1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 08 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 372       Contents: Re: 500 bytes long parameter! Re: Advice on SCSI options sought  Affordable Page Updated  RE: Affordable Page Updated 8 Re: Bios Password reset for DEC3000/400 and/or VS4000/90= Re: Does any one know of shopping cart software for OpenVMS ? + Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' ! = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.  Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist # Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist # Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist # Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist + Re: Importing Eudora mail into CSWB/Mozilla 3 Re: Need info on disk size options for DEC-3000/700 + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) & Re: Suggestion for FAB: virtual memory8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations+ Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) H Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 17:58:25 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> % Subject: Re: 500 bytes long parameter 2 Message-ID: <3D28B981.3DF9E749@firstdbasource.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Goran Domazet wrote: > > G > > Is there a way to use 500 bytes long parameter in VMS (limit is 256  > > bytes, right?).  > > H > > I need to execute Unix command via rsh (its VMS equivalent), and the1 > > parameter it expects is about 500 bytes long.  > I > First guess time says no, but in practice it may actually work. You may C > need to do some discovery through trial and error, unless you are 8 > prepared to detail your project here in the newsgroup. >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   D These days, rather than using rsh or something of that sort, I wouldF prefer to use a SSL Https password-protected access where I know I canC pass extremely large data streams.  I have recently tested CGI code F (using a DECC executable) that was capable of parsing 64K data streamsE and using that data to process additional data. PHP, Perl and C  will H all be able to parse and use these sizes of datastreams. The bottom lineH is that there are many ways to do it without subjecting yourself to rsh.  G Without knowing more details of this project, everything is conjecture.    --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile) ? Need a consultant?  I am currently available. Remote or Onsite.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:24:27 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)* Subject: Re: Advice on SCSI options soughtK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0707022124270001@1cust230.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   I In article <msV4+8JEH6$3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:   >In article ? <rdeininger-0607020952080001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, 4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: > M >> Since you have BA356 shelves already, you could give them wide personality I >> modules and run wide disks.  IIRC, this would also let you connect two K >> shelves to the KZPSA and run 14 drives on one bus -- if you need capcity  >> more than speed.  > , >Are you saying that wide disks are slower ?  * No, I didn't mean to give that impression.  9 >Or are you commenting on the possibility of contention ?   G Yes.  14 busy disks on 1 SCSI bus makes too much bus traffic.  At least  that's the folklore I've read.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:12:35 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>   Subject: Affordable Page Updated' Message-ID: <3D28F947.84F994C5@fsi.net>   A The "Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page" has been updated to  reflect VMS's new ownership.  F I consider this an interim update since I don't currently know what HPH will be calling their ISV program (DEC had A.S.A.P., Q had C.S.A.). Once0 that info. comes my way, I'll update this again.  ? Denizens of HP: please bring this page to the attention of your ) management. The link is in my sig., below    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:40:37 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: RE: Affordable Page Updated9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIKEOOFEAA.tom@kednos.com>   ) It is DSPP, got the following mail 17-JUN   	 Dear Tom;   L Welcome to the new HP. It is my pleasure to introduce you to Nigel Ball, whoD is the Vice President and General Manager of the Enterprise SolutionJ Partners organization. Pleas e follow the enclosed link to hear first-handA from Nigel about his goals and vision for partners in the new HP.   K As we previously communicated, Compaq Solutions Alliance will be integrated J into the Developer and Solution Partners Po rtal, with a target completion date of November 1st.   K To familiarize you with the offerings in the new HP, weve created a series L of self-paced 15-minute modules. Just log into the members site and click onI the Merger banner to get to the Partnering with the New HP Webcast Series D for a link to the modules which include information on AlphaServers,E Industry Standard Servers, NonStop Series, 9000 Servers and HP-UX and 	 OpenView.   K We look forward to our continued partnership with you - should you have any G questions, please do not hesitate to contact the Program Center in your L location. Frequently asked questions about the HP/Compaq merger can be found< on the CSA Members site by cl icking on the "Merger" banner.       Carl Ramsey      >-----Original Message----- 7 >From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@fsi.net] $ >Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 7:13 PM >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! >Subject: Affordable Page Updated  >  > B >The "Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page" has been updated to >reflect VMS's new ownership.  > G >I consider this an interim update since I don't currently know what HP I >will be calling their ISV program (DEC had A.S.A.P., Q had C.S.A.). Once 1 >that info. comes my way, I'll update this again.  > @ >Denizens of HP: please bring this page to the attention of your* >management. The link is in my sig., below >  >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/  > ) >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:   >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >  >---' >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. ; >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). A >Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002  >  --- & Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:58:59 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)A Subject: Re: Bios Password reset for DEC3000/400 and/or VS4000/90 K Message-ID: <rdeininger-0707022158590001@1cust230.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   N In article <ag2ad7$qdm$1@bob.news.rcn.net>, "me" <wicklinedd@erols.com> wrote:  L >Actually I was just wanting to prevent someone from accidently enabling it,I >(security nazi's I'm sure like to sound of enabling passwords even if it L >disables a machine).  It is not currently enabled, but when I select to set6 >the Password I don't know the old so it always fails.    On DEC 3000-400/600/700 systems:  1 You can clear the password in nonvolatile memory.   E Since DEPOSIT is a privilged command, you need to either LOGIN (which F requires knowing the current password) or set the SECURE jumper to OFF (with the power off!).   Then,  >>> DEP -U -Q -N:1 1E0200088 0  J This clears the password and sets SECURE to OFF.  Now you can SET PASSWORDI without knowing the current password.  A variant of this command is given  in the  Owner's Guide.  3 IIRC, passwords must be exactly 16 characters long.   C If the SECURE jumper is OFF, you don't need the password to execute G privileged commands, and the SET SECURE ON command is illegal.  You can & set the password, but it won't matter.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 16:17:10 -0400 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> F Subject: Re: Does any one know of shopping cart software for OpenVMS ?1 Message-ID: <3D28A1C6.E23347A@firstdbasource.com>    John Smith wrote:  > @ > "Michael Austin" <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote in message. > news:3D279075.B28487C3@firstdbasource.com... > > J > > It would also be nice if there was an English interface for this site.4 > > (I did not find one and my French stinks... :) ) > >  > L > Not meaning to be glib, but just imagine how users in non-English speaking4 > countries feel and think about English-only sites. > N > I know all the arguments....'We don't sell enough in Sweden to make it worthK > our while to translate it into Swedish', or 'If we have to spend out time N > doing something, let's pour our effort into the product and let it speak forJ > itself rather than wasting time making a pretty web site in 13 differentL > languages'. Or maybe it's just one poor guy, who is the chief cook, bottleH > washer, waiter, bus boy, and hatcheck girl all rolled into one and who? > doesn't have time for anything except his/her first language.  > ( > Cultural imperialism is rather boring. > J > Since VMS is all things to all people, let's insist that all VMS-relatedE > sites be accessible only in Esperanto. :-)   No further translation  > required.   @ Although the majority of foreign business is done in English.  IE attended a training course in Germany approx 10 years ago now.  There G were 15 individuals and 8 different countries represented in the course = and the only common language to all participants was English.   G I asked the question because the President of the company mentioned his D product did what the original poster was looking for - who obviouslyD asked the question in English, it was answered in English, so it wasH assumed there would be an English page to view the product.  I have beenE somewhat resourceful in that I know that if you are not using IE when * trying to view some of the links you get:   E "Cette prsentation contient des lments susceptibles de ne pas tre G affichs dans votre navigateur. Cette prsentation a t optimise pour B des versions plus rcentes de Microsoft Internet Explorer. Si vous* voulez quand mme continuer, cliquez ici."   -or translated via Google-  D "This presentation contains elements likely not to be posted in yourG navigator.  This presentation was optimized for more recent versions of E Microsoft Internet To explore.  If you want nevertheless to continue,  click here."     --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163 7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:44:06 -04001 From: "Island (hpaq.net)" <dbturner@islandco.com> 4 Subject: Re: DS10L Feedback - more for the pickin' !/ Message-ID: <uihkfi1rp4gpae@news.supernews.com>   - DEPVZ-AA Permedia 2/SCSI/10/100 Ethernet $925   I They ain't cheap and, even though manufactured for Compaq by Intraserver, * are not available through any other source   David     = Gib Copeland <copeland@jenni.path.uiowa.edu> wrote in message - news:3D276DD1.2030807@jenni.path.uiowa.edu...  > Keith A. Lewis wrote: I > > Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com> writes in article B <3D25609D.BFB2B9AE@aaa.com> dated Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:02:21 +0200: > > 2 > >>What's the added cost for shipment to Sweden ?( > >>What whould an extra KZPBA-CA cost ? > >>B > >>One of thoses would nicely replace my DEC AXP 2000 modell 300,* > >>who is becoming more and more tired... > >  > > K > > You realize the DS10L, being designed for low profile, only takes 1 PCI J > > card.  You can't have both a SCSI card and a video card.  This isn't a4 > > problem for everybody, but you need to be aware. > > > > > IMHO a plain old DS10 would make a nicer hobbyist machine. > > / > > --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org B > > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer. >  > G > An option might be the 3X-DEPVZ-AA, Permedia P2 graphics, 10/100 NIC,  1-port USCSI5 > PCI combo adapter.  