1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 08 Jul 2002	Volume 2002 : Issue 373       Contents:4 Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....????4 Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....???? Re: .scn files< Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ?< Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ?< Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ?< Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ?$ Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100! Re: Advice on SCSI options sought ! Re: Advice on SCSI options sought ' Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ... , Catching the mouse position under DECWindows0 Re: Catching the mouse position under DECWindows Re: Cost of $CONNECT/DISCONNECT  CSA -> DSPP = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. = RE: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. = Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. $ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...$ Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...# Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist  HP IPF announcement  Re: HP to fire 1500 in UK  Re: HP to fire 1500 in UK  Re: Lynx & SSL Re: Lynx & SSL Re: Lynx & SSL McKinley Cometh... Re: McKinley Cometh... RE: McKinley Cometh...# Memo:  Mysterious non-spinning disk = Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS = Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS = Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) + RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow) # OT: equipment available (possibly!)  Re: parsing >255 Re: parsing >255 Re: parsing >255 Re: Pascal Editor * Re: PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB - What's grabbing it??/ Re: Powerstorm 300/350 cards and OpenGL on OVMS   Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent  Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent Re: SMTP 8bit hack not working& Re: Suggestion for FAB: virtual memory Re: Suggestion for VMS FAQ8 Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendations% Thoughts on HP and VMS (nontechnical) ) Re: Thoughts on HP and VMS (nontechnical) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg) + Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)  Re: VMS 64bitness  Re: Where to put startup stuff Re: Where to put startup stuff Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS Re: wow   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:10:59 +0000 (UTC)- From: lewis@spyder.mitre.org (Keith A. Lewis) = Subject: Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....???? . Message-ID: <agc312$maq$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   tarunm_2000@yahoo.com (tmrana) writes in article <e8f11ce1.0207050226.6292502f@posting.google.com> dated 5 Jul 2002 03:26:41 -0700: G >An application tries to open file on vax5.5-2 , but on status check of D >that file ,its  returncode is 2 i.e %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER >00000002....????.  K Status code 2 doesn't mean much except "error".  The OS should probably not I be returning it.  What language is your app written in?  Can you post the L code that returns 2?  In C, file handles are often low integers, which would7 mean your open() is working (or at least thinks it is).   + --Keith Lewis              klewis$mitre.org > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:46:19 -0400; From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian@notnoone.notnohow.com> = Subject: Re: %NONAME-E-NOMSG ,MESSAGE NUMBER 00000002....???? $ Message-ID: <3d29d010$1@news.si.com>  D >Try to find where someone put in a command similar to "$set message$ >/noid/nofacility/noseverity/notext"  E This isn't a valid suggestion.  Specifying /NOxxxx in the SET MESSAGE ; command _eliminates_ that part of the error message.  Look:    $ exit 2( %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002 $ set message/nof  $ exit 2! %E-NOMSG, Message number 00000002  $ set mess/noi $ exit 2 %E, Message number 00000002  $ set mess/nos $ exit 2 Message number 00000002  $ set mess/not $ exit 2 $   G So, your notion that /NOFACILITY, for example, makes messages appear as  %NONAME is completely bogus. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Aerospace                          tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:56:09 +0530# From: "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com>  Subject: Re: .scn files / Message-ID: <uij13jg76dqa32@corp.supernews.com>   ! Finally found info in Scan files.   4 http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/wasd/runtime/conanhelp.html  L Also made a discovery...... we should not only bank on google to give us the best search results.  L there are some other search engines like lycos, altaviast which can give you# the right info in the first search.   
 All the best.  Vivek   : Clay M. Denton <denton@orison.dsserv.com> wrote in message2 news:5vieiu8etbrbtcdssbup8cjgvrvludepol@4ax.com...K > .SCN source code - VAX Scan language - compiler available on VMS Freeware  CD.  > I > On Fri, 5 Jul 2002 15:04:38 +0530, "Vivek Soni" <visoni@bmc.com> wrote:  >  > >Hi, > > L > >Encountered one more type of files (.SCN files). These were programmed in > >1988. > > G > >These file have Token sections,  Type section,  Declaration SECTION, ' > >PROCEDURE SECTION and MACRO Section.  > > E > >PROCEDURE SECTIONS contians the external declarations of functions  defined  > >in other .scn files.  > > K > >The functions defined in this file ( Called MACRO's here) are defined in  the  > >MACRO section.  > > 4 > >PROCEDURE PARSE( file_name: varying STRING(256)); > >DECLARE status  > >. > >. > >.4 > >These functions get called from the .C files like > >  > >parse(&argument); > > A > >Obviously the OpenVMS debugger cannot debug in to these files.  > > @ > >I need more info on these file.  Can anybody help me on this. > > 	 > >Thanks  > >Vivek > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 06:43:50 GMT & From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>E Subject: Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ? * Message-ID: <3D29332F.84E0C99F@compaq.com>   Simon,  < DCL ignores any RECALL command typed in a command procedure.K Giving it some thought, there is no reason RECALL/OUTPUT will not work from  command procedure.  J If you can escalate this through the support center to Engineering, I will
 get it fixed.    Regards,  	 Guy Peleg  OpenVMS DCL Engineering    Simon Clubley wrote:  I > How do I get access to the DCL recall buffer from a command procedure ?  > L > I want to be able to read the commands in the buffer, manipulate them, and2 > add any modified ones back to the recall buffer. > K > The obvious answer, RECALL/OUT and RECALL/IN, doesn't appear to work in a O > command procedure (which raises the question of how _do_ people automatically F > save and restore command history when logging out and logging in ?). >  > Thanks for any information,  >  > Simon. >  > --= > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP - > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:16:47 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au E Subject: Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ? 5 Message-ID: <01KJV33NS5IQ00092B@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Guy Peleg wrote:   >Simon,  > = >DCL ignores any RECALL command typed in a command procedure. L >Giving it some thought, there is no reason RECALL/OUTPUT will not work from >command procedure.  > K >If you can escalate this through the support center to Engineering, I will  >get it fixed. > 	 >Regards,  > 
 >Guy Peleg >OpenVMS DCL Engineering >  >Simon Clubley wrote:  > J >> How do I get access to the DCL recall buffer from a command procedure ? >>M >> I want to be able to read the commands in the buffer, manipulate them, and 3 >> add any modified ones back to the recall buffer.  >>L >> The obvious answer, RECALL/OUT and RECALL/IN, doesn't appear to work in aC >> command procedure (which raises the question of how _do_ people  
 automatically G >> save and restore command history when logging out and logging in ?).  >> >> Thanks for any information, >>	 >> Simon.  >> >> -- > >> Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP. >> Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.  L I would personally like it available in my login too.  On the various nodes N that I am on, I periodically go to SYS$LOGIN and generate my recall buffer to  a file.   K In my development area, I often use some longish DCL commands that I would   like to recall.   L On the odd occasions that I do log in, the first thing I try to remember to E do is RECALL/INPUT=NUMBAT (or GECKO, or whatever my local nodes are).   M I remember that Hoff once said that VMS Engineering considered use of RECALL  M in a .COM as a security risk.  I forget the details, but do they still apply?   L And since I cannot remember the details, are they still considered such and  with what ramifications?   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 06:25:11 -0600 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)E Subject: Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ? 3 Message-ID: <976nUIQTrLwa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   S In article <3D29332F.84E0C99F@compaq.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> writes:  > Simon, > > > DCL ignores any RECALL command typed in a command procedure.M > Giving it some thought, there is no reason RECALL/OUTPUT will not work from  > command procedure. > L > If you can escalate this through the support center to Engineering, I will > get it fixed.  >    Thanks.   I I've escalated it via the UK CSC and they will file it once their systems J come back online (Apparently, there was a software upgrade at the CSC this weekend...)    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       + Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:44:12 GMT & From: Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com>E Subject: Re: Accessing the DCL recall buffer in a command procedure ? * Message-ID: <3D29BFE8.351A39F8@compaq.com>   Never trust computers.....   Simon Clubley wrote:  U > In article <3D29332F.84E0C99F@compaq.com>, Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@compaq.com> writes: 
 > > Simon, > > @ > > DCL ignores any RECALL command typed in a command procedure.O > > Giving it some thought, there is no reason RECALL/OUTPUT will not work from  > > command procedure. > > N > > If you can escalate this through the support center to Engineering, I will > > get it fixed.  > >  > 	 > Thanks.  > K > I've escalated it via the UK CSC and they will file it once their systems L > come back online (Apparently, there was a software upgrade at the CSC this
 > weekend...)  >  > Simon. >  > --= > Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP - > Microsoft: The Lada of the computing world.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:53:26 GMT " From: Alfred Falk <falk@arc.ab.ca>- Subject: Re: Adding a SCSI to VAXstation 3100 9 Message-ID: <Xns92456EC86812Afalkarcabca@205.233.108.180>   5 "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.nospaam.com> wrote in + news:afv7br$jhq$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net:    9 > I have personally done this with my VaxStation 3100/30. = > To be successful, I make sure that no processes are active, 9 > particularly accessing a SCSI I/O device.  I would then < > carefully, but very quickly, remove the terminator, insert< > the new device, and replace the terminator.  Better if you; > have two terminators so as to elminate the last step.  Be 9 > cautioned that this doesn't always work, and the system  > could freeze up. >  > : > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:3D22BB7D.213F17BE@videotron.ca...E >> Silly question, but if I connect a new SCSI device on the external  >> SCSI  > portD >> of a vaxstation 3100, can I scan the scsi bus to see what sort of
 >> device  > itH >> is, its scsi ID etc from VMS without rebooting the machine, or must I/ >> absolutely go to the >>> prompt to do this ?  >>F >> If this can be done from vax-vms, what is the name of the utility ?   MCR SYSGEN AUTOCONFIGURE ALL   on Alpha, it's   MCR SYSMAN IO AUTOCONGURE    --  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------A   A L B E R T A         Alfred Falk               falk@arc.ab.ca  @ R E S E A R C H         Information Systems Dept   (780)450-5185+   C O U N C I L         250 Karl Clark Road 1                         Edmonton, Alberta, Canada  http://www.arc.ab.ca/   T6N 1E4   http://www.arc.ab.ca/staff/falk/   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 06:29:49 -0600 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) * Subject: Re: Advice on SCSI options sought3 Message-ID: <Mh5ZoIHfBwEy@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <rdeininger-0707022124270001@1cust230.tnt3.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:K > In article <msV4+8JEH6$3@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net  > (Larry Kilgallen) wrote: >  >>In articleA > <rdeininger-0607020952080001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, 6 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >>N >>> Since you have BA356 shelves already, you could give them wide personalityJ >>> modules and run wide disks.  IIRC, this would also let you connect twoL >>> shelves to the KZPSA and run 14 drives on one bus -- if you need capcity >>> more than speed.  : >>Or are you commenting on the possibility of contention ? > I > Yes.  14 busy disks on 1 SCSI bus makes too much bus traffic.  At least   > that's the folklore I've read.  D Not all applications with 14 disks on one bus would be using all theD disks at the same time.  I have fewer disks on my largest bus, but I< basically never use more than half the disks on any one day.   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Jul 2002 10:34:30 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>* Subject: Re: Advice on SCSI options sought- Message-ID: <87ptxzt0ax.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:    > In article <rdeininger-0607020952080001@1cust72.tnt2.nashua.nh.da.uu.net>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  > N > > Since you have BA356 shelves already, you could give them wide personalityJ > > modules and run wide disks.  IIRC, this would also let you connect twoL > > shelves to the KZPSA and run 14 drives on one bus -- if you need capcity > > more than speed.   - > Are you saying that wide disks are slower ?    : > Or are you commenting on the possibility of contention ?    > Or is it something else ?   = I think he is refering to 14 drives on one bus is slower than = 14 drives on 7 busses. 2 or 3 drives per string seems to be a = fundemental constant of the universe if you are after maximum  performance.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 12:53:25 GMTs1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)p0 Subject: Re: Andrew wan'ts the numbers, here ...+ Message-ID: <agc205$4as$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   - In article <87bs9nzvpv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>,s/  Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> writes:?6 |> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> tH |> > But if you don't put `GenUine COmpaq' simms into it will it in factA |> > be certified??  Wouldn't non-`GenUine COmpaq' anything cause G |> > problems getting maintenance if you have a problem later??  If so,N+ |> > then those prices are even more legit.v |> nI |> Ask the if they want the business or not. If not, then they know wherel |> the door is.   H Of course they want the business.  that's why they don't want you buying third party memory.n   |> pG |> It is a wonder how their attitude changes if they have walk from alliF |> that lovley income. (and explain up the food-chain why the comtract |> was not reneued.)  ) Reality must be really different in oz.  s   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   x   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 05:29:18 -0700t8 From: francois-xavier.jourdren@renault.com (FX Jourdren)5 Subject: Catching the mouse position under DECWindowse= Message-ID: <b6fb6b8a.0207080429.5b2c9bba@posting.google.com>e  B I try to catch the mouse position under DECWindows. By default, toA click and move the mouse is equivalent to a selection in order to(@ paste into the clipboard. But if you are into an EVE session (inB character cell mode), the editor is capable to catch the click andC locate the cursor where you are pointing. By pressing Ctrl+Y duringyD this session and then by clicking, I see that the mouse event is nowE an escape sequence and is not trapped anyway by the terminal emulator%? (I use eXcursion). When I leave EVE, the behaviour of the clicks returns as the default.%  F I can not see how it is possible to do that (by modifying the terminal6 characteristics, by calling an X function, and so on).   Thanks for any help.   FX Jourdren.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:39:49 GMTe5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>T9 Subject: Re: Catching the mouse position under DECWindowsE2 Message-ID: <VuhW8.20$go5.464991@news.cpqcorp.net>  L DECterm supports various mouse/button reporting modes (do a google search ofF something I put in here a month or two ago).  TPU enables the terminalE emulator mouse reports, which then causes DECterm to generate controluL sequences that it uses by default for some "simple" things.  You can turn itJ off by issuing the TPU SET (MOUSE,OFF) command, in which case DECterm will not handle the mouse events.        FX Jourdren wrote in message ...C >I try to catch the mouse position under DECWindows. By default, tosB >click and move the mouse is equivalent to a selection in order toA >paste into the clipboard. But if you are into an EVE session (in-C >character cell mode), the editor is capable to catch the click and D >locate the cursor where you are pointing. By pressing Ctrl+Y duringE >this session and then by clicking, I see that the mouse event is now-F >an escape sequence and is not trapped anyway by the terminal emulator@ >(I use eXcursion). When I leave EVE, the behaviour of the click >returns as the default. >-G >I can not see how it is possible to do that (by modifying the terminale7 >characteristics, by calling an X function, and so on).M >, >Thanks for any help.0 >.
