1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 07 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 370       Contents:; Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in t  Re: .scn files Re: 500 bytes long parameter! Re: Advice on SCSI options sought ! Re: Advice on SCSI options sought  DIRECTORY /EXCLUDE=*.*;0  ??  Re: DIRECTORY /EXCLUDE=*.*;0  ??+ Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. $ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...+ Re: Importing Eudora mail into CSWB/Mozilla ' Importing Eudora mail into CSWS/Mozilla + Re: Importing Eudora mail into CSWS/Mozilla = Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS = Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS = Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)  Re: OpenVMS USB questions  Re: OpenVMS USB questions  Re: OpenVMS USB questions  Re: OpenVMS USB questions  Re: OpenVMS USB questions  Re: Pascal Editor 8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations+ Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)  Vms documentation  Re: Vms documentation  Re: Vms documentation H Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal Re: Where to put startup stuff Re: wow   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 09:57:53 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)D Subject: Re: (OT) Carl Rowan and guns (was Re: A possible shift in tJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607020957530001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  3 In article <vKh4l9UI3h+F@eisner.encompasserve.org>, , young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) wrote:  I >In article <x7mV8.554087$Gs.36966652@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, "Bill & Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> writes:  2 >>> Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right >>> Ann H. Coulter >>  I >> I suspect it will occupy a position of reverence on the shelves of the N >> crypto-Fascist religious right comparable to the one Mein Kampf occupied in) >> another era.  Goebbels would be proud.  >>   > N >        "At the risk of helping liberals formulate more persuasive arguments,G >        there are a few pointers that might help them upgrade from the K >        overheated demagogic rhetoric of fanatical cult members.  A little G >        variation in epithets would at least create the illusion of an K >        argument.  "Nazi" can be used properly in a sentence, but it tends N >        to to lose its sting when you call every Republican a Nazi.  "Stupid"C >        [I might add "Idiot"] is also a fine word... For the left, I >        name-calling need bear no relationship to the facts:  It is mere  >        liturgy." >  > $ >                        Ann CoulterG >                        Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right   >                        page 20    0 Rob, you couldn't have PAID for a better set-up.  @ Of course, you could have (and likely did) predict the response.   :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 14:59:16 -0500 / From: Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com>  Subject: Re: .scn files 8 Message-ID: <5vieiu8etbrbtcdssbup8cjgvrvludepol@4ax.com>  M .SCN source code - VAX Scan language - compiler available on VMS Freeware CD.   G On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:04:38 +0530, "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> wrote:    >Hi, > J >Encountered one more type of files (.SCN files). These were programmed in >1988. > E >These file have Token sections,  Type section,  Declaration SECTION, % >PROCEDURE SECTION and MACRO Section.  > K >PROCEDURE SECTIONS contians the external declarations of functions defined  >in other .scn files.  > M >The functions defined in this file ( Called MACRO's here) are defined in the  >MACRO section.  > 2 >PROCEDURE PARSE( file_name: varying STRING(256)); >DECLARE status  >. >. >.2 >These functions get called from the .C files like >  >parse(&argument); > ? >Obviously the OpenVMS debugger cannot debug in to these files.  > > >I need more info on these file.  Can anybody help me on this. >  >Thanks  >Vivek >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:00:27 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> % Subject: Re: 500 bytes long parameter ' Message-ID: <3D277ABE.4438FE60@fsi.net>    Goran Domazet wrote: > E > Is there a way to use 500 bytes long parameter in VMS (limit is 256  > bytes, right?).  > F > I need to execute Unix command via rsh (its VMS equivalent), and the/ > parameter it expects is about 500 bytes long.   G First guess time says no, but in practice it may actually work. You may A need to do some discovery through trial and error, unless you are 6 prepared to detail your project here in the newsgroup.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2002 15:13:39 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Advice on SCSI options sought3 Message-ID: <msV4+8JEH6$3@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-0607020952080001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:   L > Since you have BA356 shelves already, you could give them wide personalityH > modules and run wide disks.  IIRC, this would also let you connect twoJ > shelves to the KZPSA and run 14 drives on one bus -- if you need capcity > more than speed.  + Are you saying that wide disks are slower ?   8 Or are you commenting on the possibility of contention ?   Or is it something else ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 09:52:08 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Advice on SCSI options soughtJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607020952080001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  C In article <62vaiuguo5cfknt2t8r93svn10167ng9os@4ax.com>, John Laird * <john@laird-towers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:  J >Currently, the system runs on a pair of Microvax 3100/96s (gamely runningM >6.2 for a variety of reasons) arranged as a master/slave hot-standby pair of I >standalone nodes.  Disk capacity is about 8Gb from RZ26s and 28s mounted I >either internally or in BA350s.  We do not use any RAID techniques - the J >slave is a full mirror of the master system, providing perfectly adequateK >resiliency.  At busy times, the machine is maxed out either on CPU or disk J >I/O (memory is adequate at 512Mb and 256Mb).  We would like to improve on( >both.  (At minimal cost, of course ;-)) > L >We have acquired a pair of Alphaserver 800 5/333 machines, which apart fromH >a necessary memory upgrade (to 1Gb most probably), have *nearly* enoughL >storage options and boxes.  Nearly...  They were an NT cluster - each has aM >KZPSA FWD SCSI adapter, connected to a single HSZ50 and thence to two BA356s I >with 8-bit personality modules and 4x RZ29L-VAs.  I assume NT clustering L >supported some style of dual-hosted or dual-pathed disks.  There is also anK >internal RZ28 (SCA variant).  Clearly, we have adequate disk capacity, but K >the single HSZ is a problem.  (We will not SCSI cluster the two machines.)   H I've never used this particular system.  Is it supported with VMS?  I'll assume it is...   E This hardware will run circles around your current Vax stuff in every E category.  You might hit a disk I/O bandwidth limit if you are mainly J working a single spindle.  The KZPSA should be able to keep several RZ29Ls< busy.  If you tend to spread the work among several spindles8 simultaneously, the drives may not be a limiting factor.  P Have you decided not to cluster at all, or are you just rejecting SCSI clusters?  J I see no reason for a SCSI cluster since you already have the HSZ, but the1 KZPSAs could be clustered if you needed to do it.    >I see three possibilities:  > M >1.  Acquire another 2nd user HSZ50 (plus writeback cache) and have identical H >setups.  Is this likely to be costly, either in purchase or maintenance >terms ?  H Dunno.  What counts as "costly"?  For me, anything that starts with "HS"
 is costly.    J >2.  Live with an asymmetric configuration where one machine has the HSZ50L >and the other will need a bus convertor for the BA box (a DWZZx ?) directlyI >connected.  I assume such a device might be a little harder to find, but  >cheaper than an HSZ50 ?  N DWZZx units are pretty cheap.  They appear to be at least 4 at ebay right now:   http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&query=dwzz%2A&srchdesc=y&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&ebaytag1=ebayreg&ht=1&category0=160&st=0  ? ... or just search for dwzz* in category computers.  Under $50.   I I think a DWZZC can be jumpered to work like a DWZZA or a DWZZB, but I've  never had one to try out.   E >3.  Decide the external narrow disks might still prove a performance M >bottleneck and look at the internal option.  The onboard Qlogic card is also L >fast-wide and there are a total of 4 slots in the drive cage.  I can sourceL >2nd user Seagate ST19171WC 9Gb disks for the grand sum of $30 equivalent inG >quantities of 10 or more.  My concerns would be the performance of the G >Qlogic vs the KZPSA/HSZ50 (although the former is working with devices K >capable of twice the transfer rate), and the perennial issue of non-Compaq H >drives, firmware revisions, etc.  Any opinions on either worry would be >greatly appreciated.   I Don't know about the performance of the Qlogic (you didn't even say which H one), but the KZPSA was pretty top-of-the-line in its day.  IIRC, it canJ do about 1000 I/Os per second with pretty small load on the CPU.  That bigJ i960 chip is doing most of the work.  Since you have the Qlogic, you mightJ as well split the workload between multiple busses.  BUT -- off-brand SCSIH devices are much less likely to work before VMS 7.1 or so.  With a newerB VMS, 3rd-party SCSI is usually fine if you don't push it to hard. J Multi-host, shadowing, extreme I/O loads, and other dark corners are where subtle problems tend to appear.   J If you're going to the trouble to upgrade all this other stuff, you should; really go to VMS 7.3 (or 7.3.1, if you wait a month or so).   J Since you have BA356 shelves already, you could give them wide personalityF modules and run wide disks.  IIRC, this would also let you connect twoH shelves to the KZPSA and run 14 drives on one bus -- if you need capcity more than speed.