometime in 2002 andL > which would be an improvement over Merced and after that it would be untilP > 2004-2005 when Intel expects the successor to McKinley which would essentially > be a process shrink ?u > > > What is this weeks's expected/speculated release timetable ? > P > Do you agree that once HP allows EV7 out, that the released McKinley will loseP > whatever claims it would have been to make during the time between its release > and the release of EV7 ? > P > Unless HP purposefully slows down EV7, it will make Ia64 look pretty pathetic.N > Once can understand Merced being a flop, but there is no real excuse for theM > second iteration not being industry leading. And even if you take out Alpha M > because it has been murdered, IA64 has yet to beat the 8086. (Especially ifl > Hammer does materialize).   G EV7 is a buffer until Itanic/OpenVMS is ready ... by the time EV7's maxoA out, the Itanium will take over as EV8-9 designs will kick in ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 18:07:42 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>l4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !/ Message-ID: <uic630dvbeg4d6@news.supernews.com>s  % Shipping to Sweden is around $130-140   ! A KZPBA-CA for the system is $230    Regards    DT  1 Jan-Erik Sderholm <aaa@aaa.com> wrote in messagei! news:3D25609D.BFB2B9AE@aaa.com...t0 > What's the added cost for shipment to Sweden ?& > What whould an extra KZPBA-CA cost ? > @ > One of thoses would nicely replace my DEC AXP 2000 modell 300,( > who is becoming more and more tired... >e? > B.t.w, there shouln't be any problem with the hobbyist licensw > on this box, would there ? >  > Best Regards > Jan-Erik Sderholm.i >a > "Island (hpaq.net)" wrote: > >oI > > Anyone willing to offer testimonial on the DS10L's we are selling ???  > >t% > > We still have a quantity in stocke" > > DS10L 466Mhz EV6 CPU 2MB cache > > 512MB Memory (2 x 256) > > 40GB ATA100 7200RPM Disk > > CDROM and Floppy > > Dual 10/100 Ethernet > > Power Cord > >n > > $950 > >i > > --   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 23:20:18 +0000 (UTC)- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis)e4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !. Message-ID: <ag59ji$iee$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes in article <3D25609D.BFB2B9AE@aaa.com> dated Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:02:21 +0200:/ >What's the added cost for shipment to Sweden ?l% >What whould an extra KZPBA-CA cost ?w >a? >One of thoses would nicely replace my DEC AXP 2000 modell 300, ( >who is becoming more and more tired...   G You realize the DS10L, being designed for low profile, only takes 1 PCIeF card.  You can't have both a SCSI card and a video card.  This isn't a0 problem for everybody, but you need to be aware.  : IMHO a plain old DS10 would make a nicer hobbyist machine.  + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.orgd> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 12:39:24 -0400e& From: fdc@columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Subject: Re: Expect for VMSh1 Message-ID: <ag4i3s$obk$1@watsol.cc.columbia.edu>   K In article <3D258930.87A4A8CF@Omond.net>, Roy Omond  <Roy@Omond.net> wrote:r : Dominik Madon wrote: : % : > : Use Kermit.  It's free for VMS.2 : > F : > I'd like to make application test scripts (but need something more; : > flexible than DTM). Is kermit enough flexible to do so?  : 0 : Well, it's only my opinion, but I'd say "yes". : > : Kermit is one of the world's best pieces of software *ever*. : 
 Thanks :-)  K But unfortunately the VMS version lags behind the Unix and Windows versions3M in terms of features, due to lack of VMS programmers both willing and able to H work on it.  In Unix, C-Kermit can indeed fill an Expect-like role, i.e.L scripting interactions with local programs.  But this is one of the featuresJ that was never ported to VMS (others include the FTP and HTTP clients, and Kerberos and SSL/TLS security).r  I All is not lost, however, since Kermit can be used to script interactions J with applications across communications connections (serial, LAT, TCP/IP).L So if you use Kermit to make a Telnet connection to localhost, you can stillJ use it to script local programs.  There might be some trick for doing thisI with LAT too, or any other form of loginnable virtual terminal.  C-Kermitu is here:  -   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html   F And a C-Kermit scripting tutorial with lots of sample scripts is here:  /   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.htmlR   - Frankl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:31:35 +0200i2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: Expect for VMSi; Message-ID: <3d25f417.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>     Roy Omond (Roy@Omond.net) wrote: > Dominik Madon wrote:% > > : Use Kermit.  It's free for VMS.r > >gF > > I'd like to make application test scripts (but need something more; > > flexible than DTM). Is kermit enough flexible to do so?h >,0 > Well, it's only my opinion, but I'd say "yes".> > Kermit is one of the world's best pieces of software *ever*.   Yep. I second that. Fully.   cu,>   Martin -- aH    Emacs would be a great   | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer5    operating system,        | work: mv@pdv-systeme.dehH    if only it came with     |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/<    a decent editor...       | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 13:26:39 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...e+ Message-ID: <3D25D6CD.CA2C5FD@videotron.ca>a   John Smith wrote:aJ > IMHO, the names Capellas and Winkler should figure prominently among theK > first 15,000 heads Carly chops, followed by *most* people from the Comapq # > advertising/marketing department.e  L No. They are the ones who will stay because they share their philosophy with) Carly, so Carly will keep them as allies.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 19:43:35 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...p> Message-ID: <MPG.178fc0e045f6aa0d9896ad@news.bellatlantic.net>  D In article <ag472e$ide$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>, nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk  says...a > 5 > In article <Rm1xBSSpf2lh@eisner.encompasserve.org>,D1 > Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:.5 > |> In article <ag3uhg$aep$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>,n, > nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes: > |> >  H > |> > You CANNOT do serious server work for a multi-CPU SMP system on aI > |> > single (or even dual) system, as many critical issues are entirelyeL > |> > different.  This isn't just tuning, but whether the software actuallyH > |> > works.  And a lot of experience is that certain RAS problems growJ > |> > exponentially with the number of processors (and sometimes even theG > |> > memory available).  And, clearly, you can't even start doing anym. > |> > useful tuning on a much smaller system. > |>  F > |> I would call that testing rather than development.  Certainly theI > |> QA department deserves a (permanent) machine as large as the largestdF > |> production machine, but careful design in a language designed forJ > |> multitasking should avoid following an incorrect technique that might" > |> not even be discovered by QA. > |> lF > |> But not all servers involve multitasking within a single process.H > |> With a separate (serially reusable) server process for each client,F > |> many concurrency issues are taken care of by the operating system > |> (or RMS/Rdb/DBMS).d > ? > Well, those attitudes are PRECISELY what I referred to in the A > paragraph of mine that you snipped.  In both cases, I am afraid"A > that you are technically wrong - though I agree that is the wayeC > that modern software is developed.  It is also why I am inflictedu@ > with so much software that works in the restricted environment& > of development and not in the field.  = Your snipped paragraph had to do with ignoring bugs.  That isM> irrelevant to Larry's point.  The application developer is not debugging the O/S.  < If your application consists of cooperating processes rather@ than multi-threaded processes, then if the O/S works, developing< on a multiprocessor system is completely unnecessary.  Since= an individual process can be interrupted (by the scheduler orr> a for hardware interrupt servicing) at any point, any programs> accessing shared data must be coded to account for this (using< locks or other synchronization), whether they are running on? a uniprocessor or a multiprocessor.  The exact form that errorswB take may be different on a multiprocessor, but the race conditions? (if any) still occur on a single processor and have to be dealte with.h  ? > I could explain why you are technically wrong, but it is veryp? > off-group.  Let it suffice to say that it was believed in the @ > 1960s that you could emulate a multi-server system on a singleA > server, but experience showed why it does not work in practice.n> > And, no, the issues CANNOT be taken care of by the operating' > system, which was another 1960s myth.t  A If you have counter examples, I don't see why they are off-topic.eA VMS supports many SMP systems.  