 >FX Jourdren.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:32:02 GMTe? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)s( Subject: Re: Cost of $CONNECT/DISCONNECT0 Message-ID: <3d29a969.30739250@news.demon.co.uk>  D I'm not sure how much leaving all the streams set all the time wouldA affect you.  If you're opening with sharing set to allow multiplep? connections, then you're already picking up much of the locking D overhead.  You will use more memory from the extra buffers, but thatF may be a plus, rather than a minus.  You will also have some (probablyF small) overhead associated with searching longer buffer descriptors in
 the cache.  F On the other hand, $CONNECT is relatively cheap, but $DISCONNECT mightF be costly -- if you have DFW enabled, there may be writes that are now> forced.  If you don't, the cache entries it disposes of may be8 valuable to the streams you have left.  Or they may not.  F Personally, if leaving the streams always connected is simple for you,D I'd probably opt for that.  If it's complicated, I'd opt to $CONNECT
 on demand.  B On an easier question, RMS doesn't care about the RAB position, so> long as that RAB is not currently busy with an in-progress RMSF operation.  It might matter to any other user structures that you haveD pointing to it (including any XABs that you have hanging off the RABA -- which isn't very normal, I'll admit).  All RMS cares about foriF identifying a RAB to a stream is the RAB$L_ISI field.  So long as thatC is the same, you'll connect back to the correct record stream.  The-C same goes for the FAB and the FAB$L_IFI field.  In the FAB case, ofr@ course, there are a *lot* more user structures that could end up pointing to the FAB...  A And, yes, I do know of applications that only keep around the ISIw between operations./   Jim.  , On Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:05:05 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   O >An indexed file, accessed through a subsystem which i am writing, may have oneaM >or many streams. The software doesn't know in advance how many streams there 
 >might be. >y+ >I reckon that 5 streams would the the max.n >sN >I am debating between just creating the 5 RABs and $CONNECTing them once, andM >having more dynamic use of RABs, $CONNECTing a new one when all current onesuO >are busy and then $DISCONNECTing it when done. (for instance, one stream might J >be looping through each record in the file, and once done, that RAB is no >longer needed). >eJ >Looking at the doc, it seems that $CONNECT does result in internal blocksM >being allocated.  Is there much waste or impact in performance if I $CONNECTrN >more RABs than is needed, and some of the RABs remain unused ? Or am I better0 >$CONNECTing/$DISCONNECTing the RABs on demand ? >)N >Also, once a RAB has been $CONNECTed, can it be relocated or must its address >remain the same ?N >(for instance, if I grow an array of RABs and with a realloc, the location of >the array changes).   Jim Johnsone Software Exploration, Ltd.) (remove '.nospam' from the reply address)f   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:31:52 -0700# From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: CSA -> DSPP9 Message-ID: <CIEJLCMNHNNDLLOOGNJIEEPMFEAA.tom@kednos.com>e  B CSA is being replaced with Developer and Solution Partners Portal.F with a merger date of Nov 1.  Under the new peogram there is no longerA a fee for membership aas there was with CSA.  see www.hp.com/dsppo  G The application forms have pull down menus which have to be filled out,t) but under OS, e.g., VMS is not an option.   C Have any of you applied for membership yet?  Anyone from HP care tos comment? ---o& Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.: Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).@ Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/2002   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:22:02 +0100h% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>nF Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.8 Message-ID: <f6miiuo4rlakake7fo8p9k623brga0lqpr@4ax.com>  F On 6 Jul 02 11:18:07 +0200, p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) wrote:   > H >Mr McNair tried to explain the rationale behind the job losses, adding:D >"Neither Hewlett Packard or Compaq are producing money-making PCs." >cO >Wow. The VP of EMEA actually admitting that HP/CPQ aren't making money on PCs.i >wP >"An Executive [the Scottish Executive] spokesman said: "We regret the company'sI >decision. We understand, however, that it has come about partly due to acM >decision by Compaq-Hewlett Packard to focus on the high end, high value side.Q >of its business and is part of a much larger programme of job cuts worldwide andy. >throughout Europe, the Middle East and Asia." >hM >So HPQ are admitting that the high end, high value side of their business is J >worthy of focus. What a pleasant change from all the PC emphasis  we have >had to listen to!  5 But Alpha personnel are being made redundant as well!   M http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news/page.cfm?objectid=12007776&method=fullr  @ Compaq once employed 2500 workers in Ayr, Erskine and Inchinnan.  F After slashing 860 jobs in Erskine last year, the firm axed 75 jobs at  their Inchinnan repair facility.  F Then in February, Compaq announced they were selling their Ayr factory< to American contract electronics manufacturer Jabil Circuit.  D They kept on 240 staff and the remaining 430 were offered redundancy or transfer to Erskine.   B The latest jobs cuts are a second blow to the Ayr workers who haveA been travelling to Erskine each day since their factory was sold.   C The Compaq worker added: "They thought they had been spared and nowe% they're on the chopping board again."    >__I >Paul Sturei >Switzerland   -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:40:20 +0100eU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>sF Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.0 Message-ID: <agbml0$fs6$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > JF - >  > G >>>>Carly and friends were convinced "industry standard" would rule.<<<  >>>> > D > There is no question at all that Customers are demanding "industryF > standard" solutions - that is the whole reason why IBM, Sun, Oracle,G > Microsoft, PeopleSoft + a kazillion other companies are investigatingu > Web Services.  > F > While Web Services still as a fair ways to go, its biggest driver isD > that it will allow much better interoperability and integration of: > applications - both inside and external to the firewall. > J > Now, if you equate "industry standard" to x86 systems, then I agree with@ > you that they are certainly not going to "rule" anytime soon.  > H > However, I would suggest Customers want "industry standard solutions".E > Imho, what Customers are going to buy in the future are proprietaryrC > HW/OS platforms (security, availability and scalability) that run : > industry standard software layers on top of them for max# > interoperability and integration.c > : > Why do you think IBM is promoting the "Linux Mainframe"? >      No idea its a horrible concept.   9 Take an OS with very little commercial software available 8 for it but which has the benefit of being apparently low< cost (not actually true but hey) with the additional benefit2 of being available on an apparently cheap hardware7 platform. Port it to one of the most expensive hardware 7 platforms available and charge customers loads of moneys7 for the SW to support it. Use a different ABI to ensure<4 that most of the commercial apps available for Linux5 don't run on it and deliver a platform thats actuallyn7 slower than the cheap hardware platform most people useg< to host Linux and you have a value proposition made in hell.  ! But that is Linux on a mainframe.    Regardsu Andrew Harrisons   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:59:21 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auiF Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.5 Message-ID: <01KJV4LFSI3M00094Y@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Alan Greig wrote (snipped):   G >After slashing 860 jobs in Erskine last year, the firm axed 75 jobs at.! >their Inchinnan repair facility.c >uG >Then in February, Compaq announced they were selling their Ayr factory1= >to American contract electronics manufacturer Jabil Circuit.A >nE >They kept on 240 staff and the remaining 430 were offered redundancy2 >or transfer to Erskine. >rC >The latest jobs cuts are a second blow to the Ayr workers who haveaB >been travelling to Erskine each day since their factory was sold. >nD >The Compaq worker added: "They thought they had been spared and now& >they're on the chopping board again."    I It's nice to see that the Curly/Carly song and dance team care for their  M workers more than they do their own bonuses.  And after all, they're Compaq, o/ probably ex-DEC people, not our own HP workers.    Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:27:03 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>rF Subject: RE: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660802@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew -   Re: Linux mainframe ..  & >> No idea its a horrible concept. <<<  > Hey, I agree with you (someone mark this down somewhere...) !!  F However, one does need to give them credit. They have had some success> in sites that are tired of managing racks and racks of serversE distributed in different sites and/or their installed mainframe base.   D And for anyone that thinks the Linux mainframe is "open" technology,H check out this link and see if this fits your idea of "open" technology:4 (btw - z/VM is the OS running the Linux Mainframe..)  
 Reference:# http://www.vm.ibm.com/service/news/a   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660- Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyv7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20n Sent: July 8, 2002 5:40 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2F Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.         Main, Kerry wrote:   > JF - >=20 >=20G >>>>Carly and friends were convinced "industry standard" would rule.<<<n >>>> >=20G > There is no question at all that Customers are demanding "industry=20uI > standard" solutions - that is the whole reason why IBM, Sun, Oracle,=20iJ > Microsoft, PeopleSoft + a kazillion other companies are investigating=20 > Web Services.  >=20I > While Web Services still as a fair ways to go, its biggest driver is=20aG > that it will allow much better interoperability and integration of=20 : > applications - both inside and external to the firewall. >=20H > Now, if you equate "industry standard" to x86 systems, then I agree=20D > with you that they are certainly not going to "rule" anytime soon. >=20H > However, I would suggest Customers want "industry standard solutions".  H > Imho, what Customers are going to buy in the future are proprietary=20F > HW/OS platforms (security, availability and scalability) that run=20= > industry standard software layers on top of them for max=20c# > interoperability and integration.  >=20: > Why do you think IBM is promoting the "Linux Mainframe"? >=20     No idea its a horrible concept.t  9 Take an OS with very little commercial software availableu8 for it but which has the benefit of being apparently low< cost (not actually true but hey) with the additional benefit2 of being available on an apparently cheap hardwareA platform. Port it to one of the most expensive hardware platformseG available and charge customers loads of money for the SW to support it. H Use a different ABI to ensure that most of the commercial apps availableF for Linux don't run on it and deliver a platform thats actually slowerF than the cheap hardware platform most people use to host Linux and you& have a value proposition made in hell.  ! But that is Linux on a mainframe.n   Regardst Andrew Harrisoni   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:11:29 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>aF Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does.0 Message-ID: <agc30t$jvs$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  
 > Andrew - >  > Re: Linux mainframe .. >  > & >>>No idea its a horrible concept. <<< >>>2 > @ > Hey, I agree with you (someone mark this down somewhere...) !! > H > However, one does need to give them credit. They have had some success@ > in sites that are tired of managing racks and racks of serversG > distributed in different sites and/or their installed mainframe base.s >     > The only place I can think of where Linux on a mainframe would> be even worth thinking about is academia, give each CS student? their own Linux instance on an S390, not all of them are online ; at one time so the virtualisation won't be too horrible and < anyway they are students so who cares (joke) if they suffer.  ; Of course for the price of a Linux mainframe you could gived: 3 years of say a 130 student per year CS faculty their own; Netra X1 and never expect to get them back and still have a  lot of cash in the bank.    F > And for anyone that thinks the Linux mainframe is "open" technology,J > check out this link and see if this fits your idea of "open" technology:6 > (btw - z/VM is the OS running the Linux Mainframe..) >     : I know hance the you have to buy a whole load of SW to run+ some free SW in this case VM hosting Linux.o     > Reference:% > http://www.vm.ibm.com/service/news/n >  > :-)n > 	 > Regards# >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant- > Hewlett-Packard Canada# > Consulting & Integration Servicesr > Voice: 613-592-4660r > Fax   : 613-591-4477 > Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com >  >  > -----Original Message-----) > From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyt7 > [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com] e > Sent: July 8, 2002 5:40 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComqH > Subject: Re: Every cloud has a silver lining? Hopefully this one does. >  >  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: >  >  >>JF - >> >> >>H >>>>>Carly and friends were convinced "industry standard" would rule.<<< >>>>>sE >>There is no question at all that Customers are demanding "industry oG >>standard" solutions - that is the whole reason why IBM, Sun, Oracle, mH >>Microsoft, PeopleSoft + a kazillion other companies are investigating  >>Web Services.s >>G >>While Web Services still as a fair ways to go, its biggest driver is hE >>that it will allow much better interoperability and integration of h: >>applications - both inside and external to the firewall. >>F >>Now, if you equate "industry standard" to x86 systems, then I agree D >>with you that they are certainly not going to "rule" anytime soon. >>H >>However, I would suggest Customers want "industry standard solutions". >> > F >>Imho, what Customers are going to buy in the future are proprietary D >>HW/OS platforms (security, availability and scalability) that run ; >>industry standard software layers on top of them for max t# >>interoperability and integration.l >>: >>Why do you think IBM is promoting the "Linux Mainframe"? >> >> >  > ! > No idea its a horrible concept.  > ; > Take an OS with very little commercial software availables: > for it but which has the benefit of being apparently low> > cost (not actually true but hey) with the additional benefit4 > of being available on an apparently cheap hardwareC > platform. Port it to one of the most expensive hardware platformsoI > available and charge customers loads of money for the SW to support it.tJ > Use a different ABI to ensure that most of the commercial apps availableH > for Linux don't run on it and deliver a platform thats actually slowerH > than the cheap hardware platform most people use to host Linux and you( > have a value proposition made in hell. > # > But that is Linux on a mainframe.o > 	 > Regardsd > Andrew Harrisone >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 08 Jul 2002 09:33:16 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...2- Message-ID: <87y9cnt34z.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:C    ; > in the Clean Room, as did the 4-way and 8-way Tornado and C > Typhoon). First large McKinley box is likely to be Superdome with  > IPF board swap.'  D When the Superdome was anounced, on of its `features' was being ableC to run the `Smoking-Brick-of-Death' in it. Look at the power supplye specs...   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.t@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:20:53 GMTo# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...lC Message-ID: <9dhW8.50$Raj1.17@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>o  5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messagen* news:ag8vp7$gpt$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...H > In article <xkOV8.7406$rdy.1490@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,$ > John Smith <a@nonymous.com> wrote:8 > >"Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in message- > >news:ag6umc$qbb$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...a > >>F > >> A knife can be used to butter bread.  It can also be used to stabC > >> someone in the back.  It was the latter possibility that I wasS > >> referring to. > >>E > >> Would YOU trust Microsoft with your business, if you were CEO ofo > >> Intel?  > >AF > >Certainly not. I agree with you, however you overlook one importantK > >fact.....take away all the MS-driven business and Intel doesn't have the I > >financial capacity to develop IA-64. Not when the chip market is still. > >fragmented. >2D > I assure you that I am NOT overlooking that!  My point is that theA > decision on whether to take that away is not primarily Intel's.,9 > What happens if Microsoft decides not to support IA-64?  >aD > There are rumours that Microsoft are threatening to jump ship, butB > my guess is that it is using such threats more for leverage thanB > as statements of intent.  But since when did Intel and MicrosoftB > invite me to listen in on their negotiations?  The situation is,A > however, one where there are several plausible outcomes - and IbC > have heard no convincing reason why Microsoft could not afford to : > drop the IA-64, especially if the Hammer line takes off. >O? > If that happens, Fiorina will show whether she is a leader or B > merely a dictator.  In the former case, she would ensure that HPE > rethought its strategy, pronto, with no prejudices.  In the latter,C2 > she would merely accelerate the heretic burning. >c  K In that event, I wonder whether it will be the witch burning the workers orhK the shareholders burning the witch? My bet is on the former because the BODlK is packed with cronies and prople who really don't understand technology or  marketing at any level.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:57:09 GMT01 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>m- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...H. Message-ID: <9LhW8.122429$Uu2.22387@sccrnsc03>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message= news:9dhW8.50$Raj1.17@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...h >  <snip>J > In that event, I wonder whether it will be the witch burning the workers orI > the shareholders burning the witch? My bet is on the former because then BODSJ > is packed with cronies and prople who really don't understand technology or > marketing at any level.m  J It is indeed distressing to see high-tech companies with technology-bereft BoDs.(   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 15:44:06 GMTR( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren)- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...00 Message-ID: <agcc06$ajf$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  . In article <9LhW8.122429$Uu2.22387@sccrnsc03>,3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:8 |> 31 |> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message_@ |> news:9dhW8.50$Raj1.17@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... |> >	 |> <snip>iM |> > In that event, I wonder whether it will be the witch burning the workersr |> or L |> > the shareholders burning the witch? My bet is on the former because the |> BODM |> > is packed with cronies and prople who really don't understand technology  |> orr |> > marketing at any level. |> eM |> It is indeed distressing to see high-tech companies with technology-berefte |> BoDs.  B This has been a feature of the larger British companies for a longA time, and it is clear that some of the USA ones are attempting tou! emulate the UK computer industry.s     Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:47:09 GMTp1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>c- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications...h. Message-ID: <1uiW8.438734$352.62167@sccrnsc02>  5 "Nick Maclaren" <nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote in messagef* news:agcc06$ajf$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk... >t0 > In article <9LhW8.122429$Uu2.22387@sccrnsc03>,5 > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:k > |>3 > |> "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in messagenB > |> news:9dhW8.50$Raj1.17@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > |> > > |> <snip> G > |> > In that event, I wonder whether it will be the witch burning thed workers  > |> orrJ > |> > the shareholders burning the witch? My bet is on the former because theo > |> BODD > |> > is packed with cronies and prople who really don't understand