How much would that run, David?  >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2002 16:33:52 -0700 ( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)F Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207071533.62cb66f7@posting.google.com>    "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message news:<BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF4023D926C@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>...  > : > Why do you think IBM is promoting the "Linux Mainframe"? >   B because they have nothing else to promote ... OS400 is a nightmare to develop on or even run ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 19:12:22 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>( Subject: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist, Message-ID: <3D289294.3040800@spammotel.com>   Hi,   E I have a problem setting up DEC Windows on my hobbyist Alpha system,  B particularly the proper detection of the graphics device.  At the B hardware detection stage of bootup, the graphics card is properly H detected as a Cirrus Logic card, but just before the login prompt first , appears the following error message appears:  1 DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE, no graphics devices found   E I assume this has something to do with the fact I never ran the EISA  H configuration routines.  I'm not sure what they do exactly, but I can't D seem to mount and read the directory contents of the Hobbyist CD to ) search for them.  Here's what I'm trying:    $ show dev dka400:" $ MOUNT/MEDIA_FORMAT=CDROM DKA400: _Label: ALPHA072 _Log name: ALPHA072:2 %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, no CD-ROM volume descriptor foundF %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, Please mount volume ALPHA072 in device _HOBBY$DKA400:  : Any help with either problem would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks,    Alder    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 19:36:50 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>, Subject: Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist, Message-ID: <3D289851.2000108@spammotel.com>   Alder wrote: > Hi,  > G > I have a problem setting up DEC Windows on my hobbyist Alpha system,  D > particularly the proper detection of the graphics device.  At the D > hardware detection stage of bootup, the graphics card is properly J > detected as a Cirrus Logic card, but just before the login prompt first . > appears the following error message appears: > 3 > DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE, no graphics devices found  > G > I assume this has something to do with the fact I never ran the EISA  J > configuration routines.  I'm not sure what they do exactly, but I can't F > seem to mount and read the directory contents of the Hobbyist CD to + > search for them.  Here's what I'm trying:  >  > $ show dev dka400:$ > $ MOUNT/MEDIA_FORMAT=CDROM DKA400: > _Label: ALPHA072 > _Log name: ALPHA072:4 > %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, no CD-ROM volume descriptor foundH > %MOUNT-I-OPRQST, Please mount volume ALPHA072 in device _HOBBY$DKA400: > < > Any help with either problem would be greatly appreciated. > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Alder  >   H I hate replying to my own posts, but the MOUNTing of the Bobbyist CDROM G is no longer a question.  Dropping the /MEDIA_FORMAT qualifier did the nC trick.  No EISA config utility seems to be on the Bobbyist CD, but hG perhaps since this Cirrus Logic card is a PCI card I don't need to run w) the EISA config utility?  Still clueless.    Cheers,y Aldero   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2002 14:53:43 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)r, Subject: Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist3 Message-ID: <c784I3pfUJex@eisner.encompasserve.org>b  W In article <3D289851.2000108@spammotel.com>, Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:o  H >> I have a problem setting up DEC Windows on my hobbyist Alpha system, E >> particularly the proper detection of the graphics device.  At the 2E >> hardware detection stage of bootup, the graphics card is properly aK >> detected as a Cirrus Logic card, but just before the login prompt first V/ >> appears the following error message appears:s >> s4 >> DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE, no graphics devices found  / Are you certain that card is supported by VMS ?y   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:35:10 GMTl( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>, Subject: Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist, Message-ID: <3D28A5FD.7010805@spammotel.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:5  > In article <3D289851.2000108@spammotel.com>, Alder-'  > <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes:-  >  >A  >>> I have a problem setting up DEC Windows on my hobbyist AlphaiF  >>> system, particularly the proper detection of the graphics device.D  >>> At the hardware detection stage of bootup, the graphics card isB  >>> properly detected as a Cirrus Logic card, but just before theD  >>> login prompt first appears the following error message appears:  >>>6  >>> DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE, no graphics devices found  >>a  >2  > Are you certain that card is supported by VMS ?  B No, not certain, but am still trying to find the "master" hardwareE compatibility matrix.  In the meantime, here's what SHOW DEV returns:s   $ sho dev /full gq  J Device GQA0:, device type DECwindows output device, is offline, device setG      /NOAVAILABLE, record-oriented device, carriage control, shareable.l  =      Error count                    0    Operations completed         02      Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC [SYSTEM]1      Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot  S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLr<      Reference count                0    Default buffer size        0    E I suspect that NOAVAILABLE is VMS telling me that it does NOT supportp# this card, but I remain hopeful....    