We aren't talking about emulatinguB multiprocessors on single processor.  We are talking about writing= apps that work on single and multiprocessor systems, and whats@ hardware support is necessary to do this.  Remember, thread apps? or other explicitly multiprocessor aware apps don't count here;i? I agree that to adequately test those requires a multiprocessora= test system.  But Larry already excluded those apps from this  discussion.h     -- a John   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 20:41:58 GMT ( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...p0 Message-ID: <ag50am$9pj$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  > In article <MPG.178fc0e045f6aa0d9896ad@news.bellatlantic.net>,2 John Santos  <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote: >s> >Your snipped paragraph had to do with ignoring bugs.  That is? >irrelevant to Larry's point.  The application developer is nott >debugging the O/S.e   Oh, really? :-(h  = >If your application consists of cooperating processes rathernA >than multi-threaded processes, then if the O/S works, developing = >on a multiprocessor system is completely unnecessary.  Sincei> >an individual process can be interrupted (by the scheduler or? >a for hardware interrupt servicing) at any point, any programs ? >accessing shared data must be coded to account for this (usingb= >locks or other synchronization), whether they are running onc@ >a uniprocessor or a multiprocessor.  The exact form that errorsC >take may be different on a multiprocessor, but the race conditions @ >(if any) still occur on a single processor and have to be dealt >with.  = That is wrong.  While it generally applies to the simplest ofp@ processes, it does NOT apply to anything that works in real-time@ or related modes.  On a single CPU system, a process that enters? real-time mode can guarantee that no other user process will bei> executed until it leaves.  That is not true with more than one= CPU, and the consequences on whether explicit interlocking ist needed are drastic.n  > There are similar consequences for unprivileged processes, but? they are not so easy to explain, and often involve locks and/ori kernel threads.o     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679s   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 17:30 CDT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) - Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...t, Message-ID: <5JUL200217303374@gerg.tamu.edu>  5 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes...nL }In 1988 the VAXstar did in fact undergo a price reduction from $10K to $5K.L }VAXstations didn't start out that cheap, though... cheapest pre-VAXstar wasK }the VAXstation II/RC (with the epoxied backplane) which IIRC was somewheren }between $15K and $20K.f  H According to a price list from 1991 that I happen to still have, at thatE time the list price for minimal configurations of the VAXstation 3100.F Model 38 were under $10,000 (but just barely in a configuration with a0 tiny disk drive), including the monitor and VMS.  O EDUCATION DESKTOP PRICELIST US ONLY             Commercial Education  EducationeO page 7   July 1, 1991                             Standard  Standard       ListoO          Through September 30, 1991               Warranty  Warranty   WarrantytO                                                    Support   Support    Support0  7 VAXSTATION 3100 MODEL 38 DISKLESS SATELLITE WORKSTATIONs  N PV110-BC     19" MONO,8MB,VMS                      $6,862    $3,431     $2,975N PV110-BL     16" COLOR,8MB,VMS                    $10,178    $5,089     $4,495N PV110-BH     19"C,SPX,8MB,VMS                     $12,698    $6,349     $5,725N PV110-BW     19" COLOR,8MB,VMS                    $12,662    $6,331     $5,725N PV110-CC     19" MONO,12MB,VMS                     $7,862    $4,044     $3,575N PV110-CL     16" COLOR,12MB,VMS                   $11,178    $5,701     $5,095N PV110-CH     19"C,SPX,12MB,VMS                    $13,698    $6,959     $6,325N PV110-CW     19" COLOR,12MB,VMS                   $13,698    $6,959     $6,325  C Notice that an extra 4MB of memory increased the price by $1000 fort% commercial, or $600 for educational. s  8 VAXSTATION 3100 MODEL 38 WORKSTATION WITH PAGE/SWAP DISK  N PV111-BC     19" MONO,8MB,RZ22,RX23,VMS            $9,392    $4,837     $4,275N PV111-BH     19"C,SPX,8MB,RZ22,RX23,VMS           $15,478    $7,739     $7,025N PV111-BL     16" COLOR,8MB,RZ22,RX23,VMS          $12,717    $6,494     $5,795N PV111-BW     19" COLOR,8MB,RZ22,RX23,VMS          $15,192    $7,734     $7,025  " and some other selected entries...  0 VAXSTATION 3100 MODEL 38 SINGLE DISK WORKSTATION  N PV116-CC     19" MONO,12MB,RZ23,VMS               $10,302    $5,264     $4,675  / VAXSTATION 3100 MODEL 38 STANDALONE WORKSTATIONl  N PV113-BL     16" COLOR,8MB,RZ24,RX23,VMS          $14,260    $7,271     $6,445N PV113-BW     19" COLOR,8MB,RZ24,RX23,VMS          $16,744    $8,511     $7,675N PV113-CH     19"C,SPX,12MB,RZ24,RX23,VMS          $17,780    $9,138     $8,275  " And for the higher end Model 76...  A VAXSTATION 3100 MODEL 76 VAX/VMS Workstations -  Packaged Systemsc  N PV410-BC     8MB, Diskless, 19" Mono (VR262)       $9,982    $5,490     $4,923N PV410-CE     12MB, Diskless, 19" Mono (VR319/SPX) $15,298    $8,414     $7,728  N PV416-CE     12MB, RZ23L, 19" Mono (VR319/SPX)    $16,738    $9,206     $8,388N PV416-CH     12MB, RZ23L, 19" Color (VRT19/SPX)   $19,258   $10,592     $9,708    H This was, obviously, back when educational discounts were vastly greater than they are now.  K A VAXstation 4000VLC wasn't very expensive, relatively speaking, especiallyr) after it had been out for a year or more.u  B Note that the commercial pricing is roughly double for the low endB systems in a useable standalone configuration compared to the listJ price of a brand new DS10/600 in a good, but not maxed out, configuration.I The relative cheapness of the DS10 is even more evident when you considertI that the above prices are in 1991 dollars - to account for inflation, add * about 30% to get prices in todays dollars.  B Anyhow, it doesn't seem likely that an Itanium 2 based system willB cost much less than a DS10, and noticably more if you get the fullA cache version (which is likely to run over $4000 for just the CPUt. even in large quantities, at least initially).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 23:15:19 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>.- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...s. Message-ID: <bMpV8.425680$cQ3.29383@sccrnsc01>  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message& news:5JUL200217303374@gerg.tamu.edu...7 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes...hI > }In 1988 the VAXstar did in fact undergo a price reduction from $10K toK $5K.J > }VAXstations didn't start out that cheap, though... cheapest pre-VAXstar wasfC > }the VAXstation II/RC (with the epoxied backplane) which IIRC wass	 somewherel > }between $15K and $20K.  <snip> >eD > Anyhow, it doesn't seem likely that an Itanium 2 based system willD > cost much less than a DS10, and noticably more if you get the fullC > cache version (which is likely to run over $4000 for just the CPUa0 > even in large quantities, at least initially).  E What's more, the Itanium II system doesn't run VMS (yet). From what IkJ understand the folks at Spit Brook will be among the early adopters of the# HP Itanium II workstations, though.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:49:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...a, Message-ID: <3D264C9F.5D6286BB@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:mG > What's more, the Itanium II system doesn't run VMS (yet). From what IiL > understand the folks at Spit Brook will be among the early adopters of the% > HP Itanium II workstations, though.@  N When will work on wildfire-class IA64 systems begin ?  isn't it a case of IA64N having to first learn how to crawl on a workstation before it can even hope to! run on a wildfire-class machine ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:15:05 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: HP to fire 1500 in UK, Message-ID: <3D261A55.AE03CE0F@videotron.ca>  3 Hewlett-Packard To Eliminate 1,580 Jobs in Britain m     7/04/02 4:06pm b     Associated Press  N   LONDON -- Computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ) will eliminate 1,580 jobs; in Britain, more than 20% of its work force in the country.d  H   The losses are among 15,000 job cuts announced after Hewlett-Packard's, acquisition of rival  Compaq two months ago.  Q   The company employs 150,000 people around the world and about 7,600 in Britain.   M   Jobs to go include 450 permanent posts and 180 temporary jobs at the former N Compaq plant at  Erskine, near Glasgow in Scotland. About 900 jobs will remain at the Erskine plant.   I   The rest of the jobs will go at sites in London and Reading in southerneN England and Livingston in Scotland. The company said Thursday it would consult8 with workers' representatives before  making those cuts.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:12:03 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a- Subject: IA64 version 2 to be unveiled MondayW+ Message-ID: <3D26199E.1733962@videotron.ca>e  6 Intel To Ship 2nd Itanium Chip To Rising Expectations      7/03/02 5:39pm m   By Mark Boslet .     Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES  J   PALO ALTO, Calif. -(Dow Jones)- If at first you don't succeed, bring out