 technology > |> ore > |> > marketing at any level. > |>= > |> It is indeed distressing to see high-tech companies withe technology-berefts
 > |> BoDs. >ED > This has been a feature of the larger British companies for a longC > time, and it is clear that some of the USA ones are attempting to # > emulate the UK computer industry.n  G I don't believe that marketing expertise is a prerequisite to corporatenL governance, but it would seem to me that at least several members of the BoDK of a technology company should have a clue about technology. In the case ofoK HPQ, it would be nice to see such technological expertise extend beyond thec president and CEO...   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:15:50 -0700b' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>-- Subject: Re: Fearless IPF Prognostications... * Message-ID: <3D29BAB6.70A474B@caltech.edu>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:hM > I strongly suspect that McKinley-based workstations will start at under $5KeM > USD when they are announced next week, but more will be known on or about 8C > July.a  D The alpha refrain was always "twice the performance at 3X the price"B which wasn't the riff the mass market wanted to whistle. Given the> current cost/performance of the relevant systems it looks likeC Itanium's will be (at best) "50% more performance at 3X the price".a9 That tune doesn't seem any more likely than the older oneS: to make it into the workstation hit parade.  We'll see howE it plays in the server market.  Meanwhile I see a lot of toes tapping  over in the Hammer camp...   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:35:04 GMTl5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> , Subject: Re: Help- No DECWindows on Hobbyist2 Message-ID: <sqhW8.19$Ro5.498712@news.cpqcorp.net>  H The NOAVAIL is saying that the device driver failed it's initialization.  4 What is the device?  Do a ANAL/SYS and a CLUE CONFIG      : Alder wrote in message <3D28A5FD.7010805@spammotel.com>... >Larry Kilgallen wrote:e6 > > In article <3D289851.2000108@spammotel.com>, Alder( > > <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com> writes: > >0 > > B > >>> I have a problem setting up DEC Windows on my hobbyist AlphaG > >>> system, particularly the proper detection of the graphics device.4E > >>> At the hardware detection stage of bootup, the graphics card ishC > >>> properly detected as a Cirrus Logic card, but just before theIE > >>> login prompt first appears the following error message appears:y > >>>e7 > >>> DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE, no graphics devices foundc > >> > >r3 > > Are you certain that card is supported by VMS ?h >eC >No, not certain, but am still trying to find the "master" hardwareTF >compatibility matrix.  In the meantime, here's what SHOW DEV returns: >r >$ sho dev /full gqa >dK >Device GQA0:, device type DECwindows output device, is offline, device set H >     /NOAVAILABLE, record-oriented device, carriage control, shareable. >s> >     Error count                    0    Operations completed	 >       0k3 >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UICl	 >[SYSTEM]C2 >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot >S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPL= >     Reference count                0    Default buffer size-	 >       0  >i >KF >I suspect that NOAVAILABLE is VMS telling me that it does NOT support$ >this card, but I remain hopeful.... >B >Cheers, >4 >Alder >7   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 08:16:46 -0700r& From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: HP IPF announcement, Message-ID: <3D29ACDE.6060404@gregcagle.com>  + http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020708/80077_1.htmlh -- v
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:04:38 +0100a% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net> " Subject: Re: HP to fire 1500 in UK8 Message-ID: <k6liiu0rkg57lbpivbam7gee0nre6ps714@4ax.com>  , On Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:15:05 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:i   >aN >  Jobs to go include 450 permanent posts and 180 temporary jobs at the formerO >Compaq plant at  Erskine, near Glasgow in Scotland. About 900 jobs will remaina >at the Erskine plant.  B According to local press reports a number of the jobs that will goB include those formally employed at the one-time DEC Ayr plant, whoC were only transferred to the Compaq Erskine plant a few months, ago  after Compaq sold it off.M   >iJ >  The rest of the jobs will go at sites in London and Reading in southernO >England and Livingston in Scotland. The company said Thursday it would consultc9 >with workers' representatives before  making those cuts.    -- Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:45:27 +0010u% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auM" Subject: Re: HP to fire 1500 in UK5 Message-ID: <01KJV4475EYA0008C9@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>=   Alan Greig wrote:   - >On Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:15:05 -0400, JF Mezeio& ><jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: >i >>I >>  Jobs to go include 450 permanent posts and 180 temporary jobs at the b formerJ >>Compaq plant at  Erskine, near Glasgow in Scotland. About 900 jobs will  remain >>at the Erskine plant.= > C >According to local press reports a number of the jobs that will go C >include those formally employed at the one-time DEC Ayr plant, wholD >were only transferred to the Compaq Erskine plant a few months, ago >after Compaq sold it off. >m >>K >>  The rest of the jobs will go at sites in London and Reading in southernaI >>England and Livingston in Scotland. The company said Thursday it would   consulth: >>with workers' representatives before  making those cuts.    M Time to read the "Yes Minister" scripts again.  I just re-read the book last fL week.  (Jonathan Lynn and Ant(h?)ony Jay, for those who cannot remember the 	 authors.)u   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:50:11 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Lynx & SSL + Message-ID: <agc1q3$220$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>a  \ In article <ag70ah$slg$4@news1.Radix.Net>, Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> writes:5 >Christoph Gartmann <gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de> wrote:  >lR >> Now the question remains: will OpenSSL ever include support for native Multinet0 >> or will Lynx be modified to demangle sockets? >lN >I'm not sure (of the former).  For lynx - I'll incorporate changes (but don't> >have an account with enough space to build/test lynx on VMS). >  >--     L How do you get Lynx 2.8.4 with SSL to build on VMS with Dec TCPIP Services ?L There doesn't seem to be any instructions for VMS in the distribution - justL the use the --with-ssl configuration option which is ok for Unix but doesn't
 help for VMS.u  : I tried making the changes suggested in an earlier post :-  I >1.  Modified BUILD.COM and LIBMAKE.COM to add "USE_SSL,USE_OPENSSL_INCL" ' >    to each "/DEFINE=(...)"-statement. 5 >2.  Modified the LINK command in BUILD.COM and added . >       ssllib:libssl/LIB,ssllib:libcrypto/LIB= >    at the end. The order of the two libraries is mandatory!     @ but when accessing a https protected document it crashes with :-  " Alpha1:lynx https://www.oracle.com Terminal =vt300_series) Making HTTPS connection to www.oracle.comS; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtuals address=000000000000& 0000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=0000001B/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows J   image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PCO                                             0 0000000000000000 0000000000000000iO  LYNX                                       0 0000000000234E3C 0000000000244E3CmO  LYNX                                       0 0000000000231508 0000000000241508dO  LYNX                                       0 00000000002290B0 00000000002390B0 O  LYNX                                       0 0000000000218BC4 0000000000228BC4iO  LYNX                                       0 0000000000218630 0000000000228630/O  LYNX  HTTP  HTLoadHTTP                 53131 0000000000000958 00000000001E78B8lO  LYNX  HTACCESS  HTLoad                 52077 0000000000001D0C 00000000001EEC1C O  LYNX  HTACCESS  HTLoadDocument         52310 0000000000000000 0000000000000000gO  LYNX  LYGETFILE  getfile               51625 000000000000197C 000000000014000Cs'  LYNX  LYMAINLOOP  handle_LYK_DOWN_HALF8O                                         59328 00000000000099DC 000000000015E95ClO  LYNX  LYMAINLOOP  mainloop             60683 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 O  LYNX  LYMAIN  main                     54540 00000000000024B8 0000000000152B38oO  LYNX  LYMAIN  __main                       0 000000000000006C 00000000001506EC"O                                             0 FFFFFFFF8025B3B4 FFFFFFFF8025B3B4,  2 A Fatal error has occurred in Lynx Ver. 2.8.4rel.1   This is with OPENSSL  0.9.6d  , When linking I got the following warnings :-   .y .o .,7 [-.WWW.Library.Implementation]WWWLib_UCX.olb/library, -r) ssllib:libssl/LIB,ssllib:libcrypto/LIB, -p2 sys$disk:[]UCXSHR.opt/opt, sys$disk:[]DECC.opt/opt sys$share:ucx$ipc_shr/share" sys$library:vaxcrtl/libraryt sys$library:vaxccurse/libraryt$ %LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warningsB         in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;1& %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 4 undefined symbols:  %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_CLOSE %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_RECV  %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_SENDa# %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_SHUTDOWN 5 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol SI_SEND referencedm)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000080 B         in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;16 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol SI_CLOSE referenced)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X000000E0rB         in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;19 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol SI_SHUTDOWN referencedl)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X000000F0nB         in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;15 %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol SI_RECV referencedl)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000150 B         in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;1 $e  
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 14:06:48 GMTL3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann). Subject: Re: Lynx & SSL 0 Message-ID: <agc69o$imo$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  L In article <agc1q3$220$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:M >There doesn't seem to be any instructions for VMS in the distribution - justoM >the use the --with-ssl configuration option which is ok for Unix but doesn'tn >help for VMS. >a; >I tried making the changes suggested in an earlier post :-  > J >>1.  Modified BUILD.COM and LIBMAKE.COM to add "USE_SSL,USE_OPENSSL_INCL"( >>    to each "/DEFINE=(...)"-statement.6 >>2.  Modified the LINK command in BUILD.COM and added/ >>       ssllib:libssl/LIB,ssllib:libcrypto/LIB.> >>    at the end. The order of the two libraries is mandatory! >  > A >but when accessing a https protected document it crashes with :-  > # >Alpha1:lynx https://www.oracle.com  >Terminal =vt300_series * >Making HTTPS connection to www.oracle.com< >%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual >address=000000000000w' >0000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=0000001B-0 >%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followsK >  image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC. [...]s  % >%LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warnings.C >        in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;1i' >%LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 4 undefined symbols:.! >%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_CLOSE4  >%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_RECV  >%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_SEND$ >%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_SHUTDOWN  O This explains your crash. And obviously there is something wrong with the buildkM of your OpenSSL. Did you specify a parameter P5 as UCX when building OpenSSL?tE I overlooked this one as well in the beginning because it is not wellSJ documented. It is possible to build OpenSSL without P5 but then it has now network support ;-)o   Regards,    Christoph Gartmannn  H -- --------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, Germany                                           |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:05:01 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Lynx & SSLe+ Message-ID: <agcd7d$5no$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>M  f In article <agc69o$imo$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>, gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:M >In article <agc1q3$220$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:iN >>There doesn't seem to be any instructions for VMS in the distribution - justN >>the use the --with-ssl configuration option which is ok for Unix but doesn't >>help for VMS.o >>< >>I tried making the changes suggested in an earlier post :- >>K >>>1.  Modified BUILD.COM and LIBMAKE.COM to add "USE_SSL,USE_OPENSSL_INCL"r) >>>    to each "/DEFINE=(...)"-statement.n7 >>>2.  Modified the LINK command in BUILD.COM and addede0 >>>       ssllib:libssl/LIB,ssllib:libcrypto/LIB? >>>    at the end. The order of the two libraries is mandatory!o >> >>B >>but when accessing a https protected document it crashes with :- >>$ >>Alpha1:lynx https://www.oracle.com >>Terminal =vt300_series+ >>Making HTTPS connection to www.oracle.comt= >>%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtualg >>address=000000000000( >>0000, PC=0000000000000000, PS=0000001B1 >>%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump followssL >>  image    module    routine             line      rel PC           abs PC >[...] >l& >>%LINK-W-WRNERS, compilation warningsD >>        in module BSS_SOCK file SSLROOT:[ALPHA_LIB]LIBCRYPTO.OLB;1( >>%LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 4 undefined symbols:" >>%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_CLOSE! >>%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_RECVv! >>%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_SEND % >>%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         SI_SHUTDOWN- >eP >This explains your crash. And obviously there is something wrong with the buildN >of your OpenSSL. Did you specify a parameter P5 as UCX when building OpenSSL?F >I overlooked this one as well in the beginning because it is not wellK >documented. It is possible to build OpenSSL without P5 but then it has nowm >network support ;-) >n	 >Regards,n >   Christoph Gartmann >g  N Yes that explains it. I was following the instructions in the INSTALL.VMS file which just specifies :-   3 @MAKEVMS <option> <rsaref-p> <debug-p> [<compiler>]r   no mention of any p5 parameter.u  M I've just now been to Robert Byer's excellent site where it does document the 