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:30:51 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> % Subject: DIRECTORY /EXCLUDE=*.*;0  ?? ' Message-ID: <3D27456B.359E1B6E@aaa.com>    Hi. 6 Doing some experimenting with DIRECTORY, it's obviouse! that the following syntax is OK :    $ DIR /EXCLUDE=*.*;100  ; that will exclude any file with exactly version number 100.   + But neither of the following syntax works :    $ DIR /EXCLUDE=*.*;0 $ DIR /EXCLUDE=*.*;-10  @ No files at all is returned. Is there any special/logical reasonD that rellative version numbers don't work with the /EXCLUDE switch ?   Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:37:18 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> ) Subject: Re: DIRECTORY /EXCLUDE=*.*;0  ?? ' Message-ID: <3D2746EE.D14F1585@aaa.com>   : Well, before anyone flaming me, yes, this is documented...  = But anyway, I think it would be "handy" to be able to exclude : using rellative version numbers and I can't se any obvious technical problem with it.  	 Jan-Erik.    Jan-Erik Sderholm wrote:  >  > Hi. 8 > Doing some experimenting with DIRECTORY, it's obviouse# > that the following syntax is OK :  >  > $ DIR /EXCLUDE=*.*;100 > = > that will exclude any file with exactly version number 100.  > - > But neither of the following syntax works :  >  > $ DIR /EXCLUDE=*.*;0 > $ DIR /EXCLUDE=*.*;-10 > B > No files at all is returned. Is there any special/logical reasonF > that rellative version numbers don't work with the /EXCLUDE switch ? >  > Jan-Erik Sderholm.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:23:14 GMT 2 From: Gib Copeland <copeland@jenni.path.uiowa.edu>4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !3 Message-ID: <3D276DD1.2030807@jenni.path.uiowa.edu>    Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes in article <3D25609D.BFB2B9AE@aaa.com> dated Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:02:21 +0200: > 0 >>What's the added cost for shipment to Sweden ?& >>What whould an extra KZPBA-CA cost ? >>@ >>One of thoses would nicely replace my DEC AXP 2000 modell 300,) >>who is becoming more and more tired...   >  > I > You realize the DS10L, being designed for low profile, only takes 1 PCI H > card.  You can't have both a SCSI card and a video card.  This isn't a2 > problem for everybody, but you need to be aware. > < > IMHO a plain old DS10 would make a nicer hobbyist machine. > - > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org @ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    R An option might be the 3X-DEPVZ-AA, Permedia P2 graphics, 10/100 NIC, 1-port USCSI3 PCI combo adapter.  How much would that run, David?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2002 18:43:03 -0600 + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) F Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.3 Message-ID: <sYzWXzJdjofl@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <tpG6oabeEIMm@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes: P > The article at http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=725092002 reports 650= > job losses at Compaq Erskine, in Scotland's "Silicon Glen".  > L > Whilst obviously unfortunate for those affected, perhaps this is a case of$ > "every cloud has a silver lining". > P > "Ian McNair, the vice president of Hewlett Packard for Europe, the Middle EastP > and Africa, said: "I'm confident that we'll secure the future of the remainingK > workers, but no-one in this business can guarantee anything for certain."  > I > Mr McNair tried to explain the rationale behind the job losses, adding: E > "Neither Hewlett Packard or Compaq are producing money-making PCs."  > P > Wow. The VP of EMEA actually admitting that HP/CPQ aren't making money on PCs. > Q > "An Executive [the Scottish Executive] spokesman said: "We regret the company's J > decision. We understand, however, that it has come about partly due to aN > decision by Compaq-Hewlett Packard to focus on the high end, high value sideR > of its business and is part of a much larger programme of job cuts worldwide and/ > throughout Europe, the Middle East and Asia."  > N > So HPQ are admitting that the high end, high value side of their business isK > worthy of focus. What a pleasant change from all the PC emphasis  we have  > had to listen to!     H 	There is a plausible explanation.  How much of it to believed I suppose@ 	is up to the reader, but it does read good.  Part of it states:  ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=4245  N THE FACT THAT Compaq's "PCs first" attitude continued until the merger with HPL was consummated can hardly be refuted. What may not be so obvious is that itO may have been this attitude that got HP's attraction - and not necessarily in a ! way that Compaq would have liked.    [snip]  M In tough times these low-end systems suffer from a critical disadvantage when N compared to the high-end offerings. In most cases the low-end products produceM little or no ongoing income whereas the high-end systems continue to generate N income from annual maintenance, support and licensing charges. Such income canM help cushion the effects of a sustained downturn in sales and this appears toNO have been an issue that Compaq failed to recognise but HP, with a background ofo. balance in their sales efforts, certainly did.   ---f  A 	Maybe Compaq failed to recognize it, but Todd et al... certainly  	did and penned the following:  S http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=921fl3%24pdv%241%40pyrite.mv.net&output=gplaink  < 	Many of the points in the Inquirer article overlap what was> 	penned much earlier in the above URL by a bunch of arm-chair  	quarterbacks.  A 	That, and I have often been caught referring to PCs as very mucho 	like popcorn:  Z http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=n9zkhJYGqY9I%40eisner.encompasserve.org&output=gplain  + From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young)i Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsI+ Subject: Re: VMS future, a sense of deja vum  Date: 14 Oct 2001 11:19:18 -0500  G 	PCs are like popcorn.  Billions and billions in revenues and no money   	to be made.     ---c  B 	It's not surprising that HP "gets it."  What was/is so surprisingA 	is that the PC mentality was/is so entrenched in Compaq-classic,o@ 	in the face of very glaring facts.  Just because PCs got you toB 	the big dance, doesn't mean you have to go down with the PC ship.  # 	Shoot, for Compaq to be talking upi> 	PCs right up to the finalization of the merger tells us they B 	had way too much of a power base in the PC segments within the Q.   				Robr   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:56:17 GMTd* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>F Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.@ Message-ID: <AZOV8.68335$vq.3158866@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  8 "Rob Young" <young_r@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:sYzWXzJdjofl@eisner.encompasserve.org...MH > In article <tpG6oabeEIMm@elias.decus.ch>, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) writes:   ...f  D > > So HPQ are admitting that the high end, high value side of their business is H > > worthy of focus. What a pleasant change from all the PC emphasis  we have > > had to listen to!R >( > I > There is a plausible explanation.  How much of it to believed I suppose-A > is up to the reader, but it does read good.  Part of it states:K >9* > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=4245  L Another significant sentence:  "Had sufficient pressure been brought to bearJ on Compaq they may have modified their marketing strategy and within a few= years reached a position of challenging IBM, all without HP.".  G But this theory that HP may properly value what Compaq did not fails tosL account for the Alphacide (which Carly clearly was aware of before the fact)L and its effect on exactly those products (Tru64, VMS, and associated storageE and service) that constitute the bulk of the business that the author,J guesses HP is interested in.  One could assert (as indeed Compaq did) thatL the announced demise of Tru64 (no port to Itanic) will have little effect onL its market (because its current customers will happily migrate to HP-UX) andL that no current or prospective VMS customers will be discouraged by the lackJ of a long-term-viable VMS platform over the next two years, but since suchG assertions have already been more than adequately proven to be absolute L rubbish one is left with the conclusion that HP management is either just asF incompetent as Compaq's was or simply more adept at raising short-term, customer hopes with little basis in reality.  L The latter seems more likely to me.  Just as Compaq (at least after PfeifferK got the boot) had little interest in the 'proprietary' products it acquiredtG with DEC, so, except for short-term income, does HP seem likely to haveuJ little interest in those same products (save perhaps for storage products)G it acquired with Compaq:  as long as it can hold onto the customers andaF service revenue (plus the Tandem folks until such time as it no longerL thinks it needs them), the other DEC products are likely at best of interest< as cash cows - and only then as long as they're docile ones.  I Press releases cost nothing:  they're not so much an indication of any HPsL 'commitment' as a reflection of just how incompetent Compaq was in not doingL the same.  As always, the real indication of commitment is financial:  if HPJ devotes significant amounts of cash both to advertising VMS and to new VMSL development (not just the Intel-funded port) then there'll be some reason to reassess the situation.g   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:38:28 GMT.* From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...oB Message-ID: <UGHV8.574190$Gs.37705232@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D2724B6.D7F7C166@videotron.ca... > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:2L > > Yup. HPQ has had McKinley boxes (workstations, primarily) in house sinceJ > > very early this year. And plenty of work has been done in the McKinley* > > developers platform, whatever that is. >eL > Something which puzzles me. If McKinley was still being debugged last week and G > is only now ready to be unveiled, what sort of "McKinley" would thoses earlyu% > workstations have been built with ?s  K Since your initial assumption above is probably incorrect, your question isr probably irrelevant.  