 Itanium 2.  J   That is what Intel Corp. (INTC) will do on Monday to rising expectationsI that this new top-of-the-line chip will do what its predecessor couldn't:tJ compete for the most demanding of corporate computing jobs. That will meanL taking on the titans of high-tech computing, International Business MachinesM Corp. (IBM), Sun Microsystems Inc. (SUNW) and  Hewlett-Packard Co. (HPQ), all K of whom make the powerful Unix servers companies rely on for their internalD business systems.n  J   Intel is expected to unveiled three Itanium 2 chips, and computer makersH such as H-P, IBM, and NEC Corp. (NIPNY) will announce they plan to offerJ machines using the microprocessors. Noticeably missing from the parade, atJ least for time being, will be Dell Computer Corp. (DELL), which says it is? waiting for Itanium demand to increase before offering servers.r  K   Two of the chips to come out Monday will run at speeds of 1 gigahertz anddG one at 900 megahertz. Each will sell at prices similar to the company'sbL present Itanium products - which are $1,177 to $4,227 - and boast of about aI two-fold performance improvement, analysts say. Intel declined to discuss ' details of the announcement in advance.r  E   The "very exciting performance" gains "should make this round a lotLH different from last year," when the first Itanium hit the market to poorL reviews, said Nathan Brookwood, a principal at market researcher Insight 64.: "We will see a lot more competition among system vendors."  L   Any improvement in market acceptance would be welcome at Intel as it triesN to broaden its business beyond the personal-computer market. The company spentL an estimated $1 billion  developing the product line and watched as sales ofE its first major chip redesign in 16 years were unexpectedly sluggish.i  I   "It's a very important product for us," says Lisa Hambrick, director of M Intel's enterprise processor marketing. The high-performance server market ism; dominated by Unix products. "We're looking to change that."E  M   But the hurdles are considerable. Even loyal computer maker Dell is provingoN slow to line up.  "We're taking a wait and see approach to it," says spokesmanL Bruce Anderson. The company is "really waiting for higher volume." Dell willH continue to sell the PowerEdge 7150 it launched last  May with the firstM Itanium chip, but has discontinued an Itanium workstation. It also says it iseH looking at Intel competitor Advanced Micro Devices Inc.'s (AMD) upcomingU Opteron chip, which plans to take on both Intel's Xeon and Itanium server processors.g  K   "We're talking to AMD," says Anderson. "We're evaluating their technologya all the time."  N   AMD plans to ship Opteron in the first half of next year and claims it is an easier step into 64-bit-M   computing than Itanium. Chips with 64-bit technology process data in largerFL chunks and are more efficient at scooping long strings of information out of big databases and programs.C  L   Opteron is designed to drive down costs and appeal to a broader segment ofN the server market than Itanium, said AMD Marketing Director Benjamin Williams.M However, it also isn't being designed to run in top-end servers that use more L than 8 processors at a time. Companies such as H-P hope to sell systems withH 64 Itanium 2 chips by next year. Still, according to Williams, Itanium's9 success is not assured. "I'm not sure it's been adopted."n  F   Some vendors believe that will change. "The marketplace will pick upE starting in the second half of the year," says Mark Hudson, worldwide>M marketing manager at HP. "This is an architecture that will be around for the. next 20 years."c  J   Hudson estimates HP's Itanium 2 systems will be about 20% cheaper to buyJ than the H-P Unix system as well as smaller and less costly to support. "I2 think people's minds are coming around,"  he said.  K   But the "ecosystem" of software developers and service companies needs to > expand. "The ecosystem is the biggest question mark," he said.  L   Intel anticipates growing backing for the chip. The first Itanium had justL slightly more than 100 mostly technical commercial programs running on it. AN new wave of Itanium 2 programs from big software makers including Oracle Corp.N ( ORCL), SAP AG (SAP) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) is expected late this year orM early next. BEA Systems Inc. (BEAS) will have it application server availableg7 in the fourth quarter, says Vice President Gamiel Gran.e  H   The first Itanium's strength was its number-crunching ability, a traitM useful in scientific applications. Changes to Itanium 2 now make it better atdJ moving around lots of data, said Brookwood. This is an attribute valued by2 corporations. Intel will find out if it is enough.  N   -By Mark Boslet, Dow Jones Newswires, 650-496-1366; mark.boslet@dowjones.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 18:12:14 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com>)# Subject: Re: Last 3 weeks on c.o.v.R/ Message-ID: <uic6bn1jhse42c@news.supernews.com>f   Well... there goes France.C But at least everything there will become cheaper, there'll be lessgK Frenchmen (probably replaced by Germans) and maybe they can turn around thea$ "Quality French Automobile Industry"     :0)s   DT  5 WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000071248160000002L002*@MHS...o  D Fiorina and Capellas have quit HP and decided to run France instead.   :^)e   WWWebb   -----Original Message-----/ From: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNETe& Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 4:17 PMB To: Webb, William W Raleigh, NC; Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com at INTERNET Subject: Last 3 weeks on c.o.v.i     Hi. @ Yesterday I came back after 3 weeks of vacation with the family.8 (Paris, Val-de-Loire, Bretagne, if you're interested...)  = Now, having followed c.o.v for a day, is it just me, or isn'th: there a slightly more positive tone on c.o.v now regarding; VMS, HP and related matters ? What have happend during thism 3 week period ?n   Best Regards Jan-Erik Sderholm.=   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 20:06:31 GMTi0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>+ Subject: Re: LGI_BRK_DISUSER and batch job?s> Message-ID: <MPG.178fc63eb083240b9896ae@news.bellatlantic.net>  4 In article <cyHaTlpEfvDX@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  Kilgallen@SpamCop.net says...ef > In article <oot9iu4of6qb2ev85nvovgljh88nmjbtti@4ax.com>, Kiasu Surfer <verykiasu@hotpop.com> writes:T > > If LGI_BRK_DISUSER is set to 1, and its happened that this user login failed andS > > marked as intruder, and got his/her account disabled via the earlier parameter.pT > > My question is, will his/her original earlier scheduled batch job still execute? > H > You could experiment to be sure, but I would strongly doubt it, havingD > looked through the source listings quite a bit.  DISUSER is ratherJ > powerful, to the best of my knowledge only overcome by a login to SYSTEM0 > from the system console (due to this problem). > B > Of course emergency reboot techniques will also work to overcome' > DISUSER -- physical access beats all.:  G Was there something earlier in this thread that said the DISUSER'd user F was the only valid user on the system?  Only if that is the case wouldF you have to go to such extreme measures.  Otherwise you merely have toD log into SYSTEM or another privileged account from any terminal (notC necessarily the system console, unless you've disabled SYSTEM, etc.sC accounts from everywhere else), run AUTHORIZE and clear the DISUSERh flag.y  = BTW, it is a good idea to *NOT* use SYSTEM for routine systemrC maintenance, but instead have a special account with minimal privs,p? but with SETPRV, and use that.  When needed for some particularcD operation, you can explicitly enable and disable the extra privs.  IC have a handy command procedure derived from one someone posted heresF years ago, that remembers the added privs and then drops them for you,H so you don't have to remember the exact list of what you enabled.  Also,> whenever any elevated privs are active, it changes the prompt G distinctively, and if you are on a color terminal (DECTERM, Kermit fromnF a PC, etc.) it changes the prompt's color (RED when enabled, BLUE when