 p5 parameter.p    O Thanks I'll try and rebuild openssl now and then give rebuilding Lynx with SSL e another try.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University B                                  ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:44:44 GMTm1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>K Subject: McKinley Cometh...a. Message-ID: <gHgW8.438259$352.61859@sccrnsc02>  , And the performance looks surprisingly good!  ) More at www.tru64.org and www.openvms.org1     -- Terry C. Shannon Consultant and Publisher Shannon Knows HPC-" PLEASE NOTE MY *NEW* EMAIL ADDRESS email: terryshannon@attbi.comm4 Web (info on SKHPC):  www.openvms.org, www.tru64.org   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 16:55:43 GMT$( From: nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...g0 Message-ID: <agcg6f$e9v$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>  . In article <gHgW8.438259$352.61859@sccrnsc02>,3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:s/ |> And the performance looks surprisingly good!e |> e, |> More at www.tru64.org and www.openvms.org  < Don't hold your breath.  While the performance is marginallyA better than I was expecting, it does apply only to HP's products,r; and you can expect less good results on many other vendors'e; (both because of the chipset and because of the compilers).w  . Intel's availability page is most interesting:  < http://www.intel.com/eBusiness/products/itanium/wb020402.htm  > Precisely ONE workstation vendor (HP) is on the list - so what happened to Bandera? :-)  < The list of server vendors is impressive, until you read it.? SGI has committed to deliver Itanium 2 servers sometime, Unisys > says that they are wonderful and IBM and NEC have said nothing< yet.  Most of the other entries are clearly not serious, and some I doubt are even real.s  ? HP has both workstation and server products in its product list = with prices, but they are not orderable online.  Expecting HPP> to update the whole Web system on the first day is a bit much,/ but it does say something about their approach.-  : I shall be VERY interested to hear when the first ORDINARY> customer manages to buy an Itanium 2 system, using an ordinary- sales channel.  That is the TRUE launch date.0    ? If AMD are in the business of being vicious, and the ClawhammertA is as advanced as the most optimistic rumours say (that is a veryhA big if) they will announce comparable performance figures (though > not for Linpack, SpecFP etc.) later this week.  I have no idea3 how Sun will respond, but I suspect that they will.m       Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:08:46 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>l Subject: RE: McKinley Cometh...vT Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660809@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Nick,-  G Re: Market acceptance of IPF-2 .. While I agree it is still very early, " there is some momentum growing.=20  < Fwiw, you likely have seen these pointers, but just in case:H http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/linux/story/0,10801,72566 ,00.html2 "Intel's Itanium 2 gains support from UnitedLinux"  F http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,342906,00.asp (more on Unisys.com site)l' "Unisys Jumping on Itanium 2 Bandwagon"nF "Unisys Corp. will release an upgraded version of its 32-way ES7000 on9 Monday featuring Intel Corp.'s new Itanium 2 processor. "i   Regardsi  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicese Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----2 From: Nick Maclaren [mailto:nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk]=20 Sent: July 8, 2002 12:56 PMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma Subject: Re: McKinley Cometh...C      . In article <gHgW8.438259$352.61859@sccrnsc02>,3 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes: / |> And the performance looks surprisingly good!  |>=20s, |> More at www.tru64.org and www.openvms.org  H Don't hold your breath.  While the performance is marginally better thanH I was expecting, it does apply only to HP's products, and you can expectE less good results on many other vendors' (both because of the chipset. and because of the compilers).  . Intel's availability page is most interesting:  < http://www.intel.com/eBusiness/products/itanium/wb020402.htm  G Precisely ONE workstation vendor (HP) is on the list - so what happened, to Bandera? :-)e  D The list of server vendors is impressive, until you read it. SGI hasF committed to deliver Itanium 2 servers sometime, Unisys says that theyG are wonderful and IBM and NEC have said nothing yet.  Most of the other-@ entries are clearly not serious, and some I doubt are even real.  D HP has both workstation and server products in its product list withF prices, but they are not orderable online.  Expecting HP to update the@ whole Web system on the first day is a bit much, but it does say something about their approach.-  C I shall be VERY interested to hear when the first ORDINARY customeriD manages to buy an Itanium 2 system, using an ordinary sales channel. That is the TRUE launch date.a    E If AMD are in the business of being vicious, and the Clawhammer is asdH advanced as the most optimistic rumours say (that is a very big if) theyE will announce comparable performance figures (though not for Linpack, G SpecFP etc.) later this week.  I have no idea how Sun will respond, butd I suspect that they will.a       Regards, Nick Maclaren,* University of Cambridge Computing Service,> New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England. Email:  nmm1@cam.ac.uk/ Tel.:  +44 1223 334761    Fax:  +44 1223 334679r   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:21:21 +0100d From: paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com, Subject: Memo:  Mysterious non-spinning diskE Message-ID: <OF54C8014C.48CDABF1-ON80256BF0.003746A5@systems.uk.hsbc>    Technosleuths --  A I have a disk (9GB Seagate ST39102LW) that works only in specificrD circumstances and can't logically divine what the actual problem is:J This disk was originally in a DPW 500au (VMS 7.2) and worked fine for over a year. I I added 2 x 4.3 GB disks to the system (which worked) and the 9GB stopped  working.J It reports correctly at both console and VMS levels but refuses to mount -9 it won't spin up but reports no errors or other problems.u1 The disk works under the following circumstances: ( In an AXP255 system - all is as expectedJ IN the original system but powered from the AXP255 (that is the disk power8 leads from the 255 and the scsi connection from the DPW.( I does not work (always the same error):
 In the DPW* In a AXP3000-400 (with the scsi converter)I Always the same effect - scsi reports the disk as present and OK but upont2 mount or other command, fails as it won't spin up.  E I have now replaced the 9GB with a 4.3GB and the new disk works fine. I According to the specs, the 9GB draws less power on spinup that the 4GBs.a; I have replaced the power supply in the DPW with no effect.   K I am ready to give up and mount this on the wall as a piece of art but as a-I last resort invite any and all wild theories on what exactly is happeningx here.    Many thanksn   Paul        ' ** HSBC's website is at www.hsbc.com **   D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, pleasehB  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.L  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or A  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, >  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context ofr?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.S  SD  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office l=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly hA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so e3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.:  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 08:47:41 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>0F Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <3D29358D.7020704@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  
 GcE wrote:H > Let me also commend the web page author. Perhaps he might let us know G > what is up with the bits on the ftp site, too, that look for example 3$ > like ports of Gnumeric or BOCHS... >  > F Ok : The web page contents is not finished So i.e the a port to VMS ofG    BOCHS (a pentium emulator) is not yet there. I still have to update NL the patch available on my FTP site to a more current one. Please be patient.  G Gnumeric( spreadsheet a la excel) : Yes I have a running version of an 8G "old" version.Its not yet perfect i.e. it can read Excell files but it 0I writes not correctly. In order to get this program running I also needed CH to port al sorts of GNOME libraries. I would like to get all my OpenVMS H changes into the original sources, but than I have to redo all the work A for a more recent version (CVS instead of the last stable ones). OG Presently many things during the build process have to be done by hand 0H so it is not ready for prime time. If people are realy interested I can I put the binaries (as_is, without garantee or help) for OpenVMS7.3 on the 0	 FTP-site.8H It is on my list of TODO to port a more recent version but it will take  a lot of work.  !                              Jouk    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:00:16 +0200 ' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>iF Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS2 Message-ID: <3D293880.3080304@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Terry C. Shannon wrote:l> > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net> wrote in message# > news:3D277BCB.A00995F6@fsi.net...$ >  >>JOUKJ wrote: >> >>>Hi Folks, >>>tF >>>I created a new web page (http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/) onF >>>which I'm planning to give a summary of all Publicdomain software IJ >>>contributed ports and/or patches to in order to have it run on OpenVMS.G >>>The page consists of link to where to get it, what to patch and whatS< >>>software it depends on (and links to these dependencies).G >>>I hope this page will help to make it easier to find/install/run then >>>software on OpenVMS.R >>>AJ >>>The present page is an initial version. More packages will be added theI >>>coming weeks, but already contains some nice ports not found elsewhereK' >>>on OpenVMS pages(i.e. Ted & Pfaedit)  >>4 >>The effort is much needed and greatly appreciated. >>H >>However, I must agree with Jan-Erik and company: the color scheme is aG >>bit painful. Red on magenta is virtually invisible to some, just as I_. >>cannot see dark blue on black or vice-versa. >> >  > N > Yep, the current colour scheme might render the site virtually unreadable toL > the ~10 percent of the male population that suffers from colour blindness. >  >  >  > D Ok, Now you can choose: the original one or the the one which is de  default of your own browserR    
       Jouk   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:26:40 +02001= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>eF Subject: Re: New web-page dedicated to ports of PD software to OpenVMS) Message-ID: <3D2976F0.B949D597@gtech.com>w   JOUKJ wrote:E > I created a new web page (http://nchrem.tnw.tudelft.nl/openvms/) onsE > which I'm planning to give a summary of all Publicdomain software IMI > contributed ports and/or patches to in order to have it run on OpenVMS..F > The page consists of link to where to get it, what to patch and what; > software it depends on (and links to these dependencies).eF > I hope this page will help to make it easier to find/install/run the > software on OpenVMS. > I > The present page is an initial version. More packages will be added therH > coming weeks, but already contains some nice ports not found elsewhere& > on OpenVMS pages(i.e. Ted & Pfaedit)  > I think you should consider another term than "public domain".  ; It has a very specific meaning and very little freeware areu actually public domain.   > Maybe freeware is a better term (be carefull about restriction' on usage of some open source packages).S   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:16:44 +0100oU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>F4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)0 Message-ID: <agbl8o$ffk$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > JF - > E > Re: measuring numbers of systems Customers have as a measure of howg > popular they were vs now ..n > I > Fwiw, the total numbers of systems in almost all med to large CustomerstI > is shrinking a huge amount these days. Almost every one of these Cust'saJ > is either considering, investigating or implementing an IT consolidation3 > project as a means to reduce their overall costs.u > E > And this applies to all platforms. We bid on one RFP here in Canada H > whereby the Govt wanted to reduce the number of small Sun systems fromI > 150 down to less than 10. Another Customer has over 1100 NT servers andyG > wanted this number to shrink to 250 range. Another Customer in CanadabJ > has approx 115 small VAX and Alpha servers across the country and wantes0 > to reduce that overall number to less than 10. > J > All of these have the same thing in common. Reduce the overall number ofA > servers with much bigger, higher availability and in many casesrI > multi-site as well... (IT consolidation 101 says a single site is not aa
 > wise move.)i >      Motherhood and Apple pie.c  ; But how will you address this with OpenVMS. Lets get a tinyM weeny dose of reality here.    1. s1 Unless you cluster which can drag your SW licenceo: costs up to a level that makes you wince OpenVMS currentlyD doesn't have a platform that will support very large consolitations.   2.  6 OpenVMS does not have the SW portfolio available on it9 to make it a viable platform for consolidations off otherKE platforms. One of the single biggest issues with server consolitationb2 is minimising the risk of re-hosting applications.  A Having the same application and the same version available on thet< target platform as is currently in use on the platform to be< consolidated is a big risk mitigation factor, having a newer; version of the application helps, not having the app at alle* means a port upping the risk considerably.  : Of course you may be dealing with an environment where say> every app uses the same version of the same DBMS, this however is highly unusual.  < I have jsut been working on a DBMS consolidation (one of the9 easiest groups of apps to consolidate) it would have been:8 impossible to use an OpenVMS platform because 20% of the6 100 odd DBMS's being consolidated were newish versions
 of Sybase.  : For the second reason and for that alone OpenVMS is a poor= to very poor choice except as a platform to consolidate otherd OpenVMS boxes.  9 So I would doubt that many OpenVMS servers are being used 4 as big cross-platform consolidation platforms. In my, experience its is normally a donor platform.  < So more usefull information from the choir to the members of; the congregation in a general sense, but of little specific , use if you happen to be an OpenVMS advocate.    G > This does not mean these companies are reducing their dependancies oneE > that OS. On the contrary, it likely means they are increasing theircH > dependancy as a single server being down has a much bigger impact than	 > before.  > H > The point is that trying to measure how popular an OS / platform is byJ > simple numbers of servers is no longer a good measurement. The only onesI > still doing this as a measurement today are those Gartner types who areB > still living in the 90's.... >     > Quite but then Gartner uses Dataquest numbers which also break= down the market into sizes of servers as well, but surely you:
 knew that.  = And as you know perfectly well these numbers also do not makeh9 pleasant reading if you happen to be an OpenVMS advocate..   Regards. Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:53:05 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>y4 Subject: RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660803@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,1   >>> Unless you cluster ..<<   E Ahhh .. What a great way to wake up on a Mon morning .. Nice day out,aF birds are singing and our weekly dose of fud from our local Sun rep ..   :-)<  F Ok, so your answer is to put a single big SMP box to do the job with aG system standing in the corner doing some other make work stuff "just ind case", right ?  H What a laugh. How do you shut that primary server down for planned maintF or OS upgrades/tuning with ZERO impact on the application availability6 (new requirements for large consolidation projects..)?  G As a matter of fact, OpenVMS provides a great consolidation platform as C rule number 1 in consolidation projects is never consolidate to onesG site. With OpenVMS, you can set up an Oracle 9i RAC / 8i OPS multi-sitedG SAN cluster up to 100Km apart (600km with ATM). Full read-write load is B balanced across servers in both sites and all servers managed as a single virtual "system".=20d  G With other multi-site solutions, you are either faced with the "R" word H (replication) which might be ok for some sites that can deal with losingH data during an event (async replic period x # trans/second) or not beingH able to balance the full read-write load across servers at all sites (asH is the case with sync replication). In both of these cases, exposing theH business to lost data and/or not taking full advantage of all servers is% rapidly becoming a thing of the past.   H >>> I have jsut been working on a DBMS consolidation (one of the easiest! groups of apps to consolidate)<<<t  H Having actually done a few consolidations myself, this statement is pure6 crap - and any self respecting DBA will agree with me.  F A DBMS consolidation on any platform can be extremely difficult to do,B so this really indicates to me a lack of real world experience andH anyone who states otherwise is just singing from a corporate song sheet.  & . And now back to my morning coffee ..   :-)H   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant4 Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Services- Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyB7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20. Sent: July 8, 2002 5:17 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com24 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)         Main, Kerry wrote:   > JF - >=20H > Re: measuring numbers of systems Customers have as a measure of how=20 > popular they were vs now ..0 >=20B > Fwiw, the total numbers of systems in almost all med to large=20I > Customers is shrinking a huge amount these days. Almost every one of=20 I > these Cust's is either considering, investigating or implementing an=20eD > IT consolidation project as a means to reduce their overall costs. >=20H > And this applies to all platforms. We bid on one RFP here in Canada=20H > whereby the Govt wanted to reduce the number of small Sun systems from  H > 150 down to less than 10. Another Customer has over 1100 NT servers=20G > and wanted this number to shrink to 250 range. Another Customer in=20uI > Canada has approx 115 small VAX and Alpha servers across the country=20e; > and wantes to reduce that overall number to less than 10.  >=20J > All of these have the same thing in common. Reduce the overall number=20G > of servers with much bigger, higher availability and in many cases=20gJ > multi-site as well... (IT consolidation 101 says a single site is not=20 > a wise move.), >=20     Motherhood and Apple pie.   F But how will you address this with OpenVMS. Lets get a tiny weeny dose of reality here.   1.=20s1 Unless you cluster which can drag your SW licencesG costs up to a level that makes you wince OpenVMS currently doesn't have27 a platform that will support very large consolitations.h   2.=20s6 OpenVMS does not have the SW portfolio available on itH to make it a viable platform for consolidations off other platforms. OneH of the single biggest issues with server consolitation is minimising the  risk of re-hosting applications.  H Having the same application and the same version available on the targetG platform as is currently in use on the platform to be consolidated is aiE big risk mitigation factor, having a newer version of the applicationt= helps, not having the app at all means a port upping the risks