H McKinley has had running silicon for well over a year.  While it's quiteK possible that they've fixed a few bugs in that time that could have held upfG shipment, it seems far more likely that they've spent the bulk of their I efforts on performance, both of the hardware itself and of the compilers:iD releasing a second sub-par processor, with a core that Intel appearsA destined to live with until at least 2006 (though it may get some K significant ancillary on-chip enhancements in 2005), would very likely haverJ nailed Itanic's coffin securely shut, so having something to brag about atJ McKinley's release was absolutely critical, even if it delayed the release date.s  J The degree to which Intel is publicly bragging about just about everythingI *except* SPEC performance still makes one wonder whether we'll really see G the 760+ SPECint2K figure leaked last week (especially given that we'veiJ never seen the 400 SPECint2K figure for Merced that accompanied the leak).B Since it would seem unlikely that Intel could sell many productionL processors if each were accompanied by an NDA in its license, we should know soon.s   >DG > When building an OS, do you really want to be working on a buggy chipt where2I > you can't tell if a problem is due to your OS code or the chip itself ?f  H Yes, as long as the chip mostly works most of the time (and its bugs areI fairly well defined rather than random, which can usually be made true byeL underclocking it if necessary) and if the alternative is either to ship yourL OS a year later (the extra time you'd wait for the hardware to stabilize) orK to develop on a simulator (which may help in the initial stages but is justd. too slow and clumsy for the bulk of the work).   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2002 19:46:02 GMTe( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...-0 Message-ID: <ag7hdq$bb4$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  , In article <3D2724B6.D7F7C166@videotron.ca>,/ JF Mezei  <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:r >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:K >> Yup. HPQ has had McKinley boxes (workstations, primarily) in house since I >> very early this year. And plenty of work has been done in the McKinley ) >> developers platform, whatever that is.s > O >Something which puzzles me. If McKinley was still being debugged last week and L >is only now ready to be unveiled, what sort of "McKinley" would those early$ >workstations have been built with ? > L >When building an OS, do you really want to be working on a buggy chip whereH >you can't tell if a problem is due to your OS code or the chip itself ?  > All rumours are that the McKinley has been stable for a while,? and so has HP's workstation chipset.  The last-minute debugginglC was in Intel's chipset, and it will be very interesting to discovera? if Bandera will be genuinely available or merely orderable ....n  > For obvious reasons related to confidentiality, I am not goingB to speculate in public about the "Wildfire level" chipsets, exceptA to say that all of HP, SGI, IBM and NEC will bear watching.  Theyy@ all announced that they had multi-CPU Merced chipsets, and it is@ reasonable to assume that they will either have McKinley ones or" will have taken a decision not to.  D So there will be six really interesting aspects to the announcement:  @     1) Which vendors, if any, announce serious SMP servers using
 the McKinley.t  D     2) Which vendors announce workstations using their own chipsets.  ;     3) Whether Intel announces Bandera and its own chipset.w  A     4) Which OEMs, if any and applicable, announce products basedt on the Bandera.h  ?     5) Whether any OEMs back anyone else's workstation chipset.H  >     6) What on earth Microsoft gets up to - specifically which? combinations of its operating systems and hardware platform arec
 supported.  D In all case, I mean products with dates.  Mere trumpet blowing isn'tB interesting.  And, no, I don't regard the performance figures that@ will be spouted at us as interesting - until I see some produced7 by an independent party, I shall take them well salted.      Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 20:05:16 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... @ Message-ID: <04IV8.65362$vq.2884991@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3D27230F.DE220D2E@videotron.ca...   ...a  K > And it is exactly because Digital refused to follow the pack that Digitalg no > longer exists.   Wrong.  J Digital tried to follow the pack early-on with at least 3 PC projects, twoH of which were at least semi-compatible with the IBM product.  That was aA fairly expensive failure ($500 million is the figure I remember).9  K Digital then tried to follow the pack by making truly compatible PC clones.lJ That failed too (DEC still didn't know how to produce a sufficiently cheap	 product).l  K Digital then followed the pack by purchasing PC clones (from Olivetti?) anduH selling them as its own.  That didn't fail, but also didn't dramatically succeed.  F Digital then attempted to *lead* the pack by trying to cannibalize itsJ traditional sales to support its Wintel division.  That succeeded in part:H its traditional sales were cannibalized, but not by its Wintel division.  K So Digital's attempts to follow the pack were a large part of the reason it J no longer exists, the other part being the 'nichefying' of its traditionalI products that these attempts engendered.  Had DEC instead concentrated on-F keeping its traditional products competitive in both their traditionalG markets and as added-value-adjuncts to the PC market (servers being theCJ largest and most obvious initial target, with the strategy of establishingH Alpha as the natural upward-migration path from the PC perhaps even moreG important), it could have ignored the pack completely and thrived whilewL retaining the option to include PC clones in its repertoire wherever it made& sense (much as IBM has done recently).   ...-  K > So far, all indications are that IA64 will remain a low volume chip, justl as  > PA-RISC, Sparc, MIPS or Alpha.  L No.  The indications are that either Intel (and HP) will succeed in creatingJ a volume market for Itanic despite its drawbacks or that it will die.  LowK volume is not really a viable option, given the magnitude of its continuingg development expense.  K If the McKinley core is perceived to have sufficient performance to hang inuF there through Madison and Montecito and whatever happens in 2005 (whenL on-chip memory and MP enhancements seem likely to join it, assuming that theG Alpha team core enhancements won't appear until at least 2006), then itrK should attain higher volumes than the competitors you listed; if not, Intel D may continue to sell it through Montecito (because relatively littleI incremental development expenditure will be required) but the handwriting # will be on the wall for all to see.I   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:04:38 GMT 0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...d> Message-ID: <MPG.1791417d29ccb8489896b1@news.bellatlantic.net>  A In article <04IV8.65362$vq.2884991@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>, > billtodd@metrocast.net says... > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D27230F.DE220D2E@videotron.ca... >  > ...o > M > > And it is exactly because Digital refused to follow the pack that Digital  > no > > longer exists. >  > Wrong. > L > Digital tried to follow the pack early-on with at least 3 PC projects, twoJ > of which were at least semi-compatible with the IBM product.  That was aC > fairly expensive failure ($500 million is the figure I remember).z > M > Digital then tried to follow the pack by making truly compatible PC clones.hL > That failed too (DEC still didn't know how to produce a sufficiently cheap > product).  > M > Digital then followed the pack by purchasing PC clones (from Olivetti?) and J > selling them as its own.  That didn't fail, but also didn't dramatically
 > succeed. > H > Digital then attempted to *lead* the pack by trying to cannibalize itsL > traditional sales to support its Wintel division.  That succeeded in part:J > its traditional sales were cannibalized, but not by its Wintel division. > M > So Digital's attempts to follow the pack were a large part of the reason itsL > no longer exists, the other part being the 'nichefying' of its traditionalK > products that these attempts engendered.  Had DEC instead concentrated onuH > keeping its traditional products competitive in both their traditionalI > markets and as added-value-adjuncts to the PC market (servers being thelL > largest and most obvious initial target, with the strategy of establishingJ > Alpha as the natural upward-migration path from the PC perhaps even moreI > important), it could have ignored the pack completely and thrived while N > retaining the option to include PC clones in its repertoire wherever it made( > sense (much as IBM has done recently).  I When I first heard the word "affinity", I thought this is what they must tB mean...  Unfortunately, it was always buried in such huge piles ofC market-speak, that I couldn't understand what they were getting at, F until I saw the results (or lack of them) from the "affinity program."  E Just to quibble, I don't think "ignor[ing] the pack completely" is an G accurate description of this course.  I think it is more like followingoF the pack around, nipping at their heels as they falter, and devouring G the casualties. ("Oh, that scheme didn't work very well, did it?  Well,oH what you really need is a reliable server.  You can salvage some of yourG investment by keeping your desktop windows boxes, and using them to runnA mail clients, Word, solitaire, etc. and as clients for your main mF business apps (I.e. fancy terminals, but don't tell them that) running& on your spiffy new Alpha VMS server.")   > ...  > M > > So far, all indications are that IA64 will remain a low volume chip, justr > as" > > PA-RISC, Sparc, MIPS or Alpha. > N > No.  The indications are that either Intel (and HP) will succeed in creatingL > a volume market for Itanic despite its drawbacks or that it will die.  LowM > volume is not really a viable option, given the magnitude of its continuingl > development expense.  D Isn't that the same argument Compaq used when it killed Alpha?  Low D volume wasn't viable, and they doubted their own ability to create a volume market for it.i   > M > If the McKinley core is perceived to have sufficient performance to hang infH > there through Madison and Montecito and whatever happens in 2005 (whenN > on-chip memory and MP enhancements seem likely to join it, assuming that theI > Alpha team core enhancements won't appear until at least 2006), then itoM > should attain higher volumes than the competitors you listed; if not, IntellF > may continue to sell it through Montecito (because relatively littleK > incremental development expenditure will be required) but the handwriting.% > will be on the wall for all to see.t >  > - bill   -- i John   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:18:11 GMTh1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>n- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...o/ Message-ID: <TUKV8.255680$nZ3.115843@rwcrnsc53>z  B > In article <04IV8.65362$vq.2884991@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>,  > billtodd@metrocast.net says... > >s> > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message* > > news:3D27230F.DE220D2E@videotron.ca... > >o > > ...i > >sG > > > And it is exactly because Digital refused to follow the pack that  Digitali > > no > > > longer exists. > >s