 disabled.)   -- i John   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 16:10:38 -0700 - From: tessier-ashpool@usa.net (Chris Bardell)UF Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS= Message-ID: <9f261edc.0207051510.3fa28e5f@posting.google.com>t  a Michael Rice <MichaelARice@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:<3D25C117.8050603@adelphia.net>...d	 > Agreed.  >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:rC > > Well, the colour settings on your page must be one of the worset3 > > I'v ever seen ! It's nearly impossible to read.d > >  > > Jan-Erik Sderholm.o > >   E Good idea, but *PLEASE* sort the colours & design out. You will drive2 people away ;-)m  5 Check this out: http://info.med.yale.edu/caim/manual/   : NB: if all else fails, try black text on white background.   Cheers!C   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 15:03:30 -0600P+ From: kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)14 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)3 Message-ID: <v1GW0aG48EHT@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  m In article <%H8V8.734$A43.54940@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii5@ACM5.org> writes:p > Terry C. Shannon wrote:t > M >> I don't have internal numbers (but if HPQ would like to provide them, they K >> can feel free to do so) but I suspect that the VMS installed base peaked 6 >> at 500K systems or so. HPQ now claims 400K systems. > J > As someone who has earned a living off of four Dave Cutler OSes it sure N > seems like the number of VMS jobs has dropped off at a much larger fraction H > than 20%, more like 80%. Where are all of those systems (jobs) hiding?8 > I would rather work in VMSland than with WNT or Linux. >   = It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage that a= you only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As  5 opposed to the 500k spent on managing each NT system.A  . It's not accurate, but it still might be said.   insert goofy smiley here , ;^}    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 16:33:10 -0400V- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>44 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow), Message-ID: <3D260278.3E2E0DE3@videotron.ca>   Marty Kuhrt wrote:> > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage that> > you only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As7 > opposed to the 500k spent on managing each NT system.,  L That implies no new development on the systems which would essentially be in maintenance mode.1  M Having 400k systems running on 5.5-2 with fixed applications that never breakiJ may result in very few VMS employees needed. But it also results in no newL business for VMS, not only in Digital products, but also 3rd party products.  N Also, in a company with VMS and Windows infrastructure, the lack of VMS hiringJ when company is hiring Widnows means that new development goes to Windows.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 20:59:26 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>"4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)F Message-ID: <OMnV8.5232$Ggf.2768@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D260278.3E2E0DE3@videotron.ca... > Marty Kuhrt wrote:@ > > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage that@ > > you only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As9 > > opposed to the 500k spent on managing each NT system.  >6K > That implies no new development on the systems which would essentially be8 in > maintenance mode.r >dI > Having 400k systems running on 5.5-2 with fixed applications that nevery break L > may result in very few VMS employees needed. But it also results in no newD > business for VMS, not only in Digital products, but also 3rd party	 products.8 > I > Also, in a company with VMS and Windows infrastructure, the lack of VMS3 hiringL > when company is hiring Widnows means that new development goes to Windows.     Yes.  H And as far as app development jobs are concerned, pick any number of the
 following:  J a) The jobs are going to India anyway, where a programmer makes $20-40 per day.F b) Oracle and SAP are your application. You don't need any development	 in-house. 8 c) All you run is an accounting app and word processing.I d) Free, downloadable, Java applets written by 14-year old's are going tob run your business.' e) Microsoft sells everything you need.hI f) Processors are getting so fast, IDE's are getting so good, neural netsnK and speech-recognition are getting so good that pretty soon all you have todK do is say something vague like, "We really need a system that will allow us = to consolidate, integrate, and diversify our portfolio across L multi-functional and jurisdictional divides in order to maximize shareholderH value.", and the software will write itself. Come to think of it, that'sI pretty much what many executives say as the mission/need statement at the H 'kick-off' meeting for most software projects - and we all know how much8 good software results from statements like that --- nil.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:25:43 GMT30 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)> Message-ID: <MPG.178fd8c739d38d739896af@news.bellatlantic.net>  G In article <OMnV8.5232$Ggf.2768@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,   a@nonymous.com says... > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D260278.3E2E0DE3@videotron.ca... > > Marty Kuhrt wrote:B > > > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage thatB > > > you only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As; > > > opposed to the 500k spent on managing each NT system.i > > M > > That implies no new development on the systems which would essentially be) > in > > maintenance mode.e > >sK > > Having 400k systems running on 5.5-2 with fixed applications that nevert > breakuN > > may result in very few VMS employees needed. But it also results in no newF > > business for VMS, not only in Digital products, but also 3rd party > products.c > >sK > > Also, in a company with VMS and Windows infrastructure, the lack of VMSe > hiringN > > when company is hiring Widnows means that new development goes to Windows. >  >  > Yes. > J > And as far as app development jobs are concerned, pick any number of the > following: > L > a) The jobs are going to India anyway, where a programmer makes $20-40 per > day.H > b) Oracle and SAP are your application. You don't need any development > in-house.l: > c) All you run is an accounting app and word processing.K > d) Free, downloadable, Java applets written by 14-year old's are going toa > run your business.) > e) Microsoft sells everything you need.vK > f) Processors are getting so fast, IDE's are getting so good, neural nets4M > and speech-recognition are getting so good that pretty soon all you have todM > do is say something vague like, "We really need a system that will allow usc? > to consolidate, integrate, and diversify our portfolio acrossuN > multi-functional and jurisdictional divides in order to maximize shareholderJ > value.", and the software will write itself. Come to think of it, that'sK > pretty much what many executives say as the mission/need statement at theeJ > 'kick-off' meeting for most software projects - and we all know how much: > good software results from statements like that --- nil.  F I hope the quote in item f) is actually a quote, and not something youG made up as an example.  If you did make it up, please seek professionalsF help *immediately*.  Your brain is in serious danger of melting.  (If H this happens, the top of your skull will lose all its hair, and collapseF downward, leaving two patches of hair pointing up on either side.  YouE will also start wearing suits to work and your salary will be doubledu for no apparent reason.)   P.S.  Does this need a smiley?   -- l John   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 23:23:24 GMTs# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>u4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)F Message-ID: <MTpV8.6094$Ggf.2265@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  = "John Santos" <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote in messageo8 news:MPG.178fd8c739d38d739896af@news.bellatlantic.net...H > In article <OMnV8.5232$Ggf.2768@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, > a@nonymous.com says... > > > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3D260278.3E2E0DE3@videotron.ca... > > > Marty Kuhrt wrote:D > > > > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage thatD > > > > you only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As= > > > > opposed to the 500k spent on managing each NT system.s > > >oL > > > That implies no new development on the systems which would essentially be > > in > > > maintenance mode.e > > > G > > > Having 400k systems running on 5.5-2 with fixed applications thata neverr	 > > breaksL > > > may result in very few VMS employees needed. But it also results in no new H > > > business for VMS, not only in Digital products, but also 3rd party
 > > products.  > > >dI > > > Also, in a company with VMS and Windows infrastructure, the lack of  VMSe