 considerably.   D Of course you may be dealing with an environment where say every appG uses the same version of the same DBMS, this however is highly unusual.n  D I have jsut been working on a DBMS consolidation (one of the easiestF groups of apps to consolidate) it would have been impossible to use anE OpenVMS platform because 20% of the 100 odd DBMS's being consolidated  were newish versions of Sybase.h  : For the second reason and for that alone OpenVMS is a poorE to very poor choice except as a platform to consolidate other OpenVMSe boxes.  9 So I would doubt that many OpenVMS servers are being usede4 as big cross-platform consolidation platforms. In my, experience its is normally a donor platform.  @ So more usefull information from the choir to the members of theB congregation in a general sense, but of little specific use if you! happen to be an OpenVMS advocate.n    J > This does not mean these companies are reducing their dependancies on=20H > that OS. On the contrary, it likely means they are increasing their=20H > dependancy as a single server being down has a much bigger impact than  	 > before.m >=20H > The point is that trying to measure how popular an OS / platform is by  H > simple numbers of servers is no longer a good measurement. The only=20I > ones still doing this as a measurement today are those Gartner types=20u& > who are still living in the 90's.... >=20    G Quite but then Gartner uses Dataquest numbers which also break down thes? market into sizes of servers as well, but surely you knew that.a  F And as you know perfectly well these numbers also do not make pleasant0 reading if you happen to be an OpenVMS advocate.   Regards  Andrew Harrisone   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 07:47:42 -0600s- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)s4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)3 Message-ID: <$m85IaFX911t@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  s In article <CP_V8.313513$6m5.300592@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:a >  > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 >   G    As someone else noted, HP did a proess release, Compaq had also done     press releases.  C    What's important is that HP's press release got carried, in lotspF    of places where it needed to get carried.  Compaq never pulled that    one off.*   ------------------------------    Date: 08 Jul 2002 10:05:45 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)- Message-ID: <87u1nbt1mu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>r  - kuhrt@encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:t  B > It might be said that VMS systems are so easy to manage that youE > only need a couple of people to manage 500K systems.  As opposed tof, > the 500k spent on managing each NT system.  e0 > It's not accurate, but it still might be said.  2 To quote a head operator from over 10 years ago...  = "We really should learn more about the Vax. But it just sit's  there and works."u   Half accurate anyway. :)   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:59:56 GMTy1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>r4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow). Message-ID: <g1gW8.452056$cQ3.33782@sccrnsc01>  : "Bob Koehler" <koehler@encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:$m85IaFX911t@eisner.encompasserve.org...lK > In article <CP_V8.313513$6m5.300592@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>, "Terry C.e) Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> writes:t > >  > > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 > >h >eI >    As someone else noted, HP did a proess release, Compaq had also done  >    press releases. >oE >    What's important is that HP's press release got carried, in lotseH >    of places where it needed to get carried.  Compaq never pulled that
 >    one off.t  J It's all a matter of proactive PR. The HPQ marketing folks apparently tookF the time to CALL the trade press organs. Such a concept apparently was foreign to the prior regime.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:00:45 +0100cU From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>e4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)0 Message-ID: <agc2cp$jqc$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,o >  >  >>>>Unless you cluster ..<<s >>>> > G > Ahhh .. What a great way to wake up on a Mon morning .. Nice day out,dH > birds are singing and our weekly dose of fud from our local Sun rep .. >  > :-)r > H > Ok, so your answer is to put a single big SMP box to do the job with aI > system standing in the corner doing some other make work stuff "just ine > case", right ? > J > What a laugh. How do you shut that primary server down for planned maintH > or OS upgrades/tuning with ZERO impact on the application availability8 > (new requirements for large consolidation projects..)? > I > As a matter of fact, OpenVMS provides a great consolidation platform asmE > rule number 1 in consolidation projects is never consolidate to oneeI > site. With OpenVMS, you can set up an Oracle 9i RAC / 8i OPS multi-site I > SAN cluster up to 100Km apart (600km with ATM). Full read-write load istD > balanced across servers in both sites and all servers managed as a > single virtual "system".   >     9 And performance is terrible on OLTP write intensive apps.   ; Kerry you are the perfect example of a workman who only hast> one tool, in your case its a hammer don't mistake every fixing& device arround for a nail, they arn't.  B The point unless you have missed it is that Custers are a solution> to some kinds of problem but not to all, you always trot out a? cluster because you cannot do very large SMP systems as you andc I know.o  @ Yes Oracle 9i RAC may be a solution, but if it is its a solution> that works on a multitude of cluster platforms from MS-Cluster Server through to OpenVMS.  > Yes geographic replication may be usefull, and an extended SAN may also be usefull as well.  > Your mistake which you keep on repeating is to ignore the mostE important issues your customers will have when doing a consolidation.    1. e@ Will all my current apps run on the platform you are proposing ? 	a= 	As you know full well with OpenVMS the answer is more likelya$ 	to be no than with other platforms.   2. c: Can I configure a system that will meet my requirments for= 	a consolidated server platform from current products in your  	range ?  = 	Again the answer is less likely to be yes if you are lookingj= 	at OpenVMS based Servers than if you were looking at SolarisV 	AIX or HP-UX servers.   3. 5< Can I manage and run the platform that you are proposing and= 	will it save me money over the multitude of platforms I havet 	replaced ?a  ; 	If the attempts at TCO studies that you have published arep> 	anthing to go by and we all know now that they don't actually; 	show OpenVMS to be a lower cost environment because of thet= 	miss-categorisation of your systems, then the answer to thise9 	question unless you can come up with something better ist	 	also no.a   4. p< Can the platform provider support me properly thoughout this@ 	excercise and ensure that I also get the right level of support2 	from my ISV's who will be critical to my sucess ?  > 	If you are a server consolidation expert from Compaq than the$ 	answer to this question is also no.  F I have done 6 major server consolidation projects for 2 telcos 2 banksE and a retail customer from a multitude of platforms to Solaris, theseaF are the questions that were critical to these customers and the sucess@ of the projects depended on the answers and the actual delivery.    I > With other multi-site solutions, you are either faced with the "R" wordRJ > (replication) which might be ok for some sites that can deal with losingJ > data during an event (async replic period x # trans/second) or not beingJ > able to balance the full read-write load across servers at all sites (asJ > is the case with sync replication). In both of these cases, exposing theJ > business to lost data and/or not taking full advantage of all servers is' > rapidly becoming a thing of the past.i >  > H >>>>I have jsut been working on a DBMS consolidation (one of the easiest >>>># > groups of apps to consolidate)<<<l > J > Having actually done a few consolidations myself, this statement is pure8 > crap - and any self respecting DBA will agree with me. >     = Sorry Kerry but you clearly don't have a clue. DBMS's are theiH one of the easiest types of apps to consolidate for a number of reasons.   1. a> Moving from say Oracle 8.1.5 on AIX to 8.1.5 on a consolidatedC Solaris platform is relatively easy, its generally a data migration  excercise not a port.e   2. e; Server based apps like Oracle/Sybase are relatively easy tobB manage within a resource management framework like PRM/SRM/WLM and8 have their own inherant resource management capabilites.   3. o; If you need to implement charge back as part of the processV@ because multiple business units are on the consolidated platform# then its easier if you have a DBMS.i   4.  2 Process is abstracted from data, you don't need to: migrate the process, though you may want to, you only need to migrate the data.  ; You also misread easiest as being easy, that was not what Im5 said. No server consolidation is easy but DBMS server " consolidation is easier than most.    H > A DBMS consolidation on any platform can be extremely difficult to do,D > so this really indicates to me a lack of real world experience andJ > anyone who states otherwise is just singing from a corporate song sheet. >     @ Sadly you as usual are mistaken, though I can understand why you@ may think this, you work in the OpenVMS market, OpenVMS is badly< supported by Oracle, Sybase etc and this support shows up in* the version support if at all for OpenVMS.  A Solaris 8 for example supports Oracle 7.3.4, 8.0.5, 8.0.6, 8.1.5,aG 8.1.6, 8.1.7, 9i 1 and 2, this is a pretty complete Oracle DBMS supportoB matrix which OpenVMS 7.2-2 cannot provide, now of course you couldA run 7.2-1 or 7.2 to get a more complete set of supported products - but then you would be adding more complexity.o  = Even worse story for OPS with 8.1.7 being the only version ofc; Oracle supported for OpenVMS in a parallel cluster, so what & happens if you have a 8.0.5 cluster ??  = Add Sybase into the mix and you have a very difficult task onm. your hands if OpenVMS is your chosen platform.     Regardsm   Andrew Harrisont   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:10:15 GMT,# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>h4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)C Message-ID: <b3hW8.43$Raj1.20@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>O  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message9 news:CP_V8.313513$6m5.300592@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...p >  > Post May 7 we have seen: >nJ > A more aggressive "platinum forum" effort (aka To Boot Or Not To Reboot) >s! > The VMS Immersion class at ZK03s >m > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 > K > I haven't seen the new org chart, so I don't know what positions are heldi byK > stealthy sorts, but IMHO things look a lot better than they did a year orb soG > ago. Hence I would not bash HPQ for taking initial steps in the righta > direction.  J When are we going to hear that Sybase will again have a current version ofJ their DBMS, and that SAP will be available on OpenVMS, and other similarlyI important 3rd party products? These are the true metrics of direction fori the future of VMS.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:12:04 GMT-# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>04 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)C Message-ID: <U4hW8.45$Raj1.12@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>n  E "GcE" <gce@gce.com> wrote in message news:3D2892F5.6030209@gce.com...f > Ever cheerful here...NOT.. > F > I find it nevertheless a bit encouraging that the press releases are
 willing toK > say good things about VMS in public and even make noise about there beingr areas L > VMS is superlatively good at. That is one of the sine qua non actions thatD > is needed. Not the only one, but an important bit: shows that such language forL > the OS is not being suppressed. Longer term, some money in marketing needs toC > follow, since press releases are after all freebies. Still publico demonstration ofL > the guts to say that a non-unix, non-MS OS is superlative in some areas is$ > a good start.May it continue long. >r    I Just so long as it isn't a case of giving a terminally-ill cancer patientiA morphine to ease the pain -- it does nothing to cure the disease.i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:36:55 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>t4 Subject: RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660805@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew -  F >>> The point unless you have missed it is that Custers are a solutionF to some kinds of problem but not to all, you always trot out a clusterA because you cannot do very large SMP systems as you and I know.<<   B I did not say clusters were a solution to everything now did I?=20  C However, when doing IT consolidation, the impact of a single servercD going down (proactively or reactively) is obviously much higher than2 when a company has a number of smaller systems.=20  B Hence, IT Consolidation is an excellent example of where clusteredA solutions (including multi-site) should definitely be considered.eF Partitioned solutions are also important and most analysts rate serverE partitioning capabilities as being important considerations for thosen looking at IT Consolidation.  C Since you did not answer in your corp-speak response to my original1 question, I'll ask again -  D How do you proactively shut that single big SMP box down for plannedA maint or OS / HW upgrades / tuning / whatever with ZERO impact on.? application availability ie. no application restarting, no disk:( fail-over, no batch jobs restarting etc.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant0 Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesa Voice: 613-592-4660u Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20h Sent: July 8, 2002 9:01 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)         Main, Kerry wrote:  	 > Andrew,n >=20 >=20 >>>>Unless you cluster ..<<n >>>> >=20J > Ahhh .. What a great way to wake up on a Mon morning .. Nice day out,=20H > birds are singing and our weekly dose of fud from our local Sun rep .. >=20 > :-)0 >=20H > Ok, so your answer is to put a single big SMP box to do the job with a  I > system standing in the corner doing some other make work stuff "just=20  > in case", right ?  >=20G > What a laugh. How do you shut that primary server down for planned=20oD > maint or OS upgrades/tuning with ZERO impact on the application=20E > availability (new requirements for large consolidation projects..)?s >=20I > As a matter of fact, OpenVMS provides a great consolidation platform=20dH > as rule number 1 in consolidation projects is never consolidate to one  A > site. With OpenVMS, you can set up an Oracle 9i RAC / 8i OPS=20hD > multi-site SAN cluster up to 100Km apart (600km with ATM). Full=20E > read-write load is balanced across servers in both sites and all=20 / > servers managed as a single virtual "system".  >=20    9 And performance is terrible on OLTP write intensive apps.n  ; Kerry you are the perfect example of a workman who only hasuE one tool, in your case its a hammer don't mistake every fixing devicei arround for a nail, they arn't.c  E The point unless you have missed it is that Custers are a solution totC some kinds of problem but not to all, you always trot out a clustero? because you cannot do very large SMP systems as you and I know.h  E Yes Oracle 9i RAC may be a solution, but if it is its a solution thatcH works on a multitude of cluster platforms from MS-Cluster Server through to OpenVMS.   G Yes geographic replication may be usefull, and an extended SAN may alsoi be usefull as well.a  H Your mistake which you keep on repeating is to ignore the most important; issues your customers will have when doing a consolidation.    1.=20s@ Will all my current apps run on the platform you are proposing ? =09d= 	As you know full well with OpenVMS the answer is more likelyc$ 	to be no than with other platforms.   2.=20n: Can I configure a system that will meet my requirments for= 	a consolidated server platform from current products in yourI 	range ?  = 	Again the answer is less likely to be yes if you are lookingm= 	at OpenVMS based Servers than if you were looking at Solarise 	AIX or HP-UX servers.   3.=20i< Can I manage and run the platform that you are proposing and= 	will it save me money over the multitude of platforms I have= 	replaced ?.  ; 	If the attempts at TCO studies that you have published are > 	anthing to go by and we all know now that they don't actually; 	show OpenVMS to be a lower cost environment because of thee= 	miss-categorisation of your systems, then the answer to this 9 	question unless you can come up with something better iss	 	also no.g   4.=20a< Can the platform provider support me properly thoughout this@ 	excercise and ensure that I also get the right level of support2 	from my ISV's who will be critical to my sucess ?  > 	If you are a server consolidation expert from Compaq than the$ 	answer to this question is also no.  F I have done 6 major server consolidation projects for 2 telcos 2 banksE and a retail customer from a multitude of platforms to Solaris, theseaF are the questions that were critical to these customers and the sucess@ of the projects depended on the answers and the actual delivery.    G > With other multi-site solutions, you are either faced with the "R"=206 > wordC > (replication) which might be ok for some sites that can deal withc losingD > data during an event (async replic period x # trans/second) or not beingdF > able to balance the full read-write load across servers at all sites (asoF > is the case with sync replication). In both of these cases, exposing the G > business to lost data and/or not taking full advantage of all servers- is' > rapidly becoming a thing of the past.0 >=20 >=20H >>>>I have jsut been working on a DBMS consolidation (one of the easiest >>>># > groups of apps to consolidate)<<<u >=20H > Having actually done a few consolidations myself, this statement is=20= > pure crap - and any self respecting DBA will agree with me.h >=20    H Sorry Kerry but you clearly don't have a clue. DBMS's are the one of the= easiest types of apps to consolidate for a number of reasons.t   1.=20 F Moving from say Oracle 8.1.5 on AIX to 8.1.5 on a consolidated SolarisE platform is relatively easy, its generally a data migration excerciseh not a port..   2.=20fB Server based apps like Oracle/Sybase are relatively easy to manageF within a resource management framework like PRM/SRM/WLM and have their- own inherant resource management capabilites.    3.=20sC If you need to implement charge back as part of the process becauseCH multiple business units are on the consolidated platform then its easier if you have a DBMS.-   4.=20a2 Process is abstracted from data, you don't need to: migrate the process, though you may want to, you only need to migrate the data.  D You also misread easiest as being easy, that was not what I said. NoD server consolidation is easy but DBMS server consolidation is easier