 > > Wrong. > >iJ > > Digital tried to follow the pack early-on with at least 3 PC projects, two L > > of which were at least semi-compatible with the IBM product.  That was aE > > fairly expensive failure ($500 million is the figure I remember).i  I Well, the PC100 (aka Rainbow was sorta kinda IBM compatible. Only problemwI was, the Rainbow didn't support the 25th display line. Which rendered the 2 box incompatible with IBM PC applications. Oops...  E The Professional 350 (a desktop PDP-11 dumbed down with an absolutelyRL squatulent window-like UI called P/OS) didn't make it in the market. Had DECL marketed the thing as a desktop-11 and equipped it with RSX or RT-11, things might have been different.  5 The DECmate II was a word processor, pure and simple.a     > >pG > > Digital then tried to follow the pack by making truly compatible PC  clones. H > > That failed too (DEC still didn't know how to produce a sufficiently cheap 
 > > product).   L Amen. Remember the VAXmate? Its claim to fame was an Ethernet card and a CRTJ that tilted 10 degrees or so. It was marketed as a networked PC. It was anH IBM AT-clone. Priced at $6K USD back in 87, it differed from the HyundaiL AT-clone in one key metric: for $6K Hyundai would sell you a PC. With it youG got a car. To the best of my knowledge DEC never bundled a car with theh VAXmate.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:12:29 GMTi# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>H- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...lF Message-ID: <xkOV8.7406$rdy.1490@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message * news:ag6umc$qbb$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk... >tC > A knife can be used to butter bread.  It can also be used to stabt@ > someone in the back.  It was the latter possibility that I was > referring to.  >tB > Would YOU trust Microsoft with your business, if you were CEO of > Intel?    C Certainly not. I agree with you, however you overlook one important)H fact.....take away all the MS-driven business and Intel doesn't have theF financial capacity to develop IA-64. Not when the chip market is still fragmented.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 02:55:36 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...sB Message-ID: <I4OV8.593873$%y.38020160@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>  = "John Santos" <john.santos@post.harvard.edu> wrote in messagey8 news:MPG.1791417d29ccb8489896b1@news.bellatlantic.net...   ...a  G > Just to quibble, I don't think "ignor[ing] the pack completely" is an I > accurate description of this course.  I think it is more like following G > the pack around, nipping at their heels as they falter, and devouringiI > the casualties. ("Oh, that scheme didn't work very well, did it?  Well, J > what you really need is a reliable server.  You can salvage some of yourI > investment by keeping your desktop windows boxes, and using them to rundB > mail clients, Word, solitaire, etc. and as clients for your mainH > business apps (I.e. fancy terminals, but don't tell them that) running( > on your spiffy new Alpha VMS server.")  I 'Ignoring the pack' didn't mean 'ignoring the (PC) phenomonon' (as shouldnJ have been clear from what followed):  it meant doing something sensible toH profit from it (and the rest of the market) rather than mindlessly doing" just what everyone else was doing.  6 Hmmm.  Sounds kind of familiar in today's context too.   ...,  G > > No.  The indications are that either Intel (and HP) will succeed inj creatingI > > a volume market for Itanic despite its drawbacks or that it will die.5 Low.D > > volume is not really a viable option, given the magnitude of its
 continuing > > development expense. >rE > Isn't that the same argument Compaq used when it killed Alpha?  LowoF > volume wasn't viable, and they doubted their own ability to create a > volume market for it.e  H Same argument, different situation, different company, different market.K Compaq already *had* an established and respected product line that largely F sold itself and had efficient development mechanisms that cost a smallI fraction of what Itanic reportedly did, does, and to all appearances willsJ continue to (with dual-path major development efforts aimed 3 and 4+ yearsL out already).  That allowed Alpha to be profitable even at the small volumesD it maintained with negligible marketing effort, with the prospect ofB becoming far more profitable given a bit of help, and ignoring theI leveraging effect Alpha had upon associated Compaq product lines (OSs ande' other software, storage, service, ...).p  L Intel is not a 'system house' in anything like the same sense:  Itanic salesJ at best leverage associated Intel chip, board, and white-box system sales,L and even those in significant part just cannibalize IA32 sales it would haveG made anyway.  Intel's model for making Itanic a profitable endeavor has F always been predicated on the combination of fairly high volume (i.e.,G domination of the 64-bit product space all the way to the bottom) *and*tJ considerably higher margins (at least until such time as IA32 starts to goI away) than it gets with its IA32 lines:  remove either, and other optionsfH (e.g., Yamhill) start looking more attractive to Intel than Itanic does.  H And, if HP really believes that Windows will eviscerate Unix after a fewF more years, even they may not see Itanic as being that vital given howL attractive the Hammer-style approach to 64 bitness is and that plans alreadyG exist to keep both PA-RISC and Alpha going for a while yet.  As long as H Windows has a good platform to run on in the second half of this decade,I they well may not care very much whether it's Itanic- or Hammer-like (buto$ could hardly say that right now...).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 00:25:54 -0500r( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>4 Subject: Re: Importing Eudora mail into CSWB/Mozilla* Message-ID: <3D27D0E2.10201@speakeasy.net>  , (That should have been CSW_B_ up top, sorry)   Ken,?       I didn't even think of trying that.  Thanks for the idea!c   Rich     Ken Robinson wrote: 2 > At 10:42 PM 7/6/2002 -0500, you wrote (in part): > F >> My primary mail at home has been Eudora for wintel, V4.3-2 running E >> under NT Alpha, ever since my ISP took away its shell access (and >I >> Pine).  I've got a considerable amount of mail archived that needs to    >> be moved to any newer system. >> > G > I haven't tried using CSWS to read Eudora MBX files, but I have used sK > earlier versions of Netscape to read them. Try just moving the MBX files tG > and let CSWS rebuild its index file or TOC. The format of the TOC is uB > internal to Eudora and other programs probably won't be able to  > recognize it.u >  > Ken Robinson >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:42:47 -0500d( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>0 Subject: Importing Eudora mail into CSWS/Mozilla, Message-ID: <3D27B8B7.4070003@speakeasy.net>  I My primary mail at home has been Eudora for wintel, V4.3-2 running under dI NT Alpha, ever since my ISP took away its shell access (and Pine).  I've  I got a considerable amount of mail archived that needs to be moved to any a
 newer system.o  E Mozilla 1.0 has been surprisingly adequate in almost everything I've  H tried, so I'm trying to bring my archived email up under it.  There was B a small note in the docs (or the FAQ) that Eudora used the 'mbox' I format, and should be compatible.  The 'Import' function in Mozilla only lH seems to want to work with Netscape mail in a netscape 'configuration', 9 and I've not been able to get it to see the Eudora files.i  H So I binary FTP'd the Eudora .MBX and .TOC files to the PWS, and copied H them into the appropriate mail directory with correct suffixes ("." and H ",MSF").  Mozilla sees the folder, can open the folder and see the mail E subject/date listings, but only the first message can be opened (all tI subsequent ones show the same first message).  Upon doing this, the .MSF nH file was converted to STREAMLF, Carriage Return Carriage Control.  So I A recopied the files from the original transfers, used FILE to set tI attributes on them (RAT:CR, RFM:STMLF), and get better results but still b some wierdness.s  G First; about half the messages show unread, the other read, apparently tF random.  The first message (which was correct before) now shows up as I blank subject, 1969 date (earlier than the first internet email!  heh!), 3C and a partial message; at random intervals there are messages that  H preview as blanks (no text); under Eudora there's a message there.  The 0 messages preceding and following a blank are OK.  I I'm assuming its still a file format or transfer problem.  