 > > hiringG > > > when company is hiring Widnows means that new development goes toi Windows. > >  > >r > > Yes. > >eL > > And as far as app development jobs are concerned, pick any number of the > > following: > >mJ > > a) The jobs are going to India anyway, where a programmer makes $20-40 pern > > day.J > > b) Oracle and SAP are your application. You don't need any development
 > > in-house.s< > > c) All you run is an accounting app and word processing.J > > d) Free, downloadable, Java applets written by 14-year old's are going to > > run your business.+ > > e) Microsoft sells everything you need.hH > > f) Processors are getting so fast, IDE's are getting so good, neural netsL > > and speech-recognition are getting so good that pretty soon all you have toL > > do is say something vague like, "We really need a system that will allow usA > > to consolidate, integrate, and diversify our portfolio acrosstD > > multi-functional and jurisdictional divides in order to maximize shareholdereL > > value.", and the software will write itself. Come to think of it, that'sI > > pretty much what many executives say as the mission/need statement atp the L > > 'kick-off' meeting for most software projects - and we all know how much< > > good software results from statements like that --- nil. > H > I hope the quote in item f) is actually a quote, and not something youI > made up as an example.  If you did make it up, please seek professionalcG > help *immediately*.  Your brain is in serious danger of melting.  (If J > this happens, the top of your skull will lose all its hair, and collapseH > downward, leaving two patches of hair pointing up on either side.  YouG > will also start wearing suits to work and your salary will be doubleda > for no apparent reason.) >e  > P.S.  Does this need a smiley? >n > -- > John    E It could be an actual quote from a customer, or a composite from manycF customers, or something I made up based on experiences, he said whilst" grinning like a Cheshire cat.  :-)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:26:13 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>c4 Subject: RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D925E@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   John -  G >>> Come to think of it, that's pretty much what many executives say as F the mission/need statement at the 'kick-off' meeting for most software projects...>>>  H Actually, the way many projects start out is the boss telling all of hisH programming staff "All you folks start coding while I go and talk to the2 business folks about what the requirements are .."   :-)r   Regardss  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultants Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services  Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----+ From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20r Sent: July 5, 2002 4:59 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D260278.3E2E0DE3@videotron.ca... > Marty Kuhrt wrote:G > > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage that you=20eJ > > only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As opposed to=20. > > the 500k spent on managing each NT system. > H > That implies no new development on the systems which would essentially   > be in > maintenance mode.  >dF > Having 400k systems running on 5.5-2 with fixed applications that=20 > neveri breakoH > may result in very few VMS employees needed. But it also results in no  H > new business for VMS, not only in Digital products, but also 3rd party	 products.  >mH > Also, in a company with VMS and Windows infrastructure, the lack of=20 > VMSv hiringF > when company is hiring Widnows means that new development goes to=20
 > Windows.     Yes.  H And as far as app development jobs are concerned, pick any number of the
 following:  F a) The jobs are going to India anyway, where a programmer makes $20-40 per day.F b) Oracle and SAP are your application. You don't need any development	 in-house.78 c) All you run is an accounting app and word processing.F d) Free, downloadable, Java applets written by 14-year old's are going to run your business. ' e) Microsoft sells everything you need.eD f) Processors are getting so fast, IDE's are getting so good, neuralH nets and speech-recognition are getting so good that pretty soon all youE have to do is say something vague like, "We really need a system thatlD will allow us to consolidate, integrate, and diversify our portfolioG across multi-functional and jurisdictional divides in order to maximizeyF shareholder value.", and the software will write itself. Come to thinkF of it, that's pretty much what many executives say as the mission/needG statement at the 'kick-off' meeting for most software projects - and we0E all know how much good software results from statements like that ---j nil.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:40:30 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>y4 Subject: RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4026607FA@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   JF -  C Re: measuring numbers of systems Customers have as a measure of how  popular they were vs now ..   G Fwiw, the total numbers of systems in almost all med to large CustomerseG is shrinking a huge amount these days. Almost every one of these Cust'scH is either considering, investigating or implementing an IT consolidation1 project as a means to reduce their overall costs.u  C And this applies to all platforms. We bid on one RFP here in CanadatF whereby the Govt wanted to reduce the number of small Sun systems fromG 150 down to less than 10. Another Customer has over 1100 NT servers andcE wanted this number to shrink to 250 range. Another Customer in CanadaaH has approx 115 small VAX and Alpha servers across the country and wantes. to reduce that overall number to less than 10.  H All of these have the same thing in common. Reduce the overall number of? servers with much bigger, higher availability and in many cases G multi-site as well... (IT consolidation 101 says a single site is not au wise move.)S  E This does not mean these companies are reducing their dependancies on C that OS. On the contrary, it likely means they are increasing theiruF dependancy as a single server being down has a much bigger impact than before.p  F The point is that trying to measure how popular an OS / platform is byH simple numbers of servers is no longer a good measurement. The only onesG still doing this as a measurement today are those Gartner types who area still living in the 90's....   :-)d   Regardso  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantm Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesy Voice: 613-592-4660c Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----7 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]=20' Sent: July 5, 2002 4:33 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)     Marty Kuhrt wrote:J > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage that you only=20G > need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As opposed to the=205( > 500k spent on managing each NT system.  F That implies no new development on the systems which would essentially be in maintenance mode.e  G Having 400k systems running on 5.5-2 with fixed applications that neveruF break may result in very few VMS employees needed. But it also resultsF in no new business for VMS, not only in Digital products, but also 3rd party products.c  G Also, in a company with VMS and Windows infrastructure, the lack of VMStH hiring when company is hiring Widnows means that new development goes to Windows.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 03:39:50 GMTu1 From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (Jerry Leslie)r4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow); Message-ID: <aEtV8.44826$q53.1338160@twister.austin.rr.com>r  " John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote: : I : a) The jobs are going to India anyway, where a programmer makes $20-40 t