 than most.    H > A DBMS consolidation on any platform can be extremely difficult to do,  G > so this really indicates to me a lack of real world experience and=20eF > anyone who states otherwise is just singing from a corporate song=20 > sheet. >=20    D Sadly you as usual are mistaken, though I can understand why you mayF think this, you work in the OpenVMS market, OpenVMS is badly supportedF by Oracle, Sybase etc and this support shows up in the version support if at all for OpenVMS.  H Solaris 8 for example supports Oracle 7.3.4, 8.0.5, 8.0.6, 8.1.5, 8.1.6,G 8.1.7, 9i 1 and 2, this is a pretty complete Oracle DBMS support matrix-H which OpenVMS 7.2-2 cannot provide, now of course you could run 7.2-1 orG 7.2 to get a more complete set of supported products but then you would# be adding more complexity.  D Even worse story for OPS with 8.1.7 being the only version of OracleH supported for OpenVMS in a parallel cluster, so what happens if you have a 8.0.5 cluster ??  H Add Sybase into the mix and you have a very difficult task on your hands# if OpenVMS is your chosen platform.s     Regards    Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:53:49 GMTd1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>o4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow). Message-ID: <1IhW8.122404$Uu2.22796@sccrnsc03>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message= news:b3hW8.43$Raj1.20@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...  >w> > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message; > news:CP_V8.313513$6m5.300592@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...m > >  > > Post May 7 we have seen: > >oL > > A more aggressive "platinum forum" effort (aka To Boot Or Not To Reboot) > >9# > > The VMS Immersion class at ZK03s > >p > > Press coverage on VMS V7.3 > >lH > > I haven't seen the new org chart, so I don't know what positions are held > byJ > > stealthy sorts, but IMHO things look a lot better than they did a year or > soI > > ago. Hence I would not bash HPQ for taking initial steps in the right  > > direction. >yL > When are we going to hear that Sybase will again have a current version ofL > their DBMS, and that SAP will be available on OpenVMS, and other similarlyK > important 3rd party products? These are the true metrics of direction fore > the future of VMS. >l  L I would ask that question of Sybase and SAP. SAP dropped VMS support becauseL the addressable market rendered continued support a non-starter. Now, if HPQL shareholders supported the notion of HPQ giving a few hundred million USD to8 SAP to fund a new port, perhaps SAP would be interested.  F I seriously doubt that HPQ shareholders would support such a giveaway, though.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:01:57 +0100 U From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com>p4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)0 Message-ID: <agc9g2$m6l$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  
 > Andrew - >  > F >>>>The point unless you have missed it is that Custers are a solution >>>>H > to some kinds of problem but not to all, you always trot out a clusterC > because you cannot do very large SMP systems as you and I know.<<  > B > I did not say clusters were a solution to everything now did I?  > E > However, when doing IT consolidation, the impact of a single server F > going down (proactively or reactively) is obviously much higher than2 > when a company has a number of smaller systems.  > D > Hence, IT Consolidation is an excellent example of where clusteredC > solutions (including multi-site) should definitely be considered.sH > Partitioned solutions are also important and most analysts rate serverG > partitioning capabilities as being important considerations for those  > looking at IT Consolidation. > E > Since you did not answer in your corp-speak response to my originalr > question, I'll ask again - > F > How do you proactively shut that single big SMP box down for plannedC > maint or OS / HW upgrades / tuning / whatever with ZERO impact onaA > application availability ie. no application restarting, no diskh* > fail-over, no batch jobs restarting etc. >     : Well thats of course where the holes in your understanding. of what is and isn't possible start appearing.  6 Why would you need to shut it down, I can remove CPU's9 memory and I/O controllers on any Sun in the F3800-F15000t4 range without any downtime, I can add them and I can: add for example faster CPU's/more memory without downtime.  7 If I think a CPU is going to fail because my monitorings: SW tells me it is, or if I start getting sticky ECC errors8 then I can turn the offending FRU off before it causes a: problem, then I can replace it while the system is online.  0 No application restart, no disk failover no jobs restarting.(  7 OS upgrade you can also do while the system is running,<9 though this does require you to re-boot to initialise the 1 new OS the upgrade process itself is done online.c   Patches, online.  6 Tuning, some tuning does require a re-boot but a great5 deal does not, for example tuning the IP stack is alls5 dynamic, much of the VM tuning is also dynamic and ing3 practice the big tuning knobs are not in the OS butt1 in the Apps themselves, where you are in the samel" boat whatever platform you are on.  6 So in practice, you need to re-boot a box once evey 188 months or more to take an OS upgrade, never if you don't: want to to replace HW, upgrade HW etc and very very seldom to do any form of tuning..  = The trick when designing RAS into a platform is to understandc; what consumes the most downtime and what does not. A reboot 6 does not consume much time, but an OS upgrade does, if6 you can do the upgrade while the system is online only5 requiring a reboot to run the new image then the bulk " of your downtime has been avoided.   Regardst Andrew Harrisonh   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:07:45 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)E Message-ID: <lNiW8.4268$FH6.670@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>   < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message( news:1IhW8.122404$Uu2.22796@sccrnsc03... >l > > K > > When are we going to hear that Sybase will again have a current versiono ofD > > their DBMS, and that SAP will be available on OpenVMS, and other	 similarlysI > > important 3rd party products? These are the true metrics of direction  forx > > the future of VMS. > >8 >5F > I would ask that question of Sybase and SAP. SAP dropped VMS support because J > the addressable market rendered continued support a non-starter. Now, if HPQ K > shareholders supported the notion of HPQ giving a few hundred million USDw to: > SAP to fund a new port, perhaps SAP would be interested. >.H > I seriously doubt that HPQ shareholders would support such a giveaway,	 > though.o  J So what's to make anyone think that HP will spend the money on advertisingH and marketing VMS? However if they don't spend it, they may as well haveK done what Walter Hewlett suggested, and that was to stick with printing and J consumables. The decision to spend a few hundred million bucks, whether itK is on advertising or as 'porting assistance' to ISV's would not rest within$F the Marketing dept. or even within the Enterprise Systems Division. AnL amount that large would be decided upon by the BOD after studies for/against were presented..  H Without marketing/advertising, there is no customer demand. Without appsK that customers want to purchase, there is no customer demand. So what's thes
 BOD to do?   HP buys Compaq to get what? K - A larger share of a money losing PC industry, where the best economies of G scale they might be able to muster may result in a 5% lowering of theiro8 costs. How much should they have paid for this division?  K - A pair of enterprise-class operating systems that are running on a doomediC platform, one of which is explicitly killed, the other despite it'saF formidable technical prowess, has, through the lack of marketing, beenJ relegated to a 'fringe' product in the industry. The cost of expanding itsJ marketshare to the point of once again having a wealth of applications andH sufficient 'mind share' in customer intentions is large. How much should2 they have paid for this pair of operating systems?  K - An enterprise-class operating system/hardware platform (NSK) that is even3E more niche than the previous two mentioned, and generates only modesteG profits. The customers for this product are not likely to migrate. Whatd& should HP have paid for this division?  H - A consulting services division that generated decent profits. How much& should HP have paid for this division?    L For my money, given the likely trend of decision making within HP, I'd have:F - offered to buy Tandem from Compaq - it's effectively an annuity-typeI business with highly price-insensitive customers and little likelihood ofi customer defections.C - recruited as many high-quality people from Compaq consulting, PWCrF consulting, and every other decent consulting house. I'd have acquiredD perhaps 35% of the number of staff (that were acquired in the CompaqK Consulting acquisition) this way, and I would have paid them more than they-K are getting now, but they'd be the creme-de-la-creme, and highly motivated.yI I would not have deadwood hanging around, nor the high costs of severanceg: and FUD within the staff as they wait for the axe to fall.  K What I would have avoided is the great sucking sounds of vast quantities ofa+ cash flying out the door with each PC sold.o  H I'd also avoid the uncertainty of trying to fight the battles internallyL between the factions that view VMS as a Zombie (the living dead) corpse, andI those who think that with a judicious application of money, exposure, and I commitment, that VMS will have long and vibrant and expanding life in thebK future. The battles only add to the uncertainty, and despite the morsels of J hope that have been recently tossed VMS's way, where is Carly's big publicH statement to the world at large (as opposed to inside ZKO) that says VMSH lives. Give me that statement, followed up with a 90-day action plan forL advertising, marketing, partner commitments/announcements, and the like, and5 I'm prepared to reduce my level of cynicism somewhat.   < Which faction do you realistically think will win inside HP?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:55:59 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>R4 Subject: RE: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)T Message-ID: <BE56C50EA024184DAF48F0B9A47F5CF402660808@kaoexc01.americas.cpqcorp.net>   Andrew,i  E >>> Why would you need to shut it down, I can remove CPU's memory anda. I/O controllers on any Sun in the F3800-F15000D range without any downtime, I can add them and I can add for example- faster CPU's/more memory without downtime.<<<a  9 So what happens when the load exceeds a single server?=20   E Perhaps an application that does not scale in an SMP environment (you H know as well as I do that there are application and OS issues with largeF SMP tuning like cache thrashing), or the business load all of a sudden" becomes much higher than expected?  E Replace that single production server with a bigger one? Sure, that's.F one option. Course, now you have to replace the backup server (the oneF that is hardly used) as it also needs to be capable of handling larger& loads in the event of a failover etc..  C >> Tuning, some tuning does require a re-boot but a great deal doeso not,<<<a  H As far as your system tuning patching notes - all OS platforms have some? dynamic patching capabilities and some static ones that requireeA rebooting the system. Same goes for OpenVMS. Same for Solaris.=20s  A The advantage clusters provides is that you can do planned systemiD reboots like these with ZERO application availability impact. SimplyH allow current work to complete while directing new work to other systemsH in the cluster. When no work is left on that server, it can be shutdown,C upgraded, replaced with a bigger server, whatever - again with ZERO & impact on application availability.=20  # Re: online hot swap capabilities ..   E Imho, who cares if one can add additional CPU's (you can do this with F OpenVMS / GS Series as well btw) or IO controllers online, if you haveG the capability to add and/or replace entire systems in a cluster online ( with no application availability impact?  H >> if you can do the upgrade while the system is online only requiring aC reboot to run the new image then the bulk of your downtime has beeno avoided.<<<i  C Any planned reboot (no matter how short) causes huge issues i.e. isMF typically very visible and hence needs to be scheduled and approved byC the business groups. These "reboots" are typically planned weeks oro months in advance.  C When combined with previous method of moving users, and dual systemrE disks, Clusters provide the capability to do rolling OS upgrades with F ZERO impact on application availability - do not even need to tell theC end users you are doing it. Application folks of course have tested  their stuff previously.   G Fwiw, the future is to establish infrastructures that allow OperationalvB folks to do what they have to do while providing a seamless alwaysF available application infrastructure to the end users and/or business.  G Again, clusters are not the answer to all requirements and do not solveiH world hunger, but they do offer excellent capabilities for those looking# at large IT Consolidation projects.a   :-)I   Regardsp  
 Kerry Main Senior ConsultantC Hewlett-Packard Canada! Consulting & Integration Servicesn Voice: 613-592-4660t Fax   : 613-591-4477 Email: Kerry.Main@hp.com     -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy 7 [mailto:andrew_nospam.harrison_remove_this@sun#.com]=20p Sent: July 8, 2002 11:02 AMa To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 4 Subject: Re: Only 20% drop in VMS systems (was: wow)         Main, Kerry wrote:  
 > Andrew - >=20 >=20F >>>>The point unless you have missed it is that Custers are a solution >>>>H > to some kinds of problem but not to all, you always trot out a cluster  C > because you cannot do very large SMP systems as you and I know.<<  >=20A > I did not say clusters were a solution to everything now did I?S >=20H > However, when doing IT consolidation, the impact of a single server=20I > going down (proactively or reactively) is obviously much higher than=20 1 > when a company has a number of smaller systems.  >=20G > Hence, IT Consolidation is an excellent example of where clustered=20sF > solutions (including multi-site) should definitely be considered.=20H > Partitioned solutions are also important and most analysts rate server  J > partitioning capabilities as being important considerations for those=20 > looking at IT Consolidation. >=20H > Since you did not answer in your corp-speak response to my original=20 > question, I'll ask again - >=20I > How do you proactively shut that single big SMP box down for planned=20nF > maint or OS / HW upgrades / tuning / whatever with ZERO impact on=20D > application availability ie. no application restarting, no disk=20* > fail-over, no batch jobs restarting etc. >=20    : Well thats of course where the holes in your understanding. of what is and isn't possible start appearing.  6 Why would you need to shut it down, I can remove CPU's9 memory and I/O controllers on any Sun in the F3800-F15000s4 range without any downtime, I can add them and I can: add for example faster CPU's/more memory without downtime.  7 If I think a CPU is going to fail because my monitoring : SW tells me it is, or if I start getting sticky ECC errorsH then I can turn the offending FRU off before it causes a problem, then I* can replace it while the system is online.  0 No application restart, no disk failover no jobs restarting.c  7 OS upgrade you can also do while the system is running, 9 though this does require you to re-boot to initialise theo1 new OS the upgrade process itself is done online.o   Patches, online.  6 Tuning, some tuning does require a re-boot but a great5 deal does not, for example tuning the IP stack is allb5 dynamic, much of the VM tuning is also dynamic and in 3 practice the big tuning knobs are not in the OS butl1 in the Apps themselves, where you are in the same " boat whatever platform you are on.  6 So in practice, you need to re-boot a box once evey 188 months or more to take an OS upgrade, never if you don't: want to to replace HW, upgrade HW etc and very very seldom to do any form of tuning.M  B The trick when designing RAS into a platform is to understand whatG consumes the most downtime and what does not. A reboot does not consume F much time, but an OS upgrade does, if you can do the upgrade while theF system is online only requiring a reboot to run the new image then the' bulk of your downtime has been avoided.u   Regardsl Andrew Harrison.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 16:58:09 GMTl1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)f, Subject: OT: equipment available (possibly!)+ Message-ID: <agcgb1$bbc$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>s  A I realize this is kind of off topic, but I also figure the peopletD here are the ones most likely to be able to make use of this, so....  C As part of a package deal I have come into possesion of some rather-C large pieces of Compaq gear.  I don't see us ever being able to use A it, much less actualy need it and I don't see the boss wanting to E store it as space is premium around here, That means I may be gettingrD rid of it at real bargain prices (especially being as I have no idea what its value might be!)e  C I am sure everyone is on the edge of their seats right now, so herem goes.   / I have two huge boxes labeled "StorageWorks".  1/ One measures 31x35x67 and the other 23.5x35x44.eC I have what I assume are chassis w/power supply that go into these.o+ There are no disks or sleds with these. :-(s  ) I also have a BA350 containing 2 HSJ40's.o  = I also have two of the older style DEC racks labeled SC008-ACt1 each containing a pair of boxes labeled SC008-AB.s  2 And cables and terminators for said boxes galore!!  ? If my boss says, "get rid of it."  is there likely to be anyonei3 interested or should I be contacting a scrap yard??a  2 This stuff was all in use until about a month ago.  * Do people like Island ever buy old stuff??  < Sorry for bothering everybody, but maybe someone elses needs$ will intersect with my good fortune.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:33:08 +0200r' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>e Subject: Re: parsing >255a2 Message-ID: <3D296A64.6010607@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>   Roy Omond wrote: > JOUKJ wrote: >  > ( >>paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: >>P >>>Jouk wrote (in response to Guy Peleg's saying that DCL command limit is being >>>increased): >>>g >>>  >>>gK >>>>Good that will certainly help. But why cannot the command string length>L >>>>not be allocated dynamically upon its need? Probably I will go over thisJ >>>>8192 bytes easily when link complicated programs using many objects inK >>>>many different directories. Now I split up because the 1024 limitation, + >>>>but sometimes I need more than 8 parts.g >>>d >>> O >>>Just a thought, why not use OLBs.  I doubt that you have each object file ino >>>a different directory.a >>>lP >>>This should also speed up linking as an .OLB is only one file to open, versus