Cheers,l   Alder    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:36:33 -0500 ( From: Rich Jordan <duodec@speakeasy.net>4 Subject: Re: Importing Eudora mail into CSWB/Mozilla, Message-ID: <3D2908C1.2070003@speakeasy.net>   David J. Dachtera wrote: > Rich Jordan wrote: > . >>(That should have been CSW_B_ up top, sorry) >> >>Ken,A >>      I didn't even think of trying that.  Thanks for the idea!o >  > J > Please post your results. I use Eudora, also, and would be interested in > the details. >   ? Partial results, not totally successful.  When I transferred a  H moderately large mailbox (~350 messages), Mozilla didn't care if I left B it at 512-byte fixed or converted it to streamlf with CR carriage H control.  In either case, placing it in the mail directory caused a new H MSF file (equivalent to the TOC file in Eudora, apparently) to be built.  , In both cases, all the messages had entries H (subject/sender/date/priority) but some number of them had no 'bodies'; E that is when you select the message header, the preview window stays RD blank, and opening such a message gives a blank message body.  Also F noted that the occasional message body has "<x-flowed>" (sans quotes) G just before the first character of the actual message, but no apparent uE correlation between that and the blanks.  In Eudora, the messages do  E display properly.  Finally the odd message done in HTML for whatever g6 reason shows up in 'view source' mode (or equivalent).  I I haven't started to look at attachments yet; that will also be an issue hD since Eudora keeps attachments in a separate directory.  I have not D tried to transfer a mailbox with messages that have attachments yet.  F I picked streamlf with CR carriage control because thats what Mozilla E uses when it creates the .MSF files and the basic mailboxes (inbox., bG etc); I may try a convert to do the job next since using SET FILE/ATTR  H does not produce identical file header results (I don't think it should 4 matter, but then this is *nix software).  We'll see.   Rich Jordann   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 21:49:44 -0400a2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)< Subject: Re: Need info on disk size options for DEC-3000/700K Message-ID: <rdeininger-0707022149440001@1cust230.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>   ? In article <001101c225da$f8c82640$0a00a8c0@w2k>, "Ransom Fitch"- <rlfitch@peakpeak.com> wrote:2  - >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.s >m, >------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C225A8.AE2DB640 >Content-Type: text/plain; >        charset="us-ascii"   >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  J Please post (send) plain, unencoded text to this newsgroup (mailing list). Thanks.N  H >I need help in determining maximum SCSI disk size on a DEC 3000/700 andF >suggestions as to what disk(s) to consider using (brand, model, etc).I >The internal SCSI connectors (2) are '50 pin'.  I think that I'm limited I >to 2GB max but I'm hopeful that is not the case. I have an external SCSIt9 >port with 2GB drive attached. Any ideas are appreciated.   E The DEC 3000/700 has an on-board SCSI controller with 2 busses.  BothtI busses are the same - fast, narrow SCSI, with a console option to set then speed to slow.  A The internal bus has standard cabling for up to 3 SCSI devices -- + typically two disks and a CD or tape drive.   A The limiting factor is probably cooling.  IIRC, the largest drive,C qualified for use in the system was an RZ29 (4.3 GB).  RZ28 was thenI largest supported when the system was new.  Anything faster than 7200 RPMh2 should likely be mounted in an external enclosure.  D If you are running VMS V7.1 (with patches) or later, the system willE likely support any SCSI drive you can connect.  Certainly 9 and 18 GB # drives have been used successfully.   I If you want minimum aggravation, you could shop for (used) RZ28x and RZ29aD drives.  There won't be any guessing about 3rd-party disks that way.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 14:23:55 -0400T- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow), Message-ID: <3D288735.A5E3B0FF@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:wJ > A more aggressive "platinum forum" effort (aka To Boot Or Not To Reboot)! > The VMS Immersion class at ZK03  > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 > G > ago. Hence I would not bash HPQ for taking initial steps in the rights > direction.    L Press releases about new version of VMS has been made even under Digital andN Compaq. There is nothing new nor does it indicate a change towards a different handling of VMS.  J Secondtly, the "taking initial steps" was done by Carly ignoring VMS for 9N months, and Stallard issuing his famous memo stating he expected VMS custoemrs to migrate to HP-UX. g  L What HO is doing now is perhaps closer to damage control than anything else.K Now, if that attitude does last and HP staff stop making "industry standard N rill rule", "Windows will eviscerate..." type of comments and stard to includeJ VMS as part of HP's core product offerings, then that will signifiy a real change.   M There have been too many occasions where the owner of VMS has done "positive"nL stuff just enough and just long enough to shut the naysayers up for a while,= and then return to the "Windows will rule" a few weeks later.   K So far, this could either be another episode of "do just enough to shut theoL naysayers up" or it could be something deeper and more permanent. I wouldn't* bet my business on a permanent change yet.  