There doesn't 8F seem to be anything much on Eudora mail importing beyond the mentions F above at the mozilla site, and several google searches have turned up F essentially empty.  I'm going to keep trying.  Heck, worse case I can G set up a mail server on the Alpha and actually remail it all, but that fH would lose the timestamps and senders (in the displayed headers), so if I anyone out there has relevant info on doing this (or importing mail from f. other programs), I'd love to hear it.  Thanks!   Rich Jordann   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:49:56 -0400e& From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@rcn.com>4 Subject: Re: Importing Eudora mail into CSWS/Mozilla< Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020706224607.0318e7b0@pop.rcn.com>  0 At 10:42 PM 7/6/2002 -0500, you wrote (in part):J >My primary mail at home has been Eudora for wintel, V4.3-2 running under J >NT Alpha, ever since my ISP took away its shell access (and Pine).  I've J >got a considerable amount of mail archived that needs to be moved to any  >newer system. >d  E I haven't tried using CSWS to read Eudora MBX files, but I have used  I earlier versions of Netscape to read them. Try just moving the MBX files iE and let CSWS rebuild its index file or TOC. The format of the TOC is aM internal to Eudora and other programs probably won't be able to recognize it.t   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:04:57 GMTg1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>eF Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS' Message-ID: <3D277BCB.A00995F6@fsi.net>d   JOUKJ wrote: >  > Hi Folks,  > E > I created a new web page (http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/) onoE > which I'm planning to give a summary of all Publicdomain software I I > contributed ports and/or patches to in order to have it run on OpenVMS.lF > The page consists of link to where to get it, what to patch and what; > software it depends on (and links to these dependencies).eF > I hope this page will help to make it easier to find/install/run the > software on OpenVMS. > I > The present page is an initial version. More packages will be added thenH > coming weeks, but already contains some nice ports not found elsewhere& > on OpenVMS pages(i.e. Ted & Pfaedit)  2 The effort is much needed and greatly appreciated.  F However, I must agree with Jan-Erik and company: the color scheme is aE bit painful. Red on magenta is virtually invisible to some, just as Il, cannot see dark blue on black or vice-versa.  G I prefer to use the browser's default background color with black text.eG Most browsers default to white background (though some do not), so thisn is usually rather safe.o  : As always, YMMV, some restrictions apply, not valid in all6 jurisdictions, consult an expert before investing, ...   -- a David J. Dachterad dba DJE SystemsF http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/n   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:36:11 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>pF Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS? Message-ID: <L9LV8.306173$6m5.285189@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>u  < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D277BCB.A00995F6@fsi.net...o > JOUKJ wrote: > >y
 > > Hi Folks,s > >CG > > I created a new web page (http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/) ondG > > which I'm planning to give a summary of all Publicdomain software IIK > > contributed ports and/or patches to in order to have it run on OpenVMS.pH > > The page consists of link to where to get it, what to patch and what= > > software it depends on (and links to these dependencies).eH > > I hope this page will help to make it easier to find/install/run the > > software on OpenVMS. > >uK > > The present page is an initial version. More packages will be added the*J > > coming weeks, but already contains some nice ports not found elsewhere( > > on OpenVMS pages(i.e. Ted & Pfaedit) >t4 > The effort is much needed and greatly appreciated. >tH > However, I must agree with Jan-Erik and company: the color scheme is aG > bit painful. Red on magenta is virtually invisible to some, just as Ih. > cannot see dark blue on black or vice-versa. >t  L Yep, the current colour scheme might render the site virtually unreadable toJ the ~10 percent of the male population that suffers from colour blindness.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:30:24 -0400i From: GcE <gce@gce.com>tF Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS$ Message-ID: <3D277D90.30807@gce.com>  V Let me also commend the web page author. Perhaps he might let us know what is up with W the bits on the ftp site, too, that look for example like ports of Gnumeric or BOCHS...e     id J. Dachtera wrote:d > JOUKJ wrote: >  >>Hi Folks,h >>E >>I created a new web page (http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/) onhE >>which I'm planning to give a summary of all Publicdomain software I I >>contributed ports and/or patches to in order to have it run on OpenVMS.pF >>The page consists of link to where to get it, what to patch and what; >>software it depends on (and links to these dependencies).iF >>I hope this page will help to make it easier to find/install/run the >>software on OpenVMS. >>I >>The present page is an initial version. More packages will be added theyH >>coming weeks, but already contains some nice ports not found elsewhere& >>on OpenVMS pages(i.e. Ted & Pfaedit) >  > 4 > The effort is much needed and greatly appreciated. > H > However, I must agree with Jan-Erik and company: the color scheme is aG > bit painful. Red on magenta is virtually invisible to some, just as I.. > cannot see dark blue on black or vice-versa. > I > I prefer to use the browser's default background color with black text..I > Most browsers default to white background (though some do not), so this  > is usually rather safe.  > < > As always, YMMV, some restrictions apply, not valid in all8 > jurisdictions, consult an expert before investing, ... >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:11:17 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>b4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)' Message-ID: <3D277D49.5313A42D@fsi.net>n   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 4 > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageN > news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9267@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. > .. > John,i >  > Some excellent suggestions...  > F > I have no idea of what future marketing stuff is cooking, but what IJ > have seen is a much healthier respect for OpenVMS internally than beforeF > (previous posts have alluded to this) the merger, so we shall see .. > M > Indeed there is a healthier respect. The VMS V7.3 coverage in the press wasiN > not accidental or a matter of happenstance. Bob Blatz and his PR folks had a
 > hand in it.-   "Had a hand in it"???!!!  E I should (would) think (hope) that they were the driving force behind: it!F  @ ...oh, yeah, forgot - they're the "stealth" people, aren't they?   -- n David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemsq http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:27:09 GMTo1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>x4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)? Message-ID: <h1LV8.259759$R61.105494@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>   < "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message! news:3D277D49.5313A42D@fsi.net...  > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > >B6 > > "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message > >lL news:BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D9267@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net. > > ..	 > > John,O > >r! > > Some excellent suggestions...p > >hH > > I have no idea of what future marketing stuff is cooking, but what IL > > have seen is a much healthier respect for OpenVMS internally than beforeH > > (previous posts have alluded to this) the merger, so we shall see .. > >rK > > Indeed there is a healthier respect. The VMS V7.3 coverage in the pressR was J > > not accidental or a matter of happenstance. Bob Blatz and his PR folks had a  > > hand in it.p >  > "Had a hand in it"???!!! >tG > I should (would) think (hope) that they were the driving force behindC > it!d >'B > ...oh, yeah, forgot - they're the "stealth" people, aren't they?  L I don't think Bob was in charge of marketing pre-merger. It's a bit early to) paint Mr. Blatz with the "stealth" brush.a   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 19:15:09 GMTd1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>c" Subject: Re: OpenVMS USB questions+ Message-ID: <3D273FC2.54F4152D@hp.com.doom>k   Patrick,  K 1) The controller in the XP1000 does not work correctly with the USB drivera thatI     will ship in V7.3-1.  It should work but it does not and there are no:
 plans to makePM     it work.  In the past it has taken from 1-3 weeks to make the driver workb	 correctlyo     with a new controller.  H 2) The driver cannot be back ported to V7.3 it relies on changes made to system dataf.     structures that are not available in V7.3.  L 3) The next issue is that there is no support or documentation for writing a USBeM      device driver.  None of the needed library files are shipped with V7.3-1  and I      at the present time there are no plans to change this.  We are stillt
 fiddling witht      the API's.M  D 4)  But all it not lost there has been some talk about producing and unsupportedtL     USB IrDA driver.  There is USB device specification for IrDA devices andL     a couple folks around here have asked me to build a driver.  I told them if theM     came up with the hardware and supplied to IrLAP layer code I would do the0  M     bridge driver.  But only for devices that conform to the "USB IrDA Bridge>  J     Device Definition".  This would have to be an after hours project.  So faraJ     the USB midnight programming work has produces, support for joysticks,I     game pads,  Mass storage device, some keyboards with consumer control E     button arrays, and the start to a driver for scanners (waiting onn