 >>>each .OBJ., >>>o >>J >>But you need the double diskspace, because you have to keep both the obj >>and olb on disk. >  > ? > ???  No you don't need to keep both.  The .OLB is sufficient.m >  > .   Not true because Make(MMS) get into trouble:G      if both sources A.c and B.c are updated. than their date is later .  F   than the .OLB Now MMs creates a new A.obj inserts it in the library F deletes A.obj. Since the .OLB is now of a later date than B.c, B.c is E not compiled and inserted in the library. So if you through away the iB .obj's you HAVE to compile all the sources in order to be sure to  include all the changes.                        Joukc   >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:09:53 +0200r2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: parsing >255t; Message-ID: <3d29c761.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>s  ( JOUKJ (joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl) wrote: > Roy Omond wrote: > > JOUKJ wrote:* > >>paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote:J > >>> Just a thought, why not use OLBs.  I doubt that you have each object$ > >>> file in a different directory. > >>>gL > >>> This should also speed up linking as an .OLB is only one file to open, > >>> versus each .OBJ.c > >>I > >> But you need the double diskspace, because you have to keep both theo > >> obj and olb on disk.a > > A > > ???  No you don't need to keep both.  The .OLB is sufficient.e >u0 >   Not true because Make(MMS) get into trouble:I >      if both sources A.c and B.c are updated. than their date is later   >sH >   than the .OLB Now MMs creates a new A.obj inserts it in the library H > deletes A.obj. Since the .OLB is now of a later date than B.c, B.c is G > not compiled and inserted in the library. So if you through away the  D > .obj's you HAVE to compile all the sources in order to be sure to  > include all the changes.  > Not sure whether that works, but using MMS' special OLB syntax you could writea    lib.olb( source.obj ) : source.c
 	$(CC) ... 	$(LIBR) ...  F and MMS should check source.c's date against the date of the library's object module.   cu,n   Martin -- dG                            | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmerO4  UNIX is user friendly.    | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG  It's just selective about |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/l;  who its friends are.      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.der   ------------------------------    Date: 09 Jul 2002 00:42:00 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> Subject: Re: parsing >255r- Message-ID: <87adp2tbmv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>8  ) JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> writes:s  0 >   Not true because Make(MMS) get into trouble:  C > if both sources A.c and B.c are updated. than their date is later E > than the .OLB Now MMs creates a new A.obj inserts it in the librarysD > deletes A.obj. Since the .OLB is now of a later date than B.c, B.cE > is not compiled and inserted in the library. So if you through awayrD > the .obj's you HAVE to compile all the sources in order to be sure > to include all the changes.s  B MMS looks at the module date in the library, your example is not a problem.   -- e< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:08:58 -0400h! From: Jim Agnew <jpagnew@vcu.edu>  Subject: Re: Pascal Editor' Message-ID: <3D298EEA.51237193@vcu.edu>p  F Are you looking for EDT to run on a Pc?  do a www.google.com search on SEDT, or anker sonneG (not sure about spelling of last name) he has an sedt page for windows,h dos, linux, etc.  H the dos sedt runs ok under all windows platforms, including XP, but it's a little flakier under xp..t   jimi   Shiva MahaDeva wrote:e > B > Which Editor can I use im my PC to open Vax Pascal files exactly@ > how I see these files using Edit/EDT files in the VMS system ?B > Id like transfer VAX Pascal files from the VMS system to my PC,. > and vice versa, keeping the Edit/EDT format.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 10:58:42 -0700r* From: ken.randell@fortel.com (Ken Randell)3 Subject: Re: PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB - What's grabbing it?? = Message-ID: <8debc3ff.0207080958.301d2797@posting.google.com>a  B I'm not aware of a way to determine WHO actually has 'grabbed' theE PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB.  Once it's done, and not 'cleanly' released, you mayi' be stuck until you re-boot your system.   E You did not mention the name of the 'performance management' product,nA but if the company that produces it successfully compares with myeE e-mail address, contact me off-line at that e-mail address, and I cantE help you.  Alternatively, contacting support directly at that companymB will also work.  VECINUSE is one of the error messages produced if1 things are not as expected during initialization..   Ken Randellf  m Gerald Marsh <gerald@cyfer.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<ahnbiuka07ia2cl1h1d7ou2jtp94s5sdqu@4ax.com>...eH > We are running a performance management product which supposed to give& > a hotfiles list if we ask it nicely. > G > Unfortunately the module is dying - sometimes with a VECINUSE error -T7 > and reporting that PMS$GL_IOPFMPDB is already in use.i > B > Any ideas on how to find out which process has grabbed it for IOF > performance instrumentation? We run Perfectdisk - which AFAIK cannotF > produce a Hotfiles list - and used to run DecPS but that was removed > over a year ago. > B > EXAMINE in ANAL/SYS around the location doesn't give me anythingE > meaningful but the contents of the longword is definitely non-zero.e > ( > Any help would be gratefully received. >  > Keep the flag flying!t >  > Gerald Marsh >  >  > 1 > gerald -at- cyfer -dot- demon -dot- co -dot- ukn   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:19:46 GMTh5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>i8 Subject: Re: Powerstorm 300/350 cards and OpenGL on OVMS2 Message-ID: <6chW8.18$Fn5.444546@news.cpqcorp.net>  K The RV200 chip (the 7000 series).  Work to port the R300 (8000 series) willdD probably happen following the IPF port of VMS X Windows environment.      @ David Mathog wrote in message <3D231F1E.C244C39D@caltech.edu>... >Paul Repacholi wrote: >>7 >> rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:i >>= >> > In article <3D2088AF.2DCC8B53@caltech.edu>, David Mathogw  >> > <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote: >>? >> > >Have a look at the cards Xi supports on Linux or the manyiA >> > >OpenGL cards supported on Windows. We've been experimentingf? >> > >with a Radeon 8500 using the Xi driver on Linux and it isd= >> > >_incredibly_ fast and the whole system was about $1600.e >>B >> > I believe VMS support for the Radeon 8500 is in the pipeline. >>F >> 8500 or 7500? The 7500 is due to go into Field test from a previous >> post. >rB >Lets hope its the 8500 since the 7500 has pretty much had its run1 >and ATI will probably start phasing it out soon.7 >F	 >Regards,a >c
 >David Mathogc >mathog@caltech.edu    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:03:40 +1000@ From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au>) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalente< Message-ID: <3d2963bc$0$11267$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>  ) let me know if you find out how to do it.r  . I have a file that is a 2.2 million lines long' and I only want the first 11 characters ! from each line, I will have to dot$ this every few days, so I guess that$ dcl is out for me, and I don't speak programming languages ;-(e   antu    2 <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message/ news:01KJTO4LKYN600087V@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au...pI Is there a RTL or system services routine to effect the equivalent of thea
 subject line?t  J I've had a look through help and haven't noticed anything obvious.  I knowG there is the RMS $truncate, but I'd like to avaoid getting my hands tood dirtyo if there is a simpler way.   TIAi   Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:06:51 +0200 9 From: Jan-Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?S=F6derholm?= <aaa@aaa.com>n) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalent ' Message-ID: <3D29643B.65109884@aaa.com>n  3 I think the original poster talked about truncatinga6 "unused" (but allocatied) disk space at the end of the* file, not truncating the individual lines.  < To get the first 11 chars from each line, and you are not in  a hurry, DCL would be just fine.$ It would also be a one-liner in awk.   Jan-Erik Sderholm.c   Antony Wardle wrote: > + > let me know if you find out how to do it.h > 0 > I have a file that is a 2.2 million lines long) > and I only want the first 11 characterso# > from each line, I will have to do & > this every few days, so I guess that& > dcl is out for me, and I don't speak > programming languages ;-(p >  > anti > 4 > <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message1 > news:01KJTO4LKYN600087V@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au...lK > Is there a RTL or system services routine to effect the equivalent of theo > subject line?u > L > I've had a look through help and haven't noticed anything obvious.  I knowI > there is the RMS $truncate, but I'd like to avaoid getting my hands tooo > dirtys > if there is a simpler way. >  > TIAu >  > Regards, Paddy   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:14:46 +0100O From: Roy Omond <Roy@Omond.net>a) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalentt) Message-ID: <3D296616.9CEAEDE8@Omond.net>l   Antony Wardle wrote:  + > let me know if you find out how to do it.  > 0 > I have a file that is a 2.2 million lines long) > and I only want the first 11 characters # > from each line, I will have to do & > this every few days, so I guess that& > dcl is out for me, and I don't speak > programming languages ;-(t  , This is a different problem to the one Paddy0 is trying to solve.  For this sort of thing, the) best tool (IMHO) is Pat Rankin's EXTRACT.j$ Available from Hunter's Fileserv at:  7 ftp://ftp.process.com/vms-freeware/fileserv/extract.zip&  	 Roy OmondS Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:14:48 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalenta+ Message-ID: <agc6on$3lm$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>u   In article <3d2963bc$0$11267$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>, "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nospammmmm.optusnet.com.au> writes: * >let me know if you find out how to do it. >y/ >I have a file that is a 2.2 million lines long ( >and I only want the first 11 characters" >from each line, I will have to do% >this every few days, so I guess thatS% >dcl is out for me, and I don't speak  >programming languages ;-( >     = Get the public domain EXTRACT routine.  From the HELP file :-c   EXTRACTn  
   examples  =       !Display the last 10 lines of Login.Com on the terminal +       $ EXTRACT/TAIL=10 Login.Com /IDENTIFYa  >       !Look at the first few lines of all Fortran source files       $ EXTRACT/HEAD=5 *.For  A       !Copy Test.Txt to Test.Dat, converting text into upper casei$       !  and removing excess blanks.?       $ EXTRACT/EDIT=(UPCASE,COMPRESS) Test.Txt/OUTPUT=Test.Data  C       !Extract all but the first 10 and last 10 records of Test.Dat D       $ EXTRACT Test.Dat/RECORDS=(START=11,END=-11) /OUTPUT=Test.Mid  0       !Get specific columns out of several files>       $ EXTRACT/COLUMNS=(1:10,18:19,25,41:*) Test.*,[...]*.Tmp      Hence you want something like :-  4       $ EXTRACT/COLUMNS=(1:11) Test.dat/out=test.txt       EXTRACT is available fromi< http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?EXTRACT  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >ant >i >o3 ><paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message 0 >news:01KJTO4LKYN600087V@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au...J >Is there a RTL or system services routine to effect the equivalent of the >subject line? >nK >I've had a look through help and haven't noticed anything obvious.  I knowyH >there is the RMS $truncate, but I'd like to avaoid getting my hands too >dirty >if there is a simpler way.t >t >TIA >k >Regards, Paddyn >c >t >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:21:13 -0400i6 From: "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalentg4 Message-ID: <3D299FD9.3040706@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>   Antony Wardle wrote:  E  > I have a file that is a 2.2 million lines long and I only want thenG  > first 11 characters from each line, I will have to do this every fewoI  > days, so I guess that dcl is out for me, and I don't speak programminga  > languages ;-(  7 Please see the documentation on the SORT/MERGE utility.n  : That task should be easily done with a small specification file.t  E A web readable copy of the documentation is available at a link from t http://www.openvms.compaq.como   -Johno! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hpy Personal Opinion Onlyp   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:21:18 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalente+ Message-ID: <agce5u$5vo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>e  m In article <3D299FD9.3040706@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq>, "John.Malmberg" <Malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq> writes:u >Antony Wardle wrote:h >eF > > I have a file that is a 2.2 million lines long and I only want theH > > first 11 characters from each line, I will have to do this every fewJ > > days, so I guess that dcl is out for me, and I don't speak programming > > languages ;-(e >o8 >Please see the documentation on the SORT/MERGE utility. >e; >That task should be easily done with a small specificationt >file. >t  M I considered mentioning that but you have to cheat a bit in order to stop thee5 output being sorted ie specify a nonexistent sort key    using statements such as '  % /field=(name=nonexistant,pos=1,siz=0)h /key=nonexistant  M and although I know the output wont end up sorted I'm not sure whether there eJ would be any detrimental performance impact. Even if there is only a smallN impact in passing each record to a sort routine which then does no sorting itsG probably better to use a program specially written for the task such aso3 EXTRACT when your dealing with 2.2 million records.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:16:25 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> ) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalentc5 Message-ID: <agchdg$kmqvv$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>a  + <david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in messagef% news:agce5u$5vo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk...y >...K > I considered mentioning that but you have to cheat a bit in order to stopc thea7 > output being sorted ie specify a nonexistent sort key  >t > using statements such as > ' > /field=(name=nonexistant,pos=1,siz=0)n > /key=nonexistant >s  J That is why you have a MERGE verb as well as the SORT verb. MERGE will notJ do any sorting. It will tell you if the records are not sorted, but adding' /NOCHECK to the command will stop that.i  6 $ merge infile.txt outfile.txt/spec=sys$input:/nocheck# /field=(name=first11,pos:1,size:11)d
 /data=first11e  E should work fine. It would be interesting to see what the performance3K difference is between this and EXTRACT. If anyone has the time to play give5 it a shot and post the results.@   -- Peter WeaverL Opinions are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of my employer, nor theK company that it sub-contracts to, nor the company that it sub-contracts to.n   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:49:36 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk) Subject: Re: SET FILE/TRUNCATE equivalentm+ Message-ID: <agcjbg$7dg$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk>   e In article <agchdg$kmqvv$1@ID-141708.news.dfncis.de>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:c, ><david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message& >news:agce5u$5vo$1@aquila.mdx.ac.uk... >>...rL >> I considered mentioning that but you have to cheat a bit in order to stop >the8 >> output being sorted ie specify a nonexistent sort key >> >> using statements such asn >>( >> /field=(name=nonexistant,pos=1,siz=0) >> /key=nonexistant> >> > K >That is why you have a MERGE verb as well as the SORT verb. MERGE will notnK >do any sorting. It will tell you if the records are not sorted, but addingt( >/NOCHECK to the command will stop that. >i7 >$ merge infile.txt outfile.txt/spec=sys$input:/nocheckd$ >/field=(name=first11,pos:1,size:11) >/data=first11 >rF >should work fine. It would be interesting to see what the performanceL >difference is between this and EXTRACT. If anyone has the time to play give  >it a shot and post the results.  M Interesting. I'd never come across that use of MERGE before - I've been using - the trick with SORT on small files for years.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:45:16 GMTR( From: Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net>' Subject: Re: SMTP 8bit hack not workingO+ Message-ID: <3D29D00C.7B013345@pacbell.net>    Lawrence Bleau wrote:r > X > In article <3D2338D8.25A5118C@pacbell.net>, Don Sykes <annonymous@pacbell.net> writes:	 > ><snip>oH > >Maybe because the logical meant nothing it was ignored. Stop defining > >TCPIP$SMTP_8BITMIME_HACK.P > >I'm running VMS 7.2 w/ TCPIP 5.1 (no ECOs applied) and just have EIGHTBIT set> > >without any TCPIP$SMTP* logicals defined and it works fine. > G > You know, this makes me think: Perhaps when I applied one of the ECOs G > it disabled (or broke) this feature?  You know, something that shoulduG > make it work without needing the logical name, only they reversed thel= > logic somehow and caused it to never work.  It's a thought.t > C > Wire, would you lay odds that if you applied ECO 4 it would stilla  > work?  Just a thought/insight. > N In my way-too-long career, I've learned not to fight it when things don't workP as advertised. It usually takes much less of my time just to work around the illL effect. Of course you have to note what you've done for a subsequent version# when things DO work as advertised. $  P FYI "Wire Paladin" is not my pseudonym, it is a reference to a 1950's TV westernP (Have Gun, Will Travel) staring Richard Boone. His name was Paladin. His calling