J When Stallard issues yet another modification of his memo that removes allL references to migration from VMS to Unix and instead talks about wideing theK markets for VMS and growing the installed base, then I will start t take HPg0 seriously on its intentiosn with regards to VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 18:21:46 GMT * From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)? Message-ID: <_E%V8.8580$Im2.283804@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>e  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 news:CP_V8.313513$6m5.300592@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...o   ...x   > Post May 7 we have seen: >tJ > A more aggressive "platinum forum" effort (aka To Boot Or Not To Reboot) >m! > The VMS Immersion class at ZK03- >- > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 >1K > I haven't seen the new org chart, so I don't know what positions are helde byK > stealthy sorts, but IMHO things look a lot better than they did a year or3 soG > ago. Hence I would not bash HPQ for taking initial steps in the righti > direction.  E While no one is likely to want to bash HP for taking such steps, it's I entirely reasonable to bash them for the continuing lack of *substantive*s steps.  L Many of the "I want to BELIEVE" brigade here may agree with you that 'thingsL look a lot better than they did a year or so ago' (at least if you read thatK as 'a year or less ago', since nothing has happened that remotely begins to'H erase the negative effects of the 54-week-ago Alphacide).  But while the; activities you note above may change the perceptions of thenG already-converted, they do virtually nothing to change the level of VMSr? owner's actual commitment, since they effectively cost nothing.   L Question:  Exactly how do the activities you noted help VMS or its customersB or ensure in any way HP's commitment to VMS's future in any mannerH substantially different from the status quo ante?  Answer:  They don't -I they're not only purely cosmetic (i.e., near zero cost to HP), but mostlyaK (yet again, with the exception of the press releases) visible only to VMS'ss existing customer base.   I So while the fact that VMS is getting a non-zero amount of free attentionnB now from its owner might 'look' (your word, and a well chosen one)H encouraging, it will take far more substantive action before it actuallyK *is* encouraging.  If HP continues quickly with substantial *investment* ingK VMS's future (both in promotion and in sorely-needed development to address K those areas that keep VMS from competing more effectively with more popularsK OSs), then plaudits will indeed be in order - but if HP gets the credit forhH change *before* having taken such steps, it may feel (and quite rightly)K that those additional steps really aren't necessary - and VMS's future willsK not have been altered one bit, despite the temporarily-improved feelings ofp the existing customer base.h   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 15:13:57 -0400  From: GcE <gce@gce.com>e4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)& Message-ID: <3D2892F5.6030209@gce.com>   Ever cheerful here...NOT.a  O I find it nevertheless a bit encouraging that the press releases are willing toiO say good things about VMS in public and even make noise about there being areaseJ VMS is superlatively good at. That is one of the sine qua non actions thatO is needed. Not the only one, but an important bit: shows that such language fornM the OS is not being suppressed. Longer term, some money in marketing needs to R follow, since press releases are after all freebies. Still public demonstration ofJ the guts to say that a non-unix, non-MS OS is superlative in some areas is" a good start.May it continue long.     Bill Todd wrote:> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message; > news:CP_V8.313513$6m5.300592@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...m >  > ...- >  >  >>Post May 7 we have seen: >>J >>A more aggressive "platinum forum" effort (aka To Boot Or Not To Reboot) >>! >>The VMS Immersion class at ZK03  >> >>Press coverage on VMS V7.3 >>K >>I haven't seen the new org chart, so I don't know what positions are helda >  > by > K >>stealthy sorts, but IMHO things look a lot better than they did a year ora >  > so > G >>ago. Hence I would not bash HPQ for taking initial steps in the right  >>direction. >  > G > While no one is likely to want to bash HP for taking such steps, it'sAK > entirely reasonable to bash them for the continuing lack of *substantive*l > steps. > N > Many of the "I want to BELIEVE" brigade here may agree with you that 'thingsN > look a lot better than they did a year or so ago' (at least if you read thatM > as 'a year or less ago', since nothing has happened that remotely begins tonJ > erase the negative effects of the 54-week-ago Alphacide).  But while the= > activities you note above may change the perceptions of therI > already-converted, they do virtually nothing to change the level of VMS A > owner's actual commitment, since they effectively cost nothing.1 > N > Question:  Exactly how do the activities you noted help VMS or its customersD > or ensure in any way HP's commitment to VMS's future in any mannerJ > substantially different from the status quo ante?  Answer:  They don't -K > they're not only purely cosmetic (i.e., near zero cost to HP), but mostlyfM > (yet again, with the exception of the press releases) visible only to VMS'sw > existing customer base.A > K > So while the fact that VMS is getting a non-zero amount of free attention D > now from its owner might 'look' (your word, and a well chosen one)J > encouraging, it will take far more substantive action before it actuallyM > *is* encouraging.  If HP continues quickly with substantial *investment* in M > VMS's future (both in promotion and in sorely-needed development to address-M > those areas that keep VMS from competing more effectively with more popular M > OSs), then plaudits will indeed be in order - but if HP gets the credit foreJ > change *before* having taken such steps, it may feel (and quite rightly)M > that those additional steps really aren't necessary - and VMS's future willpM > not have been altered one bit, despite the temporarily-improved feelings ofE > the existing customer base.  >  > - bill >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2002 16:42:34 -0700n( From: bob@instantwhip.com (Bob Ceculski)4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)= Message-ID: <d7791aa1.0207071542.308bc4a6@posting.google.com>r  q "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message news:<_E%V8.8580$Im2.283804@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com>...R > G > While no one is likely to want to bash HP for taking such steps, it'sAK > entirely reasonable to bash them for the continuing lack of *substantive*a > steps. > N > Many of the "I want to BELIEVE" brigade here may agree with you that 'thingsN > look a lot better than they did a year or so ago' (at least if you read thatM > as 'a year or less ago', since nothing has happened that remotely begins toeJ > erase the negative effects of the 54-week-ago Alphacide).  But while the= > activities you note above may change the perceptions of thegI > already-converted, they do virtually nothing to change the level of VMSsA > owner's actual commitment, since they effectively cost nothing.o > N > Question:  Exactly how do the activities you noted help VMS or its customersD > or ensure in any way HP's commitment to VMS's future in any mannerJ > substantially different from the status quo ante?  Answer:  They don't -K > they're not only purely cosmetic (i.e., near zero cost to HP), but mostly M > (yet again, with the exception of the press releases) visible only to VMS'sw > existing customer base.h > K > So while the fact that VMS is getting a non-zero amount of free attentionnD > now from its owner might 'look' (your word, and a well chosen one)J > encouraging, it will take far more substantive action before it actuallyM > *is* encouraging.  If HP continues quickly with substantial *investment* in M > VMS's future (both in promotion and in sorely-needed development to addressbM > those areas that keep VMS from competing more effectively with more populardM > OSs), then plaudits will indeed be in order - but if HP gets the credit foreJ > change *before* having taken such steps, it may feel (and quite rightly)M > that those additional steps really aren't necessary - and VMS's future will-M > not have been altered one bit, despite the temporarily-improved feelings ofL > the existing customer base.H >  > - bill  D look Bill, you can't force someone to use a superior product if they@ don't want to ... everyone who understands the power of VMS willA use it ... and along the way you will pick up a few converts, butoF everyone else who has the "I want something for nothing" attitude willB always follow the crowd ... so forget massive marketing campaigns,G because they don't work for those who don't understand computers, os's, F security, clustering, TCO, or who plain just don't care, esp. if CEO'sF are now going to play Computer genius like Capellas and put on the CIOC cap ... these companies will end up like Enron and Worldcom as they- drive them into the ground ...   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:00:15 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>g4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)' Message-ID: <3D28F665.F5F0A290@fsi.net>0   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:< > > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D2878F3.72C6A83B@fsi.net...  > > "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:l > > >rI > > > I don't think Bob was in charge of marketing pre-merger. It's a bite
 > early to/ > > > paint Mr. Blatz with the "stealth" brush.  > >sK > > True, but even he cannot change the "habits of a lifetime" "overnight".nH > > Some of his people have been practicing stealth "forever". ExpectingL > > them to be "at home" in more overt efforts on the first try is perhaps a$ > > bit, shall we say, "aggressive". > >d >  > Post May 7 we have seen: > J > A more aggressive "platinum forum" effort (aka To Boot Or Not To Reboot) > ! > The VMS Immersion class at ZK03n >  > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 > N > I haven't seen the new org chart, so I don't know what positions are held byN > stealthy sorts, but IMHO things look a lot better than they did a year or soG > ago. Hence I would not bash HPQ for taking initial steps in the righte > direction.  G Well, I'm not "bashing" them, but I'm not being overly optimistic until G I see them develop a track record of such efforts (as opposed to a lackL	 of same).   H Rather like Titanic trying to avoid the iceberg: a ship that big doesn'tH change direction in an instant. Momentum can work against you as greatly as it can work for you.r   -- h David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsc http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 02:04:01 GMTW1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>e4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)' Message-ID: <3D28F749.F8B2C531@fsi.net>a  
 GcE wrote: > [snip] > Still public demonstration of L > the guts to say that a non-unix, non-MS OS is superlative in some areas is > a good start.0  E Very true: baby steps forward are better than no steps or better thanr steps backwards.   > May it continue long..   I'll drink to that!n   --   David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:32:39 -0400n( From: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow), Message-ID: <3D28F9C7.8060901@tsoft-inc.com>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:e  > > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D2878F3.72C6A83B@fsi.net...  >  >>"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:l >>F >>>I don't think Bob was in charge of marketing pre-merger. It's a bit >>>y