 hardware).     Forrest KenneyB OpenVMS USB project leader and lead USB midnight project programer   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 23:22:22 +0200p From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS USB questions& Message-ID: <3D275F8E.7040302@home.nl>   Forrest Kenney wrote:s
 > Patrick, > M > 1) The controller in the XP1000 does not work correctly with the USB drivers > thatK >     will ship in V7.3-1.  It should work but it does not and there are non > plans to make O >     it work.  In the past it has taken from 1-3 weeks to make the driver workh > correctly  >     with a new controller. > J > 2) The driver cannot be back ported to V7.3 it relies on changes made to
 > system data 0 >     structures that are not available in V7.3. > N > 3) The next issue is that there is no support or documentation for writing a > USBsO >      device driver.  None of the needed library files are shipped with V7.3-1  > andhK >      at the present time there are no plans to change this.  We are stille > fiddling withm >      the API's.l > F > 4)  But all it not lost there has been some talk about producing and
 > unsupported N >     USB IrDA driver.  There is USB device specification for IrDA devices andN >     a couple folks around here have asked me to build a driver.  I told them > if theO >     came up with the hardware and supplied to IrLAP layer code I would do ther > O >     bridge driver.  But only for devices that conform to the "USB IrDA Bridge  > L >     Device Definition".  This would have to be an after hours project.  So > fareL >     the USB midnight programming work has produces, support for joysticks,K >     game pads,  Mass storage device, some keyboards with consumer controlnG >     button arrays, and the start to a driver for scanners (waiting ona > hardware).  O I'm truly impressed by all these 'midnight drivers'. But is there any software yP around that utilizes these drivers ? Otherwise we will have the funny situation M that we have drivers and no software, instead of software and no drivers (as cJ with windooz). And may I suggest drivers for bluetooth equipment to drive  printers etc. ?a   >  >  > Forrest KenneyD > OpenVMS USB project leader and lead USB midnight project programer >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:08:54 GMTt1 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com.doom>t" Subject: Re: OpenVMS USB questions+ Message-ID: <3D27687A.FAC44CEB@hp.com.doom>    Dirk,   R     There is no software to support the joystick, and game pad which I got as part of theF joystick.  We are hoping to have some code demo using them in time for ETS/CETS/DECUS.aQ I have no code for the scanner nor any hardware to finish shaking the driver out.h
 It started asiP a joke and did not take very long to get coded up.  If someone wants to port the
 SANE stuffN from Linux then there will code for it.  There is code being developed for the extra buttons thatP will do things like launch DECWindows mail when you press the mail key.  It will allow a user to tune it.-  S     What gates one of these unsupported drivers getting done is my having access to  theeQ hardware, interest, and is there a USB device class standard that it conforms to.  Finally,7 is there someone around who is willing to help with it.t  P     I know next to nothing about bluetooth and have no hardware to play with.  I took aP quick peek at the Linux code and it does not look all the complex, it looks like	 they makemS it appear as a terminal line.  There needs to be a layer that talks to the terminal 	 that needPA to understand how to send and receive the bluetooth data packets.b  R     Right now the hope is if we release these midnight drivers on the free ware CD othersM will find a use for them.  Anything from the midnight effort is not up to thes OpenVMSeQ standards for robustness or testing.  They are as is and unsupported, if they getd enough7 use and demand maybe we can do real supported versions.a  R     If you want something to go from midnight to real you need to convince productO management that it is worth the cost to make it happen.  I am the chief hacker,m much ofrI the hack code it based on code we already had from proto-type efforts, ora
 productionL code that got morphed into the new driver.  The joystick came from the mouse driver,lO as did the consumer control button driver.  The scanner driver morphed from the( printer.J driver, and mass storage came from a proto-typing effort for work that got	 canceled.e  S     There has been an unexpected benefit from the midnight.  I have found and fixed   K a number of bugs in the supported drivers.  None that were critical for thel	 supportedh& bits in V7.3-1 but needed to be fixed.     Forrestm   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 00:14:40 GMTe. From: Michael Rice <MichaelARice@adelphia.net>" Subject: Re: OpenVMS USB questions) Message-ID: <3D278819.80109@adelphia.net>s   Forrest Kenney wrote:h
 > Patrick, > M > 1) The controller in the XP1000 does not work correctly with the USB driverw > thatK >     will ship in V7.3-1.  It should work but it does not and there are nor > plans to make O >     it work.  In the past it has taken from 1-3 weeks to make the driver worke > correctlyt >     with a new controller.  G There is no chance to get it working with an XP1000?  This was the one rI system that I wanted USB support for - mostly for Iomega Zip and scanner F
 connectivity.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 02:46:45 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> " Subject: Re: OpenVMS USB questionsF Message-ID: <pYNV8.7324$rdy.5146@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  L "Dirk Munk" <munk@home.nl> wrote in message news:3D275F8E.7040302@home.nl... >!G > I'm truly impressed by all these 'midnight drivers'. But is there any  softwareG > around that utilizes these drivers ? Otherwise we will have the funnye	 situationeJ > that we have drivers and no software, instead of software and no drivers (asnK > with windooz). And may I suggest drivers for bluetooth equipment to drivet > printers etc. ?i >   J When we have VMS running on a laptop and you need to access the printer atJ the local Starbucks or a customer site, that's when you'll need Bluetooth.H Until then, VMS is rooted to non-portable machines. Unless of course you2 need to upload the latest game to your cell phone.  G Personally I'd rather see 802.11a/b/g drivers rather than Bluetooth, ifg> priority had to be given to something like these technologies.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:56:10 GMT21 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>o Subject: Re: Pascal Editor' Message-ID: <3D2779BB.3E7523F5@fsi.net>    Hans Vlems wrote:2 > 8 > John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wrote in message& > news:3D260B7C.3020308@qsl.network... > > Hans Vlems wrote:w> > > > Shiva MahaDeva <contracer11@uol.com.br> wrote in message< > > > news:ddf392ea.0207031653.d28e433@posting.google.com... > > >oF > > >>Which Editor can I use im my PC to open Vax Pascal files exactlyD > > >>how I see these files using Edit/EDT files in the VMS system ?F > > >>Id like transfer VAX Pascal files from the VMS system to my PC,2 > > >>and vice versa, keeping the Edit/EDT format. > > >o" > > > Could the answer be NOTEPAD? > >hL > > DOS EDIT or WORDPAD (also known as WRITE) will usually handle text files# > > that were not produced on a PC., > >uK > > Problems with using NOTEPAD on UNIX text files is a common complaint onj+ > > the SAMBA newsgroups and mailing lists.D > >wK > > SAMBA 2.0.6 for OpenVMS can be configured to handle specific extensions  > > as specific file formats.  > >eH > > IIRC: Advanced Server or Pathworks also allow specifying the defaultH > > file format, but it has been a while since I looked at that setting. > >t	 > > -Johno > > wb8tyw@qsl.network > > Personal Opinion Onlyt > >l > G > Correct, but the original post mentioned VAX Pascal files from VMS so  > NOTEPAD is an option.eJ > OTOH it is not that difficult to write a small program to process simple > text files to pass them  > among VMS, Wxx and unix.  E True. I find CONVERT/FDL useful, but there's another trick that workse
 equally well:m   $ COPY NLA0: empty_filespece' $ APPEND stream_filespec empty_filespec   H APPEND will complain about the mismatch of attributes, but the resulting file will be seq/var.p   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:49:24 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>oA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationss' Message-ID: <3D277825.D9CCB81C@fsi.net>    "Bradford J. Hamilton" wrote:b > 
 > Hi Paul, > ^ > In article <878z4rxnar.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:" > > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > <snip> >  > >> * for   /INDEX-F > >> [This used to matter, but does it on a SAN disk?  Would BEGINNINGE > >> be just as good as END, especially if /HEADERS is large enough?]  > >r > > (Lets buy an argument...)e > >-H > > Middle is still the way to go for the same resons it was before. NowI > > before anyone jumps up and metions faster xfers on outer tracks, worknJ > > out where the `middle' is on a zoned disk. I have seen index files endD > > up at the beggining of the disk, but don't know if it is INIT or > > BACKUP I should yell at. > O > Is there some information in the doc regarding "zoned" disks, and the reasonsuM > behind using the middle of the disk for /INDEX?  I'm still kind of new, and  > would appreciate a pointer...   D I don't how well the doc. points it out. The logic is this: with theD INDEXF.SYS (DOS equiv. = FAT) in the middle of the disk, to get fromG there to the furthest file or extent requires the heads to move no moreeH than half of the maximum travel, where this is not true if INDEXF.SYS is placed at either extreme.g  C INDEXF.SYS is where ODS must go to retrieve the extent list for anyrD file. All the file headers belong to INDEXF.SYS, including extension headers.   --   David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemsu http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:34:47 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>lA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsu' Message-ID: <3D2774B9.4EF87D61@fsi.net>e   Bob Ceculski wrote:w > e > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote in message news:<OFBE5599B2.7CD52AB5-ON85256BEA.0070D0F9@metso.com>... 