 card read:   Have Gun, Will Travelr Wire Paladin
 San Franciscoy  ? In the 1880's "wiring" someone was equivalent to today's email.:   -- d   Have VMS. Will Travel. Wire Paladin (@alphase.com) 
 San Francisco@   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:11:57 -0700 (PDT). From: Fabio Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br>/ Subject: Re: Suggestion for FAB: virtual memory8@ Message-ID: <20020708141157.64610.qmail@web20208.mail.yahoo.com>   Robert s  3 I disabled the XFC cache ! I am waiting for the ECO 
 release .... e   Regards.   FC p0 --- Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote: > In article >b5 <20020706125046.69392.qmail@web20204.mail.yahoo.com>,e > Fabion+ > Cardoso <fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br> wrote:m > 6 > >I just would like an Autogen which works integrated0 > >to Oracle RDB parameters .... we changed the / > >Global Buffers and researched to change somes5 > >PQL_ parameters to SYSGEN.Was a pain. And why OVMSx > 7.3s6 > >enters wikth XFC allocating 6GB of my 12 GB RAM???? > 5 > I dunno how the cache size is determined -- but you  > do know that you musta3 > disable XFC by setting VCC_FLAGS to 1, right?  It  > isn't safe to use XFCe > until the ECO is released. > 2 > I believe XFC will give up some of its memory if > other stuff needs it.      =====- ========================== Fbio dos Santos Cardoso OpenVMS System Manager Rio de Janeiro - Brazilc fabiopenvms@yahoo.com.br ==========================  2 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?. Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:31:47 +0100n( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1># Subject: Re: Suggestion for VMS FAQr) Message-ID: <3D297823.29B67893@127.0.0.1>    JF Mezei wrote:n >  ... L > For VMS, it would be nice to have a FAQ section that describes the variousI > SYSGEN parameters that dictate the total virtual address space, and theML > relationship between that, the page file sizes, and the pagefile quota for > each process.- > K > As I recall, the guide on performance management seems to deal a lot withlI > process parameters but not as much with the sysgen ones that define thec > virtual address space.  ! Nice idea, but extremely complex.f  A In my experience, the settings vary considerably depending on the H application. It is not even sufficient to just consider memory settings,@ as the timings of those adjustments also has a bearing on memoryF behaviour. The other issue is the complexity of different applicationsG coexisting. In this case it is not as simple as one box one applicationa one behaviour modelt  F In some situations, the recommended rules are best ignored when tryingH to get optimum performance, so "too high" or "too low" can be just right@ depending on the situation. It is a combination of many factors,B including process parameters, and also to some degree tuning for a particular type of workload.  C However, I expect if we started thread like "BORROWLIM and GROWLIM:pD Discuss", we'd end up with a wide range of perfectly valid points of view.   G Only one thing I'm prepared to stick my neck out about, is that AUTOGENPH usually fails to take account of the huge memory sizes (on systems) thatD are now available (IME, 7.2 and below). So we could end up having an3 argument (as this is the right room) about AUTOGEN.l   (Abuse is next door).  --  ? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer SciencesY nclews at csc dot como   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:55:07 +0100f( From: Nic Clews <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1>A Subject: Re: System Disk Initialization Parameter recommendationsM) Message-ID: <3D298BAB.22413BAA@127.0.0.1>    Robert Deininger wrote:  > 5 > In article <3D253D82.DF59082C@127.0.0.1>, Nic Clews:! > <sendspamhere@127.0.0.1> wrote:  >  ...g > >Care to elaborate, please?R >  > A few cent's worth...n >  ...o' > If I had to summarize in a few lines:n3 > 1. large cluster size + small files wastes space. D > 2. small cluster size + large files wastes some time, and with bad( > fragmentation may waste a lot of time. > G > To help reduce fragmentation, I like to set the /EXTENSION to severaluD > times the /CLUSTER_SIZE -- usually 5x or 10x.  This makes "stupid"L > applications that do many extend operation less damaging.  RMS system-wideJ > defaults are also helpful here, but I find per-disk customization better > than system-wide.e  H Your advice is good, typically I go with larger extent sizes. On clusterD sizes, there is a point where diminishing returns for small files on? very large disks, this is where I brought in bound volume sets.>  F I'm more interested in the "physical" performance of being able to useG smaller cluster sizes than the default value and how it impacts the VMSsE file system. There's an article in DSN dated 1990, but ODS-5 wasn't arG twinkle in Engineering's eyes then. I guess the principles hold, but iscE it linear performance, or worse? The article suggests smaller cluster-% sizes means more chance of split IOs.0  F The article also refers a little to the BITMAP.SYS caching, which Paul mentions in his reply...   -- n? Regards, Nic Clews a.k.a. Mr. CP Charges, CSC Computer Sciences  nclews at csc dot comn   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:09:34 GMTn# From: "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> . Subject: Thoughts on HP and VMS (nontechnical)> Message-ID: <2PiW8.188947$0g1.3457479@twister.tampabay.rr.com>  J I had some friends that worked for HP back in the late 70's and early 80s.I When the VAX and VMS came out, they unanimously labeled it as the best OSaI they had ever seen and they wished that HP had done it.  They knew it wasiI coming, but it was announced much sooner than they had anticipated and it J frightened them.  They admitted that their hope was that DEC would fail toG properly position VMS.  For a few years, they looked like they would be-? sorely dissapointed, but in the longer run, they were prophets.0  K I have lost track of these guys, but they were quite bright and were on theTI HP management track.  My hope is that these guys are still there and havehK climbed the corporate ladder.  Even if they are gone, they let me know thatiJ their opinion of VMS was well establislhed at HP.  Much of their sales andJ marketing training at the time consisted of overcoming the VMS advantages.L Now that VMS is theirs, their task will be to overcome their past success at2 denigrating VMS.  I think they can and will do it.  I This is one reason that I am holding a lot of hope that HP will treat VMS H much better than Compaq ever wanted to, and much better than Digital was
 ever able to.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:23:39 GMT 1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com>y2 Subject: Re: Thoughts on HP and VMS (nontechnical). Message-ID: <f0jW8.452867$cQ3.34030@sccrnsc01>  . "John N." <JNixon@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message8 news:2PiW8.188947$0g1.3457479@twister.tampabay.rr.com...L > I had some friends that worked for HP back in the late 70's and early 80s.K > When the VAX and VMS came out, they unanimously labeled it as the best OS K > they had ever seen and they wished that HP had done it.  They knew it was-K > coming, but it was announced much sooner than they had anticipated and itRL > frightened them.  They admitted that their hope was that DEC would fail toI > properly position VMS.  For a few years, they looked like they would benA > sorely dissapointed, but in the longer run, they were prophets.e >oI > I have lost track of these guys, but they were quite bright and were onv thedK > HP management track.  My hope is that these guys are still there and havesH > climbed the corporate ladder.  Even if they are gone, they let me know thatL > their opinion of VMS was well establislhed at HP.  Much of their sales andL > marketing training at the time consisted of overcoming the VMS advantages.K > Now that VMS is theirs, their task will be to overcome their past success- at4 > denigrating VMS.  I think they can and will do it. >+K > This is one reason that I am holding a lot of hope that HP will treat VMSuJ > much better than Compaq ever wanted to, and much better than Digital was > ever able to.8  J This is entirely possible. CPQ was a peecee-centric company, HP was and is& enterprise (and yes, printer) centric.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:16:35 GMT # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg)B Message-ID: <79hW8.48$Raj1.1@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>  < "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message) news:BJXV8.260033$nZ3.118396@rwcrnsc53...n > H > > Some federal departments/agencies buy at least one of everything. SoI > > Intel/HP will announce on Monday that they have sold maybe 5 systems.t >wK > SKHPC subscribers have known for several months that the US Department ofpJ > Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory bought at least 100 times4 > that many systems for one of their supercomputers. >)  . Wow. Commercial success is demonstrated - NOT!   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:35:34 GMTt1 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> 4 Subject: Re: Three HP Press releases (via Bloomberg). Message-ID: <WqhW8.122307$Uu2.23035@sccrnsc03>  . "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote in message< news:79hW8.48$Raj1.1@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com... > > > "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@attbi.com> wrote in message+ > news:BJXV8.260033$nZ3.118396@rwcrnsc53...t > >eJ > > > Some federal departments/agencies buy at least one of everything. SoK > > > Intel/HP will announce on Monday that they have sold maybe 5 systems.. > > J > > SKHPC subscribers have known for several months that the US Department ofL > > Energy's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory bought at least 100 times6 > > that many systems for one of their supercomputers. > >i >e0 > Wow. Commercial success is demonstrated - NOT! >y  K Yeah, we'll have to wait for feedback from Sabre, Alcatel, Schlumberger, et-L al. And for Oracle, SAP, and SAS benchmarks. There is some info in the pressE release and the PPT presentation at www.openvms.org and www.tru64.orgg  H Itanic I was for sure a not quite ready for prime time player; Itanic II appears to be very competitive.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 09:20:58 -0700I' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>, Subject: Re: VMS 64bitness+ Message-ID: <3D29BBEA.820ABB45@caltech.edu>n   Paul Winalski wrote: > G > Doesn't amount to a hill of beans, given that nearly all the EXTERNALd8 > interfaces available to applications are still 32-bit.  E Not to mention the 16 bit limits in RMS and the absolutely RIDICULOUSsG itty bitty limits in parts of DCL (line lengths, variable limits, etc.)i   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 10:51:32 -0500u& From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com>' Subject: Re: Where to put startup stuff.8 Message-ID: <l0djiuc7vmvor6stp3b2iq46m65t1k5c8g@4ax.com>  E I've always made use of all the SY*.com files - though SYSECURITY anddF SYCONFIG are not needed most of the time (well, "always" is since they were made available).s  E It helps to put a write sys$output statement at the beginning and endsA of each of these files (I also include f$time()) so that you know > which procedure is being executed.  Likewise, before I executeB external procedures I use write sys$output to let me know where myA startup is processing... this is very useful if things die in theh2 middle, helps me get right to the problem quicker.  B One thing to note:  Some of the files - e.g., SYLOGICALS.COM - getF executed even during a "minimum" boot.  You need to put logic there toF skip over things you don't want to happen during a minimum boot (e.g.,* mounting all of the system/cluster disks).  , On Sat, 06 Jul 2002 01:10:50 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:c  N >It used to be that a site would put all the startup stuff in SYSTARTUP_V5.COM >eO >So, when you inherited a system, a good study of that file would give a singlebM >point to follow what went on during system boot, including what software was-6 >started up, what logicals were being defined etc etc. >tC >But then came that SYSMAN and its STARTUP phases thing, as well ase1 >SYLOGICALS.COM and probably other files as well.e >dO >Am I being too conservative in sticking to SYSTARTUP_VMS and avoiding the resti >? x >.K >When you inherit a new system, is there a comprehensive list of files (notrO >called by SYSTARTUP_VMS) to look it where the former system manager would have  >added customizations ?s  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqy- (get rid of the xxxz in my address to e-mail)E   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 02 18:50:20 +0200w) From: p_sture@elias.decus.ch (Paul Sture) ' Subject: Re: Where to put startup stuffs) Message-ID: <kG$Jt4wZPKgK@elias.decus.ch>t  a In article <l0djiuc7vmvor6stp3b2iq46m65t1k5c8g@4ax.com>, jlsue <jlsuexxxz@screaminet.com> writes:tG > I've always made use of all the SY*.com files - though SYSECURITY and H > SYCONFIG are not needed most of the time (well, "always" is since they > were made available).e > G > It helps to put a write sys$output statement at the beginning and end,C > of each of these files (I also include f$time()) so that you knowu@ > which procedure is being executed.  Likewise, before I executeD > external procedures I use write sys$output to let me know where myC > startup is processing... this is very useful if things die in thea4 > middle, helps me get right to the problem quicker. > D > One thing to note:  Some of the files - e.g., SYLOGICALS.COM - getH > executed even during a "minimum" boot.  You need to put logic there toH > skip over things you don't want to happen during a minimum boot (e.g.,, > mounting all of the system/cluster disks). > F It is worth noting that the startup calls these procedures with P1 set appropriately.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:28:24 GMT % From: riplips@yahoo.com (Mark Fisher)M! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMS 2 Message-ID: <3d29a160.332922417@enews.newsguy.com>  = Hum, MCI offers FREE LD as well on MUCH better quality lines.l  2 On Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:38:37 -0400, Michael Austin# <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:r   >arturo saavedra wrote:. >> o >> eE >> Couldn't a bankrupt Worldcom be able to spin off MCI as a separaten
 >> profitablen> >> entity and use the proceeds to pay back some of its debts ? > > >The problem is that long distance is in serious trouble these< >days with all of the wireless companies offering "free long< >distance".  This has put a serious dent in their previously >lucrative market. >- >-- 	 >Regards,- > 7 >Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984n8 >First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #2611638 >Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com >                         , >http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html0 >704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:47:39 -0400T1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com> ! Subject: Re: Worldcom MCI and VMSt2 Message-ID: <3D29C22B.98689F11@firstdbasource.com>   Mark Fisher wrote: > ? > Hum, MCI offers FREE LD as well on MUCH better quality lines.  > 4 > On Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:38:37 -0400, Michael Austin% > <maustin@firstdbasource.com> wrote:e >  > >arturo saavedra wrote:g > >> > >>G > >> Couldn't a bankrupt Worldcom be able to spin off MCI as a separates > >> profitable @ > >> entity and use the proceeds to pay back some of its debts ? > > @ > >The problem is that long distance is in serious trouble these> > >days with all of the wireless companies offering "free long> > >distance".  This has put a serious dent in their previously > >lucrative market. > >a > >--o > >Regards,e > > 9 > >Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 1984.: > >First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163: > >Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com > >r. > >http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html2 > >704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile) > >i  D and when you are a LD company and you give away LD for free -- isn'tG that the outcome of what I said? your bottom line is in serious troublen  -therefore "in serious trouble".   --   Regards,  6 Michael Austin            OpenVMS User since June 19847 First DBA Source, Inc.    Registered Linux User #261163:7 Sr. Consultant            http://www.firstdbasource.com@E                           http://www.firstdbasource.com/donation.html / 704-947-1089 (Office)     704-236-4377 (Mobile)    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jul 2002 07:43:44 -0600n- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)2 Subject: Re: wow3 Message-ID: <TRYp85dr791O@eisner.encompasserve.org>o  k In article <38MU8.4781$zGH.532@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:h >  > K > It's far too early to tell. HP has to do a lot beyond filling in the holesM > that Compaq and Digital dug OpenVMS into. Perhaps when VMS market share hasRL > returned to where it was 10-15 years ago can we collectively breath a sigh > of relief.  F    Ten to fifteen years ago, if you had a software based system to do,E    you went and bought a VAX.  I don't think we'll ever see that kindsF    of market share again for VMS, there are just too many applications0    for which UNIX and/or Windows is good enough.  F    But for the owner to move in the opposite direction of the previous6    two owners with respecto marketing does sound good.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2002.373 ************************