 > early to > , >>>paint Mr. Blatz with the "stealth" brush. >>>sI >>True, but even he cannot change the "habits of a lifetime" "overnight".aF >>Some of his people have been practicing stealth "forever". ExpectingJ >>them to be "at home" in more overt efforts on the first try is perhaps a" >>bit, shall we say, "aggressive".  O Let's not forget that there 'MAY' have been some people who weren't happy with e@ past actions, and were just waiting for a chance to 'cut loose'.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 22:01:59 -0400s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)/ Subject: Re: Suggestion for FAB: virtual memoryoK Message-ID: <rdeininger-0707022201590001@1cust230.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>e  F In article <20020706125046.69392.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>, Fabio) Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:k  4 >I just would like an Autogen which works integrated. >to Oracle RDB parameters .... we changed the - >Global Buffers and researched to change some87 >PQL_ parameters to SYSGEN.Was a pain. And why OVMS 7.3 4 >enters wikth XFC allocating 6GB of my 12 GB RAM????  I I dunno how the cache size is determined -- but you do know that you must G disable XFC by setting VCC_FLAGS to 1, right?  It isn't safe to use XFC  until the ECO is released.  F I believe XFC will give up some of its memory if other stuff needs it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 15:29:45 -0400k From: GcE <gce@gce.com>aA Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsI& Message-ID: <3D2896A9.2050205@gce.com>  L Using the free Frag Avoider available on sigtapes and here and there, I alsoP avoid most of the issues with thrashing for space. I have noticed a much larger P effect (on my 30GB, 80GB, and 120GB disks) if indexf.sys gets too large. DefaultT init seems to have set it to over 2,000,000 blocks on one of the disks and that DOESR cause much slower mount/dismount and vastly slower rebuild (on the thankfully rareS occasions when neeed). I've been using cluster 12 on the 120gb disk, cluster factorsQ 4 on the 80GB, and 1 on the 30GB. Part of my reluctance to use smaller factors oneT the larger disks was reluctance to tie up memory for the bitmaps. However, in normalR operation these large disks run basically just as well as other smaller disks with default cluster factors... Glenn Everhart   Paul Repacholi wrote:h) > paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes:  >  >  >>Paul Repacholi wrote:o >  > ! >>>norm.raphael@metso.com writes:e >> > : >>>>I am about to migrate from a 4.1GB SCSI system disk to> >>>>an 18GB SAN-based system disk (with OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-2). >>>  >>>... >>>e >>>p >>>>* for   /CLUSTER_SIZE: >>>: >>>... >>>pF >>>>[I would guess that keeping 9 is reasonable, but that is a guess.] >>>T > H >>>It would be OK. Beware of small values on big disks, allocation times! >>>can take a long lunch-break :(m >> > - >>Why?? (A big question, not an interjection)  >  > C > I will re-phrase this. Beware of CFs that are very low, like 1 or D > possibley 2. Bigger the disk, I suspect the higher the critical CFG > gets. Or to put it another way, I think once the BITMAP.SYS goes over A > some magic size, the system is prone to long rumages through ita > looking for space. > H > Possible causes off the top of my head; having to read in and allocateE > from many BM blocks to get the space, and having that number exceed E > what the XQP can cache, possibly some negative interaction with theoE > EXTcache, so it does not work well, having all the members flushingr6 > the EXTcaches prematurly and lock thrashing from it. >  > C >>I have only 9GB disks at present, the default cluster size is 18.tE >>On the system disk I have left the default, but changed all my usersB >>disks to 9.  This seemed a reasonable average size for the files >>created by users.h >  > C >>I am buying replacement disks of 36Gb, and was intending to use aa= >>similar philosohy ... leave system default at whatever, buto2 >>initialise user disks again with 9 cluster size. >  >    > @ >>On your comment, is 9 too small and what will be the effect on >>users? >  > G > Well, the good news is, as the XQP runs in process context, it is therE > users who pay, not the system as it tends to be on the system disk.aE > That's also the bad news I guess. I am guessing that 9 would be OK,I? > and that 1 or 2 would suck. Just a guess though, feel free tot > experiment and let us know :)- >  - > D >>Note also that many of our applications have an expectation of theD >>file size, so open files with a reasonable initial blocksize and a >>similar extension size.8 >  > F > Good move! Tiny CFs can result in a delay while the system finds theC > requested number of blocks. My experience is that it can massivlyn' > cut the degree of file fragmentation.e >  t > F >>Many files created by the users are <9 blocks, including things like >>NETSERVER.LOG. >  > C > And they pile up by the gazillion :( and are not even usefull forn/ > plugging all those little bits of free space.s >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2002 20:14:47 GMTn( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)0 Message-ID: <aga7fn$gpd$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  / In article <BJXV8.260033$nZ3.118396@rwcrnsc53>,r0 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:/ >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageBB >news:xhOV8.7281$b8O1.5256@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...8 >> "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message- >> news:ag6bdm$cpt$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...s >> >E >> > [*] Rumours are of precisely one big sale - to a Federal quango.- >>G >> Some federal departments/agencies buy at least one of everything. SoeH >> Intel/HP will announce on Monday that they have sold maybe 5 systems. >vJ >SKHPC subscribers have known for several months that the US Department ofI >Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory bought at least 100 timeso3 >that many systems for one of their supercomputers.u  B It could well have been you that was the source of the information* to the place where I saw the reference :-)  C A single big sale to a Federal quango proves nothing about customerhC interest, as the decision to buy could well be political.  We shallgB have to see what happens with the McKinley - and, no, I don't know how real customers will react.     