 :    per day.. :a  D India's gotten too expensive -- Vietnamese programmers work cheaper & than Indian and Chinese programmers...  L    http://digitalmass.boston.com/news/tech_innovation/news/0513_vietnam.html4    Vietnam's IT industry eyes huge foreign contracts  G   "HANOI, Vietnam -- Quantic Software's managing director Bui Quoc HungiH    and his crew of 60 programmers have been busy this past year jugglingE    a stream of projects from overseas giants such as Nortel Networks, !    Japan's NTT and Cisco Systems.   I    "Vietnam is not yet known for its software, but Vietnamese programmersnL    have good skills. And we are cheaper than India and China," Hung said..."  " Even HP is investing in Vietnam...  %    http://www.vnunet.com/News/1130523i'    vnunet.com IT giants turn to Vietnami  8   "Emerging industry wins US government outsourcing dealA    The US government last week signed its first deal to outsourcei#    software development to Vietnam.r  G    Under the terms of the six-month deal, the US state of Oklahoma will @    outsource the development of a trade website to Vietnam-based'    technology company Silkroad Systems.p  E    A report published last week by Research Vietnam revealed that bigmF    name North American companies are outsourcing to the country, along&    with European and Japanese players.  F    Nortel, Cisco, IBM, Hewlett Packard, British Aerospace, BP and Sony6    are just some of the names investing in Vietnam..."    2 --Jerry Leslie   (my opinions are strictly my own)9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for emailt   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 13:14:44 -0700k. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)* Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.2-1H1 (Differences)= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0207051214.43809300@posting.google.com>9  v Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote in message news:<20020705115326.42993.qmail@web20210.mail.yahoo.com>...7 > I dont know if it is a bug but I am having problems   , > to use the DIFF command under OVMS 7.2-1H1 >  > ' > $ diff node1::disk1:[dir]login.com  -  >   disk2:[dir]login.com >  > %DIFF-F-OPENIN, error opening ' > node1::disk2:[dir]LOGIN.COM; as input 3 > -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriatep > device type for operationn >  > 6 > I am trying to check a local file, but it reports me > the remote node (node1)s >  > When I put > & > $ diff node1::disk1:[dir]login.com -# >   localnode::disk2:[dir]login.comc >  > It works fine ! !  > 	 > Regardsi >  > FC V    A With DIFFERENCES, missing fields in the second spec come from the A first spec. I have also found through trial and error that if you ? change the node from one spec to the next in cases where stickyoC defaults apply, the default device and directory are not taken fromo> the previous spec. They are taken from the default for the newF node-spec. So, whenever I change the node, I always explicitly specifyF the device and directory, even if they are the same as in the previousE file-spec. I found that you do *not* have to do that for filename andn	 filetype.)  C Note that you can use 0:: as a shorthand for the local node. Also Ia use VMS v6.1 and v6.2.  C Note that with commands like COPY and APPEND, only the filename andl$ filetype are sticky. So you could do  & NODE1$ COPY NODE2::SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM *  5 and the file will be copied to the local node, NODE1.s   Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldmant afeldman gfigroup com    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 20:31:19 -0700a) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)a Subject: OpenVMS USB questions= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0207051931.5bba29c2@posting.google.com>a  9 I read that there is support for USB under OpenVMS 7.3-1.s  G At the moment I'm "dicking with" a serial IrDA widget under OpenVMS and A am writing (slowly, but I do everything slowly) an IrDA stack. SooD far I can talk to my Casio Wrist Camera and HP620LX pocket PC at theI IrLAP level and Set Normal Response Mode (SNRM). I'm at the IrLMP connect 
 stage now.  G What is interesting is that the Casio *came with* a USB IrDA widget andwB I had to *buy* a serial port IrDA widget to even think about doing anything under OpenVMS..  A Now that OpenVMS has a USB driver I have the following questions:m  G (1) It was mentioned the driver works with a Lucent USS-344 USB widget. F     The USS-344 widget looks command/status register compatible with a=     CMD USB0670. My PC164 has etchings on the board for (from D     the circuit diagram) a CMD USB0670 and USB connector. Looking at;     the USS-344 docs and the USB0670 these are both OpenHCI D     and the command/status registers look identical. The Opti 82C861F     is a "drop in" replacement for the USB0670. Since I don't have anyB     spare PCI slots on my PC164 (due to an over population of SCSIH     controllers due to the SRM not supporting U160 - oh forget it - I'veG     already *bitched* about PC164 SRM device support :-) I'll want/need E     to look at getting the Opti or CMD chip and soldering it in. Doesr#     this chip work with the driver?   H (2) Since it will be a few months before we order and receive our 7.3-1,D     If Q1 is true, does the driver function under 7.3? and if so canE     someone send me a copy? I might want to "dick around" with my USBo     IrDA widget at some point.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 20:16:14 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Pascal Editor5 Message-ID: <ag4n9g$im6r5$1@ID-143435.news.dfncis.de>a  8 Shiva MahaDeva <contracer11@uol.com.br> wrote in message6 news:ddf392ea.0207031653.d28e433@posting.google.com...B > Which Editor can I use im my PC to open Vax Pascal files exactly@ > how I see these files using Edit/EDT files in the VMS system ?B > Id like transfer VAX Pascal files from the VMS system to my PC,. > and vice versa, keeping the Edit/EDT format.   Could the answer be NOTEPAD?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:29:06 GMTi- From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>, Subject: Re: Pascal Editor* Message-ID: <3D260B7C.3020308@qsl.network>   Hans Vlems wrote:c: > Shiva MahaDeva <contracer11@uol.com.br> wrote in message8 > news:ddf392ea.0207031653.d28e433@posting.google.com... > B >>Which Editor can I use im my PC to open Vax Pascal files exactly@ >>how I see these files using Edit/EDT files in the VMS system ?B >>Id like transfer VAX Pascal files from the VMS system to my PC,. >>and vice versa, keeping the Edit/EDT format. >  u > Could the answer be NOTEPAD?  I DOS EDIT or WORDPAD (also known as WRITE) will usually handle text files d that were not produced on a PC.n  H Problems with using NOTEPAD on UNIX text files is a common complaint on ' the SAMBA newsgroups and mailing lists.   H SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS can be configured to handle specific extensions  as specific file formats.,  E IIRC: Advanced Server or Pathworks also allow specifying the default :D file format, but it has been a while since I looked at that setting.   -Johnn wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Onlyh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 19:07:10 +0100c- From: Gerald Marsh <gerald@cyfer.demon.co.uk>a/ Subject: PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB - What's grabbing it??a8 Message-ID: <ahnbiuka07ia2cl1h1d7ou2jtp94s5sdqu@4ax.com>  F We are running a performance management product which supposed to give$ a hotfiles list if we ask it nicely.  E Unfortunately the module is dying - sometimes with a VECINUSE error -n5 and reporting that PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB is already in use.a  @ Any ideas on how to find out which process has grabbed it for IOD performance instrumentation? We run Perfectdisk - which AFAIK cannotD produce a Hotfiles list - and used to run DecPS but that was removed over a year ago.  @ EXAMINE in ANAL/SYS around the location doesn't give me anythingC meaningful but the contents of the longword is definitely non-zero..  & Any help would be gratefully received.   Keep the flag flying!i   Gerald Marsh      / gerald -at- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- ukl   ------------------------------  * Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 19:53:14 +0000 (UTC)* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)' Subject: Re: SMTP 8bit hack not workingw0 Message-ID: <ag4tfa$qe6$2@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>  V In article <3D2338D8.25A5118C@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes: ><snip>rF >Maybe because the logical meant nothing it was ignored. Stop defining >TCPIP$SMTP_8BITMIME_HACK.N >I'm running VMS 7.2 w/ TCPIP 5.1 (no ECOs applied) and just have EIGHTBIT set< >without any TCPIP$SMTP* logicals defined and it works fine.  E You know, this makes me think: Perhaps when I applied one of the ECOs E it disabled (or broke) this feature?  You know, something that shouldoE make it work without needing the logical name, only they reversed the ; logic somehow and caused it to never work.  It's a thought.   A Wire, would you lay odds that if you applied ECO 4 it would still  work?  Just a thought/insight.  F Hey, is anyone running ECO 4 of this s/w able to receive 8-bit ascii? D That'd disprove my theory.  (I'm at VMS AXP 7.1-2, TCPIP 5.1 ECO 4.)   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.educ   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:08:50 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> + Subject: Suggestion for FAB: virtual memoryt, Message-ID: <3D26896C.679F68E5@videotron.ca>  A On a Macintosh, (MAC OS 9 and earlier), one had a simple setting:   M You had the RAM amount, and you could then secify the total amount of virtual K memory available, (which also dictated the size of the paging/swapping filef that is created.)s  J For VMS, it would be nice to have a FAQ section that describes the variousG SYSGEN parameters that dictate the total virtual address space, and therJ relationship between that, the page file sizes, and the pagefile quota for