 > > Larry, > >aK > > I am in substantial agreement with your analysis (to wit:  YMMV), but I 	 > > wouldtJ > > still like to know what my delivered 4.1GB SCSI system disk was INITed	 > > with, ! > > if only as a starting place.?  > >r	 > > -Norm  > >a > >t > >n= > > Please respond to Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e > >m  > > To:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > > cc:tH > > Subject:    Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations > >e > >iC > > In article <OF6F3571AD.7E9844FB-ON85256BEA.0055841F@metso.com>, " > > norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > >)< > > > I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to@ > > > an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). > > >l= > > > If I just use BACKUP/IMAGE the cluster factor increases  > > > from 9 to 35.  > > >r > > > I think 35 is too large. > > >gC > > > I can INITIALIZE the target disk and user BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINITlH > > > to change things, but I have no information on what is reasonable. > >rJ > > What is reasonable is whatever will avoid filling the disk while thereK > > is significant lost space in the leftovers of the last cluster for each I > > file.  Thus this depends entirely on how many files of what size willr > > be on the disk.c > >n5 > > > What does VMS development use? recommend? ship?a > > G > > The VMS operating system components do not have a chance of fillingdG > > 18 GB.  Therefore, either your disk is going to be largely empty or-F > > you are going to put "other" files on the system disk.  The answerE > > to your question is fully involved with the nature of the "other"tD > > files and thus is nothing on which VMS Development could provide
 > > guidance.  >  > VMS RMS support people  E I take it you mean ODS - RMS is a file structure, ODS is On-disk Data9 Structure, a level below RMS.e  * > I have talked with recommend a plain old >  > $ INIT disk: label > , > esp. for system disks, use the VMS and RMS  $ Here again, you mean ODS, not RMS...   > defaults, and then do an >  > $ BACKUP/IMAGE/NOINIT  >  > and leave HIGHWATER enabledg  F Not generally recommended, except where security requirements mandate.  - > ... works fine for every size system disk Il: > have ever used, which has been 2,4,9 and now 18 gb's ...  C Try NOHIGHWATER and see if you notice any performance improvements.k   --   David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:41:58 GMTn1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsM' Message-ID: <3D277666.129EE1B4@fsi.net>n   JF Mezei wrote:c > 9 > If you get a empty system disk you have just FORMATTED,L  @ Although certain MicroVAXes have such utilities in their consoleG firmware, I'm not aware of any generally available OpenVMS software fornC formatting disks (only the low-level format is required, except forM
 floppies).   > how does one go aboutsK > loading *VAX* VMS on it and still provide your own parameters, especially 0 > cluster size which can't be changed later on ?  E INIT (UN*X equiv. = mkfs) the disk first (if possible, this option isgA not always avaiable, can be done later on in a more time-consumin E process outlined by another respondent). Then, restore using /NOINIT.eH Certain parameters will still be changed (volume label for one), but the  important ones will be retained.  P > When you BACKUP/IMAGE or the B saveset , won't backup do the Init with its own > parameters ?   Not if you use /NOINIT.   O > I realise that on alpha, you can boot from CD and then do the INIT from thereb& > and then backup/noinit. But on VAX ?  F Starting with V6.2 (and maybe V6.1, dunno for sure), you can boot fromA root 1 (BOOT/1 or BOOT/R5:1) of the OpenVMS-VAX CD and get to thetC "minimal" VMS environment instead of SABKUP. You can't install fromeE there, but you can INIT your disks, if necessary, check device names,h! etc., just like you can on Alpha.U   -- t David J. Dachtera3 dba DJE Systemsh http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 00:11:40 GMTe0 From: John Santos <john.santos@post.harvard.edu>A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationso> Message-ID: <MPG.1791511378310ffe9896b2@news.bellatlantic.net>  E In article <3D277666.129EE1B4@fsi.net>, djesys.nospam@fsi.net says...a > JF Mezei wrote:  > > ; > > If you get a empty system disk you have just FORMATTED,n > B > Although certain MicroVAXes have such utilities in their consoleI > firmware, I'm not aware of any generally available OpenVMS software foreE > formatting disks (only the low-level format is required, except fors > floppies). >  > > how does one go aboutsM > > loading *VAX* VMS on it and still provide your own parameters, especiallyd2 > > cluster size which can't be changed later on ? > G > INIT (UN*X equiv. = mkfs) the disk first (if possible, this option is C > not always avaiable, can be done later on in a more time-consumindG > process outlined by another respondent). Then, restore using /NOINIT.SJ > Certain parameters will still be changed (volume label for one), but the" > important ones will be retained. > R > > When you BACKUP/IMAGE or the B saveset , won't backup do the Init with its own > > parameters ? >  > Not if you use /NOINIT.  > Q > > I realise that on alpha, you can boot from CD and then do the INIT from there ( > > and then backup/noinit. But on VAX ? > H > Starting with V6.2 (and maybe V6.1, dunno for sure), you can boot fromC > root 1 (BOOT/1 or BOOT/R5:1) of the OpenVMS-VAX CD and get to thenE > "minimal" VMS environment instead of SABKUP. You can't install fromoM > there, but you can INIT your disks, if necessary, check d floppevice names,1# > etc., just like you can on Alpha.U  B If you are using an older version of VMS or don't have CD (TK50 orF 9-track, etc.), and have more than one disk, you can also do a minimalA install on one of the extra drives, boot that drive and use it to C init the future system disk with the desired cluster size, headers,rG etc.  Restore saveset .B (online should work, and will save you the 15 sA minutes or so needed to boot SABACKUP from TK50), using /NOINIT, hH shutdown and boot the new disk.  This should pick up in the installationB procedure from that point.  After the upgrade is finished, re-initE your scratch disk.  (Install SABACKUP on it, if you have room, and it F might save you hours in the future, if you are dealing with old, tiredH disk drives and occasionally lose one.  Nothing like multiple TK50 bootsF to while away those long winter nights, except multiple SABACKUP bootsF from floppies on a 780.  (Only did a 750 once, I think I went to lunch while it was booting...)   -- u John   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2002 14:11:37 -0700 " From: cstranslations@msn.com (Joe)4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)= Message-ID: <d56d1c2d.0207061311.2fb9ed9d@posting.google.com>c  h David Harrold <DHarrold@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<uj66iughepfvhtopahvkhmbkq5ketm72tn@4ax.com>...H > On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:35:26 GMT, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > I > >North Broward Hospital District Adds HP AlphaServer Systems to Support  > >Paperless Records SystemeO > >http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APSGc.hayTm9i > >ydGgg > >eL > >It would be nice to know if this was a *new* win or just an upgrade of an > >existing installation.e > >s > O > I'm guessing here, but I've talked to the admins at North Broward a couple ofeL > times about their systems.  So, it is an upgrade of an existing Cerner/VMS# > system, not a new implementation.   E What do they "do?" A lot of "in house" development? Just run a "bunchrF of 3rd party apps?" I spent 6 years workin in the I.S. department of a= hospital in the central part of New Jersey. We did just aboutiE everything (accounting, payroll, GL, you name it) "in house" (well itwD was code that was purchased and we supported). On the other hand theA lab system (Sunquest/OpenVMS) sat in the corner and we never "didt< anything" on it (other than a reboot every 18 months or so).  A Then we went through a merger. The cluster of 6000s bacame rather F passe. Staff at the hospital I was associated with spent most of theirD time asking, "why can't the new systems do what our old system did?"