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679i   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 20:25:08 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>r4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg). Message-ID: <Es1W8.444525$cQ3.32404@sccrnsc01>  5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message * news:aga7fn$gpd$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...1 > In article <BJXV8.260033$nZ3.118396@rwcrnsc53>,e2 > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:1 > >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messageoD > >news:xhOV8.7281$b8O1.5256@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...: > >> "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message/ > >> news:ag6bdm$cpt$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...e > >> >G > >> > [*] Rumours are of precisely one big sale - to a Federal quango.e > >>I > >> Some federal departments/agencies buy at least one of everything. SoiJ > >> Intel/HP will announce on Monday that they have sold maybe 5 systems. > >rL > >SKHPC subscribers have known for several months that the US Department ofK > >Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory bought at least 100 times 5 > >that many systems for one of their supercomputers.i >nD > It could well have been you that was the source of the information, > to the place where I saw the reference :-) >nE > A single big sale to a Federal quango proves nothing about customeroE > interest, as the decision to buy could well be political.  We shallaD > have to see what happens with the McKinley - and, no, I don't know  > how real customers will react.  K Nor do I. (And if I did, I'd be clairvoyant and I wouldn't have to work forrI a living). But the info I've seen, and the unverified info Mike Magee has>K posted on his Inquirer site, leads me to believe that McKinley will exhibitd8 a substantial improvement over Itanic I. Time will tell.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 01:54:07 GMT 1 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net>i4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)' Message-ID: <3D28F4F7.1C1EF52C@fsi.net>H   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:A > 7 > "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messageo, > news:aga7fn$gpd$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...3 > > In article <BJXV8.260033$nZ3.118396@rwcrnsc53>,h4 > > Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote:3 > > >"John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message F > > >news:xhOV8.7281$b8O1.5256@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...< > > >> "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message1 > > >> news:ag6bdm$cpt$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...r > > >> >I > > >> > [*] Rumours are of precisely one big sale - to a Federal quango.o > > >>K > > >> Some federal departments/agencies buy at least one of everything. SosL > > >> Intel/HP will announce on Monday that they have sold maybe 5 systems. > > > N > > >SKHPC subscribers have known for several months that the US Department ofM > > >Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory bought at least 100 times 7 > > >that many systems for one of their supercomputers.t > >nF > > It could well have been you that was the source of the information. > > to the place where I saw the reference :-) > >VG > > A single big sale to a Federal quango proves nothing about customermG > > interest, as the decision to buy could well be political.  We shallkF > > have to see what happens with the McKinley - and, no, I don't know" > > how real customers will react. > M > Nor do I. (And if I did, I'd be clairvoyant and I wouldn't have to work forpK > a living). But the info I've seen, and the unverified info Mike Magee has M > posted on his Inquirer site, leads me to believe that McKinley will exhibite: > a substantial improvement over Itanic I. Time will tell.  F All Intel need do is get a chip working sufficiently error-free with aG fast IA32 mode and be able to build large quantities very quickly. That,; will at least give us something that we can "fight with" ing> negotiations. If the market gloms onto it, so much the better.   -- - David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems0 http://www.djesys.com/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 04:45:57 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)Q Subject: Re: VMS MARKETING VOLUNTEERS, LTD. Biz Card Example ( was Re: A Proposal ; Message-ID: <3d28fce5.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>o  0 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: > Martin Vorlaender wrote:4 > > David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@fsi.net) wrote: > > > Brian Tillman wrote:. > > > > >That shark is art by Sorayama Hajime. > > > >fF > > > > Seems to me, then, that using it (or making a copy of it) is a$ > > > > violation of copyright laws. > > >eI > > > I should think it rather depends on who owns the copyright and what M > > > rights are reserved by the copyright holder, as opposed to who authoredy	 > > > it.  > > L > > His official website http://www.sorayama.net/ suggests that he holds theJ > > copyrights for his all of his art, with a NY company involved somehow. >iI > That makes a suggestion regarding ownership. Is there any indication of . > rights reservations, grants, releases, etc.?  @ Information regarding original art, commissioned work, licensing) and any other project, please contact to:   % Email sorayama@imagingoz.com for info 2 or fax USA 1.212.252.9123      Tel:1.212.252.9122 / Artspace Company K&Y :  New York,  NY   USA    i  8 (Source: http://www.sorayama.net/rder_Form/Art/art.html)   cu,r"   Martin                           -- eB                         | Martin Vorlaender | VMS & WNT programmer1  OpenVMS: Where do you  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.desD  want to BE today?      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8                         | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.372 ************************