 each process.   I As I recall, the guide on performance management seems to deal a lot withsG process parameters but not as much with the sysgen ones that define thee virtual address space.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 02:10:15 -0400J- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Suggestion for VMS FAQl, Message-ID: <3D2689C1.300F1E15@videotron.ca>  N (corrected the title from FAB to FAQ, sorry but I've been doing RMS stuff this week :-)  A On a Macintosh, (MAC OS 9 and earlier), one had a simple setting:   M You had the RAM amount, and you could then secify the total amount of virtualsK memory available, (which also dictated the size of the paging/swapping filef that is created.)t  J For VMS, it would be nice to have a FAQ section that describes the variousG SYSGEN parameters that dictate the total virtual address space, and therJ relationship between that, the page file sizes, and the pagefile quota for
 each process.6  I As I recall, the guide on performance management seems to deal a lot with-G process parameters but not as much with the sysgen ones that define the5 virtual address space.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 16:32:47 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsu= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207051532.128b1948@posting.google.com>o  c norm.raphael@metso.com wrote in message news:<OFBE5599B2.7CD52AB5-ON85256BEA.0070D0F9@metso.com>...h > Larry, > I > I am in substantial agreement with your analysis (to wit:  YMMV), but Is > wouldhH > still like to know what my delivered 4.1GB SCSI system disk was INITed > with,n > if only as a starting place.?o >  > -Norm  >  >  > ; > Please respond to Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)o >  > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > cc:oF > Subject:    Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations >  > A > In article <OF6F3571AD.7E9844FB-ON85256BEA.0055841F@metso.com>,i  > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > >m: > > I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to> > > an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). > >f; > > If I just use BACKUP/IMAGE the cluster factor increasese > > from 9 to 35.e > >- > > I think 35 is too large. > > A > > I can INITIALIZE the target disk and user BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITlF > > to change things, but I have no information on what is reasonable. > H > What is reasonable is whatever will avoid filling the disk while thereI > is significant lost space in the leftovers of the last cluster for eachIG > file.  Thus this depends entirely on how many files of what size will  > be on the disk.  > 3 > > What does VMS development use? recommend? ship?  > E > The VMS operating system components do not have a chance of fillingvE > 18 GB.  Therefore, either your disk is going to be largely empty orsD > you are going to put "other" files on the system disk.  The answerC > to your question is fully involved with the nature of the "other"vB > files and thus is nothing on which VMS Development could provide > guidance.   ? VMS RMS support people I have talked with recommend a plain olda   $ INIT disk: label  B esp. for system disks, use the VMS and RMS defaults, and then do a   $ BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITK  G and leave HIGHWATER enabled ... works fine for every size system disk I 8 have ever used, which has been 2,4,9 and now 18 gb's ...   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jul 2002 00:16:42 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations - Message-ID: <87sn2yup3p.fsf@prep.synonet.com>g  * Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> writes:   > Paul Repacholi wrote:o  C > > It would be OK. Beware of small values on big disks, allocations( > > times can take a long lunch-break :(  nE > This is the first reference I've seen with regard to performance byrC > using smaller than the default cluster size. (I've always avoided5 > using small cluster sizes).   t > Care to elaborate, please?  E Not in any great detail I'm afraid. I did run with a 4Gb drive with adE CF of 1, and noticed that at times the system would spend a noticableaF time in the XQP. Data disk with CF=1 also showed this. A CF=3 4Gb does) not show the delays to a noticable level.a  G I wonder if there is some limit on the size of BITMAP.SYS cacheing thate
 is the cause.a   -- .< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.h@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jul 2002 01:04:35 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationss- Message-ID: <87ofdmumvw.fsf@prep.synonet.com>0  ' paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:e   > Paul Repacholi wrote:a  " > > norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  < > > > I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to@ > > > an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). > > ...m > >  > > > * for   /CLUSTER_SIZE: > > ... H > > > [I would guess that keeping 9 is reasonable, but that is a guess.]  I > > It would be OK. Beware of small values on big disks, allocation timest" > > can take a long lunch-break :(  - > Why?? (A big question, not an interjection)s  A I will re-phrase this. Beware of CFs that are very low, like 1 oreB possibley 2. Bigger the disk, I suspect the higher the critical CFE gets. Or to put it another way, I think once the BITMAP.SYS goes over5? some magic size, the system is prone to long rumages through itf looking for space.  F Possible causes off the top of my head; having to read in and allocateC from many BM blocks to get the space, and having that number exceedMC what the XQP can cache, possibly some negative interaction with thesC EXTcache, so it does not work well, having all the members flushing-4 the EXTcaches prematurly and lock thrashing from it.  C > I have only 9GB disks at present, the default cluster size is 18.:E > On the system disk I have left the default, but changed all my userqB > disks to 9.  This seemed a reasonable average size for the files > created by users.b  C > I am buying replacement disks of 36Gb, and was intending to use ar= > similar philosohy ... leave system default at whatever, butm2 > initialise user disks again with 9 cluster size.  .@ > On your comment, is 9 too small and what will be the effect on > users?  E Well, the good news is, as the XQP runs in process context, it is the C users who pay, not the system as it tends to be on the system disk.dC That's also the bad news I guess. I am guessing that 9 would be OK, = and that 1 or 2 would suck. Just a guess though, feel free tor experiment and let us know :)S  eD > Note also that many of our applications have an expectation of theD > file size, so open files with a reasonable initial blocksize and a > similar extension size.n  D Good move! Tiny CFs can result in a delay while the system finds theA requested number of blocks. My experience is that it can massivlyw% cut the degree of file fragmentation.T  UF > Many files created by the users are <9 blocks, including things like > NETSERVER.LOG.  A And they pile up by the gazillion :( and are not even usefull fork- plugging all those little bits of free space.    -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Jul 2002 00:03:02 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)- Message-ID: <87wusaupqh.fsf@prep.synonet.com>-  * nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:  / > In article <87it3vw6kc.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,c0 > Paul Repacholi  <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:. > >nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:    <munch>   E > When I told two OEMs that there was not a hope in hell (probably in4F > those words) of us procuring a system if the users had to sign IntelA > NDAs, they confirmed that most real customers had told them the1 > same.   B Funny, I was chatting to some one who did the TW thing and went toF Compex(?). He asked about the new boxes, and was told he would have toB sign all sorts of NDAs to get one, and anyone who used it would as" well. He was not impressed at all.  F Another interesting view, is from Intergraph. They have just had a winA over intel for pIV patent infringments. The intanic case is still A ongoing.  Seems intel offered a cut to settle, IG said no, and is E holding out for cash on the barrel. Seems they are less than enthusedoA with future prospects. Mind, IG is not a real good pointer to the  future!      -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 20:24:53 -0700 . From: spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) Subject: Re: UAF questions= Message-ID: <b096a4ee.0207051924.46436a7e@posting.google.com>1  s spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<b096a4ee.0207021646.2c2e1ca8@posting.google.com>...ot > SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman) wrote in message news:<343f30ae.0207021026.c5dc420@posting.google.com>... > > "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> wrote in message news:<92EFB80E551BD511B39500D0B7B0CDCC0642C5D2@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>...tR > > > A cleaner solution would be to create a concealed-device logical that pointsQ > > > to the directory where you want the users' directories to reside.  