? (lotta M$ stuff). The new lab system went Sunquest/Tru64 on twolA 4100s... I'm out in the fine southwest for the last 4 years or so D (reasons other than the merger). Haven't talked to my old boss for a5 while so I'm not sure what's going on back there now.n  A After all the rambling... the point that I wanted to make is thatwD unless there are perminate (programming) jobs created in associationE with the OpenVMS system - a nice new shinny Cerner/OpenVMS lab system F is nice but doesn't do as much as one would like in advancing OpenVMS.   Joe   a > Dave Harrold >  > P > ..............................................................................P > David Harrold                              E-Mail: David_Harrold at aurora.orgK > Sr. Software Systems Engineer              Phone:          (414) 647-6204 K >                                            Pager:          (414) 941-4634dI > Aurora Health Care                         Fax:          (414) 647-4999  > 3031 W. Montana Street > Milwaukee, WI 53215r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:09:17 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)G Message-ID: <xhOV8.7281$b8O1.5256@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messageo* news:ag6bdm$cpt$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk... >r >tB > [*] Rumours are of precisely one big sale - to a Federal quango.      D Some federal departments/agencies buy at least one of everything. SoE Intel/HP will announce on Monday that they have sold maybe 5 systems.   L Can't help but think back to June 25, 2001 - Capellas is so stupid, he makes) George W. Bush look positively brilliant.t   ------------------------------  * Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 21:26:07 +0000 (UTC)/ From: "Dan Williams" <dan.williams@btclick.com>  Subject: Vms documentation1 Message-ID: <ag7n9f$ct9$1@knossos.btinternet.com>.  G Does anyone know another place I can download the vms  7.2 installationh0 manual for vax, It seems the compaq site is down     Thanks Danl   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2002 17:28:56 -0600t- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: Re: Vms documentation3 Message-ID: <ScViolc5XB3R@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  c In article <ag7n9f$ct9$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, "Dan Williams" <dan.williams@btclick.com> writes: I > Does anyone know another place I can download the vms  7.2 installation 2 > manual for vax, It seems the compaq site is down  7 It should be on the discs that came with your software.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 20:02:09 -0400. From: "warren sander" <sander@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: Re: Vms documentation+ Message-ID: <ag80f8$q92$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   % try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc5     --B ------------------------------------------------------------------9 Warren Sander                           OpenVMS MarketingtB Hewlett-Packard Company         Work:  warren.sander@remove.hp.comG 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1     Personal: sander@remove.ma.ultranet.comn3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875t5    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myselfn,          Read http://www.openvms.compaq.com/B ------------------------------------------------------------------  : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:ScViolc5XB3R@eisner.encompasserve.org...eB > In article <ag7n9f$ct9$1@knossos.btinternet.com>, "Dan Williams"" <dan.williams@btclick.com> writes:K > > Does anyone know another place I can download the vms  7.2 installationl4 > > manual for vax, It seems the compaq site is down > 9 > It should be on the discs that came with your software.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:24:19 GMT51 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>mQ Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal ' Message-ID: <3D277246.327557CC@fsi.net>e   Brian Tillman wrote: > ( > >That shark is art by Sorayama Hajime. > M > Seems to me, then, that using it (or making a copy of it) is a violation of  > copyright laws.f  C I should think it rather depends on who owns the copyright and whatMG rights are reserved by the copyright holder, as opposed to who authoredt it.P   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE SystemsT http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/I   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 10:22:27 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)' Subject: Re: Where to put startup stuffBJ Message-ID: <rdeininger-0607021022270001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>  5 In article <3D267BD8.59B274D4@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:d  N >It used to be that a site would put all the startup stuff in SYSTARTUP_V5.COM >eO >So, when you inherited a system, a good study of that file would give a singleoM >point to follow what went on during system boot, including what software wasi6 >started up, what logicals were being defined etc etc. >eC >But then came that SYSMAN and its STARTUP phases thing, as well as 1 >SYLOGICALS.COM and probably other files as well.x  J There's detailed documentation about startup stuff in the System Manager's Manual.  It's worth a read.O    O >Am I being too conservative in sticking to SYSTARTUP_VMS and avoiding the restp >? a  J I'd say stick to it until/unless it becomes too complex for comfort.  Some% reasons NOT to use SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM:m  ' 1. You need something to start earlier.fH 2. You want an installer to fix up a product start automatically.  (It's? easier to modify the startup database under SYSMAN control thanm& automatically edit SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.)J 3. You have a complex environment with multiple system disks and a mixture5 of cluster-wide and node-specific stuff to start up. .  I Multiple system disks require multiple copies of SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  EachoD disk can have a stub that calls a single, common file that all nodes share.  H Node-specific startup can be done via conditional code in SYSTARTUP_VMS,E but it might be easier to manage via SYSMAN and the startup database.   K >When you inherit a new system, is there a comprehensive list of files (not.O >called by SYSTARTUP_VMS) to look it where the former system manager would haveN >added customizations ?p  B The comprehensive list is everything in the startup database, plusE everything those files call, plus perhaps stuff lurking in auto-starth< batch queues.  And I expect I've missed a few possibilities.  I Most things in the startup database don't lead to user-modifiable files. gI IIRC, there are about 6 VMS command files used at startup that the system J manager is invited to modify.  The System Manager's Manual describes them.  E SIPs and layered products (networking, DECwindows, ...) often involveF additional startup files.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:25:50 GMTr1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e Subject: Re: wow' Message-ID: <3D2772A2.40E76664@fsi.net>l   Greg Cagle wrote:e >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Greg Cagle wrote:x > >l
 > >>[snip]J > >>And there is also the "Strategic Management Roundtable" at HP World in > >>September. > >. > >tI > > Are you suggesting that we may be able to submit some input that willn > > have a noticeable impact?y > >/ > F > Not necessarily - just calling attention to the forum as a potential. > means of input to upper level HP management.  H True enough - best not to miss an opportunity so long as there's so much as a hint of a chance...   -- D David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.370 ************************V), but I 	 > > wouldtJ > > still like to know what my delivered 4.1GB SCSI system disk was INITed	 > > with, ! > > if only as a starting place.?  > >r	 > > -Norm  > >a > >t > >n= > > Please respond to Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)e > >m  > > @7    A7    B7    C7    D7    E7    F7    G7    H7    I7    J7    K7    L7    M7    N7    O7    P7    Q7    R7    S7    T7    U7    V7    W7    X7    Y7    Z7    [7    \7    ]7    ^7    _7    `7    a7    b7    c7    d7    e7    f7    g7    h7    i7    j7    k7    l7    m7    n7    o7    p7    q7    r7    s7    t7    u7    v7    w7    x7    y7    z7    {7    |7    }7    ~7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    7    