That way1O > > > if you get additional disk drives and want to move the users' directoriesmQ > > > then you just change where the logical points and you do not have to modify O > > > all the accounts in the UAF.  Section 6.3.3 of the "Guide to OpenVMS FilesN > > > Applications" explains how to set up a rooted-device logical name.  ThisF > > > guide can be found via the link to the OpenVMS documentation at:& > > > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com/> > >  > > $ SET DEFAULT disk:[000000]o > > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER] ! > > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.JOE] " > > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER.MARY] > > etc., for new users andi    @ As noted in another post, add /OWNER=[JOE], /OWNER=[MARY] to the create/dir commands above.     > > $ CREATE/DIRECTORY [USER]o# > > $ RENAME [000000]JOE.DIR [USER]C$ > > $ RENAME [000000]MARY.DIR [USER]H > > etc., for existing users. Note that renaming directories will resultH > > in the next incremental backup being larger than expected for recent > > versions of BACKUP.e    = Sorry, another comment: The following line should be added todD SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM so that it is run during startup. Be sure@ to put it in the right place in SYLOGICALS.COM as it ends with aE subroutine. Don't put it in the subroutine! Find the EXIT command fore4 the main part of the routine and put it before that.  F > > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC  USERDISK  disk:[USER.]/TRANSLATION=CONCEALED     > Oops! I forgot.... > N > $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM  ! unless SYSUAF is defined to be your sysuaf file. > 	 > Then...o > ? > > $ MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY JOE /DEVICE=USERDISK:/DIRECTORY=[JOE]m > > A > > $ MC AUTHORIZE MODIFY MARY /DEVICE=USERDISK:/DIRECTORY=[MARY]: > >  > > etc. > > A > > When MARY logs in she'll see her default as USERDISK:[MARY]!.4 > > H > > Warning: Beware of the 8 directory-level limit if it applies to yourH > > system! Users will be able to create 9th-level directories, files inH > > which won't be saved by incremental save operations for some systemsE > > (depends on file system, version of BACKUP that you're using, andeH > > whether the BACKUP command refers to USERDISK or the physical disk).  e  n Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman gfigroup com-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 00:23:39 -0400 ' From: Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>  Subject: Re: UAF questions< Message-ID: <howard-604923.00233906072002@enews.newsguy.com>  = In article <b096a4ee.0207051924.46436a7e@posting.google.com>, 0  spamsink2001@yahoo.com (Alan E. Feldman) wrote:  ? > Sorry, another comment: The following line should be added tosF > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.COM so that it is run during startup. Be sureB > to put it in the right place in SYLOGICALS.COM as it ends with aG > subroutine. Don't put it in the subroutine! Find the EXIT command forw6 > the main part of the routine and put it before that.  I I suggest you take a look at SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE to see what bE the rest of us are looking at.  I don't recall SYLOGICALS.COM coming h with a subroutine.   -- i# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  I hope you have good backups!c) Are there any more networked SJFs around?,   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 18:41:29 -0700u) From: P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young)s) Subject: Re: VMS IO up to the level of PCb= Message-ID: <55f85d77.0207051741.497be407@posting.google.com>-  n P.Young@unsw.EDU.AU (Patrick Young) wrote in message news:<55f85d77.0207050813.46e393bc@posting.google.com>... > L > From what I am *told* the 39160 is "Window(tm)_stripped_down_ware". I haveD > not tried one and don't know - but would be surprised if it works. >   D I think I made a single bit error - *1*9160, not *3*9160. I have not% seen or tried either of these though.N  I > I have found in the past that Adaptec is not forthcoming on data sheetsd+ > where U160 is involved. Has this changed?b   *bump*   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 13:58:31 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com>rQ Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal $ Message-ID: <3d25de76$1@news.si.com>  & >That shark is art by Sorayama Hajime.  K Seems to me, then, that using it (or making a copy of it) is a violation ofr copyright laws.- --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com-A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com.= 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to preventn< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:10:50 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>I# Subject: Where to put startup stuffI, Message-ID: <3D267BD8.59B274D4@videotron.ca>  M It used to be that a site would put all the startup stuff in SYSTARTUP_V5.COMh  N So, when you inherited a system, a good study of that file would give a singleL point to follow what went on during system boot, including what software was5 started up, what logicals were being defined etc etc.o  B But then came that SYSMAN and its STARTUP phases thing, as well as0 SYLOGICALS.COM and probably other files as well.  N Am I being too conservative in sticking to SYSTARTUP_VMS and avoiding the rest ?   J When you inherit a new system, is there a comprehensive list of files (notN called by SYSTARTUP_VMS) to look it where the former system manager would have added customizations ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 13:30:07 -0700 & From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: wow, Message-ID: <3D2601CF.3030700@gregcagle.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Greg Cagle wrote:r >  >>[snip]H >>And there is also the "Strategic Management Roundtable" at HP World in >>September. >  > G > Are you suggesting that we may be able to submit some input that willh > have a noticeable impact?e >   D Not necessarily - just calling attention to the forum as a potential, means of input to upper level HP management.   -- p
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2002 14:34:39 -0700z. From: SPAMSINK2001@YAHOO.COM (Alan E. Feldman)Y Subject: Re: [OT]  Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in the status of VMS ar e= Message-ID: <343f30ae.0207051334.7caa0bd3@posting.google.com>t  t "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<EYaV8.559231$%y.36742574@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...= > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in messageg9 > news:b096a4ee.0207041956.7e875e46@posting.google.com...t9 > > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in messages@ >  news:<4_8U8.81586$Ca2.4755216@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...A > > > "Alan E. Feldman" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = > > > news:b096a4ee.0207011838.3539685d@posting.google.com...t >  > ...z >  > > > > Am I missing something
 > > > > here?  > > >MH > > > Yes.  And since it's been called to your attention already, either >  you're a @ > > > bit slow or not really making the effort to understand it. > >t > >t# > > Let's refrain from the insults.e > K > Feel free to act as you see fit; as for me, I'll decide on a case-by-casetM > basis.  When you ask a question, be prepared for a straight answer:  if youoK > hadn't attempted to be cute in asking it, I might have been less blunt in- > responding to it.1    F There's blunt, and then there's insulting. You were insulting, or both if you wish.     [SNIP]I > You're really full of shit, you know.  Or completely ignorant of simpleo [SNIP]  C This is completely uncalled for. I can say the same thing back, and-E sort of already did, but so what? What good comes from this? None. Oh E yeah, well I can come up with worse insults. Oh yeah, well my insults F are meaner than yours. Oh yeah, Sez who. Sez me. Sez who?  ... Please.  F I haven't had access to your response to my first response to this, if> you responded already, that is, but I am tired of the insults.  C You seem more interested in insulting than in having a discussion. a  D I also wish to apologize for the, well, my not so great reactions toF your insults in my previous reply to this post. Perhaps I overreacted.@ I'm not interested in an insult battle. Your behavior speaks for itself.   C And while I apologize for mine, that doesn't mean I forgive you for  yours.    # [more discussion from Bill omitted]     B I've made my case and you made yours. I see no point in continuingF this. This conversation can serve no further purpose. Open the pod bay doors, Hal... :-)      Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  afeldman gfigroup com    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.368 ************************